Speaker 1: All right, break it down.
Speaker 2: If you ever have feelings that you just won't Amy
Speaker 2: and Cat gotcha Covin locking No, brother, Ladies and folks,
Speaker 2: do you just follow Ann the spirit where it's all
Speaker 2: the front over real stuff to the chill stuff and
Speaker 2: the m but Swayne, sometimes the best thing you can
Speaker 2: do it just.
Speaker 1: You feel things.
Speaker 2: This is feeling things with.
Speaker 3: Amy and Kat.
Speaker 4: Happy Tuesday. Welcome to feeling things. I'm Amy and I'm Kat.
Speaker 4: And feeling of the day is annoyed because the question is,
Speaker 4: I mean, is there anyone we can trust anymore? And
Speaker 4: if so, how do we know we can trust them?
Speaker 4: Because I already feel like I had to let go
Speaker 4: of Jay Shetty and now Mel Robbins, so I need
Speaker 4: to know who we can trust.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I'm glad you're asking that question because you
Speaker 3: know what today.
Speaker 4: Is the Mel Robin's Deep Dive.
Speaker 3: It's our first official deep dive. So this is something
Speaker 3: we'll do from time to time. I'll do it with
Speaker 3: you and then you'll do it with me, and we'll
Speaker 3: take turns teaching each other something. And it can be
Speaker 3: about a person, a thing in pop culture, just a
Speaker 3: random idea we want to learn about and we're starting
Speaker 3: with Mel Robbins and her let them theory, and you
Speaker 3: are the teacher and I'm the teacher. I am the student,
Speaker 3: you are the student, and.
Speaker 4: I was the biggest Mel Robins fan. And not saying
Speaker 4: that I'm not in general, I still follow I'll dabble.
Speaker 4: I like guess that she has on. I just have
Speaker 4: found myself increasingly bummed. I guess would be the feeling
Speaker 4: of like or just kind of this weird feeling okay, disappointed,
Speaker 4: could work or just confuse like it's it's more of
Speaker 4: a feeling like I don't even know that I've got
Speaker 4: the exact word other.
Speaker 3: Than like ick, yeah an eh, I'm.
Speaker 4: Getting it, just like sometimes I'm like eugh, I was
Speaker 4: reading her book. I have followed her for years and
Speaker 4: enjoyed a lot of her stuff. I have learned a
Speaker 4: lot from her. I've learned a lot from her guests.
Speaker 4: I have shared a lot of her information. I've regurgitated
Speaker 4: it on my own podcasts and quoting her, of course
Speaker 4: not as my own stuff, but it's someone that I
Speaker 4: was like, oh, we need to be paying attention to
Speaker 4: this person. And I do think that she is helping
Speaker 4: in a certain way. But I know through your deep
Speaker 4: dive research you wouldn't necessarily define her as a helper,
Speaker 4: and I'm very curious as to why that is in
Speaker 4: what category we actually should put her in. But back
Speaker 4: to her latest book, I was trying to read it,
Speaker 4: and that's when the just really started to seep in
Speaker 4: because of the controversy around let them theory and where
Speaker 4: it originally came from. Because as an avid follower of hers,
Speaker 4: I know when I first saw her post about it,
Speaker 4: I remember being in my.
Speaker 3: Closet, well, you're getting to have yourself.
Speaker 4: Okay, I won't get ahead because I know you're the teacher,
Speaker 4: but I'm just letting you know. That's when, yeah, the
Speaker 4: and the unease started to set in. Yeah, because I
Speaker 4: couldn't even finish the book because that was a controversy
Speaker 4: that gained a lot of attention online. There's a lot
Speaker 4: of podcasts about it, there's a lot of threads about
Speaker 4: it all over the place, and so you can do
Speaker 4: your own research into it, but it just gave me
Speaker 4: the the ick and I couldn't finish it, which then
Speaker 4: those articles and podcasts led me into more research, and
Speaker 4: then now I'm just.
Speaker 3: Disenchanted. Yeah, that's a good word. She's somebody you or
Speaker 3: I know. This is how I felt. I want to
Speaker 3: like her. I want to like her so bad, but
Speaker 3: there's something also, yes, this disenchantment with that. You're like, oh,
Speaker 3: the screen has been lifted, like we see behind the
Speaker 3: curtain and we don't like what we see. And one
Speaker 3: thing that I kind of relate it back to is
Speaker 3: there was there was a job I had at one
Speaker 3: point in my life and it was like my dream job,
Speaker 3: Like I could not believe that I was chosen to
Speaker 3: work there. And I started working there in this this
Speaker 3: very evident, like unethical thing was just running around the workplace.
Speaker 3: And this is in the mental health field. There's a
Speaker 3: bunch of therapists, so it's it was pretty black and
Speaker 3: white that it was unethical, but everybody knew about it.
Speaker 3: And that's what led me to quit because I said
Speaker 3: to my I loved my boss. I looked up to
Speaker 3: him so much. I thought he was very wise, and
Speaker 3: he wasn't like in charge of the thing that was unethical.
Speaker 3: He was like stepped down. But I said to him,
Speaker 3: I said, I can't stay here anymore because I know
Speaker 3: about this, and you know about this, and we all
Speaker 3: know about this, and I'm not privy to a lot
Speaker 3: of the insider information, but you are. So if you're
Speaker 3: showing us this and it's that bad, what are you
Speaker 3: not showing us? And he didn't really say anything. He
Speaker 3: just was like, all right, get your stuff out here,
Speaker 3: and then a lot of people quit too. And that's
Speaker 3: what kind of this feels like, is we know this
Speaker 3: is So we'll get into the what you're talking about.
Speaker 3: The controversy around her book. We all know about that.
Speaker 3: It is so obvious, there's proof, it's all the timelines,
Speaker 3: so that's there, and she's just acting like it doesn't exist.
Speaker 4: I don't know how it has not been addressed on
Speaker 4: her end at all whatsoever. I am really that perplexes me.
Speaker 3: So what we're going to look at is where she comes,
Speaker 3: where she comes from, like how did she get here?
Speaker 3: Who is she? And then we'll look at the book
Speaker 3: and I think there's some there's some criticism around just
Speaker 3: the book in general, and then this controversy which is
Speaker 3: also there at the same time, which since we're dancing
Speaker 3: around it, I'll just say it. There's the main point
Speaker 3: of her book seems to be seems to be taken
Speaker 3: from a smaller, less known artist writer, and it's pretty
Speaker 3: evident and there's a lot of proof in it, but
Speaker 3: she's refusing to acknowledge.
Speaker 4: It, which a simple acknowledgment. That's what so blows my
Speaker 4: mind crazy. She could still write the book totally and
Speaker 4: then just like credit this person, which even that both
Speaker 4: of them, even that girl which I'm sure you get
Speaker 4: into it, and I have her name and everything. I
Speaker 4: don't even remember her name, Cassie, Cassie, that's it. Okay,
Speaker 4: so Cassie, I think also the idea of let them.
Speaker 4: Who knows how many people before Cassie have even said okay,
Speaker 4: let them, Okay, let them. I saw a funny video
Speaker 4: from some girl in New York the other day. She's like,
Speaker 4: you want me to give you the New York version
Speaker 4: of mel Robins let them theory.
Speaker 3: She's like Ethelm, She's.
Speaker 4: Like, someone does this to you, Yeah, someone does that
Speaker 4: to you.
Speaker 3: Ef it Well, it just was. It was really funny.
Speaker 3: It made me laugh. But it's not revolutionary. Even Cassie.
Speaker 4: Her poem, even poem, I get in trouble for how
Speaker 4: I say poem. I don't say it correctly.
Speaker 3: I get it. Oh go I'm so used to you
Speaker 3: saying it like that, You're.
Speaker 4: Used to me saying poem. Cassie's poem about let them
Speaker 4: it went viral, and I don't think Cassie would say
Speaker 4: that she's even with that viral poem poem, that she's
Speaker 4: the first person that's ever had this idea of let.
Speaker 3: Them, you know, And yeah, we'll get into that. Yeah,
Speaker 3: it's wild, it's interesting. And I before we Cassie Phillips,
Speaker 3: yes that's her name, before we go deeper into this,
Speaker 3: I do want to say, I am just sharing you
Speaker 3: with what I have found, and I'm sharing a couple
Speaker 3: opinions I have made based on what I have found.
Speaker 3: But I really not trying to just like bash her.
Speaker 3: I think if I was honest, what I really wanted
Speaker 3: to find is that she was what we want her
Speaker 3: to be because we all want somebody to look up to,
Speaker 3: we all want somebody to trust, We all are looking
Speaker 3: for somebody to guide us. And I discovered her or
Speaker 3: I first heard about her when she had her ted
Speaker 3: talk how to get people to stop screening you over
Speaker 3: or how there was something about screwing people over where
Speaker 3: I'm like twenty eleven and have you heard it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I've watched Okay, of course I had a big fan,
Speaker 4: big fan, but it was it was old, so yeah,
Speaker 4: I didn't know. If it's not how I discovered her, though,
Speaker 4: I think I first heard of her with her five
Speaker 4: second Rule and somewhere on Instagram she came up and
Speaker 4: I immediately started following her, and then of course I
Speaker 4: started high fiving myself in the Mirror.
Speaker 3: Which was one of her books.
Speaker 4: Yes, and then I would do the five four three
Speaker 4: two one Get out of Bed. And I liked all
Speaker 4: of her science back tips and tricks and hacks. I
Speaker 4: was a sucker for it all, and I still think
Speaker 4: that they could be helpful. I know that that's how
Speaker 4: I was exposed her. And then I think I went
Speaker 4: back and watched some of her viral YouTube stuff and
Speaker 4: her TED talks and stuff that put her on the
Speaker 4: map with a lot of people. And then I would
Speaker 4: talk to you about her all the time. And I
Speaker 4: think it's worth noting that if people didn't gather from
Speaker 4: you working at that mental health place, that you're a
Speaker 4: licensed therapist, in case anybody's listening, that is new.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and when I was on your fifth thing, you
Speaker 3: talked about her a lot, and I could take quiet
Speaker 3: because people probably are like, wait, you guys used to
Speaker 3: always talk about her, like we used to have a
Speaker 3: joke of like take a shot and once you were
Speaker 3: a say Mel Robbins, like, oh gosh, I forgot about that.
Speaker 3: So you talked about her all the time, and I
Speaker 3: went along with it because I know that I'm somebody
Speaker 3: who is very it's critical of the right word, it's
Speaker 3: very skeptical. I'm very skeptical.
Speaker 4: Yeah, their standism, and I like in your blood yeah.
Speaker 3: Which I don't love. Then I do at the same time,
Speaker 3: but I get sick of that part of me. So
Speaker 3: I'm like, Catherine, let her, let her, let her, like
Speaker 3: Mel Robbins, if she's helping her, let her help her,
Speaker 3: And that is I still believe that if if she's
Speaker 3: helping you, that's okay. We don't have to throw the
Speaker 3: baby out with the bathwater. You can take parts of
Speaker 3: this and also know when you need to like set
Speaker 3: a boundary for yourself or know when to say, okay,
Speaker 3: this makes sense, But I don't have to take all
Speaker 3: of it at the same time. And so if you're listening,
Speaker 3: you're like, you guys used to talk about her all
Speaker 3: the time you are hypocrites kind of. But also we
Speaker 3: have more information now well, and that's part of it.
Speaker 4: I think this is an example too of well critical thinking,
Speaker 4: which we've discussed previously, and then evolving and figuring out
Speaker 4: what works and what doesn't work. I mean, there are
Speaker 4: things that I would get from Mel that I would
Speaker 4: even try out myself and it just didn't sit right,
Speaker 4: Like it didn't feel right, like I in the mirror or.
Speaker 3: You like, no, that worked. Now I kind of like that.
Speaker 3: I don't mind that so much.
Speaker 4: And then you know, even the five second role, like
Speaker 4: I get the stuff behind it, but sometimes it's just
Speaker 4: like the simplest stuff that you need, sort of like
Speaker 4: drink water.
Speaker 3: But how is she writing this is my question? How
Speaker 3: did she write a whole book on counting to five
Speaker 3: and let them like that could.
Speaker 4: Be read the five second role?
Speaker 3: So I'm not sure, Like that's an art that's near
Speaker 3: here and more there. So okay, we could talk about
Speaker 3: this forever. I could talk about this topic for five hours,
Speaker 3: So for the sake of time, shall we all right?
Speaker 3: So before we get into the juice, I did find
Speaker 3: this idea on a very credible website.
Speaker 4: What's the website Reddit. Oh yeah, super credible.
Speaker 3: And I was reading threads just of people's opinions on Melan,
Speaker 3: you know, leading me down a black hole, and somebody
Speaker 3: said this. I just thought I'd never heard this before.
Speaker 3: I thought it was interesting. The term is cruel optimism,
Speaker 3: and that shows up. It shows up, I think in
Speaker 3: a lot of her content, and specifically her book, but
Speaker 3: it shows up with a lot of self help content.
Speaker 3: And of course in the comment somebody was like, I'm
Speaker 3: not familiar. What is cruel optimism? And this is what
Speaker 3: the person said. It comes from the philosopher Lorne Berlant
Speaker 3: and describes in a way, the sort of false hope
Speaker 3: attachments people are given which redirect them from changing their
Speaker 3: material reality. Most self help books provide a surface level
Speaker 3: false sense of solution which actually distracts people from making
Speaker 3: change in the material reality underlying their suffering. So essentially,
Speaker 3: it's what it's saying is it makes people feel better
Speaker 3: about their circumstances without actually addressing the underlying issues. So
Speaker 3: it keeps them stuck, and it becomes a tool of
Speaker 3: actually reinforcing what's actually happening, and it works against them.
Speaker 4: So would grow an actual work on yourself like deep
Speaker 4: dinner work. Then that's what leads to us the veil
Speaker 4: being lifted in us being like.
Speaker 3: What yeah, I am I well, and that's I think
Speaker 3: following this person. Yeah. The criticism of the let them
Speaker 3: theory and like the five four three two one and
Speaker 3: all that stuff is when you're reading that stuff. I mean,
Speaker 3: I've had this feeling too, and I've read self help books.
Speaker 3: You're like, oh my gosh, highlighting it like this just
Speaker 3: makes so much sense. I'm going to do this. And
Speaker 3: then when you actually do those things, they don't change
Speaker 3: anything about your life. They'll let them actually keeps you
Speaker 3: further away from actually addressing the issues that you have,
Speaker 3: creating boundaries for people in your life, having intentional conversation,
Speaker 3: confronting people, Like confronting people is part of real relationships.
Speaker 3: And so I just wanted to say that as we'll
Speaker 3: get back into it, but I thought it was just
Speaker 3: an interesting idea that it seems like and that's why
Speaker 3: it's the cruel optimism. It seems like you're like, yes,
Speaker 3: this is going to change my life, but it keeps
Speaker 3: you exactly the same exactly.
Speaker 4: It's sort of like you're just you're hopping onto this
Speaker 4: wheel and you don't ever get off unless you dig deeper. Yeah,
Speaker 4: but the tips are designed to keep you surface.
Speaker 3: And I think that creates this the wheel. I like
Speaker 3: that idea. That's like coming back to that person. Right,
Speaker 3: So if I'm like I'm waiting for her next book,
Speaker 3: that's going to solve the next problem. And that's a
Speaker 3: marketing tactic like always leave, leave somebody needing the next thing.
Speaker 3: So like this book sets you up, it creates, it
Speaker 3: solves this problem, but it creates another problem. Somebody was
Speaker 3: talking to me about this, Hannah Ellis, she's an esthetician.
Speaker 3: She was like, the beauty industry does that, so they'll
Speaker 3: create a product that solves this. Like back in the day,
Speaker 3: grapefruit scrub. It cleaned out your pores. Well, guess what
Speaker 3: it gave you dry skin? So then what was the
Speaker 3: next thing, morturizer. Yes, so it's the same idea. Okay.
Speaker 3: So I wanted to know when I started this, like
Speaker 3: where does mel come from? What's her background? What gives
Speaker 3: her the right to be saying these things? And I
Speaker 3: have to say she's very credited, like she has degrees.
Speaker 3: She went to Dartmouth, Dartmouth, Dartmouth Dartmouth Dartmouth poem.
Speaker 1: She went.
Speaker 3: She went to Dartmouth's right, and then she went to
Speaker 3: Boston College for law school. So she is smart to
Speaker 3: be able to get into both of those schools. And
Speaker 3: she was a public defender. I think it was for
Speaker 3: a while. And then she moved to Michigan for her
Speaker 3: husband's schooling, I think business school or something. And when
Speaker 3: she did that, she wanted to change careers, which I
Speaker 3: would get that, like you want something different? Well, who
Speaker 3: do you think she talked to about changing careers? Like,
Speaker 3: if you wanted to change careers, who would you call
Speaker 3: to help you figure out where you want to go?
Speaker 4: Well, I mean I would just call a friend, Okay,
Speaker 4: I phone home. I don't know, like i'd call my sister.
Speaker 4: Who did she call?
Speaker 3: She called a life coach.
Speaker 1: Oh see, I don't.
Speaker 3: I don't have one of those. But which maybe she
Speaker 3: started seeing a life coach and the life coach ended
Speaker 3: up saying like, and this comes from an article, I
Speaker 3: want to give credit where credit is due. This comes
Speaker 3: from an article by Rachel Baker, and it was in
Speaker 3: the Boston magazine in two thousand and seven, so this
Speaker 3: was before she got super big. So she went to
Speaker 3: a life coach. The life coach was like, you should
Speaker 3: be doing what I'm doing, and Mel was like yeah,
Speaker 3: And so how do you think she learned to become
Speaker 3: a life coach.
Speaker 4: From her life coach? So she was trained like the
Speaker 4: life coach saw something in her and was like, wow,
Speaker 4: you'd be really good at this. So then she decided
Speaker 4: show me your ways and like take me under your
Speaker 4: wing and then I'll spread my own.
Speaker 3: Yeah. So she it says in that this article she
Speaker 3: trained for two years under this person by phone, email
Speaker 3: and an in person visits occasionally, like just training over email.
Speaker 3: I guess it was twenty and seven. Things were different
Speaker 3: back then. Probably wasn't Zoom, No, was their Skype? Maybe maybe? Okay,
Speaker 3: So then she became a life coach. So by two
Speaker 3: thousand and seven, so this is what eighteen years ago.
Speaker 3: How much do you think she was charging in two
Speaker 3: thousand and seven? How much do you think she was
Speaker 3: charging in two thousand and seven for life coaching.
Speaker 4: I'm just gonna guess five hundred an hour?
Speaker 3: No, no, three fifty okay, but that's a lot like that,
Speaker 3: don't even charge that's double my rate as a therapist.
Speaker 3: So that's two thousand and seven. That's what blew my mind. Like, honestly,
Speaker 3: life coaches their rates are cucko these days.
Speaker 4: And they're not they're not certified, Yeah, like I mean,
Speaker 4: I guess they if you could be training under somebody,
Speaker 4: but do I have to have training or a certificate?
Speaker 3: No. You could to make yourself look credible, but there's
Speaker 3: no actual like you don't have to. I think that
Speaker 3: they're also I will say this, I think that there's
Speaker 3: a place for life coaches. I'm not against them when
Speaker 3: people stay in their lane and they do know like
Speaker 3: what they're actually coaching on somebody on. I think there's
Speaker 3: a time and a place for it. Do I think
Speaker 3: sometimes they charge too much? Yes, but there's not like
Speaker 3: a governing body of them.
Speaker 4: So I would say an average therapist though, just that
Speaker 4: has schooling and all the credentials, which there is a
Speaker 4: difference between a therapist and a life coach. Yeah, but
Speaker 4: I would say most therapists are probably like what one
Speaker 4: hundred and fifty an hour.
Speaker 3: Depends on where you live, Okay, I think in New
Speaker 3: York five hundred dollars wouldn't surprise me. In Naturville, you're
Speaker 3: gonna find between a licensed therapist, like one fifty to
Speaker 3: two fifty, and there's reasons why they would be higher
Speaker 3: and lower based on different trainings, certifications you have. And
Speaker 3: you said, it's the same thing, like therapists can also
Speaker 3: price gouge people. Yeah.
Speaker 4: So it's like a bottle of water at the gas
Speaker 4: station and the bottle of water at the airport. The
Speaker 4: same bottle of water, you just charge more.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so okay, that was shocking to me. So she
Speaker 3: became a life coach and then she had this syndicated
Speaker 3: radio show called make It Happen with Mel?
Speaker 4: Was that on serious?
Speaker 3: I think so? And now I was looking for if
Speaker 3: I could like listen to an old episode of or something,
Speaker 3: So I typed in like make it Happen with Mel,
Speaker 3: And now that just leads you to her website and
Speaker 3: she has like a two part online coaching program called
Speaker 3: make It Happen with Mel. I don't know how much
Speaker 3: she's charging though, because I didn't want to sign up
Speaker 3: for her email list.
Speaker 4: She still has that business.
Speaker 3: I mean, it's it was kind of hard if you
Speaker 3: didn't actually type in make it Happen with Mel. It
Speaker 3: was hard to find it on her website just by
Speaker 3: going through it, so she still does it, but I
Speaker 3: it looks like it's like a pre recorded coaching sessions,
Speaker 3: so who knows how much she could be charging for that,
Speaker 3: So she has that side business. So this also was
Speaker 3: very interesting to me. And this gets me into like
Speaker 3: my kind of thoughts and opinions on her. I think
Speaker 3: she's a genius. I think she is so smart. I
Speaker 3: do think she has helped people, but I also think
Speaker 3: that again my opinion, she is a businesswoman, not a helper.
Speaker 3: The helping is like almost by accident or it's like this,
Speaker 3: like somehow this comes along sometimes to me. Her main
Speaker 3: goal is business, which also is like we live in
Speaker 3: a capitalist society, Like that makes sense. The way she
Speaker 3: markets herself, the way she uses words in storytelling to
Speaker 3: kind of rope you in and wrap you in is
Speaker 3: incredible exhibit a her website. On her bio, she says,
Speaker 3: at forty one, I was unemployed, drowning in debt, and
Speaker 3: so overwhelmed that I could barely get out of bed.
Speaker 3: Then everything changed with one simple tool, the five second rule.
Speaker 3: It got me moving one small step at a time
Speaker 3: and led me here. Now fifteen years later, I host
Speaker 3: one of the world's biggest podcasts, and my books have
Speaker 3: reached millions in over fifty languages. My work has changed
Speaker 3: billions of lives and can empower you to Does anything
Speaker 3: stick out to you?
Speaker 4: Well, right now, my brain immediately goes to it's reminding
Speaker 4: me of how Rachel Hollis would market herself as someone
Speaker 4: that didn't even go to college and was just coming
Speaker 4: up with recipes in her like a stay at home mom.
Speaker 3: Baking started from the bottom now or now.
Speaker 4: Yes, like leaving out the part of like, well, okay,
Speaker 4: marrying a Disney executive, but that's a whole nother story
Speaker 4: in itself, which okay, we're not going to derail. But
Speaker 4: that's where my brain went of sometimes how you tell
Speaker 4: a story and how you spin it can change everything.
Speaker 4: And then your followers are like, oh, I didn't go
Speaker 4: to college. I just make recipes at home. I could
Speaker 4: be this person. I am in debt. I have failed
Speaker 4: at this, but now look at mel All I have
Speaker 4: to do is count down from five.
Speaker 3: And also there's this essence of look how hard she
Speaker 3: works to get there too, and like if I just
Speaker 3: put in some hard work too, I can be there.
Speaker 3: And I did the math when she was forty one.
Speaker 3: It was like tw ten, twenty eleven. By that time,
Speaker 3: she was charging three hundred and fifty dollars for life coaching.
Speaker 3: She had a radio show, and she was on the
Speaker 3: brink of her ted talk, which really catapulted her.
Speaker 4: Say what is she referring to?
Speaker 3: She she wasn't unemployed. She was self employed. She self
Speaker 3: funded a lot of her endeavors, and that's why she
Speaker 3: says drowning in debt. But she would probably took out
Speaker 3: business loans to start this venture for herself.
Speaker 4: Well, and then I think her husband had a restaurant
Speaker 4: business that was failing, so that would invested a lot.
Speaker 4: And so then there's that storyline of like all of
Speaker 4: our money was poured into this restaurant and it was
Speaker 4: going to fail. Okay, So she was employed, but by
Speaker 4: herself she wasn't.
Speaker 3: Yeah, she wasn't unemployed. She was a life coach charging
Speaker 3: three hundred and fifty dollars an hour, and she was
Speaker 3: working with very high I mean she worked with a
Speaker 3: lot of big people and a lot she helped a
Speaker 3: lot of big companies. I think as well, well, I would.
Speaker 4: Think charging that much back then you would have to
Speaker 4: be working with successful.
Speaker 3: People and I wonder too, because you can only find
Speaker 3: so much information. If she really didn't work for a
Speaker 3: period of time, Let's say she stopped taking clients or something,
Speaker 3: how long was that and was that by choice? Like this,
Speaker 3: the way she wrote this, I just was like, you
Speaker 3: act like you were on the brink of bankruptcy and
Speaker 3: that you were living on the street. You probably were
Speaker 3: living in a very nice house. You probably never really
Speaker 3: changed your lifestyle that drastic. So that's where I'm like,
Speaker 3: she is a genius.
Speaker 4: And because it's not a lie.
Speaker 3: It's not a lie, No, it's just the story is
Speaker 3: told differently and she leaves certain parts out and nobody's
Speaker 3: asking these questions to her. She's very calculated, calculated, very charismatic,
Speaker 3: and I just didn't buy that. And one of her
Speaker 3: big critiques that I read over and over was her arrogance. However,
Speaker 3: there's part of that that I think I was attracted
Speaker 3: to because she was so confident and she had the answer.
Speaker 3: But then at the same time, it's it, there has
Speaker 3: to be a crack somewhere. She hasn't let any of
Speaker 3: that show, and when she does, I feel like even
Speaker 3: that is calculated. Like we were talking earlier when she
Speaker 3: shows that she's relatable, I'm like, is that story real
Speaker 3: or did you just tell that story in.
Speaker 4: A way that would benefit you in the sense that
Speaker 4: she always has a relatable story, even with her guests
Speaker 4: that come on, which that's what I was drawn to
Speaker 4: as well. And I'm sure her story may be true.
Speaker 3: Now I don't know. It might be.
Speaker 4: True but not true, sort of like the first line
Speaker 4: of her bio on her website. I guess it just
Speaker 4: makes you wonder, which the whole reason behind doing this
Speaker 4: again is just so that you can decide if and
Speaker 4: how you're going to trust people, because there's a lot
Speaker 4: of people out there that are selling things and taking
Speaker 4: up a lot of our time and taking up a
Speaker 4: lot of our space. Yeah, and it's like, okay, then
Speaker 4: with this information, then you can start to kind.
Speaker 3: Of who's taking that space up, take a.
Speaker 4: Peek behind the curtain a little bit, and see if
Speaker 4: you want to keep going, and if you do, great,
Speaker 4: Because I guess I'm just reiterating it's not I don't
Speaker 4: want this to feel like a session at all. It's
Speaker 4: just interesting to look at it in that way, because
Speaker 4: I don't know I would read the first line of that,
Speaker 4: and I would be like, oh, interesting, now this could
Speaker 4: happen to me. But because I know we're doing the
Speaker 4: steep dive and you're giving this information, my brain instantly
Speaker 4: went to other people I know that have now been
Speaker 4: exposed and have a reputation of presenting themselves as one
Speaker 4: way when it really was another.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think we have to give it to
Speaker 3: her that she puts herself out there. Like in one
Speaker 3: of the articles I was reading, that was one of
Speaker 3: the things she was talking about. She was worried how
Speaker 3: people were going to perceive her. But that's the price
Speaker 3: you pay. But the price you pay for what? For
Speaker 3: fame or for money? For what was the goal? Was
Speaker 3: that the price you pay for wanting to reach more
Speaker 3: people and help more people, or to make more money.
Speaker 3: I don't have the answer to that, but I do.
Speaker 3: This was just an interesting quote from that article by
Speaker 3: Rachel Baker. She said to her, for TV, you need
Speaker 3: to be relatable. The truth is I probably will never
Speaker 3: have a weight issue because I run, I'm a healthy eater,
Speaker 3: and I'm disciplined. That's a liability. My challenge is will
Speaker 3: they relate to me because I'm a mom and I'm
Speaker 3: from the Midwest, or will they brush me off because
Speaker 3: they think I'm too arrogant or too confident, or that
Speaker 3: my life is too perfect?
Speaker 4: What even then, like I can't relate to that sentence
Speaker 4: at all. What's a right or that statement?
Speaker 3: It just is the interesting thing to say to somebody
Speaker 3: that's interviewing you for an article. You know that's going
Speaker 3: to be an immagazine, Yes, that people around you are
Speaker 3: going to read. And I think that is It's just
Speaker 3: her personality is interesting. I would never say that about myself. Also,
Speaker 3: like I run and I'm a healthy eater too, But
Speaker 3: it doesn't mean that I'm never gonna have it. Was
Speaker 3: just it doesn't mean I'm never gonna have a weight issue.
Speaker 3: Like she just has this skewed sense of reality or
Speaker 3: sense a view of self. She's very privileged, and I
Speaker 3: think that as we move into some of the critique
Speaker 3: about her theory, she is very privileged, and that I
Speaker 3: don't think is ever really acknowledged that she is able
Speaker 3: to do X because she can do this and when
Speaker 3: we are privileged and then we like sell this idea
Speaker 3: that I use the five four three two one and
Speaker 3: change my life and now I'm a millionaire, and so
Speaker 3: can you like, you have to acknowledge both because you're
Speaker 3: setting people up to either always come back and depend
Speaker 3: on you or to be manipulated. Okay, would you rather
Speaker 3: go into the critiques of the actual theory itself or
Speaker 3: do you want to go into the platiarism controversy.
Speaker 4: We can start with the critiques and then we'll get
Speaker 4: into the Okay, platiarism.
Speaker 3: So Therapy for Women is an account on Instagram that
Speaker 3: I really love. She has a podcast and we listen
Speaker 3: to her podcast. Her podcast is called Need for Nuance
Speaker 3: and it's two therapists and they talked about when this
Speaker 3: first came out, what was some of the nuance that
Speaker 3: was not mentioned in it? And so she put a
Speaker 3: carousel on Instagram, and I'm going to read some of
Speaker 3: the stuff that she talked about because I agree with most,
Speaker 3: if not all, of it, and then we can add
Speaker 3: our own thoughts as well. But the first one she
Speaker 3: said why she disagreed with the let them theory, which
Speaker 3: we haven't said what the let them theory is? Do
Speaker 3: you want to explain it? Well?
Speaker 4: Is there a official definition for mel but in a nutshell, which,
Speaker 4: of course, when it first came out. I was saying
Speaker 4: it all the time. I'm pretty sure, like.
Speaker 3: Even on the Bobby Bomb Show.
Speaker 4: I mean we talked about on the podcast, but on
Speaker 4: a national radio show, I was like, oh, you know, Bobby,
Speaker 4: you need to do like Mel Robbins and just let them.
Speaker 4: So when I first heard Mel talk about it, she
Speaker 4: was just doing a selfie style video, and I think
Speaker 4: the example she gave is, like you know, she goes,
Speaker 4: I just heard about this, you know idea or theory
Speaker 4: called let them and you know, if your friends are
Speaker 4: gonna go to lunch without you and not invite you,
Speaker 4: let them. Like it was sort of presented like that
Speaker 4: as like this, don't let it take up space in
Speaker 4: your brain and let it loop and run you ragged,
Speaker 4: Like just let them and move on with your day
Speaker 4: let them.
Speaker 3: Versus share with them that it hurt your feelings and
Speaker 3: that you want to be included. Yeah.
Speaker 4: That, No, I don't remember that. I just feel like
Speaker 4: that was what stuck with me from when I saw it.
Speaker 4: How she gave other examples, and I do see how
Speaker 4: that could be beneficial if it is working you up
Speaker 4: in a way where like if you don't have all
Speaker 4: the facts, like similar to like not making up a
Speaker 4: story that you don't know to be true, which I
Speaker 4: guess you could ask your friends about, like, hey, did
Speaker 4: something happen? I guess you all went to lunch. The
Speaker 4: whole lunch thing. That probably stuck with me because I
Speaker 4: think I've had moments where I've had friends doing something
Speaker 4: and I felt left out, and so I felt like, oh, Okay,
Speaker 4: I can just let them, And I do see how
Speaker 4: that could come in handy if you if you're not
Speaker 4: trying to be dramatic, you don't need to say anything
Speaker 4: because like, what if there was a reason you weren't
Speaker 4: invited that you don't need to know about, or it
Speaker 4: really doesn't matter. You can just let them. But I
Speaker 4: just know bigger situations and scenarios in life where let
Speaker 4: them just isn't.
Speaker 3: Going to work.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but I think Mel even addresses that some right Eventually.
Speaker 3: I didn't finish the book. So this also reminded me
Speaker 3: of that other podcast that we listen to. It was
Speaker 3: Are You Up? Was the dating dating one? So she
Speaker 3: did her podcast tour for her book, and it was
Speaker 3: interesting that she was even on that podcast because it
Speaker 3: was about dating and so they were trying to get
Speaker 3: her to relate it to the dating scenarios, and I
Speaker 3: think that the hosts were being real realistic, like, Okay,
Speaker 3: we get she's saying like if somebody doesn't, oh my gosh,
Speaker 3: do you listen to that?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 3: If you guys want to entertain yourself, listen to the
Speaker 3: first five minutes because she is so aggressive, and she
Speaker 3: was like, I'm going to tell you what's wrong with
Speaker 3: your dating life, and the problem is you there's a way,
Speaker 3: and there's a nuance, and there's just a finesse to
Speaker 3: sharing information when somebody's getting in their own way that
Speaker 3: most people are not going to listen to. They're going
Speaker 3: to Okay, you're mean, I feel attacked now I'm defensive.
Speaker 3: So that's just not a from a honestly from a
Speaker 3: helping standpoint, that's not the way to help somebody.
Speaker 4: Was that more of her life coach vibes like do
Speaker 4: you think thanks? People were paying three point fifty yeah,
Speaker 4: plus a session like that that's the version she was
Speaker 4: getting of, like, well, I don't.
Speaker 3: Give a f what you think.
Speaker 4: Like there was somewhere in that episode they asked a
Speaker 4: question about what a listener might be feeling, and she's not.
Speaker 3: My effing problem.
Speaker 4: Yeah, well they're not my effing problem. And I was like, oh, ouch,
Speaker 4: Like yeah, it did not feel like a helper, yeah
Speaker 4: at all.
Speaker 3: I think they asked like if if somebody who's listening
Speaker 3: to this is having a hard time grasping this concept
Speaker 3: that like if somebody doesn't want to date, you just
Speaker 3: let them, or if somebody doesn't answer your text, just
Speaker 3: let them. If somebody doesn't blah blah blah blah, let them.
Speaker 3: They were like, we grasp the idea, but for somebody
Speaker 3: who isn't able to just like grab that when they
Speaker 3: really feelings are involved, when they like somebody, when they
Speaker 3: want to know what they did wrong, like how do
Speaker 3: you get them to like get there? They were like
Speaker 3: valid question, like what's the route? And she was like
Speaker 3: if they don't want to get there, that's not my
Speaker 3: effing problem, or if they can't grasp this, it's they're
Speaker 3: not my effing problem. And I just was like, well,
Speaker 3: I mean, you're you're saying that you're trying to help them,
Speaker 3: so you're making them your problem and that you have
Speaker 3: the solution, and if they don't like your solution, then
Speaker 3: you're like f off.
Speaker 4: It felt very aggressive and I remember my brain instantly
Speaker 4: thinking like, oh, would she have talked this way on
Speaker 4: Oprah's podcast?
Speaker 3: And maybe she did.
Speaker 4: I don't know, because I was already disenchanted with her
Speaker 4: by the time she went on Oprah, so I didn't
Speaker 4: even watch or listen to the full thing. I just
Speaker 4: saw clips online. But I wondered if her demeanor was
Speaker 4: the same with Oprah as it was with them, because
Speaker 4: she was very, very, very aggressive. I was confused by yeah,
Speaker 4: and you can side of her. You can be I think,
Speaker 4: confident and strong. And again, one thing that drew me
Speaker 4: to her in the beginning is she had this like
Speaker 4: you just wanted to believe her. She just she believed
Speaker 4: what she was saying, so you want to believe it.
Speaker 4: And I, as a early therapist, was struggling with my
Speaker 4: confidence and how to show up. One of my mentors
Speaker 4: actually told me one time. They were like, you need
Speaker 4: to harness your inner bitch, and I was like, I
Speaker 4: can't do that.
Speaker 3: But then I saw mel Robinson, I was like, I
Speaker 3: can be like her. It was like I got drawn in.
Speaker 3: But then that feels very different, the confidence than what
Speaker 3: she was showing on that podcast. It almost felt like
Speaker 3: she didn't like that. People were kind of poking holes
Speaker 3: of saying like, well, we need more because she didn't
Speaker 3: have the answer to that, right, So the critique said
Speaker 3: the women from Therapy for Women had We're going to
Speaker 3: just talk about each one.
Speaker 1: There's five.
Speaker 3: The first one is it can be an excuse. The
Speaker 3: first one is it can be an excuse. So so
Speaker 3: to avoid hard conversations or learn how to compromise. There's
Speaker 3: a difference between letting someone go versus using let them
Speaker 3: to avoid necessary conversations in long term relationships. I would
Speaker 3: have loved this five ten years ago, last year even
Speaker 3: like to be able to just like let them. I'm
Speaker 3: not gonna confront that. It's actually, i think, creating more
Speaker 3: distance in your relationships than actually helping you. So number
Speaker 3: two is it's marketed as a one size fits all solution.
Speaker 3: When you try to apply a one size fits all
Speaker 3: solution and it doesn't work, the message becomes if this
Speaker 3: doesn't work for you, you're the problem.
Speaker 4: Hmmm, which is sort of her was her demeanor on
Speaker 4: that podcast, Yes okay.
Speaker 3: Which she probably would double down on, like you don't
Speaker 3: want it bad enough, or you're stuck and you're not
Speaker 3: listening or something like that number three. It can create
Speaker 3: shame if saying let them doesn't work or feels unhelpful.
Speaker 3: Change is messy, it's nonlinear, and it takes time. It's
Speaker 3: not something you can fix with a simple catchphrase. And
Speaker 3: I think that's something that I have feelings about, where
Speaker 3: like I love catchphrases like that, like the waight to worry,
Speaker 3: Like I like the idea of let them. I have
Speaker 3: some of those slow equals fast is one that I
Speaker 3: use in my office a lot, but those I'm not writing.
Speaker 4: And it's about yeah, no, like we didn't, we didn't
Speaker 4: just and.
Speaker 3: We're not applying that to every situation, right.
Speaker 4: We think they can come in handy. They're a tool
Speaker 4: to keep in your back pocket.
Speaker 3: But that wouldn't sell if she was like, I have
Speaker 3: a tool that sometimes could work for you in certain
Speaker 3: situations and sometimes might not make any sense. Who's behind
Speaker 3: that like that? I think that's the problem with That's
Speaker 3: what I run into issues with a lot of like
Speaker 3: the self help gurus, a lot of the Jay Shetties
Speaker 3: of the world, a lot of the mel Robin of
Speaker 3: the world, is that to sell something, you have to
Speaker 3: create this like mph about it, and most of the
Speaker 3: reality of therapy. I mean we say this all the time.
Speaker 3: Remember when we did that little game when you asked
Speaker 3: me about the different anxiety tools and now was like,
Speaker 3: sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
Speaker 4: Well, I asked you to rate them on a scale
Speaker 4: of one to ten because a lot of therapists were
Speaker 4: doing it online and it was super cute, and they
Speaker 4: would just give a direct number. They'd be like waited
Speaker 4: blankets five, coal plunges seven, journaling nine, therapy tit like
Speaker 4: you were like, every time you try to answer, you're like, well,
Speaker 4: it depends, which is so true. It does depend, Like
Speaker 4: there is no blanketing number that will work for everybody.
Speaker 4: For some people, journaling is absolutely going to be a
Speaker 4: nine or a ten, and then for somebody else it's
Speaker 4: going to be a one.
Speaker 3: Well, guess what that reel that we made with that
Speaker 3: didn't go viral and that's probably want it's not that interesting,
Speaker 3: Like that's the reality of you'll help and real therapy
Speaker 3: is it's like not that interesting. Sometimes it's like not
Speaker 3: that sexy. Yes, which the let them theory, Oh my gosh,
Speaker 3: if the way she actually well, actually I'm gonna read
Speaker 3: chain and just gave us her website definition of let
Speaker 3: them theory. The let them theory is a step by
Speaker 3: step guide on how to stop letting other people's opinions, drama,
Speaker 3: and judgment impact your life. Two simple words, let them
Speaker 3: will set you free from the exhausting cycle of trying
Speaker 3: to manage everything and everyone around you. It's time to
Speaker 3: build a life where you come first, your dreams, your goals,
Speaker 3: your happiness.
Speaker 4: Like, okay, I want that, but okay, and it says
Speaker 4: I'm going to reiterate two simple words, let them will
Speaker 4: set you free from the exhausting cycle of trying to
Speaker 4: manage everything and everyone around you.
Speaker 3: Versus come to therapy and maybe we might be able
Speaker 3: to find some help for you to feel better sometimes.
Speaker 4: But that is a bold claim. Yeah, two words that
Speaker 4: are going to set you free.
Speaker 3: Yeah. And I think the other thing is like, you can't.
Speaker 3: She gotta be sued for false advertising, because again, if
Speaker 3: it doesn't work, it's your fault. It's not because there's
Speaker 3: something wrong with my theory. It's that you're not doing
Speaker 3: the things that you're supposed to do. You're not buying
Speaker 3: into it, or you're whatever. Anyway, next one number four.
Speaker 3: It doesn't address the root cause of issues, which I
Speaker 3: think we've kind of talked about. Shouting let them at
Speaker 3: someone who is in an abusive relationship or has trauma
Speaker 3: is unhelpful. That is a big one.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I do feel like in fairness though, I believe
Speaker 4: mel again, you didn't finish the book, but this can't
Speaker 4: apply to if you're in an abusive relationship. There's no
Speaker 4: way she would be like, well, let them.
Speaker 3: I haven't read the book either. And there is a
Speaker 3: second part where it's like let me.
Speaker 4: Which also is plagiarized from from the same person, Cassie Fast. Okay, well,
Speaker 4: I'm excited to get to the plagiarized part because then
Speaker 4: don't want to talk about the prom part, because there
Speaker 4: was no problem in the original video. Yeah, there was
Speaker 4: only like the example of like your friends going to
Speaker 4: lunch without.
Speaker 3: You, the receipts don't match up. That's right, There is receipts. Right,
Speaker 3: there are receipts. The last critique of this, which is
Speaker 3: what we're getting into, is it was plagiarized. The original
Speaker 3: concept came from a poem called let Them by Cassie
Speaker 3: Phillips about setting boundaries with people who don't value you
Speaker 3: while remaining open to those who do so shall we
Speaker 3: we shall. I will also say, on top of all that,
Speaker 3: which is a thing with a lot of self help
Speaker 3: stuff too is and a lot of the stuff with
Speaker 3: Jay Shetty is like these repackaging things that already exist.
Speaker 3: She's repackaging one, this poem that already exists. But the
Speaker 3: let them theory is somewhat like radical acceptance to which
Speaker 3: we've talked about on here, which is part of DBT,
Speaker 3: which is a part of a therapy that's already been created.
Speaker 4: I wonder if she addresses that, I don't know in
Speaker 4: the book. Probably not, she'd be giving credit to something else.
Speaker 3: I don't think she probably does, because one and then
Speaker 3: it's she also says that she discovered this. She doesn't
Speaker 3: say she created it. She says over and over, I discovered.
Speaker 4: This theory from her daughter, right, So, but that's not true.
Speaker 3: Well, you know, we're gonna get into that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, But that's the part where I'm like, well, it's
Speaker 4: my mind.
Speaker 3: And a lot of the way she's talking about it,
Speaker 3: and a lot of her press she says, I discovered it.
Speaker 3: I discovered I discovered it, like I came upon this thing,
Speaker 3: not I created it, And I think that's her way
Speaker 3: of gatting around it. So I want you to tell
Speaker 3: your story, because you heard about this before me, and
Speaker 3: then you started kind of putting the dots together. And
Speaker 3: then I found some of this on the internet and
Speaker 3: I was like, look, it's true, so you tell me.
Speaker 4: So back to my closet. I'm just scrolling Instagram or
Speaker 4: I do it.
Speaker 3: Oh we were locked in your closet.
Speaker 4: No, I was just it's just where I was in
Speaker 4: my house. Like you'd never hang out in your closet.
Speaker 3: A clause is not that big. I wasn't locked in it.
Speaker 4: No, I guess I would just sit in there sometimes
Speaker 4: when my bathroom was like all connected. But I remember
Speaker 4: that's exactly where I was. And the video hadn't even
Speaker 4: gone viral yet. It just was a video that popped up.
Speaker 4: And then later I kept seeing it. I was like, oh,
Speaker 4: this really popped off, like this is now blown up.
Speaker 4: And I think even for mel she saw that and
Speaker 4: she was like, oh there's something here, there's something to this.
Speaker 4: People are loving this. Let them theory. And I'm sure
Speaker 4: with her genius brain, she's like, I better take this
Speaker 4: momentum and let's go. Let's create a whole movement, a book,
Speaker 4: all the things. So I do know that I saw
Speaker 4: her kind of she was just she made a selfie
Speaker 4: style video. It seemed like she was maybe out on
Speaker 4: her porch or something, and she was like, Hey, I
Speaker 4: gotta tell y'all, I just learned about this idea of
Speaker 4: let them. And I don't remember all the examples that
Speaker 4: she gave, but I do remember she did not talk
Speaker 4: about prom with her daughter, mentioning it to her, which
Speaker 4: in the book when the little parts that I did
Speaker 4: read in the things that I know about her promotion
Speaker 4: around it is that it came to her through her daughter.
Speaker 3: When they were sending her son off to prom.
Speaker 4: He hadn't put a lot of thought into it, kind
Speaker 4: of decided to go last minute, and she, as the mom,
Speaker 4: was really frustrated, like the weather was bad. They were
Speaker 4: just going to go to some taco truck and she's like,
Speaker 4: we should really be making reservations and it's going to
Speaker 4: write and like she was just as a mom, Like
Speaker 4: I'm paraphrasing obviously, and that at one point during it all,
Speaker 4: her daughter it was like, Mom, let them, it's his
Speaker 4: prom Let them if they want.
Speaker 3: To go to a taco truck.
Speaker 4: Let them if they want to do this, let them
Speaker 4: and that at that moment, Mel was like, you're right,
Speaker 4: and then the story went from there. But that's not
Speaker 4: where it started because I remember when she first posted
Speaker 4: about it and she didn't say anything about her daughter
Speaker 4: or prom. And then since then too, the sluthor's online
Speaker 4: or whatever you call them, tons of people have collected
Speaker 4: the receipts and done the research and.
Speaker 3: The timeline they had.
Speaker 4: They put the original Mel video before prom so like that,
Speaker 4: you have the timeline, Okay.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I have the video too. It's still there,
Speaker 3: so you guys can go fact check this. So what's
Speaker 3: I have the timeline that a woman named Sage Justice.
Speaker 3: She has a substat called Sage Words. She created a
Speaker 3: whole timeline on this in a couple articles. I think
Speaker 3: really to give help give Cassie a voice and help
Speaker 3: get her the credit where credit was due. And I
Speaker 3: want to say before I go into this, that's the problem,
Speaker 3: not that she took somebody else's poem and then created
Speaker 3: a book about it, because she could have done that
Speaker 3: in the right way. And what is that Picasso quote?
Speaker 3: That's like good artists borrow great artist steel like we're
Speaker 3: all taking information from other people and creating new things.
Speaker 3: That's fine. She could have done that and put Cassie's
Speaker 3: poem in the beginning of the book as like a prologue.
Speaker 3: That would have been so cool for Cassie and for Mel.
Speaker 3: So my issue is it would have been so easy
Speaker 3: to lift this woman up, versus she's acting like it
Speaker 3: never happened.
Speaker 4: This entire scenario was the downfall of my relationship with Mel.
Speaker 4: I was still on board and very much a fan.
Speaker 4: This situation with Cassie is what lifted the veil the
Speaker 4: tiniest bit, and then the veil got fully lifted and
Speaker 4: I could not even finish the book. Yeah, and my
Speaker 4: sister knew I wanted that book, and before my sister
Speaker 4: pre ordered it, I think she pre ordered like six
Speaker 4: of them.
Speaker 3: And my sister and I would call and we would
Speaker 3: talk about mel roblems.
Speaker 4: We'd exchange like instagrams, like I'd text her this or
Speaker 4: texted that, Oh, we'll go see what Mel said here. Yes,
Speaker 4: like I was a fan, like this just really bums
Speaker 4: me out, Like I'm like, it yucked your yum it,
Speaker 4: this really yucks my youm because dang it, I was
Speaker 4: excited to read the book, and then I wasn't, and
Speaker 4: then I sent it. I donated it to goodwill, so
Speaker 4: somebody else canna have it. Somebody else could have it
Speaker 4: if they want it, and maybe they need it and
Speaker 4: it'd be perfect for them at whatever season of life
Speaker 4: that they're in. But the season I'm in, it just
Speaker 4: seemed very if and it was not cool.
Speaker 3: And then it was not cool, mel, this is not cool.
Speaker 3: I just felt bummed like I'd been duped because you
Speaker 3: were duped. That's the feeling, and that feeling is so maddening.
Speaker 3: Oh that's why I'm so skeptical. So let me read
Speaker 3: you the timeline. Also, we got the quote it's good
Speaker 3: artist copy, great artists steel, so it's okay to take
Speaker 3: Also like she could have because they're really is if
Speaker 3: we think about it, there's nobody has original thoughts. However,
Speaker 3: this could have been a really cool opportunity to help somebody.
Speaker 4: And we're all inspired by so many people, like yeah,
Speaker 4: bring her alongside, like I don't know why it had
Speaker 4: to be the prom story versus a poem, right, and
Speaker 4: then also even with her daughter, what really me? Okay, sorry,
Speaker 4: I had a pre ordered copy, so I have the
Speaker 4: og which you can say that sorry, you're the teacher.
Speaker 4: You're the teacher. I didn't know what all you had prepared.
Speaker 3: Well, I'm just going to read this thing and then
Speaker 3: you tell I know you're about to say. Okay, else
Speaker 3: we'll never get to the timeline. Okay, time, Okay, the timeline.
Speaker 3: So in twenty nineteen, Cassie Phillips writes the poem let Them.
Speaker 3: September twenty twenty two, the poem let Them by Cassie
Speaker 3: Phillips goes viral. October twenty twenty two, the poem let
Speaker 3: You by Cassie Phillips goes viral. Oh well, so in
Speaker 3: Mel's book, though, the other part is let me, good
Speaker 3: job mail. That one's on you. Okay, I think I didn't.
Speaker 3: I think that's right. I didn't get to that part
Speaker 3: of the book. But in May thirteenth, twenty twenty three,
Speaker 3: Mel Robbins makes viral TikTok sharing the discovery of let Them.
Speaker 4: That's kind of cool to know that on May thirteenth,
Speaker 4: twenty twenty three, I was in my closet based on
Speaker 4: that information that I know.
Speaker 3: That nowhere was yeah, May twentieth, May twentieth, which comes
Speaker 3: after the thirteenth, twenty twenty three, the prom where Mel
Speaker 3: claims the origin story of her discovery.
Speaker 4: Happened so seven days later.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's weird how time works that way. Also, I
Speaker 3: feel like I saw somewhere and somebody can fact check
Speaker 3: me on this, because I don't have it written down
Speaker 3: right now. I think she interacted with Cassie's poem at
Speaker 3: some point.
Speaker 4: Well, all I know is earlier this year, when I
Speaker 4: was trying to read the book and I was starting
Speaker 4: to get perturbed because of this Cassie business. I did
Speaker 4: see that Cassie had posted somewhere some interactions with her, and.
Speaker 3: Mel can't say she doesn't know this person exists. May
Speaker 3: twenty twenty four. This is interesting. Mel Robins files to
Speaker 3: trademark the phrase let Them September. October twenty twenty four,
Speaker 3: Meil Robins announced she wrote a let Them book. December
Speaker 3: twenty twenty four, she publishes the book that let Them there,
Speaker 3: and she was not able to get the trademark for
Speaker 3: whatever she was trademarking it for, because you can't just
Speaker 3: trademark a random thing that you don't have, No, like,
Speaker 3: I can't trademark. What's up, guys? I have no like
Speaker 3: content or anything that comes around that.
Speaker 4: Well, she is it because she filed for the trademark
Speaker 4: before she had the books, because if she had the book,
Speaker 4: then she could file for the trademark and say that
Speaker 4: that's like because I don't know the only thing I've
Speaker 4: ever filed for is under like the podcast and then
Speaker 4: clothing apparel, and you have to have a created product
Speaker 4: and be using it and selling it.
Speaker 3: Well, so she tried to trademark for because if you
Speaker 3: look on like Etsy and stuff, there's tons of stuff
Speaker 3: that creators and artists and stuff make that says let them.
Speaker 4: Maybe it was too generic.
Speaker 3: I think it was too that was it was like
Speaker 3: too generic. She can probably trademark the let them theory now,
Speaker 3: but you can't just trademark that because then all also
Speaker 3: doing that puts all those people that already that are
Speaker 3: already creating that content out of business, Like that hurts
Speaker 3: these little people.
Speaker 4: Well, if she were to obtain the trademark and she
Speaker 4: chose to take action on the little people, then it
Speaker 4: would impact them if she let them, she let them
Speaker 4: just do it. She could be like, let them, let
Speaker 4: them keep using it, yes, because that's really when you're
Speaker 4: only gonna get impacted is if someone decides to pursue
Speaker 4: legal action. Getch you like, the government's not gonna say anything,
Speaker 4: But she could. She found that.
Speaker 3: This is sort of what I was trying to say.
Speaker 4: Yes, it is possible to trademark a phrase or a slogan,
Speaker 4: but it must be used to identify goods or services
Speaker 4: and be distinctive enough to function as a trademark. To
Speaker 4: trademark a phrase, it needs to be more than just
Speaker 4: a common saying. It should be used to distinguish your
Speaker 4: brand and its offerings in the marketplace.
Speaker 3: But if she had.
Speaker 4: Clothing with it on there, or the book or different
Speaker 4: things where she's using it and it's tied to her,
Speaker 4: then she could.
Speaker 3: She could. Before you say the other thing that I
Speaker 3: was like, don't say that yet, I found that Cassie,
Speaker 3: the original girl that wrote this poem, she credited the
Speaker 3: idea or their inspiration from her poem to the Medea video.
Speaker 3: Do you know who media is like the Tyler Tyler Perry?
Speaker 4: Of course I know Medea Hallelujah.
Speaker 3: She has a viral YouTube video which we can post
Speaker 3: the link because it's interesting and it's called let Them Go,
Speaker 3: and in it she says, if somebody wants to walk
Speaker 3: out of your life, let them go. So that inspired
Speaker 3: her poem and I'm like that right, there is all
Speaker 3: you had to do. Like, just like Cassie was like,
Speaker 3: oh this thing inspired this. It doesn't take away from
Speaker 3: her poem. It was like, Oh, that's cool to know
Speaker 3: the story of where that came from, the same thing
Speaker 3: Mel could have done.
Speaker 4: But I guess she felt like crediting her daughter. Oh yes,
Speaker 4: which I feel like if I was her daughter, I
Speaker 4: might be like, Mom, I saw you post a video
Speaker 4: seven days ago talking about let them and then yeah,
Speaker 4: I said that to you for the problem. Like me,
Speaker 4: her daughter did say that.
Speaker 3: But then her daughter doesn't have as much power as
Speaker 3: her mom.
Speaker 4: Well obviously not, because that was what I was trying
Speaker 4: to say earlier, was that her daughter worked with her
Speaker 4: mom on this book side by side. They posted about
Speaker 4: it multiple times. I don't even know, like.
Speaker 3: A year of research.
Speaker 4: They acted like they were sitting at the kitchen table
Speaker 4: just day and night, working on this project together. And
Speaker 4: then her name was not on the book. Yeah, that
Speaker 4: really crazy through me. But then you told me on
Speaker 4: later editions because I had a pre order copy that
Speaker 4: when it was reprinted or the new books were printed
Speaker 4: that her daughter was added in smaller, smaller font font.
Speaker 3: On International Women's Day and this is my thing about
Speaker 3: Like she's like, oh, what a gift. Yes, she made
Speaker 3: this announcement, like I'm doing this thing for my daughter,
Speaker 3: And I'm like, no, you're just putting the other author's
Speaker 3: name on the book that should have already been there.
Speaker 3: You should have put her a long time ago.
Speaker 4: It doesn't make sense you didn't include her, especially if
Speaker 4: she's the entire inspiration for the thing.
Speaker 3: But what a way to spin that of like oh,
Speaker 3: I just was waiting to do this as a International
Speaker 3: Women's Day to support women, like versus being like, yeah,
Speaker 3: I was kind of narcissistic and I didn't put my
Speaker 3: daughter's name on it. That was a mistake. I should
Speaker 3: change it. So this is all leads me to like
Speaker 3: the kind of wrap up of mine.
Speaker 4: Like how does that conversation go, Like I'm honestly trying
Speaker 4: to picture it, Like does she like I know you've
Speaker 4: been by my side and you're the one that told
Speaker 4: me about this let them theory? Like remember remember when
Speaker 4: when your brother was going to prom and you were like, mom,
Speaker 4: let them let them go to the taco truck. And
Speaker 4: then we were like, oh, let's write a book. And
Speaker 4: then you sat by my side and we did all
Speaker 4: the research and we worked on it together. You know
Speaker 4: how we've done that. But I just been letting you
Speaker 4: know that only my name is going to be on
Speaker 4: the book. So thank you for everything inspiring this entire thing,
Speaker 4: but only my name. Like how does she even say that?
Speaker 4: Like how do you say that? And you know what,
Speaker 4: if you, if you have any thoughts or feelings about this,
Speaker 4: I need you to just you know, go high five yourself.
Speaker 3: In the mirror and kind down.
Speaker 1: Let them.
Speaker 4: Mom, just give yourself a five, four three two one
Speaker 4: some water. High five yourself in the mirror and then
Speaker 4: say let them.
Speaker 3: Like is that what you tell your daughter? But that's
Speaker 3: the crazy thing is like the theory would say that
Speaker 3: the daughter should say.
Speaker 4: Let them, Yeah, let them.
Speaker 3: Can't do anything about it. She doesn't want to give
Speaker 3: you credit for these hours and hours and hours and
Speaker 3: hours of work that you put into this project that's
Speaker 3: gonna make her millions of dollars.
Speaker 4: Let them, let them. If someone's gonna take your idea,
Speaker 4: I mean, because really this is the mom. Okay, she
Speaker 4: took it from Cassie or whatever. She was inspired and
Speaker 4: Cassie got it from Medea.
Speaker 3: A fictional character. I love Medea.
Speaker 4: My mom loved media movies. Every time there was an
Speaker 4: Adia movie, my mom was watching it. Yes, like always
Speaker 4: have a special place in my heart, which Tyler Perry
Speaker 4: is speaking of, like who can we trust anymore? He
Speaker 4: was in the news recently of stuff, and I'm like,
Speaker 4: please don't let that be true. Please don't let that
Speaker 4: be true. Maybe it is, and if it is, to
Speaker 4: the victim, like I will now have to be like, ugh,
Speaker 4: Tyler Perry, you suck. I don't know, because claims can
Speaker 4: be made and I don't know. I haven't followed up
Speaker 4: the details there, but I'm like, dang it, I don't
Speaker 4: like reports like that, but thankfully truth should come out.
Speaker 4: So I do like reports like that, But you get
Speaker 4: what I'm saying.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think that these situations, whether it's Tyler Perry,
Speaker 3: Mel Robbins, Rachel Hollis, whatever, when we find the cracks
Speaker 3: in the like too good to be true stories of
Speaker 3: these people that we're looking up to or that we're
Speaker 3: gaining insight from where we're learning from, we're not able
Speaker 3: to like get the what's the cart before the horse, Like,
Speaker 3: we're not able to know the information until we know it.
Speaker 3: So I think the glimmer in this whole conversation is
Speaker 3: that you are allowed to change your mind at any point,
Speaker 3: like when you find more information about somebody that leads
Speaker 3: you to say like, oh, I don't think they had
Speaker 3: my best interest at heart. You're allowed to change your
Speaker 3: mind about how you feel about them. And I think
Speaker 3: you're a perfect We both are perfect examples because I
Speaker 3: once loved her too, and the more we learned, the
Speaker 3: more we were like, oh, I don't know that I'm
Speaker 3: going to take everything with the same weight as I
Speaker 3: once took from her. I'm going to think more. So
Speaker 3: we came up with some things to look for or
Speaker 3: ask yourself when you are looking to somebody, whether it's
Speaker 3: a boss, a friend, a mentor, a famous person, a
Speaker 3: self help person, a therapist, a teacher, there are some
Speaker 3: things to ask yourself that might help you not get
Speaker 3: too far in before you see kind.
Speaker 1: Of the light.
Speaker 4: But these are the questions that we came up with
Speaker 4: whenever I was paying money to a face fitness person.
Speaker 3: They're not the same, they're similar that's not exactly the same,
Speaker 3: but those are all that's how to spot a scammer.
Speaker 3: Oh so they're similar, They're very similar. Yeah, well, and.
Speaker 4: It makes me think of even Tony Robbins backstory, which
Speaker 4: I know this isn't a deep dive on him, and
Speaker 4: I don't know the full thing, but in Mel's first
Speaker 4: line of her bio sentence, like, Tony's story is this
Speaker 4: whole you know, grew up very poor, single mom. Like
Speaker 4: he feeds a lot of people now, like millions, maybe
Speaker 4: even dare I say billions. I feel like he's put
Speaker 4: out an astronomical number of like meals that he has
Speaker 4: provided for people. And you know, it goes back to
Speaker 4: this story of how he was helped as a child,
Speaker 4: And then I'm like, I hope he was. I'm sure
Speaker 4: he was, but it seems like a lot of people
Speaker 4: follow him. I once thought about going to one of
Speaker 4: his conferences. Well, but I would have to pay a
Speaker 4: lot of money to go and then have him yell
Speaker 4: at me to walk on coal. But I think that'd
Speaker 4: be cool.
Speaker 3: I feel like I just went so many places with you.
Speaker 3: I feel like, also though the Rags to Riches is
Speaker 3: so like I'm drawn to that, like, again, if they
Speaker 3: can do it, we can do it, So we can
Speaker 3: add that to it.
Speaker 4: Oprah.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, Oprah. There's some cracks an Oprah story too.
Speaker 3: Don't tell me.
Speaker 4: I don't want to know.
Speaker 3: Crowdcat's like mm hmmm.
Speaker 4: Maybe later we could do it. We could do an
Speaker 4: Oprah deep dive. But she's someone that definitely did not
Speaker 4: have privilege, that's for sure.
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, I think Mel had a lot more privilege
Speaker 3: than Oprah. Did You can say that, well, yeah, I
Speaker 3: mean Mel is never going to get fat. She runs
Speaker 3: and she eats healthy. I can't believe she said that.
Speaker 4: And I know I derailed us with the whole Tony
Speaker 4: Robbins thing, but it just made me think of people
Speaker 4: that I am drawn to at times because of their
Speaker 4: story and then their charismatic behavior, and that I would
Speaker 4: pay money to go to one of their events because
Speaker 4: I think it would be cool and the energy there
Speaker 4: would be awesome, Like.
Speaker 3: A Rachel Hollis's conference before her downfall.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm sure that those were really exciting and fun
Speaker 4: and fun and like you felt like this community and connection.
Speaker 4: So that's why I think it's important that I particularly
Speaker 4: pay attention to these signs or these poverment.
Speaker 3: What do you have? Questions? Questions that we need to ask. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 3: so five questions. Keep it short and simple. One is
Speaker 3: it too good to be true? If it's all encompassing,
Speaker 3: you might want to do a little bit more digging.
Speaker 3: Two do their actions match their words? I mean, are
Speaker 3: they practicing what they're preaching?
Speaker 4: And this is how we can know if we can
Speaker 4: trust somebody. These are the questions we're going to ask ourselves. Okay,
Speaker 4: is it too good to be true? Do their actions
Speaker 4: match their words?
Speaker 3: Three? How do they handle critique and accountability?
Speaker 4: So you have to really like dive deep into that
Speaker 4: if you don't have a relationship with this person, because like,
Speaker 4: even for seeing how Mel handled some critique, we had
Speaker 4: to go listen to all these other yeah, but the podcasts,
Speaker 4: but maybe it would maybe once you see it, you
Speaker 4: may even notice sit in her own everywhere.
Speaker 3: Okay. I think that's the other thing is I think
Speaker 3: you're experiencing once the veil is lifted, you see it
Speaker 3: everywhere because those are now the lenses that you're looking
Speaker 3: through versus the rose colored glasses that like, she can
Speaker 3: do no wrong and she's so nice and she wants
Speaker 3: to help, BUTZ like, no, she's a businesswoman and she
Speaker 3: wants you to buy.
Speaker 4: Her book and she's a genius.
Speaker 3: Yeah, she's pretty smart. Number four, do they show humility
Speaker 3: or just authority? This one is tricky because I think
Speaker 3: mel shows her humility in a an authentic way, but
Speaker 3: really she wants to she wants she wants to feel
Speaker 3: like she's just like us, but in other areas she
Speaker 3: wants us to not be able to relate to her.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's manufactured humility, it's am.
Speaker 3: And then the last one, number five, what do they
Speaker 3: gain from your trust? Are they guiding, helping, or just selling?
Speaker 3: So are they guiding you or are they helping you
Speaker 3: or they just selling a product? And I think that's
Speaker 3: one that you can go back to what we talked
Speaker 3: about in the beginning, is in with marketing, Like they're
Speaker 3: always supposed to leave you wanting one more thing, and
Speaker 3: if they're solving this problem, to create this problem, to
Speaker 3: then solve this other problem for you, if you continue
Speaker 3: to need, need, need, There's a difference in wanting, like
Speaker 3: I want to listen to certain podcasts, I want to
Speaker 3: read certain authors books. They're fun, they're entertaining, I gained
Speaker 3: something from them, but I don't feel tied to them,
Speaker 3: Like if they stopped their podcast, I would die. If
Speaker 3: they never wrote another book, I don't know what I
Speaker 3: would do, Like I can't go to anybody else for
Speaker 3: that type of help, guidance or entertainment. That's I think
Speaker 3: where you're like, well, and.
Speaker 4: I'm thinking about you as a therapist, and I would
Speaker 4: think that your goal would be eventually for your client
Speaker 4: to spread their wings and do whatever. I mean, therapy
Speaker 4: can be on and off. Doesn't mean like if you
Speaker 4: have a client that's coming in and just constantly needing
Speaker 4: you all the time, you may wonder I'm not doing
Speaker 4: my job.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think there's again a difference in therapy
Speaker 3: where there's yeah, the goal.
Speaker 4: Because you have a living to make too, and I
Speaker 4: think helpers need to make money. So I guess I'm
Speaker 4: trying to also have some discernment around how can you
Speaker 4: tell if a helper who also is trying to make
Speaker 4: a living is just selling, because like you could maybe
Speaker 4: I'm sure there are some therapists actually that do it
Speaker 4: or guides in whatever way that just keep what they
Speaker 4: don't care if their client gets any help. Date as
Speaker 4: long as they're coming and writing a check.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that definitely exists. I think there's also in therapy
Speaker 3: a difference in because a lot of times I'll see
Speaker 3: clients and I might see in them every week for
Speaker 3: two years, and then they'll go to every other week,
Speaker 3: and then they'll go to once a month, and then
Speaker 3: randomly they'll come back and they're like, I have this issue?
Speaker 3: Can I come back for weekly sessions? And it shifts.
Speaker 3: There's also clients that just like going to weekly therapy,
Speaker 3: but they know that they don't need to come. It's
Speaker 3: they're actively making that choice. And I think that's the
Speaker 3: difference of like that feeling of well, if you go
Speaker 3: on vacation, what will I do? Versus Okay, I'll see
Speaker 3: you next week, but I'll be looking forward to it,
Speaker 3: you know, like our job, yes, is to work ourselves
Speaker 3: out of a job, if that makes sense.
Speaker 4: Yeah, But lucky for you, there's always going to be
Speaker 4: messed up, broken people because.
Speaker 3: We have to pick up the pieces of Mel Robbins.
Speaker 3: So I love that was both entertaining and fun, and
Speaker 3: I hope it helps people again have their own discernment
Speaker 3: and so then they can be in charge. Like I
Speaker 3: like having agency over what I pay, like what I buy,
Speaker 3: what I pay attention to, what I listen to, and
Speaker 3: know what I give my time to. Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, because if I'm going to be watching somebody's videos
Speaker 4: or reading their books, yeah, and then trusting your gut
Speaker 4: and listening to it. Like when I knew it was like, wait,
Speaker 4: why am I reading this? I have to put this down?
Speaker 4: And I have zero interest in picking back up, which
Speaker 4: was shocking to me because I was really excited to
Speaker 4: read it. But anyway, let them let us. If people
Speaker 4: didn't like this episode, let them.
Speaker 3: If people don't like us them, let them. If you
Speaker 3: want to feedback here just kidding, we actually love If
Speaker 3: you want to leave a bad review, don't just email us.
Speaker 3: I think you and I both we've said this before.
Speaker 3: We're open to feedback and critique whatever you want to
Speaker 3: send our way. I think it would be helpful if
Speaker 3: you just send it to us so we can work
Speaker 3: through it. Like, does it have to be on a
Speaker 3: public platform? No, I don't think I say that. I
Speaker 3: don't know. I think no.
Speaker 4: Mel would be like, send this episode to everybody in
Speaker 4: your family that needs to hear good lives. It's going
Speaker 4: to change their lives, which I've admitted to even in
Speaker 4: some of our titles at times like oh and it's
Speaker 4: not just mel there's tons of podcasters that do it
Speaker 4: that kind of just hook you with the title of
Speaker 4: like you need to do this every day or you're
Speaker 4: going to die. And I'm like, Okay, yeah, we're going
Speaker 4: to give that a go. And we've tried that, and
Speaker 4: we have not tried that, not that exact same is
Speaker 4: there's a little hyperbole there, but I just wanted to
Speaker 4: put emphasis on that we've given that a go, and
Speaker 4: it didn't feel authentic to us, like even we were
Speaker 4: just starting the rebrand, which has only been a few
Speaker 4: months now, like there are some titles in there where
Speaker 4: we were playing around with that and then I was like, eh, well,
Speaker 4: you know.
Speaker 3: That's the cool marketing I think is what you have
Speaker 3: to think about, Like there's you have to be able
Speaker 3: to market yourself. Again, we live in a capitalist society,
Speaker 3: so we do need to like make money and we're
Speaker 3: self employed or I am, so like.
Speaker 4: Oh no, I don't know about you. I'm I'm unemployed
Speaker 4: and on the brink of big brank crafcy, but I'm
Speaker 4: working on something. I'll let you know, and I have
Speaker 4: it all figured put together and I'll sell it to you.
Speaker 3: But I think that that is something that you can do.
Speaker 3: But as you see with other creators and other helpers,
Speaker 3: you come to a point. I've had this in my
Speaker 3: own business. If like, you come to a point where
Speaker 3: you can choose making money or you can choose the
Speaker 3: ethics of what you're doing. And sometimes that decision is
Speaker 3: really hard, and sometimes you make the wrong one, and
Speaker 3: sometimes you make the right one. People like Brene Brown.
Speaker 3: We've talked about her a lot, not today but in conversations.
Speaker 3: Not already likes her. I love her, but there's a
Speaker 3: way that she does what she does that keeps her
Speaker 3: from reaching the masses that some other people have reached.
Speaker 3: And I think part of that is her tie to
Speaker 3: what she really believes and what she really wants, and
Speaker 3: that doesn't sell as well. So I think that's worth sacrificing. Yeah,
Speaker 3: if we do these things, we might get viral faster
Speaker 3: and more people will listen to our podcast and we'll
Speaker 3: make more money. Sure, but is that worth having to
Speaker 3: do it that way? Or do we rather have the
Speaker 3: slow burn? But then we feel okay about it? Yeah,
Speaker 3: slow burning we're slow burning. So no, I love our community.
Speaker 3: I mean, I know you do too, but I'm just
Speaker 3: saying I don't think either one of us all so
Speaker 3: it's chasing. I also like, don't I don't think we
Speaker 3: wake up every day of like I think we want
Speaker 3: people to download or listen, but that's not my number
Speaker 3: one goal in life, Like I think there are other things.
Speaker 3: I don't want to be that big. That's terrifying to me.
Speaker 3: I don't like I like. I like walking down the
Speaker 3: street nobody knowing who I am. And maybe for other
Speaker 3: people would be the same way.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 4: I can't speak for them, but I think for you
Speaker 4: and I, if our careers would change or we win
Speaker 4: a totally different trajectory like we would be okay. And
Speaker 4: some people it's like, no, this is exactly what I
Speaker 4: want to do. And don't get me wrong, I would
Speaker 4: love for us to do some live shows again, because
Speaker 4: when I do those and I get on stage, I'm
Speaker 4: like I was born for this. That's how I feel
Speaker 4: when I walk out on stage, like I love it.
Speaker 4: I think it's just connecting with people and like seeing
Speaker 4: them there. But it doesn't have to be you know,
Speaker 4: thousands people. It could be three hundred people in a room,
Speaker 4: and we've done that before, six hundred people in a room,
Speaker 4: and it still feels intimate. And I think it's just
Speaker 4: connecting with our people. So anyway, I do have that
Speaker 4: feeling of like I was born for this. And I
Speaker 4: also could move to Montana and make protein bars out
Speaker 4: of my kitchen, you know, and not never get on
Speaker 4: social media again, and never be in front of a
Speaker 4: microphone again, and I would be Okay, we just need
Speaker 4: to do the occasional live show so I could get
Speaker 4: on stage.
Speaker 3: Feel the brush. Okay. Well, if you guys have feedback
Speaker 3: or questions or thoughts that you had while you listened
Speaker 3: to this episode, you can send them to us. Hey,
Speaker 3: they're at Feeling Things podcast dot com. You can also
Speaker 3: send us questions for couch Talks, where we answer your
Speaker 3: questions on Wednesdays. You can Thursdays. It is Thursdays. Thank you.
Speaker 3: You can rate and review us and watch us on YouTube.
Speaker 3: Yeah five stars only thanks, it's kidding. Only rate us
Speaker 3: if you're gonna give us five starts. If not, just
Speaker 3: keep going.
Speaker 4: No, just email us. That was my whole point. It's like,
Speaker 4: give us your criticism, but have to be public. But
Speaker 4: I think some people thrive off of like three stars,
Speaker 4: four and a half.
Speaker 3: They thrive off of giving that they get a N star. Yeah,
Speaker 3: A sucks, but hey, you know what, let them let them.
Speaker 3: And with that being said, have the Day you.
Speaker 4: Need to have?
Speaker 3: Should we do a book? Have the Day you need
Speaker 3: to have? A whole book on it? That sounds like
Speaker 3: a children's book. No? No, don't you think I think
Speaker 3: we could market it? If we market it?
Speaker 4: Right, Have the Day you need to have?
Speaker 3: It'll save your It'll change your life. And in seven words?
Speaker 4: Where was her?
Speaker 3: Better than two words?
Speaker 4: I was trying to scroll back to wherever the definition
Speaker 4: of okay? How many words was it?
Speaker 3: Seven?
Speaker 4: Seven simple words? Have the day you need to have
Speaker 4: will set you free from the exhausting cycle of trying
Speaker 4: to manage everything and everyone around you.
Speaker 3: That actually sounds pretty good.
Speaker 4: Okay, Bye bye
Speaker 3: Z