1 00:00:15,476 --> 00:00:15,916 Speaker 1: Pushkin. 2 00:00:19,156 --> 00:00:21,996 Speaker 2: Welcome to a special set of episodes of the Happiness Lab. 3 00:00:22,716 --> 00:00:25,996 Speaker 2: The now global spread of coronavirus is affecting all of us. 4 00:00:26,956 --> 00:00:29,556 Speaker 2: This disease has brought a host of medical, economic, and 5 00:00:29,596 --> 00:00:32,916 Speaker 2: political problems, but it's also given us a ton of 6 00:00:32,996 --> 00:00:36,556 Speaker 2: uncertainty and anxiety, which are beginning to have an enormous 7 00:00:36,556 --> 00:00:40,596 Speaker 2: negative impact on our collective well being. But whenever I'm 8 00:00:40,636 --> 00:00:43,676 Speaker 2: confused or fearful, I remember that looking for answers in 9 00:00:43,796 --> 00:00:46,476 Speaker 2: evidence based science is always the best way to go, 10 00:00:47,076 --> 00:00:53,156 Speaker 2: and that's where I'm hoping this podcast can help. For 11 00:00:53,236 --> 00:00:55,676 Speaker 2: the past month, screens have been the lifeblood of my 12 00:00:55,756 --> 00:00:59,036 Speaker 2: social connection. They've allowed me to see my family, chat 13 00:00:59,076 --> 00:01:02,276 Speaker 2: with friends and colleagues, run my lab meetings, and even 14 00:01:02,316 --> 00:01:07,356 Speaker 2: conduct the podcast interviews you've heard over the past few weeks. 15 00:01:07,636 --> 00:01:10,436 Speaker 2: Screens have also been my key to entertainment, news, and 16 00:01:10,556 --> 00:01:14,036 Speaker 2: even exercise while I'm stuck inside the house. But if 17 00:01:14,076 --> 00:01:17,236 Speaker 2: I'm being honest, staring at a screen all day over 18 00:01:17,276 --> 00:01:20,116 Speaker 2: the past few weeks has also made me more depleted 19 00:01:20,156 --> 00:01:23,356 Speaker 2: than usual. Just yesterday, I realized I'd been sitting in 20 00:01:23,356 --> 00:01:26,476 Speaker 2: the same chair for over six straight hours of Zoom meetings, 21 00:01:26,956 --> 00:01:29,916 Speaker 2: which made my brain and my body fell kind of gross. 22 00:01:30,596 --> 00:01:32,636 Speaker 2: The lockdown has also up the amount of time I 23 00:01:32,676 --> 00:01:36,436 Speaker 2: spend looking at scary news on Twitter, or apathetically scrolling 24 00:01:36,476 --> 00:01:39,556 Speaker 2: through a sea of Netflix options, or peeking at Reddit 25 00:01:39,716 --> 00:01:42,836 Speaker 2: when I should be chatting with my husband. I started 26 00:01:42,836 --> 00:01:45,436 Speaker 2: to realize that surviving this lockdown with my mental health 27 00:01:45,476 --> 00:01:48,356 Speaker 2: intact requires taking a good, hard look at my own 28 00:01:48,396 --> 00:01:51,156 Speaker 2: screen time. So I decided to put a call out 29 00:01:51,156 --> 00:01:55,196 Speaker 2: to an expert, Catherine Price. Catherine is a science journalist 30 00:01:55,276 --> 00:01:56,956 Speaker 2: who wrote a book called How to Break Up with 31 00:01:56,996 --> 00:02:00,316 Speaker 2: Your Phone. Ironically enough, the only way we could connect 32 00:02:00,396 --> 00:02:04,636 Speaker 2: during the lockdown was over zoom. Sweet, So once you 33 00:02:04,676 --> 00:02:06,436 Speaker 2: hit record, let me know and then we can get started. 34 00:02:06,956 --> 00:02:10,876 Speaker 2: I have hit record, so, Katherin, I feel like I've 35 00:02:10,916 --> 00:02:13,796 Speaker 2: spent pretty much the entire last three weeks just staring 36 00:02:13,796 --> 00:02:14,316 Speaker 2: at a screen. 37 00:02:14,476 --> 00:02:16,236 Speaker 1: I mean, is this just me? Or is this something 38 00:02:16,236 --> 00:02:16,916 Speaker 1: you can relate to? 39 00:02:17,596 --> 00:02:19,756 Speaker 3: I certainly can relate to it personally, and I can 40 00:02:19,796 --> 00:02:21,676 Speaker 3: tell you for sure You're not alone in terms of 41 00:02:21,676 --> 00:02:23,996 Speaker 3: the general population, because I've been hearing from lots and 42 00:02:24,036 --> 00:02:26,036 Speaker 3: lots of people about how they feel that their screen 43 00:02:26,036 --> 00:02:28,636 Speaker 3: life balance has gone out the window since all of 44 00:02:28,676 --> 00:02:31,356 Speaker 3: our work life is now even more on screens, and 45 00:02:31,396 --> 00:02:34,236 Speaker 3: our personal life has shifted onto screens, and our leisure 46 00:02:34,316 --> 00:02:36,916 Speaker 3: time is in large parts spent on screens. So yeah, 47 00:02:36,956 --> 00:02:38,316 Speaker 3: it's something everyone's struggling with. 48 00:02:38,716 --> 00:02:40,996 Speaker 2: And so you've argued that screen life balance is important 49 00:02:41,036 --> 00:02:43,596 Speaker 2: in general, but talk about why it's really essential during 50 00:02:43,596 --> 00:02:44,836 Speaker 2: this time of COVID nineteen. 51 00:02:45,036 --> 00:02:46,796 Speaker 3: Well, I think it's even more important to think about 52 00:02:46,836 --> 00:02:50,156 Speaker 3: screen life balance during COVID nineteen, specifically because we're spending 53 00:02:50,196 --> 00:02:53,836 Speaker 3: so much time on screens. So to be clear, I 54 00:02:53,876 --> 00:02:57,276 Speaker 3: think we need to realize that there's nothing inherently wrong 55 00:02:57,316 --> 00:02:58,836 Speaker 3: about this. I hear from a lot of people who 56 00:02:58,916 --> 00:03:01,316 Speaker 3: are talking about, Oh, I should spend less time on screens, 57 00:03:01,436 --> 00:03:03,356 Speaker 3: or I should do this. You know, what we should 58 00:03:03,356 --> 00:03:05,476 Speaker 3: be doing right now is social distancing and like washing 59 00:03:05,516 --> 00:03:07,476 Speaker 3: our hands, that's what we should be doing when it 60 00:03:07,516 --> 00:03:10,436 Speaker 3: comes to our screens. We don't need to be critical 61 00:03:10,436 --> 00:03:13,076 Speaker 3: of ourselves or restrictive just for the sake of being 62 00:03:13,116 --> 00:03:16,796 Speaker 3: critical or restrictive. What's really important is to ask yourself, Okay, well, 63 00:03:16,956 --> 00:03:19,036 Speaker 3: since I am spending so much time on my screens, 64 00:03:19,196 --> 00:03:21,036 Speaker 3: how can I make sure the time I am spending 65 00:03:21,076 --> 00:03:24,316 Speaker 3: on them is making me feel productive, Which part is 66 00:03:24,356 --> 00:03:26,596 Speaker 3: necessary and which part is actually making me feel good 67 00:03:26,676 --> 00:03:28,876 Speaker 3: or connected to other people, because those are the parts 68 00:03:28,876 --> 00:03:31,676 Speaker 3: you want to keep. That's the beauty of technology is 69 00:03:31,716 --> 00:03:33,796 Speaker 3: that we are able to stay connected and be productive 70 00:03:33,836 --> 00:03:36,276 Speaker 3: during a time like this. But there's also lots of 71 00:03:36,356 --> 00:03:38,796 Speaker 3: uses of screens that are making us not feel so great, 72 00:03:38,996 --> 00:03:41,436 Speaker 3: like getting sucked into endless cycles of checking the news 73 00:03:41,476 --> 00:03:45,036 Speaker 3: over and over again, or getting into social media spirals 74 00:03:45,076 --> 00:03:47,516 Speaker 3: that go beyond just kind of a pleasant distraction and 75 00:03:47,556 --> 00:03:51,196 Speaker 3: more into mind numbing kind of self medicating territory. 76 00:03:51,676 --> 00:03:54,076 Speaker 2: I think this is really critical because your argument isn't 77 00:03:54,076 --> 00:03:56,356 Speaker 2: that it's the amount of time we're spending on screens 78 00:03:56,396 --> 00:03:57,956 Speaker 2: that's a problem. It's not that we need to reduce 79 00:03:57,956 --> 00:03:59,876 Speaker 2: our screen time generally. It's just that we need to 80 00:03:59,876 --> 00:04:02,316 Speaker 2: start paying attention to how these screens are making us feel. 81 00:04:02,716 --> 00:04:05,156 Speaker 3: Yeah, you need to be intentional about your screen time. 82 00:04:05,276 --> 00:04:07,316 Speaker 3: That's what I keep coming back to. So I wouldn't 83 00:04:07,356 --> 00:04:09,396 Speaker 3: get hung up on the number of hours or is 84 00:04:09,396 --> 00:04:11,676 Speaker 3: that your iPhone is telling you that you've spent on 85 00:04:11,756 --> 00:04:14,116 Speaker 3: it per week, because it's very likely to be higher 86 00:04:14,196 --> 00:04:16,476 Speaker 3: than normal. But I think you instead can just ask 87 00:04:16,516 --> 00:04:18,916 Speaker 3: yourself Okay, Well, which parts of that screen time felt 88 00:04:18,916 --> 00:04:21,756 Speaker 3: good and which parts didn't, And that's the place to 89 00:04:21,836 --> 00:04:24,196 Speaker 3: start to get curious about it. And I think also 90 00:04:24,236 --> 00:04:27,476 Speaker 3: it's a really useful skill to develop that you will 91 00:04:27,516 --> 00:04:29,996 Speaker 3: be able to take with you after this, because if 92 00:04:30,076 --> 00:04:32,396 Speaker 3: you start to just pay attention to how you feel 93 00:04:32,556 --> 00:04:34,716 Speaker 3: in the moment when you're engaging with a particular behavior, 94 00:04:34,756 --> 00:04:36,876 Speaker 3: whether it's on or off a screen, you'll be able 95 00:04:36,876 --> 00:04:39,076 Speaker 3: to make more intelligent choices about just how to spend 96 00:04:39,076 --> 00:04:41,436 Speaker 3: your time. So it can actually be just really helpful. 97 00:04:41,476 --> 00:04:42,716 Speaker 3: And if you just have a little trigger in the 98 00:04:42,716 --> 00:04:44,076 Speaker 3: back of your mind to be like, huh, how am 99 00:04:44,116 --> 00:04:47,476 Speaker 3: I feeling right now? Does this feel nourishing and good 100 00:04:47,596 --> 00:04:50,116 Speaker 3: or productive or helpful? Or is this making me feel 101 00:04:50,116 --> 00:04:52,956 Speaker 3: anxious or upset or depressed or scared or sad or 102 00:04:52,996 --> 00:04:55,476 Speaker 3: even more of those those things? And if you do 103 00:04:55,596 --> 00:04:59,356 Speaker 3: have a choice in that moment, then just simply consider 104 00:04:59,516 --> 00:05:01,196 Speaker 3: taking the other fork in that path. 105 00:05:01,916 --> 00:05:02,836 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's lovely. 106 00:05:02,916 --> 00:05:04,836 Speaker 2: You also use this wonderful analogy in one of your 107 00:05:04,836 --> 00:05:07,316 Speaker 2: recent articles that the way we think about screens should 108 00:05:07,356 --> 00:05:09,036 Speaker 2: be kind of the way we think about food and 109 00:05:09,156 --> 00:05:10,956 Speaker 2: nutrit is eating. Do you want to just explain that 110 00:05:11,036 --> 00:05:11,716 Speaker 2: analogy a bit. 111 00:05:12,076 --> 00:05:14,196 Speaker 3: Yeah, I've been thinking about screen time in terms of 112 00:05:14,236 --> 00:05:16,956 Speaker 3: food in the sense that there's many different types of food. 113 00:05:17,116 --> 00:05:19,516 Speaker 3: So when people say, always spend too much time on 114 00:05:19,596 --> 00:05:21,596 Speaker 3: my screens, that's the same as just saying, oh, well, 115 00:05:21,636 --> 00:05:24,116 Speaker 3: I eat too much food, right, But there's different types 116 00:05:24,156 --> 00:05:26,196 Speaker 3: of food, and you also well, in the case of food, 117 00:05:26,236 --> 00:05:27,476 Speaker 3: you do need some of it, but some of our 118 00:05:27,516 --> 00:05:29,676 Speaker 3: screen time is necessary for our careers. What have you? 119 00:05:29,996 --> 00:05:31,716 Speaker 3: So I like to instead say, well, what are your 120 00:05:31,876 --> 00:05:34,156 Speaker 3: kind of food groups for screen time? You know, how 121 00:05:34,156 --> 00:05:36,116 Speaker 3: can you break it down to think about which parts 122 00:05:36,156 --> 00:05:40,476 Speaker 3: are then good for you foods, the kale and the vegetables, whatever, 123 00:05:40,676 --> 00:05:43,316 Speaker 3: Which parts of the total junk foods that maybe do 124 00:05:43,436 --> 00:05:46,076 Speaker 3: comfort you and make you feel better in small quantities, 125 00:05:46,076 --> 00:05:48,156 Speaker 3: but then make you feel really gross. You know, how 126 00:05:48,156 --> 00:05:50,796 Speaker 3: can you actually take care of yourself and nourish yourself 127 00:05:50,796 --> 00:05:53,796 Speaker 3: with screen time with a similar similar approach that you 128 00:05:53,836 --> 00:05:56,156 Speaker 3: take towards food. And for me, that's been really helpful 129 00:05:56,156 --> 00:05:58,396 Speaker 3: because it's been able to like break, you know, have 130 00:05:58,436 --> 00:05:59,836 Speaker 3: a visual in my head kind of like one of 131 00:05:59,876 --> 00:06:02,356 Speaker 3: those food perramids of the different types of screen time 132 00:06:02,676 --> 00:06:06,076 Speaker 3: that gives me a tool with which to just make 133 00:06:06,196 --> 00:06:07,516 Speaker 3: smarter choices for myself. 134 00:06:07,636 --> 00:06:09,316 Speaker 2: And I love that analogy because I feel that too. 135 00:06:09,396 --> 00:06:11,876 Speaker 2: I feel like the nutritiousness of my panic scrolling on 136 00:06:11,916 --> 00:06:14,196 Speaker 2: Twitter is just like, you know, that's just like the 137 00:06:14,236 --> 00:06:16,516 Speaker 2: most gross thing, especially if I do a ton of time. 138 00:06:16,556 --> 00:06:18,796 Speaker 2: But like a zoom call with my mom or like 139 00:06:18,836 --> 00:06:21,796 Speaker 2: doing an online yoga class with friends, like that's the kale, 140 00:06:21,836 --> 00:06:23,636 Speaker 2: Like I need more of that in my life, especially 141 00:06:23,716 --> 00:06:25,116 Speaker 2: during COVID nineteen or. 142 00:06:25,076 --> 00:06:28,596 Speaker 3: That's like like kill doesn't seem as pleasant enough for 143 00:06:28,676 --> 00:06:30,476 Speaker 3: what you just described. It's like, I don't know, some 144 00:06:30,596 --> 00:06:30,956 Speaker 3: kind of. 145 00:06:31,036 --> 00:06:33,716 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really it's like a nice sie bowl, the yoga. 146 00:06:33,476 --> 00:06:36,076 Speaker 3: Classes with friends, talking life, Oh my god. Keen Way 147 00:06:36,156 --> 00:06:38,156 Speaker 3: is definitely involved in like a really tasty way. 148 00:06:39,676 --> 00:06:41,556 Speaker 2: So one of the other things about noticing how we're 149 00:06:41,556 --> 00:06:44,756 Speaker 2: feeling online is that you know, what we experience online 150 00:06:44,756 --> 00:06:47,236 Speaker 2: in terms of our emotions can enter our real life too. 151 00:06:47,396 --> 00:06:50,156 Speaker 2: I mean I noticed this myself when you know, I'm 152 00:06:50,196 --> 00:06:52,476 Speaker 2: just scrolling on Twitter and I see some scary article 153 00:06:52,516 --> 00:06:54,636 Speaker 2: about some twenty year old who's caught the virus and 154 00:06:54,676 --> 00:06:57,396 Speaker 2: in the hospital. Now I'm anxious and panicked, and then 155 00:06:57,436 --> 00:06:59,316 Speaker 2: I walk into the room with my husband, and I'm 156 00:06:59,316 --> 00:07:02,316 Speaker 2: transmitting all that anxiety and that panic to him when 157 00:07:02,436 --> 00:07:03,956 Speaker 2: you know I didn't really need to do that. And 158 00:07:04,036 --> 00:07:06,676 Speaker 2: so talk a little bit about how how the kind 159 00:07:06,676 --> 00:07:09,596 Speaker 2: of the stuff we catch online can come can become 160 00:07:09,636 --> 00:07:11,716 Speaker 2: part of our normal lives in a way that we 161 00:07:11,756 --> 00:07:12,676 Speaker 2: might not anticipate. 162 00:07:13,956 --> 00:07:15,676 Speaker 3: I think we need to be very conscious about what 163 00:07:15,716 --> 00:07:18,996 Speaker 3: we're exposing ourselves to in general, because just as exposing 164 00:07:19,116 --> 00:07:22,276 Speaker 3: yourself to a virus can make you physically sick, exposing 165 00:07:22,316 --> 00:07:26,116 Speaker 3: yourself to stressful or anxiety producing content can really have 166 00:07:26,156 --> 00:07:28,236 Speaker 3: an effect on your mental state, and that in turn 167 00:07:28,316 --> 00:07:30,916 Speaker 3: can be transmitted to the other people that you're self 168 00:07:30,956 --> 00:07:33,636 Speaker 3: isolating with right now. And if you do have a 169 00:07:33,756 --> 00:07:37,556 Speaker 3: choice of exposing yourself to content that makes you feel 170 00:07:38,676 --> 00:07:44,596 Speaker 3: calm versus Twitter, then maybe we could choose the calm content. 171 00:07:44,636 --> 00:07:46,636 Speaker 3: It's kind of like a person making a movie who's 172 00:07:46,716 --> 00:07:49,276 Speaker 3: choosing where to turn their camera. There's a lot of 173 00:07:49,276 --> 00:07:52,476 Speaker 3: different things we could be choosing to put that camera 174 00:07:52,556 --> 00:07:54,596 Speaker 3: on right now, whether it's on our screens or off 175 00:07:54,596 --> 00:07:56,556 Speaker 3: of our screens, and it's up to us to choose 176 00:07:56,556 --> 00:07:57,876 Speaker 3: where that focus is going to be. 177 00:07:57,996 --> 00:07:59,956 Speaker 2: So the goal isn't just to reduce our screen time 178 00:07:59,996 --> 00:08:02,076 Speaker 2: generally or just for the sake of it. It's actually 179 00:08:02,116 --> 00:08:04,676 Speaker 2: to use our mindfulness muscles to make sure we're strategically 180 00:08:04,756 --> 00:08:06,716 Speaker 2: using screens in a way that's going to boost our 181 00:08:06,716 --> 00:08:09,076 Speaker 2: well being rather than heard it. And so when we 182 00:08:09,156 --> 00:08:10,636 Speaker 2: get back from the break, I'm going to have Catherine 183 00:08:10,676 --> 00:08:13,036 Speaker 2: dive into some more specific tips about how we can 184 00:08:13,036 --> 00:08:14,796 Speaker 2: all do that. The Happiness Lab will. 185 00:08:14,676 --> 00:08:15,236 Speaker 1: Be right back. 186 00:08:22,396 --> 00:08:24,196 Speaker 2: So I wanted to dig into some of your specific 187 00:08:24,236 --> 00:08:26,356 Speaker 2: tips for how we can achieve some screen life balance 188 00:08:26,436 --> 00:08:29,156 Speaker 2: during this challenging time because their screens aren't going away. 189 00:08:29,156 --> 00:08:31,236 Speaker 2: I mean, in some sense we need them even more 190 00:08:31,276 --> 00:08:33,596 Speaker 2: now to work and connect with the people we care about, 191 00:08:33,996 --> 00:08:36,276 Speaker 2: maybe even to just enjoy some Netflix comedies. 192 00:08:36,396 --> 00:08:38,036 Speaker 1: But we also need to use all this. 193 00:08:37,996 --> 00:08:40,996 Speaker 2: Screen time a little bit more nutritiously, and so one 194 00:08:41,036 --> 00:08:43,396 Speaker 2: of the first tips you've mentioned before is to set 195 00:08:43,436 --> 00:08:45,716 Speaker 2: up a set of goals and principles for how we're 196 00:08:45,796 --> 00:08:48,796 Speaker 2: using our screen time, almost like a daily screen time budget. 197 00:08:49,116 --> 00:08:51,556 Speaker 3: In my normal non pandemic life, I like to think 198 00:08:51,556 --> 00:08:53,636 Speaker 3: about screen time in terms of a budget in the 199 00:08:53,636 --> 00:08:55,916 Speaker 3: same way that I think about money as having a budget, 200 00:08:55,956 --> 00:08:58,316 Speaker 3: with the idea being that there's lots of powerful interests, 201 00:08:58,356 --> 00:09:00,156 Speaker 3: I e. A lot of the companies behind these apps 202 00:09:00,156 --> 00:09:02,236 Speaker 3: who really want to take our time and attention from 203 00:09:02,356 --> 00:09:04,156 Speaker 3: us because it is how they make money. And so, 204 00:09:04,316 --> 00:09:09,676 Speaker 3: just as you'd protect your actual money from thieves, protect 205 00:09:09,716 --> 00:09:12,076 Speaker 3: your time and attention from people who want to take 206 00:09:12,116 --> 00:09:14,276 Speaker 3: it from you. But right now I think that there's 207 00:09:14,316 --> 00:09:17,796 Speaker 3: an extra element of necessity here because it's having such 208 00:09:17,796 --> 00:09:20,436 Speaker 3: an emotional impact on you. For my own screen time, 209 00:09:20,476 --> 00:09:23,876 Speaker 3: I've been thinking about it in terms of three c's, 210 00:09:23,956 --> 00:09:28,836 Speaker 3: the consumption, creation, and connection. So consumption being just taking 211 00:09:28,836 --> 00:09:31,716 Speaker 3: stuff in that could be reading the news, which for 212 00:09:31,756 --> 00:09:34,636 Speaker 3: me is never a good idea, or watching something or 213 00:09:34,676 --> 00:09:38,276 Speaker 3: reading something from someone else. And then creation, what can 214 00:09:38,316 --> 00:09:40,876 Speaker 3: you actually create? And for that you know, some people 215 00:09:40,956 --> 00:09:42,836 Speaker 3: may be like, I don't have any energy for creation. 216 00:09:42,916 --> 00:09:44,876 Speaker 3: You have to be kidding me, Like that is ridiculous 217 00:09:44,876 --> 00:09:46,716 Speaker 3: to even suggest that I create something during such a 218 00:09:46,756 --> 00:09:49,436 Speaker 3: stressful time. But there are other people, myself included, for 219 00:09:49,476 --> 00:09:51,996 Speaker 3: which that's actually like a self soothing mechanism, Like my 220 00:09:52,036 --> 00:09:53,676 Speaker 3: brain needs to do something, so if I can do 221 00:09:53,716 --> 00:09:56,156 Speaker 3: something creative, it makes me feel better. And then connection 222 00:09:56,196 --> 00:09:58,436 Speaker 3: I think everyone can relate to because we're all desperate 223 00:09:58,436 --> 00:10:00,796 Speaker 3: for human connection right now, and so if you're using 224 00:10:00,796 --> 00:10:02,996 Speaker 3: your screen in a way that's bringing you closer to 225 00:10:03,236 --> 00:10:05,716 Speaker 3: someone else in a way that feels good, I think 226 00:10:05,756 --> 00:10:07,516 Speaker 3: that's a beautiful use of screens. 227 00:10:07,756 --> 00:10:09,636 Speaker 2: I love these tips for figuring out which of the 228 00:10:09,636 --> 00:10:12,156 Speaker 2: different parts you're using and maybe to even balance them 229 00:10:12,156 --> 00:10:14,636 Speaker 2: over time, like because I could imagine, even for me, 230 00:10:14,756 --> 00:10:17,196 Speaker 2: the connection part, if I do that too much, you know, 231 00:10:17,236 --> 00:10:18,836 Speaker 2: it gets to kind of be a lot. You know, 232 00:10:18,876 --> 00:10:21,556 Speaker 2: even the most healthy stuff like in excess, can be 233 00:10:21,596 --> 00:10:22,476 Speaker 2: a little bit too much. 234 00:10:22,796 --> 00:10:25,276 Speaker 3: I think it's interesting to realize, like you just pointed out, 235 00:10:25,316 --> 00:10:28,836 Speaker 3: that you can have something positive in excess. You know, 236 00:10:28,876 --> 00:10:31,516 Speaker 3: there's so many like zoom happy hours happening now, or 237 00:10:31,556 --> 00:10:34,156 Speaker 3: my husband and my our social calendar is like packed 238 00:10:34,276 --> 00:10:38,156 Speaker 3: because got all these people stranded at home with this 239 00:10:38,436 --> 00:10:40,916 Speaker 3: desire to connect. So we've been trying to make a 240 00:10:40,956 --> 00:10:45,556 Speaker 3: point of actually deliberately taking breaks from our screens, for example, 241 00:10:45,676 --> 00:10:49,116 Speaker 3: just going for a socially isolated walk without your phone 242 00:10:49,436 --> 00:10:52,836 Speaker 3: and just trying to be present in whatever surroundings you're in, 243 00:10:52,996 --> 00:10:56,396 Speaker 3: just to take a break from this subconscious feeling of 244 00:10:56,436 --> 00:10:59,876 Speaker 3: needing to respond and be available. One thing I really 245 00:10:59,876 --> 00:11:01,636 Speaker 3: love is like taking a whole night where you turn 246 00:11:01,676 --> 00:11:05,276 Speaker 3: off all of your screens and actually just be with 247 00:11:05,316 --> 00:11:07,676 Speaker 3: the people that you're with. You might decide that maybe 248 00:11:07,676 --> 00:11:10,436 Speaker 3: you don't want to do like full on no screens 249 00:11:10,476 --> 00:11:12,676 Speaker 3: at all, Maybe you want to put away your individual 250 00:11:12,716 --> 00:11:15,876 Speaker 3: devices and do something together like watch a movie where 251 00:11:15,956 --> 00:11:18,876 Speaker 3: everyone is actually sitting together watching the movie instead of 252 00:11:18,916 --> 00:11:21,116 Speaker 3: everyone checking Twitter while watching the movie, which are very 253 00:11:21,116 --> 00:11:26,116 Speaker 3: different experiences. And I personally highly recommend not checking the 254 00:11:26,156 --> 00:11:29,076 Speaker 3: news after a certain point each night. If you're exposing 255 00:11:29,076 --> 00:11:32,476 Speaker 3: yourself to endless stories about coronavirus right before bed, of 256 00:11:32,516 --> 00:11:34,436 Speaker 3: course you're not going to sleep well. And also you 257 00:11:34,476 --> 00:11:36,636 Speaker 3: can't do anything with that information. It's not going to 258 00:11:36,756 --> 00:11:38,796 Speaker 3: change any behavior that you would have had from six 259 00:11:38,876 --> 00:11:41,276 Speaker 3: pm to midnight. I am willing to bet. 260 00:11:41,076 --> 00:11:43,196 Speaker 2: This has been a huge one for me. Just during 261 00:11:43,196 --> 00:11:46,076 Speaker 2: the time of coronavirus, I finally started doing the tip 262 00:11:46,116 --> 00:11:47,996 Speaker 2: that I've given to everyone, which is to put your 263 00:11:47,996 --> 00:11:49,916 Speaker 2: phone to bed at a certain time. My phone now 264 00:11:49,956 --> 00:11:52,476 Speaker 2: goes to bed around seven thirty, where I like shut 265 00:11:52,516 --> 00:11:55,396 Speaker 2: it off and stick away and I only do physical 266 00:11:55,396 --> 00:11:57,876 Speaker 2: stuff like read physical books or do yoga or whatever. 267 00:11:58,116 --> 00:12:00,476 Speaker 2: And it's been huge for my sleep, Like I can't 268 00:12:00,476 --> 00:12:02,876 Speaker 2: even express how much better my sleep has been, just 269 00:12:03,036 --> 00:12:05,796 Speaker 2: like not checking my phone right before I go to bed. 270 00:12:05,996 --> 00:12:09,196 Speaker 3: I think that's an interesting point and consequence of what 271 00:12:09,276 --> 00:12:12,076 Speaker 3: we're living through right now is that this contrast between 272 00:12:12,996 --> 00:12:16,916 Speaker 3: screen activities and off screen activities is becoming very dramatic. 273 00:12:16,956 --> 00:12:19,516 Speaker 3: It's really clarifying things to people, I think, because you 274 00:12:19,556 --> 00:12:22,396 Speaker 3: suddenly realize there's a real difference in how you feel 275 00:12:22,676 --> 00:12:24,996 Speaker 3: doing one versus the other. And there's nothing wrong with 276 00:12:25,036 --> 00:12:26,676 Speaker 3: reading a book on your kindle or your phone. But 277 00:12:26,996 --> 00:12:30,476 Speaker 3: it's interesting that because we're having such huge exposure to 278 00:12:30,516 --> 00:12:33,556 Speaker 3: screen time right now, it's becoming easier to see the 279 00:12:33,596 --> 00:12:36,276 Speaker 3: difference in how offscreen things make us feel. And I 280 00:12:36,276 --> 00:12:39,996 Speaker 3: think it's really important to recognize that we're not just 281 00:12:40,076 --> 00:12:42,596 Speaker 3: heads on top of bodies, you know, we actually are 282 00:12:42,836 --> 00:12:47,836 Speaker 3: creatures who have physical bodies also, and those bodies need 283 00:12:47,876 --> 00:12:50,236 Speaker 3: to be nurtured, you know, which is simple as like 284 00:12:50,316 --> 00:12:53,196 Speaker 3: taking a bath. Like I haven't taken a bath and 285 00:12:53,236 --> 00:12:54,716 Speaker 3: I don't know how long, and I've gone to bathsup 286 00:12:54,716 --> 00:12:56,636 Speaker 3: the other day and I'm like, where's this been my 287 00:12:56,676 --> 00:12:58,516 Speaker 3: whole life? Like this is delightful. 288 00:13:00,436 --> 00:13:02,716 Speaker 2: I love that tip and your idea of taking the 289 00:13:02,756 --> 00:13:04,476 Speaker 2: bath when you haven't taken one in a long time 290 00:13:04,556 --> 00:13:06,516 Speaker 2: leads me to one of your other tips, which I love, 291 00:13:06,596 --> 00:13:10,156 Speaker 2: which is to explicitly write down list of non screen 292 00:13:10,196 --> 00:13:12,716 Speaker 2: time activities that you actually love to do so that 293 00:13:12,756 --> 00:13:14,916 Speaker 2: you'll remember them when the urge to kind of pop 294 00:13:14,916 --> 00:13:16,556 Speaker 2: on the screen mindlessly comes up. 295 00:13:16,876 --> 00:13:19,356 Speaker 3: Yeah, I strongly encourage that people take a few minutes 296 00:13:19,396 --> 00:13:23,076 Speaker 3: to write down a list of non screen activities that 297 00:13:23,116 --> 00:13:25,756 Speaker 3: make them feel good. And the reason I say that 298 00:13:25,956 --> 00:13:29,316 Speaker 3: is because when we're stressed out, the part of our 299 00:13:29,316 --> 00:13:32,556 Speaker 3: brain that's in charge of rational decision making, the prefrontal cortex, 300 00:13:32,596 --> 00:13:34,796 Speaker 3: goes out the window. It's like see you later, like 301 00:13:34,876 --> 00:13:36,556 Speaker 3: exactly the moment when you need it the most, and 302 00:13:36,596 --> 00:13:39,396 Speaker 3: instead we tend to go to things that provide quick fixes. So, 303 00:13:39,436 --> 00:13:41,196 Speaker 3: whether that's checking the news, even though it doesn't make 304 00:13:41,236 --> 00:13:43,116 Speaker 3: you feel good, it's still a quick fix of information, 305 00:13:43,476 --> 00:13:45,356 Speaker 3: or getting a drink, or doing something that's like not 306 00:13:45,396 --> 00:13:47,756 Speaker 3: really that good for yourself, and you know it's not 307 00:13:47,796 --> 00:13:49,756 Speaker 3: good for you, but you don't really have the ability 308 00:13:49,756 --> 00:13:52,276 Speaker 3: in that moment of stress to make a rational decision, 309 00:13:52,676 --> 00:13:55,196 Speaker 3: so you want to make it as easy as possible. 310 00:13:55,436 --> 00:13:58,236 Speaker 3: To choose activities that actually are good for you, or 311 00:13:58,236 --> 00:14:00,196 Speaker 3: that feel good or that nourish you. And one of 312 00:14:00,196 --> 00:14:01,676 Speaker 3: the best ways to do that is just make a 313 00:14:01,716 --> 00:14:04,316 Speaker 3: list of activities ahead of time, so that when you 314 00:14:04,356 --> 00:14:07,676 Speaker 3: do have a moment of downtime, instead of instinctively reaching 315 00:14:07,716 --> 00:14:09,476 Speaker 3: for your phone, which for many of us is that 316 00:14:09,596 --> 00:14:12,556 Speaker 3: quick fix, you have alternatives at the ready. So it 317 00:14:12,596 --> 00:14:14,676 Speaker 3: could be taking a bath, it could be listening to 318 00:14:14,716 --> 00:14:16,596 Speaker 3: a podcast, which, yeah, that would be using your phone, 319 00:14:16,636 --> 00:14:18,676 Speaker 3: but it's for a different purpose, doing a bit of 320 00:14:18,756 --> 00:14:21,356 Speaker 3: stretching or meditation. I mean, the choices are endless, and 321 00:14:21,396 --> 00:14:23,956 Speaker 3: it's very up to the particular person. There's no right 322 00:14:23,996 --> 00:14:24,636 Speaker 3: answer here. 323 00:14:24,916 --> 00:14:27,116 Speaker 2: I love this tip because if I look at my 324 00:14:27,156 --> 00:14:29,556 Speaker 2: own social media use, it tends to be just in 325 00:14:29,636 --> 00:14:32,796 Speaker 2: exactly those moments where it's like I finished some other task, 326 00:14:32,916 --> 00:14:35,156 Speaker 2: I have this kind of twinge of like boredom or 327 00:14:35,196 --> 00:14:36,836 Speaker 2: I'm not sure what to do next, and I'm like, 328 00:14:37,156 --> 00:14:38,996 Speaker 2: that's when I pull out Twitter. You know, That's when 329 00:14:38,996 --> 00:14:40,756 Speaker 2: I do a quick check. And there's so many other 330 00:14:40,836 --> 00:14:42,956 Speaker 2: things out enjoy more than doing that quick check. It's 331 00:14:43,036 --> 00:14:45,276 Speaker 2: just the Twitter feels like a habit. It feels like 332 00:14:45,276 --> 00:14:48,356 Speaker 2: this really low startup cost, but it's a huge opportunity 333 00:14:48,396 --> 00:14:50,196 Speaker 2: cost of other stuff in my life that I could 334 00:14:50,196 --> 00:14:51,716 Speaker 2: be doing that would make me feel better. 335 00:14:51,876 --> 00:14:53,956 Speaker 3: There is a huge opportunity cost. I think we don't 336 00:14:53,996 --> 00:14:57,556 Speaker 3: often really recognize that because your time is finite and 337 00:14:57,596 --> 00:14:59,996 Speaker 3: it's zero sum, you can't spend time or your attention 338 00:15:00,076 --> 00:15:02,516 Speaker 3: on two things at once. So for every moment that 339 00:15:02,556 --> 00:15:05,156 Speaker 3: you're spending in the black hole of Twitter, you're not 340 00:15:05,196 --> 00:15:07,436 Speaker 3: spending it on something else. And I think it's also 341 00:15:07,436 --> 00:15:09,756 Speaker 3: a great opportunity for people to experim with some of 342 00:15:09,796 --> 00:15:13,436 Speaker 3: the general screen life balance, kind of like hygiene tips 343 00:15:13,476 --> 00:15:15,996 Speaker 3: that I and others always recommend, but that can be 344 00:15:16,036 --> 00:15:18,076 Speaker 3: hard to kind of motivate to do in your daily life. 345 00:15:18,116 --> 00:15:20,196 Speaker 3: Like if you know that you're having a habit of 346 00:15:20,276 --> 00:15:23,036 Speaker 3: just going on Twitter, and you're really aware right now 347 00:15:23,036 --> 00:15:25,036 Speaker 3: that that's making you feel bad, maybe this is the 348 00:15:25,036 --> 00:15:27,156 Speaker 3: time to experiment with taking Twitter off your phone for 349 00:15:27,196 --> 00:15:30,036 Speaker 3: a couple of days. I really recommend people take news 350 00:15:30,116 --> 00:15:34,756 Speaker 3: apps off their phones right now. I mean, why why 351 00:15:34,836 --> 00:15:37,276 Speaker 3: have those on your phones? You won't forget to check 352 00:15:37,276 --> 00:15:39,156 Speaker 3: the news. You just won't forget to check the news 353 00:15:39,236 --> 00:15:41,276 Speaker 3: right now. Then if you take it off of your phone, 354 00:15:41,276 --> 00:15:44,716 Speaker 3: you're essentially doing what psychiatrists would call reducing your ease 355 00:15:44,716 --> 00:15:47,956 Speaker 3: of access to the problematic substance. So of course, if 356 00:15:47,956 --> 00:15:51,036 Speaker 3: you have access to Twitter and Facebook and Instagram and 357 00:15:51,236 --> 00:15:54,036 Speaker 3: sixteen different news sources on your phone and you're stressed out, 358 00:15:54,156 --> 00:15:55,396 Speaker 3: you're going to go to those things. 359 00:15:55,556 --> 00:15:57,196 Speaker 2: Another thing I know you've talked about is that the 360 00:15:57,236 --> 00:15:59,556 Speaker 2: screen life balance that we need in our lives isn't 361 00:15:59,636 --> 00:16:01,556 Speaker 2: just for us, you know, the adults in our family. 362 00:16:01,636 --> 00:16:03,996 Speaker 2: We also need to think about how to balance screen 363 00:16:04,076 --> 00:16:05,276 Speaker 2: time for our kids too. 364 00:16:05,316 --> 00:16:07,276 Speaker 3: Writ And I don't want to sound like some schoolmarm. 365 00:16:07,356 --> 00:16:10,476 Speaker 3: I mean my own child is literally watching Daniel Tiger 366 00:16:10,516 --> 00:16:13,636 Speaker 3: as we were having this conversation because it's a rainy day. 367 00:16:13,796 --> 00:16:15,996 Speaker 3: But I also think there's you know, there's just a 368 00:16:15,996 --> 00:16:18,796 Speaker 3: lot of other stuff to do. I mean, you can 369 00:16:18,836 --> 00:16:21,116 Speaker 3: get very creative about it, especially with little kids. Like 370 00:16:22,116 --> 00:16:23,876 Speaker 3: we've been looking for worms a lot, Lori. We've been 371 00:16:23,876 --> 00:16:25,476 Speaker 3: going on worm hunts and we just go out and 372 00:16:25,516 --> 00:16:27,636 Speaker 3: she pulls up moss and tries to find worms, and 373 00:16:27,676 --> 00:16:30,556 Speaker 3: then that's been entertaining her for quite a long time. 374 00:16:30,676 --> 00:16:33,076 Speaker 3: So I think a lot of parents are really stressed 375 00:16:33,076 --> 00:16:35,596 Speaker 3: out about how their kids are possibly going to quote 376 00:16:35,636 --> 00:16:38,676 Speaker 3: unquote catch up in school once they go back to school. 377 00:16:38,916 --> 00:16:41,236 Speaker 3: I think it's a really interesting concern because if you 378 00:16:41,276 --> 00:16:46,116 Speaker 3: think critically about what typically happens in school and what 379 00:16:46,836 --> 00:16:48,636 Speaker 3: is there is not accomplished, or how much time is 380 00:16:48,676 --> 00:16:52,316 Speaker 3: wasted just trying to manage classrooms, there's a lot of 381 00:16:52,316 --> 00:16:54,276 Speaker 3: time that's not actually use that efficiently. What do you 382 00:16:54,316 --> 00:16:56,836 Speaker 3: actually want them to be able to do or have 383 00:16:56,956 --> 00:16:59,676 Speaker 3: learned at the end of this pandemic that you think 384 00:16:59,676 --> 00:17:01,276 Speaker 3: they're going to miss in school, And if you start 385 00:17:01,316 --> 00:17:04,396 Speaker 3: from that outcome, then you can come up with creative 386 00:17:04,396 --> 00:17:07,236 Speaker 3: ways to achieve the same results, whether it's on or 387 00:17:07,236 --> 00:17:09,636 Speaker 3: off a screen. So I personally, I think it's interesting 388 00:17:09,676 --> 00:17:11,556 Speaker 3: that everyone's kind of going to the let's just lecture 389 00:17:11,596 --> 00:17:15,076 Speaker 3: to kids online and that's just seems so boring and 390 00:17:15,156 --> 00:17:17,916 Speaker 3: kind of fruitless, as opposed to saying, Okay, well, maybe 391 00:17:17,916 --> 00:17:19,676 Speaker 3: you could say these are the skills or the types 392 00:17:19,676 --> 00:17:21,676 Speaker 3: of questions I want kids to be able to answer 393 00:17:21,716 --> 00:17:23,396 Speaker 3: at the end of this time, and giving them a 394 00:17:23,436 --> 00:17:25,756 Speaker 3: bit more freedom and independence to figure out ways to 395 00:17:25,916 --> 00:17:29,436 Speaker 3: accomplish that knowledge or achieve that knowledge. 396 00:17:29,516 --> 00:17:31,476 Speaker 2: But it sounds like one of the main tips is 397 00:17:31,476 --> 00:17:33,636 Speaker 2: the same as it is for adults, which is it 398 00:17:33,716 --> 00:17:36,676 Speaker 2: we need to be mindful of how our screen time 399 00:17:36,716 --> 00:17:38,796 Speaker 2: and the rules around screen time are making us feel. 400 00:17:39,036 --> 00:17:42,436 Speaker 2: You know, if it's making us feel kind of, you know, good, 401 00:17:42,516 --> 00:17:44,836 Speaker 2: then that's okay. But if it's making us feel judged 402 00:17:44,876 --> 00:17:47,236 Speaker 2: and feel overwhelmed and like we're a bad parent, then 403 00:17:47,236 --> 00:17:48,436 Speaker 2: we need to listen to that too. 404 00:17:48,716 --> 00:17:50,916 Speaker 3: Yes, I think the same rules apply for kids as 405 00:17:50,916 --> 00:17:53,436 Speaker 3: they do with adults, which is that it's not necessarily 406 00:17:53,436 --> 00:17:55,476 Speaker 3: the amount of screen time that matters. It's what we're 407 00:17:55,476 --> 00:17:57,076 Speaker 3: doing with it, what we're getting out of it, and 408 00:17:57,116 --> 00:17:59,556 Speaker 3: how it's making us feel. So we should be intentional 409 00:17:59,596 --> 00:18:01,596 Speaker 3: about our children's screen time in the same way that 410 00:18:01,596 --> 00:18:03,836 Speaker 3: we are for our own. So we should not just 411 00:18:03,916 --> 00:18:06,556 Speaker 3: default to screens for the sake of defaulting to screens, 412 00:18:06,556 --> 00:18:10,076 Speaker 3: but actually ask is that useful? Is it giving the 413 00:18:10,156 --> 00:18:12,036 Speaker 3: kids something? Is it making them feel good? What's the 414 00:18:12,036 --> 00:18:14,276 Speaker 3: opportunity cost of all the time on the screen? I 415 00:18:14,276 --> 00:18:17,276 Speaker 3: also always recommend actually having a conversation with your child. 416 00:18:17,796 --> 00:18:19,876 Speaker 3: If they're older than like five, you actually can have 417 00:18:19,916 --> 00:18:23,036 Speaker 3: a conversation about this and say, let's figure out what 418 00:18:23,116 --> 00:18:25,556 Speaker 3: we use our screens for. Let's come up with an 419 00:18:25,596 --> 00:18:28,116 Speaker 3: I list of ideas for off screen activities that we 420 00:18:28,156 --> 00:18:31,196 Speaker 3: could do together or individually, involve them in that process, 421 00:18:31,516 --> 00:18:33,156 Speaker 3: and then give them a bit more of a sense 422 00:18:33,196 --> 00:18:35,756 Speaker 3: of control over figuring out a schedule that works for them, 423 00:18:35,756 --> 00:18:37,436 Speaker 3: because I think a lot of the tension comes from 424 00:18:37,476 --> 00:18:40,076 Speaker 3: parents trying to control the kids without allowing the kids 425 00:18:40,116 --> 00:18:42,116 Speaker 3: to have any kind of input into it. So I 426 00:18:42,116 --> 00:18:44,636 Speaker 3: think making it into a family conversation can be really helpful, 427 00:18:44,636 --> 00:18:46,156 Speaker 3: and again goes to the idea that there is an 428 00:18:46,156 --> 00:18:50,876 Speaker 3: opportunity here to develop some structures and templates for conversations 429 00:18:50,876 --> 00:18:54,276 Speaker 3: that really can be helpful after this passes, after we 430 00:18:54,316 --> 00:18:56,556 Speaker 3: go back to normal, both in terms of children's screen 431 00:18:56,596 --> 00:18:59,276 Speaker 3: time and parents screen time, and listening to what your 432 00:18:59,356 --> 00:19:00,836 Speaker 3: kids have to say about you too. 433 00:19:01,516 --> 00:19:03,676 Speaker 2: I think that's part of the final tip I wanted 434 00:19:03,716 --> 00:19:05,596 Speaker 2: to get into, which is your idea that we should 435 00:19:05,716 --> 00:19:07,556 Speaker 2: do as much as we can right now to set 436 00:19:07,596 --> 00:19:10,716 Speaker 2: boundaries on the kind of information we're consuming, especially the 437 00:19:10,756 --> 00:19:12,276 Speaker 2: stuff that we don't enjoy. 438 00:19:11,996 --> 00:19:12,876 Speaker 1: Consuming that much. 439 00:19:12,916 --> 00:19:16,436 Speaker 2: So you gave this one wonderful concrete suggestion about shutting 440 00:19:16,436 --> 00:19:19,076 Speaker 2: off notifications and maybe taking apps off your phone to 441 00:19:19,116 --> 00:19:21,436 Speaker 2: create boundaries. But are there other ways we can do it, 442 00:19:21,516 --> 00:19:23,436 Speaker 2: especially for those of us who are listening who might 443 00:19:23,436 --> 00:19:25,556 Speaker 2: be kind of hesitant to take you know, Twitter and 444 00:19:25,596 --> 00:19:26,836 Speaker 2: Facebook off their phone. 445 00:19:27,196 --> 00:19:29,276 Speaker 3: Well, first of all, I would say you can do it, guys, 446 00:19:29,356 --> 00:19:32,516 Speaker 3: like you could literally delete that app and then thirty 447 00:19:32,556 --> 00:19:35,156 Speaker 3: seconds say that woman I just listened to is an idiot. 448 00:19:35,196 --> 00:19:36,716 Speaker 3: I want it back on my phone and just put 449 00:19:36,716 --> 00:19:39,116 Speaker 3: it back on, no one stopping you. So just get 450 00:19:39,196 --> 00:19:41,556 Speaker 3: curious about it, experiments, see what it's like, and it 451 00:19:41,556 --> 00:19:44,036 Speaker 3: could differ by the day. But I think in general 452 00:19:44,356 --> 00:19:46,996 Speaker 3: we need boundaries in all areas of our life right 453 00:19:47,036 --> 00:19:49,716 Speaker 3: now because so many of us are working from home, 454 00:19:50,076 --> 00:19:52,596 Speaker 3: so we don't have any boundaries between work and normal life. 455 00:19:52,636 --> 00:19:54,956 Speaker 3: We don't have any boundaries between kid care and our 456 00:19:54,956 --> 00:19:57,596 Speaker 3: own personal time. No boundaries. There's no boundaries, no boundaries 457 00:19:57,636 --> 00:20:00,316 Speaker 3: between the news, no boundaries with screens. We're just like 458 00:20:00,356 --> 00:20:04,236 Speaker 3: in the state of uncertainty and anxiety with no boundaries. 459 00:20:04,276 --> 00:20:05,956 Speaker 3: And when you think about it in that context, it 460 00:20:05,996 --> 00:20:07,676 Speaker 3: makes sense that a lot of us are feeling pretty 461 00:20:07,716 --> 00:20:10,836 Speaker 3: crazy right now. I think having as a guiding principle 462 00:20:11,316 --> 00:20:13,556 Speaker 3: as you think about your life, the idea of what 463 00:20:13,636 --> 00:20:16,756 Speaker 3: boundaries would make me feel better? How could I create 464 00:20:17,116 --> 00:20:20,436 Speaker 3: lines and divisions between these parts of my life. But 465 00:20:20,516 --> 00:20:24,196 Speaker 3: for example, figuring out how you can create a ritual 466 00:20:24,236 --> 00:20:26,996 Speaker 3: that shows that you're starting your workday versus ending your workday. 467 00:20:27,636 --> 00:20:30,276 Speaker 3: You know, rituals that mark when you are are not 468 00:20:30,516 --> 00:20:33,036 Speaker 3: interacting with screens or in what ways, Like maybe you 469 00:20:33,116 --> 00:20:35,636 Speaker 3: have if you have multiple devices, maybe you use one 470 00:20:35,676 --> 00:20:38,516 Speaker 3: for one purpose and then another for another purpose. Or 471 00:20:38,516 --> 00:20:40,756 Speaker 3: maybe don't check your phone your news from your phone, 472 00:20:40,756 --> 00:20:43,396 Speaker 3: but you check it from the desktop. Don't answer emails 473 00:20:43,436 --> 00:20:46,996 Speaker 3: from your phone, because again that's really not efficient, instead 474 00:20:47,076 --> 00:20:52,756 Speaker 3: do that from your computer. Get actual physical distance between things, so, 475 00:20:52,796 --> 00:20:56,356 Speaker 3: for example, create a charging station for your phone that 476 00:20:56,396 --> 00:20:59,796 Speaker 3: is not in your bedroom so that you're not instinctively 477 00:20:59,836 --> 00:21:01,676 Speaker 3: reaching for your phone right before bed and going into 478 00:21:01,716 --> 00:21:04,476 Speaker 3: a Twitter spiral. If you're worried about people being able 479 00:21:04,476 --> 00:21:06,436 Speaker 3: to call you, you can always create a group of 480 00:21:06,556 --> 00:21:09,556 Speaker 3: VIP contacts and then turn the do not disturb on 481 00:21:09,636 --> 00:21:11,716 Speaker 3: in general, but allow those calls to come in and 482 00:21:11,756 --> 00:21:13,716 Speaker 3: turn your ringer on. And now you've created a way 483 00:21:13,756 --> 00:21:16,076 Speaker 3: to keep a physical boundary between yourself and your phone. 484 00:21:16,076 --> 00:21:18,356 Speaker 3: But you're not worried about missing a call from somebody 485 00:21:18,356 --> 00:21:20,476 Speaker 3: that you want to hear from, but just keep in 486 00:21:20,516 --> 00:21:22,756 Speaker 3: mind the idea of which parts of your life seem 487 00:21:22,836 --> 00:21:25,316 Speaker 3: to be blending together in ways that don't feel healthy, 488 00:21:25,836 --> 00:21:30,876 Speaker 3: and then what rituals or practices could you experiment with 489 00:21:30,956 --> 00:21:34,316 Speaker 3: that might enable you to feel a bit more organized 490 00:21:34,356 --> 00:21:35,676 Speaker 3: in your mental world. 491 00:21:35,956 --> 00:21:38,676 Speaker 2: That's awesome, And so if your listeners want to hear 492 00:21:38,756 --> 00:21:40,996 Speaker 2: more tips, you've actually set up a resource that they 493 00:21:41,036 --> 00:21:43,356 Speaker 2: can go to during this time of COVID nineteen. Right. 494 00:21:43,556 --> 00:21:46,156 Speaker 3: Yeah, I have a website, screen lifebalance dot com, and 495 00:21:46,196 --> 00:21:48,156 Speaker 3: you can sign up for my newsletter, and I've basically 496 00:21:48,156 --> 00:21:50,596 Speaker 3: been trying to send out newsletters once or twice a 497 00:21:50,596 --> 00:21:53,276 Speaker 3: week that contains suggestions for some of these things how 498 00:21:53,316 --> 00:21:56,556 Speaker 3: to maintain screen life balance and sanity during this time. 499 00:21:56,836 --> 00:21:58,636 Speaker 3: And I've really been trying to make them the newsletters 500 00:21:58,676 --> 00:22:01,156 Speaker 3: as much as I can, like self contain, so it's 501 00:22:01,156 --> 00:22:04,316 Speaker 3: not just another list of thirty five links that you 502 00:22:04,476 --> 00:22:06,236 Speaker 3: now feel that you have to click on and just 503 00:22:06,236 --> 00:22:09,356 Speaker 3: seeing the email stresses you're out, But really try trying 504 00:22:09,356 --> 00:22:13,236 Speaker 3: to help people think more intentionally about their screen time 505 00:22:13,396 --> 00:22:15,396 Speaker 3: in ways that will make them feel a little bit 506 00:22:15,436 --> 00:22:18,756 Speaker 3: more calm and less anxious and maybe even inspired during 507 00:22:18,756 --> 00:22:19,516 Speaker 3: this time. 508 00:22:21,116 --> 00:22:23,156 Speaker 2: I, for one, plan to take Catherine's advice to heart. 509 00:22:23,436 --> 00:22:26,276 Speaker 2: I've already tried to institute a few new lockdown habits 510 00:22:26,436 --> 00:22:29,516 Speaker 2: to help balance my technology time. For me, that's been 511 00:22:29,636 --> 00:22:33,076 Speaker 2: online yoga with friends, dinner with my family over Zoom, 512 00:22:33,156 --> 00:22:36,476 Speaker 2: and an awesome podcast every morning. I've also tried to 513 00:22:36,556 --> 00:22:39,116 Speaker 2: find a few more screen free things that feel good, 514 00:22:39,796 --> 00:22:41,996 Speaker 2: taking a few minutes to stare at the dogwood trees 515 00:22:41,996 --> 00:22:45,236 Speaker 2: outside my house and playing some games in real life 516 00:22:45,236 --> 00:22:47,676 Speaker 2: with my husband. I hope that you'll be able to 517 00:22:47,756 --> 00:22:50,676 Speaker 2: find a bit more screen life balance during this challenging time, 518 00:22:51,436 --> 00:22:53,076 Speaker 2: and I hope that at least one of your feel 519 00:22:53,156 --> 00:22:55,956 Speaker 2: good screen time choices will be to come back for 520 00:22:56,036 --> 00:22:59,116 Speaker 2: the next episode of The Happiness Lab with me Doctor 521 00:22:59,156 --> 00:23:06,956 Speaker 2: Laurie Santos. The Happiness Lab is a Pushkin podcast. It's 522 00:23:06,956 --> 00:23:09,556 Speaker 2: co written and produced by Ryan Dilly and mastered by 523 00:23:09,556 --> 00:23:13,236 Speaker 2: Evan Biola. Our original music is written by Zachary Silver. 524 00:23:13,996 --> 00:23:18,716 Speaker 2: Special thanks to Ben Davis, Heather Fame, Carl mcgliori, Julia Barton, 525 00:23:19,036 --> 00:23:21,516 Speaker 2: Neil La Belle, Jacob Weisberg, and the rest of the 526 00:23:21,556 --> 00:23:22,196 Speaker 2: Pushkin crew.