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Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the

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Speaker 1: Thing from iHeart Radio. The last few years have seen

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Speaker 1: drastic changes in the rapidly evolving landscape of cable and

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Speaker 1: streaming television. You know the times have changed when even

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Speaker 1: the news is making news. At CNN, there were reports

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Speaker 1: of chaos and uncertainty, the sudden resignation of President Jeff Zucker,

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Speaker 1: followed by the installation of his successor, Qus Licked, and

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Speaker 1: drastic changes to their lineup. One of the biggest changes

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Speaker 1: moving my guest Today. CNN Tonight anchored Don Lemon to

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Speaker 1: Mornings after a decade in prime time. Shortly after, Lemon

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Speaker 1: made some controversial comments on air and was unceremoniously fired

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Speaker 1: from the network seventeen years into his tenure. Now, he

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Speaker 1: has released a book, I Once Was Lost My Search

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Speaker 1: for God in America, a day deeply personal journey of

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Speaker 1: his faith through difficult times that also takes a hard

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Speaker 1: look at politics.

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Speaker 2: And religion in America Today. The Emmy winning journalist launched

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Speaker 2: a new series earlier this year, The Don Lemon Show,

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Speaker 2: on streaming podcast platforms and on YouTube. I wanted to

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Speaker 2: know how he made the decision of where to launch

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Speaker 2: his new show.

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Speaker 3: YouTube is the number one network in the world. It

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Speaker 3: has surpassed Netflix. It's because everyone has that computer in

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Speaker 3: their pocket, and that is the new television. It's the

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Speaker 3: same thing you watch it, but it's just a different

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Speaker 3: form of distribution. So if I can go there, create

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Speaker 3: content and pretty much do exactly what I want to do,

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Speaker 3: why not. That's why I chose YouTube. Also, Alec, I

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Speaker 3: have some contractual obligations. As you know, you're in the business,

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Speaker 3: you have non competes and all of that. So I

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Speaker 3: had to find a place where I could go and

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Speaker 3: do what I do and create model cable non network

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Speaker 3: that doesn't compete with my contract at the old.

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Speaker 1: Now I want to touch on that, I'm going to

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Speaker 1: We've got two things here overacy, career and faith. The

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Speaker 1: book is called I Once Was Lost, and I went

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Speaker 1: to your book signing event where you were interviewed by

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Speaker 1: Zucker who was very funny.

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Speaker 2: By the way, I was surprised. He's very good.

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Speaker 1: So you go to YouTube oversely, there's a noncompete aspect

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Speaker 1: in there. But to describe your career in television and

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Speaker 1: when that ended? What ended you started at CNN, what

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Speaker 1: year two thousand and six, and you started doing what

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Speaker 1: I started as.

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Speaker 2: Let's see, Oh wow, it's been so long ago.

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Speaker 3: Two thousand and six, I was the afternoon anchor on

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Speaker 3: CNN Newsroom from one to four in the afternoon, and

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Speaker 3: you did that for how long? I did that for

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Speaker 3: about eight years or so?

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Speaker 2: Eight years? Yeah, yeah, thirteen to fourteen. I moved on.

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Speaker 2: I moved to New York.

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Speaker 3: I was in Atlanta, and you move on to do

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Speaker 3: what show I moved on to do. I did weekend

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Speaker 3: evenings for a while to sort of create, you know,

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Speaker 3: get my own voice, develop my own voice. And then

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Speaker 3: Jeff Souker took over and said, hey, you're pretty talented.

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Speaker 3: Who was in charge before Zucker Jim Walton was ahead

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Speaker 3: of the network here, and Zuker took over and he

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Speaker 3: wanted you want in the evening? He put you on

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Speaker 3: in the evening.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I went to Zucker because I did.

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Speaker 3: I hated Atlanta and I'm a New Yorker even though

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Speaker 3: I grew up in Louisiana, I'm a New Yorker by heart.

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Speaker 3: And I said, hey, listen, it's been great working here.

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Speaker 2: I'm out of here.

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Speaker 3: I said, I can't live in Atlanta anymore. So thanks,

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Speaker 3: you know, I'm glad you just took over the network.

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Speaker 3: Blah blah blah blah, he said. He said, yeah, he said,

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Speaker 3: you don't have to You're moving to New York. And

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Speaker 3: that was it, and you did the evening on the weekends,

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Speaker 3: and then you did your evening show starting when how

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Speaker 3: long was it?

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Speaker 2: So weekends?

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Speaker 3: I did the evenings on the weekends for a while.

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Speaker 3: I think I did the evenings for you know, five years.

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Speaker 3: Look the afternoon. I'm sort of, you know, sort of

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Speaker 3: mixing that in the evening because I started the evening

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Speaker 3: in Atlanta and then I continue the evening in New York.

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Speaker 3: And Jeff would sort of mentor me, you know, because

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Speaker 3: he's he watched twenty four hours a day son breaking news.

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Speaker 2: Tell you.

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Speaker 3: He would say, breaking news, I need you to stay

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Speaker 3: on for another hour. We're going to blow out the

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Speaker 3: medical show and need you to stay on and do this,

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Speaker 3: repeat the breaking news.

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Speaker 2: You know. Or he didn't coach at style. No, no,

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Speaker 2: not at all, because he liked my style. He liked

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Speaker 2: me being me.

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Speaker 3: He's he would if anything, he would say, lean into it,

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Speaker 3: so he would say, you know, recap, tell the audience.

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Speaker 3: You know it's breaking news, what it is. He wouldn't

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Speaker 3: tell me what to say. He would say a good

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Speaker 3: question might be something like this, and I wouldn't ask it,

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Speaker 3: you know, exactly as he would say if I wanted

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Speaker 3: to do it. But he wouldn't get upset if I

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Speaker 3: didn't do it. So you could do audibles like quarterbacks,

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Speaker 3: Yes I could. And then he started. I had me

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Speaker 3: filling in on every single show. I'd fill in the afternoon,

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Speaker 3: I'd fill in the morning, I would do my evening show,

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Speaker 3: and he would send me on big stories.

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Speaker 2: And he was He really developed me.

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Speaker 1: And you started doing your show, the big show, the

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Speaker 1: evening show.

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Speaker 3: Win I started doing my show. Aaron Burnett went out

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Speaker 3: on maternity leave and Jeff said, I want you to

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Speaker 3: take over for her from maternity leave. So her entire

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Speaker 3: couple months she was off, I filled in at seven

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Speaker 3: o'clock show. It was me and I did my weekend

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Speaker 3: shoe So I was working seven days a week and

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Speaker 3: I didn't mind it.

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Speaker 2: I loved it.

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Speaker 1: Actually, you're doing the mornings, and you're doing and morning shows,

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Speaker 1: which have become so bizarre to me, I know, I

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Speaker 1: said to people, And I love all these people meant

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Speaker 1: I love Katie Cork. But the last time I watched

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Speaker 1: the Today Show was when Katie Cork was on with

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Speaker 1: lour and they did a I guess maybe it was

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Speaker 1: for Halloween. They all dressed up and clothing and they

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Speaker 1: sang diamonds are a Girl's best friend as she's walking

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Speaker 1: down a staircase, a glittering staircase or whatever, and I thought,

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Speaker 1: I'm done. I don't know, I want the news, maybe

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Speaker 1: tell some jokes or whatever. But they turned it into

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Speaker 1: an entertainment show. But mornings it's obviously a different ball game.

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Speaker 1: Even weekends, maybe you're a different ballgame. So what adjustments

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Speaker 1: do you have to make in your style to be

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Speaker 1: on in the evening?

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Speaker 2: Oh? Well, I'm an evening guy.

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Speaker 3: The only reason I did the mornings is because and

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Speaker 3: you told me, you know, when I did the like,

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Speaker 3: she said, no one wants to see you in the morning,

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Speaker 3: And you were right. I'm not a morning person. I'm

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Speaker 3: not very good in the morning. I'm not good on coffee.

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Speaker 3: Caffeine makes me jittery. I don't know what I'm saying

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Speaker 3: or doing. So I did it because my company asked

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Speaker 3: me to do it, and I was being a team player,

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Speaker 3: but it was not a good fit for me. The

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Speaker 3: adjustment is is that you're constantly sleeping, you have.

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Speaker 2: To get up. I'm a night oul.

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Speaker 3: I don't go to go to bed until two or

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Speaker 3: three in the morning, and I'm up at you know,

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Speaker 3: maybe ten right before I would you know, i'd have

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Speaker 3: to wake up when I mean, when I was doing

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Speaker 3: the mornings, I had to wake up at four in

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Speaker 3: the morning, right, I know what it'll be. It was really,

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Speaker 3: really tough. So that's really the adjustment. I'm a cool

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Speaker 3: cat at night. I like it, and I like that

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Speaker 3: that late time slot. Working at night, I do too,

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Speaker 3: and I get my best Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 2: I do movies.

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Speaker 1: And the guy said to me, we're in a black

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Speaker 1: box theater shooting this movie for all these scenes inside

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Speaker 1: this theater for a month in Florida. And he says, so,

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Speaker 1: no windows, know nothing, no light dependent at all. He goes,

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Speaker 1: we can shoot whenever we want. He goes, what time

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Speaker 1: you want to go to work?

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Speaker 2: Love it? And I said none, I'm going to shoot

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Speaker 2: noon to midnight. Yeah, and we did. We shot noon

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Speaker 2: to midnight for four weeks. I was in heaven. I

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Speaker 2: was like man, I'm just getting going.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I like about seven or eight at night, like

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Speaker 3: my best work. I don't wake up that late, but

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Speaker 3: my best work is at night. So having that ten

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Speaker 3: o'clock slot was perfect for me. And then you know,

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Speaker 3: I was on until midnight every night, but that was

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Speaker 3: when I would get that energy.

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Speaker 2: And you're like being solo. Oh, I love the co

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Speaker 2: anchors for a while. It's tough. You didn't like that format.

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Speaker 3: No, I'm a team player, but not in that way.

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Speaker 3: I have my own flow and everybody can't keep up

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Speaker 3: with me, you know.

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Speaker 1: And and doubles tennis, they're not the best partner. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: at your game, and you got to you gotta have

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Speaker 1: a good part of that. You have to have someone

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Speaker 1: who can keep up with you.

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Speaker 3: And you know, I don't mean that in a you know,

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Speaker 3: I'm not diminishing anyone, but someone like a Kara Swisher personal. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: like someone like a Kara Swisher or a Joy Behar

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Speaker 3: or someone they could keep up with me. They get

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Speaker 3: my sense of humor and they don't take anything personally

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Speaker 3: and they can give it or take it as good

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Speaker 3: as they give it, right, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 2: I love that kind of it. They didn't want to

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Speaker 2: demonize or criminalize your moderances. No, because they they under

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Speaker 2: they they their pals and they get me. It's not personal.

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Speaker 3: It's just we're just we're just sitting having a conversation

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Speaker 3: and people say all kinds of things and conversations and

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Speaker 3: it's not personal. It's just your talking. And when you talk,

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Speaker 3: you say things. You go, ah, I don't.

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Speaker 4: Mean that, Okay, all right, right, so I said some shit,

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Speaker 4: that was great, whatever, and you just move on. But

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Speaker 4: you can't do that with everybody, because you know, especially

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Speaker 4: like younger folks, everything is like a personal affront.

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Speaker 1: Well, you walk in on the set of a project,

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Speaker 1: and when you're around young people, I find that there's

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Speaker 1: a potential for certain difficulties. So I've never had any

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Speaker 1: problems with this myself. I never had any I've had

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Speaker 1: other problems obviously, but not that one. And you walk

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Speaker 1: onto the set, especially of a film, and you're there

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Speaker 1: and people they're tents, and you don't realize how tense there.

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Speaker 1: They're scared younger people. You come on and there. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I've made whatever number of movies, I've made one hundred movies,

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Speaker 1: ninety movies, whatever, I take pictures with people now, but

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Speaker 1: I got taught by somebody famous. You put your arm

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Speaker 1: out and they hook their elbow around your elbow, and

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Speaker 1: they go, why do you want to do that? A

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Speaker 1: few of them would say, and I say, I can't

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Speaker 1: put my hand behind your body, and you got it.

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Speaker 1: My hand can't be hidden behind your back in the photogo.

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Speaker 1: All the games you've got to play?

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Speaker 2: Now? Which are which?

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Speaker 5: Was?

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Speaker 2: I'm concerned? No, but you're right about that. You said

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Speaker 2: you've done so many movies. I had been.

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Speaker 3: I think I was doing the afternoons from six about nine,

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Speaker 3: and then I started doing the weekend evenings, and so

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Speaker 3: I've been doing the weekend evenings. I'd been solo, I

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Speaker 3: should say, from about two thousand and nine to twenty

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Speaker 3: twenty three or twenty twenty two, and so I was

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Speaker 3: just used to my own flow and people, you know,

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Speaker 3: were used to me just being me, and so I

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Speaker 3: had been there for quite some time solo anchor.

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Speaker 2: And you know, people come in and they're like they

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Speaker 2: you know, they don't get it.

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Speaker 1: You know, now when you do a show like that

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Speaker 1: for people who don't know, because I find this behind

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Speaker 1: the scenes very interesting. You come in there, you come in.

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Speaker 1: The show was on the air at ten. The big

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Speaker 1: show was on a ten. You did the past two

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Speaker 1: with Chris and then everybody thought that was very entertaining

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Speaker 1: the two of you.

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Speaker 3: It's the biggest compliment that people say about that and

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Speaker 3: about my show. They say that was the last appointment

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Speaker 3: television for the network. Was that handoff and then going

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Speaker 3: on the show.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. But the thing that people don't understand is you

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Speaker 2: get there what time?

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Speaker 3: It would depend if I if I had a pre tape,

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Speaker 3: I would go in earlier. But at the end I

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Speaker 3: moved across the street from the office, so it would

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Speaker 3: take me literally a minute, minute and a half to

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Speaker 3: be on the set because I lived and it was

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Speaker 3: in huts and yards.

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Speaker 2: So I would go to work probably about eight eight thirty.

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Speaker 2: So you're not there at three o'clock writing.

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Speaker 3: No, I'm doing that from home, got it because basically

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Speaker 3: my office is not much further from the set than

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Speaker 3: my home was. But before that, I would probably get

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Speaker 3: to work about six, right And the reason I did

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Speaker 3: that part of it was because of Jeff.

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Speaker 2: Jeff said, why are you working on the show so early?

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Speaker 2: Your show?

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Speaker 3: Why are you guys in the morning meeting the morning

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Speaker 3: meetings at nine in the morning. Your show is twelve

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Speaker 3: hours away, a half a day away. Everything's going to

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Speaker 3: change exactly, So what are you doing? And I found

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Speaker 3: that when I would study for all of this stuff

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Speaker 3: and just study, study, study, and over prepare, and then

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Speaker 3: by the time the show came about at ten o'clock,

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Speaker 3: it would be a whole different show.

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Speaker 2: And I'd say, why the hell did I would I

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Speaker 2: do this? You've got to be more plodet to learn

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Speaker 2: to be nimble.

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Speaker 1: Now you're there doing a show like that. How much

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Speaker 1: do director about technical directors with cameras in a studio?

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Speaker 1: Are there directors, segment producers, writers, who's got your ear

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Speaker 1: in terms of content while you're doing the show?

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Speaker 2: So it's my executive producer? And how many of those

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Speaker 2: did you have when you were on the big show?

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Speaker 3: I had one executive producer who is and then Maria Spanella,

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Speaker 3: and then I had my own personal producer, and then

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Speaker 3: there were segment producers. And so if there was a

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Speaker 3: segment that someone had prepared and they needed to be

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Speaker 3: in the control room, usually they stood there anyways, and

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Speaker 3: so the segment producer would get in my ear. But

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Speaker 3: usually it was the executive producer, but sometimes they would say,

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Speaker 3: you know, I would say it was nineteen times and they'd.

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Speaker 2: Go ninety ninety and I'm going because sometimes you don't

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Speaker 2: realize what you say right.

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Speaker 3: You'll just read something wrong or you just say something wrong,

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Speaker 3: and so they would correct me. But it was mostly

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Speaker 3: the director and the executive producer and mostly the director

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Speaker 3: who would say, Okay, thirty seconds out, ten seconds out

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Speaker 3: camera two, so start on camera two and I'm going

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Speaker 3: to turn you to three. Stand by, you know, the

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Speaker 3: whole thing, three two and go camera one, turn and

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Speaker 3: then you do that that sort of thing, right, And

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Speaker 3: then you know, they would say it yeah, and you'd

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Speaker 3: say you know, and it's fourteen people and they'd say

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Speaker 3: graphic and I'd go, take to look at your screen,

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Speaker 3: that it's up on the screen right now, blah blah

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Speaker 3: blah blah blah, and then you talk about blah and

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Speaker 3: then they'd say on cam and then I'd look back

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Speaker 3: up and go, okay.

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Speaker 2: Then just someone's directing your performance. Yeah, directing. They just

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Speaker 2: just to know where I'm going technically, right, but they're

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Speaker 2: directing your your tone or no.

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Speaker 3: If I was off on something, someone would say something

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Speaker 3: she'd say like, all right, was it up wash your tone?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Or yeah, you're you're dragging a little bit. Are

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Speaker 2: you tired? Whatever you want us to bring?

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Speaker 3: You want us to bring your coffee, diet coke or something, yeah,

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Speaker 3: or I'm gonna send makeup in.

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Speaker 2: You're shiny, but that sort of thing. That's it small small.

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Speaker 1: Now I'm assuming that when lickt comes in, this is

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Speaker 1: just zas Love wants things his way. This is his

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Speaker 1: magiemem it. Now it's going to be my CNN. So

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Speaker 1: Zuker's gone and he brings Licked in. And when Zuker's

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Speaker 1: gonna gone? How much advanced notice did you have the

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Speaker 1: Zuker was leaving? Oh that I mean that was in

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Speaker 1: the news, right, so not much. Did you know when

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Speaker 1: he was going to be gone and someone else was

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Speaker 1: coming in? Who was going to run the company? You

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Speaker 1: didn't know.

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Speaker 2: No, no one, no one. No one gave you any dance.

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Speaker 3: No, it was in the it was in the morning meeting.

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Speaker 3: When it happened. I was in LA and I forget

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Speaker 3: what I was doing. It may have been award season

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Speaker 3: or something.

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Speaker 2: I forget.

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Speaker 3: I was in La doing a project for the network,

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Speaker 3: and I took the Red Eye, and I got home

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Speaker 3: and went to sleep, and I woke up to a

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Speaker 3: lot of text messages.

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Speaker 2: And I was like, wait, what is this. It always

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Speaker 2: happens that way. That happened that way.

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Speaker 3: When when Chris was let go, Chris linked and my

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Speaker 3: executive purser is at don Jeff just resigned in the

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Speaker 3: morning meeting, and I was like, wait what And then

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Speaker 3: he called me and he said I didn't have a

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Speaker 3: chance to tell you whatever, blah blah blah. And you

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Speaker 3: know he called everybody afterwards, but I don't think he

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Speaker 3: really had any notice himself, right, Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Well, I kind of equate him.

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Speaker 1: This is just my opinion, by the way, which is meaningless,

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Speaker 1: but I kind of equate him with Ronnie Meyer when

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Speaker 1: they let Ronnie Meyer go for similar reasons his personal life,

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Speaker 1: and you want to sit there and you want to go, well,

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Speaker 1: I'm running a company now and I'd like this guy

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Speaker 1: to go. And that's my excuse to let him go.

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Speaker 1: And I really was going to bring it another guy

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Speaker 1: because I want my I want to run my CNN,

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Speaker 1: but he's gone, like universal. I think Ronnie Meyer hit

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Speaker 1: the point where he was making like forty million dollars

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Speaker 1: a year, and they were like, no, yeah, we need

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Speaker 1: you to go.

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Speaker 2: Look, I'll let you say that. But you're a smart guy.

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Speaker 3: So but here, you know, Jeff is the last of

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Speaker 3: a TV executive, the celebrity TV executive Mavericks. Right, everyone

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Speaker 3: is so risk averse now they're afraid, you know, they're

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Speaker 3: with the stockholders wanting all that. He really protected us

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Speaker 3: from the overlords, right from the corporate you know overlords.

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Speaker 3: He really did his guts, his guts and he's like,

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Speaker 3: you know, this is journalism. I understand what you do

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Speaker 3: because he did what they did, right. He ran NBC

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Speaker 3: and he understood it. But he's really a journalist at

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Speaker 3: heart because he started at the Today Show and he

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Speaker 3: started in the news president there. He had a good

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Speaker 3: run there, and then he went to run the news

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Speaker 3: division at NBC, and then he entertainment. Then he ran

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Speaker 3: the entire network. So he really and we didn't realize it,

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Speaker 3: you know, until he was gone.

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Speaker 1: When Licked comes, like most executives I have assumed when

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Speaker 1: you're the top tier talent, the show that they come

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Speaker 1: is it like dinners and whining and dining and getting

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Speaker 1: to know each other and everything's war and you don't

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Speaker 1: really know where it's going to go, and then it

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Speaker 1: goes the wrong way.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a little of that. Yeah, there's a little

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Speaker 2: of that. It's polite, it's polite, yeah in the beginning. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and then things changed, right.

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Speaker 1: Well, I mean, I just find that odd because I

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Speaker 1: just feel like I won't name names, but I've known

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Speaker 1: a couple of people who are execs at film studios,

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Speaker 1: especially TV, where the that conveyor belt is moving and

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Speaker 1: they can't press pause. They have a plan which seems

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Speaker 1: to be everybody's plan now. Years ago it was a plan.

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Speaker 1: Now it's everybody's plan, which is, if I can't raise revenue,

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Speaker 1: I got to cut costs. So it's just a lot

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Speaker 1: of firing, a lot of budget cutting.

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Speaker 3: But don't you think to a certain extent that when

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Speaker 3: your job is protected and mentioned in the First Amendment,

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Speaker 3: that there should be some exemption from that whole thing.

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Speaker 3: Like I don't think the news division should be solely

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Speaker 3: or wholly in large part driven by revenue and numbers,

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Speaker 3: numbers and ratings. It shouldn't because you're supposed to give information,

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Speaker 3: you're supposed to hold people who are in power, hold

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Speaker 3: themto account.

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Speaker 1: But you told me that when we were at the

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Speaker 1: book party. I raised my hand, I asked the question.

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Speaker 1: I said, the networks and traditional media, mainstream media, have

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Speaker 1: they lost young people? And you said, they haven't lost,

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Speaker 1: but they're losing. And then you went on to talk

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Speaker 1: about the people who are considered through some research who

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Speaker 1: quoted to being about being the most informed. People get

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Speaker 1: their news from where.

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Speaker 2: They get their news digitally? Right, Yeah, and listen.

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Speaker 3: The older people get their news from, you know, they watch,

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Speaker 3: they sit and they watch cable news all day. They

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Speaker 3: watch six thirty or they you know, they they're watching

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Speaker 3: the morning shows or they're doing that. Younger people are

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Speaker 3: getting their news on TikTok or whatever. But the most

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Speaker 3: informed people are they'll go on digitally. They'll watch something

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Speaker 3: on YouTube, They'll watch whatever, even if they go to

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Speaker 3: you know, Twitter or TikTok or whatever. But then they'll

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Speaker 3: do their research and they are media literate and more

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Speaker 3: media savvy. I find the people who sit in front

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Speaker 3: of the television all day have an unconscious or built

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Speaker 3: in bias because you can tell from whatever network they're watching.

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Speaker 3: But by the time they get to the arguments around

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Speaker 3: the table the panels, they don't know what they actually

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Speaker 3: came there for, what the point of the whole segment was.

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Speaker 2: That's what they conveyed to me.

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Speaker 1: Well, the shows which are moderated shows, which are these

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Speaker 1: s mash pits, and everybody's going at it. I think

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Speaker 1: more and more people have realized now that it's not

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Speaker 1: worth their time. I always say to people, what do

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Speaker 1: I watch? I said, I watch Wolf Blitzer straight. I

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Speaker 1: call them straight, no chaser, right, right, right, it's just

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Speaker 1: like happening now. Just tell me what the stop stories

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Speaker 1: are and then I want to go have dinner with

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Speaker 1: my wife. You know, give me ten fifteen minutes on

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Speaker 1: my couch. I watch The Inn every night. Every night. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: watch Blitzer. I watch MSNBC only when I come home,

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Speaker 1: I watch Blitzer. I go to dinner, I come back

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Speaker 1: and I watch Lawrence o'donald ever.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, every night.

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Speaker 3: I like Lawrence, I like Rachel, I like But I

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Speaker 3: think it's different when you're in primetime, as you know,

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Speaker 3: it's just like when you do you know, in primetime

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Speaker 3: you do sitcoms or whatever. It's different than something that's

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Speaker 3: on during the day, right, And I think that's the

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Speaker 3: same thing with cable news now. I don't believe that.

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Speaker 3: For networks, that's a different thing. You got six thirty

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Speaker 3: and it's straight, no chaser, good evening and we're gonna

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Speaker 3: start in Afghanistan and whatever it is. And then but

436
00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:05,359
Speaker 3: at night, if you're watching cable, it's more of a

437
00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:08,320
Speaker 3: personal experience and it's a longer sort of flow. And

438
00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:11,520
Speaker 3: people they wanted to be appointment television, and they wanted

439
00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:13,719
Speaker 3: to be someone familiar with, someone they trust, someone who

440
00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:16,520
Speaker 3: can actually maybe tell them a little bit how they feel.

441
00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:17,440
Speaker 2: People would say, I.

442
00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:19,200
Speaker 3: Wasn't sure about it, don and I watched you and

443
00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:21,680
Speaker 3: I said, you know what, that guy's right, and I.

444
00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:22,399
Speaker 2: Think that's okay.

445
00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:27,120
Speaker 3: I don't agree with everything, hardly anything that Sean Hannity says,

446
00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:30,520
Speaker 3: but he's perfect for a primetime cable show, right, he's

447
00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:31,240
Speaker 3: and he's a star.

448
00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:33,040
Speaker 2: I don't little O'Reilly.

449
00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:35,600
Speaker 1: We had a great delivery, and he was a real broadcaster.

450
00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:37,400
Speaker 1: I didn't agree with the word he said either.

451
00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:40,440
Speaker 3: I've always said that about Bill O'Reilly. He's a great performer.

452
00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:42,040
Speaker 3: And I would watch him and I would take notes

453
00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:43,719
Speaker 3: and go that guy is good and the same thing,

454
00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:45,480
Speaker 3: and people are gonna, you know, gonna go, oh, my gosh,

455
00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:47,440
Speaker 3: I can't believe he said that. Same thing with Megan Kelly.

456
00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:49,320
Speaker 3: I don't agree with anything she says. She's turned out

457
00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:50,439
Speaker 3: to me the biggest troll.

458
00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:54,040
Speaker 2: And and is she she flipped up. Oh my gosh,

459
00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:56,280
Speaker 2: it's embarrassing. I went to a book party of first

460
00:18:56,320 --> 00:18:57,440
Speaker 2: with my wife, but when.

461
00:18:57,240 --> 00:19:00,200
Speaker 3: She was same, we were at that same party. Yeah,

462
00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:02,800
Speaker 3: on the rooftop of a hotel somewhere. Yeah, But she

463
00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:04,439
Speaker 3: at that time, I think she was on at eight

464
00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:05,800
Speaker 3: or nine o'clock or whatever at night.

465
00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:08,440
Speaker 2: She was perfect for that hour. She's a great performer.

466
00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:10,959
Speaker 3: She comes on and she's energy whatever, and you know,

467
00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:13,800
Speaker 3: the morning Speaking of people being out of position, the

468
00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:16,000
Speaker 3: morning show is not her position, I believe, just like

469
00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:17,960
Speaker 3: it wasn't. I was in position as well. And that's

470
00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:20,800
Speaker 3: the thing about a good media or news executive.

471
00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:22,160
Speaker 2: They know what.

472
00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:25,720
Speaker 3: Positions people should be playing, So you need that sort

473
00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:26,520
Speaker 3: of a personality.

474
00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:29,480
Speaker 2: Same thing with Chris. Chris is a star. He's great

475
00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:31,359
Speaker 2: for cable news at night. Chris Cuomo, he's great for

476
00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:32,800
Speaker 2: cable news at night. I thought I was.

477
00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:35,200
Speaker 3: Great for cable news that night, you know, and people

478
00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:37,400
Speaker 3: wanted to tune in, they wanted to tune into us.

479
00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:40,359
Speaker 3: Rachel Maddow perfect cable news host.

480
00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:44,080
Speaker 1: But I think that people when I watched news, having

481
00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:47,159
Speaker 1: grown up and having had news having a very sacred

482
00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:49,320
Speaker 1: place in my life, it was sacred. The news was

483
00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:51,280
Speaker 1: very important to me. And now when I see the news,

484
00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:54,560
Speaker 1: it's just weird. There's a chemistry. You have to have

485
00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:57,040
Speaker 1: a chemistry with that person, you know, like I used

486
00:19:57,040 --> 00:19:58,919
Speaker 1: to listen to He's a good friend of mine. I

487
00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:02,120
Speaker 1: love Kurt Anderson. And when Kurt had that show Studio

488
00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:03,399
Speaker 1: three sixty on NPO, I.

489
00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:04,920
Speaker 2: Loved that show.

490
00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:08,600
Speaker 1: That was my favorite podcast, along with This American Life

491
00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:09,440
Speaker 1: for Kurt Anderson.

492
00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:11,080
Speaker 3: And you don't feel you have that connection to any

493
00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:12,560
Speaker 3: of the news folks with you.

494
00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:14,160
Speaker 1: I love watching you on TV. I'm not just saying

495
00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:15,800
Speaker 1: that I thought you were great. I mean were you

496
00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:19,199
Speaker 1: had the right chemistry. I mean beyond you being a

497
00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:21,640
Speaker 1: handsome guy and being stylish and being this and that.

498
00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:23,600
Speaker 2: Thank you, but you had a great delivery.

499
00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:25,760
Speaker 1: It was really it was easy to watch you where

500
00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:27,800
Speaker 1: there's people that I watch and I go, well, maybe

501
00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:28,600
Speaker 1: a little less of you.

502
00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:30,400
Speaker 3: But it's the same thing with knowing who's a good

503
00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:32,600
Speaker 3: reporter and who's a good anchor. Very few people can

504
00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:35,199
Speaker 3: do both, and people don't realize it. They don't understand

505
00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:37,800
Speaker 3: that like anchoring a show, it's another world. It's not

506
00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:40,080
Speaker 3: easy and you have to hold someone's attention. But I

507
00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:42,240
Speaker 3: think now in this day and age, people think that, Okay,

508
00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:44,399
Speaker 3: they're a good reporter, so therefore they're a good anchor,

509
00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:46,760
Speaker 3: and I disagree with that. You can have someone who

510
00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:50,200
Speaker 3: can anchor a show who is not necessarily the best

511
00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:53,640
Speaker 3: journalists in the world, but they're interesting. But when there

512
00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:56,840
Speaker 3: are big breaking news stories, then you throw to the

513
00:20:56,880 --> 00:20:58,000
Speaker 3: person who's the good report.

514
00:20:58,040 --> 00:20:59,480
Speaker 2: The YouTube thing is on what time? Now, you're on

515
00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:00,520
Speaker 2: the air? Went I'm on the air?

516
00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:02,919
Speaker 3: Well, it lives forever on YouTube. But I do a

517
00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:05,359
Speaker 3: five o'clock show every day, which was not how I

518
00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:07,920
Speaker 3: envisioned doing it. I do a five o'clock live show

519
00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:09,720
Speaker 3: every day where I just talk to the subscribers and

520
00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:12,639
Speaker 3: talk to them about things that's happening and what they

521
00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:15,480
Speaker 3: should know before they, you know, go home or have dinner.

522
00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:17,840
Speaker 3: But then I just started one at ten am, which

523
00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:20,040
Speaker 3: is sort of a hot topic show where I'm trying

524
00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:23,000
Speaker 3: to get away from the politics, you know, and the

525
00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:24,720
Speaker 3: hard news and do things that are a little lighter.

526
00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:25,520
Speaker 2: But everything in.

527
00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:28,080
Speaker 3: The zeitgeist now is politics. You know, they're eating the

528
00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:31,080
Speaker 3: dogs or eating the cats. That goes over, you know,

529
00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:32,000
Speaker 3: it all spills over.

530
00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:38,240
Speaker 2: Author and anchor Don Lemon.

531
00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:42,639
Speaker 1: If you enjoy conversations with famous broadcasters, check out my

532
00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:45,320
Speaker 1: episode with the legendary Dan Rather.

533
00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:48,760
Speaker 5: When the first faint edge is what we came to

534
00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:51,359
Speaker 5: know is Watergate. You can do merge. I was skeptical

535
00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:54,720
Speaker 5: that it would reach the Oval Office itself. You never

536
00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:57,680
Speaker 5: met anybody who had more respect for the office of

537
00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:00,680
Speaker 5: the Presidency in the United States than I do. It

538
00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:03,199
Speaker 5: was very difficult for me to accept that the president

539
00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:07,040
Speaker 5: himself would be involved in a way. However, as time

540
00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:10,920
Speaker 5: went along, facts begin to first whisper, then they begin

541
00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:13,320
Speaker 5: to speak in full voice, and then the facts begin

542
00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:18,480
Speaker 5: to shout. It isn't just lower level campaign oppertunities, It

543
00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:21,679
Speaker 5: isn't just lower level members of the administration. That this

544
00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:24,200
Speaker 5: probably goes into the Oval Office itself.

545
00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:29,440
Speaker 1: To hear more of my conversation with Dan Rather, go

546
00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:33,359
Speaker 1: to Here's the Thing dot Org. After the break, Don

547
00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:36,640
Speaker 1: Lemon tells us how a tragic event led to him

548
00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:51,480
Speaker 1: rethinking his relationship with God and with his faith. I'm

549
00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:55,320
Speaker 1: Alec Baldwin and you're listening to here's the thing. Don

550
00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:58,359
Speaker 1: Lemon's new book, I Once Was Lost My Search for

551
00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:03,359
Speaker 1: God in America details his very personal examination of his faith.

552
00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:08,600
Speaker 1: But this is not Lemma's first foray in the publishing world.

553
00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:10,320
Speaker 2: I've written three books.

554
00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:12,840
Speaker 3: This is a fire debut at number one New York

555
00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:15,920
Speaker 3: Times during the George Floyd thing when that all happened

556
00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:16,720
Speaker 3: in twenty twenty one.

557
00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:17,840
Speaker 1: And the first thing I said to you when I

558
00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:20,119
Speaker 1: came backstage to just give you a quick carget the

559
00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:21,640
Speaker 1: book party was you should write another book.

560
00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:24,240
Speaker 3: And I'm like, I don't know, man, it's tough, Alec,

561
00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:26,080
Speaker 3: It's so tough, and you don't know.

562
00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:29,720
Speaker 2: You know it was. It was easier in the sense.

563
00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:32,359
Speaker 3: What was easier was the selling of the book, when

564
00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:34,920
Speaker 3: I had that big engine behind me of CNN, where

565
00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:37,040
Speaker 3: I could mention at any moment, you know, it's in

566
00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:38,239
Speaker 3: my book, and by the way, you can go buy

567
00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:39,440
Speaker 3: it and blah blah blah blah blah. Or in the

568
00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:41,040
Speaker 3: commercial break, I would say throw my book up, and

569
00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:42,760
Speaker 3: as we go to commercial and say, by the way,

570
00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:43,920
Speaker 3: my book is on sale and you can get it

571
00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:46,960
Speaker 3: at Barnes and Noble or any book store. They were fine,

572
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:50,080
Speaker 3: that would help them. And so I was able to

573
00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:51,240
Speaker 3: do that with that book. I can't do it with

574
00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:53,040
Speaker 3: this book. I have to sell this book, which is good.

575
00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:53,359
Speaker 5: For you know.

576
00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:53,840
Speaker 2: I don't mind.

577
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:55,960
Speaker 3: I can't do it on YouTube, can Yeah, of course

578
00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:57,399
Speaker 3: I do it on YouTube. I think some people are

579
00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:00,560
Speaker 3: getting sick of it. But writing it is hard. It's

580
00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:02,280
Speaker 3: like you're putting your heart out there. It's like you're

581
00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:04,080
Speaker 3: wearing your heart outside of your body, not in the

582
00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:06,080
Speaker 3: way that you have kids. But you don't know how

583
00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:07,560
Speaker 3: people are going to receive it, if they're going to

584
00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:09,320
Speaker 3: trample on, if they're going to trash you, if it's

585
00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:09,800
Speaker 3: going to sell.

586
00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:11,480
Speaker 2: It's just the whole thing. And you know, it's.

587
00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:13,240
Speaker 1: More personal than anything you might do because it's you

588
00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:15,960
Speaker 1: and I make a movie. Somebody else is directing the movie,

589
00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:18,520
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Now, you come from a

590
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:20,600
Speaker 1: I don't want to say religious so that you use

591
00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:22,640
Speaker 1: the word. You want to describe the family you came

592
00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:23,639
Speaker 1: from in terms of faith.

593
00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:26,920
Speaker 3: Well, I came from a family who was faithful. Let's

594
00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:31,679
Speaker 3: put it that way. They had faith. My mother was

595
00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:35,320
Speaker 3: not as churchy as they say, as my aunt was,

596
00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:38,400
Speaker 3: she's got Alzheimer's now a holy roller. You know, she'd

597
00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:41,119
Speaker 3: never missed a sermon. She was on the usher board

598
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:43,680
Speaker 3: and all of that stuff. My mom was in the choir,

599
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:48,200
Speaker 3: but she wasn't quite as religious as her the rest

600
00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:50,240
Speaker 3: of her family. But my grandmother was as well. You know,

601
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:52,360
Speaker 3: there are members and you pay their dues. I'm sure

602
00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:54,080
Speaker 3: my mom still pays dues for the church. She just

603
00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:56,880
Speaker 3: doesn't go as often as you know one would think.

604
00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:00,720
Speaker 3: But I went to I grew up Baptist. I would

605
00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:03,840
Speaker 3: go to church, and then I'd go to Sunday Bible

606
00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:06,399
Speaker 3: School in the Baptist Church, and then I'd go to

607
00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:09,040
Speaker 3: vacation Bible School in the summer in the Baptist Church.

608
00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:12,280
Speaker 3: And during the week during the school year, I went

609
00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:15,840
Speaker 3: to the Catholic school and we would do Catechism, and

610
00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:19,159
Speaker 3: then we'd have Mass on Friday every Friday, and then

611
00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:21,040
Speaker 3: if it was a special holiday, we'd have Mass then.

612
00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:23,960
Speaker 3: And then in the morning we would line up like

613
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:26,200
Speaker 3: a military school, hand out front of the hands on

614
00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:28,800
Speaker 3: the shoulder, and we'd line up by height, and then

615
00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:31,120
Speaker 3: we'd have the announcement and we'd do the Star spangled

616
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:34,080
Speaker 3: banner and the pledge allegiance, and then we would pray,

617
00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:36,080
Speaker 3: and then we'd go to class in lines like a

618
00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:38,600
Speaker 3: military school. And then you would before you go to

619
00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:40,320
Speaker 3: a recess or whatever. You talked about it in the

620
00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:42,320
Speaker 3: book how much you liked pray. I liked it because

621
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:44,800
Speaker 3: it was because it gave you discipline, and you had

622
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:47,480
Speaker 3: a regimen, and we're part of something. You were part

623
00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:49,760
Speaker 3: of something, and there was a stability there that you had.

624
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:51,600
Speaker 3: You know, Okay, we got to go to the recess.

625
00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:54,040
Speaker 3: We stand up, we pray that we're going to be

626
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:56,480
Speaker 3: safe at recess, and then we all line up and

627
00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:58,320
Speaker 3: we go down to the yard and we have the recess,

628
00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:00,119
Speaker 3: and then we come back. And then before we went

629
00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:02,600
Speaker 3: to lunch, we pray, you know, over our meal, and

630
00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:04,679
Speaker 3: then we come back and we pray whatever. So and

631
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:09,119
Speaker 3: then if an adult enter the class, you'd say good afternoon,

632
00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:12,000
Speaker 3: mister ball Win, and you'd stand up, and we did

633
00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:14,359
Speaker 3: not sit down until mister Baldwin.

634
00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:16,600
Speaker 2: Would say you were told to good afternoon class. You

635
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:18,359
Speaker 2: may be seated, you may be seated. It was a

636
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:20,840
Speaker 2: different world, amazing, right, you know my faith.

637
00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:23,000
Speaker 1: I'm a Catholic and I'm still Catholic, and I go

638
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:26,399
Speaker 1: to church periodically. I go into waves and I go

639
00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:29,920
Speaker 1: to hear that man speak. Yeah, I'm in Los Angeles

640
00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:33,360
Speaker 1: and Father Torchison, who was the head guy there at

641
00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:36,399
Speaker 1: Saint Monica's, I go hear him speak. I go went

642
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:38,399
Speaker 1: to the city and go to Blessed Sacrament on seventy

643
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:40,440
Speaker 1: first Street off of Broadway, and watch this a couple

644
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:43,120
Speaker 1: of guys speak. But my guys in East Tampton who

645
00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:46,280
Speaker 1: came out for the swing mass in the summertime. So

646
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:48,000
Speaker 1: I go down in the summer and I get my

647
00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:49,840
Speaker 1: community and I wait for him as he came out

648
00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:53,040
Speaker 1: of the recessional before everybody else mobbed him, and I

649
00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:53,959
Speaker 1: said to me, he's alone.

650
00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:54,679
Speaker 2: I get him a lot.

651
00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:56,320
Speaker 1: I pulled him aside from the other people with a

652
00:26:56,359 --> 00:26:59,080
Speaker 1: recession and I go, I want to do the confession

653
00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:01,720
Speaker 1: the reconcilly face to face. And he literally he's like

654
00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:04,200
Speaker 1: this kid from Rosedale Queens. She goes, ah, you want

655
00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:07,680
Speaker 1: to do that? He goes, oh please, I go no,

656
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:09,320
Speaker 1: I want to do that. I want to please. I

657
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:11,959
Speaker 1: can't stand that, because are you sorry for what you did?

658
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:13,159
Speaker 1: In the name of the father room the son the

659
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:15,440
Speaker 1: only spit you're absolved. Oh please, don't make me do that.

660
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:17,560
Speaker 1: Like we were pals. That's why we're not in that

661
00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:19,040
Speaker 1: racket anymore. We're friends.

662
00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:21,359
Speaker 2: And I thought, oh God, I can't believe that much

663
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:24,160
Speaker 2: of this church has changed. Change. You want to do that?

664
00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:26,680
Speaker 2: You know, if you want to do that? Please? He said,

665
00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:29,480
Speaker 2: get away. I don't want to talk about that nonsense.

666
00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:31,720
Speaker 1: And I was like, Oh God, who's going to hear

667
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:33,120
Speaker 1: my confession on him?

668
00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:34,000
Speaker 2: See, my friend.

669
00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:37,199
Speaker 3: I still can remember my the priest's voices in my

670
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:39,640
Speaker 3: We have Father Hines, I can remember his big deep

671
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:42,440
Speaker 3: and then we had Father Elwood, and I can just remember.

672
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:44,439
Speaker 3: Their voices are stuck in my head because I was

673
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:46,120
Speaker 3: in Catholic Church so much.

674
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:48,960
Speaker 1: But but what I want to switch to this idea

675
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:51,680
Speaker 1: that obviously with what I've been through in recent couple

676
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:54,200
Speaker 1: of years, this very difficult situation I was dealing with.

677
00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:56,560
Speaker 1: It was painful on a level I can't even give

678
00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:58,919
Speaker 1: words do. I literally can't even describe to people how

679
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:02,320
Speaker 1: much I suffered from that. And you were is the

680
00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:04,600
Speaker 1: summoning of your faith in your adult life and in

681
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:07,000
Speaker 1: recent years when there was tough times for you, did

682
00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:09,199
Speaker 1: you get into digging for help in that direction.

683
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:10,080
Speaker 2: Yes, I did.

684
00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:11,800
Speaker 3: But first of all, I want to say I'm happy

685
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:14,720
Speaker 3: that you that's over, and you know everyone was praying

686
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:16,639
Speaker 3: for you and we all got what was happening.

687
00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:19,760
Speaker 2: So thank you for standing tough. I really appreciate that.

688
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:24,160
Speaker 3: So, yes, I've always been a faithful person, but as

689
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:26,160
Speaker 3: my mother is, I'm not a churchy person, but I'm

690
00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:30,240
Speaker 3: a believer and I've always prayed and hoped and had faith,

691
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:33,399
Speaker 3: and I've had to summon it more often than not.

692
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:36,040
Speaker 3: I don't wear it on my sleeve because I don't

693
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:38,280
Speaker 3: believe in that. I don't believe in pushing my faith

694
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:41,720
Speaker 3: my religion on anyone else, and it's a personal thing

695
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:44,760
Speaker 3: for me. I had a crisis of faith in twenty

696
00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:47,400
Speaker 3: eighteen when my sister died suddenly in an accidental drowning,

697
00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:49,560
Speaker 3: and that was I started thinking about this.

698
00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:50,560
Speaker 2: How old was she?

699
00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:52,680
Speaker 3: She was I think fifty nine and at the time,

700
00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:56,320
Speaker 3: and I started to question God, like why would God

701
00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:58,840
Speaker 3: do that? You know, it's supposed to be a benevolent God,

702
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:00,479
Speaker 3: and I know there are bad things that happened all

703
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:03,960
Speaker 3: the time, and you realize that intellectually until something happens

704
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:06,520
Speaker 3: to you right, and you go, why did this happen

705
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:06,800
Speaker 3: to me?

706
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:08,520
Speaker 2: And so I asked why? Why? Why?

707
00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:10,080
Speaker 3: And I dug deep and then I said why not?

708
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:13,560
Speaker 3: And I tried to figure out, you know, why this

709
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:14,200
Speaker 3: was why you.

710
00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:16,760
Speaker 2: Read that somewhere It wasn't aver quote in the book

711
00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:18,760
Speaker 2: about someone said well why there was a quote in

712
00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:20,760
Speaker 2: the book. But also I'd heard that before.

713
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:24,520
Speaker 3: But also Anderson Cooper's mom, Gloria Benderbilt, said the same thing.

714
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:27,240
Speaker 3: She said, you know, people would go why me, why me?

715
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:28,200
Speaker 2: Why me? Why not me?

716
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:31,320
Speaker 3: And then there was in my family there was a

717
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:34,000
Speaker 3: similar sort of saying why not you so figure out

718
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:36,080
Speaker 3: why it happened to you? Why this is happening to you,

719
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:38,760
Speaker 3: And there's a reason, and maybe it's just to make

720
00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:39,360
Speaker 3: you stronger.

721
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:39,920
Speaker 2: I don't know.

722
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:43,520
Speaker 3: I would much prefer not to go through such things.

723
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:46,520
Speaker 3: And so I started questioning, why would God take my sister.

724
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:48,840
Speaker 3: She has beautiful kids, she has beautiful grandkids. She was

725
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:51,720
Speaker 3: so proud of her grandson, who was a great basketball player,

726
00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:52,600
Speaker 3: a great football player.

727
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:55,760
Speaker 2: She went to every game like what why? Why? Why son?

728
00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:56,520
Speaker 2: That happened?

729
00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:59,480
Speaker 3: And then after I started thinking about this book, and

730
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:02,240
Speaker 3: then the George Floyd thing, happened, and I had pitched

731
00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:04,760
Speaker 3: this George Floyd book and no one wanted to buy it,

732
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:06,800
Speaker 3: not George Floyd, but about racism, and no one wanted

733
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:08,280
Speaker 3: to buy it. And then you know, the thing happened

734
00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:09,320
Speaker 3: and everyone's.

735
00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:10,400
Speaker 2: Like, can you write that book? And I'm like, okay,

736
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:11,880
Speaker 2: So I wrote it. It was number one.

737
00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:14,280
Speaker 3: But I started having this sort of crisis of faith,

738
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 3: and then I started writing the book, and it was

739
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:18,680
Speaker 3: going to be sort of this, you know, a coda

740
00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:22,360
Speaker 3: to the last book, and where I was just going

741
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:25,120
Speaker 3: to you know, move from racism and a little bit

742
00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:27,280
Speaker 3: more into religion. And I was going to interview religious

743
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:30,520
Speaker 3: figures and people folks like you, and talk about their faith.

744
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:32,840
Speaker 3: And then when I left CNN, it became something else.

745
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:35,320
Speaker 3: I think it became a much better and more personal book.

746
00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:38,680
Speaker 3: So yes, it's a long story short, a long story long.

747
00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:41,680
Speaker 3: I have had, you know, points in my life where

748
00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:44,080
Speaker 3: I had to lean on my religion and the Lord,

749
00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:46,120
Speaker 3: and I don't really talk to people about it.

750
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:49,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting when you work in this business. It

751
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:52,200
Speaker 1: could be anywhere a film and television or news of

752
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:55,840
Speaker 1: whatever medium, cable or a streaming network. You're around and

753
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:57,920
Speaker 1: you said, this word a lot in the book cynical.

754
00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:00,000
Speaker 1: You're around a lot of cynical people.

755
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:04,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's our journalists are generally right. Generally you're

756
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:05,200
Speaker 2: right there, of course they are.

757
00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:07,840
Speaker 1: And you sit there and you think, what's it like

758
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:10,400
Speaker 1: to go minute to minute through an experience with a

759
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:12,920
Speaker 1: bunch of cynical people, Like, was there anybody at work

760
00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:15,800
Speaker 1: who was faith based even to some degree you could

761
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:18,320
Speaker 1: talk about it with? Was it all just family and

762
00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:19,680
Speaker 1: close friends and tim?

763
00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:23,880
Speaker 3: It was all just family and family and close friends,

764
00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:26,640
Speaker 3: But mostly it was just me Alan, right, I didn't

765
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:27,160
Speaker 3: I don't know.

766
00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:28,520
Speaker 2: It's an inside job.

767
00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:33,240
Speaker 3: And I remember, you know, things would get so tough

768
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:35,760
Speaker 3: because doing what I did was a very stressful. There's

769
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:38,880
Speaker 3: a high pressure job, high wire job, every night live

770
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:40,480
Speaker 3: and you're like, oh, something comes out of your mouth

771
00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:41,840
Speaker 3: and there's always something Why did you say this?

772
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:42,440
Speaker 2: Why do you do this?

773
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:44,480
Speaker 3: Other people hate you here, other than mad at you here?

774
00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:46,400
Speaker 3: You got to give this response here, and I'm like,

775
00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:48,760
Speaker 3: oh my god, Like why most people just go to

776
00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:50,760
Speaker 3: nine to five job, they go home. It's like you

777
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:54,080
Speaker 3: screwed up up, you know, you round it up, you know, yeah,

778
00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:56,200
Speaker 3: so and then you get over it. And then when

779
00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:59,000
Speaker 3: that would happen to my sister and all the other

780
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:01,200
Speaker 3: things that would happen, I would count. I would say,

781
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:04,160
Speaker 3: you know, God got my steps, one, two, three, and

782
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 3: I would just count my step.

783
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:07,720
Speaker 2: I would take step by step, by step by step, and.

784
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:09,920
Speaker 3: I would count my steps to the studio sometimes, especially

785
00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:13,240
Speaker 3: when my sister died, because you never knew when it

786
00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:15,320
Speaker 3: was going to hit you, and so I would have

787
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:19,360
Speaker 3: to like think about things that go, you know, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, steps. Okay, tonight,

788
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:22,080
Speaker 3: I'm going to talk about you know, Trump and you know,

789
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:24,640
Speaker 3: very fine people on both sides, both sides, and I

790
00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:26,360
Speaker 3: would just have to keep and I would say, Lord,

791
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:28,720
Speaker 3: when I get there, help me see both sides, or

792
00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:30,960
Speaker 3: help me whatever. And then I would just I would

793
00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:32,680
Speaker 3: just pay it and say, okay, you know, get the

794
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:35,880
Speaker 3: IFB on it. And then I'd say, okay, God, here

795
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:37,680
Speaker 3: we go. Just don't let it happen. Don't let me

796
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:40,440
Speaker 3: get sad during the middle of a segment of start

797
00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:42,920
Speaker 3: crying or whatever, and so let me be focused or whatever.

798
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:44,800
Speaker 3: And then you know, the music would come up and

799
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:47,360
Speaker 3: I would just I would say, and when they would

800
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:49,800
Speaker 3: say go, that's when I would snap out of it.

801
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:52,960
Speaker 1: Right with this New Mexico event, I sat there saying

802
00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:55,480
Speaker 1: to myself, what do you want me to do? There

803
00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:57,520
Speaker 1: must be something you want me to do, you want

804
00:32:57,560 --> 00:32:58,880
Speaker 1: me to change, you want me to do.

805
00:32:58,800 --> 00:32:59,320
Speaker 2: This or that.

806
00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:03,400
Speaker 1: I prayed harder for them to dismiss the case prior

807
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:07,040
Speaker 1: on the gun charge, and they denied us. So when

808
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:09,600
Speaker 1: I go to trial and I didn't get my way before,

809
00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:12,760
Speaker 1: and I begged God, I begged, I'll never forget. I

810
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:15,480
Speaker 1: watched the crown and the Queen of England is on

811
00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:17,640
Speaker 1: her knees praying next to her bed, and I go,

812
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:19,840
Speaker 1: if the Queen of England can get on her knees

813
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:22,440
Speaker 1: and pray, why can't I? And I got on my knees.

814
00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:24,840
Speaker 1: And sometimes I'm crying, and I go, Please, what do

815
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:26,520
Speaker 1: you want me to learn from this and do from this?

816
00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:29,800
Speaker 1: I said, please make this case be dismissed on this charge.

817
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:32,800
Speaker 1: And later on it played out the way it played.

818
00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:34,600
Speaker 1: I go, if you take your hands off the steering

819
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:37,120
Speaker 1: wheel and stop white knuckling the steering wheel and trying

820
00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:40,160
Speaker 1: to control and manage everything, maybe something wonderful with results.

821
00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:41,760
Speaker 2: Yes, that was the hand of God.

822
00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:45,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, sometimes you just have to say, you know, as

823
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:47,920
Speaker 3: you said, take your hands off the wheel and just

824
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:49,760
Speaker 3: pray that you're going to be okay.

825
00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:51,160
Speaker 2: What do you want me to do? I'm okay with

826
00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:54,480
Speaker 2: whatever it will is show me. So did you let me?

827
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:56,000
Speaker 2: I'm going to be a journalist. Did it change it?

828
00:33:57,320 --> 00:33:59,800
Speaker 1: That situation changed me a lot in terms of my

829
00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:04,160
Speaker 1: feelings about having my children and getting remarried and having

830
00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:06,040
Speaker 1: so many kids, which is something that I you know,

831
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:08,759
Speaker 1: I kind of knew what I was doing, and people

832
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:11,080
Speaker 1: don't think you do. Then they go, you wake up

833
00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:13,400
Speaker 1: one morning and somebody goes, oh, hypede on a stick,

834
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:14,239
Speaker 1: and oh guess what?

835
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:14,560
Speaker 2: You know?

836
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:17,719
Speaker 1: It's like, it's not all silly, and COVID happened, the

837
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:20,360
Speaker 1: strike happened, and overlapping with the strike was also my

838
00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:22,800
Speaker 1: problem in New Mexico. What it made me do is

839
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:24,799
Speaker 1: people would say, my god, now you can get back

840
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:26,839
Speaker 1: to your old life, and I go, I don't want

841
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:27,960
Speaker 1: to get back to my own lives.

842
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:29,839
Speaker 2: That's what I'm asking you. This is my life. Now,

843
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:32,919
Speaker 2: are you kids? Are you more compassionate? Yes?

844
00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:36,520
Speaker 1: If compassion means everybody I meet, I have to say

845
00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:38,719
Speaker 1: to myself, they're going through somebody. Now I want to

846
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:41,239
Speaker 1: switch the topic or to you and fame and bet carpets.

847
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:43,920
Speaker 3: But I understand how you feel, especially about because people

848
00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:45,960
Speaker 3: when they meet me, they say you're different than what

849
00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:48,600
Speaker 3: I read about, because people often let their enemies and

850
00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:52,080
Speaker 3: their detractors define them, and you know, similarly to you,

851
00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:55,440
Speaker 3: the right wing media hates me, so they write the

852
00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:57,600
Speaker 3: worst shit about me, And then people meet me who

853
00:34:57,640 --> 00:34:59,960
Speaker 3: are conservative and even Trump supporters, and they're like, wa,

854
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:01,880
Speaker 3: you're not at all like what I read about in

855
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:03,440
Speaker 3: the New York Post And you're like, no, I'm not

856
00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:04,200
Speaker 3: that person at all.

857
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:05,920
Speaker 1: Is it funny how you can be somewhere in a

858
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:08,560
Speaker 1: kind of benign setting. You're walking through a park and

859
00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:11,040
Speaker 1: with my kids at some store, and you see people

860
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:13,719
Speaker 1: and you see the way within under a second, with

861
00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:15,840
Speaker 1: in a fraction of a second, you see them regard

862
00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:17,600
Speaker 1: you in a way with their eyes where you who

863
00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:18,759
Speaker 1: know they're maga.

864
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:21,960
Speaker 2: Republicans and they're like, oh god, it's him. Yeah.

865
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:23,760
Speaker 1: And I go walking to them and their kids playing,

866
00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:25,839
Speaker 1: and I go, what's this little one's name? And you

867
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:27,880
Speaker 1: try to charm them and they're totally freaked out and

868
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:30,239
Speaker 1: they're like, my god, I can't normalize you like I

869
00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:32,320
Speaker 1: can't handle it right now. You're an asshole when you

870
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:33,320
Speaker 1: have to remain an asshole.

871
00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:35,200
Speaker 2: I know that. I know that very well.

872
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:41,719
Speaker 1: Journalists and anchor Don Lemon, if you're enjoying this conversation,

873
00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:44,600
Speaker 1: tell a friend and be sure to follow Here's the

874
00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:48,960
Speaker 1: Thing on the iHeartRadio app, Spotify or wherever you get

875
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:52,239
Speaker 1: your podcasts. When we come back. Don Lemon shares his

876
00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:55,640
Speaker 1: thoughts on the cancel deal with Elon Musk and the

877
00:35:55,800 --> 00:36:08,440
Speaker 1: X platform. Following just one broadcast, I'm Alec Baldwin and

878
00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:12,320
Speaker 1: you're listening to Here's the Thing. Don Lemon's recent wedding

879
00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:16,160
Speaker 1: to his partner of eight years, Tim Malone, was heavily

880
00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:19,640
Speaker 1: covered in the press. The pair are often photographed on

881
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:22,839
Speaker 1: the red carpet and at stylish events like New York

882
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:26,120
Speaker 1: Fashion Week. I wanted to know how a serious newsman

883
00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:28,600
Speaker 1: navigates his relationship with fame.

884
00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:32,560
Speaker 3: That is not why I got into the business, It says,

885
00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:34,960
Speaker 3: you know, right, And I didn't get into this business thing.

886
00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:36,160
Speaker 3: I was going to make a lot of money, but

887
00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:38,480
Speaker 3: you became. But I became famous, And you know what,

888
00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:42,960
Speaker 3: I'm enjoying my life. I'm happy. And if that fame

889
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:44,879
Speaker 3: if that comes with it. If I get a better

890
00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:47,759
Speaker 3: table at a restaurant, then so be it. But does

891
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:50,520
Speaker 3: that enjoy it? Yeah, I'm enjoying it. And there are

892
00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:53,480
Speaker 3: so many people who came before me who didn't get

893
00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:57,719
Speaker 3: to do that. And just because I'm a journalist, it

894
00:36:57,760 --> 00:36:59,839
Speaker 3: doesn't mean that I'm not a person. It doesn't mean

895
00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:02,080
Speaker 3: that I don't enjoy getting out and meeting people. Doesn't

896
00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:04,000
Speaker 3: mean that I don't enjoy going on red carpets. Are

897
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:07,040
Speaker 3: going to you know, beautiful events. Why wouldn't I. I'm

898
00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:09,840
Speaker 3: a human being. I think it's okay. Just because you're journalist,

899
00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:12,200
Speaker 3: it doesn't mean that you're not, you know, a full person,

900
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:15,840
Speaker 3: a multi dimensional person, and I am. And so you

901
00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:18,080
Speaker 3: know what, I'm just enjoying my life. I'm grateful that

902
00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:19,759
Speaker 3: i'm here. I don't know how many days are ahead

903
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:21,400
Speaker 3: of me, and while i'm here, I'm going to get

904
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:22,040
Speaker 3: the best out of it.

905
00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:23,719
Speaker 2: The only reason you're on those red carpets is you're

906
00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:27,319
Speaker 2: good looking. That's the I think it's about you. Maybe

907
00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:29,239
Speaker 2: it's I don't know. I think it's both.

908
00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:31,359
Speaker 3: Yes, But I also think I'm there because I am

909
00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:33,520
Speaker 3: enjoying it. If I wasn't enjoying it, I wouldn't be there,

910
00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:36,239
Speaker 3: wouldn't I enjoyed my job. I enjoyed what I you know,

911
00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:38,000
Speaker 3: my profession and what I did, and I think that

912
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:40,680
Speaker 3: that shines through and so I think that that's what

913
00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:43,279
Speaker 3: made me, you know, a star, so to speak, right

914
00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:44,279
Speaker 3: in this business.

915
00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:47,120
Speaker 2: Even those your warmth, No, why would I? That's important.

916
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:50,359
Speaker 1: There's a magic mist that has to exude from you.

917
00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:53,600
Speaker 1: It has to be admitted by you on camera, whether

918
00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:55,759
Speaker 1: it comes through your eyes or anywhere you have to

919
00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:56,680
Speaker 1: convey to your audience.

920
00:37:56,800 --> 00:37:58,840
Speaker 2: There's no place out I'd rather be than here with

921
00:37:58,920 --> 00:37:59,560
Speaker 2: you right right?

922
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:01,759
Speaker 1: Would when you do see that, you go, Hi, I'm

923
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:03,920
Speaker 1: don Lemon, and tonight I want to tell you Abeppa.

924
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:06,399
Speaker 2: They're with you, yes, and you know I couldn't wait.

925
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:08,879
Speaker 3: I would tell them like I couldn't wait to get

926
00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:10,400
Speaker 3: here to tell you this story today.

927
00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:11,279
Speaker 2: So let's go.

928
00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:13,680
Speaker 1: It's like the journalists equivalent of someone walking up to

929
00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:15,080
Speaker 1: and going, would you like to dance?

930
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:19,000
Speaker 2: Charlie? Dance? There's an engagement between you when you're running. Yeah.

931
00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:21,680
Speaker 1: Now, two quick things. One is the election. And I

932
00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:24,279
Speaker 1: believe that everybody who talks and kind of piles on

933
00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:26,680
Speaker 1: online or anywhere about Trump is completely wasting their time.

934
00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:29,000
Speaker 2: What else are there to say about him? Do you

935
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:29,840
Speaker 2: believe in poles?

936
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:33,280
Speaker 3: I believe poles are a snapshot in time. I believe

937
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:36,360
Speaker 3: in polls less so now than I did before. We

938
00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:38,920
Speaker 3: all learned our lesson from twenty sixteen and then twenty

939
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:41,400
Speaker 3: twenty as well. But I think this time is going

940
00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:44,120
Speaker 3: to be surprising. I think it's going to be surprising.

941
00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:46,400
Speaker 3: I think she has a real chance. We had no

942
00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:49,239
Speaker 3: chance with Biden. I admired, I my operation for him,

943
00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:51,200
Speaker 3: but he was old. But I think there's a hidden

944
00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:54,880
Speaker 3: vote for Trump with black men. I think even with

945
00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:57,560
Speaker 3: some women that you know, they still love him. And

946
00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:00,440
Speaker 3: I think with college students, I don't I know, and

947
00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:01,279
Speaker 3: I don't get it either.

948
00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:02,120
Speaker 2: I don't get it, but I.

949
00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:03,879
Speaker 1: Don't get Also, is it there's a person who came

950
00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:06,560
Speaker 1: in who knew nothing about government. He held no office, not

951
00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:10,160
Speaker 1: even a mayoralty, not a governor, or as an executive,

952
00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:12,239
Speaker 1: not a legislator in Congress or a state house. He

953
00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:14,200
Speaker 1: knew nothing about government, and he served in the White

954
00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:15,919
Speaker 1: House for four years and he still doesn't know anything.

955
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:16,720
Speaker 1: So it doesn't know.

956
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:19,200
Speaker 2: You know that people are what they do, we're shocking.

957
00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:21,640
Speaker 2: To me, it shouldn't be shocking. But the folks on

958
00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:22,120
Speaker 2: his side.

959
00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:25,239
Speaker 3: Say she's not qualified and she has no experience, and

960
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:27,520
Speaker 3: I'm like, wait, do you know who you're supporting?

961
00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:31,480
Speaker 2: Am I? Are you insane? She's a senator, vice president,

962
00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:34,719
Speaker 2: she's the attorney general. She's a bright woman. Yeah, she's

963
00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:35,880
Speaker 2: everything he isn't ye?

964
00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:38,840
Speaker 1: All right, Musk, I just want to say with Musk,

965
00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:41,600
Speaker 1: you know, Musk is like we were joking before you

966
00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:43,560
Speaker 1: got in here. The Musk to me is like Howard

967
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:47,520
Speaker 1: Hughes meets Mickey Rooney. He's like this loopy, nutty guy

968
00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:50,560
Speaker 1: that's constantly slamming the door in his hand and screwing

969
00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:54,239
Speaker 1: himself up public relations wise. But he's also an engineering

970
00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:56,160
Speaker 1: genius or whatever, and he's made all this money and

971
00:39:57,000 --> 00:39:58,839
Speaker 1: sold cars, which is one of the most difficult things

972
00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:00,400
Speaker 1: on earth to do, is to create a car and

973
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:03,120
Speaker 1: sell it to this country. When you went in to

974
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:05,279
Speaker 1: talk to him, I mean, obviously you were poised to

975
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:08,040
Speaker 1: work with him or for him at that company and

976
00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:10,640
Speaker 1: do your show on X and that blew up. But

977
00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:13,000
Speaker 1: when you were there, did you say to yourself, he's

978
00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:15,320
Speaker 1: not much different? From a lot of other network executives.

979
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:17,560
Speaker 1: I know you didn't have any trepidation.

980
00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:19,040
Speaker 2: Well, let me say this.

981
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:21,920
Speaker 3: I am in ongoing and pending litigation out of him,

982
00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:23,960
Speaker 3: so I can't really say a lot. But what I

983
00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:27,160
Speaker 3: can say is that I went into this with the

984
00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:29,600
Speaker 3: best of intentions, and at first I did not want

985
00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:32,040
Speaker 3: to do it. It took some cajoling and some convincing,

986
00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:34,959
Speaker 3: and finally I did. I did not work for him.

987
00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:37,400
Speaker 3: He was not my boss. He was not hiring me.

988
00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:40,480
Speaker 3: What I had was a content deal with him, a

989
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:45,800
Speaker 3: distribution deal where they would have a certain exclusive material

990
00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:48,040
Speaker 3: for an amount of time and then it would go everywhere.

991
00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:52,600
Speaker 3: So you know, why not do it? Because I wanted to.

992
00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:55,320
Speaker 3: What I wanted to do was what he and they said,

993
00:40:55,640 --> 00:40:58,480
Speaker 3: to get on the platform and to be a counter

994
00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:01,280
Speaker 3: to all of the sort of right wing conspiracy theorists

995
00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:04,600
Speaker 3: that are out there. And you know that, you know,

996
00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:07,879
Speaker 3: lasted all of half a day. So it didn't work out.

997
00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:09,960
Speaker 3: So I feel, you know, it's awful that it didn't

998
00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:11,520
Speaker 3: work out. It wasn't great for me.

999
00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:12,439
Speaker 2: It wasn't what you hoped.

1000
00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:14,640
Speaker 3: It wasn't what I hoped, But you know, I'd worked

1001
00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:17,920
Speaker 3: with difficult people, but usually that's in within the confines

1002
00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:20,360
Speaker 3: of a business that it does not play out publicly

1003
00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:23,920
Speaker 3: like it did. He's a very consequential person to the world,

1004
00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:28,880
Speaker 3: and he has a very big and powerful platform that

1005
00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:34,480
Speaker 3: can affect lives, livelihood and even people's safety, and one

1006
00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:37,879
Speaker 3: I believe must be and should be careful and more

1007
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:38,839
Speaker 3: responsible with that.

1008
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:40,880
Speaker 2: What do you hope people will take from this book?

1009
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:44,160
Speaker 3: The biggest thing is that I want people to understand

1010
00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:46,360
Speaker 3: that we don't and shouldn't live in a theocracy, but

1011
00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:50,040
Speaker 3: it's going that way. And if you go through difficult periods,

1012
00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:52,839
Speaker 3: as you well know, if you trust the process, which

1013
00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:55,600
Speaker 3: is really called faith. People always say trust the process, right,

1014
00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:58,640
Speaker 3: which is really faith for me is that it's going

1015
00:41:58,680 --> 00:42:03,280
Speaker 3: to be okay. And if it's not okay, then usually

1016
00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:06,000
Speaker 3: we don't know about it, but usually things work out

1017
00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:08,520
Speaker 3: for the best. And I think it's you have to

1018
00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:10,480
Speaker 3: have the right mentality, and you have to have the

1019
00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:12,360
Speaker 3: right faith, and you have to have people around you

1020
00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:16,000
Speaker 3: who love you as you well know, as you are, yeah,

1021
00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:17,640
Speaker 3: and love you for who you are, love you for

1022
00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:20,400
Speaker 3: who you are, and so but I want people to

1023
00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:23,880
Speaker 3: get to know my story. I tell my story alec

1024
00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:28,760
Speaker 3: and America story through the lens of religion and faith

1025
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:31,840
Speaker 3: in this country. And I wrote this book because of

1026
00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:34,879
Speaker 3: my love for the country and my love for God,

1027
00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:38,719
Speaker 3: and I wanted people to have an insight on how

1028
00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:42,600
Speaker 3: it shaped my life and my world. And I fought

1029
00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:46,960
Speaker 3: against the evangelical teachings that sought to marginalize me.

1030
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:49,760
Speaker 1: I want you to read something. You always ask authors

1031
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:50,840
Speaker 1: to read a piece of their book.

1032
00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:54,000
Speaker 3: Okay, this is an excerpt for my book, I Once

1033
00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:57,239
Speaker 3: was lost my search for God in America. These days,

1034
00:42:57,280 --> 00:42:59,640
Speaker 3: a lot of people here and abroad associate the American

1035
00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:04,040
Speaker 3: flag the most bellicose, narrow minded ideology. Because the ones

1036
00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:09,000
Speaker 3: waving that flag loudest and hardest are bellicose, narrow minded ideologues.

1037
00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:12,239
Speaker 3: They wave the flag as a symbol of the America.

1038
00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:15,759
Speaker 3: They envision a country that belongs to them by divine right,

1039
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:19,120
Speaker 3: not the United States we all share. And to drive

1040
00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:23,080
Speaker 3: that point home, they carried the stars and stripes alongside

1041
00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:28,000
Speaker 3: the stars and bars of the Confederacy, a treasonous junta

1042
00:43:28,239 --> 00:43:30,960
Speaker 3: that literally tore the United States apart in a bloody

1043
00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:35,160
Speaker 3: effort to preserve slavery as an economic engine. The term

1044
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:39,440
Speaker 3: Christian nationalism rings out with faux nobility, but it's a

1045
00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:44,480
Speaker 3: wolf in sheep's clothing, white supremacy, cloaked and evangelical religiosity.

1046
00:43:45,560 --> 00:43:47,160
Speaker 1: This section is some of the best writing in the book.

1047
00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:48,560
Speaker 1: I must say now, the other thing I want to

1048
00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:50,800
Speaker 1: say is for me, I want people to take that idea,

1049
00:43:51,440 --> 00:43:54,200
Speaker 1: how we can reframe all that discussion about what it

1050
00:43:54,239 --> 00:43:56,480
Speaker 1: means to be a patriot and be an American Menon,

1051
00:43:56,520 --> 00:43:58,880
Speaker 1: You're one of many people who pursued that in this book.

1052
00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:01,239
Speaker 1: But what I got from this book was your It's

1053
00:44:01,239 --> 00:44:04,839
Speaker 1: a call. It's a call to say to people, we

1054
00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:10,279
Speaker 1: all need to take a break from this world, this loud, cacaphanous,

1055
00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:14,239
Speaker 1: commercialized world, and take a moment to connect with something spiritual.

1056
00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:16,400
Speaker 1: It doesn't have to be a religion, to just connect

1057
00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:19,600
Speaker 1: to something where we can settle ourselves. How can you

1058
00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:23,040
Speaker 1: calm yourself and make yourself the better you on a

1059
00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:25,200
Speaker 1: day to day basis? I mean, I get this from

1060
00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:25,959
Speaker 1: this book book.

1061
00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:29,200
Speaker 3: Do you realize that you answered that question earlier when

1062
00:44:29,239 --> 00:44:32,360
Speaker 3: you said that, no matter how someone treats you or

1063
00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:35,440
Speaker 3: who they are, when you meet someone, you try to

1064
00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:37,680
Speaker 3: approach them as if they're going through something, going through

1065
00:44:37,719 --> 00:44:40,720
Speaker 3: what are they going through? And so as I write

1066
00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:43,840
Speaker 3: and here, I believe that what's important to convey is

1067
00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:47,400
Speaker 3: that we keep trying to Most people keep trying to

1068
00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:50,520
Speaker 3: find look at, you know, create God in their own image,

1069
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:54,360
Speaker 3: when we should be looking for God's image and other people.

1070
00:44:55,239 --> 00:44:58,000
Speaker 3: And as long as you do that, I think that's

1071
00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:00,719
Speaker 3: the answer. That's how you settle yourself. You're talking about

1072
00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:05,319
Speaker 3: this about patriotism. I say in this book that as

1073
00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:09,600
Speaker 3: a black man, I have a complicated relationship with a flag,

1074
00:45:10,120 --> 00:45:12,719
Speaker 3: and as a gay man, I have a complicated relationship

1075
00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:16,000
Speaker 3: with a Bible. But I was able to overcome that

1076
00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:19,960
Speaker 3: by using critical thinking and trying to find love in

1077
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:23,600
Speaker 3: my fellow man rather than judging people and trying to

1078
00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:24,960
Speaker 3: create God in my own image.

1079
00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:27,719
Speaker 1: You think you have your doubts about everybody comes out

1080
00:45:27,719 --> 00:45:29,200
Speaker 1: of It's like having a baby. You write a book

1081
00:45:29,239 --> 00:45:30,799
Speaker 1: and when it's done, you're like, oh, I'm never doing that.

1082
00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:33,640
Speaker 1: But the thing is that you write these books because

1083
00:45:33,680 --> 00:45:35,880
Speaker 1: I have a theory which is that these are bricks.

1084
00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:38,880
Speaker 1: These are bricks, and this is one of your bricks

1085
00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:42,440
Speaker 1: that you're building a library, a world library. These are bricks.

1086
00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:45,000
Speaker 1: I have a theory where when the aliens come and

1087
00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:47,320
Speaker 1: take over and destroy this world, they're going to erase

1088
00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:50,400
Speaker 1: every tape in every CD and every DVD that's just scarbage,

1089
00:45:50,560 --> 00:45:51,960
Speaker 1: and they're gonna pick up a book and they go, now,

1090
00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:54,399
Speaker 1: what's this and they're going to want to go there's

1091
00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:57,120
Speaker 1: more thoughtful, This is more you, more of your heart

1092
00:45:57,200 --> 00:46:00,000
Speaker 1: is in this. I mean, your work in television is exemplary.

1093
00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:02,080
Speaker 1: I mean I don't want you to give up writing books.

1094
00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:04,080
Speaker 2: Thank you, Alec. I think you're right.

1095
00:46:04,120 --> 00:46:06,719
Speaker 3: It's like we have all of these photographs in our

1096
00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:08,960
Speaker 3: cell phones, and then where do they go when we're

1097
00:46:08,960 --> 00:46:10,600
Speaker 3: not here? When I go to your house, right, your

1098
00:46:10,600 --> 00:46:13,040
Speaker 3: family's there, you're there, but I'm looking at the pictures

1099
00:46:13,040 --> 00:46:14,360
Speaker 3: on the wall and I go around and look and

1100
00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:16,200
Speaker 3: where's this from? Where's this moment from? But no one

1101
00:46:16,239 --> 00:46:18,520
Speaker 3: goes into your phone and does that. And that's the

1102
00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:21,440
Speaker 3: same thing that you're saying about the books and erasing

1103
00:46:21,520 --> 00:46:23,200
Speaker 3: things that are digital, because.

1104
00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:29,680
Speaker 1: Throughout the moment, yeah, thank you, thank you, My thanks

1105
00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:32,960
Speaker 1: to Don Lemon. Here's the Thing is recorded at CDM

1106
00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:36,160
Speaker 1: Studios in New York City. This episode was produced by

1107
00:46:36,239 --> 00:46:40,520
Speaker 1: Kathleen russo Zach MacNeice and Maureen Hobin. Our engineer is

1108
00:46:40,520 --> 00:46:45,040
Speaker 1: Frank Imperial. Our social media manager is Danielle Gingrich. I'm

1109
00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:47,440
Speaker 1: Alec Baldwin. Here's the thing that is brought to you

1110
00:46:47,520 --> 00:47:05,279
Speaker 1: by iHeart Radio