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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast.

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Speaker 1: My guest today is Andy Wirth, co founder and CEO

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Speaker 1: of Peak Skis Andy, how do you know Body Miller

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Speaker 1: your partner, Bob.

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Speaker 2: Great to be here and really an honor to be

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Speaker 2: on your show, and also total dig on your Joe

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Speaker 2: Walsh riff that brings us into the show. One of

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Speaker 2: the great songs of all time.

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Speaker 1: Wait wait, wait, most people don't recognize it. That's Meadows,

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Speaker 1: the first song on the second side of the Smoker

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Speaker 1: you drink the player that you get. How do you

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Speaker 1: know that?

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Speaker 2: I am a music fan. I played guitar. He used

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Speaker 2: to play a little bit better than I do nowadays

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Speaker 2: because of this lile accident ten years ago. But I

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Speaker 2: have loved and appreciated anybody who can play guitar well,

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Speaker 2: regardless of genre. And I first cut my teeth on

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Speaker 2: Joe Walsh Gosh, I know, early eighties, late eighties, seventies,

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Speaker 2: something like that, and just love that album. And Rocky

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Speaker 2: Mountain Way a different album though.

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Speaker 1: Right, well that's the opening track on that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but then Mountain Meadow excuse me, love that I like. Also,

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Speaker 2: how on your show you took out the oh really

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Speaker 2: and yeah at the.

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Speaker 1: Beginning of the song me you really know it? That's

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Speaker 1: for sure.

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Speaker 2: Oh no. I listened to that tune probably about fifteen times,

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Speaker 2: and then I've also played it on guitar a tenth

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Speaker 2: as good as Joe Walsh about three hundred times. So yeah,

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Speaker 2: great tune, cool cool selection. What's your story on it?

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Speaker 2: What is the deal?

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Speaker 1: I mean there's I mean, I'm a big Joe Walsh fan.

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Speaker 1: Joe said I could use it, but I knew the track.

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Speaker 1: But his final albums ABC Dunhill Deal. He put out

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Speaker 1: a live album which was actually a TV show. And

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Speaker 1: I was driving from Salt Lake back to Connecticut and

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Speaker 1: I played the six cassettes that I bought. I never

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Speaker 1: bought cassettes, but I didn't have a tape player. That

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Speaker 1: was one of them, and I think of They'll passed,

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Speaker 1: which used to be difficult but now since has been

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Speaker 1: for many years. Four lane but at the top it's

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Speaker 1: like a meadow and I remember playing that right in

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Speaker 1: that area. But you have a relationship with Eddie Vedder.

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Speaker 1: How do you know Eddie Vedder?

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Speaker 2: Well, I don't know, I'm well, but I've been a

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Speaker 2: fan of Pearl Jam going back to along with about

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Speaker 2: ten billion other people early nineties, with everything that they

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Speaker 2: put out starting in ninety two ninety three. And like

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Speaker 2: I said, love all kind of music. I probably go

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Speaker 2: deepest on country, country, Western, both types of music. But

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Speaker 2: at the same time was always into Zeppelin, Aerosmith and

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Speaker 2: the great guitar players Joe Walsh and the like you

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Speaker 2: name it, but then got into Pearl Jam. And what's

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Speaker 2: interesting is I had a bad skydamming accident about ten

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Speaker 2: years ago. In fact, coming up on the ten year

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Speaker 2: anniversary of that accident, which I want I call my

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Speaker 2: live day. When we talked about that week, certainly can

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Speaker 2: but one of his tunes that I really accidentally came into,

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Speaker 2: accidentally stumbled into, came to me at a very critical

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Speaker 2: moment what I was bleeding out and dying, and I

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Speaker 2: eventually died, but they brought me back and which worked

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Speaker 2: out well. It was a good day. But one of

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Speaker 2: his tunes called just Breathe was halfway through the closing

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Speaker 2: credits of a movie about a very good friend of

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Speaker 2: mine who's a good, great horseman. His name is Buck

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Speaker 2: Branneman out of Sheridan, Wyoming. He had worked with Nicholas

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Speaker 2: Sparks on the movie the book A Horse Whisper with

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Speaker 2: Redford on the movie Horse Whisper. But he had been

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Speaker 2: doing a whole bunch of horse work for years and years,

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Speaker 2: and they made this indie film about him, One Sun Dance,

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Speaker 2: and I'm watching it for the first time and halfway

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Speaker 2: through the ending of the closing credits, just brief comes

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Speaker 2: on and it just doesn't make any sense. I mean,

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Speaker 2: you got to keep in mind that when I introduced

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Speaker 2: Buck in Steamwa Springs, Colorado, where I used to live,

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Speaker 2: to Tanny Tucker, I mean, that was the deal. I

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Speaker 2: mean he thought tannyse the sun rose and said on

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Speaker 2: Tanny Tucker, and he probably right. It probably still does.

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Speaker 2: But in this case caught me off guard because what

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Speaker 2: is a Pearl Jam song doing at the end of

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Speaker 2: a movie about Buck? Brannman curious called him found out

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Speaker 2: four months later. And I had known this song. This

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Speaker 2: song came to me at a very critical crucial time.

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Speaker 1: Right before you get there.

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Speaker 2: How did it end up in the movie. It had

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Speaker 2: to do with his upbringing and his life. And I

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Speaker 2: highly recommend watching this movie. Whether or not you're into

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Speaker 2: horses kind of doesn't matter. And he had a really

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Speaker 2: really rough upbringing in a town called Ennis, Montana, which

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Speaker 2: I happened to live nowadays, about fifteen twenty minutes away

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Speaker 2: from Ennis, and he just got the crap beat out

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Speaker 2: of him by his dad. It was bullshit. Angers me

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Speaker 2: to think about it as part of him navigating that

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Speaker 2: and a's who he is today because of that. He

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Speaker 2: mentioned that song just fit, It just worked, and the

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Speaker 2: song had meeting and more so that's how it kind

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Speaker 2: of related to his It was a tip of the hat,

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Speaker 2: regardless of the music type, tip of the hat to

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Speaker 2: what that song speaks to. Okay, so let's go back

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Speaker 2: ten years ago. You're skydiving. How much experience had you

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Speaker 2: had skydiving? A fair amount. I've got what's called AFF

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Speaker 2: Accelerated free Fall Certification.

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Speaker 1: What is that.

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Speaker 2: It's a licensed certification to jump. It's like get in

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Speaker 2: your driver's license. And I never sought to wanted to

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Speaker 2: jump in a tandem. So I ended up getting AFF

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Speaker 2: this certification, and it ended up jumping a bunch with

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Speaker 2: friends that you might might know of or no from

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Speaker 2: Squaw Valley, JT. Holmes and Timmy Dutton, the late Great

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Speaker 2: Timmy Dutton, and a few others. Charles Bryan RedBull air

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Speaker 2: Force guy, and I had to. I had to. I

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Speaker 2: got to jump with them quite a bit, actually, Paris,

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Speaker 2: Lodi Davis, all over California anytime could find an airplane

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Speaker 2: with the door love jump out of it. So got

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Speaker 2: into that in a substantial way and had a fair

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Speaker 2: amount of experience. The thing is jumping with these guys.

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Speaker 2: I had the opportunity. Most of them had jumps well

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Speaker 2: over ten or fifteen thousand. Most of them actually jump

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Speaker 2: for a living. Most of the guys that I would

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Speaker 2: jump with with whom I would jump excuse me, would

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Speaker 2: would actually be in films. You know. JT worked with

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Speaker 2: on Transformers three. I mean, these are very high level folks.

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Speaker 2: So I was kind of the rookie tagging along. But

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Speaker 2: because of that I got a fair amount of experience

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Speaker 2: quickly and had the opportunity to jump with some outstanding people.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so tell us about this day ten years ago.

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Speaker 2: So, by the way, I love it. Have you ever

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Speaker 2: done it?

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Speaker 1: I never have.

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Speaker 2: By that look, it doesn't look like it's on your well.

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Speaker 1: You know, I like being in control. It's like when

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Speaker 1: someone said, you know, I remember when someone said, let's

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Speaker 1: go to mammoth for the day, and there's this airplane

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Speaker 1: these people have with a parachute whatever. But he was

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Speaker 1: an instrument rated and I said, no, it's like if

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Speaker 1: I'm going to commercial jet, I'm not worried, or if

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Speaker 1: you're flying net jet or something like that. So there's

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Speaker 1: certain Let's put it this way, if I die on

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Speaker 1: the hill, if I run into a tree or god knowed,

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Speaker 1: or an avalanche whatever inbounds, that's okay with me. But

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Speaker 1: there's certain things I don't want to take a risk doing.

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Speaker 1: Begging the question, other than skydiving, are you a limit

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Speaker 1: tester in other areas? Oh.

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Speaker 2: I quote my good friend JT, who he's been on

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Speaker 2: sixty Minutes twice, I think, both times with Anderson Cooper

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Speaker 2: AC and he was asked a questions similarly by Anderson Cooper.

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Speaker 2: Are you an adrenaline junkie? Maybe a different maybe second

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Speaker 2: cousin to your question, right, but pretty close, And he

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Speaker 2: said no, I'm an adrenaline aficionado. So I don't know

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Speaker 2: if I could say testing limits. I've not had a

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Speaker 2: life full of compliance. But at the same time, I

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Speaker 2: don't necessarily volunto. But I just say that maybe I'm

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Speaker 2: not too sure I think about it like that, but

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Speaker 2: I totally well have you have you bungee jumped? Oh?

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Speaker 2: Heck yeah?

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Speaker 1: What other extreme things have you done?

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Speaker 2: Well? I don't know. Uh, gosh, I don't know. I

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Speaker 2: don't know how to define that other than I don't

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Speaker 2: see it think them as extreme. They're just things. I

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Speaker 2: fought wildland fires on a shot crew when I was young,

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Speaker 2: pagd for college. Maybe maybe that's scene by extreme, is

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Speaker 2: extreme by others, but for me, it was a great

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Speaker 2: way to make a living running a chainsaw on on

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Speaker 2: big fires out of southern New Mexico and northern New

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Speaker 2: Mexico and Arizona. Oh, I've done quite a bit of uh.

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Speaker 2: I was backcountry ranger in Rocky Mountain National Park, did

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Speaker 2: quite a bit of hig angle rescue that was more

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Speaker 2: industrial climbing because it was rescue than anything else. But

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Speaker 2: I think some might see Hiengel rescue as being a

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Speaker 2: little bit extreme. I don't know, but I thought it

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Speaker 2: was great.

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Speaker 1: Before you get there, you had this near death experience

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Speaker 1: ten years ago. Prior to that, had you had any

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Speaker 1: experiences were you were on the line.

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Speaker 2: No, And by the way, I have to say, I

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Speaker 2: found out a year later. It wasn't near death. I

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Speaker 2: was dead. I was dead for six minutes. That's why

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Speaker 2: it was a good day, right, Because my arm got

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Speaker 2: torn off. They put it back on. I was dead

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Speaker 2: in the helicopter and they brought me back to life.

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Speaker 2: So in all, October thirteenth was a great day.

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Speaker 1: Okay, a little bit slower. You jump out of the

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Speaker 1: plane and where are you? What happened?

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Speaker 2: Sure? And by the way, you just got to answer

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Speaker 2: one of your five questions there, and that was I

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Speaker 2: love freefall. When there would jump at fourteen thousand feet AGL,

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Speaker 2: which is an acronym for above ground level, and you

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Speaker 2: typically we'll come back to that pull at four thousand AGL.

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Speaker 2: In between fourteen and four thousand feet is ten thousand

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Speaker 2: feet of free falling. And it's just one of the

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Speaker 2: most pure, condemned joyful things I've ever done in my

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Speaker 2: entire life. It doesn't take a particular a great deal

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Speaker 2: of skill or athleticism even but it is fucking fun, man.

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Speaker 2: It is so exhilarating, thrilling joy. From the first time

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Speaker 2: I jumped in Paris, California, getting aff I just couldn't

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Speaker 2: stop smiling. So I just love it. Absolutely love that.

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Speaker 2: And I don't know if that's testing limits or adrenaline whatever,

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Speaker 2: it just all they can do is tell you I

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Speaker 2: love it. But so it was down there, JT and

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Speaker 2: I and other friends would go down and jump down

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Speaker 2: a load. I quite a bit. We lived in Trucky.

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Speaker 2: I was CEO at squad Ally and Alpine Meadows for

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Speaker 2: a little bit. Got hooked into JT. Great guy, great

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Speaker 2: dear friend of mine and the late great Timmy Dutton

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Speaker 2: who died tragically a year later in an air to

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Speaker 2: air accident skydiving the same location. Still breaks my heart

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Speaker 2: to think about Timmy because he's remarkable kid, remarkable young

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Speaker 2: man with an incredible story. He's overcome more than most

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Speaker 2: people have U and he had. He was just the

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Speaker 2: best ever. Talked all show long about Timmy Dutton. But

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Speaker 2: so Timmy, JT and I are jumping. Oh, actually it

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Speaker 2: wasn't this weekend we were jumping with were jumping with

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Speaker 2: some other friends. We had gone down to Davis to jump,

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Speaker 2: but the winds were blusteries, so we got blown out there.

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Speaker 2: They weren't flying that day on that Saturday, so we

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Speaker 2: drove to Lodi, which is not too far from Davis,

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Speaker 2: I guess and load Ie is kind of considered. With

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Speaker 2: a smile on my face, I'd say it's a little

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Speaker 2: bit of the truck stop of drop zones. They kind

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Speaker 2: of are flying and jumping all the time and it's

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Speaker 2: a good place, but it's, you know, just there and

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Speaker 2: it works, and we ended up getting in a load.

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Speaker 2: So what happened is we ended up in classic three

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Speaker 2: or four cloaked things in sequence took place because we

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Speaker 2: have a fair amount of experience jumping. We jumped out

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Speaker 2: of the plane light the last group jumping Number two's

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Speaker 2: pilot flew a slightly bad jump line number three. Importantly,

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Speaker 2: the winds changed fold about one hundred and twenty degrees

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Speaker 2: from the time we took off to the time we

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Speaker 2: got to fourteen thousand feet AGL and the green light

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Speaker 2: came on to jump. And then the last thing is

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Speaker 2: because JT and Timmy and I had jumped quite a

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Speaker 2: bit and those guys base jump, we tend to pull low,

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Speaker 2: so instead of pulling at four thousand feet AGL, which

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Speaker 2: gives you a fair amount of time to remedy problems

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Speaker 2: like a bad wing, a bad canopy or something like that,

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Speaker 2: or spiral kick out of twisted lines. You have time

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Speaker 2: to remedy. But we're pretty competent, and there's that whole

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Speaker 2: confidence competent breakover curve. And I violated that curb right there,

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Speaker 2: pulled low on a day I shouldn't have it. Turns out,

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Speaker 2: the entire plane it was a d day landing. Everybody

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Speaker 2: was scattered. But by the time I pulled it was

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Speaker 2: that twelve hundred feet AGL, pretty close to the ground

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Speaker 2: under canopy, and I didn't Nobody realized that the wines

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Speaker 2: had folded at that point, including me. That's why I

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Speaker 2: was a DDA landing. Everybody went everywhere. So got my

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Speaker 2: canopy up, got a good wing, I'm gonna looking. I'm going, oh,

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Speaker 2: I have a headwind right now, and I should have

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Speaker 2: a tailwind. And when you don't have propulsion like in airplanes,

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Speaker 2: this matters. And so you take off from and you

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Speaker 2: seek to land on the drop zone. Now I'm aiming

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Speaker 2: at the drop zone under canopy at say a thousand

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Speaker 2: feet AGL, and your cent rates pretty decent. And I

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Speaker 2: have a set of power lines in front of me,

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Speaker 2: in front of me and to the right, and a

256
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Speaker 2: couple of buildings, and I remember thinking I think this

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Speaker 2: is a crack up that it's you know, skydiving Onlike skiing,

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Speaker 2: for instance, there's not much of a gradient of injuries right.

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Speaker 2: In other words, skiing you can hurt yourself a little

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Speaker 2: bit or a lot. In skydiving, it's pretty binary. There's

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Speaker 2: not much to it, right. All I could think about

262
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Speaker 2: was the headline kind of the skydiver tried to make

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Speaker 2: it underneath the power lines, right, end up like one

264
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Speaker 2: of those bugs on a bug zapper. Okay, that one

265
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Speaker 2: through my mind was nope. So I look down to

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Speaker 2: my left and now I'm about eight hundred Things move

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Speaker 2: pretty quickly in this moment. Ended up hook turning, So

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Speaker 2: flying my canopy, pull hard left and hook turned into

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Speaker 2: what turned out to be a vineyard. And if you

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Speaker 2: didn't know what in vineyards, they have these very high

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00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:16,839
Speaker 2: tensile strong wires hold up the vines. And I'm lining

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Speaker 2: up this landing. I'm pretty decent under canopy and land

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Speaker 2: and blinding it up. Still a bit of a blustery day,

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Speaker 2: but I'm like, okay, pull this off. Nothing panicky in

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Speaker 2: my mind at this point. But right as I'm flaring,

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Speaker 2: which is you've flown enough to know when you land

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Speaker 2: an airplane, to see the pilots put down the flaps.

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Speaker 2: So when you flare a canopy, it's the same effective

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Speaker 2: things as a plane pulling the flaps down. Right, basically

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Speaker 2: bring yourself to a clothes of land on your feet. Well,

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Speaker 2: right as I'm flaring this, I remember catching out of

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Speaker 2: the front left's risers on my canopy. My parachute pushed

283
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Speaker 2: about foot to the right, and I'm landing in between

284
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Speaker 2: these rows of vines and by god, if that little

285
00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:02,280
Speaker 2: foot it feels like foot. Maybe it was more pushed

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Speaker 2: me enough right right at the right time where one

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Speaker 2: of those high tension wires caught my arm pulled it

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Speaker 2: off and uh and uh at the at the elbow

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Speaker 2: and uh yeah, that's that's okay. Just dont cover that, okay.

290
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Speaker 2: Was it completely detached. It was detached at the elbow,

291
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Speaker 2: and there was this thin strip of tissue turns out

292
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Speaker 2: very valuable thin strip of tissue that was there. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: I know, my my forearm and right hand were kind

294
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Speaker 2: of on the ground ground. I was kneeling because the

295
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Speaker 2: shrouds of my canopy were held up behind me on

296
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Speaker 2: the vines. And uh yeah, so yeah, I was detached

297
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Speaker 2: minus a shred of tissue. And I have to mention

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Speaker 2: this because I again I think it's I look back

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Speaker 2: with it worked out really well that day, it worked

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Speaker 2: out great, and but I reached down. I'll talk about

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Speaker 2: all that I did. I've done a bunch of work

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Speaker 2: in trauma, right, I've been around trauma. And there's a

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Speaker 2: question you asked me about eight minutes ago that I

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Speaker 2: not answered. But I have never had anything like this

305
00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:02,120
Speaker 2: happened to me. But I treated a whole lot of

306
00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:08,840
Speaker 2: people in bad places and trauma, climbing accidents, car accidents,

307
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Speaker 2: you name it. I've done a whole bunch of stuff

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Speaker 2: in trauma. I've been in the blood. I have a

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Speaker 2: stick if you will, and so, but never in this

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Speaker 2: case with myself, if I had something like this, so,

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Speaker 2: I hadn't clicked into that gear yet. But I reached

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Speaker 2: down right when it happened, I looked down. And do

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Speaker 2: you ever see that Money Python movie, Monty Python in

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Speaker 2: the Holy Grail? Of course, remember when the night cuts

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Speaker 2: off his arm as a blood spurt OUTA that was me.

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Speaker 2: It was spurting out, man, it was it was going

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Speaker 2: after it. And I hope that it doesn't gross out

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Speaker 2: some of your listeners.

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Speaker 1: Maybe maybe it is audio. You got to put the

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Speaker 1: metal images.

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Speaker 2: So so, first thing I did was reach down and

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Speaker 2: grab my right forearm with my left hand and tried

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Speaker 2: to reattach it. Tried to put it back, tried to

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Speaker 2: put it back into the elbow socket, and that didn't work.

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Speaker 2: It didn't work, it didn't stay. I was bummed about that.

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Speaker 2: But then then the next you know, eight ten minutes

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Speaker 2: were interesting, to say the least.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Unfortunately, I've been injured a number of times. Usually

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Speaker 1: whatever the science is, you don't feel the pain for

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Speaker 1: a while. When did you ultimately feel the pain? If ever?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I want to hear more about your injuries. I'm

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Speaker 2: sorry for that. Hopefully you had somebody good on you.

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Speaker 1: Well yeah, well listen, I'm here now, but keep going.

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Speaker 2: Good, good guy?

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Speaker 1: How long until you uh so?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? It was, You're right, And I couldn't say that

337
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Speaker 2: I felt pain, but I know maybe a few I

338
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Speaker 2: would say moments, and I lose track of time because

339
00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:50,040
Speaker 2: I've been tracking it. I felt some pain because when

340
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Speaker 2: you have that kind of I had a stub, basically

341
00:17:52,520 --> 00:17:55,280
Speaker 2: a humorous bone sticking out and bleeding out pretty well

342
00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:58,159
Speaker 2: and I'll go back and provide you some other interesting

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Speaker 2: stories about ed vettersong just Breathe that came in my

344
00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:04,480
Speaker 2: background experience and more. It is quite critical how these things,

345
00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:08,720
Speaker 2: in a crazy way converged into one moment my mind.

346
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Speaker 2: But I did feel pain when I took my fist

347
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Speaker 2: because I couldn't make a tourniquet. I just had a

348
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Speaker 2: great tourniquet on my left hand, an altimeter had a

349
00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:21,640
Speaker 2: Velkoz trap, but I couldn't get it off to put

350
00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:26,320
Speaker 2: it back on the stub. So, as most anybody who's listening,

351
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Speaker 2: as any trauma experiencers with you have that kind of bleeding,

352
00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:33,520
Speaker 2: there's two things, tournique or direct pressure. In this case,

353
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Speaker 2: I took my fist and put it underneath my stub

354
00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:39,800
Speaker 2: and slowed down the bleeding. That was painful, I have

355
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Speaker 2: to say. In the past, I've said that that was

356
00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:44,680
Speaker 2: a fair amount of discomfort, but I think it'd be

357
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Speaker 2: fair to call it pain. At that point, I felt

358
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Speaker 2: the pain.

359
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Speaker 1: Okay, so you're in this situation, you're aware enough to

360
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Speaker 1: try to stanch the bleeding. What's going through your mind?

361
00:18:56,400 --> 00:18:59,440
Speaker 1: How does the just Weaze song come along? And how

362
00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:01,119
Speaker 1: long till somebody gets to you.

363
00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:06,120
Speaker 2: Yeah. So after I tried to put my arm back

364
00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:08,680
Speaker 2: in and it didn't work, I was able to do

365
00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:12,399
Speaker 2: I was now kind of in my EMT AMT mode

366
00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:16,680
Speaker 2: and did an assessment of quick assessment of situation. The

367
00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:19,160
Speaker 2: first thing to think about is mechanisms. Was there anything

368
00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:22,560
Speaker 2: else wrong with my body? No neck head, anything like that.

369
00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:27,440
Speaker 2: No good. So then what's glaringly obvious is that I'm bleeding.

370
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Speaker 2: And now I do some quick calculations more in my

371
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Speaker 2: clinical or trauma mode of how fast I'll bleed out

372
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Speaker 2: with that, Now there are arteries that we can sever

373
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Speaker 2: that will bleed out a lot faster. This one's pretty

374
00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:41,240
Speaker 2: in the top five, right, the one that runs down

375
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Speaker 2: your arm.

376
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Speaker 1: And.

377
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Speaker 2: Particularly because I had a slightly accelerated heart rate at

378
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Speaker 2: this point, so leaning out and I remember thinking, I

379
00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:53,440
Speaker 2: think it might have about eight minutes, And that was

380
00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:57,280
Speaker 2: before I staunched the blood. Maybe eight minutes the blood

381
00:19:57,280 --> 00:20:00,679
Speaker 2: flow coming out and was able to to slow that down.

382
00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:03,320
Speaker 2: I said, okay, maybe I bought myself another couple three.

383
00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:06,639
Speaker 2: But point being in that first component, that first element

384
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Speaker 2: of the situation, I was in that full trauma mode,

385
00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:14,720
Speaker 2: and that was kind of the first component, it was okay,

386
00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:17,960
Speaker 2: interesting to say the least, there was a little bit

387
00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:19,920
Speaker 2: more to it. That's probably a good way to tie

388
00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:23,120
Speaker 2: off on that. What's then interesting is I flashed back

389
00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:27,840
Speaker 2: to all of my experience both Heinengel Rescue Rocky mountin

390
00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:31,760
Speaker 2: National Park and a volunteer fire and ambulance crew in

391
00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:38,200
Speaker 2: Northwest Colorado. Everything gunshot wounds too, meaning from hunting and

392
00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:42,879
Speaker 2: you name it. And almost every paramedic, every EMT has

393
00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:44,560
Speaker 2: their stick and they come up on you and you

394
00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:47,720
Speaker 2: probably if you've had this. Hey, Bob, my name is Andy,

395
00:20:48,119 --> 00:20:51,720
Speaker 2: I'm medically trained. I'm here to help you. I want

396
00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:54,639
Speaker 2: you to write and exactly.

397
00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:56,440
Speaker 1: They're very calm, very direct.

398
00:20:56,640 --> 00:21:01,280
Speaker 2: And usually that's to gain information quickly, including meds and

399
00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:05,160
Speaker 2: all that stuff. If you're AO time, alert, awake and oriented,

400
00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:10,000
Speaker 2: and in this case you issue somethings like Bob, I

401
00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:12,240
Speaker 2: wants you to just pay attention to me. All I

402
00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:14,240
Speaker 2: want you to do is breathe. Just breathe, man, that's

403
00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:17,480
Speaker 2: all you're going to do. Two reasons for that. Number One,

404
00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:19,440
Speaker 2: it gives in this case a person in a bad

405
00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:24,680
Speaker 2: place something to think about, which is good regardless of

406
00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:27,160
Speaker 2: where they are in terms of enjoying or enduring pain.

407
00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:31,200
Speaker 2: But number two, critically, the goal there is to keep

408
00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:33,960
Speaker 2: shock away because shock in and of itself is a

409
00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:38,440
Speaker 2: psycho psycho, somatic, psycho, what's the word I'm looking for.

410
00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:41,600
Speaker 2: It's a bodily reaction that is both mental, emotional as

411
00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:45,280
Speaker 2: well as physical to protect the body. And shock will

412
00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:48,760
Speaker 2: kill you. Shock kills so many times because it does

413
00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:51,720
Speaker 2: things to your heart rate, your blood and more. So

414
00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:54,280
Speaker 2: I went into this motive I have to keep shock away,

415
00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:57,040
Speaker 2: and that was part of the tail end of the

416
00:21:57,119 --> 00:22:00,920
Speaker 2: clinical side. And my whole thing is it's not uncommon.

417
00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:03,840
Speaker 2: It's probably seven out of ten empts and parameds have

418
00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:06,680
Speaker 2: just breathed. Bob, I just want you to breathe, and

419
00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:11,560
Speaker 2: just breathe came into my brain. I'm not kidney, but

420
00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:13,760
Speaker 2: I was like a meteor out of the heavens into

421
00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:17,119
Speaker 2: my brain. The tune came into my head that I

422
00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:19,680
Speaker 2: just was learning on the guitar a few months ago.

423
00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:22,000
Speaker 2: I was not aware of it till the Buck Brandaman

424
00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:26,920
Speaker 2: song or movie my good friend Buck, and it really

425
00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:29,639
Speaker 2: helped me a ton, because at that point there was

426
00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:32,240
Speaker 2: not much more I could do. I had stuffed my

427
00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:35,720
Speaker 2: fist underneath the humorous slowed down the bleeding as much

428
00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:38,000
Speaker 2: as I could, and then I was in waiting game

429
00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:40,280
Speaker 2: because I couldn't do anything else because my trouds were

430
00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:43,960
Speaker 2: caught up in the vines behind me and Marma's four.

431
00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:46,280
Speaker 2: I was sitting there and that song came to me.

432
00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:50,760
Speaker 2: And what's interesting is I was applying to myself these

433
00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:53,000
Speaker 2: words that I applied to one hundred and fifty other

434
00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:57,280
Speaker 2: people in rough spots, really tough spots, some of them.

435
00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:01,800
Speaker 2: I'll finish off on that tale with the helicopter. Make

436
00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:05,200
Speaker 2: it to the helicopter is a really important element. But

437
00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:08,200
Speaker 2: that tune came to me and which I can tell

438
00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:11,320
Speaker 2: you it's to me. It's remarkable and fascinating. I've never

439
00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:14,680
Speaker 2: had anything like this ever happened to me my entire life.

440
00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:19,600
Speaker 2: It was this convergence, the bland in my mind and

441
00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:22,560
Speaker 2: the first if you know the song, yes, I understand

442
00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:28,160
Speaker 2: every life must end, maybe not exactly, you know, kind

443
00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:31,840
Speaker 2: of mister Rogers, Disney Sesame Street happy words when you're

444
00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:34,680
Speaker 2: sitting there dying, And at this point, I think I'm think,

445
00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:36,800
Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure I had like a couple three minutes left,

446
00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:41,159
Speaker 2: but the words gave me something to think about, or

447
00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:43,880
Speaker 2: the words myself. But then the lyrics gave me something

448
00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:49,159
Speaker 2: to consider as I sit alone, I know someday we

449
00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:56,080
Speaker 2: must go and incredibly powerful stuff. Bob Man, I gotta

450
00:23:56,119 --> 00:24:01,240
Speaker 2: tell you I had never considered. I always knew about

451
00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:06,639
Speaker 2: the risk of Scott having done stuff, but never been

452
00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:09,320
Speaker 2: in this place. And I guess the punchline. The whole

453
00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:12,600
Speaker 2: thing is, I was certain I was going to die

454
00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:15,640
Speaker 2: of that. It was a clinical thing. It wasn't any

455
00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:18,840
Speaker 2: kind of It was just a clinical, straight up deal.

456
00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:20,879
Speaker 2: I'm not going to make it. There's nobody owhere near

457
00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:24,320
Speaker 2: because it's a d Day landing. Everybody scattered and nobody

458
00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:28,880
Speaker 2: knows I'm here in this vineyard. And those lyrics came

459
00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:31,640
Speaker 2: to me and Bob, they helped me come to peace

460
00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:34,640
Speaker 2: with something I had never even considered, and that was dying.

461
00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:40,639
Speaker 2: It helped me come to peace with death, and that

462
00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:45,600
Speaker 2: made everything perfect. And I was at peace in those

463
00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:49,720
Speaker 2: three four moments, three or four minutes, five minutes, and

464
00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:54,480
Speaker 2: that meant everything. Which I slowed down my breathing, deep breathing,

465
00:24:55,040 --> 00:25:00,640
Speaker 2: and I kept cycling through those lyrics, and I don't

466
00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:03,040
Speaker 2: I've listened to a couple of your podcasts, and I

467
00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:05,600
Speaker 2: tried to think most folks try to be polite and

468
00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:08,800
Speaker 2: try not to cuss a lot. But fucking amazing what

469
00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:12,600
Speaker 2: that song did that afternoon, because the song kept me alive,

470
00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:16,800
Speaker 2: and it did zeroed out in my mind because it

471
00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:21,000
Speaker 2: played a role on the psychology of trauma, psycho all

472
00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:23,359
Speaker 2: the psychological aspects of trauma, what it can do to people.

473
00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:25,920
Speaker 2: And it just stemmed from me saying just breathe because

474
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:28,800
Speaker 2: that was my stick for being amt and didn't know

475
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:32,480
Speaker 2: the song until the Buck movie, and gosh, I don't

476
00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:34,879
Speaker 2: twelve fifteen minutes later, a gaal named Amanda came to

477
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:39,200
Speaker 2: me and she had not had any experience with trauma,

478
00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:42,399
Speaker 2: so I felt badly because she hadn't had any experience

479
00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:45,040
Speaker 2: with trauma, but I had asked her to kind of

480
00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:48,440
Speaker 2: coach her through for forming a tourniquet out of my

481
00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:51,800
Speaker 2: altimeter and that really helped a lot, because then I

482
00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:53,680
Speaker 2: was able to move my left fist out of my

483
00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:58,240
Speaker 2: armpit and then I don't know however, many minutes later,

484
00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:03,000
Speaker 2: ambulance came up. They somebody had already dispatched to Flight

485
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:09,280
Speaker 2: for Life out of UC Davis and so I'll just

486
00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:11,520
Speaker 2: complete the story and you can unpack it as you

487
00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:17,720
Speaker 2: see fit manif shapes. This creates this tournique end up

488
00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:19,679
Speaker 2: getting backboarded. I also think it was a little bit

489
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:21,920
Speaker 2: interesting because it was a volunteer crew from Lodike, California.

490
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:24,200
Speaker 2: He was working on me, and I was somewhat coaching

491
00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:26,720
Speaker 2: them through this, which was kind of freaking some of

492
00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:28,840
Speaker 2: those guys out because they went to put oxygen on

493
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:30,520
Speaker 2: me because I said, guys, I need some MO two

494
00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:33,600
Speaker 2: and they put a nasel caniola on me, and I said, guys,

495
00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:35,920
Speaker 2: I think I'm down quite a few quarts. Do you

496
00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:37,600
Speaker 2: think you could put a mask on me and crank

497
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:40,199
Speaker 2: it to seven? And I remember the guy looking at

498
00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:44,320
Speaker 2: me like the hell, what the hell? And they went

499
00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:45,880
Speaker 2: to the sea collar on me. I said, look, there's

500
00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:47,600
Speaker 2: no mechanism on the neck, but it's cool put a

501
00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:49,760
Speaker 2: sea collar. And put a sea collar on me. I said, no, dude,

502
00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:52,760
Speaker 2: you're putting a size two on me. I'm not twelve.

503
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:55,320
Speaker 2: And so I'm coaching the through again. I thought it

504
00:26:55,440 --> 00:27:01,960
Speaker 2: was funny, but maybe in retrospect itness. Then I hear

505
00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:04,800
Speaker 2: the turbines of the helicopter backboard me. Get me set

506
00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:07,640
Speaker 2: and it turns out they had to a rubber tire

507
00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:11,800
Speaker 2: vehicle in the ambulance to the landing zone for the helicopter.

508
00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 2: And flash back to my days in Rock Ammant National Park.

509
00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:19,920
Speaker 2: There's lots of times we put people on overnight rescues

510
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:24,240
Speaker 2: on Long Peak, Long's Peak and other climbs that honestly,

511
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:27,280
Speaker 2: we would stabilize them, transport them, get them to a

512
00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:30,520
Speaker 2: good spot, and then package them up, get them on

513
00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:33,119
Speaker 2: the helicopter and then fly them down to Denver. And

514
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:35,600
Speaker 2: there was three out of five times there are people

515
00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:37,240
Speaker 2: that there's like, no way they're going to make it.

516
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:41,120
Speaker 2: I'm not kidding you, no way that tragically, that guy's

517
00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:45,440
Speaker 2: a goner. Too much trauma, blood loss, name it internal injuries.

518
00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:49,800
Speaker 2: And it's just amazing, amazing high five and the tip

519
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:53,000
Speaker 2: of the hat. Any pyramids that are flying, the flight

520
00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:56,000
Speaker 2: nurses that are in these helicopters do amazing things. And

521
00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:58,639
Speaker 2: those three at all, those folks, most of them that

522
00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:01,399
Speaker 2: I know about, they live because of the flight nurses.

523
00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:05,199
Speaker 2: And so that came to me as things were. They

524
00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:07,000
Speaker 2: got the right sea color on me, got some O

525
00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:10,600
Speaker 2: two and I'm making my way and I kept singing

526
00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:13,119
Speaker 2: the tune. By this point, JT was on me and

527
00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:17,960
Speaker 2: he was giving me encouragement and he said, you kept

528
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:20,119
Speaker 2: singing the song. We couldn't quite make it out to me.

529
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:22,440
Speaker 2: I was singing it out loud. It was at vetter

530
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:26,320
Speaker 2: song just breathe the entire thing, and couldn't meant so

531
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:27,720
Speaker 2: much to me. At that point I realized how the

532
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:30,520
Speaker 2: value of that song. But inside I was thinking about it.

533
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:31,879
Speaker 2: If I can make it to the helicopter, I have

534
00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:35,399
Speaker 2: a shot, because I had done that so many times

535
00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:39,040
Speaker 2: with others. I might have a shot. Because at that

536
00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:42,600
Speaker 2: point I was starting to get the shroud, you know whatever.

537
00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:45,040
Speaker 2: The I was starting to go. I was starting to

538
00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:48,600
Speaker 2: go leave for good, one way trip. I'm bind strassa.

539
00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:51,720
Speaker 2: But I figured if I could make it to the helicopter,

540
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:55,600
Speaker 2: there's a shot. And fucking amen made it to the helicopter.

541
00:28:56,840 --> 00:29:00,040
Speaker 2: They slammed the doors. I'll never forget my friend, and

542
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:03,400
Speaker 2: asking the flight nurse who had his advisor down, I

543
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:05,200
Speaker 2: think he'll make it, and the guy goes like this,

544
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:07,880
Speaker 2: he shook his head no, and I looked up and

545
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:12,240
Speaker 2: I said, I'm right here. I'm sitting right here, and

546
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:16,000
Speaker 2: they slammed the door. They crank up the turbines, blinding

547
00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:19,440
Speaker 2: lights from the sun, and I was like, I looked

548
00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:21,960
Speaker 2: up to the guy and I said, I put fucking

549
00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:25,080
Speaker 2: everything I could into getting here, and it's all on

550
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:28,480
Speaker 2: you now. I got nothing left to give on this fight.

551
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:31,719
Speaker 2: It was a fifteen to twenty minute fight to get

552
00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:34,800
Speaker 2: to that moment. Apparently I died about a minute and

553
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:41,080
Speaker 2: something later, and this guy brought me back. Amazing, freaking amazing.

554
00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:45,320
Speaker 2: I just love it. So October thirteenth this year and

555
00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:48,080
Speaker 2: a couple of weeks, I'll be going out to Paris,

556
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:51,560
Speaker 2: California and jumping to celebrate my ten year anniversary with

557
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:54,120
Speaker 2: a couple of dear friends, including JT. Holmes. Another good

558
00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:57,440
Speaker 2: friend who's a Navy seal who stepped off about two

559
00:29:57,480 --> 00:29:59,600
Speaker 2: years ago, Zach Armstrong. And We're going to go celebrate

560
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:02,080
Speaker 2: my a love day because I was dead and I'm

561
00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:04,840
Speaker 2: not and I'm alive and I have an arm.

562
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:07,520
Speaker 1: Okay, a couple of things. Have you been jumping in

563
00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:12,120
Speaker 1: between this time? I haven't today. How good is your arm?

564
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:19,600
Speaker 2: It's exceptional because it's there. Took thirty two surgeries to reattach,

565
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 2: it rebuilt it. I left my bicep out there, I

566
00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:29,080
Speaker 2: don't have a bicep, my triceps got trashed. My hand

567
00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:31,560
Speaker 2: kind of Works's back to that little strip that was

568
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:34,440
Speaker 2: still there. How good is it? I don't know how

569
00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:37,960
Speaker 2: to say other than it's there and it functions plenty,

570
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:39,400
Speaker 2: good enough for me to do most everything.

571
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:41,960
Speaker 1: Can you type yes?

572
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:45,320
Speaker 2: And I know this is a podcast, but yeah, by

573
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:46,760
Speaker 2: the full motion here?

574
00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:51,840
Speaker 1: Okay, It's like a doctor will say, most injuries are

575
00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:57,320
Speaker 1: caused by over use and a lot of bad situations

576
00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:00,680
Speaker 1: a result of bad judgment. Oh yeah, are you playing

577
00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:04,000
Speaker 1: this story? Was bad judgment involved?

578
00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:12,400
Speaker 2: Absolutely? And the follow up question is how right I

579
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:17,840
Speaker 2: mentioned earlier about confidence and competence, And when the condence

580
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:23,800
Speaker 2: competence curve is largely in line right with any activity,

581
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:27,200
Speaker 2: including jumping, you tend to be in a decent spot

582
00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:30,800
Speaker 2: because your confidence comes from training, experience, your confidence comes

583
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:34,800
Speaker 2: from execution. Without going too much deeper into that, but

584
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:38,040
Speaker 2: in this case, my confidence was probably outstripping and then

585
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:43,360
Speaker 2: creating a deficit of judgment, and probably the major deficit

586
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:46,440
Speaker 2: in judgment there. The problem was thinking I was too

587
00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:48,560
Speaker 2: cool for school and pulling love. Had I pulled it

588
00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:51,720
Speaker 2: four thousand, three thousand instead of one thousand because I

589
00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:54,880
Speaker 2: was jumping with all these other guys, probably would have

590
00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:57,360
Speaker 2: been able to rectify and remedy the situation in a

591
00:31:57,440 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 2: different situation. In other words, if I had been instead

592
00:31:59,880 --> 00:32:01,920
Speaker 2: of one thousand feet with a tailwind, I might have

593
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:04,200
Speaker 2: been at four thousand feet with a tailwind or thirty

594
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:06,200
Speaker 2: five hundred feet with a tailwind and been able to

595
00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 2: make it over the power lines and not be a headline,

596
00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:13,560
Speaker 2: or choose some other landing area other than vineyards. But

597
00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:17,200
Speaker 2: I was presented with what I was presented with, and

598
00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:20,160
Speaker 2: in that case, it was not good judgment on my part.

599
00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:23,800
Speaker 1: Okay, Usually when something this traumatic happens, you get cancer,

600
00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:28,120
Speaker 1: you have a near death experience for a period of time,

601
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:32,200
Speaker 1: you're so thrilled to be alive that it changes your perspective.

602
00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:37,080
Speaker 1: But that tends to wear off. So it's ten years

603
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:40,760
Speaker 1: later and you have the anniversary. But how long did

604
00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:44,040
Speaker 1: this affect your outlook? Into what degree does it affect

605
00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:44,880
Speaker 1: your outlook today?

606
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:52,280
Speaker 2: Not surprisingly a very informed question. Spent it, Oh gosh,

607
00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:54,520
Speaker 2: I don't know, five months in the hospital something like that,

608
00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:57,240
Speaker 2: in and out of I CUS and whole bunch of

609
00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:01,240
Speaker 2: surgeries ended up having to replicate the first round of

610
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:04,080
Speaker 2: surgeries that I had because they didn't take they took

611
00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:08,360
Speaker 2: veins out of my legs, inverted them, became my humorous

612
00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:12,000
Speaker 2: skin for my legs. My laps are taken out, rebuilt

613
00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:15,600
Speaker 2: the arm, all that kinds of stuff. And in that case,

614
00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:17,960
Speaker 2: it was just about trying to I mean, hell, I

615
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:20,760
Speaker 2: don't know make it through that. So phase one was

616
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:24,800
Speaker 2: glad to be here. What's going on now? And what's

617
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:26,640
Speaker 2: the next surgery? What are we trying to get done

618
00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:31,560
Speaker 2: going I became quite good at surgery, as I have

619
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:33,840
Speaker 2: a pretty good stick when it comes to the antiseesiologist.

620
00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:36,040
Speaker 2: Here's what to do, here's a size tube to intubate me.

621
00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:39,720
Speaker 2: Surgeries longer in eight hours, put goop in my eyes.

622
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:44,240
Speaker 2: Because anyway, made it through that. Then getting out was

623
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:48,680
Speaker 2: the next six months after hospital was in all kinds

624
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:51,360
Speaker 2: of petea and my arm was still the size of

625
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:53,840
Speaker 2: a rugby ball because swelling. I still had ongoing surgeries

626
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:56,239
Speaker 2: went on for a little while, but it'd be fair

627
00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:58,760
Speaker 2: to say that I was pretty heavily medicated. Bob and

628
00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:01,680
Speaker 2: the meds were a mets on board with oxycotton oxy

629
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:04,160
Speaker 2: coot on GABA penton, which is a nerve med, and

630
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:09,440
Speaker 2: in that time frame, it was still about cool that

631
00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:13,800
Speaker 2: I'm here, great that I'm here, encouragement from friends, everybody,

632
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:16,840
Speaker 2: from Jeremy Jones, J T. Holmes, famous people and not

633
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:19,880
Speaker 2: famous people. I didn't care. I was encouraged, glad. But

634
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:24,520
Speaker 2: then the darkness, you know, Tolkien fan, the darkness of

635
00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:27,760
Speaker 2: Mortar set in. And I don't know if it's probably

636
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:30,279
Speaker 2: a combination of things, but the reality is I started

637
00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:34,399
Speaker 2: getting pretty down, pretty f and depressed. I came into

638
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:38,000
Speaker 2: the Jump pretty fit. I was working out, running, traveling,

639
00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:41,000
Speaker 2: all kinds of stuff. But now is me. I was

640
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:43,360
Speaker 2: one hundred and forty five pounds. I was weak, I

641
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:45,600
Speaker 2: had no muscle, and I was working with one pt

642
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:49,400
Speaker 2: guy who's outstanding. You said, Andy, I can see you're bummed,

643
00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:51,960
Speaker 2: But you know, there's a million things you can still do.

644
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:54,600
Speaker 2: There's about seven things you used to do you can

645
00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:56,640
Speaker 2: no longer do. What are you going to focus on?

646
00:34:57,239 --> 00:35:00,000
Speaker 2: And that helped pick me up. But the long tail

647
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:04,160
Speaker 2: be truthful is that for the next year to two years,

648
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:07,759
Speaker 2: I had a pretty damned good excuse to ask for

649
00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:11,800
Speaker 2: some help with pain. And I had doctors that were excellent,

650
00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:15,120
Speaker 2: doctors who were prescribing me opiates to help with that pain,

651
00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:18,480
Speaker 2: and it'd be fair to say that I was. I

652
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:21,240
Speaker 2: had a very difficult time stepping off of the opiate.

653
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:22,080
Speaker 1: So so how did you do it?

654
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:26,600
Speaker 2: Oh gosh, how did I do it? First was I

655
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:31,319
Speaker 2: was at a meeting in Jackson, Hawayoming and I saw

656
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:32,920
Speaker 2: this TV show And I didn't know this Bob. I

657
00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:36,719
Speaker 2: kind of lived in a bit of a cave in

658
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:40,479
Speaker 2: some ways. I watched this network show, a news deal

659
00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:45,680
Speaker 2: on how if some of the heroin addicts, let's face it,

660
00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:48,320
Speaker 2: in the rural West, there's challenges everywhere, right, and that

661
00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:50,360
Speaker 2: includes this is kind of pre fentanyl, I guess in

662
00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:54,200
Speaker 2: some ways. But they talked about heroin addicts will get

663
00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:58,320
Speaker 2: oxyconton oxy cota and if they can't get heroin, and

664
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:02,759
Speaker 2: to scare the shit out of me, I'm not done

665
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:05,320
Speaker 2: drugs my entire life. I'm that guy. I wear wranglers,

666
00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:09,000
Speaker 2: I work with horses, all that kind of stuff. Copenhagen Tequila.

667
00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:12,600
Speaker 2: Never had any need to do drugs, never did In

668
00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:15,440
Speaker 2: this case, I was scared shitless and I stopped for

669
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:19,000
Speaker 2: a bit, but then ended up a couple months later

670
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:21,640
Speaker 2: a couple of bounds with pain, get back in them,

671
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:27,399
Speaker 2: and basically was to help support the words of JT. JT.

672
00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:30,520
Speaker 2: Holmes and other folks around me to get off it.

673
00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:32,840
Speaker 2: And then there's all there two guys, they didn't know it.

674
00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:36,600
Speaker 2: Two guys at the time were with Navy Seal Team

675
00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:39,759
Speaker 2: four Troop two that remained very dear friends of mine

676
00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:44,759
Speaker 2: to this day, Commander Ryan Hall and Zach Armstrong, who's

677
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:50,040
Speaker 2: stepped off, and they caught win through an interesting intersection

678
00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:54,320
Speaker 2: with those guys of what my circumstance was, and they basically,

679
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:57,920
Speaker 2: without necessarily saying it, knowing it, they challenged me to

680
00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:00,120
Speaker 2: get off my ass and stop being a pussy and

681
00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:03,040
Speaker 2: stop being a victim, and get my shit together and

682
00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:07,480
Speaker 2: get fit again. And I couldn't use the word inspired,

683
00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:09,799
Speaker 2: but it was driven by those guys to get better,

684
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:12,439
Speaker 2: and part of that was physically get physically fit again

685
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:17,680
Speaker 2: and get off that off those meds. Different times here

686
00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:20,359
Speaker 2: and there, I found I realized that those things are

687
00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:24,839
Speaker 2: freaking powerful. And also was in that camp of it's

688
00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:26,839
Speaker 2: a lame version of the John Wayne thing. Why take

689
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:32,040
Speaker 2: some oxy cato oxycodone without some Jack Daniels, right, So

690
00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:36,240
Speaker 2: Jack and O and so it was a bad deal truthfully.

691
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:38,399
Speaker 2: So it was a couple three years in there where

692
00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:42,080
Speaker 2: I was in black bad spot, but I pulled out

693
00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:44,480
Speaker 2: the friend JT and others, and also pulled out with

694
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:49,319
Speaker 2: the friends Commander Ryan Hall and Zach Armstrong got back

695
00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:51,520
Speaker 2: into riding my bike. First time I got on a bike.

696
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:54,560
Speaker 2: I'd ridden bikes, race bikes for parts of my life.

697
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:58,040
Speaker 2: I rode for two miles and was exhausted. It was

698
00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:02,400
Speaker 2: so like crap. You got to be kidney, but then

699
00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:04,880
Speaker 2: stuck with it because these guys got my shit together,

700
00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:07,279
Speaker 2: got off. Those had a couple more bouts, but I've

701
00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:10,399
Speaker 2: been able to step off without going to any other

702
00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:12,279
Speaker 2: clinics or anything like that. So that's how.

703
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:15,440
Speaker 1: So as we sit here right now, are you in pain? No?

704
00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:18,680
Speaker 2: I can find it if you want me to, pretty easily,

705
00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:22,520
Speaker 2: but no. Okay, So where are you from? Originally I

706
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:24,440
Speaker 2: am a product of the US Air Force. My dad

707
00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:26,520
Speaker 2: was a fighter pilot. I was born in West Germany,

708
00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:29,920
Speaker 2: back when there was a West and an East Germany, right,

709
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:32,399
Speaker 2: you and I know this now there are folks under

710
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:35,600
Speaker 2: the you know, reminding them, Hey, there used to be

711
00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:39,160
Speaker 2: a West. I'm not talking Western Germany. So West Germany

712
00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:41,000
Speaker 2: and then lived in Scotland. When my dad would go

713
00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:43,800
Speaker 2: over seas to fight in the war fly he flew's

714
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:46,520
Speaker 2: flu F four phantoms. In fact, i'm burying him later

715
00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:50,160
Speaker 2: this week up in Montana. Your father just died, died

716
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:52,480
Speaker 2: about a year and a half ago, and I have

717
00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:55,040
Speaker 2: his remains. His wishes were free for me as a

718
00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:59,320
Speaker 2: young new pilot to fly his ashes over the Grand

719
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:02,600
Speaker 2: Titan National Park. So I'm doing that on Thursday afternoon,

720
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:06,200
Speaker 2: and so yeah, I'm excited to do that and get

721
00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:09,959
Speaker 2: that to honor his wishes. But so son of fighter

722
00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:13,600
Speaker 2: pilot Scotland, Germany, Germany, Scotland. And then I think it

723
00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:15,920
Speaker 2: was about ten or so, moved to southern New Mexico.

724
00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:18,839
Speaker 2: Lived in southern New Mexico for a while Holloman Air

725
00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:22,319
Speaker 2: Force Base, and then we moved to Virginia Langley Air

726
00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:25,319
Speaker 2: Force Bace. And then my dad retired and we ended

727
00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:27,280
Speaker 2: up moving around. But I've been it was in Colorado

728
00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:30,240
Speaker 2: since seventy nine. Moved to Colorado, missourim.

729
00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:34,360
Speaker 1: What year were you born? Sixty three? Okay, So typical

730
00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:38,319
Speaker 1: Air Force brats can get along with anybody because they've

731
00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:42,000
Speaker 1: been moving so much in the relatively self reliant. Would

732
00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:42,880
Speaker 1: that describe you?

733
00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:48,920
Speaker 2: Yeah? The only thing is I resist the ever rebut

734
00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:52,360
Speaker 2: was the word to reject? The word brat? I was

735
00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:55,319
Speaker 2: a prideful son of a fighter pilot. He wasn't much

736
00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:57,000
Speaker 2: of a dad, but he was a kick ass air

737
00:39:57,080 --> 00:40:00,120
Speaker 2: combat warrior and I respect him greatly for that, and

738
00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:01,960
Speaker 2: I don't think he would have ever called me a brat.

739
00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:06,239
Speaker 1: Well that's what I say. Sorry for the judgment. Come on,

740
00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:07,839
Speaker 1: that's a you know, a term.

741
00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:11,279
Speaker 2: Totally kidding you, totally no, no problem, okay, But so

742
00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:15,279
Speaker 2: so the point being is I call it chameleon when

743
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:17,800
Speaker 2: you're when you grew up in that environment, different cultures,

744
00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:21,279
Speaker 2: you learn how chameleon into different places in the answers, Yes,

745
00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:23,239
Speaker 2: I feel like I can fit in almost anywhere I can.

746
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:25,560
Speaker 2: I may not look like I'm from there, but I

747
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:28,520
Speaker 2: can usually figure it out. And I was spent a

748
00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:31,240
Speaker 2: year and a half in Saudi Arabia, Northwest Saudi Arabia

749
00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:34,000
Speaker 2: about two years ago and was great there. Comfortable there,

750
00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:37,200
Speaker 2: It was a little bit warm, but yeah, good to go. Okay, siblings,

751
00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:39,520
Speaker 2: I have an older sister. This is a big thing

752
00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:40,920
Speaker 2: for you, isn't it the family thing?

753
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:43,360
Speaker 1: Well, you want to know where someone comes from. We

754
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:45,719
Speaker 1: got a lot of territory to cover up. I won't

755
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:48,239
Speaker 1: exactly go into why I ask all those questions, but

756
00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:50,920
Speaker 1: you know, in birth order those things really matter. So

757
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:52,360
Speaker 1: when was the first time you skied?

758
00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:56,160
Speaker 2: When I was in we were in southern New Mexico

759
00:40:56,840 --> 00:41:01,960
Speaker 2: and there was a little scaria near due east of Almagordo.

760
00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:05,640
Speaker 2: At that time, it was called Sierra Blanca and it

761
00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:10,359
Speaker 2: was owned by the Muscalleo Apache Indian tribe. And learned

762
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:12,800
Speaker 2: how to ski there as part of a you know,

763
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:14,840
Speaker 2: I don't know, somebody grabbed me, I think id of

764
00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:17,879
Speaker 2: You know, no dads are on the air Force base.

765
00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:21,280
Speaker 2: It's all a tactical air command base, all the squadrons overseas,

766
00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:23,640
Speaker 2: and so I have no idea it took me, but

767
00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:27,320
Speaker 2: went skiing up near Ridoso in southern New Mexico for

768
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:29,279
Speaker 2: a time as skid was air, but then really got

769
00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:32,080
Speaker 2: into it in college for Collins.

770
00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:33,680
Speaker 1: When you get to college, was this the type of

771
00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:36,719
Speaker 1: thing you did once and the Heaven's opened, this is

772
00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:38,400
Speaker 1: my thing? Or did it take a while to be

773
00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:39,720
Speaker 1: that invested.

774
00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:43,080
Speaker 2: Somewhere in between? I couldn't say there was an epiphany

775
00:41:43,239 --> 00:41:46,400
Speaker 2: or a light bulb or heavens open, the clouds parting.

776
00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:48,760
Speaker 2: But at the same time, I was like, this is great.

777
00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:53,399
Speaker 2: Also keep in mind, although the desert is certainly fun

778
00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:55,960
Speaker 2: for a kid when you're ten chasing lizards and stuff,

779
00:41:56,320 --> 00:41:59,000
Speaker 2: you get up to this environment near upt mountains and

780
00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:02,000
Speaker 2: loved that. Right, spend some time in the mountains in

781
00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:05,399
Speaker 2: Scotland and Germany. But I did love it. I loved

782
00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:08,719
Speaker 2: being in that environment and I loved trying something new,

783
00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:19,520
Speaker 2: and so yeah, I did enjoy it, Okay, So tell

784
00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:23,640
Speaker 2: me about getting back into it seriously in college Colorado

785
00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:28,239
Speaker 2: State University, Go Rams was there, and it's just what

786
00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:30,960
Speaker 2: we did Port Collins, Colorado. If you know Colorado, which

787
00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:34,160
Speaker 2: I think you do, we would scheme winter Park Mary

788
00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:36,080
Speaker 2: Jane for the day, but then we would go to

789
00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:39,759
Speaker 2: Steamboat for the weekends because you kick a northerly route

790
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:43,240
Speaker 2: through the Kashlipooter River down into Walden and a crossing

791
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:46,640
Speaker 2: the steamboat. So I just totally dug on it, just

792
00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:50,480
Speaker 2: got way into it, and freshman year on just going

793
00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:52,640
Speaker 2: up with friends winter Park Marriage Jane for the day

794
00:42:52,680 --> 00:42:55,719
Speaker 2: and Steamboat for the weekend. Loved it, Okay. So you

795
00:42:56,080 --> 00:42:59,799
Speaker 2: ultimately work at Steamboat. You graduate from college, what are

796
00:42:59,840 --> 00:43:03,080
Speaker 2: your first jobs and how do you end up at Steamboat? Yeah?

797
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:08,080
Speaker 2: Completely by accident. I was formative elements to answer that

798
00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:09,920
Speaker 2: question of critical I was a back country ranger in

799
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:13,120
Speaker 2: Recommanded National Park. My grandfather ran in the National Park

800
00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:17,440
Speaker 2: Service for three presidents Eisenhower, Kennedy and Johnson. And I

801
00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:20,280
Speaker 2: grew up in a family where he was the patriarch

802
00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:26,600
Speaker 2: or the family. Conrad Worth, you know, respected, sorry, respected, veered,

803
00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:30,840
Speaker 2: remarkable man did incredible things post World War Two for

804
00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:33,320
Speaker 2: our national parks. And I grew up in that environment.

805
00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:36,240
Speaker 2: In fact, was reading the works of Eldo Leopold Santa

806
00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:41,440
Speaker 2: Sound County Almanac, and you know, certainly John Muir. I

807
00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:43,080
Speaker 2: mean I grew up in Some folks grew up in

808
00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:47,600
Speaker 2: households with football teams, religions. Mine was conservation preservation and

809
00:43:47,640 --> 00:43:50,600
Speaker 2: the works of John Muir and Elder Leopold and these

810
00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:56,000
Speaker 2: great people who established this culture and thinking of care

811
00:43:56,120 --> 00:43:59,480
Speaker 2: for the lands. Preservation conservation mean different things. But I

812
00:44:00,239 --> 00:44:04,600
Speaker 2: was aiming that direction. And UH couldn't quite pay for college,

813
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:08,720
Speaker 2: uh doing the rock the ranger thing, So they shifted

814
00:44:08,760 --> 00:44:11,919
Speaker 2: gears to fighting wildland fire. On an initial attack Crew

815
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:15,080
Speaker 2: Type one crew in New Mexico, and UH loved that.

816
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:17,920
Speaker 2: I was a sawyer on a shock crew and made

817
00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:20,200
Speaker 2: a whole bunch of money doing that. I loved debt

818
00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:23,640
Speaker 2: work too. Love debt work, still miss it and the

819
00:44:23,719 --> 00:44:26,560
Speaker 2: crew that we was with, but couldn't see a career

820
00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:30,200
Speaker 2: developing out of either of those deals. But I certainly

821
00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:34,440
Speaker 2: loved the mountains. Was headed to grad school. Was actually

822
00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:37,680
Speaker 2: accepted to a really nice UH university up in northern

823
00:44:37,719 --> 00:44:41,640
Speaker 2: California to study what I was going to get my MBA. Yep,

824
00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:44,240
Speaker 2: I had shifted and took a whole bunch of business classes.

825
00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:48,120
Speaker 2: Took the LSATZ, figured I was I know you were

826
00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:50,440
Speaker 2: an attorney. I thought about becoming an attorney, went nah,

827
00:44:51,080 --> 00:44:52,600
Speaker 2: ended up getting my I was headed to get my

828
00:44:52,719 --> 00:44:55,480
Speaker 2: MBA applied to him. Was shocked to get accepted to

829
00:44:55,560 --> 00:44:58,560
Speaker 2: a very high end program. I freaking hate name dropping,

830
00:44:58,680 --> 00:44:59,800
Speaker 2: so I'm not going to say it, but it was

831
00:44:59,840 --> 00:45:03,480
Speaker 2: a really nice school in northern California. But then all

832
00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:05,719
Speaker 2: of a sudden, somebody told me I needed to my

833
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:07,320
Speaker 2: counselor said, hey, by the way, you need to do

834
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:10,359
Speaker 2: an internship to complete your undergraduate degree. And they're going

835
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:12,239
Speaker 2: to need. You're going to have to have that be

836
00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:15,680
Speaker 2: where you start school at getting your MBA. It's like,

837
00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:17,600
Speaker 2: oh crap. At that time, I was on the crew

838
00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:20,239
Speaker 2: team rowing for this school. I had gone over to

839
00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:24,400
Speaker 2: Europe into a year in Scotland University of Edinburgh study

840
00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:27,880
Speaker 2: history and economics. There, worked for my uncle on weekends

841
00:45:28,040 --> 00:45:31,120
Speaker 2: up in the Highlands. Came back was now extended a

842
00:45:31,160 --> 00:45:33,680
Speaker 2: little bit because some of the credits and transfer. Long

843
00:45:33,719 --> 00:45:36,560
Speaker 2: story short is was head of that direction.

844
00:45:36,760 --> 00:45:37,000
Speaker 1: Crap.

845
00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:40,440
Speaker 2: I got to do this internship. What the hell? And

846
00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:45,359
Speaker 2: just aircraft carriers slammed into an internship at Steamboat Ski

847
00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:50,120
Speaker 2: Area June two of nineteen eighty six. I started, and

848
00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:54,200
Speaker 2: I was quite by accident. It was completely velcrode and

849
00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:56,800
Speaker 2: duct taped together, and it was just to punch a

850
00:45:57,280 --> 00:46:01,520
Speaker 2: you know, to check off a box. And it turns

851
00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:04,640
Speaker 2: out dumb luck. A lot of my it's been good fortune,

852
00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:06,799
Speaker 2: dumb luck. But I can work pretty hard. But at

853
00:46:06,840 --> 00:46:09,080
Speaker 2: the same time, I'm never the smartest person in the room.

854
00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:11,160
Speaker 2: In this case, I was the only person in this

855
00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:13,440
Speaker 2: entire company at Steamboat who knew how to run these

856
00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:17,000
Speaker 2: new things called spreadsheets. It was lotus one point one

857
00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:21,680
Speaker 2: two X and I became as an intern because I

858
00:46:21,840 --> 00:46:24,760
Speaker 2: was there willing to do anything. It was an unpaid internship,

859
00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:27,960
Speaker 2: so I worked internship from eight thirty am to five.

860
00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:31,200
Speaker 2: I was racing road bikes two so I'd train and

861
00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:32,879
Speaker 2: then try and sleep for a few hours, and then

862
00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:35,480
Speaker 2: I'd work at midnight as a night time monitor at

863
00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:38,359
Speaker 2: a hotel in Steamboat to try and make some money

864
00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:42,279
Speaker 2: because internship didn't pay. But it was like hell bent

865
00:46:42,320 --> 00:46:45,440
Speaker 2: to get it done. A couple months and so go in.

866
00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:51,680
Speaker 2: But in that period of time was able to become welcomed,

867
00:46:51,760 --> 00:46:53,960
Speaker 2: I guess you could say by the CFO, the VP

868
00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:56,880
Speaker 2: of marketing, the president of the company, and through that

869
00:46:57,000 --> 00:46:59,000
Speaker 2: work with Excel, I ended up by the end of

870
00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:01,000
Speaker 2: the internship they said, hey, why don't you stay here

871
00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:02,400
Speaker 2: and work force for a couple of years, then go

872
00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:05,640
Speaker 2: get your MBA, into which case I'll never forget, thinking, well,

873
00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:07,400
Speaker 2: this is cool, I get to go right now at

874
00:47:07,480 --> 00:47:10,520
Speaker 2: least combine my love of living in the mountains, skiing,

875
00:47:11,080 --> 00:47:14,440
Speaker 2: and some kind of viable work in making money doing

876
00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:18,919
Speaker 2: something other than hengel rescue or fighting wild land fire.

877
00:47:19,560 --> 00:47:22,879
Speaker 2: And it was completely by accident, Bob, that I ended

878
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:24,279
Speaker 2: up in the ski business. And that's how.

879
00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:29,080
Speaker 1: Okay, needles say you never left for MBA school, That's right.

880
00:47:29,239 --> 00:47:33,160
Speaker 1: If you work in the ski business frequently, you don't

881
00:47:33,239 --> 00:47:37,359
Speaker 1: ski that much. So you're working at Steamboat. How many

882
00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:38,640
Speaker 1: years were you at Steamboat?

883
00:47:39,360 --> 00:47:40,600
Speaker 2: Twenty just under twenty years?

884
00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:43,239
Speaker 1: How much did you actually ski? If you're there for

885
00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:45,480
Speaker 1: twenty years, you were moved up the corporate ladder.

886
00:47:45,719 --> 00:47:49,600
Speaker 2: It points extremely well made. And the answer is always

887
00:47:49,680 --> 00:47:51,719
Speaker 2: never as much as you want, and never as much

888
00:47:52,040 --> 00:47:55,640
Speaker 2: as people think. To your point, and gosh, I don't know.

889
00:47:55,840 --> 00:47:59,200
Speaker 2: I loved it. I loved Steamboat. I love champagne powder snow,

890
00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:03,279
Speaker 2: really light dry snow that falls very uniquely in a

891
00:48:03,320 --> 00:48:05,840
Speaker 2: few places. You were a little cottonwood guy at some point, right,

892
00:48:06,800 --> 00:48:09,479
Speaker 2: and there's very police places on the planet where snow

893
00:48:09,520 --> 00:48:13,960
Speaker 2: falls with that level that moisture content. Right, and go

894
00:48:14,120 --> 00:48:17,120
Speaker 2: techy on you if you want there. But loved it.

895
00:48:17,239 --> 00:48:20,000
Speaker 2: And I don't know, I'm probably skied twenty five thirty

896
00:48:20,040 --> 00:48:22,680
Speaker 2: five times a year, but I was definitely working hard.

897
00:48:23,120 --> 00:48:25,759
Speaker 2: And so I quickly ended up with a family and

898
00:48:25,840 --> 00:48:30,080
Speaker 2: a couple of step kids, and ended up with a

899
00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:32,360
Speaker 2: place north of Steamboat, a little horse ranch north of

900
00:48:32,440 --> 00:48:35,440
Speaker 2: steamboat about eighteen miles. So I ended up working two

901
00:48:35,680 --> 00:48:38,840
Speaker 2: sometimes three jobs just to pull things together. So I

902
00:48:38,920 --> 00:48:40,200
Speaker 2: didn't ski much because of that.

903
00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:42,640
Speaker 1: Oh well, if you're working for the corporation, what are

904
00:48:42,680 --> 00:48:43,719
Speaker 1: the other jobs you're doing.

905
00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:47,240
Speaker 2: I was pretty handy with a chainsaw, so on weekends

906
00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:50,040
Speaker 2: i'd go help a fella who had a business where

907
00:48:50,080 --> 00:48:54,440
Speaker 2: he was clearing brush and clearing out places for people.

908
00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:57,080
Speaker 2: And I was kind of a hard worker and could

909
00:48:57,080 --> 00:49:00,360
Speaker 2: work a saw pretty well, so I did that. I

910
00:49:00,480 --> 00:49:03,360
Speaker 2: also would pick up pick up different kind of miniature,

911
00:49:04,120 --> 00:49:07,880
Speaker 2: many consulting jobs with folks using my spreadsheet skills and

912
00:49:07,960 --> 00:49:13,960
Speaker 2: some modeling quantitative analytics, and those weren't particularly taxing, but

913
00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:14,879
Speaker 2: they took a lot of time.

914
00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:19,040
Speaker 1: Okay, who owned steamboat when you started?

915
00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:22,360
Speaker 2: Yeah? Great, great guy by the name Martin Hart in

916
00:49:22,480 --> 00:49:24,759
Speaker 2: a consortium of other owners, and that was in eighty six.

917
00:49:25,200 --> 00:49:28,000
Speaker 2: He ended up selling it in eighty nine to a

918
00:49:28,120 --> 00:49:32,640
Speaker 2: Japanese group called Kamori Kanko. And because of my spreadsheet

919
00:49:32,680 --> 00:49:35,520
Speaker 2: skills and the quantitative quant I was a bit of

920
00:49:35,560 --> 00:49:39,400
Speaker 2: a quant. I got pulled pretty quickly into the transaction

921
00:49:39,719 --> 00:49:44,080
Speaker 2: and running the analysis, sorry, running analysis in the like

922
00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:49,359
Speaker 2: to help facilitate that transaction. So yeah, it was Martin Hart.

923
00:49:49,800 --> 00:49:53,240
Speaker 2: Wonderful gentleman, great guy, deep roots in the Steamboat community.

924
00:49:53,280 --> 00:49:55,320
Speaker 2: He was on the board at Pepsi for instance, PepsiCo

925
00:49:56,040 --> 00:49:58,319
Speaker 2: and others. Just brilliant guy of a lot of roots

926
00:49:58,360 --> 00:50:01,720
Speaker 2: in Steamboat. And then Kamara Japanese group out of support

927
00:50:01,760 --> 00:50:04,320
Speaker 2: about it, and I'll stop there. I think I've answered

928
00:50:04,320 --> 00:50:04,719
Speaker 2: your question.

929
00:50:05,320 --> 00:50:07,680
Speaker 1: Okay, so you left. Who owned it.

930
00:50:09,400 --> 00:50:13,920
Speaker 2: When I left? Yeah, oh that was okay, Now fastward,

931
00:50:13,960 --> 00:50:19,640
Speaker 2: So it's Kimora Kanko and then we bought Heavenly and

932
00:50:19,719 --> 00:50:22,000
Speaker 2: now I have to recreate this in my mind. And

933
00:50:22,120 --> 00:50:26,759
Speaker 2: then there's American Skiing Company less Hoten the Canyons, and

934
00:50:26,800 --> 00:50:29,840
Speaker 2: I had some responsibility for a bunch of resorts on that.

935
00:50:30,200 --> 00:50:33,840
Speaker 2: In that case you're from New England. Absolutely, So I

936
00:50:33,960 --> 00:50:36,360
Speaker 2: ended up pretty close to moving to Bethel, Maine to

937
00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:38,200
Speaker 2: work with American Ski Company. It was like, man, this

938
00:50:38,280 --> 00:50:41,680
Speaker 2: is pretty cool town nothing in my life had I

939
00:50:41,840 --> 00:50:45,560
Speaker 2: seen like it was like a TV movie set, like

940
00:50:45,880 --> 00:50:48,080
Speaker 2: town Square. And all ended up not going there but

941
00:50:48,640 --> 00:50:53,479
Speaker 2: American Skiing Company and we ended up, long story short,

942
00:50:53,640 --> 00:50:56,399
Speaker 2: ended up selling it to a group called Fortress Investment Group,

943
00:50:56,840 --> 00:51:00,319
Speaker 2: large pe firm they might have nowadays probably two three

944
00:51:00,400 --> 00:51:03,919
Speaker 2: hundred million billion under management. In that case, guy named

945
00:51:04,239 --> 00:51:07,640
Speaker 2: Wes Edens was one of the four founders of Fortress.

946
00:51:07,960 --> 00:51:10,080
Speaker 2: He was a skier. He went to Montana State undergraduate

947
00:51:10,280 --> 00:51:12,800
Speaker 2: ski racer, then he went to Harvard, got his MBA,

948
00:51:13,200 --> 00:51:15,440
Speaker 2: then off to the races. But he was held bent

949
00:51:15,560 --> 00:51:19,160
Speaker 2: for owning Steamboat. He also contemporaneously was working on a

950
00:51:19,200 --> 00:51:22,520
Speaker 2: transaction with Buying Interest, which was a Canadian owned company

951
00:51:23,160 --> 00:51:26,320
Speaker 2: sold on the Toronto Stock Exchange, the TSX. So he

952
00:51:26,480 --> 00:51:31,000
Speaker 2: bought Fortress, bought Interest the same rough time bought Steamboat.

953
00:51:31,120 --> 00:51:34,520
Speaker 2: I was a big part of that transaction and was

954
00:51:34,560 --> 00:51:36,520
Speaker 2: there for a little bit, and then it got pulled

955
00:51:36,600 --> 00:51:40,200
Speaker 2: up to Vancouver to work with the parent up there,

956
00:51:40,239 --> 00:51:42,719
Speaker 2: the parent company up in Vancouver, Canada. And had a

957
00:51:43,080 --> 00:51:45,960
Speaker 2: just great time up there because its forty eight or

958
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:48,640
Speaker 2: an hour forty eight minutes away from Whistler. Skied got

959
00:51:48,719 --> 00:51:51,399
Speaker 2: up there as much as I possibly could, and went

960
00:51:51,400 --> 00:51:54,920
Speaker 2: back and forth between Steamboat and Vancouver, and I stepped

961
00:51:54,960 --> 00:51:59,399
Speaker 2: off Steamboat. Stepped out of Steamboat in twenty ten as

962
00:51:59,480 --> 00:52:01,840
Speaker 2: part of an eu nique circumstance with Squaw Valley to

963
00:52:01,880 --> 00:52:02,919
Speaker 2: acquire Squad Valley.

964
00:52:04,520 --> 00:52:08,520
Speaker 1: Okay, you worked at Squaw Valley for how many years total?

965
00:52:09,760 --> 00:52:12,359
Speaker 2: Shoot? Seven I think?

966
00:52:13,080 --> 00:52:14,879
Speaker 1: And when was the last year you were there?

967
00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:17,800
Speaker 2: I believe it was twenty seventeen, but I reserved the

968
00:52:17,880 --> 00:52:18,479
Speaker 2: right to be wrong.

969
00:52:18,680 --> 00:52:24,240
Speaker 1: Okay. So there's been an incredible modernization in Olympic Valley.

970
00:52:24,320 --> 00:52:28,160
Speaker 1: There's been the gondola between Alpine and Squaw. H How

971
00:52:28,239 --> 00:52:30,680
Speaker 1: much of that was in place in terms of plans

972
00:52:30,719 --> 00:52:31,719
Speaker 1: before you got there?

973
00:52:32,920 --> 00:52:33,160
Speaker 2: None?

974
00:52:34,640 --> 00:52:37,520
Speaker 1: So that is something. Let's just talk about the link

975
00:52:37,560 --> 00:52:40,240
Speaker 1: between Alpine and Squad That has been something that's bandied

976
00:52:40,280 --> 00:52:44,480
Speaker 1: about for decades. How did you finally make that happen?

977
00:52:46,160 --> 00:52:47,680
Speaker 2: I'll give you as brief an answer as I can.

978
00:52:48,120 --> 00:52:52,640
Speaker 2: So I took the role running as CEO of Squad Valley.

979
00:52:53,400 --> 00:52:55,440
Speaker 2: Prior to that, a year prior, I'd gone down to

980
00:52:55,440 --> 00:52:57,920
Speaker 2: Squad Valley with an asset manager from Fortress to buy it.

981
00:53:00,200 --> 00:53:02,000
Speaker 2: Got to know the asset. If you will allow me

982
00:53:02,120 --> 00:53:04,120
Speaker 2: to talk, not like a skier for a moment and

983
00:53:04,200 --> 00:53:07,520
Speaker 2: more like a pe guy for a moment. I have

984
00:53:07,600 --> 00:53:10,560
Speaker 2: as much passion for mountains as skiing as anybody, But

985
00:53:10,680 --> 00:53:13,239
Speaker 2: at the same time I had a role and got

986
00:53:13,280 --> 00:53:16,000
Speaker 2: to know the business pretty well at that time, the

987
00:53:17,360 --> 00:53:20,440
Speaker 2: widow of Alex Cushing kind of the kind of the founder.

988
00:53:20,640 --> 00:53:22,879
Speaker 2: One could argue that Polsons founded it. I think they'd

989
00:53:22,920 --> 00:53:27,480
Speaker 2: be right in that assertion, but Nancy Cushing was only

990
00:53:27,520 --> 00:53:29,720
Speaker 2: willing to sell that time forty two percent of the company,

991
00:53:29,960 --> 00:53:32,719
Speaker 2: which was a no go. But in the meantime I

992
00:53:32,800 --> 00:53:35,040
Speaker 2: learned a lot about it and it was WHOA, this

993
00:53:35,239 --> 00:53:40,120
Speaker 2: is a incredible mountain. Incredible mountain. A year later got

994
00:53:40,160 --> 00:53:41,800
Speaker 2: a call out of a clear blue sky from a

995
00:53:42,800 --> 00:53:45,839
Speaker 2: CEO that I knew from American Skiing Company. Instreingly enough,

996
00:53:45,880 --> 00:53:50,120
Speaker 2: and some family litigation had been settled and Nancy Kushing

997
00:53:50,160 --> 00:53:52,640
Speaker 2: no longer had controlling interest of the company. Part of

998
00:53:52,680 --> 00:53:55,800
Speaker 2: the settlement was that she was now a minority shareholder

999
00:53:56,200 --> 00:53:58,240
Speaker 2: and I was asked to come out and be CEO

1000
00:53:58,280 --> 00:54:03,640
Speaker 2: of Squad Valley at that time, and this is not

1001
00:54:03,719 --> 00:54:06,560
Speaker 2: necessarily a scoop, but first time really discussed this publicly.

1002
00:54:08,719 --> 00:54:12,000
Speaker 2: Some of the family members had us, what's it take

1003
00:54:12,080 --> 00:54:14,560
Speaker 2: to get you here? And I said, really, this is

1004
00:54:14,640 --> 00:54:18,080
Speaker 2: a place where careers go to die. And I love

1005
00:54:18,120 --> 00:54:22,560
Speaker 2: the mountain and I love the area. Such incredible mountain,

1006
00:54:23,760 --> 00:54:26,080
Speaker 2: but from a career perspective. I'm on a pretty good track.

1007
00:54:26,640 --> 00:54:28,759
Speaker 2: I know the asset really well. I know what could

1008
00:54:28,840 --> 00:54:30,640
Speaker 2: happen here. Boy, I am going to do this, And

1009
00:54:31,080 --> 00:54:33,080
Speaker 2: they said, what's it taken said, well, honestly, this place

1010
00:54:33,160 --> 00:54:36,680
Speaker 2: needs new ownership more than anything else. And they said,

1011
00:54:36,920 --> 00:54:39,040
Speaker 2: can you help us with that? I said, yeah, past

1012
00:54:39,120 --> 00:54:41,440
Speaker 2: ten years, I've been working in the strategic side of things,

1013
00:54:41,520 --> 00:54:43,839
Speaker 2: or George Bush would say the strategicy side of things.

1014
00:54:45,160 --> 00:54:47,759
Speaker 2: So in this case, I said, yeah, if you guys

1015
00:54:47,840 --> 00:54:49,919
Speaker 2: want me to line up a transaction with this place,

1016
00:54:49,960 --> 00:54:52,520
Speaker 2: I guarantee you I can line it up. So before

1017
00:54:53,880 --> 00:54:57,959
Speaker 2: taking the role and just on a handshake, I lined

1018
00:54:58,040 --> 00:55:02,479
Speaker 2: up transaction A perspective buyer turns out was a group

1019
00:55:03,680 --> 00:55:06,440
Speaker 2: called the KSL Capital Partners based out of Cherry Creek, Colorado.

1020
00:55:06,760 --> 00:55:11,000
Speaker 2: They were number two behind Fortress and acquiring Steamboat, so

1021
00:55:11,040 --> 00:55:14,319
Speaker 2: I knew them pretty well. A couple former Veil guys

1022
00:55:14,400 --> 00:55:17,840
Speaker 2: were running the show. Three Veil guys were Veiled associates

1023
00:55:17,840 --> 00:55:19,640
Speaker 2: guys running the show down there, and knew them pretty well.

1024
00:55:20,239 --> 00:55:22,480
Speaker 2: And I started August two, and I think it was

1025
00:55:22,560 --> 00:55:26,080
Speaker 2: by September tenth, I had an exclusive letter of intent

1026
00:55:26,520 --> 00:55:31,759
Speaker 2: in hand from KSL interested in acquiring Squad Valley. Ended

1027
00:55:31,800 --> 00:55:37,279
Speaker 2: up a very sophisticated financial a group on one side

1028
00:55:37,360 --> 00:55:40,640
Speaker 2: and something not that on the other side. With Squad Valley.

1029
00:55:40,680 --> 00:55:43,279
Speaker 2: I was brand new. I didn't know much frankly, but

1030
00:55:43,600 --> 00:55:46,400
Speaker 2: was able to push that transaction through where we closed

1031
00:55:46,480 --> 00:55:50,239
Speaker 2: on the transaction I think October fifteenth, October twentieth, so

1032
00:55:50,360 --> 00:55:52,640
Speaker 2: in about thirty forty five days, closed on the transaction,

1033
00:55:52,760 --> 00:55:55,120
Speaker 2: which is lightning speed in almost any case, and the

1034
00:55:55,160 --> 00:55:58,719
Speaker 2: one hundred and seventy three million bucks on that transaction,

1035
00:55:59,239 --> 00:56:03,640
Speaker 2: and celebrated for about fifteen minutes, went for a few turns,

1036
00:56:03,680 --> 00:56:07,000
Speaker 2: then immediately turned my attention to Alpine Meadows. Turned on

1037
00:56:07,120 --> 00:56:11,239
Speaker 2: my heels, started reaching out to the PE Group small

1038
00:56:11,280 --> 00:56:16,839
Speaker 2: PE group out of California called JMA JMA based out

1039
00:56:16,840 --> 00:56:21,200
Speaker 2: of San Francisco to inquire about buying Alpine Meadows, and

1040
00:56:21,719 --> 00:56:24,800
Speaker 2: so was able to line up a transaction to acquire

1041
00:56:24,840 --> 00:56:29,120
Speaker 2: Alpine Meadows about a year and changed later November fifteenth

1042
00:56:30,160 --> 00:56:36,600
Speaker 2: see eleven. Yeah, twenty eleven, arranged that transaction for that transaction,

1043
00:56:36,719 --> 00:56:39,200
Speaker 2: I think we closed on December two, and now we

1044
00:56:39,320 --> 00:56:41,759
Speaker 2: have Squad Valley Alpine Meadows, and in that meantime, in

1045
00:56:41,840 --> 00:56:44,640
Speaker 2: the meantime, part of the investment thesis and the analytics

1046
00:56:44,680 --> 00:56:48,680
Speaker 2: and the transaction is to the why included. Yeah, connecting

1047
00:56:48,719 --> 00:56:51,640
Speaker 2: these two mountains is something that would be desirable. We

1048
00:56:51,680 --> 00:56:54,400
Speaker 2: were definitely not and yours truly was definitely not the

1049
00:56:54,400 --> 00:56:57,440
Speaker 2: first person to consider that. Right, There'd been lots and

1050
00:56:57,560 --> 00:57:00,160
Speaker 2: lots and lots of stuff that had happened prior a

1051
00:57:00,239 --> 00:57:03,200
Speaker 2: lot because mister Cushing and some of the ire he

1052
00:57:03,280 --> 00:57:08,520
Speaker 2: had raised with folks have pretty substantial hold sway in

1053
00:57:08,600 --> 00:57:17,080
Speaker 2: northern California, including Hewlett's anyway, So yeah, that's uh, there's

1054
00:57:17,080 --> 00:57:18,880
Speaker 2: a little bit more to it, but that's the most

1055
00:57:18,920 --> 00:57:19,640
Speaker 2: the samets, right.

1056
00:57:19,800 --> 00:57:22,960
Speaker 1: Okay, for years, you have this guy who owns a

1057
00:57:23,040 --> 00:57:26,560
Speaker 1: piece of land white Wolf, bought a lift, the towers

1058
00:57:26,600 --> 00:57:30,000
Speaker 1: are installed. I've been hearing about it for years. That

1059
00:57:30,240 --> 00:57:34,360
Speaker 1: is in the area between Alpine and Squaw. Why was

1060
00:57:34,480 --> 00:57:38,520
Speaker 1: that not rolled into the expansion connection?

1061
00:57:40,040 --> 00:57:43,320
Speaker 2: Troy Caldwell, this guy's name is good pal, good friend,

1062
00:57:44,000 --> 00:57:48,080
Speaker 2: and before I closed on, before I closed on buying

1063
00:57:48,120 --> 00:57:50,920
Speaker 2: Alpine Meadows, had quite a few meetings with him and

1064
00:57:51,000 --> 00:57:54,200
Speaker 2: said Troy just literally over his place with Troy and

1065
00:57:54,240 --> 00:57:57,040
Speaker 2: Suzy makes ZUZI makes great bunt cake by the way,

1066
00:57:58,880 --> 00:58:04,400
Speaker 2: and we're going to complete this transaction, it's really unlikely

1067
00:58:04,480 --> 00:58:07,720
Speaker 2: it doesn't go through. Without going into too much detail,

1068
00:58:08,400 --> 00:58:11,680
Speaker 2: and the next conversation is a real serious conversation about

1069
00:58:11,720 --> 00:58:14,560
Speaker 2: what's it take to work with you on some means

1070
00:58:14,600 --> 00:58:18,120
Speaker 2: by which can connect the two resorts. It turns out

1071
00:58:18,200 --> 00:58:20,040
Speaker 2: that how Troy ended up getting the land is a

1072
00:58:20,160 --> 00:58:24,280
Speaker 2: fascinating story associated with the I can't remember the name

1073
00:58:24,280 --> 00:58:26,400
Speaker 2: of the railway companies used to own most of the

1074
00:58:26,480 --> 00:58:29,920
Speaker 2: land in the West, particularly this area. He ended up

1075
00:58:29,920 --> 00:58:34,720
Speaker 2: buying it from the CEO of this railway train company.

1076
00:58:36,920 --> 00:58:40,000
Speaker 2: I can't remember how much he paid for it, but

1077
00:58:40,080 --> 00:58:42,920
Speaker 2: it was a below market deal and it was a

1078
00:58:43,000 --> 00:58:46,720
Speaker 2: pretty key piece of land. But he was clearly, and

1079
00:58:46,800 --> 00:58:49,439
Speaker 2: I say this very respectfully, not interested in selling. Wasn't

1080
00:58:49,440 --> 00:58:52,000
Speaker 2: interested in being part of the transaction. Like he said,

1081
00:58:52,040 --> 00:58:54,600
Speaker 2: He'd put up on his own accord a couple of

1082
00:58:54,680 --> 00:58:56,560
Speaker 2: lift towers and had intent to make a go of

1083
00:58:56,600 --> 00:58:59,120
Speaker 2: it himself. And how could you not freaking respect that

1084
00:58:59,440 --> 00:59:02,720
Speaker 2: guys got some key land that he has, he acquired,

1085
00:59:02,760 --> 00:59:04,800
Speaker 2: he put his heart and soul into it. He became

1086
00:59:04,840 --> 00:59:08,560
Speaker 2: a good friend and so we But we had also initiated, well,

1087
00:59:09,480 --> 00:59:11,160
Speaker 2: there's not going to be a transaction here for us

1088
00:59:11,160 --> 00:59:13,080
Speaker 2: to acquire this land, which it looked like for us

1089
00:59:13,120 --> 00:59:16,240
Speaker 2: to establish long term lease. And we started on that

1090
00:59:16,520 --> 00:59:19,680
Speaker 2: in earnest summer of eleven I think was our fall

1091
00:59:19,720 --> 00:59:23,760
Speaker 2: of eleven, and it took a little while to design it,

1092
00:59:24,160 --> 00:59:28,920
Speaker 2: but it came to pass. I guess December this last winter, right, yeah, December,

1093
00:59:29,040 --> 00:59:31,720
Speaker 2: this last winter. I go into that in great detail,

1094
00:59:31,760 --> 00:59:32,640
Speaker 2: more detail if you'd like.

1095
00:59:33,920 --> 00:59:35,760
Speaker 1: Well, I just don't know. The guy's not going to

1096
00:59:35,800 --> 00:59:39,960
Speaker 1: live forever, and now people can't ski on it. I mean,

1097
00:59:40,080 --> 00:59:43,120
Speaker 1: isn't it inevitable that it becomes part of Alpine's bois

1098
00:59:43,520 --> 00:59:44,640
Speaker 1: now called Palisads.

1099
00:59:44,880 --> 00:59:48,080
Speaker 2: You know what's interesting is, you know I left before

1100
00:59:48,400 --> 00:59:52,240
Speaker 2: I had negotiated over many years and executed a great

1101
00:59:52,240 --> 00:59:57,800
Speaker 2: many contracts, but many of those were probably modified or

1102
00:59:57,840 --> 01:00:00,760
Speaker 2: new agreements, and I don't have visibility into those, but

1103
01:00:00,840 --> 01:00:02,960
Speaker 2: I can tell you the conversations that Troy and I

1104
01:00:03,160 --> 01:00:06,400
Speaker 2: had were respectful. They weren't any kind of we want

1105
01:00:06,440 --> 01:00:08,400
Speaker 2: to acquire you and all that kind of stuff. It's

1106
01:00:08,400 --> 01:00:10,880
Speaker 2: sent how I roll, who I am. It's not how

1107
01:00:10,920 --> 01:00:13,160
Speaker 2: we would do it. It was clearly not how anything

1108
01:00:13,200 --> 01:00:16,320
Speaker 2: good was going to happen anyway, So useful on forefronts

1109
01:00:17,840 --> 01:00:21,200
Speaker 2: in this case, by those conversations where Troy, you know,

1110
01:00:22,400 --> 01:00:24,720
Speaker 2: we're not going to be around forever. We all die,

1111
01:00:25,040 --> 01:00:28,600
Speaker 2: taxes and death right, and what do you want to

1112
01:00:28,640 --> 01:00:30,840
Speaker 2: have happened to that through this land, like we're just

1113
01:00:32,120 --> 01:00:35,760
Speaker 2: you know, you want to put in a foundation trust.

1114
01:00:35,800 --> 01:00:38,760
Speaker 2: I'm here to help you, right, And you got to

1115
01:00:38,800 --> 01:00:41,840
Speaker 2: keep in mind that my background and my upbringing now

1116
01:00:42,000 --> 01:00:44,760
Speaker 2: is playing a role. And I there was turns out

1117
01:00:44,760 --> 01:00:48,160
Speaker 2: there was an original essays in Danger Species ACTIUDY that

1118
01:00:48,240 --> 01:00:51,600
Speaker 2: indicated that there was a potential impact of soon to

1119
01:00:51,640 --> 01:00:55,880
Speaker 2: be listed frog and the habitat was a part of

1120
01:00:55,960 --> 01:00:58,720
Speaker 2: this land, and I'd say, well, we're going to design

1121
01:00:58,760 --> 01:01:00,880
Speaker 2: around it. My grandfather would reach out of the grave

1122
01:01:00,920 --> 01:01:03,720
Speaker 2: and strangle me like a horror movie if I did

1123
01:01:03,720 --> 01:01:08,400
Speaker 2: anything to impact any endangered species listed or not. And

1124
01:01:08,520 --> 01:01:11,840
Speaker 2: we did that, and that was the tone and nature

1125
01:01:11,840 --> 01:01:15,760
Speaker 2: of those conversations. And with Troy and him, you know,

1126
01:01:15,840 --> 01:01:18,520
Speaker 2: the answer question is, I don't know. I don't think so.

1127
01:01:18,840 --> 01:01:23,320
Speaker 2: If Troy kept his same demeanor, he's established a trust

1128
01:01:23,440 --> 01:01:27,280
Speaker 2: or something for that land to advance through. But I

1129
01:01:27,320 --> 01:01:29,520
Speaker 2: don't know. Actually, as to this day, I can tell

1130
01:01:29,520 --> 01:01:31,880
Speaker 2: you in twenty seventeen, the answer would have been, no,

1131
01:01:32,360 --> 01:01:36,280
Speaker 2: it's not at all inevitable based on what Troy's disposition was.

1132
01:01:36,280 --> 01:01:39,720
Speaker 1: Okay, so how does it end with you at Palisades? Oh?

1133
01:01:40,080 --> 01:01:43,160
Speaker 2: You know, I was in a point where I had

1134
01:01:43,240 --> 01:01:46,880
Speaker 2: played a role in helping build Altair Mountain company. We

1135
01:01:47,080 --> 01:01:49,320
Speaker 2: now know it was a passholders called the Icon. We

1136
01:01:49,400 --> 01:01:52,600
Speaker 2: didn't call Altera at that time. Interestingly enough, that whole

1137
01:01:52,680 --> 01:01:57,560
Speaker 2: transaction started with West Edens. And I was on the

1138
01:01:57,600 --> 01:02:00,960
Speaker 2: board of USKI team, as was Air Resnik, who was

1139
01:02:01,000 --> 01:02:03,160
Speaker 2: the president of KSL Capital Partners. And we were at

1140
01:02:03,160 --> 01:02:05,800
Speaker 2: the New York City gala, a huge fundraiser for the

1141
01:02:05,920 --> 01:02:10,480
Speaker 2: USK team. And who's also involved this sk USK team

1142
01:02:10,480 --> 01:02:13,360
Speaker 2: as Wes Edens on the board of trustees. And he

1143
01:02:13,480 --> 01:02:16,480
Speaker 2: walks up to Eric and me and I know him

1144
01:02:16,520 --> 01:02:18,360
Speaker 2: quite well and Eric does him pretty well, and he says,

1145
01:02:18,400 --> 01:02:20,720
Speaker 2: I'm getting long in the tooth on interest. I think

1146
01:02:20,720 --> 01:02:23,880
Speaker 2: it might actually be putting putting a book out on

1147
01:02:23,960 --> 01:02:26,960
Speaker 2: that and selling it. Are you guys interested in it?

1148
01:02:27,120 --> 01:02:29,240
Speaker 2: To say it cut off, cut off offt guard would

1149
01:02:29,240 --> 01:02:34,920
Speaker 2: be an understatement. Hit pause six months earlier Mammoth Barry Sternlock,

1150
01:02:34,960 --> 01:02:37,400
Speaker 2: the guy had forty two percent of Mammoth and their

1151
01:02:37,480 --> 01:02:39,960
Speaker 2: other holdings, had put a book out on a book

1152
01:02:40,080 --> 01:02:44,400
Speaker 2: meaning a confidential information memorandum or kind of book out

1153
01:02:44,440 --> 01:02:48,840
Speaker 2: on Mammoth, but had wanted a really high multiple, very

1154
01:02:48,920 --> 01:02:53,720
Speaker 2: high number for that asset. Great Mountain, incredible Mountain, incredible holdings.

1155
01:02:53,800 --> 01:02:56,520
Speaker 2: What they built was incredible there, but just not worth that.

1156
01:02:57,680 --> 01:03:03,560
Speaker 2: So we passed. And then when west Edents walked away,

1157
01:03:04,080 --> 01:03:07,840
Speaker 2: Eric and I spent the next two hours talking about, okay, well,

1158
01:03:07,880 --> 01:03:12,640
Speaker 2: hold on interest in this current form. Was it no

1159
01:03:12,800 --> 01:03:16,720
Speaker 2: longer had Whistler's part of the asset base, but had

1160
01:03:16,720 --> 01:03:19,200
Speaker 2: a lot of great skirias And quickly went into the

1161
01:03:19,280 --> 01:03:22,840
Speaker 2: easy side of this critical word easy part of this,

1162
01:03:23,680 --> 01:03:26,280
Speaker 2: and that is, if you take all these great ski

1163
01:03:26,280 --> 01:03:30,680
Speaker 2: areas including Steamboat winter Park and others with interest, and

1164
01:03:30,920 --> 01:03:33,520
Speaker 2: do you have Mammoth and these other resorts, and do

1165
01:03:33,520 --> 01:03:35,800
Speaker 2: you have squad Valley as this point, squad Valley Ski

1166
01:03:35,880 --> 01:03:40,600
Speaker 2: Holdings the parent of squad Valley out by Meadows. Maybe

1167
01:03:40,640 --> 01:03:45,160
Speaker 2: there's a different perspective and now there's potentially a critical mass.

1168
01:03:45,160 --> 01:03:47,920
Speaker 2: If you can make this all makes sense enough, critical

1169
01:03:48,000 --> 01:03:51,440
Speaker 2: mass to actually be competitive with Vail Resorts, a very

1170
01:03:51,480 --> 01:03:56,200
Speaker 2: successful company based out of Broomfield, Colorado. And so that's

1171
01:03:56,960 --> 01:03:59,800
Speaker 2: I ended up playing a role in the role up strategy,

1172
01:04:00,480 --> 01:04:03,480
Speaker 2: pulling that together, some of the negotiations, some of the

1173
01:04:03,560 --> 01:04:07,240
Speaker 2: trips to all the assets, the presentations, the warming presentations

1174
01:04:07,800 --> 01:04:11,000
Speaker 2: that take place in that classic situation, and yes, skiing

1175
01:04:11,080 --> 01:04:14,800
Speaker 2: these mountains, which I had a great day at skiing everywhere,

1176
01:04:14,920 --> 01:04:19,160
Speaker 2: these places, including my hometown resort, Steamboat right which, by

1177
01:04:19,200 --> 01:04:22,320
Speaker 2: the way, ironically I was in Steamboat in the same

1178
01:04:22,480 --> 01:04:25,400
Speaker 2: very room that we had given so many management presentations

1179
01:04:25,440 --> 01:04:29,560
Speaker 2: to prospective owners, but now it was being presented Steamboat

1180
01:04:29,640 --> 01:04:31,560
Speaker 2: and all the other assets were being presented to me.

1181
01:04:31,600 --> 01:04:34,520
Speaker 2: I thought that was ironic. Ended up playing role and

1182
01:04:34,520 --> 01:04:37,320
Speaker 2: putting that together. And at that stage, Bob, I just

1183
01:04:37,640 --> 01:04:39,320
Speaker 2: was at a point in my career. You know a

1184
01:04:39,360 --> 01:04:41,760
Speaker 2: lot of stuff had gone on in Squad Valley, Alpine Meadows.

1185
01:04:42,360 --> 01:04:44,880
Speaker 2: I you know, by now had a few years under

1186
01:04:44,920 --> 01:04:47,040
Speaker 2: my belt with the ARM and I just had a

1187
01:04:47,080 --> 01:04:52,960
Speaker 2: different perspective on life and hit hit the punch out button,

1188
01:04:53,440 --> 01:04:56,200
Speaker 2: flew to ever and told those guys, said, hey, we

1189
01:04:56,280 --> 01:04:59,240
Speaker 2: want you to come run this company. We're building. I said,

1190
01:04:59,600 --> 01:05:02,760
Speaker 2: you know, I love I love these guys at KSL Capital.

1191
01:05:02,880 --> 01:05:06,280
Speaker 2: They're so good, they're so solid. But I'm just not

1192
01:05:06,600 --> 01:05:08,439
Speaker 2: it's not in the cards. It's not in the cards

1193
01:05:08,480 --> 01:05:12,600
Speaker 2: for me. I Yeah, So I punched out. And I

1194
01:05:12,640 --> 01:05:16,000
Speaker 2: also had recently been married to a wonderful lady who

1195
01:05:16,240 --> 01:05:18,840
Speaker 2: runs a company down here in southern part of Orange County.

1196
01:05:20,200 --> 01:05:23,800
Speaker 2: And I just I just had kind of worked hard,

1197
01:05:24,400 --> 01:05:27,760
Speaker 2: really hard like many people, like most people do, and

1198
01:05:27,840 --> 01:05:30,680
Speaker 2: it was time to find a different path. And so

1199
01:05:30,880 --> 01:05:32,160
Speaker 2: I punched out at that time.

1200
01:05:33,320 --> 01:05:36,040
Speaker 1: And when you punched out, as you put it, did

1201
01:05:36,120 --> 01:05:38,040
Speaker 1: you have enough money to get you to the end

1202
01:05:38,160 --> 01:05:38,480
Speaker 1: or did you?

1203
01:05:39,520 --> 01:05:42,320
Speaker 2: I did, Bob, And you know, I mean it seriously.

1204
01:05:42,360 --> 01:05:46,560
Speaker 2: You don't mean it cliche. I know how to work hard,

1205
01:05:46,560 --> 01:05:48,040
Speaker 2: and I think I might have learned that fighting fire.

1206
01:05:48,120 --> 01:05:50,280
Speaker 2: But I'm barely the smartest guy in the room, if ever.

1207
01:05:51,280 --> 01:05:54,960
Speaker 2: And so good fortune and hard work kind of got

1208
01:05:55,040 --> 01:05:57,320
Speaker 2: me to a place where, Yeah, things worked out pretty well.

1209
01:05:57,440 --> 01:06:01,440
Speaker 2: The transaction associated with the evaluation of squad Elly Ski

1210
01:06:01,520 --> 01:06:05,200
Speaker 2: Holdings and had three tranchas of equity, and things worked

1211
01:06:05,240 --> 01:06:06,800
Speaker 2: out pretty really well for me financially.

1212
01:06:13,880 --> 01:06:16,920
Speaker 1: Okay, let's talk about the ski industry in general. So

1213
01:06:18,120 --> 01:06:23,320
Speaker 1: you know, skiing is a mature sport, and we've had consolidation,

1214
01:06:23,600 --> 01:06:25,880
Speaker 1: just like in the live music business and in the

1215
01:06:25,960 --> 01:06:30,600
Speaker 1: recorded music business. But in the sixties, that's when skiing

1216
01:06:30,680 --> 01:06:35,440
Speaker 1: originally blew up. Skiing was hip. Certainly wealthy people skied,

1217
01:06:35,840 --> 01:06:38,720
Speaker 1: but pretty much everybody skied. It was more of a

1218
01:06:38,800 --> 01:06:44,320
Speaker 1: blue collar thing. Ultimately, in the late eighties we had

1219
01:06:44,360 --> 01:06:50,040
Speaker 1: the transition to high speed lifts, which took really got

1220
01:06:50,160 --> 01:06:52,640
Speaker 1: traction in the nineties. Certainly by the twenty first century,

1221
01:06:52,720 --> 01:06:56,920
Speaker 1: those lists were so expensive that they raised tickets, and

1222
01:06:57,120 --> 01:07:00,720
Speaker 1: therefore conventional wisdom is that it out a lot of

1223
01:07:00,880 --> 01:07:04,240
Speaker 1: people who didn't want to spend that money. It was

1224
01:07:04,320 --> 01:07:09,040
Speaker 1: seen as more of the wealthy person's sport. Then, of course,

1225
01:07:09,200 --> 01:07:14,960
Speaker 1: Veil Associates is purchased by Apollo. Rob Katz comes in

1226
01:07:15,080 --> 01:07:17,360
Speaker 1: and runs it after he wants to leave New York

1227
01:07:17,400 --> 01:07:21,640
Speaker 1: City in two thousand and one and before the decade

1228
01:07:21,800 --> 01:07:24,720
Speaker 1: is out. He comes up with this concept of the

1229
01:07:24,800 --> 01:07:28,520
Speaker 1: epic pass. So instead of a season's pass at Veil

1230
01:07:28,760 --> 01:07:33,080
Speaker 1: Only or Veil and Beaver Creek costing between two and

1231
01:07:33,280 --> 01:07:38,680
Speaker 1: three thousand dollars for at the initial price in the

1232
01:07:38,960 --> 01:07:42,960
Speaker 1: two thousand and eight, it was far under one thousand dollars.

1233
01:07:43,640 --> 01:07:47,000
Speaker 1: So there are a lot of things going on. The

1234
01:07:47,280 --> 01:07:50,920
Speaker 1: plan with American Ski Company with less odd and the

1235
01:07:51,040 --> 01:07:55,640
Speaker 1: plan with Interest was a real estate play, whereas Veil

1236
01:07:55,760 --> 01:07:59,600
Speaker 1: flipped the script. They said, no, we're going to make

1237
01:07:59,640 --> 01:08:03,240
Speaker 1: the money on the lift tickets, the ancillary, the skiing.

1238
01:08:03,480 --> 01:08:05,720
Speaker 1: What's on the hill? Of course, most people don't know.

1239
01:08:06,320 --> 01:08:09,120
Speaker 1: In most of the town's where Vail is, they own

1240
01:08:09,240 --> 01:08:12,080
Speaker 1: a lot of the branded shops see the Patagonia shops,

1241
01:08:12,120 --> 01:08:15,880
Speaker 1: see Solomon and they are evolved, involved a little in

1242
01:08:16,000 --> 01:08:19,920
Speaker 1: real estate. It's inevitable, but that is not their main focus.

1243
01:08:20,479 --> 01:08:24,080
Speaker 1: Now Epic comes along, cleans up and without going through

1244
01:08:24,080 --> 01:08:27,519
Speaker 1: the transition going to the ultimate point you make, we

1245
01:08:27,800 --> 01:08:30,320
Speaker 1: end up getting the Icon Pass, such as we have

1246
01:08:30,479 --> 01:08:33,240
Speaker 1: two major players. Icon Pass is a little bit more

1247
01:08:33,320 --> 01:08:36,800
Speaker 1: expensive than the Epic Pass, but not dramatically a couple

1248
01:08:36,960 --> 01:08:39,559
Speaker 1: hundred dollars. It's irrelevant if those are the skiers you're

1249
01:08:39,600 --> 01:08:43,639
Speaker 1: going to go to what do we know skier days

1250
01:08:44,720 --> 01:08:47,679
Speaker 1: And for those who don't know, that's when one person

1251
01:08:47,840 --> 01:08:50,360
Speaker 1: goes to a hill one day, that's a skier day.

1252
01:08:50,720 --> 01:08:53,280
Speaker 1: So if a person skis sixty days a year. It's

1253
01:08:53,360 --> 01:08:56,719
Speaker 1: sixty days. So we're not talking about the quantity of skiers,

1254
01:08:56,760 --> 01:08:58,479
Speaker 1: but the number of times people go on the hill.

1255
01:08:59,360 --> 01:09:03,000
Speaker 1: It's stable and went up, whereas before it had been

1256
01:09:03,680 --> 01:09:07,040
Speaker 1: you know, it had gone down, it matured, et cetera. However,

1257
01:09:08,080 --> 01:09:11,800
Speaker 1: there it's an interesting thing because there's backlash. You and

1258
01:09:11,920 --> 01:09:15,439
Speaker 1: me both know there's always backlash with any change. If

1259
01:09:15,479 --> 01:09:18,920
Speaker 1: you want to change we slow lift, fixed grip lift

1260
01:09:19,000 --> 01:09:21,080
Speaker 1: to a high speed lift in a bowl area, you

1261
01:09:21,280 --> 01:09:24,240
Speaker 1: always have the traditionally saying don't do that. They want

1262
01:09:24,280 --> 01:09:27,080
Speaker 1: to add a new lift in Jackson right now, same

1263
01:09:27,200 --> 01:09:31,560
Speaker 1: thing is happening. But the reason I mention all this

1264
01:09:31,880 --> 01:09:35,320
Speaker 1: to give a little bit of history. Take a snapshot

1265
01:09:35,400 --> 01:09:40,479
Speaker 1: of the industry. Now, okay, what is it mature? Can

1266
01:09:40,560 --> 01:09:43,160
Speaker 1: we have more excuse? I also wanted to talk one

1267
01:09:43,240 --> 01:09:47,719
Speaker 1: step further about the experience. Certainly on the Epic Pass,

1268
01:09:47,760 --> 01:09:50,920
Speaker 1: there are very few restrictions. There are a few more

1269
01:09:51,120 --> 01:09:54,559
Speaker 1: on the Icon Pass. This has resulted in a lot

1270
01:09:54,640 --> 01:09:58,840
Speaker 1: of publicity about crowding. A lot of it is not true.

1271
01:09:58,960 --> 01:10:01,680
Speaker 1: They'll show a picture a powdered day, people lining up

1272
01:10:01,760 --> 01:10:04,920
Speaker 1: where the lift opens. They'll show people when not that

1273
01:10:05,160 --> 01:10:08,120
Speaker 1: much of the ski area is open. It is nowhere

1274
01:10:08,160 --> 01:10:11,160
Speaker 1: near as crowded as the publicity, but this is seen

1275
01:10:11,280 --> 01:10:14,439
Speaker 1: as a factor. In addition, because of the law on

1276
01:10:14,520 --> 01:10:18,320
Speaker 1: the economics, you essentially can't build a new ski area.

1277
01:10:19,080 --> 01:10:22,240
Speaker 1: So what's gonna happen? Where are we and where we going?

1278
01:10:24,160 --> 01:10:26,639
Speaker 2: So you know, as an attorney, you just asked about

1279
01:10:26,680 --> 01:10:30,519
Speaker 2: a sixteenfold question, right, the sixteen elements here question me.

1280
01:10:31,640 --> 01:10:35,280
Speaker 2: I appreciate everything you just said. I'm serious, by the way,

1281
01:10:35,479 --> 01:10:38,040
Speaker 2: and I'll address every point that I possibly can. There's

1282
01:10:38,120 --> 01:10:40,720
Speaker 2: one key element you missed on the roll up on that,

1283
01:10:41,520 --> 01:10:44,920
Speaker 2: and that is the cheap pass. The buddy pass thing

1284
01:10:45,040 --> 01:10:47,479
Speaker 2: came about. I know for a fact because I was.

1285
01:10:47,479 --> 01:10:49,599
Speaker 1: There right in the front range of Colorado.

1286
01:10:50,160 --> 01:10:52,839
Speaker 2: It was Gary Defranz running when a park. He couldn't

1287
01:10:52,920 --> 01:10:56,479
Speaker 2: make payroll, and he came up with this idea to

1288
01:10:56,560 --> 01:10:59,680
Speaker 2: try and get cash in the door quick. And that

1289
01:10:59,920 --> 01:11:01,920
Speaker 2: was for every four people that I had passed, you

1290
01:11:02,040 --> 01:11:03,920
Speaker 2: get it for super cheap. And at that time it

1291
01:11:04,000 --> 01:11:07,040
Speaker 2: was Adam Aaron who came in from United Airlines, and

1292
01:11:07,280 --> 01:11:11,320
Speaker 2: Adam was running bail. Adam and I would contend, I

1293
01:11:11,439 --> 01:11:15,120
Speaker 2: know this to be true, would contend I would contend

1294
01:11:15,200 --> 01:11:17,759
Speaker 2: that his background of the United and the airline business

1295
01:11:17,920 --> 01:11:20,600
Speaker 2: was a little bit more commodity based pricing, where you

1296
01:11:20,680 --> 01:11:22,560
Speaker 2: lose share if you don't match on price. It is

1297
01:11:22,600 --> 01:11:25,439
Speaker 2: a simplistic way to put it, commodity being something that's

1298
01:11:25,479 --> 01:11:30,240
Speaker 2: only different siated by price. He ends up on Friday

1299
01:11:30,240 --> 01:11:33,639
Speaker 2: afternoon of Gary Defranz announcing this by Saturday afternoon during

1300
01:11:33,640 --> 01:11:37,360
Speaker 2: the Sneograb sale, which is a labor day sale in Denver, matching,

1301
01:11:37,760 --> 01:11:41,280
Speaker 2: and next thing, you know, the cheap passes born. I

1302
01:11:41,360 --> 01:11:44,840
Speaker 2: can't remember how many years later, maybe five, five, six,

1303
01:11:45,000 --> 01:11:51,280
Speaker 2: seven years later, after Adam Aaron leaves and shortly thereafter

1304
01:11:51,840 --> 01:11:55,679
Speaker 2: robcast leaves the board as a representative of the group

1305
01:11:55,760 --> 01:11:58,920
Speaker 2: you mentioned. I think they had large component of bail

1306
01:11:58,920 --> 01:12:02,439
Speaker 2: associations at that time. This is post bankruptcy Right Veils

1307
01:12:02,479 --> 01:12:06,680
Speaker 2: bankrupt in ninety two ninety three under Jillette because cross collateralization,

1308
01:12:06,800 --> 01:12:11,400
Speaker 2: all that jazz. But interestingly enough, the KSL guys picked

1309
01:12:11,400 --> 01:12:13,760
Speaker 2: it up, fixed it up, and took it public. But

1310
01:12:14,000 --> 01:12:17,479
Speaker 2: now it's Rob Cats coming in and he takes something

1311
01:12:17,520 --> 01:12:21,160
Speaker 2: that was the cheap pass. Thing happened completely by accident.

1312
01:12:21,840 --> 01:12:25,320
Speaker 2: It was a knee jerk like you read about. I'm

1313
01:12:25,400 --> 01:12:27,720
Speaker 2: not kidding you. It's kind of the I know this

1314
01:12:27,800 --> 01:12:30,840
Speaker 2: to be true because I was there so expand upon

1315
01:12:30,920 --> 01:12:34,080
Speaker 2: that time happens. Well, it was Garied French needed to

1316
01:12:34,120 --> 01:12:36,639
Speaker 2: make payroll for winter Park running. Oh you mean the original, Yeah,

1317
01:12:36,640 --> 01:12:36,960
Speaker 2: the original.

1318
01:12:37,080 --> 01:12:37,280
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1319
01:12:37,320 --> 01:12:41,000
Speaker 2: But then Rob Cats came along said there's something more here,

1320
01:12:41,439 --> 01:12:44,120
Speaker 2: and he took what was a complete aircraft carrier landing

1321
01:12:44,520 --> 01:12:48,080
Speaker 2: type knee jerk and made it into something a great

1322
01:12:48,080 --> 01:12:50,680
Speaker 2: deal more sophisticated, branded it called the Epic Pass, and

1323
01:12:51,080 --> 01:12:58,040
Speaker 2: here we are. Your point about business models is particularly relevant.

1324
01:12:59,800 --> 01:13:04,480
Speaker 2: I had my career responsibility for real estate, real estate development, brokerages,

1325
01:13:04,760 --> 01:13:09,800
Speaker 2: scary operations, you know, you name it. Pretty pretty understanding

1326
01:13:10,040 --> 01:13:11,880
Speaker 2: of that space. By the way, there's a pretty good

1327
01:13:11,920 --> 01:13:16,120
Speaker 2: analog with the music industry. In addition to these things

1328
01:13:16,160 --> 01:13:21,240
Speaker 2: that happened, there's also the maturation exactly just like in

1329
01:13:21,320 --> 01:13:25,160
Speaker 2: the music business, right when BGP gets acquired by I

1330
01:13:25,240 --> 01:13:26,360
Speaker 2: can't remember what group.

1331
01:13:26,200 --> 01:13:31,560
Speaker 1: And THENXX turns into absolutely and so there was that.

1332
01:13:31,760 --> 01:13:34,559
Speaker 2: There was also the maturation and the people running the businesses.

1333
01:13:34,600 --> 01:13:36,479
Speaker 2: I'm not saying for better or worse, it was just

1334
01:13:36,840 --> 01:13:40,200
Speaker 2: more mature, more people. You know, like mentioned in that email,

1335
01:13:40,479 --> 01:13:43,439
Speaker 2: Bill and Peter Barsodi, I learned from them from BGP.

1336
01:13:43,640 --> 01:13:46,479
Speaker 2: This is after Bill died concert with them, and I

1337
01:13:46,600 --> 01:13:49,120
Speaker 2: know the business a little bit. And you know, those

1338
01:13:49,160 --> 01:13:52,840
Speaker 2: guys were Gen one at BGP and the Gen two,

1339
01:13:52,960 --> 01:13:55,120
Speaker 2: three four, And I don't know the companies like you do.

1340
01:13:55,200 --> 01:13:57,800
Speaker 2: You worked for them, with them and helped lead them

1341
01:13:58,240 --> 01:14:00,160
Speaker 2: in this case, but you saw that first and in

1342
01:14:00,200 --> 01:14:02,719
Speaker 2: this case I saw firsthand the maturation of those working

1343
01:14:02,760 --> 01:14:05,040
Speaker 2: inside the key business. So it was a little bit

1344
01:14:05,040 --> 01:14:07,559
Speaker 2: more than you mentioned. But the point being is relative

1345
01:14:07,640 --> 01:14:12,400
Speaker 2: to real estate and what drives businesses, it's the going

1346
01:14:12,439 --> 01:14:15,800
Speaker 2: concerned principle they teach you in first year business school.

1347
01:14:16,000 --> 01:14:19,640
Speaker 2: Is really simple. You can't build the business on a

1348
01:14:19,720 --> 01:14:23,719
Speaker 2: long term basis just on real estate. It will fail

1349
01:14:23,760 --> 01:14:25,960
Speaker 2: because you're number one, run out of real estate. Number two.

1350
01:14:26,479 --> 01:14:29,519
Speaker 2: The evolution or the undulations associated with that. And there

1351
01:14:29,560 --> 01:14:31,840
Speaker 2: were those of us who is an old friend of mine,

1352
01:14:31,960 --> 01:14:35,240
Speaker 2: a boss of mine who went to Middlebury's also Christyman,

1353
01:14:35,280 --> 01:14:37,519
Speaker 2: said stick to our knitting. We're going to do this.

1354
01:14:37,680 --> 01:14:39,800
Speaker 2: We can do this other real estate element. But the

1355
01:14:39,920 --> 01:14:42,640
Speaker 2: real estate, for instance in Steamboat was meant to be

1356
01:14:43,000 --> 01:14:44,840
Speaker 2: was a means to an end and see what we

1357
01:14:44,920 --> 01:14:48,800
Speaker 2: had done tons of studies and research understand that we

1358
01:14:49,000 --> 01:14:52,920
Speaker 2: knew there's two three key factors to our success. Number

1359
01:14:52,960 --> 01:14:57,000
Speaker 2: one airline seats got to have these NonStop heats and

1360
01:14:57,040 --> 01:15:00,479
Speaker 2: from lax Smo, Dallas, Fort Worth all accounts of the

1361
01:15:00,560 --> 01:15:02,840
Speaker 2: other one is the proper running of the ski area,

1362
01:15:02,920 --> 01:15:05,000
Speaker 2: pricing the name. But the third one is available nightly

1363
01:15:05,080 --> 01:15:07,760
Speaker 2: rental pillows and we had a dearth of those. So

1364
01:15:07,880 --> 01:15:10,559
Speaker 2: we ended up getting into call it real estate only

1365
01:15:10,680 --> 01:15:12,719
Speaker 2: because it was a means to an end, not because

1366
01:15:13,160 --> 01:15:16,160
Speaker 2: it was a long term effort. There there were companies

1367
01:15:16,439 --> 01:15:20,479
Speaker 2: like Interest who were built largely upon that and they

1368
01:15:21,479 --> 01:15:26,120
Speaker 2: weren't successful in the long run. You mentioned another one

1369
01:15:26,400 --> 01:15:31,160
Speaker 2: American Skiing, a skiing company, they had their grand summit size.

1370
01:15:31,479 --> 01:15:33,240
Speaker 2: We ended up doing the steamboat. Grand was over hotel

1371
01:15:33,280 --> 01:15:37,120
Speaker 2: and conference center. Who doggie, you're stumbling back into some

1372
01:15:37,240 --> 01:15:40,520
Speaker 2: memories here, man, and you know your stuff. Not surprisingly,

1373
01:15:40,640 --> 01:15:44,080
Speaker 2: but there was a darkness and steamboat when less was there.

1374
01:15:44,280 --> 01:15:45,760
Speaker 2: There's bumper stickers and you name it.

1375
01:15:46,120 --> 01:15:48,920
Speaker 1: Just stop for one second. Yeah, how long are those

1376
01:15:49,000 --> 01:15:52,400
Speaker 1: grand some of hotels going to last? Depends on which

1377
01:15:52,479 --> 01:15:55,360
Speaker 1: one I've heard some of them are quite flimsy.

1378
01:15:56,360 --> 01:15:58,840
Speaker 2: It'd be fair to say that the ones and I

1379
01:15:58,920 --> 01:16:01,240
Speaker 2: get friends still running these resorts are going to fly

1380
01:16:01,360 --> 01:16:04,680
Speaker 2: out to Montana and beat me up or something that

1381
01:16:04,720 --> 01:16:08,240
Speaker 2: I don't know. The ones back east are pretty well veed,

1382
01:16:08,560 --> 01:16:12,439
Speaker 2: value engineered steamboat grant. We spent a lot of effort

1383
01:16:12,800 --> 01:16:18,400
Speaker 2: in securing viable, solid set up. Now, the design, physical

1384
01:16:18,439 --> 01:16:20,639
Speaker 2: plant design could have been better, but that one's solid.

1385
01:16:21,400 --> 01:16:25,479
Speaker 2: The canyons grand pretty darn good. So it depends on

1386
01:16:25,560 --> 01:16:28,200
Speaker 2: which one. It sounds to me like you've stayed in

1387
01:16:28,280 --> 01:16:28,879
Speaker 2: some of the ways.

1388
01:16:29,400 --> 01:16:31,559
Speaker 1: All I've read. I have some people that have ownership interests.

1389
01:16:31,560 --> 01:16:34,719
Speaker 1: It's a fascinating thing. Just to stop an American skiing

1390
01:16:34,800 --> 01:16:37,080
Speaker 1: company less Odd has been trying to get back into

1391
01:16:37,120 --> 01:16:41,960
Speaker 1: the balsips for years now. Did it fail because of

1392
01:16:42,080 --> 01:16:48,519
Speaker 1: the macroeconomic situation in America or was it inherently flawed plan?

1393
01:16:48,880 --> 01:16:51,360
Speaker 1: Was it too much spending too soon? Was it to

1394
01:16:51,439 --> 01:16:53,160
Speaker 1: focus on real estate or all of that.

1395
01:16:53,600 --> 01:16:55,880
Speaker 2: It was even more simple than that, Bob. I can

1396
01:16:55,960 --> 01:16:59,719
Speaker 2: tell you from the inside out, straight up, straightforward. There's

1397
01:16:59,720 --> 01:17:06,280
Speaker 2: an experienced CFO who ended up cross collateralizing assets and

1398
01:17:06,840 --> 01:17:09,719
Speaker 2: put the company in a very very very difficult position

1399
01:17:10,040 --> 01:17:15,160
Speaker 2: when it came to structuring acquisition or securing companies ski

1400
01:17:15,200 --> 01:17:19,200
Speaker 2: areas and land with capital that was secured through cross

1401
01:17:19,640 --> 01:17:23,040
Speaker 2: collateralized loans, which can feel good for a couple three days,

1402
01:17:24,120 --> 01:17:26,400
Speaker 2: but as you know from your business experience, we'll catch

1403
01:17:26,479 --> 01:17:30,000
Speaker 2: up to your ass and those Our ass was caught

1404
01:17:30,080 --> 01:17:33,240
Speaker 2: up and it was covenants blown through and it was bad.

1405
01:17:33,720 --> 01:17:37,240
Speaker 2: It was really bad. So it was actually a number

1406
01:17:37,320 --> 01:17:39,800
Speaker 2: of factors. But I would I could make a very

1407
01:17:40,120 --> 01:17:45,360
Speaker 2: very strong salient. I sometimes I'm asked to speak, can

1408
01:17:45,439 --> 01:17:47,840
Speaker 2: do guest lecturing at business schools. It's really fun. I

1409
01:17:48,000 --> 01:17:50,080
Speaker 2: enjoy the heck out of that. But in this case,

1410
01:17:50,479 --> 01:17:52,400
Speaker 2: you can look at these three, four or five layers

1411
01:17:52,400 --> 01:17:55,760
Speaker 2: a little bit like my skyde accidents. Usually there's this

1412
01:17:56,080 --> 01:17:59,840
Speaker 2: one prevailing thing. In this case, one prevailing thing is

1413
01:18:00,000 --> 01:18:03,439
Speaker 2: I had an inexperienced CFO who and uh willingly or

1414
01:18:03,600 --> 01:18:07,000
Speaker 2: knowingly or unknowingly and unwillingly uh less signed off on this.

1415
01:18:07,120 --> 01:18:11,200
Speaker 2: But it was cross colateralized loans debt that brought that

1416
01:18:11,320 --> 01:18:14,520
Speaker 2: company to its heels, to its excuse me, Okay.

1417
01:18:14,720 --> 01:18:19,599
Speaker 1: So today, where is the industry that is their growth?

1418
01:18:20,320 --> 01:18:23,880
Speaker 1: Is there any consolidation I mean, yeah, give me your take.

1419
01:18:24,000 --> 01:18:28,639
Speaker 2: Sure. So inside looking out, I hear the phrase. I've

1420
01:18:28,640 --> 01:18:30,680
Speaker 2: heard the phrase during and after my career and the

1421
01:18:30,840 --> 01:18:33,720
Speaker 2: running ski resorts of consolidation, and honestly, it was there

1422
01:18:33,800 --> 01:18:38,880
Speaker 2: since eighty six and it's ebbed and flowed, and the

1423
01:18:39,000 --> 01:18:41,479
Speaker 2: trend towards consolidation. I'm like, well, which you know, this

1424
01:18:41,640 --> 01:18:43,920
Speaker 2: is about the sixth one I've seen. You can call

1425
01:18:43,960 --> 01:18:48,120
Speaker 2: it a trend. And truthfully, it's just like the music industry,

1426
01:18:48,360 --> 01:18:50,640
Speaker 2: right kind of. You can say the music industry just

1427
01:18:50,720 --> 01:18:54,040
Speaker 2: like you say the ski industry. But inside there, your

1428
01:18:54,240 --> 01:18:57,479
Speaker 2: view of this is very unique and informed. There's pockets

1429
01:18:57,520 --> 01:19:00,360
Speaker 2: of those who succeed and pockets of those who do

1430
01:19:00,520 --> 01:19:03,240
Speaker 2: okay and those who don't. And it has to do

1431
01:19:03,400 --> 01:19:07,040
Speaker 2: with their business acumen, their business model. They're thinking, you know,

1432
01:19:07,120 --> 01:19:09,080
Speaker 2: there's so many things to it. Ski industry is the

1433
01:19:09,120 --> 01:19:12,880
Speaker 2: same way highlight that they're those who have the shit

1434
01:19:12,920 --> 01:19:17,280
Speaker 2: together and those who don't, and those who rely on

1435
01:19:17,920 --> 01:19:21,280
Speaker 2: phrases like if you have snow it, you do well,

1436
01:19:21,320 --> 01:19:24,799
Speaker 2: if you don't, you don't. That's that's a false premise,

1437
01:19:25,000 --> 01:19:28,200
Speaker 2: entirely false premise. Or if we spend a whole bunch

1438
01:19:28,200 --> 01:19:30,200
Speaker 2: of money on share lips big metals. Spending money on

1439
01:19:30,280 --> 01:19:32,880
Speaker 2: big metals easy. The hard part is having it makes

1440
01:19:32,960 --> 01:19:36,560
Speaker 2: sense from a finite capital outlay perspective. My answer to

1441
01:19:36,560 --> 01:19:41,320
Speaker 2: your question is the industry has shed the intensity of

1442
01:19:41,439 --> 01:19:45,439
Speaker 2: focus on real estate being such a key part of

1443
01:19:46,000 --> 01:19:49,680
Speaker 2: seeing to the p and l their profitability. Thankfully, those

1444
01:19:49,720 --> 01:19:53,040
Speaker 2: who figured that out didn't take long. There's a lot

1445
01:19:53,080 --> 01:19:56,800
Speaker 2: of roadkill on that one in the past twenty years.

1446
01:19:57,880 --> 01:20:00,479
Speaker 2: And those who stuck to the netting, they are doing things,

1447
01:20:00,520 --> 01:20:05,160
Speaker 2: good things, whether they be Wachusetts Mountain, I think in Massachusetts, right, yeah,

1448
01:20:05,720 --> 01:20:07,240
Speaker 2: all the way up to the big guys. There's some

1449
01:20:07,479 --> 01:20:10,360
Speaker 2: smart people that still have passion for the sport that

1450
01:20:10,439 --> 01:20:12,200
Speaker 2: are good business people running these mountains.

1451
01:20:12,280 --> 01:20:15,639
Speaker 1: So well, let's just look at the two major players.

1452
01:20:15,760 --> 01:20:19,400
Speaker 1: There are some even Snowbrains. Today is listing the largest

1453
01:20:19,400 --> 01:20:22,200
Speaker 1: ski areas that are not aligned. You have White Water,

1454
01:20:22,400 --> 01:20:24,320
Speaker 1: you have a few in Canada, but most of these

1455
01:20:24,360 --> 01:20:28,080
Speaker 1: companies are aligned with one of the two major operations.

1456
01:20:28,560 --> 01:20:32,200
Speaker 1: So every year, at this time of year, Veil announces

1457
01:20:32,280 --> 01:20:36,439
Speaker 1: its capital projects. So at Veil Mountain, literally every lift

1458
01:20:36,560 --> 01:20:39,280
Speaker 1: is a high speed lift other than a couple of

1459
01:20:39,360 --> 01:20:43,640
Speaker 1: beginner lifts. Really the infrastructures improved this year at Steamboat

1460
01:20:44,080 --> 01:20:49,840
Speaker 1: mazing upgrades in infrastructure. So what we know is the

1461
01:20:50,000 --> 01:20:52,639
Speaker 1: business model is to get the capital in the spring,

1462
01:20:52,800 --> 01:20:56,479
Speaker 1: so you're not weather reliant. Okay. People want people to

1463
01:20:56,560 --> 01:20:59,680
Speaker 1: buy the pass, which breaks even usually between five and

1464
01:20:59,720 --> 01:21:02,840
Speaker 1: six visits. You have that money. Whether they go or not,

1465
01:21:03,600 --> 01:21:08,639
Speaker 1: you're at least set. So is that base of pass

1466
01:21:08,760 --> 01:21:13,080
Speaker 1: buyers And of course Epic two years ago actually lower

1467
01:21:13,280 --> 01:21:14,719
Speaker 1: the price, right, Okay?

1468
01:21:15,600 --> 01:21:17,240
Speaker 2: Is there a ceiling on that?

1469
01:21:17,880 --> 01:21:20,040
Speaker 1: You know, if you want to talk surfing, you got

1470
01:21:20,160 --> 01:21:24,719
Speaker 1: to be near waves, right, Okay, there's an inherently limited market.

1471
01:21:25,520 --> 01:21:28,880
Speaker 1: And in addition with surfing, there's in the water on

1472
01:21:29,160 --> 01:21:31,680
Speaker 1: the beach where's a lot of these skiaras you can

1473
01:21:31,800 --> 01:21:34,880
Speaker 1: actually entertain yourself if you never even go on the hill.

1474
01:21:35,360 --> 01:21:38,000
Speaker 1: And as a result of the high speed lifts, almost

1475
01:21:38,120 --> 01:21:42,479
Speaker 1: nobody skis from bell to bell every day few so

1476
01:21:43,560 --> 01:21:47,559
Speaker 1: you have these resort areas. What is the ceiling? Knowing

1477
01:21:47,640 --> 01:21:50,200
Speaker 1: that we I mean, it appears we can't build any

1478
01:21:50,240 --> 01:21:53,240
Speaker 1: more infrastructure in terms of new mountains, what's going to

1479
01:21:53,320 --> 01:21:53,720
Speaker 1: happen here?

1480
01:21:53,760 --> 01:21:57,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, Bob, I'm not trying to pivot or do the

1481
01:21:57,400 --> 01:22:03,479
Speaker 2: Sunday Morning, Meet the Press, politician pivot. I'm not I

1482
01:22:03,560 --> 01:22:07,840
Speaker 2: stepped off that business world, that world about five years ago.

1483
01:22:09,200 --> 01:22:11,560
Speaker 2: I don't have a good contemporary answer for you. But

1484
01:22:12,040 --> 01:22:15,440
Speaker 2: let me, just as President Obama said, I loved his interstitials,

1485
01:22:15,760 --> 01:22:18,600
Speaker 2: let me say this about that. In this case, I

1486
01:22:18,600 --> 01:22:23,960
Speaker 2: would say, I completely understand the center point of your

1487
01:22:24,040 --> 01:22:28,519
Speaker 2: question and all of the iterations. I get it. That

1488
01:22:28,840 --> 01:22:30,519
Speaker 2: could be said that that's one of the reasons I

1489
01:22:30,640 --> 01:22:34,200
Speaker 2: wanted to step off, and I'd be a hypocrite to

1490
01:22:34,280 --> 01:22:39,479
Speaker 2: not point out my contradiction there. The contradiction self evident.

1491
01:22:39,720 --> 01:22:41,400
Speaker 2: The very thing that I helped build is a very

1492
01:22:41,439 --> 01:22:44,920
Speaker 2: thing you're talking about, right, But at the same time

1493
01:22:45,400 --> 01:22:48,120
Speaker 2: I realized it wasn't. I had built a good career,

1494
01:22:48,400 --> 01:22:51,640
Speaker 2: I had done well. I was pleased and proud of

1495
01:22:51,720 --> 01:22:53,639
Speaker 2: some of the things I'd done look back and wish

1496
01:22:53,800 --> 01:22:57,200
Speaker 2: but this case, I was like, Okay, I'm not too

1497
01:22:57,240 --> 01:22:59,680
Speaker 2: sure I want to be a part of this particular

1498
01:23:00,000 --> 01:23:02,680
Speaker 2: circumstances going forward. And that was great. That was a

1499
01:23:02,720 --> 01:23:06,479
Speaker 2: personal But the answer question from a strategicy perspective, is

1500
01:23:06,560 --> 01:23:10,040
Speaker 2: the last time I use that reference. Is it the

1501
01:23:11,360 --> 01:23:14,479
Speaker 2: goal to set up a competitor for Vail we felt

1502
01:23:14,640 --> 01:23:17,840
Speaker 2: was a good one, and the onw O Resorts by

1503
01:23:18,120 --> 01:23:20,960
Speaker 2: Altara Mountain Company, and then there's the on O Resorts,

1504
01:23:21,160 --> 01:23:23,439
Speaker 2: and then there's affiliates, right, which are part of it.

1505
01:23:23,520 --> 01:23:26,080
Speaker 2: I think it's like forty eight or something now something

1506
01:23:26,120 --> 01:23:28,519
Speaker 2: like that. We built those with Mountain Collective Partners and more.

1507
01:23:29,760 --> 01:23:32,160
Speaker 2: Is extremely competitive and it's a competitive environment. And by

1508
01:23:32,200 --> 01:23:34,200
Speaker 2: the way, the research we did with McKenzie and others,

1509
01:23:34,479 --> 01:23:36,439
Speaker 2: we came out of the gates price higher than the

1510
01:23:36,479 --> 01:23:39,840
Speaker 2: Epic Pass very much on purpose, very much on purpose.

1511
01:23:40,840 --> 01:23:44,280
Speaker 2: And I'm thrilled to see the Foliot on purpose based

1512
01:23:44,320 --> 01:23:47,120
Speaker 2: on the numbers, based on the numbers, based on the views,

1513
01:23:47,760 --> 01:23:51,519
Speaker 2: and you know, the fundamental premises with Alterra and the

1514
01:23:51,800 --> 01:23:55,040
Speaker 2: icon it was, I would think it remains this is

1515
01:23:55,120 --> 01:23:57,960
Speaker 2: not a commodity product. We don't compete based on price.

1516
01:23:58,040 --> 01:24:01,720
Speaker 2: We compete based on price and many other things in

1517
01:24:01,840 --> 01:24:05,519
Speaker 2: some cases are precursors and other cases or epilogues to

1518
01:24:05,600 --> 01:24:10,200
Speaker 2: that whole discussion and the consumer's mind. And it's not complex,

1519
01:24:10,280 --> 01:24:13,360
Speaker 2: but it's nuanced. I could tell you this caliber since

1520
01:24:13,400 --> 01:24:17,439
Speaker 2: we're here in California. California is the battleground because you

1521
01:24:17,520 --> 01:24:20,080
Speaker 2: have in the market for the market high volume high

1522
01:24:20,200 --> 01:24:24,600
Speaker 2: visitation with Squad Valley, Alpine Meadows and Mammoth in the

1523
01:24:25,160 --> 01:24:27,800
Speaker 2: al Terra resorts. They also have vail resorts with north Star,

1524
01:24:27,960 --> 01:24:32,120
Speaker 2: Heavenly and the like. But California was it, and it's

1525
01:24:32,120 --> 01:24:35,160
Speaker 2: also a market that travels to Ski, to Utah, to Wyoming,

1526
01:24:35,240 --> 01:24:37,880
Speaker 2: to Montana, Colorado of course, so it is a big

1527
01:24:38,000 --> 01:24:41,600
Speaker 2: deal and it was the battleground as part of the

1528
01:24:41,720 --> 01:24:44,439
Speaker 2: roll ups. The initial quantitative analytics we did on this

1529
01:24:45,479 --> 01:24:48,120
Speaker 2: stand ups pointing is I don't know exactly where it goes.

1530
01:24:48,200 --> 01:24:51,120
Speaker 2: I do know this that scheme has become a little

1531
01:24:51,120 --> 01:24:53,880
Speaker 2: bit more affordable, and that's the good news. The other

1532
01:24:53,960 --> 01:24:56,800
Speaker 2: news is it's become more affordable and that's brought a

1533
01:24:56,880 --> 01:25:00,400
Speaker 2: lot more people to the sport and trying to find

1534
01:25:00,439 --> 01:25:04,320
Speaker 2: that equilibrium, that balance, I mean, it's it's with a

1535
01:25:04,479 --> 01:25:07,240
Speaker 2: great deal of pain and oh type kind of like

1536
01:25:07,400 --> 01:25:10,439
Speaker 2: geez seeing the lines on those high demand days. The

1537
01:25:10,520 --> 01:25:12,760
Speaker 2: compaction that we talk about, you know, to our lines

1538
01:25:12,800 --> 01:25:15,680
Speaker 2: at this resort and this resort, everybody gets them. And

1539
01:25:15,800 --> 01:25:18,840
Speaker 2: it doesn't matter how many gondolas high speed h you

1540
01:25:18,920 --> 01:25:21,360
Speaker 2: put out of a base. When you have twelve thousand

1541
01:25:21,360 --> 01:25:24,120
Speaker 2: people that want to go skiing in between nine am

1542
01:25:24,160 --> 01:25:26,320
Speaker 2: and nine thirty am. There's not a lift system on

1543
01:25:26,400 --> 01:25:29,680
Speaker 2: the planet that can move them out because squad we had,

1544
01:25:30,439 --> 01:25:33,000
Speaker 2: even with the base base which is at fourteen hundred hours,

1545
01:25:33,120 --> 01:25:36,080
Speaker 2: so twenty fourth there's I think out of base lift

1546
01:25:36,160 --> 01:25:40,559
Speaker 2: capacity might be six thousand something like that skiers per hour,

1547
01:25:41,080 --> 01:25:42,840
Speaker 2: and then you put nine thousand people that want to

1548
01:25:42,880 --> 01:25:47,160
Speaker 2: get up, mostly on KT understandably because fricking soul center

1549
01:25:47,200 --> 01:25:51,680
Speaker 2: of skiing universe right there, the incredible hill can't be done,

1550
01:25:51,800 --> 01:25:57,640
Speaker 2: so that compaction issue has been augmented by passes. I

1551
01:25:57,720 --> 01:25:59,560
Speaker 2: don't know where it goes from here. I don't have

1552
01:25:59,720 --> 01:26:02,600
Speaker 2: a crystal ball on that, but I do understand that

1553
01:26:03,800 --> 01:26:07,040
Speaker 2: I can say the obvious restate blinding clash the obvious

1554
01:26:07,080 --> 01:26:09,679
Speaker 2: it has become more affordable good news. The other news

1555
01:26:10,040 --> 01:26:12,519
Speaker 2: is it's become more affordable and it's invited more people

1556
01:26:12,560 --> 01:26:15,280
Speaker 2: to the sport. I'm not trying to avoid your question.

1557
01:26:15,439 --> 01:26:16,880
Speaker 1: No, no, I think you got it. But the reason

1558
01:26:16,920 --> 01:26:19,280
Speaker 1: we have to lay that groundwork is you are on

1559
01:26:19,439 --> 01:26:23,479
Speaker 1: the hard goods side of the equation now with peak skis,

1560
01:26:23,920 --> 01:26:26,040
Speaker 1: So what do we know about the hard goods. And

1561
01:26:26,280 --> 01:26:31,519
Speaker 1: according to your documentation, there's nine hundred thousand pairs of

1562
01:26:31,600 --> 01:26:35,560
Speaker 1: skis sold in a year worldwide. What do we know?

1563
01:26:35,840 --> 01:26:40,200
Speaker 1: The number has come down. So if we look historically,

1564
01:26:40,840 --> 01:26:44,320
Speaker 1: skis were not that well built. Skis are much better

1565
01:26:44,439 --> 01:26:46,759
Speaker 1: built than they used to. If you were a regular skier,

1566
01:26:47,720 --> 01:26:50,280
Speaker 1: you know you would be. We're best friends with the

1567
01:26:50,320 --> 01:26:54,400
Speaker 1: warranty department and I can talk from experience. Whereas the skis,

1568
01:26:54,439 --> 01:26:57,839
Speaker 1: the skis would just fall apart, never mind the residents,

1569
01:26:57,880 --> 01:27:07,720
Speaker 1: et cetera. Secondly, because of airline prices for baggage, there's

1570
01:27:07,800 --> 01:27:10,880
Speaker 1: a whole new paradigm which always existed. There was always

1571
01:27:10,920 --> 01:27:15,240
Speaker 1: a rental business. Then we went into the high end

1572
01:27:15,400 --> 01:27:18,960
Speaker 1: rental business and now there are plenty of people who

1573
01:27:19,200 --> 01:27:23,960
Speaker 1: travel without skis. There's a big issue of well, how

1574
01:27:24,120 --> 01:27:27,560
Speaker 1: many skis can be sold in the market, and we

1575
01:27:27,760 --> 01:27:31,120
Speaker 1: look at these individual companies. K two starts out as

1576
01:27:31,160 --> 01:27:36,240
Speaker 1: a private company in Vashon Island, Washington. The two Kirchen

1577
01:27:36,280 --> 01:27:37,960
Speaker 1: brothers owner for a long time. Then it goes to

1578
01:27:38,040 --> 01:27:41,800
Speaker 1: a couple of owners and nobody wanted it. Okay, it

1579
01:27:41,960 --> 01:27:46,880
Speaker 1: was successful. We have Rosignol sold to Quicksilver, a disaster

1580
01:27:47,520 --> 01:27:52,760
Speaker 1: repurchased by the original company. We have Solomon been through

1581
01:27:52,760 --> 01:27:55,720
Speaker 1: a few changes, goes to a mayor. We have a

1582
01:27:55,800 --> 01:27:59,320
Speaker 1: lot of companies that go out of business, Knisol, etc.

1583
01:28:00,080 --> 01:28:04,720
Speaker 1: On and on. Then we have the Nordica Group who

1584
01:28:04,840 --> 01:28:08,200
Speaker 1: builds a factory. Everyone says this is the stupidest thing

1585
01:28:08,280 --> 01:28:12,840
Speaker 1: of all time. And now Blizard is a dominant ski brand.

1586
01:28:13,280 --> 01:28:16,400
Speaker 1: Having said all of that, and you were talking about

1587
01:28:16,400 --> 01:28:19,160
Speaker 1: the value of Squad Valley, which is a large physical asset,

1588
01:28:19,880 --> 01:28:22,599
Speaker 1: there's not that many zeros. There's not that much money

1589
01:28:22,840 --> 01:28:26,000
Speaker 1: in the scheme. So if you go back decades, never

1590
01:28:26,080 --> 01:28:29,080
Speaker 1: mind opening your own ski area, you'd open your own

1591
01:28:29,320 --> 01:28:34,439
Speaker 1: drug store. That's all changed now. Okay. Even medical groups

1592
01:28:34,560 --> 01:28:36,879
Speaker 1: if you can find a doctor. Certainly in Los Angeles

1593
01:28:37,120 --> 01:28:40,360
Speaker 1: there are doctors, not parts of group. They don't take insurance.

1594
01:28:40,479 --> 01:28:44,160
Speaker 1: They might file. That's it. It's a very thin layer

1595
01:28:44,720 --> 01:28:48,879
Speaker 1: of the business. In addition, as I say, the skis

1596
01:28:49,040 --> 01:28:54,400
Speaker 1: last longer because of the quiver paradigm. Active skiers have

1597
01:28:54,560 --> 01:28:57,680
Speaker 1: more than one pair of skis. Yep, Okay, there may

1598
01:28:57,720 --> 01:28:59,639
Speaker 1: be a paer they don't use. We have the whole

1599
01:28:59,680 --> 01:29:02,600
Speaker 1: back entry thing. Terms of powder skis. If you have

1600
01:29:02,760 --> 01:29:05,320
Speaker 1: a pair ten years is good enough, even if the

1601
01:29:05,400 --> 01:29:09,160
Speaker 1: technology changes a little bit. So why go into the

1602
01:29:09,320 --> 01:29:11,439
Speaker 1: physical goods business?

1603
01:29:11,840 --> 01:29:17,720
Speaker 2: Now beyond a great question. But before I answer it,

1604
01:29:18,320 --> 01:29:20,560
Speaker 2: you went to Middlebury. Were you a ski racer or

1605
01:29:20,640 --> 01:29:21,320
Speaker 2: free I was.

1606
01:29:21,479 --> 01:29:24,920
Speaker 1: I was on a ski team once. Let's be clear,

1607
01:29:25,040 --> 01:29:27,559
Speaker 1: I was never of that caliber in terms of racer.

1608
01:29:27,880 --> 01:29:30,320
Speaker 1: I was on the team once I got hurt. Then

1609
01:29:30,800 --> 01:29:34,400
Speaker 1: after I went to Middlebury, I lived in Little Cottonwood

1610
01:29:34,479 --> 01:29:37,600
Speaker 1: Canyon and at the time, in the seventies, that was

1611
01:29:37,640 --> 01:29:40,040
Speaker 1: the epicenter of freestyle skiing. I did not know when

1612
01:29:40,080 --> 01:29:42,519
Speaker 1: I moved there, but it was I competed on the

1613
01:29:42,640 --> 01:29:47,080
Speaker 1: freestyle circuit. I wasn't a I mean I skied Scott

1614
01:29:47,120 --> 01:29:50,000
Speaker 1: Brooks Banks, all the guy skiving these people every day. Okay,

1615
01:29:50,200 --> 01:29:52,360
Speaker 1: but in terms of my results not good. And then

1616
01:29:52,400 --> 01:29:57,320
Speaker 1: you realize, okay, you know, people don't understand it any

1617
01:29:57,400 --> 01:30:03,160
Speaker 1: elite level of physical competition. It's sports. There are psychological

1618
01:30:03,240 --> 01:30:05,720
Speaker 1: elements in experium and this guy, Scott Brooks bake. I

1619
01:30:05,760 --> 01:30:07,880
Speaker 1: would ski with him every day. He would be just

1620
01:30:07,960 --> 01:30:11,880
Speaker 1: as good, if not better, in competition. The average person chokes,

1621
01:30:12,720 --> 01:30:15,439
Speaker 1: and an educated person would realize there's only a limited

1622
01:30:15,479 --> 01:30:18,200
Speaker 1: amount of money in this sport. Then a friend of ours,

1623
01:30:18,320 --> 01:30:22,000
Speaker 1: Dirk Douglas, got hurt on an inverted. They took the

1624
01:30:22,080 --> 01:30:26,559
Speaker 1: inverteds out of freestyle and it crashed the business. Now,

1625
01:30:26,640 --> 01:30:30,559
Speaker 1: ultimately Moguls were in the Olympics in renaissance. But that's

1626
01:30:30,640 --> 01:30:33,320
Speaker 1: a long answer to your brief question.

1627
01:30:33,960 --> 01:30:35,360
Speaker 2: Got it. But you know how to ski?

1628
01:30:35,800 --> 01:30:36,439
Speaker 1: Oh, believe me.

1629
01:30:36,520 --> 01:30:40,560
Speaker 2: I know how to ski, Gero Dow. Based on that,

1630
01:30:41,200 --> 01:30:43,120
Speaker 2: I go deep on the freestyle community. Not as a

1631
01:30:43,160 --> 01:30:45,599
Speaker 2: free see skier, but Park Smalley might have been.

1632
01:30:45,760 --> 01:30:48,160
Speaker 1: I used to skid. I ski with Park Smallly in

1633
01:30:48,280 --> 01:30:50,920
Speaker 1: Mammoth in nineteen seventy five. He came out and stayed

1634
01:30:50,960 --> 01:30:52,920
Speaker 1: with us long before he was a coach.

1635
01:30:53,439 --> 01:30:56,240
Speaker 2: He's a very very dear friend of mine from Steamboat College.

1636
01:30:56,600 --> 01:30:59,479
Speaker 2: Steamboat Yeah and yeah, we did a truckload of stuff.

1637
01:30:59,479 --> 01:31:02,479
Speaker 2: In fact, hosted a bunch of freestyle World Cups. One

1638
01:31:02,520 --> 01:31:05,280
Speaker 2: of them I named a whole freestyle complex after him,

1639
01:31:05,360 --> 01:31:09,120
Speaker 2: the Perks Freestyle Complex. I'm surprised him. It was really

1640
01:31:09,160 --> 01:31:11,840
Speaker 2: cool that night. But go deep in that space. In fact,

1641
01:31:12,000 --> 01:31:16,799
Speaker 2: very dear friend Johnny Moseley ninety eight Gold and Travis

1642
01:31:16,920 --> 01:31:20,320
Speaker 2: Mayor and other Steamboat kids mostly go deep in that space,

1643
01:31:20,400 --> 01:31:22,160
Speaker 2: but have a lot of respect. The other thing, by

1644
01:31:22,200 --> 01:31:23,920
Speaker 2: the way, terms of I don't know what your injuries were,

1645
01:31:24,040 --> 01:31:26,600
Speaker 2: but in the seventies and the early eighties, no, but

1646
01:31:26,800 --> 01:31:28,559
Speaker 2: you guys were doing some crazy stuff in the air

1647
01:31:28,680 --> 01:31:31,799
Speaker 2: and landing on hard pack. And now we put groups

1648
01:31:31,840 --> 01:31:34,960
Speaker 2: of choppers on the hill below the bumps, the airs

1649
01:31:34,960 --> 01:31:37,240
Speaker 2: on the bump courses, and certainly the aerials and stuff.

1650
01:31:37,280 --> 01:31:38,479
Speaker 2: You guys didn't have that, So I.

1651
01:31:38,520 --> 01:31:41,400
Speaker 1: Know, a vast improvement. I'm interrupting, but just to make

1652
01:31:41,479 --> 01:31:47,559
Speaker 1: this point in that that the ski business was driven

1653
01:31:47,640 --> 01:31:51,760
Speaker 1: by my air quotes racing skis for decades. Then you

1654
01:31:51,880 --> 01:31:54,839
Speaker 1: had K two that got out of the racing business,

1655
01:31:55,520 --> 01:31:59,480
Speaker 1: and certainly in America, racing skis don't mean that much. Ironically,

1656
01:31:59,600 --> 01:32:04,760
Speaker 1: skinny the skis still are sold in Europe much more

1657
01:32:04,880 --> 01:32:09,439
Speaker 1: than in the United States. However, we've gotten to a point,

1658
01:32:09,600 --> 01:32:13,080
Speaker 1: and this is just my own personal beef, that once

1659
01:32:13,160 --> 01:32:17,479
Speaker 1: you start making the moguls, it's become so profetd it's

1660
01:32:17,560 --> 01:32:21,000
Speaker 1: not the same way such that other than moguls, the

1661
01:32:21,120 --> 01:32:23,759
Speaker 1: best giers and you're working with buddy, the best skiers

1662
01:32:23,800 --> 01:32:26,200
Speaker 1: are the racers. Just to go one step further front

1663
01:32:26,240 --> 01:32:29,160
Speaker 1: of mine to instructor and Aspen, and there was a

1664
01:32:29,320 --> 01:32:33,000
Speaker 1: video of someone analyzing the technique of Marcel Herscher who

1665
01:32:33,160 --> 01:32:37,559
Speaker 1: was literally breaking every rule. Yeh okay, So there's different

1666
01:32:37,640 --> 01:32:39,679
Speaker 1: schools of thought. When I lived in Utah, the worst

1667
01:32:39,720 --> 01:32:41,559
Speaker 1: thing you could be, and you would laugh. You didn't

1668
01:32:41,560 --> 01:32:44,120
Speaker 1: want to be an instructor. We laughed at those people.

1669
01:32:44,520 --> 01:32:49,000
Speaker 1: By the same token, in most ski areas, the racers

1670
01:32:49,040 --> 01:32:51,680
Speaker 1: are off in their own hill, their own paradigm. No

1671
01:32:51,720 --> 01:32:54,559
Speaker 1: one even cares about those people. Then we had big

1672
01:32:54,640 --> 01:32:56,519
Speaker 1: mountain skiing. You know, we have the different album, but

1673
01:32:56,600 --> 01:33:02,240
Speaker 1: the average person is skiing in bounds, and an incredible

1674
01:33:02,320 --> 01:33:05,160
Speaker 1: percentage of people if it's a storm, won't even go

1675
01:33:05,280 --> 01:33:06,240
Speaker 1: out right.

1676
01:33:08,080 --> 01:33:10,679
Speaker 2: You know, you were in little Cottonwood. You were probably

1677
01:33:10,720 --> 01:33:14,080
Speaker 2: on two fours, two of sevens, two eleven's, probably raise skis,

1678
01:33:14,240 --> 01:33:17,720
Speaker 2: straight sticks, and you were hammering down on some of

1679
01:33:17,760 --> 01:33:22,160
Speaker 2: the bigger bumps. Totally pick up that scene. I would, well, we.

1680
01:33:22,200 --> 01:33:24,679
Speaker 1: Would laugh because people started to ski on one seventy

1681
01:33:24,760 --> 01:33:26,760
Speaker 1: zold and mark four that you're in seventy and the

1682
01:33:26,840 --> 01:33:27,439
Speaker 1: bombs come on.

1683
01:33:27,840 --> 01:33:30,760
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, totally look down on him appropriately so so

1684
01:33:31,160 --> 01:33:33,840
Speaker 2: Mary Jane, it was the same way Colorado in the

1685
01:33:33,840 --> 01:33:36,000
Speaker 2: mid eighties. It was like, you know you do not.

1686
01:33:36,200 --> 01:33:37,680
Speaker 2: In fact, I think they had signs up there they

1687
01:33:37,720 --> 01:33:40,639
Speaker 2: said anything less than a two four, literally you can't

1688
01:33:40,680 --> 01:33:45,479
Speaker 2: ski here, right right? Get it? So that's really cool.

1689
01:33:45,520 --> 01:33:48,200
Speaker 2: You have that background, that heritage and park's great guy,

1690
01:33:48,400 --> 01:33:53,120
Speaker 2: great friend. The answer your question comes back to something

1691
01:33:53,160 --> 01:33:55,800
Speaker 2: I didn't answer. Your first question was how do I

1692
01:33:55,880 --> 01:33:57,880
Speaker 2: know body? But it relates to this. So when I

1693
01:33:58,000 --> 01:34:02,680
Speaker 2: retired body, and I let me answer straight up, it

1694
01:34:02,800 --> 01:34:04,320
Speaker 2: makes no sense to be in the hard good side

1695
01:34:04,320 --> 01:34:09,759
Speaker 2: of the business when I came back from a Middle

1696
01:34:09,800 --> 01:34:12,720
Speaker 2: East Well, let me back up step. So I think

1697
01:34:12,800 --> 01:34:16,439
Speaker 2: I purchased probably five hundred to million pairs of skis

1698
01:34:16,479 --> 01:34:19,960
Speaker 2: in my career for different ski areas, and knowing a

1699
01:34:20,040 --> 01:34:24,920
Speaker 2: fair amount about the business, models would probably consistently think

1700
01:34:25,000 --> 01:34:26,760
Speaker 2: to myself, why would you ever want to be in

1701
01:34:26,840 --> 01:34:31,200
Speaker 2: that business? Because all the things you mentioned about ski

1702
01:34:31,280 --> 01:34:33,679
Speaker 2: resorts and the hard good side of the ski skis

1703
01:34:34,479 --> 01:34:36,479
Speaker 2: is right. In fact, we looked at a book on

1704
01:34:36,960 --> 01:34:39,559
Speaker 2: K two Mark or Vocal gosh, the thing was sixteen

1705
01:34:39,640 --> 01:34:42,720
Speaker 2: or something like that, rubber Maid and can't remember the

1706
01:34:42,760 --> 01:34:45,640
Speaker 2: different groups, but it'd be fair to say that the

1707
01:34:45,720 --> 01:34:48,639
Speaker 2: ski resorts side of business, even if you have somewhat

1708
01:34:48,640 --> 01:34:52,679
Speaker 2: of a clue, you're you're okay. Regardless of the market

1709
01:34:52,760 --> 01:34:55,160
Speaker 2: dynamics we've talked about, you're okay. You're probably doing twenty

1710
01:34:55,320 --> 01:34:58,599
Speaker 2: twenty five percent EBITDA margin on bad years and thirty

1711
01:34:58,640 --> 01:35:01,240
Speaker 2: thirty five percent EBITDA margin on decent years. And there

1712
01:35:01,280 --> 01:35:03,439
Speaker 2: are those who exceed that on an ongoing basis, and

1713
01:35:03,520 --> 01:35:06,960
Speaker 2: that's ebitdah right net operating cash call. It's not exactly that.

1714
01:35:07,040 --> 01:35:09,000
Speaker 2: Bullet's call it that for the time being, hard you

1715
01:35:09,000 --> 01:35:11,320
Speaker 2: goes side of the business different tale out of any

1716
01:35:11,439 --> 01:35:15,760
Speaker 2: ten years of any ski company you mentioned, it's not

1717
01:35:15,840 --> 01:35:19,479
Speaker 2: even a capital intensive business either, but because of the

1718
01:35:19,560 --> 01:35:24,559
Speaker 2: retail distribution model and more, and it's largely driven by

1719
01:35:24,960 --> 01:35:28,920
Speaker 2: Europeans save K two and their intensity of focus on racing.

1720
01:35:29,360 --> 01:35:32,120
Speaker 2: Be fair to say that any ten year period, you

1721
01:35:32,160 --> 01:35:34,800
Speaker 2: can take a snapshot and say two of those years

1722
01:35:34,880 --> 01:35:38,960
Speaker 2: they might pull down five to seven percent margin three

1723
01:35:39,120 --> 01:35:42,160
Speaker 2: or four of those ten years on I'm talking trailing

1724
01:35:42,240 --> 01:35:45,559
Speaker 2: ten years. Of any ten years, they're barely breaking even

1725
01:35:45,600 --> 01:35:48,040
Speaker 2: in those other two to three years. Remnant on this

1726
01:35:48,240 --> 01:35:50,880
Speaker 2: math is they're getting crushed like a bug on a

1727
01:35:50,920 --> 01:35:57,800
Speaker 2: windshield and knowing that, why would you want to do that? Right,

1728
01:35:58,240 --> 01:36:01,120
Speaker 2: Passion drives a lot of people, and in some cases

1729
01:36:01,160 --> 01:36:02,800
Speaker 2: I compared to some of the great folks I knew

1730
01:36:02,840 --> 01:36:06,719
Speaker 2: that used to run airlines Delta Continental and like there's

1731
01:36:06,760 --> 01:36:08,320
Speaker 2: times where they would not be doing well.

1732
01:36:09,880 --> 01:36:11,759
Speaker 1: I find it, We're going to buy an airline stock

1733
01:36:12,320 --> 01:36:13,760
Speaker 1: you know the history of airlines.

1734
01:36:13,800 --> 01:36:16,519
Speaker 2: I did do that, and we could talk an awful

1735
01:36:16,560 --> 01:36:18,519
Speaker 2: lot about that. That's also how it cut my teeth

1736
01:36:18,760 --> 01:36:21,360
Speaker 2: in the business and SKI was through all the analytics

1737
01:36:21,360 --> 01:36:22,080
Speaker 2: around the air program.

1738
01:36:22,200 --> 01:36:25,040
Speaker 1: What people don't know is those are subsidized flights into

1739
01:36:25,080 --> 01:36:28,160
Speaker 1: ski areas, so you guarantee a certain amount to the

1740
01:36:28,200 --> 01:36:31,719
Speaker 1: airline and if you don't hit that, the ski area

1741
01:36:31,760 --> 01:36:32,639
Speaker 1: makes up the shortfall.

1742
01:36:32,840 --> 01:36:36,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's exactly right. Called minimum revenue guarantees, And right

1743
01:36:36,439 --> 01:36:38,840
Speaker 2: out of in my internship, I was running models on that,

1744
01:36:39,080 --> 01:36:41,400
Speaker 2: which made no sense because I had no freaking earthly

1745
01:36:41,479 --> 01:36:43,720
Speaker 2: clue what I was doing. But I learned a lot

1746
01:36:43,880 --> 01:36:48,800
Speaker 2: in that process on those revenue guarantees. So back to

1747
01:36:48,880 --> 01:36:53,519
Speaker 2: the point, it's it didn't make sense. But when after

1748
01:36:53,560 --> 01:36:55,559
Speaker 2: I had retired, I got to know body really well.

1749
01:36:55,720 --> 01:36:57,559
Speaker 2: At this time, I was on the USK team board

1750
01:36:57,560 --> 01:37:01,679
Speaker 2: of directors and we I was living with my wife

1751
01:37:01,720 --> 01:37:05,080
Speaker 2: in San Juan Capistrano, California, and he was just up

1752
01:37:05,080 --> 01:37:09,640
Speaker 2: the road in Coda Kotakuta, Coda Dekaza, Coda Dekaza, the

1753
01:37:10,000 --> 01:37:11,040
Speaker 2: neighborhood down there in Orne.

1754
01:37:11,080 --> 01:37:12,599
Speaker 1: I know it's down by ranchall Sam Bernardo.

1755
01:37:12,960 --> 01:37:16,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know. Everything around here is a rancho

1756
01:37:16,479 --> 01:37:20,559
Speaker 2: or a. But we'd hang out, and at that time,

1757
01:37:20,640 --> 01:37:22,400
Speaker 2: most of it was, Hey, how do we fix the

1758
01:37:22,520 --> 01:37:25,800
Speaker 2: USK team. We're having some challenges again and again again.

1759
01:37:25,880 --> 01:37:29,920
Speaker 2: How do we stop this maddening cycle? Tragically in that

1760
01:37:30,200 --> 01:37:32,760
Speaker 2: we knew each other, we were friends. I pulled I'd

1761
01:37:33,000 --> 01:37:35,840
Speaker 2: been asked a long time ago, fourteen or thirteen to

1762
01:37:36,320 --> 01:37:39,360
Speaker 2: buy Governor Sandoval of Nevada and Governor Brown at the

1763
01:37:39,400 --> 01:37:41,519
Speaker 2: time of California to help bring the Olympics back to

1764
01:37:41,800 --> 01:37:45,880
Speaker 2: like Tahoe from nineteen sixty and I called him and

1765
01:37:46,439 --> 01:37:48,960
Speaker 2: pulled him into some of the initial discussions on that

1766
01:37:49,400 --> 01:37:51,880
Speaker 2: targeting twenty twenty two. So I knew him pretty well,

1767
01:37:52,280 --> 01:37:56,120
Speaker 2: and I knew him as a friend. And one of

1768
01:37:56,200 --> 01:37:58,840
Speaker 2: the other tales of Bodie this I think worth telling,

1769
01:37:58,960 --> 01:38:01,080
Speaker 2: is I was lining up to buy a whole bunch

1770
01:38:01,120 --> 01:38:03,320
Speaker 2: of skis for Squad Valley Alpai Metos, I know, like

1771
01:38:03,400 --> 01:38:07,200
Speaker 2: ten fifteen, twenty thousand pairs of skis, restock and head.

1772
01:38:07,439 --> 01:38:08,800
Speaker 2: He was on head at the time, but he was

1773
01:38:08,840 --> 01:38:11,920
Speaker 2: injured and he just basically didn't have a right foot

1774
01:38:11,920 --> 01:38:13,479
Speaker 2: that he could have put any pressure on. If you

1775
01:38:13,560 --> 01:38:16,200
Speaker 2: remember that injury, I think was thirteen something like that

1776
01:38:16,360 --> 01:38:21,040
Speaker 2: port right, and so Head to try and influence me, says, hey,

1777
01:38:21,080 --> 01:38:23,400
Speaker 2: we're going to bring Boddy Miller and hang out with him.

1778
01:38:23,479 --> 01:38:26,720
Speaker 2: They're like, okay, cool, And we ended up skiing for

1779
01:38:26,760 --> 01:38:29,000
Speaker 2: the day, just the two of us, him on one

1780
01:38:29,040 --> 01:38:31,160
Speaker 2: foot and me on both feet. I was able because

1781
01:38:31,200 --> 01:38:33,560
Speaker 2: of that to somewhat keep up with him, but we

1782
01:38:33,600 --> 01:38:35,960
Speaker 2: didn't talk about skis or skiing at all all day

1783
01:38:36,000 --> 01:38:38,720
Speaker 2: long because at that time he was going through a

1784
01:38:38,880 --> 01:38:44,479
Speaker 2: very public challenge with his daughter. And it was when,

1785
01:38:45,160 --> 01:38:47,240
Speaker 2: as you know, you have many very famous people on

1786
01:38:47,320 --> 01:38:49,640
Speaker 2: the show, with stuff like that happens, it ends up

1787
01:38:49,680 --> 01:38:52,960
Speaker 2: in freaking People magazine, and it's hard enough going through

1788
01:38:53,760 --> 01:38:58,679
Speaker 2: challenges with kids and a split family. Anyway, For those who.

1789
01:38:58,600 --> 01:39:00,560
Speaker 1: Don't know, he had a young daughter drown and a

1790
01:39:00,800 --> 01:39:02,040
Speaker 1: swimming pool well, just.

1791
01:39:02,080 --> 01:39:04,120
Speaker 2: About to get to that, and this case it's his

1792
01:39:04,200 --> 01:39:05,880
Speaker 2: older daughter. At that time, we all we did was

1793
01:39:05,920 --> 01:39:08,920
Speaker 2: talk about because I had three kids from a divorced family,

1794
01:39:08,960 --> 01:39:12,559
Speaker 2: and how to put yourself in your own interests behind

1795
01:39:12,880 --> 01:39:16,080
Speaker 2: those of the interests of your kid. All we talked

1796
01:39:16,080 --> 01:39:18,680
Speaker 2: about we skied and we were chair lifts, and that's

1797
01:39:18,680 --> 01:39:20,800
Speaker 2: all we talked about. We hardly and I was like,

1798
01:39:20,960 --> 01:39:25,479
Speaker 2: this guy's there's nothing like the persona many thought of,

1799
01:39:25,920 --> 01:39:29,280
Speaker 2: you know, showing up to start kits buel for the

1800
01:39:29,360 --> 01:39:33,880
Speaker 2: Hona khoum with a hangover, drunk or whatever. This solid

1801
01:39:33,920 --> 01:39:37,200
Speaker 2: guy inside I could see it. We ride chair lips

1802
01:39:37,240 --> 01:39:39,680
Speaker 2: with people. You get to get to see that if

1803
01:39:39,720 --> 01:39:43,240
Speaker 2: you know how to pay attention. I did. I was impressed,

1804
01:39:44,920 --> 01:39:48,040
Speaker 2: bookmark that. Then we were living near each other, were

1805
01:39:48,040 --> 01:39:50,400
Speaker 2: hanging out. We're the two guys that are retired, that

1806
01:39:50,479 --> 01:39:52,400
Speaker 2: have too much time on her hands, drifting a conversation

1807
01:39:52,520 --> 01:39:55,599
Speaker 2: at the coffee shop doing and then and then tragically

1808
01:39:55,680 --> 01:39:58,840
Speaker 2: his daughter Emmy died, And I do anything to undo that.

1809
01:39:59,280 --> 01:40:02,560
Speaker 2: I would take five rounds. I would do anything to

1810
01:40:02,680 --> 01:40:05,719
Speaker 2: undo the pain that that caused him and his wife, Morgan.

1811
01:40:07,439 --> 01:40:12,800
Speaker 2: It's just fucking heartbreaking, and I was amazed at how

1812
01:40:12,920 --> 01:40:15,519
Speaker 2: solid he was through that circumstance. I gave him a

1813
01:40:15,560 --> 01:40:18,120
Speaker 2: couple and gave him. I called him and said, I

1814
01:40:18,160 --> 01:40:19,840
Speaker 2: don't know, I don't have any words for you. I

1815
01:40:19,920 --> 01:40:21,560
Speaker 2: can't help you out. All I could do is be

1816
01:40:21,800 --> 01:40:26,160
Speaker 2: a wingman. And he called me too three days later

1817
01:40:26,680 --> 01:40:29,720
Speaker 2: and started off, did you know that drowning is the

1818
01:40:29,800 --> 01:40:33,479
Speaker 2: number one cause of infant death? Buddy had no idea.

1819
01:40:33,520 --> 01:40:35,880
Speaker 2: That's how he let off, Hey, Buddy, how you doing?

1820
01:40:36,680 --> 01:40:40,560
Speaker 2: Did you know that? And I was so from that

1821
01:40:40,800 --> 01:40:45,840
Speaker 2: point forward, I can't remember how to I don't even

1822
01:40:45,880 --> 01:40:48,679
Speaker 2: know how to describe that error. But became better friends,

1823
01:40:49,280 --> 01:40:52,320
Speaker 2: Like I said, do anything to freaking undo that shitty

1824
01:40:52,360 --> 01:40:56,200
Speaker 2: way to become better friends. But then we ended up

1825
01:40:56,280 --> 01:41:00,160
Speaker 2: drifting back into conversation about you a ski team, their

1826
01:41:00,240 --> 01:41:03,479
Speaker 2: business ventures and alike, and a lot of stuff in

1827
01:41:03,479 --> 01:41:05,800
Speaker 2: between there here and there. But then on an entirely

1828
01:41:05,840 --> 01:41:08,040
Speaker 2: different realm of work, line of work that I do,

1829
01:41:08,960 --> 01:41:10,599
Speaker 2: I was over the Middle East for about a year

1830
01:41:10,800 --> 01:41:14,400
Speaker 2: and change came back and I had by that time.

1831
01:41:14,360 --> 01:41:16,160
Speaker 1: We were up in Montana, this time out for one

1832
01:41:16,200 --> 01:41:17,559
Speaker 1: saying what were you doing in the Middle East?

1833
01:41:17,880 --> 01:41:23,960
Speaker 2: A couple of things. I was working for the Crown

1834
01:41:24,040 --> 01:41:27,840
Speaker 2: Prints of Saudi Arabia Mohammed Ben Solomon, and I don't

1835
01:41:27,920 --> 01:41:30,800
Speaker 2: have anything at all good to say about that person.

1836
01:41:32,160 --> 01:41:36,760
Speaker 2: He is everything you read about except worse. And so

1837
01:41:37,040 --> 01:41:38,920
Speaker 2: I was doing a couple of different things over there,

1838
01:41:39,760 --> 01:41:44,599
Speaker 2: and probably not something I talked about in great detail

1839
01:41:45,080 --> 01:41:48,439
Speaker 2: on air. But it was an entirely different sector in

1840
01:41:48,520 --> 01:41:52,160
Speaker 2: space I had to do with entirely nothing to do

1841
01:41:52,280 --> 01:41:53,920
Speaker 2: with skiing at all.

1842
01:41:54,680 --> 01:41:55,680
Speaker 1: What did it have to do with.

1843
01:41:58,640 --> 01:42:02,800
Speaker 2: A threat and risk assessment and mitigation and in some

1844
01:42:02,920 --> 01:42:07,720
Speaker 2: cases training with assets of our country that might be

1845
01:42:08,200 --> 01:42:13,559
Speaker 2: could be special way for operators working with their Ministry

1846
01:42:13,600 --> 01:42:15,800
Speaker 2: of Defense to help them improve their capabilities.

1847
01:42:15,960 --> 01:42:19,559
Speaker 1: How does one get that gig? It's a long story, Okay,

1848
01:42:19,560 --> 01:42:21,719
Speaker 1: then let's forget it. Yeah, comes from the Middle East.

1849
01:42:21,760 --> 01:42:24,000
Speaker 2: I come back from the Middle East and I have

1850
01:42:24,120 --> 01:42:27,479
Speaker 2: time on my hands. And at this point body says, hey,

1851
01:42:27,520 --> 01:42:29,120
Speaker 2: I want to help me out with this little project

1852
01:42:30,080 --> 01:42:32,760
Speaker 2: he's working on and it was with a hard goods company.

1853
01:42:32,800 --> 01:42:35,560
Speaker 2: It was a ski company, and he asked me to

1854
01:42:35,720 --> 01:42:38,800
Speaker 2: help do some work with this try and fix it up,

1855
01:42:39,120 --> 01:42:42,439
Speaker 2: remedy some of the challenges they were having. And at

1856
01:42:42,479 --> 01:42:44,960
Speaker 2: one point I said, body, I sure, I'll be doing

1857
01:42:45,000 --> 01:42:48,360
Speaker 2: anything for you, no problem at all. And it was

1858
01:42:48,439 --> 01:42:51,640
Speaker 2: fair to be fair to say that Warren Buffett couldn't

1859
01:42:51,680 --> 01:42:53,559
Speaker 2: fix this deal up. But in the meantime I had

1860
01:42:53,640 --> 01:42:56,519
Speaker 2: learned a lot. I learned a bit about manufacturing of skis,

1861
01:42:56,520 --> 01:42:58,800
Speaker 2: which I didn't know much, and I learned about some

1862
01:42:58,880 --> 01:43:00,880
Speaker 2: of the stuff that was in his mind mind that

1863
01:43:01,000 --> 01:43:05,360
Speaker 2: he never had a chance to put in place, because

1864
01:43:05,520 --> 01:43:07,759
Speaker 2: and that's actually part of the ethos of our company

1865
01:43:07,880 --> 01:43:11,320
Speaker 2: is this is what we've done, is take all the noise,

1866
01:43:11,400 --> 01:43:13,840
Speaker 2: all the egos, all the stuff, all the people in

1867
01:43:13,920 --> 01:43:15,840
Speaker 2: between his mind and the skis, and there's nothing in

1868
01:43:15,880 --> 01:43:18,360
Speaker 2: between the right what is in his mind is on

1869
01:43:18,439 --> 01:43:22,240
Speaker 2: the skis that you ski on hard stop. But in

1870
01:43:22,320 --> 01:43:25,200
Speaker 2: that process learned and then, oh gosh, I don't know,

1871
01:43:25,720 --> 01:43:28,200
Speaker 2: six months into it, said give me a second, and

1872
01:43:28,360 --> 01:43:33,320
Speaker 2: I crawled back into my rusty quantitative analytics mode cave

1873
01:43:33,640 --> 01:43:35,800
Speaker 2: and it ran a whole bunch of analysis, whole bunch

1874
01:43:35,840 --> 01:43:38,160
Speaker 2: of research, you know, kind of going back to my

1875
01:43:38,240 --> 01:43:41,120
Speaker 2: old days, and built some models and came out of

1876
01:43:41,200 --> 01:43:44,439
Speaker 2: that said here's the deal. Let's go do this. But

1877
01:43:44,560 --> 01:43:46,160
Speaker 2: we're going to have change the model because neither of

1878
01:43:46,240 --> 01:43:48,320
Speaker 2: us want to be in the hard goods business because

1879
01:43:48,320 --> 01:43:51,040
Speaker 2: of what we described earlier. What you described earlier to

1880
01:43:51,120 --> 01:43:54,000
Speaker 2: be true is true. But the only means by which

1881
01:43:54,080 --> 01:43:56,519
Speaker 2: to make this work is with these three, four or

1882
01:43:56,560 --> 01:44:02,280
Speaker 2: five tenants. And we're classic business planning stage stages of concept,

1883
01:44:02,360 --> 01:44:05,360
Speaker 2: proof of concept, developed business plan. We're in proof of concept,

1884
01:44:05,920 --> 01:44:08,960
Speaker 2: developing the business plan. And in this case we need

1885
01:44:09,000 --> 01:44:12,200
Speaker 2: to go direct consumer. Have e com only be our

1886
01:44:12,280 --> 01:44:16,360
Speaker 2: deal because the distribution system of ski shops and broker

1887
01:44:16,720 --> 01:44:19,840
Speaker 2: the broker groups, the buying groups were killing margin. And

1888
01:44:19,960 --> 01:44:22,360
Speaker 2: that's why you have that circumstance. Make a pair of

1889
01:44:22,400 --> 01:44:25,240
Speaker 2: skis for two hundred dollars a pair, right, sell them

1890
01:44:25,360 --> 01:44:28,280
Speaker 2: for eight hundred whatever the MSRP is or even the

1891
01:44:28,360 --> 01:44:32,360
Speaker 2: most available the most commonly available pricing. But then you're

1892
01:44:32,400 --> 01:44:35,920
Speaker 2: selling them to those resellers. It's not somewhat self evident.

1893
01:44:35,760 --> 01:44:38,120
Speaker 1: Right, they're selling them for like five hundred dollars.

1894
01:44:38,560 --> 01:44:42,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, but the manufacturing manufacturers are actually netting quite

1895
01:44:42,600 --> 01:44:43,439
Speaker 2: a bit less. Right.

1896
01:44:43,880 --> 01:44:45,519
Speaker 1: Well, what I'm trying to say is that coster two

1897
01:44:45,600 --> 01:44:48,680
Speaker 1: hundred wholesale is four to five hundred. The retailer may

1898
01:44:48,760 --> 01:44:50,960
Speaker 1: sell seven to eight So if they can sell them,

1899
01:44:51,240 --> 01:44:53,320
Speaker 1: they're making as much as the manufacturer.

1900
01:44:53,400 --> 01:44:55,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, and if it's four to five hundred on wholesale,

1901
01:44:55,280 --> 01:44:58,599
Speaker 2: that's a very good number. Suffice to say that we're

1902
01:44:58,640 --> 01:44:59,760
Speaker 2: not going to be able to do that. And now

1903
01:44:59,800 --> 01:45:02,080
Speaker 2: it's whatever it was twenty twenty one or twenty two.

1904
01:45:02,120 --> 01:45:05,519
Speaker 2: I would think so in that zone, and it might

1905
01:45:05,560 --> 01:45:09,960
Speaker 2: be the last industry to move into DTCEE con direct

1906
01:45:10,000 --> 01:45:15,320
Speaker 2: to consumer econ. Others sell skis smaller, great companies Jay

1907
01:45:15,880 --> 01:45:20,280
Speaker 2: Leventhal and they're great, and they've kind of had that model,

1908
01:45:20,320 --> 01:45:24,000
Speaker 2: but we're contemplating something a little bit bigger scale. And

1909
01:45:25,000 --> 01:45:28,000
Speaker 2: so that was our the business model, which sounds easier

1910
01:45:28,120 --> 01:45:31,600
Speaker 2: than it sounds easier to it's easy to say it

1911
01:45:31,640 --> 01:45:33,439
Speaker 2: out loud than it is to actually put it in place.

1912
01:45:34,080 --> 01:45:36,439
Speaker 2: But because you have a tradition, you have a history

1913
01:45:36,800 --> 01:45:40,160
Speaker 2: in ski business, and we respect that. There was more

1914
01:45:40,200 --> 01:45:41,840
Speaker 2: to it than that, but that was the key thing

1915
01:45:42,080 --> 01:45:43,320
Speaker 2: in terms of U saying we're going to do this,

1916
01:45:43,360 --> 01:45:45,560
Speaker 2: We're gonna have could go DTC com. I call the

1917
01:45:45,600 --> 01:45:48,280
Speaker 2: buddy of mine who ran Canyon Bikes, Great Bikes. He

1918
01:45:48,800 --> 01:45:52,160
Speaker 2: brought Canyon to the States in twenty sixteen and industry.

1919
01:45:52,200 --> 01:45:56,400
Speaker 2: That's a strong analog because bikes, bike shops and alike.

1920
01:45:57,520 --> 01:46:00,599
Speaker 2: But they had great success, and he was nice enought

1921
01:46:00,600 --> 01:46:03,200
Speaker 2: to open up his playbook and share with me. But

1922
01:46:03,360 --> 01:46:06,479
Speaker 2: it was basically three or four Harvard Business School case studies,

1923
01:46:06,520 --> 01:46:10,720
Speaker 2: full of notes, notepads, and adopted a lot of policies

1924
01:46:10,840 --> 01:46:14,960
Speaker 2: thinking approach the canyon. They fed straight into our business model.

1925
01:46:15,000 --> 01:46:19,240
Speaker 2: And when we announced Peak Ski Company April sixth, I

1926
01:46:19,320 --> 01:46:21,200
Speaker 2: think it was last year.

1927
01:46:28,439 --> 01:46:33,240
Speaker 1: So body Body retires and then of course he makes

1928
01:46:33,280 --> 01:46:36,880
Speaker 1: a deal with Bomber Skis, which ultimately became an elite ski.

1929
01:46:37,479 --> 01:46:40,519
Speaker 1: He leaves Bomber, but elite in terms of price, small

1930
01:46:40,640 --> 01:46:41,200
Speaker 1: market ski.

1931
01:46:41,400 --> 01:46:41,559
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1932
01:46:41,960 --> 01:46:45,479
Speaker 1: Then he goes with a Pacific Northwest company Cross and

1933
01:46:45,640 --> 01:46:49,080
Speaker 1: he really says he's invested in that company. Then he

1934
01:46:49,280 --> 01:46:54,240
Speaker 1: leaves that to go to Peak. Now for the once again,

1935
01:46:54,920 --> 01:46:59,200
Speaker 1: every business is small at the top. However, skiing is

1936
01:46:59,320 --> 01:47:03,800
Speaker 1: a it is relatively small compared to software, cars, whatever.

1937
01:47:04,560 --> 01:47:09,800
Speaker 1: So within the business one can argue quite strongly based

1938
01:47:09,840 --> 01:47:15,439
Speaker 1: on conversation, that he hurt his image by jumping from

1939
01:47:15,560 --> 01:47:19,320
Speaker 1: company to company. Yeah, and therefore, to what degree is

1940
01:47:19,400 --> 01:47:22,280
Speaker 1: that a factor? It's almost like well now I'm starting over,

1941
01:47:22,400 --> 01:47:23,599
Speaker 1: but it's like the third time.

1942
01:47:23,880 --> 01:47:27,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, your point's really well made, particularly in the

1943
01:47:27,400 --> 01:47:30,679
Speaker 2: consumer market view of things. It's very well made, particularly

1944
01:47:30,720 --> 01:47:33,080
Speaker 2: those who are fishonados in the sport and follow and

1945
01:47:33,160 --> 01:47:36,160
Speaker 2: track that that's not many, to be honest with you.

1946
01:47:36,320 --> 01:47:38,720
Speaker 2: But at the same time, your points well made. In

1947
01:47:38,800 --> 01:47:41,439
Speaker 2: this case, he was kind of indifferent to it. And frankly,

1948
01:47:41,640 --> 01:47:45,000
Speaker 2: I was two, and we had the benefit of being

1949
01:47:45,520 --> 01:47:48,760
Speaker 2: of being indifferent to that and saying okay, got it.

1950
01:47:49,479 --> 01:47:51,120
Speaker 2: But I knew on the inside. He knew on the

1951
01:47:51,200 --> 01:47:55,439
Speaker 2: inside what had and had not happened at all ski companies,

1952
01:47:55,520 --> 01:47:58,600
Speaker 2: including those two that you mentioned, and that was fundamentally

1953
01:47:58,680 --> 01:48:02,200
Speaker 2: his ability to take what is you have to understand.

1954
01:48:02,240 --> 01:48:05,920
Speaker 2: I know he's been on your show. I equated him

1955
01:48:05,920 --> 01:48:09,160
Speaker 2: because I grew up in the Air Force to the

1956
01:48:09,280 --> 01:48:14,840
Speaker 2: right stuff, General Chuck Yeager, you would go to the

1957
01:48:15,040 --> 01:48:17,880
Speaker 2: skunk works is when that was first developed, and hang

1958
01:48:17,920 --> 01:48:20,759
Speaker 2: out with the flight engineers all day long, months and months,

1959
01:48:20,880 --> 01:48:22,760
Speaker 2: and then you get a cup of coffee, jump in

1960
01:48:22,800 --> 01:48:24,599
Speaker 2: a flight suit and go fly the damn thing. Come

1961
01:48:24,680 --> 01:48:28,160
Speaker 2: back feed input to the engineers, saying it mock point nine.

1962
01:48:28,200 --> 01:48:29,759
Speaker 2: And I know this because he's a friend of my father's.

1963
01:48:30,640 --> 01:48:33,200
Speaker 2: He was an experimental pilot too at some point, and

1964
01:48:33,880 --> 01:48:38,879
Speaker 2: held General Dieger in great esteem. He was unlike anybody

1965
01:48:38,920 --> 01:48:42,000
Speaker 2: else because he could make how the X one happened.

1966
01:48:42,200 --> 01:48:43,920
Speaker 2: He didn't just fly the damn thing. He played a

1967
01:48:43,960 --> 01:48:46,720
Speaker 2: role in its development. I realized a bodie's like that.

1968
01:48:46,800 --> 01:48:50,200
Speaker 2: I also really realized that his mind is very different

1969
01:48:50,280 --> 01:48:54,360
Speaker 2: than many think. He's got a creativity. There's times I've

1970
01:48:54,360 --> 01:48:56,320
Speaker 2: been on hundreds of hours of calls with him, Bob,

1971
01:48:56,800 --> 01:48:59,519
Speaker 2: with engineers, some of the best engineers at Design Skis,

1972
01:49:00,080 --> 01:49:02,160
Speaker 2: and it's just times I'll hang up and go, when

1973
01:49:02,200 --> 01:49:05,800
Speaker 2: did you get your Masters in engineering from MIT? He's

1974
01:49:05,840 --> 01:49:10,280
Speaker 2: got this brilliant mind. What's that great movie with Robin

1975
01:49:10,320 --> 01:49:13,880
Speaker 2: Williams about the guy running calculus? He's a janitor. He's

1976
01:49:13,960 --> 01:49:19,920
Speaker 2: doing calculus on the chalkboard in between wiping floors. Oh God,

1977
01:49:20,120 --> 01:49:21,320
Speaker 2: was that movie. I can't remember the name of that

1978
01:49:21,320 --> 01:49:23,680
Speaker 2: one right now. It escapes me. But he's got this

1979
01:49:24,120 --> 01:49:26,400
Speaker 2: mental level brilliance, creative brilliance.

1980
01:49:26,560 --> 01:49:28,439
Speaker 1: Well, for those who follow, and as you say, it's

1981
01:49:28,479 --> 01:49:32,400
Speaker 1: a limited number. Body and Marcel Herscher were known as

1982
01:49:32,479 --> 01:49:36,680
Speaker 1: the most terms of tinkerers. Yep, Marcel Herscher was more

1983
01:49:36,760 --> 01:49:40,000
Speaker 1: focusing a lot of times. I'mlike, what was the ramp angle?

1984
01:49:40,080 --> 01:49:42,639
Speaker 1: And is the grinding of his boots? Not that body

1985
01:49:42,760 --> 01:49:45,639
Speaker 1: wasn't into that either, But just to stop with Marcel

1986
01:49:45,760 --> 01:49:49,800
Speaker 1: for a minute, Marcel has his own company, Van Deere.

1987
01:49:50,400 --> 01:49:54,439
Speaker 1: Red Bull is a heavy component of that. Van Deer

1988
01:49:55,160 --> 01:49:59,000
Speaker 1: is also in racing, which you know is a crazy thing,

1989
01:49:59,080 --> 01:50:02,880
Speaker 1: but you can't make any money. They are coming Garth

1990
01:50:02,920 --> 01:50:05,599
Speaker 1: Select will be stocking their skis at a very high

1991
01:50:05,800 --> 01:50:09,760
Speaker 1: race point two thousand. What do you think of that.

1992
01:50:11,439 --> 01:50:15,280
Speaker 2: Legendary skier body? And I to a lesser extent that

1993
01:50:16,040 --> 01:50:17,599
Speaker 2: to the extent of that matters have a great deal

1994
01:50:17,600 --> 01:50:19,320
Speaker 2: of respect for that gentleman and what they're taking on

1995
01:50:19,439 --> 01:50:21,920
Speaker 2: in red Bull Holy crap, I mean Red Bull Media

1996
01:50:21,960 --> 01:50:25,040
Speaker 2: house and what they do. They hunt butterflies with howitzers,

1997
01:50:25,360 --> 01:50:30,240
Speaker 2: not shotguns, and they're forced to be contented. We specifically

1998
01:50:30,280 --> 01:50:33,080
Speaker 2: are choosing, to your point, not to engage in the

1999
01:50:33,160 --> 01:50:36,599
Speaker 2: race community. To get deep into the World Cup level

2000
01:50:36,720 --> 01:50:40,320
Speaker 2: racing is a commitment that are that we chose to

2001
01:50:41,160 --> 01:50:44,680
Speaker 2: not take on as part of our business model. It

2002
01:50:44,840 --> 01:50:50,960
Speaker 2: is a very European centric approach and that's understandable, as

2003
01:50:51,000 --> 01:50:53,400
Speaker 2: you well know, alpine ski racing doesn't have nearly the

2004
01:50:53,520 --> 01:50:56,760
Speaker 2: traction in the US that it does in Europe. We're

2005
01:50:56,840 --> 01:50:59,519
Speaker 2: just I'm going over to sold in here in three weeks,

2006
01:51:00,360 --> 01:51:02,600
Speaker 2: we're going to the first World Cup race. Yeah, and

2007
01:51:02,800 --> 01:51:06,120
Speaker 2: we're going to launch Peak over the EU and as

2008
01:51:06,160 --> 01:51:09,200
Speaker 2: part of the lead up to that EU UK we

2009
01:51:09,320 --> 01:51:12,360
Speaker 2: call it and not we, but it's called And in

2010
01:51:12,439 --> 01:51:15,200
Speaker 2: this case everybody have interacted. Well, you guys know that

2011
01:51:15,280 --> 01:51:18,439
Speaker 2: Marcel is doing stuff right, yeah, and God bless them.

2012
01:51:19,520 --> 01:51:21,400
Speaker 2: This comes back to your point earlier. You mentioned that

2013
01:51:21,560 --> 01:51:24,400
Speaker 2: there's about nine hundred thousand, two million pairs of skis

2014
01:51:24,400 --> 01:51:27,160
Speaker 2: every year in the US. Sold in Europe, it's two

2015
01:51:27,200 --> 01:51:30,920
Speaker 2: point two millions total available market, total accessible market, and

2016
01:51:31,320 --> 01:51:35,200
Speaker 2: we're taking on very very small components of that. Thoughtfully,

2017
01:51:35,320 --> 01:51:37,280
Speaker 2: we think in terms of what we're trying to take on,

2018
01:51:37,400 --> 01:51:40,439
Speaker 2: where we're seeking to accomplish with our small but high

2019
01:51:40,479 --> 01:51:43,080
Speaker 2: impact company, we think, and in this case a lot

2020
01:51:43,080 --> 01:51:46,800
Speaker 2: of respect from oursel he's got great skis. The price point,

2021
01:51:46,880 --> 01:51:50,719
Speaker 2: the distribution system, the manner, you know, the simple aspect

2022
01:51:50,800 --> 01:51:53,160
Speaker 2: is what's going to be your price point? Establish it

2023
01:51:53,439 --> 01:51:55,960
Speaker 2: how's it going to appeal to what consumer? Price is

2024
01:51:56,000 --> 01:52:02,280
Speaker 2: as much part of brand as anything, both by pushing

2025
01:52:02,320 --> 01:52:04,320
Speaker 2: people away from your product, but also in some cases

2026
01:52:04,360 --> 01:52:07,919
Speaker 2: attracting them. Right, folks want to have the most expensive

2027
01:52:07,960 --> 01:52:10,120
Speaker 2: ski with gold leaf on the top sheet and all

2028
01:52:10,160 --> 01:52:12,880
Speaker 2: that stuff. That's not my deal, it's not bodies deal.

2029
01:52:13,240 --> 01:52:16,320
Speaker 2: It's not worry about. And so we have a different

2030
01:52:16,479 --> 01:52:20,000
Speaker 2: offering a different value and expressing the quality of the

2031
01:52:20,040 --> 01:52:21,680
Speaker 2: skis and skiing experience. So we have a lot of

2032
01:52:21,720 --> 01:52:24,519
Speaker 2: respect from ourselves what he's got going on for such family,

2033
01:52:24,640 --> 01:52:27,720
Speaker 2: great operation. We're direct to consumer eCOM and.

2034
01:52:28,320 --> 01:52:30,240
Speaker 1: Okay, but let's go to the other side. The reason

2035
01:52:30,280 --> 01:52:33,160
Speaker 1: I bring Van Deere is it's the only small company

2036
01:52:33,479 --> 01:52:38,320
Speaker 1: that seems to be playing on a relatively realistic competing

2037
01:52:38,439 --> 01:52:41,320
Speaker 1: with the other brands. Because in addition to that, more

2038
01:52:41,360 --> 01:52:45,240
Speaker 1: than ever, they're these boutique companies. Yeah, the biggest, the

2039
01:52:45,320 --> 01:52:48,280
Speaker 1: one of the best reputation is Wagner out of tel

2040
01:52:48,320 --> 01:52:51,680
Speaker 1: your Ride Yep. The reason I mentioned Wagner is if

2041
01:52:51,760 --> 01:52:53,840
Speaker 1: you buy a pair of Wagner skis which are one

2042
01:52:53,920 --> 01:52:56,280
Speaker 1: hundred percent custom I mean gore such will sell you

2043
01:52:56,360 --> 01:52:59,880
Speaker 1: and off the rack Wagner etc. But generally speaking, you call,

2044
01:53:00,240 --> 01:53:04,120
Speaker 1: you talk to them. However, they ask you for your

2045
01:53:04,280 --> 01:53:09,760
Speaker 1: boots sole length, right, and they mount the binding. There's

2046
01:53:09,920 --> 01:53:15,920
Speaker 1: this point of friction. Okay, So you are selling a

2047
01:53:16,520 --> 01:53:20,920
Speaker 1: product that is direct to consumer, but inherently the person

2048
01:53:21,080 --> 01:53:24,559
Speaker 1: has to take it to retail to get the skis mounted.

2049
01:53:24,640 --> 01:53:28,080
Speaker 1: You sell bindings, whether they buy bindings there or whatever.

2050
01:53:28,439 --> 01:53:32,080
Speaker 1: When they get the ski, it is not sciable.

2051
01:53:32,000 --> 01:53:35,479
Speaker 2: Right, that is correct? Is there a question there? Yes,

2052
01:53:36,160 --> 01:53:39,120
Speaker 2: so I know your question, Bob, I'm.

2053
01:53:38,960 --> 01:53:43,759
Speaker 3: Sorry, okay, and also you know do you see yourself? Okay, Wagner,

2054
01:53:43,960 --> 01:53:45,639
Speaker 3: let me let me have okay, go, let me address

2055
01:53:45,640 --> 01:53:48,120
Speaker 3: your point. I didn't mean to be contankerous on that,

2056
01:53:48,240 --> 01:53:55,040
Speaker 3: but your forget the business model that I built did

2057
01:53:55,120 --> 01:53:59,760
Speaker 3: not contemplate. I spent thirty years, and I say this

2058
01:53:59,840 --> 01:54:02,960
Speaker 3: for effectfully everybody with a JD at some point in

2059
01:54:03,040 --> 01:54:07,439
Speaker 3: their academic career, working in a risk intense environment in

2060
01:54:07,479 --> 01:54:12,080
Speaker 3: different states, different countries, Colorado, Utah, California, British Columbia. And

2061
01:54:13,360 --> 01:54:15,960
Speaker 3: the amount of time, effort, money we put into defense

2062
01:54:17,479 --> 01:54:21,519
Speaker 3: against PI attorneys, they circle they have a role. I

2063
01:54:21,760 --> 01:54:25,920
Speaker 3: don't deny that. Also, in some cases it'd be.

2064
01:54:25,960 --> 01:54:28,439
Speaker 2: Long story but a fair amount of time, effort, money

2065
01:54:28,880 --> 01:54:31,240
Speaker 2: gone into that. I built this business model in a

2066
01:54:31,360 --> 01:54:36,320
Speaker 2: fashion that did not contemplate taking on that type of liability.

2067
01:54:36,400 --> 01:54:39,160
Speaker 2: And the only liability risk that is associated with our

2068
01:54:39,200 --> 01:54:43,919
Speaker 2: business in that case exists when we get into mounting bindings.

2069
01:54:44,400 --> 01:54:46,680
Speaker 2: And you know as well as I do anybody who's

2070
01:54:46,800 --> 01:54:49,960
Speaker 2: a listener rols releases of liability only goes so far.

2071
01:54:50,920 --> 01:54:54,879
Speaker 2: You can't disclaim gross negligence, and of course PI attorneys

2072
01:54:54,920 --> 01:54:58,360
Speaker 2: feed off of that, and so we've chosen to not

2073
01:54:58,640 --> 01:55:00,520
Speaker 2: engage in mounting.

2074
01:55:01,360 --> 01:55:04,600
Speaker 1: So quite consciously because of liability issues, you're not doing that,

2075
01:55:04,840 --> 01:55:05,480
Speaker 1: that is correct.

2076
01:55:05,880 --> 01:55:11,520
Speaker 2: We have built, just like Canyon did, many service oriented

2077
01:55:11,760 --> 01:55:16,440
Speaker 2: workarounds for the customer. We consult with people one on

2078
01:55:16,560 --> 01:55:20,880
Speaker 2: one if they have interest. You folks live in Chicago, Dallas,

2079
01:55:20,920 --> 01:55:24,560
Speaker 2: Fort Worth, they have ski shops and what's become more

2080
01:55:24,680 --> 01:55:27,880
Speaker 2: common even through backcountry dot Com, people buy skis without

2081
01:55:27,880 --> 01:55:30,440
Speaker 2: bindings and they take those skis down to their ski

2082
01:55:30,520 --> 01:55:32,640
Speaker 2: shop in Dallas and they pay the tech seventy five

2083
01:55:32,680 --> 01:55:34,920
Speaker 2: dollars to mount these TYROLA binding zone good to go.

2084
01:55:35,520 --> 01:55:39,880
Speaker 2: So yeah, we consciously choose this path for those reasons,

2085
01:55:39,920 --> 01:55:43,520
Speaker 2: and more so Bob, it's critical, and I can't tell

2086
01:55:43,520 --> 01:55:46,680
Speaker 2: you how sincere I am. You come up These phrases

2087
01:55:47,200 --> 01:55:50,000
Speaker 2: maybe seen as cliches. Most of the time, we co

2088
01:55:50,160 --> 01:55:53,600
Speaker 2: opt them. In this case, this is mine for my life,

2089
01:55:53,680 --> 01:55:57,040
Speaker 2: my career, my experiences. I've never met a horse, a mountain,

2090
01:55:57,480 --> 01:55:59,400
Speaker 2: a dog, or a pair of skis I don't like.

2091
01:56:00,280 --> 01:56:02,720
Speaker 2: And that's more than just respect. I'm not Body Miller,

2092
01:56:02,760 --> 01:56:04,520
Speaker 2: I'm not you. I know how to ski, and I

2093
01:56:04,560 --> 01:56:08,800
Speaker 2: can ski kind of almost anywhere. How well I do

2094
01:56:08,880 --> 01:56:13,000
Speaker 2: it is probably up for grabs. But I say that respectfully.

2095
01:56:13,080 --> 01:56:16,360
Speaker 2: I've been on the people that run these companies, the

2096
01:56:16,400 --> 01:56:18,760
Speaker 2: people that have built skis, love them all. They're my friends.

2097
01:56:19,400 --> 01:56:21,680
Speaker 2: Everything we're doing is respectful but taken in the past.

2098
01:56:21,680 --> 01:56:23,280
Speaker 2: But we have a different approach. We have a different

2099
01:56:23,760 --> 01:56:27,360
Speaker 2: take on things. The why Body and Andy came out

2100
01:56:27,360 --> 01:56:30,600
Speaker 2: of retirement to do this is really predicated upon this

2101
01:56:30,880 --> 01:56:33,200
Speaker 2: other statement as phrase of the least important thing about

2102
01:56:33,200 --> 01:56:36,200
Speaker 2: our company or the skis. But they're critical, a very

2103
01:56:36,280 --> 01:56:42,160
Speaker 2: purposeful my trying to channel Yogi Berra. The skis are

2104
01:56:42,440 --> 01:56:47,040
Speaker 2: quite good, quite prideful in what we've developed. The business

2105
01:56:47,120 --> 01:56:50,680
Speaker 2: around it is, as I've mentioned, includes taking the noise

2106
01:56:50,720 --> 01:56:53,120
Speaker 2: and the people and the pride and the egos out

2107
01:56:53,160 --> 01:56:56,440
Speaker 2: of in between Bodie's mind and the skis. But there's

2108
01:56:56,480 --> 01:56:59,600
Speaker 2: other things where we have going on with Peak Ski Company,

2109
01:56:59,640 --> 01:57:04,400
Speaker 2: including these strategic initiatives, technology integration. We announced Peak Locate.

2110
01:57:04,880 --> 01:57:07,680
Speaker 1: Okay, Wall, let's let's leave those. We'll come back to

2111
01:57:07,760 --> 01:57:10,400
Speaker 1: this second. But let's just talk about the ski.

2112
01:57:10,560 --> 01:57:10,760
Speaker 2: Yeah.

2113
01:57:10,800 --> 01:57:14,959
Speaker 1: Yeah, So in a perfect world, Yeah, something like Wagner,

2114
01:57:15,320 --> 01:57:19,960
Speaker 1: that's boutique Jay Skis, the guy started line. He's got

2115
01:57:19,960 --> 01:57:22,480
Speaker 1: a certain market, but he's within his own niche. Sure,

2116
01:57:22,800 --> 01:57:26,120
Speaker 1: do you see Peak as a niche company or do

2117
01:57:26,200 --> 01:57:28,720
Speaker 1: you want to have enough traction to compete against the

2118
01:57:28,800 --> 01:57:29,839
Speaker 1: traditional majors.

2119
01:57:30,960 --> 01:57:33,200
Speaker 2: We know for a fact that we have enough traction

2120
01:57:33,360 --> 01:57:37,920
Speaker 2: to compete against the majors now at a much lower

2121
01:57:37,960 --> 01:57:41,560
Speaker 2: the volume. And I'll put in context. We'll make sell

2122
01:57:41,680 --> 01:57:47,480
Speaker 2: probably hundred pairs of skis this year. That's very small

2123
01:57:47,800 --> 01:57:50,880
Speaker 2: compared to Fisher, Solomon and the other big brands you've mentioned,

2124
01:57:51,600 --> 01:57:53,280
Speaker 2: And keep in mind, and we take on ten thousand

2125
01:57:53,320 --> 01:57:56,800
Speaker 2: pairs of skis. Say it was just the US. It's

2126
01:57:56,840 --> 01:57:59,840
Speaker 2: not exactly trying to take on the taxi industry like

2127
01:58:00,040 --> 01:58:03,760
Speaker 2: Uber did, Right, You know do quick math, and it's

2128
01:58:03,840 --> 01:58:07,760
Speaker 2: less than one percent of total available market, So one

2129
01:58:07,840 --> 01:58:09,960
Speaker 2: could say, wow, set in the bar pretty low, and

2130
01:58:10,240 --> 01:58:14,760
Speaker 2: that'd be a fair statement. So we know we can compete.

2131
01:58:15,360 --> 01:58:18,720
Speaker 2: How fast we grow is going to be a very thoughtful,

2132
01:58:18,880 --> 01:58:25,040
Speaker 2: conscious effort, guided by a whole bunch of research, response

2133
01:58:25,160 --> 01:58:29,240
Speaker 2: and response from the customer. But it's unlikely that with

2134
01:58:29,440 --> 01:58:32,840
Speaker 2: wild success that we grow that number beyond twenty thousand

2135
01:58:32,880 --> 01:58:35,640
Speaker 2: and three years. And that's because that's not our intent.

2136
01:58:35,840 --> 01:58:40,600
Speaker 2: Our intent really relates to the strategic initiatives. So we'll

2137
01:58:40,720 --> 01:58:44,600
Speaker 2: continue to develop and make very good skis, and we

2138
01:58:44,720 --> 01:58:47,040
Speaker 2: fold in some of the other elements of the strategic

2139
01:58:47,200 --> 01:58:51,839
Speaker 2: innovation that we're doing, including locating devices, including advanced materials

2140
01:58:51,880 --> 01:58:55,280
Speaker 2: development with Thermoplastics and alike with a group out of Idaho,

2141
01:58:56,560 --> 01:59:00,760
Speaker 2: and even the entirely re engineering the manufacturing pers some skis.

2142
01:59:01,280 --> 01:59:03,120
Speaker 2: I'm not trying to pivot out of your question, but

2143
01:59:03,680 --> 01:59:06,320
Speaker 2: the reason why the intent Boddy and I came out

2144
01:59:06,360 --> 01:59:09,400
Speaker 2: of retirement take this on. We've had covered the directed

2145
01:59:09,480 --> 01:59:12,160
Speaker 2: consumer model, we've covered the margin, and we're not in

2146
01:59:12,480 --> 01:59:16,960
Speaker 2: where we're conscious, we're aware we're not Gordon Gecko. At

2147
01:59:16,960 --> 01:59:18,960
Speaker 2: the same time, We did not enter into this business

2148
01:59:19,240 --> 01:59:24,640
Speaker 2: with nonprofit in mind. We have we're profit oriented and

2149
01:59:24,680 --> 01:59:28,920
Speaker 2: we're doing well. With that said, the primary motivation is

2150
01:59:29,120 --> 01:59:31,640
Speaker 2: too is a means to an end to fund and

2151
01:59:31,920 --> 01:59:35,680
Speaker 2: get these strategic initiatives going, because that's where we get

2152
01:59:35,880 --> 01:59:38,800
Speaker 2: true motivation. That's where I passionalized. And the answer your

2153
01:59:38,880 --> 01:59:40,680
Speaker 2: question is again not trying to avoid it. But I

2154
01:59:40,720 --> 01:59:42,520
Speaker 2: guess we're a niche. I don't know. I don't want

2155
01:59:42,520 --> 01:59:42,760
Speaker 2: to try.

2156
01:59:42,840 --> 01:59:47,640
Speaker 1: You know, historically the business was based on hot skis.

2157
01:59:48,400 --> 01:59:50,880
Speaker 1: You know, whether it's the sixties the ros and all

2158
01:59:50,960 --> 01:59:54,440
Speaker 1: Strato and the DTA meet VR seventeen, whether in the

2159
01:59:55,160 --> 01:59:58,600
Speaker 1: nineties it was the Rosie for us, in the turn

2160
01:59:58,640 --> 02:00:02,080
Speaker 1: of the century it was Solomon Excreme. Now if you

2161
02:00:02,240 --> 02:00:05,640
Speaker 1: go on the hill today, unlike in the other days,

2162
02:00:05,640 --> 02:00:08,400
Speaker 1: you will never see one dominant brand, right Whereas it

2163
02:00:08,560 --> 02:00:11,120
Speaker 1: used to be a majority of people would have that

2164
02:00:11,280 --> 02:00:15,480
Speaker 1: particular thing. But since it is a word of mouth

2165
02:00:15,600 --> 02:00:20,760
Speaker 1: business and companies go hot and cold, if you got traction,

2166
02:00:21,520 --> 02:00:24,960
Speaker 1: one would think that you'd want to sell seventy thousand

2167
02:00:25,040 --> 02:00:25,920
Speaker 1: pairs of skis.

2168
02:00:26,000 --> 02:00:31,160
Speaker 2: Sure, and that may take place. I think it's unlikely

2169
02:00:33,640 --> 02:00:35,360
Speaker 2: for a bunch of different reasons, and it's hard to

2170
02:00:35,720 --> 02:00:39,800
Speaker 2: summarize them as simple to still down points. But that's

2171
02:00:39,840 --> 02:00:41,640
Speaker 2: not our goal. Maybe that takes place.

2172
02:00:41,680 --> 02:00:44,120
Speaker 1: I mean it is a skier, okay, there's a point

2173
02:00:44,160 --> 02:00:47,480
Speaker 1: of pride in the equipment, like in any equipment intensive business,

2174
02:00:47,880 --> 02:00:50,880
Speaker 1: auto racing, et cetera. And they are the people who

2175
02:00:50,960 --> 02:00:53,800
Speaker 1: buy the zy skis, by the four thousand dollars skis,

2176
02:00:53,800 --> 02:00:55,200
Speaker 1: and they want to be the one person on the

2177
02:00:55,320 --> 02:00:58,600
Speaker 1: hill who has them. But a lot of skiers at

2178
02:00:58,640 --> 02:01:01,480
Speaker 1: the elite level they want to be on what other

2179
02:01:01,600 --> 02:01:05,520
Speaker 1: people are on. Yeah, okay, so if they see one

2180
02:01:05,640 --> 02:01:08,720
Speaker 1: person out of ten being on peak skis, they say

2181
02:01:08,800 --> 02:01:12,000
Speaker 1: that's a boutique skis. Sure, Like in Colorado you'll see

2182
02:01:12,040 --> 02:01:15,000
Speaker 1: Wagner skis, which you know on a regular basis, so

2183
02:01:15,160 --> 02:01:18,240
Speaker 1: you know they're expensive. This is not a mainstream thing.

2184
02:01:18,720 --> 02:01:21,960
Speaker 1: Last year you saw peak skis were I skied not

2185
02:01:22,240 --> 02:01:25,120
Speaker 1: that many. But let me just shift gears here a

2186
02:01:25,160 --> 02:01:30,400
Speaker 1: little bit. Okay, I skied on one brand of skis

2187
02:01:31,160 --> 02:01:34,320
Speaker 1: for the better part of ten years. I got many

2188
02:01:34,520 --> 02:01:37,960
Speaker 1: peers of this brand. They used to as you know,

2189
02:01:38,120 --> 02:01:40,440
Speaker 1: the cycles used to be brief for every three years.

2190
02:01:40,560 --> 02:01:43,400
Speaker 1: The really change of skis. Other than the paint. Now

2191
02:01:43,600 --> 02:01:46,720
Speaker 1: some people are going to four years, etc. But the

2192
02:01:46,880 --> 02:01:51,440
Speaker 1: last two iterations have been somewhat less satisfying. So I

2193
02:01:51,600 --> 02:01:54,240
Speaker 1: decided to go to the shop, the elite shop, and say,

2194
02:01:54,240 --> 02:01:56,760
Speaker 1: you know, I'll ski everything you got, okay.

2195
02:01:57,280 --> 02:01:57,360
Speaker 2: And.

2196
02:01:59,520 --> 02:02:03,480
Speaker 1: I end up buying a brand that I hadn't brought

2197
02:02:03,560 --> 02:02:08,960
Speaker 1: for fifty years. Okay, because I bought the K twos.

2198
02:02:08,960 --> 02:02:10,840
Speaker 1: I haven't had a K two for fifty years.

2199
02:02:10,960 --> 02:02:11,720
Speaker 2: Sweet, Okay.

2200
02:02:12,520 --> 02:02:16,160
Speaker 1: Just to go very specifically, everybody's hot on the storm Writer.

2201
02:02:16,760 --> 02:02:21,800
Speaker 1: Storm Writer is the very smooth skies. But if you

2202
02:02:21,880 --> 02:02:24,240
Speaker 1: want to go in the bumps or whatever, you know,

2203
02:02:24,560 --> 02:02:29,600
Speaker 1: it's relatively stiff. It's not that quick. The bona fide

2204
02:02:30,360 --> 02:02:34,040
Speaker 1: used to be a complete truck, a joke in my

2205
02:02:34,200 --> 02:02:36,440
Speaker 1: but it'll plow through anything that's got no life. They

2206
02:02:36,560 --> 02:02:41,000
Speaker 1: made vast improvements. You could own that ski. I would

2207
02:02:41,040 --> 02:02:44,040
Speaker 1: have a hard time rationalizing that ski. I'm a person.

2208
02:02:44,200 --> 02:02:44,320
Speaker 2: You know.

2209
02:02:44,840 --> 02:02:49,120
Speaker 1: These characteristics have changed. But it used to be that

2210
02:02:49,320 --> 02:02:53,160
Speaker 1: the French ski was a very lively, fast turning ski,

2211
02:02:53,200 --> 02:02:57,440
Speaker 1: whereas the Austrian and German skis were the opposite. There's

2212
02:02:57,480 --> 02:03:00,520
Speaker 1: been a trend towards the Austrian and German skis. I

2213
02:03:00,760 --> 02:03:02,960
Speaker 1: am more of a friend ski person. I got a

2214
02:03:03,040 --> 02:03:06,080
Speaker 1: million pairs of Dina Stars, and I even skied the

2215
02:03:06,160 --> 02:03:08,920
Speaker 1: new Dina Stars before I bought them. They turn much

2216
02:03:08,960 --> 02:03:13,160
Speaker 1: better than the K twos. Okay, however, they do not

2217
02:03:13,280 --> 02:03:16,080
Speaker 1: hold on the herds no, right, you know? And you

2218
02:03:16,160 --> 02:03:18,920
Speaker 1: know why right, Well they made them for a year

2219
02:03:19,040 --> 02:03:22,160
Speaker 1: without metal, which was a joke. And now if they

2220
02:03:22,200 --> 02:03:25,320
Speaker 1: have the exact opposite of K two where the rocket frame,

2221
02:03:25,400 --> 02:03:27,600
Speaker 1: where they have less in the front. But I'm interested

2222
02:03:27,680 --> 02:03:29,160
Speaker 1: in your theory why they don't hold.

2223
02:03:29,920 --> 02:03:35,040
Speaker 2: Torsional rigidity in the waste. It's that simple. Most skis

2224
02:03:35,280 --> 02:03:37,640
Speaker 2: have the same trait or characteristic from tip to tail.

2225
02:03:38,960 --> 02:03:43,360
Speaker 2: And I got to know that there's in between thirteen

2226
02:03:43,400 --> 02:03:46,560
Speaker 2: and fifteen million skiers in the US, and none of

2227
02:03:46,640 --> 02:03:50,560
Speaker 2: them are the same, like any industry, like any product,

2228
02:03:51,280 --> 02:03:55,560
Speaker 2: and in this case, everybody has different expectations. You have

2229
02:03:56,000 --> 02:03:58,520
Speaker 2: a level of experience and knowledge that you can feel

2230
02:03:58,600 --> 02:04:02,600
Speaker 2: stuff in skis. Frankly, very few people can You can

2231
02:04:02,680 --> 02:04:05,040
Speaker 2: feel it and you can even articulate it, which is

2232
02:04:05,120 --> 02:04:12,720
Speaker 2: even fewer people. The Enforcer series great skis.

2233
02:04:12,480 --> 02:04:14,560
Speaker 1: Well, well wait, you know I'm on the opposite. That's

2234
02:04:15,560 --> 02:04:18,040
Speaker 1: that's a ski that I think people are buying on reputation,

2235
02:04:18,640 --> 02:04:21,280
Speaker 1: right if they ski it and they skied other things,

2236
02:04:21,360 --> 02:04:23,320
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people on Enforcers would not

2237
02:04:23,400 --> 02:04:24,600
Speaker 1: buy that ski, and.

2238
02:04:24,720 --> 02:04:30,200
Speaker 2: I, you know, respect your view. There's a lot of

2239
02:04:30,280 --> 02:04:33,480
Speaker 2: things we buy, whether it be phones, glasses, you know,

2240
02:04:33,640 --> 02:04:36,040
Speaker 2: that are based on what others are saying. Of course,

2241
02:04:37,000 --> 02:04:39,720
Speaker 2: in this case, I've been on them, the Enforcer Unlimited.

2242
02:04:39,760 --> 02:04:41,880
Speaker 2: I love it. It's a nice lightweight ski that's kind

2243
02:04:41,920 --> 02:04:44,400
Speaker 2: of does backcountry pretty well and light light.

2244
02:04:44,480 --> 02:04:47,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm talking about the traditional ninety four one hundred

2245
02:04:47,200 --> 02:04:49,400
Speaker 1: with two layers of metal zach et cetera.

2246
02:04:50,000 --> 02:04:51,920
Speaker 2: By the way, remind me to talk about Titanol, which

2247
02:04:51,960 --> 02:04:53,840
Speaker 2: I didn't learn about until a year and a half ago.

2248
02:04:53,880 --> 02:04:57,600
Speaker 2: It's a funny story on that. So all of your

2249
02:04:57,640 --> 02:05:00,400
Speaker 2: points were well made. Everybody has a different perspect actives

2250
02:05:01,360 --> 02:05:03,360
Speaker 2: on this and their viewpoints what they're looking to skip.

2251
02:05:03,400 --> 02:05:06,400
Speaker 2: But back to the point of the skis. The torsial

2252
02:05:06,520 --> 02:05:09,880
Speaker 2: legidity is something you can find and get quickly, so

2253
02:05:10,760 --> 02:05:12,480
Speaker 2: you'll hear, oh, they're really great skis. We got to

2254
02:05:12,520 --> 02:05:14,600
Speaker 2: really stand on them, right. You hear that constantly for

2255
02:05:14,720 --> 02:05:17,440
Speaker 2: the thirty years over thirty years or it's a really

2256
02:05:17,520 --> 02:05:21,320
Speaker 2: gumby soft powder ski, right, why and so get that

2257
02:05:21,440 --> 02:05:23,480
Speaker 2: on hard pack good luck, because it's a it's a

2258
02:05:23,560 --> 02:05:30,320
Speaker 2: noodle right torsally not very rigid. Everybody has different purposes.

2259
02:05:30,880 --> 02:05:33,400
Speaker 2: You're used to be an East Coast guy a long

2260
02:05:33,480 --> 02:05:35,600
Speaker 2: time ago, but now you're kind of Sierra's guy, right,

2261
02:05:35,640 --> 02:05:37,280
Speaker 2: so you're probably gonna wider underfoot ski.

2262
02:05:37,480 --> 02:05:39,240
Speaker 1: I got a lot of skis. I got my seventy

2263
02:05:39,280 --> 02:05:41,960
Speaker 1: two is my eighty six billion in the nineties, got

2264
02:05:42,000 --> 02:05:44,000
Speaker 1: my one aweight. It's got my one eighteens it. You've

2265
02:05:44,000 --> 02:05:45,640
Speaker 1: got to have the right tool for the right day.

2266
02:05:45,960 --> 02:05:50,600
Speaker 2: For many reasons. You're way more like I saw ed

2267
02:05:51,040 --> 02:05:53,280
Speaker 2: Vetter and this guy's over the weekend and I just

2268
02:05:53,360 --> 02:05:55,760
Speaker 2: saw a Guitarists used to be a little bit better

2269
02:05:55,760 --> 02:05:58,640
Speaker 2: than I am nowadays, but I guitar envy. I mean,

2270
02:05:58,680 --> 02:06:01,360
Speaker 2: I saw some Fender strap being played. I'm like, I

2271
02:06:01,400 --> 02:06:04,640
Speaker 2: want that guitar, that guitar, that guitar. I'm a less Paul.

2272
02:06:04,760 --> 02:06:07,080
Speaker 2: I'm a Gibson less Paul. Custom guy. Just loved this

2273
02:06:07,320 --> 02:06:09,240
Speaker 2: sound that came out of Dickey Betts. When I was young.

2274
02:06:09,320 --> 02:06:11,360
Speaker 2: It was like, I want that sound, that about a

2275
02:06:11,360 --> 02:06:13,400
Speaker 2: sixty three Fender basement amp to go with it. It's

2276
02:06:13,480 --> 02:06:15,680
Speaker 2: like three quarters or at least a quarter of the

2277
02:06:15,720 --> 02:06:18,120
Speaker 2: great songs have been written on the Fender nineteen fifty

2278
02:06:18,240 --> 02:06:21,920
Speaker 2: nine Gibson Less Paul custom plugged into a Fenders right

2279
02:06:22,040 --> 02:06:26,160
Speaker 2: basement amp. I want that sound right, Maybe you or

2280
02:06:26,280 --> 02:06:28,880
Speaker 2: like that. I want that out of performance of a

2281
02:06:28,920 --> 02:06:31,800
Speaker 2: ski and still plenty of room for people want to

2282
02:06:31,840 --> 02:06:35,360
Speaker 2: play strats or telecasters or less Paul's or you name it.

2283
02:06:35,360 --> 02:06:37,440
Speaker 2: It's the way I see it, and a bit of

2284
02:06:37,480 --> 02:06:39,440
Speaker 2: a reach on an analog, but I hope you appreciate

2285
02:06:39,480 --> 02:06:42,040
Speaker 2: the point of the effort there. Point being is back

2286
02:06:42,120 --> 02:06:46,760
Speaker 2: to the skis. It's not magic, but the key hole

2287
02:06:46,920 --> 02:06:49,720
Speaker 2: allows the best of both worlds. It's a little bit

2288
02:06:49,720 --> 02:06:53,640
Speaker 2: of a bipolar situation, and you'll appreciate this. It's obviously

2289
02:06:53,720 --> 02:06:56,360
Speaker 2: a podcast so Kim visually, but the front third of

2290
02:06:56,400 --> 02:06:58,960
Speaker 2: the ski, from the tip to the unlike other skis,

2291
02:06:59,000 --> 02:07:01,280
Speaker 2: they have the same trait orcharacteristic from tip to tail.

2292
02:07:01,880 --> 02:07:04,320
Speaker 2: It's soft and forgiving on the front third, and so

2293
02:07:04,440 --> 02:07:10,760
Speaker 2: turn initiation is shockingly there and easy. And I remember

2294
02:07:10,760 --> 02:07:13,040
Speaker 2: the first time being on the prototypes December two, two

2295
02:07:13,160 --> 02:07:16,360
Speaker 2: years ago and I noticed it. I'm not as good

2296
02:07:16,360 --> 02:07:18,040
Speaker 2: as ski as you were, body, but I can ski

2297
02:07:18,120 --> 02:07:20,760
Speaker 2: in a holy crap. I mean this the first time

2298
02:07:20,840 --> 02:07:24,280
Speaker 2: on these skis, the turn initiation, this case eighty eighths

2299
02:07:24,280 --> 02:07:26,480
Speaker 2: of the first boards out. I couldn't believe. It's like,

2300
02:07:26,600 --> 02:07:29,120
Speaker 2: this makes no sense, and I was waiting for it

2301
02:07:29,200 --> 02:07:31,240
Speaker 2: to be gumby once I loaded it up, got into

2302
02:07:31,280 --> 02:07:34,960
Speaker 2: a turn, but because soft on the front turn initiation.

2303
02:07:35,120 --> 02:07:37,520
Speaker 2: But then all of this is not by accident. This

2304
02:07:37,640 --> 02:07:40,080
Speaker 2: is stuff that does not happen by accident. Once you

2305
02:07:40,120 --> 02:07:43,160
Speaker 2: start loading up the ski, all of the weight pressure

2306
02:07:43,160 --> 02:07:46,160
Speaker 2: of the physics pull pull everything to the midwaist of

2307
02:07:46,200 --> 02:07:49,040
Speaker 2: the ski, and now it's torsionally rigid underfoot. And that's

2308
02:07:49,120 --> 02:07:55,800
Speaker 2: why you have this Unlike other ski designs, the turn

2309
02:07:55,880 --> 02:07:58,120
Speaker 2: initiations there, whether it be the eighty eighths or the

2310
02:07:58,200 --> 02:08:00,920
Speaker 2: one tens, but then it's Stiffen's up on her foot

2311
02:08:00,960 --> 02:08:03,320
Speaker 2: once you loaded up, and it's tortially rigid underfoot, and

2312
02:08:03,320 --> 02:08:04,960
Speaker 2: that's why it holds me.

2313
02:08:05,080 --> 02:08:07,040
Speaker 1: Let me more to than that, But let me just

2314
02:08:07,160 --> 02:08:10,160
Speaker 1: stop here on the point that I was making so

2315
02:08:11,280 --> 02:08:15,280
Speaker 1: in veil my friend at a pair of the peaks,

2316
02:08:15,760 --> 02:08:18,480
Speaker 1: he thought that the guy gave in to him was

2317
02:08:18,480 --> 02:08:22,520
Speaker 1: an investor lived in the let's that's irrelevant. Sure, but

2318
02:08:22,720 --> 02:08:25,280
Speaker 1: he said, okay, you know, go out on him. But

2319
02:08:25,400 --> 02:08:27,080
Speaker 1: I'm doing my own thing. And then he said, O,

2320
02:08:27,120 --> 02:08:29,520
Speaker 1: I passed them to somebody at Beaver Creek, so I

2321
02:08:29,640 --> 02:08:33,720
Speaker 1: didn't get on them. Let's be point blank sure, okay,

2322
02:08:34,040 --> 02:08:37,960
Speaker 1: bring it. In the ski industry, the people who were

2323
02:08:38,000 --> 02:08:45,360
Speaker 1: in the traditional retail business, they are down on peak

2324
02:08:45,520 --> 02:08:49,360
Speaker 1: for a number of reasons. Bodies jumping from company to company,

2325
02:08:50,440 --> 02:08:53,920
Speaker 1: and two they don't sell them and they want to

2326
02:08:54,000 --> 02:08:57,120
Speaker 1: do retail. Then there are some elite places they want

2327
02:08:57,160 --> 02:08:59,320
Speaker 1: to sell things that are not footballed. But let's not

2328
02:08:59,520 --> 02:09:03,440
Speaker 1: get into that, okay. So the reason I brought up

2329
02:09:03,480 --> 02:09:06,600
Speaker 1: the demo of the skis, I could have gotten anything

2330
02:09:07,480 --> 02:09:12,040
Speaker 1: at below wholesale, and I said, okay, I'm skiing so much,

2331
02:09:12,880 --> 02:09:16,280
Speaker 1: let me go demo and whatever. And I ended up

2332
02:09:16,320 --> 02:09:19,960
Speaker 1: buying what I never would have bought, Okay, which those

2333
02:09:20,080 --> 02:09:23,320
Speaker 1: K twos. I bought a couple of pairs, the ninety nine.

2334
02:09:23,640 --> 02:09:26,400
Speaker 1: The one aweight is an unbelievable ski that's better than

2335
02:09:26,520 --> 02:09:31,760
Speaker 1: the ninety nine. But whatever, My point being, this is

2336
02:09:31,840 --> 02:09:35,080
Speaker 1: a business of people who are buying traditional, top of

2337
02:09:35,080 --> 02:09:37,280
Speaker 1: the line skis. I'm not talking about custom skis. I'm

2338
02:09:37,280 --> 02:09:40,240
Speaker 1: not talking about two thousand dollars skis. Skis at usually

2339
02:09:40,440 --> 02:09:44,560
Speaker 1: MSRPs like seven ninety nine. An incredible percentage of those

2340
02:09:44,600 --> 02:09:48,320
Speaker 1: people want to ski on that ski before they buy it,

2341
02:09:48,600 --> 02:09:52,800
Speaker 1: sure now more than ever. But I can't ski on

2342
02:09:52,880 --> 02:09:56,800
Speaker 1: the peak. So what do you have to say that

2343
02:09:56,920 --> 02:09:59,880
Speaker 1: as peak? I mean I basically have to blindly buy it.

2344
02:10:00,280 --> 02:10:03,680
Speaker 2: Mm hmm blindly and then if you don't like them

2345
02:10:03,720 --> 02:10:06,360
Speaker 2: after thirty days urn and no questions asked. Now here's

2346
02:10:06,400 --> 02:10:11,320
Speaker 2: the point points well made. The key is traditional in

2347
02:10:11,440 --> 02:10:15,360
Speaker 2: ski industry. We are not traditional, and we're really in

2348
02:10:15,480 --> 02:10:18,280
Speaker 2: the industry by default, but we just don't see it

2349
02:10:18,360 --> 02:10:22,880
Speaker 2: that way. In this case, Canyon bikes have the same exactly.

2350
02:10:23,120 --> 02:10:24,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know canyon bikes, but if I were to

2351
02:10:25,040 --> 02:10:27,720
Speaker 1: bike and bike, I don't know. When it comes to

2352
02:10:27,840 --> 02:10:30,280
Speaker 1: my door, does it have to be assembled?

2353
02:10:30,520 --> 02:10:30,760
Speaker 2: Yeah?

2354
02:10:31,120 --> 02:10:32,120
Speaker 1: And who assembles it.

2355
02:10:32,320 --> 02:10:34,160
Speaker 2: That you can if you don't know how to gear

2356
02:10:34,240 --> 02:10:37,040
Speaker 2: it and wrench it. You they have a company that

2357
02:10:37,080 --> 02:10:40,400
Speaker 2: comes helps you put it together. But it's pretty pretty good.

2358
02:10:40,760 --> 02:10:42,320
Speaker 2: But let me do let me just so I know,

2359
02:10:42,360 --> 02:10:46,400
Speaker 2: because I'm interested. So someone comes to your door like

2360
02:10:46,560 --> 02:10:48,920
Speaker 2: Wilson Speakers, and you pay them one hundred dollars and

2361
02:10:49,000 --> 02:10:52,240
Speaker 2: they you're not bringing it to a retail shop, right, Okay,

2362
02:10:52,360 --> 02:10:54,840
Speaker 2: that is correct, But the point being is go to

2363
02:10:54,920 --> 02:10:57,360
Speaker 2: a ski shop, go to a bike shop. That's the analog.

2364
02:10:58,040 --> 02:11:00,960
Speaker 2: What do people do at the bike shop. They get

2365
02:11:01,000 --> 02:11:02,800
Speaker 2: on that bike and they ride around the parking lot,

2366
02:11:03,080 --> 02:11:05,560
Speaker 2: turn it and say, oh, buy it or not. But

2367
02:11:05,800 --> 02:11:08,000
Speaker 2: up into that point, it's been shaped and formed by

2368
02:11:08,600 --> 02:11:10,880
Speaker 2: what the Tour de France guys are on, what everybody

2369
02:11:10,880 --> 02:11:13,840
Speaker 2: else is saying. They are local bike club guys, you

2370
02:11:13,920 --> 02:11:16,920
Speaker 2: name strap, all kinds of stuff. Much the same as

2371
02:11:17,040 --> 02:11:19,200
Speaker 2: if you were to demo a pair of peaks, you

2372
02:11:19,240 --> 02:11:21,520
Speaker 2: would trade your driver's license at at ten by ten

2373
02:11:21,640 --> 02:11:24,320
Speaker 2: ten and get ninety minutes on that ski. Now, a

2374
02:11:24,360 --> 02:11:28,200
Speaker 2: guy like you could probably probably have a good chance of,

2375
02:11:28,280 --> 02:11:30,400
Speaker 2: no matter what the conditions are in that ninety minutes,

2376
02:11:30,440 --> 02:11:31,800
Speaker 2: figure out that ski pretty quickly.

2377
02:11:32,160 --> 02:11:34,360
Speaker 1: I think one or two runs I found is usually enough.

2378
02:11:34,480 --> 02:11:37,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm going to point out that you are atypical.

2379
02:11:37,640 --> 02:11:38,280
Speaker 2: Not to believe me.

2380
02:11:38,360 --> 02:11:40,760
Speaker 1: I know most people this has been a joke for

2381
02:11:40,880 --> 02:11:44,080
Speaker 1: sixty years. They paid them they love them. You're right,

2382
02:11:44,120 --> 02:11:46,920
Speaker 1: they all do you like those skis? You never get

2383
02:11:47,000 --> 02:11:48,600
Speaker 1: someone who says, hey, they're not that good.

2384
02:11:49,520 --> 02:11:55,040
Speaker 2: Exactly the ability to demo skis. We bludgeon that barrier

2385
02:11:55,440 --> 02:11:59,160
Speaker 2: by saying, no questions asked, thirty days, give us your money,

2386
02:11:59,280 --> 02:12:01,040
Speaker 2: send them back, no questions asked, We'll pay for the

2387
02:12:01,080 --> 02:12:04,760
Speaker 2: shipping back. All learned by from Canyon in this case scam.

2388
02:12:04,960 --> 02:12:07,760
Speaker 2: Thirty days. You can put sixteen different pair of bindings

2389
02:12:07,760 --> 02:12:09,960
Speaker 2: on them. You can skim every minute of every day

2390
02:12:10,040 --> 02:12:13,280
Speaker 2: for those thirty in all kinds of conditions. You choose

2391
02:12:13,360 --> 02:12:15,240
Speaker 2: where and how and when you ski those, send them

2392
02:12:15,280 --> 02:12:16,720
Speaker 2: back to us. Done deal.

2393
02:12:16,880 --> 02:12:18,520
Speaker 1: So what percentage of people send them back?

2394
02:12:18,840 --> 02:12:21,480
Speaker 2: Two point eight percent? Do you want to know? Why?

2395
02:12:22,200 --> 02:12:22,760
Speaker 1: Okay? Why?

2396
02:12:23,520 --> 02:12:26,240
Speaker 2: Mostly because they think they wanted a wider underfoot or

2397
02:12:26,360 --> 02:12:33,000
Speaker 2: narrower underfoot model. Very I think maybe a granted we're small, right,

2398
02:12:33,160 --> 02:12:37,120
Speaker 2: but maybe for thirty forty pair of skis came back

2399
02:12:37,160 --> 02:12:39,200
Speaker 2: because they just didn't like them. That's cool, and we

2400
02:12:39,320 --> 02:12:40,200
Speaker 2: learned from those folks.

2401
02:12:41,080 --> 02:12:42,960
Speaker 1: Okay, but let's say I was one of those people.

2402
02:12:43,000 --> 02:12:46,440
Speaker 1: I returned the skis. Yeah, you're going to say, absolutely,

2403
02:12:46,480 --> 02:12:48,280
Speaker 1: give them the money back. But Why what am I

2404
02:12:48,360 --> 02:12:49,880
Speaker 1: going to find out? If I turn you? Am I

2405
02:12:49,920 --> 02:12:52,120
Speaker 1: going to get any reluctance? You're gonna give me credit

2406
02:12:52,200 --> 02:12:53,360
Speaker 1: on my credit card? Immediately?

2407
02:12:53,560 --> 02:12:57,360
Speaker 2: Yes, credit? The latter of this two a credit card credit.

2408
02:12:57,440 --> 02:12:59,080
Speaker 1: What did you learn from the people who didn't want

2409
02:12:59,120 --> 02:12:59,560
Speaker 1: them at all?

2410
02:13:00,520 --> 02:13:02,200
Speaker 2: They didn't like how they turn them. Many of them

2411
02:13:02,240 --> 02:13:05,880
Speaker 2: were very very high performance skiers, former ski racers. Many

2412
02:13:05,920 --> 02:13:08,760
Speaker 2: I couldn't tell you empirically, but the vast majority were

2413
02:13:09,720 --> 02:13:13,960
Speaker 2: high end skiers racers really wanting something more with a

2414
02:13:14,120 --> 02:13:18,040
Speaker 2: consistent trait of tip to tail. They wanted torsal rigidity

2415
02:13:18,080 --> 02:13:21,280
Speaker 2: all the way through or something else. But in some

2416
02:13:21,400 --> 02:13:23,800
Speaker 2: cases they weren't too sure how to articulate. Interestingly, I

2417
02:13:23,880 --> 02:13:26,640
Speaker 2: found that folks can know they like or don't like

2418
02:13:26,680 --> 02:13:29,080
Speaker 2: a ski, but it's also tough for them to articulate.

2419
02:13:29,160 --> 02:13:32,920
Speaker 2: Why so that bike shop thing? But right right right,

2420
02:13:33,040 --> 02:13:36,720
Speaker 2: going to a bike into store, what's the first thing

2421
02:13:36,720 --> 02:13:39,680
Speaker 2: that happens to go to a ski shop? Tac too?

2422
02:13:39,680 --> 02:13:42,440
Speaker 2: A guy, you have some perspective shaped by the outside

2423
02:13:42,480 --> 02:13:44,680
Speaker 2: magazine gear guy that just came out, and what do

2424
02:13:44,720 --> 02:13:46,880
Speaker 2: they do? They grab pair of skis and they bend them. Right,

2425
02:13:47,440 --> 02:13:49,560
Speaker 2: guy like you knows how what he's feeling. Guy like

2426
02:13:49,640 --> 02:13:53,240
Speaker 2: body knows. Of the fifteen million skiers in this country,

2427
02:13:53,360 --> 02:13:56,280
Speaker 2: about fourteen point nine million have no idea what they're

2428
02:13:56,280 --> 02:13:57,520
Speaker 2: feeling when they bend those skis.

2429
02:13:57,880 --> 02:14:00,880
Speaker 1: I would say, you're right, so.

2430
02:14:02,520 --> 02:14:05,400
Speaker 2: Respectfully, of all the great ski shops and ski technicians

2431
02:14:05,440 --> 02:14:08,520
Speaker 2: and the people that sell skis, how much value they

2432
02:14:08,600 --> 02:14:12,760
Speaker 2: add in that transaction is varying. In our case, we

2433
02:14:12,840 --> 02:14:14,760
Speaker 2: have a straight up direct line of communication with the

2434
02:14:14,800 --> 02:14:19,000
Speaker 2: customer prospects as well as customers. And you know, we

2435
02:14:19,080 --> 02:14:21,480
Speaker 2: contend that ride and bike around a parking lot like canyon,

2436
02:14:21,840 --> 02:14:24,120
Speaker 2: not doing it, getting on the skis for third days,

2437
02:14:24,840 --> 02:14:28,560
Speaker 2: bang them, test them, drive them, send them back to them.

2438
02:14:28,600 --> 02:14:30,400
Speaker 2: If you don't like us. It's that simple. It's a

2439
02:14:30,560 --> 02:14:34,160
Speaker 2: pretty It's kind of Nordstroms has that deal from back

2440
02:14:34,200 --> 02:14:37,000
Speaker 2: in the nineties. Remember when Nordstroms had that classic service

2441
02:14:37,040 --> 02:14:39,360
Speaker 2: story of guy comes back with four pairs of tire

2442
02:14:39,360 --> 02:14:41,360
Speaker 2: a four sets for tires and says, I want to

2443
02:14:41,360 --> 02:14:44,680
Speaker 2: return them. Nor from person said sure, Well, then the

2444
02:14:44,760 --> 02:14:47,320
Speaker 2: course the services story is that they don't sell tires.

2445
02:14:47,800 --> 02:14:50,840
Speaker 2: In this case, we're in that same mode because why

2446
02:14:50,960 --> 02:14:54,400
Speaker 2: because in this case it's a mitigan against the business

2447
02:14:54,440 --> 02:14:57,320
Speaker 2: planning process, going to call it B school type of

2448
02:14:57,320 --> 02:15:01,120
Speaker 2: course stuff. It's a mitigan against the resistance, the consumer resistance,

2449
02:15:01,160 --> 02:15:03,440
Speaker 2: because there's a history of people buying skis a certain

2450
02:15:03,520 --> 02:15:05,880
Speaker 2: way and doing them sort of including demo tents. The

2451
02:15:05,960 --> 02:15:10,600
Speaker 2: scariest say, we get that, we're we're acknowledging the past.

2452
02:15:10,640 --> 02:15:13,280
Speaker 2: At the same time, we have some mitigants to help

2453
02:15:13,320 --> 02:15:17,360
Speaker 2: people get to and through that. And thankfully that's going.

2454
02:15:17,520 --> 02:15:18,280
Speaker 2: It's going pretty well.

2455
02:15:18,400 --> 02:15:20,760
Speaker 1: Okay, if you go on your websites, you were selling

2456
02:15:20,880 --> 02:15:25,240
Speaker 1: one brand of binding. Look now the conventional price, you

2457
02:15:25,320 --> 02:15:28,400
Speaker 1: can get them from anywhere. Yeah, why Look, why sell

2458
02:15:28,480 --> 02:15:29,240
Speaker 1: bindings at all?

2459
02:15:29,320 --> 02:15:33,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, we are agnostic to bindings people have. And maybe

2460
02:15:33,920 --> 02:15:36,240
Speaker 2: I'm applying bindings to religion. Maybe I shouldn't do that,

2461
02:15:36,320 --> 02:15:38,840
Speaker 2: But there are people that are tied to a certain

2462
02:15:38,880 --> 02:15:41,360
Speaker 2: style or type of binding, right, And there's the whole

2463
02:15:41,400 --> 02:15:45,080
Speaker 2: thing of Fundamentally, folks that are skiers see bindings as

2464
02:15:45,120 --> 02:15:48,000
Speaker 2: either retention devices or release devices. Right, a guy like you,

2465
02:15:48,160 --> 02:15:49,120
Speaker 2: maybe it's more retention.

2466
02:15:49,320 --> 02:15:51,400
Speaker 1: Oh, believe me, I've only been hurt with the bindings

2467
02:15:51,440 --> 02:15:52,680
Speaker 1: of released exactly.

2468
02:15:53,040 --> 02:15:54,400
Speaker 2: And I learned that when I was skiing over in

2469
02:15:54,440 --> 02:15:57,520
Speaker 2: Japan with a guy who's really good skier, and he

2470
02:15:57,640 --> 02:15:59,440
Speaker 2: used to take those old Look bindings and take the

2471
02:15:59,520 --> 02:16:01,680
Speaker 2: coil out, take a section of ski pole and put

2472
02:16:01,720 --> 02:16:03,280
Speaker 2: it in there, and says, I just want the ski

2473
02:16:03,440 --> 02:16:07,120
Speaker 2: to stay on my feet. Right, Not that many people

2474
02:16:07,240 --> 02:16:10,440
Speaker 2: think that way. Right Back to bindings in this case,

2475
02:16:10,920 --> 02:16:14,120
Speaker 2: in the absence of a preference, we sell Look. Well,

2476
02:16:14,360 --> 02:16:18,280
Speaker 2: we'll also be selling ATK bindings here shortly and other bindings.

2477
02:16:18,520 --> 02:16:20,400
Speaker 2: So first year out of the gates, yeah, we Look

2478
02:16:20,440 --> 02:16:21,520
Speaker 2: in the absence of a you know.

2479
02:16:21,560 --> 02:16:22,280
Speaker 1: I'm a Look guy.

2480
02:16:22,520 --> 02:16:25,520
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, okay, so I have to ask why Look.

2481
02:16:26,960 --> 02:16:31,720
Speaker 2: Simply put, how they're made. They're very durable. Number two,

2482
02:16:32,440 --> 02:16:35,520
Speaker 2: the Look pivot binding in particular has a small bass

2483
02:16:35,560 --> 02:16:38,240
Speaker 2: plate on the toe, small bass plate on the heel

2484
02:16:38,400 --> 02:16:42,440
Speaker 2: on a relative basis, and because of that it doesn't

2485
02:16:42,480 --> 02:16:45,480
Speaker 2: impinge the flex of the ski as much. Is are

2486
02:16:45,560 --> 02:16:49,480
Speaker 2: two basic answers. It just depends on what folks like.

2487
02:16:49,600 --> 02:16:51,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I buy all those things. I'm a

2488
02:16:51,600 --> 02:16:53,280
Speaker 1: little guy, and a funny thing. Just to go back,

2489
02:16:53,520 --> 02:16:55,560
Speaker 1: I had a switch from Look in the seventies because

2490
02:16:55,560 --> 02:16:59,320
Speaker 1: they didn't have shock absorption forward and backward, which of

2491
02:16:59,360 --> 02:17:01,760
Speaker 1: course they have now Now it's the freestyle of dining.

2492
02:17:01,800 --> 02:17:05,200
Speaker 1: Your true used to be the Solomon. Okay, so let's

2493
02:17:05,240 --> 02:17:08,080
Speaker 1: get into the skis. You sell an eighty eight, sell

2494
02:17:08,120 --> 02:17:09,920
Speaker 1: a ninety eight, sell a one o four, you sell

2495
02:17:09,959 --> 02:17:14,160
Speaker 1: a one ten. Yep, someone comes in also, although you

2496
02:17:14,240 --> 02:17:16,240
Speaker 1: saw a one seventy eight, you have to solo one

2497
02:17:16,360 --> 02:17:18,360
Speaker 1: sixty eight instead of a one to seventy, and you

2498
02:17:18,480 --> 02:17:20,640
Speaker 1: go up to one ninety, which a lot of people don't.

2499
02:17:21,400 --> 02:17:24,360
Speaker 1: Can someone call and say, hey, give me advice which

2500
02:17:24,400 --> 02:17:24,879
Speaker 1: one to buy?

2501
02:17:25,120 --> 02:17:25,280
Speaker 2: Yes?

2502
02:17:26,160 --> 02:17:29,200
Speaker 1: And what are you going to say relative to those skis?

2503
02:17:29,720 --> 02:17:32,120
Speaker 2: First thing we do is go through the good old

2504
02:17:32,240 --> 02:17:35,360
Speaker 2: questions of where do you ski? What are the primary conditions?

2505
02:17:35,800 --> 02:17:37,360
Speaker 2: Give us a mountain, where do you like to ski

2506
02:17:37,480 --> 02:17:39,840
Speaker 2: most of the time? What are the conditions you abhor

2507
02:17:40,200 --> 02:17:42,760
Speaker 2: and avoid? What are the conditions you thrive in, What

2508
02:17:42,879 --> 02:17:47,640
Speaker 2: are the conditions you find yourself in between, background, history, frequency,

2509
02:17:47,879 --> 02:17:50,760
Speaker 2: all those kind of things, and what are the skis

2510
02:17:50,800 --> 02:17:52,840
Speaker 2: you're on? First thing, I do this all the time.

2511
02:17:52,920 --> 02:17:54,879
Speaker 2: We're a small company with twenty one people up there

2512
02:17:54,920 --> 02:17:57,520
Speaker 2: in Bozeman, Montana, where we're headquartered, and I end up

2513
02:17:57,560 --> 02:18:01,280
Speaker 2: on conversations all the time, which I love our perspective

2514
02:18:01,320 --> 02:18:03,600
Speaker 2: customers and a lot of business. What are you skiing

2515
02:18:03,680 --> 02:18:06,160
Speaker 2: on right now? What ski do you dig on? What

2516
02:18:06,240 --> 02:18:09,080
Speaker 2: are the skis do you not like? And that by

2517
02:18:09,120 --> 02:18:12,119
Speaker 2: the time we get through those questions in conversation, it's

2518
02:18:12,160 --> 02:18:14,600
Speaker 2: not like we're telephone what it call them TSRs from

2519
02:18:14,600 --> 02:18:18,360
Speaker 2: the nineties. You know, we're after the scripted kind of

2520
02:18:18,640 --> 02:18:20,920
Speaker 2: flow chart of stuff. It's more just conversation with the

2521
02:18:20,959 --> 02:18:24,680
Speaker 2: folks and we can help figure out pretty quickly what

2522
02:18:24,760 --> 02:18:27,480
Speaker 2: they're looking for in terms of with underfoot and then length.

2523
02:18:28,080 --> 02:18:30,400
Speaker 2: One thing about the peak skis is they tend to

2524
02:18:30,600 --> 02:18:33,280
Speaker 2: It's not just the keyhole, but because the other elements

2525
02:18:33,360 --> 02:18:38,240
Speaker 2: of the geometry absence relative apps and subsidecut comparatively for

2526
02:18:38,360 --> 02:18:40,480
Speaker 2: the kind of turns you can pull off in these

2527
02:18:40,560 --> 02:18:43,720
Speaker 2: deals on these skis, but also the rise on the front.

2528
02:18:43,840 --> 02:18:46,240
Speaker 2: It's not a full rocker, but it's a rise. They

2529
02:18:46,320 --> 02:18:48,960
Speaker 2: tend to ski about four to five centimeters shorter the

2530
02:18:49,040 --> 02:18:52,680
Speaker 2: most conventional skis. I think it's fair to say these

2531
02:18:52,720 --> 02:18:55,720
Speaker 2: are not conventional skis because the key hole and more

2532
02:18:56,879 --> 02:18:59,920
Speaker 2: so we take that into account. But we will get

2533
02:19:00,200 --> 02:19:02,360
Speaker 2: a conversation with folks because we know our skis and

2534
02:19:02,440 --> 02:19:04,360
Speaker 2: we'd like to know more about what they're looking for,

2535
02:19:04,800 --> 02:19:06,240
Speaker 2: and then we match them and we do it with

2536
02:19:06,360 --> 02:19:08,640
Speaker 2: human beings, not with AI, not with bots.

2537
02:19:08,840 --> 02:19:12,000
Speaker 1: Okay, let's go to the strategic initiatives. One is the

2538
02:19:12,480 --> 02:19:16,600
Speaker 1: UH homing device, the location device. Tell us about that.

2539
02:19:18,320 --> 02:19:22,039
Speaker 2: So we had gosh when I got back it before

2540
02:19:22,080 --> 02:19:24,240
Speaker 2: Saudi Arabia, I think it was I was training for

2541
02:19:24,320 --> 02:19:27,280
Speaker 2: Denali and I had gotten up. This is back when

2542
02:19:27,320 --> 02:19:29,040
Speaker 2: I was talking to Bodie doing a whole bunch of

2543
02:19:29,040 --> 02:19:32,520
Speaker 2: different stuff, and I had this has shocked some of

2544
02:19:32,560 --> 02:19:34,880
Speaker 2: my good friends from the business and you maybe I'd

2545
02:19:34,920 --> 02:19:38,040
Speaker 2: skied fifty sixty days but had not ridden a chairlift

2546
02:19:38,080 --> 02:19:40,560
Speaker 2: once because I was training for Denali. A pack on

2547
02:19:40,680 --> 02:19:42,520
Speaker 2: my back, slide on my back, and it's a lot

2548
02:19:42,560 --> 02:19:44,720
Speaker 2: of boun country work. Loved it. I had a wild

2549
02:19:44,760 --> 02:19:48,440
Speaker 2: here one day and Strap literally duct taped some Apple

2550
02:19:48,480 --> 02:19:50,640
Speaker 2: layer tags onto my skis. I just want to see

2551
02:19:50,840 --> 02:19:54,680
Speaker 2: what would happen. Quickly found out the dark sides, the

2552
02:19:54,800 --> 02:19:58,640
Speaker 2: blind spots of the Apple air tag, form factor, limitations,

2553
02:19:58,720 --> 02:20:01,040
Speaker 2: battery life and all that kind of stuff. But then

2554
02:20:01,120 --> 02:20:04,080
Speaker 2: bookmarked that and said, still there's something here right in

2555
02:20:04,200 --> 02:20:08,960
Speaker 2: terms of being able to find your skis come fast forward.

2556
02:20:09,080 --> 02:20:11,600
Speaker 2: So one of the three strategic initiatives prior to our

2557
02:20:11,600 --> 02:20:15,120
Speaker 2: announcement of Peak Locate was technology integration. We think there's

2558
02:20:15,120 --> 02:20:17,480
Speaker 2: a better way to integrate technology in a real way,

2559
02:20:17,760 --> 02:20:20,120
Speaker 2: not just in a whiz bang zippity due to a

2560
02:20:20,640 --> 02:20:23,960
Speaker 2: led light crap way right, true innovation that does stuff.

2561
02:20:24,800 --> 02:20:28,280
Speaker 2: We found a development partner called Pebbleby and they have

2562
02:20:28,320 --> 02:20:32,400
Speaker 2: a unique position in that they have a locating tracking

2563
02:20:32,600 --> 02:20:35,400
Speaker 2: capability that worked with both Apple iOS as well as

2564
02:20:35,480 --> 02:20:39,880
Speaker 2: Android platform Google Android platforms. Unique nobody else can do that.

2565
02:20:41,160 --> 02:20:46,200
Speaker 2: It's also a device that's externally rechargeable. With it in

2566
02:20:46,280 --> 02:20:49,760
Speaker 2: the Apple world is the Apple mag Say technology. It's

2567
02:20:49,760 --> 02:20:55,000
Speaker 2: called technically a g charger and the battery life is

2568
02:20:55,200 --> 02:20:58,000
Speaker 2: three months right out of gates. There's more to it,

2569
02:20:58,160 --> 02:21:00,880
Speaker 2: but then we were able to work with us and

2570
02:21:00,920 --> 02:21:03,640
Speaker 2: customize in the form factor, make it very small, very thin.

2571
02:21:03,720 --> 02:21:07,240
Speaker 2: It's roughly gosh. I think it's a neighborhood of eight

2572
02:21:08,200 --> 02:21:13,640
Speaker 2: millimeters by eleven millimeters and about the thickness of a

2573
02:21:13,680 --> 02:21:17,959
Speaker 2: credit card. And last three months worked with both platforms

2574
02:21:18,640 --> 02:21:22,120
Speaker 2: and so in externally rechargeable. So we announced this in

2575
02:21:22,280 --> 02:21:26,440
Speaker 2: March of this last year this year, excuse me. And

2576
02:21:26,520 --> 02:21:29,080
Speaker 2: we're working on integrating against all of our skis for

2577
02:21:29,160 --> 02:21:32,080
Speaker 2: twenty four to twenty five. And it's basically a tracking

2578
02:21:32,200 --> 02:21:35,960
Speaker 2: locating device and Simplicity does simple stuff really well. And

2579
02:21:36,080 --> 02:21:37,920
Speaker 2: I would argue the following I learned from the ski

2580
02:21:38,000 --> 02:21:40,920
Speaker 2: resort side of things. The spectrum of people that are

2581
02:21:40,959 --> 02:21:43,280
Speaker 2: skiers in the US A good pick on the US

2582
02:21:43,879 --> 02:21:47,680
Speaker 2: you have and Epic is a good example. Epic Mix.

2583
02:21:47,840 --> 02:21:50,880
Speaker 2: Remember when Bail came out with Epic Mix. A lot

2584
02:21:50,959 --> 02:21:53,760
Speaker 2: of folks still use that, but there's initial adopters that

2585
02:21:53,840 --> 02:21:57,960
Speaker 2: were kind of very technically tech oriented. They have used it,

2586
02:21:58,200 --> 02:22:00,600
Speaker 2: continue to use it right out of the well. Those

2587
02:22:00,640 --> 02:22:03,360
Speaker 2: people don't know these track your vertical, your runs, et cetera.

2588
02:22:03,920 --> 02:22:08,840
Speaker 2: Very technology tech oriented to say the least. And then

2589
02:22:08,879 --> 02:22:11,560
Speaker 2: the other end of spectrum is leave my ski experience alone.

2590
02:22:12,400 --> 02:22:14,520
Speaker 2: I don't want any technology. I just want to freaking

2591
02:22:14,600 --> 02:22:19,200
Speaker 2: ski right. And then the vast majority of American skiers

2592
02:22:19,240 --> 02:22:22,440
Speaker 2: are in between. And I equate it to four wheel drive.

2593
02:22:23,000 --> 02:22:24,640
Speaker 2: I live in the mountains, and I use my four

2594
02:22:24,680 --> 02:22:27,360
Speaker 2: wheel drive on when I have to, maybe fifteen to

2595
02:22:27,440 --> 02:22:29,520
Speaker 2: twenty percent of every day every year. But when I

2596
02:22:29,640 --> 02:22:33,320
Speaker 2: need it. I really need it, right. This device is

2597
02:22:33,400 --> 02:22:36,440
Speaker 2: really simple, it's elegant. If you're you don't want technology

2598
02:22:36,480 --> 02:22:39,480
Speaker 2: invading your ski experience, great, don't use it if you

2599
02:22:39,680 --> 02:22:41,720
Speaker 2: If you're a techie guy, you want to know it here.

2600
02:22:41,760 --> 02:22:43,280
Speaker 2: You can light it up all day long, but it

2601
02:22:43,360 --> 02:22:45,400
Speaker 2: goes as a device that goes underneath the top sheet,

2602
02:22:45,440 --> 02:22:48,280
Speaker 2: so you can't see it. And for the vast majority

2603
02:22:48,280 --> 02:22:50,440
Speaker 2: of people that want to locate their skis in deep snow,

2604
02:22:51,920 --> 02:22:54,600
Speaker 2: they are at fail and there's three thousand pairs of

2605
02:22:54,600 --> 02:22:56,440
Speaker 2: skis outside the lodge and they can't remember where they

2606
02:22:56,440 --> 02:22:59,959
Speaker 2: put them. It is a device that is a theft

2607
02:23:00,240 --> 02:23:03,800
Speaker 2: deterrent right because hard to defeed it without ruining the ski.

2608
02:23:04,840 --> 02:23:07,959
Speaker 2: It's also tracking locating device from traveling. So it's a simple,

2609
02:23:08,640 --> 02:23:11,680
Speaker 2: straightforward ability, a deal that works with Apple find My

2610
02:23:11,800 --> 02:23:13,000
Speaker 2: as well as androids.

2611
02:23:13,040 --> 02:23:14,400
Speaker 1: Okay, just a little bit slower.

2612
02:23:14,680 --> 02:23:14,960
Speaker 2: Sorry.

2613
02:23:15,320 --> 02:23:19,120
Speaker 1: Find My works on Wi Fi and then every other

2614
02:23:19,320 --> 02:23:21,880
Speaker 1: phone in the area. Yeah, it doesn't work with Wi Fi.

2615
02:23:21,959 --> 02:23:26,160
Speaker 1: But yeah, okay, if I'm in deep powder and I

2616
02:23:26,280 --> 02:23:29,480
Speaker 1: lose my ski, there might not be any other phones there.

2617
02:23:29,480 --> 02:23:31,240
Speaker 1: How's it going to find my ski with?

2618
02:23:31,680 --> 02:23:34,480
Speaker 2: We have combination Bluetooth and NFC nearfield.

2619
02:23:34,920 --> 02:23:35,960
Speaker 1: And what's the range of that.

2620
02:23:36,800 --> 02:23:39,039
Speaker 2: We've tested it at forty meters we put a ski

2621
02:23:39,120 --> 02:23:43,560
Speaker 2: forty meters. Yeah, we put a ski in January forty

2622
02:23:43,600 --> 02:23:46,360
Speaker 2: meters away and one meter deep snow, so called three

2623
02:23:46,440 --> 02:23:50,520
Speaker 2: feet deep in snow forty meters away, a little bit

2624
02:23:50,760 --> 02:23:52,640
Speaker 2: you know, call it, you know, forty yards away one

2625
02:23:52,680 --> 02:23:56,160
Speaker 2: hundred twenty feet. Found the ski within about thirty eight seconds.

2626
02:23:56,680 --> 02:24:01,760
Speaker 1: Okay. Two questions. One, Hey, the tracking device is not

2627
02:24:02,000 --> 02:24:05,720
Speaker 1: in this year's skis correct? Is this a business? Is

2628
02:24:05,800 --> 02:24:08,199
Speaker 1: this something you're going to license to other companies?

2629
02:24:08,440 --> 02:24:08,640
Speaker 2: Yes?

2630
02:24:10,200 --> 02:24:13,480
Speaker 1: What are the barriers to entry for competitors?

2631
02:24:16,120 --> 02:24:19,840
Speaker 2: On the pure technology side, competitors of a very very

2632
02:24:19,879 --> 02:24:22,720
Speaker 2: difficult time finding somebody who can develop this technology that

2633
02:24:22,800 --> 02:24:26,640
Speaker 2: works with both Apple and Android. The relevance of that

2634
02:24:26,920 --> 02:24:30,040
Speaker 2: is the US, sixty four percent of Americans use Apple

2635
02:24:30,080 --> 02:24:34,560
Speaker 2: iOS largely, the balance use Google Android. Those metrics almost

2636
02:24:34,640 --> 02:24:38,560
Speaker 2: perfectly invert for Europe, where Google androids the dominant platform.

2637
02:24:38,600 --> 02:24:41,520
Speaker 2: I think it's at sixty two percent last year, and

2638
02:24:41,600 --> 02:24:44,640
Speaker 2: the balance are Apple iOS. They'll a very difficult time

2639
02:24:44,720 --> 02:24:48,000
Speaker 2: finding somebody can make this kind of technology work with

2640
02:24:48,160 --> 02:24:52,760
Speaker 2: both platforms and have a device that is externally rechargeable.

2641
02:24:53,080 --> 02:24:56,160
Speaker 2: So those are the primary technology barriers to entry, and

2642
02:24:56,320 --> 02:25:01,160
Speaker 2: that's we have some exceptional IP attorneys. One guy, our

2643
02:25:01,280 --> 02:25:04,840
Speaker 2: primary IP attorney, worked with a little technology company in

2644
02:25:05,480 --> 02:25:08,879
Speaker 2: Coup Patino called Apple for sixteen years. He knows stuff,

2645
02:25:09,520 --> 02:25:13,440
Speaker 2: and so we have a exclusivity in this sector globally

2646
02:25:14,000 --> 02:25:16,199
Speaker 2: for this device that does all everything I just mentioned.

2647
02:25:16,520 --> 02:25:21,240
Speaker 1: Okay, let's switch to materials. Yeah, I've lived long enough

2648
02:25:21,360 --> 02:25:24,320
Speaker 1: to go. When they took the metal out of the skis,

2649
02:25:24,800 --> 02:25:26,840
Speaker 1: then they went to foam cores, then they put the

2650
02:25:26,879 --> 02:25:29,760
Speaker 1: metal back in. Dina Stars now putting a foam stringer

2651
02:25:29,840 --> 02:25:33,920
Speaker 1: for in their skis. Yeah, and you talk about something

2652
02:25:34,440 --> 02:25:37,359
Speaker 1: that's a new material. You were talking about titanyl earlier.

2653
02:25:37,800 --> 02:25:39,519
Speaker 1: Tell me about this new material.

2654
02:25:39,800 --> 02:25:42,280
Speaker 2: Sure, titanol. I made reference to it twice so far.

2655
02:25:42,400 --> 02:25:46,360
Speaker 2: But Tino I had personally and ski resorts bought skis

2656
02:25:46,360 --> 02:25:48,960
Speaker 2: since nineteen ninety two that had the name of the

2657
02:25:49,000 --> 02:25:52,000
Speaker 2: ski in ti or titanium. And I didn't find out

2658
02:25:52,080 --> 02:25:54,039
Speaker 2: until about two years ago that titinol is less than

2659
02:25:54,080 --> 02:25:56,959
Speaker 2: one point two percent titanium in it, right, I think

2660
02:25:57,040 --> 02:25:59,039
Speaker 2: that's I think that's deceptive.

2661
02:25:59,440 --> 02:26:01,520
Speaker 1: Oh, it's I already deceptive.

2662
02:26:01,640 --> 02:26:05,199
Speaker 2: And I'm like, uh so, hey, look we're guys carbon

2663
02:26:05,280 --> 02:26:09,120
Speaker 2: fiber and titanium and must be good. Right, that's bullshit.

2664
02:26:09,400 --> 02:26:11,000
Speaker 2: I mean, let's just call it like it is. That's bullshit.

2665
02:26:11,080 --> 02:26:13,360
Speaker 1: Mean college, especially now that Apple is selling a phone

2666
02:26:13,400 --> 02:26:18,199
Speaker 1: with titanium exterior. It it implies that these skis have titanium,

2667
02:26:18,320 --> 02:26:19,039
Speaker 1: which they don't.

2668
02:26:19,360 --> 02:26:21,640
Speaker 2: They don't. It's an elementum alloy made by a group

2669
02:26:21,680 --> 02:26:24,720
Speaker 2: in Austria. MG walcked it down ninety two, and since

2670
02:26:24,800 --> 02:26:29,119
Speaker 2: ninety two we've been seeing that, right right. I didn't

2671
02:26:29,160 --> 02:26:31,000
Speaker 2: know that until a year and a half could fell.

2672
02:26:31,040 --> 02:26:32,400
Speaker 2: I'm gonna say it was a sucker, but I was like,

2673
02:26:32,560 --> 02:26:34,840
Speaker 2: I kind of believed it. When I saw TI and titanium.

2674
02:26:34,920 --> 02:26:38,520
Speaker 2: I was like, that's not true. That's really not true.

2675
02:26:38,680 --> 02:26:44,680
Speaker 2: And so relative of the materials switching gears, I also

2676
02:26:44,720 --> 02:26:47,600
Speaker 2: came to find out and understand that carbon fiber has

2677
02:26:47,640 --> 02:26:50,200
Speaker 2: been to use in many skis and is a less

2678
02:26:50,240 --> 02:26:53,520
Speaker 2: than desirable material. Now I did know that, but I

2679
02:26:53,600 --> 02:26:55,800
Speaker 2: didn't know the way I do by way of body.

2680
02:26:56,400 --> 02:26:59,240
Speaker 2: And that is because fundamentally, without getting too deep into

2681
02:26:59,320 --> 02:27:03,520
Speaker 2: my modern level of engineering and physics understanding, is how

2682
02:27:03,520 --> 02:27:07,280
Speaker 2: it receives energy and returns energy is very spiky. So

2683
02:27:07,360 --> 02:27:10,360
Speaker 2: you've been on skis that have a substantial amount of

2684
02:27:10,360 --> 02:27:14,320
Speaker 2: carbon fibers. Somehow in this construction they receive energy and

2685
02:27:14,400 --> 02:27:16,640
Speaker 2: returns energy in a way that for a skier like

2686
02:27:16,720 --> 02:27:20,600
Speaker 2: you would be probably not very desirable. Chattery. You can

2687
02:27:20,760 --> 02:27:22,879
Speaker 2: got lots of different descriptions, but it doesn't work well,

2688
02:27:23,120 --> 02:27:27,480
Speaker 2: but it achieves the outcome desired the people making the

2689
02:27:27,520 --> 02:27:32,480
Speaker 2: ski light and stiff, but doesn't theoretically.

2690
02:27:31,920 --> 02:27:34,720
Speaker 1: They charge more for a carbon fiber ski. Is carbon

2691
02:27:34,800 --> 02:27:35,480
Speaker 1: more expensive?

2692
02:27:35,920 --> 02:27:40,640
Speaker 2: No, it depends on the braiding, It depends on all

2693
02:27:40,840 --> 02:27:44,000
Speaker 2: kinds of stuff. But I'm not saying it's bad because

2694
02:27:44,120 --> 02:27:47,440
Speaker 2: in some skis you're getting what you want, which is light, stiff,

2695
02:27:47,480 --> 02:27:50,760
Speaker 2: and you're not necessarily looking for performance on a turn right,

2696
02:27:52,240 --> 02:27:55,760
Speaker 2: backcountry touring, all kinds of side country stuff. You want

2697
02:27:55,800 --> 02:28:00,120
Speaker 2: skis that are primarily lightweight, right and stiff ish. But

2698
02:28:00,440 --> 02:28:03,520
Speaker 2: this trait and characteristic carbon fiber and how it sieves

2699
02:28:03,680 --> 02:28:06,039
Speaker 2: turns energy is a absolute core part in the pun

2700
02:28:07,000 --> 02:28:09,280
Speaker 2: of what we're talking about. So in describing this to

2701
02:28:09,360 --> 02:28:12,959
Speaker 2: this group we're working within. Their clients include the Department

2702
02:28:13,000 --> 02:28:17,640
Speaker 2: of Defense, NASA, Boeing. They're working with Amazon on the

2703
02:28:18,720 --> 02:28:22,760
Speaker 2: Blue Origin space shuttle. The we're small ski industry is

2704
02:28:23,000 --> 02:28:25,760
Speaker 2: really small compared to what they're taking on, but we've

2705
02:28:25,800 --> 02:28:27,920
Speaker 2: been able to work our way in and we're working

2706
02:28:27,959 --> 02:28:31,640
Speaker 2: with this group at the molecular level to develop. As

2707
02:28:32,160 --> 02:28:36,760
Speaker 2: the mag group did in Austria developed Titanle, we're working

2708
02:28:36,879 --> 02:28:40,360
Speaker 2: at the molecular molecular level developing our own thermoplastic that

2709
02:28:40,520 --> 02:28:43,240
Speaker 2: has a tracing characteristics that we desire, which is to

2710
02:28:43,360 --> 02:28:46,320
Speaker 2: receive and return energy in a fashion more similar to

2711
02:28:46,400 --> 02:28:48,800
Speaker 2: what we know to be wood rite, a more smooth

2712
02:28:49,040 --> 02:28:52,000
Speaker 2: distribution curve of energy return, but we still want to

2713
02:28:52,000 --> 02:28:55,000
Speaker 2: get the lightness and stiffness out of the material. So

2714
02:28:55,320 --> 02:28:58,560
Speaker 2: we're at the early stages, incipient stages of that work

2715
02:28:59,240 --> 02:29:01,920
Speaker 2: and very encouraging what we're doing right now. But I

2716
02:29:02,040 --> 02:29:04,520
Speaker 2: emphasize we're not looking at a different type of braiding

2717
02:29:04,560 --> 02:29:08,000
Speaker 2: of carbon fiber. We're literally starting at the molecular level

2718
02:29:08,040 --> 02:29:09,400
Speaker 2: of developing our own thermopas.

2719
02:29:09,400 --> 02:29:12,960
Speaker 1: Okay, so this is also something that you as you

2720
02:29:13,080 --> 02:29:17,440
Speaker 1: reference Titanel on the group overseas, that you would like

2721
02:29:17,560 --> 02:29:20,280
Speaker 1: to see this as a standard throughout the industry, and

2722
02:29:20,400 --> 02:29:22,040
Speaker 1: therefore it's profit potential.

2723
02:29:22,320 --> 02:29:25,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, so much the same. You asked the question straight

2724
02:29:25,959 --> 02:29:30,560
Speaker 2: up with peak Locate. We're going to We've already we're

2725
02:29:30,560 --> 02:29:34,160
Speaker 2: already waist deep in discussion of use of licensing Peak

2726
02:29:34,200 --> 02:29:37,240
Speaker 2: Locate to other manufacturers, many of whom you've already mentioned

2727
02:29:37,320 --> 02:29:41,560
Speaker 2: on your show or on this podcast with we're not

2728
02:29:41,640 --> 02:29:44,119
Speaker 2: nearly as far down the path with the materials we're

2729
02:29:44,120 --> 02:29:47,520
Speaker 2: developing the thermoplastics, but be fair to say that we

2730
02:29:47,560 --> 02:29:52,120
Speaker 2: anticipate developing this material and being in probably a similar

2731
02:29:52,160 --> 02:29:55,880
Speaker 2: situation as MG has been to Titanol, and licensing it

2732
02:29:55,959 --> 02:29:56,880
Speaker 2: to other manufacturers.

2733
02:29:57,280 --> 02:30:00,800
Speaker 1: Okay, the third component of your strategic indition is the

2734
02:30:00,920 --> 02:30:06,920
Speaker 1: actual manufacturing process. Presently, skis are pressed. If anyone has

2735
02:30:06,959 --> 02:30:09,400
Speaker 1: seen the video, and it's funny because they have how

2736
02:30:09,480 --> 02:30:13,600
Speaker 1: you make this video. These are essentially made by end

2737
02:30:14,040 --> 02:30:17,520
Speaker 1: to this day, and it's the aquatic of drills light

2738
02:30:17,640 --> 02:30:20,080
Speaker 1: years better than it used to be. But anybody who's

2739
02:30:20,120 --> 02:30:21,920
Speaker 1: really into knows that every pair of ski is going

2740
02:30:21,959 --> 02:30:25,360
Speaker 1: to ski a little bit differently. So tell us about

2741
02:30:25,440 --> 02:30:27,440
Speaker 1: your manufacturing.

2742
02:30:26,680 --> 02:30:29,720
Speaker 2: Initiative again, stuff I didn't know until two years ago.

2743
02:30:30,760 --> 02:30:34,480
Speaker 2: Ska presses are basically a Panini maker, right, you have

2744
02:30:34,640 --> 02:30:37,560
Speaker 2: a form, you have a mold, layers that have been

2745
02:30:37,600 --> 02:30:40,880
Speaker 2: specified designed, all that kind of stuff go into this

2746
02:30:41,040 --> 02:30:44,199
Speaker 2: large machine. We have one of them in Montana laying

2747
02:30:44,240 --> 02:30:46,600
Speaker 2: zwn skip Press, the best one on the planet and

2748
02:30:47,000 --> 02:30:49,840
Speaker 2: basically a bit of pressure or a bit of heat,

2749
02:30:49,879 --> 02:30:52,880
Speaker 2: not a ton of pressure in a very specifically oriented way.

2750
02:30:53,480 --> 02:30:56,640
Speaker 2: Takes a sandwich construction which involves a pockey's glues, resins,

2751
02:30:56,680 --> 02:31:00,200
Speaker 2: some heat and this impresses it pull them out your

2752
02:31:00,280 --> 02:31:03,920
Speaker 2: points well made. Every pair of skis is handmade. They

2753
02:31:04,040 --> 02:31:05,320
Speaker 2: just are made too through them.

2754
02:31:05,360 --> 02:31:08,040
Speaker 1: I mean literally they personally got they lay the fiberglass.

2755
02:31:08,200 --> 02:31:13,280
Speaker 2: Yes, incredible, it's it's actually the equivalent if you know

2756
02:31:13,360 --> 02:31:15,920
Speaker 2: what a mimeograph machine is. But it would be as

2757
02:31:16,000 --> 02:31:18,240
Speaker 2: if the laser printer had yet to be made and

2758
02:31:18,320 --> 02:31:21,160
Speaker 2: we were still using mimiograph machines. That is what a

2759
02:31:21,200 --> 02:31:21,880
Speaker 2: ski press is.

2760
02:31:22,280 --> 02:31:22,480
Speaker 1: Verse.

2761
02:31:23,560 --> 02:31:25,840
Speaker 2: But if you attach a computer the mimeograph machine, it's

2762
02:31:25,840 --> 02:31:29,800
Speaker 2: still a mimeograph machine. Right. Get a point. So body

2763
02:31:30,120 --> 02:31:35,240
Speaker 2: has some contacts in public Germany group called Beeler BI

2764
02:31:35,600 --> 02:31:37,080
Speaker 2: H l E R. And they have nothing to do

2765
02:31:37,120 --> 02:31:40,400
Speaker 2: with ski business and their clients include Mercedes, benz Bosch

2766
02:31:40,480 --> 02:31:45,080
Speaker 2: and others. They are exceptionally good at fully automated, high precision,

2767
02:31:46,120 --> 02:31:53,160
Speaker 2: multi material elements coming into a machinery process. To automate

2768
02:31:53,240 --> 02:31:56,760
Speaker 2: skis in manufacturing, basically take us out of the mimiograph

2769
02:31:56,800 --> 02:31:59,720
Speaker 2: era and do what maybe the Healtt Packard group did

2770
02:32:00,240 --> 02:32:04,240
Speaker 2: developed laser printer. We're well down the path on that

2771
02:32:04,400 --> 02:32:07,240
Speaker 2: working with this group, and be fair to we call

2772
02:32:07,320 --> 02:32:10,760
Speaker 2: it Project Treadstone because it's I thought that was kind

2773
02:32:10,760 --> 02:32:13,640
Speaker 2: of a funny reference. Obviously, with the absence of your smiling,

2774
02:32:13,720 --> 02:32:15,640
Speaker 2: it wasn't funny enough. Maybe you can help me owe

2775
02:32:15,640 --> 02:32:18,840
Speaker 2: a new name. But we're getting pretty far down the

2776
02:32:18,879 --> 02:32:21,879
Speaker 2: path to basically re engineer the entire process by which

2777
02:32:21,879 --> 02:32:24,800
Speaker 2: skis are made, and it has to do with materials

2778
02:32:24,879 --> 02:32:28,160
Speaker 2: coming in, the components, how they come together and come out.

2779
02:32:28,280 --> 02:32:31,280
Speaker 2: The other elements are probably not It's not going to

2780
02:32:31,360 --> 02:32:35,160
Speaker 2: look much in a year to maybe nine months to

2781
02:32:35,160 --> 02:32:36,880
Speaker 2: twelve months from now. We'll help a prototype over in

2782
02:32:36,959 --> 02:32:39,760
Speaker 2: Germany and be fair to say that it won't look

2783
02:32:39,760 --> 02:32:41,520
Speaker 2: anything like how skis are made today.

2784
02:32:42,400 --> 02:32:45,199
Speaker 1: And that would also theoretically be a business. You would

2785
02:32:45,240 --> 02:32:47,400
Speaker 1: sell that to other manufacturers.

2786
02:32:46,760 --> 02:32:48,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, we would, We would see ourselves.

2787
02:32:48,600 --> 02:32:53,000
Speaker 1: Okay, now, these three strategic initiatives. Were they there at

2788
02:32:53,040 --> 02:32:55,600
Speaker 1: the advent where you started to make skis and you

2789
02:32:55,720 --> 02:32:56,880
Speaker 1: came up with this other stuff?

2790
02:32:57,360 --> 02:33:00,560
Speaker 2: They were, But today we have a much clearer line

2791
02:33:00,600 --> 02:33:01,760
Speaker 2: of sight than we did a year and a half

2792
02:33:01,800 --> 02:33:04,960
Speaker 2: ago on all three of them, because we've advanced. On

2793
02:33:04,959 --> 02:33:06,920
Speaker 2: the same time, we were standing up the business in

2794
02:33:07,000 --> 02:33:09,920
Speaker 2: a very fast moving basis, launching it going meaning peak

2795
02:33:09,959 --> 02:33:15,280
Speaker 2: skis and getting in the marketplace. But then we really

2796
02:33:15,840 --> 02:33:18,360
Speaker 2: started going pedal down on these with this great team member.

2797
02:33:18,440 --> 02:33:20,360
Speaker 2: We have a guy named Darren Hougan who's our chief

2798
02:33:20,400 --> 02:33:23,360
Speaker 2: product officer in engineer, brilliant guy. We're boeing for a

2799
02:33:23,400 --> 02:33:26,000
Speaker 2: little bit. Master's and engineering work with K two for

2800
02:33:26,120 --> 02:33:29,080
Speaker 2: quite a while. You knows skiing. He's a passionate skier,

2801
02:33:29,200 --> 02:33:30,880
Speaker 2: mountain guy, used to be a ski patroller for a

2802
02:33:30,920 --> 02:33:34,600
Speaker 2: big sky. He gets it and putting body together with Darren,

2803
02:33:34,879 --> 02:33:40,640
Speaker 2: it's great, it's fantastic. I'll drop something on here in

2804
02:33:40,680 --> 02:33:43,120
Speaker 2: a second new ski. It'll be a scoop if you will.

2805
02:33:43,920 --> 02:33:47,920
Speaker 2: We're probably gonna launch in late October seventy eight Underfoot

2806
02:33:48,640 --> 02:33:52,800
Speaker 2: for the European market and also the US skier primarily

2807
02:33:53,320 --> 02:33:58,120
Speaker 2: East Coastkier that wants narrow underfoot ski. But Darren's been

2808
02:33:58,280 --> 02:34:01,040
Speaker 2: really critical on advancing these initials, including the work with

2809
02:34:01,160 --> 02:34:04,720
Speaker 2: Bealer and this engineering process. I have to make mention

2810
02:34:05,360 --> 02:34:08,080
Speaker 2: that the reliance on glues, residents and epoxyes on this

2811
02:34:08,480 --> 02:34:14,119
Speaker 2: current process skis when they get retired, where do they go? Right?

2812
02:34:14,400 --> 02:34:17,400
Speaker 2: And not as bad as lithium ion batteries, But if

2813
02:34:17,400 --> 02:34:22,800
Speaker 2: they don't become atirontic chairs or fences around some people's backyards,

2814
02:34:23,200 --> 02:34:25,520
Speaker 2: they end up in a dump and those gluz residents

2815
02:34:25,560 --> 02:34:28,080
Speaker 2: and epoxyas are not good for the environment. In our case.

2816
02:34:28,200 --> 02:34:31,400
Speaker 2: One of the five primary development criteria include the same

2817
02:34:31,600 --> 02:34:35,000
Speaker 2: process by which we make the skis, the same materials

2818
02:34:35,040 --> 02:34:38,840
Speaker 2: of processes by we're able to deconstruct those exact skis

2819
02:34:38,959 --> 02:34:41,560
Speaker 2: after they're retired and retask those materials.

2820
02:34:42,160 --> 02:34:44,960
Speaker 1: What do you think of the rosi recyclable ski?

2821
02:34:45,400 --> 02:34:49,320
Speaker 2: Good stuff? More the better? Okay, great, great stuff, a

2822
02:34:49,400 --> 02:34:52,039
Speaker 2: brilliant minds good stuff. This is different.

2823
02:34:52,520 --> 02:34:55,119
Speaker 1: Who actually makes peak skis.

2824
02:34:56,480 --> 02:34:59,880
Speaker 2: Right now? It's a lawn outside of Bluebliana and Slovenia.

2825
02:35:02,440 --> 02:35:05,680
Speaker 2: We might be diversifying our manufacturing sources going.

2826
02:35:05,560 --> 02:35:09,199
Speaker 1: Forward, diversifying meaning multiple manufacturers.

2827
02:35:09,320 --> 02:35:12,360
Speaker 2: Yes, what would be The reason to do that d

2828
02:35:12,560 --> 02:35:17,160
Speaker 2: risk any business when you have a single source supplier

2829
02:35:17,400 --> 02:35:20,720
Speaker 2: or a single point of failure. You know, Fisher had

2830
02:35:20,760 --> 02:35:22,600
Speaker 2: a factory burned down was about two and a half

2831
02:35:22,640 --> 02:35:25,840
Speaker 2: three years ago. We don't have a single point of

2832
02:35:25,920 --> 02:35:29,519
Speaker 2: failure if for some reason something were to happen in Liviana.

2833
02:35:29,800 --> 02:35:32,040
Speaker 2: Elon we have a single point of existence right now

2834
02:35:32,280 --> 02:35:35,600
Speaker 2: until we get Treadstone built. I don't want to come

2835
02:35:35,640 --> 02:35:38,600
Speaker 2: back to treadchtone in a second, but yeah, right now,

2836
02:35:38,640 --> 02:35:40,000
Speaker 2: it's guys in Slovenia.

2837
02:35:40,560 --> 02:35:45,400
Speaker 1: Okay, they're making the skis, but they're also in the

2838
02:35:45,480 --> 02:35:48,959
Speaker 1: business themselves. Yeah, what is their incentives to do as

2839
02:35:49,000 --> 02:35:51,240
Speaker 1: well for you? And you actually have someone on site

2840
02:35:51,280 --> 02:35:52,240
Speaker 1: when the skis are made.

2841
02:35:53,480 --> 02:35:57,359
Speaker 2: So they have these huge factories. Their incentive is basically

2842
02:35:57,480 --> 02:36:02,760
Speaker 2: they have production capability. I can't speak on their behalf,

2843
02:36:02,840 --> 02:36:05,000
Speaker 2: but if I'm the CEO of Elon and other companies

2844
02:36:05,040 --> 02:36:07,760
Speaker 2: that do this, including Fisher and Kessley and others, many

2845
02:36:07,879 --> 02:36:10,160
Speaker 2: do it, oem white label, whatever you want to call it.

2846
02:36:11,200 --> 02:36:15,840
Speaker 2: They have capacity and their production facilities and they feasibly

2847
02:36:16,000 --> 02:36:18,199
Speaker 2: or theoretically hit their head on the ceiling of demand

2848
02:36:18,280 --> 02:36:21,760
Speaker 2: for their brand and their products. So they use capacity

2849
02:36:21,840 --> 02:36:26,279
Speaker 2: and we buy skis from them. Very common Black Crows

2850
02:36:26,920 --> 02:36:29,880
Speaker 2: make their skis at Elan. There's fact to do these

2851
02:36:29,959 --> 02:36:34,000
Speaker 2: factory tours with all the manufacturers. I'm just amazed how

2852
02:36:34,040 --> 02:36:36,080
Speaker 2: many skis. I thought, Wow, I never even thought about

2853
02:36:36,120 --> 02:36:38,600
Speaker 2: who makes their skis, But they're made here. So it's

2854
02:36:38,800 --> 02:36:41,640
Speaker 2: the vast majority of skis that you know of are

2855
02:36:41,920 --> 02:36:43,800
Speaker 2: made by these big factories.

2856
02:36:44,240 --> 02:36:47,080
Speaker 1: Okay, so last year in the middle of the season,

2857
02:36:47,760 --> 02:36:50,240
Speaker 1: there were incentives early, like you buy the skis, you

2858
02:36:50,280 --> 02:36:52,320
Speaker 1: get a pair of binding something like that. But you

2859
02:36:52,520 --> 02:36:55,640
Speaker 1: got to the point where you got two pairs of

2860
02:36:55,800 --> 02:36:58,680
Speaker 1: skis for price of one.

2861
02:36:59,120 --> 02:36:59,320
Speaker 2: Yeah.

2862
02:36:59,440 --> 02:37:03,959
Speaker 1: However, one words that it appears to be a sale,

2863
02:37:05,000 --> 02:37:08,360
Speaker 1: and it makes many people might say, well, why should

2864
02:37:08,400 --> 02:37:12,680
Speaker 1: I pay full price now, because I'll wait for them

2865
02:37:12,800 --> 02:37:13,920
Speaker 1: to go on discount.

2866
02:37:14,000 --> 02:37:14,120
Speaker 2: Now.

2867
02:37:14,200 --> 02:37:18,000
Speaker 1: There are certainly companies rolex at a lot of if

2868
02:37:18,040 --> 02:37:21,000
Speaker 1: they have excess inventory, they bring it back, they destroy

2869
02:37:21,120 --> 02:37:23,600
Speaker 1: it because they don't want to lower the value. What

2870
02:37:23,840 --> 02:37:26,080
Speaker 1: was the thinking and why should I trust the price

2871
02:37:26,200 --> 02:37:26,840
Speaker 1: going forward?

2872
02:37:27,240 --> 02:37:32,320
Speaker 2: Straight up? Or finished with the consumer view of get

2873
02:37:32,400 --> 02:37:36,840
Speaker 2: that at times ten the simple nature of things. We

2874
02:37:36,959 --> 02:37:39,080
Speaker 2: launched company in April. First batch of skis come in

2875
02:37:39,160 --> 02:37:41,000
Speaker 2: and they come in in different Transas throughout the fall,

2876
02:37:41,600 --> 02:37:43,880
Speaker 2: and some of those transfers, some batches of skis were

2877
02:37:43,920 --> 02:37:46,960
Speaker 2: pretty late, so we were not We weren't fully i

2878
02:37:47,000 --> 02:37:50,680
Speaker 2: would say inventoried until mid to late November early December.

2879
02:37:50,879 --> 02:37:55,360
Speaker 2: Number one. Number two, we're brand new and as much

2880
02:37:55,879 --> 02:37:59,880
Speaker 2: credibility and impact as body Miller's name has. It's a

2881
02:38:00,240 --> 02:38:04,760
Speaker 2: brand new ski and a market full of traditionalists skeptics,

2882
02:38:04,920 --> 02:38:10,720
Speaker 2: understandably skeptics, and so yeah, we did not have as

2883
02:38:10,800 --> 02:38:13,320
Speaker 2: much pickup and traction and demand as we thought we

2884
02:38:13,360 --> 02:38:17,119
Speaker 2: would in the September through November December timeframe. We turned

2885
02:38:17,160 --> 02:38:20,720
Speaker 2: the corner on New Year's and so set that aside.

2886
02:38:21,520 --> 02:38:23,720
Speaker 2: We're also a direct to consumer eCOM company. We have

2887
02:38:23,879 --> 02:38:27,160
Speaker 2: some excellent strategists and tech. I have this Chief Marketing

2888
02:38:27,200 --> 02:38:30,560
Speaker 2: Officer or I caller, our digital marketing assassin. So we

2889
02:38:30,680 --> 02:38:34,160
Speaker 2: do a lot of testing. And our industry is small enough.

2890
02:38:34,200 --> 02:38:38,480
Speaker 2: It's not like anhyder or cold companies or beer companies

2891
02:38:38,520 --> 02:38:41,360
Speaker 2: have big enough market to go test demand at price

2892
02:38:41,400 --> 02:38:43,800
Speaker 2: points and those kinds of things. We don't have that luxury.

2893
02:38:44,520 --> 02:38:47,000
Speaker 2: So in this case we're doing recon as much as

2894
02:38:47,040 --> 02:38:52,840
Speaker 2: anything to see what bundles, what offers move right. We've

2895
02:38:52,879 --> 02:38:56,800
Speaker 2: done a lot of that, binding ski bundles, multiple bundles,

2896
02:38:56,920 --> 02:38:58,640
Speaker 2: a lot of it's testing, and yeah, a lot of

2897
02:38:58,680 --> 02:39:01,280
Speaker 2: it's to sell. This case, the two for one we

2898
02:39:01,440 --> 02:39:03,720
Speaker 2: ran for ten days. I think it was in January,

2899
02:39:04,440 --> 02:39:06,880
Speaker 2: and unlikely we will go back to that, but we

2900
02:39:07,000 --> 02:39:10,360
Speaker 2: learned a lot through that process. Well to learn Number one,

2901
02:39:11,720 --> 02:39:13,440
Speaker 2: I was called by a couple of friends saying, whoa

2902
02:39:13,560 --> 02:39:15,120
Speaker 2: you guys desperate in a tough spot?

2903
02:39:15,240 --> 02:39:15,360
Speaker 1: Is it?

2904
02:39:16,040 --> 02:39:18,400
Speaker 2: No, we're testing and we're moving out product. It's year

2905
02:39:18,480 --> 02:39:19,520
Speaker 2: one doing okay.

2906
02:39:19,680 --> 02:39:19,720
Speaker 1: No.

2907
02:39:19,800 --> 02:39:22,560
Speaker 2: By the way, our retention on revenue per ski is

2908
02:39:22,600 --> 02:39:26,880
Speaker 2: still higher than yours. Think about that, we're selling skis

2909
02:39:26,879 --> 02:39:29,680
Speaker 2: at eight ninety. Cut that in half. That's our take

2910
02:39:29,760 --> 02:39:32,119
Speaker 2: per ski. On a two for one, we're still retaining

2911
02:39:32,160 --> 02:39:36,880
Speaker 2: more revenue per ski. It was off model, off our

2912
02:39:36,959 --> 02:39:40,200
Speaker 2: pro form and modeling, but at the same time it

2913
02:39:40,400 --> 02:39:43,520
Speaker 2: was in and out and not a consistent and it

2914
02:39:43,640 --> 02:39:46,920
Speaker 2: achieved a great deal success and movement inventory. But more importantly,

2915
02:39:46,959 --> 02:39:49,720
Speaker 2: we had to get our skis under people's feet on

2916
02:39:49,879 --> 02:39:52,720
Speaker 2: the mountain and we wanted to do that quickly. We

2917
02:39:52,840 --> 02:39:56,040
Speaker 2: know the demand curve in the traditional sense of hard

2918
02:39:56,080 --> 02:39:59,440
Speaker 2: goods and ski business labor day through mid January. But

2919
02:39:59,560 --> 02:40:02,440
Speaker 2: running key resorts, I know that the forty two percent

2920
02:40:02,520 --> 02:40:05,240
Speaker 2: of most revenue is made in between presidents in late March.

2921
02:40:05,640 --> 02:40:07,959
Speaker 2: There's a lot more demand out there just the traditional

2922
02:40:08,280 --> 02:40:11,520
Speaker 2: distribution system, and the ski business doesn't know how to

2923
02:40:11,600 --> 02:40:13,800
Speaker 2: deal with that because they've already pushed all their product

2924
02:40:14,000 --> 02:40:17,080
Speaker 2: through the retailers and they're barely able to know who's

2925
02:40:17,120 --> 02:40:21,720
Speaker 2: buying what let alone. I mean that from a consumer perspective,

2926
02:40:21,800 --> 02:40:25,400
Speaker 2: not volume, but there's a lot not known. In our case,

2927
02:40:25,480 --> 02:40:28,080
Speaker 2: we learned a truckload through that sale and other bundles

2928
02:40:28,120 --> 02:40:31,520
Speaker 2: and other packages we put out there, and yeah, it

2929
02:40:31,560 --> 02:40:32,000
Speaker 2: went well.

2930
02:40:32,640 --> 02:40:37,800
Speaker 1: Okay. Many ski manufacturers don't change the construction but paint

2931
02:40:37,879 --> 02:40:41,680
Speaker 1: the job every year and the skis are discounted at

2932
02:40:41,760 --> 02:40:46,840
Speaker 1: some point during the season. Also, there are model cycles.

2933
02:40:47,640 --> 02:40:52,000
Speaker 1: Will you follow the same situation where you will change

2934
02:40:52,040 --> 02:40:55,200
Speaker 1: the paint shob discount? And when will we see other

2935
02:40:55,320 --> 02:40:57,720
Speaker 1: than the tracking device? When will we see updates in

2936
02:40:57,800 --> 02:40:58,480
Speaker 1: these models?

2937
02:40:58,840 --> 02:41:02,000
Speaker 2: Three questions? No, no, no, and twenty four twenty five?

2938
02:41:03,080 --> 02:41:05,480
Speaker 1: Okay, twenty four to twenty five? What is going to

2939
02:41:05,480 --> 02:41:07,160
Speaker 1: be different about the skis other than the track.

2940
02:41:07,400 --> 02:41:10,440
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, don't need to be too truncated there

2941
02:41:10,480 --> 02:41:15,200
Speaker 2: on the answers. We don't just change the paint job.

2942
02:41:15,800 --> 02:41:20,440
Speaker 2: We're extremely porthright, very very honest, glaringly honest with what

2943
02:41:20,600 --> 02:41:24,240
Speaker 2: has and hasn't changed. For twenty three twenty four, we

2944
02:41:24,400 --> 02:41:27,880
Speaker 2: have increased number of lengths and models. The skis are

2945
02:41:28,240 --> 02:41:30,680
Speaker 2: largely unchanged in some ways, a couple of refinements here

2946
02:41:30,720 --> 02:41:34,720
Speaker 2: and there. Most folks who are not at all categorizes overhauls.

2947
02:41:34,840 --> 02:41:36,959
Speaker 2: But we nor have we represented to anybody that we've

2948
02:41:37,000 --> 02:41:40,160
Speaker 2: overhauled the skis or it's a whole new model. Twenty

2949
02:41:40,200 --> 02:41:43,000
Speaker 2: four to twenty five there will be a host of

2950
02:41:43,160 --> 02:41:47,800
Speaker 2: changes for the design of the skis, some of them substantial,

2951
02:41:47,920 --> 02:41:49,680
Speaker 2: some of them not. One of them will be the

2952
02:41:49,879 --> 02:41:53,240
Speaker 2: high likelihood of integration of peak located into every pair

2953
02:41:53,280 --> 02:41:53,680
Speaker 2: of skis.

2954
02:41:55,040 --> 02:41:57,840
Speaker 1: Okay, I think we've covered. Is there anything you need

2955
02:41:57,959 --> 02:42:00,240
Speaker 1: to say about this that we haven't spoken about out?

2956
02:42:00,680 --> 02:42:04,160
Speaker 2: Holy crap? No, I mean, geez, line of questions. Man,

2957
02:42:04,240 --> 02:42:05,400
Speaker 2: I feel like I'm in a deposition.

2958
02:42:05,520 --> 02:42:08,280
Speaker 1: Well, you know, as I said, great, believe me, I

2959
02:42:08,480 --> 02:42:11,320
Speaker 1: have more, but I won't ask them because as you

2960
02:42:11,400 --> 02:42:14,000
Speaker 1: get in I mean, listen, they're so you know, some

2961
02:42:14,120 --> 02:42:16,080
Speaker 1: of this shit is marketing. Give you look at Blizard

2962
02:42:16,120 --> 02:42:18,800
Speaker 1: and I'm not a fan of their skis. First they

2963
02:42:18,920 --> 02:42:22,400
Speaker 1: talked about flip core, then they change their core again

2964
02:42:22,480 --> 02:42:25,360
Speaker 1: in terms of now they're talking about and they're not

2965
02:42:25,440 --> 02:42:28,680
Speaker 1: the only company. Well, everybody else just makes the same

2966
02:42:28,840 --> 02:42:32,199
Speaker 1: ski in different lengths. We make it just for these lengths,

2967
02:42:33,440 --> 02:42:36,680
Speaker 1: and then other people there are certain skis identical, but

2968
02:42:36,800 --> 02:42:39,199
Speaker 1: everyone knows no, you've got to buy it in this length,

2969
02:42:39,360 --> 02:42:42,920
Speaker 1: not that length. So there's a lot of variables. And

2970
02:42:43,000 --> 02:42:48,240
Speaker 1: as you say, uh, okay, Amazon, I'm a big Amazon fan.

2971
02:42:48,959 --> 02:42:52,120
Speaker 1: Customer service is amazing as long as you don't abuse it.

2972
02:42:52,560 --> 02:42:57,040
Speaker 1: If you send back four fifty five inch TVs, they

2973
02:42:57,080 --> 02:42:58,680
Speaker 1: will say we're not going to sell anything anywhere.

2974
02:42:58,800 --> 02:43:00,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, hey wait a minute, right.

2975
02:43:00,520 --> 02:43:03,400
Speaker 1: Right, but shy of that, they'll work with you. You

2976
02:43:03,560 --> 02:43:05,560
Speaker 1: never get whereas I've had, So you buy something on

2977
02:43:05,640 --> 02:43:08,480
Speaker 1: eBay because it's unavailable, it's out of production. A lot

2978
02:43:08,520 --> 02:43:10,520
Speaker 1: of those people they don't want to take well you're sure,

2979
02:43:10,640 --> 02:43:14,240
Speaker 1: blah blah blah blah blah. So you know, I think

2980
02:43:14,360 --> 02:43:17,680
Speaker 1: just getting peopled over the hurdle knowing that hey, you'll

2981
02:43:17,720 --> 02:43:19,599
Speaker 1: take them back is important.

2982
02:43:19,280 --> 02:43:22,280
Speaker 2: In two seconds without any questions. They think. There's a

2983
02:43:22,320 --> 02:43:25,040
Speaker 2: couple of things I'd thrown that you hit on in

2984
02:43:25,120 --> 02:43:28,320
Speaker 2: those comments, and that is number one. We have this

2985
02:43:28,480 --> 02:43:31,760
Speaker 2: internal deal. We're not here to do what's been done before.

2986
02:43:33,360 --> 02:43:36,080
Speaker 2: And that's not disrespectful of the past. It is, in

2987
02:43:36,160 --> 02:43:38,840
Speaker 2: fact respectful of the past. There's just not much about

2988
02:43:38,879 --> 02:43:42,959
Speaker 2: our company team what we do that has any trait

2989
02:43:43,160 --> 02:43:45,520
Speaker 2: or characteristic that has a tracer bull of going back

2990
02:43:45,560 --> 02:43:49,680
Speaker 2: to the traditional ski industry in any way, shape or form.

2991
02:43:49,920 --> 02:43:54,160
Speaker 2: And it's just not necessarily anything other than our chosen path.

2992
02:43:54,800 --> 02:44:02,440
Speaker 2: That said, we have this patentable, patentable cut out that

2993
02:44:02,520 --> 02:44:04,800
Speaker 2: we call the Keel. I was dragged kicking and screaming

2994
02:44:05,240 --> 02:44:07,480
Speaker 2: into naming it. I didn't want to, and the main

2995
02:44:07,560 --> 02:44:11,600
Speaker 2: reason being upon Titanol and other things. The industry has

2996
02:44:11,640 --> 02:44:14,880
Speaker 2: been void of real true hardcore innovation. It's been a

2997
02:44:14,920 --> 02:44:18,840
Speaker 2: whole bunch of really nifty, tricky names flipping this and that,

2998
02:44:19,120 --> 02:44:22,920
Speaker 2: core this, you know, Titanum, all that stuff, And I

2999
02:44:22,920 --> 02:44:24,760
Speaker 2: wouldn't say it feel like a sucker, but we came

3000
02:44:24,800 --> 02:44:30,040
Speaker 2: into this bob as contrarian's skeptics. That has fed our

3001
02:44:30,320 --> 02:44:32,879
Speaker 2: development of our business model that includes I don't want

3002
02:44:32,879 --> 02:44:36,199
Speaker 2: to name it because it sounded like yet another iteration

3003
02:44:36,440 --> 02:44:40,640
Speaker 2: of nifty sizzly crap that doesn't necessarily but we had

3004
02:44:40,680 --> 02:44:42,560
Speaker 2: to name it, so like, okay, we'll call it keel

3005
02:44:43,360 --> 02:44:45,520
Speaker 2: because we have to. We have to name it something,

3006
02:44:46,920 --> 02:44:51,120
Speaker 2: and it makes a difference. And now we have a

3007
02:44:51,160 --> 02:44:53,640
Speaker 2: patent in place and we're in a good spot. But

3008
02:44:53,760 --> 02:44:57,160
Speaker 2: everything about our company is straight up. We don't speak

3009
02:44:57,200 --> 02:44:59,280
Speaker 2: in hipster's talk. In fact, inside our company there's a

3010
02:44:59,320 --> 02:45:03,519
Speaker 2: ten dollars fine anytime you use the words like disruptor

3011
02:45:03,879 --> 02:45:06,240
Speaker 2: or that kind of hipster talk, that these are words

3012
02:45:06,240 --> 02:45:08,360
Speaker 2: that used to mean something as a Middlebury graduate or

3013
02:45:08,400 --> 02:45:10,360
Speaker 2: I would be shocked if you don't have an appreciation

3014
02:45:10,520 --> 02:45:13,200
Speaker 2: for how the English language has been diluted in this case.

3015
02:45:13,240 --> 02:45:14,760
Speaker 2: These are words you used to mean something. Now they've

3016
02:45:14,800 --> 02:45:20,640
Speaker 2: been so abused by many in the industry, including advertising folks,

3017
02:45:20,760 --> 02:45:24,240
Speaker 2: that they don't have any value. In our case, we

3018
02:45:24,440 --> 02:45:29,119
Speaker 2: just say say things extremely straight up, fashion, blunt, force, trauma,

3019
02:45:29,560 --> 02:45:34,000
Speaker 2: like you said about ten minutes ago, point plank. Everything

3020
02:45:34,000 --> 02:45:36,600
Speaker 2: about our company is straight up. How we communicate the customers,

3021
02:45:36,840 --> 02:45:39,680
Speaker 2: the truth matters. We're not like, we're not going to

3022
02:45:39,680 --> 02:45:42,880
Speaker 2: be pulling out stuff that is sisily marketing bs and

3023
02:45:43,200 --> 02:45:45,680
Speaker 2: trying to convince people to buy our skis based on that.

3024
02:45:46,400 --> 02:45:49,440
Speaker 2: It's a different deal. We just hey, look man, Body

3025
02:45:49,480 --> 02:45:51,360
Speaker 2: and I are retired guys. We have a lot of

3026
02:45:51,400 --> 02:45:53,320
Speaker 2: time on our hands. We have some experience, and we

3027
02:45:53,400 --> 02:45:57,680
Speaker 2: think we can do this pretty well, including the strategic initiatives.

3028
02:45:58,480 --> 02:46:00,600
Speaker 2: But that's just a no bullshit coach to how we

3029
02:46:01,080 --> 02:46:06,199
Speaker 2: come into this world of making skis and selling skis.

3030
02:46:06,480 --> 02:46:09,840
Speaker 2: And good news is we've done well in some of

3031
02:46:09,879 --> 02:46:12,800
Speaker 2: the ski ratings and write ups and we're prideful in that.

3032
02:46:13,480 --> 02:46:16,640
Speaker 2: But there's we're just getting started. Body's got a notebook

3033
02:46:17,120 --> 02:46:20,400
Speaker 2: full of ideas and there's more to come on the

3034
02:46:20,480 --> 02:46:22,920
Speaker 2: skis themselves, as well as these other initiatives.

3035
02:46:25,240 --> 02:46:27,760
Speaker 1: Well, I'm kind of speechless because this is my passion.

3036
02:46:27,840 --> 02:46:29,680
Speaker 1: But in any of Andy, Andy, I want to thank

3037
02:46:29,760 --> 02:46:32,120
Speaker 1: you so much for taking the time to speak with

3038
02:46:32,240 --> 02:46:33,199
Speaker 1: me and my audience.

3039
02:46:33,520 --> 02:46:36,160
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, this is great. I mean, I love the history.

3040
02:46:36,600 --> 02:46:39,600
Speaker 2: I got to say it. I'm intensely honored, particularly honored

3041
02:46:39,600 --> 02:46:42,040
Speaker 2: to be here because you have had books like Leiwikie

3042
02:46:42,680 --> 02:46:45,800
Speaker 2: Buying Rate, one of my guitar heroes, on the show

3043
02:46:46,000 --> 02:46:48,000
Speaker 2: and I'm just a I'm just a retired guy in

3044
02:46:48,080 --> 02:46:51,800
Speaker 2: Montana that rides horses a lot, and to be on

3045
02:46:51,879 --> 02:46:54,960
Speaker 2: the show and have questions, your passion is welcomed and

3046
02:46:55,000 --> 02:46:57,039
Speaker 2: I'll really appreciate the chance.

3047
02:46:57,720 --> 02:47:00,920
Speaker 1: Okay, till next time. This is Bob Left sets