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Speaker 1: Cable news is ripping us apart, dividing the nation, making

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Speaker 1: what is true and what is false. The good news

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Speaker 1: the upcoming presidential election so we can provide unparalleled coverage

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Speaker 1: of what is sure to be one of the most

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Speaker 1: pivotal moments in American history. So what are you waiting for?

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Speaker 1: Go to Breakingpoints dot com to help us out. Joining

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Speaker 1: us now for our weekly partnership segment, we have David

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Speaker 1: Sioda of The Lever, who has many things to tell

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Speaker 1: us about his Hollywood Oscars experience. Great to see you, David.

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Speaker 1: Good to see you, David, good to see you both.

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Speaker 1: So two things. First of all, congrats on the Lever

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Speaker 1: rebranding and expansion, which is very exciting. And also congrats

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Speaker 1: on the Oscar nomination, even though you did not win

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Speaker 1: the award. That's unbelievable. That you were nominated for an

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Speaker 1: Oscar and got to go. So let's actually put your

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Speaker 1: latest piece on this up on the screen because you

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Speaker 1: wrote a little bit about what it was like, you say,

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Speaker 1: the Oscar speech that stayed in my pocket. It was

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Speaker 1: an honor to be nominated for a climate film. We

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Speaker 1: must continue to demand actions, So just give us a

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Speaker 1: little bit of your thoughts and reflections on this whole experience. David, Well,

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Speaker 1: it really was a great honor to be nominated, and

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Speaker 1: I should say it was a really great honor to

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Speaker 1: win the Writers Guilds Award for Best Original Screenplay with

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Speaker 1: Adam McKay, so that was from fellow writers, So that

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Speaker 1: was fantastic. And look, getting nominated is just it's not

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Speaker 1: a life plot twist I ever expected. So I had

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Speaker 1: a blast in the experience of it, just going to

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Speaker 1: see what that entire spectacle is like. I will admit

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Speaker 1: I was not in the room when Will Smith and

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Speaker 1: Chris Rock got into it. I had actually stepped out

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Speaker 1: to grab a drink and commiserate with some folks after

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Speaker 1: we didn't win the Oscar, so we were out in

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Speaker 1: the hall sort of lamenting that. But it was all great.

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Speaker 1: I will say, I was a little bit maybe not mystified,

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Speaker 1: but a little bit disappointed that the climate crisis did

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Speaker 1: not make any kind of appearance or mention at this

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Speaker 1: huge event where there's a you know, millions and millions

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Speaker 1: of people tuning in. I would have liked to have

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Speaker 1: seen that platform be used to mention some of the

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Speaker 1: things that are happening in our world that are of

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Speaker 1: great urgent import and that wasn't there. But as I

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Speaker 1: put on at the lever, I put out the speech

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Speaker 1: that I was going to give, and it was basically

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Speaker 1: going to say something very simple, which is that the

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Speaker 1: success of Don't look up the millions and millions of

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Speaker 1: people who tuned in. I mean, it was the number

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Speaker 1: two most watched movie on the world's largest streaming platform.

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Speaker 1: My hope is that the folks in that room would

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Speaker 1: take a lesson from that to say that there is

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Speaker 1: a huge pent up demand among millions and millions of

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Speaker 1: people for television shows, movies, journalism, all sorts of content

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Speaker 1: that honestly struggles with the climate crisis that is bearing

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Speaker 1: down on our world. And I would have asked everybody

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Speaker 1: in that room to use their enormous power to continue

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Speaker 1: to make content about that crisis that wrestles with the

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Speaker 1: uncomfortable and scary issues surrounding that crisis. So, David, in

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Speaker 1: terms of the the reaction to the Oscars, it kind

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Speaker 1: of validated your entire movie did in terms of, like

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Speaker 1: how people are just talking about Will Smith and all

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Speaker 1: that while the world burns. How did you make of

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Speaker 1: it in that context? I'll admit at times it felt

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Speaker 1: like I was inside the movie, like it felt kind

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Speaker 1: of Alice in Wonderland, like we had made a movie

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Speaker 1: about a comet headed towards Earth and everybody being distracted

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Speaker 1: with celebrity culture with all sorts of frivolous nonsense. And

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Speaker 1: then I was essentially at the Oscars, a place that

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Speaker 1: could have been, in part a platform for a discussion

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Speaker 1: or at least mention of some of the huge crises

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Speaker 1: happening in our world, and instead the takeaway from the

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Speaker 1: event was a fight between two celebrities. Now, obviously that

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Speaker 1: situation was incredibly shocking for what it was, but I

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Speaker 1: do think there's that meta message there, which is that

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Speaker 1: there really is this unbelievably powerful culture of distraction, especially

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Speaker 1: when it comes to celebrity culture, that makes it so

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Speaker 1: difficult for us to struggle, deal with, and negotiate and

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Speaker 1: debate the most imminent and pressing issues of the day.

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Speaker 1: And so I think it's a disturbing commentary on that,

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Speaker 1: And frankly, I don't have a kind of skeleton key

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Speaker 1: answer for how we think. I mean, I just came

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Speaker 1: off of doing a movie that millions and millions and

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Speaker 1: millions of people saw, and it culminated with an award

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Speaker 1: show that didn't make any reference of that at all. Now,

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Speaker 1: I don't mean that as like, hey, I'm annoyed or

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Speaker 1: sad or sour grapes of not winning. I was just

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Speaker 1: honored to be nominated. I'm making the larger point of

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Speaker 1: the question of will the culture industry and obviously the

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Speaker 1: corporate media industry and the political world, are we willing

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Speaker 1: to actually struggle with this crisis in a real way

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Speaker 1: or are we really just going to plow forward and

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Speaker 1: distract ourselves as things get worse. Well, I think there's

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Speaker 1: there's so much to dig into with this. Honestly, it's

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Speaker 1: quite a profound conversation because what you did prove with

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Speaker 1: Don't Look Up is that there is an appetite to

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Speaker 1: struggle with the big challenges facing the world in a

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Speaker 1: way that is thoughtful and that it doesn't have to

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Speaker 1: be vegetables. It can be a movie with a lot

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Speaker 1: of stars that's actually really fun to watch and really,

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Speaker 1: you know, entertaining. But the doing another Will Smith take

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Speaker 1: is easy and it's cheap, and it also gets clicks

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Speaker 1: and uws and eyeballs. So oftentimes, you know, cable news

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Speaker 1: producers or people in that industry, what they'll say is

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Speaker 1: basically like, well, you guys are getting the content that

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Speaker 1: you want because we know if we do you know,

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Speaker 1: the latest development and now Chris Rock says he's still

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Speaker 1: processing or whatever the latest take is. We know you're

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Speaker 1: going to look at it. But what you've demonstrated is

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Speaker 1: while that may be true, there is this desire for

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Speaker 1: this more thoughtful, more profound, more relevant, more important content

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Speaker 1: as well, you just have to have the willingness to

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Speaker 1: actually do the work to make that, you know, into

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Speaker 1: something that people really want to consume. That's such a

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Speaker 1: good point. I mean, I mean, you're right. I mean

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Speaker 1: one of my takeaways was, how do we make the

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Speaker 1: climate crisis in the end of the livable ecosystem that

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Speaker 1: supports all human life as compelling an interesting as two

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Speaker 1: celebrities fighting on a stage. Right. I mean, it's kind

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Speaker 1: of unbelievable that I have to ask that we have

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Speaker 1: to ask that question. But it also is a profoundly

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Speaker 1: I think a troubling commentary perhaps on the creativity of

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Speaker 1: the news industry. By that, I mean, if we can't

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Speaker 1: make the imminent demise of the livable ecosystem as compelling

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Speaker 1: as two celebrities fighting on a stage, then it's really

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Speaker 1: a commentary on us. It's not really a commentary on

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Speaker 1: the audience. It's a commentary on the news industry that

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Speaker 1: says it's not willing to muster the creativity and innovation

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Speaker 1: to make that unbelievably compelling story about the potential end

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Speaker 1: of the human species, to not make that story more compelling,

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Speaker 1: And so I think moving forward, the onus is on

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Speaker 1: all of us to muster that creativity in a systemic

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Speaker 1: way every single day. That's interesting. Here's the other thing

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Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you about, David. Obviously, you and

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Speaker 1: I have very similar politics. You work for Bernie, we're

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Speaker 1: both you know, broadly on the left. Do you think

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Speaker 1: that the right and the sort of like status quo

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Speaker 1: and the neoliberals and the military industrial complex do a

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Speaker 1: much better job of getting their stories told through sort

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Speaker 1: of pop culture than the left does. Because I think

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Speaker 1: that's part of why this movie struck such a nerve

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Speaker 1: is because it represented, you know, view of the world

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Speaker 1: that just isn't seen that much in Hollywood. You know,

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Speaker 1: I think, I don't think that's necessarily true. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I think that there are stories baked into a lot

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Speaker 1: of cultural products that especially now. I mean we go

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Speaker 1: back to the eighties, it's different, but I think now

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Speaker 1: you do see a number of cultural products, even you know,

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Speaker 1: animated movies for kids, that tell the story of unfairness

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Speaker 1: and inequality and the like. And I think, I don't

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Speaker 1: know if that's a quote unquote left story or quote

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Speaker 1: unquote right story, but I do think some of these

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Speaker 1: stories are are being told. I think I think the

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Speaker 1: problem is is that they are not uh they're they're

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Speaker 1: not necessarily calling for action, They're not necessarily indicting the

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Speaker 1: political and economic system. So so I think one thing

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Speaker 1: that set our movie apart in some ways is that

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Speaker 1: our movie was telling a story about the here and

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Speaker 1: now the system right now. I think a lot of

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Speaker 1: cultural products the problem is not necessarily a left or

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Speaker 1: right issue. It's that a lot of cultural products are

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Speaker 1: looking back in history is sort of the safe escape

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Speaker 1: of history or the safe escape of far away fantastical storylines.

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Speaker 1: And a lot of the content is not in the

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Speaker 1: here and now wrestling with issues that are that are

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Speaker 1: uncomfortable and and I think part of the reason is

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Speaker 1: is that the culture industry is in some ways risk averse.

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Speaker 1: If you make a set of content in the here

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Speaker 1: and now, the issue is going to be. The reason

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Speaker 1: it's risky is that everybody has an opinion a strong

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Speaker 1: opinion about and just a reason the reason I'm thinking

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Speaker 1: of it this way is because you obviously have like

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Speaker 1: a million you know, cops, reality TV shows, law, you know,

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Speaker 1: Law and Order and all these sorts of things you

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Speaker 1: have the Pentagon has made it a priority to put

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Speaker 1: out there, you know, all of these sort of like

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Speaker 1: military and like you know, pro war basically or sort

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Speaker 1: of glorifying war type of feature films. And you also

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Speaker 1: have a million stories of like the bootstrapping capitalists making

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Speaker 1: it up through the system, and the typical like American

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Speaker 1: dream story. And you have very little out there for

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Speaker 1: pop culture consumption that is you know, that is anti war,

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Speaker 1: that is pro labor union. I mean, the amount of

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Speaker 1: like union content and pop culture is basically nothing at

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Speaker 1: this point. So that's why frame it that way is

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Speaker 1: and I think and let me agree, let me just

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Speaker 1: agree with you on that that since the nineteen eighties,

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Speaker 1: there are a lot of tropes deep baked into content

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Speaker 1: that tell a very conservative story about the country. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I always think about Ghostbusters as an example. It's a

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Speaker 1: story about the private private essentially private military contractors having

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Speaker 1: to save the day from an inept government and from

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Speaker 1: an EPA that's overbearing, and you can track that through

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Speaker 1: up until now. I have seen something of a slight

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Speaker 1: change in some recent years with telling some stories about

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Speaker 1: corporate elites corporate villains that are a problem in society,

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Speaker 1: and that's been encouraging. I think it's been belated, but

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Speaker 1: I certainly agree with you on a deep programming level,

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Speaker 1: there is a very conservative story that continues to be

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Speaker 1: told over and over again, and that is, I agree

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Speaker 1: with you, a fundamental problem. Yeah, and there's oftentimes you know,

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Speaker 1: the focusing on diverse city an identity like that's very

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Speaker 1: comfortable for Hollywood at this point. But again on union's

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Speaker 1: labor corruption, those sorts of things I would love to

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Speaker 1: see more. I hope you're working on more projects. Also

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Speaker 1: shout out to the lora as for also telling a

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Speaker 1: great sort of anti capitalist story as well. But David

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Speaker 1: is always great to see you. Thanks for taking some

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Speaker 1: time to share your thoughts and congrats again, Thanks David,

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Speaker 1: thanks to both of you. Good see man. As we've

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Speaker 1: covered before, Senator Rick Scott of Florida, I just can't

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Speaker 1: help himself, but he's put out a new plan in

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Speaker 1: order to try and win the election in the midterms,

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Speaker 1: and that plan entails literally taxing poor people. The plan

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Speaker 1: is so absurd and obviously such a political detriment that

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Speaker 1: even Fox News is incredulous at his spin. Let's take

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Speaker 1: a lesson. Recently put out an eleven point plan to

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Speaker 1: rescue America. Two of the big points of which are, quote,

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Speaker 1: all Americans should pay some income tax to have skin

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Speaker 1: in the game, even if a small amount. Currently over

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Speaker 1: half of Americans pay no income. It also says all

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Speaker 1: federal legislation sunsets in five years. If a law is

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Speaker 1: worth keeping, Congress can pass it again, So that would

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Speaker 1: raise taxes on half of Americans and potentially sunset programs

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Speaker 1: like Medicare, Medicaid and social Security. Why would you propose

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Speaker 1: something like that in an election year? Sure, John, that's

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Speaker 1: of course the Democrat talking points. It's a lower it's

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Speaker 1: in the here's here, But here's this thing about reality

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Speaker 1: for a second's talk about John. It's not a Democratic

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Speaker 1: talking boy. It's in the plan. And also in the

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Speaker 1: plan it says we ought to every year talk about

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Speaker 1: exactly how we're going to fix medicare. Oh my god,

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Speaker 1: it's in the plan, Senator, And uh, he's right about that.

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Speaker 1: Let's put this up there on the screen. Per an

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Speaker 1: interview that Scott gave to his own Florida Politics outlet,

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Speaker 1: he said, it's quote unfair that poor people don't pay

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Speaker 1: income taxes, which is just frankly, completely incredible. And what's

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Speaker 1: so good about this is that even Mitch McConnell is like, dude,

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Speaker 1: this is too far. We don't support this. This is

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Speaker 1: not the official Republican position, even though it's the de

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Speaker 1: facto Republicans position. They just are like, why are you

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Speaker 1: talking about? Why are you talking the quiet part? Why

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Speaker 1: are you giving up the game here? What are you saying?

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Speaker 1: And Henry Olsen. He's a columnist to actually respect a lot,

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Speaker 1: you know, really into working class politics and all that.

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Speaker 1: But he's giving some he's giving some very practical advice

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Speaker 1: to the GOP. Let's put this up there from the

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Speaker 1: Washington Post House. Republicans would only hurt themselves by releasing

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Speaker 1: a detailed mid term agenda. And here's the thing he's

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Speaker 1: totally right one, which is that a lot of Republicans

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Speaker 1: do actually believe this. They do believe it's unfair that

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Speaker 1: poor people don't pay any income tax, even though they

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Speaker 1: pay a myriad of other taxes, and if you look

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Speaker 1: at their actual percentage base of income that they pay

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Speaker 1: is outrageous. Also, God, I be meaning to cover this,

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Speaker 1: maybe I'll do with some evergreen monologue. But that whole

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Speaker 1: report that just came out this year that people who

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Speaker 1: make less than twenty thousand dollars were five times more

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Speaker 1: likely to be audited than billionaires and anybody else. Five

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Speaker 1: times more likely to be audited when you make less

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Speaker 1: than twenty grand. So you're talking about the poorest Americans

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Speaker 1: are the easiest ones to be audited because they're not

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Speaker 1: reporting their you know, barbershop income or their service base

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Speaker 1: and nail tips, where yeah, okay, go after carried interests

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Speaker 1: and all that. Once you exhaust all the richest people

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Speaker 1: in the world, then maybe maybe we can talk about

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Speaker 1: the guy who gets paid in cash and doesn't report

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Speaker 1: his tips because he's trying to pay his rent and

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Speaker 1: is struggling to pay his bills. Maybe we can have

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Speaker 1: that conversation. But instead it's completely flipped. You know, this

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Speaker 1: whole Venmo thing. They're going after people's Venmo transactions. It

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Speaker 1: makes me furiated. This is, to think about it, classic

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Speaker 1: GOP really talking point. I mean, this is Meant Romney

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Speaker 1: forty seven percent at that time. I don't know if

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Speaker 1: y'all were watching Fox News, but I was actually doing

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Speaker 1: a lot of news hits during that era. What was

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Speaker 1: it like? I mean I was in college, so I

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Speaker 1: didn't fully know. Yeah, and they were this was a

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Speaker 1: consistent talking point about how half of America doesn't pay

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Speaker 1: any taxes and it's really the rich, they're the makers.

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Speaker 1: I mean, this is the Paul Ryan. Yeah, this is

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Speaker 1: the Paul Ryan era of talking about the makers and

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Speaker 1: takers and how and Mitt Romney in those very revealing

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Speaker 1: comments talking about how forty seven percent of people are

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Speaker 1: never going to care for themselves and there's no winning

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Speaker 1: them and all of that stuff. They're never going to

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Speaker 1: better themselves. I think that was the lectures that he

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Speaker 1: ultimately used. That all comes from what Rick Scott is

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Speaker 1: saying right here. They literally lost the presidential election in

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Speaker 1: part because Mitt Romney says this like cartoonishly villainous thing

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Speaker 1: that is completely contempual and also incredibly misleading, because as

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Speaker 1: you point out, people, you know, people who are lower

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Speaker 1: income pay a lot of different taxes, much higher percentage

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Speaker 1: of their income ultimately goes to taxes than certainly the

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Speaker 1: very top. This was rejected by the American people thoroughly.

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Speaker 1: In twenty twelve, Trump, although he governs in exactly the

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Speaker 1: same way and gives a corporate tax cut, is politically

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Speaker 1: smart enough to understand this is a disaster. Takes entitlements

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Speaker 1: off the table. This was also a log standing discussion

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Speaker 1: in the Republican Party. George W. Bush everts to privatize

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Speaker 1: our security. All of this stuff totally rejected by the

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Speaker 1: American people. And here comes Rick Scott, like, you know

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Speaker 1: what we should do if we get power again, Let's

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Speaker 1: raise taxes on half the country. How about we sunset

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Speaker 1: programs like Medicare and Social Security after five years. How

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Speaker 1: about we have a conversation every year about how we're

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Speaker 1: going to quote fix these programs. Well, most Americans think

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Speaker 1: the only fix that needs happening to those programs is

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Speaker 1: for them to be more generous, to support people more effectively. So, yeah,

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Speaker 1: Mitch McConnell and the other strategists who are like, we're

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Speaker 1: better off just not telling people what we actually want

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Speaker 1: to do, they are one hundred percent right. Democrats are

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Speaker 1: handing the election to them. All they have to do

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Speaker 1: is stay silent. And yet Rick Scott can't help them.

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Speaker 1: We just can't help them himself. And this is almost

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Speaker 1: the problem with these types of politicians. Rick Scott bought

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Speaker 1: hisself the governorship, He's worth like one hundred million dollars,

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Speaker 1: has some sketchy business practices in his past, bought himself

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Speaker 1: to Florida sentence. He's really not that talented of a politician.

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Speaker 1: I mean, he visited Puerto Rico a bunch of times.

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Speaker 1: Apparently that qualifies you in order to be the next senator.

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Speaker 1: And look, he's basically has a hole there on the

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Speaker 1: Florida political machine because of an immense amount of his

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Speaker 1: money and just look at him. The guy's literally a

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Speaker 1: clown in terms of the way he conducts himself. But

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Speaker 1: this is just an exact and perfect view into he

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Speaker 1: is the ideology of the mainstream of the Republican Senator. Well,

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Speaker 1: I still of the Republican Party, but in terms of

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Speaker 1: what the mean Republican senator believes, that's it right there.

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Speaker 1: They actually think this stuff, they're just too afraid to

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Speaker 1: say it out last decades of you know, of infrastructure

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Speaker 1: and research and apparatus just waiting. I mean, that's why

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Speaker 1: the one thing Trump gets accomplished when he's in office

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Speaker 1: is his tax Reforum that ultimately cuts taxes the rich,

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Speaker 1: because that's what their entire movement is set up economically

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Speaker 1: to ultimately sort of churn out. I just found this

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Speaker 1: news article. This is kind of interesting. According to playbook,

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Speaker 1: Trump is trying to recruit Rick Scott to be a

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Speaker 1: majority leader, which also shows you, I don't know if

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Speaker 1: this is like actually going to happen or a real thing,

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Speaker 1: but he hates Mitch McConnell so much just based on

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Speaker 1: stop the steal, like that's the only thing that matters.

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Speaker 1: So if ever, you wanted to even for a split

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Speaker 1: second delude yourself that there was some other policy platform involved.

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Speaker 1: I think this should dissuade you from that view. Guys,

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Speaker 1: we've of course been talking a lot about some of

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Speaker 1: the union drives across the country, whether it it strikes

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Speaker 1: at John Deere or the organizing efforts at Starbucks and

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Speaker 1: at Amazon. And we are going to speak now with

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Speaker 1: someone who has been on the front lines of fights

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Speaker 1: for unionization in this country. Daisy Pitkin is a union organizer,

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Speaker 1: and she was also author of a new book that

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Speaker 1: you all should definitely check out. It's called On the Line.

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Speaker 1: Go ahead and throw the bookjacket up on the screen

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Speaker 1: there there. It is. On the Line, a story of

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Speaker 1: class solidarity and two women's epic fight to build a union.

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Speaker 1: Great to have you, Daisy, Welcome, good to see you, Daisy. Hi,

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Speaker 1: thanks for having me on. Of course, yeah, it's our pleasure.

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Speaker 1: So the book is about your specific fight to organize

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Speaker 1: in Arizona. So it's part memoir, it's parts of union history,

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Speaker 1: it's part just what it takes, what it really means

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Speaker 1: to have solidarity and show solidarity. So just talk to

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Speaker 1: us a little bit about the backstory. Here. Yeah, So

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Speaker 1: the main story in the book, though, as you said,

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Speaker 1: it has multiple parts. But the main story in the

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Speaker 1: book is a five year campaign that I helped to

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Speaker 1: lead among industrial laundry workers in Phoenix, Arizona in the

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Speaker 1: early two thousands, where I worked for a kind of

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Speaker 1: a small, scrappy organizing union, UNITE, an offshoot of the

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Speaker 1: International Lady Ladies Garment Workers Union, and we underwent an

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Speaker 1: experiment in Phoenix, which was, you know, at the time,

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Speaker 1: I'm a deep red city in a deep red state,

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Speaker 1: to see if we could organize mostly immigrant workers in

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Speaker 1: these industrial laundry factories that are in every city across

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Speaker 1: the country but kind of go unnoticed or they're they're

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Speaker 1: largely invisible. And it took us five years to get

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Speaker 1: to majority union density in those factories. And it's the

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Speaker 1: story of what it took, and really of one of

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Speaker 1: the main worker leaders there, Alma, who's one of the

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Speaker 1: gutsiest worker leaders I've ever met, who really organized her

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Speaker 1: factory and the others around her across Phoenix. Wow. So, Daisy,

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Speaker 1: what did you learn in terms of organizing and the

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Speaker 1: barriers that exist for everyday Americans who want to try

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Speaker 1: and form an union. Well, I learned from just the

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Speaker 1: sort of day to day grind of organizing that it

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Speaker 1: took years to organize those factories. The main lesson is

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Speaker 1: that labor law in this country is broken. It is

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Speaker 1: it makes it very difficult to organize unions, even when

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Speaker 1: a strong majority of workers in a workplace want to

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Speaker 1: have a union. And part of that is because there

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Speaker 1: are a lot of loopholes in labor law that corporations,

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Speaker 1: especially very wealthy corporations, know how to exploit. They delay

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Speaker 1: the process, they draw the process out to try to

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Speaker 1: kill momentum and to give themselves time to union bust. Daisy,

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Speaker 1: tell us, sorry, tell us a little bit more. I'd

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Speaker 1: love for you to elaborate on that, but also tell

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Speaker 1: us a little bit more about these workers themselves and

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Speaker 1: the type of work that they were doing, which was

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Speaker 1: not only arduous and low paid and sort of invisibilized,

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Speaker 1: but also was actually dangerous. I mean, you're talking about

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Speaker 1: sorting through soiled linens coming from hospitals, syringes and other

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Speaker 1: things being found in the pockets. What was the day

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Speaker 1: to day like for them, where you know, a union

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Speaker 1: became so critical to improving their lives, so workers who

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Speaker 1: work in industrial laundries. Actually they sort and cleanse and

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Speaker 1: iron and pack tens of thousands of pounds of linens

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Speaker 1: from hospitals and also from restaurants and hotels every day.

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Speaker 1: So an almost factory was a hospital laundry. They were

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Speaker 1: washing tens of thousands of pounds of soiled hospital linen.

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Speaker 1: Alma works in the soil sort department, so she's actually

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Speaker 1: by hand sorting hospital linen that you can imagine all

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Speaker 1: the sorts of bodily fluids but also surgical tools that

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Speaker 1: come wrapped in sheets down a conveyor belt and very

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Speaker 1: rapidly she and her coworkers have to sort through it,

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Speaker 1: so they do get punctured by needles. There are syringes,

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Speaker 1: there are fluids bags that come down in the sheets,

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Speaker 1: so there's a lot of chemical and biohazardous exposure. And

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Speaker 1: in the rest of the factory, workers are working on

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Speaker 1: heavy machinery. Jams of the machines are very common. Workers

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Speaker 1: have to buy hand on jammed machines, and there are

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Speaker 1: massive industrial presses to iron the linens later on in

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Speaker 1: the factory, and workers there are burned often and it's heavy,

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Speaker 1: dangerous work and it's important I think for people to

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Speaker 1: understand that when you go to a hotel, when you

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Speaker 1: go to a hospital, when you go to a fancy

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Speaker 1: restaurant that has cloth napkins and tablecloths, you are touching

431
00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:34,920
Speaker 1: cloth or linens that workers will touch at the end

432
00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:38,320
Speaker 1: of the day. Workers and these massive industrial factories, and

433
00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:42,479
Speaker 1: they're dangerous, and workers are underpaid, and they're unionizing all

434
00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:46,840
Speaker 1: across the country today. See this is I think this

435
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:51,240
Speaker 1: is just highlights the hidden cost of a lot of

436
00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:55,600
Speaker 1: what everyday luxury life entails. You know, delivery for food

437
00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:58,080
Speaker 1: is great, but somebody's got actually deliver it, and the

438
00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:01,600
Speaker 1: conditions for these workplaces are completely hidden from a lot

439
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:04,919
Speaker 1: of us. So, in terms of bringing attention to this

440
00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:07,160
Speaker 1: by writing a book and more, what do you want

441
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:10,520
Speaker 1: more people out there to understand about unionization and what

442
00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:14,159
Speaker 1: needs to change for working people in this country? I

443
00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:16,879
Speaker 1: think you know, you open the segment by talking about

444
00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:19,800
Speaker 1: a lot of the kind of ground swell of organizing

445
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:23,560
Speaker 1: that we're seeing now. Amazon workers are organizing, Starbucks workers

446
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:27,840
Speaker 1: miraculously are standing up and organizing inside that multi billion

447
00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:33,480
Speaker 1: dollar corporation despite fierce union busting. Right. I hope that

448
00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:36,640
Speaker 1: the book will find its way to readers who might

449
00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:39,639
Speaker 1: not normally pick up a book about labor, and it

450
00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:43,040
Speaker 1: will give some context for those headlines that people are

451
00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:46,880
Speaker 1: seeing on a daily basis. They'll understand not only why

452
00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:50,920
Speaker 1: workers are organizing, but why it's so difficult to organize

453
00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:53,200
Speaker 1: and what it is that they're up against. What do

454
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:56,359
Speaker 1: you make of the current landscape, because on the one hand,

455
00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:58,240
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I think you watch the show

456
00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:00,840
Speaker 1: some we try to cover what's going on. There are

457
00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:03,480
Speaker 1: some really exciting things. The Starbucks workers is probably the

458
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:06,800
Speaker 1: most inspiring example across the country. This is the first

459
00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:09,639
Speaker 1: time Starbucks stores have been unionized, and it's caught on

460
00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:13,000
Speaker 1: like wildfire across the country. Why do you think that

461
00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:16,760
Speaker 1: they've been able to succeed when so many other efforts

462
00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:20,119
Speaker 1: to organize that sort of like you know, fast food

463
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:23,840
Speaker 1: or service sector workplaces have failed. And do you think

464
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:27,520
Speaker 1: that this represents a turning point in the labor movement?

465
00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:29,360
Speaker 1: Because the other side of that is you still see

466
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:33,440
Speaker 1: numbers coming out about how union density continues to fall

467
00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:36,720
Speaker 1: and there continue to be fewer sort of worker militant

468
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:39,159
Speaker 1: actions than there were in previous generations. So how do

469
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:42,919
Speaker 1: you evaluate all of that? I think we're at a

470
00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:45,879
Speaker 1: turning point, and I say that, you know, I know

471
00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:49,600
Speaker 1: that there's a risk of just sort of sounding overly optimistic,

472
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:54,320
Speaker 1: but I really am optimistic. The Starbucks workers campaign, in particular,

473
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:57,439
Speaker 1: it is the kind of ground swell that I didn't

474
00:26:57,680 --> 00:26:59,480
Speaker 1: know that I would see in my lifetime as a

475
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:02,840
Speaker 1: union organizer. It's one of the most incredible campaigns I

476
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:05,399
Speaker 1: can imagine. And part of what's incredible about it is

477
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:11,800
Speaker 1: that workers are it's really an organically worker led campaign.

478
00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:15,560
Speaker 1: These workers are organizing their own stores, and then they're

479
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:18,479
Speaker 1: organizing the stores next to them in the city, and

480
00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:22,679
Speaker 1: then they're forming citywide organizing committees, and they're organizing workers

481
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:26,520
Speaker 1: in the next city over. It's a true organic ground swell,

482
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:28,840
Speaker 1: and I think what's important about that is that it's

483
00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:33,119
Speaker 1: impossible for the company to kill that kind of momentum

484
00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:36,520
Speaker 1: right through. Any kind of the union busting efforts that

485
00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:38,719
Speaker 1: we've seen on the part of Starbucks at this point

486
00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:42,560
Speaker 1: have really just backfired. Every time they do something that

487
00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:46,639
Speaker 1: maybe they think will kill momentum, momentum just increases. You know,

488
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:49,720
Speaker 1: like thirty stores will file for election the day after

489
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:54,280
Speaker 1: they fire someone, because because it is such an organic

490
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:56,639
Speaker 1: ground swell, and I think the challenge to the union

491
00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:59,360
Speaker 1: at this point, and I say that as an organizer

492
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:01,800
Speaker 1: for workers, you know, I work for the union that

493
00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:05,720
Speaker 1: is lucky enough to be part of that campaign. I

494
00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:08,840
Speaker 1: think our challenge as organizers at this point is to

495
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:12,480
Speaker 1: do what we can to help facilitate that organic growth

496
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:16,080
Speaker 1: and momentum right and not try to contain it in

497
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:18,720
Speaker 1: any way to allow it to just sort of burn

498
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:21,640
Speaker 1: across the country as the kind of wildfire that it is.

499
00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:25,000
Speaker 1: We're learning a lot from that campaign, I think about

500
00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:29,679
Speaker 1: how to help workers organize themselves, and we're learning a

501
00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:32,000
Speaker 1: lot about what it looks like to take on a

502
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:36,640
Speaker 1: multi billion dollar corporation and win Daisy. One other thing,

503
00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:39,320
Speaker 1: one last thing. I don't know if you have an answer,

504
00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:41,320
Speaker 1: but this is something we've been talking about, We've been

505
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:43,320
Speaker 1: talking to our producer James about and trying to sort

506
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:48,680
Speaker 1: of puzzle through. Is the average Starbucks worker is more

507
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:53,520
Speaker 1: likely to be college educated than other workers in sort

508
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:57,720
Speaker 1: of similarly situated like in fast food restaurants for example.

509
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:01,040
Speaker 1: Do you think that that has met has it played

510
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:04,280
Speaker 1: a role, has that changed the way that the organizing

511
00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:07,760
Speaker 1: has unfolded? What do you make of that. I think

512
00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:10,960
Speaker 1: it's true that they're more likely to be college educated,

513
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:15,680
Speaker 1: and I think also the workers who I know are younger.

514
00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:20,800
Speaker 1: They have been recently sort of politicized by, you know,

515
00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:23,000
Speaker 1: in some ways, the pandemic, in some ways the last

516
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:27,240
Speaker 1: presidential election, in some ways just sort of the world

517
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 1: around them. It's sort of that, it's that it has

518
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:33,920
Speaker 1: come into sharp focus for a lot of these workers

519
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:37,560
Speaker 1: that there are a lot of forces inside corporate capitalism

520
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:41,040
Speaker 1: that are working against them, right, And they come to

521
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:45,520
Speaker 1: the campaign with some skills, basic skills about like how

522
00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:48,120
Speaker 1: to build a database, how to get on zoom and

523
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:52,240
Speaker 1: use zoom, that workers in other industries where I've organized

524
00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:56,080
Speaker 1: have not necessarily had. But I think what that teaches

525
00:29:56,280 --> 00:30:00,160
Speaker 1: me as an organizer is that the expertise that I

526
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:04,880
Speaker 1: bring to a campaign in doing those kinds of basic things,

527
00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:11,160
Speaker 1: that expertise needs to be democratized the moment a campaign begins, right,

528
00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:16,400
Speaker 1: that those skills are important so that workers can organize themselves,

529
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:20,520
Speaker 1: can drive their own campaigns, and can organize other workers

530
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:23,400
Speaker 1: in the industry. So it's teaching me as an organizer

531
00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:26,440
Speaker 1: that we need to teach those skills regardless of the

532
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:29,000
Speaker 1: industry we're organizing in so that this kind of ground

533
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:33,480
Speaker 1: swell can be built in other places. Yeah, really interesting insights.

534
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:35,480
Speaker 1: So great to have you today, guys. Let's put the

535
00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:37,680
Speaker 1: book Jacket up on the screen one more time. The

536
00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:40,200
Speaker 1: book is on the line. A story of class solidarity

537
00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:44,080
Speaker 1: into women's epic fight to build a union by Daisy Pitkin.

538
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:46,520
Speaker 1: Great to speak with you today, Daisy, Thank you so much.

539
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:48,960
Speaker 1: Speak with you too. Thanks Bak down there in the description,

540
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:51,760
Speaker 1: everybody go buy the book, Thank you, Daisy, thank you.

541
00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:56,560
Speaker 1: Whenever it comes to Fox News, and whenever it comes

542
00:30:56,600 --> 00:30:58,680
Speaker 1: to taxes, you can always count on some cringe takes.

543
00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:02,440
Speaker 1: So they had on a couple of experts and cried,

544
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:05,520
Speaker 1: won't somebody think of the ultra rich in this country?

545
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:09,480
Speaker 1: Let's take a listen. But as a business man, is

546
00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:15,600
Speaker 1: it smart to raise the corporate tax rate in this environment? Yeah?

547
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:18,080
Speaker 1: I would not be supportive of having the corporate tax

548
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:20,440
Speaker 1: rate go to twenty eight percent. I actually don't have

549
00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:23,560
Speaker 1: an issue with a minimum global corporate tax rate at

550
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:26,520
Speaker 1: twenty percent. Many of them don't even pay that, and

551
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:29,560
Speaker 1: I think actually domestic we could even see twenty five percent,

552
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:32,640
Speaker 1: depending where the money went for things. Like military. And

553
00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:35,680
Speaker 1: with respect to Steve, as he knows the budget that

554
00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:39,120
Speaker 1: past presidents have put in front, never get to the

555
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:41,640
Speaker 1: table that way. This is going to be done by

556
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:45,080
Speaker 1: the Congress. Congress is not going to have a wealth

557
00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:47,240
Speaker 1: tax in many of these things that they're touting for.

558
00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:50,000
Speaker 1: But we should actually close some of the loopholes so

559
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:56,120
Speaker 1: the wealthy pay their Fairwell, but you said the tax

560
00:31:56,160 --> 00:32:00,840
Speaker 1: is in this quickly thought one of those Americans who

561
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 1: are still in the last year paying no federal income taxes,

562
00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:09,280
Speaker 1: how about addressing that? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think everyone

563
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:11,480
Speaker 1: has to pay their fair share. I don't have I

564
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:14,800
Speaker 1: don't have any with everyone paying their fair share. So

565
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:24,200
Speaker 1: if there's a difference, this is why Robert go let me.

566
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:27,560
Speaker 1: There's a big difference between the show and taxing the

567
00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:31,000
Speaker 1: wealthy and cutting and cutting loopholes. There's a big difference

568
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:34,120
Speaker 1: between those two. I gotta leave it there, Steve two seconds.

569
00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:36,400
Speaker 1: The Steve Forbes flat tax is the way to go

570
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:39,120
Speaker 1: that everybody plays their fair share. There's no loopholes, there's

571
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:43,200
Speaker 1: no special cab changing that might agree on that. All right,

572
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:46,560
Speaker 1: good to have you both. Oh, first of all, God,

573
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:49,040
Speaker 1: that is why I hate cable news. So much, everyone's

574
00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:53,440
Speaker 1: talking over each other. Anybody anything from that? No, absolutely not,

575
00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:56,120
Speaker 1: But actually it's a very instructive way. Won't assume we

576
00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:58,600
Speaker 1: would about all of these people who don't pay Why

577
00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:02,000
Speaker 1: are you targeting the rich? As I have said previously,

578
00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:06,040
Speaker 1: people who are working class and poor actually pay an

579
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:08,880
Speaker 1: inordinate amount of their income in tax, just in a

580
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:11,800
Speaker 1: different tax. Just because they don't pay income tax doesn't

581
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:14,520
Speaker 1: mean they're not paying revenue to the federal government. And

582
00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:16,920
Speaker 1: if you look at the percentage base of their income

583
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:19,440
Speaker 1: that they're kicking up to Uncle Sam on Medicare and

584
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:22,160
Speaker 1: payroll tax specifically, they're paying a lot more than some

585
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:24,479
Speaker 1: of the richest people in the country. We did an

586
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:28,000
Speaker 1: entire segment on the show specifically about how billionaires actually

587
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:30,280
Speaker 1: finance a lot of their lives. I would guarantee you,

588
00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:32,400
Speaker 1: for example, Bezos, I don't think you paid cash for

589
00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:34,520
Speaker 1: that yacht. The way it works is he takes his

590
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:36,880
Speaker 1: hundreds of billions of dollars with an Amazon stock and

591
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:39,520
Speaker 1: he borrows a ton of cash against it alone is

592
00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:42,240
Speaker 1: not a taxable event according to the IRS, So you

593
00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:44,840
Speaker 1: can finance all of that, and as long as Amazon

594
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:48,080
Speaker 1: stock remains above a certain price threshold. He's got no

595
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:51,520
Speaker 1: margin call, which means that he can do whatever he wants.

596
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:54,280
Speaker 1: And this is how all of the ultra relitch live

597
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:57,080
Speaker 1: because they don't have to sell anything. They have a

598
00:33:57,120 --> 00:33:59,680
Speaker 1: taxable event one time when they buy the asset or

599
00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:01,360
Speaker 1: if they create the company. They don't ever have a

600
00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:03,320
Speaker 1: tax bowl event, and then they just continue to take

601
00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:05,959
Speaker 1: loans on that forever and pay an effective tax rate

602
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:08,680
Speaker 1: of sometimes two percent, one percent. I mean, at one point,

603
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:11,880
Speaker 1: Bezos actually got paid by the government in terms of

604
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:16,040
Speaker 1: the earned income Tax Credit because of the earning EITC

605
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:19,120
Speaker 1: because of his fake income, and that made it so

606
00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:22,040
Speaker 1: that he was getting money from Uncle Sam. That's how

607
00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:24,360
Speaker 1: it really works. I mean, elon it really is the

608
00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:27,799
Speaker 1: absolute an outlier here. Because of the way that his

609
00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:30,560
Speaker 1: income was structured. He ended up paying more in income

610
00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:33,600
Speaker 1: tax or in tax than any other American before him.

611
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:36,520
Speaker 1: But that was because of the way his compensation structure

612
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:39,120
Speaker 1: was created. A lot of these billionaires never even have

613
00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:42,319
Speaker 1: to sell stock in order to pay tax period. And

614
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:44,960
Speaker 1: we're just talking about the most famous. These are the

615
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:47,160
Speaker 1: richest of the right, and not only a lot, but

616
00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:49,799
Speaker 1: you know, if you look at the billionaire class, it's

617
00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:53,880
Speaker 1: a lot of you know, financial engineers, and they know

618
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:56,560
Speaker 1: how to work the system more than anyone. I mean,

619
00:34:56,880 --> 00:35:00,279
Speaker 1: remember when we had the Pandora papers come out, one

620
00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:03,279
Speaker 1: of the revelations was like, oh, American billionaires, they don't

621
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:05,959
Speaker 1: actually they're not actually really represented in these papers because

622
00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:07,799
Speaker 1: they don't have to hide their wealth. They have an

623
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:11,480
Speaker 1: entire tax system just set up to make sure that

624
00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:15,400
Speaker 1: they never pay taxes on almost any of their income. Ultimately.

625
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:17,600
Speaker 1: The other thing that's interesting, there's a couple things that

626
00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:21,600
Speaker 1: are interesting here. Number One, even the dude that they

627
00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:24,240
Speaker 1: got to be the opposition to be like, well, maybe

628
00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:26,799
Speaker 1: we should rease the taxes a little bit. Even he

629
00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:29,279
Speaker 1: is like, oh, yeah, make the pores pay too. He's like,

630
00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:31,640
Speaker 1: everyone should pay their fair share. Of course, I agree

631
00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:34,280
Speaker 1: with you there. So he's very meekly. He still doesn't

632
00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:37,640
Speaker 1: even support Biden's proposal. They's sort of like meekly suggesting

633
00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:41,080
Speaker 1: maybe the rich should potentially pay more in tax. The

634
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:44,040
Speaker 1: other thing that's interesting to note is a significant chunk

635
00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:46,840
Speaker 1: of their audience does not agree with this perspective that

636
00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:50,200
Speaker 1: is being offered. Something like seventy percent of Americans are

637
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:54,160
Speaker 1: on board with and enthusiastic about increasing taxes on the

638
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:57,719
Speaker 1: wealthy because it is just so blatantly unfair. And of

639
00:35:57,719 --> 00:36:02,120
Speaker 1: course we've covered here multiple times how not only the poor,

640
00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:06,279
Speaker 1: you know, overly burdened in terms of their tax liability

641
00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:09,040
Speaker 1: across sort of all categories of taxes, they are also

642
00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:13,239
Speaker 1: much more likely to be targeted by the irs. So

643
00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:17,200
Speaker 1: even if you know, wealthy people like actively cheat, go

644
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:20,799
Speaker 1: even beyond the rig system to actually cheat, they are

645
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:24,200
Speaker 1: unlikely to be audited, and are audited at much much

646
00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:29,360
Speaker 1: lower rates than regular working class, lower income people. The

647
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:33,560
Speaker 1: other thing that's interesting to note here is Trump early on,

648
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:35,759
Speaker 1: remember when he was run in the first time, he

649
00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:37,839
Speaker 1: claimed he was going to raise taxes on the rich,

650
00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:39,719
Speaker 1: and there was a kind of a freak out on

651
00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:41,520
Speaker 1: the Republican side that, oh my god, he's going to

652
00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:44,640
Speaker 1: change the orthodoxy here and he's going to actually like

653
00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:46,960
Speaker 1: be the person to go after the rich. Of course,

654
00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:51,960
Speaker 1: that never happened quite the opposite. He gave another massive

655
00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:55,600
Speaker 1: giveaway to the wealthy and to corporate America. And so

656
00:36:55,719 --> 00:36:59,160
Speaker 1: now they're just right back to the exact talking points

657
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:02,000
Speaker 1: from Admit Romney era. I mean, I keep saying this

658
00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:03,960
Speaker 1: that this is the era when I was on Fox

659
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:06,880
Speaker 1: News regularly, and this sounds like the same old crap

660
00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:09,440
Speaker 1: that they were saying at the same time that was

661
00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:14,320
Speaker 1: roundly repeatedly rejected by the American public. So listen, Republicans

662
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:16,920
Speaker 1: are well set to do, you know, quite well in

663
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:19,560
Speaker 1: these mid terms because they're just like mostly not talking

664
00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:22,080
Speaker 1: about their agenda, with the exception of Rick Scott, but

665
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:24,239
Speaker 1: the moment that Americans get another look at what their

666
00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:26,680
Speaker 1: actual economic priorities are, it could be a different. Well,

667
00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:29,280
Speaker 1: here's what's going to happen. It's American politics is cyclical.

668
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:31,840
Speaker 1: They'll come in based on a rejection message, then they'll

669
00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:35,680
Speaker 1: introduce their package. People will mostly not pay attention. Then

670
00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:38,920
Speaker 1: a Republican will probably win the presidential election, and then

671
00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:41,040
Speaker 1: they're going to cut taxes again, and then they'll become

672
00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:43,560
Speaker 1: historically unpopular and then they'll get voted out and a

673
00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:45,879
Speaker 1: Democrat will come in, but then they'll be unpopular because

674
00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:48,520
Speaker 1: they're inept, and then the entire thing will reports got

675
00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:51,719
Speaker 1: over and over and over. I mean, they're probactically talking

676
00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:54,040
Speaker 1: about like we got a sunset Medicare and no, they're

677
00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:56,440
Speaker 1: going to do it, oh social Security. Believe them they'll

678
00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:58,120
Speaker 1: do it as we found out what the Tax cuts

679
00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:00,719
Speaker 1: and Jobs Act. Then they'll become unpopular than they'll lose

680
00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:03,000
Speaker 1: an election, and then the whole cycle repeat it. But

681
00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:06,120
Speaker 1: then they'll win again because of the cyclical nature. This

682
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:10,080
Speaker 1: is the ideology above all else that they are committed.

683
00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:12,880
Speaker 1: I agree with that where it could be possibly abandoned,

684
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:14,799
Speaker 1: but I'm telling you it is baked in. It is

685
00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:17,560
Speaker 1: too because this is where so much of the money

686
00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:20,760
Speaker 1: and the infrastructure. I mean, this is this is why

687
00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:23,080
Speaker 1: when you have Trump, even someone who claimed he was

688
00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:25,520
Speaker 1: going to break the economic orthodoxy, the thing that is

689
00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:27,239
Speaker 1: ready made and is pushed through. The one thing he

690
00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:29,880
Speaker 1: accomplishes is the Paul Ryan you tax cup. I gotta

691
00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:31,640
Speaker 1: say too, Look, I get it. A lot of these

692
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:36,200
Speaker 1: people are small business owners who are the hardcore constituency

693
00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:38,760
Speaker 1: of the party. And look, we are now small business

694
00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:41,160
Speaker 1: owners and it's annoying as hell in order to try

695
00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:43,799
Speaker 1: and navigate all the regulation and the red tape and

696
00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:46,399
Speaker 1: all that. That does not mean though, that is even

697
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:48,319
Speaker 1: as a small business owner, that you would want in

698
00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:52,200
Speaker 1: order to advocate for, you know, less benefits to overall people.

699
00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:54,640
Speaker 1: It actually would probably help us if that were the

700
00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:58,000
Speaker 1: case and level the playing field visa v. The corporation.

701
00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:00,480
Speaker 1: So there's a lot of rhetorical buy in. People who

702
00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:02,799
Speaker 1: are fed up with the federal government end up buying

703
00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:05,200
Speaker 1: into that. They don't understand the full scale of the

704
00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:08,839
Speaker 1: corporate welfare that they're actually substanazing. Pitch it as this

705
00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:11,680
Speaker 1: is for small business, but it's not really for the

706
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:14,319
Speaker 1: top point oh one. And we found that out. I mean,

707
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:16,319
Speaker 1: the amount of red tape that we have to go

708
00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:19,280
Speaker 1: through in order to run this business is unbelievable. Relative

709
00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:22,360
Speaker 1: to a massive fortune five hundred corporation that they have,

710
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:25,600
Speaker 1: all these lawyers that are constantly saving money on taxes

711
00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:28,440
Speaker 1: and loopholes and all this other nonsense. We don't have

712
00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:30,600
Speaker 1: access to any of that, I mean, And so we

713
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:33,600
Speaker 1: you know, we're the ones who ultimately suffer. And it's

714
00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:36,280
Speaker 1: just like many other small business owners who can't compete.

715
00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:38,319
Speaker 1: But you get taken in then by the rhetoric, and

716
00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:40,799
Speaker 1: then the rhetoric is what ends up subsidizing people at

717
00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:42,919
Speaker 1: the top. So looks all I would say is let's

718
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:45,520
Speaker 1: all unite together and say screw you up to the

719
00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:48,879
Speaker 1: people who have really have the system rigged. Indeed really

720
00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:51,000
Speaker 1: do so guys, we have a new update for you

721
00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:55,600
Speaker 1: on the latest censorship insanity. So, like Abby Martin before him,

722
00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:59,239
Speaker 1: Chris Hedges has now had the entire catalog of his

723
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:02,759
Speaker 1: show that he hosts did on RT for years deleted

724
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:08,160
Speaker 1: from YouTube, completely indiscriminately, without regard to any topical considerations

725
00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:10,880
Speaker 1: or anything like that. Let's go ahead and put Chris's

726
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:13,360
Speaker 1: article that he wrote on this up on the screen,

727
00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:16,319
Speaker 1: he says, Hedges on being disappeared, which is a good

728
00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:18,359
Speaker 1: way of putting that. I really recommend you read all

729
00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:20,800
Speaker 1: of this because, as always Chris Hedges, you know, Pulitzer

730
00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:25,560
Speaker 1: Prize winning journalists, incredibly thoughtful and extraordinarily beautiful with the

731
00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:27,880
Speaker 1: language as well. But this one part I wanted to

732
00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:31,200
Speaker 1: read for you makes a very important point. He says,

733
00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:33,520
Speaker 1: there's not one show here that dealt with Russia. I

734
00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:35,839
Speaker 1: was on RT because, as a vocal critic of US

735
00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:39,000
Speaker 1: imperialism and militarism and of the corporate control of the

736
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:41,920
Speaker 1: two ruling parties, and especially because I support the boycott,

737
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:46,319
Speaker 1: divestment and sanctions movement against Israel, I was blacklisted. I

738
00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:49,800
Speaker 1: was on RT for the same reason the dissident Vaclav Hovel,

739
00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:51,880
Speaker 1: who I knew was on Voice of America during the

740
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:55,640
Speaker 1: communist regime in Czechoslovakia. It was that or not be heard.

741
00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:58,840
Speaker 1: Hovel had no more love for the policies of Washington

742
00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:01,920
Speaker 1: than I have for those of Moscow. And he goes

743
00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:05,080
Speaker 1: through some of the interviews that are lost here. I

744
00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:09,040
Speaker 1: mean interviews with people like Noam Chomsky, with Cornell West,

745
00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:13,240
Speaker 1: with Naomi Wolf, interviews with Stephen Donziger, you know, interviews

746
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:18,000
Speaker 1: with Glenn Greenwald and Matt Tayeebe, discussions of literature, discussions

747
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:21,600
Speaker 1: of history. It didn't matter what it was. It was

748
00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:24,399
Speaker 1: just the fact that it was affiliated with our tea

749
00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:29,719
Speaker 1: in any way. It gets completely and holy disappeared. Stephen Donziger,

750
00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:32,239
Speaker 1: who I just mentioned, who had appeared on the show

751
00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:36,920
Speaker 1: and obviously has been insanely persecuted by Chevron in cooperation

752
00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:39,640
Speaker 1: with our judicial system. He tweeted about this. Let's go

753
00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:41,759
Speaker 1: ahead and put that up on the screen. He says,

754
00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:45,480
Speaker 1: breaking YouTube wipes out the entire video archive of Pulitzer

755
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:48,279
Speaker 1: Prize winning journalists Chris Hedges, including his interviews with me

756
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:53,279
Speaker 1: about my illegal Chevron prosecution and detention. Censorship by big

757
00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:56,400
Speaker 1: Tech is the greatest threat to free speech today. Our

758
00:41:56,400 --> 00:42:00,440
Speaker 1: friend Matt Tayibe also spoke with Chris Hedges about this.

759
00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:02,680
Speaker 1: We could put his tear sheet up on the screen

760
00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:05,240
Speaker 1: as well with a quote there from Chris. It says

761
00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:09,120
Speaker 1: they will shut down Substack. I absolutely know, and of

762
00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:12,319
Speaker 1: course the knives have long been out for Substack. I

763
00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:14,799
Speaker 1: think the only thing that is protecting Substack right now

764
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:16,440
Speaker 1: is the fact that they do have these sort of

765
00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:20,239
Speaker 1: like never Trump resistance type figuresipes, which is good, which

766
00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:23,600
Speaker 1: is great, ideologically diverse, They've done a great job at

767
00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:26,680
Speaker 1: doing that. But he is absolutely right that any of

768
00:42:26,719 --> 00:42:30,480
Speaker 1: these spaces of independent thought are ultimately at risk because

769
00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:32,480
Speaker 1: you see how quickly this happened. I mean, just like this.

770
00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:34,680
Speaker 1: Chris is such a good rider. I got to set

771
00:42:34,719 --> 00:42:37,000
Speaker 1: a recredible more from this. What were my sins? I

772
00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:39,520
Speaker 1: did not, like my former employer, The New York Times,

773
00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:42,320
Speaker 1: sell you the lie of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq,

774
00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:45,800
Speaker 1: pedal conspiracy theories about Donald Trump being a Russian asset,

775
00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:48,400
Speaker 1: put out a ten part podcast called The Caliphate that

776
00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:50,759
Speaker 1: was a hoax, or tell you that the information on

777
00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:54,719
Speaker 1: Hunter Biden's laptop was disinformation. I did not prophesize Joe

778
00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:57,560
Speaker 1: Biden was the next FDR or the Hillary Clinton was

779
00:42:57,600 --> 00:43:00,640
Speaker 1: going to win the election. This censorship is about supporting

780
00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:04,120
Speaker 1: what as if Stone reminds us, governments always do challenge

781
00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:07,120
Speaker 1: the official lie, as I often did, you will soon

782
00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:10,279
Speaker 1: become a non person. On digital media, Julian Nsanjra and

783
00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:13,080
Speaker 1: Edward Snowden exposed the truth about the criminal inner workings

784
00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:15,840
Speaker 1: of power. Look where they are now. This censorship is

785
00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:19,320
Speaker 1: one step removed from Joseph Stalin's whitewashing of non persons

786
00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:22,360
Speaker 1: such as Leon Trotsky out of official photographs. It is

787
00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:25,680
Speaker 1: a destruction of collective memory. It removes those moments in

788
00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:28,440
Speaker 1: media and the press when we attempted to examine an

789
00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:31,560
Speaker 1: a reality in ways the ruling class did not appreciate.

790
00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:35,600
Speaker 1: The goal is to foster historical amnesia. If we don't

791
00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:38,200
Speaker 1: know what happened in the past, we cannot make sense

792
00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:41,399
Speaker 1: of the present. That is just so well written and

793
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:44,360
Speaker 1: bringing you the words of a disappeared man, which is

794
00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:47,720
Speaker 1: really dark. I mean, yes, it is book. The guy

795
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:51,160
Speaker 1: is a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist. If you think that

796
00:43:51,239 --> 00:43:53,840
Speaker 1: he deserves to get taken off because he happened to

797
00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:56,000
Speaker 1: work for our tea, you're crazy. I don't know what

798
00:43:56,040 --> 00:43:58,719
Speaker 1: to tell you. Same with Abby Martin. I mean, she's

799
00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:02,080
Speaker 1: done excellentjournalism. I don't agree with all of it, doesn't matter.

800
00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:05,640
Speaker 1: She is somebody courageous as a courageous woman who has

801
00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:07,560
Speaker 1: willing to you know, gone up and stand up and

802
00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:11,000
Speaker 1: scream in the face of power, no question, she deserves

803
00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:14,080
Speaker 1: not just a voice, I mean prominence, the ability to

804
00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:17,760
Speaker 1: stand right up next to anybody who is challenging power

805
00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:19,919
Speaker 1: in the way that they purport to, you know, over

806
00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:21,919
Speaker 1: at the CNNs and all of that out of the world,

807
00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:23,920
Speaker 1: and not enough people are willing to speak up because

808
00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:26,040
Speaker 1: they happen to work for Russia today. I don't care

809
00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:28,279
Speaker 1: if they were for Russia today. I care that the

810
00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:30,640
Speaker 1: guy did good work, that he challenged the regime on

811
00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:33,840
Speaker 1: areas that it mattered. And even if I didn't agree

812
00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:36,080
Speaker 1: with the word that he said and thought, even if

813
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:39,120
Speaker 1: I thought he was peddling Russian diast information, I wouldn't care,

814
00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:42,359
Speaker 1: because that's not what a free country is really all

815
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:44,160
Speaker 1: supposed to be about. So we live in a crazy

816
00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:46,279
Speaker 1: time right now. Yes, I don't know what else to say.

817
00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:50,319
Speaker 1: It truly is the definition of reactionary. I mean, that's

818
00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:54,600
Speaker 1: why we focus so much on this just like attack

819
00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:58,120
Speaker 1: on anything Russian, and you can see how some of

820
00:44:58,160 --> 00:45:01,840
Speaker 1: the darker chapters of America and history have unfolded, Like

821
00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:04,720
Speaker 1: you see it happening in real time, this dark impulse,

822
00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:07,440
Speaker 1: and how easy it is to whip people into a

823
00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:10,960
Speaker 1: sort of frenzy where they're happy to overlook this like

824
00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:16,239
Speaker 1: outright bigotry of anything Russian and a rature of you know,

825
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:20,960
Speaker 1: prominent courageous figures like Chris Hedges, Abby Martin and their

826
00:45:21,120 --> 00:45:24,279
Speaker 1: entire body of work. Just like that, the snap of

827
00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:28,560
Speaker 1: a finger is no explanation, no opportunity to sort of,

828
00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:31,080
Speaker 1: you know, change anything to make it right, just like that,

829
00:45:31,440 --> 00:45:36,560
Speaker 1: completely erased and gone. It really is absolutely extraordinary. And

830
00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:39,839
Speaker 1: I do think that the point here too is important

831
00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:43,279
Speaker 1: that there's a reason why they were on OURT. It's

832
00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:47,000
Speaker 1: not because they're like, yay Russian government, go Vladimir Putin.

833
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:51,080
Speaker 1: It's because they had already been disappeared from the American

834
00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:55,920
Speaker 1: traditional media mainstream. This was the only option that was left.

835
00:45:56,080 --> 00:46:00,480
Speaker 1: And now with this flimsiest of excuses, they're also put

836
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:03,680
Speaker 1: out of that sphere as well. So I think it

837
00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:08,080
Speaker 1: represents a very grim indictment of the status of our

838
00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:12,640
Speaker 1: own democracy, that this type of very authoritarian and very

839
00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:17,279
Speaker 1: sort of patronizing or patriarchal view of we have to

840
00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:19,520
Speaker 1: like nanny state what the people can see and what

841
00:46:19,560 --> 00:46:22,040
Speaker 1: they can hear and what information they're allowed to have

842
00:46:22,120 --> 00:46:24,600
Speaker 1: access to. You, I think it really is an indictment

843
00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:28,799
Speaker 1: of a lack of confidence and lack of grounding and

844
00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:31,959
Speaker 1: true democratic principles here and as Joe Biden is laying

845
00:46:31,960 --> 00:46:34,000
Speaker 1: out his whole like you know, this is the fight

846
00:46:34,040 --> 00:46:38,920
Speaker 1: of the democracies versus the authoritarians, we would do well

847
00:46:39,160 --> 00:46:41,920
Speaker 1: to turn our gaze inwards as well at the failings

848
00:46:41,960 --> 00:46:44,680
Speaker 1: of our own democratic institutions. I would offer up the

849
00:46:44,719 --> 00:46:47,480
Speaker 1: censorship of people like Chris Hedges and Abby Martin as

850
00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:52,200
Speaker 1: a case in point in that I wanted to break

851
00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:55,640
Speaker 1: down for you a blockbuster new Wall Street Journal report

852
00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:59,280
Speaker 1: seeming to indicate one more way that the stock market

853
00:46:59,440 --> 00:47:02,080
Speaker 1: may be and maybe gamed. Let's go ahead and throw

854
00:47:02,080 --> 00:47:04,440
Speaker 1: the taar sheet up on the screen. The headline here

855
00:47:04,480 --> 00:47:08,080
Speaker 1: says big stock sales are supposed to be secret. The

856
00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:11,600
Speaker 1: numbers indicate they are not. Share prices fall ahead of

857
00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:14,719
Speaker 1: fifty eight percent of large sales. A Wall Street analysis

858
00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:17,400
Speaker 1: journal analysis fines, and let me just read from you

859
00:47:17,600 --> 00:47:20,719
Speaker 1: to you the beginning of this piece. They say, for years,

860
00:47:20,719 --> 00:47:23,120
Speaker 1: something strange kept happening on Wall Street. Before a big

861
00:47:23,160 --> 00:47:26,040
Speaker 1: shareholder could carry out plans to sell a slug of stock,

862
00:47:26,200 --> 00:47:29,960
Speaker 1: the price dropped. It was as if other investors knew

863
00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:33,200
Speaker 1: what was coming. These transactions, known as block trades, are

864
00:47:33,239 --> 00:47:36,520
Speaker 1: supposed to be a secret between the selling shareholders and

865
00:47:36,600 --> 00:47:39,719
Speaker 1: the investment banks they hire to execute the trades, but

866
00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:42,239
Speaker 1: a Wall Street Journal analysis of nearly four hundred such

867
00:47:42,280 --> 00:47:46,160
Speaker 1: trades over three years indicates that information about the sales

868
00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:50,319
Speaker 1: routinely leaks out ahead of time, a potentially illegal practice

869
00:47:50,520 --> 00:47:53,520
Speaker 1: that cost those sellers millions of dollars and benefits banks

870
00:47:53,520 --> 00:47:57,000
Speaker 1: and their hedge fund clients. So basically, the allegation here

871
00:47:57,120 --> 00:47:59,680
Speaker 1: is that when you have a large holder of these

872
00:47:59,680 --> 00:48:02,839
Speaker 1: shares and they're about to get rid of them, they

873
00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:05,839
Speaker 1: contract with investment banks to execute those trades, which are

874
00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:08,680
Speaker 1: called block trades. Now, it's supposed to be a secret,

875
00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:12,640
Speaker 1: because obviously, if you know that this big trade is coming,

876
00:48:12,960 --> 00:48:15,040
Speaker 1: then you confront run it and get ahead of it,

877
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:18,160
Speaker 1: and you can sell off before they have an opportunity

878
00:48:18,200 --> 00:48:20,759
Speaker 1: to and lock in a higher price. By doing that,

879
00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:22,600
Speaker 1: you're of course driving the price down and making it

880
00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:25,239
Speaker 1: so that their position is worse off by the time

881
00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:28,439
Speaker 1: that these trades actually execute. And so what the Wall

882
00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:32,200
Speaker 1: Street Journal found is sort of by an indirect analysis,

883
00:48:32,239 --> 00:48:35,720
Speaker 1: they saw that routinely, in fifty eight percent of the trades,

884
00:48:35,840 --> 00:48:39,560
Speaker 1: the price would drop just before the trade hit. So

885
00:48:39,600 --> 00:48:42,960
Speaker 1: the insinuation here, which is being investigated, by the way,

886
00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:46,920
Speaker 1: by federal investigators, is that they are tipping off favored

887
00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:50,239
Speaker 1: clients to get ahead of the curve. And by the way,

888
00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:53,840
Speaker 1: oftentimes the people who are executing, who are involved in

889
00:48:53,880 --> 00:48:55,640
Speaker 1: these block trades, a lot of times these are we're

890
00:48:55,640 --> 00:48:57,799
Speaker 1: talking about pension funds, We're talking about, you know, the

891
00:48:57,880 --> 00:49:01,279
Speaker 1: retirement savings of teachers and firefighters, etc. But even if

892
00:49:01,320 --> 00:49:03,520
Speaker 1: it's you know, a Morner ferries As somebody that isn't

893
00:49:03,520 --> 00:49:07,120
Speaker 1: so sympathetic, this is just straight up cheating. Yeah. And

894
00:49:07,160 --> 00:49:09,319
Speaker 1: so what they point to on this investigation is on

895
00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:13,319
Speaker 1: Morgan Stanley, the big bank which dominates block trading. The

896
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:17,800
Speaker 1: firm disclosed in February. It has been responding to information

897
00:49:17,880 --> 00:49:20,319
Speaker 1: requests from the Department of Justice since this summer, and

898
00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:24,360
Speaker 1: in November had to put one of its senior executives

899
00:49:24,400 --> 00:49:28,800
Speaker 1: in charge of block trading on leave, so they refuse

900
00:49:28,880 --> 00:49:31,560
Speaker 1: to say why it was put on leave. But thej

901
00:49:31,719 --> 00:49:34,040
Speaker 1: is investigating, and now the guy is no longer there.

902
00:49:34,239 --> 00:49:37,600
Speaker 1: Goldman Sachs has already been probed, and the Journal's analysis

903
00:49:37,640 --> 00:49:41,280
Speaker 1: found that when Morgan Stanley executed a block trade by itself,

904
00:49:41,520 --> 00:49:44,959
Speaker 1: the median stock would trail its peers byzero point seven

905
00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:48,080
Speaker 1: percentage points in the trading session leading up to the deal,

906
00:49:48,400 --> 00:49:52,160
Speaker 1: meaning half performed worse than that. That was the worst

907
00:49:52,239 --> 00:49:54,840
Speaker 1: record of any of the big banks that are major

908
00:49:54,880 --> 00:49:58,200
Speaker 1: players in block trading. The median for Credit sweezz point

909
00:49:58,200 --> 00:50:01,839
Speaker 1: four and the median for Goldman in Barclays roughly match

910
00:50:01,920 --> 00:50:06,000
Speaker 1: the market, but across all banks it still logs lags

911
00:50:06,080 --> 00:50:09,080
Speaker 1: by point two percent. So if you put that all together,

912
00:50:09,320 --> 00:50:12,080
Speaker 1: it's very clear that something is happening. And look, I'm

913
00:50:12,120 --> 00:50:15,200
Speaker 1: just a guy from the outside who reads but the

914
00:50:15,440 --> 00:50:18,040
Speaker 1: very basics of a Wall Street movie or any of

915
00:50:18,080 --> 00:50:21,360
Speaker 1: these other fictions, which are obviously based within some deeper truths,

916
00:50:21,680 --> 00:50:24,279
Speaker 1: is when you have access to inside information, if you

917
00:50:24,280 --> 00:50:26,600
Speaker 1: could trade on that inside information, it's worth a whole

918
00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:29,120
Speaker 1: lot of money. One of the best books I've ever

919
00:50:29,160 --> 00:50:31,560
Speaker 1: read is Den of Thieves by I think is James

920
00:50:31,640 --> 00:50:35,319
Speaker 1: Stewart about the nineteen eighties Michael Milkin, inside trading and

921
00:50:35,320 --> 00:50:38,520
Speaker 1: all that, and this stuff was truly crazy. They'd be like, oh,

922
00:50:38,560 --> 00:50:40,279
Speaker 1: I heard so and so is about to do this,

923
00:50:40,520 --> 00:50:44,160
Speaker 1: that these guys called ARBs who would arbitrage on different

924
00:50:44,160 --> 00:50:47,040
Speaker 1: trades and would trade on inside information. They're making millions

925
00:50:47,040 --> 00:50:49,480
Speaker 1: of dollars, you know, guys who were in the investment

926
00:50:49,480 --> 00:50:52,480
Speaker 1: banking side giving tip offs to the cell side of

927
00:50:52,719 --> 00:50:57,040
Speaker 1: what exactly was happening. Sorry, research side and sell side. Truly, Look,

928
00:50:57,160 --> 00:50:59,440
Speaker 1: a lot has obviously changed in nineteen eighty seven, but

929
00:50:59,480 --> 00:51:02,120
Speaker 1: I think that the baked into the culture of Wall Street.

930
00:51:02,200 --> 00:51:05,080
Speaker 1: I mean, that's something that is obviously happening. I mean,

931
00:51:05,080 --> 00:51:07,799
Speaker 1: it's obviously happening. The only question is how. Yeah. I

932
00:51:07,800 --> 00:51:10,759
Speaker 1: mean you've seen this so many times. We saw during

933
00:51:10,760 --> 00:51:13,520
Speaker 1: the financial crash when it was revealed, you know, they

934
00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:17,080
Speaker 1: were selling to their clients. They're like more retail clients,

935
00:51:17,360 --> 00:51:20,239
Speaker 1: things that they knew that internally they were describing as

936
00:51:20,320 --> 00:51:23,239
Speaker 1: total shit. It should be a crime, should absolutely be

937
00:51:23,320 --> 00:51:25,480
Speaker 1: a crime. I mean there were many should have been

938
00:51:25,520 --> 00:51:28,520
Speaker 1: crimes that were committed during that era, you also saw it.

939
00:51:28,560 --> 00:51:30,279
Speaker 1: I mean, this was you know, one of the revelations

940
00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:32,839
Speaker 1: from GameStop, which we just talked to the filmmaker of

941
00:51:33,400 --> 00:51:35,319
Speaker 1: what was the name of the film, Oh, Gaming Wall

942
00:51:35,920 --> 00:51:39,520
Speaker 1: Street about how all of this went down. Where you know,

943
00:51:39,719 --> 00:51:42,439
Speaker 1: retail investors are buying shares of game Stop, the price

944
00:51:42,480 --> 00:51:44,360
Speaker 1: is going up and up and up. They're using the

945
00:51:44,440 --> 00:51:47,920
Speaker 1: robin Hood trading platform, thinking that this is just a

946
00:51:47,960 --> 00:51:51,120
Speaker 1: neutral kind of a thing, and then you know, when

947
00:51:51,280 --> 00:51:54,000
Speaker 1: it comes to their applying pressure to these bigger players

948
00:51:54,000 --> 00:51:56,359
Speaker 1: on Wall Street low and Behold, their ability to buy

949
00:51:56,360 --> 00:51:58,440
Speaker 1: more stocks get shut down. They're still able to sell though,

950
00:51:58,480 --> 00:52:00,560
Speaker 1: and it totally takes the thing. I mean, it's just

951
00:52:00,640 --> 00:52:03,640
Speaker 1: one more instance where you see the way through either

952
00:52:03,800 --> 00:52:06,200
Speaker 1: the rules that exist. They're allowed to cheat and they're

953
00:52:06,280 --> 00:52:08,400
Speaker 1: sort of allowed to rink the market, but this is

954
00:52:08,520 --> 00:52:11,040
Speaker 1: just even they'll go beyond that and just blatantly cheap.

955
00:52:11,320 --> 00:52:14,160
Speaker 1: It also reminds me of the reporting that we've covered

956
00:52:14,160 --> 00:52:18,600
Speaker 1: here from Unusual Whales and others about congressional insider trading,

957
00:52:18,920 --> 00:52:23,560
Speaker 1: because it's very hard to prove that Polosi or on

958
00:52:23,600 --> 00:52:27,080
Speaker 1: an individual basis, anyone on an individual basis like had

959
00:52:27,160 --> 00:52:30,239
Speaker 1: this information and it caused them directly to acquire or

960
00:52:30,280 --> 00:52:33,399
Speaker 1: sell or whatever. This particular stuck. But when you look

961
00:52:33,400 --> 00:52:36,600
Speaker 1: at the metrics overall and you see that these people

962
00:52:36,680 --> 00:52:40,040
Speaker 1: are all beating the market, you go, Okay, there's something

963
00:52:40,080 --> 00:52:42,960
Speaker 1: going on here. And that's basically what this analysis reveals

964
00:52:43,040 --> 00:52:46,120
Speaker 1: is that if time and time again before these block trades,

965
00:52:46,160 --> 00:52:48,560
Speaker 1: in advance of these block trades, you see the stock

966
00:52:48,640 --> 00:52:52,040
Speaker 1: price dropping, something is clearly going on here, and so

967
00:52:52,440 --> 00:52:54,600
Speaker 1: we should continue to follow it because it is heartening

968
00:52:54,600 --> 00:52:57,600
Speaker 1: that federal investigators are actually looking into it for once. Yeah,

969
00:52:57,640 --> 00:53:00,680
Speaker 1: this is good news. Look in the way always works.

970
00:53:00,800 --> 00:53:03,239
Speaker 1: Some guy pays a fine, never actually goes to jail,

971
00:53:03,320 --> 00:53:05,560
Speaker 1: but and it's not even close to like what they

972
00:53:05,640 --> 00:53:07,560
Speaker 1: made off of doing that, right, Yeah, they'll pay a

973
00:53:07,600 --> 00:53:09,760
Speaker 1: tiny little fine which is two point h two percent

974
00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:11,759
Speaker 1: of like the millions of dollars that they read. But

975
00:53:12,800 --> 00:53:15,400
Speaker 1: justice is still justice. We should see it. It's just

976
00:53:15,440 --> 00:53:18,359
Speaker 1: another little window into how the markets are rigged. Indeed, hey, guys,

977
00:53:18,440 --> 00:53:20,800
Speaker 1: Kyle Kolinski is letting us post some of the clips

978
00:53:20,800 --> 00:53:23,760
Speaker 1: from his channel that we think you guys will really

979
00:53:23,840 --> 00:53:26,839
Speaker 1: love in the Breaking Points community on our channel. YEP

980
00:53:26,960 --> 00:53:30,200
Speaker 1: let's get to it. So Chris Wallace recently left Fox News,

981
00:53:30,320 --> 00:53:33,000
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna read you how he is torching the

982
00:53:33,040 --> 00:53:35,320
Speaker 1: network now on the way out the door. So Chris

983
00:53:35,320 --> 00:53:39,120
Speaker 1: Wallace was one example of a guy who they put

984
00:53:39,160 --> 00:53:43,080
Speaker 1: out there to maintain some degree or credibility. He is

985
00:53:43,160 --> 00:53:45,879
Speaker 1: one of the least partisan of the people on air,

986
00:53:45,880 --> 00:53:49,880
Speaker 1: even though he still is partisan, he's still conservative, but

987
00:53:50,600 --> 00:53:52,480
Speaker 1: he was put out there as like a counterpoint to

988
00:53:52,480 --> 00:53:55,759
Speaker 1: the Sean Hannity types, and he's there for a long time.

989
00:53:55,800 --> 00:53:57,360
Speaker 1: He always defended the network. He always thought they were

990
00:53:57,400 --> 00:53:58,880
Speaker 1: doing a good job. He would always say, I remember

991
00:53:58,920 --> 00:54:00,560
Speaker 1: a debate he had with John to at one time

992
00:54:00,560 --> 00:54:02,640
Speaker 1: where he always said, look, we provide the counter narrative.

993
00:54:02,680 --> 00:54:05,839
Speaker 1: We provide the counterbalance to the biased mainstream media. They're

994
00:54:05,840 --> 00:54:08,520
Speaker 1: so liberal, and we're providing the other perspective, the conservative perspective,

995
00:54:08,680 --> 00:54:11,080
Speaker 1: and we're quote unquote fair and balanced. He seemed to

996
00:54:11,080 --> 00:54:13,720
Speaker 1: really buy that propaganda, believe that notion, even though it's absurd.

997
00:54:13,719 --> 00:54:17,359
Speaker 1: Fox News has always been a cesspool. But now since

998
00:54:17,360 --> 00:54:19,520
Speaker 1: he's out the door and he's launching a show I

999
00:54:19,560 --> 00:54:22,280
Speaker 1: think on CNN Plus, which is CNN streaming thing, which

1000
00:54:22,320 --> 00:54:23,840
Speaker 1: I Think launches this week, and it's going to be

1001
00:54:23,840 --> 00:54:26,319
Speaker 1: an abysmal disaster. I'm so sad that the numbers aren't

1002
00:54:26,320 --> 00:54:28,000
Speaker 1: going to be released. The numbers are only internal because

1003
00:54:28,040 --> 00:54:30,400
Speaker 1: the actual numbers are going to be pathetic. Well, I'm

1004
00:54:30,440 --> 00:54:32,120
Speaker 1: afraid they'll find a way to rig the system and

1005
00:54:32,160 --> 00:54:35,239
Speaker 1: somehow end up beating other streaming services. So just we'll

1006
00:54:35,239 --> 00:54:37,200
Speaker 1: wait and see what happens on that front. But look

1007
00:54:37,200 --> 00:54:38,840
Speaker 1: at what he says about Fox News. So this is

1008
00:54:38,840 --> 00:54:41,760
Speaker 1: in Media eight. Chris Wallace says working at Fox News

1009
00:54:41,760 --> 00:54:45,120
Speaker 1: was quote unsustainable after twenty twenty election, I quote no

1010
00:54:45,160 --> 00:54:51,040
Speaker 1: longer felt comfortable with Fox News programming. Wow, okay, so

1011
00:54:51,160 --> 00:54:53,040
Speaker 1: let me read you a little bit here. Wallace gave

1012
00:54:53,040 --> 00:54:54,640
Speaker 1: an interview to The New York Times to promote his

1013
00:54:54,719 --> 00:54:58,480
Speaker 1: nightly interview program Who's Talking to Chris Wallace, which launches Tuesday.

1014
00:54:58,520 --> 00:55:02,760
Speaker 1: Reflecting on his decision to leave Fox last year, Wallace explained,

1015
00:55:02,840 --> 00:55:04,920
Speaker 1: I just no longer felt comfortable with the programming at

1016
00:55:04,960 --> 00:55:08,480
Speaker 1: the network. I'm fine with opinion, conservative opinion, liberal opinion,

1017
00:55:08,480 --> 00:55:10,920
Speaker 1: he continued, but when people start to question the truth.

1018
00:55:11,000 --> 00:55:13,680
Speaker 1: Who won the twenty twenty election with January sixth and insurrection?

1019
00:55:13,920 --> 00:55:16,080
Speaker 1: I found that unsustainable. I spent a lot of twenty

1020
00:55:16,120 --> 00:55:17,680
Speaker 1: twenty one looking to see if there was a different

1021
00:55:17,680 --> 00:55:20,040
Speaker 1: place for me to do my job. Walls described the

1022
00:55:20,160 --> 00:55:23,080
Speaker 1: changes he observed in Fox News following the twenty twenty election.

1023
00:55:23,239 --> 00:55:27,120
Speaker 1: He's also he also confirmed reports from several months ago

1024
00:55:27,400 --> 00:55:29,840
Speaker 1: that he complained to Fox News leadership about the conspiracy

1025
00:55:29,880 --> 00:55:31,920
Speaker 1: theories Tucker Carlson was spreading about the storming of the

1026
00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:35,600
Speaker 1: US capital. Quote before I found it was an environment

1027
00:55:35,640 --> 00:55:37,279
Speaker 1: in which I could do my job and feel good

1028
00:55:37,280 --> 00:55:39,919
Speaker 1: about my involvement at Fox, Wallace said about his time

1029
00:55:39,960 --> 00:55:42,840
Speaker 1: with Fox, and since November of twenty twenty, that just

1030
00:55:42,920 --> 00:55:48,879
Speaker 1: became unsustainable, increasingly unsustainable as time went on. So look,

1031
00:55:48,920 --> 00:55:50,400
Speaker 1: I'm sure there are gonna be a lot of you know,

1032
00:55:50,480 --> 00:55:52,719
Speaker 1: democratic minded people and liberals who look at this and

1033
00:55:52,719 --> 00:55:54,600
Speaker 1: they applaud it, and they say, kind of took a

1034
00:55:54,600 --> 00:55:56,640
Speaker 1: moral stand here, he said, the January sixth stuff goes

1035
00:55:56,680 --> 00:55:59,239
Speaker 1: too far. I'm out, I can't do it anymore. And

1036
00:55:59,280 --> 00:56:00,680
Speaker 1: on the one hand, I'm in trying to agree with

1037
00:56:00,719 --> 00:56:02,800
Speaker 1: that to a certain extent, because he says this crosses

1038
00:56:02,840 --> 00:56:04,759
Speaker 1: a line, and I was leaning with my line, et cetera,

1039
00:56:04,800 --> 00:56:06,960
Speaker 1: et cetera. But on the other hand, and this is

1040
00:56:07,000 --> 00:56:11,640
Speaker 1: the thought that dominates my mind more, this misguided at

1041
00:56:11,680 --> 00:56:18,040
Speaker 1: best notion that well before Fox News was good. That's

1042
00:56:18,160 --> 00:56:21,560
Speaker 1: to me, that is the most preposterous implication here, because

1043
00:56:21,960 --> 00:56:26,520
Speaker 1: they've always been horrendous. When Chris Wallace was there. Remember

1044
00:56:26,520 --> 00:56:31,400
Speaker 1: when Sean Hannity attacked Obama for eating a burger with

1045
00:56:31,520 --> 00:56:34,440
Speaker 1: mustard on it. He had a segment on that. Remember

1046
00:56:34,440 --> 00:56:37,719
Speaker 1: when they said Barack Obama did a quote terrorist fist

1047
00:56:37,800 --> 00:56:41,279
Speaker 1: jab with Michelle Obama. They said that on Fox News.

1048
00:56:42,040 --> 00:56:45,160
Speaker 1: How many times over and over did they lie about

1049
00:56:45,160 --> 00:56:47,400
Speaker 1: the nature of what was going on in DC between

1050
00:56:47,400 --> 00:56:51,839
Speaker 1: Democrats and Republicans, where Democrats would concede and give more

1051
00:56:52,080 --> 00:56:55,000
Speaker 1: and more and more to Republicans and Republicans would still

1052
00:56:55,000 --> 00:56:58,840
Speaker 1: be obstructionist during the Obama era, and they would go

1053
00:56:58,880 --> 00:57:01,239
Speaker 1: out there on Fox News and ten like it's the

1054
00:57:01,320 --> 00:57:05,640
Speaker 1: Democrats who are unreasonable and not bipartisan and not willing

1055
00:57:05,680 --> 00:57:08,759
Speaker 1: to compromise and are extremists, when obviously it was the

1056
00:57:08,800 --> 00:57:11,120
Speaker 1: Republicans who were being extremist. I mean, for Christ's sake,

1057
00:57:11,160 --> 00:57:13,640
Speaker 1: Democrats had a super majority and they passed a Republican

1058
00:57:13,719 --> 00:57:17,640
Speaker 1: health care plan that's what Obamacare was, an individual mandate system.

1059
00:57:17,680 --> 00:57:20,040
Speaker 1: It's like Romney careen Massachusetts. It's an idea that was

1060
00:57:20,080 --> 00:57:22,000
Speaker 1: birth that at the Heritage Foundation, which is a right

1061
00:57:22,040 --> 00:57:24,520
Speaker 1: wing thing tank. You would have no idea. You would

1062
00:57:24,560 --> 00:57:26,640
Speaker 1: have thought it was like Chae Guavara was coming over

1063
00:57:26,720 --> 00:57:29,439
Speaker 1: to take over our healthcare and nationalize the entire thing.

1064
00:57:30,120 --> 00:57:32,240
Speaker 1: That's how they acted on Fox News. And they would

1065
00:57:32,240 --> 00:57:34,360
Speaker 1: say the things about like, you know, they're gonna kill

1066
00:57:34,400 --> 00:57:36,400
Speaker 1: your grandma and stuff like that. This is what they

1067
00:57:36,440 --> 00:57:39,720
Speaker 1: were saying when Chris Wallace was there, and Chris Wallace

1068
00:57:39,880 --> 00:57:43,320
Speaker 1: had no objection whatsoever to any of that. Fox News

1069
00:57:43,320 --> 00:57:44,800
Speaker 1: is the network now. I don't know if Chris Wallace

1070
00:57:44,840 --> 00:57:46,959
Speaker 1: was there all the way back then, but Fox News

1071
00:57:47,000 --> 00:57:50,000
Speaker 1: was the network that wrongly called the two thousand election

1072
00:57:50,320 --> 00:57:52,480
Speaker 1: for George W. Bush before we knew it, and then

1073
00:57:52,480 --> 00:57:54,280
Speaker 1: every other network followed to and ran with it, and

1074
00:57:54,320 --> 00:57:56,439
Speaker 1: that very well could have impacted the outcome because after

1075
00:57:56,480 --> 00:57:58,960
Speaker 1: the full recount of Florida, we found Al Gore actually

1076
00:57:58,960 --> 00:58:03,280
Speaker 1: won it. So they have been biased every single step

1077
00:58:03,280 --> 00:58:07,920
Speaker 1: of the way. They have been rigidly, ruthlessly viciously partisan

1078
00:58:08,000 --> 00:58:10,520
Speaker 1: every single step of the way, and Chris Wallace was like, well,

1079
00:58:10,520 --> 00:58:11,920
Speaker 1: they were a great network and they were fair and

1080
00:58:11,920 --> 00:58:15,080
Speaker 1: bounce until the January sixth stuff. Now does the January

1081
00:58:15,080 --> 00:58:17,280
Speaker 1: six stuff cross the line? Of course it does, of

1082
00:58:17,320 --> 00:58:20,280
Speaker 1: course it does. The idea that like, you know, hey,

1083
00:58:20,280 --> 00:58:22,160
Speaker 1: maybe it's okay that they stormed the Capitol and there

1084
00:58:22,200 --> 00:58:23,760
Speaker 1: was a ride and windows were broken and there were

1085
00:58:23,800 --> 00:58:25,600
Speaker 1: threats and there was an attempt by a group of

1086
00:58:25,640 --> 00:58:28,040
Speaker 1: losers to try to overthrow the government. Maybe it's okay

1087
00:58:28,040 --> 00:58:30,000
Speaker 1: the Trump gave a speech saying let's go to the Capitol,

1088
00:58:30,040 --> 00:58:33,240
Speaker 1: and maybe that's all No no no no no no

1089
00:58:33,240 --> 00:58:35,200
Speaker 1: no no. That stuff is all wrong and bad and

1090
00:58:35,200 --> 00:58:38,000
Speaker 1: crosses the line. But so did the other stuff. And

1091
00:58:38,440 --> 00:58:40,040
Speaker 1: you know, that's the thing that annoys me the most

1092
00:58:40,080 --> 00:58:46,720
Speaker 1: that I feel like the moral meter of DC journalists

1093
00:58:46,760 --> 00:58:49,640
Speaker 1: always misfires, Like they never get their outrage, they never

1094
00:58:49,720 --> 00:58:54,240
Speaker 1: calibrate their outrage properly. Like they're not outraged about thirty

1095
00:58:54,280 --> 00:58:57,320
Speaker 1: million people not having health care, about eighty percent of

1096
00:58:57,320 --> 00:59:00,200
Speaker 1: the country living paycheck to paycheck, forty five people, forty

1097
00:59:00,200 --> 00:59:02,080
Speaker 1: five thousand people dying every year because they don't have

1098
00:59:02,120 --> 00:59:03,840
Speaker 1: health care. They're not outraged about all us. They're not

1099
00:59:03,840 --> 00:59:06,720
Speaker 1: outraged about the endless Wars. They're not outraged about the

1100
00:59:06,800 --> 00:59:08,960
Speaker 1: arming of the Azon Battalion, the Neo Nazis, or the

1101
00:59:09,040 --> 00:59:13,280
Speaker 1: arming of Jihatasinia. Then it's always like little things here

1102
00:59:13,280 --> 00:59:15,120
Speaker 1: and there that they say, well, that crosses a line,

1103
00:59:15,120 --> 00:59:17,360
Speaker 1: when there's eighty four things before it that cross the line,

1104
00:59:17,360 --> 00:59:19,200
Speaker 1: and they were sitting there cheering it on or actively

1105
00:59:19,240 --> 00:59:22,640
Speaker 1: promoting the lies. And so that's what frustrates me about

1106
00:59:22,640 --> 00:59:24,919
Speaker 1: this thing. And my guess is, of course Chris wall

1107
00:59:24,960 --> 00:59:26,880
Speaker 1: is gonna be fully rehabilitated. He's gonna be welcome with

1108
00:59:26,920 --> 00:59:30,080
Speaker 1: open arms into democratic aligned liberal media. And it's like

1109
00:59:30,840 --> 00:59:32,960
Speaker 1: the bar for them is so fucking low. All you

1110
00:59:32,960 --> 00:59:34,600
Speaker 1: have to do is say January sixth was bad and

1111
00:59:34,640 --> 00:59:37,960
Speaker 1: I don't like Trump, and they're like, yes, welcome. We

1112
00:59:38,040 --> 00:59:41,800
Speaker 1: know you love torture and illegal wars and a government

1113
00:59:41,840 --> 00:59:44,160
Speaker 1: that keeps people in poverty, but you're still okay with

1114
00:59:44,280 --> 00:59:48,240
Speaker 1: us because you cleared the lowest bar in human history. Now,

1115
00:59:48,320 --> 00:59:50,320
Speaker 1: to be fair, I don't know if if Chris Wallace

1116
00:59:50,320 --> 00:59:53,400
Speaker 1: supports torture or he probably guess sported illegal wars, but torture,

1117
00:59:53,480 --> 00:59:57,760
Speaker 1: I don't know, But point is he ain't a hero,

1118
00:59:58,360 --> 01:00:01,320
Speaker 1: and really what he's doing is is now launching a

1119
01:00:01,320 --> 01:00:04,240
Speaker 1: show on a streaming platform that will have roughly negative

1120
01:00:04,280 --> 01:00:08,640
Speaker 1: five viewers. I mean, again, this thing CNN plus, it's

1121
01:00:08,640 --> 01:00:10,960
Speaker 1: gonna crash and burn spectacularly. Now, they might find a

1122
01:00:10,960 --> 01:00:13,920
Speaker 1: way to rig the system and beef up their numbers

1123
01:00:13,960 --> 01:00:16,960
Speaker 1: through coercive means. That's certainly possible. That's certainly what the

1124
01:00:16,960 --> 01:00:22,640
Speaker 1: big networks did on YouTube with the algorithm. But in

1125
01:00:22,680 --> 01:00:25,080
Speaker 1: a fair fight they would get obliterated. I mean, what

1126
01:00:25,120 --> 01:00:27,520
Speaker 1: do you have a book club with Jake Tapper? A

1127
01:00:27,600 --> 01:00:33,640
Speaker 1: show on raising kids with Anderson Cooper like Casey Hunt?

1128
01:00:33,760 --> 01:00:37,000
Speaker 1: It has a show like she just has negative charisma,

1129
01:00:37,680 --> 01:00:40,800
Speaker 1: negative charisma And never mind, it's not like she doesn't

1130
01:00:40,800 --> 01:00:42,320
Speaker 1: have charisma, but she makes great points? Does you make

1131
01:00:42,360 --> 01:00:45,160
Speaker 1: great points? So the whole thing is just assess pool.

1132
01:00:45,160 --> 01:00:46,840
Speaker 1: It's just let's take all of our shitty programming that

1133
01:00:46,920 --> 01:00:48,680
Speaker 1: nobody likes on CNN and just now put it on

1134
01:00:49,080 --> 01:00:51,479
Speaker 1: the streaming platform that nobody will like or care about

1135
01:00:51,480 --> 01:00:53,480
Speaker 1: her buy, and then we won't release the numbers, and

1136
01:00:53,480 --> 01:00:54,800
Speaker 1: we'll find a way to rig it so that people

1137
01:00:55,080 --> 01:00:59,400
Speaker 1: end up watching it in a roundabout way. All right,

1138
01:01:00,160 --> 01:01:04,160
Speaker 1: congrats the King grats Chris wall almost called him George

1139
01:01:04,160 --> 01:01:09,440
Speaker 1: Wallace ingrats Chris Wallace for finally finding something that you

1140
01:01:09,440 --> 01:01:12,240
Speaker 1: had a moral objection to when there were like eighty

1141
01:01:12,320 --> 01:01:15,640
Speaker 1: thousand things beforehand that you let slide or actively partook

1142
01:01:16,600 --> 01:01:21,240
Speaker 1: in the negative stuff. Hey, guys, our friend Marsha Kossof,

1143
01:01:21,240 --> 01:01:24,040
Speaker 1: he's going to be conducting interviews with experts and newsmakers

1144
01:01:24,080 --> 01:01:26,600
Speaker 1: for us here on the Breaking Points channel. We're really excited. Yep.

1145
01:01:26,680 --> 01:01:29,560
Speaker 1: Here it is, Hey, Breaking Points Marshall. Here, We've got

1146
01:01:29,560 --> 01:01:31,840
Speaker 1: a great interview today. I'm speaking of Christopher Mims. He's

1147
01:01:31,840 --> 01:01:34,439
Speaker 1: did a technology calmness the Wall Street Journal. He's also

1148
01:01:34,520 --> 01:01:38,160
Speaker 1: authored Arriving Today from Factory to front Door, where everything

1149
01:01:38,200 --> 01:01:41,440
Speaker 1: has changed for how and what we buy? Sager and

1150
01:01:41,520 --> 01:01:43,640
Speaker 1: I did a really great interview with him a few

1151
01:01:43,640 --> 01:01:45,800
Speaker 1: months back to Definite check that out in the Relignment podcast.

1152
01:01:46,080 --> 01:01:48,320
Speaker 1: We're here to talk about a article you put out.

1153
01:01:48,400 --> 01:01:51,600
Speaker 1: Christopher's talking about supply chains. Now, we had all these

1154
01:01:51,640 --> 01:01:54,480
Speaker 1: transitions after the big shocks of the Trynity trade war,

1155
01:01:54,960 --> 01:01:58,080
Speaker 1: the COVID crisis, and now Russia sanctions. But let's just

1156
01:01:58,080 --> 01:02:01,560
Speaker 1: start really basically what our supply chains and why can

1157
01:02:01,640 --> 01:02:05,800
Speaker 1: we not stop talking about them. So supply chain, you know,

1158
01:02:05,840 --> 01:02:09,880
Speaker 1: the term originated in the military because it was just

1159
01:02:09,920 --> 01:02:13,000
Speaker 1: how you kept an army supplied. Of course, in our

1160
01:02:13,320 --> 01:02:16,960
Speaker 1: globalized economy, supply chains are how we get everything that

1161
01:02:17,000 --> 01:02:19,920
Speaker 1: we buy, everything we consume. Right, some supply chains are

1162
01:02:20,000 --> 01:02:23,160
Speaker 1: very short. You know, maybe you buy some carrots at

1163
01:02:23,160 --> 01:02:26,120
Speaker 1: the farmer's market and came from ten miles away. Most

1164
01:02:26,160 --> 01:02:29,320
Speaker 1: supply chains, especially for finished goods, are extremely long. So

1165
01:02:29,400 --> 01:02:32,600
Speaker 1: if you're buying you know, any gadget, you know, anything

1166
01:02:32,640 --> 01:02:35,160
Speaker 1: at a dollar store. Ninety percent of what you can

1167
01:02:35,200 --> 01:02:37,760
Speaker 1: get at a Walmart. Those things are made, you know,

1168
01:02:37,800 --> 01:02:43,560
Speaker 1: in Asia, possibly Mexico, but generally they are crossing an

1169
01:02:43,560 --> 01:02:45,960
Speaker 1: ocean in order to get to you. You know, it's

1170
01:02:46,000 --> 01:02:48,560
Speaker 1: a journey that's tens of thousands of miles long just

1171
01:02:48,560 --> 01:02:51,080
Speaker 1: for the finished product. And if you add up all

1172
01:02:51,080 --> 01:02:53,200
Speaker 1: the other miles of all the components that go into

1173
01:02:53,200 --> 01:02:55,520
Speaker 1: that product. Let's say it's a complicated one like a smartphone.

1174
01:02:56,000 --> 01:02:57,960
Speaker 1: You know, that's a supply chain that can be many

1175
01:02:58,040 --> 01:03:00,800
Speaker 1: tens of thousands of miles long. There's tons of single

1176
01:03:00,840 --> 01:03:04,480
Speaker 1: points of failure because manufacturing has been so concentrated over

1177
01:03:04,520 --> 01:03:06,720
Speaker 1: the years and So what happens is, you know, if

1178
01:03:06,720 --> 01:03:09,400
Speaker 1: there's a pandemic or anything else, you know, it can

1179
01:03:09,440 --> 01:03:14,280
Speaker 1: take out the entirety of production for advanced microchips, let's say.

1180
01:03:14,600 --> 01:03:16,880
Speaker 1: And then before you know it, that trickles down to

1181
01:03:18,240 --> 01:03:20,920
Speaker 1: the fact that now it's impossible to buy a car,

1182
01:03:21,040 --> 01:03:22,760
Speaker 1: or you can buy a car, but you're gonna pay

1183
01:03:22,800 --> 01:03:26,520
Speaker 1: whatever the dealer says you're gonna pay. And what's actually

1184
01:03:26,520 --> 01:03:28,360
Speaker 1: going to those So how are the ways other than

1185
01:03:28,400 --> 01:03:31,320
Speaker 1: just the cars that we're feeling this process when we

1186
01:03:31,360 --> 01:03:35,720
Speaker 1: break down after these three big events. You know, the

1187
01:03:35,760 --> 01:03:38,520
Speaker 1: big one these days, I think is inflation. Honestly, you know,

1188
01:03:38,600 --> 01:03:40,800
Speaker 1: prices are going up because goods are harder to get.

1189
01:03:41,720 --> 01:03:43,680
Speaker 1: But there are a lot of funny things that have

1190
01:03:43,760 --> 01:03:47,960
Speaker 1: happened along the way. A lot of retailers ordered a

1191
01:03:48,000 --> 01:03:50,840
Speaker 1: lot of products that arrived late this year after the

1192
01:03:50,920 --> 01:03:56,040
Speaker 1: Christmas season, so there's tons of discount retailers. They're having

1193
01:03:56,080 --> 01:03:58,919
Speaker 1: a bonanza right now because they're selling all these goods

1194
01:03:59,000 --> 01:04:01,120
Speaker 1: that are right late. You know, the shipping containers were

1195
01:04:01,640 --> 01:04:05,600
Speaker 1: stuck coming into America's ports and now they're hitting the beaches,

1196
01:04:05,640 --> 01:04:08,400
Speaker 1: so to speak. There's just tons and tons of idiosyncratic

1197
01:04:08,480 --> 01:04:11,160
Speaker 1: impacts like that. You know, not too long ago, lumber

1198
01:04:11,200 --> 01:04:13,680
Speaker 1: prices shot up because there were big forest fires in

1199
01:04:13,720 --> 01:04:17,360
Speaker 1: British Columbia. But also you know, mudslides took out the

1200
01:04:17,480 --> 01:04:21,200
Speaker 1: highways for you know, trucks to move that lumber out

1201
01:04:21,240 --> 01:04:24,200
Speaker 1: of Canada. So it just feels like, you know, every

1202
01:04:24,240 --> 01:04:28,520
Speaker 1: week something happens, whether it's a natural disaster or you know,

1203
01:04:28,560 --> 01:04:32,760
Speaker 1: now the COVID lockdowns in China, or you know, sanctions

1204
01:04:32,800 --> 01:04:35,040
Speaker 1: against Russia which are going to take out all kinds

1205
01:04:35,040 --> 01:04:38,280
Speaker 1: of things which we're going to feel later on that

1206
01:04:38,320 --> 01:04:41,440
Speaker 1: causes you know, one shortage or another, whether it's wood

1207
01:04:41,600 --> 01:04:47,439
Speaker 1: or microchips or you know, paint or anything else. Let's

1208
01:04:47,480 --> 01:04:52,600
Speaker 1: just ask the big question is globalization over? Globalization is

1209
01:04:52,600 --> 01:04:55,439
Speaker 1: definitely not over, but I think it's the great question

1210
01:04:55,480 --> 01:05:00,320
Speaker 1: to ask. I think the question everybody who is supply

1211
01:05:00,360 --> 01:05:03,440
Speaker 1: chain professionals trying to answer is how do we continue

1212
01:05:03,520 --> 01:05:06,840
Speaker 1: to leverage what's good about globalization, which is that you know,

1213
01:05:07,400 --> 01:05:10,240
Speaker 1: when different regions of the world specialize in certain things,

1214
01:05:10,240 --> 01:05:13,680
Speaker 1: it can lead to rapid innovation. Right. I mean TSMC,

1215
01:05:13,800 --> 01:05:16,960
Speaker 1: which is the big micro chip manufacturer in Taiwan. You know,

1216
01:05:17,560 --> 01:05:19,919
Speaker 1: they hold the title. They are at the cutting edge,

1217
01:05:20,040 --> 01:05:22,240
Speaker 1: you know, ahead of Samsung and Intel and everybody else

1218
01:05:22,760 --> 01:05:26,160
Speaker 1: because they have concentrated that manufacturing on this one tiny island,

1219
01:05:26,560 --> 01:05:29,320
Speaker 1: you know, just one hundred miles off the coast of China.

1220
01:05:31,120 --> 01:05:32,880
Speaker 1: What a lot of folks are trying to do now

1221
01:05:33,120 --> 01:05:36,280
Speaker 1: is figure out can I source goods from a geopolitical

1222
01:05:36,360 --> 01:05:39,400
Speaker 1: ally for example, because I think Russia right now is

1223
01:05:39,440 --> 01:05:42,480
Speaker 1: an object lesson and what happens when all of your

1224
01:05:42,600 --> 01:05:45,800
Speaker 1: supply lines get cut? You can't be a modern economy

1225
01:05:45,920 --> 01:05:48,720
Speaker 1: and source everything within your own borders, even when you

1226
01:05:49,200 --> 01:05:52,120
Speaker 1: have you know, thirteen time zones in your border and

1227
01:05:52,160 --> 01:05:54,200
Speaker 1: one hundred and forty million people. It just can't be done.

1228
01:05:55,360 --> 01:05:58,000
Speaker 1: And the key thing here is you really put on

1229
01:05:58,040 --> 01:05:59,800
Speaker 1: the article and the soon I think we'll resonate with

1230
01:06:00,000 --> 01:06:04,760
Speaker 1: making points viewers. This idea that even companies are questioning,

1231
01:06:04,800 --> 01:06:07,880
Speaker 1: these orthodoxies that define how they approach things. So can

1232
01:06:07,880 --> 01:06:09,360
Speaker 1: you actually explain what you mean by that? And like,

1233
01:06:09,400 --> 01:06:12,240
Speaker 1: what are the examples of ideas that really shape this

1234
01:06:12,360 --> 01:06:15,720
Speaker 1: process that companies are now jettisoning. Yeah, So for the

1235
01:06:15,800 --> 01:06:17,480
Speaker 1: last fifty years, what companies have been trying to do

1236
01:06:17,680 --> 01:06:21,240
Speaker 1: is how do we just squeeze all the cost out

1237
01:06:21,280 --> 01:06:23,320
Speaker 1: of our supply chain that we possibly can, and so,

1238
01:06:23,560 --> 01:06:28,240
Speaker 1: you know, let's consolidate to one big factory wherever wages

1239
01:06:28,280 --> 01:06:31,040
Speaker 1: are lowest or where that industry is concentrated, so usually

1240
01:06:31,040 --> 01:06:34,200
Speaker 1: somewhere in Asia, you know, whether you're making gadgets or

1241
01:06:34,680 --> 01:06:38,720
Speaker 1: making apparel, you know, if you're Nike. Let's say also,

1242
01:06:38,840 --> 01:06:40,960
Speaker 1: you know, don't carry any extra inventory, you know, just

1243
01:06:41,000 --> 01:06:43,680
Speaker 1: in time manufacturing. The definition of that is you don't

1244
01:06:43,720 --> 01:06:45,960
Speaker 1: have any spare parts on hand. You're not carrying any

1245
01:06:46,000 --> 01:06:48,520
Speaker 1: extra inventory for a month from now. You're just making

1246
01:06:48,960 --> 01:06:51,120
Speaker 1: and you're selling things as soon as you make them,

1247
01:06:51,360 --> 01:06:54,080
Speaker 1: and you're buying parts only, you know, a week before

1248
01:06:54,120 --> 01:06:59,960
Speaker 1: you need them. So those orthodoxies have made supply chains efficient,

1249
01:07:00,160 --> 01:07:03,840
Speaker 1: but not robust and not resilient. So what companies are

1250
01:07:03,840 --> 01:07:07,240
Speaker 1: saying now is, let's say your car company, how do

1251
01:07:07,320 --> 01:07:12,640
Speaker 1: I make sure that my suppliers have enough money so

1252
01:07:12,680 --> 01:07:16,600
Speaker 1: that they continue to invest in getting me enough parts

1253
01:07:16,680 --> 01:07:19,200
Speaker 1: when I need them. How do I make sure that

1254
01:07:19,280 --> 01:07:22,360
Speaker 1: I have multiple factories in multiple parts of the world,

1255
01:07:22,720 --> 01:07:25,760
Speaker 1: even though it is extraordinarily difficult to make Factory A

1256
01:07:26,600 --> 01:07:29,280
Speaker 1: in Asia and Factory B in Mexico produced the exact

1257
01:07:29,480 --> 01:07:35,680
Speaker 1: same object to the same standard of quality. So in

1258
01:07:35,760 --> 01:07:39,280
Speaker 1: that way, you know, we're really upending these orthodoxies that

1259
01:07:40,640 --> 01:07:44,560
Speaker 1: made supply chains just as cheap as possible, and a

1260
01:07:44,600 --> 01:07:47,960
Speaker 1: lot of people to really treat them as just cost centers.

1261
01:07:48,120 --> 01:07:50,360
Speaker 1: How do we squeeze you know, every last dollar out

1262
01:07:50,400 --> 01:07:53,280
Speaker 1: of these you know, that's what America's CFOs have been

1263
01:07:53,320 --> 01:07:56,840
Speaker 1: doing for the past fifty years. You know, it's interesting

1264
01:07:57,080 --> 01:08:00,480
Speaker 1: how much of this is just up to companies and

1265
01:08:00,480 --> 01:08:03,440
Speaker 1: how much is actually up to governments when it comes

1266
01:08:03,480 --> 01:08:07,200
Speaker 1: to whether or not companies take these different approaches. So

1267
01:08:07,240 --> 01:08:10,000
Speaker 1: governments have potentially a big role to play. They have

1268
01:08:10,120 --> 01:08:13,200
Speaker 1: played a bigger role outside of America especially. I mean,

1269
01:08:13,240 --> 01:08:16,439
Speaker 1: there's this concept that's kind of been like a dirty

1270
01:08:16,439 --> 01:08:19,679
Speaker 1: word in American politics for a long time, of industrial policy.

1271
01:08:19,760 --> 01:08:23,559
Speaker 1: So let's choose champion industries and let's subsidize them. So

1272
01:08:23,640 --> 01:08:26,120
Speaker 1: you know, China has done this forever. That's why they're

1273
01:08:26,160 --> 01:08:29,040
Speaker 1: the world leader in production of solar panels, for example,

1274
01:08:29,240 --> 01:08:31,240
Speaker 1: or you know, lots of things made out of steel.

1275
01:08:33,439 --> 01:08:35,719
Speaker 1: South Korea did it, and that's why South Korea owns,

1276
01:08:35,760 --> 01:08:39,240
Speaker 1: you know, the flat panel display industry. You know, in America,

1277
01:08:39,360 --> 01:08:43,000
Speaker 1: we haven't tended to do that very much, But now

1278
01:08:43,479 --> 01:08:45,920
Speaker 1: I think I saw headline today that the Senate finally

1279
01:08:45,960 --> 01:08:49,000
Speaker 1: passed funding for the so called Chips Act, which means

1280
01:08:49,000 --> 01:08:52,040
Speaker 1: fifty two billion dollars in subsidies from the federal government

1281
01:08:52,520 --> 01:08:56,840
Speaker 1: to bring some advanced microchip manufacturing back to the US.

1282
01:08:56,880 --> 01:08:58,519
Speaker 1: The US used to make forty percent of the world's

1283
01:08:58,560 --> 01:09:01,360
Speaker 1: microchips in nineteen ninety. You know today it's less than

1284
01:09:01,400 --> 01:09:06,280
Speaker 1: twelve percent. So governments all over the world really are

1285
01:09:06,400 --> 01:09:09,160
Speaker 1: trying to figure out, how do we provide incentives for

1286
01:09:09,320 --> 01:09:14,760
Speaker 1: companies and industries to build their manufacturing capacity and even

1287
01:09:14,880 --> 01:09:18,560
Speaker 1: you know, do things like mine raw materials within our borders.

1288
01:09:19,360 --> 01:09:20,680
Speaker 1: And part of the reason they're doing this is they

1289
01:09:20,680 --> 01:09:25,040
Speaker 1: see it as a national security issue as well. So obviously,

1290
01:09:25,240 --> 01:09:27,360
Speaker 1: if a shooting war starts in the South China, see,

1291
01:09:27,360 --> 01:09:31,160
Speaker 1: and that takes out ninety percent of the world's capacity

1292
01:09:31,200 --> 01:09:33,519
Speaker 1: for a dance microchip manufacturing, that's a problem for the

1293
01:09:33,600 --> 01:09:37,720
Speaker 1: United States and all of its allies. Similarly, you know,

1294
01:09:37,760 --> 01:09:39,400
Speaker 1: if China is the only place that you can get

1295
01:09:39,400 --> 01:09:45,759
Speaker 1: cobalt and nickel and lithium, and a trade war happens,

1296
01:09:46,040 --> 01:09:48,680
Speaker 1: or there's some other reason you can't get those raw materials.

1297
01:09:49,000 --> 01:09:51,840
Speaker 1: It's gonna really hurt all of these car companies that

1298
01:09:51,840 --> 01:09:54,040
Speaker 1: are going all in on electric vehicles because all those

1299
01:09:54,040 --> 01:09:57,120
Speaker 1: are required to make batteries. So unless you want to

1300
01:09:57,160 --> 01:10:00,840
Speaker 1: turn China into the new Saudi Arabia of batteries and

1301
01:10:01,320 --> 01:10:04,400
Speaker 1: green energy, then yeah, you might want to think about

1302
01:10:04,439 --> 01:10:10,360
Speaker 1: how do we either subsidize or facilitate or otherwise encourage,

1303
01:10:10,520 --> 01:10:13,760
Speaker 1: you know, the near shoring or the reshoring of the

1304
01:10:13,760 --> 01:10:16,559
Speaker 1: production of certain things to the United States and elsewhere.

1305
01:10:16,560 --> 01:10:19,840
Speaker 1: It's also really big in Europe at this point. Yeah,

1306
01:10:19,840 --> 01:10:23,559
Speaker 1: and it's interesting what does this mean for workers because

1307
01:10:23,600 --> 01:10:26,880
Speaker 1: when you talk about how forty percent of microtrips were here,

1308
01:10:27,200 --> 01:10:31,519
Speaker 1: now it's twelve percent jobs went somewhere. Are American workers

1309
01:10:31,600 --> 01:10:33,519
Speaker 1: or just any worker and any domestic are they going

1310
01:10:33,560 --> 01:10:37,800
Speaker 1: to have more jobs? Given this state of affairs, We

1311
01:10:37,840 --> 01:10:40,639
Speaker 1: already have an incredibly tight labor market. So honestly, one

1312
01:10:40,640 --> 01:10:45,200
Speaker 1: of the big challenges now for companies wanting to do

1313
01:10:45,240 --> 01:10:48,760
Speaker 1: this is, you know, where are they going to get

1314
01:10:48,760 --> 01:10:54,080
Speaker 1: the labor? And you know, on the one hand, they

1315
01:10:54,080 --> 01:10:58,400
Speaker 1: can get the labor by training workers and offering higher wages,

1316
01:11:00,120 --> 01:11:04,120
Speaker 1: But it's a challenge because they're competing with let's say,

1317
01:11:04,640 --> 01:11:06,800
Speaker 1: you know, Amazon, that's going to offer you twenty two

1318
01:11:06,840 --> 01:11:09,439
Speaker 1: dollars an hour for a warehouse job and a thousand

1319
01:11:09,439 --> 01:11:13,559
Speaker 1: dollars signing bonus. So you know, the American worker has

1320
01:11:13,600 --> 01:11:15,679
Speaker 1: sort of lost a lot of leverage, and the middle

1321
01:11:15,680 --> 01:11:18,040
Speaker 1: class in America really has been hollowed out depending on

1322
01:11:18,040 --> 01:11:22,160
Speaker 1: what measure you look at, since the nineteen seventies. So

1323
01:11:22,280 --> 01:11:25,599
Speaker 1: you could see a continuation of this trend where American

1324
01:11:25,640 --> 01:11:29,800
Speaker 1: workers have more leverage. I do think long term there

1325
01:11:29,840 --> 01:11:33,519
Speaker 1: is a challenge, though, it's a demographic challenge. So America

1326
01:11:33,560 --> 01:11:36,519
Speaker 1: has really put the brakes on immigration in the past

1327
01:11:36,560 --> 01:11:39,479
Speaker 1: five years, and you know, frankly, Americans just are not

1328
01:11:39,600 --> 01:11:42,320
Speaker 1: having nearly as many babies as they once did. So

1329
01:11:42,560 --> 01:11:45,519
Speaker 1: it is hard to imagine with a labor market this

1330
01:11:45,560 --> 01:11:47,400
Speaker 1: type where you're going to get all these extra workers

1331
01:11:47,479 --> 01:11:49,479
Speaker 1: if you were to bring a bunch of manufacturing back,

1332
01:11:49,640 --> 01:11:52,400
Speaker 1: which is one reason why a lot of companies talk

1333
01:11:52,400 --> 01:11:56,000
Speaker 1: instead about near shoring or I've heard it called ally shoring,

1334
01:11:56,160 --> 01:11:58,320
Speaker 1: Like how do we make sure that this manufacturing is

1335
01:11:58,320 --> 01:12:01,880
Speaker 1: happening in a country that is close to us or

1336
01:12:02,160 --> 01:12:03,880
Speaker 1: which you know, we don't think we're going to lose

1337
01:12:03,920 --> 01:12:06,519
Speaker 1: access to in the event of a trader in actual war.

1338
01:12:07,000 --> 01:12:10,519
Speaker 1: So this is good for Mexico, then, yeah, it's good

1339
01:12:10,520 --> 01:12:12,759
Speaker 1: for Mexico. It's good for Canada. It's good for Southeast

1340
01:12:12,760 --> 01:12:16,759
Speaker 1: Asia because they're really been pretty great so far countries

1341
01:12:16,800 --> 01:12:20,800
Speaker 1: in that region, being geopolitically neutral and being sort of

1342
01:12:20,840 --> 01:12:24,000
Speaker 1: a provider of choice for everybody, for China and for

1343
01:12:24,040 --> 01:12:28,879
Speaker 1: the US. You know, there's other I think unexpected winners

1344
01:12:29,000 --> 01:12:31,040
Speaker 1: here as well. I mean I talked to one supply

1345
01:12:31,120 --> 01:12:33,120
Speaker 1: chain expert who told me, you know, I was really

1346
01:12:33,120 --> 01:12:36,040
Speaker 1: looking at where was the next big pool of skilled,

1347
01:12:36,080 --> 01:12:39,640
Speaker 1: low cost labor. And he's like, before Russia's invasion of Ukraine,

1348
01:12:39,760 --> 01:12:44,040
Speaker 1: he was really excited about Ukraine. Forty million people, well educated,

1349
01:12:44,320 --> 01:12:46,360
Speaker 1: you know, labor costs lower than China. He's like, I

1350
01:12:46,360 --> 01:12:48,360
Speaker 1: thought that they were really going to blow up manufacturing.

1351
01:12:48,640 --> 01:12:51,680
Speaker 1: Obviously that didn't happen. So there's always these contingencies that

1352
01:12:51,760 --> 01:12:55,080
Speaker 1: you can't account for. It's something I'm wondering about. You

1353
01:12:55,160 --> 01:12:59,000
Speaker 1: use the phrase supply web as opposed to supply change

1354
01:12:59,000 --> 01:13:01,360
Speaker 1: in terms of what they interested transforming into. Help us

1355
01:13:01,439 --> 01:13:05,800
Speaker 1: understand what that word means. So, you know, supply chain implies.

1356
01:13:06,560 --> 01:13:09,080
Speaker 1: You just imagine like pearls on a strand or something.

1357
01:13:09,120 --> 01:13:12,800
Speaker 1: It's like, you know, here's where you know sand is, mind,

1358
01:13:12,880 --> 01:13:14,720
Speaker 1: here's where it gets turned into silicon. You know, just

1359
01:13:15,560 --> 01:13:18,040
Speaker 1: all one after the other in a linear chain of supply.

1360
01:13:18,120 --> 01:13:20,720
Speaker 1: Web means, how do we find as many suppliers as

1361
01:13:20,760 --> 01:13:25,920
Speaker 1: possible and build factories in different countries, different locations, so

1362
01:13:25,960 --> 01:13:29,040
Speaker 1: that if some if one bit of production gets taken out,

1363
01:13:29,160 --> 01:13:32,439
Speaker 1: you know, the manufacturing and the raw materials can be

1364
01:13:32,520 --> 01:13:37,000
Speaker 1: routed through another factory in order to you know, assure

1365
01:13:37,240 --> 01:13:40,400
Speaker 1: that you know, business can carry on. I mean, look,

1366
01:13:40,400 --> 01:13:42,720
Speaker 1: this was the original model of the Internet, right, I

1367
01:13:42,720 --> 01:13:45,920
Speaker 1: mean our burnet which preceded the Internet. The whole design was,

1368
01:13:46,200 --> 01:13:49,599
Speaker 1: how do we maintain a communications network if some important

1369
01:13:49,600 --> 01:13:51,840
Speaker 1: node gets taken out in a Russian nuclear attack. Oh,

1370
01:13:51,920 --> 01:13:54,960
Speaker 1: let's build a web eventually a world wide web. So

1371
01:13:55,000 --> 01:13:57,600
Speaker 1: how do you build that out of out of physical

1372
01:13:57,680 --> 01:14:00,840
Speaker 1: factories and physical links between them, you know, whether it's

1373
01:14:00,920 --> 01:14:05,000
Speaker 1: rail or truck or planes or ships or anything. So

1374
01:14:06,400 --> 01:14:09,960
Speaker 1: two last questions to wrap with number one. You really

1375
01:14:10,000 --> 01:14:13,519
Speaker 1: focus on the three big events here. So once again, China,

1376
01:14:13,600 --> 01:14:19,439
Speaker 1: trade war, COVID sanctions. These are should we understand these

1377
01:14:19,479 --> 01:14:23,400
Speaker 1: events is basically bringing us to a point of no return. Akay,

1378
01:14:23,400 --> 01:14:26,679
Speaker 1: there's no world where we just perfect reopen or let's

1379
01:14:26,720 --> 01:14:30,320
Speaker 1: say Biden or the next administration changes, or China trade policy,

1380
01:14:30,560 --> 01:14:32,479
Speaker 1: let's say the war in Ukraine ends tomorrow and all

1381
01:14:32,520 --> 01:14:34,840
Speaker 1: of these things just go away. Is there no going

1382
01:14:34,920 --> 01:14:36,960
Speaker 1: back to the way the world used to be or

1383
01:14:37,040 --> 01:14:39,880
Speaker 1: is there something different coming? Yeah? I mean as it

1384
01:14:40,120 --> 01:14:44,080
Speaker 1: to be this like Francis Fukuyama, like end of history

1385
01:14:44,160 --> 01:14:46,400
Speaker 1: or the end of the end of history type of person,

1386
01:14:47,240 --> 01:14:49,360
Speaker 1: because you just never know. But I do think that

1387
01:14:49,439 --> 01:14:53,360
Speaker 1: we have really had decades and decades of being in

1388
01:14:53,360 --> 01:15:00,680
Speaker 1: this unusually benign trade environment, unusually benign geopolitical environment, and

1389
01:15:00,800 --> 01:15:06,479
Speaker 1: it really does feel like we are moving toward this

1390
01:15:06,600 --> 01:15:10,760
Speaker 1: state of where there's just more a permanent state of

1391
01:15:10,840 --> 01:15:15,360
Speaker 1: increased chaos and difficulty in accessing various markets and shipping

1392
01:15:15,400 --> 01:15:20,960
Speaker 1: goods around. And so yeah, I think that old normal

1393
01:15:21,400 --> 01:15:25,719
Speaker 1: is gone, and I think that a new normal where

1394
01:15:26,200 --> 01:15:29,800
Speaker 1: everybody who has to make supply chains work is just

1395
01:15:29,880 --> 01:15:32,800
Speaker 1: constantly recalibrating to try to make them more robust, to

1396
01:15:32,840 --> 01:15:35,400
Speaker 1: try to find new places to make stuff is here.

1397
01:15:35,439 --> 01:15:38,679
Speaker 1: And I think for the American consumer unfortunately, well consumers

1398
01:15:38,680 --> 01:15:40,880
Speaker 1: all over the world. In the meantime, there is just

1399
01:15:40,920 --> 01:15:43,080
Speaker 1: going to be a lot of pain in terms of

1400
01:15:43,080 --> 01:15:46,760
Speaker 1: increased prices because look, even if you know all of

1401
01:15:46,800 --> 01:15:49,920
Speaker 1: these raw materials were readily available, when you try to

1402
01:15:49,920 --> 01:15:55,839
Speaker 1: reconfigure these supply chains for any reason, it costs money

1403
01:15:56,360 --> 01:16:01,320
Speaker 1: and it is a painful transition. Yeah, it's funny from Portland,

1404
01:16:01,320 --> 01:16:03,080
Speaker 1: Oregon's when you describe this world, I just think of

1405
01:16:03,120 --> 01:16:05,280
Speaker 1: the dream of the nineties and the dreams of the nineties.

1406
01:16:05,560 --> 01:16:08,160
Speaker 1: This is what you're describing is basically is basically gone

1407
01:16:08,200 --> 01:16:09,840
Speaker 1: when it comes to this world, well used to come up.

1408
01:16:09,840 --> 01:16:13,960
Speaker 1: And so to wrap this one you describe in the

1409
01:16:13,960 --> 01:16:16,000
Speaker 1: piece and in the book to all these different ways

1410
01:16:16,000 --> 01:16:17,640
Speaker 1: that we could change things, like you said, like the

1411
01:16:17,960 --> 01:16:20,519
Speaker 1: ally shoring. Not a huge fan of that one. I

1412
01:16:20,520 --> 01:16:22,080
Speaker 1: think of some work to be done on the branding

1413
01:16:22,160 --> 01:16:24,919
Speaker 1: side here Thomas Friebin to get on that. But basically

1414
01:16:25,240 --> 01:16:29,679
Speaker 1: ally shoring, spreading out, diversifying, keeping in the hand. How

1415
01:16:29,800 --> 01:16:33,839
Speaker 1: much can those things reduce pain or is there basically

1416
01:16:33,880 --> 01:16:36,400
Speaker 1: nothing that could be done to make things perfectly optimal?

1417
01:16:36,479 --> 01:16:41,840
Speaker 1: Ever again, I mean, the good news is that like

1418
01:16:41,920 --> 01:16:47,559
Speaker 1: our material civilization is not falling apart. Like these global

1419
01:16:47,560 --> 01:16:52,320
Speaker 1: supply chains have shown incredible resilience and adaptability in the

1420
01:16:52,360 --> 01:16:55,160
Speaker 1: face of you know, let's not forget a global pandemic

1421
01:16:55,200 --> 01:16:57,920
Speaker 1: and all the shutdowns that came with that. So you know,

1422
01:16:58,000 --> 01:17:02,519
Speaker 1: the good news is like things will still work. They

1423
01:17:02,520 --> 01:17:04,880
Speaker 1: are just going to be more expensive and we are

1424
01:17:04,880 --> 01:17:08,600
Speaker 1: going to consume less of all that we collectively, you know,

1425
01:17:08,640 --> 01:17:12,800
Speaker 1: and it's going to slow down the economy. But you know,

1426
01:17:12,880 --> 01:17:15,880
Speaker 1: we're still in a world that is in some ways

1427
01:17:15,960 --> 01:17:18,559
Speaker 1: leaps and bounds better than what we had, you know,

1428
01:17:18,920 --> 01:17:23,080
Speaker 1: decades ago, where you just didn't have access to world markets.

1429
01:17:23,080 --> 01:17:24,960
Speaker 1: Like we're still going to have that access. It's just

1430
01:17:25,600 --> 01:17:29,439
Speaker 1: everything's going to cost more and be harder, good way

1431
01:17:29,479 --> 01:17:31,040
Speaker 1: to put it. So, Christer would love you to shout

1432
01:17:31,040 --> 01:17:32,920
Speaker 1: out the book. There's a bunch of copies in the back,

1433
01:17:33,000 --> 01:17:36,000
Speaker 1: but yeah, just shout out the book. Yeah. So the

1434
01:17:36,000 --> 01:17:38,240
Speaker 1: book is called Arriving Today. It's about how everything gets

1435
01:17:38,280 --> 01:17:40,640
Speaker 1: from the factory to the front door. Also, if you

1436
01:17:40,640 --> 01:17:42,479
Speaker 1: don't have the patients for a three indred page book,

1437
01:17:42,840 --> 01:17:46,040
Speaker 1: it's also now a documentary on YouTube and on WSJ

1438
01:17:46,120 --> 01:17:49,960
Speaker 1: dot com called Chain Reaction it's this hour long documentary.

1439
01:17:50,000 --> 01:17:52,360
Speaker 1: We have producers all over the world, and it gives

1440
01:17:52,400 --> 01:17:56,040
Speaker 1: you a really good visual feeling and I think a

1441
01:17:56,120 --> 01:17:58,320
Speaker 1: sense of empathy for the workers involved in these supply

1442
01:17:58,400 --> 01:18:01,679
Speaker 1: chains that you know, I couldn't even capture in a book.

1443
01:18:01,760 --> 01:18:04,120
Speaker 1: So you know, go check out the documentary to start with.

1444
01:18:04,240 --> 01:18:08,280
Speaker 1: It's Chain Reaction, and it's on WSJ dot com and

1445
01:18:08,320 --> 01:18:11,919
Speaker 1: on YouTube. That's awesome. We'll put that in the description,

1446
01:18:12,040 --> 01:18:13,479
Speaker 1: so if you want to check out the documentary, and

1447
01:18:13,520 --> 01:18:15,840
Speaker 1: also Wall Street Journal products normally paywald, so this is

1448
01:18:15,880 --> 01:18:19,400
Speaker 1: a huge opportunity for everyone. Check out pree description right blow.

1449
01:18:19,439 --> 01:18:22,160
Speaker 1: This is huge. Christopher, thank you for joining us on

1450
01:18:22,200 --> 01:18:22,880
Speaker 1: Breaking Points.