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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here,

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Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election.

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Speaker 1: Breakingpoints dot com well. Senator Tom Cotton of Arkansas Republican

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Speaker 1: had a pretty fascinating exchange in the Senate this week

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Speaker 1: with actually over Kroger. There's a merger that Matt Stolen

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Speaker 1: and others have covered very well between Kroger and Albertson's

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Speaker 1: before the government right now, I think a merger that's

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Speaker 1: worth blocking, certainly on anti trust grounds. And Senator Cotton

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Speaker 1: confronted Kroger today on the anti trust case over basically

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Speaker 1: woke concerns, saying, don't come crying to Senate Republicans over

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Speaker 1: anti to get us to stop a merger from being

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Speaker 1: blocked when you are harming or going after Christians in

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Speaker 1: your workplace now, whether or not you think the steps

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Speaker 1: Kroger took amounted to harmon Christians in the workplace. We'll

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Speaker 1: get into the marginalized community, a marginalized community. Let's play

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Speaker 1: the clip first and then get into some of those details.

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Speaker 1: This situation reminds me a little bit of the situation

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Speaker 1: big tech companies have found themselves in in recent years.

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Speaker 1: They've come to Washington because they fear regulation from our

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Speaker 1: Democratic friends or action by the Biben administration, and they

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Speaker 1: expect Republicans, who are traditionally more supportive of free enterprise,

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Speaker 1: to come to their defense. And I've cautioned them for

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Speaker 1: years that if they silence conservatives and center right voters

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Speaker 1: across the country, if they discriminate against them in their company,

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Speaker 1: they probably shouldn't come and ask Republican senators to carry

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Speaker 1: the water for them whenever our Democratic friends want to

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Speaker 1: regulate them or block their mergers. So I've heard a

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Speaker 1: lot a lot of questions about that today, and I've

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Speaker 1: read a lot about it in the news, and I'll

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Speaker 1: say this, I'm sorry that's happening to you. Best of luck.

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Speaker 1: So conservatives saw this and we're just cheering wildly for

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Speaker 1: it and saying more of this, more of this, more

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Speaker 1: of this, and listen. I agree more of this for sure,

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Speaker 1: But this is again verbal. It is an exchange in

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Speaker 1: the Senate on c span that will be clipped and

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Speaker 1: will be circulated. And there is a very big difference

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Speaker 1: between saying something like this in the Senate and supporting

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Speaker 1: and I'm not accusing Tom Cotton. This is about the

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Speaker 1: Republican Party more broadly supporting appointments to for instance, the

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Speaker 1: FTC that will allow mergers like this to go through,

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Speaker 1: that will allow, by the way, as you merge. Matt

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Speaker 1: Stoller makes this point very well, the consolidation becomes a

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Speaker 1: consolidation of viewpoints and there's less competition for viewpoint management,

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Speaker 1: et cetera, et cetera. Now, Tom Cotton's complaint is basically

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Speaker 1: that there's a suit that was brought by the Equal

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Speaker 1: Ployment Opportunity Commission in twenty twenty that was brought on

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Speaker 1: behalf of two Kroger employees that didn't want to wear

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Speaker 1: Kroger aprons that they interpreted as being in support of

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Speaker 1: the Pride movement. They had rainbow hearts stitched onto the aprons.

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Speaker 1: I want to wear the flare and Kroger said this

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Speaker 1: is just part of our new marketing campaign. It's not

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Speaker 1: LGBT related. But they actually settled to the tune of

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Speaker 1: one hundred and eighty thousand dollars with these two employees

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Speaker 1: because the employees said, can we wear our name tags

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Speaker 1: over the heart or I will pay to get myself

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Speaker 1: into Yeah, that's well, that's what Kroger said until they settled.

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Speaker 1: And so that's I think the heart of Tom Cotton's

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Speaker 1: issue with Kroger. I'm sure, I'm sure Kroger has other

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Speaker 1: maybe objectionable diversity policies that get into questionable territory. That's

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Speaker 1: that's probably the case. But this was the high profile

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Speaker 1: sort of complaint against Kroger in recent years, again saying

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Speaker 1: it is one thing taking action on behalf that would

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Speaker 1: actually make it harder for organizations like this to impose

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Speaker 1: a viewpoint, but also just would be better economically as

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Speaker 1: an entire entirely different thing. So Tom Cotton wants free enterprise,

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Speaker 1: but not like that basically, Well, Tom Cotton introduced a

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Speaker 1: federal minimum wage increase bill. There go, he's taken some

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Speaker 1: interesting steps. What what regulations would Tom Cotton like around uniforms? Like,

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Speaker 1: who's going to like does he want an agency that

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Speaker 1: is in charge of like inspecting uniforms for like political

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Speaker 1: compliance with GOP orthodoxy. Well, does he believe, like Mark

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Speaker 1: Rubio that employees in situations like this should be able

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Speaker 1: to handle it through unions? Right, this is something that

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Speaker 1: Marco Marco Rubio, he has a different plan to create

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Speaker 1: organizations similar to the unions, but a little bit different.

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Speaker 1: But he has in the past said at places like Amazon,

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Speaker 1: it would make increasing sense to have employees, when they

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Speaker 1: old their viewpoints are being bulldozed by corporate people in

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Speaker 1: C suites in Manhattan, to litigate some of those problems

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Speaker 1: through collective bargaining. Yeah. And also then there's some union protections.

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Speaker 1: If a union worker doesn't want to wear the flare,

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Speaker 1: then at least, you know, then they can they can

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Speaker 1: fight it out through the agreements process or the Yeah,

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Speaker 1: rather than in the precarious situation where workers, you know,

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Speaker 1: have so many fewer rights in situations where they're not

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Speaker 1: not in unionized stores. Well, in this case, the EOC

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Speaker 1: won the settlement to again the tune of one hundred

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Speaker 1: and eighty thousand dollars because it fired Kroger, fired the

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Speaker 1: two employees. And that's where the suit came in for

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Speaker 1: not wearing the flair, for not wearing the flare. That's

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Speaker 1: an Office Space reference if people, if people haven't seen him,

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Speaker 1: mabe this before a lot of yours time. Incredible, incredible movie.

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Speaker 1: I'm just not a big Office Space fan, so I'm

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Speaker 1: probably you get so many comments about that great movie.

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Speaker 1: It's notice to quit over the Flare. It's not a

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Speaker 1: bad movie, but it's like has cult status, and I

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Speaker 1: feel like maybe that's overstated. Anyway, it is. It is

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Speaker 1: fun to see support for uh cracking down on big business.

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Speaker 1: It's particularly with anti trust and then but also more

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Speaker 1: broadly from Republicans, even if it has to come because

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Speaker 1: uh it won the tech side, or it's around censorship,

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Speaker 1: and I guess in the grocery store side it's even

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Speaker 1: around censorship too. Uh whatever, I guess whatever brings them

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Speaker 1: to the battle against corporate power is a good thing.

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Speaker 1: It takes, you, know, a coalition, takes people who are

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Speaker 1: there for all sorts of different reasons. And if you

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Speaker 1: and if you get to a place where the people

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Speaker 1: have more control over the over society democratically rather than

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Speaker 1: corp corporate America exerting, it's it's influenced undemocratically, then okay,

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Speaker 1: that's a good thing and good good for Tom Cotton. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and you can count probably on one hand, the Senators,

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Speaker 1: as it might be, would take what would take a

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Speaker 1: position like this from Tom Cotton when it comes to

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Speaker 1: actually voting on things and not downplaying, you know, saying

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Speaker 1: this publicly and saying it in the Senate. But you

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Speaker 1: know you can you can say Tom Cotton, Mark or Rubio,

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Speaker 1: Josh Hawley, certainly jd Vance when he enters the Senate.

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Speaker 1: And that doesn't amount to an earth shattering change in

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Speaker 1: the Republican Party because it's still limited to them. And

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Speaker 1: if it's limited to them, it'll you'll get viral clips

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Speaker 1: like that, but you won't get a different FTC. You

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Speaker 1: won't get changes. And the case that I've made repeatedly

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Speaker 1: to Republicans is that if you have if you see

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Speaker 1: uh the C Suites telling folks in Ohio that they

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Speaker 1: can't wear a name badge over their union. If you

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Speaker 1: see that, or they can't wear a name badge over

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Speaker 1: the the heart, if you see that, you should look

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Speaker 1: into what Amazon Warehouses safety records look like compared to Walmart,

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Speaker 1: compared to other major competitors, because if they're doing that

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Speaker 1: on the cultural level, imagine what they're getting away with

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Speaker 1: on other things. So it's just a really good glimpse,

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Speaker 1: I think, for Republicans into what corporations will do when

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Speaker 1: they're so divorced from their actual workers. They're in Manhattan,

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Speaker 1: they're in DC, they're in LA wherever they are. I

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Speaker 1: think Kroger's technically based in Ohio, but the point remains

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Speaker 1: that you have people who are culturally assescio economically very

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Speaker 1: diverse from the workers they're overseeing, and without those intermediaries,

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Speaker 1: that's dangerous both on a viewpoint level, but certainly, as

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Speaker 1: we've seen with Amazon, on just a physical level as well.

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Speaker 1: I would expect on its merits that the FTC and

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Speaker 1: Lean and Conn will will block this merger. We'll see,

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Speaker 1: I would expect for as well on the Wolkeness aside.

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Speaker 1: But so Tom Cotton can Tom Cotton will not be

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Speaker 1: riding to the defense of Kroger. Sounds good to me,

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Speaker 1: all right, It's good interesting times, that's for sure. Senate

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Speaker 1: Majority Leader Chuck Schumer is warning corporate America that now

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Speaker 1: that they will have fifty one senators, they will have

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Speaker 1: expanded subpoena power. Previously, in a fifty to fifty divided Senate,

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Speaker 1: it was impossible without Republican at least one Republican vote

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Speaker 1: and committee to issue subpoenas two corporations. With Raphael Warnock's

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Speaker 1: victory this week, they will have a majority on the committee,

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Speaker 1: so won't need Republicans will be able to issue spenis.

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Speaker 1: Chuck Schumer said, quote subpoena power can deal with corporate

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Speaker 1: corruption and inequities and other problems throughout the country at

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Speaker 1: a news conference, warning them that this could be coming.

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Speaker 1: What's your take on this. I mean, it's a good

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Speaker 1: example of why, or good indication of why that eighty

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Speaker 1: million dollars race was money well spent for Democrats because procedurally,

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Speaker 1: in terms of the rules of the Senate, there is

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Speaker 1: a lot you can do when you add Rafael Warnock

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Speaker 1: into the mix. When you go from fifty to fifty one,

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Speaker 1: that's actually a very significant difference. Obviously, we know they

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Speaker 1: had Kamala Harris to break the tie, but when you

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Speaker 1: have the coalition of Cinema and Mansion, that I think

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Speaker 1: took arrows for other people who haven't been a public

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Speaker 1: about their opposition to some of the legislation that mansion

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Speaker 1: and cinema have gotten major changes implemented into that fifty one.

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Speaker 1: That's a huge, huge deal. And this is just one

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Speaker 1: reason why. Now it's always important to remember with Chuck Schumer,

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Speaker 1: one of his daughters is at Facebook, the other's at Amazon, right,

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Speaker 1: he has pretty close ties to tech. I think that's

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Speaker 1: probably why some of the bills haven't gotten to the floor.

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Speaker 1: At least that's what I've heard from folks with some

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Speaker 1: knowledge of it, that it's a matter of priorities. So

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Speaker 1: while Chuck Schumer might if he's forced to support some

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Speaker 1: of these measures anti corporate measures, especially in the tech sector,

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Speaker 1: he also doesn't have to bring him to the floor.

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Speaker 1: I don't think it's his kids that is preventing that.

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Speaker 1: I think it's more just the power of big tech broadly. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I did mean as kids, yeah, because I think but

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Speaker 1: I think it's an indication of the closeness certainly to power. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And and in the two thousands when all the Democrats

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty tents, when Democrats were like leaving the Obama

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Speaker 1: administration and leaving Senate House, going to big tech was

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Speaker 1: seen as like the non sellout way to go make money.

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Speaker 1: This is the utopian right. You weren't going to the banks,

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Speaker 1: you weren't going to the big oil. You were going

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Speaker 1: to the disruptors changing the world, change, making the world

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Speaker 1: a better players, not doing any evil. So as a result,

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Speaker 1: there's a ton ton of Democrats that are staffing a

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Speaker 1: lot of these big tech companies. I saw that Tybe

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Speaker 1: had highlighted that Twitter's giving from employees was ninety nine

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Speaker 1: percent to Democrats. Usually it's like eighty twenty if it's imbalanced.

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Speaker 1: It was ninety nine to one. Facebook is probably a

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Speaker 1: little bit more balanced, but I suspect it it probably is.

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Speaker 1: So anyway, Senator Bernie Sanders was asked by reporters if

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Speaker 1: he's going to be looking forward as Chairman of the

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Speaker 1: Budget Committee to using the subpoena power. He said, it's

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Speaker 1: a little bit early, but the answer is yes. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Elizabeth Warren was asked. She said, oh yes, oh yes.

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Speaker 1: And Warren is the most strategic of of the Senate

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Speaker 1: Democrats when it comes to, you know, targeting subpoenas in

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Speaker 1: a way that can then advance some type of not

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Speaker 1: just legislative agenda, but regulatory as well. Because it's her

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Speaker 1: allies who are running the FTC and running the cfp B.

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Speaker 1: So Warren has built, you know, a sizable power structure

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Speaker 1: inside Washington that when you when you add a subpoena

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Speaker 1: power to it, you know, becomes that much more formidable

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Speaker 1: because she could also I don't I don't know if

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Speaker 1: this is happening, but I would expect it would that

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Speaker 1: that people in the cfp B or FTC or other

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Speaker 1: regular could back channel. Hey, look, we're you know, we're

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Speaker 1: hitting a wall with this fraudulent company. A little you know,

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Speaker 1: a little subpoena or a letter from you might might

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Speaker 1: be able to shake something loose right here. So I

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Speaker 1: think that Bloomberg's right to warrants readership that they should

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Speaker 1: be a be on the lookout. They'll bolo. Is there

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Speaker 1: anything in your wish list corporation you don't want to see? Supreme?

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Speaker 1: I think I think some of the like some of

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Speaker 1: the low hanging fruit, maybe medical debt companies, student students,

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Speaker 1: lending servicers. Uh. I love it if they would go

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Speaker 1: after some of the fundraising email scammers, anybody like you know,

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Speaker 1: the robo call types like you do, some of that

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Speaker 1: stuff that like that as a combination of really annoying

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Speaker 1: to people. But then on the on the debt collection front,

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Speaker 1: people like, you know, really breaking laws some of that

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Speaker 1: looking at all sorts of profiteering when when it came

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Speaker 1: to h you know, price increases during during the pandemic

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Speaker 1: and not just energy companies, but you can look at

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Speaker 1: the comments that a lot of the CEOs are making

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Speaker 1: at their their quarterly presentations car companies or they're saying

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Speaker 1: where they're basically saying that we're using this environment as

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Speaker 1: an used to raise prices. Whenever you find one of those,

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Speaker 1: then you go into subpoena and see if you can

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Speaker 1: find you know, price fixing, other types of manipulation that

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Speaker 1: involves collusion. And then you could even see corporations starting

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Speaker 1: to bring prices down because it might be more important

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Speaker 1: for them to stay ahead of that type of investigation

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Speaker 1: if they were actually if they're like, oh wait, we

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Speaker 1: did do that, oh and I'd love There are a

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Speaker 1: lot of high profile Republicans. Again, I don't think this

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Speaker 1: indicates of stee change in the Republican Party at all,

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Speaker 1: but there are a handful. This is a Senate that

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Speaker 1: Jade Bance will be in of Republicans that would love

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Speaker 1: to join in a pylon on some of these corporations,

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Speaker 1: probably not all of them, but you get you know,

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Speaker 1: Larry Fank and Blackrock, give them a subpoena and just watch.

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Speaker 1: Replica House have their own subpoenas that they can fire

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Speaker 1: off at black Rock, so make sure they will plenty

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Speaker 1: of those. So we could be looking at a circus

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Speaker 1: that is at least somewhat enjoyable, sure from our vantages,

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Speaker 1: right these CEOs around, Yeah, well, I'm looking forward to that.

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Speaker 1: Excellent President Biden chose not to put seven days of

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Speaker 1: sick leave into the into the tentative agreement that he

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Speaker 1: sent to Congress. The Congress, the House of Representative famously

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Speaker 1: tried to add seven days, kicked it over to the Senate,

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Speaker 1: which stripped it out and passed it as Biden had

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Speaker 1: initially sent it to Congress without those sick days. The

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Speaker 1: unions have vowed to push ahead, demanding that they be

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Speaker 1: included in an executive order that gives sick leave to

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Speaker 1: all employees of companies that have federal contracts. Joining us

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Speaker 1: now to follow up on this is Matthew Cunningham Cook,

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Speaker 1: who with his colleagues over at lever News has been

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Speaker 1: following this extremely closely. So first of all, Matthew, we

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Speaker 1: welcome to breaking Points. Thanks for having me on, guys,

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Speaker 1: and so so what are you hearing though? Pretty pretty

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Speaker 1: soon after this this defeat and when Biden signed the law,

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Speaker 1: he was asked, you know when are worker is going

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Speaker 1: to get seven six days? And he said, well when

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Speaker 1: I when I convinced Republicans to go along. But as

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Speaker 1: you've pointed out, there are other ways there. So what

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Speaker 1: are what are those other ways? And why should people

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Speaker 1: be confident not confident? Why should people believe it's possible

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Speaker 1: it can happen if if Biden chose not to include

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Speaker 1: in the first place. I think the main takeaway is

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Speaker 1: that it's something that Biden can and should take pick

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Speaker 1: a fight on. So I think that there's certainly any

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Speaker 1: executive order that extended paid sickly to railroad workers would

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Speaker 1: almost certainly be litigated in the courts. I think that's

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Speaker 1: basically a guarantee. But in the past, very recently with

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Speaker 1: the vaccine mandate, the railroad industry has said that they

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Speaker 1: are federal contractors, so it seems like they could be

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Speaker 1: included with this. Prior concerns about preemption with railroad laws

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Speaker 1: seem to have focused on state based legislation, So I

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Speaker 1: think the executive order is one route. I think the

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Speaker 1: other route, which potentially might be on more solid legal

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Speaker 1: ground and addresses a broader gamut of issues that railroad

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Speaker 1: workers are facing, is with this fatigue management rulemaking process

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Speaker 1: that was mandated in this two thousand and eight law

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Speaker 1: reforming railroad safety, where the Secretary of Transportation and the

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Speaker 1: Federal Railroad Administration were directed by Congress to begin comprehensive

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Speaker 1: rulemaking to ensure that railroad workers aren't so fatigued. And

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Speaker 1: the reason why this is so important is is because

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Speaker 1: when railroad workers are fatigued, it's much more likely that

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Speaker 1: there's going to be a crash, that there's going to

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Speaker 1: be ecological disasters, people killed. This. You know, railroads are

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Speaker 1: not just transiting consumer goods. They transit dangerous chemicals, oil, coal,

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Speaker 1: all things that really are not the safest things to

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Speaker 1: be transporting. So that rulemaking began earlier this year, and

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Speaker 1: now the railroad industry is required by next July to

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Speaker 1: submit fatigue management plans and they're supposed to be developing

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Speaker 1: them in concert with the unions, and there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of skepticism right now from the unions. How seriously they're

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Speaker 1: going to take it. That's a nice question. I think

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Speaker 1: it's it's basically incumbent on Secretary Buddhatage to mandate that

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Speaker 1: these plans include a rollback on these these heinous attendance

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Speaker 1: policies that were implemented outside of the collective bargaining process.

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Speaker 1: For the most part, BNSF Warren Buffett's Railroad has the

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Speaker 1: most aggressive of them that was implemented in February, and

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Speaker 1: it's that was where the paid sick leave demand came from,

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Speaker 1: is a response to these new, really onerous attendance policies.

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Speaker 1: So that I think that that might be even on

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Speaker 1: more solid legal ground, is basically Bodhachi saying I'm not

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Speaker 1: going to say it sign off on any plan submitted

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Speaker 1: by the railroads unless we see a real rollback of

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Speaker 1: these attendance policies. Uh. And that you've we've really kind

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Speaker 1: of consulted with the unions on how to reduce railroad

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Speaker 1: worker fatigue, and that you know, it seems like you're

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Speaker 1: taking those concerns seriously. So those are kind of the

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Speaker 1: two you know, main routes, I think to uh, to

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Speaker 1: moving forward. I think there's a bunch of other kind

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Speaker 1: of things too, you know, I mean as part of

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Speaker 1: this that really are just kind of statements of principles

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Speaker 1: or policy from the administration. The administration could President Biden

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Speaker 1: could say to the railroads, I just gave you guys

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Speaker 1: a huge favor, and you know, I'm going to be

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Speaker 1: watching you very closely, you know, railroad company CEOs. And

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Speaker 1: that hasn't really happened either. So I think there's what

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Speaker 1: our reporting kind of showed is that there's there's a

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Speaker 1: wide range of options that the administration can take to

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Speaker 1: help railroad workers, and it's it's really about being creative

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Speaker 1: at this point, just like the administration was frankly very

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Speaker 1: creative when it came to the ocean vaccine mandate, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, where they saw kind of an urgent public

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Speaker 1: health issue and kind of said, you know, we're going

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Speaker 1: to say that this matters more than anything else, and

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Speaker 1: we're going to implement uh this policy. And so I

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Speaker 1: think the same kind of level of creativity that they

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Speaker 1: engaged in with the oceanman vaccine mandate, they could choose

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Speaker 1: to engage in with railroad workers as well. That's a

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Speaker 1: great parallel, and you can also see it in the

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Speaker 1: student loan debt relief there were clearly there was some

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Speaker 1: clear like innovation in terms of procedural innovation in that vein.

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Speaker 1: So I want to ask then, also, Matthew, kind of

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Speaker 1: the obvious question, which is is it your sense, having

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Speaker 1: looked at these mechanisms boota judge is obviously aware that

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Speaker 1: he's going to have to sign off on something. Is

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Speaker 1: it your sense that the Biden administration is aware these

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Speaker 1: routes and these mechanisms exist to tackle the issue. Do

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Speaker 1: they know that they have this power? And then how

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Speaker 1: confident are you or not confident is perhaps the case

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Speaker 1: that they'll actually take any action here. I'd be astounded

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Speaker 1: if they didn't know. I mean, again, you know, it's

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Speaker 1: the main thing is is that if they didn't know

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Speaker 1: that they can't take concrete, immediate actions to improve safety

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Speaker 1: on the railroads right now, that would be astounding to me.

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Speaker 1: And if they don't understand that, you know, humans are

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Speaker 1: a critical part of safety and workers are a critical

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Speaker 1: part of safety, that would fly in the face of

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Speaker 1: basically every piece of rhetoric of this administration. So I

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Speaker 1: think that they are aware. I think that what they're

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Speaker 1: kind of dealing with is, you know, a very powerful

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Speaker 1: railroad industry lobby that is opposed to anything that will

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Speaker 1: improve safety on the railroads. So that's that's kind of

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Speaker 1: my main takeaway I think in terms of seeing action,

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, the biggest issue I think is

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Speaker 1: that railroad workers are one hundred and fifteen thousand workers

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Speaker 1: divided into seven different international unions with not a lot

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Speaker 1: of coherence or kind of a common strategy. And so

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Speaker 1: that would be kind of my first kind of feeling

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Speaker 1: is that And this is really kind of what railroad

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Speaker 1: Workers United, this worker organization that unites railroad workers across

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Speaker 1: different unions and crafts, is really pushing for, is for

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Speaker 1: some kind of more cohesion I think for railroad workers

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Speaker 1: as to a common approach not only with Washington, but

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Speaker 1: I think in state capitals and with the media, with

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Speaker 1: the corporate media as well. So that's I mean, when

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Speaker 1: you have such kind of levels of diffusion in the

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Speaker 1: union workforce, it's hard to kind of see a coherent

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Speaker 1: strategy for getting more out of the Biden administration. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I just real quickly wanted to underscore the delicious nugger

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Speaker 1: that you guys, you know on Earth in your in

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Speaker 1: your reporting or draw drawing the connection between the carriers

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Speaker 1: telling the courts that they are in fact federal contractors

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Speaker 1: so that they could mandate their employees take the have

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Speaker 1: to take the COVID vaccine. That's that seems like it's

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Speaker 1: going to be pretty tough for them to walk back.

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Speaker 1: They would obviously twist themselves and pretzels to do it.

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Speaker 1: But if if you're the Biden administration at this point,

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Speaker 1: all you have to do is cite the carrier's own

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Speaker 1: claim that they settle conscious. Then they say, well, it

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Speaker 1: would be so confusing to figure out which employees work

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Speaker 1: on you know, which trains carrying you know, federal freight

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Speaker 1: and which ones are carrying private freight. It's like, well,

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Speaker 1: you didn't seem concerned about that when you were saying, well,

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Speaker 1: only these employees are mandated to get the vaccine, but

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Speaker 1: these employees employees don't. That's that seems like a pretty

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Speaker 1: rich vein for for the administration there. And yeah, that

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Speaker 1: was my colleague Rebecca Burns who who on earthed that.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, I think it's I think it's a very

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Speaker 1: very good point. You know, I mean, I think that

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Speaker 1: what we see from the Roberts Court is that they

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Speaker 1: will kind of, you know, change their reasoning on a

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Speaker 1: dime to kind of justify whatever, you know, Jenny Thomas

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Speaker 1: kind of wants at a given moment. But it's certainly worth,

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Speaker 1: you know, trying. And I mean, I think the other

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Speaker 1: thing is is it's good to pick fights with the

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Speaker 1: Roberts Court. You know, this is a fundamentally undemocratic institution

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Speaker 1: that frequently relies on precedent from slaveholding era or from

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Speaker 1: the Gilded Age to justify it's increasingly deranged decision making processes.

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Speaker 1: And I think, you know, challenging that makes a lot

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Speaker 1: of sense. Both agreed with every word of that. Ry

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Speaker 1: fully unbored with that. That's a discussion for another time,

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Speaker 1: but it is. I mean, if the Biden administration wasn't

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Speaker 1: aware of what Rebecca unearthed there before, they sure as

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Speaker 1: hell are now. Yes, yeah, yeah, it's such a it

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Speaker 1: seems like such a layup. It seems like special Obviously,

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Speaker 1: it's it's easy for us to say when they're hearing

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Speaker 1: from the railroad industry and they like to keep the

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Speaker 1: railroad industry super happy. But from a political perspective, let

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Speaker 1: alone a moral perspective. It seems like such a layup. Yeah,

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00:26:56,480 --> 00:27:01,400
Speaker 1: absolutely well. Great reporting is always from lever Matthew Cunningham Cooke.

429
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:03,760
Speaker 1: Thanks so much for joining us. Thanks so much for

430
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:09,119
Speaker 1: having me on. Guys appreciate it. The top rasts that

431
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:12,879
Speaker 1: the military are pushing to keep the vaccine mandate in place,

432
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:17,280
Speaker 1: even as Republicans are pressing the Biden administration to end

433
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:20,399
Speaker 1: the military vaccine mandate and are also trying to use

434
00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:23,640
Speaker 1: the National Defense Authorization Actors it must must pass piece

435
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:27,040
Speaker 1: of legislation that is currently being negotiated in Congress to

436
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:31,520
Speaker 1: force the military to end to end it's we could

437
00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:33,600
Speaker 1: put up a one here to put to end its

438
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:37,520
Speaker 1: vaccine mandate. This is Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin saying that

439
00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:40,800
Speaker 1: that they believed that for military readiness it was important

440
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:45,800
Speaker 1: that they keep the vaccine in place. What's your read

441
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:48,200
Speaker 1: on on, First of all, how do you think this

442
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 1: is going to go? Do you think Republicans will succeed

443
00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:54,640
Speaker 1: in getting this into the NDAA and ending this Ending

444
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:58,280
Speaker 1: the mandate depends on how hard the Pentagon pushes back.

445
00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:00,320
Speaker 1: This is a sign that they're at least pushing back,

446
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:02,560
Speaker 1: but it depends on and Austin is doubling down right.

447
00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:04,520
Speaker 1: He says, I'm the guy. Quote, I'm the guy. I'm

448
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:06,440
Speaker 1: the guy who did this, and I'm sticking in it.

449
00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:09,000
Speaker 1: I'm sticking with it. I'm not walking it back. But

450
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:11,359
Speaker 1: listen to that. I mean the Army National Guard, they

451
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:14,640
Speaker 1: have projected losing up to fourteen thousand members for vaccine

452
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:17,640
Speaker 1: non compliance alone. That doesn't even count how many people

453
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:20,080
Speaker 1: are just not signing up because they don't want the

454
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:22,520
Speaker 1: mandate or they don't want to get the vaccine or

455
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:25,920
Speaker 1: be mandated to do it. And that's just the National Guard.

456
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:29,720
Speaker 1: They are missing their recruitment targets, like across the board,

457
00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:34,760
Speaker 1: the military is and the NDAA, a little inside baseball

458
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:39,880
Speaker 1: like congressional procedural nonsense has become the thing that everyone

459
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:43,040
Speaker 1: is trying to basically push their pet project in right

460
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:46,000
Speaker 1: now because it looks like they're doing a cr instead

461
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:48,400
Speaker 1: of an omnibus to fund the government by year end,

462
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:50,920
Speaker 1: which means we got to get the stuff in the NDAA.

463
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:54,320
Speaker 1: This is Preslary. I was just going to say, at

464
00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:58,080
Speaker 1: least related, but that's what complicates the negotiations here. As

465
00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:01,280
Speaker 1: Ryan said, it's an absolute much past you have to

466
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:04,960
Speaker 1: pass the NDAA, and so there's all this conversation about

467
00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:09,560
Speaker 1: poison pills. Ryan, do you think Democrats end up caving

468
00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:12,560
Speaker 1: on this? Even as La County is right now talking

469
00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:15,840
Speaker 1: about bringing back a mask mandate. We're seeing, you know,

470
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:20,520
Speaker 1: across the country the still uneven sense of whether the

471
00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:24,000
Speaker 1: pandemic is over most Americans, and if you look at polling,

472
00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:25,600
Speaker 1: I think this is true as well. I feel like

473
00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:27,520
Speaker 1: we're on the other side of the pandemic, but that's

474
00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:30,760
Speaker 1: not true of everyone. So will Democrats who represent a

475
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:33,760
Speaker 1: lot of those people cave on that? I feel like

476
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:37,080
Speaker 1: this is something they would be willing to trade because

477
00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:42,720
Speaker 1: you know, Biden has said the pandemic is over, particularly

478
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:47,680
Speaker 1: the vaccines, like usefulness for people in their twenties and thirties,

479
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:50,000
Speaker 1: you know, which is the and teens, which is the

480
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:54,800
Speaker 1: bulk of people in the military, is is dubious, Like

481
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:58,440
Speaker 1: it's not it's not nothing there, but they are also

482
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:02,840
Speaker 1: you know, they're a side effects that that that make

483
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:04,440
Speaker 1: it so that a lot of people at that age

484
00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:06,160
Speaker 1: at this point are like, you know, I'm not gonna,

485
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:09,320
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna. I'm not I'm not gonna. I'm not

486
00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:12,000
Speaker 1: gonna get this vaccine. And when you have the combination

487
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:19,480
Speaker 1: of UH full employment, an absolutely raging fentanyl crisis, and

488
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:23,000
Speaker 1: mass incarceration, it's you're gonna you're going to have a

489
00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:25,960
Speaker 1: hard time hitting your recruitment numbers if you throw on

490
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:29,760
Speaker 1: top of that this vaccine mandate for people who are like, look,

491
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:33,640
Speaker 1: I like the pandemic's over. I let a lot a

492
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:36,680
Speaker 1: lot of people know people who've had you know, either

493
00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:38,800
Speaker 1: have had bad reactions to vaccine or feel like they've

494
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:40,840
Speaker 1: had bad reactions to the vaccine. And so those people

495
00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:44,560
Speaker 1: like you know I I, And they also don't know

496
00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:48,200
Speaker 1: people who are twenty who have died. Now some you

497
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:51,120
Speaker 1: know some some people in their twenties have dies. Happened,

498
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:54,440
Speaker 1: It does happen. But the but the percentages are very clear,

499
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:57,680
Speaker 1: like the people who are at risk are more elderly

500
00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:01,840
Speaker 1: and A. And also say like ob serve people with

501
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:06,040
Speaker 1: other co morbidities. But if you're eligible for the military,

502
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:10,520
Speaker 1: you probably don't have as you may have one corbidity,

503
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:14,280
Speaker 1: but you likely don't have you probably don't have any

504
00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:17,400
Speaker 1: comorbidities because of the screen the health screening that is

505
00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:20,000
Speaker 1: required to get to get into the military, which then

506
00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:24,000
Speaker 1: takes your your your risk of COVID down that much more.

507
00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:27,040
Speaker 1: So that's another recruitment problem, by the ways, right, is

508
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:29,640
Speaker 1: that I forgot to mention that one something like fifty

509
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:33,960
Speaker 1: percent just on plus of eighteen year olds are basically

510
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:37,400
Speaker 1: ineligible off the bat for the military. Right. And then

511
00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:39,440
Speaker 1: you add in like you were just saying, fenterel crisis,

512
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:43,000
Speaker 1: mass incarceration, and a vaccine mandate Lindsay in full employment.

513
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:45,239
Speaker 1: So here's an interesting quote from Lindsay Graham that goes

514
00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:47,120
Speaker 1: to I think whether or not, like who's who's going

515
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:49,200
Speaker 1: to blink on this one, Lindsay Graham says, our recruiting

516
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:51,120
Speaker 1: goals are way short. The conflict in the world is

517
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:53,760
Speaker 1: getting worse, not better. We need more people in the military,

518
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:57,080
Speaker 1: not less. He is threatening to withhold his vote from

519
00:31:57,120 --> 00:32:00,160
Speaker 1: the NDAA. So again, it's one thing to add ask

520
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:02,240
Speaker 1: for it. It's another to say, listen, I'm not voting

521
00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:04,480
Speaker 1: for this, pushing it away, I'm not voting for this.

522
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:07,760
Speaker 1: Lloyd Austin then doubles down. Now it's a it's a

523
00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:10,280
Speaker 1: staring match at that point. But I think if you

524
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:14,280
Speaker 1: have Republicans pushing that hard literally saying we cannot get

525
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:16,960
Speaker 1: people into the military right now because of one of

526
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:20,480
Speaker 1: the things NBC News sites is like cultural differences. And

527
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:23,520
Speaker 1: I've heard that too, that it's a problem when you

528
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:27,360
Speaker 1: have high profile congressional testimony from people like Mark Millie

529
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:29,840
Speaker 1: who say they're interested in learning about white rage whatever

530
00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:32,480
Speaker 1: you thought of. That doesn't land particularly well with some

531
00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:34,560
Speaker 1: people that were interested in the military and who feel

532
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:37,080
Speaker 1: like it won't be a you know, militaries two woke

533
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:40,040
Speaker 1: for them, militaries too woke for them because they already

534
00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:43,320
Speaker 1: you know, don't want to deal with their HR Department alone,

535
00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:47,640
Speaker 1: this sort of culture in the military. According to the

536
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:51,920
Speaker 1: Washington Examiner, as of Saturday, the text repealing the vaccine

537
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:54,760
Speaker 1: mandate is actually currently in the legislative text of the NDAA,

538
00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:58,920
Speaker 1: So again it's the it's in the text repealing it, Yeah,

539
00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:02,240
Speaker 1: repealing it. According that's as of Saturday. So this is

540
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:03,880
Speaker 1: going to be talking of war all week, right, And

541
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:06,920
Speaker 1: I think so for Lloyd Austin, you don't get to

542
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:12,360
Speaker 1: be Secretary of Defense without being a deaf bureaucratic infighter.

543
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:16,360
Speaker 1: And what any bureaucratic infighter knows is you don't give

544
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:20,640
Speaker 1: away something for nothing. So if you hear that. You know,

545
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:25,040
Speaker 1: Lindsey Graham very much wants X, Like it would be

546
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:28,880
Speaker 1: almost irresponsible of you to say, sure have X. Say, okay,

547
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:30,720
Speaker 1: you know what, I know, I'm drawing a hard line

548
00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:32,880
Speaker 1: on this. You want X. You got to give me why.

549
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:38,360
Speaker 1: There are thousands of things that that Austin wants. They've

550
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:40,760
Speaker 1: got a Christmas list, Yeah, they've got a Christmas list.

551
00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:44,640
Speaker 1: So my suspicion is he will ultimately say, you know what, fine,

552
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:47,280
Speaker 1: this means so much to you, I'll let you have that,

553
00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:50,560
Speaker 1: let me have I have no idea what Austin wants.

554
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:54,200
Speaker 1: He a base closure, a base opened, an aircraft carrier

555
00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:58,000
Speaker 1: to be recommissioned. Who knows what on earth this guy wants,

556
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:04,040
Speaker 1: you know, related to Ukraine, related to Yemen. But I

557
00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:06,920
Speaker 1: would suspect that it'll end up being part of those

558
00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:10,360
Speaker 1: negotiations because it's hard. It's really hard to defend like

559
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:16,440
Speaker 1: the I'm trying to, like even even in his defense

560
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:18,160
Speaker 1: here in this article, he says, a million people died

561
00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:20,520
Speaker 1: in the United States of America. We lost hundreds in

562
00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:24,439
Speaker 1: DoD if a million people died in the mill, Okay,

563
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:28,800
Speaker 1: but like she's like hundreds like that, that's a tragedy,

564
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:33,960
Speaker 1: but it's it's hundreds and so it's not millions. So

565
00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:36,960
Speaker 1: even in that best argument, I think it's hard for

566
00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:40,080
Speaker 1: them to say, and you know how many of those

567
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:43,759
Speaker 1: were vaccinated? Also, we don't like it. It's not that

568
00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:47,239
Speaker 1: they were all unvaccinated. This is probably before in that

569
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:51,200
Speaker 1: in that first more in that first dead layer wave. Well, yeah,

570
00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:54,600
Speaker 1: these are all completely legitimate questions. And I think for Austin,

571
00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:57,640
Speaker 1: if Austin says, fine, Lindsey Graham, I'm not, I'm not

572
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:01,759
Speaker 1: budging on this and get Democrats to take that out

573
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:05,520
Speaker 1: really like gets support and muster support among Democrats and

574
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:08,920
Speaker 1: maybe even some Republicans to keep that in place. I

575
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:12,960
Speaker 1: think it's to how out of touch the top brass

576
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:15,200
Speaker 1: of what the military is with the people that are

577
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:18,960
Speaker 1: trying to recruit, because you're asking them to quote, follow

578
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:23,440
Speaker 1: the science, trust the science that legitimately has shifted in

579
00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:26,480
Speaker 1: front of their eyes, and that they see contrast between

580
00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:31,320
Speaker 1: what Anthony Fauci and others said at point A earlier

581
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:34,000
Speaker 1: in the pandemic and point B on vaccines. I mean,

582
00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:36,080
Speaker 1: we could talk about mass we could talk about transmissibility,

583
00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:38,280
Speaker 1: We've talk about all of those things and the shifts

584
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:40,760
Speaker 1: in what we've been hearing from quote the science capital

585
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:45,360
Speaker 1: t capital s, but on vaccines in particular, you really

586
00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:49,360
Speaker 1: cannot blame people for having no trust in the product

587
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:51,400
Speaker 1: that is being sold to them right now because it

588
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:56,920
Speaker 1: has changed, like the story has changed. And again I

589
00:35:57,040 --> 00:35:58,960
Speaker 1: get it, like I feel like both of us have

590
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:01,680
Speaker 1: been fairly support of over the last couple of years

591
00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:05,759
Speaker 1: of vaccines. But this is a real problem and it's

592
00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:09,600
Speaker 1: not going away. You can't just mandate it away because

593
00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:13,320
Speaker 1: there are so many questions remaining, right and and and

594
00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:18,000
Speaker 1: the vaccines do uh, you know, reduce the likelihood of

595
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:22,560
Speaker 1: the data does seem clear that that the vaccine does

596
00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:28,480
Speaker 1: reduce the severity of your infection? And does and age

597
00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:33,040
Speaker 1: courts cohorts, does you know, reduce the likelihood of dying

598
00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:39,920
Speaker 1: from COVID, particularly among vulnerable populations. That's that's the key. Yeah,

599
00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:42,840
Speaker 1: And that's that's that's extremely important. But if you qualify

600
00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:45,719
Speaker 1: for military participation, you are likely not in one of

601
00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:49,640
Speaker 1: those categories. You're likely younger, you're likely fitter than the

602
00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:53,720
Speaker 1: general population, And so you can understand why people wouldn't

603
00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:56,120
Speaker 1: want a dose of the m r n A when

604
00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:58,759
Speaker 1: again they were told a lot of different things about

605
00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:02,400
Speaker 1: it that I mean, really the benchmarks have changed on

606
00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:05,560
Speaker 1: some of those metrics by the admission of folks in

607
00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:09,279
Speaker 1: the industry. And you know, for Lloyd Austin to just say,

608
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:11,640
Speaker 1: you know, if you want to join the American military,

609
00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:17,239
Speaker 1: you have to comply with this mandate. Man, that's not

610
00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:20,800
Speaker 1: going to help the recruitment one bit. Well that's and

611
00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:24,480
Speaker 1: that's Lindsay Graham's whole point. Yeah, yeah, yep. So we'll

612
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:27,200
Speaker 1: follow the story for sure and bringing updates on it.

613
00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:30,000
Speaker 1: But I think an important one to pay attention to

614
00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:34,759
Speaker 1: CBS is moving to dismiss a lawsuit that alleges its

615
00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:38,840
Speaker 1: fundraiser for diabetes. A fundraiser was having for diabetes was

616
00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:43,200
Speaker 1: being funneled, the money from customers was being funneled into

617
00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:47,800
Speaker 1: a debt basically that CVS had. Now CBS's lawyers have said, quote,

618
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:50,440
Speaker 1: no good deed goes unpunished. We can put up the

619
00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:53,040
Speaker 1: element here. This is a write up in Legal news

620
00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:55,600
Speaker 1: line that really caught traction online this week. A lot

621
00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:59,200
Speaker 1: of people saw this. But again CVS has motioned to

622
00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:02,319
Speaker 1: has posted a motion to dismiss it. That was back

623
00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:04,759
Speaker 1: in October. The story itself is a couple of weeks old,

624
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:06,800
Speaker 1: but I think it was a tweet that caught people's

625
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:09,160
Speaker 1: attention and went viral. And it's funny how that happens.

626
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:12,160
Speaker 1: Ran and sometimes it just takes one tweet, something goes

627
00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:16,000
Speaker 1: up in the trade publications or industry newsletters, and you

628
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:18,000
Speaker 1: don't hear about it until someone picks up on it.

629
00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:21,839
Speaker 1: But it's kind of remarkable how much traction I saw

630
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:25,240
Speaker 1: this catch online. CBS further promised that at the conclusion

631
00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:27,719
Speaker 1: of a three year plus three plus years of fundraising,

632
00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:30,640
Speaker 1: CVS would, if necessary, make up the difference between the

633
00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:35,320
Speaker 1: cumulative customer donations and ten million dollars. Obviously, upon signing,

634
00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:38,680
Speaker 1: CBS did not assume an unconditional ten million dollar debt

635
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:43,160
Speaker 1: to the ADA, that is, the American Diabetes Association. So

636
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:46,360
Speaker 1: CVS is claiming it had no debt to the ADA,

637
00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:49,480
Speaker 1: but CBS agreed to fundraise from its customers and then

638
00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:54,080
Speaker 1: turn those donations over to the ADA. Ryan, what do

639
00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:56,360
Speaker 1: you make of this whole thing? Yeah, So, the initial

640
00:38:56,760 --> 00:38:59,759
Speaker 1: kind of viral meme basically was that CVS had a

641
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:03,759
Speaker 1: debt to the American Diabetes Association and that they were

642
00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:06,919
Speaker 1: then getting their customers to pay their debt that turned

643
00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:11,560
Speaker 1: out not to be true. They CVS created the quote

644
00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:16,239
Speaker 1: unquote debt by agreeing to raise ten million dollars for

645
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:19,919
Speaker 1: the ADA and then if if they failed over those

646
00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:22,359
Speaker 1: that three year period to raise the full ten million

647
00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:24,239
Speaker 1: from your like five or ten cents that you give

648
00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:27,320
Speaker 1: at CBS, that they would then make up the difference.

649
00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:31,640
Speaker 1: So okay, fairboyt Like that was like it was a

650
00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:37,680
Speaker 1: freak out at CBS for no reason. Now, I think

651
00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:44,040
Speaker 1: you could The reason that corporations do these things, I

652
00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:47,040
Speaker 1: think can be interrogated a little bit. It's not just

653
00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:54,600
Speaker 1: pure humanitarian gestures. Although, you know, because CBS is going

654
00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:59,040
Speaker 1: to get a tax deduction, you know, for bundling everybody's

655
00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:04,680
Speaker 1: money sending it over in that direction. But this isn't

656
00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:09,399
Speaker 1: At least this is a place where the charitable work

657
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:11,839
Speaker 1: and the business are kind of lined up because they

658
00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:16,280
Speaker 1: actually would like the Diabetes Association to succeed in reducing

659
00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:22,239
Speaker 1: the amount of UH diabetes. Actually, wait a minute, I've

660
00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:27,320
Speaker 1: just talked myself out of this sentence. Wouldn't they wouldn't

661
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:30,960
Speaker 1: they want more diabetes? Like for their business model is

662
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:33,920
Speaker 1: that they can sell more insulin. Actually, CBS took a

663
00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:36,800
Speaker 1: stand which I did not appreciate. Trying to get healthier

664
00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:39,600
Speaker 1: as a college student, I did not appreciate the stand

665
00:40:39,719 --> 00:40:43,320
Speaker 1: CBS took on selling tobacco products. But they did do that,

666
00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:47,280
Speaker 1: and that was probably a significant hit to their business

667
00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:51,600
Speaker 1: because fewer sick people right to buy there either. All

668
00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:54,520
Speaker 1: the different medicine. Yes, so good for good for them,

669
00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:57,520
Speaker 1: but I'll go back to good for them. One of

670
00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:00,440
Speaker 1: the reasons I think this caught so much tracks online

671
00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:03,480
Speaker 1: is because people are constantly being asked to do this

672
00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:05,960
Speaker 1: and are happy to round up. Not everybody does it,

673
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:07,320
Speaker 1: but I mean, I think it is really easy. A

674
00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:10,279
Speaker 1: lot of times people happy to round up. But first

675
00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:12,000
Speaker 1: of all, so that happens to a lot of people

676
00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:13,799
Speaker 1: a lot, and they want to know that that money

677
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:16,000
Speaker 1: is going to the right place because they're being asked

678
00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:17,880
Speaker 1: to make this donation with a lot without a lot

679
00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:20,160
Speaker 1: of time to like look into it, and you're just

680
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:23,480
Speaker 1: trusting that the corporation is doing the right thing with

681
00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:25,480
Speaker 1: your money and that the charity is doing the right

682
00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:27,400
Speaker 1: thing with your money as well. But when you're at

683
00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:31,560
Speaker 1: a point of sale, it's a really heavy trust relationship

684
00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:35,480
Speaker 1: and the burden of proof is in their court, like

685
00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:38,480
Speaker 1: it's in the court of the corporation and the charity,

686
00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:40,759
Speaker 1: and you just have to trust them. And so it's

687
00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:43,759
Speaker 1: because so many people have been asked to give that

688
00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:47,160
Speaker 1: trust away so many times when they potentially feel like

689
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:50,600
Speaker 1: it's been violated. It's a really big deal to people.

690
00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:52,640
Speaker 1: And again, I think this all I think this really

691
00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:57,480
Speaker 1: started with the tweet that was on December fifth. It's megaviral.

692
00:41:57,520 --> 00:42:01,040
Speaker 1: We've got seventy two thousand likes and around eighteen thousand

693
00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:03,359
Speaker 1: retweets as a time. What did you say. It's by

694
00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:07,640
Speaker 1: Emma van Inwagon. I'm probably not producing that. I'm probably

695
00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:09,920
Speaker 1: not pronouncing that correctly, but she said CBS is being

696
00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:13,320
Speaker 1: sued for asking customers to donate to the American Diabetes Association.

697
00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:15,719
Speaker 1: When they check out, those donations are in fact not

698
00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:19,000
Speaker 1: sent to the ADA, but instead reimburse CBS for a

699
00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:22,720
Speaker 1: legally binding obligation of ten million dollars that CBS promised earlier.

700
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:27,879
Speaker 1: Oh so, and then that was so that's that sort

701
00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:34,440
Speaker 1: of accurate ish, but not quite right, not quite What

702
00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:36,719
Speaker 1: I originally read from that was like there was some

703
00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:39,920
Speaker 1: judgment that they owed that it was some type of

704
00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:45,160
Speaker 1: like punishment, and they were asking customers to fill that

705
00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:47,799
Speaker 1: in And she's not exactly saying that, but she's kind

706
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:51,640
Speaker 1: of leading you in that direction. But the reason that

707
00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:54,399
Speaker 1: they have a pledge is that CBS pledged to give

708
00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:58,680
Speaker 1: to give them ten million dollars and to help fundraise

709
00:42:58,719 --> 00:43:00,640
Speaker 1: from their customers to get ten million dollars their way,

710
00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:03,600
Speaker 1: and said, look, if we fail, we'll make up the difference. Right, yeah, exactly,

711
00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:07,719
Speaker 1: that's I think that's a little bit because otherwise what

712
00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:10,439
Speaker 1: you would be left with would the CVS say, would

713
00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:12,759
Speaker 1: be CBS saying, we're going to try to raise you

714
00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:16,640
Speaker 1: ten million dollars, but don't budget for it, because if

715
00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:18,800
Speaker 1: we only raise you five million from our customers and

716
00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:20,439
Speaker 1: they don't round up as much as we think they're

717
00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:22,480
Speaker 1: going to round up, then you only get five million.

718
00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:25,920
Speaker 1: Eighty eight would much prefer to have the guarantee of

719
00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:31,680
Speaker 1: ten million dollars. So in CBS's defense, their line quote,

720
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:37,680
Speaker 1: no good deed goes unpunished is fair enough. But again,

721
00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:40,080
Speaker 1: like it is one of those things where people get

722
00:43:40,160 --> 00:43:42,239
Speaker 1: like that seventy two thousand likes on that tweet in

723
00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:44,200
Speaker 1: just a couple of days. That's a tweet from December fifth,

724
00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:46,279
Speaker 1: I should say, so, it's not even like one that's

725
00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:48,440
Speaker 1: been up for a while. Even though this lawsuit, this

726
00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:50,759
Speaker 1: motion to dismiss, I believe it was from October, and

727
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:53,440
Speaker 1: the write up itself that we're looking at here is

728
00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:58,279
Speaker 1: from a couple of weeks back. It's just a what's

729
00:43:58,280 --> 00:44:00,760
Speaker 1: the word I'm looking for? Man, It's a source spot

730
00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:05,719
Speaker 1: for people because they probably have placed their trust in

731
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:09,360
Speaker 1: these companies many times at the checkout point, so CBS.

732
00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:12,240
Speaker 1: I think that's also probably why CBS came out swinging

733
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:16,239
Speaker 1: with emotion and dismiss with things that say like no

734
00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:20,239
Speaker 1: good deed goes unpunished, because this could be very bad

735
00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:23,759
Speaker 1: for their ability to raise money in the future. Yeah. Yeah,

736
00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:28,000
Speaker 1: crazy story. Crazy how things can just strike viral gold

737
00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:32,080
Speaker 1: and make us look at trade publications articles from a

738
00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:34,520
Speaker 1: couple of weeks back and get to the bottom moment. Yeah,

739
00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:36,640
Speaker 1: and I don't read a lot of legal newsline. Somebody

740
00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:39,960
Speaker 1: was telling me like a year ago about a kind

741
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:44,560
Speaker 1: of black beauty product company that got hit on TikTok

742
00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:47,520
Speaker 1: with a claim it was like organic beauty products that

743
00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:49,759
Speaker 1: A it's like a these are not organic, and B

744
00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:53,520
Speaker 1: it's no longer black owned neither thing was true. We

745
00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:56,920
Speaker 1: went viral on TikTok like destroyed the company, right, I

746
00:44:57,000 --> 00:45:01,239
Speaker 1: mean not completely destroyed, but like absolutely the company. That's

747
00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:03,920
Speaker 1: the thing where we're having all these and just completely false. Yeah,

748
00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:06,960
Speaker 1: you have all these conversations about misinformation and disinformation, and

749
00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:08,680
Speaker 1: a lot of times we talked about this on last

750
00:45:08,719 --> 00:45:11,200
Speaker 1: week's show, like what PolitiFact is doing. I was reading

751
00:45:11,239 --> 00:45:13,880
Speaker 1: a study by two academics. They're actually out of Europe.

752
00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:15,759
Speaker 1: They looked at a lot of political fact stuff that

753
00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:20,279
Speaker 1: is just plainly uncheckable. And these are not like right

754
00:45:20,360 --> 00:45:22,279
Speaker 1: wingers by any means, but they're just looking at certain

755
00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:25,239
Speaker 1: things and saying, like, you can't have an objective fact

756
00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:28,160
Speaker 1: check of this. This percentage of claims, and it was

757
00:45:28,160 --> 00:45:30,160
Speaker 1: a lot. It came to something like forty four percent

758
00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:33,560
Speaker 1: of PolitiFact changes in the sample of like eight hundred

759
00:45:33,560 --> 00:45:37,800
Speaker 1: and fifty eight of them. And it's misinformation and disinformation. Like,

760
00:45:37,880 --> 00:45:40,800
Speaker 1: there's so much stuff that goes viral that is objectively

761
00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:44,480
Speaker 1: fact checkable. You can objectively say it's absolutely right. It

762
00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:46,720
Speaker 1: is a company still black out, Oh yeah, it's products

763
00:45:46,719 --> 00:45:48,759
Speaker 1: still organic. Well, here's the evidence that it is right,

764
00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:52,640
Speaker 1: and it's not all political but it's so damaging in

765
00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:56,640
Speaker 1: certain circumstances. So it's just a you know, a shame.

766
00:45:57,000 --> 00:45:59,680
Speaker 1: I think that we spend so much time fighting about

767
00:45:59,719 --> 00:46:02,439
Speaker 1: things that are subjective when you can look at things

768
00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:04,200
Speaker 1: and get to the bottom of them and say this

769
00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:07,840
Speaker 1: is legitimate disinformation. Yeah, nobody trusts anything that's right. And

770
00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:11,200
Speaker 1: honestly I say this, people disagree with me. It's rational.

771
00:46:12,520 --> 00:46:14,680
Speaker 1: There's a lot of lying going on out there, that's right.

772
00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:18,400
Speaker 1: Crazy story. I was going to say, we'll keep following it,

773
00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:26,319
Speaker 1: but CVS is going to win this this option. Hi,

774
00:46:26,600 --> 00:46:29,800
Speaker 1: I'm Matt Stoler, author of monopoly focused newsletter Big and

775
00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:32,600
Speaker 1: an antitrust policy analyst. I have a great segment for

776
00:46:32,640 --> 00:46:35,920
Speaker 1: you today on this Big Breakdown. Okay, So this one's

777
00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:39,279
Speaker 1: for you if you love hiking, and it's about how

778
00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:43,480
Speaker 1: a giant consulting firm named Booz Allen somehow gained a

779
00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:49,760
Speaker 1: measure of control over US national parks. All right, Okay,

780
00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:54,719
Speaker 1: So every day visitors to Vermillion Cliffs National Monument in

781
00:46:54,800 --> 00:47:01,279
Speaker 1: northern Arizona hike into an area named Coyote North to

782
00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:06,600
Speaker 1: see one of quote the most visually striking geological sandstorm

783
00:47:06,719 --> 00:47:10,279
Speaker 1: formations in the world. End quote, which is known as

784
00:47:10,360 --> 00:47:16,359
Speaker 1: the Wave. All right, here's a picture. Okay, So it's

785
00:47:16,360 --> 00:47:19,480
Speaker 1: a pretty weird place on an ancient layer of sandstone,

786
00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:23,240
Speaker 1: millions of years of water and wind erosion crafted giant cliffs,

787
00:47:23,520 --> 00:47:27,799
Speaker 1: weird canyons that look like you're on Mars, giant formations

788
00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:31,120
Speaker 1: that look like crashing waves made of rock. There are

789
00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:34,080
Speaker 1: old carvings known as petroglyphs on cliff walls, and even

790
00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:37,840
Speaker 1: dinosaur tracks that are embedded in the sentiment. So the

791
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:40,800
Speaker 1: Wave isn'tlike anywhere else on earth. It's also part of

792
00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:43,480
Speaker 1: a Nashville Park, a US National park, and thus technically

793
00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:47,160
Speaker 1: it's open to anyone to preserve its beauty. However, the

794
00:47:47,239 --> 00:47:50,319
Speaker 1: Bureau of Land Management let's just sixty four people daily

795
00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:52,960
Speaker 1: visit the area, and snagging one of these slots is

796
00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:55,399
Speaker 1: an accomplishment. A ticket into the Wave is known as

797
00:47:55,920 --> 00:47:59,040
Speaker 1: the hardest permit to get in the USA by Outside

798
00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:03,839
Speaker 1: and Backpacker Magazine. To apply requires going to a site

799
00:48:03,920 --> 00:48:07,840
Speaker 1: Recreation dot gov, which is where you manage the government

800
00:48:07,920 --> 00:48:13,040
Speaker 1: manages national parks, public cultural landmarks, public lands. You go there,

801
00:48:13,120 --> 00:48:16,160
Speaker 1: you pay nine dollars for a lottery application fee, and

802
00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:19,080
Speaker 1: if you win, you get a permit, then you pay

803
00:48:19,120 --> 00:48:23,360
Speaker 1: a recreation fee of seven dollars. The success rate for

804
00:48:23,480 --> 00:48:26,279
Speaker 1: the lottery is between four and ten percent. Some people

805
00:48:26,320 --> 00:48:29,080
Speaker 1: spend upwards of five hundred dollars before securing an actual

806
00:48:29,520 --> 00:48:35,400
Speaker 1: permit the Golden Ticket. We had to apply for a

807
00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:41,360
Speaker 1: lottery yes, for this trip, because today we're doing the waves.

808
00:48:43,440 --> 00:48:45,719
Speaker 1: But while the recreation fee of seven dollars goes to

809
00:48:45,800 --> 00:48:49,279
Speaker 1: maintaining the park, the money for the lottery application fee,

810
00:48:49,320 --> 00:48:52,960
Speaker 1: the nine dollars does not. That money instead goes to

811
00:48:53,080 --> 00:48:57,560
Speaker 1: the giant DC consulting firm Booze Allen and Company. In fact,

812
00:48:57,600 --> 00:49:01,000
Speaker 1: since twenty seventeen, more and more of America's pubs over

813
00:49:01,200 --> 00:49:03,720
Speaker 1: forty two hundred facilities and one hundred and thirteen thousand

814
00:49:03,760 --> 00:49:06,400
Speaker 1: individual sites across the country at last count, have been

815
00:49:06,480 --> 00:49:09,799
Speaker 1: added to the Recreation dot gov database and website run

816
00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:13,320
Speaker 1: by booz Allen, which in turn captures various fees that

817
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:16,840
Speaker 1: Americans pay to visit their national heritage. You can do

818
00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:19,000
Speaker 1: a lot at Recreation dot gov. You can sign up

819
00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:21,800
Speaker 1: for a pass to cut down a Christmas tree on

820
00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:25,719
Speaker 1: the on the on the Roosevelt National Forest, get permission

821
00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:28,960
Speaker 1: to do fly fishing rifle hunting or target practice at

822
00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:31,759
Speaker 1: thousands of sites, even secure a tour at the National

823
00:49:31,880 --> 00:49:34,640
Speaker 1: Archives in Washington, d C. There are dozens of lotteries

824
00:49:34,680 --> 00:49:37,359
Speaker 1: to enter for different parks and lands that are hard

825
00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:40,360
Speaker 1: to access or that require a limited number of people.

826
00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:45,359
Speaker 1: This includes you heavily visited lands like Acadian National Park,

827
00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:48,680
Speaker 1: which has four million annual visitors, Arches National Park which

828
00:49:48,719 --> 00:49:50,879
Speaker 1: is one and a half million visitors, Glacier National Park

829
00:49:50,920 --> 00:49:53,400
Speaker 1: which is three million, Rocky Mountain National Park which is

830
00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:56,560
Speaker 1: four point four million, andos might three point three million

831
00:49:56,640 --> 00:49:59,360
Speaker 1: visitors a year. Not all of those aren't lottery sites.

832
00:49:59,480 --> 00:50:02,520
Speaker 1: Those are just places where lots of people go. The

833
00:50:02,600 --> 00:50:04,839
Speaker 1: thing is is all of them are Most of them

834
00:50:05,239 --> 00:50:07,920
Speaker 1: on Recreation dot Gov come with service fees attached, and

835
00:50:08,040 --> 00:50:11,640
Speaker 1: these fees go directly to Boozelan, which built the site.

836
00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:15,000
Speaker 1: The deeper you go, the more interesting the gatekeeper. Now,

837
00:50:15,040 --> 00:50:17,680
Speaker 1: most people don't know that these service fees are going

838
00:50:17,719 --> 00:50:20,000
Speaker 1: to Boozelan. They think it's going to the park, so

839
00:50:20,080 --> 00:50:22,319
Speaker 1: they don't mind. But when you find out they get

840
00:50:22,360 --> 00:50:24,759
Speaker 1: people get really mad. So, as one angry writer found out,

841
00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:27,840
Speaker 1: waiting on hold and being transferred multiple times because this

842
00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:30,399
Speaker 1: person was trying to find out where the money went,

843
00:50:30,520 --> 00:50:34,000
Speaker 1: but also who set the fees. She found that Boozeland.

844
00:50:34,719 --> 00:50:36,719
Speaker 1: She was told after being on hold for a long time,

845
00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:41,400
Speaker 1: Boozelan actually sets the Recreation dot gov fees for themselves. Now,

846
00:50:41,480 --> 00:50:43,200
Speaker 1: there's nothing wrong with charging a fee for the use

847
00:50:43,239 --> 00:50:44,960
Speaker 1: of a national park as long as that fee is

848
00:50:45,080 --> 00:50:47,800
Speaker 1: necessary for the upkeep and is used to maintain the

849
00:50:47,880 --> 00:50:50,120
Speaker 1: public resource. And that was in fact the point of

850
00:50:50,239 --> 00:50:52,840
Speaker 1: the law passed in two thousand and four, the Federal

851
00:50:52,920 --> 00:50:56,880
Speaker 1: Lands Recreation Enhancement Act, to give permanent authority to government

852
00:50:56,920 --> 00:50:59,959
Speaker 1: agencies to charge fees for the use of public lands.

853
00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:04,160
Speaker 1: But what booz Allen is doing is different. The incentives

854
00:51:04,200 --> 00:51:08,200
Speaker 1: here are creating the same dynamics for public lands that

855
00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:11,800
Speaker 1: we see across the economy with junk fees. So, just

856
00:51:11,880 --> 00:51:14,799
Speaker 1: as airlines charged for carry on bags and hotels are

857
00:51:14,840 --> 00:51:18,200
Speaker 1: forcing people to pay resort fees, some national parks are

858
00:51:18,239 --> 00:51:21,960
Speaker 1: now requiring reservations with fees attached, when before they didn't.

859
00:51:22,880 --> 00:51:26,439
Speaker 1: As scalpers automatically grab Taylor Swift tickets from Ticketmaster using

860
00:51:26,560 --> 00:51:32,040
Speaker 1: high speed automated programs, there are now bots booking campsites. Okay,

861
00:51:32,160 --> 00:51:38,200
Speaker 1: so what is booz Allen. Okay, who are these guys? Now?

862
00:51:38,320 --> 00:51:40,360
Speaker 1: Some of you may remember it as the place the

863
00:51:40,440 --> 00:51:45,920
Speaker 1: company where controversial National Security Agency whistleblower Edward Snowden worked.

864
00:51:46,840 --> 00:51:51,440
Speaker 1: Now on their website, booz Allen lists its business as

865
00:51:51,520 --> 00:51:54,920
Speaker 1: follows quote. We bring bold thinking and a desire to

866
00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:58,040
Speaker 1: be the best in our work in consulting, analytics, digital solutions,

867
00:51:58,160 --> 00:52:01,719
Speaker 1: engineering and cyber with INDO trees ranging from defense to health,

868
00:52:01,800 --> 00:52:05,080
Speaker 1: to energy to international development. I mean that's basically like

869
00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:08,120
Speaker 1: prestige worldwide. They don't know what the hell does it

870
00:52:08,160 --> 00:52:10,520
Speaker 1: even mean. And the thing is is when you can't

871
00:52:10,520 --> 00:52:14,000
Speaker 1: identify what a company does, like we sell socks or whatever,

872
00:52:14,800 --> 00:52:16,719
Speaker 1: when they throw out lots of garbage like that, it's

873
00:52:16,800 --> 00:52:20,239
Speaker 1: usually because it does something useless or corrupt or both.

874
00:52:20,719 --> 00:52:23,480
Speaker 1: And in this case, booz Allen just operates as a

875
00:52:23,560 --> 00:52:27,800
Speaker 1: shadow government. Now Snodent was operating as a National Security

876
00:52:28,040 --> 00:52:32,280
Speaker 1: Agency employee, but was employed by Booze Allen and Recreation.

877
00:52:32,440 --> 00:52:35,520
Speaker 1: Dot gov is a government website that's supposed to handle

878
00:52:35,560 --> 00:52:39,200
Speaker 1: government lands, but it was created and has fees going

879
00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:42,680
Speaker 1: to Booze Allen. In twenty seventeen, Booze Alan got a

880
00:52:42,719 --> 00:52:44,720
Speaker 1: ten year one hundred and eighty two million dollars contract

881
00:52:45,040 --> 00:52:50,040
Speaker 1: could consolidate all booking, with thirteen different government agencies participating,

882
00:52:50,080 --> 00:52:52,920
Speaker 1: from the Bureau of Land Management to the National Oceanic

883
00:52:53,000 --> 00:52:55,320
Speaker 1: and Atmospheric Administration to the National Park Service to the

884
00:52:55,360 --> 00:52:58,560
Speaker 1: Smithsonian to the Tennessee Valley Authority to the US Forest Service,

885
00:52:58,600 --> 00:53:01,560
Speaker 1: and so on and so forth of money involved. For instance,

886
00:53:01,600 --> 00:53:04,040
Speaker 1: has one Camber noted in just one lottery to hike

887
00:53:04,120 --> 00:53:07,120
Speaker 1: Mount Whitney. More than sixteen thousand people applied and only

888
00:53:07,160 --> 00:53:09,279
Speaker 1: a third got in. Yet everyone paid the six dollar

889
00:53:09,360 --> 00:53:11,920
Speaker 1: registration fee, which means the gross income for the single

890
00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:15,320
Speaker 1: location is over one hundred thousand dollars going to Boozellan.

891
00:53:15,680 --> 00:53:17,919
Speaker 1: There's nothing criminal about this scheme, but it does hand

892
00:53:18,320 --> 00:53:21,359
Speaker 1: ticketmaster like control of our national parks, our national lands,

893
00:53:21,400 --> 00:53:25,719
Speaker 1: cultural monuments to this private firm. But that's not where

894
00:53:25,800 --> 00:53:28,799
Speaker 1: the story ends. In twenty twenty, an avid hiker named

895
00:53:28,840 --> 00:53:32,680
Speaker 1: Thomas Kotabe sued the Bureau of Land Management over the

896
00:53:32,760 --> 00:53:35,640
Speaker 1: two dollars processing fee it charges to access the mandatory

897
00:53:35,760 --> 00:53:40,760
Speaker 1: reservation system to visit Red Rock Canyon Conservation area. He claimed,

898
00:53:40,800 --> 00:53:43,960
Speaker 1: among other things, that the Federal Lands Recreation Enhancement Act

899
00:53:44,040 --> 00:53:46,560
Speaker 1: that's the law that authorizes the government to charge his fees,

900
00:53:47,040 --> 00:53:49,880
Speaker 1: mandated that this fee was unlawful because it had not

901
00:53:50,000 --> 00:53:53,359
Speaker 1: gone through the notice and comment period required by the law.

902
00:53:54,080 --> 00:53:56,319
Speaker 1: A few years later, a judge named Jennifer Dorsey, who

903
00:53:56,360 --> 00:53:58,719
Speaker 1: was appointed by Obama in twenty thirteen, agreed with him.

904
00:53:58,960 --> 00:54:01,719
Speaker 1: She looked at the statute and found that Congress authorized

905
00:54:01,719 --> 00:54:04,600
Speaker 1: the charging of recreation fees for the purpose of taking

906
00:54:04,680 --> 00:54:07,960
Speaker 1: care and using federal lands, not administrative fees that compensated

907
00:54:08,040 --> 00:54:11,680
Speaker 1: third parties. As such, Boozolan's ability to set its own

908
00:54:11,760 --> 00:54:14,960
Speaker 1: prices was inconsistent with the law mandating the public's right

909
00:54:15,040 --> 00:54:17,480
Speaker 1: to comment on what we are charged for using our

910
00:54:17,560 --> 00:54:21,000
Speaker 1: own land. The Bureau of Land Management sought to appeal,

911
00:54:21,320 --> 00:54:24,160
Speaker 1: but then drop the appeal in July. Why well, rather

912
00:54:24,280 --> 00:54:28,160
Speaker 1: than a bitter procedural argument about classifying fees, the government

913
00:54:28,239 --> 00:54:30,560
Speaker 1: in booz Allan just decided that they'll go through the

914
00:54:30,600 --> 00:54:33,280
Speaker 1: annoying process of having the public comment on booz Allan's

915
00:54:33,280 --> 00:54:36,400
Speaker 1: compensation and then ignore us using a sort of phony

916
00:54:36,520 --> 00:54:39,840
Speaker 1: process where they get fake advisors to approve things. So

917
00:54:40,040 --> 00:54:43,080
Speaker 1: here's a screenshot of one of the endless advisory committee meetings.

918
00:54:43,120 --> 00:54:45,280
Speaker 1: Where they did this. So this is the Mojave Southern

919
00:54:45,360 --> 00:54:48,640
Speaker 1: Great Basin Resource Advisory Council meeting in August simply proposing

920
00:54:48,719 --> 00:54:52,520
Speaker 1: directly to substitute new standard amenity fees quote equal to

921
00:54:52,600 --> 00:54:56,719
Speaker 1: the Associated Recreation dot CoV Reservation Service fees. This is

922
00:54:56,760 --> 00:54:59,759
Speaker 1: in response to the court loss. So one notable part

923
00:54:59,800 --> 00:55:01,759
Speaker 1: of the saga is that technically the Bureau of Land

924
00:55:01,800 --> 00:55:04,680
Speaker 1: Management and Boozeland owe refunds to everyone who went through

925
00:55:04,719 --> 00:55:07,680
Speaker 1: Red Rock Canyons timed entry system from twenty twenty to

926
00:55:07,680 --> 00:55:11,120
Speaker 1: twenty twenty two, but they'll probably ignore that and what

927
00:55:11,320 --> 00:55:14,360
Speaker 1: seems like steal the money anyway. The Federal Lands Recreation

928
00:55:14,520 --> 00:55:17,759
Speaker 1: Enhancement Act, which is the bill that Congress authorized to

929
00:55:18,080 --> 00:55:20,880
Speaker 1: allow the government to charge fees, and they put in

930
00:55:21,000 --> 00:55:24,560
Speaker 1: restrictions because they knew that government likes to charge these

931
00:55:24,600 --> 00:55:26,640
Speaker 1: fees even when they should. That's what the bill was

932
00:55:26,719 --> 00:55:31,040
Speaker 1: designed to do. Well. The authorization runs out in October

933
00:55:31,080 --> 00:55:35,360
Speaker 1: of twenty twenty three, so that's next year, and that

934
00:55:35,520 --> 00:55:38,440
Speaker 1: means that Congress has to renew it. They sort of

935
00:55:38,480 --> 00:55:41,960
Speaker 1: do this automatically, but an interesting member of Congress on

936
00:55:42,080 --> 00:55:45,480
Speaker 1: the relevant committee who likes hiking, and there are a

937
00:55:45,520 --> 00:55:49,520
Speaker 1: bunch of them could actually tighten the definitions here and

938
00:55:50,680 --> 00:55:53,240
Speaker 1: find a way to stop Booze Allen and these thirteen

939
00:55:53,280 --> 00:55:56,080
Speaker 1: government agencies from engaging in this kind of like minor

940
00:55:56,200 --> 00:56:00,120
Speaker 1: theft from junk fees. It wouldn't really be hard and

941
00:56:00,200 --> 00:56:02,239
Speaker 1: it would be kind of fun to force a bunch

942
00:56:02,280 --> 00:56:04,880
Speaker 1: of government agencies to actually do their job and actually

943
00:56:05,000 --> 00:56:07,640
Speaker 1: take over the site themselves or pay Booze Allan a

944
00:56:07,719 --> 00:56:10,880
Speaker 1: fee for its service. Another path would be the President

945
00:56:10,960 --> 00:56:13,359
Speaker 1: Joe Biden, through he's got what's called an anti junk

946
00:56:13,400 --> 00:56:16,440
Speaker 1: fee initiative, using a bunch of different regulators to say,

947
00:56:16,560 --> 00:56:19,080
Speaker 1: you know, you can't charge this fee, you can't charge

948
00:56:19,120 --> 00:56:21,200
Speaker 1: that fee. There's consumer protection laws and whatnot. In the

949
00:56:21,239 --> 00:56:24,080
Speaker 1: private sector. Well, he could just assert through what's called

950
00:56:24,120 --> 00:56:27,520
Speaker 1: the White House Competition Council, to the thirteen different agencies

951
00:56:28,920 --> 00:56:31,799
Speaker 1: that they end Booze Allen's practice of charging these kinds

952
00:56:31,800 --> 00:56:32,920
Speaker 1: of fees. I mean, if you're going to try to

953
00:56:32,920 --> 00:56:34,920
Speaker 1: stop junk fees in the private sector, might as well

954
00:56:35,120 --> 00:56:37,799
Speaker 1: get the government to stop it too. Now, I don't

955
00:56:37,800 --> 00:56:40,160
Speaker 1: want to overstate the problem. We have wonderful national parks,

956
00:56:40,840 --> 00:56:43,440
Speaker 1: and you know they're still there, and the thing is

957
00:56:43,560 --> 00:56:46,120
Speaker 1: is we can set up a website that doesn't charge

958
00:56:46,200 --> 00:56:48,160
Speaker 1: young fees. Is not that hard. But to get there,

959
00:56:48,400 --> 00:56:51,719
Speaker 1: we'll have to recognize the real problem at work, which

960
00:56:51,800 --> 00:56:54,520
Speaker 1: is not just that Boozellen got you know, this contract.

961
00:56:55,440 --> 00:56:59,359
Speaker 1: The problem is ideological. The government officials supporting Booze Allen

962
00:56:59,520 --> 00:57:02,600
Speaker 1: are doing it for a specific reason. They believe in

963
00:57:02,680 --> 00:57:05,320
Speaker 1: something called privatization, which is the idea that the private

964
00:57:05,400 --> 00:57:08,360
Speaker 1: sector can do stuff better than the government can directly.

965
00:57:08,640 --> 00:57:11,399
Speaker 1: So instead of the government building a website, they hire

966
00:57:11,600 --> 00:57:14,040
Speaker 1: a shadow government aka Booz Allen to do the same,

967
00:57:14,280 --> 00:57:16,600
Speaker 1: to do the same thing, and give that shadow government

968
00:57:16,680 --> 00:57:20,680
Speaker 1: taxing authority aka the junk fees on recreation dot gov. Now,

969
00:57:21,040 --> 00:57:23,440
Speaker 1: sometimes a private sector can do stuff better than the government.

970
00:57:23,520 --> 00:57:26,040
Speaker 1: Sometimes the government can do stuff better than the private sector.

971
00:57:26,080 --> 00:57:31,240
Speaker 1: It sort of depends. But this ideology is one where

972
00:57:31,480 --> 00:57:35,160
Speaker 1: it's always better to have private sector actors doing things.

973
00:57:35,360 --> 00:57:36,920
Speaker 1: So they think that if you have a bunch of

974
00:57:37,000 --> 00:57:40,280
Speaker 1: web developers in a government building, that's somehow worse than

975
00:57:40,360 --> 00:57:42,680
Speaker 1: having a bunch of web developers in a non government

976
00:57:42,720 --> 00:57:45,320
Speaker 1: building doing the same thing at three times the cost.

977
00:57:45,960 --> 00:57:50,360
Speaker 1: It's stupid, but this ideology is deeply entrenched So if

978
00:57:50,400 --> 00:57:53,160
Speaker 1: it seems like everything today in America is kind of

979
00:57:53,200 --> 00:57:57,200
Speaker 1: a scam, that's because increasingly it is, But of course

980
00:57:57,240 --> 00:58:00,560
Speaker 1: it doesn't have to be. Not every I mean, the

981
00:58:00,600 --> 00:58:05,280
Speaker 1: parks are still there, right, But the problem large is political.

982
00:58:05,280 --> 00:58:07,560
Speaker 1: It's that most of us don't know how our system works.

983
00:58:07,760 --> 00:58:11,840
Speaker 1: Everyone assumes that the fees on recreation dot gov go

984
00:58:12,480 --> 00:58:14,640
Speaker 1: to the national parks. I've talked to members of Congress

985
00:58:14,720 --> 00:58:17,080
Speaker 1: about this problem, who are really surprised that the fee

986
00:58:17,480 --> 00:58:19,600
Speaker 1: money on recreation dot gov is going to Boozelan. That's

987
00:58:19,640 --> 00:58:21,960
Speaker 1: not what they thought, that's not why they wrote the law.

988
00:58:22,320 --> 00:58:24,880
Speaker 1: If it seems like everything in America increasingly is a

989
00:58:24,960 --> 00:58:27,120
Speaker 1: scam with some sort of tiki tak fee or something,

990
00:58:27,400 --> 00:58:30,280
Speaker 1: that's because increasingly it is. But of course it doesn't

991
00:58:30,360 --> 00:58:33,600
Speaker 1: have to be. And the problem here is ideological, and

992
00:58:33,600 --> 00:58:36,200
Speaker 1: it's also that most of us don't really know how

993
00:58:36,280 --> 00:58:39,840
Speaker 1: the system works. So in this case, everyone assumes the

994
00:58:39,920 --> 00:58:42,480
Speaker 1: fees on recreation dot Gov go to the national parks.

995
00:58:42,720 --> 00:58:44,760
Speaker 1: I've talked to members of Congress about this problem, and

996
00:58:44,840 --> 00:58:48,560
Speaker 1: they are shocked that the fee money is going to Boozellen. Now,

997
00:58:48,640 --> 00:58:51,360
Speaker 1: once enough of us know, we can fix it, and

998
00:58:51,480 --> 00:58:55,360
Speaker 1: there are enough Thomas Katab types in America. He's the

999
00:58:55,360 --> 00:58:57,520
Speaker 1: guy who brought the suit against the two dollars fee

1000
00:58:57,560 --> 00:58:59,760
Speaker 1: to make sure of that. And we're gonna fix this.

1001
00:59:00,120 --> 00:59:04,160
Speaker 1: More broadly, We're going to roll back privatization is too

1002
00:59:04,320 --> 00:59:07,960
Speaker 1: ridiculous not to. But in the meantime we're going to

1003
00:59:08,040 --> 00:59:10,160
Speaker 1: have to pay our two dollar fees to get access

1004
00:59:10,160 --> 00:59:14,200
Speaker 1: to the national parks and that's pretty infuriating. Thanks for

1005
00:59:14,280 --> 00:59:17,840
Speaker 1: watching this Big Breakdown on the Breaking Points channel. If

1006
00:59:17,840 --> 00:59:19,600
Speaker 1: you'd like to know more about how big business and

1007
00:59:19,680 --> 00:59:22,080
Speaker 1: how our economy really works, you can sign up below

1008
00:59:22,240 --> 00:59:25,800
Speaker 1: for my market power focused newsletter Big In the description, thanks,

1009
00:59:26,160 --> 00:59:31,440
Speaker 1: have a good one. Hey, my name is Damesley. Welcome

1010
00:59:31,480 --> 00:59:33,280
Speaker 1: to another segment of fifty one to forty nine on

1011
00:59:33,360 --> 00:59:35,560
Speaker 1: Breaking Points, where we dive into different topics at the

1012
00:59:35,600 --> 00:59:39,000
Speaker 1: intersection of business, politics and society, and today we're going

1013
00:59:39,080 --> 00:59:43,480
Speaker 1: to talk about the homeless industrial complex. The homeless crisis

1014
00:59:43,560 --> 00:59:48,160
Speaker 1: in America is worsening again. The COVID pandemic caused a

1015
00:59:48,280 --> 00:59:52,040
Speaker 1: surge in housing costs and arise in unemployment, leaving nearly

1016
00:59:52,240 --> 00:59:56,560
Speaker 1: six hundred thousand Americans unhoused in twenty twenty cities across

1017
00:59:56,640 --> 00:59:59,480
Speaker 1: America are spending more than ever to combat the crisis.

1018
01:00:00,080 --> 01:00:03,280
Speaker 1: In twenty nineteen, New York spent a record breaking three

1019
01:00:03,360 --> 01:00:07,880
Speaker 1: billion dollars to support its homeless population. California is also

1020
01:00:07,960 --> 01:00:11,200
Speaker 1: expected to break its record, allocating four point eight billion

1021
01:00:11,240 --> 01:00:13,760
Speaker 1: dollars of its budget to the same issue over the

1022
01:00:13,840 --> 01:00:16,880
Speaker 1: next two years. And areas like that just don't seem

1023
01:00:16,920 --> 01:00:19,160
Speaker 1: to be getting any better, despite the fact that every

1024
01:00:19,240 --> 01:00:22,200
Speaker 1: politician claims that this is a top priority of theirs,

1025
01:00:22,520 --> 01:00:25,480
Speaker 1: and the budgets keep going up. On the contrary, twenty

1026
01:00:25,560 --> 01:00:28,880
Speaker 1: twenty saw a thirty percent increase in the unsheltered homeless

1027
01:00:29,200 --> 01:00:32,400
Speaker 1: erasing over half a decade of work since its dramatic

1028
01:00:32,520 --> 01:00:35,160
Speaker 1: rise in twenty fifteen. YEP, if you live in an

1029
01:00:35,280 --> 01:00:38,800
Speaker 1: urban area, you've probably noticed the homeless problem getting worse.

1030
01:00:38,960 --> 01:00:42,120
Speaker 1: Everybody has seen this, I think to some degree, and

1031
01:00:42,280 --> 01:00:46,640
Speaker 1: thus we have dedicated more public funding and attention towards

1032
01:00:46,720 --> 01:00:50,880
Speaker 1: solving homelessness in the US than ever before. But for

1033
01:00:51,040 --> 01:00:55,080
Speaker 1: some reason, the homeless epidemic continues to grow. Let's look

1034
01:00:55,080 --> 01:00:58,000
Speaker 1: at one example, San Francisco. This graphic is from the

1035
01:00:58,160 --> 01:01:02,080
Speaker 1: SF Department of Public Health. The budget allocated to combat

1036
01:01:02,160 --> 01:01:05,320
Speaker 1: the homeless crisis in the city has increased every year,

1037
01:01:05,880 --> 01:01:08,920
Speaker 1: but the SF homeless population has also been increasing in

1038
01:01:09,040 --> 01:01:12,360
Speaker 1: lockstep every year for the past half decade. How could

1039
01:01:12,440 --> 01:01:14,800
Speaker 1: this be? Now? There are a lot of factors that

1040
01:01:15,000 --> 01:01:18,520
Speaker 1: contribute to increased rates of homelessness in America, and today's

1041
01:01:18,520 --> 01:01:22,680
Speaker 1: segment covers only one small sliver of that discourse, one

1042
01:01:22,720 --> 01:01:26,200
Speaker 1: that I think is less often discussed because it brings

1043
01:01:26,280 --> 01:01:29,840
Speaker 1: to light the uncomfortable premise that maybe some of the

1044
01:01:29,920 --> 01:01:33,680
Speaker 1: people in charge of solving homelessness don't actually want to

1045
01:01:33,760 --> 01:01:36,880
Speaker 1: solve it at all. Turning now to the homeless crisis,

1046
01:01:36,960 --> 01:01:40,200
Speaker 1: the governor just announced almost seven hundred million dollars in

1047
01:01:40,320 --> 01:01:43,800
Speaker 1: funding to convert more apartment buildings and vacant hotels into

1048
01:01:43,880 --> 01:01:48,440
Speaker 1: housing for the homeless. No mattresses memories. Governor Gavin Newsom

1049
01:01:48,520 --> 01:01:52,240
Speaker 1: with volunteers helping set up a new Project home Key apartment.

1050
01:01:52,560 --> 01:01:55,120
Speaker 1: The space will become a home for someone living on

1051
01:01:55,200 --> 01:01:57,880
Speaker 1: the streets. Why can't we buy more buildings and get

1052
01:01:57,920 --> 01:02:01,040
Speaker 1: people off the streets today, Buildings where we can help

1053
01:02:01,040 --> 01:02:04,840
Speaker 1: people ever avoid hitting the streets. That's where Project home

1054
01:02:04,920 --> 01:02:07,960
Speaker 1: Key was born. Project home Key uses funding to convert

1055
01:02:08,040 --> 01:02:11,600
Speaker 1: buildings like this or motels and hotels into interim or

1056
01:02:11,680 --> 01:02:15,360
Speaker 1: permanent housing for the homeless seven hundred million for Project

1057
01:02:15,440 --> 01:02:18,640
Speaker 1: Home Key in California, which is a program that sprang

1058
01:02:18,800 --> 01:02:22,240
Speaker 1: from a strategy to combat homelessness called Housing First, where

1059
01:02:22,280 --> 01:02:24,800
Speaker 1: the goal is to get every person, every homeless person

1060
01:02:24,920 --> 01:02:27,880
Speaker 1: into a permanent home without any kind of pre qualifications

1061
01:02:28,040 --> 01:02:31,560
Speaker 1: like sobriety, drug treatment, or psychiatric care. Now I'm not

1062
01:02:31,600 --> 01:02:34,160
Speaker 1: an expert in social work, so I don't know what

1063
01:02:34,280 --> 01:02:37,160
Speaker 1: the most effective way is to get people off the streets.

1064
01:02:37,240 --> 01:02:40,439
Speaker 1: I do know that the causes are multifaceted. Obviously there's

1065
01:02:40,440 --> 01:02:44,080
Speaker 1: a financial component, but there's also substance abuse to consider,

1066
01:02:44,160 --> 01:02:46,840
Speaker 1: and maybe a cultural factor as well. But what I

1067
01:02:47,000 --> 01:02:50,160
Speaker 1: can comment on is that with the amount of money flowing.

1068
01:02:50,720 --> 01:02:54,080
Speaker 1: For example, in California, Governor Newsom has approved grants for

1069
01:02:54,320 --> 01:02:57,560
Speaker 1: nearly one billion dollars over the past two years, a

1070
01:02:57,680 --> 01:03:01,160
Speaker 1: billion dollars this year and another billion dollar next year

1071
01:03:01,240 --> 01:03:04,360
Speaker 1: through the States Homeless Housing Assistance and Prevention Program to

1072
01:03:04,440 --> 01:03:07,240
Speaker 1: all cities and counties in the state. That is a

1073
01:03:07,320 --> 01:03:09,320
Speaker 1: lot of money of billion dollars a year, which I

1074
01:03:09,360 --> 01:03:11,600
Speaker 1: would guess there's going to be a lot of opportunity

1075
01:03:11,680 --> 01:03:15,240
Speaker 1: for misuse. Misuse by who what am I talking about here?

1076
01:03:15,280 --> 01:03:18,680
Speaker 1: Let's take a look at the eligibility for the program. Cities, counties,

1077
01:03:18,840 --> 01:03:22,880
Speaker 1: or other local public entities, including housing authorities, were federally recognized.

1078
01:03:22,920 --> 01:03:28,840
Speaker 1: Tribal governments within California may apply independently as a development sponsor. Alternatively,

1079
01:03:29,000 --> 01:03:33,160
Speaker 1: a local public entity may apply jointly with a nonprofit

1080
01:03:33,440 --> 01:03:36,960
Speaker 1: or for profit corporation. That is important to take note of.

1081
01:03:37,080 --> 01:03:41,360
Speaker 1: The home Key program is designed as a public private partnership.

1082
01:03:41,760 --> 01:03:45,360
Speaker 1: An important truth to remember is that private sector corporations

1083
01:03:45,400 --> 01:03:49,360
Speaker 1: aren't in the business to address societal problems. They are

1084
01:03:49,400 --> 01:03:53,120
Speaker 1: in the business to maximize profits, which unfortunately is fundamentally

1085
01:03:53,720 --> 01:03:58,280
Speaker 1: I think incompatible with something like providing universal affordable housing.

1086
01:03:58,720 --> 01:04:00,520
Speaker 1: And here is an example of what happens all the

1087
01:04:00,560 --> 01:04:04,320
Speaker 1: time in public private partnerships. A real estate broker, Jim Neil,

1088
01:04:04,440 --> 01:04:07,120
Speaker 1: who was hired by the San Diego Housing Commission, bought

1089
01:04:07,560 --> 01:04:10,880
Speaker 1: forty thousand shares of stock of Chatham Lauding Trust, the

1090
01:04:11,000 --> 01:04:14,680
Speaker 1: former corporate owner of a mission value hotel, before negotiating

1091
01:04:14,960 --> 01:04:18,360
Speaker 1: a sixty seven million dollar deal for the Housing Commission

1092
01:04:18,440 --> 01:04:20,800
Speaker 1: to purchase the one hundred and ninety two unit property,

1093
01:04:21,040 --> 01:04:23,000
Speaker 1: which works out to about three hundred and forty nine

1094
01:04:23,040 --> 01:04:26,240
Speaker 1: thousand dollars per room, which is the highest per room

1095
01:04:26,320 --> 01:04:28,880
Speaker 1: cost for any hotel sold in the county last year.

1096
01:04:28,960 --> 01:04:32,800
Speaker 1: According to the San Diego Union Tribune. Neil also allegedly

1097
01:04:32,960 --> 01:04:35,920
Speaker 1: breached their broker agreement with the Housing Commission when he

1098
01:04:36,040 --> 01:04:39,880
Speaker 1: earned commissions totally over a million dollars on his deals

1099
01:04:39,880 --> 01:04:42,640
Speaker 1: with the cities last year, according to the city Attorney's office,

1100
01:04:42,680 --> 01:04:46,480
Speaker 1: and now he's being sued by the city. You say, developers, brokers,

1101
01:04:46,520 --> 01:04:50,680
Speaker 1: government bureaucrats, nonprofit executives. They all see dollar signs. They

1102
01:04:50,760 --> 01:04:55,280
Speaker 1: see this opportunity to not necessarily fix homelessness, but to

1103
01:04:55,560 --> 01:04:59,760
Speaker 1: profit from it. City leaders, including Sacramento's Mayor Darryl Steinberg.

1104
01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:02,200
Speaker 1: We are in a meeting right now with Governor Gavin

1105
01:05:02,280 --> 01:05:06,160
Speaker 1: Newsom discussing the local homeless funding he withheld until they

1106
01:05:06,200 --> 01:05:08,800
Speaker 1: came up with a better plan to address the crisis. Yeah,

1107
01:05:08,840 --> 01:05:11,920
Speaker 1: the governor said, combined, the plans would only reduce homelessness

1108
01:05:12,200 --> 01:05:15,480
Speaker 1: by two percent over the next two years. Governor Gavin

1109
01:05:15,520 --> 01:05:18,400
Speaker 1: Newsom walked into the meeting Friday afternoon hoping for cities

1110
01:05:18,480 --> 01:05:20,200
Speaker 1: to come up with a better way to address the

1111
01:05:20,240 --> 01:05:23,520
Speaker 1: state's homeless crisis. San Diego Mayor Todd Gloria said he

1112
01:05:23,680 --> 01:05:26,920
Speaker 1: welcomes a collaboration of ideas, but not like this in

1113
01:05:27,000 --> 01:05:29,080
Speaker 1: a short pause means that we have to pause our

1114
01:05:29,080 --> 01:05:31,040
Speaker 1: own efforts because we don't have the certainty of the

1115
01:05:31,080 --> 01:05:33,919
Speaker 1: funding being available. We have an expectation that the state

1116
01:05:34,480 --> 01:05:38,320
Speaker 1: make these funds permanent and ongoing. Permanent and ongoing. That's

1117
01:05:38,400 --> 01:05:40,640
Speaker 1: literally what some of these people are looking for, blank

1118
01:05:40,800 --> 01:05:46,000
Speaker 1: checks in perpetuity for a cause that's worthy, but also

1119
01:05:46,120 --> 01:05:49,640
Speaker 1: a cause they are willing to milk. Of course, since

1120
01:05:49,680 --> 01:05:52,160
Speaker 1: we heard from Todd Gloria, Mayor of San Diego, let's

1121
01:05:52,200 --> 01:05:54,960
Speaker 1: take a look at what's happening in San Diego. In September,

1122
01:05:55,080 --> 01:05:58,200
Speaker 1: the city was awarded thirty seven point seven million dollars

1123
01:05:58,240 --> 01:06:02,240
Speaker 1: from California's Homekeep program. On March twenty second, twenty twenty one,

1124
01:06:02,680 --> 01:06:06,760
Speaker 1: San Diego Mayor Todd Gloria boasted that Homeky temporarily housed

1125
01:06:06,800 --> 01:06:09,160
Speaker 1: three hundred and thirty people, which is one hundred and

1126
01:06:09,200 --> 01:06:12,840
Speaker 1: fourteen thousand dollars per person. I don't think him going

1127
01:06:12,920 --> 01:06:14,840
Speaker 1: out on much of it. Limb by saying that, I

1128
01:06:14,880 --> 01:06:16,920
Speaker 1: don't think he's spending that money very wisely, I mean

1129
01:06:17,080 --> 01:06:19,800
Speaker 1: thirty seven million bucks for three hundred and thirty people,

1130
01:06:19,840 --> 01:06:22,920
Speaker 1: which is kind of comical, right, I mean you heard

1131
01:06:22,960 --> 01:06:26,120
Speaker 1: it earlier. A billion dollars right to be doled out

1132
01:06:26,200 --> 01:06:29,479
Speaker 1: to every county and the largest cities in the state

1133
01:06:29,520 --> 01:06:32,560
Speaker 1: of California, and the current plans as submitted by the

1134
01:06:32,600 --> 01:06:37,439
Speaker 1: cities would only reduce homelessness by two percent statewide over

1135
01:06:37,640 --> 01:06:40,960
Speaker 1: four years. Even Gavin Newsom is not too happy about it.

1136
01:06:41,080 --> 01:06:44,040
Speaker 1: He temporarily halted the billion dollars in an effort to

1137
01:06:44,240 --> 01:06:47,720
Speaker 1: demand better plans from the cities and counties. But the

1138
01:06:47,840 --> 01:06:50,440
Speaker 1: problem is he's kind of thrown in his lot with

1139
01:06:50,520 --> 01:06:53,400
Speaker 1: Project Homekey. In the state of California, there's something called

1140
01:06:53,480 --> 01:06:57,480
Speaker 1: a behested payment. Basically, public officials may call individuals or

1141
01:06:57,520 --> 01:07:00,920
Speaker 1: companies with business before the state and them to donate

1142
01:07:01,000 --> 01:07:04,160
Speaker 1: to any governmental or charitable purpose, and there's no limit

1143
01:07:04,240 --> 01:07:07,360
Speaker 1: to these types of contributions. Now, it was reported that

1144
01:07:07,680 --> 01:07:10,600
Speaker 1: Newsom racked up an unprecedented two hundred and twenty six

1145
01:07:10,760 --> 01:07:14,320
Speaker 1: million dollars in behested payments in twenty twenty, mostly for

1146
01:07:14,520 --> 01:07:18,440
Speaker 1: purposes related to his administration's COVID nineteen pandemic response and messaging.

1147
01:07:18,840 --> 01:07:22,120
Speaker 1: For example, Facebook was behested out of two point one

1148
01:07:22,240 --> 01:07:24,840
Speaker 1: million dollars, which included over a million dollars of AD

1149
01:07:24,960 --> 01:07:27,320
Speaker 1: credits and six hundred and fifty thousand dollars to support

1150
01:07:27,400 --> 01:07:30,360
Speaker 1: Project home Key, an effort to buy hotels and convert

1151
01:07:30,400 --> 01:07:34,040
Speaker 1: them to housing for the homeless. Very interesting. He's got

1152
01:07:34,120 --> 01:07:36,600
Speaker 1: not only his political capital tied up at the project,

1153
01:07:36,800 --> 01:07:39,960
Speaker 1: but also financial capital as well. Right, he kind of

1154
01:07:40,040 --> 01:07:42,760
Speaker 1: has to be all in, and California is not unique.

1155
01:07:42,800 --> 01:07:46,000
Speaker 1: These types of situations. Abuses happen all over the country.

1156
01:07:46,400 --> 01:07:49,640
Speaker 1: The New York Times recently ran an expose about Jack Brown,

1157
01:07:49,720 --> 01:07:52,960
Speaker 1: a nonprofit executive who operates New York City homeless shelters,

1158
01:07:53,000 --> 01:07:55,600
Speaker 1: who has siphoned off millions from the people who he's

1159
01:07:55,600 --> 01:07:58,480
Speaker 1: supposed to be serving. Since twenty seventeen, the city has

1160
01:07:58,520 --> 01:08:01,400
Speaker 1: awarded more than three unred and fifty two million dollars

1161
01:08:01,480 --> 01:08:04,840
Speaker 1: to Core, a nonprofit run by mister Brown, to operate shelters.

1162
01:08:05,400 --> 01:08:07,960
Speaker 1: From that funding, we're talking about him taking more than

1163
01:08:08,040 --> 01:08:11,680
Speaker 1: a million dollars in salary per year. We're also talking

1164
01:08:11,720 --> 01:08:15,520
Speaker 1: about him using his nonprofit to channel contracts worth at

1165
01:08:15,640 --> 01:08:18,320
Speaker 1: least thirty two million dollars into four profit companies that

1166
01:08:18,400 --> 01:08:22,439
Speaker 1: he has a financial interest in. We're talking about millions

1167
01:08:22,479 --> 01:08:25,160
Speaker 1: more going to real estate companies in which he has

1168
01:08:25,240 --> 01:08:27,920
Speaker 1: an ownership interest in. And to top it off, he's

1169
01:08:27,920 --> 01:08:30,559
Speaker 1: also hired his family members and given employees per such

1170
01:08:30,600 --> 01:08:33,920
Speaker 1: as gym memberships and cars. You cannot convince me that

1171
01:08:34,000 --> 01:08:36,479
Speaker 1: he actually cares about any homelessness, because if he does,

1172
01:08:36,640 --> 01:08:40,519
Speaker 1: by chance, all his financial investments go poof. And that

1173
01:08:40,760 --> 01:08:42,920
Speaker 1: is the homeless industrial complex. In a night show. You

1174
01:08:43,040 --> 01:08:46,320
Speaker 1: have the politicians who are funding programs that, in theory,

1175
01:08:46,439 --> 01:08:51,360
Speaker 1: help promote solutions to a widespread problem, in this case homelessness.

1176
01:08:51,840 --> 01:08:56,080
Speaker 1: But like any other industrial complex, you also have nonprofit executives,

1177
01:08:56,160 --> 01:09:00,160
Speaker 1: real estate developers, government bureaucrats, and many others who have

1178
01:09:00,320 --> 01:09:04,400
Speaker 1: hijack the original cause and turned it into a profit machine.

1179
01:09:05,120 --> 01:09:08,200
Speaker 1: There is something called Pornell's Iron law of bureaucracy, which

1180
01:09:08,200 --> 01:09:10,960
Speaker 1: states that in any bureaucratic organization, there will be two

1181
01:09:11,080 --> 01:09:13,679
Speaker 1: kinds of people, those who work to further the actual

1182
01:09:13,720 --> 01:09:16,000
Speaker 1: goals of the organization and those who work for the

1183
01:09:16,120 --> 01:09:19,280
Speaker 1: organization itself. The Iron law states that in all cases,

1184
01:09:19,360 --> 01:09:21,600
Speaker 1: the second type of person will always gain control of

1185
01:09:21,640 --> 01:09:24,760
Speaker 1: the organization and will always right the rules under which

1186
01:09:24,800 --> 01:09:27,680
Speaker 1: the organization functions. Okay, so in this case you have

1187
01:09:28,120 --> 01:09:30,760
Speaker 1: the hard working social workers on the street trying to

1188
01:09:30,840 --> 01:09:33,639
Speaker 1: help make a difference, But you also have your Jack

1189
01:09:33,760 --> 01:09:37,439
Speaker 1: Brown's the world, the people who run the organizations, the

1190
01:09:37,640 --> 01:09:41,720
Speaker 1: people whose interests are not tied to the success of

1191
01:09:41,960 --> 01:09:44,760
Speaker 1: the organization in terms of the causes they serve, but

1192
01:09:44,960 --> 01:09:49,000
Speaker 1: rather the financial success of the organization itself. All right,

1193
01:09:49,000 --> 01:09:52,519
Speaker 1: I'm gonna end with something that is uncomfortable and potentially unpopular.

1194
01:09:52,720 --> 01:09:56,560
Speaker 1: I read somewhere that homelessness is both a result of

1195
01:09:57,040 --> 01:09:59,880
Speaker 1: and an impediment to the pursuit of economic growth. Basic

1196
01:10:00,320 --> 01:10:04,840
Speaker 1: homelessness is in our country a feature and not a bug.

1197
01:10:05,160 --> 01:10:07,439
Speaker 1: You see, you need it to exist as a stick

1198
01:10:07,560 --> 01:10:10,960
Speaker 1: to keep people working, and the lack thereof. The lack

1199
01:10:11,000 --> 01:10:13,400
Speaker 1: there of of homelessness is kind of a moral hazard

1200
01:10:13,439 --> 01:10:16,479
Speaker 1: for our economic system, And to me, that is the point.

1201
01:10:16,840 --> 01:10:21,200
Speaker 1: We either choose to have homelessness or we don't. Throwing

1202
01:10:21,479 --> 01:10:23,680
Speaker 1: billions of dollars at the problem is kind of like

1203
01:10:23,760 --> 01:10:27,400
Speaker 1: treating the symptom without fully understanding the cause. It only

1204
01:10:27,600 --> 01:10:29,920
Speaker 1: serves to enrich folks who are not in the business

1205
01:10:29,960 --> 01:10:32,439
Speaker 1: of solving the problems, but rather in the business of

1206
01:10:32,520 --> 01:10:35,639
Speaker 1: milking every ounce of profit until the well runs dry.

1207
01:10:36,240 --> 01:10:38,240
Speaker 1: That's all for me this time. I hope you enjoyed

1208
01:10:38,240 --> 01:10:42,280
Speaker 1: today's discussion about the homeless industrial complex. If you did,

1209
01:10:42,720 --> 01:10:45,040
Speaker 1: I would encourage you to check out my YouTube channel

1210
01:10:45,080 --> 01:10:47,479
Speaker 1: fifty one forty nine with James Lee. Have tons of

1211
01:10:47,560 --> 01:10:50,840
Speaker 1: videos and breakdowns on different topics, many of them like

1212
01:10:50,920 --> 01:10:53,280
Speaker 1: this one. The link will be in the description below.

1213
01:10:53,720 --> 01:10:56,720
Speaker 1: Of course, don't forget to subscribe to Breaking Points, and

1214
01:10:56,840 --> 01:10:58,120
Speaker 1: thank you so much for your time today.