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Speaker 1: Welcome to Daily Variety, your daily dose of news and

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Speaker 1: analysis for entertainment industry insiders. It's Tuesday, September two, twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty five. I'm your host, Cynthia Littleton. I am co

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Speaker 1: editor in chief of Variety alongside Ramin Setuda. I'm in

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Speaker 1: LA He's in New York, and Variety has reporters around

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Speaker 1: the world covering the business of entertainment. In today's episode,

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Speaker 1: we'll talk with Brent Lang, Variety's executive editor, as the

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Speaker 1: curtain falls on another summer box office season, and Variety

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Speaker 1: Chief film critic Peter de Bruges weighs in from nine

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Speaker 1: thousand feet at the close of the Telluride Film Festival.

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Speaker 1: He talks about the early reaction to Bruce biopic Deliver

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Speaker 1: Me from Nowhere and other titles making waves in the

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Speaker 1: Colorado Mountains. Before we get to that, here are a

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Speaker 1: few headlines just in this morning that you need to know.

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Speaker 1: Call of Duty is coming to the big screen. Paramount

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Speaker 1: has struck a mega deal with Microsoft's Activision to develop

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Speaker 1: the video game franchise as a movie. Paramount CEO David

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Speaker 1: Ellison says in the release that he is quote a

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Speaker 1: lifelong fan of call of duty quote. It's a new

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Speaker 1: era for the Melrose lot. The Television Academy will honor

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Speaker 1: the Corporation for Public Broadcasting with its annual Governor's Award

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Speaker 1: this year. This is the equivalent of giving an Emmy

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Speaker 1: nomination to a show that just got canceled. Please look

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Speaker 1: up my interview with former CPB chair Bruce Raymer last

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Speaker 1: month for a look at what the end of the

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Speaker 1: CPB will mean for PBS, NPR and other public media.

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Speaker 1: Director Catherine Biggielow has a lot to say about the

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Speaker 1: need for nuclear disarmament. It may seem like a quaint

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Speaker 1: Cold War era concern, but she aims to sound the

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Speaker 1: alarm about this ongoing issue with her new movie, A

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Speaker 1: House of Dynamite. She spoke about it in Venice on Monday.

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Speaker 1: You can find all of those stories and so much

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Speaker 1: more on Variety dot com. Right now, now we turn

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Speaker 1: to conversations with Variety journalists about news and trends in

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Speaker 1: show business. If it's Monday, we're talking box office. Brent

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Speaker 1: Lang joins us to explain the summer long box office tallly.

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Speaker 1: This year's haul is on par with Summer twenty twenty four,

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Speaker 1: and that's not a great thing because this year's slate

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Speaker 1: was so much more robust, and we talk about why

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Speaker 1: Weapons was the sleeper of the summer. Brent Lang putting

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Speaker 1: the labor in labor day, thank you so much for

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Speaker 1: joining us and doing box office.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for having me well.

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Speaker 1: As the curtain comes down on another summer box office season,

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Speaker 1: it's been an eventful year. A lot of swings, a

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Speaker 1: lot of new titles, old franchises being revisited, the few

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Speaker 1: sleeper hits. I want to talk about the summer total

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Speaker 1: box office tally, but first let's talk about this weekend.

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Speaker 1: The summer sleeper has been Weapons, the Warner Brothers horror

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Speaker 1: thriller movie that rocketed back up to the number one

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Speaker 1: spot this week.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely and its fourth weekend of release, it made twelve

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Speaker 2: point eight million. It's made over two hundred million dollars globally,

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Speaker 2: which is a pretty phenomenal return on a movie that

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Speaker 2: costs thirty eight million going into the summer. I don't

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Speaker 2: think a lot of people knew much about this movie.

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Speaker 2: Something is happening with the horror genre, which has been

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Speaker 2: a very dependable one for Hollywood. You're seeing some taste

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Speaker 2: change a little bit because Blumhouse, which had been kind

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Speaker 2: of the taste maker. They did a sequel to Megan

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Speaker 2: two point zero that really bombed, and I think they're

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Speaker 2: having some difficulty figuring out whether or not their low

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Speaker 2: budget model is working as well at a time when

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Speaker 2: stuff like Weapons and Sinners which are a little bit

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Speaker 2: higher budget and a little more prestigee, With casts like

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Speaker 2: Julia Garner and Josh Brolin and Michael B. Jordan starring

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Speaker 2: in these movies, I think that people are looking maybe

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Speaker 2: for something that's a little more autori or something.

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Speaker 1: It's an interesting point that horror has become so popular

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Speaker 1: that you are seeing bigger names come into the genre.

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Speaker 1: And it's also interesting to see this in Week four

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Speaker 1: come back to number one. That is as hard as

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Speaker 1: evidence as you can find that there's word of mouth

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Speaker 1: on this movie. People wanted to check it out.

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Speaker 2: That's definitely true. Unfortunately, the counter to that argument is

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Speaker 2: that there's also not as much competition and not as

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Speaker 2: much compelling stuff out there. And when you look at

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Speaker 2: this weekend, you had two new films, The Roses and

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Speaker 2: Cod Stealing, and they ended up falling short of the

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Speaker 2: fiftieth anniversary re release of Jaws, that's not really a

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Speaker 2: sign of a very healthy marketplace.

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Speaker 1: With dark still has some serious bite. Sorry, I couldn't

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Speaker 1: physical Scott myself from making that judge, but Brent certainly

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Speaker 1: for cod stealing. It was not for lack of try

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Speaker 1: from star Austin Butler. He was everywhere. He did his

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Speaker 1: part to sell this movie for director Darren Aronofski and

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Speaker 1: Sony Pictures. Were there any glimmers of hope, any regional

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Speaker 1: pockets of strength for this movie?

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Speaker 2: I think this is somewhat of a disappointment. Under Tom Rothman,

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Speaker 2: Sony has done a pretty good job of still taking

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Speaker 2: bets on original films, but while they do that, they

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Speaker 2: have been very conservative with their budgets. So Caught Stealing

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Speaker 2: costs about forty million dollars. I can't imagine it's going

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Speaker 2: to make up profit theatrically, but that's not a ton

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Speaker 2: of money on something like this, And I.

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Speaker 1: Would imagine too the Austin Butler factor of it. He

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Speaker 1: has such a fandom that as this hit streaming, it

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Speaker 1: could be the kind of thing that didn't do much

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Speaker 1: at the box office but played on cable forever, the

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Speaker 1: modern equivalent of that.

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Speaker 2: There was some hope that he had been such a

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Speaker 2: phenomenon in Elvis and did the Dune sequel, that this

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Speaker 2: would spill over and that his above the title would

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Speaker 2: be enough to get people to turn out and force

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Speaker 2: the roses.

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Speaker 1: Obviously, the reviews weren't pretty tepid. What do you think

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Speaker 1: went wrong here?

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Speaker 2: It was a property that didn't have the kind of

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Speaker 2: affection that people thought. It's based on a novel which

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Speaker 2: then inspired a nineteen eighty nine film with Kathleen Turner

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Speaker 2: and Michael Douglas and Dinny DeVito, and for something like

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Speaker 2: this to work, you need the reviews to be great,

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Speaker 2: and the reviews were meh. And frankly, I love being

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Speaker 2: in a Cumberbacher. We did a cover story on him,

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Speaker 2: and he's a fantastic actor and Olivia Coleman's a great actress.

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Speaker 2: It just didn't look like something that people had to

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Speaker 2: go out and see on opening weekend. That's a real

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Speaker 2: issue again, the same thing with Codd stealing. But there's

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Speaker 2: a lot of stuff on streaming that's available and have

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Speaker 2: to have a need to see, and it didn't have it.

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Speaker 1: So let's talk summer overall. Where does Summer twenty five land?

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Speaker 2: Do you think, well, Unfortunately, it's basically flat with Summer

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty four, and that's at about three point six

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Speaker 2: seven billion dollars, and that's pretty disappointing because going into

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Speaker 2: the summer, there was an expectation that the slate was

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Speaker 2: very strong, that there were a lot of returning franchises.

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Speaker 2: You had two Marvel movies, you had Superman, you had

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Speaker 2: a Jurassic World film, and that you would actually be

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Speaker 2: able to hit or even eclipse four billion. And the

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Speaker 2: last time we did that was twenty three, where you

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Speaker 2: had Barbenheimer. What's happening is that Hollywood has seen a

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Speaker 2: declining interest in some of its more venerable franchises, and

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Speaker 2: that's a problem. You're seeing some tastes that are really

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Speaker 2: shifting heading into this summer. The idea that Leelo and

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Speaker 2: Stitch would be the year's biggest hit, or that Weapons

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Speaker 2: would be a big hit, or that Jurassic World would

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Speaker 2: end up outgrossing Superman and Fantastic four, I don't think

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Speaker 2: anybody would have predicted that. So that indicates to me

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Speaker 2: that the comic book genre in particular is really fading

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Speaker 2: in popularity. They still get a certain level of audience,

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Speaker 2: and they still have a very core group of passionate fans,

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Speaker 2: but it's not performing like five years ago.

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Speaker 1: I know that the Vox office experts such as Rebecca Rubin,

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Speaker 1: who you are once again substituting for, is she's busy

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Speaker 1: on the leado and cover and the heck out of

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Speaker 1: the Venezula. I know that you all study these numbers.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot to be learned from the summer. Brent,

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Speaker 1: thank you for taking the time to talk through all this.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: And now here's Peter de Bruges to set the scene

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Speaker 1: and the mood at the Telluride Film Festival this year,

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Speaker 1: Bruce Springsteen competing Hamlet Movies, Another Your Ghost Lanthemos, Emma

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Speaker 1: Stone collaboration and e Gen Carrol Telly Ride had a

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Speaker 1: little something for everyone this year. Peter de Bruges, Variety's

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Speaker 1: chief film critic, coming to us from nearly nine thousand

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Speaker 1: feet in Telluride, Colorado.

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Speaker 3: Thanks for joining me, Thanks Cynthia. This is my favorite

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Speaker 3: festival in the state.

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Speaker 1: Listeners, I wish you could see his smile. Peter is

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Speaker 1: in his happy place with smart people talking about interesting movies,

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Speaker 1: narrative movies, documentary movies. This is a heady festival, and

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Speaker 1: I always enjoy reading our coverage over Labor Date Weekend.

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Speaker 1: Tell Me what's the mood, what's the vibe of Tell

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Speaker 1: You Ride? This year?

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Speaker 3: Well, in general, tell You writes a special place because

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Speaker 3: it really is this elitist little bubble. It takes a

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Speaker 3: lot of money to come here, and the people who

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Speaker 3: do aren't necessarily film professionals. They're people who make Tell

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Speaker 3: You Writing their cultural weekend for the year. They binge

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Speaker 3: on movies that are going to be the best of

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Speaker 3: the year. Tell You Ride has a much smaller, very

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Speaker 3: carefully curated program from other festivals, maybe forty major movies

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Speaker 3: with some tinier things on the side, and so you

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Speaker 3: can rest assured that almost everything here is going to

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Speaker 3: be good well because they don't have to do the

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Speaker 3: thing at a festival like Berlin or Toronto does. With

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Speaker 3: nearly two under titles, They're the best of can They're

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Speaker 3: the best of Berlin. Their world premieeres. They share some

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Speaker 3: movies with the Venice Film Festival, where the movie might

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Speaker 3: world premiere a day before and then show up for

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Speaker 3: its very next stop.

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Speaker 1: One of the movies that Tellyride making a lot of

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Speaker 1: headlines is the documentary about Egen Carroll, the writer who

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Speaker 1: has been through an odyssey with President Donald Trump. And

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Speaker 1: this movie is also at Teller Ride shopping for distribution

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Speaker 1: because it's an extremely controversial topic.

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Speaker 3: By colleague Matt Donnelly found out in his interview with

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Speaker 3: Egene Carroll. It sounds like this movie may have been

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Speaker 3: available for several months to other festivals, and Tell Your

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Speaker 3: Rides the first one had the nerve to premiere it,

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Speaker 3: and we'll see whether distribution follows. It'll take a gutsy

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Speaker 3: company to stand behind this, but it's interesting here in general,

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Speaker 3: there's been a transition in recent years from Tom Luddy,

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Speaker 3: who is one of the founders of Tell Your Ride,

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Speaker 3: to his successor, Julie Huntsinger. Julie's really embraced documentaries and

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Speaker 3: nonfiction storytelling, and I really think that's reflective of a

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Speaker 3: transition we're seeing in the world right now where audiences

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Speaker 3: are too.

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Speaker 1: It's best of times, worst of times for documentaries right

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Speaker 1: now because there has been such a boom. The streamers

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Speaker 1: came in with a lot of money, a lot of commissions,

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Speaker 1: but documentary industry insiders who gathered at variety in Rolling Stones,

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Speaker 1: truth seekers event in New York just a couple of

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Speaker 1: weeks ago, were very much sounding the alarm. The gusher

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Speaker 1: of money that fueled so many careers and so many

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Speaker 1: projects has really slowed down. Let's get to the big

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Speaker 1: narrative titles that everybody was watching. From my perspective, the

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Speaker 1: biggest had to be the Bruce Springsteen biopick Deliver Me

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Speaker 1: from Nowhere Jeremy Allen White twentieth Century Studios. What did

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Speaker 1: you think?

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Speaker 2: Music?

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Speaker 3: Biopicks are my least favorite genres, and I always joke

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Speaker 3: that it's the same story always. This Blessedly is not

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Speaker 3: that narrative. Scott Cooper, the director, has taken a book

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Speaker 3: that's very specifically a out the making of the Nebraska album.

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Speaker 3: This was a really key moment in Bruce Springsteen's career.

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Speaker 3: I think people are really focused on whether Jeremy Allen

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Speaker 3: White can do such an iconic performance. That's what really

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Speaker 3: interests people about portraits of musicians. He's really terrific. It's

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Speaker 3: tricky because Springsteen doesn't seem like such a hard person

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Speaker 3: to capture. He's kind of so all American. You feel

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Speaker 3: like there are probably twenty actors who could play him.

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Speaker 3: But is there a single one besides Jeremy Allen White

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Speaker 3: who could sing the songs where I thought I was

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Speaker 3: listening to Springsteen.

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Speaker 1: Well, I can tell you this. I am old enough

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Speaker 1: to remember when that album came out. It was a

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Speaker 1: big deal because you had one of the biggest rock

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Speaker 1: stars who was about to hit the stratosphere with Born

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Speaker 1: in the USA just a few years later. It was very,

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Speaker 1: very critical of the Reagan Revolution. It was just a

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Speaker 1: couple years in and Ronald Reagan could not have been

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Speaker 1: more popular as a president. And here was Bruce Springsteen saying, Hey,

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Speaker 1: some of the things that are happening in our farmland

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Speaker 1: and in the heartland of America is not so cool.

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Speaker 1: Another title that had a premiere Pogonia from Yorgos Lanthomos.

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Speaker 1: Once again oscar talk for Emma Stone. I know his

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Speaker 1: movies are very hard to describe. Is this going to

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Speaker 1: be a mainstream breakthrough film for Lanthomos?

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Speaker 3: Well, Lanthemos is a real provocateur. He's the director who

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Speaker 3: brought us Poor Things and the favorite the Lobster, et cetera.

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Speaker 3: This is a remake of a Korean movie called Save

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Speaker 3: the Green Planet. Here you have Emma Stone playing the

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Speaker 3: CEO of a major chemical company who's kidnapped by two

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Speaker 3: Cretans from Middle America. They believe she's from an alien

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Speaker 3: planet and they're trying to torture her into a confession.

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Speaker 3: It's very disturbing, but it also has a texture, you know,

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Speaker 3: Cynthia of it. I just came back from Little Rock, Arkansas.

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Speaker 3: I grew up in Waco, Texas. I know the type

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Speaker 3: of people that we're seeing depicted here. And to have

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Speaker 3: a Greek director nail something that so steldom I see

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Speaker 3: captured by Hollywood, I thought it was part of the

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Speaker 3: thing that made so powerful.

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Speaker 1: Right now, we need our provocateurs. And then, as I

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Speaker 1: understand Peter, you had a surfeit of Hamlet movies that

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Speaker 1: Telly Ride this year.

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Speaker 3: It's a funny thing that film festival programmers do. They

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Speaker 3: seem to like it when the movie titles rhyme. There

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Speaker 3: were two movies called Dreams and Competition at Berlin year.

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Speaker 3: There are three Hamlet movies that Tell Your Ride. One

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Speaker 3: is a straight up adaptation contemporary starring Riz Ahmed. There's

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Speaker 3: another movie that Chloe Jao, who brought us the writer

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Speaker 3: in Nomadland. She reached into the deepest part of her

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Speaker 3: soul and pulled out this movie. The movie's about the

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Speaker 3: loss of Shakespeare's son named Hamnet and the impact that

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Speaker 3: that has on the parents. Jesse Buckley is just astonishing.

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Speaker 3: It really is a cathartic experience for the audience to watch,

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Speaker 3: like I'm giving myself goosebumps remembering what it felt like

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Speaker 3: to be in that room. The third one is a

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Speaker 3: very tiny documentary with Oscar Isaac, who is here for

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Speaker 3: Gierma del Toro's Frankenstein. Kind of a sneak peek. He

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Speaker 3: also played Hamlet on stage and at the same time

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Speaker 3: in his private life was experiencing profound tragedy. In the

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Speaker 3: park where they did these conversations, they had all the

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Speaker 3: Hamlets on stage, including Ethan Hawk, who played in Michael

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Speaker 3: Amorta's Hamlet years ago, comparing trading notes on what it

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Speaker 3: was like to play the Danish prints.

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Speaker 1: It's tell your Ride spin on Shakespeare in the Park.

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Speaker 2: Peter.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for being our reporter, our critic, for posting

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Speaker 1: all those reviews and being our guide here to what

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Speaker 1: Telly Ride is all about. Safe travels to you down

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Speaker 1: the mountain.

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Speaker 3: Thank you, Cynthia. This is really the starting pistol for

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Speaker 3: an exciting season that's ahead.

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Speaker 1: As we close out today's episode, here's a few things

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Speaker 1: we're watching for. Variety is busy producing extra print and

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Speaker 1: digital editions at the Venice Film Festival, which runs through Saturday,

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Speaker 1: September six, and we'll be all over the Toronto Film

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Speaker 1: Festival starting Thursday, also with dedicated digital and print dailies.

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Speaker 1: If that wasn't an enough, we're also doing digital dailies

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Speaker 1: this week out of Lajavre, France for the Rendezvous des

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Speaker 1: Unifrance market for French movies and TV shows. It's the

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Speaker 1: start of Prestige fall film season, and there's also a

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Speaker 1: boatload of new TV series coming soon. Thursday brings the

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Speaker 1: highly anticipated spin off NCIS Tony and ZeVA to Paramount Plus,

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Speaker 1: and The Paper premieres on Peacock before we go. Congrats

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Speaker 1: to Megan Colligan. She's joined roe Que Entertainment, a new

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Speaker 1: theatrical distribution label backed by Media Capital Technologies. Callagan was

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Speaker 1: previously president of Imax Entertainment and president of Worldwide Marketing

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Speaker 1: and Distribution of Paramount Pictures. Brent Lang had the scoop

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Speaker 1: on this new venture last week. Thanks for Listening. This

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Speaker 1: episode was written and reported by me Cynthia Littleton, with

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Speaker 1: contributions from Brent Lang and Peter De Bruce. It was

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Speaker 1: edited by Aaron Greenwald Styx Nix hick Picks. Please leave

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Speaker 1: us a review at the podcast platform Review Choice, and

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Speaker 1: please tune in tomorrow for another episode of Daily Variety