Speaker 1: You're listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM
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Speaker 1: supernatural and the unexplained. Get ready now for Shades of
Speaker 1: the Afterlife with Sandra Champlain.
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Speaker 3: Hi.
Speaker 4: I'm Sandra Champlain. For over twenty five years, I've been
Speaker 4: on a journey to prove the existence of life after death.
Speaker 4: On each episode, we'll discuss the reasons we now know
Speaker 4: that our loved ones have survived physical debt, and so
Speaker 4: will we Welcome to Shades of the Afterlife. There is
Speaker 4: a term that I have never used before on Shades
Speaker 4: of the Afterlife? Can you believe it? Over one hundred
Speaker 4: and forty episodes, this term has been appearing quite a
Speaker 4: bit in conversations and Internet searches. All of a sudden,
Speaker 4: there it is. The term is terminal lucidity. I know
Speaker 4: that we've spoken about just before someone passes or the
Speaker 4: weeks they can be alert, see loved ones that are
Speaker 4: right there in the room with them, and they appear
Speaker 4: just like the real people, the doctors, the nurses and families.
Speaker 4: But there's a closely related phenomena, and that's this terminal lucidity,
Speaker 4: which may involve loved ones coming to visit or it
Speaker 4: may not. I remember the very first story I had
Speaker 4: ever heard heard of this, and I just kind of
Speaker 4: put it in the realm of deathbed visions. I had
Speaker 4: a wonderful conversation with a hospice chaplain named Steve Kearney,
Speaker 4: who I knew when I was cooking for the race teams.
Speaker 4: He knew I was interested in life after death, and
Speaker 4: he wanted to tell me the extraordinary story of when
Speaker 4: his father died. He told me that his father had
Speaker 4: been in a coma for months, and shortly before his death,
Speaker 4: he became alive, awake, swung his legs over the bed,
Speaker 4: and of course everybody's trying to stop him because he's
Speaker 4: hooked up to all these tubes and he's looking as
Speaker 4: if looking into heaven, and he's saying it's so beautiful there,
Speaker 4: And they said, Dad, what do you see? And he
Speaker 4: started telling them people that he saw that were deceased,
Speaker 4: and then he said he saw a certain woman who
Speaker 4: had died during this man's coma. So he was never
Speaker 4: told that this lady died, but he could see her there.
Speaker 4: What else can you see? And he felt like he
Speaker 4: heard Jesus saying that he only has a short time
Speaker 4: to live to do the things he wants to do
Speaker 4: because he wouldn't have his body too much longer. What
Speaker 4: did he want? He wanted an apple pie, he wanted
Speaker 4: his family together watching a football game, and he wanted
Speaker 4: a chocolate milkshake. With having all of those, the man
Speaker 4: was crystal clear lucid alive, giving the family the feeling
Speaker 4: like he was back, and just a couple of nights later,
Speaker 4: he passed away. So terminal lucidity is when someone doesn't
Speaker 4: have proper brain or body function and comes alive shortly
Speaker 4: before death. The more I researched this today, the more
Speaker 4: hospice nurses and doctors and people putting comments under YouTube
Speaker 4: videos have experienced this with their loved ones. There have
Speaker 4: been cases of Alzheimer's patients who really have lost use
Speaker 4: of their mind, who haven't spoke, and again they rally.
Speaker 4: They come back to life for just a very short time,
Speaker 4: but can have a conversation for an hour or two
Speaker 4: that makes sense. That's talking about life. They have memories. Now,
Speaker 4: how is this possible in a brain with very little
Speaker 4: brain function? There's something extraordinary going on here. This article
Speaker 4: comes from the Scientific American magazine, written by Jesse Baring.
Speaker 4: When my mother died in early two thousand, we had
Speaker 4: a final farewell that some researchers might consider paranormal. At
Speaker 4: the time, it did strike me as remarkable, and after
Speaker 4: all that these years, I still can't talk about it
Speaker 4: without getting emotional. The night before mom died at the
Speaker 4: age of fifty four after a long battle with ovarian cancer,
Speaker 4: I was sleeping in my mother's bedroom alongside her. The
Speaker 4: truth was that I'd already grieved her loss a few
Speaker 4: days earlier, from the moment she lapsed into what the
Speaker 4: hospice nurses had assured us was an irretrievable coma. So
Speaker 4: at this point, waiting for her body to expire as
Speaker 4: a physical machine wasn't as difficult as the loss of
Speaker 4: her beforehand, which is when I'd completely broken down. It
Speaker 4: had all happened so quickly, and I suppose, being young
Speaker 4: and in denial about how imminent her death really was,
Speaker 4: I hadn't actually gotten around to telling her how very
Speaker 4: grateful I was to have had her as my mom
Speaker 4: and just how much I loved her. But then around
Speaker 4: three a m. I awoke to find her reaching her
Speaker 4: hand out to me, and she seemed very much aware.
Speaker 4: She was too weak to talk, but her eyes communicated all.
Speaker 4: We spent about five minutes holding hands, me sobbing, kissing
Speaker 4: her cheeks, telling her everything I'd meant to say before
Speaker 4: but hadn't. Soon she closed her eyes again, this time
Speaker 4: for good. She died the next day. I didn't quite
Speaker 4: see the experience as supernatural when it happened, and I'm
Speaker 4: not sure I do today either, But I also didn't
Speaker 4: have a name for the experience then. In fact, one
Speaker 4: didn't even exist. It does now, called terminal lucidity. The
Speaker 4: term was coined by German biologist Michael Nahm. He was
Speaker 4: the first to review in an article on the curious
Speaker 4: subject of cognitively impaired people becoming clear headed as their
Speaker 4: death approaches. According to him, and of terminal lucidity. They
Speaker 4: have been recorded for millennia, from accounts by classical scholars
Speaker 4: such as Hippocrates and Cicero to the nineteenth century medical
Speaker 4: luminaries like Benjamin Rush, who wrote the first American paper
Speaker 4: on mental illness. Here's Hownam defined terminal lucidity in that
Speaker 4: original article the reemergence of normal or unusually enhanced mental
Speaker 4: abilities in dull, unconscious, or mentally ill patients shortly before
Speaker 4: their death, including considerable elevation of mood and spiritual affectation,
Speaker 4: or the ability to speak in a previously unusual, spiritualized
Speaker 4: and elated manner. The author characterizes terminal lucidity as one
Speaker 4: of the more common but lesser known end of life experiences.
Speaker 4: On his list include deathbed visions, apparitions, near death or
Speaker 4: out of body experiences, telepathic impressions, and so on. But
Speaker 4: terminal lucidity is a vague concept, needless to say. First
Speaker 4: of all, what exactly should qualify as the time period
Speaker 4: shortly before death minutes, hours, days, maybe months. One man
Speaker 4: who'd been completely catatonic for nearly two decades became almost
Speaker 4: normal and lucid just before he passed away. And the
Speaker 4: second subtype of terminal lucidity. The author tells us full
Speaker 4: mental clarity can appear quite abruptly and unexpectedly, just hours
Speaker 4: or days before death, and one study, seventy percent of
Speaker 4: caretakers in a British nursing home said they'd personally observed
Speaker 4: people with dementia becoming lucid shortly before the deaths. A
Speaker 4: ninety two year old woman with advanced Alzheimer's disease, for instance,
Speaker 4: hadn't recognized her family for years, but the day before
Speaker 4: her death, she had a pleasantly bright conversation with them,
Speaker 4: recalling everyone's name. She was even aware of her own
Speaker 4: age and where she'd been living all of this time.
Speaker 4: Such incidents happened regularly. I'm going to pause reading this
Speaker 4: article right now because I found an excellent conversation between
Speaker 4: two researchers of life after death talking about terminal lucidity.
Speaker 4: So after the break we will hear from them. I'd
Speaker 4: like to read you one more example. This woman says,
Speaker 4: in the mid nineties, with her eyesight rapidly going, in
Speaker 4: her memory diminishing, my maternal grandmother, Kitty Lewis, moved into
Speaker 4: a care home after suffering a series of mini strokes
Speaker 4: and being diagnosed with vascular dementia. From there, her behavior
Speaker 4: began to change. This prim proper, polite and warm woman
Speaker 4: for decades, a stalwart of whichever community she was in,
Speaker 4: had her personality twisted and transformed by dementia, and she
Speaker 4: became paranoid, aggressive, and verbally abusive. Her short term memory
Speaker 4: was shot and the rest of it was patchy. She
Speaker 4: would rarely know who we were as her family, and
Speaker 4: in the last couple of years she was just angry, depressed,
Speaker 4: and confused, and she didn't want to see people. We
Speaker 4: visited anyway, sitting with her while she wanted to die.
Speaker 4: Then in October, she was admitted into the hospital having
Speaker 4: collapsed with a urinary track infection. For a week she
Speaker 4: was barely conscious, but on the Sunday when my parents,
Speaker 4: cousin and I visited, she was sitting up in bed
Speaker 4: smiling as we walked in. For the next two hours,
Speaker 4: she laughed and joked, completely cognitive coherent, lucid. A lifetime
Speaker 4: of memory had returned, and we took full advantage of
Speaker 4: it as she regaled us with escapades from her past.
Speaker 4: My mom, who knew many of them, quietly verified everything
Speaker 4: she said. Her funny, eloquent, vibrant mother had returned. It
Speaker 4: all came back to her in one rush. It was
Speaker 4: like a bolt of lightning. The clouds cleared. After we
Speaker 4: left that afternoon. My grandma slipped into a semi conscious state,
Speaker 4: soon not knowing who my mother was, and died within days.
Speaker 4: We live in what I call a human energy vehicle.
Speaker 4: We are the driver of the car. The car is
Speaker 4: our body. The driver is us, our soul, and this
Speaker 4: energy vehicle. Our body is so intelligent we don't need
Speaker 4: to tell it when to breathe. We get a little
Speaker 4: signal when it's time to sleep, when it's time to eat.
Speaker 4: Do we know that there are trillions of cells in
Speaker 4: our body, each doing different things, and how our heart,
Speaker 4: our liver, our kidneys, all of that functions without us
Speaker 4: having to be in control. I think for the dying process,
Speaker 4: whether it's terminal lucidity, or whether it's seeing our loved
Speaker 4: ones appear helping us cross that finish line, that the
Speaker 4: body and the mind and our consciousness has a plan
Speaker 4: for us. It's all regulated, and it's all controlled, and
Speaker 4: it's all just one more way of saying, you are
Speaker 4: a miraculous being, and you do not die, So let's
Speaker 4: go to the break and we'll be back. You're listening
Speaker 4: to Shades of the Afterlife on the iHeartRadio and Coast
Speaker 4: to Coast AM Paranormal podcast Network.
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Speaker 4: Welcome back to Shades of the Afterlife. I'm Sandra Champlain
Speaker 4: and we are talking about terminal lucidity. Here's a name
Speaker 4: that you should know, an amazing author that I really
Speaker 4: respect is Jeffrey Mishlov. He's the author of such books
Speaker 4: as New Thinking Aloud, is Their Life after Death and
Speaker 4: the Roots of Consciousness. He has fascinating conversations and really
Speaker 4: digs about life after death, consciousness, and so much more.
Speaker 4: In fact, if you go to YouTube, just look up
Speaker 4: New Thinking Aloud with Jeffrey Mishlov. But here's another good
Speaker 4: reason to listen to him. You may have heard of
Speaker 4: the Bigelow Institute's recent contest giving away a total of
Speaker 4: a million dollars for proof of the afterlife that our
Speaker 4: consciousness survives death. Jeffrey Mishlov is the first place winner
Speaker 4: and The title of his entry is called Beyond on
Speaker 4: the Brain, The Survival of Human Consciousness after Permanent bodily Death.
Speaker 4: You can read it at Bigelowinstitute dot org. So what
Speaker 4: we're going to do is evesdrop on a conversation he
Speaker 4: had with doctor Stafford Betty on this topic of terminal lucidity. Now.
Speaker 4: Doctor Betty is a professor of religious studies at California
Speaker 4: State University and is the author of the books The
Speaker 4: Afterlife Unveiled. What the Dead are telling us about their world?
Speaker 4: When did you ever become less by dying? Afterlife? The evidence?
Speaker 7: And more so, let's listen terminal lucidity. It's you know,
Speaker 7: I think it's only been maybe in the last ten
Speaker 7: years that I've even heard the term.
Speaker 6: That's right. It wasn't invented until twenty nine, two thousand
Speaker 6: and nine. Can you believe that? And yet there have
Speaker 6: been cases of terminal lucidity and the literature for the
Speaker 6: last one hundred and twenty years. Yes, but there had
Speaker 6: never been a term used to baptize the phenomena.
Speaker 7: Well know, I suppose many people are just normally very
Speaker 7: lucid as they get ill and as they die. It's
Speaker 7: not unusual for a person to be lucid unless they've
Speaker 7: suffered from some sort of a brain injury.
Speaker 6: Exactly, or illness. And that's what terminal lucidity is looking at.
Speaker 6: It's particularly looking at Alzheimer's patients. Take a woman who
Speaker 6: has lost all ability to communicate with her visitors, with
Speaker 6: her loved ones, and they come. She doesn't recognize them,
Speaker 6: she doesn't know their name, she doesn't speak, she doesn't
Speaker 6: seem to be even aware of her world. She's just
Speaker 6: what we sometimes call a human vegetable.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 6: And then, for some strange reason, just before she dies
Speaker 6: and her loved ones have come to gather around the
Speaker 6: she irrupts into her old personality. Her brain is all
Speaker 6: but totally destroyed, but suddenly she is able to communicate
Speaker 6: with her loved ones. She speaks, she wonders about her
Speaker 6: grandchildren and how they're doing. She knows everyone's names. She's
Speaker 6: completely herself. This is an example of terminal lucidity, and
Speaker 6: it happens. According to doctor Alexander Baianni, who's looked into
Speaker 6: this more than anyone else alive, it happens in about
Speaker 6: five to ten percent of Alzheimer's cases.
Speaker 7: Well, I can say it happened to my mother who
Speaker 7: tell me about that. My mother had Alzheimer's. She died
Speaker 7: six years ago at the age of ninety, and she
Speaker 7: was somewhat coherent before her death. I mean, her memory
Speaker 7: was very, very bad, but she always recognized me. And
Speaker 7: my wife Janelle was with her at this time, and
Speaker 7: she reports that my mother just sort of sat up
Speaker 7: in the bed and they had a lengthy conversation for
Speaker 7: over two hours in which my mother was her old self,
Speaker 7: like at least more than ten years earlier, before this
Speaker 7: illness had destroyed so much of her memory. And they
Speaker 7: talked about, you know, her marriage and her children, how
Speaker 7: she was progressing with her disease. And she had had
Speaker 7: a boyfriend who had died a year earlier, and she
Speaker 7: was her Alzheimer's had progressed so badly that she kept
Speaker 7: asking for him all the time the whole year. She
Speaker 7: just could not digest the fact that he had died.
Speaker 7: I see, But all of that was clear. She was
Speaker 7: completely lucid.
Speaker 6: Right, that's terminal lucidity. How long did it take before
Speaker 6: she died after that experience? Do you remember less than
Speaker 6: a week?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 6: Okay, there it is right. It usually runs between a
Speaker 6: couple of weeks and just a matter of minutes. Yeah,
Speaker 6: there it is now. Terminal lucidity is not something that
Speaker 6: is confined to Alzheimer's. Anyone who has had a seriously
Speaker 6: damaged brain or a brain that's been eaten away by
Speaker 6: maybe cancer, is capable. Unpredictably, we never know who they're
Speaker 6: going to.
Speaker 7: My wife had another similar experience with a client of
Speaker 7: hers who a psychotherapy client who she had worked with
Speaker 7: for many, many years, who was a very serious alcoholic
Speaker 7: and had all sorts of emotional and physical problems and
Speaker 7: attachments due to the alcoholism. And she died in childbirth.
Speaker 7: It was very tragic circumstances. But shortly before her death,
Speaker 7: I think it was the same day in fact, or
Speaker 7: maybe the day before, she like my mother, sat up
Speaker 7: in the hospital bed and they had a lengthy conversation.
Speaker 7: And the interesting thing is that she seemed emotionally for
Speaker 7: the first time, totally clear, totally objective about herself, able
Speaker 7: to look at her own life and understand things that
Speaker 7: had eluded her in psychotherapy for years and years. And
Speaker 7: her greatest wish at that time is, oh, I wish
Speaker 7: everybody could see me like this. Yeah, yeah, she knew
Speaker 7: that this was different. Yeah, that's another example. Let me
Speaker 7: go back into the past and dretch up a couple
Speaker 7: of famous cases. A biologist, professor.
Speaker 6: The University of Freiburg in Germany, Michael Naum, is responsible
Speaker 6: for bringing all of this stuff that we now call
Speaker 6: terminal lucidity out of the dark and wrote a long
Speaker 6: article for the Journal of Near Death Studies on famous
Speaker 6: cases that he now recognized as being what we now
Speaker 6: call termal lucidity. And the most famous case is that
Speaker 6: of a girl whose name was Kita k a t
Speaker 6: h e. Kita, a German girl, and she had the
Speaker 6: absolutely she had. She had been born profoundly disabled, never
Speaker 6: capable of as she grew older, of making any more
Speaker 6: movement than just sort of spasmodic jerk. She had no
Speaker 6: control over her body. She never learned a single word,
Speaker 6: never spoken a word. Just a tragic case of someone
Speaker 6: whom you would say it was better had she not
Speaker 6: been born profound, profoundly retarded, and she had been hospitalized
Speaker 6: her entire life. Okay, just left there basically the rod
Speaker 6: away and I would say, fortunately, she contracted the disease
Speaker 6: of tuberculosis as a teenager, and she was close to death,
Speaker 6: and the most astonishing thing happened just before she died.
Speaker 6: She became a lucid person, speaking German, singing Christian hymns.
Speaker 6: And can you imagine the amazement of all of the staff,
Speaker 6: somebody who had never spoken, never spoken a word.
Speaker 7: And I know this occurs that a nephew who had
Speaker 7: the same condition born without a corpus colosive brain severely damaged.
Speaker 6: Unbelievable. Anyway, there she was, and she was a transformed person.
Speaker 6: They spoke about how her face glowed with this kind
Speaker 6: of spirituality, and up to this point it to have
Speaker 6: been nothing but just, you know, kind of animalistic. The
Speaker 6: only kind of sounds she ever made were animalistic sounds.
Speaker 6: Absolute transformation. There's no way to explain via conventional brain
Speaker 6: science how that could have happened. And that's true of
Speaker 6: Alzheimer's patients. You know, their brains have been eaten up
Speaker 6: to such an extent that there is no way to explain.
Speaker 7: These lucides generally considered irreversible.
Speaker 6: It's irreversible, it is, And this leads a number of
Speaker 6: us to a very different kind of conclusion. The reason
Speaker 6: these loose lucid moments happen is not because there's been
Speaker 6: a sudden creation of billions of new brain cells in
Speaker 6: this brain. It's that the being, the consciousness, the person
Speaker 6: who really is, has managed to loosen herself or himself
Speaker 6: from the brain. The soul in other words, if you
Speaker 6: want to call it, that has managed to loosen itself
Speaker 6: from the brain, and that has made it possible for
Speaker 6: this remarkable transcendence.
Speaker 7: And loosen from the brain, but still in control of
Speaker 7: the vocal cords.
Speaker 6: Somehow. It's very mysterious how this all works. Doctor Bognanni
Speaker 6: uses a wonderful analogy. He talks of the consciousness or
Speaker 6: the soul, if you will, spiritual self as being like
Speaker 6: the sun in eclipse, and the moon is causing the eclipse.
Speaker 6: If you move, and the moon, of course is like
Speaker 6: the sick brain, you remove the moon or the sick brain,
Speaker 6: then the sun shines. There was never anything wrong with
Speaker 6: the sun in the first place. It's just that it
Speaker 6: couldn't communicate because it was obstructed by the sick brain.
Speaker 7: So you, in a sense regard the cases of terminal
Speaker 7: lucidity as evidence for the notion that the spirit or
Speaker 7: mind or psyche or consciousness can operate independently of the
Speaker 7: soma or the body, or the nervous system and brain.
Speaker 6: That's exactly right. It's sort of a duellist, exactly so.
Speaker 6: And it is one of the nine types of evidence
Speaker 6: for survival of death that I go through in my book.
Speaker 6: It's I think it's the weakest of them, but I
Speaker 6: think still it's very suggestive. And it becomes more suggestive
Speaker 6: when you look at the research done by a doctor
Speaker 6: in Britain named John Lorber. He was the head of
Speaker 6: a hospital, or I guess it was a hospital. Six
Speaker 6: hundred hydrocephalics were kept. Okay, and these are people with
Speaker 6: big heads, water on the brain, yes, And in many
Speaker 6: of these cases the brain has almost completely disappeared. The
Speaker 6: fluid has basically taken the place of the brain.
Speaker 4: I know you're on the edge of your seat waiting
Speaker 4: for him to finish the story, but we have to
Speaker 4: take a break, so don't go anywhere. We'll be right back.
Speaker 4: You're listening to Shades of the Afterlife on the iHeartRadio
Speaker 4: in Coast to Coast a and Paranormal Podcast Network. The
Speaker 4: Internet is an extraordinary resource that links our children to
Speaker 4: a world of information, experiences, and ideas. It can also
Speaker 4: expose them to risk. Teach your children the basic safety
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Speaker 6: Dolman, and you're listening to the.
Speaker 4: iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network.
Speaker 8: Hi, this is ufologist Kevin Randall, and you're listening to
Speaker 8: the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network.
Speaker 4: Welcome back to Shades of the Afterlife. I'm Sandra Champlain
Speaker 4: and we are eavesdropping on a very interesting conversation between
Speaker 4: doctors Stafford Betty and Jeffrey mish Love on something called
Speaker 4: terminal lucidity. Just before someone passes away, even if they
Speaker 4: have had no brain function, can come back to life.
Speaker 4: Let's continue his story.
Speaker 6: A doctor in Britain named John Lorber. He was the
Speaker 6: head of a hospital. Six hundred hydrocephalics were kept okay,
Speaker 6: and these are people with big heads water on the brain.
Speaker 6: Many of these cases, the brain has almost completely disappeared.
Speaker 6: The fluid has basically taken the place of the brain.
Speaker 6: In thirty out of six hundred cases. The IQ's of
Speaker 6: these people with very little brain left is one hundred
Speaker 6: or more. That's what he was able to determine. In
Speaker 6: one case, his star pupil had only five percent of
Speaker 6: a normal brain an IQ of one hundred and twenty
Speaker 6: six was functioning as a normal, intelligent person, and that
Speaker 6: leads him to believe, and it leads me to believe
Speaker 6: that the question is the brain really necessary should be asked,
Speaker 6: because in a few cases it obviously isn't necessary, and
Speaker 6: that seems to be supportive of the thesis that who
Speaker 6: we really are is not brain dependent.
Speaker 7: Well, there are a number of other cases in the
Speaker 7: literature of people who suffered from major brain damage. I
Speaker 7: remember there's a famous case from the nineteenth century of
Speaker 7: a rail road worker who had a railroad spike through
Speaker 7: his head exactly so I was able to function normally
Speaker 7: exactly so.
Speaker 6: Right. There's another case that doctor professor nam on Earth
Speaker 6: of a woman who had been in an asylum for
Speaker 6: eight years and she had some kind of brain damage.
Speaker 6: It was never said what was the cause of it,
Speaker 6: but she had turned into an appalling human being. The
Speaker 6: only thing that ever came out of her mouth while
Speaker 6: in this asylum for eight years were horrible curses. And
Speaker 6: she also managed to develop a particular skill of spitting
Speaker 6: very accurately on the shoes of the priest or the
Speaker 6: doctor who came to visit her. She was uncannily accurate
Speaker 6: with her spinning, all right, and so shortly before she died,
Speaker 6: she hadn't come plea transformation of character and personality. She
Speaker 6: remembered all of those episodes of spitting. She remembered all
Speaker 6: of those cursings, and she was profoundly sorry for them. Yes,
Speaker 6: she felt that she was not in control. She was
Speaker 6: aware of what was happening, but she didn't feel that
Speaker 6: she was in control. It just suggests the number of
Speaker 6: ways that terminal lucidity can manifest itself, and it did
Speaker 6: in this instance in a very different way.
Speaker 7: Well, when we think about brain function, right, one of
Speaker 7: the intriguing things to me, for example, is parrots. Parrots
Speaker 7: are animals that are highly intelligent. They can speak and
Speaker 7: sometimes acquire a large vocabulary, and their speech is often
Speaker 7: in context it makes sense. And yet they have tiny,
Speaker 7: tiny little brains.
Speaker 6: It's true, that's true. Maybe even the dinosaurs are smarter
Speaker 6: than we give them credit for. They also had tiny friends.
Speaker 7: In an era of computer technology where the processors are
Speaker 7: getting smaller and smaller all the time, and yet more
Speaker 7: and more powerful.
Speaker 6: I know.
Speaker 7: It's so so the size of the brain may not
Speaker 7: be as determinative as was once thought. Where we do
Speaker 7: all of these ratios between the brain mass and the body.
Speaker 6: Weight exactly, So that does appear to be the case
Speaker 6: when we look at Labbres research, that really does appear
Speaker 6: to be the case. Only in five percent of the cases.
Speaker 6: Let that be said. You know, the other ninety five
Speaker 6: percent were pretty much lost in their hydrocephalic fluid and
Speaker 6: they were not able to function. But this five percent
Speaker 6: were able to function curiously for reasons we can't understand,
Speaker 6: with very damaged brains or very tiny brains. Who knows why.
Speaker 7: Now. Earlier, you and I were having a conversation about
Speaker 7: the relationship between terminal lucidity and deathbed visions. Oh okay,
Speaker 7: can you pointed out to me you thought these are
Speaker 7: very different.
Speaker 6: Yeah, And we had a little disagreement on this. I
Speaker 6: would say this that you know, with in deathbed visions,
Speaker 6: the patient, the dying person is talking lucidly to spirits.
Speaker 6: Then he or she sees visiting her or him in
Speaker 6: the room right in the hospital. Okay, whereas interminal lucidity.
Speaker 6: There isn't ever any mention of visiting paranormal entities.
Speaker 7: That seems a little odd. I mean, if normal people
Speaker 7: who are dying experience these visions, why wouldn't a person
Speaker 7: who was becoming lucid prior to death also experience them.
Speaker 6: That's a good question, I guess the answer would be
Speaker 6: that they already have so much on their plate just
Speaker 6: for them to become normal and speak to people around.
Speaker 7: Them, so they have other priorities. They have other priorities
Speaker 7: at the time, and one priority that obviously a dying
Speaker 7: person will have is to kind of complete the communication
Speaker 7: at an emotional level with people.
Speaker 6: With people around them, with their loved ones, you know,
Speaker 6: very much in this world, not in the next world. Though.
Speaker 6: There's nothing, of course that would rule that possibility out, Jeff,
Speaker 6: I have to grant you that I just haven't come
Speaker 6: across a case like that yet. Well.
Speaker 7: And of course, the typical case where you'd even want
Speaker 7: to remark that somebody is especially lucid prior to their
Speaker 7: death is because they've had some disease or damage to
Speaker 7: their brain or nervous system that would make that unusual.
Speaker 6: In the first place exactly, so that would be assumed
Speaker 6: before you would use that phrase.
Speaker 7: Because people who are having deathbed visions are all lucid.
Speaker 6: That's right, they're normal people. They've not had damaged brains,
Speaker 6: and their experiences are extraordinary enough. And we talked about
Speaker 6: that on another program. But it's not quite the same
Speaker 6: thing as terminal lucidity. So I remember another case one
Speaker 6: that was written up ten years ago as a matter
Speaker 6: of fact in Time magazine, of all things, but apparently
Speaker 6: it didn't really have much of an impact on people.
Speaker 6: It certainly had an impact on me because it was
Speaker 6: a classic case of terminal lucidity. He was a man
Speaker 6: who had contracted cancer what is the term when he
Speaker 6: goes all over the place metastasized metastasized, and it had
Speaker 6: completely eaten away his brain. He had almost nothing left,
Speaker 6: There was nothing to communicate with, and he again was
Speaker 6: just a human vegetable, and his dear ones came to
Speaker 6: say goodbye to him, just on the point of death,
Speaker 6: and he had this incredible lucidity. The doctor who was
Speaker 6: in charge of the case was astounded and was convinced,
Speaker 6: though he's not a religious person, that the mind somehow
Speaker 6: was able to through that sick brain, force itself out
Speaker 6: and say goodbye to his loved ones. That was what
Speaker 6: we used. The words he used. It forced itself through
Speaker 6: that sick brain. It didn't just jettison it, but forced
Speaker 6: its way through. I like that way of speaking it.
Speaker 6: And it just suggests how relatively rare terminal lucidity is.
Speaker 6: Keep in mind that somewhere between ninety to ninety five
Speaker 6: percent of advanced Alzheimer's cases do not experience terminal lucidity.
Speaker 6: Maybe because it's just too hard to do, who knows.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I can imagine that, but it surely gives one
Speaker 7: pause to think about the consciousness and the brain is
Speaker 7: being very distinct from me.
Speaker 6: It does, it does, and that of course is what
Speaker 6: I am trying to show in my book. And it's
Speaker 6: the last of the chapters coming out of psychical research
Speaker 6: or paranormal research. And I think it has a statement
Speaker 6: to make. It's very suggestive. It doesn't prove, but it's
Speaker 6: very suggestive. And I hope that doctor Bunjohnny will be
Speaker 6: able to come up with more and more evidence that
Speaker 6: supports this conclusion. And he is, I've written him, he
Speaker 6: is very open to this possibility that this is a
Speaker 6: kind of evidence for the soul.
Speaker 7: Well, it's not so different than evidence, let's say, from
Speaker 7: extrasensory perception or remote viewing, where a normal person in
Speaker 7: their normal state of consciousness is able to kind of
Speaker 7: reach out with their mind and acquire information from distant
Speaker 7: points in space and time that would never be accessible
Speaker 7: through normal sensory means.
Speaker 6: Yeah, well, you know, the paranormal is the paranormal, and
Speaker 6: so what you're doing is linking these various extraordinary, unexplainable
Speaker 6: situations together. They all suggest that our life is more
Speaker 6: vertical than we think. You know, we're not Flanders, and
Speaker 6: our good friends who are materialists or physicalists I refer
Speaker 6: to them, at least privately, as flat Landers. They need
Speaker 6: to verticalize their life.
Speaker 7: Well, I think you can still. To be honest, you
Speaker 7: could be a physicalist like my friend Ed May, who's
Speaker 7: can on this program and still and disagrees. He thinks
Speaker 7: that if I come up with solid evidence for survival,
Speaker 7: they cannot be explained by what we call living agents,
Speaker 7: I that that would disprove his physicalism. But I think no,
Speaker 7: I think that physicalism can accommodate it. If we take
Speaker 7: a look at all of this work going on in
Speaker 7: higher mathematics and in string theory involving higher dimensions of
Speaker 7: space hyperspace. If we allow space to be much more
Speaker 7: complex than we normally think of it, then we could
Speaker 7: accommodate a.
Speaker 6: Kind of physicalism anyway.
Speaker 7: An afterlife, And as you've talked about yourself, the communications
Speaker 7: from the other side say it's very similar to our
Speaker 7: physical existence, suggests that it's kind of physical.
Speaker 6: It is kind of physical. I would prefer to say
Speaker 6: that it's kind of material. They often speak of vibrations.
Speaker 6: It's a kind of a physics of physics of the afterworld.
Speaker 6: Vibrates at a level then how our sensors cannot accommodate,
Speaker 6: cannot relate to. And it is not a purely spiritual environment.
Speaker 6: It is a world of beauty that the sensors can
Speaker 6: appreciate that we can walk in. All of that is
Speaker 6: asserted by by spirits speaking through legitimate mediums. Absolutely. So, Yeah,
Speaker 6: at some point maybe there will be a physics of
Speaker 6: the astral.
Speaker 4: I think you can agree that was a pretty interesting conversation.
Speaker 4: You want to check out doctor Jeffrey mish Love and
Speaker 4: doctor staff Betty To, a long time explorers into the
Speaker 4: world of the Afterlife. So let's go to our next
Speaker 4: break and we'll come back with some more stories. You're
Speaker 4: listening to Shades of the Afterlife on the iHeartRadio and
Speaker 4: Coast to Coast AM Paranormal podcast network.
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Speaker 9: This is Afterlife expert Daniel Braakley, and you're listening to
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Speaker 4: Welcome back to Shades of the Afterlife. I'm Sandra Champlain.
Speaker 4: We have been talking about terminal lucidity. Hospice workers call
Speaker 4: this rallying r A l l y people rally or
Speaker 4: ken rally just before they pass. What I'd like to
Speaker 4: do now is play an old recording for you of
Speaker 4: hospice nurses. Now, these are not examples of terminal lucidity,
Speaker 4: but they are examples of these deathbed visions, and they're
Speaker 4: precious and I just think they'll make you feel good.
Speaker 4: And I know for me, it just reminds me that
Speaker 4: we go on and that loved ones are there to
Speaker 4: greet us, So let's listen.
Speaker 8: By working with the dying, hospice nurses gain an insight
Speaker 8: into death and the opportunity to witness the signs of
Speaker 8: a life beyond our own.
Speaker 10: I had one gentlemen three months after I started working
Speaker 10: in hospice. I thought, I can't do this anymore. This
Speaker 10: is just too much. I'm going to get burned. Out
Speaker 10: or it's just too stressful. And so just as I
Speaker 10: was really trying to debate whether I was going to
Speaker 10: leave this field or not, I had an experience that
Speaker 10: just kind of blew me away.
Speaker 3: And one of the LPNs came up to me and said, mistress,
Speaker 3: and so I just died. And so I took that.
Speaker 10: Information and we said, all right, we'll call a physician
Speaker 10: and call a corner and get all the information that
Speaker 10: we need. And I was walking down the hall and
Speaker 10: making bad checks and sure everybody was okay, and this
Speaker 10: one old fellow was climbing.
Speaker 3: Out of bed.
Speaker 10: He was really out of pain control, and I was thinking,
Speaker 10: you know, we need to just.
Speaker 3: Get me settled down.
Speaker 10: And I walked into the room and I said, let
Speaker 10: me help you get taken care of it. And he
Speaker 10: said I got to get out of here. And I said,
Speaker 10: I understand, you know, and he said I I have
Speaker 10: to die. And I said, you know, I would probably
Speaker 10: want to die too if I had that much pain,
Speaker 10: and let me help you. Let me see what we
Speaker 10: can do. He said, no, you don't understand. He said
Speaker 10: I have to die. And I said, well, I don't
Speaker 10: know where it came from. I said, well, you have
Speaker 10: to wait till you get your own invitation. Sometimes it
Speaker 10: just because we want to die doesn't mean we get
Speaker 10: to die. We have to wait till it's time. Well,
Speaker 10: that guy down there just got his invitation. He said,
Speaker 10: I knew him from Lyman. And I said, what do
Speaker 10: you mean And he said, well, he just shuffled by
Speaker 10: here and I here on the back of my neck
Speaker 10: stood up and he said, I thought that was a
Speaker 10: curious term, shuffle by. And he said, I want you
Speaker 10: to go get my son.
Speaker 3: He said, I knew him. I knew him from Lyman
Speaker 3: when we were kids.
Speaker 10: And he said, and he just shuffled by, and he
Speaker 10: points from his door to the window and how it
Speaker 10: acrossed in front of his bed.
Speaker 3: And I thought, boy, there's a lot I don't know yet.
Speaker 11: I had a kid that I lost last week who
Speaker 11: saw horses. That he saw a horse and his dream
Speaker 11: was about two weeks before he died. He was on
Speaker 11: this big brown horse and they were going through the
Speaker 11: field and it was very smooth.
Speaker 3: It wasn't like a gallop, but they weren't flying.
Speaker 11: And he said that all of a sudden they kind
Speaker 11: of jumped over a barrier and when they landed. They
Speaker 11: landed in a river bank that had over load its beds,
Speaker 11: and it stopped. The horse stopped and turned sideways, waiting
Speaker 11: for this kid to tell him which way to go,
Speaker 11: whether to go into the woods or out of the woods.
Speaker 11: And I asked him which way he chose, and he said, well,
Speaker 11: we went out, And I said, what do you think
Speaker 11: would have happened if you had gone into the woods.
Speaker 3: He said, I think I'd have been gone.
Speaker 11: And I told him I thought he would too, And
Speaker 11: I told him that that horse would probably come back
Speaker 11: for him when it was time for him to go,
Speaker 11: That horse would be the one to come back. Well,
Speaker 11: that afternoon, his mom was washing dishes and the horse
Speaker 11: came and she went to talk to him, and she
Speaker 11: asked David if his horse was there, and he said yes,
Speaker 11: and she said, I think he's probably here to get you.
Speaker 11: And she said I think so too, And within two
Speaker 11: hours he had gone.
Speaker 3: He had died on his horse.
Speaker 12: You feel a presence, you feel something is in the room.
Speaker 12: You know that there's something there. And one time there
Speaker 12: was this man and he was really really close to death,
Speaker 12: and he was very very weak, and and he looked
Speaker 12: up and he he was looking at something, and he
Speaker 12: looked very, very scared, and the nurse said to him,
Speaker 12: it's okay. They're there to help you. There, they won't
Speaker 12: hurt you. And and he put his hand up and
Speaker 12: and he had his hand up like somebody was holding it.
Speaker 12: And he did this for a few minutes. And there
Speaker 12: is no way this man had the strength to hold
Speaker 12: his hand up by himself.
Speaker 10: Uh. And he died just a few minutes later too.
Speaker 10: So there's something. I had one really neat fellow that
Speaker 10: we were taking to the hospice unit and he was
Speaker 10: really close to dying, and his his son was nearby.
Speaker 10: And this poor guy went through an incredible bath from
Speaker 10: the nurse, I mean, and he didn't move it all.
Speaker 3: Didn't even blink and eye, so.
Speaker 10: We would say he was an unresponsive And as we
Speaker 10: were walking down the hall, pushing his bed down the hall,
Speaker 10: he opened his eyes and he looked straight up and
Speaker 10: his little toothless mouth and he went and waved and
Speaker 10: then just smiled in close size, and five minutes later
Speaker 10: he was gone. I don't know who's waving at, but
Speaker 10: that's not uncommon.
Speaker 6: As death approaches, patients may have visions of angels or
Speaker 6: see tunnels of white light. Other people receive angelic comfort
Speaker 6: from someone they already know.
Speaker 10: Patients who are closer to their dying time will see
Speaker 10: those who have already died. Oftentimes they'll talk about dead
Speaker 10: grandparents sitting at their bedside, brothers who've died before. I'm
Speaker 10: not so certain that we just see spirits running around.
Speaker 10: I don't really believe that, and I've never heard anything
Speaker 10: that scary. But I have heard of a lot of
Speaker 10: patients who are very afraid of dying talk about seeing
Speaker 10: a father in law kitchen, and.
Speaker 3: That would scare me out of my mind.
Speaker 10: But they're not afraid, and it really made me realize
Speaker 10: about how they.
Speaker 3: They are just sort of drifting to the other side.
Speaker 3: They had one foot here and one foot.
Speaker 10: Somewhere else, and a patient who's very frightened. We'll tell
Speaker 10: you that, and yet for some reason it doesn't bother them.
Speaker 3: That bothered me.
Speaker 12: But Mary was a fifty two year old woman. She
Speaker 12: had little Gary's disease and it was getting pretty bad.
Speaker 12: She was pretty close to death and the muscles in
Speaker 12: her throat were closing up. They weren't working very well,
Speaker 12: and she had this fear that she was going to drown,
Speaker 12: which is essentially was a real possibility for her, and
Speaker 12: one of her last wish was that her mother not
Speaker 12: be told. Her mother was ninety years old, and her mother,
Speaker 12: she liked to be called Grahama Rose, and she just said,
Speaker 12: this is too hard for a mother to go through,
Speaker 12: to watch a child die, and especially the way I'm
Speaker 12: I don't want my mother to know.
Speaker 10: Now.
Speaker 12: The family was in conflict with this, but it was
Speaker 12: her last wish, so what could they do? And then
Speaker 12: the story, as Gramma Rose tells me, is she lived
Speaker 12: in Texas and one night she went to bed. She
Speaker 12: was getting into bed and she saw her husband standing there,
Speaker 12: and her husband had been dead for twenty years, but
Speaker 12: she said that he was as real to her as
Speaker 12: I am to you. And he said, Rose, I've come
Speaker 12: to take Mary home. And at that point, Grandma Rose
Speaker 12: she just started to scream and said, no, no, please,
Speaker 12: let me go back and hold my baby one more time.
Speaker 12: Don't take her until I've gone and I've held her
Speaker 12: and I've said goodbye and I've kissed her.
Speaker 3: Please don't do that.
Speaker 12: And so he just kind of smiled and faded away,
Speaker 12: and she knew at that point that he would allow that.
Speaker 12: So she got a the next plane. She came to
Speaker 12: Denver and for three days she stayed with her daughter,
Speaker 12: and she told her stories, and she combed her hair,
Speaker 12: and she gave her bath, and she was holding her
Speaker 12: daughter when she died, and I was there, and she
Speaker 12: just looked at me and she said, you know, I
Speaker 12: brought her into the world, and it's only right that
Speaker 12: I'm with her when she goes out.
Speaker 3: And it would have never happened.
Speaker 12: If Mary's husband would have come come to her and
Speaker 12: told her that he was taking her home.
Speaker 10: Like one person said to me, it's easy for you
Speaker 10: to say, it's going to be peaceful. You're not going
Speaker 10: to die, you know, and you know you're right. All
Speaker 10: I know is what I see, And all I know
Speaker 10: is that somewhere along the line, you're not going to
Speaker 10: be afraid anymore. Somewhere in that last those last hours,
Speaker 10: it's going to go away and somebody will throw you
Speaker 10: a lifeline.
Speaker 4: I'm sitting here right now thinking just how special this is.
Speaker 4: We really do go on and loved ones come to
Speaker 4: greet us or animals. I want to read to you now,
Speaker 4: just a couple of quick things. This lady says, My
Speaker 4: mom looked out the window of her hospice room and
Speaker 4: said she saw all of the dogs she ever had
Speaker 4: in her entire life, from the time she was a
Speaker 4: child playing outside in the courtyard. She looked so happy
Speaker 4: and she smiled, and then she passed away. And another
Speaker 4: my father passed away two weeks ago. He was ninety
Speaker 4: seven and in hospice. He had basically been non responsive
Speaker 4: for weeks. Two days before he died, he had about
Speaker 4: six lucid hours. He woke up continually, He asked for food,
Speaker 4: asked for a bowl of ice cream, and wanted to
Speaker 4: drink his nightly martini, which he did. He was laughing
Speaker 4: and joking and very much himself, and then two days
Speaker 4: later he died. I know you may be a new listener,
Speaker 4: or you may be a long time listener, But for
Speaker 4: the past one hundred and forty plus episodes, I've been
Speaker 4: trying to give you my all. Not each one of
Speaker 4: us is going to witness a loved one have one
Speaker 4: of these experiences, but through all these hours of episodes
Speaker 4: to give you reasons to believe and have faith that
Speaker 4: you are an immortal soul having a human experience. You
Speaker 4: are so much bigger and wiser than you could ever imagine.
Speaker 4: We are trapped by this little voice in our head
Speaker 4: that tries to convince us that we are just human.
Speaker 4: But that's not true. We are so much bigger. There's
Speaker 4: more to life than meets the eye, and more to
Speaker 4: you than you know. Right now, you are surrounded by
Speaker 4: invisible cheerleaders who know how hard it is to live
Speaker 4: a human life. They will be there when it's your time,
Speaker 4: but not too soon, to help you across the veil
Speaker 4: to probably the biggest standing ovation that you've crossed over
Speaker 4: and completed this life. Make the most of it while
Speaker 4: you're here. There's things that we can't do over there.
Speaker 4: There are things that we can learn over here that
Speaker 4: really add depth to our soul. So take up every
Speaker 4: experience you can with that reminder. Our home base is
Speaker 4: we Don't Die dot com. Please come visit me on
Speaker 4: one of our Sunday gatherings, or take a course, or
Speaker 4: just check out other past episodes, or join our Facebook group.
Speaker 4: I'm Sandra Champlain. Thank you for listening to Shades of
Speaker 4: the Afterlife on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast am
Speaker 4: Paranormal podcast Network.
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast
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