WEBVTT - Ep 80 Dysentery loves a disaster

0:00:01.600 --> 0:00:03.880
<v Speaker 1>I was called on to visit the Major about the

0:00:03.920 --> 0:00:06.840
<v Speaker 1>middle of May. He was lying in bed and looked

0:00:06.880 --> 0:00:10.559
<v Speaker 1>pale and emaciated. His eyes were sunk, his cheeks hollow,

0:00:10.720 --> 0:00:14.160
<v Speaker 1>and his countenance dejected. He told me he was in

0:00:14.320 --> 0:00:17.840
<v Speaker 1>violent pain which could not be palliated without taking two

0:00:18.000 --> 0:00:21.520
<v Speaker 1>or three grams of opium every three or four hours.

0:00:21.600 --> 0:00:25.200
<v Speaker 1>His bowels were obstinately costive, and he was obliged to

0:00:25.239 --> 0:00:30.000
<v Speaker 1>take some purgative medicine every day. Food was loathsome to him,

0:00:30.400 --> 0:00:33.560
<v Speaker 1>and he had profuse perspirations, for which he was taking

0:00:33.640 --> 0:00:37.319
<v Speaker 1>wine and bark. I endeavored to restore his appetite by

0:00:37.400 --> 0:00:40.800
<v Speaker 1>lessening the quantity of opium and substituting the tincture of

0:00:40.880 --> 0:00:44.680
<v Speaker 1>hops as much as possible. His appetite was frequently coaxed

0:00:44.680 --> 0:00:48.320
<v Speaker 1>by some delicacy, and the sweet oil was frequently alternated

0:00:48.360 --> 0:00:52.960
<v Speaker 1>by magnesia and rhubarb. This treatment was regularly pursued until

0:00:53.000 --> 0:00:55.920
<v Speaker 1>the last of June, and although he suffered much pain

0:00:56.040 --> 0:00:58.960
<v Speaker 1>during that time, he was evidently much better and his

0:00:59.040 --> 0:01:02.720
<v Speaker 1>appetite improved. The pain in his bowels was less frequent

0:01:02.800 --> 0:01:06.800
<v Speaker 1>and not so violent. July fourth, I was sent for

0:01:07.040 --> 0:01:10.039
<v Speaker 1>in great haste to visit him. When I entered his room,

0:01:10.160 --> 0:01:13.880
<v Speaker 1>I was astonished at his altered appearance. His countenance was

0:01:13.920 --> 0:01:16.479
<v Speaker 1>pale and fallen. He was sitting up in his bed,

0:01:16.640 --> 0:01:20.039
<v Speaker 1>struggling for breath. His body was covered with cold and

0:01:20.040 --> 0:01:23.720
<v Speaker 1>clammy sweats, and he had a most anxious and desponding look.

0:01:24.360 --> 0:01:28.360
<v Speaker 1>I immediately gave him large quantities of ether and laudanum.

0:01:28.959 --> 0:01:32.520
<v Speaker 1>These injections brought away from his bowels large quantities of

0:01:32.640 --> 0:01:36.440
<v Speaker 1>dark and hardened feces. They were repeated every day during

0:01:36.480 --> 0:01:39.960
<v Speaker 1>this month with the happiest effect. And it was astonishing

0:01:40.319 --> 0:01:44.080
<v Speaker 1>what masses of these dark and indurated feces were evacuated

0:01:44.200 --> 0:01:49.800
<v Speaker 1>during this time. September, he is much emaciated and exhausted

0:01:49.840 --> 0:01:53.640
<v Speaker 1>by want of sleep. The pain and swelling have pervaded

0:01:53.720 --> 0:01:57.320
<v Speaker 1>all his extremities. Opium can no longer lull his pain,

0:01:57.800 --> 0:02:00.559
<v Speaker 1>and nothing but death now seems to offer him any

0:02:00.600 --> 0:02:06.520
<v Speaker 1>hope of relief. Last entry, he is affected with arispolis

0:02:06.880 --> 0:02:11.280
<v Speaker 1>and is gradually sinking into a state of insensibility. In

0:02:11.320 --> 0:02:14.639
<v Speaker 1>this state he lingered until the thirteenth of September, when

0:02:14.680 --> 0:02:16.480
<v Speaker 1>he expired without a struggle.

0:03:02.160 --> 0:03:09.160
<v Speaker 2>Wow, Yeah, that is brutal. It's horrible.

0:03:09.840 --> 0:03:14.600
<v Speaker 1>So that is an account of dysentery. And it is

0:03:14.800 --> 0:03:19.000
<v Speaker 1>from a book titled Medical Sketches of the Campaigns of

0:03:19.040 --> 0:03:22.880
<v Speaker 1>eighteen twelve, thirteen and fourteen by James Mann and it

0:03:22.919 --> 0:03:28.000
<v Speaker 1>was published in eighteen sixteen. Hi, I'm Aaron Welsh.

0:03:27.520 --> 0:03:29.440
<v Speaker 2>And I'm Aaron Allman Updyke.

0:03:29.639 --> 0:03:31.880
<v Speaker 1>And this is this podcast will Kill You.

0:03:32.680 --> 0:03:38.640
<v Speaker 3>And well, so today we're covering dysentery. We are, But

0:03:38.840 --> 0:03:42.040
<v Speaker 3>that first handy count Aaron, when you read it, like,

0:03:42.120 --> 0:03:43.720
<v Speaker 3>it doesn't really.

0:03:43.440 --> 0:03:44.640
<v Speaker 2>Sound like dysentery.

0:03:45.960 --> 0:03:51.040
<v Speaker 1>Here's my thoughts because I kind of agree, But I

0:03:51.120 --> 0:03:52.960
<v Speaker 1>was like, you know what, Erin, you don't know anything

0:03:52.960 --> 0:03:57.280
<v Speaker 1>about the biology, leave that to Erin. So so like,

0:03:57.520 --> 0:04:01.040
<v Speaker 1>you know, just trust the physician from eighteen thirteen that

0:04:01.200 --> 0:04:03.680
<v Speaker 1>you know that he knew what he was doing. Yeah,

0:04:04.040 --> 0:04:07.320
<v Speaker 1>And the other thought I had is that, yeah, this

0:04:07.360 --> 0:04:10.600
<v Speaker 1>could have been any sort of diarrheal pathogen. But I

0:04:10.680 --> 0:04:13.360
<v Speaker 1>wonder if some of these symptoms were caused by the

0:04:13.400 --> 0:04:16.839
<v Speaker 1>things he was taking, like opium and that lead was

0:04:16.880 --> 0:04:20.880
<v Speaker 1>like a really popular treatment as well mercury.

0:04:21.040 --> 0:04:23.520
<v Speaker 3>So yeah, I don't know absolutely, because it sounds like

0:04:23.560 --> 0:04:27.640
<v Speaker 3>he was having a lot of issues losing weight in

0:04:27.760 --> 0:04:30.120
<v Speaker 3>a lot of pain and then was given a ton

0:04:30.160 --> 0:04:32.960
<v Speaker 3>of opium, which is gonna block you up really good.

0:04:33.520 --> 0:04:34.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so that's why.

0:04:34.640 --> 0:04:38.040
<v Speaker 3>Then his bowels became compacted.

0:04:38.200 --> 0:04:41.200
<v Speaker 1>Is that the word they used? I think what did

0:04:41.279 --> 0:04:47.920
<v Speaker 1>they say? Did they say obstinate? No, yes, obstinately costive?

0:04:48.560 --> 0:04:50.159
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, that'll do it.

0:04:52.080 --> 0:04:57.960
<v Speaker 1>But in any case, it is horrific. And yeah, but

0:04:58.040 --> 0:05:03.280
<v Speaker 1>also I think that, uh, let's see, the vagueness of

0:05:03.320 --> 0:05:05.720
<v Speaker 1>this first hand account or like the hard to pin

0:05:05.880 --> 0:05:09.440
<v Speaker 1>downness is kind of characteristic of the topic that we're

0:05:09.480 --> 0:05:14.560
<v Speaker 1>covering today. Absolutely, yeah, because dysentery, why do we do

0:05:14.600 --> 0:05:19.200
<v Speaker 1>this to ourselves? Again? Is not caused by one, not two,

0:05:19.279 --> 0:05:24.440
<v Speaker 1>but by several pathogens and parasites. So it's gonna be

0:05:24.480 --> 0:05:25.599
<v Speaker 1>an interesting ride.

0:05:25.839 --> 0:05:30.400
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, as always, as always, as always, Yeah, and as

0:05:30.440 --> 0:05:33.240
<v Speaker 3>always I believe that it's quarantiney time.

0:05:33.640 --> 0:05:36.440
<v Speaker 1>It is. What are we drinking this week?

0:05:36.760 --> 0:05:38.640
<v Speaker 2>We're drinking in flux.

0:05:40.000 --> 0:05:43.920
<v Speaker 1>So flux was the one of the old timy names

0:05:43.960 --> 0:05:46.240
<v Speaker 1>for this disease. I think it actually might still be

0:05:46.279 --> 0:05:50.120
<v Speaker 1>called flux in some places flux or the bloody flux.

0:05:50.760 --> 0:05:54.880
<v Speaker 1>And so you know, since the definition of dysentery has

0:05:55.000 --> 0:05:58.560
<v Speaker 1>kind of been in flux, that's what we're going with.

0:05:59.080 --> 0:06:03.440
<v Speaker 3>But Aaron what infos.

0:06:02.680 --> 0:06:06.679
<v Speaker 1>Well, I thought it would be kind of a nice

0:06:06.720 --> 0:06:10.320
<v Speaker 1>callback to the first hand account to include rhubarb. So

0:06:10.360 --> 0:06:15.520
<v Speaker 1>we're gonna do a rhubarb syrup plus some gin, plus

0:06:15.680 --> 0:06:21.560
<v Speaker 1>some sparkling water, strawberries and lime juice. Yum. And we

0:06:21.600 --> 0:06:25.080
<v Speaker 1>will post the full recipe for this quarantine as well

0:06:25.120 --> 0:06:28.520
<v Speaker 1>as the non alcoholic plus see burrita on our website

0:06:28.520 --> 0:06:30.960
<v Speaker 1>This podcast will kill You dot com, as well as

0:06:31.000 --> 0:06:32.680
<v Speaker 1>on all of our social media channels.

0:06:33.440 --> 0:06:35.640
<v Speaker 3>And speaking of our website, this podcast will kill You

0:06:35.680 --> 0:06:38.160
<v Speaker 3>dot Com. We just keep telling you guys to go there.

0:06:38.160 --> 0:06:40.240
<v Speaker 3>Have you gone there yet? It's really great. We have

0:06:40.560 --> 0:06:44.039
<v Speaker 3>a bookshop dot org link. We have a good Reads link,

0:06:44.080 --> 0:06:47.159
<v Speaker 3>we have links to Bloodmobile, our music, we have links

0:06:47.160 --> 0:06:50.560
<v Speaker 3>to our Patreon, to our merch to transcripts to all

0:06:50.560 --> 0:06:52.440
<v Speaker 3>of the sources from all of our episodes.

0:06:52.600 --> 0:06:53.120
<v Speaker 2>Wow.

0:06:54.000 --> 0:06:56.240
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's a It's a gold mine.

0:06:56.040 --> 0:06:59.960
<v Speaker 2>It really is. Yeah.

0:07:00.240 --> 0:07:03.320
<v Speaker 1>Do we have any other business erin I do?

0:07:04.440 --> 0:07:05.400
<v Speaker 2>I have a correction?

0:07:05.600 --> 0:07:08.800
<v Speaker 3>I wanted to point out that somebody emailed us and

0:07:08.839 --> 0:07:12.680
<v Speaker 3>I really appreciate this about One of our recent episodes

0:07:12.760 --> 0:07:14.960
<v Speaker 3>was on Legionnaire's disease and erin. You and I talked

0:07:14.960 --> 0:07:18.360
<v Speaker 3>a lot about atypical versus typical pneumonia.

0:07:18.480 --> 0:07:19.760
<v Speaker 1>I recall that conversation.

0:07:20.160 --> 0:07:22.840
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and how like poor of a definition it is.

0:07:23.600 --> 0:07:26.520
<v Speaker 3>It's still true. But a listener pointed out, and I

0:07:26.520 --> 0:07:31.040
<v Speaker 3>think this is important, is that today the term atypical

0:07:31.120 --> 0:07:34.680
<v Speaker 3>is mostly used to mean pneumonia that's caused by bacteria

0:07:34.720 --> 0:07:39.160
<v Speaker 3>that don't gram stain very well, rather than previously atypical

0:07:39.400 --> 0:07:43.000
<v Speaker 3>used to be like clinically a little different, or not

0:07:43.080 --> 0:07:46.440
<v Speaker 3>responding to antibiotics, or maybe radiographic differences. But like we

0:07:46.480 --> 0:07:49.760
<v Speaker 3>talked about in the episode, those are not good definitions

0:07:49.760 --> 0:07:54.200
<v Speaker 3>to distinguish different types of pneumonia. So at least the

0:07:54.240 --> 0:07:58.640
<v Speaker 3>way that we use it today is moderately better. Things

0:07:58.680 --> 0:08:01.560
<v Speaker 3>that don't Grant stain well. But again, some things that

0:08:01.640 --> 0:08:05.760
<v Speaker 3>are not considered atypical pneumonia's also don't Graham stain well.

0:08:06.680 --> 0:08:11.480
<v Speaker 3>But that's besides the point. It's still an imprecise term,

0:08:11.520 --> 0:08:13.040
<v Speaker 3>but it's at least a little bit better.

0:08:13.200 --> 0:08:16.520
<v Speaker 1>Okay, So it's more about the pathogen now than it

0:08:16.640 --> 0:08:19.320
<v Speaker 1>is about the symptoms or signs.

0:08:19.280 --> 0:08:23.440
<v Speaker 3>Right, like the clinical picture, gotcha, Okay, that's something.

0:08:23.840 --> 0:08:27.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so thank you again. That's all I got. Should

0:08:27.200 --> 0:08:28.880
<v Speaker 2>we dysenterry it up?

0:08:29.320 --> 0:08:31.720
<v Speaker 1>I think so. She feels like a fast intro, but

0:08:31.960 --> 0:08:33.320
<v Speaker 1>I'm here for it. Let's do it.

0:08:34.960 --> 0:08:36.760
<v Speaker 3>We'll take a quick break and then we'll dive in.

0:09:10.200 --> 0:09:12.319
<v Speaker 3>I'm going to go through this a little bit out

0:09:12.360 --> 0:09:16.320
<v Speaker 3>of order from my usual because, like you said, Aaron,

0:09:16.400 --> 0:09:22.720
<v Speaker 3>this isn't a very typical disease that we cover on

0:09:22.800 --> 0:09:23.480
<v Speaker 3>this podcast.

0:09:23.960 --> 0:09:26.000
<v Speaker 2>So first, what I'm going to do is cover kind.

0:09:25.800 --> 0:09:29.240
<v Speaker 3>Of the symptoms of dysentery. We'll talk about like what

0:09:29.280 --> 0:09:32.440
<v Speaker 3>does dysentery actually mean, and then I'll focus on a

0:09:32.480 --> 0:09:36.040
<v Speaker 3>few of the specific causes, and then Aaron, you can

0:09:36.080 --> 0:09:37.880
<v Speaker 3>ask me a million questions and I probably won't know

0:09:37.920 --> 0:09:38.640
<v Speaker 3>the answers. Cool.

0:09:39.080 --> 0:09:40.640
<v Speaker 1>I am very excited.

0:09:42.280 --> 0:09:42.640
<v Speaker 2>Okay.

0:09:42.760 --> 0:09:48.280
<v Speaker 3>So generally dysentery can be defined as bloody diarrhea.

0:09:49.080 --> 0:09:51.040
<v Speaker 2>Is that cool? Can we all be cool with that definition?

0:09:51.240 --> 0:09:52.160
<v Speaker 1>I mean, that's it, right?

0:09:52.280 --> 0:09:54.080
<v Speaker 2>Like pretty much? Yeah, pretty much?

0:09:54.160 --> 0:09:57.040
<v Speaker 3>Okay. Diarrhea we've talked about kind of a lot on

0:09:57.080 --> 0:10:00.400
<v Speaker 3>this podcast, although not for a while. The the World

0:10:00.400 --> 0:10:05.319
<v Speaker 3>Health Organization definition is three or more loose or liquid

0:10:05.320 --> 0:10:08.559
<v Speaker 3>stools in a twenty four hour period. But even that

0:10:08.600 --> 0:10:11.080
<v Speaker 3>definition is pretty loose. Huh.

0:10:13.160 --> 0:10:15.240
<v Speaker 2>I swear the whole episode's not going to be like this.

0:10:15.880 --> 0:10:17.240
<v Speaker 1>I think it absolutely is.

0:10:18.120 --> 0:10:22.440
<v Speaker 3>Oh, but it is a loose definition because everybody is

0:10:22.480 --> 0:10:25.920
<v Speaker 3>different in terms of their bowel movements, right, right, But

0:10:26.360 --> 0:10:30.000
<v Speaker 3>everyone has had diarrhea at some point, so everyone knows

0:10:30.080 --> 0:10:34.559
<v Speaker 3>what diarrhea feels like and what it means. So dysentery

0:10:34.800 --> 0:10:39.720
<v Speaker 3>is diarrhea with blood, visible blood, and often sometimes mucus

0:10:40.280 --> 0:10:41.080
<v Speaker 3>just for good measure.

0:10:41.559 --> 0:10:46.040
<v Speaker 1>Okay, So question about the blood, Okay, is it bright

0:10:46.120 --> 0:10:47.559
<v Speaker 1>red or is it black?

0:10:48.160 --> 0:10:52.080
<v Speaker 3>Good question? It could be either color. So part of

0:10:52.080 --> 0:10:55.560
<v Speaker 3>what you're asking gets at where is the blood coming

0:10:55.600 --> 0:10:57.280
<v Speaker 3>from in your gi tract?

0:10:57.520 --> 0:10:57.760
<v Speaker 1>Right?

0:10:57.960 --> 0:10:59.880
<v Speaker 2>So, black blood.

0:10:59.679 --> 0:11:02.560
<v Speaker 3>Usually means that the bleeding is coming from further up

0:11:02.720 --> 0:11:05.440
<v Speaker 3>in the digestive tract. So if you have bleeding in

0:11:05.480 --> 0:11:09.640
<v Speaker 3>your stomach, in your small intestine, those will usually be

0:11:09.720 --> 0:11:11.440
<v Speaker 3>black by the time they make it all the way

0:11:11.440 --> 0:11:14.840
<v Speaker 3>to your poop. If you have bleeding in most of

0:11:14.840 --> 0:11:18.240
<v Speaker 3>your colon, then that bleeding is more likely to be

0:11:18.280 --> 0:11:20.720
<v Speaker 3>bright red, although even if you bleed like a ton

0:11:20.920 --> 0:11:23.520
<v Speaker 3>from higher up, it'll end up bright red. It just

0:11:23.559 --> 0:11:25.599
<v Speaker 3>all depends on how long it transits.

0:11:26.080 --> 0:11:27.800
<v Speaker 2>Okay, okay, okay, So.

0:11:27.880 --> 0:11:30.920
<v Speaker 3>In the case of dysentery, it's probably going to be

0:11:31.640 --> 0:11:33.640
<v Speaker 3>I would say, a mixture of two, but more on

0:11:33.679 --> 0:11:36.960
<v Speaker 3>the red spectrum than the black spectrum. And that's because,

0:11:36.960 --> 0:11:41.080
<v Speaker 3>as we'll see, it tends to be a colitis picture,

0:11:41.200 --> 0:11:44.640
<v Speaker 3>and that means inflammation in the colon. So let's talk

0:11:44.640 --> 0:11:47.160
<v Speaker 3>a little more about it. In order to have blood

0:11:47.160 --> 0:11:50.360
<v Speaker 3>in your poop, it means that, in one way or another,

0:11:50.559 --> 0:11:55.000
<v Speaker 3>your gut is very unhappy. Of course, in the case

0:11:55.040 --> 0:11:58.680
<v Speaker 3>of dysentery, what it means is that you have some

0:11:58.800 --> 0:12:04.480
<v Speaker 3>kind of severe inflammation going on, whether it's from a bacteria,

0:12:04.760 --> 0:12:08.680
<v Speaker 3>a virus, a parasite, or even in some cases no

0:12:08.800 --> 0:12:09.959
<v Speaker 3>pathogens whatsoever.

0:12:10.320 --> 0:12:12.320
<v Speaker 2>So you can have a septic.

0:12:11.960 --> 0:12:18.920
<v Speaker 3>Inflammatory bowel disease like Crohn's disease, or ul sort of colitis. Okay, okay,

0:12:19.080 --> 0:12:23.240
<v Speaker 3>So these are autoimmune mediated conditions that cause massive inflammation

0:12:23.400 --> 0:12:27.119
<v Speaker 3>of the colon that lead to bloody diarrhea aka dysentery.

0:12:28.880 --> 0:12:32.040
<v Speaker 3>So any of these different things can cause dysentery. We're

0:12:32.040 --> 0:12:35.920
<v Speaker 3>going to focus today really on just the pathogenic types

0:12:35.960 --> 0:12:38.880
<v Speaker 3>of dysentery, and I'm going to focus even more specifically

0:12:38.920 --> 0:12:42.040
<v Speaker 3>on two major causes of dysentery, but we'll get to

0:12:42.040 --> 0:12:44.400
<v Speaker 3>that in a second. Let's focus on the symptoms, shall we.

0:12:45.880 --> 0:12:49.320
<v Speaker 3>So you can imagine that if you have a very

0:12:49.400 --> 0:12:54.160
<v Speaker 3>inflamed angry gut wall that is so inflamed that it's

0:12:54.480 --> 0:12:57.680
<v Speaker 3>bleeding large enough amounts of blood that it's visible in

0:12:57.720 --> 0:12:59.720
<v Speaker 3>your stools. Because if you just have a little blood

0:12:59.800 --> 0:13:03.160
<v Speaker 3>you you won't notice it. You can imagine that this

0:13:03.240 --> 0:13:07.120
<v Speaker 3>is a very painful process. So dysentery, like a lot

0:13:07.160 --> 0:13:11.640
<v Speaker 3>of other diarrheas, are often accompanied by major abdominal cramping.

0:13:12.920 --> 0:13:17.280
<v Speaker 3>And because today we're focusing on infectious dysentery, it's also

0:13:17.360 --> 0:13:21.160
<v Speaker 3>common to have a fever, which of course causes total

0:13:21.200 --> 0:13:24.760
<v Speaker 3>body pain. So with dysentery, you're often in terrible pain.

0:13:25.600 --> 0:13:28.920
<v Speaker 3>You're pooping like crazy, you have this diarrhea, you have

0:13:29.000 --> 0:13:33.280
<v Speaker 3>abdominal cramps. Often with this type of diarrhea, you have

0:13:33.360 --> 0:13:35.800
<v Speaker 3>a lot of urgency, you know, that feeling like you

0:13:35.920 --> 0:13:38.920
<v Speaker 3>have to go. It's like right this instant, and then

0:13:38.960 --> 0:13:41.000
<v Speaker 3>it's going to be explosive and it's going to be painful.

0:13:41.520 --> 0:13:44.160
<v Speaker 3>And with any type of diarrhea, one of the biggest

0:13:44.200 --> 0:13:49.640
<v Speaker 3>issues is how much fluid you can lose your large intestines.

0:13:49.760 --> 0:13:53.160
<v Speaker 3>One job, really like it's one job, is to absorb

0:13:53.280 --> 0:13:55.280
<v Speaker 3>all of the water back from your stool so that

0:13:55.320 --> 0:14:00.280
<v Speaker 3>we don't get dehydrated. And in massive diarrhea or in dysentery,

0:14:00.320 --> 0:14:03.680
<v Speaker 3>that mechanism is destroyed, so you're just losing water through

0:14:03.679 --> 0:14:06.760
<v Speaker 3>your behind. And so that's one of the major causes

0:14:06.760 --> 0:14:08.359
<v Speaker 3>of death is just from dehydration.

0:14:08.960 --> 0:14:13.240
<v Speaker 1>Okay, so you stated the definition of diarrhea as being

0:14:13.320 --> 0:14:15.800
<v Speaker 1>three loose stools in a period of twenty four hours,

0:14:16.240 --> 0:14:21.520
<v Speaker 1>but four dysentery? Is it three? Is it nine? Is

0:14:21.560 --> 0:14:23.920
<v Speaker 1>it fifteen? Is it fifty?

0:14:24.000 --> 0:14:25.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so there's no number on it.

0:14:25.320 --> 0:14:28.360
<v Speaker 3>It's just if those three loose stools have blood and

0:14:28.520 --> 0:14:31.320
<v Speaker 3>or mucus in them, now you'd call that a dysentery

0:14:31.480 --> 0:14:34.000
<v Speaker 3>rather like a regular old diarrhea.

0:14:34.400 --> 0:14:38.360
<v Speaker 2>Okay, yeah, right, okay, yeah, great question.

0:14:39.800 --> 0:14:44.720
<v Speaker 3>So, yeah, dehydration is one of the biggest concerns and complications,

0:14:45.160 --> 0:14:47.560
<v Speaker 3>but of course it's this podcast, so there are more

0:14:47.560 --> 0:14:51.120
<v Speaker 3>things that can go wrong. Of course, with dysentery and

0:14:51.240 --> 0:14:54.840
<v Speaker 3>other types of diarrhea, like non bloody diarrhea, you also

0:14:54.960 --> 0:14:59.200
<v Speaker 3>lose a ton of electrolytes. You're losing sodium. You're losing chloride,

0:14:59.600 --> 0:15:02.840
<v Speaker 3>and so this can cause problems when your electrolytes then

0:15:02.920 --> 0:15:05.280
<v Speaker 3>get out of whack, So you can end up with

0:15:05.400 --> 0:15:08.960
<v Speaker 3>heart arrhythmias because of problems with your potassium. You can

0:15:09.040 --> 0:15:13.280
<v Speaker 3>end up with neurologic problems because of the lack of sodium.

0:15:13.440 --> 0:15:17.600
<v Speaker 3>And with dysentery, which is different than other forms of diarrhea, you're.

0:15:17.480 --> 0:15:19.680
<v Speaker 2>Losing a lot of blood. So there's a risk of.

0:15:19.720 --> 0:15:23.920
<v Speaker 3>Anemia, especially in the cases of more chronic dysentery, like

0:15:23.960 --> 0:15:26.080
<v Speaker 3>a prolonged diarrhea.

0:15:26.040 --> 0:15:27.480
<v Speaker 1>Right, like the guy on our first hand.

0:15:27.360 --> 0:15:29.880
<v Speaker 3>Account exactly, And so that's how you get, like you

0:15:29.920 --> 0:15:33.560
<v Speaker 3>heard in our first hand account, this kind of muscle wasting, malnutrition,

0:15:34.040 --> 0:15:36.320
<v Speaker 3>and you're just sort of wasting away because you're not

0:15:36.480 --> 0:15:38.200
<v Speaker 3>able to absorb anything.

0:15:38.720 --> 0:15:41.240
<v Speaker 1>Right, how much blood are we talking?

0:15:42.080 --> 0:15:42.880
<v Speaker 2>It's a good question.

0:15:42.920 --> 0:15:45.560
<v Speaker 3>There's no like number or amount on it that would

0:15:45.600 --> 0:15:49.000
<v Speaker 3>qualify something as dysentery versus not. It's really not a

0:15:49.560 --> 0:15:54.840
<v Speaker 3>like strict definition, okay, yeah, And different sources would give

0:15:54.840 --> 0:15:57.840
<v Speaker 3>you like slightly different definitions. I think even so the

0:15:57.880 --> 0:16:00.520
<v Speaker 3>most general would be just to say bloody die diarrhea.

0:16:02.080 --> 0:16:04.840
<v Speaker 3>And then, of course, because today we're going to focus

0:16:04.880 --> 0:16:08.360
<v Speaker 3>on infectious causes of dysentery. There's always a risk of

0:16:08.400 --> 0:16:12.000
<v Speaker 3>this infection spreading beyond the gut itself, so that even

0:16:12.000 --> 0:16:14.920
<v Speaker 3>if it's not the dehydration or the malnutrition that ends

0:16:14.960 --> 0:16:16.800
<v Speaker 3>up killing you, you could end up with a more

0:16:16.840 --> 0:16:22.320
<v Speaker 3>widespread infection. So let's get into these specific bugs. There's

0:16:22.360 --> 0:16:25.920
<v Speaker 3>a lot of different bugs that can cause bloody diarrhea,

0:16:27.000 --> 0:16:31.520
<v Speaker 3>and like I mentioned, even non infectious things. It's possible

0:16:31.520 --> 0:16:34.920
<v Speaker 3>that viruses can cause bloody diarrhea, but it's not super

0:16:34.920 --> 0:16:40.560
<v Speaker 3>common because in general, viruses just cause regular diarrhea, not dysentery.

0:16:40.640 --> 0:16:43.680
<v Speaker 3>It's possible that parasitic worms, like maybe even some we've

0:16:43.680 --> 0:16:47.760
<v Speaker 3>already talked about, like hookworm or maybe tapeworms, These could

0:16:47.760 --> 0:16:52.440
<v Speaker 3>potentially cause bloody diarrhea. But most commonly there's two things

0:16:52.440 --> 0:16:57.000
<v Speaker 3>that cause bloody diarrhea. There's bacteria that cause bloody diarrhea,

0:16:57.280 --> 0:16:59.920
<v Speaker 3>and there's an amoeba that causes dysentery.

0:17:00.320 --> 0:17:02.880
<v Speaker 2>Mm hmm. We've already talked about one.

0:17:02.680 --> 0:17:05.840
<v Speaker 3>Of these bacteria that are a very common cause of dysentery,

0:17:05.880 --> 0:17:09.919
<v Speaker 3>and that is ecoli, right, right, So some forms of

0:17:09.920 --> 0:17:15.680
<v Speaker 3>ecoli are massive causes worldwide of dysentery. There are lots

0:17:15.680 --> 0:17:20.160
<v Speaker 3>of other bacteria, Salmonella we talked about typhoid already, which

0:17:20.200 --> 0:17:24.200
<v Speaker 3>is a form of salmonilla that can definitely cause bloody diarrhea.

0:17:24.280 --> 0:17:28.479
<v Speaker 3>Also Camplobacter, which is another bacteria. There's two that we're

0:17:28.520 --> 0:17:32.080
<v Speaker 3>going to focus on today because they're the leading ladies.

0:17:32.520 --> 0:17:36.760
<v Speaker 1>Well, and I think also like historically these two were

0:17:36.800 --> 0:17:42.440
<v Speaker 1>the ones that caused classic dysentery. Typhoid had its own thing, right,

0:17:43.119 --> 0:17:46.560
<v Speaker 1>had its own name, and so if you were to

0:17:46.680 --> 0:17:51.200
<v Speaker 1>find a treatise on dysentery, it would probably be these

0:17:51.240 --> 0:17:54.520
<v Speaker 1>guys would cause the vast majority, or these leading ladies

0:17:54.560 --> 0:17:58.200
<v Speaker 1>would cause have caused the vast majority of them.

0:17:58.480 --> 0:17:59.639
<v Speaker 2>I think so too.

0:17:59.680 --> 0:18:02.479
<v Speaker 3>It's that's why we're focusing on them today. And that

0:18:02.640 --> 0:18:09.680
<v Speaker 3>is Shigella uh huh and an amiba entamoba histolytica. These

0:18:09.760 --> 0:18:14.359
<v Speaker 3>are the two major causes of bassillary and amobic dysentery.

0:18:15.359 --> 0:18:18.600
<v Speaker 3>All right, I'm excited about this. So let's start with

0:18:18.760 --> 0:18:24.280
<v Speaker 3>amoebic dysentery and then we'll talk about sigalosis or dysentery

0:18:24.280 --> 0:18:26.720
<v Speaker 3>from shigella, and then we'll just like wrap up and

0:18:26.760 --> 0:18:28.879
<v Speaker 3>you can ask me questions I don't know the answer to.

0:18:28.960 --> 0:18:32.720
<v Speaker 2>Okay, okay, uh okay.

0:18:32.800 --> 0:18:36.320
<v Speaker 3>I found this one seminar from the Lancet in two

0:18:36.320 --> 0:18:38.679
<v Speaker 3>thousand and three, so it's a little bit old, but

0:18:38.960 --> 0:18:41.320
<v Speaker 3>I just really liked this quote. I never read quotes.

0:18:41.359 --> 0:18:42.720
<v Speaker 3>I'm going to read you a quote ready.

0:18:42.880 --> 0:18:43.639
<v Speaker 1>Ooh yeah.

0:18:44.400 --> 0:18:49.120
<v Speaker 3>Few pathogens are more aptly named than en amiba histolytica,

0:18:49.480 --> 0:18:54.080
<v Speaker 3>the tissue licing amiba that causes amobic colitis and amobic

0:18:54.200 --> 0:18:58.200
<v Speaker 3>liver abscess. Think of this protozoan parasite as a macrophage

0:18:58.200 --> 0:19:03.600
<v Speaker 3>on steroids with pumped up phagastic, proteolytic and cytolytic capabilities,

0:19:03.920 --> 0:19:08.399
<v Speaker 3>invading human colonic mucosa and occasionally penetrating through to the

0:19:08.440 --> 0:19:12.880
<v Speaker 3>portal circulation, reaching the liver and causing fatal abscesses.

0:19:14.320 --> 0:19:18.680
<v Speaker 1>WHOA, I dig the voice. If you wanted a career

0:19:18.720 --> 0:19:21.560
<v Speaker 1>as a movie voiceover, I think you've got one.

0:19:22.359 --> 0:19:23.119
<v Speaker 2>Thank you, thank you.

0:19:23.359 --> 0:19:26.880
<v Speaker 1>But also I loved that. I love that quote because

0:19:27.200 --> 0:19:32.480
<v Speaker 1>it really aptly describes and tomba histolytica. Plus it does

0:19:32.480 --> 0:19:34.639
<v Speaker 1>the etymology so I don't have to do it. Yeah,

0:19:34.680 --> 0:19:35.320
<v Speaker 1>it's it's.

0:19:35.160 --> 0:19:36.480
<v Speaker 2>The whole thing. I really love it.

0:19:36.520 --> 0:19:42.000
<v Speaker 3>Shout out doctor Samuel Stanley, excellent work. My biology is

0:19:42.000 --> 0:19:45.840
<v Speaker 3>done right. Just kidding because a lot of those words,

0:19:45.880 --> 0:19:50.000
<v Speaker 3>people are probably like, I'm sorry, let's talk about it more.

0:19:49.840 --> 0:19:52.960
<v Speaker 2>Clearly, let's go over it. So this particular.

0:19:52.480 --> 0:19:56.480
<v Speaker 3>Amiba and Tomba histolytica has a simpler life cycle than

0:19:56.640 --> 0:20:00.879
<v Speaker 3>the last amba we talked about. Nagleia faleri. Amoeba exists

0:20:00.920 --> 0:20:04.720
<v Speaker 3>in two forms in the environment as a cyst and

0:20:04.800 --> 0:20:07.360
<v Speaker 3>this is the form that is infectious to humans when

0:20:07.359 --> 0:20:11.160
<v Speaker 3>we ingest it. After we ingest it, it passes through

0:20:11.200 --> 0:20:16.160
<v Speaker 3>our stomach, survives our stomach, acid, travels down our small intestine,

0:20:16.320 --> 0:20:19.440
<v Speaker 3>reaches our terminal ilium or our colon.

0:20:19.720 --> 0:20:21.680
<v Speaker 2>So those are the two places where.

0:20:21.480 --> 0:20:26.320
<v Speaker 3>It exists and becomes a trophozoite like the amoeba shaped

0:20:26.440 --> 0:20:30.359
<v Speaker 3>version of an amiba, and that's where it lives. It

0:20:30.440 --> 0:20:33.879
<v Speaker 3>replicates by binary fission, so it just divides and it

0:20:34.000 --> 0:20:38.720
<v Speaker 3>just lives kindly in our colon, munching on bacteria, which

0:20:38.720 --> 0:20:40.840
<v Speaker 3>our guts are full of. We have plenty of bacteria

0:20:40.880 --> 0:20:42.919
<v Speaker 3>for them to eat. And then it also eats our

0:20:42.960 --> 0:20:47.720
<v Speaker 3>food and it's fine right until it's not. I was

0:20:47.760 --> 0:20:50.520
<v Speaker 3>gonna say, I don't think so yeah, it's fine until

0:20:50.520 --> 0:20:53.840
<v Speaker 3>it's not because it doesn't stop there. It's not satisfied

0:20:53.840 --> 0:20:59.040
<v Speaker 3>with just eating our food remnants and our commensal bacteria. Instead,

0:20:59.119 --> 0:21:02.640
<v Speaker 3>once it's in our gus, it attaches to the epithelium

0:21:02.760 --> 0:21:07.719
<v Speaker 3>of our colon. It immobilizes those cells, and then it

0:21:07.880 --> 0:21:12.360
<v Speaker 3>just kills them. It just lices them open and kills them,

0:21:12.920 --> 0:21:16.399
<v Speaker 3>and then it invades its way, burrows its way through

0:21:16.480 --> 0:21:21.680
<v Speaker 3>our mucosa and into the submucosa of our gutlaw, why.

0:21:21.480 --> 0:21:22.440
<v Speaker 2>Does it do this? Aaron?

0:21:22.800 --> 0:21:26.720
<v Speaker 3>I was just about to ask, I honestly want to

0:21:26.800 --> 0:21:30.560
<v Speaker 3>know from what I read, it's not fully understood, like

0:21:30.680 --> 0:21:34.480
<v Speaker 3>what exactly are the triggers that cause this adherence and invasion?

0:21:35.720 --> 0:21:38.520
<v Speaker 3>Because the thing is only about ten to twenty percent

0:21:38.560 --> 0:21:41.600
<v Speaker 3>of people who get infected with Antamyba hystolytica will end

0:21:41.680 --> 0:21:45.399
<v Speaker 3>up having symptoms. A lot of people are infected and

0:21:45.560 --> 0:21:51.359
<v Speaker 3>entirely asymptomatic. And you're not asymptomatic if it's invading your submucosa.

0:21:51.040 --> 0:21:54.679
<v Speaker 1>Right, okay? And by infected, do you mean that like

0:21:54.800 --> 0:21:56.080
<v Speaker 1>they're shedding.

0:21:56.160 --> 0:21:59.320
<v Speaker 3>They're shedding cysts and you can find trophozoites in their

0:21:59.359 --> 0:22:01.840
<v Speaker 3>poop as well, and that's how it has to complete

0:22:01.840 --> 0:22:04.280
<v Speaker 3>its life cycle, right, it has to go back into

0:22:04.320 --> 0:22:06.680
<v Speaker 3>its cyst form. You have to poop out those cysts

0:22:06.880 --> 0:22:09.680
<v Speaker 3>so they can then travel to find another host via

0:22:09.760 --> 0:22:14.000
<v Speaker 3>water or whatever. So it's a really interesting, like evolutionary question.

0:22:14.040 --> 0:22:16.800
<v Speaker 3>What is the drive to seek out deeper spaces in

0:22:16.840 --> 0:22:19.800
<v Speaker 3>our body and why do they have the capacity to

0:22:19.840 --> 0:22:21.960
<v Speaker 3>do all of this damage to our tissues.

0:22:23.000 --> 0:22:29.000
<v Speaker 1>It's really interesting because like, do people who are symptomatically

0:22:29.040 --> 0:22:34.400
<v Speaker 1>infected shed more amibe than those who are just asymptomatically

0:22:34.440 --> 0:22:35.360
<v Speaker 1>chronically infected.

0:22:35.600 --> 0:22:39.040
<v Speaker 3>That's a good question. I'm not sure. I didn't see

0:22:39.080 --> 0:22:42.120
<v Speaker 3>any papers specifically addressing that, but it's an interesting thought

0:22:42.160 --> 0:22:44.680
<v Speaker 3>because if you have diarrhea, then yeah, you probably are

0:22:44.720 --> 0:22:47.720
<v Speaker 3>shedding a lot more of whatever it is that you're shedding,

0:22:48.560 --> 0:22:51.480
<v Speaker 3>But then if it kills you because of that, then

0:22:51.760 --> 0:22:55.080
<v Speaker 3>you're going to stop shedding, whereas if you're infected chronically.

0:22:55.840 --> 0:22:57.760
<v Speaker 3>So maybe it's a trade off between how long they're

0:22:57.840 --> 0:23:00.600
<v Speaker 3>able to persist in someone before our immunes system shuts

0:23:00.640 --> 0:23:04.360
<v Speaker 3>them down, versus causing massive infection but getting a lot

0:23:04.400 --> 0:23:05.480
<v Speaker 3>out into the environment.

0:23:05.960 --> 0:23:08.080
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, diseases trade offs.

0:23:08.440 --> 0:23:12.360
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, but we can talk about sort of the ramifications

0:23:12.359 --> 0:23:16.399
<v Speaker 3>of what happens when they do this burrowing, because spoiler alert,

0:23:17.080 --> 0:23:17.720
<v Speaker 3>it's not good.

0:23:17.920 --> 0:23:18.600
<v Speaker 2>It's horrible.

0:23:18.840 --> 0:23:21.440
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, And if you thought the bloody diarrhea part was bad,

0:23:21.960 --> 0:23:25.479
<v Speaker 3>it gets a lot worse. There's a vein in our

0:23:25.520 --> 0:23:28.320
<v Speaker 3>bodies called the portal vein that drains blood from your

0:23:28.320 --> 0:23:30.480
<v Speaker 3>small intestine and the right side of your colon are

0:23:30.600 --> 0:23:34.120
<v Speaker 3>large intestine directly to the liver. So as the samiba,

0:23:34.119 --> 0:23:36.600
<v Speaker 3>which we know is in the right side of your

0:23:36.600 --> 0:23:39.720
<v Speaker 3>small intestine or large intestine, as it burrows its way

0:23:39.760 --> 0:23:42.320
<v Speaker 3>through the mucosa and sepucosa, it can end up right

0:23:42.359 --> 0:23:45.560
<v Speaker 3>in these blood vessels, hops straight on that portal vein

0:23:45.680 --> 0:23:49.520
<v Speaker 3>highway and take the first exit to the liver. So

0:23:49.640 --> 0:23:52.199
<v Speaker 3>the liver is the number one site of what we

0:23:52.280 --> 0:23:57.000
<v Speaker 3>call extra intestinal outside of the intestine infection with ntomba histolytica,

0:23:58.359 --> 0:24:01.920
<v Speaker 3>and it can be very severe because in the liver,

0:24:02.119 --> 0:24:04.840
<v Speaker 3>what it does is it kills off chunks of our

0:24:04.880 --> 0:24:07.119
<v Speaker 3>liver cells the same way that it kills off the

0:24:07.160 --> 0:24:11.919
<v Speaker 3>epithelium of our intestine. But then our liver, in trying

0:24:11.960 --> 0:24:17.359
<v Speaker 3>to protect itself, walls off these amoba, essentially forming an abscess.

0:24:17.560 --> 0:24:20.880
<v Speaker 3>Within the liver, and so depending on how many amiba

0:24:20.920 --> 0:24:23.920
<v Speaker 3>you have and how large these abscesses can get, this

0:24:24.000 --> 0:24:27.880
<v Speaker 3>is a common cause of death in people with antomba

0:24:27.920 --> 0:24:31.960
<v Speaker 3>histilitica who progress to liver abscess It can be very serious,

0:24:33.840 --> 0:24:37.960
<v Speaker 3>and it's not limited to just the liver, right This

0:24:38.280 --> 0:24:41.440
<v Speaker 3>amiba can theoretically travel anywhere in our body through any

0:24:41.480 --> 0:24:43.600
<v Speaker 3>blood vessel that it makes it into, So it's not

0:24:43.720 --> 0:24:47.639
<v Speaker 3>uncommon to find similar kinds of abscesses in the lungs

0:24:48.680 --> 0:24:53.080
<v Speaker 3>or in exceedingly rare cases, in the brain. That's horrific,

0:24:53.480 --> 0:24:58.440
<v Speaker 3>it is, but at least the brain is very very rare,

0:24:58.560 --> 0:25:00.719
<v Speaker 3>like less than zero point one percent of people with

0:25:00.880 --> 0:25:03.600
<v Speaker 3>liver abscesses have brain abscesses.

0:25:03.640 --> 0:25:05.320
<v Speaker 2>And it's okay, almost.

0:25:05.000 --> 0:25:07.600
<v Speaker 3>Never that you would get a brain absess without first

0:25:07.600 --> 0:25:10.160
<v Speaker 3>having liver abscessed, since that's the number one site.

0:25:10.400 --> 0:25:13.679
<v Speaker 1>So can you break down what those complications are like

0:25:13.720 --> 0:25:17.000
<v Speaker 1>in terms of the proportion of people who are You know,

0:25:17.080 --> 0:25:20.359
<v Speaker 1>if ten to twenty percent of people are symptomatic, what

0:25:20.600 --> 0:25:25.119
<v Speaker 1>percentage of those would have like the liver manifestations and

0:25:25.160 --> 0:25:27.360
<v Speaker 1>then the other abscesses develop and so on.

0:25:28.280 --> 0:25:32.000
<v Speaker 3>It's actually more common than I realized, especially if someone

0:25:32.200 --> 0:25:37.239
<v Speaker 3>has the diarrhea like is symptomatic with amoebic colitis. In

0:25:37.280 --> 0:25:40.840
<v Speaker 3>those cases, one source that I found set up to

0:25:40.880 --> 0:25:44.080
<v Speaker 3>seventy five percent of people that have the colitis will

0:25:44.119 --> 0:25:45.919
<v Speaker 3>also then have liver abscesses.

0:25:46.640 --> 0:25:47.120
<v Speaker 2>Wow.

0:25:47.400 --> 0:25:50.320
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so it's kind of like once this thing starts invading,

0:25:50.520 --> 0:25:55.800
<v Speaker 3>it's really able to invade. Sure, So that's amoebic dysentery.

0:25:56.680 --> 0:25:59.240
<v Speaker 1>I have a question before we move on to Okay,

0:25:59.560 --> 0:26:04.760
<v Speaker 1>what is that shigella? So I really want to go

0:26:04.880 --> 0:26:08.080
<v Speaker 1>back to that ten to twenty percent of people and so,

0:26:08.359 --> 0:26:12.240
<v Speaker 1>like I assume there have been studies looking at the

0:26:12.280 --> 0:26:16.640
<v Speaker 1>breakdown of people who are symptomatic versus asymptomatic. Are there

0:26:16.680 --> 0:26:18.000
<v Speaker 1>any patterns?

0:26:18.560 --> 0:26:21.240
<v Speaker 3>So yes, there there's a lot of things that are

0:26:21.280 --> 0:26:23.480
<v Speaker 3>like risk factors for people who will then go on

0:26:23.600 --> 0:26:27.480
<v Speaker 3>to have severe disease or this colitis. Some things are

0:26:27.680 --> 0:26:31.600
<v Speaker 3>like if you're unfortunately, kids tend to have worse outcomes

0:26:32.320 --> 0:26:37.040
<v Speaker 3>with all kinds of dysentery. Also, malnutrition is a huge one.

0:26:37.880 --> 0:26:43.520
<v Speaker 3>But what's interesting is that amoebic dysentery specifically really tends

0:26:43.520 --> 0:26:47.200
<v Speaker 3>to be associated with very poor living conditions and with impoverishment.

0:26:48.640 --> 0:26:51.760
<v Speaker 3>So how much that's also associated with things like malnutrition

0:26:52.200 --> 0:26:54.879
<v Speaker 3>or maybe like a very high amobic load because you're

0:26:54.920 --> 0:27:01.200
<v Speaker 3>being repeatedly exposed. But kids tend to be have poor outcomes,

0:27:01.960 --> 0:27:06.719
<v Speaker 3>and people who are otherwise malnourished or have other like

0:27:06.800 --> 0:27:09.520
<v Speaker 3>pre existing conditions that would leave them immunosuppressed.

0:27:10.240 --> 0:27:14.120
<v Speaker 1>Right, Okay, that makes sense, Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah.

0:27:14.359 --> 0:27:17.600
<v Speaker 1>I also wonder about the role of and this probably

0:27:17.640 --> 0:27:21.080
<v Speaker 1>relates also to shigella, but the role of the gut

0:27:21.119 --> 0:27:23.720
<v Speaker 1>microbiome in oh Aaron.

0:27:23.920 --> 0:27:26.320
<v Speaker 2>We'll talk a little bit about that later because it's.

0:27:26.240 --> 0:27:31.080
<v Speaker 3>Really interesting, Okay, wonderful, definitely, Uh, it's super interesting. But

0:27:31.119 --> 0:27:33.720
<v Speaker 3>what's also interesting, especially in looking at the kind of

0:27:33.800 --> 0:27:39.760
<v Speaker 3>overall worldwide prevalence of colonization with Antamba histalytica, is that

0:27:40.600 --> 0:27:42.840
<v Speaker 3>not that long ago, and I don't have an exact

0:27:42.920 --> 0:27:45.560
<v Speaker 3>date on it, but not that long.

0:27:45.440 --> 0:27:47.120
<v Speaker 2>Ago, it was discovered that there's.

0:27:46.960 --> 0:27:50.840
<v Speaker 3>Another amiba that looks identical to Antemyba histalytica.

0:27:50.960 --> 0:27:52.280
<v Speaker 2>It's called Ntemyba.

0:27:51.920 --> 0:27:57.000
<v Speaker 3>Die spar and that colonizes people but doesn't cause any disease.

0:27:57.119 --> 0:28:00.359
<v Speaker 3>It doesn't cause dysentery. And so it's thought that some

0:28:00.600 --> 0:28:04.520
<v Speaker 3>at least earlier prevalence studies that we're just looking for

0:28:04.560 --> 0:28:09.679
<v Speaker 3>amiba in the stool, can't distinguish between these two different species,

0:28:10.080 --> 0:28:13.639
<v Speaker 3>and so our estimates of overall like prevalence might be

0:28:13.760 --> 0:28:15.520
<v Speaker 3>off in some cases.

0:28:16.720 --> 0:28:21.199
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Yeah, no, I have come across similar stuff. But

0:28:21.280 --> 0:28:26.040
<v Speaker 1>I also wonder if you find an amiba in the

0:28:26.080 --> 0:28:28.440
<v Speaker 1>stool of some in like the bloody stool of somebody,

0:28:28.520 --> 0:28:30.640
<v Speaker 1>it's likely that the bloody stool is being caused by

0:28:30.680 --> 0:28:35.000
<v Speaker 1>that and not coinfection with Well, that's the question, is

0:28:35.320 --> 0:28:39.560
<v Speaker 1>is it because Antamoba histolytica exists both in the same

0:28:39.680 --> 0:28:43.200
<v Speaker 1>areas where Antimoba dice bar does and under the same

0:28:43.240 --> 0:28:44.440
<v Speaker 1>conditions that other.

0:28:44.320 --> 0:28:46.760
<v Speaker 3>Forms of dysentery do. So then you have to ask

0:28:46.800 --> 0:28:49.960
<v Speaker 3>the question of, like, you know, what does the clinical

0:28:50.000 --> 0:28:53.400
<v Speaker 3>picture look like. So let's get into what bacillary dysentery

0:28:53.440 --> 0:28:55.320
<v Speaker 3>looks like, and then we can kind of compare and

0:28:55.360 --> 0:28:58.760
<v Speaker 3>contrast what these two diseases look like to see if

0:28:58.800 --> 0:29:01.600
<v Speaker 3>you can tell if they're different. Yeah, because one thing

0:29:01.640 --> 0:29:04.520
<v Speaker 3>I forgot to mention this is I guess the spoiler

0:29:04.600 --> 0:29:08.360
<v Speaker 3>now is that amoebic dysentery, like the time course of

0:29:08.400 --> 0:29:12.120
<v Speaker 3>disease can be really prolonged. I didn't get a great

0:29:12.200 --> 0:29:15.800
<v Speaker 3>number on the exact incubation period, but the course of

0:29:15.840 --> 0:29:19.040
<v Speaker 3>disease itself can be kind of insidious and last for

0:29:19.080 --> 0:29:22.640
<v Speaker 3>a number of weeks. So it's not like a all

0:29:22.680 --> 0:29:24.840
<v Speaker 3>of a sudden, you're having diarrhea and you're pooping your

0:29:24.840 --> 0:29:27.040
<v Speaker 3>brains out like crazy and you have a high fever.

0:29:27.480 --> 0:29:30.160
<v Speaker 2>It's not as much of that kind of a picture.

0:29:30.760 --> 0:29:36.600
<v Speaker 3>So Shigella is a genus of bacteria in the family Enterobacteryca.

0:29:38.160 --> 0:29:41.680
<v Speaker 3>There's a number of different species, at least four different species.

0:29:42.120 --> 0:29:46.320
<v Speaker 3>Within those species, there are multiple serotypes, and these different

0:29:46.360 --> 0:29:50.040
<v Speaker 3>species and serotypes cause a really wide range of disease,

0:29:50.160 --> 0:29:54.440
<v Speaker 3>from a mild diarrhea without any blood to very severe

0:29:54.520 --> 0:29:59.360
<v Speaker 3>dysentery with a substantial case fatality rate. Some species, like

0:29:59.440 --> 0:30:05.600
<v Speaker 3>Shigella dysineria are known to cause massive epidemics, especially after

0:30:05.680 --> 0:30:11.000
<v Speaker 3>times of upheaval or after natural disasters, whereas other species

0:30:11.080 --> 0:30:16.360
<v Speaker 3>like Shigella flexneri tend to cause more endemic illness. And

0:30:16.400 --> 0:30:18.240
<v Speaker 3>then there are a couple of other species that are

0:30:18.280 --> 0:30:20.280
<v Speaker 3>just tend to be a little bit more mild but

0:30:20.360 --> 0:30:23.680
<v Speaker 3>can still cause dysentery under the right conditions. Ah okay,

0:30:24.000 --> 0:30:27.560
<v Speaker 3>So these are a gram negative rod shaped bacteria, hence

0:30:27.600 --> 0:30:30.760
<v Speaker 3>the term bacillary, which I think we talked about in

0:30:30.800 --> 0:30:35.600
<v Speaker 3>our Legionnaire's episode. They're transmitted either from fecal oral contact

0:30:35.760 --> 0:30:38.280
<v Speaker 3>or any kind of person to person contact where poop

0:30:38.400 --> 0:30:45.040
<v Speaker 3>is involved, from infected water, from food borne contamination, and

0:30:45.160 --> 0:30:50.600
<v Speaker 3>in general these species are super infectious because Shigella survives

0:30:50.640 --> 0:30:53.360
<v Speaker 3>the passage through our stomach very well. So as few

0:30:53.360 --> 0:30:57.920
<v Speaker 3>as ten to one hundred individual bacteria can infect a person.

0:30:58.320 --> 0:31:01.440
<v Speaker 1>It's wild how few it takes.

0:31:01.680 --> 0:31:03.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's terrifying, truly.

0:31:04.840 --> 0:31:07.440
<v Speaker 3>So it has pretty much the same transmission route we

0:31:07.440 --> 0:31:10.560
<v Speaker 3>already talked about for a maybic dysentery. You get shigella

0:31:10.600 --> 0:31:13.560
<v Speaker 3>in your mouth, it survives your stomach, It travels through

0:31:13.640 --> 0:31:18.040
<v Speaker 3>your intestine, replicating the whole way that it goes until

0:31:18.040 --> 0:31:20.760
<v Speaker 3>it gets to your colon or large intestine, and that

0:31:20.880 --> 0:31:26.440
<v Speaker 3>is where shigella likes to make its home. Once it's there, unsurprisingly,

0:31:26.800 --> 0:31:31.080
<v Speaker 3>it invades your epithelium, the lining of your gut, and

0:31:31.240 --> 0:31:34.440
<v Speaker 3>in so doing, what it does is stimulate a massive

0:31:34.560 --> 0:31:39.160
<v Speaker 3>inflammatory response from your body, and that inflammatory response just

0:31:39.320 --> 0:31:42.440
<v Speaker 3>destroys the cells that line your gut wall, so that

0:31:42.520 --> 0:31:45.960
<v Speaker 3>the bacterium can invade even further. So at this point

0:31:46.000 --> 0:31:49.440
<v Speaker 3>you have hundreds, if not thousands, of bacteria burrowing into

0:31:49.440 --> 0:31:55.560
<v Speaker 3>your gut wall, hence massive bloody, bloody, painful diarrhea.

0:31:56.280 --> 0:31:59.760
<v Speaker 1>I have a question about the blood. Okay, why does

0:31:59.800 --> 0:32:04.360
<v Speaker 1>this cause bloody diarrhea? Why does it cause bleeding whereas

0:32:04.440 --> 0:32:05.960
<v Speaker 1>other diarrheas don't.

0:32:06.640 --> 0:32:07.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, great question.

0:32:07.640 --> 0:32:11.600
<v Speaker 3>It's specifically that invasion of the lining of your gut

0:32:11.640 --> 0:32:14.520
<v Speaker 3>wall because in doing that, it's like think of it

0:32:14.600 --> 0:32:20.480
<v Speaker 3>as your gut wall being like a wall, and this

0:32:20.600 --> 0:32:22.680
<v Speaker 3>bacteria is just like poking holes into it. So the

0:32:22.720 --> 0:32:24.920
<v Speaker 3>blood is just going to come leaking out because of that.

0:32:25.160 --> 0:32:25.520
<v Speaker 1>Okay.

0:32:26.160 --> 0:32:29.680
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, So other things that we've covered on this podcast

0:32:29.720 --> 0:32:34.560
<v Speaker 3>that cause diarrhea, like for example, cholera, right, vibriocholare it

0:32:34.680 --> 0:32:37.160
<v Speaker 3>just sort of hangs on to your epithelial cells like

0:32:37.200 --> 0:32:39.760
<v Speaker 3>it holds on to them, but it doesn't invade them,

0:32:39.800 --> 0:32:42.440
<v Speaker 3>it doesn't destroy them, it doesn't disrupt that lining. Whenever

0:32:42.480 --> 0:32:44.840
<v Speaker 3>you get that disruption, that's when you get the blood.

0:32:44.960 --> 0:32:45.280
<v Speaker 1>Okay.

0:32:45.920 --> 0:32:48.800
<v Speaker 3>And so that's why also viruses don't tend to cause

0:32:49.280 --> 0:32:52.120
<v Speaker 3>bloody diarrhea because they don't tend to invade through that

0:32:52.160 --> 0:32:52.640
<v Speaker 3>gut wall.

0:32:53.120 --> 0:32:57.320
<v Speaker 2>Hmm, okay, yeah.

0:32:57.360 --> 0:33:00.400
<v Speaker 3>Some species of Shigella, especially the ones that cause more

0:33:00.440 --> 0:33:05.080
<v Speaker 3>severe disease, also produce a variety of toxins, at least

0:33:05.120 --> 0:33:08.000
<v Speaker 3>one of which we've talked about on this podcast. Because

0:33:08.040 --> 0:33:11.360
<v Speaker 3>it's the exact same toxin that's produced by E. Coli

0:33:12.320 --> 0:33:18.560
<v Speaker 3>seven H seven yep shigatoxin, and this is a cytotoxic toxin,

0:33:18.840 --> 0:33:20.680
<v Speaker 3>so it kills.

0:33:20.520 --> 0:33:23.240
<v Speaker 2>Cells great, right, really great.

0:33:24.480 --> 0:33:28.480
<v Speaker 3>This particular toxin is especially dangerous, and what's interesting is

0:33:28.480 --> 0:33:31.880
<v Speaker 3>that it seems to do this more often with E.

0:33:32.040 --> 0:33:35.600
<v Speaker 3>Coli that produce shiga toxin than with Shigella that make

0:33:35.680 --> 0:33:39.080
<v Speaker 3>this shiga toxin, but it's still possible with Shigella. Is

0:33:39.120 --> 0:33:42.200
<v Speaker 3>that once this toxin gets into your blood stream, it

0:33:42.240 --> 0:33:45.520
<v Speaker 3>can kill your red blood cells and lead to anemia,

0:33:45.920 --> 0:33:49.600
<v Speaker 3>but then also destroy your platelets that since we know

0:33:49.640 --> 0:33:52.960
<v Speaker 3>how important platelets are for clotting, it leads to excessive bleeding,

0:33:54.200 --> 0:33:57.680
<v Speaker 3>and this also then leads to kidney failure because it

0:33:57.720 --> 0:34:01.520
<v Speaker 3>causes damage to the vasculature of your kidneys. This is

0:34:01.520 --> 0:34:05.760
<v Speaker 3>a syndrome called hemolytic uremic syndrome, and it's very bad

0:34:05.880 --> 0:34:06.719
<v Speaker 3>and can be fatal.

0:34:07.440 --> 0:34:11.400
<v Speaker 1>Does the production of this toxin in some way help

0:34:11.560 --> 0:34:15.480
<v Speaker 1>the bacteria to replicate more or to spread more easily,

0:34:15.600 --> 0:34:18.560
<v Speaker 1>Like is someone shedding more bacteria?

0:34:19.200 --> 0:34:20.120
<v Speaker 2>It's a great question.

0:34:20.440 --> 0:34:23.960
<v Speaker 3>It certainly tends to cause more severe disease, so in

0:34:24.040 --> 0:34:26.640
<v Speaker 3>that maybe people are having more massive diarrhea and then

0:34:26.680 --> 0:34:31.360
<v Speaker 3>are shedding more bacteria like we said before, But perhaps

0:34:31.360 --> 0:34:34.960
<v Speaker 3>it also the cytolytic effects perhaps help it invade more

0:34:35.000 --> 0:34:36.680
<v Speaker 3>deeply into the epithelium.

0:34:36.719 --> 0:34:38.040
<v Speaker 2>I'm not sure, Okay.

0:34:39.120 --> 0:34:44.160
<v Speaker 3>In general, the sort of clinical picture of shigella is

0:34:44.239 --> 0:34:47.640
<v Speaker 3>more abrupt, and I think maybe a bit more like

0:34:47.760 --> 0:34:49.560
<v Speaker 3>what we think of when you think of like a

0:34:49.600 --> 0:34:54.120
<v Speaker 3>food borne diarrhea type thing, in that it tends to

0:34:54.160 --> 0:34:58.080
<v Speaker 3>happen anywhere from one to four days, maybe rarely up

0:34:58.160 --> 0:35:01.960
<v Speaker 3>to a week after infection, and often one of the

0:35:02.000 --> 0:35:03.400
<v Speaker 3>first signs is a fever.

0:35:03.640 --> 0:35:04.640
<v Speaker 1>It started with a fever.

0:35:05.280 --> 0:35:06.040
<v Speaker 2>It started with a.

0:35:05.960 --> 0:35:10.600
<v Speaker 3>Fever, and then headache, feeling crappy, and then boom, this

0:35:10.719 --> 0:35:15.240
<v Speaker 3>diarrhea comes on and it's profuse. It's bloody, it's watery,

0:35:15.320 --> 0:35:20.440
<v Speaker 3>it's mucasy. For people with mild symptoms, they'll probably recover

0:35:20.520 --> 0:35:24.000
<v Speaker 3>within a few days. But people who progress to dysentery.

0:35:24.480 --> 0:35:26.719
<v Speaker 3>Here's where you can have some numbers of poops erin

0:35:27.239 --> 0:35:29.680
<v Speaker 3>Uh huh, they can pass more than twenty stools in

0:35:29.719 --> 0:35:30.400
<v Speaker 3>a day.

0:35:30.800 --> 0:35:36.560
<v Speaker 2>Wow. Yeah. Yeah.

0:35:36.600 --> 0:35:41.319
<v Speaker 3>And while extra intestinal manifestations, so this bacteria fully leaving

0:35:41.360 --> 0:35:45.480
<v Speaker 3>the intestine and causing illness elsewhere are rare and I

0:35:45.520 --> 0:35:47.560
<v Speaker 3>don't have a number on it erin, so I don't

0:35:47.560 --> 0:35:51.839
<v Speaker 3>know exactly how rare, but they are certainly possible, and

0:35:52.000 --> 0:35:54.960
<v Speaker 3>in a case of Shagela, they can cause things like seizures,

0:35:55.200 --> 0:35:58.040
<v Speaker 3>although this is mostly in kids and probably more related

0:35:58.040 --> 0:36:02.279
<v Speaker 3>to fever or other metabolic derangements from like electrolyte imbalance,

0:36:03.560 --> 0:36:07.680
<v Speaker 3>hemolytic uremic syndrome like I already mentioned, but in very

0:36:07.719 --> 0:36:12.560
<v Speaker 3>severe cases, things like intestinal perforation or separation of the

0:36:12.600 --> 0:36:15.239
<v Speaker 3>wall of your intestine, like the lining separates.

0:36:15.800 --> 0:36:16.640
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god.

0:36:17.280 --> 0:36:21.320
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's pretty severe.

0:36:21.520 --> 0:36:29.319
<v Speaker 1>So for both of these amobic and Shigella dysenteries, if

0:36:29.360 --> 0:36:32.680
<v Speaker 1>you survive either of those, what are some of the

0:36:32.800 --> 0:36:36.080
<v Speaker 1>lasting effects? Like I would imagine that like lesions with

0:36:36.200 --> 0:36:39.680
<v Speaker 1>amoebic dysentery are bad, and then like perforation would be

0:36:39.760 --> 0:36:42.120
<v Speaker 1>really bad, Like are there lingering effects?

0:36:42.440 --> 0:36:43.919
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, perforation is really bad.

0:36:43.960 --> 0:36:46.399
<v Speaker 3>Like if you don't have surgery, you're just gonna die.

0:36:46.560 --> 0:36:51.840
<v Speaker 3>Okay that Yeah, the lesions and ulcers themselves with treatment

0:36:52.160 --> 0:36:56.880
<v Speaker 3>will heal most likely because your gut it actually turns

0:36:56.920 --> 0:36:58.719
<v Speaker 3>over quite a lot, so it actually can really do

0:36:58.800 --> 0:36:59.479
<v Speaker 3>a good job healing.

0:37:00.160 --> 0:37:02.960
<v Speaker 2>Okay. But what's interesting, and I was going to.

0:37:02.960 --> 0:37:05.200
<v Speaker 3>Talk about this like later in the episode, but we

0:37:05.239 --> 0:37:07.920
<v Speaker 3>can talk about it now since you add microbiome.

0:37:08.680 --> 0:37:10.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, microbiome.

0:37:10.440 --> 0:37:14.520
<v Speaker 3>So there is increasing evidence that infection with I think

0:37:14.600 --> 0:37:16.960
<v Speaker 3>most of the studies have looked at schagella specifically, but

0:37:17.200 --> 0:37:21.879
<v Speaker 3>with diarrhea causing bacteria and especially dysentery causing bacteria and

0:37:21.920 --> 0:37:26.399
<v Speaker 3>potentially ambe as well, can then put you at higher

0:37:26.480 --> 0:37:32.399
<v Speaker 3>risk of having IBS. Oh, okay, veritable bowel syndrome. Yeah,

0:37:32.440 --> 0:37:34.799
<v Speaker 3>and there's some pretty good evidence. I'll link to a

0:37:34.840 --> 0:37:37.080
<v Speaker 3>paper that's kind of like a meta analysis of what

0:37:37.120 --> 0:37:40.480
<v Speaker 3>we know so far, or like a review paper. It's

0:37:40.520 --> 0:37:43.960
<v Speaker 3>really interesting because if you progress to dysentery that is

0:37:44.000 --> 0:37:47.239
<v Speaker 3>pretty severe, your gut is very unhappy. You're destroying a

0:37:47.280 --> 0:37:49.759
<v Speaker 3>lot of what was there, both in terms of the

0:37:49.920 --> 0:37:53.200
<v Speaker 3>architecture of your gut and also the symbios that you

0:37:53.280 --> 0:37:55.719
<v Speaker 3>had there. So it's not surprising that you could have

0:37:55.840 --> 0:38:02.040
<v Speaker 3>potentially lasting effects. But these are treatable infections, so that's great.

0:38:03.840 --> 0:38:07.400
<v Speaker 3>They're obviously different in terms of the antibiotics that you

0:38:07.440 --> 0:38:10.359
<v Speaker 3>would use to treat them. But the most important thing

0:38:10.480 --> 0:38:14.839
<v Speaker 3>for any kind of dysentery is oral rehydration therapy, and

0:38:14.920 --> 0:38:18.960
<v Speaker 3>so that's to combat the massive amount of dehydration. So

0:38:19.080 --> 0:38:20.960
<v Speaker 3>I that's that's dysentery.

0:38:21.040 --> 0:38:21.279
<v Speaker 2>Aaron.

0:38:23.560 --> 0:38:25.320
<v Speaker 1>Uh, it sounds horrible.

0:38:25.640 --> 0:38:31.080
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, it doesn't sound great. So how Aaron, Like,

0:38:31.880 --> 0:38:35.400
<v Speaker 3>I assume we've always gotten bloody diarrhea, but is like,

0:38:36.200 --> 0:38:37.520
<v Speaker 3>when did we find out about it?

0:38:38.040 --> 0:38:42.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah? Yeah, it's a it's a tough question, and I

0:38:42.480 --> 0:38:46.000
<v Speaker 1>will try to answer it right after this short break.

0:39:12.640 --> 0:39:16.520
<v Speaker 1>The story of dysentery is it's an interesting one because

0:39:16.520 --> 0:39:19.719
<v Speaker 1>it's not the story of one pathogen or one outbreak,

0:39:20.000 --> 0:39:25.320
<v Speaker 1>or one epidemic or one discovery, right The main character

0:39:25.480 --> 0:39:29.920
<v Speaker 1>changes constantly throughout the history of dysentery, and it can

0:39:29.960 --> 0:39:32.640
<v Speaker 1>be difficult, I have to admit, to find one common

0:39:32.760 --> 0:39:36.680
<v Speaker 1>thread sort of driving this story, especially I think because

0:39:36.680 --> 0:39:39.880
<v Speaker 1>if you zoom in on like one time or place

0:39:39.960 --> 0:39:44.960
<v Speaker 1>on one little snippet, one photo of that history, that

0:39:45.120 --> 0:39:47.960
<v Speaker 1>common thread that you're looking at, what you've zoomed in

0:39:48.000 --> 0:39:50.880
<v Speaker 1>on that branches off into a million other paths or

0:39:50.920 --> 0:39:53.279
<v Speaker 1>stories that you could follow down, like, oh, I want

0:39:53.320 --> 0:39:56.680
<v Speaker 1>to learn more about how the shigatoxin was discovered and

0:39:56.719 --> 0:40:00.560
<v Speaker 1>the implications for that in terms of like sell tissue

0:40:00.560 --> 0:40:04.200
<v Speaker 1>culture and the shigatoxin or shigella. You know, it's just

0:40:04.239 --> 0:40:10.640
<v Speaker 1>like it's yeah, yeah, it's complicated, and you probably already

0:40:10.640 --> 0:40:12.879
<v Speaker 1>gathered that from the fact that there are these many

0:40:12.960 --> 0:40:18.359
<v Speaker 1>different species of microbes that can cause dysentery, right, And

0:40:18.400 --> 0:40:20.760
<v Speaker 1>so what I want to do with this history section

0:40:21.160 --> 0:40:25.280
<v Speaker 1>is to present a very broad picture of the history

0:40:25.320 --> 0:40:29.160
<v Speaker 1>of dysentery, the flux, the runs, the trots, whatever name

0:40:29.600 --> 0:40:33.120
<v Speaker 1>you want to use, and it has gathered its fair

0:40:33.200 --> 0:40:34.360
<v Speaker 1>share over the years.

0:40:34.719 --> 0:40:37.520
<v Speaker 3>Oh yeah, I bet where did.

0:40:37.400 --> 0:40:39.640
<v Speaker 1>This come from? And how did we get to where

0:40:39.719 --> 0:40:44.319
<v Speaker 1>we are today? And the answer to that question is, well,

0:40:44.360 --> 0:40:46.279
<v Speaker 1>it's kind of the same as it has been for

0:40:46.520 --> 0:40:49.839
<v Speaker 1>many of the other diseases that we've covered on this podcast.

0:40:50.120 --> 0:40:53.719
<v Speaker 1>And if you're a repeat listener, you can probably make

0:40:53.760 --> 0:41:00.399
<v Speaker 1>a pretty solid guess no pun intended. Oh, consider that

0:41:00.440 --> 0:41:03.960
<v Speaker 1>these are pathogens or parasites transmitted through the fecal oral

0:41:04.080 --> 0:41:08.520
<v Speaker 1>rout it makes sense that once humans started gathering in

0:41:08.640 --> 0:41:11.800
<v Speaker 1>large groups and settling in one area for at least,

0:41:11.880 --> 0:41:14.719
<v Speaker 1>you know, a growing season, that it became much more

0:41:14.840 --> 0:41:18.600
<v Speaker 1>likely to come into contact with poop your own or

0:41:18.680 --> 0:41:23.000
<v Speaker 1>someone in your community's poop, or like livestock poop. This

0:41:23.080 --> 0:41:26.560
<v Speaker 1>is not new ground that I'm covering here, but in

0:41:26.640 --> 0:41:30.000
<v Speaker 1>researching for this episode, I realized that I hadn't ever

0:41:30.040 --> 0:41:34.600
<v Speaker 1>really stopped to consider, like what that transition from nomadic

0:41:34.680 --> 0:41:39.160
<v Speaker 1>to sedentary lifestyle, what that looked like, and how sanitation

0:41:39.440 --> 0:41:43.160
<v Speaker 1>or sanitation technology began to catch up, like it needed

0:41:43.200 --> 0:41:47.120
<v Speaker 1>a period of time to catch up after humans started

0:41:47.120 --> 0:41:53.040
<v Speaker 1>to settle in one place. Sanitation, especially latrines, you know,

0:41:53.239 --> 0:41:57.320
<v Speaker 1>that serves such a hugely important purpose in our lives.

0:41:57.880 --> 0:42:01.560
<v Speaker 1>It separates us from our urine and fecal waste, and

0:42:01.600 --> 0:42:05.040
<v Speaker 1>it provides a place where that waste can decompose. And

0:42:05.200 --> 0:42:09.200
<v Speaker 1>that's a process that also importantly helps to reduce the

0:42:09.200 --> 0:42:14.400
<v Speaker 1>prevalence of pathogens. It's when sanitation breaks down or is

0:42:14.440 --> 0:42:18.320
<v Speaker 1>suboptimal that we tend to see these outbreaks of intestinal

0:42:18.640 --> 0:42:22.839
<v Speaker 1>pathogens and parasites, including those that can cause amobic and

0:42:23.040 --> 0:42:28.480
<v Speaker 1>basilary dysentery. I think some of us maybe carry around

0:42:28.480 --> 0:42:32.360
<v Speaker 1>this image of early human settlements as being just like

0:42:32.640 --> 0:42:37.920
<v Speaker 1>absolutely filthy, with people and animals pooping everywhere and no

0:42:38.080 --> 0:42:42.120
<v Speaker 1>clean water to be found, But in reality, nothing could

0:42:42.160 --> 0:42:46.520
<v Speaker 1>be further from the truth. Latrines and sewers and drains

0:42:46.560 --> 0:42:50.160
<v Speaker 1>and bathrooms and wells and aqueducts and cisterns and piping,

0:42:50.719 --> 0:42:54.560
<v Speaker 1>these things have all existed for thousands and sometimes tens

0:42:54.560 --> 0:42:58.680
<v Speaker 1>of thousands of years. The modern flushing toilet is dated

0:42:58.800 --> 0:43:02.960
<v Speaker 1>to fifteen ninety SIVE, but older versions of a flush

0:43:03.000 --> 0:43:06.680
<v Speaker 1>toilet have existed since at least the Neolithic, maybe to

0:43:06.920 --> 0:43:11.920
<v Speaker 1>around three thousand BCE in the Indus Valley. Yeah, flushing toilet,

0:43:12.120 --> 0:43:19.120
<v Speaker 1>uh huh, Like yeah, it's and elsewhere, like in ancient

0:43:19.160 --> 0:43:23.880
<v Speaker 1>Mesopotamia or ancient Greece, there were pit toilets with variations

0:43:23.920 --> 0:43:26.200
<v Speaker 1>in the size of the pit or the slope of

0:43:26.239 --> 0:43:28.680
<v Speaker 1>the drain or the shape of the seat and so on,

0:43:29.680 --> 0:43:34.759
<v Speaker 1>like they're the longest known horizontal drain from ancient Mesopotamia

0:43:35.000 --> 0:43:40.120
<v Speaker 1>was two hundred meters long, Oh my goodness, and that

0:43:40.280 --> 0:43:43.520
<v Speaker 1>was that was that the Moon God complex from around

0:43:43.600 --> 0:43:48.360
<v Speaker 1>the first millennium BCE. So it's impressive, right.

0:43:48.440 --> 0:43:53.040
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that is impressive. Humans are more ingenious than I realized.

0:43:53.320 --> 0:43:56.520
<v Speaker 1>I think it's sort of like necessity is the mother

0:43:56.560 --> 0:43:59.759
<v Speaker 1>of invention. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean, you know, with

0:43:59.800 --> 0:44:02.719
<v Speaker 1>things about ancient Rome, I think, you know, when I

0:44:02.760 --> 0:44:05.640
<v Speaker 1>picture ancient Rome, maybe because the lead episode we did

0:44:05.880 --> 0:44:09.680
<v Speaker 1>what seems like forever ago, but all the pipes and

0:44:09.719 --> 0:44:11.640
<v Speaker 1>the baths and the drainage systems.

0:44:11.960 --> 0:44:12.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:44:12.480 --> 0:44:15.080
<v Speaker 1>I read a fun little tidbit that there were apparently

0:44:15.120 --> 0:44:19.280
<v Speaker 1>communal toilets in ancient Rome were very common, very popular,

0:44:19.760 --> 0:44:22.160
<v Speaker 1>and they used to be used as like social gathering

0:44:22.160 --> 0:44:24.560
<v Speaker 1>spots where you could catch up on gossip and plan

0:44:24.640 --> 0:44:25.600
<v Speaker 1>your next get together.

0:44:26.000 --> 0:44:28.480
<v Speaker 3>I mean that makes sense, Like bathrooms still are they

0:44:28.520 --> 0:44:30.319
<v Speaker 3>are if you all go the bathroom together and you

0:44:30.360 --> 0:44:31.760
<v Speaker 3>chit chat and have some time.

0:44:31.920 --> 0:44:36.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and no, I'm not going to spend the entire

0:44:36.440 --> 0:44:39.400
<v Speaker 1>history section talking about the evolution of the toilet or

0:44:39.480 --> 0:44:42.640
<v Speaker 1>sewage systems, although it would be kind of fun. Yeah,

0:44:42.719 --> 0:44:45.600
<v Speaker 1>it could be a great episode. Yeah, But I did

0:44:45.640 --> 0:44:48.520
<v Speaker 1>just want to emphasize that as soon as humans began

0:44:48.600 --> 0:44:52.760
<v Speaker 1>settling in large permanent groups, they began to devise ways

0:44:52.800 --> 0:44:57.760
<v Speaker 1>to manage waste over time and across you know, different

0:44:57.920 --> 0:45:03.520
<v Speaker 1>geographic areas that visceral disgust that humans have for fecal waste.

0:45:03.560 --> 0:45:08.840
<v Speaker 1>It found its way into culture in ancient Mesopotamia. For example,

0:45:09.040 --> 0:45:12.680
<v Speaker 1>around the first millennium BCE, there was a demon who

0:45:12.760 --> 0:45:18.560
<v Speaker 1>dwelled in latrines or bathrooms who was responsible for illness, injury,

0:45:18.680 --> 0:45:22.480
<v Speaker 1>or bad luck. And there were also demons in ancient

0:45:22.520 --> 0:45:27.839
<v Speaker 1>Mesopotamia associated with rubbish heaps. And then, of course, I'm

0:45:27.840 --> 0:45:31.600
<v Speaker 1>sure you're familiar with the saying cleanliness is next to godliness.

0:45:32.880 --> 0:45:36.480
<v Speaker 1>These cultural perceptions of waste. They led to the development

0:45:36.520 --> 0:45:40.040
<v Speaker 1>of rules and regulations regarding where you could or could

0:45:40.040 --> 0:45:44.200
<v Speaker 1>not dump your chamber pot, or your dead cow or goat.

0:45:44.880 --> 0:45:48.880
<v Speaker 1>They influenced the frequency of bathing or hand washing, and

0:45:49.000 --> 0:45:53.640
<v Speaker 1>the way that food was prepared. When miasma became this

0:45:53.719 --> 0:45:56.840
<v Speaker 1>like leading theory as to the origins of disease, it

0:45:57.160 --> 0:46:01.120
<v Speaker 1>wasn't far off from the truth. For several pathogens or parasites.

0:46:02.040 --> 0:46:04.799
<v Speaker 1>The steps that you would take to avoid miasma, this

0:46:05.000 --> 0:46:09.160
<v Speaker 1>bad contaminated air, those steps would in many cases be

0:46:09.239 --> 0:46:11.800
<v Speaker 1>the same ones that you would take to avoid several

0:46:11.840 --> 0:46:18.000
<v Speaker 1>intestinal diseases. For instance, in the fourteenth century CE, a

0:46:18.040 --> 0:46:21.480
<v Speaker 1>Spanish physician wrote a book on army health, where in

0:46:21.520 --> 0:46:23.919
<v Speaker 1>it he said that you should dig pits to use

0:46:23.960 --> 0:46:27.160
<v Speaker 1>as latrines at the edge of army camp and to

0:46:27.280 --> 0:46:31.040
<v Speaker 1>bury the dead bodies there, and also that you should

0:46:31.120 --> 0:46:34.600
<v Speaker 1>dip a white cloth in a possible water source before

0:46:34.680 --> 0:46:38.080
<v Speaker 1>you drink it to ensure that it remained unstained.

0:46:38.680 --> 0:46:41.240
<v Speaker 2>M Yeah, I mean it's good advice.

0:46:41.400 --> 0:46:43.880
<v Speaker 1>I mean it's good advice, and I think it's interesting

0:46:43.880 --> 0:46:48.080
<v Speaker 1>to sort of see these practices that were developed before

0:46:48.239 --> 0:46:52.040
<v Speaker 1>any knowledge of germ theory. Yeah. But of course this

0:46:52.160 --> 0:46:56.239
<v Speaker 1>isn't to say that sanitation technology or these cultural practices

0:46:56.400 --> 0:46:59.320
<v Speaker 1>or community rules or dipping a white cloth into water,

0:46:59.800 --> 0:47:04.239
<v Speaker 1>these were always successful in preventing the spread of pathogens

0:47:04.320 --> 0:47:09.440
<v Speaker 1>or parasites, especially those transmitted through fecal waste, because if

0:47:09.480 --> 0:47:13.239
<v Speaker 1>they were one hundred percent successful, the world would look

0:47:13.360 --> 0:47:17.040
<v Speaker 1>like a very different place, and this podcast might not exist,

0:47:18.480 --> 0:47:20.880
<v Speaker 1>which is a great name I wrote down here, great

0:47:20.960 --> 0:47:27.960
<v Speaker 1>name for Urban Legends or Conspiracy Theories podcast. But things

0:47:28.040 --> 0:47:33.120
<v Speaker 1>like flooding rivers or stagnant streams, droughts, population growth leading

0:47:33.160 --> 0:47:37.560
<v Speaker 1>to massive refuse piles, the proximity of cesspits to places

0:47:37.640 --> 0:47:41.120
<v Speaker 1>where food was being prepared, the use of human feces

0:47:41.160 --> 0:47:45.040
<v Speaker 1>as fertilizer, and the lack of knowledge of how diseases

0:47:45.040 --> 0:47:48.560
<v Speaker 1>were truly transmitted. You know, all of these things led

0:47:48.600 --> 0:47:52.600
<v Speaker 1>to the continued presence of many, many different pathogens and

0:47:52.719 --> 0:47:57.680
<v Speaker 1>parasites that are transmitted fecal orally, and dysentery in its

0:47:57.880 --> 0:48:02.759
<v Speaker 1>various forms was certainly one of those diseases, and not

0:48:02.880 --> 0:48:08.560
<v Speaker 1>just occasionally transmitted, but frequently, like enough so that Hippocrates

0:48:08.680 --> 0:48:11.839
<v Speaker 1>wrote about it, of course, gotta say Hippocrates, of.

0:48:11.800 --> 0:48:13.480
<v Speaker 2>Course in our contract.

0:48:16.040 --> 0:48:19.640
<v Speaker 1>It gets its name from ancient Greece. The word dysentery

0:48:19.760 --> 0:48:24.680
<v Speaker 1>comes from the Greek ducenteria douce meaning bad and enta

0:48:24.840 --> 0:48:29.480
<v Speaker 1>meaning bowels. And later, of course, it was known to

0:48:29.560 --> 0:48:32.240
<v Speaker 1>many people as the flux or the bloody flux.

0:48:33.560 --> 0:48:35.640
<v Speaker 2>Where does that come from? Exactly? Just because like your

0:48:35.680 --> 0:48:36.239
<v Speaker 2>guts are.

0:48:36.120 --> 0:48:38.879
<v Speaker 1>In flux, Like the flux just means flow.

0:48:39.400 --> 0:48:43.600
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, okay, so it's just like bloody flow, yeah, sense okay.

0:48:44.600 --> 0:48:48.000
<v Speaker 1>So we know that from writings, dysentery was present in

0:48:48.080 --> 0:48:52.640
<v Speaker 1>many ancient Old World civilizations, But do we have physical

0:48:52.719 --> 0:48:55.520
<v Speaker 1>proof or do we have any guests as to when

0:48:55.560 --> 0:49:01.200
<v Speaker 1>it arose in humans or first started infecting humans kind of.

0:49:01.320 --> 0:49:03.520
<v Speaker 1>I mean, yes, more to the first question than to

0:49:03.560 --> 0:49:06.960
<v Speaker 1>the second. And so here I have to switch from

0:49:07.000 --> 0:49:10.400
<v Speaker 1>talking about dysentery as a singular subject to one that

0:49:10.560 --> 0:49:14.640
<v Speaker 1>is caused by different microbes. Okay, And like you, Aaron,

0:49:15.200 --> 0:49:19.239
<v Speaker 1>I'm focusing on the two big ones, right, Antimyba histolytica,

0:49:19.520 --> 0:49:22.719
<v Speaker 1>and I'm grouping them all into just shigella. I don't

0:49:22.760 --> 0:49:24.759
<v Speaker 1>talk about the different species.

0:49:24.320 --> 0:49:28.160
<v Speaker 3>Or yeah, that's fine. I didn't either, because that's.

0:49:28.080 --> 0:49:29.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well that's like one of the that's one of

0:49:29.960 --> 0:49:33.880
<v Speaker 1>the multi branching pathways. I was talking about how different

0:49:33.920 --> 0:49:36.440
<v Speaker 1>species have seemed to take over over time and they

0:49:37.040 --> 0:49:42.040
<v Speaker 1>cycle in terms of their endemnicity and yeah, yeah, it's complicated.

0:49:41.600 --> 0:49:43.800
<v Speaker 3>And they're like virulence and everything.

0:49:43.880 --> 0:49:45.480
<v Speaker 2>It's oof, it's a mess.

0:49:45.640 --> 0:49:48.400
<v Speaker 1>It's yeah. Oh, I did want to ask about the virulence.

0:49:49.440 --> 0:49:50.080
<v Speaker 2>It's different?

0:49:51.080 --> 0:49:54.400
<v Speaker 1>Is it from different different toxins? Is this weird to

0:49:54.400 --> 0:49:54.960
<v Speaker 1>do this now?

0:49:55.400 --> 0:49:58.440
<v Speaker 3>It might be weird, but yeah, I mean, yeah, toxins

0:49:58.480 --> 0:50:00.799
<v Speaker 3>play a big role in it. But from what I read,

0:50:00.800 --> 0:50:05.239
<v Speaker 3>at least, it's not like necessarily specific to toxin, Like

0:50:05.520 --> 0:50:07.880
<v Speaker 3>that's one part of it, but it's not the whole story.

0:50:08.120 --> 0:50:11.000
<v Speaker 2>Okay, gotcha, okay, all right, all right.

0:50:11.120 --> 0:50:16.920
<v Speaker 1>Anyways, coming back, so, generally speaking, if we want to

0:50:16.960 --> 0:50:21.160
<v Speaker 1>know the prevalence of things like intestinal pathogens and parasites

0:50:21.280 --> 0:50:25.960
<v Speaker 1>in ancient human populations, we can't really use skeletal remains

0:50:26.440 --> 0:50:31.880
<v Speaker 1>like the way we can for tuberculosis and syphilis for instance, right, Instead,

0:50:31.920 --> 0:50:38.040
<v Speaker 1>we have to turn to coprolites. We love coprolites lovely,

0:50:38.920 --> 0:50:42.920
<v Speaker 1>or soil samples taken from burial areas around where the

0:50:42.960 --> 0:50:46.479
<v Speaker 1>intestines would have decomposed, so like the pelvic area, which

0:50:46.480 --> 0:50:49.080
<v Speaker 1>is I hadn't thought of that before, very interesting, that's

0:50:49.160 --> 0:50:53.319
<v Speaker 1>very interesting. Or we can analyze soil samples from archaeological

0:50:53.360 --> 0:50:59.000
<v Speaker 1>remains of these latrines or cesspools. When it comes to dysentery, though,

0:50:59.480 --> 0:51:04.920
<v Speaker 1>we're still pretty limited because dysentery is diarrhea. Yeah, and

0:51:05.080 --> 0:51:09.080
<v Speaker 1>only well formed stools can be preserved as copper lights.

0:51:09.440 --> 0:51:11.759
<v Speaker 2>Yeah yeah. Yeah.

0:51:11.920 --> 0:51:17.880
<v Speaker 1>That being said, there is some paleoparasitological evidence of Antamoba

0:51:17.920 --> 0:51:24.840
<v Speaker 1>histolytica infection in humans. The systs of Ehistilytica don't preserve

0:51:24.960 --> 0:51:29.200
<v Speaker 1>particularly well, and only do so under very extreme conditions

0:51:29.800 --> 0:51:35.000
<v Speaker 1>like extreme cold, extreme dryness, whatever, and so a microscopic

0:51:35.080 --> 0:51:40.319
<v Speaker 1>examination of soil or preserved feces isn't often successful, and

0:51:40.640 --> 0:51:43.080
<v Speaker 1>even if you do end up seeing, you know, an

0:51:43.160 --> 0:51:46.440
<v Speaker 1>amiba or a cyst of an amoba under the scope,

0:51:46.719 --> 0:51:49.120
<v Speaker 1>like you said, it might not be like you can't

0:51:49.120 --> 0:51:54.719
<v Speaker 1>distinguish between Antamba histilytica and a nonpathogenic species, right, and

0:51:54.800 --> 0:52:00.320
<v Speaker 1>so instead biomolecular tools like immunological tools you know and

0:52:00.360 --> 0:52:04.759
<v Speaker 1>testing are used if possible, which is great because it

0:52:04.800 --> 0:52:11.080
<v Speaker 1>can distinguish among species. But still there have been according

0:52:11.080 --> 0:52:13.160
<v Speaker 1>to a book I read published in twenty fifteen, so

0:52:13.239 --> 0:52:18.000
<v Speaker 1>those numbers might have changed, only five published articles describing

0:52:18.040 --> 0:52:22.480
<v Speaker 1>the discovery of Antamoba histalytica and ancient samples using either

0:52:22.560 --> 0:52:27.640
<v Speaker 1>macroscopy or immunological essays. Okay, The most ancient of these

0:52:27.680 --> 0:52:32.799
<v Speaker 1>samples that tested positive for Ehstalytica antigens is from Switzerland

0:52:33.120 --> 0:52:34.880
<v Speaker 1>around thirty four hundred BCE.

0:52:36.000 --> 0:52:36.680
<v Speaker 2>Wow.

0:52:37.040 --> 0:52:40.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. And there were a few samples that tested positive

0:52:40.280 --> 0:52:46.160
<v Speaker 1>from Greece between five thousand and two thousand BCE, and

0:52:46.160 --> 0:52:49.040
<v Speaker 1>there have been additional samples from various European sites in

0:52:49.080 --> 0:52:51.920
<v Speaker 1>the Middle Ages that have also tested positive.

0:52:52.680 --> 0:52:53.480
<v Speaker 2>Interesting.

0:52:53.960 --> 0:52:58.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, the first reliable evidence for Antamoba histalytica in the

0:52:58.920 --> 0:53:03.680
<v Speaker 1>New World is from the twelfth century CE. I couldn't

0:53:03.680 --> 0:53:08.640
<v Speaker 1>find any estimates for the emergence of Antamoba histolytica or

0:53:08.680 --> 0:53:13.000
<v Speaker 1>how long it's been associated with humans, but people do

0:53:13.120 --> 0:53:18.080
<v Speaker 1>seem to think, and I think the paleoparasitological evidence points

0:53:18.160 --> 0:53:20.520
<v Speaker 1>to this as well, is that it probably has an

0:53:20.560 --> 0:53:25.440
<v Speaker 1>Old World origin and that it seems to be possible

0:53:25.480 --> 0:53:29.840
<v Speaker 1>that it evolved with humans since there are antamba species

0:53:29.880 --> 0:53:34.359
<v Speaker 1>that can infect great apes, and that also the possibility

0:53:34.400 --> 0:53:38.600
<v Speaker 1>of being an asymptomatic carrier or being chronically infected asymptomatically,

0:53:38.760 --> 0:53:41.840
<v Speaker 1>that would allow it to persist in a community even

0:53:41.840 --> 0:53:44.760
<v Speaker 1>of smaller sizes, so you wouldn't necessarily need the crowd

0:53:45.520 --> 0:53:46.839
<v Speaker 1>like crowd disease type thing.

0:53:47.239 --> 0:53:50.800
<v Speaker 3>It's interesting if it's something that has been with us forever,

0:53:51.120 --> 0:53:55.560
<v Speaker 3>has it always caused disease at a low level, or

0:53:56.280 --> 0:53:59.319
<v Speaker 3>is that you know that, like at what point was

0:53:59.360 --> 0:54:02.200
<v Speaker 3>it able? But if if there's similar ones that do

0:54:02.440 --> 0:54:04.799
<v Speaker 3>cause disease and great apes, then maybe it is just

0:54:04.920 --> 0:54:09.680
<v Speaker 3>like sort of has always caused disease, but just a

0:54:09.719 --> 0:54:10.120
<v Speaker 3>little bit.

0:54:10.200 --> 0:54:12.120
<v Speaker 2>Ah, that's interesting, arin Yeah.

0:54:12.040 --> 0:54:14.200
<v Speaker 1>It's it's I wish that there was, and maybe I

0:54:14.360 --> 0:54:17.160
<v Speaker 1>just like missed you had the wrong search terms or something,

0:54:17.280 --> 0:54:20.000
<v Speaker 1>but I would love to read more about sort of

0:54:20.080 --> 0:54:24.000
<v Speaker 1>the you know, early evolutionary history of Antamoba histiltica.

0:54:24.360 --> 0:54:24.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:54:24.840 --> 0:54:29.040
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. And then, of course the other main cause of dysentery,

0:54:29.320 --> 0:54:33.799
<v Speaker 1>these various Shigella species. Again I couldn't find an exact date,

0:54:34.239 --> 0:54:37.120
<v Speaker 1>but their relationship with humans is also thought to be

0:54:37.200 --> 0:54:41.239
<v Speaker 1>pretty darn old. So the various species of Shigella that

0:54:41.360 --> 0:54:47.440
<v Speaker 1>cause dysentery all evolved from Ecoli or are still ecoal i,

0:54:47.520 --> 0:54:48.839
<v Speaker 1>depending on who you ask.

0:54:49.719 --> 0:54:51.880
<v Speaker 2>I remember we talked about that in our equal A episode.

0:54:52.040 --> 0:54:55.480
<v Speaker 1>Uh huh uh huh, yep, yep. And so I actually

0:54:55.520 --> 0:54:57.799
<v Speaker 1>went back to my notes for that episode and I

0:54:57.880 --> 0:55:00.479
<v Speaker 1>was like, oh, okay, Ecoli has been with hu since

0:55:00.560 --> 0:55:04.480
<v Speaker 1>humans were humans, Okay, And so I wrote here, Well,

0:55:04.520 --> 0:55:07.680
<v Speaker 1>it stands to reason then that Shigella might also be

0:55:07.760 --> 0:55:08.480
<v Speaker 1>fairly old.

0:55:08.760 --> 0:55:11.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, pretty much. Yeah.

0:55:11.680 --> 0:55:16.440
<v Speaker 1>But regardless of precisely when Antimoba histolytica or the dysentery

0:55:16.520 --> 0:55:21.080
<v Speaker 1>causing Shagella species when they first started infecting humans, we

0:55:21.160 --> 0:55:24.880
<v Speaker 1>can be absolutely sure that once humans began to form

0:55:24.960 --> 0:55:29.600
<v Speaker 1>these large settlements, they weren't just building permanent homes for themselves,

0:55:30.040 --> 0:55:35.840
<v Speaker 1>but also for the causative agents of dysentery. And under

0:55:35.880 --> 0:55:42.480
<v Speaker 1>these conditions, dysentery absolutely flourished. It became a very familiar

0:55:42.520 --> 0:55:46.440
<v Speaker 1>disease and also one that was very much dreaded. And

0:55:46.560 --> 0:55:49.640
<v Speaker 1>part of that was something that you talked about who

0:55:49.760 --> 0:55:54.640
<v Speaker 1>was most likely to be killed by the disease? Children? Yeah,

0:55:54.680 --> 0:56:01.320
<v Speaker 1>and also armies. Not only did military campaigns and war

0:56:01.520 --> 0:56:06.560
<v Speaker 1>create absolutely wonderful conditions for fecal oral pathogens or parasites

0:56:06.600 --> 0:56:10.719
<v Speaker 1>to blossom. I mean remember the typhoid episode. Oh yeah,

0:56:10.760 --> 0:56:14.759
<v Speaker 1>these military campaigns also played a direct role in increasing

0:56:14.800 --> 0:56:19.480
<v Speaker 1>the geographic distribution of those microbes, including the ones that

0:56:19.560 --> 0:56:22.040
<v Speaker 1>caused dysentery. Right, So you're like, oh, we're going to

0:56:22.120 --> 0:56:25.359
<v Speaker 1>go on the Crusades and we're going to spread dysentery

0:56:25.440 --> 0:56:27.080
<v Speaker 1>throughout everywhere we go.

0:56:28.080 --> 0:56:30.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, just pooping it along with you, pooping it.

0:56:30.440 --> 0:56:34.239
<v Speaker 1>Along with you. Dysentery ran through the Persian armies that

0:56:34.320 --> 0:56:39.719
<v Speaker 1>invaded Greece in four ADBCE. In France in seventeen seventy nine,

0:56:39.920 --> 0:56:44.759
<v Speaker 1>there was an epidemic of dysentery, likely bassilary, that was

0:56:44.800 --> 0:56:48.000
<v Speaker 1>exacerbated by troop movements and led to the death of

0:56:48.040 --> 0:56:52.160
<v Speaker 1>one hundred and seventy five thousand people, most of them children.

0:56:52.880 --> 0:56:57.719
<v Speaker 1>Augh And in the US Civil War, the annual morbidity

0:56:57.840 --> 0:57:01.120
<v Speaker 1>rate for dysentery for Union soldiers was eight hundred and

0:57:01.200 --> 0:57:05.200
<v Speaker 1>seventy six per one thousand, so basically everyone got it

0:57:05.880 --> 0:57:10.120
<v Speaker 1>and annual mortality rates were estimated at ten per one thousand.

0:57:10.560 --> 0:57:10.920
<v Speaker 2>Wow.

0:57:11.840 --> 0:57:15.840
<v Speaker 1>And these numbers were even higher in prisoner of war camps,

0:57:15.880 --> 0:57:19.560
<v Speaker 1>such as the one where Union soldiers were held at Andersonville, Georgia,

0:57:20.280 --> 0:57:24.120
<v Speaker 1>where sixteen thousand, seven hundred and seventy two cases of

0:57:24.200 --> 0:57:27.800
<v Speaker 1>diarrhea and dysenteria were recorded and four thousand, five hundred

0:57:27.840 --> 0:57:33.080
<v Speaker 1>and twenty nine soldiers died. Oh my gracious Benjamin Moseley,

0:57:33.560 --> 0:57:37.200
<v Speaker 1>who was the former English surgeon General in Jamaica, he

0:57:37.240 --> 0:57:40.440
<v Speaker 1>wrote in the early eighteen hundreds quote because you know

0:57:40.480 --> 0:57:46.080
<v Speaker 1>I love quotes. Quote the dysentery or flux, being a

0:57:46.120 --> 0:57:50.000
<v Speaker 1>disease so destructive to soldiers in camps and garrisons, and

0:57:50.040 --> 0:57:53.680
<v Speaker 1>a constant attendant on all military operations, it is a

0:57:53.720 --> 0:57:57.440
<v Speaker 1>medical inquiry of the utmost importance to investigate this disease

0:57:57.560 --> 0:58:01.160
<v Speaker 1>with the utmost attention in hopes of finding some method

0:58:01.200 --> 0:58:04.000
<v Speaker 1>to put a stop to its devastation. It is a

0:58:04.040 --> 0:58:07.600
<v Speaker 1>subject in which the welfare of mankind is deeply interested,

0:58:07.960 --> 0:58:11.080
<v Speaker 1>and often the glory and honor of a nation. If

0:58:11.080 --> 0:58:14.160
<v Speaker 1>the cause of humanity were not alone a sufficient motive

0:58:14.200 --> 0:58:16.720
<v Speaker 1>to induce to this research, we need but turn our

0:58:16.720 --> 0:58:19.720
<v Speaker 1>eyes on the political field, where we should behold the

0:58:19.760 --> 0:58:25.520
<v Speaker 1>best concerted measures, often defeated by its influence. So yeah,

0:58:25.560 --> 0:58:28.280
<v Speaker 1>of course it devastated soldiers, and it was like, we

0:58:28.360 --> 0:58:31.360
<v Speaker 1>need to get this taken care of and then off

0:58:31.440 --> 0:58:36.520
<v Speaker 1>the battlefield entirely. It was also devastating. There's an impressive

0:58:36.600 --> 0:58:41.680
<v Speaker 1>list of famous people killed by dysentery. The Byzantine Emperor

0:58:41.800 --> 0:58:45.840
<v Speaker 1>Constantine the Fourth in six' eighty five, CE Louis the

0:58:45.960 --> 0:58:49.440
<v Speaker 1>ninth of France in twelve seventy, King Henry the fifth

0:58:49.440 --> 0:58:53.600
<v Speaker 1>of England in fourteen twenty two, Erasmus in fifteen thirty six,

0:58:53.640 --> 0:58:56.720
<v Speaker 1>Sir Francis Drake in fifteen ninety six, Akbar, ruler of

0:58:56.760 --> 0:58:59.880
<v Speaker 1>the Mughal Empire in sixteen oh five, Nathaniel Bacon six

0:59:00.040 --> 0:59:02.520
<v Speaker 1>seen seventy six, and on and on and on, like

0:59:02.600 --> 0:59:04.880
<v Speaker 1>I skipped a ton of people because I was like

0:59:04.880 --> 0:59:07.800
<v Speaker 1>this is ridiculous, Like.

0:59:07.800 --> 0:59:09.720
<v Speaker 3>Who didn't die of dysentery?

0:59:09.920 --> 0:59:12.520
<v Speaker 1>Who didn't die of dysentery? I mean, and I'm sure

0:59:13.040 --> 0:59:16.320
<v Speaker 1>that everyone remembers dysentery from the Oregon Trail.

0:59:16.800 --> 0:59:19.840
<v Speaker 3>Yes, that's I remember it. You have died from dysentery.

0:59:19.920 --> 0:59:24.240
<v Speaker 1>You have died from dysentery, yep, yep. And you know,

0:59:24.520 --> 0:59:29.400
<v Speaker 1>dysentery was truly devastating. It was a plague, it was

0:59:29.400 --> 0:59:34.280
<v Speaker 1>a pestilence, a scourge. Like there's no there's no word

0:59:34.400 --> 0:59:38.400
<v Speaker 1>to hyperbolic, I guess to describe it. Yeah, yeah, And

0:59:38.440 --> 0:59:42.600
<v Speaker 1>so of course people were looking into it for hundreds

0:59:42.720 --> 0:59:46.440
<v Speaker 1>thousands of years. Even they were looking into it treatises

0:59:46.600 --> 0:59:51.040
<v Speaker 1>upon texts, upon papyri, and quite honestly, it didn't do

0:59:51.240 --> 0:59:55.280
<v Speaker 1>much good, at least until the late eighteen hundreds. For

0:59:55.400 --> 0:59:57.640
<v Speaker 1>much of the human history of dysentery, there was no

0:59:57.760 --> 1:00:01.040
<v Speaker 1>distinguishing between the amobic and basilary forms of the disease,

1:00:01.360 --> 1:00:05.040
<v Speaker 1>and in many ways there didn't need to be. They

1:00:05.080 --> 1:00:08.280
<v Speaker 1>were transmitted in the same way, the symptoms they caused

1:00:08.360 --> 1:00:12.400
<v Speaker 1>were quite similar, and most importantly, there was no cure

1:00:12.600 --> 1:00:19.160
<v Speaker 1>for either, right, but there were plenty of attempts. Yeah,

1:00:19.240 --> 1:00:25.000
<v Speaker 1>bleeding naturally, right, but I know it gets worse.

1:00:25.160 --> 1:00:28.440
<v Speaker 3>It's just so illogical in this case, like that's already

1:00:28.480 --> 1:00:29.919
<v Speaker 3>part of your problem here.

1:00:30.160 --> 1:00:32.880
<v Speaker 1>Oh, I know. It's like bleeding to reduce the inflammation

1:00:33.240 --> 1:00:36.160
<v Speaker 1>in the intestine is like how it was prescribed.

1:00:36.440 --> 1:00:38.720
<v Speaker 2>Oh my goodness, I know. Okay, give me.

1:00:38.680 --> 1:00:42.760
<v Speaker 1>More ip acac or rhubarb for some vomiting to empty

1:00:42.800 --> 1:00:47.720
<v Speaker 1>the stomach. Sure, yeah, hm, something like tartar to cleanse

1:00:47.760 --> 1:00:53.120
<v Speaker 1>the bowels. What yeah, so you're basically empty and I

1:00:54.280 --> 1:00:57.600
<v Speaker 1>these cures, as per usual, did more harm than good.

1:00:57.920 --> 1:01:02.160
<v Speaker 1>Uh huh it is. I think it's interesting, Like it is,

1:01:02.200 --> 1:01:04.600
<v Speaker 1>of course, really difficult to resist the temptation to be

1:01:04.680 --> 1:01:07.720
<v Speaker 1>like what were you thinking? I know, these clearly are

1:01:07.920 --> 1:01:11.640
<v Speaker 1>terrible things to do, but also I just find it

1:01:11.680 --> 1:01:15.400
<v Speaker 1>fascinating because a lot of the way that treatments were

1:01:15.440 --> 1:01:19.040
<v Speaker 1>designed were to keep the bodies like humors in balance,

1:01:19.920 --> 1:01:23.280
<v Speaker 1>and so it's just like, but if you want to

1:01:23.360 --> 1:01:27.000
<v Speaker 1>keep your electrolytes and your water imbalance, Like you're losing

1:01:27.080 --> 1:01:29.720
<v Speaker 1>so much water, don't you think you might want to

1:01:29.760 --> 1:01:30.320
<v Speaker 1>replace it?

1:01:30.640 --> 1:01:32.240
<v Speaker 2>But did they know that?

1:01:32.400 --> 1:01:32.560
<v Speaker 3>Now?

1:01:33.120 --> 1:01:35.479
<v Speaker 2>I know they didn't know about electrolytes sarin.

1:01:35.920 --> 1:01:39.960
<v Speaker 1>I know, I know, I know, I need to resist that.

1:01:39.960 --> 1:01:43.360
<v Speaker 1>That's hard for this one in particular. I'm like, I

1:01:43.640 --> 1:01:49.520
<v Speaker 1>just water and sugar and salt, okay, right, yeah. And

1:01:49.560 --> 1:01:52.440
<v Speaker 1>it was only in the late eighteen hundreds that dysentery

1:01:52.600 --> 1:01:57.880
<v Speaker 1>was recognized to be caused by different organisms. Antimba histolytica

1:01:58.000 --> 1:02:01.640
<v Speaker 1>was first described in eighteen seventy five by Russian scientist

1:02:01.760 --> 1:02:06.280
<v Speaker 1>Federal Lausch, who isolated the amiba from a patient and

1:02:06.320 --> 1:02:09.840
<v Speaker 1>then confirmed its ability to cause disease by feeding amoba

1:02:09.960 --> 1:02:17.240
<v Speaker 1>rich stools to a dog who developed similar lesions. Oh

1:02:17.320 --> 1:02:20.240
<v Speaker 1>and there were plenty of also, I should mention of

1:02:20.480 --> 1:02:25.920
<v Speaker 1>quote human volunteer experiments to confirm because it was heavily

1:02:25.960 --> 1:02:29.640
<v Speaker 1>debated for a while whether it was the amiba itself

1:02:29.680 --> 1:02:32.760
<v Speaker 1>causing disease or if the amiba was just something that

1:02:32.880 --> 1:02:36.800
<v Speaker 1>sustained it. And this actually makes this debate makes sense

1:02:36.800 --> 1:02:40.880
<v Speaker 1>in the context of the later discovery that there are

1:02:41.160 --> 1:02:46.280
<v Speaker 1>indistinguishable species of entomba, one of which is pathogenic and

1:02:46.320 --> 1:02:49.480
<v Speaker 1>the other is not. So that like there was a

1:02:49.480 --> 1:02:52.040
<v Speaker 1>long debate being like, no, it's not the amiba that's

1:02:52.120 --> 1:02:54.880
<v Speaker 1>causing disease, it's something else.

1:02:56.160 --> 1:02:56.800
<v Speaker 2>Huh.

1:02:57.200 --> 1:03:03.040
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I don't know. Interesting, yeah, And this debate continued

1:03:03.120 --> 1:03:07.960
<v Speaker 1>even after the Shigella basillis or I guess Shigella basilla

1:03:08.400 --> 1:03:13.800
<v Speaker 1>were discovered in eighteen ninety eight by Japanese physician Kiyoshi Shiga,

1:03:14.120 --> 1:03:17.320
<v Speaker 1>which was also the first time that it was demonstrated

1:03:17.320 --> 1:03:22.240
<v Speaker 1>that dysentery could have multiple posative agents, and Shiga had

1:03:22.360 --> 1:03:25.440
<v Speaker 1>culture of the Shigeala basillas from a patient with dysentery

1:03:25.560 --> 1:03:30.760
<v Speaker 1>during a huge epidemic in Japan, the eighteen ninety seven outbreak,

1:03:30.800 --> 1:03:35.240
<v Speaker 1>which had a mortality rate of twenty five percent and yeah,

1:03:35.320 --> 1:03:38.960
<v Speaker 1>and ended up killing over twenty two thousand people, again

1:03:39.600 --> 1:03:45.200
<v Speaker 1>the majority of them children. In fact, Shiga himself described

1:03:45.240 --> 1:03:50.200
<v Speaker 1>dysentery as quote the most dreaded disease of children, and

1:03:50.280 --> 1:03:54.720
<v Speaker 1>after Shiga published his findings, other researchers repeated his isolation

1:03:54.920 --> 1:03:58.040
<v Speaker 1>and culture techniques and were able to confirm that this

1:03:58.160 --> 1:04:03.480
<v Speaker 1>bacillus was responsible for dysentery, although later work, of course

1:04:03.520 --> 1:04:06.680
<v Speaker 1>revealed that it wasn't this Bacillis, but rather these bacilli.

1:04:07.400 --> 1:04:10.479
<v Speaker 1>As it turned out there were multiple species responsible for

1:04:10.560 --> 1:04:16.240
<v Speaker 1>causing dysentery. I'm always struck by the period of time

1:04:16.440 --> 1:04:20.320
<v Speaker 1>between the late eighteen hundreds and the early nineteen forties

1:04:20.440 --> 1:04:24.880
<v Speaker 1>or so, when our knowledge of pathogenic microbes and parasites

1:04:25.320 --> 1:04:30.200
<v Speaker 1>had greatly expanded, but we were still largely helpless against

1:04:30.320 --> 1:04:35.080
<v Speaker 1>treating them. Yeah, the bacterial ones anyway, Like vaccines of course,

1:04:35.160 --> 1:04:40.080
<v Speaker 1>were another story for many diseases. But yeah, like we

1:04:40.080 --> 1:04:46.360
<v Speaker 1>were largely helpless against a lot of bacterial diseases. And

1:04:46.400 --> 1:04:49.920
<v Speaker 1>so despite now having at least two causative agents in

1:04:50.040 --> 1:04:54.000
<v Speaker 1>hand for dysentery, the disease still raged in the military,

1:04:54.280 --> 1:04:59.360
<v Speaker 1>in prisons, in psychiatric institutions, killing so many people and

1:04:59.440 --> 1:05:04.960
<v Speaker 1>so many children. We've talked recently about the horrific conditions

1:05:05.000 --> 1:05:07.560
<v Speaker 1>of trench warfare and World War One in regards to

1:05:07.760 --> 1:05:12.360
<v Speaker 1>trench fever, and dysentery was also an enormous contributor to

1:05:12.560 --> 1:05:18.120
<v Speaker 1>morbidity and mortality during that war. The development of sulfonamides

1:05:18.160 --> 1:05:20.560
<v Speaker 1>in time for the Second World War, or at least

1:05:20.800 --> 1:05:23.560
<v Speaker 1>for the end of the Second World War, reduced the

1:05:23.600 --> 1:05:28.520
<v Speaker 1>military mortality of dysentery enormously for that conflict, down to

1:05:28.680 --> 1:05:30.040
<v Speaker 1>point oh seven percent.

1:05:30.440 --> 1:05:30.920
<v Speaker 2>Wow.

1:05:31.440 --> 1:05:36.680
<v Speaker 1>However, it was not the same situation in the concentration

1:05:36.800 --> 1:05:39.680
<v Speaker 1>camps and prisoner of war camps of course during World

1:05:39.720 --> 1:05:45.240
<v Speaker 1>War II, where dysentery raged unchecked and was absolutely horrific.

1:05:46.720 --> 1:05:50.320
<v Speaker 1>But I have a bit of side trivia here. Before

1:05:50.360 --> 1:05:54.720
<v Speaker 1>antibiotics were developed, dysentery caused by Shigella was one of

1:05:54.760 --> 1:06:00.000
<v Speaker 1>the first diseases successfully treated by bacteria phages in nineteen nineteen.

1:06:00.360 --> 1:06:02.480
<v Speaker 3>Oh my gosh, I saw that article, Aaron.

1:06:02.880 --> 1:06:05.520
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, that's so interesting.

1:06:05.760 --> 1:06:07.040
<v Speaker 2>It's fascinating.

1:06:07.360 --> 1:06:11.120
<v Speaker 3>I was like, what this is like the early nineteen hundreds.

1:06:11.520 --> 1:06:15.640
<v Speaker 1>I know, it's so cool. Shout out to Stephanie's Stratti,

1:06:15.800 --> 1:06:23.440
<v Speaker 1>please check out our antibiotic resistance episode because it's really fascinating. Yeah. So, anyway,

1:06:24.080 --> 1:06:27.080
<v Speaker 1>from the beginning of the twentieth century, the landscape of

1:06:27.120 --> 1:06:31.360
<v Speaker 1>dysentery had greatly changed across the globe and is still

1:06:31.440 --> 1:06:35.040
<v Speaker 1>changing today. An incredible amount of progress has been made

1:06:35.200 --> 1:06:40.440
<v Speaker 1>on both Antimiba histolytica and the dysentery causing Shigella species

1:06:40.520 --> 1:06:44.840
<v Speaker 1>in terms of rulence factors and plasmids and evolution and

1:06:44.920 --> 1:06:50.720
<v Speaker 1>genetic diversity and all those other things, and dysentery has

1:06:50.880 --> 1:06:56.000
<v Speaker 1>greatly dropped in prevalence in many places, especially with advancements

1:06:56.000 --> 1:07:02.440
<v Speaker 1>in sanitation infrastructure, and the application of antibiotics, but it

1:07:02.520 --> 1:07:07.480
<v Speaker 1>is still so extremely and frustratingly prevalent across the globe,

1:07:08.080 --> 1:07:11.840
<v Speaker 1>causing devastating outbreaks such as the one in Guatemala in

1:07:11.920 --> 1:07:15.720
<v Speaker 1>nineteen sixty nine, which led to an estimated ten thousand deaths,

1:07:16.680 --> 1:07:19.800
<v Speaker 1>and over the next four years, it's estimated that there

1:07:19.840 --> 1:07:23.400
<v Speaker 1>were five hundred thousand cases and twenty thousand deaths due

1:07:23.440 --> 1:07:28.200
<v Speaker 1>to dysentery in Central America, and in the late nineteen

1:07:28.240 --> 1:07:32.280
<v Speaker 1>seventies in Central Africa, an epidemic of dysentery began to

1:07:32.360 --> 1:07:37.160
<v Speaker 1>spread and then to remain at high numbers. High incidents.

1:07:37.640 --> 1:07:41.200
<v Speaker 1>In the early nineteen nineties, civil wars and mass genocide

1:07:41.360 --> 1:07:44.920
<v Speaker 1>and the construction of refugee camps led to the sustained

1:07:44.960 --> 1:07:48.840
<v Speaker 1>outbreak in Rwanda, with weekly dysentery attack rates in the

1:07:48.880 --> 1:07:52.200
<v Speaker 1>camps estimated to be three point eight per one hundred people.

1:07:55.520 --> 1:07:59.440
<v Speaker 1>And one of the most concerning things about the epidemics

1:07:59.480 --> 1:08:01.920
<v Speaker 1>and the outs that have happened starting in the second

1:08:01.920 --> 1:08:08.400
<v Speaker 1>half of the twentieth century is antibiotic resistance. Shigella were

1:08:08.440 --> 1:08:12.000
<v Speaker 1>one of the first bacteria to show multi drug resistance

1:08:12.240 --> 1:08:15.880
<v Speaker 1>starting in the nineteen fifties. The nineteen fifties.

1:08:17.040 --> 1:08:19.679
<v Speaker 3>How many multiples of drugs do we even have?

1:08:19.880 --> 1:08:25.200
<v Speaker 1>Then it's horrible And as far as I can tell,

1:08:25.280 --> 1:08:29.920
<v Speaker 1>this trend towards antibiotic resistance. Maybe you'll tell me something different,

1:08:29.960 --> 1:08:32.519
<v Speaker 1>but it hasn't seemed to turn around. It seems to

1:08:32.560 --> 1:08:35.519
<v Speaker 1>be remaining fairly steady and on the rise.

1:08:35.640 --> 1:08:38.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I'm not going to tell you anything different, Okay.

1:08:39.600 --> 1:08:44.920
<v Speaker 1>Dysenterry loves a disaster. It loves a disruption, whether it's

1:08:44.960 --> 1:08:48.920
<v Speaker 1>a civil war or a busted sewer, an overflowing river,

1:08:49.200 --> 1:08:53.840
<v Speaker 1>or a drought. It thrives on that disturbance. So much

1:08:53.840 --> 1:08:56.600
<v Speaker 1>of the world does not even currently have access to

1:08:56.640 --> 1:09:01.920
<v Speaker 1>clean water, leaving them extremely vulnerable too dysentery and other diseases.

1:09:02.640 --> 1:09:06.640
<v Speaker 1>And I can't help. But now when I watch the

1:09:06.680 --> 1:09:09.360
<v Speaker 1>news and I see all the horrific climate disasters that

1:09:09.400 --> 1:09:14.559
<v Speaker 1>are happening, I can't help but think, Oh, dysentery is

1:09:14.600 --> 1:09:20.439
<v Speaker 1>gonna love this. So, Aaron, I'm hoping you'll tell me

1:09:20.479 --> 1:09:22.680
<v Speaker 1>some good news about dysentery.

1:09:23.720 --> 1:09:26.800
<v Speaker 3>I let's just take a break.

1:09:28.920 --> 1:09:31.280
<v Speaker 2>And then we'll just talk about it.

1:10:06.960 --> 1:10:11.720
<v Speaker 3>So, like many of our episodes that get a little complicated,

1:10:11.760 --> 1:10:13.479
<v Speaker 3>like we're dealing with a lot of different things.

1:10:13.560 --> 1:10:14.200
<v Speaker 2>It's hard to put a.

1:10:14.240 --> 1:10:17.559
<v Speaker 3>Number on how many people have bloody diarrhea, et cetera.

1:10:18.080 --> 1:10:19.599
<v Speaker 3>So we're going to do the best that we can

1:10:19.640 --> 1:10:21.680
<v Speaker 3>with numbers, I think we'll get an overall picture of

1:10:21.760 --> 1:10:25.920
<v Speaker 3>how bad it still is. Okay, none of these estimates

1:10:25.960 --> 1:10:28.080
<v Speaker 3>are super recent. Most of them come from like the

1:10:28.240 --> 1:10:29.920
<v Speaker 3>early twenty tens or so.

1:10:31.040 --> 1:10:33.760
<v Speaker 2>But overall, looking.

1:10:33.720 --> 1:10:38.760
<v Speaker 3>Just first at shigella, it's estimated that there's between one

1:10:38.840 --> 1:10:42.000
<v Speaker 3>hundred and sixty five and one hundred and eighty eight

1:10:43.000 --> 1:10:49.760
<v Speaker 3>million cases of shigellosis, so that's shigella associated diarrhea or

1:10:49.840 --> 1:10:56.919
<v Speaker 3>dysentery globally every year. It's estimated that includes over sixty

1:10:56.960 --> 1:10:59.439
<v Speaker 3>million cases in kids underage five.

1:11:00.120 --> 1:11:02.200
<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh.

1:11:02.360 --> 1:11:06.879
<v Speaker 3>And this twenty eighteen paper that I read also estimated

1:11:06.880 --> 1:11:10.679
<v Speaker 3>that shigella infections are the second leading cause of death

1:11:10.800 --> 1:11:15.719
<v Speaker 3>due to diarrhea after rotavirus, and cause over one hundred

1:11:15.760 --> 1:11:20.719
<v Speaker 3>and sixty four thousand deaths annually. That includes over fifty

1:11:20.760 --> 1:11:24.360
<v Speaker 3>four thousand deaths in kids under age five. That's just

1:11:24.479 --> 1:11:25.280
<v Speaker 3>from shigella.

1:11:26.000 --> 1:11:27.160
<v Speaker 1>Oh my gosh.

1:11:27.400 --> 1:11:33.479
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's pretty horrific. Yeah, when we look at amobic

1:11:33.520 --> 1:11:37.559
<v Speaker 3>dysentery we have, I think even harder numbers. I don't

1:11:37.560 --> 1:11:41.800
<v Speaker 3>have numbers on the estimates of total infection worldwide, but

1:11:42.160 --> 1:11:44.960
<v Speaker 3>I did find that it's estimated that fifty five thousand

1:11:45.040 --> 1:11:51.120
<v Speaker 3>people a year die from Antimyba histolytica infection, and of

1:11:51.160 --> 1:11:53.800
<v Speaker 3>course many of those are children. It's one of the

1:11:53.800 --> 1:11:58.439
<v Speaker 3>top like fifteen causes of dysentery in developing countries for kids,

1:12:00.200 --> 1:12:04.000
<v Speaker 3>especially with amoebic dysentery. There have been some studies that

1:12:04.040 --> 1:12:08.040
<v Speaker 3>suggest that, like in endemic areas, up to forty percent

1:12:08.160 --> 1:12:11.120
<v Speaker 3>or more of the population shows evidence of prior infection.

1:12:11.320 --> 1:12:14.559
<v Speaker 3>So this is an amiba that's really widespread even when

1:12:14.600 --> 1:12:15.799
<v Speaker 3>it's not causing disease.

1:12:17.520 --> 1:12:20.800
<v Speaker 1>A quick question about that and about immunity, because I

1:12:20.840 --> 1:12:24.000
<v Speaker 1>guess this will player role. Then if in any discussion

1:12:24.000 --> 1:12:28.560
<v Speaker 1>of vaccines, Yeah, is there any immunity to either amobic

1:12:28.800 --> 1:12:30.440
<v Speaker 1>or shigellosis.

1:12:30.680 --> 1:12:31.559
<v Speaker 2>It's a good question.

1:12:32.560 --> 1:12:35.840
<v Speaker 3>So off the bat, we don't have vaccines for either.

1:12:38.240 --> 1:12:41.480
<v Speaker 3>There's good evidence that the potential to develop a vaccine

1:12:41.560 --> 1:12:45.720
<v Speaker 3>exists for shigella. There's work being done, there's a lot

1:12:45.720 --> 1:12:50.799
<v Speaker 3>of promise, there's been patents filed to develop vaccines for shigella,

1:12:50.960 --> 1:12:54.719
<v Speaker 3>especially to try and like develop vaccines against both shigella

1:12:54.800 --> 1:12:57.439
<v Speaker 3>and typhoid, like combining those both in one vaccine, because

1:12:57.479 --> 1:12:59.800
<v Speaker 3>that would be really beneficial those are spread in similar ways,

1:13:00.000 --> 1:13:03.760
<v Speaker 3>et cetera. But right now nothing exists like that. But

1:13:04.479 --> 1:13:08.439
<v Speaker 3>animal model studies suggest that the type of immune response

1:13:08.439 --> 1:13:10.760
<v Speaker 3>that we develop could be protective. The problem is that

1:13:10.760 --> 1:13:13.320
<v Speaker 3>there's a lot of different species and there's a lot

1:13:13.320 --> 1:13:16.200
<v Speaker 3>of different serotypes, so how much cross protection you would

1:13:16.240 --> 1:13:20.360
<v Speaker 3>get from an immune response is unclear. With ntemyba histolytica,

1:13:20.400 --> 1:13:24.240
<v Speaker 3>I could find even less information, so people mount an

1:13:24.240 --> 1:13:26.960
<v Speaker 3>immune response, but again, because it can be kind of

1:13:27.400 --> 1:13:31.640
<v Speaker 3>like an asymptomatic infection, it's not really clear like are

1:13:31.680 --> 1:13:36.160
<v Speaker 3>you protected from reinfection, are you chronically infected, et cetera.

1:13:36.360 --> 1:13:39.080
<v Speaker 3>So for that one, I think we're even further from

1:13:39.120 --> 1:13:41.760
<v Speaker 3>the potential for a vaccine. It doesn't mean it's impossible,

1:13:42.680 --> 1:13:44.320
<v Speaker 3>but we just have to hope.

1:13:44.880 --> 1:13:46.520
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, jeez, gotcha.

1:13:47.600 --> 1:13:51.600
<v Speaker 3>So if you look at these two causes alone of dysentery,

1:13:51.960 --> 1:13:55.360
<v Speaker 3>we're talking about millions of cases and hundreds of thousands

1:13:55.400 --> 1:13:58.479
<v Speaker 3>of deaths due to dysentery just from these two sources.

1:13:58.600 --> 1:14:01.160
<v Speaker 3>And like I said before, there's other bacteria that can

1:14:01.200 --> 1:14:06.920
<v Speaker 3>also cause the same illnesses essentially, So obviously the biggest

1:14:06.920 --> 1:14:10.080
<v Speaker 3>deal when it comes to dysentery and diarrheal diseases in

1:14:10.120 --> 1:14:15.519
<v Speaker 3>general is trying to prevent them, right, And like you mentioned, Aaron,

1:14:15.600 --> 1:14:18.599
<v Speaker 3>getting better at prevention means access to clean water and

1:14:18.600 --> 1:14:22.960
<v Speaker 3>sanitation so that people aren't coming into contact with human feces,

1:14:23.400 --> 1:14:25.680
<v Speaker 3>and that's really the bottom line.

1:14:25.840 --> 1:14:27.080
<v Speaker 2>The other bottom.

1:14:26.720 --> 1:14:31.200
<v Speaker 3>Line, like I mentioned way towards the beginning, is addressing

1:14:31.240 --> 1:14:34.519
<v Speaker 3>problems of nutrition, because malnutrition is a huge risk factor

1:14:34.600 --> 1:14:39.120
<v Speaker 3>for severity of disease, especially for antamba histolytica, but also

1:14:39.240 --> 1:14:42.840
<v Speaker 3>for other forms of diarrhea and dysentery and both of

1:14:42.840 --> 1:14:49.040
<v Speaker 3>those things. Addressing malnutrition and addressing sanitation takes infrastructure, which

1:14:49.280 --> 1:14:54.479
<v Speaker 3>takes money, right, So a lot of different organizations, the

1:14:54.479 --> 1:14:57.720
<v Speaker 3>World Health Organization, UNICEF so many others, have a lot

1:14:57.760 --> 1:15:02.080
<v Speaker 3>of lofty goals to eliminate deaths from diarrheal diseases by

1:15:02.320 --> 1:15:03.320
<v Speaker 3>twenty twenty five.

1:15:03.640 --> 1:15:04.839
<v Speaker 2>That's one of their goals.

1:15:06.280 --> 1:15:09.479
<v Speaker 3>I don't actually know how well they're doing on that front. Again,

1:15:09.520 --> 1:15:13.120
<v Speaker 3>it's hard to get some data on this, but if

1:15:13.120 --> 1:15:16.519
<v Speaker 3>we just look at sanitation. Overall, the World Health Organization

1:15:16.720 --> 1:15:19.800
<v Speaker 3>estimates that only forty five percent of the global population

1:15:20.320 --> 1:15:24.360
<v Speaker 3>currently have a safely managed sanitation system, like one that

1:15:24.479 --> 1:15:28.920
<v Speaker 3>is going to actually be effective at preventing intestinal pathogens

1:15:28.960 --> 1:15:29.559
<v Speaker 3>from spreading.

1:15:31.000 --> 1:15:32.320
<v Speaker 2>So that's not great.

1:15:34.120 --> 1:15:37.080
<v Speaker 3>They also estimate the World Health Organization and this isn't

1:15:37.160 --> 1:15:40.200
<v Speaker 3>specific to dysentery. So if we look a little more broadly,

1:15:40.880 --> 1:15:44.120
<v Speaker 3>the World Health Organization estimates that eight hundred and twenty

1:15:44.160 --> 1:15:47.280
<v Speaker 3>seven thousand people die as a result of inadequate water,

1:15:47.600 --> 1:15:52.000
<v Speaker 3>sanitation and hygiene, and this altogether accounts for sixty percent

1:15:52.040 --> 1:15:53.240
<v Speaker 3>of all diarrheal deaths.

1:15:54.680 --> 1:15:56.320
<v Speaker 2>That's so wow.

1:15:56.520 --> 1:16:01.519
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so improving access to clean water sanitation can prevent

1:16:01.720 --> 1:16:05.479
<v Speaker 3>literally hundreds of thousands of deaths, including nearly three hundred.

1:16:05.280 --> 1:16:07.599
<v Speaker 2>Thousand children under the age of five, every year.

1:16:07.680 --> 1:16:08.800
<v Speaker 1>Oh my gosh. Yeah.

1:16:09.200 --> 1:16:10.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

1:16:11.439 --> 1:16:15.360
<v Speaker 3>So that's kind of where research needs to focus at

1:16:15.360 --> 1:16:17.120
<v Speaker 3>this point, is like what are the best ways to

1:16:17.160 --> 1:16:19.439
<v Speaker 3>sort of develop and implement those systems in ways that's

1:16:19.479 --> 1:16:22.000
<v Speaker 3>actually going to be sustainable and make a difference.

1:16:22.439 --> 1:16:25.000
<v Speaker 1>And permanent, like and not just like let's go in

1:16:25.840 --> 1:16:29.000
<v Speaker 1>build a bunch of you know, sanitation infrastructure and then

1:16:29.280 --> 1:16:32.400
<v Speaker 1>leave and then not provide any funds to maintain it exactly.

1:16:32.640 --> 1:16:37.240
<v Speaker 1>That's such a problem, right, Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:16:36.120 --> 1:16:39.760
<v Speaker 3>So, I mean that's kind of the status of diarrhea,

1:16:39.880 --> 1:16:43.639
<v Speaker 3>of sanitation of dysentery today. I kind of already mentioned

1:16:43.640 --> 1:16:46.400
<v Speaker 3>some of the interesting research that's going on in terms

1:16:46.400 --> 1:16:51.440
<v Speaker 3>of like how dysentery affects your overall microbiome and associations

1:16:51.479 --> 1:16:52.680
<v Speaker 3>with the development of things like.

1:16:52.640 --> 1:16:53.919
<v Speaker 2>Irritable bowel syndrome.

1:16:55.200 --> 1:16:58.040
<v Speaker 3>So we kind of already jumped ahead and talked about that.

1:17:00.400 --> 1:17:03.479
<v Speaker 3>And yeah, vaccines are something that's like people are doing

1:17:03.520 --> 1:17:06.599
<v Speaker 3>research on it, but we're not super far along from

1:17:06.600 --> 1:17:10.960
<v Speaker 3>what I read. That's dysentery, Aaron. It's not a super

1:17:11.000 --> 1:17:11.639
<v Speaker 3>happy ending.

1:17:12.760 --> 1:17:16.759
<v Speaker 1>It's not. I don't think we should have expected one.

1:17:16.960 --> 1:17:18.639
<v Speaker 2>No, No, we never.

1:17:18.520 --> 1:17:22.479
<v Speaker 1>Do, especially when it comes to diseases that predominantly affect

1:17:22.680 --> 1:17:23.920
<v Speaker 1>developing countries.

1:17:24.520 --> 1:17:25.040
<v Speaker 2>Definitely.

1:17:25.680 --> 1:17:32.559
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well, sources, let's do it. Okay, I want to

1:17:32.600 --> 1:17:34.760
<v Speaker 1>shout out I have a bunch of articles, but I'm

1:17:34.760 --> 1:17:36.920
<v Speaker 1>going to shout out one book and a couple of

1:17:37.000 --> 1:17:41.840
<v Speaker 1>articles in particular. The book is titled Sanitation, Latrines and

1:17:41.880 --> 1:17:47.640
<v Speaker 1>Intestinal Parasites in Past Populations, and the editor is Piers Mitchell,

1:17:47.680 --> 1:17:51.320
<v Speaker 1>and then there was a great paper called a Brief

1:17:51.360 --> 1:17:56.240
<v Speaker 1>History of Shigella by lampell at All from twenty seventeen,

1:17:57.400 --> 1:18:03.280
<v Speaker 1>and then another paper by Haycock from two thousand and

1:18:03.320 --> 1:18:07.280
<v Speaker 1>two called Exterminated by the Bloody Flux. Ooh, that's a

1:18:07.280 --> 1:18:10.160
<v Speaker 1>good dab that was in the Journal for Maritime Research.

1:18:10.600 --> 1:18:11.240
<v Speaker 2>Oh cool.

1:18:12.439 --> 1:18:14.559
<v Speaker 3>I had a lot of papers for this one. That

1:18:14.680 --> 1:18:17.280
<v Speaker 3>awesome quote that I read was from a two thousand

1:18:17.280 --> 1:18:21.880
<v Speaker 3>and three paper titled Emibiasis in the Lancet. There was

1:18:22.040 --> 1:18:26.520
<v Speaker 3>a number of other papers I really loved dysentery, including amibiasis.

1:18:26.560 --> 1:18:29.439
<v Speaker 3>It was written in nineteen seventy three published in BMJ,

1:18:29.720 --> 1:18:32.320
<v Speaker 3>but it was a really nice overview of both shigella

1:18:32.439 --> 1:18:36.040
<v Speaker 3>and amybic dysentery. A few others on the biology, but

1:18:36.080 --> 1:18:40.240
<v Speaker 3>if you'd like to read more about dysentery and irritable

1:18:40.280 --> 1:18:44.120
<v Speaker 3>bowel disease, that paper is in the journal GUT, published

1:18:44.160 --> 1:18:46.679
<v Speaker 3>in two thousand and four. We'll post all of these

1:18:46.680 --> 1:18:49.800
<v Speaker 3>on our website, this podcast will Kill You dot Com

1:18:49.880 --> 1:18:50.960
<v Speaker 3>under the episodes tab.

1:18:51.840 --> 1:18:56.080
<v Speaker 1>We will a thank you to Bloodmobile for providing the

1:18:56.200 --> 1:18:59.080
<v Speaker 1>music for this episode and all of our episodes.

1:18:59.600 --> 1:19:02.280
<v Speaker 3>Thank you to exactly write network of whom we're very.

1:19:02.200 --> 1:19:05.640
<v Speaker 1>Proud to be a part, And thank you to you listeners.

1:19:05.840 --> 1:19:09.240
<v Speaker 1>Thanks for listening. You know this was a tough one,

1:19:09.280 --> 1:19:13.280
<v Speaker 1>so we're very appreciative that you hung in there with us.

1:19:13.600 --> 1:19:16.599
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and a special shout out to our patrons. Thank

1:19:16.640 --> 1:19:18.080
<v Speaker 3>you guys so much for supporting us.

1:19:18.600 --> 1:19:23.040
<v Speaker 1>Yes, thank you. Okay, this feels very appropriate, So until

1:19:23.120 --> 1:19:24.799
<v Speaker 1>next time, wash your hands

1:19:25.160 --> 1:19:26.360
<v Speaker 2>You filthy animals.