Speaker 1: That element of self compassion that I'm talking about involves
Speaker 1: a lot of patience with yourself and soothing yourself when
Speaker 1: you feel like you're not getting anywhere, and saying, maybe
Speaker 1: this part of my life isn't about getting somewhere. Maybe
Speaker 1: it's about staying still and seeing what comes next.
Speaker 2: Welcome to the One You Feed. Throughout time, great thinkers
Speaker 2: have recognized the importance of the thoughts we have. Quotes
Speaker 2: like garbage in, garbage out, or you are what you think,
Speaker 2: ring true. And yet for many of us, our thoughts
Speaker 2: don't strengthen or empower us. We tend toward negativity, self pity, jealousy,
Speaker 2: or fear. We see what we don't have instead of
Speaker 2: what we do. We think things that hold us back
Speaker 2: and dampen our spirit. But it's not just about thinking
Speaker 2: our actions matter. It takes conscious, consistent and creative effort
Speaker 2: to make a life worth living. This podcast is about
Speaker 2: how other people keep themselves moving in the right direction,
Speaker 2: how they feed.
Speaker 3: Their good wolf. Thanks for joining us. Our guest on
Speaker 3: this episode Isnjua Zabian. She's been a guest on the
Speaker 3: One You Feed podcast before discussing her previous book and
Speaker 3: her incredibly popular TED Talks. Neja is an activist, author, poet,
Speaker 3: educator and speaker, and her new book is the Only Constant,
Speaker 3: A Guide to Embracing Change and Leading an Authentic Life.
Speaker 4: Hi Naduall, welcome to the show.
Speaker 5: Thank you.
Speaker 1: I'm very happy to be speaking to you again today.
Speaker 4: Yes, again, I'm happy to be talking with you. Also,
Speaker 4: we're going to be discussing your latest book, which is
Speaker 4: called The Only Constant, A Guide to Embracing Change and
Speaker 4: Leading an Authentic Life. But before we get into that,
Speaker 4: we'll start in the way that we always do, which
Speaker 4: is with the parable. And in the parable, there's a
Speaker 4: grandparent who's talking with their grandchild and they say, in life,
Speaker 4: there are two wolves inside of us that are always
Speaker 4: at battle. One is a good wolf, which represents things
Speaker 4: like kindness and bravery and love, and the other's a
Speaker 4: bad wolf, which represents things like greed and hatred and fear.
Speaker 4: And the grandchild stops and they think about it for
Speaker 4: a second. They look up at their grandparent and they
Speaker 4: say which one wins, And the grandparent says, the one
Speaker 4: you feed. So I'd like to start off by asking
Speaker 4: you what that parable means to you. In your life
Speaker 4: and in the work that you do.
Speaker 1: It reminds me of the fact that I always have
Speaker 1: a choice. I can't just sit there and say, well,
Speaker 1: I just had to do this without taking responsibility, or
Speaker 1: I just had to come from a place of anger,
Speaker 1: or come from a place of not doing what's in
Speaker 1: my best interest. To me feeding the good wolf, feeding
Speaker 1: the kindness that's within me and the empathy that's within me,
Speaker 1: and the part of me that wants to do what's
Speaker 1: best for myself and for the people around me, that's
Speaker 1: always a choice, just like feeding all the negative and
Speaker 1: dark sides of me is also a choice. Because I
Speaker 1: think for the longest time I blamed my negative emotions
Speaker 1: on others because I'm like, I don't have anything bad
Speaker 1: inside of me. But it's like we all do, and
Speaker 1: it's why do they have to be bad?
Speaker 5: Sometimes?
Speaker 1: Like maybe your anger isn't a bad thing, Maybe healthy
Speaker 1: anger is a beautiful thing.
Speaker 5: Maybe it's a good thing.
Speaker 1: So just thinking about the answer on the spot, I
Speaker 1: think it reminds me of the first word that comes
Speaker 1: to my mind, like I said, is choice and owning
Speaker 1: up to my choices. I used to be very, very
Speaker 1: scared to admit that maybe I followed a negative thought
Speaker 1: or maybe I fell into a pattern that's not good
Speaker 1: for me, because I thought it meant that.
Speaker 5: I was, as a whole a bad person.
Speaker 1: But now I look at it as those are parts
Speaker 1: of me that aren't being heard by me. Maybe they're
Speaker 1: not feeling like I understand where they're coming from, like
Speaker 1: I said, like with anger or with resentment.
Speaker 5: There's this one phase.
Speaker 1: That I went through over the last few years where
Speaker 1: I did things that were so out of character for me,
Speaker 1: or felt so out of character for me, like cutting
Speaker 1: people off completely, and when I would think of why
Speaker 1: I was doing that, there was something inside of me
Speaker 1: that said, well, it's because you're a bad person. So
Speaker 1: diving deeper into that, I understood that there was so
Speaker 1: much pain that I didn't want to deal with it.
Speaker 1: And so for me, the easiest thing to do was
Speaker 1: to say, I just never want to speak to you again.
Speaker 1: I don't want to talk to you again, I don't
Speaker 1: want to explain to you why I did this. And
Speaker 1: to bring I guess the balance between the good side
Speaker 1: and the bad side within me. What I had to
Speaker 1: do was understand that as long as I sat down
Speaker 1: and listened to what was going on and what I
Speaker 1: was tempted to do. Then maybe I could use the
Speaker 1: bad side for good. I could, I could change it
Speaker 1: into something good. And maybe I could use my goodness
Speaker 1: to do things that I thought were bad for me.
Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah, long answer, but yeah.
Speaker 4: You know, sometimes I think the parable would be a
Speaker 4: better story if somehow the good wolf worked with the
Speaker 4: bad wolf and you know, helped the bad wolf find,
Speaker 4: you know, find what the problem was. But that's probably
Speaker 4: a longer story.
Speaker 1: Maybe the bad wolf is just not really bad. Maybe
Speaker 1: it's just a misunderstood part of us, you know.
Speaker 4: So something I'm going to be doing a little more
Speaker 4: often is ask you, the listener, to reflect on what
Speaker 4: you're hearing. We strongly believe that knowledge is power, but
Speaker 4: only if combined with action and integration. So before we
Speaker 4: move on, I'd like to ask you what's coming up
Speaker 4: for you as you listen to this. Are there any
Speaker 4: things you're currently doing or feeding your bad wolf that
Speaker 4: might make sense to remove or any things you could
Speaker 4: do to feed your good wolf that you're not currently doing. So,
Speaker 4: if you have the headspace for it, I'd love if
Speaker 4: you could just pause for a second and ask yourself
Speaker 4: what's one thing I could do today or tonight to
Speaker 4: feed my good wolf. Whatever your thing is, a really
Speaker 4: useful strategy can be having something external, a prompt or
Speaker 4: a friend, or a tool that regularly nudges you back
Speaker 4: towards awareness and intentionality. For the past year, I've been
Speaker 4: sending little good Wolf reminders to some of my friends
Speaker 4: and community members, just quick, little SMS messages two times
Speaker 4: per week that give them a little bit of wisdom
Speaker 4: and remind them to pause for a second and come
Speaker 4: off autopilot. If you want, I can send them to
Speaker 4: you too. I do it totally for free, and people
Speaker 4: seem to really love them. Just drop your information at
Speaker 4: oneufeed dot net slash sms and I can send them
Speaker 4: to you. It's totally free, and if you end up
Speaker 4: not liking the little reminders, you can easily opt out.
Speaker 4: That's one you feed dot net slash sms. And now
Speaker 4: back to the episode. My experience is oftentimes the bad
Speaker 4: Wolf is just an antiquated coping skill that once upon
Speaker 4: a time served a useful purpose but doesn't anymore, and
Speaker 4: it's sort of like just stuck on repeat, you know,
Speaker 4: when it's no longer valuable. I love what you said
Speaker 4: about choice, and I love the way you broke the
Speaker 4: book up, which is all about change, really into two
Speaker 4: broad types of change. Right, there's the change that we
Speaker 4: either slash want to make or no, we think we
Speaker 4: should make it's self initiated change. And then there's the
Speaker 4: change that happens to us that's not really a choice.
Speaker 4: But before we get into that, i'd love to just
Speaker 4: read the first couple sentences the book, because I think
Speaker 4: they're really beautiful. You say. I've always known that change
Speaker 4: is hard, whether it's a change I chose or one
Speaker 4: life chooses for me. I've also known that changes one
Speaker 4: of life's only constants, not just that changes one of
Speaker 4: life's most beautiful truths. Change is what puts life in
Speaker 4: our lives, changes the gateway to authentic transformation. And I
Speaker 4: love that idea that changes what puts life into our lives.
Speaker 4: That's a really beautiful idea.
Speaker 5: Thank you.
Speaker 1: I was going through so much at the time that
Speaker 1: I decided to write The Only Constant, and every part
Speaker 1: of my being was resistant going through those changes. So
Speaker 1: I was approaching the end of my doctorate program, and
Speaker 1: I spent my entire life up to that point in
Speaker 1: school achieving things in a way proving my worth because
Speaker 1: part of my upbringing and my conditioning is you do,
Speaker 1: therefore you are worthy. And through my writing over the
Speaker 1: last few years, I've come to learn on a logical
Speaker 1: level that it's no longer I do, therefore I'm worthy,
Speaker 1: it's I am, therefore I'm worthy. So I knew that
Speaker 1: on a logical level, But now that I was approaching
Speaker 1: the end of my program, like this was my tenth
Speaker 1: year of university alone, I knew that now I was
Speaker 1: going to be living in that way where I didn't
Speaker 1: have to be constantly running a never ending race or
Speaker 1: working towards something where I'm like, I'm going to get
Speaker 1: that title, I'm going to get that achievement. I'm going
Speaker 1: to be seen as I'm such a hard work and
Speaker 1: I've gotten so much done in my life. Now that
Speaker 1: I was going to be living it, I was like,
Speaker 1: how am I going to get through things day by
Speaker 1: day when I don't have something that's like pushing me
Speaker 1: to get stuff done? How am I going to feel
Speaker 1: about myself when I'm no longer achieving, achieving, achieving, and
Speaker 1: now I'm just living and doing what I love, which
Speaker 1: is writing, writing, never feels like work to me. So
Speaker 1: I knew that I was embarking upon a really big
Speaker 1: change in my life, a really big transition. And then
Speaker 1: at that same time, my Grandma passed away. So that
Speaker 1: was obviously a change that I didn't choose and one
Speaker 1: that I never wanted to accept and never wanted to
Speaker 1: be part of my reality. But it happened, and the
Speaker 1: grief that I felt when I got the news, I
Speaker 1: fell to the floor.
Speaker 5: I couldn't believe it.
Speaker 1: I was in so much denial and in so much
Speaker 1: pain at the same time. I don't remember when I
Speaker 1: stopped crying. It was like hours after I found out.
Speaker 1: I think I kept crying for days, and I would stop,
Speaker 1: and then I would start again. And so that grief
Speaker 1: took me on a journey that shook my whole being
Speaker 1: in a way where I reflected on everything in my
Speaker 1: life I had been prioritizing up to that point, and
Speaker 1: telling myself, you really didn't need to prioritize all of
Speaker 1: those things and all of those people, and all of
Speaker 1: those goals over spending time with someone that you love
Speaker 1: so much, over spending time with someone who has unconditional
Speaker 1: love for you, and so going through that grief and
Speaker 1: going through at the same time the transition of moving
Speaker 1: into life after school and hard working my entire life.
Speaker 1: It also got me to reflect on what I want
Speaker 1: my life to be, like, what kind of a life
Speaker 1: do I want to live where one day when I
Speaker 1: look back, I say that was the best life that
Speaker 1: I could have lived. And to me, the best life
Speaker 1: that I could live is an authentic one. So the
Speaker 1: third type of change that I put in there is
Speaker 1: the changes that we need to make in order to
Speaker 1: live an authentic life. So it felt like all of
Speaker 1: these things were happening and I needed to write the
Speaker 1: only constant I needed to write a book about change.
Speaker 1: I knew and understood that even though life may throat
Speaker 1: changes my way that I really don't want. And it
Speaker 1: wasn't just the death of my Grandma that had happened
Speaker 1: in my life that I completely rejected or completely had
Speaker 1: a hard time accepting. It was also back when I
Speaker 1: first applied to my doctorate program. I got rejected the
Speaker 1: first time I applied, and I was told don't even
Speaker 1: bother applying again, because you need ten years of teaching
Speaker 1: experience before you can get accepted. Only twenty people from
Speaker 1: all around the world get accepted, and I was heartbroken.
Speaker 1: But I was twenty two years old and I wanted
Speaker 1: to get my doctorate in a program where every person
Speaker 1: who was there had been an expert in the teaching field,
Speaker 1: and I took that to mean something about myself. Every
Speaker 1: rejection I took, with every job that I applied for
Speaker 1: that I didn't get, every job opportunity that I was
Speaker 1: pushed away from, that I wasn't afforded those opportunities. People
Speaker 1: walked away from me, like friends and people I was
Speaker 1: interested in romantically, and feeling like members of my community
Speaker 1: were displeased with me and just excluded me and family members.
Speaker 1: I had gone through so many of those changes that
Speaker 1: I really struggled with that I really would have never
Speaker 1: chosen for myself, and so I was like, I don't
Speaker 1: think that I fully processed all of those changes. So
Speaker 1: I took it as an opportunity to tap into those
Speaker 1: past stories and experiences to write about how changes the
Speaker 1: fabric of our everyday life. It is what makes life
Speaker 1: what it is. If yourselves don't move around a certain
Speaker 1: way and don't exchange things a certain way without you
Speaker 1: even knowing it's happening. Constantly. If those changes don't happen,
Speaker 1: we wouldn't exist. So changes all around us and all
Speaker 1: within us. And what we have to do is look
Speaker 1: at ourselves in the present moment and say, there isn't
Speaker 1: any other place I would rather be, even though I'm
Speaker 1: currently changing as I'm in this present moment. I don't
Speaker 1: want to run to the future, and I don't want
Speaker 1: to go back to the past and wish things away
Speaker 1: and wish that things were different. I would like to
Speaker 1: accept myself as I am right now and keep moving
Speaker 1: through life.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's always kind of a challenge when we're right
Speaker 4: sort of in the middle of change, right you know,
Speaker 4: whether that change has been forced on us or we're
Speaker 4: trying to change ourselves in the middle of it feels undone.
Speaker 4: I mean, I know, like I've been through situations where
Speaker 4: something in my life I really wanted was gone and
Speaker 4: I was like you, I was bereft, I was in
Speaker 4: a great deal of grief. I even had enough wisdom
Speaker 4: to know that it was going to go somewhere good.
Speaker 4: I know, like, Okay, it's going to get there. I've
Speaker 4: been through this enough to at least be able to
Speaker 4: have that kernel of wisdom take away the grief, but
Speaker 4: there's still that period. I often talk about that phrase
Speaker 4: when one door closes, the other door opens, which is
Speaker 4: a lovely little phrase and probably true. But oftentimes the
Speaker 4: first door closes and there's a period of time before
Speaker 4: the next door opens, and you're in the dark hallway,
Speaker 4: right And I think that's what your book does a
Speaker 4: fair amount of talking about and talking about well, which
Speaker 4: is how to be in that dark hallway and maybe
Speaker 4: reframe it as something other than the dark hallway. My
Speaker 4: metaphor for it is kind of a doesn't sound like
Speaker 4: a great place to be.
Speaker 1: It's an awful place to be in because you can't
Speaker 1: see what's coming next.
Speaker 5: And we love certainty. We love to know.
Speaker 1: That's why movies that don't have a clear ending stick
Speaker 1: in our minds in a different way, because we're like,
Speaker 1: I just want to know what ended up happening. We
Speaker 1: don't like not knowing the ending of a story. We
Speaker 1: don't like not knowing what happens next. It's the way
Speaker 1: that the whole industry works, where at the end of
Speaker 1: an episode they will leave you with a really uncertain event,
Speaker 1: where there's certain you're going to come back next week
Speaker 1: to watch because you want to know what happens. We
Speaker 1: want to know that in our lives too. And I
Speaker 1: love that analogy that you used with the doors, and
Speaker 1: the one that I've been talking about is you have
Speaker 1: to imagine that you're on a foggy road and you
Speaker 1: can only see a meter or two ahead of you.
Speaker 1: You want to see the end of the road and
Speaker 1: where you're headed, but it's literally impossible because you have
Speaker 1: to keep your eyes ahead and make sure that you
Speaker 1: make it through this little bit of fog, and then
Speaker 1: make it through this little bit until you get to
Speaker 1: that end point.
Speaker 5: But what fuels you.
Speaker 1: To get through it is trusting yourself, trusting in your
Speaker 1: ability to get through it, trusting in your ability to
Speaker 1: take a detour to the side and take some rest
Speaker 1: if it gets too bad, and trusting in your ability
Speaker 1: to know when you need to slow down a little
Speaker 1: bit more and speed up a little bit more. So,
Speaker 1: self trust and self compassion as you go on your
Speaker 1: journey of change, as you embrace a new unfamiliar and
Speaker 1: a new uncertain path, those are so important because normally
Speaker 1: we look to others to tell us what to do.
Speaker 1: We look to somebody who we think knows more or
Speaker 1: knows better to tell us what should happen. And the
Speaker 1: truth is, when we do that, we I don't want
Speaker 1: to say we give away all our power. I think
Speaker 1: it comes from a good place of wanting to know
Speaker 1: that you're on the right path. But think of all
Speaker 1: the people in your life who you've trusted to lead
Speaker 1: you to a place where you're happy and content and
Speaker 1: you feel like you belong and you're connected, and they've
Speaker 1: all led you down. Especially if you're listening to this,
Speaker 1: you feel like you're at a point in your life
Speaker 1: where you've been listening to everyone, but there's these changes
Speaker 1: that you really want to choose for yourself, but you
Speaker 1: just don't know where to start. Well, you trusted all
Speaker 1: those people, You've taken risks on them, you can do
Speaker 1: the same for yourself. If you're in that dark hallway,
Speaker 1: you could wait for somebody to come and turn the
Speaker 1: lights on for you, or you could sit in that
Speaker 1: and say, if maybe if I try to turn the
Speaker 1: light on before the time comes, as in, if I
Speaker 1: try to force this new opportunity to come, maybe that's
Speaker 1: not what's meant for me. Maybe there's something better that
Speaker 1: if I wait a little bit more will come. And
Speaker 1: so there's that element of self compassion that I'm talking about.
Speaker 1: Involves a lot of patience with yourself and soothing yourself
Speaker 1: when you feel like you're not getting anywhere, and saying,
Speaker 1: maybe this part of my life isn't about getting somewhere.
Speaker 1: Maybe it's about staying still and seeing what comes next.
Speaker 1: And sometimes, like you said, it's after a door closes
Speaker 1: for a period of time that another one opens. And
Speaker 1: sometimes when that door closes, we linger there in front
Speaker 1: of it for a really long time and say, I
Speaker 1: want you to open again, you know, and maybe there's
Speaker 1: another door opening, but we just see this one. So yeah,
Speaker 1: there's wisdom that will come to us during that period
Speaker 1: of time and in that darkness that's like in between.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And to continue the I don't know if it's
Speaker 4: a metaphor or an analogy.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 4: The other thing sometimes I know I've done is I
Speaker 4: run around banging on every door like just something open
Speaker 4: for crying out loud, right, without really thinking about what's
Speaker 4: best for me. You talk about self trust a fair
Speaker 4: amount in the book, and I want to ask a
Speaker 4: couple questions in regards to that, because I know that
Speaker 4: in my own life there have been times that I
Speaker 4: wasn't particularly trustworthy, and I don't mean to others, I
Speaker 4: mean even to myself and the things that I did,
Speaker 4: And it was actually there have been times in my
Speaker 4: life where following the right people actually turned out to
Speaker 4: be a really good thing for me. I'm primarily thinking
Speaker 4: about things like heroin addiction, for example. Like you know,
Speaker 4: that was not not a period in time where I
Speaker 4: was making good choices right, I was making really bad choices,
Speaker 4: and when I found the right people, it kind of
Speaker 4: gave me a path out. But when you talk about
Speaker 4: self trust, you also say something a phrase that I
Speaker 4: really love, which is to be the leader of your
Speaker 4: own life. And as I was even just saying that
Speaker 4: part right there, I realized that even though I was
Speaker 4: asking others for help, I was still being the leader
Speaker 4: of my life to lead me out of that place.
Speaker 4: So talk more about this idea of being the leader
Speaker 4: of our own life.
Speaker 1: When we think of self leadership and self trust, it's
Speaker 1: very important to look at the real elements of what
Speaker 1: leadership truly looks like. We never look at any leader
Speaker 1: around us and say you have to be one hundred
Speaker 1: percent perfect, one hundred percent of the time, we understand
Speaker 1: that leadership is a very difficult task because it requires
Speaker 1: taking quite a bit of risks. It requires go going
Speaker 1: into the uncertain. That's why we're like, you do it,
Speaker 1: I don't want to do it. So when you think
Speaker 1: of yourself as the person who you're trusting to lead you,
Speaker 1: you have to imagine that there is someone outside of
Speaker 1: you but also within you, who you're saying you are
Speaker 1: so brave and so courageous, and you do all these
Speaker 1: amazing things, and I trust you, and that's really yourself.
Speaker 1: So when you speak to yourself in that way, you
Speaker 1: are motivating yourself through compassion and understanding for how difficult
Speaker 1: this task is. Whatever the change is, maybe you want
Speaker 1: to go into a different career. Maybe you want to
Speaker 1: write a book, maybe you want to start a program
Speaker 1: from scratch that is completely unrelated to what you did
Speaker 1: in school, just like what I did writing. I didn't
Speaker 1: go to school for writing or literature. I went to
Speaker 1: school for.
Speaker 5: Science, and I became a teacher.
Speaker 1: To speak to yourself in a compassionate way and say,
Speaker 1: I know how scary this is, I know how big
Speaker 1: of a risk this is, I know how much energy
Speaker 1: it's going to take out of you to keep moving
Speaker 1: in that direction when you don't really know what the
Speaker 1: end result is going to be. I know that, but
Speaker 1: I'm not going to speak down to you in the
Speaker 1: same shaming voice I used to speak to myself in
Speaker 1: the past, like who do you think you are to
Speaker 1: be able to achieve something like that? You're always a failure,
Speaker 1: you always ruin things. You need people who've gone through
Speaker 1: things to explain to you how to do things. I
Speaker 1: am not going to motivate myself through shame, because, as
Speaker 1: I say in the only constant, what is fueled by
Speaker 1: shame is sustained by shame. So if you fuel your
Speaker 1: change with shaming yourself, you're going to need to continue
Speaker 1: shaming yourself to keep that change or to move forward,
Speaker 1: to evolve that change and let it grow with you
Speaker 1: throughout your life. Who wants that? What's sustained through self compassion? Sorry,
Speaker 1: what's fueled by self compassion is sustained by self compassion,
Speaker 1: And I think that's.
Speaker 5: Just so beautiful.
Speaker 1: So use the approach with yourself that you would use
Speaker 1: with somebody that you truly love and believe in. You
Speaker 1: would never tell your best friend, who the hell do
Speaker 1: you think you are to be able to achieve something
Speaker 1: like that. What do you know about writing a book?
Speaker 1: What do you know about starting a program like that?
Speaker 5: What do you know.
Speaker 1: About going into a program that you have absolutely no experience?
Speaker 1: And what do you know about that? You'd never say
Speaker 1: that to a friend of yours, So why would you
Speaker 1: say that to yourself? And the last thing I say
Speaker 1: with regards to this question is we always want to
Speaker 1: know the end result, and we think that maybe self
Speaker 1: leadership means leading ourselves in a direction that we at
Speaker 1: absolutely no is going to work, But that's not really
Speaker 1: what it is. Sometimes the safety net appears after you jump.
Speaker 1: Sometimes the answer.
Speaker 5: Appears after you ask the question.
Speaker 1: And I know that sounds, you know it's words, But
Speaker 1: sometimes you don't find out what you're supposed to be
Speaker 1: doing until you have the inner courage to say this question.
Speaker 1: This pursuit means that much to me. Therefore, I'm going
Speaker 1: to seek that answer instead of just letting it linger
Speaker 1: inside of me. And I feel stuck every single day
Speaker 1: and I haven't done anything, and I haven't moved anywhere.
Speaker 1: What if the answer appears after I ask the question?
Speaker 1: What if I get to the destination safely after I
Speaker 1: take the leap toward that destination. That's what self trust
Speaker 1: and self leadership are about.
Speaker 4: Sometimes it's like we're standing at the edge of a
Speaker 4: forest and we're looking in and there's a path and
Speaker 4: about you know, five feet down the path, you know,
Speaker 4: makes sort of a hard turn to the right, and
Speaker 4: we really would like to know what's around that corner
Speaker 4: before we get too far down the path. But the
Speaker 4: problem is you'll never see it from where you're standing.
Speaker 4: You can sit there and stand and stare and think
Speaker 4: about it and wonder forever, you'll never see it. But
Speaker 4: if you take a couple of steps, all of a
Speaker 4: sudden you start to be able to see a little
Speaker 4: bit further. It's kind of back to the light through
Speaker 4: the fog.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 4: You just kind of have to be willing to go
Speaker 4: a little ways. And I know, for me, trusting myself
Speaker 4: is often knowing that I don't know now, but I'll
Speaker 4: know more as I go, and I can always sort
Speaker 4: of course correct, I can always sort of change, and
Speaker 4: that if I embark on something as whole a heart
Speaker 4: as I'm capable of. Right, I don't want to say
Speaker 4: a whole heart because it sounds like, you know, we
Speaker 4: don't always have that, But as much as I'm capable of,
Speaker 4: I've also always found those steps, even if it turns
Speaker 4: out to be not the right direction or not the
Speaker 4: right thing, are still valuable learnings that enhance me.
Speaker 5: Absolutely.
Speaker 1: I love everything that you just said, and it reminds
Speaker 1: me of the Alchemist. I actually talked about it, and
Speaker 1: the only constant where the whole lesson is it's not
Speaker 1: about the destination.
Speaker 5: That you're headed to.
Speaker 1: Because the main character ended up exactly where he started,
Speaker 1: but doesn't mean that he was the exact same person. No,
Speaker 1: he was completely changed. His perspective on life and what
Speaker 1: really matters in it really changed. On your journey toward
Speaker 1: whatever that change is, you will learn to see things differently.
Speaker 1: You will learn to see yourself differently. You will learn
Speaker 1: about capabilities that you never thought you had, and you
Speaker 1: will show yourself an action that everything that scared you,
Speaker 1: the fear of exposure, the fear of actually speaking up,
Speaker 1: the fear of contributing an idea, the fear of trying
Speaker 1: something new, those were all things that were just holding
Speaker 1: you back, and you were more than capable of navigating
Speaker 1: through them. So the destination itself might not change. But
Speaker 1: the journey that you went on to maybe come back
Speaker 1: to the exact same place that you were at to
Speaker 1: begin with, that journey makes you someone who sees that
Speaker 1: place that you were in in a much different way.
Speaker 5: You gain a different.
Speaker 1: Appreciation for your life and for the people around you
Speaker 1: and for who you are, and you gain more perspective
Speaker 1: on what are the things that really do mean something
Speaker 1: to me? So you have to look at the growth
Speaker 1: as a measure of success more than you look at
Speaker 1: where you ended up as a measure of success.
Speaker 4: Absolutely, it makes me think of an old Zen phrase
Speaker 4: that says, in the beginning, mountains or mountains and rivers
Speaker 4: or rivers. Later on, mountains are not mountains, and rivers
Speaker 4: are not rivers, and still later mountains or mountains and
Speaker 4: rivers are rivers. Meaning you go through this change, and
Speaker 4: while you're in the change, it's all sort of strange, right,
Speaker 4: But then again, at the end of the day, you
Speaker 4: know the mountains are still mountains and rivers or rivers,
Speaker 4: but obviously your relationship to them is very, very different
Speaker 4: at that point.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, I love that so much, and the fact that
Speaker 1: there's mountains in there, because, as you know, one of
Speaker 1: my most well known quotes is these mountains that you
Speaker 1: are carrying, you were only supposed to climb. And it's
Speaker 1: like the definition of a mountain changed for me based
Speaker 1: on whatever it was that I was going through. A
Speaker 1: mountain at a certain time would have been such a
Speaker 1: heavy weight to carry, like maybe the weight of all
Speaker 1: the past beliefs about myself, and at different times, that
Speaker 1: mountain would be a beautiful goal that I had, like
Speaker 1: to write my first book, or to get a publishing deal,
Speaker 1: or to learn whatever there was to learn about getting
Speaker 1: a publishing deal, to write my dissertation while I was
Speaker 1: in school, like my doctorate program. I was in that
Speaker 1: program for three full years. That was a mountain, but
Speaker 1: it was a beautiful one that I understood. There was
Speaker 1: no jumping from the bottom of the mountain to the top.
Speaker 1: I absolutely had to climb it. I had to get
Speaker 1: through it. I had to be present through every moment
Speaker 1: of it. So that's life. It's all about perspective, and
Speaker 1: it's all about how you look at things and how
Speaker 1: you label them. And I think I think that really
Speaker 1: impacts your ability to get through certain things.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, our perspective is so hugely important. Let's
Speaker 4: talk about something related, which is the idea of resistance.
Speaker 4: And I don't want to talk about resisting changes that
Speaker 4: we don't want. Right. There's changes that come to us
Speaker 4: that we don't want, right, there's a natural amount of resistance,
Speaker 4: and we may talk about that, but I'm really interested
Speaker 4: in the resistance that happens around changes that either we
Speaker 4: say that we want or that we think we should want.
Speaker 4: You know, we know that lots and lots of people
Speaker 4: try and make changes in their life, whether those be
Speaker 4: big changes like you going back to school to get
Speaker 4: a doctorate, whether those be small changes like exercising more
Speaker 4: or meditating, and that there is a lot of people
Speaker 4: not being successful in making those changes. And you know,
Speaker 4: some of it is sort of mundane things like time
Speaker 4: or you know, kids or trying to do too much right,
Speaker 4: but some of it is also some form of internal resistance.
Speaker 4: Share a little bit about what you've learned about that.
Speaker 1: So I've learned that most times when we decide to
Speaker 1: do something, when we decide to change something in our lives,
Speaker 1: if we don't take this step where we ask ourselves,
Speaker 1: do I genuinely want this or do I want it
Speaker 1: because I think that it's going to bring me happiness?
Speaker 1: Or do I want it because I think that it
Speaker 1: would raise my status in the eyes of those around me.
Speaker 1: Maybe I want it because it promises a certain level
Speaker 1: of peace of mind. Do you want it because you
Speaker 1: actually want it?
Speaker 5: Now?
Speaker 1: When I say because you actually want it, I mean
Speaker 1: because authentic you actually wants it, Not the you that
Speaker 1: you've constructed over the years based on how the world
Speaker 1: around you wants you to be, or how you think
Speaker 1: the world around you wants you to be. I mean,
Speaker 1: if you are really truly honest with yourself, do you
Speaker 1: really want to make this change? Because once you can
Speaker 1: be clear on that, then resistance becomes something that you
Speaker 1: look at as this is such a natural part of
Speaker 1: any change. If my body is used to a certain
Speaker 1: kind of routine and a certain kind of comfort zone,
Speaker 1: when I try to push it out of it, of
Speaker 1: course it's going to resist. And that's not an indication
Speaker 1: that something is wrong with this change that I'm making.
Speaker 1: It's just an indication that my body is actually going
Speaker 1: through a change, and resistance is extremely natural. So once
Speaker 1: you're able to look at that resistance as a natural
Speaker 1: human bodily and mental response, you say to yourself I
Speaker 1: feel a little bit of resistance coming up, and I
Speaker 1: understand why it's there, but I can work through it.
Speaker 5: I could push through it.
Speaker 1: The resistance is actually, when you really think about it,
Speaker 1: it's a beautiful thing because it's an indication that you
Speaker 1: are changing, that you are doing something differently, that you
Speaker 1: are inviting something foreign into your life. And of course
Speaker 1: that's something that we want when we're embarking on a
Speaker 1: life that we do want. The whole reason we want
Speaker 1: to make changes in our lives is we are sick
Speaker 1: and tired of living in the exact same way. So
Speaker 1: when you feel this new, unfamiliar, this new uncertain feeling,
Speaker 1: this new like, oh, I've never experienced this before and
Speaker 1: it feels so scary. That's great because that's so different
Speaker 1: from what you've experienced so far. And I've said this
Speaker 1: so many times, but we love things staying the same.
Speaker 1: The reason that resistance comes up is we know how
Speaker 1: to navigate things as they are, and as bad as
Speaker 1: they are, we know how to navigate them. We've adapted
Speaker 1: over the years. We know when we need to be
Speaker 1: quiet and not speak up for ourselves. We know when
Speaker 1: we need to disappear or hide parts of ourselves.
Speaker 5: We know how to navigate them, so better. The devil
Speaker 5: you know.
Speaker 1: And I say, in response to that, why don't you
Speaker 1: say better the angel you don't know better, The peace
Speaker 1: you don't know better, the healthy, authentic love that you
Speaker 1: don't know better, the peace of mind that you don't
Speaker 1: know better, the job that you never thought that you
Speaker 1: could enjoy that you don't know yet. So there's always
Speaker 1: a way to speak to that resistance and tell it
Speaker 1: I know that you are trying to protect me from
Speaker 1: the unknown and the uncertain, so thank you for that.
Speaker 1: But at the same time, look at everything that we've
Speaker 1: experienced so far, and we're not happy. So if we
Speaker 1: want to change something, we're going to have to move
Speaker 1: forward together. So then in a way, you kind of
Speaker 1: befriend that resistance and it stops actually deterring you from
Speaker 1: moving forward and it begins being a sign that you're
Speaker 1: moving in the right direction for yourself.
Speaker 4: So listener, consider this. You're halfway through the episode Integration reminder.
Speaker 4: Remember knowledge is power, but only if combined with action
Speaker 4: and integration. It can be transformative. To take a minute
Speaker 4: to synthesize information rather than just ingesting it in a
Speaker 4: detached way. So let's collectively take a moment to pause
Speaker 4: and reflect. What's your one big insight so far and
Speaker 4: how can you put it into practice in your life? Seriously,
Speaker 4: just take a second, pause the audio and reflect. It
Speaker 4: can be so powerful to have these reminders to stop
Speaker 4: and be present, can't it. If you want to keep
Speaker 4: this momentum going that you built with this little exercise,
Speaker 4: i'd encourage you to get on our Good Wolf Reminders
Speaker 4: SMS list. I'll shoot you two texts a week with
Speaker 4: insightful little prompts and wisdom from podcast guests. They're a
Speaker 4: nice little nudge to stop and be present in your life,
Speaker 4: and they're a helpful way to not get lost in
Speaker 4: the busyness and forget what is important. You can join
Speaker 4: at oneufeed dot net slash sms and if you don't
Speaker 4: like them, you can get off a list really easily.
Speaker 4: So far, there are over one and seventy two others
Speaker 4: from the one you Feed community on the list, and
Speaker 4: we'd love to welcome you as well. So head on
Speaker 4: over to oneufeed dot net slash sms and let's feed
Speaker 4: our good Wolves together. I think that beginning piece of
Speaker 4: getting clear on what you want why you want and
Speaker 4: then even I find you know, there's a step beyond that,
Speaker 4: which is to think through the parts of you that
Speaker 4: aren't sure or you know, in psychology we would call
Speaker 4: them competing commitments. What are your competing commitments? Right like, well,
Speaker 4: I want to eat better because I want to be
Speaker 4: healthier and have more energy. Well, you've got a competing commitment,
Speaker 4: which is I want to eat delicious food, right like,
Speaker 4: that is going to be there. And so if we
Speaker 4: can think about those things and recognize them in the
Speaker 4: beginning and think about how to work with them, it
Speaker 4: does allow like you said, and I think you said
Speaker 4: it really beautifully. Once I go through that, I can
Speaker 4: look at resistance as a natural part of change and
Speaker 4: not as a sign I'm doing the wrong thing. And
Speaker 4: that's often what happens is we second guess our changes
Speaker 4: again and again because these competing commitments come up. We
Speaker 4: get sort of confused inside, We're not sure we want
Speaker 4: to do it, and then we start to doubt the
Speaker 4: whole enterprise.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, I think of this thought just came to me
Speaker 1: right now. When you're doing resistance training, that resistance hurts, yep,
Speaker 1: you know, the longer you are exercising, the more difficult
Speaker 1: it becomes to like get through it, but you know,
Speaker 1: it means that it's working. So it's the same thing
Speaker 1: when it comes to causing any kind of change in
Speaker 1: our lives. And I think it also ties to resilience,
Speaker 1: which I also talk about in The Only Constant, And
Speaker 1: for me, a mind blowing way of thinking about resilience
Speaker 1: was maybe resilience isn't about being able to snap back
Speaker 1: into your normal or to snap back into your life
Speaker 1: the way that it was before. Maybe resilience is about
Speaker 1: snapping forward into the life that actually carries the change
Speaker 1: that you went through and everything that you learned from it.
Speaker 1: Because I always thought resilience means I'm able to go
Speaker 1: back to the person I was before the event that
Speaker 1: maybe happened in my life that I didn't want to happen.
Speaker 1: And I know now we're going back to talking about
Speaker 1: changes that we don't want. But I think it hies
Speaker 1: in a way to resistance, because we resist changes that
Speaker 1: we want to go for because of the fear of
Speaker 1: the identity that we're also leaving behind. So when I
Speaker 1: think about resilience, I'm like, we've mistaken resilience to mean
Speaker 1: going back to an identity that we held in the past,
Speaker 1: but it's moving forward into an identity that we grew
Speaker 1: into as a result of what we went through. There's
Speaker 1: no point in denying that you went through something, or
Speaker 1: denying your experience by saying I was able to get
Speaker 1: back to exactly the person I was before, you're not.
Speaker 1: You're just hiding it, you're tucking it in somewhere. You're
Speaker 1: pretending like it never happened, or you're saying I'm.
Speaker 5: Too big to feel that. But that's still inside of
Speaker 5: you and it's still waiting to be resolved.
Speaker 4: I may get this wrong, but I think it's right,
Speaker 4: which is that there's a term called alostatic change, you know,
Speaker 4: or alistatic load, which means you don't go back to
Speaker 4: where you were, you actually, you know, move forward from
Speaker 4: that place. You end up in a better place. Used
Speaker 4: a word there called comfort zone. And I wanted to
Speaker 4: key in something that you talk about a number of
Speaker 4: different times in the book. And you know, the first
Speaker 4: place I really noticed is in chapter one where you're
Speaker 4: talking about why change is hard, and you say change
Speaker 4: is hard because we judge ourselves for the choices our
Speaker 4: bodies make. And I think this relates to comfort zone,
Speaker 4: so say more about what you mean there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was a mind blowing change for me once
Speaker 1: I understood that it is not only my mind that
Speaker 1: makes choices, but my body can also make choices. So
Speaker 1: I was in a therapy session and I was talking
Speaker 1: to my therapist about how much at that time I
Speaker 1: had been judging myself for knowing how toxic certain relationships
Speaker 1: were in my life but not ending them. And I
Speaker 1: was like, I know better, why am I choosing to stay?
Speaker 1: And my therapist said, have you considered that maybe your
Speaker 1: body makes choices too? And I was like, I felt
Speaker 1: like I dissociated from myself so much because of how
Speaker 1: powerful that statement was. But at the same time, I
Speaker 1: came into full alignment, like all of a sudden, it
Speaker 1: made sense that it wasn't just the knowledge that I
Speaker 1: had in my mind that I needed to fall back on.
Speaker 5: It was also the knowledge that my body.
Speaker 1: Accumulated over the years since the moment I took my
Speaker 1: first breath. There are certain traumas that are stuff in
Speaker 1: my body that need to be tended to and released.
Speaker 1: My body will act based on its survival mode, so
Speaker 1: maybe yes, in my mind, I knew that I needed
Speaker 1: to end certain things and certain relationships in my life,
Speaker 1: but my body was too terrified to change the environment,
Speaker 1: change that comfort zone, change that survival mode. It's like,
Speaker 1: these are the limits that we had. It's kind of
Speaker 1: like you're living in a cage, and yes, the door
Speaker 1: is open, because the fear beyond your survival mode really
Speaker 1: is imaginary if you're going to look at it in
Speaker 1: a realistic kind of way, but it's not imaginary to
Speaker 1: your body.
Speaker 5: Your body thinks.
Speaker 1: For example, if you were conditioned as a child to
Speaker 1: be quiet when any kind of turmoil or crisis arises,
Speaker 1: that if you were to speak up, you would be
Speaker 1: in trouble or one of your parents would be in
Speaker 1: trouble as a result of your decision. Then over the
Speaker 1: year years, you equate speaking up with danger.
Speaker 5: And so now you're.
Speaker 1: An adult and you know on a logical level that
Speaker 1: you need to speak up, but your body still like
Speaker 1: this is literally terrifying. And that's why, and I'm sure
Speaker 1: so many people can relate to this feeling. You could
Speaker 1: say to yourself, that's it, I'm gonna say something, and
Speaker 1: then the moment you're about to do it, your knees
Speaker 1: lock and your throat goes like scratchy, you can't talk
Speaker 1: anymore and you just feel like you froze, or you
Speaker 1: find yourself running away from the situation. You would rather
Speaker 1: fall into a way of dealing with the discomfort of
Speaker 1: what you were just attempting to do, then to actually
Speaker 1: do the thing, because.
Speaker 5: You're so terrified.
Speaker 1: Your body's like, if we do this, it'll be the
Speaker 1: end of our life. As in, these people that we
Speaker 1: care about so much are going to abandon us, or
Speaker 1: they are going to hurt us, or they are going
Speaker 1: to say something in return that completely.
Speaker 5: Upsets us, so we just go quiet.
Speaker 1: So change is hard because we judge our bodies for
Speaker 1: the choices that they make. Change is hard, in other words,
Speaker 1: because we are not in alignment and in attunement with
Speaker 1: the experiences that our bodies go through. So when you
Speaker 1: say I really want to go through this change and
Speaker 1: then you feel like you're so stuck and you can't
Speaker 1: do it, you start judging yourself for being someone who
Speaker 1: quote unquote is lazy, or someone who doesn't want the
Speaker 1: change badly enough, or someone who's not capable. But those
Speaker 1: aren't truths. What you need from yourself is that attunement
Speaker 1: to go inwards and say, why is it that that
Speaker 1: change scares you so much? And just to give some examples,
Speaker 1: let's say you're making a career change. Let's say you're
Speaker 1: moving to a new Let's say you're ending a relationship
Speaker 1: that you've been in for so long, and you know
Speaker 1: that your family's going to be hard on you, and
Speaker 1: their family's going to be hard on you, and the
Speaker 1: community might be hard on you.
Speaker 5: You know those things, but you really can't stand.
Speaker 1: Being in such a bad place for yourself anymore.
Speaker 5: So you decide one.
Speaker 1: Day that's it, I'm done, And then you're still there
Speaker 1: for a day, for two days, for a whole year,
Speaker 1: for maybe five or ten years after you know that
Speaker 1: you shouldn't be in it, and so you start saying, well,
Speaker 1: something's wrong with me. Clearly, I'm betraying myself. I'm doing
Speaker 1: the wrong thing for myself. That's not what it is.
Speaker 1: So you need to imagine sitting down with yourself like
Speaker 1: you would sit with someone you love, and say what's
Speaker 1: really going on? Like, what's actually scaring you? Why is
Speaker 1: it that your knees lock or buckle? Why is it
Speaker 1: that you feel like your heart is going to be
Speaker 1: ripped out of your chest. Every time that you think
Speaker 1: of walking away, why is it? And your body will
Speaker 1: tell you. It'll give you certain sensations that will help
Speaker 1: you understand and take you back to things that you
Speaker 1: went through that taught you those lessons about yourself.
Speaker 4: That's a really poignant one for me. I was in
Speaker 4: a bad marriage for way longer than I should have been,
Speaker 4: and I think, you know, a huge part of me
Speaker 4: knew that getting out was the right thing, and yet,
Speaker 4: like you said, I was terrified. And what happened is
Speaker 4: and we talked about this a little bit earlier, talking
Speaker 4: about like shame, right, what would happen is I wouldn't
Speaker 4: do it, and so then I would be ashamed of myself,
Speaker 4: and like you said, thinking I'm betraying myself, I'm a coward,
Speaker 4: I'm all that stuff, And that would just add even
Speaker 4: more pain on top of the whole situation. So the
Speaker 4: only thing I could then do was just avoid even
Speaker 4: thinking about ending and just pretend everything was fine, because
Speaker 4: the load of the fear itself, plus the feeling bad
Speaker 4: about myself for not doing it stacked on top was
Speaker 4: just I couldn't face it. One of the things I
Speaker 4: had to learn to do was forgive myself. And this
Speaker 4: is while I was in it, forgive myself for two things.
Speaker 4: One was not being able to figure it out because
Speaker 4: you know, there were children involved. It was not an
Speaker 4: easy decision to make. There was this part of me
Speaker 4: that thought like a man with clear convictions and courage
Speaker 4: would just do this right. But I couldn't seem to
Speaker 4: get clarity, and then I couldn't seem to do anything
Speaker 4: with it, and I had to sort of forgive myself
Speaker 4: and go, you know what, like, this is a really
Speaker 4: difficult situation to figure out, and if it were easy,
Speaker 4: you would have figured it out by now. Absolutely the
Speaker 4: fact that you haven't speaks to how hard it is.
Speaker 4: And that allowed me to do more of what you're
Speaker 4: talking about, which was to actually talk about it with
Speaker 4: other people, to figure out what was so scary to me,
Speaker 4: to actually work on and process it. But it wasn't
Speaker 4: until I had some compassion for myself in the midst
Speaker 4: of it that I was able to do any of
Speaker 4: that work.
Speaker 1: I love that you said all of that, because this
Speaker 1: is practically the whole principle in action that you can't
Speaker 1: shame yourself through a change you absolutely have to self
Speaker 1: compassion your way through a change. And I love that
Speaker 1: you said that, and I'm sorry that you went through that.
Speaker 1: And I can't imagine the kind of inner turmoil that
Speaker 1: you were going through knowing that you were in such
Speaker 1: a bad place, but judging yourself for staying in that
Speaker 1: bad place. It's like a pain on top of a pain.
Speaker 4: Yeah, not the best years of my life.
Speaker 5: No, what was your snapping point? You know?
Speaker 4: Actually there wasn't. What would happen is I would hit
Speaker 4: snapping points where I would get pushed to the edge
Speaker 4: and then I would do something and then it would work.
Speaker 4: Actually it ended up not being a snapping point, And
Speaker 4: the way the whole thing unfolded I never would have
Speaker 4: believed was possible, which was that she and I finally
Speaker 4: were able to have conversations about how this wasn't working
Speaker 4: and how though we valued our children, we each had
Speaker 4: a child from a different marriage, and the children's situations
Speaker 4: on the other side of the family had been a
Speaker 4: little bit chaotic and we were kind of the stability,
Speaker 4: and so, you know, we were able to talk about
Speaker 4: how we valued that for the kids, and we ended
Speaker 4: up saying we're going to stay together till the kids
Speaker 4: graduate from high school. Mean, we're going to live together
Speaker 4: in this house, but our romantic relationship is done, and
Speaker 4: you know, we can see other people if we want,
Speaker 4: but we're going to be co parents. And we were
Speaker 4: able to talk to the kids about it, and the
Speaker 4: whole thing unfolded in some way that I never would
Speaker 4: have thought actually possible.
Speaker 5: Wow.
Speaker 4: So it didn't turn out to be a snapping point.
Speaker 4: It ended up just I don't know how we did it,
Speaker 4: but we managed to find our way into that solution
Speaker 4: and it actually amazingly worked. So, you know, it turned
Speaker 4: out kind of best of both worlds, right because I
Speaker 4: got to preserve the stability that I wanted to for
Speaker 4: the kids and you know some of the things, and
Speaker 4: we got to be the family, which I'd always valued that.
Speaker 4: But she and I once we were able to disengage
Speaker 4: from like we're romantic partners. As soon as we put
Speaker 4: that to bed, it was like everything just got easier.
Speaker 4: It was really strange.
Speaker 5: So the safety net appeared after you jumped.
Speaker 4: Yes, yep, yep.
Speaker 5: Thank you for sharing that with me.
Speaker 4: You're welcome.
Speaker 1: So, reflecting back on that, I'm going to ask you
Speaker 1: a question, what did you do differently when you contemplated
Speaker 1: entering new relationships or maybe you are in one.
Speaker 4: Yeah, oh I am have been for quite some time.
Speaker 4: What did I do differently? I mean I was able
Speaker 4: to overcome some patterns that I had dragged along, you know,
Speaker 4: with me, that are a result of different, you know,
Speaker 4: childhood experiences, where as soon as the relationship would be
Speaker 4: generally good, I would get bored and start thinking I
Speaker 4: wanted to be somewhere else. I wouldn't actually do it,
Speaker 4: but I would be thinking about it, and then I
Speaker 4: would disengage. And so I mean this time I was, like,
Speaker 4: I think, after being in a very contentious and conflict
Speaker 4: ridden relationship, I was able to really appreciate like a
Speaker 4: good relationship in a way that I don't think the
Speaker 4: younger meat could have. And then just a commitment to
Speaker 4: be myself wow as fully as possible all of the time,
Speaker 4: because I found in that relationship that was difficult. But
Speaker 4: even in some of the earlier relationships that I would
Speaker 4: sort of decide I really wanted to be with this person,
Speaker 4: and often they were subtle ways, but they were real ways.
Speaker 4: I contorted myself into the person that would be attractive
Speaker 4: to that person. Of course, then when I wanted to
Speaker 4: uncontort right, things didn't really match up. So I was
Speaker 4: just a lot more focused on like, Okay, I'm going
Speaker 4: to just you know, to the best of my ability,
Speaker 4: be one hundred percent who I am, so that if
Speaker 4: this person is indeed attracted to me, they're attracted to
Speaker 4: the real me, not some you know, best version of me.
Speaker 1: So you weren't willing to trade your authenticity for connection.
Speaker 4: I was not. Gabor Montday has talked about, you know,
Speaker 4: tradeing authenticity for connection, and I think that's a dance
Speaker 4: we're all always sort of negotiating. But I realized where truly, like,
Speaker 4: there were parts of authenticity that I couldn't trade for
Speaker 4: connection because more than anything else, because it simply didn't work,
Speaker 4: meaning it didn't lead to long term connection. It actually
Speaker 4: led to long term strife, you know. And so seeing
Speaker 4: that it wasn't exactly even a trade that you could
Speaker 4: make that would work.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's because you became aware of it. Like
Speaker 1: you said, you gained a different level of appreciation for
Speaker 1: yourself and for what a relationship adds to your life
Speaker 1: or what a partner would add to your life. And
Speaker 1: so like you said, if it was younger you, you
Speaker 1: wouldn't be seeing things the way that you're seeing them now.
Speaker 1: And you had to go through all of that. I mean,
Speaker 1: you didn't have to, but going through all of that
Speaker 1: led you to see yourself and relationships differently right now.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah. As you were asking that and I was
Speaker 4: replying to that, it just made me think of another
Speaker 4: line from your book. You know what kind of what
Speaker 4: you were just pointing to in that last bit there
Speaker 4: was about learning from the difficult things that happened to me,
Speaker 4: or quote unquote learning from my mistakes. And you had
Speaker 4: a line in the book that really struck me, and
Speaker 4: I just want to find it. Oh, here it is.
Speaker 4: I used to believe that a smart person learns from
Speaker 4: other people's mistakes. Say more about that, because on first glance,
Speaker 4: that's a statement that makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I was taught when I was younger that being smart
Speaker 1: meant that I looked at everybody around me and saw
Speaker 1: the things that they did that weren't good, and I
Speaker 1: automatically should know not to do the things that they did.
Speaker 1: And I think that was taught to me to protect
Speaker 1: me from harming myself. Maybe in certain ways, but it
Speaker 1: also deterred me from looking at myself as somebody who
Speaker 1: tries things that might be risky, or somebody who tries
Speaker 1: new things, or somebody who believes in my ability to
Speaker 1: do something that somebody else did but succeed at it.
Speaker 1: So I was always deterred from doing things that I
Speaker 1: wanted to do out of fear of failing and being
Speaker 1: looked at as why would you even try to do
Speaker 1: something like that? You know that that's not the right
Speaker 1: thing to do. So I'll give you the example of
Speaker 1: the time when I started writing. I can't tell you
Speaker 1: the number of people who told me at the time,
Speaker 1: you're so stupid, like you just went to school to
Speaker 1: become a teacher and you're writing, Like you'll never make
Speaker 1: a living off of writing. I even had my very
Speaker 1: first agent, so not the agents that I have the
Speaker 1: right now, they're incredible, but she told me at one point,
Speaker 1: you know, most writers can't make a living off of writing,
Speaker 1: so make sure that you have a job that's stable
Speaker 1: and steady, like, don't think that you're going to make
Speaker 1: it as a writer and be able to make a living.
Speaker 1: And so that all goes back to this whole idea
Speaker 1: that you're supposed to just be logical and not think
Speaker 1: outside the box. Most people who write can't make a
Speaker 1: living out of it. Therefore you fall into that category.
Speaker 1: So you start thinking of the worst possible scenario based
Speaker 1: on other people's experiences. Now, I think that a smart
Speaker 1: person is somebody who tries things. Is somebody who's willing
Speaker 1: to look at one hundred or maybe a thousand people
Speaker 1: who tried for something that really meant something to them
Speaker 1: and it didn't work, and to say, you know what,
Speaker 1: I'm going to try it too. I would like to
Speaker 1: learn from my own mistakes. I would like to fall
Speaker 1: down a few times and develop that resilience and develop
Speaker 1: the ability to not judge myself based on how well
Speaker 1: I achieve a goal or not how well a certain
Speaker 1: change goes on in my life or not. Like having
Speaker 1: that mentality that if I make a mistake, that means
Speaker 1: I'm stupid or I'm dumb, or something's wrong with me
Speaker 1: for not knowing any better before I went for this thing.
Speaker 1: That really cages you into an even smaller cage than
Speaker 1: the one that the limits of your survival mode are.
Speaker 1: It's like, stay in your place, don't try new things,
Speaker 1: just take a path that's been paved by somebody else. Well,
Speaker 1: the only way to have a different life than the
Speaker 1: one that you've lived up to this point, then the
Speaker 1: one that those around you are living, is to do
Speaker 1: something different. And you can't do something different without the
Speaker 1: possibility that it might not work out. But it doesn't
Speaker 1: mean that it won't work out.
Speaker 4: So listener and thinking about all that and the other
Speaker 4: great wisdom from today's episode. If you're going to isolate
Speaker 4: just one top insight that you're taking away, what would
Speaker 4: it be? Not your top ten, not the top five?
Speaker 4: Just one? What is it? Think about it? Got it?
Speaker 1: Now?
Speaker 4: I ask you, what's one tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny little
Speaker 4: thing you can do today to put it in practice?
Speaker 4: Or maybe just take a baby step towards it. Remember,
Speaker 4: little by little, a little becomes a lot. Profound change
Speaker 4: happens as a result of aggregated tiny actions, not massive
Speaker 4: heroic effort. If you're not already on our Good Wolf
Speaker 4: Reminder SMS list, I'd highly recommend it as a tool
Speaker 4: you can leverage to remind you to take those vital
Speaker 4: baby steps forward. You can get on there at oneufeed
Speaker 4: dot net slash sms. It's totally free, and once you're
Speaker 4: on there, I'll send you a couple text messages a
Speaker 4: week with little remind and nudges. Here's what I recently
Speaker 4: shared to give you an idea of the type of
Speaker 4: stuff I send. Keep practicing even if it seems hopeless.
Speaker 4: Don't strive for perfection, aim for consistency, and no matter what,
Speaker 4: keep showing up for yourself. That was a great gem
Speaker 4: from recent guests Light Watkins. And if you're on the
Speaker 4: fence about joining, remember it's totally free and easy to unsubscribe.
Speaker 4: If you want to get in, I'd love to have
Speaker 4: you there. Just go to one feed, dot net, slash
Speaker 4: sms all right back to it. I think that is
Speaker 4: a great place for us to wrap up. I think
Speaker 4: that's a wonderful note to end things on. I'm not
Speaker 4: even going to attempt to resummarize because you said it
Speaker 4: so well, but Naja, thank you so much. I always
Speaker 4: love talking with you. I think change is the only constant,
Speaker 4: and figuring out how to do it well is such
Speaker 4: an important skill and this book is a real help
Speaker 4: in that. And thank you so much for coming on again.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me, and I thoroughly
Speaker 1: enjoyed this conversation, and I hope that every person who
Speaker 1: listens to it walks away feeling like they can change
Speaker 1: their life in whatever way they want.
Speaker 4: That's a beautiful wish.
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