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Speaker 1: Boom have no Fear of the Iron Rapperports Stereo podcast

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Speaker 1: is here. Boom have no Fear of the Iron rapp

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Speaker 1: Reports Stereo podcast is here. On today's brand new, banging,

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Speaker 1: museum quality historic Iron Rapports Stereo podcast. He's back the

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Speaker 1: world wide news correspondent of the Iron rapp Reports stereo podcast.

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Speaker 1: Eli Lake from the Free Press. He's down with the

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Speaker 1: Free Press is here to talk about his new podcast,

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Speaker 1: Breaking History. We're talking about Trump. We're talking about concerns

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Speaker 1: in the Middle East. We're talking about concerns regarding Trump's

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Speaker 1: deals with Iran, We're talking about the hostage deal in Israel,

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Speaker 1: and we're talking about his new podcast, Breaking History. Miles

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Speaker 1: Jordane a k. The Pleach Brother's aka the Dust Brothers.

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Speaker 1: Start this puffy off. It's real nice, sticky. Start this

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Speaker 1: puppy to him, real long, but most importantly, start this

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Speaker 1: banging I'm Rapport Stereo podcast off with something real funky.

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Speaker 1: Boom have no fear The Iron rapp Report Stereo podcast

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Speaker 1: is here. Hege have no fear. The I Am Rapaport

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Speaker 1: Stereo podcast is in the place to be one two three,

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Speaker 1: in the Place to be Iron Rapport Stereo podcast is

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Speaker 1: here with the officially unofficial world news correspondent of the

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Speaker 1: Iron rap Port Stereo podcast for years and years and

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Speaker 1: years bringing us so much insight.

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Speaker 2: We're going on a decade, Mike rap.

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Speaker 3: We're going on a decade. You hear him.

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Speaker 1: My man, Eli Lake, the Great Eli Lake is in

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Speaker 1: the place to be. What what a better time, what

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Speaker 1: a more needed time to have Eli Lake back on

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Speaker 1: the podcast. Welcome, my friend, Eli Lake. How are you?

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Speaker 3: My man?

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Speaker 2: Oh? It's great, And I feel like we've been on

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Speaker 2: a similar political journey because I remember some of our

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Speaker 2: first conversations about Trump. We couldn't believe it, we were

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Speaker 2: turned off. And now look at us ten years later,

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Speaker 2: and we're like breathing a sigh of relief that that

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Speaker 2: old bag of bones is no longer the president. So

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Speaker 2: it's like.

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Speaker 1: And also you could breathe a sigh of relief that

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Speaker 1: that old bag of bones isn't president, but also not

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Speaker 1: bow down and be like some sort of sickle fan

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Speaker 1: to Trump. It's like you totally be supportive of Trump

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Speaker 1: and be supportive of this new regime and also hard

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Speaker 1: body karate criticize him, which is the thing that's lost

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Speaker 1: so much, right now, but before we get into a way,

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Speaker 1: I want to ask you, I want to congratulate you

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Speaker 1: on your new podcast which just launched, a Breaking History,

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Speaker 1: which is on the Free Press. Your new podcast where

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Speaker 1: you're gonna be giving a such an important voice.

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Speaker 3: I mean, you're an expert.

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Speaker 1: I think you're fair, you're diligent, you take what you

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Speaker 1: do seriously. But tell me about your new podcast. Tell

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Speaker 1: me about your new podcast, Breaking History.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So the idea behind it is that every episode

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Speaker 2: we look at something that's like a current roiling debate,

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Speaker 2: an issue in the news, and then we try to

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Speaker 2: explain it through an episode from something that happen historically.

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Speaker 2: And the first episode is out Underbreaking History, although I

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Speaker 2: did about eight of these very similar format for honestly,

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Speaker 2: but it's about Trump's inauguration and the fact that he

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Speaker 2: represents a populous challenge to the sort of establishment in

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Speaker 2: the elite, which I think is fair to say. And

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Speaker 2: then we look at the first populis President Andrew Jackson.

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Speaker 2: And there are so many similarities between Trump and Andrew Jackson.

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Speaker 2: Not a perfect parallel, but certainly both of them kind

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Speaker 2: of came to office complaining that the election before had

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Speaker 2: been stolen from them. Jackson believed the eighteen twenty four

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Speaker 2: election was stolen because of what he called the corrupt bargain,

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Speaker 2: because it went to the House of Representatives, was a

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Speaker 2: very weird election. There were four people running ostensibly from

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Speaker 2: the same party, and the Speaker of the House was

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Speaker 2: also a candidate, and he put his votes behind John

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Speaker 2: Quincy Adams, even though Jackson had the most votes. Jackson

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Speaker 2: thought they stole it from me. He called it the

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Speaker 2: corrupt bargain. And then what did Trump have? He had

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Speaker 2: stop the steal, which fueled his base. And we interview

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Speaker 2: people in it that are dropped like block quotes and

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Speaker 2: like an audio essay. So one of the people we

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Speaker 2: had was Steve Bannon. Steve Bannon, it's like an expert

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Speaker 2: on Andrew Jackson. He's obviously was like a big strategist

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Speaker 2: for Trump in twenty sixteen, twenty seventeen. And he also

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Speaker 2: says that listen the fact that he says, like, you know,

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Speaker 2: you and I can disagree. I don't think the twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty election was stolen, but he says the fact that

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Speaker 2: they stole it from us that was a burning, burning

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Speaker 2: desire in our base. You know, that's one of the

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Speaker 2: things that where we were able to you know, march

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Speaker 2: forward and win in twenty twenty four, which is what happened.

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Speaker 2: And then we look at the fact that, like you know,

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Speaker 2: populism can be a good thing in America and it

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Speaker 2: could be a bad thing, and it can be a

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Speaker 2: good thing, Mike Wrap because it's a way to let

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Speaker 2: off steam where countries is founded.

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Speaker 1: Term me populism. Explain that because it's a term that's

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Speaker 1: thrown around and it's like, we know what popular is,

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Speaker 1: but what does it term me when in regards to

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Speaker 1: politics and party.

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Speaker 2: Okay, that's a great question. So populism, I think the

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Speaker 2: best way to say is it's more of a kind

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Speaker 2: of political mood. It's a political grammar, and it basically

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Speaker 2: is any time you have a political movement that is

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Speaker 2: claiming to represent the people, which can mean a lot

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Speaker 2: of things against a kind of you know, nebulous elite.

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Speaker 2: So some times you have populist movements that are against

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Speaker 2: the banks. Certainly Andrew Jackson that was his big issue

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Speaker 2: was getting rid of the Second American National Bank because

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Speaker 2: he thought that concentrated wealth in the hands of plutocrats.

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Speaker 2: In the case of Trump, it's the deep state, or

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Speaker 2: it's the media. It's like this sort of some version

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Speaker 2: of the elite that's screwing over the little guy. And

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Speaker 2: that sentiment is encoded in our country's DNA. That is

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Speaker 2: like the spirit of the Boston Tea Party. That is

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Speaker 2: you'll appreciate when you listen to the episode I say,

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Speaker 2: you know one of you know, an expression of populism

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Speaker 2: in some ways is Dirk Diggler on the set of

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Speaker 2: a Porno and Boogie Knights saying, you know, you're not

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Speaker 2: the fucking king of me, You're not the boss of me.

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Speaker 2: That's populism. It's like it's just this feral defiance. I

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Speaker 2: got it and you get it. So that's it's a spirit.

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Speaker 2: And by the way, populist can be on the left

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Speaker 2: Bernie Sanders. They can also be on the hard right

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Speaker 2: like Fatherler Coglin, who was a terrible anti semi he

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Speaker 2: was also a populist. So you have it runs the

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Speaker 2: gamut across the political spec and a little bit of

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Speaker 2: populism is a really good thing because the elites are

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Speaker 2: usually out of touch. The bureaucrats no longer are like

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Speaker 2: serving the interests of the problem. They were sort of

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Speaker 2: there to solve in the first place, and that I

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Speaker 2: think is a good side of it. So like that

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Speaker 2: Executive Order on DEI Diversity, Equity and Inclusion, that was terrific.

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Speaker 2: I think that was a populist movement. It was a

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Speaker 2: good thing. Populism is really really bad when it embraces

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Speaker 2: conspiracy theories. Populism is really really really bad when it

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Speaker 2: basically like something as complex as the US government or

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Speaker 2: the US economy requires people who are experts, and no

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Speaker 2: one person can know all of that. So if you

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Speaker 2: there's a tendency among populace to distrust institutions, to distrust experts,

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Speaker 2: if you do that too much, you end up making

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Speaker 2: terrible policy decisions. So I say, the analogy I use

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Speaker 2: in my in the episode is, in this sense, it's

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Speaker 2: a little bit like poison. The toxicity is determined by

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Speaker 2: the dose, so if you have too much of it, it

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Speaker 2: can be a really bad thing. But a little bit

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Speaker 2: is like medicine. It's like a little bit is a

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Speaker 2: good way to kind of kick the asses of the

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Speaker 2: you know, desiccated corrupted elites which have really grown out

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Speaker 2: of touch. So we'll have to see what Trump does.

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Speaker 2: I say, he's got a second administration in front of him.

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Speaker 2: But you know, in the case of Andrew Jackson, there

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Speaker 2: were some moments that were really scary. And one of

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Speaker 2: the worst things that he did, and this is in

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Speaker 2: some ways of parallel Trump, is that when the Supreme

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Speaker 2: Court ruled that the Cherokee Nation was exempt from the

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Speaker 2: State of Georgia's law, so they wanted to basically remove

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Speaker 2: them from their land, Jackson ignored the state the Supreme

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Speaker 2: Court and that was a constitutional crisis, probably the biggest

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Speaker 2: crisis in the history at that moment of the young Republic.

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Speaker 2: That was really bad, and eventually he was shamed into

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Speaker 2: putting out a proclamation that acknowledged the Supreme Court as

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Speaker 2: the final word on interpreting the Constitution. But there's a

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Speaker 2: really tenuous period there, and that's that you can see

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Speaker 2: a parallel when Trump, you know, I think it's fine

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Speaker 2: to go to the courts to say this election wasn't

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Speaker 2: on the up and up. You should look at this,

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Speaker 2: But once the courts decide, and the Supreme Court ruled

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Speaker 2: in a couple of these, you have to accept the

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Speaker 2: judgment that's the final word, and he never did. So's

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Speaker 2: you can see a kind of parallel there that sometimes

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Speaker 2: populous leaders believe that because they're representing a kind of

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Speaker 2: popular rage, that they are not restrained by these constitutional

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Speaker 2: limits that we expect all presidents to adhere to. So

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Speaker 2: that's a danger. But again the good news is that,

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Speaker 2: like I think, I don't know, I think it would

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Speaker 2: be very bad to have four more years of like

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Speaker 2: Kamala Harris and the DEI stuff and all this. It's

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Speaker 2: like it was just like so I just felt like

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Speaker 2: that was decline and like we maybe have a chance

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Speaker 2: to get out of it.

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Speaker 3: So I agree.

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Speaker 1: I agree, and you know, the entire Democratic Party and

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Speaker 1: I'll never identify as a Democrat or a Republican.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I will never.

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Speaker 1: But I think in regards to the Democratic Party, if

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Speaker 1: you know they're doing some real soul searching, they need

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Speaker 1: to look at like I equate it to sports. It's like,

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Speaker 1: why did we lose? We lost because we're not playing

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Speaker 1: good defense. We lost because of turnovers. We lost because

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Speaker 1: we're running the ball too many times on third down.

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Speaker 1: It's like, you know, you have to do some soul

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Speaker 1: searching and self evaluation. And I think, you know, people

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Speaker 1: like AOC who's out there fucking just banging her fucking

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Speaker 1: head against the cement, doing the same old bullshit. You're

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Speaker 1: not doing anything good for your party. You think you are,

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Speaker 1: you think you are, but you need to make changes.

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Speaker 1: I believe in changes. I believe in pivots. I believe

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Speaker 1: in self evaluation. I believe in growth. I believe in

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Speaker 1: in moving, ebbing, flowing. I believe, you know, I look

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Speaker 1: at ourselves like trees. It's like you're a tree. Your

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Speaker 1: roots are playing it in the ground, and you're gonna

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Speaker 1: grow a branch here, and you might think that's the

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Speaker 1: greatest branch in the world, and then you might think

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Speaker 1: this is a piece of shit.

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Speaker 3: You leave it, you let it rot and fall off.

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Speaker 1: It's like you have to ebb, flow and evolve, not

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Speaker 1: just in life, but certainly in politics. Tell me about

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Speaker 1: the Free Press because one of my people that I

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Speaker 1: really is really influenced me as Barry Weiss. Because at first,

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Speaker 1: at first I thought Barry Weiss was this, you know,

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Speaker 1: when I first was hearing her story and I was

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Speaker 1: uninformed about her, I was like, oh, she's this, you know,

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Speaker 1: crazy right wing and you know, da da, And then

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Speaker 1: I started listening to her and hearing her story, and

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Speaker 1: I was like, I fucking and she's one of the

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Speaker 1: people when I look back that sort of influenced me,

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Speaker 1: her and her wife, Nellie Bowles, you know, that influenced me,

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Speaker 1: you know, to sort of go, wait, wait a second.

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Speaker 3: This is not a giraffe.

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Speaker 1: You're telling me this is a draft, but I'm seeing

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Speaker 1: a little puppy, or you're telling me the sky is green,

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Speaker 1: but I know it's not green, and just sort of

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Speaker 1: sort of questioning things. So so just tell me about

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Speaker 1: this sort of what it's like working for the Free

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Speaker 1: Press now when it's become almost a mainstream brand. I

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Speaker 1: don't think it's fully mainstream, and I don't think I'll

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Speaker 1: ever be fully mainstream, but I think it's you know,

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Speaker 1: become like a really powerful, important brand of news and media.

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Speaker 2: Well, I agree, it's been. We've been growing like a

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Speaker 2: rocket ship. It's incredible. I've known Barry for more than

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Speaker 2: twenty years now, and I mean I knew her when

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Speaker 2: she was at Columbia making the case against you know,

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Speaker 2: that first generation of Columbia students were like, wait a second,

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Speaker 2: why is the faculty so crazy? Antie Israel and she

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Speaker 2: was a great leader in that and she is a

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Speaker 2: brilliant journalist and a really great editor, one of the

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Speaker 2: best editors I've ever worked with. Anelli is just a delight.

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Speaker 2: I mean, she's a wonderful person. And the interesting thing

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Speaker 2: is that Barry and Nelly, a lesbian couple right who

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Speaker 2: you know, like are pretty They were like the liberals

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Speaker 2: of two thousand and three, you know what I mean,

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Speaker 2: Like that would have been like the normy liberal, you know,

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Speaker 2: And it tells us something about where the has gone

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Speaker 2: that they are now pariahs in a certain group, although

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Speaker 2: many people, I mean, I see that that order of

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Speaker 2: the people who tormented her in the New York Times slack.

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Speaker 2: That's that world is crumbling before our eyes. But I

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Speaker 2: would say that the free press is trying in some

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Speaker 2: ways to be like the like we're trying to kind

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Speaker 2: of restore in some ways what the what the media

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Speaker 2: used to be, which is a place you could trust,

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Speaker 2: that had diversity of opinion, that was lively and didn't

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Speaker 2: we don't take I mean, we take ourselves seriously when

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Speaker 2: it comes to getting the news and you know, pursuing

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Speaker 2: the truth, but we are not going to take ourselves

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Speaker 2: seriously in the way like a New York Times columnist

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Speaker 2: feels like you're reading somebody, like, you know, dictating from

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Speaker 2: Mount Olympus or something. And so in some ways, I

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Speaker 2: think the free press is there was a great way

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Speaker 2: to describe it. We're not the mainstream, but we are

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Speaker 2: like the for all the people who have been alienated

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Speaker 2: by the mainstream, where we hopefully want to be like

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Speaker 2: kind of their paper of record or their magazine where

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Speaker 2: they can read and think through, you know, the opinions

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Speaker 2: of the day. And in that respect, I think we're succeeding,

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Speaker 2: you know, beyond you know, our wildest dreams. In some ways,

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Speaker 2: we are expanding. You know. It seems like every other

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Speaker 2: week we're hiring incredible new talent and it's just really

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Speaker 2: exciting to be a part of it. It's great to

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Speaker 2: do it. And Barry is it kind of the perfect

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Speaker 2: She reminds me, I had the great privilege, you know,

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Speaker 2: almost twenty years ago now to work at The Daily

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Speaker 2: Beast when that was getting started, and that was Tina

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Speaker 2: Brown's project, and Tina Brown's a legendary editor in the business,

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Speaker 2: and she and Barry really reminds me in some ways

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Speaker 2: of like Tina Brown in her prime. So in that respect,

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Speaker 2: I think it's going out nothing but blue sky's ahead.

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Speaker 2: It's going to be It's it's really terrific. Thank you

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Speaker 2: for asking about it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I'm fascinated by it. And you know,

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Speaker 1: it's funny, I've never met her.

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Speaker 3: You know, we've committed.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm on that. Let me make sure that we

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Speaker 2: do that. Okay, that's good.

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Speaker 1: She's been a big influence to me, you know, her

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Speaker 1: point of view and so much of the free press

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Speaker 1: and the podcast and the stories and the reading. It

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Speaker 1: really has been a big an influence to me and

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Speaker 1: put the battery in my back, and and the information

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Speaker 1: in regards to Trump, in regards to the Middle East,

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Speaker 1: because you have always broken down the Middle East regarding Trump.

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Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, I know you're not going to say

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Speaker 3: you're an expert, but is that you're well?

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Speaker 2: I like, okay, so so I always say, as a journalist,

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Speaker 2: I have the luxury of not being an expert. So

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Speaker 2: I always try to like, so, what the fuck am

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Speaker 2: I talking to you?

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Speaker 3: For me?

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Speaker 2: What I mean?

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Speaker 3: For years?

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Speaker 2: Like what I mean the experts. The experts usually talk

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Speaker 2: to themselves and they get sucked into they're gonna say, gotcha,

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Speaker 2: my job in some ways is I've been writing about

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Speaker 2: the Middle for god twenty five years now, so I

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Speaker 2: mean I know a lot about it, but I always

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Speaker 2: try to kind of remind myself what I don't know

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Speaker 2: and I know, but like so I try to be

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Speaker 2: humble about it. But I would say that when it

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Speaker 2: comes to arm of the Middle East, I'm worried at

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Speaker 2: this point.

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Speaker 3: Wow, we just got it, we just started.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm worried because I went I went into Okay,

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Speaker 2: So the most important thing in the Middle East right

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Speaker 2: now is that the Israelis have proven that the Iranians

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Speaker 2: are really vulnerable in this moment, and that window is

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Speaker 2: going to go away at some point. So two things

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Speaker 2: for the listeners, uh to understand. One, the Iranian they

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Speaker 2: called it the axis of Resistance. I call it the

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Speaker 2: axis of scumbags. Uh. You can call it whatever you want.

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Speaker 2: But they had a network of these proxy terrorist groups

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Speaker 2: like Hesbelah, like the Syrian state under Bashar al Assad.

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Speaker 2: The Huthis are another one, Hamas is another one. And

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Speaker 2: what that allowed them to do was it was like,

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Speaker 2: all right, if you're gonna go and try to take

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Speaker 2: a shot at our nuclear program, then we're gonna use

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Speaker 2: our proxies to rain so many missiles, the Iron Dome

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Speaker 2: is not gonna be able to able to intercept all

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Speaker 2: of them, and they're gonna land in places like Tel Aviv.

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Speaker 2: And we saw a little bit of that a few

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Speaker 2: months ago, if you remember, had a lot of them.

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Speaker 2: Israel wiped out the Hesbela missile stocks, took out their leadership.

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Speaker 2: Godfather won finale style and took care of that threat.

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Speaker 2: They took care of the senior leadership of hamas Uh.

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Speaker 2: There was a regime change, I think because of the

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Speaker 2: Israeli pressure, but ultimately because Turks came in with these

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Speaker 2: sort of gie hottest adjacent rebels and Bashar al Asad

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Speaker 2: now high tailed it out to Moscow. Then they took

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Speaker 2: out the air defense systems in Iran. So they're left

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Speaker 2: naked and vulnerable at this point, the Iranians. So I say,

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Speaker 2: in the words of the immortal Steve Winwood, when you

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Speaker 2: see a chance, take it, because right now you've got

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Speaker 2: a window to take out those nuclear weapons, and that

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Speaker 2: changes the balance of power in the Middle East. The

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Speaker 2: reason I'm concerned is that Trump is now talking about

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Speaker 2: trying to do a deal before that happens with the Iranians,

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Speaker 2: and I just unless that deal is like you know, okay, fine,

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Speaker 2: they're going to surrender them themselves, then I don't see

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Speaker 2: the point of that because I think the Iranians are

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Speaker 2: going to cheat their way out of it. And the

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Speaker 2: guy he's put in charge with, Steve Wigoff, guy who

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Speaker 2: has now got the portfolio to do the deal with

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Speaker 2: Iran at the very least, it's going to buy him time.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know if the Iranians are capable

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Speaker 2: of coming to a deal with the United States or

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Speaker 2: anybody for that matter. But more importantly, like this is

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Speaker 2: the guy who just signed off on this terrible deal

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Speaker 2: for the hostages, which is you know, they come out

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Speaker 2: in phases. They Israelis are giving up a ton of

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Speaker 2: future hostage takers and terrorists. I mean, this is reminiscent

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Speaker 2: of the deal to get Gilad Shalit Yahua Sinwar, who

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Speaker 2: gave us October seventh. He was part of that return

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Speaker 2: of terrorists to the Palestinians. And then you know, would

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Speaker 2: allow Hamas to reconstitute as the sovereign of Gaza. Are

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Speaker 2: you kidding me? Are you kidding me? But that seems

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Speaker 2: to be the situation at this point. So I'm very

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Speaker 2: very concerned, my grap Now is it possible?

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Speaker 1: Wait wait, wait, hold on, so well, maybe finish what

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Speaker 1: you were gonna say to what I'm saying is if

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Speaker 1: Steve Wikoff is going to be the deal maker in

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Speaker 1: the region, and he's going to now try to pursue

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Speaker 1: an Iran deal instead of.

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Speaker 2: Having consultations with then Yahoo and the Israeli government to

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Speaker 2: try to figure out, Okay, how do we make sure

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Speaker 2: that we take out what's left of, you know, the

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Speaker 2: entire nuclear program from Iran. Now's the time to do that,

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Speaker 2: and that opportunity is not necessarily going to exist. I

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Speaker 2: don't know how long they'll have that option, but right

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Speaker 2: now they do. And uh, you know, Trump needs to

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Speaker 2: understand that's the play. And by the way, this is

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Speaker 2: why I was. I was somewhat optimistic. The Iranians tried

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Speaker 2: to kill Trump. So they tried to kill Trump, so

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Speaker 2: he's gonna sit down and make a deal with them.

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Speaker 2: That to me, a it looks weak, sends the wrong

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Speaker 2: message to our allies, is the wrong message to our adversaries.

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Speaker 1: So that's real. What you just said is fucking real.

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Speaker 1: I didn't even think about that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like fucking deals over. If you take a

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Speaker 2: shot at the king and you miss, expect hell fire

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Speaker 2: to come down on you. And this does not have

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Speaker 2: to be like America on the hook to rebuild another country.

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Speaker 2: I understand that he doesn't want to do that. I

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Speaker 2: don't want to do that. It just take out the nukes,

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Speaker 2: you know, and like at that point, I think once

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Speaker 2: you expose them in that respect they don't have the

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Speaker 2: nuclear blackmail card, then I think the Iranian people hate

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Speaker 2: this regime enough that what we're gonna see is hopefully

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Speaker 2: a democratic revolution. I mean, I would not shed a

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Speaker 2: tear if the aging and sickened Ali Khamane, the supreme

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Speaker 2: leader of that country, is strung up by a lampost.

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Speaker 2: That is the faith that he deserves, and I would

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Speaker 2: like to see the Iranian people do it. So like

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Speaker 2: That's where I'm at on this. So I don't understand

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Speaker 2: all this nonsense about we're gonna put this. You know,

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Speaker 2: real estate guy who's a very close friend to Trump

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Speaker 2: in charge of making deals with these people, I think

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Speaker 2: he's been suckered. I think the Kataris, who are a

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Speaker 2: really bad actor, have this witcough guy wrapped around their finger,

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Speaker 2: and I don't think he knows what he doesn't know.

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Speaker 2: I think it's a real problem. I'm very, very worried

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Speaker 2: about it. But that said, the good news is that

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Speaker 2: Trump ch turns on a dime. He is mercurial, and

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Speaker 2: it could just be that he puts up with this

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Speaker 2: bullshit for a little bit and then says, Okay, we're

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Speaker 2: going to go in a different direction. But I'm really

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Speaker 2: worried about all the signs at this point.

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Speaker 3: So you're thinking that Iran is vulnerable.

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Speaker 1: And again, Iran is vulnerable because Israel, the gorgeous, incredible

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Speaker 1: Israel IDF and the airstrike a few months ago and

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Speaker 1: they went in there and they were playing.

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Speaker 3: They fucked the place up.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and there were some females that were doing it too,

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Speaker 1: which is just makes me so happy.

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Speaker 2: Some I feel like them came early.

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Speaker 3: It was.

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Speaker 1: It was unbelievable, the Israeli Air Force, they were in there,

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Speaker 1: flying around, They took out so much of their defense stuff.

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Speaker 3: They're vulnerable. So you're saying right now that.

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Speaker 1: You wish that we went in there and pounded more

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Speaker 1: or make them submit, like what would be ideal for

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Speaker 1: you right now?

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Speaker 2: Ideally right now what you would do is you would

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Speaker 2: I mean, nobody knows outside of you know, the Israeli,

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Speaker 2: the IDF and the Mosad and the Pentagon and you

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Speaker 2: know whatever. But like there's there's some stuff is real

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Speaker 2: can do against the nuclear program, and there's other stuff

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Speaker 2: They're gonna need either special equipment or support from the

433
00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:50,400
Speaker 2: United States work that shit out, you know what I mean,

434
00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:54,240
Speaker 2: coordinate that and basically start taking out their nuclear sites.

435
00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:56,720
Speaker 2: And if they want to make a deal, we're like, okay, fine,

436
00:22:56,800 --> 00:22:59,119
Speaker 2: we submit, we're not gonna have a nuclear program, and

437
00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:03,080
Speaker 2: we're actually gonnas handle our nuclear program. Once you've introduced

438
00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:06,399
Speaker 2: the option of like we'll dismantle it for you, you fox,

439
00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:10,600
Speaker 2: you know, at that point, fine, if you know what

440
00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:13,600
Speaker 2: I mean. But like that's the deal. The deal is

441
00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:18,720
Speaker 2: either dismantle it and verify that you have dismantled it,

442
00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:22,159
Speaker 2: or we'll dismantle it for you. There's nothing else to

443
00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:25,520
Speaker 2: talk about. I don't want, you know, the Joint Comprehensive

444
00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:28,879
Speaker 2: Plan of Agreement with the P five plus one. Nobody cares.

445
00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:31,760
Speaker 2: That's the Obama way. It didn't work. It wasn't going

446
00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:33,560
Speaker 2: to work. Trump was smart enough to get out of

447
00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:35,919
Speaker 2: that bad deal. And if he thinks that he's going

448
00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:38,879
Speaker 2: to get a good deal by starting with like all right,

449
00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:42,159
Speaker 2: what do you need and like we're going to trade. No,

450
00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:45,320
Speaker 2: the deal has to be do what we say on this.

451
00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:47,680
Speaker 2: You should never have had this nuclear program to begin with.

452
00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:49,919
Speaker 2: You're one of the leading exporters of oil. As it is,

453
00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:52,800
Speaker 2: either do what we say or we'll do it for you.

454
00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:56,160
Speaker 2: And that's the negotiation. It's like, you know, that's right.

455
00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:58,960
Speaker 2: And once you get him in a negotiated process, and

456
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:01,880
Speaker 2: once you do all this other stuff at that point,

457
00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:06,240
Speaker 2: like you know, the Iranians are so good at negotiations,

458
00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:08,520
Speaker 2: and I don't trust this winch. This wiguff is a

459
00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:10,119
Speaker 2: novice when it comes to the Middle East. Now you

460
00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:11,960
Speaker 2: could say, all right, Jared Kushner was a novice and

461
00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:12,920
Speaker 2: he did the Abrahamer Corps.

462
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:15,480
Speaker 1: Junk Yard is the guy I was so wrong about.

463
00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:17,440
Speaker 1: Junkyard junk Was that guy?

464
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:17,879
Speaker 3: Yeah?

465
00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:20,480
Speaker 2: But then, like the rumor from mar A Lago at

466
00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:25,159
Speaker 2: this moment Mike Rapp is that the Jared wing, the

467
00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:28,640
Speaker 2: Jared Ivanka people are on the outs and it's the

468
00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:31,840
Speaker 2: Tucker Don Junior wing that's like making the staffing decisions

469
00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:34,720
Speaker 2: that the people below the principle, so like below the

470
00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:37,800
Speaker 2: Secretary of Defense, you have all these other positions the Pentagon,

471
00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:40,800
Speaker 2: and they're going to like you know, I don't know

472
00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:43,000
Speaker 2: people who were at the like these think tanks that

473
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:47,720
Speaker 2: are like just down on Israel, down on American power,

474
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:51,040
Speaker 2: and it's not good. And so that's some of that's

475
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:54,560
Speaker 2: happening as well. So those are bad signs. That's what's

476
00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:57,560
Speaker 2: on my mind. But I might come back in three weeks, right,

477
00:24:57,600 --> 00:24:58,639
Speaker 2: and we have this conversation.

478
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:00,399
Speaker 3: It might not even be three weeks.

479
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:02,119
Speaker 2: It could be next week, it could be next weekend,

480
00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:05,240
Speaker 2: like so fast, right, Trump world changes on the time, right,

481
00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:09,200
Speaker 2: So we don't know. Like Rubio really strong on this stuff.

482
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:11,640
Speaker 2: But Pete hegg Seth, whatever you want to say about

483
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:14,440
Speaker 2: Pete heg Seth not having experience managing a large organization,

484
00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:18,920
Speaker 2: which is true, Like he's a warrior and he knows

485
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:21,320
Speaker 2: the Iranians are enemies. I don't any doubt about that.

486
00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:24,360
Speaker 2: The National Security Advisor, this guy Mike Walls, he's terrific

487
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:26,040
Speaker 2: on this stuff. I've I've talked to him on these

488
00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:30,520
Speaker 2: things before. So like, you know, that's good. The bad

489
00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:32,960
Speaker 2: stuff is like the people under them, in some cases.

490
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:35,880
Speaker 2: And then also the thing that I'm very worried about

491
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:39,800
Speaker 2: is this witcoff guy. Don't it's no good.

492
00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:43,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, I am too, and other people that I consider

493
00:25:44,840 --> 00:26:05,080
Speaker 1: experts like yourself have said the same thing. The hostage

494
00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:11,760
Speaker 1: deal is so frustrating. The release of the three hostages

495
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:16,400
Speaker 1: last week was incredible. Hopefully by the time this airs,

496
00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:20,000
Speaker 1: this podcast is out, we'll get four more back.

497
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:24,080
Speaker 3: But this is this is not a good deal.

498
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:25,680
Speaker 2: And horrible deal.

499
00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:28,840
Speaker 1: And you know what, Ali, I personally think that after

500
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:31,840
Speaker 1: October seventh, there was never going to be a good

501
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:37,160
Speaker 1: deal once we took that blow of all those civilians

502
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:41,840
Speaker 1: being killed, even if there was no hostages, but just

503
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:45,199
Speaker 1: October seventh alone, on the amount of people that were killed,

504
00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:46,800
Speaker 1: there was no good deal.

505
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:47,640
Speaker 3: It's a loss.

506
00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:51,520
Speaker 1: And we could try to articulate this and try to

507
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:53,280
Speaker 1: articulate all these other things.

508
00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:54,720
Speaker 3: Obviously there's been.

509
00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:58,720
Speaker 1: Wins, but you don't just bounce back from having your

510
00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:03,240
Speaker 1: country infiltrated on October seventh and having at the start

511
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:07,640
Speaker 1: two hundred and fifty one hostages taken. All the we're

512
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:13,040
Speaker 1: almost at a thousand IDF soldiers, we've lost all the

513
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:19,280
Speaker 1: PTSD of October seventh, you know, the survivors of October seventh,

514
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:23,840
Speaker 1: the children of every day civilians, cafe owners in Tel

515
00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:27,080
Speaker 1: Aviv who are running into shelters for the last year,

516
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:31,040
Speaker 1: communities in the north of Israel, the communities in the

517
00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:35,280
Speaker 1: south of Israel. It's just been non stop, NonStop, NonStop,

518
00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:41,600
Speaker 1: NonStop and violence. And of course, you know, the most pressing, important, heartbreaking,

519
00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:42,680
Speaker 1: frustrating thing.

520
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:43,920
Speaker 3: These hostages.

521
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:49,359
Speaker 1: I'm so confused and frustrated just by the fact that

522
00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:54,159
Speaker 1: they're saying these thirty three hostages. I know there's ninety

523
00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:56,560
Speaker 1: one hostages currently. I believe it's nineteen.

524
00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:58,480
Speaker 2: We don't know how many are dead. I mean, we

525
00:27:58,600 --> 00:27:59,879
Speaker 2: think we know, but we don't know. A lot of

526
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:02,120
Speaker 2: could be like it's like and they're gonna give back

527
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:06,000
Speaker 2: the corpses, you know what, Like screw. I'm sorry, I understand.

528
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:07,640
Speaker 2: We want to get as many of these people out

529
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:10,840
Speaker 2: as possible, and it's a real dilemma because we you know,

530
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:12,960
Speaker 2: they if you get too close, they'll do what they

531
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:15,000
Speaker 2: did before, and they'll just just they'll shoot him in

532
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:17,280
Speaker 2: the head because they're they're sick fucks.

533
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:19,680
Speaker 3: They're sick fucking animals.

534
00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:23,960
Speaker 2: It's yes, they're horrible and it's terrible. But the one

535
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:26,119
Speaker 2: thing I would say, and we shouldn't lose sight of it,

536
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:30,520
Speaker 2: is that because of the horror of October seventh, there's

537
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:33,119
Speaker 2: and it's never I'm never gonna put us. You're right

538
00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:37,960
Speaker 2: about everything you said, but that set off a chain

539
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:43,240
Speaker 2: of events where Hesbelah is a shell of itself. Yesshar

540
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:46,000
Speaker 2: al Assad is no longer in charge of Syria and

541
00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 2: the new leadership. As much as I'm concerned about the

542
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:50,760
Speaker 2: new leadership, and we should be, because they they're a

543
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:53,840
Speaker 2: former Al Qaida. They've said they don't want any smoke

544
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:56,760
Speaker 2: with Israel. That's a good thing, and then they said

545
00:28:56,800 --> 00:28:59,520
Speaker 2: that we'll see if they get fucking yeah, but they're

546
00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:01,400
Speaker 2: not gonna They're not going to be a pawn of

547
00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:04,320
Speaker 2: the Iranians. The Iranians are the people who oppressed and

548
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:08,160
Speaker 2: starved and murdered, you know, along with the Russians the

549
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:10,760
Speaker 2: Syrian people. So there is a little bit of reason

550
00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:12,640
Speaker 2: to believe that maybe they don't want to go all

551
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:17,160
Speaker 2: the way there. And finally, the hamas itself is they're

552
00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:20,240
Speaker 2: certainly performing as if they won the war, because oh

553
00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:23,400
Speaker 2: they're nothing, but they lost everybody at the senior levels,

554
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:27,640
Speaker 2: including Sinhwar, and their tunnels are destroyed, a lot of

555
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:31,160
Speaker 2: them are, so it's like there is some success. It's

556
00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:32,760
Speaker 2: just like I don't want to get back into a

557
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:36,440
Speaker 2: situation where there's still the de facto sovereigns of Gaza,

558
00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:39,840
Speaker 2: and that is if that's what this deal ends up

559
00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:42,000
Speaker 2: looking like. I mean, technically it's you know, there's some

560
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:44,800
Speaker 2: phase where it comes in and maybe other things happen,

561
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:46,640
Speaker 2: but I don't think that's going to happen, and I

562
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:48,160
Speaker 2: think the structure of the deal make sure that it

563
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:50,920
Speaker 2: won't happen. So if they remain the sovereigns of Gaza,

564
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:55,560
Speaker 2: then that's a loss. But if the dynamics of the

565
00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:58,360
Speaker 2: rest of the region change, starting with Iran, Iran's the

566
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:02,480
Speaker 2: most important piece, then maybe they can't hang on. Because

567
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:04,560
Speaker 2: if you have a situation where the Iranians no longer

568
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:08,680
Speaker 2: have that nuclear blackmail card, then and the Iranians are

569
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:10,959
Speaker 2: really reeling and the Iranians are getting all of these

570
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:13,560
Speaker 2: sanctions putting back on them, the regime at least and

571
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:16,760
Speaker 2: everything like that, well then like at that point, maybe

572
00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:18,560
Speaker 2: they don't have the money, maybe they don't have the ability,

573
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:21,400
Speaker 2: they don't have the logistical networks. If they lost Syria,

574
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 2: which they did to arm Hesbalah, how are they going

575
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:27,160
Speaker 2: to get this, you know, to the Hamas now that

576
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:29,080
Speaker 2: the you know, the one of the things the Israelis

577
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:33,120
Speaker 2: learned is that the Egyptian military was smuggling underneath you know,

578
00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:38,240
Speaker 2: their border through the Sinai into Gaza. Hopefully the Israelis

579
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:40,000
Speaker 2: are kind of on top of that, maybe that stops.

580
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:41,840
Speaker 2: So once you you know, if you can, if you

581
00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:45,640
Speaker 2: can cut off Hamas what's left of them, then maybe

582
00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:47,880
Speaker 2: they become too weak and maybe you can get somebody

583
00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:50,600
Speaker 2: else better in there. But this is like a lifeline,

584
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:52,960
Speaker 2: this this deal for them, and I hate that, I

585
00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:54,480
Speaker 2: know it is a lifeline.

586
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:58,600
Speaker 1: And and I'm just the one thing that no one

587
00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:01,240
Speaker 1: has given an answer on is how are we just

588
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:05,880
Speaker 1: accepting thirty three hostages when there's ninety one hostages?

589
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:07,480
Speaker 3: I don't understand that.

590
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 1: Like, so after the let's say Saturday, they gave those

591
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:14,240
Speaker 1: thirty three, some are alive, some are dead. There's still

592
00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:17,640
Speaker 1: fifty something other people in there. I'll tell you something

593
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:21,200
Speaker 1: really twisted, man, It is twisted the way out there.

594
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:23,200
Speaker 1: What are we gonna keep doing this shit?

595
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:25,360
Speaker 2: Absolutely? And I'll tell you something else that I'm very

596
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:29,440
Speaker 2: worried about the Kafar Bebis, those twins, those infants they stole,

597
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:32,600
Speaker 2: like the animals, the sick animals that they are. Let

598
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:35,960
Speaker 2: me tell you something. If they're not in that first group,

599
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:38,640
Speaker 2: if we don't see them, then I'm assuming they're dead.

600
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:42,320
Speaker 2: They kill those fucking babies. I'm just saying, like, if

601
00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:44,760
Speaker 2: that's the case, I think the nation of Israel is

602
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:48,280
Speaker 2: gonna freak out. So, I mean, at a certain point,

603
00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:50,120
Speaker 2: what you have to do is just you gotta say

604
00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:52,720
Speaker 2: you got to get back to the original goal of

605
00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:55,560
Speaker 2: the war, no more Humas, ending Humas, and I think

606
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:57,520
Speaker 2: you end him. And by the way, taking out the

607
00:31:57,560 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 2: Iranian nukes is a good way to start to get down,

608
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:02,400
Speaker 2: I mean, and as well as taking out their senior leaders.

609
00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:05,560
Speaker 2: So I'm with you, Mike Grab It's not a good deal.

610
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:08,320
Speaker 2: It's not a good deal, and it's unfortunate we're not

611
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:11,680
Speaker 2: as because we as in diaspora don't feel it as

612
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:14,960
Speaker 2: intensely as the Israelis. But one of the things maybe

613
00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:17,280
Speaker 2: we can do in this sort of broader you know,

614
00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:20,560
Speaker 2: the broader community of Israel or the broader Jewish nation

615
00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:23,360
Speaker 2: as it were is that we can, maybe because we're

616
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:25,960
Speaker 2: distant from it, have a little bit of perspective and say,

617
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:28,880
Speaker 2: as horrible as it is, if we don't get some

618
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:30,760
Speaker 2: of these hostages back, and that is a terrible thing,

619
00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:32,320
Speaker 2: and we want them back. And I know how much

620
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:35,000
Speaker 2: you've advocated for it, and you've put your own voice

621
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:38,040
Speaker 2: behind it, and that's important. As much as we want

622
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:41,840
Speaker 2: those hostages back, that's not the ballgame. The ballgame is

623
00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:46,360
Speaker 2: ending Hamas, so we don't have future hostages. I agree,

624
00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:47,040
Speaker 2: it's bad.

625
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:50,920
Speaker 1: One of the podcasts that you had put out a

626
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:54,840
Speaker 1: few months ago that I loved, the as a Jew.

627
00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:57,760
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that was one of my last ones for Nebulas,

628
00:32:57,760 --> 00:32:58,719
Speaker 2: So that was that was a good one.

629
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:01,360
Speaker 1: Just inform people about that because I just you know,

630
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:04,600
Speaker 1: the as a Jew Jew. I had never heard that term,

631
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:06,560
Speaker 1: and I don't know if you created it, but you

632
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:10,600
Speaker 1: did a whole episode before you uh just started launching

633
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:14,960
Speaker 1: your new podcast, breaking History. But explain what an as

634
00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:19,640
Speaker 1: a Jew jew is and give the prototype poster boys

635
00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:20,920
Speaker 1: of as a Jew Jews.

636
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:24,240
Speaker 2: The as a Jew jew are the Jews that basically

637
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:29,000
Speaker 2: side against Israel and they always start their statement as

638
00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:32,920
Speaker 2: a Jew. I can't abide by the bombing and so forth,

639
00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:36,000
Speaker 2: you know. So it's one of those things. And I

640
00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:39,680
Speaker 2: looked at the historical precedent for this, and historically there've

641
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:41,720
Speaker 2: always been Jews, like in Middle in the in the

642
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:44,440
Speaker 2: Middle Ages before we had a state of Israel, that

643
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:47,200
Speaker 2: would try to ingratiate themselves with the powers that be

644
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:50,280
Speaker 2: by converting and claiming, well, you know, as a Jew,

645
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:53,719
Speaker 2: I have this knowledge of like that the Talmud is actually,

646
00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:55,920
Speaker 2: you know, a blasphemy and we should we should burn

647
00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:58,160
Speaker 2: the Talmud. And there was a guy by the name

648
00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:01,160
Speaker 2: of Johannes Sefferhorn who in the early sixteenth century did

649
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:04,440
Speaker 2: this in Germany, and it was potentially a terrible thing.

650
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:07,280
Speaker 2: But the silver lining, again, like the history is a

651
00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:09,760
Speaker 2: funny thing, is that he thought he had an ally

652
00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:13,120
Speaker 2: in one of the leading Christian Catholic theologians of the time,

653
00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:17,560
Speaker 2: a guy named Johannes Rouyklan, and Reuklan looked at his

654
00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:21,239
Speaker 2: argument basically and said, you are a total fraud, and

655
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:24,640
Speaker 2: ended up defending him and persuaded the emperor at the

656
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:28,240
Speaker 2: time to reverse what was known as the Padua mandate,

657
00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:31,239
Speaker 2: which was, you know, to confiscate all the Tumuds, and

658
00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:35,400
Speaker 2: he reversed it. He persuaded him using the logic of

659
00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:39,840
Speaker 2: kind of Christian theology. And Reyklan is a great hero well,

660
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:43,520
Speaker 2: one of the original righteous gentiles, and history always has this.

661
00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:46,000
Speaker 2: It's another side of the story is that don't paint

662
00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:48,680
Speaker 2: with too broad a brush. There were terrible things that

663
00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:51,080
Speaker 2: happened to our people in you know, the Islamic world,

664
00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:54,759
Speaker 2: in Christian Europe, but there were also individuals who understood

665
00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:57,480
Speaker 2: that we were people of the same book in some

666
00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:01,680
Speaker 2: ways that they were, and that you know, the Judaism

667
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:05,560
Speaker 2: is like the sort of the base of you know, Christianity,

668
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:09,080
Speaker 2: and you could also argue Islam and in that respect,

669
00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:10,680
Speaker 2: you know. So I just think it's always a kind

670
00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:12,840
Speaker 2: of complicated question that there are always going to be

671
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:14,800
Speaker 2: Jews who side with the enemies of the Jews, but

672
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:17,759
Speaker 2: there are also Gentiles who will side with the Jews

673
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:20,480
Speaker 2: and really make a difference. And in this today's context,

674
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:24,319
Speaker 2: I would say Richie Torres, John Fetterman, these are people

675
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:26,719
Speaker 2: who I would say, are the you know, sort of

676
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:30,160
Speaker 2: in that great tradition of Johannes Royglan who have taken

677
00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:33,040
Speaker 2: a stand in their own Democratic party against this kind

678
00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:38,200
Speaker 2: of anti Semitism, anti Israelism, and you know we should.

679
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:41,680
Speaker 2: I'm so grateful for Richie Torres and John Fetterman, and

680
00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:43,840
Speaker 2: I think we're hopefully going to see more because, like

681
00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:46,680
Speaker 2: I think, part of the reason why the Democrats did

682
00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:50,239
Speaker 2: so badly is because they were associated. They didn't want

683
00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:53,560
Speaker 2: to offend the lunatics on college campuses.

684
00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:58,560
Speaker 3: Fuck those scumbags, Yeah, exactly, exactly right. Fuck those coward.

685
00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:03,160
Speaker 1: Fucking faceless costume wearing cocksuckers.

686
00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:04,600
Speaker 3: Fuck fuck them.

687
00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:10,520
Speaker 1: They're cos players and they're fucking' They're like Palestinian blackface.

688
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:12,520
Speaker 1: You might as well put on blackface. You're not a

689
00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:14,839
Speaker 1: fucking you're not in a moss. It might as well.

690
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:16,719
Speaker 1: You might as well associate, say you're part of the

691
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:20,279
Speaker 1: Bloods and crips. You're not in the fucking gang, You're

692
00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:23,239
Speaker 1: not a terrorist. Take the fucking mask off, take the

693
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:26,640
Speaker 1: fucking outfit off. You look fucking ridiculous. Totally, you look

694
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:32,000
Speaker 1: fucking ridiculous. Another thing your podcast you told me isn't

695
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:36,040
Speaker 1: just historical stuff. You told me that you're working on

696
00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:38,600
Speaker 1: an episode and could you just give a little insight

697
00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:42,479
Speaker 1: into the Los Angeles fires and California as a whole.

698
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:45,080
Speaker 2: Well, we were gonna leave the California and then we're

699
00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:48,320
Speaker 2: gonna get into We want to answer this question because

700
00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:50,239
Speaker 2: I think that the wildfires, you know, we could do

701
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:52,759
Speaker 2: something on like the ecology of southern California, but lots

702
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:55,080
Speaker 2: of people done that. What we're looking at is what

703
00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:57,920
Speaker 2: does it tell us about the state failure of the

704
00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:02,439
Speaker 2: Mono Party, the Democrats in California. And to answer that question,

705
00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:04,879
Speaker 2: we do go back in history, go back fifty years.

706
00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:06,560
Speaker 2: I don't want to give too much away because I'm

707
00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:08,040
Speaker 2: still writing it, but we go back fifty years to

708
00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:11,160
Speaker 2: San Francisco and we look at what I call San

709
00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:14,640
Speaker 2: fran seventies, which is a wild time, but San frans

710
00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:18,680
Speaker 2: seventies that's where we see the modern kind of not

711
00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:23,560
Speaker 2: just California, really national like sort of approach to democratic politics,

712
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:27,920
Speaker 2: which is this coalition of progressive identity groups. So you've

713
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:31,000
Speaker 2: got you know, what's the Democratic Party. Democratic Party used to.

714
00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:32,800
Speaker 3: Be like labor.

715
00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:35,719
Speaker 2: It was like labor trial, lawyer, is this, that and

716
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:39,879
Speaker 2: the other. Now it's you know, LGBTQ that's one camp.

717
00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:44,600
Speaker 2: You know, Black Lives Matter that's another camp. Latino it's

718
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:48,680
Speaker 2: every identity women. And I'm not saying there's anything wrong

719
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:51,200
Speaker 2: with pushing for women's rights, that's not the point. Point

720
00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:55,040
Speaker 2: is that it's all identity based politics and all of it,

721
00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:56,960
Speaker 2: all of it. And if you really want to know

722
00:37:57,040 --> 00:38:00,440
Speaker 2: the proof of concept where that kind of coalition finally

723
00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:02,680
Speaker 2: kind of gains power and has success, it's the San

724
00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:06,520
Speaker 2: Francisco mayoral election of nineteen seventy five, which is a

725
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:10,520
Speaker 2: fascinating story that really gets into like I mean, first

726
00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:12,239
Speaker 2: of all, it's a great story because San Francisco in

727
00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:15,239
Speaker 2: the seventies is a wild place. And second of all,

728
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:18,000
Speaker 2: it kind of helps explain what the Democratic Party in

729
00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:21,040
Speaker 2: California is today because San Francisco really is the power

730
00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:23,920
Speaker 2: in that state. More so you lived there for many years.

731
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:26,920
Speaker 2: LA is a huge city, it's a big deal. Hollywood

732
00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:30,040
Speaker 2: is a big deal. That's important. But if you want

733
00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:32,120
Speaker 2: to understand the history of like where the real power

734
00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:34,120
Speaker 2: brokers in the state are, it's the Bay Area, it's

735
00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:37,400
Speaker 2: the state, And to me, it's a fascinating it's a

736
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:37,920
Speaker 2: great story.

737
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:40,480
Speaker 3: All right, Well, I can't wait to hear that.

738
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:46,680
Speaker 1: And obviously, right now, more than ever, California the good, bad,

739
00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:52,560
Speaker 1: the ugly, and the post Horrible Fires is very pressing,

740
00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:55,239
Speaker 1: so I hope you get that one out soon. I

741
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:59,279
Speaker 1: can't wait to have you as a a platform. I

742
00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:01,360
Speaker 1: respect you so much. I've learned so much from you.

743
00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:05,399
Speaker 1: You've given me so much insight for Breaking History, which

744
00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:08,840
Speaker 1: I'm assuming we could find on all your pass plass.

745
00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:11,399
Speaker 2: It's really easy breaking History. I think we're number ten

746
00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:13,120
Speaker 2: in the podcast. I mean, I don't know how that

747
00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:15,440
Speaker 2: can go. Let's go, let's go, let's go, let's go.

748
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:18,680
Speaker 2: And uh, thank you Mike Rapp for it is such

749
00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:22,200
Speaker 2: an honor to be your friend, and I really appreciate

750
00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:25,000
Speaker 2: you giving me this this platform today to tell your

751
00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:28,040
Speaker 2: listeners come on Breaking History. I have to tell you

752
00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:31,320
Speaker 2: one thing before I go. My senior producer and collaborator

753
00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:33,560
Speaker 2: guy who's in London named Alex Miller, who works with

754
00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:35,400
Speaker 2: me on these episodes and the scripts and everything. I

755
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:36,799
Speaker 2: told him I was going on the show, and he says,

756
00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:39,720
Speaker 2: just tell Mike Rapp that he was amazing in True Romance.

757
00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:43,000
Speaker 3: He made that movie, Yeah, let's go. Why I didn't

758
00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:44,680
Speaker 3: make it? It was it was that was definitely a

759
00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:46,040
Speaker 3: team effort. It was at effort.

760
00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:48,920
Speaker 2: But you were so good as a contrast to the

761
00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:51,400
Speaker 2: Christian Slater character who comes out of nowhere. It was

762
00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:53,800
Speaker 2: so good anyway, you were amazing.

763
00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:56,080
Speaker 1: Man, tell them I said, you're so cool, because if

764
00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:58,840
Speaker 1: he's a real true romance appreciation, so cool, you know

765
00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:03,120
Speaker 1: what that means? All right, Breaking History, Eli Lake, follow him,

766
00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:06,800
Speaker 1: support him. I can't wait to hear the episodes. I

767
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:10,040
Speaker 1: listen to all your episodes. I call you, we talk,

768
00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:14,520
Speaker 1: we FaceTime, we talk our shit, Breaking History, the Free Press,

769
00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:18,880
Speaker 1: Eli Lake, good luck with it, and make sure you know.

770
00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:22,239
Speaker 1: Like Eli, make sure I always tell people that are

771
00:40:22,239 --> 00:40:25,360
Speaker 1: starting a new podcast, you could have the greatest content

772
00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:28,040
Speaker 1: in the world, but if you're not pressing record and

773
00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:29,520
Speaker 1: saving those fucking.

774
00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:31,000
Speaker 3: Files, none of it matters.

775
00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:34,759
Speaker 1: So make sure it's because God forbid you record what

776
00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:36,960
Speaker 1: are your episodes and you have to re record it

777
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:39,320
Speaker 1: because it didn't get saved. It's happened to me a

778
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:43,520
Speaker 1: handful of times, and it is a brutal, brutal feeling.

779
00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:47,160
Speaker 1: So the number one a rule podcast I got one

780
00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:49,719
Speaker 1: through five is make sure you're pressing record and save

781
00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:51,440
Speaker 1: on those podcast episodes.

782
00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:54,520
Speaker 2: Okay, thanks Mike wrapping. All right, I'll talk to you much,

783
00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:56,040
Speaker 2: my friend. Okay, bye bye,