WEBVTT - What’s at Stake 0:00:15.250 --> 0:00:27.250 Pushkin. Welcome to a Brave New Planet. My name is 0:00:27.370 --> 0:00:33.290 Eric Lander. I'm your host for this new podcast. In 0:00:33.370 --> 0:00:38.090 the upcoming episodes, we'll explore frontiers of science and technology 0:00:38.410 --> 0:00:43.650 that are both exciting and challenging. Artificial intelligence that's unleashing 0:00:43.730 --> 0:00:48.690 artistic creativity, but also enabling deep fakes that undermine truth 0:00:48.730 --> 0:00:52.810 and democracy. A plan to modify the Earth's atmosphere to 0:00:52.810 --> 0:00:57.170 hold off climate change that might buy time or might 0:00:57.290 --> 0:01:00.730 keep us from solving the real problem. A new genetic 0:01:00.770 --> 0:01:05.650 technology for engineering nature that might prevent malaria but might 0:01:05.730 --> 0:01:10.850 get out of hand. Computer algorithms that can diagnose diseases, 0:01:10.930 --> 0:01:14.370 tell companies who to hire, and judges had a sentence, 0:01:15.050 --> 0:01:19.370 but might also automate or human biases. And we'll ask 0:01:19.410 --> 0:01:24.250 whether it's time to turn war over to robots. We'll 0:01:24.290 --> 0:01:28.930 look at the amazing upsides and also ask what could 0:01:28.970 --> 0:01:37.050 possibly go wrong. But for this short first episode, I 0:01:37.130 --> 0:01:40.250 thought i'd better explain who I am and why I'm here. 0:01:40.810 --> 0:01:43.410 I'm a scientist. I grew up in New York City, 0:01:43.530 --> 0:01:46.410 a product of the public schools, where I fell in 0:01:46.530 --> 0:01:49.890 love with math. Not long after I did my PhD 0:01:49.890 --> 0:01:55.010 in mathematics, I became captivated by genetics. By luck, that 0:01:55.130 --> 0:01:58.810 was just a few years before biologists began dreaming about 0:01:58.850 --> 0:02:03.650 reading out the complete human genetic code, all three billion 0:02:03.770 --> 0:02:07.770 letters of DNA. I got involved in this crazy idea 0:02:08.090 --> 0:02:11.010 called the Human gene Project, and became one of the 0:02:11.130 --> 0:02:15.370 leaders of that international collaboration. As the work neared its end, 0:02:15.410 --> 0:02:18.570 I helped launch a research institute, the Broad Institute of 0:02:18.730 --> 0:02:22.290 MT and Harvard, that I still lead today, to apply 0:02:22.450 --> 0:02:25.890 that same collaborative spirit to help a new generation of 0:02:25.970 --> 0:02:30.770 remarkable scientists propel the understanding and treatment of human diseases 0:02:31.450 --> 0:02:35.010 outside the laboratory. I've always cared a lot about how 0:02:35.090 --> 0:02:38.890 science affects the world. For eight years, I also co 0:02:39.130 --> 0:02:42.850 chaired the President's Council of Advisors on Science and Technology 0:02:43.210 --> 0:02:46.250 for the Obama White House. We got a chance to 0:02:46.290 --> 0:02:49.810 wrestle with some of the nation's biggest opportunities and problems, 0:02:50.410 --> 0:02:55.290 from energy to influenza, cybersecurity to aging, and through it all, 0:02:55.450 --> 0:03:00.250 I've continued to teach introbiology to MIT students, who every 0:03:00.330 --> 0:03:04.890 year restore my faith in the future. But that future 0:03:05.010 --> 0:03:08.250 is on the line today in ways it's never been before. 0:03:09.090 --> 0:03:13.130 The decisions we make or don't make will affect us 0:03:13.170 --> 0:03:16.810 all for generations to come. So to kick off Brave 0:03:16.850 --> 0:03:19.770 New Planet, I wanted to talk with someone who has 0:03:19.970 --> 0:03:23.890 boundless curiosity and might help us think about what's at stake. 0:03:24.530 --> 0:03:27.490 I reached out to Malcolm Gladwell. He's the author of 0:03:27.530 --> 0:03:31.010 books like Talking to Strangers and Outliers and the host 0:03:31.050 --> 0:03:35.810 of the podcast Revisionist History. To my delight, he agreed 0:03:35.850 --> 0:03:40.690 to join us. Malcolm Gladwell, Welcome to Brave New Planet. 0:03:41.370 --> 0:03:44.650 Thank you, Eric. I am delighted to be here and 0:03:44.930 --> 0:03:48.570 fascinated to learn more about your new podcast. But before 0:03:48.570 --> 0:03:50.850 we get into it, I wanted to talk a little 0:03:50.890 --> 0:03:55.330 bit about you. I'm very curious about how your initial 0:03:55.370 --> 0:03:58.410 ideas about science were formed and why what led you 0:03:58.450 --> 0:04:00.810 into this world in the first place. You know, looking 0:04:00.890 --> 0:04:03.610 back growing up in New York as a kid in 0:04:03.650 --> 0:04:06.970 the nineteen sixties, it was pretty amazing. I was raised 0:04:07.010 --> 0:04:09.530 by my mom and we didn't have a lot of money, 0:04:09.610 --> 0:04:12.890 but she figured out everything free and everything cheap that 0:04:13.010 --> 0:04:16.490 you could do, dragonist to museums. She let us stay 0:04:16.530 --> 0:04:20.170 home and watch all the space launches, and then nineteen 0:04:20.290 --> 0:04:23.210 sixty four sixty five was the World's Fair, the New 0:04:23.290 --> 0:04:27.290 York City World's Fair, and that was amazing. There was 0:04:27.330 --> 0:04:31.890 this the Unisphere, the big globe that was the symbol 0:04:31.890 --> 0:04:34.090 of the World's Fair. It's it's the thing that gets 0:04:34.130 --> 0:04:36.530 destroyed in Men in Black at the end of the movie, 0:04:38.090 --> 0:04:40.130 and there was a guy in a jet pack who 0:04:40.170 --> 0:04:42.970 flew over the unisphere and they told us all we 0:04:42.970 --> 0:04:45.730 would be going to work in jetpacks. I still am 0:04:45.730 --> 0:04:48.610 waiting for my jetpack. But there were all these other things. 0:04:48.650 --> 0:04:52.370 There was like the ge Carousel of Progress where they 0:04:52.370 --> 0:04:56.370 were singing There's a great, big, beautiful tomorrow. And there 0:04:56.450 --> 0:05:00.290 was Belle Labs premiering the picture phone, and du Pont 0:05:00.410 --> 0:05:04.090 with its wonderful world of Chemistry, which I think became 0:05:04.130 --> 0:05:07.530 the better slogan better living through chemistry. And they had 0:05:07.530 --> 0:05:10.010 this time capsule that we're going to dig up in 0:05:10.130 --> 0:05:12.890 five thousand years. And it was also the era of 0:05:13.010 --> 0:05:17.730 Star Trek, where everybody, all races and genders, we were 0:05:17.730 --> 0:05:20.930 going to go out together and boldly go and so 0:05:21.130 --> 0:05:25.450 it was a period of like infinite possibility, amazing optimism 0:05:25.490 --> 0:05:27.250 about what you could do in the world. There are 0:05:27.250 --> 0:05:31.010 obviously lots of tensions bubbling under the surface, but as 0:05:31.050 --> 0:05:33.570 a seven eight year old kid I wasn't wear any 0:05:33.610 --> 0:05:35.930 of that yet, and so I think I was formed 0:05:35.970 --> 0:05:39.650 in this world that thought science was going to be 0:05:39.690 --> 0:05:43.970 incredibly important to progress and the world was gonna it 0:05:44.010 --> 0:05:45.890 was just going to become a better and better place. 0:05:46.130 --> 0:05:50.210 I'm amazed, like in your description of that, how frictionless 0:05:50.730 --> 0:05:53.170 your access to knowledge as a kid was seems to 0:05:53.170 --> 0:05:55.370 have been. I mean, all the stuff's on your doorstep, 0:05:55.970 --> 0:05:57.970 like the New York's Fairest. I mean, I don't know 0:05:58.010 --> 0:06:00.690 what subway you're taking, or maybe a couple of buses, 0:06:00.690 --> 0:06:03.130 but but I mean the point is, like, you don't 0:06:03.130 --> 0:06:05.890 have to have a lot of money. You're going to 0:06:05.890 --> 0:06:08.610 lost a dollar for kids to get in. Yeah, now 0:06:08.730 --> 0:06:11.370 dollar was worth more than but still, you know, my 0:06:11.450 --> 0:06:14.730 mom dragged us fourteen times to the World's Fair and 0:06:14.730 --> 0:06:18.370 it was she was amazing. Fourteen times. I love it. 0:06:18.450 --> 0:06:21.650 You remember how many times? Oh yeah, So you have 0:06:21.850 --> 0:06:26.770 this coming out of your childhood, you inherit, this sense 0:06:26.770 --> 0:06:30.650 of infinite possibility. What happens to that sense as you 0:06:30.690 --> 0:06:33.490 get older? Is it still there? Well? It's interesting, I mean, 0:06:33.650 --> 0:06:36.930 where does that sense come from? An infinite possibility? It's 0:06:37.010 --> 0:06:40.450 it's no accident that the nineteen sixties are like that. 0:06:40.450 --> 0:06:43.890 It's after World War Two, where science played a big 0:06:44.010 --> 0:06:49.850 role in winning the war, radar, early computers, penicillin, of course, 0:06:49.850 --> 0:06:53.730 atomic bombs, and the US makes this decision after the 0:06:53.770 --> 0:06:57.730 war that science is going to be a cornerstone of 0:06:57.810 --> 0:07:01.890 society going forward, that we're going to fund science at universities, 0:07:01.930 --> 0:07:05.570 and we're gonna train people, and we'll have this virtuous 0:07:05.610 --> 0:07:10.090 cycle of public knowledge producing technologies and wars and companies. 0:07:10.690 --> 0:07:15.810 And then of course, nine months after I'm born, Sputnik 0:07:15.850 --> 0:07:18.890 goes up. I don't remember it, but I know it 0:07:18.930 --> 0:07:21.970 was exactly nine months after I was born, and like 0:07:22.170 --> 0:07:26.050 everything goes into overdrive. Science is central to the survival 0:07:26.090 --> 0:07:30.610 of the country. We pass laws for science education, we 0:07:30.690 --> 0:07:32.890 start the space race to get a man on the 0:07:32.930 --> 0:07:36.250 moon first. So you know, this is the world that 0:07:36.490 --> 0:07:39.650 shaped that New York City of the nineteen sixties was 0:07:39.730 --> 0:07:43.130 the sense that science was going to discover what's true, 0:07:43.330 --> 0:07:46.810 technology was going to figure out what's possible, and society 0:07:46.850 --> 0:07:51.210 reaps the benefits. And that assumption, that idea that the 0:07:51.490 --> 0:07:56.930 scientific method, you know, you figure out what's true by evidence, 0:07:57.250 --> 0:08:01.450 not authority. It's all about honesty, not advocacy. There was 0:08:01.490 --> 0:08:06.010 a set of assumptions that underlay that world where this 0:08:06.050 --> 0:08:10.370 country really bought into the ideas of science, and it 0:08:10.530 --> 0:08:13.690 paid off amazing dividends. You know, through the rest of 0:08:13.730 --> 0:08:16.890 the twentieth century. You think about all the things that 0:08:17.050 --> 0:08:19.530 happened from what had to have been a bit of 0:08:19.530 --> 0:08:22.570 a crazy bet. The US didn't invest in science a 0:08:22.610 --> 0:08:25.730 lot before the war. But afterwards you look at the 0:08:25.770 --> 0:08:30.090 things that start happening. You get polio vaccines, measles, and 0:08:30.210 --> 0:08:35.490 smallpox vaccines and eradicate smallpox. And you get computer technology 0:08:35.610 --> 0:08:40.850 and the Internet and GPS systems and like Google searches 0:08:40.890 --> 0:08:45.130 come out of a National Science Foundation grant, and then 0:08:45.210 --> 0:08:48.810 molecular biology and gene cloning and this Human Genome Project 0:08:48.890 --> 0:08:52.010 I got very involved in, and onward and onward and onward, 0:08:52.170 --> 0:08:54.930 and you get these industries that grow up around all 0:08:54.970 --> 0:08:59.490 these things. So I think it paid off in huge ways. 0:09:00.210 --> 0:09:04.850 And what's interesting is it's only accelerated since then in 0:09:04.930 --> 0:09:07.410 terms of the science, even though there are a lot 0:09:07.410 --> 0:09:09.450 of tensions, you know from the any of you of 0:09:09.530 --> 0:09:12.530 the science. You look at the last two decades or 0:09:12.570 --> 0:09:16.610 so and you start seeing, you know, artificial intelligence, we 0:09:16.690 --> 0:09:22.410 can translate languages, by computers and spot lung cancers by computers, 0:09:22.450 --> 0:09:26.250 and people are making self driving cars and quantum computers. 0:09:26.370 --> 0:09:32.170 And in biology you have you know, new therapies for cancer, immunotherapies, 0:09:32.970 --> 0:09:36.130 and this Human Genome project where we spent three billion 0:09:36.170 --> 0:09:38.810 dollars to read one genome. It now costs a couple 0:09:38.890 --> 0:09:41.970 hundred bucks to read a genome. There are technologies that 0:09:42.170 --> 0:09:45.890 let you edit genomes like Crisper, and just keeps going 0:09:45.930 --> 0:09:49.130 and going, and I think, if anything, it's accelerating in 0:09:49.290 --> 0:09:53.010 terms of the science and the impact on society. I've 0:09:53.050 --> 0:09:55.970 just curious, Eric, you've chosen to do this now? Is 0:09:55.970 --> 0:09:58.850 there a reason why now? I mean, you could have 0:09:58.890 --> 0:10:00.610 done this five years ago, You could have done this 0:10:00.970 --> 0:10:03.730 five years from now. So there's something compelling you at 0:10:03.730 --> 0:10:08.810 this moment in time. Yeah. Absolutely. It is so glaringly 0:10:08.810 --> 0:10:12.250 out obvious that we are going to need science to 0:10:12.250 --> 0:10:16.450 solve a lot of the problems ahead. Climate change. It's 0:10:16.490 --> 0:10:19.530 in our face right now. It was theoretical to people, 0:10:19.570 --> 0:10:22.650 but the last three or four years, it's so obvious 0:10:22.770 --> 0:10:25.490 we're gonna have to solve that. The pandemic that we're 0:10:25.530 --> 0:10:28.970 living through right now, it's clear there's no way to 0:10:29.090 --> 0:10:33.370 solve pandemics without a lot more science than we've brought 0:10:33.410 --> 0:10:36.210 to bear on it so far. And then I think 0:10:36.210 --> 0:10:39.930 about things like Alzheimer's. It's going to be costing US 0:10:39.970 --> 0:10:44.690 a trillion dollars a year as the usages, and we 0:10:44.730 --> 0:10:48.610 really don't know how to do anything other than support people. 0:10:48.970 --> 0:10:51.330 So we've got to come up with solutions, and those 0:10:51.330 --> 0:10:54.450 solutions that got to come from science. I could go 0:10:54.530 --> 0:10:58.650 on and on, and so it seemed like a moment 0:10:59.330 --> 0:11:02.090 when we just had to decide are we going to 0:11:02.250 --> 0:11:06.490 rally a world together around science. It's Matt Damon's famous 0:11:06.570 --> 0:11:09.490 line from the movie The Martian when he branded on 0:11:09.650 --> 0:11:13.170 Mars and he knows nobody's coming back for him soon, 0:11:13.290 --> 0:11:17.210 and he says, I guess there's only one option. I'm 0:11:17.250 --> 0:11:19.210 going to have to science the shit out of this. 0:11:20.170 --> 0:11:21.930 We're gonna have to do that right now. And I 0:11:21.970 --> 0:11:25.770 think the last several years have made that so apparent. 0:11:26.530 --> 0:11:30.250 We really have to reconnect between science and society because 0:11:30.290 --> 0:11:33.450 that connection is going to be so important going forward. 0:11:34.090 --> 0:11:36.010 Do you think if you were an eight year old today, 0:11:36.530 --> 0:11:38.850 you would have to describe what your eight year old 0:11:38.850 --> 0:11:42.090 self today would think if is it the same sense 0:11:42.130 --> 0:11:46.170 of infinite possibility. I think there's a frustration right now, 0:11:46.210 --> 0:11:49.330 a sense that we're not doing all we can with this, 0:11:49.970 --> 0:11:53.530 and there's a lot of reasons for it. The bright 0:11:53.850 --> 0:11:58.530 shininess of science would discover the truth and technologies would 0:11:58.530 --> 0:12:02.410 show us what's possible, and society would reap the benefits. 0:12:02.690 --> 0:12:07.530 That simple social compact is getting frayed in some ways, 0:12:08.370 --> 0:12:10.770 and there's a lot of different ways it's getting fred 0:12:10.850 --> 0:12:15.490 it's not surprising that after sixty years things would would 0:12:15.530 --> 0:12:18.610 begin to get a little tattered. But you know, if 0:12:18.610 --> 0:12:23.530 you think about it, science sometimes conflicts with economic interests. 0:12:24.210 --> 0:12:29.050 We began to see that companies might start attacking science 0:12:29.210 --> 0:12:31.890 because they really don't like the answers. I think the 0:12:31.890 --> 0:12:35.410 first case was when it became clear that cigarettes caused cancer, 0:12:36.050 --> 0:12:39.810 and tobacco companies decided to pay people to put up 0:12:39.850 --> 0:12:43.730 smoke screens and question the evidence. And then, of course, 0:12:43.770 --> 0:12:47.410 climate changes is where we see it most today, where 0:12:48.090 --> 0:12:53.290 despite massive amounts of evidence, the solutions just deny it. 0:12:53.850 --> 0:12:57.170 You know, we've got massive wildfires in California, and we've 0:12:57.170 --> 0:13:00.570 got wildfires a couple of years ago above the Arctic circle. 0:13:01.250 --> 0:13:05.890 We got glaciers retreating powerful hurricanes, you know, the last 0:13:05.930 --> 0:13:10.610 six years, the hottest years in history, and people just say, well, 0:13:10.610 --> 0:13:13.130 you know, nothing to see here, that's all just a fluke. 0:13:13.650 --> 0:13:17.490 And I think that that ability to not even have 0:13:17.570 --> 0:13:21.130 to engage is one tension that we're trying to deal 0:13:21.170 --> 0:13:24.090 with right now. Is is there a shared assumption that 0:13:24.170 --> 0:13:26.410 we have to deal with the evidence. But then there's 0:13:26.450 --> 0:13:29.770 other things. I think on science's side, sometimes science just 0:13:30.410 --> 0:13:34.290 seems to overpromise, and sometimes probably does overpromise. There are 0:13:34.330 --> 0:13:36.370 people who say, wait, wait a second, I thought you 0:13:36.370 --> 0:13:40.210 were curing cancer. How come cancers not cured yet? I 0:13:40.250 --> 0:13:43.930 think going overboard on promises and not giving people a 0:13:44.010 --> 0:13:46.570 sense of the fact that, yeah, science is amazing, but 0:13:46.610 --> 0:13:49.970 it takes a while to deliver can backfire. And I 0:13:50.050 --> 0:13:54.730 think I think there's also people who you just want 0:13:54.810 --> 0:13:58.210 answers to things and science doesn't have answers for them, 0:13:58.770 --> 0:14:02.250 and they got to go seek them somewhere. Yeah, is 0:14:02.650 --> 0:14:04.410 this kind of these kinds of ways what led you 0:14:04.450 --> 0:14:07.450 to want to do a podcast? Well exactly, you know, 0:14:07.530 --> 0:14:11.250 I think this compact between science and society is so important. 0:14:12.130 --> 0:14:14.490 It's getting tattered and we have to do something about it, 0:14:14.490 --> 0:14:19.690 and that requires drawing more people into hard problems and science. 0:14:19.770 --> 0:14:22.810 We can't we can't ignore the fact that the problems 0:14:22.850 --> 0:14:27.810 are hard. Sometimes these bright shiny futures that we talk 0:14:27.890 --> 0:14:32.970 about we really get instead dystopian outcomes. Things really can 0:14:33.090 --> 0:14:36.650 go wrong. The better living through chemistry can turn into 0:14:36.730 --> 0:14:40.570 toxic waste. The Internet that's supposed to give us all 0:14:40.650 --> 0:14:45.450 the world's information can bring us disinformation. You know. Social 0:14:45.490 --> 0:14:48.570 media that's supposed to bring us together can tear us apart. 0:14:48.650 --> 0:14:51.930 I know you're you're really interested in these topics yourself, 0:14:52.530 --> 0:14:55.290 and I think there are times when when there's just 0:14:55.330 --> 0:14:59.970 been failures of imagination to think about what could possibly 0:15:00.090 --> 0:15:04.090 go wrong. Whatever the compact was in the nineteen sixties 0:15:04.810 --> 0:15:07.410 where you kind of left it to the scientists and 0:15:07.410 --> 0:15:10.610 the politicians to work at all out, We're now going 0:15:10.690 --> 0:15:13.610 to need everybody on board. We're gonna need to open 0:15:13.650 --> 0:15:18.010 this up to more people and recognize that science might 0:15:18.050 --> 0:15:20.610 have a lot of answers about the science, but we're 0:15:20.610 --> 0:15:22.530 not going to have all the answers about how it 0:15:22.570 --> 0:15:25.330 should be applied in the world. And that was really 0:15:25.410 --> 0:15:28.410 the heart of the podcast. If we really are now 0:15:28.690 --> 0:15:32.690 all the stewards of a brave new planet, then we 0:15:33.010 --> 0:15:35.250 got to figure out how to draw everybody in on 0:15:35.290 --> 0:15:39.810 that and open it up. Would you describe yourself still 0:15:39.850 --> 0:15:44.090 as an optimist? Oh, I am a tremendous optimist in 0:15:44.170 --> 0:15:48.930 spite of lots of evidence to the contrary, because in 0:15:49.010 --> 0:15:51.810 the end, I really don't see any alternative. So I 0:15:51.930 --> 0:15:57.530 am a very realistic optimist. I think we're gonna need 0:15:57.570 --> 0:16:00.410 to fight for truth. It's not a gimme like it 0:16:00.490 --> 0:16:04.330 might have been a half century ago. I think we 0:16:04.370 --> 0:16:07.410 are gonna need to bring everybody in to help make 0:16:07.530 --> 0:16:11.370 decisions about how we should use this. It's not going 0:16:11.450 --> 0:16:13.850 to be easy. And uh, you know, there's nothing about 0:16:13.890 --> 0:16:18.730 the podcast that's advocating specific answers to anything. It's it's 0:16:18.730 --> 0:16:24.290 really meant to model smart, thoughtful, passionate people struggling with 0:16:24.330 --> 0:16:26.610 what do we do with our future? And so it's 0:16:26.650 --> 0:16:30.010 meant to invite people into that because you know, in 0:16:30.090 --> 0:16:33.450 my most optimistic self, that's how we make it through 0:16:33.570 --> 0:16:38.410 is we we all work together to struggle through hard 0:16:38.490 --> 0:16:43.650 problems that have amazing upsides, maybe big downsides, and together 0:16:43.730 --> 0:16:46.610 we make it through. And you know, these are things 0:16:46.690 --> 0:16:49.810 that they're just too big to fit in a tweet. 0:16:50.490 --> 0:16:54.890 And I'm really interested. I know you are in ideas 0:16:54.890 --> 0:16:57.330 that are too big to fit in a tweet but 0:16:57.410 --> 0:16:59.610 will end up, you know, shaping the future in a 0:16:59.650 --> 0:17:02.170 big way. And so that that was the heart of 0:17:02.170 --> 0:17:05.050 the podcast. Has there been a moment maybe not doing 0:17:05.090 --> 0:17:09.570 this podcast, but when you're dealings with others scientists in 0:17:09.650 --> 0:17:12.330 fields not your own? Is the rare for a moment 0:17:12.370 --> 0:17:15.290 when you're over your head? Will you say I have 0:17:15.330 --> 0:17:19.130 no idea what these guys talking about? Oh? Yeah, oh yeah. 0:17:19.170 --> 0:17:22.770 Frequently there were occasional times I was really deeply an 0:17:22.770 --> 0:17:25.570 expert in the subject, but you know, many many other 0:17:25.610 --> 0:17:28.330 different things. You know, I'm not an expert, and so 0:17:28.410 --> 0:17:31.130 I think what I had to learn was the right 0:17:31.210 --> 0:17:34.490 kind of scientific humility to ask dumb questions and say 0:17:34.810 --> 0:17:38.570 what exactly does that mean? And you can learn a 0:17:38.570 --> 0:17:41.570 lot from that. Yeah, yeah, I am. I am. That 0:17:41.650 --> 0:17:44.850 actually is a lovely place to end. I'm in total 0:17:44.930 --> 0:17:47.570 agreement with you. I think the key to being an 0:17:47.570 --> 0:17:53.450 effective journalist, explainer, podcast host, whatever is the willingness to 0:17:53.530 --> 0:17:57.970 ask really dumb questions. Indeed, thank you so much. This 0:17:58.010 --> 0:18:00.290 is I cannot tell you how excited I am to 0:18:00.370 --> 0:18:02.650 listen to this and how delighted I am that you 0:18:02.730 --> 0:18:07.530 have you of all people, have decided to tackle this subject. 0:18:07.530 --> 0:18:11.490 It's it is greatly needed. Oh Malcolm, thanks so much 0:18:11.530 --> 0:18:15.330 for helping us kick off this first episode. Thank you 0:18:15.330 --> 0:18:19.890 America and to all of you listeners. Come join us 0:18:20.050 --> 0:18:25.330 for episode two, where we'll hear President Richard Nixon console 0:18:25.490 --> 0:18:29.850 a grieving nation about the tragic outcome of America's failed 0:18:29.890 --> 0:18:33.930 mission to land a man on the Moon. Good evening, 0:18:34.170 --> 0:18:38.530 my fellow Americans. Fakes has ordained that the men who 0:18:38.570 --> 0:18:42.650 went to the Moon to explore and peace will stay 0:18:42.690 --> 0:18:47.370 on the Moon to rest in peace. These brave men, 0:18:48.370 --> 0:18:54.170 Meal Armstrong and Edwin Auburn know that there's no pup 0:18:54.730 --> 0:19:00.490 for their recovery. Deep Fakes next time on Brave New Planet. 0:19:02.610 --> 0:19:04.770 Brave New Planet is a co production of the Broad 0:19:04.850 --> 0:19:07.930 Institute of MT and Harvard Pushkin Industries in the Boston 0:19:08.010 --> 0:19:12.370 Globe support from the Alfred P. Sloane Foundation. Our show 0:19:12.450 --> 0:19:15.930 is produced by Rebecca Lee Douglas with Mary Dow. Theme 0:19:15.970 --> 0:19:19.730 song composed by Ned Porter, mastering and sound designed by 0:19:19.810 --> 0:19:23.290 James Garver, fact checking by Joseph Fridman, and a Stitt 0:19:23.290 --> 0:19:27.810 and Enchant. Special thanks to Christine Heenan and Rachel Roberts 0:19:27.810 --> 0:19:32.050 at Clarendon Communications, to Lee McGuire, Kristen Zarelli and Justine 0:19:32.130 --> 0:19:36.050 Levin Allerhand at the Broad, Tamil o'bell and Heather Faine 0:19:36.050 --> 0:19:39.970 at Pushkin, And to Eli and Edy Brode who made 0:19:39.970 --> 0:19:44.930 the Broad Institute possible. This is brave new planet. I'm 0:19:45.010 --> 0:19:45.570 Eric Lander.