WEBVTT - Final Four final thoughts; Tony Bennett's title winning adjustments; Michigan St. Associate HC Dane Fife on Sparty's Final Four run 0:00:06.080 --> 0:00:09.120 Welcome to the All Ball Podcast. I'm Doug Gottlieb, and 0:00:09.440 --> 0:00:12.040 remember you can you can listen to The Doug Gotlieb 0:00:12.080 --> 0:00:14.680 Show every afternoon three to six Eastern Time, twelve three 0:00:14.720 --> 0:00:18.640 Pacific XM Serious, two oh three and two seventeen. Don't 0:00:18.680 --> 0:00:21.480 ask me in which one you can find it. Um. 0:00:21.520 --> 0:00:24.439 We're on the same channel as Dan Patrick on Sirius 0:00:24.640 --> 0:00:27.280 xm UM. And of course you can go to Fox 0:00:27.280 --> 0:00:30.120 Sports Tradio dot com. You can also download The Doug 0:00:30.160 --> 0:00:33.680 Gotlieb Show daily on iTunes wherever you downloaded this podcast. 0:00:33.800 --> 0:00:38.159 Remember too, what is it to download, subscribe and to 0:00:38.320 --> 0:00:41.120 rate our podcast? Because I don't think it helps me financially, 0:00:41.159 --> 0:00:45.199 but it helps my podcast rank ratings or whatever. Um, 0:00:45.240 --> 0:00:47.800 and the downloads have been great. Listen. I'll leave the 0:00:47.800 --> 0:00:50.599 final four with this. There was seventy six thousand six 0:00:51.040 --> 0:00:55.760 two people. That was great basketball four amazing stories. I 0:00:55.800 --> 0:00:58.320 don't know how Auburn got to where they should have 0:00:58.440 --> 0:01:01.600 gone to the national championship without h mckeeky, but they 0:01:01.640 --> 0:01:05.679 probably should have, right. Uh. Virginia is the national champion, 0:01:05.720 --> 0:01:11.480 coming from losing to Maryland Baltimore County to winning an 0:01:11.520 --> 0:01:14.000 S championship amazing. And then the way in which they 0:01:14.040 --> 0:01:18.360 won the last three games. Uh, Michigan State losing Josh Langford, 0:01:18.720 --> 0:01:21.560 losing two pros, Heck nic Ward getting hurt, and then 0:01:21.760 --> 0:01:24.280 winning the Big Ten, the Big Ten Tournament, beating Duke, 0:01:24.760 --> 0:01:27.160 going to a final four and coming back and having 0:01:27.240 --> 0:01:29.720 a ball in the air down three chance to tie 0:01:29.800 --> 0:01:35.600 the game late incredible and uh and then Texas Tech 0:01:35.640 --> 0:01:38.800 who lost four starters. And like I think the world 0:01:38.840 --> 0:01:40.920 of Chris Beard. I would only say this with with 0:01:41.000 --> 0:01:44.280 Chris Beard, if I could, I could make one change, 0:01:44.800 --> 0:01:46.880 I would have taken out Odossi after he made the 0:01:46.880 --> 0:01:48.800 free throw to put him up three. I know they 0:01:48.840 --> 0:01:52.880 switched five all year long, but he gets beat and 0:01:52.920 --> 0:01:57.720 then I don't know why Cover you know, leaves the 0:01:57.760 --> 0:02:00.280 best player on the floor in the corner open for 0:02:00.280 --> 0:02:02.280 a jump shot instead of given up the easy two. 0:02:02.440 --> 0:02:04.600 They would have had a one point lead. But they're 0:02:04.640 --> 0:02:09.160 college kids. This happens, and um I thought ultimately it 0:02:09.200 --> 0:02:11.040 cost them. Obviously, there were some calls that went the 0:02:11.040 --> 0:02:13.840 way of Virginia. Um I. Also, I'm gonna play for 0:02:13.880 --> 0:02:17.520 you something that you might find interesting that this was 0:02:17.800 --> 0:02:22.400 Tony Bennett on my radio show talking about a conversation 0:02:22.520 --> 0:02:26.359 he and I had after the college basketball season last 0:02:26.400 --> 0:02:29.000 year when they lost to Marylyn Baltimore County. You bring 0:02:29.080 --> 0:02:31.840 up Key and he did have a huge championship game, 0:02:31.880 --> 0:02:35.000 but I also think it speaks to you and your 0:02:35.040 --> 0:02:39.040 ability to read the game on the fly because Key struggled, 0:02:39.680 --> 0:02:41.320 you know a little bit with with their size, with 0:02:41.400 --> 0:02:43.520 their length, and really they're just older guys, right, He's 0:02:43.560 --> 0:02:47.040 a kid, They're they're grown men. And I thought you 0:02:47.160 --> 0:02:49.800 made uh and they kind of change their line up. 0:02:49.800 --> 0:02:51.600 They went to a little bit of a small ball lineup, 0:02:51.720 --> 0:02:54.800 and it it caused you to change. Was that was 0:02:54.840 --> 0:02:57.840 that part of your plan um to play Key that 0:02:57.960 --> 0:02:59.919 much in the championship game or is that something you've 0:03:00.040 --> 0:03:02.880 felt as the game went on. I felt that as 0:03:02.880 --> 0:03:04.560 the game went on. And Doug, I'm gonna give you 0:03:04.639 --> 0:03:07.200 some credit. You and I had a conversation. You know, 0:03:07.240 --> 0:03:09.519 we go back so many years. You know, um our 0:03:09.560 --> 0:03:13.079 fathers were both you know, legendary coaches who have poured 0:03:13.160 --> 0:03:16.760 so much into us. And after last year's UNBC game, 0:03:17.000 --> 0:03:18.480 you know, you and I talked. I can't remember if 0:03:18.480 --> 0:03:20.720 we did an interview or not, but you talked and 0:03:20.800 --> 0:03:24.959 you challenged me and encouraged me that you know, obviously, 0:03:25.000 --> 0:03:27.560 like everyone would grow from this game, but you know, 0:03:27.680 --> 0:03:30.600 can you can you find ways when the tournament comes 0:03:31.160 --> 0:03:33.800 to play differently even through the year, try different things, 0:03:33.840 --> 0:03:38.680 whether it's offensively or defensively, um or lineup wise. And 0:03:39.000 --> 0:03:41.440 I remember that conversation and I and I knew we 0:03:41.480 --> 0:03:44.320 had to do that because you know, obviously we were 0:03:44.360 --> 0:03:47.760 good last year and DeAndre Hunter allowed us to play small, 0:03:48.240 --> 0:03:49.920 and then when DeAndre got hurt in the n c 0:03:50.080 --> 0:03:52.880 A tournament before that, we couldn't we didn't have that 0:03:52.960 --> 0:03:55.800 four guard lineup. Well. This year, when Braxton and Key 0:03:55.840 --> 0:03:57.920 got eligible, I knew at times we're gonna be able 0:03:57.960 --> 0:04:00.440 to play Key has a five and Ray as a 0:04:00.480 --> 0:04:03.080 four or vice versa, and a real small lineup. And 0:04:03.120 --> 0:04:05.320 then against Perdue, we needed to go big with salt 0:04:05.480 --> 0:04:08.880 and and mom Andy, so you kind of challenge me. 0:04:09.000 --> 0:04:11.280 We added some things and I really tried to think 0:04:11.320 --> 0:04:14.640 hard about that, and I thought in tournament runs, you 0:04:14.720 --> 0:04:16.840 need to be able to have the versatility to mix 0:04:16.920 --> 0:04:20.400 things up offensively or defense. We used the offense against 0:04:20.920 --> 0:04:23.239 um Texas Tech in the championship game that we hadn't 0:04:23.240 --> 0:04:26.360 hardly used all year because they ran a different kind 0:04:26.400 --> 0:04:28.279 of defense with the way they forced it on the 0:04:28.360 --> 0:04:31.040 side and switched, and so you have to have those 0:04:31.080 --> 0:04:36.799 things ready in those situations. So yeah, you know, look, 0:04:37.600 --> 0:04:40.000 I don't want to get into fouls. By the time 0:04:40.040 --> 0:04:42.640 you download this podcast, you probably forgot about the blow 0:04:42.680 --> 0:04:46.039 by both the play by play of different things. I 0:04:46.080 --> 0:04:49.080 will say this, and I'm I'm sure I'm annoying to 0:04:49.160 --> 0:04:52.320 a lot of people who I'm friends with in college basketball, 0:04:52.680 --> 0:04:56.200 text back and forth with ironically all four of these teams. 0:04:57.320 --> 0:04:59.440 I worked a little bit for Bruce Pearl. I know 0:04:59.480 --> 0:05:02.200 Stephen really well. Uh, Dane Fife is gonna be our 0:05:02.240 --> 0:05:05.599 guest and coaches, Um, I communicate with them often throughout 0:05:05.600 --> 0:05:08.080 the season. Tony Bennett don't communicate as much with but 0:05:08.160 --> 0:05:10.320 we go way way back. My dad, of course, was 0:05:10.360 --> 0:05:14.400 the coach at u W Milwaukee. His dad's a Wisconsin legend. 0:05:14.480 --> 0:05:17.919 He's always been super kind to me. Um. At some 0:05:17.920 --> 0:05:19.640 point I'll have him on this pod and we'll talk 0:05:19.640 --> 0:05:25.120 about how Clay Thompson became a Washington State Cougar. I'm forgetting. Oh, 0:05:25.200 --> 0:05:28.800 and then Chris Beard has to form local and state 0:05:28.839 --> 0:05:32.880 assistant coaches and head coach Sean Sean Sutton on the staff, 0:05:32.880 --> 0:05:34.960 and I become pretty close with with coach Beard as well. 0:05:35.040 --> 0:05:37.680 So I know all of these guys and so I'm 0:05:37.680 --> 0:05:39.520 probably annoying to them and that I do text them 0:05:39.520 --> 0:05:41.480 and call them and give you it's not giving my 0:05:41.520 --> 0:05:45.440 two cents, sometimes another set of eyes. It's valuable. And 0:05:45.480 --> 0:05:46.839 I always tell him like, hey, listen, if you don't 0:05:46.839 --> 0:05:49.760 if I don't know I'm talking about fine. But what 0:05:49.880 --> 0:05:53.400 I told Tony Bennett, what I encouraged Tony Bennett to do, 0:05:53.400 --> 0:05:56.080 I was like, look, I think your style of play 0:05:56.160 --> 0:05:58.040 is fine. I think you're going to get to a 0:05:58.080 --> 0:06:00.080 fun four. I think you've got a chance to in 0:06:00.080 --> 0:06:04.440 a national championship. But I think your percentage chances increase 0:06:05.080 --> 0:06:09.000 if you continue to add to your offensive repertoire. Remember, 0:06:09.040 --> 0:06:12.000 here's the guy who played overseas Um, here's the guys 0:06:12.000 --> 0:06:15.560 playing in the NBA. And it's not for lack of knowledge, 0:06:15.640 --> 0:06:20.160 it's just you can't simply depend on blocker mover and 0:06:20.200 --> 0:06:22.000 not have other tricks in the back. They went to 0:06:22.120 --> 0:06:25.719 some ball screen continuities. This year, they've put in more 0:06:25.800 --> 0:06:27.960 NBA sets. Of course, I think most of the college 0:06:27.960 --> 0:06:30.920 basketball world loves one of their elevator plays that they 0:06:31.000 --> 0:06:35.800 ran um But more than anything, I encouraged him. And 0:06:35.839 --> 0:06:39.000 this is just a general philosophy I have in life, 0:06:39.000 --> 0:06:42.560 but especially in sports, which is, hey, the goal of 0:06:42.760 --> 0:06:45.360 a team when they're preparing for you is to make 0:06:45.400 --> 0:06:47.960 you play left handed, make you do something that you 0:06:48.040 --> 0:06:51.680 might be uncomfortable doing, and so and oftentimes coaches will 0:06:51.680 --> 0:06:54.279 fall back on, well, you know, it's just a bad 0:06:54.279 --> 0:06:56.800 matchup for us. It's just a bad matchup. That's what 0:06:56.839 --> 0:06:59.000 it was. We lost because it was a bad matchup, 0:06:59.839 --> 0:07:03.039 and that's reasonable. Sometimes there's certain styles, certain teams where 0:07:03.040 --> 0:07:05.720 you just don't match up well against. You know, you 0:07:05.800 --> 0:07:08.880 just got limitations based upon your personnel. That's gonna happen. 0:07:09.240 --> 0:07:11.960 On the other hand, I remember I was I was 0:07:12.000 --> 0:07:14.160 covering I don't want to tell you the team's name, 0:07:14.160 --> 0:07:18.120 but I was covering a team this year and at 0:07:18.120 --> 0:07:22.080 the end of a game, they ran a play for 0:07:22.560 --> 0:07:26.680 a shooter, for a left handed shooter, and he came 0:07:26.720 --> 0:07:28.680 off of It's one of those players I call it 0:07:28.720 --> 0:07:31.040 the nail. When you drive to the base in instead 0:07:31.080 --> 0:07:33.760 of throwing the hammer, you come back behind you and 0:07:33.840 --> 0:07:35.680 the shooter from the top of the key comes to 0:07:35.720 --> 0:07:38.840 shoot the basketball. Well, they ran that play and left 0:07:38.880 --> 0:07:41.520 handed player shot fakes, and even though the to go 0:07:41.560 --> 0:07:43.400 to the right was open, he wanted to come back 0:07:43.440 --> 0:07:45.200 to a strong left hand. He went back to the defense. 0:07:45.240 --> 0:07:48.240 It wasn't as open. They lose the game. And so 0:07:48.320 --> 0:07:51.360 when I when I talked to with with the coaches afterwards, 0:07:51.360 --> 0:07:54.080 I was like, hey, just question, why didn't you run 0:07:54.120 --> 0:07:55.840 that to the other side of the court. And they're 0:07:55.880 --> 0:07:58.680 like why. I was like, well, this particular player is 0:07:58.800 --> 0:08:01.920 left handed. He likes hurling off the screen, you know, 0:08:01.960 --> 0:08:05.160 moving to his left, and then if he shot fakes, 0:08:05.200 --> 0:08:07.120 he likes one trouble to his left, that's a that's 0:08:07.160 --> 0:08:11.160 a shot for him. He's like, well, we we had 0:08:11.240 --> 0:08:17.320 never had though that that lineup in that position of 0:08:17.360 --> 0:08:22.440 a game to run that play. And I thought to myself, well, 0:08:22.440 --> 0:08:26.160 whose fault is that right? And again this is the 0:08:26.200 --> 0:08:28.560 general philosophy have which is like, especially a coach, like, 0:08:28.800 --> 0:08:31.000 so this is why I told told told I do it. 0:08:31.040 --> 0:08:33.920 This sounds really arrogant. I didn't win him a national championship. 0:08:34.160 --> 0:08:36.240 I didn't tell ma anything profound that he probably didn't 0:08:36.240 --> 0:08:38.360 already know and challenge himself. But this is a thought 0:08:38.360 --> 0:08:42.040 that I have, which is, you know, look, challenge yourself 0:08:42.520 --> 0:08:47.200 to sometimes create artificial adversity. Take a look at a 0:08:47.200 --> 0:08:49.800 different lineup, Take a look at guys at different spots, 0:08:50.000 --> 0:08:52.679 not just in practice, not just in scrimmages, not just 0:08:52.720 --> 0:08:56.400 in exhibition games, but in real games. Take a legit 0:08:56.480 --> 0:08:58.600 look at a small lineup, Take a legit look at 0:08:58.600 --> 0:09:01.360 a big lineup, the three point guards out there at once, 0:09:01.720 --> 0:09:05.360 press what does it all look like? Because you you 0:09:05.440 --> 0:09:08.520 don't know in a one and done scenario or playing 0:09:08.520 --> 0:09:12.439 for your league championship, how somebody's gonna try and make 0:09:12.480 --> 0:09:16.600 you play, or what type of matchup may ultimately expose 0:09:16.840 --> 0:09:19.800 what you normally want to do. And if you don't 0:09:19.880 --> 0:09:23.080 have a second gear or a third gear, or you know, 0:09:23.120 --> 0:09:26.400 a different if you don't have that, then what you 0:09:26.520 --> 0:09:30.600 do can become stale, and people spend all year figuring 0:09:30.600 --> 0:09:32.400 out whoa what do you do? And how do we 0:09:32.440 --> 0:09:34.439 do it? How do we they say, how do we 0:09:34.480 --> 0:09:37.120 stop them from scoring? And how do we score against them? 0:09:37.160 --> 0:09:39.800 You know, I understand the pragmatism to hey, listen, I 0:09:39.840 --> 0:09:43.200 just want to win this game and don't win this game, 0:09:43.200 --> 0:09:46.200 but sometimes you gotta play the long game. You gotta 0:09:46.200 --> 0:09:48.680 develop a bench. You gotta develop a small line up. 0:09:48.679 --> 0:09:50.360 You gotta develop a big line up. You gotta develop 0:09:50.360 --> 0:09:52.280 a pressing line up. You gotta develop a what do 0:09:52.360 --> 0:09:54.440 we do against the zone, and what do we do 0:09:54.480 --> 0:09:57.000 when we can't do that against the zone. Because my 0:09:57.280 --> 0:09:59.560 you know, my best shooter or my guy bet who 0:09:59.600 --> 0:10:01.440 was best in the high post, he's in foul trip, 0:10:01.559 --> 0:10:03.600 or he's sick, or he broke a pinky finger or whatever, 0:10:04.200 --> 0:10:06.000 and so yeah, I encouraged him to run more some 0:10:06.000 --> 0:10:08.679 more ball screen stuff, because like Dane Fife is going 0:10:08.720 --> 0:10:10.800 to tell us, kids grow up learning to play off 0:10:10.800 --> 0:10:13.719 ball screens, and yet we're retraining them when they get 0:10:13.760 --> 0:10:15.920 to college to teach him how to play motion game. 0:10:15.960 --> 0:10:18.240 At some of these schools, you gotta sometimes play with 0:10:18.320 --> 0:10:21.320 some of their strengths. Tony did that, But I I'm I. 0:10:21.559 --> 0:10:24.120 I would readily admit I'm super annoying as a fan 0:10:24.240 --> 0:10:26.640 and a friend and a basketball guy to so many 0:10:26.640 --> 0:10:28.920 of these coaches. And I text them suggestions and things 0:10:28.920 --> 0:10:31.920 that I think. We have long conversations, and generally it's 0:10:31.960 --> 0:10:35.400 to continue to watch and evolve. And yeah, you always 0:10:35.400 --> 0:10:37.960 have your base. You always have your core ethics. You 0:10:38.000 --> 0:10:41.120 always have your offense, you always have your defense, but 0:10:41.280 --> 0:10:43.720 there are gonna be times in which you gotta change. 0:10:43.920 --> 0:10:47.400 I believe bo Ryan would have won a national championship 0:10:47.559 --> 0:10:49.600 had he had a different way of playing the ball 0:10:49.600 --> 0:10:53.520 screen against uh Tias Jones and Duke. But they always 0:10:53.600 --> 0:10:57.360 kind of flat hedged and sunk and Tia Tias Jones 0:10:57.520 --> 0:11:00.280 hit jump shot after jump shot jump shot, and people 0:11:00.280 --> 0:11:02.319 can tell me, well, it's the officiating with Duke, Like, no, 0:11:02.400 --> 0:11:07.400 it wasn't. Tyas Jones just made shots because Wisconsin played 0:11:07.679 --> 0:11:11.720 true Pac line defense and unlike Virginia. Virginia plays Pac 0:11:11.720 --> 0:11:15.199 line principles, but they hard hedge ball screens. So that 0:11:15.200 --> 0:11:18.000 that was my conversation with Tony Bennett. And you can 0:11:18.000 --> 0:11:20.719 hear that conversation. It's entirety if you're downloaded part of 0:11:20.720 --> 0:11:24.440 the Doug Gottlip Show. All right, let's get to our 0:11:24.440 --> 0:11:26.120 guest of the week. His name is name five. He's 0:11:26.160 --> 0:11:28.720 longtime assistant Michigan State. It's also a dear friend of mine. 0:11:29.280 --> 0:11:31.640 Uh It was a tremendous player. Dad was a coach. 0:11:31.720 --> 0:11:34.840 Dad is a coach, and I just think his his 0:11:35.000 --> 0:11:38.160 story is a really really interesting one and it kind 0:11:38.160 --> 0:11:39.880 of tells the story a little bit about Michigan State 0:11:39.880 --> 0:11:44.440 basketball this year. Um. Okay, so let's let's start. Um. 0:11:44.559 --> 0:11:46.760 I always love to do this. You grew up playing 0:11:46.760 --> 0:11:52.520 basketball where? Well, like like, did you have a park? 0:11:52.720 --> 0:11:56.080 There was a gym? Like your your first basketball memory 0:11:56.120 --> 0:12:00.240 is where Larkston High School gym. My dad was high 0:12:00.240 --> 0:12:03.480 school coach, and I just go to practice every day 0:12:03.120 --> 0:12:08.080 and shoot on the side all day. Okay, So, uh 0:12:08.200 --> 0:12:11.720 did the side hoops have fan backboards? Did they have 0:12:12.120 --> 0:12:17.760 would backboards or regular glass backboards? I grew up on 0:12:18.240 --> 0:12:23.000 glass backboards. That's a nice that's a nice gym right there. 0:12:23.000 --> 0:12:26.560 To have side backboards that are nice glass, square, square backboards. 0:12:26.640 --> 0:12:29.880 What what would uh you need? Your dad obviously a 0:12:29.880 --> 0:12:32.840 longtime coach. I mean you even have a kid plays 0:12:32.880 --> 0:12:35.120 for you now, played for your dad. What's he like 0:12:37.480 --> 0:12:41.880 my dad? Yeah? As a coach, Well, he's nuts. He 0:12:41.960 --> 0:12:47.800 grew up in the post World War Two era where 0:12:47.920 --> 0:12:55.079 the heroes were General Patton, Hey guys and Howard Um. 0:12:55.120 --> 0:13:00.400 You know, the the the Armies and the Navy's got 0:13:00.440 --> 0:13:05.000 a lot of good athletes. Um, and so he was 0:13:07.120 --> 0:13:11.199 he his favorite coach was probably at the time coach Night, 0:13:11.559 --> 0:13:16.400 coach Bob Knight and so um, I wouldn't say he was. 0:13:18.920 --> 0:13:21.160 He didn't use a lot of follow language or are 0:13:21.240 --> 0:13:25.160 really yelling at people's faces, but he was. He was 0:13:25.240 --> 0:13:28.840 very structured, very organized, and he believed in playing with 0:13:29.000 --> 0:13:32.000 maximum effort every second you're out on the court. He 0:13:32.040 --> 0:13:34.839 always told me if I don't care what you play, 0:13:35.040 --> 0:13:37.800 I think he did care. But if you're gonna play, 0:13:37.840 --> 0:13:40.680 you're gonna do it your best, whether it's checkers or basketball. 0:13:40.760 --> 0:13:45.520 And and he held me to that. And my brothers, um, 0:13:45.559 --> 0:13:48.560 now your brother Duke and just see you no, um 0:13:48.880 --> 0:13:51.440 he not only he has better name than you, such 0:13:51.480 --> 0:13:56.080 a good name that that one. It's memorable, right. And 0:13:56.200 --> 0:13:59.600 he played in Michigan, and you know, growing up Doug 0:13:59.720 --> 0:14:02.120 and was like, you know like that the negative nicknames 0:14:02.120 --> 0:14:05.560 were like Doug slug or a Doug the little bug. 0:14:05.640 --> 0:14:07.720 And I was like, no, no, no, call me Dugan. 0:14:07.920 --> 0:14:10.320 Like there was a time when I was like, actually 0:14:10.360 --> 0:14:12.520 it's more Duke, go by Dugan. They're like, no, no, 0:14:12.679 --> 0:14:16.520 that's Dugan. Five. If you're not, you're not Dugan. Um, 0:14:16.559 --> 0:14:18.960 what uh what's it like to have it? Like? Was 0:14:19.000 --> 0:14:21.320 he a nice big my big brother Greg who's an 0:14:21.320 --> 0:14:26.000 assistant coach organ State. Um, he was, he was. He 0:14:26.000 --> 0:14:29.680 would vacillate between being an awesome big brother and a 0:14:29.800 --> 0:14:33.000 terrible big brother. I think sometimes I was the friends 0:14:33.040 --> 0:14:35.000 that he would keep by, like, Hey, we're gonna go 0:14:35.080 --> 0:14:37.520 meet at Jordan Elementry and shoot hoops. Meet us there. 0:14:37.600 --> 0:14:39.600 And then I go there and there literally be nobody 0:14:39.600 --> 0:14:41.160 there right just to get rid of me or lock 0:14:41.240 --> 0:14:44.320 me out of the house. Um pants me when we 0:14:44.320 --> 0:14:47.760 were in our our friends pool and throw my my 0:14:47.880 --> 0:14:51.160 shorts up on the roof and then invite other people over. 0:14:51.680 --> 0:14:56.440 So what was your big brother like? Rotten? And uh, 0:14:56.720 --> 0:15:00.800 because I'm sure there's young people listening, Um, I would 0:15:00.880 --> 0:15:05.320 say that probably until Dugan went off to college. He 0:15:05.400 --> 0:15:08.400 was six years older than I was. Uh, he was 0:15:08.440 --> 0:15:11.840 probably the worst big brother that that a little brother 0:15:11.920 --> 0:15:14.640 could have. And I was the baby Jeremy who's uh, 0:15:15.560 --> 0:15:19.080 we're all three years apart, so Jeremy's the middle child 0:15:19.160 --> 0:15:22.920 and and but Dugan was the worst big brother up 0:15:22.960 --> 0:15:27.640 until about his nineteenth birthday. Even then, he came home 0:15:27.680 --> 0:15:30.400 and during mid season and his freshman year at Michigan 0:15:30.480 --> 0:15:33.680 and we were out shoveling off the basketball court in 0:15:33.720 --> 0:15:37.080 our backyard. It was just a small court. We shoveled 0:15:37.120 --> 0:15:38.920 it off and I hit him in the lip on 0:15:39.000 --> 0:15:41.560 accident playing him one on one, and he pushed me 0:15:41.600 --> 0:15:43.680 down and rubbed my face in the snow. And I 0:15:43.720 --> 0:15:48.680 was probably about thirteen at the time. But um, there 0:15:48.800 --> 0:15:54.840 wasn't a day that I didn't plan to somehow make 0:15:54.920 --> 0:16:03.680 Dugan disappear in my in my in my youth. It's awesome. Um, well, 0:16:03.680 --> 0:16:06.480 if if Coach Night was your dad's hero, and it's 0:16:06.520 --> 0:16:08.880 interesting because I don't know if you know this. So 0:16:08.960 --> 0:16:10.600 my dad was a walk on in the house state, 0:16:10.640 --> 0:16:13.400 a JV player during the same here when Bob Knight 0:16:13.480 --> 0:16:17.400 was there, and um, they were kind of on again, 0:16:17.440 --> 0:16:21.320 off again friends. But he also looked up to Coach Night. 0:16:21.760 --> 0:16:26.040 And although Coach Night you didn't really recruit me, it 0:16:26.160 --> 0:16:28.680 wasn't really my dad never wanted me to play for him, 0:16:28.720 --> 0:16:31.040 not because of how he was, but more because of 0:16:31.080 --> 0:16:35.000 how he played. Like that wasn't But why didn't you 0:16:35.040 --> 0:16:41.360 can go play for him? Well, Dugan, Um, my dad 0:16:41.360 --> 0:16:45.280 played at Michigan. Um he was with Rudy tom Jonovich 0:16:45.400 --> 0:16:49.280 and just after Kassie Russell. But my dad played at 0:16:49.280 --> 0:16:53.200 Michigan and my dad played pro baseball with the Twins 0:16:53.240 --> 0:16:57.239 and then came back and was an assistant at Michigan. Ironically, 0:16:57.800 --> 0:17:00.080 he was on the bench when Michigan lost in and 0:17:00.160 --> 0:17:05.960 in the seventy six National Championship. UM. And so when 0:17:06.000 --> 0:17:12.040 Dugan was young, Dugan was born in seventy four, UM, 0:17:12.080 --> 0:17:17.359 he experienced Michigan basketball up close and personal. And so 0:17:17.440 --> 0:17:19.760 when he was young, four or five, six years old, 0:17:19.880 --> 0:17:24.560 until my dad stopped coaching at Michigan, he was he 0:17:24.680 --> 0:17:29.679 was those those were his heroes. So you know that 0:17:29.800 --> 0:17:31.800 was ingrained in him when he was really young, and 0:17:31.840 --> 0:17:34.600 we just we always went to Michigan football games, Michigan 0:17:34.600 --> 0:17:37.359 basketball games. My dad was good friends with Bill Freeder, 0:17:38.320 --> 0:17:42.720 and so I think it was just a foregone conclusion 0:17:42.760 --> 0:17:47.280 that Dugan was going to go to Michigan and there 0:17:47.359 --> 0:17:50.360 was never a doubt on on anybody else was exception 0:17:50.400 --> 0:17:55.480 to maybe Michigan State, maybe Stanford. UM, I don't think 0:17:55.520 --> 0:17:59.199 that Indiana recruited him very hard, if you want the truth. Okay, 0:17:59.359 --> 0:18:02.200 So then what about you, Uh, you're a big score 0:18:02.200 --> 0:18:07.080 in high school, right and UM, I'm getting and because 0:18:07.119 --> 0:18:10.040 of because you're the respect that your dad had, because 0:18:10.080 --> 0:18:12.159 of the because of your brother being a hell of 0:18:12.160 --> 0:18:16.120 a player, like it wasn't you were very heavily recruited. 0:18:16.440 --> 0:18:20.560 Why did you go to ee you? Well, it's funny 0:18:20.640 --> 0:18:24.680 because the very first VHS tape that I that we ever, 0:18:25.280 --> 0:18:27.800 that I ever watched. I remember getting our VCR when 0:18:27.800 --> 0:18:34.199 we're in uh Or Lady, but they used to have 0:18:34.200 --> 0:18:35.960 to press the button down. You used to have to 0:18:36.000 --> 0:18:38.480 hold the there was the the it was like, I 0:18:38.480 --> 0:18:40.240 don't know, I don't know how you consider those buttons, 0:18:40.280 --> 0:18:42.440 but you actually had to press the button down right. 0:18:42.560 --> 0:18:44.679 The record button was always the last button you had 0:18:44.680 --> 0:18:47.879 to pressed down right. And then the remote control had 0:18:47.880 --> 0:18:50.800 a chord, so we did we did get one with 0:18:50.840 --> 0:18:55.159 a remote, but it had a court. Um. So, so 0:18:55.200 --> 0:18:58.080 the very first VHS tape that I watched was Michigan 0:18:58.200 --> 0:19:00.840 versus Indiana for the Big Tent Idol and this was 0:19:01.240 --> 0:19:07.320 Freeder versus Night. Um. I think Roy Tarpley was a senior, 0:19:08.080 --> 0:19:11.240 Steve Alford was a junior. But anyway, I just remember 0:19:11.359 --> 0:19:15.480 listening to Billy Packer and Brett Musburger talk about Bob 0:19:15.560 --> 0:19:22.119 Knight with such interest, and it was fascinating just how 0:19:22.200 --> 0:19:25.920 much they revered Coach Night and his personality and Steve 0:19:26.000 --> 0:19:32.200 Alford UM and Michigan ended up killing him, but it's 0:19:32.200 --> 0:19:35.160 stuck in my mind. And then came the movie Hoosiers 0:19:36.800 --> 0:19:40.800 and that representative everything that my hometown pretty much was 0:19:41.960 --> 0:19:47.680 small school, single school, UM, just me and my friends, 0:19:47.920 --> 0:19:52.040 just dream of winning a state championship. That was my dream, 0:19:52.160 --> 0:19:57.439 winning a state championship for my dad. And so you know, 0:19:57.600 --> 0:20:02.879 either way, I think that, Uh, Indiana started recruiting my 0:20:03.000 --> 0:20:07.680 sophomore year. Dan Docket's ironically was the first Indiana coach 0:20:07.760 --> 0:20:11.280 to start recruiting me. But it was just a dream 0:20:11.320 --> 0:20:14.920 of mine to uh, you know, when I was young, 0:20:15.040 --> 0:20:18.160 to just go play basketball at Indiana for Coach Night. 0:20:18.240 --> 0:20:23.080 And Coach Night I viewed as was similar to my dad. 0:20:23.920 --> 0:20:27.040 His offense, his defense, his principles. My dad talked about 0:20:27.119 --> 0:20:32.600 him a lot. UM. I felt like, you know, at 0:20:32.600 --> 0:20:36.440 an alternate universe, Dougan probably would have went and played 0:20:36.440 --> 0:20:40.160 for him too, if Michigan didn't exist. Because Coach Knight 0:20:40.280 --> 0:20:48.720 represented what what the game was to hard work, um championships, um, 0:20:49.800 --> 0:20:53.280 doing it right. You know, there wasn't a lot of 0:20:55.160 --> 0:20:57.720 a lot of cheating going on in his program. It 0:20:57.800 --> 0:20:59.600 felt like we were just going to get an honest 0:21:00.840 --> 0:21:04.120 environment that was going to make you better. And that's 0:21:04.160 --> 0:21:07.119 what it That's ultimately what it was even when I 0:21:07.160 --> 0:21:11.240 went there. Okay, so you show up first day on 0:21:11.359 --> 0:21:16.560 campus at Indiana. What do you remember. Well, my roommate 0:21:16.600 --> 0:21:20.720 was Luke Wrecker and Kyle Hornsby from Louisiana. Kyle Hornsby 0:21:20.880 --> 0:21:25.080 was a well just Uh he was a country boy, 0:21:25.400 --> 0:21:30.879 and Luke Wrecker was was a sophomore. But the first 0:21:30.920 --> 0:21:33.800 thing that I saw was coach and night. Uh Silver Lincoln. 0:21:33.960 --> 0:21:38.119 It's the first thing I remember. And then uh moved 0:21:38.119 --> 0:21:42.920 into my apartment. And then we played Open Jim and 0:21:45.200 --> 0:21:47.639 I was fearless and and here I am a McDonald's 0:21:47.640 --> 0:21:50.919 all American thinking I'm really good and and uh, what 0:21:51.119 --> 0:21:53.000 made me good is that I understood the game. I 0:21:53.040 --> 0:21:55.960 felt like I was way advanced. And you know that 0:21:56.040 --> 0:21:58.280 as a son of the son of a coach, it's 0:21:58.280 --> 0:22:01.679 a blessing and a curse. You know, we are advanced, 0:22:01.760 --> 0:22:06.800 but then we think we know everything and we're stubborn. Um, 0:22:07.040 --> 0:22:10.000 but I've gotten where I was by playing hard, playing 0:22:10.040 --> 0:22:12.439 with effort, playing tough and soil. The first day of 0:22:12.480 --> 0:22:16.080 Open Jim, I ended up squaring off with a with 0:22:16.200 --> 0:22:19.800 a six eight two d and thirty five pounds, uh, 0:22:20.000 --> 0:22:23.119 twenty three year old named William Gladness. We never we 0:22:23.200 --> 0:22:24.840 nearly got him in Oklahoma State. I mean he was 0:22:24.840 --> 0:22:27.640 a junior college transfer. We nearly got him in Oklahoma State. 0:22:27.680 --> 0:22:29.600 We always like, we're like, man, we get William Gladness, 0:22:29.640 --> 0:22:33.040 will be all right? Yeah, and and uh, you know, 0:22:33.080 --> 0:22:35.560 I was always thankful that guys broke it up before 0:22:35.600 --> 0:22:37.800 there were any constance prone But I oh I did 0:22:37.800 --> 0:22:40.879 was set a screen on him. Now will Is is 0:22:41.080 --> 0:22:47.520