WEBVTT - Is Recycling Worth the Hassle? 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:00.960 Guess what mango? 0:00:01.080 --> 0:00:01.760 What's that? Will? 0:00:01.960 --> 0:00:04.000 So are you familiar with tots magoats? 0:00:04.160 --> 0:00:06.160 Oh? Please don't tell me you're going to start using 0:00:06.160 --> 0:00:06.800 that phrase. 0:00:07.160 --> 0:00:09.120 No, I'm not talking about the term though, though now 0:00:09.119 --> 0:00:11.800 I'm tots magoat's going to start using it. But I'm 0:00:11.840 --> 0:00:14.880 talking about this weird man goat mascot that they used 0:00:14.880 --> 0:00:17.080 in the Niagara Falls area, and you know, it's to 0:00:17.079 --> 0:00:19.040 help people start recycling more. 0:00:19.320 --> 0:00:21.280 I can't say I've heard of that, and it sounds 0:00:21.320 --> 0:00:23.759 like a horrible idea. Did you say, mangat? 0:00:24.120 --> 0:00:26.680 I did, and it is super weird looking. You should 0:00:26.680 --> 0:00:29.840 totally look up tots mgoats. But you know, supposedly since 0:00:29.920 --> 0:00:33.520 introducing this really bizarre mascot a few years ago, recycling 0:00:33.640 --> 0:00:36.440 is actually up fifty percent in this area and the 0:00:36.479 --> 0:00:39.600 amount of trash going to landfills has dropped by twenty percent. 0:00:39.800 --> 0:00:42.319 Okay, so I just pulled them up, and honestly, if 0:00:42.360 --> 0:00:44.920 I thought this scary looking mascot with a tiny goat 0:00:44.920 --> 0:00:47.640 heead was going to come after me, I'd start recycling too. 0:00:48.200 --> 0:00:50.360 Maybe it's just a scare tactic they're using. 0:00:50.720 --> 0:00:52.640 I don't know. But on the topic of how much 0:00:52.680 --> 0:00:55.560 we recycle. We've had several questions we've been meaning to 0:00:55.600 --> 0:00:58.000 get to and things like, you know, what's the state 0:00:58.040 --> 0:01:00.520 of recycling in the US, and is it a good 0:01:00.560 --> 0:01:03.160 business to be in? Is it even worth it to recycle? 0:01:03.560 --> 0:01:06.360 And what are the weirdest things people can recycle? Now 0:01:06.800 --> 0:01:10.679 it's Toat's Magot's time to find out. Please all right, 0:01:10.680 --> 0:01:34.440 but let's dive in. Hey, their podcast listeners, welcome to 0:01:34.440 --> 0:01:36.920 Part Time Genius. I'm Will Pearson and as always I'm 0:01:36.959 --> 0:01:39.399 joined by my good friend mangeshat Ticketter And on the 0:01:39.400 --> 0:01:42.160 other side of the soundproof glass separating his number one 0:01:42.280 --> 0:01:44.640 and number two plastics from the rest of the bunch, 0:01:44.959 --> 0:01:47.039 that's our friend and producer Tristan McNeil. 0:01:47.440 --> 0:01:49.600 Yeah, and good for Tristan for doing that. Most folks 0:01:49.640 --> 0:01:51.840 don't even know the numbers inside the recycling system on 0:01:51.920 --> 0:01:54.600 plastic containers and that they're actually a way to tell 0:01:54.680 --> 0:01:58.120 which kinds can and can't be recycled. But Tristan has 0:01:58.160 --> 0:02:01.680 the whole resin identification hode down and that's just the 0:02:01.720 --> 0:02:02.440 kind of guy he is. 0:02:03.080 --> 0:02:05.560 Well, and we love him for it, and especially today 0:02:05.560 --> 0:02:07.320 because we're going to be taking a hard look at 0:02:07.360 --> 0:02:09.959 the current state of recycling in the world and asking 0:02:10.000 --> 0:02:13.160 a tough question, you know, is recycling worth it? Because 0:02:13.200 --> 0:02:15.120 when you think about it, the practice is a pretty 0:02:15.240 --> 0:02:18.840 unique blend of environmentalism and business, and it's one that 0:02:18.880 --> 0:02:22.040 the majority of developed nations agree is a pretty sensible 0:02:22.080 --> 0:02:25.480 thing to do. And I mean, of course, recycling makes environmental sense. 0:02:25.520 --> 0:02:28.640 It reduces the trash we send to the landfills and 0:02:28.680 --> 0:02:32.280 conserves natural resources that you know would otherwise go into 0:02:32.320 --> 0:02:36.400 making new products. But it also makes economic sense. For example, 0:02:36.400 --> 0:02:38.360 I was looking at a study by the EPA, this 0:02:38.440 --> 0:02:41.680 report they released back in twenty sixteen, and it found 0:02:41.680 --> 0:02:45.080 that within a single year, recycling and reuse activities in 0:02:45.080 --> 0:02:48.480 the US account for seven hundred and fifty seven thousand 0:02:48.600 --> 0:02:52.200 jobs and almost seven billion in tax revenue and over 0:02:52.280 --> 0:02:56.120 thirty six billion in wages. So recycling clearly leads to 0:02:56.160 --> 0:02:59.440 some very real and valuable benefits. But of course those 0:02:59.440 --> 0:03:01.079 benefits always come with a. 0:03:01.040 --> 0:03:03.680 Cost, right, So today we'll try to balance the books 0:03:03.680 --> 0:03:06.360 and get a sense of whether recycling is actually paying 0:03:06.400 --> 0:03:10.200 off both environmentally and economically. But before we get into that, 0:03:10.280 --> 0:03:11.880 I want to take a minute to talk about how 0:03:11.919 --> 0:03:14.720 recycling became a thing that people do in the first place. 0:03:14.600 --> 0:03:16.720 You're always going back to the origins and things, but 0:03:16.800 --> 0:03:19.119 with recycling, like, I didn't even know there was an 0:03:19.200 --> 0:03:20.600 origin of recycling. 0:03:20.880 --> 0:03:23.760 Yeah, I mean, wide scale recycling programs are a fairly 0:03:23.800 --> 0:03:26.240 new phenomenon in history. They kind of arose during the 0:03:26.280 --> 0:03:30.600 industrial and post industrial ages as manufacturing was kicking into overdrive. 0:03:31.040 --> 0:03:34.480 So humans started using more and more natural resources to 0:03:34.520 --> 0:03:37.840 produce more new things than ever before. And meanwhile, you know, 0:03:37.920 --> 0:03:40.760 the thrifty people started looking for ways to just reuse 0:03:40.800 --> 0:03:43.520 what was already out there instead. So, for example, in 0:03:43.560 --> 0:03:47.200 the late eighteen hundreds, these European cities like London and Paris, 0:03:47.440 --> 0:03:50.040 they were rife with what you'd call rag and bone men. 0:03:50.640 --> 0:03:53.760 And these were pebblers who just wandered around and collected 0:03:53.800 --> 0:03:56.880 and carted around sacks of reusable items, and then they'd 0:03:56.880 --> 0:03:58.320 sell those back to general stores. 0:03:58.600 --> 0:04:00.880 All right, so rag and bone, I'm guessing from the 0:04:00.960 --> 0:04:03.960 name that these reusable items you're talking about were rags 0:04:04.040 --> 0:04:06.200 and for some reason bones. 0:04:06.440 --> 0:04:09.400 Yeah, So these guys would scour the city for like 0:04:09.560 --> 0:04:13.440 old rags, bones, bits of metal, any other discarded items 0:04:13.480 --> 0:04:15.760 that could be scavenged and of course recycled. 0:04:16.080 --> 0:04:17.800 I love how you just say this like it's no 0:04:17.880 --> 0:04:20.239 big deal. I still need to know it. Actually, maybe 0:04:20.240 --> 0:04:23.880 I don't why and how people were reusing bones and 0:04:24.240 --> 0:04:26.440 why were so many random bones just all over the 0:04:26.440 --> 0:04:27.320 streets of London. 0:04:28.080 --> 0:04:30.960 Well, I don't have specifics on where the bones were 0:04:30.960 --> 0:04:33.880 actually coming from, but I imagine there were mostly animal bones 0:04:33.960 --> 0:04:36.279 left over from you know, meals that've been tossed in 0:04:36.320 --> 0:04:39.080 the garbage. But you know, as for how the bones 0:04:39.080 --> 0:04:40.839 were recycled, a lot of them were used to make 0:04:40.920 --> 0:04:44.000 geladin for processed foods or glue, kind of the way 0:04:44.000 --> 0:04:46.800 we still do today. And also I've forgotten this, but 0:04:46.920 --> 0:04:49.239 prior to the rise of plastics in the twentieth century, 0:04:49.520 --> 0:04:52.279 many of the buttons for clothing were made from polished bones, 0:04:52.320 --> 0:04:53.760 so that was another use as well. 0:04:54.839 --> 0:04:57.960 All right, So what exactly happened to these pioneers of recycling. 0:04:58.120 --> 0:05:00.200 Was it, you know, plastics that kind of kill the 0:05:00.200 --> 0:05:01.200 bone market? I guess. 0:05:01.600 --> 0:05:04.200 Yeah. Plastic and a few other advancements sort of put 0:05:04.240 --> 0:05:06.880 an end to those kinds of local level recycling schemes 0:05:06.920 --> 0:05:10.240 for a while. After the Industrial Revolution, fewer people were 0:05:10.279 --> 0:05:12.920 making their own goods, so there was just less need 0:05:12.960 --> 0:05:15.400 for reusable materials. Like the ones rag and bone men 0:05:15.440 --> 0:05:18.760 were collecting, and instead all that stuff kind of became 0:05:18.880 --> 0:05:23.160 garden variety garbage. But I should mention that that entrepreneurial 0:05:23.200 --> 0:05:27.279 spirit still lives on today in today's scrap recyclers. So, 0:05:27.320 --> 0:05:31.359 according to the Institute of Scrap Recycling Industries, scrappers processed 0:05:31.360 --> 0:05:33.760 more than one hundred and thirty million tons of material 0:05:33.800 --> 0:05:37.279 in twenty thirteen, and all that helped us save energy, 0:05:37.440 --> 0:05:41.760 reduce screenhouse gas emissions, It helped preserve natural resources and 0:05:41.880 --> 0:05:44.280 actually limited the amount of material that would otherwise go 0:05:44.360 --> 0:05:45.120 to landfills. 0:05:45.240 --> 0:05:48.320 Well, I know, the scrap industry is nothing like Sanford 0:05:48.320 --> 0:05:50.440 and Sun these days, and I mean it has its 0:05:50.440 --> 0:05:53.000 own institute now apparently, which I wasn't aware of. But 0:05:53.400 --> 0:05:55.880 I still can't help thinking of that show whenever somebody 0:05:55.960 --> 0:05:59.360 mentions scrap dealers, which is more often than you think, actually, 0:05:59.440 --> 0:06:01.760 But you look at the numbers that you mentioned, and 0:06:01.800 --> 0:06:04.960 it really highlights just how much of an impact industrialization 0:06:05.080 --> 0:06:07.560 has had on the amount of trash that we produce. 0:06:08.040 --> 0:06:10.120 So I was flipping through this book by Tom Zaki 0:06:10.279 --> 0:06:13.720 called out Smart Waste, the Modern Idea of garbage and 0:06:13.760 --> 0:06:16.320 how to think our way out of it, and according 0:06:16.320 --> 0:06:18.760 to his research, the amount of waste that humans produce 0:06:18.800 --> 0:06:21.800 has gone up by more than ten thousand percent over 0:06:21.839 --> 0:06:24.520 the past century. That's ten thousand percent. 0:06:24.960 --> 0:06:27.839 That's insane. But you know, if there is a silver 0:06:27.920 --> 0:06:30.400 lining to that insanely large cloud of trash, it's that 0:06:30.480 --> 0:06:32.800 the world's recycling rate has also risen by leaps and 0:06:32.839 --> 0:06:36.000 bounds over that same period. So, for instance, by the 0:06:36.000 --> 0:06:40.239 EPA's last count Americans now recycle nearly thirty five percent 0:06:40.279 --> 0:06:42.719 of the trash we produce, which is up from just 0:06:42.800 --> 0:06:46.120 six point two percent in the nineteen sixties. And you 0:06:46.120 --> 0:06:49.840 know a few other countries like Taiwan, Austria, Germany, they 0:06:49.880 --> 0:06:53.080 now boast recycling rates as high as sixty three percent. 0:06:53.800 --> 0:06:56.360 Well, that is a promising uptick, but I still can't 0:06:56.400 --> 0:06:58.920 help but feel a little disappointed with our current numbers. 0:06:58.920 --> 0:07:01.520 I mean, not even a full thirty five percent of 0:07:01.520 --> 0:07:05.320 our trash gets recycled. Americans produce about two hundred and 0:07:05.320 --> 0:07:09.400 fifty million tons of trash every single year, so recycling 0:07:09.480 --> 0:07:11.440 just a third of that means we're still sending close 0:07:11.440 --> 0:07:14.560 to one hundred and seventy million tons of waste, you know, 0:07:14.640 --> 0:07:18.200 off to landfills and incinerators every single year. I mean, 0:07:18.240 --> 0:07:19.840 there's got to be a better way to get our 0:07:19.920 --> 0:07:20.440 numbers up. 0:07:20.680 --> 0:07:22.840 Well, there are definitely a few things we could improve on, 0:07:22.920 --> 0:07:24.400 and we should talk about them in a bit, But 0:07:24.640 --> 0:07:26.640 first I want to throw out another silver lining that 0:07:26.640 --> 0:07:27.560 we shouldn't overlook. 0:07:28.040 --> 0:07:30.240 They're always looking on the positive side. Then, all right, 0:07:30.240 --> 0:07:33.440 so what's this upside to a thirty four percent recycling rate. 0:07:33.800 --> 0:07:36.960 Well, even at that current rate, our recycling efforts, coupled 0:07:37.000 --> 0:07:40.920 with composting, prevent the release of a lot of carbon dioxide, 0:07:41.000 --> 0:07:44.560 so about one hundred and eighty million metric tons of 0:07:44.560 --> 0:07:47.960 it in twenty thirteen alone, And according to the EPA, 0:07:48.440 --> 0:07:51.720 that's comparable to taking more than thirty nine million cars 0:07:51.760 --> 0:07:55.320 off the road for a whole year. So yeah, so 0:07:55.600 --> 0:07:57.440 even though we have like a long way to go, 0:07:57.680 --> 0:07:59.160 we're really making some headway. 0:07:59.360 --> 0:08:01.600 Well I'm glad you mention that, because it is important 0:08:01.600 --> 0:08:04.200 to keep progress in perspective, and in fact, that might 0:08:04.240 --> 0:08:06.520 be one way we can improve our recycling game here 0:08:06.560 --> 0:08:07.160 in the States. 0:08:07.240 --> 0:08:07.720 How's that? 0:08:08.400 --> 0:08:10.800 Actually? I saw this survey conducted by IPSOS back in 0:08:10.840 --> 0:08:14.400 twenty eleven that found that only half of American adults 0:08:14.440 --> 0:08:17.640 recycled daily. About a third of the respondent said that 0:08:17.640 --> 0:08:21.040 they recycle less frequently than that, and about thirteen percent 0:08:21.120 --> 0:08:24.800 admitted that they never recycle at all. And some researchers 0:08:24.800 --> 0:08:27.560 have since suggested that there's a psychological reason for our 0:08:27.600 --> 0:08:30.480 spotty track records with recycling. I mean, namely, we have 0:08:30.560 --> 0:08:34.360 trouble connecting our daily habits with their consequences, and so 0:08:34.400 --> 0:08:36.000 if you think about it, it actually kind of makes 0:08:36.000 --> 0:08:38.600 a lot of sense. You know, the reward for recycling 0:08:38.679 --> 0:08:42.560 isn't immediate, and then the fallout from recycling also doesn't 0:08:42.600 --> 0:08:45.640 feel real either, so we don't see the benefits or 0:08:45.640 --> 0:08:47.920 the harms that we're contributing to. So there's less of 0:08:47.920 --> 0:08:50.800 an appeal to make recycling a daily behavior, and it 0:08:50.920 --> 0:08:53.240 just is kind of all lessened in our minds because 0:08:53.280 --> 0:08:53.600 of this. 0:08:54.360 --> 0:08:56.680 That's pretty interesting and it actually makes me think of 0:08:56.679 --> 0:08:59.680 this study I read about in Scientific American. That's just 0:08:59.760 --> 0:09:02.680 an other psychological hang up that people have with recycling. 0:09:02.800 --> 0:09:05.000 So I don't know if you've heard this before, but 0:09:05.280 --> 0:09:07.040 there have been a number of studies that show that 0:09:07.120 --> 0:09:11.160 women typically have greener habits and are more environmentally minded 0:09:11.200 --> 0:09:14.800 than men. So, for instance, women recycle more, they litteralless, 0:09:14.840 --> 0:09:18.120 then they leave a smaller carbon footprint than their average 0:09:18.120 --> 0:09:19.120 male counterparts. 0:09:19.880 --> 0:09:21.440 So do we know why this might be? 0:09:22.400 --> 0:09:26.000 Well, Weirdly, the research report on by Scientific Americans suggests 0:09:26.040 --> 0:09:30.120 that men might shun this eco friendly behavior like recycling, 0:09:30.520 --> 0:09:32.760 because it makes them feel less macho. 0:09:33.800 --> 0:09:34.199 Really. 0:09:34.640 --> 0:09:37.480 Yeah, So two of the researchers describe the findings of 0:09:37.520 --> 0:09:40.600 their study this way. So quote, we showed that there 0:09:40.679 --> 0:09:44.680 is a psychological link between eco friendliness and perceptions of femininity. 0:09:45.160 --> 0:09:48.440 And due to this green feminine stereotype, both men and 0:09:48.480 --> 0:09:52.440 women judged eco friendly products, behaviors, and consumers as more 0:09:52.480 --> 0:09:54.679 feminine than their non green counterparts. 0:09:55.240 --> 0:09:57.880 That is such a strange thing. But actually, from what 0:09:57.920 --> 0:10:00.240 you're saying, so even women thought going green was a 0:10:00.240 --> 0:10:00.839 feminine thing. 0:10:00.920 --> 0:10:03.360 Yeah, it's weird, right. So one of the experiments had 0:10:03.400 --> 0:10:05.760 the participants recall a time when they did something good 0:10:05.760 --> 0:10:08.160 for the environment, and both the men and the women 0:10:08.200 --> 0:10:10.880 said they perceived themselves to be more feminine in those 0:10:10.920 --> 0:10:14.199 instances that they shared. Maybe it's just because they were 0:10:14.240 --> 0:10:17.120 like caring nicely for mother Earth. I'm not sure what 0:10:17.120 --> 0:10:17.440 it was. 0:10:18.040 --> 0:10:20.760 Wow, So is there any way to counter this thinking 0:10:20.840 --> 0:10:23.000 so that guys will be more inclined to you know, 0:10:23.080 --> 0:10:25.680 pitch in with recycling or these other green efforts. 0:10:26.400 --> 0:10:29.400 Yeah, so, since this is like a psychological hurdle, the 0:10:29.440 --> 0:10:31.319 best way to solve is for men to grow more 0:10:31.360 --> 0:10:36.040 secure with their own masculinity. That's good advice, and I 0:10:36.040 --> 0:10:39.360 guess marketing can help. Like, for instance, the researchers and 0:10:39.600 --> 0:10:43.080 Scientific American described this experiment where men were found to 0:10:43.120 --> 0:10:46.280 be more likely to donate to a green nonprofit if 0:10:46.280 --> 0:10:49.440 it had a masculine logo, so like if it had 0:10:49.559 --> 0:10:53.200 black and dark blue colors and like featured a howling wolf, 0:10:53.360 --> 0:10:56.840 and also if the name was something more masculine like 0:10:56.920 --> 0:11:01.880 Wilderness Rangers. Yeah, I had a bold fond apparently, so 0:11:02.840 --> 0:11:05.520 and men contributed more to that than something with like 0:11:05.520 --> 0:11:08.439 a traditional logo with light and green tan colors, if 0:11:08.440 --> 0:11:11.080 it featured a tree, if it had like a frilly 0:11:11.160 --> 0:11:13.440 font and a name like Friends with Nature. 0:11:13.920 --> 0:11:18.600 So it's crazy if it makes me wish that mancho 0:11:18.679 --> 0:11:21.199 man Randy Savage was still around so that we could. 0:11:21.000 --> 0:11:25.680 Have Wilderness Rangers exactly. We need a bad boy of recycling. 0:11:25.720 --> 0:11:27.040 The show is our way. 0:11:27.400 --> 0:11:30.079 So it's clearly still all in our heads though. 0:11:30.320 --> 0:11:33.319 Yeah, so our psyches are our worst natural enemies when 0:11:33.320 --> 0:11:35.760 it comes to recycling. Like, according to a survey from 0:11:35.800 --> 0:11:39.439 the National Waste and Recycling Association, one in five Americans 0:11:39.440 --> 0:11:41.880 say that they'll put something in a recycling bin even 0:11:41.960 --> 0:11:45.320 if they aren't totally certain that it's recyclable. And this 0:11:45.440 --> 0:11:49.439 is a phenomenon that's called wishful recycling, where people in doubt, 0:11:49.440 --> 0:11:51.240 we'll just go for it and the off chance that 0:11:51.360 --> 0:11:54.080 whatever they want to get rid of can hopefully be recycled. 0:11:54.520 --> 0:11:56.360 And of course a lot of the time we're completely 0:11:56.400 --> 0:11:57.800 wrong with those kinds of judgments. 0:11:58.320 --> 0:12:00.480 Yeah, and if I'm being honest, I mean I have 0:12:00.559 --> 0:12:02.600 definitely been guilty of that as well. You've got a 0:12:02.640 --> 0:12:05.240 product and you're just again you're hoping that it can 0:12:05.280 --> 0:12:07.240 be recycled, so you just go ahead and toss it 0:12:07.280 --> 0:12:09.640 in there. But you know, it does lead to all 0:12:09.640 --> 0:12:12.040 these kinds of headaches for people who have to sort 0:12:12.120 --> 0:12:15.280 and then process this random assortment of stuff that people 0:12:15.320 --> 0:12:17.200 are just chucking in the recycling bins. 0:12:17.760 --> 0:12:20.080 Yeah. So some years ago, Lizzie and I house sat 0:12:20.120 --> 0:12:22.320 for some friends in Portland and they gave us like 0:12:22.400 --> 0:12:26.000 this twenty minute tour of just their recycling system and 0:12:26.040 --> 0:12:29.240 the fifteen bins they had for various types of things. 0:12:29.480 --> 0:12:31.880 It was dizzying. I know, it really felt like a 0:12:31.880 --> 0:12:35.720 Portland episode. But and I mean that's coming from Delaware, 0:12:35.760 --> 0:12:38.320 where we had recycling really early. But you had to 0:12:38.360 --> 0:12:40.839 make such an effort to do it, Like I actually 0:12:40.920 --> 0:12:43.560 remember on weekends, like I'd collect stuff around the house 0:12:43.600 --> 0:12:46.319 with my dad, all the newspapers and cardboard, and turned 0:12:46.320 --> 0:12:48.679 his hatchback and we'd drive off to recycling center a 0:12:48.720 --> 0:12:51.600 few miles away. And that's because the city didn't pick 0:12:51.640 --> 0:12:54.200 it up yet. But I'm a little off topic. I 0:12:54.240 --> 0:12:56.120 definitely want to talk about the problems that come from 0:12:56.200 --> 0:12:58.679 the so called single stream approach to recycling that we 0:12:58.760 --> 0:13:01.040 go by in the US. But before we do that, 0:13:01.160 --> 0:13:02.240 let's take a quick break. 0:13:15.679 --> 0:13:17.719 You're listening to Part Time Genius, and we're breaking down 0:13:17.760 --> 0:13:20.760 the pros and cons of recycling. I mean, a minute 0:13:20.760 --> 0:13:23.839 ago you mentioned single stream recycling, which of course was 0:13:23.880 --> 0:13:27.000 intended to make recycling more approachable for the average citizen, 0:13:27.120 --> 0:13:29.560 but really in practice the system has proven to be 0:13:29.559 --> 0:13:32.120 both bad for the environment and bad for business. 0:13:32.920 --> 0:13:35.640 Yeah. So basically, the idea behind single stream was to 0:13:35.679 --> 0:13:38.800 put all of your different recyclables, whether that's glass or 0:13:38.800 --> 0:13:42.319 paper or plastic all into one bin. And this was 0:13:42.360 --> 0:13:44.480 an idea that first cropped up in California back in 0:13:44.559 --> 0:13:47.400 nineteen ninety five and was later rolled out nationwide as 0:13:47.600 --> 0:13:50.760 almost the best, most user friendly shot for getting people 0:13:50.760 --> 0:13:54.559 on board with recycling. And really though this approach just 0:13:54.640 --> 0:13:56.400 kind of kicked the can a little further down the 0:13:56.480 --> 0:13:59.360 road because you know, all those materials still need to 0:13:59.400 --> 0:14:02.960 be sort of so instead of placing that added responsibility 0:14:03.000 --> 0:14:05.920 on individuals, we just invested in processing plants to do 0:14:05.960 --> 0:14:07.000 all that sorting for us. 0:14:07.800 --> 0:14:09.920 Right. And you know, in the opposite end of the spectrum, 0:14:09.920 --> 0:14:12.480 you have somewhere like Germany and it adopted this system 0:14:12.480 --> 0:14:15.760 in the early nineties that actually required households to use 0:14:15.800 --> 0:14:19.360 a total of five different bins. They're all color coded 0:14:19.400 --> 0:14:21.920 and they help indicate where you should dispose of different 0:14:22.000 --> 0:14:24.520 kinds of waste and a little bit like the Portland 0:14:24.520 --> 0:14:28.000 example you gave earlier. And you know, while it sounds complicated, 0:14:28.040 --> 0:14:30.480 that approach has led to a recycling rate that's nearly 0:14:30.560 --> 0:14:32.240 double what we see here in the States. 0:14:32.600 --> 0:14:34.840 Yeah, I mean that's incredible, But the drawbacks of this 0:14:34.960 --> 0:14:38.360 single like single stream system go far beyond making us 0:14:38.400 --> 0:14:40.720 look bad in front of the Germans. So one of 0:14:40.720 --> 0:14:44.320 the biggest issues the system poses is cross contamination. So 0:14:44.320 --> 0:14:46.280 that's when like little pieces of plastic get mixed in 0:14:46.320 --> 0:14:48.960 with paper, or worse, when they're like food particles from 0:14:49.000 --> 0:14:51.840 containers that weren't cleaned well enough. And all of this 0:14:51.960 --> 0:14:55.000 slows down the sorting process, it comes up the machines. 0:14:55.280 --> 0:14:58.120 It leads to this inordinate amount of would be recyclables 0:14:58.160 --> 0:15:01.160 being thrown out instead of being recycled. Then, according to 0:15:01.200 --> 0:15:04.040 City Lab, as much as twenty five percent of the 0:15:04.040 --> 0:15:07.000 recyclable waste that passes through the single stream system winds 0:15:07.080 --> 0:15:10.080 up in landfill, and if you ask Tom Zakey, that 0:15:10.160 --> 0:15:13.440 number is closer to fifty percent. Either way. It really 0:15:13.440 --> 0:15:15.880 calls it a question whether our already not soo stellar 0:15:16.000 --> 0:15:19.160 thirty four percent national recycling rate is even accurate. 0:15:19.560 --> 0:15:22.400 There's a good chance it's way lower. Yeah, you know, 0:15:22.400 --> 0:15:24.400 And I was reading that an even bigger problem for 0:15:24.520 --> 0:15:28.880 materials recovery facilities or mirphs. I guess they're called MRF 0:15:29.000 --> 0:15:30.800 so that that's what they call them in the industry, 0:15:30.880 --> 0:15:33.920 That this all these unrecyclables that end up in the 0:15:33.960 --> 0:15:37.000 plants thanks to the wishful recycling that you were talking 0:15:37.000 --> 0:15:40.480 about earlier. According to Susan Robinson, she's the director of 0:15:40.480 --> 0:15:43.560 public affairs for Waste Management, but we also get a 0:15:43.600 --> 0:15:47.440 surprising number of garden hoses, Christmas lights and shower curtain. 0:15:48.440 --> 0:15:50.560 And I can just imagine how much time is lost 0:15:50.600 --> 0:15:52.800 by like trying to shut down the equipmen and fish 0:15:52.840 --> 0:15:53.760 out all that junk. 0:15:54.520 --> 0:15:56.960 Yeah, and that loss and productivity has started to take 0:15:57.000 --> 0:16:00.760 its toll on recycling's profitability. I mean, all cross the country, 0:16:00.760 --> 0:16:04.800 recycling companies are reporting drastic decreases in profit and that's 0:16:04.840 --> 0:16:08.360 partly because of the higher processing costs associated with contamination 0:16:08.760 --> 0:16:12.320 and faulty user sorting practices. You know, for example, in 0:16:12.360 --> 0:16:15.760 the District of Columbia, they replaced those thirty two gallon 0:16:15.800 --> 0:16:18.680 bins with ones that were fifty percent larger. This was 0:16:18.720 --> 0:16:22.000 back in twenty fourteen, and so these larger binds lead 0:16:22.040 --> 0:16:25.080 to a higher rate of wishful recycling among the residents, 0:16:25.320 --> 0:16:27.920 so much so that all that non recyclable material that 0:16:28.000 --> 0:16:30.640 wound up in DC's mirphs, it drove up the city's 0:16:30.680 --> 0:16:34.360 processing costs and it cut their profits from recyclable sales 0:16:34.360 --> 0:16:37.320 by more than fifty percent back in twenty fifteen. 0:16:38.160 --> 0:16:40.760 Wow, So clearly there's room for improvement in this single 0:16:40.800 --> 0:16:44.040 stream system. And still, in the interest of balance, I 0:16:44.120 --> 0:16:45.400 do want to point out a few parts of the 0:16:45.440 --> 0:16:48.840 recycling industry that are still paying out despite our somewhat 0:16:48.880 --> 0:16:51.720 you know, flawed way of doing things. So one example 0:16:51.800 --> 0:16:54.840 is aluminum, which is actually the most recycled product in 0:16:54.880 --> 0:16:57.360 the world, with close to seventy percent of aluminum cans 0:16:57.400 --> 0:17:00.520 being recycled around the world. And there the reason for 0:17:00.560 --> 0:17:03.640 that huge turnover rate is that aluminum nets recycling companies 0:17:03.680 --> 0:17:07.080 the most money of any recyclable material out there. It's 0:17:07.119 --> 0:17:10.000 about fifteen hundred dollars per ton in the US as 0:17:10.040 --> 0:17:13.600 of twenty fifteen. And another area where business is booming 0:17:13.680 --> 0:17:17.399 is corrugated cardboard, and that's thanks to online shopping. You know, 0:17:17.440 --> 0:17:20.560 the recycling stream is just flush with cardboard boxes, which 0:17:20.920 --> 0:17:22.760 you know, can be valuable so long as they aren't 0:17:22.760 --> 0:17:26.320 contaminated by pizza grease or whatever other organic bits have 0:17:26.359 --> 0:17:28.239 mistakenly made their way into the recycling bin. 0:17:28.880 --> 0:17:30.439 Yeah, and I do want to be careful not to 0:17:30.440 --> 0:17:32.720 harp too much on the business side of things, because 0:17:32.720 --> 0:17:36.320 there's still other areas where recycling definitely benefits the economy, 0:17:36.760 --> 0:17:39.800 like reducing the use and costs of landfills and reducing 0:17:39.800 --> 0:17:43.320 the energy expense of harvesting more natural resources for all 0:17:43.320 --> 0:17:44.960 the new products that we need to create. 0:17:45.800 --> 0:17:48.200 Well, and another reason not to stress too much about 0:17:48.200 --> 0:17:50.800 the money saving benefits of environmentalism is that it can 0:17:50.840 --> 0:17:53.119 actually make people less likely to recycle. 0:17:54.080 --> 0:17:55.679 Wait what, so, how does that work? 0:17:56.320 --> 0:17:58.720 So this comes from a team of researchers at Cardiff 0:17:58.800 --> 0:18:01.959 University in the UK, and they found that appealing to 0:18:02.000 --> 0:18:05.080 somebody's self interest actually makes them less likely to behave 0:18:05.119 --> 0:18:08.360 in a helpful manner. So, in this experiment, one group 0:18:08.400 --> 0:18:11.240 of students was told about the environmental benefits of carpooling. 0:18:11.560 --> 0:18:14.280 Another group was told about the potential to save money 0:18:14.320 --> 0:18:17.359 by carpooling, and things get a little devious from there. 0:18:17.840 --> 0:18:20.120 And here's how Wired explained the next part of the experiment. 0:18:20.640 --> 0:18:24.680 So the students then filled out paper questionnaires about unrelated topics, 0:18:24.920 --> 0:18:27.480 which they were told to dispose of at the session's end. 0:18:28.000 --> 0:18:31.040 Unbeknownst to them, this was the experiment's real purpose and 0:18:31.080 --> 0:18:34.760 a microcosm of environmental tensions. Would they use a recycling 0:18:34.800 --> 0:18:39.120 basket inconveniently located under another table or a general waste 0:18:39.160 --> 0:18:43.560 bin at arm's length. Among those students primed as psychologists say, 0:18:43.600 --> 0:18:47.520 with the message of carpooling self transcending benefits, eighty nine 0:18:47.560 --> 0:18:51.040 percent recycled. Of the group that learned about the cost saving, 0:18:51.359 --> 0:18:52.680 just fifty percent recycled. 0:18:53.520 --> 0:18:56.280 Wow, so the environmental impact turned out to be a 0:18:56.320 --> 0:18:59.720 bigger draw than saving their own cash, which I guess 0:18:59.720 --> 0:19:01.040 that's actually a little bit heartening. 0:19:01.880 --> 0:19:04.840 Yeah, And the study also highlights the biggest risk of 0:19:04.920 --> 0:19:07.320 pushing recycling mainly as a way to save time or 0:19:07.320 --> 0:19:09.800 make money instead of as a way to preserve the 0:19:09.840 --> 0:19:13.240 beauty of the natural world, like people might forget that 0:19:13.400 --> 0:19:16.080 nature is in its own right reason enough to care 0:19:16.119 --> 0:19:17.679 about conservation efforts. 0:19:18.240 --> 0:19:19.800 That's a really good point, you know. One of my 0:19:19.880 --> 0:19:23.679 favorite examples of just how effective that naturalist mentality can 0:19:23.720 --> 0:19:27.280 be is this tiny town. It's in southwestern Japan and 0:19:27.320 --> 0:19:31.120 it's called Kamakatsu. So there's about seventeen hundred people who 0:19:31.200 --> 0:19:34.080 live there, and since two thousand and three, the town 0:19:34.200 --> 0:19:36.679 residents have been engaged in this long running quest that 0:19:36.720 --> 0:19:40.120 becomes zero waste by twenty twenty. And so in order 0:19:40.160 --> 0:19:43.240