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Speaker 1: Hey, welcome to episode three fifty two. One of my

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Speaker 1: most favorite episodes. That's this one right here. Joe Galani

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Speaker 1: music executive. Sure sounds cool, but really one of the biggest,

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Speaker 1: most influential ever in the history of country music, if

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Speaker 1: not the most influential ever. He is going into the

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Speaker 1: Country Music Hall of Fame, which is really really hard

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Speaker 1: to get into, even as a massive artist. Also going

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Speaker 1: in this year is Keith Whitley and Jerry Lee Lewis.

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Speaker 1: Like that should tell you. Only three people many people

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Speaker 1: were It's just such a hard thing to get into.

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Speaker 1: But he is, you know, that influential, and so it's

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Speaker 1: just stories about him going wow, yeah, I'm not scared

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Speaker 1: to take it on. Let me see what I can

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Speaker 1: do here. I believe him myself, never done it before,

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Speaker 1: but let's see what happens, and just saying yeah, I'll

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Speaker 1: try it. I mean, it's really cool. It's it's awesome, right,

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Speaker 1: really cool. Like a little bit, I was like, dang,

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Speaker 1: he's too big, too cool to be here in the studio.

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Speaker 1: That's really how I felt. But I like him a

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Speaker 1: whole lot, and I haven't spent a lot of time

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Speaker 1: with him personally, but at the very end of this

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Speaker 1: podcast that do finally tell him and how kind of

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Speaker 1: affected my life here in Nashville. I think he went

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Speaker 1: through way earlier things that I went through way later

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Speaker 1: as far as people go on, wait, you're not just

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Speaker 1: like us, and he just crushed it. So you know,

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Speaker 1: he signed artists like Clinton Black and Kenney Chesney, Sarah Evans,

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Speaker 1: Vince gild The Judge, Martina McBride, Lorie Morgan, Katy I

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Speaker 1: was like carry Underwood, Chris Young. I could go on

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Speaker 1: and on, but just so many things that he talks

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Speaker 1: about here are still happening because he was like, what

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Speaker 1: if we did this and it just worked and he

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Speaker 1: sold anyway, that's the deal. He was like the youngest

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Speaker 1: guy to run a record label back in the day. Right,

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Speaker 1: I don't think I'm making that part up. That is correct,

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Speaker 1: And you know I did a thing where I'm super

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Speaker 1: interested in the acts that he found, and he discovered

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Speaker 1: the ended up being big stars and also his career.

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Speaker 1: So I tried to make it like when I watched

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Speaker 1: like a cool Netflix series and they kind of flashed

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Speaker 1: not around, but they like cut two storylines back and forth.

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Speaker 1: And so we talked about an artist he signed, and

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Speaker 1: then I'm like, all right, so this part of your career,

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Speaker 1: you did that. And I tried to go back and

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Speaker 1: forth a little bit just so it would be engaging

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Speaker 1: to everyone if you want to hear about the artists

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Speaker 1: he signed or his career. So I like it. I'm

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Speaker 1: glad that you're here. This is a big one for

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Speaker 1: us and a big one for me. And I don't

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Speaker 1: think I've screwed it up, which is just a relief

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Speaker 1: because sometimes I'm like, well I screwed that one up.

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Speaker 1: Good enjoy Episode three two. Here you go, Joe, Glani, Joe.

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Speaker 1: We have important people that come by here, but then

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Speaker 1: we have really important people to come by here, and

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Speaker 1: so I don't know what strings. Who got you to

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Speaker 1: come up here? Is my question? Because you know somebody yeah,

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Speaker 1: right there in the mike we're talking to micro How

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Speaker 1: did I? Oh? He did? I've known him forever. So

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Speaker 1: Tom Betchy is, for those listening, one of my managers.

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Speaker 1: I have two managers, and Tom Betchy um is very

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Speaker 1: well connected and obviously Joe to get you up here.

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Speaker 1: So I appreciate you coming up here. That's really nice

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Speaker 1: of you. I'm glad to be here. Yeah, you can

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Speaker 1: pull that down if you'd like. Whenever I saw it's

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Speaker 1: always a big deal. Whenever they announced the Hall of

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Speaker 1: Fame inductees, and I was just looking to see who's

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Speaker 1: gonna make it this year because I know Ronnie and

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Speaker 1: Kicks got in last year, and um, and I saw you,

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Speaker 1: and I was like, holy crap, that's all. I was

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Speaker 1: so excited for you, and I wonder, did you have

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Speaker 1: any idea that you were up for it, that you

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Speaker 1: would probably get it? Like, what did you know before

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Speaker 1: they announced who was going in? I knew I was

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Speaker 1: on the ballot, and um, actually I voted on the

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Speaker 1: first round for what I can say his name, Irving Law.

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Speaker 1: And uh, the second ballot came out and I was

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Speaker 1: removed from the category in terms of being able to vote.

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Speaker 1: And I called Brendon over at the c m A

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Speaker 1: and I said, what's up with that? He said, we

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Speaker 1: can't have you voting for yourself. I said, I wasn't

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Speaker 1: gonna do that, but I completely get it. So whenever

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Speaker 1: they announced that you made it, because you've you've done

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Speaker 1: so much. We're gonna talk about a lot of that.

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Speaker 1: How does it make you feel at this stage of

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Speaker 1: your career to again get probably one of your highest achievements. Um.

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Speaker 1: It's not something that you really ever think about cold

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Speaker 1: because it's such rarefied air that you really don't think

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Speaker 1: you get there, And it's not something that I think

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Speaker 1: most people that go in there really strive for. It

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Speaker 1: just happens so humbled, honored in disbelief. Well, congratulations, that

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Speaker 1: is quite the honor. And again, you've been honored in

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Speaker 1: so many ways over so many years. This has got

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Speaker 1: to be quiet. Maybe refreshing is not the word for you,

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Speaker 1: but I don't know it. It almost probably feels new,

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Speaker 1: like something new for you. I feel like you've done

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Speaker 1: so much well, like to be in a Hall of

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Speaker 1: fame with all these country stars. Like, is there anything

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Speaker 1: that's that's similar to this in your career? No, no, no,

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Speaker 1: no no. I mean when I did the when Ronnie

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Speaker 1: and Kicks hosted the press conference for the nominees UM

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Speaker 1: and I was standing there just before I went up,

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Speaker 1: and I looked on my left and there's Hank Senior

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Speaker 1: into the right as Patsy Klein. I went, what am

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Speaker 1: I doing here? You know, It's just it's that was

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Speaker 1: it really was? You mentioned that and again I can

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Speaker 1: appreciate your humbleness, but what are you doing here? And

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Speaker 1: I can list ten thousand reasons why you are in

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Speaker 1: the Hall of Fame and I've done so much. But

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Speaker 1: I was kind of going over some of your personal history,

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Speaker 1: and that will get to in a second, where you

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Speaker 1: moved from New York down to Nashville and back to

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Speaker 1: New York and back to Nashville. Uh, But I just

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Speaker 1: kind of want to start with some of the acts

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Speaker 1: you've signed and kind of bounced around between your career

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Speaker 1: and the acts that you've signed and what you saw

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Speaker 1: in them early, because there is such a skill, maybe

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Speaker 1: even an instinct, and you can tell me, you know,

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Speaker 1: what part of your talent or or or a gift

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Speaker 1: that you use when finding these great acts. But if

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Speaker 1: we were to talk about Alabama, for example, what did

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Speaker 1: you see in that group that early? Who actually was

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Speaker 1: at the country radio seminar that I saw him for

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Speaker 1: the first time. I'd heard about him several times, and

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Speaker 1: my boss at that time was Jerry Bradley, and unbeknownst

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Speaker 1: to me, he was tracking them at the same time

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Speaker 1: that I was, and I went down it was the

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Speaker 1: you know, the show used to be just one band,

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Speaker 1: and then everybody came up and sang with that one band.

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Speaker 1: So you mean there's like a house band, and then

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Speaker 1: all the artists would come in got it, and so

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Speaker 1: Alabama got up there and it was you know, they

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Speaker 1: didn't use the house band, but they were part of

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Speaker 1: the house band. And I think that's always a tough

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Speaker 1: gig anyhow, you know. I mean it's everybody's sitting out

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Speaker 1: there and you don't quite know what to expect, and

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Speaker 1: you're nervous. But they were natural born entertainers. The harmony

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Speaker 1: was unbelievable over Andy Owen still to this day is

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Speaker 1: one of the greatest country singers we've had. Whenever there's

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Speaker 1: a group like that. And I guess what year one? Okay,

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Speaker 1: so eighty one or so? And what was the wine

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Speaker 1: and dyne process like an eighty one? Or were they?

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Speaker 1: Were they being pursued by multiple labels? I know you

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Speaker 1: said someone else was tracking them as well. I have

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Speaker 1: friends now that are you know that people want to

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Speaker 1: sign a deal and you have five labels coming out

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Speaker 1: of them. They're all promising on things and doing nice things.

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Speaker 1: But what was it like an eighty one? When you

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Speaker 1: find an act that you really like, whereas nobody else

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Speaker 1: pursuing them. They were on a small independent label called

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Speaker 1: M d J and Dale Morris was the manager at

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Speaker 1: that time, and so it really was just a direct

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Speaker 1: negotiation between us. There was no other competition for them.

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Speaker 1: Whenever you sign them, do you say, all right, here's

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Speaker 1: our here's our vision for you? Or was Alabama? So

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Speaker 1: did they know who they were at that point? How

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Speaker 1: how green were they when you signed them? Oh? No,

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Speaker 1: they were not green. I mean from a live standpoint,

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Speaker 1: they were. They were seasoned and they've been doing it

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Speaker 1: a long time, a lot of ships. Yeah, And in

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Speaker 1: terms of vision, I think at that time we didn't

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Speaker 1: know what the word vision meant. It was just we

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Speaker 1: like you. We think you've got the potential and the songs.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, my homes in Alabama, Tennessee River

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Speaker 1: Mountain music feels so I mean, you know, you get

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Speaker 1: the story. It's just it's all there. And they only

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Speaker 1: got better as performers. And one of the first things

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Speaker 1: that we did was we did a tour of rock

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Speaker 1: and roll It's like the bottom Line and the Whiskey

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Speaker 1: out in l a Um and we flew in a

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Speaker 1: bunch of radio people and industry people, and even then

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Speaker 1: people were just going, we've just seen the country beatles,

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Speaker 1: and so it was early on in their career. But

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Speaker 1: the other thing too was Randy Owen, the lead singer

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Speaker 1: UM was probably in another life, one of the best

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Speaker 1: promotion people I've ever seen. He just locked onto both

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Speaker 1: retailers and radio people, anybody he had to know and

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Speaker 1: take care of and make sure that they were doing

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Speaker 1: a good job. He was focused on it. There's no

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Speaker 1: such thing as a slam, donc especially in anything creative. Right.

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Speaker 1: We may think we have it. There have been times

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Speaker 1: the ritten things and I'm like, this is it, and

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Speaker 1: it's not. It's just not. And there are times where

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Speaker 1: it's just a throwaway something where I'm like, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: I'm just gonna and it becomes this wild success when

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Speaker 1: you have something like Alabama uh, an entity like that.

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Speaker 1: What was the first success with that band where you went, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: like I knew they were good, but now we all

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Speaker 1: know they're good and we're here with them, you know,

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Speaker 1: in a business sense, we got to Mountain music. It

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Speaker 1: was all over. But I'll take you back for a moment,

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Speaker 1: because country music at that point was still very much

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Speaker 1: a regional format. You know, we were southeast, midwest, southwest,

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Speaker 1: a little bit of each of the coast in Alabama

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Speaker 1: was the first act where you remember the Tower Record

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Speaker 1: stores where actually went to the meeting with them and

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Speaker 1: they went, what's up with this band? Normally they were

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Speaker 1: inquired that they wanted more about their country section was

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Speaker 1: about seven records deep, and uh, they really were excited

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Speaker 1: about it. So that was one of the first signs

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Speaker 1: that we had that we were kind of getting outside

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Speaker 1: the neighborhood. You grew up in New York and so

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Speaker 1: what town It was actually Queen's Okay, so you archery, archery,

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Speaker 1: Bunky territory, Oh yeah, and da. So when that show

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Speaker 1: was on and it felt like that was happening in

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Speaker 1: your neighborhood, Oh yeah, I mean I could relate because

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Speaker 1: all those houses were built the same. They were all

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Speaker 1: attached row after row of those block after block. So

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Speaker 1: you grow up and what music is influencing you, and

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Speaker 1: you know, the sixties, Stones, Beatles, Dave Clark five, all,

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Speaker 1: you know, anything that was the British invasion was huge

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Speaker 1: at that point. You know, a little Richard, I mean,

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Speaker 1: it was just typical rock and roll. So for you

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Speaker 1: growing up in a time where like even if I

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Speaker 1: look back, I mean that was probably music at its

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Speaker 1: peak right at whenever that I think that culture consumed

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Speaker 1: so much, they owned so much of the market share,

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Speaker 1: we'll call it that. Um, why get into music though professionally?

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Speaker 1: What made you go I gotta do this, not just

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Speaker 1: to let let me get a record and just listen

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Speaker 1: to it and love it. Why why would you want

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Speaker 1: to get into it all the time? Well, I actually

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Speaker 1: when I came out of college, I interviewed with several companies,

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Speaker 1: and our CI as one of the two companies that

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Speaker 1: are from to be a gig. And at that point

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Speaker 1: when I was interviewing, and I was a little too cocky.

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Speaker 1: At that point, I was sitting down. The guy was

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Speaker 1: the head of UH finance and he and I said

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Speaker 1: to him what division because it was our CIA So

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Speaker 1: it was cornet carpet, banquet foods, random House, UM, NBC,

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Speaker 1: and then our CIA Records. And I said, what's our

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Speaker 1: c A Records? He said, what do you mean? I said, Well,

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Speaker 1: I'm an avid collector. I don't have any of yours.

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Speaker 1: I know my labels, and I don't have one of

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Speaker 1: your things. What do you mean? You know, we're very

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Speaker 1: strong and show tunes and we're very strong in classical music.

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Speaker 1: And I'm looking at him, going really, But so I

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Speaker 1: went to work for our ci A and it was

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Speaker 1: not something I was thinking about as a music career.

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Speaker 1: I was just thinking about a career like a job. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm out of school, I got a wife, I got

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Speaker 1: a kid. Let's go. What do you do in school?

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Speaker 1: Like what you're going to college? What do you think

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Speaker 1: you were going to do? I came out. I was

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Speaker 1: looking for business opportunities. So I was a finance major

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Speaker 1: in a marketing minor. So you studied money. He studied marketing.

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Speaker 1: Wasn't so much study anythink about music or Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: played in a band and I was pretty poorer at it,

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Speaker 1: and uh, you know I love music. Listen. I mean

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Speaker 1: I still remember walking around with that transistor radio when

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Speaker 1: we were kids. Just listen to w ABC radio. You

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Speaker 1: go to our CIA in what year sevente and in

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Speaker 1: that three or four years before you come to Nashville, Like,

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Speaker 1: what were your job duties? And my assumption is you

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Speaker 1: climb pretty fast in New York. So what did you

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Speaker 1: start as and what did you end as in New York,

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Speaker 1: I ended up as a product manager, So I had

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Speaker 1: my elite roster at that point because I was the

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Speaker 1: kid that they didn't know a whole lot. They gave

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Speaker 1: me the struggling artist called David Bowie, lou Reid, and

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Speaker 1: several other acts that nobody really remembers at all. And

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Speaker 1: if r c A was like you mentioned, just to

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Speaker 1: paraphrase what you said, like a lot of show tunes. Um,

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Speaker 1: you know David Bowie lou Reid, that's not quite show tunes.

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Speaker 1: Were they going into a new kind of area? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: When I joined, they weren't on a label, and certainly

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Speaker 1: they hadn't succeeded. Um, they had things like the main

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Speaker 1: ingredient at that point and uh Buffalo Springfield for a

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Speaker 1: brief second, you know that kind of it was more

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Speaker 1: one hit Wonders than it was anything else back in

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Speaker 1: So what my assump sho would be is that most

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Speaker 1: country musical was on AM radio. Okay, So why what

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Speaker 1: a fellow like yourself is doing pretty good New York

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Speaker 1: decided to move to Nashville to pursue um a career

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Speaker 1: in a format that's mostly on AM radio. And I'm

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Speaker 1: assuming you didn't grow up around a lot of country music.

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Speaker 1: The only country music I heard was on AM radio.

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Speaker 1: So Johnny Cash, Eddie Arnold, Skeeter Davis that at the

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Speaker 1: crossed I heard it like like a Johnny Cash across. Yeah. Sure,

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Speaker 1: So you moved And how did you get approach about

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Speaker 1: moving to Nashville. Uh? I got called into the opposite

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Speaker 1: of the general manager in the head of human resources

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Speaker 1: and said, we have got a great idea. We think

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Speaker 1: you should move to Nashville. And your initial instinct was hell, no,

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Speaker 1: what what do you what is? What's down there? Why

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Speaker 1: would I want to go down there? I'm here, I'm

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Speaker 1: I'm in New York and uh there. Their instructions to

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Speaker 1: me were, just go down there for two years. I

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Speaker 1: think it'll be a good experience for you. You'll learn

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Speaker 1: the inner workings of a smaller operation, and if you

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Speaker 1: don't like it, you can come back. And so I

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Speaker 1: came down and met with Jerry Bradley downtown at the

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Speaker 1: Hilton Hotel and um, when I got back on the

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Speaker 1: plane and I went home to my wife, I said, well,

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to get that job, because I know

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Speaker 1: I pissed him off. You know, I just we weren't

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Speaker 1: on the same page. So I go into the office.

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Speaker 1: That was a Friday, and I came back to the

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Speaker 1: office on the Monday. They called me in and went,

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Speaker 1: I'm expecting here eight. It's all over and they said

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Speaker 1: he loved you. You're going down. I want what did

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Speaker 1: you tell your wife? Only two years? It's only two years.

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Speaker 1: So do you think they were being truthful when they

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Speaker 1: said go learn it and come back, or do you

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Speaker 1: think they really maybe had you in mind to go

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Speaker 1: down and knack, really make something of it. Now at

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Speaker 1: that point, it was really just go down and see

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Speaker 1: what you can. You know, companies at that point were

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Speaker 1: really a and our entities and there were promotion departments

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Speaker 1: and everything else was at in New York. Um, it

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Speaker 1: really wasn't. It was a small business and people were

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Speaker 1: still learning how to you know, market and develop artists

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Speaker 1: on a national basis for getting international. So you're in

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Speaker 1: your early thirties when you come to Nashville. Um, actually, wow,

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Speaker 1: you're in the early twenties. So you moved down and

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Speaker 1: you're working at our CA. But what is your job

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Speaker 1: when you move here? First? Because I know you're the

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Speaker 1: you know, one of the youngest if not the youngest

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Speaker 1: person to take over a major label. But so you

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Speaker 1: move here in your twenties, what do you do. I

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Speaker 1: had the glorious title of Manager of Administration, which really

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Speaker 1: meant whatever Jerry wanted me to do, I did. But

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Speaker 1: it really was trying to um bring some semblance of

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Speaker 1: order to the various departments, trying to get them involved

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Speaker 1: with the corporation overall of the r c A corporation.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I had been in the company number of years.

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Speaker 1: I had a lot of friends in the promotion department

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Speaker 1: and sales department. So Jerry was, Hey, go up there

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Speaker 1: and meet with them, see what you can do for

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Speaker 1: our records. And that was part of part of what

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Speaker 1: I did when I come back to that in a minute.

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Speaker 1: And that's where we are. You've just arrived in Nashville

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Speaker 1: and you have a job that sounds like I don't

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Speaker 1: know what it is because the words are so vague. Right,

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Speaker 1: You're you're doing it all. Um. Let's move over, Ben

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Speaker 1: and go to another artist. Uh, Kenny Chesney. So you

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Speaker 1: met Kenny around what year? Uh? And what did he

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Speaker 1: have going for him when you met him? Well, the

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Speaker 1: story is Dale Morris. We're coming back to the same person,

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Speaker 1: Dale Morris. I was getting ready to move back to Nashville,

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Speaker 1: front running the company in New York and Dale called

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Speaker 1: me over the weekend instead, I've got this kid, Kenny

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Speaker 1: Chesney said, who's Kenny Chesney. Well, he's on Capricorn. I

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Speaker 1: think you'd really like him. I said, well, send me

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Speaker 1: the record, you know, and we'll have a cover station.

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Speaker 1: So I got the record, and I thought it was

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Speaker 1: interesting in what way as a songwriter. I thought he

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Speaker 1: had a unique perspective. He was a country singer, which

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Speaker 1: at that point, from looking at the roster, we certainly

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Speaker 1: could use a few more of those. And he had

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Speaker 1: been out working the road, you know. I mean he

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Speaker 1: had been working through the whole process. I had a

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Speaker 1: respect for Capricorn Records, and um Dale said, I think

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Speaker 1: I can get him off. So that's what we went

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Speaker 1: down the road. So Capricorn Records. My assumption, as you

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Speaker 1: have never heard of Capricorn, I'm assuming they're not around anymore.

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Speaker 1: Maybe they are Walman Brothers and those kind of guys.

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Speaker 1: That's the Phil Walden was though, the original guy that

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Speaker 1: ran that company. Small. Yeah, so Kenny's on a small

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Speaker 1: independent label and so you guys identify him as someone

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Speaker 1: that you think you could make into a major star.

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Speaker 1: So you have the records, you listen to it. He

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Speaker 1: has an interesting perspective and an interesting way to present things.

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Speaker 1: So you call him up, you go see him. What happens.

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Speaker 1: Actually we met months later in the office and uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, I mean he was young. I mean he

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Speaker 1: came in, you know, it was it was almost like

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Speaker 1: George straight light. I mean he was really trying. I

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Speaker 1: was was the cowboy hat then? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's crazy to think about. Had at Kenny. He's just

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Speaker 1: not that anymore and hasn't been for for a long time.

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Speaker 1: And so he says to you, like, what's what's Kenny

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Speaker 1: Chesney's goal? Because he's on Capricorn and you guys are

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Speaker 1: do you think there's a nice relationship that can happen there?

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Speaker 1: What does Kenny Chesney tell he wants to do with

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Speaker 1: his career at that point, he wants to be one

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Speaker 1: of one of those guys that everybody, you know, Phil

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Speaker 1: small Stadiums weren't in the conversation at that point. So

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Speaker 1: it's Phil Arenas and I want to be one of

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Speaker 1: the biggest stars out there, and I'm sure a lot

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Speaker 1: of people say that. I mean, I think pretty much

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Speaker 1: everybody probably says that I want to be a big star.

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Speaker 1: But why was Kenny different as far as aside from

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Speaker 1: the record that you heard and you thought his presentation

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Speaker 1: was interesting and his songwriting, But why Kenny and why

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Speaker 1: did you think he could be the massive star that

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Speaker 1: he is now? He worked his ass off, and I

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Speaker 1: mean he really whatever he didn't have as a skill

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Speaker 1: as an entertainer or as a writer, he would go

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Speaker 1: out and find those guys and spend the time to learn.

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Speaker 1: I always thought it was interesting he when he was

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Speaker 1: in town, he was always going to see shows, something

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Speaker 1: he continued on much later on. You know, uh he

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Speaker 1: went out and toured with Alabama when he didn't need

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Speaker 1: to tour with Alabama. He'd go out and open for

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Speaker 1: George Jones when he need to open for Georgia. He

396
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Speaker 1: just wanted to learn how do you entertain? What are

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Speaker 1: you doing that makes it so different? And they were,

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Speaker 1: you know, his heroes at the same time. When did

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Speaker 1: Kenny go from being a guy that had some moderate

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Speaker 1: to good radio success to being a superstar in your mind?

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Speaker 1: Uh m hmm. Early two thousands and what was it

402
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Speaker 1: a song? Was it Forever Feels? That was the one,

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Speaker 1: and you could probaise you're where you are. I'm sure

404
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Speaker 1: there are certain songs we can just feel it. You're like, Okay,

405
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Speaker 1: we're looking at sales or we're looking at concert tickets,

406
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Speaker 1: like this is the element that is changing it. He

407
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Speaker 1: he actually was doing better business concert wise than we

408
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Speaker 1: do we're doing on records at that point, so he

409
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Speaker 1: was making more money at live shows then you were selling.

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Speaker 1: He was selling records. Yeah, but I mean what you

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Speaker 1: had were people think about back then in the late

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Speaker 1: nineties there there's no Internet. People were just showing up.

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Speaker 1: It's word of mouth, and so people are going out

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Speaker 1: to see him. And what we needed to do was

415
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Speaker 1: connect the dots he had. You know, we'd have a hit. No,

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Speaker 1: we'd haven't missed. We'd have a hit, we'd haven't missed.

417
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Speaker 1: How Forever Fuel was the first time we started a

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Speaker 1: string where we just kept going at it. Well, that string,

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Speaker 1: the consistency of the string. What you say you started

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Speaker 1: to hit him in a row. What was the consistent

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Speaker 1: I mean in terms of numbers or no, in terms

422
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Speaker 1: of you started to put them together. But but what

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Speaker 1: was this was that a certain texture of the songs,

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Speaker 1: the tempo, an idea, what it was? He Beach Kenny

425
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Speaker 1: was like, what was it? Now? He hadn't reached beach

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Speaker 1: Kenny yet. He was getting there, and um, he was

427
00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:00,359
Speaker 1: developing the identity, you know, coming out with the rock

428
00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:02,959
Speaker 1: and roll t shirts, the type jeans, the whole routine,

429
00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:06,760
Speaker 1: working out physically getting there because it was a physically

430
00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:09,560
Speaker 1: demanding job that he had, and really spending the money

431
00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:11,600
Speaker 1: on the production. He knew that he needed to make

432
00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:14,399
Speaker 1: a bigger and bigger show. But you know, when we

433
00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:18,880
Speaker 1: made records, we pulled four singles off, sometimes five singles,

434
00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:20,840
Speaker 1: and left singles on the album that we could have

435
00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:23,480
Speaker 1: pulled out. So the quality of the music was there,

436
00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:26,200
Speaker 1: and it was it was everything from the beach. But

437
00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:28,959
Speaker 1: then you'd go through, there goes my life, you know,

438
00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:31,760
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, it just it covered the gamut.

439
00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:35,240
Speaker 1: And occasionally he would write them, but most of the

440
00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:37,640
Speaker 1: time they were outside writers. You know, I often say

441
00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:40,639
Speaker 1: that I love slow Kenny, like I connectually slogan anytime

442
00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:44,360
Speaker 1: Kenny's doing a ballad or uh slightly slower than mid

443
00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:47,880
Speaker 1: like those are my Kenny Chesney songs. Tequila. Yeah. Oh man,

444
00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:51,520
Speaker 1: that's my favorite songs ever. And so like Slow Kenny,

445
00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:53,359
Speaker 1: that's my jam. Sometimes when it does the beach stuff

446
00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:54,760
Speaker 1: in the fast stuff, I don't even like the beach

447
00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:56,880
Speaker 1: So I'm like, you know what, I'll pass on this one.

448
00:21:57,040 --> 00:22:01,240
Speaker 1: But like, man, the guy's got an emotional catalog. So Kenney, Chasney,

449
00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:11,280
Speaker 1: Big Star, Mount rushmore of artists. Sure, let's go back

450
00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:14,160
Speaker 1: to New York. You moved to Nashville, you're working as

451
00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:18,560
Speaker 1: some administration position. Um, and so do you start to

452
00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:21,160
Speaker 1: climb here? Is it was that a goal of yours

453
00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:23,040
Speaker 1: to climb here? Was it a gold New York? For

454
00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:25,600
Speaker 1: you to climb here New York? At that point, I

455
00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:27,320
Speaker 1: think I was off the radar in New York for

456
00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:30,560
Speaker 1: that two year period. We check in occasionally with each other,

457
00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:34,439
Speaker 1: but um, I think the turning point for me was

458
00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:37,080
Speaker 1: the jury began to see Jury Badley began to see

459
00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:39,640
Speaker 1: when I go to New York, I'd bring something back

460
00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:43,200
Speaker 1: that helped us. And I had this conversation with him

461
00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:45,320
Speaker 1: one day because I kept I was not in charge

462
00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:48,480
Speaker 1: of promotion, but I was trying to figure everything out

463
00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:50,320
Speaker 1: in terms of country radio. I really had not been

464
00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:53,040
Speaker 1: involved with the format, and we kept getting these records

465
00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:56,639
Speaker 1: that didn't quite compete with everybody else on the charts.

466
00:22:57,119 --> 00:23:00,320
Speaker 1: But I mean, to the most of us, it's sound, dude,

467
00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:03,560
Speaker 1: like we should be competing. So I dove into promotion

468
00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:06,280
Speaker 1: and tried to start figuring out meeting with people, going

469
00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:09,919
Speaker 1: out with the promotion, guys, hitting radio stations, and you know,

470
00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:11,399
Speaker 1: I came into jury one day. I said, you know,

471
00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:14,080
Speaker 1: we're not we're not doing what we need to be doing.

472
00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:16,719
Speaker 1: And he looked at me and he said, well, go

473
00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:20,000
Speaker 1: damn god, damn it, go figure it out. I said, well,

474
00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:22,199
Speaker 1: I'm not in charge of promotion. He said, you just

475
00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:24,280
Speaker 1: go figure it out. I'll take care of it from there.

476
00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:26,600
Speaker 1: So I came back and I said, well, here are

477
00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:28,199
Speaker 1: the things that we need to do. He said, okay,

478
00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:31,720
Speaker 1: I'll put you in charge. And wait, wait, wait, wait,

479
00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:34,600
Speaker 1: wait wait, I haven't run a staff. You know, I've

480
00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:37,040
Speaker 1: been in promotion, but I haven't run a staff. And

481
00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:40,199
Speaker 1: so that was the trial by fire, and that fire.

482
00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:44,919
Speaker 1: As you're in the fire, do you realize that it's easier, harder,

483
00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:48,480
Speaker 1: or that you're naturally good at it, or it's something

484
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:50,000
Speaker 1: that maybe you didn't have the instinct for it, but

485
00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:51,800
Speaker 1: you could work really hard and figure it out. Like

486
00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:53,560
Speaker 1: where did you fall when you got into this promotions

487
00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:55,679
Speaker 1: world and now you're running it? I felt like I

488
00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:58,639
Speaker 1: could do it, but I needed the experience, you know.

489
00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:01,040
Speaker 1: I was surrounded by other tables where guys have been

490
00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:03,119
Speaker 1: doing this stuff for ten or fifteen years. I've been

491
00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:05,840
Speaker 1: doing it for fifteen or twenty months. So it took

492
00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:08,600
Speaker 1: me time to build those relationships and understand the system.

493
00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:11,800
Speaker 1: But then I went after it. Did you feel like

494
00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:14,679
Speaker 1: a little bit that you were at the right age

495
00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:16,720
Speaker 1: at a time when things were changing and you had

496
00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:19,480
Speaker 1: the right vision and mindset, because again, if you're working

497
00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:21,760
Speaker 1: with guys that have been doing it fifteen years, I

498
00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:28,520
Speaker 1: mean even you know, and eight and it's a significant

499
00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:33,040
Speaker 1: change since seventy five seven makes as far as technology, um,

500
00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:34,840
Speaker 1: And you know, I think I got lucky being this

501
00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:37,639
Speaker 1: age because I was using the internet and you know,

502
00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:39,560
Speaker 1: doing podcasting stuff before everybody was doing it. But I

503
00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:43,840
Speaker 1: happened to be very young at the right time and

504
00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:45,280
Speaker 1: severyone's like, wow, I look at this guy's doing all

505
00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:47,639
Speaker 1: those revolutionary stuff. No, I was just twenty two, and

506
00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:50,199
Speaker 1: it really wasn't revolutionary. I just was young doing it.

507
00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:53,080
Speaker 1: Did you find that a bit of that was because

508
00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:57,520
Speaker 1: you were younger and you were actually using the technology

509
00:24:57,600 --> 00:24:59,719
Speaker 1: of the day instead of having to learn it at

510
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:01,720
Speaker 1: an all age. That was part of it. But I

511
00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:05,159
Speaker 1: also think just like you, you you given an opportunity,

512
00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:07,439
Speaker 1: you went after it, and you you were not afraid

513
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:10,520
Speaker 1: of trying things, and that gave you the entree. The

514
00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:12,720
Speaker 1: same thing with me. I was not afraid of trying,

515
00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:15,280
Speaker 1: failing if I need, but I was going to go

516
00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:17,800
Speaker 1: after it. And you know, anytime I needed to be

517
00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:20,680
Speaker 1: on airplane out in l A, out in New York,

518
00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:23,359
Speaker 1: out and Dallas, I just went. And you you build

519
00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:26,600
Speaker 1: those relationships and you begin to understand the stations and

520
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:29,359
Speaker 1: the personalities and the markets. And that really did help

521
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:32,600
Speaker 1: me when I went back to the the artists and said, look,

522
00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:36,000
Speaker 1: this is what's coming back about the music and why

523
00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:39,199
Speaker 1: we're not succeeding, or if we were succeeding, this is

524
00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:41,040
Speaker 1: all the good news, and there's not really a lot

525
00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:44,600
Speaker 1: of bad news. And at that point, um, we had

526
00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:47,280
Speaker 1: not developed a system. We were just getting to the

527
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:49,640
Speaker 1: point of you know, the tracking systems like the BDS

528
00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:51,959
Speaker 1: and media base. That was just coming on, you were

529
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:55,880
Speaker 1: still dealing in archaic systems where people were yeah, hey

530
00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:58,760
Speaker 1: it's uh yeah, it's in power. They would just say

531
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:02,400
Speaker 1: how many times they played, and you had to of them.

532
00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:07,080
Speaker 1: So you're credited with really changing the formula of how

533
00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:11,600
Speaker 1: promotion is done to sell records. What did you do

534
00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:15,119
Speaker 1: in your mind that was so different? Well, one of

535
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:18,760
Speaker 1: the things was bringing the new artists out. I mean

536
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:21,720
Speaker 1: we created the original promo tour. I mean Loretto was

537
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:24,600
Speaker 1: the person that did it, and we would just used

538
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:26,679
Speaker 1: the same model. It started with the Judgs, and we

539
00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:28,879
Speaker 1: went out with the Judds and took them into studios

540
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:33,600
Speaker 1: and brought radio people into studios and that worked. But

541
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:37,080
Speaker 1: what we found out later on when we did Katie

542
00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:40,320
Speaker 1: and Clint was that if we went to the actual stations,

543
00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:43,639
Speaker 1: then people went in there, you met everybody in the station.

544
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:47,960
Speaker 1: You know, they cut jingles, they'd cut liners, So there

545
00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:51,160
Speaker 1: was an advantage to going to the marketplace. Prior to that,

546
00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:54,680
Speaker 1: people didn't really travel around to radio stations. Is it

547
00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:57,280
Speaker 1: crazy to do that? That's that's still the thing. It's

548
00:26:57,280 --> 00:27:00,080
Speaker 1: a personal business, you know, it's it's nice to play it,

549
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:02,159
Speaker 1: but you want to know something about him sometimes that

550
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:06,000
Speaker 1: personal relationship is what gets you over the hump to

551
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:08,640
Speaker 1: hitting a record. So what I hear you saying is

552
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:13,880
Speaker 1: people always a people of business, whether it be a songwriter, producer,

553
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:16,840
Speaker 1: or manager, it's always people. Let's go to the Judge

554
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:20,479
Speaker 1: for a second. Growing up, for me massive because my

555
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:24,080
Speaker 1: mom loved him. She would sing them all the time.

556
00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:26,080
Speaker 1: Like one of the memories I have of my mother

557
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:29,919
Speaker 1: is her singing why not me? Or just it was

558
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:32,159
Speaker 1: all Judgs all the time. Uh. And you know you

559
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:34,960
Speaker 1: have a mom and a daughter, and I don't know

560
00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:37,399
Speaker 1: that I have seen that before, a straight mom and

561
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:40,159
Speaker 1: a daughter that made it to a level like the

562
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:42,800
Speaker 1: Judge or even a mid level. So uh, you're you're

563
00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:44,600
Speaker 1: signing a you got invest money in them? Like what

564
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:46,760
Speaker 1: did you see about those two that made you think

565
00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:48,480
Speaker 1: that was something to put a bunch of money into?

566
00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:51,240
Speaker 1: And we'll believe in We used to when we go

567
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:53,920
Speaker 1: out to l a Um, we'd stay at this little

568
00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:56,439
Speaker 1: hotel called the Park. And the guy that was in

569
00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:59,520
Speaker 1: charge of current productions, Dick Whitehouse, who passed away about

570
00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:01,560
Speaker 1: a year today, I forgo. He and I have been

571
00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:03,640
Speaker 1: trying to do business for a while, just had never

572
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:06,840
Speaker 1: hit on anything. So we had breakfast and we were

573
00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 1: in the suite talking and he was getting ready to

574
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:10,919
Speaker 1: leave and he's I said to him, you got anything

575
00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:13,399
Speaker 1: for me? He said, well, I've got this mother daughter

576
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:16,359
Speaker 1: and I've got a work tape, but it's not ready.

577
00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:18,320
Speaker 1: Wait wait till we get back. I said, what do

578
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:19,760
Speaker 1: you think that when you hear a mother daughter before

579
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:23,520
Speaker 1: anything else? It's magic if you hear I have a

580
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:26,400
Speaker 1: mother daughter. Are you like? That's so original that if

581
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:29,320
Speaker 1: they're good, I want it because I don't. I've never

582
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:32,000
Speaker 1: heard mother you know, before them, and I don't know

583
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:33,679
Speaker 1: and have the experience you have it being around. I

584
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:35,440
Speaker 1: just haven't heard a mother daughter do it on a

585
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 1: level of contemporary and and they were even on the demos,

586
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:42,120
Speaker 1: they were great. So I said, look, I'm gonna be

587
00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:45,320
Speaker 1: back in Nashville on Monday. Why don't we get together

588
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:47,840
Speaker 1: anytime next week? You tell me when. So I think

589
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:50,280
Speaker 1: it was Wednesday or Thursday, the week when On and

590
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:53,959
Speaker 1: Naomi came in three songs they walk out. I go.

591
00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:56,920
Speaker 1: I called Dick and said, we've got to we've got

592
00:28:56,920 --> 00:28:59,600
Speaker 1: to make a deal. And we did that day. What

593
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:02,480
Speaker 1: do they maybe you don't remember, what are they coming

594
00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:04,640
Speaker 1: and think they have a guitar they doing in acapella stuff. No,

595
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:07,080
Speaker 1: they had a guitar, and uh, you know Why was

596
00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:09,640
Speaker 1: playing and singing and they were doing the harmony and

597
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:13,360
Speaker 1: Naomi is entertaining telling you the stories and honestly don't

598
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:16,360
Speaker 1: remember at this point. So one of them must have

599
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:20,880
Speaker 1: How old was she a teenage Robbia? Yeah, sixteen seventeen

600
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:25,560
Speaker 1: is crazy? And to have a you know, you hear

601
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:28,360
Speaker 1: about stage parents a lot. That's a literal stage parent

602
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:30,800
Speaker 1: that's apparent on stage with you and you're doing it together.

603
00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:33,280
Speaker 1: What was that dynamic like for them early? Because they're

604
00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:38,880
Speaker 1: equal stars, Yeah, but they're not equal in the house

605
00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:43,760
Speaker 1: that so I would assume that's managing that dynamic would

606
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:47,520
Speaker 1: have been tough. It took a moment I think that

607
00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 1: you know, Why was beginning to see that she was

608
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:56,840
Speaker 1: the center of attention, but she did need her mom

609
00:29:57,320 --> 00:29:59,600
Speaker 1: for the harmony part and also for the entertainment part.

610
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:03,320
Speaker 1: M hm. And why just was really good talking to people,

611
00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:07,240
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Naomi was Why was still

612
00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:10,640
Speaker 1: she was a kid, but she was she was gaining

613
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:14,680
Speaker 1: the experience rapidly. So you're going station to station, you're doing.

614
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:18,960
Speaker 1: You're figuring it out. Data is happening because you found

615
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:21,120
Speaker 1: a new technique, right and you're you're starting to slowly

616
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:23,840
Speaker 1: see it. When do other companies start to see what

617
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:25,400
Speaker 1: you're doing and how it's working, and they start to

618
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:28,120
Speaker 1: mimic what you're doing several years later, but you just

619
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:30,080
Speaker 1: you know. Then we went from you know, those promo

620
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:32,000
Speaker 1: visits to the bus tour. We would go around the

621
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:34,800
Speaker 1: country on a bus. And at first we did it

622
00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:38,280
Speaker 1: just as a label, going into radio stations you know,

623
00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:40,840
Speaker 1: and hitting them and take them on the bus, showing

624
00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:43,480
Speaker 1: the videos playing on the music talking for a while,

625
00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:46,440
Speaker 1: you know, three cities a day, just keep going around

626
00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:49,720
Speaker 1: the country for four or five months, and then we

627
00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:51,960
Speaker 1: got the idea to start doing bus tours where you

628
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:54,000
Speaker 1: would bring the artist to the radio station on the

629
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:59,040
Speaker 1: bus and again take them on spend the time just that.

630
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:01,480
Speaker 1: We had that down for a couple of years before

631
00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:04,800
Speaker 1: somebody said, oh, we'll do that too. It's also a

632
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:07,160
Speaker 1: costly I mean, it costs a lot of money to

633
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:08,920
Speaker 1: move an artists around for months and a bus, and

634
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:13,120
Speaker 1: it's time consuming for your staff coordinating everything, you know,

635
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:15,920
Speaker 1: getting everything together and making sure that you've got everything

636
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:18,240
Speaker 1: you need and at the same time, promo guys have

637
00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:21,000
Speaker 1: it to keep you know, working on those records. So

638
00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:26,200
Speaker 1: you're promo touring your head of promotions. When does that

639
00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:29,600
Speaker 1: turn into or maybe there's a couple of steps in between,

640
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:32,840
Speaker 1: but when do you actually take the helm uh, cherry

641
00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:36,120
Speaker 1: stepped down and two? So I took it right after that?

642
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:38,240
Speaker 1: And how did that feel to you? Like it's my

643
00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:41,760
Speaker 1: time or like holy crap? No? Well, I know at

644
00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:45,280
Speaker 1: that time the company was kind of like, mm hmm,

645
00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:49,880
Speaker 1: are you ready for this? Yeah? Is it because your age? Yeah,

646
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:51,760
Speaker 1: more than anything else, because it sounds like you've done

647
00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:53,440
Speaker 1: things that nobody else has done. You've seen things and

648
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:54,959
Speaker 1: ways I haven't been seen it. Had you maybe been

649
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:57,360
Speaker 1: forty five, they wouldn't have asked the question. Possibly, So

650
00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:00,160
Speaker 1: you're thirty two and they say you're ready for this?

651
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:03,840
Speaker 1: And what do you say? Yeah? What did you feel though? Inside? Yeah?

652
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:05,240
Speaker 1: I felt like I could do it, you know. I

653
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:08,960
Speaker 1: mean again, just as I said before about running a staff,

654
00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:11,520
Speaker 1: running a label is a different thing than being like

655
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:15,960
Speaker 1: the GM. You know, the buck stops there. What new

656
00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:19,080
Speaker 1: responsibility did you have running a label that maybe you

657
00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:21,240
Speaker 1: didn't know you were going to have when running a label,

658
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:25,040
Speaker 1: when you start building a roster, that's a completely different

659
00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:29,719
Speaker 1: experience than just working records, because you're painting a picture.

660
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:33,760
Speaker 1: What you really do see should represent this label? And

661
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:36,400
Speaker 1: where are the holes in the marketplace? What is the competition?

662
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:40,240
Speaker 1: Got what do you have? Can you do better than

663
00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:42,480
Speaker 1: they are in the various areas? You could have three

664
00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:45,360
Speaker 1: women on the on the roster, but maybe they weren't

665
00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:48,680
Speaker 1: better than Tricia. You're worth you know, you gotta find

666
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:50,880
Speaker 1: where So we had the jugs, you know you could

667
00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:54,880
Speaker 1: crack through and you know, moved on to Lourie Morgan

668
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:58,720
Speaker 1: and you know, it was just working through that process

669
00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:01,840
Speaker 1: of trying to find. When you build a label, you

670
00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 1: build a catalog and you have to have those artists

671
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:08,120
Speaker 1: that are gonna have a long tale, be able to

672
00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:09,959
Speaker 1: sell for a long period of time. If you just

673
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:13,320
Speaker 1: have a series of one hit wonders, you're just constantly spending.

674
00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:16,760
Speaker 1: You're on a durable wheel. But building, yeah, you know,

675
00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:19,480
Speaker 1: you have to be consistent about the music, consistent about

676
00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:21,840
Speaker 1: the moves with the manager in terms of during what

677
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:23,880
Speaker 1: are you doing on the TV personel? How do you

678
00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:26,880
Speaker 1: get them on the shows? Moving through the entire process.

679
00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:29,200
Speaker 1: I have a friend who is a pitching coach at

680
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:32,680
Speaker 1: a major university and another school called him and say, hey,

681
00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:35,080
Speaker 1: let you come and be the manager. He's like great,

682
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:37,280
Speaker 1: always been looking for the opportunity of a manager. He

683
00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:39,760
Speaker 1: gets over and he realizes this. He does really enjoy

684
00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:41,760
Speaker 1: the job, and you know he loves being a manager,

685
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:43,000
Speaker 1: but he can't spend in the much time with the

686
00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:45,800
Speaker 1: pictures anymore. Like the thing that got him there, that

687
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:47,640
Speaker 1: he loved to do. That he invested all this time

688
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:52,040
Speaker 1: in learning and teaching and communication in talking about pitching,

689
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:55,200
Speaker 1: he could not do as much. So here you are.

690
00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:59,800
Speaker 1: You've created a new template for promotion and finding artists

691
00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:04,040
Speaker 1: that but now you're running a label. Did it pull

692
00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:07,160
Speaker 1: you away from what you were really great at a

693
00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:11,320
Speaker 1: bit and where you couldn't spend as much time? Obviously

694
00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:13,440
Speaker 1: you couldn't be on the road as much. But did

695
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:15,799
Speaker 1: it take you away from what you loved? And did

696
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:18,600
Speaker 1: you have to find people that had similar vision as you.

697
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:22,080
Speaker 1: There's no way you do this as an individual. You

698
00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:25,239
Speaker 1: have to have a team. And that was really I

699
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:29,200
Speaker 1: think for me a process of learning how to pick

700
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:33,600
Speaker 1: the right people, which allowed me to spend less time

701
00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:36,560
Speaker 1: in the field and more time with the artists, but

702
00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:38,800
Speaker 1: more time with the artists also meant not just the

703
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:41,680
Speaker 1: studio but being on the road. So it was a

704
00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:48,880
Speaker 1: balancing act as the head. Who was your first major

705
00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:51,640
Speaker 1: success that wasn't already on the artist like you couldn't

706
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:53,560
Speaker 1: let's say, we have to take everybody all the table

707
00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:58,399
Speaker 1: that you'd already found, you had nourished. But you're the head.

708
00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:03,200
Speaker 1: You find somebody brand new, first major success running the label, Judge,

709
00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:06,160
Speaker 1: judge with the first one through? Were you running the

710
00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:08,799
Speaker 1: label when you found him? You were? And so is

711
00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:12,720
Speaker 1: there a different kind of you know, just being straight

712
00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:15,439
Speaker 1: proud whenever you're the head, guys at a different feeling. Well,

713
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:19,000
Speaker 1: the moment for me was when Conway Twitty, my assistant, said, come,

714
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:22,520
Speaker 1: Twitt's on the phone for you. I said, Conway, he said,

715
00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:25,520
Speaker 1: I just heard the judge. You've done a damn good thing.

716
00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:30,000
Speaker 1: Boy hung up. It was like, okay, I got the

717
00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:34,960
Speaker 1: stamp of approval. Uh. Clint Black, who I think it's

718
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:36,759
Speaker 1: so cooled. I have a relationship with Clinton now and

719
00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:40,120
Speaker 1: growing up in Mountain Pine, Arkansas, I knew every Clint

720
00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:44,080
Speaker 1: Black song. I mean, he was just a hero musically

721
00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:45,799
Speaker 1: to me and someone that I never thought i'd get

722
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:47,920
Speaker 1: to know much. Let's be friends with I mean, guy

723
00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:51,040
Speaker 1: as smart as a whip, like funny, and when people

724
00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:52,719
Speaker 1: come into my show, for the most part, I feel

725
00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:55,759
Speaker 1: like they'll come in, put some bowling bumpers up, take

726
00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:57,359
Speaker 1: care of him. You know, we'll make them look good.

727
00:35:57,400 --> 00:35:59,600
Speaker 1: That's my job, make them look good. They don't sound good.

728
00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:01,760
Speaker 1: But I'll make a with Clint. There ain't no bumpers,

729
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:03,560
Speaker 1: and I gotta watch out because he's gonna he's gonna

730
00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:05,840
Speaker 1: give it to me real good. So tell me about

731
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:08,520
Speaker 1: meeting Clint and what it was with Clint that what

732
00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:10,200
Speaker 1: it was about Clint that made you go that guy's

733
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:16,720
Speaker 1: a star. Well, first is the voice, second was the look.

734
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:19,680
Speaker 1: Third I found out how funny and smart he was.

735
00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:22,360
Speaker 1: Because you know, you you go in and you you

736
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:25,759
Speaker 1: meet the guy, and you know you're a little bit intimidated,

737
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:27,080
Speaker 1: and it just took a little bit of time for

738
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:30,359
Speaker 1: us to break the ice. But then you just said, man,

739
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:34,520
Speaker 1: this guy, he just he can really wrap his you know,

740
00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:37,480
Speaker 1: his arms around the crowd and they just feel like

741
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:41,040
Speaker 1: it's family. And then the songs, I mean, just one

742
00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:43,399
Speaker 1: after another. You know, I mean killing time, no news,

743
00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:45,879
Speaker 1: I mean just the way we run through that. And

744
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:51,239
Speaker 1: he was, Um, yes, he was a country singer, but

745
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:53,560
Speaker 1: at the same time he was one soulful son of

746
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:57,239
Speaker 1: a bitch. I mean just the ability for him to

747
00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:01,640
Speaker 1: just approach each of his songs a different way sometimes live,

748
00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:04,440
Speaker 1: not just give you the three minute version, but do

749
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:07,759
Speaker 1: what Clint can do, which is just well and then play.

750
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:09,520
Speaker 1: I saw him over the course of the tour of

751
00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:12,880
Speaker 1: the first couple of years, really get to be a guitarist.

752
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:15,759
Speaker 1: Prior that he was a rhythm player, but he did

753
00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:18,280
Speaker 1: learn how to play in lead, in the lead guitar.

754
00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:25,040
Speaker 1: Sarah Evans. Yeah, whenever you signed Sarah Evans, what was

755
00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:28,480
Speaker 1: it that drew you to her? Because she's a bit

756
00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:30,040
Speaker 1: of a wild card and I enjoy being around her

757
00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:31,880
Speaker 1: because I never know what I'm gonna get with Sarah?

758
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:34,759
Speaker 1: What's she like that? In early days? Um, and that

759
00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:37,040
Speaker 1: first record we made with Pete Anderson was really a

760
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:42,640
Speaker 1: throwback to Loretta Lynn Day's reviewed critically but not commercially successful.

761
00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:50,800
Speaker 1: Big personality, big voice, Um, great at collaborating with people,

762
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:54,720
Speaker 1: so it you know, it was a process again almost

763
00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:57,439
Speaker 1: like Kenny to a certain degree. You know, we get one,

764
00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:01,719
Speaker 1: lose one, get one, lose one, and then um, no

765
00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:04,560
Speaker 1: place that far came out. We got Vince on the

766
00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:08,279
Speaker 1: background at that point just started taking off from there.

767
00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:13,399
Speaker 1: So you're running the label you put in eleven years

768
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:16,600
Speaker 1: or so as the head of the at first move

769
00:38:16,719 --> 00:38:20,200
Speaker 1: New York. Yeah, about a decade or so. Um, I

770
00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:23,520
Speaker 1: mean for you before you moved to New York, before

771
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:25,480
Speaker 1: you came back. What was the high point in that

772
00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:28,840
Speaker 1: first decade to run for you as far as your career,

773
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:32,879
Speaker 1: you know, I mean I think we had been named

774
00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:35,879
Speaker 1: label of the Year for a decade. Wow, really yeah,

775
00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:39,839
Speaker 1: and that was that was pretty powerful stuff for us,

776
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:41,760
Speaker 1: you know because people coming in out of that slot

777
00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:44,359
Speaker 1: and we held it. Were you so hard to get

778
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:46,800
Speaker 1: ahold of your the I mean King Dingling in Nashville?

779
00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:49,360
Speaker 1: Everybody you could change lives like that. I mean, you

780
00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:52,320
Speaker 1: were the biggest guy in town. I gotta imagine everywhere

781
00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:55,880
Speaker 1: you went, somebody trying to hand you a tape, something

782
00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:59,560
Speaker 1: calling your office, dressing up like a delivery man coming in.

783
00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:01,279
Speaker 1: That's stuf had to be happening to you all the time.

784
00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:04,520
Speaker 1: You know. If somebody called me, I returned the call

785
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:07,040
Speaker 1: within twenty four hours. I always did that. I didn't

786
00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:11,680
Speaker 1: leave the office, still always done just it was about relationships.

787
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:14,360
Speaker 1: And you can ask anybody that worked from me or

788
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:17,200
Speaker 1: work with me all during those years. I called you

789
00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:20,279
Speaker 1: back the King and Nashville is calling people back all day. Yeah,

790
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:23,359
Speaker 1: I mean that's the job. You gotta stay in touch

791
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:25,040
Speaker 1: with everybody. I mean, I get it, But I would

792
00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:27,239
Speaker 1: just think at some point when everybody wants to get

793
00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:29,920
Speaker 1: in touch with you, that will be hard to have

794
00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:34,080
Speaker 1: enough capacity. Well, you start setting up where you have

795
00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:36,960
Speaker 1: an A and R department of your promotion department, go

796
00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:39,640
Speaker 1: see so and so. And if you then come back

797
00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:42,759
Speaker 1: to me, but not directly, why do you go back

798
00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:47,160
Speaker 1: to New York. It was the reverse of the other,

799
00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:49,680
Speaker 1: the argument that got me down here. I went to

800
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:55,600
Speaker 1: my boss, came down from b MG, and I thought

801
00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:57,520
Speaker 1: he was hitting around about me going to work in

802
00:39:57,560 --> 00:40:00,279
Speaker 1: New York and I, you know, and I don't know.

803
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:03,920
Speaker 1: I'm happy here. Everything's good. I was about to get married. Uh,

804
00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:06,800
Speaker 1: you know, we had planned the wedding and for November

805
00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:10,319
Speaker 1: and uh and just at the beginning of August, I

806
00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:13,680
Speaker 1: just finished a worldwide meeting. Everything and gone well and

807
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:15,879
Speaker 1: get the phone call and he says, come on up,

808
00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:21,040
Speaker 1: I'd just like to have dinner with you. Strange. So

809
00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:24,080
Speaker 1: I go up and uh, he said, I'd like you

810
00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:27,799
Speaker 1: to take over the label um running call the all

811
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:32,960
Speaker 1: the divisions. And I said, ah, Michael, I thought we

812
00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:35,520
Speaker 1: rule that out. He said, no, you're the right guy

813
00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:37,880
Speaker 1: for it. He said, but you've got five hours to

814
00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:41,000
Speaker 1: make the decision. When this dinner is done, I need

815
00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:43,520
Speaker 1: your answer by eleven o'clock tonight. Why do you even

816
00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:45,120
Speaker 1: have a dinner now that you've gotta have a decision.

817
00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:46,520
Speaker 1: That's all I'll be thinking about. Is there trying to

818
00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:49,920
Speaker 1: run through my head all the scenarios. Passed the mashed

819
00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:52,840
Speaker 1: potatoes and I went back to the room and called

820
00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:56,879
Speaker 1: my fiance at that point, France Schwartz, and I said,

821
00:40:57,640 --> 00:40:59,920
Speaker 1: I think I can do this. Are you up for it?

822
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:03,239
Speaker 1: We were both ex New Yorkers. It sounded like a

823
00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:06,160
Speaker 1: good idea at the time, and so I called him

824
00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:09,200
Speaker 1: back and went into the office. Next day he fired.

825
00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:12,840
Speaker 1: He fired the president that morning and I walked in

826
00:41:13,719 --> 00:41:17,040
Speaker 1: called everybody in, had our first power wow, got back

827
00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:19,480
Speaker 1: on the plane and went back to Nashville because I

828
00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:23,799
Speaker 1: came up there with like on the overnight bag. So

829
00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:27,680
Speaker 1: I went back and then you know, all hell break loose,

830
00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:29,439
Speaker 1: you know, because I'm gonna have to move to New York.

831
00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:31,720
Speaker 1: I'm about to get married. I mean, it's just crazy.

832
00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:35,279
Speaker 1: So and what does your fiancee think about the move

833
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:38,239
Speaker 1: back home? She was excited about it because she was

834
00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:41,080
Speaker 1: a New Yorker. Um, the unfortunate problem was she was

835
00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:43,320
Speaker 1: working for Arista with Tim Dubois. She was one of

836
00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:47,680
Speaker 1: the original founding members of the Arista group. And then, um,

837
00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:50,640
Speaker 1: she goes up there and she doesn't have that job anymore,

838
00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:52,799
Speaker 1: so she's got to go find it, you know, job

839
00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:55,399
Speaker 1: up there. We're trying to find living in New York

840
00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:58,080
Speaker 1: and get used to the roster. You got a hundred

841
00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:01,400
Speaker 1: acts where we had, you know, fifth theme. It's a

842
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:10,640
Speaker 1: different world completely. Were you more excited about going home

843
00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:16,000
Speaker 1: or a different challenge? That's a different challenge, And what

844
00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:19,560
Speaker 1: was different about it the I mean maybe the difference

845
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:23,600
Speaker 1: was just how wide the net was, all different sounds

846
00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:26,960
Speaker 1: and different types of artists. We had had the jazz department,

847
00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:30,600
Speaker 1: the Art R and B department at that point, the

848
00:42:30,680 --> 00:42:33,799
Speaker 1: rock department, and then pop and then country reporting to me.

849
00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:36,759
Speaker 1: So it was the whole portfolio. Do you have a

850
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:41,840
Speaker 1: pardon hiring your replacement Nashville? I guess, And so you

851
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:44,440
Speaker 1: go up. Uh, you know, I was just kind of

852
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:45,640
Speaker 1: looking at some of the stuff you did when you

853
00:42:45,640 --> 00:42:48,239
Speaker 1: went back, and I'm a fan of both or two

854
00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:50,680
Speaker 1: of the acts that are directly credited to you, one

855
00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:54,799
Speaker 1: of them and Dave. Um, so, Dave Matthews Band. How

856
00:42:54,880 --> 00:43:00,600
Speaker 1: does how does does he and that group get to you? Well,

857
00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:05,040
Speaker 1: we're pre internet and so kids at that point. Um

858
00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:07,480
Speaker 1: that you may remember when you went to see a band,

859
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:10,920
Speaker 1: you'd make a cassette tape and then you pass it

860
00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:14,080
Speaker 1: around the dorm. And we had a group of college

861
00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:18,000
Speaker 1: interns and this one college intern said, all my friends

862
00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:20,680
Speaker 1: down here in the South, they got this guy Dave

863
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:23,359
Speaker 1: Matthews Band, and you know you need to listen to that.

864
00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:25,920
Speaker 1: That's how it got to you. Wow. I went to

865
00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:29,280
Speaker 1: one the college department, reported to one of the guys

866
00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:31,920
Speaker 1: in an r who actually is here. Pete Robinson is

867
00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:37,319
Speaker 1: here in natural as a publisher and um, we went

868
00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:42,319
Speaker 1: to wet Lands, Um butcha myself, UM, a few other

869
00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:45,560
Speaker 1: fun guys and we walked into this place the show

870
00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:47,240
Speaker 1: was supposed to be at two o'clock in the morning.

871
00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:50,000
Speaker 1: Walk in at like one two o'clock in the morning.

872
00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:54,319
Speaker 1: Walk in there, there's nobody there, and I'm looking at

873
00:43:54,320 --> 00:44:00,279
Speaker 1: the n R group going two oh one. About many

874
00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:05,120
Speaker 1: five guys started walking in ball caps. She knows about

875
00:44:05,160 --> 00:44:08,280
Speaker 1: two oh five. The place is packed out and everybody.

876
00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:11,240
Speaker 1: Everybody's doing the same thing thinking the cassette player putting

877
00:44:11,239 --> 00:44:14,160
Speaker 1: it in front of the band. Dave comes out and

878
00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:17,040
Speaker 1: I looked at Butcher one point, we're probably halfway through

879
00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:19,239
Speaker 1: the set, and I said, do you think you can

880
00:44:19,239 --> 00:44:22,120
Speaker 1: get any of this stuff on the radio? He said, Uh,

881
00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:24,799
Speaker 1: I don't know about that. Joe was it long jam

882
00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:28,759
Speaker 1: band stuff? And I said, you know what I said,

883
00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:30,800
Speaker 1: I think we just go for this because regardless of

884
00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:32,680
Speaker 1: whether it goes on the radio or not, this is

885
00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:36,239
Speaker 1: the most exciting thing I've seen in years. And then

886
00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:40,799
Speaker 1: we went down and negotiated with cornycap Shaw and uh,

887
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:43,600
Speaker 1: we actually put the record out because MTV at that

888
00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:48,560
Speaker 1: point was the eight Pound Gorilla, and we put an

889
00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:52,640
Speaker 1: independent record out hit Everything, no affiliation to our CIA.

890
00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:56,080
Speaker 1: People saw this record come out, they were jumping on it.

891
00:44:56,239 --> 00:44:58,239
Speaker 1: Did you hide it because of what their brand was?

892
00:44:58,719 --> 00:45:00,920
Speaker 1: No we hit it because we knew that if we

893
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:04,279
Speaker 1: put it out, MTV wouldn't be excited about it because

894
00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:07,440
Speaker 1: they liked the indies. They got him, so okay, So

895
00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:12,680
Speaker 1: MTV's brand played into it. God, MTV started going, well,

896
00:45:12,719 --> 00:45:15,759
Speaker 1: you guys, you need to pursue this, and I said, yeah,

897
00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:18,880
Speaker 1: we'll get it, got it, started making the videos, went

898
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:21,680
Speaker 1: on MTV, and then everybody figured it out later on.

899
00:45:21,719 --> 00:45:25,520
Speaker 1: It was an end. You mentioned Corn, that's like my guy,

900
00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:28,560
Speaker 1: you know, and he's I you know, Dave was playing

901
00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:32,520
Speaker 1: at his bar and you know, found the bassist and

902
00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:35,120
Speaker 1: you know put that. I mean, what what a story

903
00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:37,359
Speaker 1: and what a way to build a career the way

904
00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:41,359
Speaker 1: he built it throughout the touring spectrum, I mean, unbelievable.

905
00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:44,960
Speaker 1: The first gig that Dave played west of the Mississippi

906
00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:48,799
Speaker 1: was in Seattle at our annual meeting. He had never

907
00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:53,600
Speaker 1: been up there, but again people flocked in. Was it

908
00:45:53,719 --> 00:45:56,839
Speaker 1: a convincing that you had to do with Dave to go, hey,

909
00:45:56,920 --> 00:45:58,840
Speaker 1: let's make these songs three and a half minutes and

910
00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:01,640
Speaker 1: let's make you know, really obviously real catchy hooks, and

911
00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:04,480
Speaker 1: you know, what you do is awesome. But for the radio,

912
00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:06,560
Speaker 1: it's a different animal. But did you get it? They

913
00:46:06,680 --> 00:46:10,200
Speaker 1: just let them go. You know, I think they're our

914
00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:15,920
Speaker 1: format is that animal. Dave was a completely different entity completely.

915
00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:18,120
Speaker 1: You just let him do what he did. You know.

916
00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:20,120
Speaker 1: It was funny. We did an international meeting. We had

917
00:46:20,120 --> 00:46:24,080
Speaker 1: started to really you know, gold seven or fifty thousand units,

918
00:46:25,080 --> 00:46:28,120
Speaker 1: and I went to an international meeting in Barcelona, and

919
00:46:28,239 --> 00:46:30,000
Speaker 1: I was all excited because these guys have been waiting

920
00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:31,920
Speaker 1: for us to come up with something for years and

921
00:46:31,960 --> 00:46:34,320
Speaker 1: we just hadn't delivered. So I walk in here and

922
00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:36,560
Speaker 1: I do my presentation, and you know, I've got Dave

923
00:46:36,640 --> 00:46:38,600
Speaker 1: on the big screen and everything, and we're doing the

924
00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:42,040
Speaker 1: video and everything, and I look out and most of

925
00:46:42,080 --> 00:46:44,359
Speaker 1: the international guys that got their heads down at the desk,

926
00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:48,759
Speaker 1: they are not interested. They're sleeping there, napping, and they

927
00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:52,239
Speaker 1: just never got it. It was an American thing. What

928
00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:54,239
Speaker 1: do you think that thing is? Like? What? What? What about?

929
00:46:54,280 --> 00:46:57,160
Speaker 1: It is so American that someone international wouldn't get three

930
00:46:57,200 --> 00:47:02,080
Speaker 1: and a half minutes? Yeah yeah, I mean tour, Yeah,

931
00:47:02,160 --> 00:47:04,279
Speaker 1: if you want a tour, which he didn't really do

932
00:47:04,360 --> 00:47:08,759
Speaker 1: a whole lot of, but not for the radio. Woutang,

933
00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:12,920
Speaker 1: I mean again, Wu Tang was everywhere for me as

934
00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:16,160
Speaker 1: a kid, not the same as Dave. You know. It's so,

935
00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:19,520
Speaker 1: what about Woo Tang and what stage did you start

936
00:47:19,560 --> 00:47:22,120
Speaker 1: to get to know the guys. We had done a

937
00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:27,480
Speaker 1: production deal with a guy named Steve Rifkin. Loud Records

938
00:47:27,640 --> 00:47:29,480
Speaker 1: was the name of it. That Big a Loud Loud,

939
00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:33,759
Speaker 1: and um, we had had a couple of you know,

940
00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:35,799
Speaker 1: get the first base, and that's as far as you

941
00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:38,000
Speaker 1: went with a couple of the acts, and they brought

942
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:41,520
Speaker 1: in the Wou Tang and the demos of that, and

943
00:47:41,560 --> 00:47:44,360
Speaker 1: everybody in the company just flipped, so you know, it

944
00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:46,279
Speaker 1: was part of the deal itself. So we got it

945
00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:48,600
Speaker 1: and then we started to develop it. Was it interesting

946
00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:51,080
Speaker 1: to you guys in a positive way that they all

947
00:47:51,120 --> 00:47:56,040
Speaker 1: had their own independent personalities and names and characteristics. I

948
00:47:56,040 --> 00:47:58,240
Speaker 1: mean because in hip hop groups for the most part

949
00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:03,080
Speaker 1: when I was a kid, they didn't all stand out

950
00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:05,920
Speaker 1: as individually and then work as well together at the

951
00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:09,359
Speaker 1: same time. And all the guys, I mean, they did

952
00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:12,399
Speaker 1: so much stuff separate, but they were always Wu Tang,

953
00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:15,239
Speaker 1: So that was a positive with you guys. I mean,

954
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:17,600
Speaker 1: you had all the I mean you saw it on stage.

955
00:48:17,640 --> 00:48:21,080
Speaker 1: They were all distinct personalities. And I mean, and it

956
00:48:21,200 --> 00:48:23,120
Speaker 1: was East Coast. You know, there was the West Coast

957
00:48:23,160 --> 00:48:26,000
Speaker 1: out there, and you had all the doctor dre's and

958
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:28,839
Speaker 1: everything else. But this was an East Coast man and

959
00:48:28,880 --> 00:48:32,839
Speaker 1: they really did move the needle Hot ninety seven. I mean,

960
00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:35,480
Speaker 1: you know, it was when there was rhythm stations out there.

961
00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:39,560
Speaker 1: Was there a decision to make when they wanted to

962
00:48:39,600 --> 00:48:41,840
Speaker 1: do solo stuff of which ones of them that you

963
00:48:41,840 --> 00:48:43,880
Speaker 1: would sign and which ones you wouldn't or did you?

964
00:48:44,120 --> 00:48:46,160
Speaker 1: Did you? Because I don't think you sign them all?

965
00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:48,960
Speaker 1: Did you individually? No? Not At that point. By the

966
00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:52,600
Speaker 1: time they started doing solo, I was gone, okay, so okay,

967
00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:55,520
Speaker 1: you're gone, We're gone. It was quick, all right, all right,

968
00:48:55,760 --> 00:48:59,919
Speaker 1: where'd you go? I went back home? And why why

969
00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:06,360
Speaker 1: back to Nashville that process. Um My boss had a

970
00:49:06,440 --> 00:49:10,200
Speaker 1: very unrealistic expectation in New York. Yeah, he thought, you

971
00:49:10,239 --> 00:49:12,919
Speaker 1: can turn this thing around in a heartbeat. And we

972
00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:18,239
Speaker 1: were we were so far down in the hole. We

973
00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:20,640
Speaker 1: didn't register on any meter. So it's like turning I

974
00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:23,160
Speaker 1: got a CDL license from my form A TV show,

975
00:49:23,200 --> 00:49:24,800
Speaker 1: and I realized it turning around an eighteen wheeler. You

976
00:49:24,800 --> 00:49:27,120
Speaker 1: can't just turn around a eighteen wheeler. It is very slow,

977
00:49:27,520 --> 00:49:30,480
Speaker 1: very methodical. It's sound and if someone's like you turned

978
00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:32,080
Speaker 1: this around real quick, it just didn't happen like you

979
00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:35,720
Speaker 1: wish it. But it wouldn't happen. First year, eighteen months

980
00:49:35,880 --> 00:49:38,560
Speaker 1: was getting rid of people in acts. I dropped sixty

981
00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:43,360
Speaker 1: acts six eighteen months. The intro stage was eighteen months,

982
00:49:43,719 --> 00:49:45,800
Speaker 1: changed all the people, drop all the acts. None of

983
00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:49,479
Speaker 1: the acts came back to harness. And then you start

984
00:49:49,480 --> 00:49:52,719
Speaker 1: building your team and that takes time. And then what

985
00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:55,680
Speaker 1: started to happen was then you know, Dave comes on board,

986
00:49:55,840 --> 00:49:59,600
Speaker 1: s w V WU Tang. But I just wasn't happen

987
00:50:00,320 --> 00:50:04,600
Speaker 1: the fun because you were you were trying to serve

988
00:50:04,640 --> 00:50:08,840
Speaker 1: too many masters, and the expectation was we should be

989
00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:10,879
Speaker 1: doing a lot more, a lot sooner. And I just

990
00:50:11,360 --> 00:50:14,160
Speaker 1: kept going, it's gonna take more time, it's gonna take more. No, no,

991
00:50:14,160 --> 00:50:15,560
Speaker 1: no no, And I went to, look, you know what,

992
00:50:16,840 --> 00:50:20,520
Speaker 1: maybe we're not meant for each other. So I'll leave

993
00:50:21,080 --> 00:50:23,080
Speaker 1: and I'll go back to Nashville. I'll find a gig.

994
00:50:23,160 --> 00:50:25,040
Speaker 1: And then this when he said, no, no, no, no, no,

995
00:50:25,080 --> 00:50:26,520
Speaker 1: You're not gonna go to work for somebody else. You're

996
00:50:26,560 --> 00:50:28,960
Speaker 1: gonna go work for us, and so I moved back here.

997
00:50:29,120 --> 00:50:30,840
Speaker 1: When you move back to it felt like home again.

998
00:50:31,360 --> 00:50:33,760
Speaker 1: Oh yeah yeah. But I mean at the same time,

999
00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:36,120
Speaker 1: you know, I've been out of Nashville for four years.

1000
00:50:36,200 --> 00:50:38,960
Speaker 1: Things that started to change. Sound Scan had come on board,

1001
00:50:39,000 --> 00:50:40,920
Speaker 1: and now you really started to see what was happening

1002
00:50:40,920 --> 00:50:44,080
Speaker 1: with record selling and you know, players were different. You

1003
00:50:44,160 --> 00:50:46,480
Speaker 1: gotta get back down here. Me know, all the songwriters,

1004
00:50:46,520 --> 00:50:50,160
Speaker 1: all the publishers, everybody knew me. But you still got

1005
00:50:50,200 --> 00:50:51,840
Speaker 1: a good in the pecking order. You know, how do

1006
00:50:51,920 --> 00:50:54,640
Speaker 1: you jump ahead? Isn't it crazy? In four years in

1007
00:50:54,680 --> 00:50:58,680
Speaker 1: the creative space? I mean it's like dog years. You've

1008
00:50:58,719 --> 00:51:01,400
Speaker 1: got four years. It's not that's not four years, that's

1009
00:51:02,560 --> 00:51:06,360
Speaker 1: uh generations because you've had so many, even small changes

1010
00:51:06,400 --> 00:51:08,520
Speaker 1: in how the artist done, who the writers are, people

1011
00:51:08,520 --> 00:51:11,160
Speaker 1: that are coming with new idea creatively. So you come

1012
00:51:11,160 --> 00:51:12,920
Speaker 1: back after four years, what did you find the biggest

1013
00:51:13,000 --> 00:51:16,399
Speaker 1: change was after that short time that really wasn't that short. Well,

1014
00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:17,839
Speaker 1: the first thing I did was I went back out

1015
00:51:17,880 --> 00:51:20,200
Speaker 1: to the radio stations and I said, what's going on?

1016
00:51:20,280 --> 00:51:22,080
Speaker 1: Tell me what's going on? And I can read a chart,

1017
00:51:22,320 --> 00:51:25,120
Speaker 1: but what's going on in the marketplace and the artists themselves.

1018
00:51:25,400 --> 00:51:26,920
Speaker 1: You know, we were at that point where there was

1019
00:51:26,920 --> 00:51:29,160
Speaker 1: going to be a new group of people coming through

1020
00:51:29,160 --> 00:51:32,280
Speaker 1: the Brooks and Duns and Allen Jackson's has really started

1021
00:51:32,280 --> 00:51:35,560
Speaker 1: to come on strong. But there was room for more

1022
00:51:36,160 --> 00:51:38,399
Speaker 1: and so it was an opportunity. It was just going

1023
00:51:38,440 --> 00:51:41,000
Speaker 1: out there and finding out. Okay, tell me what's working,

1024
00:51:41,040 --> 00:51:43,279
Speaker 1: what's not working, what are you missing. One of the

1025
00:51:43,280 --> 00:51:45,720
Speaker 1: things they told me was, you know, people become stars

1026
00:51:45,719 --> 00:51:48,440
Speaker 1: that ever come back to visit us. So you know,

1027
00:51:48,520 --> 00:51:50,880
Speaker 1: we'd start taking the artists out again, you know, the

1028
00:51:50,920 --> 00:51:52,920
Speaker 1: Alabama's of the world. Go out there and see the

1029
00:51:53,040 --> 00:51:56,480
Speaker 1: radio stations and you curry favor and you get the opportunities.

1030
00:51:56,480 --> 00:51:58,080
Speaker 1: And the first act that I signed when we were

1031
00:51:58,120 --> 00:52:00,839
Speaker 1: down there was Minnie McCready and you know, we had

1032
00:52:00,840 --> 00:52:03,040
Speaker 1: a double platinum record out of the gate. And then

1033
00:52:03,120 --> 00:52:05,400
Speaker 1: you know started again with Lori Morrigan and you know

1034
00:52:05,640 --> 00:52:09,239
Speaker 1: John Anderson and just things started to click. But it

1035
00:52:09,239 --> 00:52:10,799
Speaker 1: took a couple of years. Did you feel like you

1036
00:52:10,880 --> 00:52:14,880
Speaker 1: brought back the people elemented? And somehow four years people

1037
00:52:14,880 --> 00:52:18,319
Speaker 1: didn't value it as much. Well, I think that you know,

1038
00:52:18,360 --> 00:52:20,480
Speaker 1: people looked at it and said, well, you know, can

1039
00:52:20,520 --> 00:52:23,000
Speaker 1: he do this again? I don't think so, you know.

1040
00:52:23,040 --> 00:52:25,120
Speaker 1: And so there was a lot of well, prove it

1041
00:52:25,160 --> 00:52:27,040
Speaker 1: to me, and I went, okay, I'll prove it to you.

1042
00:52:27,080 --> 00:52:29,640
Speaker 1: And it took us probably three years to get ourselves back,

1043
00:52:29,640 --> 00:52:33,560
Speaker 1: and because the roster had started to fall apart two

1044
00:52:34,480 --> 00:52:37,879
Speaker 1: um and then we came back basically, you know, with

1045
00:52:38,040 --> 00:52:39,840
Speaker 1: the r C A label group with r C A

1046
00:52:39,920 --> 00:52:43,080
Speaker 1: and B and A changed the way we were staffing

1047
00:52:43,080 --> 00:52:46,400
Speaker 1: the label and how we were approaching things. Um. And

1048
00:52:46,440 --> 00:52:48,279
Speaker 1: then I spent a lot of time during the first

1049
00:52:48,320 --> 00:52:51,520
Speaker 1: couple of years basically taking songwriters. I take them over

1050
00:52:51,520 --> 00:52:54,040
Speaker 1: to the house. I just sit down with him and say, look,

1051
00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:56,920
Speaker 1: this is what we're gonna do. Give us an opportunity.

1052
00:52:57,160 --> 00:52:59,399
Speaker 1: If we don't do what we said we're gonna do,

1053
00:52:59,440 --> 00:53:01,399
Speaker 1: you don't need to. It was the songs, but give

1054
00:53:01,400 --> 00:53:03,680
Speaker 1: me a jump ball. And I did that with a

1055
00:53:03,680 --> 00:53:06,480
Speaker 1: bunch of writers, and you know, found that we started

1056
00:53:06,480 --> 00:53:09,880
Speaker 1: getting the songs again. And you know this down it's songs. Yeah,

1057
00:53:10,120 --> 00:53:12,799
Speaker 1: you know, you get that going. You know, we can

1058
00:53:12,840 --> 00:53:14,760
Speaker 1: make good records. There are a lot of great producers

1059
00:53:14,800 --> 00:53:17,560
Speaker 1: here and musicians, but you need the damn songs and

1060
00:53:17,600 --> 00:53:20,839
Speaker 1: you need them continually, and so we just we did

1061
00:53:20,840 --> 00:53:23,600
Speaker 1: the same thing with songwriters and publishers that we do

1062
00:53:23,719 --> 00:53:27,080
Speaker 1: to radio, treated them better than anybody else, and they

1063
00:53:27,120 --> 00:53:30,279
Speaker 1: found that when we went after it, you gave us

1064
00:53:30,280 --> 00:53:33,800
Speaker 1: a record. We did the job. In my I guess

1065
00:53:33,800 --> 00:53:36,480
Speaker 1: ten years or so. Here now, I've seen a couple

1066
00:53:36,600 --> 00:53:41,520
Speaker 1: of real, you know, medior type successes where someone's like,

1067
00:53:41,600 --> 00:53:44,919
Speaker 1: bam here, I am boom. Superstar doesn't happen a lot,

1068
00:53:45,840 --> 00:53:49,239
Speaker 1: maybe only two that I look at and go, dang,

1069
00:53:49,280 --> 00:53:52,960
Speaker 1: that was quick, and that was that was like extreme success.

1070
00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:55,359
Speaker 1: I missed the al Dean. I missed Al Deane wasn't here.

1071
00:53:55,360 --> 00:53:57,160
Speaker 1: I heard that was a kind of a rocket shift.

1072
00:53:57,480 --> 00:53:59,400
Speaker 1: I was here right after f G L, So I

1073
00:53:59,440 --> 00:54:01,520
Speaker 1: did not that, and I hear that was kind of

1074
00:54:01,520 --> 00:54:05,200
Speaker 1: a rocket ship. Um, obviously I've been here for Combs,

1075
00:54:05,280 --> 00:54:08,839
Speaker 1: Luke Holmbs. I've seen nothing like that before. And even Sam,

1076
00:54:08,880 --> 00:54:12,120
Speaker 1: you know Sam, same kind of way different, just launched

1077
00:54:12,840 --> 00:54:16,160
Speaker 1: universally loved until he got so loved that some people

1078
00:54:16,160 --> 00:54:17,960
Speaker 1: had to be like, I don't love Sam anymore, you know,

1079
00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:19,520
Speaker 1: And I think that's that's always been the goals get

1080
00:54:19,600 --> 00:54:21,160
Speaker 1: so big that you have some sort of backlash right,

1081
00:54:21,160 --> 00:54:23,520
Speaker 1: because that just means you're you're a monster. Who am

1082
00:54:23,520 --> 00:54:27,479
Speaker 1: I missing? And I'm sure I missed many? Who else

1083
00:54:27,520 --> 00:54:29,960
Speaker 1: did you see come into town and just kind of

1084
00:54:29,960 --> 00:54:32,040
Speaker 1: go all right, I'm here, I've got some a little

1085
00:54:32,040 --> 00:54:34,680
Speaker 1: different and then boom away it went what you're you're

1086
00:54:34,680 --> 00:54:37,879
Speaker 1: talking about? No, I'm talking about and just your whole

1087
00:54:37,920 --> 00:54:39,640
Speaker 1: time in Nashville because I've only been able to see

1088
00:54:39,640 --> 00:54:45,960
Speaker 1: the last tim Oh yeah, Faith? Um, the chicks seemed

1089
00:54:45,960 --> 00:54:48,960
Speaker 1: to be so different? Was there? And this analogy is

1090
00:54:49,000 --> 00:54:50,560
Speaker 1: not going to be good when I use Sam. But

1091
00:54:50,680 --> 00:54:53,160
Speaker 1: that's that's all I can really lean on, is that

1092
00:54:53,239 --> 00:54:55,680
Speaker 1: Sam was and listen Sam as country as it gets

1093
00:54:55,719 --> 00:54:58,960
Speaker 1: as a person and grow. Did the chicks have any

1094
00:54:59,040 --> 00:55:01,600
Speaker 1: like they're not as they're not country? Did that happen

1095
00:55:01,640 --> 00:55:04,040
Speaker 1: at all? Not at all? Even though Natalie was really

1096
00:55:04,600 --> 00:55:07,800
Speaker 1: or their sound is different? How about their sound is not? Really? Yeah?

1097
00:55:07,880 --> 00:55:11,200
Speaker 1: I mean those records just they exploded and when they

1098
00:55:11,239 --> 00:55:14,880
Speaker 1: got on stage, you know, they really shined at award shows.

1099
00:55:14,880 --> 00:55:17,040
Speaker 1: So the chicks? Who else? If you can think of Faith, yeah,

1100
00:55:17,239 --> 00:55:19,680
Speaker 1: I mean Faith definitely. When I mean, you know, you

1101
00:55:19,719 --> 00:55:22,279
Speaker 1: start off doing covers and then you all of a

1102
00:55:22,320 --> 00:55:25,760
Speaker 1: sudden you wind up with a song like Breathe. It's huge.

1103
00:55:26,280 --> 00:55:30,160
Speaker 1: It's just you know that pop crossover changes the game dramatically.

1104
00:55:30,440 --> 00:55:33,000
Speaker 1: But the question always is the same thing. How do

1105
00:55:33,080 --> 00:55:35,720
Speaker 1: you follow that? And what do you start doing musically?

1106
00:55:35,760 --> 00:55:37,960
Speaker 1: Do you stay true to your country roots or do

1107
00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:40,000
Speaker 1: you follow what New York and l A Are saying?

1108
00:55:40,239 --> 00:55:42,399
Speaker 1: Give me more of that? And when you do give

1109
00:55:42,400 --> 00:55:44,600
Speaker 1: me more of that, you kind of lose the country base.

1110
00:55:45,080 --> 00:55:48,560
Speaker 1: And that's what happens. You don't get that success. Shania,

1111
00:55:48,600 --> 00:55:51,040
Speaker 1: were you here when that was? Well? What was that like?

1112
00:55:51,400 --> 00:55:54,160
Speaker 1: Oh it was we couldn't believe the numbers. I mean

1113
00:55:54,200 --> 00:55:56,239
Speaker 1: all of us on the other side, we're going, what

1114
00:55:56,320 --> 00:55:58,680
Speaker 1: the that can't be? And it was and it was

1115
00:55:58,719 --> 00:56:03,719
Speaker 1: international and and that very rarely happened. So you have

1116
00:56:03,760 --> 00:56:06,480
Speaker 1: these monster stars in Nashville, and it's someone that's an

1117
00:56:06,480 --> 00:56:10,040
Speaker 1: international star like Shania. Could she be in Nashville and

1118
00:56:10,080 --> 00:56:13,200
Speaker 1: still feel safe? Yeah? I mean the record as long

1119
00:56:13,239 --> 00:56:15,200
Speaker 1: as you know, it's the same old thing. If the

1120
00:56:15,280 --> 00:56:19,600
Speaker 1: music is there, you're okay and you can go internationally.

1121
00:56:19,680 --> 00:56:22,680
Speaker 1: But the reality is when the music starts to tell off,

1122
00:56:22,719 --> 00:56:26,160
Speaker 1: then everybody starts poking holes in you, and by tail off,

1123
00:56:26,200 --> 00:56:27,760
Speaker 1: you mean, if it's not country, you mean the country

1124
00:56:27,760 --> 00:56:30,440
Speaker 1: folk will be like people would take the crossover and

1125
00:56:30,520 --> 00:56:33,880
Speaker 1: be happy with it. But when you start losing and

1126
00:56:33,960 --> 00:56:36,399
Speaker 1: you start again, you go to the other side, making

1127
00:56:36,440 --> 00:56:39,719
Speaker 1: records for pop and not considering your country base, that's

1128
00:56:39,719 --> 00:56:41,480
Speaker 1: when you have a problem. Let me ask you about

1129
00:56:41,480 --> 00:56:44,399
Speaker 1: outlaw country for a second, because the more I read

1130
00:56:44,400 --> 00:56:45,800
Speaker 1: about it, and I do consider myself a bit of

1131
00:56:45,800 --> 00:56:48,840
Speaker 1: a country music historian, and that you know, if they

1132
00:56:48,880 --> 00:56:51,799
Speaker 1: do a documentary on some of the older stars that

1133
00:56:51,800 --> 00:56:53,480
Speaker 1: I grew up watching my grandmother, she was the whole

1134
00:56:53,480 --> 00:56:55,920
Speaker 1: influence on me. Right if it's when they shot the

1135
00:56:55,920 --> 00:56:59,560
Speaker 1: PBS Charlie Pride, I was right there, like I freaking

1136
00:56:59,600 --> 00:57:03,400
Speaker 1: love char Pride, And so I feel like I got

1137
00:57:03,440 --> 00:57:06,160
Speaker 1: a lot of it down just through learning and reading

1138
00:57:06,160 --> 00:57:08,360
Speaker 1: and watching videos. But the outlaw country things interesting to

1139
00:57:08,400 --> 00:57:11,200
Speaker 1: me and slap me in ahead and tell me I'm wrong.

1140
00:57:11,360 --> 00:57:13,680
Speaker 1: But I feel like at first that was very much

1141
00:57:13,680 --> 00:57:17,040
Speaker 1: a marketing tactic. There was the outlet, and and now

1142
00:57:17,240 --> 00:57:20,840
Speaker 1: there's this romantic with old school country fans that it

1143
00:57:20,920 --> 00:57:23,840
Speaker 1: wasn't that they were just robbin stores, and well, I

1144
00:57:23,880 --> 00:57:27,720
Speaker 1: think there's they ran parallel tracks. I mean The idea was,

1145
00:57:27,880 --> 00:57:29,600
Speaker 1: you know, Jerry Bradley, who I was working for, as

1146
00:57:29,600 --> 00:57:32,800
Speaker 1: I said earlier, remember the time Life series of those books.

1147
00:57:33,400 --> 00:57:36,680
Speaker 1: He took that art and that's where was the outlaw.

1148
00:57:37,040 --> 00:57:39,400
Speaker 1: That was the basic outline of the album and called

1149
00:57:39,440 --> 00:57:44,280
Speaker 1: it Outlaw the Outlaws, and uh, you know, I don't know.

1150
00:57:44,400 --> 00:57:47,120
Speaker 1: Tom Paul was an outlaw. Neither was Jesse at that point.

1151
00:57:47,560 --> 00:57:50,600
Speaker 1: But William Whalen, you know, buck the system at that time.

1152
00:57:51,400 --> 00:57:53,520
Speaker 1: You were supposed to be recording in our c A

1153
00:57:53,600 --> 00:57:56,919
Speaker 1: Studios or Columbia studios. That was part of the deal.

1154
00:57:56,960 --> 00:57:59,880
Speaker 1: We had a union and both of those guys that

1155
00:58:00,120 --> 00:58:02,400
Speaker 1: really where the outlaw came from. We're not going to

1156
00:58:02,480 --> 00:58:04,960
Speaker 1: record there. You guys are you know you're on the clock.

1157
00:58:05,600 --> 00:58:07,120
Speaker 1: I don't want to have to follow the clock. I

1158
00:58:07,120 --> 00:58:08,920
Speaker 1: want to be able to record when I want to record,

1159
00:58:08,920 --> 00:58:10,360
Speaker 1: and if I want to go over, I'm gonna go

1160
00:58:10,400 --> 00:58:13,400
Speaker 1: over and I'll pay the overtime for it. And that

1161
00:58:13,560 --> 00:58:16,200
Speaker 1: just didn't sit well with the powers that be, and

1162
00:58:16,240 --> 00:58:20,400
Speaker 1: so they did stuff outside the system, and that was outlaw.

1163
00:58:20,560 --> 00:58:23,800
Speaker 1: So that not punching record executive in the face, spitting

1164
00:58:23,840 --> 00:58:27,560
Speaker 1: on it's out and that again the formula that had

1165
00:58:27,600 --> 00:58:28,800
Speaker 1: been built. They were just going, we don't want to

1166
00:58:28,840 --> 00:58:30,440
Speaker 1: live in this formula because we feel like we can

1167
00:58:30,440 --> 00:58:32,520
Speaker 1: create in a better way, in a different way. Yeah.

1168
00:58:32,520 --> 00:58:39,080
Speaker 1: And also they were the way they approached their music

1169
00:58:39,680 --> 00:58:42,240
Speaker 1: the I mean they were covering you know, Bob Seeger.

1170
00:58:43,720 --> 00:58:46,760
Speaker 1: What is Bob Seger got to do with country? The lyric?

1171
00:58:47,480 --> 00:58:50,520
Speaker 1: I mean, Whalen just you know, supporting Steve Earle when

1172
00:58:50,520 --> 00:58:54,160
Speaker 1: the town wasn't supporting Steve Earle. It really was about

1173
00:58:54,200 --> 00:58:56,320
Speaker 1: the music, the music, the music. If you were with

1174
00:58:56,400 --> 00:58:59,480
Speaker 1: him on the music, you're good to go. What regardless

1175
00:58:59,760 --> 00:59:01,760
Speaker 1: if one up where it went down, He didn't care.

1176
00:59:01,880 --> 00:59:10,080
Speaker 1: He just wanted to make his brandom music. Same with Willie.

1177
00:59:11,000 --> 00:59:13,920
Speaker 1: My grandmother would tell me because Johnny cashy from Arkansas,

1178
00:59:13,920 --> 00:59:15,600
Speaker 1: that's where we grew up, and that she would go

1179
00:59:15,680 --> 00:59:18,400
Speaker 1: to some Johnny cash shows before he really blew up

1180
00:59:18,440 --> 00:59:22,760
Speaker 1: and crossed over because you know rock, he was everywhere Christian,

1181
00:59:22,800 --> 00:59:26,160
Speaker 1: he just covered it all. But when he was a

1182
00:59:26,200 --> 00:59:27,800
Speaker 1: country artist and she knew he was a county artist,

1183
00:59:27,800 --> 00:59:29,280
Speaker 1: people would be at the shows being he's not a

1184
00:59:29,280 --> 00:59:32,280
Speaker 1: country like angry like, he's not a country. And it

1185
00:59:32,320 --> 00:59:35,080
Speaker 1: feels to me like that has always been universally said,

1186
00:59:35,320 --> 00:59:38,680
Speaker 1: like since the beginning, like any sort of movement in

1187
00:59:38,680 --> 00:59:42,200
Speaker 1: any direction, it's always said, well that ain't country. Did

1188
00:59:42,240 --> 00:59:44,960
Speaker 1: you find that to be frustrating in your time? Oh? Sure?

1189
00:59:45,120 --> 00:59:47,720
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I remember the first time we

1190
00:59:47,800 --> 00:59:52,000
Speaker 1: we worked Carrie on She's Just Take the Wheel, and

1191
00:59:52,200 --> 00:59:53,600
Speaker 1: you know, we had a bunch of stations coming back

1192
00:59:53,600 --> 00:59:55,280
Speaker 1: and going, well, she's an American, I don't wanner, she's

1193
00:59:55,320 --> 00:59:58,720
Speaker 1: not country. Listen to the song. What are you talking about?

1194
00:59:58,760 --> 01:00:02,320
Speaker 1: She's not country? You know, girls from Oklahoma listen to

1195
01:00:02,320 --> 01:00:05,080
Speaker 1: her talk? Yeah, what do you want? I mean, you know,

1196
01:00:05,160 --> 01:00:07,200
Speaker 1: she was on a show that gave her a platform,

1197
01:00:07,240 --> 01:00:09,400
Speaker 1: but it doesn't mean that she's not who she is

1198
01:00:09,440 --> 01:00:12,920
Speaker 1: in her heart. But that's I think that's you know,

1199
01:00:13,000 --> 01:00:15,800
Speaker 1: we go back to you know, Leava Newton, John John

1200
01:00:15,840 --> 01:00:18,160
Speaker 1: Denver when they were on the country charts. You know

1201
01:00:18,240 --> 01:00:21,120
Speaker 1: you had people go, Oliver Newton, John, you know, she's

1202
01:00:21,120 --> 01:00:23,640
Speaker 1: not country. What's he doing in here? I mean burning

1203
01:00:24,440 --> 01:00:26,560
Speaker 1: the slip? But his name on a Fredertainer of the Year. Yeah,

1204
01:00:26,640 --> 01:00:30,480
Speaker 1: Charlie Richard, Yeah, I was there at that show. So

1205
01:00:30,560 --> 01:00:33,760
Speaker 1: what Okay, So I've listen, I've seen the show, I've

1206
01:00:33,800 --> 01:00:36,320
Speaker 1: seen the presentation there I've seen you know, John John

1207
01:00:36,320 --> 01:00:41,760
Speaker 1: den He's not there obviously in the room. Are people

1208
01:00:41,800 --> 01:00:44,720
Speaker 1: like ha ha, that's funny, or they like, yeah, that's right,

1209
01:00:44,920 --> 01:00:48,400
Speaker 1: Like what you know. I think going back at that point,

1210
01:00:48,640 --> 01:00:52,760
Speaker 1: a large part of it, it too, is it's business.

1211
01:00:53,680 --> 01:00:56,240
Speaker 1: So what is John Denver doing for you as a

1212
01:00:56,280 --> 01:00:58,920
Speaker 1: publisher or you as a manager, or you as an

1213
01:00:58,920 --> 01:01:02,200
Speaker 1: agent or you I mean, aside from us our c

1214
01:01:02,400 --> 01:01:06,360
Speaker 1: A having the John Denver catalog one of the few

1215
01:01:06,400 --> 01:01:08,520
Speaker 1: beneficiaries in the town. There were some people who had

1216
01:01:08,560 --> 01:01:11,320
Speaker 1: parts of songs. But you know, normally when you know

1217
01:01:11,600 --> 01:01:14,280
Speaker 1: Luke Hombs Wins or Morgan Wahlan wins or you know,

1218
01:01:14,800 --> 01:01:18,360
Speaker 1: Eric church Wins, publishers in the town, producers in the town,

1219
01:01:18,400 --> 01:01:21,640
Speaker 1: everybody sharing in the excitement and the wealth to a

1220
01:01:21,680 --> 01:01:25,680
Speaker 1: certain degree. But also they feel like it's here, You've

1221
01:01:25,720 --> 01:01:29,040
Speaker 1: recorded in Nashville, You've made the record in Nashville. So

1222
01:01:29,080 --> 01:01:31,640
Speaker 1: it's that sense of ownership and also protection to a

1223
01:01:31,640 --> 01:01:33,880
Speaker 1: certain degree. So then by that logic, John Denver was

1224
01:01:33,880 --> 01:01:38,320
Speaker 1: outlaw country. I don't know he would ever said yeah, yeah,

1225
01:01:38,400 --> 01:01:41,440
Speaker 1: I get the point I mean, And John Denver made

1226
01:01:41,440 --> 01:01:48,040
Speaker 1: country songs absolutely absolutely, Thank God, I'm a country boy,

1227
01:01:48,240 --> 01:01:52,000
Speaker 1: and when he did the Awards show, they were highlights.

1228
01:01:52,760 --> 01:01:54,600
Speaker 1: You know, the music shuts everybody up at the end

1229
01:01:54,600 --> 01:01:57,320
Speaker 1: of the day because when you beam in and you're

1230
01:01:57,320 --> 01:01:59,680
Speaker 1: not there, that's one thing. But when you get on

1231
01:01:59,760 --> 01:02:02,439
Speaker 1: there and you bring that fiddle out and everybody goes,

1232
01:02:03,440 --> 01:02:06,640
Speaker 1: I guess he is good. So like Rocky Mountain, I

1233
01:02:06,720 --> 01:02:08,760
Speaker 1: didn't go to all the John Denver songs, and I'm

1234
01:02:08,800 --> 01:02:12,400
Speaker 1: just like I at this stage in two I am

1235
01:02:12,400 --> 01:02:16,600
Speaker 1: a bit in disbelief that John Denver finger quotes wasn't country. Now,

1236
01:02:16,600 --> 01:02:18,960
Speaker 1: I understand why you're saying that, because people feel like

1237
01:02:19,440 --> 01:02:23,120
Speaker 1: he's not one of our group that's helping the couple

1238
01:02:23,200 --> 01:02:26,440
Speaker 1: calling an economy that's helping the economy here. But I mean,

1239
01:02:26,480 --> 01:02:29,040
Speaker 1: I was how do they not think John Denver's country?

1240
01:02:29,240 --> 01:02:31,600
Speaker 1: I love love John Denver and always you know he

1241
01:02:31,640 --> 01:02:34,800
Speaker 1: wasn't even from the Rocky Mountains is what's crazy like

1242
01:02:34,840 --> 01:02:37,280
Speaker 1: to me in my head, he's marketed as the mountain Man.

1243
01:02:38,000 --> 01:02:41,320
Speaker 1: But yeah, he definitely made some country music. Well you're

1244
01:02:41,360 --> 01:02:43,120
Speaker 1: going to the Hall of Fame. I I just that

1245
01:02:43,280 --> 01:02:45,840
Speaker 1: is that is just so cool. I wish I had

1246
01:02:45,960 --> 01:02:48,240
Speaker 1: could be more poignant there and but that is just

1247
01:02:48,280 --> 01:02:51,280
Speaker 1: so freaking cool that you're going to the Country Music

1248
01:02:51,320 --> 01:02:55,160
Speaker 1: Hall of Fame. Thank you. That's um. You know. One

1249
01:02:55,200 --> 01:02:57,760
Speaker 1: of the things I've been doing over the last decade

1250
01:02:57,920 --> 01:03:00,240
Speaker 1: is I've been going to those press conferences and just

1251
01:03:00,400 --> 01:03:02,880
Speaker 1: because I've had so many artists that I've signed or

1252
01:03:03,000 --> 01:03:08,440
Speaker 1: friends who have gone in, and I think of all

1253
01:03:08,480 --> 01:03:10,840
Speaker 1: the things that I've done, it's one of the most

1254
01:03:11,080 --> 01:03:14,080
Speaker 1: intimate nights and special nights. You know. We're always used

1255
01:03:14,120 --> 01:03:17,040
Speaker 1: to big things, especially on our award shows and everything else,

1256
01:03:17,640 --> 01:03:21,160
Speaker 1: but this is a much smaller, more intimate part of it,

1257
01:03:21,240 --> 01:03:26,680
Speaker 1: and it represents people that aren't always entertainers and recognizes

1258
01:03:26,760 --> 01:03:29,240
Speaker 1: their work. So you know, Eddie Bears goes in, or

1259
01:03:29,400 --> 01:03:31,560
Speaker 1: you know, you sit there and you go, oh my god,

1260
01:03:32,080 --> 01:03:34,680
Speaker 1: and you hear the story, you understand what's going on,

1261
01:03:34,800 --> 01:03:37,640
Speaker 1: you know, and it could be Ronny and Kicks. I mean,

1262
01:03:37,960 --> 01:03:41,200
Speaker 1: when Ronny and Kicks were getting ready to introduced me

1263
01:03:41,240 --> 01:03:43,360
Speaker 1: and we were talking about and what was your reaction

1264
01:03:43,360 --> 01:03:45,560
Speaker 1: when you heard about it? And Kicks looked at Ronny

1265
01:03:45,600 --> 01:03:47,120
Speaker 1: and he said, we just looked at one another and

1266
01:03:47,160 --> 01:03:51,640
Speaker 1: one you gotta be kidding, you know, which is basically

1267
01:03:51,640 --> 01:03:56,000
Speaker 1: how I felt like, because you really don't expect and

1268
01:03:56,520 --> 01:03:58,720
Speaker 1: I don't think anybody ever ain't that I know of

1269
01:03:58,840 --> 01:04:02,480
Speaker 1: aims for it. You just you your job and you know,

1270
01:04:02,720 --> 01:04:05,520
Speaker 1: the God smile upon you you get in there. I

1271
01:04:05,640 --> 01:04:08,640
Speaker 1: got three final things for the number one's Keith Whitley.

1272
01:04:08,880 --> 01:04:12,280
Speaker 1: He's going in with you. What do you remember by Keith?

1273
01:04:13,400 --> 01:04:17,720
Speaker 1: Oh God, the voice, the smile, the sense of humor,

1274
01:04:18,480 --> 01:04:22,840
Speaker 1: the love of the format. Oh my god. He just

1275
01:04:24,920 --> 01:04:29,640
Speaker 1: you know, I think back to those Well, it's the

1276
01:04:29,720 --> 01:04:32,600
Speaker 1: same thing. You start to go down that path and

1277
01:04:32,680 --> 01:04:36,040
Speaker 1: it's just bump after bump and you're finally starting to

1278
01:04:36,080 --> 01:04:39,280
Speaker 1: make your headway. Miami, Miami. You know you're starting to

1279
01:04:39,320 --> 01:04:43,040
Speaker 1: get there. You make this record that would have catapulted

1280
01:04:43,120 --> 01:04:45,960
Speaker 1: him into the male vocus of the year. On those

1281
01:04:45,960 --> 01:04:48,040
Speaker 1: strange with the reign, you know, you just go, oh

1282
01:04:48,120 --> 01:04:51,680
Speaker 1: my god, and then he's gone. And then the fact

1283
01:04:51,720 --> 01:04:54,520
Speaker 1: that it was Laurie and Keith, it would have been

1284
01:04:54,520 --> 01:04:57,520
Speaker 1: George and Tammy all over again, because those two singing together,

1285
01:04:58,160 --> 01:05:05,600
Speaker 1: those are two great classic country voices. But Keith, um,

1286
01:05:05,640 --> 01:05:07,040
Speaker 1: you know you were talking about what I was talking

1287
01:05:07,200 --> 01:05:10,680
Speaker 1: before about being a label head, and I mean I

1288
01:05:10,720 --> 01:05:13,760
Speaker 1: had dealt with whaling through some of the drug problems

1289
01:05:14,560 --> 01:05:17,200
Speaker 1: and him getting clean. But I hadn't been on the

1290
01:05:17,200 --> 01:05:21,880
Speaker 1: other side. I had been an observer. And nobody tells

1291
01:05:21,920 --> 01:05:25,200
Speaker 1: you about addiction. You know, it's not something that you know.

1292
01:05:25,320 --> 01:05:28,640
Speaker 1: You you learn as you're getting in this whole thing.

1293
01:05:28,680 --> 01:05:31,680
Speaker 1: But you know, we tried so many different ways to

1294
01:05:31,720 --> 01:05:34,960
Speaker 1: get Keith to get clean. And you know, I remember

1295
01:05:35,000 --> 01:05:38,520
Speaker 1: sitting down talking to the the therapist and saying, if

1296
01:05:38,520 --> 01:05:40,400
Speaker 1: he doesn't want to do it, you can't make him

1297
01:05:40,440 --> 01:05:44,240
Speaker 1: do it. And so it was one of those things

1298
01:05:44,280 --> 01:05:48,920
Speaker 1: that you just it was such a such a loss

1299
01:05:48,920 --> 01:05:51,400
Speaker 1: in such a waste. At the same time, there's a

1300
01:05:51,480 --> 01:05:54,000
Speaker 1: very personal question regarding that. And I'll tell you at

1301
01:05:54,040 --> 01:05:57,240
Speaker 1: the same situation with my mom, and you know, my

1302
01:05:57,320 --> 01:05:59,479
Speaker 1: mom died very young of drugs and alcohol. I would

1303
01:05:59,520 --> 01:06:01,000
Speaker 1: check her into read Haves and I would say the

1304
01:06:01,000 --> 01:06:02,200
Speaker 1: same thing, like what do we gotta do here? And

1305
01:06:02,200 --> 01:06:05,160
Speaker 1: they're like, well, you can do this, and you can

1306
01:06:05,200 --> 01:06:07,920
Speaker 1: pound the hammer and you can, but if she doesn't

1307
01:06:07,960 --> 01:06:09,920
Speaker 1: want to do it, it is never going to happen.

1308
01:06:09,920 --> 01:06:12,720
Speaker 1: And that was a really hard thing for me to accept.

1309
01:06:12,920 --> 01:06:15,560
Speaker 1: I don't know that I still accepted, honestly, And I

1310
01:06:16,000 --> 01:06:19,360
Speaker 1: get it, and I understand it, but there's a very

1311
01:06:19,480 --> 01:06:24,080
Speaker 1: very difficult thing for me, and there's still guilt that

1312
01:06:24,200 --> 01:06:29,360
Speaker 1: I have even trying to facilitate, trying to support, you know,

1313
01:06:29,480 --> 01:06:33,800
Speaker 1: with you going through that situation with him, any of

1314
01:06:33,800 --> 01:06:38,360
Speaker 1: those feelings, because what happened was Laurie called me. We

1315
01:06:38,360 --> 01:06:40,400
Speaker 1: were launching Laurie's record and we were about to do

1316
01:06:40,440 --> 01:06:44,080
Speaker 1: the promo tour and she called and she said, what

1317
01:06:44,160 --> 01:06:45,800
Speaker 1: do I do? I mean, I don't know whether he

1318
01:06:45,840 --> 01:06:49,200
Speaker 1: can handle my being gone. I said, Laurie, it's your call,

1319
01:06:49,360 --> 01:06:53,200
Speaker 1: but this is what you want to do. I mean,

1320
01:06:53,240 --> 01:06:55,280
Speaker 1: I was going to be anybody with Keith, and she said, yeah,

1321
01:06:55,280 --> 01:06:58,080
Speaker 1: there will be people with him, and the decision was

1322
01:06:58,120 --> 01:07:02,520
Speaker 1: made to move forward. But in he died. Um my

1323
01:07:02,640 --> 01:07:05,919
Speaker 1: fiance and Randy Goodman came running in to Maud's down

1324
01:07:06,040 --> 01:07:07,720
Speaker 1: the road. At that point, I was having lunch with

1325
01:07:07,800 --> 01:07:10,560
Speaker 1: Eddie yar Old and and motion for me to come

1326
01:07:10,560 --> 01:07:13,520
Speaker 1: over and said, Keith just died, And so I hurried

1327
01:07:13,520 --> 01:07:15,920
Speaker 1: through my lunch with Eddie because we had a fine Laurie.

1328
01:07:16,560 --> 01:07:20,200
Speaker 1: Laurie was on the road, nobody had cell phones. She

1329
01:07:20,280 --> 01:07:22,160
Speaker 1: was in a car going and you did not want

1330
01:07:22,200 --> 01:07:24,800
Speaker 1: to hear that come over the air. Hey, Keith Whitley

1331
01:07:24,880 --> 01:07:26,760
Speaker 1: is just DoD. We're really sad about that. And she's

1332
01:07:26,800 --> 01:07:29,320
Speaker 1: in a freaking car and we found her in Seattle,

1333
01:07:29,360 --> 01:07:31,560
Speaker 1: thank god before it happened, and then flew her back.

1334
01:07:31,640 --> 01:07:35,520
Speaker 1: But I remember getting that album and driving around the

1335
01:07:35,600 --> 01:07:39,000
Speaker 1: row for hours just playing it over and over again

1336
01:07:39,040 --> 01:07:41,120
Speaker 1: because Garth Fundas and I had gone in the studio

1337
01:07:41,160 --> 01:07:44,160
Speaker 1: and I went, it's that album that you're just sitting

1338
01:07:44,200 --> 01:07:49,360
Speaker 1: there and going, oh my god, this is perfection commercially, artistically,

1339
01:07:49,600 --> 01:07:52,280
Speaker 1: it is the soul that he is. He has, It's

1340
01:07:52,360 --> 01:07:56,520
Speaker 1: just it's there, and then just crying because it You know,

1341
01:07:58,440 --> 01:08:01,080
Speaker 1: did I do the right thing? You know? I appreciate

1342
01:08:01,080 --> 01:08:03,880
Speaker 1: you sharing that story with me. Uh, this is number

1343
01:08:03,880 --> 01:08:07,320
Speaker 1: two of three. You miss it? You know you're retired now,

1344
01:08:08,040 --> 01:08:11,480
Speaker 1: you know it's what I know when I can sense

1345
01:08:11,520 --> 01:08:14,120
Speaker 1: And you're such a creative. Even though I don't know

1346
01:08:14,120 --> 01:08:16,479
Speaker 1: if you'll give yourself credit for being a creative, you

1347
01:08:16,520 --> 01:08:18,360
Speaker 1: are because you've changed so many things and how this

1348
01:08:18,400 --> 01:08:22,479
Speaker 1: industry was is and it's still do I mean, it's

1349
01:08:22,479 --> 01:08:29,559
Speaker 1: still working towards Do you miss it? I miss the

1350
01:08:29,640 --> 01:08:33,960
Speaker 1: process of making the music. Um, I don't miss all

1351
01:08:34,000 --> 01:08:36,960
Speaker 1: the the bull that we went through now, especially with

1352
01:08:37,040 --> 01:08:41,320
Speaker 1: the corporations and all the initiatives they have and and

1353
01:08:41,360 --> 01:08:44,360
Speaker 1: the way the system has changed where people are. It's

1354
01:08:44,360 --> 01:08:47,080
Speaker 1: so much about data and enough to me about gut

1355
01:08:47,680 --> 01:08:49,439
Speaker 1: because I can't tell you how many times we made

1356
01:08:49,439 --> 01:08:52,880
Speaker 1: a decision. It was kind of like, take this shot,

1357
01:08:53,360 --> 01:08:55,800
Speaker 1: and you know, it's a game of chances. Sometimes it

1358
01:08:55,840 --> 01:08:58,000
Speaker 1: works and sometimes it doesn't. And you could have all

1359
01:08:58,040 --> 01:08:59,640
Speaker 1: the data in the world. Doesn't mean that some you

1360
01:08:59,680 --> 01:09:01,680
Speaker 1: were talking about before in terms of songs, do you

1361
01:09:01,720 --> 01:09:04,400
Speaker 1: think this works? It doesn't. I didn't think this one.

1362
01:09:05,160 --> 01:09:06,960
Speaker 1: It's just that game. You don't know till the people

1363
01:09:07,000 --> 01:09:09,200
Speaker 1: get a chance to really spend the time with it.

1364
01:09:09,720 --> 01:09:12,800
Speaker 1: But that's the part I miss. However, you know, I've

1365
01:09:12,840 --> 01:09:15,360
Speaker 1: spent that time since I stepped down with the c

1366
01:09:15,520 --> 01:09:18,519
Speaker 1: m A. And I still work with Kenny, so I

1367
01:09:18,920 --> 01:09:22,240
Speaker 1: get my fix. You know, it comes in and it

1368
01:09:22,280 --> 01:09:24,640
Speaker 1: comes in lots of different ways, working Robert Deaton on

1369
01:09:24,680 --> 01:09:30,599
Speaker 1: the award shows and everything else. Um, but no, not anymore.

1370
01:09:30,800 --> 01:09:33,880
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I feel like when I ended,

1371
01:09:33,920 --> 01:09:37,160
Speaker 1: you know, Miranda was the last act that I actually

1372
01:09:37,200 --> 01:09:41,360
Speaker 1: broke through and that that felt great. And so to

1373
01:09:41,400 --> 01:09:44,560
Speaker 1: see what she's doing after that has been really satisfying.

1374
01:09:44,600 --> 01:09:47,840
Speaker 1: But now I'm good. I guess that's how you want

1375
01:09:47,840 --> 01:09:50,040
Speaker 1: to feel. That's all. Yeah. The last thing I'll say is,

1376
01:09:50,040 --> 01:09:51,479
Speaker 1: and it's not really a question, but it's more of

1377
01:09:51,520 --> 01:09:54,400
Speaker 1: a just from me to you, a very personal thing.

1378
01:09:54,439 --> 01:10:00,080
Speaker 1: It's you know, when I got to this town, I

1379
01:10:00,600 --> 01:10:03,240
Speaker 1: maybe I remember it differently. I didn't feel very welcomed

1380
01:10:03,280 --> 01:10:05,920
Speaker 1: here for a while. For for many years. Uh, you know,

1381
01:10:05,920 --> 01:10:09,320
Speaker 1: I didn't where a cowboy hat. I definitely. I grew

1382
01:10:09,400 --> 01:10:11,559
Speaker 1: up in a rural part of the South, but also

1383
01:10:11,600 --> 01:10:13,760
Speaker 1: had influences that weren't just country and was very open

1384
01:10:13,800 --> 01:10:17,880
Speaker 1: about it on a platform that that wasn't really appreciated,

1385
01:10:17,960 --> 01:10:20,559
Speaker 1: especially at the time. Now cultures changed. I think I've

1386
01:10:20,560 --> 01:10:23,639
Speaker 1: been a big part of trying to move it forward

1387
01:10:23,680 --> 01:10:27,000
Speaker 1: a little bit um while also appreciating the history of

1388
01:10:27,000 --> 01:10:32,040
Speaker 1: it and from in my career doing radio, doing television,

1389
01:10:32,400 --> 01:10:34,479
Speaker 1: doing comedy and books and all these things that I've

1390
01:10:34,520 --> 01:10:36,960
Speaker 1: just never knew how to do. I just attack and

1391
01:10:37,479 --> 01:10:39,840
Speaker 1: just punch until something moves, you know, and then you're like,

1392
01:10:39,840 --> 01:10:41,720
Speaker 1: oh that that moves about punch. Let me keep going

1393
01:10:42,479 --> 01:10:45,240
Speaker 1: over the past four or five or six years. You know,

1394
01:10:45,280 --> 01:10:48,439
Speaker 1: it's been Hey, we have this awards show, and I'll

1395
01:10:48,439 --> 01:10:50,280
Speaker 1: be in the conversation to host the show, and I'll

1396
01:10:50,320 --> 01:10:52,840
Speaker 1: hear the people that are like, he can't other radio companies, No,

1397
01:10:52,920 --> 01:10:54,720
Speaker 1: we don't want him. We'll boycott the show if he did.

1398
01:10:56,360 --> 01:10:59,479
Speaker 1: The one person that it comes back to me, who

1399
01:10:59,560 --> 01:11:04,640
Speaker 1: is constantly publicly or privately in my corner, as in,

1400
01:11:04,840 --> 01:11:07,880
Speaker 1: you just have to consider this guy because he has

1401
01:11:07,920 --> 01:11:11,880
Speaker 1: the skill set to do it, and he should at

1402
01:11:11,920 --> 01:11:15,519
Speaker 1: least be looked at, is you. And I don't even

1403
01:11:15,520 --> 01:11:18,000
Speaker 1: know you. And they would come back and say, you know,

1404
01:11:18,080 --> 01:11:20,479
Speaker 1: it's kind of got your back, and I was like, well,

1405
01:11:20,479 --> 01:11:21,840
Speaker 1: I wouldn't even go and say hi to him, like

1406
01:11:21,840 --> 01:11:23,600
Speaker 1: he's too much a big wig. I would never go.

1407
01:11:23,960 --> 01:11:28,720
Speaker 1: And and so my introduction to appreciating you as a

1408
01:11:28,800 --> 01:11:31,320
Speaker 1: person was I didn't have to be me, but you

1409
01:11:31,360 --> 01:11:32,920
Speaker 1: were just sticking up for somebody you didn't know. You

1410
01:11:32,960 --> 01:11:34,880
Speaker 1: had no interest in me, not as a part. We

1411
01:11:34,880 --> 01:11:36,240
Speaker 1: don't know each other. It wasn't like you're fighting for

1412
01:11:36,240 --> 01:11:39,280
Speaker 1: your friend. But but I just always appreciated that because

1413
01:11:39,320 --> 01:11:42,280
Speaker 1: I know that wasn't the popular thing to do. And

1414
01:11:42,280 --> 01:11:44,519
Speaker 1: you're in there with a bunch of radio people and listen,

1415
01:11:44,520 --> 01:11:47,200
Speaker 1: it's changed a little now and I get to turn

1416
01:11:47,240 --> 01:11:49,120
Speaker 1: stuff down now, which is the coolest thing ever, the

1417
01:11:49,160 --> 01:11:53,040
Speaker 1: greatest thing, no doubt about it. And if you know,

1418
01:11:53,080 --> 01:11:56,800
Speaker 1: and there have been offers and situations, and now I

1419
01:11:56,800 --> 01:11:58,200
Speaker 1: get to go I don't think this is right for me.

1420
01:11:58,280 --> 01:12:00,040
Speaker 1: But I didn't always get to do that. But the

1421
01:12:00,080 --> 01:12:02,479
Speaker 1: one person that people would come and go, hey, man,

1422
01:12:02,560 --> 01:12:05,479
Speaker 1: Joe was like saying, we should have they should stop

1423
01:12:05,800 --> 01:12:08,040
Speaker 1: just shutting it down immediately and at least look at

1424
01:12:08,040 --> 01:12:11,439
Speaker 1: it was you, so just eyeball to eyeball, Like I

1425
01:12:11,520 --> 01:12:13,640
Speaker 1: just really appreciated that because I didn't feel like I

1426
01:12:13,640 --> 01:12:16,080
Speaker 1: had any allies in this town. I think the town

1427
01:12:16,760 --> 01:12:18,080
Speaker 1: I went through the same thing you do. When I

1428
01:12:18,160 --> 01:12:20,080
Speaker 1: first got here. The last thing I did was fuel

1429
01:12:20,240 --> 01:12:23,840
Speaker 1: at home. It took quite some time. You know, you're

1430
01:12:23,880 --> 01:12:26,640
Speaker 1: the outsider. You are the outsider, and you're trying to

1431
01:12:26,640 --> 01:12:29,080
Speaker 1: do things that are different. I got this message from

1432
01:12:29,120 --> 01:12:33,400
Speaker 1: Tarling Monkey called me after uh the announcement, and he said,

1433
01:12:33,520 --> 01:12:35,160
Speaker 1: I just he left the voice mail. I still have

1434
01:12:35,240 --> 01:12:37,000
Speaker 1: it here. I kept it. He said, you know, when

1435
01:12:37,040 --> 01:12:39,360
Speaker 1: I met you, I thought you were a goddamn snot

1436
01:12:39,400 --> 01:12:43,200
Speaker 1: nos Yankee kid who couldn't do ship, you know, I

1437
01:12:43,240 --> 01:12:46,519
Speaker 1: mean that kind of stuff, and so he said, and

1438
01:12:46,840 --> 01:12:49,360
Speaker 1: I called him back and I said, I was, I was.

1439
01:12:49,439 --> 01:12:52,760
Speaker 1: I was that guy. But you know, I learned and

1440
01:12:52,800 --> 01:12:56,280
Speaker 1: I went through it and I gained respect and love

1441
01:12:56,840 --> 01:12:59,280
Speaker 1: for what I was doing in the people around. And

1442
01:12:59,360 --> 01:13:01,880
Speaker 1: you did this thing. I mean, to be honest with you.

1443
01:13:01,960 --> 01:13:03,479
Speaker 1: The first time I met you. I don't know if

1444
01:13:03,520 --> 01:13:05,720
Speaker 1: you remember. This was over John Ivy's house. I think

1445
01:13:05,720 --> 01:13:08,960
Speaker 1: it was a holiday. You just got into town and

1446
01:13:09,080 --> 01:13:11,000
Speaker 1: John was I mean, John has been a friend of

1447
01:13:11,040 --> 01:13:14,120
Speaker 1: mine for I did another yeah long, and he's been

1448
01:13:14,800 --> 01:13:17,880
Speaker 1: great to us as a company for a long period

1449
01:13:17,920 --> 01:13:19,519
Speaker 1: time because he was always that guy that would go.

1450
01:13:22,000 --> 01:13:23,880
Speaker 1: I mean. One of the stories I have on John

1451
01:13:24,040 --> 01:13:27,479
Speaker 1: was in New York. He said. He called Butcher and

1452
01:13:27,479 --> 01:13:29,599
Speaker 1: he said, we had where were you in the World's Atorney.

1453
01:13:29,640 --> 01:13:31,479
Speaker 1: He said, if you can get Alan to take the

1454
01:13:31,479 --> 01:13:34,439
Speaker 1: steel out of that song, I'll play it on Kiss FM,

1455
01:13:34,520 --> 01:13:38,240
Speaker 1: Los Angeles Pop stesition. Yeah, And I said, Butcher, I'll

1456
01:13:38,280 --> 01:13:40,960
Speaker 1: make the call, but I gotta tell you Alan Jackson

1457
01:13:41,320 --> 01:13:44,200
Speaker 1: and no steel, I don't think that's happening. Call Alan,

1458
01:13:44,200 --> 01:13:47,800
Speaker 1: and I said, Allen Big Top forty radio station will

1459
01:13:47,800 --> 01:13:50,879
Speaker 1: play this record. The guys a really good friend of ours.

1460
01:13:51,040 --> 01:13:53,360
Speaker 1: But I don't know how you feel about this. Well,

1461
01:13:53,400 --> 01:13:56,280
Speaker 1: what do they want to take? The steal out is

1462
01:13:56,320 --> 01:14:04,200
Speaker 1: like one two three. I like Steve in the story,

1463
01:14:04,560 --> 01:14:07,040
Speaker 1: but John is a guy that if he comes in

1464
01:14:07,120 --> 01:14:12,280
Speaker 1: and says, guy's gonna do something, you know, I'm good.

1465
01:14:12,439 --> 01:14:14,479
Speaker 1: We've been together a long time through the trenches. But

1466
01:14:14,760 --> 01:14:16,840
Speaker 1: quite honestly, I mean what you've done. I mean, you

1467
01:14:16,880 --> 01:14:19,800
Speaker 1: know people are bidding against you and you just go no,

1468
01:14:20,000 --> 01:14:22,120
Speaker 1: I can do this, and you've done that, and you've

1469
01:14:22,160 --> 01:14:25,120
Speaker 1: gone outside of the genre, and you know you'll keep

1470
01:14:25,120 --> 01:14:28,280
Speaker 1: working at your craft and keep improving and winding the

1471
01:14:28,960 --> 01:14:32,000
Speaker 1: goal post for yourself. So congratulations to yourself. Well, not

1472
01:14:32,120 --> 01:14:35,200
Speaker 1: about me. I just wanted to say I appreciated you. Um,

1473
01:14:35,240 --> 01:14:42,000
Speaker 1: you've impacted my confidence in the town and so I

1474
01:14:42,000 --> 01:14:45,920
Speaker 1: appreciate that. But congratulations, man. It's awesome. It's an honor

1475
01:14:45,960 --> 01:14:48,040
Speaker 1: to have you here for an hour. You have affected

1476
01:14:48,040 --> 01:14:50,720
Speaker 1: this format in so many ways that people don't even know,

1477
01:14:50,840 --> 01:14:53,200
Speaker 1: and you probably don't even remember all the ways. It's

1478
01:14:53,200 --> 01:14:55,360
Speaker 1: just it's one after the other. I could do three hours,

1479
01:14:55,960 --> 01:14:57,840
Speaker 1: but I entered my calf because I'm getting older and

1480
01:14:57,840 --> 01:15:00,200
Speaker 1: now I got to go to a physical therapist. It's

1481
01:15:00,400 --> 01:15:05,000
Speaker 1: it's life. It's life now. H Yeah. I don't think

1482
01:15:05,040 --> 01:15:06,600
Speaker 1: I've had this kind of edge of my voice in

1483
01:15:06,640 --> 01:15:09,040
Speaker 1: a long time. I'm sorry about it. Well, Joe, thank you.

1484
01:15:09,439 --> 01:15:11,720
Speaker 1: I'll just end with that, thank you. This has been

1485
01:15:11,760 --> 01:15:15,040
Speaker 1: a real treat and hopefully I'll see you soon. Thanks

1486
01:15:15,040 --> 01:15:15,080
Speaker 1: for