WEBVTT - From The Archives: Don Lemon Writes About God 0:00:02.320 --> 0:00:05.240 This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the 0:00:05.280 --> 0:00:09.960 Thing from iHeart Radio. The last few years have seen 0:00:10.039 --> 0:00:14.320 drastic changes in the rapidly evolving landscape of cable and 0:00:14.360 --> 0:00:18.119 streaming television. You know the times have changed when even 0:00:18.160 --> 0:00:22.400 the news is making news. At CNN, there were reports 0:00:22.400 --> 0:00:27.160 of chaos and uncertainty, the sudden resignation of President Jeff Zucker, 0:00:27.640 --> 0:00:31.400 followed by the installation of his successor, Qus Licked, and 0:00:31.480 --> 0:00:35.800 drastic changes to their lineup. One of the biggest changes 0:00:36.240 --> 0:00:40.320 moving my guest Today. CNN Tonight anchored Don Lemon to 0:00:40.440 --> 0:00:45.440 Mornings after a decade in prime time. Shortly after, Lemon 0:00:45.560 --> 0:00:50.200 made some controversial comments on air and was unceremoniously fired 0:00:50.240 --> 0:00:54.640 from the network seventeen years into his tenure. Now, he 0:00:54.680 --> 0:00:58.080 has released a book, I Once Was Lost My Search 0:00:58.160 --> 0:01:01.520 for God in America, a day deeply personal journey of 0:01:01.560 --> 0:01:04.880 his faith through difficult times that also takes a hard 0:01:04.920 --> 0:01:06.480 look at politics. 0:01:06.080 --> 0:01:10.880 And religion in America Today. The Emmy winning journalist launched 0:01:10.880 --> 0:01:13.720 a new series earlier this year, The Don Lemon Show, 0:01:14.040 --> 0:01:18.360 on streaming podcast platforms and on YouTube. I wanted to 0:01:18.400 --> 0:01:21.559 know how he made the decision of where to launch 0:01:21.560 --> 0:01:22.200 his new show. 0:01:23.440 --> 0:01:26.560 YouTube is the number one network in the world. It 0:01:26.600 --> 0:01:30.520 has surpassed Netflix. It's because everyone has that computer in 0:01:30.560 --> 0:01:34.240 their pocket, and that is the new television. It's the 0:01:34.280 --> 0:01:35.959 same thing you watch it, but it's just a different 0:01:36.000 --> 0:01:38.760 form of distribution. So if I can go there, create 0:01:38.840 --> 0:01:42.240 content and pretty much do exactly what I want to do, 0:01:42.440 --> 0:01:45.840 why not. That's why I chose YouTube. Also, Alec, I 0:01:45.920 --> 0:01:49.680 have some contractual obligations. As you know, you're in the business, 0:01:49.680 --> 0:01:51.280 you have non competes and all of that. So I 0:01:51.280 --> 0:01:54.279 had to find a place where I could go and 0:01:54.480 --> 0:01:56.960 do what I do and create model cable non network 0:01:57.720 --> 0:02:00.160 that doesn't compete with my contract at the old. 0:02:01.120 --> 0:02:03.400 Now I want to touch on that, I'm going to 0:02:03.440 --> 0:02:07.400 We've got two things here overacy, career and faith. The 0:02:07.400 --> 0:02:10.639 book is called I Once Was Lost, and I went 0:02:10.680 --> 0:02:12.840 to your book signing event where you were interviewed by 0:02:12.880 --> 0:02:13.840 Zucker who was very funny. 0:02:13.840 --> 0:02:16.280 By the way, I was surprised. He's very good. 0:02:16.800 --> 0:02:19.560 So you go to YouTube oversely, there's a noncompete aspect 0:02:19.600 --> 0:02:23.920 in there. But to describe your career in television and 0:02:24.120 --> 0:02:27.320 when that ended? What ended you started at CNN, what 0:02:27.480 --> 0:02:31.120 year two thousand and six, and you started doing what 0:02:31.600 --> 0:02:32.480 I started as. 0:02:32.880 --> 0:02:35.200 Let's see, Oh wow, it's been so long ago. 0:02:35.240 --> 0:02:37.760 Two thousand and six, I was the afternoon anchor on 0:02:38.600 --> 0:02:42.400 CNN Newsroom from one to four in the afternoon, and 0:02:42.480 --> 0:02:44.000 you did that for how long? I did that for 0:02:44.040 --> 0:02:45.560 about eight years or so? 0:02:45.680 --> 0:02:48.560 Eight years? Yeah, yeah, thirteen to fourteen. I moved on. 0:02:48.600 --> 0:02:49.240 I moved to New York. 0:02:49.280 --> 0:02:51.320 I was in Atlanta, and you move on to do 0:02:51.360 --> 0:02:54.600 what show I moved on to do. I did weekend 0:02:54.680 --> 0:02:56.800 evenings for a while to sort of create, you know, 0:02:56.800 --> 0:02:59.560 get my own voice, develop my own voice. And then 0:03:00.080 --> 0:03:02.520 Jeff Souker took over and said, hey, you're pretty talented. 0:03:02.600 --> 0:03:04.680 Who was in charge before Zucker Jim Walton was ahead 0:03:04.680 --> 0:03:06.560 of the network here, and Zuker took over and he 0:03:06.560 --> 0:03:08.000 wanted you want in the evening? He put you on 0:03:08.040 --> 0:03:08.480 in the evening. 0:03:08.560 --> 0:03:10.680 Yes, I went to Zucker because I did. 0:03:10.880 --> 0:03:13.760 I hated Atlanta and I'm a New Yorker even though 0:03:13.800 --> 0:03:16.079 I grew up in Louisiana, I'm a New Yorker by heart. 0:03:16.680 --> 0:03:19.119 And I said, hey, listen, it's been great working here. 0:03:19.840 --> 0:03:20.440 I'm out of here. 0:03:20.800 --> 0:03:23.280 I said, I can't live in Atlanta anymore. So thanks, 0:03:23.360 --> 0:03:24.960 you know, I'm glad you just took over the network. 0:03:24.960 --> 0:03:27.720 Blah blah blah blah, he said. He said, yeah, he said, 0:03:27.800 --> 0:03:30.160 you don't have to You're moving to New York. And 0:03:30.240 --> 0:03:32.280 that was it, and you did the evening on the weekends, 0:03:32.280 --> 0:03:34.160 and then you did your evening show starting when how 0:03:34.200 --> 0:03:34.480 long was it? 0:03:34.520 --> 0:03:35.080 So weekends? 0:03:35.120 --> 0:03:37.080 I did the evenings on the weekends for a while. 0:03:37.080 --> 0:03:39.839 I think I did the evenings for you know, five years. 0:03:40.040 --> 0:03:42.320 Look the afternoon. I'm sort of, you know, sort of 0:03:42.360 --> 0:03:44.400 mixing that in the evening because I started the evening 0:03:44.400 --> 0:03:47.800 in Atlanta and then I continue the evening in New York. 0:03:47.840 --> 0:03:50.320 And Jeff would sort of mentor me, you know, because 0:03:50.480 --> 0:03:53.720 he's he watched twenty four hours a day son breaking news. 0:03:53.960 --> 0:03:54.280 Tell you. 0:03:54.360 --> 0:03:57.280 He would say, breaking news, I need you to stay 0:03:57.280 --> 0:03:59.280 on for another hour. We're going to blow out the 0:03:59.440 --> 0:04:01.640 medical show and need you to stay on and do this, 0:04:01.880 --> 0:04:03.440 repeat the breaking news. 0:04:03.520 --> 0:04:05.960 You know. Or he didn't coach at style. No, no, 0:04:06.000 --> 0:04:07.880 not at all, because he liked my style. He liked 0:04:07.880 --> 0:04:08.360 me being me. 0:04:08.440 --> 0:04:10.760 He's he would if anything, he would say, lean into it, 0:04:11.200 --> 0:04:13.960 so he would say, you know, recap, tell the audience. 0:04:14.040 --> 0:04:16.200 You know it's breaking news, what it is. He wouldn't 0:04:16.200 --> 0:04:18.800 tell me what to say. He would say a good 0:04:18.920 --> 0:04:21.919 question might be something like this, and I wouldn't ask it, 0:04:22.480 --> 0:04:24.880 you know, exactly as he would say if I wanted 0:04:24.880 --> 0:04:26.280 to do it. But he wouldn't get upset if I 0:04:26.279 --> 0:04:29.080 didn't do it. So you could do audibles like quarterbacks, 0:04:29.160 --> 0:04:31.359 Yes I could. And then he started. I had me 0:04:31.440 --> 0:04:33.960 filling in on every single show. I'd fill in the afternoon, 0:04:34.000 --> 0:04:36.360 I'd fill in the morning, I would do my evening show, 0:04:36.400 --> 0:04:38.279 and he would send me on big stories. 0:04:38.080 --> 0:04:39.599 And he was He really developed me. 0:04:40.240 --> 0:04:43.120 And you started doing your show, the big show, the 0:04:43.120 --> 0:04:43.760 evening show. 0:04:43.600 --> 0:04:46.920 Win I started doing my show. Aaron Burnett went out 0:04:46.920 --> 0:04:49.880 on maternity leave and Jeff said, I want you to 0:04:49.920 --> 0:04:52.080 take over for her from maternity leave. So her entire 0:04:52.200 --> 0:04:54.880 couple months she was off, I filled in at seven 0:04:54.880 --> 0:04:57.040 o'clock show. It was me and I did my weekend 0:04:57.080 --> 0:05:00.080 shoe So I was working seven days a week and 0:05:00.120 --> 0:05:00.640 I didn't mind it. 0:05:00.680 --> 0:05:01.080 I loved it. 0:05:01.120 --> 0:05:04.039 Actually, you're doing the mornings, and you're doing and morning shows, 0:05:04.040 --> 0:05:06.400 which have become so bizarre to me, I know, I 0:05:06.440 --> 0:05:08.640 said to people, And I love all these people meant 0:05:08.680 --> 0:05:10.960 I love Katie Cork. But the last time I watched 0:05:11.000 --> 0:05:13.159 the Today Show was when Katie Cork was on with 0:05:13.279 --> 0:05:16.280 lour and they did a I guess maybe it was 0:05:16.320 --> 0:05:19.800 for Halloween. They all dressed up and clothing and they 0:05:19.800 --> 0:05:22.640 sang diamonds are a Girl's best friend as she's walking 0:05:22.680 --> 0:05:25.839 down a staircase, a glittering staircase or whatever, and I thought, 0:05:25.880 --> 0:05:28.239 I'm done. I don't know, I want the news, maybe 0:05:28.240 --> 0:05:30.039 tell some jokes or whatever. But they turned it into 0:05:30.080 --> 0:05:34.240 an entertainment show. But mornings it's obviously a different ball game. 0:05:34.320 --> 0:05:37.080 Even weekends, maybe you're a different ballgame. So what adjustments 0:05:37.080 --> 0:05:38.400 do you have to make in your style to be 0:05:38.400 --> 0:05:39.040 on in the evening? 0:05:39.120 --> 0:05:40.920 Oh? Well, I'm an evening guy. 0:05:41.120 --> 0:05:43.320 The only reason I did the mornings is because and 0:05:43.400 --> 0:05:44.920 you told me, you know, when I did the like, 0:05:45.080 --> 0:05:47.039 she said, no one wants to see you in the morning, 0:05:47.040 --> 0:05:49.080 And you were right. I'm not a morning person. I'm 0:05:49.080 --> 0:05:50.760 not very good in the morning. I'm not good on coffee. 0:05:50.800 --> 0:05:52.719 Caffeine makes me jittery. I don't know what I'm saying 0:05:52.800 --> 0:05:55.240 or doing. So I did it because my company asked 0:05:55.240 --> 0:05:57.599 me to do it, and I was being a team player, 0:05:57.600 --> 0:05:59.520 but it was not a good fit for me. The 0:05:59.560 --> 0:06:03.840 adjustment is is that you're constantly sleeping, you have. 0:06:03.760 --> 0:06:04.880 To get up. I'm a night oul. 0:06:04.960 --> 0:06:06.160 I don't go to go to bed until two or 0:06:06.200 --> 0:06:07.479 three in the morning, and I'm up at you know, 0:06:07.520 --> 0:06:10.520 maybe ten right before I would you know, i'd have 0:06:10.560 --> 0:06:12.159 to wake up when I mean, when I was doing 0:06:12.160 --> 0:06:13.599 the mornings, I had to wake up at four in 0:06:13.640 --> 0:06:15.839 the morning, right, I know what it'll be. It was really, 0:06:15.880 --> 0:06:19.080 really tough. So that's really the adjustment. I'm a cool 0:06:19.080 --> 0:06:21.440 cat at night. I like it, and I like that 0:06:21.440 --> 0:06:23.680 that late time slot. Working at night, I do too, 0:06:23.800 --> 0:06:26.360 and I get my best Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 0:06:26.480 --> 0:06:27.080 I do movies. 0:06:27.080 --> 0:06:29.039 And the guy said to me, we're in a black 0:06:29.080 --> 0:06:32.839 box theater shooting this movie for all these scenes inside 0:06:32.839 --> 0:06:35.719 this theater for a month in Florida. And he says, so, 0:06:35.800 --> 0:06:38.360 no windows, know nothing, no light dependent at all. He goes, 0:06:38.400 --> 0:06:40.160 we can shoot whenever we want. He goes, what time 0:06:40.200 --> 0:06:40.960 you want to go to work? 0:06:41.000 --> 0:06:44.080 Love it? And I said none, I'm going to shoot 0:06:44.160 --> 0:06:46.080 noon to midnight. Yeah, and we did. We shot noon 0:06:46.120 --> 0:06:47.960 to midnight for four weeks. I was in heaven. I 0:06:48.000 --> 0:06:49.440 was like man, I'm just getting going. 0:06:49.600 --> 0:06:52.839 Yeah, I like about seven or eight at night, like 0:06:53.000 --> 0:06:55.200 my best work. I don't wake up that late, but 0:06:55.240 --> 0:06:57.400 my best work is at night. So having that ten 0:06:57.400 --> 0:07:00.160 o'clock slot was perfect for me. And then you know, 0:07:00.200 --> 0:07:02.160 I was on until midnight every night, but that was 0:07:02.200 --> 0:07:03.440 when I would get that energy. 0:07:03.480 --> 0:07:05.800 And you're like being solo. Oh, I love the co 0:07:05.920 --> 0:07:08.560 anchors for a while. It's tough. You didn't like that format. 0:07:08.640 --> 0:07:10.280 No, I'm a team player, but not in that way. 0:07:10.880 --> 0:07:13.760 I have my own flow and everybody can't keep up 0:07:13.760 --> 0:07:14.600 with me, you know. 0:07:14.680 --> 0:07:17.480 And and doubles tennis, they're not the best partner. Yeah, 0:07:17.600 --> 0:07:19.360 at your game, and you got to you gotta have 0:07:19.400 --> 0:07:20.680 a good part of that. You have to have someone 0:07:20.720 --> 0:07:21.680 who can keep up with you. 0:07:22.080 --> 0:07:24.040 And you know, I don't mean that in a you know, 0:07:24.280 --> 0:07:28.280 I'm not diminishing anyone, but someone like a Kara Swisher personal. Yeah, 0:07:28.560 --> 0:07:31.520 like someone like a Kara Swisher or a Joy Behar 0:07:31.600 --> 0:07:33.560 or someone they could keep up with me. They get 0:07:33.600 --> 0:07:36.360 my sense of humor and they don't take anything personally 0:07:36.360 --> 0:07:38.360 and they can give it or take it as good 0:07:38.360 --> 0:07:39.840 as they give it, right, you know what I mean. 0:07:39.920 --> 0:07:41.440 I love that kind of it. They didn't want to 0:07:41.640 --> 0:07:46.360 demonize or criminalize your moderances. No, because they they under 0:07:46.400 --> 0:07:49.440 they they their pals and they get me. It's not personal. 0:07:49.520 --> 0:07:51.680 It's just we're just we're just sitting having a conversation 0:07:51.960 --> 0:07:54.480 and people say all kinds of things and conversations and 0:07:54.520 --> 0:07:56.920 it's not personal. It's just your talking. And when you talk, 0:07:56.960 --> 0:07:58.600 you say things. You go, ah, I don't. 0:07:58.400 --> 0:08:01.360 Mean that, Okay, all right, right, so I said some shit, 0:08:01.440 --> 0:08:03.880 that was great, whatever, and you just move on. But 0:08:04.440 --> 0:08:06.600 you can't do that with everybody, because you know, especially 0:08:06.600 --> 0:08:09.520 like younger folks, everything is like a personal affront. 0:08:09.760 --> 0:08:13.160 Well, you walk in on the set of a project, 0:08:13.480 --> 0:08:15.920 and when you're around young people, I find that there's 0:08:15.920 --> 0:08:19.240 a potential for certain difficulties. So I've never had any 0:08:19.240 --> 0:08:21.320 problems with this myself. I never had any I've had 0:08:21.320 --> 0:08:23.840 other problems obviously, but not that one. And you walk 0:08:23.880 --> 0:08:27.000 onto the set, especially of a film, and you're there 0:08:27.080 --> 0:08:29.800 and people they're tents, and you don't realize how tense there. 0:08:29.800 --> 0:08:33.120 They're scared younger people. You come on and there. I mean, 0:08:33.160 --> 0:08:35.959 I've made whatever number of movies, I've made one hundred movies, 0:08:36.040 --> 0:08:38.560 ninety movies, whatever, I take pictures with people now, but 0:08:38.600 --> 0:08:40.760 I got taught by somebody famous. You put your arm 0:08:40.760 --> 0:08:42.840 out and they hook their elbow around your elbow, and 0:08:42.840 --> 0:08:44.720 they go, why do you want to do that? A 0:08:44.760 --> 0:08:46.120 few of them would say, and I say, I can't 0:08:46.120 --> 0:08:48.240 put my hand behind your body, and you got it. 0:08:48.440 --> 0:08:50.600 My hand can't be hidden behind your back in the photogo. 0:08:50.720 --> 0:08:51.800 All the games you've got to play? 0:08:51.840 --> 0:08:52.600 Now? Which are which? 0:08:53.200 --> 0:08:53.240 Was? 0:08:53.240 --> 0:08:54.920 I'm concerned? No, but you're right about that. You said 0:08:54.920 --> 0:08:56.760 you've done so many movies. I had been. 0:08:56.800 --> 0:09:00.920 I think I was doing the afternoons from six about nine, 0:09:01.280 --> 0:09:03.520 and then I started doing the weekend evenings, and so 0:09:03.600 --> 0:09:06.280 I've been doing the weekend evenings. I'd been solo, I 0:09:06.280 --> 0:09:09.520 should say, from about two thousand and nine to twenty 0:09:09.559 --> 0:09:12.560 twenty three or twenty twenty two, and so I was 0:09:12.600 --> 0:09:14.800 just used to my own flow and people, you know, 0:09:15.200 --> 0:09:17.920 were used to me just being me, and so I 0:09:17.920 --> 0:09:20.680 had been there for quite some time solo anchor. 0:09:20.720 --> 0:09:22.439 And you know, people come in and they're like they 0:09:22.520 --> 0:09:23.480 you know, they don't get it. 0:09:23.880 --> 0:09:25.440 You know, now when you do a show like that 0:09:25.480 --> 0:09:27.440 for people who don't know, because I find this behind 0:09:27.440 --> 0:09:30.160 the scenes very interesting. You come in there, you come in. 0:09:30.280 --> 0:09:31.880 The show was on the air at ten. The big 0:09:31.920 --> 0:09:34.199 show was on a ten. You did the past two 0:09:34.280 --> 0:09:37.400 with Chris and then everybody thought that was very entertaining 0:09:37.440 --> 0:09:37.880 the two of you. 0:09:38.080 --> 0:09:41.200 It's the biggest compliment that people say about that and 0:09:41.240 --> 0:09:44.440 about my show. They say that was the last appointment 0:09:44.679 --> 0:09:48.600 television for the network. Was that handoff and then going 0:09:48.760 --> 0:09:49.240 on the show. 0:09:49.280 --> 0:09:51.920 Yeah. But the thing that people don't understand is you 0:09:51.960 --> 0:09:52.720 get there what time? 0:09:53.600 --> 0:09:56.080 It would depend if I if I had a pre tape, 0:09:56.080 --> 0:09:58.640 I would go in earlier. But at the end I 0:09:58.760 --> 0:10:01.120 moved across the street from the office, so it would 0:10:01.120 --> 0:10:03.640 take me literally a minute, minute and a half to 0:10:03.720 --> 0:10:06.040 be on the set because I lived and it was 0:10:06.080 --> 0:10:06.880 in huts and yards. 0:10:07.320 --> 0:10:10.640 So I would go to work probably about eight eight thirty. 0:10:10.679 --> 0:10:12.439 So you're not there at three o'clock writing. 0:10:12.640 --> 0:10:15.160 No, I'm doing that from home, got it because basically 0:10:15.240 --> 0:10:18.120 my office is not much further from the set than 0:10:18.160 --> 0:10:20.480 my home was. But before that, I would probably get 0:10:20.480 --> 0:10:23.560 to work about six, right And the reason I did 0:10:23.559 --> 0:10:25.400 that part of it was because of Jeff. 0:10:26.080 --> 0:10:28.559 Jeff said, why are you working on the show so early? 0:10:28.720 --> 0:10:29.080 Your show? 0:10:29.120 --> 0:10:30.640 Why are you guys in the morning meeting the morning 0:10:30.679 --> 0:10:33.040 meetings at nine in the morning. Your show is twelve 0:10:33.080 --> 0:10:35.400 hours away, a half a day away. Everything's going to 0:10:35.480 --> 0:10:38.440 change exactly, So what are you doing? And I found 0:10:38.440 --> 0:10:40.800 that when I would study for all of this stuff 0:10:40.800 --> 0:10:43.719 and just study, study, study, and over prepare, and then 0:10:43.760 --> 0:10:45.720 by the time the show came about at ten o'clock, 0:10:45.720 --> 0:10:46.679 it would be a whole different show. 0:10:46.679 --> 0:10:48.079 And I'd say, why the hell did I would I 0:10:48.160 --> 0:10:49.920 do this? You've got to be more plodet to learn 0:10:49.920 --> 0:10:50.480 to be nimble. 0:10:50.720 --> 0:10:53.320 Now you're there doing a show like that. How much 0:10:53.360 --> 0:10:56.640 do director about technical directors with cameras in a studio? 0:10:57.000 --> 0:11:00.720 Are there directors, segment producers, writers, who's got your ear 0:11:01.160 --> 0:11:03.120 in terms of content while you're doing the show? 0:11:03.240 --> 0:11:06.200 So it's my executive producer? And how many of those 0:11:06.280 --> 0:11:07.480 did you have when you were on the big show? 0:11:07.600 --> 0:11:10.319 I had one executive producer who is and then Maria Spanella, 0:11:10.800 --> 0:11:14.000 and then I had my own personal producer, and then 0:11:14.040 --> 0:11:16.320 there were segment producers. And so if there was a 0:11:16.360 --> 0:11:18.240 segment that someone had prepared and they needed to be 0:11:18.280 --> 0:11:20.320 in the control room, usually they stood there anyways, and 0:11:20.360 --> 0:11:21.960 so the segment producer would get in my ear. But 0:11:22.040 --> 0:11:25.720 usually it was the executive producer, but sometimes they would say, 0:11:26.000 --> 0:11:28.680 you know, I would say it was nineteen times and they'd. 0:11:28.440 --> 0:11:31.280 Go ninety ninety and I'm going because sometimes you don't 0:11:31.320 --> 0:11:32.240 realize what you say right. 0:11:32.240 --> 0:11:34.480 You'll just read something wrong or you just say something wrong, 0:11:34.760 --> 0:11:36.920 and so they would correct me. But it was mostly 0:11:36.960 --> 0:11:39.960 the director and the executive producer and mostly the director 0:11:39.960 --> 0:11:42.840 who would say, Okay, thirty seconds out, ten seconds out 0:11:42.880 --> 0:11:45.600 camera two, so start on camera two and I'm going 0:11:45.679 --> 0:11:47.640 to turn you to three. Stand by, you know, the 0:11:47.679 --> 0:11:52.680 whole thing, three two and go camera one, turn and 0:11:52.720 --> 0:11:54.600 then you do that that sort of thing, right, And 0:11:54.640 --> 0:11:57.120 then you know, they would say it yeah, and you'd 0:11:57.120 --> 0:11:59.000 say you know, and it's fourteen people and they'd say 0:11:59.000 --> 0:12:00.760 graphic and I'd go, take to look at your screen, 0:12:00.840 --> 0:12:02.800 that it's up on the screen right now, blah blah 0:12:02.800 --> 0:12:04.959 blah blah blah, and then you talk about blah and 0:12:05.000 --> 0:12:06.600 then they'd say on cam and then I'd look back 0:12:06.679 --> 0:12:07.360 up and go, okay. 0:12:07.440 --> 0:12:11.320 Then just someone's directing your performance. Yeah, directing. They just 0:12:11.720 --> 0:12:14.600 just to know where I'm going technically, right, but they're 0:12:14.600 --> 0:12:16.720 directing your your tone or no. 0:12:17.120 --> 0:12:19.680 If I was off on something, someone would say something 0:12:19.720 --> 0:12:21.720 she'd say like, all right, was it up wash your tone? 0:12:21.800 --> 0:12:24.320 Yeah? Or yeah, you're you're dragging a little bit. Are 0:12:24.320 --> 0:12:25.679 you tired? Whatever you want us to bring? 0:12:26.040 --> 0:12:29.040 You want us to bring your coffee, diet coke or something, yeah, 0:12:29.160 --> 0:12:30.360 or I'm gonna send makeup in. 0:12:30.400 --> 0:12:33.160 You're shiny, but that sort of thing. That's it small small. 0:12:33.360 --> 0:12:35.920 Now I'm assuming that when lickt comes in, this is 0:12:36.000 --> 0:12:38.160 just zas Love wants things his way. This is his 0:12:38.280 --> 0:12:40.760 magiemem it. Now it's going to be my CNN. So 0:12:40.840 --> 0:12:44.160 Zuker's gone and he brings Licked in. And when Zuker's 0:12:44.160 --> 0:12:46.120 gonna gone? How much advanced notice did you have the 0:12:46.240 --> 0:12:48.880 Zuker was leaving? Oh that I mean that was in 0:12:48.960 --> 0:12:51.559 the news, right, so not much. Did you know when 0:12:51.559 --> 0:12:53.640 he was going to be gone and someone else was 0:12:53.679 --> 0:12:55.880 coming in? Who was going to run the company? You 0:12:55.880 --> 0:12:56.280 didn't know. 0:12:56.559 --> 0:12:58.800 No, no one, no one. No one gave you any dance. 0:12:58.920 --> 0:13:01.400 No, it was in the it was in the morning meeting. 0:13:01.480 --> 0:13:03.959 When it happened. I was in LA and I forget 0:13:03.960 --> 0:13:05.400 what I was doing. It may have been award season 0:13:05.520 --> 0:13:05.760 or something. 0:13:05.760 --> 0:13:06.120 I forget. 0:13:06.120 --> 0:13:08.960 I was in La doing a project for the network, 0:13:09.320 --> 0:13:11.959 and I took the Red Eye, and I got home 0:13:12.160 --> 0:13:15.760 and went to sleep, and I woke up to a 0:13:15.840 --> 0:13:17.440 lot of text messages. 0:13:17.000 --> 0:13:18.800 And I was like, wait, what is this. It always 0:13:18.840 --> 0:13:20.080 happens that way. That happened that way. 0:13:20.120 --> 0:13:23.920 When when Chris was let go, Chris linked and my 0:13:24.000 --> 0:13:27.360 executive purser is at don Jeff just resigned in the 0:13:27.400 --> 0:13:31.160 morning meeting, and I was like, wait what And then 0:13:31.240 --> 0:13:32.679 he called me and he said I didn't have a 0:13:32.760 --> 0:13:34.440 chance to tell you whatever, blah blah blah. And you 0:13:34.440 --> 0:13:36.520 know he called everybody afterwards, but I don't think he 0:13:36.559 --> 0:13:39.320 really had any notice himself, right, Yeah. 0:13:39.000 --> 0:13:40.280 Well, I kind of equate him. 0:13:40.320 --> 0:13:42.320 This is just my opinion, by the way, which is meaningless, 0:13:42.360 --> 0:13:44.720 but I kind of equate him with Ronnie Meyer when 0:13:44.720 --> 0:13:48.240 they let Ronnie Meyer go for similar reasons his personal life, 0:13:48.440 --> 0:13:49.960 and you want to sit there and you want to go, well, 0:13:50.120 --> 0:13:52.160 I'm running a company now and I'd like this guy 0:13:52.240 --> 0:13:54.600 to go. And that's my excuse to let him go. 0:13:55.280 --> 0:13:56.840 And I really was going to bring it another guy 0:13:56.880 --> 0:13:59.240 because I want my I want to run my CNN, 0:14:00.000 --> 0:14:01.840 but he's gone, like universal. I think Ronnie Meyer hit 0:14:01.840 --> 0:14:03.520 the point where he was making like forty million dollars 0:14:03.559 --> 0:14:05.679 a year, and they were like, no, yeah, we need 0:14:05.720 --> 0:14:06.160 you to go. 0:14:06.600 --> 0:14:08.960 Look, I'll let you say that. But you're a smart guy. 0:14:09.200 --> 0:14:12.040 So but here, you know, Jeff is the last of 0:14:12.120 --> 0:14:17.280 a TV executive, the celebrity TV executive Mavericks. Right, everyone 0:14:17.360 --> 0:14:21.040 is so risk averse now they're afraid, you know, they're 0:14:20.880 --> 0:14:24.000 with the stockholders wanting all that. He really protected us 0:14:24.000 --> 0:14:27.640 from the overlords, right from the corporate you know overlords. 0:14:27.640 --> 0:14:30.200 He really did his guts, his guts and he's like, 0:14:30.360 --> 0:14:34.600 you know, this is journalism. I understand what you do 0:14:34.720 --> 0:14:37.400 because he did what they did, right. He ran NBC 0:14:37.560 --> 0:14:40.640 and he understood it. But he's really a journalist at 0:14:40.680 --> 0:14:43.600 heart because he started at the Today Show and he 0:14:43.640 --> 0:14:45.520 started in the news president there. He had a good 0:14:45.560 --> 0:14:47.000 run there, and then he went to run the news 0:14:47.000 --> 0:14:49.560 division at NBC, and then he entertainment. Then he ran 0:14:49.600 --> 0:14:52.880 the entire network. So he really and we didn't realize it, 0:14:53.360 --> 0:14:54.800 you know, until he was gone. 0:14:55.680 --> 0:14:58.640 When Licked comes, like most executives I have assumed when 0:14:58.640 --> 0:15:01.720 you're the top tier talent, the show that they come 0:15:01.960 --> 0:15:04.520 is it like dinners and whining and dining and getting 0:15:04.520 --> 0:15:06.080 to know each other and everything's war and you don't 0:15:06.160 --> 0:15:07.560 really know where it's going to go, and then it 0:15:07.600 --> 0:15:09.720 goes the wrong way. 0:15:09.840 --> 0:15:11.760 Yeah, there's a little of that. Yeah, there's a little 0:15:11.760 --> 0:15:15.600 of that. It's polite, it's polite, yeah in the beginning. Yeah, 0:15:15.680 --> 0:15:18.120 and then things changed, right. 0:15:18.200 --> 0:15:19.960 Well, I mean, I just find that odd because I 0:15:20.040 --> 0:15:21.960 just feel like I won't name names, but I've known 0:15:21.960 --> 0:15:24.640 a couple of people who are execs at film studios, 0:15:24.760 --> 0:15:27.640 especially TV, where the that conveyor belt is moving and 0:15:27.680 --> 0:15:30.880 they can't press pause. They have a plan which seems 0:15:30.880 --> 0:15:33.360 to be everybody's plan now. Years ago it was a plan. 0:15:33.440 --> 0:15:35.880 Now it's everybody's plan, which is, if I can't raise revenue, 0:15:35.880 --> 0:15:38.280 I got to cut costs. So it's just a lot 0:15:38.320 --> 0:15:40.120 of firing, a lot of budget cutting. 0:15:40.520 --> 0:15:43.080 But don't you think to a certain extent that when 0:15:43.080 --> 0:15:46.000 your job is protected and mentioned in the First Amendment, 0:15:46.000 --> 0:15:48.320 that there should be some exemption from that whole thing. 0:15:48.400 --> 0:15:51.800 Like I don't think the news division should be solely 0:15:52.880 --> 0:15:57.360 or wholly in large part driven by revenue and numbers, 0:15:57.440 --> 0:16:01.560 numbers and ratings. It shouldn't because you're supposed to give information, 0:16:01.640 --> 0:16:04.920 you're supposed to hold people who are in power, hold 0:16:04.960 --> 0:16:05.680 themto account. 0:16:05.880 --> 0:16:07.800 But you told me that when we were at the 0:16:07.800 --> 0:16:09.720 book party. I raised my hand, I asked the question. 0:16:09.760 --> 0:16:13.320 I said, the networks and traditional media, mainstream media, have 0:16:13.360 --> 0:16:16.040 they lost young people? And you said, they haven't lost, 0:16:16.080 --> 0:16:18.360 but they're losing. And then you went on to talk 0:16:18.400 --> 0:16:21.040 about the people who are considered through some research who 0:16:21.120 --> 0:16:23.920 quoted to being about being the most informed. People get 0:16:23.960 --> 0:16:25.119 their news from where. 0:16:25.160 --> 0:16:28.000 They get their news digitally? Right, Yeah, and listen. 0:16:28.320 --> 0:16:30.640 The older people get their news from, you know, they watch, 0:16:30.720 --> 0:16:32.600 they sit and they watch cable news all day. They 0:16:32.600 --> 0:16:34.640 watch six thirty or they you know, they they're watching 0:16:34.680 --> 0:16:36.680 the morning shows or they're doing that. Younger people are 0:16:36.680 --> 0:16:39.520