WEBVTT - Missing Pieces PT 2 0:00:03.680 --> 0:00:05.000 I'm Kate Winkler Dawson. 0:00:05.120 --> 0:00:07.960 I'm a journalist who's spent the last twenty five years 0:00:08.000 --> 0:00:09.559 writing about true crime. 0:00:09.800 --> 0:00:12.800 And I'm Paul Hols, a retired cold case investigator who's 0:00:12.840 --> 0:00:16.400 worked some of America's most complicated cases and solve them. 0:00:16.440 --> 0:00:19.799 Each week, I present Paul with one of history's most 0:00:19.840 --> 0:00:21.720 compelling true crimes. 0:00:21.400 --> 0:00:24.239 And I weigh in using modern forensic techniques to bring 0:00:24.320 --> 0:00:26.040 new insights to old mysteries. 0:00:26.440 --> 0:00:31.639 Together, using our individual expertise, we're examining historical true crime 0:00:31.720 --> 0:00:34.360 cases through a twenty first century lens. 0:00:34.600 --> 0:00:37.800 Some are solved and some are cold, very cold. 0:00:38.240 --> 0:01:00.240 This is buried Bones. 0:01:02.040 --> 0:01:04.040 Hey Paul, Hey Kate, how are you? 0:01:04.520 --> 0:01:07.760 I'm fine because I know everything about this story, and 0:01:07.800 --> 0:01:11.320 you don't know anything about this story, and I know 0:01:11.400 --> 0:01:13.000 you've been thinking about it, haven't you. 0:01:13.520 --> 0:01:17.600 Well, yeah, well it's so unusual because walking down this 0:01:17.800 --> 0:01:21.520 John an Evelyn relationship and John ends up dead and 0:01:21.720 --> 0:01:25.360 partially dismembered, and you're thinking, Okay, you know they took 0:01:25.360 --> 0:01:27.880 care of a problem. But then you tell me there's 0:01:27.920 --> 0:01:30.960 another body in a suitcase in Evelyn's residence, And now 0:01:31.040 --> 0:01:34.479 I'm I'm extraordinarily curious as to where this is going 0:01:34.520 --> 0:01:34.720 to go. 0:01:35.360 --> 0:01:38.280 I will say this part of the story surprised me 0:01:38.360 --> 0:01:40.400 a little bit. So let me go back just in 0:01:40.400 --> 0:01:42.920 case people have forgotten the details of the story, which 0:01:42.920 --> 0:01:45.240 I cannot imagine you have, but you might have. So 0:01:45.400 --> 0:01:49.120 we are in Ontario, Canada. We are in Hamilton, which 0:01:49.160 --> 0:01:53.279 is a medium sized city. Nineteen forty six, mid March, 0:01:53.920 --> 0:01:58.440 Torso is found partially dressed, and it turns out to 0:01:58.440 --> 0:02:01.840 be a man named John Dick. He was a streetcar 0:02:02.080 --> 0:02:05.919 driver for a transportation agency in the city. He worked 0:02:05.960 --> 0:02:08.480 it sounds like near or with his father in law, 0:02:08.480 --> 0:02:14.600 whose name is Donald, and Donald's daughter is John's wife, 0:02:14.680 --> 0:02:18.040 and her name is Evelyn. Certainly they had different approaches 0:02:18.080 --> 0:02:22.760 to marriage because she admitted that she's been cheating on 0:02:22.840 --> 0:02:26.839 him before, during, and after marriage. That their marriage only 0:02:26.919 --> 0:02:29.920 lasted a few months. They had a quick romance, a 0:02:29.960 --> 0:02:32.840 quick engagement, a quick wedding, and then a quick ending. 0:02:32.880 --> 0:02:35.400 After three months, he moved out into his cousin's house 0:02:36.080 --> 0:02:38.880 and Evelyn took up with a young man a couple 0:02:38.880 --> 0:02:42.640 of years older than her, named Bill. And now the 0:02:42.680 --> 0:02:46.880 police want to know about everything that's happening in this house. 0:02:47.240 --> 0:02:49.880 She had a car, a packer that had blood in it. 0:02:49.960 --> 0:02:53.400 That was Type O, which was John's type. There are 0:02:53.520 --> 0:02:58.920 bone fragments and teeth pieces in ashes outside of their house. 0:02:59.440 --> 0:03:04.160 The police have now ascended the staircase to the attic 0:03:04.360 --> 0:03:07.160 and have found a suitcase that has a body in it. 0:03:07.200 --> 0:03:11.440 And that's where I left off with you, because we 0:03:11.440 --> 0:03:14.320 weren't sure before we get to that other body. We 0:03:14.320 --> 0:03:17.560 weren't sure about the father in law's involvement. Maybe the 0:03:17.560 --> 0:03:21.320 mother in law's involved too. We know that John threatened 0:03:21.919 --> 0:03:26.880 Evelyn's father, Donald by exposing that Donald has been feeling 0:03:27.120 --> 0:03:30.239 I mean, in today's money upwards of two million dollars 0:03:30.720 --> 0:03:34.440 from this city department, which was very serious. So now 0:03:34.480 --> 0:03:38.240 you've got somebody who's been threatened and he's very clearly 0:03:38.720 --> 0:03:41.560 has body parts at this location. They're obviously involved in 0:03:41.640 --> 0:03:45.360 some way. The question is how involved is Evelyn? Is 0:03:45.400 --> 0:03:48.920 she just covering it up or was she directly involved? 0:03:49.080 --> 0:03:52.720 Doesn't matter? I think it will matter how involved she was. 0:03:53.320 --> 0:03:54.840 Oh, it absolutely does matter. 0:03:55.000 --> 0:03:57.000 And you know, I think one of the big questions 0:03:57.520 --> 0:04:00.640 with the second body in the suitcase is who has 0:04:00.720 --> 0:04:05.040 access to this location? You know, is this something where 0:04:05.080 --> 0:04:08.400 people like Donald the father can freely come and go. 0:04:09.120 --> 0:04:12.960 I completely forgot about Bill, you know, this new boyfriend 0:04:12.960 --> 0:04:18.000 of hers, you know, and what is his potential involvement 0:04:18.279 --> 0:04:19.680 in John's homicide? 0:04:20.360 --> 0:04:23.840 And then who is the second body is this? You know? 0:04:23.960 --> 0:04:26.960 On one hand, maybe this is all wrapped around Donald 0:04:27.040 --> 0:04:31.800 trying to protect his financial interests with this this I'm 0:04:31.800 --> 0:04:35.480 assuming an embezzlement type scheme out of the railway. 0:04:36.640 --> 0:04:39.400 Or do we have some sort of predator you do? 0:04:39.440 --> 0:04:41.960 We have this female serial killer on the loose, So 0:04:42.040 --> 0:04:44.200 I'm very curious to see how this progresses. 0:04:44.560 --> 0:04:48.440 Yep. And in the check box of where we feel 0:04:48.440 --> 0:04:53.680 about Evelyn and Evelyn's involvement in anything criminal other than 0:04:54.000 --> 0:04:56.760 being at a house, and it's seemingly covering up this 0:04:56.920 --> 0:05:01.000 you know crime. So far, the police have said, well, 0:05:01.040 --> 0:05:04.039 you know, they held her on vagrancy charges, which, just 0:05:04.120 --> 0:05:08.160 as a little explainer, the vacrancy charges had been everything 0:05:08.279 --> 0:05:13.240 from sex work to being homeless to you know, I'm loitering. 0:05:13.320 --> 0:05:14.640 I mean, it was like a catch all, and I 0:05:14.640 --> 0:05:16.359 don't know if it's still like that now. I know 0:05:16.440 --> 0:05:19.600 that vacrancy has been under fire, that sort of you 0:05:19.640 --> 0:05:22.840 cannot arrest somebody simply for vagrancy. Is that right? At 0:05:22.839 --> 0:05:23.400 this point? 0:05:23.560 --> 0:05:27.840 I think the equivalent statute that I'm aware of out 0:05:27.880 --> 0:05:31.920 of California is, you know this six forty seven PC, 0:05:32.040 --> 0:05:36.479 which has all sorts of those subdivisions like sex work, 0:05:37.120 --> 0:05:41.360 the drunken public. You know, there's various subcategories under six 0:05:41.560 --> 0:05:47.279 forty seven. It sounds like this vagrancy statute up there 0:05:47.480 --> 0:05:48.680 in Canada. 0:05:49.200 --> 0:05:52.359 It's a big catch all, is my understanding. Yeah, But 0:05:52.360 --> 0:05:54.880 they're holding her on these charges, that's why they're you know, 0:05:55.000 --> 0:05:58.279 then going in and looking through the attic, they find 0:05:58.560 --> 0:06:03.839 the suitcase and they open it up and inside they 0:06:04.120 --> 0:06:05.760 find a baby. 0:06:06.120 --> 0:06:07.880 Oh that's not where I thought this was. 0:06:07.880 --> 0:06:10.640 Going, I know. So remember I told you she had 0:06:10.680 --> 0:06:13.160 a series of kids. There was a stillborn baby. There 0:06:13.200 --> 0:06:16.160 was a girl who's clearly alive, the one that she 0:06:16.200 --> 0:06:18.119 said cut her face, and that's where all the blood 0:06:18.160 --> 0:06:23.039 came from. This is Peter. And when Peter left the hospital, 0:06:23.240 --> 0:06:25.719 which was this was just a year and a half 0:06:25.760 --> 0:06:29.000 to two years ago, the year before she met John. 0:06:29.200 --> 0:06:32.000 So John is not the father. When she left the 0:06:32.040 --> 0:06:34.520 hospital with Peter, he was ten days old and he 0:06:34.560 --> 0:06:38.760 was healthy. She said that she took him to an 0:06:38.800 --> 0:06:44.760 adoption agency. And obviously she didn't now what the pathologist says, 0:06:44.839 --> 0:06:47.000 and I wish I had more details about this. What 0:06:47.040 --> 0:06:50.440 the pathologist said was they believe that Peter had been strangled, 0:06:50.800 --> 0:06:54.280 and he had been encased in cement and then put 0:06:54.320 --> 0:06:57.600 into this suitcase, and he had been up in the attic. 0:06:57.800 --> 0:07:01.800 I'm assuming John didn't know about this for you know, 0:07:01.960 --> 0:07:05.479 two years. Sure, so they're surprised, to say the least. 0:07:05.760 --> 0:07:09.800 But it also speaks volumes about Evelyn. Assuming Evelyn is 0:07:09.800 --> 0:07:14.720 the one that killed Peter, She's very willing to resort 0:07:14.920 --> 0:07:19.280 to homicidal violence to get rid of somebody that is 0:07:19.360 --> 0:07:22.240 cramping what I'm going to assume is cramping her lifestyle, 0:07:22.560 --> 0:07:25.440 extrapolating that out to John, you know, And then the 0:07:25.440 --> 0:07:28.960 big question is is that who else helped Evelyn? Did 0:07:29.000 --> 0:07:32.640 anybody else help Evelyn? We know Evelyn is involved in 0:07:32.720 --> 0:07:35.920 aspects of John's homicide. She's the one that is getting 0:07:35.960 --> 0:07:41.360 that packered that car from the auto place and then 0:07:41.400 --> 0:07:44.040 returning that car, you know, so, and that car has 0:07:44.120 --> 0:07:48.400 obviously been used to transport John's body to dispose of 0:07:48.400 --> 0:07:50.280 the remains. And whether or not John is killed in 0:07:50.320 --> 0:07:52.520 that car, he's cut up in that car. 0:07:52.880 --> 0:07:54.400 Who knows at this point. 0:07:55.120 --> 0:07:59.000 So Evelyn is involved, but to what extent is she 0:07:59.520 --> 0:08:02.760 the killer? Did somebody else kill John? And then Evelyn 0:08:03.200 --> 0:08:06.680 helped dispose of the body, maybe even helped with the dismemberment. 0:08:07.000 --> 0:08:10.240 Right now, we don't have any information, but you throw Peter. 0:08:10.120 --> 0:08:10.840 Into the mix. 0:08:11.360 --> 0:08:14.960 In all likelihood, Evelyn is the one who strangled this 0:08:15.320 --> 0:08:19.200 ten day old infant and then try to hide that 0:08:19.280 --> 0:08:24.200 body with the cement. But again sloppy. Why is that 0:08:24.280 --> 0:08:28.920 body still inside the residence inside a suitcase. There's so 0:08:29.080 --> 0:08:33.720 many better ways to go about disposing of that body than. 0:08:33.600 --> 0:08:36.880 That process that nobody had found it true, with the 0:08:36.960 --> 0:08:39.360 exception of you know, of course, her being under suspicion 0:08:39.360 --> 0:08:41.240 for murdering her husband. And then they go up there 0:08:41.240 --> 0:08:45.440 and start looking around, and I don't know how much 0:08:45.800 --> 0:08:47.920 her parents know. I do want to go back to 0:08:48.360 --> 0:08:52.120 John because they've searched the house, they find this body. 0:08:52.160 --> 0:08:55.880 They're stunned by the discovery of this infant baby, and 0:08:55.920 --> 0:08:58.679 then of course the bone fragments and the teeth of John. 0:08:58.920 --> 0:09:00.760 So then they say, we need to get the hell 0:09:00.800 --> 0:09:05.480 over to Donald and Alexandra's house. So Evelyn's parents big 0:09:05.520 --> 0:09:08.240 search and this is what they find, and maybe this 0:09:08.280 --> 0:09:11.440 will help you figure out the order of things, because 0:09:11.480 --> 0:09:14.439 right now I'm curious about the order of events. They 0:09:14.480 --> 0:09:17.520 find a pair of John shoes in the basement which 0:09:17.520 --> 0:09:21.440 are blood stained, and there is also a large butcher 0:09:21.520 --> 0:09:24.600 knife and an axe, neither of which seemed to have 0:09:24.640 --> 0:09:26.880 blood on him, you know, according to the media, but 0:09:27.120 --> 0:09:30.480 who knows. They also find a thirty two caliber revolver 0:09:30.960 --> 0:09:33.880 that a ballistic expert would later say could have caused 0:09:33.880 --> 0:09:36.400 the gunshot wounds. Remember, we don't have casings or bullets 0:09:36.480 --> 0:09:39.520 or anything on his body. Does that make sense? Can 0:09:40.000 --> 0:09:42.600 they kind of eyeball that and say, wow, this looks 0:09:42.600 --> 0:09:44.600 like this kind of a bullet could have grazed his 0:09:44.679 --> 0:09:46.480 body in this way, so it was probably a thirty 0:09:46.640 --> 0:09:48.160 That doesn't seem like hard evidence to me. 0:09:48.920 --> 0:09:52.160 No, I can't really see where they could draw any 0:09:52.200 --> 0:09:55.360 type of conclusion. You know, of course, a larger caliber 0:09:55.400 --> 0:10:00.560 bullet could potentially leave a larger grazed wound. Dealing with 0:10:00.600 --> 0:10:04.200 such an elastic surface in terms of the skin, there's 0:10:04.360 --> 0:10:09.280 so many variables at play unless there's something just significantly 0:10:09.400 --> 0:10:12.120 unusual that I can't think about. I think all they 0:10:12.120 --> 0:10:15.439 could say is is that these appear consistent with the 0:10:15.760 --> 0:10:19.640 Gray's wounds from bullets, and there's no way you can 0:10:19.720 --> 0:10:24.400 tie a gun or a caliber of weapon to that. 0:10:24.960 --> 0:10:27.479 So I think they overstretched on that conclusion. 0:10:27.800 --> 0:10:30.040 I mean, at least it just shows that that Donald 0:10:30.080 --> 0:10:36.079 has a gun. You know it's there. Yeah, So they 0:10:36.160 --> 0:10:38.680 also find I thought you'd appreciate this. They also find 0:10:38.720 --> 0:10:42.559 a magazine called Famous Detective Stories. I think this is 0:10:42.600 --> 0:10:46.120 different from the true detective trash stuff we talked about before, 0:10:46.640 --> 0:10:51.280 but still there is an article that they has been 0:10:51.360 --> 0:10:55.000 here you're marked. That's how to dispose of a corpse 0:10:55.000 --> 0:10:58.440 through incineration one oh one, how to do it. I 0:10:58.440 --> 0:11:00.640 don't want to blame these magazines. I think it's sort 0:11:00.640 --> 0:11:03.120 of silly. But at the same time, you know, we're 0:11:03.120 --> 0:11:06.160 not talking about crime porn here. We're talking about how 0:11:06.200 --> 0:11:07.880 to on how to get rid of a body. So 0:11:07.920 --> 0:11:10.320 it sounds like Donald was doing some research. If we 0:11:10.360 --> 0:11:12.079 think that this is connected. 0:11:11.960 --> 0:11:14.520 For sure, you know we see this today. There's reasons 0:11:14.520 --> 0:11:19.440 why suspects computers and phones and tablets are confiscated during 0:11:19.440 --> 0:11:23.600 an investigation and then searched underneath a warrant to see, well, 0:11:23.600 --> 0:11:27.079 what are they looking at and what are they researching 0:11:27.200 --> 0:11:30.240 leading up to the you know, the timeframe of a 0:11:30.280 --> 0:11:34.320 crime being committed, and oftentimes, as I mentioned before, you know, 0:11:34.600 --> 0:11:38.000 most of these offenders have never killed before, and so 0:11:38.240 --> 0:11:42.920 now they're trying to find information on how to do it. 0:11:43.600 --> 0:11:47.360 And it's just you know, here we're talking nineteen forty six. 0:11:47.440 --> 0:11:50.520 You've got the paper magazine that has an article that 0:11:51.000 --> 0:11:55.560 just happens to fit with how John's. Part of John's 0:11:55.559 --> 0:11:56.640 body was disposed of. 0:11:57.040 --> 0:11:59.679 Well, they go back also and continue to do searching 0:11:59.720 --> 0:12:01.960 of work the torso was found, because they're hoping to 0:12:02.000 --> 0:12:05.839 find more information about whomever this person is who dumped 0:12:05.840 --> 0:12:09.080 the torso in the rural area. And they find a 0:12:09.120 --> 0:12:13.199 striped shirt that's found in the woods and it's identified 0:12:13.240 --> 0:12:16.240 as the one that John was last seen wearing. The 0:12:16.320 --> 0:12:19.560 shirt was completely buttoned up as it would have been 0:12:19.800 --> 0:12:22.360 when it was worn, and both arms of the shirt 0:12:22.360 --> 0:12:25.840 were cut off and the shirt was stained with blood. 0:12:26.480 --> 0:12:29.720 I can't even picture what that means. So what happened 0:12:29.960 --> 0:12:32.080 that you can tell so far? You know, the shoes, 0:12:32.360 --> 0:12:34.679 there's blood, there's a butcher knife at Donald's house, at 0:12:34.679 --> 0:12:38.360 her parents' house, and then the incineration. It sounds like 0:12:38.440 --> 0:12:41.600 happened at their house, at Evelyn and John's house. 0:12:41.440 --> 0:12:46.520 Right, Yeah, Well, and it appears that John is killed 0:12:47.200 --> 0:12:50.280 and in all likelihood, like I talked about before, it 0:12:50.360 --> 0:12:53.240 probably a gunshot wound to the head, and that can't 0:12:53.240 --> 0:12:56.680 be proven because his head is gone and presumably incinerated. 0:12:57.480 --> 0:13:00.880 But it does not appear that whoever. 0:13:00.640 --> 0:13:04.320 Is cutting up John is taking the time to take 0:13:04.320 --> 0:13:07.840 the clothes off. You know, they're literally just cutting his 0:13:08.000 --> 0:13:12.480 arms off, you know, sleeves and all. Now, the pathologists 0:13:12.520 --> 0:13:16.240 should be able to determine from the cut ends of 0:13:16.360 --> 0:13:20.000 the Let's say that the humorous on both arms, you 0:13:20.000 --> 0:13:22.280 know what type of tool was used. 0:13:22.679 --> 0:13:24.720 Was a saw used, you. 0:13:24.760 --> 0:13:26.680 Know, based on the tool marks that are present in 0:13:26.679 --> 0:13:29.199 the end of the bone, or is it more consistent 0:13:29.360 --> 0:13:33.800 with the axe. And that's not necessarily an easy thing. 0:13:34.120 --> 0:13:36.679 You know, you have to take multiple swings with the 0:13:36.720 --> 0:13:38.840 axe in order to be able to hack through the 0:13:38.960 --> 0:13:41.280 say the upper upper arm, and there's a good chance 0:13:41.320 --> 0:13:42.800 you're going to miss and you're probably going to hit 0:13:42.840 --> 0:13:45.079 part of the Torso doesn't sound like you have any 0:13:45.120 --> 0:13:47.920 information in terms of the pathologists rendering an opinion on 0:13:47.960 --> 0:13:50.760 the type of tool marks present on the bone ends. 0:13:51.080 --> 0:13:53.640 No, no, And you know, like they said that the 0:13:53.679 --> 0:13:56.560 axe and the other weapon that they found, it didn't 0:13:56.559 --> 0:13:58.319 appear to have blood. I'm sure it did, they just 0:13:58.360 --> 0:14:00.840 couldn't see it. Yeah, So what I mean, maybe not, 0:14:00.880 --> 0:14:01.559 I don't know what. 0:14:01.720 --> 0:14:04.679 All depends on how how well the tool has been cleaned, 0:14:05.080 --> 0:14:07.600 how bloody it got in the first place. You are 0:14:07.640 --> 0:14:11.600 dealing with the dead body. So now the heart is 0:14:11.640 --> 0:14:14.800 not pumping. You hack through these long bones and the 0:14:14.960 --> 0:14:17.720 arms and the legs. I mean, there is going to 0:14:17.800 --> 0:14:22.240 be blood that seeps out, but it's not gushing out 0:14:22.280 --> 0:14:25.880 because there's no pump present. The heart is done. So 0:14:26.440 --> 0:14:29.080 you know, it's possible that, let's say that if this 0:14:29.160 --> 0:14:31.680 axe or this butcher knife had been used, you know, 0:14:31.920 --> 0:14:35.360 blood staining likely would be present, but it may not 0:14:35.440 --> 0:14:38.280 be present where now it's seeping down in between the 0:14:38.960 --> 0:14:42.280 blade and the handle and all that they just cleaned 0:14:42.280 --> 0:14:42.680 it up. 0:14:42.920 --> 0:14:47.840 Okay, well, so far this seems pretty damning. Is this circumstantial? 0:14:47.960 --> 0:14:50.080 I mean, how would you label this case so far? 0:14:50.240 --> 0:14:53.720 Against You've got Donald and you've got Evelyn. We don't 0:14:53.720 --> 0:14:56.800 know anything about Bill just yet, and then we don't 0:14:56.840 --> 0:14:58.760 know about them all Alexandra. 0:14:58.720 --> 0:15:02.600 Well, there's evidence. I will tell you from a physical 0:15:02.600 --> 0:15:08.200 evidence standpoint, it is a strong case that these individuals 0:15:08.680 --> 0:15:12.120 are involved. What you don't have is who's doing what 0:15:13.120 --> 0:15:17.800 right And so this is where interviewing and it sounds 0:15:17.880 --> 0:15:21.560 like if you've got parts of the crime scene at 0:15:21.640 --> 0:15:25.840 Donald's house and parts at Evelyn's house, sounds like, well, 0:15:25.880 --> 0:15:30.760 we have multiple people involved, and you know, you think 0:15:30.960 --> 0:15:34.080 father daughter may be very loyal to each other. 0:15:34.440 --> 0:15:34.880 Maybe not. 0:15:35.520 --> 0:15:38.400 You know, you have to kind of play one against 0:15:38.440 --> 0:15:40.640 the other in terms of what their statements are and 0:15:41.000 --> 0:15:43.600 the jeopardy each one is subjected to. But then is 0:15:43.600 --> 0:15:45.960 there a third person? And again I go back to 0:15:46.040 --> 0:15:50.920 this new lover of Evelyn's, this Bill Evelyn sounds like 0:15:50.960 --> 0:15:53.600 she's somebody who would be willing to seduce a man, 0:15:53.920 --> 0:15:56.320 to get that man to commit a crime for her, 0:15:56.920 --> 0:16:00.320 and then probably eliminate that man as a witness after 0:16:00.560 --> 0:16:02.280 let's say the homicide of John is done. 0:16:03.680 --> 0:16:06.640 Let me tell you their theory first, just about the crime, 0:16:06.840 --> 0:16:10.680 and then I'll tell you about arrests. So I think 0:16:10.680 --> 0:16:12.480 this is what we've been talking about, the theory that 0:16:12.520 --> 0:16:15.240 the prosecutors say, once they've gathered all of this information, 0:16:15.800 --> 0:16:19.040 they say that John was murdered in the packer, likely 0:16:19.080 --> 0:16:20.920 from a gunshot wound too the head, like you said, 0:16:21.120 --> 0:16:23.600 but of course the head has been destroyed, presumably in 0:16:23.640 --> 0:16:27.600 the fire. It's theorized that he was dismembered at Donald's house, 0:16:27.680 --> 0:16:31.960 but the limbs were incinerated in Evelyn's furnace, and then 0:16:32.240 --> 0:16:34.680 John's torso was dumped in the woods, probably because it 0:16:34.720 --> 0:16:36.560 was too It was actually too big to fit into 0:16:36.560 --> 0:16:38.000 the furnace, so I think they went, oh shit, we 0:16:38.040 --> 0:16:40.280 got to put it somewhere, so they dumped it, you know, 0:16:40.360 --> 0:16:42.080 in this place. That all makes sense to you, I'm 0:16:42.120 --> 0:16:45.040 assuming rise or anything you disagree with in the prosecutor's case. 0:16:45.600 --> 0:16:46.640 No, that makes sense. 0:16:46.680 --> 0:16:50.200 I think it's it's interesting that they didn't bother to 0:16:50.400 --> 0:16:54.920 further cut up the torso, to incinerate it. It's possible 0:16:55.040 --> 0:16:57.040 that once they kind of got to the point where 0:16:57.080 --> 0:17:00.800 they did with the dismemberment of John, they're going, oh, 0:17:00.840 --> 0:17:02.640 this is unpleasant. 0:17:03.000 --> 0:17:06.159 You know, we just were not going to bother with 0:17:06.200 --> 0:17:06.840 the rest of the body. 0:17:06.880 --> 0:17:09.000 Let's just go dump it, you know, because it takes 0:17:09.040 --> 0:17:11.879 a certain what do you want to say, disposition, you know, 0:17:12.119 --> 0:17:16.200 to hack up a body and do it without possibly 0:17:16.240 --> 0:17:18.840 having to go throw up or going oh, I wasn't 0:17:18.880 --> 0:17:19.680 expecting this. 0:17:20.680 --> 0:17:22.879 I think they abandoned. 0:17:22.240 --> 0:17:26.000 The body disposal process early, considering that Donald had a 0:17:26.080 --> 0:17:30.000 magazine article on how to dispose of a body through incineration. 0:17:30.840 --> 0:17:34.840 So it seems like they didn't carry out the plan 0:17:35.200 --> 0:17:38.639 as far as they could have in terms of getting 0:17:38.720 --> 0:17:40.480 rid of the body through incineration. 0:17:44.119 --> 0:17:47.840 We've got some arrests. So remember they were holding Evelyn 0:17:47.880 --> 0:17:51.200 on vacrancy charges, really vague vagrancy charges, which to me 0:17:51.760 --> 0:17:54.200 it sounded like because she doesn't have a full time job, 0:17:54.359 --> 0:17:56.800 maybe you know, I mean stealing money, it was just 0:17:56.840 --> 0:17:59.320 a way for her to away from them, to keep 0:17:59.320 --> 0:18:01.520 a hold of her for a little bit. Yeap, okay. 0:18:01.720 --> 0:18:06.720 So they have brought charges for John's murder against Evelyn 0:18:06.840 --> 0:18:10.080 and Donald and the mom Alexandra, who they think was 0:18:10.080 --> 0:18:14.439 involved also, and Bill, who is Evelyn's I mean, I 0:18:14.480 --> 0:18:17.240 think boyfriend is a pretty loose term for what he 0:18:17.320 --> 0:18:19.200 probably was. I think you're right. I think he was 0:18:19.240 --> 0:18:22.600 probably a little bit of a patsy. So Evelyn just 0:18:22.600 --> 0:18:25.920 starts turning on people, which doesn't surprise me. She implicates 0:18:25.960 --> 0:18:30.000 Bill in the murders of John and this baby. I 0:18:30.400 --> 0:18:33.800 will not drag this out. She didn't even know Bill 0:18:34.080 --> 0:18:36.600 when she was pregnant. I was going to say with Peter, 0:18:36.960 --> 0:18:38.879 I mean, what is she thinking. So she's saying he 0:18:39.000 --> 0:18:42.880 strangled my kid, and it was easily proven you know 0:18:43.119 --> 0:18:45.439 that this was not the case. So I don't know 0:18:45.520 --> 0:18:48.760 if she's just throwing she's not smart, she's throwing stuff out, 0:18:48.880 --> 0:18:51.600 but she is trying to pin this on everybody but herself. 0:18:51.880 --> 0:18:55.280 Sure, you know, and again we've just seen this lack 0:18:55.800 --> 0:19:00.600 of awareness and knowledge and how the crime scene has handled, 0:19:00.640 --> 0:19:04.040 how sloppy it is. And now her statements are sloppy. 0:19:03.760 --> 0:19:04.520 In many ways. 0:19:04.680 --> 0:19:07.840 You know, this is something that those investigators would be 0:19:07.920 --> 0:19:11.080 able to easily see through. And when she's making those 0:19:11.119 --> 0:19:15.280 types of statements which are obvious lies, you know, those 0:19:15.280 --> 0:19:17.800 are just like ding ding ding, you know, both for 0:19:17.880 --> 0:19:20.919 the investigators going okay, you know we're on the right track, 0:19:21.359 --> 0:19:23.919 and for the prosecutors who will put that information in 0:19:23.920 --> 0:19:24.719 front of a jury. 0:19:25.080 --> 0:19:28.560 You know. So and in part it may just be, 0:19:28.720 --> 0:19:31.280 you know, she's what twenty five years old. 0:19:32.160 --> 0:19:36.200 In all likelihood, you know, this homicide of John is 0:19:37.640 --> 0:19:40.520 much more complicated than what she thought it was going 0:19:40.600 --> 0:19:43.840 to be you know, it's a ten day old infant. 0:19:43.880 --> 0:19:46.280 She came up with the excuse of well, the reason 0:19:46.359 --> 0:19:49.240 this infant is not Peter's not around anymore is because 0:19:49.280 --> 0:19:52.280 I gave him up for adoption, when in reality he's 0:19:52.320 --> 0:19:54.520 in case and Cement in a suitcase in her attic. 0:19:55.000 --> 0:19:58.720 Well, Evelyn and Bell are charged with the murder of Peter, 0:19:59.400 --> 0:20:01.480 and you know Bill will get out of that once 0:20:01.520 --> 0:20:05.040 they realize the timeline a little bit. So Donald and 0:20:05.080 --> 0:20:08.840 his wife are both charged additionally with John's murder, and 0:20:09.440 --> 0:20:12.520 Donald is, on top of that, charged with stealing money 0:20:12.840 --> 0:20:17.200 from the transport agency that he worked for. So this 0:20:17.359 --> 0:20:21.240 becomes a huge media sensation, as you can imagine, front 0:20:21.280 --> 0:20:24.400 page news all across the country. Lots of people show 0:20:24.480 --> 0:20:26.359 up trying to grab a seat and they want to 0:20:26.400 --> 0:20:29.879 gawk at someone they describe in the newspapers in the 0:20:29.960 --> 0:20:33.119 forties as a femfetale, which that really pisses me off. 0:20:33.160 --> 0:20:37.000 It's so dismissive. But they of course have photos of 0:20:37.040 --> 0:20:39.800 her sort of like lounging in this chair. She is 0:20:39.840 --> 0:20:43.640 an attractive woman, she's very hip looking. This sets up 0:20:43.720 --> 0:20:47.840 for this media circus because her sex life comes out 0:20:47.880 --> 0:20:51.040 all over this trial. And this is the slutshaming that 0:20:51.080 --> 0:20:53.520 I was talking about and how it plays into the trial, 0:20:53.560 --> 0:20:57.240 because there is, for me, the Evelyn who very clearly 0:20:57.359 --> 0:21:00.680 was involved in two murders. But then there is also 0:21:00.720 --> 0:21:03.560 the Evelyn who you know, when they put her on 0:21:03.640 --> 0:21:07.160 trial it is just like your horror and you did 0:21:07.160 --> 0:21:10.080 this because you're a whore. So it's hard to reconcile 0:21:10.119 --> 0:21:12.760 the two together. And so I want to talk about 0:21:12.760 --> 0:21:15.440 That's what we're heading next, is getting a fair trial. 0:21:15.680 --> 0:21:20.919 In terms of the slut shaming aspect of Evelyn. I 0:21:20.920 --> 0:21:23.440 guess I would need to know, Okay, what is being 0:21:23.440 --> 0:21:26.640 attributed to how the media is portraying her, and then 0:21:26.800 --> 0:21:31.000 what is how is she being portrayed in court? You know, 0:21:31.000 --> 0:21:37.159 because in some aspects her relationships do play in to 0:21:37.440 --> 0:21:43.960 the people the prosecutors laying the groundwork for motive, if 0:21:44.000 --> 0:21:48.520 you will. But is it completely needed, you know, I 0:21:48.520 --> 0:21:51.360 think it all depends on how the prosecutors are laying 0:21:51.400 --> 0:21:52.120 their case out. 0:21:52.600 --> 0:21:54.879 Well, I wasn't going to tell you this until a 0:21:54.880 --> 0:21:56.879 little bit later. I'm going to read you this a 0:21:56.920 --> 0:21:59.240 little bit from the trial right now, just to give 0:21:59.240 --> 0:22:03.199 you an idea of what it was like. She's on 0:22:03.240 --> 0:22:05.439 the stand. Now, this is a preliminary hearing, but she 0:22:05.560 --> 0:22:08.639 also testified at her trial. She is on the stand 0:22:09.160 --> 0:22:12.760 and the prosecutor says, tell the court how many men 0:22:12.840 --> 0:22:17.479 you've had sexual intercourse with? And she says maybe one 0:22:17.560 --> 0:22:20.280 hundred and fifty. Now, I don't know if she's gigging 0:22:20.359 --> 0:22:24.119 him or if that's accurate. Either way, that's her truth. 0:22:24.280 --> 0:22:26.560 I want you, this is the lawyer, I want you 0:22:26.640 --> 0:22:29.680 to name these men for the court right now. Who 0:22:29.760 --> 0:22:35.200 are they? She says, well, his son for one. She's 0:22:35.240 --> 0:22:38.600