1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,640 Speaker 1: Should I get out of bed? Should I make this decision? 2 00:00:02,880 --> 00:00:05,440 Speaker 1: Should I eat this thing? Should I exercise? All those 3 00:00:05,519 --> 00:00:08,559 Speaker 1: questions become much easier because now our goal is well 4 00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:11,600 Speaker 1: being getting out of bed. It's not about where they're 5 00:00:11,600 --> 00:00:13,920 Speaker 1: getting out of bed makes you happy. If you don't 6 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:16,079 Speaker 1: get out of bed, you're not gonna have a relationship 7 00:00:16,079 --> 00:00:18,280 Speaker 1: with your wife, you're not going to earn money, you're 8 00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:21,520 Speaker 1: not gonna feel safe. Your life doesn't have any meaning. Now. 9 00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:23,160 Speaker 1: Suddenly the decision to get out of bed is much 10 00:00:23,200 --> 00:00:34,080 Speaker 1: much easier because you're not chasing pleasure, You're chasing well being. Hey, everyone, 11 00:00:34,159 --> 00:00:37,360 Speaker 1: welcome back to On Purpose, the number one health podcast 12 00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:40,519 Speaker 1: in the world. Thanks to each and every single one 13 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:43,880 Speaker 1: of you that come back every week to listen, learn 14 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:47,240 Speaker 1: and grow. And I am so excited to be talking 15 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:50,320 Speaker 1: to you today. I don't believe it. My new book 16 00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:54,360 Speaker 1: Eight Rules of Love is out and I cannot wait 17 00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:57,400 Speaker 1: to share it with you. I am so so excited 18 00:00:57,400 --> 00:00:59,360 Speaker 1: for you to read this book, for you to listen 19 00:00:59,400 --> 00:01:01,840 Speaker 1: to this book. I read the audiobook. If you haven't 20 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:04,800 Speaker 1: got it already, make sure you go to eight Rules 21 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:08,680 Speaker 1: of Love dot com. It's dedicated to anyone who's trying 22 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:11,760 Speaker 1: to find, keep or let go of love. So if 23 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:14,920 Speaker 1: you've got friends that are dating, broken up, or struggling 24 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:17,800 Speaker 1: with love, make sure you grab this book. And I'd 25 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:19,800 Speaker 1: love to invite you to come and see me for 26 00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:24,679 Speaker 1: my global tour Love Rules. Go to jsdytour dot com 27 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:29,319 Speaker 1: to learn more information about tickets, VIP experiences, and more. 28 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:31,960 Speaker 1: I can't wait to see you this year. Now you 29 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:34,160 Speaker 1: know that I'm always on the lookout to go and 30 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:39,959 Speaker 1: find the incredible thinkers, thought leaders, authors, writers, storytellers that 31 00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:43,479 Speaker 1: I believe have inspired my life and can inspire yours 32 00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:46,559 Speaker 1: as well. Now, the person I'm going to interview today, 33 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:49,920 Speaker 1: I actually read his book back in twenty thirteen, so 34 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:52,280 Speaker 1: it's been quite a while, but this book had such 35 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:54,840 Speaker 1: a lasting impact on me, and I was just sharing 36 00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:56,880 Speaker 1: with him that the reason I love on purpose in 37 00:01:56,880 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 1: our community is I get the excuse to reach out 38 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:01,640 Speaker 1: to some of the people that I admire and feel 39 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:04,240 Speaker 1: inspired by so that I can help them share their 40 00:02:04,280 --> 00:02:07,520 Speaker 1: work and their story and their insights that I know 41 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:11,520 Speaker 1: will transform your life. Today's guest is none other than 42 00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:15,680 Speaker 1: Charles do Hig, journalist and New York Times best selling author. 43 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:19,760 Speaker 1: He wrote the Power of Habit and Smarter, Faster, Better, 44 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:23,840 Speaker 1: which talk about productivity, habits and the science behind it. 45 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:26,400 Speaker 1: He joined The New York Times as a staff writer 46 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:28,720 Speaker 1: in two thousand and six and was part of the 47 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:32,680 Speaker 1: team that won the twenty thirteen Pulitzer Prize in Explanatory 48 00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:36,840 Speaker 1: Journalism for The Eye Economy, a series that examine the 49 00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:41,000 Speaker 1: global economy through the lens of Apple. Now, today's session 50 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:44,520 Speaker 1: is going to be all about habits, understanding ourselves, improving 51 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:49,919 Speaker 1: our productivity and our effectiveness. Welcome to On Purpose, Charles Dohig. Charles, 52 00:02:49,919 --> 00:02:52,680 Speaker 1: thank you so much for doing this. I'm such a fan. 53 00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:57,080 Speaker 1: Your books are incredibly powerful, and I'm just really grateful 54 00:02:57,080 --> 00:02:59,400 Speaker 1: that we get to have this conversation. Well, thanks for 55 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:02,280 Speaker 1: Hamy Jay. I feel very similarly. I've loved your book 56 00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:05,320 Speaker 1: and loved the show, so really thank you for having 57 00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:08,600 Speaker 1: me on. No. Absolutely, let's let's dive straight in. You know, 58 00:03:08,680 --> 00:03:14,360 Speaker 1: what I'm really fascinated to know is not just about 59 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:17,360 Speaker 1: the incredible work and research you've done, but how you 60 00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:22,200 Speaker 1: became fascinated by it. You've written a lot about productivity, smarter, better, 61 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:26,040 Speaker 1: faster habits. How did you get fascinated with those things 62 00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:29,360 Speaker 1: in the first place, and where was your journey to 63 00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:33,680 Speaker 1: become attracted to human behavior? Well, there is one of 64 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:37,240 Speaker 1: these two experiences. The first one was that, you know, 65 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:38,800 Speaker 1: when I first came up with the idea for the 66 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:41,080 Speaker 1: power of habit and got interested in it, my wife 67 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:43,119 Speaker 1: was about and I were about to have our first kid, 68 00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:46,960 Speaker 1: and I had this this thing that was going on 69 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:49,280 Speaker 1: where I would think to myself, like, you know, at 70 00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:51,240 Speaker 1: that point, I was a reporter with than Your Times 71 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:54,200 Speaker 1: and felt like I was somewhat successful. I had gone 72 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:58,840 Speaker 1: to business school and you know, and I started a company, 73 00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:01,200 Speaker 1: and I thought to myself, if I'm so smart, like, 74 00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:03,480 Speaker 1: why is it so hard for me to go running 75 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:05,240 Speaker 1: in the morning. Because I would always say, like, I'm 76 00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:07,640 Speaker 1: gonna go jogging tomorrow and then not do it right. 77 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:09,920 Speaker 1: And then my son was born, and like you know, 78 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:13,400 Speaker 1: after six or seven months, they start eating this like um, 79 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:16,320 Speaker 1: a little bit older, they start eating these like little 80 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:18,680 Speaker 1: chicken nuggets. And I'd be sitting at the dinner table 81 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:21,320 Speaker 1: with him and and like, without thinking about it, I 82 00:04:21,400 --> 00:04:23,200 Speaker 1: just reach over and grab when of his chicken nuggets 83 00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:25,640 Speaker 1: and eat it, even though I wasn't hungry, right, it 84 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:28,240 Speaker 1: was just like automatic, And so I was trying to 85 00:04:28,279 --> 00:04:30,279 Speaker 1: figure out, like, if I'm so smart, why is it 86 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:32,520 Speaker 1: so hard for me to do the things that I 87 00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:34,200 Speaker 1: want to do? Like why is it so hard to 88 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:37,400 Speaker 1: form the habits that I think aren't healthy for me? 89 00:04:37,839 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 1: And then I also had this experience, which is I'd 90 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 1: been a reporter in Iraq during the war, and I 91 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:47,400 Speaker 1: met this army major who who explained to me that 92 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:49,040 Speaker 1: the way that the military works, and this is true 93 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:51,760 Speaker 1: of all militaries, is that it's basically a giant habit 94 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:54,800 Speaker 1: change machine, right Like like your instinct when you're getting 95 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:57,000 Speaker 1: shot at is to run the other direction, because that's smart. 96 00:04:57,480 --> 00:04:59,800 Speaker 1: But the military teaches you these habits to shoot back 97 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:03,000 Speaker 1: or now, when you're overseas, you can email or call 98 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:05,240 Speaker 1: your spouse every night, And so if they don't teach 99 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:09,240 Speaker 1: you good habit communication habits, you get distracted, and so 100 00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:11,480 Speaker 1: when you're in patrol, you can't do your job as 101 00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:14,719 Speaker 1: well and you're in danger. And he explained to me 102 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:17,480 Speaker 1: that the way that they teach habits is very formulaic. 103 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:20,159 Speaker 1: That they break a habit into these three components and 104 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:22,400 Speaker 1: they teach it how to think about them. And as 105 00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:24,279 Speaker 1: I learned that, I thought to myself, like, there's a 106 00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:26,799 Speaker 1: real science here, and I want to understand that science, 107 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:29,279 Speaker 1: and so I decided to write a book about it 108 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:31,640 Speaker 1: in bart just because it would help me figure it out. 109 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:33,839 Speaker 1: One of the things I find that you said that's 110 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:37,000 Speaker 1: really fascinating, and I'm so glad to ask you that question, 111 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:39,240 Speaker 1: is because when I'm listening to you, I think a 112 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:42,400 Speaker 1: lot of people can empathize with that. You feel like 113 00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:46,839 Speaker 1: you are a small, organized, thoughtful individual. But then you're like, 114 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:48,960 Speaker 1: but why can't I get my life together? Why can't 115 00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:52,760 Speaker 1: I do basic things? And yeah, and we often get 116 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:56,960 Speaker 1: really critical of ourselves and judgmental of ourselves and make 117 00:05:57,000 --> 00:06:00,279 Speaker 1: ourselves feel guilty for not having it to get the 118 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:02,640 Speaker 1: Can you tell us a bit about that, because I 119 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:05,479 Speaker 1: think one of the easiest things to feel right now, 120 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 1: when you were saying those things, I'm sure everyone's listening, going, Charles, 121 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:11,520 Speaker 1: I do the same thing. I say I'm going to 122 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:13,919 Speaker 1: work out tomorrow, and I don't I reach over for 123 00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:18,000 Speaker 1: the cobby, you know, fatty calorie based food instead of 124 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:20,240 Speaker 1: something that I know that's healthy and natural for me. 125 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:22,720 Speaker 1: But then we judge ourselves. Talk to us a bit 126 00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:27,839 Speaker 1: about judgment and guilt and criticism. It's a great question, right, 127 00:06:27,839 --> 00:06:32,880 Speaker 1: because you're exactly right. Our instinct particularly like America, the UK, 128 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:35,719 Speaker 1: all these all these kind of like you know what, 129 00:06:35,839 --> 00:06:40,159 Speaker 1: we consider ourselves to be developed nations. We are massacists. 130 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:43,760 Speaker 1: We love punishing ourselves, right, we have we have lifestyles. 131 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:46,400 Speaker 1: They're designed to push us to work harder and faster. 132 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:49,880 Speaker 1: And to understand why that's damaging you. First of all, 133 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:52,320 Speaker 1: have to understand how habits work. So we think of 134 00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:55,720 Speaker 1: habits is one thing, but every habit is actually three things. Right. 135 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:58,279 Speaker 1: There's a there's a queue, which is like a trigger 136 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:01,160 Speaker 1: for an automatic behavior to start, and then the routine, 137 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:02,960 Speaker 1: which is the behavior itself. That's what we think of 138 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:06,240 Speaker 1: as the habit. And then finally a reward. And there's 139 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:08,400 Speaker 1: a part of your brain known as the basal ganglia 140 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:11,840 Speaker 1: that looks for those rewards and tries to make any 141 00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:15,160 Speaker 1: pattern into a habit. So it'll take ques, routines, and 142 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:18,000 Speaker 1: rewards and put them together in a little chunk. Because 143 00:07:18,040 --> 00:07:20,440 Speaker 1: of that reward, it'll say, I want to make that 144 00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:24,080 Speaker 1: behavior easier and easier and easier. So exercise a great example, right. 145 00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:27,600 Speaker 1: We know from studies that when people have an obvious 146 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:29,800 Speaker 1: que like they put their running shoes next to their 147 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:32,280 Speaker 1: bed so they see them first thing in the morning, 148 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:35,120 Speaker 1: or they plan on meeting their friend at the gym 149 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:38,520 Speaker 1: every Wednesday night that they're more likely to exercise. But 150 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:41,440 Speaker 1: what really makes that exercise into a habit is if 151 00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:44,680 Speaker 1: they give themselves a reward afterwards. So do they give 152 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:47,560 Speaker 1: themselves like a nice long shower, or do they give 153 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:50,400 Speaker 1: themselves like a smoothie? Do they just have a calendar 154 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:52,760 Speaker 1: that they mark off all the times that they've exercised. 155 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:56,400 Speaker 1: Are they rewarding themselves somehow? If you're rewarding yourself somehow 156 00:07:56,680 --> 00:07:59,280 Speaker 1: and you have that que then it becomes easier and 157 00:07:59,320 --> 00:08:02,040 Speaker 1: easier to do the behavior to exercise to make the 158 00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:04,800 Speaker 1: habit become real. But you bring up the fact that 159 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:07,480 Speaker 1: we always like are blaming ourselves, right, We're always feeling guilty. 160 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:10,760 Speaker 1: So think about how most people start exercising. They wake 161 00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:12,520 Speaker 1: up in the morning. They don't have a queue, right, 162 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:15,200 Speaker 1: they have to go search through their closet to find 163 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:18,280 Speaker 1: their running shoes. And then they go out and maybe 164 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:20,200 Speaker 1: they run and they feel like they look really dumb. 165 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:21,960 Speaker 1: They don't know what they're doing. They're not sure what 166 00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:25,640 Speaker 1: rout they're going to take. They think, all run seven blocks, 167 00:08:25,640 --> 00:08:27,920 Speaker 1: and after three blocks they can hardly even breathe, so 168 00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:31,160 Speaker 1: they give up. Then they come home and now now 169 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:33,840 Speaker 1: they're running late, right, So they like jump in the 170 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:35,959 Speaker 1: shower as fast as they can. They like rush the 171 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:37,960 Speaker 1: kids through breakfast, They throw the kids in the car, 172 00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:39,720 Speaker 1: They take the kids to school. The kids are two 173 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:42,040 Speaker 1: minutes later for school. Then they rush to their desk 174 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:44,640 Speaker 1: and they're already ten or fifteen minutes late for their day. 175 00:08:44,840 --> 00:08:47,600 Speaker 1: And they sit down and they've got sweat streaming. In 176 00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:50,800 Speaker 1: other words, all these people who start exercising, they've punished 177 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:55,880 Speaker 1: themselves for exercising, right, And your brain it notices rewards 178 00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:58,720 Speaker 1: and punishments. If your brain notices that when you go 179 00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:01,280 Speaker 1: running in the morning, us of the day is a nightmare, 180 00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:04,680 Speaker 1: your brain says, this is a terrible idea. I don't 181 00:09:04,679 --> 00:09:09,040 Speaker 1: want to make exercise any easier. And so that's what's important, 182 00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:11,040 Speaker 1: is that first of all, knowing how our habits work. 183 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:13,400 Speaker 1: But second of all, to the point that you raised, 184 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:16,360 Speaker 1: when we blame ourselves, when we punish ourselves when we 185 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:19,439 Speaker 1: feel guilty, what we're actually doing is we're making it 186 00:09:19,559 --> 00:09:23,680 Speaker 1: harder to form habits because our brain pays attention to 187 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:26,520 Speaker 1: that negativity. What we need to do is we need 188 00:09:26,559 --> 00:09:28,800 Speaker 1: to find the rewards. We need to allow ourselves to 189 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:33,280 Speaker 1: indulge in the rewards, to enjoy those rewards, because that's 190 00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:35,160 Speaker 1: how your brain will latch onto something and say, I 191 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:37,360 Speaker 1: want to make this easier and easier and easier to 192 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:39,240 Speaker 1: do Chas. This is why I love you, and this 193 00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:41,960 Speaker 1: is why everyone should video book, because everything you say 194 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:48,480 Speaker 1: is just so methodical, relatable, practical. Genuinely, I'm loving this 195 00:09:48,520 --> 00:09:52,520 Speaker 1: conversation already because I can totally understand that anyone who's 196 00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:55,800 Speaker 1: listening or watching right now, they're thinking, Yes, that's exactly 197 00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:58,520 Speaker 1: what I'm doing, that's exactly what I'm going through, that's 198 00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:00,560 Speaker 1: exactly what I'm experiencing. I want to take a bit 199 00:10:00,559 --> 00:10:03,319 Speaker 1: of a quick tangent on this because I like that 200 00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:07,480 Speaker 1: you said that you thought about this before you had kids. 201 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:12,760 Speaker 1: And what's really fascinating to me at least is a 202 00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:16,040 Speaker 1: lot of people don't really start thinking about their habits 203 00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:20,000 Speaker 1: until after they have kids, because up until before that, 204 00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:22,000 Speaker 1: which is kind of living. And maybe you don't need 205 00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:24,079 Speaker 1: to be as disciplined, maybe you don't need to be 206 00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:27,560 Speaker 1: as organized. I don't have children yet, and so I 207 00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:33,080 Speaker 1: live a highly disciplined, high performance, productive, effective lifestyle. And 208 00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:34,600 Speaker 1: what my friends will always say to me is, Jay, 209 00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:36,240 Speaker 1: wait till you have kids, right Like, I hear that 210 00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:40,440 Speaker 1: all the time. And my take is, I don't have kids, 211 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:43,680 Speaker 1: and so I completely understand that I have no wisdom 212 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:46,600 Speaker 1: whatsoever on what it means to be a parent and 213 00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:49,080 Speaker 1: try to live a mindful lifestyle. And I don't claim 214 00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:51,320 Speaker 1: to know anything about that. All I know is that 215 00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:54,000 Speaker 1: I'm trying my best right now to use my time 216 00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:57,400 Speaker 1: really wisely. I wanted to hear from you when you 217 00:10:57,440 --> 00:11:01,280 Speaker 1: started to work on your habits before and after, how 218 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:04,160 Speaker 1: does having children affect that? And which were habits that 219 00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:06,840 Speaker 1: you held onto and that have been useful in which 220 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:08,959 Speaker 1: were habits that you had to be okay with giving up? 221 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:12,480 Speaker 1: Because I think sometimes again, as parents, I hear a 222 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:16,520 Speaker 1: lot of parents judging themselves and saying, oh, I'm not 223 00:11:16,559 --> 00:11:18,800 Speaker 1: doing this, I'm not doing that. But then we forget that, 224 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:21,040 Speaker 1: of course not. You have a whole nother human or 225 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:24,160 Speaker 1: two humans or more to take care of. Walk us 226 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:26,680 Speaker 1: through that a little bit just as a tangent. Well, 227 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:29,319 Speaker 1: I think that there's this axiom which I think is true, 228 00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:31,960 Speaker 1: which is that you know, if you're a good employee 229 00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:34,680 Speaker 1: and then you become a parent, you will never ever 230 00:11:34,840 --> 00:11:38,120 Speaker 1: be a good employee or a good parent at the 231 00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:40,280 Speaker 1: same time for the rest of your life, right, Like, 232 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:43,160 Speaker 1: part of being a parent is getting at peace with 233 00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:45,440 Speaker 1: the fact that that you're not going to be able 234 00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:47,920 Speaker 1: to excel quite as much as you did previously in 235 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:50,120 Speaker 1: every aspect of your life. And much like you, before 236 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:53,480 Speaker 1: I had kids, I just worked NonStop, right. I loved working. 237 00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:56,120 Speaker 1: I loved being a reporter. I loved reporting and writing. 238 00:11:56,640 --> 00:12:00,000 Speaker 1: And then we had kids. And it actually illustrated something 239 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:01,959 Speaker 1: to me that came up a lot in the research, 240 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:04,720 Speaker 1: which is important, which is if I was to ask 241 00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:07,520 Speaker 1: you to give up part of your life right now 242 00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:12,040 Speaker 1: for children, it would see it would seem at best 243 00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:15,640 Speaker 1: neutral and probably negative, right because you don't know the 244 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:17,560 Speaker 1: love that you're going to feel to have about having 245 00:12:17,559 --> 00:12:19,920 Speaker 1: a kid, right You know it intellectually, but you haven't 246 00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:22,319 Speaker 1: felt it yet. You haven't you haven't had that enter 247 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:24,760 Speaker 1: your life. And one of the things we know is 248 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:28,360 Speaker 1: that it is very hard to give up anything, including habits, 249 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:31,800 Speaker 1: when the alternative is a vacuum. In fact, this is 250 00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:34,920 Speaker 1: actually known in the psychology literature as the Golden rule 251 00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:38,960 Speaker 1: of habit change, which says you should not try and 252 00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:42,120 Speaker 1: extinguish habits in your life because the truth of matter 253 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:44,520 Speaker 1: is you can do it for a while, but those 254 00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:47,240 Speaker 1: habits exist in your brain. There are neural pathways of 255 00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:49,640 Speaker 1: that queue, that routine, and that reward that are all 256 00:12:49,679 --> 00:12:51,480 Speaker 1: put together, and it's always going to be there. And 257 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:55,240 Speaker 1: so in a moment of stress or a moment of anxiety, 258 00:12:55,280 --> 00:12:57,959 Speaker 1: you're going to fall back on that habit. What you 259 00:12:57,960 --> 00:13:01,920 Speaker 1: should do instead is change the habit. Find something new 260 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:06,320 Speaker 1: to fill that hole in your life, right, some new 261 00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:09,280 Speaker 1: behavior that corresponds to the old que to deliver something 262 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:12,200 Speaker 1: similar to the old reward. And for me with kids, 263 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:16,040 Speaker 1: what happened was, you know, we had kids, and you're right, Sudding, 264 00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:17,880 Speaker 1: I had to stop working quite so much because if 265 00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:19,880 Speaker 1: nothing else, my wife was like, where are you, Like, 266 00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:22,160 Speaker 1: I need your help, you need to come home. And 267 00:13:22,559 --> 00:13:25,120 Speaker 1: babies are wonderful, but one of the things about them 268 00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:27,960 Speaker 1: is that they're exhausting and kind of boring sometimes, and 269 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:30,319 Speaker 1: so it's hard when you're a new part it's hard 270 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:33,320 Speaker 1: to like give up this old lifestyle you had that 271 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:37,520 Speaker 1: you spent years, years building towards now suddenly you have 272 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:39,600 Speaker 1: to be up at two o'clock in the morning and 273 00:13:39,679 --> 00:13:42,280 Speaker 1: look terrible and smell terrible and never get a shower. 274 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:44,480 Speaker 1: And so one of the things that I realized, I 275 00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:47,240 Speaker 1: think other people realize too, is instead of seeing it 276 00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:49,840 Speaker 1: as giving something up, you have to see it as 277 00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:52,960 Speaker 1: opting for something else. Right. One of the things that 278 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:54,520 Speaker 1: one of the habits that I found and I developed 279 00:13:54,559 --> 00:13:57,560 Speaker 1: once I had kids was the habit of just much 280 00:13:57,600 --> 00:14:01,040 Speaker 1: more being present with my children because I knew that, 281 00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:03,680 Speaker 1: you know, in six months or a year or ten years, 282 00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:06,560 Speaker 1: I'm never going to have this again. I'm never going 283 00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:09,480 Speaker 1: to have my kids sleeping on my stomach, and when 284 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:12,120 Speaker 1: they get older, I'm never going to have them showing 285 00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:14,600 Speaker 1: me their first words that they wrote. And then now 286 00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:17,079 Speaker 1: my kids are thirteen and ten, I'm never going to 287 00:14:17,160 --> 00:14:19,680 Speaker 1: have them, you know, showing me the new clothes that 288 00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:21,960 Speaker 1: they're wearing and asking me, asking me if I think 289 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:27,240 Speaker 1: they look cool. And so this presence, this being present, 290 00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:29,880 Speaker 1: this habit of mindfulness of presence, which I think I 291 00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:33,200 Speaker 1: think you have spent a long time cultivating. That's something 292 00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:34,800 Speaker 1: that's new. I think for a lot of people. It 293 00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:37,440 Speaker 1: is new for me when I had kids, And the 294 00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:39,840 Speaker 1: reason why I was able to embrace that is because 295 00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:44,080 Speaker 1: I was giving up other things in order to have 296 00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:49,440 Speaker 1: something new. I had this change my thinking about abandoning 297 00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:51,400 Speaker 1: all these habits which I loved, which had made me 298 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:55,520 Speaker 1: successful for a vacuum and rather saying, look, I'm not 299 00:14:55,560 --> 00:14:57,600 Speaker 1: going to be able to work until ten o'clock at 300 00:14:57,680 --> 00:14:59,560 Speaker 1: night anymore. Right. I used to be able to sit 301 00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:01,080 Speaker 1: down on my ask at nine in the morning and 302 00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:03,640 Speaker 1: power for thirteen hours. Now I'm going to go home 303 00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:07,040 Speaker 1: at five thirty. But it's not because I'm giving up 304 00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:10,200 Speaker 1: this discipline I had before. It's because I'm opting for 305 00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:13,600 Speaker 1: something else. And that's really important. When people are thinking 306 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:16,040 Speaker 1: about changing their own habits, they need to think about 307 00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:19,240 Speaker 1: not just breaking a bad habit, they think they need 308 00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:23,520 Speaker 1: to think about opting for something new that's better and healthier. Yeah, 309 00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:26,360 Speaker 1: what a brilliant piece of advice. In the spiritual literature 310 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:29,720 Speaker 1: that I studied the English translation, it was referred to 311 00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:32,480 Speaker 1: as the higher taste, and it was the idea that 312 00:15:32,520 --> 00:15:35,400 Speaker 1: you can only give up these lower tastes when you 313 00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:38,360 Speaker 1: have a higher taste, and the idea of lower and 314 00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:42,120 Speaker 1: higher being vibrational and energy based that when you first 315 00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:46,160 Speaker 1: start meditating, it's boring or it doesn't work, or it 316 00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:49,000 Speaker 1: doesn't make you feel happy. But as you developed the 317 00:15:49,080 --> 00:15:52,440 Speaker 1: higher taste, you start to like the vibration and the 318 00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:55,920 Speaker 1: energy that you experience as opposed to this lower distraction. 319 00:15:56,280 --> 00:15:59,040 Speaker 1: And the same applies in a practical way. I remember 320 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:02,800 Speaker 1: when my wife was worried about the amount of sugar 321 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:05,720 Speaker 1: I consumed. So I grew up in a home and 322 00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:09,360 Speaker 1: my community knows this well, where I ate four chocolate 323 00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:12,280 Speaker 1: products a day, a chocolate biscuit, a chocolate bar, a 324 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:15,440 Speaker 1: chocolate yogurt, and a chocolate ice cream. And I ate 325 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:18,280 Speaker 1: that my whole life. And then when I was at university, 326 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:22,240 Speaker 1: I got through university by having a bottle of sprite 327 00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:24,720 Speaker 1: and a chocolate bar every single day. So I'm so 328 00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:27,760 Speaker 1: used to consuming high amounts of sugar. Now I married 329 00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:32,560 Speaker 1: a nutritionist and a dietitian and an iravadic health practitioner. 330 00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:36,480 Speaker 1: So my wife was highly worried about my concerned. I 331 00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:40,040 Speaker 1: would say, not worried, concerned about my amount of sugar intake. 332 00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:42,920 Speaker 1: And so she was constantly trying to remove sugar from 333 00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:45,000 Speaker 1: my life. But I would say to it that I 334 00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:47,960 Speaker 1: was like, but I rely on it for maybe energy, 335 00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:51,640 Speaker 1: or I rely on it for boosting my mood or 336 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:54,400 Speaker 1: performance or whatever it may be. And it took her 337 00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:55,840 Speaker 1: a while, and I said to it, you need to 338 00:16:55,880 --> 00:17:00,400 Speaker 1: help me find a replacement. I need a replacement. Finally 339 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:04,119 Speaker 1: we found it in dates. So dates have become a phenomenal. 340 00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:05,920 Speaker 1: I don't mean dates with her, I mean I mean 341 00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:11,960 Speaker 1: food dates and cacao nibs. So, like cacao raw cacao 342 00:17:12,080 --> 00:17:15,119 Speaker 1: or monk fruit, monk fruit sweetened cacao has become a 343 00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:18,680 Speaker 1: really natural form of sugar that gives me the same 344 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:22,000 Speaker 1: feeling and the same taste and the same comfort without 345 00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:25,240 Speaker 1: a lot of the negative effects on my health that 346 00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:28,920 Speaker 1: sugar has. And so having gone through that very practically 347 00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:31,919 Speaker 1: in an area where I had somewhat of an addiction, 348 00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:35,560 Speaker 1: it's really interesting to see how what you're saying is 349 00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:38,120 Speaker 1: actually played through in my own life as well. Well. 350 00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:40,159 Speaker 1: And I think one of the important aspects of what 351 00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:47,160 Speaker 1: you just said is accepting that sometimes reaching that higher 352 00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:51,360 Speaker 1: taste is a journey that has steps along the way. Right, 353 00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:53,119 Speaker 1: one of the things that we know about habits is 354 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:56,679 Speaker 1: that take exercise as a good example, again, when we 355 00:17:56,760 --> 00:18:01,480 Speaker 1: first start developing a habit, we oftentimes need journal rewards, right, 356 00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:04,880 Speaker 1: so we need that smoothie after we go for a run, 357 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:07,920 Speaker 1: we need the like nice long shower. Very similarly, I 358 00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:09,239 Speaker 1: don't know if this is true for you, but when 359 00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:12,639 Speaker 1: I started meditating, like I would meditate for three minutes 360 00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:14,440 Speaker 1: and I had to give myself a reward, right, I 361 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:17,600 Speaker 1: would use one of the biofeedback bands so that I 362 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:20,520 Speaker 1: could hear the birds chirping in the background, because without it, 363 00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:23,080 Speaker 1: it just it felt dully pointless. I didn't understand why 364 00:18:23,119 --> 00:18:26,080 Speaker 1: I was doing this. It wasn't fun at all to meditate. 365 00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:29,520 Speaker 1: And then over time, what happens is that as your 366 00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:32,720 Speaker 1: brain learns to appreciate the higher taste, as your brain 367 00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:37,399 Speaker 1: learns to appreciate the higher intrinsic rewards, they begin to 368 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:40,200 Speaker 1: crowd out the need for the extrinsic rewards. So again 369 00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:43,520 Speaker 1: with exercise, oftentimes, when people start exercising, they need to 370 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:46,040 Speaker 1: give themselves something. In fact, oftentimes the most effective way 371 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:48,080 Speaker 1: to start exercising is to give yourself a small piece 372 00:18:48,119 --> 00:18:51,240 Speaker 1: of chocolate after you exercise. And then after a week 373 00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:54,000 Speaker 1: or two or a month or two, you start to realize, like, actually, 374 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:56,000 Speaker 1: I just feel good when I exercise. Those, of course, 375 00:18:56,000 --> 00:19:00,280 Speaker 1: are the endorphins and the cannaboids, all these neurotransmits that 376 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:03,639 Speaker 1: are designed to make you feel good. And you start saying, actually, 377 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:06,479 Speaker 1: I'm not even craving the chocolate anymore. I just crave 378 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:10,159 Speaker 1: that feeling of healthiness I get after a run or 379 00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:13,119 Speaker 1: with meditation. I'm sure at some point you and I 380 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:15,960 Speaker 1: definitely I stopped needing these extrinsic rewards. We need to 381 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:18,080 Speaker 1: start needing someone to tell us you did a good 382 00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:21,200 Speaker 1: job because you sat still for ten minutes today. Instead, 383 00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:23,960 Speaker 1: there's a sense of calmness right, the alpha waves that 384 00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:29,200 Speaker 1: make us feel good. And that's important is because oftentimes 385 00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:33,200 Speaker 1: we think that we should be able to reach enlightenment immediately. Right, 386 00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:35,720 Speaker 1: we go for a run, and instead of giving ourselves 387 00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:38,879 Speaker 1: a small piece of chocolate, we give ourselves a kale shake, 388 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:42,280 Speaker 1: because we should be happy with a kale shake. Nobody 389 00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:46,000 Speaker 1: likes a kale shake. Man, Let's not a reward that's like, 390 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:50,000 Speaker 1: that's more do good tourism. But the point is that 391 00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:53,080 Speaker 1: if we are patient with ourselves, if we recognize that 392 00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:55,320 Speaker 1: I need to start with extrinsic rewards, and move to 393 00:19:55,560 --> 00:20:00,600 Speaker 1: intrinsic rewards, we're much more likely to change. So brilliant. 394 00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:02,960 Speaker 1: Thank you. Thank you for that addition and expansion on 395 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:06,159 Speaker 1: the idea. And as you were saying that, I was 396 00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:11,600 Speaker 1: thinking about something that I've discovered more recently, and it's 397 00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:16,880 Speaker 1: this idea around memory and experience. So if I've had 398 00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:19,960 Speaker 1: a really painful start to the day, the one that 399 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:22,959 Speaker 1: you explained, you're you're rushing to get that run in, 400 00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:25,760 Speaker 1: you don't get to reward yourself, you're late for work, 401 00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:29,000 Speaker 1: you're scared that you're going to miss the kid's class 402 00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:32,160 Speaker 1: or you know, an event or recital, and then everything's 403 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:36,479 Speaker 1: doing wrong. That memory stays very strongly with us, like 404 00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:39,960 Speaker 1: negative memories kind of grab a hold onto us and 405 00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:42,240 Speaker 1: you'll be able to explain this better. But when you 406 00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:45,600 Speaker 1: have a good experience, it's almost been like, oh yeah, 407 00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:47,639 Speaker 1: that was good, that was nice, Like we don't we 408 00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:51,160 Speaker 1: don't hold onto It's the same with social media when 409 00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:53,400 Speaker 1: you are scrolling through the comments, you see all these 410 00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:57,800 Speaker 1: beautifully positive comments and you just go, oh, yeah, great, great, great, 411 00:20:57,800 --> 00:20:59,920 Speaker 1: and then you see one negative one and you amplify. 412 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:03,760 Speaker 1: So even in our memory, we retain a negative experience 413 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:07,680 Speaker 1: from working out or eating a healthy meal, far stronger 414 00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:10,679 Speaker 1: than we retain a positive memory. Can you tell us 415 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:13,480 Speaker 1: a bit about that chase that's you're exactly right and steady. 416 00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:16,320 Speaker 1: After study shows that's true, and from an evolutionary perspective, 417 00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:20,560 Speaker 1: you can understand why, right I'm If I'm walking through 418 00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:24,960 Speaker 1: the forest and I hear a noise in the underbrush, 419 00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:27,240 Speaker 1: it's much more important for me to remember that the 420 00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:30,639 Speaker 1: noise in the underbrush is an animal waiting to attack me, 421 00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:34,560 Speaker 1: rather than that noise in the underbrush is something beautiful 422 00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:37,680 Speaker 1: that I want to look at, right for survive. From 423 00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:42,119 Speaker 1: a survival perspective, the people who remember negative memories better 424 00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:45,000 Speaker 1: are going to survive longer, and so therefore they're going 425 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:47,240 Speaker 1: to have more offspring, and that's going to get hardwired 426 00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:50,000 Speaker 1: in our brain. So now the question is, okay, So 427 00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:52,000 Speaker 1: that worked great when I was living in the jungle, 428 00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:54,720 Speaker 1: right when animals might attack me at any given moment, 429 00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:57,439 Speaker 1: But how do I do it now? How do I 430 00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:00,359 Speaker 1: take it because social media, I don't have to remember 431 00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:02,959 Speaker 1: the negative comments on social media? Right, it's not healthy. 432 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:05,280 Speaker 1: It's not going to help me survive. So how do 433 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:07,800 Speaker 1: I change that calculus in my head, given that there's 434 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:11,080 Speaker 1: millions of years of evolution pushing me in the other direction. Well, 435 00:22:11,119 --> 00:22:13,120 Speaker 1: the way that you do it is you push back 436 00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:16,760 Speaker 1: against it by reminding yourself why the positive reward is 437 00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:18,919 Speaker 1: so great. And there's kind of two ways to do this. 438 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:22,160 Speaker 1: The first is simply come up with ways to remind 439 00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:25,360 Speaker 1: yourself to enjoy that positive reward. Right. That's why I say, 440 00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:28,440 Speaker 1: after you go for a shower, don't just after you 441 00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:30,840 Speaker 1: go for a run, after you exercise, don't just take 442 00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:35,800 Speaker 1: a shower. Luxuriate in the shower, right Like, let yourself relax, 443 00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:39,919 Speaker 1: look forward to the shower, use some special smelly soap 444 00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:43,399 Speaker 1: that may makes it feel amazing. But the second thing 445 00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:47,720 Speaker 1: to recognize here is that oftentimes what we're talking about 446 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:50,919 Speaker 1: when we talk about rewards that seem very short lived 447 00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:55,640 Speaker 1: is their transactional rewards as opposed to emotional rewards. One 448 00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:58,040 Speaker 1: of the things that we know is that emotional rewards 449 00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:01,520 Speaker 1: persist longer. They have a greater sense of salience within 450 00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:05,680 Speaker 1: our brains. So very frequently you'll say, okay, I went 451 00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:09,320 Speaker 1: for a you know, I got a big client. I'm 452 00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:12,560 Speaker 1: going to buy myself a new watch. The joy you 453 00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:16,320 Speaker 1: feel from that watch because as a transactional reward is 454 00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:20,919 Speaker 1: much much short lived than the joy of your boss 455 00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:24,440 Speaker 1: telling you, look, man, you're amazing. I'm really proud of you. 456 00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:27,199 Speaker 1: You did an amazing job on that. And so, in 457 00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:29,920 Speaker 1: order to hijack that process you're talking about, in order 458 00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:33,679 Speaker 1: to make positive rewards as powerful as negative rewards, we 459 00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:36,080 Speaker 1: need to not only train ourselves to remember them, we 460 00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:39,359 Speaker 1: need to find positive rewards that have an emotional characteristic, 461 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:42,160 Speaker 1: because that emotion is going to persist in our brain 462 00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:45,680 Speaker 1: much longer. That's also why, for instance, when you bring 463 00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:48,840 Speaker 1: up the negative rewards that you are so easy to remember, 464 00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:52,080 Speaker 1: they're always emotional, right. It's someone calling It's not someone 465 00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:55,000 Speaker 1: saying that your point is a bad point or disagreeing 466 00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:57,920 Speaker 1: with you logically. It's someone saying that you're an idiot, 467 00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:01,119 Speaker 1: or that you look stupid, or making you feel bad. 468 00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:04,400 Speaker 1: So we got to fight fire with fire. Find rewards 469 00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:07,880 Speaker 1: that aren't just material, find rewards that aren't just transactional. 470 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:11,400 Speaker 1: Find rewards that are emotional, and most of those emotions, frankly, 471 00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:14,720 Speaker 1: will come from other people as opposed to things you 472 00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:19,199 Speaker 1: can buy. Yeah, I appreciate you forming that distinction between 473 00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:22,800 Speaker 1: emotional rewards and transactional rewards, because you're so right. It's 474 00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:28,240 Speaker 1: it's so natural to gravitate towards a transactional reward, because 475 00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:31,800 Speaker 1: that's how society has rewarded us too. You get a medal, 476 00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:36,920 Speaker 1: you get a physical depiction of your achievement, you get 477 00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:39,440 Speaker 1: an award, you get a trophy, and so the watch 478 00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:41,800 Speaker 1: becomes a trophy, or the car becomes a trophy, er 479 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:45,359 Speaker 1: house becomes the trophy. But as you said, it was 480 00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:49,480 Speaker 1: the appreciation that you were seeking, or the affection or 481 00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:52,879 Speaker 1: the acknowledgement of what you've done. And it's really interesting 482 00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:54,679 Speaker 1: you say that. So one thing that's really helped me 483 00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:58,080 Speaker 1: is I discovered that the things that are actually good 484 00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:03,600 Speaker 1: for me, they're hard odd before and they're easier afterwards. 485 00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:08,200 Speaker 1: And the things that are generally unhealthy for me feel 486 00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:13,240 Speaker 1: great before and feel terrible afterwards. So, taking your example 487 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:16,080 Speaker 1: of going to the gym, when I wake up, it's 488 00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:19,640 Speaker 1: unlikely that I want to run to the gym. I 489 00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:21,480 Speaker 1: you know, I've become better at it, and I go 490 00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:24,199 Speaker 1: to the gym four or five times a week, but 491 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:26,640 Speaker 1: there's still maybe a morning when I wake up and say, 492 00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:28,320 Speaker 1: I think I need to take it easy today. But 493 00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:31,000 Speaker 1: I push myself to go, and when I leave, I go, 494 00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:33,760 Speaker 1: I'm so happy I went. And I'll come home and 495 00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:36,119 Speaker 1: I'll say to my wife, I'll say, remind me of 496 00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:38,680 Speaker 1: this moment that I told you that I'm so glad 497 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:41,040 Speaker 1: that I went. And every time I tell you in 498 00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:42,480 Speaker 1: the morning that I don't want to go to the gym, 499 00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:44,600 Speaker 1: remind me of this. That when I come home, I'm 500 00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:47,600 Speaker 1: always beaming. I'm full of energy and full of vitality 501 00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:50,520 Speaker 1: and life. Please remind me of this. And it's almost 502 00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:54,600 Speaker 1: like that human reminder from her is all the emotional reward. 503 00:25:54,720 --> 00:26:00,360 Speaker 1: I need to remember that physical emotional tank your boy 504 00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:02,560 Speaker 1: effect that going to the gym has on me or 505 00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:05,360 Speaker 1: eating health, absolutely and it works the other way around too, right, 506 00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:07,359 Speaker 1: Like I go to the when I go to dinner 507 00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:10,960 Speaker 1: with my wife and there's like some creamy pasta dish 508 00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:13,920 Speaker 1: on the menu, and I'm like, oh man, I'm starving, 509 00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:16,199 Speaker 1: Like that looks that sounds so good, And then I 510 00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:18,560 Speaker 1: eat it and I tell my wife, like, next time, 511 00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:21,399 Speaker 1: just remind me I feel terrible after eating this, Like 512 00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:25,760 Speaker 1: I feel so gross. And you're exactly right that And 513 00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:28,600 Speaker 1: in fact, within psychology there's this there's a really interesting 514 00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:33,920 Speaker 1: science known as implementation intensions, which basically says, look at 515 00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:38,080 Speaker 1: the moment when you have to make a decision. Oftentimes 516 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:41,400 Speaker 1: that's the worst time to make a decision because there's 517 00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:43,920 Speaker 1: so much going on inside your head that's gonna nudge 518 00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:46,320 Speaker 1: you one way or the other. Right, if everyone knows this, 519 00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:48,880 Speaker 1: if you go grocery shopping when you're hungry, you're gonna 520 00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:52,119 Speaker 1: buy crazy, crazy things. Right, You're gonna way too much money. 521 00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:55,440 Speaker 1: So everyone has lunch before they go grocery shopping so 522 00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:58,080 Speaker 1: they can make wise choices. And we can apply that 523 00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:00,640 Speaker 1: policy throughout life, Like if you're going to go out 524 00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:03,480 Speaker 1: to dinner, don't decide. Don't wait the last minute to 525 00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:05,240 Speaker 1: decide what you're going to order for dinner because you're 526 00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:08,000 Speaker 1: gonna be starving. Decide in the afternoon, look up the 527 00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:09,919 Speaker 1: menu online so that you know, so that you can 528 00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:12,880 Speaker 1: make the decision when you're not hungry. And those implementation 529 00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:17,119 Speaker 1: intentions saying to yourself, I have an intention to implement 530 00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:20,399 Speaker 1: a decision at a particular moment. I have an intention 531 00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:24,000 Speaker 1: to try and determine ahead of time when I should 532 00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:26,440 Speaker 1: make choices and what I should do when I see 533 00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:30,360 Speaker 1: certain stimuli that is how we gain control over our behavior. 534 00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:33,280 Speaker 1: It's kind of unfair to ask yourself to be a 535 00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:37,320 Speaker 1: saint all the time, particularly when you're surrounded by temptations. 536 00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:41,200 Speaker 1: It's a lot easier to be a saint and decide 537 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:45,000 Speaker 1: to be a saint when the temptations are remove because 538 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:48,880 Speaker 1: then when the temptations come along, you've already made your choice. Yes, yes, 539 00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:52,280 Speaker 1: Soo said. Soo said. I think one of the biggest 540 00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:54,000 Speaker 1: things that affects a lot of people who may be 541 00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:59,359 Speaker 1: listening to this, this idea of well, especially because you 542 00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:04,080 Speaker 1: brought up decision making, Charles, the idea of procrastination and overthinking, 543 00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:08,640 Speaker 1: and that seems to be a huge challenge in our 544 00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:15,520 Speaker 1: society today because the level of information analysis and overload 545 00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:17,680 Speaker 1: that we're dealing with is so high. I read a 546 00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:21,840 Speaker 1: study a few years ago that said, we experience through 547 00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:25,880 Speaker 1: the news social media, we experience more tragedy in twenty 548 00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:29,159 Speaker 1: four hours than we used to in our whole lifetime 549 00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:32,240 Speaker 1: twenty five years ago. And when you think about that, 550 00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:37,320 Speaker 1: you're comparing twenty four hours to a seventy year lifetime. 551 00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:41,200 Speaker 1: That is, you know, I mean, the brain hasn't had 552 00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:44,440 Speaker 1: enough time to catch up and evolve, and so there's 553 00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:47,920 Speaker 1: glitches and there's mistakes, and so that procrastination and overthinking 554 00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:51,080 Speaker 1: again is very normal and understandable. What have you found 555 00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:53,320 Speaker 1: to be some of the best techniques. If someone's listening 556 00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:55,440 Speaker 1: right now and saying, Charles, I agree with you, but 557 00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:58,440 Speaker 1: I just try and put off decisions completely, Like I 558 00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:01,760 Speaker 1: just try and make no decision because that's easier for 559 00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:03,440 Speaker 1: me to not think about it. But then I get 560 00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:06,000 Speaker 1: more scared because I haven't made one, and then I 561 00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:09,600 Speaker 1: get lost in overthinking in the cycle of procrastination. So 562 00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:11,600 Speaker 1: there's been a bunch of research has been done on 563 00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:14,920 Speaker 1: procrastination and overthinking, and some of my favorite research actually 564 00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:20,400 Speaker 1: comes from Dan Arielli, who's a general psychologist, and so 565 00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:23,960 Speaker 1: one of the things that Dan's experiments have shown is 566 00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:28,280 Speaker 1: that when people talk about procrastination, when they talk about overthinking, 567 00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:32,080 Speaker 1: about avoiding making a decision, what they're really talking about 568 00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:35,560 Speaker 1: is they're talking about the first step. Right, once you 569 00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:38,160 Speaker 1: take the first step, it's usually pretty easy. And this 570 00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:41,640 Speaker 1: is true of many many things. Right once you do, 571 00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:44,520 Speaker 1: once you're in the gym, it's pretty easy to work out. 572 00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:47,200 Speaker 1: It's the getting to the gym part that you put 573 00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:50,440 Speaker 1: off again and again and again. Once you've decided that 574 00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:53,880 Speaker 1: you want to go on that vacation, it's pretty easy 575 00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:56,280 Speaker 1: to figure out, like which flight you're going to take. 576 00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:59,480 Speaker 1: It's the decision of going on the vacation, and so 577 00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:02,600 Speaker 1: the court isn't how do I do this entire task? 578 00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:06,040 Speaker 1: The question is actually, how do I make it easier 579 00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:08,920 Speaker 1: for myself to take the first step. And there's basically 580 00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:11,520 Speaker 1: two things that help us with this. The first is 581 00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:16,560 Speaker 1: make that first step as small as humanly possible. Right, 582 00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:19,320 Speaker 1: if you're talking about going to the gym, if you're 583 00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:22,880 Speaker 1: talking about exercising, don't sit down ahead of time and 584 00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:26,280 Speaker 1: figure out what the next three months of workouts are 585 00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:29,080 Speaker 1: going to be like. Instead, make that first step simply 586 00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:32,200 Speaker 1: to say, look, I'm just like, I'm gonna have my 587 00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:34,440 Speaker 1: gym clothes in the car. The first step is literally 588 00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:36,040 Speaker 1: all I have to do is get in the car, 589 00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:38,280 Speaker 1: turn on the ignition, and get out of the driveway. 590 00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:40,440 Speaker 1: Because once I'm out of the driveway, I'm not gonna 591 00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:42,640 Speaker 1: have any place to go except for the gym. So 592 00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:44,840 Speaker 1: let's make it as easy as possible and as small 593 00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:47,440 Speaker 1: as possible to get in the car and literally just 594 00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:51,520 Speaker 1: back out of the driveway. Number two is how do 595 00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:54,520 Speaker 1: I reward myself for that small step. Now, most of 596 00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:55,920 Speaker 1: the time when we think about going to the gym, 597 00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:58,520 Speaker 1: we say like, oh, I'm gonna put off the reward 598 00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:01,040 Speaker 1: until I've done the whole workout, Or if you're really 599 00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:03,520 Speaker 1: a masochist, you're like, look, i'm gonna train for a 600 00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:06,080 Speaker 1: half marathon, which is what I trained for half marathons. 601 00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:07,959 Speaker 1: I'm gonna train for half marathons. I'm gonna put off 602 00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:11,360 Speaker 1: the reward until I run the race twelve weeks from now. 603 00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:13,560 Speaker 1: That's not gonna work. Like, what you need to do 604 00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:16,120 Speaker 1: is you need to get that reward as fast and 605 00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:18,480 Speaker 1: as early in the process as possible, even if it's 606 00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:20,800 Speaker 1: just a small reward. So if it's a matter of 607 00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:23,320 Speaker 1: backing out of the driveway, it can be as small 608 00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:26,479 Speaker 1: as just feeling good about yourself for backing the car 609 00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:29,640 Speaker 1: out of the driveway. You've accomplished what you needed to 610 00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:31,200 Speaker 1: do today. If you get to the gym and you 611 00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:34,880 Speaker 1: work out for four minutes, that's okay, because the entire 612 00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:38,600 Speaker 1: point was just to get to the gym. The question 613 00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:41,120 Speaker 1: people should ask themselves is not how do I make 614 00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:44,640 Speaker 1: procrastination less of a presence in my life. It's how 615 00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:47,240 Speaker 1: do I take a decision that I'm avoiding, make it 616 00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:51,000 Speaker 1: as small as possible, and then reward myself for that 617 00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:54,120 Speaker 1: first step. Because if you can teach yourself to do that, 618 00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:57,520 Speaker 1: everything else is going to take care of itself. That's brilliant. 619 00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:00,440 Speaker 1: And you also talk about positive procrastination, like you talk 620 00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:03,720 Speaker 1: about the idea that sometimes some of our best decisions 621 00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:06,520 Speaker 1: are made when we create a bit of a distance 622 00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:09,640 Speaker 1: and allow ourselves to procrastinate and overthink, which I think 623 00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:13,840 Speaker 1: is such a unique and powerful way to think about 624 00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:16,440 Speaker 1: it because we've been we've been taught to believe that 625 00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:19,400 Speaker 1: people who make their decisions quickly and effectively and now 626 00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:23,920 Speaker 1: are the most smart people. And what you're actually saying is, well, 627 00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:27,480 Speaker 1: no procrastination can be a really healthy, positive thing. And 628 00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:30,280 Speaker 1: I see that in my life sometimes that there are 629 00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:33,560 Speaker 1: some decisions that I allowed to simmer for a month, 630 00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:36,120 Speaker 1: and there are some decisions that I allowed to simmer. 631 00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:38,200 Speaker 1: I just made a decision, a big decision this year. 632 00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:40,240 Speaker 1: I would say I was trying to make that decision 633 00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:43,920 Speaker 1: for four years, and the decision I made this year 634 00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:46,880 Speaker 1: was the best decision I made. But I honestly have 635 00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:49,480 Speaker 1: been thinking about that decision for four years. Now. I 636 00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:51,720 Speaker 1: don't take four years to make every decision like what 637 00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:53,480 Speaker 1: am I going to eat tonight? Or what am I 638 00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:56,800 Speaker 1: going to eat tomorrow? Or but I think some decisions 639 00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:02,520 Speaker 1: demand that level of thought because the reason why I 640 00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:06,440 Speaker 1: took four years is because that is going to impact 641 00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:08,880 Speaker 1: more than the next four years of my life. That's 642 00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:12,640 Speaker 1: why that decision was the decision that you took you 643 00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:15,240 Speaker 1: four years. So the decision that took me four years 644 00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:18,240 Speaker 1: was there was something I was working on, and it 645 00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:21,640 Speaker 1: was either do I do this myself or do I 646 00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:26,000 Speaker 1: partner with someone where I can create something really powerful? 647 00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:28,960 Speaker 1: So it's like do I build it from scratch or 648 00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:31,720 Speaker 1: do I work with someone who's already advanced in that 649 00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:36,240 Speaker 1: area and build onto and expand what they've already done. 650 00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:40,640 Speaker 1: Adam Grant writes about this very eloquently right about positive procrastination, 651 00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:42,880 Speaker 1: and one of the ways I think about it is 652 00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:47,320 Speaker 1: actually to ask yourself, is this rational procrastination? Because you're right, 653 00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:50,120 Speaker 1: we have all kinds of pressures that make us want 654 00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:52,840 Speaker 1: to act quickly. Right, there's actually something known as the 655 00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:56,760 Speaker 1: cognitive need for closure, which is it just feels good 656 00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:58,560 Speaker 1: to make a choice right. It feels good to cross 657 00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:00,760 Speaker 1: something off your to do list. It feels good to 658 00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:02,280 Speaker 1: put it behind you and say, like, I don't got 659 00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:06,160 Speaker 1: to worry about that anymore. But oftentimes there's a very 660 00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:10,120 Speaker 1: rational reason not to make that choice. Sometimes it's just 661 00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:12,479 Speaker 1: you need to sit with it for longer to see 662 00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:16,359 Speaker 1: how you really feel. Sometimes it's that you need more information. 663 00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:20,719 Speaker 1: Sometimes it's that actually making the choice right now would 664 00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:23,560 Speaker 1: screw everything up, because because I know that there's going 665 00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:25,400 Speaker 1: to be other opportunities, I know that there's going to 666 00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:27,839 Speaker 1: be ways to of seeing this in this situation in 667 00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:31,359 Speaker 1: different ways, and if I'm locked into one viewpoint, it's 668 00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:34,239 Speaker 1: gonna be hard for me to see other opportunities. And 669 00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:35,880 Speaker 1: so one of the things that's really important is to 670 00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:38,600 Speaker 1: sit with yourself and say, look, am I hesitating on 671 00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:41,359 Speaker 1: this because I'm scared of making the choice because I'm 672 00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:43,880 Speaker 1: scared of doing the work, Or am I sitting with 673 00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:48,040 Speaker 1: this because it just doesn't feel right yet? And that 674 00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:54,000 Speaker 1: rational procrastination is one of our most powerful instinctual tools 675 00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:59,919 Speaker 1: for knowing without knowing it deliberately or consciously. When it's read, 676 00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:04,880 Speaker 1: when we're ready to make a choice. That's that's really 677 00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:09,600 Speaker 1: really a great extension of what I was thinking about 678 00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:12,400 Speaker 1: in my decision making, and that's clarified a lot for me. 679 00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:14,680 Speaker 1: And one of the things that I've definitely felt is 680 00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:20,439 Speaker 1: really thinking about how much of your life is going 681 00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:23,879 Speaker 1: to be impacted by a decision allows me to know 682 00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:28,279 Speaker 1: how much rational time to give to it. And I think, 683 00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:31,200 Speaker 1: and that's kind of how I've always processed it, Like 684 00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:36,239 Speaker 1: it's like getting married is going to impact your whole life. 685 00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:39,480 Speaker 1: I think this is what we were talking about earlier. 686 00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:45,200 Speaker 1: Having children is a massive life change. But what I 687 00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:47,360 Speaker 1: find fascinating, and this is something that I spend a 688 00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:49,520 Speaker 1: lot of time thinking about in all of these decisions, 689 00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:54,320 Speaker 1: is when you're thinking about choosing to buy a home 690 00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:57,839 Speaker 1: or move city or town, you think about a lot 691 00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:00,520 Speaker 1: of things like what schools are we near and is 692 00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:03,239 Speaker 1: this a good area, and would this be a good investment, 693 00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:06,080 Speaker 1: and is this a smart choice? But sometimes we just 694 00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:09,000 Speaker 1: get married or have kids just by default, like it's 695 00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:13,560 Speaker 1: an autopilot move. And I think that it's really fascinating 696 00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:18,640 Speaker 1: when you take life transitions on autopilot, or what I 697 00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:22,839 Speaker 1: read in psychology was known as sliding versus deciding. We 698 00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:27,040 Speaker 1: slide into decisions rather than actually decide to make them. 699 00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:32,040 Speaker 1: We don't consciously intentionally process those. And when we slide 700 00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:35,160 Speaker 1: into something you're now sliding into like a ballpit of 701 00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:38,040 Speaker 1: like whatever it is, right, there's no practice. Can you 702 00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:40,440 Speaker 1: speak to that a little bit? Chace, absolutely well. And 703 00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:42,319 Speaker 1: I think the other thing that you're you're picking up on, 704 00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:48,120 Speaker 1: which I think is really smart, is our environment influences 705 00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:50,600 Speaker 1: how we make decisions so much in ways that we 706 00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:53,440 Speaker 1: don't often see. Right. In fact, what happens is, and 707 00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:57,400 Speaker 1: this is known in psychology is the fundamental attribution error. 708 00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:00,279 Speaker 1: Is that there is something in our environment which is 709 00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:05,319 Speaker 1: influencing us, but we blame ourselves or other people for something. Right, 710 00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:08,400 Speaker 1: If I happen to sit on the same side of 711 00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:10,879 Speaker 1: the table as someone as opposed to on the other 712 00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:13,160 Speaker 1: side of the table from them, I'm more likely to 713 00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:16,040 Speaker 1: agree with them rather than disagree with them. And I 714 00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:18,880 Speaker 1: think that's because either I agree with them or they're agreeable, 715 00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:21,200 Speaker 1: or I'm agreeable. But actually it just has to do 716 00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:23,799 Speaker 1: with where we sat at the table. That's the thing 717 00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:27,640 Speaker 1: that we fail to recognize. And oftentimes when we're making choices, 718 00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:31,239 Speaker 1: we're not aware of all the environmental influences around us. Right, 719 00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:35,200 Speaker 1: it's not a coincidence that most people get married after 720 00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:38,439 Speaker 1: three of their other friends have gotten married, right, because 721 00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:41,160 Speaker 1: all of a sudden, like marriage is contagious. You see 722 00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:43,640 Speaker 1: Jim and you see Pam get married, and then you're like, well, 723 00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:46,640 Speaker 1: maybe that's okay for me to write same thing happens 724 00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:49,080 Speaker 1: with kids. And so one big question, and this is 725 00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:51,759 Speaker 1: kind of the focus of my second book, Smarter, Faster, Better, 726 00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:54,920 Speaker 1: One big question is how do we build the habits 727 00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:58,680 Speaker 1: that force us to slow down and think more deeply 728 00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:03,040 Speaker 1: about the choices we're making When thinking deeply is hardest, right, 729 00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:06,040 Speaker 1: either because we feel like we're in a panic, or 730 00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:08,520 Speaker 1: we feel like there's a lot of pressure, or there's 731 00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:11,440 Speaker 1: things that are happening around us that are happening very quickly. 732 00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:15,959 Speaker 1: How do we force ourselves to slow down and make 733 00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:20,719 Speaker 1: more deliberate choices in those moments? And the answer is 734 00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:23,320 Speaker 1: you just build habits to do it. More importantly, you 735 00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:26,839 Speaker 1: build what are known as cognitive routines. You build these 736 00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:31,080 Speaker 1: almost like trip wires in your life that force you 737 00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:34,279 Speaker 1: to slow down. So for some people, for instance, this 738 00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:37,359 Speaker 1: can be as simple as saying before I make any 739 00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:40,400 Speaker 1: big choice, I always have to call my spouse and 740 00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:43,560 Speaker 1: talk it through with my spouse. Now, if you're making 741 00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:46,680 Speaker 1: a big choice at work, your spouse doesn't know anything 742 00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:49,439 Speaker 1: about the pros and the cons. Right, your spouse isn't 743 00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:51,960 Speaker 1: going to actually give you any great advice. All your 744 00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:53,600 Speaker 1: spouse is going to We're looking to you, but that 745 00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:55,959 Speaker 1: trip wires saying I don't make any big decisions without 746 00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:59,120 Speaker 1: talking to myselves first. That's to help you slow down, 747 00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:02,800 Speaker 1: for you to explain the pros and cons to your spouse, 748 00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:06,040 Speaker 1: force you to make sure that you're seeing everything from 749 00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:10,480 Speaker 1: every perspective. These trip wires that we build into our lives, 750 00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:13,920 Speaker 1: they are the things that let us think more deeply, 751 00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:19,040 Speaker 1: particularly when thinking is hard, and they are ultimately habits. Yes, 752 00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:22,799 Speaker 1: a reminder I like to share with people is that 753 00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:27,880 Speaker 1: you're not ahead or behind. You're not early or late, 754 00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:33,440 Speaker 1: you're forward or backward. That you're in the right place 755 00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:35,680 Speaker 1: right now where you need to be to slow down 756 00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:38,960 Speaker 1: and make this decision. And when we start making decisions 757 00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:42,960 Speaker 1: based on I'm missing out, they're doing it. We're so 758 00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:47,080 Speaker 1: late and behind. Now all of a sudden, you're completely 759 00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:50,759 Speaker 1: working against what you just said which is finding that 760 00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:56,520 Speaker 1: space and time and silence and stillness to say where 761 00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:58,719 Speaker 1: do I want to move and how do we want 762 00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:01,360 Speaker 1: to move and what decisions do we want to make? 763 00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:04,279 Speaker 1: And I'm I'm so happy with the way you are 764 00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:09,560 Speaker 1: explaining them through science, because I think we hear these affirmations, 765 00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:12,120 Speaker 1: we hear these ideas often, but we don't realize that 766 00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:18,279 Speaker 1: they're actually based in how our brains. Yes, exactly, and 767 00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:20,960 Speaker 1: this is why you know this, this concept of fomo right, 768 00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:24,600 Speaker 1: fear of missing out. Yes, you have to think about 769 00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:28,120 Speaker 1: how do I how do I protect my environment so 770 00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:30,640 Speaker 1: that I know that these forces aren't influencing. And I 771 00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:33,520 Speaker 1: mentioned before that that we the fundamental attribution error is 772 00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:36,080 Speaker 1: that we mistake something in our environment for something that's 773 00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:39,480 Speaker 1: internal to our character. That if we if we take 774 00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:41,040 Speaker 1: that seriously, we have to think about our environment. So, 775 00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:44,480 Speaker 1: for instance, take social media. I don't check social media 776 00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:46,879 Speaker 1: during the day. I allow myself to check it once 777 00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:48,879 Speaker 1: in the morning and then when I get home from 778 00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:51,560 Speaker 1: work and after dinner, then I check it then, But 779 00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:53,440 Speaker 1: the rest of the day I don't. And the reason 780 00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:57,840 Speaker 1: why is because I don't want that influence impacting my brain. 781 00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:00,560 Speaker 1: Like I find that it distracts me. I find that 782 00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:04,560 Speaker 1: it emotionally manipulates me. Right, I see something about Ukraine, 783 00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:06,600 Speaker 1: and then suddenly, for the next fifteen minutes, I can't 784 00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:09,640 Speaker 1: get any work done because I'm obsessing about what happened 785 00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:12,320 Speaker 1: on a battlefield. We're obsessing about it at that moment 786 00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:15,799 Speaker 1: does not make it better, It doesn't change the facts. Right. 787 00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:17,879 Speaker 1: In fact, if I put it off to thinking about 788 00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:19,800 Speaker 1: it that night, maybe I can make a donation that 789 00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:23,920 Speaker 1: actually helps. But thinking about our environment, thinking about how 790 00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:27,239 Speaker 1: we structure our environment so that those influences that we 791 00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:31,160 Speaker 1: know that we're prone to are not present. That's really important. 792 00:41:31,239 --> 00:41:34,040 Speaker 1: But it's something that we don't learn how to do 793 00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:37,120 Speaker 1: as well as we should. Yeah, yeah, so true, so 794 00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:41,000 Speaker 1: beautifully and brilliantly explained. Again, I want to talk about 795 00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:43,600 Speaker 1: your second book a bit because I think the idea 796 00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:47,960 Speaker 1: of productivity is so interesting right now, and productivity gets 797 00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:51,400 Speaker 1: has a good and a bad reputation in different ways. 798 00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:54,920 Speaker 1: So productivity, of course, and we'll dive into it and 799 00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:56,960 Speaker 1: how we can become more productive and how we can 800 00:41:57,000 --> 00:42:00,920 Speaker 1: become more efficient effective. But before we do that, I 801 00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:02,920 Speaker 1: also want to address the idea of a lot of 802 00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:07,120 Speaker 1: people struggle with productivity today because it became so equated 803 00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:11,720 Speaker 1: to our value and worth in life. So the reason 804 00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:14,600 Speaker 1: why some people are questioning whether productivity is a good 805 00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:19,120 Speaker 1: metric of anything is because they say, well, you know, 806 00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:21,880 Speaker 1: I don't want my value or I don't want my 807 00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:25,960 Speaker 1: worth to be based on how productive I feel I am. 808 00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:29,040 Speaker 1: So I just want to address that before we dive 809 00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:31,560 Speaker 1: into it. Now. The caveat to that is I consider 810 00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:34,920 Speaker 1: myself a highly productive person. I consider myself a high performer. 811 00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:37,960 Speaker 1: I had to make a really interesting decision a few 812 00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:42,719 Speaker 1: years back, and I realized something very clearly when I 813 00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:45,960 Speaker 1: don't think I had all the best habits that I 814 00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:49,560 Speaker 1: could potentially have. And the question I asked to myself was, 815 00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:53,000 Speaker 1: I either have to slow down if I want to 816 00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:55,959 Speaker 1: keep doing what I'm doing at a high level, or 817 00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:59,719 Speaker 1: I have to improve my health habits like those are 818 00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:02,120 Speaker 1: my two choices. I was like, if I want to 819 00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:04,080 Speaker 1: keep doing this for a long time and I want 820 00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:06,319 Speaker 1: longevity and I want to serve and I want to 821 00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:08,839 Speaker 1: make an impact, and I want my work for many, 822 00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:13,240 Speaker 1: many decades to support people and serve people and help people, 823 00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:16,600 Speaker 1: then I'm going to need to either slow down because 824 00:43:16,600 --> 00:43:19,040 Speaker 1: otherwise I'll burn out or I need to up my 825 00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:22,120 Speaker 1: health game. And I chose the latter because I was 826 00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:25,759 Speaker 1: fascinated by, well, what can I do to perform at 827 00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:28,680 Speaker 1: a higher level and maintain but still take breaks and manage. 828 00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:32,640 Speaker 1: And I've definitely found that with the methods I've taken, 829 00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:35,080 Speaker 1: where every year will stretch just a little bit and 830 00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:37,000 Speaker 1: a little bit more than next year, and the next 831 00:43:37,080 --> 00:43:40,080 Speaker 1: year you find that your capacity is just I do 832 00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:42,360 Speaker 1: more today than I've ever done in my whole life, 833 00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:46,600 Speaker 1: but I'm more fulfilled and it's beautiful. And then I 834 00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:49,320 Speaker 1: still know when to take breaks. And again, I'm not perfect, 835 00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:50,759 Speaker 1: and I haven't figured it all out, and I still 836 00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:53,239 Speaker 1: get tired, and I still get exhausted, and I still 837 00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:55,080 Speaker 1: have days where I don't want to do stuff. So 838 00:43:55,400 --> 00:43:57,040 Speaker 1: I'm not perfect by any means. And I'm not saying 839 00:43:57,080 --> 00:43:59,399 Speaker 1: I am. I'm just saying that it's been interesting to 840 00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:05,839 Speaker 1: see how having certain positive habits like sleep, diet, exercise, meditation, 841 00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:11,040 Speaker 1: like those four simple habits have expanded and extended my productivity. 842 00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:15,040 Speaker 1: Then my productivity actually feels less and productivity feels harder 843 00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:17,960 Speaker 1: when those four things were not aligned. Again, I don't 844 00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:20,359 Speaker 1: have kids, So I'm not putting I'm not saying any 845 00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:22,640 Speaker 1: of this is like advice. I'm just saying stuff that 846 00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:25,800 Speaker 1: I'm thinking about and working on. So talk to me 847 00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:28,480 Speaker 1: a bit about Charles about this idea of people getting 848 00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:32,080 Speaker 1: scared about their productivity being how much they feel their 849 00:44:32,080 --> 00:44:35,000 Speaker 1: worth and how they value themselves. So I think it's 850 00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:37,040 Speaker 1: a really really good point, and I think you just 851 00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:41,880 Speaker 1: illuminated the distinction here that's really essential, right, which is 852 00:44:42,520 --> 00:44:46,720 Speaker 1: productivity is bad when it's defined by other people for us. 853 00:44:47,239 --> 00:44:50,200 Speaker 1: Right if I said to you, Jay, like, you are 854 00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:54,320 Speaker 1: not productive unless you, you know, make a million dollars 855 00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:58,960 Speaker 1: this year and you run three marathons and you write 856 00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:03,479 Speaker 1: two books, that's not productivity, right, Like, that doesn't feel 857 00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:07,200 Speaker 1: like productivity to you. What productivity really is is knowing 858 00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:11,160 Speaker 1: your goals and being able to achieve them with less 859 00:45:11,239 --> 00:45:15,640 Speaker 1: stress and strife, not making yourself miserable along the way. 860 00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:19,400 Speaker 1: So what's important here is to say I'm going to 861 00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:22,640 Speaker 1: be productive based on the goals that are important to me, 862 00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:25,839 Speaker 1: not the goals that are important to other people, not 863 00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:29,080 Speaker 1: the goals that are important to society. So from an 864 00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:31,640 Speaker 1: outside perspective, I might say, look, Jay, if you're sleeping 865 00:45:31,680 --> 00:45:35,400 Speaker 1: eight hours a night and you're meditating and you're exercising, 866 00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:39,000 Speaker 1: Like that is not productive. Man, Like you could sleep 867 00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:41,680 Speaker 1: six hours a night and that meditation, Like cut that 868 00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:43,680 Speaker 1: down to like just five minutes a day, and you've 869 00:45:43,719 --> 00:45:45,680 Speaker 1: got some extra time to get some work done. Right. 870 00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:49,400 Speaker 1: But what matters is not what I think is productive 871 00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:52,200 Speaker 1: for you. What matters is you being able to think 872 00:45:52,239 --> 00:45:55,440 Speaker 1: about what's productive for you and being able to achieve that. 873 00:45:56,040 --> 00:45:58,600 Speaker 1: So you know that a productive day includes a meditation, 874 00:45:58,719 --> 00:46:02,640 Speaker 1: it includes sleep, includes feeling good about yourself. So the 875 00:46:02,719 --> 00:46:04,440 Speaker 1: first question that we have to do is we have 876 00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:08,120 Speaker 1: to sit down and say, what does productivity mean to 877 00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:11,640 Speaker 1: me based on what I want and acknowledge that might 878 00:46:11,680 --> 00:46:14,440 Speaker 1: be different from day to day and place to place. 879 00:46:14,680 --> 00:46:16,600 Speaker 1: A productive Wednesday might be one where I get the 880 00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:18,560 Speaker 1: kids out the door and I'm at my desk and 881 00:46:18,600 --> 00:46:21,360 Speaker 1: I'm replying to emails, And a productive Friday might be 882 00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:23,840 Speaker 1: one where I walk the kids to school and we 883 00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:25,640 Speaker 1: get to talk to each other and I learn what's 884 00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:28,239 Speaker 1: going on inside their life, and I don't do any 885 00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:31,880 Speaker 1: emails because I spend my time with my kids. The 886 00:46:31,960 --> 00:46:34,759 Speaker 1: point here is that when we look at productivity as 887 00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:38,960 Speaker 1: something that has a static definition, that's when it becomes negative. 888 00:46:38,960 --> 00:46:42,359 Speaker 1: That's when it becomes bad. When we embrace productivity as 889 00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:45,279 Speaker 1: something that is a way for me to decide what 890 00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:47,080 Speaker 1: my goals are and try and figure out how to 891 00:46:47,160 --> 00:46:50,239 Speaker 1: accomplish them, and it's based entirely on what I want 892 00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:53,400 Speaker 1: as oppose what other people want, then it becomes a 893 00:46:53,440 --> 00:46:57,600 Speaker 1: tool for helping me decide how I live the life 894 00:46:57,600 --> 00:47:00,520 Speaker 1: that I want to live. That is is such a 895 00:47:00,520 --> 00:47:03,120 Speaker 1: fantastic way of defining it. And I've actually never heard 896 00:47:03,120 --> 00:47:07,080 Speaker 1: productivity defined as well as that. I actually just I 897 00:47:07,080 --> 00:47:11,800 Speaker 1: think that's brilliant, because you're so right that the decision 898 00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:15,920 Speaker 1: I'm making they made me feel productive and hence I 899 00:47:16,040 --> 00:47:19,719 Speaker 1: choose them as a priority in my life. But you're right, 900 00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:21,600 Speaker 1: I never thought of that. But someone could literally look 901 00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:23,040 Speaker 1: in my life and be like, Jay, you waste a 902 00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:25,120 Speaker 1: lot of time sleep. I do sleep eight hours a night, 903 00:47:26,239 --> 00:47:28,759 Speaker 1: And people could look in my life and be like, wow, Jay, 904 00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:32,200 Speaker 1: you waste a lot of time doing no work, when actually, 905 00:47:32,200 --> 00:47:34,600 Speaker 1: to me, I'm able to do more work and better 906 00:47:34,640 --> 00:47:38,400 Speaker 1: work and deeper work because of the time I spend 907 00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:41,760 Speaker 1: away from work. And as I was saying, I think 908 00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:44,759 Speaker 1: you know one thing that's really interesting to be. Someone 909 00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:47,759 Speaker 1: asked me recently what I thought was the most important 910 00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:50,840 Speaker 1: skill to develop, and I thought about that, and I 911 00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:53,400 Speaker 1: thought about it again, and I really reflected on it, 912 00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:57,239 Speaker 1: and the closest answer I've developed so far at this 913 00:47:57,280 --> 00:48:01,080 Speaker 1: stage in my life is the biggest skill that I've learned, 914 00:48:01,160 --> 00:48:03,320 Speaker 1: or I believe that I've had to try and develop 915 00:48:03,360 --> 00:48:06,680 Speaker 1: and continue to develop, is to do things that are 916 00:48:06,760 --> 00:48:10,520 Speaker 1: good for me even when I don't feel like them. 917 00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:14,239 Speaker 1: And because I think that a lot of what is 918 00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:17,839 Speaker 1: good for you, you won't always feel like doing it. 919 00:48:17,880 --> 00:48:21,680 Speaker 1: In my experience, at least, I don't feel like eating 920 00:48:21,719 --> 00:48:25,880 Speaker 1: healthy all the time. I don't feel like exercising all 921 00:48:25,920 --> 00:48:29,239 Speaker 1: the time. I don't feel like meditating all the time. 922 00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:32,520 Speaker 1: I don't feel like doing something, but I know that 923 00:48:32,560 --> 00:48:36,719 Speaker 1: when I do it, it creates great joy nourishment. And 924 00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:40,120 Speaker 1: me and my friend recently, we're talking about this idea 925 00:48:40,200 --> 00:48:43,560 Speaker 1: of what makes you feel good versus what makes you 926 00:48:43,640 --> 00:48:46,879 Speaker 1: feel nourished, And we were going back and forth about 927 00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:49,400 Speaker 1: the idea of like, feeling good is great, there's nothing 928 00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:52,480 Speaker 1: wrong with it, but when you feel nourished, it's wholesome, 929 00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:55,600 Speaker 1: it's fulfilling, it's so powerful, And we were saying that 930 00:48:55,640 --> 00:48:57,520 Speaker 1: we're trying to make more decisions in our life where 931 00:48:57,520 --> 00:49:00,759 Speaker 1: we feel we're being nourished more than just feeling good 932 00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:03,520 Speaker 1: in the moment, because feeling nourished does make you feel good. 933 00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:06,200 Speaker 1: So I would love to hear your thought process around that, 934 00:49:06,280 --> 00:49:09,000 Speaker 1: because I think what we often look at is people say, well, 935 00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:11,319 Speaker 1: I don't feel motivated to do that, or I don't 936 00:49:11,320 --> 00:49:15,279 Speaker 1: feel inspired to do that. And often I would say 937 00:49:15,320 --> 00:49:17,920 Speaker 1: I don't feel motivated and inspired to do a lot 938 00:49:17,920 --> 00:49:20,799 Speaker 1: of the good stuff that I do. I can't. I 939 00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:22,560 Speaker 1: would be lying if I said I wake up every 940 00:49:22,640 --> 00:49:25,480 Speaker 1: day motivated and inspired to take you know, do what 941 00:49:25,520 --> 00:49:27,880 Speaker 1: I do. I don't. There's plenty of mornings where I 942 00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:30,799 Speaker 1: wake up and I think I don't feel like doing 943 00:49:30,840 --> 00:49:34,640 Speaker 1: anything today. But I know that if I just don't 944 00:49:34,680 --> 00:49:37,799 Speaker 1: do anything today, I'm probably going to feel the same 945 00:49:37,840 --> 00:49:40,720 Speaker 1: way tomorrow and the same way tomorrow, and that actually 946 00:49:40,719 --> 00:49:43,440 Speaker 1: getting myself up out of bed and trying to do 947 00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:47,080 Speaker 1: one thing may actually be better than doing completely nothing. 948 00:49:47,160 --> 00:49:49,000 Speaker 1: So can you walk us through that a little bit. 949 00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:51,000 Speaker 1: I would love to hear your thoughts and your opinions 950 00:49:51,000 --> 00:49:53,200 Speaker 1: about it. I'm just I'm really just what I love 951 00:49:53,200 --> 00:49:56,960 Speaker 1: about this conversation, charge is the way you think. I 952 00:49:57,120 --> 00:49:58,960 Speaker 1: love the way you think, Like it's just I love 953 00:49:59,000 --> 00:50:01,239 Speaker 1: the way you contextually and you break things down and 954 00:50:02,239 --> 00:50:04,480 Speaker 1: the reaseitch you've done. And so I'm just throwing at 955 00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:07,719 Speaker 1: you my thought process and ideas. No, I really appree it. 956 00:50:07,719 --> 00:50:10,600 Speaker 1: And I love hearing how you think and how you 957 00:50:10,600 --> 00:50:13,239 Speaker 1: approach these questions because I think it's really fascinating. Um, 958 00:50:13,600 --> 00:50:14,880 Speaker 1: I mean, I think one of one of the d 959 00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:19,640 Speaker 1: this duality that you're discussing. It reflects what has been 960 00:50:19,920 --> 00:50:25,480 Speaker 1: an oversight in a lot of contemporary society. And and 961 00:50:26,120 --> 00:50:29,080 Speaker 1: this is just because, you know, because psychology is a 962 00:50:29,120 --> 00:50:33,520 Speaker 1: relatively new field and it's it's developed, we became very 963 00:50:33,520 --> 00:50:36,840 Speaker 1: focused on happiness, right as a society, Right, what is 964 00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:40,160 Speaker 1: the highest goal? To feel happy, to feel to feel joyful. 965 00:50:40,719 --> 00:50:43,719 Speaker 1: But the thing that we've learned is that there is 966 00:50:43,760 --> 00:50:50,400 Speaker 1: another emotion, another experience beyond happiness that is actually more meaningful. 967 00:50:51,239 --> 00:50:53,640 Speaker 1: And within psychology they refer to this as a sense 968 00:50:53,680 --> 00:50:56,600 Speaker 1: of well being. Right, So so if I give you 969 00:50:56,640 --> 00:51:00,560 Speaker 1: sugar right now, I can make you happy. If I 970 00:51:00,280 --> 00:51:04,520 Speaker 1: if you're having sex, you will feel happy. But we 971 00:51:04,600 --> 00:51:08,680 Speaker 1: know that just eating sugar like actually, over time it 972 00:51:08,719 --> 00:51:11,799 Speaker 1: feels terrible. That having empty sex is not as great 973 00:51:11,840 --> 00:51:14,480 Speaker 1: as having sex with someone you love. Right, we know this, 974 00:51:14,560 --> 00:51:17,040 Speaker 1: and so the question is, so, if I'm not chasing happiness, 975 00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:19,239 Speaker 1: what am I actually chasing? And for a long time 976 00:51:19,280 --> 00:51:21,880 Speaker 1: we've built all of our psychology models around heat about 977 00:51:21,880 --> 00:51:27,000 Speaker 1: the hadonic individual, right, seeking this pleasure, but a sense 978 00:51:27,040 --> 00:51:30,680 Speaker 1: of well being is actually something that's more profound. It 979 00:51:30,719 --> 00:51:33,080 Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily mean that you are happy, that you are 980 00:51:33,120 --> 00:51:35,799 Speaker 1: feeling pleasure at that particular moment, but it does mean 981 00:51:35,920 --> 00:51:39,040 Speaker 1: some other things. It means that you feel satisfied. It 982 00:51:39,080 --> 00:51:42,760 Speaker 1: means that you feel safe, It means that you feel loved, 983 00:51:42,800 --> 00:51:44,960 Speaker 1: and it means that you feel that your life has meaning. 984 00:51:45,600 --> 00:51:47,480 Speaker 1: And if I can give you those four things, what 985 00:51:47,600 --> 00:51:51,160 Speaker 1: we know is that you actually will feel much better 986 00:51:51,440 --> 00:51:54,279 Speaker 1: than if you just feel pleasure or if you just 987 00:51:54,360 --> 00:51:57,640 Speaker 1: feel happy. I cannot actually be happy over the long 988 00:51:57,760 --> 00:52:00,399 Speaker 1: term without a sense of well being. But I can 989 00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:03,640 Speaker 1: certainly have a sense of well being and not feel 990 00:52:03,680 --> 00:52:06,839 Speaker 1: happy all the time. And that's okay. In fact, we 991 00:52:06,880 --> 00:52:09,839 Speaker 1: know that that's meaningful. Right, The most meaningful thing that's 992 00:52:09,840 --> 00:52:11,440 Speaker 1: happened to me in the last five years is that 993 00:52:11,520 --> 00:52:14,439 Speaker 1: my father passed away. That certainly was not happy in 994 00:52:14,480 --> 00:52:18,440 Speaker 1: any way, but it was deeply meaningful. It was deeply 995 00:52:18,440 --> 00:52:21,720 Speaker 1: contributed to my sense of well being to remind myself 996 00:52:21,719 --> 00:52:23,560 Speaker 1: of my family and my love for him and what 997 00:52:23,640 --> 00:52:27,240 Speaker 1: he gave me. And so if we reorient ourselves away 998 00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:29,920 Speaker 1: from happiness and towards creating a sense of well being, 999 00:52:30,160 --> 00:52:32,760 Speaker 1: then suddenly all those questions you just ask, like should 1000 00:52:32,760 --> 00:52:35,080 Speaker 1: I wake up this morning, should I get out of bed? 1001 00:52:35,280 --> 00:52:37,920 Speaker 1: Should I make this decision? Should I eat this thing? 1002 00:52:37,960 --> 00:52:40,880 Speaker 1: Should I exercise? All those questions become much easier because 1003 00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:44,320 Speaker 1: now our goal is well being right made up again 1004 00:52:44,560 --> 00:52:47,319 Speaker 1: of a sense of safety, a sense of meaning, a 1005 00:52:47,400 --> 00:52:53,120 Speaker 1: sense of satisfaction, a sense of having a community with 1006 00:52:53,160 --> 00:52:56,880 Speaker 1: other people. Those become much easier decisions to make because 1007 00:52:57,160 --> 00:52:59,600 Speaker 1: getting out of bed, it's not about where they're getting 1008 00:52:59,600 --> 00:53:02,600 Speaker 1: out of bed makes you happy. If you don't get 1009 00:53:02,600 --> 00:53:04,640 Speaker 1: out of bed, you're not gonna have a relationship with 1010 00:53:04,680 --> 00:53:06,840 Speaker 1: your wife, you're not going to earn money, you're not 1011 00:53:06,840 --> 00:53:09,360 Speaker 1: gonna feel safe, you're not gonna your life doesn't have 1012 00:53:09,400 --> 00:53:11,799 Speaker 1: any meaning. Now, suddenly the decision to get out of 1013 00:53:11,800 --> 00:53:14,400 Speaker 1: bed is much mouch easier because you're not chasing pleasure. 1014 00:53:14,840 --> 00:53:18,440 Speaker 1: You're chasing well being. So well reframed, especially with the 1015 00:53:18,440 --> 00:53:21,440 Speaker 1: idea of getting up out of bed. If you're seeking 1016 00:53:21,560 --> 00:53:26,480 Speaker 1: pleasure every day, it will feel almost impossible. But that 1017 00:53:26,560 --> 00:53:30,319 Speaker 1: idea of well being is so strong and one of 1018 00:53:30,320 --> 00:53:33,319 Speaker 1: the things that we've mentioned today, but I want to 1019 00:53:33,360 --> 00:53:35,960 Speaker 1: dive into. There's a couple more things. One is this 1020 00:53:36,040 --> 00:53:41,880 Speaker 1: idea of we try to have what I call we 1021 00:53:42,000 --> 00:53:48,279 Speaker 1: try to have long term feelings about something based on 1022 00:53:49,080 --> 00:53:54,000 Speaker 1: short term experiences. So we will say something like I 1023 00:53:54,120 --> 00:53:58,879 Speaker 1: will never ever miss going to the gym ever again. Right, 1024 00:53:59,480 --> 00:54:04,400 Speaker 1: I will never ever eat something unhealthy ever again. Like 1025 00:54:04,480 --> 00:54:11,080 Speaker 1: we make these really big broad statements. And the truth is, 1026 00:54:11,800 --> 00:54:13,400 Speaker 1: and this happened to me last week. So I was 1027 00:54:13,440 --> 00:54:16,319 Speaker 1: having a really healthy week. I was traveling, and I've 1028 00:54:16,360 --> 00:54:18,720 Speaker 1: been really trying to master the art of living healthy 1029 00:54:18,760 --> 00:54:21,279 Speaker 1: when I travel, because it's really easy when I'm back 1030 00:54:21,320 --> 00:54:24,040 Speaker 1: at home. But last week I give three keynotes in 1031 00:54:24,080 --> 00:54:27,080 Speaker 1: three different states. I was on a plane every day 1032 00:54:27,080 --> 00:54:32,600 Speaker 1: every other day, and I was really trying last week 1033 00:54:32,640 --> 00:54:35,239 Speaker 1: to be conscious because I've been really working on my health, 1034 00:54:35,719 --> 00:54:37,400 Speaker 1: and so I was thinking, Okay, I need to eat healthy, 1035 00:54:37,480 --> 00:54:39,239 Speaker 1: and so I was researching at where I could eat 1036 00:54:39,239 --> 00:54:40,680 Speaker 1: and plan and all this kind of stuff, and it 1037 00:54:40,719 --> 00:54:45,719 Speaker 1: went great from Monday to Friday. Now, on Friday, I 1038 00:54:47,120 --> 00:54:50,719 Speaker 1: my flight was delayed by two hours, and then when 1039 00:54:50,760 --> 00:54:52,960 Speaker 1: we got on the flight, we were about to take off, 1040 00:54:53,520 --> 00:54:55,479 Speaker 1: but then they brought us back to the gate because 1041 00:54:55,520 --> 00:54:57,680 Speaker 1: they said there was something wrong with the cabin pressure. 1042 00:54:58,000 --> 00:55:01,080 Speaker 1: We then waited another two hour is in the plane 1043 00:55:01,920 --> 00:55:03,239 Speaker 1: and then they said, all right, we're going to take 1044 00:55:03,239 --> 00:55:05,880 Speaker 1: off again. We were about to take off and then 1045 00:55:05,920 --> 00:55:07,640 Speaker 1: they said no, no, no, the cabin pressure is still 1046 00:55:07,640 --> 00:55:09,080 Speaker 1: an issue. So we went back to the gate and 1047 00:55:09,120 --> 00:55:12,440 Speaker 1: waited another two hours. So now we had been six 1048 00:55:12,520 --> 00:55:17,600 Speaker 1: hours in total, and I'm sitting there and now we 1049 00:55:17,680 --> 00:55:21,200 Speaker 1: get two hours later, they take us off the plane 1050 00:55:21,200 --> 00:55:23,880 Speaker 1: because they can't fix it, and then it takes another 1051 00:55:23,920 --> 00:55:26,200 Speaker 1: two hours for them to onboard us to another flight. 1052 00:55:26,239 --> 00:55:28,680 Speaker 1: So it's been around ten hours at this point. I've 1053 00:55:28,680 --> 00:55:31,680 Speaker 1: now missed my next three connecting flights. Now when we 1054 00:55:31,680 --> 00:55:34,279 Speaker 1: go back into the terminal for those two hours, I 1055 00:55:34,520 --> 00:55:38,600 Speaker 1: go and buy sour patch kids a bag of chips. 1056 00:55:39,040 --> 00:55:43,640 Speaker 1: Like every single thing at this point that I've been 1057 00:55:43,640 --> 00:55:46,120 Speaker 1: trying to avoid, the whole week and I eat my 1058 00:55:46,280 --> 00:55:49,239 Speaker 1: bag of sour Patch Kids very happily. I eat my 1059 00:55:49,480 --> 00:55:51,880 Speaker 1: like you know, bag of chips. I'm about to go 1060 00:55:51,920 --> 00:55:54,480 Speaker 1: and buy myself a burger and fries as well at 1061 00:55:54,560 --> 00:55:58,560 Speaker 1: the airport, and I do and I loved it. It 1062 00:55:58,640 --> 00:56:01,440 Speaker 1: was great, Like I wasn't wasn't sad about anything. I 1063 00:56:01,480 --> 00:56:02,839 Speaker 1: was like, this is great, Like this is what I 1064 00:56:02,880 --> 00:56:05,640 Speaker 1: needed to deal with the last ten twelve hours. And 1065 00:56:05,719 --> 00:56:08,120 Speaker 1: I feel lucky, and I feel lucky and privileged enough 1066 00:56:08,160 --> 00:56:11,279 Speaker 1: that I could eat right like because there's that was 1067 00:56:11,320 --> 00:56:14,359 Speaker 1: a privilege in it of itself. Now here's the thing. 1068 00:56:14,920 --> 00:56:18,360 Speaker 1: If I had said to myself, Jay, you can never 1069 00:56:18,400 --> 00:56:21,400 Speaker 1: ever eat sour Patch Kids ever again in your life, 1070 00:56:21,960 --> 00:56:26,120 Speaker 1: and then that happens, I feel like such a failure. 1071 00:56:26,280 --> 00:56:28,439 Speaker 1: And I did that to myself for a long time, 1072 00:56:28,480 --> 00:56:31,360 Speaker 1: where I made these big, bold statements and then I 1073 00:56:31,360 --> 00:56:35,520 Speaker 1: felt like a failure again and again and again. So 1074 00:56:36,440 --> 00:56:41,160 Speaker 1: how do we plan for failure? Because it is actually 1075 00:56:41,200 --> 00:56:45,359 Speaker 1: more inevitable than it is avoidable. I don't think there's 1076 00:56:45,400 --> 00:56:48,200 Speaker 1: anyone who's ever set of resolution, set a new plan, 1077 00:56:48,440 --> 00:56:51,560 Speaker 1: set a new schedule, that has ever kept to it 1078 00:56:51,640 --> 00:56:55,040 Speaker 1: word for word. Yet we still hope and we pray, 1079 00:56:55,480 --> 00:56:58,319 Speaker 1: and we assume that we are going to stick to 1080 00:56:58,440 --> 00:57:01,160 Speaker 1: our plan exactly as it is. And I don't. I 1081 00:57:01,160 --> 00:57:03,560 Speaker 1: don't even think the most disciplined people in the world 1082 00:57:03,640 --> 00:57:11,239 Speaker 1: do that. Right, How do we accept that we will 1083 00:57:11,320 --> 00:57:15,080 Speaker 1: inevitably fail? And that's okay, and that's part of the journey. 1084 00:57:15,120 --> 00:57:18,320 Speaker 1: So this is another This is another question that comes 1085 00:57:18,400 --> 00:57:21,760 Speaker 1: from how our brain evolved and how it's working in 1086 00:57:21,800 --> 00:57:27,320 Speaker 1: today's world. Right, we tend to remember things episodically. Right, 1087 00:57:27,320 --> 00:57:31,120 Speaker 1: So if I ask you, Jay, who are you? You 1088 00:57:31,120 --> 00:57:33,880 Speaker 1: would answer this by telling me three or four big 1089 00:57:33,960 --> 00:57:37,840 Speaker 1: values that you live your life by. If I tell you, 1090 00:57:37,880 --> 00:57:40,360 Speaker 1: if I ask you tell me about your wife, You're 1091 00:57:40,360 --> 00:57:42,640 Speaker 1: gonna tell me what her job is, or you're gonna 1092 00:57:42,640 --> 00:57:44,880 Speaker 1: tell me about the time you met, or you're gonna 1093 00:57:44,880 --> 00:57:47,919 Speaker 1: tell me about what your wedding was like. We tend 1094 00:57:47,960 --> 00:57:51,920 Speaker 1: to remember things and describe things in terms of stories. 1095 00:57:52,160 --> 00:57:55,560 Speaker 1: And because stories always have pivot points, right, there's a 1096 00:57:55,600 --> 00:57:58,600 Speaker 1: beginning to middle, in an end, there's a blot, twists, 1097 00:57:58,640 --> 00:58:02,720 Speaker 1: there's a character, and that's great. That helps us remember things. 1098 00:58:03,760 --> 00:58:07,000 Speaker 1: But we don't live stories. We live day to day. 1099 00:58:07,520 --> 00:58:10,440 Speaker 1: We live waking up in ninety percent of our time 1100 00:58:10,520 --> 00:58:13,560 Speaker 1: is spent taking a shower and going to the office 1101 00:58:13,600 --> 00:58:16,040 Speaker 1: and doing these things that we don't really remember at 1102 00:58:16,080 --> 00:58:18,840 Speaker 1: all because we don't have to remember them, because again, 1103 00:58:19,040 --> 00:58:22,080 Speaker 1: in a state of nature, when the boar is charging 1104 00:58:22,120 --> 00:58:25,440 Speaker 1: at you, it's a lot more important to remember what 1105 00:58:25,600 --> 00:58:28,280 Speaker 1: the path looks like where the boar lives than to 1106 00:58:28,360 --> 00:58:32,480 Speaker 1: remember all the paths where bores don't live. So, as 1107 00:58:32,520 --> 00:58:36,040 Speaker 1: a result, because we think this way, because we think 1108 00:58:36,040 --> 00:58:39,280 Speaker 1: of stories, we need to recognize that we need to say, 1109 00:58:39,360 --> 00:58:43,640 Speaker 1: like my instinct is to say these grand things, to 1110 00:58:43,720 --> 00:58:47,320 Speaker 1: say I'm never going to eat again. I run half marathons, 1111 00:58:47,360 --> 00:58:50,200 Speaker 1: I work out three times a week because that's a 1112 00:58:50,240 --> 00:58:53,000 Speaker 1: story I can tell myself that helps me remember who 1113 00:58:53,000 --> 00:58:57,040 Speaker 1: I am. But the way I actually live is day 1114 00:58:57,040 --> 00:58:59,440 Speaker 1: to day and minute to minute, and sometimes I get 1115 00:58:59,440 --> 00:59:02,040 Speaker 1: off track from that story. And that doesn't mean that 1116 00:59:02,040 --> 00:59:04,440 Speaker 1: that story isn't true. That doesn't mean that that story 1117 00:59:04,440 --> 00:59:07,040 Speaker 1: doesn't work anymore, That doesn't mean that I've changed. It 1118 00:59:07,080 --> 00:59:10,600 Speaker 1: just means that the story of my life is much 1119 00:59:10,640 --> 00:59:14,360 Speaker 1: bigger than the story I tell myself and others. And 1120 00:59:14,480 --> 00:59:18,720 Speaker 1: once we acknowledge that, once we accept that, it's enormously empowering. Right. 1121 00:59:18,840 --> 00:59:22,360 Speaker 1: If you go back to Aristotle, Arisotle once said excellent 1122 00:59:22,720 --> 00:59:26,480 Speaker 1: that our habits are our lives. What we do every 1123 00:59:26,600 --> 00:59:30,320 Speaker 1: day is how we ought to be judged. So excellence, then, 1124 00:59:30,840 --> 00:59:35,160 Speaker 1: is not an act. Excellence is a habit. And this 1125 00:59:35,240 --> 00:59:38,040 Speaker 1: is important because what he was saying is one moment 1126 00:59:38,080 --> 00:59:41,720 Speaker 1: of bravery, one great decision. That's the thing that we're 1127 00:59:41,720 --> 00:59:44,320 Speaker 1: going to write in the histories. That's the thing that 1128 00:59:44,320 --> 00:59:48,280 Speaker 1: we're going to remember. But that is not excellence. Excellence 1129 00:59:48,520 --> 00:59:51,800 Speaker 1: is more often than not, waking up in the morning 1130 00:59:51,800 --> 00:59:54,200 Speaker 1: and doing the right thing. And that doesn't mean that 1131 00:59:54,200 --> 00:59:56,720 Speaker 1: you do the right thing every single morning. It just 1132 00:59:56,760 --> 01:00:00,360 Speaker 1: means that for four days you resist the Sour Patch kids, 1133 01:00:00,880 --> 01:00:02,680 Speaker 1: and in fact, on the fifth day you probably would 1134 01:00:02,680 --> 01:00:04,800 Speaker 1: have resisted as Sara Patch kids until you have to 1135 01:00:04,800 --> 01:00:07,600 Speaker 1: spend ten hours in an airplane in an airport, at 1136 01:00:07,600 --> 01:00:10,439 Speaker 1: which point it's just fine to have some Sour Patch 1137 01:00:10,560 --> 01:00:13,280 Speaker 1: kids and not have to say to yourself, by the way, 1138 01:00:13,280 --> 01:00:15,840 Speaker 1: I'm a bad person. Now whole my whole story in 1139 01:00:15,880 --> 01:00:18,560 Speaker 1: my head about who I am has just been exploded. No, 1140 01:00:18,680 --> 01:00:21,560 Speaker 1: it's just one moment. What matters is what we do 1141 01:00:21,880 --> 01:00:26,560 Speaker 1: on average every day. That's how we should judge ourselves. Yes, yes, 1142 01:00:26,640 --> 01:00:28,680 Speaker 1: thank you for giving me the permission to eat Sauer 1143 01:00:28,760 --> 01:00:33,280 Speaker 1: Pats kids whenever I like. But no, it's it's so 1144 01:00:34,360 --> 01:00:37,600 Speaker 1: useful to hear you walk us through that as an 1145 01:00:37,640 --> 01:00:39,640 Speaker 1: exercise almost in our head. And I think a lot 1146 01:00:39,680 --> 01:00:44,480 Speaker 1: of what you've shared with us today is really exercises, reflections, questions. 1147 01:00:44,480 --> 01:00:46,840 Speaker 1: I hope everyone's making notes as you're listening and watching, 1148 01:00:46,840 --> 01:00:48,920 Speaker 1: and if you're not, this is definitely one of those 1149 01:00:48,960 --> 01:00:53,400 Speaker 1: episodes to go back through, because you know, I've asked 1150 01:00:53,480 --> 01:00:56,080 Speaker 1: Charles questions not based on you know, it would have 1151 01:00:56,080 --> 01:00:58,440 Speaker 1: been easy for me to ask Charles, how do you 1152 01:00:58,480 --> 01:01:00,640 Speaker 1: create good habits and how do you end bad habits? 1153 01:01:00,640 --> 01:01:02,600 Speaker 1: And I think we've talked about all those things in 1154 01:01:02,960 --> 01:01:05,000 Speaker 1: hopefully for all of you who are listening and watching, 1155 01:01:05,040 --> 01:01:09,440 Speaker 1: really interesting personal practical ways so that you can actually 1156 01:01:09,440 --> 01:01:14,440 Speaker 1: apply it to reality rather than a set of two dus. Now, 1157 01:01:14,440 --> 01:01:16,520 Speaker 1: I do want to talk to you about to do list? Charles, 1158 01:01:16,520 --> 01:01:19,640 Speaker 1: do you believe that to do lists work? What's the 1159 01:01:19,680 --> 01:01:23,600 Speaker 1: best way to structure our day to actually feel like 1160 01:01:23,640 --> 01:01:27,560 Speaker 1: we're creating momentum and movement? And I think that's the difference. 1161 01:01:27,800 --> 01:01:31,280 Speaker 1: I look at each day and each week, not by 1162 01:01:31,320 --> 01:01:33,960 Speaker 1: how much I achieved, but by how much I moved 1163 01:01:34,040 --> 01:01:37,160 Speaker 1: the needle right, Like, it's how much momentum have I gathered? 1164 01:01:37,640 --> 01:01:40,840 Speaker 1: Is more interesting to me than how much have I done? 1165 01:01:41,120 --> 01:01:44,440 Speaker 1: Because I think sometimes some things take four years to 1166 01:01:44,480 --> 01:01:47,480 Speaker 1: get done, and sometimes things take four months, and sometimes 1167 01:01:47,480 --> 01:01:50,040 Speaker 1: things take four days or four hours. But if every 1168 01:01:50,080 --> 01:01:51,840 Speaker 1: day I asked us if what did I do today? 1169 01:01:52,280 --> 01:01:54,680 Speaker 1: Sometimes I can feel, so how do we use to 1170 01:01:54,720 --> 01:01:57,840 Speaker 1: do lists effectively? Because we all have things to do? 1171 01:01:58,160 --> 01:02:00,920 Speaker 1: I love the metaphor you just brought up about momentum, 1172 01:02:00,920 --> 01:02:02,960 Speaker 1: because I think it's really important. One of the ways 1173 01:02:03,000 --> 01:02:05,720 Speaker 1: I think about it is an analogy someone who's used 1174 01:02:06,200 --> 01:02:08,720 Speaker 1: with me. They said, like, look, think of your life 1175 01:02:08,760 --> 01:02:12,360 Speaker 1: as a series of pole vaults. Right, the faster and 1176 01:02:12,480 --> 01:02:15,160 Speaker 1: longer you run, the higher you're going to be able 1177 01:02:15,160 --> 01:02:18,880 Speaker 1: to vault over that pole. But if you look at 1178 01:02:18,920 --> 01:02:22,520 Speaker 1: the actual event, that person could be running for three 1179 01:02:22,560 --> 01:02:26,560 Speaker 1: minutes before they spend ten seconds flying into the air, 1180 01:02:27,040 --> 01:02:28,880 Speaker 1: and so at any point along there you could say, 1181 01:02:28,920 --> 01:02:30,680 Speaker 1: why the heck are you running so long? Like this 1182 01:02:30,720 --> 01:02:32,840 Speaker 1: doesn't seem like it's a good use of time. But 1183 01:02:33,360 --> 01:02:35,040 Speaker 1: if you think about your life in terms of these 1184 01:02:35,040 --> 01:02:37,240 Speaker 1: pole vaults. So to do list is a great question, 1185 01:02:37,360 --> 01:02:39,920 Speaker 1: and I'm curious how you organize your day. This is 1186 01:02:39,920 --> 01:02:42,560 Speaker 1: what we know about to do lists. We use this 1187 01:02:42,600 --> 01:02:46,160 Speaker 1: word to do list sometimes incorrectly. There are things which 1188 01:02:46,200 --> 01:02:49,560 Speaker 1: are memory lists, and those are great. Right, your brain 1189 01:02:49,760 --> 01:02:53,360 Speaker 1: is a terrible place to try and remember the thirty 1190 01:02:53,400 --> 01:02:55,480 Speaker 1: things that you want to get done in the next 1191 01:02:55,480 --> 01:02:57,840 Speaker 1: twelve months. You're going to forget some of them. So 1192 01:02:57,880 --> 01:02:59,360 Speaker 1: what you should do is you should have a pad 1193 01:02:59,360 --> 01:03:01,160 Speaker 1: of paper and as soon as you think of something 1194 01:03:01,160 --> 01:03:02,920 Speaker 1: you might want to get done, you should write it 1195 01:03:02,960 --> 01:03:06,200 Speaker 1: down on that list. But that's a memory list. That's 1196 01:03:06,200 --> 01:03:09,400 Speaker 1: not a to do list. That's a memory list to 1197 01:03:09,560 --> 01:03:12,800 Speaker 1: remind you of things that in the past seem important 1198 01:03:12,800 --> 01:03:16,240 Speaker 1: to you. A to do list should be much different. 1199 01:03:16,640 --> 01:03:18,640 Speaker 1: A to do list should be something that you write 1200 01:03:18,680 --> 01:03:21,600 Speaker 1: every morning or every night before that you leave work, 1201 01:03:21,600 --> 01:03:22,880 Speaker 1: which is when I do it, I sit down. The 1202 01:03:22,920 --> 01:03:24,480 Speaker 1: last thing I do every day is I write on 1203 01:03:25,040 --> 01:03:27,240 Speaker 1: an index card what my to do list is for 1204 01:03:27,280 --> 01:03:31,160 Speaker 1: the next day. And that to do list, optimally, should 1205 01:03:31,160 --> 01:03:34,960 Speaker 1: only contain like one thing, the most important thing that 1206 01:03:35,000 --> 01:03:37,360 Speaker 1: you can get done tomorrow, the thing that if you 1207 01:03:37,520 --> 01:03:40,680 Speaker 1: do it, it will move that needle. It will change 1208 01:03:40,720 --> 01:03:43,680 Speaker 1: your life in a better way. Now, sometimes you can 1209 01:03:43,720 --> 01:03:45,760 Speaker 1: get that thing done. So oftentimes what I'll do is 1210 01:03:45,760 --> 01:03:48,200 Speaker 1: I write down three things. This is kind of crazy, right. 1211 01:03:48,320 --> 01:03:50,560 Speaker 1: I write down the thing I want to get done tomorrow. 1212 01:03:50,720 --> 01:03:53,280 Speaker 1: If I get that thing done, the second thing I 1213 01:03:53,320 --> 01:03:56,440 Speaker 1: want to get done, and then I sometimes will guess 1214 01:03:56,720 --> 01:03:59,439 Speaker 1: what ought to be my top priority for the next day. 1215 01:04:00,040 --> 01:04:02,360 Speaker 1: Sometimes I'm right and sometimes I'm wrong, But it most 1216 01:04:02,440 --> 01:04:04,560 Speaker 1: my to do list has three things on it. And 1217 01:04:04,640 --> 01:04:06,920 Speaker 1: what's really clear is I'm not looking at two and 1218 01:04:07,000 --> 01:04:11,200 Speaker 1: three until number one is done. Now. Of course, every 1219 01:04:11,240 --> 01:04:13,160 Speaker 1: day is filled with more than one thing, right, So 1220 01:04:13,240 --> 01:04:15,680 Speaker 1: I also have a calendar where I have these meetings 1221 01:04:15,680 --> 01:04:17,040 Speaker 1: I have to go to, and I have these phone 1222 01:04:17,080 --> 01:04:19,360 Speaker 1: calls I have to make. And sometimes the path to 1223 01:04:19,440 --> 01:04:23,240 Speaker 1: getting that one thing done involves ten or twelve different steps, 1224 01:04:23,240 --> 01:04:25,560 Speaker 1: and I might jot down those steps just to remind 1225 01:04:25,560 --> 01:04:28,360 Speaker 1: me what they are. But the point is that whenever 1226 01:04:28,400 --> 01:04:30,640 Speaker 1: I look at that index card, I am reminding myself 1227 01:04:31,000 --> 01:04:33,320 Speaker 1: there is one thing that if I get it done today, 1228 01:04:33,640 --> 01:04:38,040 Speaker 1: it will change the trajectory, It will make my life better. 1229 01:04:38,680 --> 01:04:41,959 Speaker 1: It is so easy to continue putting that thing off 1230 01:04:42,120 --> 01:04:45,320 Speaker 1: to put off writing that memo that you're scared of, 1231 01:04:45,360 --> 01:04:47,000 Speaker 1: But once you write it, you're going to know what 1232 01:04:47,080 --> 01:04:49,560 Speaker 1: to do next. To put off having that tough phone call, 1233 01:04:49,760 --> 01:04:52,919 Speaker 1: to put off doing your taxes, to put off doing 1234 01:04:52,960 --> 01:04:56,080 Speaker 1: something that matters. And if you put it at the 1235 01:04:56,120 --> 01:04:57,760 Speaker 1: top of the list, and that's your to do list, 1236 01:04:57,840 --> 01:05:00,720 Speaker 1: not the memory list, but the to do list, then 1237 01:05:00,720 --> 01:05:02,920 Speaker 1: you're going to do the most important things. Because everyone 1238 01:05:02,920 --> 01:05:05,880 Speaker 1: only has twenty four hours, right, and some people get 1239 01:05:06,160 --> 01:05:09,760 Speaker 1: amazing things done and some people don't. The difference is 1240 01:05:09,840 --> 01:05:13,840 Speaker 1: not how many more hours they have or how many 1241 01:05:13,840 --> 01:05:17,080 Speaker 1: employees they have. The difference is how much time they 1242 01:05:17,120 --> 01:05:21,000 Speaker 1: spend prioritizing what they're working on. So let me ask you, 1243 01:05:21,040 --> 01:05:22,960 Speaker 1: how do you how do you organize your days? Like, 1244 01:05:22,960 --> 01:05:25,280 Speaker 1: how do you how do you remain focus on what's 1245 01:05:25,320 --> 01:05:29,200 Speaker 1: important and not get distracted? Yeah, that's it's a great question. 1246 01:05:29,360 --> 01:05:32,400 Speaker 1: So a few things that I've used is I read 1247 01:05:32,440 --> 01:05:35,520 Speaker 1: a study that said you can't be effectively creative and 1248 01:05:35,600 --> 01:05:39,600 Speaker 1: logical at the same time or back to back. So 1249 01:05:39,840 --> 01:05:43,880 Speaker 1: I avoid scheduling a creative and then a data or 1250 01:05:44,000 --> 01:05:46,640 Speaker 1: numbers meeting back to back. So I'll try and have 1251 01:05:46,720 --> 01:05:52,800 Speaker 1: creative mornings and data afternoons or creative days and data days, 1252 01:05:53,120 --> 01:05:55,720 Speaker 1: and that, to me makes it easier for my brain 1253 01:05:55,800 --> 01:05:59,000 Speaker 1: to be in the zone and focus and get absorbed 1254 01:05:59,040 --> 01:06:01,919 Speaker 1: and obsessed with what we're dealing with, rather than going 1255 01:06:01,960 --> 01:06:04,280 Speaker 1: back and forth, back and forth and stressing my mind 1256 01:06:04,320 --> 01:06:07,400 Speaker 1: to be brainstorm and be really creative and now go 1257 01:06:07,440 --> 01:06:10,280 Speaker 1: off and be really structured. And I don't enjoy that. 1258 01:06:10,320 --> 01:06:12,520 Speaker 1: I found it exhausting, actually, And I used to find 1259 01:06:12,560 --> 01:06:15,160 Speaker 1: that a lot of my fatigue came because I was 1260 01:06:15,240 --> 01:06:19,160 Speaker 1: demanding my brain to be really creative and artistic and 1261 01:06:19,200 --> 01:06:22,120 Speaker 1: then to be really structured and focused, and those two 1262 01:06:22,160 --> 01:06:24,520 Speaker 1: things are opposite. When I'm being creative, sometimes I'm not 1263 01:06:24,560 --> 01:06:27,920 Speaker 1: focused at all, and that's what's good about being creative. 1264 01:06:28,480 --> 01:06:31,600 Speaker 1: And when I'm trying to be focused, my creative mind 1265 01:06:31,680 --> 01:06:33,480 Speaker 1: is not useful. I just want to be able to 1266 01:06:33,480 --> 01:06:36,360 Speaker 1: get something done. So I use what I call efficient 1267 01:06:36,400 --> 01:06:38,520 Speaker 1: and effective days as well. I'm like, Okay, this is 1268 01:06:38,560 --> 01:06:41,880 Speaker 1: an efficiency day, which means doing lots of meetings, getting 1269 01:06:41,880 --> 01:06:43,840 Speaker 1: lots of stuff checked off. And then I have an 1270 01:06:43,840 --> 01:06:46,120 Speaker 1: effective day where it's like all I need to do 1271 01:06:46,200 --> 01:06:48,160 Speaker 1: is come up with one idea for the next chapter 1272 01:06:48,200 --> 01:06:50,680 Speaker 1: of my book. All I need to do is come 1273 01:06:50,760 --> 01:06:52,640 Speaker 1: up with a new vision or a new strategy that 1274 01:06:52,680 --> 01:06:54,720 Speaker 1: I want to create for one of our companies. And 1275 01:06:54,760 --> 01:06:56,960 Speaker 1: so those are effective days where I don't have to 1276 01:06:57,000 --> 01:06:58,880 Speaker 1: do a lot, I don't have to achieve a lot. 1277 01:06:59,040 --> 01:07:01,280 Speaker 1: I just have to do one thing, as you said, 1278 01:07:01,560 --> 01:07:03,520 Speaker 1: And the efficient days are oh yeah, I had like 1279 01:07:03,600 --> 01:07:07,160 Speaker 1: seven phone calls, I checked that meeting off, I did 1280 01:07:07,200 --> 01:07:10,120 Speaker 1: those reviews, like stuff that just I can do easily, 1281 01:07:10,160 --> 01:07:12,400 Speaker 1: and they're back to back to back, and so I've 1282 01:07:12,440 --> 01:07:14,360 Speaker 1: tried as much as I can. By the way, again 1283 01:07:14,440 --> 01:07:17,200 Speaker 1: not perfect. We get this wrong all the time. But 1284 01:07:17,280 --> 01:07:20,760 Speaker 1: that's what I'm pushing towards too, is always pivoting my 1285 01:07:20,880 --> 01:07:25,360 Speaker 1: schedule to be creative and logical days, efficiency and effective days. 1286 01:07:25,920 --> 01:07:30,440 Speaker 1: And the final one is giving myself a sense of 1287 01:07:32,080 --> 01:07:35,960 Speaker 1: you know, I always plan everything from rest to lunch 1288 01:07:36,120 --> 01:07:39,840 Speaker 1: to dinner to breakfast, so or everything exists in my schedule. 1289 01:07:39,880 --> 01:07:42,240 Speaker 1: I believe if it's not in my schedule, it won't happen. 1290 01:07:42,760 --> 01:07:46,520 Speaker 1: So even lunch is in my schedule every day, and 1291 01:07:46,560 --> 01:07:48,240 Speaker 1: I would try as much as I can to pause 1292 01:07:48,280 --> 01:07:50,920 Speaker 1: and break and actually eat at that time, because I 1293 01:07:51,040 --> 01:07:53,200 Speaker 1: found that I used to miss meals, and then I 1294 01:07:53,240 --> 01:07:55,240 Speaker 1: would feel bloated, and then I would feel gas, and 1295 01:07:55,240 --> 01:07:58,160 Speaker 1: then I was feel inflamed, and then I would feel exhausted, 1296 01:07:58,720 --> 01:08:00,680 Speaker 1: and then I couldn't do it the next day. And 1297 01:08:00,760 --> 01:08:04,120 Speaker 1: so I started realizing that a lot of structure, at 1298 01:08:04,160 --> 01:08:06,000 Speaker 1: least five days a week I would say this is 1299 01:08:06,000 --> 01:08:09,080 Speaker 1: a Monday to Friday thing was really powerful for me, 1300 01:08:09,120 --> 01:08:11,240 Speaker 1: and it's stuff that I'm still tinkering with and playing with. 1301 01:08:11,720 --> 01:08:13,400 Speaker 1: What I love about that is that one of the 1302 01:08:13,400 --> 01:08:17,559 Speaker 1: things I hear you saying is you're deliberating your goals. Yeah, right, 1303 01:08:17,640 --> 01:08:20,439 Speaker 1: And we know that this is this is a big 1304 01:08:20,479 --> 01:08:24,400 Speaker 1: part of creating that space and those those cognitive routines 1305 01:08:24,800 --> 01:08:27,800 Speaker 1: to allow ourselves to think more deeply, which is to 1306 01:08:27,920 --> 01:08:30,360 Speaker 1: basically to take a step back and ask ourselves, what 1307 01:08:30,640 --> 01:08:32,960 Speaker 1: is the goal that I'm pursuing right now? Right? There's 1308 01:08:33,360 --> 01:08:35,920 Speaker 1: very often when we're in a situation and because we 1309 01:08:36,040 --> 01:08:40,200 Speaker 1: don't understand the goal, we end up feeling frustrated and 1310 01:08:40,280 --> 01:08:43,240 Speaker 1: at a loss. If I'm with my kids and I'm 1311 01:08:43,240 --> 01:08:46,920 Speaker 1: thinking about work, then I don't know what my goal is. 1312 01:08:47,040 --> 01:08:48,759 Speaker 1: Is my goal to have a moment with my children 1313 01:08:48,760 --> 01:08:50,880 Speaker 1: and really bond with them? Whereas my goal to think 1314 01:08:50,920 --> 01:08:53,240 Speaker 1: through a problem that I'm confronting at work. I end 1315 01:08:53,320 --> 01:08:56,360 Speaker 1: up being terrible at both of them, right because because 1316 01:08:56,479 --> 01:08:58,840 Speaker 1: I'm distracted with my kids. But my kids are so 1317 01:08:58,880 --> 01:09:01,400 Speaker 1: distracting that I can't really think about work, and so 1318 01:09:01,640 --> 01:09:04,479 Speaker 1: very I think, and you know better than I do. 1319 01:09:04,520 --> 01:09:07,519 Speaker 1: But my understanding is a part of mindfulness is actually 1320 01:09:07,520 --> 01:09:10,680 Speaker 1: just being clear about your goals, being clear about what 1321 01:09:10,880 --> 01:09:12,960 Speaker 1: is my goal at this moment? How do I be 1322 01:09:13,120 --> 01:09:18,200 Speaker 1: present aware of what I want to accomplish or experience 1323 01:09:18,400 --> 01:09:21,200 Speaker 1: or feel, or what I want to do with my 1324 01:09:21,280 --> 01:09:24,479 Speaker 1: life right now? And the more we force ourselves to 1325 01:09:24,520 --> 01:09:27,040 Speaker 1: think about our goals, the more we're on that path 1326 01:09:27,320 --> 01:09:31,480 Speaker 1: to doing the deep thinking that makes us more genuinely productive, 1327 01:09:31,680 --> 01:09:35,120 Speaker 1: more genuinely happy, more genuinely a sense of well being. Charles, 1328 01:09:35,200 --> 01:09:39,160 Speaker 1: what brings me joy is that this type of conversation 1329 01:09:39,280 --> 01:09:42,960 Speaker 1: is the reason I started on purpose, Like this conversation 1330 01:09:43,040 --> 01:09:47,519 Speaker 1: has just been so deeply joyful for me, because this 1331 01:09:47,560 --> 01:09:49,720 Speaker 1: is the reason why I started this podcast was to 1332 01:09:49,720 --> 01:09:54,280 Speaker 1: be able to pick someone's brain, pick someone like you, 1333 01:09:54,400 --> 01:09:59,960 Speaker 1: and pick your brain. And I'm genuinely convinced that everyone 1334 01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:03,519 Speaker 1: who listens to this episode and watches this episode will 1335 01:10:03,640 --> 01:10:08,160 Speaker 1: feel like they can restart and reframe how they view 1336 01:10:08,240 --> 01:10:14,840 Speaker 1: habit formation, habit application, habit failure, and then habit longevity 1337 01:10:15,000 --> 01:10:17,280 Speaker 1: based on what you've said. And of course I highly 1338 01:10:17,320 --> 01:10:20,759 Speaker 1: recommend everyone going grab the book The Power of Habit, 1339 01:10:22,280 --> 01:10:24,479 Speaker 1: because it's been such a powerful book in my own 1340 01:10:24,560 --> 01:10:28,240 Speaker 1: personal life for the last eight years since I read it, 1341 01:10:28,320 --> 01:10:32,679 Speaker 1: or nine years now since I read it. And anything 1342 01:10:32,720 --> 01:10:35,120 Speaker 1: that Charles does, not just that book, any book he's written, 1343 01:10:35,160 --> 01:10:38,599 Speaker 1: any work that he's done. Highly recommend following Charles, because 1344 01:10:38,640 --> 01:10:40,280 Speaker 1: as you can see today, you know, you're just a 1345 01:10:40,320 --> 01:10:45,360 Speaker 1: wealth of wisdom, phenomenal, breaking ideas down, making sense of things, 1346 01:10:45,439 --> 01:10:49,560 Speaker 1: making things really simple and easy to apply and understand 1347 01:10:49,560 --> 01:10:52,840 Speaker 1: and retain. And I couldn't thank you more so, Charles. 1348 01:10:52,880 --> 01:10:56,479 Speaker 1: We end every episode of On Purpose with a final 1349 01:10:56,640 --> 01:10:59,479 Speaker 1: five or a fast five where you have to answer 1350 01:10:59,520 --> 01:11:04,400 Speaker 1: each question in one word to one sentence maximum, So 1351 01:11:04,479 --> 01:11:07,320 Speaker 1: you have a one word to one sentence like one 1352 01:11:07,400 --> 01:11:11,719 Speaker 1: hundred and forty character two at character limit. So Charles, 1353 01:11:11,760 --> 01:11:16,439 Speaker 1: these are your final five? Are you ready? I'm ready? Okay, great, Okay. 1354 01:11:16,800 --> 01:11:20,360 Speaker 1: What is the best piece of advice you've ever received? 1355 01:11:21,360 --> 01:11:24,639 Speaker 1: I think the best advice I've ever received is just 1356 01:11:24,760 --> 01:11:28,320 Speaker 1: do the thing that seems passionate to you, beautiful. I 1357 01:11:28,400 --> 01:11:32,519 Speaker 1: love that. Worst piece of advice you've ever received, the 1358 01:11:33,479 --> 01:11:36,040 Speaker 1: advice I've received. My dad told me to go to 1359 01:11:36,080 --> 01:11:38,920 Speaker 1: a University of New Mexico because I grew up in Albuquerque, 1360 01:11:38,960 --> 01:11:43,400 Speaker 1: New Mexico. I'm really glad I didn't. I love that. 1361 01:11:43,560 --> 01:11:46,559 Speaker 1: I love that. Third question, what's the first thing you 1362 01:11:46,600 --> 01:11:48,519 Speaker 1: do when you wake up in the morning. The first 1363 01:11:48,560 --> 01:11:49,760 Speaker 1: thing I do when I wake up in the morning 1364 01:11:49,800 --> 01:11:52,360 Speaker 1: is I get a glass of water, and then I 1365 01:11:52,479 --> 01:11:56,800 Speaker 1: like just like flip through nonsense on my phone to 1366 01:11:56,920 --> 01:11:59,320 Speaker 1: let my brain just settle down. And it works pretty 1367 01:11:59,320 --> 01:12:02,000 Speaker 1: well for me. Cool. And question number four, what's the 1368 01:12:02,080 --> 01:12:04,240 Speaker 1: last thing you do before you get to bed? I 1369 01:12:04,360 --> 01:12:07,760 Speaker 1: read every single night. Nice love to read anything specific. 1370 01:12:08,560 --> 01:12:10,080 Speaker 1: So I you know, I'm a writer for the New 1371 01:12:10,200 --> 01:12:12,679 Speaker 1: Yorker now, so I read The New Yorker very often. 1372 01:12:13,520 --> 01:12:15,320 Speaker 1: Or I always try to have like some novel that 1373 01:12:15,360 --> 01:12:17,960 Speaker 1: I'm reading nice and it's just fun. I love that. 1374 01:12:18,240 --> 01:12:21,200 Speaker 1: And fifth and final question, if you had to choose 1375 01:12:21,320 --> 01:12:25,600 Speaker 1: one habit that everyone in the world had to practice 1376 01:12:25,640 --> 01:12:29,679 Speaker 1: every single day, what would that habit be? Okay, so 1377 01:12:30,240 --> 01:12:33,280 Speaker 1: let me camp about this, because every single day is hard, right, 1378 01:12:34,400 --> 01:12:38,479 Speaker 1: some type of exercise And this is this seems cliche, 1379 01:12:38,560 --> 01:12:41,000 Speaker 1: but I will say I've talked to researcher after researcher, 1380 01:12:41,200 --> 01:12:43,599 Speaker 1: and like one guy said to me, if you could 1381 01:12:43,640 --> 01:12:46,439 Speaker 1: take what exercise did to your body and put it 1382 01:12:46,439 --> 01:12:50,759 Speaker 1: in a pill, every single person would take it every 1383 01:12:50,760 --> 01:12:54,519 Speaker 1: single day, right, And everyone listening knows this. Like, and 1384 01:12:54,600 --> 01:12:55,840 Speaker 1: it doesn't have to be big. It doesn't have to 1385 01:12:55,840 --> 01:12:57,519 Speaker 1: be running a half marathon. It doesn't even have to 1386 01:12:57,520 --> 01:13:01,639 Speaker 1: be running. If you do five push ups, you will 1387 01:13:01,680 --> 01:13:04,080 Speaker 1: feel better. So that's the half of that I wish 1388 01:13:04,080 --> 01:13:06,960 Speaker 1: I could give people. I love that. Charles, thank you 1389 01:13:07,120 --> 01:13:11,240 Speaker 1: so much for your time, your energy, for uh you know, 1390 01:13:11,320 --> 01:13:14,920 Speaker 1: being so gracious with it and giving so much incredible thought. 1391 01:13:14,960 --> 01:13:17,280 Speaker 1: I mean, your energy just flow through the screen. I 1392 01:13:17,560 --> 01:13:21,160 Speaker 1: always love sitting with guests, and often I struggle with 1393 01:13:21,320 --> 01:13:24,320 Speaker 1: interviews that have to be done digitally, but you you 1394 01:13:24,439 --> 01:13:26,800 Speaker 1: brought the best energy. So thank you so much for 1395 01:13:27,600 --> 01:13:30,280 Speaker 1: being so present. Thank you for the show. I'm a 1396 01:13:30,360 --> 01:13:32,240 Speaker 1: huge fan of the show, and I really do think 1397 01:13:32,280 --> 01:13:35,400 Speaker 1: that like your conversations and your ability to draw out 1398 01:13:35,400 --> 01:13:39,520 Speaker 1: of people insights and the warmth that you bring to it. 1399 01:13:39,520 --> 01:13:41,360 Speaker 1: It makes it so much fun to listen to but 1400 01:13:41,439 --> 01:13:45,080 Speaker 1: also so useful. So thank you for all the stuff 1401 01:13:45,080 --> 01:13:47,160 Speaker 1: you're doing. No, thank you, Charles, And I'm excited to 1402 01:13:47,240 --> 01:13:48,760 Speaker 1: have you back on. So I know you're working on 1403 01:13:48,760 --> 01:13:51,719 Speaker 1: a new book. We won't say anything, but when when 1404 01:13:51,720 --> 01:13:53,320 Speaker 1: when that comes out, we'd love to have you back 1405 01:13:53,360 --> 01:13:55,840 Speaker 1: on and stay in touch. If you're ever in La, 1406 01:13:55,920 --> 01:13:57,800 Speaker 1: come and say hello. I'd love to meet you and 1407 01:13:57,880 --> 01:14:00,559 Speaker 1: love to connect and hang out for lunch of or something. 1408 01:14:00,600 --> 01:14:03,200 Speaker 1: But genuinely, thank you so much, Charles, And for everyone 1409 01:14:03,200 --> 01:14:06,000 Speaker 1: who's been listening and watching, make sure you tag me 1410 01:14:06,080 --> 01:14:09,200 Speaker 1: and Charles on Instagram, on Twitter, or on Facebook, on TikTok, 1411 01:14:09,400 --> 01:14:12,520 Speaker 1: whatever platform you're using to share with us what resonated 1412 01:14:12,560 --> 01:14:14,760 Speaker 1: with you, What's a new habit that you're going to 1413 01:14:14,800 --> 01:14:17,920 Speaker 1: work on. Maybe your newest resolutions didn't work out and 1414 01:14:17,920 --> 01:14:19,960 Speaker 1: you're going to use this episode as a reset or 1415 01:14:19,960 --> 01:14:23,160 Speaker 1: a restart as well, So please please please do tag 1416 01:14:23,240 --> 01:14:25,599 Speaker 1: us because I love to see what connected with you, 1417 01:14:25,840 --> 01:14:28,280 Speaker 1: what resonated with you, and what you're going to put 1418 01:14:28,280 --> 01:14:31,519 Speaker 1: into practice. Thank you so much for listening. Makes you 1419 01:14:31,560 --> 01:14:34,120 Speaker 1: pass this along to a friend or family member who 1420 01:14:34,160 --> 01:14:36,439 Speaker 1: may need it, and thank you Charles for doing this. 1421 01:14:36,600 --> 01:14:39,240 Speaker 1: I appreciate you. We'll see you again next time on 1422 01:14:39,960 --> 01:14:40,400 Speaker 1: purpose