1 00:00:00,640 --> 00:00:05,000 Speaker 1: Hello, you and me, both listeners. I'm currently traveling abroad, 2 00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:08,480 Speaker 1: so while I don't have a new episode for you 3 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:11,440 Speaker 1: this week, I want to share with you one of 4 00:00:11,480 --> 00:00:15,960 Speaker 1: my favorite episodes from last season in case you missed 5 00:00:15,960 --> 00:00:19,119 Speaker 1: it the first time. I hope you enjoy listening to 6 00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:24,200 Speaker 1: my conversations with Brandy Carlisle and Andre Dea Shields as 7 00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:28,200 Speaker 1: much as I enjoyed talking to them. I find them 8 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:32,760 Speaker 1: both so inspirational and don't we need that right now? 9 00:00:33,440 --> 00:00:36,520 Speaker 1: And stay tuned for next week when I'll be back 10 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:42,279 Speaker 1: with a new episode. I'm Hillary Clinton, and this is 11 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:46,199 Speaker 1: you and me. Both Believe in yourself. You know, it's 12 00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:49,120 Speaker 1: a piece of advice we hear a lot, but for 13 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:52,280 Speaker 1: many of us, it takes years, if not a lifetime, 14 00:00:52,520 --> 00:00:56,760 Speaker 1: to actually get there. And then there are those rare folks, 15 00:00:56,920 --> 00:01:02,320 Speaker 1: immensely talented and hard working, somehow always knew that they 16 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:14,720 Speaker 1: would be somebody. Today, I have the pleasure of speaking 17 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:18,000 Speaker 1: with two people who believed in themselves from the get go. 18 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:23,560 Speaker 1: Later we'll hear from the incredibly talented actor, director, and 19 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:30,280 Speaker 1: choreographer Andre Deshields, but first I'm talking to multiple Grammy 20 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:36,840 Speaker 1: Award winning singer and songwriter Brandy Carlisle. I first discovered 21 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:40,200 Speaker 1: Brandy back in twenty nineteen when she performed her song 22 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:44,319 Speaker 1: The Joke at the Grammy Awards. That year, she was 23 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:49,880 Speaker 1: nominated for six, yes, six Grammys for her album By 24 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:53,920 Speaker 1: the Way I Forgive You. I immediately tracked down as 25 00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:56,480 Speaker 1: much of her music as I could. I've been a 26 00:01:56,520 --> 00:02:01,480 Speaker 1: fan ever since. Brandy grew up in Washington State with 27 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:04,840 Speaker 1: very young parents who struggled to make a living and 28 00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 1: provide a stable home, but she was also surrounded by 29 00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:13,440 Speaker 1: a lot of love and a lot of music. She's 30 00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:17,320 Speaker 1: drawn on those roots to build a beautiful family of 31 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:21,280 Speaker 1: her own with her wife Catherine, and their two daughters, 32 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:26,160 Speaker 1: Evangeline and Elijah. Brandy writes about all of this in 33 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:30,440 Speaker 1: her memoir titled Broken Horses, and that's where I wanted 34 00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:34,120 Speaker 1: to start our conversation by asking her what it was 35 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:37,720 Speaker 1: like to pull up those memories, the good, the bad, 36 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:44,799 Speaker 1: the wonderful and write this incredibly open, revealing and compelling book. 37 00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:48,880 Speaker 2: I had always kind of mined my past for experience 38 00:02:48,919 --> 00:02:51,720 Speaker 2: and songwriting and things like that, but just in little 39 00:02:51,760 --> 00:02:55,000 Speaker 2: random verse without the detail, you know. But when I 40 00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:57,760 Speaker 2: actually really sat down and kind of meditated on it. 41 00:02:58,200 --> 00:03:01,680 Speaker 2: Everything came back smells and floral prints on couches and 42 00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:05,240 Speaker 2: you know, whatever vehicle we happened to have at that time, 43 00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:08,440 Speaker 2: and just my childhood became really clear and really vivid, 44 00:03:08,440 --> 00:03:11,799 Speaker 2: and it poured out of me. I didn't hesitate. I 45 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:13,919 Speaker 2: didn't worry about what I was saying about mom or 46 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:16,280 Speaker 2: dad or you know, my brother and sister, or the 47 00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:18,160 Speaker 2: way that we lived, or what was going on and 48 00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:20,800 Speaker 2: our lives at that time. I didn't think about embarrassment 49 00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:22,120 Speaker 2: because I think in the back of my mind I 50 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:23,880 Speaker 2: knew I could always go and take anything out, I 51 00:03:23,880 --> 00:03:25,200 Speaker 2: could edit anything. 52 00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:30,200 Speaker 1: And then I just didn't From what I read, not 53 00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:35,360 Speaker 1: only about your parents, but your grandparents aunts, uncles, Yeah, 54 00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:37,240 Speaker 1: there was a lot of love, there was a lot 55 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:40,960 Speaker 1: of fun, and there was a lot of unpredictability, instability 56 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:45,800 Speaker 1: and chaos. Yeah, that's true. How would you describe your 57 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:49,600 Speaker 1: mom and your dad? You emphasize how young they were. 58 00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:53,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, they were, and in some ways and that I mean, 59 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:57,320 Speaker 2: this is a compliment. Are very young, and there's an 60 00:03:57,400 --> 00:04:01,160 Speaker 2: energy about them and the endless opportunity for adventure and 61 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:06,080 Speaker 2: fun and honestly mostly chaos. There was always this kind 62 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:09,720 Speaker 2: of undercurrent of like, well, we're different and we don't 63 00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:11,760 Speaker 2: have to do things the way other people do them. 64 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:14,040 Speaker 2: And it was like a little bit like that film, 65 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:16,800 Speaker 2: you know, Captain Fantastic. There was a lot of late 66 00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:19,520 Speaker 2: night discussion, and I was privy to a lot of 67 00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:20,960 Speaker 2: things that I don't know if I needed to be 68 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:24,120 Speaker 2: privy to. But I was also given great wisdom and 69 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:27,479 Speaker 2: insight at a really young age, and for some reason, 70 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:30,400 Speaker 2: I just feel like I knew what to do with it. 71 00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:34,560 Speaker 2: And that kind of narrative of like we're different, we 72 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:38,279 Speaker 2: live different was what made not being at the same schools, 73 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:40,480 Speaker 2: or having a lot of different houses, or a little 74 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 2: bit of upheaval not just okay, but what I thought 75 00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:48,920 Speaker 2: would be a preferable way to grow upright. And looking 76 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:50,720 Speaker 2: back on it, I don't know that I don't feel 77 00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:53,679 Speaker 2: that way now. I feel a pull all the time 78 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:56,679 Speaker 2: to raise my kids eccentrically with a little bit of chaos, 79 00:04:56,720 --> 00:04:58,400 Speaker 2: a little bit of spontaneity, a little bit of we 80 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:01,920 Speaker 2: don't know what's going to happen, and my wife makes 81 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:04,320 Speaker 2: me resistant, but. 82 00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:06,320 Speaker 1: I don't want to leave your childhood yet. Because you 83 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:11,320 Speaker 1: can also describe the very serious illness you had as 84 00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:15,360 Speaker 1: what a four year old? Yeah, can you talk about that? Yeah? 85 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:20,200 Speaker 2: When I was four years old, I contracted meninjacock meningitis 86 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:24,760 Speaker 2: and presented as really, really sick. But my mother was 87 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:27,000 Speaker 2: really young, I want to say, like twenty at the time, 88 00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:30,760 Speaker 2: and knew right away that something was wrong. But she 89 00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:32,400 Speaker 2: was the kind of mom where she thought something was 90 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:34,960 Speaker 2: wrong all the time. You know, she had the speed 91 00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:37,159 Speaker 2: dial if they even had that, you know in nineteen 92 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:40,320 Speaker 2: eighty what was this been, nineteen eighty five two four nurse, 93 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:44,279 Speaker 2: And she told my dad that something was really wrong, 94 00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:47,320 Speaker 2: and you know, he didn't believe her, and my mom 95 00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:49,360 Speaker 2: was on the phone with two four nurse and two 96 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:51,719 Speaker 2: four nurse asked my mom to have me touch my 97 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:53,359 Speaker 2: chin to my chest, which I guess is like a 98 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:56,680 Speaker 2: telltale sign that somebody could have meningitis, and it made 99 00:05:56,720 --> 00:05:59,599 Speaker 2: me pass out, and I just remember waking up in 100 00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:01,560 Speaker 2: the backseat of the car on my way to the 101 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:05,000 Speaker 2: emergency room and wound up being in the hospital in 102 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:07,920 Speaker 2: a coma for quite some time before I came to 103 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:11,200 Speaker 2: and didn't get out of there till after my fifth birthday. 104 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 2: And there's still a bit of trauma I think for 105 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:18,320 Speaker 2: both my parents but mostly I think my mother about 106 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:21,720 Speaker 2: thinking that I wasn't going to pull through that, and 107 00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:25,560 Speaker 2: it gave me a sense of specialness. You know, I 108 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:27,719 Speaker 2: was the first grandchild on both sides of the family, 109 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:31,440 Speaker 2: and everybody had this kind of Brandy's got a mission thing, 110 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:34,440 Speaker 2: and it gave me a quite inflated sense of self importance. 111 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:40,960 Speaker 1: What was your earliest memory of making or listening to music, 112 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:43,400 Speaker 1: because the other part of the book, which I love 113 00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:47,560 Speaker 1: is that you had a somewhat musical family, and I 114 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:50,520 Speaker 1: see pictures in the book of you as a really 115 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:54,320 Speaker 1: little kid, all dressed up, You're on stage, you're singing. 116 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:55,800 Speaker 1: What are your earliest memories? 117 00:06:56,640 --> 00:06:59,240 Speaker 2: There's music on both sides of my family, country music 118 00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:05,520 Speaker 2: and bluegrassm My dad's father played dobro and followed bluegrass 119 00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:08,000 Speaker 2: bands around in his RV, and I didn't get to 120 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:11,400 Speaker 2: spend much time with him musically. He was a quiet 121 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:14,280 Speaker 2: guy that you know. But on my mom's side of 122 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:16,800 Speaker 2: the family, her dad was a cigar salesman and a 123 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:19,640 Speaker 2: country music singer and yodeler, and he was a very 124 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:23,720 Speaker 2: outward personality, big influence that I think about in here 125 00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:25,600 Speaker 2: in my head all the time to this day. But 126 00:07:25,640 --> 00:07:28,480 Speaker 2: he died really young of als, which is the worst 127 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:33,200 Speaker 2: disease in the world. And when he died, kind of 128 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:35,160 Speaker 2: the last thing he did, whether he knew it or not, 129 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:39,360 Speaker 2: was light of fire in my mother to continue on 130 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:40,200 Speaker 2: the music. 131 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 1: And she did. 132 00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:43,240 Speaker 2: She took all that grief and that little bit of 133 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:47,920 Speaker 2: money and got a PA system and put together a 134 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:52,160 Speaker 2: band and started singing and thought to include me and 135 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:54,520 Speaker 2: my brother. And so I was like seven or eight 136 00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:56,800 Speaker 2: years old the first time I got on stage and 137 00:07:56,880 --> 00:07:59,800 Speaker 2: sang a Roseanne Cash song Tennessee flat Top Box at 138 00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:02,280 Speaker 2: the place called the Northwest grand Ole Opry. I just 139 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:03,200 Speaker 2: want to be a cowgirl. 140 00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:08,080 Speaker 1: I loved that. Well. I also really love your mother's 141 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:11,880 Speaker 1: gutsiness that she got that PA system and put herself 142 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:15,000 Speaker 1: up there. That is really making yourself vulnerable. And I 143 00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:19,160 Speaker 1: think it's another real tribute to her as a mom 144 00:08:19,320 --> 00:08:20,960 Speaker 1: that she knew to include you. 145 00:08:21,280 --> 00:08:24,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, and she was really good. She looked great, huge hair. 146 00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:27,160 Speaker 2: You know, she'd fixed my hair and put our clothes 147 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:30,160 Speaker 2: together and everything, and she just yeah, she'd always tell 148 00:08:30,160 --> 00:08:32,560 Speaker 2: me she'd be sitting the front righter, just going move Brandy, 149 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:35,080 Speaker 2: move your body. Stop wrapping the mic cord around your hand. 150 00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:41,680 Speaker 1: Oh God, we're taking a quick break. Stay with us. 151 00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:54,960 Speaker 1: The other thing about your upbringing is that you know, 152 00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:58,800 Speaker 1: you grew up in a religious family, in a religious community, 153 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:06,280 Speaker 1: and I really like the way that faith and spirituality 154 00:09:07,040 --> 00:09:12,000 Speaker 1: run through your story like yours. Yeah, like mine exactly, 155 00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:17,240 Speaker 1: and how it evolves. And it was so touching to 156 00:09:17,320 --> 00:09:23,880 Speaker 1: me and heartbreaking to read your description about a pastor 157 00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:28,400 Speaker 1: refusing to baptize you. I guess because he knew you 158 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:34,520 Speaker 1: were gay and insisted that you renounce, literally renounce yourself 159 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:38,160 Speaker 1: in order to be baptized, and you rightly refuse to 160 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:39,560 Speaker 1: do that. Can you tell that story? 161 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:42,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, he really knew I was gay. Like that's really 162 00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:46,160 Speaker 2: one of the hardest nuances about that stories, that he 163 00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:48,960 Speaker 2: really knew I was gay. Like, I was totally unapologetic 164 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:51,520 Speaker 2: about it. I presented that way. I brought my little 165 00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:55,480 Speaker 2: girlfriend to church for some reason. I don't know why. 166 00:09:55,559 --> 00:09:59,160 Speaker 2: I didn't expect that it was in the sermons, it 167 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:01,600 Speaker 2: was in the subtext. Next, you know, I did have 168 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:04,079 Speaker 2: a sense of audacity that I can't I would love 169 00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:08,280 Speaker 2: to reconnect with actually, but yeah, he did, And there 170 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:10,640 Speaker 2: was like a well, the Baptists are very big, by 171 00:10:10,679 --> 00:10:14,640 Speaker 2: the way, on public declarations. Oh yes, right, converting to 172 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:18,800 Speaker 2: possible public humiliation. And I already liked being on stage, 173 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:21,160 Speaker 2: so you know, I went up to the front of 174 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:23,160 Speaker 2: the church and on one Sunday and said I'd like 175 00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:27,480 Speaker 2: to be baptized, and was applauded and hugged and given 176 00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:29,600 Speaker 2: a schedule of, you know, going to lunch with the 177 00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:31,760 Speaker 2: pastor and learning the things I need to learn in 178 00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:34,920 Speaker 2: the scriptures and understanding what was going to take place, 179 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:38,200 Speaker 2: inviting people, and then got to the church that day 180 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:41,520 Speaker 2: to be baptized, and our town and our family and 181 00:10:41,559 --> 00:10:43,840 Speaker 2: our friends kind of filled the church, and the pastor 182 00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:47,480 Speaker 2: at the last minute asked me, which was I thought 183 00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:52,480 Speaker 2: was really strange, asked me if I quote unquote practiced homosexuality, 184 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:55,720 Speaker 2: and I just remember just furrowed brow looking at him. 185 00:10:55,760 --> 00:10:58,000 Speaker 2: I said, you know, I'm gay. I'm coming to church 186 00:10:58,040 --> 00:10:59,840 Speaker 2: with my girlfriend, you know, and we go we go 187 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:02,760 Speaker 2: to pizza Hut yesterday, like you know, you know, and 188 00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:05,000 Speaker 2: chose that moment to tell me that he wasn't going 189 00:11:05,080 --> 00:11:06,680 Speaker 2: to baptize me. And I had to kind of run 190 00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:09,360 Speaker 2: out the church in front of everyone. And it's probably 191 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:14,960 Speaker 2: one of the biggest humiliations in my life without trying 192 00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:18,120 Speaker 2: to wrap it up into an attractive box and say 193 00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:22,160 Speaker 2: that everything's fine now. Without that experience, I wouldn't have 194 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:25,400 Speaker 2: known how much support I actually had, how upset The 195 00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:28,160 Speaker 2: people that came to see that happen for me were 196 00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:32,480 Speaker 2: holp set. My dad was, and I always felt I 197 00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:35,559 Speaker 2: was kind of gay nineties accepted, you know, kind of 198 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:37,520 Speaker 2: like we accept this, but don't put it in our 199 00:11:37,559 --> 00:11:41,720 Speaker 2: face kind of thing. Until that day and everybody becoming 200 00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:44,960 Speaker 2: so upset, I felt, you know, more seen in that 201 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:47,360 Speaker 2: way than I ever had before, also more rejected than 202 00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:51,120 Speaker 2: I ever had before. But it pushed me into another 203 00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:54,679 Speaker 2: life that I needed to be pushed into. 204 00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:58,960 Speaker 1: But also from that time forward, you really threw yourself 205 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:03,120 Speaker 1: into your mute music and thinking back to being put 206 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:06,240 Speaker 1: on the stage as this, you know, little girl, three 207 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:11,480 Speaker 1: decades of performing and of writing. How has your relationship 208 00:12:11,559 --> 00:12:17,280 Speaker 1: to music evolved over that period of time. Well, I 209 00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:17,640 Speaker 1: don't know. 210 00:12:17,679 --> 00:12:20,080 Speaker 2: I mean, I think that's the moment that music became 211 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:24,280 Speaker 2: mine and I just I had to really separate my 212 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:27,600 Speaker 2: soul from some things, you know, And so I started 213 00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:32,319 Speaker 2: getting interested in getting on airplane. I started getting interested 214 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:35,599 Speaker 2: in going to a big city, meeting different kinds of 215 00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:39,640 Speaker 2: people and less and less interested in country music. I 216 00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:43,040 Speaker 2: remember that night of my botched baptism. I call it 217 00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:48,760 Speaker 2: putting my little CD player Jeff Buckley's Grace on repeat 218 00:12:48,800 --> 00:12:51,280 Speaker 2: on Hallelujah, just over and over and over and over again, 219 00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:55,880 Speaker 2: and it occurring to me like I want to leave, yeah, 220 00:12:55,880 --> 00:12:57,160 Speaker 2: And I want to write. I want to write a 221 00:12:57,200 --> 00:12:58,839 Speaker 2: song like this. I don't care if it's a twelve 222 00:12:58,920 --> 00:12:59,640 Speaker 2: minute song. 223 00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:05,559 Speaker 1: A longer song for a longer story. But I also 224 00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:11,640 Speaker 1: love the way that you found some extraordinary music icons 225 00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:17,800 Speaker 1: that became mentors. I mean the kind of relationship that 226 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:21,600 Speaker 1: you describe with Alton John from a far, far distance. 227 00:13:21,679 --> 00:13:25,240 Speaker 1: There you are in Washington State, Elton's you know, in 228 00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:29,600 Speaker 1: England or Atlanta, wherever he might be, and you are 229 00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:34,440 Speaker 1: discovering this extraordinary human being, to say nothing of his, 230 00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:37,280 Speaker 1: you know, almost cosmic talent. 231 00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:40,520 Speaker 2: I fall in love with Elton John over a six 232 00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:44,400 Speaker 2: fifth sixth grade book report about Ryan White, never hearing 233 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:48,840 Speaker 2: a note. I loved him because of his contribution to 234 00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:51,839 Speaker 2: this boy's life. Who died I think it was in 235 00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:55,199 Speaker 2: nineteen ninety one. It's in the nineties. He died of aids. 236 00:13:55,559 --> 00:13:58,560 Speaker 2: He had hemophilia. He contracted AIDS through a blood transfusion. 237 00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:00,360 Speaker 2: I did a book report on him and school. I 238 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:01,480 Speaker 2: chose the book myself. 239 00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:03,240 Speaker 1: You didn't even know what the book was about. 240 00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:06,120 Speaker 2: I just saw a cute boy on the book and 241 00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:08,280 Speaker 2: I picked it up in the school library and I 242 00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:10,040 Speaker 2: did a book report. And in the end of the book, 243 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:14,199 Speaker 2: he befriends this British gay rock star. He's being politicized, 244 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:17,440 Speaker 2: he's being asked to become the poster child for the 245 00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:21,320 Speaker 2: church as a person affected by sin in the world 246 00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:24,600 Speaker 2: created by homosexual men. And this was a subtext that 247 00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:27,760 Speaker 2: I had been taught in church and was thinking about 248 00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:29,800 Speaker 2: this and talking about this a lot in my own home. 249 00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:34,440 Speaker 2: And here's this new perspective in a book, Thank God. 250 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:37,400 Speaker 2: And in the end he meets this rock star, and 251 00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:38,880 Speaker 2: this rock star has got a couple of songs that 252 00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:40,560 Speaker 2: are mentioned in the book, and he sings a song 253 00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:43,920 Speaker 2: at this kid's funeral called Skyline Pigeon. And I went 254 00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:46,960 Speaker 2: to the King County Library and checked out the CD 255 00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:49,520 Speaker 2: here and now Elton John CD a couple other Elton 256 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:51,840 Speaker 2: John c d's in a book by Philip Norman Elton John, 257 00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:54,800 Speaker 2: Elton John and I dove into this rock star, and 258 00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:56,760 Speaker 2: before I ever heard him sing, I was already obsessed 259 00:14:56,800 --> 00:14:59,200 Speaker 2: with him. And then I heard Skyline Pigeon, and then 260 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:01,400 Speaker 2: I heard Funeral for a Friend and Benny and the Jets, 261 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:04,960 Speaker 2: and I just I went in to everything Elton John. 262 00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:07,560 Speaker 2: By the time I was like fourteen, there wasn't a 263 00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:09,640 Speaker 2: square inch of my bedroom walls that weren't covered with 264 00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:15,520 Speaker 2: Elton John memorabilia. I made homemade Elton John jewelry, and 265 00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:19,760 Speaker 2: I began playing piano. My parents got me a eighty 266 00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 2: dollars toys r us Cassio keyboard and totally changed my life. 267 00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:26,320 Speaker 2: And yeah, now he's like, he's my friend. 268 00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:30,240 Speaker 1: He is your friend. But Ryan White died in nineteen 269 00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:36,920 Speaker 1: ninety and he had such a an amazing effect on 270 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:38,160 Speaker 1: so many people. 271 00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:38,600 Speaker 3: You know. 272 00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:42,200 Speaker 1: There eventually was a piece of legislation, the Ryan White Act, 273 00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:46,600 Speaker 1: to provide more support on resources for people living with 274 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:53,680 Speaker 1: HIV AIDS, and Elton just connected so immediately with this, 275 00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:58,080 Speaker 1: you know, young boy from Indiana. But neither Ryan nor 276 00:15:58,200 --> 00:16:02,000 Speaker 1: his mother ever allowed people if they could stop it 277 00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:06,360 Speaker 1: using them in a negative way. I mean, they were 278 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:11,280 Speaker 1: big hearted, they were open minded, and I want to 279 00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:14,800 Speaker 1: just make one other point, you got that book about 280 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:20,000 Speaker 1: Ryan White in your school library. There are people right 281 00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:22,800 Speaker 1: now who want to take a book like that out 282 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:27,800 Speaker 1: of public school libraries. You know, impressionable children shouldn't be 283 00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:31,880 Speaker 1: learning about Ryan White. You know. It's just another perfect 284 00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:35,920 Speaker 1: example among countless examples of why, you know, we have 285 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:39,160 Speaker 1: to stand up for the right of kids to you know, 286 00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:42,720 Speaker 1: seek out and find information, and obviously a school library 287 00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:45,600 Speaker 1: is one of the best ways to do that. When 288 00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:47,880 Speaker 1: and how did you finally meet Elton in person? 289 00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:51,000 Speaker 2: First of all, that's a really really good point. And 290 00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:53,480 Speaker 2: books like that that I had access to and my 291 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:55,640 Speaker 2: school sculpted a lot of things about my life, and 292 00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:58,120 Speaker 2: that's just one of the many that gave me, you know, 293 00:16:58,240 --> 00:17:01,880 Speaker 2: the worldview that propelled me forward in really really big ways. 294 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:04,639 Speaker 2: So I love that you made that point. What was 295 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:08,800 Speaker 2: the second question, Yeah, When and where did you meet Elton? Okay, 296 00:17:08,840 --> 00:17:11,760 Speaker 2: So I met Elton just like you'd hope I would, 297 00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:18,600 Speaker 2: in a Las Vegas casino basement recording studio. He called 298 00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:20,720 Speaker 2: me like ten years prior to that, or it was 299 00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:22,800 Speaker 2: me five years prior to that when I put out 300 00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:24,840 Speaker 2: the story, but I hadn't met him yet, and I 301 00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:26,920 Speaker 2: always wanted to meet him. I wrote him a letter 302 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:29,359 Speaker 2: when I made my album give Up the Ghost, and 303 00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:31,320 Speaker 2: asked him to play piano in one of my songs, 304 00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:33,760 Speaker 2: and he just he called me up and said, yeah, 305 00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:37,240 Speaker 2: can you get to Vegas? So I did. Oh, and 306 00:17:37,560 --> 00:17:39,760 Speaker 2: I just never forget it because I remember coming down 307 00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:42,520 Speaker 2: this corridor and I could hear him talking, and I 308 00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:45,840 Speaker 2: had all of the every live VHS tape that he 309 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:49,040 Speaker 2: had ever recorded, every interview, and I'm like, oh my god, 310 00:17:49,119 --> 00:17:51,760 Speaker 2: that's Elton. I'm gonna walk around the corner and I'm 311 00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:54,800 Speaker 2: gonna see Elton John sitting there. And I did, and 312 00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:56,560 Speaker 2: he was sitting there in a tracksuit, and he just 313 00:17:56,600 --> 00:17:58,919 Speaker 2: gave me an enormous hug and then stayed with me 314 00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:01,399 Speaker 2: all day for four hours, just talked to me about music, 315 00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:04,680 Speaker 2: just gave me everything that I could have ever hoped 316 00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:09,639 Speaker 2: to be given by meeting my very worthy hero. And 317 00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:11,320 Speaker 2: by the time I got home, he'd sent me one 318 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:14,199 Speaker 2: hundred CDs with sticky notes. 319 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:19,720 Speaker 1: Oh oh, talk about the day that you found out 320 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:24,040 Speaker 1: you were the most nominated woman of the twenty nineteen Grammys. 321 00:18:24,359 --> 00:18:27,520 Speaker 1: Described that because to me, it just blended so much 322 00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:29,480 Speaker 1: about what your life is like right now. 323 00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:32,080 Speaker 2: I mean it was the middle of the night because 324 00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:34,399 Speaker 2: we're on the West coast and I just got the 325 00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:39,600 Speaker 2: phone call that from relative obscurity. In terms of the Grammys, 326 00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:43,600 Speaker 2: I had been nominated for six of them, and I 327 00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:45,359 Speaker 2: was just in total disbelief. I knew it was going 328 00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:47,159 Speaker 2: to be a watershed moment. I knew it was going 329 00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:50,240 Speaker 2: to change my life, and it really did. Mean it 330 00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:53,040 Speaker 2: was my publicistant friend Asha, She's just like, they just 331 00:18:53,119 --> 00:18:54,240 Speaker 2: kept saying your name. 332 00:18:54,359 --> 00:18:54,520 Speaker 3: You know. 333 00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:56,760 Speaker 2: I wasn't even awake. It was pitch dark, and I 334 00:18:56,800 --> 00:19:00,240 Speaker 2: woke up everybody in my house. But you know, I mean, 335 00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:03,440 Speaker 2: you know, because you're a Grammy winner, right, Yeah, that's 336 00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:05,919 Speaker 2: right for the spoken word, that's true for the spoken 337 00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:07,960 Speaker 2: where's your Grammy? I'm looking for it in the background. 338 00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:11,360 Speaker 1: I don't see it. I have it in our library. 339 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:16,359 Speaker 1: It's part of history. Okay, Well, before we go, I 340 00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:19,960 Speaker 1: have to ask you. I know you love fishing, and 341 00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:24,080 Speaker 1: you know you write in the book nothing's really ever 342 00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:30,480 Speaker 1: got a hold of me the way fishing and music have. Okay, 343 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:35,040 Speaker 1: what is the biggest fish you've ever caught? And was 344 00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:37,480 Speaker 1: it the same feeling you had when you got all 345 00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:38,200 Speaker 1: those Grammys. 346 00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:43,080 Speaker 2: It was the same feeling, I mean, nearly identical, because, 347 00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:47,359 Speaker 2: as I said in the book, fishing is merely an 348 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:49,520 Speaker 2: attempt to connect to something that you know is there 349 00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:53,520 Speaker 2: but can't see a perpetual series of occasions for hope. 350 00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:59,040 Speaker 2: The biggest fish I ever caught was in Alaska on 351 00:19:59,080 --> 00:20:02,760 Speaker 2: the Kenai River. It's a forty three pound king salmon. 352 00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:04,520 Speaker 1: That's one big fish. 353 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:05,239 Speaker 3: You know. 354 00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:10,679 Speaker 1: I've actually fished for salmon in Alaska, and those fish 355 00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:14,960 Speaker 1: are big. They are big, that's right. And they're delicious too. 356 00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:17,199 Speaker 1: Did they pack your fish and prepare it so that 357 00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:19,399 Speaker 1: you could go and eat it later? I prepared it. 358 00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:20,680 Speaker 1: You prepared it? 359 00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:24,639 Speaker 2: No, girl, But you know something about that? 360 00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:27,720 Speaker 1: Huh oh yeah, Oh my gosh. But I also love 361 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:30,800 Speaker 1: I mean, your definition of fishing is almost like a 362 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:33,639 Speaker 1: perfect definition of faith. I'm going to remember that. I 363 00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:36,720 Speaker 1: think that that's exactly what I parallel it with. Well, 364 00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:39,720 Speaker 1: Randy Carlia, I cannot thank you enough. This was such 365 00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:43,640 Speaker 1: a true delight. Do you have any parting words or 366 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:46,800 Speaker 1: any yeah, I singing words or anything you want to 367 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:47,520 Speaker 1: leave us with. 368 00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:50,879 Speaker 2: I cannot tell you how much talking to you today 369 00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:54,040 Speaker 2: has meant to me, and I almost can't do anything 370 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:55,719 Speaker 2: else for the rest of the day. Now, I just 371 00:20:56,359 --> 00:20:58,840 Speaker 2: I think that you are such a special person. You're 372 00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:00,560 Speaker 2: such a gift to the world and a gift in 373 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:03,360 Speaker 2: my life. You know the song we keep skimming over, 374 00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:06,280 Speaker 2: the joke that I sang at the Grammys. I wrote 375 00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:10,359 Speaker 2: that first line in the second verse about you. Oh, 376 00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:12,080 Speaker 2: I'm getting over a cult, so I'm gonna do my best. 377 00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:15,720 Speaker 2: You get discouraged, don't you. 378 00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:16,240 Speaker 3: Girl. 379 00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:20,240 Speaker 2: It's your brother's world for a little. 380 00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:24,120 Speaker 1: While, Longer, a little while. 381 00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:28,560 Speaker 2: Just a little while, younger, not too much, Thank you, 382 00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:29,560 Speaker 2: Thank you. 383 00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:43,280 Speaker 1: Randy Carlyle's memoir is Broken Horses. One of my favorite 384 00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:47,360 Speaker 1: shows on Broadway in recent years is the Tony Award 385 00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:53,119 Speaker 1: winning Best Musical Hades Town. In this modern retelling of 386 00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:58,880 Speaker 1: Orpheus and Iriticy, the character of Hermes, messenger to the gods, 387 00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:02,639 Speaker 1: carries us through the entire show, and who better to 388 00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:08,160 Speaker 1: play a god than the larger than life personality Andre Deshields. 389 00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:13,479 Speaker 1: Following a shutdown during the pandemic, Hadestown is up and 390 00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:17,679 Speaker 1: running again with Andrea at the helm. But this is 391 00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:22,440 Speaker 1: just the latest chapter in his long and glorious history. 392 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:27,560 Speaker 1: At age seventy six. Andre has been performing in the 393 00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:33,280 Speaker 1: theater for over fifty years, starting with his professional debut 394 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:38,440 Speaker 1: in the hit rock musical Hair Back in nineteen sixty 395 00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:41,840 Speaker 1: nine and I hate to tell you that I actually 396 00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:46,920 Speaker 1: saw it way back then. But since then he's appeared 397 00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:50,479 Speaker 1: on film and TV and in more musicals like The 398 00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:55,720 Speaker 1: Whiz and Ain't Misbehavin. Three Tony Award nominations and one 399 00:22:56,080 --> 00:23:01,320 Speaker 1: win later, He's truly a living legend of the stage. 400 00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:04,840 Speaker 1: Andre was born in the nineteen forties and grew up 401 00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:09,840 Speaker 1: in Baltimore as the ninth of eleven siblings. His mother 402 00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:13,959 Speaker 1: was a domestic worker, his father was a tailor. The 403 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:18,840 Speaker 1: stories he tells of how he got from there to here, 404 00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:23,760 Speaker 1: always believing in himself along the way, or an inspiration 405 00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:28,560 Speaker 1: to anyone with a dream of making it, of making 406 00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:32,199 Speaker 1: something that you really can be proud of. I was 407 00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:38,120 Speaker 1: so delighted to speak with him. Good morning, Oh, good morning. 408 00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:40,760 Speaker 1: I love your red background. Wow. 409 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:44,359 Speaker 3: We may not know this, it's my aura. 410 00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:49,760 Speaker 1: I can understand that, my friend. You know. I was privileged, 411 00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:52,800 Speaker 1: as you know, to see you in Hadestown, for which 412 00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:57,239 Speaker 1: you won a Tony in twenty nineteen. Yes, as you 413 00:23:57,359 --> 00:24:02,320 Speaker 1: marked your fiftieth anniversary of working on the stage, and 414 00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:05,080 Speaker 1: I want to go back to the beginning because I 415 00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:08,280 Speaker 1: want our listeners to have a little idea of where 416 00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:13,240 Speaker 1: you come from, what your roots are. I think it's 417 00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:16,840 Speaker 1: really a great American story, but it's more attribute to 418 00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:21,119 Speaker 1: your energy and your resilience and your determination in your aura. 419 00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:24,840 Speaker 1: So what type of kid were you? Andre? Were you shy? 420 00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:29,280 Speaker 1: Were you somebody who liked attention? I know you were 421 00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:30,600 Speaker 1: one of eleven kids. 422 00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:34,960 Speaker 3: My roots are in Baltimore, Maryland, and I would not 423 00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:42,480 Speaker 3: describe myself as shy. I would describe myself as secretly ambitious. 424 00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:50,160 Speaker 3: I come from meager beginnings and that was my impetus 425 00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:55,639 Speaker 3: to achieve. There were very few of us who lived 426 00:24:55,800 --> 00:25:00,960 Speaker 3: in the innermost of the inner cities in Baltimore who 427 00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:06,239 Speaker 3: dared to dream. We were not encouraged to dream. We 428 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:10,440 Speaker 3: were not encouraged to be ambitious. We were not encouraged 429 00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:14,840 Speaker 3: to think that we could have a slice of the 430 00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:21,919 Speaker 3: vaunted American pie. But that was my first conscious thoughts. 431 00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:26,560 Speaker 3: I want my slice of the American pie. 432 00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:31,320 Speaker 1: Did anyone in your family know about your dream? Encourage 433 00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:31,760 Speaker 1: your dream? 434 00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:36,800 Speaker 3: Yes, everyone knew about my dream. I shared it with everyone. 435 00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:44,000 Speaker 3: I wanted to be Sammy Davis Junior, who arguingly is 436 00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:50,440 Speaker 3: the greatest entertainer of the tween kidh century. However, the 437 00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:55,240 Speaker 3: response was, oh, you must be out of your mind. 438 00:25:56,480 --> 00:26:02,920 Speaker 3: So when I didn't get the biscerport, I thought, well, 439 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:07,919 Speaker 3: let me put this in my vest close to my heart. 440 00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:11,560 Speaker 3: Let me keep it there so it wouldn't be sullied. 441 00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:16,520 Speaker 1: So Andre, tell us about your parents. They clearly had 442 00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:20,200 Speaker 1: some kind of influence on you, as all parents do, 443 00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:22,200 Speaker 1: one way or the other, and tell us about that. 444 00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:28,119 Speaker 3: When I was old enough to have an adult conversation 445 00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:33,000 Speaker 3: with my mother and father, my mother shared with me 446 00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:36,480 Speaker 3: that her life's dream was to be a chorus girl. 447 00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:41,959 Speaker 3: And I thought what she said? Yes, she didn't use 448 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:45,560 Speaker 3: the term dancers. She said chorus girl, my parents having 449 00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:48,960 Speaker 3: been born around the turn of the twentieth century. And 450 00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:56,520 Speaker 3: I said, so what happened? Her response was her father 451 00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:05,080 Speaker 3: said to her, colored daughter of mine is going to 452 00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:09,640 Speaker 3: shuffle her way through life. We've hardly shuffled our way 453 00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:14,639 Speaker 3: off the plantation. Now that is very meaningful for me, 454 00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:21,040 Speaker 3: because my maternal grandfather was the son of his master. 455 00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:26,720 Speaker 3: So I decided, with that information I should ask my 456 00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:34,520 Speaker 3: father amazingly, but in retrospect not amazingly at all. His 457 00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:38,040 Speaker 3: response was his life dream was he wanted to be 458 00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:41,679 Speaker 3: a singer. He had a beautiful tone of voice, and 459 00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:44,840 Speaker 3: he sang in church, and he had a club that 460 00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:48,399 Speaker 3: he sang with. And I said, well, what happened to 461 00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:55,480 Speaker 3: that dream? He said, his father, my paternal grandfather, said, 462 00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:59,679 Speaker 3: how do you expect to be a responsible husband? And 463 00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:06,280 Speaker 3: father was such an irresponsible career. I tell that story 464 00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:13,520 Speaker 3: because what happened is that both my parents deferred their dreams. 465 00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:20,960 Speaker 3: I believe that I am the manifestation of those deferred dreams, 466 00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:27,439 Speaker 3: because from the morning on a cold January day that 467 00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:32,200 Speaker 3: I was evicted from my mother's womb, that was imprinted 468 00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:38,280 Speaker 3: on my spirit. You are the manifestation of the deferred 469 00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:44,040 Speaker 3: dreams of your parents. I've never had a question about 470 00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:45,320 Speaker 3: my path in life. 471 00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:47,080 Speaker 1: That's a great manifestation. 472 00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:56,640 Speaker 3: I knew that in order to overcome these invisible but seeming, 473 00:28:56,720 --> 00:29:02,080 Speaker 3: the insurmountable walls that we build around ourselves when we 474 00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:09,960 Speaker 3: are constantly told that we cannot achieve, and that there 475 00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:16,480 Speaker 3: is a demarcation in the society that says you stay 476 00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:19,680 Speaker 3: where you are, there is no mobility. 477 00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:24,280 Speaker 1: Yeah right, yeah right, And you know, sadly it is 478 00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:28,240 Speaker 1: as you just said, sometimes from the people that you're 479 00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:32,320 Speaker 1: living with, people who love you, who are afraid. 480 00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:34,280 Speaker 3: For you, and they want to protect you. 481 00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:37,880 Speaker 1: They want to protect you, and they unfortunately often evidence 482 00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:40,440 Speaker 1: that in a way that you know, kind of tries 483 00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:42,240 Speaker 1: to pull you down or push you back so that 484 00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:44,800 Speaker 1: you don't get out into that world where you will 485 00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:47,120 Speaker 1: get hurt. And then of course on the receiving end, 486 00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:51,520 Speaker 1: you've got people who are you know, not expecting much 487 00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:55,920 Speaker 1: or who are outright, you know, prejudiced and biased against 488 00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:56,880 Speaker 1: you and your dream. 489 00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:03,520 Speaker 3: I want to say something about protecting people. I know 490 00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:09,520 Speaker 3: it is meant for good, but you cannot protect an 491 00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:15,880 Speaker 3: individual from himself. You cannot protect an individual from his ambition. 492 00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:21,920 Speaker 3: You cannot protect an individual from his destiny. You have 493 00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:29,160 Speaker 3: to encourage an individual, especially when he's young. You must say, 494 00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:35,640 Speaker 3: go forth and be the most authentic individual that you can. 495 00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:39,600 Speaker 1: I want to ask one last question about this. So 496 00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:43,520 Speaker 1: when was the first time you performed in public and 497 00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:46,800 Speaker 1: you knew that the dream was not just a dream 498 00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:49,600 Speaker 1: you kept close to your heart, it could be your reality. 499 00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:56,440 Speaker 3: After the dream that I was protecting, I had the epiphany, 500 00:30:57,240 --> 00:31:00,320 Speaker 3: and that was seeing the film Cabin in the Guy 501 00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:05,960 Speaker 3: John Bubbles Sublette. When I saw his performance in Cabin 502 00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:10,640 Speaker 3: in the Sky, the quiet voice that lives in the 503 00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:13,760 Speaker 3: core of our souls and speaks to us only the truth, 504 00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:18,720 Speaker 3: said to me, Andre, that's what you're going to do. 505 00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:23,680 Speaker 1: Because all of a sudden you had an epiphany. Because 506 00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:26,040 Speaker 1: you know, there's that old saying you can't be what 507 00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:29,720 Speaker 1: you can't see exactly, and you saw it. 508 00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:35,720 Speaker 3: I saw it. So as a young precocious Negro boy 509 00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:40,240 Speaker 3: in Baltimore. You know about the society of friends, Yes, 510 00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:44,680 Speaker 3: I do. They came to me through the Central Scholarship 511 00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:49,920 Speaker 3: Bureau and said, you're a young man with potential. We 512 00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:54,200 Speaker 3: would like to offer you a scholarship to go to college. 513 00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:58,400 Speaker 3: The condition is that you must attend the college of 514 00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:03,960 Speaker 3: our choice. I jumped at the opportunity, the first child 515 00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:11,000 Speaker 3: in the family to go to college. Wilmington College in Wilmington, Ohio, 516 00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:18,360 Speaker 3: a pristine, intimate Quaker school. And when I was going 517 00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:21,080 Speaker 3: to college, and I know you remember this, it was 518 00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:26,480 Speaker 3: derry girl to do your junior year abroad. I did 519 00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:32,240 Speaker 3: my junior year in Denmark, and when I arrived in Denmark, 520 00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:37,760 Speaker 3: I was received as the very opposite to the way 521 00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:42,360 Speaker 3: I had been treated in Baltimore. In Baltimore, in many ways, 522 00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:48,080 Speaker 3: I was discoming the earth, and I'm not exaggerating. In Denmark, 523 00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:52,000 Speaker 3: I was royalty. Can I touch your skin? Can I 524 00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:53,880 Speaker 3: touch your Can I touch your hair? 525 00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:55,880 Speaker 1: I'm not kidding. 526 00:32:56,040 --> 00:33:01,240 Speaker 3: There was in nineteen sixty seven. It blew through my mind. 527 00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:05,920 Speaker 3: It opened my eyes to not only the place in 528 00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:09,239 Speaker 3: which I had arrived, but the place from where I 529 00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:14,840 Speaker 3: had come. And at that time, all the major cities 530 00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:20,720 Speaker 3: were experiencing their urban insurrections, and I thought to myself, 531 00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:27,200 Speaker 3: that's where I come from. So when I return, I 532 00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:33,920 Speaker 3: have to leave that pristine Quaker environment and go to 533 00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:39,600 Speaker 3: where the veil was being ripped from the eyes of 534 00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:44,280 Speaker 3: political America. So I ended up at the University of Wisconsin, 535 00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:47,640 Speaker 3: one of the hot beds of political change. 536 00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:54,440 Speaker 1: You did jump right in, right right. But what an 537 00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:59,360 Speaker 1: incredible realization that you had about yourself and your life 538 00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:01,840 Speaker 1: as a relativetively young person. I mean, you're still what 539 00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:05,600 Speaker 1: nineteen twenty years old when you decide exactly nineteen, I've 540 00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:09,080 Speaker 1: got to get out into this world that's waiting for me. 541 00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:11,759 Speaker 1: I've got an idea. Now where I came from and 542 00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:16,320 Speaker 1: where I want to go. You graduated from Wisconsin Universe 543 00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:19,680 Speaker 1: consin to Madison in I think nineteen seventy right. 544 00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:23,799 Speaker 3: And the month I graduated, I won a position in 545 00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:25,120 Speaker 3: Tom o'horgan's hair. 546 00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:27,840 Speaker 1: That's so great. 547 00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:33,120 Speaker 3: That was my first professional performance. Now that's the equation 548 00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:41,600 Speaker 3: I want to share with anybody who's curious about ambition, accomplishment, destiny, 549 00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:47,720 Speaker 3: any of those huge ideas. First you must have the dream. Second, 550 00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:50,520 Speaker 3: you must have the epiphany. The third part of the 551 00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:56,279 Speaker 3: equation is once on that Thursday, when someone comes to 552 00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:59,919 Speaker 3: you and puts a check in your hand and pay 553 00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:05,280 Speaker 3: for the dream that has now become the work. That's 554 00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:11,880 Speaker 3: the equation. From there, your destiny will rise up, shake 555 00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:14,239 Speaker 3: your hand and say welcome. I've been waiting for you 556 00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:15,280 Speaker 3: all this time. 557 00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:22,319 Speaker 1: But the epiphany and the opportunity also requires work. Once 558 00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:26,440 Speaker 1: you were offered that position, you know in hair, you 559 00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:27,719 Speaker 1: had to put in the work, didn't you. 560 00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:32,560 Speaker 3: That is correct, But the work starts long before the 561 00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:34,120 Speaker 3: paycheck arrives. 562 00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:36,680 Speaker 1: You know. It strikes me that it was in the 563 00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:41,640 Speaker 1: Wiz that you had your incredible breakout national moment, and 564 00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:46,319 Speaker 1: how appropriate it is that a musical retelling of the 565 00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:49,759 Speaker 1: Wizard of Oz through Black culture and music would be 566 00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:54,319 Speaker 1: the groundbreaking success it was, and also your opportunity to 567 00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:58,400 Speaker 1: manifest that dream. How did you end up in the Wiz? 568 00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:03,120 Speaker 3: So I had gotten my first professional gig in Chicago. 569 00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:08,320 Speaker 3: We're in the early seventies now, and we are creating 570 00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:15,399 Speaker 3: an off loop theatrical experience, which is tantamount to what 571 00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:19,359 Speaker 3: we call off Broadway. And a group of us from 572 00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:24,160 Speaker 3: the University of Wisconsin founded the Organic Theater Company and 573 00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:31,960 Speaker 3: created a show called Warp Warp. It's the science fiction show. 574 00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:35,440 Speaker 3: Producer saw it and thought, wow, this would go well 575 00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:38,719 Speaker 3: in New York. He brought us to New York in 576 00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:44,400 Speaker 3: nineteen seventy three. We were sumarily dismissed by the New 577 00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:50,760 Speaker 3: York critics and the consensus was, listen, you dirty foot hippies, 578 00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:57,000 Speaker 3: go back to Chicago now. When the company returned to Chicago, 579 00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:01,520 Speaker 3: I said, guys, I love you all. You've been my 580 00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:04,920 Speaker 3: family for four years. But now that I'm in New York, 581 00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:10,239 Speaker 3: I'm going to take my chances here. And by the 582 00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:14,200 Speaker 3: grace of four women friends of mine who were in 583 00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:18,840 Speaker 3: New York working, and these four women would allow me 584 00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:22,400 Speaker 3: to couch surf, take care of my cat, and you 585 00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:24,960 Speaker 3: can sleep on my couch. Wash my dishes and you 586 00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:27,000 Speaker 3: can sleep on my couch, and that sort of thing. 587 00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:30,560 Speaker 3: As my mother would say. I didn't have a pot 588 00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:32,640 Speaker 3: to piss in or a window to throw it out of. 589 00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:39,200 Speaker 3: But I was right. But I was in the camelot. 590 00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:43,279 Speaker 3: All I had to do was to discover my coat 591 00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:46,840 Speaker 3: of arms, if you will. Ken Harper, the producer of 592 00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:51,480 Speaker 3: The Whiz, cast a net. We are looking for the 593 00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:56,040 Speaker 3: actress who would essay these roles. I got an audition. 594 00:37:56,880 --> 00:38:00,239 Speaker 3: I was cut for the scarecrow. I was cut for 595 00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:04,200 Speaker 3: the Lion. I was cut for the tin Man. Didn't 596 00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:07,840 Speaker 3: matter to me because I wanted to be the Wizard. 597 00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:13,320 Speaker 3: But I had to beg for it. And Ken Harper 598 00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:16,680 Speaker 3: said to me, all right, I think he thought he 599 00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:19,960 Speaker 3: was getting rid of me. Will allow you to audition 600 00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:24,440 Speaker 3: for the Wiz. Now. When I got the call back, 601 00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:30,440 Speaker 3: I had pulled my hair out to it's Jimmy Hendricks length. 602 00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:37,560 Speaker 3: I was wearing my five inch silver study platforms. I 603 00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:41,200 Speaker 3: was wearing my hot pants. I was wearing my halter 604 00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:44,960 Speaker 3: that had love embroidered all over it. I was wearing 605 00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:53,680 Speaker 3: my misie earrings. I was glorious and I went in 606 00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:58,120 Speaker 3: and I sang and I think this is part of 607 00:38:58,200 --> 00:38:59,680 Speaker 3: your growing up too. 608 00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:04,200 Speaker 1: Midnight hour. Oh perfect right. 609 00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:09,000 Speaker 3: I'm going a way till the midnight hour. So I 610 00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:11,560 Speaker 3: get to the end of the song and Charlie Small's, 611 00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:16,440 Speaker 3: who was the composer for The Wiz, stands up and shouts, 612 00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:18,040 Speaker 3: that's my Wiz. 613 00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:21,520 Speaker 1: Hallelujah, hallelujah. 614 00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:25,600 Speaker 3: That's what I'm talking about. When you do the proper preparation, 615 00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:31,040 Speaker 3: the destiny unfolds in one golden step after the next, 616 00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:36,239 Speaker 3: not immediately. It takes time. But if you continue to 617 00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:43,279 Speaker 3: apply yourself, if you continue to cultivate patience, if you 618 00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:48,680 Speaker 3: continue to know yourself and be yourself and understand that 619 00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:55,400 Speaker 3: authenticity is everything, you will receive the blessing that has 620 00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:57,239 Speaker 3: your name written on it. 621 00:39:57,680 --> 00:40:01,000 Speaker 1: I love that you know, you know. So much of 622 00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:06,240 Speaker 1: what happens in live theater is ephemeral, but The Wiz 623 00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:10,279 Speaker 1: was one of those moments where it was just like 624 00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:16,400 Speaker 1: a great earthquake came down from on high and shook 625 00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:20,239 Speaker 1: the foundation of American musical theater. In fact, I think 626 00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:24,000 Speaker 1: your costume is now in the Smithsonian that is correct. 627 00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:28,840 Speaker 1: National Museum of African American History and Culture. Did you 628 00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:31,760 Speaker 1: know when you were in the Wiz it was literally 629 00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:33,800 Speaker 1: a moment of destiny for the culture. 630 00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:39,480 Speaker 3: Yes, we all knew as a community that we were 631 00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:47,400 Speaker 3: part of a tectonic change in a paradigm, because prior 632 00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:53,280 Speaker 3: to the Whiz, the only impact that black culture had 633 00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:59,920 Speaker 3: on Broadway had come many years earlier with Lorraine Hansby 634 00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:07,400 Speaker 3: Raising in the Sun. It was time that the traditionally 635 00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:14,400 Speaker 3: inhospitable terrain of the Great White Way underwent the conditioning 636 00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:20,880 Speaker 3: for what we now call diversity, equity, and inclusion. We 637 00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:26,080 Speaker 3: didn't use those terms in the early seventies, but we 638 00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:33,920 Speaker 3: knew that we were setting the stage for a change. 639 00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:40,520 Speaker 3: And here's the miracle of the Whiz. Stephanie Mills played 640 00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:47,040 Speaker 3: the role of Dorothy. Once you see Dorothy as a 641 00:41:47,080 --> 00:41:53,160 Speaker 3: young girl of color, that is what universalizes the message 642 00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:58,840 Speaker 3: of the Wiz, which is there's no place like home. 643 00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:01,880 Speaker 3: That's a great lesson to learn. That's one of the 644 00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:05,920 Speaker 3: greatest lessons to learn in someone's life. It is we 645 00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:10,560 Speaker 3: go searching for our purpose everywhere, and then at some 646 00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:15,839 Speaker 3: point we learn, oh, there's no place like home. As 647 00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:20,080 Speaker 3: long as that was the exclusive domain of a young, 648 00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:27,680 Speaker 3: although brilliant white girl. It didn't resonate for the majority 649 00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:35,520 Speaker 3: of young people. Once Dorothy has melanin in her skin, 650 00:42:36,200 --> 00:42:40,919 Speaker 3: then that message of there's no place like home becomes. 651 00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:58,399 Speaker 1: Universal, becomes a message for everybody, everybody. We'll be right back. Well. 652 00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:00,839 Speaker 1: You know. The other thing that, of course I love, 653 00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:05,719 Speaker 1: is in Hadestown, where you are again starring, which I 654 00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:12,440 Speaker 1: also think of as a groundbreaking musical. You're playing a 655 00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:17,840 Speaker 1: Greek god, Kermes, and you are omniscient. You are someone 656 00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:20,960 Speaker 1: who is like leading the whole audience and all of 657 00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:25,680 Speaker 1: us through the story. I loved your performance. Thank you, 658 00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:29,719 Speaker 1: Thank you, absolutely just was knocked out when I think 659 00:43:29,719 --> 00:43:34,360 Speaker 1: about it. Though. You are now again because after the pandemic, 660 00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:39,080 Speaker 1: Hadestown reopened, so you're back on the stage. You are, 661 00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:41,799 Speaker 1: I think, still doing eight shows a week. 662 00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:42,600 Speaker 3: Eight shows. 663 00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:46,680 Speaker 1: Look, that's not an easy schedule at any age, any age. 664 00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:50,000 Speaker 1: And when you accepted your Tony Award, I'll never forget 665 00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:55,160 Speaker 1: this in twenty nineteen, you shared with the audience your 666 00:43:55,360 --> 00:44:00,840 Speaker 1: three Carnival rules for sustainability and long ngevity, and although 667 00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:03,840 Speaker 1: you put it in the context of the arts, I 668 00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:07,520 Speaker 1: would say I think these are pretty good rules for anybody. 669 00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:11,719 Speaker 1: Could you share them with our listeners on this podcast. 670 00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:15,240 Speaker 3: I'd be happy to the context in which I learned 671 00:44:15,239 --> 00:44:20,360 Speaker 3: it was the arts. Anything you want to do, anything 672 00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:25,759 Speaker 3: that you want to master, will be enhanced if the 673 00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:29,719 Speaker 3: arts are part of your preparation. You don't have to 674 00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:33,000 Speaker 3: become an actor. You don't have to dance, you don't 675 00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:37,440 Speaker 3: have to sing. You just have to bebble the hard 676 00:44:37,680 --> 00:44:45,040 Speaker 3: edges by saying or understanding that you are an artist. 677 00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:50,480 Speaker 3: You are a good mother, you have cultivated the art 678 00:44:50,560 --> 00:44:55,560 Speaker 3: of parenthood. You're a good construction worker. You've mastered the 679 00:44:55,680 --> 00:45:01,880 Speaker 3: art of building things. You are a good cleaner, garbage collector, 680 00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:08,040 Speaker 3: you have massive the art of sanitation. Cultivate the artistry 681 00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:11,319 Speaker 3: of whatever it is you do, and then you can 682 00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:17,239 Speaker 3: apply these three cardinal rules Colnal rule number one. Surround 683 00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:22,520 Speaker 3: yourself with people whose eyes light up when they see 684 00:45:22,560 --> 00:45:29,319 Speaker 3: you coming Coldinal rule number two. Slowly is the fastest 685 00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:33,600 Speaker 3: way to get to where you want to be. Colon 686 00:45:33,680 --> 00:45:38,040 Speaker 3: the rule number three. The top of one mountain is 687 00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:42,320 Speaker 3: the bottom of the next, so keep climbing. 688 00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:49,080 Speaker 1: I really appreciate the way that you took those cardinal 689 00:45:49,160 --> 00:45:52,120 Speaker 1: rules and expanded them to what we do in our 690 00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:55,239 Speaker 1: everyday lives, making it clear everybody can be an artist. 691 00:45:55,360 --> 00:45:56,640 Speaker 1: Yes in his or her own way. 692 00:45:56,760 --> 00:46:01,600 Speaker 3: Yes, do what you can do. It's a potlucks, bring 693 00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:07,400 Speaker 3: your best dish. 694 00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:10,080 Speaker 1: You Literally, I could talk to you all day, my friend. 695 00:46:10,360 --> 00:46:14,759 Speaker 1: I just wish you all of the blessings of this 696 00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:21,080 Speaker 1: extraordinary life that you're leading. May it continue with joy 697 00:46:21,120 --> 00:46:24,279 Speaker 1: and gratitude and you continue to find ways to share 698 00:46:24,280 --> 00:46:27,240 Speaker 1: it with Thank you. It really means the world to 699 00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:28,120 Speaker 1: me personally. 700 00:46:28,480 --> 00:46:30,880 Speaker 3: May I have the last word? 701 00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:32,480 Speaker 1: Yes, you may. 702 00:46:33,160 --> 00:46:40,360 Speaker 3: Hillary Rodham, Clinton, Madam President, Thank you for allowing me 703 00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:45,560 Speaker 3: to have this conversation with you. I'm taking it to 704 00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:49,960 Speaker 3: everyone whose eyes light up when they see me. 705 00:46:50,080 --> 00:47:07,680 Speaker 1: Come You and Me Both. Is brought to you by iHeartRadio. 706 00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:12,240 Speaker 1: We're produced by Julie Subren, Kathleen Russo and Rob Russo, 707 00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:18,560 Speaker 1: with help from Juma Aberdeen, Oscar Flores, Lindsay Hoffman, Brianna Johnson, 708 00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:24,279 Speaker 1: Nick Merrill, Lona Valmorro and Benita Zuman. Our engineer is 709 00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:28,720 Speaker 1: Zach McNeice and the original music is by Forrest Gray. 710 00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:31,439 Speaker 1: If you like you and Me Both, tell someone else 711 00:47:31,480 --> 00:47:34,319 Speaker 1: about it, and if you're not already a subscriber, what 712 00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:37,440 Speaker 1: are you waiting for? You can subscribe to you and 713 00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:41,960 Speaker 1: me both on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 714 00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:46,480 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening, and, as Andre says, 715 00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:49,200 Speaker 1: keep climbing. I'll see you next week.