WEBVTT - John Micklethwait on Erdogan Interview (Audio)

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<v Speaker 1>Taking stock of a Turkey and the Turkish president making

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<v Speaker 1>comments today saying that it doesn't really care what credit

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<v Speaker 1>rating agencies due to the rating of his country. Here

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<v Speaker 1>to tell us more, and also joining me in studio

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<v Speaker 1>is Matt Miller, my co host for the next hour.

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<v Speaker 1>So Matt, great to have you here. Um. John, Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>and I'm glad you came in because John Micklethwaite is here.

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<v Speaker 1>He is Bloomberg News editor in chief. And John, thank you.

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<v Speaker 1>I know you've had a long week as many people

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<v Speaker 1>have traveled almost as much as Matt Miller, almost as

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<v Speaker 1>much as I was gonna say, not as fast on

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<v Speaker 1>on two wheels. Um, tell us about your interview with

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<v Speaker 1>the President of Turkey. First of all, what had you

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<v Speaker 1>met him previously? I'd met him once for about five

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<v Speaker 1>minutes at a conference. Um. He very relaxed. Um, as

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<v Speaker 1>you're pointing out, just what weekend want to see. It

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<v Speaker 1>made this habit of interviewing what might be described as

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<v Speaker 1>democratic strongman in sense of hum. Seeing Trump briefly the

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<v Speaker 1>other day and now and now I'm Dan. I think Dan.

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<v Speaker 1>The interesting things about him is, you know, he has

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<v Speaker 1>ruled Turkey for a long time. He had in political terms,

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<v Speaker 1>especially given that democratic strongman background. He had a near

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<v Speaker 1>death experience in the summer with the coup, but he

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<v Speaker 1>does have real issues to do with the economy. And

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<v Speaker 1>you pointed out, Um, you know he's said to the

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<v Speaker 1>credit rating agencies. Look, I really don't care what you say.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, we say it doesn't doesn't tend to be

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<v Speaker 1>always a good idea. Well, we say, what doesn't kill

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<v Speaker 1>you makes you stronger. Is it definitely the case with

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<v Speaker 1>er do Wan. I mean, did that coup you say

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<v Speaker 1>it's a near death experience, but make him a stronger leader. Um,

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<v Speaker 1>it's made him a stronger leader to the extent that

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<v Speaker 1>he's managed to round up about a hundred thousand people

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<v Speaker 1>um and either get rid of push him out of

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<v Speaker 1>jobs or put some in jail. Again. I pushed him

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<v Speaker 1>on this. He is not entirely good when it comes

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<v Speaker 1>to journalists. In particular, Turkey jails more journalists than anywhere

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<v Speaker 1>else around the country, around the world, and he is that.

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<v Speaker 1>That's to that extent, I think Dawin, yes, he is

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<v Speaker 1>back in control. But in my experience, when you have

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<v Speaker 1>that sort of leader, if there is a sort of

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<v Speaker 1>coup attempt, that tends to make them more worried. And

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<v Speaker 1>it's interesting that one of his one of his responses

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<v Speaker 1>has been to try and get more power. I was

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<v Speaker 1>going to say he hadn't got for Toolagulan. No, who's

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<v Speaker 1>sitting as I pointed out to him, and sitting in

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<v Speaker 1>Pennsylvania in a place where if he flew down to

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<v Speaker 1>Washington and he'd probably fly over the top, and he's

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<v Speaker 1>hoping very much that they will manage to extradite him.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't think anyone in America thinks that is likely.

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<v Speaker 1>The Turkish case is the Turkish case which we should

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<v Speaker 1>treat seriously, is that they often give terrorists to America.

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<v Speaker 1>They see Gulan as being part of a similar level,

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<v Speaker 1>and they are demanding his extradition. The Americans are saying

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<v Speaker 1>that has to go through the courts. They're saying, no,

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<v Speaker 1>this is to do with a crime that happened in Turkey,

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<v Speaker 1>Hi the coupe, and they are trying to push it. Nobody,

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<v Speaker 1>as far as I can work out, seems I think

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<v Speaker 1>it is likely to get through. And so you're going

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<v Speaker 1>to end up an ever more exasperated who already has

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<v Speaker 1>issues with America with lots of things including America at

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<v Speaker 1>the moment, arming Curdist curbs, Kurdish um separatists in various places.

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<v Speaker 1>I just want to play a clip of the interview

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<v Speaker 1>and get your reaction. You're gonna all hear this, go

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<v Speaker 1>ahead and were your strategic partner. We're together in Native

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<v Speaker 1>give him to us and let us try him. That's

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<v Speaker 1>to us needed what they said. The court is going

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<v Speaker 1>to the I'm sorry, but we can't wait for these

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<v Speaker 1>kind of decisions from these kinds of courts because this

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<v Speaker 1>crime wasn't committed in the US. It was committed in Turkey,

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<v Speaker 1>So let us make the decision as the president of Turkey.

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<v Speaker 1>Speaking with John Michele Twaite, Bloomberg editor in chief earlier today.

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<v Speaker 1>So John, when he says that what do you hear

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<v Speaker 1>or feel? Is the next thing you hear a degree

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<v Speaker 1>of anger? I think he didn't answer the question specifically,

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<v Speaker 1>which I asked next, which what is your plan be?

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<v Speaker 1>If everyone is correct and you're unlikely to get this

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<v Speaker 1>guy out, then what are you gonna do next? And

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<v Speaker 1>he merely he said in the government's always tend to

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<v Speaker 1>have a something up the sleeve which they can use later.

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<v Speaker 1>But I suspect the main thing he will do is

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<v Speaker 1>sulk and be kind of cross about it. And there

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<v Speaker 1>is a kind of problem there. And you have to

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<v Speaker 1>remember that Turkey, notwithstanding some of the things which happened,

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<v Speaker 1>there is still part of NATO. It is still an

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<v Speaker 1>ally of America. But at this precise moment, if you

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<v Speaker 1>look over the past few years, it's been one which

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<v Speaker 1>has been going in different directions. So what's the problem.

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<v Speaker 1>Why why don't we give him for Toola goal? And

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<v Speaker 1>if for Toola goal and is connected to this cool

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<v Speaker 1>and he's an ally of ours and he gives us

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<v Speaker 1>criminals that we demand extradition for. Well that's there are

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<v Speaker 1>the similarities be to Matt Miller and president and get ever,

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<v Speaker 1>most can only be a matter of time. Now you

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<v Speaker 1>put the case much more eloquently than I did. With

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<v Speaker 1>the response I think of the American side is well,

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<v Speaker 1>we have to go through due process on this. Where

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<v Speaker 1>is the evidence that you've said this? You have repeatedly

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<v Speaker 1>claimed this man is trying to do things. Um, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>we want to see evidence that he actually is involved.

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<v Speaker 1>And the word good is very inting. Gooden is a

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<v Speaker 1>name they charge around everywhere. I asked him doing also

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<v Speaker 1>about the Central Bank, where we have the same issue,

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<v Speaker 1>where at least some people, I think himself is generally

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<v Speaker 1>avoided saying this directly, but some of the people close

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<v Speaker 1>to him have complained about the previous management of the

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<v Speaker 1>central Bank and said it was full of goodness. This

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<v Speaker 1>time I doant to talk about the need to clean

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<v Speaker 1>out any goodness who are still there. But that was

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<v Speaker 1>another place. It's a very kind of paranoid place when

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<v Speaker 1>it comes to politics. Perky. Do you feel that when

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<v Speaker 1>you're when you're in his presence, No, he was strangely relaxed.

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<v Speaker 1>I wonder he's he's um. There is less sort of

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<v Speaker 1>an element of fear around him. He he has one

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<v Speaker 1>The strange thing about doing, at least in to this extent,

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<v Speaker 1>is that, yes, there are lots of things which are

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<v Speaker 1>reprehensible about him, such as being tough on John is

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<v Speaker 1>such a thing, a lot of the treatment of people

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<v Speaker 1>who seem to oppose him, claiming that anyone who insults

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<v Speaker 1>him has to get to jail, all that sort of stuff,

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<v Speaker 1>and yet he has won elections a series of them.

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<v Speaker 1>So one of the questions for him is, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>why on earth do you do this stuff? If you

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<v Speaker 1>are actually quite good winning the politics anyway. Thank you

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<v Speaker 1>very much for being with us. John Michael Thwaite is

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg News editor in chief, speaking about the Turkish president

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<v Speaker 1>Richard Ard One. I'm PIM Fox, my co host Matt Miller,

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<v Speaker 1>this is taking Stock, and this is Bloomberg