1 00:00:01,400 --> 00:00:06,840 Speaker 1: Welcome to Unaddiction the Podcast. My name is doctor Zinga Harrison. 2 00:00:07,400 --> 00:00:10,680 Speaker 1: I'm a board certified psychiatrist with a specialty in addiction 3 00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:15,520 Speaker 1: medicine and co founder and chief medical officer of Eleanor Health. 4 00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:19,360 Speaker 1: On this podcast, we explore the paths that can lead 5 00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:23,880 Speaker 1: to addiction and the infinite paths that can lead to recovery. 6 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:28,280 Speaker 1: Our guests are sharing their own experiences, the tools that 7 00:00:28,360 --> 00:00:31,280 Speaker 1: have helped them along the way, and the formulas that 8 00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:35,080 Speaker 1: allow them to thrive in recovery one day at a time. 9 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:40,640 Speaker 1: This week, Jason Williams joins us on the pod. Y'all, 10 00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:45,640 Speaker 1: this was such a fun conversation, and legitimately that's what 11 00:00:45,720 --> 00:00:49,760 Speaker 1: our conversation was about the importance of fun and adventure 12 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:53,800 Speaker 1: in recovery. It's the secret sauce to Jason's magic formula. 13 00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:55,880 Speaker 1: So let me tell you a little bit about him 14 00:00:55,880 --> 00:00:59,320 Speaker 1: before we jump in. Jason Williams was born and raised 15 00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:02,360 Speaker 1: on the street of New York's Lower East Side. He 16 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:05,600 Speaker 1: was the first round draft pick for the Philadelphia seventy 17 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:08,920 Speaker 1: six ers and later became an NBA All Star, only 18 00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:12,160 Speaker 1: to suffer a career ending injury during his initial season 19 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:15,120 Speaker 1: with the Nets. He parlayed his sense of humor and 20 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:18,200 Speaker 1: larger than life personality, both of which you'll hear on 21 00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:22,119 Speaker 1: today's episode, and quickly became an analyst for the NBA 22 00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:26,600 Speaker 1: on NBC. His life, however, came to a crashing halt 23 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:30,240 Speaker 1: when he was charged with manslaughter, for which he served 24 00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:34,640 Speaker 1: a twenty seven month prison term. Upon his release, Jason 25 00:01:34,720 --> 00:01:37,800 Speaker 1: vowed to turn his life around and entered a facility 26 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:42,240 Speaker 1: for treatment of addiction. A new treatment facility was born 27 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:46,440 Speaker 1: from his realization that the missing component from his treatment 28 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:51,320 Speaker 1: was what he calls quote adventure therapy. Jason is the 29 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:56,360 Speaker 1: founder of Rebound Holistic Care, where teammates actively collaborate with staff, coaches, 30 00:01:56,400 --> 00:02:00,160 Speaker 1: and consultants to maximize their own potential and that of 31 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:05,520 Speaker 1: fellow team members. And yes, this includes skydiving, eating out, 32 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:11,280 Speaker 1: and scuba diving. Jason, Welcome to the show. Welcome Jason Williams. 33 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:14,240 Speaker 1: I'm so excited, Jason. I don't know if you know. 34 00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:17,280 Speaker 1: I have a book that's coming out on addiction. Six 35 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:20,760 Speaker 1: Mind Changing Conversations that Could Save a Life's coming out 36 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:25,200 Speaker 1: January ninth, available for pre sale now, and we're doing 37 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:29,000 Speaker 1: this podcast to raise awareness of the book and the 38 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:32,120 Speaker 1: purpose of the book is to raise awareness of the 39 00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:35,160 Speaker 1: conversations we need to be having if we really want 40 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:39,200 Speaker 1: to turn around this addiction epidemic. So I am so 41 00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:43,679 Speaker 1: honored and grateful that you're coming on the podcast to 42 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:44,760 Speaker 1: share your story with us. 43 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:47,359 Speaker 2: So thank you well, thanks for having me, Doctor Harris. 44 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:51,400 Speaker 2: I love that Doctor Harrison is. I love that you're 45 00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:53,960 Speaker 2: going to be having this new book out. I can't 46 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:56,040 Speaker 2: wait to read it. I've been keeping up with you 47 00:02:56,120 --> 00:02:57,920 Speaker 2: since you said I was going to do this interview, 48 00:02:58,040 --> 00:03:01,040 Speaker 2: really so I've been doing some home work and some research. 49 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:04,640 Speaker 2: Let me tell you, it's people like yourself who help 50 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:07,840 Speaker 2: us fight this cutting disease, this disease that I have 51 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:11,000 Speaker 2: that tells me I don't have a disease. You know. 52 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:13,360 Speaker 2: I was reading up on you and you were talking 53 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:17,080 Speaker 2: about how relationships help us so much and getting to 54 00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:21,480 Speaker 2: the core reasons of why we have an addiction, and 55 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:26,200 Speaker 2: that you call all your patients and quotation marks members. 56 00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:28,400 Speaker 2: He had rebound at our center. 57 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:30,880 Speaker 1: That's right, community members. 58 00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:35,200 Speaker 2: The community members, and we call ourselves teammates because I'm 59 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:35,720 Speaker 2: in it with. 60 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:37,040 Speaker 1: Them, you know. 61 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:40,040 Speaker 2: And the number one thing that we try to do 62 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:43,080 Speaker 2: besides that's to say the number. The second highest thing 63 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:45,240 Speaker 2: we try to do is number one. We try to 64 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:47,320 Speaker 2: get them better, and that's to say, we try to 65 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:49,800 Speaker 2: get their family to understand about their addiction and the 66 00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:52,280 Speaker 2: Dienner thing if it's possible, because we get a lot 67 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:54,880 Speaker 2: of high profile people that come down and rebound is 68 00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:57,880 Speaker 2: to release the stigma. And I know you're big on that, 69 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:00,120 Speaker 2: or at least of the stigma, and I know that's 70 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:01,840 Speaker 2: going to be in your new book, doctor Garrison. 71 00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:05,600 Speaker 1: That's exactly right. So we made up this word for 72 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:10,120 Speaker 1: the title unaddiction, and it's really about unlearning what we 73 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:15,400 Speaker 1: think we know about addiction, undoing the stigma that is 74 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:19,960 Speaker 1: killing people, and uncovering the conversations that we need to have. 75 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:22,640 Speaker 1: And so you put your finger on the second point, 76 00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:25,320 Speaker 1: which is undoing the stigma. So I'm gonna ask you, Jason, 77 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:28,120 Speaker 1: I'm gonna ask everybody on this podcast at the end 78 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:30,280 Speaker 1: of the episode. So this is like cheat sheet for 79 00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 1: the final exam. Okay, okay, it's only got one question. 80 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:37,400 Speaker 1: It is if there is one thing you want people 81 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:41,120 Speaker 1: to unlearn, or one piece of stigma that you want 82 00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:45,240 Speaker 1: to undo, or one conversation that you want to uncover 83 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:48,479 Speaker 1: and teach people how to have What is it that's 84 00:04:48,520 --> 00:04:51,080 Speaker 1: for the end of the show. Okay, Okay, you got it, 85 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:56,400 Speaker 1: so coming in now tell me all about rebound and 86 00:04:56,440 --> 00:04:58,280 Speaker 1: this is how I want you to tell me about it. 87 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:06,680 Speaker 1: People really underestimate how much our childhood and upbringing impacts 88 00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:11,760 Speaker 1: our health as adults. And I'm talking specifically about adverse 89 00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:16,719 Speaker 1: childhood experiences aces Ace. There was this study done a 90 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:20,000 Speaker 1: long time ago, and there are ten questions and if 91 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:22,839 Speaker 1: you answer yes, you get one point and a score 92 00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:29,320 Speaker 1: four more really predicts an increased risk of depression, anxiety, addiction, 93 00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:33,240 Speaker 1: high blood pressure, diabetes, obesity, smoking, like all the chronic 94 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:36,599 Speaker 1: illnesses you name it. And so it's like your childhood 95 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:40,679 Speaker 1: really does matter. But there's an anecdote to that called 96 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:45,880 Speaker 1: the Pieces Positive Childhood Experiences. And one of the things 97 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:48,080 Speaker 1: we talk about in the book is as adults, we 98 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:51,479 Speaker 1: can't go back and change our childhood, but we can 99 00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:55,039 Speaker 1: change our adulthood. And so if you look at the 100 00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:58,840 Speaker 1: positive experiences, it's an ability to talk to your family 101 00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:04,480 Speaker 1: about your feelings. It's feeling supported, it's participating in community traditions. 102 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:08,480 Speaker 1: It's a sense of belonging. It's being supported by friends, 103 00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:13,000 Speaker 1: it's having two nonparent adults who genuinely care about you. 104 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:18,760 Speaker 1: That's about childhood. Rebound is doing this for people in adulthood. 105 00:06:18,839 --> 00:06:21,599 Speaker 1: That's right, And so can you talk to me about 106 00:06:21,640 --> 00:06:25,200 Speaker 1: what rebound is doing for people? Because a score of 107 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:29,479 Speaker 1: four out of seven on these pieces starts to erase 108 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:33,080 Speaker 1: those negative childhood experiences. So like, this is what rebound 109 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:35,080 Speaker 1: is doing for people, can you tell us about it? 110 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:39,640 Speaker 2: Yes, So we teach through outdoor adventure therapy. I'm pretty 111 00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:41,920 Speaker 2: sure we're the only place in the country that does 112 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 2: it like this. We're not talking about outdoor adventure therapy, 113 00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:48,440 Speaker 2: doctor Harrison, where you go maybe to the beach once 114 00:06:48,480 --> 00:06:52,279 Speaker 2: a week. We talk about seven days a week. We're 115 00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:57,160 Speaker 2: doing everything from skydiving, in dooing, outdoor flying airplanes. I flyplanes, 116 00:06:57,240 --> 00:07:00,000 Speaker 2: so with scuba diving you can get scuba divings. Certain 117 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:04,240 Speaker 2: we're parasailing, we're horseback riding, we're wave running, we're hydro 118 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:06,760 Speaker 2: boarding when you put on a pack and you're going 119 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:09,240 Speaker 2: above the ocean. We're doing all this stuff to take 120 00:07:09,279 --> 00:07:12,800 Speaker 2: you out your comfort zone. But also what you just 121 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:17,800 Speaker 2: said is bring back positive childhood memories and and you know, 122 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:20,640 Speaker 2: so one of the things we do when we do 123 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:24,280 Speaker 2: this is it takes you out your comfort zone because 124 00:07:24,320 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 2: you can be anybody when you're talking to a psychiatrist 125 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:29,400 Speaker 2: like yourself. When you come in, you sit on the couch. 126 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:31,880 Speaker 2: You only got an hour. But here, when we take 127 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:34,960 Speaker 2: you up thirteen thousand feet and I'm flying the plane 128 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 2: and I look over and says jump, we really get 129 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:40,080 Speaker 2: a chance to see what you're all about, right, because 130 00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:43,680 Speaker 2: we're with our psychiatrists, you know, and we're with our therapists, 131 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:45,480 Speaker 2: and we get to see a whole different side of you. 132 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:46,040 Speaker 1: Yeah. 133 00:07:46,400 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 2: But also it brings back your childhood memories of when 134 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:54,520 Speaker 2: you are having fun. It's okay to have fun, because 135 00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:56,680 Speaker 2: we want you to have fun when you get sober. 136 00:07:57,200 --> 00:07:59,320 Speaker 2: So we're just training you at the beginning. 137 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:01,880 Speaker 1: You need you need to have fun, that's right. 138 00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:05,880 Speaker 3: And it's much more fun because look, you know what's 139 00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:08,000 Speaker 3: training you to do is you know, you go on vacation. 140 00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:10,280 Speaker 3: What happens now, you go out, You go out in 141 00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:12,680 Speaker 3: the ocean for twenty minutes, thirty minutes. That first day 142 00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:14,200 Speaker 3: is so much fun. And then you go out at 143 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:16,120 Speaker 3: night and your party, and then the next day you 144 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:18,880 Speaker 3: sleep in and the next day there's too hot and 145 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:22,000 Speaker 3: then you don't even enjoy your vacation. Here we're teaching 146 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:27,360 Speaker 3: you how to live a healthy, holistic lifestyle and going 147 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 3: to bed at nine o'clock, which for me, nine o'clock 148 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:31,320 Speaker 3: is in New midnight. 149 00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:33,840 Speaker 1: I know, that's right. I love when I get to 150 00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:35,120 Speaker 1: go to bed at nine o'clock. 151 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:38,720 Speaker 2: That's a good night, right, And so it's cheating you 152 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:42,320 Speaker 2: and training you to make sure that you're being able 153 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:45,080 Speaker 2: to get up tomorrow and do it again. Also, you're 154 00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:46,920 Speaker 2: having so much fun that you don't want to be 155 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:49,800 Speaker 2: hungover in the morning. And some of the stuff that 156 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:52,360 Speaker 2: this does is that you know, we work, we get 157 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:54,400 Speaker 2: a chance that people come in and I like myself 158 00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:56,800 Speaker 2: of course the phobic, so one of the big things 159 00:08:56,840 --> 00:08:59,560 Speaker 2: when we take you down sixty feet in the ocean, 160 00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:03,760 Speaker 2: will get clausophobic and they have to learn to breathe, 161 00:09:03,920 --> 00:09:06,160 Speaker 2: you know. So this is we do all these kind 162 00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:09,200 Speaker 2: of activities probably nineteen different activities in thirty days that 163 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:11,760 Speaker 2: you have never done in your life that helps you. 164 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:14,160 Speaker 2: And we're not there to just to scare the the 165 00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:17,480 Speaker 2: Jesus out of you. We're there to really get to 166 00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:20,280 Speaker 2: see what the core of what's really bothering you now 167 00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:23,040 Speaker 2: we do traditional achievement. We go to the gym. Of course, 168 00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:26,560 Speaker 2: we go to AA. We have Bible study here with 169 00:09:26,679 --> 00:09:28,840 Speaker 2: a Hall of Fame running back who does a great 170 00:09:28,920 --> 00:09:32,520 Speaker 2: job for us every Wednesday. We're very faith based, but 171 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:35,880 Speaker 2: we meet you where you're at. Because we're a small program. 172 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:38,080 Speaker 2: We only take five people in every month. 173 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:41,720 Speaker 3: Okay, wow, in a basketball team, I can handle that, Yeah, 174 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:46,440 Speaker 3: because everybody has a different right, everybody has a different narrative. 175 00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:48,880 Speaker 2: Yeah. You know, so if you come in and you 176 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:52,560 Speaker 2: try to cookie cut or something, it's very difficult because 177 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:55,880 Speaker 2: there's such an epidemic to just deal with only five people. 178 00:09:55,920 --> 00:09:57,880 Speaker 2: We've been blessed to do that because there's so many 179 00:09:58,040 --> 00:10:00,280 Speaker 2: people in addiction. One hundred and twenty thousand peop people 180 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:04,720 Speaker 2: died last year, you know, So you know, the more 181 00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:06,920 Speaker 2: people that could come in and get help at any level, 182 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:09,360 Speaker 2: I'm happy for. We've just been blessed that we have 183 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:12,400 Speaker 2: a small group. And that is the way I've made 184 00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:15,000 Speaker 2: it because when I went to treatment, I was just 185 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:17,880 Speaker 2: going from class to class, and I once asked the 186 00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:19,640 Speaker 2: guy in there, say, hey, can I get a volleyball? 187 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:22,280 Speaker 2: And he gave me a volleyball, and then he gave 188 00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:24,160 Speaker 2: me a basketball and he gave me a softball, and 189 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:26,920 Speaker 2: it changed the culture of where we were, you know, 190 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:29,600 Speaker 2: it really did. People were like, wow, I'm having fun, 191 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:31,959 Speaker 2: because when you feel like you have done so much 192 00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:35,320 Speaker 2: damage in your life that you not allowed to smile 193 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:39,199 Speaker 2: anymore and look for more might past. I feel sometimes 194 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:42,280 Speaker 2: I shouldn't be having fun and I should be serving 195 00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:45,360 Speaker 2: my community at all times. But I'm just slowly but 196 00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:48,920 Speaker 2: learning putting myself back together. Rebound's been going for eight years, 197 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:51,240 Speaker 2: and every day I learned something I'm big on. No 198 00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:54,520 Speaker 2: stethoscope really gets you better. It really does get you better. 199 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:59,520 Speaker 2: Is what you guys do at your place is the relationship. 200 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:03,839 Speaker 2: It's the empathy, it's the accountability, and it's the structure. 201 00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:06,400 Speaker 2: You know. We keep you out all day long. You 202 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:08,600 Speaker 2: leave the pro una, in the house, the ranch, we're 203 00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:11,640 Speaker 2: on the ranch, six acre ranch. Once you leave the ranch, 204 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:14,360 Speaker 2: you're gone all day. You're on the beach, you're in 205 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:17,440 Speaker 2: the water, you're at the gym. And when you get back, 206 00:11:17,559 --> 00:11:20,679 Speaker 2: what that does kill. For Number one is that your 207 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:24,400 Speaker 2: sleep deprivation. Because most people say I can't sleep, you know, 208 00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:26,559 Speaker 2: and why you can't sleep, it's because you're in your 209 00:11:26,559 --> 00:11:29,240 Speaker 2: own head. You're in your own head. And that's the 210 00:11:29,240 --> 00:11:31,720 Speaker 2: biggest jail that I've ever been in, is the one 211 00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:34,600 Speaker 2: that's in my head. So if we get you out 212 00:11:34,679 --> 00:11:37,319 Speaker 2: all the day long and we're deflecting and we're doing this, 213 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:40,200 Speaker 2: and the other thing is doctor, is that we eat 214 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:42,920 Speaker 2: all our meals out so we don't put you in 215 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:44,920 Speaker 2: a bubble where you're going to be in a bubble 216 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:47,040 Speaker 2: and then thirty days later we're going to cut you loose. 217 00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:49,120 Speaker 2: And then you go to the airport and you see 218 00:11:49,559 --> 00:11:50,920 Speaker 2: because your flight delayed and. 219 00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:54,800 Speaker 3: You yes, you know because anywhere you're going through or 220 00:11:55,040 --> 00:11:57,600 Speaker 3: I can't even believe you know now that I'm sober, 221 00:11:57,920 --> 00:11:59,640 Speaker 3: you can see how many places. 222 00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:02,560 Speaker 2: You can see you go through the movie, like the 223 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:04,240 Speaker 2: movies with alcohol. 224 00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:06,000 Speaker 1: With your kids, Yes. 225 00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:08,600 Speaker 2: You know, anywhere you go, so you you have to 226 00:12:08,679 --> 00:12:09,760 Speaker 2: process those things. 227 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:13,240 Speaker 1: Yes, I love this so much. So Okay, it's as 228 00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:15,960 Speaker 1: if you already read the whole book. I'm gonna pull 229 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:19,160 Speaker 1: a couple of threads that you put here. One is 230 00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:22,920 Speaker 1: like we're teaching people how to have these conversations. And 231 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:25,959 Speaker 1: one of the exercises in the book is like choose 232 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:29,440 Speaker 1: one thing you love to eat and decide not to 233 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:31,640 Speaker 1: eat it and then just walk through the day and 234 00:12:31,679 --> 00:12:34,360 Speaker 1: see how many times that is on your radar. To 235 00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:36,680 Speaker 1: this point, you just made like you can't drive down 236 00:12:36,720 --> 00:12:39,720 Speaker 1: the street and not see a bear billboard. You can't 237 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:41,959 Speaker 1: go to the grocery store to get some Hamburger meat 238 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:44,160 Speaker 1: and not walk down the liquor out. You can't go 239 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:46,640 Speaker 1: to the movies and not see beer on the me 240 00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:48,560 Speaker 1: and you can't go to the airport, right, And so 241 00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:51,720 Speaker 1: that's one of the things. But I want to really 242 00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:54,920 Speaker 1: pull this thread, Jason. You said people feel like, because 243 00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:58,079 Speaker 1: of the damage that has been done when they were 244 00:12:58,080 --> 00:13:01,800 Speaker 1: in their active addiction, that they don't they shouldn't have fun. 245 00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:04,760 Speaker 1: You should just always be giving back to your community. 246 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:07,880 Speaker 1: And I know you're You're in the traditions of the 247 00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:10,720 Speaker 1: twelve Steps, so you know the shoulds. The shoulds are 248 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:15,000 Speaker 1: the biggest jail. Exactly like you just said, I would say, 249 00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:19,440 Speaker 1: you owe it to your community to have fun, because 250 00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:23,400 Speaker 1: that fun is actually feeding your sobriety, and your sobriety 251 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:26,000 Speaker 1: is feeding your ability to give back to the community. 252 00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:32,280 Speaker 1: Because we are biologically wired as humans, we need joy, 253 00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:36,200 Speaker 1: we need meaning, we need purpose, or we wither and die, 254 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:40,559 Speaker 1: and we don't want people withering and dying. That's not 255 00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:44,280 Speaker 1: what sobriety, that's not what recovery is, right, Recovery has 256 00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:47,920 Speaker 1: to be about joy and fun. So Jason tell me. 257 00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:51,520 Speaker 1: One of the ideas in the book also is there 258 00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:55,880 Speaker 1: are an infinite number of paths to addiction, and so 259 00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:59,360 Speaker 1: there have to be an infinite number of paths to recovery. 260 00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:01,840 Speaker 1: And just like you were saying, you went to treatment 261 00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:04,280 Speaker 1: and it was kind of like a cookie cutter program 262 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:07,319 Speaker 1: for everybody was doing the same thing. Do this, do this, 263 00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:09,560 Speaker 1: do this, do this, and this is what we're trying 264 00:14:09,559 --> 00:14:11,840 Speaker 1: to do different at eleanor Health also right, it's like 265 00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:15,640 Speaker 1: come in, learn about your path, learn about you, and 266 00:14:15,679 --> 00:14:21,120 Speaker 1: then craft and individualized support program. Can you tell us 267 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:25,440 Speaker 1: about your journey in addiction as much as you're willing 268 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:29,200 Speaker 1: and able to share, and your journey to recovery, Like 269 00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:32,320 Speaker 1: you're working a formula right now that works for you. 270 00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:36,000 Speaker 1: How did you learn what this formula is? 271 00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:39,520 Speaker 2: Well, first of all, I'm a high energy guy, and 272 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:44,120 Speaker 2: one of my deepest fears was about getting solbered doctor Harrison, 273 00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:46,480 Speaker 2: was that once you get sold by how are you 274 00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:48,840 Speaker 2: going to have fun? You know, you just you know, 275 00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:51,440 Speaker 2: it's so meeting you can go to and it's so 276 00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:53,760 Speaker 2: diffal in the morning, you're sitting here listening to all 277 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:55,600 Speaker 2: these problems, you go, oh, I don't want to be 278 00:14:55,680 --> 00:14:58,880 Speaker 2: that guy, you know. And sometimes we have people that 279 00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:01,920 Speaker 2: come into the program, them come to rebound, and then 280 00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:04,360 Speaker 2: they tell they they call up their loved ones and 281 00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:06,240 Speaker 2: they go, man, I had a great time today. And 282 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:08,640 Speaker 2: then their loved ones will call us back and speak 283 00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:11,120 Speaker 2: to our doctors and go, are you guys really helping 284 00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:13,320 Speaker 2: the Lord? Is he just down there having fun? And 285 00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:15,480 Speaker 2: I go, it's okay for him to have fun. That's 286 00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:18,560 Speaker 2: what we want. We want to understand that, look how 287 00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:23,160 Speaker 2: much fun they are having while they're sober, right, they 288 00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:25,080 Speaker 2: didn't have this much fun when they were you know, 289 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:27,600 Speaker 2: when they were drinking, you know, So let us work 290 00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:31,440 Speaker 2: on that. So for me, some of the biggest issues 291 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:37,800 Speaker 2: that I ran into and my sobriety was when I isolate. See, 292 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:42,400 Speaker 2: isolation is no good. Solitude is okay, you know. 293 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:45,000 Speaker 3: So what I did was I got mad, I got 294 00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:48,400 Speaker 3: the you know, and we call it the effort, you know, 295 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:51,800 Speaker 3: as to everybody, the resemblance of paying the big book. 296 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:53,800 Speaker 2: And you're going in and you'd be like, hey, you 297 00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:56,480 Speaker 2: know that with this person. This person's never gonna help 298 00:15:56,480 --> 00:15:58,160 Speaker 2: me in with And then I went up and I 299 00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:00,280 Speaker 2: bought a cabin in the middle of the woods, and 300 00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:01,760 Speaker 2: I just said, you know what, I'm going to live 301 00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:04,560 Speaker 2: by myself. And I thought it was good. And this 302 00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:07,040 Speaker 2: is before I stopped drinking and I started to have 303 00:16:07,160 --> 00:16:10,560 Speaker 2: my can taker bringing me Bandelion wine and moonshine, and 304 00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:12,640 Speaker 2: I was just drinking it. And before I knew it, it 305 00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:15,200 Speaker 2: was like a red rum, red rum. I was like 306 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:17,960 Speaker 2: the guy from the Shine Jack Nicholas, you know. So 307 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:22,760 Speaker 2: I was just like, you know, so isolation was actually 308 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:26,400 Speaker 2: driving me nuts, driving me crazy as much as the 309 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:29,880 Speaker 2: alcohol was. So what we do he had rebound is 310 00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:32,680 Speaker 2: a lot of other places will and look, I'm not 311 00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:35,600 Speaker 2: all the other places are very good. Anybody to be 312 00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:38,640 Speaker 2: in this field, there's a very difficult field. So I 313 00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:42,240 Speaker 2: applord everyone doing it agree, especially the people that are 314 00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:44,800 Speaker 2: doing it right, to take it on. So our alumni, 315 00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:47,520 Speaker 2: uh speak, we have this. We have three of the 316 00:16:47,560 --> 00:16:50,240 Speaker 2: thirty eight different alumnment. We had this Marco Polo and 317 00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:53,680 Speaker 2: where every day somebody has in is different groups. Somebody 318 00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:56,120 Speaker 2: have twenty five in the group, somebody at five, somebody 319 00:16:56,200 --> 00:16:59,520 Speaker 2: have thirty. So every day we have word of today. 320 00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:03,120 Speaker 2: Today word was courageous, So everybody has to get on 321 00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:06,399 Speaker 2: and talk about inside of one minute what that word 322 00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:08,760 Speaker 2: meant to them. And then we get a chance since 323 00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:12,000 Speaker 2: like I'm looking at you, doctor Harrison, to see what 324 00:17:12,080 --> 00:17:14,560 Speaker 2: you look like if you had on sunglasses right now 325 00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:17,000 Speaker 2: and it was nighttime. They would all like, it's the 326 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:20,520 Speaker 2: obstgal modality is run by the alumni, but it's professionally 327 00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:23,280 Speaker 2: managed by us, and they would say, hey, you know what, 328 00:17:23,840 --> 00:17:27,199 Speaker 2: Derrick count on sunglasses today and it was nighttime, we 329 00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:27,919 Speaker 2: better check. 330 00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:28,720 Speaker 1: On what's up with that? 331 00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:31,359 Speaker 2: So we get a chance, really and we get a 332 00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:33,360 Speaker 2: chance to g check you too, so we can look 333 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:36,320 Speaker 2: over and go, you know what, if you're really at work, 334 00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:38,879 Speaker 2: let me see your boss, move the camera around you. 335 00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:44,320 Speaker 2: So you know. It's about accountability. And for me, the 336 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:47,040 Speaker 2: piece that I get from sobriety, the piece that helps 337 00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:49,480 Speaker 2: me out most in my life is where people can 338 00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:52,880 Speaker 2: depend on me. That would gives me peace, and that's 339 00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:55,760 Speaker 2: what I try to I'm a warning or an example 340 00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:58,280 Speaker 2: the people when they come down here, but I'm all 341 00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:00,840 Speaker 2: over them I'm just seven days a week. You know, 342 00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:04,400 Speaker 2: this is the best time and the best life I'm 343 00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:07,480 Speaker 2: ever living in My life is right now. I get 344 00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:10,680 Speaker 2: a chance every day. Look, I'm not a psychiatrist like yourself. 345 00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:14,000 Speaker 2: I'm not a therapist. I'm just a guy who when 346 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:15,800 Speaker 2: they go to group, I might sit in if they 347 00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:17,840 Speaker 2: want me to. But most of the time I'm working 348 00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:20,679 Speaker 2: on the ranch and feeding animals on pruney trees. I'm 349 00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:24,080 Speaker 2: cutting grass just to keep it, you know, and to 350 00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:26,879 Speaker 2: keep my saturity and keep the place looking good. But 351 00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:29,359 Speaker 2: I'm the guy without door adventure therapy. I'm the guy 352 00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:32,320 Speaker 2: who's telling you the stories that want happened to me, 353 00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:34,520 Speaker 2: and I don't want this to happen to you. Because 354 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:37,639 Speaker 2: we also work with the prevention. Right we throw basketball 355 00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:41,280 Speaker 2: campstead of disguise as basketball camps with Charles Oakley, the 356 00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:47,400 Speaker 2: NBA great, and we teach etiquette, grooming, rebonding, shooting, how 357 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:48,360 Speaker 2: to deal with authority. 358 00:18:48,840 --> 00:18:50,800 Speaker 1: This is for kids. This is for kids. 359 00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:54,359 Speaker 2: That's for children, because I'm too young to start talking 360 00:18:54,359 --> 00:18:57,879 Speaker 2: about you know, alcohol and marijuana. You know, people coldly 361 00:18:57,960 --> 00:19:00,359 Speaker 2: bound all the time and they tell us out of 362 00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:03,800 Speaker 2: just smoking mailjuana, and that's not bad because Mailjana is 363 00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:06,359 Speaker 2: legal now and then go, yes, it is legal, but 364 00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:07,280 Speaker 2: so is alcohol. 365 00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:11,400 Speaker 1: So is alcohol, so is cigarettes. So are prescription pills. 366 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:14,520 Speaker 2: So is prescription pills. But if you misuse any of these, 367 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:15,919 Speaker 2: you're in trouble, you know. 368 00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:20,720 Speaker 1: So I have a very strong family history of addiction, 369 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:25,320 Speaker 1: so on my mom's side, mostly cocaine and alcohol, on 370 00:19:25,359 --> 00:19:29,159 Speaker 1: my dad's side alcohol as well. And so one of 371 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:32,960 Speaker 1: the things that people don't recognize is how much of 372 00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:35,960 Speaker 1: your risk for addiction is coded in your DNA the 373 00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:38,680 Speaker 1: day that you're born. And so to your point, it's 374 00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:41,639 Speaker 1: never too young to start having the conversation. My kids 375 00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:45,240 Speaker 1: were three years old, and I'm having the conversation with them, right, 376 00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:47,720 Speaker 1: and it's like three years old, four years old. And 377 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:49,600 Speaker 1: then the book we actually teach you how to have 378 00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:53,600 Speaker 1: this conversation at the different age points. But my messaging 379 00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:56,640 Speaker 1: to the kids was like, listen, just like diabetes runs 380 00:19:56,640 --> 00:20:00,080 Speaker 1: in families, just like cancer runs in families, addiction runs 381 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:03,359 Speaker 1: and family. So like your friend might be able to 382 00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:06,440 Speaker 1: do a line of cocaine in the bathroom and be fine, 383 00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:10,359 Speaker 1: our DNA a line of cocaine in the bathroom turns 384 00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:13,800 Speaker 1: into a whole different thing. So like here's how you 385 00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:17,879 Speaker 1: keep yourself safe, right, And so your basketball camps that 386 00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:21,160 Speaker 1: you're doing for these younger kids not only teaching them 387 00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:25,560 Speaker 1: kind of like healthy decision making, giving them meaning and 388 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:28,600 Speaker 1: joy and connection and fun, which is so important. Like 389 00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:32,119 Speaker 1: our young people and teenagers are going through so much 390 00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:37,480 Speaker 1: very early in life. They already have those adverse childhood experiences. 391 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:40,719 Speaker 1: You are helping to reduce their risk of addiction. 392 00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:45,000 Speaker 2: Yes, you know. And to bring up a point when 393 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:49,000 Speaker 2: you were talking about your grandparents and your parents and 394 00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:49,720 Speaker 2: your mom. 395 00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:53,000 Speaker 1: With addiction, Oh, well, my mom's family, not my mom, 396 00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:55,800 Speaker 1: but her brothers and sisters. Yeah, brothers and sisters. 397 00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:58,000 Speaker 2: Your mom's friend. You're not your mom. Excuse me, your 398 00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:01,680 Speaker 2: mom's family. Some of the joys that at this passion. 399 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:03,919 Speaker 2: I don't call it a job, it's a passion. I 400 00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:06,120 Speaker 2: don't make any money in this business, but it sure 401 00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:08,679 Speaker 2: does keep me out of trouble. And I love you. Know. 402 00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:10,520 Speaker 2: My service to others is the rent I pay here 403 00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:13,240 Speaker 2: on earth now with Muhammad Ali told me that a 404 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:14,040 Speaker 2: long time ago. 405 00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:14,800 Speaker 1: I love you. 406 00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:17,640 Speaker 2: So when we when I go to speak at African 407 00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:22,960 Speaker 2: American churches and I start talking about addiction, how far 408 00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:26,800 Speaker 2: back are we as a race that we really don't 409 00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:30,679 Speaker 2: know about treatment and addiction. It's like, what you know? 410 00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:34,040 Speaker 2: So I start telling them it's okay, you know, this 411 00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:37,800 Speaker 2: is a disease, just like if you had cancer. Unfortunately, 412 00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:41,040 Speaker 2: if you had cancer, you know you have to get chemo. 413 00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:44,200 Speaker 2: And if you have an addiction and then you're misusing 414 00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:48,040 Speaker 2: drugs alcohol, you have to get treatment. But as African Americans, 415 00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:53,760 Speaker 2: we at times, especially the older generation like my grandmother 416 00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:57,560 Speaker 2: and maybe my dad, would say something to the fact 417 00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:01,880 Speaker 2: that they rather you go to ja then go to treatment, 418 00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:04,199 Speaker 2: because if you went to jail, that means you just 419 00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:07,119 Speaker 2: had a bad night, But if you went to treatment 420 00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:10,040 Speaker 2: that means, oh you are drugs. That might mean that 421 00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:13,399 Speaker 2: was the way he was raised. Oh you know what 422 00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:16,640 Speaker 2: I'm saying. My parents raised me and Eddie the way 423 00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:20,120 Speaker 2: my parents are loving parents, green parents parents. My dad 424 00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:23,320 Speaker 2: is my best friend, my mom was like my best friend. 425 00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:25,919 Speaker 2: I loved them, but they didn't you know, they couldn't 426 00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:28,479 Speaker 2: have done a better job than me. But I, like 427 00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:31,760 Speaker 2: you said your DNA, I had an addiction. Yeah you know, 428 00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:34,560 Speaker 2: and so it doesn't mean the way my parents raised 429 00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:37,600 Speaker 2: So parents get beat themselves up. Yeah, my goodness. I 430 00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:40,479 Speaker 2: have a kid who's a TV star right now, and 431 00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:42,760 Speaker 2: he's on his way from Hollywood to get here, and 432 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:45,240 Speaker 2: his parents are saying, oh, well, his blood pressure is 433 00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:47,359 Speaker 2: a little elevated. I don't know if I want to 434 00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:48,840 Speaker 2: throw him on a plane. I don't know if I 435 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:50,840 Speaker 2: want people to see him like this walking through the 436 00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:53,600 Speaker 2: airport and then making all these excuses. I'm like, do 437 00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:54,760 Speaker 2: you want your son to live? 438 00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:55,280 Speaker 1: To live? 439 00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:57,959 Speaker 2: Are you worried about what somebody gonna take a picture 440 00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:00,840 Speaker 2: and he got on sunblasses or he stuck. You get 441 00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:03,240 Speaker 2: his behind on the plane, You get them down here, 442 00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:05,800 Speaker 2: and we start to get them better. That heck what 443 00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:10,200 Speaker 2: other people think about right now? The stigma right yeah? 444 00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:13,199 Speaker 1: With the family, Yeah, you know, that's the stigma, and 445 00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:13,880 Speaker 1: it's deadly. 446 00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:17,879 Speaker 2: The other thing we do is that we have to 447 00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:21,360 Speaker 2: get the family members to understand and hopefully they get 448 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:24,600 Speaker 2: better also, because look, if one person starts getting better 449 00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:27,760 Speaker 2: and then you go home and that other sibling or 450 00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:31,439 Speaker 2: that other spouse is still drinking or drugging, then another spouse, 451 00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:36,160 Speaker 2: of course is gonna feel neglected, but also gonna feel shamed. 452 00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:38,960 Speaker 2: It's like back in the day, my daddy used to 453 00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:41,720 Speaker 2: tell me. He said, Jay, you see a little boat 454 00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:44,720 Speaker 2: fet you know, his wife going to the gym, And 455 00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:46,639 Speaker 2: I said that, what does that mean? He goes? She 456 00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:52,280 Speaker 2: about to leave them? So we have to get the 457 00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:56,000 Speaker 2: whole family and everyone better at the same time. So 458 00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:59,200 Speaker 2: we're big on big family therapy and preparing them when 459 00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:02,280 Speaker 2: they leave us to get back into their family society. 460 00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:04,720 Speaker 1: Also, I love it because it's similar to something you 461 00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:08,160 Speaker 1: said earlier, right, Like everything we're talking about is connection 462 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:13,840 Speaker 1: support system. We are pack animals, right, And so when 463 00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:15,760 Speaker 1: we look at it, I kind of divide it into 464 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:19,439 Speaker 1: your childhood and your adulthood. The six conversations and the 465 00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:24,480 Speaker 1: six conversations are, what is your genetic risk, right, Biological 466 00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:27,199 Speaker 1: you're born with it. What is your childhood risk you 467 00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:31,360 Speaker 1: were born into that. Psychologically, what is your environmental childhood risk? 468 00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:34,000 Speaker 1: You were born into that, right. And so that's part 469 00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:37,199 Speaker 1: of where you're talking about, like the stigma that we 470 00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:40,000 Speaker 1: grow up with, like you cannot be a person with 471 00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:45,159 Speaker 1: addiction or somehow you have no value, which is killing people. 472 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:49,280 Speaker 1: And then in adulthood the same thing like okay, biologically 473 00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:54,360 Speaker 1: being a pro ballplayer and the injuries and chronic physical 474 00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:57,840 Speaker 1: pain that comes with that flying all over the place 475 00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:00,159 Speaker 1: and the changes that makes in your brain and not 476 00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:04,080 Speaker 1: being able to sleep. The culture of you know, being 477 00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:06,120 Speaker 1: a pro, and the parties and the clubs and all 478 00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:08,800 Speaker 1: this stuff that we see on TV, right those same 479 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:12,720 Speaker 1: three buckets when you're an adult, across all of those 480 00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:17,080 Speaker 1: as the fact, we are pack animals, and so the 481 00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:21,280 Speaker 1: pack that you run with matters. And I feel like 482 00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:24,199 Speaker 1: what I'm hearing you're doing as part of Rebound and 483 00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:26,560 Speaker 1: as part of the basketball camps that you're doing for 484 00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:30,680 Speaker 1: the young people is really giving them a pack that 485 00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:37,280 Speaker 1: validates their value without substances, validates their value no matter 486 00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:40,399 Speaker 1: what life experiences they're having, gives them a sense of 487 00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:44,639 Speaker 1: connection and purpose that they can lean back on. And 488 00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:46,640 Speaker 1: we have to teach that to the rest of their 489 00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:48,320 Speaker 1: pack that they were born into. 490 00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:51,919 Speaker 2: Right one percent, Doctor Erison. You know, one of the 491 00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:55,040 Speaker 2: things I've learned in the last eight years is what 492 00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:58,359 Speaker 2: kind of friends do I have? And just because I 493 00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:02,000 Speaker 2: know you thirty five forty years, I still love you. 494 00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:05,159 Speaker 2: But sometimes those friends that are still partying and drinking, 495 00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:07,320 Speaker 2: I have to feed them with a long handled spoon. 496 00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:10,240 Speaker 2: You know, I gotta be a distance, so I have 497 00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:14,399 Speaker 2: breakfast friends. I have lunch friends, and I have dinner friends. 498 00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:18,440 Speaker 2: Breakfast friends means that these guys that know me or 499 00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:20,159 Speaker 2: my own life, they go, Gee, I'm coming down to 500 00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:22,479 Speaker 2: Florida and I'm gonna do what do you do in 501 00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:24,840 Speaker 2: this program? And then you know we're gonna hang out 502 00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:27,359 Speaker 2: and come on down, but you're gonna have to do 503 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:29,080 Speaker 2: what we do. So Sime, we get to the gym 504 00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:31,280 Speaker 2: at seven o'clock in the morning, they're worn out. But 505 00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:32,920 Speaker 2: then they go, oh, what we gonna do today with 506 00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:34,160 Speaker 2: jumping out of airplane? 507 00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:38,240 Speaker 3: What I'm gonna go to Miami and I'll come back tonight, 508 00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:39,880 Speaker 3: you know, And then you don't have to see them 509 00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:40,840 Speaker 3: anymore because. 510 00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:44,400 Speaker 2: I've I'm living right. So you have breakfast friends where 511 00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:47,120 Speaker 2: you're not sure about them, and very you know they're 512 00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:50,000 Speaker 2: not gonna pull out a drink order probably at eight 513 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:52,640 Speaker 2: o'clock in the morning. They might, but you know there's 514 00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:55,960 Speaker 2: much more unlikely. And then you have lunch friends who 515 00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:58,399 Speaker 2: you kind of know a little better, and then you 516 00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:02,359 Speaker 2: know that they understand, but you know, dinner friends or 517 00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:06,800 Speaker 2: somebody who really do understand the disease I am, and 518 00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:09,160 Speaker 2: you know, so that's the pack I got to run 519 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:12,399 Speaker 2: with the dinner friends. I really do trust you know, 520 00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:17,119 Speaker 2: the loved friends. The breakfast friends, I definitely don't trust you. 521 00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:19,600 Speaker 2: So if I'm having breakfast with you, you know, it's like, 522 00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:22,439 Speaker 2: hey man, anything can go off right now, you know. 523 00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:24,639 Speaker 2: And I know at nine o'clock in the morning, me 524 00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:26,439 Speaker 2: and you're not going to be driving down the highway 525 00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:27,440 Speaker 2: drawing you. 526 00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:30,280 Speaker 1: Didn't You didn't even say brunch. You don't even give 527 00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:40,720 Speaker 1: them the midday. I love that so much? Okay, can 528 00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:44,760 Speaker 1: I steal it? I definitely want to, you can. I 529 00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:48,560 Speaker 1: love it breakfast friends. And it's so funny because our 530 00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:53,200 Speaker 1: ties are deepest to the people from our childhood. Many times, 531 00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:57,760 Speaker 1: and many times we need to grow into breakfast relationships 532 00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:01,720 Speaker 1: with our childhood friends, right and even some of our 533 00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:05,440 Speaker 1: family members we have to grow into breakfast relationships. 534 00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:08,560 Speaker 2: It's one hundred percent. Look what family reunions do you 535 00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:11,320 Speaker 2: know do to you? You know, you know it when 536 00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:13,720 Speaker 2: your cousin comes because I got to speak to you 537 00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:16,320 Speaker 2: a little bit around here, you know after it. You know, 538 00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:20,760 Speaker 2: there's so much pressure for people like yourself and I 539 00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:24,199 Speaker 2: who you know, highly educated. And I'm not saying that 540 00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:26,920 Speaker 2: my family. My family is very highly educated. But then 541 00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:29,600 Speaker 2: you have the other group that pretty much want to 542 00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:34,160 Speaker 2: make you feel guilty for being successful, you know, and 543 00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:36,720 Speaker 2: and I think that's what you know, sobriety is all about. 544 00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:39,600 Speaker 2: I think that's what rebound is all about. I think 545 00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:41,080 Speaker 2: you all are doing a great job with that. 546 00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:41,320 Speaker 1: You know. 547 00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:43,920 Speaker 2: I was so happy when I was doing my research 548 00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:47,720 Speaker 2: on you when you were talking about relationships, because relationships 549 00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:53,040 Speaker 2: is so important in staying sober. You know, you can't isolate, 550 00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:55,680 Speaker 2: and you know every once in a while you need 551 00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:58,840 Speaker 2: to take some time to yourself. That's cool, but relationships 552 00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:02,040 Speaker 2: and oh you surround yourself. We say it all the time. Yeah, 553 00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:04,880 Speaker 2: show me your friends, I'll show you your future, right 554 00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:07,160 Speaker 2: m Yeah. 555 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:11,360 Speaker 1: I mean that's a word, especially for young folks, that's 556 00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:15,000 Speaker 1: a word. I love this, this visual you just gave 557 00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:17,959 Speaker 1: us of like your friendships bouncing off rather than cutting 558 00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:21,400 Speaker 1: into you. Because you also like, sometimes you have to 559 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:25,840 Speaker 1: look at yourself and say, if I am somebody's future, right, like, 560 00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:28,520 Speaker 1: show me your friends, I'll show you your future. If 561 00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:31,200 Speaker 1: I am somebody's future, is this the future I want 562 00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:35,040 Speaker 1: to be for somebody exactly? And sometimes the answer to 563 00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:38,240 Speaker 1: that is no, right, Like I'm not contributing anything to 564 00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:41,120 Speaker 1: this person's future that I would want in my own future. 565 00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:44,720 Speaker 2: And doctor Erison, I know you're better at this than 566 00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:47,480 Speaker 2: I am. I've been a yes guy my whole life. 567 00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:49,360 Speaker 2: People ask me to do something, I'd be like yes, 568 00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:52,120 Speaker 2: especially when they say, oh it's six months await, oh yeah, 569 00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:54,080 Speaker 2: I do it whatever, And then six months comes on 570 00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:55,840 Speaker 2: and you got all this pressure because you got a 571 00:29:55,880 --> 00:30:00,200 Speaker 2: lot going on, you know, so being able to to 572 00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:03,720 Speaker 2: say no, it was a long way. In your surprise, Yes, 573 00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:06,719 Speaker 2: raounderies right, No, I can't do that. No, I'm not 574 00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:09,200 Speaker 2: gonna have time why. You know. One of the greatest 575 00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:12,440 Speaker 2: things about about working on your sobriety every day is 576 00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:15,760 Speaker 2: that you can now nitpick things and cherry pick things 577 00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:17,960 Speaker 2: that you don't want to go to. People ask me 578 00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:20,520 Speaker 2: all the time, you know, can you come to my wedding? 579 00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:24,320 Speaker 2: I go, you know, are you gonna have alcohol there? 580 00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:28,440 Speaker 1: That's great. 581 00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:31,640 Speaker 2: I'm feeling pretty strong these days, so you know, it 582 00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:34,280 Speaker 2: gets you out a lot of things. Anything that starts 583 00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:37,000 Speaker 2: past six thirty at night you don't have to go to. 584 00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:39,760 Speaker 2: You know, I'm in bed by nine o'clock. You know, 585 00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:43,160 Speaker 2: nothing good happens after eleven thirty. You know, I got 586 00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:48,240 Speaker 2: into a little fender bender at three point fifty four PM, 587 00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:52,000 Speaker 2: so right, you know, in the afternoon, and it was fine, 588 00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:55,000 Speaker 2: but magic getting into that at two point fifty four 589 00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:55,480 Speaker 2: in the morning. 590 00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:59,040 Speaker 1: Morning, right, a whole different set of circumstances. 591 00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:02,080 Speaker 2: I've noticed, doctor that most of the times I get 592 00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:04,960 Speaker 2: in trouble are the early mornings of the night of 593 00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:07,360 Speaker 2: the morning. Yep, you know, So what do I do now? 594 00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:11,040 Speaker 2: I eliminated that, So no more early mornings, you know, 595 00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:14,440 Speaker 2: one o'clock, two o'clock, three o'clock, I'm sleeping. Four thirty 596 00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:17,080 Speaker 2: five o'clock, I'm going to the gym while other people 597 00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:19,560 Speaker 2: are coming in. And I feel good about that, And 598 00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:22,600 Speaker 2: I almost feel sorry for those people that, especially people 599 00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:24,360 Speaker 2: in my age, that are still going through it, because 600 00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:26,200 Speaker 2: you know that yucky taste that you get in your 601 00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:29,760 Speaker 2: mouth in the morning time and not having energy, and 602 00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:31,720 Speaker 2: I know, going through a lot of things in my 603 00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:35,600 Speaker 2: life when I did not have energy, I would just 604 00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:38,120 Speaker 2: run from them and then hope they will go away 605 00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:41,400 Speaker 2: on their home. But once you get energy, and you 606 00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:45,080 Speaker 2: put that with some sobriety and you surround yourself with 607 00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:48,280 Speaker 2: good people, you can overcome and stop running, because the 608 00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:50,000 Speaker 2: first thing as an addict we want to do an 609 00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:53,360 Speaker 2: alcoholic as myself, is we want to run, you know, 610 00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:55,480 Speaker 2: we want to run from things. And one of the 611 00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:58,400 Speaker 2: things that at Rebound, at our place, we've had the 612 00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:01,120 Speaker 2: same people for going on heat years, and you know 613 00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:03,720 Speaker 2: how odd that is an addiction to keep people and 614 00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:05,960 Speaker 2: to keep the same people, you know, because people know 615 00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:08,200 Speaker 2: we're doing it right. We love each other even on 616 00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:10,840 Speaker 2: our day off on Sundays when they come, we're all 617 00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:13,200 Speaker 2: barbecue and we're all a part of each other's family. 618 00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:15,960 Speaker 2: You can't do any staff splitting. You can't say hey, 619 00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:19,480 Speaker 2: doctor them said this, or Mark said this, or this 620 00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:22,160 Speaker 2: person said that. Because we're so small, we've been doing 621 00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:24,720 Speaker 2: it for so long. We know you're trying to deflect, 622 00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:26,320 Speaker 2: you know, yeah. 623 00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:28,240 Speaker 1: We really what's the testament to connection? 624 00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:31,560 Speaker 2: Right? Wedn't want people to get better because every time 625 00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:35,520 Speaker 2: somebody gets better, I add a new healthy friend, a 626 00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:38,520 Speaker 2: new healthy family member. You know, you can't pick well, 627 00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:41,040 Speaker 2: how does it go? You can't pick your family, right, 628 00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:44,120 Speaker 2: you know, but you can pick your friends. So you 629 00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:46,600 Speaker 2: know it's all about now, you know. Yeah, I love 630 00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:49,480 Speaker 2: when people graduate when not graduat when they transition from 631 00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:52,800 Speaker 2: rebound and back into society because now I have a 632 00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:55,520 Speaker 2: whole new fresh face to keep me accountable. 633 00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:58,920 Speaker 1: I could hear the magic sauce and rebound. First of all, 634 00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:04,200 Speaker 1: it's just like pouring out of you the passion what 635 00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:08,600 Speaker 1: do I want to call it? Like passionate compassion right, 636 00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:12,720 Speaker 1: like you care so deeply. And I think that is 637 00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:17,720 Speaker 1: one of the stigmas that kills people with addiction, is 638 00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:21,600 Speaker 1: like we make them feel they are not worthy to 639 00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:24,400 Speaker 1: be loved, They're not worthy to be cared for, They're 640 00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:29,040 Speaker 1: not worthy to be valued. And I think probably day one, 641 00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:32,480 Speaker 1: people come in into rebound if they feel from you 642 00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:37,480 Speaker 1: in person what I'm feeling from you over this podcast, 643 00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:43,280 Speaker 1: which is just like a deep, genuine, authentic caring for 644 00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:46,480 Speaker 1: them as a human being. I think that's the first 645 00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:48,640 Speaker 1: secret sauce that sets off the rest of the path. 646 00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:50,800 Speaker 1: Would you agree, yes? 647 00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:55,800 Speaker 2: And nobody comes into rebound even after they go through emissions. 648 00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:57,920 Speaker 2: Most of the time. You're gonna speak to me if 649 00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:00,840 Speaker 2: you call rebound. We're so small you probably get me, you. 650 00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:05,280 Speaker 3: Know, but you would definitely speak to me before you 651 00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:07,640 Speaker 3: get on the plane, because I want to make sure 652 00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:09,960 Speaker 3: that you really coming for. 653 00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:13,360 Speaker 2: The main reason, and the main reason is to get better. 654 00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:16,360 Speaker 2: If you tell me, Jason, I want to get better, 655 00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:18,719 Speaker 2: I'm saying, come on that skout, because I want, like 656 00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:21,440 Speaker 2: I said, I want to extend my family members. You know, 657 00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:23,399 Speaker 2: I want to be able to hang out with you 658 00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:26,040 Speaker 2: because now we're on the same page, we got something 659 00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:28,960 Speaker 2: in common, and we're gonna be keeping each other accountable. 660 00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:31,200 Speaker 2: So at the very end, like after the doctor's in 661 00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:33,640 Speaker 2: the intake and everybody speaks to them, they already know 662 00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:36,080 Speaker 2: after eight years Jay alrighty signed for you to speak 663 00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:37,399 Speaker 2: to them, and I go, hey, do you really want 664 00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:39,120 Speaker 2: to get better? Because you're gonna be a part of 665 00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:41,880 Speaker 2: our family forever, and we want to make sure that 666 00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:44,000 Speaker 2: you're a good person, and you're gonna act like a 667 00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:47,280 Speaker 2: good person. And look, you're gonna have peaks and valleys, 668 00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:49,800 Speaker 2: but we're gonna be there for you because, to be honest, 669 00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:52,200 Speaker 2: you know I have peaks and valleys. We all have 670 00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:55,560 Speaker 2: peaks in valley. Some days you know, you just oh, man, 671 00:34:55,640 --> 00:34:57,319 Speaker 2: I got to get up today to go do this. 672 00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:00,120 Speaker 2: But if you know, or some days when somebody's I'm 673 00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:03,200 Speaker 2: doing well, I should say I get down on myself 674 00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:06,480 Speaker 2: because like an athlete. You always want to win. And 675 00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:09,479 Speaker 2: then I need somebody to call me up and go, hey, Jay, 676 00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:13,760 Speaker 2: you know, turn on Marco Polo and today's Rodney's fifth 677 00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:16,640 Speaker 2: anniversary of being sober. All right, here we go. We're 678 00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:20,360 Speaker 2: back at it, you know, so just extending the family 679 00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:24,279 Speaker 2: and it's nothing better. As you know, is when the 680 00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:26,719 Speaker 2: light goes off on people. When you see that light 681 00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:28,959 Speaker 2: goes off and they get it and they're saying, hey, 682 00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:32,520 Speaker 2: you know, sobriety is cool. Sick. You know, I'm no 683 00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:35,880 Speaker 2: longer being sick sick, I'm being sic sick. You know 684 00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:39,000 Speaker 2: I'm getting better, you know, sobriety is being cool and 685 00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:42,200 Speaker 2: we're all doing the same thing and having fun. Yeah, 686 00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:45,480 Speaker 2: and then living your best life. That's what keeps us going. 687 00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:48,360 Speaker 1: I love it, and you know what I love too, Jason. 688 00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:51,160 Speaker 1: And okay, this is your this is your three minute 689 00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:53,920 Speaker 1: heads up that the final question is coming. What you 690 00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:57,160 Speaker 1: want us to unlearn, undo or uncover? Okay, okay, But 691 00:35:57,480 --> 00:35:59,480 Speaker 1: what I want to say while you're thinking about that 692 00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:03,839 Speaker 1: is that I am loving and it is relatively new. 693 00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:11,799 Speaker 1: Is how much the public media is celebrating sobriety and 694 00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:15,400 Speaker 1: recovery and even people who are still struggling with addiction. 695 00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:17,680 Speaker 1: Are like, I'm struggling, and I'm trying to get better. 696 00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:22,320 Speaker 1: I think putting it out there, having you tell your story, 697 00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:27,760 Speaker 1: having you run rebound, like we love celebrities in this country, 698 00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:31,319 Speaker 1: we just do right. Like we love famous people. And 699 00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:36,240 Speaker 1: when I was growing up, what famous was was drinking 700 00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:39,799 Speaker 1: and drugging and clubbing. Like that's what famous got you, 701 00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:42,160 Speaker 1: and so it made all of us want it. And 702 00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:45,400 Speaker 1: now I see a real change where like, and being 703 00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:49,760 Speaker 1: sober is sick too, right, being a celebrity who's living 704 00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:55,160 Speaker 1: the high life without being high is really becoming a thing, 705 00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:56,840 Speaker 1: and I think it's really powerful. 706 00:36:56,920 --> 00:36:58,719 Speaker 2: If I remember, at six years old, I was going 707 00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:01,719 Speaker 2: to see my patent kind of and I saved up 708 00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:03,600 Speaker 2: for three weeks and I bought me a pair of 709 00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:07,799 Speaker 2: dollar sunglasses. And I got off in LA because I 710 00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:10,239 Speaker 2: just thought that's where all the movies stars live. And 711 00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:13,520 Speaker 2: I had some glasses on, and my aunt looked over 712 00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:15,640 Speaker 2: at me, and she know, take them glasses off. It's nighttime. 713 00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:18,520 Speaker 2: They gonna think you a junkie. Oh I'm six years old, 714 00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:22,759 Speaker 2: I'm see but my whole life, doctor Harrison. You know, 715 00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:25,719 Speaker 2: from then on, I always wanted to be famous. See, 716 00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:28,000 Speaker 2: I wanted to be the best that I can be 717 00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:30,480 Speaker 2: and what I'm doing, and that was maybe rebounding or 718 00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:33,799 Speaker 2: playing basketball or doing what I'm doing, but my whole life, 719 00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:36,560 Speaker 2: I wanted to wear those dark glasses so people can 720 00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:40,719 Speaker 2: recognize me. Now, I'm so comfortable with myself and where 721 00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:43,040 Speaker 2: I'm mad in my life that I pretty much wear 722 00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:45,759 Speaker 2: those dark glasses now because I don't want people to 723 00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:48,919 Speaker 2: recognize me because I'm happy with what I'm doing right now. 724 00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:51,000 Speaker 2: So two different ways. You know, I wanted to be 725 00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:53,560 Speaker 2: a movie star w with the sunglasses on. Now I'm 726 00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:56,600 Speaker 2: just like, hey, you know, I'm living my best life. 727 00:37:56,600 --> 00:38:00,400 Speaker 2: And if you never call my name out in public again, okay, 728 00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:04,040 Speaker 2: because I have all the alumni rebound, I have a 729 00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:07,040 Speaker 2: bunch of good people around me. God keeps putting people 730 00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:09,319 Speaker 2: in my life through the grace of God to help 731 00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:12,160 Speaker 2: them get better, and that's where my energy comes from. 732 00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:14,520 Speaker 2: And that's my accolades. 733 00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:17,640 Speaker 1: I love it. I love it so much. Okay, so 734 00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:21,440 Speaker 1: let's roll into the last question, which I gave you 735 00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:25,080 Speaker 1: the heads up on. We're gonna ask everybody, no stress, 736 00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:29,520 Speaker 1: no pressure. There are there are only amazing answers here Jason, Okay, 737 00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:34,719 Speaker 1: if there's one thing thinking about your journey all the 738 00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:37,399 Speaker 1: way from the beginning to where you are today, if 739 00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:41,840 Speaker 1: there's one thing you want people to either unlearn about addiction, 740 00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:44,439 Speaker 1: or a piece of the stigma of addiction you want 741 00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:48,480 Speaker 1: to undo, or a conversation you want to uncover that 742 00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:51,719 Speaker 1: we should be having. What words of wisdom do you 743 00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:52,640 Speaker 1: want to leave us with. 744 00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:57,600 Speaker 2: I remember, probably about six or seven years ago, maybe 745 00:38:57,600 --> 00:39:02,880 Speaker 2: a little longer, addiction and getting better, sobriety and recovery 746 00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:06,640 Speaker 2: was sexy in politics, and I think a lot of 747 00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:09,200 Speaker 2: that was coming from people used to always think it 748 00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:13,359 Speaker 2: was brown and black people that had addiction problems. But 749 00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:16,920 Speaker 2: I think once the i hate to say over prescribed 750 00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:20,560 Speaker 2: drugs started hitting and it wasn't a drug deal on 751 00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:23,839 Speaker 2: the corner giving. It was just over prescribing people. And 752 00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:26,160 Speaker 2: then you had a whole different race of people start 753 00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:28,839 Speaker 2: doing it. A lot of other people started waking up, 754 00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:31,920 Speaker 2: and it became much more attention. Like I said before, 755 00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:35,839 Speaker 2: still there's not enough African Americans going to recovery, going 756 00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:39,000 Speaker 2: into treatment because I'm pretty much they're just n't educated 757 00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:41,080 Speaker 2: about it. They don't know about it. I didn't know 758 00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:43,799 Speaker 2: about it until I got there, and that was eight 759 00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:47,840 Speaker 2: years ago. So that's one. The other thing would be 760 00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:52,040 Speaker 2: dop is that to release the stigma. Yes, you know, 761 00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:55,440 Speaker 2: it's so many high profile people that come through our program, 762 00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:58,520 Speaker 2: so many people I run into they say, hey, you know, Jay, 763 00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:00,440 Speaker 2: I'd rather not have people know I was here. And 764 00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:03,000 Speaker 2: that's your choice. You know, Okay, nobody would ever know 765 00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:06,440 Speaker 2: you a year, but we understand that probably eighty million 766 00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:11,319 Speaker 2: people suffer from this, you know, addiction in this country alone. 767 00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:15,480 Speaker 2: You know, you can't pivot in your family without somebody 768 00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:17,400 Speaker 2: adving it if you don't have it. So don't be 769 00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:20,000 Speaker 2: hypocritical around it, you know, do you just people just 770 00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:22,400 Speaker 2: say suck it up and you know you'll be fine, 771 00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:24,440 Speaker 2: and you know, sleep it off, and those are the 772 00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:27,000 Speaker 2: kind of things not knowing that. We got to get 773 00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:29,080 Speaker 2: to the core of the trauma. We got to get 774 00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:32,400 Speaker 2: to the core of what's going on, because it is 775 00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:35,279 Speaker 2: mental illness. If you put something in your body that 776 00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:38,480 Speaker 2: you know doesn't belong there, just to escape for something, 777 00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:41,719 Speaker 2: that's where the mental illness part comes into also, right, 778 00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:45,000 Speaker 2: because now we want to label everything. You know OCD. 779 00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:47,160 Speaker 2: People tell me, Jay, you have OCD because you always 780 00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:49,360 Speaker 2: trying to be perfect. You're always trying to be No, 781 00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:51,840 Speaker 2: I don't have OCD. I just like to make my 782 00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:54,840 Speaker 2: bed up before I go to work because when I 783 00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:56,560 Speaker 2: come back home, I want to be able to come 784 00:40:56,560 --> 00:40:59,120 Speaker 2: back home and go, wow, this is clean, you know, 785 00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:01,560 Speaker 2: so you don't have to lay every single thing. And 786 00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:04,600 Speaker 2: of course I try to perfect is the opposite of good. 787 00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:07,040 Speaker 2: I just try to give it my best, and that's 788 00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:09,399 Speaker 2: not being perfect. I just try to get one hundred 789 00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:11,800 Speaker 2: of temper set every day and then let the pieces 790 00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:14,759 Speaker 2: for what they made. I played hard, and then as 791 00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:17,680 Speaker 2: hard as I play, hopefully I made a basket I 792 00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:19,480 Speaker 2: was under the bucket and be able to get a 793 00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:22,040 Speaker 2: tip in or maybe help my team in some kind 794 00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:24,480 Speaker 2: of way. And it's the same here. If I'm at 795 00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:27,759 Speaker 2: this program fifteen sixteen hours a day, six seven days 796 00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:30,160 Speaker 2: a week, hopefully some nuggets are going to fall off 797 00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:34,080 Speaker 2: that I'm gonna leave for the teammate that's in rebound 798 00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:37,840 Speaker 2: or vice versa. Because I learned so much from people 799 00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:41,480 Speaker 2: coming in lifting. The stigma would be probably the number 800 00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:44,200 Speaker 2: one thing. Yeah, you know, it keeps so many people 801 00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:45,080 Speaker 2: out of getting better. 802 00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:50,640 Speaker 1: It's so true. It's so true. Number one, undo the stigma. 803 00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:51,800 Speaker 2: Yep. 804 00:41:52,360 --> 00:41:57,359 Speaker 1: I love it all right, So this was amazing. Thank 805 00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:00,360 Speaker 1: you so much. You are so fun and so like. 806 00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:02,440 Speaker 1: Your energy is just so warm. 807 00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:05,520 Speaker 2: I love it well. Thank you, doctor Harrison. And you're 808 00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:07,960 Speaker 2: doing great work at Illinois, you know. And y'all just 809 00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:10,239 Speaker 2: opened up in Cherry Hill. When I played with the 810 00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:13,359 Speaker 2: Philadelphia seventy sixers with Yarles Barkley, I used to live 811 00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:16,279 Speaker 2: in Cherry Hill. It. I'm so proud of y'all. 812 00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:16,680 Speaker 1: Y'all. 813 00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:19,200 Speaker 2: Yes, we gotta work more together. 814 00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:22,759 Speaker 1: We do. We do. So let's definitely stay connected. I 815 00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:26,120 Speaker 1: stay invited myself to people's houses for dinner, so I 816 00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:29,239 Speaker 1: would love to invite myself to the ranch. 817 00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:30,880 Speaker 2: Myself. 818 00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:34,640 Speaker 1: Invitation is welcome. We should definitely definitely stay connected. 819 00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:37,680 Speaker 2: We definitely will bring your chaps in your cowboy boots 820 00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:41,400 Speaker 2: because we definitely we're gonna definitely ride. 821 00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:43,960 Speaker 1: I might have to buy some chaps, but I do 822 00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:46,560 Speaker 1: have some boots. I do have some boots. I'm ready. 823 00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:56,200 Speaker 1: If you are a loved one, are experiencing addiction, seeking 824 00:42:56,239 --> 00:42:59,880 Speaker 1: support in your own recovery, or have questions about substance use, 825 00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:05,480 Speaker 1: visit eleanorhealth dot com that's e l e A n 826 00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:11,120 Speaker 1: O R health dot com. My book on addiction, Six 827 00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:14,399 Speaker 1: mind Changing Conversations that Could Save a Life, is now 828 00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:18,440 Speaker 1: available for pre order at bookshop dot org, Union Square 829 00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:23,160 Speaker 1: and Company, Barnes and Noble, Amazon, and wherever books are sold. 830 00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:26,560 Speaker 1: You can find me on LinkedIn at in zinga A 831 00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:32,000 Speaker 1: Harrison m D, Instagram Threads, and the platform formerly known 832 00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:37,200 Speaker 1: as Twitter at in zinga MD. That's in z i 833 00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:39,920 Speaker 1: n g A m d.