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Speaker 1: Body Backs with Joseph Scott Morgan. So we finally have

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Speaker 1: an answer Gabby Petito's cause of death. We've been waiting

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Speaker 1: and finally that day has arrived. The corner at in

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Speaker 1: Wyoming As let us peek inside what they found. At

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Speaker 1: least in the early moments of the investigation, still more

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Speaker 1: to be determined, but today we want to explore those

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Speaker 1: findings and do a deep dive into what brought about

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Speaker 1: the death of Gabbie Petito. I'm Joe Scott Morgan and

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Speaker 1: this is Body Backs. Joining me today is Jackie Howard,

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Speaker 1: executive producer of Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Jackie, what

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Speaker 1: do we know about the case at this point, Joe,

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Speaker 1: As you mentioned, we do know that Gabby Petito was

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Speaker 1: strangled to death. The coroner came out and made his

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Speaker 1: announcement yesterday and then we found out more information last night.

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Speaker 1: The coroner released a little more information during an interview

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Speaker 1: and he said that it was manual strangulation with throttling.

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Speaker 1: And I'll have to tell you a thought to myself,

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Speaker 1: I can't wait till Joe Scott Morgan can explain to

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Speaker 1: me what throttling is. What does that mean? Joe This

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Speaker 1: puts this at a completely different level, Jackie. You know,

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Speaker 1: we early on when we first got the information that

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Speaker 1: it was a strangulation death, that opens up the door

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Speaker 1: to well, there's a variety of different types of strangulation.

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Speaker 1: You've got literature strangulation, you've got something that's called mechanical strangulation,

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Speaker 1: and those two can be confused sometimes, and then you

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Speaker 1: have this area that's called throttling. And throttling actually means, Jackie,

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Speaker 1: that an individual takes their bare hands and generally it's

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Speaker 1: both hands, places them around the neck and then begins

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Speaker 1: to squeeze. That's where the manual comes in. That means

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Speaker 1: that there's no other object involved, no other tool. You

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Speaker 1: think about a literature strangulation where you could use a

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Speaker 1: belt or scarf, or a piece of rope or even

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Speaker 1: a wire, but not in this case. We're talking about

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Speaker 1: the corner saw. And the forensic pathologists saw at the autopsy,

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Speaker 1: they saw evidence that someone had literally taken their hands

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Speaker 1: and wrapped them around Gabby Petito's neck and squeezed and

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Speaker 1: literally squeezed the life out of her little body. You know,

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Speaker 1: I think that most people believe that with decomposition, she

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Speaker 1: had been down for I don't know the corner said

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Speaker 1: yesterday in his pressor you know, three to four weeks,

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Speaker 1: and he wouldn't put a finer point on that. I

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Speaker 1: think that most people think would decomposition, that we're not

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Speaker 1: going to be able to find any evidence at autopsy

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Speaker 1: of any kind of trauma. And that's just not true

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Speaker 1: because if you think about this, everybody at home, I

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Speaker 1: want you to look at the surface area of the

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Speaker 1: palms of your hands, just for a second, look at

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Speaker 1: them and consider them. Think about squeezing an orange or

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Speaker 1: an apple in your hands, and how much force you

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Speaker 1: can exert. Now, you take both hands and you place

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Speaker 1: them over that orange or that apple, and you squeeze,

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Speaker 1: and that compression that's taking place there, it's going to

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Speaker 1: in cases of apples, if you do that, for instance,

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Speaker 1: it's going to leave a bruise and it's going to

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Speaker 1: soften that surface. You can kind of take that and

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Speaker 1: apply that to the human body. As pressure is directly

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Speaker 1: applied with both hands, little areas of hemorrhage begin. And

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Speaker 1: we're not just talking innocuous little areas like PATKII penprick.

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Speaker 1: We're talking about dime sized, quarter size and then they

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Speaker 1: begin to expand, and as that pressure continues, more vessels burst.

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Speaker 1: And if you think about the underlying soft tissue, the

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Speaker 1: muscle tissue, everything that dwells that neck, that hemorrhage expands

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Speaker 1: and begins to envelope that area, and you can in

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Speaker 1: some cases you can actually see external markings of fingers

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Speaker 1: on people's throats, and that extends even below the surface.

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Speaker 1: You can actually make out these specific areas of hemorrhage.

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Speaker 1: The damage would have been extensive, Jackie. Extensive, So Joe,

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Speaker 1: that tells me, if I can be logical for just

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Speaker 1: a second, that tells me that Gabby's body was not

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Speaker 1: skeletonized so that there was enough tissue left for the

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Speaker 1: corner to be able to see what you're talking about. Jackie.

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Speaker 1: That's a fantastic point. And let's step back just for

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Speaker 1: a second, think about what happened that day that the

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Speaker 1: autopsy was done. That afternoon, the corner came out and

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Speaker 1: made a statement about the manner of death. Remember we

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Speaker 1: were talking about the manner of death, and I've talked

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Speaker 1: about how they're five and they came out specifically that

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Speaker 1: day without any further testing, and said, we've got a

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Speaker 1: manner we've got a manner in this case, and we're

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Speaker 1: calling it homicide. And just so our listeners understand, and

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Speaker 1: it's pure ast sense. When you define that word homicide,

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Speaker 1: it literally translates into death at the hands of another.

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Speaker 1: It's very clinical, it's very straightforward. So when they did

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Speaker 1: her post mortem examination, they saw something in that autopsy room,

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Speaker 1: they saw something at the table as they surrounded her body,

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Speaker 1: as they began to thoroughly examine her body, they saw

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Speaker 1: extensive trauma. It would be so glaring because you know,

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Speaker 1: we have to factor in this idea of decomposition. So

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Speaker 1: even though she had been down three to four weeks,

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Speaker 1: when they began to examine what remained of Gabby, it

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Speaker 1: was so striking, it was so absolutely striking that they

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Speaker 1: could definitively walk out of that room and say that

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Speaker 1: the manner of death was homicide. Now you say, well,

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Speaker 1: you know what, it's kind of counterintuitive to what we

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Speaker 1: do in medical legal death investigation because many times we'll

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Speaker 1: have a cause of death, you know, like gunshot wound,

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Speaker 1: for instance, and we don't have a manner because they

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Speaker 1: don't know if it was accidental discharge, they don't know

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Speaker 1: if it was a homicidal event. They don't know if

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Speaker 1: it was suicide or maybe even undetermined. It happened in

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Speaker 1: reverse in this case, and that's what from a medical

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Speaker 1: legal forensic standpoint, what makes this so unique. They were

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Speaker 1: actually able to say that the manner was in fact homicide.

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Speaker 1: And now they've reached the point through all of their

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Speaker 1: analysis consultations when they came up with this determination that

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Speaker 1: this was a manual strangulation, and not just a manual strangulation,

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Speaker 1: but a throttling that's very specific. That means that at

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Speaker 1: this point they have ruled out things like a literature

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Speaker 1: strangulation involving a rope, because if we see cases where

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Speaker 1: individuals are strangled with a rope, it leaves a deep

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Speaker 1: furrow externally on the neck, it leaves a very specific

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Speaker 1: underlying hemorrhage that's linear. That's not what they saw. They

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Speaker 1: saw massive hemorrhage in this area underlying where they knew

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Speaker 1: or at least they're putting forward the idea underlying the

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Speaker 1: area where the hands would have actually made contacts. So

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Speaker 1: they had specific identifying information and evidence at that autopsy

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Speaker 1: to name this specifically as a manual strangulation via throttling.

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Speaker 1: I'm back here with Jackie Howard and Uh, Jackie and

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Speaker 1: I are discussing this idea of manual strangulation and what

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Speaker 1: the corner and the forensic pathologists actually found at autopsy. Joe,

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Speaker 1: you were talking about the corner coming out and making

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Speaker 1: his determination that it was homicide on the day of

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Speaker 1: the autopsy. The corner came out quickly, so he saw

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Speaker 1: what you've been explaining to us very quickly. Yeah, you know,

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Speaker 1: he did. Uh, and and just I don't know, I've

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Speaker 1: used the analogy. It's almost metaphorically like he sprinted to

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Speaker 1: the microphone, you know, to make that as as you

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Speaker 1: well know, people in my line of work and law enforcement,

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Speaker 1: we try to avoid microphones at all costs. In this

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Speaker 1: particular context, he sent out a specific ruling in this

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Speaker 1: case and was very quick about it. And I think

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Speaker 1: there's a lot that goes into this. But keep in mind,

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Speaker 1: this is an ongoing criminal investigation. You've got a person

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Speaker 1: of interest that's at large essentially, and they wanted to

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Speaker 1: frame this early on and say that this is in

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Speaker 1: fact a homicide. We need to be aware this situation

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Speaker 1: is urgent. There's no doubt, there's no equivocation here. This

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Speaker 1: is a homicidal event, and we need to begin to

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Speaker 1: put the pieces together, first off, so that we can

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Speaker 1: understand what happened to Gabby, but also so that we

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Speaker 1: can enforce the urgency as it applies to tracking down

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Speaker 1: Brian Laundry and asking him some very specific questions about

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Speaker 1: what they're finding at the autopsy and forensically, you're explaining

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Speaker 1: to this about the throttling, But describe for me, Joe,

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Speaker 1: what it could have been. Obviously we don't know exactly,

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Speaker 1: we weren't in the autopsy room. But what could it

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Speaker 1: have been that he saw? Would he have seen actual

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Speaker 1: finger marks, if there was tissue, was it bruising, what

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Speaker 1: would he have seen to say this is throttling? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know you can see, you can see in some

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Speaker 1: cases relative to contusions, which is just a fancy ten

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Speaker 1: dollar word from Burdus, you can actually see patterns that resemble,

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Speaker 1: you know, finger marks or handprints. Can you say it

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Speaker 1: definitively that you know, like what you like to say

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Speaker 1: one percent scientific certainty on you know on the stand

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Speaker 1: that this is in fact a fingerprint or a handmark

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Speaker 1: and it's tied direct No, you can't say that, but

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Speaker 1: you can say that it looks very very similar. You

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Speaker 1: can say it's consistent with which is a term that

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Speaker 1: you use a lot in forensic science as it applies

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Speaker 1: to the courts. Now some of the other things that

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Speaker 1: they would have noticed at the autopsy. We can't just

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Speaker 1: focus mainly on the underlying hemorrhage, which you know, we

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Speaker 1: don't know because he hasn't said anything. It could be

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Speaker 1: compromised to a certain degree by decomposition. But here's something

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Speaker 1: that probably is not when we begin to think about this,

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Speaker 1: the cartilaginous bodies of the of what's commonly known what

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Speaker 1: the cartilaginous bodies, which is what makes up our windpipe.

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Speaker 1: Essentially that that underlying area in our trachea that gives

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Speaker 1: it firmness. Everybody can feel this at home. Do you

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Speaker 1: know that with throttling. With throttling, not only do you

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Speaker 1: create hemorrhage around that area, there's a crushing event that

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Speaker 1: takes place, and even though cartilage is soft, it's softer

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Speaker 1: certainly than bone. Cartilage will fracture and it'll have its

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Speaker 1: own little areas of hemorrhage. And that's one of the

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Speaker 1: things that they would look look for. We've heard about

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Speaker 1: people having their quote unquote windpipe crushed. That could be

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Speaker 1: one of the things they're looking for. And also that

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Speaker 1: that tiny little bone that everybody likes to talk about, Jackie,

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Speaker 1: and that of course is the highoid it. You know,

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Speaker 1: it sits way way up in the neck, Jackie, I

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Speaker 1: mean way up, and it's an anatomical oddity and the

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Speaker 1: rest of the human body. Because the hyoid bone is

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Speaker 1: actually the only bone that is not articulated or connected

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Speaker 1: to another bone in the human body. It's sole purpose.

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Speaker 1: Its sole purpose is to anchor the tongue. It holds

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Speaker 1: the tongue in place. And it's if folks at home

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Speaker 1: will just think about a horseshoe. That's kind of how

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Speaker 1: it's shaped. And you can see hemorrhage in that area.

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Speaker 1: You can see fractures in that area, and because it's

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Speaker 1: so hard to get to, you rarely see it associated

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Speaker 1: with anything other than manual strangulation. That means direct pressure applied,

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Speaker 1: and it's a eventually fractured or cracked, and that would

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Speaker 1: be something that would not compromise. It wouldn't compromise that

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Speaker 1: manifestations to the tissue rounded we're talking about bone, so

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Speaker 1: it's not going to be compromised by decomposition or the

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Speaker 1: breakdown of soft tissue. That's not the case. It will

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Speaker 1: remain present, it will remain visible. It will remain in

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Speaker 1: a position where it can be examined, not just in

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Speaker 1: place or like we fancy word we say in forensic

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Speaker 1: pathology in sight too, which means in place. But it

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Speaker 1: can be removed and it can be examined by holding

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Speaker 1: it in the hand. It can be examined microscopically, Jackie.

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Speaker 1: And it can also and this is key, can also

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Speaker 1: be retained. So if you find a fractured hyoid, the

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Speaker 1: practice generally is to take it out, you put it

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Speaker 1: in preservative, and you save it. And you know what

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Speaker 1: they do with that. I've actually seen this happen in court.

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Speaker 1: They'll take an intact hyoid and they will physically bring

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Speaker 1: that into the courtroom and present it as evidence. And boy,

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Speaker 1: you talk about something powerful, because that's the essence of

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Speaker 1: the individual, that's part of their body. And if that's

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Speaker 1: brought into a courtroom and they have a fractured hyoid,

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Speaker 1: that's something that they can demonstrate and something the jury

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Speaker 1: can really lash onto. So let's talk a little bit

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Speaker 1: about the actual act of strangulation. Most people do not know,

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Speaker 1: and of course I don't know either, thankfully, how much

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Speaker 1: actual pressure it takes to strangle someone, how long it

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Speaker 1: takes to strangle someone. Walk us through this. I mean,

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Speaker 1: what would have been happening at that time that Gabby

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Speaker 1: was dying. Oh my gosh. It's a complete and total

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Speaker 1: horror show, is what it comes down to. And with

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Speaker 1: manual strangulation and specifically throttling. Let's kind of paint a

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Speaker 1: picture here in kind of classic context when you're talking

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Speaker 1: about the relationship between the perpetrator and the victim. The

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Speaker 1: victim certainly can be standing, okay, but if we think

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Speaker 1: about the interior of that van, it's impossible to stand

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Speaker 1: in that van for any protracted period of time. Generally,

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Speaker 1: what happens is that a perpetrator will get on top

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Speaker 1: of an individual. Now they can do this from the

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Speaker 1: rear or from the front, but classically you think about

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Speaker 1: the front. And here's the really chilling dynamic about this.

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Speaker 1: And keep in mind, this is a very personal event.

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Speaker 1: This is intimate. This is as intimate as it can

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Speaker 1: get in homicide. When an individual is being throttled, in

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Speaker 1: many cases, they are staring, they are staring the perpetrator,

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Speaker 1: their killer in the eye, and just let that sink in,

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Speaker 1: just for a second, because when you think about the

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Speaker 1: relationship between the two in a physical sense, where the

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Speaker 1: individual is eye to eye with this person, their life,

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Speaker 1: the victim's life is slowly being diminished. All of the

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Speaker 1: air supply is being cut off, the blood supply is

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Speaker 1: being cut off, because not only are you potentially crushing

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Speaker 1: the windpipe, which really doesn't take that many pounds of pressure,

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Speaker 1: particularly in someone as diminutive and small and tiny as Gabby,

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Speaker 1: you're also clamping down on these major vessels that run

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Speaker 1: through the neck. And all of us have heard about

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Speaker 1: these vessels. We've got the juggler vein, which is the

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Speaker 1: return from the brain of blood, and we've also got

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Speaker 1: the corrotted which is taking oxygenated blood to the brain.

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Speaker 1: Remember the brain, the head is the most vascular area

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Speaker 1: in the body. What that means is is that that

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Speaker 1: area the body requires more oxygenated blood than probably any

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Speaker 1: other area of the human body. Because the brain just

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Speaker 1: eats energy, it requires a tremendous amount of oxygen. So

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Speaker 1: it's not just about breaking the cartilage in the neck.

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Speaker 1: It's not about fracturing the hyoid in and of a self.

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Speaker 1: It's not about specifically leaving hemorrhage behind in the soft tissues.

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Speaker 1: It's also has to do with a deprivation of oxygen.

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Speaker 1: That's the real killer here, you know. I mean, you

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Speaker 1: can have deprivation of oxygen. Everybody knows that. You know,

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Speaker 1: every kid on the planet has tried to hold their

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Speaker 1: breath until they pass out, right, So explain to me

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Speaker 1: that difference. I mean, if she passed out and someone

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Speaker 1: whoever was strangling her let go, would she automatically start

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Speaker 1: breathing or do you have to hold someone? You know

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Speaker 1: what I mean? How long is this process? Some people

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Speaker 1: have opined or put out the opinion that it can

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Speaker 1: take up to five minutes in order to manually strangle somebody.

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Speaker 1: But I gotta tell you, Jackie, with a manual strangulation

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Speaker 1: you've got we would assume a male perpetrator, potentially powerful,

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Speaker 1: big hands, hovering over a very diminutive young lady who

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Speaker 1: is let's let's face it is slight in build a

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Speaker 1: kind of a fragile, very tiny neck. It really doesn't

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Speaker 1: take that long. There's not that It's not like a

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Speaker 1: big bodybuilder that might have a gigantic neck where you

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Speaker 1: have to make your way through a lot of soft tissue.

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Speaker 1: If you look at those images of Gabby and she's

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Speaker 1: so beautiful, you know, you take a look at her

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Speaker 1: and she's smiling. I want people from now on to

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Speaker 1: pay attention to her neck, to take a look at

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Speaker 1: it and see how delicate it is. And there's not

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Speaker 1: much to it. It's supporting her head, you know, and

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Speaker 1: it just kind of rises up off of her shoulders

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Speaker 1: and it's very very slight and bill so it would

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Speaker 1: not have taken a tremendous amount of pressure apply it

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Speaker 1: externally in order to diminish her blood supply, which is

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Speaker 1: carrying oxygen, and also her ability to uptake oxygen. That

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Speaker 1: means inhalate where we take in a breath, and then

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Speaker 1: exhalate where we're forcing breath out. All of these processes

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Speaker 1: are interconnected, Jackie. It's part of our metabolism, it's how

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Speaker 1: we work. So when you introduce a throttling event into this,

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Speaker 1: you completely disrupt everything that's going on with her ability

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Speaker 1: to thrive and live. You're shutting down her lungs, you're

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Speaker 1: shutting down her blood flow, and also you're shutting down

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Speaker 1: her brain's ability to function in a normal manner. All

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Speaker 1: those little synapses that are firing all of the time,

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Speaker 1: they're sending messages throughout the body, whether it's stuff that

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Speaker 1: is conscious, you know, maybe looking in a particular direction,

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Speaker 1: moving our hands, or when it comes down to what's

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Speaker 1: called our primal brain, our autonomic nervous system, which is

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Speaker 1: actually telling without us knowing, it is telling our heart

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Speaker 1: to beat and our lungs to take up oxygen that's

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Speaker 1: being compromised. So all of that is essentially leaving her

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Speaker 1: body during this period of time, and it really paints

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Speaker 1: a chilling picture. She I don't think that she had

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Speaker 1: a chance in this particular case. You know, we're talking

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Speaker 1: about the deprivation of oxygen. We're talking about manual strangulation

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Speaker 1: in the case of Gabby Potito. But you know, there's

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Speaker 1: more to consider here, isn't there? Jackie? There is, Joe,

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Speaker 1: And I'm so glad that you brought that up. You

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Speaker 1: mentioned early on that in photos that you saw of

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Speaker 1: Gabby when she was sandsurfing, bruising on her back. Then

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Speaker 1: we have the incident in Moab where Gabby and was

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Speaker 1: and Brian were stopped by the police, and she mentioned

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Speaker 1: that he grabbed her face, and the officer asked her

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Speaker 1: about a scratch on her face and some bruising on

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Speaker 1: her shoulder. Gabby said she didn't really know. She didn't

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Speaker 1: mention any type of physical abuse by Brian, But you

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Speaker 1: noticed that. So what would the autopsy or the corner

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Speaker 1: have been able to see. Yeah, let's let's back up

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Speaker 1: one second, Jackie, you gotta tell you that. Remember what

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Speaker 1: that nine eleven caller said. That individual said, there's a

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Speaker 1: man out here in the street, and I'm paraphrasing, there's

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Speaker 1: a man out here in the street that is slapping,

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Speaker 1: that is slapping a young woman. Okay, this is in

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Speaker 1: broad daylight. Think about think about what that means. That

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Speaker 1: means that an individual has the gall too in public,

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Speaker 1: in the light of day, in plain view, to beat

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Speaker 1: up a little girl. That's what it comes down to.

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Speaker 1: And so as an investigator, what I'm going to begin

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Speaker 1: to think about is is there some kind of evidence

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Speaker 1: of ongoing abuse? And you know, you're very right. You know,

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Speaker 1: when I saw those those screenshots of them sand surfing

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Speaker 1: out there in Colorado. You know, one of the things

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Speaker 1: that I noticed and I can't take full credit for

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Speaker 1: this because somebody had pointed it out to me. But

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Speaker 1: I began to take a look at that, and you

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Speaker 1: can see on the exposed surface of her right shoulder

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Speaker 1: that there appears to be some kind of faint demarcation

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Speaker 1: right there that is about I don't know. To me,

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Speaker 1: it looked like it was about size of a quarter.

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Speaker 1: And they're multiple of these multiple So as an investigator,

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Speaker 1: I have to ask this question, is that evidence that

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Speaker 1: she has been contacted or struck by something, or is

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00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:59,399
Speaker 1: there evidence that maybe her equilibrium wasn't that great and

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Speaker 1: she had fallen over and landed on her shoulder. So

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Speaker 1: at the autopsy, you know what we would do with

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Speaker 1: that information? If in fact they had this information that

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Speaker 1: time relative to her being knocked around, would would they

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Speaker 1: put that in context and examine the totality of her body.

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Speaker 1: The problem is this, the coroner has stated that she

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Speaker 1: was down three to four weeks. Now, there's all kinds

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Speaker 1: of things that go into this, but just suffice it

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Speaker 1: to say that the body begins to break down. It's

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Speaker 1: a natural process, and the tissue, the soft tissue, the skin,

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Speaker 1: the underlying connective tissue, and certainly the muscle begin to

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Speaker 1: deteriorate and at a just like a microscopic level and

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00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:52,560
Speaker 1: at a cellular level, it begins to break down. The

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Speaker 1: body is actually kind of in a weird way, It

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Speaker 1: is kind of ingesting itself. And so as that happens,

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Speaker 1: there are all these little things that we refer to

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Speaker 1: as decompositional artifact, and what that means is that the

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00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:11,440
Speaker 1: body begins to manifest dark areas, it begins to kind

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Speaker 1: of eradicate anything else that was there. The trick is

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Speaker 1: the trick is for these forensic scientists, were they able

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Speaker 1: to differentiate between decompositional artifact changes after death and any

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Speaker 1: kind of pre existing trauma she may have sustained prior

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Speaker 1: to the death event. You know, was there evidence of

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Speaker 1: things that were there and had begun to heal. Let's

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Speaker 1: think about this just for a second. All of us

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Speaker 1: have had some kind of bruise in our life. If

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Speaker 1: if you've got kids, you know, they'll come bounding through

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Speaker 1: the door and you'll ask them as a parent, you know,

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Speaker 1: where'd you get that bruise and that sort of thing.

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Speaker 1: They'll give you some kind of reason for it. Every

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Speaker 1: bruise that we have or contusion, it goes through stages,

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Speaker 1: doesn't it? You know, just think about it. Initially it's

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Speaker 1: really bright red and it becomes kind of a blue

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Speaker 1: to purple color. Sometimes it will go black and then

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Speaker 1: blue and the purple, and then it goes through that

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Speaker 1: really disgusting phase where it'll be yellow and green and

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Speaker 1: finally it's gone. Well, that takes place over time, and

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Speaker 1: it's resolving, it's healing. So the question would be, from

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Speaker 1: a scientific perspective, had decomposition compromised that tissue where you

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Speaker 1: couldn't appreciate it fully, where you couldn't understand or be

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00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:35,520
Speaker 1: able to appreciate if there was healing going on old

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Speaker 1: injuries and to boot you have to also factor in

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Speaker 1: what's referred to as a perimortem event. Perimortem means in

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Speaker 1: the throes of So the perimortem event in this case

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Speaker 1: would be the trauma that was being inflicted upon Gabby's

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Speaker 1: delicate little neck during her death event. As the life

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Speaker 1: was being squeezed out of her, You've got new hemorrhage

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Speaker 1: that's being created. So it's a difficult task for the

395
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Speaker 1: forensic scientists because you've got this just huge mesh of information.

396
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:13,160
Speaker 1: They're trying to disseminate and separate. So you've got all

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Speaker 1: the stuff that happened prior to her death, You've got

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Speaker 1: the stuff that happened during the midst of that perimortem

399
00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:21,359
Speaker 1: event I mentioned, and then you've got all the stuff

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Speaker 1: that happens after death. And you can see what a

401
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:26,359
Speaker 1: web this is that they kind of have to pick apart.

402
00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:29,680
Speaker 1: It's no wonder that it took us, you know, several

403
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Speaker 1: weeks down range after they came up with the manner

404
00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:35,399
Speaker 1: of death to give us a cause of death? Does

405
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:39,080
Speaker 1: the blood pooling the blood that remains in the body

406
00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:42,159
Speaker 1: when you die in the position the blood goes to

407
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Speaker 1: the lowest position in the body. Is that going to

408
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:50,280
Speaker 1: effect being able to tell about the bruises? You know,

409
00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:55,280
Speaker 1: you're referring to something we call post mortem leavidity or

410
00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:59,000
Speaker 1: live or mortis. And essentially, if you'll think about if

411
00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:01,199
Speaker 1: you'll just take it home, you'll take a cup of

412
00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:04,399
Speaker 1: water and take it stand over your sink. Don't do

413
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:06,160
Speaker 1: it in the middle of your living room, but take

414
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:09,640
Speaker 1: a cup of water, stand over the sink and tip

415
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:12,200
Speaker 1: it over. What happens to the water, well, it goes

416
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:16,120
Speaker 1: to the lowest point of gravity. Blood is no different. Okay,

417
00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:19,879
Speaker 1: any fluid that you have in your body after death, Remember,

418
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:22,800
Speaker 1: your blood is no longer circulating, so it is going

419
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:25,160
Speaker 1: to seek the lowest point of gravity. And I don't

420
00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:27,159
Speaker 1: know this for a fact, but let's just assume that

421
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:31,720
Speaker 1: that Gabby's body was laying in a supine position, which

422
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:35,280
Speaker 1: means her back was contact in the ground. After she's

423
00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:37,720
Speaker 1: placed in that position, the blood in her body would

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00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:40,199
Speaker 1: seek that lowest point of gravity and would go to

425
00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:43,600
Speaker 1: her back wherever her body is contacting the ground because

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00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:46,240
Speaker 1: gravity is pulling pulling it there. You know, gravity is

427
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:49,560
Speaker 1: a constant force in our universe, and so it will

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Speaker 1: darken the skin. That's one of the things that we

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Speaker 1: look at. It's one of the reasons that people refer

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Speaker 1: to it as post mortem lovidity. How many of you

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Speaker 1: guys have ever heard the term You're not just angry.

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Speaker 1: People will say, I'm livid. Well, the reason they stay

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Speaker 1: they're livid is that there's color change in your face.

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Speaker 1: You've ever seen somebody gets so angry their face turns

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Speaker 1: red or purple. I've seen it. And so that applies

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Speaker 1: to postmortem lovidity. There's color changes and they stay there,

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Speaker 1: they stay fixed. So you superimpose that over any kind

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Speaker 1: of bruising that was there. Coupled with that, it even

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Speaker 1: makes it more difficult to appreciate any kind of pre

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Speaker 1: existing trauma. And when we begin to think about that

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Speaker 1: area on her right shoulder that we had mentioned, you know,

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Speaker 1: if she's laying face up, that could potentially be compromised

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Speaker 1: as well because of the postmortum lavidity where the blood

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Speaker 1: is settling into that area, gravity is drawing it down.

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Speaker 1: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan, and this is body backs