WEBVTT - Biden Picks Jackson for Supreme Court 0:00:01.800 --> 0:00:04.440 This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Karl Masser and I'm 0:00:04.480 --> 0:00:07.280 Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stanovk. We're here every day bringing 0:00:07.320 --> 0:00:09.840 you the latest news from the world to business and finance, 0:00:09.840 --> 0:00:13.680 plus technology, politics, economics, all purtnising the power of Business 0:00:13.680 --> 0:00:17.160 Week reporters and editors, not to mention our journalists and 0:00:17.160 --> 0:00:20.000 analysts in more than one twenty countries. You can download 0:00:20.000 --> 0:00:23.239 Bloomberg Business Week and iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot Com. 0:00:23.400 --> 0:00:25.200 You can also listen to our radio show at two 0:00:25.200 --> 0:00:27.880 pm Eastern Time on Bloomberg Radio, or watch us on 0:00:27.920 --> 0:00:31.760 YouTube search Bloomberg Global News. The big news is President 0:00:31.840 --> 0:00:35.800 Joe Biden nominating Judge Katanji Brown Jackson to be the 0:00:35.840 --> 0:00:38.800 first black woman on the Supreme Court, a historic selection 0:00:39.320 --> 0:00:42.120 that would add certainly a fresh liberal voice when it 0:00:42.159 --> 0:00:45.200 comes to the nation's highest court. Let's get to June Grasso. 0:00:45.200 --> 0:00:47.600 She's Bloomberg News Legal Analyst, host of Bloomberg Law. You 0:00:47.640 --> 0:00:50.239 can catch that, recognize that ten pm Wall Street time 0:00:50.280 --> 0:00:53.080 on Bloomberg Radio. She's here in her interactive broker studio. 0:00:53.680 --> 0:00:57.720 This is significant. It's a historic day, of course it is. 0:00:57.800 --> 0:01:02.520 And his choice of katangi Brown Jackson. Judge Jackson was 0:01:02.720 --> 0:01:04.679 expected in a way. I mean, you could never be 0:01:04.800 --> 0:01:08.400 sure until they actually say the name. But she has 0:01:08.400 --> 0:01:11.920 been a star. She's a top contender for this position. 0:01:12.440 --> 0:01:15.760 Barack Obama even interviewed her at the time he had 0:01:15.800 --> 0:01:18.440 an opening on the court and gave it to Merrick Garland. 0:01:19.000 --> 0:01:23.320 So she has just been a rising star on the bench, 0:01:23.520 --> 0:01:27.319 and she has everything. She has the kind of background 0:01:27.319 --> 0:01:29.760 that Ivy League background that they always have on the 0:01:29.800 --> 0:01:32.480 Supreme Court. She's sort of fits in the mold of 0:01:32.560 --> 0:01:35.240 Justice Bryer, who she clerked for. She you know, went 0:01:35.280 --> 0:01:38.520 to Harvard College and she graduated from Harvard Law School. 0:01:38.680 --> 0:01:42.360 But what she has that other Supreme Court justices don't 0:01:42.400 --> 0:01:46.360 have right now is she served as a federal public defender, 0:01:46.880 --> 0:01:50.960 so she represented indigent defendants. And at the Supreme Court, 0:01:51.040 --> 0:01:54.360 the last time there was a justice who had significant 0:01:54.360 --> 0:01:59.720 experience representing criminal defenses defendants, it was the famous Thurgood 0:01:59.720 --> 0:02:02.840 mare Scholl, who was the legendary civil right sler. You 0:02:02.960 --> 0:02:08.040 heard President Biden mentioned Justice Marshall in his comments, and 0:02:08.440 --> 0:02:10.680 so no one on the court right now has that 0:02:10.760 --> 0:02:13.480 kind of experience, and Biden has been trying to put 0:02:13.840 --> 0:02:17.359 people on the bench at every level that have different 0:02:17.440 --> 0:02:21.000 kinds of backgrounds. Not prosecutors, but a lot of public defenders. 0:02:21.040 --> 0:02:25.360 She's also a sentencing expert. She sat on the Sentencing uh, 0:02:25.639 --> 0:02:29.520 the Sentencing Commission, So she's got a lot going for her. Okay, 0:02:29.520 --> 0:02:31.240 So a nomination is one thing, but what about that 0:02:31.280 --> 0:02:35.360 path to confirmation? June? She was nominated last summer to 0:02:35.400 --> 0:02:37.640 be the federal for the Federal Appeals Court and Washington, 0:02:37.680 --> 0:02:40.239 d C. She was confirmed to that position. Some Republicans 0:02:40.440 --> 0:02:42.880 voted for her. Does that set her up for success 0:02:43.120 --> 0:02:46.600 this time around? Well, you can't guarantee that. I mean, 0:02:46.680 --> 0:02:49.639 I don't know. It's a different A Supreme Court confirmation 0:02:49.639 --> 0:02:52.320 hearing is different from a confirmation hearing, even for the 0:02:52.400 --> 0:02:55.320 DC Appellate Court, which is which is considered a feeder court. 0:02:55.840 --> 0:02:59.360 I believe about um at the last fourteen justices, five 0:02:59.400 --> 0:03:02.560 of them sat on the d C Circuit Court. So 0:03:02.639 --> 0:03:07.560 it's a springboard and she basically sailed through that nomination process. 0:03:07.800 --> 0:03:09.560 But that doesn't mean that she's going to get those 0:03:09.560 --> 0:03:13.200 same three Republican votes when she is. You know, when 0:03:13.200 --> 0:03:16.840 the nomination comes up. I don't expect and most people 0:03:16.919 --> 0:03:20.120 don't expect there to be anything because she's been you know, 0:03:20.160 --> 0:03:23.800 she's been vetted just recently, and also the Republicans really 0:03:23.840 --> 0:03:28.240 don't have a sort of aligned to attack her. They 0:03:28.280 --> 0:03:32.280 don't have a coherent narrative against her. What they did 0:03:32.400 --> 0:03:36.280 during those hearings was there were some wonky questions about sentencing, 0:03:36.880 --> 0:03:40.400 and um, there was. The only real attack was that 0:03:40.440 --> 0:03:43.520 she represented when she was a public defender, she represented 0:03:43.520 --> 0:03:47.160 a Guantanamo inmate. That's not really much of an attack. 0:03:47.320 --> 0:03:49.920 So I don't know what they could possibly hit her way, 0:03:49.960 --> 0:03:53.440 But that doesn't mean that she'll get those same three votes. Um. 0:03:53.440 --> 0:03:56.600 It's interesting just watching the Twitter universe and somebody's saying, 0:03:56.600 --> 0:03:58.880 what a great way to wrap up Black History Month? 0:03:59.000 --> 0:04:02.080 Um was interest things I do wonder if she indeed 0:04:02.200 --> 0:04:05.680 goes through the confirmation process and is confirmed, how will 0:04:05.840 --> 0:04:10.040 she play against the existing Supreme Court justices. What I 0:04:10.080 --> 0:04:13.000 think is really interesting is that, of course she's not 0:04:13.000 --> 0:04:16.000 going to change the outlook of the court. There are 0:04:16.000 --> 0:04:19.120 still gonna be six conservatives and three liberals, but the 0:04:19.279 --> 0:04:24.479 three liberals the basics, that's certainly slanted towards the concerned side, 0:04:24.640 --> 0:04:28.120 but the three liberals are going to be three women 0:04:28.760 --> 0:04:32.240 three and a diverse three women, the Hispanic, Jewish and 0:04:32.279 --> 0:04:35.400 now Black. And they are going to be dynamic. They're 0:04:35.400 --> 0:04:38.400 going to be in the in the descent a lot, 0:04:38.680 --> 0:04:40.400 but you're going to hear a lot from them. I 0:04:40.400 --> 0:04:43.920 mean even now, Justice Sodo Mayor is really strong in 0:04:43.960 --> 0:04:47.880 the comments that she makes. Justice Kagan is fluent and 0:04:48.000 --> 0:04:51.320 elegant in the way she talks and writes. So I 0:04:51.360 --> 0:04:53.320 think it's going to be, you know, really dynamic. And 0:04:53.440 --> 0:04:56.279 also you're going to have a perspective a black woman. 0:04:56.680 --> 0:04:59.359 Right now, there is one black on the court, Clarence Thomas. 0:04:59.400 --> 0:05:02.839 But for example, an affirmative action, they're gonna be affirmative 0:05:02.839 --> 0:05:07.120 action cases coming up next term. Justice Thomas doesn't believe 0:05:07.120 --> 0:05:10.440 in affirmative action, so now we'll have another viewpoint of 0:05:10.920 --> 0:05:14.080 someone in that position of black person. So I think 0:05:14.080 --> 0:05:16.320 it's going to be really valuable. I can't wait to 0:05:16.360 --> 0:05:19.240 hear the first oral arguments because you sort of get 0:05:19.240 --> 0:05:21.880 a feeling for how they're going to interact, at least 0:05:21.880 --> 0:05:24.960 at the beginning of Some justices sort of hang back 0:05:25.000 --> 0:05:27.159 at the beginning, but then you had like Justice Course 0:05:27.200 --> 0:05:30.839 that who went right full on and corrected the Chief 0:05:30.920 --> 0:05:33.280 Justice on something he said about where the tenth circuit 0:05:33.320 --> 0:05:36.400 was and then had to backtrack and apologize because he'd 0:05:36.400 --> 0:05:38.760 made a mistake and the Chief was right. I mean, 0:05:38.839 --> 0:05:41.200 so you have this real dynamic. It will be interesting 0:05:41.200 --> 0:05:43.040 to see how she plays in that. That's just about 0:05:43.080 --> 0:05:48.120 using the right forks right at this, that's more than that. Well, 0:05:48.160 --> 0:05:50.719 also she does have now to open the door when 0:05:50.720 --> 0:05:54.440 they have conferences. The most junior justice has to open 0:05:54.480 --> 0:05:57.240 the door and take the notes. Justice Bryce said, I 0:05:57.240 --> 0:05:59.680 think he was like the longest he was decades doing that. 0:06:00.080 --> 0:06:03.480 And also Justice Kagan said that you're you're in charge 0:06:03.640 --> 0:06:07.360 of the dining room, so you get nothing, but it 0:06:07.440 --> 0:06:10.520 is and if you put in a yogurt machine, she said, 0:06:10.520 --> 0:06:15.400 you're golden sky. All right. But again, you know, this 0:06:15.520 --> 0:06:18.600 is not something that happens. It certainly has happened relatively 0:06:18.640 --> 0:06:20.960 frequently over the last few years. But for people who 0:06:21.040 --> 0:06:24.000 don't recall, um, what's the process like and what's a 0:06:24.040 --> 0:06:26.360 realistic timeline that we can expect at least some sort 0:06:26.360 --> 0:06:29.359 of confirmation process to get kicked off. Well, Dick Durban, 0:06:29.400 --> 0:06:31.320 who's in charge of this, he's the head of the 0:06:31.400 --> 0:06:34.840 Judiciary Committee, says he wants this done by Easter time. 0:06:35.279 --> 0:06:36.800 The first thing that will happen is, I mean, they're 0:06:36.800 --> 0:06:39.000 going to have to go through the background checks and 0:06:39.080 --> 0:06:42.160 she has to, you know, file different papers. She'll meet 0:06:42.200 --> 0:06:46.080 with different senators you know, and and have discussions with them. 0:06:46.520 --> 0:06:50.600 Those are usually very cordial. And then you have the 0:06:50.640 --> 0:06:53.520 first here in which will be the Judiciary Committee hearing, 0:06:53.520 --> 0:06:55.880 and that will be a hearing where you know, the 0:06:56.360 --> 0:06:59.480 senators on the Judiciary Committee talked, ask her questions, and 0:06:59.520 --> 0:07:02.279 then you're going to have a full um you know, 0:07:02.480 --> 0:07:05.640 a full vote by the Senate, vote by the Judiciary Committee, 0:07:05.640 --> 0:07:07.640 and then a vote by the Senate, the full Senate. 0:07:07.680 --> 0:07:10.680 And he helped to have that done by um by 0:07:10.760 --> 0:07:13.400 Easter time. So that's a pretty fast time. It's not 0:07:13.480 --> 0:07:15.800 as fast as it's been because any Coney Barrett I 0:07:15.800 --> 0:07:20.000 think was thirty days from from beginning to end of 0:07:20.040 --> 0:07:22.120 the process. So it can be done, and I think 0:07:22.120 --> 0:07:24.720 it will be done, and I think she will sail through. 0:07:26.000 --> 0:07:30.120 I think this process with any Republican votes are just 0:07:30.920 --> 0:07:34.040 Democrats question. I don't know. I hope that there will 0:07:34.080 --> 0:07:38.400 be a few. I hope that at least Senator Collins 0:07:38.480 --> 0:07:43.000 and Murkowski, who voted for her below and women's senators. 0:07:43.080 --> 0:07:45.360 I hope that they will vote for her, and but 0:07:45.480 --> 0:07:47.560 we'll see. I mean, there couldn't even be more. I 0:07:47.560 --> 0:07:51.000 mean she is really a star. She sounds super far 0:07:51.240 --> 0:07:53.680 exactly super just based on the you know, looking at 0:07:53.680 --> 0:07:56.120 her background, right, I can't find I don't haven't found 0:07:56.160 --> 0:07:58.320 anything wrong that you could that you could point to that. 0:07:58.400 --> 0:08:02.120 Oh well there was this one thing. It just hasn't 0:08:02.120 --> 0:08:04.680 come up. All right, good stuff, Um, thank you so much. 0:08:04.760 --> 0:08:08.200 Joom Grasso from Bright News Legal Alice. Anything pops up legally, 0:08:08.200 --> 0:08:10.640 ease in the news room, like June, I'll be here, 0:08:10.840 --> 0:08:13.320 He'll be here, I'll run it. Help me. What does 0:08:13.320 --> 0:08:16.640 this mean? Host of Bloomberg Law catch her weeknights Attempi 0:08:16.720 --> 0:08:19.240 in Wall Street Time. Right here on Bloomberg Radio, you're 0:08:19.280 --> 0:08:23.240 listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg 0:08:23.320 --> 0:08:27.640 Quick Takes Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. Bloomberg has been 0:08:27.680 --> 0:08:30.440 reporting a swath of major American businesses, from major banks 0:08:30.440 --> 0:08:34.200 to utility companies, preparing for possible cyber attacks against their 0:08:34.200 --> 0:08:38.040 computer networks as Russia has threatened consequences for nations that 0:08:38.120 --> 0:08:40.240 interfere with its invasion of Ukraine and Tim, you know, 0:08:40.280 --> 0:08:42.360 we've already been reporting on and talking about the cyber 0:08:42.360 --> 0:08:46.439 attacks on systems inside Ukraine to essentially undermine the security 0:08:46.520 --> 0:08:48.839 of the country. Citizen. Yeah, certainly an important voice to 0:08:48.920 --> 0:08:52.040 speak on this is Hitesh Chef, the president and CEO 0:08:52.200 --> 0:08:56.280 of vector AI. It's a privately held organization that helps 0:08:56.320 --> 0:09:00.120 government agencies, corporations as well keep their networks sitting in 0:09:00.200 --> 0:09:03.080 buildings and on the cloud. Hit Tesh, it's great to 0:09:03.080 --> 0:09:05.160 have you with us. You're joining us from San Jose, California. 0:09:05.200 --> 0:09:08.360 How are you good? Good? And thanks for having me, No, 0:09:08.520 --> 0:09:10.000 thank you so much for joining us. There's this is 0:09:10.040 --> 0:09:11.760 a perfect time to be talking about this because I 0:09:11.760 --> 0:09:14.040 think there is this elevated sense of perhaps there could 0:09:14.080 --> 0:09:18.160 be cyber attacks with especially you know, Russia and China 0:09:18.280 --> 0:09:23.520 being among the countries that are so good at attacking 0:09:24.120 --> 0:09:27.839 cyber networks. Help us understand how risk is right now? 0:09:27.920 --> 0:09:30.600 Is it elevated as a result of the invasion of Ukraine. 0:09:31.840 --> 0:09:35.560 I think the risk is is very elevated. And and 0:09:35.559 --> 0:09:38.040 and the reason I say that is that, you know, 0:09:38.480 --> 0:09:41.920 I think we can all logically assume that the invasion 0:09:41.920 --> 0:09:45.760 of Ukraine was a planned event. It's not as though 0:09:46.640 --> 0:09:48.640 the government in Russia woke up on the twenty and 0:09:48.640 --> 0:09:51.360 said we're gonna invade next day in the morning. They've 0:09:51.360 --> 0:09:53.040 been doing this. They've been taking about this for a 0:09:53.160 --> 0:09:56.520 very long time, likely toward twenty four months. And in 0:09:56.600 --> 0:10:00.240 that timeframe, Uh, they've I'm sure done scenario scenario planning 0:10:00.280 --> 0:10:04.960 with Hey, if we did this, these are likely ramifications globally, 0:10:05.480 --> 0:10:08.760 sanctions being one of them. And you know, and this 0:10:08.800 --> 0:10:10.920 is where they're going to originate from. And so therefore, 0:10:11.440 --> 0:10:14.240 what are the preemptive things we can do to to 0:10:14.360 --> 0:10:16.840 do with those events? And one of the preemptive things 0:10:16.880 --> 0:10:21.400 I'm sure they've done is is gone and stealthily, you know, 0:10:21.480 --> 0:10:27.360 launch cyber attacks already on a lot of the infrastructure 0:10:27.400 --> 0:10:31.000 we've got you in the country. Um, you know, key institutions, 0:10:31.120 --> 0:10:34.440 and and there is malvery that is sitting there. Um, 0:10:34.520 --> 0:10:37.360 they're ready to get activated, right and you know it's 0:10:37.400 --> 0:10:40.439 it's you know, as as tough as it is, it's 0:10:40.440 --> 0:10:42.480 a matter of pushing buttons. Now this is where we are. 0:10:43.120 --> 0:10:46.160 So I am curious to tash how strategic is Russia 0:10:46.240 --> 0:10:48.440 thinking about this? Well, first of all, Russia, we know 0:10:48.600 --> 0:10:51.720 along with Iran, China US among the world's leading practitioners 0:10:51.720 --> 0:10:55.600 of cyber warfare. It's not what warfare, It's not just Russia. 0:10:55.640 --> 0:10:58.280 I mean, we do it the United States. But I'm 0:10:58.320 --> 0:11:01.600 curious how much in terms of of planning their military 0:11:01.679 --> 0:11:05.600 strategy into Ukraine, how much are they being strategic in 0:11:05.679 --> 0:11:08.000 terms of the targets they hit because they to some 0:11:08.120 --> 0:11:11.640 extent want to keep the cyber world up and running 0:11:12.040 --> 0:11:14.920 because it can be very productive in their own goal 0:11:14.960 --> 0:11:18.240 and mission. Yeah, but they will look at what they 0:11:18.280 --> 0:11:21.480 just did, right they They were I think very e 0:11:21.559 --> 0:11:24.720 stategic about this right there. You know, three things have occurred. 0:11:24.720 --> 0:11:26.839 In the first and foremost at the highest level, you know, 0:11:27.000 --> 0:11:31.320 the first time in human history we're seeing cyber attacks 0:11:31.559 --> 0:11:34.120 becoming a weapon of first choice. Now we have a 0:11:34.240 --> 0:11:38.400 long theorized, especially those of us who live in in 0:11:38.400 --> 0:11:41.480 in uh in cybersecurity, that this is gonna this event 0:11:41.559 --> 0:11:43.760 is going to come to pass at some point, um, 0:11:43.920 --> 0:11:45.760 you know, and and obviously we're all hoping that we 0:11:45.800 --> 0:11:48.040 would not have to see it. But but here we are. 0:11:48.559 --> 0:11:50.360 And so they were, they were, I think we're very 0:11:50.600 --> 0:11:54.640 very thoughtful about how this got integrated into their overall 0:11:54.679 --> 0:11:59.440 attack framework. Number one. Number two, Um, you know at 0:11:59.480 --> 0:12:02.520 least a mini moment wasn't reported out there, right, you know, 0:12:02.679 --> 0:12:07.280 they went after financial institutions, a very logical target if 0:12:07.320 --> 0:12:10.400 you are thinking about how to disrupt uh, you know, 0:12:10.440 --> 0:12:13.080 the general population. The second thing they did is go 0:12:13.080 --> 0:12:15.319 off to social media, right, I mean, I think we 0:12:15.320 --> 0:12:18.760 we revolts in the news on Twitter and and again 0:12:18.920 --> 0:12:20.599 you know, if you the reason to go off for 0:12:20.679 --> 0:12:23.719 social media is you know, when when democracies are either 0:12:23.760 --> 0:12:26.880 getting formed or the threat, right, it's a it's a 0:12:26.960 --> 0:12:30.800 very effective way to either spread misinformation and or cut 0:12:30.800 --> 0:12:34.240 off you know, news getting shared, not just in the 0:12:34.360 --> 0:12:37.200 in the country you're targeting in this case, Ukraine, but 0:12:37.320 --> 0:12:40.320 even within Russia itself. And so I think though, I 0:12:40.320 --> 0:12:43.520 think they were very thoughtful about how they than the 0:12:43.600 --> 0:12:46.480 utilize several attacks in this campaign of theirs. And let's 0:12:46.480 --> 0:12:48.360 not forget there's a headline earlier that I know across 0:12:48.360 --> 0:12:51.080 the Bloomberg Russia saying will limit access to Facebook from February, 0:12:51.720 --> 0:12:54.680 so right till they are looking at the role of 0:12:54.720 --> 0:12:57.559 social media in it. Yeah, wondering what lessons there are 0:12:57.600 --> 0:13:02.040 for just normal folks who don't necessarily run organizations. But 0:13:02.320 --> 0:13:04.920 how we can keep our information safe. I think of 0:13:04.920 --> 0:13:07.280 a tweet that I saw earlier today from Josh Wolf, 0:13:07.360 --> 0:13:10.600 he's a venture capitalist at Lux Capital. Uh, I've interviewed 0:13:10.679 --> 0:13:13.320 him before. He says that there's some advice that he 0:13:13.360 --> 0:13:17.720 has have calms, backup plans now, not just for your firm, 0:13:17.800 --> 0:13:21.360 but for your family. Yeah. Look, I mean I think 0:13:21.360 --> 0:13:25.880 you know, uh, the normal advice of one would give 0:13:26.040 --> 0:13:29.760 to somebody's sitting in the house, right, which is if 0:13:29.800 --> 0:13:32.880 you're dealing with ransomware direct. Now we're talking about attacks 0:13:32.920 --> 0:13:35.600 on social media, right, It's always good to have you know, 0:13:35.640 --> 0:13:38.120 your data backed up. Just something as basic as that 0:13:38.720 --> 0:13:42.840 is critical, not not just for enterprises and small businesses, 0:13:42.840 --> 0:13:46.400 but for people in the home. Backup your data, right. 0:13:46.520 --> 0:13:50.040 Just make sure you are not trusting you know, random emails. 0:13:50.080 --> 0:13:53.280 You know, don't don't get don't fall for fishing attacks. Um, 0:13:53.440 --> 0:13:56.520 make sure you've got basically protection software is sitting on 0:13:56.559 --> 0:13:59.839 your on your laptops and funds, right, keep your software 0:13:59.920 --> 0:14:02.480 up data. I mean, these are basic hygiene things that 0:14:02.600 --> 0:14:06.559 the average consumers should do um to protect themselves. Um, 0:14:06.679 --> 0:14:10.680 you know, and then you know, beyond that, the companies themselves, 0:14:10.679 --> 0:14:14.840 like people like Twitter have irresponsibility. Social media companies themselves 0:14:15.280 --> 0:14:18.400 have responsible to make sure that while they cannot control 0:14:18.440 --> 0:14:21.400 whether Russia is going to cut off Facebook, they have 0:14:21.680 --> 0:14:24.680 they definitely can have a set amount of control or 0:14:24.720 --> 0:14:29.240 making sure that the right information is getting out there, right. 0:14:29.280 --> 0:14:33.200 You know, these these platforms are have been used as 0:14:33.240 --> 0:14:37.280 a as as a weapon to spread misinformation, and I 0:14:37.400 --> 0:14:41.600 think they have a unique responsibility to get ahead of 0:14:41.640 --> 0:14:44.560 that and not just hide behind the veil off. We're 0:14:44.640 --> 0:14:46.840 just a platform and we just put out things there 0:14:46.960 --> 0:14:50.160 and we really don't control when the truth is absolutely 0:14:50.160 --> 0:14:51.800 control what's getting put out there. So when we think 0:14:51.800 --> 0:14:53.560 about sanctions, you know, you get to think about their 0:14:53.560 --> 0:14:55.720 recyber sanctions as well. We could talk about that with 0:14:55.760 --> 0:14:58.880 the former Ukrainian finance minister who's going to join us 0:14:58.880 --> 0:15:01.040 a little bit later on TESH. Thank you so much 0:15:01.040 --> 0:15:03.480 at test Chef president and chief executive officer of Victor 0:15:03.560 --> 0:15:06.440 AI joining us on the phone from San Jose, California. 0:15:06.480 --> 0:15:07.840 I mean, that is a reminder that we're living in 0:15:07.840 --> 0:15:09.640 different times. Make a good point to Carol, it's not 0:15:09.680 --> 0:15:11.360 just China and Russia that are the ones who are 0:15:11.400 --> 0:15:15.520 doing the cyber attacks. This is Bloomberg Business Week with 0:15:15.600 --> 0:15:20.400 Carol Masser and Bloomberg Quick Takes. Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. 0:15:20.640 --> 0:15:23.440 We have an incredible guest with us, UM Natalie Drusco, 0:15:23.920 --> 0:15:27.440 former Ukrainian Minister of Finance from twenty sixteen during the 0:15:27.440 --> 0:15:31.040 initial Russian invasion occupation of Ukraine. Tim also the executive 0:15:31.040 --> 0:15:33.520 director of the Financial Oversight and Management Board for Puerto Rico. 0:15:33.600 --> 0:15:36.480 She's been helping that area with their financial problems. She 0:15:36.600 --> 0:15:38.800 was also the subject of a Bloomberg Business Week story 0:15:38.800 --> 0:15:41.640 back in twenty fifteen. It was entitled The American Woman 0:15:41.680 --> 0:15:45.200 who stands between Putin and Ukraine. She joins us on 0:15:45.240 --> 0:15:48.680 the phone from San Juan, Puerto Rico. Um, Natalie, so 0:15:48.760 --> 0:15:51.120 nice to have you here. I know you did a 0:15:51.280 --> 0:15:55.240 really smart interview with our surveillance team earlier on Bloomberg TV, 0:15:55.440 --> 0:15:59.240 and you told our Tom Keene Um about what you're 0:15:59.240 --> 0:16:03.760 hearing from you brain. What's the latest on that. Well, 0:16:03.800 --> 0:16:06.480 we're going into the evening into the nighttime, so people 0:16:06.480 --> 0:16:12.400 are retiring and going into the bunkers and the bomb shelters. 0:16:12.960 --> 0:16:17.200 So the you know, the casing now is massive, waiting 0:16:17.400 --> 0:16:20.800 to see what happens next. Um. Obviously there's fear but 0:16:20.960 --> 0:16:23.560 you know, Ukrainians are stepping up in a way that 0:16:23.640 --> 0:16:25.600 you know, every nation should be proud to act as 0:16:25.640 --> 0:16:28.080 brave as they are. They're they're volunteering in any way 0:16:28.080 --> 0:16:30.720 they can. They're volunteering, whether it's to give blood, whether 0:16:30.720 --> 0:16:33.440 they're volunteering for the civil defense and picking up guns 0:16:33.960 --> 0:16:37.520 to fight UM. But they are, they are acting UH 0:16:37.760 --> 0:16:41.040 with you know, full intense to keep their homeland. Natalie. 0:16:41.080 --> 0:16:44.000 We just spoke a few minutes ago to Angela Stent, 0:16:44.080 --> 0:16:47.320 senior adviser to the Center for Eurasian, Russian and East 0:16:47.400 --> 0:16:52.840 European Studies. She shared with us her assessment that she 0:16:52.960 --> 0:16:55.440 really thinks things are going in the direction of Putin 0:16:55.480 --> 0:16:59.960 being able to overtake KIEVU and indeed install a Putin 0:17:00.120 --> 0:17:05.080 friendly governing official there. And at this point that's really inevitable. 0:17:05.119 --> 0:17:08.399 And I'm monitoring if you share that assessment. Well, I 0:17:08.400 --> 0:17:12.040 will never say that that's inevitable. Now, I do know 0:17:12.080 --> 0:17:16.399 that that is the objective of Putin. His objective is 0:17:16.480 --> 0:17:21.080 to decapitate UH, the government, to suffitcate the economy, to 0:17:21.480 --> 0:17:25.320 deny Ukraine It's freedom, deny Ukrainians their existence. But I 0:17:25.400 --> 0:17:27.800 also know the strength of the Ukrainian people and the 0:17:27.880 --> 0:17:30.440 desire of people to maintain their peace, their freedom in 0:17:30.480 --> 0:17:34.040 their own country. And so Ukrainians will resist and are 0:17:34.160 --> 0:17:37.879 resisting and have given the Russians a little bit of 0:17:37.920 --> 0:17:41.360 a surprise in terms of the incredible morale and training 0:17:41.440 --> 0:17:44.160 of the armed forces of Ukraine. So there is a 0:17:44.200 --> 0:17:48.160 great deal of hope against hope. But I will say that, 0:17:48.520 --> 0:17:53.159 you know, Ukrainians would have greater hope if are the 0:17:53.200 --> 0:17:57.240 Western partners, the United States and Europe could deliver much 0:17:57.320 --> 0:18:03.000 more massive UH sanctions, economic, financial and much more massive 0:18:03.080 --> 0:18:07.200 military support for them to defend themselves, right, Because that 0:18:07.280 --> 0:18:10.560 what I'm wondering is, you know, is there an outcome 0:18:10.840 --> 0:18:18.800 where Ukraine remains neutral, independent without greater support, whether it's 0:18:18.880 --> 0:18:25.960 military or tougher sanctions um from the West. I mean, 0:18:26.160 --> 0:18:29.000 there's a really lot packed in there for so independent 0:18:29.080 --> 0:18:31.240 and neutral or not to to to the same thing, 0:18:31.320 --> 0:18:37.680 Ukraine's independent constitution has MADEO has an objective, a goal. 0:18:38.200 --> 0:18:40.080 It doesn't mean as a timeline, doesn't mean that they're 0:18:40.119 --> 0:18:42.440 there yet, But that is up to the Ukrainian people 0:18:42.440 --> 0:18:45.800 and they have chosen their direction in terms of what 0:18:45.920 --> 0:18:48.439 Ukraine will do without for their Western support. I think 0:18:48.440 --> 0:18:50.080 it's unfair to say that. I think the West has 0:18:50.080 --> 0:18:53.360 to look at this as a singular set of defining 0:18:53.440 --> 0:18:58.040 days to isolate the pariah states, to isolate Russia. And 0:18:58.280 --> 0:19:00.240 the reason this is in the United States, in the 0:19:00.280 --> 0:19:03.800 reason this is an every single American's interest, every single 0:19:03.840 --> 0:19:07.400 bridge interest, is because Ukraine right now is standing between 0:19:08.600 --> 0:19:11.360 the world as we know it, a world of rules 0:19:11.400 --> 0:19:15.360 and rules based society, a rule uh a world of 0:19:15.400 --> 0:19:19.800 peace and freedom that we created and developed and built 0:19:19.840 --> 0:19:23.200 since World War Two. It is standing between that life 0:19:23.320 --> 0:19:28.040 that we love and a world of of chaos and 0:19:28.119 --> 0:19:32.840 conflicts or power and autocrats and tyrants move borders at 0:19:32.880 --> 0:19:35.479 their own will. That is not a world that is 0:19:35.520 --> 0:19:37.960 good for the U S. Stock market. It is not 0:19:38.040 --> 0:19:39.880 a world that is good for the US investor. It's 0:19:39.920 --> 0:19:41.960 not a world that's good for the U. S. Worker. 0:19:42.440 --> 0:19:44.800 It's not a world that's good for the United States 0:19:44.920 --> 0:19:48.399 or for other freedom loving countries. So, Natalie, if you 0:19:48.480 --> 0:19:53.160 were advising the United States government or perhaps European governments 0:19:53.240 --> 0:19:55.760 right now, what sanctions would you advise them to put 0:19:55.800 --> 0:20:00.840 in place? So uh, full and in mediate sanctions on 0:20:00.880 --> 0:20:03.280 the financial sector in Russia, meaning starting with the Central 0:20:03.320 --> 0:20:06.399 Bank of Russia, which has not yet been sanctioned. Moving 0:20:06.440 --> 0:20:08.879 on to all the state banks in Russia, some have, 0:20:09.080 --> 0:20:11.840 some have not closed the circle, cut them all off, 0:20:12.320 --> 0:20:17.440 cutting Russia off from Swift, UM and UM, putting restrictions 0:20:17.480 --> 0:20:22.280 on ruble clearing. I would go even further to encourage 0:20:22.320 --> 0:20:25.560 all asset managers to divest of all Russian investments. In fact, 0:20:25.600 --> 0:20:28.520 I would ask the marketplace to look at this as 0:20:28.520 --> 0:20:31.760 we did growing up and giving away my age UH 0:20:31.800 --> 0:20:35.680 and discouraged the businesses from investing in South Africa because 0:20:35.680 --> 0:20:39.520 of apartheid. There is a moral equivalent here, UH, in 0:20:39.560 --> 0:20:41.960 the sense that we should not be investing in a 0:20:42.000 --> 0:20:45.600 country that in a government, in businesses from a government 0:20:46.160 --> 0:20:52.760 that are knowingly clearly trying to create another genocide. UM. 0:20:53.320 --> 0:20:55.760 Above and beyond financial restrictions, I think there's a great 0:20:55.800 --> 0:20:59.600 deal we can do UM in terms of trade restrictions, 0:21:00.040 --> 0:21:02.800 export controls can be increased. I think we should stop 0:21:02.800 --> 0:21:06.119 allowing Russian airlines to fly in our airspace. UH. You know, 0:21:06.240 --> 0:21:09.480 Ukraine has unfortunately had its sports closed and its airport's 0:21:09.480 --> 0:21:12.359 closed as they try to suffocate the economy. There's no 0:21:12.400 --> 0:21:16.480 reason we should allow Russian plane airlines air flux to 0:21:16.480 --> 0:21:20.240 fly in our space. I think sanctioning the entire leadership, 0:21:20.320 --> 0:21:23.480 sanctioning everyone from President Tooting, which the news is reporting 0:21:23.520 --> 0:21:26.359 the United States is considering all the way through the 0:21:26.440 --> 0:21:29.199 members of the Duma, the members of the National Security Council, 0:21:29.280 --> 0:21:32.240 the members of the cabinet, ministers and all their families. 0:21:32.800 --> 0:21:37.240 Why should any of them have access to our to visas, 0:21:37.240 --> 0:21:40.120 to our to our universities, to our bank accounts. If 0:21:40.200 --> 0:21:42.680 they want to enjoy peace and freedom in the United 0:21:42.720 --> 0:21:45.199 States and Europe, then they ought to allow Ukraines to 0:21:45.440 --> 0:21:48.560 enjoy peace and freedom. So I think there's just they're 0:21:48.560 --> 0:21:50.760 just numerous things that can be done. So what's the 0:21:50.760 --> 0:21:53.040 world afraid of? What's the United States afraid of? What 0:21:53.080 --> 0:21:55.200 are the European allies? And one of the conversations we've 0:21:55.200 --> 0:21:58.000 had certainly is that for Europe, where it's much closer 0:21:58.040 --> 0:22:01.679 to home physically, geographically, you know, they are concerned about, 0:22:01.760 --> 0:22:04.439 you know, access to energy, I mean their economies. But 0:22:04.760 --> 0:22:09.200 what is everybody afraid of in terms of pushing back harder? Yeah, 0:22:09.920 --> 0:22:12.560 you hear this with regard to energy sanctions. Um even 0:22:12.640 --> 0:22:15.720 in President Biden speaches where he talks about trying to 0:22:15.840 --> 0:22:18.199