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Speaker 1: Welcome to the NFL Legends Podcast, an NFL podcast for

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Speaker 1: the players, by the players. Here is your host, four

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Speaker 1: teen year NFL veteran and Hall of Famer Anius Williams.

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Speaker 1: As we celebrate the NFL's hundreds of season. A series

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Speaker 1: of round tables were conducted around the two thousand and

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Speaker 1: eighteen postseason. Consistent of a staggering array of NFL greats,

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Speaker 1: these round tables talked about the NFL's past glory, its present,

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Speaker 1: stars in its promising future. Let's listen in. I'm sitting

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Speaker 1: here with legends, greatness everywhere all around the table, not

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Speaker 1: just in sports, but as men period. That's what I'm

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Speaker 1: saying right now. I'm sitting next to Ring Louis, I'm

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Speaker 1: sitting next to will And of course I'm saying that

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Speaker 1: to Mike Singletary. I'm sending across from how does that happen? Like?

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Speaker 1: How does that happen? With it? Like take us back

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Speaker 1: to when you when you was doing it then, what

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Speaker 1: was the mentality of a linebacker? Then It's hard to

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Speaker 1: imagine going back fifty one years and thinking about what

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Speaker 1: the NFL did not have, and that was middle linebacker

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Speaker 1: to look like any of us, Lawrence was outside the

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Speaker 1: four of us with middle, they didn't have any. I'm

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Speaker 1: the first one. So then with that being the reality,

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Speaker 1: that could have been opportunities for others, but they just

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Speaker 1: weren't given the opportunity. I was a down defensive lineman

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Speaker 1: when I was in college, so I made the transition

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Speaker 1: from down defensive lineman to linebacker, not just linebacker, but

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Speaker 1: middle linebacker. When I was drafted to player with the Giants,

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Speaker 1: I grew to understand and it was conveyed to me

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Speaker 1: that the middle linebacker position is a thinking man's position,

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Speaker 1: So you have to have the brains, you gotta have

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Speaker 1: the strength and all of that stuff to play the game.

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Speaker 1: But it was reserved primarily for white guys, just like

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Speaker 1: the center position, the quarterback position, the mic linebacker. That's

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Speaker 1: a thinking man's position. So I knew early on that

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Speaker 1: I was going to be challenged and proving that we

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Speaker 1: were smart enough to play the position. Physically, yeah, we

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Speaker 1: could play, but we're we're smart enough to play the position.

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Speaker 1: When I first started playing a position middle school, I

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Speaker 1: started studying on the position. I looked at all the linebackers,

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Speaker 1: Leroy Jordan's, Dick Bucker's, ray Nisky, this gentleman here, I

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Speaker 1: saw him and he was the only one, the only

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Speaker 1: African American middle linebacker. That's the number I'm gonna wear.

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Speaker 1: So I wore sixty three Wood in high school, Wood

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Speaker 1: in middle school. What it tailor. But I was gonna

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Speaker 1: wear it in the NFL, and you know, you would

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Speaker 1: be alignment. So we had a fight about that. But

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Speaker 1: I had to change my number. But that's why I

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Speaker 1: wore the number. Wow. I tell you, I came into

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Speaker 1: the league, and I say, we started to see the

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Speaker 1: change immediately as an outside linebacker. Outside linebackers a little

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Speaker 1: bit easier then because I played the middle linebacker. Physician

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Speaker 1: for the year that you got hurt and you know,

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Speaker 1: and you played very well. Yeah, but I'll tell you what,

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Speaker 1: that's a tough thing. He embraced him on that he

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Speaker 1: took off. It's a very tough physician outside linebacker. I

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Speaker 1: love the freedom you have, you know. And and I

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Speaker 1: was very fortunate that I had a coach, you know,

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Speaker 1: Bill Parselves, that recognized my talent. He was smart enough

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Speaker 1: to he was smart enough. Now he used to get

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Speaker 1: on me every day. Some of these guys gotta get

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Speaker 1: their head out of the grass around here. I tell me,

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Speaker 1: I don't care if you trade me, cut me for

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Speaker 1: somebody else in here, but you got to get the

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Speaker 1: hell off my back and ourselves. From that point on,

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Speaker 1: he just let me do my thing. It was the

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Speaker 1: wrong thing that he did, but he had people who

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Speaker 1: backed them. Oh, hey, as long as it work. Listen,

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Speaker 1: I don't know if I'm going in, if I'm going out,

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Speaker 1: because I don't I know what everybody on the team

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Speaker 1: is doing except for me. I don't know where I

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Speaker 1: posted because I make it up as I go, and

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Speaker 1: Harry would tell me say, listen, hey, go ahead and

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Speaker 1: do your thing. Hey, listen, we got your right behind,

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Speaker 1: we got your bell. It was made it a very

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Speaker 1: good position. He didn't screw up a whole lot. I mean,

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Speaker 1: he might have missed the tackle or something from an

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Speaker 1: elusive running back. You know he handed it missed you.

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Speaker 1: You know you were good. You were good. It's so

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Speaker 1: funny right that this conversation exists right now, right because

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Speaker 1: where we are in and where I was in night,

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Speaker 1: like I was this poor kid with nothing, and there

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Speaker 1: was a blur came across my TV one day and

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Speaker 1: I saw the essence of Mike singletary play football and

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Speaker 1: if I ever changed my life, I like that, go

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Speaker 1: about it. What do you think of the biggest change

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Speaker 1: in the game is today? Oh there's so many changes.

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Speaker 1: I mean they treat a quarterback now. I think it's

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Speaker 1: it's it's it's smart. But it's hard. Man. When you

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Speaker 1: come in full speed and and you you reckless in

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Speaker 1: the banded well, I have to think through was how

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Speaker 1: can I play the game and be healthy on Monday?

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Speaker 1: Because if you had been told that you collapsed and

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Speaker 1: you were out for two hours, and you understand your changes,

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Speaker 1: it changes. Understand you do it, understand you can still

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Speaker 1: do it, and you got knocked out early. I understand that.

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Speaker 1: In the early part of my career, I'm like Superman.

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Speaker 1: I listen, I'm going through every set, you know. And

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Speaker 1: it wasn't until you know, later on in my career

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Speaker 1: when when I got older at the time makes coward.

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Speaker 1: But the guys who are playing now, I don't know

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Speaker 1: if they could have played during our era, especially in

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Speaker 1: the seven daies and eighties, I don't know if they

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Speaker 1: could have played the same yame. I mean yeah, I

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Speaker 1: mean they could have been taught to do certain things.

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Speaker 1: But when I got dressed to go out on the field.

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Speaker 1: I try to wear every path that I could win,

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Speaker 1: because I for every action, there's an equal and opposite reaction.

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Speaker 1: So when you're out there, you're throwing your body around.

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Speaker 1: Bill Parselves used to say, I like black guys from

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Speaker 1: the South because they got big assets and that's where

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Speaker 1: their power is. And that's true. Where your powers? Man?

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Speaker 1: What have we doing off third down? That's all I'm saying.

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Speaker 1: Something happened in my career. There was something that I

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Speaker 1: never forget. It was planning jets and I lost my temper.

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Speaker 1: I lost it because I was really mad that this

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Speaker 1: guy made this call and I lost it. Tell them

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Speaker 1: what you told me on the sideline that day. But

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Speaker 1: first of all, I gotta I gotta tell you the

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Speaker 1: true story. Before I started coaching, and I'm like, who

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Speaker 1: is this young dude? Who this guy talking all the time,

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Speaker 1: talking all this snack the field, the field. You can't

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Speaker 1: hurt this. I'm gonna see this familiar game boy, And

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Speaker 1: here I am. I'm coaching in Baltimore. And if my

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Speaker 1: first day coaching, he comes out after buying Billy could

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Speaker 1: put the ball on the one yard line and he

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Speaker 1: starts churching, he starts talking. Everybody comes alive. And I'm

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Speaker 1: standing back there with tears streaming down my face and

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Speaker 1: I'm saying, this is what it is. This is what

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Speaker 1: you miss about the game. This guy energy force coming

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Speaker 1: at you all the time. So said, great, look, I

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Speaker 1: can't do that. You cannot do that. He's coordinated, your

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Speaker 1: player and your leader. So if you're going off on

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Speaker 1: the sideline, what what are they gonna do? How is

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Speaker 1: it gonna affect him? You don't like it, Let's talk

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Speaker 1: about it later. Call it. Call what he called and

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Speaker 1: let's play ball. We give you a call out there, right,

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Speaker 1: you gotta look at that. That's gonna work? Right? How much?

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Speaker 1: Said okay? How much I have to save the Lawrence?

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Speaker 1: Lawrence to me when when I saw Lawns play, I

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Speaker 1: didn't like Lawrence. Um, is this joker just intimidate people?

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Speaker 1: But hope I get back in kicked up looking at offensive,

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Speaker 1: but don't be scared. Let me go. But that joker

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Speaker 1: when he stood up and you saw him lean like that,

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Speaker 1: oh boy, oh h was one of the most beautiful

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Speaker 1: things that I choose this as if each individual's d

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Speaker 1: n a fit what they did, what Lawrence did. I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't do it didn't fit me, but we did fit us.

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Speaker 1: What you did fit you like you're dead. I mean

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Speaker 1: I tried. Every time I get it wrong. I can't

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Speaker 1: get it right. Just keep the right side, just only

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Speaker 1: the right side. Go. Let let me just say I

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Speaker 1: feel really blessed to have had the opportunity to play

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Speaker 1: with this guy. Because when they were looking to draft someone,

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Speaker 1: was that Lawrence Taylor, linebacker North Carolina. I'm like, no,

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Speaker 1: we need offense. We had a good linebacking corps and

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Speaker 1: they chose Lawrence and we're like, what is he going

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Speaker 1: to do? Oh boy? That first sized him up sort

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Speaker 1: a little legs and everything. His legs ain't no different

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Speaker 1: than mine. But when you put him in for practice,

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Speaker 1: this guy would be making it up like a ballerina.

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Speaker 1: And what you saw it wasn't scripted. I mean it

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Speaker 1: was just stuff that you had never seen before. The

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Speaker 1: moves that he would make and how smoothly he beat

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Speaker 1: the opponent, And we were like, damn, this guy's good.

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Speaker 1: This guy went from like third teen to first teams

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Speaker 1: just like that. Now. I took it, took along it.

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Speaker 1: But you know what, being able to play with him.

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Speaker 1: It just raised the level of competitiveness and everybody. He

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Speaker 1: needed everybody better. But in terms of you, you're like

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Speaker 1: all of us. You fit in very well. I mean you,

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Speaker 1: you span generations. You're one of those guys that guys

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Speaker 1: rally around just because of your enthusiast as in and

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Speaker 1: your zest and love of the game. What's going to

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Speaker 1: kreers for men? I need one thing. One played one

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Speaker 1: moment that you would never forget. New York Jets nineteen,

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Speaker 1: Section nine, the Jets that played in the Prize super

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Speaker 1: Bowl is first and goal at the one. The game

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Speaker 1: is very low scoring. It's going to change on that moment.

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Speaker 1: So what I do is when the offensive linement of

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Speaker 1: down Nameth calls out the first count, if he doesn't

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Speaker 1: go on one, I'm moving on too. I'm moving a

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Speaker 1: step in between the garden center. They still down. I

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Speaker 1: disrupt lifted the whole thing. We were able to hold it.

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Speaker 1: They got three next possession, we get seven, thirteen, six

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Speaker 1: games over. And that's what got us to the ring.

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Speaker 1: That moment, well, the moment that meant the most to me.

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Speaker 1: Mike Singletary and his teammates created it because the Giants

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Speaker 1: played the Bears in and we lost twenty one nothing.

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Speaker 1: And I remember being in that locker room and we

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Speaker 1: were all disappointed, and we thought that we could beat them,

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Speaker 1: but they were better than us. It was a pain

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Speaker 1: that we all felt, so that when we started the

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Speaker 1: nineteen eighties six season, it was an altogether different team.

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Speaker 1: Nobody cared who got the credit, as long as the

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Speaker 1: job got done. That was the catalyst for the Giants

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Speaker 1: winning Super Bowl One. The rest of your life, the

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Speaker 1: rest of your life, man, nobody can ever tell you

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Speaker 1: that you couldn't do it, because you did. After I

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Speaker 1: retired Harry myself, we we had a little disagreement that

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Speaker 1: we we fell out of friendship and we didn't really talk.

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Speaker 1: But when I was inducted into the Hall of Fame, oh,

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Speaker 1: I'll tell you what, We've never had this conversation. I

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Speaker 1: was never critical of him. It was he perceived that,

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Speaker 1: you know, we had something. I loved this man. You know,

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Speaker 1: everybody calls him LT. I called him Lawrence Taylor. I

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Speaker 1: know the man Lawrence Taylor. And that's why whenever went

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Speaker 1: down between us, you know, that was that was LT.

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Speaker 1: Lawrence Taylor. No, we've always been good. I didn't invite him, No,

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Speaker 1: you did, but he he came in and wa, he

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Speaker 1: was there. That's right, that's football friend you could ever have. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And he played a little bit lying or lying. This

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Speaker 1: is incredible. Stole Google's dog. There's something that that each

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Speaker 1: one of us had. If if the next generation was

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Speaker 1: looking for that, what will we tell them this one

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Speaker 1: core thing this group had that you can have to

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Speaker 1: be inquisitive beyond comprehension to try to reach for more

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Speaker 1: than you can ever imagine you had and tried to

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Speaker 1: expand the way in fifty years that they can be

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Speaker 1: sitting here having discussion. I think it's all about having

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Speaker 1: a passion for for doing what you're doing. I enjoyed

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Speaker 1: playing with this guy and all the other guys who

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Speaker 1: I play with, And you know that was one of

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Speaker 1: my reasons for play. Not that I love the game

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Speaker 1: so much, but the guys who I played with, they

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Speaker 1: just elevated me. But also when I look at you

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Speaker 1: guys as black men who played a position that was

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Speaker 1: reserved for non black players. But now we've sort of

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Speaker 1: set the bar for many of those who are playing

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Speaker 1: the game now, and they're playing the game because we

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Speaker 1: played the game, and they want to follow in our

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Speaker 1: fred steps for me, when when I think of players today,

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Speaker 1: what would I tell them? You know, I thought I

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Speaker 1: was a great player when I played. I really thought

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Speaker 1: I was getting hold out until some of the guys

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Speaker 1: that played in front of me started retiring, and all

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Speaker 1: of a sudden, I'm looking around and I'm thinking, you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm not better than ever, but what's going on here?

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Speaker 1: And I realized, if I don't have these guys, somebody

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Speaker 1: to play for, somebody to go out there and express

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Speaker 1: your appreciation for the gameing right, don't ever forget those

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Speaker 1: guys in that room. That's why you play, that's pay. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you play, but you they're looking for a leader, yes,

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Speaker 1: and they're looking for a leader, and you've got a

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Speaker 1: relish the chance to lead. I mean, I like leading. Mike.

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Speaker 1: Let me let me tell you something. When you say

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Speaker 1: I looked into the eyes of those guys when it's

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Speaker 1: the first and goal on the five and you gotta

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Speaker 1: keep people out, my goodness, and you're looking into the

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Speaker 1: eyes of those guys around you and you know that

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Speaker 1: they are on board, that's a powerful thing. That's a powerful,

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Speaker 1: powerful thing because when you're when you're all in sync,

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Speaker 1: and you know, we're in the super Bowl and and

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Speaker 1: always threatening to score, and we're looking at each other

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Speaker 1: and we're like, no, it ain't gonna happen to day.

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Speaker 1: Who's playing now that can carry on the legacy that

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Speaker 1: we've spoken about. The name that jumps out at me

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Speaker 1: is um von Miller, even though even outside backer he

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Speaker 1: played with a reckless abandonment that I really appreciate. He's

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Speaker 1: consistent and to meet us the mark of a great linebacker. Well,

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Speaker 1: I paid a lot of attention to Khalil Mack. You

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Speaker 1: could see how he has an edge Russia. We're able

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Speaker 1: to do the things get under the um and position

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Speaker 1: of the offensive person create the issue in the pocket.

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Speaker 1: And it was just kind of interesting and seeing that

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Speaker 1: utilization of skill and a team willing to do what

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Speaker 1: they had to do to get him because they could

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Speaker 1: make such a difference. And it did because it got

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Speaker 1: him to a playoffs when they had not been And

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Speaker 1: all of that was a part of what happened in Chicago.

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Speaker 1: You know, I might have to call Clio mac too,

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Speaker 1: because I tell you what, he gets out of position.

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Speaker 1: At times he will come inside when he should be outside.

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Speaker 1: That would contain and stuff. But when he goes through,

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Speaker 1: he goes through but thefoce and he's always up in

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Speaker 1: the quarterback face. He's big, he's strong, he's a little cocky.

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Speaker 1: He as the game you can make it out. I

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Speaker 1: have to say, I played with the best, man. How

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Speaker 1: can you how can you compare? How can you compare

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Speaker 1: to the no no no, I had a front row seat.

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Speaker 1: I played with the best. I can't put anybody on

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Speaker 1: this guy's level, and the same can be said about him. Really,

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Speaker 1: I can't put anybody on his level. There are no

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Speaker 1: players like a Mike Singletary. Nobody can be enough of

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Speaker 1: Ray Lewis where I'm raised that I'm like, I'm in

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Speaker 1: the middle. I'm directly in the middle of old school

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Speaker 1: and new school right And because of what I've seen

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Speaker 1: from old school man, I looked for that one dominant

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Speaker 1: force every time I watched sport, and I have not

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Speaker 1: found another LT. I ain't found another mic single tire.

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Speaker 1: I'm an lean on this last question with you because

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Speaker 1: I want somebody to know what it feels like to

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Speaker 1: be an LT of Mike singlet With living there, Eric Cars,

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Speaker 1: I want those kids to dream again on how hard

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Speaker 1: it takes to be that man. A lot of people

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Speaker 1: think they can come do it through talent. Now you

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Speaker 1: guys have me sitting next to Royalty, and I know

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Speaker 1: what it looked like. I've watched the Legends. I watched

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Speaker 1: the Legends, and that's why I want the game. I

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Speaker 1: want this moment to be remembered forever for this one reason.

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Speaker 1: You want to learn how to play the game, lying backer,

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Speaker 1: go back and study Rick Carson, go back and study

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Speaker 1: with at Go back and study the intensity of Mike Singletary,

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Speaker 1: and go back and study I just don't care about

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Speaker 1: nobody mentality LT that's what we're looking for. So listen.

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Speaker 1: Today was absolutely amazing. I think you guys hundred anniversary

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Speaker 1: of the National Football League. But more importantly, this needs

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Speaker 1: to happen without cameras, so I'm honored to be sitting them.

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Speaker 1: It's great who turned every bit of pain. You overcame,

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Speaker 1: and you overcame. Y'all paved the way, and now somebody

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Speaker 1: else has to come behind us and pay for them.

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Speaker 1: I thank you, man, who you are just wonderful. This

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Speaker 1: has been the NFL Legends Podcast. To provide feedback or

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Speaker 1: request a topic for discussion, email us at NFL Legends

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Speaker 1: at nfl dot com. M