1 00:00:00,600 --> 00:00:05,840 Speaker 1: Welcome to zero. I'm akshatrati this week, my money, your money, 2 00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:22,680 Speaker 1: and Jeff's money. In February twenty twenty, Jeff Bezos, then 3 00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:25,439 Speaker 1: the richest person on the planet, posted a picture to 4 00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:30,080 Speaker 1: his four million Instagram followers. It showed the Earth from space, 5 00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:34,040 Speaker 1: the North American continent peaking out from behind the clouds, 6 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:37,760 Speaker 1: and accompanying the post was a big announcement he was 7 00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:41,600 Speaker 1: committing ten billion dollars to launch the Bezos Earth Fund. 8 00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:45,840 Speaker 1: It is the largest commitment to climate philanthropy ever made, 9 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:48,680 Speaker 1: and the fund is due to give out all the 10 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:54,120 Speaker 1: ten billion dollars by twenty thirty. That money, as Bezos outlined, 11 00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:59,040 Speaker 1: will fund and I quote scientists, activists, and geos, any 12 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:02,400 Speaker 1: effort that offers a real possibility to help preserve and 13 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:06,360 Speaker 1: protect the natural world. Already, the Fund has given out 14 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:09,280 Speaker 1: about one point six billion dollars to more than one 15 00:01:09,319 --> 00:01:12,720 Speaker 1: hundred projects around the world, from the Congo Basin to 16 00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:17,199 Speaker 1: the mainland US. About a third of that money has 17 00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:20,200 Speaker 1: gone to nature and conservation spending, but the fund has 18 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:24,800 Speaker 1: also given out grants to projects involving food security, decarbonization 19 00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:29,080 Speaker 1: of industry, and climate tech. Bezas has made appearances at 20 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:31,520 Speaker 1: high profile events like COP twenty six and the New 21 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:34,440 Speaker 1: York Climate Week to announce how the money will be spent. 22 00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:38,760 Speaker 2: I'm pleased to announce a two billion dollar pledge allocated 23 00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:43,880 Speaker 2: directly to restoring nature and transforming food systems. This is 24 00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:47,319 Speaker 2: part of the Bezos Earth Funds ten billion dollar commitment 25 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:53,480 Speaker 2: to fight climate change, enhance nature, and advance environmental justice 26 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:55,560 Speaker 2: and economic opportunity. 27 00:01:56,240 --> 00:01:59,520 Speaker 1: By most measures, ten billion dollars is a lot of money, 28 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:02,720 Speaker 1: but it is also a small fraction of the three 29 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 1: point five trillion dollars that is needed annually to hit 30 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:09,520 Speaker 1: net zero by twenty fifty. To make an impact, it 31 00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 1: needs to be spent strategically and attract a lot more 32 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:17,200 Speaker 1: money from governments and corporations. My guest today is Andrew Steer, 33 00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:21,000 Speaker 1: the CEO of the Bezos Earth Fund. With Bezos, he 34 00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:24,400 Speaker 1: decides where that ten billion dollars is allocated and how 35 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:28,560 Speaker 1: to measure its impact. Before taking on this role, Andrew 36 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:31,520 Speaker 1: was the head of the World Resources Institute. He also 37 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:34,320 Speaker 1: worked as a Special Climate Envoy for the World Bank 38 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:38,600 Speaker 1: and as Director General of the UK's Department for International Development. 39 00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:42,440 Speaker 1: I sat down with Andrew at the World Economic Forum 40 00:02:42,440 --> 00:02:45,560 Speaker 1: in Davos to ask how the Bezos Earth Fund spends 41 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:50,119 Speaker 1: its billions, what counts a success, and whether climate philanthropy 42 00:02:50,440 --> 00:03:01,160 Speaker 1: is the new super yacht. Andrew, welcome to the show. 43 00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:03,119 Speaker 3: Thank you, Akshat, looking forward to it. 44 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:06,560 Speaker 1: Now. What is the role of climate philanthropy over the 45 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:08,800 Speaker 1: next few decades and how does it change as we 46 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:11,720 Speaker 1: get closer to hitting our climate targets by twenty fifty. 47 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 3: Well, philanthropy can act quickly. It can get ahead of 48 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:17,880 Speaker 3: the game. Governments take quite a while to get their 49 00:03:17,919 --> 00:03:19,959 Speaker 3: money bad to spend. We're able to do it quicker. 50 00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:23,560 Speaker 3: We're also able to take risks. So what we really 51 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:26,480 Speaker 3: need to do is to look at the challenges of 52 00:03:26,520 --> 00:03:30,520 Speaker 3: this decade. They're about forty or fifty transitions we have 53 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:32,920 Speaker 3: to go through. We need to diagnose those, and we 54 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:34,960 Speaker 3: need to understand how do we get them to those 55 00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:40,640 Speaker 3: positive tipping points at which stage change becomes irresistible and unstoppable. 56 00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:43,760 Speaker 1: At COP twenty seven, you said, I don't think we 57 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:47,200 Speaker 1: should buy into the idea that climate philanthropy is somehow 58 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:51,160 Speaker 1: an alternative to government, because governments have an obligation and 59 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:53,000 Speaker 1: they are not living up to it to the extent 60 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:55,880 Speaker 1: they should How do you see the role of philanthropy 61 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:59,120 Speaker 1: and government being different and when do you think philanthropy 62 00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:00,480 Speaker 1: and government should work together. 63 00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:04,520 Speaker 3: I think philanthropy should often work together with government, although 64 00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:09,760 Speaker 3: sometimes philanthropy will be supporting political activism against governments to 65 00:04:09,880 --> 00:04:16,640 Speaker 3: change government policy. So philanthropy should not compensate for funding 66 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:19,960 Speaker 3: that governments choose not to make. On the contrary, philanthropy 67 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:22,560 Speaker 3: should try to urge governments to play the role that 68 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:26,719 Speaker 3: they should play. Governments have an obligation to address public goods, 69 00:04:26,760 --> 00:04:32,880 Speaker 3: and protecting the atmosphere is a pretty important public obligation, 70 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:35,440 Speaker 3: so to speak. And we do complement each other because 71 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:40,119 Speaker 3: we are able to move quickly. We're able to take 72 00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 3: risks that perhaps they could not, and that means that 73 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:48,279 Speaker 3: we can go into things knowing that they may fail 74 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:53,159 Speaker 3: if we believe that the potential return is large enough. 75 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:55,080 Speaker 3: In that regard, we're a little bit more like a 76 00:04:55,160 --> 00:05:01,320 Speaker 3: venture capitalist. Venture capitalists know that some of the companies 77 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:05,080 Speaker 3: they invest in will fail, but their view is that 78 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:07,640 Speaker 3: if I invest a million dollars and it fails, the 79 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:10,240 Speaker 3: most I can lose is a million dollars. If I 80 00:05:10,279 --> 00:05:12,880 Speaker 3: invest a million dollars in it succeeds, it may be 81 00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:16,520 Speaker 3: worth twenty million dollars very quickly. So I can afford 82 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:21,680 Speaker 3: to fail actually quite often, and still come out highly successful. 83 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:26,880 Speaker 3: For governments, it's actually much harder to do that because 84 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:33,040 Speaker 3: accountability mechanisms are somewhat skewed, quite honestly. So, for example, 85 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:35,760 Speaker 3: the Department of Energy in the United States has played 86 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:41,200 Speaker 3: an absolutely fantastic role in investing in early stage technologies, 87 00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:44,479 Speaker 3: and companies like Tesla, for example, and a whole range 88 00:05:44,520 --> 00:05:48,600 Speaker 3: of companies have done very very well based upon early research. 89 00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:53,240 Speaker 3: But it just took one investment that went bad called Clindra. 90 00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:57,160 Speaker 1: Soleindra was a US company that made solar panels. In 91 00:05:57,160 --> 00:06:00,520 Speaker 1: two thousand and nine, then Vice President Biden announced that 92 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:02,960 Speaker 1: the company would receive a loan of five hundred and 93 00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 1: thirty five million dollars guaranteed by the US Department of Energy. 94 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:11,320 Speaker 1: Cylinder ended up going bankrupt in twenty eleven and defaulting 95 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:14,719 Speaker 1: on that loan. The same program also made a loan 96 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:18,280 Speaker 1: of four hundred and sixty five million dollars to Tesla. 97 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:21,839 Speaker 1: That company is now worth hundreds of billions of dollars, 98 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:25,680 Speaker 1: and yet Cylinder's bankruptcy continues to be used by some 99 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:28,919 Speaker 1: members of the government to criticize plans to invest in 100 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:32,440 Speaker 1: clean tech through legislations like the Inflation Reduction Act. 101 00:06:33,080 --> 00:06:37,159 Speaker 3: They just took one investment that went bad for all 102 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:42,320 Speaker 3: of the congressional committees, all of the newspapers, the gotcha 103 00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:45,760 Speaker 3: types to give that a hard time, and so that 104 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:50,200 Speaker 3: would illustrate the problems that the governments can have that 105 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 3: philanthropy does not now. 106 00:06:52,400 --> 00:06:55,360 Speaker 1: Twenty twenty two report by Climate Works said that only 107 00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:59,320 Speaker 1: two percent of philanthropy dollars went toward climate mitigation in 108 00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:02,400 Speaker 1: twenty twenty one one. That's about twelve and a half 109 00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:05,320 Speaker 1: billion dollars depending on how you count. But it's a 110 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:08,359 Speaker 1: tiny percentage of the eight hundred billion dollars that is 111 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:11,640 Speaker 1: given out as philanthropy every year. Why is that number 112 00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:13,120 Speaker 1: given to climate solo? 113 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:17,360 Speaker 3: It is interesting how philanthropists have over the literally the 114 00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:21,680 Speaker 3: last five to ten years, started to take climate change seriously. 115 00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:24,760 Speaker 3: I mean ten years ago there was very little funding. 116 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:29,360 Speaker 3: There's still not enough, and that means that every dollar 117 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:33,600 Speaker 3: allocated has to be used carefully. So, for example, I 118 00:07:33,640 --> 00:07:36,600 Speaker 3: have the privilege of being the CEO of the Basos 119 00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:40,560 Speaker 3: Earth Fund, which is a ten billion dollar grand fund 120 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:45,280 Speaker 3: that will be dispersed entirely this decade. That sounds like 121 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:48,160 Speaker 3: a lot of money. It is to me and you, 122 00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:50,760 Speaker 3: but it's a small amount of money compared to the needs. 123 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:54,600 Speaker 3: So we have to make sure that it is truly leveraged, 124 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:57,720 Speaker 3: and you can leverage in several ways. Now, when we 125 00:07:57,760 --> 00:08:01,360 Speaker 3: talk about the two percent of total filmilanthropy that's going 126 00:08:01,400 --> 00:08:05,040 Speaker 3: for climate mitigation, I've got to remember in addition to that, 127 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:09,080 Speaker 3: there's funding for nature, for example, which also helps climate, 128 00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:12,760 Speaker 3: And there's funding for food and agriculture, which done right, 129 00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:17,600 Speaker 3: also helps climate. There's funding for adaptation. But all in all, 130 00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:19,840 Speaker 3: it's still knowing there enough. I do agree with that. 131 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:23,480 Speaker 1: Forty five philanthropic organizations signed up to the Giving to 132 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:28,160 Speaker 1: Amplify Earth Action initiative at Davos. The initiative aims to 133 00:08:28,360 --> 00:08:32,400 Speaker 1: close the three trillion dollars of annual climate finance that 134 00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:35,760 Speaker 1: needs to be met to get to the goals of 135 00:08:35,800 --> 00:08:39,240 Speaker 1: the Paris Agreement. That's equivalent to about three percent of 136 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:44,240 Speaker 1: the world's GDP. How do you think philanthropic organizations can 137 00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:44,720 Speaker 1: achieve that? 138 00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:48,520 Speaker 3: So if you think about philanthropy today, as we discussed earlier, 139 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:53,280 Speaker 3: let's imagine it's roughly fifteen billion dollars a year. It 140 00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:56,200 Speaker 3: would not be inconceivable at all to double that in 141 00:08:56,240 --> 00:08:59,480 Speaker 3: the next few years. Should that happen, that's thirty billion 142 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:01,880 Speaker 3: dollars a year. Think about that. That's like one percent 143 00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:05,960 Speaker 3: of the total investment that is required. So that one 144 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:10,480 Speaker 3: percent is a small tail wagging hopefully a bigger dog. 145 00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:14,280 Speaker 3: So it needs to do it thoughtfully, and I think 146 00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:17,880 Speaker 3: that's the goal that some of us in the philanthropic 147 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:22,079 Speaker 3: community have had. Wouldn't it be useful if we could 148 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:25,560 Speaker 3: bring the different pieces of the jigs or puzzle together, 149 00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:29,400 Speaker 3: the different actors, and focus on, let's say an issue. 150 00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:34,760 Speaker 3: The issue could be preventing deforestation, it could be getting 151 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:37,240 Speaker 3: rid of the internal combustion engine, it could be shifting 152 00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:42,240 Speaker 3: diets towards plant based food. You need governments at the table, 153 00:09:42,400 --> 00:09:46,000 Speaker 3: you need corporates at the table, you need carbon credits 154 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:49,760 Speaker 3: at the table, philanthropy at the table. And it's only 155 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:52,400 Speaker 3: when you do that that you actually then can get 156 00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:55,000 Speaker 3: that kind of synergy. 157 00:09:55,360 --> 00:10:00,360 Speaker 1: So one way in which institutions, especially government institution but 158 00:10:00,520 --> 00:10:06,160 Speaker 1: also institutions that depend on donors giving money justify their 159 00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:11,080 Speaker 1: presence their work is to sometimes measure it in how 160 00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:15,280 Speaker 1: many more dollars for every dollar they spent were invested 161 00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:20,040 Speaker 1: for those causes. Famously, NASA does that to justify that 162 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:24,839 Speaker 1: a space program is necessary for the United States. And 163 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:29,040 Speaker 1: then multiplier is large. If you're thinking of using thirty 164 00:10:29,040 --> 00:10:32,400 Speaker 1: billion dollars to get to three trillion dollars, your multiplier 165 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:35,800 Speaker 1: is one hundred and none of the organizations I've looked 166 00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:38,600 Speaker 1: at have ever produced that kind of number, So how 167 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:39,640 Speaker 1: do you think that will work? 168 00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:44,120 Speaker 3: So it would be hubris to assume that if there 169 00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:47,679 Speaker 3: weren't philanthropy, nothing else would happen. I mean, a lot 170 00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:49,960 Speaker 3: of it would happen anyway, because we have some good 171 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:53,560 Speaker 3: governments out there, we have some good carbon credits, and 172 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:56,559 Speaker 3: we have some terrific companies that are wanting to invest 173 00:10:56,559 --> 00:10:59,320 Speaker 3: in green So we don't need to over egg this 174 00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:03,359 Speaker 3: issue in terms of overstating the importance of the leverage 175 00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:07,280 Speaker 3: that philanthropy can have. Having said that, philanthropy can play 176 00:11:07,280 --> 00:11:11,040 Speaker 3: a very useful role, and if you think about leverage, 177 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:13,840 Speaker 3: the easy and obvious way to think about it is 178 00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:18,559 Speaker 3: we could de risk private investment. So private investors at 179 00:11:18,559 --> 00:11:21,200 Speaker 3: the moment are not willing to go into certain technologies 180 00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:24,880 Speaker 3: partly because it's risky. Sometimes it's country risk, sometimes it's 181 00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:29,439 Speaker 3: technological risk. Price risk, policy, risk, philanthropy could help de 182 00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:32,600 Speaker 3: risk that. But there are many many other ways of 183 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:36,600 Speaker 3: getting leverage. I mean, an obvious one is influencing policy. 184 00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:41,720 Speaker 3: For example, we could influence a global price on carbon 185 00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:44,240 Speaker 3: of one hundred dollars a ton. I mean, wow, that 186 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:48,440 Speaker 3: would have leverage. But there are many many policies that 187 00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:51,160 Speaker 3: are required. For example, something we're working on right now 188 00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:55,079 Speaker 3: is you know, everyone talks about green steel and green cement, 189 00:11:55,280 --> 00:11:58,120 Speaker 3: which is very important. The problem is actually not the 190 00:11:58,160 --> 00:12:02,080 Speaker 3: technologist to produce it, it's finding buyers who in the 191 00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:04,280 Speaker 3: near term will have to pay a little bit more 192 00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:08,680 Speaker 3: for it. So it turns out that fifty percent of 193 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:11,559 Speaker 3: all the cement in the United States is actually purchased 194 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:15,840 Speaker 3: by governments, mainly local government, but also federal government. So 195 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:18,760 Speaker 3: one of the things we're doing is supporting a program 196 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:23,520 Speaker 3: that seeks to change procurement rules at the state and 197 00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:27,480 Speaker 3: city level, and it's being very successful. That in turn 198 00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:32,120 Speaker 3: is creating a demand, which in turn will drive down prices. 199 00:12:32,640 --> 00:12:35,520 Speaker 3: And once you reach a demand of a certain percentage, 200 00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:40,320 Speaker 3: you actually can cross a tipping point because then steel 201 00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:44,720 Speaker 3: companies or cement companies understand the direction the wind is 202 00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:47,760 Speaker 3: blowing in and really go all in sort of thing. 203 00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:50,920 Speaker 3: So that's another example of leaverage. 204 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:53,480 Speaker 1: Now you mentioned that the Basos Earth Fund is going 205 00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:57,040 Speaker 1: to spend ten million dollars this decade. You spent about 206 00:12:57,040 --> 00:12:59,720 Speaker 1: one point six billion dollars so far. Could you just 207 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:02,920 Speaker 1: walk us through what kind of projects you've funded so 208 00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:05,200 Speaker 1: far and how do you go about choosing them? 209 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:08,080 Speaker 3: So, the way we go about choosing them is we 210 00:13:08,160 --> 00:13:13,400 Speaker 3: try to ask ourselves what are the big transitions that 211 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:18,359 Speaker 3: are required this decade and next. So that includes eliminating 212 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:23,160 Speaker 3: the internal combustion engine, it includes greening financial markets, It 213 00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:27,280 Speaker 3: includes shifting dyers toward more plant pased nutrition and so on, 214 00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:30,120 Speaker 3: and they're about fifty of those. What we do we 215 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:33,880 Speaker 3: use an initiative called the System Change Lab, which we 216 00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:37,520 Speaker 3: co run together with the World Resource Institute and others 217 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:40,040 Speaker 3: that are heavily involved in it. And what it does 218 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:43,200 Speaker 3: is it measures these fifty transitions and it asked where 219 00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:46,720 Speaker 3: are they as they seek to approach tipping points? And 220 00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:49,960 Speaker 3: then it asks what is the special source that seems 221 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:53,440 Speaker 3: to get some of these past those tipping points? And 222 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:56,000 Speaker 3: where are the barriers that are preventing others, and so 223 00:13:56,040 --> 00:13:58,400 Speaker 3: what we try to do is look at those and 224 00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:01,640 Speaker 3: identify barriers that we could be helpful in removing. I'll 225 00:14:01,679 --> 00:14:04,520 Speaker 3: give you an example of something we're thinking about right now. 226 00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:08,679 Speaker 3: We now know that not only must we reduce carbon emissions, 227 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:12,719 Speaker 3: we've actually got to take greenhouse gases out of the atmosphere. Now. 228 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:16,200 Speaker 3: The best possible technology for that is planting a tree, 229 00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:20,440 Speaker 3: for example. So we have a very significant program of 230 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:25,480 Speaker 3: landscape restoration trying to put a coalition together to regreen 231 00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:29,080 Speaker 3: or restore one hundred million hectares in Africa. We also 232 00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:31,280 Speaker 3: have a program in the United States doing the same. 233 00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:34,800 Speaker 3: It turns out now that thirty five African countries are 234 00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:37,520 Speaker 3: really interested in doing this. It also turns out that 235 00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:40,040 Speaker 3: we have technology that we can measure it. We're financing 236 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:42,640 Speaker 3: that as well. It also turns out that there's quite 237 00:14:42,640 --> 00:14:46,520 Speaker 3: a bit of public and private money sitting on the sidelines. 238 00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:50,040 Speaker 3: And whilst there are actually thousands of community groups in 239 00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:52,080 Speaker 3: Africa that are very good at this, there are no 240 00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:56,080 Speaker 3: intermediating institutions. So what we think is what could we 241 00:14:56,120 --> 00:14:59,359 Speaker 3: do well. We could play a role, getting the methodology 242 00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:02,640 Speaker 3: and the satellite system to measure. We also could play 243 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:07,320 Speaker 3: a role in helping to create those intermediating institutions that 244 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:10,600 Speaker 3: would be an example of how we go about it. 245 00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:13,560 Speaker 3: They also, though we've you and I have come to 246 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:18,920 Speaker 3: a conclusion that simply that technology of photosynthesis is not 247 00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:21,560 Speaker 3: enough to take everything out. So we're actually looking at 248 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:24,960 Speaker 3: some other ways of taking carbon out of the air through, 249 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:30,280 Speaker 3: for example, the possibility of ocean absorption, the possibility of 250 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:35,680 Speaker 3: weathering where various chemical processes can take carbon dioxide. And 251 00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:38,640 Speaker 3: even you know, there's some sort of frontier technologies that 252 00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:42,880 Speaker 3: are nowhere close to commercialization, so no one's actually investing 253 00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:46,720 Speaker 3: in them. For example, how do you take methane out 254 00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:49,720 Speaker 3: of the atmosphere? Very very hard to do, But unless 255 00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:53,359 Speaker 3: we invest now in that, we won't have the technologies 256 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:56,480 Speaker 3: we need twenty years from now, when it will sadly 257 00:15:56,520 --> 00:15:57,240 Speaker 3: be essential. 258 00:15:57,800 --> 00:16:00,560 Speaker 1: Now you're talking about carbon removal here, because we need 259 00:16:00,560 --> 00:16:03,520 Speaker 1: to draw down carbon dioxide from the atmosphere. It will 260 00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:05,240 Speaker 1: be a big thing that we'll have to work on. 261 00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:09,040 Speaker 1: But currently the majority of the problem is to try 262 00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:12,880 Speaker 1: and actually reduce emissions. But given as a climate journalist 263 00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:18,080 Speaker 1: covering this subject, just the sheer amount of intellectual capacity 264 00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:21,360 Speaker 1: that is going towards the offset problem, which remains a 265 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:25,480 Speaker 1: very small market billion dollars two billion dollars relative to 266 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:28,160 Speaker 1: the three trillion dollars worth of mitigation work that needs 267 00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:30,920 Speaker 1: to be done. Why do you think when you thought 268 00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:34,000 Speaker 1: of the right example to talk about where philanthropy can 269 00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:37,400 Speaker 1: make a difference, was carbon offsets or carbon markets the 270 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:40,760 Speaker 1: right place to try and invest money or even bring 271 00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:45,120 Speaker 1: that up as the star example that philanthropy is helping improve. 272 00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:50,440 Speaker 3: Oh, maybe I was not clear. We've allocated three billion 273 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:55,600 Speaker 3: dollars for nature, a billion dollars for conservation, a billion 274 00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:59,440 Speaker 3: dollars for restoration, and a billion dollars for food system transformation, 275 00:16:59,760 --> 00:17:03,080 Speaker 3: and we're still obviously allocating that money at the BASEOS 276 00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:07,320 Speaker 3: fund of that first, the conservation a very very small 277 00:17:07,560 --> 00:17:10,000 Speaker 3: fraction of that, I mean so far it would be 278 00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:12,960 Speaker 3: I don't know, maybe ten million dollars of that would 279 00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:16,919 Speaker 3: be to help set standards for the carbon markets. We 280 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:20,680 Speaker 3: are spending, you know, one hundred and ten million dollars 281 00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:25,879 Speaker 3: of grants in the Congo basin to help government and 282 00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:30,760 Speaker 3: civil society conserve nature that carbon markets don't play a 283 00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:32,679 Speaker 3: role in that At all, and we're doing exactly the 284 00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:37,199 Speaker 3: same in Latin America and tropical Andes, for example. I 285 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:40,480 Speaker 3: think they do have a role, but much more important 286 00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:44,560 Speaker 3: is conserving nature, because that's not a minor part of 287 00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:48,800 Speaker 3: the issue. Rural space is responsible for more than a 288 00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:53,360 Speaker 3: third of emissions, and so we really have to address that. 289 00:17:56,080 --> 00:17:58,880 Speaker 1: After the break. Should Amazon be doing more to cut 290 00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:01,920 Speaker 1: its own emissions? And what happens to the money when 291 00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:16,080 Speaker 1: the decisive decade is done? The Visas Art Fund was 292 00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:18,800 Speaker 1: completely new when you started it, and the money is 293 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:21,720 Speaker 1: supposed to be spent by twenty thirty. What happens next? 294 00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:26,000 Speaker 3: Well, yes, I left a job where we had seventeen 295 00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:30,359 Speaker 3: hundred people, and then I was employee number one in 296 00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:33,600 Speaker 3: my new job, and we're sort of ramping up basically, 297 00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:37,600 Speaker 3: you know, we're willing to take risks. We should inject 298 00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:41,720 Speaker 3: funds very thoughtfully but boldly, and we'll see if it works, 299 00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:43,840 Speaker 3: and we'll do our best to make sure it works, 300 00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:46,480 Speaker 3: and if it does work, we will then ramp that 301 00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:49,560 Speaker 3: up together with partners. And we do nothing on our own. 302 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:52,560 Speaker 3: We don't simply write a check and say could you 303 00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:54,959 Speaker 3: come back tell us how you're doing a year from now. So, 304 00:18:55,119 --> 00:19:01,480 Speaker 3: for example, the Congo Basin is the most precious ecosystem imaginable. 305 00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:05,520 Speaker 3: It sequesters more carbon than the Amazon and Southeast Asia 306 00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:08,920 Speaker 3: tropical forest combined, and it's massively threatened at the moment. 307 00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:11,080 Speaker 3: So we wanted to go in there. But we've got 308 00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:14,040 Speaker 3: to be honest, this is a difficult place to work in. 309 00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:17,240 Speaker 3: Some parts of these countries are very remote and sometimes 310 00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:20,280 Speaker 3: governance is not what it should be. So what we did, 311 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:24,960 Speaker 3: we said, we gather nine leading institutions, mainly NGOs, but 312 00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:28,520 Speaker 3: scientific institutions that have deep roots there. We said, look, 313 00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:31,000 Speaker 3: we're going to finance all of you. You have two jobs. 314 00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:33,639 Speaker 3: Job number one is within your own sphere of expertise. 315 00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:35,679 Speaker 3: You have to deliver the way we've discussed with you. 316 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:38,200 Speaker 3: Thing number two, you've got to be part of a 317 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:40,800 Speaker 3: team with us, so that as a team, for the 318 00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:43,200 Speaker 3: first time ever, we're able to engage at the head 319 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:47,280 Speaker 3: of state level at any level we like, including with 320 00:19:47,359 --> 00:19:50,200 Speaker 3: other donors. We're now working with a number of European donors. 321 00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:53,080 Speaker 3: Let's do it together kind of thing, and then we 322 00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:57,000 Speaker 3: would have full time person that would be helping to 323 00:19:57,119 --> 00:20:01,640 Speaker 3: oversee and drive that joint program together. So that's the 324 00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:02,920 Speaker 3: sort of way we would work. 325 00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:05,280 Speaker 1: And so what happens after twenty thirty when the money 326 00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:05,879 Speaker 1: is all spent. 327 00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:09,480 Speaker 3: Well, of course this is the decisive decade, and the 328 00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:13,000 Speaker 3: next decade will also be decisive. The reason this is 329 00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:16,199 Speaker 3: especially decisive is if we don't get it right this decade, 330 00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:20,520 Speaker 3: actually next decade, it will be impossibly expensive to do 331 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:24,439 Speaker 3: anything and will quite frankly be too late. So I 332 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:28,119 Speaker 3: have a full time job from now to twenty thirty. 333 00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:31,720 Speaker 3: Clearly there will be all kinds of needs for the 334 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:33,160 Speaker 3: twenty thirties as well. 335 00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:36,720 Speaker 1: So one example then would be COP fifteen in December, 336 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:40,400 Speaker 1: which has been called a Paris for nature, set out 337 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:44,120 Speaker 1: this goal of protecting thirty percent of land and oceans 338 00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:47,800 Speaker 1: by twenty thirty. Ambitious goal, something that had been called 339 00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:50,800 Speaker 1: for for years, and now all these governments have come 340 00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:53,720 Speaker 1: together and agreed upon it. But as soon as that 341 00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:57,679 Speaker 1: high level goal is agreed upon, it becomes a minefield. 342 00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:00,760 Speaker 1: The number of questions about what does that that really mean? 343 00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:03,359 Speaker 1: How do we measure it? Does it mean no humans 344 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:06,600 Speaker 1: can do anything in that land? How do countries in 345 00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:10,920 Speaker 1: different parts with different capabilities and wealth work on those 346 00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:14,080 Speaker 1: Is that something that you're working on to try and 347 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:18,320 Speaker 1: create clearer understanding of what thirty by thirty would mean, 348 00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:21,760 Speaker 1: because it's really important that we not just tackle the 349 00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:25,760 Speaker 1: climate crisis, but the biodiversity crisis and the solution sometimes overlap. 350 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:28,840 Speaker 3: Yes, indeed, I mean I think you've clarified the issue 351 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:34,520 Speaker 3: very helpfully. We need a political commitment based upon good science, 352 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:37,280 Speaker 3: and that's what we've now got. Getting to thirty will 353 00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:40,960 Speaker 3: be a huge achievement. It will need to double essentially 354 00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:44,200 Speaker 3: protection on land, and it will need to more than 355 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:47,880 Speaker 3: double protection of the ocean. And we've got seven years 356 00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:50,719 Speaker 3: to do it. So this is difficult. And as you say, 357 00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:55,959 Speaker 3: now the real challenge begins which thirty percent and what 358 00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:58,160 Speaker 3: does it mean to protect? And I think there are 359 00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:00,840 Speaker 3: definitions of what it means to protect pretty well. It 360 00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:03,840 Speaker 3: doesn't mean totally and utterly no humans in it. On 361 00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:07,000 Speaker 3: the contrary, in many parts it is indigenous people who 362 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:11,080 Speaker 3: live there that are responsible for doing a very good 363 00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:13,639 Speaker 3: job at the moment in protection. And part of the 364 00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:17,440 Speaker 3: way of insuring thirty by thirty is to give indigenous 365 00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:21,639 Speaker 3: people more rights and the ability to protect those rights. So, 366 00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:26,240 Speaker 3: for example, in Montreal, the Canadian government announced a massive 367 00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:30,119 Speaker 3: increase in its own protected areas in four areas that 368 00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:33,680 Speaker 3: are going to be overseen by first nations. But as 369 00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:37,159 Speaker 3: you say, country by country governments need to decide do 370 00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:39,080 Speaker 3: they want to really be part of it. If they 371 00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:41,679 Speaker 3: do want to be part of it, we need to 372 00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:46,240 Speaker 3: bring in whatever support we can. And yesterday here in Davos, 373 00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:50,439 Speaker 3: we had ministers from Indonesia, from the Democratic Republic of Congo, 374 00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:54,600 Speaker 3: from Bangladesh, Ghana, together with people like John Kerry and 375 00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:57,479 Speaker 3: the German government, the British government, and then philanthropias like 376 00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:01,080 Speaker 3: based Ors, Earth Fund, the More Foundation and others that 377 00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:05,520 Speaker 3: care about this and basically are setting up a process 378 00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:09,120 Speaker 3: by which we would be available to be helpful as 379 00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:13,280 Speaker 3: a team to major countries that are serious about this. 380 00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:17,760 Speaker 1: Is climate philanthropy the new superyacht. Will we see competition 381 00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:19,639 Speaker 1: for who can do it bigger and better? 382 00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:25,560 Speaker 3: I've been impressed by how philanthropists are able to work together. 383 00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:28,679 Speaker 3: That's not to say that from time to time there 384 00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:32,040 Speaker 3: would not be some competition. I have not witnessed that 385 00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:35,800 Speaker 3: so far. I, on the contrary, have witnessed an enthusiasm 386 00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:38,920 Speaker 3: for working together. So for example, a year ago when 387 00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:44,159 Speaker 3: we were concerned that this thirty by thirty, political momentum 388 00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:49,040 Speaker 3: was slowing, and only like fifty countries had said they 389 00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:51,479 Speaker 3: thought it was a good idea. We worked with other 390 00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:55,840 Speaker 3: philanthropists and as a group we were able to put 391 00:23:56,119 --> 00:23:59,560 Speaker 3: five billion dollars of grants on the table, you know, 392 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:04,040 Speaker 3: at the United Nations General Assembly. We were able to say, look, 393 00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:08,120 Speaker 3: we're serious, this is funds that we would if you 394 00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:11,159 Speaker 3: guys can come up with an agreement on thirty by thirty, 395 00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:15,520 Speaker 3: we're willing to put this totally online. And that was remarkable. 396 00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:19,040 Speaker 3: I mean that was put together within two months, that 397 00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:22,320 Speaker 3: whole idea. I found it quite inspiring, and I actually 398 00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:25,879 Speaker 3: think working together is really important. Now Having said that, 399 00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:29,400 Speaker 3: one of the great things about some modern philanthropists is 400 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:34,760 Speaker 3: that they're based upon wealth that came because of great 401 00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:39,399 Speaker 3: ambition and brilliance on the part of their leaders. And 402 00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:43,920 Speaker 3: actually that's pretty valuable in our space. For too long, 403 00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:49,600 Speaker 3: environmentalism has been very well intentioned and often excellent, but 404 00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:55,520 Speaker 3: hasn't necessarily benefited from the kind of leadership that some 405 00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:57,960 Speaker 3: modern philanthropists can be helpful in providing. 406 00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:02,600 Speaker 1: Amazon made Bezos fabulously wealthy given the money to be 407 00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:06,960 Speaker 1: able to create this Earth Fund, but Amazon's emissions continue 408 00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:09,760 Speaker 1: to go up. In twenty twenty one, they increased eighteen percent. 409 00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:13,439 Speaker 1: And Bezos is the chair of the Earth Fund, but 410 00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:16,719 Speaker 1: he's also the chair of Amazon. Why is it that 411 00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:19,320 Speaker 1: Amazon continues to not go down the path that you 412 00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:22,879 Speaker 1: would expect reduce their emissions in line with what's needed 413 00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:24,600 Speaker 1: for meeting climicals. 414 00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:27,920 Speaker 3: Well, just to be clear, I work for the Baseos 415 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:31,399 Speaker 3: Earth Fund. I do not work for Amazon. It's a 416 00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:32,760 Speaker 3: totally different organization. 417 00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:37,240 Speaker 1: But you must have conversations with Jeff Bezos about Amazon's 418 00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:39,520 Speaker 1: progress given the skill of the organization. 419 00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:42,640 Speaker 3: Well, one thing I would say is that this week 420 00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:46,920 Speaker 3: hearing Davos, for example, members of the Climate Pledge, which 421 00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:49,960 Speaker 3: is a group of businesses which was started by Amazon 422 00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:54,760 Speaker 3: that is committed to net zero, ten years ahead of 423 00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:57,920 Speaker 3: what the science tells us. We need to be yes. 424 00:25:57,760 --> 00:25:59,639 Speaker 1: Yes, So that goal is to reach net zero by 425 00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:01,360 Speaker 1: twenty one for Amazon and each. 426 00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:06,200 Speaker 3: Of those each of those companies have plans in place, 427 00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:10,280 Speaker 3: and that ranges from trying to address their scope three emissions, 428 00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:14,560 Speaker 3: which is the entire supply chain and that's very hard 429 00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:19,000 Speaker 3: to do, to electrifying their their delivery fleets for example. 430 00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:21,280 Speaker 3: So you know this is a journey, and there will 431 00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:24,880 Speaker 3: be times when when emissions go up, either because your 432 00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:29,000 Speaker 3: sales go up or for some other reason. The point 433 00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:32,200 Speaker 3: is to keep your eye on the prize to twenty 434 00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:35,960 Speaker 3: twenty five, twenty thirty, twenty forty and so on. 435 00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:39,480 Speaker 1: Now you've worked on climate issues for a long time, 436 00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:44,239 Speaker 1: but we happen to be at this juncture facing two 437 00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:48,240 Speaker 1: kinds of trends. One, we hit a record greenhouse gas 438 00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:51,879 Speaker 1: emissions in twenty twenty two. Two we have never spent 439 00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:57,080 Speaker 1: more money, more effort, more talent, more people power on 440 00:26:57,280 --> 00:27:00,400 Speaker 1: trying to tackle the climate crisis. How do you live 441 00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:01,800 Speaker 1: in this two track world? 442 00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:07,159 Speaker 3: It's very well put. If you take two experts, well meaning, 443 00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:10,920 Speaker 3: good people and you say how we doing, one will 444 00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:14,159 Speaker 3: say it's fantastic. You know what I mean. The price 445 00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:18,560 Speaker 3: of solar energy has fallen ninety nine point six percent 446 00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:21,960 Speaker 3: since Jimmy Carter put solar panels on the roof of 447 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:25,600 Speaker 3: the White House in nineteen seventy nine. And they'll give 448 00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:29,640 Speaker 3: many statements like that. And one hundred and twenty countries 449 00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:33,040 Speaker 3: are committed to net zero. One hundred and thirty trillion 450 00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:36,960 Speaker 3: dollars of assets under management are committed to net zero. Unbelievable. 451 00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:39,320 Speaker 3: And then you talk to the other one, they say, 452 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:42,560 Speaker 3: you know, we're heading off a cliff like a bunch 453 00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:43,160 Speaker 3: of lemmings. 454 00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:47,040 Speaker 1: Never use more call they never put out more greenhouse 455 00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:50,359 Speaker 1: gas emissions. There's never been more tension in the world 456 00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:52,720 Speaker 1: in the last thirty years of knowing that's right, that 457 00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:57,879 Speaker 1: climate change is a problem, geopolitics is fragmented, the immediate 458 00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:02,159 Speaker 1: crises are growing in number, and terms like polycrises have 459 00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:02,960 Speaker 1: been created. 460 00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:10,280 Speaker 3: That's absolutely correct. Last year, what two point five trillion 461 00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:13,399 Speaker 3: dollars were invested in the energy sector as a whole. 462 00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:18,240 Speaker 3: Of that, two point five one trillion was in fossil fuels, 463 00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:22,760 Speaker 3: and one point five trillion was in clean energy, including 464 00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:25,720 Speaker 3: energy efficiency and all the renewables so to speak. You 465 00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:28,080 Speaker 3: can look at that number and say that's incredible. I mean, 466 00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:31,160 Speaker 3: and well over half of the new generating capacity last 467 00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:35,879 Speaker 3: year was from renewables. Unbelievable. But if we're going to 468 00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:40,360 Speaker 3: stay within one point five the renewables need to be 469 00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:44,000 Speaker 3: three times as fast, and we need to close nine 470 00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:47,880 Speaker 3: hundred and twenty five coal plants every single year. So 471 00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:51,000 Speaker 3: sort of the analogy is sort of it's you know, 472 00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:54,720 Speaker 3: the dog chasing the bus, and the dog is running 473 00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:57,080 Speaker 3: faster and faster. That's us trying to solve the problem. 474 00:28:57,080 --> 00:28:59,719 Speaker 3: And we've never run so fast, and we're we're so 475 00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:04,280 Speaker 3: please with ourselves. The bus is accelerating away, and of 476 00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:07,880 Speaker 3: course the dog could keep trying, running harder and harder, 477 00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:12,240 Speaker 3: but will never catch up. And so, you know, continue 478 00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:15,520 Speaker 3: the analogy. The dog needs, you know, an electric bike 479 00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:18,720 Speaker 3: or something to we need a new way of doing things, 480 00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:22,200 Speaker 3: and that's exactly what we you know, we and many 481 00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:26,160 Speaker 3: others are focusing on. It's it yesterday when we launched 482 00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:29,120 Speaker 3: this idea of could we work together on the thirty 483 00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:32,520 Speaker 3: by thirty, you know, so instead of you know, thirty 484 00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:37,480 Speaker 3: different NGOs and twelve different governments and six different multi 485 00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:41,960 Speaker 3: national organizations and so many developers of carbon markets, all 486 00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:45,440 Speaker 3: trying to be helpful to the democratic Republic of Congo 487 00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:49,080 Speaker 3: or Brazil or Indonesia, and you know, all doing their best, 488 00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:51,479 Speaker 3: and some of it is excellent, not adding up. What 489 00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:54,120 Speaker 3: would it take to actually get it to add up. 490 00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:57,080 Speaker 3: That's that's what we have to that's the electric bike 491 00:29:57,160 --> 00:30:00,360 Speaker 3: for the dog chasing the bus. 492 00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:03,600 Speaker 1: This was a great conversation. 493 00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:05,840 Speaker 3: Thank you very much, Thank you very much. 494 00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:20,560 Speaker 1: Indeed, philanthropy's relationship to climate is a complicated one. It 495 00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:22,840 Speaker 1: feels like we shouldn't have to rely on the whims 496 00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:25,880 Speaker 1: of billionaires to fund projects that are necessary for humans 497 00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:29,400 Speaker 1: to thrive, and yet when not enough money is available 498 00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:32,600 Speaker 1: for those projects, we need all the help we can get. 499 00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:36,200 Speaker 1: That shouldn't mean that where the money comes from or 500 00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:40,800 Speaker 1: goes to gets less scrutiny. Thanks so much for listening 501 00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:43,400 Speaker 1: to Zero. If you liked this episode, please take a 502 00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:47,000 Speaker 1: moment to rate, review, and subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, 503 00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:49,920 Speaker 1: Send it to a friend, or send it to someone 504 00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:53,800 Speaker 1: who subscribes to Amazon Prime. Get in touch at zero 505 00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:57,760 Speaker 1: pod at Bloomberg dot Net. Zero's producer is Oscar Boyd 506 00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:01,600 Speaker 1: and senior producer is Christine Driskell. Our theme music is 507 00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:05,840 Speaker 1: composed by Wonderly Special. Thanks to Kira Bindram and Robin 508 00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:09,200 Speaker 1: Pomeroy at the World Economic Forum for letting us use 509 00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:24,360 Speaker 1: the podcasting studios in Davos. I'm Akshatrati back next week.