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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show.

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Speaker 1: My name is Matt, my name is They call me Ben.

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Speaker 1: We are joined as always with our super producer Paul

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Speaker 1: Mission controlled decans. Most importantly, you are you. You are here,

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Speaker 1: and that makes this the stuff they don't want you

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Speaker 1: to know. Strap in, folks, this is gonna be a

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Speaker 1: wild ride. We're going back to something that is considered

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Speaker 1: sometimes a third rail in the world of conspiracy lore,

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Speaker 1: the idea that sinister forces insert your favorite here, folks,

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Speaker 1: assassinated President John F. Kennedy and possibly later his brother

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Speaker 1: Robert Kennedy. This conspiracy looms large, and it's a question

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Speaker 1: people still ask themselves in one We know this because

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Speaker 1: on personal social media and on the show's social platforms

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Speaker 1: and emails and phone calls, we get this question a lot.

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Speaker 1: Who really killed President JFK? Is the first part of

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Speaker 1: a two part episode, and don't worry, both parts of

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Speaker 1: this series are chock full of conspiracies, both imagined and

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Speaker 1: get this rarely get to say this at the top

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Speaker 1: of the show, Conspiracies Imagined and Real. So before we

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Speaker 1: jump into the facts here, um, you know, Matt Noel,

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Speaker 1: we all listened back to some of our earlier episodes

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Speaker 1: on this. We did one in seventeen, we did one

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Speaker 1: a few years before, and in each case we were

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Speaker 1: working with the facts, uh, with the facts we had

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Speaker 1: at hand, but we didn't go quite as deep as

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Speaker 1: we're going this time. So I wanted to ask you, guys,

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Speaker 1: what what stood out to you? What do you what

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Speaker 1: do you recollect about our previous explorations. The first thing

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Speaker 1: is that we were all excited that in seventeen documents

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Speaker 1: would be released. Yeah, and the disclosure all over again. Right,

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Speaker 1: It's like, oh goody, a treasure trove of truths coming

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Speaker 1: from the government, the benevolent government, to shed some light

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Speaker 1: on this mystery. Well yeah, and we also noted that

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Speaker 1: numerous documents had been released over you know, since the assassination,

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Speaker 1: since in the nineteen seventies when some of these rules

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Speaker 1: came into place, the laws were put in a place

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Speaker 1: that these documents would be released. Then again, to listen

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Speaker 1: in twenty seventeen, which feels like a lifetime ago. You guys,

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Speaker 1: we were excited that many documents have been released, but

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Speaker 1: there were still some that were being held onto right

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Speaker 1: and man, and unlike some other shows, uh, we actually

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Speaker 1: read these documents, right, not just think pieces about them.

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Speaker 1: So you can if you listen to those shows and

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Speaker 1: some of the other mentions we do and things like

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Speaker 1: in RFK episode or some of the YouTube stuff we've done.

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Speaker 1: I what I thought was just kind of delightful and

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Speaker 1: all SHUXI was the slow decline and optimism because it's

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Speaker 1: very much a jam tomorrow, jam yesterday, never ever jam today.

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Speaker 1: And it's been that way since that law that you're

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Speaker 1: alluding to, Matt, where the CIA was charged with eventually

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Speaker 1: caveat et cetera declassifying some of these things. I think

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Speaker 1: my favorite part of the episode two is are we

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Speaker 1: kind of like bemoan the plight of like professional redactors,

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Speaker 1: you know, who have to go through with like the

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Speaker 1: black highlighter pen, which is honestly the opposite of a

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Speaker 1: highlighter was a lowlighter. It shouldn't be called a redacting

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Speaker 1: pen because it's just like a big black, you know,

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Speaker 1: thick marker. Uh, and is go into town on those

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Speaker 1: bad boys and and Matt you made the excellent point

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Speaker 1: that while this is obviously a very tedious task that

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Speaker 1: probably wouldn't wish on our worst enemy, it's incredibly important

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Speaker 1: and these people have to be working with a pretty

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Speaker 1: high level of precision um otherwise, you know, things could

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Speaker 1: could get through that could be very bad for the government,

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Speaker 1: and they do they very much. Well. Imagine the cross

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Speaker 1: fence referencing that has to occur in that process, right,

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Speaker 1: Like the number of other documents, You've got to make

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Speaker 1: sure that this one sentence or this one word doesn't

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Speaker 1: infringe or infract something that's going on over here. I

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Speaker 1: can't remember what it was. There was something I was reading.

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Speaker 1: It's it's uh, it's tough to look back through the

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Speaker 1: years here, but there was something I was reading and

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Speaker 1: I came across the page that was so heavily redacted.

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Speaker 1: I you not. There were two unredacted words on there,

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Speaker 1: and I one of them was the word to stay.

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Speaker 1: That's it. Somebody went through with that highlighter and again

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Speaker 1: painstakingly cross referenced everything. And they were like, I think

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Speaker 1: we can say it's Tuesday. I think we can. I mean,

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Speaker 1: at that point, why did you redact the whole thing?

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Speaker 1: And why it seems like almost like a troll. You know, well,

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Speaker 1: give them Tuesday. Yeah, yeah, because sometimes there are government

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Speaker 1: mandates that say you have to release the documents, right, so,

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Speaker 1: but they don't say you have to release them in full.

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Speaker 1: They don't say, uh, you know how they must be

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Speaker 1: released in a lot of ways, unless they say, unless

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Speaker 1: they impose restrictions such as, uh, not creating an identifiable threat.

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Speaker 1: That was that was the most recent one. This is uh,

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Speaker 1: we're going to get into it. This conspiracy theory is

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Speaker 1: a political You're gonna find people of all ideologies who

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Speaker 1: believe some version of it, and they all agree, maybe

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Speaker 1: not on the specifics, but they all agree that there's

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Speaker 1: something fishy about the official story, something fishy about the

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Speaker 1: official story. Whatever, leave it in. We're gonna leave it in.

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Speaker 1: There's something a fishy about the about this story. How

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Speaker 1: about that? So here here are the facts, and we

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Speaker 1: need to set this up because it's gonna be important

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Speaker 1: to the conspiracies that are afoot as we speak. Someone

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Speaker 1: have you believe? First? JFK thirty five, President of the

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Speaker 1: United States in office from nine one nineteen sixty three,

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Speaker 1: He's only forty three years old when he gets elected,

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Speaker 1: which we know for some conspiracy realist in the crowd,

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Speaker 1: that sounds very very old. But you'll get there probably

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Speaker 1: sooner than you think. And uh yeah, and he um.

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Speaker 1: He was set up for success. This is something that

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Speaker 1: is unfortunately, very very very common in American politics. He

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Speaker 1: was the son of privilege. This was not a guy

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Speaker 1: who was staying up at night worried about the light

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Speaker 1: or worried about his next meal. He's an old Massachusetts

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Speaker 1: money kind of a silver spoon, firmly implanted in mouth situation. Yes,

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Speaker 1: but I only had the wat Oh wait, wait, no,

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Speaker 1: I'm going I'm going Stephen King. That's too main. That

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Speaker 1: was gonna be. You know what, I liked it. I

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Speaker 1: like the hybrid King Kennedy vibes there um as as

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Speaker 1: is befitting of of of the silver spoon situation. Um.

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Speaker 1: Kennedy graduated from Hallwood in and then he joined the

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Speaker 1: navy UM and he did make quite a name for

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Speaker 1: himself as a leader during wartime UM. Specifically, in three

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Speaker 1: his boat was attacked and actually sunk by a Japanese destroyer,

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Speaker 1: and he was able to lead the survivors to safety

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Speaker 1: and that that is the thing, like, you know, you

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Speaker 1: can you can say what you will about coming from

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Speaker 1: a place of privilege like that. He did not have

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Speaker 1: to join the navy. I mean, so many people join

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Speaker 1: the military or joined the navy because they don't have privilege,

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Speaker 1: because they need you know, the uh, the funds that

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Speaker 1: that comes with that are like, you know, the ability

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Speaker 1: to pay for college like that. He did it presumably

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Speaker 1: because he's a patriot and uh, and he became a

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Speaker 1: war hero, which is a really really great way and

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Speaker 1: paired with the privilege to politics. Well, I'd be interested

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Speaker 1: to know what some of our fellow conspiracy realists have

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Speaker 1: to think of I have to say about that, just

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Speaker 1: you know, joining up going officer school or what you know,

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Speaker 1: the training to be an officer immediately upon getting into

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Speaker 1: said military service, and like what that would look like

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Speaker 1: in this case. The fact that he was serving on

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Speaker 1: you know about during wartime and was able to physically

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Speaker 1: lead people to safety totally, that's that's that's up there, right. Okay,

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Speaker 1: here's the thing though, And call me a cynic if

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Speaker 1: we must, but uh, it's easy to imagine that this

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Speaker 1: was part of a longer play. He all, his family

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Speaker 1: was well established in politics. So I don't think it's

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Speaker 1: unreasonable to imagine a conversation between John and his father,

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Speaker 1: Joseph Kennedy, Sr. Where Joseph was saying, you know, one

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Speaker 1: day you gotta be president. Uh ask not what you

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Speaker 1: can do for the Navy, but what the Navy can

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Speaker 1: do for your political career. And I'll be damned if

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Speaker 1: any of Prescott Bush's kids get that before you, you know,

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Speaker 1: like baby. Clearly it certainly plays into that trajectory. But

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Speaker 1: you know, we also know some presidents that you know,

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Speaker 1: got out of military service due to uh spurious let's say,

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Speaker 1: does the conditions? Yeah, and so he's still he's still

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Speaker 1: relatively young at this time. I wouldn't make sure we

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Speaker 1: mentioned he was born in Brookline, Massachusetts, in nineteen seventeen

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Speaker 1: or May twenty nine. But whatever his aims were, and

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Speaker 1: it's difficult to ascribe motive, of course, but whatever his

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Speaker 1: aims were, if we take the patriotism at face value,

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Speaker 1: he quickly used that. He quickly leveraged that experience as

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Speaker 1: a war hero into the world of politics. First, he

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Speaker 1: was a congressman. He was repped in the Boston area

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Speaker 1: and by nineteen fifty three he was in the Senate.

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Speaker 1: This guy was very much a rising star in the

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Speaker 1: halls of power, and those folks who were already established

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Speaker 1: in the halls of power, whether they liked him, whether

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Speaker 1: they feared him, they had a very close eye on

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Speaker 1: his future ambitions. Uh. And you know, things are going

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Speaker 1: pretty well for him outside the world of politics too.

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Speaker 1: He met Jackie on Nassis a k a. Jacqueline Beauvais

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Speaker 1: b O. N. Bouvier. Oh yes, um, and and that

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Speaker 1: was the same year that he was elected to the Senate.

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Speaker 1: Soe and uh, he was dude, this guy. Sometimes we

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Speaker 1: forget we hear speeches from JF. K. He made many,

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Speaker 1: many of them over his short time in office, Uh,

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Speaker 1: as well as as a senator. But I kind of forget.

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Speaker 1: He was a Pulitzerprise winning author, which means he was

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Speaker 1: good with the word and he or he at least

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Speaker 1: had a lot of people around him who were excellent

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Speaker 1: with words to help him do that. He wrote a

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Speaker 1: nineteen fifty five book it's called Profiles Encourage And he

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Speaker 1: wrote this while he was recovering from an operation that

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Speaker 1: he had on his back. And um, this is part

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Speaker 1: of the lure of JFK that we kind of learned

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Speaker 1: more recently. I would say I learned it much more

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Speaker 1: recently with things like drunk history, which is silly to

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Speaker 1: think about, but in other places where stories of JFK's

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Speaker 1: back pain, uh, like how his back pain and his

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Speaker 1: surgery and everything kind of led to maybe some drug

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Speaker 1: use over the years, maybe a back brace that wouldn't

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Speaker 1: let him duck when the first shot missed. We'll get there,

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Speaker 1: We'll get there, but you're you're right, And we have

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Speaker 1: to point out to this a side note for any

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Speaker 1: uh current or former presidents tuning into the podcast, Uh,

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Speaker 1: be careful, folks, because presidents have a surprisingly dark history

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Speaker 1: of substance abuse and and people don't talk about it

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Speaker 1: super often. But as you as you looked, you know

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Speaker 1: a lot of early American presidents were wasted pretty frequently

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Speaker 1: on the job. And then if your life is so stressful,

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Speaker 1: you know you've got heavy medical monitoring, but you also

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Speaker 1: have to be able to seem uh fit, lucid and

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Speaker 1: capable in your many public appearances and perhaps more importantly,

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Speaker 1: in your non public appearances or conversations with foreign powers.

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Speaker 1: So sometimes uh, these individuals do get put up on drugs,

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Speaker 1: you know, on medications of one sort or another, as

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Speaker 1: messed up as it is, the appearance, as you said, Ben,

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Speaker 1: of being lucid is oftentimes more important than your actual

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Speaker 1: health as a sitting president, oh a hundred percent. And

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Speaker 1: that is a really sad thing because it's almost like

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Speaker 1: who really cares about me? You know? And no, it's

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Speaker 1: just about like how how much of a front can

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Speaker 1: you put up? You know? Like, Uh, for example, like

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Speaker 1: stutter step or something in public, and all of a sudden,

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Speaker 1: there was all this conversation around, oh, she's definitely dying.

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Speaker 1: She's clearly got some sort of like life threatening condition.

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Speaker 1: And I think a lot of that was also probably

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Speaker 1: wrapped up in the fact that she's a woman. Uh,

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Speaker 1: And the media tends to go after women in that

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Speaker 1: way more so than men. But it's the same with Biden,

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Speaker 1: I mean, tending time you catch him, like, you know,

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Speaker 1: dozing off in a meeting, it makes like front page news. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and they're I mean, there are hit pieces like that

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Speaker 1: for every president, especially now in the age of ubiquitous

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Speaker 1: media coverage. You know, you'll see like you'll see those

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Speaker 1: clips of and thinking of a more recent example, you'll

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Speaker 1: see those clips of like nine eighties peak businessman Trump, right,

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Speaker 1: and then you'll see you'll see it contrasted and usually

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Speaker 1: a short YouTube video and it's like, oh, look at

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Speaker 1: them now, you know, and regardless of your feelings you have,

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Speaker 1: being a president is super damaging to people on a

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Speaker 1: physical emotional if a soul exists on a soul full level,

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Speaker 1: but people still want the job. So now JFK has

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Speaker 1: checked all the boxes. Is he for money? Yes? Is

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Speaker 1: he from a political dynasty, Yes? Did he write a

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Speaker 1: patriotic book? Check? Is he married to a powerful socialite? Check? Uh?

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Speaker 1: Is he has he quickly progressed from Congress to the

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Speaker 1: Senate check check. So he makes a run first as

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Speaker 1: the Democratic vice president in ninety six. It doesn't work

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Speaker 1: out fast forward four years. He doesn't get a give up.

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Speaker 1: Now he is the Democratic presidential candidate in nineteen sixty.

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Speaker 1: And there's something so weird in the study of media

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Speaker 1: that plays a huge role in this. Kennedy had a

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Speaker 1: series of debates with the Republican candidate of the time,

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Speaker 1: a guy named Richard M. Nixon, who may be familiar

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Speaker 1: to some people. Through a street name Tricky Dick. So

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Speaker 1: before they were calling him tricky Dick, and they just

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Speaker 1: called him, you know, Richard at that time. Uh, millions

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Speaker 1: of people, millions tuned into this debate in some way,

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Speaker 1: and it was aired on television, it was aired on radio.

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Speaker 1: Something weird happened. People who listened on the radio thought

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Speaker 1: Nixon won the debates. They thought he made better points,

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Speaker 1: they thought he was more articulate, they thought he was

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Speaker 1: more on mission and on brand. But people who saw

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Speaker 1: it on TV thought Kennedy was the clear winner. Right.

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Speaker 1: And it's all because of body language, right, Like Nixon

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Speaker 1: looked a little sweaty and kind of disheveled and and

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Speaker 1: maybe a little you know, fidgety kind of and uh

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Speaker 1: and Kennedy it's basic dreamboat, you know, just coming off

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Speaker 1: like a champ, like looking completely calm as a cucumber. Uh,

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Speaker 1: those that those dashing good looks, great hair, I mean,

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Speaker 1: just excellent hair, hair for days, and then just kind

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Speaker 1: of this calm demeanor. Um. So that that goes to

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Speaker 1: show why, you know, TV makes a huge difference. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: at least a few people watched that televised debate and thought,

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Speaker 1: which of these guys, would I sleep with definitely, voted accordingly,

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Speaker 1: and then eventually slept with him. Yes. Yes. Shout out

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Speaker 1: to Neelie Comics for giving us the most important part

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Speaker 1: of any JFK research, which is the music video by

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Speaker 1: the Professor Brothers about JFK. Stop what you're doing, pause

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Speaker 1: this episode, truly watch that video now pull over, pull

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Speaker 1: over safely and watched that video now, uh okay, in

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Speaker 1: your back. So see we didn't lead you astray. It's

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Speaker 1: worth it. So whatever role media had to play here,

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Speaker 1: history tells us Kennedy one. He didn't win by an

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Speaker 1: overwhelming majority. He had a pretty narrow margin in the

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Speaker 1: popular vote, and at least part of that was due

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Speaker 1: to his youth, but I would advance a a bigger

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Speaker 1: part of it was due to lingering prejudice against people

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Speaker 1: of the Catholic faith. I don't think it's as popular

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Speaker 1: prevalent in the US today, but back then and for

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Speaker 1: a long time, there were there were fears motivated by

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Speaker 1: religious prejudice that caused many people to think any Catholic

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Speaker 1: in a position of authority would not be obeying the Constitution,

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Speaker 1: they would be obeying the word of the Pope. Whomever

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Speaker 1: that pope happened to be, so he overcame in that

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Speaker 1: regard a lot of prejudice to become president. And nowadays,

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Speaker 1: as so often happens with the dead, his time on

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Speaker 1: earth is romanticized. It doesn't matter if you're if you're

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Speaker 1: personally a fan of Kennedy or the administration or the

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Speaker 1: you know, like the soap operatic story of Camelot. The

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Speaker 1: truth is that, uh, partially due to the tragic way

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Speaker 1: his life ended, people tend to look with some rose

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Speaker 1: colored glasses. You know, they tend to airbrush some stuff,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean, and forget that no one's perfect.

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Speaker 1: But still it's easy to see some big wins for

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Speaker 1: his administration at the time, you know, called from war

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Speaker 1: progress in the world of civil rights. Did something that

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Speaker 1: not every president really does, which he championed the arts

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Speaker 1: despite the fact that the arts aren't inherently profitable and

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Speaker 1: unquantifiable way. Uh, and then you put out a lot

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Speaker 1: of economic programs that I think people forget about. This

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Speaker 1: put the US on a path of expansion in the

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Speaker 1: in the commercial world. It's an expansion that hadn't occurred

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Speaker 1: since World War Two. And he didn't use the catchphrase.

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Speaker 1: I wish he did, but he didn't use this catchphrase.

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Speaker 1: But he was very interested in eliminating pockets of deep poverty.

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Speaker 1: Just didn't call it a war on poverty because using

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Speaker 1: the W word was a little bit sensitive in the sixties.

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Speaker 1: M it's a call to action that was shared by

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Speaker 1: somebody who got assassinated five years later. That's true. Dr

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Speaker 1: King interesting, It's very much true. And Coentel pro never ended.

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Speaker 1: Just gonna slip that one in there. We're gonna pause

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Speaker 1: for a word from our sponsors and we'll be right back.

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Speaker 1: Because nothing happens in a vacuum. We've returned, so giving

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Speaker 1: us some highlights, rough and dirty biography, but we have

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Speaker 1: to admit the Kennedy administration was anything but perfect. In fact,

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Speaker 1: the world came the closest it has been uh to

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Speaker 1: nuclear war since World War Two during Kennedy's short tenure

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Speaker 1: as president. Yeah. Um, the Cold War absolutely reached a

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Speaker 1: crisis level During the Cuban Missile Crisis UM as it

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Speaker 1: was known, Kennedy, possibly against better judgment, allowed some trained

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Speaker 1: armed Cuban exiles to invade Cuba, which was another one

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Speaker 1: of the laundry list of plays made to attempt to

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Speaker 1: overthrow the government of Fidel Castro. We talked in the

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Speaker 1: last episode about everything from like poison, like what there's

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Speaker 1: something about a wet suit poison, wetsuit poison, wet suit,

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Speaker 1: poisoned cigar. Yeah, yes, that's a hallucinogens piped in uh

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Speaker 1: in the studio where he recorded stuff, just to discredit him,

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Speaker 1: even to make him lose his beard. That fits in

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Speaker 1: when we were just talking about, too, right, the idea

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Speaker 1: of if he came off not seeming lucid, or seeming

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Speaker 1: in some way dottery or like he didn't have his together,

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Speaker 1: that would be enough to topple him, at least in

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Speaker 1: the minds of the people. Right, Yeah, you're you're absolutely right.

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Speaker 1: And to explain a little bit about the the issue

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Speaker 1: that the Cuban exiles have, we we had to talk.

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Speaker 1: We have to talk about the revolution. A lot of

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Speaker 1: there was a ton of wealth inequality pre revolution in Cuba,

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Speaker 1: and many of the people who would go on to

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Speaker 1: be Cuban exiles and anti communist extremist felt that their

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Speaker 1: property had been stolen by the new government of Cuba.

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Speaker 1: And so to them, I mean, yeah, it had you

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Speaker 1: can call it whatever you You can call it nationalized

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Speaker 1: if you want, if that makes it sound better or

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Speaker 1: more official. But yeah, it was taken. And the idea

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Speaker 1: was that it had itself been this property had been

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Speaker 1: acquired unfairly by these families of these folks leveraging the government.

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Speaker 1: That was the position of the communist revolution in Cuba.

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Speaker 1: But these folks never gave up. How would you feel

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Speaker 1: if you thought this communist government had wrecked your life

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Speaker 1: in your future, you would want to retaliate. That's an

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Speaker 1: understandable thing. So they were all about it, uh, But

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Speaker 1: Kennedy and his administration were not on board because they

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Speaker 1: didn't want to poke a certain bear across the Atlantic,

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Speaker 1: a bear that was also dangerously close to Alaska very

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Speaker 1: much had a around and find out reputation, and they

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Speaker 1: also had nuclear weapons. So Kennedy thought it was a

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Speaker 1: bad move to mess with Castro. We can talk this down.

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Speaker 1: He's the guy at the bar saying, okay, let's not

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Speaker 1: throw hands yet, because we want to be at this

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Speaker 1: bar tomorrow. The USSR was not feeling this move against

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Speaker 1: Cuba because to them it was a vital part of

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Speaker 1: the global communist revolution and they pretty much saw it

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Speaker 1: as a client state. They felt they had hedgemony over

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Speaker 1: the country, so they said, you know what around you're

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Speaker 1: about to find out. So they sent nuclear weapons to

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Speaker 1: the island, and this is what launches the crisis so

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Speaker 1: bad that we literally still today call it the Cuban

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Speaker 1: missile crisis. Yeah, and they didn't just ship the nukes

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Speaker 1: there so that you know, Fidel and the Cuban forces

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Speaker 1: could say, hey, there are nukes here. They installed those

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Speaker 1: babies ready to rock, just off the coast of the

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Speaker 1: United States, about ninety miles nine miles away. And so

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Speaker 1: the US only learned about this because of the YouTube

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Speaker 1: spy plane, which is famously how the members of the

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Speaker 1: band YouTube met each other. They were operating that plane. Uh,

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Speaker 1: this was October of nineteen sixty two. So when Kennedy

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Speaker 1: learned about this, it was kind of at He was

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Speaker 1: at an impass. So he placed a naval black aide

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Speaker 1: around the nation of Cuba and called it a quarantine,

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Speaker 1: cutting off any Soviet access. And he said, look, not

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Speaker 1: only can you not ship more nuclear weapons here, you

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Speaker 1: need to get all of the other stuff off the island.

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Speaker 1: You have to get all the nuclear missiles that you

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Speaker 1: already put there, and the non nuclear missiles and you

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Speaker 1: have to put them back on a boat to Soviet Russia,

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Speaker 1: and you've got to destroy those missile sites you've built.

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Speaker 1: So for thirteen days, some of us in the audience

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Speaker 1: were alive for these thirteen days. For thirteen days, the

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Speaker 1: future of civilization pretty much hinged on two dudes, Nikita

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Speaker 1: Kruschev and John Kennedy. And they made two deals. Only

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Speaker 1: one was public. So Russia or the US US are said,

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Speaker 1: you know what, Okay, we'll dismantled the sites if you,

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Speaker 1: John and the United States vow not to ever, at

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Speaker 1: least in the time being, invade Cuba for any reason.

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Speaker 1: Do not invade Cuba. And again this is this is

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Speaker 1: interesting because that's the one that we knew about, right, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: So the idea is Kennedy was like fine, and then

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Speaker 1: somebody from the CIA in the back is going, no, yeah,

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Speaker 1: damn it. We have this great idea from a poison

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Speaker 1: tow ring, and we're going to give to Fidel cast Or.

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Speaker 1: We don't know if it works. You know, the man

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Speaker 1: loved his tow rings. That. Yeah, you know, everybody's got

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Speaker 1: their own inner life, right. Drew Carey has nipple piercings

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Speaker 1: I'm just saying that is true. Yeah, that's what I

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Speaker 1: tell me. That's not true. That's what I ruined. You

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Speaker 1: ruined Drew Carey for me? Bad? Wait wait wait, wait

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Speaker 1: care for me. Let's not let's not judge. What if?

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Speaker 1: What if I have a few of those? If you

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Speaker 1: what do you mean more than do you have like

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Speaker 1: a third nip situation? Or they like, really big, I'm sorry,

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Speaker 1: that's a personal question. Matt took off his head coach.

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Speaker 1: Now he's back in. They took off his shirt and

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Speaker 1: reveal his shiny China nip brands. So so um. Regardless

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Speaker 1: of their stance on nuclear weapons or nipple rings. Uh,

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Speaker 1: the leaders of the U s s R and the US,

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Speaker 1: we're trying to reach some kind of non violent agreement.

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Speaker 1: They were still very much in competition because they wanted

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Speaker 1: to be the rulers of the world. Let's talk about

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Speaker 1: that private agreement. This goes back to the idea of

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Speaker 1: posturing in a way that shows confidence, that shows lucidity,

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Speaker 1: that shows power, right, instead of weakness. Uh, the public

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Speaker 1: was sold kind of a tip for tat agreement. Right, Okay,

426
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:05,560
Speaker 1: we're not gonna invade Cuba in the back. The intelligence

427
00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:08,960
Speaker 1: guys are like, no, damn it, and then in return,

428
00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:10,840
Speaker 1: you're going to get rid of those missiles. They're just

429
00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:14,720
Speaker 1: too close to us, and we think that's dangerous. This

430
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:18,840
Speaker 1: is the same country, by the way, that has dozens

431
00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:22,480
Speaker 1: of basis encircling the border of Iran today. But anyway,

432
00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:26,159
Speaker 1: they were like, we like to do that to people,

433
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:28,679
Speaker 1: but we don't want it done to us. But the

434
00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:31,200
Speaker 1: US had to give up something else, and they didn't

435
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 1: tell the public this for twenty five years. They also

436
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:39,320
Speaker 1: agreed that they would remove their nuclear weapons from Turkey

437
00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:44,080
Speaker 1: because Russia. Russia asked a very reasonable question from their perspective,

438
00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:49,280
Speaker 1: which is like, okay, so you're telling me President Kennedy

439
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:52,440
Speaker 1: that you you don't think it's a good look. You

440
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:55,880
Speaker 1: don't like the vibe of a foreign power having nuclear

441
00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:58,560
Speaker 1: weapons really close to you. And they're like, no, absolutely not,

442
00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:03,080
Speaker 1: that's a nonstarter. They're like, cool Turkey though, bro, Turkey, Yeah,

443
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:08,960
Speaker 1: what about les here right there? Right? And the battle,

444
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:13,760
Speaker 1: that battle was over, Those days passed and the world

445
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:18,280
Speaker 1: did not descend into nuclear chaos, but the beef was

446
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:21,040
Speaker 1: still on. There's still this huge arm race because both

447
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:23,760
Speaker 1: nations see themselves not just as wanting to be the

448
00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:26,800
Speaker 1: leaders of the world, but as the rightful leaders of

449
00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:30,040
Speaker 1: the world, and they'll do anything they can legality be

450
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:35,200
Speaker 1: damned to make that so. And by thanks some part

451
00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:38,120
Speaker 1: of efforts on both sides, they're sending public signals that

452
00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:41,800
Speaker 1: they're ratcheting down the tension. This is the year when

453
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:46,280
Speaker 1: the Kremlin and the White House set up a hotline,

454
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:50,000
Speaker 1: you know, and they knew when that hotline bling, it

455
00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:54,360
Speaker 1: could only mean one thing, uh, total nuclear annihilation, yeah,

456
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:57,400
Speaker 1: or a chance to talk back from the ledge Yeah.

457
00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:01,760
Speaker 1: Well and again like how great is that though, that

458
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:07,560
Speaker 1: there could be between two superpowers, a direct line for

459
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:10,560
Speaker 1: the leaders to communicate in case tensions get too high,

460
00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:13,400
Speaker 1: Like surely it was one of those big red phones

461
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:16,120
Speaker 1: that like lights up. It has to be the only

462
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:19,760
Speaker 1: possible option. It was. Actually, this is the weirdest part,

463
00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:22,280
Speaker 1: and I thought about this pretty often. It was a

464
00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:24,760
Speaker 1: way for them to text each other. Who was a

465
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:30,040
Speaker 1: teletype machine? No way? Yes, way, Ted, Well, so now

466
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:32,000
Speaker 1: they can just slide into each other's d m s

467
00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:35,440
Speaker 1: like putin just hits up Biden, like three am. I mean,

468
00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:39,440
Speaker 1: I'm sure that happens. H w y D bro W

469
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:48,480
Speaker 1: Cold War Hotline sorry, I'm now done. It's perfect, you know, um,

470
00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:51,680
Speaker 1: it is inspiring, you know in this something we see

471
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:54,760
Speaker 1: in diplomacy, the idea that if we can get away

472
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:58,000
Speaker 1: from the court of public opinion, we the world leaders,

473
00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:01,160
Speaker 1: can work something out in a way that benefit it's everybody,

474
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:04,280
Speaker 1: everybody being defined as you and me on the phone,

475
00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:08,560
Speaker 1: so on that hotline. So that's one thing they did.

476
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:14,840
Speaker 1: And then they also Dmitri, Dmitri, I can't hear you, Dmitri,

477
00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:18,760
Speaker 1: you're breaking up. I'm sorry. I cannot think Dr Strangelove

478
00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:22,400
Speaker 1: when we talk about this exactly exactly, And I also

479
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:25,680
Speaker 1: I would love to I feel like you can learn

480
00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:29,880
Speaker 1: a lot about somebody by the way in which they

481
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:33,120
Speaker 1: choose to text, you know, and no judgment. Some people

482
00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:35,600
Speaker 1: are moji heavy, some people are not. Some people are

483
00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:39,920
Speaker 1: full sentences. Some people feel full sentences are kind of

484
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:42,800
Speaker 1: cold and overly formal. I just don't like it when

485
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:44,800
Speaker 1: you end a text with a period. I think it's

486
00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:46,800
Speaker 1: the most aggressive thing. It's like an act of war.

487
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:50,840
Speaker 1: To me. I don't care. I don't care. My sentences

488
00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:53,720
Speaker 1: will be complete when I say things in text form.

489
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:56,520
Speaker 1: What if it's just a single word followed by a period.

490
00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:59,440
Speaker 1: You don't think that's a little inherently aggressive context, I

491
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:02,320
Speaker 1: would say, it depends I've just had that beat into me.

492
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:05,760
Speaker 1: But I do text you both differently, like I, I know,

493
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:08,400
Speaker 1: I don't want to put you off Noll with a period,

494
00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:11,600
Speaker 1: and then Matt, I also don't don't want to seem

495
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:13,720
Speaker 1: like I don't want to seem like I don't care.

496
00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:17,520
Speaker 1: But what about group text? How do you how do

497
00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:20,360
Speaker 1: you how do you navigate those diplomatic waters. Then on

498
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:23,520
Speaker 1: group text, I've you guys will notice I've done without

499
00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:27,520
Speaker 1: the period unless I'm writing actual like because I text

500
00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:30,720
Speaker 1: too many things, So I'll write out a paragraph. Then

501
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:32,280
Speaker 1: at least at least I can do is get some

502
00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:35,280
Speaker 1: periods in there so it's readable. But we don't know.

503
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:39,120
Speaker 1: We don't know what these world leaders were necessarily saying

504
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:42,480
Speaker 1: on this hotline. We do know that in July of

505
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:47,040
Speaker 1: ninety three, both sides were also signatories to the Limited

506
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:52,120
Speaker 1: Nuclear Test Band Tree, which was an international agreement to

507
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:57,000
Speaker 1: step down the wild West of nuclear testing. If you

508
00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:59,240
Speaker 1: want to learn more about that, check out our episodes

509
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:02,160
Speaker 1: on things like the Marshall Islands. So at this point

510
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:05,560
Speaker 1: we have to ask, what would the world be like today.

511
00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:08,720
Speaker 1: Not if Kennedy got re elected, but what if he

512
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:11,840
Speaker 1: had just finished his term. There are tons of speculation

513
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:14,720
Speaker 1: out there, but the simple truth is this, we are

514
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:18,080
Speaker 1: never going to know. And that is because on November

515
00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:22,560
Speaker 1: twenty nine, six three, in Dallas, Texas, President John F.

516
00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:27,240
Speaker 1: Kennedy was assassinated. After an investigation, after a series of

517
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:32,600
Speaker 1: very thorough investigations, the US government concluded this assassination was

518
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:37,680
Speaker 1: carried out by one dude, Lee Harvey Oswald, acting alone,

519
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:41,280
Speaker 1: shot the President of the United States fatally in the

520
00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:45,520
Speaker 1: head with a six point five millimeter Krkano Model thirty

521
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:50,360
Speaker 1: eight rifle. That's the official conclusion through the War in Commission.

522
00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:53,680
Speaker 1: Turns out a lot of people have a problem with

523
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:57,040
Speaker 1: that conclusion. What are we talking about. We'll tell you

524
00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:08,440
Speaker 1: afterwards from our sponsor. Here's where it gets crazy. Remember again, folks,

525
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:11,440
Speaker 1: this is part one of a two part series. So

526
00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:13,280
Speaker 1: this is the part where we have to do the

527
00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:16,720
Speaker 1: official story. And we're very well aware this may irk

528
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:19,600
Speaker 1: some of our fellow listeners in the crowd today, but

529
00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:25,040
Speaker 1: we've got to establish the actual timeline, the official timeline,

530
00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:28,560
Speaker 1: the stuff that the government says happened, and the order

531
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:30,720
Speaker 1: in which they say it happened. All right, I'll take

532
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:34,760
Speaker 1: the hit, guys. In November of nineteen sixty three, Kennedy,

533
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:38,080
Speaker 1: vice President Lyndon Johnson, and their spouses embarked upon a

534
00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:42,360
Speaker 1: five city tour throughout Texas, aiming to boost Kennedy's popularity

535
00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:47,840
Speaker 1: for the next election while also uniting the Texas Democratic Party. Then,

536
00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:51,440
Speaker 1: on the morning of November, the Kennedy family arrived in

537
00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:55,320
Speaker 1: Dallas via Air Force one for from Fort Worth. The

538
00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:58,520
Speaker 1: president entered a motorcade heading for a luncheon at the

539
00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:02,560
Speaker 1: Dallas Trademark over Can I stop, just just for a second,

540
00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:04,880
Speaker 1: had a question for you guys, what's the difference between

541
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:06,959
Speaker 1: a lunch and a luncheon? I was about to ask

542
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:09,800
Speaker 1: the same thing. I think a luncheon is fancy, usually

543
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:16,280
Speaker 1: involves tiny sandwiches, isn't it, like, yeah, a ladies luncheon,

544
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:18,920
Speaker 1: you know, think about like a like a Pinnacle Club

545
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:22,279
Speaker 1: meeting or something like that, or like some I think

546
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:25,840
Speaker 1: that's right. Yep, okay, okay, sorry, sorry, Matt. That was

547
00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:28,359
Speaker 1: just that's something I didn't wanna I didn't want to

548
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:31,480
Speaker 1: research before we went on air. The same question was

549
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:34,439
Speaker 1: burning in my skull and you asked it. You asked

550
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:37,040
Speaker 1: what everyone in the audience was asking. So bless you

551
00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:40,560
Speaker 1: for it. So anyways, the Kennedy's are hanging out going

552
00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:44,359
Speaker 1: to this fancy smancy lunch at the Dallas Trademark. They're

553
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:47,600
Speaker 1: over a hundred and fifty thousand people lined up along

554
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:51,240
Speaker 1: the road as the Kennedy's head that way in their vehicle.

555
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:55,320
Speaker 1: It's a ten mile route, yes, it's a ten mile route.

556
00:34:55,400 --> 00:35:01,160
Speaker 1: And at twelve thirty in the afternoon, both President Kennedy

557
00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:04,200
Speaker 1: and the governor of Texas at the time and fellowing him,

558
00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:10,360
Speaker 1: John Connolly, are shot. They're writing in the presidential limousine,

559
00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:14,919
Speaker 1: which is open top, and Connolly is seriously wounded. For time,

560
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:16,719
Speaker 1: they don't know if he's going to make it, but

561
00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:20,040
Speaker 1: the president despite you know, no one officially announces it

562
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:22,960
Speaker 1: until later that day. But the president is clearly dead.

563
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:27,200
Speaker 1: It's not tis but a flesh wound situation. You And

564
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:30,200
Speaker 1: if there's one takeaway we got from this whole scenario

565
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:35,239
Speaker 1: is no more open top motorcades, not a thing a

566
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:40,560
Speaker 1: thing anymore in this country for presidents. So the car,

567
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:46,200
Speaker 1: the limousine instantly goes into action like within sixty seconds,

568
00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:51,320
Speaker 1: it is racing towards the nearest hospital, Parkland Memorial. Around

569
00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:56,120
Speaker 1: this time, Lee Harvey Oswald, the assassin, is making his

570
00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:59,560
Speaker 1: escape from the sixth floor of the Texas school Book

571
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:04,680
Speaker 1: Depot a tree history hinges on very very small things, folks.

572
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:12,400
Speaker 1: He almost gets caught walking downstairs. Police officer briefly stops

573
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:14,640
Speaker 1: him in the lunch room on the second floor of

574
00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:18,480
Speaker 1: the building, but he moves on without incident. By one PM,

575
00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:21,560
Speaker 1: Kennedy is at the hospital, his body is at least

576
00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:24,759
Speaker 1: he's pronounced dead, and just a few minutes after that,

577
00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:29,560
Speaker 1: police find empty rifle shells and they find a rifle

578
00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:34,359
Speaker 1: hidden on the sixth floor of the Texas school Book Depository.

579
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:38,720
Speaker 1: Later investigations will show that was definitely oz Walt's rifle.

580
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:44,120
Speaker 1: He definitely did buy it. By one PM, he is arrested.

581
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:48,040
Speaker 1: His plan for a getaway did not go well. By

582
00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:52,279
Speaker 1: the next day, in the wee hours of November a

583
00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:55,200
Speaker 1: m he is officially charged with the murder of the

584
00:36:55,239 --> 00:37:00,200
Speaker 1: President of the United States. How did that go? Will

585
00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:04,280
Speaker 1: never know? He never makes it to trial. On November

586
00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:09,000
Speaker 1: he too will be assassinated by a very interesting guy

587
00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:12,799
Speaker 1: named Jack Ruby. Great name Uh. And then the wake

588
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:17,239
Speaker 1: of that murder, Lennon Johnson UM sought to kind of

589
00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:20,799
Speaker 1: keep the peace maintained, some semblance of order. UM. He

590
00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:25,000
Speaker 1: knew that this was on everyone's television, everyone's radio, and

591
00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:27,800
Speaker 1: he knew that not everyone in the audience was a

592
00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:32,719
Speaker 1: particularly big fan of his UM considering, so he he

593
00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:36,560
Speaker 1: knew he needed to tread lightly UM, and an investigation commenced. UM.

594
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:40,799
Speaker 1: Even as these rumors began to spread from the onset UM,

595
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:46,640
Speaker 1: some genuine speculation, uh, some likely manufactured disinformation coming out

596
00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:49,160
Speaker 1: of Russia. Uh. You know they're looking at this as

597
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:54,080
Speaker 1: an opportunity to just so discontent, right, UM, to divide,

598
00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:56,919
Speaker 1: which is attack that we know they've employed multiple times

599
00:37:56,920 --> 00:38:01,280
Speaker 1: throughout history against the United States, and US has against

600
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:07,000
Speaker 1: so many other count This is a beautiful song we

601
00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:10,520
Speaker 1: are singing, But that's for us. It's not for you.

602
00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:17,040
Speaker 1: He always for us. UM. But in the end, the

603
00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:22,880
Speaker 1: warrant commissioned UM in an eight hundred eight page report. UM. Surprising,

604
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:26,520
Speaker 1: no conspiracy theories have been made around that number. Oh

605
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:30,120
Speaker 1: it's to get rid of the trees, Okay, I got it. Boom. UM.

606
00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:34,799
Speaker 1: They made this public on September nine, four it concluded

607
00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:38,160
Speaker 1: that Kennedy was in fact assassinated by Lee Harvey Oswald,

608
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:42,640
Speaker 1: and that Oswald had acted alone without any co conspirators,

609
00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:45,719
Speaker 1: and also that there was nobody else involved, like as

610
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:52,520
Speaker 1: far as a government handler or agency or you know, military. Sure,

611
00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:56,960
Speaker 1: no big business interest, no organized crime, no ring of

612
00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:01,640
Speaker 1: sleeper agent spies. One dude, one gun and a few

613
00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:06,319
Speaker 1: bullets had laid democracy low. This remains one of the

614
00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:11,120
Speaker 1: most controversial investigations in the entirety of US history, and

615
00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:15,799
Speaker 1: as we record today, conspiracy theories about this murder proliferate.

616
00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:19,239
Speaker 1: It is, in fact, one of the most widely accepted

617
00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:23,680
Speaker 1: conspiracy theories in American culture. And and there are people again,

618
00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:26,239
Speaker 1: it's a political people on either side of the that,

619
00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:31,720
Speaker 1: you know, frankly manufactured divide people of every kind of creed,

620
00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:36,160
Speaker 1: every kind of um demographic slice you could imagine, people

621
00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:42,280
Speaker 1: who consider themselves very skeptical about every other thing might say, well, okay,

622
00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:46,000
Speaker 1: the Kennedy thing though, the Kennedy thing, right, And everybody

623
00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:50,080
Speaker 1: else in the room looks around and they know which one. Yeah,

624
00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:54,160
Speaker 1: They're like, well, which Robert, which one we're talking? Are

625
00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:57,640
Speaker 1: we talking? Chap aquittic? Because that happened too. I mean, anyway,

626
00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:03,200
Speaker 1: the the thing is that there's a mistrust of the

627
00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:06,719
Speaker 1: government very common in US culture. You could say it's

628
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:09,480
Speaker 1: American as apple pie, which is misleading because apples are

629
00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:12,719
Speaker 1: from Kazakhstan. But whatever. Uh, the idea is that it

630
00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:17,800
Speaker 1: is some it is somehow both the responsibility and the

631
00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:22,000
Speaker 1: right of people living in the US to question the

632
00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:25,319
Speaker 1: decisions of those in power. And because parts of that

633
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:30,080
Speaker 1: investigation remained classified today, that lack of transparency, coupled with

634
00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:34,320
Speaker 1: that ingrained lack of trust, combined to make just the

635
00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:40,600
Speaker 1: perfect soil for speculation. It's like in twenty seventeen, about

636
00:40:40,719 --> 00:40:45,360
Speaker 1: fifty nine percent of Hillary Clinton's supporters believed in a

637
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:49,880
Speaker 1: conspiracy surrounding the jfk assassination, and at the same time,

638
00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:54,080
Speaker 1: about sixty one of Donald trumps supporters were on the

639
00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:59,720
Speaker 1: same page. Finally, finally we found the one thing people

640
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:02,680
Speaker 1: of political stripes can agree on. Why is it that

641
00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:05,319
Speaker 1: up in the debate? How come no one talks about that?

642
00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:09,080
Speaker 1: They don't answer my letters? But I mean, that would

643
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:13,640
Speaker 1: be pretty great on the stage the next presidential debate,

644
00:41:13,719 --> 00:41:17,480
Speaker 1: Just what's your take on the jfk assassination? And then

645
00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:20,399
Speaker 1: they connect so hard and everybody's just feeling each other

646
00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:23,280
Speaker 1: so much on stage that we all just get along.

647
00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:27,080
Speaker 1: And they decided to co president. They decided to go, yeah,

648
00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:30,280
Speaker 1: I'm just I pictory, like, uh, what is it? Anderson

649
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:34,440
Speaker 1: Cooper moving from some question like one of those vaguely

650
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:37,840
Speaker 1: worded questions about you know, freedom, and then just going

651
00:41:38,040 --> 00:41:45,440
Speaker 1: all right, JFK, just leaving it there. Maybe they have

652
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:48,120
Speaker 1: to go Jeopardy style and phrase it as a phrase.

653
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:50,400
Speaker 1: Their answer is a question to be careful, you know.

654
00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:56,680
Speaker 1: But but if they if that ever happened, which spoiler, folks,

655
00:41:56,719 --> 00:41:59,040
Speaker 1: that's never going to happen. You're not going to get

656
00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:02,600
Speaker 1: a presidential debate where they talk about that. Uh maybe

657
00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:05,200
Speaker 1: because they don't want to get shot. But if that

658
00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:08,680
Speaker 1: ever happened, you would hear some of the most prevalent

659
00:42:08,719 --> 00:42:13,239
Speaker 1: conspiracy theories brought up in the media. And they don't

660
00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:15,600
Speaker 1: all agree. At times they contradict, but they have a

661
00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:19,080
Speaker 1: couple of commonalities, and we can group them into just

662
00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:23,640
Speaker 1: a few categories. You know, it's like just a handful

663
00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:27,120
Speaker 1: of the most popular ones. Um, this one's for you know,

664
00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:30,000
Speaker 1: you know, Sopranos style. What if it was the mafia?

665
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:34,880
Speaker 1: I guess that is me. I'm the Residents Sopranos. Not Yeah,

666
00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:36,719
Speaker 1: no one ever expects them off and that's not true.

667
00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:40,120
Speaker 1: They usually do do things pretty brashly. Um, doesn't feel

668
00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:42,799
Speaker 1: like this one has too much sand, right? Well, the

669
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:45,480
Speaker 1: whole I mean, I don't know. I haven't seen a

670
00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:47,040
Speaker 1: whole hell of a lot of chatter about it. What

671
00:42:47,080 --> 00:42:49,759
Speaker 1: do you guys know? There are some weirdness in Jack

672
00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:54,120
Speaker 1: Ruby's connections. I don't know. Man with the Kamsters, right,

673
00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:57,200
Speaker 1: isn't there a connection with like a union and I'm

674
00:42:57,239 --> 00:43:01,319
Speaker 1: thinking of Jimmy Hoffa. Yeah it was dirty, but there

675
00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:06,839
Speaker 1: were Um. I have some personal nitpicks with the mafia theory, uh.

676
00:43:06,920 --> 00:43:09,000
Speaker 1: The chief of those and we'll talk about this born

677
00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:12,560
Speaker 1: part two, the chief of which is that it seems

678
00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:16,480
Speaker 1: unlikely for the mafia to be involved with an operation

679
00:43:16,600 --> 00:43:20,520
Speaker 1: of that magnitude and that risk unless there was a

680
00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:24,160
Speaker 1: clear benefit at the end, and would have to be

681
00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:27,480
Speaker 1: a significant benefit, whether it's cash or whether it's immunity

682
00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:30,080
Speaker 1: from something else. What I'm saying is like the mafia

683
00:43:30,239 --> 00:43:34,080
Speaker 1: participating in something the mafia being asked to help, maybe,

684
00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:37,319
Speaker 1: but the Mafia just deciding to do it on their

685
00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:40,280
Speaker 1: own some crime family that seems a little tough to swallow.

686
00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:42,560
Speaker 1: You have to imagine it would be a business decision

687
00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:46,319
Speaker 1: of some sort, exactly right, because what you know, you

688
00:43:46,360 --> 00:43:51,160
Speaker 1: can call these outfits crime families, but they're really business enterprises.

689
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:56,200
Speaker 1: You know, mafias are a mom and pop business family business.

690
00:43:56,360 --> 00:43:59,239
Speaker 1: Um yeah, Jimmy Hoffa, right, I mean that that was

691
00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:02,200
Speaker 1: who was Purport did to have ordered the assassination or

692
00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:05,239
Speaker 1: been complicit in it. And he was obviously a very

693
00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:09,400
Speaker 1: corrupt Teamsters union leader who had mob ties and you know,

694
00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:12,359
Speaker 1: don't mess with teamsters in general, just stay on their

695
00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:15,759
Speaker 1: good side. That's what everybody in production tells me. Uh.

696
00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:20,680
Speaker 1: The other idea, Castro, fed up with the hilarious attempts

697
00:44:21,560 --> 00:44:24,080
Speaker 1: on his life, had decided he would show them how

698
00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:29,759
Speaker 1: it was done, and he ordered the death of John F. Kennedy.

699
00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:33,239
Speaker 1: Or was it the c i A and then vice

700
00:44:33,320 --> 00:44:36,680
Speaker 1: president Lyndon Johnson or were they both working together or

701
00:44:36,680 --> 00:44:39,200
Speaker 1: were they working with even more people? Did they all

702
00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:44,120
Speaker 1: vultron up, assemble their avengers, assemble their assassination avengers and

703
00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:47,040
Speaker 1: kill Kennedy? And then, you know, then go a little

704
00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:51,600
Speaker 1: further out, you'll see things like a shadow government, deeply

705
00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:56,879
Speaker 1: embedded cabal, the illuminati, um something like that killed Kennedy,

706
00:44:57,000 --> 00:45:01,880
Speaker 1: or even the John Birch Society killed Kennedy, or the

707
00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:09,279
Speaker 1: president somehow never actually died. So that's just hold that

708
00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:11,680
Speaker 1: one in your mind for the rest of this series.

709
00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:16,200
Speaker 1: But there's this fascinating deep rabbit hole of conjecture. The

710
00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:20,640
Speaker 1: theories often contradict one another on the most basic of assumptions,

711
00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:26,160
Speaker 1: but they all have one unanimous commonality. They all claim

712
00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:30,000
Speaker 1: that Lee Harvey Oswald did not act alone. Again, over

713
00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:34,240
Speaker 1: half of the people in the US believe some version

714
00:45:34,480 --> 00:45:39,000
Speaker 1: of this, and since nineteen these arguments have never quite

715
00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:40,880
Speaker 1: gone away. Oh shout out to the other one, the

716
00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:44,839
Speaker 1: incompetence conspiracy, the idea that with the best of intentions,

717
00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:47,600
Speaker 1: a member of the Secret Service fired the fatal shot

718
00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:52,920
Speaker 1: just for a fumble, speculation this individual was hungover, etcetera.

719
00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:56,120
Speaker 1: But that hasn't been proven. That's just one of the

720
00:45:56,160 --> 00:45:59,880
Speaker 1: other popular ones we have to mention. And you know,

721
00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:03,040
Speaker 1: the more I think about it, I think the probably

722
00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:06,360
Speaker 1: the majority of people who don't buy this official story

723
00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:09,280
Speaker 1: from the Warren Commission, they don't think their conspiracy theorists.

724
00:46:09,320 --> 00:46:12,480
Speaker 1: They just think there's something really off about the story,

725
00:46:12,640 --> 00:46:15,120
Speaker 1: and whether or not you agree, it's easy to understand

726
00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:18,480
Speaker 1: that perspective. And that's because for decades, from more than

727
00:46:18,560 --> 00:46:21,759
Speaker 1: half a century, Uncle Sam has kept information about this

728
00:46:21,840 --> 00:46:26,880
Speaker 1: murder from the public, and over the years some emerging facts,

729
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:30,400
Speaker 1: things that did come out or did get declassified, like

730
00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:33,520
Speaker 1: the story behind the Cuban missile crisis, have called some

731
00:46:33,560 --> 00:46:37,880
Speaker 1: of these initial statements into question. There no matter, like

732
00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:41,520
Speaker 1: if you accept the official narrative, there's still no arguing

733
00:46:41,560 --> 00:46:44,239
Speaker 1: that there are a lot of weird discrepancies about this one.

734
00:46:44,680 --> 00:46:47,440
Speaker 1: There's a lot of muddy stuff here. Yeah, you can

735
00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:51,920
Speaker 1: look to a person named Dr T. Jeremy gunn Well

736
00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:55,359
Speaker 1: who actually worked on the assassination records review board. This

737
00:46:55,480 --> 00:46:59,080
Speaker 1: was this review board was established. This is the one

738
00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:01,920
Speaker 1: we mentioned or leader at the top of this uh

739
00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:05,200
Speaker 1: this episode. And by the way, this is right after

740
00:47:05,560 --> 00:47:08,839
Speaker 1: JFK was created by Oliver Stone. That's one of the

741
00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:13,840
Speaker 1: most well known stories about the assassination and about JFK.

742
00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:19,520
Speaker 1: Zapp Bruder film. Back to the left, Back to the left.

743
00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:23,920
Speaker 1: So this Dr T. Jeremy gunn Fellow was very surprised,

744
00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:26,799
Speaker 1: as he was, you know, looking through these records to

745
00:47:26,840 --> 00:47:30,040
Speaker 1: find that the medical evidence that was available from the

746
00:47:30,080 --> 00:47:34,640
Speaker 1: assassination of JFK's actual body was not up to snuff.

747
00:47:34,640 --> 00:47:37,759
Speaker 1: It wasn't what like, there wasn't enough information, There wasn't

748
00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:41,960
Speaker 1: accurate enough. It's just it wasn't up to the expectations

749
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:44,959
Speaker 1: that you would imagine the medical records of an assassinated

750
00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:49,839
Speaker 1: president would be. Yeah. Yeah, he gun learned that there

751
00:47:49,920 --> 00:47:53,640
Speaker 1: was a deposition with one of the three doctors who

752
00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:58,000
Speaker 1: performed the autopsy on Kennedy's corpse, and this doctor, Dr

753
00:47:58,120 --> 00:48:05,040
Speaker 1: James Joseph Humes said, oh, yeah, we skipped some steps

754
00:48:05,040 --> 00:48:09,440
Speaker 1: in the autopsy, Like, wasn't my best autopsy. I don't know.

755
00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:12,480
Speaker 1: We but yeah, that we know was the president. But

756
00:48:12,520 --> 00:48:14,600
Speaker 1: we we skipped some stuff. You know, we're in a hurry.

757
00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:17,560
Speaker 1: And then it turns out that he had also made

758
00:48:17,640 --> 00:48:23,040
Speaker 1: a copy of the original autopsy paperwork, this doctor Humes, uh,

759
00:48:23,040 --> 00:48:26,239
Speaker 1: and he had destroyed the original. When asked why he

760
00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:29,600
Speaker 1: destroyed the original, he said he did it because he

761
00:48:29,640 --> 00:48:33,319
Speaker 1: saw I have bloodstains, so he made his made his

762
00:48:33,320 --> 00:48:37,440
Speaker 1: own thing, and because it's not an important original document

763
00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:39,920
Speaker 1: at all. Well, you know, on the other side of it,

764
00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:44,279
Speaker 1: Matt maybe he wanted literally a clean copy. I don't know.

765
00:48:44,400 --> 00:48:46,239
Speaker 1: I just feel like at that point you shouldn't be

766
00:48:46,320 --> 00:48:49,600
Speaker 1: messing with things anymore than they're already messed with. What

767
00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:52,239
Speaker 1: if he just kept it in a box in his

768
00:48:52,320 --> 00:48:54,759
Speaker 1: house for the rest of his life. Oh god, that

769
00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:57,759
Speaker 1: is a classic human move. I could so see that,

770
00:48:58,040 --> 00:49:01,080
Speaker 1: you know. But uh, if he did, he didn't come

771
00:49:01,160 --> 00:49:05,360
Speaker 1: forward during his lifetime to say, hey, here's the original.

772
00:49:05,600 --> 00:49:08,120
Speaker 1: He did seem to at least believe that he had

773
00:49:08,160 --> 00:49:12,320
Speaker 1: destroyed it. Uh t. Jeremy Gunn finds some other discrepancies.

774
00:49:12,680 --> 00:49:15,279
Speaker 1: He says, there are serious problems with the forensic and

775
00:49:15,320 --> 00:49:18,759
Speaker 1: ballistic evidence. This is not an armchair investigator, you know,

776
00:49:18,840 --> 00:49:22,840
Speaker 1: as as you established, Matt, this was literally this guy's job.

777
00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:29,719
Speaker 1: He also found that someone somehow had gone into the

778
00:49:29,800 --> 00:49:35,800
Speaker 1: National Archives and taken the official photos of Kennedy's corpse

779
00:49:35,880 --> 00:49:40,520
Speaker 1: post assassination. Uh. Whatever photos are there now do not appear,

780
00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:43,680
Speaker 1: in Gun's opinion, to be the original photos. So why

781
00:49:43,719 --> 00:49:46,839
Speaker 1: would you switch those out? What's I mean? Why what's

782
00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:49,520
Speaker 1: the point? And I guess in the auction that you

783
00:49:49,600 --> 00:49:53,760
Speaker 1: were great Greek Greek grandchildren will have one day or

784
00:49:53,920 --> 00:49:57,239
Speaker 1: as the as the more conspiratorial would argue, Uh, the

785
00:49:57,440 --> 00:50:01,040
Speaker 1: photographs show wounds that do not fit the official narrative,

786
00:50:02,480 --> 00:50:07,440
Speaker 1: and so there's a second factor here. The state secrecy

787
00:50:07,640 --> 00:50:11,560
Speaker 1: is definitely complicating the search for the truth, and this

788
00:50:11,640 --> 00:50:16,520
Speaker 1: leads to conspiracies about conspiracies. You'll find so many people

789
00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:18,719
Speaker 1: I used to believe this as well. You'll find so

790
00:50:18,760 --> 00:50:23,480
Speaker 1: many people claiming the CIA popularized the term conspiracy theory

791
00:50:23,520 --> 00:50:26,839
Speaker 1: in nine seven. You'll find some people claiming they invented

792
00:50:27,400 --> 00:50:30,239
Speaker 1: this term and weaponized it in the wake of the

793
00:50:30,320 --> 00:50:36,080
Speaker 1: jfk assassination. Um, they didn't invent it. Government agencies and

794
00:50:36,160 --> 00:50:39,280
Speaker 1: this is not a ding. Government agencies are not often

795
00:50:40,719 --> 00:50:44,720
Speaker 1: creative in that regard. They use well established means because

796
00:50:44,800 --> 00:50:46,960
Speaker 1: you want to stick with what works. But what the

797
00:50:47,000 --> 00:50:49,960
Speaker 1: CIA did do and what should scare you if you

798
00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:53,520
Speaker 1: were in the audience today, is exert their control over

799
00:50:53,640 --> 00:50:56,800
Speaker 1: domestic media. Not a little fringe sites, not a little

800
00:50:57,239 --> 00:51:00,719
Speaker 1: front websites or anything like that. No, no, no, no,

801
00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:03,680
Speaker 1: the papers of note like they wrote to contacts in

802
00:51:03,680 --> 00:51:07,520
Speaker 1: the New York Times of the Chicago Tribune and Uh.

803
00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:12,719
Speaker 1: The most famous of these is a memo called concerning

804
00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:15,719
Speaker 1: criticism of the War and report came out after the

805
00:51:15,719 --> 00:51:18,960
Speaker 1: war in commission, and in there, if you actually read

806
00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:22,200
Speaker 1: the thing, in the third paragraph, the CIA does talk

807
00:51:22,280 --> 00:51:25,200
Speaker 1: about conspiracy theories. It's the only time it occurs in

808
00:51:25,239 --> 00:51:29,600
Speaker 1: the document. They say, conspiracy theories have frequently thrown suspicion

809
00:51:29,800 --> 00:51:34,239
Speaker 1: on our organization. Oh how wounded? Uh? For example by

810
00:51:34,320 --> 00:51:38,239
Speaker 1: falsely alleging that Lee Harvey Oswald worked for us. And

811
00:51:38,280 --> 00:51:41,319
Speaker 1: then they spend a lot of ink crapping on Lee

812
00:51:41,400 --> 00:51:45,719
Speaker 1: Harvey Oswald, which admittedly isn't hard. Uh. They say, you know,

813
00:51:45,800 --> 00:51:49,520
Speaker 1: he's super unstable. Nobody, let alone the c I, A

814
00:51:49,640 --> 00:51:52,440
Speaker 1: nobody in their right mind would be dumb enough to

815
00:51:52,560 --> 00:51:56,640
Speaker 1: use such an unreliable dude in an operation of this scope, Like,

816
00:51:56,719 --> 00:52:00,600
Speaker 1: come on, we don't play it. Ket It's it's like

817
00:52:00,680 --> 00:52:05,640
Speaker 1: all but saying like it doesn't say this, But the

818
00:52:05,640 --> 00:52:11,160
Speaker 1: implication is, like, we know enough about assassinating world leaders

819
00:52:11,880 --> 00:52:14,239
Speaker 1: that we have a pretty good idea of who not

820
00:52:14,320 --> 00:52:17,600
Speaker 1: to pick, and we would not pick this suite. Uh.

821
00:52:17,640 --> 00:52:20,239
Speaker 1: But the use of the phrase is really casual, the

822
00:52:20,280 --> 00:52:23,760
Speaker 1: way they use the phrase conspiracy theory. It's because before

823
00:52:23,920 --> 00:52:27,239
Speaker 1: this moment in time, that wasn't a pejorative. It was

824
00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:31,279
Speaker 1: like a thing people just kind of assumed happened. And

825
00:52:32,320 --> 00:52:36,360
Speaker 1: mainly this is meant. This memo is meant to give

826
00:52:37,400 --> 00:52:42,239
Speaker 1: people in media arguments against those rumors. And like you

827
00:52:42,320 --> 00:52:46,160
Speaker 1: pointed out earlier, Nold, some of those rumors were it's

828
00:52:46,239 --> 00:52:49,359
Speaker 1: highly likely that they were being spread on purpose by

829
00:52:49,480 --> 00:52:54,279
Speaker 1: foreign propaganda agencies or foreign propaganda operations. So that's what

830
00:52:54,320 --> 00:52:56,920
Speaker 1: they're fighting against. That is what they're funny, I guess,

831
00:52:56,920 --> 00:52:59,240
Speaker 1: but we have to remember we've discussed this in the past.

832
00:52:59,760 --> 00:53:05,560
Speaker 1: This CIA would plant an operative within a large news organization.

833
00:53:05,840 --> 00:53:07,799
Speaker 1: They did that, and that's what we're that's what we're

834
00:53:07,840 --> 00:53:11,200
Speaker 1: referring to here. We're saying like they'd reach out to

835
00:53:11,239 --> 00:53:18,120
Speaker 1: their people basically to give these directives. Uh, talking about

836
00:53:18,160 --> 00:53:23,360
Speaker 1: propaganda happening still happening today. I mean, even with that

837
00:53:23,440 --> 00:53:26,200
Speaker 1: little bit of myth busting, I think you're right, Matt,

838
00:53:26,239 --> 00:53:28,720
Speaker 1: that is the scariest part. No one in the public

839
00:53:28,800 --> 00:53:31,480
Speaker 1: knew about this memo, by the way, until the New

840
00:53:31,560 --> 00:53:35,200
Speaker 1: York Times years later, was able to get it through

841
00:53:35,200 --> 00:53:38,040
Speaker 1: a FAY or request, a Freedom of Information Act request.

842
00:53:38,400 --> 00:53:40,759
Speaker 1: That's how you get the pages with the black highlighter.

843
00:53:41,000 --> 00:53:42,640
Speaker 1: If you have a lot of tile in your hands.

844
00:53:43,320 --> 00:53:46,759
Speaker 1: Uh So, now this has led the public and the

845
00:53:46,800 --> 00:53:50,399
Speaker 1: government into a strange song and dance routine. I don't

846
00:53:50,400 --> 00:53:52,480
Speaker 1: know if we talked about it on air, but Disney

847
00:53:52,520 --> 00:53:54,680
Speaker 1: has been doing this clever thing for a very long

848
00:53:54,760 --> 00:53:58,680
Speaker 1: time where they repeatedly pushed back the rules of copyright

849
00:53:59,400 --> 00:54:02,560
Speaker 1: right the stat Teute of Limitations on copyright law, so

850
00:54:02,600 --> 00:54:07,200
Speaker 1: that they can retain um sole ownership of the there

851
00:54:07,200 --> 00:54:11,400
Speaker 1: are many many properties. Uh. In a in a weird way,

852
00:54:12,160 --> 00:54:15,680
Speaker 1: some faction of the U. S. Government or some group

853
00:54:15,719 --> 00:54:20,360
Speaker 1: of people seems hell bent on pushing back that scheduled

854
00:54:20,440 --> 00:54:24,720
Speaker 1: declassification of these JFK files that are still secret today.

855
00:54:24,760 --> 00:54:27,359
Speaker 1: It does not matter who the president is. It does

856
00:54:27,400 --> 00:54:30,040
Speaker 1: not matter which of the two political parties. It doesn't

857
00:54:30,080 --> 00:54:32,239
Speaker 1: You know what, if there's ever like a if the

858
00:54:32,320 --> 00:54:34,359
Speaker 1: Green Party was in charge, you know what I mean,

859
00:54:34,440 --> 00:54:37,319
Speaker 1: if like a libertarian party was in charge, this would

860
00:54:37,360 --> 00:54:41,839
Speaker 1: probably still be the same situation because public outcry does

861
00:54:41,880 --> 00:54:46,239
Speaker 1: not matter. It does not matter. You can't elect the

862
00:54:46,320 --> 00:54:50,280
Speaker 1: head of the c I A well, not while they're

863
00:54:50,360 --> 00:54:53,200
Speaker 1: at that job. They have to they have to have

864
00:54:53,280 --> 00:54:57,600
Speaker 1: moved on. But uh, yeah, we folks have probably noticed

865
00:54:57,640 --> 00:55:00,000
Speaker 1: in a recent example, if you tune into our Strange

866
00:55:00,160 --> 00:55:04,720
Speaker 1: News segments. We talked about the Biden administration the most

867
00:55:05,200 --> 00:55:10,960
Speaker 1: recent decision to keep those still secret files secret, and

868
00:55:11,040 --> 00:55:14,320
Speaker 1: they said they were just following the directives of National Archives.

869
00:55:14,680 --> 00:55:19,239
Speaker 1: And they gave two reasons. One feels actually, i'll say it,

870
00:55:19,280 --> 00:55:22,799
Speaker 1: one feels pretty solid and the other one is pretty spooky.

871
00:55:22,920 --> 00:55:25,440
Speaker 1: That's just my opinion. Well, yeah, the first one, they

872
00:55:25,520 --> 00:55:30,440
Speaker 1: just said, uh, the coronavirus in COVID nineteen, all of

873
00:55:30,480 --> 00:55:32,399
Speaker 1: the things that we have to do has slowed down

874
00:55:32,400 --> 00:55:36,040
Speaker 1: our process a lot, so we we need more time.

875
00:55:36,360 --> 00:55:40,560
Speaker 1: And that's that's makes sense, right, Yeah, supply chain. You know,

876
00:55:40,600 --> 00:55:44,839
Speaker 1: they can't get the markers. Everything's been held up. It's

877
00:55:44,840 --> 00:55:47,080
Speaker 1: like trying to get a good black highlighter now is

878
00:55:47,080 --> 00:55:50,319
Speaker 1: like trying to get a PS five. Yeah. Man, uh,

879
00:55:50,600 --> 00:55:53,640
Speaker 1: it's so hard over here in the archives. But there's

880
00:55:53,680 --> 00:55:56,880
Speaker 1: this other phrase that we mentioned in that Strange News

881
00:55:56,880 --> 00:56:01,320
Speaker 1: episode that is, to my mind, the domino that sends

882
00:56:01,360 --> 00:56:05,000
Speaker 1: me down a rabbit hole. Yes, uh, the phrase, the

883
00:56:05,160 --> 00:56:11,920
Speaker 1: very vague phrase identifiable harm whatever that means. Um, So,

884
00:56:12,480 --> 00:56:17,400
Speaker 1: why why the need for this, you know, persistent secrecy?

885
00:56:17,680 --> 00:56:20,400
Speaker 1: What would happen if all of these documents, assuming they

886
00:56:20,440 --> 00:56:24,480
Speaker 1: haven't been like Shredded were released. We talked about that

887
00:56:24,520 --> 00:56:26,520
Speaker 1: in the previous episode, right, I mean, my whole thing

888
00:56:26,600 --> 00:56:29,480
Speaker 1: is like, they're not going to release it. They're not

889
00:56:29,640 --> 00:56:32,200
Speaker 1: if there's anything in there, they're not gonna they they're

890
00:56:32,239 --> 00:56:33,719
Speaker 1: not gonna tell you. They're not gonna let us know.

891
00:56:33,840 --> 00:56:38,160
Speaker 1: I just don't believe that it is in the capacity

892
00:56:38,200 --> 00:56:41,040
Speaker 1: of the government to a ever admit they were wrong

893
00:56:41,400 --> 00:56:44,839
Speaker 1: and be released anything that would shed any light on

894
00:56:45,000 --> 00:56:48,040
Speaker 1: any secret nonsense that they've been up to. And then Ben,

895
00:56:48,080 --> 00:56:49,680
Speaker 1: you made the pointer. I think it was both of

896
00:56:49,680 --> 00:56:53,279
Speaker 1: you that there are branches of the government that are like,

897
00:56:53,400 --> 00:56:56,360
Speaker 1: there's there's no crossover. There are all these siloed branches,

898
00:56:56,560 --> 00:56:59,839
Speaker 1: so they might not even all know what's in there. Right. Oh, yeah,

899
00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:03,480
Speaker 1: for sure, that's definitely true. Also a side note, my

900
00:57:03,640 --> 00:57:08,239
Speaker 1: new favorite excuse not to go to things is identifiable harm,

901
00:57:08,280 --> 00:57:11,440
Speaker 1: Like if I can just use them, sorry, I can't

902
00:57:11,680 --> 00:57:14,520
Speaker 1: make hap and I have become weird. I've become weird.

903
00:57:14,560 --> 00:57:19,479
Speaker 1: I'm careful with that one. I've become strange. I don't

904
00:57:19,520 --> 00:57:23,240
Speaker 1: want to I I use I have become strange, and uh,

905
00:57:23,400 --> 00:57:26,240
Speaker 1: you got it. It's like saffron or sesame oil. A

906
00:57:26,280 --> 00:57:28,800
Speaker 1: little bit of that goes a long way. So is

907
00:57:28,840 --> 00:57:32,240
Speaker 1: the concept that if you were present, you may or

908
00:57:32,360 --> 00:57:36,440
Speaker 1: may not cause unidentifiable harm and that is just too

909
00:57:36,520 --> 00:57:39,520
Speaker 1: much of a risk to take. Or is that it

910
00:57:41,400 --> 00:57:45,800
Speaker 1: isn't that the event itself could cause unidentifiable harm to you?

911
00:57:46,120 --> 00:57:50,200
Speaker 1: No comments. We can't. We can't have people learning about

912
00:57:50,240 --> 00:57:56,320
Speaker 1: our collection methods and tactics. Got it. That's it? Um, yeah,

913
00:57:56,360 --> 00:57:58,640
Speaker 1: I think I'll stick with that. I have become strange maybe,

914
00:57:59,240 --> 00:58:03,560
Speaker 1: or we could just say COVID. So but to your question, well,

915
00:58:03,560 --> 00:58:06,840
Speaker 1: it's a good question, Um, what would happen It's not

916
00:58:06,920 --> 00:58:09,960
Speaker 1: going to but just hypothetically, what would happen if all

917
00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:12,160
Speaker 1: of this stuff was released, all the stuff that hadn't

918
00:58:12,200 --> 00:58:14,880
Speaker 1: been destroyed was released. It's really hard to say because

919
00:58:14,920 --> 00:58:17,680
Speaker 1: it's a black box. We don't know what's in there.

920
00:58:18,360 --> 00:58:21,360
Speaker 1: And if you are, if you do have visibility on

921
00:58:21,360 --> 00:58:25,280
Speaker 1: this and you are listening, um, you probably can't right

922
00:58:25,360 --> 00:58:27,760
Speaker 1: to us. You can't tell us what's in there. You'll

923
00:58:27,760 --> 00:58:30,280
Speaker 1: be under the jail. While you'll be under the prison,

924
00:58:30,480 --> 00:58:33,439
Speaker 1: you'll be under something it might be six ft of dirt.

925
00:58:34,200 --> 00:58:38,320
Speaker 1: But while you're you could say that the classifying all

926
00:58:38,320 --> 00:58:41,760
Speaker 1: of this would be a big step toward dispelling some

927
00:58:41,920 --> 00:58:45,800
Speaker 1: of the wild wilder claims. But it's I don't know.

928
00:58:45,840 --> 00:58:48,840
Speaker 1: I think it's probable that even if everything was released,

929
00:58:49,000 --> 00:58:52,439
Speaker 1: it wouldn't stop the tide of speculation because of one

930
00:58:52,680 --> 00:58:57,800
Speaker 1: profoundly disturbing an arguable fact. And it is true, the

931
00:58:57,920 --> 00:59:02,800
Speaker 1: US itself has assassin aided people, and like many other countries,

932
00:59:03,040 --> 00:59:06,720
Speaker 1: the US likely will assassinate more people in the future

933
00:59:06,920 --> 00:59:12,080
Speaker 1: if it deems those actions appropriate for some greater good. So,

934
00:59:12,240 --> 00:59:14,920
Speaker 1: I mean parts of the government moving dark by design,

935
00:59:15,480 --> 00:59:19,800
Speaker 1: So declassifying these documents might tell you know, foreign adversaries

936
00:59:19,960 --> 00:59:23,480
Speaker 1: or the public too much about how the sausage gets made.

937
00:59:24,880 --> 00:59:29,040
Speaker 1: The thing is, however, you personally think about what happened

938
00:59:29,120 --> 00:59:32,800
Speaker 1: that day in November in Dallas, Texas. The chilling fact

939
00:59:32,920 --> 00:59:36,120
Speaker 1: is this, when it comes to the murder of John F. Kennedy,

940
00:59:36,240 --> 00:59:39,640
Speaker 1: there is still, more than half a century later, something

941
00:59:39,720 --> 00:59:42,920
Speaker 1: the US government doesn't want you to know. It's like,

942
00:59:43,560 --> 00:59:47,160
Speaker 1: that's true, right, that's literally what the definition of classifying

943
00:59:47,200 --> 00:59:52,840
Speaker 1: things means. I want to know. You can't. It would

944
00:59:52,840 --> 00:59:54,760
Speaker 1: blow your mind, dude, It would kill you. It would

945
00:59:54,880 --> 00:59:59,760
Speaker 1: under you a quivering pool of jelly. Look look behind me.

946
01:00:00,480 --> 01:00:02,880
Speaker 1: I want to believe and I want to know. I

947
01:00:02,960 --> 01:00:07,480
Speaker 1: finally got an X Files poster in my room. I

948
01:00:07,520 --> 01:00:11,520
Speaker 1: was hoping you were going to have the classic, you know. Yeah,

949
01:00:12,040 --> 01:00:14,920
Speaker 1: I like this one because you got Molder and Scully,

950
01:00:14,960 --> 01:00:17,760
Speaker 1: and Scully is always looking over me. Now, you know

951
01:00:17,840 --> 01:00:21,200
Speaker 1: what's weird about because I know we will rewatch that show,

952
01:00:21,280 --> 01:00:24,760
Speaker 1: but I rewatched it during the pandemic. Just the greatest hits,

953
01:00:25,120 --> 01:00:27,600
Speaker 1: you know, the ones that really speak to me. And

954
01:00:28,080 --> 01:00:32,920
Speaker 1: as a kid, I didn't notice how often everybody says

955
01:00:33,040 --> 01:00:36,160
Speaker 1: Fox Moulder's name. It takes you out of the story.

956
01:00:36,400 --> 01:00:38,600
Speaker 1: It's not the way that people talk to each other,

957
01:00:39,680 --> 01:00:41,560
Speaker 1: you know. I mean, don't you get weirded out when

958
01:00:41,600 --> 01:00:44,880
Speaker 1: someone's using your name too much in casual conversation, Like

959
01:00:44,920 --> 01:00:48,480
Speaker 1: just Fox calling him Fox all the time? Says Molder,

960
01:00:48,560 --> 01:00:52,240
Speaker 1: like every three sentences, that's true. Did she ever call

961
01:00:52,320 --> 01:00:55,400
Speaker 1: him Fox? Like, like if she's cranky at him? I

962
01:00:55,440 --> 01:00:59,320
Speaker 1: think in emotional moments when they get more um more

963
01:00:59,400 --> 01:01:08,520
Speaker 1: spoilers oaks, when they that simmering sexual attention between the

964
01:01:08,520 --> 01:01:13,680
Speaker 1: two didn't just redact us a redaction. What they called

965
01:01:13,720 --> 01:01:18,439
Speaker 1: that was call what they call a shush redaction, classic move,

966
01:01:18,720 --> 01:01:23,320
Speaker 1: classic Matt move. And this is where we're going to

967
01:01:23,440 --> 01:01:25,720
Speaker 1: call it. Today again is the first of a two

968
01:01:25,760 --> 01:01:28,960
Speaker 1: part series. It might end up being more than two parts. Frankly,

969
01:01:29,680 --> 01:01:32,360
Speaker 1: this is an introduction of sorts, so tune in for

970
01:01:32,480 --> 01:01:36,040
Speaker 1: part two. We're diving deep into the JFK conspiracies. We're

971
01:01:36,040 --> 01:01:37,840
Speaker 1: going to give you some juice. We're going to go

972
01:01:37,880 --> 01:01:40,880
Speaker 1: from the plausible to the far out to maybe even

973
01:01:41,000 --> 01:01:44,440
Speaker 1: the bizarre JFK related claims of the modern day. But

974
01:01:44,600 --> 01:01:48,320
Speaker 1: for now, what do you think is the official story legit?

975
01:01:49,200 --> 01:01:51,480
Speaker 1: Is there a cover up? And if so, what kind

976
01:01:51,600 --> 01:01:54,720
Speaker 1: of cover up? Who's involved? If you are listening and

977
01:01:54,800 --> 01:01:59,320
Speaker 1: you are John Fitzgerald Kennedy and you are somehow alive, um,

978
01:01:59,360 --> 01:02:01,600
Speaker 1: you know right us. But if you want to write

979
01:02:01,600 --> 01:02:04,040
Speaker 1: to us, you don't have to be Kennedy. Whomever you are,

980
01:02:04,080 --> 01:02:05,520
Speaker 1: we'd love to hear from you. We try to be

981
01:02:05,560 --> 01:02:08,880
Speaker 1: easy to find online. Oh, the Internet such a place

982
01:02:08,960 --> 01:02:13,360
Speaker 1: of of of mystery and wonder and and chaos. Lots

983
01:02:13,360 --> 01:02:15,120
Speaker 1: of chaos on the Internet, but not in our little

984
01:02:15,160 --> 01:02:17,600
Speaker 1: corners of the Internet. Only the mystery and wonder. You

985
01:02:17,640 --> 01:02:20,640
Speaker 1: can find us on Facebook, You can find us on YouTube.

986
01:02:20,680 --> 01:02:24,920
Speaker 1: You can find us on Twitter under the handle conspiracy stuff.

987
01:02:25,360 --> 01:02:27,240
Speaker 1: You can find us on Instagram if you wish at

988
01:02:27,240 --> 01:02:31,560
Speaker 1: the handle conspiracy stuff show yes. If you would like

989
01:02:31,680 --> 01:02:35,040
Speaker 1: to use your phone and your voice to contact us,

990
01:02:35,280 --> 01:02:38,240
Speaker 1: you can leave us a voicemail. Our number is one

991
01:02:38,400 --> 01:02:42,440
Speaker 1: eight three three st d w y t K. You

992
01:02:42,520 --> 01:02:46,800
Speaker 1: have three minutes. Say anything you wish, any message, any story,

993
01:02:47,040 --> 01:02:50,280
Speaker 1: any topic you want to suggest, whatever it is that's wonderful,

994
01:02:50,360 --> 01:02:53,200
Speaker 1: we want it, We'll take it. Please give yourself a

995
01:02:53,240 --> 01:02:56,440
Speaker 1: cool nickname. And if three minutes is not enough for

996
01:02:56,480 --> 01:02:59,160
Speaker 1: everything you want to say, instead send us a good

997
01:02:59,160 --> 01:03:22,959
Speaker 1: old fashioned email. We are conspiracy at iHeart radio dot com.

998
01:03:22,960 --> 01:03:25,080
Speaker 1: Stuff they Don't want you to Know is a production

999
01:03:25,120 --> 01:03:28,200
Speaker 1: of I heart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio,

1000
01:03:28,360 --> 01:03:31,200
Speaker 1: visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

1001
01:03:31,280 --> 01:03:32,560
Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows