WEBVTT - INTERVIEW: Nicole Avant Opens Up About Grief, Finding Forgiveness, Faith & Her Parents' Greatest Advice 0:00:00.440 --> 0:00:03.680 Wake that ass up in the morning. The Breakfast Club. 0:00:04.960 --> 0:00:08.639 Morning, everybody, It's DJ Envy Charlamagne de Guy. We are 0:00:08.720 --> 0:00:11.840 to Breakfast Club. We got a special guest in the building. Indeed, 0:00:11.920 --> 0:00:13.080 we have Nicole Levont. 0:00:13.200 --> 0:00:14.440 Welcome, Thank you. 0:00:14.680 --> 0:00:15.760 How are you feeling this morning? 0:00:16.480 --> 0:00:19.480 I feel so happy to be in New York, honestly 0:00:19.520 --> 0:00:22.239 because my parents just rolled in New York and met here, 0:00:22.280 --> 0:00:24.119 and my mom grew up here. And I just feel 0:00:25.160 --> 0:00:26.480 Clarence and Jackie everywhere. 0:00:26.520 --> 0:00:27.319 Oh yeah, I do. 0:00:27.440 --> 0:00:29.159 I feel. I woke up this morning, I'm looking at 0:00:29.200 --> 0:00:31.440 this city. I'm all right, Mom, all right, Dad, let's 0:00:31.480 --> 0:00:31.720 do this. 0:00:31.800 --> 0:00:34.400 Did you always have that connected with New York? Yes? Okay, 0:00:34.440 --> 0:00:35.720 why because of the story. 0:00:35.440 --> 0:00:39.080 Of yeah and just being here, and you know, I 0:00:39.200 --> 0:00:41.280 was actually conceived in New York and then they moved 0:00:41.320 --> 0:00:44.640 to La and yes, I'm an La girl, but I 0:00:44.920 --> 0:00:47.239 always spent time here. Oh my cousins are here, so 0:00:47.360 --> 0:00:50.559 Jamaica Queens and New Rochelle and you know, Harlow, I 0:00:50.560 --> 0:00:54.320 got people all over in New Jersey, and so I 0:00:54.440 --> 0:00:55.160 just love New York. 0:00:55.240 --> 0:00:56.560 How do you know you was conceived it? That's not 0:00:56.560 --> 0:00:59.440 a good one. That's not something mose kids. Did you 0:00:59.440 --> 0:01:00.000 ask those ques. 0:01:02.560 --> 0:01:05.520 I did the timeline. Okay, by the time you moved 0:01:05.560 --> 0:01:07.840 to La. Okay, I was like, you were pregnant when 0:01:07.880 --> 0:01:10.080 you moved Chela got you, you know. I was like, okay, 0:01:10.280 --> 0:01:12.520 so I'm a New Yorker. 0:01:12.560 --> 0:01:13.080 I love that. 0:01:13.319 --> 0:01:16.679 This is Nicole Avon, the daughter of the legendary Clarence Avant, 0:01:16.720 --> 0:01:20.240 the legendary of the legendary daughter of Jacqueline Avon, And 0:01:20.280 --> 0:01:21.959 she wrote a book Think You'll be Happy. And you 0:01:22.000 --> 0:01:24.840 know how I feel about your father. I've told you 0:01:24.880 --> 0:01:26.760 that a million times. I got the opportunity to tell 0:01:26.959 --> 0:01:30.959 mister Clarence himself he's one of my top four inspirations 0:01:31.000 --> 0:01:33.280 ever in this entertainment business. 0:01:33.319 --> 0:01:34.720 Like he was the guy. 0:01:35.200 --> 0:01:38.640 Thank you for saying that. He really was. I mean, 0:01:38.680 --> 0:01:43.240 he's stealth I've never seen I mean he was ninety 0:01:43.240 --> 0:01:46.319 two when he passed, and that man going through his 0:01:46.400 --> 0:01:49.760 whole life and documenting his life and looking at everything. 0:01:49.760 --> 0:01:53.240 I said, you had a million opportunities to quit and 0:01:53.320 --> 0:01:55.920 would have every reason to quit, and no one would 0:01:55.920 --> 0:01:58.040 have ever judge you. And he looked at me like, 0:01:58.040 --> 0:02:01.040 why would you. You don't quit, You don't get to quit. 0:02:01.240 --> 0:02:05.800 You could pause, you could pivot, but no, like, your 0:02:05.920 --> 0:02:09.120 life is your life. You don't know how long you're 0:02:09.120 --> 0:02:11.360 going to be here. And his whole thing is like, 0:02:11.440 --> 0:02:14.320 you come with a number and you end with a number, 0:02:14.800 --> 0:02:17.440 So what are you going to do with your dash? 0:02:18.000 --> 0:02:20.520 That was it, What are you going to do with 0:02:20.560 --> 0:02:23.040 your life? And it wasn't not fame for him. His 0:02:23.080 --> 0:02:26.120 whole thing is, you know, greatness is very different from 0:02:26.200 --> 0:02:31.079 being famous, and a lot of people now the new 0:02:31.120 --> 0:02:34.440 generations are, oh, if I'm famous, I'm famous, I'll be great. No, 0:02:35.200 --> 0:02:37.520 you're great and you're worthy and you're valuable just because 0:02:37.520 --> 0:02:39.240 you're alive. You don't have to have a title to 0:02:39.280 --> 0:02:43.720 be great, you know, or worthy or important or significant, 0:02:44.400 --> 0:02:47.959 you know. So that's what I'm feeling a lot that 0:02:48.200 --> 0:02:50.440 that was his whole thing. Even when he was passing away, 0:02:50.440 --> 0:02:52.320 and as you know, his last days with me, he 0:02:52.520 --> 0:02:54.519 was you know, his last words basically were like, keep 0:02:54.560 --> 0:02:59.240 your mind right, girl, keep your mind right. It's okay, daddy, 0:02:59.280 --> 0:02:59.560 I will. 0:03:00.040 --> 0:03:02.240 That's gonna be the name of a book, book keep. 0:03:02.560 --> 0:03:03.720 Yeah, keep your mind right. 0:03:04.040 --> 0:03:07.280 Yes, and with all his okay because this book is 0:03:07.320 --> 0:03:08.080 thinking you'll be happy. 0:03:08.200 --> 0:03:09.480 Let people know why that title is. 0:03:09.720 --> 0:03:13.400 Yes, So I think you'll be happy moving through grief 0:03:13.440 --> 0:03:17.959 with great grays and gratitude. This I was already writing 0:03:18.000 --> 0:03:21.200 a book in twenty twenty after I did The Black 0:03:21.200 --> 0:03:23.720 Out Father, and I thought, you know what, I'm going 0:03:23.760 --> 0:03:26.080 to write a book maybe based on the themes of 0:03:26.160 --> 0:03:30.239 The Black Got Father, which were I picked three themes grit, grayson, gratitude. 0:03:30.880 --> 0:03:33.120 And then I'm writing it and a couple of drafts 0:03:33.120 --> 0:03:36.360 and they weren't right and nothing was landing. And then 0:03:36.520 --> 0:03:39.280 this tragedy, you know, my mom is killed during a 0:03:39.480 --> 0:03:42.400 you know, a home invasion, and I'm like, oh God, 0:03:43.280 --> 0:03:45.360 And I thought, well, I have this book that I 0:03:45.400 --> 0:03:47.400 was writing. Well, I'm not going to I'm not putting 0:03:47.400 --> 0:03:48.520 this out. How are you going to put it out? 0:03:48.520 --> 0:03:51.480 A book on grit, grays and gratitude after this. But 0:03:51.560 --> 0:03:55.320 my father was like, mm mmm, no, you don't. You 0:03:55.360 --> 0:03:59.000 don't let anyone take your life. You don't let anyone 0:03:59.320 --> 0:04:01.920 stop you from doing what you're supposed to be doing. 0:04:02.440 --> 0:04:04.320 So I said, yeah, but Dad, it's called grit, grace, 0:04:04.360 --> 0:04:07.760 and gratitude. And then think you'll be happy. Those were 0:04:07.800 --> 0:04:11.160 the last words that my mom said to me at 0:04:11.160 --> 0:04:13.440 eight o'clock that night. So we were texting about a 0:04:13.440 --> 0:04:16.719 sweet potato pie, and she said, you know, because my 0:04:16.800 --> 0:04:20.479 dad typical clearance. They came for Thanksgiving the week before that. 0:04:20.520 --> 0:04:22.680 He took his leftovers and we didn't even get to 0:04:22.720 --> 0:04:24.520 the pie that my mom brought for me. And she 0:04:24.640 --> 0:04:26.400 was so proud that she brought me this great pie 0:04:26.480 --> 0:04:30.359 and he took it home. So every day after Thanksgiving she'said, 0:04:30.360 --> 0:04:32.720 come get your pie, Come get your pie. And I said, Mom, 0:04:32.760 --> 0:04:36.960 you and this pie, it's okay. And then she texted 0:04:37.000 --> 0:04:39.680 me that night at eight o'clock and we went back 0:04:39.720 --> 0:04:41.800 and forth about the sweet potato pie and I said, 0:04:41.800 --> 0:04:43.680 I'll come get it tomorrow. I'll think about it, I'll 0:04:43.680 --> 0:04:47.120 come get it tomorrow. She said, okay, think you'll be happy. 0:04:48.240 --> 0:04:51.560 Never saw her again, never heard from her again. And 0:04:51.680 --> 0:04:54.080 so when that happened, I thought, you know what. And 0:04:54.120 --> 0:04:56.960 then we looked at when I was showing my publisher 0:04:57.520 --> 0:05:00.120 my team the last text, they were like, that's the 0:05:00.160 --> 0:05:03.479 title of the book because your mom actually didn't just 0:05:03.560 --> 0:05:06.160 say I think you'll be happy about a sweet potato pie. 0:05:07.240 --> 0:05:13.719 You know, energetically and spiritually, that was your mantra to 0:05:13.839 --> 0:05:16.479 go forward in life. That was your mantra to go 0:05:16.640 --> 0:05:19.200 because my mom was a big believer on your words 0:05:19.560 --> 0:05:23.240 and your actions and your thoughts will create your life. 0:05:23.760 --> 0:05:27.280 It just can't change. We see proof of that every 0:05:27.279 --> 0:05:30.839 single day. So I was like, right, I think you'll 0:05:30.880 --> 0:05:34.880 be happy. Okay, okay, I'm gonna do this, like and 0:05:34.920 --> 0:05:36.360 I'm going to move through my grief. 0:05:36.760 --> 0:05:38.320 I was gonna ask how long did it take and 0:05:38.360 --> 0:05:40.000 how difficult was it? Oh? 0:05:40.279 --> 0:05:43.680 It was? So I started writing right after she. I 0:05:43.880 --> 0:05:48.280 finished writing after she passed, so, you know, a year 0:05:48.279 --> 0:05:51.000 and a half, two years all together, three years. And 0:05:51.040 --> 0:05:56.000 it was difficult to write because it was reopening the wound. 0:05:56.640 --> 0:05:58.839 Kind of felt like salt going back into the wound. 0:05:59.000 --> 0:06:01.640 But it was all so the most cathartic thing I 0:06:01.640 --> 0:06:07.320 could have ever done, because I was able to share 0:06:07.440 --> 0:06:11.880 stories and remember stories about her. That did make me happy, 0:06:12.160 --> 0:06:15.440 that did make me grateful that Jacqueline Avon jackie A, 0:06:15.640 --> 0:06:17.080 you know what we used to call her, Jackie A, 0:06:17.720 --> 0:06:21.560 was my mother. And she really took pride in raising 0:06:21.880 --> 0:06:25.960 her children and supporting her family and loving her family. 0:06:26.000 --> 0:06:30.279 And she loved history and all history, but especially my history. 0:06:30.320 --> 0:06:33.600 She's like, you need to know who you are before 0:06:33.800 --> 0:06:35.880 you leave this house every day, So She had this 0:06:35.920 --> 0:06:38.640 thing and we called it the Great Wall. It was 0:06:39.000 --> 0:06:43.920 letters and anything from Booker T. Washington to id B. Wells, 0:06:44.120 --> 0:06:48.320 Harriet Tubman to George Washington, Carver and Hank Earon and 0:06:48.360 --> 0:06:53.760 so and so. So She's like, so politics, you know, sports, entertainment, literature, art, 0:06:54.400 --> 0:06:56.640 You're going to see the greats Josephine Baker. There was 0:06:56.640 --> 0:06:58.520 not a day where I didn't walk out of my 0:06:58.520 --> 0:07:01.560 house where I didn't look at Josephine or Ruby Bridges. 0:07:02.279 --> 0:07:02.479 You know. 0:07:02.640 --> 0:07:04.240 My mom's whole point is like, so when you go 0:07:04.279 --> 0:07:07.960 out in the world, you will understand who you come from, 0:07:08.720 --> 0:07:12.880 what stock do you come from? And then so no 0:07:12.880 --> 0:07:15.880 matter what comes against you, you'll know the truth of 0:07:16.400 --> 0:07:19.880 you owe these people all life. You know, you owe people. 0:07:20.040 --> 0:07:22.120 These people could have quit and could have taken their 0:07:22.160 --> 0:07:25.960 own lives, and they fought, and here you. 0:07:25.920 --> 0:07:27.800 Are doing this book. 0:07:27.840 --> 0:07:30.000 Also had to be tough because you're honoring your mother 0:07:30.120 --> 0:07:32.840 with this book. But then the late Great Clarence Avon 0:07:32.920 --> 0:07:35.560 passed away. So how you've been navigating that? 0:07:36.440 --> 0:07:40.400 You know, it was the last twenty months. So when 0:07:40.440 --> 0:07:43.320 my mom when we left the hospital, so my mom, 0:07:43.880 --> 0:07:45.800 you know, she was shot. She was shot in the back. 0:07:46.280 --> 0:07:48.240 She made it to the hospital. She did not die 0:07:48.240 --> 0:07:50.840 in her house. She made it to the hospital. She 0:07:51.120 --> 0:07:53.560 you know, was in surgery. You know, they did what 0:07:53.600 --> 0:07:56.440 they could, but she lost way too much blood. From 0:07:56.560 --> 0:08:00.440 that moment, I looked at my father right when they 0:08:00.440 --> 0:08:02.280 gave us the news, I said, Okay, you're coming home 0:08:02.280 --> 0:08:05.880 with me. Let's just we were all shocked, drama, stress, 0:08:05.920 --> 0:08:08.560 all that. I just said, come home with me. And 0:08:08.640 --> 0:08:12.040 then for the last twenty months, I said, Okay, you're 0:08:12.040 --> 0:08:14.280 gonna be my road dog. We're just gonna hang. We're 0:08:14.280 --> 0:08:16.360 gonna be together. I'm not going to leave you. You're not 0:08:16.400 --> 0:08:19.800 gonna leave me, and we're gonna get through this shit 0:08:21.480 --> 0:08:23.960 as best as we can. I don't even know what that. 0:08:24.200 --> 0:08:25.400 I don't even know what it looks like. 0:08:25.520 --> 0:08:25.840 Daddy. 0:08:25.920 --> 0:08:28.400 Yeah, I was like, I was like, but we are 0:08:28.520 --> 0:08:32.160 going to We're going to get through it. And he 0:08:32.160 --> 0:08:34.120 would catch me sometimes he's like, get out of that 0:08:34.200 --> 0:08:37.120 quicksand get out of that quicksand because I can see 0:08:37.160 --> 0:08:41.080 you just spiraling. And he was so great because he 0:08:41.160 --> 0:08:44.160 was still Clarence and he basically was like this is 0:08:44.360 --> 0:08:46.080 I mean, some days he didn't even say killed. He 0:08:46.120 --> 0:08:48.440 never even used that word he would say when Jackie 0:08:48.520 --> 0:08:53.600 disappeared the day Jackie disappeared, because it was so you 0:08:53.640 --> 0:08:58.120 know what, and but to have him for twenty months 0:08:58.200 --> 0:09:02.920 living under my roof with my husband, and we just decided, Okay, 0:09:03.000 --> 0:09:05.440 our intention with him is he's going to feel safe, 0:09:05.920 --> 0:09:10.400 he's going to feel loved, and he's going to feel secure. 0:09:11.080 --> 0:09:13.760 And it was the best twenty months I actually could 0:09:13.760 --> 0:09:17.080 have ever had, because yes, I grew up with him, 0:09:17.080 --> 0:09:19.920 but I left home at eighteen, never really came back home, 0:09:20.240 --> 0:09:22.640 would spend time with him, but he was busy, Clarence 0:09:22.679 --> 0:09:25.760 amount was doing things, and so I never really had 0:09:25.800 --> 0:09:29.679 all his energy to myself anyway. And so now as 0:09:29.960 --> 0:09:33.280 an older man and a wiser man and a calmer man, 0:09:33.360 --> 0:09:38.520 I received so much more wisdom. And it was just 0:09:39.240 --> 0:09:41.240 out of a tragedy that was the best thing that 0:09:41.280 --> 0:09:43.080 could have happened, was that I got to live with 0:09:43.120 --> 0:09:43.720 Clarence again. 0:09:43.880 --> 0:09:46.440 Did you kind of feel like he was transitioning soon? 0:09:46.440 --> 0:09:48.640 Because they always say when couples have been together that long. 0:09:49.120 --> 0:09:53.000 I love that you asked that question. I swear to you. 0:09:53.160 --> 0:09:55.760 The first three weeks I kept thinking, oh my god, 0:09:55.800 --> 0:09:58.160 we probably have three weeks with him. Wow, we probably 0:09:58.160 --> 0:10:00.360 have two months with him. Wow, because to your point, 0:10:01.080 --> 0:10:03.960 all science shows, everybody shows like, oh, usually if its 0:10:03.960 --> 0:10:08.320 spouse dies, especially at an older age, the next one 0:10:08.320 --> 0:10:11.400 goes right after and within six months, and I thought, 0:10:11.400 --> 0:10:13.240 oh my god, how am I gonna go? How are 0:10:13.240 --> 0:10:15.480 we gonna do this? And then three months we'll go, by, 0:10:15.880 --> 0:10:18.160 then another three months ago. By by the time we 0:10:18.200 --> 0:10:20.200 got to nine months, I looked at him and I said, 0:10:21.360 --> 0:10:24.880 he's Clarence Abon. I don't know what to tell you. 0:10:25.160 --> 0:10:27.520 I said, now I understand why I call him the Godfather. 0:10:27.559 --> 0:10:30.000 Like he he he. He would always say to me, 0:10:30.120 --> 0:10:33.880 I'm gonna live as long as I can, and when 0:10:33.880 --> 0:10:36.400 it's time for me to go. He literally read the 0:10:36.440 --> 0:10:40.520 New York Times obituary column every single day, and he'd 0:10:40.559 --> 0:10:42.720 read about other people's lives. He loved it, and he 0:10:42.800 --> 0:10:45.600 was like, I'm making sure I'm not in here. I'm 0:10:45.640 --> 0:10:48.880 just making sure I'm not in here today. And then 0:10:49.040 --> 0:10:50.680 I would say no. My teas him, and I said, 0:10:50.679 --> 0:10:52.520 one day I go, Daddy, when you do go, you're 0:10:52.520 --> 0:10:55.440 gonna have the whole page. He goes, Oh, Nicole, please, 0:10:55.440 --> 0:10:56.840 they probably won't put me in there. I maybe I 0:10:56.880 --> 0:10:58.960 have a little paragraph, and when he died, the New 0:10:59.040 --> 0:11:02.040 York Times gave him the whole back age and I went, 0:11:02.080 --> 0:11:02.559 there you go. 0:11:03.880 --> 0:11:06.800 Now we know grief isn't linear. And now the thing 0:11:06.800 --> 0:11:09.680 I love about your book is it feels like everything 0:11:09.760 --> 0:11:12.760 your mother and father instilled and you helped you to 0:11:12.800 --> 0:11:14.360 be able to navigate this. 0:11:14.640 --> 0:11:18.760 Yeah, one hundred percent. And it's not linear. It's like 0:11:18.800 --> 0:11:23.679 a rollercoaster. Grief is just some days you're good and 0:11:23.679 --> 0:11:25.480 you're like, oh, I got this, and then a song 0:11:25.520 --> 0:11:28.320 would come on the radio. I mean, my mom loved 0:11:28.320 --> 0:11:30.360 the Spinners and she loved easy music. You know, she 0:11:30.400 --> 0:11:33.360 loved the Commodorees and the Spinners and Al Green, any 0:11:33.400 --> 0:11:35.600 of those guys came out on the radio. I was 0:11:36.960 --> 0:11:39.440 just destroyed for those five minutes of that song. Bill 0:11:39.440 --> 0:11:42.400 Withers would come on and I think of you know, 0:11:42.600 --> 0:11:46.880 I think of my mom, and grief just it's waves. 0:11:48.000 --> 0:11:53.760 But it also hits every single human being on this planet. 0:11:54.320 --> 0:11:57.240 No one gets to escape grief. Grief is different for everybody. 0:11:58.480 --> 0:12:02.400 But the thing that helped me be calm or calm 0:12:02.480 --> 0:12:05.760 me down about it was when I got anxious, was 0:12:05.840 --> 0:12:08.880 I'm not the only one who's grieving today. I'm not 0:12:09.000 --> 0:12:11.160 the only one. There are mothers who are burying their 0:12:11.240 --> 0:12:14.280 children around the world. There are mothers in our children's 0:12:14.280 --> 0:12:17.680 hospital right who work in three jobs. There're a five 0:12:17.720 --> 0:12:21.520 year old has leukemia, and that's grief. Your dog dies, 0:12:21.559 --> 0:12:24.840 it's grief, yea, your grandparents, whatever it is, or sometimes 0:12:24.880 --> 0:12:27.040 it's not even a death. You're fired from a job 0:12:27.120 --> 0:12:29.719 that you loved and you gave so much of your 0:12:29.760 --> 0:12:32.720 efforts and you were just don't know what happened. Grief 0:12:32.840 --> 0:12:36.679 is hard, but it is you are able to move 0:12:37.120 --> 0:12:38.040 through it. Now. 0:12:38.080 --> 0:12:41.480 I want to talk forgiveness and faith, right, Yes, now, 0:12:41.559 --> 0:12:43.640 you talk about that. You talk about that a lot 0:12:43.640 --> 0:12:46.199 in the book, and that's very difficult for most people 0:12:46.200 --> 0:12:48.720 to forgive, and especially with something like that, you kind 0:12:48.720 --> 0:12:50.600 of lose a little bit of faith at first. Oh, 0:12:52.960 --> 0:12:54.800 how did you get that faith back? If you ever 0:12:54.880 --> 0:12:56.920 got it back, And let's talk about forgiveness. 0:12:57.160 --> 0:13:02.120 Yes, good question. So my faith in that moment, It's 0:13:02.160 --> 0:13:06.280 interesting when it happened, I walked back to my car, 0:13:06.960 --> 0:13:10.640 Like Ted and my father left the hospital separately, I 0:13:10.679 --> 0:13:14.959 had my own car and immediately, like my grandmother always 0:13:15.640 --> 0:13:17.480 the first scripture that came to me, I am strong 0:13:17.480 --> 0:13:19.120 in the Lord and in the power of the I 0:13:19.120 --> 0:13:20.520 am strong in the Lord and in the power of 0:13:20.880 --> 0:13:22.679 I just kept saying it over and over and over 0:13:22.679 --> 0:13:25.360 again and then and then all of a sudden, I 0:13:25.400 --> 0:13:28.320 was like, wait a minute, No, actually, no, I'm not 0:13:28.400 --> 0:13:31.360 strong in the Lord? Like where where is everybody? Where 0:13:31.559 --> 0:13:33.839 was anybody from my mom? You know? You definitely go there. 0:13:34.840 --> 0:13:37.080 But then I snapped right back into it, like, no, 0:13:37.400 --> 0:13:42.520 you know what faith isn't about. You can't just say 0:13:42.600 --> 0:13:45.000 I have faith when everything is going right. Faith isn't 0:13:45.040 --> 0:13:47.280 for when everything is going right. Faith is for when 0:13:47.320 --> 0:13:50.680 everything is going wrong. Actually, it's easy to trust God 0:13:50.800 --> 0:13:54.320 when everything's great right, It's very difficult to trust the 0:13:54.400 --> 0:13:59.319 universe and the divine when things blow up. But people 0:13:59.320 --> 0:14:02.360 have been doing this since the beginning of time. They 0:14:02.400 --> 0:14:04.760 have kept their faith. And the only reason we're all 0:14:04.760 --> 0:14:08.400 sitting here today is because people kept their faith in 0:14:08.440 --> 0:14:12.760 God and planted seeds for us right to have freedom 0:14:13.120 --> 0:14:15.520 to live the lives that we want to live while 0:14:15.559 --> 0:14:19.200 they weren't living in freedom. So if they can do it, 0:14:19.400 --> 0:14:23.680 and unfairness can come to them and trauma can come 0:14:23.720 --> 0:14:28.440 to them over and over, physical, emotional, spiritual trauma, then 0:14:29.120 --> 0:14:30.960 I'm going to have to kind of tap into that 0:14:32.040 --> 0:14:35.600 energy of other people who've also gone through this and 0:14:35.800 --> 0:14:38.320 make and I had just had to make a decision 0:14:39.080 --> 0:14:42.320 to stay in faith, even though I didn't know, even 0:14:42.320 --> 0:14:44.400 though I didn't feel like being in faith. I just 0:14:44.440 --> 0:14:46.360 made a decision. I just came home and I said, Okay, God, 0:14:46.360 --> 0:14:49.440 I don't understand any of this. I don't know what 0:14:49.520 --> 0:14:52.120 to do with this. I don't know who to call. 0:14:52.240 --> 0:14:54.000 I don't know what book to pick up. And then 0:14:54.040 --> 0:14:57.640 it was, you know my scripture, you know what I say? 0:14:57.960 --> 0:14:59.720 And the birds are going to wake up tomorrow, and 0:14:59.720 --> 0:15:01.720 the sun is going to rise tomorrow, and the sun's 0:15:01.760 --> 0:15:05.080 going to set tomorrow. So this is a part of life. 0:15:05.600 --> 0:15:08.360 Death is a part of life. How we die, we 0:15:08.440 --> 0:15:10.960 don't know. And then you know. And then in the 0:15:10.960 --> 0:15:13.200 book I write TD Jakes and it's a true story. 0:15:13.280 --> 0:15:17.160 I literally walked up in my room and I fell 0:15:17.240 --> 0:15:20.200 to my knees, like, God, this is not happening. And 0:15:20.240 --> 0:15:23.800 the phone rang and it's a no caller idea. I 0:15:23.800 --> 0:15:26.240 don't think I'll hold on. I didn't know who it was. 0:15:26.280 --> 0:15:28.000 I didn't I it was a detective or somebody, And 0:15:28.960 --> 0:15:32.160 he said, is this Nicole and I said yes. He said, 0:15:32.160 --> 0:15:35.880 this is Bishop TD Jakes. I said, oh my god, 0:15:35.920 --> 0:15:38.040 well I just fell to my knees. He goes, he goes, 0:15:38.200 --> 0:15:39.720 He goes, how are you holding up? I go, I 0:15:39.760 --> 0:15:42.000 just fell down to my knees. He goes, well, then good, 0:15:42.640 --> 0:15:47.480 We're going to pray. And he did his thing and 0:15:47.520 --> 0:15:50.680 then he said, tell me why you're angry, but you're 0:15:50.720 --> 0:15:52.560 angry about I go, well, obviously what I'm angry about. 0:15:52.600 --> 0:15:54.440 I'm angry that someone did this. I'm angry about this. 0:15:54.480 --> 0:15:59.600 I'm disappointed. And he said, okay, now are we going 0:15:59.680 --> 0:16:04.320 to get this moment of five minutes gonna Are we 0:16:04.400 --> 0:16:07.040 gonna focus on your mom's eighty one years of her 0:16:07.160 --> 0:16:10.760 life and what she gave and what she did, or 0:16:10.760 --> 0:16:13.800 are we going to give this full five minutes where 0:16:13.840 --> 0:16:16.800 you're gonna go, because if you don't turn your mind quickly, 0:16:17.920 --> 0:16:19.640 this is going to be a disaster. And I said, 0:16:19.840 --> 0:16:22.000 I want to focus on the eighty one years. And 0:16:22.040 --> 0:16:27.520 then the forgiveness part was the hardest, because you know, 0:16:27.560 --> 0:16:30.640 forgiveness is a hard word, and it's a tricky word. 0:16:31.080 --> 0:16:32.440 And I think a lot of people say I can 0:16:32.560 --> 0:16:35.280 never forgive that because I've said that too, which means 0:16:35.280 --> 0:16:38.760 I could never condone that. But forgiveness isn't condonement. It's 0:16:38.920 --> 0:16:44.960 never ever ever condoning a bad behavior. Ever. I forgave 0:16:45.360 --> 0:16:48.080 so that I could peace in my heart. I forgave 0:16:48.120 --> 0:16:53.200 for myself. I was like, Okay, I give up the 0:16:53.240 --> 0:16:57.080 anger and the frustration and the sadness and the disappointment. 0:16:57.520 --> 0:16:59.320 I give it up. I give it back to God 0:16:59.360 --> 0:17:02.240 because these burdens that he keeps saying, you know, give 0:17:02.240 --> 0:17:04.560 me your burdens. Okay, okay, well here in mine because 0:17:04.600 --> 0:17:08.760 I'm pissed off and I'm disappointed, and I'm so just 0:17:08.960 --> 0:17:11.040 take all this and every day I had to do that. 0:17:11.400 --> 0:17:15.000 But I definitely made sure I didn't care about this person. 0:17:15.040 --> 0:17:16.680 I don't care about his name, I didn't care about 0:17:16.680 --> 0:17:18.800 his past. I didn't care about I didn't care. I 0:17:18.840 --> 0:17:23.159 was like, I'm not giving him if any space in 0:17:23.200 --> 0:17:26.439 my brain or my heart because I don't have a 0:17:26.480 --> 0:17:29.840 bitter heart. I never had a bitter heart. But if 0:17:29.880 --> 0:17:32.160 you don't forgive, you will have a better heart. And again, 0:17:32.320 --> 0:17:35.440 to anyone who's listening, it is not about even reconciliation. 0:17:36.040 --> 0:17:38.520 I've forgiven people in my past, like friends who have 0:17:38.560 --> 0:17:40.480 hurt me. I never reconciled with them. 0:17:40.480 --> 0:17:41.560 I just forgave them. 0:17:42.119 --> 0:17:44.480 That was it. It was like, I just don't I 0:17:44.520 --> 0:17:47.240 don't even want to have I don't want to carry 0:17:47.280 --> 0:17:50.919 any weight in my body or carry the poison of 0:17:51.080 --> 0:17:56.080 unforgiveness because it's not gonna bring my mom back. It's 0:17:56.080 --> 0:17:57.240 not gonna bring Jackie back. 0:17:57.640 --> 0:17:59.399 I don't think forgiveness is linear either, though. 0:17:59.600 --> 0:18:00.560 Yeah, oh it's not. 0:18:01.080 --> 0:18:02.480 Oh no, oh no. 0:18:03.480 --> 0:18:08.000 Forgiveness is like all up, oh no. It's not like 0:18:08.240 --> 0:18:11.040 oh I forgive and it goes away. It's it's like 0:18:11.480 --> 0:18:13.600 I said it to some recently, it's if you have 0:18:13.680 --> 0:18:17.320 like a pure white wash cloth and it's dipped in tar, right, 0:18:17.640 --> 0:18:19.520 and you got to go back with that wash cloth 0:18:19.840 --> 0:18:22.200 and try to clean it off. It takes a long time. 0:18:22.240 --> 0:18:26.200 That's forgiveness. Forgiveness is an everyday thing. I mean sometimes 0:18:26.240 --> 0:18:29.280 I just universally, I'm like, I forgive everyone and everything. 0:18:29.760 --> 0:18:32.680 Before I go to sleep, I forgive everyone and everything. 0:18:32.760 --> 0:18:35.520 And if I've done anything to hurt anybody, I asked 0:18:35.560 --> 0:18:39.040 that I am forgiven for everything that I have done, 0:18:39.119 --> 0:18:41.000 consciously or unconsciously. 0:18:41.480 --> 0:18:42.760 So what if you in your mind you be like 0:18:42.800 --> 0:18:45.400 I forgive them, then you like, but fuck them. 0:18:45.480 --> 0:18:47.000 Yeah, I feel like God knows your. 0:18:46.880 --> 0:18:50.960 Hot one hundred percent. I was like, I'm not. I'm 0:18:51.000 --> 0:18:55.439 not trying to create any more karma at all. So 0:18:55.560 --> 0:18:58.800 my whole thing is like, I want justice to be served. 0:18:58.880 --> 0:19:00.679 That's that was my whole thing. I'm not trying to 0:19:00.680 --> 0:19:02.840 get back in anybody or I want this to happen 0:19:02.880 --> 0:19:05.000 to somebody's family. I'm not even about that. I'm not. 0:19:05.440 --> 0:19:09.280 I don't justice be served. That's that's that's the piece 0:19:09.359 --> 0:19:11.879 that I'll have for me if I get that. But 0:19:11.920 --> 0:19:16.159 forgiveness is not linear. You're right. Forgiveness is and it's hard. 0:19:16.800 --> 0:19:20.240 Sometimes it's easier than other times, but it's but but 0:19:20.640 --> 0:19:26.119 it is throughout scripture and most scriptures throughout history because 0:19:26.160 --> 0:19:30.080 of this reason, and it's for us, it's not for 0:19:30.160 --> 0:19:32.800 the other person. And I think that's why forgiveness has 0:19:32.840 --> 0:19:36.040 talked about in all the good books so much, because 0:19:37.080 --> 0:19:39.800 it's you could be really bitter or you know, my 0:19:39.880 --> 0:19:42.679 friend's mom was a survivor of the Holocaust and she 0:19:42.720 --> 0:19:45.760 said to her, the one thing you owe me, And 0:19:45.800 --> 0:19:47.560 she was a child when she was in the Holocaust, 0:19:48.160 --> 0:19:49.960 four or five, and she said, you owe me a 0:19:50.000 --> 0:19:53.680 life that's what you owe me a life, you owe 0:19:53.720 --> 0:19:55.600 you owe me a life, that's it. But you got 0:19:55.600 --> 0:19:58.440 to give me a life because I survived so that 0:19:58.640 --> 0:20:01.159 you could be here. And that always stuck with me 0:20:01.280 --> 0:20:04.040 that you know, my grandmother was like that. My grandmother's 0:20:04.119 --> 0:20:07.240 like we were born. It's you know, slavery, all of 0:20:07.320 --> 0:20:07.760 us like this. 0:20:08.200 --> 0:20:09.400