WEBVTT - Havana Syndrome: ¿Qué Diablos? 0:00:01.480 --> 0:00:04.280 Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of I 0:00:04.360 --> 0:00:13.520 Heart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, 0:00:13.560 --> 0:00:17.520 and there's Charles W Chuck Bryant, and Um. I think 0:00:17.600 --> 0:00:21.479 Dave's around somewhere sitting in for Jerry. Who's Can we 0:00:21.480 --> 0:00:24.200 say where Jerry is, Chuck, I don't think we can yet, 0:00:24.239 --> 0:00:27.000 but it's pretty cool. Okay, Yeah, Jerry's on He's on 0:00:27.080 --> 0:00:31.480 a cool field trip. That's for Uh. That's none you Okay, 0:00:31.560 --> 0:00:33.360 you ever say that when you were a little No, 0:00:33.440 --> 0:00:35.000 I had it said to me a lot, but I 0:00:35.120 --> 0:00:39.920 never I never had occasion to say it. None your business. Um. 0:00:40.400 --> 0:00:42.320 By the way, this is stuff you should know for 0:00:42.360 --> 0:00:48.199 those of you like say it. Yes, the anticipate patient. 0:00:50.560 --> 0:00:56.880 So Chuck um, speaking of anticipation, we're talking today about 0:00:57.160 --> 0:01:02.040 one of the greatest medical mystery reas that has hit 0:01:02.120 --> 0:01:05.640 the world, at the very least the United States in 0:01:05.640 --> 0:01:09.240 a really long time. It's a little something that's been 0:01:09.240 --> 0:01:11.720 flying under the radar and really flew under the radar 0:01:11.760 --> 0:01:13.440 for a while. But there's probably a lot of people 0:01:13.480 --> 0:01:16.560 out there haven't heard of this. Something called havana syndrome, 0:01:18.080 --> 0:01:20.800 and havana syndrome is we should say at the outset, 0:01:21.040 --> 0:01:23.839 there's not going to be any resolution to this episode. 0:01:24.720 --> 0:01:30.280 It's deeply Yeah, it's really dissatisfying. The whole thing is 0:01:30.800 --> 0:01:33.200 we don't know what it is. Nobody knows what it is, 0:01:33.280 --> 0:01:37.080 and really, honestly, the theories are not not great. There's 0:01:37.080 --> 0:01:39.560 no one theory. You're like, of course that's it. Everybody 0:01:39.560 --> 0:01:43.280 else has been ridiculous. Yeah, So in one way it's 0:01:43.319 --> 0:01:44.960 kind of interesting and that we get to cover a 0:01:45.000 --> 0:01:49.400 lot of stuff, but in another way, it's again deeply unsatisfying. 0:01:50.240 --> 0:01:53.080 But the the whole thing of Havana syndrome is it 0:01:53.120 --> 0:01:55.520 all begins in that that, I believe the end of 0:01:55.560 --> 0:01:58.160 two thousand sixteen. Around December of two thousand and sixteen, 0:01:58.600 --> 0:02:00.960 just like a year after you, the United States had 0:02:01.000 --> 0:02:05.280 opened its embassy again in Cuba after decades of this 0:02:05.400 --> 0:02:11.519 kind of chilly cold war um like pretending one another 0:02:11.600 --> 0:02:16.480 isn't there um relationship. Just a year after that, there 0:02:16.520 --> 0:02:20.560 was a station agent, a CIA station agent in Havana 0:02:21.080 --> 0:02:25.320 who started complaining of some really weird symptoms after hearing 0:02:25.320 --> 0:02:30.639 a really weird noise, and that kicked this whole mess off. Yeah, 0:02:30.720 --> 0:02:32.960 there's uh, this is worth reading. I think from the 0:02:33.000 --> 0:02:36.760 Guardian in and I don't think this is the first one, 0:02:37.800 --> 0:02:40.560 but they were all very similar to people who were 0:02:41.240 --> 0:02:45.440 affected by this mystery. It says this the blaring, grinding 0:02:45.520 --> 0:02:48.560 noise jolted the American diplomat from his bed in the 0:02:48.680 --> 0:02:51.440 Havannah hotel. He moved just a few feet and there 0:02:51.520 --> 0:02:55.320 was silence. He climbed back into bed, and explicably, the 0:02:55.360 --> 0:02:58.480 agonizing sound hit him again. It was as if he 0:02:58.480 --> 0:03:03.799 had walked through some invisible wall cutting straight through his room. 0:03:03.840 --> 0:03:08.480 And uh, you know, that doesn't really describe much. But 0:03:08.680 --> 0:03:11.680 when you talked to some of the people who uh, 0:03:11.720 --> 0:03:14.360 and we did personally talk to all of these people 0:03:14.840 --> 0:03:21.919 were given Uh. There were weird symptoms um earpain, tentatives, headaches, 0:03:22.800 --> 0:03:30.440 hearing loss, vertigo, dizziness, nausea, disorientation, blurred vision, nosebleed, fatigue. Uh. 0:03:30.480 --> 0:03:33.839 Sometimes the symptoms were sort of temporary and not too 0:03:33.840 --> 0:03:37.000 bad with some of the people. Sometimes it was um 0:03:37.040 --> 0:03:40.320 really bad, and some people ended up retiring and saying 0:03:40.440 --> 0:03:42.280 this is it. I'm out of here. Yeah. Some people 0:03:42.320 --> 0:03:44.960 went on to be diagnosed with swelling of the brain 0:03:45.840 --> 0:03:49.680 with a concussion um. Some people suffered what seems to 0:03:49.760 --> 0:03:53.600 be permanent hearing loss, and all of this was localized 0:03:53.680 --> 0:03:58.400 just in the Havanna Bureau of the American or the 0:03:58.400 --> 0:04:02.200 American Embassy took Cuba in Havana, like that's it. So 0:04:02.240 --> 0:04:06.600 there was suddenly this weird on symptoms. I think as 0:04:06.600 --> 0:04:09.480 many as ninety people came down with this what came 0:04:09.480 --> 0:04:12.640 to be called Havana syndrome. Some of them said I 0:04:12.680 --> 0:04:14.640 heard a weird noise and then all of a sudden, 0:04:14.640 --> 0:04:17.640 I had vertigo. Other people didn't hear anything. They just 0:04:17.680 --> 0:04:20.880 all of a sudden couldn't concentrate any longer. And it 0:04:20.920 --> 0:04:24.159 was this. The symptoms all seemed to Nobody said I 0:04:24.200 --> 0:04:27.160 had a fever or my legs started swelling. It all 0:04:27.200 --> 0:04:30.719 seemed to be kind of clustered around your um. You're 0:04:30.880 --> 0:04:34.160 hearing your ears, your nose, your throat kind of thing, 0:04:34.400 --> 0:04:36.920 but without the throat, without the nose, mainly just your 0:04:36.920 --> 0:04:39.719 ears and your brain. They seemed to be a cluster 0:04:39.800 --> 0:04:42.359 of neurological symptoms that no one had any idea what 0:04:42.560 --> 0:04:46.279 was going on. Yeah, so you know, of course the 0:04:46.360 --> 0:04:48.800 US is going to investigate something like this, and we'll 0:04:49.040 --> 0:04:51.719 get into There were a couple of pretty deep, well 0:04:52.080 --> 0:04:54.839 as deep as you can get in this case investigations. 0:04:55.520 --> 0:04:58.719 But the very first thing that happened was the FBI. 0:04:59.040 --> 0:05:04.040 It was like, hey, this is some sort of acoustic attack. Uh, 0:05:04.120 --> 0:05:06.680 some sort of sound waves are being used. Let's get 0:05:06.680 --> 0:05:10.080 in there and at least check out the locations, check 0:05:10.080 --> 0:05:13.200 out everything around where these people are living, where they're staying. 0:05:13.839 --> 0:05:16.960 And they found nothing. They came up really pretty much empty. 0:05:17.080 --> 0:05:19.640 And we should also point out this was I think 0:05:19.680 --> 0:05:23.000 a few Canadian diplomats too. It wasn't entirely us, right, 0:05:23.120 --> 0:05:24.800 but for the most part it was US, and it 0:05:24.839 --> 0:05:27.919 seemed to be it seemed to be concentrated. Uh in 0:05:28.040 --> 0:05:33.320 the homes of the diplomats, um and by. Diplomats were 0:05:33.320 --> 0:05:37.360 including CIA agents who weren't known who. They weren't like, 0:05:37.400 --> 0:05:39.640 hey I'm the CI agent here they were they were 0:05:39.640 --> 0:05:44.880 posing as diplomats. So the diplomats like Keaton, well who 0:05:44.960 --> 0:05:49.479 was he posing as Michael Keaton in uh what was 0:05:49.520 --> 0:05:53.760 it out of sight with He's an FBI guy And 0:05:53.800 --> 0:05:56.479 he showed up with a big T shirt that said FBI. 0:05:57.640 --> 0:05:59.920 And Dennis Farina had that great joke he says, he 0:06:00.080 --> 0:06:02.800 you got another one that says undercover. Yeah, I love 0:06:02.839 --> 0:06:07.040 that guy. He was the best. Who else could buy 0:06:07.080 --> 0:06:11.480 Dennis Farina could follow up after Jerry Orbach, nobody, and 0:06:11.520 --> 0:06:13.280 he did it. He did it with class. He did 0:06:13.320 --> 0:06:17.120 he brought his own, his own character. Just amazing stuff. 0:06:17.600 --> 0:06:19.480 Then I was about to say I didn't see any 0:06:19.480 --> 0:06:21.279 of that show. But I was about to say, except 0:06:21.360 --> 0:06:24.680 he was no singer like Jerry Orbach. But we might 0:06:24.720 --> 0:06:27.599 be wrong again, he could be. I really walked past 0:06:27.640 --> 0:06:32.200 that one. I guess so. Um So, the diplomats were 0:06:32.240 --> 0:06:34.600 being seemed to be affected at their houses and then 0:06:34.600 --> 0:06:38.159 there were two hotels in Havana that um that these 0:06:38.279 --> 0:06:43.600 these symptoms started their onset on. So again that was 0:06:43.680 --> 0:06:48.839 that was basically like the first um investigation the FBI. 0:06:49.040 --> 0:06:51.159 The FBI conducted it was just like I don't I 0:06:51.200 --> 0:06:54.240 don't know, but clearly it was an attack. You know, 0:06:54.560 --> 0:06:58.080 it's it's localized to diplomats and their families. It's in Havannah. 0:06:58.080 --> 0:07:02.280 It's not happening anywhere else for now. Um So, some 0:07:02.320 --> 0:07:04.039 sort of attack, we just don't know what it was. 0:07:04.200 --> 0:07:07.600 That was the first investigation, and so the State Department 0:07:07.640 --> 0:07:11.520 said let's take a little deeper. Yeah, I mean, they 0:07:11.560 --> 0:07:14.240 kind of kept it quiet for a little while I 0:07:14.280 --> 0:07:17.520 think the media eventually got wind of what they were 0:07:17.560 --> 0:07:21.960 calling a sonic attack, and then uh, the former president 0:07:22.280 --> 0:07:27.400 administration presidential administration, UM, as things were starting to I 0:07:27.400 --> 0:07:29.840 guess thaw a little bit, said you know what, you 0:07:30.080 --> 0:07:32.400 guys are out of here and kicked out to Cuban 0:07:32.440 --> 0:07:36.200 diplomats UM, kind of as payback basically when Cuba the 0:07:36.240 --> 0:07:38.320 whole time was going, we didn't do this, we don't 0:07:38.320 --> 0:07:41.480 know what you're talking about. Uh, And as we'll see later, 0:07:41.560 --> 0:07:46.600 they um supposedly even investigated and tried to help investigate. Yeah. Yeah, 0:07:47.160 --> 0:07:49.920 that was the one of the longstanding things that Cubans 0:07:49.920 --> 0:07:52.720 have said basically from the outset is twofold one. They 0:07:52.720 --> 0:07:55.600 had nothing to do with it, knew nothing about it, 0:07:55.880 --> 0:07:58.440 and that they would take something like that very seriously. 0:07:58.840 --> 0:08:02.280 And then too they seemed to suspect that, um, this 0:08:02.440 --> 0:08:07.360 eventually snowballed into an easy way to cut ties again 0:08:07.480 --> 0:08:10.440 with Cuba, that that was kind of something that was 0:08:10.560 --> 0:08:13.600 driving this narrative as well. Part of the problem also 0:08:13.800 --> 0:08:16.120 is you know, like you said, the State's Department was 0:08:16.200 --> 0:08:19.400 keeping this secret, not just from the American public. Congress 0:08:19.400 --> 0:08:22.679 hadn't even heard about this, and everyone found out about 0:08:22.720 --> 0:08:25.840 the same time. UM that when the media started reporting 0:08:25.920 --> 0:08:28.720 on it, Congress found out about it, and apparently Marco 0:08:28.840 --> 0:08:33.280 Rubio latched onto this because he's of Cuban ancestry. I'm 0:08:33.320 --> 0:08:35.760 not sure he is or his parents are from Cuba, 0:08:36.040 --> 0:08:38.959 but he hates the Castro regime, and so this was 0:08:39.000 --> 0:08:41.600 a big thing for him to kind of clamp onto 0:08:41.640 --> 0:08:45.360 and really kind of enrage his base, um, the Cuban 0:08:45.400 --> 0:08:50.360 expatriate community in in Miami, in South Florida. UM. And he, 0:08:50.480 --> 0:08:52.680 out of the gate, I think, even released a press 0:08:52.679 --> 0:08:55.360 release referring to this as a sonic attack, like really 0:08:55.440 --> 0:08:58.000 kind of taking whatever the FBI had surmise and just 0:08:58.080 --> 0:09:00.640 basically saying this is this is what happened. We just 0:09:00.640 --> 0:09:03.160 haven't figured out how, but it was an attack. And 0:09:03.240 --> 0:09:08.079 that really set the paradigm moving forward for basically everybody 0:09:08.120 --> 0:09:13.800 except for thankfully large swaths of the scientific community. Yeah. 0:09:13.880 --> 0:09:18.079 So they commissioned the National Academy of Science to to 0:09:18.120 --> 0:09:22.160 go undergo an investigation in twenty nineteen, and even by 0:09:22.200 --> 0:09:26.960 that time, people that understood things like acoustic or possible 0:09:27.000 --> 0:09:31.400 acoustic attacks or just acoustics basically said this wasn't some 0:09:31.480 --> 0:09:34.280 kind of a sonic attack. It's you know, it is 0:09:34.360 --> 0:09:38.040 possible that you can focus a sound beam to an area, 0:09:38.120 --> 0:09:41.840 but you would have to truck in some equipment that's 0:09:41.880 --> 0:09:44.680 so big the FBI would have found it. Uh. And 0:09:44.760 --> 0:09:46.839 even if they managed to do that and get away 0:09:46.840 --> 0:09:50.040 with it, um, there were so many different symptoms going 0:09:50.080 --> 0:09:53.040 on with these people. It can't all be explained away 0:09:53.080 --> 0:09:57.360 by an acoustic attack. And let's say that even happened, 0:09:57.800 --> 0:10:01.160 it definitely wouldn't cause brain damage, Like the worst acoustic 0:10:01.200 --> 0:10:04.680 attack wouldn't cause somebody brain damage. No, So really there's 0:10:04.720 --> 0:10:07.280 two ways. Because here's the other thing, like people said 0:10:07.280 --> 0:10:09.800 they heard a weird sound or whatever, but it wasn't 0:10:09.840 --> 0:10:13.840 necessarily some like they were clearly being attacked by the sound. 0:10:13.920 --> 0:10:16.520 That wasn't what they reported. They just some of them 0:10:16.600 --> 0:10:18.160 said I heard a weird sound first, and then all 0:10:18.160 --> 0:10:20.560 of a sudden, I have these weird symptoms. That's, you know, 0:10:20.600 --> 0:10:23.360 what gave rise to the sonic attack theory. But there's 0:10:23.400 --> 0:10:27.080 basically two ways to attack people with sound, especially sound 0:10:27.120 --> 0:10:30.160 they can't hear. It's either below our threshold of hearing, 0:10:30.200 --> 0:10:34.880 which is infrasound. What what I was trying to make 0:10:34.920 --> 0:10:37.440 a yoko on no joke, but right, that's the third 0:10:37.520 --> 0:10:41.800 route that she combines the two. It's a sound um 0:10:42.040 --> 0:10:46.120 infrasound is below our threshold, below twenty hurts, right, and 0:10:46.240 --> 0:10:49.679 you actually can cause things like vertigo in somebody or 0:10:49.800 --> 0:10:53.760 vomiting um loss of bowel control if you hit somebody 0:10:53.760 --> 0:10:58.840 with a loud enough infrasound blast. But like you said, yeah, 0:10:58.960 --> 0:11:01.600 you can make someone poop their pants with infrasound, but 0:11:01.679 --> 0:11:04.080 you would have to basically, like you said, truck in 0:11:04.800 --> 0:11:08.440 just this huge rack of sub waffers and shoot it 0:11:08.679 --> 0:11:11.920 right at somebody to make them lose control of their bowels. 0:11:11.960 --> 0:11:14.080 Like it would be very obvious that that this is 0:11:14.120 --> 0:11:17.559 being done. You can't use as as an excuse moving 0:11:17.559 --> 0:11:22.160 forward anyway, Oh I still will, Okay, ultrasound above our 0:11:22.200 --> 0:11:26.839 threshold of hearing or twenty killer hurts and above you um, 0:11:26.960 --> 0:11:29.960 you there is stuff on the market that you can 0:11:30.120 --> 0:11:33.080 you can actually you know, direct at somebody a beam 0:11:33.120 --> 0:11:37.080 of ultrasound and and you know, hurt their hearing, but 0:11:37.160 --> 0:11:39.720 you're not going to cause vertigo or anything like that. 0:11:40.000 --> 0:11:43.400 And to really like cause major symptoms or something approaching 0:11:43.440 --> 0:11:46.480 a concussion or traumatic brain injury, which some of these 0:11:46.520 --> 0:11:49.960 people were diagnosed with UM. There was a scientist who said, 0:11:50.040 --> 0:11:53.640 I think his name is Joseph Pompey's a psychoacoustics expert, 0:11:53.679 --> 0:11:56.720 which is awesome. He said that you would basically have 0:11:56.880 --> 0:12:01.480 to dip your head in a pool line with UM 0:12:01.559 --> 0:12:07.280 ultrasound ultrasonic transducers UM to to get like actual brain 0:12:07.360 --> 0:12:11.400 damage from that. So that didn't happen in anybody. UM. 0:12:11.440 --> 0:12:14.640 So again they said sonic attack, but it must have 0:12:14.679 --> 0:12:18.160 been some sort of exotic weapon that even the CIA 0:12:18.480 --> 0:12:21.600 isn't aware of. All right, I think good time for 0:12:21.600 --> 0:12:25.080 a break. Yes, I agree, go stick our head in 0:12:25.120 --> 0:12:28.120 a in a pool of ultrasonic transducers. I can't wait 0:12:28.120 --> 0:12:54.960 to see what happens and boot my pants. All right, great, okay, Chuck. 0:12:55.000 --> 0:12:57.760 So you said that the State Department sicked the National 0:12:57.800 --> 0:13:01.920 Academy of Sciences on the Savannason thing, right, Yeah, Like 0:13:02.000 --> 0:13:04.680 everyone at this point is saying it's not a sonic attack. 0:13:04.760 --> 0:13:10.320 So they started focusing on potential viral attack, UM, pesticide 0:13:10.320 --> 0:13:13.400 poisoning because this is when Zeka was a thing, and 0:13:13.480 --> 0:13:17.880 Zeca fumigation was going on. UM either microwaves, which is interesting, 0:13:18.520 --> 0:13:21.560 and then our favorite frankly one of our favorite topics 0:13:21.600 --> 0:13:24.760 was mass hysteria. Yeah, we did. Um, we've talked about 0:13:24.800 --> 0:13:26.440 it twice. At least. We did a short stuff on 0:13:26.480 --> 0:13:30.240 Gloria Ramirez, remember her, and then we also did a 0:13:30.280 --> 0:13:33.360 full length episode some really interesting Cases of mass hysteria 0:13:33.400 --> 0:13:36.520 from two thousand sixteen. Yeah, so put a pin in 0:13:36.600 --> 0:13:40.679 that um n AS is doing their study. They were, 0:13:40.720 --> 0:13:42.400 you know, they were sort of behind the eight ball 0:13:42.440 --> 0:13:46.600 a little bit because, um, by this point things had 0:13:46.600 --> 0:13:49.360 already progressed. You know, they were at disadvantage in a 0:13:49.440 --> 0:13:53.000 lot of ways. This was after the fact. Um they 0:13:53.040 --> 0:13:56.280 didn't know like these doctors who were who were treating 0:13:56.280 --> 0:13:59.280 these people, they didn't know they were investigating a mystery. 0:13:59.320 --> 0:14:04.040 They were treating people for a medical issue. So your 0:14:04.080 --> 0:14:07.320 approach to a situation like that is a lot different 0:14:07.360 --> 0:14:10.560 if you're not investigating. Like, no one is back there saying, hey, 0:14:10.600 --> 0:14:13.040 find out what weird thing happened to these people. They 0:14:13.040 --> 0:14:15.880 were just like treating tentatives and nausea and stuff like. Yeah, 0:14:15.880 --> 0:14:17.680 that seems to be a really big ball drop on 0:14:17.760 --> 0:14:21.400 the part of the State Department and a particular here. Yeah, 0:14:21.600 --> 0:14:25.240 in particular the Cuban Bureau or Havannah Bureau. There wasn't 0:14:25.240 --> 0:14:28.720 anybody at the top saying, hey, there's something clearly going 0:14:28.800 --> 0:14:31.200 on here. All of these people when you go to 0:14:31.280 --> 0:14:34.760 this one particular doctor and have the doctor this one 0:14:34.840 --> 0:14:38.640 medical center, somebody looking at you know, looking for all 0:14:38.640 --> 0:14:42.840 these symptoms and documenting this. They were just being treated individually. Finally, 0:14:42.880 --> 0:14:46.560 at one point they did kind of bring everybody together 0:14:46.600 --> 0:14:50.760 and have a meeting um. But but before that, there 0:14:50.840 --> 0:14:52.760 was just a lot of treatment going on. It wasn't 0:14:52.800 --> 0:14:55.880 being documented properly. So the n AS just right out 0:14:55.880 --> 0:14:57.520 of the gate, was like, this is what we're working 0:14:57.600 --> 0:15:00.640 with for real. Yeah, I mean they didn't even have 0:15:00.720 --> 0:15:04.200 stuff like original blood samples for when these people got sick. 0:15:04.520 --> 0:15:07.280 There was a lot of time that passed, so they 0:15:07.680 --> 0:15:09.880 just they really had no way to tell anything. They 0:15:09.920 --> 0:15:12.840 had incomplete data to begin with. Uh. And then of 0:15:12.880 --> 0:15:18.000 course you're dealing with Cuba, so you're not getting I mean, 0:15:18.280 --> 0:15:21.080 you know, they're investigating some stuff, but it's not like 0:15:21.240 --> 0:15:23.720 if this happened to Canada and we were really sharing 0:15:23.720 --> 0:15:26.280 information like that. Well, from what I read, the Cubans 0:15:26.280 --> 0:15:28.960 are saying like we were totally willing to collaborate. The 0:15:29.000 --> 0:15:33.720 State Department refused to let the the n AS talk 0:15:33.800 --> 0:15:38.720 to us. They couldn't. They couldn't accept our data. They couldn't. Um, yeah, 0:15:38.720 --> 0:15:41.960 I guess the Cubans had conducted neighborhood surveys, had done 0:15:42.000 --> 0:15:45.720 its own investigation, and the n AS was barred from 0:15:45.840 --> 0:15:48.680 using any of that data. And then one other thing 0:15:48.720 --> 0:15:51.880 that hamstrung them right out of the gate was, um, 0:15:52.640 --> 0:15:56.320 the medical files. These are medical files of diplomats and 0:15:56.360 --> 0:16:00.000 in some cases CIA agents. So not only is there 0:16:00.120 --> 0:16:03.800 like hippa stuff going on, um, like hippo protection, so 0:16:03.840 --> 0:16:05.680 that there are things have to be redacted, there's like 0:16:05.760 --> 0:16:08.360 national security stuff too, and you know, like the State 0:16:08.400 --> 0:16:13.240 Department is very you know, redaction happy, um when it 0:16:13.280 --> 0:16:15.920 comes to stuff like that. So they were basically handed 0:16:15.920 --> 0:16:19.520 medical files that had huge black bars everywhere over possibly 0:16:19.560 --> 0:16:23.000 important information. So you put all this stuff together and 0:16:23.040 --> 0:16:28.240 the National Academy of Sciences cannot possibly arrive at a 0:16:28.320 --> 0:16:33.320 clear picture of the problem, the symptoms, when, what happened, when, 0:16:33.760 --> 0:16:36.840 who was near whom, at what point, um, And so 0:16:36.880 --> 0:16:41.800 they can't they can't possibly map produce an epidemiological map. 0:16:41.920 --> 0:16:44.600 So whatever they come up with is going to be flawed. 0:16:44.800 --> 0:16:48.560 And they realized this from you know, from the get go. Yeah, 0:16:48.640 --> 0:16:51.040 So what they ended up coming up with, Um, the 0:16:51.160 --> 0:16:53.000 n A S said, you know what, it was a 0:16:53.040 --> 0:16:58.320 directed pulse radio frequency energy and we think that's the 0:16:58.360 --> 0:17:02.640 most likely cause. A couple of keywords, they're directed and pulsed, 0:17:03.080 --> 0:17:07.680 means someone did this. It was a very specific, intentional attack. 0:17:08.280 --> 0:17:10.760 It wasn't just some random thing that happened because of 0:17:11.640 --> 0:17:14.199 micro waves or cell phone towers or anything like that. Like, 0:17:14.240 --> 0:17:18.080 it was a purposeful thing. And uh, they said, you know, 0:17:18.119 --> 0:17:20.239 one of the reasons that we think it might be 0:17:20.320 --> 0:17:23.720 this is this thing called the Fry Effect f R 0:17:23.760 --> 0:17:28.080 E Y nothing to do with the deceased former Eagle 0:17:28.600 --> 0:17:36.080 Glenn Fry. Oh the heat is on, haven't I've told 0:17:36.119 --> 0:17:38.760 you about this before. There's a sarad Live sketch featuring 0:17:38.800 --> 0:17:42.359 Ben Stiller I don't remember. He sees Glenn Fry, who's 0:17:42.440 --> 0:17:46.960 actually Will Ferrell, our colleague and co worker um as 0:17:47.000 --> 0:17:50.080 Glenn Fry at a club and he's like, I'm gonna 0:17:50.119 --> 0:17:53.280 go I'm gonna seduce Glenn Fry to like his friends, 0:17:53.760 --> 0:17:55.960 And he goes over and he actually is successful, but 0:17:56.119 --> 0:17:59.200 to his own detriment because Glenn Fry makes him eat 0:17:59.200 --> 0:18:01.440 out of a dog hole and keeps them on the chain. 0:18:01.680 --> 0:18:06.000 And this is wild, like just crazy sex that's going on, 0:18:06.119 --> 0:18:09.320 and the guy like really regrets having seduced Glen fry 0:18:09.440 --> 0:18:12.160 But it's they refer to the heat as on as 0:18:12.200 --> 0:18:18.040 the h is. Oh, it's really I have It is 0:18:18.680 --> 0:18:23.760 impossible that I have not mentioned it before. So when 0:18:24.240 --> 0:18:27.080 the words Glenn Fryer uttered, that's the first thing. You yes, 0:18:27.840 --> 0:18:30.880 pretty much every time. Oh, I have another Glen fry story, 0:18:30.880 --> 0:18:32.760 if you know, if you want to hear it, I 0:18:32.800 --> 0:18:34.959 got all the time in the world. So you and 0:18:35.000 --> 0:18:40.000 I were traveling and um in our car and they're 0:18:40.040 --> 0:18:44.320 they're like, this Eagle song was on, and the one 0:18:44.359 --> 0:18:48.920 about the wheels driving you crazy, Keep take it easy. 0:18:49.440 --> 0:18:52.440 And I hate the Eagles to begin with, from start 0:18:52.480 --> 0:18:55.399 to finish. I hate their entire catalog, every every moment 0:18:55.400 --> 0:18:58.200 of it. That song in particular is one of the 0:18:58.240 --> 0:19:02.200 ones I really hate. And um, we have a pause 0:19:02.280 --> 0:19:06.320 button on our radio and so I paused it because 0:19:06.359 --> 0:19:09.680 this is live radio, and um, I I'm paus it, 0:19:10.080 --> 0:19:12.920 and you know there's the song still. I'm like, man, 0:19:12.920 --> 0:19:15.320 it's so this is a really long song. We do 0:19:15.440 --> 0:19:18.800 this like five times before I like realized that our 0:19:18.880 --> 0:19:22.600 radio can actually pause live radio and that we're not 0:19:22.680 --> 0:19:26.879 like in some new concentric circle. Right. There was a 0:19:26.880 --> 0:19:28.719 moment there were like did we die or is this 0:19:29.080 --> 0:19:31.560 is this? Are we in purgatory? Because this is awful? 0:19:33.280 --> 0:19:37.040 That's really funny. Uh. Well, I am back loving the 0:19:37.080 --> 0:19:39.640 Eagles after many years of not and so I wanted 0:19:39.680 --> 0:19:44.879 to thank listener Clayton Jaynes, who was invited me and 0:19:45.119 --> 0:19:47.280 Emily to the Eagles concert last time they came to 0:19:47.280 --> 0:19:51.159 Atlanta and I got to go backstage there and stand 0:19:51.280 --> 0:19:53.840 on the stage of Philips Arena and like touched on 0:19:53.960 --> 0:19:56.800 Henley's drum kid and look at Joe Ash's and Glenn 0:19:56.800 --> 0:20:00.320 Fries guitars that his son now plays in his absence. Yeah, 0:20:00.359 --> 0:20:03.080 I think I think he told us about that one. 0:20:03.600 --> 0:20:08.000 It was awesome and I know now why you weren't there. Yeah. Yeah, 0:20:08.080 --> 0:20:09.840 But Clayton is a good guy. He does he does 0:20:09.920 --> 0:20:11.680 other bands, like I think he works with Kiss a lot, 0:20:11.720 --> 0:20:14.200 so you probably enjoyed that. I would definitely go see 0:20:14.280 --> 0:20:17.200 Kiss for sure. Yeah, for sure. So if Clayton's listening, 0:20:17.359 --> 0:20:20.160 we want to go to the I want to meet 0:20:20.160 --> 0:20:23.080 those guys. Okay, they scare me. Still. There was another 0:20:23.080 --> 0:20:25.879 guy named Josh who's a cool guy I've lost touch with, 0:20:26.000 --> 0:20:28.359 but he used to invite us to the New Kids 0:20:28.960 --> 0:20:32.840 shows because he was like, he was like a production designer. 0:20:32.920 --> 0:20:35.600 He's like, it's it's like you're talking about with Clayton. 0:20:35.600 --> 0:20:37.240 He doesn't just work with the New Kids, but he's 0:20:37.280 --> 0:20:39.920 like this in demand production designer. But one of the 0:20:40.000 --> 0:20:42.479 shows that he's done for multiple years in a row 0:20:42.560 --> 0:20:45.000 is New Kids. And he kept inviting as to the 0:20:45.040 --> 0:20:48.360 New Kids show. And not not because I didn't want 0:20:48.359 --> 0:20:49.679 to go through the New Kids, but there was no 0:20:50.080 --> 0:20:52.160 I couldn't go to the New Kids every time. So 0:20:52.600 --> 0:20:54.560 but I turned out we turned out to be friends. 0:20:54.560 --> 0:20:56.440 So he's cool. Dude I haven't heard from in a while. 0:20:56.520 --> 0:21:00.800 So I guess if huch because we want to go. 0:21:01.160 --> 0:21:02.639 That's the first show I want to see when this 0:21:02.640 --> 0:21:09.440 whole thing? Oh yeah, then kiss? Uh So the fry effect, boy, 0:21:09.520 --> 0:21:12.959 that was a good long segway or not segwe a tangent? 0:21:13.000 --> 0:21:18.560 What do we call those tangents? Irritations? It's the life 0:21:18.600 --> 0:21:22.600 flood of the show. The fry effect basically is when 0:21:22.600 --> 0:21:25.840 pulse microwaves directed at a target can make a clicking 0:21:25.880 --> 0:21:29.840 sound in the target's ears, and only the person can 0:21:29.920 --> 0:21:31.919 hear that sound. So they kind of go back to 0:21:32.000 --> 0:21:34.560 those UM. I don't know how many people, but some 0:21:34.600 --> 0:21:37.119 of the people said they did hear a clicking sound 0:21:37.200 --> 0:21:39.760 before all this stuff happened, so they kind of were like, 0:21:39.800 --> 0:21:42.359 all right, it's the fry effect. So here's the problem 0:21:42.440 --> 0:21:46.639 with that. At this point, the the National Academy of 0:21:46.640 --> 0:21:51.320 Sciences there, the people the group they am paneled UM 0:21:51.400 --> 0:21:54.600 are just now just ticking off the scientific community because 0:21:54.640 --> 0:21:57.960 they're like, oh, there's this one there's this one quality 0:21:58.040 --> 0:22:01.360 that can happen from this one weird random thing. That's 0:22:01.359 --> 0:22:04.200 probably what it is. We'll just completely ignore everything else 0:22:04.760 --> 0:22:07.919 in favor of that one little piece of information. And 0:22:07.960 --> 0:22:10.399 so there was It's really kind of interesting if you 0:22:10.480 --> 0:22:14.160 read articles on on the Havana syndrome, there's a lot 0:22:14.280 --> 0:22:17.000 of cattiness going on, like you can get a scientist 0:22:17.040 --> 0:22:20.679 to call somebody else basically a clown um with this stuff. 0:22:20.720 --> 0:22:23.679 It's really interesting to read a lot of like flame 0:22:23.720 --> 0:22:27.560 war stuff. But the problem with the fry effect, well, 0:22:27.560 --> 0:22:31.400 there's multiple problems. One, uh, they recorded this sound. There's 0:22:31.400 --> 0:22:34.360 a recording of it out that the AP leaked um 0:22:35.280 --> 0:22:38.480 that you can hear, which would discount the fry effect 0:22:38.480 --> 0:22:42.280 because only the person being targeted by microwaves. Here's the clicking. 0:22:42.400 --> 0:22:45.160 That's a big problem. The other thing is that other 0:22:45.320 --> 0:22:50.679 acoustic or microwave experts say, to produce that clicking in 0:22:50.720 --> 0:22:54.000 the person's ears, you would cook them to death. Like that, 0:22:54.240 --> 0:22:56.200 The the amount of energy it would take to make 0:22:56.240 --> 0:23:00.400 that fry effect happen would kill the person. It wouldn't 0:23:00.440 --> 0:23:03.080 just you know, create the clicking in their ears. But 0:23:03.240 --> 0:23:05.400 that's kind of one of the things that they settled 0:23:05.400 --> 0:23:09.800 on UM as a potential explanation. Well, the State Department 0:23:09.880 --> 0:23:12.480 was like, sounds good to me. Yeah, and I mean 0:23:12.520 --> 0:23:15.720 the the the n A yes said like, we're considering 0:23:15.760 --> 0:23:18.359 all these other things, this is what we think is 0:23:18.400 --> 0:23:23.920 the most plausible, which is actually really the least plausible. Yeah, 0:23:23.960 --> 0:23:26.560 And you know, some of the people in the flame 0:23:26.560 --> 0:23:29.520 War were like why did they like they have these 0:23:29.920 --> 0:23:34.119 medical experts basically and neurology experts. What you need if 0:23:34.119 --> 0:23:36.880 you're going to investigate something like this is a lot 0:23:36.920 --> 0:23:40.280 of different kinds of experts. You need, some acoustic experts 0:23:40.320 --> 0:23:43.320 you need. They like apparently didn't even engage acoustic experts 0:23:44.000 --> 0:23:47.480 talking about this acoustic stuff, and they were like, you 0:23:47.520 --> 0:23:50.359