1 00:00:15,076 --> 00:00:25,156 Speaker 1: Pushkin im Ave Higgins and this is Solvable interviews with 2 00:00:25,196 --> 00:00:29,636 Speaker 1: the world's most innovative thinkers working to solve the world's 3 00:00:29,716 --> 00:00:34,236 Speaker 1: biggest problems. My solvable is to get one million women 4 00:00:34,316 --> 00:00:36,516 Speaker 1: and girls to learn how to code by the year 5 00:00:36,596 --> 00:00:39,556 Speaker 1: twenty thirty. I'm the Good is about coding. At the 6 00:00:39,596 --> 00:00:42,556 Speaker 1: same time, it's about giving women and girls power to 7 00:00:42,596 --> 00:00:46,436 Speaker 1: go and change their lives. In this episode, Jacob Weisberg 8 00:00:46,556 --> 00:00:51,276 Speaker 1: is in conversation with technologist and activist maryam jam So, 9 00:00:51,476 --> 00:00:56,556 Speaker 1: think of everything you've ever done on a computer, searching, sending, playing, paying, 10 00:00:57,196 --> 00:01:00,956 Speaker 1: and think of the role computers play in medicine, in science, 11 00:01:00,996 --> 00:01:05,516 Speaker 1: and transportation. None of this could happen without software, and 12 00:01:05,716 --> 00:01:11,276 Speaker 1: software basically is code. Coder might be quiet, but they're powerful. 13 00:01:11,876 --> 00:01:14,316 Speaker 1: Now you probably know about the gender gaps in the 14 00:01:14,356 --> 00:01:18,876 Speaker 1: field of health and education, and in economic and political opportunity, 15 00:01:19,316 --> 00:01:22,676 Speaker 1: as well as security and just well being. You know 16 00:01:22,756 --> 00:01:26,676 Speaker 1: about them because you personally experience those gaps, or maybe 17 00:01:26,716 --> 00:01:28,636 Speaker 1: you're just one of the lucky ones who have heard 18 00:01:28,636 --> 00:01:33,196 Speaker 1: about them well. The Rockefella Foundation has also gathered comprehensive 19 00:01:33,276 --> 00:01:38,316 Speaker 1: data documenting a digital gender gap and estimated two hundred 20 00:01:38,436 --> 00:01:42,796 Speaker 1: million fewer women are online compared to men. In June 21 00:01:42,876 --> 00:01:47,596 Speaker 1: twenty eighteen, GSMA, which reports on the mobile industry, published 22 00:01:47,676 --> 00:01:52,756 Speaker 1: data on the gender inequality in mobile technology aka the 23 00:01:52,836 --> 00:01:55,836 Speaker 1: way most of us around the world access the Internet. 24 00:01:56,516 --> 00:01:59,436 Speaker 1: Women on average are twenty six percent less likely to 25 00:01:59,556 --> 00:02:03,076 Speaker 1: use mobile internet than men, especially in low and middle 26 00:02:03,116 --> 00:02:07,436 Speaker 1: income countries and who makes the Internet well here in 27 00:02:07,476 --> 00:02:10,076 Speaker 1: the US. In twenty sixteen, Google we found that black 28 00:02:10,116 --> 00:02:13,556 Speaker 1: and Hispanic students were one point five and one point 29 00:02:13,596 --> 00:02:16,996 Speaker 1: seven times more likely to have an interest in learning 30 00:02:16,996 --> 00:02:20,676 Speaker 1: computer science, but they're the very ones who are less 31 00:02:20,676 --> 00:02:24,476 Speaker 1: likely to have access to those resources. Two thirds of 32 00:02:24,476 --> 00:02:28,156 Speaker 1: white students report using computers at home, whereas only half 33 00:02:28,196 --> 00:02:31,476 Speaker 1: of black and Hispanic students do so. If you're female, 34 00:02:31,516 --> 00:02:35,476 Speaker 1: if you grew up disadvantaged, it's tough to maneuver yourself 35 00:02:35,556 --> 00:02:39,396 Speaker 1: into the important and ever expanding world that is coding, 36 00:02:40,076 --> 00:02:42,956 Speaker 1: that is basically making computers do what we want them 37 00:02:42,956 --> 00:02:48,316 Speaker 1: to do. That is until maryam came along. Maryam Dam 38 00:02:48,556 --> 00:02:51,756 Speaker 1: knows what it's like to go from being powerless to powerful. 39 00:02:52,316 --> 00:02:56,676 Speaker 1: Her life is pretty extraordinary. Today, she's a pioneer in 40 00:02:56,716 --> 00:02:59,516 Speaker 1: system change and was named a Young Global Leader of 41 00:02:59,556 --> 00:03:03,636 Speaker 1: the World Economic Forum for her work supporting women and girls, 42 00:03:04,316 --> 00:03:07,076 Speaker 1: but all of that came after she was abandoned as 43 00:03:07,076 --> 00:03:10,396 Speaker 1: a child in rural Senegal, before being raped at eleven 44 00:03:10,516 --> 00:03:13,916 Speaker 1: years old and traffic to France, where the abuse continued. 45 00:03:14,836 --> 00:03:17,636 Speaker 1: Mariam made her way to England and at sixteen years old, 46 00:03:17,676 --> 00:03:20,476 Speaker 1: she used a local library to teach herself how to 47 00:03:20,556 --> 00:03:24,756 Speaker 1: read and write. She eventually became a technologist and quickly 48 00:03:24,836 --> 00:03:28,476 Speaker 1: understood the power that that held. She sees her life 49 00:03:28,476 --> 00:03:32,116 Speaker 1: now as a roadmap for other young girls. Jacob and 50 00:03:32,196 --> 00:03:34,836 Speaker 1: Mariam get into that and it is so much more too. 51 00:03:34,836 --> 00:03:37,276 Speaker 1: So enjoy this conversation and I'll see you on the 52 00:03:37,276 --> 00:03:43,036 Speaker 1: other side. Mary. But obviously your effort to teach girls 53 00:03:43,116 --> 00:03:47,036 Speaker 1: to code reflects your own experience. I wonder if you 54 00:03:47,076 --> 00:03:49,076 Speaker 1: can tell me a little bit about how you came 55 00:03:49,076 --> 00:03:53,116 Speaker 1: to this idea. I am from Senegal, West Africa. That's 56 00:03:53,156 --> 00:03:55,036 Speaker 1: where I was born. When I was growing up, I 57 00:03:55,076 --> 00:03:57,196 Speaker 1: didn't have any education, so I didn't go to school. 58 00:03:58,236 --> 00:04:00,636 Speaker 1: I couldn't read and write until I was sixteen years old, 59 00:04:00,956 --> 00:04:04,276 Speaker 1: and when I was eleven years old, I was abused 60 00:04:04,316 --> 00:04:07,236 Speaker 1: by my colonic teaching. My country is a Muslim country, 61 00:04:07,396 --> 00:04:10,236 Speaker 1: so when I was thirteen years old. I was trafficked 62 00:04:10,236 --> 00:04:13,116 Speaker 1: from Senegal to France and I ended up in the UK. 63 00:04:13,636 --> 00:04:15,516 Speaker 1: So I used to do cleaning jobs and working in 64 00:04:15,636 --> 00:04:18,636 Speaker 1: bars and hotels. I see people in suit and things 65 00:04:18,636 --> 00:04:20,676 Speaker 1: like that, and I wanted to find a job. And 66 00:04:21,196 --> 00:04:23,516 Speaker 1: I remember the you know, some of the ladies were 67 00:04:23,556 --> 00:04:25,356 Speaker 1: telling me, you know, we can't find your job because 68 00:04:25,356 --> 00:04:27,916 Speaker 1: you don't have any skills. We can't put you in banks, 69 00:04:28,076 --> 00:04:30,836 Speaker 1: or we can't put you, you know, in supermarkets things 70 00:04:30,876 --> 00:04:33,636 Speaker 1: like that, because you need to communicate. Also you need 71 00:04:33,676 --> 00:04:36,516 Speaker 1: to speak English. My English was very very broken. And 72 00:04:36,556 --> 00:04:39,756 Speaker 1: then slowly, slowly I started going to local library, start 73 00:04:39,796 --> 00:04:43,076 Speaker 1: learning how to read, and you know, being very disciplined 74 00:04:43,116 --> 00:04:46,556 Speaker 1: and focused, and every day I'll spend two hours at 75 00:04:46,556 --> 00:04:51,236 Speaker 1: the library. And then I started learning mats and how 76 00:04:51,316 --> 00:04:55,356 Speaker 1: to imput data on Excel. I started to learn how 77 00:04:55,396 --> 00:04:58,476 Speaker 1: to code. In that time, Google was born. On their platform, 78 00:04:58,556 --> 00:05:01,436 Speaker 1: they had a blog. People can write and then the 79 00:05:01,516 --> 00:05:03,956 Speaker 1: blog will be converted. You know, you can write some 80 00:05:03,996 --> 00:05:07,436 Speaker 1: texts and the text will be converted into into blog. 81 00:05:07,476 --> 00:05:11,356 Speaker 1: And discover that. In that time, I had had so 82 00:05:11,476 --> 00:05:14,116 Speaker 1: many anger in me and and sow many frustration. I 83 00:05:14,156 --> 00:05:17,116 Speaker 1: was asking myself why I was in the UK, you know, 84 00:05:17,116 --> 00:05:19,556 Speaker 1: why my mum abandoned us as children. So I had 85 00:05:19,596 --> 00:05:23,276 Speaker 1: a lot of ications and then I was looking at 86 00:05:23,316 --> 00:05:26,316 Speaker 1: BBC and TV and all these channels, and then I 87 00:05:26,396 --> 00:05:31,396 Speaker 1: just saw Bob Geldof and Bono doing the doing the 88 00:05:31,516 --> 00:05:34,396 Speaker 1: live aid things. That just really makes me very upset. 89 00:05:34,476 --> 00:05:36,876 Speaker 1: And I think that the way they came about was like, 90 00:05:36,956 --> 00:05:39,436 Speaker 1: you know, okay, we are the saviors of Africa. We're 91 00:05:39,436 --> 00:05:42,076 Speaker 1: going to save the whole world. You were upset because 92 00:05:42,116 --> 00:05:44,796 Speaker 1: it was it seemed condescending. You. Yeah, it was really 93 00:05:44,796 --> 00:05:47,876 Speaker 1: weird because I saw that, you know, like everybody was 94 00:05:47,916 --> 00:05:50,236 Speaker 1: talking about poverty. And then I said, well, you know, 95 00:05:50,836 --> 00:05:53,476 Speaker 1: actually I was this sort of I was the young 96 00:05:53,556 --> 00:05:56,116 Speaker 1: women in Africa growing up and you didn't do anything 97 00:05:56,116 --> 00:05:58,356 Speaker 1: about it, and you know, it wasn't their fault really, 98 00:05:58,396 --> 00:06:01,676 Speaker 1: but I think people could understand my frustration. And then 99 00:06:01,716 --> 00:06:04,996 Speaker 1: I wrote a an open letter to Bono and Bob 100 00:06:04,996 --> 00:06:08,156 Speaker 1: Geldof for the first time and asked them to back 101 00:06:08,196 --> 00:06:10,676 Speaker 1: off from Africa. You wrote to them just to make 102 00:06:10,716 --> 00:06:13,836 Speaker 1: this clear on the blog that you created after teaching 103 00:06:13,836 --> 00:06:16,716 Speaker 1: yourself to read and write, teaching yourself to code, and 104 00:06:16,756 --> 00:06:21,436 Speaker 1: building yourself at a public library. Yeah, my first open 105 00:06:21,516 --> 00:06:24,236 Speaker 1: letter was to Bob Geldof and Bono. You were just 106 00:06:24,276 --> 00:06:26,636 Speaker 1: asking them to back off from Africa. And then the 107 00:06:26,716 --> 00:06:29,396 Speaker 1: Guardian pick it up, show it to Bob Geldoff. He 108 00:06:29,436 --> 00:06:32,396 Speaker 1: didn't like it. You know, Bono didn't like it either, 109 00:06:32,476 --> 00:06:35,796 Speaker 1: and they thought that I was very ungrateful as an African. Anyway, 110 00:06:35,796 --> 00:06:38,396 Speaker 1: that created a conversation and then you know, in the 111 00:06:38,556 --> 00:06:41,396 Speaker 1: end they actually saw, you know my point, and that 112 00:06:41,436 --> 00:06:45,716 Speaker 1: created a One International, which is now Bono's organization. I 113 00:06:45,796 --> 00:06:47,876 Speaker 1: got called to come in and find a way to 114 00:06:47,876 --> 00:06:51,796 Speaker 1: help them understand that the message they're trying to portray 115 00:06:51,876 --> 00:06:54,196 Speaker 1: in Europe is to too different to what's happening on 116 00:06:54,276 --> 00:06:59,116 Speaker 1: the ground. It's such an amazing story that after suffering 117 00:06:59,236 --> 00:07:05,676 Speaker 1: this abuse and neglect, lack of education sixteen, you taught 118 00:07:05,716 --> 00:07:09,996 Speaker 1: yourself to do all of these things that people with 119 00:07:10,156 --> 00:07:13,396 Speaker 1: tremendous opportunities in many cases haven't haven't learned to do, 120 00:07:13,476 --> 00:07:16,116 Speaker 1: such as coding the way you have. I mean, it 121 00:07:16,196 --> 00:07:19,636 Speaker 1: raises the question, marm, whether you're just an extraordinary person 122 00:07:20,276 --> 00:07:22,396 Speaker 1: or whether you're a model that a lot of other 123 00:07:23,396 --> 00:07:26,596 Speaker 1: poor people can follow. I get to ask that question. 124 00:07:26,796 --> 00:07:29,636 Speaker 1: I don't think I'm special, but I think that the 125 00:07:29,916 --> 00:07:33,236 Speaker 1: trauma I've lived as a child, you know, we'll never 126 00:07:33,316 --> 00:07:36,436 Speaker 1: go away, still is still on me. And I see 127 00:07:36,476 --> 00:07:39,196 Speaker 1: that with young girls growing up in refuge comes. For example, 128 00:07:39,836 --> 00:07:42,916 Speaker 1: when you've been through difficulty in life and you've been 129 00:07:42,956 --> 00:07:46,676 Speaker 1: through trauma, you try to find a way to get by. 130 00:07:46,796 --> 00:07:49,716 Speaker 1: And this is the mentality I have now, where I 131 00:07:49,836 --> 00:07:52,476 Speaker 1: leave day by day. Every days it is another day, 132 00:07:52,636 --> 00:07:55,156 Speaker 1: and I just think that, you know, I become very 133 00:07:55,196 --> 00:07:59,756 Speaker 1: tenacious in getting things done. Why the focus on coding 134 00:07:59,956 --> 00:08:05,916 Speaker 1: as the skill that can provide this vehicle, particularly for girls, 135 00:08:06,036 --> 00:08:09,116 Speaker 1: to get out of their terrible circumstances. I mean, presumably 136 00:08:09,276 --> 00:08:11,956 Speaker 1: there are lots of skills you could learn as a 137 00:08:12,236 --> 00:08:15,516 Speaker 1: young person that would help you out of poverty, help 138 00:08:15,596 --> 00:08:19,796 Speaker 1: give you access to power, to the wider world. It 139 00:08:19,916 --> 00:08:23,516 Speaker 1: started when I started to learn match at the library 140 00:08:23,556 --> 00:08:28,196 Speaker 1: and then starting reading dictionaries and understanding words, because bear 141 00:08:28,236 --> 00:08:30,116 Speaker 1: in mind, when I came to the UK, I couldn't 142 00:08:30,156 --> 00:08:33,276 Speaker 1: understand English, I couldn't decode the information, and so you 143 00:08:33,276 --> 00:08:35,116 Speaker 1: could put words in front of me, I wouldn't really 144 00:08:35,156 --> 00:08:38,836 Speaker 1: understand them. I used to pick up books with numbers 145 00:08:38,916 --> 00:08:42,636 Speaker 1: and I start coding really using XHML was from the 146 00:08:42,636 --> 00:08:45,116 Speaker 1: beginning because I could put some numbers and then it 147 00:08:45,116 --> 00:08:48,036 Speaker 1: will translate on a page. And then I think that 148 00:08:48,076 --> 00:08:49,836 Speaker 1: what I'm trying to do now is trying to talk 149 00:08:49,836 --> 00:08:53,516 Speaker 1: to girls about digital skills and many many of the 150 00:08:53,556 --> 00:08:56,156 Speaker 1: applications we use around the world, for example, people don't 151 00:08:56,156 --> 00:08:58,916 Speaker 1: know how it was made. And I've been always fascinated 152 00:08:58,956 --> 00:09:02,196 Speaker 1: in how things are made and designed, and you know 153 00:09:02,236 --> 00:09:05,756 Speaker 1: who is behind the things doing things. And I like 154 00:09:05,876 --> 00:09:08,836 Speaker 1: to see things being translated in numbers, but also being 155 00:09:08,876 --> 00:09:13,316 Speaker 1: translated inwards. And I see this with refugees now in city, 156 00:09:13,316 --> 00:09:16,516 Speaker 1: and refugees and people in Lebanon, for example, when you 157 00:09:16,556 --> 00:09:20,156 Speaker 1: are poor or you've been traumatized you are, you consume 158 00:09:20,276 --> 00:09:23,236 Speaker 1: information very very quickly. So I have a photographic memory 159 00:09:23,236 --> 00:09:26,836 Speaker 1: where I don't forget things. Although that combination have helped 160 00:09:26,876 --> 00:09:29,756 Speaker 1: me to learn how to code seven code in languages 161 00:09:29,796 --> 00:09:31,996 Speaker 1: in two years. And then I had to go back 162 00:09:32,036 --> 00:09:33,956 Speaker 1: to the agency to tell them, actually, now I'm a 163 00:09:34,036 --> 00:09:38,756 Speaker 1: couda and lady didn't understand what I was saying. So 164 00:09:39,036 --> 00:09:41,116 Speaker 1: now I'm a couda and I build a website and 165 00:09:41,156 --> 00:09:44,836 Speaker 1: I'm a full stack developer. I really like numbers in wards. 166 00:09:45,836 --> 00:09:49,236 Speaker 1: Your organization has the very suggestive and interesting name I 167 00:09:49,316 --> 00:09:52,676 Speaker 1: Am the Code, which I guess speaks to that pride 168 00:09:52,716 --> 00:09:55,356 Speaker 1: in learning it. But also, you know, we use the 169 00:09:55,396 --> 00:09:58,436 Speaker 1: expression cracking the code when you figure something out, and 170 00:09:58,476 --> 00:10:02,636 Speaker 1: it's not just learning to program and write software, but 171 00:10:02,796 --> 00:10:05,356 Speaker 1: figuring out this larger code of how the world works. 172 00:10:05,356 --> 00:10:08,556 Speaker 1: Am I reading too much into the name of your organization? No, No, 173 00:10:08,556 --> 00:10:10,476 Speaker 1: you're absolutely right, But I think there was something else 174 00:10:10,476 --> 00:10:13,036 Speaker 1: about it, because I think what happened is during the years, 175 00:10:13,636 --> 00:10:17,316 Speaker 1: I was called to give, you know, a major speech 176 00:10:17,356 --> 00:10:20,076 Speaker 1: at Davos, and I was very very nervous, and I 177 00:10:20,116 --> 00:10:22,396 Speaker 1: didn't know what to do and what to say. I've 178 00:10:22,436 --> 00:10:25,516 Speaker 1: never met those influential, powerful people before. And then I 179 00:10:25,876 --> 00:10:27,716 Speaker 1: said to my son, you know, what do you think 180 00:10:27,756 --> 00:10:29,796 Speaker 1: I should say? My son said, well, mommy, you are 181 00:10:29,836 --> 00:10:34,116 Speaker 1: the code. And what I translated from that conversation was, 182 00:10:34,796 --> 00:10:37,556 Speaker 1: you know, I'm tenacious. I don't give up, you know, 183 00:10:37,636 --> 00:10:41,596 Speaker 1: despite all the timultuous childhood I had, I don't give up. 184 00:10:41,636 --> 00:10:44,196 Speaker 1: And then despite that, I'm helping all the young women 185 00:10:44,516 --> 00:10:48,916 Speaker 1: to get confidence. And that then created a massive conversation 186 00:10:48,956 --> 00:10:52,236 Speaker 1: at Davos because I was the first senegalist woman to 187 00:10:52,276 --> 00:10:55,036 Speaker 1: teach white middle class women in Guildford where I leave 188 00:10:55,036 --> 00:10:57,356 Speaker 1: how to code, and now we have many, many women 189 00:10:57,436 --> 00:11:00,396 Speaker 1: coding there. But what I'm saying is that yes, you 190 00:11:00,436 --> 00:11:02,116 Speaker 1: are the code. You can learn how to code, but 191 00:11:02,196 --> 00:11:05,156 Speaker 1: at the same time, you have the key to unlucky 192 00:11:05,156 --> 00:11:08,276 Speaker 1: your life. You have the key to build your life. 193 00:11:08,276 --> 00:11:11,516 Speaker 1: Despite you know all the challenges and all the difficulty, 194 00:11:12,156 --> 00:11:15,116 Speaker 1: you can get this key and go in and open 195 00:11:15,156 --> 00:11:17,916 Speaker 1: the doors for yourself and for other people. So I 196 00:11:17,916 --> 00:11:19,996 Speaker 1: am the code is about coding at the same time, 197 00:11:20,036 --> 00:11:23,436 Speaker 1: it's about giving women and girls power to go and 198 00:11:23,516 --> 00:11:28,756 Speaker 1: change their lives. Software has traditionally been dominated by men, 199 00:11:28,876 --> 00:11:33,156 Speaker 1: and so many of the issues we're seeing now around 200 00:11:33,196 --> 00:11:40,716 Speaker 1: harassment and abuse online around software encoding discrimination seems to 201 00:11:40,756 --> 00:11:45,076 Speaker 1: reflect to some extent that it's men who've written most 202 00:11:45,116 --> 00:11:47,396 Speaker 1: of it. Do you see that as part of the 203 00:11:47,436 --> 00:11:52,636 Speaker 1: problem you're addressing by bringing women into coding and software design. 204 00:11:53,036 --> 00:11:56,116 Speaker 1: That's true, men men have done that, But I think also, 205 00:11:56,676 --> 00:11:58,596 Speaker 1: you know, women used to crack the code, and they 206 00:11:58,676 --> 00:12:01,836 Speaker 1: used to decode information, but it never had any visibility 207 00:12:02,516 --> 00:12:05,156 Speaker 1: or any credit given to them. For many, many years, 208 00:12:05,436 --> 00:12:09,716 Speaker 1: we had many women inventors who understood mathematics, centers, science, 209 00:12:10,356 --> 00:12:13,556 Speaker 1: they understood so many you know, how the world was functioning. 210 00:12:13,636 --> 00:12:15,516 Speaker 1: They actually, you know, if you just look at the 211 00:12:15,556 --> 00:12:18,996 Speaker 1: GPS was invented by by a woman. But I think 212 00:12:19,036 --> 00:12:23,556 Speaker 1: sometimes we just forgot those stories and those inventors who 213 00:12:23,676 --> 00:12:26,276 Speaker 1: have helped us become who we are today. You know, 214 00:12:26,276 --> 00:12:29,956 Speaker 1: we're not giving confidence to young women to go for it, 215 00:12:30,036 --> 00:12:32,996 Speaker 1: not just you know, because they can, but also women 216 00:12:33,116 --> 00:12:36,876 Speaker 1: have more empathy, They have more compassion and kindness when 217 00:12:36,876 --> 00:12:41,236 Speaker 1: they're designing solutions because they design solutions for their communities 218 00:12:41,276 --> 00:12:44,556 Speaker 1: and for you know, the real problems. Men they design 219 00:12:44,636 --> 00:12:46,596 Speaker 1: things because they you know, it's kinde of like cool, 220 00:12:46,676 --> 00:12:49,076 Speaker 1: and they can make money or they can just launch 221 00:12:49,116 --> 00:12:52,876 Speaker 1: an ip O very quickly. But you know, women design 222 00:12:52,996 --> 00:12:55,476 Speaker 1: things to you know, to help their communities and help 223 00:12:55,556 --> 00:12:59,276 Speaker 1: their friends. That's what I saw my young women actually doing. 224 00:13:00,316 --> 00:13:03,116 Speaker 1: And it's one thing to try to teach women to 225 00:13:03,396 --> 00:13:05,876 Speaker 1: code and Guildford. It's another thing to try to teach 226 00:13:06,236 --> 00:13:10,556 Speaker 1: young women to code and sanegal example, there must be 227 00:13:10,636 --> 00:13:13,756 Speaker 1: a lot of obstacles to trying to set up and 228 00:13:13,756 --> 00:13:15,916 Speaker 1: communicate what we're trying to communicate in some of the 229 00:13:15,956 --> 00:13:18,316 Speaker 1: places you're trying to do it, can you talk about 230 00:13:18,436 --> 00:13:21,116 Speaker 1: some of those challenges. That's very true. We have a 231 00:13:21,116 --> 00:13:23,916 Speaker 1: lot of challenges where the women we have in Guiltful 232 00:13:23,956 --> 00:13:26,556 Speaker 1: are totally different through women we have in the refugee 233 00:13:26,556 --> 00:13:29,756 Speaker 1: campaign Kenya in Senegal. But I would have learned during 234 00:13:29,756 --> 00:13:32,596 Speaker 1: the last three years is that it's not a location problem. 235 00:13:32,836 --> 00:13:35,876 Speaker 1: Is actually the all smart young women who wants to 236 00:13:35,956 --> 00:13:39,196 Speaker 1: learn a different skill. So we have changed the world 237 00:13:39,276 --> 00:13:42,276 Speaker 1: coding to digital skills. For example, we are helping young 238 00:13:42,316 --> 00:13:46,196 Speaker 1: women to become digitally intelligent. They know how Instagram was crazy, 239 00:13:46,316 --> 00:13:49,316 Speaker 1: how Facebook was created, and we help them get into 240 00:13:49,356 --> 00:13:52,876 Speaker 1: the information where they know how actually the solution we're created. 241 00:13:53,276 --> 00:13:55,836 Speaker 1: And I think that if we start giving young women 242 00:13:55,916 --> 00:13:59,436 Speaker 1: and girls the power to understand, you know, how wire 243 00:13:59,516 --> 00:14:02,676 Speaker 1: frames are made and how things are written the code 244 00:14:02,676 --> 00:14:04,676 Speaker 1: behind is how to edit it and have to review 245 00:14:04,716 --> 00:14:07,316 Speaker 1: the code and how to make it more empattiic for example, 246 00:14:07,916 --> 00:14:10,436 Speaker 1: or how the AI, how the data was collected and 247 00:14:10,796 --> 00:14:15,236 Speaker 1: who is involved. We're now in sixty four countries. I've 248 00:14:15,236 --> 00:14:18,796 Speaker 1: seen so many young women and girls and it's really 249 00:14:18,836 --> 00:14:22,316 Speaker 1: not a location problem, but it's a systematic problem. And 250 00:14:22,356 --> 00:14:25,756 Speaker 1: that's why go in and teaching young women goes mathematics 251 00:14:25,756 --> 00:14:29,756 Speaker 1: and basic science and helping them understand the global issues 252 00:14:29,756 --> 00:14:33,036 Speaker 1: like climate change, gender equality. You know, how do you 253 00:14:33,076 --> 00:14:36,156 Speaker 1: read this inequality? And how do you get a bank account? 254 00:14:36,196 --> 00:14:38,996 Speaker 1: Things like that helps a young woman to become very 255 00:14:39,036 --> 00:14:43,596 Speaker 1: powerful because she knows she's participating. That's how she changed 256 00:14:43,636 --> 00:14:47,796 Speaker 1: her community, changed her lives, and then there's less abuse 257 00:14:47,876 --> 00:14:51,836 Speaker 1: for example, and she's very very confident afterward. I think 258 00:14:51,876 --> 00:14:55,396 Speaker 1: the training sessions you run are open to boys as well, 259 00:14:55,476 --> 00:14:58,716 Speaker 1: although maybe they're more girls than boys. Is there a 260 00:14:58,756 --> 00:15:04,476 Speaker 1: difference in trying to teach girls or teach boys to code? No, no, 261 00:15:04,516 --> 00:15:06,876 Speaker 1: there's not a big difference. The reason why we want 262 00:15:06,876 --> 00:15:09,356 Speaker 1: you to include some of the boys because we when 263 00:15:09,396 --> 00:15:10,956 Speaker 1: we set up I AM the Code and the mission 264 00:15:11,076 --> 00:15:14,116 Speaker 1: was to actually get one million women and girls coders. 265 00:15:14,116 --> 00:15:16,516 Speaker 1: And we find out that when we're doing the clubs, 266 00:15:16,636 --> 00:15:18,476 Speaker 1: boys want to be part of it. And if you 267 00:15:18,516 --> 00:15:22,636 Speaker 1: look into some Muslim countries like in Afghanistan, in Senegal, 268 00:15:22,796 --> 00:15:26,476 Speaker 1: in Sudan for example, we need to get the boys involved. 269 00:15:26,676 --> 00:15:30,596 Speaker 1: And in Mali in his chair because despite us going 270 00:15:30,636 --> 00:15:33,316 Speaker 1: and teaching girls how to code, there are some social 271 00:15:33,356 --> 00:15:36,556 Speaker 1: issues where the young woman is still, you know, look 272 00:15:36,636 --> 00:15:40,276 Speaker 1: down to you know, the parents are not very confident 273 00:15:40,276 --> 00:15:42,876 Speaker 1: in letting them go. So we get the young boys, 274 00:15:43,316 --> 00:15:45,436 Speaker 1: you know, who are almost like their brothers and their 275 00:15:45,436 --> 00:15:48,116 Speaker 1: cousins to be part of the clubs and then support 276 00:15:48,156 --> 00:15:50,476 Speaker 1: the young women to be part of it. In Senegal, 277 00:15:50,716 --> 00:15:52,476 Speaker 1: we had to get some of the boys to come 278 00:15:52,516 --> 00:15:55,796 Speaker 1: and support the young women. And we respect the culture 279 00:15:55,876 --> 00:15:58,276 Speaker 1: of the countries, but it's very important with his young 280 00:15:58,316 --> 00:16:01,236 Speaker 1: boys gender equality and how to be kind to young 281 00:16:01,396 --> 00:16:04,476 Speaker 1: women and girls, and then they usually work together. We 282 00:16:04,516 --> 00:16:05,956 Speaker 1: just want to make sure that we create at a 283 00:16:05,956 --> 00:16:08,716 Speaker 1: bit of balance but also help young boys to be 284 00:16:08,756 --> 00:16:10,796 Speaker 1: part of that. I am the Coode movement because I 285 00:16:10,836 --> 00:16:14,036 Speaker 1: believe that the only way we can achieve gender equality 286 00:16:14,196 --> 00:16:18,996 Speaker 1: is by educating boys and men to understand women issues. 287 00:16:19,996 --> 00:16:22,636 Speaker 1: Some of the people you've taught have already started to 288 00:16:22,676 --> 00:16:25,996 Speaker 1: have meaningful success in their careers and some of them 289 00:16:26,076 --> 00:16:30,716 Speaker 1: are becoming entrepreneurs. Is that part of your mission? Are 290 00:16:30,756 --> 00:16:34,076 Speaker 1: you helping to coach people to start their own businesses, 291 00:16:34,116 --> 00:16:37,356 Speaker 1: to start their own organizations? Yeah? When we have women 292 00:16:37,396 --> 00:16:43,116 Speaker 1: millionnaires in Senegal, so we have amazing young women who 293 00:16:43,156 --> 00:16:46,436 Speaker 1: are now entrepreneurs. They're doing amazing. Well in their countries, 294 00:16:46,556 --> 00:16:50,316 Speaker 1: they're building solutions, They're sitting government for example, they sit 295 00:16:50,356 --> 00:16:53,156 Speaker 1: in telecom companies. You know, some of our young girls 296 00:16:53,156 --> 00:16:55,716 Speaker 1: are our mothers. The children are now coming back to 297 00:16:55,756 --> 00:16:57,876 Speaker 1: the I Am the Code program that I Am the 298 00:16:57,916 --> 00:17:00,476 Speaker 1: Code idea has been cooking for the last five years 299 00:17:00,836 --> 00:17:02,956 Speaker 1: and beyond that. So all the young women have been 300 00:17:02,956 --> 00:17:06,516 Speaker 1: mentoring for the last ten years have now become you 301 00:17:06,556 --> 00:17:08,556 Speaker 1: know that I AM the Code ambassadors. They're taking I 302 00:17:08,556 --> 00:17:12,556 Speaker 1: Am the Code their communities. He has almost become this family. 303 00:17:12,636 --> 00:17:15,236 Speaker 1: Now people are paying back and giving back to the 304 00:17:15,276 --> 00:17:18,956 Speaker 1: community and they're now building their businesses. Who are really 305 00:17:18,996 --> 00:17:22,476 Speaker 1: really important for the Africa tech ecosystem because in the past, 306 00:17:22,516 --> 00:17:25,916 Speaker 1: we didn't think about women as agent of change or 307 00:17:26,196 --> 00:17:30,996 Speaker 1: agent of economic development. But we fought many African women 308 00:17:31,116 --> 00:17:34,796 Speaker 1: and young women were seen as object of development. You know, 309 00:17:34,836 --> 00:17:39,316 Speaker 1: the NGOs just giving handout and helping them with agriculture 310 00:17:39,316 --> 00:17:42,516 Speaker 1: programs things like that. But now the women actually designing 311 00:17:42,556 --> 00:17:46,276 Speaker 1: their own e commerce sides. They're designing their own solutions 312 00:17:46,276 --> 00:17:50,076 Speaker 1: in Senegal, in Kenya, for example, their climate change activists, 313 00:17:50,356 --> 00:17:53,836 Speaker 1: they're using technology to create campaigns. For example, one of 314 00:17:53,876 --> 00:17:56,596 Speaker 1: our young women in Kenya has a lot of work 315 00:17:56,636 --> 00:18:00,236 Speaker 1: on deforestation. So the idea really is to use technology 316 00:18:00,316 --> 00:18:02,476 Speaker 1: as a way of empowering this young women and girls, 317 00:18:03,236 --> 00:18:05,916 Speaker 1: but at the same time teaching them skills that will 318 00:18:05,956 --> 00:18:09,396 Speaker 1: give them job, give them money, and ultimately, you know, 319 00:18:09,436 --> 00:18:12,196 Speaker 1: they become very proud of themselves. That's that's the goal 320 00:18:12,196 --> 00:18:15,116 Speaker 1: of I Am the Coode. You talk about teaching a 321 00:18:15,236 --> 00:18:18,876 Speaker 1: million girls to code by twenty thirty in just a decade. 322 00:18:18,876 --> 00:18:21,156 Speaker 1: How are you doing on that goal and how realistic 323 00:18:21,316 --> 00:18:24,836 Speaker 1: is that? Oh, it's very realistic. We've done so far. 324 00:18:24,996 --> 00:18:27,276 Speaker 1: Fourteen thousand young women and girls are part of the 325 00:18:27,276 --> 00:18:30,116 Speaker 1: I Am the Code program and we didn't have any peer, 326 00:18:30,236 --> 00:18:34,476 Speaker 1: any marketing in sixty four countries. It's really overwhelming to 327 00:18:34,516 --> 00:18:38,036 Speaker 1: see how the program has reached so many many women, 328 00:18:38,116 --> 00:18:41,276 Speaker 1: not just in Africa, but across the world in China 329 00:18:41,316 --> 00:18:44,876 Speaker 1: and Japan. Is very large now and it's quite a 330 00:18:44,996 --> 00:18:48,836 Speaker 1: humbling to see young women having their lives changed through 331 00:18:48,876 --> 00:18:52,236 Speaker 1: I Am the Code. I didn't expect that. So fourteen 332 00:18:52,276 --> 00:18:55,076 Speaker 1: thousand to a million, you have, by my calculation, nine 333 00:18:55,116 --> 00:18:58,796 Speaker 1: hundred and eighty six thousand to go. How will you 334 00:18:58,836 --> 00:19:01,516 Speaker 1: finance that? Who will help to support you? In that 335 00:19:01,836 --> 00:19:05,236 Speaker 1: incredibly ambitious goal. We will reach the goal because we 336 00:19:05,276 --> 00:19:08,596 Speaker 1: have over twenty seven companies worldwide who have committed to 337 00:19:08,596 --> 00:19:11,836 Speaker 1: the number of already and so we're working with corporates 338 00:19:11,876 --> 00:19:14,436 Speaker 1: to get their staff members to become volunteers. We have 339 00:19:14,556 --> 00:19:17,676 Speaker 1: women calling us they want to become champions, so they 340 00:19:17,716 --> 00:19:21,196 Speaker 1: want to use their network to help spread the world. 341 00:19:21,236 --> 00:19:23,236 Speaker 1: Like you know, your program is definitely going to help 342 00:19:23,356 --> 00:19:26,556 Speaker 1: us get more visibility out there. And we also have 343 00:19:26,636 --> 00:19:29,396 Speaker 1: digital clubs, we have hackathons, we have you know, so 344 00:19:29,476 --> 00:19:32,036 Speaker 1: many boot camps. People are just joining because they can 345 00:19:32,076 --> 00:19:34,916 Speaker 1: see that it makes sense. So yeah, we have ambitions 346 00:19:34,916 --> 00:19:37,676 Speaker 1: plans this year at the United Nations, but also next year. 347 00:19:37,756 --> 00:19:40,756 Speaker 1: Twenty twenty is a big It's a big milestone for 348 00:19:40,836 --> 00:19:43,316 Speaker 1: us because some of the girls are getting scholarships. Now 349 00:19:43,316 --> 00:19:45,636 Speaker 1: we have young girls actually coming to work for I 350 00:19:45,676 --> 00:19:48,356 Speaker 1: AM the Code where am I No. Listeners are hearing 351 00:19:48,356 --> 00:19:52,396 Speaker 1: you talk and asking what they can do to help 352 00:19:52,436 --> 00:19:56,276 Speaker 1: support your efforts and the goal. Generally, what are some 353 00:19:56,356 --> 00:19:59,156 Speaker 1: of the things that people listening might be able to 354 00:19:59,196 --> 00:20:03,196 Speaker 1: do to advance the goal. They can definitely become mentors 355 00:20:03,236 --> 00:20:05,756 Speaker 1: to the girls, They can become ambassadors of I AM 356 00:20:05,796 --> 00:20:08,716 Speaker 1: the Code, they can run their own hackatons, they can 357 00:20:08,716 --> 00:20:11,636 Speaker 1: provide space for us, they can be part of the 358 00:20:11,916 --> 00:20:14,196 Speaker 1: you know, the movement to get young some of the 359 00:20:14,316 --> 00:20:17,756 Speaker 1: young girls coding. We have many corporate organizations, for example, 360 00:20:17,756 --> 00:20:20,956 Speaker 1: who are giving us space. They're giving us some hours 361 00:20:20,996 --> 00:20:23,916 Speaker 1: to volunteer for I Am the Code, and they're opening 362 00:20:23,956 --> 00:20:26,876 Speaker 1: their offices to have digital club. And they're also traveling 363 00:20:26,876 --> 00:20:28,916 Speaker 1: with us to meet the girls in a most difficult 364 00:20:28,916 --> 00:20:31,996 Speaker 1: places around the world. We are the first organization to 365 00:20:32,116 --> 00:20:35,836 Speaker 1: go into refugee camp in Kenya where the two hundred 366 00:20:35,836 --> 00:20:38,196 Speaker 1: thousand people live in the refugee camp, eighteen thousand of 367 00:20:38,236 --> 00:20:40,076 Speaker 1: them are women and girls, and they are the first 368 00:20:40,756 --> 00:20:42,836 Speaker 1: young women and girls in a refugi camp to learn 369 00:20:42,916 --> 00:20:46,396 Speaker 1: how to code. And we in slams when five us 370 00:20:46,436 --> 00:20:49,756 Speaker 1: in Brazil. We are in places where I grow up 371 00:20:49,796 --> 00:20:52,396 Speaker 1: as a young girl. And the reason why I'm going 372 00:20:52,556 --> 00:20:56,156 Speaker 1: back there is to tell the world that those people 373 00:20:56,476 --> 00:20:59,996 Speaker 1: they matter. By going back and giving holding those young 374 00:21:00,036 --> 00:21:03,756 Speaker 1: girls and helping them to be confident and to also 375 00:21:03,876 --> 00:21:06,956 Speaker 1: gain a skill, I believe that coding is the future. 376 00:21:07,076 --> 00:21:10,196 Speaker 1: If they can decode information and build a website or 377 00:21:10,276 --> 00:21:13,756 Speaker 1: build an app and get some skills to help them 378 00:21:13,876 --> 00:21:18,196 Speaker 1: get money. They wouldn't be trafficked, they wouldn't be young prostitutes, 379 00:21:18,276 --> 00:21:20,636 Speaker 1: they wouldn't be abused because they have to depend on 380 00:21:20,636 --> 00:21:24,196 Speaker 1: someone else. So I'm trying to change society problems at 381 00:21:24,196 --> 00:21:26,916 Speaker 1: the same time giving young women skills so they don't 382 00:21:26,956 --> 00:21:29,876 Speaker 1: end up like myself. And how about here in the 383 00:21:29,956 --> 00:21:32,676 Speaker 1: United States, Mariam, is there a role for your organization 384 00:21:32,716 --> 00:21:35,116 Speaker 1: to play here? Are you active here? We have some 385 00:21:35,556 --> 00:21:37,596 Speaker 1: major banks who won't support I am the Code and 386 00:21:37,636 --> 00:21:39,916 Speaker 1: hopefully we're going to go to deprived communities. Because our 387 00:21:39,956 --> 00:21:43,076 Speaker 1: content is free. People can use them in prisons, they 388 00:21:43,076 --> 00:21:44,876 Speaker 1: can use them in places. In the UK, we go 389 00:21:44,956 --> 00:21:48,596 Speaker 1: to prisons and places where we can rehabilitate people. So 390 00:21:48,636 --> 00:21:51,796 Speaker 1: we're hoping that by the beginning of twenty twenty. I 391 00:21:51,836 --> 00:21:55,636 Speaker 1: am in the United States. Um, it's such an audacious 392 00:21:55,676 --> 00:21:59,676 Speaker 1: idea to say someone who's been a victim of trafficking 393 00:22:00,196 --> 00:22:04,196 Speaker 1: should be writing software. Have you seen other women who 394 00:22:04,316 --> 00:22:06,716 Speaker 1: followed the kind of path that you did and had 395 00:22:06,756 --> 00:22:11,036 Speaker 1: that extraordinary transformation? Yeah, I haven't seen it yet. I've 396 00:22:11,036 --> 00:22:13,756 Speaker 1: seen many women who some women who've been trafficked and 397 00:22:13,796 --> 00:22:15,916 Speaker 1: have difficulty in their life, but mainly they go into 398 00:22:15,956 --> 00:22:18,356 Speaker 1: the activism the world and share their stories with other 399 00:22:18,356 --> 00:22:20,236 Speaker 1: people around the world. But for me, that's not enough, 400 00:22:20,276 --> 00:22:22,716 Speaker 1: and my pioneering system change. That's what I do. I 401 00:22:22,876 --> 00:22:26,156 Speaker 1: change systems in countries and in government. And I believe 402 00:22:26,196 --> 00:22:28,516 Speaker 1: that the reason why I was trafficked from Senegal and 403 00:22:28,556 --> 00:22:31,396 Speaker 1: the reason why my mother actually abandoned us as children, 404 00:22:31,916 --> 00:22:34,356 Speaker 1: and you know, I was abused and rapped by my 405 00:22:34,436 --> 00:22:37,356 Speaker 1: colonic teacher in my country in Senegal and ultimately traffic 406 00:22:37,436 --> 00:22:40,796 Speaker 1: from Senegal is because the system of the country was broken. 407 00:22:40,836 --> 00:22:42,116 Speaker 1: And so what I try to do, if I am 408 00:22:42,116 --> 00:22:43,636 Speaker 1: the code at the same time, is how do you 409 00:22:43,676 --> 00:22:47,236 Speaker 1: fix systems in countries? How do you educate government and 410 00:22:47,316 --> 00:22:50,116 Speaker 1: the private sector to understand that actually, you know, if 411 00:22:50,156 --> 00:22:53,636 Speaker 1: you mess up one child's life, you know, just messing 412 00:22:53,716 --> 00:22:56,316 Speaker 1: up her life, where you're messing up the entire community's life. 413 00:22:56,356 --> 00:22:59,756 Speaker 1: For example, we don't have birth certificate. We totally are 414 00:22:59,796 --> 00:23:02,236 Speaker 1: in conito in Senegal. And I see this today in 415 00:23:02,276 --> 00:23:04,676 Speaker 1: the Refugi camp where you know, the worst is just 416 00:23:04,796 --> 00:23:08,476 Speaker 1: watching things happening to two million, millions of women and 417 00:23:08,516 --> 00:23:12,316 Speaker 1: girls from Senegal to Nepal. So unless someone come up 418 00:23:12,356 --> 00:23:15,836 Speaker 1: with something very ambitious and very ruthless like I am 419 00:23:15,836 --> 00:23:18,596 Speaker 1: the code, nothing will happen, and I've seen change happening 420 00:23:18,676 --> 00:23:23,196 Speaker 1: from Buendis Areas to Senegal just because I dare to 421 00:23:24,156 --> 00:23:26,476 Speaker 1: be visible and I dare to tell the world. If 422 00:23:26,516 --> 00:23:28,676 Speaker 1: you don't want to find out any more women being 423 00:23:28,756 --> 00:23:31,356 Speaker 1: traffic and taken away, you have to change the system 424 00:23:31,396 --> 00:23:32,636 Speaker 1: in the country. You don't want to have any more 425 00:23:32,676 --> 00:23:35,156 Speaker 1: immigrants in Europe or in the United States, change the 426 00:23:35,196 --> 00:23:37,556 Speaker 1: system in their countries, give them the skills, and as 427 00:23:37,596 --> 00:23:39,796 Speaker 1: soon as you do that, they wouldn't need to come here. 428 00:23:39,996 --> 00:23:41,796 Speaker 1: That's why I want the young girls who have the 429 00:23:41,916 --> 00:23:45,196 Speaker 1: skills in their countries and build the businesses in their countries, 430 00:23:45,196 --> 00:23:47,196 Speaker 1: and if they want to travel, they can have they 431 00:23:47,236 --> 00:23:50,076 Speaker 1: can travel in a very legal way without being insulted. 432 00:23:50,196 --> 00:23:53,276 Speaker 1: I'm just trying to fix some of the problems the 433 00:23:53,356 --> 00:23:57,396 Speaker 1: world has failed to fix. Mary. I'm moved by your 434 00:23:57,436 --> 00:24:00,636 Speaker 1: story and inspired by what you're trying to accomplish. Thanks 435 00:24:00,676 --> 00:24:06,556 Speaker 1: for joining us Unsolvable. Thank you for having me. Wow. 436 00:24:06,916 --> 00:24:10,916 Speaker 1: So an incredible personal journey Mariam has made. But to me, 437 00:24:11,316 --> 00:24:13,916 Speaker 1: what is so thrilling to hear about is the scale 438 00:24:13,996 --> 00:24:17,236 Speaker 1: of her ambition and also her belief that other women 439 00:24:17,316 --> 00:24:19,916 Speaker 1: and some men can use tech skills to thrive and 440 00:24:20,076 --> 00:24:23,516 Speaker 1: flourish the way she has. Mariam's a disruptor in the 441 00:24:23,636 --> 00:24:26,756 Speaker 1: best way possible. Okay, I've got to go and write 442 00:24:26,796 --> 00:24:29,636 Speaker 1: a strongly worded blog post bono on Bob Geldoff now, 443 00:24:29,676 --> 00:24:32,556 Speaker 1: and I'd advise you all to do the same or 444 00:24:32,756 --> 00:24:35,596 Speaker 1: maybe more practically. Why don't you see how you can 445 00:24:35,676 --> 00:24:39,836 Speaker 1: get involved in her mission at I Am Thecode dot org. 446 00:24:44,516 --> 00:24:48,956 Speaker 1: Solvable is a collaboration between Pushkin Industries and the Rockefella Foundation, 447 00:24:49,316 --> 00:24:53,436 Speaker 1: with production by Chalk and Blade. Pushkin's executive producer is 448 00:24:53,516 --> 00:24:57,556 Speaker 1: Mia LaBelle. Engineering by Jason Gambrell and the fine folks 449 00:24:57,596 --> 00:25:02,916 Speaker 1: at GSI Studios. Original music composed by Pascal Wise. Special 450 00:25:02,996 --> 00:25:07,356 Speaker 1: thanks to Maggie Taylor, Heather Fain, Julia Barton, Carlie Migliori, 451 00:25:07,756 --> 00:25:11,956 Speaker 1: Sheriff Vincent, Jacob Weisberg, and Malcolm Gladwell. You can learn 452 00:25:12,036 --> 00:25:16,316 Speaker 1: more about solving today's biggest problems at Rockefeller Foundation dot 453 00:25:16,516 --> 00:25:20,956 Speaker 1: org slash solvable. I'm Mave Higgins, Now go solve it.