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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on

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Speaker 1: iHeart Radio and welcome back to Coast to Coast George

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Speaker 1: nor with you along with Alan Gordon. We are talking

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Speaker 1: about chronic pain and how to be living it pain free.

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Speaker 1: We'll take your calls next hour with Alan, Alan tell

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Speaker 1: us give us an overall of your treatment program and

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Speaker 1: how it works. Sure, George, So the first thing that

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Speaker 1: we do is we really want to make sure that

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Speaker 1: this isn't a structural problem, because, like I mentioned earlier,

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Speaker 1: the brain can actually misinterpret safe signals from the body

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Speaker 1: if they're dangerous and generate pain. Right, So, your back

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Speaker 1: is fine, the muscles are fine, the ligaments are fine,

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Speaker 1: the tendons are fine. But your brain is actually misinterpreting

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Speaker 1: these signals from from the nerve fibers and the pain

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Speaker 1: is actually a false alarm and we're able to help

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Speaker 1: turn that false alarm off, but we're not able to

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Speaker 1: turn a real alarm off. Right. It's like if there's

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Speaker 1: a false alarm, you just ignore the alarm and go

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Speaker 1: about your day. Bease like a tomb around the liver

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Speaker 1: or something like that. You got to find out if

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Speaker 1: that's happening. Exactly if there's a fracture or if there's

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Speaker 1: an actual injury to the body, we don't want to

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Speaker 1: treat it like a false alarm. So the first thing

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Speaker 1: we do is we make that determination. Then we really

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Speaker 1: help the patient gather evidence to reinforce that right. If

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Speaker 1: the symptoms are inconsistent, maybe if there was a lot

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Speaker 1: of stress at the time when the pain first came on,

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Speaker 1: if there's a lot of fear and preoccupation around the

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Speaker 1: sensation around the pain, these are all indications that this

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Speaker 1: is this a brain generated pain, what we actually call

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Speaker 1: neuroplastic pain, pain that is generated by the brain as

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Speaker 1: opposed to the body. And then what we do is

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Speaker 1: our central technique is something we call somatic tracking. So

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Speaker 1: generally speaking, as I mentioned earlier, pain is a danger signal.

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Speaker 1: So if someone has chronic pain and its neuroplastic pain,

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Speaker 1: it's being called by the brain regardless of whether it's

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Speaker 1: physical or mental. Well, if it's physical, again, we're not

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Speaker 1: going to do this treatment because we don't want to

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Speaker 1: treat someone who has an actual fracture in their back

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Speaker 1: as if it's a false alarm. But it is a

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Speaker 1: false alarment, and you know when I tell you a

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Speaker 1: little bit about the study that we did, and you'll

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Speaker 1: see the treslence of how common this brain generated pain

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Speaker 1: actually is. So we do this technique called sematic tracking,

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Speaker 1: and generally speaking, it's the fear and the preoccupation around

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Speaker 1: the pain that perpetuates a symptom. Right, if there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of fear and preoccupation around the sensation, it reinforces

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Speaker 1: to the brain that it's dangerous and it keeps the

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Speaker 1: pain alive. So what sematic tracking does is it's a

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Speaker 1: specific technique aimed at teaching the brain to reinterpret these signals,

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Speaker 1: reinterpret these sensations through a lens of safety, which turns

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Speaker 1: the pain off. Interesting take now, does it take a

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Speaker 1: long time to train your brain to shut it off?

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Speaker 1: I'll tell you what you know. It can. There are

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Speaker 1: certain people where it can take a few weeks of

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Speaker 1: doing this over and over. You know. There was a

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Speaker 1: great example is I had a friend who got a

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Speaker 1: rescue dog, and this rescue dog was treated really poorly

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Speaker 1: the first couple of weeks of its life, and so

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Speaker 1: it developed an association people equals danger. So anytime any

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Speaker 1: and one of us would come over to his house

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Speaker 1: and we'd knock on the door, the dog would run

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Speaker 1: and hide behind the couch. But of course, you know,

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Speaker 1: every time we were around the dog, Rocky the rescue Dog,

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Speaker 1: we were really nice to Ham. We would head Ham,

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Speaker 1: we would scratch his belly, and so you know, after

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Speaker 1: a few weeks, you knock on the door. He's still

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Speaker 1: behind the couch, but he's peeking out a little. A

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Speaker 1: few weeks after that, ring the doorbell, and the dog

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Speaker 1: is going to be halfway between the couch and the door.

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Speaker 1: And a couple of weeks after that, we'd come over

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Speaker 1: and the dog was just clawing at the door. He

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Speaker 1: couldn't wait to get to us. Right, so the dog

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Speaker 1: actually developed a new association, right, people equals safe. And

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Speaker 1: so that's what we do, is we give people corrective

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Speaker 1: experiences through somatic tracking, so that gradually the brand learns

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Speaker 1: to develop a new association. Oh, this sensation is actually safe.

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Speaker 1: I'm just like Rocky the rescue Dog. After enough corrective experiences,

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Speaker 1: the brand officially learns this sensation is safe and it

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Speaker 1: deactivates the pain. Can you have chronic pain from physical

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Speaker 1: ailments like fractures and tumors and things like that, Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: you can it's definitely possible to have chronic pain that's

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Speaker 1: caused by physical injury, and what's your way out for that?

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Speaker 1: Alan Because your program is not for those folks. Are

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Speaker 1: they stuck taking opioids? What happens to them? Well, there

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Speaker 1: are definitely pain management techniques to help calm the system,

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Speaker 1: and obviously their physical treatments like physical therapy and surgery.

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Speaker 1: For example, I ruptured of a ligament in my wrist,

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Speaker 1: and that was a real, actual injury in our Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was ironically when I was actually writing an article

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Speaker 1: about how to overcome wrist pain, So it was a

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Speaker 1: very ironic injury. But yeah, in those instances, you definitely

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Speaker 1: want physical treatments. But they did this amazing study at

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Speaker 1: Northwestern a couple of years ago where they took fifty

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Speaker 1: patients who had initial episodes of back pain and they

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Speaker 1: wanted to see if they could predict what percentage of

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Speaker 1: them were to go on to develop chronic pain. They

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Speaker 1: didn't take any X rays, it didn't take any MRIs.

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Speaker 1: All they did was took scans of their brains and

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Speaker 1: they were able to predict with eighty five percent accuracy

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Speaker 1: who was going to go on to develop chronic pain,

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Speaker 1: so more and more they're finding that almost all chronic

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Speaker 1: pain is actually not due to these injured these structural

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Speaker 1: problems in the body. Thank goodness, because if you do

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Speaker 1: have chronic pain that is generated by the brain, a

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Speaker 1: lot easier to overcome that. And you know, so I

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Speaker 1: would I would estimate that eighty five to nine of

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Speaker 1: all chronic pain is this neuroplastic pain, pain that is

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Speaker 1: caused by the brain and not do to these structural

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Speaker 1: problems in the body, because generally those things will go away,

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Speaker 1: won't they Exactly? The body is very regenerative. You know,

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Speaker 1: you could, you could. I've worked with There was actually

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Speaker 1: a football player that I worked with and he had

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Speaker 1: a nine millimeter discrimination, one of the biggest I'd ever

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Speaker 1: seen yet three different doctors who told him that he

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Speaker 1: needed surgery, and he played football just smashing into these

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Speaker 1: offensive linemen over and over for can you tell us

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Speaker 1: the team it was? It was actually in college, Okay,

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Speaker 1: and so yeah, he played for nine years in a

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Speaker 1: high school, in college, but he was able to he

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Speaker 1: had thirty years of chronic pain, and he was able

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Speaker 1: to completely overcome his back pain in about three to

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Speaker 1: four weeks. And so yeah, he had real injuries from

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Speaker 1: you know, real football collisions. But the body is regenerative

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Speaker 1: and even if you have injuries, generally they'll heal. In

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Speaker 1: the brain created chronic pain, where does it generally send

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Speaker 1: the pain to any spot of the body, any spot

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Speaker 1: of the body. The brain could actually generate any physical

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Speaker 1: sensation in any part of the body. You know, I

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Speaker 1: told you about my back pain, but I actually had

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Speaker 1: twenty two different symptoms in my twenties when I was

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Speaker 1: dealing with all of this pain. I had back pain,

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Speaker 1: neck pain, headaches, I had tongue pain, I had tow pain.

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Speaker 1: Was the pain real or was it just created in

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Speaker 1: the brain and it wasn't there really? Yeah? You know,

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Speaker 1: the thing is is people talk about imaginary pain all

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Speaker 1: the time, and that is you know, one of the

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Speaker 1: most common questions that we get is are you telling

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Speaker 1: me that the pain is in my head? And are

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Speaker 1: you familiar with the Harry Potter books? Yeah? Oh sure.

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Speaker 1: So in the seventh Harry Potter book, toward the end

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Speaker 1: of the book, Harry is having an exchange with Professor

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Speaker 1: Dumbledore and Harry says, Professor, is all this real or

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Speaker 1: is it just happening inside my head? And Dumbledore says, well,

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Speaker 1: of course it's happening inside your head, Harry, but why

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Speaker 1: on earth should that mean that it isn't real? That's right,

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Speaker 1: if if your brain perceives it, it could be. You know,

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Speaker 1: they've actually done studies for They've shown that whether you

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Speaker 1: have a structural injury or whether your brain is misinterpreting

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Speaker 1: signals from your body, the pain is processed the same

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Speaker 1: way and both instances, all pain is real. So even

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Speaker 1: if it's generated by the brain, it's experienced, literally, experienced

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Speaker 1: the same way. Then if you have a structural injury.

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Speaker 1: So we're never telling anyone the pain is imaginary or

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Speaker 1: the pain isn't real. It's literally these pain circuits in

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Speaker 1: your brain that are misinterpreting danger where there is not,

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Speaker 1: and they feel it. They feel the pain, don't they.

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Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, when I was dealing with chronic pain,

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Speaker 1: it was so bad at points that I felt like

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Speaker 1: I was going to pass out from it. It's real.

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Speaker 1: Will medication make a chronic pain in the brain go away?

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Speaker 1: Or not? You know, I've wondered that same thing because

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Speaker 1: opioids didn't work for me, but a lot of the

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Speaker 1: patients that I've worked with that's actually a great question.

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Speaker 1: I don't know the answer to that. It's hard to know.

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Speaker 1: Is it a placebo or is it really helping? So,

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Speaker 1: you know, I think that would be an interesting thing

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Speaker 1: to do a study about. Yeah, it really would. And

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Speaker 1: you know, when we open up the phone lines next

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Speaker 1: hour for you, Allen, and I'm requesting, most people who

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Speaker 1: call have chronic pain or have had it, Well, let's

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Speaker 1: I'll let you do a little quick study with them

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Speaker 1: and see, you know where their pains coming from and originating.

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Speaker 1: I would be happy to explore that. Fascinating. So where

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Speaker 1: does this take you with this kind of study? And

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Speaker 1: then tell us a little bit more about the book

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Speaker 1: the way out? Absolutely, So you know, so you're talking

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Speaker 1: about the study that I was telling you about. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was. It was really incredible. You know, we've been

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Speaker 1: doing this work for about ten years and yeah, and

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Speaker 1: it's it was really incredible because the medical community really

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Speaker 1: treats pain as if it's a physical thing. Like you said,

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Speaker 1: they prescribe surgeries, they prescribed opioids. When I went to

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Speaker 1: the best backdoctors in Los Angeles and I was you know,

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Speaker 1: it was all treated from physical perspective, and you know,

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Speaker 1: we've seen this treatment work for the majority of patients.

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Speaker 1: The majority of patients we worked with, they were able

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Speaker 1: to get out of their pain. And it was really

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Speaker 1: frustrating because we wanted to get this treatment out there.

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Speaker 1: You know, this chronic pain is an epidemic. There's fifty

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Speaker 1: million chronic pain sufferers in the United States alone, and

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Speaker 1: probably forty million of them don't have to be and

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Speaker 1: thirty nine million of them don't know that they don't

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Speaker 1: have to be. So, you know, we've been trying to

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Speaker 1: really get this treatment out there, but you're not really

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Speaker 1: able to, you know, change the way the medical community

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Speaker 1: sees something without scientific evian Well, and here's one of

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Speaker 1: the problems. I mean, a patient goes to a doctor

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Speaker 1: for back pain that really he doesn't have but thinks

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Speaker 1: he does. The doctor, in order to keep that patient,

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Speaker 1: may say, well, you've got to slip disc here or

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Speaker 1: you have this, and will continue to treat that person

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Speaker 1: for as long as he can. And I don't want

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Speaker 1: to say it's to make the money, but it's obvious

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Speaker 1: it's a patient absolutely, you know, And I think, you know,

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Speaker 1: one of the one of the tricky things is that

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Speaker 1: there's the paradigm out there is that chronic pain is

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Speaker 1: caused by a physical problem of the body. So even

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Speaker 1: a lot of well meaning doctors are going to say, oh,

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Speaker 1: go to physical therapy you have a discarniation, because that

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Speaker 1: is the current understanding. So this is actually a you know,

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Speaker 1: a remarkable incident that I experienced that led to the study.

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Speaker 1: But are you familiar with the show The Doctors. I've

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Speaker 1: not watched it, and I've heard it heard about it.

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Speaker 1: So The Doctors is a daytime show where they bring

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Speaker 1: in people who have difficult to treat ailments or you know,

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Speaker 1: mystery conditions. It's like a reality show, right absolutely, And

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Speaker 1: they have you know, physicians on and people who have

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Speaker 1: stuff that you know they're they're not they haven't been

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Speaker 1: able to heal from. And there was this sixteen year

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Speaker 1: old kid named Casey, and Casey had crippling abdominal pain

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Speaker 1: and it was so bad he had a drop off

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Speaker 1: the baseball team and drop out of high school. And

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Speaker 1: he went to Children's Hospital for a full year, and

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Speaker 1: they of course did surgeries. They removed as appendix. They

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Speaker 1: did another surgery where they were cauterizing adhesions. After a

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Speaker 1: year nothing, then he spent another year at another prestigious

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Speaker 1: hospital and nothing. And so the TV show reached out

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Speaker 1: to us at the Pain Psychology Center to do you

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Speaker 1: think you can help, and we said probably. So, you know,

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Speaker 1: we got his records and we determined, yeah, the pain

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Speaker 1: is real, but once again it's neuroplastic pain. It's his

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Speaker 1: brain generating this pain because it's misinterpreting signals from his body.

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Speaker 1: So we go on the show with him, and you know,

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Speaker 1: we're talking to the producers of the doctors and they say,

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Speaker 1: is there anything that you can do to actually, you know,

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Speaker 1: show what happens visually when that he overcomes the pain.

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Speaker 1: And we said, let's get an fMRI of his brain

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Speaker 1: before and after treatment, and an fMRI measures brain activity,

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Speaker 1: and so we get an firm of his brain and

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Speaker 1: we go on the show and over a few weeks,

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Speaker 1: he completely eliminates his symptoms. It's the most miraculous recovery

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Speaker 1: I've ever seen. He's back in school, he's back on

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Speaker 1: the baseball team. You know, his parents were over the moon.

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Speaker 1: It was incredible. And we get a second FMRID of

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Speaker 1: his brain after he's out of pain, and it was believable.

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Speaker 1: We actually found ourselves because of the doctors, because of

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Speaker 1: the TV show. We found ourselves with the first ever

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Speaker 1: fMRI case study of someone who had eliminated chronic pain.

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Speaker 1: But you can see it in the brain. Yeah. Absolutely.

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Speaker 1: The neuro radiologist called us up after looking at these

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Speaker 1: images and he said, I've never seen anything like this.

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Speaker 1: The you know, the the We actually show an image

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Speaker 1: of his brain before and after in the book. It's

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Speaker 1: it's incredible. Is it an abnormal malady? When they look

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Speaker 1: at it, you know, you could you could see pain

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Speaker 1: in the brain, and you know when he overcame his pain,

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Speaker 1: his brain looked differently. So we sent this We sent

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Speaker 1: these findings to this world renowned neuroscientist named Torweger out

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Speaker 1: at UC Boulder, and we said, look at what we got.

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Speaker 1: We got this amazing case study. And he said, this

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Speaker 1: is incredible timing. We're about to start a huge back

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Speaker 1: pain study. Was actually the biggest fMRI study on the

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Speaker 1: treatment of chronic pain that was ever being done. And

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Speaker 1: he said, we would love to invite you guys to

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Speaker 1: be part of the treatment and do your treatment is

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Speaker 1: one of the arms of the study. And of course

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Speaker 1: nothing is ever easy. And he said, us there's one catch.

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Speaker 1: We're out of funding and you would need to raise

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Speaker 1: one hundred thousand dollars in the next six weeks. Wow. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So of course we needed to get this study. This

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Speaker 1: was our chance to get this treatment out there. So

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Speaker 1: we actually did a crowdfunding campaign on indie googo dot

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Speaker 1: com if you're familiar with Yeah, and did you pull

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Speaker 1: it off. Yeah. It was amazing because indie go go

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Speaker 1: is you don't do crowdfunding campaigns for scientific studies. It

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Speaker 1: was we were competing against, you know, products like bacon

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Speaker 1: shaped jewelry and cups that smell like juice, you know.

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Speaker 1: And it was amazingly raised one hundred and thirty thousand

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Speaker 1: dollars in six weeks and we got the study. Listen

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Speaker 1: to more Coast to Coast AM every weeknight at one

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Speaker 1: am Eastern and go to Coast to Coast am dot

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Speaker 1: com for more