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Speaker 1: I am not pro Karen Reed. I am pro justice,

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Speaker 1: and y'all this ain't it. But you ain't got to

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Speaker 1: believe me. Here tonight, we have retired New York Police

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Speaker 1: Department sergeant Joe jack Alone. Y'all know Sarge from True

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Speaker 1: Crime with the Sarge. And we have a journalist from

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Speaker 1: Headline Crime. Y'all know Susan Hendrix. Y'all love them both,

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Speaker 1: you respect them both. And I'm going to tell you

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Speaker 1: John o'keeith deserved better. Sorge, jump on in here. I mean,

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Speaker 1: what in the world happened today?

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Speaker 2: Boy? I guess I tell people, if I had hair,

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Speaker 2: i'd pull it out.

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Speaker 3: This is it's really it's gotten to a point where

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Speaker 3: it's just absurd.

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Speaker 2: And the fact that you have people that are on.

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Speaker 3: The stand who should have fixed their cvs and resumes

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Speaker 3: and everything else that goes on last time they were here,

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Speaker 3: it still hasn't fixed it, and then have to testify

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Speaker 3: that they've been taking their you know, undergraduate degree for

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Speaker 3: seventeen years and they still haven't achieved it, which I

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Speaker 3: think even after a certain period of time, I don't

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Speaker 3: even think the credits carry over. I don't even know

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Speaker 3: about you know, how long you can keep doing that,

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Speaker 3: but still it is an it's abysmal.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's time the prosecution throws in the towel.

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Speaker 2: As far as I'm concerned.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think this case is over. And I tell

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Speaker 1: you I was very vocal that the first time they

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Speaker 1: had zero evidence of a murder, and I just thought,

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Speaker 1: how ethically do you ever try her again?

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Speaker 3: Well, and the issue that really comes down to is

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Speaker 3: I always thought me too, from the very beginning, that

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Speaker 3: murder was an overcharge or overreach. And if if somebody

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Speaker 3: was driving drunk on the mass Turnpike andilled and killed

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Speaker 3: some body, would they have charged them with murder if

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Speaker 3: it happened today, of course they wouldn't. Would be vehicular

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Speaker 3: mansel or whatever charger would be in the Manhattan as

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Speaker 3: you mean, in the Massachusetts pedal coat.

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Speaker 2: But you know it was from the beginning this case

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Speaker 2: was an absolute disaster.

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Speaker 3: And yes, the O'Keefe family and John o'keith specifically deserved.

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Speaker 2: A lot more than this effort. I could tell you

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Speaker 2: that right now.

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Speaker 1: And Susan, you have been street level, You've been there.

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Speaker 1: What in the world is the town feeling?

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Speaker 4: Unlike anything I've ever experienced? And the sarges a right,

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Speaker 4: call them the sargeant. What he said that this is

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Speaker 4: just unbelievable. Every day that I watched, so I was

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Speaker 4: there for about a week, and to see that house

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Speaker 4: where they say Karen Reid hit John O'Keefe, you realize

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Speaker 4: it's smaller than originally thought, at least from my perspective.

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Speaker 4: But talking about today, to be a fly on the wall,

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Speaker 4: and I would imagine what a lessie thought when he

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Speaker 4: was uncovering this, because, as you both know, it's usually

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Speaker 4: during a trial it can be the battle of the experts.

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Speaker 4: We even saw that in Delphi. It was about the

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Speaker 4: markings on the bullet and one expert said, absolutely, it's

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Speaker 4: like a fingerprint. The other experts said, no, it's not.

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Speaker 4: They usually cancel each other out, we find and the

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Speaker 4: jury kind of can disregard them both. But this, the

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Speaker 4: ethics here, or lack thereof, is what is so shocking.

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Speaker 4: And trust me, I went into this. I called Cheryl.

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Speaker 4: I said, I'm going to Karen Reid, tell me what

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Speaker 4: you think. I just watched the documentary. I didn't follow

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Speaker 4: the first trial, and I thought because of the bits

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Speaker 4: and pieces that maybe I heard that she was guilty.

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Speaker 4: I didn't look into it at all, mind you, I

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Speaker 4: didn't really even know the facts. I heard whispers of

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Speaker 4: it with someone who drank too much and felt bad

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Speaker 4: and hit her boyfriend. That's all I had heard. But

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Speaker 4: the more I watched and the more I understood to

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Speaker 4: me exactly bactly what was just stated to retry this

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Speaker 4: again but also second degree murder. Every day when I

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Speaker 4: watch it, I'm thinking, what is this real? And my father,

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Speaker 4: who's an attorney in New Jersey, he was recently here

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Speaker 4: with my mom, and I was filling him in and

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Speaker 4: telling him all about it, and I had him listen

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Speaker 4: on the way to a restaurant, I'll talk to anyone

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Speaker 4: who will listen about this by the way to the

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Speaker 4: opening statement, and he said, wow, that attorney is excellent.

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Speaker 4: It was Alan Jackson's opening. So as you can tell now,

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Speaker 4: I'm all in on this case. And really it's jaw dropping.

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Speaker 1: Every day it is jaw dropping. And you know Sargs

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Speaker 1: you teach at John Jay, there is no way in

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Speaker 1: your classes that you are not just hammering. Write a report.

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Speaker 1: Write a report. You've got to document. We not only

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Speaker 1: have one person but three that never wrote down that

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Speaker 1: she allegedly said I hear him, I hit him. I

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Speaker 1: hit him. And I know in my police academy, we

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Speaker 1: were tall. If it ain't wrote down, it didn't happen exactly.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I mean, that's that's the thing that even when I

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Speaker 3: was working in the police department, in the nic the squad,

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Speaker 3: I mean.

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Speaker 2: The the mantra was document, document, document. I would say that.

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Speaker 3: He was like buying a house, right location, location, location,

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Speaker 3: you have to document because it just it wasn't done.

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Speaker 3: And you can't get me on the stand saying well,

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Speaker 3: I did it, but I just didn't write it down.

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Speaker 2: That's that's not gonna fly. But you know, here's here's.

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Speaker 3: My other big issue that I have with this. And like

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Speaker 3: I said, I'm not pro car and read, I'm not

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Speaker 3: anti car read. I look at what the police do

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Speaker 3: in the criminal justice system and that's where I lay

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Speaker 3: my focus on. And the police failed to do that

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Speaker 3: job he had, both in Canton and specifically the Massachusetts

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Speaker 3: State Police. It was a it was mishandled. The crime

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Speaker 3: scene was mishandled from the beginning. And you know, you know,

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Speaker 3: as soon as you say crime scene, people say, oh,

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Speaker 3: so you do think it was a crime. No, every

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Speaker 3: death is treated as suspicious until proven otherwise.

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Speaker 2: Period, end of point, ended discussion.

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Speaker 3: So, yeah, any death, you treat it like a crime

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Speaker 3: because you don't know exactly what you have. And they

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Speaker 3: did not do that from the very beginning. They didn't

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Speaker 3: separate witnesses, they didn't take down any notes, they didn't

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Speaker 3: control the crime scene, they didn't wait to daylight to douce,

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Speaker 3: you know, certain searches in the beginning.

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Speaker 2: I mean, the list just goes.

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Speaker 3: On and on and through this entire I call it

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Speaker 3: now an ordeal because that's basically what it is.

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Speaker 2: I can't imagine being the Okey family having to go

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Speaker 2: through this.

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Speaker 3: But there is a lack of supervision that happened in

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Speaker 3: this case that is just beyond comprehension in so many

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Speaker 3: different words. Because that there therein lies the big failure

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Speaker 3: in so many levels.

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Speaker 2: And I'll tell you.

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Speaker 3: After the first trial, there should have been a complete

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Speaker 3: revamping of the training in Massachusetts. The governor should have

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Speaker 3: ordered it, because if this is the way you're training

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Speaker 3: your yeah, if this is your way you're training your

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Speaker 3: cops on how to handle crime scenes and then having

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Speaker 3: a sergeant and telling us that it's like, no big

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Speaker 3: deal to you know, change a custom is not a

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Speaker 3: big deal, and it's you know, I documented, so I

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Speaker 3: don't have to document it somewhere else.

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Speaker 2: It's redundant. I mean calling the chain of custody redundant

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Speaker 2: is absolutely crazy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there's no chain of custody. I mean, it's baffling.

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Speaker 1: You don't have a lead detective that went to the scene.

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Speaker 1: You've got a sergeant that didn't write a report even

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Speaker 1: though he allegedly found evidence. You don't have facts accurate

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Speaker 1: like date and time. You don't submit evidence for six weeks,

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Speaker 1: and then when you come to trial you have two

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Speaker 1: left shoes. You have somebody on the stand that looks

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Speaker 1: in the bag and says, hey, there's other stuff in here.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, Susan, I can't imagine going around

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Speaker 1: that town and seeing people go into bars and restaurants

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Speaker 1: and trying to do some shopping where they're not just

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Speaker 1: I don't even know how you would be walking around

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Speaker 1: with any confidence in your police department.

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Speaker 4: Well, I will say where the courthouse is. It's a

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Speaker 4: beautiful town, very close to Campton, very similar to Canton.

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Speaker 4: Everyone's talking about it. I spoke to this very nice

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Speaker 4: officer right outside of the courthouse, and he said, I

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Speaker 4: don't talk to anyone about it. He said, even my wife.

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Speaker 4: I just very nice guide. He just said, I can't

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Speaker 4: believe it. Everyone wants to talk to me about it.

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Speaker 4: I'm just here trying to, you know, keep the peace

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Speaker 4: outside of court. And I will tell you that at

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Speaker 4: restaurants there was a sign. I went there kind of

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Speaker 4: by myself. It was like a sports bar, and it

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Speaker 4: said like next Tuesday, the cops will be here on

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Speaker 4: stage for you know, and you could bid on the cops.

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Speaker 4: It's very much a we love cops, which is a

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Speaker 4: great thing. There's one aspect to that that's wonderful. But

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Speaker 4: it also made me feel like, of course there's a

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Speaker 4: brotherhood and that's understood, but is there also a brotherhood

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Speaker 4: in deceit? And what stood out to me the most

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Speaker 4: was that Brian Albert and being in front of that

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Speaker 4: house because it was the day that all media could

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Speaker 4: be there and they had Karen Reid's lexus there and

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Speaker 4: everyone out of the same kind of ten minutes to

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Speaker 4: do to be around that house, and of course the

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Speaker 4: jury had come and gone kind of touring that house,

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Speaker 4: and that he never came out of the house. I mean,

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Speaker 4: that's what he does for a living. I was thinking

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Speaker 4: about my husband. He has no history or background law enforcement.

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Speaker 4: He would come out, anyone would come outside, and nobody did.

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Speaker 4: And that was so telling to me.

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Speaker 1: I absolutely agree, And SARS, that's one thing I want

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Speaker 1: to throw to you. Other than NYPD, the Boston Police Department,

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Speaker 1: to me, is the most old school, havea your back,

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Speaker 1: blue line kind of department that there is. And you're

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Speaker 1: telling me that a police officer from Boston can die.

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Speaker 1: However he died and be on the front lawn. Other

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Speaker 1: police don't come out. The investigating Department does not put

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Speaker 1: the very best there is. The DA the Commonwealth has

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Speaker 1: not put the very best that they have on this thing.

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Speaker 1: They have not vetted their own experts. They did not

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Speaker 1: make sure that this investigation was pristine. This investigation, I'm

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Speaker 1: going to say, it is the worst I have ever

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Speaker 1: seen that made it to trial.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I can't I can't disagree with that. This is

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Speaker 3: this is beyond bed And you know, when you take

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Speaker 3: a look at exactly what transpired here, you just you

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Speaker 3: could just start examining each step of the way. It's

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Speaker 3: just from the very beginning. How many failures there were

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Speaker 3: and now continue to have failures. I mean the prosecution

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Speaker 3: in the first trial and even in the second trial.

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Speaker 3: I don't think that witnesses were prepared. I mean I

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Speaker 3: have an I have an entire problem with the criminal

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Speaker 3: justice system, you know, I mean the criminal justice system here.

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Speaker 3: We're talking about the police departments involved and the prosecutor's

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Speaker 3: office here.

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Speaker 2: It's just it's just, uh, it's just fraighting. Let's put

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Speaker 2: it that way. Keep everything Pg. Thirteen here, But yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's frustrating.

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Speaker 3: And in the you know, in the other issue that

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Speaker 3: you're dealing with here is like, you know what what

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Speaker 3: if Cheryl these were the best that they had and

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Speaker 3: put out boy oh boy.

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Speaker 2: Defense attorney's aligning.

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Speaker 3: Up and you have another Hey, you have another big

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Speaker 3: murder case that's coming out with the with the Anna

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Speaker 3: Walsh case. Who that guy Michael Proctor who has now

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Speaker 3: been severed from the Massachusettate Police with the lead investigator

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Speaker 3: in that case.

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Speaker 2: And then you have the Sondra Birchmore case that's on

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Speaker 2: the on the back burner.

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Speaker 3: So there are so many different things that are going

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Speaker 3: to happen up there that this isn't the end And

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Speaker 3: as a matter of fact, I think it's only the beginning.

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Speaker 1: Susan or people talking about the dog bite at all anymore?

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Speaker 1: Or is that just gone away?

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Speaker 4: Yes, I think that I remember watching one. I think

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Speaker 4: it was on ABC News. One of the jurors from

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Speaker 4: the first trial we speak in he said, that's what

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Speaker 4: did it for him, that in his experience, those type

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Speaker 4: of injuries didn't align with what the evidence was saying.

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Speaker 4: And so absolutely once I looked at that and thought,

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Speaker 4: oh my gosh. And what followed, the rehoming of the dog,

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Speaker 4: the selling of the house, the retirement of Brian Alberts

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Speaker 4: in the house he retired, I mean all the things

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Speaker 4: that followed. Brian Higgins a military base, getting rid of

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Speaker 4: his phone and taking out a chip from the phone

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Speaker 4: and throwing it out and getting rid of that. But

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Speaker 4: also something that I've never really seen or experienced before

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Speaker 4: with this case is the vitriol and the hate out

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Speaker 4: there that's around this and I can't and of course

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Speaker 4: John O'Keeffe that's number one, and thinking about him and

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Speaker 4: his family. It doesn't mean that I do not respect

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Speaker 4: the victim here just because I saw what I saw

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Speaker 4: and I'm not one. Everyone has enough problem, right, they

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Speaker 4: don't go on Twitter to start a fight. But I

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Speaker 4: will tell you in the little that I did post,

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Speaker 4: and it wasn't hateful at all. It was me outside

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Speaker 4: of the house and doing a stand up, if you will.

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Speaker 4: I had friends of mine that are journalists that I

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Speaker 4: respect and like say, oh no, did you fall into

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Speaker 4: the Karen Reid cult? But I don't think they're watching

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Speaker 4: really a minute of the trial because they're smart and

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Speaker 4: there is no way you can watch. I'd an open mind.

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Speaker 4: I have no skin in the game of who did

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Speaker 4: this and who didn't. It's sad that he lost his life.

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Speaker 4: Everyone wants justice, but the hate and the victriol it is.

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Speaker 4: It's pretty shocking.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I agree with you, and Sarge, I'm going to

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Speaker 1: tell us this to you because I've said, in this

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Speaker 1: particular case, the facts don't matter. And here's why they

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Speaker 1: don't matter. You're not going to be able to convince

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Speaker 1: everybody that some of that evidence wasn't planted because you've

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Speaker 1: lost evidence, you've mislabeled evidence, you didn't turn things in,

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Speaker 1: you don't have chain of custody. It's easy to me

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Speaker 1: that you've got people that are testifying based on memory only,

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Speaker 1: and they've changed that testimony a little bit. Did she

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Speaker 1: say I hit him? Or did she say could I

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Speaker 1: have hit him? I mean, it's just crazy and we've

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Speaker 1: seen more than one person that does not seem to

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Speaker 1: be telling the truth. And for our world, Sarge, the

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Speaker 1: rule is if you lie about one thing, you lied

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Speaker 1: about everything, So again, the facts don't matter.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's disturbing on so many levels because every time

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Speaker 3: I hear something new or see something that's coming from

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Speaker 3: the police side, you think, okay, maybe you know they

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Speaker 3: got their act together on this whatever, and then they

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Speaker 3: disappoint you again. Right, every time I hear something and

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Speaker 3: I look at it, everything's but are raised eyebrow and

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Speaker 3: I even question now every time they open their mouths

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Speaker 3: to speak because of the.

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Speaker 2: Fact that it is so bad.

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Speaker 3: And what I mean by so bad, I mean, forget

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Speaker 3: about just lack of documentation, but it's just they they

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Speaker 3: didn't keep track of the evidence. They don't even know

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Speaker 3: who had the evidence when they had it even you know,

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Speaker 3: and I know people are saying, well, you know it's

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Speaker 3: a conspiracy. Okay, if this is a conspiracy, this is

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Speaker 3: the worst conspiracy.

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Speaker 1: I have ever seen valid, valid point, you know, and

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Speaker 1: the like.

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Speaker 3: The old Ben Franklin thing says, right, you know, two

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Speaker 3: people can keep a secret, Three people can keep a

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Speaker 3: secret along as two of them are dead. Right. Only

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Speaker 3: the fact that that you have all this dysfunction, to me,

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Speaker 3: should be the story. You know. If you want to

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Speaker 3: believe in the conspiracy things, that's fine. You know, maybe

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Speaker 3: in the end they prove a conspiracy. I don't know,

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Speaker 3: but after the first trial, I had kind of promised

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Speaker 3: myself I wouldn't get involved because, like what Susan had

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Speaker 3: said is the plain vitriol, and then you end up

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Speaker 3: getting It's like that, you know, the famous Godfather scene.

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Speaker 3: You know, every time you think you're out and they

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Speaker 3: pull you back in, and you know, and here you

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Speaker 3: are again.

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Speaker 1: Well, you know, I would love to ignore it. But

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Speaker 1: I think this is going to be a case that

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Speaker 1: every single law school and every single police academy is

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Speaker 1: going to train off of for a while, just like Ojay.

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Speaker 1: There is so much here. Like I even told a

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Speaker 1: buddy of mine when some of the officers were on

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Speaker 1: the stand, they were sarcastic, they were standoffish, they were rude. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I don't know where they got their training about courtroom testimony,

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Speaker 1: but they just violated everything I was taught. And then

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Speaker 1: to sit there and use a word and then act

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Speaker 1: like you don't know what it means. They gave it

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Speaker 1: to them on a silver platter. Discredit me, is what

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Speaker 1: they basically said.

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Speaker 2: In my opinion, Yes, they they're not likable characters.

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Speaker 3: And that's the number one thing that they teach you

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Speaker 3: when you have to testify in court, you know.

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Speaker 2: And actually I learned a new word today, mendacity right

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Speaker 2: word before.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I had to look it up.

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Speaker 2: It's got to be Google trending right now.

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Speaker 1: Well, tell everybody what it is because I had the

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Speaker 1: same reaction you did. I got to look that up.

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Speaker 3: Untruthfulness and lying it's just another way of saying that

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Speaker 3: you're lying.

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Speaker 4: So who said that?

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Speaker 1: ALESSI?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I need a asaurus with his vocabulary.

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Speaker 3: Yes, right, Like I said, I always pride myself in

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Speaker 3: knowing a lot of words.

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Speaker 2: But I was like, wow, I don't.

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Speaker 3: Even know what that word is, and I had to

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Speaker 3: look it up, and I'm like, and you know what, though,

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Speaker 3: unfortunately it probably went over every jurors head too, or

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Speaker 3: most of the juror's heads to and I don't think

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Speaker 3: it kind of then holds the same meaning when you're

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Speaker 3: trying to make a point.

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Speaker 2: But but you know, I guess he didn't want to

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Speaker 2: come right out and say why are you lying? Right, because.

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Speaker 4: You know li likeability is one thing I think about

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Speaker 4: the Jody Arius trial, Casey Anthony, their attorneys, jose Bias,

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Speaker 4: Kirk Nurmi, who I'm close with now, Jody Aires's defense attorney,

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Speaker 4: the prosecutor. People have things to say about everyone. You're

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Speaker 4: kind of on a stage, if you will, But this

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Speaker 4: isn't it to me. It's more of and I understand

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Speaker 4: people who don't watch, or aren't watching, or don't know

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Speaker 4: the facts of it. I didn't watch the first trial,

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Speaker 4: as I said, but to listen to what we have

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Speaker 4: heard and to see the connection because I thought of

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Speaker 4: that they all grew up in this town. I've I'm

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Speaker 4: now friends with a lot of people on TikTok, and

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Speaker 4: again could go back to confirmation bias, but I'm watching

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Speaker 4: like everyone else and thinking, again, no skin in the game.

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Speaker 4: I want to see the facts and it's just one

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Speaker 4: shocking day after the next. But I wonder if we'll

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Speaker 4: ever know what really happened to John O'Keefe, and I

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Speaker 4: interviewed two girls and their twenties sisters and their mom

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Speaker 4: watched the first trial and told them to watch, and

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Speaker 4: then they were interested. They were there outside of the courthouse,

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Speaker 4: dressed in paint Karen Reid's favorite color. And I expected

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Speaker 4: to go there to see a lot of extremism, if

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Speaker 4: you will, kind of you go there outside of the courtroom.

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Speaker 4: They were highly intelligent, very kind, and they said they

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Speaker 4: were looking for justice for John O'Keeffe. They were there

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Speaker 4: with their mom. And I do wonder though, with the connection.

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Speaker 4: There are connections. If you look at the family tree

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Speaker 4: here the godmother of this person and the family's connected,

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Speaker 4: because it is kind of unbelievable. If you saw this

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Speaker 4: in a movie, you would think, no, that wouldn't happen.

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Speaker 4: But these people have known each other, a lot of

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Speaker 4: them for life. Because you think about who would you

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Speaker 4: lie for on the stand. And I do remember hearing

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Speaker 4: whispers during the first trial of House Long to die

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Speaker 4: in the cold. Then that stood out to me, caught

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Speaker 4: my attention for a minute. I was focusing on Delphi

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Speaker 4: and I turned away, but to see Jen mckab on

380
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Speaker 4: the stand and no one can just matter of factly state.

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Speaker 4: There was one young girl at the party that night,

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Speaker 4: and she you could tell when someone's telling the truth,

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Speaker 4: it's not shifty. It's yes, no, oh, yeah, that was

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Speaker 4: years ago. But I do remember seeing this person or

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Speaker 4: that person, not I don't recall. What do you mean,

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Speaker 4: I've never heard that word before. It's just it's evasive,

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Speaker 4: and it's I see why people are drawn to this trial,

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Speaker 4: myself included, because you're seeing something you've never seen before.

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Speaker 4: I haven't. And I wonder if they're regretting bringing this

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Speaker 4: back or retrying this case, because to me, it puts

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Speaker 4: the spotlight on the Alberts, It puts the spotlight on

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Speaker 4: Boston Police, Canton Police, Higgins, not Karen Read in my opinion.

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Speaker 2: And the state police.

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Speaker 1: You have to, yeah, absolutely throw.

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Speaker 3: Them under the bus because you know, Lieutenant Gallagher was

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Speaker 3: not a likable character again on this and he did

397
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Speaker 3: not do any do any favors by you know, grabbing

398
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Speaker 3: that leaf blower and finding not writing anywhere to cops,

399
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Speaker 3: the solo cups and the brown papers, you know, the

400
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Speaker 3: stop and shop bags.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I want to tell you something else. Trooper

402
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Speaker 1: Proctor stayed employed way too long.

403
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Speaker 3: Well, actually I had called that he was going to

404
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Speaker 3: get he was going to lose his job last year.

405
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Speaker 3: And the reason why is because they had an intram

406
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Speaker 3: Massachusetts State Police colonel I think it was. And the governor,

407
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Speaker 3: of course, you know, make sure that that person serves

408
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Speaker 3: at their at their behest and and if you want

409
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Speaker 3: to be the head and no longer the interview, better

410
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Speaker 3: do the right thing. But here what he hasn't done

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Speaker 3: And I said, the governor hasn't done any that they

412
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Speaker 3: haven't called for an entire revamping of the trade to

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Speaker 3: the state police.

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Speaker 1: Listen, I knew he was going to get fired. But

415
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Speaker 1: I'm saying once he admitted on the stand, yes, I

416
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Speaker 1: called her that, Yes I said this, Yes I did that.

417
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Speaker 1: No I didn't do this. No I didn't do that.

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Speaker 1: He should have been fired immediately, And they drugged that out.

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Speaker 1: As far as I was concerned, that wasn't a good

420
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Speaker 1: look either. Now I want to ask both of y'all. Vinz,

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Speaker 1: how important do you think it is that the medical

422
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Speaker 1: examiner said no homicide, that the medical examiner said doesn't

423
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Speaker 1: look like a vehicle impact.

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Speaker 3: Well, that's that's usually a big problem when you're trying

425
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Speaker 3: to charge murder once again, right, I mean it goes

426
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Speaker 3: down and as undetermined whatever they want to call it,

427
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Speaker 3: but that means it's required more investigation and more detailing

428
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Speaker 3: to exactly what transpired.

429
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Speaker 2: And I don't think that happened in this case.

430
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Speaker 3: As as a matter of fact, I'm questioning the entire investigation.

431
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Speaker 3: You know, when you have the Sally board video that's

432
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Speaker 3: like inverted, right, I mean, I mean the list just

433
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Speaker 3: goes on and on. I mean to say that you

434
00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:16,439
Speaker 3: have one mistake in a crime scene, okay, I mean

435
00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:18,880
Speaker 3: we could live with that, We can live with evidence dynamics,

436
00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:20,600
Speaker 3: we could live with the chaos of the scene and

437
00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:22,400
Speaker 3: all the different things going on.

438
00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:26,439
Speaker 2: But there's just too many to even count at this point.

439
00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:29,160
Speaker 4: There were mistakes in Delphi, and you know that Cheryl

440
00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:31,720
Speaker 4: and the detective Holman, who you know, well, just a

441
00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:34,639
Speaker 4: wonderful person, and he even said he's going through it

442
00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:36,800
Speaker 4: even to this day, like figuring out the mistakes that

443
00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:39,000
Speaker 4: were made. I mean, no one is perfect, and we

444
00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:41,760
Speaker 4: understand that. And I'm wondering, was there just so much

445
00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:46,199
Speaker 4: drinking that night, did something happen accidentally and then everybody

446
00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:50,160
Speaker 4: panicked Okay, so let's say that that happened. I'm clearly speculating.

447
00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:55,000
Speaker 4: I don't think we'll ever know. But the blatant disregard

448
00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:58,360
Speaker 4: for her rights, you want to just throw away the key.

449
00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:00,800
Speaker 4: What if she couldn't afford these attorneys, which she can't.

450
00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:03,120
Speaker 4: I believe they're raising funds. What if they weren't as

451
00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:05,760
Speaker 4: sharp as they are? I mean, my gosh, the lawyering

452
00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:09,040
Speaker 4: on her side is phenomenal, and I feel sorry for

453
00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:12,199
Speaker 4: her dad and brother. And just that to me is

454
00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:17,280
Speaker 4: you will let this woman be the fall person for

455
00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:20,080
Speaker 4: what happened inside that house. Some people are going to

456
00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:22,800
Speaker 4: disagree with me. That's what I think happened. But even

457
00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:25,640
Speaker 4: if you don't, there's reasonable doubt. Even if you think

458
00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:27,879
Speaker 4: she hit them, she doesn't remember, or she was drinking,

459
00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:30,399
Speaker 4: or she said it. You don't like her for some reason,

460
00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:33,200
Speaker 4: and you think she's one hundred percent guilty, that's your

461
00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:36,400
Speaker 4: right to believe that, but there is reasonable doubt. This

462
00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:39,560
Speaker 4: is our justice system. I believe it works. It works,

463
00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:41,719
Speaker 4: but I don't. Can they try her again? I have

464
00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:42,320
Speaker 4: that question.

465
00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:45,800
Speaker 3: I'm sure they could if they wanted to, but I

466
00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:47,199
Speaker 3: highly recommend it not doing it.

467
00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:49,359
Speaker 2: The second time Iraq. But Cheryl, let me ask you

468
00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:49,920
Speaker 2: a quick question.

469
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:51,840
Speaker 3: Have you ever done a death investigation where you did

470
00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:54,560
Speaker 3: in Canvas the entire neighborhood, knocking on everybody's doors.

471
00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:58,399
Speaker 1: Zero. Let me say this, in order to canvas, you

472
00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:01,320
Speaker 1: have to be there. And that's another thing I've never

473
00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:04,720
Speaker 1: heard in my life that the lead detective wasn't unseen.

474
00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:07,320
Speaker 1: But Susan, I want to say one thing, and I

475
00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:11,119
Speaker 1: want Sarge to jump in. When you're working a case,

476
00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:16,800
Speaker 1: any case, what you believe, what you think, or what

477
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:21,280
Speaker 1: you feel does not matter. That ain't evidence doesn't matter.

478
00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:24,120
Speaker 1: I can think somebody's guilty, I can feel like he's

479
00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:27,239
Speaker 1: a bad person. I can. However you want to frame it,

480
00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:32,159
Speaker 1: you have to have evidence that this happened. You have

481
00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:35,400
Speaker 1: a medical examiner saying I thought he'd been in a fight,

482
00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:39,640
Speaker 1: not a homicide, not a vehicular impact. Now I had

483
00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:42,720
Speaker 1: a chief that I worked for years and years ago.

484
00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:47,960
Speaker 1: If that had happened, our investigation was over. He let

485
00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:52,720
Speaker 1: the medical examiner kind of lead the way. In other words,

486
00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:54,720
Speaker 1: what are you investigating if there's no crime?

487
00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:57,960
Speaker 3: But if you remember in the first trial, the you

488
00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:01,080
Speaker 3: know was I think was Procter In another troop or

489
00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:04,120
Speaker 3: whatever was trying to get the medical examiner to change

490
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:08,560
Speaker 3: her determination on what the the manner of death was.

491
00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:11,440
Speaker 3: So that tells you that all that's all you want

492
00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:12,680
Speaker 3: to need. And I can tell you that right now.

493
00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:14,080
Speaker 3: If I would have brought a case like this to

494
00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:15,840
Speaker 3: the Bronx, they would have escorted me out the door.

495
00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:22,159
Speaker 4: Well, I remember Paul Hole telling this to me, and

496
00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:24,879
Speaker 4: I've mentioned this before. It was at Crime Con on

497
00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:28,359
Speaker 4: stage in Las Vegas, and he said he mentioned confirmation bias,

498
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:31,200
Speaker 4: and he said that it absolutely happened to him when

499
00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:34,480
Speaker 4: investigating the Golden State killer. Did everything he believed he

500
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:37,560
Speaker 4: brought into his investigation and everything that didn't the ligne

501
00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:39,399
Speaker 4: he kind of tossed out, and he said, I have

502
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:41,560
Speaker 4: to be very careful of this because it can creep

503
00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:44,400
Speaker 4: up on you your belief system. We all come from

504
00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:47,920
Speaker 4: a different backgrounds and different belief systems. And UNLESSI brought

505
00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:51,199
Speaker 4: that up when cross examining today, talking about anchor bias,

506
00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:54,359
Speaker 4: when your first impression is what you ride with along

507
00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:57,320
Speaker 4: the way and you keep it there, and confirmation bias,

508
00:25:57,320 --> 00:25:59,520
Speaker 4: of course we know what that is. I even thought

509
00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:01,639
Speaker 4: when I first started, when I went there and then

510
00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:03,119
Speaker 4: I started really watching every day.

511
00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:06,280
Speaker 1: I thought, do I have confirmation by it? What is like?

512
00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:09,640
Speaker 4: I thought, wait a minute, are we watching two different trials?

513
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:11,800
Speaker 4: Am I in the twilight zone here? Because I believe

514
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:14,399
Speaker 4: one thing and it's clear to me that it's so

515
00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:17,119
Speaker 4: divided that I couldn't believe. I thought, do I have it?

516
00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:20,199
Speaker 4: And then I thought, exactly what you said, Cheryl. The

517
00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:24,440
Speaker 4: jurors don't have to weigh in on that, meaning it's

518
00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:26,880
Speaker 4: not about their beliefs. You're right, it's about the evidence,

519
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:29,840
Speaker 4: what is stated on the stand and reasonable doubt.

520
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:30,560
Speaker 2: Yeah.

521
00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:34,000
Speaker 3: Now, like I said, I have the first trial, I

522
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:35,320
Speaker 3: called it I think in a week.

523
00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:36,800
Speaker 2: At the end of week one, I said this case

524
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:39,480
Speaker 2: was ending in a hung jury.

525
00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:46,240
Speaker 1: Your second trial is not going to get stronger, it's

526
00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:48,879
Speaker 1: going to get weaker. And in this case, they lost

527
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:53,560
Speaker 1: the lead detective. They lost the credibility of the officer

528
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:56,840
Speaker 1: that did the re enactment. I mean he was taken

529
00:26:56,920 --> 00:27:01,440
Speaker 1: to school by the defense expert. I mean, why retire

530
00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:04,479
Speaker 1: you know the system more than me. That's what we're saying.

531
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:06,760
Speaker 1: It seems unethical to me.

532
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:10,960
Speaker 3: And you're talking about the trooper pol the vehicle collision. Yeah,

533
00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:12,800
Speaker 3: I mean I think we're going to see him again.

534
00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:14,800
Speaker 3: I think the defense will definitely call him in because

535
00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:16,879
Speaker 3: I mean it's a win for the defense bringing him in.

536
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:19,040
Speaker 1: That you've got to bring him in because you know,

537
00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:21,520
Speaker 1: the Glace just got that exactly.

538
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:27,320
Speaker 4: And he's not the soul in my opinion, it's not. Yes,

539
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:30,840
Speaker 4: his text messages were disgusting, and he was the lead investigator, right,

540
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:33,760
Speaker 4: he sets the tone. And there's a guy with solo cups,

541
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:37,200
Speaker 4: I mean, my gosh. But with Higgins and Albert, I mean,

542
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:41,920
Speaker 4: it just it's one after the other. What is the

543
00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:44,720
Speaker 4: goal here that they want to win or someone has

544
00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:47,879
Speaker 4: to take the fall for the I guess a police

545
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:49,520
Speaker 4: officer dying, I don't know.

546
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:53,600
Speaker 1: And y'all it's person after person after person. You know

547
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:56,800
Speaker 1: what about the woman whos said, well, I didn't want

548
00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:58,760
Speaker 1: to go knock on the door because I thought my

549
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:02,760
Speaker 1: sister was sleeping. Okay, if there's a dead person on

550
00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:06,840
Speaker 1: my lawn, I'm waking my sister up. Sorry, especially if

551
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:09,560
Speaker 1: I know her husband is a police officer. Give me

552
00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:13,240
Speaker 1: a break. I mean, it's not believable. None of it's believable.

553
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:16,040
Speaker 1: And you know, you do have somebody that lost their

554
00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:19,280
Speaker 1: life but if you listen to the medical examiner, how

555
00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:22,280
Speaker 1: long was he out there? Because he didn't have frostbite?

556
00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:24,560
Speaker 1: And then you have somebody saying, well, I'm going to

557
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:27,080
Speaker 1: research how long does it take to freeze?

558
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:30,640
Speaker 4: Really, do you think the judge sees and here's what

559
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:35,119
Speaker 4: we hear and how could she not? Or I guess

560
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:39,000
Speaker 4: it doesn't matter. She's just there to kind of referee.

561
00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:42,080
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I mean there's issues with that too.

562
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:45,680
Speaker 1: And y'all here's the thing. We're about to have an outcome.

563
00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:48,640
Speaker 1: I mean I think they should throw in the towel

564
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:52,880
Speaker 1: tomorrow and say, you know what, we've lost. The rails

565
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:53,880
Speaker 1: have come off this thing.

566
00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:58,680
Speaker 4: Can they do that? The state, the Commonwealth say, or

567
00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:01,920
Speaker 4: maybe the defense presents nothing. They don't call anyone to

568
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:02,360
Speaker 4: the stand.

569
00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:06,080
Speaker 1: I don't think they need to call anybody. Just keep

570
00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:07,320
Speaker 1: putting up their witnesses.

571
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:09,600
Speaker 4: And you're right, this is going to be talked about

572
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:10,600
Speaker 4: for a long time.

573
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:12,320
Speaker 1: Just it's going to be trained on.

574
00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:15,640
Speaker 3: I'm telling you, yeah, just like just like Ojay case,

575
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:18,880
Speaker 3: where you learned you know from, and I remember that

576
00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:21,719
Speaker 3: as a supervisor in the detective squad, know where your

577
00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:23,880
Speaker 3: people are at all times, so you don't cross contaminate

578
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:24,440
Speaker 3: crime scenes.

579
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:30,479
Speaker 4: Yes, and that's textbook compared to this trial, It's like

580
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:33,840
Speaker 4: they did nothing wrong in my eyes, meaning figuratively speaking,

581
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:36,320
Speaker 4: compared to this with the snowblower and the solo craps.

582
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:40,080
Speaker 1: But y'all think about it. You know, when the Simpson

583
00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:42,880
Speaker 1: trials going on, they made a big deal about the

584
00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:45,560
Speaker 1: vile of blood being put in the jacket pocket. Then

585
00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:47,080
Speaker 1: he put the jacket on the back of the chair

586
00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:51,880
Speaker 1: and walked away. So it wasn't you know, cared about

587
00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:57,240
Speaker 1: and you know, treated like it should have been. Anybody

588
00:29:57,240 --> 00:29:58,880
Speaker 1: could have got a hold of it. And then plant

589
00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:01,400
Speaker 1: of the blood is what they were try to say. Okay,

590
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 1: look at this case. How do you get two left

591
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:04,920
Speaker 1: shoes in the same bag?

592
00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:07,560
Speaker 4: I mean, I don't mean to laugh.

593
00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:09,440
Speaker 2: Wasn't there pieces?

594
00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:11,400
Speaker 3: It wasn't the number of pieces in one of the

595
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:13,480
Speaker 3: bags not matching up to what the vouche.

596
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:16,000
Speaker 1: Was to Yes, And she even said on the stand,

597
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:17,600
Speaker 1: there's other things in here? Do you want me to

598
00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:20,360
Speaker 1: just put this bag? Well to me, all right, let's

599
00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:23,479
Speaker 1: talk about DNA. How did the DNA get there? Well,

600
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:25,680
Speaker 1: if you've got to touch and other stuff, that's one way.

601
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:30,600
Speaker 1: I mean it's just baffling. You said it earlier, Sarge.

602
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:36,200
Speaker 1: It is abysmal. I have never ever, in forty four

603
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:42,280
Speaker 1: years seen an investigation this pitiful that actually went to

604
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:45,080
Speaker 1: trial once, much less twice.

605
00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:47,520
Speaker 4: The expert on the stand who was analyzing what was

606
00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:52,680
Speaker 4: on Jen McCabe's phone, she was cross examined by Alessi,

607
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:56,800
Speaker 4: and he was kind of backed into a corner and

608
00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:59,840
Speaker 4: agreed that he was right. It was even the facts

609
00:30:59,880 --> 00:31:01,680
Speaker 4: of that we're above my head in terms of the

610
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:05,320
Speaker 4: data that she was analyzing. She turns to the Commonwealth

611
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:09,440
Speaker 4: and says sorry, sorry, like sorry that I couldn't align

612
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:12,000
Speaker 4: with And we all know that experts are paid. We

613
00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:14,040
Speaker 4: know this system and that's how it works, and that's

614
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:17,240
Speaker 4: okay that her analysis can be different than but looking

615
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:21,040
Speaker 4: over and saying sorry, it's one shocking moment after another.

616
00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:23,880
Speaker 1: Here, Sarge, what's the outcome going to be?

617
00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:27,000
Speaker 2: It's gonna I don't think it ended in not guilty.

618
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:28,080
Speaker 2: I think it ended another hung.

619
00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:32,880
Speaker 1: Jury, susan not guilty. I don't see how it couldn't.

620
00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:34,080
Speaker 4: But Sergey might be right.

621
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:37,959
Speaker 1: I'm assarge, they don't have anything. Here's what I would do.

622
00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:40,960
Speaker 1: I'm not a lawyer. But I have worked with some

623
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:43,120
Speaker 1: of the best there is. I would have me a

624
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:45,840
Speaker 1: big old poster board, and I would have on their

625
00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:54,440
Speaker 1: you know, chain of custody, scene secure, separated witnesses, document reports,

626
00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:59,640
Speaker 1: evidence submitted in a timely manner, medical examiner, manner of death.

627
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:03,480
Speaker 1: I would have everything, and they don't have it. They

628
00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:08,040
Speaker 1: don't have it. I would take every written sentence off there,

629
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:09,960
Speaker 1: and at the end of it, I would have a

630
00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:12,080
Speaker 1: blank board. They don't have it.

631
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:15,400
Speaker 4: That's their case, and they have an easy appeal because

632
00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:19,520
Speaker 4: a question I had the jurors, the first jury that

633
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:22,520
Speaker 4: the trial antine and the mistrials you know, came back

634
00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:25,960
Speaker 4: and they voted unanimously no to second degree murder and

635
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:29,320
Speaker 4: the second charge, and they were hung on the third charge.

636
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:32,720
Speaker 4: I believe it was the hicular Manslar. So why are

637
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:37,120
Speaker 4: she being charged for second degree murder again and again?

638
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:40,160
Speaker 1: Ethically? I don't know how you do it. They do

639
00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:43,160
Speaker 1: not have one element of murder, not one.

640
00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:46,400
Speaker 4: Do you trust juris in general?

641
00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:47,000
Speaker 1: I do.

642
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:49,680
Speaker 4: I think that they're intelligent. I feel like they have

643
00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:50,880
Speaker 4: to see what we see.

644
00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:53,040
Speaker 1: That's why I'm holding it to tell you after til

645
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:55,600
Speaker 1: five there should be no doubt in your mind. That

646
00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:58,160
Speaker 1: jury was sophisticated. They own it.

647
00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:01,800
Speaker 4: They were taking notes, but they were sequestered. I'm shocked

648
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:04,600
Speaker 4: that these sures are not sequestered. I truly am considering

649
00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:05,160
Speaker 4: the attention.

650
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:07,680
Speaker 1: Well after the first one, everybody's heard it. They know

651
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:13,000
Speaker 1: that that's true. True. Good point, Sarge, any last comments.

652
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:16,720
Speaker 3: I just hope something good comes out of this in

653
00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:20,560
Speaker 3: regards to better training for the officers and you know,

654
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:23,720
Speaker 3: better supervision and those kind of things, because I don't

655
00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 3: think those in charge in Massachusettstate Police and Canton can

656
00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:31,360
Speaker 3: survive another round with their jobs.

657
00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:32,000
Speaker 2: Intact, these chiefs.

658
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:34,520
Speaker 3: I mean, there needs to be some This needs to

659
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:36,760
Speaker 3: be some sweeping changes as far as I'm concerned.

660
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:38,640
Speaker 1: Amen, Susan.

661
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:41,920
Speaker 4: I'll quote the sisters. They were twins that I interviewed

662
00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:45,040
Speaker 4: outside of the courthouse, and they said, this is justice

663
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:49,360
Speaker 4: for John O'Keefe. Anyone can be Karen Reid, and no

664
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:52,680
Speaker 4: one should be Karen Reid. She has rights, and she

665
00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:55,800
Speaker 4: deserves her rights, and she deserves to have her truth

666
00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:59,360
Speaker 4: be told and believed because the evidence again belief.

667
00:33:59,480 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 1: Take that out.

668
00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:05,320
Speaker 4: The evidence does not show second degree murder intention to

669
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:08,840
Speaker 4: kill John O'Keeffe, and it is heart wrenching and heartbreaking

670
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:11,759
Speaker 4: for that family and those kids that he adopted from

671
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:16,200
Speaker 4: his sister. It's just horrible. But what we've seen thus far,

672
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:19,960
Speaker 4: and I've watched the first trial since I texted Cheryl,

673
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:22,279
Speaker 4: I fell asleep to Higgins on the stand. I mean,

674
00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:26,319
Speaker 4: that's how much I'm watching this. But the jury has

675
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:30,640
Speaker 4: to come together and I have hope in their intelligence

676
00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:33,799
Speaker 4: and decide is their reasonable doubt and what does the

677
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:38,080
Speaker 4: evidence point to? And I believe it's not guilty, y'all.

678
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:43,759
Speaker 1: Check out True Crime with the Sarge Joe jack Alone.

679
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:47,160
Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you, thank you, y'all. Check out headline

680
00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:50,880
Speaker 1: Crime with Susan Hendrix. Susan, thank you so much.

681
00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:53,680
Speaker 4: I wrote down True Crime with the Sarge. I'm checking

682
00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:55,160
Speaker 4: it out. Thanks Cheryl as.

683
00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:58,360
Speaker 2: Always, Thanks Cheryl, Thanks Suir, y'all.

684
00:34:58,400 --> 00:34:59,920
Speaker 1: I'm going to end Zone seven the way that I

685
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:03,799
Speaker 1: I always do with a quote, I hit him, I

686
00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:09,160
Speaker 1: hit him, I hit him unknown. I'm Cheryl McCollum and

687
00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:12,160
Speaker 1: this is Zone seven. How's that for sarcasm?

688
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:17,040
Speaker 2: M