WEBVTT - Andy Wirth

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast.

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<v Speaker 1>My guest today is Andy Wirth, co founder and CEO

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<v Speaker 1>of Peak Skis Andy, how do you know Body Miller

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<v Speaker 1>your partner, Bob.

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<v Speaker 2>Great to be here and really an honor to be

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<v Speaker 2>on your show, and also total dig on your Joe

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<v Speaker 2>Walsh riff that brings us into the show. One of

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<v Speaker 2>the great songs of all time.

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<v Speaker 1>Wait wait, wait, most people don't recognize it. That's Meadows,

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<v Speaker 1>the first song on the second side of the Smoker

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<v Speaker 1>you drink the player that you get. How do you

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<v Speaker 1>know that?

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<v Speaker 2>I am a music fan. I played guitar. He used

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<v Speaker 2>to play a little bit better than I do nowadays

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<v Speaker 2>because of this lile accident ten years ago. But I

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<v Speaker 2>have loved and appreciated anybody who can play guitar well,

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<v Speaker 2>regardless of genre. And I first cut my teeth on

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<v Speaker 2>Joe Walsh Gosh, I know, early eighties, late eighties, seventies,

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<v Speaker 2>something like that, and just love that album. And Rocky

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<v Speaker 2>Mountain Way a different album though.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, well that's the opening track on that.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but then Mountain Meadow excuse me, love that I like. Also,

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<v Speaker 2>how on your show you took out the oh really

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<v Speaker 2>and yeah at the.

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<v Speaker 1>Beginning of the song me you really know it? That's

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<v Speaker 1>for sure.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh no. I listened to that tune probably about fifteen times,

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<v Speaker 2>and then I've also played it on guitar a tenth

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<v Speaker 2>as good as Joe Walsh about three hundred times. So yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>great tune, cool cool selection. What's your story on it?

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<v Speaker 2>What is the deal?

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<v Speaker 1>I mean there's I mean, I'm a big Joe Walsh fan.

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<v Speaker 1>Joe said I could use it, but I knew the track.

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<v Speaker 1>But his final albums ABC Dunhill Deal. He put out

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<v Speaker 1>a live album which was actually a TV show. And

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<v Speaker 1>I was driving from Salt Lake back to Connecticut and

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<v Speaker 1>I played the six cassettes that I bought. I never

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<v Speaker 1>bought cassettes, but I didn't have a tape player. That

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<v Speaker 1>was one of them, and I think of They'll passed,

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<v Speaker 1>which used to be difficult but now since has been

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<v Speaker 1>for many years. Four lane but at the top it's

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<v Speaker 1>like a meadow and I remember playing that right in

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<v Speaker 1>that area. But you have a relationship with Eddie Vedder.

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<v Speaker 1>How do you know Eddie Vedder?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I don't know, I'm well, but I've been a

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<v Speaker 2>fan of Pearl Jam going back to along with about

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<v Speaker 2>ten billion other people early nineties, with everything that they

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<v Speaker 2>put out starting in ninety two ninety three. And like

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<v Speaker 2>I said, love all kind of music. I probably go

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<v Speaker 2>deepest on country, country, Western, both types of music. But

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<v Speaker 2>at the same time was always into Zeppelin, Aerosmith and

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<v Speaker 2>the great guitar players Joe Walsh and the like you

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<v Speaker 2>name it, but then got into Pearl Jam. And what's

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<v Speaker 2>interesting is I had a bad skydamming accident about ten

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<v Speaker 2>years ago. In fact, coming up on the ten year

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<v Speaker 2>anniversary of that accident, which I want I call my

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<v Speaker 2>live day. When we talked about that week, certainly can

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<v Speaker 2>but one of his tunes that I really accidentally came into,

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<v Speaker 2>accidentally stumbled into, came to me at a very critical

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<v Speaker 2>moment what I was bleeding out and dying, and I

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<v Speaker 2>eventually died, but they brought me back and which worked

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<v Speaker 2>out well. It was a good day. But one of

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<v Speaker 2>his tunes called just Breathe was halfway through the closing

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<v Speaker 2>credits of a movie about a very good friend of

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<v Speaker 2>mine who's a good, great horseman. His name is Buck

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<v Speaker 2>Branneman out of Sheridan, Wyoming. He had worked with Nicholas

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<v Speaker 2>Sparks on the movie the book A Horse Whisper with

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<v Speaker 2>Redford on the movie Horse Whisper. But he had been

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<v Speaker 2>doing a whole bunch of horse work for years and years,

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<v Speaker 2>and they made this indie film about him, One Sun Dance,

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<v Speaker 2>and I'm watching it for the first time and halfway

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<v Speaker 2>through the ending of the closing credits, just brief comes

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<v Speaker 2>on and it just doesn't make any sense. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>you got to keep in mind that when I introduced

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<v Speaker 2>Buck in Steamwa Springs, Colorado, where I used to live,

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<v Speaker 2>to Tanny Tucker, I mean, that was the deal. I

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<v Speaker 2>mean he thought tannyse the sun rose and said on

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<v Speaker 2>Tanny Tucker, and he probably right. It probably still does.

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<v Speaker 2>But in this case caught me off guard because what

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<v Speaker 2>is a Pearl Jam song doing at the end of

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<v Speaker 2>a movie about Buck? Brannman curious called him found out

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<v Speaker 2>four months later. And I had known this song. This

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<v Speaker 2>song came to me at a very critical crucial time.

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<v Speaker 1>Right before you get there.

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<v Speaker 2>How did it end up in the movie. It had

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<v Speaker 2>to do with his upbringing and his life. And I

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<v Speaker 2>highly recommend watching this movie. Whether or not you're into

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<v Speaker 2>horses kind of doesn't matter. And he had a really

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<v Speaker 2>really rough upbringing in a town called Ennis, Montana, which

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<v Speaker 2>I happened to live nowadays, about fifteen twenty minutes away

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<v Speaker 2>from Ennis, and he just got the crap beat out

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<v Speaker 2>of him by his dad. It was bullshit. Angers me

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<v Speaker 2>to think about it as part of him navigating that

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<v Speaker 2>and a's who he is today because of that. He

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<v Speaker 2>mentioned that song just fit, It just worked, and the

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<v Speaker 2>song had meeting and more so that's how it kind

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<v Speaker 2>of related to his It was a tip of the hat,

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<v Speaker 2>regardless of the music type, tip of the hat to

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<v Speaker 2>what that song speaks to. Okay, so let's go back

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<v Speaker 2>ten years ago. You're skydiving. How much experience had you

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<v Speaker 2>had skydiving? A fair amount. I've got what's called AFF

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<v Speaker 2>Accelerated free Fall Certification.

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<v Speaker 1>What is that.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a licensed certification to jump. It's like get in

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<v Speaker 2>your driver's license. And I never sought to wanted to

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<v Speaker 2>jump in a tandem. So I ended up getting AFF

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<v Speaker 2>this certification, and it ended up jumping a bunch with

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<v Speaker 2>friends that you might might know of or no from

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<v Speaker 2>Squaw Valley, JT. Holmes and Timmy Dutton, the late Great

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<v Speaker 2>Timmy Dutton, and a few others. Charles Bryan RedBull air

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<v Speaker 2>Force guy, and I had to. I had to. I

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<v Speaker 2>got to jump with them quite a bit, actually, Paris,

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<v Speaker 2>Lodi Davis, all over California anytime could find an airplane

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<v Speaker 2>with the door love jump out of it. So got

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<v Speaker 2>into that in a substantial way and had a fair

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<v Speaker 2>amount of experience. The thing is jumping with these guys.

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<v Speaker 2>I had the opportunity. Most of them had jumps well

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<v Speaker 2>over ten or fifteen thousand. Most of them actually jump

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<v Speaker 2>for a living. Most of the guys that I would

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<v Speaker 2>jump with with whom I would jump excuse me, would

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<v Speaker 2>would actually be in films. You know. JT worked with

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<v Speaker 2>on Transformers three. I mean, these are very high level folks.

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<v Speaker 2>So I was kind of the rookie tagging along. But

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<v Speaker 2>because of that I got a fair amount of experience

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<v Speaker 2>quickly and had the opportunity to jump with some outstanding people.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, so tell us about this day ten years ago.

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<v Speaker 2>So, by the way, I love it. Have you ever

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<v Speaker 2>done it?

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<v Speaker 1>I never have.

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<v Speaker 2>By that look, it doesn't look like it's on your well.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, I like being in control. It's like when

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<v Speaker 1>someone said, you know, I remember when someone said, let's

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<v Speaker 1>go to mammoth for the day, and there's this airplane

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<v Speaker 1>these people have with a parachute whatever. But he was

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<v Speaker 1>an instrument rated and I said, no, it's like if

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<v Speaker 1>I'm going to commercial jet, I'm not worried, or if

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<v Speaker 1>you're flying net jet or something like that. So there's

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<v Speaker 1>certain Let's put it this way, if I die on

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<v Speaker 1>the hill, if I run into a tree or god knowed,

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<v Speaker 1>or an avalanche whatever inbounds, that's okay with me. But

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<v Speaker 1>there's certain things I don't want to take a risk doing.

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<v Speaker 1>Begging the question, other than skydiving, are you a limit

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<v Speaker 1>tester in other areas? Oh.

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<v Speaker 2>I quote my good friend JT, who he's been on

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<v Speaker 2>sixty Minutes twice, I think, both times with Anderson Cooper

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<v Speaker 2>AC and he was asked a questions similarly by Anderson Cooper.

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<v Speaker 2>Are you an adrenaline junkie? Maybe a different maybe second

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<v Speaker 2>cousin to your question, right, but pretty close, And he

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<v Speaker 2>said no, I'm an adrenaline aficionado. So I don't know

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<v Speaker 2>if I could say testing limits. I've not had a

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<v Speaker 2>life full of compliance. But at the same time, I

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<v Speaker 2>don't necessarily volunto. But I just say that maybe I'm

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<v Speaker 2>not too sure I think about it like that, but

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<v Speaker 2>I totally well have you have you bungee jumped? Oh?

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<v Speaker 2>Heck yeah?

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<v Speaker 1>What other extreme things have you done?

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<v Speaker 2>Well? I don't know. Uh, gosh, I don't know. I

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<v Speaker 2>don't know how to define that other than I don't

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<v Speaker 2>see it think them as extreme. They're just things. I

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<v Speaker 2>fought wildland fires on a shot crew when I was young,

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<v Speaker 2>pagd for college. Maybe maybe that's scene by extreme, is

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<v Speaker 2>extreme by others, but for me, it was a great

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<v Speaker 2>way to make a living running a chainsaw on on

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<v Speaker 2>big fires out of southern New Mexico and northern New

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<v Speaker 2>Mexico and Arizona. Oh, I've done quite a bit of uh.

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<v Speaker 2>I was backcountry ranger in Rocky Mountain National Park, did

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<v Speaker 2>quite a bit of hig angle rescue that was more

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<v Speaker 2>industrial climbing because it was rescue than anything else. But

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<v Speaker 2>I think some might see Hiengel rescue as being a

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<v Speaker 2>little bit extreme. I don't know, but I thought it

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<v Speaker 2>was great.

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<v Speaker 1>Before you get there, you had this near death experience

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<v Speaker 1>ten years ago. Prior to that, had you had any

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<v Speaker 1>experiences were you were on the line.

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<v Speaker 2>No, And by the way, I have to say, I

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<v Speaker 2>found out a year later. It wasn't near death. I

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<v Speaker 2>was dead. I was dead for six minutes. That's why

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<v Speaker 2>it was a good day, right, Because my arm got

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<v Speaker 2>torn off. They put it back on. I was dead

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<v Speaker 2>in the helicopter and they brought me back to life.

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<v Speaker 2>So in all, October thirteenth was a great day.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, a little bit slower. You jump out of the

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<v Speaker 1>plane and where are you? What happened?

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<v Speaker 2>Sure? And by the way, you just got to answer

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<v Speaker 2>one of your five questions there, and that was I

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<v Speaker 2>love freefall. When there would jump at fourteen thousand feet AGL,

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<v Speaker 2>which is an acronym for above ground level, and you

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<v Speaker 2>typically we'll come back to that pull at four thousand AGL.

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<v Speaker 2>In between fourteen and four thousand feet is ten thousand

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<v Speaker 2>feet of free falling. And it's just one of the

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<v Speaker 2>most pure, condemned joyful things I've ever done in my

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<v Speaker 2>entire life. It doesn't take a particular a great deal

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<v Speaker 2>of skill or athleticism even but it is fucking fun, man.

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<v Speaker 2>It is so exhilarating, thrilling joy. From the first time

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<v Speaker 2>I jumped in Paris, California, getting aff I just couldn't

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<v Speaker 2>stop smiling. So I just love it. Absolutely love that.

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<v Speaker 2>And I don't know if that's testing limits or adrenaline whatever,

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<v Speaker 2>it just all they can do is tell you I

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<v Speaker 2>love it. But so it was down there, JT and

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<v Speaker 2>I and other friends would go down and jump down

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<v Speaker 2>a load. I quite a bit. We lived in Trucky.

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<v Speaker 2>I was CEO at squad Ally and Alpine Meadows for

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<v Speaker 2>a little bit. Got hooked into JT. Great guy, great

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<v Speaker 2>dear friend of mine and the late great Timmy Dutton

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<v Speaker 2>who died tragically a year later in an air to

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<v Speaker 2>air accident skydiving the same location. Still breaks my heart

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<v Speaker 2>to think about Timmy because he's remarkable kid, remarkable young

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<v Speaker 2>man with an incredible story. He's overcome more than most

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<v Speaker 2>people have U and he had. He was just the

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<v Speaker 2>best ever. Talked all show long about Timmy Dutton. But

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<v Speaker 2>so Timmy, JT and I are jumping. Oh, actually it

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<v Speaker 2>wasn't this weekend we were jumping with were jumping with

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<v Speaker 2>some other friends. We had gone down to Davis to jump,

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<v Speaker 2>but the winds were blusteries, so we got blown out there.

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<v Speaker 2>They weren't flying that day on that Saturday, so we

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<v Speaker 2>drove to Lodi, which is not too far from Davis,

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<v Speaker 2>I guess and load Ie is kind of considered. With

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<v Speaker 2>a smile on my face, I'd say it's a little

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<v Speaker 2>bit of the truck stop of drop zones. They kind

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<v Speaker 2>of are flying and jumping all the time and it's

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<v Speaker 2>a good place, but it's, you know, just there and

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<v Speaker 2>it works, and we ended up getting in a load.

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<v Speaker 2>So what happened is we ended up in classic three

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<v Speaker 2>or four cloaked things in sequence took place because we

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<v Speaker 2>have a fair amount of experience jumping. We jumped out

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<v Speaker 2>of the plane light the last group jumping Number two's

0:11:54.960 --> 0:11:58.240
<v Speaker 2>pilot flew a slightly bad jump line number three. Importantly,

0:11:58.320 --> 0:12:01.400
<v Speaker 2>the winds changed fold about one hundred and twenty degrees

0:12:01.440 --> 0:12:02.959
<v Speaker 2>from the time we took off to the time we

0:12:03.600 --> 0:12:06.719
<v Speaker 2>got to fourteen thousand feet AGL and the green light

0:12:06.840 --> 0:12:10.920
<v Speaker 2>came on to jump. And then the last thing is

0:12:11.520 --> 0:12:14.719
<v Speaker 2>because JT and Timmy and I had jumped quite a

0:12:14.760 --> 0:12:17.160
<v Speaker 2>bit and those guys base jump, we tend to pull low,

0:12:17.280 --> 0:12:20.440
<v Speaker 2>so instead of pulling at four thousand feet AGL, which

0:12:20.480 --> 0:12:22.440
<v Speaker 2>gives you a fair amount of time to remedy problems

0:12:22.559 --> 0:12:24.920
<v Speaker 2>like a bad wing, a bad canopy or something like that,

0:12:25.160 --> 0:12:27.920
<v Speaker 2>or spiral kick out of twisted lines. You have time

0:12:27.960 --> 0:12:31.280
<v Speaker 2>to remedy. But we're pretty competent, and there's that whole

0:12:31.360 --> 0:12:36.520
<v Speaker 2>confidence competent breakover curve. And I violated that curb right there,

0:12:36.640 --> 0:12:40.000
<v Speaker 2>pulled low on a day I shouldn't have it. Turns out,

0:12:40.040 --> 0:12:43.160
<v Speaker 2>the entire plane it was a d day landing. Everybody

0:12:43.280 --> 0:12:46.040
<v Speaker 2>was scattered. But by the time I pulled it was

0:12:46.080 --> 0:12:48.959
<v Speaker 2>that twelve hundred feet AGL, pretty close to the ground

0:12:49.280 --> 0:12:52.000
<v Speaker 2>under canopy, and I didn't Nobody realized that the wines

0:12:52.040 --> 0:12:54.439
<v Speaker 2>had folded at that point, including me. That's why I

0:12:54.480 --> 0:12:57.360
<v Speaker 2>was a DDA landing. Everybody went everywhere. So got my

0:12:57.440 --> 0:12:59.760
<v Speaker 2>canopy up, got a good wing, I'm gonna looking. I'm going, oh,

0:13:00.679 --> 0:13:02.240
<v Speaker 2>I have a headwind right now, and I should have

0:13:02.280 --> 0:13:05.439
<v Speaker 2>a tailwind. And when you don't have propulsion like in airplanes,

0:13:06.240 --> 0:13:10.280
<v Speaker 2>this matters. And so you take off from and you

0:13:10.520 --> 0:13:14.440
<v Speaker 2>seek to land on the drop zone. Now I'm aiming

0:13:14.480 --> 0:13:16.600
<v Speaker 2>at the drop zone under canopy at say a thousand

0:13:16.640 --> 0:13:20.839
<v Speaker 2>feet AGL, and your cent rates pretty decent. And I

0:13:20.960 --> 0:13:22.559
<v Speaker 2>have a set of power lines in front of me,

0:13:23.040 --> 0:13:25.719
<v Speaker 2>in front of me and to the right, and a

0:13:25.800 --> 0:13:28.480
<v Speaker 2>couple of buildings, and I remember thinking I think this

0:13:28.640 --> 0:13:33.400
<v Speaker 2>is a crack up that it's you know, skydiving Onlike skiing,

0:13:33.520 --> 0:13:37.679
<v Speaker 2>for instance, there's not much of a gradient of injuries right.

0:13:37.880 --> 0:13:40.360
<v Speaker 2>In other words, skiing you can hurt yourself a little

0:13:40.360 --> 0:13:44.280
<v Speaker 2>bit or a lot. In skydiving, it's pretty binary. There's

0:13:44.320 --> 0:13:47.200
<v Speaker 2>not much to it, right. All I could think about

0:13:47.400 --> 0:13:51.000
<v Speaker 2>was the headline kind of the skydiver tried to make

0:13:51.040 --> 0:13:54.080
<v Speaker 2>it underneath the power lines, right, end up like one

0:13:54.120 --> 0:13:56.960
<v Speaker 2>of those bugs on a bug zapper. Okay, that one

0:13:57.040 --> 0:13:59.000
<v Speaker 2>through my mind was nope. So I look down to

0:13:59.040 --> 0:14:01.200
<v Speaker 2>my left and now I'm about eight hundred Things move

0:14:01.240 --> 0:14:03.920
<v Speaker 2>pretty quickly in this moment. Ended up hook turning, So

0:14:04.120 --> 0:14:07.199
<v Speaker 2>flying my canopy, pull hard left and hook turned into

0:14:07.280 --> 0:14:09.760
<v Speaker 2>what turned out to be a vineyard. And if you

0:14:09.800 --> 0:14:12.520
<v Speaker 2>didn't know what in vineyards, they have these very high

0:14:13.280 --> 0:14:16.839
<v Speaker 2>tensile strong wires hold up the vines. And I'm lining

0:14:16.920 --> 0:14:20.960
<v Speaker 2>up this landing. I'm pretty decent under canopy and land

0:14:21.040 --> 0:14:23.960
<v Speaker 2>and blinding it up. Still a bit of a blustery day,

0:14:24.000 --> 0:14:26.760
<v Speaker 2>but I'm like, okay, pull this off. Nothing panicky in

0:14:26.800 --> 0:14:29.280
<v Speaker 2>my mind at this point. But right as I'm flaring,

0:14:29.920 --> 0:14:32.240
<v Speaker 2>which is you've flown enough to know when you land

0:14:32.360 --> 0:14:34.560
<v Speaker 2>an airplane, to see the pilots put down the flaps.

0:14:35.280 --> 0:14:38.120
<v Speaker 2>So when you flare a canopy, it's the same effective

0:14:38.200 --> 0:14:41.960
<v Speaker 2>things as a plane pulling the flaps down. Right, basically

0:14:42.680 --> 0:14:45.920
<v Speaker 2>bring yourself to a clothes of land on your feet. Well,

0:14:46.120 --> 0:14:49.120
<v Speaker 2>right as I'm flaring this, I remember catching out of

0:14:49.160 --> 0:14:53.040
<v Speaker 2>the front left's risers on my canopy. My parachute pushed

0:14:53.120 --> 0:14:55.400
<v Speaker 2>about foot to the right, and I'm landing in between

0:14:55.440 --> 0:14:59.560
<v Speaker 2>these rows of vines and by god, if that little

0:14:59.640 --> 0:15:02.280
<v Speaker 2>foot it feels like foot. Maybe it was more pushed

0:15:02.320 --> 0:15:05.560
<v Speaker 2>me enough right right at the right time where one

0:15:05.560 --> 0:15:08.000
<v Speaker 2>of those high tension wires caught my arm pulled it

0:15:08.080 --> 0:15:11.880
<v Speaker 2>off and uh and uh at the at the elbow

0:15:12.640 --> 0:15:16.840
<v Speaker 2>and uh yeah, that's that's okay. Just dont cover that, okay.

0:15:17.240 --> 0:15:20.840
<v Speaker 2>Was it completely detached. It was detached at the elbow,

0:15:21.640 --> 0:15:24.960
<v Speaker 2>and there was this thin strip of tissue turns out

0:15:25.080 --> 0:15:28.080
<v Speaker 2>very valuable thin strip of tissue that was there. But yeah,

0:15:28.080 --> 0:15:30.520
<v Speaker 2>I know, my my forearm and right hand were kind

0:15:30.520 --> 0:15:33.080
<v Speaker 2>of on the ground ground. I was kneeling because the

0:15:33.280 --> 0:15:35.120
<v Speaker 2>shrouds of my canopy were held up behind me on

0:15:35.160 --> 0:15:38.960
<v Speaker 2>the vines. And uh yeah, so yeah, I was detached

0:15:39.040 --> 0:15:42.040
<v Speaker 2>minus a shred of tissue. And I have to mention

0:15:42.160 --> 0:15:43.920
<v Speaker 2>this because I again I think it's I look back

0:15:44.040 --> 0:15:46.960
<v Speaker 2>with it worked out really well that day, it worked

0:15:47.000 --> 0:15:50.080
<v Speaker 2>out great, and but I reached down. I'll talk about

0:15:50.120 --> 0:15:51.520
<v Speaker 2>all that I did. I've done a bunch of work

0:15:51.560 --> 0:15:54.080
<v Speaker 2>in trauma, right, I've been around trauma. And there's a

0:15:54.160 --> 0:15:56.280
<v Speaker 2>question you asked me about eight minutes ago that I

0:15:56.360 --> 0:15:59.560
<v Speaker 2>not answered. But I have never had anything like this

0:16:00.040 --> 0:16:02.120
<v Speaker 2>happened to me. But I treated a whole lot of

0:16:02.160 --> 0:16:08.840
<v Speaker 2>people in bad places and trauma, climbing accidents, car accidents,

0:16:09.200 --> 0:16:11.000
<v Speaker 2>you name it. I've done a whole bunch of stuff

0:16:11.000 --> 0:16:13.040
<v Speaker 2>in trauma. I've been in the blood. I have a

0:16:13.160 --> 0:16:18.080
<v Speaker 2>stick if you will, and so, but never in this

0:16:18.240 --> 0:16:20.200
<v Speaker 2>case with myself, if I had something like this, so,

0:16:21.280 --> 0:16:23.160
<v Speaker 2>I hadn't clicked into that gear yet. But I reached

0:16:23.200 --> 0:16:25.480
<v Speaker 2>down right when it happened, I looked down. And do

0:16:25.520 --> 0:16:27.920
<v Speaker 2>you ever see that Money Python movie, Monty Python in

0:16:27.960 --> 0:16:30.800
<v Speaker 2>the Holy Grail? Of course, remember when the night cuts

0:16:30.800 --> 0:16:33.480
<v Speaker 2>off his arm as a blood spurt OUTA that was me.

0:16:34.120 --> 0:16:36.200
<v Speaker 2>It was spurting out, man, it was it was going

0:16:36.240 --> 0:16:38.960
<v Speaker 2>after it. And I hope that it doesn't gross out

0:16:39.000 --> 0:16:39.720
<v Speaker 2>some of your listeners.

0:16:39.800 --> 0:16:42.880
<v Speaker 1>Maybe maybe it is audio. You got to put the

0:16:42.960 --> 0:16:44.080
<v Speaker 1>metal images.

0:16:43.840 --> 0:16:46.920
<v Speaker 2>So so, first thing I did was reach down and

0:16:47.000 --> 0:16:50.680
<v Speaker 2>grab my right forearm with my left hand and tried

0:16:50.720 --> 0:16:53.720
<v Speaker 2>to reattach it. Tried to put it back, tried to

0:16:53.720 --> 0:16:56.160
<v Speaker 2>put it back into the elbow socket, and that didn't work.

0:16:56.680 --> 0:16:59.400
<v Speaker 2>It didn't work, it didn't stay. I was bummed about that.

0:16:59.560 --> 0:17:02.920
<v Speaker 2>But then then the next you know, eight ten minutes

0:17:02.960 --> 0:17:04.240
<v Speaker 2>were interesting, to say the least.

0:17:11.680 --> 0:17:16.440
<v Speaker 1>Okay, Unfortunately, I've been injured a number of times. Usually

0:17:17.359 --> 0:17:20.080
<v Speaker 1>whatever the science is, you don't feel the pain for

0:17:20.200 --> 0:17:24.040
<v Speaker 1>a while. When did you ultimately feel the pain? If ever?

0:17:24.480 --> 0:17:26.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I want to hear more about your injuries. I'm

0:17:26.359 --> 0:17:28.399
<v Speaker 2>sorry for that. Hopefully you had somebody good on you.

0:17:28.840 --> 0:17:31.320
<v Speaker 1>Well yeah, well listen, I'm here now, but keep going.

0:17:31.240 --> 0:17:31.800
<v Speaker 2>Good, good guy?

0:17:32.040 --> 0:17:34.159
<v Speaker 1>How long until you uh so?

0:17:35.320 --> 0:17:38.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? It was, You're right, And I couldn't say that

0:17:38.440 --> 0:17:43.320
<v Speaker 2>I felt pain, but I know maybe a few I

0:17:43.359 --> 0:17:46.040
<v Speaker 2>would say moments, and I lose track of time because

0:17:46.040 --> 0:17:50.040
<v Speaker 2>I've been tracking it. I felt some pain because when

0:17:50.080 --> 0:17:52.040
<v Speaker 2>you have that kind of I had a stub, basically

0:17:52.520 --> 0:17:55.280
<v Speaker 2>a humorous bone sticking out and bleeding out pretty well

0:17:55.800 --> 0:17:58.159
<v Speaker 2>and I'll go back and provide you some other interesting

0:17:58.440 --> 0:18:01.080
<v Speaker 2>stories about ed vettersong just Breathe that came in my

0:18:01.160 --> 0:18:04.480
<v Speaker 2>background experience and more. It is quite critical how these things,

0:18:05.000 --> 0:18:08.720
<v Speaker 2>in a crazy way converged into one moment my mind.

0:18:09.520 --> 0:18:11.240
<v Speaker 2>But I did feel pain when I took my fist

0:18:11.320 --> 0:18:16.320
<v Speaker 2>because I couldn't make a tourniquet. I just had a

0:18:16.480 --> 0:18:19.440
<v Speaker 2>great tourniquet on my left hand, an altimeter had a

0:18:19.520 --> 0:18:21.640
<v Speaker 2>Velkoz trap, but I couldn't get it off to put

0:18:21.640 --> 0:18:26.320
<v Speaker 2>it back on the stub. So, as most anybody who's listening,

0:18:26.359 --> 0:18:29.240
<v Speaker 2>as any trauma experiencers with you have that kind of bleeding,

0:18:29.280 --> 0:18:33.520
<v Speaker 2>there's two things, tournique or direct pressure. In this case,

0:18:33.560 --> 0:18:36.879
<v Speaker 2>I took my fist and put it underneath my stub

0:18:37.600 --> 0:18:39.800
<v Speaker 2>and slowed down the bleeding. That was painful, I have

0:18:39.920 --> 0:18:41.960
<v Speaker 2>to say. In the past, I've said that that was

0:18:42.720 --> 0:18:44.680
<v Speaker 2>a fair amount of discomfort, but I think it'd be

0:18:44.720 --> 0:18:47.000
<v Speaker 2>fair to call it pain. At that point, I felt

0:18:47.119 --> 0:18:47.400
<v Speaker 2>the pain.

0:18:47.520 --> 0:18:50.960
<v Speaker 1>Okay, so you're in this situation, you're aware enough to

0:18:51.280 --> 0:18:55.960
<v Speaker 1>try to stanch the bleeding. What's going through your mind?

0:18:56.400 --> 0:18:59.440
<v Speaker 1>How does the just Weaze song come along? And how

0:18:59.480 --> 0:19:01.119
<v Speaker 1>long till somebody gets to you.

0:19:01.480 --> 0:19:06.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. So after I tried to put my arm back

0:19:06.160 --> 0:19:08.680
<v Speaker 2>in and it didn't work, I was able to do

0:19:08.920 --> 0:19:12.399
<v Speaker 2>I was now kind of in my EMT AMT mode

0:19:13.080 --> 0:19:16.680
<v Speaker 2>and did an assessment of quick assessment of situation. The

0:19:16.760 --> 0:19:19.160
<v Speaker 2>first thing to think about is mechanisms. Was there anything

0:19:19.200 --> 0:19:22.560
<v Speaker 2>else wrong with my body? No neck head, anything like that.

0:19:22.760 --> 0:19:27.440
<v Speaker 2>No good. So then what's glaringly obvious is that I'm bleeding.

0:19:27.720 --> 0:19:29.920
<v Speaker 2>And now I do some quick calculations more in my

0:19:30.040 --> 0:19:33.320
<v Speaker 2>clinical or trauma mode of how fast I'll bleed out

0:19:33.359 --> 0:19:35.600
<v Speaker 2>with that, Now there are arteries that we can sever

0:19:35.760 --> 0:19:38.119
<v Speaker 2>that will bleed out a lot faster. This one's pretty

0:19:38.400 --> 0:19:41.240
<v Speaker 2>in the top five, right, the one that runs down

0:19:41.240 --> 0:19:41.680
<v Speaker 2>your arm.

0:19:42.080 --> 0:19:42.159
<v Speaker 1>And.

0:19:44.440 --> 0:19:46.919
<v Speaker 2>Particularly because I had a slightly accelerated heart rate at

0:19:46.960 --> 0:19:50.359
<v Speaker 2>this point, so leaning out and I remember thinking, I

0:19:50.400 --> 0:19:53.440
<v Speaker 2>think it might have about eight minutes, And that was

0:19:53.480 --> 0:19:57.280
<v Speaker 2>before I staunched the blood. Maybe eight minutes the blood

0:19:57.280 --> 0:20:00.679
<v Speaker 2>flow coming out and was able to to slow that down.

0:20:00.720 --> 0:20:03.320
<v Speaker 2>I said, okay, maybe I bought myself another couple three.

0:20:03.400 --> 0:20:06.639
<v Speaker 2>But point being in that first component, that first element

0:20:06.720 --> 0:20:09.280
<v Speaker 2>of the situation, I was in that full trauma mode,

0:20:11.040 --> 0:20:14.720
<v Speaker 2>and that was kind of the first component, it was okay,

0:20:14.880 --> 0:20:17.960
<v Speaker 2>interesting to say the least, there was a little bit

0:20:18.000 --> 0:20:19.920
<v Speaker 2>more to it. That's probably a good way to tie

0:20:19.920 --> 0:20:23.120
<v Speaker 2>off on that. What's then interesting is I flashed back

0:20:23.160 --> 0:20:27.840
<v Speaker 2>to all of my experience both Heinengel Rescue Rocky mountin

0:20:27.880 --> 0:20:31.760
<v Speaker 2>National Park and a volunteer fire and ambulance crew in

0:20:32.000 --> 0:20:38.200
<v Speaker 2>Northwest Colorado. Everything gunshot wounds too, meaning from hunting and

0:20:38.560 --> 0:20:42.879
<v Speaker 2>you name it. And almost every paramedic, every EMT has

0:20:42.960 --> 0:20:44.560
<v Speaker 2>their stick and they come up on you and you

0:20:44.640 --> 0:20:47.720
<v Speaker 2>probably if you've had this. Hey, Bob, my name is Andy,

0:20:48.119 --> 0:20:51.720
<v Speaker 2>I'm medically trained. I'm here to help you. I want

0:20:51.760 --> 0:20:54.639
<v Speaker 2>you to write and exactly.

0:20:54.640 --> 0:20:56.440
<v Speaker 1>They're very calm, very direct.

0:20:56.640 --> 0:21:01.280
<v Speaker 2>And usually that's to gain information quickly, including meds and

0:21:01.320 --> 0:21:05.160
<v Speaker 2>all that stuff. If you're AO time, alert, awake and oriented,

0:21:06.480 --> 0:21:10.000
<v Speaker 2>and in this case you issue somethings like Bob, I

0:21:10.080 --> 0:21:12.240
<v Speaker 2>wants you to just pay attention to me. All I

0:21:12.320 --> 0:21:14.240
<v Speaker 2>want you to do is breathe. Just breathe, man, that's

0:21:14.240 --> 0:21:17.480
<v Speaker 2>all you're going to do. Two reasons for that. Number One,

0:21:17.520 --> 0:21:19.440
<v Speaker 2>it gives in this case a person in a bad

0:21:19.520 --> 0:21:24.680
<v Speaker 2>place something to think about, which is good regardless of

0:21:24.680 --> 0:21:27.160
<v Speaker 2>where they are in terms of enjoying or enduring pain.

0:21:28.600 --> 0:21:31.200
<v Speaker 2>But number two, critically, the goal there is to keep

0:21:31.240 --> 0:21:33.960
<v Speaker 2>shock away because shock in and of itself is a

0:21:33.960 --> 0:21:38.440
<v Speaker 2>psycho psycho, somatic, psycho, what's the word I'm looking for.

0:21:38.520 --> 0:21:41.600
<v Speaker 2>It's a bodily reaction that is both mental, emotional as

0:21:41.640 --> 0:21:45.280
<v Speaker 2>well as physical to protect the body. And shock will

0:21:45.320 --> 0:21:48.760
<v Speaker 2>kill you. Shock kills so many times because it does

0:21:48.840 --> 0:21:51.720
<v Speaker 2>things to your heart rate, your blood and more. So

0:21:52.119 --> 0:21:54.280
<v Speaker 2>I went into this motive I have to keep shock away,

0:21:55.160 --> 0:21:57.040
<v Speaker 2>and that was part of the tail end of the

0:21:57.119 --> 0:22:00.920
<v Speaker 2>clinical side. And my whole thing is it's not uncommon.

0:22:00.960 --> 0:22:03.840
<v Speaker 2>It's probably seven out of ten empts and parameds have

0:22:04.040 --> 0:22:06.680
<v Speaker 2>just breathed. Bob, I just want you to breathe, and

0:22:06.920 --> 0:22:11.560
<v Speaker 2>just breathe came into my brain. I'm not kidney, but

0:22:11.640 --> 0:22:13.760
<v Speaker 2>I was like a meteor out of the heavens into

0:22:13.800 --> 0:22:17.119
<v Speaker 2>my brain. The tune came into my head that I

0:22:17.359 --> 0:22:19.680
<v Speaker 2>just was learning on the guitar a few months ago.

0:22:20.400 --> 0:22:22.000
<v Speaker 2>I was not aware of it till the Buck Brandaman

0:22:22.119 --> 0:22:26.920
<v Speaker 2>song or movie my good friend Buck, and it really

0:22:26.960 --> 0:22:29.639
<v Speaker 2>helped me a ton, because at that point there was

0:22:29.680 --> 0:22:32.240
<v Speaker 2>not much more I could do. I had stuffed my

0:22:32.320 --> 0:22:35.720
<v Speaker 2>fist underneath the humorous slowed down the bleeding as much

0:22:35.720 --> 0:22:38.000
<v Speaker 2>as I could, and then I was in waiting game

0:22:38.119 --> 0:22:40.280
<v Speaker 2>because I couldn't do anything else because my trouds were

0:22:40.320 --> 0:22:43.960
<v Speaker 2>caught up in the vines behind me and Marma's four.

0:22:43.960 --> 0:22:46.280
<v Speaker 2>I was sitting there and that song came to me.

0:22:46.880 --> 0:22:50.760
<v Speaker 2>And what's interesting is I was applying to myself these

0:22:50.840 --> 0:22:53.000
<v Speaker 2>words that I applied to one hundred and fifty other

0:22:53.040 --> 0:22:57.280
<v Speaker 2>people in rough spots, really tough spots, some of them.

0:22:58.000 --> 0:23:01.800
<v Speaker 2>I'll finish off on that tale with the helicopter. Make

0:23:01.840 --> 0:23:05.200
<v Speaker 2>it to the helicopter is a really important element. But

0:23:05.320 --> 0:23:08.200
<v Speaker 2>that tune came to me and which I can tell

0:23:08.200 --> 0:23:11.320
<v Speaker 2>you it's to me. It's remarkable and fascinating. I've never

0:23:11.400 --> 0:23:14.680
<v Speaker 2>had anything like this ever happened to me my entire life.

0:23:15.640 --> 0:23:19.600
<v Speaker 2>It was this convergence, the bland in my mind and

0:23:19.680 --> 0:23:22.560
<v Speaker 2>the first if you know the song, yes, I understand

0:23:22.640 --> 0:23:28.160
<v Speaker 2>every life must end, maybe not exactly, you know, kind

0:23:28.160 --> 0:23:31.840
<v Speaker 2>of mister Rogers, Disney Sesame Street happy words when you're

0:23:31.840 --> 0:23:34.680
<v Speaker 2>sitting there dying, And at this point, I think I'm think,

0:23:34.720 --> 0:23:36.800
<v Speaker 2>I'm pretty sure I had like a couple three minutes left,

0:23:38.240 --> 0:23:41.159
<v Speaker 2>but the words gave me something to think about, or

0:23:41.240 --> 0:23:43.880
<v Speaker 2>the words myself. But then the lyrics gave me something

0:23:44.960 --> 0:23:49.159
<v Speaker 2>to consider as I sit alone, I know someday we

0:23:49.320 --> 0:23:56.080
<v Speaker 2>must go and incredibly powerful stuff. Bob Man, I gotta

0:23:56.119 --> 0:24:01.240
<v Speaker 2>tell you I had never considered. I always knew about

0:24:01.240 --> 0:24:06.639
<v Speaker 2>the risk of Scott having done stuff, but never been

0:24:06.680 --> 0:24:09.320
<v Speaker 2>in this place. And I guess the punchline. The whole

0:24:09.359 --> 0:24:12.600
<v Speaker 2>thing is, I was certain I was going to die

0:24:13.200 --> 0:24:15.640
<v Speaker 2>of that. It was a clinical thing. It wasn't any

0:24:15.760 --> 0:24:18.840
<v Speaker 2>kind of It was just a clinical, straight up deal.

0:24:19.400 --> 0:24:20.879
<v Speaker 2>I'm not going to make it. There's nobody owhere near

0:24:20.920 --> 0:24:24.320
<v Speaker 2>because it's a d Day landing. Everybody scattered and nobody

0:24:24.520 --> 0:24:28.880
<v Speaker 2>knows I'm here in this vineyard. And those lyrics came

0:24:28.880 --> 0:24:31.640
<v Speaker 2>to me and Bob, they helped me come to peace

0:24:31.720 --> 0:24:34.640
<v Speaker 2>with something I had never even considered, and that was dying.

0:24:36.200 --> 0:24:40.639
<v Speaker 2>It helped me come to peace with death, and that

0:24:41.359 --> 0:24:45.600
<v Speaker 2>made everything perfect. And I was at peace in those

0:24:45.680 --> 0:24:49.720
<v Speaker 2>three four moments, three or four minutes, five minutes, and

0:24:50.359 --> 0:24:54.480
<v Speaker 2>that meant everything. Which I slowed down my breathing, deep breathing,

0:24:55.040 --> 0:25:00.640
<v Speaker 2>and I kept cycling through those lyrics, and I don't

0:25:01.240 --> 0:25:03.040
<v Speaker 2>I've listened to a couple of your podcasts, and I

0:25:03.320 --> 0:25:05.600
<v Speaker 2>tried to think most folks try to be polite and

0:25:05.640 --> 0:25:08.800
<v Speaker 2>try not to cuss a lot. But fucking amazing what

0:25:08.960 --> 0:25:12.600
<v Speaker 2>that song did that afternoon, because the song kept me alive,

0:25:13.560 --> 0:25:16.800
<v Speaker 2>and it did zeroed out in my mind because it

0:25:16.880 --> 0:25:21.000
<v Speaker 2>played a role on the psychology of trauma, psycho all

0:25:21.040 --> 0:25:23.359
<v Speaker 2>the psychological aspects of trauma, what it can do to people.

0:25:23.720 --> 0:25:25.920
<v Speaker 2>And it just stemmed from me saying just breathe because

0:25:25.920 --> 0:25:28.800
<v Speaker 2>that was my stick for being amt and didn't know

0:25:28.960 --> 0:25:32.480
<v Speaker 2>the song until the Buck movie, and gosh, I don't

0:25:32.560 --> 0:25:34.879
<v Speaker 2>twelve fifteen minutes later, a gaal named Amanda came to

0:25:35.000 --> 0:25:39.200
<v Speaker 2>me and she had not had any experience with trauma,

0:25:39.280 --> 0:25:42.399
<v Speaker 2>so I felt badly because she hadn't had any experience

0:25:42.480 --> 0:25:45.040
<v Speaker 2>with trauma, but I had asked her to kind of

0:25:45.119 --> 0:25:48.440
<v Speaker 2>coach her through for forming a tourniquet out of my

0:25:49.320 --> 0:25:51.800
<v Speaker 2>altimeter and that really helped a lot, because then I

0:25:51.920 --> 0:25:53.680
<v Speaker 2>was able to move my left fist out of my

0:25:54.040 --> 0:25:58.240
<v Speaker 2>armpit and then I don't know however, many minutes later,

0:25:59.359 --> 0:26:03.000
<v Speaker 2>ambulance came up. They somebody had already dispatched to Flight

0:26:03.040 --> 0:26:09.280
<v Speaker 2>for Life out of UC Davis and so I'll just

0:26:09.400 --> 0:26:11.520
<v Speaker 2>complete the story and you can unpack it as you

0:26:11.560 --> 0:26:17.720
<v Speaker 2>see fit manif shapes. This creates this tournique end up

0:26:17.760 --> 0:26:19.679
<v Speaker 2>getting backboarded. I also think it was a little bit

0:26:19.720 --> 0:26:21.920
<v Speaker 2>interesting because it was a volunteer crew from Lodike, California.

0:26:21.920 --> 0:26:24.200
<v Speaker 2>He was working on me, and I was somewhat coaching

0:26:24.280 --> 0:26:26.720
<v Speaker 2>them through this, which was kind of freaking some of

0:26:26.760 --> 0:26:28.840
<v Speaker 2>those guys out because they went to put oxygen on

0:26:28.920 --> 0:26:30.520
<v Speaker 2>me because I said, guys, I need some MO two

0:26:31.080 --> 0:26:33.600
<v Speaker 2>and they put a nasel caniola on me, and I said, guys,

0:26:33.840 --> 0:26:35.920
<v Speaker 2>I think I'm down quite a few quarts. Do you

0:26:35.960 --> 0:26:37.600
<v Speaker 2>think you could put a mask on me and crank

0:26:37.640 --> 0:26:40.199
<v Speaker 2>it to seven? And I remember the guy looking at

0:26:40.280 --> 0:26:44.320
<v Speaker 2>me like the hell, what the hell? And they went

0:26:44.320 --> 0:26:45.880
<v Speaker 2>to the sea collar on me. I said, look, there's

0:26:45.880 --> 0:26:47.600
<v Speaker 2>no mechanism on the neck, but it's cool put a

0:26:47.640 --> 0:26:49.760
<v Speaker 2>sea collar. And put a sea collar on me. I said, no, dude,

0:26:49.920 --> 0:26:52.760
<v Speaker 2>you're putting a size two on me. I'm not twelve.

0:26:53.480 --> 0:26:55.320
<v Speaker 2>And so I'm coaching the through again. I thought it

0:26:55.440 --> 0:27:01.960
<v Speaker 2>was funny, but maybe in retrospect itness. Then I hear

0:27:02.119 --> 0:27:04.800
<v Speaker 2>the turbines of the helicopter backboard me. Get me set

0:27:05.240 --> 0:27:07.640
<v Speaker 2>and it turns out they had to a rubber tire

0:27:07.720 --> 0:27:11.800
<v Speaker 2>vehicle in the ambulance to the landing zone for the helicopter.

0:27:12.520 --> 0:27:15.840
<v Speaker 2>And flash back to my days in Rock Ammant National Park.

0:27:15.880 --> 0:27:19.920
<v Speaker 2>There's lots of times we put people on overnight rescues

0:27:19.960 --> 0:27:24.240
<v Speaker 2>on Long Peak, Long's Peak and other climbs that honestly,

0:27:24.320 --> 0:27:27.280
<v Speaker 2>we would stabilize them, transport them, get them to a

0:27:27.359 --> 0:27:30.520
<v Speaker 2>good spot, and then package them up, get them on

0:27:30.560 --> 0:27:33.119
<v Speaker 2>the helicopter and then fly them down to Denver. And

0:27:33.200 --> 0:27:35.600
<v Speaker 2>there was three out of five times there are people

0:27:35.640 --> 0:27:37.240
<v Speaker 2>that there's like, no way they're going to make it.

0:27:37.480 --> 0:27:41.120
<v Speaker 2>I'm not kidding you, no way that tragically, that guy's

0:27:41.119 --> 0:27:45.440
<v Speaker 2>a goner. Too much trauma, blood loss, name it internal injuries.

0:27:46.160 --> 0:27:49.800
<v Speaker 2>And it's just amazing, amazing high five and the tip

0:27:49.840 --> 0:27:53.000
<v Speaker 2>of the hat. Any pyramids that are flying, the flight

0:27:53.119 --> 0:27:56.000
<v Speaker 2>nurses that are in these helicopters do amazing things. And

0:27:56.160 --> 0:27:58.639
<v Speaker 2>those three at all, those folks, most of them that

0:27:58.760 --> 0:28:01.399
<v Speaker 2>I know about, they live because of the flight nurses.

0:28:02.800 --> 0:28:05.199
<v Speaker 2>And so that came to me as things were. They

0:28:05.280 --> 0:28:07.000
<v Speaker 2>got the right sea color on me, got some O

0:28:07.160 --> 0:28:10.600
<v Speaker 2>two and I'm making my way and I kept singing

0:28:10.680 --> 0:28:13.119
<v Speaker 2>the tune. By this point, JT was on me and

0:28:13.160 --> 0:28:17.960
<v Speaker 2>he was giving me encouragement and he said, you kept

0:28:18.000 --> 0:28:20.119
<v Speaker 2>singing the song. We couldn't quite make it out to me.

0:28:20.240 --> 0:28:22.440
<v Speaker 2>I was singing it out loud. It was at vetter

0:28:22.560 --> 0:28:26.320
<v Speaker 2>song just breathe the entire thing, and couldn't meant so

0:28:26.400 --> 0:28:27.720
<v Speaker 2>much to me. At that point I realized how the

0:28:27.800 --> 0:28:30.520
<v Speaker 2>value of that song. But inside I was thinking about it.

0:28:30.520 --> 0:28:31.879
<v Speaker 2>If I can make it to the helicopter, I have

0:28:31.920 --> 0:28:35.399
<v Speaker 2>a shot, because I had done that so many times

0:28:36.119 --> 0:28:39.040
<v Speaker 2>with others. I might have a shot. Because at that

0:28:39.120 --> 0:28:42.600
<v Speaker 2>point I was starting to get the shroud, you know whatever.

0:28:43.040 --> 0:28:45.040
<v Speaker 2>The I was starting to go. I was starting to

0:28:45.080 --> 0:28:48.600
<v Speaker 2>go leave for good, one way trip. I'm bind strassa.

0:28:50.120 --> 0:28:51.720
<v Speaker 2>But I figured if I could make it to the helicopter,

0:28:52.160 --> 0:28:55.600
<v Speaker 2>there's a shot. And fucking amen made it to the helicopter.

0:28:56.840 --> 0:29:00.040
<v Speaker 2>They slammed the doors. I'll never forget my friend, and

0:29:00.440 --> 0:29:03.400
<v Speaker 2>asking the flight nurse who had his advisor down, I

0:29:03.440 --> 0:29:05.200
<v Speaker 2>think he'll make it, and the guy goes like this,

0:29:05.480 --> 0:29:07.880
<v Speaker 2>he shook his head no, and I looked up and

0:29:07.920 --> 0:29:12.240
<v Speaker 2>I said, I'm right here. I'm sitting right here, and

0:29:13.320 --> 0:29:16.000
<v Speaker 2>they slammed the door. They crank up the turbines, blinding

0:29:16.040 --> 0:29:19.440
<v Speaker 2>lights from the sun, and I was like, I looked

0:29:19.520 --> 0:29:21.960
<v Speaker 2>up to the guy and I said, I put fucking

0:29:22.120 --> 0:29:25.080
<v Speaker 2>everything I could into getting here, and it's all on

0:29:25.200 --> 0:29:28.480
<v Speaker 2>you now. I got nothing left to give on this fight.

0:29:28.680 --> 0:29:31.719
<v Speaker 2>It was a fifteen to twenty minute fight to get

0:29:31.760 --> 0:29:34.800
<v Speaker 2>to that moment. Apparently I died about a minute and

0:29:34.880 --> 0:29:41.080
<v Speaker 2>something later, and this guy brought me back. Amazing, freaking amazing.

0:29:41.960 --> 0:29:45.320
<v Speaker 2>I just love it. So October thirteenth this year and

0:29:45.440 --> 0:29:48.080
<v Speaker 2>a couple of weeks, I'll be going out to Paris,

0:29:48.320 --> 0:29:51.560
<v Speaker 2>California and jumping to celebrate my ten year anniversary with

0:29:51.600 --> 0:29:54.120
<v Speaker 2>a couple of dear friends, including JT. Holmes. Another good

0:29:54.120 --> 0:29:57.440
<v Speaker 2>friend who's a Navy seal who stepped off about two

0:29:57.480 --> 0:29:59.600
<v Speaker 2>years ago, Zach Armstrong. And We're going to go celebrate

0:29:59.680 --> 0:30:02.080
<v Speaker 2>my a love day because I was dead and I'm

0:30:02.120 --> 0:30:04.840
<v Speaker 2>not and I'm alive and I have an arm.

0:30:05.240 --> 0:30:07.520
<v Speaker 1>Okay, a couple of things. Have you been jumping in

0:30:07.640 --> 0:30:12.120
<v Speaker 1>between this time? I haven't today. How good is your arm?

0:30:14.800 --> 0:30:19.600
<v Speaker 2>It's exceptional because it's there. Took thirty two surgeries to reattach,

0:30:19.640 --> 0:30:24.440
<v Speaker 2>it rebuilt it. I left my bicep out there, I

0:30:24.440 --> 0:30:29.080
<v Speaker 2>don't have a bicep, my triceps got trashed. My hand

0:30:29.200 --> 0:30:31.560
<v Speaker 2>kind of Works's back to that little strip that was

0:30:31.600 --> 0:30:34.440
<v Speaker 2>still there. How good is it? I don't know how

0:30:34.480 --> 0:30:37.960
<v Speaker 2>to say other than it's there and it functions plenty,

0:30:37.960 --> 0:30:39.400
<v Speaker 2>good enough for me to do most everything.

0:30:40.520 --> 0:30:41.960
<v Speaker 1>Can you type yes?

0:30:42.640 --> 0:30:45.320
<v Speaker 2>And I know this is a podcast, but yeah, by

0:30:45.600 --> 0:30:46.760
<v Speaker 2>the full motion here?

0:30:47.800 --> 0:30:51.840
<v Speaker 1>Okay, It's like a doctor will say, most injuries are

0:30:52.040 --> 0:30:57.320
<v Speaker 1>caused by over use and a lot of bad situations

0:30:57.360 --> 0:31:00.680
<v Speaker 1>a result of bad judgment. Oh yeah, are you playing

0:31:00.840 --> 0:31:04.000
<v Speaker 1>this story? Was bad judgment involved?

0:31:04.360 --> 0:31:12.400
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely? And the follow up question is how right I

0:31:12.520 --> 0:31:17.840
<v Speaker 2>mentioned earlier about confidence and competence, And when the condence

0:31:18.000 --> 0:31:23.800
<v Speaker 2>competence curve is largely in line right with any activity,

0:31:23.960 --> 0:31:27.200
<v Speaker 2>including jumping, you tend to be in a decent spot

0:31:27.280 --> 0:31:30.800
<v Speaker 2>because your confidence comes from training, experience, your confidence comes

0:31:30.840 --> 0:31:34.800
<v Speaker 2>from execution. Without going too much deeper into that, but

0:31:34.880 --> 0:31:38.040
<v Speaker 2>in this case, my confidence was probably outstripping and then

0:31:38.080 --> 0:31:43.360
<v Speaker 2>creating a deficit of judgment, and probably the major deficit

0:31:43.480 --> 0:31:46.440
<v Speaker 2>in judgment there. The problem was thinking I was too

0:31:46.520 --> 0:31:48.560
<v Speaker 2>cool for school and pulling love. Had I pulled it

0:31:48.640 --> 0:31:51.720
<v Speaker 2>four thousand, three thousand instead of one thousand because I

0:31:51.880 --> 0:31:54.880
<v Speaker 2>was jumping with all these other guys, probably would have

0:31:54.960 --> 0:31:57.360
<v Speaker 2>been able to rectify and remedy the situation in a

0:31:57.440 --> 0:31:59.880
<v Speaker 2>different situation. In other words, if I had been instead

0:31:59.880 --> 0:32:01.920
<v Speaker 2>of one thousand feet with a tailwind, I might have

0:32:01.920 --> 0:32:04.200
<v Speaker 2>been at four thousand feet with a tailwind or thirty

0:32:04.200 --> 0:32:06.200
<v Speaker 2>five hundred feet with a tailwind and been able to

0:32:06.560 --> 0:32:09.600
<v Speaker 2>make it over the power lines and not be a headline,

0:32:09.760 --> 0:32:13.560
<v Speaker 2>or choose some other landing area other than vineyards. But

0:32:13.680 --> 0:32:17.200
<v Speaker 2>I was presented with what I was presented with, and

0:32:17.800 --> 0:32:20.160
<v Speaker 2>in that case, it was not good judgment on my part.

0:32:20.520 --> 0:32:23.800
<v Speaker 1>Okay, Usually when something this traumatic happens, you get cancer,

0:32:23.840 --> 0:32:28.120
<v Speaker 1>you have a near death experience for a period of time,

0:32:28.800 --> 0:32:32.200
<v Speaker 1>you're so thrilled to be alive that it changes your perspective.

0:32:32.560 --> 0:32:37.080
<v Speaker 1>But that tends to wear off. So it's ten years

0:32:37.160 --> 0:32:40.760
<v Speaker 1>later and you have the anniversary. But how long did

0:32:40.800 --> 0:32:44.040
<v Speaker 1>this affect your outlook? Into what degree does it affect

0:32:44.080 --> 0:32:44.880
<v Speaker 1>your outlook today?

0:32:46.560 --> 0:32:52.280
<v Speaker 2>Not surprisingly a very informed question. Spent it, Oh gosh,

0:32:52.280 --> 0:32:54.520
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, five months in the hospital something like that,

0:32:54.640 --> 0:32:57.240
<v Speaker 2>in and out of I CUS and whole bunch of

0:32:57.240 --> 0:33:01.240
<v Speaker 2>surgeries ended up having to replicate the first round of

0:33:01.280 --> 0:33:04.080
<v Speaker 2>surgeries that I had because they didn't take they took

0:33:04.560 --> 0:33:08.360
<v Speaker 2>veins out of my legs, inverted them, became my humorous

0:33:09.240 --> 0:33:12.000
<v Speaker 2>skin for my legs. My laps are taken out, rebuilt

0:33:12.840 --> 0:33:15.600
<v Speaker 2>the arm, all that kinds of stuff. And in that case,

0:33:15.640 --> 0:33:17.960
<v Speaker 2>it was just about trying to I mean, hell, I

0:33:18.000 --> 0:33:20.760
<v Speaker 2>don't know make it through that. So phase one was

0:33:21.080 --> 0:33:24.800
<v Speaker 2>glad to be here. What's going on now? And what's

0:33:24.880 --> 0:33:26.640
<v Speaker 2>the next surgery? What are we trying to get done

0:33:27.400 --> 0:33:31.560
<v Speaker 2>going I became quite good at surgery, as I have

0:33:31.640 --> 0:33:33.840
<v Speaker 2>a pretty good stick when it comes to the antiseesiologist.

0:33:33.920 --> 0:33:36.040
<v Speaker 2>Here's what to do, here's a size tube to intubate me.

0:33:37.320 --> 0:33:39.720
<v Speaker 2>Surgeries longer in eight hours, put goop in my eyes.

0:33:39.760 --> 0:33:44.240
<v Speaker 2>Because anyway, made it through that. Then getting out was

0:33:44.440 --> 0:33:48.680
<v Speaker 2>the next six months after hospital was in all kinds

0:33:48.680 --> 0:33:51.360
<v Speaker 2>of petea and my arm was still the size of

0:33:51.360 --> 0:33:53.840
<v Speaker 2>a rugby ball because swelling. I still had ongoing surgeries

0:33:53.880 --> 0:33:56.239
<v Speaker 2>went on for a little while, but it'd be fair

0:33:56.320 --> 0:33:58.760
<v Speaker 2>to say that I was pretty heavily medicated. Bob and

0:33:58.960 --> 0:34:01.680
<v Speaker 2>the meds were a mets on board with oxycotton oxy

0:34:01.680 --> 0:34:04.160
<v Speaker 2>coot on GABA penton, which is a nerve med, and

0:34:06.440 --> 0:34:09.440
<v Speaker 2>in that time frame, it was still about cool that

0:34:09.520 --> 0:34:13.800
<v Speaker 2>I'm here, great that I'm here, encouragement from friends, everybody,

0:34:13.840 --> 0:34:16.840
<v Speaker 2>from Jeremy Jones, J T. Holmes, famous people and not

0:34:16.960 --> 0:34:19.880
<v Speaker 2>famous people. I didn't care. I was encouraged, glad. But

0:34:20.000 --> 0:34:24.520
<v Speaker 2>then the darkness, you know, Tolkien fan, the darkness of

0:34:24.600 --> 0:34:27.760
<v Speaker 2>Mortar set in. And I don't know if it's probably

0:34:27.800 --> 0:34:30.279
<v Speaker 2>a combination of things, but the reality is I started

0:34:30.320 --> 0:34:34.399
<v Speaker 2>getting pretty down, pretty f and depressed. I came into

0:34:34.440 --> 0:34:38.000
<v Speaker 2>the Jump pretty fit. I was working out, running, traveling,

0:34:38.160 --> 0:34:41.000
<v Speaker 2>all kinds of stuff. But now is me. I was

0:34:41.040 --> 0:34:43.360
<v Speaker 2>one hundred and forty five pounds. I was weak, I

0:34:43.400 --> 0:34:45.600
<v Speaker 2>had no muscle, and I was working with one pt

0:34:45.800 --> 0:34:49.400
<v Speaker 2>guy who's outstanding. You said, Andy, I can see you're bummed,

0:34:49.560 --> 0:34:51.960
<v Speaker 2>But you know, there's a million things you can still do.

0:34:52.040 --> 0:34:54.600
<v Speaker 2>There's about seven things you used to do you can

0:34:54.680 --> 0:34:56.640
<v Speaker 2>no longer do. What are you going to focus on?

0:34:57.239 --> 0:35:00.000
<v Speaker 2>And that helped pick me up. But the long tail

0:35:00.400 --> 0:35:04.160
<v Speaker 2>be truthful is that for the next year to two years,

0:35:04.800 --> 0:35:07.759
<v Speaker 2>I had a pretty damned good excuse to ask for

0:35:08.120 --> 0:35:11.800
<v Speaker 2>some help with pain. And I had doctors that were excellent,

0:35:11.880 --> 0:35:15.120
<v Speaker 2>doctors who were prescribing me opiates to help with that pain,

0:35:16.080 --> 0:35:18.480
<v Speaker 2>and it'd be fair to say that I was. I

0:35:18.520 --> 0:35:21.240
<v Speaker 2>had a very difficult time stepping off of the opiate.

0:35:21.280 --> 0:35:22.080
<v Speaker 1>So so how did you do it?

0:35:23.440 --> 0:35:26.600
<v Speaker 2>Oh gosh, how did I do it? First was I

0:35:26.760 --> 0:35:31.319
<v Speaker 2>was at a meeting in Jackson, Hawayoming and I saw

0:35:31.400 --> 0:35:32.920
<v Speaker 2>this TV show And I didn't know this Bob. I

0:35:33.160 --> 0:35:36.719
<v Speaker 2>kind of lived in a bit of a cave in

0:35:36.880 --> 0:35:40.479
<v Speaker 2>some ways. I watched this network show, a news deal

0:35:40.680 --> 0:35:45.680
<v Speaker 2>on how if some of the heroin addicts, let's face it,

0:35:45.719 --> 0:35:48.320
<v Speaker 2>in the rural West, there's challenges everywhere, right, and that

0:35:48.440 --> 0:35:50.360
<v Speaker 2>includes this is kind of pre fentanyl, I guess in

0:35:50.440 --> 0:35:54.200
<v Speaker 2>some ways. But they talked about heroin addicts will get

0:35:55.320 --> 0:35:58.320
<v Speaker 2>oxyconton oxy cota and if they can't get heroin, and

0:36:00.320 --> 0:36:02.759
<v Speaker 2>to scare the shit out of me, I'm not done

0:36:02.800 --> 0:36:05.320
<v Speaker 2>drugs my entire life. I'm that guy. I wear wranglers,

0:36:05.360 --> 0:36:09.000
<v Speaker 2>I work with horses, all that kind of stuff. Copenhagen Tequila.

0:36:09.360 --> 0:36:12.600
<v Speaker 2>Never had any need to do drugs, never did In

0:36:12.680 --> 0:36:15.440
<v Speaker 2>this case, I was scared shitless and I stopped for

0:36:15.480 --> 0:36:19.000
<v Speaker 2>a bit, but then ended up a couple months later

0:36:19.480 --> 0:36:21.640
<v Speaker 2>a couple of bounds with pain, get back in them,

0:36:23.040 --> 0:36:27.399
<v Speaker 2>and basically was to help support the words of JT. JT.

0:36:27.560 --> 0:36:30.520
<v Speaker 2>Holmes and other folks around me to get off it.

0:36:30.520 --> 0:36:32.840
<v Speaker 2>And then there's all there two guys, they didn't know it.

0:36:33.120 --> 0:36:36.600
<v Speaker 2>Two guys at the time were with Navy Seal Team

0:36:36.640 --> 0:36:39.759
<v Speaker 2>four Troop two that remained very dear friends of mine

0:36:40.080 --> 0:36:44.759
<v Speaker 2>to this day, Commander Ryan Hall and Zach Armstrong, who's

0:36:45.000 --> 0:36:50.040
<v Speaker 2>stepped off, and they caught win through an interesting intersection

0:36:50.160 --> 0:36:54.320
<v Speaker 2>with those guys of what my circumstance was, and they basically,

0:36:55.000 --> 0:36:57.920
<v Speaker 2>without necessarily saying it, knowing it, they challenged me to

0:36:57.960 --> 0:37:00.120
<v Speaker 2>get off my ass and stop being a pussy and

0:37:00.239 --> 0:37:03.040
<v Speaker 2>stop being a victim, and get my shit together and

0:37:03.080 --> 0:37:07.480
<v Speaker 2>get fit again. And I couldn't use the word inspired,

0:37:07.520 --> 0:37:09.799
<v Speaker 2>but it was driven by those guys to get better,

0:37:09.880 --> 0:37:12.439
<v Speaker 2>and part of that was physically get physically fit again

0:37:13.000 --> 0:37:17.680
<v Speaker 2>and get off that off those meds. Different times here

0:37:17.719 --> 0:37:20.359
<v Speaker 2>and there, I found I realized that those things are

0:37:20.400 --> 0:37:24.839
<v Speaker 2>freaking powerful. And also was in that camp of it's

0:37:24.880 --> 0:37:26.839
<v Speaker 2>a lame version of the John Wayne thing. Why take

0:37:26.920 --> 0:37:32.040
<v Speaker 2>some oxy cato oxycodone without some Jack Daniels, right, So

0:37:32.400 --> 0:37:36.240
<v Speaker 2>Jack and O and so it was a bad deal truthfully.

0:37:36.400 --> 0:37:38.399
<v Speaker 2>So it was a couple three years in there where

0:37:38.440 --> 0:37:42.080
<v Speaker 2>I was in black bad spot, but I pulled out

0:37:42.239 --> 0:37:44.480
<v Speaker 2>the friend JT and others, and also pulled out with

0:37:44.480 --> 0:37:49.319
<v Speaker 2>the friends Commander Ryan Hall and Zach Armstrong got back

0:37:49.360 --> 0:37:51.520
<v Speaker 2>into riding my bike. First time I got on a bike.

0:37:51.520 --> 0:37:54.560
<v Speaker 2>I'd ridden bikes, race bikes for parts of my life.

0:37:55.000 --> 0:37:58.040
<v Speaker 2>I rode for two miles and was exhausted. It was

0:37:58.600 --> 0:38:02.400
<v Speaker 2>so like crap. You got to be kidney, but then

0:38:02.440 --> 0:38:04.880
<v Speaker 2>stuck with it because these guys got my shit together,

0:38:05.080 --> 0:38:07.279
<v Speaker 2>got off. Those had a couple more bouts, but I've

0:38:07.320 --> 0:38:10.399
<v Speaker 2>been able to step off without going to any other

0:38:10.600 --> 0:38:12.279
<v Speaker 2>clinics or anything like that. So that's how.

0:38:12.880 --> 0:38:15.440
<v Speaker 1>So as we sit here right now, are you in pain? No?

0:38:16.760 --> 0:38:18.680
<v Speaker 2>I can find it if you want me to, pretty easily,

0:38:18.760 --> 0:38:22.520
<v Speaker 2>but no. Okay, So where are you from? Originally I

0:38:22.640 --> 0:38:24.440
<v Speaker 2>am a product of the US Air Force. My dad

0:38:24.560 --> 0:38:26.520
<v Speaker 2>was a fighter pilot. I was born in West Germany,

0:38:27.120 --> 0:38:29.920
<v Speaker 2>back when there was a West and an East Germany, right,

0:38:30.000 --> 0:38:32.399
<v Speaker 2>you and I know this now there are folks under

0:38:32.400 --> 0:38:35.600
<v Speaker 2>the you know, reminding them, Hey, there used to be

0:38:35.640 --> 0:38:39.160
<v Speaker 2>a West. I'm not talking Western Germany. So West Germany

0:38:39.200 --> 0:38:41.000
<v Speaker 2>and then lived in Scotland. When my dad would go

0:38:41.000 --> 0:38:43.800
<v Speaker 2>over seas to fight in the war fly he flew's

0:38:44.280 --> 0:38:46.520
<v Speaker 2>flu F four phantoms. In fact, i'm burying him later

0:38:46.600 --> 0:38:50.160
<v Speaker 2>this week up in Montana. Your father just died, died

0:38:50.160 --> 0:38:52.480
<v Speaker 2>about a year and a half ago, and I have

0:38:52.600 --> 0:38:55.040
<v Speaker 2>his remains. His wishes were free for me as a

0:38:55.920 --> 0:38:59.320
<v Speaker 2>young new pilot to fly his ashes over the Grand

0:39:00.040 --> 0:39:02.600
<v Speaker 2>Titan National Park. So I'm doing that on Thursday afternoon,

0:39:03.840 --> 0:39:06.200
<v Speaker 2>and so yeah, I'm excited to do that and get

0:39:06.239 --> 0:39:09.959
<v Speaker 2>that to honor his wishes. But so son of fighter

0:39:10.040 --> 0:39:13.600
<v Speaker 2>pilot Scotland, Germany, Germany, Scotland. And then I think it

0:39:13.719 --> 0:39:15.920
<v Speaker 2>was about ten or so, moved to southern New Mexico.

0:39:16.040 --> 0:39:18.839
<v Speaker 2>Lived in southern New Mexico for a while Holloman Air

0:39:18.880 --> 0:39:22.319
<v Speaker 2>Force Base, and then we moved to Virginia Langley Air

0:39:22.400 --> 0:39:25.319
<v Speaker 2>Force Bace. And then my dad retired and we ended

0:39:25.400 --> 0:39:27.280
<v Speaker 2>up moving around. But I've been it was in Colorado

0:39:27.560 --> 0:39:30.240
<v Speaker 2>since seventy nine. Moved to Colorado, missourim.

0:39:30.239 --> 0:39:34.360
<v Speaker 1>What year were you born? Sixty three? Okay, So typical

0:39:34.520 --> 0:39:38.319
<v Speaker 1>Air Force brats can get along with anybody because they've

0:39:38.320 --> 0:39:42.000
<v Speaker 1>been moving so much in the relatively self reliant. Would

0:39:42.040 --> 0:39:42.880
<v Speaker 1>that describe you?

0:39:44.040 --> 0:39:48.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? The only thing is I resist the ever rebut

0:39:49.280 --> 0:39:52.360
<v Speaker 2>was the word to reject? The word brat? I was

0:39:52.440 --> 0:39:55.319
<v Speaker 2>a prideful son of a fighter pilot. He wasn't much

0:39:55.360 --> 0:39:57.000
<v Speaker 2>of a dad, but he was a kick ass air

0:39:57.080 --> 0:40:00.120
<v Speaker 2>combat warrior and I respect him greatly for that, and

0:40:00.200 --> 0:40:01.960
<v Speaker 2>I don't think he would have ever called me a brat.

0:40:02.719 --> 0:40:06.239
<v Speaker 1>Well that's what I say. Sorry for the judgment. Come on,

0:40:06.520 --> 0:40:07.839
<v Speaker 1>that's a you know, a term.

0:40:08.120 --> 0:40:11.279
<v Speaker 2>Totally kidding you, totally no, no problem, okay, But so

0:40:11.560 --> 0:40:15.279
<v Speaker 2>so the point being is I call it chameleon when

0:40:15.320 --> 0:40:17.800
<v Speaker 2>you're when you grew up in that environment, different cultures,

0:40:18.280 --> 0:40:21.279
<v Speaker 2>you learn how chameleon into different places in the answers, Yes,

0:40:21.360 --> 0:40:23.239
<v Speaker 2>I feel like I can fit in almost anywhere I can.

0:40:23.760 --> 0:40:25.560
<v Speaker 2>I may not look like I'm from there, but I

0:40:25.600 --> 0:40:28.520
<v Speaker 2>can usually figure it out. And I was spent a

0:40:28.600 --> 0:40:31.240
<v Speaker 2>year and a half in Saudi Arabia, Northwest Saudi Arabia

0:40:31.239 --> 0:40:34.000
<v Speaker 2>about two years ago and was great there. Comfortable there,

0:40:34.040 --> 0:40:37.200
<v Speaker 2>It was a little bit warm, but yeah, good to go. Okay, siblings,

0:40:37.640 --> 0:40:39.520
<v Speaker 2>I have an older sister. This is a big thing

0:40:39.560 --> 0:40:40.920
<v Speaker 2>for you, isn't it the family thing?

0:40:41.520 --> 0:40:43.360
<v Speaker 1>Well, you want to know where someone comes from. We

0:40:43.440 --> 0:40:45.719
<v Speaker 1>got a lot of territory to cover up. I won't

0:40:45.760 --> 0:40:48.239
<v Speaker 1>exactly go into why I ask all those questions, but

0:40:48.719 --> 0:40:50.920
<v Speaker 1>you know, in birth order those things really matter. So

0:40:51.000 --> 0:40:52.360
<v Speaker 1>when was the first time you skied?

0:40:53.640 --> 0:40:56.160
<v Speaker 2>When I was in we were in southern New Mexico

0:40:56.840 --> 0:41:01.960
<v Speaker 2>and there was a little scaria near due east of Almagordo.

0:41:03.120 --> 0:41:05.640
<v Speaker 2>At that time, it was called Sierra Blanca and it

0:41:05.719 --> 0:41:10.359
<v Speaker 2>was owned by the Muscalleo Apache Indian tribe. And learned

0:41:10.400 --> 0:41:12.800
<v Speaker 2>how to ski there as part of a you know,

0:41:12.880 --> 0:41:14.840
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, somebody grabbed me, I think id of

0:41:16.120 --> 0:41:17.879
<v Speaker 2>You know, no dads are on the air Force base.

0:41:17.960 --> 0:41:21.280
<v Speaker 2>It's all a tactical air command base, all the squadrons overseas,

0:41:21.880 --> 0:41:23.640
<v Speaker 2>and so I have no idea it took me, but

0:41:23.840 --> 0:41:27.320
<v Speaker 2>went skiing up near Ridoso in southern New Mexico for

0:41:27.360 --> 0:41:29.279
<v Speaker 2>a time as skid was air, but then really got

0:41:29.320 --> 0:41:32.080
<v Speaker 2>into it in college for Collins.

0:41:32.200 --> 0:41:33.680
<v Speaker 1>When you get to college, was this the type of

0:41:33.760 --> 0:41:36.719
<v Speaker 1>thing you did once and the Heaven's opened, this is

0:41:36.800 --> 0:41:38.400
<v Speaker 1>my thing? Or did it take a while to be

0:41:38.520 --> 0:41:39.720
<v Speaker 1>that invested.

0:41:40.160 --> 0:41:43.080
<v Speaker 2>Somewhere in between? I couldn't say there was an epiphany

0:41:43.239 --> 0:41:46.400
<v Speaker 2>or a light bulb or heavens open, the clouds parting.

0:41:46.680 --> 0:41:48.760
<v Speaker 2>But at the same time, I was like, this is great.

0:41:50.000 --> 0:41:53.399
<v Speaker 2>Also keep in mind, although the desert is certainly fun

0:41:53.520 --> 0:41:55.960
<v Speaker 2>for a kid when you're ten chasing lizards and stuff,

0:41:56.320 --> 0:41:59.000
<v Speaker 2>you get up to this environment near upt mountains and

0:41:59.320 --> 0:42:02.000
<v Speaker 2>loved that. Right, spend some time in the mountains in

0:42:02.040 --> 0:42:05.399
<v Speaker 2>Scotland and Germany. But I did love it. I loved

0:42:05.440 --> 0:42:08.719
<v Speaker 2>being in that environment and I loved trying something new,

0:42:09.040 --> 0:42:19.520
<v Speaker 2>and so yeah, I did enjoy it, Okay, So tell

0:42:19.560 --> 0:42:23.640
<v Speaker 2>me about getting back into it seriously in college Colorado

0:42:23.680 --> 0:42:28.239
<v Speaker 2>State University, Go Rams was there, and it's just what

0:42:28.400 --> 0:42:30.960
<v Speaker 2>we did Port Collins, Colorado. If you know Colorado, which

0:42:31.000 --> 0:42:34.160
<v Speaker 2>I think you do, we would scheme winter Park Mary

0:42:34.280 --> 0:42:36.080
<v Speaker 2>Jane for the day, but then we would go to

0:42:36.160 --> 0:42:39.759
<v Speaker 2>Steamboat for the weekends because you kick a northerly route

0:42:39.800 --> 0:42:43.240
<v Speaker 2>through the Kashlipooter River down into Walden and a crossing

0:42:43.280 --> 0:42:46.640
<v Speaker 2>the steamboat. So I just totally dug on it, just

0:42:46.719 --> 0:42:50.480
<v Speaker 2>got way into it, and freshman year on just going

0:42:50.560 --> 0:42:52.640
<v Speaker 2>up with friends winter Park Marriage Jane for the day

0:42:52.680 --> 0:42:55.719
<v Speaker 2>and Steamboat for the weekend. Loved it, Okay. So you

0:42:56.080 --> 0:42:59.799
<v Speaker 2>ultimately work at Steamboat. You graduate from college, what are

0:42:59.840 --> 0:43:03.080
<v Speaker 2>your first jobs and how do you end up at Steamboat? Yeah?

0:43:03.360 --> 0:43:08.080
<v Speaker 2>Completely by accident. I was formative elements to answer that

0:43:08.200 --> 0:43:09.920
<v Speaker 2>question of critical I was a back country ranger in

0:43:10.000 --> 0:43:13.120
<v Speaker 2>Recommanded National Park. My grandfather ran in the National Park

0:43:13.200 --> 0:43:17.440
<v Speaker 2>Service for three presidents Eisenhower, Kennedy and Johnson. And I

0:43:17.840 --> 0:43:20.280
<v Speaker 2>grew up in a family where he was the patriarch

0:43:20.400 --> 0:43:26.600
<v Speaker 2>or the family. Conrad Worth, you know, respected, sorry, respected, veered,

0:43:27.480 --> 0:43:30.840
<v Speaker 2>remarkable man did incredible things post World War Two for

0:43:31.160 --> 0:43:33.320
<v Speaker 2>our national parks. And I grew up in that environment.

0:43:33.360 --> 0:43:36.240
<v Speaker 2>In fact, was reading the works of Eldo Leopold Santa

0:43:36.480 --> 0:43:41.440
<v Speaker 2>Sound County Almanac, and you know, certainly John Muir. I

0:43:41.520 --> 0:43:43.080
<v Speaker 2>mean I grew up in Some folks grew up in

0:43:43.160 --> 0:43:47.600
<v Speaker 2>households with football teams, religions. Mine was conservation preservation and

0:43:47.640 --> 0:43:50.600
<v Speaker 2>the works of John Muir and Elder Leopold and these

0:43:50.680 --> 0:43:56.000
<v Speaker 2>great people who established this culture and thinking of care

0:43:56.120 --> 0:43:59.480
<v Speaker 2>for the lands. Preservation conservation mean different things. But I

0:44:00.239 --> 0:44:04.600
<v Speaker 2>was aiming that direction. And UH couldn't quite pay for college,

0:44:05.000 --> 0:44:08.720
<v Speaker 2>uh doing the rock the ranger thing, So they shifted

0:44:08.760 --> 0:44:11.919
<v Speaker 2>gears to fighting wildland fire. On an initial attack Crew

0:44:12.000 --> 0:44:15.080
<v Speaker 2>Type one crew in New Mexico, and UH loved that.

0:44:15.400 --> 0:44:17.920
<v Speaker 2>I was a sawyer on a shock crew and made

0:44:17.920 --> 0:44:20.200
<v Speaker 2>a whole bunch of money doing that. I loved debt

0:44:20.280 --> 0:44:23.640
<v Speaker 2>work too. Love debt work, still miss it and the

0:44:23.719 --> 0:44:26.560
<v Speaker 2>crew that we was with, but couldn't see a career

0:44:27.680 --> 0:44:30.200
<v Speaker 2>developing out of either of those deals. But I certainly

0:44:30.280 --> 0:44:34.440
<v Speaker 2>loved the mountains. Was headed to grad school. Was actually

0:44:34.440 --> 0:44:37.680
<v Speaker 2>accepted to a really nice UH university up in northern

0:44:37.719 --> 0:44:41.640
<v Speaker 2>California to study what I was going to get my MBA. Yep,

0:44:41.760 --> 0:44:44.240
<v Speaker 2>I had shifted and took a whole bunch of business classes.

0:44:45.280 --> 0:44:48.120
<v Speaker 2>Took the LSATZ, figured I was I know you were

0:44:48.120 --> 0:44:50.440
<v Speaker 2>an attorney. I thought about becoming an attorney, went nah,

0:44:51.080 --> 0:44:52.600
<v Speaker 2>ended up getting my I was headed to get my

0:44:52.719 --> 0:44:55.480
<v Speaker 2>MBA applied to him. Was shocked to get accepted to

0:44:55.560 --> 0:44:58.560
<v Speaker 2>a very high end program. I freaking hate name dropping,

0:44:58.680 --> 0:44:59.800
<v Speaker 2>so I'm not going to say it, but it was

0:44:59.840 --> 0:45:03.480
<v Speaker 2>a really nice school in northern California. But then all

0:45:03.480 --> 0:45:05.719
<v Speaker 2>of a sudden, somebody told me I needed to my

0:45:05.800 --> 0:45:07.320
<v Speaker 2>counselor said, hey, by the way, you need to do

0:45:07.360 --> 0:45:10.359
<v Speaker 2>an internship to complete your undergraduate degree. And they're going

0:45:10.400 --> 0:45:12.239
<v Speaker 2>to need. You're going to have to have that be

0:45:12.280 --> 0:45:15.680
<v Speaker 2>where you start school at getting your MBA. It's like,

0:45:15.760 --> 0:45:17.600
<v Speaker 2>oh crap. At that time, I was on the crew

0:45:17.640 --> 0:45:20.239
<v Speaker 2>team rowing for this school. I had gone over to

0:45:20.440 --> 0:45:24.400
<v Speaker 2>Europe into a year in Scotland University of Edinburgh study

0:45:24.560 --> 0:45:27.880
<v Speaker 2>history and economics. There, worked for my uncle on weekends

0:45:28.040 --> 0:45:31.120
<v Speaker 2>up in the Highlands. Came back was now extended a

0:45:31.160 --> 0:45:33.680
<v Speaker 2>little bit because some of the credits and transfer. Long

0:45:33.719 --> 0:45:36.560
<v Speaker 2>story short is was head of that direction.

0:45:36.760 --> 0:45:37.000
<v Speaker 1>Crap.

0:45:37.080 --> 0:45:40.440
<v Speaker 2>I got to do this internship. What the hell? And

0:45:41.520 --> 0:45:45.359
<v Speaker 2>just aircraft carriers slammed into an internship at Steamboat Ski

0:45:45.440 --> 0:45:50.120
<v Speaker 2>Area June two of nineteen eighty six. I started, and

0:45:50.520 --> 0:45:54.200
<v Speaker 2>I was quite by accident. It was completely velcrode and

0:45:54.280 --> 0:45:56.800
<v Speaker 2>duct taped together, and it was just to punch a

0:45:57.280 --> 0:46:01.520
<v Speaker 2>you know, to check off a box. And it turns

0:46:01.560 --> 0:46:04.640
<v Speaker 2>out dumb luck. A lot of my it's been good fortune,

0:46:04.680 --> 0:46:06.799
<v Speaker 2>dumb luck. But I can work pretty hard. But at

0:46:06.840 --> 0:46:09.080
<v Speaker 2>the same time, I'm never the smartest person in the room.

0:46:09.120 --> 0:46:11.160
<v Speaker 2>In this case, I was the only person in this

0:46:11.400 --> 0:46:13.440
<v Speaker 2>entire company at Steamboat who knew how to run these

0:46:13.480 --> 0:46:17.000
<v Speaker 2>new things called spreadsheets. It was lotus one point one

0:46:17.080 --> 0:46:21.680
<v Speaker 2>two X and I became as an intern because I

0:46:21.840 --> 0:46:24.760
<v Speaker 2>was there willing to do anything. It was an unpaid internship,

0:46:24.840 --> 0:46:27.960
<v Speaker 2>so I worked internship from eight thirty am to five.

0:46:28.760 --> 0:46:31.200
<v Speaker 2>I was racing road bikes two so I'd train and

0:46:31.280 --> 0:46:32.879
<v Speaker 2>then try and sleep for a few hours, and then

0:46:33.120 --> 0:46:35.480
<v Speaker 2>I'd work at midnight as a night time monitor at

0:46:35.520 --> 0:46:38.359
<v Speaker 2>a hotel in Steamboat to try and make some money

0:46:38.360 --> 0:46:42.279
<v Speaker 2>because internship didn't pay. But it was like hell bent

0:46:42.320 --> 0:46:45.440
<v Speaker 2>to get it done. A couple months and so go in.

0:46:45.680 --> 0:46:51.680
<v Speaker 2>But in that period of time was able to become welcomed,

0:46:51.760 --> 0:46:53.960
<v Speaker 2>I guess you could say by the CFO, the VP

0:46:54.080 --> 0:46:56.880
<v Speaker 2>of marketing, the president of the company, and through that

0:46:57.000 --> 0:46:59.000
<v Speaker 2>work with Excel, I ended up by the end of

0:46:59.080 --> 0:47:01.000
<v Speaker 2>the internship they said, hey, why don't you stay here

0:47:01.040 --> 0:47:02.400
<v Speaker 2>and work force for a couple of years, then go

0:47:02.440 --> 0:47:05.640
<v Speaker 2>get your MBA, into which case I'll never forget, thinking, well,

0:47:05.680 --> 0:47:07.400
<v Speaker 2>this is cool, I get to go right now at

0:47:07.480 --> 0:47:10.520
<v Speaker 2>least combine my love of living in the mountains, skiing,

0:47:11.080 --> 0:47:14.440
<v Speaker 2>and some kind of viable work in making money doing

0:47:14.520 --> 0:47:18.919
<v Speaker 2>something other than hengel rescue or fighting wild land fire.

0:47:19.560 --> 0:47:22.879
<v Speaker 2>And it was completely by accident, Bob, that I ended

0:47:22.960 --> 0:47:24.279
<v Speaker 2>up in the ski business. And that's how.

0:47:24.800 --> 0:47:29.080
<v Speaker 1>Okay, needles say you never left for MBA school, That's right.

0:47:29.239 --> 0:47:33.160
<v Speaker 1>If you work in the ski business frequently, you don't

0:47:33.239 --> 0:47:37.359
<v Speaker 1>ski that much. So you're working at Steamboat. How many

0:47:37.440 --> 0:47:38.640
<v Speaker 1>years were you at Steamboat?

0:47:39.360 --> 0:47:40.600
<v Speaker 2>Twenty just under twenty years?

0:47:41.000 --> 0:47:43.239
<v Speaker 1>How much did you actually ski? If you're there for

0:47:43.320 --> 0:47:45.480
<v Speaker 1>twenty years, you were moved up the corporate ladder.

0:47:45.719 --> 0:47:49.600
<v Speaker 2>It points extremely well made. And the answer is always

0:47:49.680 --> 0:47:51.719
<v Speaker 2>never as much as you want, and never as much

0:47:52.040 --> 0:47:55.640
<v Speaker 2>as people think. To your point, and gosh, I don't know.

0:47:55.840 --> 0:47:59.200
<v Speaker 2>I loved it. I loved Steamboat. I love champagne powder snow,

0:48:00.000 --> 0:48:03.279
<v Speaker 2>really light dry snow that falls very uniquely in a

0:48:03.320 --> 0:48:05.840
<v Speaker 2>few places. You were a little cottonwood guy at some point, right,

0:48:06.800 --> 0:48:09.479
<v Speaker 2>and there's very police places on the planet where snow

0:48:09.520 --> 0:48:13.960
<v Speaker 2>falls with that level that moisture content. Right, and go

0:48:14.120 --> 0:48:17.120
<v Speaker 2>techy on you if you want there. But loved it.

0:48:17.239 --> 0:48:20.000
<v Speaker 2>And I don't know, I'm probably skied twenty five thirty

0:48:20.040 --> 0:48:22.680
<v Speaker 2>five times a year, but I was definitely working hard.

0:48:23.120 --> 0:48:25.759
<v Speaker 2>And so I quickly ended up with a family and

0:48:25.840 --> 0:48:30.080
<v Speaker 2>a couple of step kids, and ended up with a

0:48:30.160 --> 0:48:32.360
<v Speaker 2>place north of Steamboat, a little horse ranch north of

0:48:32.440 --> 0:48:35.440
<v Speaker 2>steamboat about eighteen miles. So I ended up working two

0:48:35.680 --> 0:48:38.840
<v Speaker 2>sometimes three jobs just to pull things together. So I

0:48:38.920 --> 0:48:40.200
<v Speaker 2>didn't ski much because of that.

0:48:40.320 --> 0:48:42.640
<v Speaker 1>Oh well, if you're working for the corporation, what are

0:48:42.680 --> 0:48:43.719
<v Speaker 1>the other jobs you're doing.

0:48:44.480 --> 0:48:47.240
<v Speaker 2>I was pretty handy with a chainsaw, so on weekends

0:48:47.280 --> 0:48:50.040
<v Speaker 2>i'd go help a fella who had a business where

0:48:50.080 --> 0:48:54.440
<v Speaker 2>he was clearing brush and clearing out places for people.

0:48:54.800 --> 0:48:57.080
<v Speaker 2>And I was kind of a hard worker and could

0:48:57.080 --> 0:49:00.360
<v Speaker 2>work a saw pretty well, so I did that. I

0:49:00.480 --> 0:49:03.360
<v Speaker 2>also would pick up pick up different kind of miniature,

0:49:04.120 --> 0:49:07.880
<v Speaker 2>many consulting jobs with folks using my spreadsheet skills and

0:49:07.960 --> 0:49:13.960
<v Speaker 2>some modeling quantitative analytics, and those weren't particularly taxing, but

0:49:14.040 --> 0:49:14.879
<v Speaker 2>they took a lot of time.

0:49:15.880 --> 0:49:19.040
<v Speaker 1>Okay, who owned steamboat when you started?

0:49:19.440 --> 0:49:22.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? Great, great guy by the name Martin Hart in

0:49:22.480 --> 0:49:24.759
<v Speaker 2>a consortium of other owners, and that was in eighty six.

0:49:25.200 --> 0:49:28.000
<v Speaker 2>He ended up selling it in eighty nine to a

0:49:28.120 --> 0:49:32.640
<v Speaker 2>Japanese group called Kamori Kanko. And because of my spreadsheet

0:49:32.680 --> 0:49:35.520
<v Speaker 2>skills and the quantitative quant I was a bit of

0:49:35.560 --> 0:49:39.400
<v Speaker 2>a quant. I got pulled pretty quickly into the transaction

0:49:39.719 --> 0:49:44.080
<v Speaker 2>and running the analysis, sorry, running analysis in the like

0:49:44.600 --> 0:49:49.359
<v Speaker 2>to help facilitate that transaction. So yeah, it was Martin Hart.

0:49:49.800 --> 0:49:53.240
<v Speaker 2>Wonderful gentleman, great guy, deep roots in the Steamboat community.

0:49:53.280 --> 0:49:55.320
<v Speaker 2>He was on the board at Pepsi for instance, PepsiCo

0:49:56.040 --> 0:49:58.319
<v Speaker 2>and others. Just brilliant guy of a lot of roots

0:49:58.360 --> 0:50:01.720
<v Speaker 2>in Steamboat. And then Kamara Japanese group out of support

0:50:01.760 --> 0:50:04.320
<v Speaker 2>about it, and I'll stop there. I think I've answered

0:50:04.320 --> 0:50:04.719
<v Speaker 2>your question.

0:50:05.320 --> 0:50:07.680
<v Speaker 1>Okay, so you left. Who owned it.

0:50:09.400 --> 0:50:13.920
<v Speaker 2>When I left? Yeah, oh that was okay, Now fastward,

0:50:13.960 --> 0:50:19.640
<v Speaker 2>So it's Kimora Kanko and then we bought Heavenly and

0:50:19.719 --> 0:50:22.000
<v Speaker 2>now I have to recreate this in my mind. And

0:50:22.120 --> 0:50:26.759
<v Speaker 2>then there's American Skiing Company less Hoten the Canyons, and

0:50:26.800 --> 0:50:29.840
<v Speaker 2>I had some responsibility for a bunch of resorts on that.

0:50:30.200 --> 0:50:33.840
<v Speaker 2>In that case you're from New England. Absolutely, So I

0:50:33.960 --> 0:50:36.360
<v Speaker 2>ended up pretty close to moving to Bethel, Maine to

0:50:36.400 --> 0:50:38.200
<v Speaker 2>work with American Ski Company. It was like, man, this

0:50:38.280 --> 0:50:41.680
<v Speaker 2>is pretty cool town nothing in my life had I

0:50:41.840 --> 0:50:45.560
<v Speaker 2>seen like it was like a TV movie set, like

0:50:45.880 --> 0:50:48.080
<v Speaker 2>town Square. And all ended up not going there but

0:50:48.640 --> 0:50:53.479
<v Speaker 2>American Skiing Company and we ended up, long story short,

0:50:53.640 --> 0:50:56.399
<v Speaker 2>ended up selling it to a group called Fortress Investment Group,

0:50:56.840 --> 0:51:00.319
<v Speaker 2>large pe firm they might have nowadays probably two three

0:51:00.400 --> 0:51:03.919
<v Speaker 2>hundred million billion under management. In that case, guy named

0:51:04.239 --> 0:51:07.640
<v Speaker 2>Wes Edens was one of the four founders of Fortress.

0:51:07.960 --> 0:51:10.080
<v Speaker 2>He was a skier. He went to Montana State undergraduate

0:51:10.280 --> 0:51:12.800
<v Speaker 2>ski racer, then he went to Harvard, got his MBA,

0:51:13.200 --> 0:51:15.440
<v Speaker 2>then off to the races. But he was held bent

0:51:15.560 --> 0:51:19.160
<v Speaker 2>for owning Steamboat. He also contemporaneously was working on a

0:51:19.200 --> 0:51:22.520
<v Speaker 2>transaction with Buying Interest, which was a Canadian owned company

0:51:23.160 --> 0:51:26.320
<v Speaker 2>sold on the Toronto Stock Exchange, the TSX. So he

0:51:26.480 --> 0:51:31.000
<v Speaker 2>bought Fortress, bought Interest the same rough time bought Steamboat.

0:51:31.120 --> 0:51:34.520
<v Speaker 2>I was a big part of that transaction and was

0:51:34.560 --> 0:51:36.520
<v Speaker 2>there for a little bit, and then it got pulled

0:51:36.600 --> 0:51:40.200
<v Speaker 2>up to Vancouver to work with the parent up there,

0:51:40.239 --> 0:51:42.719
<v Speaker 2>the parent company up in Vancouver, Canada. And had a

0:51:43.080 --> 0:51:45.960
<v Speaker 2>just great time up there because its forty eight or

0:51:46.000 --> 0:51:48.640
<v Speaker 2>an hour forty eight minutes away from Whistler. Skied got

0:51:48.719 --> 0:51:51.399
<v Speaker 2>up there as much as I possibly could, and went

0:51:51.400 --> 0:51:54.920
<v Speaker 2>back and forth between Steamboat and Vancouver, and I stepped

0:51:54.960 --> 0:51:59.399
<v Speaker 2>off Steamboat. Stepped out of Steamboat in twenty ten as

0:51:59.480 --> 0:52:01.840
<v Speaker 2>part of an eu nique circumstance with Squaw Valley to

0:52:01.880 --> 0:52:02.919
<v Speaker 2>acquire Squad Valley.

0:52:04.520 --> 0:52:08.520
<v Speaker 1>Okay, you worked at Squaw Valley for how many years total?

0:52:09.760 --> 0:52:12.359
<v Speaker 2>Shoot? Seven I think?

0:52:13.080 --> 0:52:14.879
<v Speaker 1>And when was the last year you were there?

0:52:15.200 --> 0:52:17.800
<v Speaker 2>I believe it was twenty seventeen, but I reserved the

0:52:17.880 --> 0:52:18.479
<v Speaker 2>right to be wrong.

0:52:18.680 --> 0:52:24.240
<v Speaker 1>Okay. So there's been an incredible modernization in Olympic Valley.

0:52:24.320 --> 0:52:28.160
<v Speaker 1>There's been the gondola between Alpine and Squaw. H How

0:52:28.239 --> 0:52:30.680
<v Speaker 1>much of that was in place in terms of plans

0:52:30.719 --> 0:52:31.719
<v Speaker 1>before you got there?

0:52:32.920 --> 0:52:33.160
<v Speaker 2>None?

0:52:34.640 --> 0:52:37.520
<v Speaker 1>So that is something. Let's just talk about the link

0:52:37.560 --> 0:52:40.240
<v Speaker 1>between Alpine and Squad That has been something that's bandied

0:52:40.280 --> 0:52:44.480
<v Speaker 1>about for decades. How did you finally make that happen?

0:52:46.160 --> 0:52:47.680
<v Speaker 2>I'll give you as brief an answer as I can.

0:52:48.120 --> 0:52:52.640
<v Speaker 2>So I took the role running as CEO of Squad Valley.

0:52:53.400 --> 0:52:55.440
<v Speaker 2>Prior to that, a year prior, I'd gone down to

0:52:55.440 --> 0:52:57.920
<v Speaker 2>Squad Valley with an asset manager from Fortress to buy it.

0:53:00.200 --> 0:53:02.000
<v Speaker 2>Got to know the asset. If you will allow me

0:53:02.120 --> 0:53:04.120
<v Speaker 2>to talk, not like a skier for a moment and

0:53:04.200 --> 0:53:07.520
<v Speaker 2>more like a pe guy for a moment. I have

0:53:07.600 --> 0:53:10.560
<v Speaker 2>as much passion for mountains as skiing as anybody, But

0:53:10.680 --> 0:53:13.239
<v Speaker 2>at the same time I had a role and got

0:53:13.280 --> 0:53:16.000
<v Speaker 2>to know the business pretty well at that time, the

0:53:17.360 --> 0:53:20.440
<v Speaker 2>widow of Alex Cushing kind of the kind of the founder.

0:53:20.640 --> 0:53:22.879
<v Speaker 2>One could argue that Polsons founded it. I think they'd

0:53:22.920 --> 0:53:27.480
<v Speaker 2>be right in that assertion, but Nancy Cushing was only

0:53:27.520 --> 0:53:29.720
<v Speaker 2>willing to sell that time forty two percent of the company,

0:53:29.960 --> 0:53:32.719
<v Speaker 2>which was a no go. But in the meantime I

0:53:32.800 --> 0:53:35.040
<v Speaker 2>learned a lot about it and it was WHOA, this

0:53:35.239 --> 0:53:40.120
<v Speaker 2>is a incredible mountain. Incredible mountain. A year later got

0:53:40.160 --> 0:53:41.800
<v Speaker 2>a call out of a clear blue sky from a

0:53:42.800 --> 0:53:45.839
<v Speaker 2>CEO that I knew from American Skiing Company. Instreingly enough,

0:53:45.880 --> 0:53:50.120
<v Speaker 2>and some family litigation had been settled and Nancy Kushing

0:53:50.160 --> 0:53:52.640
<v Speaker 2>no longer had controlling interest of the company. Part of

0:53:52.680 --> 0:53:55.800
<v Speaker 2>the settlement was that she was now a minority shareholder

0:53:56.200 --> 0:53:58.240
<v Speaker 2>and I was asked to come out and be CEO

0:53:58.280 --> 0:54:03.640
<v Speaker 2>of Squad Valley at that time, and this is not

0:54:03.719 --> 0:54:06.560
<v Speaker 2>necessarily a scoop, but first time really discussed this publicly.

0:54:08.719 --> 0:54:12.000
<v Speaker 2>Some of the family members had us, what's it take

0:54:12.080 --> 0:54:14.560
<v Speaker 2>to get you here? And I said, really, this is

0:54:14.640 --> 0:54:18.080
<v Speaker 2>a place where careers go to die. And I love

0:54:18.120 --> 0:54:22.560
<v Speaker 2>the mountain and I love the area. Such incredible mountain,

0:54:23.760 --> 0:54:26.080
<v Speaker 2>but from a career perspective. I'm on a pretty good track.

0:54:26.640 --> 0:54:28.759
<v Speaker 2>I know the asset really well. I know what could

0:54:28.840 --> 0:54:30.640
<v Speaker 2>happen here. Boy, I am going to do this, And

0:54:31.080 --> 0:54:33.080
<v Speaker 2>they said, what's it taken said, well, honestly, this place

0:54:33.160 --> 0:54:36.680
<v Speaker 2>needs new ownership more than anything else. And they said,

0:54:36.920 --> 0:54:39.040
<v Speaker 2>can you help us with that? I said, yeah, past

0:54:39.120 --> 0:54:41.440
<v Speaker 2>ten years, I've been working in the strategic side of things,

0:54:41.520 --> 0:54:43.839
<v Speaker 2>or George Bush would say the strategicy side of things.

0:54:45.160 --> 0:54:47.759
<v Speaker 2>So in this case, I said, yeah, if you guys

0:54:47.840 --> 0:54:49.919
<v Speaker 2>want me to line up a transaction with this place,

0:54:49.960 --> 0:54:52.520
<v Speaker 2>I guarantee you I can line it up. So before

0:54:53.880 --> 0:54:57.959
<v Speaker 2>taking the role and just on a handshake, I lined

0:54:58.040 --> 0:55:02.479
<v Speaker 2>up transaction A perspective buyer turns out was a group

0:55:03.680 --> 0:55:06.440
<v Speaker 2>called the KSL Capital Partners based out of Cherry Creek, Colorado.

0:55:06.760 --> 0:55:11.000
<v Speaker 2>They were number two behind Fortress and acquiring Steamboat, so

0:55:11.040 --> 0:55:14.319
<v Speaker 2>I knew them pretty well. A couple former Veil guys

0:55:14.400 --> 0:55:17.840
<v Speaker 2>were running the show. Three Veil guys were Veiled associates

0:55:17.840 --> 0:55:19.640
<v Speaker 2>guys running the show down there, and knew them pretty well.

0:55:20.239 --> 0:55:22.480
<v Speaker 2>And I started August two, and I think it was

0:55:22.560 --> 0:55:26.080
<v Speaker 2>by September tenth, I had an exclusive letter of intent

0:55:26.520 --> 0:55:31.759
<v Speaker 2>in hand from KSL interested in acquiring Squad Valley. Ended

0:55:31.800 --> 0:55:37.279
<v Speaker 2>up a very sophisticated financial a group on one side

0:55:37.360 --> 0:55:40.640
<v Speaker 2>and something not that on the other side. With Squad Valley.

0:55:40.680 --> 0:55:43.279
<v Speaker 2>I was brand new. I didn't know much frankly, but

0:55:43.600 --> 0:55:46.400
<v Speaker 2>was able to push that transaction through where we closed

0:55:46.480 --> 0:55:50.239
<v Speaker 2>on the transaction I think October fifteenth, October twentieth, so

0:55:50.360 --> 0:55:52.640
<v Speaker 2>in about thirty forty five days, closed on the transaction,

0:55:52.760 --> 0:55:55.120
<v Speaker 2>which is lightning speed in almost any case, and the

0:55:55.160 --> 0:55:58.719
<v Speaker 2>one hundred and seventy three million bucks on that transaction,

0:55:59.239 --> 0:56:03.640
<v Speaker 2>and celebrated for about fifteen minutes, went for a few turns,

0:56:03.680 --> 0:56:07.000
<v Speaker 2>then immediately turned my attention to Alpine Meadows. Turned on

0:56:07.120 --> 0:56:11.239
<v Speaker 2>my heels, started reaching out to the PE Group small

0:56:11.280 --> 0:56:16.839
<v Speaker 2>PE group out of California called JMA JMA based out

0:56:16.840 --> 0:56:21.200
<v Speaker 2>of San Francisco to inquire about buying Alpine Meadows, and

0:56:21.719 --> 0:56:24.800
<v Speaker 2>so was able to line up a transaction to acquire

0:56:24.840 --> 0:56:29.120
<v Speaker 2>Alpine Meadows about a year and changed later November fifteenth

0:56:30.160 --> 0:56:36.600
<v Speaker 2>see eleven. Yeah, twenty eleven, arranged that transaction for that transaction,

0:56:36.719 --> 0:56:39.200
<v Speaker 2>I think we closed on December two, and now we

0:56:39.320 --> 0:56:41.759
<v Speaker 2>have Squad Valley Alpine Meadows, and in that meantime, in

0:56:41.840 --> 0:56:44.640
<v Speaker 2>the meantime, part of the investment thesis and the analytics

0:56:44.680 --> 0:56:48.680
<v Speaker 2>and the transaction is to the why included. Yeah, connecting

0:56:48.719 --> 0:56:51.640
<v Speaker 2>these two mountains is something that would be desirable. We

0:56:51.680 --> 0:56:54.400
<v Speaker 2>were definitely not and yours truly was definitely not the

0:56:54.400 --> 0:56:57.440
<v Speaker 2>first person to consider that. Right, There'd been lots and

0:56:57.560 --> 0:57:00.160
<v Speaker 2>lots and lots of stuff that had happened prior a

0:57:00.239 --> 0:57:03.200
<v Speaker 2>lot because mister Cushing and some of the ire he

0:57:03.280 --> 0:57:08.520
<v Speaker 2>had raised with folks have pretty substantial hold sway in

0:57:08.600 --> 0:57:17.080
<v Speaker 2>northern California, including Hewlett's anyway, So yeah, that's uh, there's

0:57:17.080 --> 0:57:18.880
<v Speaker 2>a little bit more to it, but that's the most

0:57:18.920 --> 0:57:19.640
<v Speaker 2>the samets, right.

0:57:19.800 --> 0:57:22.960
<v Speaker 1>Okay, for years, you have this guy who owns a

0:57:23.040 --> 0:57:26.560
<v Speaker 1>piece of land white Wolf, bought a lift, the towers

0:57:26.600 --> 0:57:30.000
<v Speaker 1>are installed. I've been hearing about it for years. That

0:57:30.240 --> 0:57:34.360
<v Speaker 1>is in the area between Alpine and Squaw. Why was

0:57:34.480 --> 0:57:38.520
<v Speaker 1>that not rolled into the expansion connection?

0:57:40.040 --> 0:57:43.320
<v Speaker 2>Troy Caldwell, this guy's name is good pal, good friend,

0:57:44.000 --> 0:57:48.080
<v Speaker 2>and before I closed on, before I closed on buying

0:57:48.120 --> 0:57:50.920
<v Speaker 2>Alpine Meadows, had quite a few meetings with him and

0:57:51.000 --> 0:57:54.200
<v Speaker 2>said Troy just literally over his place with Troy and

0:57:54.240 --> 0:57:57.040
<v Speaker 2>Suzy makes ZUZI makes great bunt cake by the way,

0:57:58.880 --> 0:58:04.400
<v Speaker 2>and we're going to complete this transaction, it's really unlikely

0:58:04.480 --> 0:58:07.720
<v Speaker 2>it doesn't go through. Without going into too much detail,

0:58:08.400 --> 0:58:11.680
<v Speaker 2>and the next conversation is a real serious conversation about

0:58:11.720 --> 0:58:14.560
<v Speaker 2>what's it take to work with you on some means

0:58:14.600 --> 0:58:18.120
<v Speaker 2>by which can connect the two resorts. It turns out

0:58:18.200 --> 0:58:20.040
<v Speaker 2>that how Troy ended up getting the land is a

0:58:20.160 --> 0:58:24.280
<v Speaker 2>fascinating story associated with the I can't remember the name

0:58:24.280 --> 0:58:26.400
<v Speaker 2>of the railway companies used to own most of the

0:58:26.480 --> 0:58:29.920
<v Speaker 2>land in the West, particularly this area. He ended up

0:58:29.920 --> 0:58:34.720
<v Speaker 2>buying it from the CEO of this railway train company.

0:58:36.920 --> 0:58:40.000
<v Speaker 2>I can't remember how much he paid for it, but

0:58:40.080 --> 0:58:42.920
<v Speaker 2>it was a below market deal and it was a

0:58:43.000 --> 0:58:46.720
<v Speaker 2>pretty key piece of land. But he was clearly, and

0:58:46.800 --> 0:58:49.439
<v Speaker 2>I say this very respectfully, not interested in selling. Wasn't

0:58:49.440 --> 0:58:52.000
<v Speaker 2>interested in being part of the transaction. Like he said,

0:58:52.040 --> 0:58:54.600
<v Speaker 2>He'd put up on his own accord a couple of

0:58:54.680 --> 0:58:56.560
<v Speaker 2>lift towers and had intent to make a go of

0:58:56.600 --> 0:58:59.120
<v Speaker 2>it himself. And how could you not freaking respect that

0:58:59.440 --> 0:59:02.720
<v Speaker 2>guys got some key land that he has, he acquired,

0:59:02.760 --> 0:59:04.800
<v Speaker 2>he put his heart and soul into it. He became

0:59:04.840 --> 0:59:08.560
<v Speaker 2>a good friend and so we But we had also initiated, well,

0:59:09.480 --> 0:59:11.160
<v Speaker 2>there's not going to be a transaction here for us

0:59:11.160 --> 0:59:13.080
<v Speaker 2>to acquire this land, which it looked like for us

0:59:13.120 --> 0:59:16.240
<v Speaker 2>to establish long term lease. And we started on that

0:59:16.520 --> 0:59:19.680
<v Speaker 2>in earnest summer of eleven I think was our fall

0:59:19.720 --> 0:59:23.760
<v Speaker 2>of eleven, and it took a little while to design it,

0:59:24.160 --> 0:59:28.920
<v Speaker 2>but it came to pass. I guess December this last winter, right, yeah, December,

0:59:29.040 --> 0:59:31.720
<v Speaker 2>this last winter. I go into that in great detail,

0:59:31.760 --> 0:59:32.640
<v Speaker 2>more detail if you'd like.

0:59:33.920 --> 0:59:35.760
<v Speaker 1>Well, I just don't know. The guy's not going to

0:59:35.800 --> 0:59:39.960
<v Speaker 1>live forever, and now people can't ski on it. I mean,

0:59:40.080 --> 0:59:43.120
<v Speaker 1>isn't it inevitable that it becomes part of Alpine's bois

0:59:43.520 --> 0:59:44.640
<v Speaker 1>now called Palisads.

0:59:44.880 --> 0:59:48.080
<v Speaker 2>You know what's interesting is, you know I left before

0:59:48.400 --> 0:59:52.240
<v Speaker 2>I had negotiated over many years and executed a great

0:59:52.240 --> 0:59:57.800
<v Speaker 2>many contracts, but many of those were probably modified or

0:59:57.840 --> 1:00:00.760
<v Speaker 2>new agreements, and I don't have visibility into those, but

1:00:00.840 --> 1:00:02.960
<v Speaker 2>I can tell you the conversations that Troy and I

1:00:03.160 --> 1:00:06.400
<v Speaker 2>had were respectful. They weren't any kind of we want

1:00:06.440 --> 1:00:08.400
<v Speaker 2>to acquire you and all that kind of stuff. It's

1:00:08.400 --> 1:00:10.880
<v Speaker 2>sent how I roll, who I am. It's not how

1:00:10.920 --> 1:00:13.160
<v Speaker 2>we would do it. It was clearly not how anything

1:00:13.200 --> 1:00:16.320
<v Speaker 2>good was going to happen anyway, So useful on forefronts

1:00:17.840 --> 1:00:21.200
<v Speaker 2>in this case, by those conversations where Troy, you know,

1:00:22.400 --> 1:00:24.720
<v Speaker 2>we're not going to be around forever. We all die,

1:00:25.040 --> 1:00:28.600
<v Speaker 2>taxes and death right, and what do you want to

1:00:28.640 --> 1:00:30.840
<v Speaker 2>have happened to that through this land, like we're just

1:00:32.120 --> 1:00:35.760
<v Speaker 2>you know, you want to put in a foundation trust.

1:00:35.800 --> 1:00:38.760
<v Speaker 2>I'm here to help you, right, And you got to

1:00:38.800 --> 1:00:41.840
<v Speaker 2>keep in mind that my background and my upbringing now

1:00:42.000 --> 1:00:44.760
<v Speaker 2>is playing a role. And I there was turns out

1:00:44.760 --> 1:00:48.160
<v Speaker 2>there was an original essays in Danger Species ACTIUDY that

1:00:48.240 --> 1:00:51.600
<v Speaker 2>indicated that there was a potential impact of soon to

1:00:51.640 --> 1:00:55.880
<v Speaker 2>be listed frog and the habitat was a part of

1:00:55.960 --> 1:00:58.720
<v Speaker 2>this land, and I'd say, well, we're going to design

1:00:58.760 --> 1:01:00.880
<v Speaker 2>around it. My grandfather would reach out of the grave

1:01:00.920 --> 1:01:03.720
<v Speaker 2>and strangle me like a horror movie if I did

1:01:03.720 --> 1:01:08.400
<v Speaker 2>anything to impact any endangered species listed or not. And

1:01:08.520 --> 1:01:11.840
<v Speaker 2>we did that, and that was the tone and nature

1:01:11.840 --> 1:01:15.760
<v Speaker 2>of those conversations. And with Troy and him, you know,

1:01:15.840 --> 1:01:18.520
<v Speaker 2>the answer question is, I don't know. I don't think so.

1:01:18.840 --> 1:01:23.320
<v Speaker 2>If Troy kept his same demeanor, he's established a trust

1:01:23.440 --> 1:01:27.280
<v Speaker 2>or something for that land to advance through. But I

1:01:27.320 --> 1:01:29.520
<v Speaker 2>don't know. Actually, as to this day, I can tell

1:01:29.520 --> 1:01:31.880
<v Speaker 2>you in twenty seventeen, the answer would have been, no,

1:01:32.360 --> 1:01:36.280
<v Speaker 2>it's not at all inevitable based on what Troy's disposition was.

1:01:36.280 --> 1:01:39.720
<v Speaker 1>Okay, so how does it end with you at Palisades? Oh?

1:01:40.080 --> 1:01:43.160
<v Speaker 2>You know, I was in a point where I had

1:01:43.240 --> 1:01:46.880
<v Speaker 2>played a role in helping build Altair Mountain company. We

1:01:47.080 --> 1:01:49.320
<v Speaker 2>now know it was a passholders called the Icon. We

1:01:49.400 --> 1:01:52.600
<v Speaker 2>didn't call Altera at that time. Interestingly enough, that whole

1:01:52.680 --> 1:01:57.560
<v Speaker 2>transaction started with West Edens. And I was on the

1:01:57.600 --> 1:02:00.960
<v Speaker 2>board of USKI team, as was Air Resnik, who was

1:02:01.000 --> 1:02:03.160
<v Speaker 2>the president of KSL Capital Partners. And we were at

1:02:03.160 --> 1:02:05.800
<v Speaker 2>the New York City gala, a huge fundraiser for the

1:02:05.920 --> 1:02:10.480
<v Speaker 2>USK team. And who's also involved this sk USK team

1:02:10.480 --> 1:02:13.360
<v Speaker 2>as Wes Edens on the board of trustees. And he

1:02:13.480 --> 1:02:16.480
<v Speaker 2>walks up to Eric and me and I know him

1:02:16.520 --> 1:02:18.360
<v Speaker 2>quite well and Eric does him pretty well, and he says,

1:02:18.400 --> 1:02:20.720
<v Speaker 2>I'm getting long in the tooth on interest. I think

1:02:20.720 --> 1:02:23.880
<v Speaker 2>it might actually be putting putting a book out on

1:02:23.960 --> 1:02:26.960
<v Speaker 2>that and selling it. Are you guys interested in it?

1:02:27.120 --> 1:02:29.240
<v Speaker 2>To say it cut off, cut off offt guard would

1:02:29.240 --> 1:02:34.920
<v Speaker 2>be an understatement. Hit pause six months earlier Mammoth Barry Sternlock,

1:02:34.960 --> 1:02:37.400
<v Speaker 2>the guy had forty two percent of Mammoth and their

1:02:37.480 --> 1:02:39.960
<v Speaker 2>other holdings, had put a book out on a book

1:02:40.080 --> 1:02:44.400
<v Speaker 2>meaning a confidential information memorandum or kind of book out

1:02:44.440 --> 1:02:48.840
<v Speaker 2>on Mammoth, but had wanted a really high multiple, very

1:02:48.920 --> 1:02:53.720
<v Speaker 2>high number for that asset. Great Mountain, incredible Mountain, incredible holdings.

1:02:53.800 --> 1:02:56.520
<v Speaker 2>What they built was incredible there, but just not worth that.

1:02:57.680 --> 1:03:03.560
<v Speaker 2>So we passed. And then when west Edents walked away,

1:03:04.080 --> 1:03:07.840
<v Speaker 2>Eric and I spent the next two hours talking about, okay, well,

1:03:07.880 --> 1:03:12.640
<v Speaker 2>hold on interest in this current form. Was it no

1:03:12.800 --> 1:03:16.720
<v Speaker 2>longer had Whistler's part of the asset base, but had

1:03:16.720 --> 1:03:19.200
<v Speaker 2>a lot of great skirias And quickly went into the

1:03:19.280 --> 1:03:22.840
<v Speaker 2>easy side of this critical word easy part of this,

1:03:23.680 --> 1:03:26.280
<v Speaker 2>and that is, if you take all these great ski

1:03:26.280 --> 1:03:30.680
<v Speaker 2>areas including Steamboat winter Park and others with interest, and

1:03:30.920 --> 1:03:33.520
<v Speaker 2>do you have Mammoth and these other resorts, and do

1:03:33.520 --> 1:03:35.800
<v Speaker 2>you have squad Valley as this point, squad Valley Ski

1:03:35.880 --> 1:03:40.600
<v Speaker 2>Holdings the parent of squad Valley out by Meadows. Maybe

1:03:40.640 --> 1:03:45.160
<v Speaker 2>there's a different perspective and now there's potentially a critical mass.

1:03:45.160 --> 1:03:47.920
<v Speaker 2>If you can make this all makes sense enough, critical

1:03:48.000 --> 1:03:51.440
<v Speaker 2>mass to actually be competitive with Vail Resorts, a very

1:03:51.480 --> 1:03:56.200
<v Speaker 2>successful company based out of Broomfield, Colorado. And so that's

1:03:56.960 --> 1:03:59.800
<v Speaker 2>I ended up playing a role in the role up strategy,

1:04:00.480 --> 1:04:03.480
<v Speaker 2>pulling that together, some of the negotiations, some of the

1:04:03.560 --> 1:04:07.240
<v Speaker 2>trips to all the assets, the presentations, the warming presentations

1:04:07.800 --> 1:04:11.000
<v Speaker 2>that take place in that classic situation, and yes, skiing

1:04:11.080 --> 1:04:14.800
<v Speaker 2>these mountains, which I had a great day at skiing everywhere,

1:04:14.920 --> 1:04:19.160
<v Speaker 2>these places, including my hometown resort, Steamboat right which, by

1:04:19.200 --> 1:04:22.320
<v Speaker 2>the way, ironically I was in Steamboat in the same

1:04:22.480 --> 1:04:25.400
<v Speaker 2>very room that we had given so many management presentations

1:04:25.440 --> 1:04:29.560
<v Speaker 2>to prospective owners, but now it was being presented Steamboat

1:04:29.640 --> 1:04:31.560
<v Speaker 2>and all the other assets were being presented to me.

1:04:31.600 --> 1:04:34.520
<v Speaker 2>I thought that was ironic. Ended up playing role and

1:04:34.520 --> 1:04:37.320
<v Speaker 2>putting that together. And at that stage, Bob, I just

1:04:37.640 --> 1:04:39.320
<v Speaker 2>was at a point in my career. You know a

1:04:39.360 --> 1:04:41.760
<v Speaker 2>lot of stuff had gone on in Squad Valley, Alpine Meadows.

1:04:42.360 --> 1:04:44.880
<v Speaker 2>I you know, by now had a few years under

1:04:44.920 --> 1:04:47.040
<v Speaker 2>my belt with the ARM and I just had a

1:04:47.080 --> 1:04:52.960
<v Speaker 2>different perspective on life and hit hit the punch out button,

1:04:53.440 --> 1:04:56.200
<v Speaker 2>flew to ever and told those guys, said, hey, we

1:04:56.280 --> 1:04:59.240
<v Speaker 2>want you to come run this company. We're building. I said,

1:04:59.600 --> 1:05:02.760
<v Speaker 2>you know, I love I love these guys at KSL Capital.

1:05:02.880 --> 1:05:06.280
<v Speaker 2>They're so good, they're so solid. But I'm just not

1:05:06.600 --> 1:05:08.439
<v Speaker 2>it's not in the cards. It's not in the cards

1:05:08.480 --> 1:05:12.600
<v Speaker 2>for me. I Yeah, So I punched out. And I

1:05:12.640 --> 1:05:16.000
<v Speaker 2>also had recently been married to a wonderful lady who

1:05:16.240 --> 1:05:18.840
<v Speaker 2>runs a company down here in southern part of Orange County.

1:05:20.200 --> 1:05:23.800
<v Speaker 2>And I just I just had kind of worked hard,

1:05:24.400 --> 1:05:27.760
<v Speaker 2>really hard like many people, like most people do, and

1:05:27.840 --> 1:05:30.680
<v Speaker 2>it was time to find a different path. And so

1:05:30.880 --> 1:05:32.160
<v Speaker 2>I punched out at that time.

1:05:33.320 --> 1:05:36.040
<v Speaker 1>And when you punched out, as you put it, did

1:05:36.120 --> 1:05:38.040
<v Speaker 1>you have enough money to get you to the end

1:05:38.160 --> 1:05:38.480
<v Speaker 1>or did you?

1:05:39.520 --> 1:05:42.320
<v Speaker 2>I did, Bob, And you know, I mean it seriously.

1:05:42.360 --> 1:05:46.560
<v Speaker 2>You don't mean it cliche. I know how to work hard,

1:05:46.560 --> 1:05:48.040
<v Speaker 2>and I think I might have learned that fighting fire.

1:05:48.120 --> 1:05:50.280
<v Speaker 2>But I'm barely the smartest guy in the room, if ever.

1:05:51.280 --> 1:05:54.960
<v Speaker 2>And so good fortune and hard work kind of got

1:05:55.040 --> 1:05:57.320
<v Speaker 2>me to a place where, Yeah, things worked out pretty well.

1:05:57.440 --> 1:06:01.440
<v Speaker 2>The transaction associated with the evaluation of squad Elly Ski

1:06:01.520 --> 1:06:05.200
<v Speaker 2>Holdings and had three tranchas of equity, and things worked

1:06:05.240 --> 1:06:06.800
<v Speaker 2>out pretty really well for me financially.

1:06:13.880 --> 1:06:16.920
<v Speaker 1>Okay, let's talk about the ski industry in general. So

1:06:18.120 --> 1:06:23.320
<v Speaker 1>you know, skiing is a mature sport, and we've had consolidation,

1:06:23.600 --> 1:06:25.880
<v Speaker 1>just like in the live music business and in the

1:06:25.960 --> 1:06:30.600
<v Speaker 1>recorded music business. But in the sixties, that's when skiing

1:06:30.680 --> 1:06:35.440
<v Speaker 1>originally blew up. Skiing was hip. Certainly wealthy people skied,

1:06:35.840 --> 1:06:38.720
<v Speaker 1>but pretty much everybody skied. It was more of a

1:06:38.800 --> 1:06:44.320
<v Speaker 1>blue collar thing. Ultimately, in the late eighties we had

1:06:44.360 --> 1:06:50.040
<v Speaker 1>the transition to high speed lifts, which took really got

1:06:50.160 --> 1:06:52.640
<v Speaker 1>traction in the nineties. Certainly by the twenty first century,

1:06:52.720 --> 1:06:56.920
<v Speaker 1>those lists were so expensive that they raised tickets, and

1:06:57.120 --> 1:07:00.720
<v Speaker 1>therefore conventional wisdom is that it out a lot of

1:07:00.880 --> 1:07:04.240
<v Speaker 1>people who didn't want to spend that money. It was

1:07:04.320 --> 1:07:09.040
<v Speaker 1>seen as more of the wealthy person's sport. Then, of course,

1:07:09.200 --> 1:07:14.960
<v Speaker 1>Veil Associates is purchased by Apollo. Rob Katz comes in

1:07:15.080 --> 1:07:17.360
<v Speaker 1>and runs it after he wants to leave New York

1:07:17.400 --> 1:07:21.640
<v Speaker 1>City in two thousand and one and before the decade

1:07:21.800 --> 1:07:24.720
<v Speaker 1>is out. He comes up with this concept of the

1:07:24.800 --> 1:07:28.520
<v Speaker 1>epic pass. So instead of a season's pass at Veil

1:07:28.760 --> 1:07:33.080
<v Speaker 1>Only or Veil and Beaver Creek costing between two and

1:07:33.280 --> 1:07:38.680
<v Speaker 1>three thousand dollars for at the initial price in the

1:07:38.960 --> 1:07:42.960
<v Speaker 1>two thousand and eight, it was far under one thousand dollars.

1:07:43.640 --> 1:07:47.000
<v Speaker 1>So there are a lot of things going on. The

1:07:47.280 --> 1:07:50.920
<v Speaker 1>plan with American Ski Company with less odd and the

1:07:51.040 --> 1:07:55.640
<v Speaker 1>plan with Interest was a real estate play, whereas Veil

1:07:55.760 --> 1:07:59.600
<v Speaker 1>flipped the script. They said, no, we're going to make

1:07:59.640 --> 1:08:03.240
<v Speaker 1>the money on the lift tickets, the ancillary, the skiing.

1:08:03.480 --> 1:08:05.720
<v Speaker 1>What's on the hill? Of course, most people don't know.

1:08:06.320 --> 1:08:09.120
<v Speaker 1>In most of the town's where Vail is, they own

1:08:09.240 --> 1:08:12.080
<v Speaker 1>a lot of the branded shops see the Patagonia shops,

1:08:12.120 --> 1:08:15.880
<v Speaker 1>see Solomon and they are evolved, involved a little in

1:08:16.000 --> 1:08:19.920
<v Speaker 1>real estate. It's inevitable, but that is not their main focus.

1:08:20.479 --> 1:08:24.080
<v Speaker 1>Now Epic comes along, cleans up and without going through

1:08:24.080 --> 1:08:27.519
<v Speaker 1>the transition going to the ultimate point you make, we

1:08:27.800 --> 1:08:30.320
<v Speaker 1>end up getting the Icon Pass, such as we have

1:08:30.479 --> 1:08:33.240
<v Speaker 1>two major players. Icon Pass is a little bit more

1:08:33.320 --> 1:08:36.800
<v Speaker 1>expensive than the Epic Pass, but not dramatically a couple

1:08:36.960 --> 1:08:39.559
<v Speaker 1>hundred dollars. It's irrelevant if those are the skiers you're

1:08:39.600 --> 1:08:43.639
<v Speaker 1>going to go to what do we know skier days

1:08:44.720 --> 1:08:47.679
<v Speaker 1>And for those who don't know, that's when one person

1:08:47.840 --> 1:08:50.360
<v Speaker 1>goes to a hill one day, that's a skier day.

1:08:50.720 --> 1:08:53.280
<v Speaker 1>So if a person skis sixty days a year. It's

1:08:53.360 --> 1:08:56.719
<v Speaker 1>sixty days. So we're not talking about the quantity of skiers,

1:08:56.760 --> 1:08:58.479
<v Speaker 1>but the number of times people go on the hill.

1:08:59.360 --> 1:09:03.000
<v Speaker 1>It's stable and went up, whereas before it had been

1:09:03.680 --> 1:09:07.040
<v Speaker 1>you know, it had gone down, it matured, et cetera. However,

1:09:08.080 --> 1:09:11.800
<v Speaker 1>there it's an interesting thing because there's backlash. You and

1:09:11.920 --> 1:09:15.439
<v Speaker 1>me both know there's always backlash with any change. If

1:09:15.479 --> 1:09:18.920
<v Speaker 1>you want to change we slow lift, fixed grip lift

1:09:19.000 --> 1:09:21.080
<v Speaker 1>to a high speed lift in a bowl area, you

1:09:21.280 --> 1:09:24.240
<v Speaker 1>always have the traditionally saying don't do that. They want

1:09:24.280 --> 1:09:27.080
<v Speaker 1>to add a new lift in Jackson right now, same

1:09:27.200 --> 1:09:31.560
<v Speaker 1>thing is happening. But the reason I mention all this

1:09:31.880 --> 1:09:35.320
<v Speaker 1>to give a little bit of history. Take a snapshot

1:09:35.400 --> 1:09:40.479
<v Speaker 1>of the industry. Now, okay, what is it mature? Can

1:09:40.560 --> 1:09:43.160
<v Speaker 1>we have more excuse? I also wanted to talk one

1:09:43.240 --> 1:09:47.719
<v Speaker 1>step further about the experience. Certainly on the Epic Pass,

1:09:47.760 --> 1:09:50.920
<v Speaker 1>there are very few restrictions. There are a few more

1:09:51.120 --> 1:09:54.559
<v Speaker 1>on the Icon Pass. This has resulted in a lot

1:09:54.640 --> 1:09:58.840
<v Speaker 1>of publicity about crowding. A lot of it is not true.

1:09:58.960 --> 1:10:01.680
<v Speaker 1>They'll show a picture a powdered day, people lining up

1:10:01.760 --> 1:10:04.920
<v Speaker 1>where the lift opens. They'll show people when not that

1:10:05.160 --> 1:10:08.120
<v Speaker 1>much of the ski area is open. It is nowhere

1:10:08.160 --> 1:10:11.160
<v Speaker 1>near as crowded as the publicity, but this is seen

1:10:11.280 --> 1:10:14.439
<v Speaker 1>as a factor. In addition, because of the law on

1:10:14.520 --> 1:10:18.320
<v Speaker 1>the economics, you essentially can't build a new ski area.

1:10:19.080 --> 1:10:22.240
<v Speaker 1>So what's gonna happen? Where are we and where we going?

1:10:24.160 --> 1:10:26.639
<v Speaker 2>So you know, as an attorney, you just asked about

1:10:26.680 --> 1:10:30.519
<v Speaker 2>a sixteenfold question, right, the sixteen elements here question me.

1:10:31.640 --> 1:10:35.280
<v Speaker 2>I appreciate everything you just said. I'm serious, by the way,

1:10:35.479 --> 1:10:38.040
<v Speaker 2>and I'll address every point that I possibly can. There's

1:10:38.120 --> 1:10:40.720
<v Speaker 2>one key element you missed on the roll up on that,

1:10:41.520 --> 1:10:44.920
<v Speaker 2>and that is the cheap pass. The buddy pass thing

1:10:45.040 --> 1:10:47.479
<v Speaker 2>came about. I know for a fact because I was.

1:10:47.479 --> 1:10:49.599
<v Speaker 1>There right in the front range of Colorado.

1:10:50.160 --> 1:10:52.839
<v Speaker 2>It was Gary Defranz running when a park. He couldn't

1:10:52.920 --> 1:10:56.479
<v Speaker 2>make payroll, and he came up with this idea to

1:10:56.560 --> 1:10:59.680
<v Speaker 2>try and get cash in the door quick. And that

1:10:59.920 --> 1:11:01.920
<v Speaker 2>was for every four people that I had passed, you

1:11:02.040 --> 1:11:03.920
<v Speaker 2>get it for super cheap. And at that time it

1:11:04.000 --> 1:11:07.040
<v Speaker 2>was Adam Aaron who came in from United Airlines, and

1:11:07.280 --> 1:11:11.320
<v Speaker 2>Adam was running bail. Adam and I would contend, I

1:11:11.439 --> 1:11:15.120
<v Speaker 2>know this to be true, would contend I would contend

1:11:15.200 --> 1:11:17.759
<v Speaker 2>that his background of the United and the airline business

1:11:17.920 --> 1:11:20.600
<v Speaker 2>was a little bit more commodity based pricing, where you

1:11:20.680 --> 1:11:22.560
<v Speaker 2>lose share if you don't match on price. It is

1:11:22.600 --> 1:11:25.439
<v Speaker 2>a simplistic way to put it, commodity being something that's

1:11:25.479 --> 1:11:30.240
<v Speaker 2>only different siated by price. He ends up on Friday

1:11:30.240 --> 1:11:33.639
<v Speaker 2>afternoon of Gary Defranz announcing this by Saturday afternoon during

1:11:33.640 --> 1:11:37.360
<v Speaker 2>the Sneograb sale, which is a labor day sale in Denver, matching,

1:11:37.760 --> 1:11:41.280
<v Speaker 2>and next thing, you know, the cheap passes born. I

1:11:41.360 --> 1:11:44.840
<v Speaker 2>can't remember how many years later, maybe five, five, six,

1:11:45.000 --> 1:11:51.280
<v Speaker 2>seven years later, after Adam Aaron leaves and shortly thereafter

1:11:51.840 --> 1:11:55.679
<v Speaker 2>robcast leaves the board as a representative of the group

1:11:55.760 --> 1:11:58.920
<v Speaker 2>you mentioned. I think they had large component of bail

1:11:58.920 --> 1:12:02.439
<v Speaker 2>associations at that time. This is post bankruptcy Right Veils

1:12:02.479 --> 1:12:06.680
<v Speaker 2>bankrupt in ninety two ninety three under Jillette because cross collateralization,

1:12:06.800 --> 1:12:11.400
<v Speaker 2>all that jazz. But interestingly enough, the KSL guys picked

1:12:11.400 --> 1:12:13.760
<v Speaker 2>it up, fixed it up, and took it public. But

1:12:14.000 --> 1:12:17.479
<v Speaker 2>now it's Rob Cats coming in and he takes something

1:12:17.520 --> 1:12:21.160
<v Speaker 2>that was the cheap pass. Thing happened completely by accident.

1:12:21.840 --> 1:12:25.320
<v Speaker 2>It was a knee jerk like you read about. I'm

1:12:25.400 --> 1:12:27.720
<v Speaker 2>not kidding you. It's kind of the I know this

1:12:27.800 --> 1:12:30.840
<v Speaker 2>to be true because I was there so expand upon

1:12:30.920 --> 1:12:34.080
<v Speaker 2>that time happens. Well, it was Garied French needed to

1:12:34.120 --> 1:12:36.639
<v Speaker 2>make payroll for winter Park running. Oh you mean the original, Yeah,

1:12:36.640 --> 1:12:36.960
<v Speaker 2>the original.

1:12:37.080 --> 1:12:37.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

1:12:37.320 --> 1:12:41.000
<v Speaker 2>But then Rob Cats came along said there's something more here,

1:12:41.439 --> 1:12:44.120
<v Speaker 2>and he took what was a complete aircraft carrier landing

1:12:44.520 --> 1:12:48.080
<v Speaker 2>type knee jerk and made it into something a great

1:12:48.080 --> 1:12:50.680
<v Speaker 2>deal more sophisticated, branded it called the Epic Pass, and

1:12:51.080 --> 1:12:58.040
<v Speaker 2>here we are. Your point about business models is particularly relevant.

1:12:59.800 --> 1:13:04.480
<v Speaker 2>I had my career responsibility for real estate, real estate development, brokerages,

1:13:04.760 --> 1:13:09.800
<v Speaker 2>scary operations, you know, you name it. Pretty pretty understanding

1:13:10.040 --> 1:13:11.880
<v Speaker 2>of that space. By the way, there's a pretty good

1:13:11.920 --> 1:13:16.120
<v Speaker 2>analog with the music industry. In addition to these things

1:13:16.160 --> 1:13:21.240
<v Speaker 2>that happened, there's also the maturation exactly just like in

1:13:21.320 --> 1:13:25.160
<v Speaker 2>the music business, right when BGP gets acquired by I

1:13:25.240 --> 1:13:26.360
<v Speaker 2>can't remember what group.

1:13:26.200 --> 1:13:31.560
<v Speaker 1>And THENXX turns into absolutely and so there was that.

1:13:31.760 --> 1:13:34.559
<v Speaker 2>There was also the maturation and the people running the businesses.

1:13:34.600 --> 1:13:36.479
<v Speaker 2>I'm not saying for better or worse, it was just

1:13:36.840 --> 1:13:40.200
<v Speaker 2>more mature, more people. You know, like mentioned in that email,

1:13:40.479 --> 1:13:43.439
<v Speaker 2>Bill and Peter Barsodi, I learned from them from BGP.

1:13:43.640 --> 1:13:46.479
<v Speaker 2>This is after Bill died concert with them, and I

1:13:46.600 --> 1:13:49.120
<v Speaker 2>know the business a little bit. And you know, those

1:13:49.160 --> 1:13:52.840
<v Speaker 2>guys were Gen one at BGP and the Gen two,

1:13:52.960 --> 1:13:55.120
<v Speaker 2>three four, And I don't know the companies like you do.

1:13:55.200 --> 1:13:57.800
<v Speaker 2>You worked for them, with them and helped lead them

1:13:58.240 --> 1:14:00.160
<v Speaker 2>in this case, but you saw that first and in

1:14:00.200 --> 1:14:02.719
<v Speaker 2>this case I saw firsthand the maturation of those working

1:14:02.760 --> 1:14:05.040
<v Speaker 2>inside the key business. So it was a little bit

1:14:05.040 --> 1:14:07.559
<v Speaker 2>more than you mentioned. But the point being is relative

1:14:07.640 --> 1:14:12.400
<v Speaker 2>to real estate and what drives businesses, it's the going

1:14:12.439 --> 1:14:15.800
<v Speaker 2>concerned principle they teach you in first year business school.

1:14:16.000 --> 1:14:19.640
<v Speaker 2>Is really simple. You can't build the business on a

1:14:19.720 --> 1:14:23.719
<v Speaker 2>long term basis just on real estate. It will fail

1:14:23.760 --> 1:14:25.960
<v Speaker 2>because you're number one, run out of real estate. Number two.

1:14:26.479 --> 1:14:29.519
<v Speaker 2>The evolution or the undulations associated with that. And there

1:14:29.560 --> 1:14:31.840
<v Speaker 2>were those of us who is an old friend of mine,

1:14:31.960 --> 1:14:35.240
<v Speaker 2>a boss of mine who went to Middlebury's also Christyman,

1:14:35.280 --> 1:14:37.519
<v Speaker 2>said stick to our knitting. We're going to do this.

1:14:37.680 --> 1:14:39.800
<v Speaker 2>We can do this other real estate element. But the

1:14:39.920 --> 1:14:42.640
<v Speaker 2>real estate, for instance in Steamboat was meant to be

1:14:43.000 --> 1:14:44.840
<v Speaker 2>was a means to an end and see what we

1:14:44.920 --> 1:14:48.800
<v Speaker 2>had done tons of studies and research understand that we

1:14:49.000 --> 1:14:52.920
<v Speaker 2>knew there's two three key factors to our success. Number

1:14:52.960 --> 1:14:57.000
<v Speaker 2>one airline seats got to have these NonStop heats and

1:14:57.040 --> 1:15:00.479
<v Speaker 2>from lax Smo, Dallas, Fort Worth all accounts of the

1:15:00.560 --> 1:15:02.840
<v Speaker 2>other one is the proper running of the ski area,

1:15:02.920 --> 1:15:05.000
<v Speaker 2>pricing the name. But the third one is available nightly

1:15:05.080 --> 1:15:07.760
<v Speaker 2>rental pillows and we had a dearth of those. So

1:15:07.880 --> 1:15:10.559
<v Speaker 2>we ended up getting into call it real estate only

1:15:10.680 --> 1:15:12.719
<v Speaker 2>because it was a means to an end, not because

1:15:13.160 --> 1:15:16.160
<v Speaker 2>it was a long term effort. There there were companies

1:15:16.439 --> 1:15:20.479
<v Speaker 2>like Interest who were built largely upon that and they

1:15:21.479 --> 1:15:26.120
<v Speaker 2>weren't successful in the long run. You mentioned another one

1:15:26.400 --> 1:15:31.160
<v Speaker 2>American Skiing, a skiing company, they had their grand summit size.

1:15:31.479 --> 1:15:33.240
<v Speaker 2>We ended up doing the steamboat. Grand was over hotel

1:15:33.280 --> 1:15:37.120
<v Speaker 2>and conference center. Who doggie, you're stumbling back into some

1:15:37.240 --> 1:15:40.520
<v Speaker 2>memories here, man, and you know your stuff. Not surprisingly,

1:15:40.640 --> 1:15:44.080
<v Speaker 2>but there was a darkness and steamboat when less was there.

1:15:44.280 --> 1:15:45.760
<v Speaker 2>There's bumper stickers and you name it.

1:15:46.120 --> 1:15:48.920
<v Speaker 1>Just stop for one second. Yeah, how long are those

1:15:49.000 --> 1:15:52.400
<v Speaker 1>grand some of hotels going to last? Depends on which

1:15:52.479 --> 1:15:55.360
<v Speaker 1>one I've heard some of them are quite flimsy.

1:15:56.360 --> 1:15:58.840
<v Speaker 2>It'd be fair to say that the ones and I

1:15:58.920 --> 1:16:01.240
<v Speaker 2>get friends still running these resorts are going to fly

1:16:01.360 --> 1:16:04.680
<v Speaker 2>out to Montana and beat me up or something that

1:16:04.720 --> 1:16:08.240
<v Speaker 2>I don't know. The ones back east are pretty well veed,

1:16:08.560 --> 1:16:12.439
<v Speaker 2>value engineered steamboat grant. We spent a lot of effort

1:16:12.800 --> 1:16:18.400
<v Speaker 2>in securing viable, solid set up. Now, the design, physical

1:16:18.439 --> 1:16:20.639
<v Speaker 2>plant design could have been better, but that one's solid.

1:16:21.400 --> 1:16:25.479
<v Speaker 2>The canyons grand pretty darn good. So it depends on

1:16:25.560 --> 1:16:28.200
<v Speaker 2>which one. It sounds to me like you've stayed in

1:16:28.280 --> 1:16:28.879
<v Speaker 2>some of the ways.

1:16:29.400 --> 1:16:31.559
<v Speaker 1>All I've read. I have some people that have ownership interests.

1:16:31.560 --> 1:16:34.719
<v Speaker 1>It's a fascinating thing. Just to stop an American skiing

1:16:34.800 --> 1:16:37.080
<v Speaker 1>company less Odd has been trying to get back into

1:16:37.120 --> 1:16:41.960
<v Speaker 1>the balsips for years now. Did it fail because of

1:16:42.080 --> 1:16:48.519
<v Speaker 1>the macroeconomic situation in America or was it inherently flawed plan?

1:16:48.880 --> 1:16:51.360
<v Speaker 1>Was it too much spending too soon? Was it to

1:16:51.439 --> 1:16:53.160
<v Speaker 1>focus on real estate or all of that.

1:16:53.600 --> 1:16:55.880
<v Speaker 2>It was even more simple than that, Bob. I can

1:16:55.960 --> 1:16:59.719
<v Speaker 2>tell you from the inside out, straight up, straightforward. There's

1:16:59.720 --> 1:17:06.280
<v Speaker 2>an experienced CFO who ended up cross collateralizing assets and

1:17:06.840 --> 1:17:09.719
<v Speaker 2>put the company in a very very very difficult position

1:17:10.040 --> 1:17:15.160
<v Speaker 2>when it came to structuring acquisition or securing companies ski

1:17:15.200 --> 1:17:19.200
<v Speaker 2>areas and land with capital that was secured through cross

1:17:19.640 --> 1:17:23.040
<v Speaker 2>collateralized loans, which can feel good for a couple three days,

1:17:24.120 --> 1:17:26.400
<v Speaker 2>but as you know from your business experience, we'll catch

1:17:26.479 --> 1:17:30.000
<v Speaker 2>up to your ass and those Our ass was caught

1:17:30.080 --> 1:17:33.240
<v Speaker 2>up and it was covenants blown through and it was bad.

1:17:33.720 --> 1:17:37.240
<v Speaker 2>It was really bad. So it was actually a number

1:17:37.320 --> 1:17:39.800
<v Speaker 2>of factors. But I would I could make a very

1:17:40.120 --> 1:17:45.360
<v Speaker 2>very strong salient. I sometimes I'm asked to speak, can

1:17:45.439 --> 1:17:47.840
<v Speaker 2>do guest lecturing at business schools. It's really fun. I

1:17:48.000 --> 1:17:50.080
<v Speaker 2>enjoy the heck out of that. But in this case,

1:17:50.479 --> 1:17:52.400
<v Speaker 2>you can look at these three, four or five layers

1:17:52.400 --> 1:17:55.760
<v Speaker 2>a little bit like my skyde accidents. Usually there's this

1:17:56.080 --> 1:17:59.840
<v Speaker 2>one prevailing thing. In this case, one prevailing thing is

1:18:00.000 --> 1:18:03.439
<v Speaker 2>I had an inexperienced CFO who and uh willingly or

1:18:03.600 --> 1:18:07.000
<v Speaker 2>knowingly or unknowingly and unwillingly uh less signed off on this.

1:18:07.120 --> 1:18:11.200
<v Speaker 2>But it was cross colateralized loans debt that brought that

1:18:11.320 --> 1:18:14.520
<v Speaker 2>company to its heels, to its excuse me, Okay.

1:18:14.720 --> 1:18:19.599
<v Speaker 1>So today, where is the industry that is their growth?

1:18:20.320 --> 1:18:23.880
<v Speaker 1>Is there any consolidation I mean, yeah, give me your take.

1:18:24.000 --> 1:18:28.639
<v Speaker 2>Sure. So inside looking out, I hear the phrase. I've

1:18:28.640 --> 1:18:30.680
<v Speaker 2>heard the phrase during and after my career and the

1:18:30.840 --> 1:18:33.720
<v Speaker 2>running ski resorts of consolidation, and honestly, it was there

1:18:33.800 --> 1:18:38.880
<v Speaker 2>since eighty six and it's ebbed and flowed, and the

1:18:39.000 --> 1:18:41.479
<v Speaker 2>trend towards consolidation. I'm like, well, which you know, this

1:18:41.640 --> 1:18:43.920
<v Speaker 2>is about the sixth one I've seen. You can call

1:18:43.960 --> 1:18:48.120
<v Speaker 2>it a trend. And truthfully, it's just like the music industry,

1:18:48.360 --> 1:18:50.640
<v Speaker 2>right kind of. You can say the music industry just

1:18:50.720 --> 1:18:54.040
<v Speaker 2>like you say the ski industry. But inside there, your

1:18:54.240 --> 1:18:57.479
<v Speaker 2>view of this is very unique and informed. There's pockets

1:18:57.520 --> 1:19:00.360
<v Speaker 2>of those who succeed and pockets of those who do

1:19:00.520 --> 1:19:03.240
<v Speaker 2>okay and those who don't. And it has to do

1:19:03.400 --> 1:19:07.040
<v Speaker 2>with their business acumen, their business model. They're thinking, you know,

1:19:07.120 --> 1:19:09.080
<v Speaker 2>there's so many things to it. Ski industry is the

1:19:09.120 --> 1:19:12.880
<v Speaker 2>same way highlight that they're those who have the shit

1:19:12.920 --> 1:19:17.280
<v Speaker 2>together and those who don't, and those who rely on

1:19:17.920 --> 1:19:21.280
<v Speaker 2>phrases like if you have snow it, you do well,

1:19:21.320 --> 1:19:24.799
<v Speaker 2>if you don't, you don't. That's that's a false premise,

1:19:25.000 --> 1:19:28.200
<v Speaker 2>entirely false premise. Or if we spend a whole bunch

1:19:28.200 --> 1:19:30.200
<v Speaker 2>of money on share lips big metals. Spending money on

1:19:30.280 --> 1:19:32.880
<v Speaker 2>big metals easy. The hard part is having it makes

1:19:32.960 --> 1:19:36.560
<v Speaker 2>sense from a finite capital outlay perspective. My answer to

1:19:36.560 --> 1:19:41.320
<v Speaker 2>your question is the industry has shed the intensity of

1:19:41.439 --> 1:19:45.439
<v Speaker 2>focus on real estate being such a key part of

1:19:46.000 --> 1:19:49.680
<v Speaker 2>seeing to the p and l their profitability. Thankfully, those

1:19:49.720 --> 1:19:53.040
<v Speaker 2>who figured that out didn't take long. There's a lot

1:19:53.080 --> 1:19:56.800
<v Speaker 2>of roadkill on that one in the past twenty years.

1:19:57.880 --> 1:20:00.479
<v Speaker 2>And those who stuck to the netting, they are doing things,

1:20:00.520 --> 1:20:05.160
<v Speaker 2>good things, whether they be Wachusetts Mountain, I think in Massachusetts, right, yeah,

1:20:05.720 --> 1:20:07.240
<v Speaker 2>all the way up to the big guys. There's some

1:20:07.479 --> 1:20:10.360
<v Speaker 2>smart people that still have passion for the sport that

1:20:10.439 --> 1:20:12.200
<v Speaker 2>are good business people running these mountains.

1:20:12.280 --> 1:20:15.639
<v Speaker 1>So well, let's just look at the two major players.

1:20:15.760 --> 1:20:19.400
<v Speaker 1>There are some even Snowbrains. Today is listing the largest

1:20:19.400 --> 1:20:22.200
<v Speaker 1>ski areas that are not aligned. You have White Water,

1:20:22.400 --> 1:20:24.320
<v Speaker 1>you have a few in Canada, but most of these

1:20:24.360 --> 1:20:28.080
<v Speaker 1>companies are aligned with one of the two major operations.

1:20:28.560 --> 1:20:32.200
<v Speaker 1>So every year, at this time of year, Veil announces

1:20:32.280 --> 1:20:36.439
<v Speaker 1>its capital projects. So at Veil Mountain, literally every lift

1:20:36.560 --> 1:20:39.280
<v Speaker 1>is a high speed lift other than a couple of

1:20:39.360 --> 1:20:43.640
<v Speaker 1>beginner lifts. Really the infrastructures improved this year at Steamboat

1:20:44.080 --> 1:20:49.840
<v Speaker 1>mazing upgrades in infrastructure. So what we know is the

1:20:50.000 --> 1:20:52.639
<v Speaker 1>business model is to get the capital in the spring,

1:20:52.800 --> 1:20:56.479
<v Speaker 1>so you're not weather reliant. Okay. People want people to

1:20:56.560 --> 1:20:59.680
<v Speaker 1>buy the pass, which breaks even usually between five and

1:20:59.720 --> 1:21:02.840
<v Speaker 1>six visits. You have that money. Whether they go or not,

1:21:03.600 --> 1:21:08.639
<v Speaker 1>you're at least set. So is that base of pass

1:21:08.760 --> 1:21:13.080
<v Speaker 1>buyers And of course Epic two years ago actually lower

1:21:13.280 --> 1:21:14.719
<v Speaker 1>the price, right, Okay?

1:21:15.600 --> 1:21:17.240
<v Speaker 2>Is there a ceiling on that?

1:21:17.880 --> 1:21:20.040
<v Speaker 1>You know, if you want to talk surfing, you got

1:21:20.160 --> 1:21:24.719
<v Speaker 1>to be near waves, right, Okay, there's an inherently limited market.

1:21:25.520 --> 1:21:28.880
<v Speaker 1>And in addition with surfing, there's in the water on

1:21:29.160 --> 1:21:31.680
<v Speaker 1>the beach where's a lot of these skiaras you can

1:21:31.800 --> 1:21:34.880
<v Speaker 1>actually entertain yourself if you never even go on the hill.

1:21:35.360 --> 1:21:38.000
<v Speaker 1>And as a result of the high speed lifts, almost

1:21:38.120 --> 1:21:42.479
<v Speaker 1>nobody skis from bell to bell every day few so

1:21:43.560 --> 1:21:47.559
<v Speaker 1>you have these resort areas. What is the ceiling? Knowing

1:21:47.640 --> 1:21:50.200
<v Speaker 1>that we I mean, it appears we can't build any

1:21:50.240 --> 1:21:53.240
<v Speaker 1>more infrastructure in terms of new mountains, what's going to

1:21:53.320 --> 1:21:53.720
<v Speaker 1>happen here?

1:21:53.760 --> 1:21:57.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Bob, I'm not trying to pivot or do the

1:21:57.400 --> 1:22:03.479
<v Speaker 2>Sunday Morning, Meet the Press, politician pivot. I'm not I

1:22:03.560 --> 1:22:07.840
<v Speaker 2>stepped off that business world, that world about five years ago.

1:22:09.200 --> 1:22:11.560
<v Speaker 2>I don't have a good contemporary answer for you. But

1:22:12.040 --> 1:22:15.440
<v Speaker 2>let me, just as President Obama said, I loved his interstitials,

1:22:15.760 --> 1:22:18.600
<v Speaker 2>let me say this about that. In this case, I

1:22:18.600 --> 1:22:23.960
<v Speaker 2>would say, I completely understand the center point of your

1:22:24.040 --> 1:22:28.519
<v Speaker 2>question and all of the iterations. I get it. That

1:22:28.840 --> 1:22:30.519
<v Speaker 2>could be said that that's one of the reasons I

1:22:30.640 --> 1:22:34.200
<v Speaker 2>wanted to step off, and I'd be a hypocrite to

1:22:34.280 --> 1:22:39.479
<v Speaker 2>not point out my contradiction there. The contradiction self evident.

1:22:39.720 --> 1:22:41.400
<v Speaker 2>The very thing that I helped build is a very

1:22:41.439 --> 1:22:44.920
<v Speaker 2>thing you're talking about, right, But at the same time

1:22:45.400 --> 1:22:48.120
<v Speaker 2>I realized it wasn't. I had built a good career,

1:22:48.400 --> 1:22:51.640
<v Speaker 2>I had done well. I was pleased and proud of

1:22:51.720 --> 1:22:53.639
<v Speaker 2>some of the things I'd done look back and wish

1:22:53.800 --> 1:22:57.200
<v Speaker 2>but this case, I was like, Okay, I'm not too

1:22:57.240 --> 1:22:59.680
<v Speaker 2>sure I want to be a part of this particular

1:23:00.000 --> 1:23:02.680
<v Speaker 2>circumstances going forward. And that was great. That was a

1:23:02.720 --> 1:23:06.479
<v Speaker 2>personal But the answer question from a strategicy perspective, is

1:23:06.560 --> 1:23:10.040
<v Speaker 2>the last time I use that reference. Is it the

1:23:11.360 --> 1:23:14.479
<v Speaker 2>goal to set up a competitor for Vail we felt

1:23:14.640 --> 1:23:17.840
<v Speaker 2>was a good one, and the onw O Resorts by

1:23:18.120 --> 1:23:20.960
<v Speaker 2>Altara Mountain Company, and then there's the on O Resorts,

1:23:21.160 --> 1:23:23.439
<v Speaker 2>and then there's affiliates, right, which are part of it.

1:23:23.520 --> 1:23:26.080
<v Speaker 2>I think it's like forty eight or something now something

1:23:26.120 --> 1:23:28.519
<v Speaker 2>like that. We built those with Mountain Collective Partners and more.

1:23:29.760 --> 1:23:32.160
<v Speaker 2>Is extremely competitive and it's a competitive environment. And by

1:23:32.200 --> 1:23:34.200
<v Speaker 2>the way, the research we did with McKenzie and others,

1:23:34.479 --> 1:23:36.439
<v Speaker 2>we came out of the gates price higher than the

1:23:36.479 --> 1:23:39.840
<v Speaker 2>Epic Pass very much on purpose, very much on purpose.

1:23:40.840 --> 1:23:44.280
<v Speaker 2>And I'm thrilled to see the Foliot on purpose based

1:23:44.320 --> 1:23:47.120
<v Speaker 2>on the numbers, based on the numbers, based on the views,

1:23:47.760 --> 1:23:51.519
<v Speaker 2>and you know, the fundamental premises with Alterra and the

1:23:51.800 --> 1:23:55.040
<v Speaker 2>icon it was, I would think it remains this is

1:23:55.120 --> 1:23:57.960
<v Speaker 2>not a commodity product. We don't compete based on price.

1:23:58.040 --> 1:24:01.720
<v Speaker 2>We compete based on price and many other things in

1:24:01.840 --> 1:24:05.519
<v Speaker 2>some cases are precursors and other cases or epilogues to

1:24:05.600 --> 1:24:10.200
<v Speaker 2>that whole discussion and the consumer's mind. And it's not complex,

1:24:10.280 --> 1:24:13.360
<v Speaker 2>but it's nuanced. I could tell you this caliber since

1:24:13.400 --> 1:24:17.439
<v Speaker 2>we're here in California. California is the battleground because you

1:24:17.520 --> 1:24:20.080
<v Speaker 2>have in the market for the market high volume high

1:24:20.200 --> 1:24:24.600
<v Speaker 2>visitation with Squad Valley, Alpine Meadows and Mammoth in the

1:24:25.160 --> 1:24:27.800
<v Speaker 2>al Terra resorts. They also have vail resorts with north Star,

1:24:27.960 --> 1:24:32.120
<v Speaker 2>Heavenly and the like. But California was it, and it's

1:24:32.120 --> 1:24:35.160
<v Speaker 2>also a market that travels to Ski, to Utah, to Wyoming,

1:24:35.240 --> 1:24:37.880
<v Speaker 2>to Montana, Colorado of course, so it is a big

1:24:38.000 --> 1:24:41.600
<v Speaker 2>deal and it was the battleground as part of the

1:24:41.720 --> 1:24:44.439
<v Speaker 2>roll ups. The initial quantitative analytics we did on this

1:24:45.479 --> 1:24:48.120
<v Speaker 2>stand ups pointing is I don't know exactly where it goes.

1:24:48.200 --> 1:24:51.120
<v Speaker 2>I do know this that scheme has become a little

1:24:51.120 --> 1:24:53.880
<v Speaker 2>bit more affordable, and that's the good news. The other

1:24:53.960 --> 1:24:56.800
<v Speaker 2>news is it's become more affordable and that's brought a

1:24:56.880 --> 1:25:00.400
<v Speaker 2>lot more people to the sport and trying to find

1:25:00.439 --> 1:25:04.320
<v Speaker 2>that equilibrium, that balance, I mean, it's it's with a

1:25:04.479 --> 1:25:07.240
<v Speaker 2>great deal of pain and oh type kind of like

1:25:07.400 --> 1:25:10.439
<v Speaker 2>geez seeing the lines on those high demand days. The

1:25:10.520 --> 1:25:12.760
<v Speaker 2>compaction that we talk about, you know, to our lines

1:25:12.800 --> 1:25:15.680
<v Speaker 2>at this resort and this resort, everybody gets them. And

1:25:15.800 --> 1:25:18.840
<v Speaker 2>it doesn't matter how many gondolas high speed h you

1:25:18.920 --> 1:25:21.360
<v Speaker 2>put out of a base. When you have twelve thousand

1:25:21.360 --> 1:25:24.120
<v Speaker 2>people that want to go skiing in between nine am

1:25:24.160 --> 1:25:26.320
<v Speaker 2>and nine thirty am. There's not a lift system on

1:25:26.400 --> 1:25:29.680
<v Speaker 2>the planet that can move them out because squad we had,

1:25:30.439 --> 1:25:33.000
<v Speaker 2>even with the base base which is at fourteen hundred hours,

1:25:33.120 --> 1:25:36.080
<v Speaker 2>so twenty fourth there's I think out of base lift

1:25:36.160 --> 1:25:40.559
<v Speaker 2>capacity might be six thousand something like that skiers per hour,

1:25:41.080 --> 1:25:42.840
<v Speaker 2>and then you put nine thousand people that want to

1:25:42.880 --> 1:25:47.160
<v Speaker 2>get up, mostly on KT understandably because fricking soul center

1:25:47.200 --> 1:25:51.680
<v Speaker 2>of skiing universe right there, the incredible hill can't be done,

1:25:51.800 --> 1:25:57.640
<v Speaker 2>so that compaction issue has been augmented by passes. I

1:25:57.720 --> 1:25:59.560
<v Speaker 2>don't know where it goes from here. I don't have

1:25:59.720 --> 1:26:02.600
<v Speaker 2>a crystal ball on that, but I do understand that

1:26:03.800 --> 1:26:07.040
<v Speaker 2>I can say the obvious restate blinding clash the obvious

1:26:07.080 --> 1:26:09.679
<v Speaker 2>it has become more affordable good news. The other news

1:26:10.040 --> 1:26:12.519
<v Speaker 2>is it's become more affordable and it's invited more people

1:26:12.560 --> 1:26:15.280
<v Speaker 2>to the sport. I'm not trying to avoid your question.

1:26:15.439 --> 1:26:16.880
<v Speaker 1>No, no, I think you got it. But the reason

1:26:16.920 --> 1:26:19.280
<v Speaker 1>we have to lay that groundwork is you are on

1:26:19.439 --> 1:26:23.479
<v Speaker 1>the hard goods side of the equation now with peak skis,

1:26:23.920 --> 1:26:26.040
<v Speaker 1>So what do we know about the hard goods. And

1:26:26.280 --> 1:26:31.519
<v Speaker 1>according to your documentation, there's nine hundred thousand pairs of

1:26:31.600 --> 1:26:35.560
<v Speaker 1>skis sold in a year worldwide. What do we know?

1:26:35.840 --> 1:26:40.200
<v Speaker 1>The number has come down. So if we look historically,

1:26:40.840 --> 1:26:44.320
<v Speaker 1>skis were not that well built. Skis are much better

1:26:44.439 --> 1:26:46.759
<v Speaker 1>built than they used to. If you were a regular skier,

1:26:47.720 --> 1:26:50.280
<v Speaker 1>you know you would be. We're best friends with the

1:26:50.320 --> 1:26:54.400
<v Speaker 1>warranty department and I can talk from experience. Whereas the skis,

1:26:54.439 --> 1:26:57.839
<v Speaker 1>the skis would just fall apart, never mind the residents,

1:26:57.880 --> 1:27:07.720
<v Speaker 1>et cetera. Secondly, because of airline prices for baggage, there's

1:27:07.800 --> 1:27:10.880
<v Speaker 1>a whole new paradigm which always existed. There was always

1:27:10.920 --> 1:27:15.240
<v Speaker 1>a rental business. Then we went into the high end

1:27:15.400 --> 1:27:18.960
<v Speaker 1>rental business and now there are plenty of people who

1:27:19.200 --> 1:27:23.960
<v Speaker 1>travel without skis. There's a big issue of well, how

1:27:24.120 --> 1:27:27.560
<v Speaker 1>many skis can be sold in the market, and we

1:27:27.760 --> 1:27:31.120
<v Speaker 1>look at these individual companies. K two starts out as

1:27:31.160 --> 1:27:36.240
<v Speaker 1>a private company in Vashon Island, Washington. The two Kirchen

1:27:36.280 --> 1:27:37.960
<v Speaker 1>brothers owner for a long time. Then it goes to

1:27:38.040 --> 1:27:41.800
<v Speaker 1>a couple of owners and nobody wanted it. Okay, it

1:27:41.960 --> 1:27:46.880
<v Speaker 1>was successful. We have Rosignol sold to Quicksilver, a disaster

1:27:47.520 --> 1:27:52.760
<v Speaker 1>repurchased by the original company. We have Solomon been through

1:27:52.760 --> 1:27:55.720
<v Speaker 1>a few changes, goes to a mayor. We have a

1:27:55.800 --> 1:27:59.320
<v Speaker 1>lot of companies that go out of business, Knisol, etc.

1:28:00.080 --> 1:28:04.720
<v Speaker 1>On and on. Then we have the Nordica Group who

1:28:04.840 --> 1:28:08.200
<v Speaker 1>builds a factory. Everyone says this is the stupidest thing

1:28:08.280 --> 1:28:12.840
<v Speaker 1>of all time. And now Blizard is a dominant ski brand.

1:28:13.280 --> 1:28:16.400
<v Speaker 1>Having said all of that, and you were talking about

1:28:16.400 --> 1:28:19.160
<v Speaker 1>the value of Squad Valley, which is a large physical asset,

1:28:19.880 --> 1:28:22.599
<v Speaker 1>there's not that many zeros. There's not that much money

1:28:22.840 --> 1:28:26.000
<v Speaker 1>in the scheme. So if you go back decades, never

1:28:26.080 --> 1:28:29.080
<v Speaker 1>mind opening your own ski area, you'd open your own

1:28:29.320 --> 1:28:34.439
<v Speaker 1>drug store. That's all changed now. Okay. Even medical groups

1:28:34.560 --> 1:28:36.879
<v Speaker 1>if you can find a doctor. Certainly in Los Angeles

1:28:37.120 --> 1:28:40.360
<v Speaker 1>there are doctors, not parts of group. They don't take insurance.

1:28:40.479 --> 1:28:44.160
<v Speaker 1>They might file. That's it. It's a very thin layer

1:28:44.720 --> 1:28:48.879
<v Speaker 1>of the business. In addition, as I say, the skis

1:28:49.040 --> 1:28:54.400
<v Speaker 1>last longer because of the quiver paradigm. Active skiers have

1:28:54.560 --> 1:28:57.680
<v Speaker 1>more than one pair of skis. Yep, Okay, there may

1:28:57.720 --> 1:28:59.639
<v Speaker 1>be a paer they don't use. We have the whole

1:28:59.680 --> 1:29:02.600
<v Speaker 1>back entry thing. Terms of powder skis. If you have

1:29:02.760 --> 1:29:05.320
<v Speaker 1>a pair ten years is good enough, even if the

1:29:05.400 --> 1:29:09.160
<v Speaker 1>technology changes a little bit. So why go into the

1:29:09.320 --> 1:29:11.439
<v Speaker 1>physical goods business?

1:29:11.840 --> 1:29:17.720
<v Speaker 2>Now beyond a great question. But before I answer it,

1:29:18.320 --> 1:29:20.560
<v Speaker 2>you went to Middlebury. Were you a ski racer or

1:29:20.640 --> 1:29:21.320
<v Speaker 2>free I was.

1:29:21.479 --> 1:29:24.920
<v Speaker 1>I was on a ski team once. Let's be clear,

1:29:25.040 --> 1:29:27.559
<v Speaker 1>I was never of that caliber in terms of racer.

1:29:27.880 --> 1:29:30.320
<v Speaker 1>I was on the team once I got hurt. Then

1:29:30.800 --> 1:29:34.400
<v Speaker 1>after I went to Middlebury, I lived in Little Cottonwood

1:29:34.479 --> 1:29:37.600
<v Speaker 1>Canyon and at the time, in the seventies, that was

1:29:37.640 --> 1:29:40.040
<v Speaker 1>the epicenter of freestyle skiing. I did not know when

1:29:40.080 --> 1:29:42.519
<v Speaker 1>I moved there, but it was I competed on the

1:29:42.640 --> 1:29:47.080
<v Speaker 1>freestyle circuit. I wasn't a I mean I skied Scott

1:29:47.120 --> 1:29:50.000
<v Speaker 1>Brooks Banks, all the guy skiving these people every day. Okay,

1:29:50.200 --> 1:29:52.360
<v Speaker 1>but in terms of my results not good. And then

1:29:52.400 --> 1:29:57.320
<v Speaker 1>you realize, okay, you know, people don't understand it any

1:29:57.400 --> 1:30:03.160
<v Speaker 1>elite level of physical competition. It's sports. There are psychological

1:30:03.240 --> 1:30:05.720
<v Speaker 1>elements in experium and this guy, Scott Brooks bake. I

1:30:05.760 --> 1:30:07.880
<v Speaker 1>would ski with him every day. He would be just

1:30:07.960 --> 1:30:11.880
<v Speaker 1>as good, if not better, in competition. The average person chokes,

1:30:12.720 --> 1:30:15.439
<v Speaker 1>and an educated person would realize there's only a limited

1:30:15.479 --> 1:30:18.200
<v Speaker 1>amount of money in this sport. Then a friend of ours,

1:30:18.320 --> 1:30:22.000
<v Speaker 1>Dirk Douglas, got hurt on an inverted. They took the

1:30:22.080 --> 1:30:26.559
<v Speaker 1>inverteds out of freestyle and it crashed the business. Now,

1:30:26.640 --> 1:30:30.559
<v Speaker 1>ultimately Moguls were in the Olympics in renaissance. But that's

1:30:30.640 --> 1:30:33.320
<v Speaker 1>a long answer to your brief question.

1:30:33.960 --> 1:30:35.360
<v Speaker 2>Got it. But you know how to ski?

1:30:35.800 --> 1:30:36.439
<v Speaker 1>Oh, believe me.

1:30:36.520 --> 1:30:40.560
<v Speaker 2>I know how to ski, Gero Dow. Based on that,

1:30:41.200 --> 1:30:43.120
<v Speaker 2>I go deep on the freestyle community. Not as a

1:30:43.160 --> 1:30:45.599
<v Speaker 2>free see skier, but Park Smalley might have been.

1:30:45.760 --> 1:30:48.160
<v Speaker 1>I used to skid. I ski with Park Smallly in

1:30:48.280 --> 1:30:50.920
<v Speaker 1>Mammoth in nineteen seventy five. He came out and stayed

1:30:50.960 --> 1:30:52.920
<v Speaker 1>with us long before he was a coach.

1:30:53.439 --> 1:30:56.240
<v Speaker 2>He's a very very dear friend of mine from Steamboat College.

1:30:56.600 --> 1:30:59.479
<v Speaker 2>Steamboat Yeah and yeah, we did a truckload of stuff.

1:30:59.479 --> 1:31:02.479
<v Speaker 2>In fact, hosted a bunch of freestyle World Cups. One

1:31:02.520 --> 1:31:05.280
<v Speaker 2>of them I named a whole freestyle complex after him,

1:31:05.360 --> 1:31:09.120
<v Speaker 2>the Perks Freestyle Complex. I'm surprised him. It was really

1:31:09.160 --> 1:31:11.840
<v Speaker 2>cool that night. But go deep in that space. In fact,

1:31:12.000 --> 1:31:16.799
<v Speaker 2>very dear friend Johnny Moseley ninety eight Gold and Travis

1:31:16.920 --> 1:31:20.320
<v Speaker 2>Mayor and other Steamboat kids mostly go deep in that space,

1:31:20.400 --> 1:31:22.160
<v Speaker 2>but have a lot of respect. The other thing, by

1:31:22.200 --> 1:31:23.920
<v Speaker 2>the way, terms of I don't know what your injuries were,

1:31:24.040 --> 1:31:26.600
<v Speaker 2>but in the seventies and the early eighties, no, but

1:31:26.800 --> 1:31:28.559
<v Speaker 2>you guys were doing some crazy stuff in the air

1:31:28.680 --> 1:31:31.799
<v Speaker 2>and landing on hard pack. And now we put groups

1:31:31.840 --> 1:31:34.960
<v Speaker 2>of choppers on the hill below the bumps, the airs

1:31:34.960 --> 1:31:37.240
<v Speaker 2>on the bump courses, and certainly the aerials and stuff.

1:31:37.280 --> 1:31:38.479
<v Speaker 2>You guys didn't have that, So I.

1:31:38.520 --> 1:31:41.400
<v Speaker 1>Know, a vast improvement. I'm interrupting, but just to make

1:31:41.479 --> 1:31:47.559
<v Speaker 1>this point in that that the ski business was driven

1:31:47.640 --> 1:31:51.760
<v Speaker 1>by my air quotes racing skis for decades. Then you

1:31:51.880 --> 1:31:54.839
<v Speaker 1>had K two that got out of the racing business,

1:31:55.520 --> 1:31:59.480
<v Speaker 1>and certainly in America, racing skis don't mean that much. Ironically,

1:31:59.600 --> 1:32:04.760
<v Speaker 1>skinny the skis still are sold in Europe much more

1:32:04.880 --> 1:32:09.439
<v Speaker 1>than in the United States. However, we've gotten to a point,

1:32:09.600 --> 1:32:13.080
<v Speaker 1>and this is just my own personal beef, that once

1:32:13.160 --> 1:32:17.479
<v Speaker 1>you start making the moguls, it's become so profetd it's

1:32:17.560 --> 1:32:21.000
<v Speaker 1>not the same way such that other than moguls, the

1:32:21.120 --> 1:32:23.759
<v Speaker 1>best giers and you're working with buddy, the best skiers

1:32:23.800 --> 1:32:26.200
<v Speaker 1>are the racers. Just to go one step further front

1:32:26.240 --> 1:32:29.160
<v Speaker 1>of mine to instructor and Aspen, and there was a

1:32:29.320 --> 1:32:33.000
<v Speaker 1>video of someone analyzing the technique of Marcel Herscher who

1:32:33.160 --> 1:32:37.559
<v Speaker 1>was literally breaking every rule. Yeh okay, So there's different

1:32:37.640 --> 1:32:39.679
<v Speaker 1>schools of thought. When I lived in Utah, the worst

1:32:39.720 --> 1:32:41.559
<v Speaker 1>thing you could be, and you would laugh. You didn't

1:32:41.560 --> 1:32:44.120
<v Speaker 1>want to be an instructor. We laughed at those people.

1:32:44.520 --> 1:32:49.000
<v Speaker 1>By the same token, in most ski areas, the racers

1:32:49.040 --> 1:32:51.680
<v Speaker 1>are off in their own hill, their own paradigm. No

1:32:51.720 --> 1:32:54.559
<v Speaker 1>one even cares about those people. Then we had big

1:32:54.640 --> 1:32:56.519
<v Speaker 1>mountain skiing. You know, we have the different album, but

1:32:56.600 --> 1:33:02.240
<v Speaker 1>the average person is skiing in bounds, and an incredible

1:33:02.320 --> 1:33:05.160
<v Speaker 1>percentage of people if it's a storm, won't even go

1:33:05.280 --> 1:33:06.240
<v Speaker 1>out right.

1:33:08.080 --> 1:33:10.679
<v Speaker 2>You know, you were in little Cottonwood. You were probably

1:33:10.720 --> 1:33:14.080
<v Speaker 2>on two fours, two of sevens, two eleven's, probably raise skis,

1:33:14.240 --> 1:33:17.720
<v Speaker 2>straight sticks, and you were hammering down on some of

1:33:17.760 --> 1:33:22.160
<v Speaker 2>the bigger bumps. Totally pick up that scene. I would, well, we.

1:33:22.200 --> 1:33:24.679
<v Speaker 1>Would laugh because people started to ski on one seventy

1:33:24.760 --> 1:33:26.760
<v Speaker 1>zold and mark four that you're in seventy and the

1:33:26.840 --> 1:33:27.439
<v Speaker 1>bombs come on.

1:33:27.840 --> 1:33:30.760
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, totally look down on him appropriately so so

1:33:31.160 --> 1:33:33.840
<v Speaker 2>Mary Jane, it was the same way Colorado in the

1:33:33.840 --> 1:33:36.000
<v Speaker 2>mid eighties. It was like, you know you do not.

1:33:36.200 --> 1:33:37.680
<v Speaker 2>In fact, I think they had signs up there they

1:33:37.720 --> 1:33:40.639
<v Speaker 2>said anything less than a two four, literally you can't

1:33:40.680 --> 1:33:45.479
<v Speaker 2>ski here, right right? Get it? So that's really cool.

1:33:45.520 --> 1:33:48.200
<v Speaker 2>You have that background, that heritage and park's great guy,

1:33:48.400 --> 1:33:53.120
<v Speaker 2>great friend. The answer your question comes back to something

1:33:53.160 --> 1:33:55.800
<v Speaker 2>I didn't answer. Your first question was how do I

1:33:55.880 --> 1:33:57.880
<v Speaker 2>know body? But it relates to this. So when I

1:33:58.000 --> 1:34:02.680
<v Speaker 2>retired body, and I let me answer straight up, it

1:34:02.800 --> 1:34:04.320
<v Speaker 2>makes no sense to be in the hard good side

1:34:04.320 --> 1:34:09.759
<v Speaker 2>of the business when I came back from a Middle

1:34:09.800 --> 1:34:12.720
<v Speaker 2>East Well, let me back up step. So I think

1:34:12.800 --> 1:34:16.439
<v Speaker 2>I purchased probably five hundred to million pairs of skis

1:34:16.479 --> 1:34:19.960
<v Speaker 2>in my career for different ski areas, and knowing a

1:34:20.040 --> 1:34:24.920
<v Speaker 2>fair amount about the business, models would probably consistently think

1:34:25.000 --> 1:34:26.760
<v Speaker 2>to myself, why would you ever want to be in

1:34:26.840 --> 1:34:31.200
<v Speaker 2>that business? Because all the things you mentioned about ski

1:34:31.280 --> 1:34:33.679
<v Speaker 2>resorts and the hard good side of the ski skis

1:34:34.479 --> 1:34:36.479
<v Speaker 2>is right. In fact, we looked at a book on

1:34:36.960 --> 1:34:39.559
<v Speaker 2>K two Mark or Vocal gosh, the thing was sixteen

1:34:39.640 --> 1:34:42.720
<v Speaker 2>or something like that, rubber Maid and can't remember the

1:34:42.760 --> 1:34:45.640
<v Speaker 2>different groups, but it'd be fair to say that the

1:34:45.720 --> 1:34:48.639
<v Speaker 2>ski resorts side of business, even if you have somewhat

1:34:48.640 --> 1:34:52.679
<v Speaker 2>of a clue, you're you're okay. Regardless of the market

1:34:52.760 --> 1:34:55.160
<v Speaker 2>dynamics we've talked about, you're okay. You're probably doing twenty

1:34:55.320 --> 1:34:58.599
<v Speaker 2>twenty five percent EBITDA margin on bad years and thirty

1:34:58.640 --> 1:35:01.240
<v Speaker 2>thirty five percent EBITDA margin on decent years. And there

1:35:01.280 --> 1:35:03.439
<v Speaker 2>are those who exceed that on an ongoing basis, and

1:35:03.520 --> 1:35:06.960
<v Speaker 2>that's ebitdah right net operating cash call. It's not exactly that.

1:35:07.040 --> 1:35:09.000
<v Speaker 2>Bullet's call it that for the time being, hard you

1:35:09.000 --> 1:35:11.320
<v Speaker 2>goes side of the business different tale out of any

1:35:11.439 --> 1:35:15.760
<v Speaker 2>ten years of any ski company you mentioned, it's not

1:35:15.840 --> 1:35:19.479
<v Speaker 2>even a capital intensive business either, but because of the

1:35:19.560 --> 1:35:24.559
<v Speaker 2>retail distribution model and more, and it's largely driven by

1:35:24.960 --> 1:35:28.920
<v Speaker 2>Europeans save K two and their intensity of focus on racing.

1:35:29.360 --> 1:35:32.120
<v Speaker 2>Be fair to say that any ten year period, you

1:35:32.160 --> 1:35:34.800
<v Speaker 2>can take a snapshot and say two of those years

1:35:34.880 --> 1:35:38.960
<v Speaker 2>they might pull down five to seven percent margin three

1:35:39.120 --> 1:35:42.160
<v Speaker 2>or four of those ten years on I'm talking trailing

1:35:42.240 --> 1:35:45.559
<v Speaker 2>ten years. Of any ten years, they're barely breaking even

1:35:45.600 --> 1:35:48.040
<v Speaker 2>in those other two to three years. Remnant on this

1:35:48.240 --> 1:35:50.880
<v Speaker 2>math is they're getting crushed like a bug on a

1:35:50.920 --> 1:35:57.800
<v Speaker 2>windshield and knowing that, why would you want to do that? Right,

1:35:58.240 --> 1:36:01.120
<v Speaker 2>Passion drives a lot of people, and in some cases

1:36:01.160 --> 1:36:02.800
<v Speaker 2>I compared to some of the great folks I knew

1:36:02.840 --> 1:36:06.719
<v Speaker 2>that used to run airlines Delta Continental and like there's

1:36:06.760 --> 1:36:08.320
<v Speaker 2>times where they would not be doing well.

1:36:09.880 --> 1:36:11.759
<v Speaker 1>I find it, We're going to buy an airline stock

1:36:12.320 --> 1:36:13.760
<v Speaker 1>you know the history of airlines.

1:36:13.800 --> 1:36:16.519
<v Speaker 2>I did do that, and we could talk an awful

1:36:16.560 --> 1:36:18.519
<v Speaker 2>lot about that. That's also how it cut my teeth

1:36:18.760 --> 1:36:21.360
<v Speaker 2>in the business and SKI was through all the analytics

1:36:21.360 --> 1:36:22.080
<v Speaker 2>around the air program.

1:36:22.200 --> 1:36:25.040
<v Speaker 1>What people don't know is those are subsidized flights into

1:36:25.080 --> 1:36:28.160
<v Speaker 1>ski areas, so you guarantee a certain amount to the

1:36:28.200 --> 1:36:31.719
<v Speaker 1>airline and if you don't hit that, the ski area

1:36:31.760 --> 1:36:32.639
<v Speaker 1>makes up the shortfall.

1:36:32.840 --> 1:36:36.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's exactly right. Called minimum revenue guarantees, And right

1:36:36.439 --> 1:36:38.840
<v Speaker 2>out of in my internship, I was running models on that,

1:36:39.080 --> 1:36:41.400
<v Speaker 2>which made no sense because I had no freaking earthly

1:36:41.479 --> 1:36:43.720
<v Speaker 2>clue what I was doing. But I learned a lot

1:36:43.880 --> 1:36:48.800
<v Speaker 2>in that process on those revenue guarantees. So back to

1:36:48.880 --> 1:36:53.519
<v Speaker 2>the point, it's it didn't make sense. But when after

1:36:53.560 --> 1:36:55.559
<v Speaker 2>I had retired, I got to know body really well.

1:36:55.720 --> 1:36:57.559
<v Speaker 2>At this time, I was on the USK team board

1:36:57.560 --> 1:37:01.679
<v Speaker 2>of directors and we I was living with my wife

1:37:01.720 --> 1:37:05.080
<v Speaker 2>in San Juan Capistrano, California, and he was just up

1:37:05.080 --> 1:37:09.640
<v Speaker 2>the road in Coda Kotakuta, Coda Dekaza, Coda Dekaza, the

1:37:10.000 --> 1:37:11.040
<v Speaker 2>neighborhood down there in Orne.

1:37:11.080 --> 1:37:12.599
<v Speaker 1>I know it's down by ranchall Sam Bernardo.

1:37:12.960 --> 1:37:16.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I don't know. Everything around here is a rancho

1:37:16.479 --> 1:37:20.559
<v Speaker 2>or a. But we'd hang out, and at that time,

1:37:20.640 --> 1:37:22.400
<v Speaker 2>most of it was, Hey, how do we fix the

1:37:22.520 --> 1:37:25.800
<v Speaker 2>USK team. We're having some challenges again and again again.

1:37:25.880 --> 1:37:29.920
<v Speaker 2>How do we stop this maddening cycle? Tragically in that

1:37:30.200 --> 1:37:32.760
<v Speaker 2>we knew each other, we were friends. I pulled I'd

1:37:33.000 --> 1:37:35.840
<v Speaker 2>been asked a long time ago, fourteen or thirteen to

1:37:36.320 --> 1:37:39.360
<v Speaker 2>buy Governor Sandoval of Nevada and Governor Brown at the

1:37:39.400 --> 1:37:41.519
<v Speaker 2>time of California to help bring the Olympics back to

1:37:41.800 --> 1:37:45.880
<v Speaker 2>like Tahoe from nineteen sixty and I called him and

1:37:46.439 --> 1:37:48.960
<v Speaker 2>pulled him into some of the initial discussions on that

1:37:49.400 --> 1:37:51.880
<v Speaker 2>targeting twenty twenty two. So I knew him pretty well,

1:37:52.280 --> 1:37:56.120
<v Speaker 2>and I knew him as a friend. And one of

1:37:56.200 --> 1:37:58.840
<v Speaker 2>the other tales of Bodie this I think worth telling,

1:37:58.960 --> 1:38:01.080
<v Speaker 2>is I was lining up to buy a whole bunch

1:38:01.120 --> 1:38:03.320
<v Speaker 2>of skis for Squad Valley Alpai Metos, I know, like

1:38:03.400 --> 1:38:07.200
<v Speaker 2>ten fifteen, twenty thousand pairs of skis, restock and head.

1:38:07.439 --> 1:38:08.800
<v Speaker 2>He was on head at the time, but he was

1:38:08.840 --> 1:38:11.920
<v Speaker 2>injured and he just basically didn't have a right foot

1:38:11.920 --> 1:38:13.479
<v Speaker 2>that he could have put any pressure on. If you

1:38:13.560 --> 1:38:16.200
<v Speaker 2>remember that injury, I think was thirteen something like that

1:38:16.360 --> 1:38:21.040
<v Speaker 2>port right, and so Head to try and influence me, says, hey,

1:38:21.080 --> 1:38:23.400
<v Speaker 2>we're going to bring Boddy Miller and hang out with him.

1:38:23.479 --> 1:38:26.720
<v Speaker 2>They're like, okay, cool, And we ended up skiing for

1:38:26.760 --> 1:38:29.000
<v Speaker 2>the day, just the two of us, him on one

1:38:29.040 --> 1:38:31.160
<v Speaker 2>foot and me on both feet. I was able because

1:38:31.200 --> 1:38:33.560
<v Speaker 2>of that to somewhat keep up with him, but we

1:38:33.600 --> 1:38:35.960
<v Speaker 2>didn't talk about skis or skiing at all all day

1:38:36.000 --> 1:38:38.720
<v Speaker 2>long because at that time he was going through a

1:38:38.880 --> 1:38:44.479
<v Speaker 2>very public challenge with his daughter. And it was when,

1:38:45.160 --> 1:38:47.240
<v Speaker 2>as you know, you have many very famous people on

1:38:47.320 --> 1:38:49.640
<v Speaker 2>the show, with stuff like that happens, it ends up

1:38:49.680 --> 1:38:52.960
<v Speaker 2>in freaking People magazine, and it's hard enough going through

1:38:53.760 --> 1:38:58.679
<v Speaker 2>challenges with kids and a split family. Anyway, For those who.

1:38:58.600 --> 1:39:00.560
<v Speaker 1>Don't know, he had a young daughter drown and a

1:39:00.800 --> 1:39:02.040
<v Speaker 1>swimming pool well, just.

1:39:02.080 --> 1:39:04.120
<v Speaker 2>About to get to that, and this case it's his

1:39:04.200 --> 1:39:05.880
<v Speaker 2>older daughter. At that time, we all we did was

1:39:05.920 --> 1:39:08.920
<v Speaker 2>talk about because I had three kids from a divorced family,

1:39:08.960 --> 1:39:12.559
<v Speaker 2>and how to put yourself in your own interests behind

1:39:12.880 --> 1:39:16.080
<v Speaker 2>those of the interests of your kid. All we talked

1:39:16.080 --> 1:39:18.680
<v Speaker 2>about we skied and we were chair lifts, and that's

1:39:18.680 --> 1:39:20.800
<v Speaker 2>all we talked about. We hardly and I was like,

1:39:20.960 --> 1:39:25.479
<v Speaker 2>this guy's there's nothing like the persona many thought of,

1:39:25.920 --> 1:39:29.280
<v Speaker 2>you know, showing up to start kits buel for the

1:39:29.360 --> 1:39:33.880
<v Speaker 2>Hona khoum with a hangover, drunk or whatever. This solid

1:39:33.920 --> 1:39:37.200
<v Speaker 2>guy inside I could see it. We ride chair lips

1:39:37.240 --> 1:39:39.680
<v Speaker 2>with people. You get to get to see that if

1:39:39.720 --> 1:39:43.240
<v Speaker 2>you know how to pay attention. I did. I was impressed,

1:39:44.920 --> 1:39:48.040
<v Speaker 2>bookmark that. Then we were living near each other, were

1:39:48.040 --> 1:39:50.400
<v Speaker 2>hanging out. We're the two guys that are retired, that

1:39:50.479 --> 1:39:52.400
<v Speaker 2>have too much time on her hands, drifting a conversation

1:39:52.520 --> 1:39:55.599
<v Speaker 2>at the coffee shop doing and then and then tragically

1:39:55.680 --> 1:39:58.840
<v Speaker 2>his daughter Emmy died, And I do anything to undo that.

1:39:59.280 --> 1:40:02.560
<v Speaker 2>I would take five rounds. I would do anything to

1:40:02.680 --> 1:40:05.719
<v Speaker 2>undo the pain that that caused him and his wife, Morgan.

1:40:07.439 --> 1:40:12.800
<v Speaker 2>It's just fucking heartbreaking, and I was amazed at how

1:40:12.920 --> 1:40:15.519
<v Speaker 2>solid he was through that circumstance. I gave him a

1:40:15.560 --> 1:40:18.120
<v Speaker 2>couple and gave him. I called him and said, I

1:40:18.160 --> 1:40:19.840
<v Speaker 2>don't know, I don't have any words for you. I

1:40:19.920 --> 1:40:21.560
<v Speaker 2>can't help you out. All I could do is be

1:40:21.800 --> 1:40:26.160
<v Speaker 2>a wingman. And he called me too three days later

1:40:26.680 --> 1:40:29.720
<v Speaker 2>and started off, did you know that drowning is the

1:40:29.800 --> 1:40:33.479
<v Speaker 2>number one cause of infant death? Buddy had no idea.

1:40:33.520 --> 1:40:35.880
<v Speaker 2>That's how he let off, Hey, Buddy, how you doing?

1:40:36.680 --> 1:40:40.560
<v Speaker 2>Did you know that? And I was so from that

1:40:40.800 --> 1:40:45.840
<v Speaker 2>point forward, I can't remember how to I don't even

1:40:45.880 --> 1:40:48.679
<v Speaker 2>know how to describe that error. But became better friends,

1:40:49.280 --> 1:40:52.320
<v Speaker 2>Like I said, do anything to freaking undo that shitty

1:40:52.360 --> 1:40:56.200
<v Speaker 2>way to become better friends. But then we ended up

1:40:56.280 --> 1:41:00.160
<v Speaker 2>drifting back into conversation about you a ski team, their

1:41:00.240 --> 1:41:03.479
<v Speaker 2>business ventures and alike, and a lot of stuff in

1:41:03.479 --> 1:41:05.800
<v Speaker 2>between there here and there. But then on an entirely

1:41:05.840 --> 1:41:08.040
<v Speaker 2>different realm of work, line of work that I do,

1:41:08.960 --> 1:41:10.599
<v Speaker 2>I was over the Middle East for about a year

1:41:10.800 --> 1:41:14.400
<v Speaker 2>and change came back and I had by that time.

1:41:14.360 --> 1:41:16.160
<v Speaker 1>We were up in Montana, this time out for one

1:41:16.200 --> 1:41:17.559
<v Speaker 1>saying what were you doing in the Middle East?

1:41:17.880 --> 1:41:23.960
<v Speaker 2>A couple of things. I was working for the Crown

1:41:24.040 --> 1:41:27.840
<v Speaker 2>Prints of Saudi Arabia Mohammed Ben Solomon, and I don't

1:41:27.920 --> 1:41:30.800
<v Speaker 2>have anything at all good to say about that person.

1:41:32.160 --> 1:41:36.760
<v Speaker 2>He is everything you read about except worse. And so

1:41:37.040 --> 1:41:38.920
<v Speaker 2>I was doing a couple of different things over there,

1:41:39.760 --> 1:41:44.599
<v Speaker 2>and probably not something I talked about in great detail

1:41:45.080 --> 1:41:48.439
<v Speaker 2>on air. But it was an entirely different sector in

1:41:48.520 --> 1:41:52.160
<v Speaker 2>space I had to do with entirely nothing to do

1:41:52.280 --> 1:41:53.920
<v Speaker 2>with skiing at all.

1:41:54.680 --> 1:41:55.680
<v Speaker 1>What did it have to do with.

1:41:58.640 --> 1:42:02.800
<v Speaker 2>A threat and risk assessment and mitigation and in some

1:42:02.920 --> 1:42:07.720
<v Speaker 2>cases training with assets of our country that might be

1:42:08.200 --> 1:42:13.559
<v Speaker 2>could be special way for operators working with their Ministry

1:42:13.600 --> 1:42:15.800
<v Speaker 2>of Defense to help them improve their capabilities.

1:42:15.960 --> 1:42:19.559
<v Speaker 1>How does one get that gig? It's a long story, Okay,

1:42:19.560 --> 1:42:21.719
<v Speaker 1>then let's forget it. Yeah, comes from the Middle East.

1:42:21.760 --> 1:42:24.000
<v Speaker 2>I come back from the Middle East and I have

1:42:24.120 --> 1:42:27.479
<v Speaker 2>time on my hands. And at this point body says, hey,

1:42:27.520 --> 1:42:29.120
<v Speaker 2>I want to help me out with this little project

1:42:30.080 --> 1:42:32.760
<v Speaker 2>he's working on and it was with a hard goods company.

1:42:32.800 --> 1:42:35.560
<v Speaker 2>It was a ski company, and he asked me to

1:42:35.720 --> 1:42:38.800
<v Speaker 2>help do some work with this try and fix it up,

1:42:39.120 --> 1:42:42.439
<v Speaker 2>remedy some of the challenges they were having. And at

1:42:42.479 --> 1:42:44.960
<v Speaker 2>one point I said, body, I sure, I'll be doing

1:42:45.000 --> 1:42:48.360
<v Speaker 2>anything for you, no problem at all. And it was

1:42:48.439 --> 1:42:51.640
<v Speaker 2>fair to be fair to say that Warren Buffett couldn't

1:42:51.680 --> 1:42:53.559
<v Speaker 2>fix this deal up. But in the meantime I had

1:42:53.640 --> 1:42:56.519
<v Speaker 2>learned a lot. I learned a bit about manufacturing of skis,

1:42:56.520 --> 1:42:58.800
<v Speaker 2>which I didn't know much, and I learned about some

1:42:58.880 --> 1:43:00.880
<v Speaker 2>of the stuff that was in his mind mind that

1:43:01.000 --> 1:43:05.360
<v Speaker 2>he never had a chance to put in place, because

1:43:05.520 --> 1:43:07.759
<v Speaker 2>and that's actually part of the ethos of our company

1:43:07.880 --> 1:43:11.320
<v Speaker 2>is this is what we've done, is take all the noise,

1:43:11.400 --> 1:43:13.840
<v Speaker 2>all the egos, all the stuff, all the people in

1:43:13.920 --> 1:43:15.840
<v Speaker 2>between his mind and the skis, and there's nothing in

1:43:15.880 --> 1:43:18.360
<v Speaker 2>between the right what is in his mind is on

1:43:18.439 --> 1:43:22.240
<v Speaker 2>the skis that you ski on hard stop. But in

1:43:22.320 --> 1:43:25.200
<v Speaker 2>that process learned and then, oh gosh, I don't know,

1:43:25.720 --> 1:43:28.200
<v Speaker 2>six months into it, said give me a second, and

1:43:28.360 --> 1:43:33.320
<v Speaker 2>I crawled back into my rusty quantitative analytics mode cave

1:43:33.640 --> 1:43:35.800
<v Speaker 2>and it ran a whole bunch of analysis, whole bunch

1:43:35.840 --> 1:43:38.160
<v Speaker 2>of research, you know, kind of going back to my

1:43:38.240 --> 1:43:41.120
<v Speaker 2>old days, and built some models and came out of

1:43:41.200 --> 1:43:44.439
<v Speaker 2>that said here's the deal. Let's go do this. But

1:43:44.560 --> 1:43:46.160
<v Speaker 2>we're going to have change the model because neither of

1:43:46.240 --> 1:43:48.320
<v Speaker 2>us want to be in the hard goods business because

1:43:48.320 --> 1:43:51.040
<v Speaker 2>of what we described earlier. What you described earlier to

1:43:51.120 --> 1:43:54.000
<v Speaker 2>be true is true. But the only means by which

1:43:54.080 --> 1:43:56.519
<v Speaker 2>to make this work is with these three, four or

1:43:56.560 --> 1:44:02.280
<v Speaker 2>five tenants. And we're classic business planning stage stages of concept,

1:44:02.360 --> 1:44:05.360
<v Speaker 2>proof of concept, developed business plan. We're in proof of concept,

1:44:05.920 --> 1:44:08.960
<v Speaker 2>developing the business plan. And in this case we need

1:44:09.000 --> 1:44:12.200
<v Speaker 2>to go direct consumer. Have e com only be our

1:44:12.280 --> 1:44:16.360
<v Speaker 2>deal because the distribution system of ski shops and broker

1:44:16.720 --> 1:44:19.840
<v Speaker 2>the broker groups, the buying groups were killing margin. And

1:44:19.960 --> 1:44:22.360
<v Speaker 2>that's why you have that circumstance. Make a pair of

1:44:22.400 --> 1:44:25.240
<v Speaker 2>skis for two hundred dollars a pair, right, sell them

1:44:25.360 --> 1:44:28.280
<v Speaker 2>for eight hundred whatever the MSRP is or even the

1:44:28.360 --> 1:44:32.360
<v Speaker 2>most available the most commonly available pricing. But then you're

1:44:32.400 --> 1:44:35.920
<v Speaker 2>selling them to those resellers. It's not somewhat self evident.

1:44:35.760 --> 1:44:38.120
<v Speaker 1>Right, they're selling them for like five hundred dollars.

1:44:38.560 --> 1:44:42.599
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, but the manufacturing manufacturers are actually netting quite

1:44:42.600 --> 1:44:43.439
<v Speaker 2>a bit less. Right.

1:44:43.880 --> 1:44:45.519
<v Speaker 1>Well, what I'm trying to say is that coster two

1:44:45.600 --> 1:44:48.680
<v Speaker 1>hundred wholesale is four to five hundred. The retailer may

1:44:48.760 --> 1:44:50.960
<v Speaker 1>sell seven to eight So if they can sell them,

1:44:51.240 --> 1:44:53.320
<v Speaker 1>they're making as much as the manufacturer.

1:44:53.400 --> 1:44:55.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and if it's four to five hundred on wholesale,

1:44:55.280 --> 1:44:58.599
<v Speaker 2>that's a very good number. Suffice to say that we're

1:44:58.640 --> 1:44:59.760
<v Speaker 2>not going to be able to do that. And now

1:44:59.800 --> 1:45:02.080
<v Speaker 2>it's whatever it was twenty twenty one or twenty two.

1:45:02.120 --> 1:45:05.519
<v Speaker 2>I would think so in that zone, and it might

1:45:05.560 --> 1:45:09.960
<v Speaker 2>be the last industry to move into DTCEE con direct

1:45:10.000 --> 1:45:15.320
<v Speaker 2>to consumer econ. Others sell skis smaller, great companies Jay

1:45:15.880 --> 1:45:20.280
<v Speaker 2>Leventhal and they're great, and they've kind of had that model,

1:45:20.320 --> 1:45:24.000
<v Speaker 2>but we're contemplating something a little bit bigger scale. And

1:45:25.000 --> 1:45:28.000
<v Speaker 2>so that was our the business model, which sounds easier

1:45:28.120 --> 1:45:31.600
<v Speaker 2>than it sounds easier to it's easy to say it

1:45:31.640 --> 1:45:33.439
<v Speaker 2>out loud than it is to actually put it in place.

1:45:34.080 --> 1:45:36.439
<v Speaker 2>But because you have a tradition, you have a history

1:45:36.800 --> 1:45:40.160
<v Speaker 2>in ski business, and we respect that. There was more

1:45:40.200 --> 1:45:41.840
<v Speaker 2>to it than that, but that was the key thing

1:45:42.080 --> 1:45:43.320
<v Speaker 2>in terms of U saying we're going to do this,

1:45:43.360 --> 1:45:45.560
<v Speaker 2>We're gonna have could go DTC com. I call the

1:45:45.600 --> 1:45:48.280
<v Speaker 2>buddy of mine who ran Canyon Bikes, Great Bikes. He

1:45:48.800 --> 1:45:52.160
<v Speaker 2>brought Canyon to the States in twenty sixteen and industry.

1:45:52.200 --> 1:45:56.400
<v Speaker 2>That's a strong analog because bikes, bike shops and alike.

1:45:57.520 --> 1:46:00.599
<v Speaker 2>But they had great success, and he was nice enought

1:46:00.600 --> 1:46:03.200
<v Speaker 2>to open up his playbook and share with me. But

1:46:03.360 --> 1:46:06.479
<v Speaker 2>it was basically three or four Harvard Business School case studies,

1:46:06.520 --> 1:46:10.720
<v Speaker 2>full of notes, notepads, and adopted a lot of policies

1:46:10.840 --> 1:46:14.960
<v Speaker 2>thinking approach the canyon. They fed straight into our business model.

1:46:15.000 --> 1:46:19.240
<v Speaker 2>And when we announced Peak Ski Company April sixth, I

1:46:19.320 --> 1:46:21.200
<v Speaker 2>think it was last year.

1:46:28.439 --> 1:46:33.240
<v Speaker 1>So body Body retires and then of course he makes

1:46:33.280 --> 1:46:36.880
<v Speaker 1>a deal with Bomber Skis, which ultimately became an elite ski.

1:46:37.479 --> 1:46:40.519
<v Speaker 1>He leaves Bomber, but elite in terms of price, small

1:46:40.640 --> 1:46:41.200
<v Speaker 1>market ski.

1:46:41.400 --> 1:46:41.559
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

1:46:41.960 --> 1:46:45.479
<v Speaker 1>Then he goes with a Pacific Northwest company Cross and

1:46:45.640 --> 1:46:49.080
<v Speaker 1>he really says he's invested in that company. Then he

1:46:49.280 --> 1:46:54.240
<v Speaker 1>leaves that to go to Peak. Now for the once again,

1:46:54.920 --> 1:46:59.200
<v Speaker 1>every business is small at the top. However, skiing is

1:46:59.320 --> 1:47:03.800
<v Speaker 1>a it is relatively small compared to software, cars, whatever.

1:47:04.560 --> 1:47:09.800
<v Speaker 1>So within the business one can argue quite strongly based

1:47:09.840 --> 1:47:15.439
<v Speaker 1>on conversation, that he hurt his image by jumping from

1:47:15.560 --> 1:47:19.320
<v Speaker 1>company to company. Yeah, and therefore, to what degree is

1:47:19.400 --> 1:47:22.280
<v Speaker 1>that a factor? It's almost like well now I'm starting over,

1:47:22.400 --> 1:47:23.599
<v Speaker 1>but it's like the third time.

1:47:23.880 --> 1:47:27.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, your point's really well made, particularly in the

1:47:27.400 --> 1:47:30.679
<v Speaker 2>consumer market view of things. It's very well made, particularly

1:47:30.720 --> 1:47:33.080
<v Speaker 2>those who are fishonados in the sport and follow and

1:47:33.160 --> 1:47:36.160
<v Speaker 2>track that that's not many, to be honest with you.

1:47:36.320 --> 1:47:38.720
<v Speaker 2>But at the same time, your points well made. In

1:47:38.800 --> 1:47:41.439
<v Speaker 2>this case, he was kind of indifferent to it. And frankly,

1:47:41.640 --> 1:47:45.000
<v Speaker 2>I was two, and we had the benefit of being

1:47:45.520 --> 1:47:48.760
<v Speaker 2>of being indifferent to that and saying okay, got it.

1:47:49.479 --> 1:47:51.120
<v Speaker 2>But I knew on the inside. He knew on the

1:47:51.200 --> 1:47:55.439
<v Speaker 2>inside what had and had not happened at all ski companies,

1:47:55.520 --> 1:47:58.600
<v Speaker 2>including those two that you mentioned, and that was fundamentally

1:47:58.680 --> 1:48:02.200
<v Speaker 2>his ability to take what is you have to understand.

1:48:02.240 --> 1:48:05.920
<v Speaker 2>I know he's been on your show. I equated him

1:48:05.920 --> 1:48:09.160
<v Speaker 2>because I grew up in the Air Force to the

1:48:09.280 --> 1:48:14.840
<v Speaker 2>right stuff, General Chuck Yeager, you would go to the

1:48:15.040 --> 1:48:17.880
<v Speaker 2>skunk works is when that was first developed, and hang

1:48:17.920 --> 1:48:20.759
<v Speaker 2>out with the flight engineers all day long, months and months,

1:48:20.880 --> 1:48:22.760
<v Speaker 2>and then you get a cup of coffee, jump in

1:48:22.800 --> 1:48:24.599
<v Speaker 2>a flight suit and go fly the damn thing. Come

1:48:24.680 --> 1:48:28.160
<v Speaker 2>back feed input to the engineers, saying it mock point nine.

1:48:28.200 --> 1:48:29.759
<v Speaker 2>And I know this because he's a friend of my father's.

1:48:30.640 --> 1:48:33.200
<v Speaker 2>He was an experimental pilot too at some point, and

1:48:33.880 --> 1:48:38.879
<v Speaker 2>held General Dieger in great esteem. He was unlike anybody

1:48:38.920 --> 1:48:42.000
<v Speaker 2>else because he could make how the X one happened.

1:48:42.200 --> 1:48:43.920
<v Speaker 2>He didn't just fly the damn thing. He played a

1:48:43.960 --> 1:48:46.720
<v Speaker 2>role in its development. I realized a bodie's like that.

1:48:46.800 --> 1:48:50.200
<v Speaker 2>I also really realized that his mind is very different

1:48:50.280 --> 1:48:54.360
<v Speaker 2>than many think. He's got a creativity. There's times I've

1:48:54.360 --> 1:48:56.320
<v Speaker 2>been on hundreds of hours of calls with him, Bob,

1:48:56.800 --> 1:48:59.519
<v Speaker 2>with engineers, some of the best engineers at Design Skis,

1:49:00.080 --> 1:49:02.160
<v Speaker 2>and it's just times I'll hang up and go, when

1:49:02.200 --> 1:49:05.800
<v Speaker 2>did you get your Masters in engineering from MIT? He's

1:49:05.840 --> 1:49:10.280
<v Speaker 2>got this brilliant mind. What's that great movie with Robin

1:49:10.320 --> 1:49:13.880
<v Speaker 2>Williams about the guy running calculus? He's a janitor. He's

1:49:13.960 --> 1:49:19.920
<v Speaker 2>doing calculus on the chalkboard in between wiping floors. Oh God,

1:49:20.120 --> 1:49:21.320
<v Speaker 2>was that movie. I can't remember the name of that

1:49:21.320 --> 1:49:23.680
<v Speaker 2>one right now. It escapes me. But he's got this

1:49:24.120 --> 1:49:26.400
<v Speaker 2>mental level brilliance, creative brilliance.

1:49:26.560 --> 1:49:28.439
<v Speaker 1>Well, for those who follow, and as you say, it's

1:49:28.479 --> 1:49:32.400
<v Speaker 1>a limited number. Body and Marcel Herscher were known as

1:49:32.479 --> 1:49:36.680
<v Speaker 1>the most terms of tinkerers. Yep, Marcel Herscher was more

1:49:36.760 --> 1:49:40.000
<v Speaker 1>focusing a lot of times. I'mlike, what was the ramp angle?

1:49:40.080 --> 1:49:42.639
<v Speaker 1>And is the grinding of his boots? Not that body

1:49:42.760 --> 1:49:45.639
<v Speaker 1>wasn't into that either, But just to stop with Marcel

1:49:45.760 --> 1:49:49.800
<v Speaker 1>for a minute, Marcel has his own company, Van Deere.

1:49:50.400 --> 1:49:54.439
<v Speaker 1>Red Bull is a heavy component of that. Van Deer

1:49:55.160 --> 1:49:59.000
<v Speaker 1>is also in racing, which you know is a crazy thing,

1:49:59.080 --> 1:50:02.880
<v Speaker 1>but you can't make any money. They are coming Garth

1:50:02.920 --> 1:50:05.599
<v Speaker 1>Select will be stocking their skis at a very high

1:50:05.800 --> 1:50:09.760
<v Speaker 1>race point two thousand. What do you think of that.

1:50:11.439 --> 1:50:15.280
<v Speaker 2>Legendary skier body? And I to a lesser extent that

1:50:16.040 --> 1:50:17.599
<v Speaker 2>to the extent of that matters have a great deal

1:50:17.600 --> 1:50:19.320
<v Speaker 2>of respect for that gentleman and what they're taking on

1:50:19.439 --> 1:50:21.920
<v Speaker 2>in red Bull Holy crap, I mean Red Bull Media

1:50:21.960 --> 1:50:25.040
<v Speaker 2>house and what they do. They hunt butterflies with howitzers,

1:50:25.360 --> 1:50:30.240
<v Speaker 2>not shotguns, and they're forced to be contented. We specifically

1:50:30.280 --> 1:50:33.080
<v Speaker 2>are choosing, to your point, not to engage in the

1:50:33.160 --> 1:50:36.599
<v Speaker 2>race community. To get deep into the World Cup level

1:50:36.720 --> 1:50:40.320
<v Speaker 2>racing is a commitment that are that we chose to

1:50:41.160 --> 1:50:44.680
<v Speaker 2>not take on as part of our business model. It

1:50:44.840 --> 1:50:50.960
<v Speaker 2>is a very European centric approach and that's understandable, as

1:50:51.000 --> 1:50:53.400
<v Speaker 2>you well know, alpine ski racing doesn't have nearly the

1:50:53.520 --> 1:50:56.760
<v Speaker 2>traction in the US that it does in Europe. We're

1:50:56.840 --> 1:50:59.519
<v Speaker 2>just I'm going over to sold in here in three weeks,

1:51:00.360 --> 1:51:02.600
<v Speaker 2>we're going to the first World Cup race. Yeah, and

1:51:02.800 --> 1:51:06.120
<v Speaker 2>we're going to launch Peak over the EU and as

1:51:06.160 --> 1:51:09.200
<v Speaker 2>part of the lead up to that EU UK we

1:51:09.320 --> 1:51:12.360
<v Speaker 2>call it and not we, but it's called And in

1:51:12.439 --> 1:51:15.200
<v Speaker 2>this case everybody have interacted. Well, you guys know that

1:51:15.280 --> 1:51:18.439
<v Speaker 2>Marcel is doing stuff right, yeah, and God bless them.

1:51:19.520 --> 1:51:21.400
<v Speaker 2>This comes back to your point earlier. You mentioned that

1:51:21.560 --> 1:51:24.400
<v Speaker 2>there's about nine hundred thousand, two million pairs of skis

1:51:24.400 --> 1:51:27.160
<v Speaker 2>every year in the US. Sold in Europe, it's two

1:51:27.200 --> 1:51:30.920
<v Speaker 2>point two millions total available market, total accessible market, and

1:51:31.320 --> 1:51:35.200
<v Speaker 2>we're taking on very very small components of that. Thoughtfully,

1:51:35.320 --> 1:51:37.280
<v Speaker 2>we think in terms of what we're trying to take on,

1:51:37.400 --> 1:51:40.439
<v Speaker 2>where we're seeking to accomplish with our small but high

1:51:40.479 --> 1:51:43.080
<v Speaker 2>impact company, we think, and in this case a lot

1:51:43.080 --> 1:51:46.800
<v Speaker 2>of respect from oursel he's got great skis. The price point,

1:51:46.880 --> 1:51:50.719
<v Speaker 2>the distribution system, the manner, you know, the simple aspect

1:51:50.800 --> 1:51:53.160
<v Speaker 2>is what's going to be your price point? Establish it

1:51:53.439 --> 1:51:55.960
<v Speaker 2>how's it going to appeal to what consumer? Price is

1:51:56.000 --> 1:52:02.280
<v Speaker 2>as much part of brand as anything, both by pushing

1:52:02.320 --> 1:52:04.320
<v Speaker 2>people away from your product, but also in some cases

1:52:04.360 --> 1:52:07.919
<v Speaker 2>attracting them. Right, folks want to have the most expensive

1:52:07.960 --> 1:52:10.120
<v Speaker 2>ski with gold leaf on the top sheet and all

1:52:10.160 --> 1:52:12.880
<v Speaker 2>that stuff. That's not my deal, it's not bodies deal.

1:52:13.240 --> 1:52:16.320
<v Speaker 2>It's not worry about. And so we have a different

1:52:16.479 --> 1:52:20.000
<v Speaker 2>offering a different value and expressing the quality of the

1:52:20.040 --> 1:52:21.680
<v Speaker 2>skis and skiing experience. So we have a lot of

1:52:21.720 --> 1:52:24.519
<v Speaker 2>respect from ourselves what he's got going on for such family,

1:52:24.640 --> 1:52:27.720
<v Speaker 2>great operation. We're direct to consumer eCOM and.

1:52:28.320 --> 1:52:30.240
<v Speaker 1>Okay, but let's go to the other side. The reason

1:52:30.280 --> 1:52:33.160
<v Speaker 1>I bring Van Deere is it's the only small company

1:52:33.479 --> 1:52:38.320
<v Speaker 1>that seems to be playing on a relatively realistic competing

1:52:38.439 --> 1:52:41.320
<v Speaker 1>with the other brands. Because in addition to that, more

1:52:41.360 --> 1:52:45.240
<v Speaker 1>than ever, they're these boutique companies. Yeah, the biggest, the

1:52:45.320 --> 1:52:48.280
<v Speaker 1>one of the best reputation is Wagner out of tel

1:52:48.320 --> 1:52:51.680
<v Speaker 1>your Ride Yep. The reason I mentioned Wagner is if

1:52:51.760 --> 1:52:53.840
<v Speaker 1>you buy a pair of Wagner skis which are one

1:52:53.920 --> 1:52:56.280
<v Speaker 1>hundred percent custom I mean gore such will sell you

1:52:56.360 --> 1:52:59.880
<v Speaker 1>and off the rack Wagner etc. But generally speaking, you call,

1:53:00.240 --> 1:53:04.120
<v Speaker 1>you talk to them. However, they ask you for your

1:53:04.280 --> 1:53:09.760
<v Speaker 1>boots sole length, right, and they mount the binding. There's

1:53:09.920 --> 1:53:15.920
<v Speaker 1>this point of friction. Okay, So you are selling a

1:53:16.520 --> 1:53:20.920
<v Speaker 1>product that is direct to consumer, but inherently the person

1:53:21.080 --> 1:53:24.559
<v Speaker 1>has to take it to retail to get the skis mounted.

1:53:24.640 --> 1:53:28.080
<v Speaker 1>You sell bindings, whether they buy bindings there or whatever.

1:53:28.439 --> 1:53:32.080
<v Speaker 1>When they get the ski, it is not sciable.

1:53:32.000 --> 1:53:35.479
<v Speaker 2>Right, that is correct? Is there a question there? Yes,

1:53:36.160 --> 1:53:39.120
<v Speaker 2>so I know your question, Bob, I'm.

1:53:38.960 --> 1:53:43.759
<v Speaker 3>Sorry, okay, and also you know do you see yourself? Okay, Wagner,

1:53:43.960 --> 1:53:45.639
<v Speaker 3>let me let me have okay, go, let me address

1:53:45.640 --> 1:53:48.120
<v Speaker 3>your point. I didn't mean to be contankerous on that,

1:53:48.240 --> 1:53:55.040
<v Speaker 3>but your forget the business model that I built did

1:53:55.120 --> 1:53:59.760
<v Speaker 3>not contemplate. I spent thirty years, and I say this

1:53:59.840 --> 1:54:02.960
<v Speaker 3>for effectfully everybody with a JD at some point in

1:54:03.040 --> 1:54:07.439
<v Speaker 3>their academic career, working in a risk intense environment in

1:54:07.479 --> 1:54:12.080
<v Speaker 3>different states, different countries, Colorado, Utah, California, British Columbia. And

1:54:13.360 --> 1:54:15.960
<v Speaker 3>the amount of time, effort, money we put into defense

1:54:17.479 --> 1:54:21.519
<v Speaker 3>against PI attorneys, they circle they have a role. I

1:54:21.760 --> 1:54:25.920
<v Speaker 3>don't deny that. Also, in some cases it'd be.

1:54:25.960 --> 1:54:28.439
<v Speaker 2>Long story but a fair amount of time, effort, money

1:54:28.880 --> 1:54:31.240
<v Speaker 2>gone into that. I built this business model in a

1:54:31.360 --> 1:54:36.320
<v Speaker 2>fashion that did not contemplate taking on that type of liability.

1:54:36.400 --> 1:54:39.160
<v Speaker 2>And the only liability risk that is associated with our

1:54:39.200 --> 1:54:43.919
<v Speaker 2>business in that case exists when we get into mounting bindings.

1:54:44.400 --> 1:54:46.680
<v Speaker 2>And you know as well as I do anybody who's

1:54:46.800 --> 1:54:49.960
<v Speaker 2>a listener rols releases of liability only goes so far.

1:54:50.920 --> 1:54:54.879
<v Speaker 2>You can't disclaim gross negligence, and of course PI attorneys

1:54:54.920 --> 1:54:58.360
<v Speaker 2>feed off of that, and so we've chosen to not

1:54:58.640 --> 1:55:00.520
<v Speaker 2>engage in mounting.

1:55:01.360 --> 1:55:04.600
<v Speaker 1>So quite consciously because of liability issues, you're not doing that,

1:55:04.840 --> 1:55:05.480
<v Speaker 1>that is correct.

1:55:05.880 --> 1:55:11.520
<v Speaker 2>We have built, just like Canyon did, many service oriented

1:55:11.760 --> 1:55:16.440
<v Speaker 2>workarounds for the customer. We consult with people one on

1:55:16.560 --> 1:55:20.880
<v Speaker 2>one if they have interest. You folks live in Chicago, Dallas,

1:55:20.920 --> 1:55:24.560
<v Speaker 2>Fort Worth, they have ski shops and what's become more

1:55:24.680 --> 1:55:27.880
<v Speaker 2>common even through backcountry dot Com, people buy skis without

1:55:27.880 --> 1:55:30.440
<v Speaker 2>bindings and they take those skis down to their ski

1:55:30.520 --> 1:55:32.640
<v Speaker 2>shop in Dallas and they pay the tech seventy five

1:55:32.680 --> 1:55:34.920
<v Speaker 2>dollars to mount these TYROLA binding zone good to go.

1:55:35.520 --> 1:55:39.880
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, we consciously choose this path for those reasons,

1:55:39.920 --> 1:55:43.520
<v Speaker 2>and more so Bob, it's critical, and I can't tell

1:55:43.520 --> 1:55:46.680
<v Speaker 2>you how sincere I am. You come up These phrases

1:55:47.200 --> 1:55:50.000
<v Speaker 2>maybe seen as cliches. Most of the time, we co

1:55:50.160 --> 1:55:53.600
<v Speaker 2>opt them. In this case, this is mine for my life,

1:55:53.680 --> 1:55:57.040
<v Speaker 2>my career, my experiences. I've never met a horse, a mountain,

1:55:57.480 --> 1:55:59.400
<v Speaker 2>a dog, or a pair of skis I don't like.

1:56:00.280 --> 1:56:02.720
<v Speaker 2>And that's more than just respect. I'm not Body Miller,

1:56:02.760 --> 1:56:04.520
<v Speaker 2>I'm not you. I know how to ski, and I

1:56:04.560 --> 1:56:08.800
<v Speaker 2>can ski kind of almost anywhere. How well I do

1:56:08.880 --> 1:56:13.000
<v Speaker 2>it is probably up for grabs. But I say that respectfully.

1:56:13.080 --> 1:56:16.360
<v Speaker 2>I've been on the people that run these companies, the

1:56:16.400 --> 1:56:18.760
<v Speaker 2>people that have built skis, love them all. They're my friends.

1:56:19.400 --> 1:56:21.680
<v Speaker 2>Everything we're doing is respectful but taken in the past.

1:56:21.680 --> 1:56:23.280
<v Speaker 2>But we have a different approach. We have a different

1:56:23.760 --> 1:56:27.360
<v Speaker 2>take on things. The why Body and Andy came out

1:56:27.360 --> 1:56:30.600
<v Speaker 2>of retirement to do this is really predicated upon this

1:56:30.880 --> 1:56:33.200
<v Speaker 2>other statement as phrase of the least important thing about

1:56:33.200 --> 1:56:36.200
<v Speaker 2>our company or the skis. But they're critical, a very

1:56:36.280 --> 1:56:42.160
<v Speaker 2>purposeful my trying to channel Yogi Berra. The skis are

1:56:42.440 --> 1:56:47.040
<v Speaker 2>quite good, quite prideful in what we've developed. The business

1:56:47.120 --> 1:56:50.680
<v Speaker 2>around it is, as I've mentioned, includes taking the noise

1:56:50.720 --> 1:56:53.120
<v Speaker 2>and the people and the pride and the egos out

1:56:53.160 --> 1:56:56.440
<v Speaker 2>of in between Bodie's mind and the skis. But there's

1:56:56.480 --> 1:56:59.600
<v Speaker 2>other things where we have going on with Peak Ski Company,

1:56:59.640 --> 1:57:04.400
<v Speaker 2>including these strategic initiatives, technology integration. We announced Peak Locate.

1:57:04.880 --> 1:57:07.680
<v Speaker 1>Okay, Wall, let's let's leave those. We'll come back to

1:57:07.760 --> 1:57:10.400
<v Speaker 1>this second. But let's just talk about the ski.

1:57:10.560 --> 1:57:10.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

1:57:10.800 --> 1:57:14.959
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So in a perfect world, Yeah, something like Wagner,

1:57:15.320 --> 1:57:19.960
<v Speaker 1>that's boutique Jay Skis, the guy started line. He's got

1:57:19.960 --> 1:57:22.480
<v Speaker 1>a certain market, but he's within his own niche. Sure,

1:57:22.800 --> 1:57:26.120
<v Speaker 1>do you see Peak as a niche company or do

1:57:26.200 --> 1:57:28.720
<v Speaker 1>you want to have enough traction to compete against the

1:57:28.800 --> 1:57:29.839
<v Speaker 1>traditional majors.

1:57:30.960 --> 1:57:33.200
<v Speaker 2>We know for a fact that we have enough traction

1:57:33.360 --> 1:57:37.920
<v Speaker 2>to compete against the majors now at a much lower

1:57:37.960 --> 1:57:41.560
<v Speaker 2>the volume. And I'll put in context. We'll make sell

1:57:41.680 --> 1:57:47.480
<v Speaker 2>probably hundred pairs of skis this year. That's very small

1:57:47.800 --> 1:57:50.880
<v Speaker 2>compared to Fisher, Solomon and the other big brands you've mentioned,

1:57:51.600 --> 1:57:53.280
<v Speaker 2>And keep in mind, and we take on ten thousand

1:57:53.320 --> 1:57:56.800
<v Speaker 2>pairs of skis. Say it was just the US. It's

1:57:56.840 --> 1:57:59.840
<v Speaker 2>not exactly trying to take on the taxi industry like

1:58:00.040 --> 1:58:03.760
<v Speaker 2>Uber did, Right, You know do quick math, and it's

1:58:03.840 --> 1:58:07.760
<v Speaker 2>less than one percent of total available market, So one

1:58:07.840 --> 1:58:09.960
<v Speaker 2>could say, wow, set in the bar pretty low, and

1:58:10.240 --> 1:58:14.760
<v Speaker 2>that'd be a fair statement. So we know we can compete.

1:58:15.360 --> 1:58:18.720
<v Speaker 2>How fast we grow is going to be a very thoughtful,

1:58:18.880 --> 1:58:25.040
<v Speaker 2>conscious effort, guided by a whole bunch of research, response

1:58:25.160 --> 1:58:29.240
<v Speaker 2>and response from the customer. But it's unlikely that with

1:58:29.440 --> 1:58:32.840
<v Speaker 2>wild success that we grow that number beyond twenty thousand

1:58:32.880 --> 1:58:35.640
<v Speaker 2>and three years. And that's because that's not our intent.

1:58:35.840 --> 1:58:40.600
<v Speaker 2>Our intent really relates to the strategic initiatives. So we'll

1:58:40.720 --> 1:58:44.600
<v Speaker 2>continue to develop and make very good skis, and we

1:58:44.720 --> 1:58:47.040
<v Speaker 2>fold in some of the other elements of the strategic

1:58:47.200 --> 1:58:51.839
<v Speaker 2>innovation that we're doing, including locating devices, including advanced materials

1:58:51.880 --> 1:58:55.280
<v Speaker 2>development with Thermoplastics and alike with a group out of Idaho,

1:58:56.560 --> 1:59:00.760
<v Speaker 2>and even the entirely re engineering the manufacturing pers some skis.

1:59:01.280 --> 1:59:03.120
<v Speaker 2>I'm not trying to pivot out of your question, but

1:59:03.680 --> 1:59:06.320
<v Speaker 2>the reason why the intent Boddy and I came out

1:59:06.360 --> 1:59:09.400
<v Speaker 2>of retirement take this on. We've had covered the directed

1:59:09.480 --> 1:59:12.160
<v Speaker 2>consumer model, we've covered the margin, and we're not in

1:59:12.480 --> 1:59:16.960
<v Speaker 2>where we're conscious, we're aware we're not Gordon Gecko. At

1:59:16.960 --> 1:59:18.960
<v Speaker 2>the same time, We did not enter into this business

1:59:19.240 --> 1:59:24.640
<v Speaker 2>with nonprofit in mind. We have we're profit oriented and

1:59:24.680 --> 1:59:28.920
<v Speaker 2>we're doing well. With that said, the primary motivation is

1:59:29.120 --> 1:59:31.640
<v Speaker 2>too is a means to an end to fund and

1:59:31.920 --> 1:59:35.680
<v Speaker 2>get these strategic initiatives going, because that's where we get

1:59:35.880 --> 1:59:38.800
<v Speaker 2>true motivation. That's where I passionalized. And the answer your

1:59:38.880 --> 1:59:40.680
<v Speaker 2>question is again not trying to avoid it. But I

1:59:40.720 --> 1:59:42.520
<v Speaker 2>guess we're a niche. I don't know. I don't want

1:59:42.520 --> 1:59:42.760
<v Speaker 2>to try.

1:59:42.840 --> 1:59:47.640
<v Speaker 1>You know, historically the business was based on hot skis.

1:59:48.400 --> 1:59:50.880
<v Speaker 1>You know, whether it's the sixties the ros and all

1:59:50.960 --> 1:59:54.440
<v Speaker 1>Strato and the DTA meet VR seventeen, whether in the

1:59:55.160 --> 1:59:58.600
<v Speaker 1>nineties it was the Rosie for us, in the turn

1:59:58.640 --> 2:00:02.080
<v Speaker 1>of the century it was Solomon Excreme. Now if you

2:00:02.240 --> 2:00:05.640
<v Speaker 1>go on the hill today, unlike in the other days,

2:00:05.640 --> 2:00:08.400
<v Speaker 1>you will never see one dominant brand, right Whereas it

2:00:08.560 --> 2:00:11.120
<v Speaker 1>used to be a majority of people would have that

2:00:11.280 --> 2:00:15.480
<v Speaker 1>particular thing. But since it is a word of mouth

2:00:15.600 --> 2:00:20.760
<v Speaker 1>business and companies go hot and cold, if you got traction,

2:00:21.520 --> 2:00:24.960
<v Speaker 1>one would think that you'd want to sell seventy thousand

2:00:25.040 --> 2:00:25.920
<v Speaker 1>pairs of skis.

2:00:26.000 --> 2:00:31.160
<v Speaker 2>Sure, and that may take place. I think it's unlikely

2:00:33.640 --> 2:00:35.360
<v Speaker 2>for a bunch of different reasons, and it's hard to

2:00:35.720 --> 2:00:39.800
<v Speaker 2>summarize them as simple to still down points. But that's

2:00:39.840 --> 2:00:41.640
<v Speaker 2>not our goal. Maybe that takes place.

2:00:41.680 --> 2:00:44.120
<v Speaker 1>I mean it is a skier, okay, there's a point

2:00:44.160 --> 2:00:47.480
<v Speaker 1>of pride in the equipment, like in any equipment intensive business,

2:00:47.880 --> 2:00:50.880
<v Speaker 1>auto racing, et cetera. And they are the people who

2:00:50.960 --> 2:00:53.800
<v Speaker 1>buy the zy skis, by the four thousand dollars skis,

2:00:53.800 --> 2:00:55.200
<v Speaker 1>and they want to be the one person on the

2:00:55.320 --> 2:00:58.600
<v Speaker 1>hill who has them. But a lot of skiers at

2:00:58.640 --> 2:01:01.480
<v Speaker 1>the elite level they want to be on what other

2:01:01.600 --> 2:01:05.520
<v Speaker 1>people are on. Yeah, okay, so if they see one

2:01:05.640 --> 2:01:08.720
<v Speaker 1>person out of ten being on peak skis, they say

2:01:08.800 --> 2:01:12.000
<v Speaker 1>that's a boutique skis. Sure, Like in Colorado you'll see

2:01:12.040 --> 2:01:15.000
<v Speaker 1>Wagner skis, which you know on a regular basis, so

2:01:15.160 --> 2:01:18.240
<v Speaker 1>you know they're expensive. This is not a mainstream thing.

2:01:18.720 --> 2:01:21.960
<v Speaker 1>Last year you saw peak skis were I skied not

2:01:22.240 --> 2:01:25.120
<v Speaker 1>that many. But let me just shift gears here a

2:01:25.160 --> 2:01:30.400
<v Speaker 1>little bit. Okay, I skied on one brand of skis

2:01:31.160 --> 2:01:34.320
<v Speaker 1>for the better part of ten years. I got many

2:01:34.520 --> 2:01:37.960
<v Speaker 1>peers of this brand. They used to as you know,

2:01:38.120 --> 2:01:40.440
<v Speaker 1>the cycles used to be brief for every three years.

2:01:40.560 --> 2:01:43.400
<v Speaker 1>The really change of skis. Other than the paint. Now

2:01:43.600 --> 2:01:46.720
<v Speaker 1>some people are going to four years, etc. But the

2:01:46.880 --> 2:01:51.440
<v Speaker 1>last two iterations have been somewhat less satisfying. So I

2:01:51.600 --> 2:01:54.240
<v Speaker 1>decided to go to the shop, the elite shop, and say,

2:01:54.240 --> 2:01:56.760
<v Speaker 1>you know, I'll ski everything you got, okay.

2:01:57.280 --> 2:01:57.360
<v Speaker 2>And.

2:01:59.520 --> 2:02:03.480
<v Speaker 1>I end up buying a brand that I hadn't brought

2:02:03.560 --> 2:02:08.960
<v Speaker 1>for fifty years. Okay, because I bought the K twos.

2:02:08.960 --> 2:02:10.840
<v Speaker 1>I haven't had a K two for fifty years.

2:02:10.960 --> 2:02:11.720
<v Speaker 2>Sweet, Okay.

2:02:12.520 --> 2:02:16.160
<v Speaker 1>Just to go very specifically, everybody's hot on the storm Writer.

2:02:16.760 --> 2:02:21.800
<v Speaker 1>Storm Writer is the very smooth skies. But if you

2:02:21.880 --> 2:02:24.240
<v Speaker 1>want to go in the bumps or whatever, you know,

2:02:24.560 --> 2:02:29.600
<v Speaker 1>it's relatively stiff. It's not that quick. The bona fide

2:02:30.360 --> 2:02:34.040
<v Speaker 1>used to be a complete truck, a joke in my

2:02:34.200 --> 2:02:36.440
<v Speaker 1>but it'll plow through anything that's got no life. They

2:02:36.560 --> 2:02:41.000
<v Speaker 1>made vast improvements. You could own that ski. I would

2:02:41.040 --> 2:02:44.040
<v Speaker 1>have a hard time rationalizing that ski. I'm a person.

2:02:44.200 --> 2:02:44.320
<v Speaker 2>You know.

2:02:44.840 --> 2:02:49.120
<v Speaker 1>These characteristics have changed. But it used to be that

2:02:49.320 --> 2:02:53.160
<v Speaker 1>the French ski was a very lively, fast turning ski,

2:02:53.200 --> 2:02:57.440
<v Speaker 1>whereas the Austrian and German skis were the opposite. There's

2:02:57.480 --> 2:03:00.520
<v Speaker 1>been a trend towards the Austrian and German skis. I

2:03:00.760 --> 2:03:02.960
<v Speaker 1>am more of a friend ski person. I got a

2:03:03.040 --> 2:03:06.080
<v Speaker 1>million pairs of Dina Stars, and I even skied the

2:03:06.160 --> 2:03:08.920
<v Speaker 1>new Dina Stars before I bought them. They turn much

2:03:08.960 --> 2:03:13.160
<v Speaker 1>better than the K twos. Okay, however, they do not

2:03:13.280 --> 2:03:16.080
<v Speaker 1>hold on the herds no, right, you know? And you

2:03:16.160 --> 2:03:18.920
<v Speaker 1>know why right, Well they made them for a year

2:03:19.040 --> 2:03:22.160
<v Speaker 1>without metal, which was a joke. And now if they

2:03:22.200 --> 2:03:25.320
<v Speaker 1>have the exact opposite of K two where the rocket frame,

2:03:25.400 --> 2:03:27.600
<v Speaker 1>where they have less in the front. But I'm interested

2:03:27.680 --> 2:03:29.160
<v Speaker 1>in your theory why they don't hold.

2:03:29.920 --> 2:03:35.040
<v Speaker 2>Torsional rigidity in the waste. It's that simple. Most skis

2:03:35.280 --> 2:03:37.640
<v Speaker 2>have the same trait or characteristic from tip to tail.

2:03:38.960 --> 2:03:43.360
<v Speaker 2>And I got to know that there's in between thirteen

2:03:43.400 --> 2:03:46.560
<v Speaker 2>and fifteen million skiers in the US, and none of

2:03:46.640 --> 2:03:50.560
<v Speaker 2>them are the same, like any industry, like any product,

2:03:51.280 --> 2:03:55.560
<v Speaker 2>and in this case, everybody has different expectations. You have

2:03:56.000 --> 2:03:58.520
<v Speaker 2>a level of experience and knowledge that you can feel

2:03:58.600 --> 2:04:02.600
<v Speaker 2>stuff in skis. Frankly, very few people can You can

2:04:02.680 --> 2:04:05.040
<v Speaker 2>feel it and you can even articulate it, which is

2:04:05.120 --> 2:04:12.720
<v Speaker 2>even fewer people. The Enforcer series great skis.

2:04:12.480 --> 2:04:14.560
<v Speaker 1>Well, well wait, you know I'm on the opposite. That's

2:04:15.560 --> 2:04:18.040
<v Speaker 1>that's a ski that I think people are buying on reputation,

2:04:18.640 --> 2:04:21.280
<v Speaker 1>right if they ski it and they skied other things,

2:04:21.360 --> 2:04:23.320
<v Speaker 1>I think a lot of people on Enforcers would not

2:04:23.400 --> 2:04:24.600
<v Speaker 1>buy that ski, and.

2:04:24.720 --> 2:04:30.200
<v Speaker 2>I, you know, respect your view. There's a lot of

2:04:30.280 --> 2:04:33.480
<v Speaker 2>things we buy, whether it be phones, glasses, you know,

2:04:33.640 --> 2:04:36.040
<v Speaker 2>that are based on what others are saying. Of course,

2:04:37.000 --> 2:04:39.720
<v Speaker 2>in this case, I've been on them, the Enforcer Unlimited.

2:04:39.760 --> 2:04:41.880
<v Speaker 2>I love it. It's a nice lightweight ski that's kind

2:04:41.920 --> 2:04:44.400
<v Speaker 2>of does backcountry pretty well and light light.

2:04:44.480 --> 2:04:47.160
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I'm talking about the traditional ninety four one hundred

2:04:47.200 --> 2:04:49.400
<v Speaker 1>with two layers of metal zach et cetera.

2:04:50.000 --> 2:04:51.920
<v Speaker 2>By the way, remind me to talk about Titanol, which

2:04:51.960 --> 2:04:53.840
<v Speaker 2>I didn't learn about until a year and a half ago.

2:04:53.880 --> 2:04:57.600
<v Speaker 2>It's a funny story on that. So all of your

2:04:57.640 --> 2:05:00.400
<v Speaker 2>points were well made. Everybody has a different perspect actives

2:05:01.360 --> 2:05:03.360
<v Speaker 2>on this and their viewpoints what they're looking to skip.

2:05:03.400 --> 2:05:06.400
<v Speaker 2>But back to the point of the skis. The torsial

2:05:06.520 --> 2:05:09.880
<v Speaker 2>legidity is something you can find and get quickly, so

2:05:10.760 --> 2:05:12.480
<v Speaker 2>you'll hear, oh, they're really great skis. We got to

2:05:12.520 --> 2:05:14.600
<v Speaker 2>really stand on them, right. You hear that constantly for

2:05:14.720 --> 2:05:17.440
<v Speaker 2>the thirty years over thirty years or it's a really

2:05:17.520 --> 2:05:21.320
<v Speaker 2>gumby soft powder ski, right, why and so get that

2:05:21.440 --> 2:05:23.480
<v Speaker 2>on hard pack good luck, because it's a it's a

2:05:23.560 --> 2:05:30.320
<v Speaker 2>noodle right torsally not very rigid. Everybody has different purposes.

2:05:30.880 --> 2:05:33.400
<v Speaker 2>You're used to be an East Coast guy a long

2:05:33.480 --> 2:05:35.600
<v Speaker 2>time ago, but now you're kind of Sierra's guy, right,

2:05:35.640 --> 2:05:37.280
<v Speaker 2>so you're probably gonna wider underfoot ski.

2:05:37.480 --> 2:05:39.240
<v Speaker 1>I got a lot of skis. I got my seventy

2:05:39.280 --> 2:05:41.960
<v Speaker 1>two is my eighty six billion in the nineties, got

2:05:42.000 --> 2:05:44.000
<v Speaker 1>my one aweight. It's got my one eighteens it. You've

2:05:44.000 --> 2:05:45.640
<v Speaker 1>got to have the right tool for the right day.

2:05:45.960 --> 2:05:50.600
<v Speaker 2>For many reasons. You're way more like I saw ed

2:05:51.040 --> 2:05:53.280
<v Speaker 2>Vetter and this guy's over the weekend and I just

2:05:53.360 --> 2:05:55.760
<v Speaker 2>saw a Guitarists used to be a little bit better

2:05:55.760 --> 2:05:58.640
<v Speaker 2>than I am nowadays, but I guitar envy. I mean,

2:05:58.680 --> 2:06:01.360
<v Speaker 2>I saw some Fender strap being played. I'm like, I

2:06:01.400 --> 2:06:04.640
<v Speaker 2>want that guitar, that guitar, that guitar. I'm a less Paul.

2:06:04.760 --> 2:06:07.080
<v Speaker 2>I'm a Gibson less Paul. Custom guy. Just loved this

2:06:07.320 --> 2:06:09.240
<v Speaker 2>sound that came out of Dickey Betts. When I was young.

2:06:09.320 --> 2:06:11.360
<v Speaker 2>It was like, I want that sound, that about a

2:06:11.360 --> 2:06:13.400
<v Speaker 2>sixty three Fender basement amp to go with it. It's

2:06:13.480 --> 2:06:15.680
<v Speaker 2>like three quarters or at least a quarter of the

2:06:15.720 --> 2:06:18.120
<v Speaker 2>great songs have been written on the Fender nineteen fifty

2:06:18.240 --> 2:06:21.920
<v Speaker 2>nine Gibson Less Paul custom plugged into a Fenders right

2:06:22.040 --> 2:06:26.160
<v Speaker 2>basement amp. I want that sound right, Maybe you or

2:06:26.280 --> 2:06:28.880
<v Speaker 2>like that. I want that out of performance of a

2:06:28.920 --> 2:06:31.800
<v Speaker 2>ski and still plenty of room for people want to

2:06:31.840 --> 2:06:35.360
<v Speaker 2>play strats or telecasters or less Paul's or you name it.

2:06:35.360 --> 2:06:37.440
<v Speaker 2>It's the way I see it, and a bit of

2:06:37.480 --> 2:06:39.440
<v Speaker 2>a reach on an analog, but I hope you appreciate

2:06:39.480 --> 2:06:42.040
<v Speaker 2>the point of the effort there. Point being is back

2:06:42.120 --> 2:06:46.760
<v Speaker 2>to the skis. It's not magic, but the key hole

2:06:46.920 --> 2:06:49.720
<v Speaker 2>allows the best of both worlds. It's a little bit

2:06:49.720 --> 2:06:53.640
<v Speaker 2>of a bipolar situation, and you'll appreciate this. It's obviously

2:06:53.720 --> 2:06:56.360
<v Speaker 2>a podcast so Kim visually, but the front third of

2:06:56.400 --> 2:06:58.960
<v Speaker 2>the ski, from the tip to the unlike other skis,

2:06:59.000 --> 2:07:01.280
<v Speaker 2>they have the same trait orcharacteristic from tip to tail.

2:07:01.880 --> 2:07:04.320
<v Speaker 2>It's soft and forgiving on the front third, and so

2:07:04.440 --> 2:07:10.760
<v Speaker 2>turn initiation is shockingly there and easy. And I remember

2:07:10.760 --> 2:07:13.040
<v Speaker 2>the first time being on the prototypes December two, two

2:07:13.160 --> 2:07:16.360
<v Speaker 2>years ago and I noticed it. I'm not as good

2:07:16.360 --> 2:07:18.040
<v Speaker 2>as ski as you were, body, but I can ski

2:07:18.120 --> 2:07:20.760
<v Speaker 2>in a holy crap. I mean this the first time

2:07:20.840 --> 2:07:24.280
<v Speaker 2>on these skis, the turn initiation, this case eighty eighths

2:07:24.280 --> 2:07:26.480
<v Speaker 2>of the first boards out. I couldn't believe. It's like,

2:07:26.600 --> 2:07:29.120
<v Speaker 2>this makes no sense, and I was waiting for it

2:07:29.200 --> 2:07:31.240
<v Speaker 2>to be gumby once I loaded it up, got into

2:07:31.280 --> 2:07:34.960
<v Speaker 2>a turn, but because soft on the front turn initiation.

2:07:35.120 --> 2:07:37.520
<v Speaker 2>But then all of this is not by accident. This

2:07:37.640 --> 2:07:40.080
<v Speaker 2>is stuff that does not happen by accident. Once you

2:07:40.120 --> 2:07:43.160
<v Speaker 2>start loading up the ski, all of the weight pressure

2:07:43.160 --> 2:07:46.160
<v Speaker 2>of the physics pull pull everything to the midwaist of

2:07:46.200 --> 2:07:49.040
<v Speaker 2>the ski, and now it's torsionally rigid underfoot. And that's

2:07:49.120 --> 2:07:55.800
<v Speaker 2>why you have this Unlike other ski designs, the turn

2:07:55.880 --> 2:07:58.120
<v Speaker 2>initiations there, whether it be the eighty eighths or the

2:07:58.200 --> 2:08:00.920
<v Speaker 2>one tens, but then it's Stiffen's up on her foot

2:08:00.960 --> 2:08:03.320
<v Speaker 2>once you loaded up, and it's tortially rigid underfoot, and

2:08:03.320 --> 2:08:04.960
<v Speaker 2>that's why it holds me.

2:08:05.080 --> 2:08:07.040
<v Speaker 1>Let me more to than that, But let me just

2:08:07.160 --> 2:08:10.160
<v Speaker 1>stop here on the point that I was making so

2:08:11.280 --> 2:08:15.280
<v Speaker 1>in veil my friend at a pair of the peaks,

2:08:15.760 --> 2:08:18.480
<v Speaker 1>he thought that the guy gave in to him was

2:08:18.480 --> 2:08:22.520
<v Speaker 1>an investor lived in the let's that's irrelevant. Sure, but

2:08:22.720 --> 2:08:25.280
<v Speaker 1>he said, okay, you know, go out on him. But

2:08:25.400 --> 2:08:27.080
<v Speaker 1>I'm doing my own thing. And then he said, O,

2:08:27.120 --> 2:08:29.520
<v Speaker 1>I passed them to somebody at Beaver Creek, so I

2:08:29.640 --> 2:08:33.720
<v Speaker 1>didn't get on them. Let's be point blank sure, okay,

2:08:34.040 --> 2:08:37.960
<v Speaker 1>bring it. In the ski industry, the people who were

2:08:38.000 --> 2:08:45.360
<v Speaker 1>in the traditional retail business, they are down on peak

2:08:45.520 --> 2:08:49.360
<v Speaker 1>for a number of reasons. Bodies jumping from company to company,

2:08:50.440 --> 2:08:53.920
<v Speaker 1>and two they don't sell them and they want to

2:08:54.000 --> 2:08:57.120
<v Speaker 1>do retail. Then there are some elite places they want

2:08:57.160 --> 2:08:59.320
<v Speaker 1>to sell things that are not footballed. But let's not

2:08:59.520 --> 2:09:03.440
<v Speaker 1>get into that, okay. So the reason I brought up

2:09:03.480 --> 2:09:06.600
<v Speaker 1>the demo of the skis, I could have gotten anything

2:09:07.480 --> 2:09:12.040
<v Speaker 1>at below wholesale, and I said, okay, I'm skiing so much,

2:09:12.880 --> 2:09:16.280
<v Speaker 1>let me go demo and whatever. And I ended up

2:09:16.320 --> 2:09:19.960
<v Speaker 1>buying what I never would have bought, Okay, which those

2:09:20.080 --> 2:09:23.320
<v Speaker 1>K twos. I bought a couple of pairs, the ninety nine.

2:09:23.640 --> 2:09:26.400
<v Speaker 1>The one aweight is an unbelievable ski that's better than

2:09:26.520 --> 2:09:31.760
<v Speaker 1>the ninety nine. But whatever, My point being, this is

2:09:31.840 --> 2:09:35.080
<v Speaker 1>a business of people who are buying traditional, top of

2:09:35.080 --> 2:09:37.280
<v Speaker 1>the line skis. I'm not talking about custom skis. I'm

2:09:37.280 --> 2:09:40.240
<v Speaker 1>not talking about two thousand dollars skis. Skis at usually

2:09:40.440 --> 2:09:44.560
<v Speaker 1>MSRPs like seven ninety nine. An incredible percentage of those

2:09:44.600 --> 2:09:48.320
<v Speaker 1>people want to ski on that ski before they buy it,

2:09:48.600 --> 2:09:52.800
<v Speaker 1>sure now more than ever. But I can't ski on

2:09:52.880 --> 2:09:56.800
<v Speaker 1>the peak. So what do you have to say that

2:09:56.920 --> 2:09:59.880
<v Speaker 1>as peak? I mean I basically have to blindly buy it.

2:10:00.280 --> 2:10:03.680
<v Speaker 2>Mm hmm blindly and then if you don't like them

2:10:03.720 --> 2:10:06.360
<v Speaker 2>after thirty days urn and no questions asked. Now here's

2:10:06.400 --> 2:10:11.320
<v Speaker 2>the point points well made. The key is traditional in

2:10:11.440 --> 2:10:15.360
<v Speaker 2>ski industry. We are not traditional, and we're really in

2:10:15.480 --> 2:10:18.280
<v Speaker 2>the industry by default, but we just don't see it

2:10:18.360 --> 2:10:22.880
<v Speaker 2>that way. In this case, Canyon bikes have the same exactly.

2:10:23.120 --> 2:10:24.960
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I know canyon bikes, but if I were to

2:10:25.040 --> 2:10:27.720
<v Speaker 1>bike and bike, I don't know. When it comes to

2:10:27.840 --> 2:10:30.280
<v Speaker 1>my door, does it have to be assembled?

2:10:30.520 --> 2:10:30.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah?

2:10:31.120 --> 2:10:32.120
<v Speaker 1>And who assembles it.

2:10:32.320 --> 2:10:34.160
<v Speaker 2>That you can if you don't know how to gear

2:10:34.240 --> 2:10:37.040
<v Speaker 2>it and wrench it. You they have a company that

2:10:37.080 --> 2:10:40.400
<v Speaker 2>comes helps you put it together. But it's pretty pretty good.

2:10:40.760 --> 2:10:42.320
<v Speaker 2>But let me do let me just so I know,

2:10:42.360 --> 2:10:46.400
<v Speaker 2>because I'm interested. So someone comes to your door like

2:10:46.560 --> 2:10:48.920
<v Speaker 2>Wilson Speakers, and you pay them one hundred dollars and

2:10:49.000 --> 2:10:52.240
<v Speaker 2>they you're not bringing it to a retail shop, right, Okay,

2:10:52.360 --> 2:10:54.840
<v Speaker 2>that is correct, But the point being is go to

2:10:54.920 --> 2:10:57.360
<v Speaker 2>a ski shop, go to a bike shop. That's the analog.

2:10:58.040 --> 2:11:00.960
<v Speaker 2>What do people do at the bike shop. They get

2:11:01.000 --> 2:11:02.800
<v Speaker 2>on that bike and they ride around the parking lot,

2:11:03.080 --> 2:11:05.560
<v Speaker 2>turn it and say, oh, buy it or not. But

2:11:05.800 --> 2:11:08.000
<v Speaker 2>up into that point, it's been shaped and formed by

2:11:08.600 --> 2:11:10.880
<v Speaker 2>what the Tour de France guys are on, what everybody

2:11:10.880 --> 2:11:13.840
<v Speaker 2>else is saying. They are local bike club guys, you

2:11:13.920 --> 2:11:16.920
<v Speaker 2>name strap, all kinds of stuff. Much the same as

2:11:17.040 --> 2:11:19.200
<v Speaker 2>if you were to demo a pair of peaks, you

2:11:19.240 --> 2:11:21.520
<v Speaker 2>would trade your driver's license at at ten by ten

2:11:21.640 --> 2:11:24.320
<v Speaker 2>ten and get ninety minutes on that ski. Now, a

2:11:24.360 --> 2:11:28.200
<v Speaker 2>guy like you could probably probably have a good chance of,

2:11:28.280 --> 2:11:30.400
<v Speaker 2>no matter what the conditions are in that ninety minutes,

2:11:30.440 --> 2:11:31.800
<v Speaker 2>figure out that ski pretty quickly.

2:11:32.160 --> 2:11:34.360
<v Speaker 1>I think one or two runs I found is usually enough.

2:11:34.480 --> 2:11:37.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I'm going to point out that you are atypical.

2:11:37.640 --> 2:11:38.280
<v Speaker 2>Not to believe me.

2:11:38.360 --> 2:11:40.760
<v Speaker 1>I know most people this has been a joke for

2:11:40.880 --> 2:11:44.080
<v Speaker 1>sixty years. They paid them they love them. You're right,

2:11:44.120 --> 2:11:46.920
<v Speaker 1>they all do you like those skis? You never get

2:11:47.000 --> 2:11:48.600
<v Speaker 1>someone who says, hey, they're not that good.

2:11:49.520 --> 2:11:55.040
<v Speaker 2>Exactly the ability to demo skis. We bludgeon that barrier

2:11:55.440 --> 2:11:59.160
<v Speaker 2>by saying, no questions asked, thirty days, give us your money,

2:11:59.280 --> 2:12:01.040
<v Speaker 2>send them back, no questions asked, We'll pay for the

2:12:01.080 --> 2:12:04.760
<v Speaker 2>shipping back. All learned by from Canyon in this case scam.

2:12:04.960 --> 2:12:07.760
<v Speaker 2>Thirty days. You can put sixteen different pair of bindings

2:12:07.760 --> 2:12:09.960
<v Speaker 2>on them. You can skim every minute of every day

2:12:10.040 --> 2:12:13.280
<v Speaker 2>for those thirty in all kinds of conditions. You choose

2:12:13.360 --> 2:12:15.240
<v Speaker 2>where and how and when you ski those, send them

2:12:15.280 --> 2:12:16.720
<v Speaker 2>back to us. Done deal.

2:12:16.880 --> 2:12:18.520
<v Speaker 1>So what percentage of people send them back?

2:12:18.840 --> 2:12:21.480
<v Speaker 2>Two point eight percent? Do you want to know? Why?

2:12:22.200 --> 2:12:22.760
<v Speaker 1>Okay? Why?

2:12:23.520 --> 2:12:26.240
<v Speaker 2>Mostly because they think they wanted a wider underfoot or

2:12:26.360 --> 2:12:33.000
<v Speaker 2>narrower underfoot model. Very I think maybe a granted we're small, right,

2:12:33.160 --> 2:12:37.120
<v Speaker 2>but maybe for thirty forty pair of skis came back

2:12:37.160 --> 2:12:39.200
<v Speaker 2>because they just didn't like them. That's cool, and we

2:12:39.320 --> 2:12:40.200
<v Speaker 2>learned from those folks.

2:12:41.080 --> 2:12:42.960
<v Speaker 1>Okay, but let's say I was one of those people.

2:12:43.000 --> 2:12:46.440
<v Speaker 1>I returned the skis. Yeah, you're going to say, absolutely,

2:12:46.480 --> 2:12:48.280
<v Speaker 1>give them the money back. But Why what am I

2:12:48.360 --> 2:12:49.880
<v Speaker 1>going to find out? If I turn you? Am I

2:12:49.920 --> 2:12:52.120
<v Speaker 1>going to get any reluctance? You're gonna give me credit

2:12:52.200 --> 2:12:53.360
<v Speaker 1>on my credit card? Immediately?

2:12:53.560 --> 2:12:57.360
<v Speaker 2>Yes, credit? The latter of this two a credit card credit.

2:12:57.440 --> 2:12:59.080
<v Speaker 1>What did you learn from the people who didn't want

2:12:59.120 --> 2:12:59.560
<v Speaker 1>them at all?

2:13:00.520 --> 2:13:02.200
<v Speaker 2>They didn't like how they turn them. Many of them

2:13:02.240 --> 2:13:05.880
<v Speaker 2>were very very high performance skiers, former ski racers. Many

2:13:05.920 --> 2:13:08.760
<v Speaker 2>I couldn't tell you empirically, but the vast majority were

2:13:09.720 --> 2:13:13.960
<v Speaker 2>high end skiers racers really wanting something more with a

2:13:14.120 --> 2:13:18.040
<v Speaker 2>consistent trait of tip to tail. They wanted torsal rigidity

2:13:18.080 --> 2:13:21.280
<v Speaker 2>all the way through or something else. But in some

2:13:21.400 --> 2:13:23.800
<v Speaker 2>cases they weren't too sure how to articulate. Interestingly, I

2:13:23.880 --> 2:13:26.640
<v Speaker 2>found that folks can know they like or don't like

2:13:26.680 --> 2:13:29.080
<v Speaker 2>a ski, but it's also tough for them to articulate.

2:13:29.160 --> 2:13:32.920
<v Speaker 2>Why so that bike shop thing? But right right right,

2:13:33.040 --> 2:13:36.720
<v Speaker 2>going to a bike into store, what's the first thing

2:13:36.720 --> 2:13:39.680
<v Speaker 2>that happens to go to a ski shop? Tac too?

2:13:39.680 --> 2:13:42.440
<v Speaker 2>A guy, you have some perspective shaped by the outside

2:13:42.480 --> 2:13:44.680
<v Speaker 2>magazine gear guy that just came out, and what do

2:13:44.720 --> 2:13:46.880
<v Speaker 2>they do? They grab pair of skis and they bend them. Right,

2:13:47.440 --> 2:13:49.560
<v Speaker 2>guy like you knows how what he's feeling. Guy like

2:13:49.640 --> 2:13:53.240
<v Speaker 2>body knows. Of the fifteen million skiers in this country,

2:13:53.360 --> 2:13:56.280
<v Speaker 2>about fourteen point nine million have no idea what they're

2:13:56.280 --> 2:13:57.520
<v Speaker 2>feeling when they bend those skis.

2:13:57.880 --> 2:14:00.880
<v Speaker 1>I would say, you're right, so.

2:14:02.520 --> 2:14:05.400
<v Speaker 2>Respectfully, of all the great ski shops and ski technicians

2:14:05.440 --> 2:14:08.520
<v Speaker 2>and the people that sell skis, how much value they

2:14:08.600 --> 2:14:12.760
<v Speaker 2>add in that transaction is varying. In our case, we

2:14:12.840 --> 2:14:14.760
<v Speaker 2>have a straight up direct line of communication with the

2:14:14.800 --> 2:14:19.000
<v Speaker 2>customer prospects as well as customers. And you know, we

2:14:19.080 --> 2:14:21.480
<v Speaker 2>contend that ride and bike around a parking lot like canyon,

2:14:21.840 --> 2:14:24.120
<v Speaker 2>not doing it, getting on the skis for third days,

2:14:24.840 --> 2:14:28.560
<v Speaker 2>bang them, test them, drive them, send them back to them.

2:14:28.600 --> 2:14:30.400
<v Speaker 2>If you don't like us. It's that simple. It's a

2:14:30.560 --> 2:14:34.160
<v Speaker 2>pretty It's kind of Nordstroms has that deal from back

2:14:34.200 --> 2:14:37.000
<v Speaker 2>in the nineties. Remember when Nordstroms had that classic service

2:14:37.040 --> 2:14:39.360
<v Speaker 2>story of guy comes back with four pairs of tire

2:14:39.360 --> 2:14:41.360
<v Speaker 2>a four sets for tires and says, I want to

2:14:41.360 --> 2:14:44.680
<v Speaker 2>return them. Nor from person said sure, Well, then the

2:14:44.760 --> 2:14:47.320
<v Speaker 2>course the services story is that they don't sell tires.

2:14:47.800 --> 2:14:50.840
<v Speaker 2>In this case, we're in that same mode because why

2:14:50.960 --> 2:14:54.400
<v Speaker 2>because in this case it's a mitigan against the business

2:14:54.440 --> 2:14:57.320
<v Speaker 2>planning process, going to call it B school type of

2:14:57.320 --> 2:15:01.120
<v Speaker 2>course stuff. It's a mitigan against the resistance, the consumer resistance,

2:15:01.160 --> 2:15:03.440
<v Speaker 2>because there's a history of people buying skis a certain

2:15:03.520 --> 2:15:05.880
<v Speaker 2>way and doing them sort of including demo tents. The

2:15:05.960 --> 2:15:10.600
<v Speaker 2>scariest say, we get that, we're we're acknowledging the past.

2:15:10.640 --> 2:15:13.280
<v Speaker 2>At the same time, we have some mitigants to help

2:15:13.320 --> 2:15:17.360
<v Speaker 2>people get to and through that. And thankfully that's going.

2:15:17.520 --> 2:15:18.280
<v Speaker 2>It's going pretty well.

2:15:18.400 --> 2:15:20.760
<v Speaker 1>Okay, if you go on your websites, you were selling

2:15:20.880 --> 2:15:25.240
<v Speaker 1>one brand of binding. Look now the conventional price, you

2:15:25.320 --> 2:15:28.400
<v Speaker 1>can get them from anywhere. Yeah, why Look, why sell

2:15:28.480 --> 2:15:29.240
<v Speaker 1>bindings at all?

2:15:29.320 --> 2:15:33.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we are agnostic to bindings people have. And maybe

2:15:33.920 --> 2:15:36.240
<v Speaker 2>I'm applying bindings to religion. Maybe I shouldn't do that,

2:15:36.320 --> 2:15:38.840
<v Speaker 2>But there are people that are tied to a certain

2:15:38.880 --> 2:15:41.360
<v Speaker 2>style or type of binding, right, And there's the whole

2:15:41.400 --> 2:15:45.080
<v Speaker 2>thing of Fundamentally, folks that are skiers see bindings as

2:15:45.120 --> 2:15:48.000
<v Speaker 2>either retention devices or release devices. Right, a guy like you,

2:15:48.160 --> 2:15:49.120
<v Speaker 2>maybe it's more retention.

2:15:49.320 --> 2:15:51.400
<v Speaker 1>Oh, believe me, I've only been hurt with the bindings

2:15:51.440 --> 2:15:52.680
<v Speaker 1>of released exactly.

2:15:53.040 --> 2:15:54.400
<v Speaker 2>And I learned that when I was skiing over in

2:15:54.440 --> 2:15:57.520
<v Speaker 2>Japan with a guy who's really good skier, and he

2:15:57.640 --> 2:15:59.440
<v Speaker 2>used to take those old Look bindings and take the

2:15:59.520 --> 2:16:01.680
<v Speaker 2>coil out, take a section of ski pole and put

2:16:01.720 --> 2:16:03.280
<v Speaker 2>it in there, and says, I just want the ski

2:16:03.440 --> 2:16:07.120
<v Speaker 2>to stay on my feet. Right, Not that many people

2:16:07.240 --> 2:16:10.440
<v Speaker 2>think that way. Right Back to bindings in this case,

2:16:10.920 --> 2:16:14.120
<v Speaker 2>in the absence of a preference, we sell Look. Well,

2:16:14.360 --> 2:16:18.280
<v Speaker 2>we'll also be selling ATK bindings here shortly and other bindings.

2:16:18.520 --> 2:16:20.400
<v Speaker 2>So first year out of the gates, yeah, we Look

2:16:20.440 --> 2:16:21.520
<v Speaker 2>in the absence of a you know.

2:16:21.560 --> 2:16:22.280
<v Speaker 1>I'm a Look guy.

2:16:22.520 --> 2:16:25.520
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, okay, so I have to ask why Look.

2:16:26.960 --> 2:16:31.720
<v Speaker 2>Simply put, how they're made. They're very durable. Number two,

2:16:32.440 --> 2:16:35.520
<v Speaker 2>the Look pivot binding in particular has a small bass

2:16:35.560 --> 2:16:38.240
<v Speaker 2>plate on the toe, small bass plate on the heel

2:16:38.400 --> 2:16:42.440
<v Speaker 2>on a relative basis, and because of that it doesn't

2:16:42.480 --> 2:16:45.480
<v Speaker 2>impinge the flex of the ski as much. Is are

2:16:45.560 --> 2:16:49.480
<v Speaker 2>two basic answers. It just depends on what folks like.

2:16:49.600 --> 2:16:51.560
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you know, I buy all those things. I'm a

2:16:51.600 --> 2:16:53.280
<v Speaker 1>little guy, and a funny thing. Just to go back,

2:16:53.520 --> 2:16:55.560
<v Speaker 1>I had a switch from Look in the seventies because

2:16:55.560 --> 2:16:59.320
<v Speaker 1>they didn't have shock absorption forward and backward, which of

2:16:59.360 --> 2:17:01.760
<v Speaker 1>course they have now Now it's the freestyle of dining.

2:17:01.800 --> 2:17:05.200
<v Speaker 1>Your true used to be the Solomon. Okay, so let's

2:17:05.240 --> 2:17:08.080
<v Speaker 1>get into the skis. You sell an eighty eight, sell

2:17:08.120 --> 2:17:09.920
<v Speaker 1>a ninety eight, sell a one o four, you sell

2:17:09.959 --> 2:17:14.160
<v Speaker 1>a one ten. Yep, someone comes in also, although you

2:17:14.240 --> 2:17:16.240
<v Speaker 1>saw a one seventy eight, you have to solo one

2:17:16.360 --> 2:17:18.360
<v Speaker 1>sixty eight instead of a one to seventy, and you

2:17:18.480 --> 2:17:20.640
<v Speaker 1>go up to one ninety, which a lot of people don't.

2:17:21.400 --> 2:17:24.360
<v Speaker 1>Can someone call and say, hey, give me advice which

2:17:24.400 --> 2:17:24.879
<v Speaker 1>one to buy?

2:17:25.120 --> 2:17:25.280
<v Speaker 2>Yes?

2:17:26.160 --> 2:17:29.200
<v Speaker 1>And what are you going to say relative to those skis?

2:17:29.720 --> 2:17:32.120
<v Speaker 2>First thing we do is go through the good old

2:17:32.240 --> 2:17:35.360
<v Speaker 2>questions of where do you ski? What are the primary conditions?

2:17:35.800 --> 2:17:37.360
<v Speaker 2>Give us a mountain, where do you like to ski

2:17:37.480 --> 2:17:39.840
<v Speaker 2>most of the time? What are the conditions you abhor

2:17:40.200 --> 2:17:42.760
<v Speaker 2>and avoid? What are the conditions you thrive in, What

2:17:42.879 --> 2:17:47.640
<v Speaker 2>are the conditions you find yourself in between, background, history, frequency,

2:17:47.879 --> 2:17:50.760
<v Speaker 2>all those kind of things, and what are the skis

2:17:50.800 --> 2:17:52.840
<v Speaker 2>you're on? First thing, I do this all the time.

2:17:52.920 --> 2:17:54.879
<v Speaker 2>We're a small company with twenty one people up there

2:17:54.920 --> 2:17:57.520
<v Speaker 2>in Bozeman, Montana, where we're headquartered, and I end up

2:17:57.560 --> 2:18:01.280
<v Speaker 2>on conversations all the time, which I love our perspective

2:18:01.320 --> 2:18:03.600
<v Speaker 2>customers and a lot of business. What are you skiing

2:18:03.680 --> 2:18:06.160
<v Speaker 2>on right now? What ski do you dig on? What

2:18:06.240 --> 2:18:09.080
<v Speaker 2>are the skis do you not like? And that by

2:18:09.120 --> 2:18:12.119
<v Speaker 2>the time we get through those questions in conversation, it's

2:18:12.160 --> 2:18:14.600
<v Speaker 2>not like we're telephone what it call them TSRs from

2:18:14.600 --> 2:18:18.360
<v Speaker 2>the nineties. You know, we're after the scripted kind of

2:18:18.640 --> 2:18:20.920
<v Speaker 2>flow chart of stuff. It's more just conversation with the

2:18:20.959 --> 2:18:24.680
<v Speaker 2>folks and we can help figure out pretty quickly what

2:18:24.760 --> 2:18:27.480
<v Speaker 2>they're looking for in terms of with underfoot and then length.

2:18:28.080 --> 2:18:30.400
<v Speaker 2>One thing about the peak skis is they tend to

2:18:30.600 --> 2:18:33.280
<v Speaker 2>It's not just the keyhole, but because the other elements

2:18:33.360 --> 2:18:38.240
<v Speaker 2>of the geometry absence relative apps and subsidecut comparatively for

2:18:38.360 --> 2:18:40.480
<v Speaker 2>the kind of turns you can pull off in these

2:18:40.560 --> 2:18:43.720
<v Speaker 2>deals on these skis, but also the rise on the front.

2:18:43.840 --> 2:18:46.240
<v Speaker 2>It's not a full rocker, but it's a rise. They

2:18:46.320 --> 2:18:48.960
<v Speaker 2>tend to ski about four to five centimeters shorter the

2:18:49.040 --> 2:18:52.680
<v Speaker 2>most conventional skis. I think it's fair to say these

2:18:52.720 --> 2:18:55.720
<v Speaker 2>are not conventional skis because the key hole and more

2:18:56.879 --> 2:18:59.920
<v Speaker 2>so we take that into account. But we will get

2:19:00.200 --> 2:19:02.360
<v Speaker 2>a conversation with folks because we know our skis and

2:19:02.440 --> 2:19:04.360
<v Speaker 2>we'd like to know more about what they're looking for,

2:19:04.800 --> 2:19:06.240
<v Speaker 2>and then we match them and we do it with

2:19:06.360 --> 2:19:08.640
<v Speaker 2>human beings, not with AI, not with bots.

2:19:08.840 --> 2:19:12.000
<v Speaker 1>Okay, let's go to the strategic initiatives. One is the

2:19:12.480 --> 2:19:16.600
<v Speaker 1>UH homing device, the location device. Tell us about that.

2:19:18.320 --> 2:19:22.039
<v Speaker 2>So we had gosh when I got back it before

2:19:22.080 --> 2:19:24.240
<v Speaker 2>Saudi Arabia, I think it was I was training for

2:19:24.320 --> 2:19:27.280
<v Speaker 2>Denali and I had gotten up. This is back when

2:19:27.320 --> 2:19:29.040
<v Speaker 2>I was talking to Bodie doing a whole bunch of

2:19:29.040 --> 2:19:32.520
<v Speaker 2>different stuff, and I had this has shocked some of

2:19:32.560 --> 2:19:34.880
<v Speaker 2>my good friends from the business and you maybe I'd

2:19:34.920 --> 2:19:38.040
<v Speaker 2>skied fifty sixty days but had not ridden a chairlift

2:19:38.080 --> 2:19:40.560
<v Speaker 2>once because I was training for Denali. A pack on

2:19:40.680 --> 2:19:42.520
<v Speaker 2>my back, slide on my back, and it's a lot

2:19:42.560 --> 2:19:44.720
<v Speaker 2>of boun country work. Loved it. I had a wild

2:19:44.760 --> 2:19:48.440
<v Speaker 2>here one day and Strap literally duct taped some Apple

2:19:48.480 --> 2:19:50.640
<v Speaker 2>layer tags onto my skis. I just want to see

2:19:50.840 --> 2:19:54.680
<v Speaker 2>what would happen. Quickly found out the dark sides, the

2:19:54.800 --> 2:19:58.640
<v Speaker 2>blind spots of the Apple air tag, form factor, limitations,

2:19:58.720 --> 2:20:01.040
<v Speaker 2>battery life and all that kind of stuff. But then

2:20:01.120 --> 2:20:04.080
<v Speaker 2>bookmarked that and said, still there's something here right in

2:20:04.200 --> 2:20:08.960
<v Speaker 2>terms of being able to find your skis come fast forward.

2:20:09.080 --> 2:20:11.600
<v Speaker 2>So one of the three strategic initiatives prior to our

2:20:11.600 --> 2:20:15.120
<v Speaker 2>announcement of Peak Locate was technology integration. We think there's

2:20:15.120 --> 2:20:17.480
<v Speaker 2>a better way to integrate technology in a real way,

2:20:17.760 --> 2:20:20.120
<v Speaker 2>not just in a whiz bang zippity due to a

2:20:20.640 --> 2:20:23.960
<v Speaker 2>led light crap way right, true innovation that does stuff.

2:20:24.800 --> 2:20:28.280
<v Speaker 2>We found a development partner called Pebbleby and they have

2:20:28.320 --> 2:20:32.400
<v Speaker 2>a unique position in that they have a locating tracking

2:20:32.600 --> 2:20:35.400
<v Speaker 2>capability that worked with both Apple iOS as well as

2:20:35.480 --> 2:20:39.880
<v Speaker 2>Android platform Google Android platforms. Unique nobody else can do that.

2:20:41.160 --> 2:20:46.200
<v Speaker 2>It's also a device that's externally rechargeable. With it in

2:20:46.280 --> 2:20:49.760
<v Speaker 2>the Apple world is the Apple mag Say technology. It's

2:20:49.760 --> 2:20:55.000
<v Speaker 2>called technically a g charger and the battery life is

2:20:55.200 --> 2:20:58.000
<v Speaker 2>three months right out of gates. There's more to it,

2:20:58.160 --> 2:21:00.880
<v Speaker 2>but then we were able to work with us and

2:21:00.920 --> 2:21:03.640
<v Speaker 2>customize in the form factor, make it very small, very thin.

2:21:03.720 --> 2:21:07.240
<v Speaker 2>It's roughly gosh. I think it's a neighborhood of eight

2:21:08.200 --> 2:21:13.640
<v Speaker 2>millimeters by eleven millimeters and about the thickness of a

2:21:13.680 --> 2:21:17.959
<v Speaker 2>credit card. And last three months worked with both platforms

2:21:18.640 --> 2:21:22.120
<v Speaker 2>and so in externally rechargeable. So we announced this in

2:21:22.280 --> 2:21:26.440
<v Speaker 2>March of this last year this year, excuse me. And

2:21:26.520 --> 2:21:29.080
<v Speaker 2>we're working on integrating against all of our skis for

2:21:29.160 --> 2:21:32.080
<v Speaker 2>twenty four to twenty five. And it's basically a tracking

2:21:32.200 --> 2:21:35.960
<v Speaker 2>locating device and Simplicity does simple stuff really well. And

2:21:36.080 --> 2:21:37.920
<v Speaker 2>I would argue the following I learned from the ski

2:21:38.000 --> 2:21:40.920
<v Speaker 2>resort side of things. The spectrum of people that are

2:21:40.959 --> 2:21:43.280
<v Speaker 2>skiers in the US A good pick on the US

2:21:43.879 --> 2:21:47.680
<v Speaker 2>you have and Epic is a good example. Epic Mix.

2:21:47.840 --> 2:21:50.880
<v Speaker 2>Remember when Bail came out with Epic Mix. A lot

2:21:50.959 --> 2:21:53.760
<v Speaker 2>of folks still use that, but there's initial adopters that

2:21:53.840 --> 2:21:57.960
<v Speaker 2>were kind of very technically tech oriented. They have used it,

2:21:58.200 --> 2:22:00.600
<v Speaker 2>continue to use it right out of the well. Those

2:22:00.640 --> 2:22:03.360
<v Speaker 2>people don't know these track your vertical, your runs, et cetera.

2:22:03.920 --> 2:22:08.840
<v Speaker 2>Very technology tech oriented to say the least. And then

2:22:08.879 --> 2:22:11.560
<v Speaker 2>the other end of spectrum is leave my ski experience alone.

2:22:12.400 --> 2:22:14.520
<v Speaker 2>I don't want any technology. I just want to freaking

2:22:14.600 --> 2:22:19.200
<v Speaker 2>ski right. And then the vast majority of American skiers

2:22:19.240 --> 2:22:22.440
<v Speaker 2>are in between. And I equate it to four wheel drive.

2:22:23.000 --> 2:22:24.640
<v Speaker 2>I live in the mountains, and I use my four

2:22:24.680 --> 2:22:27.360
<v Speaker 2>wheel drive on when I have to, maybe fifteen to

2:22:27.440 --> 2:22:29.520
<v Speaker 2>twenty percent of every day every year. But when I

2:22:29.640 --> 2:22:33.320
<v Speaker 2>need it. I really need it, right. This device is

2:22:33.400 --> 2:22:36.440
<v Speaker 2>really simple, it's elegant. If you're you don't want technology

2:22:36.480 --> 2:22:39.480
<v Speaker 2>invading your ski experience, great, don't use it if you

2:22:39.680 --> 2:22:41.720
<v Speaker 2>If you're a techie guy, you want to know it here.

2:22:41.760 --> 2:22:43.280
<v Speaker 2>You can light it up all day long, but it

2:22:43.360 --> 2:22:45.400
<v Speaker 2>goes as a device that goes underneath the top sheet,

2:22:45.440 --> 2:22:48.280
<v Speaker 2>so you can't see it. And for the vast majority

2:22:48.280 --> 2:22:50.440
<v Speaker 2>of people that want to locate their skis in deep snow,

2:22:51.920 --> 2:22:54.600
<v Speaker 2>they are at fail and there's three thousand pairs of

2:22:54.600 --> 2:22:56.440
<v Speaker 2>skis outside the lodge and they can't remember where they

2:22:56.440 --> 2:22:59.959
<v Speaker 2>put them. It is a device that is a theft

2:23:00.240 --> 2:23:03.800
<v Speaker 2>deterrent right because hard to defeed it without ruining the ski.

2:23:04.840 --> 2:23:07.959
<v Speaker 2>It's also tracking locating device from traveling. So it's a simple,

2:23:08.640 --> 2:23:11.680
<v Speaker 2>straightforward ability, a deal that works with Apple find My

2:23:11.800 --> 2:23:13.000
<v Speaker 2>as well as androids.

2:23:13.040 --> 2:23:14.400
<v Speaker 1>Okay, just a little bit slower.

2:23:14.680 --> 2:23:14.960
<v Speaker 2>Sorry.

2:23:15.320 --> 2:23:19.120
<v Speaker 1>Find My works on Wi Fi and then every other

2:23:19.320 --> 2:23:21.880
<v Speaker 1>phone in the area. Yeah, it doesn't work with Wi Fi.

2:23:21.959 --> 2:23:26.160
<v Speaker 1>But yeah, okay, if I'm in deep powder and I

2:23:26.280 --> 2:23:29.480
<v Speaker 1>lose my ski, there might not be any other phones there.

2:23:29.480 --> 2:23:31.240
<v Speaker 1>How's it going to find my ski with?

2:23:31.680 --> 2:23:34.480
<v Speaker 2>We have combination Bluetooth and NFC nearfield.

2:23:34.920 --> 2:23:35.960
<v Speaker 1>And what's the range of that.

2:23:36.800 --> 2:23:39.039
<v Speaker 2>We've tested it at forty meters we put a ski

2:23:39.120 --> 2:23:43.560
<v Speaker 2>forty meters. Yeah, we put a ski in January forty

2:23:43.600 --> 2:23:46.360
<v Speaker 2>meters away and one meter deep snow, so called three

2:23:46.440 --> 2:23:50.520
<v Speaker 2>feet deep in snow forty meters away, a little bit

2:23:50.760 --> 2:23:52.640
<v Speaker 2>you know, call it, you know, forty yards away one

2:23:52.680 --> 2:23:56.160
<v Speaker 2>hundred twenty feet. Found the ski within about thirty eight seconds.

2:23:56.680 --> 2:24:01.760
<v Speaker 1>Okay. Two questions. One, Hey, the tracking device is not

2:24:02.000 --> 2:24:05.720
<v Speaker 1>in this year's skis correct? Is this a business? Is

2:24:05.800 --> 2:24:08.199
<v Speaker 1>this something you're going to license to other companies?

2:24:08.440 --> 2:24:08.640
<v Speaker 2>Yes?

2:24:10.200 --> 2:24:13.480
<v Speaker 1>What are the barriers to entry for competitors?

2:24:16.120 --> 2:24:19.840
<v Speaker 2>On the pure technology side, competitors of a very very

2:24:19.879 --> 2:24:22.720
<v Speaker 2>difficult time finding somebody who can develop this technology that

2:24:22.800 --> 2:24:26.640
<v Speaker 2>works with both Apple and Android. The relevance of that

2:24:26.920 --> 2:24:30.040
<v Speaker 2>is the US, sixty four percent of Americans use Apple

2:24:30.080 --> 2:24:34.560
<v Speaker 2>iOS largely, the balance use Google Android. Those metrics almost

2:24:34.640 --> 2:24:38.560
<v Speaker 2>perfectly invert for Europe, where Google androids the dominant platform.

2:24:38.600 --> 2:24:41.520
<v Speaker 2>I think it's at sixty two percent last year, and

2:24:41.600 --> 2:24:44.640
<v Speaker 2>the balance are Apple iOS. They'll a very difficult time

2:24:44.720 --> 2:24:48.000
<v Speaker 2>finding somebody can make this kind of technology work with

2:24:48.160 --> 2:24:52.760
<v Speaker 2>both platforms and have a device that is externally rechargeable.

2:24:53.080 --> 2:24:56.160
<v Speaker 2>So those are the primary technology barriers to entry, and

2:24:56.320 --> 2:25:01.160
<v Speaker 2>that's we have some exceptional IP attorneys. One guy, our

2:25:01.280 --> 2:25:04.840
<v Speaker 2>primary IP attorney, worked with a little technology company in

2:25:05.480 --> 2:25:08.879
<v Speaker 2>Coup Patino called Apple for sixteen years. He knows stuff,

2:25:09.520 --> 2:25:13.440
<v Speaker 2>and so we have a exclusivity in this sector globally

2:25:14.000 --> 2:25:16.199
<v Speaker 2>for this device that does all everything I just mentioned.

2:25:16.520 --> 2:25:21.240
<v Speaker 1>Okay, let's switch to materials. Yeah, I've lived long enough

2:25:21.360 --> 2:25:24.320
<v Speaker 1>to go. When they took the metal out of the skis,

2:25:24.800 --> 2:25:26.840
<v Speaker 1>then they went to foam cores, then they put the

2:25:26.879 --> 2:25:29.760
<v Speaker 1>metal back in. Dina Stars now putting a foam stringer

2:25:29.840 --> 2:25:33.920
<v Speaker 1>for in their skis. Yeah, and you talk about something

2:25:34.440 --> 2:25:37.359
<v Speaker 1>that's a new material. You were talking about titanyl earlier.

2:25:37.800 --> 2:25:39.519
<v Speaker 1>Tell me about this new material.

2:25:39.800 --> 2:25:42.280
<v Speaker 2>Sure, titanol. I made reference to it twice so far.

2:25:42.400 --> 2:25:46.360
<v Speaker 2>But Tino I had personally and ski resorts bought skis

2:25:46.360 --> 2:25:48.960
<v Speaker 2>since nineteen ninety two that had the name of the

2:25:49.000 --> 2:25:52.000
<v Speaker 2>ski in ti or titanium. And I didn't find out

2:25:52.080 --> 2:25:54.039
<v Speaker 2>until about two years ago that titinol is less than

2:25:54.080 --> 2:25:56.959
<v Speaker 2>one point two percent titanium in it, right, I think

2:25:57.040 --> 2:25:59.039
<v Speaker 2>that's I think that's deceptive.

2:25:59.440 --> 2:26:01.520
<v Speaker 1>Oh, it's I already deceptive.

2:26:01.640 --> 2:26:05.199
<v Speaker 2>And I'm like, uh so, hey, look we're guys carbon

2:26:05.280 --> 2:26:09.120
<v Speaker 2>fiber and titanium and must be good. Right, that's bullshit.

2:26:09.400 --> 2:26:11.000
<v Speaker 2>I mean, let's just call it like it is. That's bullshit.

2:26:11.080 --> 2:26:13.360
<v Speaker 1>Mean college, especially now that Apple is selling a phone

2:26:13.400 --> 2:26:18.199
<v Speaker 1>with titanium exterior. It it implies that these skis have titanium,

2:26:18.320 --> 2:26:19.039
<v Speaker 1>which they don't.

2:26:19.360 --> 2:26:21.640
<v Speaker 2>They don't. It's an elementum alloy made by a group

2:26:21.680 --> 2:26:24.720
<v Speaker 2>in Austria. MG walcked it down ninety two, and since

2:26:24.800 --> 2:26:29.119
<v Speaker 2>ninety two we've been seeing that, right right. I didn't

2:26:29.160 --> 2:26:31.000
<v Speaker 2>know that until a year and a half could fell.

2:26:31.040 --> 2:26:32.400
<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna say it was a sucker, but I was like,

2:26:32.560 --> 2:26:34.840
<v Speaker 2>I kind of believed it. When I saw TI and titanium.

2:26:34.920 --> 2:26:38.520
<v Speaker 2>I was like, that's not true. That's really not true.

2:26:38.680 --> 2:26:44.680
<v Speaker 2>And so relative of the materials switching gears, I also

2:26:44.720 --> 2:26:47.600
<v Speaker 2>came to find out and understand that carbon fiber has

2:26:47.640 --> 2:26:50.200
<v Speaker 2>been to use in many skis and is a less

2:26:50.240 --> 2:26:53.520
<v Speaker 2>than desirable material. Now I did know that, but I

2:26:53.600 --> 2:26:55.800
<v Speaker 2>didn't know the way I do by way of body.

2:26:56.400 --> 2:26:59.240
<v Speaker 2>And that is because fundamentally, without getting too deep into

2:26:59.320 --> 2:27:03.520
<v Speaker 2>my modern level of engineering and physics understanding, is how

2:27:03.520 --> 2:27:07.280
<v Speaker 2>it receives energy and returns energy is very spiky. So

2:27:07.360 --> 2:27:10.360
<v Speaker 2>you've been on skis that have a substantial amount of

2:27:10.360 --> 2:27:14.320
<v Speaker 2>carbon fibers. Somehow in this construction they receive energy and

2:27:14.400 --> 2:27:16.640
<v Speaker 2>returns energy in a way that for a skier like

2:27:16.720 --> 2:27:20.600
<v Speaker 2>you would be probably not very desirable. Chattery. You can

2:27:20.760 --> 2:27:22.879
<v Speaker 2>got lots of different descriptions, but it doesn't work well,

2:27:23.120 --> 2:27:27.480
<v Speaker 2>but it achieves the outcome desired the people making the

2:27:27.520 --> 2:27:32.480
<v Speaker 2>ski light and stiff, but doesn't theoretically.

2:27:31.920 --> 2:27:34.720
<v Speaker 1>They charge more for a carbon fiber ski. Is carbon

2:27:34.800 --> 2:27:35.480
<v Speaker 1>more expensive?

2:27:35.920 --> 2:27:40.640
<v Speaker 2>No, it depends on the braiding, It depends on all

2:27:40.840 --> 2:27:44.000
<v Speaker 2>kinds of stuff. But I'm not saying it's bad because

2:27:44.120 --> 2:27:47.440
<v Speaker 2>in some skis you're getting what you want, which is light, stiff,

2:27:47.480 --> 2:27:50.760
<v Speaker 2>and you're not necessarily looking for performance on a turn right,

2:27:52.240 --> 2:27:55.760
<v Speaker 2>backcountry touring, all kinds of side country stuff. You want

2:27:55.800 --> 2:28:00.120
<v Speaker 2>skis that are primarily lightweight, right and stiff ish. But

2:28:00.440 --> 2:28:03.520
<v Speaker 2>this trait and characteristic carbon fiber and how it sieves

2:28:03.680 --> 2:28:06.039
<v Speaker 2>turns energy is a absolute core part in the pun

2:28:07.000 --> 2:28:09.280
<v Speaker 2>of what we're talking about. So in describing this to

2:28:09.360 --> 2:28:12.959
<v Speaker 2>this group we're working within. Their clients include the Department

2:28:13.000 --> 2:28:17.640
<v Speaker 2>of Defense, NASA, Boeing. They're working with Amazon on the

2:28:18.720 --> 2:28:22.760
<v Speaker 2>Blue Origin space shuttle. The we're small ski industry is

2:28:23.000 --> 2:28:25.760
<v Speaker 2>really small compared to what they're taking on, but we've

2:28:25.800 --> 2:28:27.920
<v Speaker 2>been able to work our way in and we're working

2:28:27.959 --> 2:28:31.640
<v Speaker 2>with this group at the molecular level to develop. As

2:28:32.160 --> 2:28:36.760
<v Speaker 2>the mag group did in Austria developed Titanle, we're working

2:28:36.879 --> 2:28:40.360
<v Speaker 2>at the molecular molecular level developing our own thermoplastic that

2:28:40.520 --> 2:28:43.240
<v Speaker 2>has a tracing characteristics that we desire, which is to

2:28:43.360 --> 2:28:46.320
<v Speaker 2>receive and return energy in a fashion more similar to

2:28:46.400 --> 2:28:48.800
<v Speaker 2>what we know to be wood rite, a more smooth

2:28:49.040 --> 2:28:52.000
<v Speaker 2>distribution curve of energy return, but we still want to

2:28:52.000 --> 2:28:55.000
<v Speaker 2>get the lightness and stiffness out of the material. So

2:28:55.320 --> 2:28:58.560
<v Speaker 2>we're at the early stages, incipient stages of that work

2:28:59.240 --> 2:29:01.920
<v Speaker 2>and very encouraging what we're doing right now. But I

2:29:02.040 --> 2:29:04.520
<v Speaker 2>emphasize we're not looking at a different type of braiding

2:29:04.560 --> 2:29:08.000
<v Speaker 2>of carbon fiber. We're literally starting at the molecular level

2:29:08.040 --> 2:29:09.400
<v Speaker 2>of developing our own thermopas.

2:29:09.400 --> 2:29:12.960
<v Speaker 1>Okay, so this is also something that you as you

2:29:13.080 --> 2:29:17.440
<v Speaker 1>reference Titanel on the group overseas, that you would like

2:29:17.560 --> 2:29:20.280
<v Speaker 1>to see this as a standard throughout the industry, and

2:29:20.400 --> 2:29:22.040
<v Speaker 1>therefore it's profit potential.

2:29:22.320 --> 2:29:25.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so much the same. You asked the question straight

2:29:25.959 --> 2:29:30.560
<v Speaker 2>up with peak Locate. We're going to We've already we're

2:29:30.560 --> 2:29:34.160
<v Speaker 2>already waist deep in discussion of use of licensing Peak

2:29:34.200 --> 2:29:37.240
<v Speaker 2>Locate to other manufacturers, many of whom you've already mentioned

2:29:37.320 --> 2:29:41.560
<v Speaker 2>on your show or on this podcast with we're not

2:29:41.640 --> 2:29:44.119
<v Speaker 2>nearly as far down the path with the materials we're

2:29:44.120 --> 2:29:47.520
<v Speaker 2>developing the thermoplastics, but be fair to say that we

2:29:47.560 --> 2:29:52.120
<v Speaker 2>anticipate developing this material and being in probably a similar

2:29:52.160 --> 2:29:55.880
<v Speaker 2>situation as MG has been to Titanol, and licensing it

2:29:55.959 --> 2:29:56.880
<v Speaker 2>to other manufacturers.

2:29:57.280 --> 2:30:00.800
<v Speaker 1>Okay, the third component of your strategic indition is the

2:30:00.920 --> 2:30:06.920
<v Speaker 1>actual manufacturing process. Presently, skis are pressed. If anyone has

2:30:06.959 --> 2:30:09.400
<v Speaker 1>seen the video, and it's funny because they have how

2:30:09.480 --> 2:30:13.600
<v Speaker 1>you make this video. These are essentially made by end

2:30:14.040 --> 2:30:17.520
<v Speaker 1>to this day, and it's the aquatic of drills light

2:30:17.640 --> 2:30:20.080
<v Speaker 1>years better than it used to be. But anybody who's

2:30:20.120 --> 2:30:21.920
<v Speaker 1>really into knows that every pair of ski is going

2:30:21.959 --> 2:30:25.360
<v Speaker 1>to ski a little bit differently. So tell us about

2:30:25.440 --> 2:30:27.440
<v Speaker 1>your manufacturing.

2:30:26.680 --> 2:30:29.720
<v Speaker 2>Initiative again, stuff I didn't know until two years ago.

2:30:30.760 --> 2:30:34.480
<v Speaker 2>Ska presses are basically a Panini maker, right, you have

2:30:34.640 --> 2:30:37.560
<v Speaker 2>a form, you have a mold, layers that have been

2:30:37.600 --> 2:30:40.880
<v Speaker 2>specified designed, all that kind of stuff go into this

2:30:41.040 --> 2:30:44.199
<v Speaker 2>large machine. We have one of them in Montana laying

2:30:44.240 --> 2:30:46.600
<v Speaker 2>zwn skip Press, the best one on the planet and

2:30:47.000 --> 2:30:49.840
<v Speaker 2>basically a bit of pressure or a bit of heat,

2:30:49.879 --> 2:30:52.880
<v Speaker 2>not a ton of pressure in a very specifically oriented way.

2:30:53.480 --> 2:30:56.640
<v Speaker 2>Takes a sandwich construction which involves a pockey's glues, resins,

2:30:56.680 --> 2:31:00.200
<v Speaker 2>some heat and this impresses it pull them out your

2:31:00.280 --> 2:31:03.920
<v Speaker 2>points well made. Every pair of skis is handmade. They

2:31:04.040 --> 2:31:05.320
<v Speaker 2>just are made too through them.

2:31:05.360 --> 2:31:08.040
<v Speaker 1>I mean literally they personally got they lay the fiberglass.

2:31:08.200 --> 2:31:13.280
<v Speaker 2>Yes, incredible, it's it's actually the equivalent if you know

2:31:13.360 --> 2:31:15.920
<v Speaker 2>what a mimeograph machine is. But it would be as

2:31:16.000 --> 2:31:18.240
<v Speaker 2>if the laser printer had yet to be made and

2:31:18.320 --> 2:31:21.160
<v Speaker 2>we were still using mimiograph machines. That is what a

2:31:21.200 --> 2:31:21.880
<v Speaker 2>ski press is.

2:31:22.280 --> 2:31:22.480
<v Speaker 1>Verse.

2:31:23.560 --> 2:31:25.840
<v Speaker 2>But if you attach a computer the mimeograph machine, it's

2:31:25.840 --> 2:31:29.800
<v Speaker 2>still a mimeograph machine. Right. Get a point. So body

2:31:30.120 --> 2:31:35.240
<v Speaker 2>has some contacts in public Germany group called Beeler BI

2:31:35.600 --> 2:31:37.080
<v Speaker 2>H l E R. And they have nothing to do

2:31:37.120 --> 2:31:40.400
<v Speaker 2>with ski business and their clients include Mercedes, benz Bosch

2:31:40.480 --> 2:31:45.080
<v Speaker 2>and others. They are exceptionally good at fully automated, high precision,

2:31:46.120 --> 2:31:53.160
<v Speaker 2>multi material elements coming into a machinery process. To automate

2:31:53.240 --> 2:31:56.760
<v Speaker 2>skis in manufacturing, basically take us out of the mimiograph

2:31:56.800 --> 2:31:59.720
<v Speaker 2>era and do what maybe the Healtt Packard group did

2:32:00.240 --> 2:32:04.240
<v Speaker 2>developed laser printer. We're well down the path on that

2:32:04.400 --> 2:32:07.240
<v Speaker 2>working with this group, and be fair to we call

2:32:07.320 --> 2:32:10.760
<v Speaker 2>it Project Treadstone because it's I thought that was kind

2:32:10.760 --> 2:32:13.640
<v Speaker 2>of a funny reference. Obviously, with the absence of your smiling,

2:32:13.720 --> 2:32:15.640
<v Speaker 2>it wasn't funny enough. Maybe you can help me owe

2:32:15.640 --> 2:32:18.840
<v Speaker 2>a new name. But we're getting pretty far down the

2:32:18.879 --> 2:32:21.879
<v Speaker 2>path to basically re engineer the entire process by which

2:32:21.879 --> 2:32:24.800
<v Speaker 2>skis are made, and it has to do with materials

2:32:24.879 --> 2:32:28.160
<v Speaker 2>coming in, the components, how they come together and come out.

2:32:28.280 --> 2:32:31.280
<v Speaker 2>The other elements are probably not It's not going to

2:32:31.360 --> 2:32:35.160
<v Speaker 2>look much in a year to maybe nine months to

2:32:35.160 --> 2:32:36.880
<v Speaker 2>twelve months from now. We'll help a prototype over in

2:32:36.959 --> 2:32:39.760
<v Speaker 2>Germany and be fair to say that it won't look

2:32:39.760 --> 2:32:41.520
<v Speaker 2>anything like how skis are made today.

2:32:42.400 --> 2:32:45.199
<v Speaker 1>And that would also theoretically be a business. You would

2:32:45.240 --> 2:32:47.400
<v Speaker 1>sell that to other manufacturers.

2:32:46.760 --> 2:32:48.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we would, We would see ourselves.

2:32:48.600 --> 2:32:53.000
<v Speaker 1>Okay, now, these three strategic initiatives. Were they there at

2:32:53.040 --> 2:32:55.600
<v Speaker 1>the advent where you started to make skis and you

2:32:55.720 --> 2:32:56.880
<v Speaker 1>came up with this other stuff?

2:32:57.360 --> 2:33:00.560
<v Speaker 2>They were, But today we have a much clearer line

2:33:00.600 --> 2:33:01.760
<v Speaker 2>of sight than we did a year and a half

2:33:01.800 --> 2:33:04.960
<v Speaker 2>ago on all three of them, because we've advanced. On

2:33:04.959 --> 2:33:06.920
<v Speaker 2>the same time, we were standing up the business in

2:33:07.000 --> 2:33:09.920
<v Speaker 2>a very fast moving basis, launching it going meaning peak

2:33:09.959 --> 2:33:15.280
<v Speaker 2>skis and getting in the marketplace. But then we really

2:33:15.840 --> 2:33:18.360
<v Speaker 2>started going pedal down on these with this great team member.

2:33:18.440 --> 2:33:20.360
<v Speaker 2>We have a guy named Darren Hougan who's our chief

2:33:20.400 --> 2:33:23.360
<v Speaker 2>product officer in engineer, brilliant guy. We're boeing for a

2:33:23.400 --> 2:33:26.000
<v Speaker 2>little bit. Master's and engineering work with K two for

2:33:26.120 --> 2:33:29.080
<v Speaker 2>quite a while. You knows skiing. He's a passionate skier,

2:33:29.200 --> 2:33:30.880
<v Speaker 2>mountain guy, used to be a ski patroller for a

2:33:30.920 --> 2:33:34.600
<v Speaker 2>big sky. He gets it and putting body together with Darren,

2:33:34.879 --> 2:33:40.640
<v Speaker 2>it's great, it's fantastic. I'll drop something on here in

2:33:40.680 --> 2:33:43.120
<v Speaker 2>a second new ski. It'll be a scoop if you will.

2:33:43.920 --> 2:33:47.920
<v Speaker 2>We're probably gonna launch in late October seventy eight Underfoot

2:33:48.640 --> 2:33:52.800
<v Speaker 2>for the European market and also the US skier primarily

2:33:53.320 --> 2:33:58.120
<v Speaker 2>East Coastkier that wants narrow underfoot ski. But Darren's been

2:33:58.280 --> 2:34:01.040
<v Speaker 2>really critical on advancing these initials, including the work with

2:34:01.160 --> 2:34:04.720
<v Speaker 2>Bealer and this engineering process. I have to make mention

2:34:05.360 --> 2:34:08.080
<v Speaker 2>that the reliance on glues, residents and epoxyes on this

2:34:08.480 --> 2:34:14.119
<v Speaker 2>current process skis when they get retired, where do they go? Right?

2:34:14.400 --> 2:34:17.400
<v Speaker 2>And not as bad as lithium ion batteries, But if

2:34:17.400 --> 2:34:22.800
<v Speaker 2>they don't become atirontic chairs or fences around some people's backyards,

2:34:23.200 --> 2:34:25.520
<v Speaker 2>they end up in a dump and those gluz residents

2:34:25.560 --> 2:34:28.080
<v Speaker 2>and epoxyas are not good for the environment. In our case.

2:34:28.200 --> 2:34:31.400
<v Speaker 2>One of the five primary development criteria include the same

2:34:31.600 --> 2:34:35.000
<v Speaker 2>process by which we make the skis, the same materials

2:34:35.040 --> 2:34:38.840
<v Speaker 2>of processes by we're able to deconstruct those exact skis

2:34:38.959 --> 2:34:41.560
<v Speaker 2>after they're retired and retask those materials.

2:34:42.160 --> 2:34:44.960
<v Speaker 1>What do you think of the rosi recyclable ski?

2:34:45.400 --> 2:34:49.320
<v Speaker 2>Good stuff? More the better? Okay, great, great stuff, a

2:34:49.400 --> 2:34:52.039
<v Speaker 2>brilliant minds good stuff. This is different.

2:34:52.520 --> 2:34:55.119
<v Speaker 1>Who actually makes peak skis.

2:34:56.480 --> 2:34:59.880
<v Speaker 2>Right now? It's a lawn outside of Bluebliana and Slovenia.

2:35:02.440 --> 2:35:05.680
<v Speaker 2>We might be diversifying our manufacturing sources going.

2:35:05.560 --> 2:35:09.199
<v Speaker 1>Forward, diversifying meaning multiple manufacturers.

2:35:09.320 --> 2:35:12.360
<v Speaker 2>Yes, what would be The reason to do that d

2:35:12.560 --> 2:35:17.160
<v Speaker 2>risk any business when you have a single source supplier

2:35:17.400 --> 2:35:20.720
<v Speaker 2>or a single point of failure. You know, Fisher had

2:35:20.760 --> 2:35:22.600
<v Speaker 2>a factory burned down was about two and a half

2:35:22.640 --> 2:35:25.840
<v Speaker 2>three years ago. We don't have a single point of

2:35:25.920 --> 2:35:29.519
<v Speaker 2>failure if for some reason something were to happen in Liviana.

2:35:29.800 --> 2:35:32.040
<v Speaker 2>Elon we have a single point of existence right now

2:35:32.280 --> 2:35:35.600
<v Speaker 2>until we get Treadstone built. I don't want to come

2:35:35.640 --> 2:35:38.600
<v Speaker 2>back to treadchtone in a second, but yeah, right now,

2:35:38.640 --> 2:35:40.000
<v Speaker 2>it's guys in Slovenia.

2:35:40.560 --> 2:35:45.400
<v Speaker 1>Okay, they're making the skis, but they're also in the

2:35:45.480 --> 2:35:48.959
<v Speaker 1>business themselves. Yeah, what is their incentives to do as

2:35:49.000 --> 2:35:51.240
<v Speaker 1>well for you? And you actually have someone on site

2:35:51.280 --> 2:35:52.240
<v Speaker 1>when the skis are made.

2:35:53.480 --> 2:35:57.359
<v Speaker 2>So they have these huge factories. Their incentive is basically

2:35:57.480 --> 2:36:02.760
<v Speaker 2>they have production capability. I can't speak on their behalf,

2:36:02.840 --> 2:36:05.000
<v Speaker 2>but if I'm the CEO of Elon and other companies

2:36:05.040 --> 2:36:07.760
<v Speaker 2>that do this, including Fisher and Kessley and others, many

2:36:07.879 --> 2:36:10.160
<v Speaker 2>do it, oem white label, whatever you want to call it.

2:36:11.200 --> 2:36:15.840
<v Speaker 2>They have capacity and their production facilities and they feasibly

2:36:16.000 --> 2:36:18.199
<v Speaker 2>or theoretically hit their head on the ceiling of demand

2:36:18.280 --> 2:36:21.760
<v Speaker 2>for their brand and their products. So they use capacity

2:36:21.840 --> 2:36:26.279
<v Speaker 2>and we buy skis from them. Very common Black Crows

2:36:26.920 --> 2:36:29.880
<v Speaker 2>make their skis at Elan. There's fact to do these

2:36:29.959 --> 2:36:34.000
<v Speaker 2>factory tours with all the manufacturers. I'm just amazed how

2:36:34.040 --> 2:36:36.080
<v Speaker 2>many skis. I thought, Wow, I never even thought about

2:36:36.120 --> 2:36:38.600
<v Speaker 2>who makes their skis, But they're made here. So it's

2:36:38.800 --> 2:36:41.640
<v Speaker 2>the vast majority of skis that you know of are

2:36:41.920 --> 2:36:43.800
<v Speaker 2>made by these big factories.

2:36:44.240 --> 2:36:47.080
<v Speaker 1>Okay, so last year in the middle of the season,

2:36:47.760 --> 2:36:50.240
<v Speaker 1>there were incentives early, like you buy the skis, you

2:36:50.280 --> 2:36:52.320
<v Speaker 1>get a pair of binding something like that. But you

2:36:52.520 --> 2:36:55.640
<v Speaker 1>got to the point where you got two pairs of

2:36:55.800 --> 2:36:58.680
<v Speaker 1>skis for price of one.

2:36:59.120 --> 2:36:59.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

2:36:59.440 --> 2:37:03.959
<v Speaker 1>However, one words that it appears to be a sale,

2:37:05.000 --> 2:37:08.360
<v Speaker 1>and it makes many people might say, well, why should

2:37:08.400 --> 2:37:12.680
<v Speaker 1>I pay full price now, because I'll wait for them

2:37:12.800 --> 2:37:13.920
<v Speaker 1>to go on discount.

2:37:14.000 --> 2:37:14.120
<v Speaker 2>Now.

2:37:14.200 --> 2:37:18.000
<v Speaker 1>There are certainly companies rolex at a lot of if

2:37:18.040 --> 2:37:21.000
<v Speaker 1>they have excess inventory, they bring it back, they destroy

2:37:21.120 --> 2:37:23.600
<v Speaker 1>it because they don't want to lower the value. What

2:37:23.840 --> 2:37:26.080
<v Speaker 1>was the thinking and why should I trust the price

2:37:26.200 --> 2:37:26.840
<v Speaker 1>going forward?

2:37:27.240 --> 2:37:32.320
<v Speaker 2>Straight up? Or finished with the consumer view of get

2:37:32.400 --> 2:37:36.840
<v Speaker 2>that at times ten the simple nature of things. We

2:37:36.959 --> 2:37:39.080
<v Speaker 2>launched company in April. First batch of skis come in

2:37:39.160 --> 2:37:41.000
<v Speaker 2>and they come in in different Transas throughout the fall,

2:37:41.600 --> 2:37:43.880
<v Speaker 2>and some of those transfers, some batches of skis were

2:37:43.920 --> 2:37:46.960
<v Speaker 2>pretty late, so we were not We weren't fully i

2:37:47.000 --> 2:37:50.680
<v Speaker 2>would say inventoried until mid to late November early December.

2:37:50.879 --> 2:37:55.360
<v Speaker 2>Number one. Number two, we're brand new and as much

2:37:55.879 --> 2:37:59.880
<v Speaker 2>credibility and impact as body Miller's name has. It's a

2:38:00.240 --> 2:38:04.760
<v Speaker 2>brand new ski and a market full of traditionalists skeptics,

2:38:04.920 --> 2:38:10.720
<v Speaker 2>understandably skeptics, and so yeah, we did not have as

2:38:10.800 --> 2:38:13.320
<v Speaker 2>much pickup and traction and demand as we thought we

2:38:13.360 --> 2:38:17.119
<v Speaker 2>would in the September through November December timeframe. We turned

2:38:17.160 --> 2:38:20.720
<v Speaker 2>the corner on New Year's and so set that aside.

2:38:21.520 --> 2:38:23.720
<v Speaker 2>We're also a direct to consumer eCOM company. We have

2:38:23.879 --> 2:38:27.160
<v Speaker 2>some excellent strategists and tech. I have this Chief Marketing

2:38:27.200 --> 2:38:30.560
<v Speaker 2>Officer or I caller, our digital marketing assassin. So we

2:38:30.680 --> 2:38:34.160
<v Speaker 2>do a lot of testing. And our industry is small enough.

2:38:34.200 --> 2:38:38.480
<v Speaker 2>It's not like anhyder or cold companies or beer companies

2:38:38.520 --> 2:38:41.360
<v Speaker 2>have big enough market to go test demand at price

2:38:41.400 --> 2:38:43.800
<v Speaker 2>points and those kinds of things. We don't have that luxury.

2:38:44.520 --> 2:38:47.000
<v Speaker 2>So in this case we're doing recon as much as

2:38:47.040 --> 2:38:52.840
<v Speaker 2>anything to see what bundles, what offers move right. We've

2:38:52.879 --> 2:38:56.800
<v Speaker 2>done a lot of that, binding ski bundles, multiple bundles,

2:38:56.920 --> 2:38:58.640
<v Speaker 2>a lot of it's testing, and yeah, a lot of

2:38:58.680 --> 2:39:01.280
<v Speaker 2>it's to sell. This case, the two for one we

2:39:01.440 --> 2:39:03.720
<v Speaker 2>ran for ten days. I think it was in January,

2:39:04.440 --> 2:39:06.880
<v Speaker 2>and unlikely we will go back to that, but we

2:39:07.000 --> 2:39:10.360
<v Speaker 2>learned a lot through that process. Well to learn Number one,

2:39:11.720 --> 2:39:13.440
<v Speaker 2>I was called by a couple of friends saying, whoa

2:39:13.560 --> 2:39:15.120
<v Speaker 2>you guys desperate in a tough spot?

2:39:15.240 --> 2:39:15.360
<v Speaker 1>Is it?

2:39:16.040 --> 2:39:18.400
<v Speaker 2>No, we're testing and we're moving out product. It's year

2:39:18.480 --> 2:39:19.520
<v Speaker 2>one doing okay.

2:39:19.680 --> 2:39:19.720
<v Speaker 1>No.

2:39:19.800 --> 2:39:22.560
<v Speaker 2>By the way, our retention on revenue per ski is

2:39:22.600 --> 2:39:26.880
<v Speaker 2>still higher than yours. Think about that, we're selling skis

2:39:26.879 --> 2:39:29.680
<v Speaker 2>at eight ninety. Cut that in half. That's our take

2:39:29.760 --> 2:39:32.119
<v Speaker 2>per ski. On a two for one, we're still retaining

2:39:32.160 --> 2:39:36.880
<v Speaker 2>more revenue per ski. It was off model, off our

2:39:36.959 --> 2:39:40.200
<v Speaker 2>pro form and modeling, but at the same time it

2:39:40.400 --> 2:39:43.520
<v Speaker 2>was in and out and not a consistent and it

2:39:43.640 --> 2:39:46.920
<v Speaker 2>achieved a great deal success and movement inventory. But more importantly,

2:39:46.959 --> 2:39:49.720
<v Speaker 2>we had to get our skis under people's feet on

2:39:49.879 --> 2:39:52.720
<v Speaker 2>the mountain and we wanted to do that quickly. We

2:39:52.840 --> 2:39:56.040
<v Speaker 2>know the demand curve in the traditional sense of hard

2:39:56.080 --> 2:39:59.440
<v Speaker 2>goods and ski business labor day through mid January. But

2:39:59.560 --> 2:40:02.440
<v Speaker 2>running key resorts, I know that the forty two percent

2:40:02.520 --> 2:40:05.240
<v Speaker 2>of most revenue is made in between presidents in late March.

2:40:05.640 --> 2:40:07.959
<v Speaker 2>There's a lot more demand out there just the traditional

2:40:08.280 --> 2:40:11.520
<v Speaker 2>distribution system, and the ski business doesn't know how to

2:40:11.600 --> 2:40:13.800
<v Speaker 2>deal with that because they've already pushed all their product

2:40:14.000 --> 2:40:17.080
<v Speaker 2>through the retailers and they're barely able to know who's

2:40:17.120 --> 2:40:21.720
<v Speaker 2>buying what let alone. I mean that from a consumer perspective,

2:40:21.800 --> 2:40:25.400
<v Speaker 2>not volume, but there's a lot not known. In our case,

2:40:25.480 --> 2:40:28.080
<v Speaker 2>we learned a truckload through that sale and other bundles

2:40:28.120 --> 2:40:31.520
<v Speaker 2>and other packages we put out there, and yeah, it

2:40:31.560 --> 2:40:32.000
<v Speaker 2>went well.

2:40:32.640 --> 2:40:37.800
<v Speaker 1>Okay. Many ski manufacturers don't change the construction but paint

2:40:37.879 --> 2:40:41.680
<v Speaker 1>the job every year and the skis are discounted at

2:40:41.760 --> 2:40:46.840
<v Speaker 1>some point during the season. Also, there are model cycles.

2:40:47.640 --> 2:40:52.000
<v Speaker 1>Will you follow the same situation where you will change

2:40:52.040 --> 2:40:55.200
<v Speaker 1>the paint shob discount? And when will we see other

2:40:55.320 --> 2:40:57.720
<v Speaker 1>than the tracking device? When will we see updates in

2:40:57.800 --> 2:40:58.480
<v Speaker 1>these models?

2:40:58.840 --> 2:41:02.000
<v Speaker 2>Three questions? No, no, no, and twenty four twenty five?

2:41:03.080 --> 2:41:05.480
<v Speaker 1>Okay, twenty four to twenty five? What is going to

2:41:05.480 --> 2:41:07.160
<v Speaker 1>be different about the skis other than the track.

2:41:07.400 --> 2:41:10.440
<v Speaker 2>Well, I mean, don't need to be too truncated there

2:41:10.480 --> 2:41:15.200
<v Speaker 2>on the answers. We don't just change the paint job.

2:41:15.800 --> 2:41:20.440
<v Speaker 2>We're extremely porthright, very very honest, glaringly honest with what

2:41:20.600 --> 2:41:24.240
<v Speaker 2>has and hasn't changed. For twenty three twenty four, we

2:41:24.400 --> 2:41:27.880
<v Speaker 2>have increased number of lengths and models. The skis are

2:41:28.240 --> 2:41:30.680
<v Speaker 2>largely unchanged in some ways, a couple of refinements here

2:41:30.720 --> 2:41:34.720
<v Speaker 2>and there. Most folks who are not at all categorizes overhauls.

2:41:34.840 --> 2:41:36.959
<v Speaker 2>But we nor have we represented to anybody that we've

2:41:37.000 --> 2:41:40.160
<v Speaker 2>overhauled the skis or it's a whole new model. Twenty

2:41:40.200 --> 2:41:43.000
<v Speaker 2>four to twenty five there will be a host of

2:41:43.160 --> 2:41:47.800
<v Speaker 2>changes for the design of the skis, some of them substantial,

2:41:47.920 --> 2:41:49.680
<v Speaker 2>some of them not. One of them will be the

2:41:49.879 --> 2:41:53.240
<v Speaker 2>high likelihood of integration of peak located into every pair

2:41:53.280 --> 2:41:53.680
<v Speaker 2>of skis.

2:41:55.040 --> 2:41:57.840
<v Speaker 1>Okay, I think we've covered. Is there anything you need

2:41:57.959 --> 2:42:00.240
<v Speaker 1>to say about this that we haven't spoken about out?

2:42:00.680 --> 2:42:04.160
<v Speaker 2>Holy crap? No, I mean, geez, line of questions. Man,

2:42:04.240 --> 2:42:05.400
<v Speaker 2>I feel like I'm in a deposition.

2:42:05.520 --> 2:42:08.280
<v Speaker 1>Well, you know, as I said, great, believe me, I

2:42:08.480 --> 2:42:11.320
<v Speaker 1>have more, but I won't ask them because as you

2:42:11.400 --> 2:42:14.000
<v Speaker 1>get in I mean, listen, they're so you know, some

2:42:14.120 --> 2:42:16.080
<v Speaker 1>of this shit is marketing. Give you look at Blizard

2:42:16.120 --> 2:42:18.800
<v Speaker 1>and I'm not a fan of their skis. First they

2:42:18.920 --> 2:42:22.400
<v Speaker 1>talked about flip core, then they change their core again

2:42:22.480 --> 2:42:25.360
<v Speaker 1>in terms of now they're talking about and they're not

2:42:25.440 --> 2:42:28.680
<v Speaker 1>the only company. Well, everybody else just makes the same

2:42:28.840 --> 2:42:32.199
<v Speaker 1>ski in different lengths. We make it just for these lengths,

2:42:33.440 --> 2:42:36.680
<v Speaker 1>and then other people there are certain skis identical, but

2:42:36.800 --> 2:42:39.199
<v Speaker 1>everyone knows no, you've got to buy it in this length,

2:42:39.360 --> 2:42:42.920
<v Speaker 1>not that length. So there's a lot of variables. And

2:42:43.000 --> 2:42:48.240
<v Speaker 1>as you say, uh, okay, Amazon, I'm a big Amazon fan.

2:42:48.959 --> 2:42:52.120
<v Speaker 1>Customer service is amazing as long as you don't abuse it.

2:42:52.560 --> 2:42:57.040
<v Speaker 1>If you send back four fifty five inch TVs, they

2:42:57.080 --> 2:42:58.680
<v Speaker 1>will say we're not going to sell anything anywhere.

2:42:58.800 --> 2:43:00.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, hey wait a minute, right.

2:43:00.520 --> 2:43:03.400
<v Speaker 1>Right, but shy of that, they'll work with you. You

2:43:03.560 --> 2:43:05.560
<v Speaker 1>never get whereas I've had, So you buy something on

2:43:05.640 --> 2:43:08.480
<v Speaker 1>eBay because it's unavailable, it's out of production. A lot

2:43:08.520 --> 2:43:10.520
<v Speaker 1>of those people they don't want to take well you're sure,

2:43:10.640 --> 2:43:14.240
<v Speaker 1>blah blah blah blah blah. So you know, I think

2:43:14.360 --> 2:43:17.680
<v Speaker 1>just getting peopled over the hurdle knowing that hey, you'll

2:43:17.720 --> 2:43:19.599
<v Speaker 1>take them back is important.

2:43:19.280 --> 2:43:22.280
<v Speaker 2>In two seconds without any questions. They think. There's a

2:43:22.320 --> 2:43:25.040
<v Speaker 2>couple of things I'd thrown that you hit on in

2:43:25.120 --> 2:43:28.320
<v Speaker 2>those comments, and that is number one. We have this

2:43:28.480 --> 2:43:31.760
<v Speaker 2>internal deal. We're not here to do what's been done before.

2:43:33.360 --> 2:43:36.080
<v Speaker 2>And that's not disrespectful of the past. It is, in

2:43:36.160 --> 2:43:38.840
<v Speaker 2>fact respectful of the past. There's just not much about

2:43:38.879 --> 2:43:42.959
<v Speaker 2>our company team what we do that has any trait

2:43:43.160 --> 2:43:45.520
<v Speaker 2>or characteristic that has a tracer bull of going back

2:43:45.560 --> 2:43:49.680
<v Speaker 2>to the traditional ski industry in any way, shape or form.

2:43:49.920 --> 2:43:54.160
<v Speaker 2>And it's just not necessarily anything other than our chosen path.

2:43:54.800 --> 2:44:02.440
<v Speaker 2>That said, we have this patentable, patentable cut out that

2:44:02.520 --> 2:44:04.800
<v Speaker 2>we call the Keel. I was dragged kicking and screaming

2:44:05.240 --> 2:44:07.480
<v Speaker 2>into naming it. I didn't want to, and the main

2:44:07.560 --> 2:44:11.600
<v Speaker 2>reason being upon Titanol and other things. The industry has

2:44:11.640 --> 2:44:14.880
<v Speaker 2>been void of real true hardcore innovation. It's been a

2:44:14.920 --> 2:44:18.840
<v Speaker 2>whole bunch of really nifty, tricky names flipping this and that,

2:44:19.120 --> 2:44:22.920
<v Speaker 2>core this, you know, Titanum, all that stuff, And I

2:44:22.920 --> 2:44:24.760
<v Speaker 2>wouldn't say it feel like a sucker, but we came

2:44:24.800 --> 2:44:30.040
<v Speaker 2>into this bob as contrarian's skeptics. That has fed our

2:44:30.320 --> 2:44:32.879
<v Speaker 2>development of our business model that includes I don't want

2:44:32.879 --> 2:44:36.199
<v Speaker 2>to name it because it sounded like yet another iteration

2:44:36.440 --> 2:44:40.640
<v Speaker 2>of nifty sizzly crap that doesn't necessarily but we had

2:44:40.680 --> 2:44:42.560
<v Speaker 2>to name it, so like, okay, we'll call it keel

2:44:43.360 --> 2:44:45.520
<v Speaker 2>because we have to. We have to name it something,

2:44:46.920 --> 2:44:51.120
<v Speaker 2>and it makes a difference. And now we have a

2:44:51.160 --> 2:44:53.640
<v Speaker 2>patent in place and we're in a good spot. But

2:44:53.760 --> 2:44:57.160
<v Speaker 2>everything about our company is straight up. We don't speak

2:44:57.200 --> 2:44:59.280
<v Speaker 2>in hipster's talk. In fact, inside our company there's a

2:44:59.320 --> 2:45:03.519
<v Speaker 2>ten dollars fine anytime you use the words like disruptor

2:45:03.879 --> 2:45:06.240
<v Speaker 2>or that kind of hipster talk, that these are words

2:45:06.240 --> 2:45:08.360
<v Speaker 2>that used to mean something as a Middlebury graduate or

2:45:08.400 --> 2:45:10.360
<v Speaker 2>I would be shocked if you don't have an appreciation

2:45:10.520 --> 2:45:13.200
<v Speaker 2>for how the English language has been diluted in this case.

2:45:13.240 --> 2:45:14.760
<v Speaker 2>These are words you used to mean something. Now they've

2:45:14.800 --> 2:45:20.640
<v Speaker 2>been so abused by many in the industry, including advertising folks,

2:45:20.760 --> 2:45:24.240
<v Speaker 2>that they don't have any value. In our case, we

2:45:24.440 --> 2:45:29.119
<v Speaker 2>just say say things extremely straight up, fashion, blunt, force, trauma,

2:45:29.560 --> 2:45:34.000
<v Speaker 2>like you said about ten minutes ago, point plank. Everything

2:45:34.000 --> 2:45:36.600
<v Speaker 2>about our company is straight up. How we communicate the customers,

2:45:36.840 --> 2:45:39.680
<v Speaker 2>the truth matters. We're not like, we're not going to

2:45:39.680 --> 2:45:42.880
<v Speaker 2>be pulling out stuff that is sisily marketing bs and

2:45:43.200 --> 2:45:45.680
<v Speaker 2>trying to convince people to buy our skis based on that.

2:45:46.400 --> 2:45:49.440
<v Speaker 2>It's a different deal. We just hey, look man, Body

2:45:49.480 --> 2:45:51.360
<v Speaker 2>and I are retired guys. We have a lot of

2:45:51.400 --> 2:45:53.320
<v Speaker 2>time on our hands. We have some experience, and we

2:45:53.400 --> 2:45:57.680
<v Speaker 2>think we can do this pretty well, including the strategic initiatives.

2:45:58.480 --> 2:46:00.600
<v Speaker 2>But that's just a no bullshit coach to how we

2:46:01.080 --> 2:46:06.199
<v Speaker 2>come into this world of making skis and selling skis.

2:46:06.480 --> 2:46:09.840
<v Speaker 2>And good news is we've done well in some of

2:46:09.879 --> 2:46:12.800
<v Speaker 2>the ski ratings and write ups and we're prideful in that.

2:46:13.480 --> 2:46:16.640
<v Speaker 2>But there's we're just getting started. Body's got a notebook

2:46:17.120 --> 2:46:20.400
<v Speaker 2>full of ideas and there's more to come on the

2:46:20.480 --> 2:46:22.920
<v Speaker 2>skis themselves, as well as these other initiatives.

2:46:25.240 --> 2:46:27.760
<v Speaker 1>Well, I'm kind of speechless because this is my passion.

2:46:27.840 --> 2:46:29.680
<v Speaker 1>But in any of Andy, Andy, I want to thank

2:46:29.760 --> 2:46:32.120
<v Speaker 1>you so much for taking the time to speak with

2:46:32.240 --> 2:46:33.199
<v Speaker 1>me and my audience.

2:46:33.520 --> 2:46:36.160
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, this is great. I mean, I love the history.

2:46:36.600 --> 2:46:39.600
<v Speaker 2>I got to say it. I'm intensely honored, particularly honored

2:46:39.600 --> 2:46:42.040
<v Speaker 2>to be here because you have had books like Leiwikie

2:46:42.680 --> 2:46:45.800
<v Speaker 2>Buying Rate, one of my guitar heroes, on the show

2:46:46.000 --> 2:46:48.000
<v Speaker 2>and I'm just a I'm just a retired guy in

2:46:48.080 --> 2:46:51.800
<v Speaker 2>Montana that rides horses a lot, and to be on

2:46:51.879 --> 2:46:54.960
<v Speaker 2>the show and have questions, your passion is welcomed and

2:46:55.000 --> 2:46:57.039
<v Speaker 2>I'll really appreciate the chance.

2:46:57.720 --> 2:47:00.920
<v Speaker 1>Okay, till next time. This is Bob Left sets