1 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:07,760 Speaker 1: Welcome to tex Stuff, a production from I Heart Radio. 2 00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 1: Hey there, and welcome to tech Stuff. I'm your host, 3 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:17,600 Speaker 1: Jonathan Strickland. I'm an executive producer with I Heeart Radio, 4 00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:20,680 Speaker 1: and I love all things tech. And it's Friday. That 5 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:24,120 Speaker 1: means it's time for a tech Stuff classic episode. This 6 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:28,760 Speaker 1: particular episode published originally on May twenty second, two thousand. 7 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:33,760 Speaker 1: It is called printing a Gun, and it's pretty much 8 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:36,960 Speaker 1: what it sounds like, using three D printers to use 9 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:41,400 Speaker 1: additive manufacturing to produce firearms. Lauren Voege Obama and I 10 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:43,600 Speaker 1: sat down to talk about this one because it was 11 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:46,400 Speaker 1: a brand new, fresh topic and it's one that remains 12 00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 1: relevant today, So enjoy this classic episode. Jonathan and Chris 13 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:53,040 Speaker 1: did an episode on three D print ng way back 14 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:57,960 Speaker 1: in two nine. Yeah, that was shortly after printing itself 15 00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:01,720 Speaker 1: was invented. Um before or that, we just communicated by 16 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:05,559 Speaker 1: banging rocks together. No one was alive then, yeah, well 17 00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:09,880 Speaker 1: there's no no life. We were alive, but anyway, no, no, 18 00:01:09,880 --> 00:01:11,960 Speaker 1: no, no no no. We did an episode on three D 19 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:13,680 Speaker 1: printing back in two thousand nine, which was funny because 20 00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:16,680 Speaker 1: at that point I had never actually seen one in person. 21 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:18,720 Speaker 1: Now we have one in the office. We have one 22 00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:20,120 Speaker 1: in the office. Now, Yeah, we actually have a three 23 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:22,960 Speaker 1: D printer here that's very very tiny and we can 24 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:27,160 Speaker 1: only print small stuff with it. But it's mostly green 25 00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:30,000 Speaker 1: because we haven't changed out the plastic. But what three 26 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:33,040 Speaker 1: D printers do. They print stuff in three dimensions and 27 00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:36,040 Speaker 1: they it's called additive manufacturing, yes, and it's this is 28 00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:39,080 Speaker 1: different from subtractive manufacturing. Subtractive would be where you take 29 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:42,160 Speaker 1: a hunk of stuff and carve away all the stuff 30 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:45,200 Speaker 1: you don't want. It's Michael Angelo's David exactly. Yeah, you're 31 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:48,080 Speaker 1: you're you cut away everything that doesn't look like David. Right. 32 00:01:48,440 --> 00:01:51,000 Speaker 1: That's that's the sculpt sculpting point of view. You know, 33 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:53,480 Speaker 1: to sculpt an elephant, you cut all the stuff away 34 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:56,440 Speaker 1: that doesn't look like an elephant. But that's very wasteful. 35 00:01:56,560 --> 00:01:58,680 Speaker 1: It means that all that material you cut away you 36 00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:02,560 Speaker 1: potentially waste. By using additive manufacturing, you're printing a material. 37 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 1: In most cases, in consumer cases, at any rate, plastics 38 00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:09,639 Speaker 1: in very thin layers uh in in in a predetermined 39 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:14,080 Speaker 1: design exactly. And these layers can be a micron thick 40 00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:18,520 Speaker 1: or thinner. If you've got very precise three D printing technology, 41 00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:21,560 Speaker 1: and you do this layer by layer by layer until 42 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:25,160 Speaker 1: finally you have a full object. And it's doing this 43 00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:27,520 Speaker 1: with plastic and a binding agents so that the plastic 44 00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:30,760 Speaker 1: sticks together properly. Otherwise it would just fall apart and 45 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:34,560 Speaker 1: crumble in your hands. But not so useful. Not so useful. 46 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:36,280 Speaker 1: It would be very pretty until you try to pick 47 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:38,400 Speaker 1: it up. But the but the finished product winds up 48 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:43,000 Speaker 1: being a single piece of plastic in this case. And yeah, 49 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:45,480 Speaker 1: and we've got other there are other types of three 50 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:48,639 Speaker 1: D printers out there. They're not for consumers that can 51 00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:50,480 Speaker 1: print in other materials. And we expect then in the 52 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:52,000 Speaker 1: future we're going to be able to do things like 53 00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:54,160 Speaker 1: print and metal, even to the point where we can 54 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 1: print circuit boards or human organs. Human organs using biological 55 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:01,600 Speaker 1: material we can print it maybe lass really anything that 56 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:04,720 Speaker 1: would allow you to print using a liquid. Uh, it 57 00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:08,560 Speaker 1: would it would all be potentially possible using this method. 58 00:03:08,639 --> 00:03:11,200 Speaker 1: If you're interested in that. We uh. In our other show, 59 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:13,440 Speaker 1: Forward Thinking, we talked a little bit about that, So 60 00:03:13,680 --> 00:03:15,440 Speaker 1: so look that one up if you want to. Yeah, 61 00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:16,480 Speaker 1: it's a lot of fun. That was one of the 62 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:19,760 Speaker 1: earliest episodes. I had a lot of fun talking about that. So, 63 00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:22,000 Speaker 1: what's the big deal with three D printing. Well, it's 64 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:27,320 Speaker 1: it's an incredibly disruptive technology. Uh, And I don't necessarily 65 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:29,679 Speaker 1: mean that in a negative way, but it does mean 66 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:33,560 Speaker 1: that three D printers have the potential to really shake 67 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:36,360 Speaker 1: up the way the world works in many ways, like 68 00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:40,120 Speaker 1: manufacturing and distribution in particular would be very much affected 69 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:42,160 Speaker 1: by three D printers. If you get to the point 70 00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:45,640 Speaker 1: where a three D printer is within the purchasing range 71 00:03:45,720 --> 00:03:49,440 Speaker 1: of your average computer user, then that computer user can 72 00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:51,280 Speaker 1: go out by a three D printer, bring it home 73 00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 1: by the materials you need to be able to build whatever, 74 00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:57,520 Speaker 1: and then you can start constructing stuff out of your home. 75 00:03:57,560 --> 00:04:00,840 Speaker 1: You could download plans from the internet and build things. 76 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:03,640 Speaker 1: And those things could be furniture, it could be toys, 77 00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:07,440 Speaker 1: it could be tools. Uh. And so that means that 78 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:10,680 Speaker 1: you've got these manufacturers out there who design and build 79 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:13,360 Speaker 1: stuff that suddenly have to worry about, well, is there 80 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:16,320 Speaker 1: going to even be a market for my stuff anymore? 81 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:18,800 Speaker 1: Or do I do I change my business models? So 82 00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:22,360 Speaker 1: instead of selling stuff, I start selling plans for stuff. Right, 83 00:04:22,400 --> 00:04:25,320 Speaker 1: you start worrying a lot more about the intellectual copyright 84 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:28,640 Speaker 1: of the shape of a table, which is kind of crazy, right, Like, 85 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:31,359 Speaker 1: you're no longer thinking I need to make sure no 86 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:34,200 Speaker 1: one shoplifts this thing. You're thinking, I need to make 87 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:37,119 Speaker 1: sure no one builds a plan that allows them to 88 00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:40,479 Speaker 1: to print the same as this thing. So there are 89 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:43,839 Speaker 1: a lot of intellectual property concerns that come up because 90 00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:46,200 Speaker 1: of three D printing, and some of them are concerns 91 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:48,360 Speaker 1: that we never would have thought about before, like how 92 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:51,560 Speaker 1: do you copyright a table? You know, but that's a 93 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:54,799 Speaker 1: thing now. So one of the other questions that came 94 00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:58,520 Speaker 1: up pretty early on when three D printers were starting 95 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:01,479 Speaker 1: to become uh, some that the general public was becoming 96 00:05:01,520 --> 00:05:05,080 Speaker 1: aware of was what happens when someone prints a weapon 97 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:07,200 Speaker 1: using one of these things. And for a long time, 98 00:05:07,200 --> 00:05:09,640 Speaker 1: a lot of people were going like, oh, that's years off, 99 00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:11,960 Speaker 1: we don't need to worry about it. Yeah, maybe back 100 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:14,080 Speaker 1: in two thousand nine Chris and I were saying that, 101 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:18,599 Speaker 1: but two thirteen, hey, we're years off now and someone 102 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:21,400 Speaker 1: has done that. Yeah. As of as of May four, 103 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:26,600 Speaker 1: Star Wars Day, Star Wars Day, it was what a 104 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:31,279 Speaker 1: what a bummer? Yeah, that's a nice choice of words there, Lauren. 105 00:05:31,279 --> 00:05:33,920 Speaker 1: I could see you like going through your list. What 106 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:38,039 Speaker 1: word am I going to use? Uh? Excellent choice. I agree. 107 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:41,080 Speaker 1: So we have a fellowed by the name of Cody 108 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:45,280 Speaker 1: Wilson who describes himself as a co founder and chief 109 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:50,600 Speaker 1: evangelist of a group called Defense Distributed. Very clever. Yeah, 110 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:54,720 Speaker 1: it's a nonprofit organization. Yeah. And he designed a gun 111 00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 1: that could be created using a three D printer and 112 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:03,880 Speaker 1: a common nail, uh from a hardware store. And the 113 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:07,880 Speaker 1: gun is has sixteen pieces total, one of those pieces 114 00:06:07,880 --> 00:06:10,479 Speaker 1: being the nail. The other fifteen are all printed by 115 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:14,360 Speaker 1: a three D printer, a consumer grade. I think he 116 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:16,599 Speaker 1: got it for eight thousand bucks on eBay. Yeah, it 117 00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 1: was the Stratusist Dimension s ST three D printer, which 118 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:24,640 Speaker 1: you could probably buy for a round ten thousand dollars. 119 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:28,120 Speaker 1: He got a second hand for eight thousand. And we'll 120 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:30,880 Speaker 1: get more into the whole story of Stratusis and and 121 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:33,839 Speaker 1: it's involvement in this, because it's an interesting part of 122 00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:35,920 Speaker 1: the story. But we'll save that for a bit later. 123 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:39,960 Speaker 1: So he printed out these fifteen pieces, He got the 124 00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:42,680 Speaker 1: nail to be the sixteenth piece. The nail acted as 125 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:44,359 Speaker 1: the firing pin. Now, this is the part of a 126 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:49,680 Speaker 1: gun that strikes the primer on cartridge so that it ignites, 127 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:53,599 Speaker 1: and then the gases from the cartridge are what propel 128 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:55,760 Speaker 1: the bullet out of the barrel of the gun. Now, 129 00:06:55,760 --> 00:06:58,039 Speaker 1: it doesn't technically need to be metal, but but the 130 00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:00,280 Speaker 1: kind of plastic that they use is just a little 131 00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:03,560 Speaker 1: bit too soft to to strike it without deforming. Right. 132 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:06,400 Speaker 1: So essentially what would happen is the instead of igniting 133 00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:09,239 Speaker 1: the gas, the firing pin was just sort of bending. 134 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:11,960 Speaker 1: So instead of using that, he decided to use a 135 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:15,760 Speaker 1: nail uh and uh and putting it all together. He 136 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:17,880 Speaker 1: wasn't even sure if it was going to hold together 137 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:22,160 Speaker 1: or not, but he assembled the gun using the pieces 138 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:26,280 Speaker 1: that he had designed. Um. And he strapped it up 139 00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:29,400 Speaker 1: to a pole as I recall, and an aluminum a 140 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:32,000 Speaker 1: little bit of scaffolding I think, okay, and uh, and 141 00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:35,240 Speaker 1: he tied a string to it and instead as far 142 00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:38,080 Speaker 1: away as possible, right, and used the string to pull 143 00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:41,400 Speaker 1: the trigger uh and had a successful test. It actually 144 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:46,560 Speaker 1: fired the bullet uh and was and it remained intact. Um. 145 00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:48,440 Speaker 1: That's one of the things that was a big concern 146 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:50,360 Speaker 1: was that if you have a gun that's essentially made 147 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:53,560 Speaker 1: out of plastic would it be able to withstand the 148 00:07:53,560 --> 00:07:58,240 Speaker 1: the forces that a gun experiences when you fire a bullet, 149 00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:01,120 Speaker 1: And in the case of this one, it seemed to 150 00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:05,040 Speaker 1: do that. And he also eventually tested it by firing 151 00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:08,920 Speaker 1: it by hand. Um, you know, it took some It 152 00:08:08,960 --> 00:08:12,400 Speaker 1: took some working up to get to that part, right right. Yeah. 153 00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:15,280 Speaker 1: During the initial test, I believe they had a couple 154 00:08:15,440 --> 00:08:18,880 Speaker 1: of successful firings. But um, but then it it misfired, 155 00:08:19,040 --> 00:08:22,600 Speaker 1: um due to a misalignment issue and uh yeah yeah. 156 00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:26,480 Speaker 1: Now they point out that the gun that as it's designed, 157 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:29,400 Speaker 1: you could actually remove the barrel and replace it with 158 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:32,480 Speaker 1: a new barrel. So uh, if there were parts that 159 00:08:32,520 --> 00:08:35,199 Speaker 1: were that would break down, you could actually replace those 160 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:38,040 Speaker 1: parts just by printing out new ones. But the gun 161 00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:42,560 Speaker 1: itself wouldn't last for more than a few shots. In fact, 162 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:45,839 Speaker 1: one expert I saw said that, in his opinion, if 163 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:49,280 Speaker 1: you were using the best kind of plastic possible, you 164 00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:52,240 Speaker 1: might be able to get between ten and twenty shots. 165 00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:56,520 Speaker 1: Before it just was an unusable machine. Yeah, although, yeah, 166 00:08:56,679 --> 00:08:58,760 Speaker 1: it is designed so that you can snap parts in 167 00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:01,160 Speaker 1: and out right, so you just replace the ones that 168 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:03,760 Speaker 1: are not working anymore, and then you could continue to 169 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:07,240 Speaker 1: fire and it is supposed to be relatively quickly to 170 00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:12,199 Speaker 1: switch those parts out too. Uh. Well, what Wilson also 171 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:16,880 Speaker 1: did was he ended up uploading the design to Mega, 172 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:20,960 Speaker 1: which is kim dot COM's file sharing It's really like 173 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:23,839 Speaker 1: a locker service where you can store files. They're encrypted 174 00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:25,720 Speaker 1: so that no one can see what it is that 175 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:29,240 Speaker 1: you are doing. Um. He uploaded that and made it 176 00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:32,400 Speaker 1: freely available to anyone who wanted to get hold of this. 177 00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:36,079 Speaker 1: Within two days, ten thousand people had downloaded it, and 178 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:38,880 Speaker 1: as of the recording of this podcast, we're recording this 179 00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:44,000 Speaker 1: on May nine. Forbes reported this morning that it had 180 00:09:44,040 --> 00:09:47,720 Speaker 1: been downloaded more than one hundred thousand times. Now, keep 181 00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:51,080 Speaker 1: in mind, not everyone who downloaded that has access to 182 00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:52,720 Speaker 1: a three D printer. All Right, I'm sure that a 183 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:54,600 Speaker 1: lot of that is curiosity. There has been so much 184 00:09:54,679 --> 00:09:56,360 Speaker 1: buzz about it on the Internet that I'm sure that 185 00:09:56,400 --> 00:09:58,400 Speaker 1: a lot of people were just looking at it because 186 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:00,920 Speaker 1: they could. Yeah, I'm sure there's a percent edge of that. 187 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:05,199 Speaker 1: That's just the press that we need to have access 188 00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:06,960 Speaker 1: to this so we can take a look at it. 189 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:09,360 Speaker 1: But uh, and if you're curious about what kind of 190 00:10:09,400 --> 00:10:12,000 Speaker 1: bullet it fired, it was a thirty eight caliber bullet. 191 00:10:12,679 --> 00:10:16,960 Speaker 1: Uh and uh he they I've read that they've designed 192 00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:18,559 Speaker 1: the gun in such a way that you could change 193 00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:21,720 Speaker 1: out the chamber and barrel, which you could fire different 194 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:24,440 Speaker 1: caliber bullets depending upon which ones you were using. But 195 00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:27,160 Speaker 1: thirty eight was what they used for their tests. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 196 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:30,599 Speaker 1: they're for their successful tests. According to a Forbes Andy Greenberg, 197 00:10:30,640 --> 00:10:32,440 Speaker 1: who was on the scene for some of these tests 198 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:34,120 Speaker 1: and has a couple of really great articles that we 199 00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:38,160 Speaker 1: did drawn extensively for for this podcast. Um, they switched 200 00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:40,640 Speaker 1: the barrel out for a rifle cartridge that made the 201 00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:44,400 Speaker 1: entire thing explode into shrapnel. Now what was the name 202 00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:48,920 Speaker 1: of this gun? They're calling it the Liberator? Yeah, this 203 00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:52,160 Speaker 1: this might be something that history buffs recognized from World 204 00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:56,280 Speaker 1: War Two. Um. During World War Two, the Allies, specifically 205 00:10:56,320 --> 00:10:59,160 Speaker 1: the United States, I believe, Yeah, they manufactured these one 206 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:02,600 Speaker 1: shot for fives. There were one shot pistols, meaning that 207 00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:04,960 Speaker 1: you could fire them once and then that's it. It's 208 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:07,520 Speaker 1: just not designed to shoot more than one time. And 209 00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:10,720 Speaker 1: the whole the whole purpose of this was to drop 210 00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:15,679 Speaker 1: these forty five behind enemy lines and occupied territories occupied France, right, 211 00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:19,160 Speaker 1: The idea being that that the French population would suddenly 212 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:22,240 Speaker 1: have access to weapons, but you can only fire at once. 213 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:24,520 Speaker 1: It really wasn't a practical weapon. In fact, I don't 214 00:11:24,559 --> 00:11:27,640 Speaker 1: think that the Allies ever considered it to be something 215 00:11:27,679 --> 00:11:30,880 Speaker 1: that would allow a real tied to turn. It was 216 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:34,720 Speaker 1: more of an attempt to demoralize the Access powers rather 217 00:11:34,840 --> 00:11:39,520 Speaker 1: than to actually foment some form of revolution and propaganda 218 00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:42,400 Speaker 1: was was a really interesting technology that was used in 219 00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:44,240 Speaker 1: World War Two. Yeah, so this is one of those 220 00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:47,480 Speaker 1: examples of propaganda that don't doesn't involve like a song 221 00:11:47,679 --> 00:11:50,120 Speaker 1: or a poster or a movie. It was actually an act, 222 00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:52,120 Speaker 1: and in this case, it was an act of distributing 223 00:11:52,760 --> 00:11:59,000 Speaker 1: uh weapons of limited use to an occupied country. And 224 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:02,080 Speaker 1: from what I understand, it doesn't look like it doesn't 225 00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:03,839 Speaker 1: look like all of them, or even most of them 226 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:06,320 Speaker 1: were ever actually distributed. It was. There's a little bit 227 00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:08,640 Speaker 1: of contention about whether or not they were and to 228 00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:11,120 Speaker 1: whom and when and how many, but and from why 229 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:16,520 Speaker 1: I understand most of them most of them without But anyway, 230 00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:21,480 Speaker 1: Wilson apparently wanted to to take that name, and uh, 231 00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:24,960 Speaker 1: it kind of goes along with his philosophy. But his 232 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:28,400 Speaker 1: philosophy is interesting. We will cover that in this episode, 233 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:30,200 Speaker 1: but I think we're going to save that for the 234 00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:35,680 Speaker 1: end because it's it's pretty it's pretty dynamic. It is dynamic. 235 00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:38,439 Speaker 1: It's intense, is what it is. So yeah, a hundred 236 00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:41,160 Speaker 1: thousand folks around or at least a hundred thousand people 237 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:44,040 Speaker 1: have downloaded these plans as of the recording this podcast. 238 00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:46,400 Speaker 1: By the time this publishes, I'm sure that number will 239 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:50,840 Speaker 1: be way bigger. Ye. Yeah, well, I mean, as you 240 00:12:50,880 --> 00:12:53,040 Speaker 1: could have everyone just lose interest, but I don't think 241 00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:56,440 Speaker 1: that's going to happen with this particular product. So, uh, 242 00:12:56,640 --> 00:13:00,840 Speaker 1: that's that's where the actual logistics sre. That's you know 243 00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:03,520 Speaker 1: what the state of the gun is. The gun, by 244 00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:05,440 Speaker 1: the way, if you ever have if you haven't seen 245 00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:08,720 Speaker 1: a picture of it, it looks really clunky and it 246 00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:10,680 Speaker 1: has to be because that plastic has to be pretty 247 00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:13,360 Speaker 1: thick to withstand the pressures. And we'll talk more about 248 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:16,280 Speaker 1: what those actually are in the in the next section. 249 00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:20,120 Speaker 1: But um, it's not a sleek weapon by any means. 250 00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:22,200 Speaker 1: It is not, no, no, And I mean you know 251 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:24,760 Speaker 1: the kind of plastics that are that are being used 252 00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:26,400 Speaker 1: are Um, it's it's a b S which is a 253 00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:30,000 Speaker 1: krylum nitrial butt to dyeing styrene um. It's a it's 254 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:33,520 Speaker 1: a thermoplastic blend. It's used in lots of everyday items 255 00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:37,280 Speaker 1: like like molded tool handles, electric shavers, lego bricks are 256 00:13:37,280 --> 00:13:40,600 Speaker 1: made of this stuff. So wow, And we'll talk a 257 00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:43,440 Speaker 1: little bit about why that causes a concern, you know, 258 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:46,280 Speaker 1: the materials used, but before we really get into the 259 00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:50,400 Speaker 1: concerns and and you know, the philosophy of of Cody 260 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:54,319 Speaker 1: Wilson and other elements and the response that we've seen 261 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:58,240 Speaker 1: so far, and these are early days when we're recording this. Guys, 262 00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:01,120 Speaker 1: we're gonna take a quick break from this classic episode 263 00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:11,679 Speaker 1: to thank our sponsors, but we'll be right back. Okay, 264 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:14,079 Speaker 1: getting back into the subject at hand. There are a 265 00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:16,600 Speaker 1: lot of concerns that come up with this idea of 266 00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:19,720 Speaker 1: being able to print a gun at home. Some of 267 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:22,680 Speaker 1: these you might think of as knee jerk responses that 268 00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:25,840 Speaker 1: that don't take everything into account, But I think there 269 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:28,520 Speaker 1: are some concerns that are you can't just dismiss easily. 270 00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:31,680 Speaker 1: One is that if you're talking about a plastic gun, 271 00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:34,160 Speaker 1: let's say that a plastic gun is being used in 272 00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:37,560 Speaker 1: a crime. Uh, the concern is that you wouldn't really 273 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:40,800 Speaker 1: be able to trace that gun back. You know, guns 274 00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:43,680 Speaker 1: right now have these grooves that are in the barrels 275 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:45,680 Speaker 1: so that when you fire the bullet, it makes the 276 00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:49,040 Speaker 1: bullets start to spin, giving it more stability, but it 277 00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:53,320 Speaker 1: also ends up carving uh into the specific pattern. Yeah, 278 00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:55,600 Speaker 1: and so by looking at the pattern, you can identify 279 00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:58,560 Speaker 1: depending on how what shape the bullets in, you can 280 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:02,120 Speaker 1: identify the type of firearm that fired that bullet. If 281 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:07,080 Speaker 1: you're talking about a smooth barreled, plastic gun, there's no 282 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:09,880 Speaker 1: way of telling. And even if it had some sort 283 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:12,760 Speaker 1: of grooves in it, you could design those in such 284 00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:15,400 Speaker 1: a way where it's unique to your gun, but without 285 00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:18,120 Speaker 1: anyone being able to tell it could be designed. It 286 00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:20,520 Speaker 1: could be literally unique to your gun. No one would 287 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:23,160 Speaker 1: know where to even start looking for that, because if 288 00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:25,080 Speaker 1: it's all just a file on your computer, how would 289 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:28,560 Speaker 1: how would anyone know unless they're already watching you. I'm 290 00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:30,080 Speaker 1: not even gonna get into that because I think that's 291 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:33,400 Speaker 1: what fuels the whole Liberator in the first place. But 292 00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:36,760 Speaker 1: the you know, that's that's the concern is that if 293 00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:38,400 Speaker 1: it was used in a crime, it would be very 294 00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:43,000 Speaker 1: difficult if not impossible to trace back. Uh. They're also undetectable, 295 00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:45,200 Speaker 1: meaning that if you only have a tiny amount of 296 00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:47,400 Speaker 1: metal in them and you go through a metal detector, 297 00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:49,560 Speaker 1: the metal detector may not it might not pick up 298 00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:52,400 Speaker 1: that mail. Yeah. Now, now, in this case, Cody Wilson 299 00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:56,480 Speaker 1: was actually very careful about following um the letter, if 300 00:15:56,520 --> 00:15:58,200 Speaker 1: not at all the spirit of the law. In the 301 00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:02,040 Speaker 1: creation of this he um Uh. He took his company 302 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:06,479 Speaker 1: to the US Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives 303 00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:09,840 Speaker 1: in order to get a federal license to manufacture and 304 00:16:09,840 --> 00:16:15,080 Speaker 1: distribute firearms, and furthermore, put a small metal cube at 305 00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:18,400 Speaker 1: completely non functional six ounds metal cube into the gun 306 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:22,240 Speaker 1: to make it detectable by metal detectives. Right, because the 307 00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:26,080 Speaker 1: US Undetectable Firearms Act makes it illegal to manufacture any 308 00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:29,120 Speaker 1: sort of undetectable weapon. Because this this isn't the first 309 00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:32,480 Speaker 1: time that a potentially undetectable weapon has been made. You can. 310 00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:36,440 Speaker 1: They're guns that use ceramic. There are other plastic weapons 311 00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:39,000 Speaker 1: as well that have used molded plastic as opposed to 312 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:43,120 Speaker 1: three D printed plastic. But uh, that was a big concern. 313 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:46,480 Speaker 1: So now he followed the rules. Wilson did his his 314 00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:48,560 Speaker 1: version of the gun in fact had that metal in it, 315 00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:51,280 Speaker 1: so it was not undetectable. But here's but nothing saying 316 00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:54,360 Speaker 1: that someone who downloads that would still have the same 317 00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:56,760 Speaker 1: ye follow the same rules. If you download the blueprint 318 00:16:56,760 --> 00:16:58,520 Speaker 1: and printed it out yourself, you could be you could 319 00:16:58,520 --> 00:16:59,960 Speaker 1: just say, well, I'm not I'm not going to put 320 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:02,800 Speaker 1: the metal slug in there, and therefore it is going 321 00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:05,720 Speaker 1: to be virtually undetectable by a metal detector. And however, 322 00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:07,800 Speaker 1: we should mention that that those three D scanners that 323 00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:09,679 Speaker 1: they've put in a lot of airports would pick the 324 00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:11,440 Speaker 1: gun up. It would be able to recognize it on 325 00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:15,480 Speaker 1: on your person, right. So so if if you're using 326 00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:17,199 Speaker 1: a three D scanner, it's still going to pick these 327 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:20,480 Speaker 1: things up. If you are using just metal detectors, it wouldn't, 328 00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:25,240 Speaker 1: So that that's raised some security concerns obviously. Um and uh, 329 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:29,480 Speaker 1: you know, Wilson, I think he took some perverse joy 330 00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:32,639 Speaker 1: and the fact that he was following the law while 331 00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:40,359 Speaker 1: creating something that is potentially incredibly disruptive. Absolutely, he's are 332 00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:44,160 Speaker 1: we getting into. But I think it's fair to say 333 00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:47,520 Speaker 1: that he took some pleasure. And they did. They did 334 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:50,600 Speaker 1: install a metal detector or walk through metal detector in 335 00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:53,080 Speaker 1: their workshop for testing to make sure that that that 336 00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:56,879 Speaker 1: met those requirements. Uh and uh. So to get to 337 00:17:56,960 --> 00:18:00,280 Speaker 1: other concerns beyond the fact that you can't trade sit 338 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:05,680 Speaker 1: you can't necessarily detect it. Um. Another concerns there's there's 339 00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:09,200 Speaker 1: no background check, right if you download those plans, there's 340 00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:12,840 Speaker 1: no control there about who gets access to that gun. 341 00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:17,160 Speaker 1: So in the United States, convicts can't you know, people 342 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:19,240 Speaker 1: who have been convicted of a felony, they can't buy 343 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:22,240 Speaker 1: a gun legally in the United States. I mean, they 344 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:24,640 Speaker 1: could buy it illegally, but you can't go through any 345 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:28,280 Speaker 1: legal means of buying it. Um. That's what the whole 346 00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:31,679 Speaker 1: background check thing is supposed to protect against in the 347 00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:34,679 Speaker 1: United States. So this bypasses it. If you are able, 348 00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:37,240 Speaker 1: if you have the means or the access to a 349 00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:40,280 Speaker 1: three D printer, and you have a criminal record and 350 00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:43,400 Speaker 1: you otherwise could not legally buy a firearm, you could 351 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:46,240 Speaker 1: make one yourself this way. And that's something that a 352 00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:48,360 Speaker 1: lot of critics have pointed out, saying you have just 353 00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:53,760 Speaker 1: invalidated this whole part of the system. Wilson, for his part, 354 00:18:54,119 --> 00:18:57,040 Speaker 1: not a big fan of gun control, that doesn't seem 355 00:18:57,080 --> 00:18:59,280 Speaker 1: to be very concerned about that so much though that 356 00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:02,800 Speaker 1: in March he released a video of a three D 357 00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:05,359 Speaker 1: printable UM A R fifteen lower receiver, which is the 358 00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:08,000 Speaker 1: part that's regulated. UM. The rest of the parts you 359 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:11,439 Speaker 1: can purchase without without all that much trouble and UM 360 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:15,960 Speaker 1: and that hypothetically could lock into these these other purchasable 361 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:19,200 Speaker 1: parts and UH. And thus you know, again bypassed by 362 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:22,440 Speaker 1: passing that whole problem, or what at what he saw 363 00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:25,240 Speaker 1: as a problem. Uh. Other things that you have to 364 00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:28,600 Speaker 1: keep in mind. Remember we were talking about that plastic earlier, 365 00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:30,680 Speaker 1: about how how strong it was, and the type of 366 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:33,840 Speaker 1: plastic used and the type of printer being used. UH. 367 00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:37,920 Speaker 1: Jonathan Rally, who's a three D printing expert UM said 368 00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:41,880 Speaker 1: in The Guardian that that you have to be really 369 00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:44,280 Speaker 1: careful because not everyone out there has access to the 370 00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:45,920 Speaker 1: same sort of three D printers, were the same sort 371 00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:50,120 Speaker 1: of raw materials being used. And just because one printed 372 00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:53,040 Speaker 1: gun was able to withstand the pressure and force that 373 00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:57,080 Speaker 1: a that this that the liberator did in the initial tests, 374 00:19:57,359 --> 00:19:59,920 Speaker 1: it doesn't mean that something that you print using a 375 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:02,320 Speaker 1: different kind of printer could do the same thing. Um. 376 00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:06,200 Speaker 1: It may be that the material you print is weaker 377 00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:09,720 Speaker 1: than the one that that Wilson used, and Wilson Wilson 378 00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:12,240 Speaker 1: also did treat the plastics after they were printed in 379 00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:15,600 Speaker 1: order to make them stronger. So you could potentially end 380 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:18,160 Speaker 1: up with a device that could explode in your hand 381 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:21,800 Speaker 1: and cause you huge amounts of damage, if not even 382 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:24,200 Speaker 1: kill you right out, you know, out right. In fact, 383 00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:27,199 Speaker 1: he said that it's far more likely someone will be 384 00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:31,639 Speaker 1: injured by a failing weapon before anyone is ever deliberately shot. 385 00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:35,840 Speaker 1: But so uh that that was his big concern was 386 00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:38,320 Speaker 1: not only is it something that could potentially, you know, 387 00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:40,600 Speaker 1: one person could potentially used to kill someone else, it's 388 00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:43,760 Speaker 1: something that someone who's just curious about it could end 389 00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:47,720 Speaker 1: up severely injuring themselves because the materials they're using just 390 00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:49,840 Speaker 1: can't hold up to the pressures and even even unit 391 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:52,200 Speaker 1: to unit um uh you know, and any anything that 392 00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:55,280 Speaker 1: you've printed like that could be misaligned, uh, you know, 393 00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:57,840 Speaker 1: on a relatively small scale that you might not be 394 00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:00,640 Speaker 1: able to see from the outside of the right. Yeah, 395 00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:02,440 Speaker 1: if you if your printer does not have the same 396 00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:04,800 Speaker 1: level of precision, then that could also be a problem. 397 00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:07,360 Speaker 1: Things couldnt be things might not be in the right alignment, 398 00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:09,840 Speaker 1: because fair if just something glarps into the wrong place, 399 00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:12,360 Speaker 1: that's you know that that can be glarping is an 400 00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:15,000 Speaker 1: issue that there's also the problem that there could be 401 00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:18,840 Speaker 1: uh nylon plastic powder within the barrel itself, which can 402 00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:22,359 Speaker 1: be flammable and could actually cause an explosion in your hand, 403 00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:25,520 Speaker 1: because you know, you're talking about this intense heat and pressure. 404 00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:27,679 Speaker 1: In fact, let's talk about that for a second. According 405 00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:30,679 Speaker 1: to the Guardian, the pressure inside a gun typically reaches 406 00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:35,000 Speaker 1: about a thousand atmospheres and temperatures exceed two hundred degrees 407 00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:38,880 Speaker 1: celsius when you fire off a gun. So the gun 408 00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:41,960 Speaker 1: the bullets flying out because of the expanding gas that 409 00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:45,320 Speaker 1: is created when the primary ignites and gets the propellant 410 00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:47,959 Speaker 1: going right. So this expanding gas is what pushes that 411 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:52,760 Speaker 1: bullet out. According again, according to the Guardian, about of 412 00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:55,639 Speaker 1: that energy from the expanded gas transfers to the bullet. 413 00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:59,520 Speaker 1: Another thirty percent of the energy transfers to the barrel 414 00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:02,960 Speaker 1: in the four of heat and heat tends to weaken plastic. 415 00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:07,240 Speaker 1: So if you aren't using heat treated plastic, or you're 416 00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:09,840 Speaker 1: using a weaker kind of plastic, that might be enough 417 00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:13,480 Speaker 1: for that gun to shatter in your hands or otherwise 418 00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:15,879 Speaker 1: fail in a way that could cause you some pretty 419 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:19,320 Speaker 1: serious injury. And uh, Philip Boyce, who was an expert 420 00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:22,119 Speaker 1: with forensic scientific he's the one who said that with 421 00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:24,920 Speaker 1: a really good plastic gun you might get off as 422 00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:27,840 Speaker 1: many as ten to twenty shots before it failed. So 423 00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:32,159 Speaker 1: beyond that, these guns aren't necessarily that accurate. You know, 424 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:36,040 Speaker 1: if it's a smooth barrel gun, Uh, it's not necessarily 425 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:41,240 Speaker 1: going to guide the bullet in any way. That's yeah, 426 00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:42,960 Speaker 1: it would be one of those things where you know, 427 00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:45,840 Speaker 1: the closer you are, obviously are to whatever the target 428 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:47,960 Speaker 1: is that you're aiming at, the more likely you'll hit it. 429 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:50,679 Speaker 1: But you might wind up just being a you know, 430 00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:55,520 Speaker 1: a stormtrooper. Yeah, lots of pe pe, very little actual 431 00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:58,560 Speaker 1: and when you've only got you know, up to ten bullets, 432 00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:04,040 Speaker 1: that's not yeah. So so this has prompted many politicians 433 00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:09,720 Speaker 1: and law enforcement officials to come out and criticize this 434 00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:11,920 Speaker 1: whole idea of three D printed guns. It's not a 435 00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:15,879 Speaker 1: big surprise, you know. I mentioned earlier that the printer 436 00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:21,040 Speaker 1: that Wilson used was purchased the Stratusis Dimension S S 437 00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:24,080 Speaker 1: T three D printer Uh, they actually were using a 438 00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:26,800 Speaker 1: least one originally from the company. Yeah, they leased it 439 00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:31,280 Speaker 1: from Stratusis. But as of October, Stratusis figured out what 440 00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:34,440 Speaker 1: they were doing and seized their property back and said 441 00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:37,920 Speaker 1: no thanks. Yeah, and you might say, why would why 442 00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:41,720 Speaker 1: do they care? They care because three D printer companies, 443 00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:44,960 Speaker 1: the companies that are designing these things for consumers, Uh, 444 00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:47,040 Speaker 1: they don't want the government to come in and start 445 00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:50,760 Speaker 1: regulating and legislating the stuff they make because that's going 446 00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:54,480 Speaker 1: to affect their business. So it could get really expensive, 447 00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:58,560 Speaker 1: it could get to be a huge just licensing issue. Right. Uh, 448 00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:00,920 Speaker 1: you guys might not be aware of this, but three 449 00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:03,520 Speaker 1: D s are not three D scanners, but color scanners. 450 00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:07,960 Speaker 1: Color scanners have have technology built into them that will 451 00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:11,760 Speaker 1: prevent them from doing things like copying and reproducing currency. 452 00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:15,240 Speaker 1: It's a form of DRM. Yeah, it's really yeah, it 453 00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:18,320 Speaker 1: really kind of is. It's it's this idea of protecting 454 00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:20,720 Speaker 1: it so that, you know, counterfeiters can't just sit there 455 00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:24,120 Speaker 1: at home and scan and print money. Because once scanner's 456 00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:26,800 Speaker 1: got to be that specific, that became an issue. So 457 00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:29,120 Speaker 1: you build that into the device itself where it will 458 00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:33,080 Speaker 1: not uh copy and print that kind of thing, The 459 00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:35,280 Speaker 1: same sort of thing may be true with three D printers. 460 00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:38,600 Speaker 1: Politicians might say, you have to find a way to 461 00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:43,280 Speaker 1: prevent people from printing this particular type of peace, and 462 00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:45,719 Speaker 1: then suddenly they have to implement that. That drives up 463 00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:48,040 Speaker 1: production costs for the three D printer side. It drives 464 00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:50,240 Speaker 1: up the consumer costs for three D printers. That hurts 465 00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:53,680 Speaker 1: the whole industry. That's that's the viewpoint of the manufacturers 466 00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:56,639 Speaker 1: and why they would not be so keen on having 467 00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:59,879 Speaker 1: their own materials made to build something like a gu 468 00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:04,040 Speaker 1: Lauren and I have more to say about printing a 469 00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:06,919 Speaker 1: gun in just a moment, but first let's take another 470 00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:17,199 Speaker 1: quick break to thank our sponsors. So you had the 471 00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:19,639 Speaker 1: concern from the companies there as far as the politicians 472 00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:22,480 Speaker 1: and law enforcement goes. Law enforcement in the UK, the 473 00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:26,440 Speaker 1: Metropolitan Police pointed out that making or owning a gun 474 00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:29,400 Speaker 1: like this would be illegal unless you were a registered 475 00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:33,400 Speaker 1: firearms dealer with the proper credentials and quote unquote authorities. 476 00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:37,720 Speaker 1: Otherwise it would just owning a gun like this in 477 00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:40,760 Speaker 1: the UK would be considered illegal. Um, if you used 478 00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:44,200 Speaker 1: in in any way then that would get you a 479 00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:47,280 Speaker 1: pretty stiff penalty. UH. In the United States, there were 480 00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:50,880 Speaker 1: senators from California, Senators and congress people, i should say, 481 00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:55,480 Speaker 1: and council members in one case from California, Washington, D C. 482 00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:58,800 Speaker 1: And New York who have all expressed concern about three 483 00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:02,200 Speaker 1: D printing gun printed gun and UH talked about getting 484 00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:04,960 Speaker 1: coming up with legislation that can prevent it, helping helping 485 00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:07,560 Speaker 1: to revamp that Undetectable Firearms Act that we were talking 486 00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:11,040 Speaker 1: about earlier. This makes it complicated because there's really only 487 00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:13,320 Speaker 1: so much that you can do from a legal perspective, 488 00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:15,520 Speaker 1: like how do you how do you prevent something? The 489 00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:17,520 Speaker 1: cat's already out of the bag. You know, a hundred 490 00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:21,960 Speaker 1: thousand people have downloaded this as of today when we're 491 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:25,120 Speaker 1: recording this, So it's you know, it's kind of hard 492 00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:28,080 Speaker 1: to say, let's stop this from happening now. It's we 493 00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:31,040 Speaker 1: all know that once something's on the Internet, it's forever. 494 00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:34,160 Speaker 1: Internet is forever. Yeah, So I did want to mention 495 00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:36,560 Speaker 1: that on the private side, there were other roadblocks to 496 00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:39,399 Speaker 1: the actual creation of this thing. UH. Wilson had his 497 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:43,240 Speaker 1: crowdfunding campaign campaign through indie go go shut down UM 498 00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:47,800 Speaker 1: in August. UM also two workshop spaces that he had 499 00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:49,960 Speaker 1: been using, denied him access after learning what he was 500 00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:53,280 Speaker 1: up to, and furthermore, he originally had some of these 501 00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:57,160 Speaker 1: files up on thing verse by MakerBot and maker butt 502 00:26:57,280 --> 00:26:59,439 Speaker 1: to it down, took it down. Yeah, the three D 503 00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:03,080 Speaker 1: printing unity in general is reacting to this in very 504 00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:05,560 Speaker 1: much the same sort of way, saying that you know, 505 00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:10,399 Speaker 1: now you're bringing unwanted attention to our our our industry 506 00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:13,920 Speaker 1: or our hobby. Uh. You know, they've always said there's 507 00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:16,479 Speaker 1: going to be a disruptive kind of technology, but they 508 00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:19,520 Speaker 1: never thought of it in the terms of they didn't 509 00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:23,400 Speaker 1: frame it in the terms of disruptive being potentially violent, 510 00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:26,840 Speaker 1: which is not what Wilson is saying, although he also 511 00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:30,760 Speaker 1: really deflects any kind of criticism that even wanders towards 512 00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:34,320 Speaker 1: the violence question. Uh, to the point where, Uh, there 513 00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:36,240 Speaker 1: are times where I was reading some of his responses 514 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:38,760 Speaker 1: when I'm thinking, like this guy took notes in the 515 00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:41,400 Speaker 1: second Matrix movie and said, how can I talk more 516 00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:44,280 Speaker 1: like the architect where I say a lot but don't 517 00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:48,040 Speaker 1: really say anything, or at least don't answer any questions. 518 00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:51,320 Speaker 1: I think that's fair, you know, I I've read it's 519 00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:54,520 Speaker 1: it's harsh, it's hard criticism. But but yeah, we've the 520 00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:56,879 Speaker 1: two of us both have probably read a lot of 521 00:27:56,880 --> 00:28:00,520 Speaker 1: things that that Wilson said. Well, not only that he said, 522 00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:03,200 Speaker 1: but what he wouldn't say, Like if anyone confronted him 523 00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:08,120 Speaker 1: directly with questions about, well, what about folks who uh, 524 00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:10,240 Speaker 1: you know, like convicts, are you saying that convicts should 525 00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:12,760 Speaker 1: have access to weapons? And instead of answering that question, 526 00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:16,560 Speaker 1: he would deflect it into something else philosophical. So he 527 00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:20,240 Speaker 1: he just refuses to answer those sort of things. Um, 528 00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:24,479 Speaker 1: so he may very well have coherent and uh and 529 00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:28,400 Speaker 1: and a good strong argument for that sort of case, 530 00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:33,000 Speaker 1: but he's not presenting it. So the recording of this 531 00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:35,720 Speaker 1: podcast right might maybe maybe by this afternoon he said 532 00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:39,960 Speaker 1: something that completely addresses my concerns. But he's described himself 533 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:45,240 Speaker 1: as a cryptoanarchist, which that already should kind of raise 534 00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:51,160 Speaker 1: h alarm flags for certain people. Anarchy is a tough 535 00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:55,960 Speaker 1: position to really defend. I think it is, and and 536 00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:59,920 Speaker 1: that this is getting into into a personal personal philosophy 537 00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:02,560 Speaker 1: here and uh and and Jonathan and I are are 538 00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:06,680 Speaker 1: a little bit more touchy feely, We're okay. So the 539 00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:09,520 Speaker 1: way I view it is that he's taken a particular 540 00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:15,080 Speaker 1: stance where uh, he's really put a lot of value 541 00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:18,160 Speaker 1: on the individual, which I don't disagree with. I think, 542 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:21,640 Speaker 1: you know, individuality is very important. Individual freedoms are very important. 543 00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:24,160 Speaker 1: And of course there's you know, all the different arguments 544 00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:27,080 Speaker 1: you can make about how if you trade liberty for 545 00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:29,960 Speaker 1: security then you don't really have either that. I've heard 546 00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:34,360 Speaker 1: all these arguments before. Um, but uh, you know, there 547 00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:39,240 Speaker 1: he seems very dismissive of the idea of governments in general, 548 00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:43,040 Speaker 1: so essentially saying that the system is broken, and not 549 00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:45,920 Speaker 1: only is it broken, but it cannot be fixed. That 550 00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:49,640 Speaker 1: at this point the government system is completely beholden to 551 00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:53,760 Speaker 1: special interests and corporations, it does not truly represent people, 552 00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:56,400 Speaker 1: it's doing more harm than good, it's getting more and 553 00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:59,720 Speaker 1: more intrusive in our daily lives, and and and there's 554 00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:02,240 Speaker 1: no way to fix it, and that therefore it must 555 00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:05,040 Speaker 1: be destroyed from the inside. Yeah, or at least at 556 00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:08,640 Speaker 1: least ignored, right, right, Really, he doesn't so much stepped 557 00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:13,000 Speaker 1: outside of and said, yeah, he's he's not necessarily condoning 558 00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:16,840 Speaker 1: that we all rise up against our tyrannical overlords, but 559 00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:21,120 Speaker 1: necessarily more like, let's just not pay attention to them anymore. Which, yeah, 560 00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:23,440 Speaker 1: there's there's there's a quote on the website of Defense 561 00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:26,479 Speaker 1: Distributed where it says, how do government's behave if they 562 00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:28,880 Speaker 1: must one day operate on the assumption that any and 563 00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:31,800 Speaker 1: every citizen has near instant access to a firearm through 564 00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:37,120 Speaker 1: the Internet. Let's find out? Yeah, so, I mean here, 565 00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:40,880 Speaker 1: here's here's my view. The three D printing of guns 566 00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:43,360 Speaker 1: was something that was going to happen. It was bound 567 00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:46,640 Speaker 1: to happen, uh, sooner or later. It just happened to 568 00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:50,840 Speaker 1: happen in uh, and there is going to have to 569 00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:53,360 Speaker 1: be a reaction to that, Like what's the right way 570 00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:57,959 Speaker 1: of handling this? The cavalier attitude of Cody Wilson seems 571 00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:01,680 Speaker 1: specifically geared to get a ry is out of people, absolutely, 572 00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:04,120 Speaker 1: and and you know, like and he's and he's so intelligent, 573 00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:07,640 Speaker 1: and he quotes these these really great philosophers when he's 574 00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:09,960 Speaker 1: talking about all of these the you know, he talks 575 00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:13,000 Speaker 1: about for co and how liberty is under siege from 576 00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:16,040 Speaker 1: the vast machine of the ruling class control and and 577 00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:18,200 Speaker 1: about you know, Milton and how in order to be 578 00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:21,000 Speaker 1: truly good you must be presented with the freedom to 579 00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:24,560 Speaker 1: be evil. Um right, we're getting into some clockwork orange 580 00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:26,240 Speaker 1: type stuff at this point, and it's and it's that 581 00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:30,480 Speaker 1: kind of thing that you know, is intellectually delightful to discuss. 582 00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:33,840 Speaker 1: But but when when you get into practical matters, uh, 583 00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:37,160 Speaker 1: some problems rise up, right, right. So, if we lived 584 00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:41,560 Speaker 1: in a storybook world where governments were the evil stepmother 585 00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:47,000 Speaker 1: and we're all the perky little protagonist who the poor orphan, 586 00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:50,400 Speaker 1: who's who's pure of heart and has the best of intentions, 587 00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:53,000 Speaker 1: that's one thing, right, that's of course you want the 588 00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:56,600 Speaker 1: protagonist to win. But reality is way more murky. I 589 00:31:56,600 --> 00:31:59,880 Speaker 1: wouldn't go so far as to say government is inherently evil, 590 00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:02,240 Speaker 1: nor would I go so far as to say individuals 591 00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:05,400 Speaker 1: are inherently good. There's so much shade of gray on 592 00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:07,640 Speaker 1: all sides, of sides. Yeah, And it's it's really people 593 00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:09,400 Speaker 1: that make up a government. Some people are good, some 594 00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:11,640 Speaker 1: people are not so good. And and that's true within 595 00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:14,640 Speaker 1: the population, where within the ruling class and some systems, 596 00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:18,239 Speaker 1: maybe they are maybe they favor the people who are 597 00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:19,920 Speaker 1: not so good over the ones that are good. And 598 00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:22,280 Speaker 1: that just means to me that you have to fix 599 00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:25,760 Speaker 1: the system. Now, to Wilson, it seems to me you 600 00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:29,280 Speaker 1: should abandoned the system altogether. I just don't understand what 601 00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:32,840 Speaker 1: replaces it. Uh. And one of his quotes was it 602 00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:35,360 Speaker 1: seemed very tongue in cheek to me, but it was 603 00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:38,360 Speaker 1: and I'm paraphrasing here, but he was essentially saying that 604 00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:41,680 Speaker 1: he was he would imagine a future where, uh, the 605 00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:46,360 Speaker 1: the individual citizen is making everything that they need using 606 00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:50,760 Speaker 1: things like three D printers, and meanwhile, government funded drones 607 00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:55,080 Speaker 1: are flying overheads searching out all the dissidents, and that 608 00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:57,600 Speaker 1: he's eager to see this future come to pass. And 609 00:32:57,640 --> 00:32:59,960 Speaker 1: I'm thinking, I don't want to live in the road 610 00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:04,160 Speaker 1: would warrior world, I look really bad in spiky shoulder paths. 611 00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:09,680 Speaker 1: I don't. I don't want to go to Bartertown. Master 612 00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:15,040 Speaker 1: Blaster scares me so anyway. But that's that's kind of 613 00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:18,920 Speaker 1: like his his philosophy, And UM, you know, I'm not 614 00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:22,000 Speaker 1: gonna go any further about what my own personal philosophy is. 615 00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:24,280 Speaker 1: I think it's fairly clear already from what I've said, 616 00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:28,240 Speaker 1: but I definitely, I definitely find it troubling. But I mean, 617 00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:29,960 Speaker 1: now it's a fact of life, so now we do 618 00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:31,840 Speaker 1: have to deal with it, and we were gonna have 619 00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:35,280 Speaker 1: to deal with it sometime or other. So it's not 620 00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:37,800 Speaker 1: like I'm not gonna get too angry at Wilson for 621 00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:41,080 Speaker 1: doing this because someone was going to right the way 622 00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:44,440 Speaker 1: he's done. It is a little more snarky than I 623 00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:49,120 Speaker 1: would have cared for, but you know, that's that's life. Um. 624 00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:52,160 Speaker 1: So it'll be interesting to see how this, how this 625 00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:56,280 Speaker 1: plays out, whether or not, uh, it ends up even 626 00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:59,080 Speaker 1: being a big deal. It's completely possible that this ends 627 00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:02,880 Speaker 1: up being far more fuss than what it it's worth, right, 628 00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:06,320 Speaker 1: especially for another few years, you know, before before people 629 00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:07,720 Speaker 1: have I mean, you know, right now this kind of 630 00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:11,120 Speaker 1: technology costs about ten grand to get access to. It's 631 00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:14,839 Speaker 1: way easier to go ahead and get a gun, even illegally. 632 00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:17,560 Speaker 1: That's less money. Yeah, yeah, or I'm you know, like 633 00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:20,720 Speaker 1: hypothetically you could make one yourself for under ten grand, 634 00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:23,000 Speaker 1: if sure. I mean, that's you know, it's a lot 635 00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:25,480 Speaker 1: of knowledge that you have to bend to that to 636 00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:27,319 Speaker 1: to you know, you know, file all the metal and 637 00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:30,040 Speaker 1: do all the everything you had machine the parts and 638 00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:33,520 Speaker 1: but but I mean, you know, people have been making 639 00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:36,759 Speaker 1: their own firearms for what four years? Yeah, and it's 640 00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:38,879 Speaker 1: even legal to make your own firearms under a very 641 00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:42,880 Speaker 1: specific criteria in several countries and clean United States. But 642 00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:45,360 Speaker 1: so really, when you when you look at that level, 643 00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:48,560 Speaker 1: it's not like, um, it's not like this is the 644 00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:51,840 Speaker 1: most unheard of thing in the world. It's new, which 645 00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:55,040 Speaker 1: is part of why it's a little and it's it's digital, 646 00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:57,960 Speaker 1: which which a lot of people get kind of titchy about. Right, 647 00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:00,000 Speaker 1: same sort of thing that you know, the music industry, 648 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:02,920 Speaker 1: removing industry, television industry, they all got worried because it 649 00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:05,000 Speaker 1: meant that you could distribute something on a much wider 650 00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:08,239 Speaker 1: scale than before. But yeah, we're not quite to the 651 00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:10,520 Speaker 1: point where everyone's going to be printing out their own guns, 652 00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:13,400 Speaker 1: especially with ones that are going to be reliable and 653 00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:16,120 Speaker 1: not just blow up, and they're reliable enough to to 654 00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:19,520 Speaker 1: actually want to use. And that wraps up this classic 655 00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:23,480 Speaker 1: episode of tech Stuff. If you have suggestions for future 656 00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:27,480 Speaker 1: tech Stuff topics, please reach out to suggest them to 657 00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:30,399 Speaker 1: me or else I won't know about it. You can 658 00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:33,080 Speaker 1: reach out on Twitter or on Facebook. I use the 659 00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:36,279 Speaker 1: same handle at both. It's Text Stuff h s W 660 00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:44,080 Speaker 1: and I'll talk to you again really soon. Text Stuff 661 00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:47,359 Speaker 1: is an I Heart radio production. For more podcasts from 662 00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:51,120 Speaker 1: my heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, 663 00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:53,240 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.