Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News.
Speaker 2: Hi everyone, welcome to the deal with Alex Rodriguez and
Speaker 2: me Jason Kelly. We're going to chop it up today
Speaker 2: talk about a lot of what's going on here at
Speaker 2: the intersection of business, sports and culture. Alex, We're going
Speaker 2: to dig into data, talk about how it has transformed
Speaker 2: the business of sports, what happens next, especially when it
Speaker 2: comes to fast growing leagues like the WNBA, the NWSL.
Speaker 2: And we're going to be joined by Jess Gelman.
Speaker 3: You know her.
Speaker 2: She's the CEO of Kager. She's worked very closely with
Speaker 2: the Craft family. It's going to be an awesome conversation.
Speaker 3: I really like her.
Speaker 4: She's a powerhouse, and I'm really excited about our listeners
Speaker 4: to get to know her a little bit. I have
Speaker 4: a personal relationship with her and her company with the Timberwolves,
Speaker 4: She's done great work for us. We'll talk a little
Speaker 4: bit about that, but she is really one of the
Speaker 4: the most progressive CEOs out there that I think is
Speaker 4: going to be up to really big things.
Speaker 2: Excited to really get into all of that with her.
Speaker 2: Before we do that, though, I gotta seize this opportunity, man,
Speaker 2: because It is just an incredible time that we're living
Speaker 2: in in so far as the world of baseball and
Speaker 2: where you were recently in rick Wood. It was going
Speaker 2: to be something special no matter what. This was a
Speaker 2: celebration of the Negro League, which thankfully and belatedly we
Speaker 2: are reconsidering and really integrating, as it were, into the
Speaker 2: history of baseball. But Willie Mays passed away. He was
Speaker 2: meant to be there, he said on Monday he wasn't coming,
Speaker 2: and on Tuesday he passed away, and what was meant
Speaker 2: to be one thing turned into something entirely new.
Speaker 3: You were there, Take us there, Tell me what it
Speaker 3: was like.
Speaker 4: I mean it was I would say a very somber
Speaker 4: celebration that say, hey, kid lived to ninety three years
Speaker 4: young and he lived a full life. I covered it
Speaker 4: with Fox was there for a few days. If you
Speaker 4: think about it, just for our listeners, this is the
Speaker 4: oldest stadium ballpark in the United States. And it was
Speaker 4: such a great night. It was so emotional to pay
Speaker 4: tribute to the Negro League on a national stage with
Speaker 4: so many players just really sacrificed paved the way not
Speaker 4: only for African Americans, but all people of color. To
Speaker 4: have this great opportunity to play like we did.
Speaker 2: I was watching on TV, as were millions of other people.
Speaker 2: What were people talking about behind the scenes.
Speaker 4: I think just gratitude, And I think everybody recognized the
Speaker 4: impact of rickwood Field, the impact of the late Willie Mays.
Speaker 4: What he meant. You got to remember taking our listeners
Speaker 4: to the late nineteen forties, early nineteen fifties. You know
Speaker 4: what made Michael Jordan even that much greater was he
Speaker 4: was pre social media. Well, Willie Mays was pre television,
Speaker 4: and he was like a myth. You couldn't see him,
Speaker 4: but you can only hear him. And he played in
Speaker 4: the most popular sport and he was the biggest star.
Speaker 4: He's Muhammad Ali in the ring. Is Michael Jordan on
Speaker 4: the court and the impact he made in this world.
Speaker 4: There's so many people to me, including my father that said, Alex,
Speaker 4: the reason why I love baseball is two players, Mickey
Speaker 4: Mantle and Willie Mays.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 2: So another player that you got a chance to spend
Speaker 2: some time with, and candidly, fortunately for us, you got
Speaker 2: to spend some time with him on air. Is a
Speaker 2: moment that went completely viral. You talking to Reggie Jackson.
Speaker 2: You asked him a question and he talked about his
Speaker 2: experience as a man of color, as an African American
Speaker 2: player coming up.
Speaker 3: It was unbelievably powerful.
Speaker 5: Coming back here is not easy. The racism that I
Speaker 5: played here when I played here, the difficulty going through
Speaker 5: different places where we traveled. I wouldn't wish it on anybody.
Speaker 3: What was it like sitting there? Jas.
Speaker 4: I'm glad you said that, because it's one of the
Speaker 4: most powerful moments I've seen on television. It was the
Speaker 4: last question I asked it. I talked about how does
Speaker 4: it feel to come back to Rickwood? And he came
Speaker 4: out and gave one of the most elegant, heartfelt sincere
Speaker 4: answers where the N word was mentioned three or four times,
Speaker 4: and we were just like, good for you, Reggie. The
Speaker 4: response was overwhelming, and Jeter, myself and Poppy, we were
Speaker 4: there talking to ourselves and we were saying offline, I
Speaker 4: cannot believe how bad they had it, and how fortunate
Speaker 4: we are and how grateful we are to be in
Speaker 4: a situation where so many greats, truly giants, paved the
Speaker 4: way for all of us people of color.
Speaker 2: What I heard from Reggie and clearly. I say this
Speaker 2: as a you know, white guy who has no experience
Speaker 2: like his or kindidly like yours. It was a really
Speaker 2: sharp reminder that awful things were perpetrated on these players.
Speaker 2: And it wasn't that long ago. Man, It was like
Speaker 2: during our lifetime. What was it like for you, again,
Speaker 2: as someone who is incredibly successful in this sport, a
Speaker 2: man of color who elevated the game, what was it
Speaker 2: like for you to go back, especially in the context
Speaker 2: of Willie Mays and Reggie Jackson and others who were
Speaker 2: there both physically and in spirit.
Speaker 4: You know, Hayse posed a game of schedules, and that
Speaker 4: one when it came out early in the schedule, I
Speaker 4: circled that one. I was really excited to go back.
Speaker 4: What shocked me was how emotional it was. We had
Speaker 4: some fun, and some of those moments went viral too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, well, this is what they call in
Speaker 2: the business a hard pivot. We're gonna talk about analytics,
Speaker 2: but we will go back to your playing days on this,
Speaker 2: because you know, you came up as all this was
Speaker 2: kind of breaking out. You know, Moneyball comes on the scene,
Speaker 2: and now obviously you're experiencing it as a team owner,
Speaker 2: take me back to your playing days, like, what was
Speaker 2: it like as analytics comes to the four?
Speaker 3: What did you see?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 4: I find it funny Billy Bean, who's a good buddy
Speaker 4: who obviously was played by Brad Pitt on Moneyball. I
Speaker 4: find it funny that everyone thinks that was like the
Speaker 4: first inning of analytics, which which it wasn't. It was
Speaker 4: probably somewhere in the top of the third with a
Speaker 4: lot of his big days in front of it. But
Speaker 4: if you think about Tony Russa, if you think about Lupinella,
Speaker 4: Billy Martin, They've been using numbers forever and it was
Speaker 4: just done a little bit differently. I remember when I
Speaker 4: played in Seattle and I would come home, I would
Speaker 4: rewatch the games and I would literally chart. If I
Speaker 4: was facing Jason, I would chart you because I was
Speaker 4: going to see you the next week, and I would
Speaker 4: just prep I will see your tendencies numbers. I always
Speaker 4: wanted to see what is Jason Kelly throw when it
Speaker 4: three two bases loaded at Fenway Park right, and a
Speaker 4: lot of times there will be an anomaly out there
Speaker 4: be like eighty two percent change up. That's what Jamie
Speaker 4: Moyer used to do, so you had to work a
Speaker 4: little bit. It wasn't readily as available. You didn't have
Speaker 4: armies of front offices that look more like Hetch funds
Speaker 4: and private equity than a baseball team front office. But
Speaker 4: it's been there a long time and it has been
Speaker 4: very helpful.
Speaker 2: And it obviously it's become an industry in and of itself.
Speaker 2: And that's what we're going to talk to Jess Gelman about.
Speaker 2: I have to ask you, as a team owner in
Speaker 2: a different sport, how does it manifest in the NBA
Speaker 2: in basketball, and how have you learned sort of the
Speaker 2: different tricks of the trade there.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we say we use it as a guide, not
Speaker 3: a gospel.
Speaker 4: And it's important to look at numbers studium, but everybody
Speaker 4: has the same numbers. Everyone has really smart front offices.
Speaker 4: It's what you do with those numbers and you know,
Speaker 4: getting them in the context of what's relevant of what
Speaker 4: you're trying to solve for. I think sometimes people go
Speaker 4: overboard and they only look at the numbers, but you
Speaker 4: got to look at both. And I think you probably
Speaker 4: want to land somewhere on seventy percent numbers and thirty
Speaker 4: percent feel and trust in the eyes and pattern recognition.
Speaker 4: That's why it's so important to have people in your
Speaker 4: dugout in baseball with experience that can help you out
Speaker 4: put these numbers together.
Speaker 3: All right, coming up, jess Gelman. We're excited to talk
Speaker 3: to her.
Speaker 2: All right, Joining us now, Jessica Gelman. She's the CEO
Speaker 2: of Caeger stands for the Craft Analytics Group for those
Speaker 2: of you who don't know. She's the co founder co
Speaker 2: chair of the MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conference. That is
Speaker 2: the place where everybody gathers every year to talk about
Speaker 2: all things sports business technology. She's a minority owner of
Speaker 2: the Utah Royals and WSL team. She played some hoops.
Speaker 2: She's from Chicago. She is high up on Alex Rodriguez's
Speaker 2: list of the smartest peace in the business. And we're
Speaker 2: a psyched to have you here. Thank you for joining us.
Speaker 6: I'm a huge fan of the show. I learned something
Speaker 6: every time I listened to it. It is part of
Speaker 6: the Cager culture too. We all listen to it and
Speaker 6: you guys do a fantastic job.
Speaker 1: So I'm really honored to join.
Speaker 2: So Alex, talk to me about jess in front of her,
Speaker 2: because like, this is someone you've been a huge proponent
Speaker 2: en of How did do you remember?
Speaker 3: How you guys met?
Speaker 4: I was really leaning in my friends Robert Craft and
Speaker 4: Jonathan who are as smartest as they come, and they're
Speaker 4: so generous with their time and sharing best practices. And
Speaker 4: part of what Robert does so well is he mentors
Speaker 4: so many people and I consider myself lucky to be that.
Speaker 4: And he kept talking about, you got to meet Jessica.
Speaker 4: You got to meet Jessica. She's incredible. We kind of
Speaker 4: hit it off completely, and once I got to know
Speaker 4: her a little bit better, when the Timbolves opportunity came up,
Speaker 4: I said, jess you got to help us with the Timberwolves,
Speaker 4: And I got to tell you working with Jessica firsthand,
Speaker 4: I can tell you what an incredible partner she's been,
Speaker 4: how much value she's brought us, And quite honestly, Jessica
Speaker 4: and Keega were a big part of our nice long
Speaker 4: run to the Western Conference finals this year for the
Speaker 4: tim Wolves.
Speaker 2: Oh there you go. Like the results that speak for themselves.
Speaker 2: So let's not get too far away from the Crafts.
Speaker 2: Jess like tell us about linking up with Bob Craft
Speaker 2: and Jonathan crafton sort of how that kind of manifested
Speaker 2: and accelerated into this business today.
Speaker 6: Sure, so I think just as a starting point where
Speaker 6: analytics and where sports is today is not where it
Speaker 6: was when I was interested in kind of going into
Speaker 6: sports coming out of business school in two thousand and two.
Speaker 6: It actually wasn't like a thing, but I was one
Speaker 6: of those people who was really focused on it, in
Speaker 6: part because of my experiences growing up. We didn't go
Speaker 6: to a lot of sporting events as a family, but
Speaker 6: it was such a highlight of my experiences and also honestly,
Speaker 6: seeing the athletes inspired me to try and do and
Speaker 6: be more, and I just thought it'd be really fun
Speaker 6: to be on the other side of helping to create
Speaker 6: those memories. And so when I applied to Harvard Business School,
Speaker 6: it was with a focus on going into sports. And
Speaker 6: lucky for me, Jillett Stadium was opening or about to
Speaker 6: open the year that I was graduating from business school,
Speaker 6: and we did a project during my second year at HBS,
Speaker 6: and we were selected to help with how to maximize
Speaker 6: this asset of Jellette Stadium, which obviously the Crafts had
Speaker 6: invested a tremendous amount into on non game days and
Speaker 6: So we did our project about three weeks before the
Speaker 6: final presentation, about three weeks before I graduated, and they
Speaker 6: asked if they could help open any doors in sports.
Speaker 6: I said, okay, I should probably follow up on this one,
Speaker 6: and they ultimately created.
Speaker 1: A role for me.
Speaker 3: You're like, there's a door and it's in your office.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, here I am.
Speaker 6: But you know, at the beginning it was it was
Speaker 6: really kind of like an internal consultant.
Speaker 2: And so, you know, Jess, I have to say, analytics
Speaker 2: sort of comes up. I am taken to the movie Moneyball.
Speaker 2: Obviously read the book, but when it comes onto the
Speaker 2: screen and there's that great moment where Jonah Hill and
Speaker 2: Brad Pitt are, you know, sitting in the room and
Speaker 2: they're with all the old sort of crusty scouts and
Speaker 2: they're essentially like, who's this guy?
Speaker 5: Who's that?
Speaker 1: That's Pete?
Speaker 3: Does Pete really need to be here?
Speaker 6: Yes?
Speaker 5: He does.
Speaker 2: When you started to sort of bring this data, did
Speaker 2: you have sort of like a Jonah Hill moment where
Speaker 2: they're like, who's this?
Speaker 3: Like what is she talking about?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 6: So in two thousand and nine, the Patriots had had
Speaker 6: a couple of years that weren't as good relatively speaking,
Speaker 6: we had seen some drops in season ticket member retention,
Speaker 6: and at this point in time, I was overseeing our
Speaker 6: market research and a lot of what I would call
Speaker 6: today is performance marketing, which is like you reach customers
Speaker 6: with the right message at the right time. But there
Speaker 6: wasn't a ton of data, and so there was a
Speaker 6: group of executives in a room trying to talk about
Speaker 6: what were we going to do to make the season
Speaker 6: ticket members feel more valued, trying to understand what their
Speaker 6: pain points were, and so we're all going around the
Speaker 6: room and I raised my hand, and I was junior
Speaker 6: within the organization at this time, and I shared that
Speaker 6: the feedback from our customers suggested that the gate entry
Speaker 6: was a real problem. And if you have ever been
Speaker 6: down to Jilt Stadium, it's not a problem today, but
Speaker 6: at the time, the process of scanning and being padded
Speaker 6: down and all of those challenges made it a long process.
Speaker 6: And the person who oversaw the gates was a Green
Speaker 6: Beret security officer and really literally took my head off
Speaker 6: in the meeting, and it was intimidating for sure. And
Speaker 6: this is I think one of the key things about
Speaker 6: the value of analytics is that I said, listen, this
Speaker 6: is not my opinion of what the pain points are.
Speaker 1: This is the feedback from our customers.
Speaker 6: We can look at the data and see how long
Speaker 6: they're in line, if they're getting into the game after
Speaker 6: the kickoff. And that was again especially as a woman,
Speaker 6: like very critical for kind of saying it's not my opinion,
Speaker 6: it's broader than that, and it's actually an overarching experience
Speaker 6: that our fans are having that we should be paying
Speaker 6: attention to.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so, Jess, I like that.
Speaker 4: And you know, you get brought in Caeger to bring
Speaker 4: value at revenue unlock perhaps revenue where owners and management are.
Speaker 3: Not necessarily looking.
Speaker 4: What would you say are two or three of the
Speaker 4: most common mistakes that you see from front offices and
Speaker 4: owners in sports.
Speaker 1: It's a great question.
Speaker 6: I mean, the most specific is listening and understanding who
Speaker 6: your customers actually are. And that's the premise of everything
Speaker 6: that we do with Cager.
Speaker 1: It's who are they?
Speaker 6: And analytics is like it can be a scary term
Speaker 6: to people, so I always like to demystify it a
Speaker 6: little bit. So you know, there's descriptive analytics, there's predictive analytics,
Speaker 6: and then there's prescriptive. So I'll put this in like
Speaker 6: season ticket member talk for you. Descriptive analytics would be
Speaker 6: as simple as who are your season ticket members, what
Speaker 6: is their tenure, where are they sitting in the venue,
Speaker 6: And that's super helpful to understand kind of what they're doing,
Speaker 6: even their retention.
Speaker 1: Predictive analytics is based on.
Speaker 6: The behaviors that you might be capturing about those customers.
Speaker 6: What is their likelihood to remain a season ticket member,
Speaker 6: likelihood to be spending more with you, likelihood to maybe
Speaker 6: need to be downgraded. And the prescriptive part is how
Speaker 6: are you going to take this information and change or
Speaker 6: give the customer.
Speaker 1: What they want.
Speaker 6: That component impacts everything. It impacts what are the products
Speaker 6: that you have within your venue. I mean, Alex, a lot.
Speaker 1: Of the things that I've seen you drive is around.
Speaker 6: Creating more premium experiences for some of your customers, but
Speaker 6: also meeting the average fan who maybe couldn't otherwise attend.
Speaker 6: And that's a lot of the work that we've helped drive.
Speaker 6: So that is critical the understanding of the customers.
Speaker 1: But then it's more thinking broader.
Speaker 6: Who's the customer going to be and what does that
Speaker 6: mean in terms of the broader offerings that you could
Speaker 6: potentially have for those fans. So here at Patriot Place,
Speaker 6: it wasn't just what is game day like?
Speaker 1: It's what is non game day like?
Speaker 6: And I give so much credit to the Crafts, both
Speaker 6: Robert and Jonathan for trying to understand that three sixty
Speaker 6: five view of who the fans are. So the key
Speaker 6: things are understanding your customers and then reaching your customer
Speaker 6: through the right channel at the right time with the
Speaker 6: right product. It sounds like it's really easy, but it's
Speaker 6: really hard mm hm.
Speaker 4: When you have a winning team or when you have
Speaker 4: an alpha like a Tom Brady. Obviously the combination is
Speaker 4: letho and we've seen the Patriots results. But which one
Speaker 4: would you say is more important? And how do you
Speaker 4: deal when you have an alpha, a goat like a
Speaker 4: Tom Brady?
Speaker 3: How do you capitalize that?
Speaker 6: Again, I would give the craft so much credit for
Speaker 6: their perspective. What we will often see is that teams
Speaker 6: that are very successful, it's easy to sell tickets when
Speaker 6: you're good. It's hard to make the investments and build
Speaker 6: the foundation, like investing in a data warehouse, like providing
Speaker 6: the right training facilities, get the players to come so
Speaker 6: the continuous investment to improve the underlying fan experience or
Speaker 6: improve the underlying player experience is so very critical, and
Speaker 6: preparing for that time is hard because it's really easy
Speaker 6: to just say we're going to increase ticket prices and
Speaker 6: it looks like the business is getting better. It's hard
Speaker 6: to drive customer acquisition or fan acquisition. And I think
Speaker 6: the same holds true, you know, on the sporting.
Speaker 2: Side, And so what about that sort of human element,
Speaker 2: because what we love about sports is ultimately these are
Speaker 2: human beings on the field, on the court, on the pitch,
Speaker 2: what have you. On the golf course, we just saw
Speaker 2: roy alckle Roy like miss a couple putts that you know,
Speaker 2: change the course of you know, certainly his personal golf history.
Speaker 2: How do you sort of weave humanity in? Knowing that
Speaker 2: the human element is so critical in sports, I would.
Speaker 6: Say early in the two thousands, when we were kind
Speaker 6: of just starting, it was all focused on what the
Speaker 6: consumers told you. Now there's if you guys don't know
Speaker 6: the amount of data available doubles every two years, So
Speaker 6: how do you take that information right?
Speaker 1: How do you take that information to enhance the fan experience?
Speaker 1: And that's pretty powerful.
Speaker 6: You know, the data can be tricky though, Like let
Speaker 6: me give you like an example as like a former
Speaker 6: basketball player with specifics to how people are talking about
Speaker 6: Caitlin Clark right now. So one of the things that
Speaker 6: I see is that people are saying she's not performing
Speaker 6: at the level that people had anticipated that she would
Speaker 6: perform at. And I would say that's ridiculous. She is
Speaker 6: the number one focus for the defense on every other team.
Speaker 6: To be a rookie with that kind of responsibility is significant.
Speaker 6: You look at people will say that the only other
Speaker 6: player of the year and rookie of the year was
Speaker 6: Candice Parker.
Speaker 1: Well, she was playing with Lisa Leslie.
Speaker 6: Right, And so I think that we have to take
Speaker 6: any of the data or that humanization of things, and
Speaker 6: we have to have the broader context of what is happening.
Speaker 6: And you know, in some cases it's fandom and you've
Speaker 6: played the sport. And I think as we have more
Speaker 6: and more data available that will increase.
Speaker 1: I want other idea.
Speaker 6: Can I share this idea that I'm really passionate about
Speaker 6: And Alex, I'm kind.
Speaker 1: Of dying to get your perspective on this one. So
Speaker 1: one of my.
Speaker 6: Passions is like understanding who's going to perform well in
Speaker 6: pressure situations. I studied it in college. I want to
Speaker 6: know if you can figure this out. I've had a
Speaker 6: lot of conversations with Daryl Morey, who I co founded
Speaker 6: the mitslow on Sports Analytics conference with.
Speaker 1: We talk about it a lot.
Speaker 6: I think potentially with AI and the ability to potentially
Speaker 6: look at a player and their facial expressions and the
Speaker 6: ability to read what they're seeing or feeling, that there
Speaker 6: could be for the fan they could say, if they're
Speaker 6: viewing that and you have that.
Speaker 1: Here's who I think you should give it to.
Speaker 6: That's beyond just how they're performing or how they've historically performed,
Speaker 6: but also for a coach, like if they had that
Speaker 6: type of information. There's this great piece from a few
Speaker 6: years ago where Patrick Mahomes's heart rate was higher when
Speaker 6: he was watching the game that when he was playing
Speaker 6: in the game. I mean that type of information to
Speaker 6: be able to be seen in real time I think
Speaker 6: is really profound. But I don't know, Alex, if you
Speaker 6: could speak to like that performance side.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I love it, Jesse, I mean you beat me
Speaker 4: to the punch. I think what I would have said
Speaker 4: is if you got a heart monitor on a guy
Speaker 4: like Manu or Maris who played for the Red Sox,
Speaker 4: literally the greatest hitter right handed hitter I've ever seen.
Speaker 4: If you put a heart monitor, I guarantee you, with
Speaker 4: Basis loaded Frienway Park World Series, that heartbeat is a
Speaker 4: slow motion. It's probably faster when he's going to Starbucks
Speaker 4: or when he wakes.
Speaker 3: Up in the mountain.
Speaker 4: But where he's most comfortable, almost sleeping, like is at
Speaker 4: the plate. So that would be an incredible thing. But
Speaker 4: I would say being in baseball for thirty years now,
Speaker 4: there's a pattern recognition that you see in people's behavior,
Speaker 4: their accountability, their ability to face challenges. You getting enough
Speaker 4: of these pattern recognitions and you start putting That doesn't
Speaker 4: mean you're always in a head, but I feel very
Speaker 4: comfortable watching baseball players of who would do well in
Speaker 4: those type of situations. Just to put a button on
Speaker 4: this conversation on analytics, I'll give you two examples in
Speaker 4: my experience in baseball where I think a team did
Speaker 4: it really well and another team that I thought could
Speaker 4: have been done a lot better. One team they give you,
Speaker 4: like remember the old en psyclopedia sets like twenty seven
Speaker 4: books that would just throw it on you. Yeah, a
Speaker 4: bunch of data and you overwhelm the hitter. He's drowning
Speaker 4: with numbers. He doesn't even know what's coming on, what's going.
Speaker 4: So that's a very negative way in my opinion. The
Speaker 4: team that does it really well is one that says, Okay,
Speaker 4: here's all this information. We have our three analytics folks
Speaker 4: that came in and said he are the most important. Three, one, two,
Speaker 4: and number three is Jason. When you're hitting, eighty five
Speaker 4: percent of the balls are throwing to you are balls
Speaker 4: and you shouldn't swing. However, you're swinging ninety percent of
Speaker 4: the times, and your batting average is one twenty in
Speaker 4: that pitch. And if you can fix the three to
Speaker 4: two count just to get pedestrian to two fifty, your
Speaker 4: batting average would go up twenty points, which will make
Speaker 4: you an All star. So when you're that specific about
Speaker 4: something that's so tangible, when you give that information to
Speaker 4: a great athlete, usually it pays great dividends.
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's true for business too, Like, here's a couple
Speaker 6: of really good data points that will change the way
Speaker 6: that you think. If you know, for example, and this
Speaker 6: is a finding that sixty percent of fans of a
Speaker 6: league are fans of two teams, and that in a
Speaker 6: league that equally their favorite teams. That changes the way
Speaker 6: that the team and or the league will market and
Speaker 6: engage that customer. That's a piece of information that we've identified.
Speaker 6: If you know that your fans are actively unsubscribing from
Speaker 6: a certain type of ticket or piece of digital content, that.
Speaker 1: You will provide less of that.
Speaker 6: Right, those like nuggets that Alex is talking about, very specific,
Speaker 6: very insightful.
Speaker 1: That's exactly what we are doing at Kager for our clients.
Speaker 1: Where it's i mean, people talk.
Speaker 6: A lot about like what is the fan demand, it's
Speaker 6: also about what is like what will move them to get.
Speaker 1: More of what they want? And how can we solidify
Speaker 1: and simplify that for our partners.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so let's talk about some deals.
Speaker 2: I mean, you you have been out there, you know,
Speaker 2: working with all sorts of teams and leagues, whether it's NASCAR.
Speaker 3: You know, other NFL teams you mentioned.
Speaker 2: Alex and I talk all the time about this moment
Speaker 2: in college sports, how it relates to professional sports, but
Speaker 2: even just like how it sits in the broader society.
Speaker 2: Tell us about what you're doing with the NCUBLEA because
Speaker 2: it feels like it's gonna help us understand where we're going.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean the most important thing here is that
Speaker 6: the NCUBLEA hosts ninety championships. And as someone who loves
Speaker 6: sports and especially college sports, you don't even I don't
Speaker 6: as someone necessarily know where those championship ships are, where
Speaker 6: they're happening, and the ease of buying tickets a few
Speaker 6: years ago, I.
Speaker 1: Recognize this upswing potential.
Speaker 6: This is like my example because I think it's really
Speaker 6: relevant to some of the changes we're trying to help
Speaker 6: the NCUAA with.
Speaker 1: There was this up swing with Kaitlin.
Speaker 6: Clark two years ago, and I looked at where the
Speaker 6: regionals were for the NCUBLEA. It was in Albany, New York,
Speaker 6: and there was not going to be another regionals in
Speaker 6: the northeast or even on the East Coast for another
Speaker 6: three years, and.
Speaker 1: I wanted to buy tickets right then.
Speaker 6: It was like during the final four two years ago,
Speaker 6: I didn't even have the opportunity to sign up to
Speaker 6: get an email to tell me when those tickets were
Speaker 6: going to be on sale. So today the NCUBLEA has
Speaker 6: about eleven million fans in their data warehouse, which is good.
Speaker 6: Our expectation in the work that we've done with them
Speaker 6: so far we've worked on two specific championships, men's lacrosse
Speaker 6: and men's basketball, is that within four to five years
Speaker 6: we can help grow it to over twenty five million.
Speaker 6: And that's with a focus on data capture, on having
Speaker 6: good relationships with their partners, but also just like engaging
Speaker 6: fans in the right ways when you know they have
Speaker 6: passions for things.
Speaker 2: So as a father of a college lacrosse player, I'm grateful,
Speaker 2: thank you, thank you for your work, thank you for
Speaker 2: your service.
Speaker 3: It actually has been pretty incredible to watch that.
Speaker 2: So that leads us right to I think something super
Speaker 2: interesting that's happening in this transition from college to pro
Speaker 2: What needs to happen from a data perspective to ensure
Speaker 2: that these gains that are happening. And let's start with
Speaker 2: the w with the WNBA that they like sustain.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would say two things.
Speaker 6: A few years ago, Sue Bird came to the Sloan
Speaker 6: Conference is twenty fifteen, her first time, and the next year,
Speaker 6: as she was coming to the conference, she did a
Speaker 6: Player's Tribune piece called analyze this and highlighted the lack
Speaker 6: of data that was available on women's athletics, and that
Speaker 6: really stuck with me because you need to have that
Speaker 6: historical context to frame up the significance of what is
Speaker 6: happening right now with respect to scoring or assists or
Speaker 6: player interaction. So one of the things that we have
Speaker 6: done through the san conferences, we've made investments. We made
Speaker 6: a donation to the Basketball Reference to get all of
Speaker 6: the historical data of college athletics. For women's it had
Speaker 6: only gone back to two thousand and four. Now it
Speaker 6: goes back to nineteen eighty four, but that launched this
Speaker 6: past March, So that kind of data is super critical.
Speaker 6: But also for the athletes to have that more broadly
Speaker 6: about what is happening so that they can take the
Speaker 6: right care for their bodies. So that is one that's
Speaker 6: really important. And then on the business side, transparently, there
Speaker 6: hasn't been the investment on the technology or on the
Speaker 6: customer data that is needed, and there's a bunch of
Speaker 6: reasons for that. But this past year, I think the
Speaker 6: Vegas was the first to announce at the aces that
Speaker 6: they sold out, and that's the first WNBA team to
Speaker 6: sell out their season tickets and there's been subsequently at
Speaker 6: least another two or three and that's really powerful because
Speaker 6: it highlights the demand. But I was even just looking
Speaker 6: at the NHL Game five, I think had three point one.
Speaker 1: Million people who watched it.
Speaker 6: The Angel reached Chicago Sky Caitlyn Clark Indiana Fever game
Speaker 6: had like two point one That was a regular season game.
Speaker 1: But that's what's starting to happen, and I think the key.
Speaker 6: The key from a pure business perspective is that the sponsors,
Speaker 6: the brands who support sports and help hold it up,
Speaker 6: they need to be able to reach that fan base
Speaker 6: more directly and that doesn't exist today and that's a
Speaker 6: lot of the work that collectively as an industry, we
Speaker 6: need to evolve and improve.
Speaker 3: Alex, last question for you before we go to the
Speaker 3: lightning round. What do you got?
Speaker 4: Well, jess you have a lot of folks that will
Speaker 4: be listening to you today and if somebody wants to
Speaker 4: be like the next Jessica Gellman, what advice would you
Speaker 4: give them?
Speaker 1: Oh Man?
Speaker 6: So I'm going to take that as interest and analytics,
Speaker 6: most important thing is to be curious and be humble.
Speaker 6: I think too many people are thinking about what they
Speaker 6: need to do, and the best way to learn is
Speaker 6: by the people who you're interacting and engaging with and
Speaker 6: surround yourself by really bright people. The Crafts have been
Speaker 6: incredible supporters. They're amazing entrepreneurs and you know, to get
Speaker 6: to know partner with them in the creation of care
Speaker 6: at the outset and then what we've come to be
Speaker 6: across the industry is something really phenomenal. But I think
Speaker 6: like people often think that you like work for companies,
Speaker 6: like you work for people, and you work for managers.
Speaker 6: And where are you going to learn and be curious
Speaker 6: and learn good behaviors or patterns you said at the beginning, Alex, Yeah.
Speaker 2: All right, we're going to move on to the lightning round,
Speaker 2: so quick, quick, quick, quick, just the whatever pops to mind,
Speaker 2: all right, And this is sort of building on some
Speaker 2: stuff we've talked about. But what's the best piece of
Speaker 2: advice you've received on deal making or business?
Speaker 6: So to me, the best advice is about having true
Speaker 6: trust in the partnership. That's the most important because things
Speaker 6: are going to go sideways in some form or fashion
Speaker 6: at some point in time, and do you have a
Speaker 6: true understanding of how you're going to move forward together,
Speaker 6: so focus on who your partner is and the trust factor.
Speaker 3: What's the best deal you wish you'd been a part of?
Speaker 1: Best deal? I wish I'd been a part of. I
Speaker 1: kind of love what the NFL did with on Location.
Speaker 1: They're one of our partners. But to see the growth
Speaker 1: of what Endeavor.
Speaker 6: Has done with that business is truly phenomenal. And the
Speaker 6: foresight of the NFL to recognize that there was so
Speaker 6: much value that was being lost and even the experiences
Speaker 6: of the fans that they weren't controlling at the super Bowl,
Speaker 6: and to take this of the super Bowl and extend
Speaker 6: it to the Olympics and so much more broadly is
Speaker 6: pretty powerful and I think has really changed the industry.
Speaker 2: What is the one mistake you would tell people to
Speaker 2: avoid in negotiations?
Speaker 1: Don't be greedy?
Speaker 6: This concept of really understanding what moves and motivates the
Speaker 6: other side and hearing what they're saying. It's really hard
Speaker 6: sometimes from an ego perspective, like step outside and recognize
Speaker 6: that there are a lot of unsaid things that are
Speaker 6: being communicated, and how do you hear what they're saying
Speaker 6: and listen to it.
Speaker 1: That's it.
Speaker 4: What's your hype song before you go into a big meeting,
Speaker 4: a negotiation, or even like a little run or something.
Speaker 1: I love that one.
Speaker 6: I'm gonna have to go with Pat Benattar all fired up?
Speaker 4: Nice? I love it.
Speaker 3: What's the best deal you've worked on? What's your favorite deal?
Speaker 1: The next one? Uh?
Speaker 3: That's good?
Speaker 1: All right?
Speaker 2: Well, you've been super generous with your time. We had
Speaker 2: been so excited to do this with you. We really
Speaker 2: really appreciate it.
Speaker 3: Best of Black. I'm sure we'll be seeing you around.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Thanks Jess, thank you. I appreciate it.
Speaker 2: The Deal is hosted by Alex Rodriguez and me Jason Kelly.
Speaker 2: This episode was made by Victor eveyas Stacey Wong, Annamasarakus,
Speaker 2: and Lizzie phillip Arth. The music was made by Blake Maples.
Speaker 2: Brendan Francis Newnham is our executive producer. Sage Fouman is
Speaker 2: the head of Bloomberg Podcasts. Additional support from Kelly Lafarier,
Speaker 2: Ashley Honig, Rachel, Scara Mazzino, and Elena Los Angeles. If
Speaker 2: you have a minute, subscribe, rate and review our show.
Speaker 2: It'll help other listeners find us thanks so much for listening,
Speaker 2: See you next time.