1 00:00:01,480 --> 00:00:04,280 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of I 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:13,520 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, 3 00:00:13,560 --> 00:00:17,520 Speaker 1: and there's Charles W Chuck Bryant, and Um. I think 4 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:21,479 Speaker 1: Dave's around somewhere sitting in for Jerry. Who's Can we 5 00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:24,200 Speaker 1: say where Jerry is, Chuck, I don't think we can yet, 6 00:00:24,239 --> 00:00:27,000 Speaker 1: but it's pretty cool. Okay, Yeah, Jerry's on He's on 7 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:31,480 Speaker 1: a cool field trip. That's for Uh. That's none you Okay, 8 00:00:31,560 --> 00:00:33,360 Speaker 1: you ever say that when you were a little No, 9 00:00:33,440 --> 00:00:35,000 Speaker 1: I had it said to me a lot, but I 10 00:00:35,120 --> 00:00:39,920 Speaker 1: never I never had occasion to say it. None your business. Um. 11 00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:42,320 Speaker 1: By the way, this is stuff you should know for 12 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:48,199 Speaker 1: those of you like say it. Yes, the anticipate patient. 13 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:56,880 Speaker 1: So Chuck um, speaking of anticipation, we're talking today about 14 00:00:57,160 --> 00:01:02,040 Speaker 1: one of the greatest medical mystery reas that has hit 15 00:01:02,120 --> 00:01:05,640 Speaker 1: the world, at the very least the United States in 16 00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:09,240 Speaker 1: a really long time. It's a little something that's been 17 00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:11,720 Speaker 1: flying under the radar and really flew under the radar 18 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:13,440 Speaker 1: for a while. But there's probably a lot of people 19 00:01:13,480 --> 00:01:16,560 Speaker 1: out there haven't heard of this. Something called havana syndrome, 20 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:20,800 Speaker 1: and havana syndrome is we should say at the outset, 21 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:23,839 Speaker 1: there's not going to be any resolution to this episode. 22 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:30,280 Speaker 1: It's deeply Yeah, it's really dissatisfying. The whole thing is 23 00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:33,200 Speaker 1: we don't know what it is. Nobody knows what it is, 24 00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:37,080 Speaker 1: and really, honestly, the theories are not not great. There's 25 00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:39,560 Speaker 1: no one theory. You're like, of course that's it. Everybody 26 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:43,280 Speaker 1: else has been ridiculous. Yeah, So in one way it's 27 00:01:43,319 --> 00:01:44,960 Speaker 1: kind of interesting and that we get to cover a 28 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:49,400 Speaker 1: lot of stuff, but in another way, it's again deeply unsatisfying. 29 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:53,080 Speaker 1: But the the whole thing of Havana syndrome is it 30 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:55,520 Speaker 1: all begins in that that, I believe the end of 31 00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 1: two thousand sixteen. Around December of two thousand and sixteen, 32 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:00,960 Speaker 1: just like a year after you, the United States had 33 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:05,280 Speaker 1: opened its embassy again in Cuba after decades of this 34 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:11,519 Speaker 1: kind of chilly cold war um like pretending one another 35 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:16,480 Speaker 1: isn't there um relationship. Just a year after that, there 36 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:20,560 Speaker 1: was a station agent, a CIA station agent in Havana 37 00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:25,320 Speaker 1: who started complaining of some really weird symptoms after hearing 38 00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:30,639 Speaker 1: a really weird noise, and that kicked this whole mess off. Yeah, 39 00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:32,960 Speaker 1: there's uh, this is worth reading. I think from the 40 00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:36,760 Speaker 1: Guardian in and I don't think this is the first one, 41 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:40,560 Speaker 1: but they were all very similar to people who were 42 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:45,440 Speaker 1: affected by this mystery. It says this the blaring, grinding 43 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 1: noise jolted the American diplomat from his bed in the 44 00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:51,440 Speaker 1: Havannah hotel. He moved just a few feet and there 45 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:55,320 Speaker 1: was silence. He climbed back into bed, and explicably, the 46 00:02:55,360 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 1: agonizing sound hit him again. It was as if he 47 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:03,799 Speaker 1: had walked through some invisible wall cutting straight through his room. 48 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:08,480 Speaker 1: And uh, you know, that doesn't really describe much. But 49 00:03:08,680 --> 00:03:11,680 Speaker 1: when you talked to some of the people who uh, 50 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:14,360 Speaker 1: and we did personally talk to all of these people 51 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:21,919 Speaker 1: were given Uh. There were weird symptoms um earpain, tentatives, headaches, 52 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:30,440 Speaker 1: hearing loss, vertigo, dizziness, nausea, disorientation, blurred vision, nosebleed, fatigue. Uh. 53 00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:33,839 Speaker 1: Sometimes the symptoms were sort of temporary and not too 54 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 1: bad with some of the people. Sometimes it was um 55 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:40,320 Speaker 1: really bad, and some people ended up retiring and saying 56 00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:42,280 Speaker 1: this is it. I'm out of here. Yeah. Some people 57 00:03:42,320 --> 00:03:44,960 Speaker 1: went on to be diagnosed with swelling of the brain 58 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:49,680 Speaker 1: with a concussion um. Some people suffered what seems to 59 00:03:49,760 --> 00:03:53,600 Speaker 1: be permanent hearing loss, and all of this was localized 60 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:58,400 Speaker 1: just in the Havanna Bureau of the American or the 61 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:02,200 Speaker 1: American Embassy took Cuba in Havana, like that's it. So 62 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:06,600 Speaker 1: there was suddenly this weird on symptoms. I think as 63 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 1: many as ninety people came down with this what came 64 00:04:09,480 --> 00:04:12,640 Speaker 1: to be called Havana syndrome. Some of them said I 65 00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:14,640 Speaker 1: heard a weird noise and then all of a sudden, 66 00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 1: I had vertigo. Other people didn't hear anything. They just 67 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:20,880 Speaker 1: all of a sudden couldn't concentrate any longer. And it 68 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:24,159 Speaker 1: was this. The symptoms all seemed to Nobody said I 69 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:27,160 Speaker 1: had a fever or my legs started swelling. It all 70 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:30,719 Speaker 1: seemed to be kind of clustered around your um. You're 71 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:34,160 Speaker 1: hearing your ears, your nose, your throat kind of thing, 72 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:36,920 Speaker 1: but without the throat, without the nose, mainly just your 73 00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:39,719 Speaker 1: ears and your brain. They seemed to be a cluster 74 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:42,359 Speaker 1: of neurological symptoms that no one had any idea what 75 00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:46,279 Speaker 1: was going on. Yeah, so you know, of course the 76 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:48,800 Speaker 1: US is going to investigate something like this, and we'll 77 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:51,719 Speaker 1: get into There were a couple of pretty deep, well 78 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:54,839 Speaker 1: as deep as you can get in this case investigations. 79 00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:58,719 Speaker 1: But the very first thing that happened was the FBI. 80 00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:04,040 Speaker 1: It was like, hey, this is some sort of acoustic attack. Uh, 81 00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:06,680 Speaker 1: some sort of sound waves are being used. Let's get 82 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 1: in there and at least check out the locations, check 83 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:13,200 Speaker 1: out everything around where these people are living, where they're staying. 84 00:05:13,839 --> 00:05:16,960 Speaker 1: And they found nothing. They came up really pretty much empty. 85 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:19,640 Speaker 1: And we should also point out this was I think 86 00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:23,000 Speaker 1: a few Canadian diplomats too. It wasn't entirely us, right, 87 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:24,800 Speaker 1: but for the most part it was US, and it 88 00:05:24,839 --> 00:05:27,919 Speaker 1: seemed to be it seemed to be concentrated. Uh in 89 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:33,320 Speaker 1: the homes of the diplomats, um and by. Diplomats were 90 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:37,360 Speaker 1: including CIA agents who weren't known who. They weren't like, 91 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:39,640 Speaker 1: hey I'm the CI agent here they were they were 92 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:44,880 Speaker 1: posing as diplomats. So the diplomats like Keaton, well who 93 00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:49,479 Speaker 1: was he posing as Michael Keaton in uh what was 94 00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:53,760 Speaker 1: it out of sight with He's an FBI guy And 95 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:56,479 Speaker 1: he showed up with a big T shirt that said FBI. 96 00:05:57,640 --> 00:05:59,920 Speaker 1: And Dennis Farina had that great joke he says, he 97 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:02,800 Speaker 1: you got another one that says undercover. Yeah, I love 98 00:06:02,839 --> 00:06:07,040 Speaker 1: that guy. He was the best. Who else could buy 99 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:11,480 Speaker 1: Dennis Farina could follow up after Jerry Orbach, nobody, and 100 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:13,280 Speaker 1: he did it. He did it with class. He did 101 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:17,120 Speaker 1: he brought his own, his own character. Just amazing stuff. 102 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:19,480 Speaker 1: Then I was about to say I didn't see any 103 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:21,279 Speaker 1: of that show. But I was about to say, except 104 00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:24,680 Speaker 1: he was no singer like Jerry Orbach. But we might 105 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:27,599 Speaker 1: be wrong again, he could be. I really walked past 106 00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:32,200 Speaker 1: that one. I guess so. Um So, the diplomats were 107 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:34,600 Speaker 1: being seemed to be affected at their houses and then 108 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:38,159 Speaker 1: there were two hotels in Havana that um that these 109 00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:43,600 Speaker 1: these symptoms started their onset on. So again that was 110 00:06:43,680 --> 00:06:48,839 Speaker 1: that was basically like the first um investigation the FBI. 111 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:51,159 Speaker 1: The FBI conducted it was just like I don't I 112 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:54,240 Speaker 1: don't know, but clearly it was an attack. You know, 113 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:58,080 Speaker 1: it's it's localized to diplomats and their families. It's in Havannah. 114 00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:02,280 Speaker 1: It's not happening anywhere else for now. Um So, some 115 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:04,039 Speaker 1: sort of attack, we just don't know what it was. 116 00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:07,600 Speaker 1: That was the first investigation, and so the State Department 117 00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:11,520 Speaker 1: said let's take a little deeper. Yeah, I mean, they 118 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:14,240 Speaker 1: kind of kept it quiet for a little while I 119 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:17,520 Speaker 1: think the media eventually got wind of what they were 120 00:07:17,560 --> 00:07:21,960 Speaker 1: calling a sonic attack, and then uh, the former president 121 00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 1: administration presidential administration, UM, as things were starting to I 122 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:29,840 Speaker 1: guess thaw a little bit, said you know what, you 123 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 1: guys are out of here and kicked out to Cuban 124 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:36,200 Speaker 1: diplomats UM, kind of as payback basically when Cuba the 125 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:38,320 Speaker 1: whole time was going, we didn't do this, we don't 126 00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:41,480 Speaker 1: know what you're talking about. Uh, And as we'll see later, 127 00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:46,600 Speaker 1: they um supposedly even investigated and tried to help investigate. Yeah. Yeah, 128 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:49,920 Speaker 1: that was the one of the longstanding things that Cubans 129 00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:52,720 Speaker 1: have said basically from the outset is twofold one. They 130 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:55,600 Speaker 1: had nothing to do with it, knew nothing about it, 131 00:07:55,880 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 1: and that they would take something like that very seriously. 132 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:02,280 Speaker 1: And then too they seemed to suspect that, um, this 133 00:08:02,440 --> 00:08:07,360 Speaker 1: eventually snowballed into an easy way to cut ties again 134 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:10,440 Speaker 1: with Cuba, that that was kind of something that was 135 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:13,600 Speaker 1: driving this narrative as well. Part of the problem also 136 00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:16,120 Speaker 1: is you know, like you said, the State's Department was 137 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:19,400 Speaker 1: keeping this secret, not just from the American public. Congress 138 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:22,679 Speaker 1: hadn't even heard about this, and everyone found out about 139 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:25,840 Speaker 1: the same time. UM that when the media started reporting 140 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:28,720 Speaker 1: on it, Congress found out about it, and apparently Marco 141 00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:33,280 Speaker 1: Rubio latched onto this because he's of Cuban ancestry. I'm 142 00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:35,760 Speaker 1: not sure he is or his parents are from Cuba, 143 00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:38,959 Speaker 1: but he hates the Castro regime, and so this was 144 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:41,600 Speaker 1: a big thing for him to kind of clamp onto 145 00:08:41,640 --> 00:08:45,360 Speaker 1: and really kind of enrage his base, um, the Cuban 146 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:50,360 Speaker 1: expatriate community in in Miami, in South Florida. UM. And he, 147 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:52,680 Speaker 1: out of the gate, I think, even released a press 148 00:08:52,679 --> 00:08:55,360 Speaker 1: release referring to this as a sonic attack, like really 149 00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:58,000 Speaker 1: kind of taking whatever the FBI had surmise and just 150 00:08:58,080 --> 00:09:00,640 Speaker 1: basically saying this is this is what happened. We just 151 00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:03,160 Speaker 1: haven't figured out how, but it was an attack. And 152 00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:08,079 Speaker 1: that really set the paradigm moving forward for basically everybody 153 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:13,800 Speaker 1: except for thankfully large swaths of the scientific community. Yeah. 154 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:18,079 Speaker 1: So they commissioned the National Academy of Science to to 155 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:22,160 Speaker 1: go undergo an investigation in twenty nineteen, and even by 156 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:26,960 Speaker 1: that time, people that understood things like acoustic or possible 157 00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:31,400 Speaker 1: acoustic attacks or just acoustics basically said this wasn't some 158 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:34,280 Speaker 1: kind of a sonic attack. It's you know, it is 159 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 1: possible that you can focus a sound beam to an area, 160 00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:41,840 Speaker 1: but you would have to truck in some equipment that's 161 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:44,680 Speaker 1: so big the FBI would have found it. Uh. And 162 00:09:44,760 --> 00:09:46,839 Speaker 1: even if they managed to do that and get away 163 00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:50,040 Speaker 1: with it, um, there were so many different symptoms going 164 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:53,040 Speaker 1: on with these people. It can't all be explained away 165 00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:57,360 Speaker 1: by an acoustic attack. And let's say that even happened, 166 00:09:57,800 --> 00:10:01,160 Speaker 1: it definitely wouldn't cause brain damage, Like the worst acoustic 167 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:04,680 Speaker 1: attack wouldn't cause somebody brain damage. No, So really there's 168 00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:07,280 Speaker 1: two ways. Because here's the other thing, like people said 169 00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:09,800 Speaker 1: they heard a weird sound or whatever, but it wasn't 170 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:13,840 Speaker 1: necessarily some like they were clearly being attacked by the sound. 171 00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:16,520 Speaker 1: That wasn't what they reported. They just some of them 172 00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:18,160 Speaker 1: said I heard a weird sound first, and then all 173 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:20,560 Speaker 1: of a sudden, I have these weird symptoms. That's, you know, 174 00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:23,360 Speaker 1: what gave rise to the sonic attack theory. But there's 175 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:27,080 Speaker 1: basically two ways to attack people with sound, especially sound 176 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:30,160 Speaker 1: they can't hear. It's either below our threshold of hearing, 177 00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:34,880 Speaker 1: which is infrasound. What what I was trying to make 178 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:37,440 Speaker 1: a yoko on no joke, but right, that's the third 179 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:41,800 Speaker 1: route that she combines the two. It's a sound um 180 00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:46,120 Speaker 1: infrasound is below our threshold, below twenty hurts, right, and 181 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:49,679 Speaker 1: you actually can cause things like vertigo in somebody or 182 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:53,760 Speaker 1: vomiting um loss of bowel control if you hit somebody 183 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:58,840 Speaker 1: with a loud enough infrasound blast. But like you said, yeah, 184 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:01,600 Speaker 1: you can make someone poop their pants with infrasound, but 185 00:11:01,679 --> 00:11:04,080 Speaker 1: you would have to basically, like you said, truck in 186 00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:08,440 Speaker 1: just this huge rack of sub waffers and shoot it 187 00:11:08,679 --> 00:11:11,920 Speaker 1: right at somebody to make them lose control of their bowels. 188 00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:14,080 Speaker 1: Like it would be very obvious that that this is 189 00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:17,559 Speaker 1: being done. You can't use as as an excuse moving 190 00:11:17,559 --> 00:11:22,160 Speaker 1: forward anyway, Oh I still will, Okay, ultrasound above our 191 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:26,839 Speaker 1: threshold of hearing or twenty killer hurts and above you um, 192 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:29,960 Speaker 1: you there is stuff on the market that you can 193 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:33,080 Speaker 1: you can actually you know, direct at somebody a beam 194 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:37,080 Speaker 1: of ultrasound and and you know, hurt their hearing, but 195 00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:39,720 Speaker 1: you're not going to cause vertigo or anything like that. 196 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:43,400 Speaker 1: And to really like cause major symptoms or something approaching 197 00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:46,480 Speaker 1: a concussion or traumatic brain injury, which some of these 198 00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:49,960 Speaker 1: people were diagnosed with UM. There was a scientist who said, 199 00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:53,640 Speaker 1: I think his name is Joseph Pompey's a psychoacoustics expert, 200 00:11:53,679 --> 00:11:56,720 Speaker 1: which is awesome. He said that you would basically have 201 00:11:56,880 --> 00:12:01,480 Speaker 1: to dip your head in a pool line with UM 202 00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:07,280 Speaker 1: ultrasound ultrasonic transducers UM to to get like actual brain 203 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:11,400 Speaker 1: damage from that. So that didn't happen in anybody. UM. 204 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:14,640 Speaker 1: So again they said sonic attack, but it must have 205 00:12:14,679 --> 00:12:18,160 Speaker 1: been some sort of exotic weapon that even the CIA 206 00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:21,600 Speaker 1: isn't aware of. All right, I think good time for 207 00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:25,080 Speaker 1: a break. Yes, I agree, go stick our head in 208 00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:28,120 Speaker 1: a in a pool of ultrasonic transducers. I can't wait 209 00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:54,960 Speaker 1: to see what happens and boot my pants. All right, great, okay, Chuck. 210 00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:57,760 Speaker 1: So you said that the State Department sicked the National 211 00:12:57,800 --> 00:13:01,920 Speaker 1: Academy of Sciences on the Savannason thing, right, Yeah, Like 212 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:04,680 Speaker 1: everyone at this point is saying it's not a sonic attack. 213 00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:10,320 Speaker 1: So they started focusing on potential viral attack, UM, pesticide 214 00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:13,400 Speaker 1: poisoning because this is when Zeka was a thing, and 215 00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:17,880 Speaker 1: Zeca fumigation was going on. UM either microwaves, which is interesting, 216 00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:21,560 Speaker 1: and then our favorite frankly one of our favorite topics 217 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:24,760 Speaker 1: was mass hysteria. Yeah, we did. Um, we've talked about 218 00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:26,440 Speaker 1: it twice. At least. We did a short stuff on 219 00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:30,240 Speaker 1: Gloria Ramirez, remember her, and then we also did a 220 00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:33,360 Speaker 1: full length episode some really interesting Cases of mass hysteria 221 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:36,520 Speaker 1: from two thousand sixteen. Yeah, so put a pin in 222 00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:40,679 Speaker 1: that um n AS is doing their study. They were, 223 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:42,400 Speaker 1: you know, they were sort of behind the eight ball 224 00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:46,600 Speaker 1: a little bit because, um, by this point things had 225 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:49,360 Speaker 1: already progressed. You know, they were at disadvantage in a 226 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:53,000 Speaker 1: lot of ways. This was after the fact. Um they 227 00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:56,280 Speaker 1: didn't know like these doctors who were who were treating 228 00:13:56,280 --> 00:13:59,280 Speaker 1: these people, they didn't know they were investigating a mystery. 229 00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:04,040 Speaker 1: They were treating people for a medical issue. So your 230 00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:07,320 Speaker 1: approach to a situation like that is a lot different 231 00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:10,560 Speaker 1: if you're not investigating. Like, no one is back there saying, hey, 232 00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:13,040 Speaker 1: find out what weird thing happened to these people. They 233 00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:15,880 Speaker 1: were just like treating tentatives and nausea and stuff like. Yeah, 234 00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:17,680 Speaker 1: that seems to be a really big ball drop on 235 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:21,400 Speaker 1: the part of the State Department and a particular here. Yeah, 236 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:25,240 Speaker 1: in particular the Cuban Bureau or Havannah Bureau. There wasn't 237 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:28,720 Speaker 1: anybody at the top saying, hey, there's something clearly going 238 00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:31,200 Speaker 1: on here. All of these people when you go to 239 00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:34,760 Speaker 1: this one particular doctor and have the doctor this one 240 00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:38,640 Speaker 1: medical center, somebody looking at you know, looking for all 241 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:42,840 Speaker 1: these symptoms and documenting this. They were just being treated individually. Finally, 242 00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:46,560 Speaker 1: at one point they did kind of bring everybody together 243 00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:50,760 Speaker 1: and have a meeting um. But but before that, there 244 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:52,760 Speaker 1: was just a lot of treatment going on. It wasn't 245 00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:55,880 Speaker 1: being documented properly. So the n AS just right out 246 00:14:55,880 --> 00:14:57,520 Speaker 1: of the gate, was like, this is what we're working 247 00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:00,640 Speaker 1: with for real. Yeah, I mean they didn't even have 248 00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:04,200 Speaker 1: stuff like original blood samples for when these people got sick. 249 00:15:04,520 --> 00:15:07,280 Speaker 1: There was a lot of time that passed, so they 250 00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:09,880 Speaker 1: just they really had no way to tell anything. They 251 00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:12,840 Speaker 1: had incomplete data to begin with. Uh. And then of 252 00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:18,000 Speaker 1: course you're dealing with Cuba, so you're not getting I mean, 253 00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:21,080 Speaker 1: you know, they're investigating some stuff, but it's not like 254 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 1: if this happened to Canada and we were really sharing 255 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:26,280 Speaker 1: information like that. Well, from what I read, the Cubans 256 00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:28,960 Speaker 1: are saying like we were totally willing to collaborate. The 257 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:33,720 Speaker 1: State Department refused to let the the n AS talk 258 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:38,720 Speaker 1: to us. They couldn't. They couldn't accept our data. They couldn't. Um, yeah, 259 00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:41,960 Speaker 1: I guess the Cubans had conducted neighborhood surveys, had done 260 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:45,720 Speaker 1: its own investigation, and the n AS was barred from 261 00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:48,680 Speaker 1: using any of that data. And then one other thing 262 00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:51,880 Speaker 1: that hamstrung them right out of the gate was, um, 263 00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:56,320 Speaker 1: the medical files. These are medical files of diplomats and 264 00:15:56,360 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 1: in some cases CIA agents. So not only is there 265 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:03,800 Speaker 1: like hippa stuff going on, um, like hippo protection, so 266 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:05,680 Speaker 1: that there are things have to be redacted, there's like 267 00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:08,360 Speaker 1: national security stuff too, and you know, like the State 268 00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:13,240 Speaker 1: Department is very you know, redaction happy, um when it 269 00:16:13,280 --> 00:16:15,920 Speaker 1: comes to stuff like that. So they were basically handed 270 00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:19,520 Speaker 1: medical files that had huge black bars everywhere over possibly 271 00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:23,000 Speaker 1: important information. So you put all this stuff together and 272 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:28,240 Speaker 1: the National Academy of Sciences cannot possibly arrive at a 273 00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:33,320 Speaker 1: clear picture of the problem, the symptoms, when, what happened, when, 274 00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:36,840 Speaker 1: who was near whom, at what point, um, And so 275 00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:41,800 Speaker 1: they can't they can't possibly map produce an epidemiological map. 276 00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:44,600 Speaker 1: So whatever they come up with is going to be flawed. 277 00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:48,560 Speaker 1: And they realized this from you know, from the get go. Yeah, 278 00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:51,040 Speaker 1: So what they ended up coming up with, Um, the 279 00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:53,000 Speaker 1: n A S said, you know what, it was a 280 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:58,320 Speaker 1: directed pulse radio frequency energy and we think that's the 281 00:16:58,360 --> 00:17:02,640 Speaker 1: most likely cause. A couple of keywords, they're directed and pulsed, 282 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:07,680 Speaker 1: means someone did this. It was a very specific, intentional attack. 283 00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:10,760 Speaker 1: It wasn't just some random thing that happened because of 284 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:14,199 Speaker 1: micro waves or cell phone towers or anything like that. Like, 285 00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:18,080 Speaker 1: it was a purposeful thing. And uh, they said, you know, 286 00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:20,239 Speaker 1: one of the reasons that we think it might be 287 00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:23,720 Speaker 1: this is this thing called the Fry Effect f R 288 00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:28,080 Speaker 1: E Y nothing to do with the deceased former Eagle 289 00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:36,080 Speaker 1: Glenn Fry. Oh the heat is on, haven't I've told 290 00:17:36,119 --> 00:17:38,760 Speaker 1: you about this before. There's a sarad Live sketch featuring 291 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:42,359 Speaker 1: Ben Stiller I don't remember. He sees Glenn Fry, who's 292 00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:46,960 Speaker 1: actually Will Ferrell, our colleague and co worker um as 293 00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:50,080 Speaker 1: Glenn Fry at a club and he's like, I'm gonna 294 00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:53,280 Speaker 1: go I'm gonna seduce Glenn Fry to like his friends, 295 00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:55,960 Speaker 1: And he goes over and he actually is successful, but 296 00:17:56,119 --> 00:17:59,200 Speaker 1: to his own detriment because Glenn Fry makes him eat 297 00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:01,440 Speaker 1: out of a dog hole and keeps them on the chain. 298 00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:06,000 Speaker 1: And this is wild, like just crazy sex that's going on, 299 00:18:06,119 --> 00:18:09,320 Speaker 1: and the guy like really regrets having seduced Glen fry 300 00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:12,160 Speaker 1: But it's they refer to the heat as on as 301 00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:18,040 Speaker 1: the h is. Oh, it's really I have It is 302 00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:23,760 Speaker 1: impossible that I have not mentioned it before. So when 303 00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:27,080 Speaker 1: the words Glenn Fryer uttered, that's the first thing. You yes, 304 00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:30,880 Speaker 1: pretty much every time. Oh, I have another Glen fry story, 305 00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:32,760 Speaker 1: if you know, if you want to hear it, I 306 00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:34,959 Speaker 1: got all the time in the world. So you and 307 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:40,000 Speaker 1: I were traveling and um in our car and they're 308 00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:44,320 Speaker 1: they're like, this Eagle song was on, and the one 309 00:18:44,359 --> 00:18:48,920 Speaker 1: about the wheels driving you crazy, Keep take it easy. 310 00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:52,440 Speaker 1: And I hate the Eagles to begin with, from start 311 00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:55,399 Speaker 1: to finish. I hate their entire catalog, every every moment 312 00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:58,200 Speaker 1: of it. That song in particular is one of the 313 00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:02,200 Speaker 1: ones I really hate. And um, we have a pause 314 00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:06,320 Speaker 1: button on our radio and so I paused it because 315 00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:09,680 Speaker 1: this is live radio, and um, I I'm paus it, 316 00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:12,920 Speaker 1: and you know there's the song still. I'm like, man, 317 00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:15,320 Speaker 1: it's so this is a really long song. We do 318 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:18,800 Speaker 1: this like five times before I like realized that our 319 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:22,600 Speaker 1: radio can actually pause live radio and that we're not 320 00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:26,879 Speaker 1: like in some new concentric circle. Right. There was a 321 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:28,719 Speaker 1: moment there were like did we die or is this 322 00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:31,560 Speaker 1: is this? Are we in purgatory? Because this is awful? 323 00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:37,040 Speaker 1: That's really funny. Uh. Well, I am back loving the 324 00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:39,640 Speaker 1: Eagles after many years of not and so I wanted 325 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:44,879 Speaker 1: to thank listener Clayton Jaynes, who was invited me and 326 00:19:45,119 --> 00:19:47,280 Speaker 1: Emily to the Eagles concert last time they came to 327 00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:51,159 Speaker 1: Atlanta and I got to go backstage there and stand 328 00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:53,840 Speaker 1: on the stage of Philips Arena and like touched on 329 00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:56,800 Speaker 1: Henley's drum kid and look at Joe Ash's and Glenn 330 00:19:56,800 --> 00:20:00,320 Speaker 1: Fries guitars that his son now plays in his absence. Yeah, 331 00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:03,080 Speaker 1: I think I think he told us about that one. 332 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:08,000 Speaker 1: It was awesome and I know now why you weren't there. Yeah. Yeah, 333 00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:09,840 Speaker 1: But Clayton is a good guy. He does he does 334 00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:11,680 Speaker 1: other bands, like I think he works with Kiss a lot, 335 00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:14,200 Speaker 1: so you probably enjoyed that. I would definitely go see 336 00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:17,200 Speaker 1: Kiss for sure. Yeah, for sure. So if Clayton's listening, 337 00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:20,160 Speaker 1: we want to go to the I want to meet 338 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:23,080 Speaker 1: those guys. Okay, they scare me. Still. There was another 339 00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:25,879 Speaker 1: guy named Josh who's a cool guy I've lost touch with, 340 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:28,359 Speaker 1: but he used to invite us to the New Kids 341 00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:32,840 Speaker 1: shows because he was like, he was like a production designer. 342 00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:35,600 Speaker 1: He's like, it's it's like you're talking about with Clayton. 343 00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:37,240 Speaker 1: He doesn't just work with the New Kids, but he's 344 00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:39,920 Speaker 1: like this in demand production designer. But one of the 345 00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:42,479 Speaker 1: shows that he's done for multiple years in a row 346 00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:45,000 Speaker 1: is New Kids. And he kept inviting as to the 347 00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:48,360 Speaker 1: New Kids show. And not not because I didn't want 348 00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:49,679 Speaker 1: to go through the New Kids, but there was no 349 00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:52,160 Speaker 1: I couldn't go to the New Kids every time. So 350 00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:54,560 Speaker 1: but I turned out we turned out to be friends. 351 00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:56,440 Speaker 1: So he's cool. Dude I haven't heard from in a while. 352 00:20:56,520 --> 00:21:00,800 Speaker 1: So I guess if huch because we want to go. 353 00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:02,639 Speaker 1: That's the first show I want to see when this 354 00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:09,440 Speaker 1: whole thing? Oh yeah, then kiss? Uh So the fry effect, boy, 355 00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:12,959 Speaker 1: that was a good long segway or not segwe a tangent? 356 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:18,560 Speaker 1: What do we call those tangents? Irritations? It's the life 357 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:22,600 Speaker 1: flood of the show. The fry effect basically is when 358 00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:25,840 Speaker 1: pulse microwaves directed at a target can make a clicking 359 00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:29,840 Speaker 1: sound in the target's ears, and only the person can 360 00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:31,919 Speaker 1: hear that sound. So they kind of go back to 361 00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:34,560 Speaker 1: those UM. I don't know how many people, but some 362 00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:37,119 Speaker 1: of the people said they did hear a clicking sound 363 00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:39,760 Speaker 1: before all this stuff happened, so they kind of were like, 364 00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:42,359 Speaker 1: all right, it's the fry effect. So here's the problem 365 00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:46,639 Speaker 1: with that. At this point, the the National Academy of 366 00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:51,320 Speaker 1: Sciences there, the people the group they am paneled UM 367 00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:54,600 Speaker 1: are just now just ticking off the scientific community because 368 00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:57,960 Speaker 1: they're like, oh, there's this one there's this one quality 369 00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:01,360 Speaker 1: that can happen from this one weird random thing. That's 370 00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:04,200 Speaker 1: probably what it is. We'll just completely ignore everything else 371 00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:07,919 Speaker 1: in favor of that one little piece of information. And 372 00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:10,399 Speaker 1: so there was It's really kind of interesting if you 373 00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:14,160 Speaker 1: read articles on on the Havana syndrome, there's a lot 374 00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:17,000 Speaker 1: of cattiness going on, like you can get a scientist 375 00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:20,679 Speaker 1: to call somebody else basically a clown um with this stuff. 376 00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:23,679 Speaker 1: It's really interesting to read a lot of like flame 377 00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:27,560 Speaker 1: war stuff. But the problem with the fry effect, well, 378 00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:31,400 Speaker 1: there's multiple problems. One, uh, they recorded this sound. There's 379 00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:34,360 Speaker 1: a recording of it out that the AP leaked um 380 00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:38,480 Speaker 1: that you can hear, which would discount the fry effect 381 00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:42,280 Speaker 1: because only the person being targeted by microwaves. Here's the clicking. 382 00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:45,160 Speaker 1: That's a big problem. The other thing is that other 383 00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:50,679 Speaker 1: acoustic or microwave experts say, to produce that clicking in 384 00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:54,000 Speaker 1: the person's ears, you would cook them to death. Like that, 385 00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:56,200 Speaker 1: The the amount of energy it would take to make 386 00:22:56,240 --> 00:23:00,400 Speaker 1: that fry effect happen would kill the person. It wouldn't 387 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:03,080 Speaker 1: just you know, create the clicking in their ears. But 388 00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:05,400 Speaker 1: that's kind of one of the things that they settled 389 00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:09,800 Speaker 1: on UM as a potential explanation. Well, the State Department 390 00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:12,480 Speaker 1: was like, sounds good to me. Yeah, and I mean 391 00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:15,720 Speaker 1: the the the n A yes said like, we're considering 392 00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:18,359 Speaker 1: all these other things, this is what we think is 393 00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:23,920 Speaker 1: the most plausible, which is actually really the least plausible. Yeah, 394 00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:26,560 Speaker 1: And you know, some of the people in the flame 395 00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:29,520 Speaker 1: War were like why did they like they have these 396 00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:34,119 Speaker 1: medical experts basically and neurology experts. What you need if 397 00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:36,880 Speaker 1: you're going to investigate something like this is a lot 398 00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:40,280 Speaker 1: of different kinds of experts. You need, some acoustic experts 399 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:43,320 Speaker 1: you need. They like apparently didn't even engage acoustic experts 400 00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:47,480 Speaker 1: talking about this acoustic stuff, and they were like, you 401 00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:50,359 Speaker 1: need a multidisciplinary team in here, in a lot of 402 00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:53,040 Speaker 1: different fields if you're going to investigate something like this, 403 00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:55,040 Speaker 1: and they just never did. Yeah. And one of the 404 00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:59,840 Speaker 1: interpretations I saw was that again they were working backward 405 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:05,960 Speaker 1: from the Rubio FBI State Department um idea theory that 406 00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:09,080 Speaker 1: it was a sonic attack, that that that that was 407 00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:11,239 Speaker 1: what the premise they were really going on, and then 408 00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:13,640 Speaker 1: they were trying to work backward to figure out, you know, 409 00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:17,520 Speaker 1: what the attack was was made of rather than Okay, 410 00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:19,840 Speaker 1: maybe maybe it was in tech, maybe it was also 411 00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:23,879 Speaker 1: natural that kind of stuff for accidental who knows. Yeah, 412 00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:27,440 Speaker 1: I mean there have been other smaller studies, not from 413 00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:30,720 Speaker 1: the US government, Like there was one from Ben Gurion 414 00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:34,520 Speaker 1: University that said, you know what, we studied some of 415 00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:37,400 Speaker 1: these Canadian diplomats and based on their data, we think 416 00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:42,119 Speaker 1: it was pesticide poisoning. But then a lot of people, 417 00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:45,960 Speaker 1: and it seems like the most popular, including the Cuban 418 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:49,119 Speaker 1: Academy of Sciences, take that for what it's worth. But 419 00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:52,280 Speaker 1: a lot of them came back and said, I hate 420 00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:55,240 Speaker 1: to say it, but this was maybe mass hysteria and 421 00:24:55,320 --> 00:25:00,440 Speaker 1: some sort of psychological uh, either illness or mass hysteria episode. Yeah, 422 00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:03,119 Speaker 1: a lot of people agree with him on that. And Cuba, 423 00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:06,480 Speaker 1: by the way, very um like a really good health 424 00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:10,480 Speaker 1: care system and a really solid scientific community. So the 425 00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:14,000 Speaker 1: community Cuban Academy of Science is not like the Banana 426 00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:17,080 Speaker 1: Republic Academy Sciences or anything like that. From what I understand, 427 00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:20,480 Speaker 1: I've never been to Cuba, UM. But the the that 428 00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:25,960 Speaker 1: seems to be the most widely subscribe to theory that 429 00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:30,560 Speaker 1: it was it was what's called conversion disorder, where you 430 00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:35,320 Speaker 1: basically have a psychogenic illness. Somebody um is told what 431 00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:38,920 Speaker 1: the suite of symptoms is, they start developing it themselves 432 00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:41,920 Speaker 1: and then this this tight knit community, it starts to 433 00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:45,200 Speaker 1: seem to spread. And the thing about is called conversion disorder. 434 00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:50,080 Speaker 1: You are you are actually experiencing your body is experiencing 435 00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:52,840 Speaker 1: those symptoms, just like in the placebo effect where you 436 00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:55,440 Speaker 1: take a pill and it actually does make you healthy 437 00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:59,639 Speaker 1: even though it's not an active ingredient, but your body, 438 00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:02,359 Speaker 1: your mind can make your body do things if it 439 00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:05,320 Speaker 1: thinks something is going on. This is the kind of 440 00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:08,119 Speaker 1: like the the mirror image of that where you start 441 00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:11,199 Speaker 1: to suffer because your mind tricks you into thinking that 442 00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:15,040 Speaker 1: you have these symptoms, and it seems to spread because 443 00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:19,320 Speaker 1: people are It's like fear is the contagion in in 444 00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:23,480 Speaker 1: in instance like this. Yeah, and this stuff has happened before. 445 00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:26,720 Speaker 1: I think we talked about at least one of the 446 00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:31,120 Speaker 1: Portugal Yeah, in two thousand six in Portugal. Gosh, we're 447 00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:33,120 Speaker 1: doing this in two thousand six. No, we talked about 448 00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:35,159 Speaker 1: it after, for sure, you know we definitely when I 449 00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:38,480 Speaker 1: was two years before we were born, we were just 450 00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:45,240 Speaker 1: embryonic at that twinkle in um Adam Curry's eye. Uh, yeah, 451 00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:49,160 Speaker 1: two thousand six in Portugal, those UM students in high 452 00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:51,240 Speaker 1: school I think it was high school, right, or was 453 00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:53,880 Speaker 1: it college? I think it was high school. Yeah. There 454 00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:57,679 Speaker 1: were hundreds of students in fourteen different schools, all developed 455 00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:02,200 Speaker 1: these weird symptoms rashes and dizziness and breathing difficulties. Uh. 456 00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:04,880 Speaker 1: And then it happened again in New York in two 457 00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:09,440 Speaker 1: thousand eleven, twelve high school students developed um what they 458 00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:12,879 Speaker 1: thought was Tourette syndrome, or at least symptoms of tourette. 459 00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:15,719 Speaker 1: It sounds like that that that sounds made up. If 460 00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:17,840 Speaker 1: I were a principal, I'd be like, you're you're all 461 00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:24,640 Speaker 1: suspended for even trying this, because all they did was yell. Yeah. 462 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:27,080 Speaker 1: There was another one in Oklahoma in two thousand and 463 00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:29,960 Speaker 1: seventeen that actually was happening about the same time as 464 00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:33,600 Speaker 1: a savannah Um syndrome outbreak, where there was actually the 465 00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:35,880 Speaker 1: kids were paralyzed. They were getting they thought that there 466 00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:39,040 Speaker 1: was some sort of crazy like mold or autoimmune disorder 467 00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:42,840 Speaker 1: something like that, and they were suffering paralysis. And that's 468 00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:47,400 Speaker 1: the thing about conversion disorder is these kids were paralyzed, 469 00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:50,119 Speaker 1: but it was their mind that had paralyzed them because 470 00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:53,439 Speaker 1: they thought they'd been exposed to something that that was 471 00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:55,960 Speaker 1: making them paralyzed, and it turns out it was just 472 00:27:56,840 --> 00:27:58,879 Speaker 1: in their minds. And that's what a lot of people 473 00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:01,520 Speaker 1: think of and a syndrome is that it was just 474 00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:06,760 Speaker 1: a psychogenic illness. Yeah, so I think we should take 475 00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:08,800 Speaker 1: a break, but we'll leave you with this little cliffhanger. 476 00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:14,359 Speaker 1: In this n a S report, they referenced data, uh 477 00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:17,600 Speaker 1: from an earlier report by the CDC that was commissioned 478 00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:22,160 Speaker 1: and completed, and Congress and everyone else looked around and said, 479 00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:25,800 Speaker 1: what's CDC report? What are you talking about. So let's 480 00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:27,960 Speaker 1: take a break and we'll come back and talk about 481 00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:56,320 Speaker 1: this mystery right after this cliffhanger. Okay, Chuck. So everybody's saying, wait, wait, 482 00:28:56,880 --> 00:29:00,640 Speaker 1: this is December when that journal of the American Medical 483 00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:04,360 Speaker 1: Association published the n A S S findings finally mere 484 00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:08,280 Speaker 1: months ago, and in that they like they made mention 485 00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:10,800 Speaker 1: of a CDC report that no one else had heard of, 486 00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:13,880 Speaker 1: and like you said, including Congress. And it turns out 487 00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:17,680 Speaker 1: that the State Department had initially commissioned the CDC um 488 00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:21,800 Speaker 1: shortly after this this outbreak began, um and said, can 489 00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:24,360 Speaker 1: you guys figure out what's going on? And so it 490 00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:27,200 Speaker 1: turns out that there was actually the n A S 491 00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:31,120 Speaker 1: study was the second scientific study done on this and 492 00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:34,360 Speaker 1: the CDC. It didn't really come up with much more 493 00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:37,320 Speaker 1: than the n A Y S did. Yeah. They issued 494 00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:42,680 Speaker 1: an eighteen page report titled and they spent half the 495 00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:44,959 Speaker 1: time trying to figure out how to spell yeah. There 496 00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:48,520 Speaker 1: was a vigorous debate over that. Uh no, it was 497 00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:52,640 Speaker 1: really called Cuba Unexplained Events Investigation, And like you said, 498 00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:55,760 Speaker 1: they kind of came up empty. Two. They were hamstrung 499 00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:58,560 Speaker 1: in a lot of the same ways that the n 500 00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:02,239 Speaker 1: A S was and had a state department that had 501 00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:05,400 Speaker 1: dragged its feet and didn't have the protocols in place 502 00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:09,280 Speaker 1: for the investigation. UM. I think one of the one 503 00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:10,760 Speaker 1: of the only things that kind of came out of 504 00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:13,480 Speaker 1: the CDC report that was helpful, which I guess is 505 00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:15,600 Speaker 1: why the n AS used it in the first place, 506 00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:19,000 Speaker 1: was it did fill in a few of the details 507 00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:23,239 Speaker 1: about what happened to whom. Yeah, so they managed to 508 00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:28,800 Speaker 1: nail down patient zero UM who first reported UM some 509 00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:32,880 Speaker 1: neurological symptoms in mid December of two thousand and sixteen, 510 00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:38,200 Speaker 1: and that was a CIA officer in Havana. UM. That 511 00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:42,000 Speaker 1: CIA officer mentioned their symptoms to a second CIA officer 512 00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:45,880 Speaker 1: who who like a couple of months later, developed the 513 00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:50,360 Speaker 1: same symptoms. See where this is going. And so after 514 00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:54,200 Speaker 1: that time, so apparently Patient zero, the first CIA officer 515 00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:58,440 Speaker 1: who has happened to UM, was really instrumental in like 516 00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:01,160 Speaker 1: spreading the word about this. Was it seems to have 517 00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:05,160 Speaker 1: been very convinced that they had been attacked, that there 518 00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:08,440 Speaker 1: was a sonic attack going on, and that the word 519 00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:12,320 Speaker 1: needed to be spread about this. And so as a result, UM, 520 00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:16,440 Speaker 1: the the I think the Havana UM embassy held a 521 00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:20,360 Speaker 1: meeting and basically said, listen out for weird sounds and 522 00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:23,520 Speaker 1: if you start to get this huge weird collection of symptoms, 523 00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:28,560 Speaker 1: let us know because we're probably under sonic attack. That 524 00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:34,280 Speaker 1: solves that and went back to bed. That's right, and uh, 525 00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:39,520 Speaker 1: maybe not. Coincidentally, a lot of incidents has happened after 526 00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:43,960 Speaker 1: that happened, and UM and at the end they said, 527 00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:47,120 Speaker 1: you know, if you want to go home, right, here's 528 00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:50,080 Speaker 1: here's one way to fast track. Now. Although Cuba think 529 00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:52,200 Speaker 1: it's supposed to be very nice, so maybe they weren't 530 00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:53,760 Speaker 1: trying to get out of there. But in the end, 531 00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:57,560 Speaker 1: ninety five people were seeing for these symptoms. In the 532 00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:00,560 Speaker 1: CDC report, it said that fifteen of those had a 533 00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:04,560 Speaker 1: two stage illness. Uh, first was the noise that we 534 00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:08,120 Speaker 1: talked about and those acute symptoms, and then second a 535 00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:10,280 Speaker 1: few weeks later, a couple of weeks later, they had 536 00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:13,520 Speaker 1: that neurological damage. I think thirty one of the cases, 537 00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:17,760 Speaker 1: where maybe's forty nine were unlikely. And then of those 538 00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:21,320 Speaker 1: fifteen who had that two stage syndrome, while the report 539 00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:23,760 Speaker 1: was issued, there were six of them still getting treated, 540 00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:26,760 Speaker 1: so it wasn't even like their treatment was compared, right, Yeah, 541 00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:29,160 Speaker 1: I mean that's that's the thing, Like whether it's psychogenic 542 00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:33,800 Speaker 1: illness or a sonic attack or you know, fumigation, um 543 00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:38,840 Speaker 1: poisoning from you know, zekea pesticides like there there were 544 00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:42,440 Speaker 1: still people that were still being treated for symptoms for 545 00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:45,880 Speaker 1: over a year. These are nasty symptoms like vertigo is 546 00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:50,360 Speaker 1: nothing to nothing, nothing fun. Were vomiting or dizziness or 547 00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:54,800 Speaker 1: inability to concentrate. Um, there's a lot of terrible stuff 548 00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:59,440 Speaker 1: that that people we're having to deal with. Whatever the um, 549 00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:03,160 Speaker 1: the the reason for the symptoms were, which you know, 550 00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:05,800 Speaker 1: makes a lot of people think like, no, this is 551 00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:08,680 Speaker 1: this is a real thing, and these people were attacked 552 00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:11,040 Speaker 1: and we need to find out what it is. The 553 00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:14,920 Speaker 1: CDC at least said we have no idea, like we 554 00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:18,480 Speaker 1: cannot figure it out. That they said, like and their 555 00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:23,840 Speaker 1: conclusion that they couldn't possibly put forth any kind of explanation. 556 00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:28,480 Speaker 1: They just mainly documented everything, which is certainly a mark 557 00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:31,880 Speaker 1: in the CDC's favor and a mark against the The 558 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:35,040 Speaker 1: n A s that the CDC resisted, you know, saying 559 00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:40,480 Speaker 1: yes it was microwaves and it was probably the Ruskies. Yeah, 560 00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:43,960 Speaker 1: and that all came about you know, after everyone, um, 561 00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:47,719 Speaker 1: a lot of scientists that has rejected the findings. Cuba 562 00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:50,440 Speaker 1: rejected the findings. We told you earlier that they got 563 00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:53,120 Speaker 1: all up in arms and said, hey, listen, we tried 564 00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:56,200 Speaker 1: to help, we take this stuff seriously. Um, we weren't 565 00:33:56,200 --> 00:34:01,160 Speaker 1: a part of this. But uh, in that n AS panel, UM, 566 00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:06,200 Speaker 1: somebody said something about Russia, and you know, obviously Russia 567 00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:10,279 Speaker 1: is in bed with Cuba, and they said, you know what, 568 00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:12,640 Speaker 1: it's maybe it was Russia. We do know that in 569 00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:16,520 Speaker 1: the seventies they were trying to weaponize microwaves. Um. They 570 00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:19,880 Speaker 1: in fact, um, for like three years straight, three and 571 00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:23,960 Speaker 1: a half years, pounded the American embassy in Moscow with microwaves. 572 00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:26,319 Speaker 1: I don't even know if they had an endgame there. 573 00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:28,839 Speaker 1: I think they were just like a let let's see 574 00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:31,560 Speaker 1: what this does. Turn it on. And I don't think 575 00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:33,160 Speaker 1: it really did anything if it went on for three 576 00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:36,200 Speaker 1: and a half years. And apparently, um, of course we'll 577 00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:38,640 Speaker 1: never know because this Russia. But supposedly they kind of 578 00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:40,840 Speaker 1: gave up all that stuff decades ago. Yeah, this is 579 00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:43,840 Speaker 1: the seventies when they were shooting microwaves at the American 580 00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:46,920 Speaker 1: embassy in Moscow. UM, and yeah, as far as anybody 581 00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:51,319 Speaker 1: knows that that technology wasn't pursued any further. So if 582 00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:55,719 Speaker 1: there is any kind of sonic weapon that is concealable, 583 00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:59,440 Speaker 1: that is, that is capable of producing the suite of 584 00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:04,960 Speaker 1: symptom um, it is news to the world. UM. And 585 00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:08,000 Speaker 1: there are people who say, like you know, security experts, 586 00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:11,120 Speaker 1: that kind of group, who say, yeah, it's entirely possible 587 00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:13,960 Speaker 1: that somebody has developed this without the US being aware 588 00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:17,279 Speaker 1: of it. UM. I saw a quote that America tends 589 00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:20,640 Speaker 1: to be very surprised that not that certain things exist, 590 00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:23,879 Speaker 1: but that other people have caught up to America's technology. 591 00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:27,719 Speaker 1: So yeah, um. But at the same time, it's kind 592 00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:32,040 Speaker 1: of like it's suggesting that America or certain quarters of 593 00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:36,480 Speaker 1: America UM, are fully aware that this is possible, which 594 00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:38,960 Speaker 1: is why they're pursuing that sonic attack thing. But they 595 00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:41,799 Speaker 1: can't just be like, it's this, see everybody, We've had 596 00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:44,680 Speaker 1: this for twenty years now. We just didn't know that 597 00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:47,320 Speaker 1: the Cubans had it kind of thing. So the US 598 00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:50,960 Speaker 1: still um seems to be you know, with the expulsion 599 00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:55,720 Speaker 1: of the Cuban to Cuban diplomats, UM is basically saying 600 00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:59,080 Speaker 1: if Cuba doesn't know if they didn't do it, they 601 00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:01,640 Speaker 1: know who did it, and they maybe even let it 602 00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:07,520 Speaker 1: happen because apparently diplomatic residences in Cuba are owned and 603 00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:10,759 Speaker 1: maintained by the Cuban government, so it's not like they 604 00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:13,879 Speaker 1: just had no opportunity to do this kind of thing. 605 00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:16,640 Speaker 1: But Cuba, like you said, it's extremely adamant that they 606 00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:18,960 Speaker 1: had nothing to do with this and that they would 607 00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:23,239 Speaker 1: never let this happen to any accredited UM diplomat in 608 00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:26,720 Speaker 1: their country. And if you step outside of the United States, 609 00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:30,040 Speaker 1: it's really kind of funny because the rest of the 610 00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:32,719 Speaker 1: world is totally fine with Cuba. It's really just the 611 00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:36,600 Speaker 1: United States that's you know, at odds with Cuba, and 612 00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:39,160 Speaker 1: Cuba is cool with everybody else. Like apparently a million 613 00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:43,200 Speaker 1: Canadians go to Cuba every year on on vacation, so 614 00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:46,040 Speaker 1: it's kind of like something that they're not really happy 615 00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:48,640 Speaker 1: about the idea that that if you go to Cuba 616 00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:52,000 Speaker 1: you might suffer this sonic attack. UM that could at 617 00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:55,120 Speaker 1: the very least hurt their tourism industry, if not just 618 00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:59,200 Speaker 1: you know, impinging their you know, how they treat diplomats 619 00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:01,680 Speaker 1: from other country or allow them to be treated it's 620 00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:05,319 Speaker 1: it's a real insult in that respect. Yeah, And I 621 00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:08,200 Speaker 1: think it's also one of the end results was the 622 00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:11,959 Speaker 1: US government and it was kind of exposed a little 623 00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:14,840 Speaker 1: bit of dragging their feet and not being coordinated and 624 00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:17,239 Speaker 1: not maybe having their ducks in a row. And I 625 00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:20,799 Speaker 1: think if anything like this were to happen again, I 626 00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:23,239 Speaker 1: think they had enough egg on their face to sort 627 00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:25,400 Speaker 1: of get it together to at least sort of be 628 00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:29,640 Speaker 1: coordinated from the get go and have a multidisciplinary investigation 629 00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:33,120 Speaker 1: going on. And this whole thing, like the the big 630 00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:36,879 Speaker 1: argument and push and pull among the scientific communities, still 631 00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:39,759 Speaker 1: very much ongoing. UM. There was a paper published that 632 00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:43,719 Speaker 1: examined some brain scans of some of these diplomats that 633 00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:47,839 Speaker 1: were taken at Penn State, I believe, UM, and these 634 00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:50,600 Speaker 1: the authors of the study concluded that, you know, a 635 00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:53,520 Speaker 1: lot of them showed evidence of trauma. And then other 636 00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:56,759 Speaker 1: scientists responded and said, like, this doesn't show trauma at all. 637 00:37:56,760 --> 00:37:59,280 Speaker 1: That's exactly what you would find from a random sample 638 00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:02,640 Speaker 1: of the population. UM. Other people. Remember, I said that 639 00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:06,600 Speaker 1: they recorded the sound that they heard. UM. Apparently a 640 00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:10,440 Speaker 1: couple of biologists ran that sound through spectral analysis and 641 00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:14,839 Speaker 1: showed that it exactly matches um, a specific kind of 642 00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:19,400 Speaker 1: cricket that's um native to Cuba and the Caribbean. So 643 00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:22,040 Speaker 1: there's just like it's still being hammered out. Like we 644 00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:23,960 Speaker 1: said it the at the beginning, that this is not 645 00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:27,520 Speaker 1: it's not settled. No one has any idea yet exactly 646 00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:31,080 Speaker 1: what it is, and it seems like the most satisfying 647 00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:34,520 Speaker 1: answer would be psychogenic illness. But even still, I mean, 648 00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:39,359 Speaker 1: that doesn't seem to really explain everything necessarily. Yeah, well, 649 00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:43,040 Speaker 1: a pretty good mystery. Still a good mystery. And who 650 00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:46,920 Speaker 1: doesn't love that? Right? I know Glenn Fry I hated. 651 00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:52,040 Speaker 1: I don't care what Clint Fry liked or didn't like. Um. 652 00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:55,600 Speaker 1: If you want to know more about the Havana syndrome, 653 00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:58,960 Speaker 1: go check out the copious amounts of articles about it. 654 00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:01,040 Speaker 1: There's a lot of stuff out there. It's really interesting 655 00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:04,040 Speaker 1: and engrossing stuff. See what you think? Uh? And since 656 00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:05,840 Speaker 1: I said see what you think, it's time for a 657 00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:10,880 Speaker 1: listener mail. When you think about that hs O story, 658 00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:15,400 Speaker 1: do you go the h is boom boom boom boom. 659 00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:20,759 Speaker 1: Oh nope, you know, isn't that from Beverly Hills cop 660 00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:23,960 Speaker 1: I think the heat is on one. Yeah, that was 661 00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:25,759 Speaker 1: the one where he's like hanging off of the back 662 00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:28,319 Speaker 1: of the semi Yeah. Yeah. He did a few of 663 00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:30,760 Speaker 1: those soundtrack e type things, and he was an actor 664 00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:33,280 Speaker 1: on Miami Bodies, which is one of your favorite shows. 665 00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:36,480 Speaker 1: What do you hate Miami Vice? It's fine. I refused 666 00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:40,440 Speaker 1: to watch the episodes with Clem Fry. All right, I'm 667 00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:43,240 Speaker 1: gonna call this just a nice email from a listener 668 00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:45,880 Speaker 1: who was kind of growing up with. Hey, guys, I'm 669 00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:47,880 Speaker 1: writing to say that I first discovered your podcast way 670 00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:51,960 Speaker 1: back in when I was in the seventh grade. It 671 00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:55,319 Speaker 1: just moved away from many of my neighborhood friends in 672 00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:58,000 Speaker 1: your podcast was a source of a source of information 673 00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:01,240 Speaker 1: and comfort during that transition. Having always been a nerd, 674 00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:03,440 Speaker 1: I was immediately hooked on your podcast and have listened 675 00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:06,560 Speaker 1: to it many of my travels for sports teams, college trips, 676 00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:10,560 Speaker 1: and international adventures. In fact, your podcast had a major 677 00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:14,800 Speaker 1: impact in keeping my curiosity alive and well throughout my life. 678 00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:18,280 Speaker 1: I just accepted an offer for grad school in Georgia 679 00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:20,520 Speaker 1: and wanted to write to say that although we have 680 00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:23,160 Speaker 1: never met, you two have positively impacted my life for 681 00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:25,760 Speaker 1: more than the past decade. So thank you for everything. 682 00:40:26,040 --> 00:40:29,239 Speaker 1: I hope you're well. And that is from Abigail. Is 683 00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:32,680 Speaker 1: a fine listener mail. Thanks a lot, Abigail, It's very sweet. 684 00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:37,280 Speaker 1: I love and best of luck in grad school. That's great. Yeah, 685 00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:41,440 Speaker 1: kill it, but not literally, no no no, that's a 686 00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:44,919 Speaker 1: figure speech meaning go do a great job, the best 687 00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:47,520 Speaker 1: you can do, a great job. Okay, Well, if you 688 00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:52,040 Speaker 1: want to get in touch with this, like Abigail, Abidale's 689 00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:58,839 Speaker 1: Abigail's new nickname, not Frank Abignail. No, Abbidale Master fortunerally 690 00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:03,040 Speaker 1: known as Abigail. Yeah, we talked about Frank Abgnail in 691 00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:09,200 Speaker 1: the five Successful Counterfeiters episode. He's number one, wasn't uh 692 00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:12,760 Speaker 1: he was up there for sure. It was good. Well, anyway, 693 00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:15,840 Speaker 1: if you want to get in touch with us, like anybody, 694 00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:21,160 Speaker 1: including Abigdale, Abgdail or Abigail, you can send us an 695 00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:28,880 Speaker 1: email to stuff podcast diheart radio dot com. Stuff you 696 00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:31,400 Speaker 1: Should Know is a production of i Heeart Radio. For 697 00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:34,479 Speaker 1: more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, 698 00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:37,600 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.