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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News.

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Speaker 2: Hi everyone, welcome to the deal with Alex Rodriguez and

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Speaker 2: me Jason Kelly. We're going to chop it up today

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Speaker 2: talk about a lot of what's going on here at

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Speaker 2: the intersection of business, sports and culture. Alex, We're going

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Speaker 2: to dig into data, talk about how it has transformed

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Speaker 2: the business of sports, what happens next, especially when it

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Speaker 2: comes to fast growing leagues like the WNBA, the NWSL.

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Speaker 2: And we're going to be joined by Jess Gelman.

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Speaker 3: You know her.

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Speaker 2: She's the CEO of Kager. She's worked very closely with

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Speaker 2: the Craft family. It's going to be an awesome conversation.

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Speaker 3: I really like her.

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Speaker 4: She's a powerhouse, and I'm really excited about our listeners

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Speaker 4: to get to know her a little bit. I have

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Speaker 4: a personal relationship with her and her company with the Timberwolves,

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Speaker 4: She's done great work for us. We'll talk a little

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Speaker 4: bit about that, but she is really one of the

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Speaker 4: the most progressive CEOs out there that I think is

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Speaker 4: going to be up to really big things.

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Speaker 2: Excited to really get into all of that with her.

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Speaker 2: Before we do that, though, I gotta seize this opportunity, man,

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Speaker 2: because It is just an incredible time that we're living

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Speaker 2: in in so far as the world of baseball and

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Speaker 2: where you were recently in rick Wood. It was going

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Speaker 2: to be something special no matter what. This was a

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Speaker 2: celebration of the Negro League, which thankfully and belatedly we

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Speaker 2: are reconsidering and really integrating, as it were, into the

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Speaker 2: history of baseball. But Willie Mays passed away. He was

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Speaker 2: meant to be there, he said on Monday he wasn't coming,

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Speaker 2: and on Tuesday he passed away, and what was meant

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Speaker 2: to be one thing turned into something entirely new.

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Speaker 3: You were there, Take us there, Tell me what it

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Speaker 3: was like.

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Speaker 4: I mean it was I would say a very somber

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Speaker 4: celebration that say, hey, kid lived to ninety three years

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Speaker 4: young and he lived a full life. I covered it

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Speaker 4: with Fox was there for a few days. If you

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Speaker 4: think about it, just for our listeners, this is the

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Speaker 4: oldest stadium ballpark in the United States. And it was

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Speaker 4: such a great night. It was so emotional to pay

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Speaker 4: tribute to the Negro League on a national stage with

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Speaker 4: so many players just really sacrificed paved the way not

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Speaker 4: only for African Americans, but all people of color. To

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Speaker 4: have this great opportunity to play like we did.

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Speaker 2: I was watching on TV, as were millions of other people.

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Speaker 2: What were people talking about behind the scenes.

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Speaker 4: I think just gratitude, And I think everybody recognized the

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Speaker 4: impact of rickwood Field, the impact of the late Willie Mays.

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Speaker 4: What he meant. You got to remember taking our listeners

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Speaker 4: to the late nineteen forties, early nineteen fifties. You know

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Speaker 4: what made Michael Jordan even that much greater was he

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Speaker 4: was pre social media. Well, Willie Mays was pre television,

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Speaker 4: and he was like a myth. You couldn't see him,

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Speaker 4: but you can only hear him. And he played in

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Speaker 4: the most popular sport and he was the biggest star.

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Speaker 4: He's Muhammad Ali in the ring. Is Michael Jordan on

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Speaker 4: the court and the impact he made in this world.

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Speaker 4: There's so many people to me, including my father that said, Alex,

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Speaker 4: the reason why I love baseball is two players, Mickey

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Speaker 4: Mantle and Willie Mays.

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Speaker 3: Wow.

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Speaker 2: So another player that you got a chance to spend

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Speaker 2: some time with, and candidly, fortunately for us, you got

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Speaker 2: to spend some time with him on air. Is a

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Speaker 2: moment that went completely viral. You talking to Reggie Jackson.

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Speaker 2: You asked him a question and he talked about his

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Speaker 2: experience as a man of color, as an African American

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Speaker 2: player coming up.

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Speaker 3: It was unbelievably powerful.

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Speaker 5: Coming back here is not easy. The racism that I

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Speaker 5: played here when I played here, the difficulty going through

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Speaker 5: different places where we traveled. I wouldn't wish it on anybody.

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Speaker 3: What was it like sitting there? Jas.

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Speaker 4: I'm glad you said that, because it's one of the

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Speaker 4: most powerful moments I've seen on television. It was the

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Speaker 4: last question I asked it. I talked about how does

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Speaker 4: it feel to come back to Rickwood? And he came

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Speaker 4: out and gave one of the most elegant, heartfelt sincere

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Speaker 4: answers where the N word was mentioned three or four times,

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Speaker 4: and we were just like, good for you, Reggie. The

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Speaker 4: response was overwhelming, and Jeter, myself and Poppy, we were

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Speaker 4: there talking to ourselves and we were saying offline, I

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Speaker 4: cannot believe how bad they had it, and how fortunate

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Speaker 4: we are and how grateful we are to be in

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Speaker 4: a situation where so many greats, truly giants, paved the

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Speaker 4: way for all of us people of color.

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Speaker 2: What I heard from Reggie and clearly. I say this

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Speaker 2: as a you know, white guy who has no experience

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Speaker 2: like his or kindidly like yours. It was a really

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Speaker 2: sharp reminder that awful things were perpetrated on these players.

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Speaker 2: And it wasn't that long ago. Man, It was like

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Speaker 2: during our lifetime. What was it like for you, again,

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Speaker 2: as someone who is incredibly successful in this sport, a

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Speaker 2: man of color who elevated the game, what was it

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Speaker 2: like for you to go back, especially in the context

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Speaker 2: of Willie Mays and Reggie Jackson and others who were

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Speaker 2: there both physically and in spirit.

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Speaker 4: You know, Hayse posed a game of schedules, and that

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Speaker 4: one when it came out early in the schedule, I

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Speaker 4: circled that one. I was really excited to go back.

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Speaker 4: What shocked me was how emotional it was. We had

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Speaker 4: some fun, and some of those moments went viral too.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, well, this is what they call in

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Speaker 2: the business a hard pivot. We're gonna talk about analytics,

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Speaker 2: but we will go back to your playing days on this,

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Speaker 2: because you know, you came up as all this was

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Speaker 2: kind of breaking out. You know, Moneyball comes on the scene,

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Speaker 2: and now obviously you're experiencing it as a team owner,

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Speaker 2: take me back to your playing days, like, what was

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Speaker 2: it like as analytics comes to the four?

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Speaker 3: What did you see?

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Speaker 1: You know?

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Speaker 4: I find it funny Billy Bean, who's a good buddy

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Speaker 4: who obviously was played by Brad Pitt on Moneyball. I

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Speaker 4: find it funny that everyone thinks that was like the

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Speaker 4: first inning of analytics, which which it wasn't. It was

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Speaker 4: probably somewhere in the top of the third with a

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Speaker 4: lot of his big days in front of it. But

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Speaker 4: if you think about Tony Russa, if you think about Lupinella,

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Speaker 4: Billy Martin, They've been using numbers forever and it was

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Speaker 4: just done a little bit differently. I remember when I

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Speaker 4: played in Seattle and I would come home, I would

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Speaker 4: rewatch the games and I would literally chart. If I

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Speaker 4: was facing Jason, I would chart you because I was

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Speaker 4: going to see you the next week, and I would

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Speaker 4: just prep I will see your tendencies numbers. I always

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Speaker 4: wanted to see what is Jason Kelly throw when it

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Speaker 4: three two bases loaded at Fenway Park right, and a

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Speaker 4: lot of times there will be an anomaly out there

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Speaker 4: be like eighty two percent change up. That's what Jamie

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Speaker 4: Moyer used to do, so you had to work a

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Speaker 4: little bit. It wasn't readily as available. You didn't have

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Speaker 4: armies of front offices that look more like Hetch funds

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Speaker 4: and private equity than a baseball team front office. But

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Speaker 4: it's been there a long time and it has been

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Speaker 4: very helpful.

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Speaker 2: And it obviously it's become an industry in and of itself.

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Speaker 2: And that's what we're going to talk to Jess Gelman about.

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Speaker 2: I have to ask you, as a team owner in

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Speaker 2: a different sport, how does it manifest in the NBA

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Speaker 2: in basketball, and how have you learned sort of the

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Speaker 2: different tricks of the trade there.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we say we use it as a guide, not

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Speaker 3: a gospel.

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Speaker 4: And it's important to look at numbers studium, but everybody

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Speaker 4: has the same numbers. Everyone has really smart front offices.

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Speaker 4: It's what you do with those numbers and you know,

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Speaker 4: getting them in the context of what's relevant of what

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Speaker 4: you're trying to solve for. I think sometimes people go

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Speaker 4: overboard and they only look at the numbers, but you

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Speaker 4: got to look at both. And I think you probably

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Speaker 4: want to land somewhere on seventy percent numbers and thirty

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Speaker 4: percent feel and trust in the eyes and pattern recognition.

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Speaker 4: That's why it's so important to have people in your

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Speaker 4: dugout in baseball with experience that can help you out

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Speaker 4: put these numbers together.

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Speaker 3: All right, coming up, jess Gelman. We're excited to talk

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Speaker 3: to her.

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Speaker 2: All right, Joining us now, Jessica Gelman. She's the CEO

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Speaker 2: of Caeger stands for the Craft Analytics Group for those

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Speaker 2: of you who don't know. She's the co founder co

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Speaker 2: chair of the MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conference. That is

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Speaker 2: the place where everybody gathers every year to talk about

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Speaker 2: all things sports business technology. She's a minority owner of

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Speaker 2: the Utah Royals and WSL team. She played some hoops.

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Speaker 2: She's from Chicago. She is high up on Alex Rodriguez's

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Speaker 2: list of the smartest peace in the business. And we're

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Speaker 2: a psyched to have you here. Thank you for joining us.

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Speaker 6: I'm a huge fan of the show. I learned something

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Speaker 6: every time I listened to it. It is part of

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Speaker 6: the Cager culture too. We all listen to it and

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Speaker 6: you guys do a fantastic job.

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Speaker 1: So I'm really honored to join.

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Speaker 2: So Alex, talk to me about jess in front of her,

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Speaker 2: because like, this is someone you've been a huge proponent

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Speaker 2: en of How did do you remember?

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Speaker 3: How you guys met?

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Speaker 4: I was really leaning in my friends Robert Craft and

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Speaker 4: Jonathan who are as smartest as they come, and they're

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Speaker 4: so generous with their time and sharing best practices. And

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Speaker 4: part of what Robert does so well is he mentors

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Speaker 4: so many people and I consider myself lucky to be that.

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Speaker 4: And he kept talking about, you got to meet Jessica.

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Speaker 4: You got to meet Jessica. She's incredible. We kind of

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Speaker 4: hit it off completely, and once I got to know

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Speaker 4: her a little bit better, when the Timbolves opportunity came up,

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Speaker 4: I said, jess you got to help us with the Timberwolves,

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Speaker 4: And I got to tell you working with Jessica firsthand,

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Speaker 4: I can tell you what an incredible partner she's been,

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Speaker 4: how much value she's brought us, And quite honestly, Jessica

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Speaker 4: and Keega were a big part of our nice long

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Speaker 4: run to the Western Conference finals this year for the

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Speaker 4: tim Wolves.

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Speaker 2: Oh there you go. Like the results that speak for themselves.

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Speaker 2: So let's not get too far away from the Crafts.

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Speaker 2: Jess like tell us about linking up with Bob Craft

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Speaker 2: and Jonathan crafton sort of how that kind of manifested

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Speaker 2: and accelerated into this business today.

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Speaker 6: Sure, so I think just as a starting point where

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Speaker 6: analytics and where sports is today is not where it

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Speaker 6: was when I was interested in kind of going into

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Speaker 6: sports coming out of business school in two thousand and two.

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Speaker 6: It actually wasn't like a thing, but I was one

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Speaker 6: of those people who was really focused on it, in

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Speaker 6: part because of my experiences growing up. We didn't go

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Speaker 6: to a lot of sporting events as a family, but

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Speaker 6: it was such a highlight of my experiences and also honestly,

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Speaker 6: seeing the athletes inspired me to try and do and

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Speaker 6: be more, and I just thought it'd be really fun

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Speaker 6: to be on the other side of helping to create

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Speaker 6: those memories. And so when I applied to Harvard Business School,

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Speaker 6: it was with a focus on going into sports. And

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Speaker 6: lucky for me, Jillett Stadium was opening or about to

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Speaker 6: open the year that I was graduating from business school,

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Speaker 6: and we did a project during my second year at HBS,

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Speaker 6: and we were selected to help with how to maximize

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Speaker 6: this asset of Jellette Stadium, which obviously the Crafts had

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Speaker 6: invested a tremendous amount into on non game days and

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Speaker 6: So we did our project about three weeks before the

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Speaker 6: final presentation, about three weeks before I graduated, and they

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Speaker 6: asked if they could help open any doors in sports.

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Speaker 6: I said, okay, I should probably follow up on this one,

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Speaker 6: and they ultimately created.

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Speaker 1: A role for me.

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Speaker 3: You're like, there's a door and it's in your office.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, here I am.

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Speaker 6: But you know, at the beginning it was it was

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Speaker 6: really kind of like an internal consultant.

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Speaker 2: And so, you know, Jess, I have to say, analytics

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Speaker 2: sort of comes up. I am taken to the movie Moneyball.

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Speaker 2: Obviously read the book, but when it comes onto the

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Speaker 2: screen and there's that great moment where Jonah Hill and

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Speaker 2: Brad Pitt are, you know, sitting in the room and

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Speaker 2: they're with all the old sort of crusty scouts and

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Speaker 2: they're essentially like, who's this guy?

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Speaker 5: Who's that?

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Speaker 1: That's Pete?

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Speaker 3: Does Pete really need to be here?

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Speaker 6: Yes?

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Speaker 5: He does.

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Speaker 2: When you started to sort of bring this data, did

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Speaker 2: you have sort of like a Jonah Hill moment where

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Speaker 2: they're like, who's this?

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Speaker 3: Like what is she talking about?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 6: So in two thousand and nine, the Patriots had had

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Speaker 6: a couple of years that weren't as good relatively speaking,

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Speaker 6: we had seen some drops in season ticket member retention,

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Speaker 6: and at this point in time, I was overseeing our

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Speaker 6: market research and a lot of what I would call

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Speaker 6: today is performance marketing, which is like you reach customers

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Speaker 6: with the right message at the right time. But there

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Speaker 6: wasn't a ton of data, and so there was a

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Speaker 6: group of executives in a room trying to talk about

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Speaker 6: what were we going to do to make the season

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Speaker 6: ticket members feel more valued, trying to understand what their

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Speaker 6: pain points were, and so we're all going around the

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Speaker 6: room and I raised my hand, and I was junior

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Speaker 6: within the organization at this time, and I shared that

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Speaker 6: the feedback from our customers suggested that the gate entry

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Speaker 6: was a real problem. And if you have ever been

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Speaker 6: down to Jilt Stadium, it's not a problem today, but

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Speaker 6: at the time, the process of scanning and being padded

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Speaker 6: down and all of those challenges made it a long process.

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Speaker 6: And the person who oversaw the gates was a Green

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Speaker 6: Beret security officer and really literally took my head off

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Speaker 6: in the meeting, and it was intimidating for sure. And

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Speaker 6: this is I think one of the key things about

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Speaker 6: the value of analytics is that I said, listen, this

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Speaker 6: is not my opinion of what the pain points are.

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Speaker 1: This is the feedback from our customers.

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Speaker 6: We can look at the data and see how long

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Speaker 6: they're in line, if they're getting into the game after

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Speaker 6: the kickoff. And that was again especially as a woman,

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Speaker 6: like very critical for kind of saying it's not my opinion,

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Speaker 6: it's broader than that, and it's actually an overarching experience

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Speaker 6: that our fans are having that we should be paying

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Speaker 6: attention to.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so, Jess, I like that.

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Speaker 4: And you know, you get brought in Caeger to bring

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Speaker 4: value at revenue unlock perhaps revenue where owners and management are.

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Speaker 3: Not necessarily looking.

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Speaker 4: What would you say are two or three of the

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Speaker 4: most common mistakes that you see from front offices and

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Speaker 4: owners in sports.

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Speaker 1: It's a great question.

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Speaker 6: I mean, the most specific is listening and understanding who

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Speaker 6: your customers actually are. And that's the premise of everything

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Speaker 6: that we do with Cager.

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Speaker 1: It's who are they?

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Speaker 6: And analytics is like it can be a scary term

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Speaker 6: to people, so I always like to demystify it a

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Speaker 6: little bit. So you know, there's descriptive analytics, there's predictive analytics,

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Speaker 6: and then there's prescriptive. So I'll put this in like

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Speaker 6: season ticket member talk for you. Descriptive analytics would be

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Speaker 6: as simple as who are your season ticket members, what

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Speaker 6: is their tenure, where are they sitting in the venue,

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Speaker 6: And that's super helpful to understand kind of what they're doing,

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Speaker 6: even their retention.

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Speaker 1: Predictive analytics is based on.

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Speaker 6: The behaviors that you might be capturing about those customers.

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Speaker 6: What is their likelihood to remain a season ticket member,

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Speaker 6: likelihood to be spending more with you, likelihood to maybe

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Speaker 6: need to be downgraded. And the prescriptive part is how

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Speaker 6: are you going to take this information and change or

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Speaker 6: give the customer.

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Speaker 1: What they want.

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Speaker 6: That component impacts everything. It impacts what are the products

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Speaker 6: that you have within your venue. I mean, Alex, a lot.

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Speaker 1: Of the things that I've seen you drive is around.

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Speaker 6: Creating more premium experiences for some of your customers, but

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Speaker 6: also meeting the average fan who maybe couldn't otherwise attend.

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Speaker 6: And that's a lot of the work that we've helped drive.

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Speaker 6: So that is critical the understanding of the customers.

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Speaker 1: But then it's more thinking broader.

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Speaker 6: Who's the customer going to be and what does that

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Speaker 6: mean in terms of the broader offerings that you could

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Speaker 6: potentially have for those fans. So here at Patriot Place,

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Speaker 6: it wasn't just what is game day like?

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Speaker 1: It's what is non game day like?

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Speaker 6: And I give so much credit to the Crafts, both

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Speaker 6: Robert and Jonathan for trying to understand that three sixty

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Speaker 6: five view of who the fans are. So the key

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Speaker 6: things are understanding your customers and then reaching your customer

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Speaker 6: through the right channel at the right time with the

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Speaker 6: right product. It sounds like it's really easy, but it's

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Speaker 6: really hard mm hm.

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Speaker 4: When you have a winning team or when you have

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Speaker 4: an alpha like a Tom Brady. Obviously the combination is

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Speaker 4: letho and we've seen the Patriots results. But which one

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Speaker 4: would you say is more important? And how do you

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Speaker 4: deal when you have an alpha, a goat like a

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Speaker 4: Tom Brady?

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Speaker 3: How do you capitalize that?

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Speaker 6: Again, I would give the craft so much credit for

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Speaker 6: their perspective. What we will often see is that teams

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Speaker 6: that are very successful, it's easy to sell tickets when

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Speaker 6: you're good. It's hard to make the investments and build

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Speaker 6: the foundation, like investing in a data warehouse, like providing

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Speaker 6: the right training facilities, get the players to come so

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Speaker 6: the continuous investment to improve the underlying fan experience or

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Speaker 6: improve the underlying player experience is so very critical, and

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Speaker 6: preparing for that time is hard because it's really easy

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Speaker 6: to just say we're going to increase ticket prices and

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Speaker 6: it looks like the business is getting better. It's hard

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Speaker 6: to drive customer acquisition or fan acquisition. And I think

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Speaker 6: the same holds true, you know, on the sporting.

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Speaker 2: Side, And so what about that sort of human element,

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Speaker 2: because what we love about sports is ultimately these are

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Speaker 2: human beings on the field, on the court, on the pitch,

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Speaker 2: what have you. On the golf course, we just saw

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Speaker 2: roy alckle Roy like miss a couple putts that you know,

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Speaker 2: change the course of you know, certainly his personal golf history.

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Speaker 2: How do you sort of weave humanity in? Knowing that

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Speaker 2: the human element is so critical in sports, I would.

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Speaker 6: Say early in the two thousands, when we were kind

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Speaker 6: of just starting, it was all focused on what the

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Speaker 6: consumers told you. Now there's if you guys don't know

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Speaker 6: the amount of data available doubles every two years, So

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Speaker 6: how do you take that information right?

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Speaker 1: How do you take that information to enhance the fan experience?

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Speaker 1: And that's pretty powerful.

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Speaker 6: You know, the data can be tricky though, Like let

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Speaker 6: me give you like an example as like a former

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Speaker 6: basketball player with specifics to how people are talking about

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Speaker 6: Caitlin Clark right now. So one of the things that

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Speaker 6: I see is that people are saying she's not performing

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Speaker 6: at the level that people had anticipated that she would

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Speaker 6: perform at. And I would say that's ridiculous. She is

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Speaker 6: the number one focus for the defense on every other team.

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Speaker 6: To be a rookie with that kind of responsibility is significant.

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Speaker 6: You look at people will say that the only other

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Speaker 6: player of the year and rookie of the year was

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Speaker 6: Candice Parker.

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Speaker 1: Well, she was playing with Lisa Leslie.

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Speaker 6: Right, And so I think that we have to take

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Speaker 6: any of the data or that humanization of things, and

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Speaker 6: we have to have the broader context of what is happening.

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Speaker 6: And you know, in some cases it's fandom and you've

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Speaker 6: played the sport. And I think as we have more

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Speaker 6: and more data available that will increase.

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Speaker 1: I want other idea.

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Speaker 6: Can I share this idea that I'm really passionate about

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Speaker 6: And Alex, I'm kind.

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Speaker 1: Of dying to get your perspective on this one. So

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Speaker 1: one of my.

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Speaker 6: Passions is like understanding who's going to perform well in

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Speaker 6: pressure situations. I studied it in college. I want to

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Speaker 6: know if you can figure this out. I've had a

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Speaker 6: lot of conversations with Daryl Morey, who I co founded

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Speaker 6: the mitslow on Sports Analytics conference with.

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Speaker 1: We talk about it a lot.

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Speaker 6: I think potentially with AI and the ability to potentially

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Speaker 6: look at a player and their facial expressions and the

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Speaker 6: ability to read what they're seeing or feeling, that there

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Speaker 6: could be for the fan they could say, if they're

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Speaker 6: viewing that and you have that.

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Speaker 1: Here's who I think you should give it to.

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Speaker 6: That's beyond just how they're performing or how they've historically performed,

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Speaker 6: but also for a coach, like if they had that

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Speaker 6: type of information. There's this great piece from a few

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Speaker 6: years ago where Patrick Mahomes's heart rate was higher when

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Speaker 6: he was watching the game that when he was playing

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Speaker 6: in the game. I mean that type of information to

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Speaker 6: be able to be seen in real time I think

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Speaker 6: is really profound. But I don't know, Alex, if you

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Speaker 6: could speak to like that performance side.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I love it, Jesse, I mean you beat me

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Speaker 4: to the punch. I think what I would have said

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Speaker 4: is if you got a heart monitor on a guy

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Speaker 4: like Manu or Maris who played for the Red Sox,

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Speaker 4: literally the greatest hitter right handed hitter I've ever seen.

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Speaker 4: If you put a heart monitor, I guarantee you, with

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Speaker 4: Basis loaded Frienway Park World Series, that heartbeat is a

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Speaker 4: slow motion. It's probably faster when he's going to Starbucks

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Speaker 4: or when he wakes.

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Speaker 3: Up in the mountain.

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Speaker 4: But where he's most comfortable, almost sleeping, like is at

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Speaker 4: the plate. So that would be an incredible thing. But

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Speaker 4: I would say being in baseball for thirty years now,

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Speaker 4: there's a pattern recognition that you see in people's behavior,

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Speaker 4: their accountability, their ability to face challenges. You getting enough

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Speaker 4: of these pattern recognitions and you start putting That doesn't

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Speaker 4: mean you're always in a head, but I feel very

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Speaker 4: comfortable watching baseball players of who would do well in

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Speaker 4: those type of situations. Just to put a button on

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Speaker 4: this conversation on analytics, I'll give you two examples in

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Speaker 4: my experience in baseball where I think a team did

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Speaker 4: it really well and another team that I thought could

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Speaker 4: have been done a lot better. One team they give you,

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Speaker 4: like remember the old en psyclopedia sets like twenty seven

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Speaker 4: books that would just throw it on you. Yeah, a

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Speaker 4: bunch of data and you overwhelm the hitter. He's drowning

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Speaker 4: with numbers. He doesn't even know what's coming on, what's going.

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Speaker 4: So that's a very negative way in my opinion. The

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Speaker 4: team that does it really well is one that says, Okay,

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Speaker 4: here's all this information. We have our three analytics folks

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Speaker 4: that came in and said he are the most important. Three, one, two,

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Speaker 4: and number three is Jason. When you're hitting, eighty five

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Speaker 4: percent of the balls are throwing to you are balls

442
00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:37,200
Speaker 4: and you shouldn't swing. However, you're swinging ninety percent of

443
00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:39,679
Speaker 4: the times, and your batting average is one twenty in

444
00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:41,800
Speaker 4: that pitch. And if you can fix the three to

445
00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:45,959
Speaker 4: two count just to get pedestrian to two fifty, your

446
00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:48,240
Speaker 4: batting average would go up twenty points, which will make

447
00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:51,160
Speaker 4: you an All star. So when you're that specific about

448
00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:53,520
Speaker 4: something that's so tangible, when you give that information to

449
00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:56,720
Speaker 4: a great athlete, usually it pays great dividends.

450
00:22:56,920 --> 00:22:59,840
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's true for business too, Like, here's a couple

451
00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:02,160
Speaker 6: of really good data points that will change the way

452
00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:05,080
Speaker 6: that you think. If you know, for example, and this

453
00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:09,000
Speaker 6: is a finding that sixty percent of fans of a

454
00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:11,240
Speaker 6: league are fans of two teams, and that in a

455
00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:14,879
Speaker 6: league that equally their favorite teams. That changes the way

456
00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:17,719
Speaker 6: that the team and or the league will market and

457
00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:21,920
Speaker 6: engage that customer. That's a piece of information that we've identified.

458
00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:26,840
Speaker 6: If you know that your fans are actively unsubscribing from

459
00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:29,480
Speaker 6: a certain type of ticket or piece of digital content, that.

460
00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:31,520
Speaker 1: You will provide less of that.

461
00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:36,000
Speaker 6: Right, those like nuggets that Alex is talking about, very specific,

462
00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:37,480
Speaker 6: very insightful.

463
00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:42,160
Speaker 1: That's exactly what we are doing at Kager for our clients.

464
00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:44,840
Speaker 1: Where it's i mean, people talk.

465
00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:47,280
Speaker 6: A lot about like what is the fan demand, it's

466
00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:51,320
Speaker 6: also about what is like what will move them to get.

467
00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:54,399
Speaker 1: More of what they want? And how can we solidify

468
00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:57,080
Speaker 1: and simplify that for our partners.

469
00:23:57,720 --> 00:23:59,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, so let's talk about some deals.

470
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:03,199
Speaker 2: I mean, you you have been out there, you know,

471
00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:07,880
Speaker 2: working with all sorts of teams and leagues, whether it's NASCAR.

472
00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:10,120
Speaker 3: You know, other NFL teams you mentioned.

473
00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:13,320
Speaker 2: Alex and I talk all the time about this moment

474
00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:18,119
Speaker 2: in college sports, how it relates to professional sports, but

475
00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:21,360
Speaker 2: even just like how it sits in the broader society.

476
00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:24,240
Speaker 2: Tell us about what you're doing with the NCUBLEA because

477
00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:26,840
Speaker 2: it feels like it's gonna help us understand where we're going.

478
00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:29,240
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean the most important thing here is that

479
00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:35,080
Speaker 6: the NCUBLEA hosts ninety championships. And as someone who loves

480
00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:38,840
Speaker 6: sports and especially college sports, you don't even I don't

481
00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:42,680
Speaker 6: as someone necessarily know where those championship ships are, where

482
00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:45,720
Speaker 6: they're happening, and the ease of buying tickets a few

483
00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:48,080
Speaker 6: years ago, I.

484
00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:50,320
Speaker 1: Recognize this upswing potential.

485
00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:52,400
Speaker 6: This is like my example because I think it's really

486
00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:54,560
Speaker 6: relevant to some of the changes we're trying to help

487
00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:55,439
Speaker 6: the NCUAA with.

488
00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:58,000
Speaker 1: There was this up swing with Kaitlin.

489
00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:01,399
Speaker 6: Clark two years ago, and I looked at where the

490
00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:05,640
Speaker 6: regionals were for the NCUBLEA. It was in Albany, New York,

491
00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:09,160
Speaker 6: and there was not going to be another regionals in

492
00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:11,960
Speaker 6: the northeast or even on the East Coast for another

493
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:13,400
Speaker 6: three years, and.

494
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:15,080
Speaker 1: I wanted to buy tickets right then.

495
00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:18,040
Speaker 6: It was like during the final four two years ago,

496
00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:21,959
Speaker 6: I didn't even have the opportunity to sign up to

497
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:23,920
Speaker 6: get an email to tell me when those tickets were

498
00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:27,719
Speaker 6: going to be on sale. So today the NCUBLEA has

499
00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:32,679
Speaker 6: about eleven million fans in their data warehouse, which is good.

500
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:35,440
Speaker 6: Our expectation in the work that we've done with them

501
00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:39,000
Speaker 6: so far we've worked on two specific championships, men's lacrosse

502
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:41,840
Speaker 6: and men's basketball, is that within four to five years

503
00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:44,000
Speaker 6: we can help grow it to over twenty five million.

504
00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:47,639
Speaker 6: And that's with a focus on data capture, on having

505
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:51,400
Speaker 6: good relationships with their partners, but also just like engaging

506
00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:53,720
Speaker 6: fans in the right ways when you know they have

507
00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:54,680
Speaker 6: passions for things.

508
00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:59,840
Speaker 2: So as a father of a college lacrosse player, I'm grateful,

509
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:01,639
Speaker 2: thank you, thank you for your work, thank you for

510
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:02,199
Speaker 2: your service.

511
00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:05,359
Speaker 3: It actually has been pretty incredible to watch that.

512
00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:09,960
Speaker 2: So that leads us right to I think something super

513
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:13,120
Speaker 2: interesting that's happening in this transition from college to pro

514
00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:18,040
Speaker 2: What needs to happen from a data perspective to ensure

515
00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:21,960
Speaker 2: that these gains that are happening. And let's start with

516
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:26,320
Speaker 2: the w with the WNBA that they like sustain.

517
00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:28,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would say two things.

518
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:32,000
Speaker 6: A few years ago, Sue Bird came to the Sloan

519
00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:36,000
Speaker 6: Conference is twenty fifteen, her first time, and the next year,

520
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:38,639
Speaker 6: as she was coming to the conference, she did a

521
00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:43,040
Speaker 6: Player's Tribune piece called analyze this and highlighted the lack

522
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:46,199
Speaker 6: of data that was available on women's athletics, and that

523
00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:49,119
Speaker 6: really stuck with me because you need to have that

524
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:52,520
Speaker 6: historical context to frame up the significance of what is

525
00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:55,719
Speaker 6: happening right now with respect to scoring or assists or

526
00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:59,959
Speaker 6: player interaction. So one of the things that we have

527
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:03,840
Speaker 6: done through the san conferences, we've made investments. We made

528
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:06,800
Speaker 6: a donation to the Basketball Reference to get all of

529
00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:11,200
Speaker 6: the historical data of college athletics. For women's it had

530
00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:13,600
Speaker 6: only gone back to two thousand and four. Now it

531
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:17,520
Speaker 6: goes back to nineteen eighty four, but that launched this

532
00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:20,840
Speaker 6: past March, So that kind of data is super critical.

533
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:23,880
Speaker 6: But also for the athletes to have that more broadly

534
00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:26,119
Speaker 6: about what is happening so that they can take the

535
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:29,600
Speaker 6: right care for their bodies. So that is one that's

536
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:33,240
Speaker 6: really important. And then on the business side, transparently, there

537
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:37,240
Speaker 6: hasn't been the investment on the technology or on the

538
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:39,560
Speaker 6: customer data that is needed, and there's a bunch of

539
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:42,400
Speaker 6: reasons for that. But this past year, I think the

540
00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:44,840
Speaker 6: Vegas was the first to announce at the aces that

541
00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:48,800
Speaker 6: they sold out, and that's the first WNBA team to

542
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:52,199
Speaker 6: sell out their season tickets and there's been subsequently at

543
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:55,120
Speaker 6: least another two or three and that's really powerful because

544
00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:57,560
Speaker 6: it highlights the demand. But I was even just looking

545
00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:02,960
Speaker 6: at the NHL Game five, I think had three point one.

546
00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:04,200
Speaker 1: Million people who watched it.

547
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:08,760
Speaker 6: The Angel reached Chicago Sky Caitlyn Clark Indiana Fever game

548
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:11,720
Speaker 6: had like two point one That was a regular season game.

549
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:15,000
Speaker 1: But that's what's starting to happen, and I think the key.

550
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:19,640
Speaker 6: The key from a pure business perspective is that the sponsors,

551
00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:23,280
Speaker 6: the brands who support sports and help hold it up,

552
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:27,000
Speaker 6: they need to be able to reach that fan base

553
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 6: more directly and that doesn't exist today and that's a

554
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:33,359
Speaker 6: lot of the work that collectively as an industry, we

555
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:34,520
Speaker 6: need to evolve and improve.

556
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:38,080
Speaker 3: Alex, last question for you before we go to the

557
00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:39,320
Speaker 3: lightning round. What do you got?

558
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:41,840
Speaker 4: Well, jess you have a lot of folks that will

559
00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:44,040
Speaker 4: be listening to you today and if somebody wants to

560
00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:47,960
Speaker 4: be like the next Jessica Gellman, what advice would you

561
00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:48,360
Speaker 4: give them?

562
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:49,240
Speaker 1: Oh Man?

563
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:52,520
Speaker 6: So I'm going to take that as interest and analytics,

564
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:55,600
Speaker 6: most important thing is to be curious and be humble.

565
00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:59,440
Speaker 6: I think too many people are thinking about what they

566
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:02,400
Speaker 6: need to do, and the best way to learn is

567
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:05,080
Speaker 6: by the people who you're interacting and engaging with and

568
00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:10,120
Speaker 6: surround yourself by really bright people. The Crafts have been

569
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:15,520
Speaker 6: incredible supporters. They're amazing entrepreneurs and you know, to get

570
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:18,600
Speaker 6: to know partner with them in the creation of care

571
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:20,240
Speaker 6: at the outset and then what we've come to be

572
00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:24,440
Speaker 6: across the industry is something really phenomenal. But I think

573
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:28,080
Speaker 6: like people often think that you like work for companies,

574
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:30,280
Speaker 6: like you work for people, and you work for managers.

575
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:32,840
Speaker 6: And where are you going to learn and be curious

576
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:50,640
Speaker 6: and learn good behaviors or patterns you said at the beginning, Alex, Yeah.

577
00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:47,160
Speaker 2: All right, we're going to move on to the lightning round,

578
00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:51,240
Speaker 2: so quick, quick, quick, quick, just the whatever pops to mind,

579
00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 2: all right, And this is sort of building on some

580
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:55,680
Speaker 2: stuff we've talked about. But what's the best piece of

581
00:29:55,680 --> 00:30:00,000
Speaker 2: advice you've received on deal making or business?

582
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:05,320
Speaker 6: So to me, the best advice is about having true

583
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:11,440
Speaker 6: trust in the partnership. That's the most important because things

584
00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:13,840
Speaker 6: are going to go sideways in some form or fashion

585
00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:17,640
Speaker 6: at some point in time, and do you have a

586
00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:20,560
Speaker 6: true understanding of how you're going to move forward together,

587
00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:25,400
Speaker 6: so focus on who your partner is and the trust factor.

588
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:29,000
Speaker 3: What's the best deal you wish you'd been a part of?

589
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:33,400
Speaker 1: Best deal? I wish I'd been a part of. I

590
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:36,560
Speaker 1: kind of love what the NFL did with on Location.

591
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:40,640
Speaker 1: They're one of our partners. But to see the growth

592
00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:43,400
Speaker 1: of what Endeavor.

593
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:48,680
Speaker 6: Has done with that business is truly phenomenal. And the

594
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:52,400
Speaker 6: foresight of the NFL to recognize that there was so

595
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:56,160
Speaker 6: much value that was being lost and even the experiences

596
00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:58,840
Speaker 6: of the fans that they weren't controlling at the super Bowl,

597
00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:03,080
Speaker 6: and to take this of the super Bowl and extend

598
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 6: it to the Olympics and so much more broadly is

599
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:08,600
Speaker 6: pretty powerful and I think has really changed the industry.

600
00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:12,040
Speaker 2: What is the one mistake you would tell people to

601
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:13,640
Speaker 2: avoid in negotiations?

602
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:15,160
Speaker 1: Don't be greedy?

603
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:21,560
Speaker 6: This concept of really understanding what moves and motivates the

604
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:24,400
Speaker 6: other side and hearing what they're saying. It's really hard

605
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:30,240
Speaker 6: sometimes from an ego perspective, like step outside and recognize

606
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:33,000
Speaker 6: that there are a lot of unsaid things that are

607
00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:37,120
Speaker 6: being communicated, and how do you hear what they're saying

608
00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:38,360
Speaker 6: and listen to it.

609
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:38,840
Speaker 1: That's it.

610
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:42,880
Speaker 4: What's your hype song before you go into a big meeting,

611
00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:45,400
Speaker 4: a negotiation, or even like a little run or something.

612
00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:46,480
Speaker 1: I love that one.

613
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:50,400
Speaker 6: I'm gonna have to go with Pat Benattar all fired up?

614
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:56,680
Speaker 4: Nice? I love it.

615
00:31:57,600 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 3: What's the best deal you've worked on? What's your favorite deal?

616
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:01,920
Speaker 1: The next one? Uh?

617
00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:04,760
Speaker 3: That's good?

618
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:06,000
Speaker 1: All right?

619
00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:09,040
Speaker 2: Well, you've been super generous with your time. We had

620
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:11,600
Speaker 2: been so excited to do this with you. We really

621
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:12,640
Speaker 2: really appreciate it.

622
00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:14,520
Speaker 3: Best of Black. I'm sure we'll be seeing you around.

623
00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:17,880
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Thanks Jess, thank you. I appreciate it.

624
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:27,200
Speaker 2: The Deal is hosted by Alex Rodriguez and me Jason Kelly.

625
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:31,960
Speaker 2: This episode was made by Victor eveyas Stacey Wong, Annamasarakus,

626
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:35,520
Speaker 2: and Lizzie phillip Arth. The music was made by Blake Maples.

627
00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:39,520
Speaker 2: Brendan Francis Newnham is our executive producer. Sage Fouman is

628
00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:43,840
Speaker 2: the head of Bloomberg Podcasts. Additional support from Kelly Lafarier,

629
00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:48,840
Speaker 2: Ashley Honig, Rachel, Scara Mazzino, and Elena Los Angeles. If

630
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:51,800
Speaker 2: you have a minute, subscribe, rate and review our show.

631
00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:55,560
Speaker 2: It'll help other listeners find us thanks so much for listening,

632
00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:56,600
Speaker 2: See you next time.