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Speaker 1: The Book of Joe Podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey there, and.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Book of Joe podcast. It's me

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Speaker 1: Tom Berducci with Joe Madden and Joe. We are going

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Speaker 1: to recap one of the greatest Game sevens of the

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Speaker 1: World Series there has ever been. Now listen, it's hard

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Speaker 1: for me to top I'm sure for you Game seven

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Speaker 1: of twenty sixteen. I gotta let the dust settle on

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Speaker 1: this one before I make a final decision which one

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Speaker 1: was quote unquote better.

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Speaker 2: But that's beside the point.

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Speaker 1: We just saw an absolute classic, Dodgers defending their championship

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Speaker 1: with an unbelievable eleven inning game win Game seven.

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Speaker 2: Win.

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Speaker 1: Your quick thoughts, Joe on how the Dodgers won the

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Speaker 1: World Series, Well.

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Speaker 3: The one based on their I think experience. I think

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Speaker 3: they went based on their their ability to remain calm

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Speaker 3: and really crappy situations, and then and then they were

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Speaker 3: the beneficiaries of some really strong baseball luck. And it happens,

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Speaker 3: I mean during the course of a season. I've always

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Speaker 3: referenced baseball luck where a ball stays fair by an

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Speaker 3: inch or six inches or goes ftyle by an inch

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Speaker 3: or six inches. Things you can control that are really,

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Speaker 3: honestly the luck of the draw. Who knows why the

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Speaker 3: baseball gods choose to do those kinds of things. But

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Speaker 3: the plays they made, the double play with the second

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Speaker 3: and third, the base running by Barger, and all the

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Speaker 3: different things, the ball that gets lodged, the great catch

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Speaker 3: by pa has if he's not in that game, I

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Speaker 3: don't think the other center fielder makes that play because

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Speaker 3: I don't think you would have been aggressed as aggressive

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Speaker 3: making that play. And then of course Paul is coming in,

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Speaker 3: like inning in progress, Why wasn't he there from the

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Speaker 3: beginning of the inning? Did somebody remind somebody? Did somebody

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Speaker 3: miss it in the beginning? Did it get caught up

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Speaker 3: with at the end. There's also much little nuance to that.

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Speaker 3: And then the part of it that I like the most,

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Speaker 3: I think was you had at some point in those games,

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Speaker 3: in the latter part of a lot of those games,

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Speaker 3: where managerial intuition took over experience began to become important.

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Speaker 3: The fact that it was off script. Everything went off

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Speaker 3: script everywhere. When you have to piece together that many

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Speaker 3: relief pictures Putney Paaus in the game, all of a

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Speaker 3: suddenly all this stuff is based on baseball acumen.

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Speaker 4: So I really liked that.

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Speaker 3: I think both managers did a really good job filling

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Speaker 3: in the blanks as the game got deeper, based on

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Speaker 3: the fact that theory and reality were not meshing whatsoever.

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Speaker 3: So I think it's I think, and that was part

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Speaker 3: of why I thought everybody really enjoyed it so much.

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Speaker 3: This series, that is, I think it got off script

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Speaker 3: to the point where it became more fluid, natural, and

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Speaker 3: the flexibility was based on people reacting to moments. So

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Speaker 3: I don't even know if that's been talked about a

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Speaker 3: reported upon, but that was my take on it. So anyway,

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Speaker 3: that's what I saw, man, and I think that's why

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Speaker 3: so interesting entertaining. And from the Canadian perspective, my god,

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Speaker 3: you talk about crushing the world. Series was in hand

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Speaker 3: several times they just snatched the way and you know,

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Speaker 3: the Canadian people, very proud group, very just nice, nice

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Speaker 3: people that are went home and the heart and the

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Speaker 3: hand and it was really difficult to watch all that.

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Speaker 3: So it was just it was chock full of so

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Speaker 3: many different things. I thought. Overall, I thought the Blue

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Speaker 3: Jays outplayed the Dodgers in a seven game series but

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Speaker 3: lost the World Series.

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Speaker 1: One hundred percent. I agree with you. They certainly out

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Speaker 1: hit and outplayed the Dodgers. The Dodgers hit what two

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Speaker 1: six in the series. They struck out a World Series

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Speaker 1: record seventy two times. But they did hit more home

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Speaker 1: runs and it really was a difference in the game.

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Speaker 1: They hit five home runs from the seventh inning on

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Speaker 1: that were series deciding home runs, you know, starting with

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Speaker 1: show Hey Otani in Game three, Freddy Freeman to win

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Speaker 1: that game in eight team with a home run, and

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Speaker 1: then of course the two home runs tying and winning

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Speaker 1: home runs in Game seven.

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Speaker 2: One swing of the bat.

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Speaker 1: I hate to say it, because we all loved watching

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Speaker 1: the Toronto Blue Jays play offensive baseball.

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Speaker 2: It was a thrill watching that team, and I agree

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Speaker 2: with you, Joe.

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Speaker 1: You have to feel for the team, the franchise, the

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Speaker 1: country for the gut punch they took losing that series.

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Speaker 2: But man, they gave us an unbelievable show.

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Speaker 1: What was so amazing about this World Series, and especially

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Speaker 1: Game seven, is that there are so many pivot points, Joe,

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Speaker 1: where it could have gone either way. It's not like

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Speaker 1: there was one swing of emotions, one pivot where the

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Speaker 1: game was won or lost.

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Speaker 2: It seesawed. Yo, yo, we call it whatever you want,

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Speaker 2: back and forth. How about this.

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Speaker 1: It take every play in World Series history, and there's

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Speaker 1: something called championship win probability added. That sounds like a

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Speaker 1: fancy number of bogus number, but what basically does is

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Speaker 1: it measures the swing in the game depending on the

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Speaker 1: result of that play, basically how clutch or important that

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Speaker 1: play was. There were three plays in Game seven alone

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Speaker 1: that rank among the top ten win probably added plays

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Speaker 1: in World Series history. No other game in any World

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Speaker 1: Series has more than two three top ten plays in

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Speaker 1: the history of the World Series, which has been around

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Speaker 1: one hundred and twenty one years.

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Speaker 2: That is crazy.

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Speaker 1: Those three plays, of course, the game ending double play

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Speaker 1: by Alejandro Kirk, the game tying home run by Miguel

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Speaker 1: Rojas to the ninth inning, and the game winning home

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Speaker 1: run by Will Smith in the eleventh. We'll get into

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Speaker 1: all of those, but Joe, we have to start with

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Speaker 1: the base running play.

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Speaker 2: The world is talking about.

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Speaker 1: Isaiah Kiner Fileffa on third base, bases loaded, one out,

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Speaker 1: bottom of the ninth inning.

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Speaker 2: What a situation.

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Speaker 1: The Toronto Blue Jays can win the World Series just

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Speaker 1: get Ikf.

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Speaker 2: In from third base.

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Speaker 1: Dodgers have the infield in Yamamoto on the mound Dalton

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Speaker 1: Bar show.

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Speaker 2: It's a ground ball to Miguel Rojas at second base.

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Speaker 1: He stumbles completes a throw to the plate and barely,

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Speaker 1: I mean so barely they had to go to replay

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Speaker 1: to confirm this call. They get Ikf at the plate.

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Speaker 1: A lot has been said about Ikf's lead, his break, slide,

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Speaker 1: you name it, everything except you know, how he was

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Speaker 1: breathing at third base has been criticized here. I think

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Speaker 1: he's getting far too much criticism. I think he does

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Speaker 1: deserve some criticism. First of all, I'm gonna ask for

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Speaker 1: your take on this, Joe Madden, and then I'll give

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Speaker 1: you mine.

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Speaker 3: Well, I was I saw the overhead replay of the

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Speaker 3: whole thing, and I in the beginning I didn't even

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Speaker 3: realize all this. I saw it in a later moment.

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Speaker 3: I saw the video replay and all the controversy around it.

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Speaker 3: The first thing that stood out to me was the

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Speaker 3: distance that he was off the bag versus the distance

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Speaker 3: the third baseman was off the bag.

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Speaker 4: That is the role of thumb.

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Speaker 3: However, if you get too far off the bag, there

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Speaker 3: in that situation and you got to catch that can throw.

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Speaker 3: There is an opportunity to pick a third out all

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Speaker 3: the under the circumstances, it's hard for a catcher to

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Speaker 3: want to make that throw and possibly throw the ball away.

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Speaker 3: From my perspective, I've always told my guys, if it's

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Speaker 3: the right baseball play to do, go ahead and do it,

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Speaker 3: and if it doesn't work, then it doesn't work. However,

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Speaker 3: under these circumstances, it might be a little bit more

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Speaker 3: difficult to go ahead and attempt to pick up just

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Speaker 3: under the set of circumstances.

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Speaker 4: So that to me was not good, I thought.

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Speaker 3: And then secondly, the secondaryly was non existent, which I

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Speaker 3: couldn't understand.

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Speaker 4: So that's it. I mean, I from.

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Speaker 3: A technical perspective, teaching base running for so many years

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Speaker 3: watching that unfold, there was a couple of things he

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Speaker 3: did not do properly, and yeah, it could have led

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Speaker 3: to the difference between being safe for out. I think

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Speaker 3: it probably would have been more of a safe call

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Speaker 3: had it been more aggressive on telling you if that

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Speaker 3: was Jason Heyward at third or Hovey Bias at third.

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Speaker 3: Kids keep naming guys that I've had, I really think

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Speaker 3: they would have been safe. So that was my take

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Speaker 3: on what I saw.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I went back and I got the data from

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Speaker 1: Major League Baseball player tracking data. So I'm not thumbnailing,

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Speaker 1: you know, rule of thumb here or eyeballing anything here.

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Speaker 2: I'll give you the sheer numbers.

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Speaker 1: Max Munsey was fifteen point two feet away from third base.

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Speaker 1: I believe this is the rule of and I know

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Speaker 1: people talk about, oh, go as far as the third baseman. No,

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Speaker 1: not with less than two outs. I'm sorry. You cannot

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Speaker 1: be doubled off the base. Okay, that's the end of

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Speaker 1: your season. If you're doubled off third base. Essentially you

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Speaker 1: should go three quarters of where the third basement is.

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Speaker 1: Two outs, go ahead and knock yourself out.

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Speaker 2: Go as far as third baseman. Ikf was eight and

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Speaker 2: a half feet off of third base.

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Speaker 1: Now, ideally he should have been eleven almost eleven and

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Speaker 1: a half feet off the bag, because Munsey is fifteen

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Speaker 1: point two feet away, his lead is too short. But again,

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Speaker 1: I think people who are criticizing him for not being

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Speaker 1: as far as the third basement, you're wrong.

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Speaker 2: There's and two outs.

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Speaker 1: We already saw Andre Simenez at a line drive to

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Speaker 1: Muncie at third base. In this series, it can happen,

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Speaker 1: and it can happen at third base. So you've got

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Speaker 1: that secondary lead. I do not want my guy hauling

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Speaker 1: butt down the third base line with less than two

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Speaker 1: outs with a super aggressive lead. Now, all of a sudden,

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Speaker 1: there is a line drive, and that's where you see

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Speaker 1: guys falling their butt, stumble, try to get back and

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Speaker 1: change direction when the momentum is going too hard towards home.

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Speaker 2: I want a controlled secondary lead.

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Speaker 1: I don't want getting out over the first over your

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Speaker 1: front leg so hard that you stumble getting back. I've

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Speaker 1: seen too many guys doubled up that way. Can't blame

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Speaker 1: him for that. Don't tell me he should stand up

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Speaker 1: scoring a run. Show me some kind of video where

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Speaker 1: somebody is standing up scoring a run at home plate

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Speaker 1: on a force play. I've never seen it. I'm not

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Speaker 1: saying it doesn't exist. Guys are not taught that way.

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Speaker 1: You're also taught make sure if there is a play

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Speaker 1: at the plate that you break up a double play,

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Speaker 1: you need to slide there. So the criticism that he

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Speaker 1: should stand up and score that's bogus as well. Now

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Speaker 1: let me go back to the size of the lead.

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Speaker 1: I think this is the one fatal mistake here. Okay,

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Speaker 1: you have to be conservative. If you look at the overhead,

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Speaker 1: it's almost hilarious that Alejandro Kirk at first base and

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Speaker 1: obviously that ren doesn't mean anything literally is on the base.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's little league baseball where you can't take

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Speaker 1: a lead. There's no way he can get doubled up.

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Speaker 1: They overcorrected. Yes, you take a conservative lead in that

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Speaker 1: situation to guard against the line drive. No, you don't

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Speaker 1: go as short as he did. That being said, don't

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Speaker 1: put it all in IKF. Before the pitch is thrown,

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Speaker 1: Carlos Feblis, the third base coach, spoke with IKF about

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Speaker 1: having a short lead, don't get doubled up. And if

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Speaker 1: you watch their cell phone video this from the stands,

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Speaker 1: after the first pitch, Carlos Feblus walks out to the

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Speaker 1: baseline and with his right foot draws a line in

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Speaker 1: the dirt. And that is as far as IKF took

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Speaker 1: his lead. So the criticism for IKF, I think is

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Speaker 1: way overblown. The criticism should be the Jays got too

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Speaker 1: conservative with the lead. He should have been a foot

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Speaker 1: or two easily more and that's the difference between the

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Speaker 1: Jays winning the World Series or not. As one manager

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Speaker 1: told me, that video will be shown in spring training

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Speaker 1: in thirty camps. The difference between winning the World Series

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Speaker 1: are not is that attention to detail. It is that narrow.

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Speaker 2: It is that thin in terms of winning or losing

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Speaker 2: the World Series.

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Speaker 4: No argument, great explanation.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And from my perspective, what is more likely to

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Speaker 3: happen that line drive that takes Muncie to the third

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Speaker 3: base bag or something put on the ground to the

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Speaker 3: rest of the field. I think for me it would

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Speaker 3: have been the ladder. The fact that it might have

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Speaker 3: been moved somewhere other than there. But the points about

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Speaker 3: the line drive the third base, especially with that hitter,

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Speaker 3: is absolutely valid. However, I still I didn't realize you

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Speaker 3: had the measurements, which are great. I still want a

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Speaker 3: better secondary lead. I still want to weight on the

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Speaker 3: right foot. I still want the third base. The runner

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Speaker 3: on third base, they get as close to foul territory

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Speaker 3: as he possibly can, his toes practically on the line.

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Speaker 3: As soon as the ball passes, the hitter gets to

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Speaker 3: the catcher's glove's coming back hard to third base on

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Speaker 3: the fair territory side looking at the third basement. So

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Speaker 3: that's for the potential pickoff. So yeah, there's there's a

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Speaker 3: different factors working right there. I didn't realize that Felis

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Speaker 3: had drawn the line in the sand. I didn't know that.

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Speaker 3: That's kind of interesting. Also, God, you can look at

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Speaker 3: it so many different ways. But your other point about

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Speaker 3: running through home plate, that's I know, somebody suggested just

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Speaker 3: beating the forest.

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Speaker 4: That's no.

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Speaker 3: I agree with you that you're gonna slide right there.

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Speaker 3: And there's the potentiality of breaking up a double play too. There's,

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Speaker 3: like you said, there's so many things here. I just

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Speaker 3: in spring trainings, I'm so I mean, I've been a

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Speaker 3: base running instructor many years and I'm so big on this.

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Speaker 3: We're talking about exactly right now, and the conversation for me,

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Speaker 3: the third base coach is just wired looking in at

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Speaker 3: the third basement, I mean the third basement.

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Speaker 4: He's just wired. As you're taking your lead, he's not

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Speaker 4: necessarily looking at you.

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Speaker 3: He's looking at the third basement for any movement coming

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Speaker 3: towards the bag and the hitter's the third base runners

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Speaker 3: responsibility is to obviously watch the balls that approaches the

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Speaker 3: plate and react accordingly.

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Speaker 4: So a lot of menu tay going on here.

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Speaker 3: Really great discussion, but the biggest part are, or is

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Speaker 3: the little things when I have spring trainings and I

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Speaker 3: run through this. I used to be the instructor specifically

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Speaker 3: for this throughout the Angel minor league system, running instructional

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Speaker 3: league spring trainings, and then when I got to the

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Speaker 3: Rays and the Cubs, I'd have meetings with the coaches.

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Speaker 3: Brian Butterfield will take care of a lot of this

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Speaker 3: and specifically about this stuff because we did. You know

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Speaker 3: right now, the contact play is kind of popular when

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Speaker 3: I was starting this when I came, because it's coming

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Speaker 3: through the Angel organization. We're always into it. Get to

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Speaker 3: the Rays, get to the Cubs, and eventually they're not

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Speaker 3: so keen on the contact play because you know, a

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Speaker 3: couple of guys get thrown, all of a sudden you

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Speaker 3: don't want to do it. Then analytics shifts and all

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Speaker 3: of a sudden it's the right thing to do, especially

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Speaker 3: as a one out play, maybe not so much as

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Speaker 3: zero outplay. Dude, all this stuff is covered covered, and

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Speaker 3: you just told me. Is the fact that the third

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Speaker 3: base coach not only asked him, told him not to

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Speaker 3: exceed that line. They're in Elijah difference possibly between winning

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Speaker 3: and actually losing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, listen, they just over corrected. They did the right thing.

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Speaker 1: You must take a conservative lead with one out.

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Speaker 2: In that situation.

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Speaker 1: Too out a different story, but they just overcorrected to

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Speaker 1: make sure he wasn't doubled up. So if you're getting

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Speaker 1: on IKF, I would say lay off him.

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Speaker 2: He's following instructions here.

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Speaker 1: You're looking for reasons if you want to criticize him

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Speaker 1: for not sliding, that just simply do not apply. Let's

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Speaker 1: take a quick break here, Joe, because I want to

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Speaker 1: talk about the biggest play in the game. According to

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Speaker 1: Championship win Probability added, that was the game ending double play.

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Speaker 1: And I will tell you about a huge mistake that

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Speaker 1: Jays made in that situation.

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Speaker 2: We'll do that right after this. Welcome back to the

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Speaker 2: Book of Joe.

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Speaker 4: All right, Joe.

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Speaker 1: It's first and third, one out, bottom of the eleventh inning.

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Speaker 1: The Jays need one run to extend this game. Addison

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Speaker 1: Barger is the runner run first. The batter is Alejandro Kirk.

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Speaker 1: The pitcher the unbelievable Yeshnobu Yamamoto. It's crazy that this

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Speaker 1: guy is pitching it once again.

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Speaker 2: In this World Series.

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Speaker 1: He basically affected all four Dodger wins, warming up in

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Speaker 1: the bullpenning Game three and pitching in the other three wins.

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Speaker 1: The thing you have to avoid there, we know is

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Speaker 1: Alejandro Kirk hitting into a double play. Now people think

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Speaker 1: double plays happen all the time.

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Speaker 2: They don't.

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Speaker 1: The average when a double play is in order, the

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Speaker 1: average time it actually happens is nine point eight percent

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Speaker 1: of the time. If you put all handro Kirk in

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Speaker 1: the box, who is literally the slowest runner in baseball,

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Speaker 1: it happens almost twice as often, seventeen point eight percent

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Speaker 1: of the time. So you know this is a distinct possibility,

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Speaker 1: which is why yama Moto pitched around Edison Barger. Essentially,

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Speaker 1: it was an intentional walk through four pitches off the plate.

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Speaker 2: Barger took them to get on base.

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Speaker 1: So now all Kirk has to do, essentially, it's hit

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Speaker 1: the ball into the outfield, get the ball up in

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Speaker 1: the air.

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Speaker 2: He's trying to do that. I get it. He hits

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Speaker 2: a ground ball double play on a splitter, by the.

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Speaker 1: Way, is one of only four splitters that Yamamoto threw

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Speaker 1: all year to glove side to a right handed hitter

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Speaker 1: elevated slightly.

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Speaker 2: He just doesn't.

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Speaker 1: He throws all the splitters in the right handers somehow

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Speaker 1: got there, broke the back out of the ground ball.

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Speaker 1: But here's where the Jays went awry. Barger's on first base.

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Speaker 1: You'd know that double player is in an order. Yamamoto

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Speaker 1: is a plus ground ball pitcher. He's well above Major

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Speaker 1: League gt average throwing ground balls. So you got him

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Speaker 1: well above ground ball hitter, well above ground ball pitcher

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Speaker 1: on the mound. You know the double players in order.

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Speaker 1: That ball's on the ground, the series is over. Barger

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Speaker 1: has to run right there. I'm watching Barger take his

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Speaker 1: lead off first base, Joe. It's a short lead, and

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Speaker 1: he's essentially standing up, not showing any inclination that he's

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Speaker 1: even going to run to draw any kind of a throw.

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Speaker 1: And I'll tell you this, if you're Dave Roberts, are

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Speaker 1: you really throwing down the second base in that situation

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Speaker 1: with a tying run on third base? That's your priority

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Speaker 1: is the guy on third? Do you really want your

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Speaker 1: second basement to run and cover second base and open

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Speaker 1: up a hole for Kirk who's a ground ball hitter.

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Speaker 1: And that's how the World Series is tied because you

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Speaker 1: defended the trail runner and not the tying runner.

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Speaker 2: I don't think the Dodgers are thrown through Joe.

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Speaker 1: At the very minimum, Barger has to make a fake

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Speaker 1: break on the first pitch to see how the Dodgers

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Speaker 1: are defending this. And again, I don't think they're covering

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Speaker 1: second base balls mishandled, the tying runs scores, second basement vacates.

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Speaker 1: You're opening a hole for Kirk. I don't think the

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Speaker 1: Dodgers can take that chance. At least give me a

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Speaker 1: break to see what the Dodgers doing here. He's not

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Speaker 1: in any position to even threaten Yamamoto to make a

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Speaker 1: throw to first base. The Dodgers are unconcerned about Barger.

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Speaker 1: How does that happen to me? He's got to at

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Speaker 1: least take a fake break on the first pitch and go.

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Speaker 2: You have to stay out of the double play. What

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Speaker 2: do you think?

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Speaker 3: What else you as soon as you started talking about

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Speaker 3: I started writing my notes. First of all, Yama Moto

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Speaker 3: round ball pitch and number two? What is his time

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Speaker 3: to the plate? Number three? They would and throw to

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Speaker 3: second base anyway. There's no way, So I mean you're

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Speaker 3: right for me on all counts, he must run right there.

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Speaker 3: They did that specifically to set up the double play. Absolutely,

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Speaker 3: as a manager, I'm almost one hundred percent certain certain

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Speaker 3: I would not have thrown through right there.

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Speaker 4: Who was the runner at third base? Do you remember?

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Speaker 4: I'm sure you meant Guerrero of base runner.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm not thrown through right there. I'm eating the

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Speaker 3: ball right there. Eventually I have to play the infield,

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Speaker 3: then I would, but you did set it up. You

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Speaker 3: put him out there the bargain so that the double

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Speaker 3: plays in order ground ball, pitch or slow runner.

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Speaker 4: It all makes sense. That all adds up, no question.

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Speaker 3: But then from the other side of things, just don't

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Speaker 3: give them everything that they want, meaning just sit back

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Speaker 3: and let the ground ball be hit. The percentages are interesting,

398
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Speaker 3: no doubt that they're doubled once this guy is hitting.

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Speaker 3: But everything he talked about is absolutely correct. He should

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Speaker 3: have been running right there. And I do like the

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Speaker 3: fake maybe on the first pitch, just to see if

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Speaker 3: there's coverage or not. Good infielders would know to even

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Speaker 3: deep that if there's got to be a sign like

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Speaker 3: you know, we're not going to cover, but at least

405
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Speaker 3: deak the coverage so that the side doesn't know what's

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Speaker 3: going to happen. But I think your assessments one hundred

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Speaker 3: percent accurate.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think a lot of coaches managers are going

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Speaker 1: to say, we're worried about the line drive double play. Right,

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Speaker 1: you start the runner, Kirk hits the line drive, and

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Speaker 1: the World Series is over.

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Speaker 4: I heard that all the time, right, Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I looked up the numbers on this show first and

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Speaker 1: third situation of the major leagues.

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Speaker 2: There was more than three thousand at bats.

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Speaker 1: Right, The chances of a line drive double play are

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Speaker 1: less than one percent. It's eight tenths of one percent.

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Speaker 1: If you're managing a game.

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Speaker 2: Out of fear of something that happens less.

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Speaker 1: Than one percent of a time, you should not be

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Speaker 1: managing a major league game.

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Speaker 3: Well, I just I already had written what is more

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Speaker 3: likely to happen? We were talking about the distance off

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Speaker 3: third base, the line drive to the third baseman.

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Speaker 4: Or the ball on the ground. Agreed, I mean, what's

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Speaker 4: the most likely had happened when you're coming up. Back

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Speaker 4: in the day, that was a big thing.

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Speaker 3: But you just talked about not starting that runner in

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Speaker 3: that situation. Tool just in case the ball is hit

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Speaker 3: on a line drive, and I'm here to tell you

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Speaker 3: I never subscribed to that theory. I didn't realize the

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Speaker 3: actual percentages. But I would not not start a runner

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Speaker 3: based on the fact I was concerned about the ball

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Speaker 3: being hit on the line drive double play.

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Speaker 4: I'd be more concerned like with that.

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Speaker 3: Part of it would be from the first base runner's perspective.

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Speaker 3: You don't want the first base runner to ever get

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Speaker 3: farther off the bag than the first baseman in case

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Speaker 3: the line drive was hit. So even if he was

440
00:21:14,278 --> 00:21:17,198
Speaker 3: playing behind Kirk, which I probably was, Kirk doesn't get

441
00:21:17,198 --> 00:21:19,518
Speaker 3: off farther than him in case the balls hit back

442
00:21:19,518 --> 00:21:21,558
Speaker 3: towards the bag and he could beat him back to

443
00:21:21,598 --> 00:21:25,318
Speaker 3: the first base bag. That's the one key that you

444
00:21:25,358 --> 00:21:28,998
Speaker 3: would institute right there. But I would really not worry

445
00:21:29,038 --> 00:21:32,918
Speaker 3: about that hardly at all. Actually, and I was working

446
00:21:32,958 --> 00:21:35,718
Speaker 3: would be way more concerned about the momo to ground

447
00:21:35,718 --> 00:21:37,518
Speaker 3: ball because I would have that on my card. That

448
00:21:37,598 --> 00:21:39,958
Speaker 3: was one thing I always kept on my card was

449
00:21:39,998 --> 00:21:43,958
Speaker 3: the percentage of ground ball of the pitcher in general,

450
00:21:43,958 --> 00:21:45,958
Speaker 3: and then that picture versus that hitter. When I was

451
00:21:45,998 --> 00:21:48,438
Speaker 3: with the Kubbies who were able to generate this card,

452
00:21:48,838 --> 00:21:51,998
Speaker 3: that gave me ground ball percentages each guy in the

453
00:21:52,038 --> 00:21:54,958
Speaker 3: batting order versus the pitcher, whether it was a starter

454
00:21:55,398 --> 00:21:57,758
Speaker 3: or somebody that came off the bench.

455
00:21:57,798 --> 00:21:59,598
Speaker 4: I love this thing. I love the ground ball fly

456
00:21:59,718 --> 00:22:00,398
Speaker 4: ball cards.

457
00:22:00,678 --> 00:22:04,878
Speaker 3: I love the card I also had that attempted to

458
00:22:04,878 --> 00:22:08,558
Speaker 3: predict strikeouts and walks versus certain pictures. Love that stuff.

459
00:22:08,838 --> 00:22:10,638
Speaker 3: So all that would have been in play right there.

460
00:22:10,958 --> 00:22:13,598
Speaker 3: And then finally, it's hard ask your catcher to throw

461
00:22:13,638 --> 00:22:17,518
Speaker 3: through right there. Everything's got to be perfect. Everything's got

462
00:22:17,558 --> 00:22:21,078
Speaker 3: to be perfect. You might you might practice that play

463
00:22:21,158 --> 00:22:24,518
Speaker 3: in spring training. Might you will, but you probably have

464
00:22:24,598 --> 00:22:27,158
Speaker 3: not really utilized it all year. So it's really hard

465
00:22:27,198 --> 00:22:30,558
Speaker 3: to put on in that moment, in that situation where

466
00:22:30,638 --> 00:22:32,198
Speaker 3: you haven't really done it all year, and all of

467
00:22:32,238 --> 00:22:34,318
Speaker 3: a sudden you can put it in in the last

468
00:22:34,318 --> 00:22:36,358
Speaker 3: inning of World Series game.

469
00:22:36,558 --> 00:22:37,798
Speaker 4: I doubt that would have happened.

470
00:22:37,918 --> 00:22:39,718
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a pet peeve of mine too, and I

471
00:22:39,758 --> 00:22:42,158
Speaker 1: see it especially in that situation where the runner looks

472
00:22:42,198 --> 00:22:44,678
Speaker 1: like he just dropped anchor. You got to show me

473
00:22:44,718 --> 00:22:47,198
Speaker 1: some aggressiveness, give me some body language that says there

474
00:22:47,238 --> 00:22:48,278
Speaker 1: might be something in play.

475
00:22:48,878 --> 00:22:50,158
Speaker 2: I don't like that at all.

476
00:22:50,838 --> 00:22:53,478
Speaker 1: Speaking of pet peeves, the next play we got to

477
00:22:53,518 --> 00:22:55,478
Speaker 1: talk about, and this is again one of these top

478
00:22:55,798 --> 00:22:59,398
Speaker 1: ten all time World Series swinging plays, is the home

479
00:22:59,478 --> 00:23:01,838
Speaker 1: run by Miguel Rojas the bottom of the ninth inning.

480
00:23:02,238 --> 00:23:05,118
Speaker 1: This is a real pet peeve of mind, Joe. There's

481
00:23:05,158 --> 00:23:06,998
Speaker 1: two outs. The Jays are two outs.

482
00:23:06,798 --> 00:23:08,118
Speaker 2: Away from winning the World Series.

483
00:23:08,198 --> 00:23:11,278
Speaker 1: So you have Rojas number nine, and show Hey Otani

484
00:23:11,318 --> 00:23:14,238
Speaker 1: on deck at number one. Obviously you cannot walk under

485
00:23:14,238 --> 00:23:16,998
Speaker 1: any circumstance, Miguel Rojas. If you walk to the number nine hit,

486
00:23:17,118 --> 00:23:19,638
Speaker 1: or you bring Otani to the plate as a potential

487
00:23:19,718 --> 00:23:22,318
Speaker 1: go ahead run in the ninth inning, there's no way

488
00:23:22,358 --> 00:23:25,638
Speaker 1: that can happen, right, So the count gets the three

489
00:23:25,758 --> 00:23:28,198
Speaker 1: and two Jeff Hoffman, the closer is on the mount.

490
00:23:29,238 --> 00:23:33,798
Speaker 1: My beef here, Joe, is I hate, hate, hate the

491
00:23:33,798 --> 00:23:36,518
Speaker 1: middle velocity breaking ball. When it has to be a

492
00:23:36,558 --> 00:23:39,278
Speaker 1: strike to strike breaking ball on a full count, and

493
00:23:39,318 --> 00:23:42,278
Speaker 1: in this case, it had to be in the strike zone.

494
00:23:42,318 --> 00:23:46,518
Speaker 1: You cannot throw your grade A slider which is strike

495
00:23:46,598 --> 00:23:49,678
Speaker 1: to ball, because you can't afford that he stays off it.

496
00:23:49,758 --> 00:23:52,158
Speaker 1: And it's ball four and now Otani is coming up.

497
00:23:52,438 --> 00:23:56,278
Speaker 1: You must, must, must throw a strike to Miguel Rojas

498
00:23:57,198 --> 00:24:01,158
Speaker 1: and Jeff Hoffman throws a slider, and if you watch

499
00:24:01,198 --> 00:24:03,518
Speaker 1: and you look at the numbers of this slider, it

500
00:24:03,598 --> 00:24:07,318
Speaker 1: was three hundred RPMs down from the first slider he

501
00:24:07,358 --> 00:24:09,278
Speaker 1: threw in the bat, which is a pretty good slider.

502
00:24:09,758 --> 00:24:11,158
Speaker 2: It had way less movement.

503
00:24:11,438 --> 00:24:14,678
Speaker 1: Essentially, it was a hanger because he knows he has

504
00:24:14,718 --> 00:24:17,718
Speaker 1: to throw this in the strikestone. You gave him a cookie.

505
00:24:17,758 --> 00:24:20,798
Speaker 1: The only pitch he could hit out of the ballpark

506
00:24:21,438 --> 00:24:25,878
Speaker 1: was a hanging slider. Mcguil rojas and Jeff Boppin throws

507
00:24:26,158 --> 00:24:30,838
Speaker 1: ninety six Since the middle of September, he had given

508
00:24:30,918 --> 00:24:36,078
Speaker 1: up one hit on his fastball, one hit. Mguil Rojas

509
00:24:36,158 --> 00:24:37,878
Speaker 1: has not hit a home run off a ninety six

510
00:24:37,918 --> 00:24:39,478
Speaker 1: mile an hour fastball.

511
00:24:39,278 --> 00:24:41,038
Speaker 2: In six years.

512
00:24:41,278 --> 00:24:44,678
Speaker 1: He hits two oh seven against the lead velocity, and

513
00:24:44,758 --> 00:24:47,238
Speaker 1: you're throwing him a slider and speeding up his bat,

514
00:24:47,318 --> 00:24:49,998
Speaker 1: and that's how the game is tied. That is an

515
00:24:49,998 --> 00:24:54,118
Speaker 1: all time terrible call. Right back to Dennis Sekresley throwing

516
00:24:54,118 --> 00:24:56,838
Speaker 1: a slider at the Kirk Gibson who could only hit

517
00:24:56,918 --> 00:25:00,078
Speaker 1: slider speed with the injuries that he had. And I've

518
00:25:00,158 --> 00:25:02,718
Speaker 1: checked the data on this, Joe, and it turns out

519
00:25:02,878 --> 00:25:05,318
Speaker 1: that my pet feb is absolute one hundred percent right

520
00:25:05,398 --> 00:25:10,318
Speaker 1: that when you throw a slider in the zone, it's

521
00:25:10,358 --> 00:25:14,718
Speaker 1: a much higher slug percentage with two strikes than a

522
00:25:14,758 --> 00:25:17,238
Speaker 1: fastball in the zone with two strikes.

523
00:25:17,958 --> 00:25:21,198
Speaker 2: Hated the pitch cross the Jay's the World Series.

524
00:25:21,678 --> 00:25:23,718
Speaker 3: When the guy's got a slider speed bat, he's got

525
00:25:23,718 --> 00:25:24,718
Speaker 3: a slider speed bat.

526
00:25:24,798 --> 00:25:26,478
Speaker 4: It's pretty obvious.

527
00:25:26,518 --> 00:25:28,638
Speaker 3: I would imagine part of the game plan there was

528
00:25:28,678 --> 00:25:31,198
Speaker 3: the fact that Rojas would chase a slider.

529
00:25:31,238 --> 00:25:33,598
Speaker 4: Maybe they had some information. I don't know this, I'm

530
00:25:33,638 --> 00:25:33,998
Speaker 4: just a.

531
00:25:33,958 --> 00:25:36,838
Speaker 3: Conjecture based on Like with Hobby, he will chase a

532
00:25:36,878 --> 00:25:38,838
Speaker 3: three to two slider. But you got to get it,

533
00:25:38,878 --> 00:25:40,558
Speaker 3: you know, down in the dirt, down in a way

534
00:25:40,558 --> 00:25:42,118
Speaker 3: out of the zone. It's got to be a strike ball.

535
00:25:42,118 --> 00:25:44,998
Speaker 3: But like you're suggesting, which is accurate, in a full

536
00:25:45,038 --> 00:25:47,678
Speaker 3: count situation with Showy on deck.

537
00:25:47,838 --> 00:25:50,238
Speaker 1: You can't play it exact chase. You can't play for

538
00:25:50,278 --> 00:25:52,998
Speaker 1: a chase. He knows he's got to throw it right

539
00:25:53,038 --> 00:25:55,318
Speaker 1: down the middle, if not down the middle in the zone.

540
00:25:55,358 --> 00:25:55,678
Speaker 4: Aimed it.

541
00:25:55,678 --> 00:25:57,918
Speaker 3: I mean, if it had that lists RPMs, obviously he

542
00:25:58,078 --> 00:26:01,318
Speaker 3: just aimed it. He underestimated what this fella can do

543
00:26:01,358 --> 00:26:05,518
Speaker 3: there's like, you're right, there's so many wow, well different things,

544
00:26:05,558 --> 00:26:08,398
Speaker 3: like I'll take the flip side of it Pedro Strope,

545
00:26:08,398 --> 00:26:11,718
Speaker 3: who I loved. Stropie had like a ninety six ninety

546
00:26:11,758 --> 00:26:14,438
Speaker 3: seven min hour fastball, but the command wasn't great. But

547
00:26:14,478 --> 00:26:18,638
Speaker 3: his slider was like a wipeout slider for his whole career. Now,

548
00:26:18,678 --> 00:26:21,438
Speaker 3: in that situation, for me, if Stropie got beat on

549
00:26:21,478 --> 00:26:24,718
Speaker 3: a slider, I'd have been a lot better off or

550
00:26:24,758 --> 00:26:27,118
Speaker 3: felt better about it than getting beat on a fastball,

551
00:26:27,158 --> 00:26:29,838
Speaker 3: because I saw that happen with him so much, because

552
00:26:29,998 --> 00:26:33,558
Speaker 3: slider was his best pitch, it was his fastball. So

553
00:26:33,598 --> 00:26:37,118
Speaker 3: there's times I might disagree with that based on who

554
00:26:37,118 --> 00:26:41,318
Speaker 3: the picture is and me knowing them, But you're right,

555
00:26:41,358 --> 00:26:43,758
Speaker 3: I mean to speed up this guy's bat, and of

556
00:26:43,758 --> 00:26:45,918
Speaker 3: course you have the information regarding the last time he

557
00:26:45,998 --> 00:26:49,238
Speaker 3: hit a plus plus fastball had been a while, and

558
00:26:49,278 --> 00:26:51,798
Speaker 3: that was his only opportunity to be able to catch up.

559
00:26:51,958 --> 00:26:54,598
Speaker 3: Because when you do that, when you choose a pitch

560
00:26:54,718 --> 00:26:57,758
Speaker 3: and you're standing on the sideline and you know, like

561
00:26:57,838 --> 00:26:59,958
Speaker 3: you're suggesting, is the only pitch he was going to

562
00:26:59,998 --> 00:27:02,478
Speaker 3: be able to do that with. And that's what they

563
00:27:02,518 --> 00:27:05,918
Speaker 3: threw him. Yeah, that's when you really want to get upset.

564
00:27:06,198 --> 00:27:08,598
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's tough.

565
00:27:08,758 --> 00:27:11,318
Speaker 1: I mean to get not beat, but essentially tied there

566
00:27:11,398 --> 00:27:13,358
Speaker 1: by a guy hitting in the ninth hole. But give

567
00:27:13,438 --> 00:27:16,358
Speaker 1: Dave Roberts credit again, Joe and you talked about this,

568
00:27:17,038 --> 00:27:20,438
Speaker 1: you know, after Game five he texted Miguel Rojas and

569
00:27:20,478 --> 00:27:23,198
Speaker 1: told him you're in the lineup for game six. Now, mcguil.

570
00:27:23,598 --> 00:27:25,878
Speaker 1: Rojas did not have a hit for thirty one days.

571
00:27:26,078 --> 00:27:28,838
Speaker 1: He essentially was a bench player who was rarely playing.

572
00:27:29,838 --> 00:27:32,558
Speaker 1: But as Dave Roberts explained to me, he said, this

573
00:27:32,638 --> 00:27:35,118
Speaker 1: guy has been such a great teammate and a glue

574
00:27:35,158 --> 00:27:38,158
Speaker 1: guy for us all year long. I was not going

575
00:27:38,198 --> 00:27:40,758
Speaker 1: to lose the World Series without giving him a chance

576
00:27:40,798 --> 00:27:43,558
Speaker 1: to play. I want his energy, I want what he

577
00:27:43,638 --> 00:27:46,438
Speaker 1: means to this team in the lineup. Now, give Dave

578
00:27:46,518 --> 00:27:49,958
Speaker 1: Roberts credit. I think he's been over criticized for basically

579
00:27:50,078 --> 00:27:52,198
Speaker 1: running the team the way the front office wants him

580
00:27:52,238 --> 00:27:54,878
Speaker 1: to run it, which is not true. And he did

581
00:27:54,918 --> 00:27:56,678
Speaker 1: go with his gut here that I got to get

582
00:27:56,718 --> 00:28:00,278
Speaker 1: this guy into the game. Another quick story about Rojas

583
00:28:00,318 --> 00:28:03,358
Speaker 1: for you. I talked with his wife Marianna after the game.

584
00:28:04,038 --> 00:28:07,158
Speaker 1: She talked about how after the Dodgers won the National

585
00:28:07,238 --> 00:28:10,238
Speaker 1: League Championship Series, Miguel Rojas said, my dream has always

586
00:28:10,238 --> 00:28:12,118
Speaker 1: been to hit a home run in the World Series.

587
00:28:12,758 --> 00:28:15,358
Speaker 2: So every day he'd go to the ballpark.

588
00:28:15,118 --> 00:28:16,958
Speaker 1: And Marianna would say, you're going to hit a home

589
00:28:16,998 --> 00:28:18,998
Speaker 1: run today, and he's like, yeah, right, I'm not even

590
00:28:19,078 --> 00:28:24,158
Speaker 1: playing well. Before Game seven, she said, listen, I really

591
00:28:24,238 --> 00:28:27,638
Speaker 1: mean it. I had a vision last night. God came

592
00:28:27,678 --> 00:28:30,598
Speaker 1: to me and I saw your number. The number eleven,

593
00:28:30,878 --> 00:28:32,918
Speaker 1: which has always been his favorite number. He wore it

594
00:28:32,958 --> 00:28:35,198
Speaker 1: in little league, and then when his mom and his

595
00:28:35,358 --> 00:28:38,518
Speaker 1: grandfather who basically was his coach, introduced him to the game,

596
00:28:38,998 --> 00:28:41,878
Speaker 1: passed away within the same week. Back in about three

597
00:28:41,958 --> 00:28:45,998
Speaker 1: years ago, he decided to wear number eleven, his little

598
00:28:46,038 --> 00:28:48,838
Speaker 1: league number, to honor them. Well, he goes to the Dodgers,

599
00:28:48,878 --> 00:28:51,878
Speaker 1: he's eleven, and they signed Roki Sasaki, who says, hey,

600
00:28:51,958 --> 00:28:55,078
Speaker 1: that's my number. And Rojas is such a good guy,

601
00:28:55,118 --> 00:28:56,878
Speaker 1: He's got a ton of service time.

602
00:28:57,198 --> 00:29:00,638
Speaker 2: He gave up his number to a rookie Roki Sasaki.

603
00:29:00,678 --> 00:29:01,678
Speaker 2: That just doesn't happen.

604
00:29:02,278 --> 00:29:04,478
Speaker 1: And then he went back to seventy two, the original

605
00:29:04,558 --> 00:29:06,598
Speaker 1: number with the Dodgers when he was basically a non

606
00:29:06,678 --> 00:29:11,078
Speaker 1: roster guy. Anyway, eleven is his number still, even though

607
00:29:11,118 --> 00:29:13,958
Speaker 1: he doesn't literally wear it with the Dodgers. So when

608
00:29:13,958 --> 00:29:16,318
Speaker 1: he came to the plate in the ninth inning against

609
00:29:16,358 --> 00:29:18,958
Speaker 1: Hoffman with one out, mari Anna looks up at the

610
00:29:19,078 --> 00:29:22,198
Speaker 1: digital clock at Rogers Center and in red numbers, the

611
00:29:22,278 --> 00:29:25,718
Speaker 1: numbers show eleven eleven, and he hads a home run.

612
00:29:26,078 --> 00:29:26,638
Speaker 2: How about that?

613
00:29:28,078 --> 00:29:29,478
Speaker 4: Yeah, you can't make that up.

614
00:29:29,518 --> 00:29:32,598
Speaker 3: I mean, obviously astutely aware of the situation.

615
00:29:32,838 --> 00:29:35,998
Speaker 4: She was that. I love that stuff.

616
00:29:36,038 --> 00:29:38,718
Speaker 3: Listen, eleven eleven is always That's been something for me

617
00:29:38,798 --> 00:29:41,238
Speaker 3: in my past, not because I liked the number eleven,

618
00:29:41,278 --> 00:29:45,398
Speaker 3: but it would pop sometimes in really significant moments. It's interesting.

619
00:29:46,438 --> 00:29:48,958
Speaker 3: I really like this guy as a player. I liked

620
00:29:48,998 --> 00:29:52,718
Speaker 3: him a lot with Florida. I've always thought he was underestimated.

621
00:29:53,598 --> 00:29:55,878
Speaker 3: When the Dodgers acquired him, it did not surprise me

622
00:29:55,918 --> 00:29:57,718
Speaker 3: because they knew Andrew would do his homework of the

623
00:29:57,718 --> 00:29:59,918
Speaker 3: boys there, and eventually they did.

624
00:29:59,958 --> 00:30:01,678
Speaker 4: They picked a winner. They picked out a winner man,

625
00:30:01,718 --> 00:30:02,638
Speaker 4: and that's that.

626
00:30:02,958 --> 00:30:05,638
Speaker 3: He is a perfect example of why when you set

627
00:30:05,678 --> 00:30:08,078
Speaker 3: up your team, if in fact your intent is to

628
00:30:08,118 --> 00:30:10,758
Speaker 3: not only play and participate, but to go to the

629
00:30:10,758 --> 00:30:13,318
Speaker 3: playoffs and then to win the World Series. These are

630
00:30:13,398 --> 00:30:14,878
Speaker 3: the kind of guys that can make the difference.

631
00:30:14,918 --> 00:30:15,918
Speaker 4: I e. David Ross.

632
00:30:15,958 --> 00:30:18,638
Speaker 3: When we had David Ross with the Cubs, and then

633
00:30:19,118 --> 00:30:22,638
Speaker 3: of course uh Theo and Jet picking up Mickey Montero,

634
00:30:23,078 --> 00:30:26,598
Speaker 3: it almost seemed redundant, but both guys were like huge

635
00:30:27,198 --> 00:30:30,878
Speaker 3: and that and that win right there, Johnny Lackey coming

636
00:30:30,958 --> 00:30:32,918
Speaker 3: up late being part of it. Even going back with

637
00:30:32,958 --> 00:30:37,678
Speaker 3: the Rays, the year that the Rays became solvent was

638
00:30:37,758 --> 00:30:40,638
Speaker 3: two thousand and eight, when in the seven the acquisition

639
00:30:40,718 --> 00:30:44,038
Speaker 3: of Troy Percival, Eric Kinski and Cliff Floyd.

640
00:30:44,398 --> 00:30:45,838
Speaker 4: Now you look at that, you go, why, you know,

641
00:30:45,838 --> 00:30:47,438
Speaker 4: why would they do that kind of a thing.

642
00:30:47,878 --> 00:30:49,158
Speaker 3: I'm here to tell you, man, when you get you

643
00:30:49,198 --> 00:30:50,998
Speaker 3: talked to what we talked about the Glue guys and

644
00:30:51,478 --> 00:30:54,238
Speaker 3: what they mean to a group and and just their

645
00:30:54,558 --> 00:30:57,278
Speaker 3: ability to come through in big moments because they've been there,

646
00:30:57,318 --> 00:30:59,398
Speaker 3: done that kind of stuff is not lost on me.

647
00:30:59,518 --> 00:31:00,478
Speaker 4: I love all of that.

648
00:31:00,958 --> 00:31:03,598
Speaker 3: I mean, if I'm going into next season, and I

649
00:31:03,718 --> 00:31:08,198
Speaker 3: really hopefully more teams will consider themselves playoff and World

650
00:31:08,238 --> 00:31:11,038
Speaker 3: Series candidates as opposed to waiting to find out if

651
00:31:11,038 --> 00:31:13,918
Speaker 3: we are or not, and if you do actually believe

652
00:31:13,958 --> 00:31:16,398
Speaker 3: that in advance, you need to get people like this

653
00:31:16,958 --> 00:31:19,398
Speaker 3: on the roster and in the clubhouse. It just can't

654
00:31:19,518 --> 00:31:23,598
Speaker 3: always be chock full of potential and guys that you

655
00:31:23,678 --> 00:31:25,758
Speaker 3: may have developed in a minor leagues that you want

656
00:31:25,798 --> 00:31:28,118
Speaker 3: to see what they look like kind of thing. This

657
00:31:28,198 --> 00:31:31,598
Speaker 3: is all part of winning. Getting guys like Miguel Rojas.

658
00:31:31,998 --> 00:31:34,078
Speaker 3: I'm a big believer in that Pele used to do

659
00:31:34,118 --> 00:31:36,398
Speaker 3: that in the minor leagues. In the minor leagues when

660
00:31:36,438 --> 00:31:38,958
Speaker 3: I ran them in the Angels in the eighties, there

661
00:31:38,958 --> 00:31:41,038
Speaker 3: are certain teams you would want to place a guy

662
00:31:41,118 --> 00:31:43,478
Speaker 3: on that team because there was so many good young players.

663
00:31:43,798 --> 00:31:47,038
Speaker 3: You wanted somebody there with a little bit of baseball wisdom.

664
00:31:47,038 --> 00:31:48,798
Speaker 4: And I'm just talking about like the crash.

665
00:31:49,078 --> 00:31:51,238
Speaker 3: I crashed Davis kind of a dude, and I'm here

666
00:31:51,278 --> 00:31:53,358
Speaker 3: to tell you it mattered to a lot of guys

667
00:31:53,358 --> 00:32:01,118
Speaker 3: in those situations. So analytics data cannot truly identify these people.

668
00:32:01,438 --> 00:32:04,478
Speaker 3: This has got to be done with more a human technique.

669
00:32:04,998 --> 00:32:07,998
Speaker 3: And listen, if I go to spring training, am I'm

670
00:32:08,038 --> 00:32:10,518
Speaker 3: running anything, Man, I'm gonna make sure I got several

671
00:32:10,558 --> 00:32:14,398
Speaker 3: of these dudes there because I know how much they

672
00:32:14,438 --> 00:32:17,598
Speaker 3: could impact the season and the final result.

673
00:32:17,918 --> 00:32:20,398
Speaker 1: Oh well said, And don't forget Rojas was the one

674
00:32:20,398 --> 00:32:23,238
Speaker 1: who made that unbelievable pick on that game ending double

675
00:32:23,278 --> 00:32:25,238
Speaker 1: play in Game six on the throw from Key k

676
00:32:25,358 --> 00:32:28,838
Speaker 1: Hernandez made the throw to save the World Series to

677
00:32:28,958 --> 00:32:32,678
Speaker 1: get ikf out at the plate, barely had another play,

678
00:32:32,758 --> 00:32:37,198
Speaker 1: bare handing a really hard hit, big one hopper. Yeah,

679
00:32:37,318 --> 00:32:39,918
Speaker 1: the glue guy came through for Dave Roberts. I thought

680
00:32:39,918 --> 00:32:42,238
Speaker 1: he had a great series. He moved Will Smith up

681
00:32:42,278 --> 00:32:44,998
Speaker 1: into the two hole because the Jays were walking show

682
00:32:44,998 --> 00:32:47,558
Speaker 1: Hey Otani so much. He actually was putting too much

683
00:32:47,598 --> 00:32:49,558
Speaker 1: pressure on Mookie Betts, and he said, I'm gonna put

684
00:32:49,598 --> 00:32:52,478
Speaker 1: my hottest hitter behind shoe Hey Otani. The one who

685
00:32:52,518 --> 00:32:54,398
Speaker 1: was swinging the bat the best. That was Will Smith.

686
00:32:54,638 --> 00:32:57,038
Speaker 1: He wins the Game of the eleventh. Shane Bieber, playing

687
00:32:57,038 --> 00:33:00,678
Speaker 1: the role of Charles Naggy in nineteen ninety seven, loses

688
00:33:00,718 --> 00:33:02,638
Speaker 1: the game two to oh slider.

689
00:33:02,758 --> 00:33:03,838
Speaker 2: Another hang.

690
00:33:04,118 --> 00:33:06,318
Speaker 1: By the way, all four home runs in that game

691
00:33:06,638 --> 00:33:10,038
Speaker 1: were splitters and sliders. It was a getting back to

692
00:33:10,078 --> 00:33:11,198
Speaker 1: Hoffin for one second.

693
00:33:11,318 --> 00:33:11,678
Speaker 2: Joe.

694
00:33:12,518 --> 00:33:15,718
Speaker 1: The World Series set a record by far the fewest

695
00:33:15,838 --> 00:33:19,878
Speaker 1: percentage of fastballs thrown, it was down under forty two

696
00:33:19,998 --> 00:33:24,118
Speaker 1: percent fastballs. If you go back just twelve years, it

697
00:33:24,238 --> 00:33:25,318
Speaker 1: was sixty.

698
00:33:24,998 --> 00:33:26,318
Speaker 2: One percent fastballs.

699
00:33:26,318 --> 00:33:28,918
Speaker 1: We went from sixty one percent fastballs to forty one

700
00:33:28,918 --> 00:33:32,838
Speaker 1: percent fastballs because everybody's afraid of throwing a fastball because

701
00:33:32,918 --> 00:33:33,958
Speaker 1: fastballs get hit.

702
00:33:34,078 --> 00:33:35,718
Speaker 2: These guys can time a jet engine.

703
00:33:36,198 --> 00:33:39,758
Speaker 1: And everything now is about pitching away from slug and

704
00:33:39,838 --> 00:33:42,438
Speaker 1: if you throw so many secondaries, you're bound to hang one.

705
00:33:43,038 --> 00:33:46,358
Speaker 2: And we saw two actually three.

706
00:33:46,678 --> 00:33:49,998
Speaker 1: You know, Trey Savage hung a splitter to Max Munsey

707
00:33:50,078 --> 00:33:53,318
Speaker 1: to make the score four to three, Hoffmann hung a

708
00:33:53,358 --> 00:33:56,158
Speaker 1: slider to Miguel Rojas to make it four to four,

709
00:33:57,038 --> 00:34:00,518
Speaker 1: and Bieber hung a slider to Will Smith to make

710
00:34:00,518 --> 00:34:01,158
Speaker 1: it five four.

711
00:34:01,438 --> 00:34:02,398
Speaker 2: That's the World Series.

712
00:34:03,118 --> 00:34:04,038
Speaker 4: Yeah, and it's it's.

713
00:34:03,998 --> 00:34:09,718
Speaker 3: Incredible with the proliferation of velocity, right, I mean, you've

714
00:34:09,758 --> 00:34:13,118
Speaker 3: never seen velocity like we have it today, with so

715
00:34:13,158 --> 00:34:15,238
Speaker 3: many coming from so many different areas.

716
00:34:15,358 --> 00:34:16,718
Speaker 4: I mean, I know what you're saying.

717
00:34:16,558 --> 00:34:18,758
Speaker 3: About the velocity fastball is getting hit, but there are

718
00:34:18,798 --> 00:34:21,998
Speaker 3: some guys that don't handle velocity well. And when you

719
00:34:22,038 --> 00:34:24,718
Speaker 3: feed them the breaking ball, you're actually feeding them an

720
00:34:24,718 --> 00:34:27,758
Speaker 3: opportunity to do things like we're talking about. This is

721
00:34:27,798 --> 00:34:30,638
Speaker 3: where I really do like analytics, and where it is

722
00:34:30,758 --> 00:34:33,958
Speaker 3: very strong is the break breaking down of hitters and

723
00:34:33,998 --> 00:34:36,558
Speaker 3: what they can and cannot do. And you already mentioned

724
00:34:36,598 --> 00:34:39,158
Speaker 3: where Rojas had not really caught up to a ninety

725
00:34:39,198 --> 00:34:42,038
Speaker 3: five plus heater in a while. To me, man, that's

726
00:34:42,078 --> 00:34:44,638
Speaker 3: really strong stuff. If I know my guy's got that,

727
00:34:45,118 --> 00:34:46,438
Speaker 3: then maybe the worst thing he's going to do is

728
00:34:46,438 --> 00:34:48,078
Speaker 3: bloop a ball the right field, but it ain't going

729
00:34:48,078 --> 00:34:51,278
Speaker 3: over the fence. It's just it's kind of like a counterintuitive.

730
00:34:51,598 --> 00:34:54,838
Speaker 3: Velocity is way up, I mean, from your starters, from

731
00:34:54,838 --> 00:34:58,078
Speaker 3: your believers, how they maintain it, whatever, and then we're

732
00:34:58,078 --> 00:34:59,998
Speaker 3: going to run away from velocity and we're going to

733
00:35:00,078 --> 00:35:03,078
Speaker 3: go to the to the old breaking ball. Now, I

734
00:35:03,118 --> 00:35:04,718
Speaker 3: know what you said, I hear what you just said,

735
00:35:05,318 --> 00:35:07,678
Speaker 3: and how fastballs get hit. I would like to see

736
00:35:07,798 --> 00:35:11,438
Speaker 3: a per batter breakdown of that specifically too, because there's

737
00:35:11,478 --> 00:35:14,678
Speaker 3: going to be some guys that you think and I need

738
00:35:14,718 --> 00:35:17,638
Speaker 3: to try to full or trick based on there's such

739
00:35:17,678 --> 00:35:20,838
Speaker 3: prolific hitters, but I've seen some really good hitters man

740
00:35:21,038 --> 00:35:24,518
Speaker 3: that if you a well located fastball is not going

741
00:35:24,598 --> 00:35:28,278
Speaker 3: to get crushed like something soft will, especially when it

742
00:35:28,278 --> 00:35:31,678
Speaker 3: comes to pitches down on the zone. Anyhow, There's a

743
00:35:31,678 --> 00:35:34,438
Speaker 3: lot going on there for me because I would sit

744
00:35:34,478 --> 00:35:37,038
Speaker 3: in the dugout and I know what's going on, and

745
00:35:37,078 --> 00:35:38,958
Speaker 3: I watched the hitter swing and I could see where

746
00:35:38,958 --> 00:35:41,438
Speaker 3: this guy is long or slow, late, whatever you want

747
00:35:41,438 --> 00:35:43,278
Speaker 3: to call it, and then we're going to feed him

748
00:35:43,278 --> 00:35:46,598
Speaker 3: something soft, and I want to go crazy. So you

749
00:35:46,718 --> 00:35:49,798
Speaker 3: just would just think with the way fastballs have as

750
00:35:49,838 --> 00:35:52,398
Speaker 3: send it, that that would be the more popular pitch

751
00:35:52,438 --> 00:35:52,838
Speaker 3: of the two.

752
00:35:53,278 --> 00:35:56,878
Speaker 1: Yep, the two lowest fastballs percentages in the World Series

753
00:35:56,878 --> 00:35:59,518
Speaker 1: since two thousand and eight, and really it goes beyond

754
00:35:59,558 --> 00:36:02,758
Speaker 1: that because people were throwing a lot of fastballs way

755
00:36:02,798 --> 00:36:06,038
Speaker 1: before then. The Blue Jay is the lowest, the twenty

756
00:36:06,078 --> 00:36:07,878
Speaker 1: twenty five Dodgers the second lowest.

757
00:36:08,318 --> 00:36:10,158
Speaker 2: They just stayed away from fastballs.

758
00:36:10,558 --> 00:36:12,518
Speaker 1: We're gonna take a quick break on the Book of Joe.

759
00:36:12,718 --> 00:36:15,318
Speaker 1: When we get back Joe, we need to talk about

760
00:36:15,358 --> 00:36:20,598
Speaker 1: Yoshinobu Yamamoto. What lessons can we learn from the MVP

761
00:36:20,918 --> 00:36:23,878
Speaker 1: of the World Series. We'll dive into that right after

762
00:36:23,918 --> 00:36:38,438
Speaker 1: this on the Book of Joe. Welcome back to the

763
00:36:38,438 --> 00:36:41,398
Speaker 1: Book of Joe. How about blink moments for a manager. Joe,

764
00:36:41,398 --> 00:36:44,158
Speaker 1: you're managing a game and your ace comes up to

765
00:36:44,198 --> 00:36:46,878
Speaker 1: you in the course of a seventeen eighteen in game

766
00:36:46,878 --> 00:36:48,358
Speaker 1: and says, I want to pitch out of the bullpen

767
00:36:48,478 --> 00:36:51,358
Speaker 1: after you just throw a complete game two days earlier.

768
00:36:51,998 --> 00:36:54,598
Speaker 1: You have to decide then if you're actually going to

769
00:36:54,598 --> 00:36:57,598
Speaker 1: allow him to do that, because, let's face it, the

770
00:36:57,638 --> 00:37:00,918
Speaker 1: way teams treat pitching these days, and with governors and

771
00:37:01,158 --> 00:37:02,638
Speaker 1: care and extra rest, etc.

772
00:37:02,918 --> 00:37:03,118
Speaker 4: Etc.

773
00:37:03,958 --> 00:37:06,438
Speaker 2: That's not an automatic go ahead and knock yourself out.

774
00:37:07,078 --> 00:37:10,278
Speaker 1: And Dave Roberts did, with the help of Mark Pryor, decide, Okay,

775
00:37:10,318 --> 00:37:12,438
Speaker 1: we're gonna get him up. There was actually a spot

776
00:37:12,478 --> 00:37:15,198
Speaker 1: in the eighteenth inning, the top of the eighteenth inning

777
00:37:15,198 --> 00:37:18,438
Speaker 1: where he wanted to use Yamamoto call down there, and

778
00:37:18,478 --> 00:37:20,278
Speaker 1: the word he got from the bullpen, believe it or not,

779
00:37:20,518 --> 00:37:24,038
Speaker 1: was that his stuff was excellent. They could not believe

780
00:37:24,118 --> 00:37:26,798
Speaker 1: how good his stuff was. But he wasn't quite ready

781
00:37:26,838 --> 00:37:29,558
Speaker 1: yet in terms of being warm, so they passed. But

782
00:37:29,598 --> 00:37:31,198
Speaker 1: he would have been in the game if there was

783
00:37:31,238 --> 00:37:33,798
Speaker 1: a nineteenth inning. But then we get to Game six.

784
00:37:33,878 --> 00:37:36,358
Speaker 1: He pitches ninety throws ninety six pitches in that game,

785
00:37:36,558 --> 00:37:41,198
Speaker 1: threw really well, wins again. Interestingly, after the game, he

786
00:37:41,278 --> 00:37:44,078
Speaker 1: did not celebrate the win. He went to the trainer's

787
00:37:44,238 --> 00:37:48,398
Speaker 1: room and he told the physical trainers, get me ready

788
00:37:48,398 --> 00:37:52,038
Speaker 1: for tomorrow. Let's start working on body recovery. He's already

789
00:37:52,038 --> 00:37:54,438
Speaker 1: thinking about game seven as soon as Game six is over.

790
00:37:54,478 --> 00:37:57,718
Speaker 1: He shows up at the park two o'clock on Saturday,

791
00:37:57,758 --> 00:38:00,718
Speaker 1: the day of Game seven, and he tells Mark Pryor,

792
00:38:00,798 --> 00:38:01,758
Speaker 1: I want to pitch today.

793
00:38:01,798 --> 00:38:04,118
Speaker 2: I'm going to go to the outfield and throw. I'll

794
00:38:04,198 --> 00:38:04,558
Speaker 2: let you know.

795
00:38:04,678 --> 00:38:07,838
Speaker 1: He goes out there, throws flat ground, throws long toss,

796
00:38:08,398 --> 00:38:10,878
Speaker 1: goes to Mark Pryor and says, I'm good. The only

797
00:38:10,958 --> 00:38:12,998
Speaker 1: thing I want is give me enough time to warm up.

798
00:38:13,358 --> 00:38:16,038
Speaker 1: But I can pitch today. I mean, this is crazy,

799
00:38:16,158 --> 00:38:18,678
Speaker 1: coming back after he threw ninety six pitches in game six.

800
00:38:18,718 --> 00:38:21,198
Speaker 2: He's volunteering to pitch in seven, and he.

801
00:38:21,158 --> 00:38:23,958
Speaker 1: Actually thought about it the night before, and of course, yeah,

802
00:38:24,038 --> 00:38:26,438
Speaker 1: he's in the game. And he actually threw more pitches

803
00:38:26,518 --> 00:38:28,878
Speaker 1: in six and seven than Randy Johnson did when he

804
00:38:28,918 --> 00:38:32,198
Speaker 1: did it in one with the Diamondbacks, and his stuff

805
00:38:32,278 --> 00:38:33,918
Speaker 1: was amazing in.

806
00:38:33,878 --> 00:38:34,918
Speaker 2: Game number seven.

807
00:38:35,518 --> 00:38:38,638
Speaker 1: So the will for this guy Joe to go out

808
00:38:38,678 --> 00:38:41,358
Speaker 1: there and want the ball to try to win. Listen,

809
00:38:41,398 --> 00:38:45,278
Speaker 1: He's won championships in Japan, He's won the WBC with Japan.

810
00:38:45,358 --> 00:38:47,438
Speaker 2: He's won two World Series with the Dodgers.

811
00:38:47,718 --> 00:38:50,478
Speaker 1: He's pitched a ton of big games and pitched well

812
00:38:50,558 --> 00:38:54,918
Speaker 1: in them. He's just cut differently besides having a six

813
00:38:54,998 --> 00:38:57,238
Speaker 1: pitch mix and can throw all of them for strikes.

814
00:38:57,838 --> 00:39:00,798
Speaker 1: I think his desire to take the ball and to

815
00:39:00,878 --> 00:39:05,158
Speaker 1: do whatever is necessary for the team and throw pitch

816
00:39:05,278 --> 00:39:08,158
Speaker 1: counts and rest and all these governors out the window

817
00:39:08,798 --> 00:39:10,318
Speaker 1: at this time of year. I'm not saying you do

818
00:39:10,358 --> 00:39:13,878
Speaker 1: that all year long. I think that's a lesson every

819
00:39:14,078 --> 00:39:18,398
Speaker 1: starting pitcher should look at and say, am I doing

820
00:39:18,518 --> 00:39:20,598
Speaker 1: enough to help my team win a championship?

821
00:39:21,358 --> 00:39:22,078
Speaker 4: Yeah? Amen?

822
00:39:22,878 --> 00:39:25,598
Speaker 3: Wow, obviously I was watching it too. First of all,

823
00:39:25,638 --> 00:39:28,998
Speaker 3: he's not that big of a guy. Really, Yeah, that really?

824
00:39:29,078 --> 00:39:34,998
Speaker 3: You know, that's so counterintuitive to any any organization drafting

825
00:39:35,158 --> 00:39:37,958
Speaker 3: signing of trying to develop a five foot ten right hander,

826
00:39:38,598 --> 00:39:41,158
Speaker 3: even left handers anywhere. But that doesn't normally happen. It

827
00:39:41,198 --> 00:39:44,158
Speaker 3: starts right there. So when I see that, the first

828
00:39:44,238 --> 00:39:47,358
Speaker 3: thing I think about is this or his or is

829
00:39:47,398 --> 00:39:51,958
Speaker 3: his training techniques? That's what I would really research, you know,

830
00:39:51,998 --> 00:39:54,078
Speaker 3: he could break down his armstroke, what that looks like,

831
00:39:54,158 --> 00:39:56,558
Speaker 3: and obviously they can do that through different high speed

832
00:39:56,878 --> 00:39:59,438
Speaker 3: camera techniques. But also I would take it beyond that.

833
00:39:59,438 --> 00:40:01,758
Speaker 3: What easy do training wise, I'm here, that's going to

834
00:40:01,798 --> 00:40:05,198
Speaker 3: be popular. I would bet that it's different somehow.

835
00:40:05,518 --> 00:40:08,518
Speaker 1: I stop you there. It is extremely different. Yeah, there's

836
00:40:08,638 --> 00:40:10,518
Speaker 1: no one in the world who trains like this guy.

837
00:40:10,598 --> 00:40:14,358
Speaker 1: I mean he regularly throws javelins, not true javelins, but

838
00:40:14,438 --> 00:40:17,798
Speaker 1: essentially they're javelins that he throws. He's on his own program,

839
00:40:17,838 --> 00:40:20,718
Speaker 1: there's no question about it. And it's interesting. He won

840
00:40:20,798 --> 00:40:24,558
Speaker 1: the Samawara Award basically they're say young and Japan, and

841
00:40:24,598 --> 00:40:28,598
Speaker 1: then before the next season he actually changed his delivery

842
00:40:28,678 --> 00:40:30,878
Speaker 1: to get rid of his high lay kick and came

843
00:40:30,958 --> 00:40:33,118
Speaker 1: back with an even better year. And the explanation was,

844
00:40:33,158 --> 00:40:35,998
Speaker 1: I wanted it to be even more efficient his delivery.

845
00:40:36,438 --> 00:40:38,878
Speaker 1: So he trains like nobody else. So you're dead on

846
00:40:39,038 --> 00:40:39,918
Speaker 1: with that observation.

847
00:40:40,318 --> 00:40:40,838
Speaker 4: Yeah, I would.

848
00:40:40,838 --> 00:40:43,238
Speaker 3: And then the seat for me the quicker delivery, believe

849
00:40:43,278 --> 00:40:45,558
Speaker 3: it or not, I mean, everybody tries to get more

850
00:40:45,598 --> 00:40:47,678
Speaker 3: out of it by picking a leg up, being slower

851
00:40:47,758 --> 00:40:50,958
Speaker 3: deliver whatever. I think when you have a quickened up

852
00:40:50,958 --> 00:40:53,798
Speaker 3: your delivery a little bit, your flick, your leg gets

853
00:40:53,838 --> 00:40:55,638
Speaker 3: up and he gets down sooner. Thus your arm could

854
00:40:55,638 --> 00:40:58,358
Speaker 3: get through more quickly, and I believe not only a

855
00:40:58,358 --> 00:41:01,518
Speaker 3: better time to the plate, but also a more effective

856
00:41:01,518 --> 00:41:04,198
Speaker 3: delivery regarding throwing strikes and really being able to command

857
00:41:04,238 --> 00:41:05,158
Speaker 3: your fastball better.

858
00:41:05,478 --> 00:41:06,438
Speaker 4: So that's part of it.

859
00:41:06,478 --> 00:41:08,438
Speaker 3: Now back to the training techniques, the fact that he

860
00:41:08,478 --> 00:41:12,958
Speaker 3: did it, and the fact that prior and David we're

861
00:41:12,998 --> 00:41:14,918
Speaker 3: discussing whether to use him or not. I have to

862
00:41:14,918 --> 00:41:18,038
Speaker 3: believe when Leicster was some kind of communication with the

863
00:41:18,038 --> 00:41:21,038
Speaker 3: front office, somebody passed out in the in the in

864
00:41:21,078 --> 00:41:23,478
Speaker 3: the front office suite when they saw this dude get

865
00:41:23,558 --> 00:41:26,438
Speaker 3: up and started to somebody had to be revived at

866
00:41:26,438 --> 00:41:29,438
Speaker 3: that point, I think. So I'd be curious about that

867
00:41:29,758 --> 00:41:33,558
Speaker 3: and how much that was connected with other people regarding

868
00:41:33,598 --> 00:41:36,998
Speaker 3: the usage of him at that moment. But I agreed,

869
00:41:37,158 --> 00:41:40,198
Speaker 3: these are the kind of tectonic shifts where when a

870
00:41:40,238 --> 00:41:44,518
Speaker 3: guy does something like this, this can resonate through other groups.

871
00:41:44,558 --> 00:41:47,558
Speaker 3: And we're talking starting pitching specifically right near which I

872
00:41:47,558 --> 00:41:49,558
Speaker 3: agree to me has been.

873
00:41:49,398 --> 00:41:52,118
Speaker 4: Totally nurtured in the incorrect way.

874
00:41:52,718 --> 00:41:56,078
Speaker 3: The fact that this guy is showing you what is

875
00:41:56,198 --> 00:41:59,118
Speaker 3: possible if in fact you kind of maybe even push

876
00:41:59,198 --> 00:42:02,478
Speaker 3: these guys a little bit, maybe connected to this or not.

877
00:42:02,638 --> 00:42:04,398
Speaker 4: One of the things that I've been thinking thinking about

878
00:42:04,438 --> 00:42:04,838
Speaker 4: a lot.

879
00:42:05,518 --> 00:42:07,918
Speaker 3: Even though there's a watered down version of the minor leagues,

880
00:42:08,118 --> 00:42:10,878
Speaker 3: the way it's set up, anymore than numbers involved, I

881
00:42:10,918 --> 00:42:13,398
Speaker 3: would go the opposite way in the minor leagues regarding,

882
00:42:13,518 --> 00:42:16,918
Speaker 3: you know, watching how many pitches a guy throws, how

883
00:42:16,918 --> 00:42:21,118
Speaker 3: many innings he throws, I'd be more concerned about before

884
00:42:21,158 --> 00:42:22,878
Speaker 3: you could be at bashroom a ball to double a

885
00:42:22,958 --> 00:42:25,638
Speaker 3: or double a to triple a, whatever you have to

886
00:42:25,718 --> 00:42:27,238
Speaker 3: be able to pitch through the third time to the

887
00:42:27,238 --> 00:42:31,318
Speaker 3: batting leader effectively. I would find that to be really interesting.

888
00:42:31,798 --> 00:42:34,358
Speaker 3: I know it's doable. I've seen it. I've seen it

889
00:42:34,398 --> 00:42:37,718
Speaker 3: for years without hurting people. If you really want to

890
00:42:38,598 --> 00:42:41,998
Speaker 3: have a stellar bullpen, annually have your starters pick up

891
00:42:42,038 --> 00:42:45,558
Speaker 3: more innings and more effective innings, and then learn how

892
00:42:45,558 --> 00:42:47,958
Speaker 3: do you get this hit or out the third time

893
00:42:47,958 --> 00:42:50,238
Speaker 3: he sees them through the bag and make that part

894
00:42:50,358 --> 00:42:53,478
Speaker 3: of the training process. Just like you're working on delivery,

895
00:42:53,518 --> 00:42:56,358
Speaker 3: you're working on grip, you're working on a pitch shape.

896
00:42:56,398 --> 00:42:57,318
Speaker 4: Whatever you want to work on.

897
00:42:57,918 --> 00:42:59,518
Speaker 3: We're also going to work on the mental part of

898
00:42:59,558 --> 00:43:02,078
Speaker 3: this game, which is how do I get Tom bradushout

899
00:43:02,118 --> 00:43:02,558
Speaker 3: the third time?

900
00:43:02,598 --> 00:43:03,038
Speaker 4: I see him?

901
00:43:03,038 --> 00:43:06,798
Speaker 3: And he's really good a lefty, I'm right handed. My

902
00:43:06,918 --> 00:43:10,158
Speaker 3: splits really are traditional. I'm really actually better against Rydei's

903
00:43:10,198 --> 00:43:12,118
Speaker 3: than lefties. What do we have to do to get

904
00:43:12,158 --> 00:43:14,118
Speaker 3: him out the third time through? It? I feel strong

905
00:43:14,118 --> 00:43:16,358
Speaker 3: about it, comfortable with it, and so does the people.

906
00:43:16,678 --> 00:43:19,318
Speaker 3: So do the people that are making decisions. I'd like

907
00:43:19,358 --> 00:43:21,798
Speaker 3: to see that become more part of the fabric as

908
00:43:21,798 --> 00:43:23,158
Speaker 3: opposed to running away from it.

909
00:43:23,478 --> 00:43:25,278
Speaker 2: Great ideas. I'm all for that, Joe.

910
00:43:25,918 --> 00:43:27,878
Speaker 1: Something needs to change and that's a good place to

911
00:43:27,918 --> 00:43:30,358
Speaker 1: start getting these guys the third time through in the

912
00:43:30,398 --> 00:43:34,398
Speaker 1: minor leagues. Dave Roberts I thought, actually both managers I

913
00:43:34,438 --> 00:43:37,238
Speaker 1: thought had great series. First of all, congrats to John

914
00:43:37,278 --> 00:43:40,238
Speaker 1: Schneider and the J's. I mean, the way that they

915
00:43:40,358 --> 00:43:43,718
Speaker 1: bought into playing team baseball is a credit to the

916
00:43:43,758 --> 00:43:45,518
Speaker 1: manager and the front office as well.

917
00:43:45,958 --> 00:43:48,518
Speaker 2: So unselfish, you know, put the ball in play.

918
00:43:48,558 --> 00:43:51,438
Speaker 1: I just loved watching the Toronto Blue Jays play baseball,

919
00:43:51,478 --> 00:43:52,998
Speaker 1: and that's the credit to John Schneider.

920
00:43:53,638 --> 00:43:55,518
Speaker 2: And Dave Roberts, as I mentioned, had a heck of

921
00:43:55,558 --> 00:43:56,118
Speaker 2: a series.

922
00:43:56,158 --> 00:43:58,878
Speaker 1: Now, yeah, I think you said at the top, Joey,

923
00:43:59,518 --> 00:44:01,718
Speaker 1: the Dodgers basically out talented.

924
00:44:01,358 --> 00:44:03,318
Speaker 2: In the end the Blue Jays, right.

925
00:44:03,518 --> 00:44:06,878
Speaker 1: I mean, Dave Roberts used four starting pitchers in Game

926
00:44:06,998 --> 00:44:10,838
Speaker 1: seven who are playing under contracts worth one point three

927
00:44:11,238 --> 00:44:15,398
Speaker 1: billion dollars. There's nobody else on the planet who has

928
00:44:15,478 --> 00:44:19,238
Speaker 1: these resources. But I thought the way he deployed those

929
00:44:19,318 --> 00:44:24,118
Speaker 1: resources was really, really good. I think in past years

930
00:44:24,118 --> 00:44:26,318
Speaker 1: you could criticize the Dodgers for being a little too

931
00:44:26,398 --> 00:44:28,038
Speaker 1: quick to move on to the next picture.

932
00:44:28,158 --> 00:44:29,598
Speaker 2: That was not the case in the series.

933
00:44:30,118 --> 00:44:32,558
Speaker 1: I thought he gave his starting pitchers that third time

934
00:44:32,638 --> 00:44:35,318
Speaker 1: through for the most part, and it worked out really well. Now,

935
00:44:35,398 --> 00:44:36,958
Speaker 1: it was hard for him to take somebody out of

936
00:44:36,998 --> 00:44:39,158
Speaker 1: his bullpen who he thought was better than one of

937
00:44:39,198 --> 00:44:42,278
Speaker 1: his starters, Don't get me wrong, but I thought his

938
00:44:42,358 --> 00:44:46,318
Speaker 1: timing on moves, his ability to let the game play

939
00:44:46,358 --> 00:44:50,678
Speaker 1: out and not be so proactive making moves, I think

940
00:44:50,758 --> 00:44:53,278
Speaker 1: that played out in the end. But listen, you've got

941
00:44:53,318 --> 00:44:55,238
Speaker 1: Will Smith, one of the best catchers in the game,

942
00:44:55,318 --> 00:44:58,798
Speaker 1: coming through with the home run, and especially Yamamoto, who's

943
00:44:58,918 --> 00:45:01,358
Speaker 1: just right now. If you need to win a game

944
00:45:01,438 --> 00:45:03,918
Speaker 1: and you can pick anybody in the world to start

945
00:45:03,998 --> 00:45:06,998
Speaker 1: at that game, he would be the guy. And he's

946
00:45:07,198 --> 00:45:09,798
Speaker 1: on the mound with the World Series and the balance

947
00:45:09,838 --> 00:45:13,398
Speaker 1: bases loaded, one out gets out of it, and the

948
00:45:13,438 --> 00:45:15,798
Speaker 1: door was closed at that point for the Jays. The

949
00:45:15,838 --> 00:45:18,678
Speaker 1: Dodgers were going to win the game and did latter day.

950
00:45:18,678 --> 00:45:23,438
Speaker 3: Bob Gibson absolutely, And the other point you're making there,

951
00:45:23,558 --> 00:45:25,678
Speaker 3: I don't know how much this was interconnected. I would

952
00:45:25,718 --> 00:45:28,718
Speaker 3: imagine there was some, but the deficiencies of the Dodger

953
00:45:28,758 --> 00:45:31,798
Speaker 3: bull on paper actually you know, somewhat performed better than

954
00:45:31,838 --> 00:45:33,958
Speaker 3: you think, and they were missing was it Vessio's was

955
00:45:33,998 --> 00:45:38,838
Speaker 3: not there, So that was really that makes it incredibly different.

956
00:45:39,358 --> 00:45:42,638
Speaker 3: But when you have a bullpen that you don't really

957
00:45:42,638 --> 00:45:46,358
Speaker 3: trust as much, it creates patients with the manager. You

958
00:45:46,478 --> 00:45:49,238
Speaker 3: just have to keep the seat belt on sometimes and

959
00:45:49,278 --> 00:45:51,638
Speaker 3: you think about this, talk about it before the game

960
00:45:51,638 --> 00:45:54,358
Speaker 3: with everybody. I mean, that's something I wouldn't just like

961
00:45:54,438 --> 00:45:57,118
Speaker 3: all of a sudden spring on somebody. As a manager,

962
00:45:57,158 --> 00:45:59,998
Speaker 3: there's something I would discuss with my analytical department, my

963
00:46:00,678 --> 00:46:03,318
Speaker 3: GM and of course my pitching coach and bullpen coach,

964
00:46:03,318 --> 00:46:06,438
Speaker 3: et cetera. That conversation is worth having. You want to

965
00:46:06,478 --> 00:46:08,958
Speaker 3: be on the same page with situations like this, because

966
00:46:09,358 --> 00:46:13,318
Speaker 3: when things don't go right, particularly talking about your bullpen's

967
00:46:13,358 --> 00:46:14,718
Speaker 3: not up to speed, you got to get more innings

968
00:46:14,718 --> 00:46:17,318
Speaker 3: out of your starters. And if you try to make

969
00:46:17,318 --> 00:46:19,758
Speaker 3: a unilateral decision in today's world like that and it

970
00:46:19,798 --> 00:46:21,478
Speaker 3: doesn't go right, that's.

971
00:46:21,318 --> 00:46:22,478
Speaker 4: Where I can get ugly.

972
00:46:22,638 --> 00:46:25,798
Speaker 3: So you would really need like to build a co

973
00:46:25,838 --> 00:46:28,718
Speaker 3: op right there and all agree that this is the

974
00:46:28,798 --> 00:46:31,278
Speaker 3: right way to go about this, and then speaking from

975
00:46:31,318 --> 00:46:35,158
Speaker 3: a manager's seat, again, especially in today's climate, you do

976
00:46:35,198 --> 00:46:37,558
Speaker 3: that with more confidence, which is a big deal. It's

977
00:46:37,558 --> 00:46:41,158
Speaker 3: a big deal because when you feel fully invested in

978
00:46:41,278 --> 00:46:43,998
Speaker 3: confident in making a decision, knowing that it's going to

979
00:46:44,038 --> 00:46:47,038
Speaker 3: be supported, you can be more creative, you can be

980
00:46:47,038 --> 00:46:49,878
Speaker 3: more on time, you can be more bold in when

981
00:46:49,878 --> 00:46:52,958
Speaker 3: you're trying to do knowing that, and I think that's important.

982
00:46:53,278 --> 00:46:56,918
Speaker 3: So again the point is when your bullpen is not

983
00:46:57,198 --> 00:46:59,838
Speaker 3: what you'd like it to be, these are the kind

984
00:46:59,878 --> 00:47:03,118
Speaker 3: of discussions I would have prior to because even the

985
00:47:03,158 --> 00:47:05,598
Speaker 3: strongest among it, so you're still going to have self

986
00:47:05,678 --> 00:47:10,118
Speaker 3: doubt when you make potentially controversial moves. So when you

987
00:47:10,118 --> 00:47:12,718
Speaker 3: have a unified approach, it really does make a big difference.

988
00:47:13,158 --> 00:47:17,318
Speaker 1: One last point, Joe, and this is something no one

989
00:47:17,478 --> 00:47:20,718
Speaker 1: has heard about until now. In the course of the game,

990
00:47:20,798 --> 00:47:22,758
Speaker 1: if you notice, and this is the first time I've

991
00:47:22,798 --> 00:47:26,278
Speaker 1: seen this, maybe ever, certainly in years, the third base

992
00:47:26,358 --> 00:47:31,278
Speaker 1: coaches were entirely in the third base coaches boxes throughout

993
00:47:31,318 --> 00:47:34,238
Speaker 1: the game. They were ordered to be in the box. Now,

994
00:47:34,358 --> 00:47:36,558
Speaker 1: I'm a big fan of this before I can tell

995
00:47:36,558 --> 00:47:41,318
Speaker 1: you before. As this postseason began, Michael Hill, who's vice

996
00:47:41,358 --> 00:47:45,238
Speaker 1: president of onfield baseball Operations, and the umpires would meet

997
00:47:45,318 --> 00:47:47,718
Speaker 1: with the front office of the managers. This is routine

998
00:47:47,718 --> 00:47:50,518
Speaker 1: before a series, just to go over ground rules and whatnot.

999
00:47:51,198 --> 00:47:53,718
Speaker 1: They made it known that as a point of emphasis

1000
00:47:53,758 --> 00:47:56,758
Speaker 1: they were going to enforce rule number five point oh three,

1001
00:47:56,798 --> 00:47:58,958
Speaker 1: which is that the coaches must be in the coaching

1002
00:47:59,078 --> 00:48:03,358
Speaker 1: box other than when they're giving specific instructions to slide

1003
00:48:03,398 --> 00:48:04,958
Speaker 1: or get back to a base while the ball is

1004
00:48:04,958 --> 00:48:08,438
Speaker 1: in play. Now, this is the most abused rule in

1005
00:48:08,478 --> 00:48:12,438
Speaker 1: baseball because coaches wander all over the place, and we

1006
00:48:12,478 --> 00:48:15,718
Speaker 1: saw during this season most of the times when teams

1007
00:48:15,758 --> 00:48:18,758
Speaker 1: are getting signals from tells on the pitcher. It's the

1008
00:48:18,798 --> 00:48:21,838
Speaker 1: base coaches who are getting it by looking into the glove,

1009
00:48:22,478 --> 00:48:25,598
Speaker 1: the position of the hands, whatnot, and relaying it to

1010
00:48:25,638 --> 00:48:29,438
Speaker 1: the runner who relays it to the batter. So it

1011
00:48:29,518 --> 00:48:33,158
Speaker 1: creates a lot of Shenanigan's going on it. Personally, I

1012
00:48:33,158 --> 00:48:35,078
Speaker 1: don't like it's a sideshow going out there. And now

1013
00:48:35,078 --> 00:48:37,438
Speaker 1: we have runners out there giving signs or looks like

1014
00:48:37,478 --> 00:48:40,638
Speaker 1: they're landing airplanes, and sometimes they're just phony signs because

1015
00:48:40,678 --> 00:48:42,278
Speaker 1: they want to get inside your head. We don't need

1016
00:48:42,278 --> 00:48:44,758
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff, right, So they said this is

1017
00:48:44,798 --> 00:48:47,318
Speaker 1: a point of emphasis during the postseason, but once the

1018
00:48:47,358 --> 00:48:50,958
Speaker 1: game started, they really didn't crack down on it. Different

1019
00:48:50,998 --> 00:48:54,278
Speaker 1: story in Game seven, Game seven, it was made once

1020
00:48:54,318 --> 00:48:57,878
Speaker 1: again a major point of emphasis before Game seven. Baseball

1021
00:48:57,878 --> 00:49:00,038
Speaker 1: didn't want this side show in a Game seven, and

1022
00:49:00,118 --> 00:49:02,438
Speaker 1: I get it, and I applaud them for it. During

1023
00:49:02,438 --> 00:49:04,438
Speaker 1: the game, it was after the third inning, Crew Chief

1024
00:49:04,478 --> 00:49:06,638
Speaker 1: Mark Wegner went into the dugouts, I know at least

1025
00:49:06,678 --> 00:49:10,518
Speaker 1: to the Dodger side, and said, listen, we're enforcing this rule.

1026
00:49:10,478 --> 00:49:11,318
Speaker 2: And the violation.

1027
00:49:11,398 --> 00:49:13,238
Speaker 1: If you violate the rule and the coaches out of

1028
00:49:13,278 --> 00:49:17,038
Speaker 1: the box, the penalty is ejection from the game. I mean, listen,

1029
00:49:17,038 --> 00:49:19,198
Speaker 1: nobody wants to get thrown out of Game seven, but

1030
00:49:19,678 --> 00:49:22,238
Speaker 1: that's the penalty. And if you watch this game and

1031
00:49:22,278 --> 00:49:24,678
Speaker 1: some of the highlights, pay attention because the coaches are

1032
00:49:24,918 --> 00:49:26,638
Speaker 1: entirely in the box.

1033
00:49:26,918 --> 00:49:30,678
Speaker 2: And I applaud this. I hope it's the way going forward.

1034
00:49:30,958 --> 00:49:34,398
Speaker 1: Let the players play, let the coaches coach, and get

1035
00:49:34,438 --> 00:49:37,718
Speaker 1: the Shenanigans out of the game that are not happening

1036
00:49:37,838 --> 00:49:39,558
Speaker 1: in between the white lines.

1037
00:49:40,318 --> 00:49:40,998
Speaker 4: You know why.

1038
00:49:41,158 --> 00:49:44,398
Speaker 3: This speaks to why I have my lead bull meeting

1039
00:49:44,438 --> 00:49:47,078
Speaker 3: and I don't like to have any or a glut

1040
00:49:47,158 --> 00:49:51,198
Speaker 3: of rules and regulations because if you do, you have

1041
00:49:51,238 --> 00:49:51,998
Speaker 3: to enforce them.

1042
00:49:52,358 --> 00:49:52,758
Speaker 4: That's it.

1043
00:49:52,878 --> 00:49:55,238
Speaker 3: I mean, if that is a rule and a regulation,

1044
00:49:55,478 --> 00:49:57,758
Speaker 3: then it needs to be enforced. When I was a

1045
00:49:57,758 --> 00:50:00,718
Speaker 3: young manager at the Angel organization, Larry Hymes was the

1046
00:50:00,838 --> 00:50:05,758
Speaker 3: scouting director and farm director simultaneously, and Larry was big

1047
00:50:05,838 --> 00:50:08,438
Speaker 3: on his raised by the Cincinnati Reds, we had to

1048
00:50:08,478 --> 00:50:11,238
Speaker 3: show an inch of red on the back.

1049
00:50:11,038 --> 00:50:13,198
Speaker 4: Of our socks. With the pants.

1050
00:50:13,198 --> 00:50:16,238
Speaker 3: It just can't pull your stirrups up and show no red.

1051
00:50:16,758 --> 00:50:19,118
Speaker 3: So I mean, I had I don't know thirty guys

1052
00:50:19,158 --> 00:50:22,398
Speaker 3: on my rookie league team, and you have so many.

1053
00:50:22,718 --> 00:50:24,878
Speaker 4: No coaches, just you.

1054
00:50:24,878 --> 00:50:28,278
Speaker 3: You're throwing all the VP whatever, coaching third watching the workouts,

1055
00:50:28,638 --> 00:50:31,038
Speaker 3: so you don't Sometimes I just screw it, you know.

1056
00:50:31,638 --> 00:50:32,638
Speaker 4: That's just another thing.

1057
00:50:33,078 --> 00:50:34,878
Speaker 3: He comes into town and he read me the Riot

1058
00:50:34,878 --> 00:50:37,678
Speaker 3: Act because I was not doing that. I was not

1059
00:50:37,798 --> 00:50:40,798
Speaker 3: enforcing the inch of red in the back. You don't

1060
00:50:40,838 --> 00:50:44,078
Speaker 3: create a rule or a regulation unless you're gonna enforce it.

1061
00:50:44,078 --> 00:50:44,878
Speaker 4: It's very simple.

1062
00:50:45,758 --> 00:50:47,398
Speaker 3: If you don't want it, then you just take it

1063
00:50:47,438 --> 00:50:51,118
Speaker 3: away their base coaches could stand wherever they want, just

1064
00:50:51,238 --> 00:50:54,918
Speaker 3: make that the rule. But if it's in fact they

1065
00:50:54,958 --> 00:50:56,638
Speaker 3: have to stay in the coach's box for a variety

1066
00:50:56,638 --> 00:50:59,958
Speaker 3: of different reasons, then you enforce it.

1067
00:50:59,438 --> 00:51:00,998
Speaker 4: It's real simple.

1068
00:51:02,558 --> 00:51:06,918
Speaker 3: One time in we're playing ol Passo Midland angels A

1069
00:51:06,998 --> 00:51:11,238
Speaker 3: Passo and Terry Bevington is the manager of El Paso

1070
00:51:11,398 --> 00:51:14,398
Speaker 3: and his brother Zach is the home plate umpire. Now

1071
00:51:14,438 --> 00:51:17,798
Speaker 3: these guys got along like oil and water man. They

1072
00:51:17,798 --> 00:51:20,918
Speaker 3: were just they was never con mix. So it's a

1073
00:51:20,918 --> 00:51:24,318
Speaker 3: cold night in Midland and Chris Bosio happened to be

1074
00:51:24,358 --> 00:51:26,998
Speaker 3: on the Ol Paso team. So this was eighty five,

1075
00:51:27,158 --> 00:51:31,238
Speaker 3: eighty six, eighty five, and so Boz came out to

1076
00:51:31,358 --> 00:51:33,398
Speaker 3: coach for a space with a jacket on, and Zach

1077
00:51:33,838 --> 00:51:38,638
Speaker 3: Bevington homeplate umpire immediately said, no, you can't wear a jacket.

1078
00:51:38,638 --> 00:51:43,198
Speaker 3: It's only because he hated his brother Terry the manager.

1079
00:51:43,918 --> 00:51:47,078
Speaker 3: Take the jacket off or you can't coach first base.

1080
00:51:47,158 --> 00:51:50,038
Speaker 3: So they took the jacket off, stayed out there about

1081
00:51:50,078 --> 00:51:53,558
Speaker 3: three inneks later. Boss comes back out with the jacket

1082
00:51:53,598 --> 00:51:57,918
Speaker 3: on again, and immediately Zach ejects.

1083
00:51:58,318 --> 00:52:00,198
Speaker 4: Bozzio from the game and here comes Terry.

1084
00:52:00,798 --> 00:52:03,958
Speaker 3: I'm not kidding, there was at least I wish I

1085
00:52:03,998 --> 00:52:05,998
Speaker 3: had a time at least a fifteen to twenty minute

1086
00:52:06,118 --> 00:52:10,198
Speaker 3: argument between Terry and Zach behind home played at Midland,

1087
00:52:10,798 --> 00:52:12,718
Speaker 3: and I'm telling you that the kind of language that

1088
00:52:12,798 --> 00:52:15,598
Speaker 3: was being thrown back between brothers was incredible.

1089
00:52:16,158 --> 00:52:18,198
Speaker 4: But the point was it was a role. It was

1090
00:52:18,238 --> 00:52:18,838
Speaker 4: a role that you.

1091
00:52:18,758 --> 00:52:21,918
Speaker 3: Can't wear a jacket while you're coaching base in the

1092
00:52:21,958 --> 00:52:24,758
Speaker 3: Texas League at that time. So these are the kind

1093
00:52:24,798 --> 00:52:27,318
Speaker 3: of things that made an impression on me. When you listen,

1094
00:52:27,398 --> 00:52:30,238
Speaker 3: I'm one too stretch roles. I guess I'm not going

1095
00:52:30,278 --> 00:52:33,798
Speaker 3: to deny that, but under these circumstances, either take the

1096
00:52:33,918 --> 00:52:37,918
Speaker 3: role out of play completely. We're just legislate something new

1097
00:52:37,918 --> 00:52:41,638
Speaker 3: and different or enforce it. I'm absolutely into that.

1098
00:52:41,638 --> 00:52:42,558
Speaker 2: That was a great story.

1099
00:52:42,598 --> 00:52:46,038
Speaker 1: By the way, I can't I'm just patrel thanksgving Day

1100
00:52:46,118 --> 00:52:47,638
Speaker 1: table at the Bevington House.

1101
00:52:49,958 --> 00:52:51,078
Speaker 4: And then Sam's please.

1102
00:52:51,158 --> 00:52:52,678
Speaker 3: I was in at ten and Sammy was like a

1103
00:52:52,758 --> 00:52:55,438
Speaker 3: rover for the Brewers, was a Brewer team and I'm thinking,

1104
00:52:55,518 --> 00:52:57,518
Speaker 3: I swear to god, I thought I thought Terry's going

1105
00:52:57,558 --> 00:52:58,518
Speaker 3: to get fired after this.

1106
00:52:58,638 --> 00:52:59,478
Speaker 4: It was that bad.

1107
00:53:00,198 --> 00:53:03,318
Speaker 3: It went on that long. The language was so dirty.

1108
00:53:03,958 --> 00:53:05,558
Speaker 3: I'm just sitting there in a dugout listening to the

1109
00:53:05,558 --> 00:53:06,838
Speaker 3: whole thing. It was outstanding.

1110
00:53:06,998 --> 00:53:10,078
Speaker 1: Well, it was an amazing world series, an amazing Game seven,

1111
00:53:10,358 --> 00:53:15,798
Speaker 1: an amazing week. By the way, because Bad Company was

1112
00:53:15,838 --> 00:53:18,198
Speaker 1: also chosen to be in the Rock and Roll Hall

1113
00:53:18,238 --> 00:53:22,998
Speaker 1: of Fame, Joe overdue tribute to Bad Company. But you

1114
00:53:23,078 --> 00:53:26,758
Speaker 1: are our Yashinobu Yamamoto, our big game pitcher. We want

1115
00:53:26,758 --> 00:53:28,478
Speaker 1: them ball in your hands at the end, which is

1116
00:53:28,518 --> 00:53:31,318
Speaker 1: where we have arrived. So what do you have to

1117
00:53:31,358 --> 00:53:32,118
Speaker 1: take us home?

1118
00:53:32,318 --> 00:53:36,678
Speaker 3: Incredible? You went with the music reference today. Incredible because

1119
00:53:36,758 --> 00:53:41,918
Speaker 3: mine has that tie in also from Semi Sonic talking

1120
00:53:41,958 --> 00:53:44,838
Speaker 3: about the end of the season and what happens at

1121
00:53:44,838 --> 00:53:47,958
Speaker 3: the end of a baseball season, already going into next year.

1122
00:53:47,998 --> 00:53:50,238
Speaker 3: And the song was closing Time, which they used to

1123
00:53:50,278 --> 00:53:53,038
Speaker 3: play all the time when Perceval Troy used to come

1124
00:53:53,078 --> 00:53:57,598
Speaker 3: in to close a ball game. And right, it comes

1125
00:53:57,598 --> 00:54:01,798
Speaker 3: from Seneca. Every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end.

1126
00:54:02,398 --> 00:54:06,758
Speaker 3: And that's what's happening right now. There's new beginnings all

1127
00:54:06,798 --> 00:54:10,118
Speaker 3: over the place, and hope's already springing eternal going into

1128
00:54:10,158 --> 00:54:12,758
Speaker 3: next season. And you see the new managerial hires and

1129
00:54:13,158 --> 00:54:15,478
Speaker 3: other things that are happening here in Tampa. The Tampa

1130
00:54:15,518 --> 00:54:18,798
Speaker 3: Bay Rays have new ownership. There's all kinds of interesting

1131
00:54:19,358 --> 00:54:22,238
Speaker 3: things at work. So wow, I mean that you bring

1132
00:54:22,278 --> 00:54:24,518
Speaker 3: that up, and I thought that was perfect. Any other part,

1133
00:54:24,958 --> 00:54:27,758
Speaker 3: there's one other and something I used to talk to

1134
00:54:27,798 --> 00:54:30,358
Speaker 3: my players about my staff about all the time. The

1135
00:54:30,398 --> 00:54:33,118
Speaker 3: beginning is the most important part of the work, and

1136
00:54:33,158 --> 00:54:35,398
Speaker 3: that comes from Plato. And today I wrote everything on

1137
00:54:35,438 --> 00:54:38,158
Speaker 3: a plate, by the way, which is incredible that it happened,

1138
00:54:38,478 --> 00:54:41,438
Speaker 3: but I didn't have any paper here. But the beginning

1139
00:54:41,518 --> 00:54:43,278
Speaker 3: is the most important part of the work, and I

1140
00:54:43,398 --> 00:54:45,598
Speaker 3: really believe that when you lay it out. I mean,

1141
00:54:45,598 --> 00:54:47,918
Speaker 3: that's not of course, you're always going to remain flexible.

1142
00:54:48,078 --> 00:54:51,158
Speaker 3: And I think that's a huge part of being successful,

1143
00:54:51,358 --> 00:54:54,398
Speaker 3: is open minded and being flexible to whatever it.

1144
00:54:54,318 --> 00:54:54,918
Speaker 4: Is that you do.

1145
00:54:55,438 --> 00:54:58,038
Speaker 3: But the beginning is wow, it's so important that you

1146
00:54:58,158 --> 00:55:01,238
Speaker 3: lay it out right or at least get the foundation

1147
00:55:02,398 --> 00:55:04,038
Speaker 3: really spread out in a way that's going to to

1148
00:55:04,078 --> 00:55:05,438
Speaker 3: be supportive to the whole group.

1149
00:55:05,558 --> 00:55:07,518
Speaker 4: So the beginning.

1150
00:55:07,918 --> 00:55:09,638
Speaker 3: There's a new beginning going on for a lot of

1151
00:55:09,638 --> 00:55:12,958
Speaker 3: groups right now. And when you're doing that, understand one

1152
00:55:12,998 --> 00:55:15,918
Speaker 3: thing that the beginning is the most important part of

1153
00:55:15,918 --> 00:55:18,678
Speaker 3: the work. As you start creating this new structure that's

1154
00:55:19,238 --> 00:55:20,838
Speaker 3: hopefully going to get you to the World Series next

1155
00:55:20,918 --> 00:55:22,038
Speaker 3: year and play the last game of the year and

1156
00:55:22,078 --> 00:55:23,998
Speaker 3: win it. I want to hear more teams talk about

1157
00:55:24,078 --> 00:55:27,718
Speaker 3: that as opposed to reacting during the course of the year.

1158
00:55:27,918 --> 00:55:31,358
Speaker 1: Oh awesome stuff, Great stuff, Joe, And this has been

1159
00:55:31,398 --> 00:55:33,798
Speaker 1: a lot of fun, great World series, great work here

1160
00:55:34,238 --> 00:55:36,238
Speaker 1: on the Book of Joe and we will see you

1161
00:55:36,518 --> 00:55:37,078
Speaker 1: next time.

1162
00:55:37,398 --> 00:55:38,798
Speaker 4: Take care, tell me a nice job, brother.

1163
00:55:46,598 --> 00:55:49,798
Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

1164
00:55:50,038 --> 00:55:54,918
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

1165
00:55:55,158 --> 00:55:56,918
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts.