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Speaker 1: You're listening to Bloomberg Law with June Grasso from Bloomberg Radio.

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Speaker 1: Please rise, Partners, LD Session Judge C bar Watson, Presiding,

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Speaker 1: Family Card of fiftrics, Los Angeles County, nown Session, the

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Speaker 1: Honorable Barbara Monks from Presiding. All right, you've heard it

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Speaker 1: in countless courtroom movies. Everyone in the courtroom rises when

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Speaker 1: the judge walks in. But what happens when it's a

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Speaker 1: virtual courtroom with the judge in one place and the

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Speaker 1: lawyers in another, Well, you end up with shirtless lawyers,

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Speaker 1: barking dogs, and sometimes utter confusion. The need for social

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Speaker 1: distancing means that judges are dealing with problems big, small,

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Speaker 1: and just ridiculous. I've been talking to Patricia Hurtando, Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: Legal reporter, So pat, these are things that law school

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Speaker 1: did not prepare judges and lawyers for. Are most courts

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Speaker 1: using video conferencing now in order to social distance? It

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Speaker 1: seems like the courts, depending on the courts and their style,

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Speaker 1: have used different options. Some are telephone only telephone conferencing

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Speaker 1: so I know some federal courts, for example Brooklyn, Fed

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Speaker 1: and Manhattan said, if you know it's a customary thing,

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Speaker 1: do you do telephone conferences, and the Supreme Court is

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Speaker 1: hearing oral arguments of course over the telephone, not video conferencing.

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Speaker 1: Some states have completely gone video virtual and they're actually

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Speaker 1: having their hearings on a video like a zoom chat,

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Speaker 1: and the state of Texas has put them on YouTube

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Speaker 1: so people can watch it afterwards. Is that civil as

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Speaker 1: well as criminal civil right now? At least for many

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Speaker 1: of them, for example, like adoptions and things like that.

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Speaker 1: Some states have done that and put it on YouTube.

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Speaker 1: Some states want to have wide ranging access for the

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Speaker 1: public because you know, presumably courts are open to the public,

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Speaker 1: but in some actions there's a fear that some people

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Speaker 1: might be basically taping, or say a witness might get

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Speaker 1: access to evidence they should not be privy too. You know,

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Speaker 1: they can't exclude a witness from a virtual courtroom. So

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Speaker 1: sometimes they've actually taken the option of cutting back on

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Speaker 1: that public broadcast part of it so that it remains

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Speaker 1: as if you had a closed courtroom with excluding certain witnesses.

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Speaker 1: It really presents problems you never would have thought of.

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Speaker 1: I know, what's one of the biggest problems that you've

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Speaker 1: heard about. I covered in oral argument for the former

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Speaker 1: head of security basically like the head of Mexico's FBI,

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Speaker 1: and he's the defendant charged in Brooklyn Federal And the

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Speaker 1: judge had a telephone conference where he was hearing a

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Speaker 1: bail application from his lawyers to let him get out,

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Speaker 1: and it's open to the public, and that the court

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Speaker 1: on the docket posted the password to get into the

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Speaker 1: conference call. It's more like a mechanics issue, or housekeeping issue,

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Speaker 1: if you will. The poor magistrate was trying to deal

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Speaker 1: with all these journalists gabbing in the back down and

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Speaker 1: you could hear their commenting, and they didn't put their

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Speaker 1: phones on mute, and finally the magistrate and utter frustration,

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Speaker 1: stopped the proceeding and the courts stenographer said, Judge, I

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Speaker 1: don't hear anything, and then the judge started yelling, and

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Speaker 1: he never gets angry, he's such a mild mannered, lovely guy.

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Speaker 1: He started yelling that because I'm putting everyone on mute.

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Speaker 1: So I think I heard on a conference call. There

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Speaker 1: were sixty people on the conference call. There were only

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Speaker 1: six participants, the judge, probation, the martials, and the defense

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Speaker 1: lawyers and the three prosecutors, So I mean six people

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Speaker 1: were supposed to be the speakers in the court hearing.

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Speaker 1: They would be in the equivalent of the courtroom well,

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Speaker 1: and you could hear this jabbering going on in the background,

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Speaker 1: and someone sounded like they were washing the dishes, and

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Speaker 1: you could hear clanking and gossip being in the background,

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Speaker 1: and the poor magistrate was losing his mind. So it's

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Speaker 1: a logistics is to sometimes. One of my colleagues, Ellen Milligan,

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Speaker 1: in the UK, there was a really just uh influence

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Speaker 1: of bad circumstances that happened in Julian Assange's hearing. You

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Speaker 1: could hear loud coughing in the background. They gave out

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Speaker 1: the wrong number for the bail application, so it turned

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Speaker 1: out to be an office and people kept calling in

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Speaker 1: and the woman got increasingly frustrated because it was the

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Speaker 1: receptionist at a brokerage firm, so she kept getting the

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Speaker 1: wrong numbers and finally they cleared everything up. But it

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Speaker 1: can be a zoo instead of a courtroom, and there's

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Speaker 1: such a high profile case, so we're getting used to

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Speaker 1: the small problems like the fire engines and the dog's barking.

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Speaker 1: Mine has been quiet so far, but shirtless lawyers tell

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Speaker 1: us about that I mean, people forget when they're on

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Speaker 1: video conference. A judge had to tell lawyers that they

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Speaker 1: were not wearing shirts and they should put shirts on.

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Speaker 1: And another hearing, the lawyer was told, apparently with a

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Speaker 1: female lawyer, that she had to get out of bed.

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Speaker 1: You can't do it in the bedroom. What if that's

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Speaker 1: the attie when you go to court, both men and

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Speaker 1: women wear suits to court or something, you know, very professional.

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Speaker 1: What happens in these conferences? Well, sometimes I did cover

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Speaker 1: a hearing where the lawyer asked, He asked the judge

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Speaker 1: on the video conference, if I have my screen open,

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Speaker 1: do I have to stand when you come in? Because

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Speaker 1: all you'll see is my midsection? You know, do I

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Speaker 1: have to all rise? Where can I sit? And the

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Speaker 1: judge said, yes, that's not necessary. Don't worry. You don't

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Speaker 1: have to You don't have to rise. So sometimes it's

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Speaker 1: just like courts are so procedural in these long standing

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Speaker 1: rules that you know, the court systems are very magisterial,

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Speaker 1: and so moving from the courtroom to the kitchen death

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Speaker 1: is a little different. And I think there are people

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Speaker 1: they're you know, the good and the bad of the options.

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Speaker 1: Some judges told me it's basically kept things going in

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Speaker 1: the middle of a pandemic because you couldn't have the

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Speaker 1: whole entire criminal justice system and the regular court system

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Speaker 1: shut down completely. I mean, there's people that need orders

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Speaker 1: of Part Section. Civil matters can get stayed if it's

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Speaker 1: a premiss liability suit. You know, for example, if somebody

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Speaker 1: tripped and sell two years ago because of a broken sidewalk,

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Speaker 1: that's a kind of lawsuit that you can probably put

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Speaker 1: it on hold. But someone needing an order of protection

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Speaker 1: or a criminal defendant getting arrested, do they get bail

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Speaker 1: and how do you handle that bail application? So video

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Speaker 1: conferencing has been like an amazing option. The New York

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Speaker 1: State system literally in two weeks managed to wire u

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Speaker 1: courthouses in all sixty two counties of the state, and

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Speaker 1: Chief Judge Lawrence Mark told me that, you know, this

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Speaker 1: has been an boon in a way to keep things rolling.

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Speaker 1: Do they feel, especially the chief Judge, that this is

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Speaker 1: a line that once crossed, they will not be able

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Speaker 1: to go back where they won't want to go back

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Speaker 1: to the always? I think it depends on who you're

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Speaker 1: talking to and what kind of court system you're talking to.

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Speaker 1: In some states, there was a webinar that the state

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Speaker 1: of Texas had a lot of court officials two weeks ago,

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Speaker 1: and they were saying, you know, this is going to

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Speaker 1: be fabulous. You'll be able to do adoptions over the internet,

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Speaker 1: and that's an amazing process. New York State, for example,

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Speaker 1: doesn't allow cameras in the courts, so that's not really

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Speaker 1: technically an option. It's it's a good stopgap measure if

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Speaker 1: you're an arrestee and you don't want to have to transport,

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Speaker 1: you know, they think of the cops having to transport

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Speaker 1: that prisoner to the courthouse for an arrangement, sitting with

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Speaker 1: a bunch of other guys who are also possibly arrestees,

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Speaker 1: and they're all in the hold, which you would normally

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Speaker 1: do in a regular process, but doing it video conference

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Speaker 1: from the jail, from the rest the site, getting them arraigned,

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Speaker 1: and then figuring out whether they get bail or not.

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Speaker 1: It's a lot. It's a stopgap measure, but not necessarily

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Speaker 1: a permanent solution. So what they're trying to do now

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Speaker 1: in New York State is everything's been on hold. They've

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Speaker 1: put it basically an embargo against new civil lawsuits, so

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Speaker 1: you don't see the hundreds that you would normally see

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Speaker 1: in New York State being filed. They're going to try.

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Speaker 1: As of last week, they now put a suggestion out

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Speaker 1: to the judges that if you have existing cases and

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Speaker 1: it's are all fully briefed and it's waiting for a

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Speaker 1: final decision from the judge on certain motions like for

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Speaker 1: dismissal in civil suits, go ahead and clear the decks.

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Speaker 1: And if someone is possibly potentially you can work out

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Speaker 1: a guilty plea or some kind of disposition in a

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Speaker 1: criminal case, go ahead and do that. Because judge marks

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Speaker 1: in New York they get three point five million cases

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Speaker 1: filed per year, and you know New New York system

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Speaker 1: is massive, and it's also New York City and New

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Speaker 1: York State is the most heavily affected by the pandemic.

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Speaker 1: So they're worried that when push comes to shove and

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Speaker 1: this is all over, there might be a whole new

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Speaker 1: slew of hundreds and hundreds of cases like the kind

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Speaker 1: we saw in the wake of the financial crisis. I

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Speaker 1: used to cover that courthouse and you would see thousands

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Speaker 1: of lawsuits having to do with deals gone bus bankruptcies.

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Speaker 1: As we discussed Michael Cohen President Trump's former lawyer got

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Speaker 1: an early release because of concerns about the coronavirus in prison.

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Speaker 1: What other high profile defendants have gotten an early release

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Speaker 1: and what are some of the policy concerns even in Brooklyn,

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Speaker 1: fed and in Manhattan said, you're seeing high profiled criminal defendants.

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Speaker 1: So the accused that want to get out immediately. We've

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Speaker 1: also seen the convicted federal salons. So Michael Cohen is

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Speaker 1: one example. There have been others that asked for compassionate release,

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Speaker 1: including zincon A Sorrow. He's on alleged Banano crime family Coppo.

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Speaker 1: He was acquitted in the Lustanza heist. So if you've

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Speaker 1: ever seen the month in the movie Good Fellas, you

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Speaker 1: know they did that multimillion dollar heist at JFK. He

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Speaker 1: was acquitted of that paston, but he was actually convicted

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Speaker 1: of a road rage incident where somebody cut him off

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Speaker 1: and he got an associate to torch the person's car,

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Speaker 1: tracked down the driver and torch the car. He's not

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Speaker 1: compassionate release. Another person who got out is a gentleman

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Speaker 1: named Husse Maria Madin. He was one of the FIFA

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Speaker 1: soccer barons that got convicted in the FIFA soccer scandal.

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Speaker 1: He's aging, and he was senced to four years in prison,

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Speaker 1: but he won compassionate release. So a lot of judges

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Speaker 1: are having to deal with these multiple applications dozens a day,

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Speaker 1: all through the federal court system, and they're having to

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Speaker 1: weigh policy, public policy, health issues, and issues of compassion.

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Speaker 1: I've talked to some former federal prosecutors who say they're

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Speaker 1: a little worried that the pendulum has swung a little

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Speaker 1: too broadly in one direction and that too many people

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Speaker 1: who are probably gaming the system might be getting out.

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Speaker 1: Thanks so much, Pat. That's Patricia heard Otto, Bloomberg Legal reporter.

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Speaker 1: Remember Martin Screlly, the farmer bro, known as much for

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Speaker 1: his antics as for his misdeeds like jacking up the

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Speaker 1: price of a life saving drug by five percent. Well,

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Speaker 1: Screlly has given a federal judge a really unusual reason

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Speaker 1: for releasing him from prison. Early joining me to tell

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Speaker 1: us about it is Patricia Hurtado, Bloomberg Legal reporter. So, Pat,

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Speaker 1: he gave the now common reason of being susceptible to

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Speaker 1: contracting COVID nineteen and then a unique reason. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: like he's antied up his request most of these inmates

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Speaker 1: say they want to get out because they're potentially at

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Speaker 1: risk for developing COVID nineteen or contracting it. And he's

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Speaker 1: saying he could actually get out and maybe find a

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Speaker 1: novel treatment for it to help and find a cure.

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Speaker 1: Is there any proof that he's submitted with his papers

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Speaker 1: that he's actually working on a cure and how I

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Speaker 1: don't know how you work on that from prison. That's

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Speaker 1: a very good question. He submitted a research paper to

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Speaker 1: a drug company. There's an individual in this new drug company,

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Speaker 1: an unindicted co conspirator of his. His lawyers say he's

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Speaker 1: done significant research from prison in developing molecules that can

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Speaker 1: inhibit the coronavirus protein. And they say that one company

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Speaker 1: is prepared to work on a clinical trial just within

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Speaker 1: a matter of weeks if he's allowed to be released

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Speaker 1: from prison. I'm sure they could work on the trial

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Speaker 1: without him being released from prison. But is that sort

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Speaker 1: of being put forth as a quid pro quo? Yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: I mean Screlly called himself a citizen science host. He

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Speaker 1: claims he's self taught, that he taught himself pharmacology reading

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Speaker 1: up at night, and there's no doubt. He's a very

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Speaker 1: intelligent young man, and his lawyers have said if he

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Speaker 1: were released, they define no doubt he could probably find

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Speaker 1: a cure for cancer. But it's unclear how a guy

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Speaker 1: who's staying in a twelve ft twelve ft cell two

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Speaker 1: other roomies in the federal prison could really develop this

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Speaker 1: well enough. It remains to be seeing whether the judge

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Speaker 1: will buy this. He's long advertise himself as this scientist

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Speaker 1: that could help find cures for lots of diseases. During

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Speaker 1: the trial, there were allegations that he bought up the

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Speaker 1: patents for orphan drugs that were basically forgotten and possibly

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Speaker 1: buy up the patents for them and cornered the market

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Speaker 1: on a drug. He did do that with that drug, diaprigum,

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Speaker 1: which he raised the price four thousand percent or so,

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Speaker 1: and he's been accused of cornering the market on this

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Speaker 1: life saving drug and profiting from it. So, I mean,

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Speaker 1: it remains to be seeing how the judge is going

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Speaker 1: to react. He doesn't have a completely thoughtless record when

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Speaker 1: it comes to being selfless. He's already lost a bid

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Speaker 1: to get out of prison from the warden. He's in

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Speaker 1: an federal PRIs in in Pennsylvania, And now he's asking

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Speaker 1: the judge who actually ordered him to prison early a

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Speaker 1: month after his conviction, because he put out a five

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Speaker 1: thousand dollar bounty to his Facebook followers for a strand

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Speaker 1: of Hillary Clinton's hair, and the judge said that pose

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Speaker 1: a threat to Hillary Clinton, Like how do you grab

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Speaker 1: a strand of Hillary Clinton's hair without possibly harming her?

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Speaker 1: So she ordered him immediately jailed after his conviction, and

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Speaker 1: he was moved from a low security camp in New

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Speaker 1: Jersey to this more secure facility that you're talking about

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Speaker 1: in Pennsylvania last year. Why was he moved There was

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Speaker 1: evidence that he was conducting business with a smuggled cell

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Speaker 1: phone in prison, which was a violation. They did an

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Speaker 1: investigation and they moved him. Some people, you know, asked

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Speaker 1: for a record of look at me, I've done good time,

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Speaker 1: I've behaved myself even in prison, and Screlly, you could argue,

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Speaker 1: doesn't have that spotless record. Just to remind us what

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Speaker 1: he was convicted of. It was a very strange trial.

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Speaker 1: He operated his hedge fund called MSMB Capital, and he

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Speaker 1: operated a series of hedge funds and then he decided

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Speaker 1: to morph that into a drug company called retro Fin.

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Speaker 1: The government witnesses testified that basically it morphed into that

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Speaker 1: because he used the money from MSMB to the hedge

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Speaker 1: fund to launch a drug company, and then when the

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Speaker 1: MSMB investors started complaining, he basically took money from one

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Speaker 1: company to pay off the investors in his original hedge funds.

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Speaker 1: And he was convicted of three of eight counts of

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Speaker 1: security spraud for defrauding his investors in the hedge fund

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Speaker 1: as well as manipulating the stock in retro Fen. There

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Speaker 1: have been many early releases, Trump's former lawyer Michael Cohen

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Speaker 1: among them. But how likely is it that Screlly will

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Speaker 1: get out. He's only been in prison about two years

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Speaker 1: and he has about three and a half more years

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Speaker 1: to serve right, It's unclear. I mean, it's a very

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Speaker 1: high standard. They have to show compassionate release. Most of

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Speaker 1: the people that have gotten out, their reasons have been

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Speaker 1: very specific, like a life threatening illness like they suffer

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Speaker 1: from cop D or something like that that puts them

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Speaker 1: at greater risk. He says he has asthma and allergies

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Speaker 1: which put him at greater risk. It's quite a high standard,

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Speaker 1: and the judge has already remanded him because of the

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Speaker 1: Hillary Clinton incident, and then he got in trouble with

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Speaker 1: the smuggled cell phone. He's got excellent lawyers who are

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Speaker 1: making a very good pitch, but it's unclear that it

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Speaker 1: will work. Thanks pat, that's Patricia Hurtado, Bloomberg Legal reporter.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg Law Podcast. You can

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Speaker 1: subscribe and listen to the show on Apple podcast, SoundCloud,

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Speaker 1: and on bloomberg dot com slash podcast. I'm June Brosso.

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Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg