WEBVTT - The Truth About ‘Let Them’: A Mel Robbins Deep Dive 0:00:03.160 --> 0:00:04.720 All right, break it down. 0:00:05.320 --> 0:00:08.719 If you ever have feelings that you just won't Amy 0:00:08.840 --> 0:00:13.240 and Cat gotcha Covin locking No, brother, Ladies and folks, 0:00:13.560 --> 0:00:15.560 do you just follow Ann the spirit where it's all 0:00:15.600 --> 0:00:19.239 the front over real stuff to the chill stuff and 0:00:19.400 --> 0:00:23.000 the m but Swayne, sometimes the best thing you can 0:00:23.079 --> 0:00:23.760 do it just. 0:00:24.960 --> 0:00:25.800 You feel things. 0:00:27.040 --> 0:00:28.560 This is feeling things with. 0:00:28.600 --> 0:00:29.360 Amy and Kat. 0:00:29.480 --> 0:00:33.080 Happy Tuesday. Welcome to feeling things. I'm Amy and I'm Kat. 0:00:33.479 --> 0:00:37.239 And feeling of the day is annoyed because the question is, 0:00:38.080 --> 0:00:41.760 I mean, is there anyone we can trust anymore? And 0:00:41.800 --> 0:00:43.279 if so, how do we know we can trust them? 0:00:43.320 --> 0:00:44.680 Because I already feel like I had to let go 0:00:44.960 --> 0:00:48.800 of Jay Shetty and now Mel Robbins, so I need 0:00:48.840 --> 0:00:50.040 to know who we can trust. 0:00:50.479 --> 0:00:53.840 Yeah, and I'm glad you're asking that question because you 0:00:53.880 --> 0:00:54.680 know what today. 0:00:54.480 --> 0:00:56.440 Is the Mel Robin's Deep Dive. 0:00:56.480 --> 0:01:00.600 It's our first official deep dive. So this is something 0:01:00.640 --> 0:01:04.280 we'll do from time to time. I'll do it with 0:01:04.360 --> 0:01:05.560 you and then you'll do it with me, and we'll 0:01:05.560 --> 0:01:08.319 take turns teaching each other something. And it can be 0:01:08.360 --> 0:01:10.720 about a person, a thing in pop culture, just a 0:01:10.840 --> 0:01:15.440 random idea we want to learn about and we're starting 0:01:16.040 --> 0:01:19.320 with Mel Robbins and her let them theory, and you 0:01:19.360 --> 0:01:21.759 are the teacher and I'm the teacher. I am the student, 0:01:21.880 --> 0:01:22.839 you are the student, and. 0:01:22.760 --> 0:01:27.479 I was the biggest Mel Robins fan. And not saying 0:01:27.560 --> 0:01:32.480 that I'm not in general, I still follow I'll dabble. 0:01:32.720 --> 0:01:35.720 I like guess that she has on. I just have 0:01:35.840 --> 0:01:41.240 found myself increasingly bummed. I guess would be the feeling 0:01:41.240 --> 0:01:45.760 of like or just kind of this weird feeling okay, disappointed, 0:01:45.800 --> 0:01:48.880 could work or just confuse like it's it's more of 0:01:48.880 --> 0:01:51.800 a feeling like I don't even know that I've got 0:01:51.880 --> 0:01:53.200 the exact word other. 0:01:53.080 --> 0:01:57.600 Than like ick, yeah an eh, I'm. 0:01:57.480 --> 0:02:00.320 Getting it, just like sometimes I'm like eugh, I was 0:02:00.320 --> 0:02:04.040 reading her book. I have followed her for years and 0:02:04.200 --> 0:02:06.040 enjoyed a lot of her stuff. I have learned a 0:02:06.040 --> 0:02:07.960 lot from her. I've learned a lot from her guests. 0:02:08.480 --> 0:02:13.359 I have shared a lot of her information. I've regurgitated 0:02:13.400 --> 0:02:18.040 it on my own podcasts and quoting her, of course 0:02:18.160 --> 0:02:21.880 not as my own stuff, but it's someone that I 0:02:22.040 --> 0:02:23.880 was like, oh, we need to be paying attention to 0:02:23.960 --> 0:02:28.960 this person. And I do think that she is helping 0:02:29.160 --> 0:02:31.760 in a certain way. But I know through your deep 0:02:31.800 --> 0:02:35.200 dive research you wouldn't necessarily define her as a helper, 0:02:35.880 --> 0:02:39.640 and I'm very curious as to why that is in 0:02:39.639 --> 0:02:42.520 what category we actually should put her in. But back 0:02:42.560 --> 0:02:44.800 to her latest book, I was trying to read it, 0:02:44.840 --> 0:02:48.400 and that's when the just really started to seep in 0:02:48.720 --> 0:02:52.880 because of the controversy around let them theory and where 0:02:52.919 --> 0:02:55.880 it originally came from. Because as an avid follower of hers, 0:02:56.040 --> 0:02:58.160 I know when I first saw her post about it, 0:02:58.240 --> 0:02:59.600 I remember being in my. 0:02:59.600 --> 0:03:01.720 Closet, well, you're getting to have yourself. 0:03:02.080 --> 0:03:04.600 Okay, I won't get ahead because I know you're the teacher, 0:03:04.639 --> 0:03:07.079 but I'm just letting you know. That's when, yeah, the 0:03:07.880 --> 0:03:12.239 and the unease started to set in. Yeah, because I 0:03:12.280 --> 0:03:15.560 couldn't even finish the book because that was a controversy 0:03:15.680 --> 0:03:18.519 that gained a lot of attention online. There's a lot 0:03:18.520 --> 0:03:21.120 of podcasts about it, there's a lot of threads about 0:03:21.160 --> 0:03:22.960 it all over the place, and so you can do 0:03:23.120 --> 0:03:26.880 your own research into it, but it just gave me 0:03:26.960 --> 0:03:30.720 the the ick and I couldn't finish it, which then 0:03:31.200 --> 0:03:35.480 those articles and podcasts led me into more research, and 0:03:35.520 --> 0:03:36.360 then now I'm just. 0:03:37.880 --> 0:03:42.320 Disenchanted. Yeah, that's a good word. She's somebody you or 0:03:42.440 --> 0:03:44.320 I know. This is how I felt. I want to 0:03:44.440 --> 0:03:46.880 like her. I want to like her so bad, but 0:03:46.960 --> 0:03:50.680 there's something also, yes, this disenchantment with that. You're like, oh, 0:03:50.840 --> 0:03:54.600 the screen has been lifted, like we see behind the 0:03:54.600 --> 0:03:57.920 curtain and we don't like what we see. And one 0:03:57.960 --> 0:04:01.720 thing that I kind of relate it back to is 0:04:01.760 --> 0:04:03.520 there was there was a job I had at one 0:04:03.520 --> 0:04:07.880 point in my life and it was like my dream job, 0:04:08.480 --> 0:04:10.680 Like I could not believe that I was chosen to 0:04:10.720 --> 0:04:15.320 work there. And I started working there in this this 0:04:15.560 --> 0:04:21.680 very evident, like unethical thing was just running around the workplace. 0:04:22.520 --> 0:04:24.120 And this is in the mental health field. There's a 0:04:24.160 --> 0:04:26.760 bunch of therapists, so it's it was pretty black and 0:04:26.800 --> 0:04:29.240 white that it was unethical, but everybody knew about it. 0:04:29.920 --> 0:04:32.520 And that's what led me to quit because I said 0:04:32.520 --> 0:04:35.320 to my I loved my boss. I looked up to 0:04:35.400 --> 0:04:38.160 him so much. I thought he was very wise, and 0:04:38.200 --> 0:04:41.520 he wasn't like in charge of the thing that was unethical. 0:04:41.560 --> 0:04:44.200 He was like stepped down. But I said to him, 0:04:44.240 --> 0:04:48.080 I said, I can't stay here anymore because I know 0:04:48.200 --> 0:04:51.400 about this, and you know about this, and we all 0:04:51.400 --> 0:04:53.760 know about this, and I'm not privy to a lot 0:04:53.800 --> 0:04:57.920 of the insider information, but you are. So if you're 0:04:58.080 --> 0:05:01.240 showing us this and it's that bad, what are you 0:05:01.320 --> 0:05:03.560 not showing us? And he didn't really say anything. He 0:05:03.760 --> 0:05:06.960 just was like, all right, get your stuff out here, 0:05:08.960 --> 0:05:11.760 and then a lot of people quit too. And that's 0:05:11.760 --> 0:05:14.359 what kind of this feels like, is we know this 0:05:14.560 --> 0:05:18.280 is So we'll get into the what you're talking about. 0:05:18.560 --> 0:05:22.680 The controversy around her book. We all know about that. 0:05:23.240 --> 0:05:27.840 It is so obvious, there's proof, it's all the timelines, 0:05:28.320 --> 0:05:32.800 so that's there, and she's just acting like it doesn't exist. 0:05:32.920 --> 0:05:35.200 I don't know how it has not been addressed on 0:05:35.320 --> 0:05:38.520 her end at all whatsoever. I am really that perplexes me. 0:05:38.760 --> 0:05:41.239 So what we're going to look at is where she comes, 0:05:41.320 --> 0:05:43.920 where she comes from, like how did she get here? 0:05:44.680 --> 0:05:48.200 Who is she? And then we'll look at the book 0:05:48.320 --> 0:05:52.440 and I think there's some there's some criticism around just 0:05:52.520 --> 0:05:55.320 the book in general, and then this controversy which is 0:05:55.440 --> 0:05:58.599 also there at the same time, which since we're dancing 0:05:58.600 --> 0:06:02.080 around it, I'll just say it. There's the main point 0:06:02.080 --> 0:06:04.920 of her book seems to be seems to be taken 0:06:04.960 --> 0:06:11.279 from a smaller, less known artist writer, and it's pretty 0:06:11.720 --> 0:06:13.760 evident and there's a lot of proof in it, but 0:06:13.800 --> 0:06:15.640 she's refusing to acknowledge. 0:06:15.160 --> 0:06:18.640 It, which a simple acknowledgment. That's what so blows my 0:06:18.720 --> 0:06:22.360 mind crazy. She could still write the book totally and 0:06:22.400 --> 0:06:25.920 then just like credit this person, which even that both 0:06:25.920 --> 0:06:28.880 of them, even that girl which I'm sure you get 0:06:28.880 --> 0:06:32.320 into it, and I have her name and everything. I 0:06:33.279 --> 0:06:36.839 don't even remember her name, Cassie, Cassie, that's it. Okay, 0:06:37.120 --> 0:06:41.240 so Cassie, I think also the idea of let them. 0:06:41.480 --> 0:06:45.480 Who knows how many people before Cassie have even said okay, 0:06:45.560 --> 0:06:48.440 let them, Okay, let them. I saw a funny video 0:06:48.480 --> 0:06:50.640 from some girl in New York the other day. She's like, 0:06:50.640 --> 0:06:52.200 you want me to give you the New York version 0:06:52.640 --> 0:06:54.320 of mel Robins let them theory. 0:06:54.480 --> 0:06:57.280 She's like Ethelm, She's. 0:06:57.120 --> 0:07:00.599 Like, someone does this to you, Yeah, someone does that 0:07:00.640 --> 0:07:00.760 to you. 0:07:01.040 --> 0:07:04.120 Ef it Well, it just was. It was really funny. 0:07:04.200 --> 0:07:08.120 It made me laugh. But it's not revolutionary. Even Cassie. 0:07:08.320 --> 0:07:12.080 Her poem, even poem, I get in trouble for how 0:07:12.120 --> 0:07:14.680 I say poem. I don't say it correctly. 0:07:14.800 --> 0:07:17.360 I get it. Oh go I'm so used to you 0:07:17.480 --> 0:07:18.600 saying it like that, You're. 0:07:18.480 --> 0:07:22.160 Used to me saying poem. Cassie's poem about let them 0:07:22.800 --> 0:07:26.320 it went viral, and I don't think Cassie would say 0:07:26.360 --> 0:07:31.400 that she's even with that viral poem poem, that she's 0:07:31.440 --> 0:07:33.960 the first person that's ever had this idea of let. 0:07:33.800 --> 0:07:38.000 Them, you know, And yeah, we'll get into that. Yeah, 0:07:38.080 --> 0:07:42.800 it's wild, it's interesting. And I before we Cassie Phillips, 0:07:42.880 --> 0:07:45.080 yes that's her name, before we go deeper into this, 0:07:45.280 --> 0:07:50.520 I do want to say, I am just sharing you 0:07:50.560 --> 0:07:54.000 with what I have found, and I'm sharing a couple 0:07:54.120 --> 0:07:56.280 opinions I have made based on what I have found. 0:07:56.280 --> 0:07:59.200 But I really not trying to just like bash her. 0:08:00.120 --> 0:08:03.320 I think if I was honest, what I really wanted 0:08:03.320 --> 0:08:06.840 to find is that she was what we want her 0:08:06.840 --> 0:08:09.120 to be because we all want somebody to look up to, 0:08:09.600 --> 0:08:11.400 we all want somebody to trust, We all are looking 0:08:11.400 --> 0:08:14.800 for somebody to guide us. And I discovered her or 0:08:14.800 --> 0:08:17.280 I first heard about her when she had her ted 0:08:17.320 --> 0:08:21.840 talk how to get people to stop screening you over 0:08:22.520 --> 0:08:25.760 or how there was something about screwing people over where 0:08:25.760 --> 0:08:29.960 I'm like twenty eleven and have you heard it. 0:08:30.160 --> 0:08:32.680 Yeah, I've watched Okay, of course I had a big fan, 0:08:32.800 --> 0:08:35.280 big fan, but it was it was old, so yeah, 0:08:35.280 --> 0:08:37.480 I didn't know. If it's not how I discovered her, though, 0:08:37.520 --> 0:08:39.320 I think I first heard of her with her five 0:08:39.400 --> 0:08:43.800 second Rule and somewhere on Instagram she came up and 0:08:43.800 --> 0:08:45.840 I immediately started following her, and then of course I 0:08:45.840 --> 0:08:47.880 started high fiving myself in the Mirror. 0:08:49.760 --> 0:08:51.080 Which was one of her books. 0:08:51.280 --> 0:08:54.920 Yes, and then I would do the five four three 0:08:55.120 --> 0:08:58.800 two one Get out of Bed. And I liked all 0:08:58.880 --> 0:09:03.160 of her science back tips and tricks and hacks. I 0:09:03.200 --> 0:09:05.920 was a sucker for it all, and I still think 0:09:06.000 --> 0:09:10.280 that they could be helpful. I know that that's how 0:09:10.320 --> 0:09:11.920 I was exposed her. And then I think I went 0:09:11.960 --> 0:09:15.040 back and watched some of her viral YouTube stuff and 0:09:15.040 --> 0:09:17.040 her TED talks and stuff that put her on the 0:09:17.080 --> 0:09:20.680 map with a lot of people. And then I would 0:09:20.720 --> 0:09:22.640 talk to you about her all the time. And I 0:09:22.679 --> 0:09:26.480 think it's worth noting that if people didn't gather from 0:09:26.520 --> 0:09:28.360 you working at that mental health place, that you're a 0:09:28.400 --> 0:09:31.560 licensed therapist, in case anybody's listening, that is new. 0:09:31.800 --> 0:09:36.320 Yeah, and when I was on your fifth thing, you 0:09:36.400 --> 0:09:39.640 talked about her a lot, and I could take quiet 0:09:39.720 --> 0:09:41.599 because people probably are like, wait, you guys used to 0:09:41.600 --> 0:09:43.080 always talk about her, like we used to have a 0:09:43.160 --> 0:09:44.720 joke of like take a shot and once you were 0:09:44.760 --> 0:09:46.840 a say Mel Robbins, like, oh gosh, I forgot about that. 0:09:47.240 --> 0:09:49.360 So you talked about her all the time, and I 0:09:49.400 --> 0:09:52.199 went along with it because I know that I'm somebody 0:09:52.200 --> 0:09:57.160 who is very it's critical of the right word, it's 0:09:57.360 --> 0:09:59.440 very skeptical. I'm very skeptical. 0:10:00.080 --> 0:10:04.400 Yeah, their standism, and I like in your blood yeah. 0:10:04.120 --> 0:10:06.360 Which I don't love. Then I do at the same time, 0:10:07.280 --> 0:10:08.920 but I get sick of that part of me. So 0:10:08.960 --> 0:10:13.920 I'm like, Catherine, let her, let her, let her, like 0:10:13.960 --> 0:10:17.439 Mel Robbins, if she's helping her, let her help her, 0:10:17.480 --> 0:10:20.000 And that is I still believe that if if she's 0:10:20.080 --> 0:10:22.760 helping you, that's okay. We don't have to throw the 0:10:22.760 --> 0:10:24.760 baby out with the bathwater. You can take parts of 0:10:24.760 --> 0:10:27.680 this and also know when you need to like set 0:10:27.679 --> 0:10:30.760 a boundary for yourself or know when to say, okay, 0:10:31.440 --> 0:10:33.920 this makes sense, But I don't have to take all 0:10:34.000 --> 0:10:36.920 of it at the same time. And so if you're listening, 0:10:37.000 --> 0:10:38.280 you're like, you guys used to talk about her all 0:10:38.320 --> 0:10:42.120 the time you are hypocrites kind of. But also we 0:10:42.240 --> 0:10:44.480 have more information now well, and that's part of it. 0:10:44.600 --> 0:10:48.520 I think this is an example too of well critical thinking, 0:10:48.640 --> 0:10:53.760 which we've discussed previously, and then evolving and figuring out 0:10:53.800 --> 0:10:55.880 what works and what doesn't work. I mean, there are 0:10:55.920 --> 0:10:59.040 things that I would get from Mel that I would 0:10:59.080 --> 0:11:02.080 even try out myself and it just didn't sit right, 0:11:02.120 --> 0:11:05.559 Like it didn't feel right, like I in the mirror or. 0:11:05.520 --> 0:11:07.400 You like, no, that worked. Now I kind of like that. 0:11:07.840 --> 0:11:09.040 I don't mind that so much. 0:11:09.120 --> 0:11:11.440 And then you know, even the five second role, like 0:11:11.440 --> 0:11:13.680 I get the stuff behind it, but sometimes it's just 0:11:13.720 --> 0:11:15.760 like the simplest stuff that you need, sort of like 0:11:15.840 --> 0:11:16.480 drink water. 0:11:16.640 --> 0:11:20.160 But how is she writing this is my question? How 0:11:20.200 --> 0:11:22.800 did she write a whole book on counting to five 0:11:23.160 --> 0:11:24.600 and let them like that could. 0:11:24.440 --> 0:11:26.200 Be read the five second role? 0:11:26.280 --> 0:11:29.360 So I'm not sure, Like that's an art that's near 0:11:29.640 --> 0:11:32.000 here and more there. So okay, we could talk about 0:11:32.000 --> 0:11:34.920 this forever. I could talk about this topic for five hours, 0:11:35.000 --> 0:11:38.439 So for the sake of time, shall we all right? 0:11:38.480 --> 0:11:41.960 So before we get into the juice, I did find 0:11:42.240 --> 0:11:46.079 this idea on a very credible website. 0:11:46.720 --> 0:11:49.640 What's the website Reddit. Oh yeah, super credible. 0:11:49.760 --> 0:11:52.960 And I was reading threads just of people's opinions on Melan, 0:11:53.200 --> 0:11:56.040 you know, leading me down a black hole, and somebody 0:11:56.120 --> 0:11:57.840 said this. I just thought I'd never heard this before. 0:11:57.840 --> 0:12:01.040 I thought it was interesting. The term is cruel optimism, 0:12:02.120 --> 0:12:05.920 and that shows up. It shows up, I think in 0:12:06.120 --> 0:12:08.840 a lot of her content, and specifically her book, but 0:12:08.920 --> 0:12:11.720 it shows up with a lot of self help content. 0:12:12.400 --> 0:12:15.679 And of course in the comment somebody was like, I'm 0:12:15.679 --> 0:12:17.840 not familiar. What is cruel optimism? And this is what 0:12:17.880 --> 0:12:21.320 the person said. It comes from the philosopher Lorne Berlant 0:12:21.840 --> 0:12:24.280 and describes in a way, the sort of false hope 0:12:24.559 --> 0:12:28.240 attachments people are given which redirect them from changing their 0:12:28.360 --> 0:12:32.480 material reality. Most self help books provide a surface level 0:12:32.640 --> 0:12:36.600 false sense of solution which actually distracts people from making 0:12:36.720 --> 0:12:42.480 change in the material reality underlying their suffering. So essentially, 0:12:42.640 --> 0:12:45.000 it's what it's saying is it makes people feel better 0:12:45.000 --> 0:12:49.040 about their circumstances without actually addressing the underlying issues. So 0:12:49.520 --> 0:12:53.640 it keeps them stuck, and it becomes a tool of 0:12:53.679 --> 0:12:57.800 actually reinforcing what's actually happening, and it works against them. 0:12:58.120 --> 0:13:02.480 So would grow an actual work on yourself like deep 0:13:02.600 --> 0:13:06.240 dinner work. Then that's what leads to us the veil 0:13:06.320 --> 0:13:07.640 being lifted in us being like. 0:13:07.679 --> 0:13:10.120 What yeah, I am I well, and that's I think 0:13:10.600 --> 0:13:13.000 following this person. Yeah. The criticism of the let them 0:13:13.080 --> 0:13:14.680 theory and like the five four three two one and 0:13:14.720 --> 0:13:18.400 all that stuff is when you're reading that stuff. I mean, 0:13:18.440 --> 0:13:20.680 I've had this feeling too, and I've read self help books. 0:13:20.720 --> 0:13:23.360 You're like, oh my gosh, highlighting it like this just 0:13:23.400 --> 0:13:25.320 makes so much sense. I'm going to do this. And 0:13:25.360 --> 0:13:28.640 then when you actually do those things, they don't change 0:13:28.640 --> 0:13:31.360 anything about your life. They'll let them actually keeps you 0:13:31.480 --> 0:13:35.480 further away from actually addressing the issues that you have, 0:13:35.760 --> 0:13:38.880 creating boundaries for people in your life, having intentional conversation, 0:13:39.120 --> 0:13:43.640 confronting people, Like confronting people is part of real relationships. 0:13:44.280 --> 0:13:47.360 And so I just wanted to say that as we'll 0:13:47.360 --> 0:13:49.360 get back into it, but I thought it was just 0:13:49.400 --> 0:13:52.000 an interesting idea that it seems like and that's why 0:13:52.000 --> 0:13:55.120 it's the cruel optimism. It seems like you're like, yes, 0:13:55.280 --> 0:13:57.319 this is going to change my life, but it keeps 0:13:57.320 --> 0:14:00.560 you exactly the same exactly. 0:14:00.600 --> 0:14:02.840 It's sort of like you're just you're hopping onto this 0:14:02.960 --> 0:14:07.840 wheel and you don't ever get off unless you dig deeper. Yeah, 0:14:07.880 --> 0:14:12.160 but the tips are designed to keep you surface. 0:14:12.440 --> 0:14:14.960 And I think that creates this the wheel. I like 0:14:15.000 --> 0:14:17.800 that idea. That's like coming back to that person. Right, 0:14:17.880 --> 0:14:20.560 So if I'm like I'm waiting for her next book, 0:14:20.560 --> 0:14:22.360 that's going to solve the next problem. And that's a 0:14:22.400 --> 0:14:27.400 marketing tactic like always leave, leave somebody needing the next thing. 0:14:27.520 --> 0:14:30.320 So like this book sets you up, it creates, it 0:14:30.360 --> 0:14:34.840 solves this problem, but it creates another problem. Somebody was 0:14:34.840 --> 0:14:37.360 talking to me about this, Hannah Ellis, she's an esthetician. 0:14:37.720 --> 0:14:40.240 She was like, the beauty industry does that, so they'll 0:14:40.240 --> 0:14:44.040 create a product that solves this. Like back in the day, 0:14:44.240 --> 0:14:47.840 grapefruit scrub. It cleaned out your pores. Well, guess what 0:14:47.880 --> 0:14:50.480 it gave you dry skin? So then what was the 0:14:50.480 --> 0:14:55.160 next thing, morturizer. Yes, so it's the same idea. Okay. 0:14:55.280 --> 0:14:58.440 So I wanted to know when I started this, like 0:14:58.520 --> 0:15:02.440 where does mel come from? What's her background? What gives 0:15:02.440 --> 0:15:06.160 her the right to be saying these things? And I 0:15:06.240 --> 0:15:13.320 have to say she's very credited, like she has degrees. 0:15:13.680 --> 0:15:18.440 She went to Dartmouth, Dartmouth, Dartmouth Dartmouth Dartmouth poem. 0:15:19.640 --> 0:15:20.000 She went. 0:15:20.960 --> 0:15:23.560 She went to Dartmouth's right, and then she went to 0:15:23.600 --> 0:15:28.880 Boston College for law school. So she is smart to 0:15:28.880 --> 0:15:31.800 be able to get into both of those schools. And 0:15:32.560 --> 0:15:34.640 she was a public defender. I think it was for 0:15:34.640 --> 0:15:37.480 a while. And then she moved to Michigan for her 0:15:37.760 --> 0:15:41.960 husband's schooling, I think business school or something. And when 0:15:41.960 --> 0:15:44.240 she did that, she wanted to change careers, which I 0:15:44.760 --> 0:15:48.400 would get that, like you want something different? Well, who 0:15:48.440 --> 0:15:50.880 do you think she talked to about changing careers? Like, 0:15:50.920 --> 0:15:53.800 if you wanted to change careers, who would you call 0:15:54.840 --> 0:15:56.160 to help you figure out where you want to go? 0:15:56.920 --> 0:16:01.560 Well, I mean I would just call a friend, Okay, 0:16:02.080 --> 0:16:05.480 I phone home. I don't know, like i'd call my sister. 0:16:06.480 --> 0:16:07.200 Who did she call? 0:16:07.320 --> 0:16:08.240 She called a life coach. 0:16:08.800 --> 0:16:10.120 Oh see, I don't. 0:16:10.200 --> 0:16:13.880 I don't have one of those. But which maybe she 0:16:14.000 --> 0:16:17.360 started seeing a life coach and the life coach ended 0:16:17.400 --> 0:16:19.960 up saying like, and this comes from an article, I 0:16:20.760 --> 0:16:23.080 want to give credit where credit is due. This comes 0:16:23.080 --> 0:16:25.280 from an article by Rachel Baker, and it was in 0:16:25.360 --> 0:16:27.720 the Boston magazine in two thousand and seven, so this 0:16:27.760 --> 0:16:31.120 was before she got super big. So she went to 0:16:31.720 --> 0:16:33.880 a life coach. The life coach was like, you should 0:16:33.880 --> 0:16:37.680 be doing what I'm doing, and Mel was like yeah, 0:16:38.480 --> 0:16:40.200 And so how do you think she learned to become 0:16:40.200 --> 0:16:41.080 a life coach. 0:16:41.760 --> 0:16:46.120 From her life coach? So she was trained like the 0:16:46.160 --> 0:16:48.480 life coach saw something in her and was like, wow, 0:16:48.520 --> 0:16:50.920 you'd be really good at this. So then she decided 0:16:51.560 --> 0:16:54.600 show me your ways and like take me under your 0:16:54.600 --> 0:16:56.440 wing and then I'll spread my own. 0:16:56.600 --> 0:16:59.480 Yeah. So she it says in that this article she 0:16:59.520 --> 0:17:02.720 trained for two years under this person by phone, email 0:17:02.800 --> 0:17:07.159 and an in person visits occasionally, like just training over email. 0:17:07.320 --> 0:17:09.000 I guess it was twenty and seven. Things were different 0:17:09.040 --> 0:17:14.240 back then. Probably wasn't Zoom, No, was their Skype? Maybe maybe? Okay, 0:17:14.960 --> 0:17:18.080 So then she became a life coach. So by two 0:17:18.119 --> 0:17:21.760 thousand and seven, so this is what eighteen years ago. 0:17:22.680 --> 0:17:24.440 How much do you think she was charging in two 0:17:24.480 --> 0:17:38.600 thousand and seven? How much do you think she was 0:17:38.680 --> 0:17:42.120 charging in two thousand and seven for life coaching. 0:17:42.640 --> 0:17:44.520 I'm just gonna guess five hundred an hour? 0:17:44.880 --> 0:17:49.560 No, no, three fifty okay, but that's a lot like that, 0:17:50.400 --> 0:17:54.160 don't even charge that's double my rate as a therapist. 0:17:54.280 --> 0:17:57.720 So that's two thousand and seven. That's what blew my mind. Like, honestly, 0:17:57.760 --> 0:18:02.000 life coaches their rates are cucko these days. 0:18:01.760 --> 0:18:04.440 And they're not they're not certified, Yeah, like I mean, 0:18:04.480 --> 0:18:07.800 I guess they if you could be training under somebody, 0:18:07.840 --> 0:18:09.879 but do I have to have training or a certificate? 0:18:10.040 --> 0:18:12.520 No. You could to make yourself look credible, but there's 0:18:12.520 --> 0:18:15.720 no actual like you don't have to. I think that 0:18:15.760 --> 0:18:18.040 they're also I will say this, I think that there's 0:18:18.080 --> 0:18:21.240 a place for life coaches. I'm not against them when 0:18:21.800 --> 0:18:24.840 people stay in their lane and they do know like 0:18:25.000 --> 0:18:28.200 what they're actually coaching on somebody on. I think there's 0:18:28.240 --> 0:18:30.600 a time and a place for it. Do I think 0:18:30.600 --> 0:18:33.760 sometimes they charge too much? Yes, but there's not like 0:18:33.840 --> 0:18:35.280 a governing body of them. 0:18:35.560 --> 0:18:38.239 So I would say an average therapist though, just that 0:18:38.400 --> 0:18:44.159 has schooling and all the credentials, which there is a 0:18:44.160 --> 0:18:46.080 difference between a therapist and a life coach. Yeah, but 0:18:46.280 --> 0:18:48.399 I would say most therapists are probably like what one 0:18:48.480 --> 0:18:49.440 hundred and fifty an hour. 0:18:50.520 --> 0:18:52.679 Depends on where you live, Okay, I think in New 0:18:52.760 --> 0:18:56.240 York five hundred dollars wouldn't surprise me. In Naturville, you're 0:18:56.280 --> 0:19:00.600 gonna find between a licensed therapist, like one fifty to 0:19:00.840 --> 0:19:04.640 two fifty, and there's reasons why they would be higher 0:19:04.680 --> 0:19:07.280 and lower based on different trainings, certifications you have. And 0:19:07.640 --> 0:19:09.800 you said, it's the same thing, like therapists can also 0:19:09.840 --> 0:19:11.000 price gouge people. Yeah. 0:19:11.000 --> 0:19:12.560 So it's like a bottle of water at the gas 0:19:12.560 --> 0:19:15.159 station and the bottle of water at the airport. The 0:19:15.280 --> 0:19:16.960 same bottle of water, you just charge more. 0:19:17.080 --> 0:19:22.119 Yeah, so okay, that was shocking to me. So she 0:19:22.160 --> 0:19:27.760 became a life coach and then she had this syndicated 0:19:27.840 --> 0:19:29.800 radio show called make It Happen with Mel? 0:19:30.440 --> 0:19:31.520 Was that on serious? 0:19:31.840 --> 0:19:34.520 I think so? And now I was looking for if 0:19:34.560 --> 0:19:37.280 I could like listen to an old episode of or something, 0:19:37.680 --> 0:19:39.400 So I typed in like make it Happen with Mel, 0:19:39.560 --> 0:19:43.200 And now that just leads you to her website and 0:19:43.240 --> 0:19:47.760 she has like a two part online coaching program called 0:19:47.840 --> 0:19:49.879 make It Happen with Mel. I don't know how much 0:19:49.920 --> 0:19:51.720 she's charging though, because I didn't want to sign up 0:19:51.760 --> 0:19:52.520 for her email list. 0:19:52.720 --> 0:19:54.280 She still has that business. 0:19:54.560 --> 0:19:56.080 I mean, it's it was kind of hard if you 0:19:56.080 --> 0:19:58.399 didn't actually type in make it Happen with Mel. It 0:19:58.480 --> 0:20:00.560 was hard to find it on her website just by 0:20:00.760 --> 0:20:03.159 going through it, so she still does it, but I 0:20:03.520 --> 0:20:06.960 it looks like it's like a pre recorded coaching sessions, 0:20:07.520 --> 0:20:09.600 so who knows how much she could be charging for that, 0:20:09.800 --> 0:20:13.679 So she has that side business. So this also was 0:20:13.760 --> 0:20:16.439 very interesting to me. And this gets me into like 0:20:17.119 --> 0:20:20.520 my kind of thoughts and opinions on her. I think 0:20:20.560 --> 0:20:24.199 she's a genius. I think she is so smart. I 0:20:24.240 --> 0:20:27.080 do think she has helped people, but I also think 0:20:27.440 --> 0:20:31.840 that again my opinion, she is a businesswoman, not a helper. 0:20:32.640 --> 0:20:35.280 The helping is like almost by accident or it's like this, 0:20:35.440 --> 0:20:40.760 like somehow this comes along sometimes to me. Her main 0:20:40.800 --> 0:20:44.359 goal is business, which also is like we live in 0:20:44.400 --> 0:20:50.719 a capitalist society, Like that makes sense. The way she 0:20:50.800 --> 0:20:56.320 markets herself, the way she uses words in storytelling to 0:20:56.640 --> 0:21:00.560 kind of rope you in and wrap you in is 0:21:01.880 --> 0:21:08.240 incredible exhibit a her website. On her bio, she says, 0:21:09.000 --> 0:21:12.879 at forty one, I was unemployed, drowning in debt, and 0:21:13.000 --> 0:21:15.480 so overwhelmed that I could barely get out of bed. 0:21:16.400 --> 0:21:20.600 Then everything changed with one simple tool, the five second rule. 0:21:20.960 --> 0:21:23.320 It got me moving one small step at a time 0:21:23.600 --> 0:21:26.680 and led me here. Now fifteen years later, I host 0:21:26.760 --> 0:21:29.480 one of the world's biggest podcasts, and my books have 0:21:29.560 --> 0:21:33.200 reached millions in over fifty languages. My work has changed 0:21:33.200 --> 0:21:36.080