WEBVTT - Does Sunscreen Actually Work? 0:00:03.160 --> 0:00:06.519 You're listening to Part Time Genius, the production of Kaleidoscope 0:00:06.720 --> 0:00:09.360 and iHeartRadio. 0:00:12.240 --> 0:00:13.800 Guess what, Well, what's that Mango? 0:00:14.440 --> 0:00:17.759 So the US Open starts this week and I was 0:00:17.760 --> 0:00:20.520 thinking about that old Seinfeld, the one where they're at 0:00:20.520 --> 0:00:22.239 the match talking about sunscreen. 0:00:22.320 --> 0:00:23.599 I think maybe I'm gonna need you to be a 0:00:23.680 --> 0:00:25.759 little bit more specific. I was a fan of the show, 0:00:25.760 --> 0:00:27.160 but I'm not remembering here. 0:00:27.320 --> 0:00:28.680 Let me just play this clip. 0:00:28.400 --> 0:00:32.520 For you, the ways the sunblock. Yeah, it says Papa 0:00:32.600 --> 0:00:32.839 in it. 0:00:32.880 --> 0:00:34.520 I need Papa free. 0:00:35.240 --> 0:00:36.920 You got a problem with Papa? Yes, I have a 0:00:36.920 --> 0:00:39.640 problem with Papa. You don't even know what Paba is. 0:00:40.320 --> 0:00:45.000 No enough to stay away from. Ah classic Seinfeld dialogue. 0:00:45.000 --> 0:00:47.559 It's like nothing happens and nothing matters. 0:00:47.880 --> 0:00:50.680 It is beautiful. But I kept thinking about the scene 0:00:50.720 --> 0:00:54.560 this summer because I've been getting back into playing tennis. Actually, 0:00:54.600 --> 0:00:57.040 my friend Joanna keeps making fun of me and calling 0:00:57.040 --> 0:00:59.840 me a little tennis prince because I keep talking about it. 0:01:00.120 --> 0:01:04.440 But as you probably know, I hate wearing sunscreen. I 0:01:04.520 --> 0:01:06.480 do not like the way it feels. I don't like 0:01:06.560 --> 0:01:08.720 that it doesn't quite rub into my skin, and it 0:01:08.760 --> 0:01:11.040 makes me look white or purple when I try to 0:01:11.120 --> 0:01:14.399 rub it in, but when you're spending hours outside, obviously 0:01:14.440 --> 0:01:17.920 you don't want to burn or get skin damage. And 0:01:18.040 --> 0:01:21.440 it's hard to figure out which sunscreens are actually good. 0:01:21.520 --> 0:01:24.119 So I thought maybe we could look into it a little. 0:01:24.240 --> 0:01:26.880 And I'm curious if you ever figured out what Papa is. 0:01:27.120 --> 0:01:30.080 Papa. There's some problems with Papa. I'll explain it in 0:01:30.120 --> 0:01:50.240 a minute. 0:01:51.920 --> 0:01:54.440 Hey, their podcast listeners, Welcome to Part Time Genius. I'm 0:01:54.480 --> 0:01:56.960 Will Pearson and as always I'm joined by my good 0:01:56.960 --> 0:02:00.000 friend mangesh Ho Ticketer and sitting there behind that big 0:02:00.200 --> 0:02:02.880 glass booth. Actually it's sort of hard to see him 0:02:02.920 --> 0:02:05.240 because there's a lot of white smudged all over there, 0:02:05.240 --> 0:02:10.720 and wearing armlength UV gloves, giant Hollywood sunglasses, and the 0:02:10.840 --> 0:02:13.320 top it off, he's got an umbrella hat. I didn't 0:02:13.320 --> 0:02:15.400 even know he owned one of those, which I think 0:02:16.040 --> 0:02:19.600 is a Japanese contraption he ordered online. If I'm not mistaken, 0:02:19.880 --> 0:02:21.239 that is our good friend Dylan. 0:02:22.240 --> 0:02:24.560 So I guess Dylan is really trying to protect his 0:02:24.639 --> 0:02:27.919 skin and avoiding any sun today, which is on theme, 0:02:28.240 --> 0:02:31.760 and I guess makes sense, except that we're all sitting indoors. 0:02:32.360 --> 0:02:34.680 You can never be too careful there, all right, So 0:02:34.800 --> 0:02:37.520 let's get back to sunscreen. We are old enough that 0:02:37.600 --> 0:02:40.040 when we were kids, you just run around the neighborhood 0:02:40.040 --> 0:02:43.760 without really thinking too much about sun protection, especially when 0:02:43.800 --> 0:02:47.200 it wasn't that hot out. But over time, everyone's just 0:02:47.200 --> 0:02:49.400 gotten used to putting it on all the time. I 0:02:49.440 --> 0:02:51.040 don't know if you're this way with your kids, but 0:02:51.600 --> 0:02:54.320 my kids hardly ever go outside without sunscreen on. 0:02:54.960 --> 0:02:57.639 No, it's the same over here. And it's one of 0:02:57.680 --> 0:02:59.920 those things like wine or chocolate, where every time you 0:03:00.000 --> 0:03:02.840 read an article about sunscreen, it's either like sunscreen is 0:03:02.880 --> 0:03:05.560 going to save you from cancer or sunscreen is giving 0:03:05.560 --> 0:03:08.240 you cancer, and it is hard to parse out. So 0:03:08.639 --> 0:03:10.120 I thought it'd be good to look at some of 0:03:10.160 --> 0:03:10.600 the stuff. 0:03:11.040 --> 0:03:13.239 Yeah, and I know we want to talk about Papa 0:03:13.280 --> 0:03:16.200 and sunscreens and what some of the terminology means, But 0:03:16.639 --> 0:03:19.000 why don't we start from the very beginning with a 0:03:19.040 --> 0:03:22.240 bit of a primer on where sunscreen actually comes from. 0:03:22.360 --> 0:03:25.600 Yeah, that's a good idea. So originally sunscreens and sun 0:03:25.639 --> 0:03:29.120 protection wasn't done so much out of a life saving necessity, 0:03:29.240 --> 0:03:32.919 but more out of this sort of cosmetic concern and 0:03:33.320 --> 0:03:36.440 the ancient Egyptians used various methods of sun protection because 0:03:36.520 --> 0:03:40.680 lighter skin was more desirable culturally, which obviously has been 0:03:40.720 --> 0:03:42.720 a thing all over the world. In India, they used 0:03:42.760 --> 0:03:45.080 to make this awful skin bleaching thing called fair and 0:03:45.160 --> 0:03:48.240 Lovely to make you look more light skinned. But in 0:03:48.400 --> 0:03:52.240 ancient Egypt they use stuff like rice brand, jasmine, and 0:03:52.360 --> 0:03:55.000 lupine to block the tanning effects of the sun on 0:03:55.040 --> 0:03:55.440 the skin. 0:03:56.160 --> 0:03:58.000 And did any of that stuff actually work? 0:03:58.720 --> 0:04:02.960 Yeah? So, actually rice brand absorbs UV light and jasmine 0:04:02.960 --> 0:04:06.440 helps repair DNA, and lupine's the thing that lightens the skin. 0:04:06.560 --> 0:04:08.920 So if your goal was to look like an indoor 0:04:09.000 --> 0:04:11.800 kid or a vampire, it wasn't a bad combo. But 0:04:12.280 --> 0:04:14.720 that wasn't the only way that early people protected their 0:04:14.720 --> 0:04:17.599 skin from the sun. The Greeks pioneered the idea of 0:04:17.720 --> 0:04:21.479 slathering olive oil on your skin to protect it. It 0:04:21.520 --> 0:04:25.040 turns out that olive oil has an SPF of around eight. 0:04:25.720 --> 0:04:28.320 I would have thought the exact opposite, because you always 0:04:28.360 --> 0:04:30.200 know those kids when we were younger that would like 0:04:30.240 --> 0:04:32.919 put the oil on themselves to try to get a 0:04:32.960 --> 0:04:35.479 better tan or a burn in many cases. But that's 0:04:35.520 --> 0:04:36.919 good to know, so I guess if you're out of 0:04:36.960 --> 0:04:39.880 sun's green, maybe just pivot to salad dressing. 0:04:40.600 --> 0:04:42.800 Yeah, I mean everyone of the beach loves the guy 0:04:42.839 --> 0:04:47.279 who smells like hot garlics, so totally. Some protection continues 0:04:47.279 --> 0:04:52.080 to be about racism basically well into the sixteen hundreds, 0:04:52.120 --> 0:04:55.600 and you have things like women in Europe using velvet 0:04:55.680 --> 0:04:59.880 face bizards to protect themselves. And it isn't until eight 0:05:00.160 --> 0:05:04.120 ninety six that really there's this first idea of sun 0:05:04.160 --> 0:05:07.440 exposure and skin cancer being linked that comes from a 0:05:07.480 --> 0:05:11.120 German physician named Paul Anna, and he termed these pre 0:05:11.240 --> 0:05:17.159 cancerous changes sailor's skin carcinoma or in German seema's shout 0:05:17.160 --> 0:05:17.960 a carzinome. 0:05:18.680 --> 0:05:21.920 Oh yeah, semen showers are causernome. Yeah, sc scary stuff. 0:05:21.960 --> 0:05:25.080 So how did he come up with something to protect 0:05:25.200 --> 0:05:27.880 against semen's shouder carcinome? 0:05:28.560 --> 0:05:31.200 So he did make something to help, but it wasn't 0:05:31.320 --> 0:05:34.480 very popular. It was made of horse chestnut and it 0:05:34.520 --> 0:05:37.560 was super thick and awkward on the skin. But basically 0:05:37.800 --> 0:05:40.360 two guys do emerge in the twentieth century as the 0:05:40.400 --> 0:05:43.479 godfathers of what we would recognize today as sunscreen. So 0:05:43.800 --> 0:05:47.360 the first is in nineteen forty four Benjamin Green. He's 0:05:47.400 --> 0:05:51.280 an airman and pharmacist. He used a greasy substance called 0:05:51.360 --> 0:05:55.880 red vet pet red veterinary petroleum to protect himself and 0:05:55.920 --> 0:05:59.240 other soldiers from ultraviolet rays during World War Two, and 0:05:59.440 --> 0:06:02.719 after the war he mixes this with cocoa butter and 0:06:02.760 --> 0:06:06.600 coconut oil into this product that would eventually become Coppertone 0:06:06.680 --> 0:06:10.440 Suntan Cream. And the second person is a Swiss chemistry 0:06:10.440 --> 0:06:14.039 student named Franz Greider. This is in nineteen thirty eight. 0:06:14.520 --> 0:06:18.400 He got a sunburn while climbing this mountain, Mount Pisbooon, 0:06:19.040 --> 0:06:23.680 so he invented a product called Glacier Cream and it's 0:06:23.839 --> 0:06:27.760 under the brand Pisboon. In the nineteen seventies he introduces 0:06:27.800 --> 0:06:31.960 sunscreens with ultraviolet A and ultraviolet B filters. 0:06:32.839 --> 0:06:34.479 You know, actually, I was looking up a little of 0:06:34.480 --> 0:06:37.200 the history of Coppertone, which is of course famous for 0:06:37.240 --> 0:06:40.040 that old logo with the toddler and the dog pulling 0:06:40.040 --> 0:06:42.240 at the underwear, and I guess the idea was to 0:06:42.279 --> 0:06:44.640 show a tan line there. And what's weird is that 0:06:44.680 --> 0:06:47.960 the original tagline for that campaign was don't be. 0:06:47.960 --> 0:06:51.880 A pale face, isn't uh isn't it the girl's bum 0:06:51.960 --> 0:06:54.599 that's exposed? Like why did they use that tagline? 0:06:54.760 --> 0:06:57.200 I was curious about the exact same thing, and I 0:06:57.200 --> 0:07:01.880 guess Coppertne was mainly about preventing but also allowing you 0:07:01.960 --> 0:07:04.200 to tan. And before they had that Baby on the 0:07:04.200 --> 0:07:07.360 Beach campaign, copper Tone's logo was of a Native American 0:07:07.440 --> 0:07:12.040 chief basically encouraging everyone to get tan. They later changed 0:07:12.080 --> 0:07:16.200 it to tan, Don't burn and for the fastest tan, 0:07:16.400 --> 0:07:19.160 things like that, both of which are a little more PC. 0:07:19.520 --> 0:07:22.160 But you know, obviously we're going to get into sunscreens 0:07:22.160 --> 0:07:24.320 in just a bit. But as you were talking about 0:07:24.360 --> 0:07:27.920 the ancient Egyptians who were lotioning up with rice brand 0:07:28.000 --> 0:07:31.080 and jasmine, it did get me thinking about the Dylan 0:07:31.240 --> 0:07:35.240 like approaches that some other civilizations used to protect themselves 0:07:35.280 --> 0:07:36.080 from the sun. 0:07:36.800 --> 0:07:37.840 Like umbrella hats. 0:07:38.560 --> 0:07:42.360 Well more umbrellas and hats, not really that brilliant combination 0:07:42.520 --> 0:07:45.480 that was eventually brought together. But one thing I found 0:07:45.480 --> 0:07:49.240 interesting was that parasols were symbols of status and power 0:07:49.320 --> 0:07:52.720 throughout Asia and Africa. And again this does get into 0:07:52.800 --> 0:07:56.960 racist notions where fair skin sort of signified higher birth, 0:07:57.440 --> 0:08:01.320 but ceremonial parasols which were carried by tendants. They actually 0:08:01.320 --> 0:08:05.360 helped preserve the pale complexions of the elite, which reinforced 0:08:05.400 --> 0:08:09.000 their entitlement to rule, so sun protection was actually subject 0:08:09.080 --> 0:08:12.160 to law, like for example, in Assyria, only the king 0:08:12.280 --> 0:08:15.960 himself could use a parasol. Now by this sixteen hundred's 0:08:16.000 --> 0:08:19.560 personal sun shades had filtered down to a few more 0:08:19.600 --> 0:08:23.560 of the classes, and parasols were customary and Mediterranean Europe, 0:08:23.840 --> 0:08:27.280 mostly among women, where sunburn or freckled skin was generally 0:08:27.320 --> 0:08:31.160 avoided at all costs by polite society, and gentil ladies 0:08:31.200 --> 0:08:34.719 went to great links to preserve the pale complexion expected 0:08:34.760 --> 0:08:36.120 of their rank and their sex. 0:08:36.559 --> 0:08:38.960 I know, you think about all the toxic powders that 0:08:39.040 --> 0:08:42.160 women of the court used to wear in Victorian times 0:08:42.200 --> 0:08:45.800 to make themselves whiter, or like Japanese women would wear, 0:08:46.200 --> 0:08:49.199 and it had mercury in it. I think the Victorian 0:08:49.240 --> 0:08:52.600 women had arsenic in it, and it was all to 0:08:52.640 --> 0:08:55.000 show people they were of such high class that they 0:08:55.040 --> 0:08:56.920 never had to work in the sun or be exposed 0:08:56.920 --> 0:08:59.640 as sun. But you wonder how did we go from 0:08:59.679 --> 0:09:03.599 those extremes to like tans being a sign of status. 0:09:03.880 --> 0:09:07.440 It really started in the nineteen twenties when socialites started 0:09:07.480 --> 0:09:11.960 frequenting glamorous beaches of California and the French Riviera, and 0:09:12.040 --> 0:09:15.680 it became fashionable to acquire a sun tan. And there's 0:09:15.720 --> 0:09:18.280 a lot of chatter about how Coco Chanel kind of 0:09:18.360 --> 0:09:22.360 launched a movement and used tan mannequins, but actually it 0:09:22.400 --> 0:09:23.040 predates her. 0:09:23.160 --> 0:09:25.840 Oh that's interesting. So now that we've talked a little 0:09:25.840 --> 0:09:28.400 bit about the history of sunscreens and went a little 0:09:28.400 --> 0:09:32.880 off track with parasols, let's get back to original question. 0:09:33.040 --> 0:09:36.040 Do sunscreens actually do anything? All? 0:09:36.120 --> 0:09:38.480 Right? Well, why don't we start with that Seinfeld clip 0:09:38.520 --> 0:09:40.880 U teased at the beginning of the show. So what 0:09:41.400 --> 0:09:42.240 is papa. 0:09:42.840 --> 0:09:47.040 Papa is an organic compound that can absorb UVB rays 0:09:47.200 --> 0:09:50.120 and those are the UV rays that caused sunburns. So 0:09:50.520 --> 0:09:54.040 it was a really popular ingredient in sunscreens starting in 0:09:54.040 --> 0:09:59.000 the nineteen forties. PAPA stands for para amino benzoic acid, 0:09:59.240 --> 0:10:03.280 but unfortu actunately, it caused allergic reactions in a significant 0:10:03.320 --> 0:10:06.560 part of the population. So PAPA is no longer approved 0:10:06.600 --> 0:10:09.880 by the FDA for use in sunscreens. 0:10:09.640 --> 0:10:11.800 And I'm guessing it gets banned in the nineties, like 0:10:11.840 --> 0:10:14.280 around the time of that clip from Seinfeld. 0:10:14.679 --> 0:10:18.640 So weirdly, the FDA only put PABA on its list 0:10:18.640 --> 0:10:23.480 of unsafe for ineffective compounds in twenty nineteen. So even 0:10:23.520 --> 0:10:26.520 though George Costanza warned us about PAPA way back in 0:10:26.600 --> 0:10:29.640 nineteen ninety three, the FDA does tend to move a 0:10:29.640 --> 0:10:31.120 little bit slowly on these things. 0:10:31.480 --> 0:10:34.680 Yeah, I mean to be fair, George Costanza also lied 0:10:34.720 --> 0:10:37.240 about being a marine biologist and tried to get the 0:10:37.320 --> 0:10:40.040 Yankees to wear cotton uniform so he's not exactly a 0:10:40.120 --> 0:10:45.319 trusted source. But how exactly is the FDA defining sunscreens 0:10:45.640 --> 0:10:47.559 and making some of these decisions? 0:10:47.840 --> 0:10:52.400 So I came prepared for this question. Sunscreen refers to 0:10:52.440 --> 0:10:56.600 a product in the US which is typically a lotion, cream, gel, 0:10:56.720 --> 0:11:00.480 or spray that blocks harmful UV rays from damaging your skin, 0:11:01.160 --> 0:11:04.360 and it also includes filters, which are the active ingredients 0:11:04.440 --> 0:11:10.240 in sunscreen. A sunscreen product is a mix of various moisturizers, fragrances, preservatives, 0:11:10.280 --> 0:11:13.079 and of course the filters. But these filters can vary, 0:11:13.240 --> 0:11:15.440 and in fact, I'm sure you've heard some of your 0:11:15.480 --> 0:11:19.320 fancier friends talk about how European and Asian sunscreens are 0:11:19.520 --> 0:11:20.360 far superior. 0:11:20.880 --> 0:11:22.760 Yeah, I mean people always say you got to go 0:11:22.920 --> 0:11:25.040 far away to find the best stuff. You think about 0:11:25.080 --> 0:11:28.320 Belgian chocolates, Japanese kit cats, I mean, I know you 0:11:28.360 --> 0:11:32.400 think about Japanese kit cats, Korean face mask and fried chicken, 0:11:33.040 --> 0:11:34.960 and pop music like the list goes on. 0:11:36.280 --> 0:11:38.160 I mean, the K pop thing is crazy to me. 0:11:38.240 --> 0:11:40.840 Like the last time I was in India, kids knew 0:11:40.880 --> 0:11:43.920 more about kpop than they did about American bands for 0:11:43.960 --> 0:11:46.320 the first time, and that was something that never happened 0:11:46.360 --> 0:11:49.320 in my lifetime. But back to foreign sunscreens, So the 0:11:49.480 --> 0:11:53.160 sunscreen abroad works better because the filters are actually better. 0:11:53.360 --> 0:11:55.280 There are all kinds of UV filters that have been 0:11:55.280 --> 0:11:58.840 approved for decades in Europe and Asia, but aren't approved 0:11:58.880 --> 0:12:01.880 in the US because in most of the world, sunscreen 0:12:02.000 --> 0:12:05.240 is actually classified as a cosmetic but in the US 0:12:05.280 --> 0:12:06.120 that isn't the case. 0:12:06.760 --> 0:12:07.560 And why is that. 0:12:07.920 --> 0:12:11.320 Back in nineteen thirty eight, the Federal Food, Drug and 0:12:11.360 --> 0:12:15.040 Cosmetic Act was passed and it required sunscreens to be 0:12:15.120 --> 0:12:19.240 classified as both a cosmetic and a drug and drugs 0:12:19.280 --> 0:12:20.880 have to be tested on animals. 0:12:21.360 --> 0:12:23.800 Wait, we had a law that required us to test 0:12:23.840 --> 0:12:25.200 sunscreen on animals. 0:12:25.520 --> 0:12:28.880 Yeah, I mean the intentions were good. And remember this 0:12:28.920 --> 0:12:31.880 is from nineteen thirty eight when the Act was really 0:12:32.000 --> 0:12:35.280 a huge advance in US food policy, and it took 0:12:35.320 --> 0:12:37.400 a lot of effort, Like the US largely through the 0:12:37.440 --> 0:12:40.600 efforts of women's groups, pioneered policies that were designed to 0:12:40.600 --> 0:12:44.040 protect the pocketbooks of consumers, and all these standards were 0:12:44.040 --> 0:12:48.600 implemented for safety and ensuring value. But sunscreen fell into 0:12:48.600 --> 0:12:51.240 this weird gray area because of the question of is 0:12:51.280 --> 0:12:54.800 sunscreen a drug or cosmetic? And the thing is it's 0:12:54.800 --> 0:12:57.480 pretty hard to answer. Like the way the fd and 0:12:57.559 --> 0:13:02.080 C ACT defined cosmetics is quo as articles intended to 0:13:02.120 --> 0:13:06.640 be rubbed, poured, sprinkled, or sprayed on, introduced into, or 0:13:06.760 --> 0:13:12.200 otherwise applied to the human body for cleansing, beautifying, promoting attractiveness, 0:13:12.280 --> 0:13:13.360 or altering the appearance. 0:13:13.760 --> 0:13:16.520 Okay, I mean, with the exception of sprinkling, I don't 0:13:16.520 --> 0:13:18.920 think I've ever sprinkled sunscreen, But that does sound like 0:13:18.960 --> 0:13:19.840 what sunscreen is. 0:13:20.640 --> 0:13:24.720 Yeah. And the way the FDNC defines drugs is articles 0:13:24.760 --> 0:13:28.320 intended for use in the mitigation, treatment, or prevention of disease. 0:13:28.840 --> 0:13:30.840 That that also sounds what sunscreen is. 0:13:31.559 --> 0:13:34.400 Yeah, so you see the problem, and it isn't just sunscreen. 0:13:34.480 --> 0:13:37.240 So like a lot of products fall into this both 0:13:37.320 --> 0:13:40.760 category if you think about it, like anti dandrift shampoo 0:13:41.080 --> 0:13:43.760 is a cosmetic because you know it's used to clean 0:13:43.880 --> 0:13:46.400 the hair, and it's also a drug because it's intended 0:13:46.440 --> 0:13:49.320 to treat dan drift. Toothpaste claims to freshen your breath 0:13:49.400 --> 0:13:52.000 and cleanse the teeth, but it also contains fluoride. Like, 0:13:52.240 --> 0:13:54.600 these products all have to meet the standards of both 0:13:54.640 --> 0:13:56.280 cosmetics and drugs. 0:13:56.640 --> 0:13:58.360 So to get back to the animal thing, it still 0:13:58.360 --> 0:14:00.439 sounds like one of those standards for drugs in the 0:14:00.520 --> 0:14:02.600 US is testing it on animals. 0:14:03.040 --> 0:14:05.640 Yeah, And to be clear, there was a new law 0:14:05.760 --> 0:14:08.440 passed last year that says drugs no longer have to 0:14:08.440 --> 0:14:11.320 be tested on animals. President Biden signed a law that 0:14:11.400 --> 0:14:14.840 you can use organ chips and computer modeling and other 0:14:14.880 --> 0:14:19.840 types of electronics in place of animal testing. But according 0:14:19.880 --> 0:14:22.000 to the journal Science, it'll take a while for the 0:14:22.000 --> 0:14:25.440 industry to adapt to these methods and it's unclear how 0:14:25.520 --> 0:14:28.840 much it'll actually change things because, as one scientist in 0:14:28.880 --> 0:14:31.720 the article put it, quote, we can drop a new 0:14:31.880 --> 0:14:34.720 candidate drug onto a bunch of liver cells, and we 0:14:34.720 --> 0:14:37.040 can see that it doesn't damage them, But what we 0:14:37.120 --> 0:14:39.440 don't know is whether it's going to make a person cough, 0:14:39.480 --> 0:14:41.880 whether it's going to damage their own testines or their brain. 0:14:42.120 --> 0:14:47.080 So it's a really deeply complicated issue, and drugs obviously 0:14:47.240 --> 0:14:50.880 deserve to be tested deeply, but the European Union has 0:14:50.920 --> 0:14:53.960 long banned any animal testing of cosmetics, which is how 0:14:54.000 --> 0:14:57.160 they define sunscreen, and because the regulations are more lax 0:14:57.200 --> 0:14:59.960 in places like France, they can actually innovate and test 0:15:00.240 --> 0:15:01.120 much more quickly. 0:15:02.320 --> 0:15:04.479 All right, let's talk a little bit about the specifics 0:15:04.520 --> 0:15:07.840 you see on a sunscreen, Like what type of sunscreen 0:15:07.880 --> 0:15:08.480 are you using? 0:15:08.920 --> 0:15:12.360 I try to go for every single benefit. It' says, 0:15:12.400 --> 0:15:16.960 so like a fifty plus SPF broad spectrum waterproof REEF 0:15:17.040 --> 0:15:18.000 safe sunscreen. 0:15:19.520 --> 0:15:21.520 You just said so much, nothing like you know, you 0:15:21.560 --> 0:15:23.680 don't even know. I don't think I know. 0:15:23.720 --> 0:15:29.280 I just like words and I trust advertising. But I 0:15:29.320 --> 0:15:30.800 feel like if I if I slap some of this 0:15:30.840 --> 0:15:32.800 on my face and go play a tennis, I've covered right. 0:15:33.240 --> 0:15:35.000 Yeah, I mean, the first thing you should know is 0:15:35.040 --> 0:15:38.840 that there's no such thing as an all day, waterproof, 0:15:39.000 --> 0:15:42.320 sweat proof sunscreen. So if that's what you're hoping for, 0:15:42.440 --> 0:15:44.400 it actually doesn't exist, Mango. 0:15:44.680 --> 0:15:46.520 I mean, I'm not playing that long because I'm out 0:15:46.520 --> 0:15:49.040 of ship, so all day isn't really interesting for me. 0:15:49.720 --> 0:15:52.440 That's fair. But regardless, if you're out there for more 0:15:52.480 --> 0:15:55.680 than a few sets, you just have to reapply sunscreen 0:15:55.800 --> 0:15:58.640 like the rest of us, after you sweat or swim 0:15:58.800 --> 0:16:00.680 or just after a of hours. 0:16:01.440 --> 0:16:03.800 And what about this reef safe business, Like, I don't 0:16:03.800 --> 0:16:06.360 want to hurt the reefs, and you know how much 0:16:06.400 --> 0:16:07.600 I love reefs. 0:16:07.320 --> 0:16:10.160 You love the reefs. I mean, there's no standard or 0:16:10.320 --> 0:16:14.360 regulated meaning behind reef, say for reef friendly. This is 0:16:14.360 --> 0:16:16.240 something that comes up in a lot of places like 0:16:16.280 --> 0:16:19.640 Hawaii or Australia, where they obviously want to protect the 0:16:19.760 --> 0:16:22.400 coral and so some of the sunscreens that are labeled 0:16:22.400 --> 0:16:25.480 as reef save for sunscreens that aren't using things like 0:16:25.520 --> 0:16:30.320 oxybenzone or octanoxate too filters that might be harmful to 0:16:30.400 --> 0:16:33.600 coral reefs. But some of these reef safe products use 0:16:33.680 --> 0:16:38.000 minerals like titanium dioxide, which can produce hydrogen peroxide in 0:16:38.040 --> 0:16:41.960 the water, a chemical that's actually harmful to marine organisms. 0:16:41.960 --> 0:16:44.520 So again it's it's pretty murky when you look at 0:16:44.600 --> 0:16:47.360 something like that. But the reefs are under a much 0:16:47.400 --> 0:16:50.440 greater threat from climate change than from sun's grain, to 0:16:50.480 --> 0:16:50.880 be sure. 0:16:51.440 --> 0:16:54.440 And what about the SPF label on my ies on screen? 0:16:55.040 --> 0:16:58.880 So SPF stands for sun protection factor, and it's a 0:16:58.920 --> 0:17:03.120 measure of how well sunscreen protects the skin from UVB rays, 0:17:03.240 --> 0:17:07.120 not UVA. So quick Google search tells you that SPF 0:17:07.200 --> 0:17:09.680 compares how long it would take for the sun's UV 0:17:09.880 --> 0:17:13.800 rays to red and skin without sunscreen to how long 0:17:13.840 --> 0:17:16.560 it would take with sunscreen. And if it takes twenty 0:17:16.640 --> 0:17:20.679 minutes for unprotected skin to turn red, SPF thirty. Sunscreen 0:17:20.760 --> 0:17:24.959 prevents reddening for thirty times longer. But again, some of 0:17:25.000 --> 0:17:27.960 this is a little bit murky, Like there's this book 0:17:28.000 --> 0:17:31.560 called sun Tanning in the twentieth Century, and in it 0:17:31.560 --> 0:17:35.560 it talks about how spfs are really useful for manufacturers 0:17:35.600 --> 0:17:39.320 because fear is a powerful selling tool. Like in nineteen 0:17:39.400 --> 0:17:42.879 eighty two, this Forbes piece showed that sixty five percent 0:17:42.920 --> 0:17:46.480 of all sunscreen sold had an SPF value of only 0:17:46.640 --> 0:17:51.120 SPF two to SPF eight. But by nineteen ninety two, 0:17:51.200 --> 0:17:54.320 when things like ozone holes and skin cancer were in 0:17:54.320 --> 0:17:58.960 the public conversation, and sunscreen started to have this halo quality. 0:17:59.040 --> 0:18:03.320 As this per detective goop, most sunscreens started being SPF 0:18:03.359 --> 0:18:07.959 fifteen or higher, which is obviously better for protection, but 0:18:08.000 --> 0:18:10.560 part of the reason for the change was that companies 0:18:10.600 --> 0:18:13.760 could charge more. Like at the time, companies could charge 0:18:13.800 --> 0:18:16.640 four ninety nine or so for a bottle of SPF four, 0:18:17.280 --> 0:18:21.200 almost seven dollars for SPF eight and seven ninety nine 0:18:21.200 --> 0:18:25.160 for SPF fifteen, But the numbers didn't exactly match up, 0:18:25.280 --> 0:18:29.200 like SPF fifty supposedly only gave six percent more protection 0:18:29.320 --> 0:18:33.000 than SPF fifteen, So again it's all a little confusing. 0:18:33.320 --> 0:18:35.920 So what SPF should I be using? Then? 0:18:36.240 --> 0:18:38.840 Yeah, there's this whole debate about this, and we'll get 0:18:38.880 --> 0:18:41.399 into what Australia is recommending in a bit as a 0:18:41.480 --> 0:18:44.439 nation with some of the most skin cancer. But the 0:18:44.520 --> 0:18:49.600 American Academy of Dermatology recommends SPF thirty or higher, with 0:18:49.680 --> 0:18:54.440 an emphasis on higher, like most recommend anything from SPF 0:18:54.520 --> 0:18:55.800 fifty to seventy. 0:18:56.240 --> 0:18:58.439 Great, so I feel like at least I'm covered on 0:18:58.480 --> 0:19:02.280 that front. And what about the bit that says broad spectrum. 0:19:02.440 --> 0:19:05.080 Yeah, broad spectrum is a real term, but it means 0:19:05.119 --> 0:19:08.040 a lot of different things. So in the US, broad 0:19:08.080 --> 0:19:12.800 spectrum refers only to protection against UVA light. In Europe, 0:19:12.840 --> 0:19:16.639 broad spectrum also refers to the quality of UVB shielding. 0:19:17.080 --> 0:19:20.000 So brands earn the right to use that term broad 0:19:20.040 --> 0:19:24.760 spectrum if laboratory measurements of UVA protection are at least 0:19:24.760 --> 0:19:29.080 a third the values of laboratory measurements of UVB protection. 0:19:29.200 --> 0:19:30.960 You got this right. This is all super clear. 0:19:32.160 --> 0:19:35.800 So remind me what's the difference between VA and UVV, Like, 0:19:35.840 --> 0:19:37.000 which one's the bad one. 0:19:37.200 --> 0:19:40.960 Well, they can actually both be harmful. So UVB radiation 0:19:41.119 --> 0:19:44.320 makes up about five percent of the sun's UV light. 0:19:44.840 --> 0:19:48.600 It causes sunburns, damages the top layers of the skin, 0:19:48.920 --> 0:19:52.800 can cause DNA mutations that lead to skin cancer. And 0:19:52.960 --> 0:19:56.399 UVA radiation makes up about ninety five percent of the 0:19:56.440 --> 0:19:59.960 sun's UV light, and these rays penetrate deep into the skin. 0:20:00.240 --> 0:20:03.280 They go past the epidermis, which is that outermost layer 0:20:03.320 --> 0:20:06.560 of course, and into the dermis, which is that middle layer. 0:20:06.920 --> 0:20:09.359 They can even pass through glass, which is why you 0:20:09.400 --> 0:20:12.440 can get a sunburn while driving or sitting by a window. 0:20:13.160 --> 0:20:15.840 So these are the rays that caused sun tans. They 0:20:15.880 --> 0:20:20.840 cause wrinkles, sunspots, collagen damage, and those signs of aging. 0:20:21.240 --> 0:20:24.160 But what many people don't realize is that UVA rays 0:20:24.200 --> 0:20:26.800 can also cause cancer. I mean, all of. 0:20:26.720 --> 0:20:29.679 This is so scary. So if you buy a bottle 0:20:29.680 --> 0:20:32.240 of sunscreen in the US and it says broad spectrum, 0:20:32.600 --> 0:20:35.760 it means it might not protect against UVB light at all. 0:20:36.720 --> 0:20:39.080 I mean not only that, but according to a twenty 0:20:39.160 --> 0:20:43.000 ten Environmental Working Group analysis of four hundred and forty 0:20:43.040 --> 0:20:47.240 six beach and sports sunscreens, all of which had SPF 0:20:47.320 --> 0:20:51.600 ratings of thirty plus, nearly two thirds of them provided 0:20:51.680 --> 0:20:56.159 inadequate UVA protection, and a product survey by Procter and 0:20:56.200 --> 0:20:58.600 Gamble in two thousand and four noted that a third 0:20:58.640 --> 0:21:03.159 of products that claimed spectrum protection on the label didn't 0:21:03.200 --> 0:21:06.600 actually provide it. The most common UVA filter in the 0:21:06.680 --> 0:21:09.919 US is avibin zone, which was the last big filter 0:21:10.080 --> 0:21:13.560 approved in the US in the nineteen nineties. But among 0:21:13.640 --> 0:21:16.359 the UVA filters approved in Europe, the good ones we 0:21:16.520 --> 0:21:21.240 can't get, like three of them, tenosorb S, tenosorb M, 0:21:21.520 --> 0:21:25.480 and mexiil SX are between four and five times more 0:21:25.520 --> 0:21:27.760 protective than avibenzone. 0:21:27.880 --> 0:21:29.880 So I get that Europe and Asia have all these 0:21:29.920 --> 0:21:33.880 advanced sunscreens because of our I guess, rigorous testing process. 0:21:33.920 --> 0:21:37.080 But how do we know if these foreign filters are 0:21:37.119 --> 0:21:37.880