WEBVTT - It Could Happen Here Weekly 183 0:00:01.720 --> 0:00:03.120 Also media. 0:00:03.320 --> 0:00:05.760 Hey everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let 0:00:05.800 --> 0:00:09.480 you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode 0:00:09.560 --> 0:00:12.719 of the week that just happened is here in one 0:00:12.800 --> 0:00:16.560 convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to 0:00:16.600 --> 0:00:19.040 listen to in a long stretch if you want. If 0:00:19.079 --> 0:00:21.000 you've been listening to the episodes every day this week, 0:00:21.040 --> 0:00:22.759 there's got to be nothing new here for you, but 0:00:23.160 --> 0:00:24.800 you can make your own decisions. 0:00:27.320 --> 0:00:30.880 Hello, and welcome to itapen here. This may be my 0:00:31.200 --> 0:00:41.360 final episode on Latin American onechism. That is, we've called Peru, Chile, Brazil, Argentina, Paraguay, Uruguay, 0:00:41.440 --> 0:00:44.280 the many countries of Central America, the former countries of 0:00:44.320 --> 0:00:48.199 Grand Colombia, and the Spaanifoon Islands the Caribbean. Now we'll 0:00:48.240 --> 0:00:52.160 finally get into the big one, Mexico. And I say 0:00:52.159 --> 0:00:54.600 we because I'm here with Garrison Davis. 0:00:54.640 --> 0:00:57.280 Hello, is this has been it's got to be like 0:00:57.280 --> 0:00:59.120 a year long series now right. 0:00:59.440 --> 0:01:01.600 At this point, and yeah, it's going to go around 0:01:01.600 --> 0:01:04.160 for some time with breaks in between and everything. 0:01:04.400 --> 0:01:05.959 I'm very very excited. 0:01:06.280 --> 0:01:09.679 Yeah, to introduce myself real quick, I'm Andrew Sage. You 0:01:09.720 --> 0:01:12.800 can find me on YouTube, but androism and we should 0:01:12.800 --> 0:01:14.800 have check out the show notes for all the references, 0:01:15.000 --> 0:01:19.160 including a health capalities anarchism in Latin America, which was 0:01:19.200 --> 0:01:23.880 an indispensable resource for the entirety of this project. Without 0:01:23.880 --> 0:01:28.560 further Ado faminos, we have a lot to cover. Mexico 0:01:28.760 --> 0:01:31.600 is a massive and storied country, so I can only 0:01:31.640 --> 0:01:34.120 really give you a gist of its pre colonial and 0:01:34.160 --> 0:01:38.080 colonial history. For the necessary context, we have to start 0:01:38.240 --> 0:01:42.360 thousands of years before the name Mexico or Mexico even existed. 0:01:42.480 --> 0:01:46.200 Of course, according to the Encyclopedia Britannica, the land we 0:01:46.280 --> 0:01:48.240 now call Mexico is home to some of the world's 0:01:48.240 --> 0:01:52.800 most unique ancient civilizations whose came the Olmechs, often called 0:01:52.840 --> 0:01:56.120 the mother culture of meso America, known for their colossal 0:01:56.160 --> 0:02:01.720 stoneheads and influence on later cultures there with their dazzlin cities, 0:02:01.760 --> 0:02:05.320 mathematics and calendars, and eventually the Aztecs, who built the 0:02:05.360 --> 0:02:10.160 Grand Empire, settled onto nor Stitland, which is now Mexico City. Unfortunately, 0:02:10.200 --> 0:02:13.240 we can't spend much time on this rich history. We 0:02:13.360 --> 0:02:17.680 must progress to the time of European contact. In fifteen nineteen, 0:02:18.080 --> 0:02:22.800 everything changed. Spanish Conquistra and nan Cortez arrived, and within 0:02:23.040 --> 0:02:27.720 just two years the mighty Aztec Empire fell disease. Alliances 0:02:27.720 --> 0:02:31.720 with native enemies of the Aztecs, technological advantages and brutal 0:02:31.800 --> 0:02:36.960 warfare aided the Spaniards overthrowing a civilization of millions. What 0:02:37.040 --> 0:02:40.480 followed was three centuries of colonial rule under New Spain, 0:02:41.040 --> 0:02:45.760 marked by extraction, Catholic conversion, and the mixing, often violently, 0:02:46.080 --> 0:02:50.840 of indigenous European and African peoples. By the early eighteen hundreds, 0:02:50.960 --> 0:02:54.640 the winds of independence were finally blowing. A Catholic priest 0:02:54.720 --> 0:02:57.600 named Miguel Hidalgo sparked the fight with a cry for 0:02:57.680 --> 0:03:01.560 freedom in eighteen ten. Specifically, he sought the end of 0:03:01.680 --> 0:03:05.240 rule by Spanish peninsulars, which are the people who came 0:03:05.280 --> 0:03:08.880 from Spain and ruled over Mexico. He called for the 0:03:08.919 --> 0:03:13.079 equality of races, and he called for the redistribution of land. 0:03:13.760 --> 0:03:16.720 As a hill capbility put it in anarchism in Latin miracle, 0:03:17.240 --> 0:03:20.960 hid Illgo proposed to abolish, even if by gentle and 0:03:21.040 --> 0:03:24.560 gradual means, what he called, in almost Prudonian terms, the 0:03:24.600 --> 0:03:30.680 horrible right of territorial property, perpetual hereditary and exclusive. This 0:03:30.760 --> 0:03:33.119 whole land topic is going to come up a lot 0:03:33.200 --> 0:03:34.920 in the history. By the way, you may be familiar 0:03:34.920 --> 0:03:39.040 with the phrase land and freedom, the aira liberdad that 0:03:39.160 --> 0:03:43.200 comes from Mexico. Anyway. It took more than a decade 0:03:43.240 --> 0:03:46.400 of war, but by eighteen twenty one Mexico had finally 0:03:46.400 --> 0:03:51.600 broken free from Spain. Freedom, though didn't mean stability. The 0:03:51.680 --> 0:03:54.720 nineteenth century saw emperors come and go, because there was 0:03:54.720 --> 0:03:57.960 actually a time when Mexico as a monarchy, Foreign invasions 0:03:58.000 --> 0:04:01.040 by the United States via the Manifest Destiny and Napoleon's 0:04:01.040 --> 0:04:06.600 France via monarchical Latin League, and internal power struggles. The 0:04:06.680 --> 0:04:10.520 Zapatec president Benito Juarez, who from eighteen sixty four to 0:04:10.560 --> 0:04:14.240 eighteen sixty seven had resisted foreign occupation by Napoleon's emperor 0:04:14.280 --> 0:04:19.440 Maximilian and fought for constitutional reform, sought to stabilize, secularize, 0:04:19.560 --> 0:04:23.960 and modernize the country. In the mid eighteen hundreds, figures 0:04:24.040 --> 0:04:28.880 like Quarez led a sweeping movement against the old powers 0:04:28.920 --> 0:04:32.520 of Mexico, the Catholic Church and the military, which had 0:04:32.520 --> 0:04:37.080 long dominated both land and politics. To the layers de reformer. 0:04:37.560 --> 0:04:41.960 They seized church property, secularized education and promised a new 0:04:42.000 --> 0:04:45.880 era of rights and equality. But there was a catch, 0:04:46.040 --> 0:04:49.600 because to weaken the Church, the liberals sold off its land, 0:04:49.760 --> 0:04:52.280 not to the peasants or indigenous communities who had worked 0:04:52.279 --> 0:04:56.120 on it for generations, but to wealthy buyers, the heroes. 0:04:56.640 --> 0:05:00.839 The communal lands of indigenous peoples were privatized under this 0:05:01.160 --> 0:05:05.279 liberal banner freedom and progress. They created a new class 0:05:05.320 --> 0:05:10.160 of landlords and pushed rural people deeper into poverty. Benito 0:05:10.200 --> 0:05:13.440 Juarez died, but his legacy lived on with those reforms 0:05:13.480 --> 0:05:16.320 to cement the separation of church and state, freedom of religion, 0:05:16.360 --> 0:05:19.600 the prohibition of forced labor, and so on. But following 0:05:19.680 --> 0:05:24.120 him came the Portfyriato, a thirty year long dictatorship under 0:05:24.160 --> 0:05:28.040 the mixed tech president Porfyrio Dias, who continued the modernization 0:05:28.080 --> 0:05:31.400 of the country but also deepened its long standing inequalities. 0:05:32.080 --> 0:05:36.279 Portforio Dias surrounded himself with intellectuals known as the scientificos 0:05:37.040 --> 0:05:40.320 They were positivists, as in adherents of the positivist school 0:05:40.360 --> 0:05:44.599 of philosophy, which advocated for rational planning and economic development 0:05:44.680 --> 0:05:49.359 as a path of social progress. His slogan was ban Opalo, 0:05:49.960 --> 0:05:53.400 the bread or the stick, and reflected the policy of 0:05:53.480 --> 0:05:58.320 rewarding compliance with prosperity while punishing dissent with severe consequences. 0:05:59.320 --> 0:06:05.200 The liberty order and progress equation sacrificed liberty as the 0:06:05.240 --> 0:06:08.279 Mexican people were expected to trade freedom for the benefits 0:06:08.279 --> 0:06:13.160 of these policies. Workers ended up facings low wages, long hours, 0:06:13.200 --> 0:06:16.760 and of course lacked rights, while estate laborers were landless 0:06:16.839 --> 0:06:21.320 and under the arbitrary rule of Mayo demos, education was 0:06:21.440 --> 0:06:25.080 largely restricted to elites. In major cities, groups like the 0:06:25.160 --> 0:06:30.240 Yaqi Indians were forcibly relocated as cheap labor to plantations. Governors, 0:06:30.279 --> 0:06:35.400 those supposedly elected, were effectively presidential appointees, monitored by Hipe's 0:06:35.400 --> 0:06:39.839 politicals who intervened the local affairs. The roulatis and elite 0:06:39.920 --> 0:06:44.840 constabulary maintained order but often disregarded due process, which fostered 0:06:44.839 --> 0:06:48.320 a whole reign of terror in the rural areas. Diaz's 0:06:48.360 --> 0:06:52.400 popularity eventually waned as prosperity was monopolized by a small, 0:06:52.680 --> 0:06:57.840 often foreign elite. This elite emulated European customs, which created 0:06:57.839 --> 0:07:01.400 a stark divide with the growing protis and middle classes. 0:07:02.560 --> 0:07:05.760 By the second half of the nineteenth century, Mexico was 0:07:05.800 --> 0:07:09.680 caught in a contradiction a state that promised emancipation through 0:07:09.720 --> 0:07:13.000 property rights, while this possessing the very people it claimed 0:07:13.040 --> 0:07:25.960 to free. The liberal project had failed them, and in 0:07:25.960 --> 0:07:30.160 its failure space opened for deeper critiques of property power 0:07:30.280 --> 0:07:35.120 and the state itself. A younger generation began questioning the system, 0:07:35.320 --> 0:07:39.000 and with this rise in criticism came rising repression, which 0:07:39.000 --> 0:07:42.640 set the stage for the Mexican Revolution of nineteen ten. 0:07:43.400 --> 0:07:46.480 This whole era of like the turn of the millennia 0:07:47.040 --> 0:07:49.120 and the start of the twentieth century has like so 0:07:49.280 --> 0:07:51.640 much of this same stuff happening all over the world. 0:07:51.680 --> 0:07:53.920 Like that's kind of one of the biggest trends that 0:07:54.080 --> 0:07:57.440 we've been able to see throughout your Latin American anarchism 0:07:57.480 --> 0:08:01.000 series is like how how much they all mirror each other, 0:08:01.080 --> 0:08:04.200 and like how much of like a global movements used 0:08:04.200 --> 0:08:08.040 to exist, like not like an organized fashion, but like 0:08:08.360 --> 0:08:11.840 there's like some like other force that is that is 0:08:11.880 --> 0:08:16.480 like a driving these like global trends of like revoltant revolution. Yeah, 0:08:16.520 --> 0:08:18.640 and like we see this a lot in like the yeah, 0:08:18.680 --> 0:08:21.920 like the nineteen ten to nineteen twenty time period. I 0:08:21.920 --> 0:08:23.880 mean even just in Latin America. 0:08:24.960 --> 0:08:28.360 Absolutely. I also think, of course, it's really easy to 0:08:29.320 --> 0:08:33.040 notice these trends and notice these tides of history and retrospect. 0:08:33.480 --> 0:08:35.480 You know, when you submerged in it, it's just like, 0:08:35.920 --> 0:08:38.160 you know, all these conversations and stuff happening, for sure, 0:08:38.160 --> 0:08:41.240 all these events and stuff happening around you. But when 0:08:41.240 --> 0:08:43.040 you by looking in the past, you could say, oh wow, 0:08:43.080 --> 0:08:45.800 this is like a global pattern, you know. So I'm 0:08:45.840 --> 0:08:49.560 always curious to see like when we look back, I mean, 0:08:49.600 --> 0:08:52.680 the twenty ten is already over. The narratives around it 0:08:52.679 --> 0:08:55.240 are still formulated, right, We're still in the midst of 0:08:55.240 --> 0:08:59.160 the nineteen twenty in the nineteen twenties, the twenty twenties, say, 0:08:59.160 --> 0:09:02.319 you know, the nowseron it will still be development all now. 0:09:03.000 --> 0:09:05.120 But we're already halfway through, and I'm sure people have 0:09:05.120 --> 0:09:07.280 already seen suitent trends that are going to make for 0:09:07.360 --> 0:09:10.280 some excellent retrospective commentary. 0:09:10.440 --> 0:09:13.240 Definitely. Yeah, Like the past ten years we've seen this 0:09:13.320 --> 0:09:17.120 like global far right power grab and this like rebirth 0:09:17.120 --> 0:09:21.599 of right wing populism sweeping a whole bunch of neoliberal democracies, 0:09:21.679 --> 0:09:25.240 like like post nineties, post War on Terror, post end 0:09:25.240 --> 0:09:27.440 of history stuff where you see like the full extent 0:09:27.520 --> 0:09:32.360 of like the Clinton, Reagan Thatcher economics completely completely crumble 0:09:32.880 --> 0:09:36.120 with far right populism like taking taking over the reins 0:09:36.120 --> 0:09:40.080 of most popular consciousness. Yeah, to the point where even 0:09:40.120 --> 0:09:43.240 like the more like liberal parties are being quote unquote 0:09:43.320 --> 0:09:47.000 forced to adopt like similar rhetoric looking at like like 0:09:47.000 --> 0:09:50.520 like the Labor Party in the UK and hearing the States, 0:09:50.559 --> 0:09:53.240 how how much like the Democratic Party last year like 0:09:53.320 --> 0:09:56.720 completely caved on like far right populist talking points on 0:09:57.240 --> 0:09:58.280 immigration and stuff. 0:09:58.840 --> 0:10:01.520 Exactly. I think part of it as well is a 0:10:01.520 --> 0:10:06.280 failure to advance a positive, totally direction and a positive program. 0:10:06.600 --> 0:10:06.880 Yeah. 0:10:07.040 --> 0:10:12.160 You know, when we allow the tunes of discourse, the 0:10:12.200 --> 0:10:15.200 arena of discussion, to be dictated by the right, when 0:10:15.200 --> 0:10:17.599 we simply react to what they are saying, when we 0:10:17.720 --> 0:10:21.640 simply respond to their policies and their efforts, you know, 0:10:21.679 --> 0:10:25.840 we may slow down the progress of their goals, but ultimately, 0:10:25.880 --> 0:10:28.480 as long as we are engaged in dialogue with their goals, 0:10:28.480 --> 0:10:31.440 they are storely inching their goals closer and closer to reality. 0:10:32.559 --> 0:10:32.839 Yeah. 0:10:32.920 --> 0:10:35.480 Yeah, that is certainly the trend that that I've been 0:10:35.520 --> 0:10:37.760 seeing the past ten years and I'm sure sure many 0:10:37.800 --> 0:10:38.200 people have. 0:10:38.520 --> 0:10:41.439 Yeah, I mean, the overturn windows pretty much entirely dictated 0:10:41.520 --> 0:10:44.480 by what they decide, you know. I think I've mentioned 0:10:44.520 --> 0:10:47.320 this before. The right to decided they wanted to talk 0:10:47.320 --> 0:10:50.040 about critical race theory, and then critical race theory became 0:10:50.120 --> 0:10:52.920 the center of conversation. The right decided they wanted it 0:10:52.960 --> 0:10:53.840 to target. 0:10:54.360 --> 0:10:57.360 DEI gender ideology. 0:10:57.040 --> 0:10:59.640 Right, Yeah, and then that becomes the whole thing, is 0:10:59.679 --> 0:11:02.600 that the center discussion. They are not putting forward the 0:11:02.720 --> 0:11:07.040 policies that are going to hoot pretty much everybody as 0:11:07.080 --> 0:11:08.640 the center of their policy. That's more like an a 0:11:08.760 --> 0:11:12.559 side when they give themselves, you know, salary raises and 0:11:12.600 --> 0:11:15.040 they cut taxes on the ridge. That's not the center 0:11:15.080 --> 0:11:18.040 of their political message. Center the polical messages, you know, 0:11:18.200 --> 0:11:22.360 various culture related issues that they can use s rority 0:11:22.360 --> 0:11:28.560 their base, but it's nothing that's actually benefiting people, you know. 0:11:28.600 --> 0:11:32.480 And instead of circumventing that, that effort to dictate the 0:11:32.520 --> 0:11:36.240 course of conversation, dictate our own conversations instead of what 0:11:36.280 --> 0:11:40.160 it's kind of following along the tail. But that's a 0:11:40.160 --> 0:11:44.360 bit outside the scope of of this a bit of 0:11:44.000 --> 0:11:46.920 a digression here. But before we get to the point 0:11:46.960 --> 0:11:49.800 of the Mexican Revolution, though, we should really take a 0:11:49.800 --> 0:11:52.880 look at the slow and steady development of radical ideas 0:11:53.120 --> 0:11:57.280 in Mexico during the nineteenth century. You see indigenous resistance 0:11:57.480 --> 0:12:02.240 persisted throughout Mexico's history through often quiet, revolved acts of 0:12:02.360 --> 0:12:05.400 non cooperation that would steadily ensure that Spain could never 0:12:05.480 --> 0:12:09.959 fully establish his dominion. Even after independence, the culdnal structure 0:12:10.000 --> 0:12:12.080 lived on in the hasciendas, the church, and the state, 0:12:12.400 --> 0:12:15.720 so the indigenous communities would continue to resist, sometimes in 0:12:15.840 --> 0:12:20.640 profoundly anti authoritarian ways by the nineteenth century. And this 0:12:20.840 --> 0:12:23.880 history is courtesy and hill capialtes anarchism in Latin America. 0:12:24.000 --> 0:12:27.319 As I mentioned in eighteen sixty one, a man arrived 0:12:27.320 --> 0:12:31.880 in Mexico with a very distinct name. He was Platino 0:12:32.160 --> 0:12:37.240 Constantino Rorocanati. He was a Greek immigrant radicalized by the 0:12:37.240 --> 0:12:40.400 revolutions in Europe and steeped in the works of Furia, 0:12:40.520 --> 0:12:43.720 who was a utopian socialist, and Prudon, who was an 0:12:43.760 --> 0:12:47.960 anarchist fust anarchist. He had fled the counter revolutionary tide 0:12:48.040 --> 0:12:52.960 crashing over the continent with a mission. Roccanati believed Mexico, 0:12:53.080 --> 0:12:56.920 with its long standing indigenous traditions of communal landholding and 0:12:57.000 --> 0:13:00.000 mutual aid was the perfect police to plant the seeds 0:13:00.040 --> 0:13:03.080 of a new utopian society. And in a lot of 0:13:03.080 --> 0:13:05.480 ways he was right, you know. He saw in the 0:13:05.480 --> 0:13:09.000 a Hero system, the indigenous Kuna Lantennire a living echo 0:13:09.080 --> 0:13:11.680 of the kind of society Utopians in Europe could only 0:13:11.760 --> 0:13:16.680 dream of. Where the liberally saw backwardness, Rota Kanati saw potential. 0:13:17.400 --> 0:13:20.280 His aim wasn't to civilize these communities, but to learn 0:13:20.320 --> 0:13:23.160 from them and help them protect their autoroity from the 0:13:23.200 --> 0:13:28.280 encroaging state through political philosophy and practice. He seemed to 0:13:28.280 --> 0:13:30.559 be a very interesting fellow by the way. I mean, 0:13:30.600 --> 0:13:35.440 he apparently spoke seven languages. He practiced medicine by day 0:13:35.520 --> 0:13:38.920 and philosophy by night. He was a Christian, but not 0:13:39.000 --> 0:13:42.360 anything like the Christians that dominated Mexico at the time, because, 0:13:42.440 --> 0:13:45.520 as anhil Capelt he puts it for him, the essence 0:13:45.559 --> 0:13:48.719 of Christianity is charity, that is love for all, as 0:13:48.720 --> 0:13:51.320 it is taught in the Gospels, and that essence is 0:13:51.320 --> 0:13:55.679 the moral foundation of socialism and revolution as well. Pure Christianity, 0:13:55.760 --> 0:13:58.079 he wrote, is the religion that will regenerate the world 0:13:58.360 --> 0:14:00.520 when people finally come to understand the power of its 0:14:00.520 --> 0:14:05.079 basic principles liberty, equality and fraternity. But it is Christianity 0:14:05.120 --> 0:14:09.520 without dogma like Saint Simon's, and without priesthood, liturgy or 0:14:09.600 --> 0:14:12.520 hierarchical organization, the model for which he finds in the 0:14:12.520 --> 0:14:16.120 life of Jesus and his earliest followers. Primitive Christianity is 0:14:16.160 --> 0:14:19.360 authentic Christianity, but has been entirely degraded by the Catholic 0:14:19.360 --> 0:14:21.840 and Protestant churches, and has nothing to do with so 0:14:21.920 --> 0:14:26.200 many sexs that call themselves Christian end quote. A few 0:14:26.200 --> 0:14:28.920 months after his arrival in eighteen sixty one, he published 0:14:28.960 --> 0:14:31.840 a socialist primary in Mexico that marked him as the 0:14:31.920 --> 0:14:36.240 first anarchist to put forward distinctly anarchist theory in the country. 0:14:36.760 --> 0:14:39.120 In the mid eighteen sixties, he formed a group called 0:14:39.160 --> 0:14:42.280 Lass Social the goal of spreading the ideas of mutualism, 0:14:42.640 --> 0:14:47.360 free association, anti capitalist cooperation through books, pamphlets, and education. 0:14:48.040 --> 0:14:52.080 Barukannati and his collaborators launched workers schools aimed the promoting literacy, 0:14:52.280 --> 0:14:56.200 political consciousness, and autonomy. Once at school was the Esquila 0:14:56.440 --> 0:15:02.200 de Rao idel Socialismo, the School of Lightning and socialism hell. 0:15:02.240 --> 0:15:06.880 Yet it combined moral instruction with a deep critique of 0:15:06.960 --> 0:15:11.080 the exploitative labor system. This was, you know, education as 0:15:11.080 --> 0:15:13.280 a rebellion, not just to read, but to recognize the 0:15:13.400 --> 0:15:18.560 exploitation and to imagine alternatives. Rudicnati thought of his socialism 0:15:18.600 --> 0:15:22.120 as the fullest expression of the French revolutionary motto of liberty, 0:15:22.200 --> 0:15:26.400 equality and fraternity, which no half measure like liberalism could 0:15:26.440 --> 0:15:30.360 ever reach. He recognized that the immediate objective must be quote, 0:15:30.480 --> 0:15:34.760 the extinction of poverty, the distribution and increase to the commonwealth, 0:15:35.000 --> 0:15:38.840 the abolition of prostitution, and the conservation of all our faculties, 0:15:39.120 --> 0:15:42.840 including the intellectual, physical, and moral ones, for the transformation 0:15:42.960 --> 0:15:47.320 of humanity through science, beauty and virtue end quote. One 0:15:47.360 --> 0:15:49.800 of those things was not like the others. I'm surely noticed. 0:15:51.000 --> 0:15:54.880 There was a standout inclusion there, but it makes sense 0:15:54.920 --> 0:15:59.000 considering his background. He also saw himself as a cosmopolitan, 0:15:59.320 --> 0:16:03.080 perhaps owing in part his unique circumstances as a man 0:16:03.120 --> 0:16:06.480 with a Greek father, Austrian mother, a French education, and 0:16:06.560 --> 0:16:10.360 Mexican who he said, quote, we are Cosmopolitans by nature, 0:16:10.800 --> 0:16:14.240 citizens of all nations, and contemporaries to all the Asias, 0:16:14.800 --> 0:16:18.480 the greatest and most heroic human actions belong equally to 0:16:18.560 --> 0:16:23.000 all end quote. In other words, our country is the 0:16:23.160 --> 0:16:27.440 entire world, and all men are brothers. He also wrote 0:16:27.560 --> 0:16:30.160 that the abolition of all governments in the nations, which 0:16:30.200 --> 0:16:33.280 frightens you and you consider impossible and absurd they have 0:16:33.360 --> 0:16:36.160 ever tried it, will usher in a totally new world 0:16:36.200 --> 0:16:38.760 of institutions, in which the peoples of the world will 0:16:38.800 --> 0:16:53.160 live in happiness end quote. Brouclati was a pacifist and 0:16:53.240 --> 0:16:57.000 his approached anarchism, which owed his original introduction of socialism 0:16:57.080 --> 0:16:59.920 being via Charles Furia, but eventually he came to the 0:17:00.080 --> 0:17:03.280 stand the need for a class struggle, as he said, quote, 0:17:03.440 --> 0:17:06.359 a social revolution in which many heroic victims will be 0:17:06.400 --> 0:17:09.560 sacrificed in the sacred altar to restore the justice denied 0:17:09.600 --> 0:17:14.399 it to the people end quote. His work attracted young radicals, 0:17:14.440 --> 0:17:16.760 many of whom would later play key roles in the 0:17:16.800 --> 0:17:20.800 development of Mexico's labor movement. Before he started Laso Ciel, 0:17:21.160 --> 0:17:25.440 he'd initiated the first Grupo Destudiante Socialistas, from which came 0:17:25.480 --> 0:17:28.720 figures such as Santiago Villanueva, who tried to organize the 0:17:28.720 --> 0:17:34.280 worker's movement Permeneghuillo, Filla, Vicinzio, and Francisco's Alacosta, a leader 0:17:34.359 --> 0:17:37.320 of rural masses. It's the core of this group that 0:17:37.359 --> 0:17:40.520 would help him to create Lasocil, which would educate and agitate, 0:17:40.520 --> 0:17:43.320 but also assist workers beyond mutual aid to an active 0:17:43.400 --> 0:17:47.440 class struggle posture in defense of the interests against bosses. 0:17:48.160 --> 0:17:51.560 So basically, he took these mutual aid societies and made 0:17:51.560 --> 0:17:54.520 sure that they didn't stay mutual aid societies, that they 0:17:54.560 --> 0:17:59.120 were radicalized into resistance societies. Because those sort of mutual 0:17:59.119 --> 0:18:02.080 aid associations were very common in Latin America at the time. 0:18:02.440 --> 0:18:04.560 You know, workers would create these little groups where they 0:18:04.560 --> 0:18:06.880 would try and support each other. But it's very easy 0:18:06.880 --> 0:18:08.679 to fall back on that and to assume, you know, 0:18:09.160 --> 0:18:11.480 that's all you have to do. Making sure that they 0:18:11.520 --> 0:18:14.960 have a radical posture, a revolutionary posture. It's important to 0:18:15.040 --> 0:18:17.919 ensure that they're not just rest in your laurels and 0:18:18.240 --> 0:18:21.760 expecting change to come to you, and indeed, they did 0:18:21.840 --> 0:18:25.040 not expect the change to come to them. In June 0:18:25.080 --> 0:18:29.359 eighteen sixty five, these resistant societies supported the first industrial 0:18:29.440 --> 0:18:33.400 strike in Mexico. Unfortunately, it was crushed by the leader 0:18:33.440 --> 0:18:36.679 of the country at the time, Emperor Maximilian, but it 0:18:36.720 --> 0:18:39.320 was his occupation and the economic harshness of it all 0:18:39.359 --> 0:18:43.240 that fermented the spread of anarchist ideas. Another stud on 0:18:43.280 --> 0:18:47.000 Talt of Rocannati school came Julio Chavez, a precursor to 0:18:47.040 --> 0:18:51.280 the more famous Emiliano Zapata and a fervent anarchist communist. 0:18:52.040 --> 0:18:55.880 He agitated for a peasant rebellion and engage in land expropriations, 0:18:56.200 --> 0:18:59.000 which grew in popularity wherever he was active, from the 0:18:59.080 --> 0:19:01.960 Cholco texokore John where he began to all the states 0:19:01.960 --> 0:19:06.320 of Quibbler and Morella as Coupleleetti recounts quote. The federal 0:19:06.440 --> 0:19:09.560 army finally moved against him and defeated and imprisoned. He 0:19:09.640 --> 0:19:12.560 was executed in eighteen sixty nine by order of President 0:19:12.600 --> 0:19:17.440 Benito Juarez. Before he died, Chavez cried out, long Live 0:19:17.680 --> 0:19:22.000 Socialism end quote. His manifesto, which was written a few 0:19:22.000 --> 0:19:24.800 months before he died, would help introduce more masses in 0:19:24.840 --> 0:19:27.720 the Mexican movement to the idea of class drugl and 0:19:27.880 --> 0:19:30.280 like a light bulb over one's head, it immediately it 0:19:30.320 --> 0:19:33.879 clear who was responsible for their suffering. Santiago vil and 0:19:33.920 --> 0:19:36.880 Weaver and a fellow student to Rocanati named Villa Vicenzio 0:19:37.359 --> 0:19:41.320 worked arduously to organize the artisans and workers in Mexico City, 0:19:42.000 --> 0:19:45.639 and they definitely had the cards stacked against them, but 0:19:45.760 --> 0:19:48.080 they helped to organize an industrial strike in a textile 0:19:48.080 --> 0:19:50.640 mill in eighteen sixty eight, and in eighteen sixty nine 0:19:50.680 --> 0:19:54.000 they established a Circulo Peraltario, and in eighteen seventy the 0:19:54.040 --> 0:19:57.320 Grand Seculio de Obreros de Mexico and in eighteen seventy 0:19:57.320 --> 0:20:00.800 one the newspaper Al Socialista. This is when the red 0:20:00.800 --> 0:20:04.119 and black so famously associated with anarchism came into the 0:20:04.160 --> 0:20:08.440 Mexican workers' movement. The eighteen seventies saw struggles between radical 0:20:08.480 --> 0:20:12.360 and moderate factions among workers, proletarian presses making a name 0:20:12.400 --> 0:20:15.280 for themselves, and the first convention of the General Workers 0:20:15.280 --> 0:20:17.960 Congress of the Mexican Republic in eighteen seventy six with 0:20:18.000 --> 0:20:21.680 a manifesto that indicated the crown influence of libertarian ideology 0:20:21.920 --> 0:20:24.720 in Mexico. Of course, there was a tension in that 0:20:24.760 --> 0:20:30.360 Congress between the socialists and the anarchists, but water is wet. Sadly, 0:20:30.680 --> 0:20:36.080 Mexico wasn't ready for revolution, or rather the ruling class wasn't. 0:20:36.560 --> 0:20:40.280 While Roadcinnati and others sold seeds among students and workers, 0:20:40.840 --> 0:20:45.240 the country was swinging toward reaction. As I mentioned earlier, 0:20:45.320 --> 0:20:47.640 with the rise of Porfilio Diaz in eighteen seventy six, 0:20:48.040 --> 0:20:51.840 any space for radical thought began to close. Diaz, the 0:20:51.920 --> 0:20:56.359 stronglan of Oneization, was obsessed with order and progress. He 0:20:56.440 --> 0:21:00.760 welcomed foreign capital, built railroads across the nation, and gutted 0:21:00.760 --> 0:21:05.040 the countryside to make room for exports, and he crushed dissent. 0:21:05.920 --> 0:21:09.880 While Roccarati avoided outright persecution thanks in partists foreign status 0:21:09.880 --> 0:21:13.840 and paspest leanings, the educational projects he inspired were dismantled 0:21:13.960 --> 0:21:17.360 or sidelined. The more confrontational elements of the ole anarchists 0:21:17.359 --> 0:21:20.920 current went underground. Those who spoke of abolishing property or 0:21:21.000 --> 0:21:24.920 questioned the Porphylian vision of modernity were met with jail, exile, 0:21:25.119 --> 0:21:29.720 or worse. Rocnati's allies, Alacosta, through his newspaper Like International, 0:21:30.240 --> 0:21:34.760 promoted a twelve point socialist agenda. Advocated on universal social republic, 0:21:35.160 --> 0:21:41.800 municipal autonomy, workers' rights, workers associations, wage abolition, and property equality. 0:21:42.680 --> 0:21:45.919 Despite Diaz's rise in eighteen seventy seven, he led a 0:21:45.960 --> 0:21:49.480 present uprising in Sierra Gorda and Planet the Lla Baranca, 0:21:49.880 --> 0:21:54.119 battling federal forces until eighteen eighty. Despite his defeat and 0:21:54.160 --> 0:21:59.080 imprisonment in eighteen eighty one, the rebellion persisted. Telacosta's ally, 0:21:59.280 --> 0:22:02.520 Colonel Albert to Santa Fe, introduced the Lays del Pueblo. 0:22:02.880 --> 0:22:07.119 Influenced by mcunan's ideas. Though not a purely anarchist manifesto, 0:22:08.000 --> 0:22:13.720 this document emphasized land distribution, national industry promotion, army suppression, 0:22:13.800 --> 0:22:18.760 and free education. Stafe argued that true Mexican independence depended 0:22:18.800 --> 0:22:22.320 on reclaimant stolen lands, a movement which, of course gained 0:22:22.320 --> 0:22:27.680 traction among the peasants. General Negrete supported Santa Fe's revolutionary efforts, 0:22:27.720 --> 0:22:30.399 just as he had backed Chavez, Lopez and Sarlacosta earlier. 0:22:30.800 --> 0:22:34.520 Satafe's resistance against Diaz's dictatorship was more radical than mayor 0:22:34.600 --> 0:22:39.480 electoral opposition. It aimed at transference sovereignty to local municipalities 0:22:39.840 --> 0:22:44.000 and land to peasant collectors. However, by the eighteen nineties, 0:22:44.400 --> 0:22:48.480 Diaz effectively suppressed most worker movements through bribery and repression. 0:22:49.200 --> 0:22:52.600 While industrial workers and miners fared slightly better than the peasants, 0:22:53.160 --> 0:22:58.280 wages steadily declined after eighteen ninety eight. Rodocanati left Mexico 0:22:58.320 --> 0:23:01.040 in eighteen eighty six after giving for two decades of 0:23:01.040 --> 0:23:03.600 his life to the cause. But it's two decades of 0:23:03.680 --> 0:23:06.440 so and seeds would eventually flourish in the Mexican Revolution. 0:23:07.160 --> 0:23:10.520 What will be covering in the next episode. Thanks for 0:23:10.560 --> 0:23:13.640 tuning in, am Andra Sage. You can follow me on 0:23:13.680 --> 0:23:16.880 YouTube at Andrewism and patron dot com slash Saint Drew. 0:23:17.760 --> 0:23:21.119 Thanks again. This is it could happen here. All power 0:23:21.240 --> 0:23:46.199 to all the people. Please hello and welcome to it 0:23:46.200 --> 0:23:49.359 could happen here. I'm back with Yeason Davis. 0:23:49.359 --> 0:23:50.600 Hello, and I'm. 0:23:50.440 --> 0:23:55.200 Andress Sage or Andrewism on YouTube now. Previously we explored 0:23:55.280 --> 0:23:59.240 a lesser known chapter in Mexico's radical history before my 0:23:59.400 --> 0:24:02.800 Gone Before for the Revolution, when a Greek emigre named 0:24:02.920 --> 0:24:07.919 Plotino Rocanati arrived in the eighteen sixties, convinced that Mexico's 0:24:07.960 --> 0:24:11.400 indigenous communal traditions could form the basis for a new 0:24:11.520 --> 0:24:17.200 anarchist society. Through schools, pamphlets, and mutual aid societies. He 0:24:17.200 --> 0:24:20.280 helped sow the first seeds of anarchist thought on Mexican soil. 0:24:20.880 --> 0:24:23.760 Some of his students pushed even further and flirted with 0:24:23.840 --> 0:24:27.600 many bush and streams of anarchism. Even as Portfilio Diazis 0:24:27.640 --> 0:24:30.840 regime clamped down and anything that challenges dry for order 0:24:30.920 --> 0:24:34.760 and progress, Rocanati faded from view and many of his 0:24:34.800 --> 0:24:37.480 students that associates had to go underground for a time, 0:24:37.920 --> 0:24:41.159 but the ideas would live on like quiet sparks or 0:24:41.160 --> 0:24:44.240 waiting for the next revolt, and an actual volt would 0:24:44.240 --> 0:24:49.919 come in nineteen ten, when the Mexican Revolution erupted. By 0:24:49.960 --> 0:24:52.800 keeping in mind the contexts here, when we talk about revolutions, 0:24:52.840 --> 0:24:55.720 the focus tends to be on the flashpoints, the gunfire, 0:24:55.800 --> 0:24:58.679 the slogans, the major figures, and I will do a 0:24:58.680 --> 0:25:01.600 lot of focus on so of them figures throughout this history. 0:25:02.320 --> 0:25:05.240 We have to keep in mind the revolutions have roots 0:25:05.280 --> 0:25:09.480 that run deep, run deep below the surface. The revolutions 0:25:09.480 --> 0:25:13.800 are often shaped by decades or centuries of injustice, and 0:25:13.880 --> 0:25:17.560 Mexico's revolution was no exception because for over three decades 0:25:17.600 --> 0:25:20.800 for Fibio Diaz ruled Mexico with what was basically a 0:25:20.880 --> 0:25:25.400 velvet glove over an iron fist. He brought railroads in electrification, 0:25:25.880 --> 0:25:29.240 but also crave crave costs for the rural poor, the 0:25:29.240 --> 0:25:33.879 indigenous communities, and the working classes. By nineteen ten, thanks 0:25:33.920 --> 0:25:37.000 to his efforts, almost all the land in Mexico was 0:25:37.040 --> 0:25:40.399 in private hands. The rural port and our found themselves 0:25:40.440 --> 0:25:43.000 as peons and haciendas abot those that fled to the 0:25:43.000 --> 0:25:46.920 city for themselves, proletarianized, made to work at various industries 0:25:46.960 --> 0:25:51.119 for long hours, low pay, and little protection. Despite appearance 0:25:51.200 --> 0:25:56.840 stable and efficient and orderly, the system in Mexico was 0:25:56.880 --> 0:26:01.800 profoundly unjust, and yet many saw it as a model 0:26:01.920 --> 0:26:06.240 for progress in a region full of instability, a description 0:26:06.560 --> 0:26:10.680 that seems eerily familiar to the situation that's currently taking 0:26:10.720 --> 0:26:16.480 place in El Salvador. Beneath the Polish Venaier, tensions were 0:26:16.480 --> 0:26:20.440 breren workers were organizing journalists who were risking their lives. 0:26:20.760 --> 0:26:24.280 Teachers and lawyers, and even wealthy landowners began to murmur 0:26:24.280 --> 0:26:28.320 about the need for reform, and the countryside, those old 0:26:28.359 --> 0:26:32.560 communal memories refused to die. Even after the land was taken. 0:26:33.240 --> 0:26:36.960 The land was remembered by the term twentieth century, Giaz 0:26:37.000 --> 0:26:40.199 approached his eighties with no successor in sight, and the 0:26:40.200 --> 0:26:43.320 people were getting fedter, which brings us into the first 0:26:43.359 --> 0:26:47.240 phase of the Mexican Revolution. According to A. Hill Cappaletti, 0:26:47.359 --> 0:26:49.520 the author of Anarchism in Latin America and the main 0:26:49.560 --> 0:26:54.320 source of this episode, Francisco I. Madero wasn't quite a 0:26:54.359 --> 0:26:57.520 revolutionary in all honesty. He just wanted to tweet the 0:26:57.560 --> 0:27:00.560 status ko to keep a free market, but banned reelection 0:27:00.640 --> 0:27:04.800 of presidents came from money. He was an upper class intellectual, 0:27:04.880 --> 0:27:09.320 a believer in parliamentary democracy and in free markets. He 0:27:09.400 --> 0:27:14.520 read the Review spirit the religiously. It was a spiritualist journalism, 0:27:14.600 --> 0:27:17.800 and he believes in a kind of metaphysical liberalism where 0:27:17.920 --> 0:27:21.080 good governance and good intentions could stare history in the 0:27:21.160 --> 0:27:25.879 right direction. Madero's party, the Partido Democrata, was formed with 0:27:25.920 --> 0:27:30.680 a single claire goal, and in Porthio diazis decades long 0:27:30.720 --> 0:27:34.879 grip on power. But to more radical forces like Coricardo 0:27:34.920 --> 0:27:39.840 Flores Margonne and the Partido Liberal Mexicano or PLM, Madero's 0:27:39.920 --> 0:27:44.040 vision was nowhere near enough to get fooled by the name. 0:27:44.119 --> 0:27:48.240 By the way, the PM had some revolutionary credentials. It 0:27:48.280 --> 0:27:52.080 started off as a simple anti clerical, anti editatorial party, 0:27:52.640 --> 0:27:55.359 but perhaps with the influence of North American and Spanish 0:27:55.400 --> 0:28:00.320 immigrant anarchosynicalists, it eventually took on a libertarian character, guided 0:28:00.359 --> 0:28:03.560 also in part for the ideological evolution of Malgone himself. 0:28:04.359 --> 0:28:07.440 It was neither liberal nor truly a party in the end, 0:28:07.560 --> 0:28:12.600 but rather a truly revolutionary libertarian organization. We'll get back 0:28:12.640 --> 0:28:15.640 to Macgone's story in Osaka, but the point is where 0:28:15.680 --> 0:28:19.280 mcgone was calling for social revolution, landry distribution, and worker's 0:28:19.320 --> 0:28:24.720 control of production. Madero merely wanted electoral reform. He had 0:28:24.720 --> 0:28:28.520 no real program for agreerian justice and was quote generally 0:28:28.600 --> 0:28:31.680 indifferent to the problems of the Mexican masses, as Capeletti 0:28:31.720 --> 0:28:36.399 put it. Still, Madero's nineteen ten campaign electrified all of 0:28:36.440 --> 0:28:40.120 those who were unit for change, revolutionaries and reformists alike. 0:28:40.640 --> 0:28:44.360 His challenge Todas helped ignite a broader uprising that managed 0:28:44.400 --> 0:28:48.400 to bring Madero into power in nineteen eleven. Before we 0:28:48.440 --> 0:28:51.360 get into what happened during the Madero presidency, let's go 0:28:51.440 --> 0:28:56.240 back in time to follow Ricardo Flora's Macgone story. Macgon 0:28:56.360 --> 0:28:58.560 was Born in eighteen seventy three in the village of 0:28:58.640 --> 0:29:03.360 San Antonio, Iloxo Chi, then in Osaka, his roots straddled 0:29:03.400 --> 0:29:07.240 both indigenous and Mestizo heritage. As a law students in 0:29:07.280 --> 0:29:10.160 Mexico City, he found himself swept into the tide of 0:29:10.240 --> 0:29:14.640 anti government agitation. Before he even toned twenty, he was 0:29:14.760 --> 0:29:18.000 jailed for the first time. He joined the radical press 0:29:18.000 --> 0:29:21.520 in eighteen ninety three with El Democrat and anti Diaz people. 0:29:21.720 --> 0:29:25.360 The regime quickly snuffed out, but he wasn't deterred. In 0:29:25.440 --> 0:29:29.600 nineteen hundred he co founded Regeneracion, the publication that would 0:29:29.600 --> 0:29:32.520 become the voice of the Mexican left in the twentieth century. 0:29:33.200 --> 0:29:35.840 It was while behind bars, where he often found himself, 0:29:36.160 --> 0:29:39.320 that Macgone encountered the ideas that would shape his life's work. 0:29:40.160 --> 0:29:44.160 Thanks to the library of liberal landowner Camillo Ariaga, he 0:29:44.240 --> 0:29:47.960 read the writings of Kropotkin and Malichester, and through those 0:29:48.000 --> 0:29:53.560 texts crystallized his anarchist vision. Now, even though Magone's ideology 0:29:53.720 --> 0:29:57.280 incubated quietly in his early political life, it didn't stay 0:29:57.320 --> 0:30:01.280 buried for law as his conflicts of the diazre intensified. So 0:30:01.400 --> 0:30:05.120 truly the radicalism of his actions. He edited L Ejo 0:30:05.440 --> 0:30:09.320 del Aquisote, a satirical rag that earned him yet another 0:30:09.560 --> 0:30:12.520 stint in prison, and after his release of nineteen oh four, 0:30:12.600 --> 0:30:15.920 Magroun fled to Texas where he re launched Geracion with 0:30:16.040 --> 0:30:19.600 renewed purpose. By nineteen oh five, the paper helped spark 0:30:19.640 --> 0:30:23.280 the creation of the Patido Liberal and the Hicano or PLM, which, 0:30:23.320 --> 0:30:25.720 as I said, wasn't much of a political party as 0:30:25.720 --> 0:30:28.200 it was a radical organ though it did have some 0:30:28.280 --> 0:30:31.680 reformist demands mixed it. They were trying to soften their 0:30:31.800 --> 0:30:35.760 language at times to appeal to conservative sympathizers of reform. 0:30:35.880 --> 0:30:39.240 Away from the ADS, the PMS sought the abolition of 0:30:39.280 --> 0:30:43.720 the military tribunals, free secular education, workers rights at the 0:30:43.760 --> 0:30:48.200 eight hour workday minimum wage, and the expropriation of idle lands. 0:30:48.240 --> 0:30:51.320 In short, it went further than nineteen seventeen constitution that 0:30:51.360 --> 0:30:54.000 would come a decade later. I could be seen as 0:30:54.000 --> 0:30:58.520 the crystallization of many of the Mexican Revolution's most popular aims. 0:30:59.320 --> 0:31:04.160 Margon and the PLM established alliances across borders, particularly among 0:31:04.160 --> 0:31:06.600 the industrial workers of the world, but that put a 0:31:06.680 --> 0:31:10.040 target on Magone's back. For both Mexican and US authorities. 0:31:10.520 --> 0:31:12.760 You already know they can't be having solid darity like that. 0:31:13.680 --> 0:31:17.720 The Pinkertons rolled up, backed in part by Diaz himself, 0:31:18.240 --> 0:31:22.560 and they were on Magon's tail constantly, even ended up 0:31:22.560 --> 0:31:25.600 as far north as Canada just trying to escape their 0:31:25.680 --> 0:31:31.520 constant harassment. But despite the repression, the momentum could not 0:31:31.600 --> 0:31:34.320 be killed. Between nineteen or six and ninety oh eight, 0:31:34.320 --> 0:31:37.400 the PLM helped organize a string of strikes and uprisings. 0:31:38.040 --> 0:31:42.560 The most infamous was the canear Nea copper strike. Mexican 0:31:42.600 --> 0:31:46.120 miners were paid stop vation wages while their American counterparts 0:31:46.160 --> 0:31:49.440 earned double for the same work. When the miners struck 0:31:49.480 --> 0:31:51.960 for fair pay and better conditions, they were met with 0:31:52.120 --> 0:31:56.480 deadly force. The rebellion that followed so American rangers in 0:31:56.560 --> 0:32:01.440 Mexican troops massacre more than two hundred people thousands were jailed. 0:32:02.520 --> 0:32:06.240 Another uprising ignited in Rio Blanco, where textile workers already 0:32:06.240 --> 0:32:09.320 paid a pittance, organized with the leadership of Jose Nierra, 0:32:09.600 --> 0:32:13.680 a student of Magon. When negotiations failed and repression ramped up, 0:32:14.040 --> 0:32:18.560 the workers responded, not with another petition, both insurrection on 0:32:18.640 --> 0:32:22.200 January seventh, nineteen oh seven, they stormed the mill, freed prisoners, 0:32:22.240 --> 0:32:26.640 cut wires, and declared open rebellion. The state responded with 0:32:26.640 --> 0:32:31.360 a bloodbath. Entire families were dragged from their homes and executed. 0:32:32.720 --> 0:32:35.040 Another one of the uprisings was a peasant revolter, began 0:32:35.080 --> 0:32:38.600 in nineteen oh six in Akayukan and spread through Tuxtlas, 0:32:39.080 --> 0:32:44.000 Mine Titlan and Tavasco. It was crushed, of course, in 0:32:44.080 --> 0:32:46.520 nineteen oh eight and Viscas, though their plans had been 0:32:46.600 --> 0:32:50.120 leaked to the authorities, revolutionaries had a firefight with police 0:32:50.200 --> 0:32:53.720 and freed a town jail. Just two days later, in 0:32:53.800 --> 0:32:57.640 Las Vegas, other students of Magon were fighting for justice. 0:32:57.960 --> 0:33:01.080 Another set of gorillas of rose in Palomas, but they failed. 0:33:01.360 --> 0:33:04.800 Yet another insurrection happened in Via the lead Yucatan, and 0:33:05.000 --> 0:33:09.240 they suffered summary executions. And all those events, all those 0:33:09.280 --> 0:33:13.160 small revolutionary bands challenging the states, they failed, but they 0:33:13.240 --> 0:33:16.440 emboldened the dream of a different world with their will 0:33:16.680 --> 0:33:29.880 to act. Magone was jailed again in nineteen oh seven, 0:33:30.000 --> 0:33:32.800 but it wasn't over for him yet. And I really 0:33:32.800 --> 0:33:36.360 don't like to romanticize, you know, this idea of this uprisings, 0:33:36.480 --> 0:33:39.880 that they feel, but you know, they're still inspiring. We 0:33:39.920 --> 0:33:42.080 don't want to go too fun to that where you know, 0:33:42.120 --> 0:33:46.560 your self sacrifice for self sacrifice sake. But I think 0:33:46.560 --> 0:33:49.480 it's important to point out that there were multiple failed 0:33:49.520 --> 0:33:53.280 attempts before the successful uprising that ushered in the Mexican Revolution. 0:33:54.240 --> 0:33:58.880 It wasn't you know, a first time successful attempt, and 0:33:58.920 --> 0:34:00.760 by the time Malgon was at least from prison in 0:34:00.840 --> 0:34:04.600 nineteen ten, the revolution had already begun to burn across Mexico, 0:34:05.040 --> 0:34:07.360 and that is in part in thanks to the efforts 0:34:07.360 --> 0:34:11.759 of those uprisings. Even though those individual uprisings failed, the 0:34:11.800 --> 0:34:15.680 Catalan immigrant Amadeo Ferres pumped up this energy in nineteen 0:34:15.680 --> 0:34:19.600 eleven with El Tipograph for Mexicano, yet another newspaper with 0:34:19.719 --> 0:34:23.960 a fierce anarcho cynicalist spirit, meant to mobilize urban workers. 0:34:24.600 --> 0:34:27.839 At the same time, old anarchist typographers were not only 0:34:27.880 --> 0:34:31.560 printing their message, they were forming unions like the Union 0:34:31.680 --> 0:34:37.440 de Canteras Mexicanos. In mid nineteen twelve, Juan Francisco Moncaliano 0:34:37.680 --> 0:34:40.600 arrived from Qure and quickly rallied a diverse group of 0:34:40.640 --> 0:34:45.640 workers into Grupo LuSE set on establishing a progressive education platform, 0:34:45.920 --> 0:34:50.759 al Francisco Ferrer. By September nineteen twelve, these unions and 0:34:50.880 --> 0:34:54.960 Grupo Loos united to form La Cassa Delbrero, forging a 0:34:54.960 --> 0:34:59.920 distinctly anarcho synicalist identity. The organized lectures built libraries of 0:35:00.000 --> 0:35:03.920 classic anarchist works and launched a new bi weekly called Lucha, 0:35:04.600 --> 0:35:08.160 all while energizing a massive May Day rally in nineteen thirteen, 0:35:08.600 --> 0:35:13.320 where twenty eight thousand workers rallied. Like Margon, these radicals 0:35:13.320 --> 0:35:16.840 saw through the hollow promises of Madero's democracy. Voting for 0:35:16.840 --> 0:35:19.920 a new president wouldn't free the peasantry. The legislative seats 0:35:19.960 --> 0:35:23.799 wouldn't redistribute land. No congress, no matter how liberal, would 0:35:23.800 --> 0:35:27.520 ever voluntarily dismantle the system that fed it. For them, 0:35:27.960 --> 0:35:30.640 revolution was no less than put in land and production 0:35:30.800 --> 0:35:34.320 in the hands of the people. No bosses, no landlords, 0:35:34.360 --> 0:35:38.640 no masters, just workers organizing life on their own terms. 0:35:39.600 --> 0:35:43.160 Madero's revolution, if we could even be called that, had 0:35:43.320 --> 0:35:47.560 mobilized peasants, workers, and radicals. But that moderate phase was 0:35:47.560 --> 0:35:50.839 about to end because once seated as president, Madero leaned 0:35:50.880 --> 0:35:54.879 heavily on old elites. He really siphoned energy away from 0:35:55.000 --> 0:35:57.800 genuine social change. With that reformance to push that he 0:35:57.920 --> 0:36:01.759 was doing a move that sounds all through familiar, but 0:36:01.880 --> 0:36:04.520 there was refusals in oct meaningful change lost in his 0:36:04.560 --> 0:36:10.040 allies very quickly. Figures like Pasqual, Orosco and even Emiliano Zapata, 0:36:10.080 --> 0:36:13.759 who had initially supported the rebellion against Diaz, became dissillusion 0:36:14.760 --> 0:36:18.440 sowil Madero governed, the PLM continued its fight now against 0:36:18.480 --> 0:36:23.480 the emergent new regime in northern Mexico. PLM aligned forces 0:36:23.560 --> 0:36:27.520 initially rose alongside Madero's, but they did not make common 0:36:27.560 --> 0:36:31.520 cause with him. When strategic positions and hiwawa were lost 0:36:31.880 --> 0:36:35.440 with the middle class and Orosco sided with Madero, the 0:36:35.480 --> 0:36:40.919 Mogonists turned their attention elsewhere. The next target was Baja California. 0:36:41.960 --> 0:36:48.280 In early nineteen eleven. They began seasoned towns Mexicali, Los Alcodonis, Tecate, 0:36:48.600 --> 0:36:53.480 and finally Tijouanna, seeking to establish a libertarian society, a 0:36:53.560 --> 0:36:57.000 model for what they called a free America. But the 0:36:57.000 --> 0:37:01.680 backlash was swift. American, British and French businesses owned pretty 0:37:01.760 --> 0:37:08.480 much all of Baja California, landowners and newspaper mogules in California, USA, 0:37:08.840 --> 0:37:12.120 which were often the same people panicked and ended up 0:37:12.160 --> 0:37:16.000 smearing the mcgonists as secessionists trying to handle from Mexican 0:37:16.080 --> 0:37:20.160 land to the US. In truth, as mcgonn wrote in Regeneracion, 0:37:20.760 --> 0:37:24.920 does Baja California belong to Mexico. It does not, is 0:37:25.040 --> 0:37:29.239 under the control of foreign capital. Mexicans owned nothing of it. 0:37:29.920 --> 0:37:33.360 The PLM's campaign was not about taking Mexico apart. It 0:37:33.400 --> 0:37:36.240 was about reclaiming it from the hands of foreign elites. 0:37:37.000 --> 0:37:41.120 Nothing less than land and liberty, as Capelletti puts it. Quote. 0:37:41.200 --> 0:37:44.480 On the contrary, mcgone's goal was nothing other than a 0:37:44.480 --> 0:37:48.680 classless and stateless libertarian society that will provide the archetype 0:37:48.680 --> 0:37:52.680 and pointed departure for the Mexican and World revolutionia end quote. 0:37:53.680 --> 0:37:56.279 The downfall of the Baja California campaign came in the 0:37:56.280 --> 0:37:59.440 hands of bourgeois Champion Madero, backed to where the US 0:37:59.520 --> 0:38:03.840 government and capitalists. By mid nineteen eleven, the mcgonists uprising 0:38:03.920 --> 0:38:07.800 in Maja California had effectively been extinguished, yet the saga 0:38:07.880 --> 0:38:11.280 didn't end there. On the fourteenth of June and nineteen eleven, 0:38:11.719 --> 0:38:14.680 magone and three of US associates were arrested, tried in 0:38:14.680 --> 0:38:18.120 Los Angeles, and mcgone himself was sentenced to McNeil Island 0:38:18.160 --> 0:38:22.440 Prison in Washington, State of Faith. He endured until nineteen fourteen, 0:38:23.120 --> 0:38:25.560 which meant that macgone wouldn't be present in Mexico for 0:38:25.640 --> 0:38:28.640 the death of one of his biggest ops. Since Madero 0:38:28.760 --> 0:38:31.279 failed to gain the support of radicals or secure the 0:38:31.280 --> 0:38:36.080 loyalty of reactionaries, the conservative military overthrew and assassinated him 0:38:36.480 --> 0:38:41.000 in stolen Victoriano Huerta into power in nineteen twoty, and 0:38:41.160 --> 0:38:43.880 just like that, the so called moderate phase the Mexican 0:38:43.920 --> 0:38:49.000 Revolution ended in blood. Quiet's dictator ship tried to imact 0:38:49.000 --> 0:38:53.080 the clock to the Porphyrian Eraqueta ruled with military force 0:38:53.120 --> 0:38:57.640 and repressure, the usual stuff, persecuting labor organizers, shutting down 0:38:57.719 --> 0:39:02.600 radical spaces, deporting for an activists, jail and dissenters, murdering people. 0:39:03.520 --> 0:39:07.480 Crackdowns eventually hit La Cassa de Lobrero's publications and destroyed 0:39:07.480 --> 0:39:11.480 the anarchist library. But out of this repression emerged a 0:39:11.480 --> 0:39:15.279 new tactic. They basically said, you know, you could burn 0:39:15.320 --> 0:39:18.359 our books. That's fine, don't you have to do. We're 0:39:18.360 --> 0:39:21.279 not going to stop us from spreading our message. They 0:39:21.360 --> 0:39:26.759 established grassroots orators, the Tribuna Roha, who took the revolutionary 0:39:26.760 --> 0:39:30.799 message directly to the working classes, given speeches where they 0:39:30.800 --> 0:39:34.040 were at and sharing the message even without access to literature. 0:39:35.120 --> 0:39:39.480 By May nineteen fourteen, a new people in Antipascion Obrera 0:39:39.760 --> 0:39:44.240 was launched. Do it too felt praise the regime's brutality. Thankfully, 0:39:44.239 --> 0:39:48.160 the regime wouldn't last long because Ptor's power didn't go unchallenged. 0:39:48.840 --> 0:39:53.160 From the north, Venustiano Carranza and the Constitutionalists rose to 0:39:53.160 --> 0:39:57.640 oppose him, claiming to defend the Madero's legacy. From the south, 0:39:57.960 --> 0:40:01.520 Emiliano Zapata refused to EXI accept any government that ignore 0:40:01.560 --> 0:40:05.879 the demands of landless peasants, and throughout the country armed 0:40:06.000 --> 0:40:11.560 struggle reignited, which brings us to Emiliano Zapata himself. He 0:40:11.680 --> 0:40:14.080 was doing his own thing politically, but he was inspired 0:40:14.120 --> 0:40:17.440 in part for the anarchist supporters and Margon. His ideology 0:40:17.480 --> 0:40:20.520 was rooted in Nikalpui, the collective land systems of his 0:40:20.560 --> 0:40:25.759 condigous ancestors. He eventually adopted the slogan Tierra Ileritad and 0:40:25.880 --> 0:40:30.120 rallied behind the Plan de Ayala, demanding land redistribution and 0:40:30.239 --> 0:40:34.239 local self governance. He had little tolerance for political maneuverent 0:40:34.719 --> 0:40:37.640 He saw the false promises of figures like Cuerta and Kranza. 0:40:38.280 --> 0:40:42.400 For Zapata, revolutionist thought about elections or modernization. It was 0:40:42.440 --> 0:40:45.120 what given land back. That's really all he cared about. 0:40:45.840 --> 0:40:50.279 In contrast, as the wariotis Mario, there was Pancho Villa. 0:40:51.120 --> 0:40:54.800 He was a charismatic northern general and a populist who 0:40:54.840 --> 0:40:59.520 worked with and against Kranza. As Magon described him, Zapata 0:40:59.640 --> 0:41:04.200 delivered riches to their true owners, the poor via executes 0:41:04.239 --> 0:41:07.600 the proletarian who takes a piece of bread end coot. 0:41:08.600 --> 0:41:12.200 That both were opposed to Carranza. Their goals, strategies, and 0:41:12.239 --> 0:41:17.600 ethics were far apart. Like I said, mariotas warrior. Queta 0:41:17.640 --> 0:41:20.560 didn't last long. As I mentioned, he was ousted by 0:41:20.640 --> 0:41:23.400 nineteen fourteen, so just about a year of being in 0:41:23.440 --> 0:41:27.719 power and being a violent dictator. And after predator fell, 0:41:27.920 --> 0:41:31.799 Perustiano Caranza rose to fill the vacuue. Like I said, 0:41:31.800 --> 0:41:35.640 he claimed to be continuing Madero's legacy, and his vision 0:41:35.680 --> 0:41:39.400 of Mexico was just as top down. He wasn't exactly 0:41:39.520 --> 0:41:42.880 fond of anarchists or the radical left in general, but 0:41:42.960 --> 0:41:45.960 faced with pressure from these appatistas in the south and 0:41:46.080 --> 0:41:49.200 VI's forces in the north, he courted his lab organizations 0:41:49.239 --> 0:41:52.840 like Cassa de la Brero Mundial offer gestures of support, 0:41:53.040 --> 0:41:56.440 a few favorable labor reforms, and even physical space like 0:41:56.520 --> 0:42:01.160 giving them the Jesuit College Santa Brigida as headquarters. In return, 0:42:01.640 --> 0:42:04.920 Kranza hoped to build a loyal base of organized workers, 0:42:05.360 --> 0:42:08.920 integrate them into his constitutional army, and neutralize the more 0:42:09.000 --> 0:42:13.000 radical strains of revolution. And I'm sorry to say that 0:42:13.360 --> 0:42:15.920 it partially worked. He was able to buy off some 0:42:15.960 --> 0:42:19.640 of these workers. While this alliance gave La Casa de 0:42:19.680 --> 0:42:22.959 Lobrero's space to organize workers throughout the country and ramp 0:42:23.040 --> 0:42:26.640 up educational and prostatizing efforts, much like what would take 0:42:26.680 --> 0:42:30.160 place in Spain years later, the anarchists began to lose 0:42:30.200 --> 0:42:33.960 their anarchist roots from the collaboration. Instead of back in 0:42:34.080 --> 0:42:38.240 the battle. In February nineteen fifteen, Lacassa signed a pact 0:42:38.280 --> 0:42:43.080 with the Constitutionalist forces and created quote unquote Red battalions 0:42:43.200 --> 0:42:47.840 within Kranza's army. But although Lacassa expanded its influence and 0:42:47.920 --> 0:42:52.000 managed amount strikes among miners, teachers, drivers, bakers, oil workers, 0:42:52.000 --> 0:42:55.640 textile workers, carpenters, button makers, and barbers in nineteen fifteen, 0:42:56.040 --> 0:42:58.799 in response to the economic pressures of inflation and unemployment. 0:42:59.280 --> 0:43:03.399 By early nineteen sixteen, their government allies were cracking down 0:43:03.400 --> 0:43:06.719 on them. Not long after hiring the Red Battalions. They 0:43:06.840 --> 0:43:10.160 fired the Red Battalion, so they shut down La CASA's offices. 0:43:10.640 --> 0:43:14.320 They sent key figures to jail. In response, the worker's 0:43:14.360 --> 0:43:17.759 movement held a national congress in Veracruz, and out of 0:43:17.760 --> 0:43:22.480 this emerged a new labor federation built on anarchist syniclust principles, 0:43:22.920 --> 0:43:26.440 committed not to capturing power but to dismantle it, the 0:43:26.520 --> 0:43:32.000 Confederacion del Trabajo de Larion and Hicana. In May nineteen sixteen, 0:43:32.400 --> 0:43:35.279 a general strike erupted in protest of the imprisonment of 0:43:35.360 --> 0:43:39.839 La Caassa's leadership and to demand urgent economic relief. While 0:43:39.880 --> 0:43:43.080 the strike was an immediate success, its ease led many 0:43:43.120 --> 0:43:45.400 young militans to believe that change could come through a 0:43:45.400 --> 0:43:50.200 benevolent state, notably Luis Morones, who would later lead to 0:43:50.200 --> 0:43:56.240 Confederacion Nano Prera Mexicana was CROM signed agreements with Caranza's government. 0:43:57.640 --> 0:44:01.360 Matters intensified ten months later when a second strike broker 0:44:01.520 --> 0:44:05.520 due to lowpe. In response, Caranza ordered mounted police to 0:44:05.600 --> 0:44:10.400 break up assemblies and declared martial law. The strike was crushed, 0:44:10.520 --> 0:44:14.200 its committee suspended all activities, and one prominent leader was 0:44:14.239 --> 0:44:18.640 nearly executed before his sentence was finally commuted. La Cassa 0:44:18.719 --> 0:44:23.160 shut down and the strike failed, but the anarchists endured. 0:44:33.920 --> 0:44:37.760 By mid nineteen seventeen, new groups like Loose and several 0:44:37.800 --> 0:44:42.280 local cassas had reappeared throughout the country. However, internal debates 0:44:42.320 --> 0:44:46.600 culminated in the October nineteen seventeen National Workers Congress, where 0:44:46.600 --> 0:44:51.120 reformist forces led by Luis Moronees properly marginalized the anarchists, 0:44:51.600 --> 0:44:53.920 set in the stage for the rise of the CROM 0:44:54.200 --> 0:44:58.279 and a more moderate pro management approach aligned with of 0:44:58.320 --> 0:45:03.560 All People the American Federation of Labor the AFL. Caranza's 0:45:03.600 --> 0:45:06.600 crowning achievement came in that same year with the signing 0:45:06.640 --> 0:45:10.360 of the Constitution of nineteen seventeen on People. It was 0:45:10.400 --> 0:45:15.360 progressive land reform, limited churish power, labor protections. But to 0:45:15.440 --> 0:45:20.279 many revolutionaries, including Magon, this wasn't the revolution fulfilled. Far 0:45:20.320 --> 0:45:24.080 from it. It was a revolution managed their wireless dreams 0:45:24.120 --> 0:45:27.440 trimmed down to a policy. Even its better reforms were 0:45:27.440 --> 0:45:31.160 hardly enforced. But with the Constitution of nineteen seventeen, Cranzer 0:45:31.160 --> 0:45:35.400 could still claim legitimacy, he could claim progress, and he 0:45:35.440 --> 0:45:39.920 could claim that the revolution was over. But what happened 0:45:39.960 --> 0:45:43.759 to the revolutionaries. Zapata was still fighting for land in 0:45:43.800 --> 0:45:47.000 the South, but Caranza would assassinate him in By nineteen nineteen, 0:45:47.800 --> 0:45:50.680 Magone was in prison in the USA, denouncing the betrayal 0:45:50.719 --> 0:45:54.359 from behind bars. Workers were still struggling for real power 0:45:54.400 --> 0:45:57.600 in their work places, and the vast majority of rural 0:45:57.640 --> 0:46:02.920 Mexicans remained poor, dispossessed, and dissillusion In case you're wondering 0:46:02.960 --> 0:46:06.040 what happened to Macgone in nineteen sixteen, he was jail 0:46:06.040 --> 0:46:08.759 in the US until a group of exiled anarchists led 0:46:08.760 --> 0:46:12.239 by Emma Goldman and Alexander Berkman paid his bond. That 0:46:12.320 --> 0:46:15.560 that feels like a cameo or crossover episode of some kind, right, 0:46:16.719 --> 0:46:19.160 And then in nineteen seventeen, the year of the new Constitution, 0:46:19.440 --> 0:46:22.040 he was back in jail again for speaking out against 0:46:22.080 --> 0:46:25.000 the First World War and calling for a social revolutionary 0:46:25.000 --> 0:46:28.880 war instead. He was sentenced to twenty years and his 0:46:28.960 --> 0:46:32.720 health deteriorated steadily. He wasn't a fan of care anzer 0:46:32.760 --> 0:46:35.799 at Tall. He called him a strike breaker, an assassin, 0:46:35.840 --> 0:46:38.960 and a wolf in sheep's clothing. When a Karanza's government 0:46:38.960 --> 0:46:42.480 offered him a pension, he said, quote all money obtained 0:46:42.520 --> 0:46:45.640 by the stage represents the sweat, the anguish, and sacrifice 0:46:45.640 --> 0:46:49.560 of workers. If this money came directly from workers, I 0:46:49.560 --> 0:46:52.440 would gladly and even proudly accept it because they are 0:46:52.480 --> 0:46:55.440 my brothers. But when it comes to the invention of 0:46:55.480 --> 0:46:58.959 the state, after being compelled from the people the money, 0:46:58.960 --> 0:47:01.719 you would only burn my hands and fill my heart 0:47:01.760 --> 0:47:06.520 with remorse. End quote. So long story short, he didn't 0:47:06.560 --> 0:47:10.359 accept the money. When the US said they might let 0:47:10.440 --> 0:47:13.240 him go if he said sorry and petitioned for a pardon, 0:47:13.760 --> 0:47:18.719 he said, in many words, hell no. Among his more 0:47:18.760 --> 0:47:23.160 beautiful words, he said, quote repentance. I have not exploited 0:47:23.160 --> 0:47:27.040 the sweat, anguish, fatigue, and labor of others. I have 0:47:27.080 --> 0:47:30.080 not oppressed a single soul. I have nothing to repent 0:47:30.120 --> 0:47:33.160 for my life has been lived without my having acquired 0:47:33.160 --> 0:47:36.040 any wealth, power or glory, when I could have gotten 0:47:36.040 --> 0:47:39.719 these three things very easily, But I do not regret it. 0:47:40.440 --> 0:47:44.279 Wealth power and GLORI are only one by trampling others' rights. 0:47:44.760 --> 0:47:47.560 My conscience is at peace, for it knows that under 0:47:47.560 --> 0:47:52.000 my convict's garb beats an honest heart. So he died 0:47:52.160 --> 0:47:57.440 in his jail cell in nineteen twenty two, possibly assassinated. Zapata, 0:47:57.520 --> 0:47:59.960 like I said, was assassinated by Cranzer in nineteen nineteen, 0:48:00.320 --> 0:48:04.759 and Kranz himself was assassinated in nineteen twenty in case 0:48:04.800 --> 0:48:08.319 who were keeping truck, both of Magone's major ops. He 0:48:08.440 --> 0:48:12.080 ended up outliving right. He outlived Madero and then he 0:48:12.120 --> 0:48:15.680 outlived Caranzer, but he still died in jail, which is, 0:48:15.920 --> 0:48:21.160 you know, kind of tragic. But Kranza's successor, Alvaro Obregon, 0:48:21.400 --> 0:48:24.719 was both friendly with reformists in the crom and not 0:48:24.800 --> 0:48:27.560 as hostile to the anarchists as Caranza, which gave the 0:48:27.560 --> 0:48:31.880 anarchists an opportunity to regroup. Strikes built up across the 0:48:31.920 --> 0:48:36.239 country miners, oil workers, textile workers, dock workers, and more. 0:48:37.000 --> 0:48:40.480 Some sixty five thousand workers in July nineteen twenty alone. 0:48:40.960 --> 0:48:45.200 Out of this momentum came the Ferracion Communista del Proletariado 0:48:45.400 --> 0:48:49.880 Mexicano or FCPR. It was an ideologically mixed group but 0:48:50.000 --> 0:48:53.440 leaned in an arctic direction and starkly contrasted itself with 0:48:53.480 --> 0:48:57.400 the reformist ways the CROM and the international ally the AFL. 0:48:58.400 --> 0:49:02.600 The FCPM went on testa wish the Confederacieneral de Tabajadores 0:49:02.719 --> 0:49:06.240 or CGT in nineteen twenty one as a direct challenge 0:49:06.320 --> 0:49:10.200 to CROM. They were fully declaring their independence from state 0:49:10.280 --> 0:49:14.800 and party. Their focus was on class struggle. The Mexican 0:49:14.800 --> 0:49:17.439 government flew to his socialist language from time to time, 0:49:17.560 --> 0:49:20.399 but the anarchists saw through the charade. They called out 0:49:20.440 --> 0:49:24.640 that so called socialist light government's deportation of anarchists and socialists. 0:49:25.400 --> 0:49:30.399 They even called Maroney the guy who started ZROM, Mexico's Mussolini. 0:49:31.000 --> 0:49:34.520 It's an interesting insult. The CGT is still against the 0:49:34.560 --> 0:49:38.520 Moscow backed Third International and instead allied with councilists like 0:49:38.680 --> 0:49:43.600 Rosa Luxembourg and Anton Panacoec. They also formed a specifically 0:49:43.680 --> 0:49:46.360 anarchist section within the group, meant to play the same 0:49:46.440 --> 0:49:49.880 role played by the FAI for the Spanish CGT. The 0:49:49.920 --> 0:49:53.440 Mexican CGT backed strikes, including in nineteen twenty one when 0:49:53.480 --> 0:49:57.080 they backed a real workers' strike against US companies, and 0:49:57.239 --> 0:50:00.200 in nineteen twenty two they expelled the CGT leaders who 0:50:00.239 --> 0:50:04.640 had fluted with electoral politics, reiterating their anti party stance. 0:50:05.120 --> 0:50:09.240 They would not allow themselves to be retaken and capitulated 0:50:09.480 --> 0:50:14.040 to reformist aims. That same year, media protests turned into 0:50:14.080 --> 0:50:17.719 confrontations when right wing thugs kill the demonstrator's child in 0:50:17.760 --> 0:50:20.959 front of the US consolate, and they didn't stop there. 0:50:21.640 --> 0:50:24.880 Anarchists in the CGT helped organize tenant strikes in Mexico 0:50:24.960 --> 0:50:28.000 City and Vera Cruz. They led general strikes and textile 0:50:28.040 --> 0:50:32.239 mills and rallied against steed violence. They protested in solidarity 0:50:32.280 --> 0:50:35.959 with international struggles from Spain to Boston, from the murder 0:50:36.000 --> 0:50:39.360 of Salvador Sigwi to the gelin of Saco and Vencetti. 0:50:40.239 --> 0:50:43.120 They also to deal with efforts to defame them through misinformation, 0:50:43.960 --> 0:50:47.480 such as the accusation that they were embeztling workers' funds. 0:50:47.520 --> 0:50:50.960 Throughout the early nineteen twenties you had some new libertarian 0:50:50.960 --> 0:50:55.960 publications jumping out. You had Verberrojo, you had Lahu, my dad, Sachiitario, 0:50:56.080 --> 0:50:59.920 Tierra Libre, Alba, Anakika, and so on. And by nineteen 0:51:00.000 --> 0:51:04.840 twenty four, under President Kayas, who followed the assassinated Obrigon, 0:51:05.200 --> 0:51:09.360 the tides began to shift. Cays was more hostile to 0:51:09.400 --> 0:51:13.839 the anarchists than Abrigon and openly favored CRON. He gave 0:51:13.920 --> 0:51:18.759 Moronees a cabinet post past lawst undermined CGT organizing and 0:51:19.000 --> 0:51:23.640 escalated repression. The CGT held its ground, organizing general strikes, 0:51:23.640 --> 0:51:27.160 occupying textile mills, confronting the police, expanded into the countryside 0:51:27.200 --> 0:51:30.160 all their usual stuff. They fought for short term relief 0:51:30.200 --> 0:51:33.880 and long term revolution. By nineteen twenty six, CGT had 0:51:33.920 --> 0:51:36.480 grown into a federation of one hundred and fifty seven 0:51:36.560 --> 0:51:42.640 affiliated groups, unions, syndicates, occurring communities all included. And yet 0:51:42.680 --> 0:51:46.719 by the late nineteen twenties things started to free. The 0:51:46.760 --> 0:51:49.600 CROM was declining due to the attachments to a government 0:51:49.600 --> 0:51:53.040 that was no longer conciliatory to their political ambitions, and 0:51:53.120 --> 0:51:56.680 the CGT couldn't capitalize on that decline of the CROM. 0:51:57.280 --> 0:52:01.840 The government sought to marginalize them entirely. Thousands of former 0:52:01.960 --> 0:52:05.560 CROM members joined the CGT, while the CGT itself began 0:52:05.600 --> 0:52:09.319 to make some slides toward concession and reformer zone. And 0:52:09.360 --> 0:52:12.120 so it reached a point where they were calling themselves anarchists. 0:52:12.719 --> 0:52:18.160 But the anarchism was nowhere never and yet anarchism didn't die. 0:52:18.680 --> 0:52:22.279 It morphed, it migrated, and it regrouped. After the fall 0:52:22.320 --> 0:52:25.640 of Spain in nineteen thirty nine, exiled members the CNT 0:52:25.760 --> 0:52:29.600 and FAI arrived in Mexico, reinvigorating the scene for a time. 0:52:30.239 --> 0:52:34.320 They published Tierai Libertad, built new organizations, and kept the 0:52:34.440 --> 0:52:38.960 memory and the fight alive. A few anarchists and impulses managed 0:52:39.000 --> 0:52:41.719 to english within the Mexican Communist Party into the early 0:52:41.800 --> 0:52:45.680 nineteen thirties as well. At least according to Kirkschaffer, President 0:52:45.719 --> 0:52:49.720 Cais ended up founding what became the Institutional Revolutionary Party, 0:52:50.239 --> 0:52:53.400 a contradiction if I ever heard it, And they basically 0:52:53.480 --> 0:52:56.360 ran the show in Mexico for seventy one years straight, 0:52:56.719 --> 0:53:00.600 from nineteen twenty nine to two thousand. They administered co 0:53:00.760 --> 0:53:03.960 created the conditions. They were both the NEOs apatisms. In 0:53:04.080 --> 0:53:07.319 nineteen ninety four, they are anarchists, as they have been 0:53:07.480 --> 0:53:10.560 very clear to state, but maybe they'll get a two 0:53:10.640 --> 0:53:13.480 part in the future going into their history in more depth. 0:53:14.640 --> 0:53:18.320 The history of anarchism in Mexico has been quite the story, 0:53:18.400 --> 0:53:21.759 I must say, and with that we've reached the end 0:53:21.960 --> 0:53:26.280 of that classical history. Its modern history is still being written, 0:53:26.480 --> 0:53:28.520 still being told. But this is the end of our 0:53:28.600 --> 0:53:32.120 exploration for now, not as of Mexico's anarchist history, but 0:53:32.239 --> 0:53:35.840 of this entire series of anarchism in Latin America. I 0:53:35.960 --> 0:53:39.160 joked about baking an episode about Quebec's anarchism scene, but 0:53:40.200 --> 0:53:43.720 that may remain a joke for now. We've justur neyed 0:53:43.760 --> 0:53:47.320 a very long way together, from the Andes to Buenos Aires, 0:53:47.440 --> 0:53:52.319 to Montevideo to South Battlo all over. We've seen how 0:53:52.480 --> 0:53:55.680 long before the name anarchism arrived in Latin America's shows 0:53:56.080 --> 0:54:00.480 people who resisting hierarchy through indigenous forms of autonomy, African 0:54:00.480 --> 0:54:04.920 maroon communities, and peasant traditions of land sharing and reciprocity. 0:54:05.280 --> 0:54:09.239 We saw how these anarchic and anarchist instincts met new 0:54:09.280 --> 0:54:15.120 ideas genuinely and intentionally anarchist ideas coming from prudin Bacunin 0:54:15.160 --> 0:54:18.760 and Kropotkin brought over in pamphlets and in the minds 0:54:18.800 --> 0:54:23.400 of exiles and immigrants in Mexico, those forces took on 0:54:23.520 --> 0:54:29.160 a revolutionary scale. Roda Kanati planted the seed, Macgone amplified 0:54:29.160 --> 0:54:32.480 its voice. The workers, the peasants, the students, they all 0:54:32.560 --> 0:54:35.759 gave it their all, their fire, And even when that 0:54:35.840 --> 0:54:41.120 fire was smothered by reformists, by nationalists, by reactionaries, by capitalists, 0:54:41.120 --> 0:54:44.560 by the bullets and the bribe, it never truly went out. 0:54:45.440 --> 0:54:50.400 Across the Americas, these movements rarely one in the traditional sense. 0:54:50.920 --> 0:54:55.279 They were often betrayed, suppressed, and erased from history. But 0:54:55.320 --> 0:54:59.120 although anarchy was not achieved, anarchists and the anarchist idea 0:54:59.440 --> 0:55:04.279 will survive. Anarchist thought is radically resilient, and it never 0:55:04.320 --> 0:55:08.120 really disappears, and usually just goes underground or into the margins, 0:55:08.560 --> 0:55:12.840 or into new forms, from student collectives to feminist organizations 0:55:12.920 --> 0:55:18.520 to squads to ecological struggles, inspiring movements that aren't necessarily anarchists, 0:55:18.960 --> 0:55:21.560 but lean in a direction that questions some of the 0:55:21.600 --> 0:55:26.600 familiar patterns of authority. Thank you for walking this journey 0:55:26.640 --> 0:55:28.960 with me. I've been Andrew Saige You can find me 0:55:29.000 --> 0:55:31.680 on YouTube at Andrewism. Support the work over our patreon 0:55:31.680 --> 0:55:35.960 dot com slash change threw. All sources, citations and further 0:55:36.000 --> 0:55:39.040 reading can be found in the show notes. This has 0:55:39.080 --> 0:55:43.400 been It could happen here. All power to all the people. Peace. 0:56:05.000 --> 0:56:08.080 Welcome to the war update and update about war. I'm 0:56:08.120 --> 0:56:12.640 your host Miya Wong with the is is James and Robert. 0:56:12.960 --> 0:56:15.080 War never changes, et cetera, et cetera. 0:56:15.280 --> 0:56:20.360 Yeah, except for Yeah, I mean all the time changes. 0:56:21.040 --> 0:56:22.160 Yeah, except for all the changes. 0:56:23.120 --> 0:56:23.560 Yeah. 0:56:23.680 --> 0:56:25.640 I think it's a line from the film. 0:56:25.840 --> 0:56:28.479 Yeah. I mean the most important part doesn't change, which 0:56:28.520 --> 0:56:33.120 is most things in proper place at right time, right. 0:56:33.480 --> 0:56:36.600 That's that's that's what determines war winning. But the things 0:56:36.600 --> 0:56:37.880 that matter are what change. 0:56:37.960 --> 0:56:41.520 Yeah. Yeah. Also what doesn't change not great fun for 0:56:41.600 --> 0:56:43.959 the most part, and non enjoyable way to spend your time. 0:56:44.040 --> 0:56:46.640 Not enjoyable except for for the chunk of people who 0:56:46.640 --> 0:56:48.040 tend to make most of the calls. 0:56:48.640 --> 0:56:52.759 Yeah. Yeah, enjoyable a lot. Yeah, enjoyable. You're an old 0:56:52.800 --> 0:56:54.160 guy in a big house. 0:56:54.760 --> 0:56:54.960 Yeah. 0:56:55.000 --> 0:56:59.360 So we're gonna be talking about three wars. Yeah, I 0:56:59.360 --> 0:57:01.560 think we're going to. We're gonna lead off with the 0:57:01.560 --> 0:57:04.520 India Pakistan war, and then we're gonna do the other 0:57:04.560 --> 0:57:07.239 two wars in some order you want to do you 0:57:07.239 --> 0:57:08.920 want to announce the other two wars. 0:57:09.320 --> 0:57:12.200 Yeah, we're gonna talk about the end of the of 0:57:12.280 --> 0:57:16.040 the armed conflict between the PKK and the Turkey State 0:57:16.160 --> 0:57:17.200 maybe mm hmm. 0:57:17.960 --> 0:57:20.280 Yeah, we'll be talking about Yemen a little bit. 0:57:21.440 --> 0:57:24.919 Yeah, man, Yeah, let's let's Oh god, let's do this. Okay, 0:57:24.960 --> 0:57:29.080 So good news missed that. Look, we do have good news, 0:57:29.120 --> 0:57:30.640 which is that we have not all died in the 0:57:30.720 --> 0:57:32.640 nuclear fires. I know there are some of you for 0:57:32.680 --> 0:57:35.080 whom you were very disappointed, but we're all still here 0:57:35.760 --> 0:57:38.240 for better or for worse, I mean for better. Like 0:57:38.560 --> 0:57:41.640 I'm very glad we didn't all die in nuclear fire. Yeah, 0:57:41.680 --> 0:57:44.320 so let's let's let's talk about the recent war between 0:57:44.360 --> 0:57:49.320 India and Pakistan. Lasted about four days, so all right. Well, 0:57:49.840 --> 0:57:52.280 we talked about this a little bit before. The very 0:57:52.400 --> 0:57:55.800 basic sort of elements of this conflict. We talked about 0:57:55.840 --> 0:57:58.800 partition on the show before when India sort of gained 0:57:58.840 --> 0:58:03.040 independence from the British ere it split into Indian Pakistan. 0:58:03.240 --> 0:58:07.600 Millions died, horrific sort of conflict, people killing each other 0:58:07.800 --> 0:58:11.360 like mass migrations across the borders. 0:58:11.720 --> 0:58:14.400 Very very very unstable set of borders get set up 0:58:14.440 --> 0:58:18.760 that change a bunch of times. And one of the 0:58:18.800 --> 0:58:23.360 aspects of this sort of whole thing is that Kashmir 0:58:24.080 --> 0:58:28.400 was supposed to be this independent state and then through 0:58:28.440 --> 0:58:31.640 an extremely convluted process that I am again once again 0:58:31.680 --> 0:58:35.400 pushing off to another episode with like actual good experts 0:58:35.400 --> 0:58:39.720 on this, because this is a very very convoluted thing. 0:58:40.560 --> 0:58:42.640 But the short version of it basically is that this 0:58:42.720 --> 0:58:46.840 series is sort of escalating conflicts, end ends basically in 0:58:47.040 --> 0:58:50.120 a short war and then kasher being split into between 0:58:50.120 --> 0:58:55.280 India and Pakistan, where like about a third roughly of 0:58:55.360 --> 0:58:57.760 Kashmir ends up under Pakistani control and then about two 0:58:57.800 --> 0:59:01.680 thirds ends up under Indian control. Now there's an agreement 0:59:01.800 --> 0:59:04.000 signed by sort of Kashmir's ruler at the time to 0:59:04.760 --> 0:59:08.960 let India like annex like two thirds of Kashmir or 0:59:09.080 --> 0:59:12.120 so the actual dividing line basically ends up being like 0:59:13.280 --> 0:59:17.600 where the armies stopped. You know, it changes over the years. 0:59:18.000 --> 0:59:21.280 But the important thing here, right is that Kashmir is 0:59:21.360 --> 0:59:25.880 supposed to have had an independence referendum, right that was like, yeah, 0:59:26.000 --> 0:59:30.280 the deal now in a move that is, like Genny Winey, 0:59:30.360 --> 0:59:33.200 even more stunning than the ship that, like Indonesia pulled 0:59:33.240 --> 0:59:37.280 in West Papua so ins Papua. Right, like Indonesia pulls 0:59:37.360 --> 0:59:42.400 a like fake independence referendum here, they've never even done that, Like, 0:59:42.720 --> 0:59:45.200 they never pretended to have the referendum, and. 0:59:45.200 --> 0:59:46.120 They're supposed to have. 0:59:46.440 --> 0:59:50.000 It's like a sub assad level attempt at democracy, you know. 0:59:50.240 --> 0:59:52.680 Yeah, Yeah, they're just like nope, each ship like you're 0:59:52.920 --> 0:59:56.960 you're you're basically a colony now now as part of 0:59:57.000 --> 1:00:02.200 this deal, right, Kashmir God a pretty substantial amount of autonomy. 1:00:02.440 --> 1:00:04.000 I'm gonna read there. There's actually there's a very good 1:00:04.040 --> 1:00:07.919 Jacobin one of the rare good Jacobin articles, which usually 1:00:08.000 --> 1:00:10.600 tend to be the ones written like not by the 1:00:10.640 --> 1:00:11.920 American Jocobin writers. 1:00:12.040 --> 1:00:17.160 Yeah, I'm freelancer who made fifty US dollars for writings. Yeah, 1:00:17.280 --> 1:00:18.600 and that's their right to goun up. 1:00:18.880 --> 1:00:21.440 Yeah, this is written by Irish k And I'm going 1:00:21.480 --> 1:00:24.440 to quote here from this article. Quote central to the 1:00:24.440 --> 1:00:27.720 instrument of a session. It's the document that the ruler 1:00:27.760 --> 1:00:30.320 of Kashmir signed is sort of Likedhan Kashmir ver to India. 1:00:31.520 --> 1:00:35.600 Quote which the constitutional provision of Article three seventy, which 1:00:35.600 --> 1:00:39.520 assured the Kashmiri people autonomy over all matters besides those 1:00:39.560 --> 1:00:44.400 pretending to defense, external affairs, and communications. The article was 1:00:44.400 --> 1:00:47.240 supposed to be temporary and provisional because there was a 1:00:47.280 --> 1:00:49.720 promise of a referendum by which the people of Kashmir 1:00:49.720 --> 1:00:53.080 would decide their own political fate to remain part of India, 1:00:53.160 --> 1:00:55.560 to join up with Pakistan, or become an independent state. 1:00:56.080 --> 1:00:58.640 But as you've already mentioned, this has never happened. I mean, 1:00:58.680 --> 1:01:00.720 they didn't even do a sham one. It just literally 1:01:00.920 --> 1:01:05.680 didn't ever happen. And India has just been imposing its 1:01:05.720 --> 1:01:07.600 rule in Kashmir ever since. And I mean it's also 1:01:07.640 --> 1:01:09.840 worth pointing out that Pakistan has also been imposing its 1:01:09.880 --> 1:01:13.880 rule on like it's part of Kashmir. But the Indian 1:01:13.880 --> 1:01:17.960 occupation has become increasingly brutal basically since its starting, it's 1:01:17.960 --> 1:01:20.680 just continued to get worse and worse, and it is 1:01:20.840 --> 1:01:23.120 sort of a full blown military occupation, right there's just 1:01:23.120 --> 1:01:24.960 like a bunch of fucking Indian troops in the street. 1:01:25.960 --> 1:01:28.840 And as it becomes clear that India is like never 1:01:29.080 --> 1:01:31.520 going to let Kashmir be free or just even let 1:01:31.520 --> 1:01:35.960 the Kashmi people decide what they want. Milton struggles en 1:01:36.000 --> 1:01:38.760 sews and as Kate points out, it's originally spearheaded by 1:01:38.800 --> 1:01:41.840 the secular Jamu Kashmir Liberation Front, and this group has 1:01:41.880 --> 1:01:45.400 just sort of wiped out because it wanted an independent Kashmir. 1:01:46.240 --> 1:01:49.600 And this was convenient to neither the Indian or the 1:01:49.640 --> 1:01:53.280 Pakistani government because Pakistan and Pakistan talks about this a 1:01:53.320 --> 1:01:55.880 lot internactually, like one of their sort of international political 1:01:55.880 --> 1:01:57.920 things is like, yeah, we want free Kashmir. But it's like, no, 1:01:58.040 --> 1:02:00.000 you don't. You want Kashmir to be part of Pakistan. 1:02:00.080 --> 1:02:02.560 And that is not the same thing is it being free? 1:02:02.840 --> 1:02:04.720 Like very clear. 1:02:04.520 --> 1:02:08.800 About this, yeah, and so and so Pakistan's engagement towards 1:02:09.360 --> 1:02:12.320 Kashmir has always been about this, right, It's always been 1:02:12.360 --> 1:02:15.120 about making sure that there wouldn't be any kind of 1:02:15.120 --> 1:02:19.040 sort of independent Kashmir. And so both India and Pakistan 1:02:19.400 --> 1:02:23.600 crush this sort of secular Kashmiri independence group that have 1:02:23.680 --> 1:02:26.920 been spearheading a lot of this, and over time Pakistan is. 1:02:26.920 --> 1:02:28.120 Sort of through it. 1:02:28.200 --> 1:02:31.200 There are a complicated series of things has sorted a 1:02:31.200 --> 1:02:33.560 lot of control over a lot of these groups or 1:02:33.640 --> 1:02:38.960 has intelligence relations with them. Is SI kind of notoriously 1:02:40.000 --> 1:02:43.120 works with militant groups like the I. S I is 1:02:43.160 --> 1:02:47.480 the group in Afghanistan that like really full on did 1:02:47.520 --> 1:02:50.200 the thing that everyone thinks that the US and the 1:02:50.240 --> 1:02:53.240 Saudi sort of did in in terms of like funding 1:02:53.240 --> 1:02:56.360 the worst parts of Lujahadeen, like that was really mostly 1:02:56.400 --> 1:02:58.960 Pakistani intelligence. Yeah, So, like they have a lot of 1:02:59.360 --> 1:03:01.880 relations with a bunch of people who absolutely fucking suck, 1:03:02.800 --> 1:03:06.040 and they've you know, sort of used a lot of 1:03:06.040 --> 1:03:08.680 these a lot of these groups as like a way 1:03:08.720 --> 1:03:10.640 to sort of poke a stick in India and also 1:03:10.720 --> 1:03:14.240 you know, like attempt to obtain their sort of like 1:03:14.520 --> 1:03:18.040 domestic political goals of like weakening India for the real 1:03:18.080 --> 1:03:20.840 sort of internal stability, which we'll come back to later, well, 1:03:20.880 --> 1:03:23.400 the interior's ability of like military of the power of 1:03:23.400 --> 1:03:26.880 the military in Pakistan, and also like taking the rest 1:03:26.920 --> 1:03:31.120 of Kashmir. Yeah, and so this has caused a really 1:03:31.160 --> 1:03:35.120 horrific conflict in which the people of Kashmir have suffered 1:03:35.400 --> 1:03:39.560 a bunch of horrible shit. In twenty nineteen, that autonomy, 1:03:39.600 --> 1:03:42.080 you know again that the autonomy that was the carrot 1:03:42.120 --> 1:03:44.000 in order to like join in order in exchange for 1:03:44.080 --> 1:03:48.640 cashmer joining India, right, and I supposedly getting this referendum, 1:03:48.680 --> 1:03:51.240 like the like the carrot was supposed to be that 1:03:51.280 --> 1:03:55.720 they're supposed to have an unbelievable amount of internal autonomy. 1:03:56.160 --> 1:03:58.400 And in twenty nineteen, it had been being eroted for 1:03:58.440 --> 1:04:00.000 a long time, but in twenty nineteen, India is just 1:04:00.120 --> 1:04:02.920 like each hit fuck you, it's gone, now have fun. 1:04:04.000 --> 1:04:07.680 And this causes a bunch of protests, It causes Milton 1:04:07.760 --> 1:04:12.680 Group attacks, it causes a genuinely astonishing crackdown. I mean, 1:04:12.720 --> 1:04:15.200 like they they turned off the phones in the internet 1:04:15.440 --> 1:04:18.360 in Cashmir. The Indian government just like did this and 1:04:18.600 --> 1:04:22.200 it became unbelievably difficult to get any information out. They 1:04:22.480 --> 1:04:27.040 arrested unbelievable numbers of people. There are I mean just 1:04:27.280 --> 1:04:31.600 absolutely horrifying accounts of the ship that Indian security forces 1:04:31.600 --> 1:04:34.600 were doing to people. You know what I mean, Like 1:04:34.640 --> 1:04:36.640 this is this is this is a colonial occupation, right, 1:04:36.680 --> 1:04:38.760 The things that happened in the colonial occupation. They fucking 1:04:38.800 --> 1:04:42.320 torture people, they kill people, they like they rape people. 1:04:42.640 --> 1:04:47.320 It's it's really fucked And during this as as more 1:04:47.440 --> 1:04:53.520 sort of like militant attacks rupt like in India, does 1:04:53.560 --> 1:04:56.120 the first version of its well not the first version, 1:04:56.120 --> 1:04:58.840 but it does. It does like it launches a series 1:04:58.880 --> 1:05:03.720 of attacks on southern Pakistan and this is kind of 1:05:04.680 --> 1:05:06.640 you know, there were escalations of it a couple of 1:05:06.760 --> 1:05:10.400 years ago, but you know, the sort of big deal 1:05:10.520 --> 1:05:14.600 this time was insurgents and it's we have a group 1:05:14.680 --> 1:05:17.320 that claimed responsibility for it. It's still I don't know, 1:05:17.360 --> 1:05:19.280 it's still unclear the extent to which packs INNY government 1:05:19.320 --> 1:05:22.120 was actually involved. There's the whole thing with this. But 1:05:22.360 --> 1:05:24.680 a bunch a bunch of sort of insurgents killed like 1:05:24.800 --> 1:05:29.680 twenty five Hindu tourists in a KASHMIRII tourist town and 1:05:29.720 --> 1:05:36.680 it's really fucking horrifying. This immediately causes this just unhinged 1:05:36.760 --> 1:05:39.880 wave of Indi nationalism, like you do for sort of 1:05:39.960 --> 1:05:43.400 nationalism in India. We talked last time about all of 1:05:43.440 --> 1:05:46.280 these Indian government officials like literally talking about quote in 1:05:46.400 --> 1:05:49.680 Israel style final solution to Kashmir. So a bunch of 1:05:49.840 --> 1:05:53.720 very very horrific shit is happening. Yeah, and then India 1:05:53.720 --> 1:05:56.760 decides that it's going to start launching attacks across the border. 1:05:56.800 --> 1:05:59.120 There's like the immediate small arms fire, there's missile strikes, 1:05:59.120 --> 1:06:03.120 there's drone attack, and then as this sort of escalates, 1:06:03.120 --> 1:06:08.800 India launches attacks on three Pakistani air bases and again 1:06:08.840 --> 1:06:10.760 like they hit an air base that is in the 1:06:10.800 --> 1:06:16.160 city where Pakistan's Army General headquarters is, which is a 1:06:16.240 --> 1:06:19.400 kind of provocation that has not happened since like the 1:06:19.480 --> 1:06:21.400 last time these two countries were just straight up at war. 1:06:22.560 --> 1:06:25.200 And you know, like that could have killed us all. 1:06:25.400 --> 1:06:28.480 It didn't, but it absolutely could have, and it was 1:06:28.520 --> 1:06:32.960 also just horrifying for it. And it's worth pointing this 1:06:33.000 --> 1:06:36.280 out right. The people who are getting killed on both 1:06:36.320 --> 1:06:40.640 sides of the border here, like ur Kashmiri's right, because 1:06:40.680 --> 1:06:43.840 like their home has been occupied by these two powers. 1:06:44.240 --> 1:06:46.600 When when India and Pakistan go to war, the people 1:06:46.600 --> 1:06:50.440 who die on both sides are ar kashmiris right, who 1:06:50.440 --> 1:06:52.760 are being killed by two states who decided, fuck you, 1:06:52.840 --> 1:06:54.520 we get to control your fate, We get to be 1:06:54.600 --> 1:06:57.840 the people who fucking occupy your land and then claim 1:06:57.920 --> 1:07:01.520 to be the people who represent you. And you know, 1:07:01.640 --> 1:07:04.520 the civilian toll of this is fucking horrifying. There's a 1:07:04.560 --> 1:07:08.240 bunch of a bunch of civilians are killed. People spend 1:07:08.320 --> 1:07:11.480 a huge amount of time cowering in these like horrifying 1:07:11.560 --> 1:07:14.440 overcrowded bunkers. There's a good sort of BBC report on 1:07:14.480 --> 1:07:17.640 this of like there's so many people packed into bunkers 1:07:17.640 --> 1:07:19.960 that like you can't even like walk. Everyone's just like 1:07:20.120 --> 1:07:23.280 pressed against each other. And three days later you come 1:07:23.280 --> 1:07:25.360 out of your bunker and your fucking house is gone. 1:07:26.200 --> 1:07:29.320 And those are the people who survived, right. It's it's 1:07:29.760 --> 1:07:36.640 just horrifying, and eventually there's a ceasefire. Everyone is now 1:07:36.680 --> 1:07:39.560 saying different things about the ceasefire. The Indian government is 1:07:39.560 --> 1:07:42.280 trying to downplay the US's role in the ceasefire. The 1:07:42.280 --> 1:07:44.520 Pakistani government has been talking about how a whole bunch 1:07:44.560 --> 1:07:47.640 of places were involved, including like Iran and Turkey to 1:07:47.680 --> 1:07:50.920 some extent, or Turkey more than I Ran. It seems 1:07:50.920 --> 1:07:54.160 like the US, the UK, and Saudi Arabia all played 1:07:54.800 --> 1:07:57.000 a role in sort of mediating it that we can 1:07:57.040 --> 1:07:59.800 sort of confirm. The US seems to have played the 1:07:59.840 --> 1:08:05.000 law just roll, which I guess I don't know. Like 1:08:05.360 --> 1:08:09.240 Marco Rubio was like, we should probably not have a 1:08:09.280 --> 1:08:13.520 war between to nuclear powers, which okay, I'm glad that 1:08:13.680 --> 1:08:15.880 like he's finally found a thing a level that he 1:08:15.920 --> 1:08:18.519 won't stoop to which is we all die in nuclear war. 1:08:21.240 --> 1:08:24.479 I mean, like I would rather Maka Rubio was not 1:08:25.400 --> 1:08:28.280 the Secretary of State. But like of the people who 1:08:28.320 --> 1:08:30.680 could be under Trump administration, he's not as bad as 1:08:30.680 --> 1:08:31.800 some of the other folks. 1:08:32.080 --> 1:08:36.200 Yeah, I mean it's like he we are fully in 1:08:36.360 --> 1:08:39.160 Like which of Hitler's generals would you prefer to be 1:08:39.200 --> 1:08:40.560 in charge of this territory? 1:08:42.160 --> 1:08:42.920 All these people. 1:08:43.000 --> 1:08:44.439 Yeah, we don't need it. We don't need a debate 1:08:44.520 --> 1:08:46.559 raml right now. What we do need to do is 1:08:46.720 --> 1:09:00.160 throw to ads the Irwin Rommel of the podcast industry. 1:09:01.640 --> 1:09:03.639 Okay, so there are a few things about this conflict 1:09:03.680 --> 1:09:07.240 that are very, very bad. One is that India has 1:09:07.520 --> 1:09:10.280 demonstrated the capacity to launch attacks against Pakistan that don't 1:09:10.360 --> 1:09:14.160 involve them mobilizing their ground troops, which takes forever. It 1:09:14.240 --> 1:09:17.640 is hard. That's really fucking bad. It's also bad that 1:09:18.000 --> 1:09:21.360 again they fucking hit like the air base next to 1:09:21.400 --> 1:09:25.160 Pakistan General Army General Headquarters, which means if they try 1:09:25.160 --> 1:09:27.200 to do another attack, they're gonna have to hit a 1:09:27.240 --> 1:09:30.559 bigger target. And they apparently it seems like the Indian 1:09:30.600 --> 1:09:32.320 government has sort of concluded that they can do this 1:09:32.400 --> 1:09:35.000 now it's also very bad that like most of the 1:09:35.000 --> 1:09:38.439 like domestic Indian left supported this, including CPIM, the comediest 1:09:38.439 --> 1:09:40.640 party of India Marxists, which is like the sort of 1:09:40.680 --> 1:09:44.320 social democratic technically Maoist party that is supposed to be 1:09:44.400 --> 1:09:47.040 like the left in India, like back the attacks, and 1:09:47.080 --> 1:09:49.880 they've always had a fucking terrible line on Kashmir. So 1:09:50.200 --> 1:09:52.720 it's also we're mentioning a little bit. There's been a 1:09:52.760 --> 1:09:56.519 lot of reporting about India. You know, Modia isn't making 1:09:56.560 --> 1:09:58.640 a bunch of noise about trying to just straight up 1:09:58.720 --> 1:10:03.880 cut off Pakistan's access to water, which is very scary. Yeah, 1:10:04.240 --> 1:10:08.000 it's worth noting. Kay talks about this in that Jocobin piece. 1:10:08.600 --> 1:10:10.479 Case argument basically is that like they don't actually have 1:10:10.520 --> 1:10:13.200 the infrastructure to do this, which is good because I 1:10:13.200 --> 1:10:15.200 mean that would be a genocide. Like if they just 1:10:15.320 --> 1:10:18.040 knocked out all back Then's access to water for agricultural 1:10:18.080 --> 1:10:20.559 purposes and for drinking purposes, it'd be really bad. But 1:10:20.760 --> 1:10:22.519 here's what I'm going to read this quote. Under the 1:10:22.520 --> 1:10:25.680 treaty regulations, India is required to share hydrological data that 1:10:25.760 --> 1:10:28.519 is essential for planning to deal with floods and or 1:10:28.600 --> 1:10:31.920 drought dream monsoon seasons. Denying Pakistan access to this data 1:10:31.960 --> 1:10:35.000 would have a damaging impact. Moreover, because of the limited 1:10:35.000 --> 1:10:38.120 storage capacity, India can change the timing of water flow, 1:10:38.479 --> 1:10:41.280 which is crucial for many crops during sewing seasons. So 1:10:41.680 --> 1:10:43.120 there is still a lot of damage they can do. 1:10:43.280 --> 1:10:47.559 They can't straight up do like a genocide, but they 1:10:47.560 --> 1:10:50.519 can do a lot of damage. And while both sides 1:10:50.560 --> 1:10:53.960 have backed off of like direct military conflict, India still 1:10:54.160 --> 1:10:55.880 is committed to every single thing they can do to 1:10:55.960 --> 1:10:59.240 fuck with Pakistan, which affects just like the people Pakistan. 1:10:59.280 --> 1:11:01.599 This has also been plit very good for Modi because 1:11:02.120 --> 1:11:05.559 alternationalism has been bolstering the sort of like Pakistani military 1:11:05.600 --> 1:11:08.200 government because there are alternationalists feed off of this, and 1:11:08.240 --> 1:11:10.880 it's once again really fucking bad for the people of Kashmir, 1:11:10.920 --> 1:11:12.320 who are the ones getting killed on both sides of 1:11:12.320 --> 1:11:17.640 the border. Yep, war is bad. Free Kashmir hate this. 1:11:17.960 --> 1:11:22.519 Yeah. Well, speaking of war being bad, let's talk about 1:11:22.520 --> 1:11:26.160 what's going on in Yemen. So if you remember from 1:11:26.520 --> 1:11:31.040 the last quarter or so of the Biden administration, after 1:11:31.200 --> 1:11:35.919 Israel launched their were prisal attacks to October seventh on Gaza, 1:11:36.479 --> 1:11:40.599 the Huthis, which is a depending on your stance, either 1:11:41.120 --> 1:11:44.479 the legitimate government of Yemen or a rebel group in Yemen. 1:11:44.760 --> 1:11:47.439 You know, the International community stance is a rebel group. 1:11:47.479 --> 1:11:50.800 The Houthis stance is different. Started launching a series of 1:11:50.800 --> 1:11:54.200 missile attacks, both aimed at Israel and aimed at shipping 1:11:54.560 --> 1:11:57.639 in the Gulf of Aden, right in order to disrupt 1:11:57.680 --> 1:12:00.000 because the significant amount of the world's trade goes through there. 1:12:00.520 --> 1:12:03.879 And this took a number of forms. They have ballistic missiles, 1:12:03.920 --> 1:12:06.400 some of them are indigenous, by which I mean made 1:12:06.640 --> 1:12:10.240 by the who. These oftentimes using stocks that were captured 1:12:10.280 --> 1:12:14.320 from the military and government of Yemen previously. You know 1:12:14.360 --> 1:12:17.840 that they supplanted in a lot of areas and other 1:12:17.920 --> 1:12:22.360 times using missiles that were given to them by Iran. Yeah, right, 1:12:22.439 --> 1:12:25.120 So it's a mix of tactics. They have also used 1:12:25.240 --> 1:12:28.680 drones and they have also landed troops in order to 1:12:28.840 --> 1:12:33.439 capture bulk freighters, including one called the Galaxy Leader and 1:12:33.479 --> 1:12:37.000 I think twenty twenty three that was full of cars 1:12:37.439 --> 1:12:40.479 and their claim was that it was a British vessel, 1:12:41.000 --> 1:12:43.960 and obviously the Brits had been helping to arm and 1:12:44.000 --> 1:12:48.160 support Israel. The vessel was actually registered in Lebanon. However, 1:12:48.320 --> 1:12:50.560 whenever we get to discussions about like whose vessel is, 1:12:50.600 --> 1:12:53.400 who's none of that. None of what is registered matters. 1:12:53.479 --> 1:12:55.719 Vessels are registered all over the place for a variety 1:12:55.760 --> 1:12:59.920 of nothing. It's always nonsense. That means nothing. I'm masha, 1:13:00.120 --> 1:13:04.439 and nothing in the entire world matters less to the 1:13:04.439 --> 1:13:07.280 reality of a situation than where the vessel is registered. 1:13:07.320 --> 1:13:09.439 I'm not saying that justifies or does it with the 1:13:09.439 --> 1:13:11.559 houthis that, I'm just saying it does not matter where 1:13:11.560 --> 1:13:15.880 the vessel is registered. Yeah, yeah, the ship was owned 1:13:15.920 --> 1:13:18.240 by a Lebanon based company, But also given the nature 1:13:18.280 --> 1:13:20.360 of capitals, it doesn't all matter all that much. Now. 1:13:20.479 --> 1:13:23.400 What also doesn't matter is that in January of this year, 1:13:23.760 --> 1:13:26.880 the Hoothi's freed the captain of that ship and they 1:13:26.880 --> 1:13:29.439 made an announcement that they would limit further attacks to 1:13:29.520 --> 1:13:33.960 vessels flagged deed as Israeli or owned by Israeli individuals 1:13:34.040 --> 1:13:38.400 or entities. Right now, that also doesn't mean a lot, 1:13:38.680 --> 1:13:42.479 right because the nature of international trade means that there 1:13:42.479 --> 1:13:44.400 are a lot of you know, you could basically argue, 1:13:44.439 --> 1:13:47.439 if you're the houthis, well, this is owned by a 1:13:47.479 --> 1:13:51.160 multinational corporation who owns companies in Israel or who has 1:13:51.200 --> 1:13:55.120 heavy investments in companies in Israel. Therefore, right, as a result, 1:13:55.360 --> 1:13:58.760 you know, the Hoothi's continued doing the hoothy stuff, and 1:13:59.120 --> 1:14:02.000 Trump saw them as kind of a convenient target, a 1:14:02.040 --> 1:14:05.479 convenient place to flex's military muscles. And there were some 1:14:05.520 --> 1:14:08.840 people within the United States defense establishment that considered that 1:14:08.960 --> 1:14:12.560 extremely convenient too, right, And this is largely due to 1:14:12.640 --> 1:14:16.080 the fact that Biden prescribed a very limited campaign against 1:14:16.080 --> 1:14:19.480 the Huthies. Now this does not mean inexpensive or insignificant. 1:14:19.520 --> 1:14:23.600 We kept at least one aircraft carrier carrying out strikes 1:14:23.760 --> 1:14:26.320 in Yemen for like a year or so, which is 1:14:26.400 --> 1:14:29.120 kind of the first combat duty that an aircraft carrier 1:14:29.120 --> 1:14:31.360 has had in quite some time. That was really like 1:14:31.520 --> 1:14:35.040 active taking incoming fire, not incoming fire that ever really 1:14:35.080 --> 1:14:38.439 threatened the carrier itself. But that's sort of beside the point. 1:14:38.680 --> 1:14:41.639 And there were people within the US military establishment who 1:14:41.640 --> 1:14:44.680 were consistently frustrated with the Biden administration that they were 1:14:44.760 --> 1:14:48.000 not letting them operate at a high enough tempo, right, 1:14:48.439 --> 1:14:51.880 And kind of the number one guy advocating for this 1:14:52.040 --> 1:14:54.640 side of events was General Michael E. Carilla, who is 1:14:54.640 --> 1:14:57.880 the head of Central Command or syentcom right, and his 1:14:57.960 --> 1:15:00.679 attitude had been we need a much more aggressive, high 1:15:00.680 --> 1:15:03.920 tempo campaign he pitched the Trump administration when they came in. 1:15:03.960 --> 1:15:05.880 I think it's like an eight to ten month long 1:15:06.040 --> 1:15:10.080 campaign where initially they would degrade who their anti air asset. 1:15:10.200 --> 1:15:12.559 So first we go in there and we use our 1:15:12.600 --> 1:15:15.520 air power to establish air what's called air supremacy. 1:15:15.640 --> 1:15:15.880 Right. 1:15:16.080 --> 1:15:20.280 Air superiority means that you have better quality air support, 1:15:20.479 --> 1:15:23.880 but also your shit can get knocked down. Air supremacy 1:15:23.920 --> 1:15:27.120 means you have complete control of the skies. Right. The 1:15:27.240 --> 1:15:31.080 US military is fairly used to having air supremacy if 1:15:31.080 --> 1:15:34.280 you look at, like, for example, our combat in Iraq 1:15:34.320 --> 1:15:38.360 and Afghanistan, when it came to like height, like fighter 1:15:38.400 --> 1:15:41.120 aircraft helicopters would get shot down from time to time 1:15:41.160 --> 1:15:46.400 obviously and have accidents. We weren't losing F eighteens in Afghanistan, right, 1:15:46.400 --> 1:15:48.240 like they weren't getting knocked out of the fucking sky 1:15:48.320 --> 1:15:52.400 by the Taliban. We had air supremacy in Ukraine. Depending 1:15:52.439 --> 1:15:55.599 on what part of the battlespace you're talking about, either 1:15:55.680 --> 1:15:57.720 things have been more or less at a standstill, or 1:15:57.800 --> 1:16:01.120 Russia has had air superiority but not supremacy, right because 1:16:01.200 --> 1:16:04.720 Ukraine has very solid modern anti aircraft defenses and it 1:16:04.720 --> 1:16:07.519 has been able to exact a toll. We will talk 1:16:08.040 --> 1:16:10.639 to a greater extent about what's been happening with India 1:16:10.640 --> 1:16:14.360 and Pakistan. It is exceedingly unclear at the moment who 1:16:14.400 --> 1:16:17.320 got the better of the engagement. Did any of those 1:16:17.439 --> 1:16:20.800 Chinese anti aircraft missiles actually knock out aircraft? Did any 1:16:20.880 --> 1:16:25.200 India lose any aircraft? Did Pakistan down an aircraft? We 1:16:25.240 --> 1:16:27.720 actually like everyone's making different claims right now, and I 1:16:27.720 --> 1:16:30.760 don't have objective evidence right other than that we can 1:16:30.880 --> 1:16:33.640 we know that things that there's at least evidence of, 1:16:33.880 --> 1:16:36.160 at least one case what looks like refkage of a 1:16:36.240 --> 1:16:38.519 rough fall, and in at least one case there's what 1:16:38.640 --> 1:16:41.920 looks like a knocked down Chinese anti aircraft missile. I'm 1:16:41.960 --> 1:16:43.760 spacing on the exact name right now, but again, that 1:16:43.800 --> 1:16:47.560 doesn't mean anything about how they actually affair in the battlespace, 1:16:47.680 --> 1:16:50.519 right So anyway, Yeah, this motherfucker he had a syncom. 1:16:50.560 --> 1:16:53.320 Michael Lee Corilla was like, I've got this plan. We 1:16:53.360 --> 1:16:55.000 need a much more force we're going to knock out 1:16:55.000 --> 1:16:57.760 their anti air defenses, and then we're going to basically 1:16:58.400 --> 1:17:00.880 carry out a modified version of what is real carried 1:17:00.920 --> 1:17:03.800 out against Hamas and has belat right, where we start 1:17:03.840 --> 1:17:06.760 targeting and killing the leadership Cadro once we've knocked out 1:17:06.800 --> 1:17:10.200 their defenses, and he estimated that would take about a 1:17:10.200 --> 1:17:11.960 little under a year, right, but the better part of 1:17:11.960 --> 1:17:14.600 a year. And the Trump administration said, you can have 1:17:14.640 --> 1:17:18.200 your higher tempo war, but you've got to show results 1:17:18.200 --> 1:17:21.240 in about a month. Right, In about a month, the 1:17:21.360 --> 1:17:24.200 US military carrid out about eleven hundred strikes they killed. 1:17:24.400 --> 1:17:26.600 They say hundreds of hoo thy fighters, destroyed quite a 1:17:26.600 --> 1:17:29.960 bit of weapons and equipment. Very unclear how many fighters 1:17:30.000 --> 1:17:33.759 they killed, certainly hundreds of people. Were those all hoothy fighters? 1:17:34.000 --> 1:17:37.280 How many weapons and equipment were destroyed? I don't have 1:17:37.400 --> 1:17:40.160 access to that sort of data, and I'm not entirely 1:17:40.240 --> 1:17:43.080 confident that anyone in the US military has a much 1:17:43.160 --> 1:17:46.639 better idea. Certainly a little bit more data, but also 1:17:46.680 --> 1:17:48.639 they get that shit wrong all the fucking time. 1:17:48.920 --> 1:17:49.120 Yeah. 1:17:49.360 --> 1:17:51.160 It's also like it's worth noting, right when they're talking 1:17:51.160 --> 1:17:55.759 about like casualty numbers, the Huthis are not a small 1:17:55.800 --> 1:17:59.920 rebel group like now they control the capital of Yemen, right, 1:18:00.280 --> 1:18:03.880 Like this is like the government, right yeah, they have not. 1:18:03.880 --> 1:18:06.800 A peer state in terms of the US and that 1:18:06.800 --> 1:18:10.080 they do not have the manufacturing base and capacity, but 1:18:10.200 --> 1:18:14.400 they are equivalent to a small state actor, right yeah, yeah. 1:18:14.800 --> 1:18:16.800 And so and so what you're bombing them, right like 1:18:17.160 --> 1:18:21.200 you're you're just you're blowing smoking creators and apartment buildings. 1:18:21.320 --> 1:18:25.080 And the Hoothies are so experienced with getting bombed. They've 1:18:25.120 --> 1:18:27.720 been bombed by a lot of people before. None of 1:18:27.760 --> 1:18:31.160 this is new to them, right, yeah. So in the 1:18:31.200 --> 1:18:34.599 first thirty days, while they you know, the US has 1:18:34.680 --> 1:18:36.760 made a lot, has made a lot of claims about 1:18:36.760 --> 1:18:39.040 how many people they killed and the level of degradation 1:18:39.080 --> 1:18:42.559 of Hoothy capacity, the Houthis have done some damage to 1:18:42.720 --> 1:18:45.960 US capacity. They have shot down sevens at this point, 1:18:46.000 --> 1:18:48.240 at least seven m Q nine Reaper drones, which are 1:18:48.280 --> 1:18:51.640 thirty million dollars each. And in addition, now four f 1:18:51.720 --> 1:18:57.160 eighteen jets have been lost not probably yeah, probably just 1:18:57.200 --> 1:18:59.360 to fuck ups that are a result of the tempo 1:18:59.439 --> 1:19:02.600 of activity. Right. These all tend to be craft that 1:19:02.640 --> 1:19:06.799 are landing and don't get caught by the catapult system 1:19:06.880 --> 1:19:10.280 that they've got on these aircraft carriers or otherwise wind 1:19:10.360 --> 1:19:13.920 up in the Red Sea. Right, there is some suspicion 1:19:14.040 --> 1:19:16.680 and debate is to like, is there any sort of 1:19:16.720 --> 1:19:21.080 like internal treason going on here? Is somebody on the 1:19:21.120 --> 1:19:25.200 aircraft carrier making these fuck ups happen. This is being investigated, 1:19:25.240 --> 1:19:28.799 I believe, although there's no confirmation about like what exactly 1:19:28.840 --> 1:19:32.120 has gone down. It's weird to lose this many FA 1:19:32.400 --> 1:19:35.479 eighteen super hornets and a very short period of time. 1:19:35.840 --> 1:19:38.760 Yeah, I will say my understanding of it. Also, is 1:19:38.800 --> 1:19:40.000 it the everything that's going on here is that this 1:19:40.040 --> 1:19:42.360 aircraft carrier has been out past the point it should 1:19:42.400 --> 1:19:45.160 have been refitted. Yes, like so extraordinarily. 1:19:45.720 --> 1:19:48.160 And it's also not weird that people fuck up when 1:19:48.200 --> 1:19:50.599 they are carrying out operations at a tempo they never 1:19:50.680 --> 1:19:53.439 have before, Right, And there's a very good chance that 1:19:53.439 --> 1:19:55.599 it's nothing more than that the more you fly, the 1:19:55.600 --> 1:19:57.040 more accidents are going to happen. 1:19:57.520 --> 1:19:57.960 Right, Yeah. 1:19:58.000 --> 1:19:58.320 Period. 1:19:58.400 --> 1:20:01.120 Also I want to say, I want to say, imagined 1:20:01.200 --> 1:20:02.439 you were like the deck office. 1:20:02.439 --> 1:20:08.600 Oh man, that poor motherfucker, that motherfucker's getting fucked Like yeah, 1:20:09.080 --> 1:20:09.240 like the. 1:20:09.240 --> 1:20:11.679 First one goes over, right, and then the second one 1:20:11.840 --> 1:20:15.799 huh goes yeah, And now it's happening right now you've 1:20:15.840 --> 1:20:17.960 probably been you're out of the job. 1:20:18.479 --> 1:20:20.479 And that first guy's kind of lucky because when the 1:20:20.520 --> 1:20:23.080 next two fall off, at least maybe that's less pressure 1:20:23.160 --> 1:20:23.639 on you. 1:20:24.240 --> 1:20:28.320 Yeah, Like imagine like you're the deck officer of the 1:20:28.520 --> 1:20:33.200 fourth Yeah. Yeah, Jesus. 1:20:37.200 --> 1:20:41.120 God, that's gotta suck. So in about thirty days, the 1:20:41.200 --> 1:20:44.120 US military had burned more than a billion dollars on 1:20:44.160 --> 1:20:48.000 this operation, right at which point Trump and people around 1:20:48.080 --> 1:20:50.479 him were like, oh fuck, we can't keep this ship up. 1:20:50.520 --> 1:20:54.120 We can't maintain this tempo of operations. There were warnings 1:20:54.120 --> 1:20:57.360 given forin the Defense Department that we have used so 1:20:57.560 --> 1:21:00.200 many of our most advanced munitions that if China makes 1:21:00.240 --> 1:21:02.200 a move on Taiwan, we're not sure we have the 1:21:02.240 --> 1:21:05.680 reserves necessary right these munitions. When we talk a lot 1:21:05.720 --> 1:21:08.679 about the capacity of US firepower, people talk about shit 1:21:08.800 --> 1:21:12.760 like in twenty eighteen, how we like a There was 1:21:12.800 --> 1:21:15.719 this Arqaita guy who had been responsible for the attack 1:21:15.760 --> 1:21:18.160 on the US coal twenty something years ago. 1:21:18.439 --> 1:21:21.360 Yeah, a long gas time ago. 1:21:20.720 --> 1:21:22.880 Who used a cell phone he shouldn't have used briefly 1:21:22.880 --> 1:21:24.200 and then turned it off, and we were able to 1:21:24.240 --> 1:21:26.479 get visual confirmation of where he was from the cell 1:21:26.479 --> 1:21:28.960 phone signal and knock his ass out with a drone. Right, 1:21:29.439 --> 1:21:35.800 And we do have incredible capacity potentially to make unbelievably 1:21:35.880 --> 1:21:41.639 precise strikes. However, that capacity is reliant both upon a 1:21:41.760 --> 1:21:46.800 functional network of human intelligence, a functional network of operators 1:21:46.840 --> 1:21:50.599 of aircraft and drones who are not completely burnt out 1:21:50.600 --> 1:21:54.759 by the tempo of operations, and access to incredibly advanced munitions, 1:21:54.800 --> 1:21:57.880 which we do not have an inexhaustible capacity, and are 1:21:57.880 --> 1:22:01.920 reliant upon an international supply chain to continue to manufacture, right, 1:22:03.320 --> 1:22:05.880 and all of that has been endangered by the tempo 1:22:05.960 --> 1:22:09.760 of this campaign. And ultimately there's a great New York 1:22:09.800 --> 1:22:13.280 Times report on this that's just absolutely damning to the 1:22:13.280 --> 1:22:16.280 military that came out as called why Trump suddenly declared 1:22:16.360 --> 1:22:19.200 victory over the Hoothy militia, that declared that after all 1:22:19.280 --> 1:22:22.559 of this, the best we can say is perhaps a 1:22:22.880 --> 1:22:27.160 modest degradation of Hoothy capacities that they can easily recover 1:22:27.280 --> 1:22:29.960 from given enough time, which they're going to get because 1:22:29.960 --> 1:22:32.320 Trump both declared victory and stated that the Hoothies had 1:22:32.400 --> 1:22:36.320 yet again agreed to stop striking shipping in the Red Sea, 1:22:36.400 --> 1:22:38.040 and he was like, this is a win. We made 1:22:38.080 --> 1:22:40.479 a deal with him, big deal maker, Donald Trump made 1:22:40.479 --> 1:22:42.080 a deal. Now, if you look at what the Houthi said, 1:22:42.280 --> 1:22:45.719 all they said is we're going to stop striking Israeli shipping, which, 1:22:45.760 --> 1:22:49.880 if you'll recall, is what they had said in January. 1:22:51.000 --> 1:22:57.679 So did we win Now? Did the Hoothies win? Not yet, 1:22:57.840 --> 1:23:00.720 but they're you know, they didn't lose. And again, if 1:23:00.760 --> 1:23:04.439 you understand your insurgent warfare, you win by just not 1:23:04.680 --> 1:23:05.960 losing for long enough. 1:23:06.280 --> 1:23:07.320 Right. Yeah. 1:23:07.560 --> 1:23:10.200 Well, and it's also worth it's worth mentioning too when 1:23:10.200 --> 1:23:12.479 you're talking about the global supply chain part of this. Right, 1:23:12.800 --> 1:23:14.680 on the one hand, like the US has done an 1:23:14.680 --> 1:23:16.639 extraordinary amount to try to make sure that as much 1:23:16.640 --> 1:23:18.320 as the supply chain as they can is in the US. 1:23:18.400 --> 1:23:20.639 On the other hand, it still requires a bunch chef 1:23:20.640 --> 1:23:22.560 mother places, including a bunch of rare earth metals that 1:23:22.600 --> 1:23:25.799 the US gets from China. Now you may be noting 1:23:26.200 --> 1:23:29.000 we are currently fighting a trade war with China. A 1:23:29.040 --> 1:23:32.200 bunch of the our li strategic planning is about stopping 1:23:32.200 --> 1:23:36.640 a Chinese invasion of Taiwan. So and we've just expended 1:23:36.760 --> 1:23:39.920 a shit ton of our stack pilot shots that we 1:23:39.960 --> 1:23:42.679 can only replace by using shit we get from China. 1:23:42.880 --> 1:23:47.120 So absolute, just gedious brain shit that that that's happening 1:23:47.120 --> 1:23:49.599 here right now at the highest levels of the highest 1:23:49.640 --> 1:23:50.559 levels of the regime. 1:23:51.479 --> 1:23:54.280 Memma has a lot of rare earth metals, but we 1:23:54.400 --> 1:23:56.920 have China is currently a lot closer to securing those 1:23:56.960 --> 1:23:57.920 than the United States. 1:23:58.000 --> 1:23:58.080 Is. 1:23:58.640 --> 1:23:59.960 Yeah, it's not great. 1:24:00.439 --> 1:24:03.679 Well that's all I got. That's the who is. Let's 1:24:03.680 --> 1:24:05.320 have another ad break real quick here. 1:24:05.520 --> 1:24:06.160 Yeah, let's do that. 1:24:06.240 --> 1:24:06.600 Let's do that. 1:24:06.640 --> 1:24:19.680 Let's have an ad break. Lovely, what a nice advertising 1:24:19.760 --> 1:24:23.439 break we are. Now that I know many of you 1:24:23.520 --> 1:24:27.120 have been asking me about what is happening in Kurdistan, 1:24:27.800 --> 1:24:30.600 So I'm going to try my best to very briefly 1:24:30.720 --> 1:24:34.160 explain that in the last segment of this show. So, 1:24:35.080 --> 1:24:40.000 the PKK right, the PKK being the branch of the 1:24:40.080 --> 1:24:44.400 Kurdish Freedom Movement that has operated in Turkey as Turkey 1:24:44.479 --> 1:24:48.920 or Northern Kurdistan, and mostly since the mid twenty teens, 1:24:49.360 --> 1:24:52.760 has been based in a Rack or Southern Kurdistan. Right, 1:24:53.000 --> 1:24:56.000 it convened its twelfth Congress in the second week of May, 1:24:56.600 --> 1:25:01.080 and it decided to disband itself late down its arms. 1:25:01.520 --> 1:25:04.519 And I think the phrasing it used was to cease 1:25:05.080 --> 1:25:09.040 armed activities under the PKK name, which is a way 1:25:09.040 --> 1:25:16.040 of saying things more broadly. It did genuinely seem to 1:25:16.040 --> 1:25:18.680 indicate a commitment to like this sort of ballot not 1:25:18.760 --> 1:25:21.519 the bullet approach. And I'm going to quote kind of 1:25:21.600 --> 1:25:26.559 extensively here from the statement that the PKK released, and 1:25:26.600 --> 1:25:30.320 then from other statements from like people Genial Bick, the 1:25:30.400 --> 1:25:34.040 leader one of the co chairs of the KCK, the KSEK, 1:25:34.360 --> 1:25:38.080 if you're not familiar, it's a Curdistan Communities Union that 1:25:38.320 --> 1:25:42.360 is a group that allows the different areas of the 1:25:42.439 --> 1:25:45.479 Kurdish Freedom movement, all of which are inspired by the 1:25:45.479 --> 1:25:48.839 political thought of ab Aujerlan, to sort of come together 1:25:49.080 --> 1:25:56.639 and discuss their paradigm, their goals, their methodologies. I guess. 1:25:57.320 --> 1:26:00.519 So I want to read from the PKK statement to 1:26:00.520 --> 1:26:04.320 begin with quote the process initiated by Leader Abdullah or 1:26:04.360 --> 1:26:07.840 Janan statement of February twenty seventh, and further shaped by 1:26:07.840 --> 1:26:11.800 his extensive work and multi dimensional perspectives, culminated in the 1:26:11.800 --> 1:26:15.559 successful convening of our Twelfth Party Congress between May fifth 1:26:15.560 --> 1:26:19.919 and May the seventh. Despite ongoing clashes, aerial and ground attacks, 1:26:20.000 --> 1:26:24.120 continued siege of our regions and the KDP embargo, our 1:26:24.120 --> 1:26:28.679 Congress was held securely under challenging conditions due to security concerns. 1:26:28.720 --> 1:26:31.600 It was conducted simultaneously in two different locations, with a 1:26:31.640 --> 1:26:34.519 participation of two hundred and thirty two delegates in total. 1:26:34.840 --> 1:26:39.360 The PKK twelfth Congress discussed leadership, martyrs, veterans, the organizational 1:26:39.360 --> 1:26:43.799 structure of the PKK and armed struggle, and democratic society building, 1:26:44.000 --> 1:26:46.640 culminating in the historic decisions marking the beginning of a 1:26:46.680 --> 1:26:50.559 new era for a freedom movement. It's a very long statement, 1:26:50.880 --> 1:26:54.519 as tends to be the style of statements from the 1:26:54.560 --> 1:26:57.320 Curdish Freedom movement. It talks a lot about Abdullah ja 1:26:57.360 --> 1:27:00.240 Lene as tends to be the style of statement from 1:27:00.280 --> 1:27:02.880 the Kurdish freedom movement. I've have linked itin the shown 1:27:02.880 --> 1:27:04.560 as if you'd like to read all of it, you know, 1:27:04.600 --> 1:27:06.639 and encourage you too, you're interested in this sort of thing. 1:27:07.120 --> 1:27:09.800 They talk a lot about the democratic nation concept and 1:27:09.840 --> 1:27:12.559 the idea that occurs in Turks of coxisted in Turkey 1:27:12.720 --> 1:27:16.000 for a long time, I thought this part was of interest, 1:27:16.040 --> 1:27:17.840 and going to quote again here, the decision of our 1:27:17.880 --> 1:27:20.880 Congress to dissolve the PKK and end the method of 1:27:21.000 --> 1:27:24.040 armed struggle offers a strong basis for a lasting piece 1:27:24.080 --> 1:27:28.439 and a democratic solution. Implementing these decisions requires that leader 1:27:28.479 --> 1:27:32.240 Appo Appo. It's the evocative form of the Kurdish word 1:27:32.280 --> 1:27:35.360 for paternal uncle, but in this in this instance, it's 1:27:35.400 --> 1:27:38.920 referring to abdulah Jaalan, right, that's his nickname. Leader Appo, 1:27:39.080 --> 1:27:42.800 Lead and guide the process that has right to democratic 1:27:42.800 --> 1:27:48.120 politics be recognized and that solid, comprehensive legal guarantees be established. 1:27:48.439 --> 1:27:51.120 At this stage, it is essential that the Grand National 1:27:51.160 --> 1:27:56.000 Assembly of Turkey plays its role with historical responsibility. So 1:27:56.040 --> 1:27:58.519 a couple of things that are of note there. One 1:27:58.720 --> 1:28:03.200 is that they're talking about this this transition towards democracy 1:28:03.400 --> 1:28:06.360 or a brotherhood of nations. So talk about somewhere else, right, 1:28:06.680 --> 1:28:09.519 brotherhood of people's it's occurring under the leadership and direction 1:28:09.640 --> 1:28:12.639 of Abdulla Ujerlan. If you are not familiar with Abdullah Ousjerlan, 1:28:12.840 --> 1:28:15.759 you can listen to Roberts theories. So the women's wards 1:28:15.760 --> 1:28:17.600 are the great job of explaining a lot of the 1:28:17.600 --> 1:28:19.599 stuff that we won't have time to get into today. 1:28:20.040 --> 1:28:24.200 Very briefly, Appo has been in Imrali and various other 1:28:24.280 --> 1:28:28.760 Turkish prisons since nineteen ninety nine. For long periods of 1:28:28.760 --> 1:28:32.120 that time, no one was able to see him. He 1:28:32.240 --> 1:28:35.200 was held completely in communicado. At times there were hundreds 1:28:35.200 --> 1:28:38.360 of troops guiding only him on this Turkish prison island. 1:28:39.000 --> 1:28:40.840 That is no longer the case. Right. He made this 1:28:40.880 --> 1:28:44.639 statement on the twenty seventh of February, and since then 1:28:45.760 --> 1:28:49.800 the Kurdish Freedom Movement has had access to Ouscherlan. Right. 1:28:50.040 --> 1:28:54.200 He actually made another statement on the eighteenth of May 1:28:54.880 --> 1:28:57.760 where he said, I quote, a new contract is needed 1:28:57.800 --> 1:29:00.200 based on the law of brotherhood. What we are doing 1:29:00.200 --> 1:29:03.240 represents a major paradigm shift. The nature of the Turkish 1:29:03.320 --> 1:29:06.640 Kurdish relationship is fundamentally different. What has been broken in 1:29:06.720 --> 1:29:10.960 the bond of brotherhood. It seems like through the DEM 1:29:11.080 --> 1:29:14.719 Party right, which is a left leaning party in Turkey, 1:29:14.800 --> 1:29:17.280 which has supported the Kurdish cause and for a long 1:29:17.320 --> 1:29:21.320 time has served as like the interlocutor between Turkey and 1:29:21.360 --> 1:29:24.760 the Kurdish Freedom movement. Through the DEM Party, they have 1:29:24.960 --> 1:29:30.599 access to Ouserland and they're able relatively frequently. It seems 1:29:30.600 --> 1:29:33.320 like these dem party officials to go to him rally 1:29:33.400 --> 1:29:37.280 and talk to him, and so they're talking about his 1:29:37.479 --> 1:29:43.519 leadership continuing through this democratic transition. Right. For the Curdish 1:29:43.520 --> 1:29:47.360 Freedom Movement, Jimil Bikes Jimil Bike again is the co 1:29:47.520 --> 1:29:50.719 chair of the ksey K and institutions within the Kurdish 1:29:50.720 --> 1:29:53.639 Freedom Movement. There's a co chair system, right, which means 1:29:53.640 --> 1:29:57.120 so that a man and a woman share the chairmanship 1:29:57.240 --> 1:30:01.920 of an institution such that they triarchal structures aren't replicated 1:30:02.360 --> 1:30:05.759 in the movement. That's the goal of the co chair system. 1:30:06.080 --> 1:30:07.720 He has a two part interview in A and F 1:30:07.760 --> 1:30:10.080 which I've linked again in the notes. He talked about 1:30:10.120 --> 1:30:14.120 how like the first role of the PKK, of the movement, 1:30:14.160 --> 1:30:16.479 even before it was called the PKK, was to quote 1:30:16.560 --> 1:30:21.920 unquote reveal the Kurdish quote unquote Kurdish question, right, That's 1:30:21.960 --> 1:30:24.080 how they refer to it. Other times I talk about 1:30:24.080 --> 1:30:26.599 her Kurdish people were on their knees and like under 1:30:26.640 --> 1:30:29.800 the leadership of Augiland they stood up. They talk about 1:30:29.840 --> 1:30:32.800 also how matt Arrarat Turkey has a plaque apparently where 1:30:32.800 --> 1:30:35.800 it says like here is buried the imaginary Kurdish nation, 1:30:36.920 --> 1:30:39.599 and like the Kurdish nation is certainly not buried anymore. 1:30:39.680 --> 1:30:42.599 Right like it, it's very active. Kurds are very politically 1:30:42.640 --> 1:30:45.680 empowered in two of the four countries where Kurds live, 1:30:45.800 --> 1:30:48.200 right Like in Turkey they are to a lesser extent, 1:30:48.240 --> 1:30:50.639 but they're still present. No one could deny their presence. 1:30:51.120 --> 1:30:54.639 In Iran, it's still, i guess more difficult the time 1:30:54.680 --> 1:30:58.559 for the Kurdish freedom movement, Biack said. Within our initial 1:30:58.600 --> 1:31:02.400 paradigm and our first manifesto, the Kurdish identity, the Kurdish 1:31:02.400 --> 1:31:06.320 people and Kurdish society were formed. A society in love 1:31:06.360 --> 1:31:09.519 with freedom was formed. People emerged that would fight for 1:31:09.600 --> 1:31:12.800 freedom under any circumstances. On this basis, we are now 1:31:12.800 --> 1:31:16.600 developing a new paradigm, a second manifesto. This paradigm, this 1:31:16.720 --> 1:31:19.479 manifesto aimed to resolve not only the Kurdish question, but 1:31:19.560 --> 1:31:21.479 also the issues of the peoples of the Middle East 1:31:21.520 --> 1:31:25.439 and humanity as a whole. Rabert Apple, rayber Smith's leader, 1:31:25.840 --> 1:31:28.719 Rabert Apple is no longer leading only the Kurdish people. 1:31:28.800 --> 1:31:41.320 He's leading all peoples in humanity. Yeah it's yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, 1:31:41.320 --> 1:31:45.439 it's yeah. This is the sort of rhetoric we can 1:31:45.479 --> 1:31:49.320 expect from the case k right, Like they're very dedicated 1:31:49.360 --> 1:31:53.240 to Julan as a leader. Yes, yes, and you know, 1:31:53.520 --> 1:31:55.120 Robert and I have both been trus Java. 1:31:55.120 --> 1:31:57.240 I've heard a lot of no life without our leader's 1:31:57.240 --> 1:31:59.160 speeches and seeing a lot of a lot of those 1:31:59.160 --> 1:31:59.840 posters as well. 1:32:00.360 --> 1:32:02.280 Yeah. Yeah, Like you can't really go into a space 1:32:02.880 --> 1:32:05.240 you'll see other Like it's not just Oserlan, right, you're 1:32:05.240 --> 1:32:07.240 going to see a wind I can, and you're going 1:32:07.280 --> 1:32:10.400 to see it's not like just a guy with a mustache. 1:32:10.400 --> 1:32:12.479 You're going to see women idolized in the movement too. 1:32:12.520 --> 1:32:16.960 But auscher Land to the greatest extent is like their 1:32:17.040 --> 1:32:20.360 dear leader figure. You can see his face all over Rashava, 1:32:20.960 --> 1:32:24.200 and they're very dedicated to Oucherlen's leadership. And like this 1:32:25.160 --> 1:32:29.160 change in structure does not change that, or this change 1:32:29.200 --> 1:32:32.599 in approach has not changed that. In fact, it underlines that, right, 1:32:32.680 --> 1:32:36.240 Like from the letter that Ocherlean wrote and he wrote 1:32:36.320 --> 1:32:39.000 letters to different parts of the Kurdish Freedom movement came 1:32:39.080 --> 1:32:42.760 this change, right, So it's still at the instruction of Ochelin, 1:32:43.240 --> 1:32:48.519 albeit with the consent of these delegates who went to 1:32:48.560 --> 1:32:52.519 this PKK Congress right and voted. I've reached out to 1:32:52.560 --> 1:32:55.760 the k CK to ask for a comment on like 1:32:56.160 --> 1:32:59.400 exactly what this means in terms of like most of 1:32:59.400 --> 1:33:01.400 the KCK, as I said, are in the mountains of 1:33:01.479 --> 1:33:06.080 southern Kurdistan now, and they have fought Turkey there for years. Right, 1:33:06.120 --> 1:33:09.160 We've covered that on this podcast North in Iraq, Southern Kerdistan, 1:33:09.240 --> 1:33:12.839 however you wish to call it, like Turkey has been bombing. 1:33:13.240 --> 1:33:15.160 They were bombing it last time I was there. I'm 1:33:15.160 --> 1:33:17.040 sure they were bombing it last time Robert was there. 1:33:17.320 --> 1:33:22.040 They've been bombing it ever since. And the villages that 1:33:22.160 --> 1:33:25.080 have really suffered as a result. Right, people have lost 1:33:25.120 --> 1:33:27.920 their theildren, they've lost their lands, they've often had their 1:33:27.920 --> 1:33:32.560 crops burned right by these bombs. So I'm interested to 1:33:32.640 --> 1:33:36.120 know that will the idea of the Kurdish Freedom Movement 1:33:36.280 --> 1:33:40.040 leaving the mountains there is I mean, it would be 1:33:40.080 --> 1:33:42.160 a hell of a site they've been in, they've been 1:33:42.160 --> 1:33:45.080 in those mountains for a long time. But I don't 1:33:45.120 --> 1:33:48.760 know what this means for the Kurdish Freedom Movement in 1:33:48.920 --> 1:33:52.240 Southern Kurdistan. But I've asked. I don't know if this 1:33:52.360 --> 1:33:56.920 means that they will attempt like a straight up electoral strategy, right, 1:33:57.080 --> 1:34:02.200 or when Ogerland's asking for new contract, right, like a 1:34:02.240 --> 1:34:05.800 new social contract. That's how in Rajaba they literally have 1:34:05.800 --> 1:34:06.479 a social contract. 1:34:06.520 --> 1:34:06.600 Right. 1:34:06.600 --> 1:34:09.640 The social contract is generally like a theoretical construct in 1:34:09.760 --> 1:34:12.479 most like neoliberal democracies, the idea that you and the 1:34:12.520 --> 1:34:15.960 state enter into an agreement whereby you give up some 1:34:16.000 --> 1:34:19.120 freedom and you lose some danger and the state gives 1:34:19.160 --> 1:34:21.520 you some safety and it takes some of your freedom. 1:34:22.200 --> 1:34:24.760 In raja but the social contract is a real thing, right, 1:34:24.800 --> 1:34:28.200 Like it's a thing that is formed in consultation with society. 1:34:28.720 --> 1:34:33.720 So when when we see Appo asking a bandon new contract, 1:34:33.720 --> 1:34:36.040 does that mean that they will engage like on the 1:34:36.040 --> 1:34:39.680 basis of a new Turkish constitution. I don't know. I 1:34:39.680 --> 1:34:41.559 don't think any of us have answers to these questions, 1:34:41.560 --> 1:34:43.800 and I imagine that they don't either, write like they 1:34:44.360 --> 1:34:48.879 have decided to pursue this strategy of peace. They've decided 1:34:48.880 --> 1:34:52.200 that through their armed conflict they were able to prove 1:34:52.200 --> 1:34:55.200 that they exist. And that's a phrase that specifically people 1:34:55.400 --> 1:34:57.360 have said to me in the Kurdish Freedom movement, like 1:34:57.439 --> 1:35:00.200 we had to pick up arms to prove that we exist. 1:35:00.960 --> 1:35:04.160 And now that there's no denying their existence, they can 1:35:04.880 --> 1:35:08.599 use different methods, right like they put down their weapons 1:35:08.680 --> 1:35:12.040 and talk and established with Turkey how to coexist, having 1:35:12.160 --> 1:35:15.519 established that they exist through the armed struggle. So for them, 1:35:15.560 --> 1:35:17.840 this is like they're celebrating it, right. They'll draw the 1:35:17.880 --> 1:35:22.519 analogy very often to like Shinfein in Ireland. That's one 1:35:22.560 --> 1:35:25.280 that you're here pretty often, and that this is their 1:35:25.320 --> 1:35:29.120 Good Friday. Now. In the Good Friday Agreement, Britainer released 1:35:29.160 --> 1:35:34.599 people from prison. Number of very highly cherished, very highly 1:35:34.640 --> 1:35:37.759 respected members of the Kurdish Freedom movement are still in prison. 1:35:37.840 --> 1:35:41.599 Of course, Oderlan being the most sort of widely loved 1:35:41.880 --> 1:35:44.920 and respected member of the Kurdish Freedom movement. I don't 1:35:44.920 --> 1:35:47.320 think we're seeing Osderlan come out of prison. I don't 1:35:47.360 --> 1:35:49.920 think there's a world in which Turkey would let that happen. 1:35:50.320 --> 1:35:53.720 But maybe we will see some other people released. Maybe 1:35:54.040 --> 1:35:57.639 we will see those people. I don't enter into electoral politics. 1:35:57.640 --> 1:36:00.639 Some of them have been in the struggle for fifty 1:36:00.640 --> 1:36:03.640 plus years, right, like fifty years living in the mountains 1:36:04.160 --> 1:36:07.559 and constantly being worried about being bombed. So it'll be 1:36:07.600 --> 1:36:10.160 fascinating to see how this This has been a long 1:36:10.640 --> 1:36:12.880 and bloody conflict. It has been going for longer, but 1:36:13.000 --> 1:36:16.200 any of us have been alive. If the friends are happy, 1:36:16.200 --> 1:36:16.679 then I'm. 1:36:16.560 --> 1:36:19.840 Happy for them, right, And if peace is. 1:36:19.760 --> 1:36:22.680 What they want and they can get away to continue, 1:36:23.400 --> 1:36:25.839 like General Bick says, like the people in love with freedom, 1:36:25.880 --> 1:36:28.320 Like if they can keep their freedom and they can 1:36:28.360 --> 1:36:31.519 do it without war, then I'm happy for them because, 1:36:31.640 --> 1:36:34.599 like I've talked to a lot of Kurdish parents who 1:36:34.600 --> 1:36:35.559 have buried their children. 1:36:36.040 --> 1:36:38.680 God Almighty been to too many of the graveyards and 1:36:38.720 --> 1:36:39.439 northern Syria. 1:36:39.640 --> 1:36:43.439 Yeah, yeah, there's little white graveyards with little children's faces. 1:36:43.479 --> 1:36:45.880 Like that will stay with me forever. 1:36:45.960 --> 1:36:47.680 Whatever stops that, you know. 1:36:48.200 --> 1:36:51.160 Yeah, Like if one of the things that kind of 1:36:51.160 --> 1:36:53.240 struck me when I was in Rajaba last time is 1:36:53.280 --> 1:36:56.920 that like death just falls from the night sky sometimes, yeah, 1:36:56.960 --> 1:36:59.800 and maybe maybe it's your baby, maybe it's you, maybe 1:36:59.840 --> 1:37:03.559 it's your grandma, And it's a pretty horrible way to live. 1:37:04.200 --> 1:37:07.759 And going through that for your freedom is something very brave. 1:37:07.920 --> 1:37:12.720 And they have endured some of the worst conflict on 1:37:12.760 --> 1:37:15.439 the planet in the last few decades, right, They've fought 1:37:15.479 --> 1:37:17.679 some of the worst fucking people on the planet on 1:37:17.680 --> 1:37:21.040 one and if there is a way that the people 1:37:21.040 --> 1:37:23.439 of Kurdistan can enjoy peace, I want that for them 1:37:24.080 --> 1:37:26.320 because they've been at war for a very long time. Yep, 1:37:27.400 --> 1:37:29.200 Hi everyone, it's James, and which is adding this pick 1:37:29.280 --> 1:37:32.080 up to the episode. I was able to get some 1:37:32.920 --> 1:37:35.880 questions answered on behalf of the Kurdish Freedim movement, and 1:37:35.920 --> 1:37:38.439 I would just like to share those answers with you. 1:37:39.040 --> 1:37:41.559 So I asked Ifvojulan was able to address the Congress. 1:37:41.600 --> 1:37:44.439 I'd prieviously been told he was. This is a response. 1:37:45.040 --> 1:37:48.240 Throughout the more than twenty six years that Kurdish People's 1:37:48.320 --> 1:37:50.800 Leader Abdula Ogelan has been held hostage in the prison 1:37:50.880 --> 1:37:53.080 island of him Rally, he has always found ways to 1:37:53.080 --> 1:37:55.400 convey his messages and perspectives to the Congress of the 1:37:55.400 --> 1:37:58.679 PKK that has taken place. So it was again regarding 1:37:58.720 --> 1:38:01.439 the twelfth Congress of the pKa, which convened from May 1:38:01.439 --> 1:38:03.200 the fifth to May the seventh in the Free Mountains 1:38:03.240 --> 1:38:05.760 of Kurdistan. He was able to forward his ideas and 1:38:05.800 --> 1:38:08.719 analysis via the various delegations that have visited him throughout 1:38:08.760 --> 1:38:11.960 the last few months, I asked about Ojulan's call for 1:38:12.000 --> 1:38:14.920 a new social contract and they told me Turkish People's 1:38:14.960 --> 1:38:17.880 Leader ab Dela Ojulan's calls and the historic initiative that 1:38:17.960 --> 1:38:20.599 he has taken do not imply that the Turkish State 1:38:20.640 --> 1:38:22.840 has adopted the same attitude or that the state has 1:38:22.960 --> 1:38:26.000 changed its approach. Kurdish People's Leader ab de la Aujulin 1:38:26.120 --> 1:38:28.240 is not simply hoping for a change of mentality in 1:38:28.240 --> 1:38:30.880 the state, but it's moving forward developing his project and 1:38:30.920 --> 1:38:33.559 thereby pulling the state along with him. What he is 1:38:33.600 --> 1:38:37.000 currently primarily concerned with is a redefining and reconstruction of 1:38:37.000 --> 1:38:40.639 the historical alliance of the Kurdish and Turkish people, which 1:38:40.640 --> 1:38:43.200 has been derailed during the past century. A long term 1:38:43.200 --> 1:38:46.280 democratic solution to the Kurdish question necessitates a recognition of 1:38:46.320 --> 1:38:48.320 the role of the Kurds in the establishment and development 1:38:48.320 --> 1:38:51.559 of the republic. Relations between the peoples must be brought 1:38:51.600 --> 1:38:55.040 back to the historical routes, so division cannot be realized Unilatterally, 1:38:55.360 --> 1:38:57.719 it lays in the nature of the way the struggle 1:38:57.760 --> 1:38:59.800 at the Kurdish People's Leader ab Del Ajulan and the 1:38:59.800 --> 1:39:02.600 p that when they want to achieve a solution to 1:39:02.640 --> 1:39:05.840 a specific issue, they initially create through struggle the necessary 1:39:05.880 --> 1:39:09.559 conditions and contexts for it. What Abdul Ojiland does is 1:39:09.600 --> 1:39:12.560 to set the context and to encourage all related circles 1:39:12.600 --> 1:39:16.200 in Turkey to take upon their responsibility for our lasting peace. 1:39:16.880 --> 1:39:18.519 And then I wanted to ask about the people who 1:39:18.560 --> 1:39:21.200 are incarcerated and like the steps that they needed from 1:39:21.200 --> 1:39:24.120 the Turkish state in order for this peace process to continue. 1:39:24.439 --> 1:39:27.920 And this is what they said. A historic initiative was 1:39:28.000 --> 1:39:30.799 taken by Curdish People's Leader Abdula Aujilan and the PKK. 1:39:31.320 --> 1:39:33.599 First of all, there was the publication of the quote 1:39:33.600 --> 1:39:36.959 call for Peace and democratic Society and quote on February 1:39:36.960 --> 1:39:40.400 twenty sevenths. Then there was a declaration of the unilateral 1:39:40.439 --> 1:39:43.240 ceasefire on March first, and now there was the twelve 1:39:43.360 --> 1:39:46.360 PKK Congress May fifth to seventh was a decision to 1:39:46.360 --> 1:39:49.879 dissolve the PKK. All of those steps were unilateral steps 1:39:49.920 --> 1:39:52.200 that were not the result of negotiations with the state. 1:39:52.760 --> 1:39:55.080 So far, no official negotiations to take a place, and 1:39:55.120 --> 1:39:58.519 the original verbal agreements have been reached. The steps taken 1:39:58.720 --> 1:40:02.559 were only assign goodwill and expression of seriousness about peace. 1:40:03.080 --> 1:40:05.160 Now it is upon the Turkish state to answer to 1:40:05.200 --> 1:40:08.960 this initiative and take the first practical legal steps. So far, 1:40:09.040 --> 1:40:11.439 all we have seen is empty rhetoric. For the process 1:40:11.439 --> 1:40:15.000 to actually unfold, Kurdish People's leader Abdullah Oujelan must first 1:40:15.120 --> 1:40:18.000 of all, regain his physical freedom, and the conditions for 1:40:18.120 --> 1:40:21.800 him to work freely, healthily and securely must be guaranteed 1:40:21.920 --> 1:40:23.800 so that he can fulfill his role as a chief 1:40:23.840 --> 1:40:27.519 negotiator of the Kurdish people. Also, the constitutional reforms that 1:40:27.560 --> 1:40:29.920 grant the basic rights of the Kurds and recognize him 1:40:29.920 --> 1:40:32.360 as one of the primary constituents of a republic must 1:40:32.400 --> 1:40:36.280 take place now. These are the first necessary steps. From 1:40:36.320 --> 1:40:40.599 there a peace process can unfold. If you're wondering about Rajava, 1:40:40.720 --> 1:40:43.800 just to finish up, Muslumabdi made a statement a Slumubdi, 1:40:44.320 --> 1:40:47.840 leader of the Syrian Democratic Forces Right, sometimes called General 1:40:47.880 --> 1:40:52.160 muslium Hova Muslum depends who depends what side of things 1:40:52.160 --> 1:40:55.280 you're on, I guess. Muslum Abdi made a statement congratulating 1:40:55.320 --> 1:40:57.760 the PKKA, saying he hoped to all parties supported the 1:40:57.800 --> 1:41:02.599 peace process. The SDF is still in clashes with remnants 1:41:02.600 --> 1:41:07.520 of the so called Islamic State and increasingly with Sunnis 1:41:07.560 --> 1:41:11.840 within the Syrian Revolution who are growing disheartened with what 1:41:11.960 --> 1:41:16.000 they see as al Shara's moderate turn right, the Damascus 1:41:16.000 --> 1:41:21.320 government being to lib for some of these Sunni groups, 1:41:21.439 --> 1:41:24.920 and so isis the Islamic State, whatever you want to 1:41:24.960 --> 1:41:27.280 call it. Dash is using that as a chance to 1:41:27.520 --> 1:41:31.679 recruit people, and that is why we are seeing ongoing fighting. 1:41:31.960 --> 1:41:34.400 I literally I saw that they were they were burying 1:41:34.439 --> 1:41:38.280 one of their SDF fighters in Kamishlow today. 1:41:38.000 --> 1:41:38.080 Ye. 1:41:38.479 --> 1:41:42.800 So unfortunately for the people who a fra Java, the 1:41:43.160 --> 1:41:46.760 killing and dying continues, which, yes, it's sad, yes, yeah, 1:41:46.880 --> 1:41:48.920 I want peace for my friends there and in Burma. 1:41:49.080 --> 1:41:52.040 Like yeah, despite the fact that Robert and I get 1:41:52.120 --> 1:41:54.360 paid to go to wars sometimes, it doesn't mean we 1:41:54.400 --> 1:41:56.160 don't want a friends to live in peace. Yeah. 1:41:56.160 --> 1:41:57.960 I would like there to not be any more to 1:41:58.000 --> 1:41:58.200 go to. 1:41:58.320 --> 1:41:59.080 Yeah, that would be great. 1:41:59.320 --> 1:42:01.400 I'll find something else to do. Yeah, fuck it, I'll 1:42:01.439 --> 1:42:03.400 go run with the bulls again. I went White Rotter 1:42:03.520 --> 1:42:05.960 rafting yesterday. It was nice. I could just do more 1:42:06.000 --> 1:42:06.200 of that. 1:42:06.560 --> 1:42:08.639 Yeah yeah, no o, well climb yeah, you know. 1:42:08.880 --> 1:42:13.000 All right, everybody We're done for the day. Go hopefully 1:42:13.040 --> 1:42:14.840 not live in a war zone. But if you do, 1:42:15.040 --> 1:42:17.120 hopefully that stops so peace. 1:42:30.920 --> 1:42:34.000 Welcome to it could happen here show about things falling apart, 1:42:34.520 --> 1:42:39.400 and today the thing falling apart is the Galactic Empire. 1:42:40.080 --> 1:42:43.800 This is episode four of our four part series talking 1:42:43.840 --> 1:42:48.040 about the politics of and Or Season two. And Or 1:42:48.120 --> 1:42:50.599 has sadly come to a close. This will be our 1:42:50.640 --> 1:42:55.960 final discussion episode talking about and season two episodes ten, eleven, 1:42:56.160 --> 1:43:00.479 and twelve. I'm Garrison Davis. I'm joined by Robert and 1:43:00.520 --> 1:43:05.200 Mio Wong. What a what a exhilarating For four weeks 1:43:05.200 --> 1:43:05.720 this has been. 1:43:06.360 --> 1:43:07.320 Yeah, I'm gonna miss it. 1:43:08.080 --> 1:43:11.160 Yeah, we're we're getting relief from the horrors to live 1:43:11.280 --> 1:43:12.879 the horrors in another universe. 1:43:13.800 --> 1:43:14.000 Yeah. 1:43:14.080 --> 1:43:15.960 No, it's sucks now that that we have to just 1:43:16.040 --> 1:43:19.320 do all this stuff, except like the eight years in 1:43:19.360 --> 1:43:22.240 the past version, because the level in which they've advanced 1:43:22.280 --> 1:43:27.440 here is far beyond certainly the US's revolutionary potential. 1:43:27.920 --> 1:43:30.240 Alas Yes, tragic. 1:43:30.520 --> 1:43:33.760 Hey, if anyone wants to be our mom mofbud taken applications, 1:43:34.160 --> 1:43:36.599 you you you could, you can be the good liberal. 1:43:36.880 --> 1:43:37.439 You can be it. 1:43:37.520 --> 1:43:40.639 Oh Man I'll take a fucking Kraeger at this point. 1:43:45.280 --> 1:43:47.160 So I think we're gonna do these episodes a little 1:43:47.160 --> 1:43:50.480 bit differently. I'm not going to do a whole synopsis 1:43:50.479 --> 1:43:53.120 for each of these episodes, since for these last three 1:43:53.160 --> 1:43:56.720 the show has mostly a shwed plot for emotional and 1:43:56.800 --> 1:43:59.559 character beats, So instead, I want to quickly go over 1:43:59.680 --> 1:44:02.839 each of those character points and then we can discuss 1:44:02.880 --> 1:44:06.439 those in detail, and most of our discussion will probably 1:44:06.479 --> 1:44:11.400 be around episode ten. Make it stop, yep. Let's start 1:44:11.439 --> 1:44:14.080 at the beginning Lonnie's last meeting. 1:44:14.560 --> 1:44:14.800 Ah. 1:44:14.960 --> 1:44:18.639 Yeah, So the ICP double agent Lonnie Young calls Luthen 1:44:18.680 --> 1:44:20.880 to an emergency meeting to give him one final batch 1:44:20.920 --> 1:44:26.439 of intel after burning his cover. It's really shocking and 1:44:26.520 --> 1:44:30.320 worrying when we see Luthen and Lonnie meeting in public. 1:44:30.360 --> 1:44:32.800 That that that already lets you know like, oh, this 1:44:32.880 --> 1:44:36.120 is like this is the end. This is stuff is 1:44:36.200 --> 1:44:38.680 like the most jover it's ever been for Lonnie. 1:44:39.120 --> 1:44:41.040 There's a great line they got one of the strongest 1:44:41.080 --> 1:44:43.639 reactions with the folks I was watching it with when 1:44:44.640 --> 1:44:46.920 Luthan's about to head out and he's talking with Claya 1:44:47.080 --> 1:44:49.160 and she's like, don't do this. 1:44:49.240 --> 1:44:49.519 Meeting. 1:44:49.560 --> 1:44:51.880 If it doesn't look perfect, we don't engage. 1:44:52.200 --> 1:44:54.640 Yeah, and Luthen responds, I think we've used up all 1:44:54.680 --> 1:44:55.160 the perfect. 1:44:56.080 --> 1:44:58.240 If you're stuff all the perfect. 1:44:58.840 --> 1:45:01.520 It's this, it's this really good. There's some very impressive 1:45:01.560 --> 1:45:04.760 like face acting from Scar's guard here where you you 1:45:04.880 --> 1:45:07.680 see he's There's so much he wants to say to 1:45:07.760 --> 1:45:10.599 this person, who, as we'll discuss, is essentially his daughter. 1:45:11.240 --> 1:45:14.480 But ultimately all that happens is she says, Tucky Shirtan. 1:45:15.520 --> 1:45:16.240 It's insane. 1:45:16.600 --> 1:45:17.680 Yeah. 1:45:17.720 --> 1:45:20.479 So he meets with Lonnie. Lonnie needs like assurances for 1:45:20.600 --> 1:45:23.719 like him and his family's safety. Luthen tells them that 1:45:23.840 --> 1:45:30.360 they'll be able to flee to Yavin together. Sure, sure, buddy. Yeah. So, 1:45:30.640 --> 1:45:33.960 by accessing Deadro's computer files, Lonnie learns that the Emperor's 1:45:34.000 --> 1:45:37.240 new energy project, the Calcite mining on Gorman the kyber 1:45:37.280 --> 1:45:40.400 On Jetta are actually part of a massive super weapon. 1:45:41.160 --> 1:45:43.799 Luthn is warned that Dedra and the ISB are preparing 1:45:43.840 --> 1:45:45.680 for a raid on corus On and he may be 1:45:45.840 --> 1:45:49.960 the target. Luthen ends up killing Lonnie to tie up 1:45:50.040 --> 1:45:52.479 loose ends and passes off the information to Claya to 1:45:52.560 --> 1:45:55.320 relay it to the Rebel Alliance while he goes to 1:45:55.439 --> 1:45:58.840 thermite their computer hard drive, saying yeah, he quotes, I'll 1:45:58.840 --> 1:46:02.800 do the burn again. It's it's it's jover like our 1:46:03.080 --> 1:46:05.680 our shop, our little home, our little base of operations 1:46:05.680 --> 1:46:10.320 in Coruscant. Yeah, is getting destroyed. This is this is 1:46:10.560 --> 1:46:11.679 truly the end of an era. 1:46:11.800 --> 1:46:12.080 Here. 1:46:13.080 --> 1:46:16.240 Luthin either knows or has like decided that he has 1:46:16.320 --> 1:46:18.400 run out of time, and the only way to be 1:46:18.520 --> 1:46:22.680 sure that the information safely reaches the Alliance is to 1:46:22.840 --> 1:46:26.400 give the ISB a distraction, and that distraction is himself. 1:46:26.920 --> 1:46:30.280 Yeah, and again it's very consistent. He's clearly trying to 1:46:30.400 --> 1:46:33.559 buy time for Claya to escape, right like, that's that's 1:46:33.760 --> 1:46:36.040 part part of his purpose here. Yeah, and I think 1:46:36.080 --> 1:46:40.679 he's also just done, you know, totally, he's done. He's 1:46:40.760 --> 1:46:43.360 tired and he doesn't have it in him to run anymore. 1:46:43.600 --> 1:46:45.960 And that's kind of what he discusses in this next section, 1:46:46.120 --> 1:46:50.080 which is such an efficient piece of screenwriting. When Dedra 1:46:50.240 --> 1:46:54.200 arrives at Luthern's gallery, Yeah, you can you can only 1:46:54.280 --> 1:46:57.719 hide in play insight for so long, and that time 1:46:57.760 --> 1:47:03.280 has come. As as dead Roel arrives, Lusen says, here 1:47:03.320 --> 1:47:08.960 you are at last, uh huh. Every line in their exchange, 1:47:09.120 --> 1:47:11.800 like but before before she lets him know, like hey, 1:47:11.840 --> 1:47:13.639 I know you are, Like but like every line leading 1:47:13.720 --> 1:47:15.960 up to that is a double entendre, like like every 1:47:16.040 --> 1:47:20.000 single exchange they have is actually communicating something else and 1:47:20.040 --> 1:47:24.920 it's wild. Forgery is the sad curse of antiquities. At 1:47:24.920 --> 1:47:29.400 the moment, only two pieces of questionable providence in the gallery. 1:47:29.360 --> 1:47:31.120 Yea insane stuff. 1:47:31.320 --> 1:47:34.720 It's great, it's insane writing, and it's it's perfect that 1:47:34.880 --> 1:47:37.880 like she keeps trying to like get some sort of 1:47:38.000 --> 1:47:41.200 acknowledgment that she's one. That's all she wants out of 1:47:41.200 --> 1:47:44.080 this is for him to basically she's actually kind of 1:47:44.080 --> 1:47:46.400 desperate for him to say you did good, kid, you 1:47:46.520 --> 1:47:49.519 cos it's crazy and all he does is through shade at. 1:47:49.439 --> 1:47:53.480 Her, like shit, sucker, villions. 1:47:53.080 --> 1:47:57.240 Arelready gone, you dip shit fascist, like you fucking failed 1:47:57.280 --> 1:48:00.240 to fl like referring to him elf. 1:48:00.280 --> 1:48:03.600 And in some ways her as like as an antiquity, 1:48:03.720 --> 1:48:05.720 like like like you said, like he is tired, he 1:48:05.800 --> 1:48:08.160 is done. He is he's kind of a relic for 1:48:08.360 --> 1:48:09.919 the current era of the rebellions. 1:48:09.960 --> 1:48:11.640 And you don't know it yet, but so are you. 1:48:12.240 --> 1:48:15.599 Yes, and so is so is her. Only two pieces 1:48:15.640 --> 1:48:20.240 of questionable providence are in the gallery. Amazing. So Luthen 1:48:20.320 --> 1:48:23.240 hands Dedra a ceremonial dagger. She asks if it's real. 1:48:23.680 --> 1:48:29.240 He smiles and remarks, we still don't know. And it's like, 1:48:29.520 --> 1:48:33.880 it's amazing. I get every single line. It's it's it's 1:48:34.439 --> 1:48:37.240 it's like this screenwriter's play with us just amazing. I 1:48:37.240 --> 1:48:40.800 think Tom Bisseol and Tony Gilroy uh for these episodes. 1:48:41.000 --> 1:48:46.040 Just phenomenal. Dedra. Now I'm nervous, Luthed, you've come all 1:48:46.080 --> 1:48:50.640 this way. And then she unveils this, this artifact that 1:48:50.680 --> 1:48:53.400 she is brought to Luthen for evaluation. She says, it's 1:48:53.439 --> 1:48:56.679 a little damaged perhaps, but I'd say it's held its value, 1:48:56.880 --> 1:48:59.559 as she looks Luthen up and down again, same thing again, 1:48:59.760 --> 1:49:03.200 singing very efficient. Luthen is a little damage, but he 1:49:03.200 --> 1:49:07.200 has held his value. And Dedra reveals the vintage Imperial 1:49:07.200 --> 1:49:11.719 StarPath unit that first brought Luthen's operation under Dedra's eye. 1:49:12.600 --> 1:49:15.719 And now that like both of them have their cards 1:49:15.760 --> 1:49:19.120 like displayed on the table, they get to exchange a 1:49:19.120 --> 1:49:21.920 little bit more clearly without having to use these like 1:49:22.040 --> 1:49:26.080 coded coded phrases like they were before, and they had 1:49:26.080 --> 1:49:29.200 this fascinating back and forth. She talks about how Luthan's 1:49:29.240 --> 1:49:32.320 been hiding in the shelter of imperial peace and quiet 1:49:32.320 --> 1:49:35.719 and just wants to burn the galaxy down, and Luthan 1:49:35.760 --> 1:49:39.040 gets gets to poke at her for how he's been 1:49:39.080 --> 1:49:42.479 aware of her this entire time and she's only learned 1:49:42.479 --> 1:49:46.599 who he is. Quote, I've known you all along. Hardly 1:49:46.680 --> 1:49:50.840 seems fair. She says, you disgusted me everything you stand for, 1:49:51.200 --> 1:49:54.600 and he says, do you know why freedom scares you? 1:49:55.160 --> 1:49:57.240 This is what Dedra's last arc is like really about, 1:49:57.240 --> 1:50:00.920 and it eventually, you know, paradoxically leads to leads to 1:50:01.000 --> 1:50:01.479 her fate. 1:50:02.120 --> 1:50:02.240 Now. 1:50:02.240 --> 1:50:05.280 I think probably the best line in this little exchange 1:50:05.439 --> 1:50:08.719 is Luthan telling Deadrea, quote, you're too late. The rebellion 1:50:08.800 --> 1:50:12.760 isn't here anymore. It's flown away. It's everywhere. Now there's 1:50:12.800 --> 1:50:15.479 a whole galaxy out there waiting to disgust you. 1:50:15.640 --> 1:50:21.120 Great light. Yeah again, it's' he's this whole time, he's 1:50:21.160 --> 1:50:24.000 been like increasingly cooking her like. 1:50:25.000 --> 1:50:27.640 And also cooking his hard drive by time that's his 1:50:27.720 --> 1:50:28.800 heart drive burns up. 1:50:29.240 --> 1:50:32.320 Yeah, yeah, I mean it's just it's just some great 1:50:32.640 --> 1:50:35.080 some great stuff and the Dedro we get some great 1:50:35.120 --> 1:50:37.960 face acting. Oh yeah from what is it? Denise is 1:50:38.000 --> 1:50:38.519 her name? Right? 1:50:38.800 --> 1:50:39.120 Yeah? 1:50:39.200 --> 1:50:42.200 Gow I think where you just see in a second, 1:50:42.240 --> 1:50:45.320 she sees the smoke and then Luthan collapses because he 1:50:45.360 --> 1:50:49.000 has stabbed himself in the heart, which is also like 1:50:49.080 --> 1:50:51.679 it serves as another kind of rappost to every argument 1:50:51.720 --> 1:50:55.040 that she's been making, like it's his ultimate counter to 1:50:55.439 --> 1:50:58.840 her claims that like you're fundamentally selfish, You're just doing 1:50:58.880 --> 1:51:02.360 this for yourself and your own you know, desire chaos. 1:51:02.560 --> 1:51:05.760 He's like, no, bitch, I'm gonna stab myself in the heart, 1:51:06.680 --> 1:51:08.800 Like you don't know what commitment is. 1:51:09.240 --> 1:51:09.719 It's great. 1:51:09.760 --> 1:51:13.439 Yeah, he uses this, uses this ceremonial dagger that he 1:51:14.080 --> 1:51:17.280 that he earlier hands to Dedra and stabs himself so 1:51:17.320 --> 1:51:19.040 that the Empire will be able to torture and try 1:51:19.080 --> 1:51:21.679 to extract information from him about the rebellion. 1:51:21.880 --> 1:51:24.360 But you gotta have some explosives, like you can't be 1:51:24.439 --> 1:51:26.920 relying on staggering yourself with me dagger. 1:51:27.240 --> 1:51:30.519 This is this is like a screenwriting thing, like det 1:51:30.720 --> 1:51:32.519 has to get out of this. They have to they 1:51:32.560 --> 1:51:36.439 have to access the computer later. Come on, I think 1:51:36.479 --> 1:51:40.360 I think this is this is very like poetically written. Yeah, yeah, 1:51:40.560 --> 1:51:42.799 you know, it's it's beautiful. I like like the romance 1:51:42.840 --> 1:51:46.800 of it. Yeah, but man, Dedra fucked up so bad here. 1:51:47.560 --> 1:51:51.080 Yeah, fundamentally ruins absolutely her entire life. 1:51:51.360 --> 1:51:54.080 The emotion's really got the better of her. She really 1:51:54.120 --> 1:51:57.080 wanted to like like win one over on on access 1:51:57.120 --> 1:52:00.439 to like validate herself and her obsession. This we like 1:52:00.520 --> 1:52:03.599 Cyril does, and it fucking bites her in the ass. 1:52:03.960 --> 1:52:07.600 It destroys the empires, the entire empire. 1:52:07.920 --> 1:52:13.320 Yeah. Yeah, I like that they they had her simultaneously. 1:52:14.040 --> 1:52:17.240 She's both right and that if she had been listened to, 1:52:17.400 --> 1:52:21.320 she could have stopped the rebel victory. But also she 1:52:22.240 --> 1:52:26.160 fundamentally like destroys the Death Star as a result of 1:52:26.160 --> 1:52:28.040 her insistence on being right. 1:52:30.479 --> 1:52:34.200 It fits into that old Marxist category of objectively revolutionary. 1:52:34.320 --> 1:52:35.760 Yeah, just by like. 1:52:35.840 --> 1:52:38.719 How she fucked this up specifically, and. 1:52:39.000 --> 1:52:42.120 Yeah, get to well, you know, I think we've talked 1:52:42.160 --> 1:52:45.000 about how how like the Death Star plans got stolen 1:52:45.080 --> 1:52:48.040 like from her fucking art, right, Yeah. 1:52:47.640 --> 1:52:50.000 Or like the the the learning of the Death Star 1:52:50.520 --> 1:52:52.240 existence through the hard. 1:52:52.120 --> 1:52:54.080 Oh yeah, sorry, said yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, they 1:52:54.080 --> 1:52:55.080 don't have the plans yet. 1:52:55.560 --> 1:52:59.680 Yeah, So Lutheran's transferred to the hospital, and then we 1:52:59.760 --> 1:53:03.719 get a flashback with Luthin as an early Imperial Army 1:53:03.760 --> 1:53:08.320 sergeant involved in a massacre on Claya's home planet. We 1:53:08.400 --> 1:53:12.320 see him like like huddled over in his ship with 1:53:12.360 --> 1:53:15.280 a flask, repeating the words make. 1:53:15.120 --> 1:53:17.560 It, make it stop, make it stop. 1:53:17.560 --> 1:53:21.280 As like sounds of like carnage and destruction go on 1:53:21.400 --> 1:53:22.200 in the background. 1:53:22.479 --> 1:53:24.599 What's what's interesting to me is, yeah, they have You're 1:53:24.640 --> 1:53:27.479 basically just hearing what's happening outside. He's in an Imperial 1:53:27.600 --> 1:53:31.120 Army uniform, and you're hearing like radio chatter, and it's 1:53:31.240 --> 1:53:33.679 radio chatter that could have come from like any war 1:53:33.720 --> 1:53:36.360 of the last twenty years. Like it's very much modern 1:53:36.680 --> 1:53:39.160 radio call. It's it sounds like a lot of the 1:53:39.200 --> 1:53:42.800 shit you heard and like the Collateral Murder video, like 1:53:43.040 --> 1:53:45.040 some of the stuff that got leaked by Chelsea Manning 1:53:45.080 --> 1:53:47.680 where people are like, yeah, hit every everything on that 1:53:47.760 --> 1:53:51.160 hill dies, you know, anything past this this point in 1:53:51.200 --> 1:53:53.559 this like line of buildings, anyone you see on the 1:53:53.600 --> 1:53:56.719 heat scope, kill them, Like it's that kind of stuff, right, Yeah, 1:53:56.760 --> 1:53:59.760 And it's it's it's very much like it's very non 1:53:59.800 --> 1:54:00.880 st Our Wars chatter. 1:54:01.320 --> 1:54:04.080 You know, he's he's like horrified at like what he's doing. 1:54:04.120 --> 1:54:05.640 He's trying to findst to cope with it. 1:54:05.880 --> 1:54:09.120 He's drinking out of a flask and yeah, just like 1:54:09.840 --> 1:54:12.360 repeatedly repeating to himself, make it stop. 1:54:13.080 --> 1:54:16.639 Just this like very short scene like recontextualizes a whole 1:54:16.680 --> 1:54:20.160 bunch of things about Luthern's character, Yes, including his behavior 1:54:20.320 --> 1:54:23.360 on Ferrex during during the riot, where he like doesn't 1:54:23.360 --> 1:54:26.720 get involved and instead looks on from a distance with 1:54:26.840 --> 1:54:30.240 like a very like a very blank expression. And like 1:54:30.640 --> 1:54:34.120 when I first saw that episode, to me, it felt 1:54:34.160 --> 1:54:38.600 like Luthen was like first confronted with like the fatality 1:54:38.640 --> 1:54:41.280 that he's dealing with, like like confronted with like the 1:54:41.320 --> 1:54:46.040 consequences for actually engaging in revolution because he's always been 1:54:46.160 --> 1:54:47.880 kind of in the shadows. He's been more of this 1:54:47.960 --> 1:54:51.280 like orchestrator. He doesn't see like that like the tactile 1:54:51.960 --> 1:54:56.160 death that accompanies his actions. It's like that's how I 1:54:56.160 --> 1:54:58.560 first saw that scene, and now this has been fully 1:54:58.560 --> 1:55:02.000 recontextualized as like Eric's is like a PTSD moment for him, 1:55:02.040 --> 1:55:04.560 Like this is that's that's not the first time he's 1:55:04.600 --> 1:55:05.320 seeing combat. 1:55:05.440 --> 1:55:06.000 Yes, this is. 1:55:06.240 --> 1:55:08.920 This is it changes the way you can now look 1:55:09.000 --> 1:55:11.360 back at that scene, which is very very cool. 1:55:11.600 --> 1:55:14.480 Yeah, and it's also interesting to think that he's putting 1:55:14.520 --> 1:55:17.160 himself in the perspective as much as anything of the 1:55:17.160 --> 1:55:21.240 imperials doing the massacre. Yes, yeah, as opposed to the 1:55:21.280 --> 1:55:24.960 civilian victims of the massacre. I read an interview with 1:55:25.200 --> 1:55:29.440 Tony where apparently because they did not have Lutheran's backstory 1:55:29.600 --> 1:55:32.600 set up in season one, like they didn't fully know 1:55:32.680 --> 1:55:33.840 where he was going to go and. 1:55:33.960 --> 1:55:35.200 Have a single one nail Yeah. 1:55:35.480 --> 1:55:38.560 Yeah, And it was apparently Scarsguard who was like, don't 1:55:38.800 --> 1:55:41.880 have him be another person who's pissed, like who just 1:55:41.920 --> 1:55:44.840 hates the Empire because it took everything from him, like like. 1:55:44.880 --> 1:55:47.200 A normal revenge story where like the Empire like tells 1:55:47.200 --> 1:55:49.400 his family so that he becomes an insurgent. 1:55:49.520 --> 1:55:52.720 Yeah yeah, yeah, and I really I think it's beautiful that, like, yeah, 1:55:52.720 --> 1:55:56.080 his backstory is that, no, he was made complicit. Like however, 1:55:56.160 --> 1:55:58.640 whatever got him into the army in the first place, 1:55:58.680 --> 1:56:01.200 maybe just conscription. He may not have even had a 1:56:01.280 --> 1:56:04.920 choice to join, but the Empire forces him to do, 1:56:05.080 --> 1:56:07.680 like puts him in a position and he's it's as 1:56:07.760 --> 1:56:10.360 much discussed with himself that he goes along with it 1:56:10.400 --> 1:56:13.720 as far as he does. And you get in those 1:56:13.840 --> 1:56:16.360 lines that he's just repeating him to himself over and 1:56:16.400 --> 1:56:18.600 over again as he like make it Like that's his 1:56:18.680 --> 1:56:21.680 whole motivation, right, Like that's the next twenty years of 1:56:21.680 --> 1:56:23.520 his life. Are him trying to make it stop? 1:56:23.840 --> 1:56:26.360 Yeah, that's the title of the episode. Yeah, well we'll 1:56:26.400 --> 1:56:28.440 talk more about that and his motivation at the end 1:56:28.480 --> 1:56:31.880 when we discuss kind of Claya, speaking of which, in 1:56:31.920 --> 1:56:34.480 this flashback, it is shot from the perspective of Claya 1:56:35.080 --> 1:56:38.400 hiding in like a cubby on on this ship. Yeah, 1:56:38.920 --> 1:56:43.760 and Luthen named I think Layer Lar which is Lair. 1:56:44.520 --> 1:56:49.720 He is Sergeant Lair is original name. Well, we don't 1:56:49.720 --> 1:56:51.560 know what his first was, but he just reverses it. 1:56:51.680 --> 1:56:55.080 Yeah, which no, no, but like this is this is 1:56:55.200 --> 1:56:58.640 this is also like poetic, right, this is this is 1:56:58.720 --> 1:57:01.480 this is this is Star Wars poeoetry, right, it's like 1:57:01.520 --> 1:57:03.600 poetry at rhymes popseek wise. 1:57:03.640 --> 1:57:04.120 Don't do that. 1:57:05.000 --> 1:57:06.400 I just I just got to put this in there. 1:57:06.640 --> 1:57:07.160 Don't do that. 1:57:08.640 --> 1:57:12.640 Do better. But Sergeant Layer finds Claya as like a 1:57:12.720 --> 1:57:16.160 six year old hiding hiding on this ship. We then 1:57:16.200 --> 1:57:18.760 go back to the present as Claya infiltrates a space 1:57:18.840 --> 1:57:23.120 hospital to get to Luthen. Intercut with flashbacks showing how 1:57:23.360 --> 1:57:28.080 Luthen used his military experience to train Claya in insurgent warfare. 1:57:29.160 --> 1:57:32.200 So here we see like Luthen being kept alive in 1:57:32.280 --> 1:57:37.240 this Corroiscant hospital for later interrogation, and then suddenly Dedra 1:57:37.440 --> 1:57:41.080 is arrested in the hospital by an ISB. Marshall for 1:57:41.360 --> 1:57:44.440 at first unclear reasons which we will get into later. 1:57:44.720 --> 1:57:47.800 The ICP has found Lonnie's body, so there's a dead 1:57:47.880 --> 1:57:52.000 yes B agent in Cororriscant. They've heard of how Dedra 1:57:52.080 --> 1:57:55.560 did this raid without authorization without notifying the agent now 1:57:55.560 --> 1:57:59.120 in charge of the Axis investigation, and then she's taken 1:57:59.120 --> 1:58:02.280 into custody. In these flashbacks, we see Luthen and Clia 1:58:02.480 --> 1:58:07.839 going town to town pawning historical artifacts while he teaches 1:58:07.920 --> 1:58:11.800 young Claya insurgent warfare. One of the most devastating exchanges 1:58:11.880 --> 1:58:15.840 is when Luthen describes Claia as his daughter to a 1:58:15.880 --> 1:58:20.440 shopkeeper to help like negotiate a price, and afterwards Claya asks, 1:58:20.680 --> 1:58:25.480 am I your daughter now? He replies when it's useful. 1:58:25.440 --> 1:58:28.920 Yeah, she's and then he and then he says, I'm Luthen, 1:58:29.000 --> 1:58:33.320 you're Clia. Like that's all we need to know right now, 1:58:33.720 --> 1:58:34.920 that that's. 1:58:34.760 --> 1:58:35.400 Who we are now. 1:58:35.720 --> 1:58:36.720 Yeah. 1:58:36.920 --> 1:58:39.160 Claia says, like, I'll have to think about that, and 1:58:39.200 --> 1:58:41.760 Luthen says, sometimes it's not up to us. 1:58:42.400 --> 1:58:42.800 Yeah. 1:58:42.920 --> 1:58:47.800 Another exchange happens after Claio watches this like Imperial firing 1:58:47.880 --> 1:58:52.800 line kill a batch of kids who are allegedly suspected 1:58:52.880 --> 1:58:56.480 of shooting a stormtrooper. I think it probably could have 1:58:56.560 --> 1:58:59.840 actually been Luthen, It's unclear, and it essentially just demonstrates 1:58:59.880 --> 1:59:04.600 like collective punishment, right, And Claiya gets very upset at 1:59:04.680 --> 1:59:09.320 watching this massacre and runs off to Luthen and also, 1:59:09.400 --> 1:59:11.560 like interestingly, like when Luthen knows that this is going 1:59:11.640 --> 1:59:13.800 to happen, he like chooses to like not watch. He's like, 1:59:13.800 --> 1:59:15.640 we don't need to be here, we can we can, 1:59:15.720 --> 1:59:18.040 we can just leave, but but Claia chooses to stay 1:59:18.040 --> 1:59:22.240 and watch and then runs back to him, and he 1:59:22.240 --> 1:59:25.800 he tells her we fight to win. That means we 1:59:25.960 --> 1:59:29.120 lose and lose and lose and lose until we're ready. 1:59:29.560 --> 1:59:31.880 All you know now is how much you hate you 1:59:32.000 --> 1:59:35.200 bank that you hide, that you keep it alive until 1:59:35.240 --> 1:59:36.680 you know what to do with it. 1:59:37.200 --> 1:59:41.760 Yeah, and I love both that. He's he's attempting to 1:59:41.880 --> 1:59:44.760 give her as much like agency as he can within 1:59:44.840 --> 1:59:49.440 this situation where he's also like crafting her into a person. 1:59:49.520 --> 1:59:51.320 And so like, if she decides she wants to go 1:59:51.320 --> 1:59:53.600 see this massacre, He'll let her do it. Like he's 1:59:53.640 --> 1:59:56.040 not going to he's not going to try to make her. 1:59:56.320 --> 1:59:57.840 But if that's what she wants, he's not going to 1:59:57.880 --> 2:00:00.480 stop her. And then when she's seeing what she needs 2:00:00.520 --> 2:00:02.720 to see, he's going to give her the best advice 2:00:02.760 --> 2:00:06.080 that he can give her. There's another line coming where's 2:00:06.440 --> 2:00:08.960 she asks if he's scared, and he's like, only about 2:00:08.960 --> 2:00:12.240 what I'm doing to you, right that like you, But 2:00:12.360 --> 2:00:15.120 he is still deeply he feels deeply compromised by this 2:00:15.160 --> 2:00:18.400 position he's put himself in with this only other person 2:00:18.440 --> 2:00:19.960 that he really can trust. 2:00:20.440 --> 2:00:20.800 Yeah. 2:00:20.880 --> 2:00:24.080 They do their first like large scale direct action together. Yeah, 2:00:24.120 --> 2:00:27.320 on the Emperor's home planet of Naboo. He teaches her 2:00:27.360 --> 2:00:29.640 how to blend into the surroundings as they remote debt 2:00:29.720 --> 2:00:33.760 night and explosive planted on a bridge, while in the present, 2:00:33.880 --> 2:00:36.840 Clia disguises herself as a nurse to disappear into the 2:00:36.880 --> 2:00:39.680 hospital where Luthern's being held, and blows up the hospital 2:00:39.720 --> 2:00:41.840 parking lot as a distraction to get to Lutheran. These 2:00:41.840 --> 2:00:44.720 two things mirror each other. It's like poetry at rhymes. 2:00:45.040 --> 2:00:49.280 Clia says to Luthin, you're afraid, He says, I'm only 2:00:49.320 --> 2:00:52.440 afraid of what I'm doing to you, as he hands 2:00:52.480 --> 2:00:55.200 this child a detonator. Yeah. 2:00:55.320 --> 2:00:59.120 Man, she's not willing to she can't make herself use 2:00:59.160 --> 2:00:59.600 it yet. 2:00:59.680 --> 2:01:02.280 I mean, I feel like she was almost willing to 2:01:02.560 --> 2:01:05.400 psych herself up. Luth and actually took it away and 2:01:06.120 --> 2:01:07.360 had himself do it. 2:01:07.920 --> 2:01:08.400 Yeah. 2:01:08.760 --> 2:01:11.200 But that scene by itself where he's like telling her 2:01:11.360 --> 2:01:13.080 not to like look at it, to make sure you're 2:01:13.120 --> 2:01:16.240 like looking at me, only turn after everyone else has turned. 2:01:16.720 --> 2:01:19.320 Very fun stuff happening in Star Wars. 2:01:19.760 --> 2:01:23.560 Yeah, it's it's it's great, Like the whole the decision 2:01:23.640 --> 2:01:27.160 he made he makes here is like, like you see 2:01:27.160 --> 2:01:30.560 a lot about their relationship and again this like how 2:01:30.600 --> 2:01:33.960 deeply compromised he feels by it. Of both, like I 2:01:34.040 --> 2:01:37.040 have to get this person ready for what's necessary. And 2:01:37.080 --> 2:01:40.680 also I have to protect her from like the worst 2:01:40.720 --> 2:01:42.840 things that we're going to have to do together. Like, 2:01:42.880 --> 2:01:46.920 he does want to remain primarily the one complicit, so 2:01:47.200 --> 2:01:51.000 I think in part because he does believe, I mean fundamentally, 2:01:51.040 --> 2:01:53.160 that's the core of his character. He does believe she 2:01:53.240 --> 2:01:54.840 has a future outside. 2:01:54.480 --> 2:01:58.040 Totally is That's the entire point of what he's doing. Yeah, 2:01:58.160 --> 2:02:00.160 do you know what else is necessary, Robert. 2:02:00.160 --> 2:02:02.920 For us to throw to ads because otherwise we can't 2:02:03.000 --> 2:02:10.080 keep this moveable feast on the road. 2:02:15.040 --> 2:02:20.840 Okay, we are back back in the present day on Corussant. 2:02:21.360 --> 2:02:27.160 Claia finally reaches Luthen in his hospital room, and I guess, 2:02:27.160 --> 2:02:29.840 like leading up to this, to this moment, it's unclear 2:02:29.880 --> 2:02:32.440 if she's going to try to like rescue him, like 2:02:32.440 --> 2:02:35.640 like extract him, and no, there's no time for that. 2:02:36.200 --> 2:02:39.280 She takes him off life support and lets him die. 2:02:39.680 --> 2:02:43.360 There is no escape for his character. Yeah, Like Luthen 2:02:43.560 --> 2:02:47.000 never gets to see that sunrise, but he did everything 2:02:47.040 --> 2:02:50.600 he could to give the rebellion the best chance, and 2:02:50.680 --> 2:02:53.720 Claia gets to finish and like live out what he started. 2:02:54.080 --> 2:02:56.880 He wants to give Claia that sunrise and like this 2:02:56.880 --> 2:03:00.400 this relates to his core motivation as a character. He's 2:03:00.400 --> 2:03:03.280 not getting revenge against the Empire for killing his family 2:03:03.360 --> 2:03:06.240 or something like that kind of cliched stories is not 2:03:06.400 --> 2:03:10.800 what they're doing here. Instead, this is all all about Clia. Yeah, 2:03:10.840 --> 2:03:14.720 it's about how he's like found Claya and both of 2:03:14.760 --> 2:03:18.280 them are broken by what he has done. So then 2:03:18.320 --> 2:03:21.360 he spends the rest of his life building the rebellion 2:03:21.520 --> 2:03:24.760 for Claia so that she can live on and she 2:03:25.520 --> 2:03:29.840 can beat the Empire. And that's the entire point of him. 2:03:29.920 --> 2:03:31.760 Like that, that is what's driving him. He is like 2:03:31.800 --> 2:03:35.520 the most selfless character. Tony in an interview said, quote, 2:03:35.840 --> 2:03:38.120 there are only a certain number of reasons that you 2:03:38.160 --> 2:03:40.560 can change your life, and one of them is just 2:03:40.720 --> 2:03:44.000 absolute self discussed. So we found a way for him 2:03:44.040 --> 2:03:46.839 to have a belly full of it at the right moment. 2:03:47.240 --> 2:03:49.120 Yeah, and I love that that, Like, that's his whole 2:03:49.160 --> 2:03:53.320 motivation ultimately is like undoing the only part of what 2:03:53.360 --> 2:03:55.600 he was involved in that he can undo, which is 2:03:56.200 --> 2:04:00.920 saving this person. And like saving this person involved destroying 2:04:00.960 --> 2:04:03.680 the thing that took her life away from her. 2:04:04.320 --> 2:04:09.400 Yeah, the entire apparatus of the Empire yeah, yeah, I 2:04:09.440 --> 2:04:11.920 think we're kind of wrapped up with this episode here, 2:04:11.960 --> 2:04:17.600 but like the Clay hospital like infiltration sequence is superb, 2:04:18.280 --> 2:04:21.000 so good, like one one person doing all of this 2:04:21.040 --> 2:04:26.200 stuff to the absolute befuddlement of like the Imperial Troopers. 2:04:26.560 --> 2:04:29.840 She's really embodying the line from Rogue one, make ten 2:04:29.920 --> 2:04:32.840 men feel like a hundred Yeah, and yeah, she's able 2:04:32.880 --> 2:04:35.040 to infiltrate this hospital, like she's working with a team 2:04:35.080 --> 2:04:37.440 of like ten people and it's and it's just her 2:04:37.800 --> 2:04:41.200 shout out to the Granny alien in the elevator, very 2:04:41.400 --> 2:04:42.880 very great little comment. 2:04:43.000 --> 2:04:43.400 Yeah. 2:04:45.680 --> 2:04:48.800 Yeah, but unlessly either have anything else to say about 2:04:48.800 --> 2:04:49.640 episode ten. 2:04:49.760 --> 2:04:52.520 I mean, yeah, I like this. This is obviously like 2:04:52.680 --> 2:04:56.400 my favorite episode of this particular batch. 2:04:57.120 --> 2:04:59.360 Maybe the best in the whole series. Like this is 2:04:59.520 --> 2:05:00.400 absolutely yeah. 2:05:00.800 --> 2:05:03.120 I love the Luthen and Claya moments. I love seeing 2:05:03.200 --> 2:05:05.800 like how at the same time this like hint when 2:05:05.840 --> 2:05:08.480 you're seeing them kind of haggle over the price of 2:05:08.520 --> 2:05:11.840 this antiquity that they've got that like, Okay, So Clay 2:05:11.880 --> 2:05:17.440 always had this degree of like cunning and this ability 2:05:17.480 --> 2:05:20.640 to kind of like recognize what's going on, which probably 2:05:20.640 --> 2:05:23.240 hows you survived in the first place. Right, she's she 2:05:23.440 --> 2:05:27.240 was always someone who saw more than other people, which. 2:05:27.040 --> 2:05:30.720 She's the girl's Yeah. 2:05:30.760 --> 2:05:32.280 And at the same time, you get this piece of 2:05:32.360 --> 2:05:35.720 Luthan like there must have been like whatever he was 2:05:35.760 --> 2:05:38.480 before he joined the military, it was somebody who had 2:05:38.480 --> 2:05:41.800 this kind of deep knowledge of antiquities and probably this 2:05:41.920 --> 2:05:45.120 desire to make something of his life other than what 2:05:45.280 --> 2:05:47.280 became of it and all that he's got left of 2:05:47.320 --> 2:05:50.880 it is like utilizing that real piece of himself to 2:05:51.000 --> 2:05:54.640 make a fake person, right, Like that's which is such 2:05:54.680 --> 2:05:58.880 an interesting character beat for him, that like this, this 2:05:58.960 --> 2:06:01.520 thing that is probably closest to the real Luthan, the 2:06:01.520 --> 2:06:04.600 one that existed before his military service, before the Empire 2:06:04.680 --> 2:06:08.840 ruined him, is completely remade in the service of making 2:06:08.920 --> 2:06:10.200 himself into something he's not. 2:06:10.880 --> 2:06:13.520 So when I first saw this, I was really worried 2:06:13.680 --> 2:06:16.040 because I think one of those interesting parts about Clay 2:06:16.080 --> 2:06:17.840 as a character is that she is the only person 2:06:17.840 --> 2:06:20.160 that Luthen trusts absolutely right, She's the only person that 2:06:20.200 --> 2:06:22.560 he She's fully as an equal. She's the only one 2:06:22.560 --> 2:06:26.520 who has all the information that he has. And you know, 2:06:26.720 --> 2:06:28.640 I was like kind of worried that it was Okay, Well, 2:06:28.720 --> 2:06:31.480 now she's effectively his daughter, and it's like, no, it's 2:06:31.480 --> 2:06:34.960 actually like she is still the only person like even 2:06:35.000 --> 2:06:37.520 though Luthen has been sort of raising her is like 2:06:37.600 --> 2:06:39.520 he's been trying to raise her as an equal as 2:06:39.600 --> 2:06:41.280 much as much as he possibly can. I think that's 2:06:41.320 --> 2:06:45.840 a really really yeah, sort of fascinating like way for 2:06:45.880 --> 2:06:46.720 this thing to have gone. 2:06:47.320 --> 2:06:49.840 Like the actress of Claiya has said, like, like from 2:06:49.920 --> 2:06:54.600 Claya's perspective, like she doesn't really fully see Luthen like 2:06:54.760 --> 2:06:58.240 as her father figure because like inherently like he was 2:06:58.280 --> 2:07:02.800 like involved in the actual killing of like of her family, 2:07:03.280 --> 2:07:05.680 like she she is she has found a way to 2:07:05.760 --> 2:07:08.720 kind of love him through that. But it's it's not 2:07:08.880 --> 2:07:12.000 like it's not like that that like immediate familial love 2:07:12.120 --> 2:07:14.720 like it's it's it's it's a different rationalization that she 2:07:14.760 --> 2:07:17.800 can still like give him like a final kiss on 2:07:17.920 --> 2:07:21.920 his deathbed and like does like does care for him, 2:07:22.000 --> 2:07:24.560 but like it's so much more like complicated and murky 2:07:24.600 --> 2:07:27.240 and like like roped in with politics and roped in 2:07:27.280 --> 2:07:28.200 with Yeah. 2:07:28.240 --> 2:07:30.400 But here's here's the thing what I'll say about that, 2:07:30.560 --> 2:07:32.560 And and this is kind of my favorite part of 2:07:32.600 --> 2:07:35.080 that is I can see how she would be like 2:07:35.640 --> 2:07:38.240 this feeling I have towards him, like isn't like what 2:07:38.320 --> 2:07:41.000 someone would feel towards a father. But also she doesn't 2:07:41.080 --> 2:07:44.680 really know how people feel about their parents because she 2:07:44.800 --> 2:07:46.360 didn't get to have them very long. 2:07:46.480 --> 2:07:49.680 Keep people can't feel like that can feel about their father. 2:07:50.440 --> 2:07:53.400 Feeling both this deep sense of love and disgust towards 2:07:53.440 --> 2:07:57.520 your parents isn't normal experience, and she just doesn't writ 2:07:57.600 --> 2:07:59.320 I think maybe there's a degree in which she doesn't 2:07:59.320 --> 2:08:01.600 even really realize how how. 2:08:01.360 --> 2:08:02.920 Common that is because of. 2:08:04.600 --> 2:08:08.240 No, that's a good point. That's a good point. Yeah, 2:08:08.280 --> 2:08:12.960 all right. Episode eleven, who else knows? Krenick and Dedra 2:08:13.160 --> 2:08:16.920 queen out together? Hell yeah, look at look at them? 2:08:17.040 --> 2:08:22.120 Go so tetris in this interrogation chamber and Credit grills 2:08:22.160 --> 2:08:25.760 her about how this piece of information good, so good, 2:08:26.480 --> 2:08:30.440 how this piece of information has escaped containment and Dedra's 2:08:30.560 --> 2:08:35.280 Dedra's face strote this whole scene, Oh my gosh. 2:08:35.320 --> 2:08:37.800 She comes into it. You can tell she thinks I'm 2:08:37.800 --> 2:08:39.360 gonna get out of this. I'm gonna talk my way 2:08:39.400 --> 2:08:42.640 out of this. Yeah, surely I will sort this all out. 2:08:44.600 --> 2:08:44.840 Yeah. 2:08:44.960 --> 2:08:48.000 No, Once she realized this that this is actually about 2:08:48.040 --> 2:08:51.080 like the leakage of like the death Star plans and 2:08:51.200 --> 2:08:55.000 not just a simple raid on a rebel like weapons dealer. 2:08:55.920 --> 2:08:59.040 She realizes the kind of gravity of her situation. She 2:08:59.040 --> 2:09:01.480 she complains about how like he's been forced like scavenge 2:09:01.520 --> 2:09:06.040 for information because there's not like an efficient, efficient intel 2:09:06.080 --> 2:09:10.680 sharing operation across different imperial branches. H and Credit says 2:09:10.720 --> 2:09:13.080 to her, if you're not a rebel spy, you missed 2:09:13.120 --> 2:09:16.520 your calling, which is the biggest insult you could say. 2:09:16.680 --> 2:09:21.480 Oh my god, this destroys her. Yeah, like this is 2:09:21.520 --> 2:09:24.320 the this is the same mistake that like Cyril makes. Right, 2:09:24.360 --> 2:09:27.120 they're trying to like to like do this like try 2:09:27.200 --> 2:09:27.880 hard stuff. 2:09:27.960 --> 2:09:32.120 You think initiative is rewarded here exactly. Yeah, yeah, you know, 2:09:32.320 --> 2:09:35.440 you follow orders. You do not take your own initiative. 2:09:35.480 --> 2:09:38.240 You are not your own person. You follow what you're 2:09:38.240 --> 2:09:40.760 told to do. You don't take things into your own hands. 2:09:41.280 --> 2:09:45.880 This is how the whole system crumbles. Yeah, it's phenomenal. 2:09:45.960 --> 2:09:49.000 How like she is so much like you know, like 2:09:49.040 --> 2:09:52.160 it's especially in Cyril's eyes, right, she is like everything 2:09:52.200 --> 2:09:54.800 that he wanted to be but like couldn't and yet 2:09:54.840 --> 2:09:57.680 she has all the same flaws as him. They're both 2:09:57.800 --> 2:10:01.520 children trying to like grab and sees their spot like 2:10:01.680 --> 2:10:04.880 in the in the imperial world, and they can never 2:10:05.120 --> 2:10:08.400 escape the logic of children. Yeah, it's phenomenal. So so yeah, 2:10:08.440 --> 2:10:12.600 basically because because she was sent memos accidentally, she was 2:10:12.640 --> 2:10:16.520 accidentally added to HOO THEPC small group. Uh, she had 2:10:16.680 --> 2:10:18.840 she had information on the desk that she shouldn't have 2:10:18.920 --> 2:10:21.400 that she sorted that she stored on her computer that 2:10:21.440 --> 2:10:24.360 then Lonnie was able to access with like a stolen 2:10:24.400 --> 2:10:27.280 code cylinder, and this is why she's detained. 2:10:27.400 --> 2:10:29.560 And I love to that. Lonnie makes a statement that 2:10:29.640 --> 2:10:31.760 like he didn't tell Luthen he had this because he's like, well, 2:10:31.760 --> 2:10:34.520 you would have made me use it? Well, yeah, I did, 2:10:34.640 --> 2:10:37.400 super cool, And there's this yeah, like Lonnie has gotten 2:10:37.520 --> 2:10:40.480 very good at this, like he was right to not 2:10:40.680 --> 2:10:41.600 tell his boss. 2:10:42.360 --> 2:10:46.200 Sometimes you share and sometimes you don't. And yeah, yeah, no, 2:10:46.280 --> 2:10:48.360 like the idea of him holding onto this code cylinder 2:10:48.400 --> 2:10:50.600 this this whole year, knowing that you can only use 2:10:50.640 --> 2:10:53.120 this once before you're kind of found out, and then 2:10:53.200 --> 2:10:55.800 like waiting until he's heard chatter that like Luthin's gonna 2:10:55.800 --> 2:10:59.480 get raided, uses the cylinder, then discovers all these other files. 2:10:59.800 --> 2:11:02.680 It it shows how like important Luthin's operation is. Like 2:11:02.720 --> 2:11:04.400 this is I think what these last episodes are really 2:11:04.400 --> 2:11:07.360 about is kind of like, yeah, the redemption of Luthen 2:11:07.440 --> 2:11:12.400 in the eyes of the other rebel agents. So so yes, 2:11:13.480 --> 2:11:17.440 Dedra is completely fucked and it's hilarious and Ben Mendel 2:11:18.080 --> 2:11:20.160 is trancing around the scene. 2:11:20.360 --> 2:11:21.880 He's having such a good time. 2:11:22.720 --> 2:11:23.320 It's so good. 2:11:23.360 --> 2:11:25.480 This is like it's like this and and the thing 2:11:25.520 --> 2:11:27.680 where he's going cow kite. 2:11:28.640 --> 2:11:30.280 Episode, he's so good. 2:11:30.360 --> 2:11:32.880 It's only his two best Like yeah, it's also just 2:11:32.960 --> 2:11:35.240 really like god, they didn't let him cook a and 2:11:35.440 --> 2:11:37.920 or like oh it's him written like. 2:11:39.760 --> 2:11:41.240 You know, oh yeah, but. 2:11:41.240 --> 2:11:43.440 It's like it's like like these it's like you mean 2:11:43.560 --> 2:11:46.480 about this series is you've been getting to watch yeah, sorry, yeah, 2:11:46.640 --> 2:11:48.280 Rogue one. Yeah, it's like you've been getting to watch 2:11:48.320 --> 2:11:51.080 these people who have just been playing like kind of 2:11:51.120 --> 2:11:53.360 generic Star Wars characters and you get to watch. 2:11:53.240 --> 2:11:56.440 Them cook and it is a thing of beauty. The 2:11:56.520 --> 2:12:01.320 real freak gets to be let out because they're all freaks. 2:12:02.080 --> 2:12:05.680 There's that glorious moment when she realizes how fucked she 2:12:05.920 --> 2:12:07.720 is when he puts his finger on. 2:12:07.840 --> 2:12:08.520 Her hand. 2:12:10.320 --> 2:12:12.800 Like she's just an odd she's there for him to 2:12:12.960 --> 2:12:15.839 act off. She's right, she's a button. 2:12:15.840 --> 2:12:18.320 We can push you when, we can push you when 2:12:18.400 --> 2:12:21.160 we desire to. But you know, you don't go off 2:12:21.240 --> 2:12:23.600 by yourself. It's phenomena. 2:12:23.640 --> 2:12:24.920 And he's turning her off. 2:12:25.600 --> 2:12:27.840 Yeah, he has this line where he's like, you think 2:12:27.880 --> 2:12:30.240 I would come here for the death of an ISB clerk, 2:12:30.360 --> 2:12:31.320 Say say. 2:12:31.120 --> 2:12:37.400 The word it's phenomenal. Yees, say the word death star. Yeah, amazing. 2:12:37.640 --> 2:12:40.400 And then yeah, he turns her off and is like, yeah, 2:12:40.400 --> 2:12:42.280 we'll get it. We'll get by without you somehow. 2:12:42.360 --> 2:12:46.160 Yeah, hopefully, hopefully we'll be able to get by without you. 2:12:46.520 --> 2:12:48.840 Yeah. And it's so funny because like he is just 2:12:49.160 --> 2:12:52.640 he is nuking her. There's nothing left after this. And 2:12:52.800 --> 2:12:58.480 also they can't say actually, actually he's dead in like two. 2:12:58.320 --> 2:13:03.400 Days, Target literate his ass with. 2:13:03.520 --> 2:13:08.960 The bargain's about to be sick dust and everyone else. Yes, 2:13:09.080 --> 2:13:10.040 everyone's a button. 2:13:10.360 --> 2:13:12.400 And it's crazy how much of like the is B 2:13:12.560 --> 2:13:15.160 gets totally wiped out, like the week of the Death 2:13:15.200 --> 2:13:18.640 Stars destruction like this shows like the real decline of 2:13:18.680 --> 2:13:21.960 the Empires. It's like this, like administrative, bureaucratic state that's 2:13:21.960 --> 2:13:24.480 been running the real day to day operations gets completely 2:13:24.560 --> 2:13:28.240 wiped out. And now these two like scith lunatics have 2:13:28.320 --> 2:13:30.760 to personally run everything themselves and they can't do it. 2:13:31.080 --> 2:13:34.160 They just can't. They were they were relying on all 2:13:34.200 --> 2:13:36.360 of like the republic holdovers that actually knew how to 2:13:36.400 --> 2:13:37.720 like run like run a state. 2:13:37.800 --> 2:13:40.560 Yeah, these guys like Laren and whatnot who were like 2:13:41.360 --> 2:13:46.400 harm job yes yeah yeah, oh part of gas and 2:13:46.520 --> 2:13:48.360 they all get iced out. 2:13:48.960 --> 2:13:51.200 Yeah yeah, I mean, and this is this is a 2:13:51.280 --> 2:13:53.840 dynamic that I think, like because like everyone you were 2:13:53.920 --> 2:13:56.600 trained from birth in the US to know the like 2:13:56.640 --> 2:13:58.440 the revolution of ours a children. 2:13:58.240 --> 2:14:01.280 Thing, and the Empire ever talks about this. 2:14:02.440 --> 2:14:05.400 Just like no, the liquida should rate for these. 2:14:05.240 --> 2:14:06.360 People is astonishing. 2:14:06.440 --> 2:14:08.360 They also all like turn through these people, and it's 2:14:08.360 --> 2:14:11.080 like you can you can watch like Vader doing this 2:14:11.160 --> 2:14:14.240 to people. We're like Vader, Like Vader just keeps fucking 2:14:14.320 --> 2:14:15.160 killing his officers. 2:14:15.560 --> 2:14:17.960 Yeah, yeah, on his Superstar Destroyer all the time. 2:14:18.040 --> 2:14:20.560 Well, and and what we what we see throughout and 2:14:20.720 --> 2:14:24.360 Or is rebels fuck up all the time. They fail 2:14:24.440 --> 2:14:27.040 all the time. We see moments of failure from Luthen, 2:14:27.160 --> 2:14:30.160 we see them from Cassi in we see them from 2:14:30.400 --> 2:14:34.280 Draven and they guys at Indoor bail Mon Mathma. They 2:14:34.280 --> 2:14:37.120 all fuck up, and then they get the chance to 2:14:37.240 --> 2:14:40.400 learn from their mistakes and get better, which is ultimately 2:14:40.440 --> 2:14:41.040 why they win. 2:14:41.120 --> 2:14:44.360 And that privilege is never an extended no to the Empire. 2:14:44.360 --> 2:14:47.360 Even if you're really good, you're going to make some 2:14:47.480 --> 2:14:50.240 mistakes and the first time you do, Darth Vader chokes 2:14:50.240 --> 2:14:53.400 you to death, and so the Empire never gets better. 2:14:54.160 --> 2:14:56.480 It's just because this was a point in the old 2:14:56.560 --> 2:14:58.320 Canyon where like one of the one of the arguments 2:14:58.320 --> 2:14:59.920 of like why the rebels won the war was like 2:15:00.680 --> 2:15:04.760 X wings have shields, yeah, and tie fighters don't, and 2:15:04.800 --> 2:15:06.120 you could so you can make a mistake in an 2:15:06.200 --> 2:15:08.120 X wing, but if you make say a tie fighter, 2:15:08.200 --> 2:15:10.000 just doe. So the rebel pilots end up being better 2:15:10.040 --> 2:15:12.280 than the imperial ones because they survive. And there's there's 2:15:12.280 --> 2:15:14.720 this other like there are lots of these interesting parallels too, 2:15:14.720 --> 2:15:17.400 where like the death of the Administrative State was also 2:15:17.440 --> 2:15:19.240 sort of an old canon thing where it's like, so 2:15:19.280 --> 2:15:20.640 the way it plays out in the old canon's like 2:15:20.680 --> 2:15:22.600 at endor and this like is the thing that you 2:15:22.680 --> 2:15:24.800 canon too, I guess but like all of the best 2:15:24.800 --> 2:15:27.720 officers are trying to get promoted up the ladder, and 2:15:27.760 --> 2:15:32.520 so they're all on the Emperor the Emperor Superstar Destroyer. Yeah, 2:15:32.600 --> 2:15:34.640 and when that thing goes down, it's like yeah, it 2:15:34.760 --> 2:15:36.440 like and this is this is partially just a thing 2:15:36.440 --> 2:15:38.960 that also about like how imperial administration works is how 2:15:39.000 --> 2:15:41.120 centralized it is, is that they have single points of failure. 2:15:41.360 --> 2:15:43.200 And this is for example, Haberdijia fell. 2:15:43.480 --> 2:15:44.240 It's like, yeah, they put. 2:15:46.240 --> 2:15:48.160 Up and it's like we don't have a state. 2:15:47.920 --> 2:15:50.600 Anymore because everything's so centralized and it being so centralized 2:15:50.600 --> 2:15:53.640 and everyone being so essential, and also you killing all 2:15:53.680 --> 2:15:56.240 these people because your organization doesn't tolerate a failure. It 2:15:56.360 --> 2:15:58.920 just it creates these discscading failure points where you knock 2:15:58.920 --> 2:16:00.720 out a couple of people on it and suddenly it's 2:16:00.720 --> 2:16:02.000 like everything's destroyed. 2:16:02.520 --> 2:16:04.480 I do want to return to the point of kind 2:16:04.480 --> 2:16:06.360 of how fastiss in like eth the zone at the end, 2:16:06.400 --> 2:16:09.120 because Tony has some quotes on that. I'm just gonna 2:16:09.120 --> 2:16:11.080 speed run through these next few kind of points here. 2:16:11.720 --> 2:16:15.280 The ice be tracks Klay's movements via hospital security cameras, 2:16:15.840 --> 2:16:19.960 even though she tries to avoid an evade detection. She 2:16:20.080 --> 2:16:22.680 is basically stuck on Corussant and starts hiding out in 2:16:22.760 --> 2:16:25.840 the old safe house, broadcasting an emergency pulse code to 2:16:25.880 --> 2:16:30.440 her comrades on Yavin. Meanwhile, a divorced Cassian and Melchie 2:16:30.560 --> 2:16:33.600 get drunk and start bullying their autistic robot friend while 2:16:33.600 --> 2:16:34.240 playing poker. 2:16:35.560 --> 2:16:40.200 So good, it's so funny cases, Hey, I know, oh, 2:16:40.280 --> 2:16:42.880 I know, I'm well aware. I am the sober autistic 2:16:42.920 --> 2:16:44.560 girl in every one of these things. 2:16:44.720 --> 2:16:48.520 Well, and they understand the most important thing about television 2:16:48.560 --> 2:16:52.200 sci fi, which is a robot awkwardly playing poker with 2:16:52.320 --> 2:16:53.120 a human friend. 2:16:53.200 --> 2:16:53.480 I know. 2:16:57.720 --> 2:17:01.039 Data K TWOSO holding hid me and. 2:17:01.000 --> 2:17:03.080 I love the K two s O is also constantly 2:17:03.080 --> 2:17:04.959 being like, you guys are drinking a lot, like. 2:17:07.240 --> 2:17:07.879 Yeah, I love that. 2:17:07.959 --> 2:17:10.680 When they're about to go on this last mission, Cassian 2:17:10.920 --> 2:17:16.600 isnically drunk driving. Yeah, he is one and a half 2:17:16.720 --> 2:17:20.199 shot away from blacking out. It's time to pilot a spacecraft. 2:17:20.320 --> 2:17:25.280 Most most realistic insertions like no one will be this 2:17:25.400 --> 2:17:29.160 drunk again until like no, like many many years later 2:17:29.320 --> 2:17:33.680 in this galaxy, until like there's until like civil war generals, Yeah, 2:17:33.760 --> 2:17:36.040 are finding each other's next time, and we'll be this drunk. 2:17:37.040 --> 2:17:39.920 Ulyssie Simpson Grant is the last person to be as 2:17:40.000 --> 2:17:43.200 drunk as Cassian and or was in this scene. 2:17:44.080 --> 2:17:47.080 Woman's old like Luthen radio goes off with an as 2:17:47.120 --> 2:17:50.120 West message. She takes it to Cassian, who then yeah, 2:17:50.200 --> 2:17:52.879 drunk drives there, you way off Yavin. 2:17:54.480 --> 2:17:56.920 And let's let's have a shout out to our man 2:17:57.040 --> 2:17:59.720 Draven here. Who is he? He's kind of he's kind 2:17:59.720 --> 2:18:03.800 of he's kind of based like I love. I love 2:18:03.840 --> 2:18:06.039 that they managed to both make him be. He has 2:18:06.120 --> 2:18:08.879 to be the foil to Cassian because Cassian does not 2:18:09.120 --> 2:18:12.280 want this chain of command bullshit. He's so sympathetic, but 2:18:12.320 --> 2:18:14.960 he's not wrong, and he's not a dick. He's like, look, man, 2:18:15.240 --> 2:18:18.200 I've got like four hundred other freighters. I'm worried about 2:18:18.240 --> 2:18:20.800 right now, those shipments of rifles that I that I 2:18:20.879 --> 2:18:22.280 have to keep. I have to keep all of this 2:18:22.360 --> 2:18:24.240 in my head. I can't write any of it down. 2:18:24.360 --> 2:18:27.440 I haven't slept in days. I ate nothing, but Tom's like, 2:18:27.760 --> 2:18:31.000 I can't even drink hot coffee because otherwise my fucking 2:18:31.080 --> 2:18:34.360 ulcers light on fire. I don't even remember when I 2:18:34.400 --> 2:18:38.600 hate solid food. My ibs has ibs. Can you please 2:18:38.720 --> 2:18:41.680 stop taking off in the middle of the night. 2:18:43.040 --> 2:18:45.600 It's so funny that the thing Cassian does at the 2:18:45.680 --> 2:18:47.920 end of Rogue one, it's just like a regular currents 2:18:48.000 --> 2:18:53.000 on the face he's doing this, but no, like like 2:18:53.120 --> 2:18:55.680 consistently Draven, even even if he gets pissed off, the 2:18:55.720 --> 2:18:59.560 Cassian consistently has his backstill, which is I think, really 2:18:59.640 --> 2:19:01.360 really yes. 2:19:01.840 --> 2:19:02.240 Yeah. 2:19:02.440 --> 2:19:07.680 Krenik realizes how fucked they are and tries to get 2:19:07.680 --> 2:19:10.280 the entire ice B immobilized to locate Claia as she 2:19:10.520 --> 2:19:13.200 is probably in possession of the death Star intel quote. 2:19:13.240 --> 2:19:16.199 There will be no horizon to the scope of your inquiry. 2:19:17.000 --> 2:19:19.039 And this is where we have some of the most 2:19:19.080 --> 2:19:22.880 interesting stuff from Partigas and how he views like rebellions 2:19:22.959 --> 2:19:26.720 and revolutions as a disease. And this relates to some 2:19:26.760 --> 2:19:28.760 of his lines from season one where he describes the 2:19:28.800 --> 2:19:33.080 ISP as quote unquote healthcare providers. We treat sickness, We 2:19:33.160 --> 2:19:37.200 identify symptoms, We locate germs, whether they arise from within 2:19:37.760 --> 2:19:40.560 or have come from the outside. The longer we wait 2:19:40.600 --> 2:19:43.520 to identify a disorder, the harder it is to treat 2:19:43.520 --> 2:19:46.680 the disease unquote. And then when the ice P decides 2:19:46.760 --> 2:19:50.320 on what grounds they are looking to apprehend Clia Partogras 2:19:50.400 --> 2:19:54.840 proclaims that quote she's diseased. She escaped the hospital with 2:19:54.920 --> 2:19:58.600 infectious condition that threatens everyone with whom she may come 2:19:58.720 --> 2:20:00.760 into contact. 2:20:01.480 --> 2:20:03.800 I'm so glad they did this because this is such 2:20:03.840 --> 2:20:06.880 a core part of the ideology of fascism, right of 2:20:06.879 --> 2:20:09.200 seeing seeing that the body is a nation and there 2:20:09.240 --> 2:20:12.040 being these sort of like parasitic infections that are inside 2:20:12.080 --> 2:20:14.080 the nation that are like undermining it. That's that's like 2:20:14.120 --> 2:20:18.280 just the core of fascism. And you're just getting You're 2:20:18.280 --> 2:20:20.880 just getting to watch like the people in the middle 2:20:20.920 --> 2:20:24.520 of the Empire just literally trying to do the thing 2:20:24.560 --> 2:20:28.320 and in the most literal way possible, right Like they're 2:20:28.360 --> 2:20:30.920 just they're just coming out and saying what the ideology 2:20:30.959 --> 2:20:31.760 is and how it works. 2:20:31.800 --> 2:20:34.400 And I it may it may. 2:20:34.240 --> 2:20:36.560 Still be a level of metaphor that is slightly too 2:20:36.600 --> 2:20:38.480 high for the average Star Wars viewer, but they are 2:20:38.600 --> 2:20:39.760 just telling you the politics. 2:20:39.840 --> 2:20:41.440 Yeah, and I really appreciate that. 2:20:41.920 --> 2:20:42.720 Yeah. 2:20:43.120 --> 2:20:45.959 Now, while stuck in an ic be holding cell with 2:20:45.959 --> 2:20:50.160 with with an unbuttoned collar, the detra is crashing out 2:20:50.840 --> 2:20:53.120 and you can tell because the caller is unbuttoned, but 2:20:53.280 --> 2:20:55.800 somehow she is still able to give the ISB a 2:20:55.920 --> 2:20:59.440 lead to track Claya through her use of obscure radio signals. Yeah, 2:20:59.720 --> 2:21:02.360 one of the cool parts here is an Imperial radio 2:21:02.360 --> 2:21:07.680 technician is impressed at Lusen's radio setup and can and 2:21:07.760 --> 2:21:10.280 can't help but be excited when like learning how it works. 2:21:10.720 --> 2:21:13.760 But they say that Luthan targeted the storage files and 2:21:13.800 --> 2:21:17.480 the radio signal library when he burned the console, but 2:21:17.560 --> 2:21:20.600 still they were able to track Claya's pulsecode to a 2:21:20.640 --> 2:21:24.640 nearby apartment on Coruscant, and in preparation for the raid 2:21:24.680 --> 2:21:26.880 on the safe house, the ice Peed jams calms around 2:21:26.920 --> 2:21:30.080 the area right as Cassian, Melchi and K two arrive 2:21:30.160 --> 2:21:34.120 to extract Claia. As Cassie gets into the apartment and 2:21:34.200 --> 2:21:37.840 finds not Luthan but Claia and then tries to plead 2:21:37.879 --> 2:21:40.959 with her to come to Yavin. He also like kind 2:21:41.000 --> 2:21:44.480 of lambass Luthen for not coming to Yavin sooner because 2:21:44.520 --> 2:21:48.760 he couldn't swallow his pride, and Claia says, quote, thank 2:21:48.879 --> 2:21:52.840 the Galaxy, he didn't. He stayed for this that people 2:21:52.879 --> 2:21:56.080 in Yavin have to know what they're up against. Think, 2:21:56.240 --> 2:21:59.920 thank the Galaxy. He did it so good. All right, 2:22:00.240 --> 2:22:02.200 let's go on break and then we'll return to discuss 2:22:02.240 --> 2:22:16.840 the final episode. Okay, we are back. Episode twelve. Jetta 2:22:17.040 --> 2:22:21.440 kiber urso so Cass is trying to convince Clia to leave, 2:22:21.520 --> 2:22:24.240 like right now, right this very second, please dear clot 2:22:24.320 --> 2:22:27.080 come with me, and Claya is still like kind of 2:22:27.120 --> 2:22:30.480 pissed up with the whole situation, like Gavin after all 2:22:30.520 --> 2:22:34.320 these years, what a bitter ending. Cass tries to argue 2:22:34.320 --> 2:22:37.280 that if she comes, she's helping to keep Luthan alive, 2:22:37.840 --> 2:22:43.720 which she calls big words the Imperial Swat Team importantly 2:22:43.800 --> 2:22:47.480 not stormtroopers. Instead, these goofy s swat guys surround the 2:22:47.520 --> 2:22:52.840 apartment trying to locate Claya. As the ISB locates Cass, Claya, 2:22:53.120 --> 2:22:56.720 and Melchi, they throw a stun grenade, which, this is 2:22:56.800 --> 2:22:59.280 very interesting to me, does not really affect Cass and 2:22:59.280 --> 2:23:02.520 Melchie as much like Claya gets knocked out, but the 2:23:02.640 --> 2:23:07.560 Narkina five prison shocks conditioned Melchi and Cass against the 2:23:07.600 --> 2:23:10.519 sun grenade. Yeah, which is again phenomenal. 2:23:10.800 --> 2:23:14.560 It's so good and I think just generally like Claya 2:23:14.640 --> 2:23:17.560 has again Luthen has protected her from a lot of 2:23:17.840 --> 2:23:21.560 like the direct she doesn't have CTE. Right, if Cassie 2:23:21.600 --> 2:23:24.160 and had lived another thirty years, like his fucking brain 2:23:24.200 --> 2:23:26.440 would have been melting because he's been around too many 2:23:26.480 --> 2:23:29.720 goddamn explosions and he's been electrocute and the same things 2:23:29.720 --> 2:23:33.440 to a melchie, right, they just barely feel it. 2:23:33.520 --> 2:23:35.640 But to be fair, it's not like she hasn't blown 2:23:35.720 --> 2:23:36.280 up a bunch of things. 2:23:36.840 --> 2:23:40.240 She's had a distance from a distance, we just watch 2:23:40.320 --> 2:23:44.360 her liquidate an entire Imperial Security compliment to go kill Luthen. 2:23:44.640 --> 2:23:46.320 Like, it's not like she hasn't done this. 2:23:46.320 --> 2:23:49.480 No, no, no, But she's raised by an old soldier who 2:23:49.560 --> 2:23:51.520 does the responsible thing that you do if you have 2:23:51.520 --> 2:23:53.959 the experience, which is you tell the younger people, no, no, no, 2:23:54.160 --> 2:23:57.960 use your ear pro for no, give further back. I 2:23:58.040 --> 2:24:00.560 know you don't think you need to be, but get 2:24:00.640 --> 2:24:07.400 further back, like my ears ring all the time. Don't 2:24:07.440 --> 2:24:10.480 fucking take risks. I also kind of what I wonder 2:24:10.520 --> 2:24:12.880 if maybe there's a level of protection from the stand 2:24:12.879 --> 2:24:15.119 grad age you get again when you are still right 2:24:15.160 --> 2:24:16.360 on the edge of a blackout. 2:24:17.800 --> 2:24:24.080 Yeah, that's that's compelling. So as K two just completely 2:24:24.080 --> 2:24:29.920 demolishes this Imperial team. Uh, the the i SB calls 2:24:29.920 --> 2:24:33.879 for backup, but everyone is spread too thin because they're 2:24:34.080 --> 2:24:37.520 searching for the emergency disease warrant from partagraphs. 2:24:39.160 --> 2:24:39.640 So good. 2:24:39.920 --> 2:24:43.680 Yeah, Claya does get to Yavin, and here we see 2:24:43.680 --> 2:24:47.760 a lot more of like the tricky aspects of Yavin politics. 2:24:48.600 --> 2:24:51.160 Saw is kind of getting impossible to deal with. He 2:24:51.240 --> 2:24:52.400 is haffing way too much fuel. 2:24:52.800 --> 2:24:56.040 He's huffing an amount of fuel. I don't know if I'm 2:24:55.959 --> 2:24:59.080 gonna say it's too much, but I do. His insistence 2:24:59.120 --> 2:25:01.720 where they're dude, we know you're we know you're on 2:25:01.840 --> 2:25:05.200 Jetta's we know no idea, you. 2:25:05.240 --> 2:25:07.119 Don't know where I am? 2:25:07.200 --> 2:25:07.360 You know. 2:25:07.440 --> 2:25:10.760 Yeah's trying to argue with him about about how they're 2:25:10.760 --> 2:25:13.160 trying to get to the bottom of like the Imperial 2:25:13.200 --> 2:25:15.959 kiper minding on Jetta and they're like, we know you're 2:25:16.000 --> 2:25:19.080 on Jetta, and he tries to deny it. You don't 2:25:19.080 --> 2:25:20.800 know where I am? Yes, we do. 2:25:21.360 --> 2:25:23.440 There's also this great thing at the end of that 2:25:23.520 --> 2:25:26.160 where Moths like, we're just trying to help you. And 2:25:26.200 --> 2:25:29.240 then and Saw just cuss the line and I think 2:25:29.280 --> 2:25:33.240 it's Draven. Whatever the the Rebel intelligence. Ghoul in the 2:25:33.320 --> 2:25:36.360 room cuts the line and Moss was kind of just 2:25:36.360 --> 2:25:39.440 going like uh, and he goes, oh, no, we've absolutely. 2:25:38.840 --> 2:25:41.360 Been sending spies into his group, and. 2:25:41.280 --> 2:25:46.039 She's been We've been bugging him. He's He's absolutely right. 2:25:46.240 --> 2:25:48.760 It's something I think it's interesting about because, like it 2:25:49.240 --> 2:25:52.080 in Rogue one, Saw is like seems like such an 2:25:52.160 --> 2:25:53.640 unbelievably paranoid asshole. 2:25:53.800 --> 2:25:55.000 It's like, no, like the. 2:25:54.959 --> 2:25:57.959 Rebels really have been like trying to the rebels and 2:25:58.000 --> 2:25:59.959 the Empire really have been trying to infiltrate his group 2:26:00.080 --> 2:26:03.160 for like so fucking long that he's completely lost his 2:26:03.280 --> 2:26:05.160 mind from just like the paranoia. 2:26:05.400 --> 2:26:08.160 Also, he is canonically again a forty six. 2:26:11.440 --> 2:26:13.560 Puffing all that fuel really does rapid age you. 2:26:13.760 --> 2:26:15.560 Yeah, yeah, it's not great for you. 2:26:16.160 --> 2:26:18.119 So then we have, I guess the most frustrating part 2:26:18.120 --> 2:26:20.959 of the episode, Like good but frustrating to watch with 2:26:21.000 --> 2:26:25.160 this this this Rebel spokes Council meeting about Luthen and 2:26:25.200 --> 2:26:28.480 the Death Star intel. Oh my god, are these people annoying? 2:26:28.840 --> 2:26:32.360 Uh yeah, what pieces of shit? These people, These people 2:26:32.400 --> 2:26:35.720 who have like done basically nothing. Yeah, they're senators, Who's like, 2:26:35.840 --> 2:26:39.000 who who have who have defected to Yavin, and they 2:26:39.040 --> 2:26:41.640 don't know the cost of things that that they're actually 2:26:41.680 --> 2:26:45.320 dealing in. Bail says that that Luthen stayed on Corussants 2:26:45.360 --> 2:26:49.560 too long and again no, no Luthen state for this 2:26:49.600 --> 2:26:50.400 piece of information. 2:26:51.280 --> 2:26:51.600 M hm. 2:26:52.000 --> 2:26:55.200 And and Mon's getting kind of increasingly frustrated as everyone's 2:26:55.280 --> 2:26:58.520 kind of like bad talking Luthen. Again. We we We've 2:26:58.560 --> 2:27:01.720 been very clear on the show about Lusen as a 2:27:01.760 --> 2:27:05.360 complicated character with some people more pro Luthin than others. 2:27:05.600 --> 2:27:07.800 But and And a man like Mon herself, has a 2:27:07.800 --> 2:27:10.600 lot of reservations about Luthen, but yeah, she also knows 2:27:10.720 --> 2:27:13.280 is like her directly and everyone else are only here 2:27:13.360 --> 2:27:15.400 in part because of what he's done. And that's not 2:27:15.440 --> 2:27:17.640 saying he was right about every single thing, but he 2:27:17.879 --> 2:27:20.400 he but that still is true, right like he this 2:27:20.520 --> 2:27:23.240 is he is still very important to this. And everyone's 2:27:23.280 --> 2:27:26.600 being quite dismissive of Cassian and and and the intel 2:27:26.640 --> 2:27:30.160 from Luthen and Cassian kind of gets you know, put 2:27:30.200 --> 2:27:34.080 into put into confinement, and and gets dismissed and requests 2:27:34.160 --> 2:27:36.520 to visit Claya in the hospital. And this is where 2:27:36.520 --> 2:27:39.280 Mon finally speaks up and immediately grants him permission because 2:27:39.320 --> 2:27:42.440 like she's she she knows all these people, like like 2:27:42.480 --> 2:27:44.880 the she's and she's the only one on on this 2:27:44.920 --> 2:27:47.280 little council that like knows all of these people and 2:27:47.320 --> 2:27:50.800 knows like how much they have sacrificed. Yeah, but still 2:27:50.959 --> 2:27:53.240 like mon Mon is still like a good operator here. 2:27:53.320 --> 2:27:57.280 And she asked her cousin Vell to like talk with 2:27:57.400 --> 2:28:00.880 cassiean and like suss out how real this death Star 2:28:01.120 --> 2:28:03.959 intel is. When Belle does this, she doesn't try to 2:28:04.000 --> 2:28:06.440 do it like covertly. She likes talks to Cassie ad 2:28:06.600 --> 2:28:08.840 very like flatly, being like hey, like mom, set me 2:28:08.879 --> 2:28:11.000 here to try to figure out if if this is legit? 2:28:11.320 --> 2:28:15.440 Is is this legit? And they discuss the intel. Meanwhile, 2:28:15.680 --> 2:28:19.240 Claia gets up from like her like medical medical bay 2:28:19.640 --> 2:28:21.959 and starts walking around Yavin in the rain and like, 2:28:22.000 --> 2:28:24.720 oh my god, somebody please hug her, like someone like 2:28:24.800 --> 2:28:27.480 do something like she should not be left alone, like 2:28:27.879 --> 2:28:29.720 she's had one of the one of the most traumatic 2:28:29.800 --> 2:28:33.120 days of her life. Someone like take care of her. 2:28:33.160 --> 2:28:36.440 And Bell runs into Claia and like Vell and Clay 2:28:36.440 --> 2:28:37.800 have had like kind of a kind of like a 2:28:37.840 --> 2:28:42.080 dicey relationship, but like in this moment we see like 2:28:42.160 --> 2:28:45.440 just the importance of like sheer solidarity and Vell like 2:28:45.560 --> 2:28:48.240 cares for her, gets her to like cover, gives her 2:28:48.280 --> 2:28:51.440 like a place to sleep, and it's a really touching scene. 2:28:51.720 --> 2:28:53.320 And I want to talk about this moment a little 2:28:53.320 --> 2:28:55.080 bit because I think it's an interesting character thing with 2:28:55.120 --> 2:28:57.320 Claia here, where Claya, who had this entire show, is 2:28:57.320 --> 2:28:59.920 the only character who has to put together the entire time. Yeah, 2:29:00.320 --> 2:29:03.400 Like even partigast At like the very end starts to 2:29:03.440 --> 2:29:06.880 sort of crack, right, Claia is the one character who, 2:29:06.959 --> 2:29:09.200 like when everyone is falling apart around her, when Andre 2:29:09.280 --> 2:29:11.640 is falling apart, when when like even when Luthen is 2:29:11.680 --> 2:29:14.320 falling apart, Clay, Clay is always on it, fuck you 2:29:14.320 --> 2:29:17.400 pulling myself together. You have to hold this together. Yeah, 2:29:17.440 --> 2:29:19.680 And it's like her and you have this bot like 2:29:19.720 --> 2:29:22.240 her task. This is when she's finally is able to break. Yeah, 2:29:22.520 --> 2:29:25.160 she's been holding in so much. Yeah yeah, yeah, Like 2:29:25.280 --> 2:29:27.360 one her task is finally over and so she can 2:29:27.560 --> 2:29:31.959 like let herself fall apart. And two it's like a 2:29:32.040 --> 2:29:34.480 thing that could finally actually drive her to fall apart 2:29:34.520 --> 2:29:36.200 is the fact that she just had to fucking to 2:29:36.240 --> 2:29:38.960 kill Luthan kill the person who raised her. Yeah, she 2:29:39.000 --> 2:29:40.680 had to fucking kill Lutheran and then get out. And 2:29:41.040 --> 2:29:43.080 you can see this thing where that I think is 2:29:43.120 --> 2:29:44.440 like very familiar to a lot of people were like 2:29:44.680 --> 2:29:46.320 she's been. And she also has to hold all this 2:29:46.360 --> 2:29:48.320 information in her head because if she forgets any of 2:29:48.360 --> 2:29:51.520 the information that she's been told by Lutheran, the rebellion 2:29:51.560 --> 2:29:54.520 is doomed. And and and when Ander like first meets 2:29:54.520 --> 2:29:56.720 her on Corrusons, she's just like spilling it out, springing 2:29:56.720 --> 2:29:59.680 it out. She's out jumble of words. Yeah, and it's 2:29:59.720 --> 2:30:02.320 like and it's and it's a thing where like she's 2:30:02.440 --> 2:30:05.280 she's finally reached the point where it's like she has 2:30:05.360 --> 2:30:07.280 one last thing to do and she can fall apart, 2:30:07.320 --> 2:30:09.039 and then she can finally, instead of having to be 2:30:09.080 --> 2:30:12.199 the one who's caring for literally everyone and holding literally 2:30:12.200 --> 2:30:14.039 everyone else together, she can finally like. 2:30:15.480 --> 2:30:15.800 Rest. 2:30:15.920 --> 2:30:18.720 And she doesn't know how to do that because she's 2:30:18.760 --> 2:30:21.080 always had to be the one who's holding everything together 2:30:21.120 --> 2:30:21.840 this entire time. 2:30:22.240 --> 2:30:24.400 I do love the moment when Lutherin first gives her 2:30:24.400 --> 2:30:26.560 the information and he like forces her to like repeat 2:30:26.560 --> 2:30:28.080 it back to him, like make make sure you can 2:30:28.160 --> 2:30:30.520 you can express it to me. And then she does 2:30:30.520 --> 2:30:33.240 the same thing to Cassian, and Cassian like doesn't like 2:30:33.400 --> 2:30:36.280 Cassian doesn't repeat it back to her. And but yeah, 2:30:36.320 --> 2:30:38.080 like like that small like you know, like like you 2:30:38.120 --> 2:30:39.320 have to have like a ritual, you have to have 2:30:39.360 --> 2:30:41.080 like you have you have have like a protocol to 2:30:41.120 --> 2:30:43.000 make sure you actually like to make sure that I 2:30:43.080 --> 2:30:44.760 know you actually have this information, you need to like 2:30:44.800 --> 2:30:47.120 express it back to me. Yeah, it's it's just a 2:30:47.760 --> 2:30:50.320 nice little short moment. In the next morning, we see 2:30:50.360 --> 2:30:54.720 Cassian taking care of Bix's plants. Good for him. Yeah, 2:30:54.760 --> 2:30:57.560 And then this is when cass and Vell talk and 2:30:57.920 --> 2:31:01.280 they say that they're gonna drink to luthen Justice once, 2:31:01.360 --> 2:31:05.439 which again Cassiean's drinking right in the morning, good time. 2:31:05.520 --> 2:31:09.680 As soon as you like he does every day. 2:31:10.000 --> 2:31:13.400 Yes, But but they say, like we can't toast them 2:31:13.440 --> 2:31:20.120 all like Lieutenant Gornmic Santa Feryx, Marva Gorman, the El Donnis. 2:31:21.160 --> 2:31:25.040 And one one short little tidbit here Vell talks about 2:31:25.040 --> 2:31:27.200 how there's people falsely claiming that they were part of 2:31:27.240 --> 2:31:31.200 the El Donnie crew, which is the most accurate thing 2:31:31.360 --> 2:31:35.080 I have ever seen, where. 2:31:34.879 --> 2:31:38.240 They're like everybody keeps taking credit for this, and she's like, man, 2:31:38.280 --> 2:31:40.520 if someone did that in front of me there and. 2:31:40.560 --> 2:31:43.959 I killed him. Yeah, I was like, they're the only 2:31:44.000 --> 2:31:46.720 two people from the old Donnie Raids still still live, 2:31:46.840 --> 2:31:48.760 and like, yeah, like the idea that we're getting like 2:31:48.800 --> 2:31:52.320 rebel stolen valors, but very realistic, you know. I actually 2:31:52.360 --> 2:31:55.320 I actually punched Richard Spencer as like as like a 2:31:55.360 --> 2:31:56.120 fourteen year old. 2:31:56.720 --> 2:32:02.320 Yeah, it's very weird, pretty cool. Yeah. 2:32:02.400 --> 2:32:06.680 We then start hearing Nemeck's manifesto playing, and it's unclear 2:32:06.760 --> 2:32:08.760 that if there's playing it like for the show, but 2:32:08.760 --> 2:32:12.480 then we yeah, but then we realized that it's partographs 2:32:12.480 --> 2:32:17.600 listening in the Imperial Security Bureaus briefing room, and it's 2:32:17.680 --> 2:32:20.959 it's a really wonderful thing to return to. Yeah, and 2:32:21.520 --> 2:32:24.520 one of protographs is like you know, Underlings walks up 2:32:24.560 --> 2:32:28.480 to him and says like it just keeps spreading, doesn't it, 2:32:29.080 --> 2:32:33.680 And he says it's been hard to contain again, using 2:32:33.720 --> 2:32:38.680 this like a disease like rhetoric. He then asks for 2:32:38.720 --> 2:32:41.040 a moment to collect himself and then shoots himself in 2:32:41.120 --> 2:32:43.840 the head. This is one of the most fascinating parts 2:32:43.840 --> 2:32:45.840 of the show, like like knowing like the kind of 2:32:46.400 --> 2:32:49.800 the tear that he's going to face for like for failing, 2:32:49.879 --> 2:32:53.280 while also being confronted with like how much of his 2:32:53.400 --> 2:32:55.720 work for the Empire has been worth it? Like it's 2:32:55.760 --> 2:32:58.480 it's not his emotions here are not clearly laid out 2:32:58.520 --> 2:33:00.560 to you, because it's more interesting for you to think 2:33:00.600 --> 2:33:01.520 about them yourself. 2:33:02.200 --> 2:33:05.240 Yeah, and I've seen everything from like, oh, he realizes 2:33:05.280 --> 2:33:09.040 he was wrong to he realizes like the Empire is 2:33:09.080 --> 2:33:12.360 the disease or just he realizes the disease got out 2:33:12.440 --> 2:33:15.720 of control, like more than they had realized. 2:33:15.720 --> 2:33:18.600 But either the punishment he could be facing from the 2:33:18.600 --> 2:33:22.080 Empires not worth it like he is he is he's 2:33:22.120 --> 2:33:24.800 a career man. And why would he be sent to 2:33:24.879 --> 2:33:29.359 Narkina five? Like he is not going to El Salvador. Finally, 2:33:29.600 --> 2:33:32.600 Cassian is sent to meet a source on Kafring. That's 2:33:32.800 --> 2:33:36.560 that's one of the guys infiltrating saws operation to learn 2:33:36.760 --> 2:33:39.520 the location of Gala Urso, the designer at the Death Star. 2:33:39.920 --> 2:33:43.400 And we have this final montage across all of our characters. 2:33:43.440 --> 2:33:46.760 We have Man and Vell having breakfast with the grunts. 2:33:47.280 --> 2:33:51.039 You have divorced Parrin flying flying around on Coruscant. You 2:33:51.080 --> 2:33:56.080 have Dedra in a Narkina prison, and Claya gets to 2:33:56.120 --> 2:33:59.600 see the life of the rebellion, Saws at Jedda, Kredit 2:33:59.760 --> 2:34:02.320 is at the death Star be too, Emo has a 2:34:02.360 --> 2:34:06.959 new friend, and Bix is holding a baby watching the sunrise. 2:34:07.200 --> 2:34:08.160 Uh huh. 2:34:08.280 --> 2:34:12.240 So I want to talk mostly about Bix here, but 2:34:12.400 --> 2:34:15.440 first I think mon eating with the rebel troops is 2:34:15.440 --> 2:34:17.200 like very cool to have her just like with the 2:34:17.240 --> 2:34:19.640 regular people. She's not like with like bail and like 2:34:19.680 --> 2:34:22.480 not like like often like a special like counselor's room. 2:34:22.520 --> 2:34:25.200 She's like like just with everyone. We'll also talk a 2:34:25.240 --> 2:34:28.320 little bit about Claya here as well, but I think 2:34:28.320 --> 2:34:30.280 I think I want to just do Bix to start, 2:34:30.280 --> 2:34:33.360 if that's okay, sure, sure, yeah, yeah yeah. So Tony 2:34:33.360 --> 2:34:35.480 has talked a lot about this ending scene and about 2:34:35.480 --> 2:34:37.760 how he wanted to end with a sense of hope 2:34:38.040 --> 2:34:40.440 and like the hope for like life beyond you know, 2:34:40.600 --> 2:34:45.880 the empire, like like life beyond imperial oppression, and and 2:34:46.080 --> 2:34:48.640 Bix with the babies was to like symbolize this, and 2:34:48.760 --> 2:34:50.840 Bix is literally like looking at the sunrise right like 2:34:50.879 --> 2:34:54.160 the and this this metaphor of the sunrise has been 2:34:54.320 --> 2:34:56.960 something for Luthin, how he's never gonna get you actually 2:34:57.000 --> 2:34:58.720 get to see like life beyond the Empire, and he 2:34:58.760 --> 2:35:01.720 knows that he sacrificed that. It also calls into calls 2:35:01.760 --> 2:35:05.280 into view a Cassian dying at like the false sunrise 2:35:05.400 --> 2:35:08.360 of the Death Star. And I've seen I guess some 2:35:08.400 --> 2:35:13.840 people upset about Bicks just you know, being like off 2:35:13.879 --> 2:35:16.080 planet with a baby and feeling this is a kind 2:35:16.080 --> 2:35:19.240 of like relegating her character. And I think that there's 2:35:19.240 --> 2:35:22.080 a lot of things going on here. This show goes 2:35:22.360 --> 2:35:26.800 so so like way way beyond like simple politics of 2:35:27.320 --> 2:35:30.040 like representation and like voc casting right, which can often 2:35:30.120 --> 2:35:33.040 end up feeling like shallow boxes to check, because this 2:35:33.080 --> 2:35:36.720 show actually like depicts things like carceral injustice, manufactured consent 2:35:36.760 --> 2:35:41.480 for genocide, how structural patriarchy drives imperial oppression. Like the 2:35:41.560 --> 2:35:44.320 depth of the political mechanisms the show is tackling, I 2:35:44.320 --> 2:35:47.039 think is so much more worthwhile, and it's it's not 2:35:47.080 --> 2:35:49.480 immune to criticism for those reasons. But I think that 2:35:49.520 --> 2:35:53.200 aspect can be overlooked oddly. I think it'd we kind 2:35:53.200 --> 2:35:55.160 of like take for granted, like how good the show 2:35:55.240 --> 2:35:57.560 is at so many aspects, so many aspects of politics, 2:35:58.000 --> 2:36:00.560 and like this show specifically has women and in so 2:36:00.760 --> 2:36:03.680 many different roles beyond like the you know pop feminist 2:36:03.720 --> 2:36:06.039 girl boss Badass, which has been linked to Star Wars 2:36:06.040 --> 2:36:08.920 through Lea Ahsoka and to a lesser extent like Ray 2:36:08.959 --> 2:36:12.080 and Jim, and this trobe is itself kind of low 2:36:12.160 --> 2:36:15.920 key misogynistic. But in and Or, we have mon Mathma, 2:36:16.000 --> 2:36:17.800 we have Vel, we have Sinto, we have Claya, we 2:36:17.800 --> 2:36:20.360 have Dedro, we have Marvel, we have Bix, And I 2:36:20.360 --> 2:36:24.080 think motherhood is something that characters should be allowed to embrace. 2:36:24.080 --> 2:36:26.360 And like motherhoods always had a very tricky relationship with 2:36:26.360 --> 2:36:29.600 Star Wars because of Padme, But like, being a mom 2:36:29.760 --> 2:36:32.560 is not the issue with Bix's character. No, you can 2:36:32.600 --> 2:36:35.280 still critique how she was relegated to becoming like the 2:36:35.320 --> 2:36:38.520 punching bag for the show, but being a mother is 2:36:38.600 --> 2:36:43.640 like not bad. There's a quote from the Palestinian militant 2:36:44.200 --> 2:36:49.200 Leila Khalid like revolution must mean life, also every aspect 2:36:49.200 --> 2:36:53.160 of life, and she specifically referenced motherhood. And like Bix 2:36:53.320 --> 2:36:56.360 is a fighter, she is a survivor. She fights her 2:36:56.360 --> 2:36:59.360 way out of depression and PTSD, and she does spend 2:36:59.520 --> 2:37:03.160 years in age and revolutionary action, and yes, it may 2:37:03.280 --> 2:37:05.400 it may have been nice to see more of that 2:37:05.440 --> 2:37:09.959 revolutionary action on screen. We do see some it might 2:37:09.959 --> 2:37:11.920 have been nice, but this is also write a limited 2:37:11.920 --> 2:37:15.240 series show with a ton of characters, like four hundred 2:37:15.240 --> 2:37:19.039 speaking roles, and yeah, that is not been afforded to everybody, 2:37:19.080 --> 2:37:22.120 and that can be unfortunate. But I think I understand 2:37:22.120 --> 2:37:25.400 what's going on with this character, and I do not 2:37:25.520 --> 2:37:29.560 think the problem is the baby itself. I think that's 2:37:29.600 --> 2:37:33.400 actually fine, and her deciding after years of fighting to 2:37:33.800 --> 2:37:35.680 take like a few years off to have a baby 2:37:36.000 --> 2:37:37.959 should be viewed as a choice that like she's like 2:37:38.040 --> 2:37:40.080 allowed to make. I guess. 2:37:40.360 --> 2:37:43.200 I also think there's there's something like there's a lot 2:37:43.200 --> 2:37:46.280 of agency in the choice to like I'm done, but 2:37:46.360 --> 2:37:49.199 I'm not gonna make that decision for this other person 2:37:49.320 --> 2:37:53.080 for Cassian. Yeah yeah, but I don't know like it 2:37:53.720 --> 2:37:56.160 scanned to me. I do like thinking that in this 2:37:56.240 --> 2:37:58.360 last scene is where like watching these last bits of 2:37:58.400 --> 2:38:00.720 all our characters, you know, not only people have pointed 2:38:00.760 --> 2:38:03.440 out is Cassie and going to be dead in like 2:38:03.480 --> 2:38:08.240 two days, along with Ben Mendelssohn and shortly thereafter grandmav Tarkin, 2:38:08.800 --> 2:38:11.640 but like all the other stuff that's canonically going down, 2:38:11.760 --> 2:38:15.120 like right right as fucking Clea sees that first sunrise, 2:38:15.360 --> 2:38:17.960 Like you have to imagine Han Solo somewhere is doing 2:38:18.000 --> 2:38:21.000 a line off of like a space prostitute in some 2:38:21.080 --> 2:38:24.000 sleazy bar. It's like four am in the morning where 2:38:24.000 --> 2:38:26.800 he is. He hasn't slept in days. You know, Luke 2:38:26.840 --> 2:38:29.000 Skywalker is looking at his on uncle being like, well, 2:38:29.000 --> 2:38:32.000 they're never going to be lit on fire, obviously. Just 2:38:32.080 --> 2:38:33.280 beautiful to. 2:38:33.320 --> 2:38:35.480 Kind of reiterate on the point about how like fascism 2:38:35.480 --> 2:38:37.400 that also eats its own is something that Tony has 2:38:37.480 --> 2:38:41.040 discussed before, specifically in relation to like Cyril and Dedra 2:38:41.480 --> 2:38:42.160 and protographs. 2:38:42.280 --> 2:38:42.400 Right. 2:38:42.840 --> 2:38:46.039 Tony says, like quote, fascism doesn't just take down the oppressed, 2:38:46.080 --> 2:38:48.000 It doesn't just come for the people trying to control. 2:38:48.440 --> 2:38:51.560 It inevitably destroys the people who have worked the hardest 2:38:51.560 --> 2:38:54.560 to build it. And that's been true all through history 2:38:54.560 --> 2:38:57.720 as well. In a different interview, he says, the empire 2:38:57.760 --> 2:39:01.240 is just shattering, fragment and grabbing, destroyed and taking, and 2:39:01.280 --> 2:39:03.520 then the people that are doing it on the imperial 2:39:03.560 --> 2:39:06.240 side are all isolated. They think they're part of something, 2:39:06.280 --> 2:39:08.440 but really they're not. Look at what happens to Dedra, 2:39:08.520 --> 2:39:10.879 Look at what happens to Potographs, Look what happens to 2:39:10.959 --> 2:39:14.039 Cyril Karn he tries to believe in the dream. It's 2:39:14.080 --> 2:39:17.040 the carelessness and the cruelty and the lack of empathy. 2:39:17.280 --> 2:39:20.120 That's what I'm pitching. Even in this little final montage, 2:39:20.120 --> 2:39:22.959 we have this brief shot of Parin, which is interesting. 2:39:23.000 --> 2:39:27.280 That's man Mathma's a strange husband, I guess. And Tony 2:39:27.320 --> 2:39:30.560 has discussed paren as well, and during like the wedding scene, 2:39:30.800 --> 2:39:33.400 we learned that that as a kid, like while he 2:39:33.400 --> 2:39:35.080 was in school, he was kind of a a quote 2:39:35.120 --> 2:39:39.400 unquote political fire brand, and he has sacrificed that a 2:39:39.400 --> 2:39:42.000 little bit. Tony says, quote there are a lot of 2:39:42.040 --> 2:39:46.119 sacrifices in this show, all variety of sacrifices. He's made 2:39:46.160 --> 2:39:49.600 his sacrifice for hedonism. He doesn't look happy in that 2:39:49.800 --> 2:39:52.760 car unquote. Now I do like the little wrap up 2:39:52.800 --> 2:39:55.519 we have we have on parents' character there. 2:39:55.560 --> 2:39:58.280 Although I also love if you'll notice he's with the 2:39:58.320 --> 2:40:01.760 wife of the Golden daughter off too. It's that you 2:40:01.920 --> 2:40:05.279 have to assume has gotten purged at this point because 2:40:05.320 --> 2:40:08.160 they realized that he had been funneling funds to the rebellion. 2:40:08.640 --> 2:40:10.760 But I I do like we even get that this 2:40:10.840 --> 2:40:13.480 is this is the only little private rebellion that he 2:40:13.800 --> 2:40:16.920 can manage right now as he's he's fucking this guy's wife. 2:40:17.040 --> 2:40:19.720 Everyone has, Everyone has their own rebellion. 2:40:19.840 --> 2:40:21.640 Yeah, oh man. 2:40:21.640 --> 2:40:24.520 I guess I finally, I at least for me, I 2:40:24.520 --> 2:40:26.879 guess part of me wanted to see more of like 2:40:26.920 --> 2:40:29.800 the development of Yaffin as like how like revolutionary celles 2:40:29.840 --> 2:40:32.760 come together. And Tony has addressed this as well, quote 2:40:33.360 --> 2:40:35.760 Yavin makes me nervous if you want to know the truth. 2:40:35.800 --> 2:40:38.400 There's things about Yevin that make me nervous, and the 2:40:38.440 --> 2:40:41.200 logic about Yavin that makes me nervous. Even within the 2:40:41.240 --> 2:40:43.920 Star Wars cannon, the security there and how some people 2:40:44.320 --> 2:40:46.320 know about it but the ice Bea doesn't know about it. 2:40:46.360 --> 2:40:48.480 And there's some places where you don't want to poke 2:40:48.520 --> 2:40:50.600 to aggressively because you don't really want to get into 2:40:50.600 --> 2:40:53.280 the undercarriage. That was a place where I didn't really 2:40:53.320 --> 2:40:56.560 want to get into the undercarriage very much. That's that 2:40:56.680 --> 2:41:00.640 is that is understandable. And then finally on Clay and 2:41:00.800 --> 2:41:06.160 Luthen and specifically like Clia's last look there, like in 2:41:06.200 --> 2:41:09.200 the morning after her walk in the rain, after all 2:41:09.240 --> 2:41:13.240 of this, you know, frustration between like Luthen and Yavin. 2:41:14.440 --> 2:41:17.800 Tony says, quote Cleia and Luthen are over amplifying the 2:41:17.840 --> 2:41:20.240 distrust and hate in the same way that some of 2:41:20.280 --> 2:41:22.960 the people on the Alliance are over ramping the disagreement. 2:41:23.080 --> 2:41:25.120 I think one of my favorite moments in that montage 2:41:25.320 --> 2:41:26.720 at the end is when clay A wakes up the 2:41:26.720 --> 2:41:28.600 next morning after her night in the rain, and she 2:41:28.640 --> 2:41:30.640 looks out and sees that there's people running and people 2:41:30.680 --> 2:41:34.320 caring supplies, and she's seen how big Yavin is. And 2:41:34.360 --> 2:41:37.120 there's this mona Lisa's smile that she has that's almost 2:41:37.120 --> 2:41:39.920 beginning to take pleasure in some sense of ownership of 2:41:39.959 --> 2:41:43.480 what she's helped create. She realizes how much of a contributor, 2:41:43.480 --> 2:41:46.360 how much of an investor, she and Luthen are in Yavin. 2:41:46.600 --> 2:41:49.000 She's watching the people there and just a little moment 2:41:49.000 --> 2:41:51.760 of pride comes on her face that she warms up 2:41:51.840 --> 2:41:53.920 just a little bit and begins to take ownership of 2:41:53.959 --> 2:41:57.840 the rebellion. That's everything to me, unquote. 2:41:57.879 --> 2:42:01.000 There's something I love about Yavin. Well, you get to 2:42:01.040 --> 2:42:03.400 see sort of the beauty of it and the beauty 2:42:03.440 --> 2:42:05.160 of what's going to destroy the empire where it's like 2:42:05.200 --> 2:42:09.160 you keep just seeing like people who survived all of 2:42:09.200 --> 2:42:11.680 this shit and make it to yav And like Meshi 2:42:12.320 --> 2:42:15.760 is like the other survivor of the Narkina FIV like 2:42:15.760 --> 2:42:18.200 prison break, right, and he's like one of the people 2:42:18.240 --> 2:42:21.600 going on with the indoor the what's the what's the 2:42:21.640 --> 2:42:24.040 what's the other rebellion twinks name the kid throw the 2:42:24.200 --> 2:42:28.879 kitty through the brit Yeah, Willman, Willman's French resistance girlfriend makes. 2:42:28.680 --> 2:42:31.920 It there, and like all of these like and you. 2:42:31.879 --> 2:42:34.600 Get this this little microcosmos, like all of these people 2:42:34.720 --> 2:42:37.280 who are like the survivors of all of these imperial 2:42:37.360 --> 2:42:40.080 sort of like horrors like have gathered in this place 2:42:40.120 --> 2:42:41.920 and it's like these are the people who are going 2:42:41.959 --> 2:42:44.160 to destroy the empire. And I think something really beautiful 2:42:44.160 --> 2:42:46.720 about that. And then I also think there's a really 2:42:46.720 --> 2:42:49.200 interesting thing in in the Yavun politics we do see, 2:42:49.240 --> 2:42:51.000 which is that like you know, so like I get 2:42:51.080 --> 2:42:53.119 I am notoriously the shows like luth and hater. I'm 2:42:53.120 --> 2:42:54.959 not really a hater of Luthen. I just I just 2:42:55.040 --> 2:42:57.760 don't want the most annoying people in the world to 2:42:57.800 --> 2:43:00.800 try to replicate him in real life. But also like 2:43:01.120 --> 2:43:04.039 the central rebel command is a shit show. It's complete disasterate. 2:43:04.280 --> 2:43:07.360 They're like top down hierarchical command from that council. Those 2:43:07.440 --> 2:43:11.040 people at every every single instance of this attempt to 2:43:11.080 --> 2:43:14.280 lose the boar, Right, they're too pissed off at Luthan 2:43:14.360 --> 2:43:16.840 to like listen to the information that he literally fucking 2:43:16.920 --> 2:43:19.640 died to give them, right, Like this entire operation a 2:43:19.640 --> 2:43:22.040 bit about giving them the information to destroy the super 2:43:22.080 --> 2:43:23.960 weapon that will destroy the empire, and they don't want 2:43:23.959 --> 2:43:25.680 to listen to it. They like in Rogue one, like 2:43:25.680 --> 2:43:28.120 that council tries to surrender, like they literally vote to 2:43:28.160 --> 2:43:29.760 be like yeah, sorry, we can't fight the Empire. 2:43:29.800 --> 2:43:30.480 They're too strong. 2:43:30.640 --> 2:43:33.880 And then like the rebel military defects and this is 2:43:33.959 --> 2:43:36.039 not the fact, like they say disrection, they go right, 2:43:36.080 --> 2:43:39.640 they rebel Yeah, they go rogue and they and they're 2:43:39.640 --> 2:43:40.959 the ones you do this. And I think it's this 2:43:41.040 --> 2:43:43.600 interesting thing here. As much as Gilray doesn't want to 2:43:43.600 --> 2:43:46.960 like touch Yavin that much, there's this there's an interesting 2:43:46.959 --> 2:43:49.520 political dynamic of like yeah, okay, so like we finally 2:43:49.560 --> 2:43:51.800 developed this sort of like centralized political force capable of 2:43:51.800 --> 2:43:54.920 bring all these things together, and they're useless. They are 2:43:54.920 --> 2:43:58.640 worse than useless. They they they nearly destroy the rebellion 2:43:58.680 --> 2:44:00.400 that they had been sort of like trying to together 2:44:00.440 --> 2:44:03.400 on multiple occasions. And they're only stopped by doing that 2:44:03.520 --> 2:44:06.880 by these sort of like unhinged gorilla like people who 2:44:06.959 --> 2:44:09.600 are completely out of control and like these like rogue 2:44:09.640 --> 2:44:12.000 operator people who. 2:44:11.760 --> 2:44:16.120 Are fundamentally like the the inheritors to Luthan's legacy, right, 2:44:16.280 --> 2:44:18.359 like which is Cassie in Yeah. 2:44:17.959 --> 2:44:21.320 By the actual rebels, not the fucking senators. And I 2:44:21.320 --> 2:44:23.560 think that's like a because I've been I've been seeing 2:44:24.480 --> 2:44:27.080 there's been I've been seeing some small attempts to like 2:44:27.120 --> 2:44:28.640 recuperate mon Mathma from this. 2:44:28.680 --> 2:44:31.360 It's like, no, Matha's the only senator who backs the. 2:44:31.560 --> 2:44:34.320 Like go for it, like we're we're carrying out this 2:44:34.440 --> 2:44:36.200 ray to see the desk star plants, like she's the 2:44:36.200 --> 2:44:39.680 only one, right, And I think there's this is this 2:44:39.720 --> 2:44:41.880 is like the fund the actual fundamental break here is 2:44:42.920 --> 2:44:47.280 between these people. Is it's like when when when the 2:44:47.360 --> 2:44:49.879 chips are down, are you willing to fight? And most 2:44:49.879 --> 2:44:53.280 of the sort of like like liberal sort of like 2:44:53.360 --> 2:44:58.720 defecting noble leadership isn't except for Mathma, and she should. 2:45:00.120 --> 2:45:02.560 And so it's like I want to go down fighting, 2:45:02.640 --> 2:45:03.679 and that's. 2:45:03.320 --> 2:45:06.280 The fundament I'm gonna go down swinging. Yeah, yeah. 2:45:06.320 --> 2:45:09.520 And that's the fundamental difference between like someone who politically 2:45:09.520 --> 2:45:12.640 I don't like, like the Marquis Lafayet, like that motherfucker 2:45:12.720 --> 2:45:16.560 went down swinging like he. That man, at every single 2:45:16.560 --> 2:45:19.400 point of his life was always funding an insurrection, was 2:45:19.440 --> 2:45:21.879 always like I will take let's. 2:45:21.760 --> 2:45:23.640 They're a punch. Let's they're a punch. Yeah. 2:45:23.720 --> 2:45:25.360 And then and it's like you can compare that to 2:45:25.400 --> 2:45:28.400 like the German liberals or like like the liberals who 2:45:28.400 --> 2:45:32.240 when Pinochet like takes power, were like, yeah, when when 2:45:32.240 --> 2:45:34.880 Pinochet called them all to like report to like have 2:45:34.959 --> 2:45:36.840 meetings with the government, they all went, yeah, we're gonna 2:45:36.840 --> 2:45:38.480 go report to like talk to the secret police, and 2:45:38.480 --> 2:45:40.400 they all got like killed, right, And that's the different 2:45:40.440 --> 2:45:41.920 between those those two things, and that I think is 2:45:41.920 --> 2:45:45.160 a really really is a crucial political distinction to draw 2:45:45.240 --> 2:45:48.160 out is like it's not even necessarily like your class background, 2:45:48.160 --> 2:45:49.959 it's not even necessarily like what your politics are because 2:45:49.959 --> 2:45:51.360 a lot of these people believe the same things. It's 2:45:51.360 --> 2:45:54.760 like when when the chips come down, will you fight 2:45:54.959 --> 2:45:56.200 or will you try to surrender? 2:45:56.520 --> 2:45:57.000 Yeah? 2:45:57.040 --> 2:45:59.440 And that's the thing I think, I don't know like that, 2:45:59.400 --> 2:46:01.520 that's to me, the best part of and Or is 2:46:01.560 --> 2:46:03.760 like that. And I think that's the part of it 2:46:03.840 --> 2:46:06.040 that's like being set up in this episode that I love. 2:46:06.680 --> 2:46:08.760 The very last thing I'll say, because this has gone 2:46:08.760 --> 2:46:14.000 on wait for quite a while, I'm sorry, is like 2:46:14.120 --> 2:46:16.200 I was talking with a friend after we watch these episodes, 2:46:16.240 --> 2:46:18.520 and we were talking about how this show really, in 2:46:18.560 --> 2:46:23.320 the end is a call for internationalism. Planets are stand 2:46:23.360 --> 2:46:25.920 ins for different countries and different cities, right, and like 2:46:25.959 --> 2:46:29.039 they aren't doing the full revolution on Correscant, like the 2:46:29.080 --> 2:46:33.200 Center for Imperial Power right the Imperial Core. There is 2:46:33.240 --> 2:46:35.959 some organization happening there, right, Like there is people based 2:46:35.959 --> 2:46:39.080 out of there. There's networking, right, like Luten's intel shop 2:46:39.120 --> 2:46:41.800 is there. But most of like the physical arm struggle 2:46:41.879 --> 2:46:44.640 is on other planets. The first base for the Alliance 2:46:44.640 --> 2:46:46.760 is built on the aff and four, but the rebellion 2:46:46.800 --> 2:46:50.680 isn't initially like overthrowing the Empire on Correscant, though through 2:46:50.720 --> 2:46:54.640 their interplanetary efforts, the whole galaxy gets liberated and the 2:46:54.680 --> 2:46:58.600 seat of power can be seized. And that's sort of 2:46:58.640 --> 2:47:02.480 like galaxy wide cooperation mirroring like a worldwide cooperation that 2:47:02.520 --> 2:47:04.520 we have like really like lost in the past past 2:47:04.520 --> 2:47:07.360 few decades. Yeah, I think is one of I think 2:47:07.520 --> 2:47:09.720 one of the points that that should be taken away 2:47:09.760 --> 2:47:11.480 from from and or here. 2:47:12.080 --> 2:47:15.359 Yep, all right, well I think that's our episode. 2:47:15.800 --> 2:47:33.280 Yep, bye everybody. 2:47:42.040 --> 2:47:45.840 This is it could happen here Executive Disorder, our weekly 2:47:45.879 --> 2:47:49.400 newscast covering what's happening in the White House, the crumbling world, 2:47:49.400 --> 2:47:51.680 and what it means for you. I'm Garrison Davis. Today 2:47:51.680 --> 2:47:55.480 I'm joined by Mia Wong, James Stout, and Sophie Lichterman. 2:47:56.320 --> 2:47:59.000 This episode, we are covering the week of May fifteen 2:47:59.160 --> 2:48:03.160 to May twenty. First, Joe Biden has prostate cancer. There's 2:48:03.200 --> 2:48:07.000 anti natalist terrorism, and the DHS is maybe gonna do 2:48:07.040 --> 2:48:10.120 a reality TV show. Probably not, but it's a bad plan. 2:48:10.760 --> 2:48:11.720 How are we doing this week? 2:48:11.840 --> 2:48:13.280 That was a trifector from hell? 2:48:13.920 --> 2:48:15.480 Yeah, so bad. 2:48:15.840 --> 2:48:16.960 This one's so bad. 2:48:17.120 --> 2:48:21.240 It's really I have to do the laughing like right here, 2:48:21.360 --> 2:48:26.280 because good lord, like, oh many many of these weeks 2:48:26.280 --> 2:48:26.600 are bad. 2:48:26.680 --> 2:48:28.040 This one's particularly bad. 2:48:28.600 --> 2:48:31.560 I don't know DHS reality show. 2:48:32.240 --> 2:48:35.760 We'll get to that at the at the ending segment. Sure, Hey, 2:48:35.840 --> 2:48:38.959 this is Gear from the Future cutting in. We recorded 2:48:38.959 --> 2:48:41.640 this a few hours before some pretty major news the 2:48:41.640 --> 2:48:45.280 shooting of two Israeli embassy staff in DC. We will 2:48:45.320 --> 2:48:49.520 be talking about this in next week's Executive Disorder, as 2:48:49.520 --> 2:48:53.400 well as the new budget bill, which targets trans healthcare. 2:48:54.320 --> 2:48:59.000 Now back to the episode. I think let's start with, 2:48:59.240 --> 2:49:03.720 you know, a brief acknowledgment of Joe Biden's prostate cancer. 2:49:03.879 --> 2:49:05.840 What was Jill doing to him? Oh? 2:49:05.879 --> 2:49:08.400 By god, Garrison, you could have said that start at 2:49:08.400 --> 2:49:09.640 the bottom, man, you didn't. 2:49:09.920 --> 2:49:11.640 I'm allowed to say that because I'm the most gay 2:49:11.680 --> 2:49:14.119 guy coded person on the podcast, which is saying something 2:49:15.160 --> 2:49:21.640 so so yes then and now, because we live in 2:49:21.680 --> 2:49:26.080 a truly sick world. Scott Adams couldn't even let. 2:49:26.080 --> 2:49:27.800 He could, He couldn't let him have his moment. 2:49:28.360 --> 2:49:30.720 He couldn't even let Joe Biden have his moment. This 2:49:30.840 --> 2:49:34.600 anti Biden hatred has transcended so far that Scott Adams 2:49:34.640 --> 2:49:37.080 couldn't even let Biden have his moment, and announced the 2:49:37.160 --> 2:49:39.760 same day that Scott Adams has the exact same type 2:49:39.760 --> 2:49:45.920 of prostate cancer. So to two down, Biden down, Dilbert down, 2:49:46.480 --> 2:49:48.800 Big week for prostate cancer and bloy. 2:49:48.879 --> 2:49:50.920 How do you have people been weird about it on 2:49:50.959 --> 2:49:51.560 the internet. 2:49:52.320 --> 2:49:55.080 Yeah, I'm not going to get into how long he 2:49:55.400 --> 2:49:58.720 maybe has known he's had it. He's he's had skin 2:49:58.800 --> 2:50:02.520 cancer moved before. I think that ship has mostly sailed. 2:50:03.080 --> 2:50:05.680 I think our opinions on Biden are pretty are pretty well, 2:50:05.879 --> 2:50:08.320 pretty well documented. Yeah, so I don't think we can 2:50:08.360 --> 2:50:10.240 dedicate much more, much more time to this. 2:50:11.000 --> 2:50:11.280 Okay. 2:50:11.520 --> 2:50:13.120 The one important note that I will say is if 2:50:13.120 --> 2:50:16.920 you have a prostate get check for prostate cancer. Yeah, like, yeah, 2:50:17.080 --> 2:50:17.760 get the screening. 2:50:17.879 --> 2:50:19.119 It's good, it'll help. 2:50:19.000 --> 2:50:22.240 You unless you are over seventy five, in which case 2:50:22.280 --> 2:50:24.800 I think most people don't get screened for it right 2:50:24.840 --> 2:50:25.960 because it's slow gross. 2:50:26.280 --> 2:50:28.480 I'm pretty sure Biden's over seventy five. 2:50:28.760 --> 2:50:31.240 Yeah, that's why somewhat I thought it was somewhat remarkable 2:50:31.480 --> 2:50:32.400 part of the issue there. 2:50:32.680 --> 2:50:34.640 I mean, all I can say is about once a 2:50:34.640 --> 2:50:38.000 month I think about how at the DNC those thank 2:50:38.040 --> 2:50:41.280 you Joe Chance lasted four seconds. 2:50:41.720 --> 2:50:43.760 I have actually been thinking about the thank you Joe 2:50:43.879 --> 2:50:47.279 Chance for a lot of this time yes week. Frankly, 2:50:49.000 --> 2:50:51.040 you had to be there. Yeah, it's one of the 2:50:51.040 --> 2:50:54.560 most it's one of the most horrifying, horrifying things. Hm 2:50:55.160 --> 2:50:57.760 as they let this like very clearly dying old man 2:50:57.760 --> 2:51:00.000 out to pasture, because like you know, kinds are diagnosis 2:51:01.040 --> 2:51:03.400 very clear, he was in some degree of decline. We 2:51:03.440 --> 2:51:05.360 don't need to retread this. This is this is pretty 2:51:05.400 --> 2:51:07.879 well known. But no, I have been thinking about how 2:51:08.320 --> 2:51:11.760 that whole auditorium broke out and chanting thank you Joe 2:51:11.800 --> 2:51:13.440 for like nearly five. 2:51:13.280 --> 2:51:16.039 Minutes, and then the following the rest of the week 2:51:16.560 --> 2:51:18.680 not a single mention it. 2:51:18.600 --> 2:51:24.360 Was done that day. It was wild anyways, So yeah, 2:51:24.520 --> 2:51:29.400 ri Ip Dilbert, I guess let's move on to anti 2:51:29.720 --> 2:51:34.520 natalist terrorism. So I've learned this week that people don't 2:51:34.600 --> 2:51:36.920 know what anti natalism is, which, as someone who grew 2:51:36.959 --> 2:51:39.040 up in Portland, is kind of surprising to me because 2:51:39.120 --> 2:51:43.160 there was some very very prominent, like anti needalist protesters 2:51:43.160 --> 2:51:46.000 who had set up downtown outside of Powell's books pretty frequently, 2:51:46.440 --> 2:51:48.720 and we kind of all grew accustomed to them, and honestly, 2:51:48.720 --> 2:51:51.240 I'm a little bit sympathetic to their arguments. I understand 2:51:51.240 --> 2:51:54.400 where they're coming from. Anti natalism is to belief that 2:51:54.480 --> 2:51:57.640 procreation is unethical. This could be based on the idea 2:51:57.720 --> 2:52:00.119 that there's been like this rapid increase in human population, 2:52:00.280 --> 2:52:03.000 which is done extensive damage to the planet, or that's 2:52:03.000 --> 2:52:07.160 simply being born is inherently a non consensual act, especially 2:52:07.240 --> 2:52:10.080 being born into a world with high levels of suffering. 2:52:10.600 --> 2:52:14.119 So these people opt to do not have children. As 2:52:14.160 --> 2:52:17.959 this ethical standpoint, everyone's entitled to their own choice. You 2:52:17.959 --> 2:52:21.320 don't need to agree with it, but whatever. Now, Interestingly, 2:52:21.640 --> 2:52:25.800 this past weekend there was a quote unquote active terrorism 2:52:26.000 --> 2:52:30.120 that has been linked to anti natalist philosophy. I'm just 2:52:30.160 --> 2:52:33.680 talking about this as it is an instance of kind 2:52:33.680 --> 2:52:39.000 of the brain ratification of this entire society and the 2:52:39.240 --> 2:52:43.080 reditification of terrorism, combined with this growing sense of like 2:52:43.200 --> 2:52:48.320 nihilism driving violent extremist actions. No one was killed except 2:52:48.320 --> 2:52:52.080 for the perpetrator alleged for perpetrator in this incident, but 2:52:52.080 --> 2:52:54.040 I still think this is worth talking about as it 2:52:54.200 --> 2:52:58.120 can be seen as in a sequence of weird terrorism. 2:52:58.200 --> 2:53:00.120 This is something that Roberts can be working on on 2:53:00.920 --> 2:53:03.720 for a piece later later down the line. Right, this 2:53:03.840 --> 2:53:06.039 is not the first car bomb this year. We had 2:53:06.080 --> 2:53:09.879 the Tesla Tesla cyber truck explosion earlier, which was similarly 2:53:10.040 --> 2:53:13.200 kind of a weird, a weird incident. Yeah, that one was. 2:53:13.400 --> 2:53:15.600 I think that one, I think was the official inauguration 2:53:15.640 --> 2:53:18.400 of the years of lead paint which were perpetually living 2:53:18.400 --> 2:53:18.800 in now. 2:53:19.480 --> 2:53:23.080 Yes, yes, I mean the gas leak heear if you will, Yeah, 2:53:23.120 --> 2:53:25.520 so yes. On Saturday May seventeenth, the car bomb went 2:53:25.560 --> 2:53:30.800 off outside a fertility clinic in Palm Springs, California, killing 2:53:30.840 --> 2:53:34.360 the suspect, twenty five year old man named Guy Edwards Barkas. 2:53:34.840 --> 2:53:37.480 The FBI is calling this a quote unquote intentional act 2:53:37.520 --> 2:53:40.640 of terrorism. The clinic was closed when the explosion happened. 2:53:40.879 --> 2:53:43.760 The building was severely damaged, but no embryos were harmed. 2:53:44.560 --> 2:53:48.039 Investigators believe that the suspect attempted to live stream the bombing, 2:53:48.440 --> 2:53:51.320 with a website being found online that appeared to be 2:53:51.400 --> 2:53:54.280 in connection to the incident, where the suspect describes himself 2:53:54.320 --> 2:53:57.240 as a quot unquote pro mortalist. 2:53:57.760 --> 2:54:00.199 Slightly slightly different from man. 2:54:00.800 --> 2:54:01.000 Yeah. 2:54:01.000 --> 2:54:01.280 Correct. 2:54:01.440 --> 2:54:05.119 It is more of an affirmative version of anti natalism, 2:54:06.560 --> 2:54:09.959 where you want to actually take concrete steps to like 2:54:10.120 --> 2:54:13.800 decrease the population of the planet, not necessarily in a 2:54:13.840 --> 2:54:17.199 way that's like promoting like the mass killing of individuals. 2:54:17.920 --> 2:54:21.400 He says, quote understand, your death is already guarantee, and 2:54:21.440 --> 2:54:24.000 you can thank your parents for that one. All a 2:54:24.080 --> 2:54:26.640 pro mortalist is saying is let's make it happen sooner 2:54:26.840 --> 2:54:30.720 rather than later to prevent your future suffering and more importantly, 2:54:30.760 --> 2:54:34.600 the suffering your existence will cause to all other sentient beings. 2:54:35.440 --> 2:54:37.600 That's his definition of a promortalist. It can be linked 2:54:37.600 --> 2:54:40.360 to other philosophies that encourage like self harm and ending 2:54:40.400 --> 2:54:43.440 your own life as a conscious choice. On this website, 2:54:43.440 --> 2:54:47.240 he discussed his goal of quote sterilizing this planet of 2:54:47.280 --> 2:54:51.280 the disease of life unquote great and declared the need 2:54:51.360 --> 2:54:56.160 for a quote unquote war against pro lifers. His website 2:54:56.200 --> 2:55:04.199 also highlights other philosophies such as negative utilitarianism, ethlism, abolitionist veganism. Quote. Basically, 2:55:04.200 --> 2:55:08.600 philosophies that have realized religion is are worded that there 2:55:08.680 --> 2:55:13.080 is objective value in the universe and it lies in 2:55:13.120 --> 2:55:17.160 the harm being experienced by sentient beings. So although it 2:55:17.200 --> 2:55:20.400 may seem quote unquote dark, it's the polar opposite of 2:55:20.520 --> 2:55:27.200 nonsense like nihilism unquote. Negative utilitarianism is something that comes 2:55:27.280 --> 2:55:29.760 up a few times on his site as well. This 2:55:29.920 --> 2:55:33.039 is the viewpoint that instead of positive utilitarianism where we 2:55:33.040 --> 2:55:35.880 try to maximize, you know, human pleasure, this is trying 2:55:35.920 --> 2:55:39.560 to minimize suffering, human suffering and like the suffering tied 2:55:39.600 --> 2:55:43.280 to existence and the like aggurate suffering as well as 2:55:43.400 --> 2:55:45.160 if you if there's more people and there's going to 2:55:45.200 --> 2:55:48.800 be more suffering, so you should both make choices in 2:55:48.840 --> 2:55:51.640 your own life that that may that may limit your suffering, 2:55:51.680 --> 2:55:54.320 but also make sure that you don't reproduce, because then 2:55:54.400 --> 2:55:57.320 even more suffering will happen because of your actions through 2:55:57.400 --> 2:55:58.720 your children. 2:55:58.800 --> 2:56:01.119 This is the most bare is shit I've ever heard 2:56:01.200 --> 2:56:03.640 of my entire goddamn very West Coast. 2:56:03.720 --> 2:56:07.400 This is yeah, like twenty nine Palms is not It's 2:56:07.480 --> 2:56:08.320 not the West Coast. 2:56:08.520 --> 2:56:10.200 Like a lot of this is in conversation with like 2:56:10.240 --> 2:56:15.680 the rationalist subculture rationalist it's like it offers different solutions. 2:56:15.720 --> 2:56:18.080 These these people shouldn't be allowed to use computers for 2:56:18.160 --> 2:56:21.920 like fifty years, Like just a band on California using computers. 2:56:22.200 --> 2:56:25.400 This is all like deeply online stuff like these are 2:56:25.640 --> 2:56:30.120 these are popular websites, subreddits like YouTube channels. These are 2:56:30.120 --> 2:56:32.960 people who are dealing with like, you know, pretty intense 2:56:33.000 --> 2:56:37.760 existentialism depression, who then channel it into this like semi 2:56:37.879 --> 2:56:43.160 niche like online community and online philosophy. Now, Guy's best friend, 2:56:43.200 --> 2:56:48.879 a self described quote vegan rad femme, anti datist, recently 2:56:49.120 --> 2:56:52.560 arranged her own suicide by having her boyfriend to shoot 2:56:52.600 --> 2:56:53.240 her while she. 2:56:53.280 --> 2:56:55.640 Was what what what? 2:56:55.840 --> 2:56:56.600 Correct? 2:56:57.000 --> 2:57:01.320 Yes, this was This was the themer's best friend who 2:57:01.760 --> 2:57:06.200 died very recently, like last month. And Guy claims that 2:57:06.240 --> 2:57:10.439 they were both quote unquote anti sex missandrists with borderline 2:57:10.480 --> 2:57:13.959 personality disorder, and he admits that her death quote unquote 2:57:14.040 --> 2:57:18.560 put him over the edge. 2:57:19.000 --> 2:57:23.839 This is the most. This is the most online like 2:57:23.840 --> 2:57:32.120 like like best best friend anti natalist has her boyfriend 2:57:32.280 --> 2:57:35.199 shoot her is the most. 2:57:35.120 --> 2:57:38.440 Even though her her anti natalist tumblr page has like 2:57:38.560 --> 2:57:43.040 women loving women, anti gender ideology, miss andry stuff and 2:57:43.120 --> 2:57:45.360 yet still has a sister gender boyfriend. In many such cases, 2:57:46.920 --> 2:57:48.520 so yeah, you can see how this type of a 2:57:48.560 --> 2:57:51.080 community gets like fostered, and people make online friends and 2:57:51.080 --> 2:57:53.600 then encourage their own self destruction. Yeah, you have to 2:57:53.640 --> 2:57:56.280 destroy the Internet. A quote that he has on his 2:57:56.320 --> 2:57:58.920 website is quote I've known for years now that I 2:57:59.000 --> 2:58:01.320 wasn't going to allow myself to make it past my 2:58:01.400 --> 2:58:04.600 twenties unquote, And like this is a sentiment I hear 2:58:04.680 --> 2:58:07.320 even a lot of like young people saying, is it's 2:58:07.440 --> 2:58:10.520 like this like belief that they're not going to survive 2:58:10.640 --> 2:58:12.800 their twenties, Like like their belief that like the world 2:58:12.879 --> 2:58:15.800 is so bent on destruction that I'm probably not going 2:58:15.879 --> 2:58:17.280 to make it out of my twenties right now, and 2:58:17.320 --> 2:58:19.720 that that that changes the kind of choices that young 2:58:19.760 --> 2:58:22.279 people are making. And this is this is getting increasingly common. 2:58:22.720 --> 2:58:24.879 Yeah, for sure. I think it's a very different world 2:58:24.879 --> 2:58:28.320 to be growing up in than like the late teenage, 2:58:28.360 --> 2:58:31.320 early twenties of you know, like millennial people. 2:58:31.120 --> 2:58:33.879 The millennial world. It's very it's very different. Yeah, And 2:58:33.920 --> 2:58:36.720 you even had manifestations of this in that millennial era, right, 2:58:36.760 --> 2:58:39.599 I think it got kind of pushed into this like 2:58:39.600 --> 2:58:43.080 like nihilistic school shooter culture, which you still see remnants 2:58:43.120 --> 2:58:45.360 of now in the true krime of community. There is 2:58:45.600 --> 2:58:48.800 some crossover between an act like this and and some 2:58:48.840 --> 2:58:52.120 of like the school shooter fandom, the Columbiner stuff, especially 2:58:52.120 --> 2:58:55.240 considering the resurgence of Columbiner culture that we're currently seeing 2:58:55.320 --> 2:58:58.400 right now in the United States. But yeah, the general 2:58:58.440 --> 2:59:02.160 sense of like widespread dread and the interconnectedness of this 2:59:02.440 --> 2:59:03.600 is more unique. 2:59:04.160 --> 2:59:04.360 Okay. 2:59:04.400 --> 2:59:06.520 I keep thinking about that Hunter S. Thompson quote about 2:59:06.560 --> 2:59:08.800 like those poor bastard troop bonever nine to eleven don't 2:59:08.840 --> 2:59:09.680 know the party's over. 2:59:10.040 --> 2:59:13.560 The party is over, and yeah, welcome to help. So 2:59:14.240 --> 2:59:17.120 the suspect's dad said to reporters that guy had a 2:59:17.200 --> 2:59:20.160 childhood obsession with pyrotechnics. He set the family home on 2:59:20.240 --> 2:59:23.440 fire and burned it down he was nine. He made rockets, 2:59:23.520 --> 2:59:26.960 stink bombs, smoke bombs as a child. Videos on YouTube, 2:59:27.160 --> 2:59:30.400 likely posted by Guy show m eighties exploding in the desert, 2:59:31.000 --> 2:59:33.440 a hydrogen balloon being set a blaze, and a bucket 2:59:33.440 --> 2:59:35.400 of radioactive uranium. 2:59:35.120 --> 2:59:37.480 Or is that what did he obtain that like out 2:59:37.480 --> 2:59:38.400 there in Wonda Valley. 2:59:38.720 --> 2:59:42.840 This is still being investigated. His voice in these videos 2:59:42.879 --> 2:59:47.000 matches the thirty minute audio manifesto explaining his motivation for 2:59:47.040 --> 2:59:50.560 the attack, saying quote, Basically, it just comes down to 2:59:50.959 --> 2:59:54.120 I'm angry that I exist and that you know, nobody 2:59:54.120 --> 2:59:57.560 got my consent to bring me here. Basically, I'm anti 2:59:57.680 --> 3:00:00.920 life and IVF is kind of like the epitome of 3:00:01.040 --> 3:00:02.439 pro life ideology. 3:00:03.480 --> 3:00:06.680 This is out there, is. 3:00:06.600 --> 3:00:09.280 There any information on the I'm just because a lot 3:00:09.320 --> 3:00:12.240 of explosives and other munitions have gone missing. Twenty nine 3:00:12.240 --> 3:00:16.240 Palms people, that familiar is a town near ish to 3:00:16.280 --> 3:00:19.879 Palm Springs, nearer to Joshua Tree. There's a pretty big 3:00:19.879 --> 3:00:23.280 military base. Yeah. Yeah, it's the big marine Corde, like 3:00:23.320 --> 3:00:24.560 desert warfare training. 3:00:24.800 --> 3:00:28.160 Explosives have gone missing there before. The basic claims that 3:00:28.160 --> 3:00:31.680 they've been recovered. It is unclear what explosives he used 3:00:31.720 --> 3:00:34.440 at this point. It was a pretty large explosion. Investigators 3:00:34.440 --> 3:00:37.480 are low key impressed at this explosion, like. 3:00:37.440 --> 3:00:39.640 It was it was what they what they said in 3:00:39.240 --> 3:00:41.320 that official statement. 3:00:41.080 --> 3:00:43.440 If you read between the lines, they're like surprised at 3:00:43.440 --> 3:00:45.880 how effective this car bomb was. Again, this was a 3:00:45.920 --> 3:00:47.520 guy who spent a lot of time online, a lot 3:00:47.520 --> 3:00:49.720 of time on Reddit. It seems like he got obsessed 3:00:49.720 --> 3:00:52.320 with this. He had a fascination with explosives at a 3:00:52.360 --> 3:00:55.720 young age. So that obsession combined with this anti natalist 3:00:55.800 --> 3:00:59.879 obsession and this urge for self destruction manifested in this action. 3:01:00.400 --> 3:01:00.760 Yeah. 3:01:00.800 --> 3:01:05.000 This this week, Reddit banned anti natalist anti life subreddit 3:01:05.280 --> 3:01:08.480 allegedly frequented by bomber. Dude. 3:01:08.520 --> 3:01:10.000 Just want to say that this is I think the 3:01:10.040 --> 3:01:13.560 only IVS clinic in the Kachiello Valley, So like for 3:01:13.640 --> 3:01:16.640 people who are accessing those services, that's a serious disruption, 3:01:16.920 --> 3:01:19.320 right M Yeah, that sucks. 3:01:20.000 --> 3:01:22.680 So I, me and Robert are going to talk more 3:01:22.720 --> 3:01:25.520 about kind of this trend that we're seeing in in 3:01:25.600 --> 3:01:29.240 extremism or in extremist acts. I still don't like the 3:01:29.280 --> 3:01:31.800 nihilist buy an extremism term, but we are seeing elements 3:01:31.800 --> 3:01:34.240 of that getting more and more common, especially combined with 3:01:34.240 --> 3:01:36.680 the true crime community, which essentially tries to encourage young 3:01:36.720 --> 3:01:38.879 girls to commit school shootings. 3:01:39.320 --> 3:01:41.760 M h yeah, I guess. To finish up, I just 3:01:41.800 --> 3:01:43.560 want to say that, like, I know, it's a really 3:01:43.560 --> 3:01:47.120 hard time right now. A lot of people are trying 3:01:47.120 --> 3:01:49.879 to find wayte of cope or feeling like they can't cope, 3:01:50.200 --> 3:01:51.280 or feel that they're not enough. 3:01:51.360 --> 3:01:55.080 I guess hopelessness. This sort of like existential nihilism. 3:01:55.320 --> 3:01:57.480 Yeah, And I'll combine that with a lot of people 3:01:57.480 --> 3:02:00.280 who work for the government fundly finding themselves out of work, 3:02:00.280 --> 3:02:02.920 and you know the economic pressure that puts on people, 3:02:02.920 --> 3:02:05.320 and I understand that people are pretty in a tough 3:02:05.360 --> 3:02:08.800 spot right now who want to save very briefly obviously, 3:02:08.800 --> 3:02:10.560 like the world is more beautiful with you in it. 3:02:11.000 --> 3:02:15.480 And if you're experiencing suicidal ideation or mental health struggles. 3:02:15.520 --> 3:02:18.560 A couple of resources I want to suggest the Fireweed 3:02:18.600 --> 3:02:22.960 Collective and the Jane Adams Collective. Adams spelled with two d's. 3:02:23.040 --> 3:02:26.520 There a double Dams. We will have links to both 3:02:26.560 --> 3:02:28.320 of them in the Showdoues. You can also put them 3:02:28.320 --> 3:02:30.560 into Dug dut go. And they were the first responses 3:02:30.600 --> 3:02:33.279 that came up for me. If you need those resources, 3:02:33.600 --> 3:02:34.720 reach out to those people. 3:02:35.120 --> 3:02:37.920 Yeah, it's good to see the sunrise, and it's better 3:02:38.000 --> 3:02:40.320 to see the sunrise with everyone you love in it. 3:02:40.720 --> 3:02:43.680 And yeah, that's that's a thing that you can make 3:02:43.680 --> 3:02:44.640 sure you do every day. 3:02:46.640 --> 3:02:48.720 All Right, thank you, James thanking me. We're gonna go 3:02:48.720 --> 3:03:04.640 and break and then come back to discuss immigration. All right, 3:03:04.720 --> 3:03:09.440 we're back, James. I see the amount of text you have. 3:03:09.600 --> 3:03:13.600 This is a very long section jail of text. 3:03:13.840 --> 3:03:17.520 I assume this is all good news, so let's hear it. 3:03:17.760 --> 3:03:20.840 All right, Garrison, I'm so glad that you have seen 3:03:20.840 --> 3:03:22.879 my wall of text. Because I have been looking at 3:03:22.879 --> 3:03:26.320 court documents for days. So much fun on pacer. 3:03:26.840 --> 3:03:29.080 You have been pacer posting in the group chats. 3:03:29.120 --> 3:03:32.400 Oh yeah, yeah, I have been big the court listener 3:03:32.959 --> 3:03:35.760 as well. Okay, so this is one of the more 3:03:35.800 --> 3:03:37.959 insane things I've seen on pacer. In a minute, I'm 3:03:37.959 --> 3:03:41.080 talking about the case here of mister NM, who was 3:03:41.160 --> 3:03:44.680 identified at some point, and we'll get an m NM. 3:03:44.760 --> 3:03:44.960 Yeah. 3:03:44.959 --> 3:03:48.360 It's not uncommon for migrancy in these kind of high 3:03:48.360 --> 3:03:50.800 profile cases to be anonymised where they can right, just 3:03:50.840 --> 3:03:54.440 for their safety. So NM received a final removal order 3:03:54.480 --> 3:03:58.119 in Nebraska in twenty twenty three, and on the seventh 3:03:58.160 --> 3:04:02.039 of May, DHS attempted to report to Libya. You'll remember 3:04:02.080 --> 3:04:05.520 that we colored that week's ed right. They did not 3:04:05.959 --> 3:04:08.800 manage to do that. And in this court case, we've 3:04:08.840 --> 3:04:12.080 seen from another detainee that one of these detainees was 3:04:12.080 --> 3:04:14.440 given a document to sign and told that he would 3:04:14.480 --> 3:04:18.560 quote be a free man in Libya after signing. Obviously 3:04:18.840 --> 3:04:20.680 unclear how one can be a free man when one 3:04:20.720 --> 3:04:22.720 is just dumped into a country, when one does speak 3:04:22.720 --> 3:04:25.280 the language, has no contact, there is a war. 3:04:25.400 --> 3:04:27.080 Doesn't make sense in any way. 3:04:27.400 --> 3:04:29.920 This man is not from Libya, that is correct. 3:04:30.000 --> 3:04:31.120 None of these people are Libyan. 3:04:31.640 --> 3:04:35.400 And again, whenever seven someone says the word Libya, you 3:04:35.480 --> 3:04:38.160 have to figure out which Libyan government you are talking about, 3:04:38.200 --> 3:04:39.840 because there are multiple of them, because there is a 3:04:39.879 --> 3:04:41.760 fucking civil war going on there right now. 3:04:41.920 --> 3:04:45.320 So yeah, and whenever someone talks about people being free 3:04:45.320 --> 3:04:48.040 in Libya, we should bear in mind that migrants are 3:04:48.120 --> 3:04:52.360 literally sold into slavery in Libya by both governments. Yes, 3:04:52.959 --> 3:04:56.080 M's English is limited. His main language is Karenne, which 3:04:56.120 --> 3:04:58.439 of course is a language that people speak in Cartule, 3:04:58.959 --> 3:05:01.760 the karen Home Lang, which part of Myanmar. On the 3:05:01.840 --> 3:05:04.039 nineteenth of this month, that's two days ago, I sent 3:05:04.080 --> 3:05:06.800 a notification to his lawyer saying that they'd read him 3:05:06.800 --> 3:05:09.720 a notice of removal in English that they were removing 3:05:09.800 --> 3:05:13.120 him to South Africa. Ten minutes later, they attempted to 3:05:13.160 --> 3:05:16.080 recall this message, and then later that same day they 3:05:16.160 --> 3:05:18.520 notified his lawyer that they'd once again read notice of 3:05:18.600 --> 3:05:21.520 removal to him in English that he was being removed 3:05:21.560 --> 3:05:25.200 to South Sudan. South Sudan the world's youngest country, if 3:05:25.200 --> 3:05:27.640 we're not familiar, a country that is in which conflict 3:05:27.680 --> 3:05:30.360 is escalating as we speak, government carrying out a barrel 3:05:30.400 --> 3:05:34.520 bombing campaign this very week. His council set up a 3:05:34.600 --> 3:05:37.480 video meeting at nine am on the twentieth, but just 3:05:37.560 --> 3:05:40.119 before that meeting, his council found out that he had 3:05:40.160 --> 3:05:44.680 already been removed. Mister m had refused to sign the 3:05:44.800 --> 3:05:49.000 order of removal to South Sudan. And we're seeing right 3:05:49.040 --> 3:05:53.000 now in a court case it's a class action. Mister 3:05:53.120 --> 3:05:55.440 NM is one of the members of the class right 3:05:55.560 --> 3:05:58.680 that there was a preliminary injunction against these people being 3:05:58.720 --> 3:06:00.800 removed because they are the same people who the Trump 3:06:00.840 --> 3:06:04.520 administration previously tried to remove to Libya, and at this 3:06:04.560 --> 3:06:07.840 point they tried to remove them to South Sudan. Before 3:06:07.879 --> 3:06:09.879 they are sent to these places, they're supposed to have 3:06:09.920 --> 3:06:14.039 a reasonable fear screening right. That is where someone can 3:06:14.480 --> 3:06:17.360 articulate if they have a reasonable fear of being removed 3:06:17.400 --> 3:06:20.520 to that country, right like if they will be persecuted there, 3:06:20.760 --> 3:06:24.600 they're likely to face torture or violence, or or be 3:06:24.680 --> 3:06:27.560 picked on because of who they are. Right then they're 3:06:27.560 --> 3:06:30.360 supposed to have a fifteen day opportunity to submit a 3:06:30.400 --> 3:06:33.320 motion to reopen. If the Department of Home out Security 3:06:33.400 --> 3:06:35.960 finds that they don't have reasonable fear. Right, So they're 3:06:35.959 --> 3:06:38.320 supposed to be this process where they can say I 3:06:38.400 --> 3:06:40.080 have a reasonable fear of going there, if I go 3:06:40.160 --> 3:06:42.560 there or be persecuted, and if the AHPs says nobody 3:06:42.560 --> 3:06:44.720 don't believe you, then they have fifteen days to submit 3:06:45.640 --> 3:06:46.440 more evidence. 3:06:46.600 --> 3:06:49.560 Right, are they being allowed to do that or no? 3:06:49.560 --> 3:06:53.480 No, got it? That is what this case hinges on. Right. 3:06:53.560 --> 3:06:57.440 So they were informed possibly hours before they were moved 3:06:57.440 --> 3:06:59.760 to South Sudan that they were being moved to South Sudan. 3:07:00.600 --> 3:07:02.800 Then they were taken to a secure facility where they 3:07:02.800 --> 3:07:05.760 couldn't contact their lawyers. And in at least the case 3:07:05.760 --> 3:07:08.320 of mister NM, he had scheduled an appointment with his 3:07:08.400 --> 3:07:10.120 lawyer and was deported before he could do so. 3:07:10.320 --> 3:07:14.080 Right, And this saven a few times before as well. Yeah, 3:07:14.200 --> 3:07:16.839 that's correct in the past few months. 3:07:16.600 --> 3:07:20.480 That's right. Yeah, And specifically, there was a priminary injunction 3:07:20.560 --> 3:07:24.840 against this right. So, quoting from Judge Murphy, who is 3:07:25.040 --> 3:07:27.560 judging the Massachusetts District Court where this is being held, 3:07:27.920 --> 3:07:32.040 the government's actions are unquestionably violative of this court order. 3:07:32.280 --> 3:07:34.480 The government said they have complied with my order because 3:07:34.480 --> 3:07:36.920 they didn't hear anyone yelling at their jailers that they 3:07:36.959 --> 3:07:42.040 are afraid to go to South Sudan. This is clearly insufficient. Yeah, 3:07:42.400 --> 3:07:45.240 so what he's articulating here is like this chance to 3:07:45.879 --> 3:07:48.879 articulate reasonable fear right. I do want to point out 3:07:48.920 --> 3:07:51.600 that in Biden's asylum ban that he passed in twenty 3:07:51.600 --> 3:07:56.080 twenty four, they move from a question of are you 3:07:56.240 --> 3:07:58.360 afraid to go back to your home country to what's 3:07:58.400 --> 3:08:01.560 called a shout test where the migrant has to articulate 3:08:01.600 --> 3:08:04.920 that reasonable fear unprompted right to have a chance at 3:08:04.959 --> 3:08:08.160 asylum in the United States. So it's again, like all 3:08:08.160 --> 3:08:10.080 these immigration things, I'm not saying things what the same 3:08:10.160 --> 3:08:12.240 under Biden, by I'm saying that there is a pathway 3:08:12.280 --> 3:08:14.120 to how we got here, and it goes through Biden's 3:08:14.160 --> 3:08:14.880 executive boarder. 3:08:15.320 --> 3:08:17.520 And like Miller is very willing to use anything in 3:08:17.560 --> 3:08:18.240 his toolbox. 3:08:18.360 --> 3:08:23.480 Yeah, absolutely, yeah, yeah, and anything that look for decades, 3:08:23.760 --> 3:08:27.360 castal liberalism has built a series of tools which now 3:08:27.440 --> 3:08:31.080 lie in the hands of a very illiberal government right, 3:08:31.120 --> 3:08:34.520 and they are being used against people for whom those 3:08:34.520 --> 3:08:38.760 who supported castor liberalism may have some sympathy. That is 3:08:38.800 --> 3:08:39.560 how we got here. 3:08:39.680 --> 3:08:40.680 That's a good way of putting in. 3:08:41.440 --> 3:08:45.200 So the situation we are at right now is that 3:08:45.240 --> 3:08:48.600 these people were flown seemingly in a Gulf Stream jet. 3:08:49.040 --> 3:08:52.280 Gillian Brockhell, who's a formula Washington Post reporter who are 3:08:52.280 --> 3:08:54.360 going to have on the show next week, was able 3:08:54.400 --> 3:08:56.680 to identify this jet based on where it took off 3:08:56.800 --> 3:09:01.039 and its call sign. It's stopped in Shannon in Ireland. Notably, 3:09:01.160 --> 3:09:04.440 Shannon is an Irish civilian airport, right, It's not a 3:09:04.600 --> 3:09:08.600 US air Force base. This does raise some questions within Ireland, 3:09:08.800 --> 3:09:12.600 within Irish politics about Irish neutrality here. Right. The jet 3:09:12.720 --> 3:09:16.400 then flew onto Djibouti, which it is believed is where 3:09:16.400 --> 3:09:20.720 the migrants are right now, in court the discussion probably 3:09:20.760 --> 3:09:24.560 half an hour before we recorded this, DHS is claiming 3:09:25.160 --> 3:09:29.040 that they can do their credible fear interviews there on 3:09:29.120 --> 3:09:32.040 the tarmac in this plane, which people are saying is 3:09:32.080 --> 3:09:34.840 in Jibouti. Right, there's some suspicion that's in Djibouti. DHS 3:09:34.879 --> 3:09:37.480 is claiming that the location of the plane is classified, 3:09:38.080 --> 3:09:41.840 but this widespread belief that this plane is currently in Djibouti, 3:09:41.879 --> 3:09:44.800 including as I say, Julian was first and y T 3:09:45.000 --> 3:09:47.560 published something that didn't credit her, should have credited her. 3:09:48.080 --> 3:09:50.400 So to do the credible fear into you, right, they 3:09:50.400 --> 3:09:51.920 have to have a chance to research what will happen 3:09:51.959 --> 3:09:54.080 to them in South Sudan. They have to have access 3:09:54.120 --> 3:09:56.880 to a lawyer. Most of these people like mister NM 3:09:57.160 --> 3:10:00.200 will also have to have a translator. Right. Then will 3:10:00.200 --> 3:10:02.960 also have to have privacy, right, their credible fear may 3:10:02.959 --> 3:10:04.840 be something they don't want to share with everyone else 3:10:04.879 --> 3:10:05.600 on that plane. 3:10:05.360 --> 3:10:06.840 Because that could also put them in danger. 3:10:07.040 --> 3:10:12.200 Yes, also just like that's a baffling place to suggest 3:10:12.200 --> 3:10:16.760 somebody have that intimate or private of our conversation. It's 3:10:16.840 --> 3:10:20.280 just such a violation of their human rights. 3:10:20.520 --> 3:10:24.920 Yeah, many human rights being violated here. So yeah, I 3:10:24.959 --> 3:10:27.600 mean the US has a big base in Djibouti, right, 3:10:27.640 --> 3:10:30.160 so I imagine that's why they're there. Remember that they 3:10:30.160 --> 3:10:32.959 have that fifteen day period, So if DHS finds that 3:10:33.000 --> 3:10:37.560 they don't have credible fear, then they will have fifteen 3:10:37.640 --> 3:10:40.920 days right to bring another to reopen that. Where will 3:10:40.959 --> 3:10:44.360 they be housed somewhere in fucking Jibouti presumably if that's 3:10:44.360 --> 3:10:47.800 where they are, right, There are many many unanswered questions 3:10:47.879 --> 3:10:52.000 at this point. Now, last night we learned that one 3:10:52.040 --> 3:10:54.959 of the Burmese people, it appears that there are two 3:10:54.959 --> 3:10:58.000 Burmese people. We know this because the Department of Homeland 3:10:58.040 --> 3:11:02.720 Security today started tweeting shots of these people Jesus yeah 3:11:02.760 --> 3:11:06.920 and uh wow yeah, claiming that they were convicted of 3:11:07.000 --> 3:11:11.320 various crimes. Among them were Tubamese men and m appears 3:11:11.320 --> 3:11:13.720 to be Neio Miant and the other appears to be 3:11:13.840 --> 3:11:16.480 Cure Mea. Both of these men have been accused of 3:11:16.560 --> 3:11:19.320 various a big convicted, I believe of sex crimes. That's 3:11:19.360 --> 3:11:21.879 where they got their removal orders. Other people among the 3:11:21.920 --> 3:11:24.440 dozen or so people on the plane have been convicted 3:11:24.440 --> 3:11:26.560 of some of them like one of them is South 3:11:26.560 --> 3:11:29.640 Sudanese and he was convicted of removing the serial number 3:11:29.640 --> 3:11:34.600 from a firearm and of armed robbery, others, murder, and 3:11:34.879 --> 3:11:39.040 various other fairly serious crimes. Right, none of that means 3:11:39.040 --> 3:11:41.280 that you should just get dumped in seulth Sudan. Right, 3:11:41.280 --> 3:11:43.840 that's not a punishment in US, Lord, it is not 3:11:44.520 --> 3:11:47.000 a morally or legally acceptable thing to do. 3:11:47.280 --> 3:11:51.400 It's just truly baffling, honestly, Like, that's that's what they're doing, 3:11:52.040 --> 3:11:52.800 that's the move. 3:11:53.680 --> 3:11:56.120 Yeah, the move is to send Themselve Sudan, where it's 3:11:56.120 --> 3:11:58.600 worth noting that South Sudan's government have said it will 3:11:58.600 --> 3:12:02.000 probably send these people back to their home countries. Evidently 3:12:02.000 --> 3:12:04.200 the reason they are not being sent there is because 3:12:04.320 --> 3:12:06.960 they have articulated a fear of going there or they 3:12:07.000 --> 3:12:10.560 have protection it's called withholding of removal right, so they 3:12:10.560 --> 3:12:14.520 can't be removed to that country. And basically that is 3:12:14.560 --> 3:12:18.440 where we're at. Evdans they manage to remove apparently somebody 3:12:18.480 --> 3:12:22.439 to Burma today or late last night. I'm still waiting 3:12:22.600 --> 3:12:28.320 on my sources in mean Martin confirm that the Burmese 3:12:28.360 --> 3:12:30.320 hunter is as leaky as a sieve. Right, If those 3:12:30.320 --> 3:12:32.200 people are land that we will know about it pretty soon. 3:12:32.640 --> 3:12:36.360 We have pretty good sources in Burma, so if that happens, 3:12:36.360 --> 3:12:39.960 we will know. They also discussed another party, right, someone 3:12:40.000 --> 3:12:43.720 who goes by OCG a gay Guatemalon man who assertain 3:12:43.720 --> 3:12:47.600 credible fear of being returned while in immigration court. He 3:12:47.680 --> 3:12:51.000 was deported to Mexico, where he also asserted in credible fear. 3:12:51.400 --> 3:12:54.360 Mexico gave him a choice of remaining Mexico going to Guatemala. 3:12:54.400 --> 3:12:56.640 He went to Guatemala, where he is now in hiding. 3:12:57.520 --> 3:13:00.680 The DHS claimed he said he didn't have credible fear 3:13:01.040 --> 3:13:03.199 and then later reverse it, and so they didn't ask. 3:13:03.760 --> 3:13:06.160 So the judge is now asking how on earth they 3:13:06.200 --> 3:13:09.040 got this conclusion he didn't have credible fear and deported him. 3:13:09.480 --> 3:13:11.760 He's saying he might potentially put DHS officers on the 3:13:11.800 --> 3:13:16.760 stand to explain how this happened. In other immigration use 3:13:17.640 --> 3:13:21.519 ice just today, this is Wednesday has apparently been dismissing 3:13:21.640 --> 3:13:24.400 court cases against people who turn up before hearing an 3:13:24.440 --> 3:13:28.000 immigration court and then immediately arresting them. What the fuck? 3:13:28.640 --> 3:13:32.840 Right there is this fucking cross. Yeah, Like it's a 3:13:32.879 --> 3:13:35.200 little unclear what the move is here, but clearly they're 3:13:35.200 --> 3:13:37.600 trying to remove them in a more expeditious way. Right, 3:13:37.600 --> 3:13:39.960 they have a court case, try to remove this person, 3:13:40.040 --> 3:13:40.840 they're saying. 3:13:40.760 --> 3:13:42.640 Because the court case has, like you know, a certain 3:13:42.640 --> 3:13:44.440 amount of time needs to process. If they dismissed the 3:13:44.480 --> 3:13:45.720 court case, then they. 3:13:45.640 --> 3:13:46.800 Might have a right to appeal. 3:13:46.959 --> 3:13:49.840 And yeah, but if it's dismissed, then they can expedite 3:13:49.879 --> 3:13:52.080 other like non judicial removal. 3:13:52.160 --> 3:13:54.800 Yeah, well they can do what they're doing here. Yeah, 3:13:54.879 --> 3:13:57.200 they can try and get and run people out before 3:13:57.200 --> 3:13:59.240 they have a chance to get to their lawyer right like. 3:13:59.560 --> 3:14:01.400 That seems to be the underlying team of all of 3:14:01.440 --> 3:14:03.480 these things, which is that your due process and your 3:14:03.560 --> 3:14:06.480 rights under the law are too time consuming, so we're 3:14:06.520 --> 3:14:08.680 going to try and make and run around your rights 3:14:08.959 --> 3:14:13.240 by sending you to somewhere fucking horrific. That is the 3:14:13.360 --> 3:14:18.520 underlying theme here. Unfortunately, this removal will likely now affect 3:14:18.520 --> 3:14:21.760 a lot more people because a Trump administration has removed 3:14:21.879 --> 3:14:26.000 the twenty twenty three Temporary Protected Status for Nezuelan people. 3:14:26.520 --> 3:14:30.240 We talked about TPSS in my Darian series. The TPS 3:14:30.280 --> 3:14:33.560 provides protection from deportation to people who are already present 3:14:33.600 --> 3:14:36.840 in the USA when it passes. Generally, it's if a 3:14:36.879 --> 3:14:39.920 country has experienced war or other like instability that makes 3:14:39.920 --> 3:14:43.160 it dangerous. You have to apply to the TPS. They 3:14:43.240 --> 3:14:45.760 don't provide a pathway to permanence or citizenship, but they 3:14:45.800 --> 3:14:48.480 do give people work authorization, and they often have to 3:14:48.520 --> 3:14:52.080 be frequently renewed by the Executive Branch. You have to 3:14:52.080 --> 3:14:54.440 be in the US the date it's issued, so you 3:14:54.520 --> 3:14:57.160 can't enter after. Despite what you might have seen on 3:14:58.040 --> 3:15:01.280 Twitter or whatever, that's not the case. It also doesn't 3:15:01.320 --> 3:15:03.560 count as a legal entry, so you can't use the 3:15:03.560 --> 3:15:07.040 bridge to a green card. Trump stripped this protection from 3:15:07.080 --> 3:15:10.119 about three hundred and fifty thousand Venezuelans under the twenty 3:15:10.200 --> 3:15:13.920 twenty three TPS. This does not impact there are two 3:15:13.959 --> 3:15:16.360 different tpss for Venezuelan people. They're in a bit of 3:15:16.360 --> 3:15:19.800 a unique situation. The quarter of a million people covered 3:15:19.800 --> 3:15:23.360 by the twenty twenty one TPS are still for now 3:15:23.560 --> 3:15:25.959 covered by that, but it doesn't exactly bode well for them. 3:15:26.040 --> 3:15:26.200 Right. 3:15:27.080 --> 3:15:30.160 This appears to be the largest blanket removal of legal 3:15:30.240 --> 3:15:32.600 status from a group of people in the United States history, 3:15:33.360 --> 3:15:36.039 and it's a little unclear what this means for the 3:15:36.080 --> 3:15:39.560 three hundred and fifty thousand Venezuelan people currently residing in 3:15:39.560 --> 3:15:43.480 the US under TPS. Right, but it's another case of like, 3:15:43.920 --> 3:15:48.000 by their compliance, isolatory probably knows where they live, so 3:15:48.080 --> 3:15:52.800 these people, it's possible that we will see deportations of 3:15:52.879 --> 3:15:56.120 these people back to Venezuela again. The situation in Venezuela 3:15:56.200 --> 3:15:56.680 is dire. 3:15:56.840 --> 3:15:59.360 It's a place where just so many people too. 3:16:00.240 --> 3:16:02.800 And like I think again, if people haven't listened to 3:16:02.840 --> 3:16:04.879 my Darien series, I would like that because I got 3:16:04.879 --> 3:16:07.200 a lot of myself into it, But I have a 3:16:07.200 --> 3:16:09.920 great affection for Venezuelan migrants. I've spent a lot of 3:16:09.959 --> 3:16:12.840 time in Caracas when I was younger, and I've spent 3:16:12.920 --> 3:16:14.920 a lot of time with them in the Darien Gap, 3:16:14.959 --> 3:16:17.600 and then when they arrive in the United States, and yeah, 3:16:17.680 --> 3:16:21.040 it's really fucking heartbreaking to hear. Like when you think 3:16:21.080 --> 3:16:23.800 of three hundred and fifty thousand people, understand that a 3:16:23.800 --> 3:16:26.959 good number of those people will be little children, Yeah, right, 3:16:27.360 --> 3:16:30.640 people who never had any agency, People whose parents risked 3:16:30.720 --> 3:16:32.960 their lives to give their kids a chance at a 3:16:32.959 --> 3:16:36.120 better future, and that's been ripped away from them right 3:16:36.160 --> 3:16:37.880 now with the consent of the Supreme Court. 3:16:38.600 --> 3:16:41.680 Like, if you're removing three hundred, like three hundred thousand 3:16:41.680 --> 3:16:43.440 people from from our country, that's just straight up and 3:16:43.520 --> 3:16:45.680 ethnic cleansing, Like that's what that is. 3:16:46.040 --> 3:16:48.200 It's about a third of the Venezuelans living in the 3:16:48.280 --> 3:16:51.200 United States right now, right, Like, it's it's way more 3:16:51.240 --> 3:16:59.160 than decimating. Yeah, obviously we will see what legal recourses 3:16:59.200 --> 3:17:02.120 people have, will see how this goes down, But obviously 3:17:02.240 --> 3:17:06.160 very concerning for these people whose country is falling apart 3:17:06.240 --> 3:17:10.039 and being writturned. There will be terrible for them, right, 3:17:10.280 --> 3:17:12.920 Not only will they likely have none of their savings, 3:17:13.000 --> 3:17:15.840 all of the resources they poured into getting here, but 3:17:16.360 --> 3:17:20.199 they're also likely to face political persecution. So yeah, that's 3:17:20.240 --> 3:17:23.040 all the exciting and uplifting news I have from the 3:17:23.040 --> 3:17:26.640 immigration side of things. Hey everyone, it's James with a 3:17:26.760 --> 3:17:30.600 pickup Today me and Mar now is reporting that the 3:17:30.720 --> 3:17:36.240 United States has deported twenty people since April. To Me 3:17:36.400 --> 3:17:40.160 and mar most of those people, seven of them have 3:17:40.280 --> 3:17:45.400 been released. The remainder of those people are being held 3:17:45.560 --> 3:17:50.560 by Burmese military intelligence in a prison that is notorious 3:17:50.560 --> 3:17:56.360 for torture, sexual violence, and the general inhumane treatment of 3:17:56.440 --> 3:17:59.520 incarcerated people that we've become very familiar with in our 3:17:59.600 --> 3:18:04.360 writing about Meanma. We don't know who these people are yet. Obviously, 3:18:04.400 --> 3:18:06.560 this is a story that I'm looking into and I 3:18:06.560 --> 3:18:08.480 will continue to get back to you on. But it 3:18:08.520 --> 3:18:11.600 seems like somehow we have not been aware of this 3:18:11.680 --> 3:18:15.279 until now, but dozens of people have been deported. They're 3:18:15.320 --> 3:18:17.760 saying that twenty seven people in total are expected to 3:18:17.800 --> 3:18:20.720 be deported, and twenty already have. So obviously this is 3:18:20.800 --> 3:18:22.920 very disturbing news and something we'll keep reporting on. 3:18:23.600 --> 3:18:23.720 Well. 3:18:23.760 --> 3:18:27.400 Thankskeeping us updated on that. James, Yeah, we're gonna go 3:18:27.640 --> 3:18:31.640 on break and return to talk about the FBI, Palestine 3:18:31.760 --> 3:18:49.360 and some exciting new reality TV and turfs. I'm sad, okay, 3:18:49.440 --> 3:18:52.560 we are back. First, I want to do some quick 3:18:52.600 --> 3:18:56.000 updates about the FBI. A Cash Battel has announced that 3:18:56.040 --> 3:18:59.040 he's shutting down the FBI's DC headquarters in dj Edgar 3:18:59.080 --> 3:19:02.840 Hoover Building. Around fifteen hundred agents will be transferred around 3:19:02.879 --> 3:19:06.680 the country. In this same interview, Cash Brittel and Dan 3:19:06.760 --> 3:19:11.800 Bongino went on TV to say that Jeffrey Epstein died 3:19:12.000 --> 3:19:16.280 by suicide and of course Mega, yes, very normal to this. 3:19:16.840 --> 3:19:17.760 What do they have on this. 3:19:19.879 --> 3:19:20.640 To them? 3:19:21.480 --> 3:19:24.840 You said, Jeffrey Epstein committed suicide. 3:19:25.600 --> 3:19:26.640 People don't believe it. 3:19:26.760 --> 3:19:30.720 Well, I mean, listen, they have a right to their opinion. 3:19:30.760 --> 3:19:33.400 But as someone who has worked as a public defender, 3:19:33.440 --> 3:19:35.680 as a prosecutor, who's been in that prison system, who's 3:19:35.720 --> 3:19:38.960 been in the Metropolitan Detention Center, who's been in segregated housing, 3:19:40.000 --> 3:19:41.960 you know a suicide when you see one, and that's 3:19:41.959 --> 3:19:46.480 what that was. They killed himself again, you want me 3:19:46.520 --> 3:19:48.400 to get I've seen the whole file. 3:19:48.560 --> 3:19:49.400 He killed himself. 3:19:49.879 --> 3:19:52.840 I'm upset because I forgot that Dan Bongina was a 3:19:52.840 --> 3:19:54.080 person like me too. 3:19:54.640 --> 3:19:58.000 Oh, I have not forgotten. This is my beat. I 3:19:58.040 --> 3:20:02.200 forgot it. So yes, of course, uh, Mega is acting 3:20:02.320 --> 3:20:09.240 very normal about about uh the affirmation that Epstein killed himself. Quote. Okay, 3:20:09.480 --> 3:20:12.280 now I'm losing confidence in them both. This is not 3:20:12.520 --> 3:20:14.039 good at all. 3:20:14.959 --> 3:20:17.320 Cool. Let me read one, Let me read one. Let's 3:20:17.320 --> 3:20:21.600 do this. This is fun. Sad to see Cash and 3:20:21.600 --> 3:20:23.760 Bengino have been compromised. 3:20:24.240 --> 3:20:27.480 Yeah, your turn, Dahn blink twice if they threatened you 3:20:27.600 --> 3:20:28.240 or your family. 3:20:30.120 --> 3:20:32.400 Now I got to do one right, Yeah, yeah, deep 3:20:32.440 --> 3:20:35.400 state traitor d Ei. 3:20:35.360 --> 3:20:37.200 Higher Oh classic class. 3:20:37.400 --> 3:20:40.280 There it is, there, it is. I knew it was coming, 3:20:40.560 --> 3:20:43.080 as much as he likes to wear his CU hunting gear. 3:20:43.320 --> 3:20:47.200 But no, there's there's thousands, thousands of comments from these 3:20:47.320 --> 3:20:50.879 like like mega Q, people who feel feel the trade 3:20:51.320 --> 3:20:54.280 that people like Patel and Bungino have spent years doing 3:20:54.280 --> 3:20:58.920 content creation talking about this grand Epstein conspiracy that now 3:20:59.040 --> 3:21:02.240 now they claim isn't real or they are in fact 3:21:02.360 --> 3:21:07.360 covering up the real conspiracy that Donald Donald Trump's friends 3:21:07.360 --> 3:21:11.800 with Jeffrey Epstein's. So yeah. There's also an interview clip 3:21:11.800 --> 3:21:14.039 where where Trump. I was asked if he was going 3:21:14.120 --> 3:21:16.080 to release the whole file, and at first he said yes, 3:21:16.120 --> 3:21:18.879 and then he caught himself and was like, well, actually no, 3:21:18.920 --> 3:21:21.200 we'll probably be We'll probably be careful about releasing the 3:21:21.200 --> 3:21:26.200 whole file because it could compromise people, Like what kind 3:21:26.240 --> 3:21:29.879 of people you're talking about? Their don Anyway, we have. 3:21:29.840 --> 3:21:32.800 A chance of swinging the Epstein demographic, that is her 3:21:32.920 --> 3:21:35.600 time division to our enemies. 3:21:37.080 --> 3:21:40.240 The next thing of the doc is I found interesting Gerson. 3:21:40.840 --> 3:21:43.879 Oh, this is just one piece of uplifting news. Yeah, 3:21:43.920 --> 3:21:45.920 this is I'm just gonna read the headline from the 3:21:46.000 --> 3:21:49.879 NBA because I simply can't improve on it. No, it's perfect. 3:21:51.080 --> 3:21:51.360 Quote. 3:21:51.760 --> 3:21:55.240 Suspected serial killer shouts out Trump in last words before 3:21:55.280 --> 3:22:00.400 he's put to death. Keep making America great. Glenn Rogers 3:22:00.400 --> 3:22:02.880 once told police he had killed about seventy people. He 3:22:02.959 --> 3:22:05.280 was executed by lethal injection Thursday in Florida. 3:22:05.400 --> 3:22:07.520 That's the way that I knew it would be Florida. 3:22:07.920 --> 3:22:10.840 Literally seconds before he got the lethal injection, he said, 3:22:11.120 --> 3:22:14.960 President Trump, keep making America great. I'm ready to go. 3:22:15.360 --> 3:22:19.279 Last words. Wow. So that kind of shows you the current, 3:22:19.360 --> 3:22:22.320 like wellspring of Trump's support right now. That's really hitting 3:22:22.360 --> 3:22:24.640 his prime demographic of suspected serial killers. 3:22:24.720 --> 3:22:27.760 I just have to say that had big Florida energy. 3:22:29.040 --> 3:22:29.480 For real. 3:22:29.920 --> 3:22:32.240 Yeah, I think it's time to hear the lucid lullaby 3:22:32.840 --> 3:22:33.760 of tariff talk. 3:22:38.120 --> 3:22:47.359 Rocking jazz Bob, Rocky jazz Bot, Sorry, locking rocking jazz bomb. 3:22:47.480 --> 3:22:52.560 Rocking jazz Bob, you know, all right, before everything gets 3:22:52.560 --> 3:22:54.920 so so like, I do the most depressing segment I've 3:22:54.920 --> 3:22:55.760 maybe ever done on. 3:22:55.760 --> 3:22:58.320 Here terriffs that can't be true. 3:22:58.400 --> 3:23:00.960 No, not the teriff, but the next I genuinely think 3:23:01.040 --> 3:23:02.640 is the most impressing thing I've ever done on here, 3:23:02.720 --> 3:23:05.800 but the tariffs. So our negotiations with China that we're 3:23:05.840 --> 3:23:07.960 supposed to like solve all of the tariff problems are 3:23:07.959 --> 3:23:10.560 already breaking down. Both sides are like sniping at each other. 3:23:11.160 --> 3:23:13.600 This is not going to work. It structurally cannot work. 3:23:13.680 --> 3:23:17.320 That the US's demands on the negotiating table, which is again 3:23:17.440 --> 3:23:19.400 the political we're economic rationale behind this, is that the 3:23:19.480 --> 3:23:22.120 US should not have a trade deficit with China that 3:23:22.480 --> 3:23:26.000 can't be solved, and it's already breaking down. The talks 3:23:26.000 --> 3:23:28.160 are going almost certainly going to fail, and we're going 3:23:28.200 --> 3:23:30.360 to be right back to where we were. It's also 3:23:30.400 --> 3:23:34.040 worth talking about a bunch of companies have been doing 3:23:34.080 --> 3:23:38.280 price raises, and I think it's worth going back a 3:23:38.280 --> 3:23:40.480 little bit to some of some of the economic work 3:23:40.480 --> 3:23:42.080 we've done in this show with the people at Strange 3:23:42.080 --> 3:23:44.959 Matters and talking about in our previous episodes about inflation, 3:23:45.040 --> 3:23:48.480 about how price works, because this is really really badly 3:23:48.560 --> 3:23:51.640 understood by just about everyone, which is that the way 3:23:51.680 --> 3:23:53.840 that people think about tend to think about price is 3:23:54.000 --> 3:23:56.800 as like, okay, it's supply and demand. 3:23:56.800 --> 3:23:58.199 There's two axes they meet on a graph. 3:23:58.480 --> 3:24:01.000 That's not how price is set. Price is set by 3:24:01.040 --> 3:24:05.039 like specific people in supply chains, right, Like they're constrained 3:24:05.040 --> 3:24:06.960 by certain factors. And one of the biggest things, and 3:24:06.959 --> 3:24:08.560 one of the things, the biggest things they're constrained about, 3:24:08.560 --> 3:24:10.320 is that if you raise prices, people get pissed at you. 3:24:10.920 --> 3:24:13.200 But the way that they actually do pricing strategies is 3:24:13.240 --> 3:24:14.039 cost plus markup. 3:24:14.080 --> 3:24:14.200 Right. 3:24:14.240 --> 3:24:16.880 There's a cost of of of the physical good and 3:24:16.920 --> 3:24:18.280 then they do a markup and the markup is a 3:24:18.280 --> 3:24:22.080 profit margin. And the thing about tariffs, right, is that 3:24:22.520 --> 3:24:25.200 the way the tariffs affect supply chains is that each 3:24:25.240 --> 3:24:28.240 part of the supply chain now, that's movings, that's importing stuff. Right, 3:24:28.760 --> 3:24:30.720 each part of those things now has an additional cost 3:24:30.760 --> 3:24:32.920 that they have to have to put into their costless 3:24:32.920 --> 3:24:34.440 markup ratio. 3:24:34.760 --> 3:24:35.840 Now, Trump wants all. 3:24:35.840 --> 3:24:38.080 These companies to just fucking eat shit and eat eat 3:24:38.080 --> 3:24:39.800 the price of the tariffs. He's been tweeting about this 3:24:40.680 --> 3:24:42.320 or posting a bit and I think on truth social 3:24:42.400 --> 3:24:43.440 and possibly also on. 3:24:43.400 --> 3:24:47.879 T again, all of his truths have been re reposted 3:24:47.879 --> 3:24:48.440 on exos. 3:24:48.520 --> 3:24:54.160 Now, yeah, retruthed, but the thing is right and in theory, 3:24:54.360 --> 3:24:57.400 right like Walmart could just like take this right in theory, 3:24:57.720 --> 3:24:59.039 like like you know, like they're really some of the 3:24:59.120 --> 3:25:02.000 really really big company could in theory do this. They won't, 3:25:02.760 --> 3:25:04.280 like they a lot of any other. Thing is like 3:25:04.320 --> 3:25:06.320 these companies have an incentive not to raise prices because 3:25:06.320 --> 3:25:09.360 it pisses consumers off. And also because Trump is just 3:25:09.520 --> 3:25:13.920 direct like directly threatening sanctions on companies that raise prices. Mattel, 3:25:14.240 --> 3:25:15.840 for the people who make Barbie, said that they were 3:25:15.840 --> 3:25:17.879 gonna raise prices on toys, and Trump is now threatening 3:25:17.920 --> 3:25:20.840 them with one hundred percent sanctions or one hundred percent tariffs. 3:25:21.160 --> 3:25:27.640 Only three dollars yeah, so that's the government limited. 3:25:27.400 --> 3:25:30.600 Dolls, completely handed situation. We've gotten here. We're gonna have 3:25:30.680 --> 3:25:34.039 doll quotas. But you know, again again it's it's worth 3:25:34.080 --> 3:25:37.400 mentioning right that, like in theory, for a little bit 3:25:37.440 --> 3:25:39.640 of time, some of these companies can sort of eat 3:25:39.640 --> 3:25:41.160 this or they can fuck with their supply chains. So 3:25:41.200 --> 3:25:44.000 they companies have been publicly talking about this. The problem 3:25:44.320 --> 3:25:47.360 is the suppliers, because the the the distributors tend to 3:25:47.400 --> 3:25:51.359 have pretty high margins, right, like your Walgreens, like Amazon 3:25:51.360 --> 3:25:53.600 a sub except like their margins are okay, and like 3:25:53.680 --> 3:25:56.280 Amazon makes most of us money from government computing contracts anyways, 3:25:56.600 --> 3:26:00.640 so it's not as catastrophic. But the supply years operate 3:26:00.760 --> 3:26:03.360 on very low margins. The shipping companies, everything else along 3:26:03.400 --> 3:26:05.720 the supply chain operates on really really low margins, right, 3:26:06.080 --> 3:26:09.359 And those people have to raise their price because otherwise 3:26:09.400 --> 3:26:11.560 they are just going to die. And when they raise 3:26:11.640 --> 3:26:14.800 their price right in, that's an increase to the next 3:26:14.800 --> 3:26:17.520 company's costless markup, which increases the next company's costless market, 3:26:17.600 --> 3:26:19.920 which increases the next companies. And we're starting to see 3:26:19.959 --> 3:26:21.800 this ripple to the supply chain. Things are disappearing from 3:26:21.800 --> 3:26:24.080 grocery stores. They're going to continue disappearing from grocery stores. 3:26:24.560 --> 3:26:27.280 And as as this goes on, and as presumably the 3:26:27.360 --> 3:26:29.800 teriffs from China come back into effect, when these negotiations 3:26:29.840 --> 3:26:32.840 break down and the next round of tariffs goes into 3:26:32.879 --> 3:26:35.680 effect and deliberation day tariffs come off their ninety day 3:26:35.680 --> 3:26:38.160 pause and go to effect, this is all gonna get worse. 3:26:38.720 --> 3:26:44.039 This has been tariff talk lovely U. This unfortunately was 3:26:44.080 --> 3:26:45.279 the fun part of the episode. 3:26:46.600 --> 3:26:50.160 Yeah, it's gonna get worse free two one. 3:26:51.160 --> 3:26:52.879 Okay, So when I said this might be the bleak 3:26:52.879 --> 3:26:54.920 at segment I've ever done on this show, we need 3:26:54.959 --> 3:26:58.200 to do an update on Palestine because things have gotten 3:26:58.320 --> 3:27:02.320 ye Like, when I was kind of opening this episode, 3:27:02.320 --> 3:27:04.199 I thought it was going to mostly be about Trump's 3:27:04.240 --> 3:27:06.959 plan to deport the entire popula to its like deport 3:27:07.000 --> 3:27:10.120 most of the polation of Palestine to Libya. That's not 3:27:10.240 --> 3:27:12.959 even the immediate crisis. The immediate crisis is that and 3:27:13.320 --> 3:27:15.360 that that's not even sure what I'm saying the immediate crisis. 3:27:15.440 --> 3:27:17.360 Last week, I thought the crisis was going to be 3:27:17.400 --> 3:27:19.280 the eleven week blucket of Gaza and the fact that 3:27:19.320 --> 3:27:23.000 everyone is about to starve. Yeah, and so the actual 3:27:23.080 --> 3:27:26.720 specific thing that we're getting to right now is Israel 3:27:27.160 --> 3:27:30.320 it is attempting to evacuate. That's their wording. What they're 3:27:30.320 --> 3:27:33.280 actually doing is ethnically cleansing basically the entire population of 3:27:33.400 --> 3:27:37.000 Conunis by just forcing everyone out of the city. Right 3:27:37.160 --> 3:27:39.760 The United Nations has said that nearly one hundred thousand 3:27:39.840 --> 3:27:42.200 Palestinians have been displaced in Gaza in the last four 3:27:42.280 --> 3:27:46.080 days as Israel has been expanding its its ground invasion 3:27:46.080 --> 3:27:49.000 to the Gaza strip. This has been combined with the 3:27:49.080 --> 3:27:51.440 eleven week long blockade of Gaza. I think by the 3:27:51.520 --> 3:27:54.480 end of this week, on the week twelve, this has 3:27:54.600 --> 3:27:57.360 set off an enormous risk of famine. I'm just going 3:27:57.400 --> 3:28:00.560 to read this from Al Jazeira. Quote some sef days 3:28:00.560 --> 3:28:04.560 after the Israeli military halted the entry of food, water, medicine, 3:28:04.600 --> 3:28:07.400 and all other life saving supplies into Gaza, the report said. 3:28:07.440 --> 3:28:10.320 This is a report from a UN a UN back 3:28:10.360 --> 3:28:13.760 set of food security group of analysts. The report said, 3:28:13.840 --> 3:28:17.840 quote goods indispensable for people's survivals survival are either depleted 3:28:17.920 --> 3:28:19.720 or expected to run out in the coming weeks. 3:28:20.320 --> 3:28:20.800 Quote. 3:28:20.879 --> 3:28:24.960 The entire population is facing high levels of acute food insecurity, 3:28:25.320 --> 3:28:28.920 with half a million people one in five facing starvation. 3:28:29.080 --> 3:28:29.520 It said. 3:28:30.000 --> 3:28:35.320 Approximately ninety three percent of Gaza's population is experiencing acute 3:28:35.320 --> 3:28:38.720 food shortages. It added. The report also said that like 3:28:38.760 --> 3:28:41.160 one in five people could starve between now and November. 3:28:42.040 --> 3:28:45.360 People have already started starving to death. Israel has been 3:28:45.360 --> 3:28:49.520 blocking AID from getting through. They symbolically allowed a small 3:28:49.600 --> 3:28:52.720 number of trucks in, but AID groups on the ground 3:28:53.040 --> 3:28:55.000 and I want to emphasize that this reporting is coming 3:28:55.040 --> 3:28:57.680 directly from the Times of Israel. If you want to 3:28:57.720 --> 3:29:00.320 understand how bad the situation is, the Times of Isael 3:29:00.440 --> 3:29:03.800 is reporting that a groups from the ground say that 3:29:03.840 --> 3:29:05.240 none of the ilia's gotten through and none of it 3:29:05.240 --> 3:29:09.360 has been attributed. This is I don't know how to 3:29:09.440 --> 3:29:13.720 convey how bad it is. Indescribable. Numbers of people are 3:29:14.040 --> 3:29:15.440 on the verge of starv and go death in the 3:29:15.480 --> 3:29:19.600 Israelis are simply not letting any food arrive. They keep 3:29:19.600 --> 3:29:21.360 talking about how they're going to let food arrive because 3:29:21.400 --> 3:29:24.440 this is actually, this is the first thing I've seen 3:29:24.800 --> 3:29:29.000 them do that's actually seriously gotten. I mean not even seriously, 3:29:29.000 --> 3:29:31.560 but it's like gotten A lot of their Western allies 3:29:31.600 --> 3:29:33.760 pissed at them because they're just very obviously trying to 3:29:33.800 --> 3:29:37.120 exterminate entire population by starving them the death. And this 3:29:37.160 --> 3:29:40.959 has caused the UK, Canada, and France to issue a 3:29:41.040 --> 3:29:43.640 joint statement coming out against the Israeli policy and telling 3:29:43.680 --> 3:29:46.200 them to fucking stop and let food through so these 3:29:46.240 --> 3:29:50.600 people don't starve. The UK is talking about suspending free 3:29:50.600 --> 3:29:53.560 trade agreements with Israel, they're talking about like sanctions at 3:29:53.560 --> 3:29:56.920 West Bank settlers. The whole group has threatened that they're 3:29:56.959 --> 3:30:01.520 going to take more actions unless the Israelis let food in. Now, 3:30:01.600 --> 3:30:04.520 the Israelis, because of the Israelis shot at a bunch 3:30:04.600 --> 3:30:07.680 of diplomats who were visiting a refugee camp in Janine. 3:30:07.720 --> 3:30:08.879 This was like a few days ago. 3:30:09.120 --> 3:30:11.280 Yeah, it's like a few days ago. Yeah, yeah, And 3:30:11.360 --> 3:30:15.280 so that's that's not been like making anyone less angry 3:30:15.360 --> 3:30:17.880 at them. It's genuinely remarkable to we've reached a place 3:30:17.879 --> 3:30:21.879 where like the UK, Canada in France, who are all 3:30:21.920 --> 3:30:25.680 major weapons suppliers to Israel, are like talking about sanctions, 3:30:26.560 --> 3:30:28.440 like even targeted actions, like yeah, you know, and like 3:30:28.480 --> 3:30:30.520 the like the UN's like Human Rights Commission was like well, 3:30:30.520 --> 3:30:32.119 This is bullshit. You can't juste targeted sanctions. 3:30:32.120 --> 3:30:33.200 It is the entire government doing this. 3:30:33.280 --> 3:30:35.880 But like you know, the fact that they're doing something 3:30:36.680 --> 3:30:41.400 is an indicator of just how apocalyptically bad the situation 3:30:41.520 --> 3:30:42.000 is right now. 3:30:42.600 --> 3:30:43.400 Yeah, I want to. 3:30:43.360 --> 3:30:47.920 Read this quote from the Guardian from just Perennial, most 3:30:47.959 --> 3:30:50.640 fascist guy in the Israeli government. 3:30:50.959 --> 3:30:51.920 That's he's saying something. 3:30:52.480 --> 3:30:56.840 Yeah, who's their fucking finance minister who said quote, Now, 3:30:56.879 --> 3:31:00.480 we conquer, cleanse and stay until Hamas is stroy he 3:31:00.520 --> 3:31:03.160 told him news conference. Along the way, what remains of 3:31:03.240 --> 3:31:04.920 the strip is also being wiped. 3:31:04.600 --> 3:31:08.039 Out, plants conquered, the normal things. 3:31:08.080 --> 3:31:10.879 To say, the extent to which they are simply doing 3:31:10.959 --> 3:31:14.039 a genocide here has reached a point where even a 3:31:14.040 --> 3:31:17.280 bunch of Israel's closest allies are going, what the fuck? 3:31:18.080 --> 3:31:18.520 I don't know. 3:31:18.760 --> 3:31:23.560 I really hope that people are able to force their 3:31:23.600 --> 3:31:25.800 governments to actually fucking do something about this, because if 3:31:25.840 --> 3:31:29.480 they don't, it's going to continue to get really bad. Yeah, 3:31:29.480 --> 3:31:32.520 And I mean I guess right now, that's mostly like 3:31:32.560 --> 3:31:34.720 if if you're if you're in like the UK, Canada 3:31:34.800 --> 3:31:37.360 or France, and you think you can apply more pressure 3:31:37.400 --> 3:31:39.160 on your government, like go for. 3:31:39.200 --> 3:31:40.960 It, do do it? Do that. 3:31:41.720 --> 3:31:43.119 Like, I don't know, I don't know to what extent 3:31:43.120 --> 3:31:45.600 pressure can even be mounted on the Trump administration. 3:31:45.200 --> 3:31:48.040 But it's yeah, I think that's pretty much a dead end, 3:31:48.600 --> 3:31:52.360 right Yeah, Like but seeing these countries align outside of 3:31:52.400 --> 3:31:57.360 any US influence to I potentially recognize the Palestinian state, 3:31:57.400 --> 3:32:00.840 according to Lemonde, right, like is significant. 3:32:00.840 --> 3:32:04.959 And yeah, people in those countries should absolutely like stay 3:32:04.959 --> 3:32:05.560 in the streets. 3:32:05.640 --> 3:32:07.720 Yeah, because like like and this is this is the 3:32:07.720 --> 3:32:10.040 thing here, right, Like these countries the stuff that there's 3:32:10.360 --> 3:32:12.000 stuff are threatened you is not enough to really make 3:32:12.040 --> 3:32:14.360 a difference here, but like if they're willing to do this, 3:32:14.440 --> 3:32:15.280 they can be pushed further. 3:32:15.400 --> 3:32:15.680 Yeah. 3:32:15.720 --> 3:32:17.640 So yeah, you have to get your foot in the door. 3:32:17.760 --> 3:32:18.000 Yeah. 3:32:18.040 --> 3:32:22.360 And Carney has also seemed susceptible to this, Yeah, as 3:32:22.400 --> 3:32:26.000 there has been a block on armsteels to Israel for 3:32:26.000 --> 3:32:27.320 the past few months in Canada. 3:32:27.360 --> 3:32:27.520 Yeah. 3:32:27.760 --> 3:32:32.160 Yeah, we're going to close with another story of like 3:32:32.720 --> 3:32:36.560 anti humanity, but just a slightly different flavor. And I 3:32:36.959 --> 3:32:39.080 know this this does the show does often just end 3:32:39.120 --> 3:32:41.000 up feeling like a bad news round up, and that 3:32:41.080 --> 3:32:42.440 is because there's a lot of bad news. 3:32:42.480 --> 3:32:43.720 I have good news for the end. 3:32:43.720 --> 3:32:46.160 Actually, that's a good thing. We'll have some good news, yeah, 3:32:46.240 --> 3:32:48.400 as a treat. And part of the good news here 3:32:48.440 --> 3:32:50.640 is that this probably will not end up happening, but 3:32:50.680 --> 3:32:54.280 it's still useful insight into the minds of these ghouls. 3:32:55.160 --> 3:32:59.760 And I've long advocated that reality TV is basically inherently Satanic. 3:33:00.040 --> 3:33:03.360 I think it's a spiritual darkness. This is offensive to Satanists. 3:33:03.840 --> 3:33:04.720 It is a. 3:33:04.720 --> 3:33:07.760 Spiritual darkness that has played the United States for far 3:33:07.800 --> 3:33:10.240 too long. I think it's ushered in a degree of 3:33:10.280 --> 3:33:15.959 evil that is nearly unfathomable. And the current administration is 3:33:16.040 --> 3:33:20.120 essentially a reality TV administration on a very clear and 3:33:20.120 --> 3:33:20.800 obvious level. 3:33:21.200 --> 3:33:23.959 Yes, but did I enjoy watching the Secret Lives of 3:33:24.000 --> 3:33:24.880 Mormon Wives? 3:33:25.320 --> 3:33:25.600 Yes? 3:33:26.160 --> 3:33:28.680 I did. I think watching it stuff is actually a 3:33:28.760 --> 3:33:32.279 personal moral failure. I think you're channeling darkness into your soul. 3:33:32.400 --> 3:33:33.119 And love it it. 3:33:33.480 --> 3:33:36.720 Last week, multiple outlets reported that the Department of Homeland 3:33:36.760 --> 3:33:40.840 Security was considering participating in a reality TV show where 3:33:40.879 --> 3:33:46.360 immigrants compete against each other to gain US citizenship. The 3:33:46.400 --> 3:33:50.680 proposed series would be called The American This nightmare has 3:33:50.680 --> 3:33:55.080 been dreamed up by Duck Dynasty producer Rob Warsof, and 3:33:55.120 --> 3:33:58.080 apparently he's been trying to make this since Obama's second term, 3:33:58.600 --> 3:34:01.880 but only now has made progress on getting the necessary 3:34:01.879 --> 3:34:05.520 backing from the DHS. After sending Trump's DHS a thirty 3:34:05.640 --> 3:34:09.880 five page pitch, Warsof wants it to be quote unquote 3:34:10.240 --> 3:34:15.880 the biggest loser for immigration, which again, reality TV is 3:34:15.920 --> 3:34:20.560 inherently evil. That's fucking insane. It should not be tolerated 3:34:20.560 --> 3:34:24.320 on any aspect of human society. No, the Wall Street 3:34:24.400 --> 3:34:29.879 Journal header reads, quote, this isn't the Hunger Games for immigrants, 3:34:30.080 --> 3:34:33.480 says the producer behind the pitch. If you have to 3:34:33.600 --> 3:34:38.279 say this isn't the Hunger Games for immigrants, that means 3:34:38.400 --> 3:34:40.879 this is the Hunger Games for immigrants. Getting a lot 3:34:40.879 --> 3:34:44.080 of questions about my this isn't the Hunger Games for 3:34:44.200 --> 3:34:47.760 Immigrants shirt already answered by the shirt to quote the 3:34:47.800 --> 3:34:52.120 Wall Street Journal quote. DHS spokeswoman Tricia McLaughlin said that 3:34:52.320 --> 3:34:55.119 she had spoken to the producer of the proposed television 3:34:55.240 --> 3:34:59.439 reality show and that consideration of the idea was ongoing. 3:35:00.080 --> 3:35:03.280 It is quote in the very beginning stages of that 3:35:03.400 --> 3:35:07.720 vetting process, she said, adding that quote each proposal undergoes 3:35:07.800 --> 3:35:12.560 a thorough vetting process prior to denial or approval unquote. 3:35:12.640 --> 3:35:15.040 McLoughlin was also quoted in The Daily Mail as saying 3:35:15.080 --> 3:35:19.040 she thought the television show was quote unquote a good idea. 3:35:19.840 --> 3:35:20.720 Jesus, Jesus. 3:35:21.040 --> 3:35:24.520 The pitch details that the immigrant contestants would board a 3:35:24.600 --> 3:35:28.160 train called the American and ride across the country to 3:35:28.200 --> 3:35:30.960 meet quote unquote interesting Americans and learn about the local 3:35:31.000 --> 3:35:35.279 history and culture while competing in region specific quote unquote 3:35:35.320 --> 3:35:40.119 heritage challenges to prove they are the most American. Such 3:35:40.160 --> 3:35:44.240 cultural contests include balancing on logs in Wisconsin, building a 3:35:44.360 --> 3:35:47.320 rocket at the Florida NASA headquarters, assembling a model t 3:35:47.480 --> 3:35:50.800 Ford in Detroit, and collecting gold in a San Francisco 3:35:50.920 --> 3:35:55.879 mind shaft. Prizes would be quote unquote iconically American, like 3:35:56.000 --> 3:35:59.760 one million American Airlines points, a ten thousand dollars Starbucks 3:35:59.800 --> 3:36:03.960 give card, or a lifetime supply of seventy six gas. 3:36:04.440 --> 3:36:06.800 Immigrants would be split into teams that compete head to 3:36:06.840 --> 3:36:10.760 head across one hour episodes, ending with an elimination challenge, 3:36:10.920 --> 3:36:14.440 followed by a town hall and a final vote to 3:36:14.560 --> 3:36:17.400 quote the producer quote along the way, we will be 3:36:17.520 --> 3:36:20.680 reminded what it means to be American through the eyes 3:36:20.879 --> 3:36:23.520 of people who wanted most. 3:36:25.440 --> 3:36:28.760 I feel like even this will it will humanize migration 3:36:28.879 --> 3:36:30.879 to the United States too much for them, and like 3:36:30.920 --> 3:36:35.879 if that they will be afraid of that, like of 3:36:35.920 --> 3:36:38.360 these people articulating their desire to be here and what 3:36:38.400 --> 3:36:41.680 it means to them, And I feel like that that 3:36:41.720 --> 3:36:44.119 doesn't end well for the administration, that they this might. 3:36:44.040 --> 3:36:45.600 Be too liberal for the Trump administration. 3:36:46.600 --> 3:36:48.680 Yeah, it could be too I'm not even joking. 3:36:49.920 --> 3:36:51.920 This is a concept just should be the death knell 3:36:52.000 --> 3:36:55.040 for the idea of America. Like, oh, yeah, if America 3:36:55.080 --> 3:36:57.160 has an experiment, we tried it. 3:36:57.160 --> 3:36:59.760 It failed. This is the most America thing I've ever heard, Like. 3:36:59.720 --> 3:37:02.720 It's yeah, as an experiment, the American Project was a 3:37:02.720 --> 3:37:05.040 fucking disaster, and we need to it needs to stop 3:37:05.400 --> 3:37:09.280 because this is what it's done. No more, No more 3:37:09.280 --> 3:37:14.840 American Project. The Hitch has pre vetted contestants. First arriving 3:37:14.879 --> 3:37:18.879 at Ellis Island a board a boat called the Citizenship, 3:37:19.720 --> 3:37:23.680 They are greeted by the show's host quote a famous 3:37:23.760 --> 3:37:27.560 naturalized American who was also born in another country unquote. 3:37:27.800 --> 3:37:33.240 The pitt recommends Sophia Vrighera or Ryan Reynolds. Upon arriving, 3:37:33.480 --> 3:37:37.000 the host would give each of them a personalized baseball 3:37:37.080 --> 3:37:39.200 glove America's past time. 3:37:39.800 --> 3:37:43.080 There's no way Sophia Brigata or Ryan Reynolds would ever 3:37:43.240 --> 3:37:45.800 fucking do a show like this. That's batshit. 3:37:46.120 --> 3:37:49.640 Yeah, I fucking hope so to quote the producer's pitch. 3:37:49.720 --> 3:37:54.680 Quote will join in the laughter, tears, frustration, and joy 3:37:54.720 --> 3:37:58.320 hearing their backstories as we are reminded how amazing it 3:37:58.400 --> 3:38:01.840 is to be American through the eyes of twelve wonderful 3:38:01.879 --> 3:38:05.560 people who want nothing more than to have what we have. 3:38:06.560 --> 3:38:06.879 Quote. 3:38:07.879 --> 3:38:10.120 This is one of the most evil things I've ever 3:38:10.160 --> 3:38:14.400 I've ever heard of. Yeah, the live finale would have 3:38:14.440 --> 3:38:17.280 the winner getting sworn in on the steps of the 3:38:17.400 --> 3:38:21.920 US Capital by a quote top American politician or judge 3:38:22.320 --> 3:38:26.720 with F sixteen's flying overhead. Quote. There won't be a 3:38:27.920 --> 3:38:32.080 fuck me sorry, there won't be a dry eye in 3:38:32.160 --> 3:38:33.760 the house unquote. 3:38:34.160 --> 3:38:39.560 There have actually been like high spectacle single individual awards 3:38:39.600 --> 3:38:44.920 of citizenship before I'm thinking For example, Hermann Bodger was 3:38:45.200 --> 3:38:49.240 a He's often known as like the one man army 3:38:49.280 --> 3:38:53.560 of BOONA John Butcher. He was I believe, living as 3:38:53.560 --> 3:38:55.840 an undocumented person in the United States when he joined 3:38:55.840 --> 3:38:58.960 the Abraham Lincoln Brigade volunteered to fight in the Spanish 3:38:58.959 --> 3:39:03.320 Civil War, where he was an officer. He then joined 3:39:03.360 --> 3:39:07.879 the United States military and fort again in World War II. 3:39:08.600 --> 3:39:11.000 During the Battle of Bune, he personally led a charge 3:39:11.000 --> 3:39:15.360 against several Japanese pillboxes, which he eliminated with grenades. He 3:39:15.520 --> 3:39:18.879 then had his ear drum perforated, and I believe he 3:39:19.000 --> 3:39:22.039 was shot in the arm. He was awarded, I think 3:39:22.040 --> 3:39:25.040 he wasn't ordered the Medal of Honor. He was recognized 3:39:25.040 --> 3:39:27.600 for his bravery. Congress pass and act to make him 3:39:27.600 --> 3:39:30.280 a citizen, and he declined to attend the ceremony because 3:39:30.280 --> 3:39:33.920 he wanted to get back to the front lines. That rules, Yeah, 3:39:34.080 --> 3:39:34.879 a bit of a legend. 3:39:35.240 --> 3:39:39.600 Yeah, a little bit cooler than the live grand finale 3:39:39.640 --> 3:39:44.000 of the American The pitch clarified that the losers would 3:39:44.080 --> 3:39:47.959 not be immediately deported and that the contestants would have 3:39:48.280 --> 3:39:51.640 a leg up in applying for citizenship the more traditional 3:39:51.680 --> 3:39:55.440 way based on being pre vetted for this show. So 3:39:55.480 --> 3:39:57.880 it's good that it's good that he had to clarify 3:39:58.000 --> 3:40:01.680 that they would not be immediately deported upon on getting eliminated. 3:40:02.280 --> 3:40:03.520 That's that's a good sign. 3:40:03.959 --> 3:40:05.560 Yeah, yeah, another thing that you should always have to 3:40:05.600 --> 3:40:06.920 craifind a TV page. 3:40:07.080 --> 3:40:10.760 At a Tuesday congressional hearing, Christineome denied having knowledge of 3:40:10.800 --> 3:40:14.840 the reality TV show despite reporting to the contrary, while 3:40:14.920 --> 3:40:19.560 also defining hebeas corpus in this hearing as a quote 3:40:19.879 --> 3:40:22.800 constitutional right that the president has to be able to 3:40:22.800 --> 3:40:27.720 remove people from this country unquote. So there you go. Yeah, 3:40:27.800 --> 3:40:31.560 that's not what that means, Christineome is a disaster that 3:40:31.680 --> 3:40:34.360 is kind of the opposite of what Abe's corpus is. 3:40:35.280 --> 3:40:39.200 And there is there is substantial reporting showing that DHS 3:40:39.200 --> 3:40:41.520 staff are looking at this pitch. It might not go 3:40:41.640 --> 3:40:43.840 through now based on all this backlash, but they were 3:40:43.840 --> 3:40:49.680 looking through the pitch, including possibly Corey Lewandowski. But yeah, 3:40:50.040 --> 3:40:53.960 that is that is the Reality TV news. James, Do 3:40:54.000 --> 3:40:56.920 you have anything anything to end on here. 3:40:56.840 --> 3:40:59.000 Please, James, please? 3:40:59.080 --> 3:41:01.800 Yeah, I know something a little bit nice. So for 3:41:01.879 --> 3:41:05.520 those of you who like me, enjoy a strawberry ice. 3:41:05.600 --> 3:41:11.760 Agents arrived at the West Coast Berry Farms facility in Oxnard, California, 3:41:12.280 --> 3:41:15.519 earlier this month, where they were met by a gatekeeper 3:41:15.680 --> 3:41:18.440 who demanded a warrant and refused to let them enter 3:41:18.480 --> 3:41:22.480 the facility without one and eventually managed to turn them away. 3:41:22.840 --> 3:41:27.119 So this is a rare dub I guess. Clearly, as 3:41:27.160 --> 3:41:29.760 we enter the time of year when things need to 3:41:29.760 --> 3:41:33.240 be picked in the fields, this will be a place 3:41:33.680 --> 3:41:38.959 where ICE sees the opportunity to conduct its enforcement operations. 3:41:39.120 --> 3:41:43.360 And like it is genuinely positive to see that this company, 3:41:43.400 --> 3:41:46.800 I guess, critical support to this company that obviously underpays 3:41:46.800 --> 3:41:50.160 and takes advantage of migrant labor that they have provided them, 3:41:50.200 --> 3:41:53.200 according to an anonymous source in sf Gate with know 3:41:53.280 --> 3:41:56.440 your rights training, and in this case, the gatekeeper was 3:41:56.480 --> 3:41:59.640 able to not let the ICE agents enter and eventually 3:41:59.760 --> 3:42:00.800 they left. 3:42:01.240 --> 3:42:04.800 Like ICE isn't impervious. Like all week, ICE has been 3:42:04.800 --> 3:42:09.840 releasing statements complaining about being compared to to the to. 3:42:09.800 --> 3:42:13.240 The well once again, right, like another thing that you 3:42:13.280 --> 3:42:15.920 shouldn't have to be releasing statements about I am. 3:42:15.800 --> 3:42:19.879 Not the Gestapo shirt has people asking a lot of questions. Yeah, 3:42:19.920 --> 3:42:23.160 and they're also publishing false stats about ICE officers being 3:42:23.200 --> 3:42:26.760 assaulted in the line of duty, So like obviously they are. 3:42:27.160 --> 3:42:29.760 They're facing some kind of like fear even among their 3:42:29.760 --> 3:42:31.560 own agents. That's why they're all like covered up wherever 3:42:31.600 --> 3:42:34.240 they go. They're trying to prosecute people for posting information 3:42:34.280 --> 3:42:35.640 on ICE agents in your area. 3:42:35.879 --> 3:42:38.280 Yeah yeah, but like I say, they're not impervious. There 3:42:38.360 --> 3:42:41.200 is a difference between a judicial warrant and a warrant 3:42:41.200 --> 3:42:44.800 that ICE has essentially made itself right, the latter not 3:42:44.879 --> 3:42:46.959 being signed by a judge. And it appears that the 3:42:47.000 --> 3:42:50.320 gatekeeper was aware of that. We still have courts, you still, 3:42:50.320 --> 3:42:54.440 in theory have rights, and you know, well it depends 3:42:54.480 --> 3:42:58.320 but yeah, yeah, yeah, theoretically that was a pivotal word. 3:42:58.600 --> 3:43:02.200 But yeah, shout out to the gatekeepers at the Oxnad 3:43:02.560 --> 3:43:04.000 strawberry plant. 3:43:04.440 --> 3:43:07.560 And they could be stopped by a door keeper, Like, 3:43:07.680 --> 3:43:10.400 they can be resisted, they can be stopped from doing things. 3:43:10.959 --> 3:43:13.480 Yeah, and like, it is genuinely important that this person 3:43:13.520 --> 3:43:16.560 unders the difference between a judicial warrant and these documents 3:43:16.560 --> 3:43:20.720 that ICE might produce. And it does illustrate the value 3:43:20.760 --> 3:43:23.760 of being educated and educating people in your communities about 3:43:23.760 --> 3:43:25.280 these things if they might be at risk for this. 3:43:26.160 --> 3:43:28.039 All right, we reported the news. 3:43:28.160 --> 3:43:31.280 Boy, howdy did we We reported the news. 3:43:38.040 --> 3:43:41.200 Hey, we'll be back Monday. With more episodes every week 3:43:41.240 --> 3:43:43.160 from now until the heat death of the universe. 3:43:43.920 --> 3:43:46.400 It Could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media. 3:43:46.600 --> 3:43:49.680 For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 3:43:49.720 --> 3:43:53.280 Coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, 3:43:53.360 --> 3:43:55.240 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you. 3:43:55.240 --> 3:43:56.280 Listen to podcasts. 3:43:56.680 --> 3:43:58.640 You can now find sources for It could Happen Here. 3:43:58.640 --> 3:44:00.480 Listened directly an episode just Ruptions. 3:44:00.800 --> 3:44:01.600 Thanks for listening.