1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:05,400 Speaker 1: We can survive without self care, but the question is 2 00:00:06,120 --> 00:00:08,600 Speaker 1: do we want to survive in a depleted state? 3 00:00:23,079 --> 00:00:26,639 Speaker 2: Hey, everybody, Emily Abadi here, you are listening to another 4 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:31,160 Speaker 2: installment of Hurdle Moment from Hurdle, a wellness focused podcast. 5 00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:34,960 Speaker 2: Reconnect with everyone from your favorite athletes to top experts 6 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:39,319 Speaker 2: and industry CEOs about their highest highs, toughest moments, and 7 00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:43,040 Speaker 2: everything in between. We all go through hurdles in life, 8 00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:45,919 Speaker 2: and my goal through these discussions is to empower you 9 00:00:46,080 --> 00:00:49,720 Speaker 2: to better navigate yours and move with intention so that 10 00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:52,920 Speaker 2: you can stride towards your own big potential and of 11 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:58,680 Speaker 2: course have some fun along the way. Today talking about 12 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:02,160 Speaker 2: something that is so imperative when it comes to your 13 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:07,160 Speaker 2: overall wellness, and that is self care. And to do that, 14 00:01:07,720 --> 00:01:11,560 Speaker 2: I am bringing in Michelle Seeger. She's an award winning 15 00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:14,920 Speaker 2: researcher at the University of Michigan. She's also a health 16 00:01:14,959 --> 00:01:19,520 Speaker 2: coach with almost thirty years studying how to create sustainable 17 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:23,480 Speaker 2: changes in healthy behaviors that can survive the complexity and 18 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:28,360 Speaker 2: unpredictability of the real world. She's also the author of 19 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:32,960 Speaker 2: the book The Joy Choice, which is all about cultivating 20 00:01:33,080 --> 00:01:36,760 Speaker 2: the in the moment decisions that support self care, health 21 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:39,800 Speaker 2: and well being a lot of that which we are 22 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:44,479 Speaker 2: jamming about for today's episode. We are chatting about decision 23 00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:49,120 Speaker 2: disruptors that can threaten our self care plans. According to Michelle, 24 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:51,640 Speaker 2: there are four of them, and we're going to break 25 00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:55,440 Speaker 2: those down because when you are better informed about what 26 00:01:55,520 --> 00:01:59,760 Speaker 2: could be standing in between you and a more full 27 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:04,880 Speaker 2: proof self care plan, then you might be better at 28 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:08,639 Speaker 2: keeping up with it and in turn taking care of you. 29 00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:12,799 Speaker 2: Loved this convo. Grateful to Michelle for her time. Make 30 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:15,760 Speaker 2: sure you're following along on social at Hurdle podcasts. I'm 31 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:19,920 Speaker 2: over at Emily a Body And with that, let's get 32 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:30,920 Speaker 2: to hurdling today. I am sitting down with doctor Michelle Seeger. 33 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:31,840 Speaker 2: How are you doing today? 34 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 1: I'm doing well, Thanks, how are you? I'm so good. 35 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:39,680 Speaker 2: Before we get into talking about all of the reasons 36 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:43,360 Speaker 2: why self care is super important and how to protect 37 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:46,120 Speaker 2: that energy, why don't you give us a little bit 38 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:48,080 Speaker 2: of your backstory? Talked to us about how you got 39 00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:49,200 Speaker 2: into this work. 40 00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:54,720 Speaker 1: Sure, while something very specific did happen In nineteen ninety 41 00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:59,720 Speaker 1: three nineteen ninety four, I was conducting my first randomized 42 00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:04,360 Speaker 1: true as a master student in kinesiology, and we were 43 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:07,840 Speaker 1: looking to see if cancer survivors far out of treatment, 44 00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:11,920 Speaker 1: like five years out of treatment, if they would benefit 45 00:03:11,960 --> 00:03:17,079 Speaker 1: psychologically from exercising. And so we found what we were 46 00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:20,720 Speaker 1: what we hypothesized, was that the group that exercised did 47 00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:24,399 Speaker 1: significantly reduce their depression and anxiety compared to the group 48 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:26,480 Speaker 1: that didn't. And I thought that was the end of 49 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:30,800 Speaker 1: the story. But part of our study design was to 50 00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:34,640 Speaker 1: call the participants back about three months after the study 51 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:37,360 Speaker 1: ended and talk to them and give them the measures again. 52 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:41,400 Speaker 1: And I distinctly remember, I mean this was almost thirty 53 00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:45,800 Speaker 1: years ago. You know, these people were sitting around smiling, talking, 54 00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:50,080 Speaker 1: and I thought that we hadn't just done great research. 55 00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:53,440 Speaker 1: I thought we had also really helped people live their 56 00:03:53,480 --> 00:04:00,920 Speaker 1: lives better. But I was wrong, because almost everyone stopped 57 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:05,200 Speaker 1: exercising when our study had ended all those months before, 58 00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:07,440 Speaker 1: and so I was really curious, like why would you 59 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:11,800 Speaker 1: stop exercising? And they said, Michelle, do you have all day? 60 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:15,600 Speaker 1: I have a job, I have a family, I have this, 61 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:18,120 Speaker 1: that and the other. I have to help my aging parents. 62 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:21,640 Speaker 1: And it became very clear to me that these people 63 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:26,640 Speaker 1: had stopped exercising, not because they were cancer survivors, but 64 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:30,320 Speaker 1: because they were simply busy adults living their lives. And 65 00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:35,360 Speaker 1: I thought, wow, if people who faced a life threatening 66 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:39,920 Speaker 1: illness do not feel comfortable prioritizing their own self care 67 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:43,600 Speaker 1: through behaviors like physical activity, then we have a real 68 00:04:43,640 --> 00:04:46,559 Speaker 1: problem in society. And that's when I had this life 69 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:50,720 Speaker 1: bab moment. It's like, that's my problem, and I'm going 70 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:53,440 Speaker 1: to solve it. And so everything I've been, everything I've 71 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:57,240 Speaker 1: done since that time, has been in service of understanding 72 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:01,520 Speaker 1: what really gets in people's wa way when the rubber 73 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:05,919 Speaker 1: hits the road on a daily basis from a scientific perspective, 74 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:08,080 Speaker 1: but also as a health coach. 75 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:11,720 Speaker 2: As you said, there are so many different reasons why 76 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:16,520 Speaker 2: we may not make time not just for movement in 77 00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:18,840 Speaker 2: our day to day, but other important things that can 78 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:24,320 Speaker 2: benefit our health, like eating well perhaps or even prioritizing sleep, 79 00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:26,679 Speaker 2: like there are just so many different things that sometimes 80 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:29,599 Speaker 2: fall by the wayside when life gets hectic. 81 00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:34,680 Speaker 1: That's right, and you know it's you're right, it's true 82 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:37,880 Speaker 1: for any self care behavior. We could add meditation to 83 00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:40,120 Speaker 1: that list, you know, we could add so many things. 84 00:05:41,279 --> 00:05:45,480 Speaker 1: I do think it's important to say when it comes 85 00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:50,160 Speaker 1: to self care behaviors that I believe and contend that 86 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 1: healthy eating and exercise are kind of in a class 87 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:59,799 Speaker 1: of their own and come with unique disruptors, if you will. 88 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:03,200 Speaker 1: But you are right. I mean, when it comes to 89 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:06,440 Speaker 1: self care, it's just hard to keep it in the 90 00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:09,400 Speaker 1: forefront of our lives and on the top of our 91 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:10,239 Speaker 1: priority list. 92 00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:12,680 Speaker 2: That's so interesting that you feel as though that they're 93 00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:13,720 Speaker 2: in a class of their own. 94 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:20,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, And so here's the reason why in society we 95 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:25,800 Speaker 1: have primarily been socialized to eat better and exercise more 96 00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:32,480 Speaker 1: as a way to lose weight. And so what that does, 97 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:37,839 Speaker 1: that overarching purpose of weight loss then becomes the reasons 98 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:43,000 Speaker 1: why we exercise and try to change our diet, and 99 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:49,240 Speaker 1: those meanings become intricately integrated into our minds and bodies 100 00:06:49,279 --> 00:06:52,359 Speaker 1: when we exercise and when we change our eating patterns. 101 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:57,919 Speaker 1: And unfortunately, because weight loss is also wrapped up with 102 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:04,840 Speaker 1: internalized sigma and wadism and sense of failure and body 103 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:08,960 Speaker 1: shame and self consciousness, all of that, we bring all 104 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:12,680 Speaker 1: of that to our eating and exercise projects. And so 105 00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:15,280 Speaker 1: we don't bring that to sleep, we don't bring that 106 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:21,240 Speaker 1: to meditation and new theories and research on changes in 107 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:26,560 Speaker 1: eating and exercise are really about how this past experience 108 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:31,640 Speaker 1: in history with eating and exercise in our brains influence 109 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:36,080 Speaker 1: influences the choice we are about to make right now. 110 00:07:37,320 --> 00:07:42,920 Speaker 1: We bring all of that to our decisions right now, 111 00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:47,200 Speaker 1: and we don't bring those same things to our choices 112 00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:49,240 Speaker 1: about when we go to sleep, or when we get 113 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:52,280 Speaker 1: off social media or when we're going to meditate. 114 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:58,480 Speaker 2: Clearly, here we are getting to the theme that self 115 00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:03,360 Speaker 2: care super super important. Why don't we start off before 116 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:07,160 Speaker 2: we get into these disruptors by talking about the why? 117 00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 2: Why is it important? What happens if we don't make 118 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:12,600 Speaker 2: that time for ourselves? 119 00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:16,520 Speaker 1: Right? So, what happens when we don't make time for 120 00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:21,080 Speaker 1: our self care? We are physiological beings, right, and so 121 00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:26,160 Speaker 1: we need we to We can serve, We can survive 122 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:31,600 Speaker 1: without self care. But the question is do we want 123 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:35,960 Speaker 1: to survive in a depleted state? Our bodies, ourselves have 124 00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:40,440 Speaker 1: to regenerate. We we need renewal and recovery. And so 125 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:45,440 Speaker 1: if we don't practice consistent self care. And it's different 126 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:49,280 Speaker 1: for different people, right, and people have different self care hierarchies. 127 00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:52,400 Speaker 1: You know, my self care hierarchy, my foundational self care 128 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:56,360 Speaker 1: behavior is sleep, but for my husband it's physical activity. 129 00:08:56,360 --> 00:08:59,680 Speaker 1: He will skimp on sleep to get his exercise firsting 130 00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:03,480 Speaker 1: the more so, we all have our different priorities when 131 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:06,680 Speaker 1: it comes to which self care behavior has the most 132 00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:10,960 Speaker 1: bang for the self care book. But the bigger picture 133 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:15,079 Speaker 1: is that if we if we do not prioritize our 134 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:18,679 Speaker 1: own self care, then we get depleted. You know, that 135 00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:23,480 Speaker 1: can lead to so many things, from feeling depressed and 136 00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:30,040 Speaker 1: anxious and stressed, to how our bodies, you know, break 137 00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:33,439 Speaker 1: down if they're in a depleted state. Now, I am 138 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:36,040 Speaker 1: not an MD. I'm not a medical doctor, so I 139 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:39,920 Speaker 1: can't speak to the you know, to the breakdown of 140 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:42,959 Speaker 1: the physiological parts of the body. But you know, from 141 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:45,920 Speaker 1: a very general point of view, we know that our 142 00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:49,080 Speaker 1: brain really needs sleep and that when we don't get it, 143 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:53,560 Speaker 1: it isn't good for our brains functioning. So but you know, 144 00:09:53,679 --> 00:09:57,400 Speaker 1: that's all health stuff. And my research suggests that focusing 145 00:09:57,480 --> 00:10:01,520 Speaker 1: on those types of broad health reasons for self care 146 00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:05,240 Speaker 1: in theory makes sense and sound good, and most people 147 00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:07,560 Speaker 1: would endorse and say, yeah, I care about being healthy, 148 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:10,160 Speaker 1: But when it comes to fitting it in and making 149 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:13,839 Speaker 1: it a consistent priority, that's not the reason that most 150 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:17,480 Speaker 1: people that would motivate most people to do it day 151 00:10:17,480 --> 00:10:20,160 Speaker 1: in and day out, and those reasons though, the purpose 152 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:23,880 Speaker 1: and why relates to how we feel in function every 153 00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:25,120 Speaker 1: day period. 154 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:29,240 Speaker 2: It's so interesting, right because even going back to what 155 00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:32,920 Speaker 2: you were saying at the top of our conversation, noting 156 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:37,280 Speaker 2: that these people didn't feel as though that great feeling 157 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:43,280 Speaker 2: was enough for them to come back to prioritizing movement, 158 00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:47,240 Speaker 2: but for some some crave it. Is there a difference 159 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:49,320 Speaker 2: between those two types of people. 160 00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 1: Well, it's a complicated answer because absolutely, you know, there 161 00:10:57,040 --> 00:11:01,760 Speaker 1: are genetic differences between you know that I don't think 162 00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:04,520 Speaker 1: are well understood at all. This is at the most 163 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:07,640 Speaker 1: beginning level. There are some people that might be more 164 00:11:07,679 --> 00:11:10,120 Speaker 1: inclined to want to sit on the couch, and then 165 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:12,520 Speaker 1: there are some people who just can't stop moving, and 166 00:11:12,559 --> 00:11:16,200 Speaker 1: those are some you know, predispositions. But you know, I 167 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:20,680 Speaker 1: think more to your question is why do some people 168 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:24,120 Speaker 1: love running and some people, you know want to run 169 00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:29,400 Speaker 1: away from running? And that that really gets to the 170 00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:34,360 Speaker 1: ways in which we've been socialized to think about running 171 00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:38,160 Speaker 1: or exercise or walking, the experiences we've had with it. 172 00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:41,239 Speaker 1: You know, a lot of people who've had negative experiences, 173 00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:44,160 Speaker 1: whether they were forced to run in pe or while 174 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:48,320 Speaker 1: they were on a sports team. You know, I remember 175 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:51,480 Speaker 1: trying to be on the swim team, but the actual 176 00:11:51,600 --> 00:11:54,640 Speaker 1: act of being forced, you know, swimming fast and having 177 00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:57,439 Speaker 1: to swim fast to be on the team, it left 178 00:11:57,520 --> 00:12:00,520 Speaker 1: me hating swimming. You know that. You know, that's just 179 00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:02,640 Speaker 1: my own experience. But you know, I've been working with 180 00:12:02,679 --> 00:12:06,360 Speaker 1: people for almost three decades with this question, and I 181 00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:09,560 Speaker 1: see that the past experiences, and of course it's what 182 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:14,359 Speaker 1: the new theories say too. We carry these past experiences. 183 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:18,320 Speaker 1: So someone who has had positive experiences with running, like 184 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:22,520 Speaker 1: me when I was thirteen years old, man, that is 185 00:12:22,760 --> 00:12:25,160 Speaker 1: a way for me to take care of myself, but 186 00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:29,440 Speaker 1: for someone else it feels punishing. And how can actually, 187 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:33,040 Speaker 1: how can something that feels punishing constitute self care? 188 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:34,040 Speaker 2: Right? 189 00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:35,120 Speaker 1: Right? 190 00:12:35,520 --> 00:12:37,880 Speaker 2: So the question then becomes, I mean, this is not 191 00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:41,280 Speaker 2: in the direction that we are going to go. But 192 00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:45,680 Speaker 2: a side note here is how does that reframing happen? 193 00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:51,240 Speaker 1: Then? Wow, it it can happen. It needs to happen 194 00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:53,880 Speaker 1: on a societal level. And I'm you know, I'm happy 195 00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:58,920 Speaker 1: to say that I'm beginning to see the industry leaders 196 00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:05,480 Speaker 1: you know, the trade organizations that inform how gyms and 197 00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:09,199 Speaker 1: clubs around the world do things. You know, it used 198 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:12,400 Speaker 1: to be called URSA. Now it's got a different name. 199 00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:16,840 Speaker 1: I think it's Global Health and Fitness. They the huge 200 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:23,280 Speaker 1: ship in industries are starting to change because they've discovered 201 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:28,880 Speaker 1: that the approach the method has creating has created experiences 202 00:13:28,920 --> 00:13:31,880 Speaker 1: and meanings that only a small minority of the population 203 00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:36,200 Speaker 1: resonate within everyone else. The vast majority of people have 204 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:39,320 Speaker 1: been left behind. So you know that the answer is 205 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:42,960 Speaker 1: that we The best solution is going to be when 206 00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:48,040 Speaker 1: new marketing messages from you know, from the shoe companies 207 00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:54,320 Speaker 1: and the athletic gear companies start attracting and speaking to 208 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:57,160 Speaker 1: those of us who've been left behind, which again is 209 00:13:57,200 --> 00:13:59,800 Speaker 1: the majority now on an individual level. As a health 210 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:02,960 Speaker 1: co coach, you know, that's what I do is I 211 00:14:03,080 --> 00:14:07,880 Speaker 1: help people reframe the meaning and purpose and experience of 212 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:12,800 Speaker 1: self care behaviors like physical activity. And the most important 213 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:17,760 Speaker 1: part is to start by helping people understand that, you know, 214 00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:21,480 Speaker 1: if they hate exercise and they haven't been successful sticking 215 00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:26,560 Speaker 1: with it over time, it's not their fault. People think 216 00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:30,080 Speaker 1: it's their fault. They think there's some innate flaw. I'm 217 00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:35,280 Speaker 1: not athletic enough. I'm lazy. You know, my friends and 218 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:37,880 Speaker 1: my family members, I see them running and training for 219 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:40,600 Speaker 1: marathons and going to the gym regularly, but I've never 220 00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:44,760 Speaker 1: been successful, and people blame themselves. It couldn't be further 221 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:49,600 Speaker 1: from the truth. The reality is that the system, our 222 00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:55,360 Speaker 1: whole societal approach, both out of healthcare out of the 223 00:14:55,400 --> 00:15:00,120 Speaker 1: fitness industry, has set most people up to fail. And 224 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:03,359 Speaker 1: again there's no I'm not pointing fingers at the industry 225 00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:07,520 Speaker 1: and clinicians. It is simply the way our society has 226 00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:12,200 Speaker 1: evolved in the way we value things like physical activity, 227 00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:18,760 Speaker 1: and it's been focused on weight physiological doses, you know, 228 00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:23,520 Speaker 1: doses of exercise that's going to get optimal cellular responses. 229 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:26,640 Speaker 1: But that doesn't when we leave the lab and the 230 00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:28,840 Speaker 1: great research that's been done and we go into our 231 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:32,760 Speaker 1: real lives and how human beings make decisions. There's this 232 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:39,040 Speaker 1: huge disconnect and so to make the connection we have 233 00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:42,520 Speaker 1: to actually to reframe it. We those of us in 234 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:46,000 Speaker 1: the field who are working with people and helping organizations 235 00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:50,080 Speaker 1: work with people, we have to reframe it for them, 236 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:54,080 Speaker 1: and it starts with helping people understand that the system 237 00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:57,160 Speaker 1: is broken. It's not them. 238 00:15:56,920 --> 00:16:00,760 Speaker 2: Right right, And so this easily segues us into talking 239 00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:04,360 Speaker 2: about these decision disruptors, the things that can get in 240 00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:07,120 Speaker 2: the way when it comes to taking care of ourselves. 241 00:16:07,160 --> 00:16:09,880 Speaker 2: So kick us off with the first one, and that 242 00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:10,840 Speaker 2: is temptation. 243 00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:16,760 Speaker 1: Yes, so temptation. Can I say one thing before we jump? Believe? Okay? 244 00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:22,040 Speaker 1: So why do we care about the disruptors to our decisions? 245 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:26,240 Speaker 1: The reason is is because if we care about creating 246 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:29,840 Speaker 1: changes that can last with our healthy eating and exercise 247 00:16:29,880 --> 00:16:33,680 Speaker 1: and other self care behaviors, the way that happens, what 248 00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:39,560 Speaker 1: drives sustainability is making decisions that consistently support our greater 249 00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:43,040 Speaker 1: goals day in and day out, right now, right now, 250 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:46,440 Speaker 1: right now, and right now. So if we don't know 251 00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:50,040 Speaker 1: how to navigate that which gets in our way, that 252 00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:53,680 Speaker 1: which when our plans go awry, which is what derails 253 00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:56,240 Speaker 1: us and takes us off the path of lasting change. 254 00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:59,680 Speaker 1: If we don't know how to navigate those what I'm 255 00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:05,000 Speaker 1: calling choice points, the challenges to our plans for self care, 256 00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:08,399 Speaker 1: healthy eating, exercise, meditation, going to sleep at a certain time, 257 00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:13,359 Speaker 1: then we can't achieve the consistent decision making that we need. 258 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:16,159 Speaker 1: So I just wanted to contextualize. So the things that 259 00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:20,160 Speaker 1: get in our way I found in my coaching are 260 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:22,879 Speaker 1: four primary things. And as you said, you tipped us 261 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:27,679 Speaker 1: off temptation. What is temptation as a disruptor to our decisions? 262 00:17:28,080 --> 00:17:33,280 Speaker 1: Temptation is having an eating plan that's going well, and 263 00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:36,200 Speaker 1: then all of a sudden, we find ourselves at a party. 264 00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:39,399 Speaker 1: We enter the door thinking we've got you know, the 265 00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:42,000 Speaker 1: wherewithal and the commitment to stick to our plan, and 266 00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:47,200 Speaker 1: then we see that beautiful piece of chocolate cake listening 267 00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:51,159 Speaker 1: from across the room, and we feel this visceral pull 268 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:53,960 Speaker 1: to want to go eat it, even though it is 269 00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:58,239 Speaker 1: completely not on our eating plan. Or we had a 270 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:01,880 Speaker 1: plan after work to go for a run, and we 271 00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:05,240 Speaker 1: walk into our house and that couch and the remote 272 00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:10,480 Speaker 1: is just seductively calling our name. That in its very 273 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:16,600 Speaker 1: essence is temptation. And I'm sure everyone listening can relate 274 00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:20,600 Speaker 1: to those types of feelings. They're visceral. But here's what 275 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:24,240 Speaker 1: we need to know about temptation, and it's what we 276 00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:27,720 Speaker 1: need to know to help us actually reclaim our power 277 00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:34,159 Speaker 1: away from the you know that seduction. The research, the 278 00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:39,000 Speaker 1: new research, the new theorizing about our decision making around 279 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:44,720 Speaker 1: eating an exercise situates each choice we're about to make 280 00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:50,600 Speaker 1: within our past history with eating the cake and getting 281 00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:52,560 Speaker 1: on the couch or going for the run. And if 282 00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:56,760 Speaker 1: we're talking about the run, for example, and this ties 283 00:18:56,840 --> 00:19:00,600 Speaker 1: back to something I said earlier, if we have been 284 00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:04,639 Speaker 1: taunted and pe when we ran, if we feel uncomfortable 285 00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:09,639 Speaker 1: and overweight when we run, we bring those memories to 286 00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:14,119 Speaker 1: our right before we make the choice, and that would 287 00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:18,840 Speaker 1: lead us that brand's physical activity in our mind in 288 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:20,919 Speaker 1: a really negative way, so that when we come to 289 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:23,800 Speaker 1: that choice, temptation is more likely to win out in 290 00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:28,800 Speaker 1: that moment. But by understanding how it works, and instead 291 00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:31,800 Speaker 1: of feeling like the cake or the couch has power 292 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:35,200 Speaker 1: over me, it's pulling me like a magnet, we can 293 00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:39,000 Speaker 1: say to ourselves, you know what, that's not really the 294 00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:42,720 Speaker 1: cake that's calling my name. It's actually the last time 295 00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:45,480 Speaker 1: I eat the cake and who I was with. And 296 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:49,359 Speaker 1: the very act of bringing self awareness to what's going on, 297 00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:56,119 Speaker 1: bringing our prefrontal cortex into the conversation, it takes away 298 00:19:56,240 --> 00:20:01,480 Speaker 1: some of the visceral experiential pull that we're So that's temptation. 299 00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:09,000 Speaker 2: Taking a break from today's episode to give some love 300 00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:12,280 Speaker 2: to my sponsor at Gooder. It's that time of year 301 00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:15,919 Speaker 2: where I am rarely stepping outside without a pair of 302 00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:19,960 Speaker 2: sunglasses in tow, and more often than not, I'm heading 303 00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:22,080 Speaker 2: to do a lot of things at once, which means 304 00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:24,760 Speaker 2: I'm tackling a workout, then I'm running errands. Then maybe 305 00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:27,320 Speaker 2: I'm running to meet a friend for lunch or dinner 306 00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:30,399 Speaker 2: or who knows what. So all of us to say, 307 00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:32,600 Speaker 2: I need a pair of sunnies that can move with me, 308 00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:35,520 Speaker 2: and that is where Gooder comes in the clutch. 309 00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:36,640 Speaker 1: I love how these. 310 00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:40,560 Speaker 2: Are no slip, no bounced, and polarized. Plus they have 311 00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:44,040 Speaker 2: a different shape and style for every taste. 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Again 325 00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:34,000 Speaker 2: that's hurdle one five at checkout at Gooder dot com 326 00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:41,399 Speaker 2: slash hurdle. You know the thing that's interesting to me 327 00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:44,040 Speaker 2: because I definitely and certainly relate to what you're saying. 328 00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:47,439 Speaker 2: This kind of throwback moment too. If you had a 329 00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:50,320 Speaker 2: problem running the mile in middle school, then you may 330 00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:52,840 Speaker 2: feel some kind of way about running as an adult. 331 00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:55,360 Speaker 2: I'm gonna be honest with you, I don't know many 332 00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:57,399 Speaker 2: people that didn't have a problem running the mile in 333 00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:01,480 Speaker 2: middle school. Like everyone was triumph traumatized by their middle 334 00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:05,160 Speaker 2: their high school mile experience. It comes back to are 335 00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:09,080 Speaker 2: you going to choose to reframe that and take agency 336 00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:13,240 Speaker 2: over what can happen? Yes? But yes, exactly what you're saying. 337 00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:16,040 Speaker 2: It all totally makes sense to me. So I know 338 00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:20,720 Speaker 2: that the next one here, the next disruptor, rebellion. Talk 339 00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:21,640 Speaker 2: to us about rebellion. 340 00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:26,760 Speaker 1: Yes, so rebellion you know, speaks for itself too. It's 341 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:29,880 Speaker 1: when we initiate a behavior out of a should, which 342 00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:34,080 Speaker 1: we've been taught to do in society. It's human nature 343 00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:36,600 Speaker 1: to want to reclaim our freedom. So when we feel 344 00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:40,240 Speaker 1: like I can't eat that cake, or I should eat 345 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:42,440 Speaker 1: this other thing that I don't actually want to eat, 346 00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:44,679 Speaker 1: or that isn't going to be as good, or I 347 00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:49,680 Speaker 1: should take that run that we are literally putting our 348 00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:51,520 Speaker 1: choice in it. You know, it's going to be a 349 00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:55,600 Speaker 1: boomerang where we just go in the exact different direction 350 00:22:55,760 --> 00:22:58,639 Speaker 1: than we started out with. And you know, there's this 351 00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:01,959 Speaker 1: theory called reactance theory, and there's just been tons of 352 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:06,600 Speaker 1: research on this. So if we initiate a change out 353 00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:10,920 Speaker 1: of shoulds, whether it's because we feel that we're you know, 354 00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:15,440 Speaker 1: we don't like, uh, we don't meet the mold, our 355 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:20,680 Speaker 1: doctor is admonishing us. Whatever the should is, it influences 356 00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:24,439 Speaker 1: and and and in a very non optimal way, it 357 00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:27,000 Speaker 1: gets us to do the opposite. So that's rebellion and 358 00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:30,720 Speaker 1: you know people probably resonate with that too. Before we 359 00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:33,879 Speaker 1: move into accommodation, I just want to say it is 360 00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:38,760 Speaker 1: easy to say that people, people, it is our choice 361 00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:41,800 Speaker 1: to do things. But if we don't understand that it's 362 00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:44,520 Speaker 1: not our fault. It's hard to have agency with that. 363 00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:48,879 Speaker 1: So I do think part of let part of people 364 00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:52,240 Speaker 1: developing the agency to say, yeah, that was PE, and 365 00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:54,840 Speaker 1: I don't have to let that control the rest of 366 00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:58,000 Speaker 1: my life. They need to understand that the feelings are 367 00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:01,520 Speaker 1: from PE and then they can say, okay, this is 368 00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:04,320 Speaker 1: then what do I want to do now? And a 369 00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:06,439 Speaker 1: really great solution to the what do I want to 370 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:10,399 Speaker 1: do now is toss running out and take a walk, 371 00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:15,520 Speaker 1: do roller blade, you know, do something that you're choosing 372 00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:17,600 Speaker 1: to do because you want to do and it meets 373 00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:21,080 Speaker 1: your preference. So I want to say that it's not 374 00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:24,000 Speaker 1: quite as easy when you've got this kind of history. 375 00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:27,159 Speaker 1: But when you name it, as Dan Siegel says, you 376 00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:30,720 Speaker 1: tame it. And that's a key part of how we reframe. 377 00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:32,320 Speaker 2: You name it, you tame it. 378 00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:35,280 Speaker 1: I like that. So should I move on to the 379 00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:39,200 Speaker 1: next Let's move on to the next. Okay, So accommodation 380 00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:44,480 Speaker 1: is a little different because this has to do this. 381 00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:46,840 Speaker 1: This goes back to what got me into this field 382 00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:51,120 Speaker 1: almost thirty years ago. It has to do with what 383 00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:55,159 Speaker 1: the cancer survivors told me. Accommodation is when we consistently 384 00:24:55,400 --> 00:25:00,639 Speaker 1: put not sometimes when we consistently put our own self 385 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:04,640 Speaker 1: care needs behind the needs of other people in projects. 386 00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:07,359 Speaker 1: And let me give you a sho Can I tell 387 00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:11,439 Speaker 1: you a short story about the constitution? So this is 388 00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:14,480 Speaker 1: I have two stories, one about exercise and ones about eating. 389 00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:18,000 Speaker 1: I'll start with the exercise story. I was brought into 390 00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:22,520 Speaker 1: train clinicians in a health system. They had a new 391 00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:25,720 Speaker 1: building with a free, state of the art gym, and 392 00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:29,639 Speaker 1: I gave this, you know, did the training. Afterwards, the 393 00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:33,600 Speaker 1: gentleman who had hired me took me aside and he 394 00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:37,119 Speaker 1: kind of whispered in my ear in a confessional you 395 00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:44,960 Speaker 1: know voice. I don't feel comfortable prioritizing taking time to exercise. 396 00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:48,000 Speaker 1: I always feel like I should be working. And on 397 00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:52,560 Speaker 1: the days when I do go exercise, I actually hide 398 00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:55,159 Speaker 1: behind the pillars on the way to the gym so 399 00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:59,560 Speaker 1: that other people don't see that I'm doing it. So 400 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:02,480 Speaker 1: let's think about that for a minute. This is a 401 00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:06,760 Speaker 1: leader in healthcare. There's a gym, he's in charge. He 402 00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:09,520 Speaker 1: really doesn't have to worry about getting into trouble. Yet 403 00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:16,159 Speaker 1: he has internalized values that say him always working is 404 00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:19,159 Speaker 1: more important than taking this time for renewal. For the 405 00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:21,320 Speaker 1: reasons that you and I had talked about earlier. So 406 00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:25,760 Speaker 1: that's accommodation, you know, in a nutshell. When it comes 407 00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:30,600 Speaker 1: to physical activity, it's deciding not to do something. You're 408 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:32,840 Speaker 1: about to leave to go to the gym or to 409 00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:35,560 Speaker 1: take a walk with a friend, and someone calls you 410 00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:37,680 Speaker 1: and needs something from you. Now, these aren't This isn't 411 00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:40,520 Speaker 1: like your boss saying I need this from you in 412 00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:43,560 Speaker 1: five minutes. This is a request from someone that you 413 00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:46,600 Speaker 1: care about and respect and want to help. But if 414 00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:50,959 Speaker 1: you always say okay when you're about to leave, well 415 00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:54,320 Speaker 1: that means you never get to that important self care piece. 416 00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:57,400 Speaker 1: And people do with eating in different ways, right, They 417 00:26:57,440 --> 00:26:59,720 Speaker 1: eat something that when they actually don't even want to, 418 00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:04,639 Speaker 1: just to please someone, and so that is accommodation in 419 00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:05,280 Speaker 1: a nutshell. 420 00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:08,000 Speaker 2: It's like when you go out to dinner with a 421 00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:11,440 Speaker 2: few friends and one person says, why don't we get this? 422 00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:14,760 Speaker 2: And you may not want that thing, but you also 423 00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:17,040 Speaker 2: don't want to be the person that's like the downer 424 00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:20,320 Speaker 2: on that note, So you agree, right, and then you 425 00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:23,160 Speaker 2: may eat whatever it is. You knew when you got 426 00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:25,000 Speaker 2: there that you didn't want to go in that direction, 427 00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:28,119 Speaker 2: and you leave there not really feeling fulfilled or happy 428 00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:30,200 Speaker 2: that you deviated from where you started. 429 00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:35,359 Speaker 1: And that is that completely reflects the story that I 430 00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:38,399 Speaker 1: was going to tell about eating. Yes, so you know 431 00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:42,360 Speaker 1: it happens all the time. So one of the things 432 00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:46,920 Speaker 1: to address accommodation in those types of situations is, I mean, 433 00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:50,960 Speaker 1: let's just play this out for a minute. Imagine that 434 00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:55,640 Speaker 1: you're imagine that you ever should for your eating even 435 00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:57,399 Speaker 1: though you may not want to go in that direction. 436 00:27:57,640 --> 00:27:59,720 Speaker 1: The reason why you don't is because you had recently 437 00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:02,040 Speaker 1: start this new eating plan and it feels like it 438 00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:06,920 Speaker 1: should and you feel all this temptation, like how much 439 00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:10,280 Speaker 1: easier is it to go along with it when your 440 00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:13,800 Speaker 1: reason for doing it feels like it's controlling you, and 441 00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:16,159 Speaker 1: you are like, screw you, I'm gonna do what I 442 00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:19,080 Speaker 1: want to do, right, that's the human nature response. But 443 00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:21,720 Speaker 1: if you're not in this situation, so that sets you 444 00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:24,360 Speaker 1: up even more right to do what you don't want 445 00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:27,119 Speaker 1: to do. But let's say you are wholly in one 446 00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:29,440 Speaker 1: hundred percent you have ownership over the way you want 447 00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:31,399 Speaker 1: to eat, and you do not want to eat that 448 00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:36,040 Speaker 1: in those circumstances, it's it's first of all, you most 449 00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:40,040 Speaker 1: likely have a truly compelling why like and it's working 450 00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:43,800 Speaker 1: for you. You're feeling better. You own your why. So 451 00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:48,240 Speaker 1: the thing to do is, you know you people need 452 00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:50,000 Speaker 1: to learn to do this because we haven't been taught 453 00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:52,280 Speaker 1: to do it. It has to do with, you know, social 454 00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:56,600 Speaker 1: graces and social anxiety. But people can learn to say 455 00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:59,479 Speaker 1: to their people when they're out, you know, I'm not 456 00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:01,600 Speaker 1: really into that tonight. I think I'm going to skip it, 457 00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:03,520 Speaker 1: or you know, you guys go ahead and order it. 458 00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:06,360 Speaker 1: I'm going to pass, or I'm going to get this instead. 459 00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:09,800 Speaker 1: I mean. The thing is, once we start thinking and 460 00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:13,200 Speaker 1: talking about it, and maybe even practicing with a partner 461 00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:17,600 Speaker 1: or a friend, it becomes easier than we think it is. 462 00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:22,000 Speaker 2: Right, taking that step, getting a little uncomfortable in the 463 00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:25,680 Speaker 2: long haul can actually make you feel better, and that's 464 00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:30,800 Speaker 2: you taking that agency over your own self care. And last, 465 00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:32,640 Speaker 2: but not least, here, we're going to talk a little 466 00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:34,560 Speaker 2: bit about perfection. 467 00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:39,680 Speaker 1: And perfection sets the stage for everything else. It's what 468 00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:42,720 Speaker 1: promotes all or nothing thinking. So let's go back to 469 00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:45,600 Speaker 1: your situation. Let's just say I don't know what would 470 00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:47,680 Speaker 1: give me an example of what that food would be 471 00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:48,720 Speaker 1: that you don't want to eat. 472 00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:52,120 Speaker 2: Maybe they want to get a side of fries, or 473 00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:56,240 Speaker 2: everyone wants to go in on fried calamari or something that. 474 00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:58,880 Speaker 2: And I want to make sure that I make this clear. 475 00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:01,760 Speaker 2: I'm not demonized those foods, but I'm just saying if 476 00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:04,479 Speaker 2: you went out on a Thursday with your friends and 477 00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:07,560 Speaker 2: you were hoping or trying to maybe eat a little 478 00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:09,720 Speaker 2: bit cleaner, and you end up in a situation where 479 00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:12,280 Speaker 2: everyone else is okay eating those things that you didn't 480 00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:14,920 Speaker 2: want to show up and eat yourself, then it can 481 00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:16,720 Speaker 2: be a little difficult and a little frustrating. 482 00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:21,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, so let's bring perfection to that decision disruptor. 483 00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:28,080 Speaker 1: So if it's eating like everyone else eating folding the 484 00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:32,160 Speaker 1: same pattern, or eating you know, if they put plates 485 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:36,040 Speaker 1: and they doled out the column are you know, big 486 00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:40,680 Speaker 1: heap on everyone's little appetizer plates, and you feel like 487 00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:43,040 Speaker 1: I have to eat the whole thing, you know, or 488 00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:46,400 Speaker 1: I can't have any of it. Right, It's this extreme 489 00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:50,560 Speaker 1: all or nothing that's perfection. And what it does is 490 00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:54,960 Speaker 1: it if you're feeling tempted and maybe ideally you wanted 491 00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:56,600 Speaker 1: to eat clean and you didn't want the colum rade, 492 00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:58,720 Speaker 1: but then you're with your friends and you want to 493 00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:02,000 Speaker 1: partake in the celebratory evening, and you're like, I do 494 00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:06,640 Speaker 1: like calamari. Perfection doesn't a lot us say I'm going 495 00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:10,400 Speaker 1: to have two pieces of calamari, and you know, as 496 00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:16,560 Speaker 1: that's my compromise. So those four things, temptation, rebellion, accommodation 497 00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:19,960 Speaker 1: and perfection, and perfection sets the stage for all the rest. 498 00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:23,360 Speaker 1: They're the noise in our heads. It's the stressful narrative 499 00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:27,240 Speaker 1: or even unconscious narrative that is going on when we're 500 00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:28,720 Speaker 1: at this point, like what am I going to do? 501 00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:31,080 Speaker 1: What am I going to do? I didn't I want 502 00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:32,960 Speaker 1: to eat clean, I don't want to have calamari, but 503 00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:36,680 Speaker 1: I really want the calamari. When we can name eat 504 00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:40,560 Speaker 1: those things in the moment, that's and that is why 505 00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:43,080 Speaker 1: we pause before we do it. That's why there's a 506 00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:48,280 Speaker 1: decision tool to help people do the strategic tactical thinking 507 00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:53,080 Speaker 1: that enables them to name the decision disruptors or what 508 00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:56,200 Speaker 1: I call the decision traps, so that they contain them 509 00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:59,600 Speaker 1: in the moment and make a choice that is more 510 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:05,080 Speaker 1: but that they are more autonomously choosing, not reacting out 511 00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:06,400 Speaker 1: of or succumbing to. 512 00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:10,280 Speaker 2: All of this so so interesting and like you said, 513 00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:13,920 Speaker 2: so so helpful because this knowledge helps us better inform 514 00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:15,880 Speaker 2: the choices that we make going forward, so that we 515 00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:18,840 Speaker 2: can prioritize what it is that we really want. 516 00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:21,840 Speaker 1: And sometimes you may really want to call Mari and that's. 517 00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:23,760 Speaker 2: Just fine, Michelle. 518 00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:25,040 Speaker 1: What else do we need to know? 519 00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:27,120 Speaker 2: Anything you want to add before we wrap this up 520 00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:27,600 Speaker 2: with a bow. 521 00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:33,000 Speaker 1: If people resonated with the decision disruptors or the traps, 522 00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:36,040 Speaker 1: then they should feel free to go to my website 523 00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:37,800 Speaker 1: where I have a quiz and they can take it 524 00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:41,840 Speaker 1: and discover what their true traps are. And by knowing that, 525 00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:45,480 Speaker 1: they'll be more strategically able to name what's getting in 526 00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:48,920 Speaker 1: their way when they're at these points of conflict. And 527 00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:50,560 Speaker 1: you know it's on my website. 528 00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:53,480 Speaker 2: Amazing, So tell the hurdlers, how do they follow along 529 00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:56,400 Speaker 2: with you? What's that website address? Give us all the details? 530 00:32:56,520 --> 00:33:01,080 Speaker 1: Sure, it's Michelle seeger dot com e G A R. 531 00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:04,520 Speaker 1: And if people are intrigued by these ideas, they should 532 00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:06,680 Speaker 1: also feel free to check out my new book, The 533 00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:09,760 Speaker 1: Joy Choice, and to sign up for my newsletter which 534 00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:10,360 Speaker 1: is also there. 535 00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:14,160 Speaker 2: Amazing. I'm over at Emily Body and at Hurdle Podcast, 536 00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:17,320 Speaker 2: another hurdle conquered. Catch you guys next time.