1 00:00:09,280 --> 00:00:12,480 Speaker 1: Hey, Daniel, how do you feel about skepticism. I don't know, 2 00:00:12,520 --> 00:00:14,600 Speaker 1: I'm a little skeptical of it. Well, I mean, do 3 00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:17,480 Speaker 1: you think it's always a good thing to be asking questions? 4 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:20,200 Speaker 1: I'm always in favor of questions. I mean, that's definitely 5 00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:21,840 Speaker 1: how we got where we are, and that's how we 6 00:00:21,960 --> 00:00:24,960 Speaker 1: learned so much about this incredible universe. But you know 7 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:27,160 Speaker 1: there are caveats. Okay, so I got a good one 8 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:31,040 Speaker 1: for you. Do you believe the Earth is round? Actually 9 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:34,080 Speaker 1: know that Earth is not round? What? Are you one 10 00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:37,519 Speaker 1: of those flat earthers? No? No, No, those people are crazy. 11 00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:40,199 Speaker 1: There are a lot of them out there. I know 12 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:42,960 Speaker 1: there are flat earthers all around the globe, all around 13 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:46,400 Speaker 1: the globe, not on top or below the globe exactly. Well, 14 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:50,040 Speaker 1: what's your take from a physicist? The official answer is 15 00:00:50,159 --> 00:00:53,320 Speaker 1: Earth round or flat? It's a false choice. The answer 16 00:00:53,440 --> 00:01:13,880 Speaker 1: is neither. Stay tuned and find out. Hi. I'm Jorge, 17 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:17,000 Speaker 1: I'm a cartoonists and the creator of PhD Comics. Hi, 18 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:20,160 Speaker 1: I'm Daniel Whiteson. I'm a particle physicist by day and 19 00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:23,520 Speaker 1: a podcaster by any other time. And welcome to our podcast. 20 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:27,200 Speaker 1: Daniel and Jorge explain the Universe, a production of I 21 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:30,039 Speaker 1: Heart Radio, in which we try to explain crazy things 22 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:33,600 Speaker 1: about the universe, sometimes things really far away, sometimes things 23 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:37,040 Speaker 1: in our neighborhood, sometimes things right under our feet. I'm sorry. 24 00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:40,080 Speaker 1: We try to tackle big questions, small questions, Questions you 25 00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:43,480 Speaker 1: think you know the answer to, but maybe the universe 26 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:46,240 Speaker 1: has a way to surprise you. That's right. Round questions, 27 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:50,640 Speaker 1: flat questions, square questions, squiggly questions, and squishy questions. We 28 00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:53,920 Speaker 1: love all the questions. Questions are our business. Who I 29 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:57,040 Speaker 1: like that as our company? Mottel, that's right. Do we 30 00:01:57,080 --> 00:01:59,640 Speaker 1: have a company, Daniel, Um, we should make one. Yes, 31 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:01,960 Speaker 1: We're in a good company. All right. Well, so today 32 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:05,960 Speaker 1: we're tackling a question that obviously humans have been um 33 00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:09,240 Speaker 1: had been struggling with for a long time, and I 34 00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:12,120 Speaker 1: think for pretty much the last couple of centuries, people 35 00:02:12,200 --> 00:02:14,240 Speaker 1: think we know that the answer to right. That's right. 36 00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:17,240 Speaker 1: This is the kind of question people ask, and it's 37 00:02:17,240 --> 00:02:19,560 Speaker 1: a kind of question it can be hard to answer 38 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:22,840 Speaker 1: immediately just by looking at what's around you. But it's 39 00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:25,160 Speaker 1: a fun question because it's the kind of question that 40 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:28,320 Speaker 1: you know, sort of the beginning of cosmology. It's like, 41 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:31,320 Speaker 1: let's try to get a larger scale understanding. Let's try 42 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:33,720 Speaker 1: to understand not just the world I live in every 43 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:36,200 Speaker 1: day when I walk to my friend's house or go 44 00:02:36,520 --> 00:02:39,200 Speaker 1: to the river and wash my food, but like the 45 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:42,280 Speaker 1: larger context where we find ourselves and how it all works. 46 00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:45,639 Speaker 1: So the beginning of that intellectual struggle, yeah, kind of 47 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:49,960 Speaker 1: asking like what's beyond what we can see and touch? Right? 48 00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:51,960 Speaker 1: That's right? How does it all fit in? Right? Like, 49 00:02:52,440 --> 00:02:54,680 Speaker 1: you know the picture frame that my life lives in. 50 00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:57,480 Speaker 1: Am I a tiny little dust mode in the corner? 51 00:02:57,520 --> 00:03:00,000 Speaker 1: Am I in the center of it? Um? How big 52 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:02,720 Speaker 1: is that picture frame? You know? This? These are interesting questions, 53 00:03:02,720 --> 00:03:04,840 Speaker 1: and I wonder sometimes like who were the first people 54 00:03:04,919 --> 00:03:07,880 Speaker 1: to think of those questions? You know, as humanity emerge 55 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:12,320 Speaker 1: from you know, pre humans into an intelligence, Like when 56 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:16,480 Speaker 1: did people post humans? When did people first start to 57 00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:19,040 Speaker 1: ask these kinds of questions? You know, how big is 58 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:22,240 Speaker 1: the earth? What is its shape? Um? You know, where 59 00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:24,280 Speaker 1: is the sun? All these kind of questions about our 60 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:27,320 Speaker 1: basic cosmology? Yeah, Like who do you think was the 61 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:30,720 Speaker 1: first sentient being? That just kind of wondered, like if 62 00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:33,440 Speaker 1: I keep going in that direction, what's going to happen? 63 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:36,640 Speaker 1: Or if I shoot straight up, what's going to happen? 64 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:39,000 Speaker 1: Or straight down? I don't know, but I think the 65 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:41,880 Speaker 1: answer would probably um make you happy, because I think 66 00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:46,120 Speaker 1: that a lot of anthropologists imagine that humans have been 67 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:49,240 Speaker 1: intelligent for tens of thousands of years, and the major 68 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:54,040 Speaker 1: evidence of that is basically cartoons. Oh yeah, that's I 69 00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:58,240 Speaker 1: always say, that's a sure sign of intelligence to draw them, 70 00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:00,480 Speaker 1: to be able to draw them, or the sign of 71 00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:03,840 Speaker 1: the society is about to crumble, that's right, and good 72 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:08,240 Speaker 1: extinct like those ancient civilizations. No, but it's cave paintings, right, 73 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:10,680 Speaker 1: I mean we can see which are basically cartoons like 74 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:15,480 Speaker 1: people doing symbolic thinking and describing dogs and buffalo and 75 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:17,960 Speaker 1: all sorts of things on the walls of caves describing them. 76 00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:20,040 Speaker 1: I think that's the first sign of intelligence. So probably 77 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:22,800 Speaker 1: around then people started to have thoughts about, you know, 78 00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 1: their situation and how it works and what's the bigger 79 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:28,200 Speaker 1: what's the bigger situation that their life is in, and 80 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:30,640 Speaker 1: so I think that's what led them to ask this question. 81 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:33,280 Speaker 1: So yeah, that's kind of the question is, uh, you know, 82 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:36,240 Speaker 1: what did humans think about when they asked themselves? What 83 00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:38,159 Speaker 1: happens if I keep going in one direction. And so 84 00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:46,080 Speaker 1: today on the program, we'll be taggling the question is 85 00:04:46,120 --> 00:04:50,000 Speaker 1: the Earth round? That's right? What shape is this crazy 86 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:52,840 Speaker 1: rock that we're living on? And you know, you can 87 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:55,400 Speaker 1: look at a lot of things that people describe early on, 88 00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:58,039 Speaker 1: you know, drawings from hundreds or thousands of years ago, 89 00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:01,120 Speaker 1: people trying to draw maps and what the Earth looked like, 90 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:03,760 Speaker 1: and there's some pretty crazy ideas out there. But if 91 00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:05,800 Speaker 1: you just sort of look around you, or if you're 92 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:08,200 Speaker 1: just like born in the world and you look around, 93 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:11,280 Speaker 1: the world looks pretty flat, right, Like, as far as 94 00:05:11,279 --> 00:05:13,920 Speaker 1: you can see, the ground is pretty flat. You think 95 00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:16,599 Speaker 1: that we're sort of on a on a flat surface, right, 96 00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:20,080 Speaker 1: because you your immediate surface around you is flat, and 97 00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:21,840 Speaker 1: kind of you look out a little bit further, it's 98 00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:24,599 Speaker 1: still flat. Yeah, And it seems simple, right, And if 99 00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:27,599 Speaker 1: you're the goal is to understand around you, well, what's 100 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:29,120 Speaker 1: around you, then the first thing you're gonna do is 101 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:31,280 Speaker 1: think of the simplest thing. And the world looks kind 102 00:05:31,279 --> 00:05:33,400 Speaker 1: of flat, and you can't see that far away, and 103 00:05:33,839 --> 00:05:36,680 Speaker 1: you know, many surfaces, if you're only looking a small 104 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:39,080 Speaker 1: portion of them, look flat. I mean, the Earth could 105 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:41,360 Speaker 1: be all sorts of crazy shapes, and if you only 106 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:44,760 Speaker 1: look in your neighborhood, it might look flat in the vicinity. Yeah. So, 107 00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:48,080 Speaker 1: and I imagine most of our listeners, um probably think 108 00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:52,279 Speaker 1: or know that the Earth is not flat. But we're 109 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:56,000 Speaker 1: wondering if people actually know the real answer to the question, 110 00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:58,839 Speaker 1: is the Earth round? Yeah? Or what is the shape 111 00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:01,120 Speaker 1: of the Earth? That's a different Russian What shape is 112 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:05,440 Speaker 1: it in? That's right? What shape it is it? Politically 113 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:09,120 Speaker 1: fitness wise, I think we should not be judgmental the Earth. 114 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:11,839 Speaker 1: I think we should be Earth positive, you know, I think, um, 115 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:13,440 Speaker 1: this is the one only one we have. And he 116 00:06:13,480 --> 00:06:15,960 Speaker 1: gets depressed and you know, decides to end itself and 117 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:18,880 Speaker 1: plumbing into the sun. You'll be sorry. That's right, the 118 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:22,960 Speaker 1: Earth is round and proud? That's right? Exactly. Who wants 119 00:06:22,960 --> 00:06:28,160 Speaker 1: to be on a slender planet anyway? You know? All right? So, 120 00:06:28,360 --> 00:06:30,760 Speaker 1: as usual, Dad, we were wondering what people how people 121 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:32,680 Speaker 1: out there in the street would answer this question. And 122 00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:36,360 Speaker 1: so Daniel went out there into the street and accosted 123 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:40,880 Speaker 1: innocent bystanders and asked them a very basic question. That's right. 124 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:43,520 Speaker 1: And not only did I ask them if they believe 125 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:46,200 Speaker 1: the Earth was round, but I asked them how they knew, 126 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:49,320 Speaker 1: which I thought. Let's some of the more fascinating answers. Well, 127 00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:51,480 Speaker 1: let's see what people had to say. Do you believe 128 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:54,680 Speaker 1: the Earth is round? Yes? Why what evidence do you 129 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:57,000 Speaker 1: have that the Earth is round? I think it is 130 00:06:57,200 --> 00:07:02,640 Speaker 1: best answered by astronomy is like, of the Earth is round, 131 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:06,360 Speaker 1: we go. If the Earth is not round, you go. 132 00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:09,039 Speaker 1: You start from a point and you keep going and 133 00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:12,800 Speaker 1: you learn reach to this to your first place. Do 134 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:16,640 Speaker 1: you agree with me? Says one reason? And there are 135 00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:19,880 Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure there are like lots of proofs about it. Yes. 136 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:23,080 Speaker 1: Why whateverence do you have the Earth is round? Because 137 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:28,440 Speaker 1: the idea that satellites are free fall and that they 138 00:07:28,480 --> 00:07:30,320 Speaker 1: free fall around the Earth. So if you throw a ball, 139 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:32,680 Speaker 1: it goes, it has a curve, and so that kind 140 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:35,920 Speaker 1: of goes ahead improves that like we're falling innocence, and 141 00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:38,240 Speaker 1: so that can go ahead and explain how satellites can 142 00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:42,320 Speaker 1: fall around the Earth constantly cool orbits. Okay, good answers around, Yes, 143 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:45,280 Speaker 1: why what everything is do you found? Well, based on 144 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:49,200 Speaker 1: what everyone else has said, I don't know, there's some evidence, 145 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:51,080 Speaker 1: but I do believe the Earth is around. Do you 146 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:53,760 Speaker 1: believe that the Earth is round. What evidence do you 147 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:58,800 Speaker 1: have inund airplanes? I don't know, pictures of like from 148 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:01,880 Speaker 1: the I like that, all right, pictures from space other 149 00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:06,720 Speaker 1: other astronomical objects are also around, so good point other 150 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:09,200 Speaker 1: points around. I do believe there is around. Why is that? 151 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:11,760 Speaker 1: Whatever you want? I believe this is around because just 152 00:08:11,920 --> 00:08:14,840 Speaker 1: what I've learned in my education growing up middle school 153 00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:17,600 Speaker 1: to high school to college, it's just what I'm familiar with. 154 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:24,040 Speaker 1: So yes, why whatever pictures NASA? Al right, pretty no 155 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:26,640 Speaker 1: flat earther is you couldn't find any flat earthers out 156 00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:30,120 Speaker 1: there in Irvine. That's right, good job you see, irline. 157 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:33,600 Speaker 1: I was really relieved to not run into any flat earthers. 158 00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:35,760 Speaker 1: I mean I was a tiny bit curious, like, what 159 00:08:35,800 --> 00:08:37,760 Speaker 1: would I do if I met a flat earther, Would 160 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:39,839 Speaker 1: I like engage them in debate on the spot and 161 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:42,559 Speaker 1: be able to persuade them. Anybody who believes the Earth 162 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:45,760 Speaker 1: is flat is probably not really open to actual scientific 163 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:48,320 Speaker 1: dialogue on the subject um. But I was also sort 164 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:51,800 Speaker 1: of relieved that, like in this educational community, at least 165 00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:55,199 Speaker 1: we've succeeded at that level that everybody understands the basics 166 00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:57,720 Speaker 1: of the world around them. I think the flat earthers 167 00:08:57,800 --> 00:09:02,520 Speaker 1: only exist on the Internet. Sometimes I wonder if the 168 00:09:02,520 --> 00:09:04,840 Speaker 1: flat earthers are all just trolls, you know, if they're 169 00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:08,400 Speaker 1: just being ridiculous to make everybody mad because they get 170 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:11,800 Speaker 1: their kicks by pissing people off. But I did some research, 171 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:13,959 Speaker 1: and there's a pretty hardcore group of people out there 172 00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:17,240 Speaker 1: that really, honestly, sincerely believe the Earth is flat. So 173 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:19,679 Speaker 1: you got pretty much everyone said yes, uh, and they 174 00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:22,280 Speaker 1: all had all pretty good reasons for believing that the 175 00:09:22,280 --> 00:09:24,080 Speaker 1: Earth is around. Yeah, I'll be great. Some of the 176 00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:26,320 Speaker 1: reasons as excellent, and some of the reasons is a 177 00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:29,960 Speaker 1: little weak, like the weaker ones are like, well, everybody 178 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:34,000 Speaker 1: says so, you know, and that's okay. Like you, you know, 179 00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:36,040 Speaker 1: you should be a skeptical person. You should try to 180 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:38,480 Speaker 1: think about these things for yourself. On the other hand, 181 00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:42,720 Speaker 1: like if there's something that everybody is believing, probably it's true. 182 00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:45,160 Speaker 1: I mean, there's probably a good reason why, you know, 183 00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:48,320 Speaker 1: scientists and experts and everybody are saying X, y Z 184 00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:51,559 Speaker 1: is true. So while you should be skeptical, you shouldn't 185 00:09:51,559 --> 00:09:54,840 Speaker 1: just toss out everything that experts are saying just because 186 00:09:54,880 --> 00:09:57,080 Speaker 1: you can't prove it yourself. Well, it gets a little 187 00:09:57,080 --> 00:10:01,040 Speaker 1: bit philosophical, because I mean, it's impossible to know everything 188 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:05,040 Speaker 1: and to be aware of all the evidence for every 189 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:07,600 Speaker 1: single thing out there in the world, and so at 190 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:09,200 Speaker 1: some point you do sort of have to be like, 191 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:12,080 Speaker 1: all right, most scientists believe this. I guess it's probably true. 192 00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:14,439 Speaker 1: That's right. Yes, sometimes you have to talk to an expert. 193 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:16,600 Speaker 1: And you know, what's the point of talking to experts 194 00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:18,600 Speaker 1: if you're not going to believe what they say? Right? 195 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:20,719 Speaker 1: Like you ask me physics questions. You don't go off 196 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:23,520 Speaker 1: and double check every single thing I say? Or do 197 00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:27,480 Speaker 1: you a triple check it? Daniel? Does that mean you 198 00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:29,400 Speaker 1: have to other physicists on the line who are like 199 00:10:29,679 --> 00:10:31,679 Speaker 1: giving the thumbs up of the thumbs down in your 200 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:36,160 Speaker 1: secret Daniels in my pocket? Man, I'd like some secret 201 00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:38,640 Speaker 1: Daniels in my pocket. Do some of that work for me? 202 00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:41,080 Speaker 1: That'd be awesome. I have a Daniel Grayson and a 203 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:47,440 Speaker 1: Daniel and defeat green Sun, different shades of Daniel, all 204 00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:51,160 Speaker 1: the colors of Daniel, different fifty shades of Daniel. You 205 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:55,120 Speaker 1: know there's a fascilating book. I don't know what that 206 00:10:55,160 --> 00:10:57,640 Speaker 1: book is about. I have to be the fan fiction 207 00:10:57,760 --> 00:11:01,120 Speaker 1: version of this podcast, they're not safe for persion. Um. 208 00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:03,240 Speaker 1: The other answer is that I really liked were the 209 00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:05,560 Speaker 1: one people who have their own reasons, you know, who 210 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:07,679 Speaker 1: had thought about it. They're like, well, that's impossible, and 211 00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:11,280 Speaker 1: here's why they could actually make an argument, you know, like, um, 212 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:13,880 Speaker 1: everything else out there is round, or we know that 213 00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:17,080 Speaker 1: things are in orbit, right, these are good reasons, um. 214 00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:19,480 Speaker 1: Or you know, people who don't think that the government 215 00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:22,760 Speaker 1: is lying to them about everything. They believe the pictures. 216 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:27,000 Speaker 1: They believe that, they believe the you know, they believe 217 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:28,719 Speaker 1: the pictures of other I mean, and I guess you 218 00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:30,520 Speaker 1: can see other planets, right, you can see the moon, 219 00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:33,520 Speaker 1: and with the telescope you can see other planets. Yeah, 220 00:11:33,559 --> 00:11:35,600 Speaker 1: you certainly can. You can see other planets, and they're 221 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:38,079 Speaker 1: all around. Pretty much everything out there in space above 222 00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:40,960 Speaker 1: a certain size is round, and for good reason, right, 223 00:11:41,559 --> 00:11:44,079 Speaker 1: it's or round dish at least. And the reason is 224 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:47,240 Speaker 1: just gravity. You know. Any if if you have a 225 00:11:47,280 --> 00:11:49,320 Speaker 1: big enough object, it's gonna have a lot of gravity. 226 00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:52,760 Speaker 1: And then if it's not around, that means that some 227 00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:55,480 Speaker 1: part is further from the center than another part, and 228 00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:57,800 Speaker 1: eventually it's just going to break and roll downhill like 229 00:11:57,800 --> 00:11:59,960 Speaker 1: all mountains on Earth. All mountains on Earth will event 230 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:04,560 Speaker 1: actually crumble, right due to rain and gravity and other forces. Now, 231 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:19,599 Speaker 1: a quick word from our sponsor if we're going to 232 00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:21,800 Speaker 1: answer this question, is the Earth round? Let's let's start 233 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:24,400 Speaker 1: kind of where humans started, right, And so let's start 234 00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:26,319 Speaker 1: first of all with how do we know the Earth 235 00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:30,320 Speaker 1: is not flat? Because that's kind of what your intuition 236 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:32,440 Speaker 1: would tell you if you never traveled or seen pictures 237 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:34,720 Speaker 1: from space. Right. Okay, so if you haven't seen pictures 238 00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:37,880 Speaker 1: from space and you're like, you know, natural science kind 239 00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:40,560 Speaker 1: of person a few thousand years ago, how might you 240 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:43,439 Speaker 1: figure out that the Earth is not flat? Well, the 241 00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:45,960 Speaker 1: you know, the history of it is that people did 242 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:49,280 Speaker 1: things like they did experiments where they stuck sticks in 243 00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:52,400 Speaker 1: the ground and they look to the shadows. Now, if 244 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:54,600 Speaker 1: the Earth is flat and the sun is just like 245 00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:57,120 Speaker 1: above us, then every stick is going to have a 246 00:12:57,120 --> 00:13:00,760 Speaker 1: shadow the same length. But if the Earth is round, 247 00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:03,120 Speaker 1: then those shadows is going to be different lengths at 248 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:06,040 Speaker 1: different places. And so this is like what a Greek 249 00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:09,480 Speaker 1: guy did. He put tall sticks in different towns in Greece, 250 00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:11,880 Speaker 1: and he knew how far away those towns were from 251 00:13:11,880 --> 00:13:14,520 Speaker 1: each other, and he measured the angles of those sticks 252 00:13:14,559 --> 00:13:17,280 Speaker 1: and the length of the shadows, and from that he 253 00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:19,720 Speaker 1: could estimate he could prove that the Earth was round 254 00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:24,720 Speaker 1: and estimated size to pretty good accuracy. What is this 255 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:29,240 Speaker 1: a like a apocryphal story or for real? Hey? You 256 00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:31,480 Speaker 1: know everything about ancient Greece could be apocryphal, right, The 257 00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:34,160 Speaker 1: whole thing could just be invented as far as as 258 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:36,640 Speaker 1: far as we know. Um, But you know this is 259 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:38,959 Speaker 1: um as far as we understand it, This really happened, 260 00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:46,920 Speaker 1: you agree, Greece. Let's talk about whether Greece really happened? Right? 261 00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:54,440 Speaker 1: Is Grease just a conspiracy man? No? But you know, 262 00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:56,839 Speaker 1: the thing about ancient Greece is that we know so 263 00:13:57,040 --> 00:14:00,040 Speaker 1: little of what happened because the Dark Ages and so 264 00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:02,440 Speaker 1: much of what they did was destroyed. And you know, 265 00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:06,080 Speaker 1: we have like a tiny trickle of the vibrant intellectual 266 00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:08,760 Speaker 1: product of that civilization. So we really don't know what 267 00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:10,600 Speaker 1: was going on in ancient Greece. We know a tiny 268 00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:13,480 Speaker 1: little slipper, which is such a tragedy. It breaks my 269 00:14:13,559 --> 00:14:15,959 Speaker 1: heart to think about all those great ideas that were 270 00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:19,440 Speaker 1: just like lost, you know. Um. But anyway, all those 271 00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:23,280 Speaker 1: big wine parties. No, it's just to me. It's it 272 00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:26,760 Speaker 1: breaks my heart when I when I think about you know, um, 273 00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:30,400 Speaker 1: progress that's been made, Things have been figured out, mathematics 274 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:34,120 Speaker 1: has been developed, and then just just discarded or lost, 275 00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:37,080 Speaker 1: you know, like in huge fires of ancient libraries and 276 00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:41,640 Speaker 1: destructions of civilization. Anyway, we do have some clues about 277 00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:43,680 Speaker 1: what happened in ancient Greece, and there are stories about 278 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:47,360 Speaker 1: the about folks measuring the size of the Earth using 279 00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:49,680 Speaker 1: basically just two sticks in the ground. Okay, and so 280 00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:52,360 Speaker 1: the ideas that he planted a stick in one town 281 00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:55,840 Speaker 1: and then it's kind of like if you plant the 282 00:14:55,880 --> 00:14:59,920 Speaker 1: stick in California and then you run over to Florida 283 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:03,560 Speaker 1: and plant another stick there. At any given time of 284 00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:07,480 Speaker 1: the day, the shadows are might be different. Yeah, there 285 00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:10,480 Speaker 1: will be different lengths, right, because those two sticks have 286 00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:13,240 Speaker 1: a different angle with respect to the sun. They're seeing 287 00:15:13,280 --> 00:15:16,080 Speaker 1: the sun at different points in the sky. Yeah, exactly. 288 00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:18,560 Speaker 1: And if the earth, but if the Earth was flat, 289 00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:22,120 Speaker 1: the shadows would be identical. That's right, that's right, Yeah, 290 00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:25,680 Speaker 1: that's that's the point. Yeah. Um No, they wouldn't be 291 00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:27,640 Speaker 1: the same, would they, But there would be the same 292 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:29,240 Speaker 1: length there might be a different angle, but there would 293 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:31,720 Speaker 1: be the same length. Pretty sure, Pretty sure. I mean 294 00:15:31,720 --> 00:15:35,080 Speaker 1: it depends on your particular flat earth model, right, But 295 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:38,320 Speaker 1: on a sphere, it's definitely true that there are different 296 00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:41,320 Speaker 1: lengths and angles and that you can use that to 297 00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:44,120 Speaker 1: measure the size of the sphere. And another key element, 298 00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:46,560 Speaker 1: of course, is knowing that the Sun is really really 299 00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:49,000 Speaker 1: far away, so that the light that comes from it 300 00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:52,640 Speaker 1: is basically always parallel, because otherwise you could try to 301 00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:55,360 Speaker 1: explain the different angles that you get from sticks to 302 00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:58,120 Speaker 1: different places and make it consistent with a flat earth. 303 00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:00,440 Speaker 1: You could try to do that by saying, oh, well, 304 00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:02,720 Speaker 1: maybe the Sun is really close to the Earth and 305 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:05,320 Speaker 1: that's why we get different angles right over a flat earth. 306 00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:07,880 Speaker 1: But that's silly. We know the Sun is far away. 307 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:09,840 Speaker 1: If the Sun was that close to the Earth, you 308 00:16:09,840 --> 00:16:12,440 Speaker 1: could see it's apparent size like change as you move 309 00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:14,680 Speaker 1: around the Earth, and we don't see that. So that's 310 00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:18,480 Speaker 1: an important part of the argument. Interesting, but wouldn't that 311 00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:22,480 Speaker 1: require you to have like a walkie talkie between the 312 00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:25,920 Speaker 1: two places, you know, to say, all right, right now, 313 00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:28,320 Speaker 1: measure the length of the shadow. But if you don't 314 00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:30,800 Speaker 1: have that instant communication, how would you like coordinated and 315 00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:32,920 Speaker 1: know that it was measured at the same time. That's 316 00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:35,160 Speaker 1: a good question. I don't know how they managed it. 317 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:40,680 Speaker 1: Maybe they had walkie talkies in ancient Greece increase, They 318 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:42,600 Speaker 1: definitely didn't. We don't know anything they could have burned 319 00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:44,960 Speaker 1: with the labrary. I mean that the power of the 320 00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:48,360 Speaker 1: test is greater the further the sticks are apart. But 321 00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:50,160 Speaker 1: I don't know how far apart they have to be 322 00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:52,320 Speaker 1: for you to have a measurable effect. It might not 323 00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:54,480 Speaker 1: have to be very far, you know, so you might 324 00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:56,480 Speaker 1: be able to say, like, all right, we'll both walk 325 00:16:56,520 --> 00:16:58,680 Speaker 1: for an hour and then plant a stick and then 326 00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:01,440 Speaker 1: measure the length, and it might be enough, Oh I see, 327 00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:03,880 Speaker 1: or maybe like a smoke signals or something like if 328 00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:06,600 Speaker 1: it's several miles and you can still do it, yeah, 329 00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:10,000 Speaker 1: smoke signals exactly. Um, you'd be good at inventing physics 330 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:13,480 Speaker 1: experiments in ancient Greece. Yeah, I definitely want to around. Um. 331 00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:15,199 Speaker 1: But there are also other ways. You don't have to 332 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:17,200 Speaker 1: do two sticks in the ground, Like, there are other 333 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:20,480 Speaker 1: ways to figure out that the Earth is round, even 334 00:17:20,560 --> 00:17:23,440 Speaker 1: even without technology. All right, what are those ways? Well, 335 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:25,800 Speaker 1: you can just look at the stars. Right, travel the 336 00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:28,400 Speaker 1: Earth and look at the stars. You see different stars 337 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:31,480 Speaker 1: from different parts of the Earth. Right. If the Earth 338 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:34,480 Speaker 1: is flat, then everybody should be seeing the same sky. 339 00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:36,320 Speaker 1: I mean, you'll be seeing it from a slightly different 340 00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:38,080 Speaker 1: point of view if you're in a different spot on 341 00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:42,359 Speaker 1: the Earth. But some stars are blocked by the earth. 342 00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:45,000 Speaker 1: Right you walk from you walk from North America to 343 00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:48,600 Speaker 1: South America, you're gonna see different stars in the sky. Right, 344 00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:51,000 Speaker 1: the northern stars you can't see them because the Earth's 345 00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:54,760 Speaker 1: curvatures in the way. Oh I see. So if you 346 00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:58,280 Speaker 1: assuming you can remember the sky right, or you can 347 00:17:58,359 --> 00:18:02,720 Speaker 1: draw it for example, Yeah, you heard of that drawing 348 00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:06,280 Speaker 1: only in caves. I only know that kind. And you 349 00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:07,879 Speaker 1: can't see the stars when you're in a cave, so 350 00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:09,960 Speaker 1: you can sort of you chisel along the side of 351 00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:11,680 Speaker 1: you join on the side of the cave. You walk 352 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:14,240 Speaker 1: to South America, you draw another cave, and they're like, hmmmm, 353 00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:17,359 Speaker 1: I should have brought my cave with me. That's how 354 00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:26,439 Speaker 1: they invented the portable cave, probably otherwise known as the tent. Okay. 355 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:28,479 Speaker 1: So that's another way you would tell, right, is you 356 00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:31,959 Speaker 1: would uh notice that the stars are different in different 357 00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:36,320 Speaker 1: parts of the Earth, which means that the Earth can't 358 00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:39,919 Speaker 1: be flat. That's right, that's another reason. Another way you 359 00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:43,520 Speaker 1: can tell, again without really much technology, is just seasons. 360 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:46,960 Speaker 1: Like how do you get seasons on a flat earth? Right? 361 00:18:47,119 --> 00:18:49,200 Speaker 1: I mean different parts of the earth have difference. You 362 00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:51,240 Speaker 1: might say, okay, we can get north, we can get 363 00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:53,879 Speaker 1: winter the sun goes further away, we can get summer 364 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:56,240 Speaker 1: when the sun gets closer. But we have different seasons 365 00:18:56,280 --> 00:18:58,320 Speaker 1: and different part of the earth. Right, we have summer 366 00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:01,280 Speaker 1: in the northern hemisphere when we have during the southern hemisphere. 367 00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:03,320 Speaker 1: How do you account for that? Well, I mean if 368 00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:05,360 Speaker 1: I if I live thousands of years ago, I mean 369 00:19:05,359 --> 00:19:07,520 Speaker 1: I wouldn't know. I wouldn't know anything, right for all? 370 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:10,639 Speaker 1: For all I know there are gods and weird you know, 371 00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:15,359 Speaker 1: magical beings that make it winter here, and some are there, yes, absolutely, 372 00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:20,480 Speaker 1: And there is always another explanation that's like ridiculously complicated, 373 00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:24,400 Speaker 1: involves magic and gods are like crazy trajectories that can 374 00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:27,080 Speaker 1: explain all the data. But we prefer the simplest, right, 375 00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:29,919 Speaker 1: If the simplest explanation is that the Earth is a 376 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:32,560 Speaker 1: body just like all the other ones we see, and 377 00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:35,320 Speaker 1: it looks just like them, and it's also circular. It's 378 00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:39,719 Speaker 1: also basically spherical, and that explains everything we see. And 379 00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:43,240 Speaker 1: so it's like, by far the explanation we prefer to, 380 00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:47,480 Speaker 1: there's some crazy magic aliens out there doing some crazy 381 00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:50,040 Speaker 1: tricks on us, or here on Earth? Are you here 382 00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:52,480 Speaker 1: on Earth? Exactly? Okay? Cool? And then what's the last 383 00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:56,120 Speaker 1: last experiment you as a Greek scientist can do. Well? 384 00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:58,800 Speaker 1: The simplest one is that you can see hints of 385 00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:01,840 Speaker 1: the curvature. I mean you can look at ships, for example, 386 00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:08,159 Speaker 1: coming over the horizon from far away, like what's blocking them? Right? Ships? Um? 387 00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:10,760 Speaker 1: Coming over the horizon, You're seeing them come over the 388 00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:14,760 Speaker 1: curvature of the Earth. Right, that's pretty direct right there. Um. 389 00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:18,280 Speaker 1: And in a similar way, you can see further when 390 00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:20,960 Speaker 1: you get higher up, Like if the Earth was flat, 391 00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:24,159 Speaker 1: then you couldn't see any further by getting any higher up, 392 00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:26,320 Speaker 1: or you can see at a different angle, right, but 393 00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:29,160 Speaker 1: you couldn't see any further. But on a spherical Earth 394 00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:32,080 Speaker 1: or nearly spherical earth, the higher you go, the less 395 00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:35,400 Speaker 1: the Earth's curvature blocks you, the larger your field of view. 396 00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:38,480 Speaker 1: And that's exactly what you experience. You go to a skyscraper. 397 00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:41,040 Speaker 1: At the top of a mountain, you can see much further. Okay, 398 00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:42,640 Speaker 1: so I guess the idea is that is that if 399 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:46,399 Speaker 1: the Earth was flat and you were standing at the 400 00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:49,280 Speaker 1: beach and you saw a ship go off and away 401 00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:52,040 Speaker 1: from you, it would just get smaller and smaller and 402 00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:54,840 Speaker 1: smaller and smaller and smaller and smaller and smaller. It 403 00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:57,840 Speaker 1: wouldn't ever disappear from view, that's right, and you could 404 00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:00,680 Speaker 1: eventually see it like doc in Japan or something. Right, 405 00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:04,400 Speaker 1: if you had a super duper telescope. Oh, it would 406 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:07,160 Speaker 1: just look really really really small. But you could technically 407 00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:09,679 Speaker 1: see Japan if the Earth was flat, I mean, Japan 408 00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:12,960 Speaker 1: is close. You'd be limited by basically the air, right, 409 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:15,960 Speaker 1: the air wiggles makes things fuzzy. But yeah, technically you'd 410 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:17,720 Speaker 1: be able to see all the way across the ocean. 411 00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:21,720 Speaker 1: If the Earth was flat. Oh wow, that would be cool. Yeah, 412 00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:23,720 Speaker 1: that would be pretty cool, wouldn't it. It would be 413 00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:27,119 Speaker 1: cool was flat, But I guess it'd be nighttime in Japan. 414 00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:29,560 Speaker 1: That would be awesome. Actually, you could like see different 415 00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:31,920 Speaker 1: time zones. Oh, I see, but even if I take 416 00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:34,240 Speaker 1: a telescope and I look out into the ocean with 417 00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:36,879 Speaker 1: a telescope, I would just at some point see nothing 418 00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:39,600 Speaker 1: because my line aside would just go off into space. 419 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:41,679 Speaker 1: That's right. And if you're on a boat in the 420 00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:44,920 Speaker 1: middle of the ocean, all you can see is water 421 00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:49,920 Speaker 1: because everything else is around the curve of the Earth, right, Okay, 422 00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:53,120 Speaker 1: And then you have one more last um Greek experiment 423 00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:55,840 Speaker 1: you can do right involving sunsets. Yeah. I mean there's 424 00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:58,399 Speaker 1: a long list of reasons, some that we believe the 425 00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:00,760 Speaker 1: Earth is round, but another one is, yeah, sunsets, Like 426 00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:04,720 Speaker 1: how do you explain sunsets on a flat earth? You 427 00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:07,360 Speaker 1: know the models I've seen a flat earth to have, Like, 428 00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:10,159 Speaker 1: I mean, it's kind of ridiculous. But you have this 429 00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:12,280 Speaker 1: flat plane and then you have the Sun which is 430 00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:15,000 Speaker 1: really small compared to the Earth, and it's sort of 431 00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:19,440 Speaker 1: moving around the circular Earth, right for the flat earth 432 00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:22,320 Speaker 1: like a lamb, because like a lamb just going around 433 00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:25,520 Speaker 1: around it. Yeah, and it's like shining like a spotlight, 434 00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:28,360 Speaker 1: like it's directional or something. So you know, I don't 435 00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:30,840 Speaker 1: understand how you get day or night because the Sun 436 00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:33,760 Speaker 1: is a sphere. We can see that it's a sphere, right, 437 00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:36,320 Speaker 1: It's definitely it would shine on the whole surface of 438 00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:37,520 Speaker 1: the Earth all the time. I mean, if you had 439 00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:39,440 Speaker 1: a flat Earth with the sun above it, then you 440 00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:41,720 Speaker 1: would have never had night time unless the sun went 441 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:45,320 Speaker 1: below the flat Earth, in which case every part of 442 00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:47,560 Speaker 1: the Earth would see sunset at the same time, which 443 00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:49,879 Speaker 1: definitely doesn't happen. Okay. So I think the point is 444 00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:53,359 Speaker 1: that even if you are super skeptical of scientists and 445 00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:56,800 Speaker 1: you don't believe anything anyone ever tells you or believe 446 00:22:56,800 --> 00:22:59,560 Speaker 1: any pictures you see, there are still ways that you 447 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:03,200 Speaker 1: could be convinced yourself that the Earth is not flat. 448 00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:05,800 Speaker 1: That's right. And people did these things and they figured 449 00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:08,160 Speaker 1: them out, and that's why people believe the Earth is round, 450 00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:11,119 Speaker 1: even well before we had technology. But now that we 451 00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:14,879 Speaker 1: have amazing technology, it's pretty easy to discover that the 452 00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:17,200 Speaker 1: Earth is round. So the because you know, I grew 453 00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:21,240 Speaker 1: up in um in Panama, and for us, you know, 454 00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:24,960 Speaker 1: Christopher Columbus was like a big deal, and so you know, 455 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:27,040 Speaker 1: as a kid, you just like you always hear like, oh, 456 00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:29,480 Speaker 1: he proved that the Earth was round. But that's um, 457 00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:32,679 Speaker 1: that's a little bit of historical Bologna're right, Yeah, I 458 00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:36,840 Speaker 1: think it was widely spread among anybody who had any education. Uh, 459 00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:39,119 Speaker 1: the belief that the Earth was round was already widely 460 00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:42,800 Speaker 1: spread by then, but I guess he was the first 461 00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:46,000 Speaker 1: or one of the first to really kind of connected physically. 462 00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:48,720 Speaker 1: I mean, I never really understood that argument because Christopher 463 00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:51,960 Speaker 1: Columbus was trying to use the fact that the Earth 464 00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:55,399 Speaker 1: was round to get to India, right, and so he 465 00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:57,560 Speaker 1: thought he got to India. He's like, okay, look, I 466 00:23:57,600 --> 00:23:59,480 Speaker 1: got to India, and therefore the Earth is round. But 467 00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:01,480 Speaker 1: the problem is he didn't get to India, so he 468 00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:04,439 Speaker 1: didn't prove anything, right. He just proved that if you 469 00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:06,160 Speaker 1: get in the in the boat and sail, you get 470 00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:08,240 Speaker 1: to some more land. He didn't really prove anything at all. 471 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:11,080 Speaker 1: I mean, Christopher Columbus, Like, there's so much trouble with 472 00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:14,919 Speaker 1: Christopher Columbus, you know, on top of genocide and miss 473 00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:18,800 Speaker 1: miss naming Americans as Indians and all that sort of stuff, 474 00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:20,399 Speaker 1: but he didn't he didn't really prove the Earth is 475 00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:23,960 Speaker 1: round at all. Okay, but I guess, um, I guess 476 00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:28,560 Speaker 1: we won't get into the politics of it. It's pretty dark. 477 00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:30,560 Speaker 1: But yeah, so alright, so then, um, that's how we 478 00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:32,560 Speaker 1: know that Earth is not flat. And so let's let's 479 00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:36,160 Speaker 1: get into whether the Earth is actually round or not. 480 00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:51,560 Speaker 1: But first let's take a quick break. All right, So 481 00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:54,080 Speaker 1: we talked about how if you were a Greek scientist 482 00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:56,040 Speaker 1: back in the day, you might be able to figure 483 00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:59,600 Speaker 1: out that the Earth is not flat. But yeah, how 484 00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:02,720 Speaker 1: about today, like you know, we we as citizens have 485 00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:07,160 Speaker 1: every day sittings, have access to a little bit more technology. Um, 486 00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:10,359 Speaker 1: so how would how could a scientists today without if 487 00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:14,080 Speaker 1: they didn't believe pictures or other scientists, how could we 488 00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:17,000 Speaker 1: um find out? How can we be be scientists and 489 00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:19,280 Speaker 1: conclude that the Earth is not flat? You mean without 490 00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:22,320 Speaker 1: being Elon Musk and having our own spaceship company and 491 00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:26,480 Speaker 1: going into space ourselves with that being billionaires, let's say 492 00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:29,360 Speaker 1: you just have like, you know, a hundred dollars ten 493 00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:32,560 Speaker 1: dollars in your pocket. Because the billionaire the billionaire demographic 494 00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:35,440 Speaker 1: of our listeners is probably pretty small, right, but if 495 00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:39,080 Speaker 1: we have one, hey, give us a call. Please send 496 00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:41,280 Speaker 1: us an email. All the billionaires out there, please send 497 00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:43,200 Speaker 1: us an email. We want to record an episode from 498 00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:46,760 Speaker 1: space that's right, featuring you. Well, first I want to 499 00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:50,000 Speaker 1: comment on like should you disbelieve other scientists? And again 500 00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:53,800 Speaker 1: it's healthy to be skeptical. There are times when people 501 00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:57,360 Speaker 1: everybody's wrong about something, But let's remember that everybody out 502 00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:00,439 Speaker 1: there doing science is trying to be right, you know, 503 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:02,520 Speaker 1: they want to figure it out. They're not out there 504 00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:04,879 Speaker 1: trying to convince people of things that are not true. 505 00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:08,879 Speaker 1: Like NASA is not lying to people. There's no crazy agenda, 506 00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:12,360 Speaker 1: and it's impossible for that to even be Um, it's 507 00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:15,480 Speaker 1: not practical for that to happen because NASA is filled 508 00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:17,480 Speaker 1: with a bunch of scientists who all want to figure 509 00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:20,080 Speaker 1: out the right answer and share it. So if there 510 00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:23,160 Speaker 1: was some absurd conspiracy to like lie to the public 511 00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:26,640 Speaker 1: for ridiculous reasons about the shape of the Earth, somebody 512 00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:28,359 Speaker 1: out there would just prove it. Somebody out there and 513 00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:31,439 Speaker 1: be like ha ha, look I'm um, I have proof, 514 00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:34,040 Speaker 1: and somebody would would get the credit for that. So 515 00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:36,679 Speaker 1: science is filled with people who want the truth and 516 00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:40,359 Speaker 1: want to share the truth, and sometimes they make honest mistakes. 517 00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:45,480 Speaker 1: But it's it's impossible to imagine a widespread scientific conspiracy. 518 00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:48,040 Speaker 1: I think also, even if you don't believe in the 519 00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:52,840 Speaker 1: altruism of scientists, I always like to think and sit 520 00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:54,760 Speaker 1: tell people that you know, like if you ever meet 521 00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:58,560 Speaker 1: a scientist, each one of them, and maybe you can 522 00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:01,080 Speaker 1: prove me wrong. But like I think, each one each 523 00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:04,119 Speaker 1: scientists out there would love nothing more than to be 524 00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:07,600 Speaker 1: the guy that disproves everybody else. Yeah, exactly, even from 525 00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:10,080 Speaker 1: a cynical point of view, right, they all want the 526 00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:13,760 Speaker 1: glory that I would love to reveal that all of 527 00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:16,040 Speaker 1: science has misunderstood something. I mean, I think I've said 528 00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:19,000 Speaker 1: that on this podcast before. That's my personal scientific fantasies 529 00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:24,200 Speaker 1: to discover something which forces us to rethink foundational ideas. Right, 530 00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:26,720 Speaker 1: that's fantastic. Everybody would love to be in that position. 531 00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:29,520 Speaker 1: And so to prove that the Earth is a different 532 00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:32,960 Speaker 1: shape than everybody thought, Wow, that would be fantastic. So, yeah, 533 00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:35,239 Speaker 1: you're right, from a purely selfish point of view, if 534 00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:40,240 Speaker 1: scientists say something and you know that they're all trying 535 00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:42,560 Speaker 1: to prove each other wrong, you know the fact that 536 00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:47,560 Speaker 1: they agree is like extra extra validity, exactly exactly. But 537 00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:50,080 Speaker 1: imagine that, you know you want to check her for yourself. 538 00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:52,520 Speaker 1: You want to be the scientist to disprove everybody. How 539 00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:54,760 Speaker 1: could you do that? That was your question, And these 540 00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:57,760 Speaker 1: days it's actually not that hard because of the ubiquity 541 00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:01,560 Speaker 1: of basically high resolution cameras. Um, all you need to 542 00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:05,119 Speaker 1: do is take a picture from high enough that you 543 00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:08,879 Speaker 1: can see the curvature of the Earth. And to get 544 00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:11,040 Speaker 1: high enough to like really see the curvature in an 545 00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:14,080 Speaker 1: indisputable way, you need to be like thirty five forty 546 00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:17,560 Speaker 1: forty feet up above the ground to see the curvature 547 00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:19,960 Speaker 1: of the Earth. I guess, you know, um, it's not 548 00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:23,359 Speaker 1: immediately clear what that means. So I guess if you 549 00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:25,680 Speaker 1: go out really really far, like to the moon, you 550 00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:28,440 Speaker 1: would definitely see the Earth is round, right, that's right, 551 00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:31,160 Speaker 1: and but down here it looks flat. And so as 552 00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:33,520 Speaker 1: you keep going up and out, you're going to see 553 00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:36,560 Speaker 1: kind of more more of the rounded shape of the Earth. Exactly. So, 554 00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:40,040 Speaker 1: as you imagine you're floating up from the Earth, right 555 00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:42,880 Speaker 1: first it seems flat, and then you get higher and 556 00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:46,000 Speaker 1: higher up, you're, like you know, at airplane levels, it 557 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:48,520 Speaker 1: still seems mostly flat. But as you zoom out you 558 00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:52,280 Speaker 1: see it more as a planet, unless it's just a surface, right, 559 00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:54,440 Speaker 1: You're zooming away from it to get more perspective on 560 00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:56,720 Speaker 1: the overall shape of it, and then you can start 561 00:28:56,760 --> 00:28:59,280 Speaker 1: to see the overall shape. You can see this curvature, 562 00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:02,720 Speaker 1: and you know, above forty feet or so, it becomes 563 00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:04,960 Speaker 1: pretty clear and you might be thinking, well, how do 564 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:06,800 Speaker 1: I get about forty feet? And the only way to 565 00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:09,400 Speaker 1: do that through an airplane and those windows are weird 566 00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:12,560 Speaker 1: and have curves and whatever, how do I really believe that? Well, 567 00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:14,560 Speaker 1: all you need to do is send your phone up there, 568 00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:17,719 Speaker 1: and folks have done this. You can. You can just 569 00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:20,360 Speaker 1: build a weather balloon, which is basically just a big 570 00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:23,720 Speaker 1: bag of helium or hydrogen, and attach a phone to 571 00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:26,440 Speaker 1: it and it'll go up really really high, you know, 572 00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:29,360 Speaker 1: eighty thou ft a hundred thousand feet basically up to 573 00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:32,040 Speaker 1: near space. And high schoolers have done this. You know, 574 00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:34,480 Speaker 1: you can google for pictures of it. Wait, what what 575 00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:36,200 Speaker 1: do you do? Though? You do? You start like a 576 00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:40,040 Speaker 1: FaceTime conversation and then send it up. There's no service 577 00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:42,720 Speaker 1: up there, but you you know, you start recording and 578 00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:45,080 Speaker 1: you send it up. And then the trick of course, 579 00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:47,800 Speaker 1: is recovering it. Right where does it come down? So 580 00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:50,000 Speaker 1: you just have it like take pictures. Every couple of 581 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:53,440 Speaker 1: seconds it goes up, the balloon, balloon pops, it falls down, 582 00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:56,720 Speaker 1: and then you recover it and you get the pictures. Yeah, exactly. 583 00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:58,720 Speaker 1: You have a little parachute, right, so it doesn't just 584 00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:01,600 Speaker 1: plummet to earth and burn up and re entry and smash. 585 00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:03,720 Speaker 1: And then you get the pictures and they're pretty fantastic 586 00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:06,800 Speaker 1: pictures and it's very clear, and those pictures the curvature 587 00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:08,600 Speaker 1: of the Earth, and they're gorgeous too. I mean, they're 588 00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:11,280 Speaker 1: beautiful pictures. It wouldn't be like an effect of the 589 00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:14,240 Speaker 1: fish eyelands or anything. No, absolutely not. I mean you 590 00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:16,720 Speaker 1: can see it increasing with altitude, right, So it's not 591 00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:19,280 Speaker 1: an artifact. So if you have an iPhone to spare 592 00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:21,840 Speaker 1: and a weather balloon, you could you could discover that 593 00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:24,360 Speaker 1: the Earth is round or or are they right? That's 594 00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:26,640 Speaker 1: kind of the question that we post at the beginning, right, 595 00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:30,560 Speaker 1: is the Earth actually round or not? That's right? And 596 00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:33,200 Speaker 1: so we're pretty sure that is not flat. And if 597 00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:35,000 Speaker 1: you look at pictures some space, you're like, okay, the 598 00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:37,840 Speaker 1: Earth is round, right, it looks pretty round, But let's 599 00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:40,040 Speaker 1: get precise, like do we really mean the Earth is 600 00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:43,280 Speaker 1: like round? Is it a perfect sphere? Well, the key 601 00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:47,280 Speaker 1: is that the Earth is spinning, right, and spinning things 602 00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:51,000 Speaker 1: have extra complications, like if the Earth was not spinning 603 00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:53,920 Speaker 1: it would, it would be perfectly round. You think, if 604 00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:55,720 Speaker 1: the Earth is not spinning, would be much closer to 605 00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:59,640 Speaker 1: perfectly round. Now, perfectly perfectly round is impossible. I mean, 606 00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:03,920 Speaker 1: even if you like sanded the Earth down microscopically, there's 607 00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:06,640 Speaker 1: no way to get all the atoms exactly the same 608 00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:08,600 Speaker 1: distance from the center of the Earth, you know, and 609 00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:13,280 Speaker 1: microscopic level level, perfectly round is impossible, even perfectly around 610 00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:15,400 Speaker 1: it like the you know, the one mile level is 611 00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:18,920 Speaker 1: pretty tough because you've got mountains, right, mountains and valleys 612 00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:21,600 Speaker 1: and all sorts of stuff, um, and eventually those will 613 00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:24,600 Speaker 1: you know, roll down into rubble. But then thanks to 614 00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:27,640 Speaker 1: play technoics, you'll get new mountains. So the one two 615 00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:30,200 Speaker 1: mile level, you know, the level even of like Mount Everest, 616 00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:32,360 Speaker 1: it's pretty hard to have it be perfectly flat. But 617 00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:35,120 Speaker 1: there's an even bigger effect, which is because the Earth 618 00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:39,239 Speaker 1: is spinning, and so it's it's not perfectly symmetric anymore. Right, 619 00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:41,040 Speaker 1: the Earth is round, it seems you might think like 620 00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:44,040 Speaker 1: every direction should be the same, but it's not, because 621 00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:46,280 Speaker 1: the Earth is spinning on a specific axis, and that 622 00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:50,080 Speaker 1: spinning has this effect of pushing things away from that axis. 623 00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:52,400 Speaker 1: The north, south axis. It's like if you're on a 624 00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:55,880 Speaker 1: merry go round and somebody spins it, you feel this 625 00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:58,280 Speaker 1: this effect that's trying to throw you off the merry 626 00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:00,560 Speaker 1: go round, right, unless you're holding on. And so the 627 00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:03,080 Speaker 1: same way if you if you spin up, if you 628 00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:05,520 Speaker 1: take a planet that's not spinning and you spin it, 629 00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:08,040 Speaker 1: it's gonna make it a little bit flatter and a 630 00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:11,720 Speaker 1: little bit of sort of blobbier. Right, It's gonna make 631 00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:14,440 Speaker 1: things further away from the center at the equator and 632 00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:17,080 Speaker 1: a little closer in at the polls. Is it that 633 00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:19,640 Speaker 1: it's pushing the stuff out in the on the equator 634 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:22,200 Speaker 1: outwards or is it that maybe the stuff on the 635 00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:25,600 Speaker 1: equator doesn't feel as much gravity as the stuff in 636 00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:27,840 Speaker 1: the north and South pole. No, it's an effect of 637 00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:30,800 Speaker 1: the rotation. It's like if you take um, you know, pizza, 638 00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:33,520 Speaker 1: you're spinning to take a pizza and you spin it, right, 639 00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:36,280 Speaker 1: it gets bigger. Why does it get bigger? Right? Because 640 00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:40,160 Speaker 1: it's the spinning. The spinning has this effective forces centrifugal 641 00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:43,800 Speaker 1: force um that pushes things out and it's an artifact 642 00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:46,040 Speaker 1: of the spinning. So like if if I'm feeling a 643 00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:48,800 Speaker 1: little bit round and padded in my middle section here. 644 00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:52,880 Speaker 1: It could be because I've been spinning too much. There 645 00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:58,160 Speaker 1: are other explanations, but the has really simpler explanations. Too 646 00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:02,800 Speaker 1: many banana cream pies, don't know. Yeah, but if you 647 00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:05,080 Speaker 1: take something, you know, take like a ball of dough, 648 00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:08,120 Speaker 1: and you spin it, then it will flatten, right, it 649 00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:11,120 Speaker 1: will flatten, and it'll get um wider and in the 650 00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:14,080 Speaker 1: middle and and uh and shorter on the top, oh, 651 00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:16,680 Speaker 1: get shorter. And so that's what's happened to the Earth. 652 00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:19,560 Speaker 1: That's what happened to Earth. Yeah, but you know, don't 653 00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:21,960 Speaker 1: be alarmed as it formed or after it formed, do 654 00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:24,840 Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Or like it's always been oblong, 655 00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:27,960 Speaker 1: it's always been not round. That's a great question. It's 656 00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:30,320 Speaker 1: definitely true as long as the Earth has been spinning. 657 00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:32,640 Speaker 1: And I'm pretty sure the Earth has been spinning since 658 00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:35,840 Speaker 1: it was formed, because it's been angular momentum um. But 659 00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:39,400 Speaker 1: that must have changed, like for example, on the planet Uranus. Right, 660 00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:42,080 Speaker 1: Urinus was hit by something really big that knocked it 661 00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:44,959 Speaker 1: off at spinning in a different direction. That probably changed 662 00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:49,400 Speaker 1: the shape of Urinus also, so that's a cool question. Yeah, yes, 663 00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:50,840 Speaker 1: So if you change the spin of a planet, it 664 00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:53,160 Speaker 1: will change its shape. And aren't their theories that say 665 00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:55,480 Speaker 1: that our moon. We had a whole podcast about it, 666 00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:57,720 Speaker 1: by the way, you guys can look at it, look 667 00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:00,520 Speaker 1: for it in the arch in the archive. But it 668 00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:02,600 Speaker 1: isn't there a theory that maybe we were hit by 669 00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:04,400 Speaker 1: a giant rock and that's how the moon form, and 670 00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:07,400 Speaker 1: so maybe our ax has also changed. Yeah, it could be. 671 00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:09,880 Speaker 1: It could be we were spending a faster or slower 672 00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:12,560 Speaker 1: before that massive collision and that would change the shape 673 00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:15,240 Speaker 1: of the Earth. But you know, taking a moon size 674 00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:17,920 Speaker 1: chunk also changes the shape of the Earth. So that 675 00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:21,080 Speaker 1: was a big event in terms of shape of the Earth. Um. 676 00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:23,319 Speaker 1: But people might be wondering out there, like how big 677 00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:25,960 Speaker 1: an effect is this is, like, you know, because if 678 00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:28,160 Speaker 1: you look at the pictures from the from space, the 679 00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:30,719 Speaker 1: Earth looks pretty round. I mean maybe people haven't done 680 00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:33,359 Speaker 1: like precise measurements of those photographs, but it does look 681 00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:36,520 Speaker 1: pretty round, and it is pretty round. The answer is 682 00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:39,920 Speaker 1: that the at the equator, the distance to the center 683 00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:43,080 Speaker 1: is about thirteen miles more than it is at the polls. 684 00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:46,719 Speaker 1: So the Earth is wider than it is taller by 685 00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:50,200 Speaker 1: thirteen miles by thirteen miles and on one hand, that's 686 00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:53,640 Speaker 1: a big difference in each direction. Each direction. Yeah, from radius. 687 00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:56,440 Speaker 1: On one hand, that's a big difference because like some 688 00:34:56,520 --> 00:34:58,759 Speaker 1: of the biggest features on Earth, like Mount Everest, are 689 00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:00,839 Speaker 1: only a few miles high, so this is like two 690 00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:04,520 Speaker 1: or three times bigger than that. Right. On the other hand, 691 00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:06,719 Speaker 1: it's pretty tiny because you know, the radius of the 692 00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:10,040 Speaker 1: Earth is thousands of miles, so it's a really pretty 693 00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:12,279 Speaker 1: small effect. Like if you were holding the Earth in 694 00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:14,440 Speaker 1: your hand, could you tell this difference if you like 695 00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:18,240 Speaker 1: roll the Earth against a um along a smooth surface, 696 00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:22,319 Speaker 1: when you notice it not rolling perfectly smoothly. I'm not sure. 697 00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:24,640 Speaker 1: I think we would, we who live on the surface 698 00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:26,920 Speaker 1: of Earth would notice it for sure. I'm trying to 699 00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:29,480 Speaker 1: be that cosmic alien that's playing games with us, right, 700 00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:33,759 Speaker 1: it's playing tricks. Imagine the galactus, your galactus just there. 701 00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:36,480 Speaker 1: Um yeah, thanks. From from that point of view, I 702 00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:38,480 Speaker 1: think it'd be pretty hard to tell. You know, I 703 00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:41,960 Speaker 1: don't know. For example, like a very high quality poolball, 704 00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:45,600 Speaker 1: you know, like billiard ball, Um, what's the level of 705 00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:47,839 Speaker 1: sphericity of that and how does it compare to the Earth. 706 00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:51,879 Speaker 1: That's a good question. Like a professional great billiard ball ball. 707 00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:54,960 Speaker 1: Is it actually also even a sphere? Yeah, I don't 708 00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:57,719 Speaker 1: even know. It might be more spherical mirath, or it 709 00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:00,720 Speaker 1: might be spherical within the same tolerance, right, because thirteen 710 00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:03,160 Speaker 1: miles is a small fraction of the radius of the Earth. 711 00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:05,440 Speaker 1: And you're talking about kind of like the average distance 712 00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:07,400 Speaker 1: to the center of the Earth, right, because there are 713 00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:09,719 Speaker 1: sort of dips and valleys and oceans and stuff, but 714 00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:12,600 Speaker 1: like the average that's right. Yeah, Well, I guess the 715 00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:16,200 Speaker 1: question is why isn't it more oblong? You know what 716 00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:19,120 Speaker 1: I mean? Like the Earth is speling pretty fast at 717 00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:21,920 Speaker 1: least once a day that I know of, and that's 718 00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:24,120 Speaker 1: a lot of earth to move around. Why is it 719 00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:26,920 Speaker 1: it more like opal shaped? Yeah? Well that depends on 720 00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:29,600 Speaker 1: sort of the internal strength of the earth. Right. If 721 00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:31,840 Speaker 1: the Earth was made out of like, I don't know, 722 00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:35,200 Speaker 1: cotton candy or something, and you spun it this fast, 723 00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:37,839 Speaker 1: then probably a bunch of the cotton candy would get 724 00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:41,520 Speaker 1: flung out in the space. Um, but it holds itself together, right, 725 00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:43,600 Speaker 1: depends on the strength of the material. Like if the 726 00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:45,920 Speaker 1: Earth was made out of pizza dough, we would be 727 00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:51,920 Speaker 1: much flatter, that's right. And also there's gravity, right, Gravity 728 00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:54,319 Speaker 1: does like to keep things together. So there's a bunch 729 00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:55,719 Speaker 1: of things at play there. But you have the Earth 730 00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:57,360 Speaker 1: is made out of pizza dough, it would have a 731 00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:00,000 Speaker 1: different shape than it does today. Let's do that experience. 732 00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:04,400 Speaker 1: Let's build a planet sized blob of pizza, just just 733 00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:07,000 Speaker 1: to find out that's right. Let's make a piece of 734 00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:11,080 Speaker 1: shop for the galactuses of the universe. Any listening billionaires, 735 00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:13,640 Speaker 1: that's where you should send your funds, and then also 736 00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:16,040 Speaker 1: send us into space to go eat some of this pizza. 737 00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:20,960 Speaker 1: That's right. That's gonna take a lot of sauce. Al right. Well, 738 00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:23,239 Speaker 1: so that that's the answer to the question. Is the 739 00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:28,600 Speaker 1: Earth round? The answer is no, right, it's around dead right, 740 00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:33,560 Speaker 1: round dish, but almost sort around. It's rounded, more rounded 741 00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:35,840 Speaker 1: in the middle of the Earth is definitely not flat, 742 00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:38,160 Speaker 1: but I mean it's definitely not flat, that's right, Like 743 00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:41,520 Speaker 1: many of us, the Earth is definitely not flat. Definitely 744 00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:46,160 Speaker 1: not flat. So not flat, oh my god, definitely not flat. Um, 745 00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:49,799 Speaker 1: it's almost perfectly spherical. And that well. The other way 746 00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:52,000 Speaker 1: you can just test that the Earth is round is 747 00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:53,879 Speaker 1: just go off in one direction, right and just get 748 00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:55,800 Speaker 1: on a plane and keep going. That's right, you know. 749 00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:58,040 Speaker 1: The flat earthers have an answer to that. They say, well, 750 00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:00,400 Speaker 1: the Earth is flat, um, and if you move in 751 00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:03,200 Speaker 1: a circle, you're actually moving in a circle on that surface, 752 00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:06,400 Speaker 1: which is crazy. It doesn't make any sense because if 753 00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:08,839 Speaker 1: I see, there's an answer for you, well, but then 754 00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:10,920 Speaker 1: you know, no, those answers make sense. Like if the 755 00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:12,960 Speaker 1: Earth was flat, they put the north pole at the 756 00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:16,480 Speaker 1: center and the South pole is like this wall of 757 00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:19,960 Speaker 1: ice around the circular flat Earth. But if that were true, 758 00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:23,600 Speaker 1: then that would really stretch out distances between stuff in 759 00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:26,600 Speaker 1: the southern hemisphere because the sun the hemisphere would become huge. 760 00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:29,160 Speaker 1: In the northern hemisphere would be compressed, and so you 761 00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:31,520 Speaker 1: would definitely notice, like if you try to sail on 762 00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:35,080 Speaker 1: a ship from you know, Chile to China, you would 763 00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:37,320 Speaker 1: notice that it took you way longer than it should. 764 00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:40,520 Speaker 1: Shipping captains and airplane pilots would definitely notice if the 765 00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:42,920 Speaker 1: Earth was flat, all right, Well, and there's then then 766 00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:46,560 Speaker 1: there's a whole totally different question, which is is space flat? Right? 767 00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:49,680 Speaker 1: Like we could be a rounded Earth on a flat 768 00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:53,120 Speaker 1: on flat space, right, or a rounded Earth on a 769 00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:56,640 Speaker 1: round space. That's right, And I'm definitely a flat spacer. 770 00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:02,920 Speaker 1: Were a round earther put a flat space. That's right, 771 00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:06,120 Speaker 1: No space seems to be flat, and that's really weird, right, 772 00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:08,600 Speaker 1: we don't understand why space is flat. For those of 773 00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:10,319 Speaker 1: you who don't even know what that means, check out 774 00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:13,120 Speaker 1: our podcast on the shape and size of space. Space 775 00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:16,000 Speaker 1: is a weird, crazy thing and do all sorts of 776 00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:20,280 Speaker 1: stuff you never imagined, including being curved or not being curved. 777 00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:22,600 Speaker 1: And you might be able to send your iPhone out 778 00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:26,239 Speaker 1: into the universe to find out that's right, leave the 779 00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:30,040 Speaker 1: round Earth and go into flat space and learn some things. Um. 780 00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:31,840 Speaker 1: But this is what I love about these questions, you know, 781 00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:33,640 Speaker 1: they tell us so much about where we are in 782 00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:36,319 Speaker 1: the world. And to discover that the Earth is round 783 00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:38,440 Speaker 1: and it looks just like all those other planets must 784 00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:40,680 Speaker 1: have been a huge shock to the people who discovered that, right, 785 00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:45,160 Speaker 1: to understand something so deep about this, this situation we 786 00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:48,040 Speaker 1: find ourselves in. Those are the wonderful moments in science, 787 00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:50,440 Speaker 1: right when you get these flashes of insight and reveal 788 00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:53,640 Speaker 1: something about the context of the human experience. Yeah, or 789 00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:58,320 Speaker 1: like challenges everyday conceptions or ideas that you might have 790 00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:01,000 Speaker 1: right exactly. The first guid figure out the Earth was round. 791 00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:03,240 Speaker 1: Probably everybody scoffed at him and thought, oh, he's crazy. 792 00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:09,080 Speaker 1: He's one of those round earthers. Right. The Internet, the 793 00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:12,440 Speaker 1: Greek Internet, the Marble net, I think that a marble 794 00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:16,200 Speaker 1: net back in Asian Greece. Yeah, they're all just talking 795 00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:21,759 Speaker 1: under walkie talkies, posting trolling comments. It's too bad we lost. 796 00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:24,080 Speaker 1: I mean, the Greeks developed the walkie talkie technology and 797 00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:25,600 Speaker 1: then we lost in the Dark Ages. We had to 798 00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:28,920 Speaker 1: reinvent it. Oh my gosh. Yeah, man, we had to 799 00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:33,280 Speaker 1: reinvent the walkie talkie. Yeah, exactly. So much of human 800 00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:36,640 Speaker 1: civilization was lost. Um no, but I think it's it's 801 00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:38,959 Speaker 1: wonderful when we have those moments when we understand something 802 00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:42,600 Speaker 1: deep about the human experience. All right, well, if you 803 00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:46,160 Speaker 1: are a flat earther, um, we're sorry that this podcast 804 00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:49,360 Speaker 1: disappointed you, And if you were around Earth, we're also sorry. 805 00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:54,000 Speaker 1: Sorry that you're disappointed that the Earth is not round. 806 00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:57,480 Speaker 1: But if you're a pizza ball earther, then congratulations, you're right, 807 00:40:57,640 --> 00:40:59,480 Speaker 1: the Earth is a pizza ball. And if you were 808 00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:02,080 Speaker 1: a flat there and you listen to this podcast and 809 00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:05,319 Speaker 1: you were convinced link, congratulations for having an open mind. 810 00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:08,480 Speaker 1: We'll hope you guys enjoyed that. Thank you for listening, 811 00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:18,880 Speaker 1: See you next time. If you still have a question 812 00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:22,359 Speaker 1: after listening to all these explanations, please drop us a line. 813 00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:24,560 Speaker 1: We'd love to hear from you. You can find us 814 00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:28,359 Speaker 1: at Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram at Daniel and Jorge That's 815 00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:31,759 Speaker 1: one Word, or email us at Feedback at Daniel and 816 00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:35,320 Speaker 1: Jorge dot com. Thanks for listening, and remember that Daniel 817 00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:37,880 Speaker 1: and Jorge Explain the Universe is a production of I 818 00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:41,520 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. For more podcast from my Heart Radio, visit 819 00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:45,040 Speaker 1: the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 820 00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:46,680 Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows.