WEBVTT - How the Bezos Earth Fund spends its billions 0:00:00.600 --> 0:00:05.840 Welcome to zero. I'm akshatrati this week, my money, your money, 0:00:06.200 --> 0:00:22.680 and Jeff's money. In February twenty twenty, Jeff Bezos, then 0:00:22.800 --> 0:00:25.439 the richest person on the planet, posted a picture to 0:00:25.480 --> 0:00:30.080 his four million Instagram followers. It showed the Earth from space, 0:00:30.480 --> 0:00:34.040 the North American continent peaking out from behind the clouds, 0:00:34.400 --> 0:00:37.760 and accompanying the post was a big announcement he was 0:00:37.800 --> 0:00:41.600 committing ten billion dollars to launch the Bezos Earth Fund. 0:00:42.720 --> 0:00:45.840 It is the largest commitment to climate philanthropy ever made, 0:00:46.520 --> 0:00:48.680 and the fund is due to give out all the 0:00:48.760 --> 0:00:54.120 ten billion dollars by twenty thirty. That money, as Bezos outlined, 0:00:54.600 --> 0:00:59.040 will fund and I quote scientists, activists, and geos, any 0:00:59.120 --> 0:01:02.400 effort that offers a real possibility to help preserve and 0:01:02.480 --> 0:01:06.360 protect the natural world. Already, the Fund has given out 0:01:06.440 --> 0:01:09.280 about one point six billion dollars to more than one 0:01:09.319 --> 0:01:12.720 hundred projects around the world, from the Congo Basin to 0:01:12.880 --> 0:01:17.199 the mainland US. About a third of that money has 0:01:17.240 --> 0:01:20.200 gone to nature and conservation spending, but the fund has 0:01:20.240 --> 0:01:24.800 also given out grants to projects involving food security, decarbonization 0:01:24.880 --> 0:01:29.080 of industry, and climate tech. Bezas has made appearances at 0:01:29.200 --> 0:01:31.520 high profile events like COP twenty six and the New 0:01:31.600 --> 0:01:34.440 York Climate Week to announce how the money will be spent. 0:01:34.959 --> 0:01:38.760 I'm pleased to announce a two billion dollar pledge allocated 0:01:38.800 --> 0:01:43.880 directly to restoring nature and transforming food systems. This is 0:01:43.959 --> 0:01:47.319 part of the Bezos Earth Funds ten billion dollar commitment 0:01:47.640 --> 0:01:53.480 to fight climate change, enhance nature, and advance environmental justice 0:01:53.760 --> 0:01:55.560 and economic opportunity. 0:01:56.240 --> 0:01:59.520 By most measures, ten billion dollars is a lot of money, 0:02:00.080 --> 0:02:02.720 but it is also a small fraction of the three 0:02:02.760 --> 0:02:06.080 point five trillion dollars that is needed annually to hit 0:02:06.160 --> 0:02:09.520 net zero by twenty fifty. To make an impact, it 0:02:09.639 --> 0:02:12.600 needs to be spent strategically and attract a lot more 0:02:12.639 --> 0:02:17.200 money from governments and corporations. My guest today is Andrew Steer, 0:02:17.560 --> 0:02:21.000 the CEO of the Bezos Earth Fund. With Bezos, he 0:02:21.160 --> 0:02:24.400 decides where that ten billion dollars is allocated and how 0:02:24.440 --> 0:02:28.560 to measure its impact. Before taking on this role, Andrew 0:02:28.680 --> 0:02:31.520 was the head of the World Resources Institute. He also 0:02:31.560 --> 0:02:34.320 worked as a Special Climate Envoy for the World Bank 0:02:34.480 --> 0:02:38.600 and as Director General of the UK's Department for International Development. 0:02:40.200 --> 0:02:42.440 I sat down with Andrew at the World Economic Forum 0:02:42.440 --> 0:02:45.560 in Davos to ask how the Bezos Earth Fund spends 0:02:45.600 --> 0:02:50.119 its billions, what counts a success, and whether climate philanthropy 0:02:50.440 --> 0:03:01.160 is the new super yacht. Andrew, welcome to the show. 0:03:01.320 --> 0:03:03.119 Thank you, Akshat, looking forward to it. 0:03:03.560 --> 0:03:06.560 Now. What is the role of climate philanthropy over the 0:03:06.600 --> 0:03:08.800 next few decades and how does it change as we 0:03:08.840 --> 0:03:11.720 get closer to hitting our climate targets by twenty fifty. 0:03:11.840 --> 0:03:14.760 Well, philanthropy can act quickly. It can get ahead of 0:03:14.800 --> 0:03:17.880 the game. Governments take quite a while to get their 0:03:17.919 --> 0:03:19.959 money bad to spend. We're able to do it quicker. 0:03:20.160 --> 0:03:23.560 We're also able to take risks. So what we really 0:03:23.600 --> 0:03:26.480 need to do is to look at the challenges of 0:03:26.520 --> 0:03:30.520 this decade. They're about forty or fifty transitions we have 0:03:30.560 --> 0:03:32.920 to go through. We need to diagnose those, and we 0:03:33.000 --> 0:03:34.960 need to understand how do we get them to those 0:03:35.040 --> 0:03:40.640 positive tipping points at which stage change becomes irresistible and unstoppable. 0:03:41.040 --> 0:03:43.760 At COP twenty seven, you said, I don't think we 0:03:43.800 --> 0:03:47.200 should buy into the idea that climate philanthropy is somehow 0:03:47.280 --> 0:03:51.160 an alternative to government, because governments have an obligation and 0:03:51.200 --> 0:03:53.000 they are not living up to it to the extent 0:03:53.080 --> 0:03:55.880 they should How do you see the role of philanthropy 0:03:55.880 --> 0:03:59.120 and government being different and when do you think philanthropy 0:03:59.160 --> 0:04:00.480 and government should work together. 0:04:00.880 --> 0:04:04.520 I think philanthropy should often work together with government, although 0:04:04.560 --> 0:04:09.760 sometimes philanthropy will be supporting political activism against governments to 0:04:09.880 --> 0:04:16.640 change government policy. So philanthropy should not compensate for funding 0:04:16.680 --> 0:04:19.960 that governments choose not to make. On the contrary, philanthropy 0:04:20.000 --> 0:04:22.560 should try to urge governments to play the role that 0:04:22.640 --> 0:04:26.719 they should play. Governments have an obligation to address public goods, 0:04:26.760 --> 0:04:32.880 and protecting the atmosphere is a pretty important public obligation, 0:04:33.040 --> 0:04:35.440 so to speak. And we do complement each other because 0:04:35.920 --> 0:04:40.119 we are able to move quickly. We're able to take 0:04:40.279 --> 0:04:44.080 risks that perhaps they could not, and that means that 0:04:44.200 --> 0:04:48.279 we can go into things knowing that they may fail 0:04:49.120 --> 0:04:53.159 if we believe that the potential return is large enough. 0:04:53.360 --> 0:04:55.080 In that regard, we're a little bit more like a 0:04:55.160 --> 0:05:01.320 venture capitalist. Venture capitalists know that some of the companies 0:05:01.360 --> 0:05:05.080 they invest in will fail, but their view is that 0:05:05.160 --> 0:05:07.640 if I invest a million dollars and it fails, the 0:05:07.680 --> 0:05:10.240 most I can lose is a million dollars. If I 0:05:10.279 --> 0:05:12.880 invest a million dollars in it succeeds, it may be 0:05:12.960 --> 0:05:16.520 worth twenty million dollars very quickly. So I can afford 0:05:16.600 --> 0:05:21.680 to fail actually quite often, and still come out highly successful. 0:05:22.160 --> 0:05:26.880 For governments, it's actually much harder to do that because 0:05:26.960 --> 0:05:33.040 accountability mechanisms are somewhat skewed, quite honestly. So, for example, 0:05:33.120 --> 0:05:35.760 the Department of Energy in the United States has played 0:05:35.800 --> 0:05:41.200 an absolutely fantastic role in investing in early stage technologies, 0:05:41.240 --> 0:05:44.479 and companies like Tesla, for example, and a whole range 0:05:44.520 --> 0:05:48.600 of companies have done very very well based upon early research. 0:05:49.200 --> 0:05:53.240 But it just took one investment that went bad called Clindra. 0:05:53.760 --> 0:05:57.160 Soleindra was a US company that made solar panels. In 0:05:57.160 --> 0:06:00.520 two thousand and nine, then Vice President Biden announced that 0:06:00.560 --> 0:06:02.960 the company would receive a loan of five hundred and 0:06:02.960 --> 0:06:07.320 thirty five million dollars guaranteed by the US Department of Energy. 0:06:07.600 --> 0:06:11.320 Cylinder ended up going bankrupt in twenty eleven and defaulting 0:06:11.360 --> 0:06:14.719 on that loan. The same program also made a loan 0:06:14.760 --> 0:06:18.280 of four hundred and sixty five million dollars to Tesla. 0:06:18.480 --> 0:06:21.839 That company is now worth hundreds of billions of dollars, 0:06:22.320 --> 0:06:25.680 and yet Cylinder's bankruptcy continues to be used by some 0:06:25.800 --> 0:06:28.919 members of the government to criticize plans to invest in 0:06:28.960 --> 0:06:32.440 clean tech through legislations like the Inflation Reduction Act. 0:06:33.080 --> 0:06:37.159 They just took one investment that went bad for all 0:06:37.240 --> 0:06:42.320 of the congressional committees, all of the newspapers, the gotcha 0:06:42.640 --> 0:06:45.760 types to give that a hard time, and so that 0:06:45.960 --> 0:06:50.200 would illustrate the problems that the governments can have that 0:06:50.240 --> 0:06:52.200 philanthropy does not now. 0:06:52.400 --> 0:06:55.360 Twenty twenty two report by Climate Works said that only 0:06:55.400 --> 0:06:59.320 two percent of philanthropy dollars went toward climate mitigation in 0:06:59.400 --> 0:07:02.400 twenty twenty one one. That's about twelve and a half 0:07:02.440 --> 0:07:05.320 billion dollars depending on how you count. But it's a 0:07:05.360 --> 0:07:08.359 tiny percentage of the eight hundred billion dollars that is 0:07:08.400 --> 0:07:11.640 given out as philanthropy every year. Why is that number 0:07:11.840 --> 0:07:13.120 given to climate solo? 0:07:13.680 --> 0:07:17.360 It is interesting how philanthropists have over the literally the 0:07:17.440 --> 0:07:21.680 last five to ten years, started to take climate change seriously. 0:07:21.720 --> 0:07:24.760 I mean ten years ago there was very little funding. 0:07:25.280 --> 0:07:29.360 There's still not enough, and that means that every dollar 0:07:29.880 --> 0:07:33.600 allocated has to be used carefully. So, for example, I 0:07:33.640 --> 0:07:36.600 have the privilege of being the CEO of the Basos 0:07:36.760 --> 0:07:40.560 Earth Fund, which is a ten billion dollar grand fund 0:07:40.600 --> 0:07:45.280 that will be dispersed entirely this decade. That sounds like 0:07:45.320 --> 0:07:48.160 a lot of money. It is to me and you, 0:07:48.680 --> 0:07:50.760 but it's a small amount of money compared to the needs. 0:07:50.800 --> 0:07:54.600 So we have to make sure that it is truly leveraged, 0:07:54.800 --> 0:07:57.720 and you can leverage in several ways. Now, when we 0:07:57.760 --> 0:08:01.360 talk about the two percent of total filmilanthropy that's going 0:08:01.400 --> 0:08:05.040 for climate mitigation, I've got to remember in addition to that, 0:08:05.280 --> 0:08:09.080 there's funding for nature, for example, which also helps climate, 0:08:09.600 --> 0:08:12.760 And there's funding for food and agriculture, which done right, 0:08:12.960 --> 0:08:17.600 also helps climate. There's funding for adaptation. But all in all, 0:08:17.640 --> 0:08:19.840 it's still knowing there enough. I do agree with that. 0:08:20.200 --> 0:08:23.480 Forty five philanthropic organizations signed up to the Giving to 0:08:23.640 --> 0:08:28.160 Amplify Earth Action initiative at Davos. The initiative aims to 0:08:28.360 --> 0:08:32.400 close the three trillion dollars of annual climate finance that 0:08:32.559 --> 0:08:35.760 needs to be met to get to the goals of 0:08:35.800 --> 0:08:39.240 the Paris Agreement. That's equivalent to about three percent of 0:08:39.280 --> 0:08:44.240 the world's GDP. How do you think philanthropic organizations can 0:08:44.240 --> 0:08:44.720 achieve that? 0:08:45.160 --> 0:08:48.520 So if you think about philanthropy today, as we discussed earlier, 0:08:48.960 --> 0:08:53.280 let's imagine it's roughly fifteen billion dollars a year. It 0:08:53.320 --> 0:08:56.200 would not be inconceivable at all to double that in 0:08:56.240 --> 0:08:59.480 the next few years. Should that happen, that's thirty billion 0:08:59.480 --> 0:09:01.880 dollars a year. Think about that. That's like one percent 0:09:02.480 --> 0:09:05.960 of the total investment that is required. So that one 0:09:06.000 --> 0:09:10.480 percent is a small tail wagging hopefully a bigger dog. 0:09:11.120 --> 0:09:14.280 So it needs to do it thoughtfully, and I think 0:09:14.320 --> 0:09:17.880 that's the goal that some of us in the philanthropic 0:09:17.960 --> 0:09:22.079 community have had. Wouldn't it be useful if we could 0:09:22.120 --> 0:09:25.560 bring the different pieces of the jigs or puzzle together, 0:09:25.720 --> 0:09:29.400 the different actors, and focus on, let's say an issue. 0:09:29.880 --> 0:09:34.760 The issue could be preventing deforestation, it could be getting 0:09:34.800 --> 0:09:37.240 rid of the internal combustion engine, it could be shifting 0:09:37.280 --> 0:09:42.240 diets towards plant based food. You need governments at the table, 0:09:42.400 --> 0:09:46.000 you need corporates at the table, you need carbon credits 0:09:46.000 --> 0:09:49.760 at the table, philanthropy at the table. And it's only 0:09:49.800 --> 0:09:52.400 when you do that that you actually then can get 0:09:53.040 --> 0:09:55.000 that kind of synergy. 0:09:55.360 --> 0:10:00.360 So one way in which institutions, especially government institution but 0:10:00.520 --> 0:10:06.160 also institutions that depend on donors giving money justify their 0:10:06.240 --> 0:10:11.080 presence their work is to sometimes measure it in how 0:10:11.080 --> 0:10:15.280 many more dollars for every dollar they spent were invested 0:10:15.320 --> 0:10:20.040 for those causes. Famously, NASA does that to justify that 0:10:20.720 --> 0:10:24.839 a space program is necessary for the United States. And 0:10:24.880 --> 0:10:29.040 then multiplier is large. If you're thinking of using thirty 0:10:29.040 --> 0:10:32.400 billion dollars to get to three trillion dollars, your multiplier 0:10:32.520 --> 0:10:35.800 is one hundred and none of the organizations I've looked 0:10:35.800 --> 0:10:38.600 at have ever produced that kind of number, So how 0:10:38.600 --> 0:10:39.640 do you think that will work? 0:10:39.840 --> 0:10:44.120 So it would be hubris to assume that if there 0:10:44.120 --> 0:10:47.679 weren't philanthropy, nothing else would happen. I mean, a lot 0:10:47.679 --> 0:10:49.960 of it would happen anyway, because we have some good 0:10:50.000 --> 0:10:53.560 governments out there, we have some good carbon credits, and 0:10:53.600 --> 0:10:56.559 we have some terrific companies that are wanting to invest 0:10:56.559 --> 0:10:59.320 in green So we don't need to over egg this 0:10:59.480 --> 0:11:03.359 issue in terms of overstating the importance of the leverage 0:11:03.400 --> 0:11:07.280 that philanthropy can have. Having said that, philanthropy can play 0:11:07.280 --> 0:11:11.040 a very useful role, and if you think about leverage, 0:11:11.600 --> 0:11:13.840 the easy and obvious way to think about it is 0:11:14.120 --> 0:11:18.559 we could de risk private investment. So private investors at 0:11:18.559 --> 0:11:21.200 the moment are not willing to go into certain technologies 0:11:21.280 --> 0:11:24.880 partly because it's risky. Sometimes it's country risk, sometimes it's 0:11:24.920 --> 0:11:29.439 technological risk. Price risk, policy, risk, philanthropy could help de 0:11:29.640 --> 0:11:32.600 risk that. But there are many many other ways of 0:11:32.640 --> 0:11:36.600 getting leverage. I mean, an obvious one is influencing policy. 0:11:37.080 --> 0:11:41.720 For example, we could influence a global price on carbon 0:11:41.720 --> 0:11:44.240 of one hundred dollars a ton. I mean, wow, that 0:11:44.280 --> 0:11:48.440 would have leverage. But there are many many policies that 0:11:48.520 --> 0:11:51.160 are required. For example, something we're working on right now 0:11:51.360 --> 0:11:55.079 is you know, everyone talks about green steel and green cement, 0:11:55.280 --> 0:11:58.120 which is very important. The problem is actually not the 0:11:58.160 --> 0:12:02.080 technologist to produce it, it's finding buyers who in the 0:12:02.240 --> 0:12:04.280 near term will have to pay a little bit more 0:12:04.320 --> 0:12:08.680 for it. So it turns out that fifty percent of 0:12:08.720 --> 0:12:11.559 all the cement in the United States is actually purchased 0:12:11.600 --> 0:12:15.840 by governments, mainly local government, but also federal government. So 0:12:15.920 --> 0:12:18.760 one of the things we're doing is supporting a program 0:12:19.200 --> 0:12:23.520 that seeks to change procurement rules at the state and 0:12:23.600 --> 0:12:27.480 city level, and it's being very successful. That in turn 0:12:28.080 --> 0:12:32.120 is creating a demand, which in turn will drive down prices. 0:12:32.640 --> 0:12:35.520 And once you reach a demand of a certain percentage, 0:12:36.040 --> 0:12:40.320 you actually can cross a tipping point because then steel 0:12:40.400 --> 0:12:44.720 companies or cement companies understand the direction the wind is 0:12:44.720 --> 0:12:47.760 blowing in and really go all in sort of thing. 0:12:47.840 --> 0:12:50.920 So that's another example of leaverage. 0:12:51.000 --> 0:12:53.480 Now you mentioned that the Basos Earth Fund is going 0:12:53.520 --> 0:12:57.040 to spend ten million dollars this decade. You spent about 0:12:57.040 --> 0:12:59.720 one point six billion dollars so far. Could you just 0:12:59.760 --> 0:13:02.920 walk us through what kind of projects you've funded so 0:13:03.040 --> 0:13:05.200 far and how do you go about choosing them? 0:13:05.360 --> 0:13:08.080 So, the way we go about choosing them is we 0:13:08.160 --> 0:13:13.400 try to ask ourselves what are the big transitions that 0:13:13.440 --> 0:13:18.359 are required this decade and next. So that includes eliminating 0:13:18.360 --> 0:13:23.160 the internal combustion engine, it includes greening financial markets, It 0:13:23.240 --> 0:13:27.280 includes shifting dyers toward more plant pased nutrition and so on, 0:13:27.600 --> 0:13:30.120 and they're about fifty of those. What we do we 0:13:30.200 --> 0:13:33.880 use an initiative called the System Change Lab, which we 0:13:33.960 --> 0:13:37.520 co run together with the World Resource Institute and others 0:13:37.840 --> 0:13:40.040 that are heavily involved in it. And what it does 0:13:40.120 --> 0:13:43.200 is it measures these fifty transitions and it asked where 0:13:43.240 --> 0:13:46.720 are they as they seek to approach tipping points? And 0:13:46.760 --> 0:13:49.960 then it asks what is the special source that seems 0:13:50.000 --> 0:13:53.440 to get some of these past those tipping points? And 0:13:53.800 --> 0:13:56.000 where are the barriers that are preventing others, and so 0:13:56.040 --> 0:13:58.400 what we try to do is look at those and 0:13:58.559 --> 0:14:01.640 identify barriers that we could be helpful in removing. I'll 0:14:01.679 --> 0:14:04.520 give you an example of something we're thinking about right now. 0:14:04.920 --> 0:14:08.679 We now know that not only must we reduce carbon emissions, 0:14:08.920 --> 0:14:12.719 we've actually got to take greenhouse gases out of the atmosphere. Now. 0:14:12.720 --> 0:14:16.200 The best possible technology for that is planting a tree, 0:14:16.280 --> 0:14:20.440 for example. So we have a very significant program of 0:14:21.000 --> 0:14:25.480 landscape restoration trying to put a coalition together to regreen 0:14:25.640 --> 0:14:29.080 or restore one hundred million hectares in Africa. We also 0:14:29.080 --> 0:14:31.280 have a program in the United States doing the same. 0:14:31.680 --> 0:14:34.800 It turns out now that thirty five African countries are 0:14:34.840 --> 0:14:37.520 really interested in doing this. It also turns out that 0:14:37.560 --> 0:14:40.040 we have technology that we can measure it. We're financing 0:14:40.080 --> 0:14:42.640 that as well. It also turns out that there's quite 0:14:42.640 --> 0:14:46.520 a bit of public and private money sitting on the sidelines. 0:14:47.040 --> 0:14:50.040 And whilst there are actually thousands of community groups in 0:14:50.080 --> 0:14:52.080 Africa that are very good at this, there are no 0:14:52.160 --> 0:14:56.080 intermediating institutions. So what we think is what could we 0:14:56.120 --> 0:14:59.359 do well. We could play a role, getting the methodology 0:14:59.360 --> 0:15:02.640 and the satellite system to measure. We also could play 0:15:02.640 --> 0:15:07.320 a role in helping to create those intermediating institutions that 0:15:07.360 --> 0:15:10.600 would be an example of how we go about it. 0:15:10.760 --> 0:15:13.560 They also, though we've you and I have come to 0:15:13.600 --> 0:15:18.920 a conclusion that simply that technology of photosynthesis is not 0:15:19.080 --> 0:15:21.560 enough to take everything out. So we're actually looking at 0:15:21.600 --> 0:15:24.960 some other ways of taking carbon out of the air through, 0:15:25.080 --> 0:15:30.280 for example, the possibility of ocean absorption, the possibility of 0:15:30.440 --> 0:15:35.680 weathering where various chemical processes can take carbon dioxide. And 0:15:35.760 --> 0:15:38.640 even you know, there's some sort of frontier technologies that 0:15:39.200 --> 0:15:42.880 are nowhere close to commercialization, so no one's actually investing 0:15:42.920 --> 0:15:46.720 in them. For example, how do you take methane out 0:15:46.760 --> 0:15:49.720 of the atmosphere? Very very hard to do, But unless 0:15:49.760 --> 0:15:53.359 we invest now in that, we won't have the technologies 0:15:53.360 --> 0:15:56.480 we need twenty years from now, when it will sadly 0:15:56.520 --> 0:15:57.240 be essential. 0:15:57.800 --> 0:16:00.560 Now you're talking about carbon removal here, because we need 0:16:00.560 --> 0:16:03.520 to draw down carbon dioxide from the atmosphere. It will 0:16:03.520 --> 0:16:05.240 be a big thing that we'll have to work on. 0:16:05.640 --> 0:16:09.040 But currently the majority of the problem is to try 0:16:09.040 --> 0:16:12.880 and actually reduce emissions. But given as a climate journalist 0:16:13.160 --> 0:16:18.080 covering this subject, just the sheer amount of intellectual capacity 0:16:18.160 --> 0:16:21.360 that is going towards the offset problem, which remains a 0:16:21.520 --> 0:16:25.480 very small market billion dollars two billion dollars relative to 0:16:25.520 --> 0:16:28.160 the three trillion dollars worth of mitigation work that needs 0:16:28.200 --> 0:16:30.920 to be done. Why do you think when you thought 0:16:30.920 --> 0:16:34.000 of the right example to talk about where philanthropy can 0:16:34.080 --> 0:16:37.400 make a difference, was carbon offsets or carbon markets the 0:16:37.560 --> 0:16:40.760 right place to try and invest money or even bring 0:16:40.760 --> 0:16:45.120 that up as the star example that philanthropy is helping improve. 0:16:45.800 --> 0:16:50.440 Oh, maybe I was not clear. We've allocated three billion 0:16:50.520 --> 0:16:55.600 dollars for nature, a billion dollars for conservation, a billion 0:16:55.640 --> 0:16:59.440 dollars for restoration, and a billion dollars for food system transformation, 0:16:59.760 --> 0:17:03.080 and we're still obviously allocating that money at the BASEOS 0:17:03.240 --> 0:17:07.320 fund of that first, the conservation a very very small 0:17:07.560 --> 0:17:10.000 fraction of that, I mean so far it would be 0:17:10.400 --> 0:17:12.960 I don't know, maybe ten million dollars of that would 0:17:12.960 --> 0:17:16.919 be to help set standards for the carbon markets. We 0:17:16.960 --> 0:17:20.680 are spending, you know, one hundred and ten million dollars 0:17:21.160 --> 0:17:25.879 of grants in the Congo basin to help government and 0:17:26.600 --> 0:17:30.760 civil society conserve nature that carbon markets don't play a 0:17:30.840 --> 0:17:32.679 role in that At all, and we're doing exactly the 0:17:32.680 --> 0:17:37.199 same in Latin America and tropical Andes, for example. I 0:17:37.200 --> 0:17:40.480 think they do have a role, but much more important 0:17:40.680 --> 0:17:44.560 is conserving nature, because that's not a minor part of 0:17:44.600 --> 0:17:48.800 the issue. Rural space is responsible for more than a 0:17:48.920 --> 0:17:53.360 third of emissions, and so we really have to address that. 0:17:56.080 --> 0:17:58.880 After the break. Should Amazon be doing more to cut 0:17:58.920 --> 0:18:01.920 its own emissions? And what happens to the money when 0:18:01.920 --> 0:18:16.080 the decisive decade is done? The Visas Art Fund was 0:18:16.160 --> 0:18:18.800 completely new when you started it, and the money is 0:18:18.800 --> 0:18:21.720 supposed to be spent by twenty thirty. What happens next? 0:18:21.960 --> 0:18:26.000 Well, yes, I left a job where we had seventeen 0:18:26.080 --> 0:18:30.359 hundred people, and then I was employee number one in 0:18:30.440 --> 0:18:33.600 my new job, and we're sort of ramping up basically, 0:18:34.040 --> 0:18:37.600 you know, we're willing to take risks. We should inject 0:18:37.720 --> 0:18:41.720 funds very thoughtfully but boldly, and we'll see if it works, 0:18:41.920 --> 0:18:43.840 and we'll do our best to make sure it works, 0:18:44.280 --> 0:18:46.480 and if it does work, we will then ramp that 0:18:46.640 --> 0:18:49.560 up together with partners. And we do nothing on our own. 0:18:49.720 --> 0:18:52.560 We don't simply write a check and say could you 0:18:52.600 --> 0:18:54.959 come back tell us how you're doing a year from now. So, 0:18:55.119 --> 0:19:01.480 for example, the Congo Basin is the most precious ecosystem imaginable. 0:19:01.560 --> 0:19:05.520 It sequesters more carbon than the Amazon and Southeast Asia 0:19:05.560 --> 0:19:08.920 tropical forest combined, and it's massively threatened at the moment. 0:19:09.160 --> 0:19:11.080 So we wanted to go in there. But we've got 0:19:11.080 --> 0:19:14.040 to be honest, this is a difficult place to work in. 0:19:14.119 --> 0:19:17.240 Some parts of these countries are very remote and sometimes 0:19:17.560 --> 0:19:20.280 governance is not what it should be. So what we did, 0:19:20.720 --> 0:19:24.960 we said, we gather nine leading institutions, mainly NGOs, but 0:19:25.080 --> 0:19:28.520 scientific institutions that have deep roots there. We said, look, 0:19:28.520 --> 0:19:31.000 we're going to finance all of you. You have two jobs. 0:19:31.119 --> 0:19:33.639 Job number one is within your own sphere of expertise. 0:19:33.760 --> 0:19:35.679 You have to deliver the way we've discussed with you. 0:19:36.240 --> 0:19:38.200 Thing number two, you've got to be part of a 0:19:38.240 --> 0:19:40.800 team with us, so that as a team, for the 0:19:40.800 --> 0:19:43.200 first time ever, we're able to engage at the head 0:19:43.200 --> 0:19:47.280 of state level at any level we like, including with 0:19:47.359 --> 0:19:50.200 other donors. We're now working with a number of European donors. 0:19:50.720 --> 0:19:53.080 Let's do it together kind of thing, and then we 0:19:53.119 --> 0:19:57.000 would have full time person that would be helping to 0:19:57.119 --> 0:20:01.640 oversee and drive that joint program together. So that's the 0:20:01.680 --> 0:20:02.920 sort of way we would work. 0:20:03.160 --> 0:20:05.280 And so what happens after twenty thirty when the money 0:20:05.359 --> 0:20:05.879 is all spent. 0:20:06.080 --> 0:20:09.480 Well, of course this is the decisive decade, and the 0:20:09.520 --> 0:20:13.000 next decade will also be decisive. The reason this is 0:20:13.119 --> 0:20:16.199 especially decisive is if we don't get it right this decade, 0:20:16.240 --> 0:20:20.520 actually next decade, it will be impossibly expensive to do 0:20:20.640 --> 0:20:24.439 anything and will quite frankly be too late. So I 0:20:24.480 --> 0:20:28.119 have a full time job from now to twenty thirty. 0:20:28.520 --> 0:20:31.720 Clearly there will be all kinds of needs for the 0:20:31.800 --> 0:20:33.160 twenty thirties as well. 0:20:33.280 --> 0:20:36.720 So one example then would be COP fifteen in December, 0:20:37.000 --> 0:20:40.400 which has been called a Paris for nature, set out 0:20:40.400 --> 0:20:44.120 this goal of protecting thirty percent of land and oceans 0:20:44.119 --> 0:20:47.800 by twenty thirty. Ambitious goal, something that had been called 0:20:47.840 --> 0:20:50.800 for for years, and now all these governments have come 0:20:50.840 --> 0:20:53.720 together and agreed upon it. But as soon as that 0:20:54.040 --> 0:20:57.679 high level goal is agreed upon, it becomes a minefield. 0:20:57.800 --> 0:21:00.760 The number of questions about what does that that really mean? 0:21:01.160 --> 0:21:03.359 How do we measure it? Does it mean no humans 0:21:03.400 --> 0:21:06.600 can do anything in that land? How do countries in 0:21:06.680 --> 0:21:10.920 different parts with different capabilities and wealth work on those 0:21:11.600 --> 0:21:14.080 Is that something that you're working on to try and 0:21:14.160 --> 0:21:18.320 create clearer understanding of what thirty by thirty would mean, 0:21:18.680 --> 0:21:21.760 because it's really important that we not just tackle the 0:21:21.760 --> 0:21:25.760 climate crisis, but the biodiversity crisis and the solution sometimes overlap. 0:21:26.200 --> 0:21:28.840 Yes, indeed, I mean I think you've clarified the issue 0:21:28.880 --> 0:21:34.520 very helpfully. We need a political commitment based upon good science, 0:21:34.800 --> 0:21:37.280 and that's what we've now got. Getting to thirty will 0:21:37.320 --> 0:21:40.960 be a huge achievement. It will need to double essentially 0:21:41.280 --> 0:21:44.200 protection on land, and it will need to more than 0:21:44.240 --> 0:21:47.880 double protection of the ocean. And we've got seven years 0:21:47.920 --> 0:21:50.719 to do it. So this is difficult. And as you say, 0:21:50.960 --> 0:21:55.959 now the real challenge begins which thirty percent and what 0:21:56.000 --> 0:21:58.160 does it mean to protect? And I think there are 0:21:58.160 --> 0:22:00.840 definitions of what it means to protect pretty well. It 0:22:00.880 --> 0:22:03.840 doesn't mean totally and utterly no humans in it. On 0:22:03.880 --> 0:22:07.000 the contrary, in many parts it is indigenous people who 0:22:07.040 --> 0:22:11.080 live there that are responsible for doing a very good 0:22:11.160 --> 0:22:13.639 job at the moment in protection. And part of the 0:22:13.640 --> 0:22:17.440 way of insuring thirty by thirty is to give indigenous 0:22:17.480 --> 0:22:21.639 people more rights and the ability to protect those rights. So, 0:22:21.720 --> 0:22:26.240 for example, in Montreal, the Canadian government announced a massive 0:22:26.440 --> 0:22:30.119 increase in its own protected areas in four areas that 0:22:30.160 --> 0:22:33.680 are going to be overseen by first nations. But as 0:22:33.720 --> 0:22:37.159 you say, country by country governments need to decide do 0:22:37.200 --> 0:22:39.080 they want to really be part of it. If they 0:22:39.119 --> 0:22:41.679 do want to be part of it, we need to 0:22:41.800 --> 0:22:46.240 bring in whatever support we can. And yesterday here in Davos, 0:22:46.359 --> 0:22:50.439 we had ministers from Indonesia, from the Democratic Republic of Congo, 0:22:50.640 --> 0:22:54.600 from Bangladesh, Ghana, together with people like John Kerry and 0:22:54.680 --> 0:22:57.479 the German government, the British government, and then philanthropias like 0:22:58.160 --> 0:23:01.080 based Ors, Earth Fund, the More Foundation and others that 0:23:01.240 --> 0:23:05.520 care about this and basically are setting up a process 0:23:05.680 --> 0:23:09.120 by which we would be available to be helpful as 0:23:09.119 --> 0:23:13.280 a team to major countries that are serious about this. 0:23:14.160 --> 0:23:17.760 Is climate philanthropy the new superyacht. Will we see competition 0:23:17.840 --> 0:23:19.639 for who can do it bigger and better? 0:23:20.280 --> 0:23:25.560 I've been impressed by how philanthropists are able to work together. 0:23:26.200 --> 0:23:28.679 That's not to say that from time to time there 0:23:28.720 --> 0:23:32.040 would not be some competition. I have not witnessed that 0:23:32.320 --> 0:23:35.800 so far. I, on the contrary, have witnessed an enthusiasm 0:23:35.880 --> 0:23:38.920 for working together. So for example, a year ago when 0:23:39.000 --> 0:23:44.159 we were concerned that this thirty by thirty, political momentum 0:23:44.240 --> 0:23:49.040 was slowing, and only like fifty countries had said they 0:23:49.040 --> 0:23:51.479 thought it was a good idea. We worked with other 0:23:51.520 --> 0:23:55.840 philanthropists and as a group we were able to put 0:23:56.119 --> 0:23:59.560 five billion dollars of grants on the table, you know, 0:24:00.400 --> 0:24:04.040 at the United Nations General Assembly. We were able to say, look, 0:24:04.160 --> 0:24:08.120 we're serious, this is funds that we would if you 0:24:08.160 --> 0:24:11.159 guys can come up with an agreement on thirty by thirty, 0:24:11.400 --> 0:24:15.520 we're willing to put this totally online. And that was remarkable. 0:24:15.560 --> 0:24:19.040 I mean that was put together within two months, that 0:24:19.119 --> 0:24:22.320 whole idea. I found it quite inspiring, and I actually 0:24:22.359 --> 0:24:25.879 think working together is really important. Now Having said that, 0:24:25.960 --> 0:24:29.400 one of the great things about some modern philanthropists is 0:24:29.440 --> 0:24:34.760 that they're based upon wealth that came because of great 0:24:35.480 --> 0:24:39.399