1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,840 Speaker 1: We don't ever feel like we're enough. The other thing 2 00:00:02,840 --> 00:00:04,880 Speaker 1: I think that happened in my life, which is significant, 3 00:00:05,000 --> 00:00:08,280 Speaker 1: is that I joined a twelve step program eighteen years 4 00:00:08,280 --> 00:00:10,880 Speaker 1: ago to get sober, and I got a ton of 5 00:00:10,960 --> 00:00:17,400 Speaker 1: practice talking about my shortcomings, my failures, my fears. And 6 00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:22,080 Speaker 1: it's a unique experience because it was met always with understanding, 7 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:26,000 Speaker 1: no judgment, compassion, unity, and I don't know how you 8 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:36,200 Speaker 1: could get those hours of practice without betterm. Hey everyone, 9 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:39,280 Speaker 1: welcome back to this very untraditional on purpose podcast that 10 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:43,080 Speaker 1: has already been taping for maybe fifteen minutes of a 11 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:45,840 Speaker 1: very general conversation that Dax and I have been having. 12 00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:48,560 Speaker 1: And I'm so excited to be talking to you today. 13 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:51,919 Speaker 1: I can't believe it. My new book, Eight Rules of 14 00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:55,640 Speaker 1: Love is out and I cannot wait to share it 15 00:00:55,680 --> 00:00:58,480 Speaker 1: with you. I am so so excited for you to 16 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:00,720 Speaker 1: read this book, for you to listen into this book. 17 00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:03,440 Speaker 1: I read the audiobook. If you haven't got it already, 18 00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:07,039 Speaker 1: make sure you go to eight Rules of Love dot com. 19 00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:11,000 Speaker 1: It's dedicated to anyone who's trying to find, keep, or 20 00:01:11,080 --> 00:01:13,360 Speaker 1: let go of love. So if you've got friends that 21 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:16,840 Speaker 1: are dating, broken up, or struggling with love, make sure 22 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:19,360 Speaker 1: you grab this book, and I'd love to invite you 23 00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:23,040 Speaker 1: to come and see me for my global tour Love Rules. 24 00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:26,800 Speaker 1: Go to Jay Shelleytour dot com to learn more information 25 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:31,120 Speaker 1: about tickets, VIP experiences and more. I can't wait to 26 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:33,959 Speaker 1: see you this year. As you already know, our amazing 27 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:37,520 Speaker 1: guest today is none other than Dak Shepherd, actor, comedian, 28 00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:41,560 Speaker 1: writer and director, and of course, podcast host of one 29 00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:45,000 Speaker 1: of my favorite podcasts, Armchair Expert. He's known for his 30 00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:50,000 Speaker 1: appearance in films like Without a Paddles, Thora Space Adventure, 31 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:53,800 Speaker 1: Employee of the Month, and many many more, and Dak's 32 00:01:53,840 --> 00:01:59,000 Speaker 1: also portrayed Crossby Braverman in the NBC comedy drama series 33 00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:02,600 Speaker 1: Parenthood from twenty ten to twenty fifteen. He also played 34 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:06,160 Speaker 1: Luke Matthews in the Netflix show The Ranch, co starred 35 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:10,200 Speaker 1: in ABC's Bless This Mess, and acted in the MTV 36 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:13,200 Speaker 1: reality series Punk That I Grew Up On. And since 37 00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:16,680 Speaker 1: twenty eighteen, Dax has hosted the award winning podcast show 38 00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:20,840 Speaker 1: arms Your Expert, where he interviews celebrities, journalists, and academics 39 00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:24,320 Speaker 1: about the messiness of being human. If you don't already 40 00:02:24,320 --> 00:02:25,640 Speaker 1: listen to it, make sure you go and listen to 41 00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:28,480 Speaker 1: Arms your Expert, and Dax and I got into a 42 00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:32,600 Speaker 1: very random Instagram comment conversation which led to a bit 43 00:02:32,639 --> 00:02:37,400 Speaker 1: of DM which led to us connecting in this way. So, Dax, 44 00:02:37,639 --> 00:02:42,040 Speaker 1: welcome to the episode. And I'm genuinely a fan and 45 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:45,040 Speaker 1: admirer excited to connect. As I said, Kristen has been 46 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:48,160 Speaker 1: so gracious and kind to me before. It's wonderful to 47 00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:49,840 Speaker 1: connect to all the darts. Thank you for being here. 48 00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:55,080 Speaker 1: Oh it's my pleasure. That intro was exhausting. I felt 49 00:02:55,120 --> 00:03:00,320 Speaker 1: for you. I was excited by I love I love 50 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:05,000 Speaker 1: diving into people's past and experiences and kind of connecting 51 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:07,959 Speaker 1: the dots because I think it's really easy to, as 52 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:11,080 Speaker 1: you know, look at someone and think, oh, yeah, well 53 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:14,280 Speaker 1: they've always been this way or they've always out well together, 54 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:16,120 Speaker 1: and then you look at the date that someone started 55 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:18,160 Speaker 1: and you go, oh, wow, they've been doing this for 56 00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:20,480 Speaker 1: a long time, you know, And I think that that's 57 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:22,880 Speaker 1: always it's a beautiful thing. I actually think I think 58 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:26,000 Speaker 1: it's weird is for the person, you know, like when 59 00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:28,840 Speaker 1: I'm now I just had someone. An hour ago, I 60 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:31,359 Speaker 1: interviewed Mandy Moore and we got to talking about the 61 00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:33,160 Speaker 1: fact that she had been unpunked, and then we started 62 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:34,360 Speaker 1: doing the math and I was like, wow, that was 63 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:36,160 Speaker 1: eighteen years ago. I said, if we had had a 64 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:39,120 Speaker 1: child that night, we would be sending them off to college. 65 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:41,680 Speaker 1: That's kind of mind blowing. And aging is such a 66 00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 1: peculiar phenomena to begin with. And the fact that if 67 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:49,280 Speaker 1: you're an actor or whatever, you have some resume that's 68 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:52,920 Speaker 1: publicly known. It's kind of documented. The timeline. Yeah, so 69 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:54,560 Speaker 1: it's like an upside of that, which is cool, and 70 00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:57,000 Speaker 1: there's a downside to it, of course. But I have 71 00:03:57,000 --> 00:03:59,040 Speaker 1: a very good memory, but I have a very terrible 72 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:01,920 Speaker 1: memory for dates. So I can basically tell you if 73 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:05,520 Speaker 1: things happened before ninety three, from high school, four after 74 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:08,720 Speaker 1: two thousand and then maybe to my kids were born. 75 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:11,800 Speaker 1: It's probably a gap between two thousand and twenty thirteen 76 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:13,680 Speaker 1: where I don't know, it could have been anywhere in 77 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:16,760 Speaker 1: that zone. Yeah. I love hearing that. It makes me 78 00:04:16,760 --> 00:04:19,279 Speaker 1: feel a lot better because I have a friend that 79 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:21,360 Speaker 1: I connect with regularly. I went to high school with 80 00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:22,919 Speaker 1: him and we actually went to the same college, so 81 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:25,800 Speaker 1: we were together from eleven to twenty one. And he'll 82 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:27,520 Speaker 1: remind me of like, do you remember this person, I'll 83 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:30,560 Speaker 1: be like, oh my gosh, I've completely forgot, or like, 84 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:32,880 Speaker 1: do you remember we did this ridiculous thing together? And 85 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:37,320 Speaker 1: it's weird because eleven to twenty one as such formative years, 86 00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:39,839 Speaker 1: you'd think I would remember them, But those are some 87 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:43,320 Speaker 1: of the ones that I've I've completely wiped off my memory. So, 88 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:47,480 Speaker 1: and what's your theory on why that has happened? I mean, 89 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:51,719 Speaker 1: my theory is that was preceding the time that I 90 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:55,000 Speaker 1: spent living as a monk for three years. And I 91 00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:59,479 Speaker 1: really believe that a lot of my rewiring of my 92 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:04,320 Speaker 1: brain and habits during my time as a monk erased 93 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:08,320 Speaker 1: set and memories that were no longer useful in the 94 00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:11,880 Speaker 1: new identity and new mindsets that I was creating. And 95 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:16,159 Speaker 1: that wasn't conscious. It was so unconscious and unintentional. But 96 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:18,160 Speaker 1: that is the only theory I have. What about for you? 97 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:21,240 Speaker 1: Why is that ninety three and then the two twenty 98 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:24,839 Speaker 1: thirteen mark? What's your theory? Well, now I can tell 99 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:27,599 Speaker 1: you everything that happened, I just can't tell you what 100 00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:32,479 Speaker 1: years they happened, right, Okay, necessarily what predated the other thing? 101 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:34,760 Speaker 1: It's a kind of more of a chronological issue, but 102 00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:37,960 Speaker 1: I do have all the memories. Now, I'll tell you 103 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:40,600 Speaker 1: a very crazy example. So I'm driving in the car 104 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:42,560 Speaker 1: one day and I don't know why I think this. 105 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:44,440 Speaker 1: Maybe I see a billboard or something, who knows, But 106 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:46,480 Speaker 1: I just started thinking of Whoopi Goldberg and I think 107 00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:50,000 Speaker 1: I love Whoopi Goldberg. I just love her. I've always 108 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:52,320 Speaker 1: loved her. She has always seemed so certain of who 109 00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:54,200 Speaker 1: she was and blah blah. And I'm just kind of, 110 00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:57,120 Speaker 1: I don't know, ruminating on how much I like her 111 00:05:57,160 --> 00:05:59,839 Speaker 1: or admire and then I have this kind of snap 112 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:03,200 Speaker 1: shot memory of hugging her, and then I thought, well, hmm, 113 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:07,000 Speaker 1: I've never met her. I don't know how I would 114 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:08,960 Speaker 1: have hugged her. And now I've become obsessed with like 115 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:11,880 Speaker 1: is that an imagination that I had, you know? And 116 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:13,800 Speaker 1: then I'm thinking about it for so long a couple 117 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:18,039 Speaker 1: hours that eventually I put into YouTube Dak Shephard will 118 00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:20,600 Speaker 1: be Goldberg. And by god, I've been on the View 119 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:24,400 Speaker 1: three times and this is not shade to the View. 120 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:28,000 Speaker 1: I enamored with that. I think that's an incredible thing 121 00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:29,880 Speaker 1: to have gotten to do. But I just had to 122 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:33,120 Speaker 1: confront so my first thought was like, oh, that's very scary. Yeah, 123 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:34,680 Speaker 1: But anyways, I was like, all right, I was on 124 00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:36,320 Speaker 1: the View and I hugged her afterwards, and I got 125 00:06:36,360 --> 00:06:39,239 Speaker 1: to teller that I really respect her, but I wanted 126 00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:41,960 Speaker 1: to kind of figure out how that had happened. That 127 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:44,960 Speaker 1: would be inconceivable to me at twelve years old if 128 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:46,880 Speaker 1: you said, hey, you're gonna be on the show one 129 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:48,960 Speaker 1: day and you're gonna forget you're on that show. And 130 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:51,240 Speaker 1: so then I was feeling bad about myself. You know, 131 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:53,800 Speaker 1: I was getting critical. This must be some failing. But 132 00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:55,680 Speaker 1: then I just kind of thought, man, when you do 133 00:06:55,800 --> 00:06:58,160 Speaker 1: press people who aren't in show business, they don't know. 134 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:00,640 Speaker 1: Like if I go to New York to promote parenthood, 135 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:04,359 Speaker 1: my day is I started the Today's Show. Then I 136 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:06,040 Speaker 1: go to a second version of the Today's Show, I 137 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:08,720 Speaker 1: do five print media things. I end up doing The 138 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:11,280 Speaker 1: View and maybe Rachel Ray and so all these other 139 00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:14,640 Speaker 1: daytime shows, and then it goes into a nighttime talk show. 140 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:19,000 Speaker 1: I'll be on you know of you name it, Seth Myers. 141 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:21,920 Speaker 1: And if you've done that, if you've done on enough 142 00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:23,320 Speaker 1: shows and you've gone in New York to do that, 143 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:26,960 Speaker 1: you know, it's just it's a capacity issue. I have 144 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:30,720 Speaker 1: to imagine, you know, there's I'm only you know, I 145 00:07:30,760 --> 00:07:33,960 Speaker 1: have a finite memory, and you know you kind of 146 00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:37,320 Speaker 1: dump some of those appearances, I guess. But I wanted, 147 00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:39,480 Speaker 1: of course, to find something wrong with me. And now 148 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:41,960 Speaker 1: I've come to peace with just like, yeah, I know, 149 00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 1: it's not like I'm a hot shot. I'm not arrogant. 150 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:46,200 Speaker 1: I don't think I'm too cool for the view. That's 151 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:48,720 Speaker 1: not it. It's just a capacity issue. Yeah, it's a 152 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:52,520 Speaker 1: capacity issue. And and like you said, a repetition issue. 153 00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:55,600 Speaker 1: If you're doing something repeatedly, you're not going to remember 154 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:58,320 Speaker 1: it the seventh time or the time you do it. 155 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:02,000 Speaker 1: And that's key. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, because my first time 156 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:04,320 Speaker 1: on the Today's Show, I could tell you every moment 157 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:06,400 Speaker 1: of it. Yeah, you know, because if it's been recorded 158 00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:08,960 Speaker 1: and then not any of the subsequent ones, probably Yeah, 159 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:10,520 Speaker 1: that's that's a really good way of putting it. I 160 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:13,200 Speaker 1: think what's fascinating about memory, though, seeing as we've gone 161 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:17,239 Speaker 1: there now, is so many of our memories are also 162 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:20,760 Speaker 1: based on pictures that we saw of ourselves as children. 163 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:24,920 Speaker 1: So what I've realized is when you can see yourself 164 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:28,480 Speaker 1: in a memory, that's not a memory, it's a picture 165 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:31,640 Speaker 1: because your view as a memory, you would be not 166 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:35,679 Speaker 1: looking at yourself. Great way to delineate that, But I'll 167 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:38,800 Speaker 1: add to the confusion for me personally, it's like, if 168 00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:43,480 Speaker 1: I'm on Letterman, there is a monitor by the cameras, 169 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:46,240 Speaker 1: so I actually can see me on Letterman while I'm 170 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:48,679 Speaker 1: on Letterman. So then again, now for me to unravel 171 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:50,959 Speaker 1: whether I remember the appearance that I saw on TV 172 00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:53,800 Speaker 1: or my experience there, I don't know who knows. So 173 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:57,400 Speaker 1: that's the worst case of inception. There probably is. So yeah, 174 00:08:57,440 --> 00:09:00,320 Speaker 1: that sounds clea. You're also in like a mere with 175 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:04,240 Speaker 1: a mirror behind you, so yeah, yeah, it's correct. Yeah. 176 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:07,120 Speaker 1: I often get fascinated by that memory point though, that 177 00:09:07,320 --> 00:09:09,680 Speaker 1: you know, how many of those experiences that I remember 178 00:09:09,679 --> 00:09:12,640 Speaker 1: of childhood were actually me living them, or my parents 179 00:09:12,679 --> 00:09:15,560 Speaker 1: showed me video, or you know, my parents showed me 180 00:09:15,559 --> 00:09:18,680 Speaker 1: a picture of myself. And I think about that often 181 00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:22,840 Speaker 1: with how I'm someone that doesn't despite my life being 182 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:26,200 Speaker 1: on social media and certain parts documented, I'm actually not 183 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:28,719 Speaker 1: good at getting my phone out and grabbing pictures, and 184 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:30,920 Speaker 1: it's it's not a part of my daily I don't 185 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:33,520 Speaker 1: really walk around my phone out so much, and then 186 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:35,679 Speaker 1: I but I often also asked that, well, if I 187 00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:37,360 Speaker 1: had didn't, if I haven't taken a picture, do I 188 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 1: actually even remember it that well? If it wasn't like 189 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:44,720 Speaker 1: a really moving, dynamic experience. I mean, when you think 190 00:09:44,760 --> 00:09:48,719 Speaker 1: about memories, what are your like, I guess, what are 191 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:54,000 Speaker 1: your favorite some of your favorite memories personally or professionally 192 00:09:54,880 --> 00:09:58,160 Speaker 1: that stay strong that you feel are so crystal clear 193 00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:01,840 Speaker 1: that you could feel them again. I hate to admit this, 194 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:05,559 Speaker 1: but I've come to understand that the memories that support 195 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:08,960 Speaker 1: what I think my identity is. Yes, it's interesting that 196 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:11,160 Speaker 1: you even brought up the monk thing and how you 197 00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:13,720 Speaker 1: kind of lost an identity, and in order to do that, 198 00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:15,839 Speaker 1: you almost had to lose the memories, which makes sense 199 00:10:15,880 --> 00:10:17,840 Speaker 1: to me because you're like, you've lost the plot points 200 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:20,680 Speaker 1: that led to your conclusion that you were Jay Shetty 201 00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:24,760 Speaker 1: whatever they thought you were at that point. And I 202 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:29,040 Speaker 1: have been in a business where and this isn't unique 203 00:10:29,080 --> 00:10:31,360 Speaker 1: to me but a little bit. It is only because 204 00:10:31,559 --> 00:10:34,840 Speaker 1: I acted and I also wrote. I was employed as 205 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:36,800 Speaker 1: a writer as much as an actor, and then also 206 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:40,319 Speaker 1: I directed for a few years, so I was always 207 00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:42,800 Speaker 1: kind of juggling, like, oh, am I an actor? I 208 00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:45,560 Speaker 1: know I'm a writer. It's not working as an actor. 209 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:47,600 Speaker 1: I'm a writer. And then oh my god, I'm a 210 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:50,240 Speaker 1: writer director. That's what I am. And so and then 211 00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:53,280 Speaker 1: as those things either failed or succeeded, I'd have that 212 00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:56,000 Speaker 1: identity a little longer. And then all of a sudden, 213 00:10:56,040 --> 00:10:59,920 Speaker 1: I was a podcaster, and now I'm considering an identity. 214 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:02,600 Speaker 1: Now of course it's all work related, but now my 215 00:11:02,679 --> 00:11:06,760 Speaker 1: identity is like me weirdly, you know, I have a show, 216 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:10,960 Speaker 1: I have a podcast where it's just me, And as 217 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:14,000 Speaker 1: I do that longer, I'm kind of less interested in 218 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:16,880 Speaker 1: all the other identities I had. And then, of course 219 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:20,640 Speaker 1: the crowning jewel of identities for me is a father. 220 00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:23,920 Speaker 1: So this Sunday it will be nine years that I'm 221 00:11:23,920 --> 00:11:26,760 Speaker 1: a dad. And then that kind of just overtook all 222 00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:32,760 Speaker 1: the other ones gracefully and thankfully, where that one feels 223 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:38,840 Speaker 1: like bedrock, you know, that feels like son or sibling whatever, 224 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:44,200 Speaker 1: And I had no clue how much I needed that, yeah, 225 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:46,720 Speaker 1: because I wasn't willing to go be a monk for 226 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:49,040 Speaker 1: three years if find out who I actually was without 227 00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:51,520 Speaker 1: any of these connections. So yeah, it was just a 228 00:11:51,520 --> 00:11:54,160 Speaker 1: great relief to have something that I would define myself 229 00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:58,960 Speaker 1: around other than work, which is fickle and good and 230 00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:02,199 Speaker 1: bad and all as many things. But so for memories, 231 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:06,600 Speaker 1: I'm probably inclined to tell you all the steps that 232 00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:09,760 Speaker 1: led to me getting on punked, or all the steps 233 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:12,840 Speaker 1: that led to me being a class clown or you know, 234 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:17,079 Speaker 1: and then even weirder than all this, because we also 235 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:20,679 Speaker 1: touched on your life making sense now at this point, 236 00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:23,800 Speaker 1: I had the ultimate moment of that while hosting top Gear, 237 00:12:23,840 --> 00:12:26,520 Speaker 1: which I've done for the last two years, where my 238 00:12:26,559 --> 00:12:29,240 Speaker 1: other side hustle, it was always motorsports. That's all I 239 00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:30,800 Speaker 1: really ever wanted. I just if I could have been 240 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:33,760 Speaker 1: a race car driver without him in it. So I've 241 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:38,200 Speaker 1: spent all this time at racetracks and racing and riding 242 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:40,640 Speaker 1: motorcycles and doing all this stuff, and there was just 243 00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:44,680 Speaker 1: a moment shooting one particular episode of top Gear where 244 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:48,640 Speaker 1: I drifted this Dodge Hellcat around a dirt oval track 245 00:12:48,679 --> 00:12:53,160 Speaker 1: in Arizona all day long, dead sideways. It was a blast, 246 00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:57,560 Speaker 1: and I left and I thought, my god, it all 247 00:12:57,600 --> 00:13:01,640 Speaker 1: makes sense. Like I went into rov. The show's not scripted. 248 00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:04,000 Speaker 1: I was all I want to do is drive fast 249 00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:07,040 Speaker 1: and crazy and I wanted to be in camera, and 250 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:11,000 Speaker 1: by god, now at this vantage point then forty six, 251 00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:12,800 Speaker 1: I was like, oh, it all makes sense, but certainly 252 00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:16,360 Speaker 1: it never made sense in route to there. That was 253 00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:18,360 Speaker 1: a long answer. That was a great I mean that's 254 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:20,480 Speaker 1: what podcasts afore, right, so that that was a great 255 00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:24,360 Speaker 1: Yeah exactly, Yeah, No, I find that fascinating too. And 256 00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:29,200 Speaker 1: what I really appreciated where you started off, and it 257 00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:32,400 Speaker 1: was actually very reassuring for me, which I appreciated, was 258 00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:35,080 Speaker 1: I kind of went that too. I went through being 259 00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:39,200 Speaker 1: a student and a South Asian person in England who 260 00:13:39,559 --> 00:13:42,960 Speaker 1: had certain aspirations to then living as a monk, and 261 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:45,760 Speaker 1: then to leave being a monk, which has a very 262 00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:50,520 Speaker 1: clear identity shift, and then being like, well I'm a monk, 263 00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:53,360 Speaker 1: and then I went back into the world of corporate 264 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:58,079 Speaker 1: to pay the bills and survive, and in management, and 265 00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:02,280 Speaker 1: then now in media where we do so much in media, 266 00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:05,000 Speaker 1: and it's almost like I feel like for a long 267 00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:07,280 Speaker 1: time I was juggling those two is like, well I'm 268 00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:09,640 Speaker 1: married now too, and they all seem to be ms 269 00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:12,440 Speaker 1: as well, like married, monk, media management, and I go 270 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:14,880 Speaker 1: you know which one happen, and it was the same 271 00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:18,959 Speaker 1: thing as you said that I really feel now I'm 272 00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:21,800 Speaker 1: at a point where I've just accepted that I really 273 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:28,840 Speaker 1: enjoyed the paradoxical experience of my life, and I appreciate 274 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:33,440 Speaker 1: and acknowledge each part of those experiences equally. I'm really 275 00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:35,560 Speaker 1: grateful that I got to have my time in the 276 00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:38,640 Speaker 1: monastery and what I learned from there, which is foundational 277 00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:41,000 Speaker 1: to the work I do today. But at the same time, 278 00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:42,560 Speaker 1: I love the fact that now I'm in media and 279 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:44,960 Speaker 1: I get to apply it in a completely different direction. 280 00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:48,400 Speaker 1: And I love being married. I really enjoyed the learning 281 00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:51,320 Speaker 1: process of what that looks like. And then the management 282 00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:54,160 Speaker 1: part has been so useful from a professional standpoint. And 283 00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:56,080 Speaker 1: it's like you said, you get to being you, And 284 00:14:56,640 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 1: I guess my question is like, how long did it 285 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:03,240 Speaker 1: take you or what was some of the inner workings 286 00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:07,880 Speaker 1: of learning to accept and give yourself the permission to 287 00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:10,400 Speaker 1: be all of them, none of them, some of them, 288 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:12,840 Speaker 1: a part of them. Because I still feel we live 289 00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:15,600 Speaker 1: in an industry where, or not even in an industry, 290 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:16,960 Speaker 1: we live in a world where it's like, well, what 291 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:19,920 Speaker 1: do you do? And it's your job title, and I 292 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:22,800 Speaker 1: was saying I was saying to my patam day to day. 293 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:24,280 Speaker 1: I was like, I would be so much happier if 294 00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:26,560 Speaker 1: they just put my mission as my lower third and 295 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:30,280 Speaker 1: not my title, because my title doesn't really say much 296 00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:33,640 Speaker 1: about who I really am, And so does that make sense? 297 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:37,720 Speaker 1: It does? And in fact, I'm always a little curious 298 00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:41,600 Speaker 1: how embracing people are of a title that they also 299 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:45,640 Speaker 1: know millions of other people have as a title. So 300 00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:48,440 Speaker 1: what does it now? Granted I just said I'm a father, 301 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:50,360 Speaker 1: which is you know whatever, a third of the country. 302 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:53,560 Speaker 1: But I'll give you the one that is a pet 303 00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:56,120 Speaker 1: peeve of mine is like people on their social media, 304 00:15:56,160 --> 00:16:01,200 Speaker 1: it'll say liberal or conservative, Democrat or Republican? Am I? 305 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:04,680 Speaker 1: I guess I'm just I'm too insatiably in search of 306 00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:07,200 Speaker 1: being unique for that to be satisfying for me. Like, 307 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:09,800 Speaker 1: what could it say about me? If all I've done 308 00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:14,000 Speaker 1: is is carved three hundred million people into two groups, 309 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:16,960 Speaker 1: it'd be no different than writing mail, Like who am 310 00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:20,400 Speaker 1: I I'm mail? What does that mean? You know anything? 311 00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:23,000 Speaker 1: Where half of the country can fit into it. I 312 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:26,120 Speaker 1: don't know why that's of interest in describing yourself, but 313 00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:32,440 Speaker 1: me embracing me. I through insecurity, of course, but but 314 00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:36,840 Speaker 1: through insecurity, I chose a very specific route through junior 315 00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:39,720 Speaker 1: high high school, which was I'm punk rock, I'm a skateboarder, 316 00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:43,160 Speaker 1: I'm a snowboarder, I'm punk rock. Well and again stemming 317 00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:45,120 Speaker 1: from insecurity, which is I couldn't. I didn't think I 318 00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:46,800 Speaker 1: could pull off the other thing. Like I was looking 319 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:49,040 Speaker 1: at everyone in there. They didn't have Coloux, they could 320 00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:51,760 Speaker 1: have this perfect middle part. I couldn't do it. Their 321 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:54,640 Speaker 1: parents could afford Jordan's mind couldn't. So I couldn't do that. 322 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:58,200 Speaker 1: And this was a kind of a weird I know 323 00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:00,560 Speaker 1: what it read as it reads this confidence, which is 324 00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:04,240 Speaker 1: great because I actually kind of backed myself into being confident. 325 00:17:04,359 --> 00:17:08,359 Speaker 1: So I was, you know, mohawk crazy clothes, combat boots 326 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:10,719 Speaker 1: because I wanted to send a message like I'm not 327 00:17:10,840 --> 00:17:14,560 Speaker 1: playing that game, so you can't evaluate me by those rules. 328 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:17,840 Speaker 1: That was what the insecurity part was. And then I 329 00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:23,080 Speaker 1: got like positive reinforcement for that, and that kind of 330 00:17:23,840 --> 00:17:26,040 Speaker 1: you know, that's remained a little bit in me that 331 00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:29,280 Speaker 1: when I wrote it didn't take me any time to 332 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:31,480 Speaker 1: find my voice. I just I wrote as if no 333 00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:32,800 Speaker 1: one was ever going to read it, and if they 334 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:34,640 Speaker 1: did read it and didn't like it, I didn't care. 335 00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:38,000 Speaker 1: Acting was different because I certainly was like I had heroes. 336 00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:41,080 Speaker 1: I wanted to be Bill Murray or Chevy Chase or 337 00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:44,320 Speaker 1: Will Ferrell of that took a minute. And that's an 338 00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:47,000 Speaker 1: interesting story in itself. Is I happened to do a 339 00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:51,080 Speaker 1: movie that was entirely improvd just before I got cast 340 00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:55,639 Speaker 1: on Parenthood, so I couldn't have done a character. Maybe 341 00:17:55,640 --> 00:17:57,920 Speaker 1: other people could have. I couldn't have done a character 342 00:17:58,119 --> 00:18:03,400 Speaker 1: and have improvs. Since serily an entire movie. I just thought, 343 00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:05,160 Speaker 1: I got I'm just gonna have to be as close 344 00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:07,240 Speaker 1: to myself as I can so that I can speak 345 00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:10,320 Speaker 1: of my own voice in improv. And that was a 346 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:13,080 Speaker 1: kind of breakthrough for me because I watched it and 347 00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:14,920 Speaker 1: I was really kind of happy with it, and other 348 00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:16,880 Speaker 1: people thought it was really good, and it's what made 349 00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:20,199 Speaker 1: me then go, I'm enough. I don't have to have 350 00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:22,200 Speaker 1: an accent. I don't have to have this. I don't 351 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:25,159 Speaker 1: have to I'm enough, which is a hard thing to 352 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:27,760 Speaker 1: get to. I remember reading I quote this all the 353 00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:30,520 Speaker 1: time on my show, which is I was reading an 354 00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:32,800 Speaker 1: interview with Nicholas Cage, who I was obsessed with as 355 00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:34,680 Speaker 1: a kid. He was my actor, That's who I would 356 00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:37,439 Speaker 1: want to be. He was nuts, and he said it 357 00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:40,120 Speaker 1: was not until he did the movie Face Off and 358 00:18:40,280 --> 00:18:43,480 Speaker 1: he in travoled to swap faces so inevitably they had 359 00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:45,560 Speaker 1: to do impersonations of each other. And he said he 360 00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:47,879 Speaker 1: didn't know until he watched John travol To do an 361 00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:51,359 Speaker 1: impersonation of him that he actually was unique enough to 362 00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:55,719 Speaker 1: even impersonate. And I thought, how could Nicholas Cage, one 363 00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:58,560 Speaker 1: of the most unique performers, have not known that until 364 00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:02,840 Speaker 1: he witnessed that, And so it can happen to people, right, 365 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:06,520 Speaker 1: we don't ever feel like we're enough. And then the 366 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:08,400 Speaker 1: other thing I think that happened in my life, which 367 00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:11,920 Speaker 1: is significant, is that I joined a twelve step program 368 00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:15,280 Speaker 1: eighteen years ago to get sober, and I got a 369 00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:22,480 Speaker 1: ton of practice talking about my shortcomings, my failures, my fears. 370 00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:27,840 Speaker 1: And it's a unique experience because it was met always 371 00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:34,040 Speaker 1: with understanding, no judgment, compassion, unity, And I don't know 372 00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:38,320 Speaker 1: how you could get those hours of practice without that. 373 00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:41,480 Speaker 1: I'm just not sure. So I think that program helped 374 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:46,320 Speaker 1: me just be me and not be terribly worried about it. Yeah, yeah, no, 375 00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:48,720 Speaker 1: I agree with you. I don't think there's a substitute 376 00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:52,480 Speaker 1: for that practice that can. I ask you a question, Yeah, 377 00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:55,879 Speaker 1: are you just a romantic? Because at first I think 378 00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:58,120 Speaker 1: the commitment to go be a month for three years 379 00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:02,040 Speaker 1: is insane. I loved worldly pleasures. I wanted to make 380 00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:05,360 Speaker 1: love to everyone. I wanted to drive fast cars and 381 00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:10,320 Speaker 1: have people give me approval. So at first glance, it 382 00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:13,080 Speaker 1: would be an impossible endeavor for me. I just kind 383 00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:15,240 Speaker 1: of do and I assumed too. There's a hierarchy and 384 00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:16,840 Speaker 1: people tell you what to do. I would hate that, 385 00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:19,560 Speaker 1: but there's also a part of me that would have 386 00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:23,720 Speaker 1: a romantic fantasy about what it would have been and 387 00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:27,879 Speaker 1: that it would have been a bold in historic decision, 388 00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:30,040 Speaker 1: Like I had that type of ego where I would 389 00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:32,360 Speaker 1: have liked, I'm going to do something no one would do. 390 00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:36,359 Speaker 1: So what on earth got you to leave the worldly 391 00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:39,280 Speaker 1: world and be willing to do that? Yeah? No, thank 392 00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:41,679 Speaker 1: you for that question. I think for me, if I 393 00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:43,600 Speaker 1: if I'm honest about it at the time, and it's 394 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:45,840 Speaker 1: something you actually touched on a couple of seconds ago, 395 00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:49,639 Speaker 1: which we haven't dived into yet, but it was I 396 00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:52,600 Speaker 1: was at the same and same as you. I resonate 397 00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:57,040 Speaker 1: with that. I loved approval, validation, I had lots of girlfriends, 398 00:20:57,160 --> 00:20:59,400 Speaker 1: I was you know, all the rest of it. I've 399 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:01,639 Speaker 1: borne a raise in London, so lived a very normal 400 00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:05,000 Speaker 1: life and I the only thing that was fascinating to 401 00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:07,360 Speaker 1: me at the time was rags to Richest stories. So 402 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:10,320 Speaker 1: my dad had started giving me biographies because he was 403 00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:14,159 Speaker 1: scared I wasn't reading because I never liked fiction growing up. 404 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:18,040 Speaker 1: I've I love nonfiction. I've never been a huge fiction fan. 405 00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:20,680 Speaker 1: And my dad was the person who kind of either 406 00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:22,399 Speaker 1: he knew that or didn't know that, but he started 407 00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:26,320 Speaker 1: giving me biographies of famous people, autobiographies of people, and 408 00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:28,679 Speaker 1: so I read like Gandhi and Martin Luther King and 409 00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:31,439 Speaker 1: Malcolm X. And this was all in my teens, and 410 00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:34,119 Speaker 1: so I was fascinated by people who shifted culture or 411 00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:37,280 Speaker 1: made differences in the world. But I was also fascinated 412 00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:41,520 Speaker 1: by money and CEOs and entrepreneurs and athletes and actors. 413 00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:44,280 Speaker 1: And so I would go and this is before podcasting 414 00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:47,040 Speaker 1: and YouTube. So I would go to my college and 415 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:51,280 Speaker 1: here speakers who were invited to talk about their careers 416 00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:53,480 Speaker 1: or their journeys, so you'd go to a physical event, 417 00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:57,280 Speaker 1: sit in the audience and listen. And I met at 418 00:21:57,320 --> 00:21:59,359 Speaker 1: that time so many different people. And one of the 419 00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:02,080 Speaker 1: person that I heard speak was the monk that I 420 00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:04,920 Speaker 1: ended up writing about my book, and his name's Gonadas, 421 00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:07,840 Speaker 1: and I ended up spending time with him. And here's 422 00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:10,240 Speaker 1: the thing, Decks, that it was like at that age 423 00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:12,480 Speaker 1: in my life. I was eighteen years old. I'd met 424 00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:14,800 Speaker 1: people who were rich, I'd met people who were famous. 425 00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:18,320 Speaker 1: I'd heard people who were successful and beautiful and attractive, 426 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:21,480 Speaker 1: but I don't think i'd met anyone who was truly 427 00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:26,359 Speaker 1: happy and content. Now whatever that meant at age eighteen, right, Like, 428 00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:28,800 Speaker 1: not that I knew what that even meant, but at 429 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:31,680 Speaker 1: least at that age, and from him, I felt a 430 00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:34,600 Speaker 1: sense of And by the way, there was nothing externally 431 00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:37,879 Speaker 1: attractive about this man. He was Indian, he had a 432 00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:41,800 Speaker 1: thick Indian accent, he was wearing robes. But I was 433 00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:46,040 Speaker 1: so attracted to him, and I was like, what is it? 434 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:47,800 Speaker 1: Why am I attracted to this guy? And I didn't 435 00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:49,199 Speaker 1: even want to go. I mean, I don't know how 436 00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:51,720 Speaker 1: much you know the story, but I've told this often. 437 00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:54,480 Speaker 1: I told my friends who invited me to the event, 438 00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:56,280 Speaker 1: that I would only go if we went to a 439 00:22:56,359 --> 00:23:01,840 Speaker 1: bar afterwards, because I was just uninterested in monks or spirituality. 440 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:03,960 Speaker 1: And so I want you said content man. I was 441 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:06,640 Speaker 1: not in search of contentment. Neither was I. I want 442 00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:09,479 Speaker 1: to gay us, and neither was I. I was a rebel. 443 00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:11,240 Speaker 1: I'd been, you know, just to give you a bit 444 00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:13,720 Speaker 1: of a background, I was. I'd been suspended from school 445 00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:17,239 Speaker 1: three times. I was a rebel. I was involved in 446 00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:20,280 Speaker 1: all sorts of the wrong circles. And here I am 447 00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:23,800 Speaker 1: randomly at a monk, talking and thinking this is going 448 00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:25,920 Speaker 1: to be the biggest waste of time. But I felt 449 00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:27,800 Speaker 1: an attraction, and I said to him, I asked one 450 00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:30,440 Speaker 1: really quick question too. Of course, I don't know what 451 00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:33,280 Speaker 1: the they say for lack of it, I don't know 452 00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:36,560 Speaker 1: exactly Are you Indian or I am Indian? Yes, yes, India, Okay. 453 00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:40,040 Speaker 1: I don't know what the second or third generation Indian 454 00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:44,120 Speaker 1: experience is in London. I only know somewhat what it's 455 00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:48,000 Speaker 1: like here in the States from Monica, of course, of course, yeah, 456 00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:50,960 Speaker 1: I guess my first thought is were you running from 457 00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:54,720 Speaker 1: or embracing your ethnicity? At that age, I would say 458 00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:58,439 Speaker 1: that London. I feel that the South Asian community or 459 00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:02,439 Speaker 1: Indian community in London is not that my parents had this, 460 00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:04,919 Speaker 1: but by the time I was there, it's more embraced 461 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:08,439 Speaker 1: into culture. So I would say in my primary school, 462 00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:11,720 Speaker 1: elementary school, I was bullied for being Indian, but then 463 00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:13,840 Speaker 1: by the time I was in high school, I was 464 00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:17,320 Speaker 1: surrounded by Indians and so that was kind of like 465 00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:19,240 Speaker 1: my experience where I would I would say I was 466 00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:23,240 Speaker 1: pretty neutral. We weren't doing either because you were kind 467 00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:25,320 Speaker 1: of embraced but kind of bullied. It was kind of 468 00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:28,080 Speaker 1: in between. That makes sense because I'm just imagining how 469 00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:31,960 Speaker 1: that speaker come to Monica's College University of Georgia's. She 470 00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:34,359 Speaker 1: would have run for the first she would have been like, 471 00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:37,119 Speaker 1: don't I don't want anyone to connect my otherness with 472 00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:39,639 Speaker 1: this person's otherness. Yeah, that wasn't at play, Okay, I 473 00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:41,120 Speaker 1: was just curious about Yeah, no, no, it's a good 474 00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:43,560 Speaker 1: question anyway. But yeah, that was the reason that I 475 00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:46,240 Speaker 1: would say that it was as simple as like what 476 00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:49,439 Speaker 1: you were saying about race car driving or Will Ferrell 477 00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:51,320 Speaker 1: and I want to dive into that idea. It was 478 00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:54,479 Speaker 1: as simple as this person at this point in my 479 00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:58,959 Speaker 1: life is the most inspirational person I've met, and I 480 00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:00,879 Speaker 1: want to know how they there. So I'm going to 481 00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:03,600 Speaker 1: study their life. I'm going to spend time with them 482 00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:06,520 Speaker 1: if I have the opportunity. And after doing that for 483 00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:10,920 Speaker 1: three years where I would spend my vacations and Christmas 484 00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:14,480 Speaker 1: Holidays with him in India and spending time within, I 485 00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:16,439 Speaker 1: was just like, this is what I want to do 486 00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:18,600 Speaker 1: with my life. So and then I went and actually 487 00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:21,080 Speaker 1: lived as Among for three years. So it was study, 488 00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:24,000 Speaker 1: it was research, it was intrigue, it was curiosity, and 489 00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:26,840 Speaker 1: it wasn't you feel like he had a magic he 490 00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:29,400 Speaker 1: still does to this day, Like yeah, he's he's still Among, 491 00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:32,440 Speaker 1: He's amazing and he's he still has a magic about him, 492 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:35,560 Speaker 1: which which hasn't worn off for me for sure, because 493 00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:38,520 Speaker 1: it's interesting because there can even be within something as 494 00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:44,439 Speaker 1: a stew or as simplistic, there can still be some 495 00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:48,760 Speaker 1: aggrandize man like uh, I want more? Right, So I 496 00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:51,040 Speaker 1: think all the things you listed that you were previously 497 00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:53,840 Speaker 1: interested in is similar to me, like I want more. 498 00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:56,520 Speaker 1: I've had this experience. I want I want, I really 499 00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:59,600 Speaker 1: want it all. Like whatever the is an option on 500 00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:02,520 Speaker 1: this through planet Earth. I want to experience it, so 501 00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:05,640 Speaker 1: I can imagine if I thought like, oh my god, 502 00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:09,959 Speaker 1: this person has magic. Yeah, you know, I remember hearing 503 00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:13,880 Speaker 1: crazy stories. I'm sure they were just stereotypical what would 504 00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:18,440 Speaker 1: you call them, like Arcadian fantasy archetypes of spiritual people 505 00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:20,520 Speaker 1: where it's like, oh, they can soar with an eagle, 506 00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:23,000 Speaker 1: and when I will let myself imagine, like I'd dedicate 507 00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:26,359 Speaker 1: myself to something if I could embody an eagle emply around. 508 00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:30,080 Speaker 1: You know, I'm bummed there's no hot women and really 509 00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:32,879 Speaker 1: cool cars on the scene, but I might trade that 510 00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:37,680 Speaker 1: off to be able to transcend this body. Yeah. Absolutely, 511 00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:39,480 Speaker 1: And that's what I think it was right. It was 512 00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:44,200 Speaker 1: the I was so deeply in all of someone's presence 513 00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:46,240 Speaker 1: and energy and I didn't even know what those words 514 00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:48,680 Speaker 1: meant at that time, but it was such a deep 515 00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:52,919 Speaker 1: attraction that my attraction for other things was dimmed in 516 00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:55,720 Speaker 1: the light of that. And that's what I realized that 517 00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:59,080 Speaker 1: it's not that those other attractions just disappeared, it's just 518 00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:01,520 Speaker 1: that they would dim or in light of that attraction. 519 00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:04,240 Speaker 1: I guess with you, what were you referring to then 520 00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:06,600 Speaker 1: when you were talking about like having people you look 521 00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:08,560 Speaker 1: up to or when you mentioned set of names, and 522 00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:10,879 Speaker 1: I think there was something in there around that idea 523 00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:14,320 Speaker 1: that we all have of wanting more but also seeing 524 00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:16,880 Speaker 1: more in others. Was that where were you going with 525 00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:20,480 Speaker 1: that thought? Well, there's a bunch of them. So like then, 526 00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:23,400 Speaker 1: they're always if you really look at it, they're probably 527 00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:30,840 Speaker 1: always linked to insecurities of mine and or some pride 528 00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:34,480 Speaker 1: in something I think I have. So with Nicolas Cage, 529 00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:36,280 Speaker 1: I think I was so drawn to him as an 530 00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:39,560 Speaker 1: actor because I was like, this guy, is he's fine looking? 531 00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:42,520 Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying. He's not. He's not gorgeous, 532 00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:45,840 Speaker 1: he's not unattractive, he's just fine. I think he's getting 533 00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:48,840 Speaker 1: by because he's tall, and so I thought maybe I 534 00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:52,280 Speaker 1: could do that too. I was not the cutest kid 535 00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:54,359 Speaker 1: in my school ever. I wasn't, you know, but I 536 00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:57,040 Speaker 1: was tall. That kind of worked enough. And he was 537 00:27:57,080 --> 00:28:00,439 Speaker 1: certainly nuts like he was just he would make crazy 538 00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:03,600 Speaker 1: choices in movies. He'd do crazy characters, and I thought, Okay, 539 00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:08,800 Speaker 1: that seems achievable for what I'm working with. And then 540 00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:12,560 Speaker 1: like an aspirational front, you had like Bill Murray, who 541 00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:16,399 Speaker 1: I don't think there's ever been a performer I've seen 542 00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:20,919 Speaker 1: that is as comfortable in their skin as Bill Murray is, 543 00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:24,320 Speaker 1: like whatever you felt about the person you studied with. 544 00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:27,080 Speaker 1: I look at him and I was like, mot I 545 00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:30,120 Speaker 1: still do, And I think, God, if I could feel 546 00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:33,240 Speaker 1: as comfortable in my body as he seems to, that 547 00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:37,439 Speaker 1: must be you know, elating experience. Yea. And so he 548 00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:39,840 Speaker 1: was maybe more aspirational. And then Will Farrell was more 549 00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:42,760 Speaker 1: just like the greedy pig in me, like, oh, this 550 00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:46,760 Speaker 1: guy dominates. You can't hold a candle if you're in 551 00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:48,680 Speaker 1: a scene with him, you might as well close your 552 00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:50,760 Speaker 1: eyes the whole time. No one's gonna look at you. 553 00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:52,400 Speaker 1: You know, you don't even need to be in your wardrobe. 554 00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:56,719 Speaker 1: He's just so dominant and hysterical. And then in winning 555 00:28:57,240 --> 00:29:00,360 Speaker 1: every movie's opening number one, I know what he's getting paid, 556 00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:02,360 Speaker 1: you know. So all that like greedy pig side of 557 00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:05,080 Speaker 1: me was attracted to maybe his status, that's maybe a 558 00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:07,800 Speaker 1: great way to say it. Both a total admiration for 559 00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:10,760 Speaker 1: a skill level which I don't even possess, but I 560 00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:13,480 Speaker 1: think the status appealed to me, like, oh, that would 561 00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:15,840 Speaker 1: be it if you could walk into a studio and go, 562 00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:18,120 Speaker 1: hey man, I don't know to tell you here's the idea. 563 00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:20,440 Speaker 1: It's me in the seventies as a newscaster, and that's 564 00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:22,040 Speaker 1: all you got to say. And they're like, yes, here's 565 00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:26,760 Speaker 1: the checkbook. That's like the dream yea. So maybe that Yeah, 566 00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:30,480 Speaker 1: So all sorts of facets of my personality probably drove 567 00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:33,760 Speaker 1: me to admire or try to you know, aim towards 568 00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:36,400 Speaker 1: those people. Yeah, and with and with the twelve step 569 00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:39,320 Speaker 1: program and that journey too, Like what was it like 570 00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:44,400 Speaker 1: that first time? And my more understanding of that journey 571 00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:48,280 Speaker 1: comes through one of my dear friends, Russell Brand, because 572 00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:51,440 Speaker 1: he speaks about it often as well, and me and 573 00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:54,239 Speaker 1: him share the same meditation teacher, and so that's how 574 00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:56,320 Speaker 1: I got to know him a long time ago, and 575 00:29:56,400 --> 00:30:00,160 Speaker 1: so I that's that's my only knowledge of it. So 576 00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:02,200 Speaker 1: apart from that, I, you know, I've only learned about 577 00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:04,840 Speaker 1: it through him. But with that experience, what was it 578 00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:06,960 Speaker 1: like that first time? Because I love what you said 579 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:09,600 Speaker 1: it It was so interesting to me because I've never 580 00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:13,800 Speaker 1: heard anyone say that. But the practice of having vulnerable 581 00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:17,000 Speaker 1: conversations about your flaws in a space that is non 582 00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:20,640 Speaker 1: judgment based and non critical. What was it like that 583 00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:24,240 Speaker 1: first time when you saw that happening around you, Like 584 00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:27,480 Speaker 1: did you look at it and go, well, this can't 585 00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:30,440 Speaker 1: be real, or because we've never experienced that, or did 586 00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:32,160 Speaker 1: you look at it and go, oh, this is easy. 587 00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:34,360 Speaker 1: I can be an open book, like how did that 588 00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:36,960 Speaker 1: feel for the first time, because I'd say most people 589 00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:39,400 Speaker 1: have never really been in a room that looks like 590 00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:43,280 Speaker 1: that unless they are going on to twelve step program. Right, 591 00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:46,600 Speaker 1: that's such a huge question. First of all, my father 592 00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:49,280 Speaker 1: got sober when I was fourteen, so I had some 593 00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:51,960 Speaker 1: loose knowledge of it. I had gone to meetings with him. 594 00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:55,280 Speaker 1: I knew a lot about it. That in its own 595 00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:57,520 Speaker 1: way became a hurdle to me because that was virtually 596 00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:00,320 Speaker 1: like my Catholicism. We were in a religious family. I 597 00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:04,520 Speaker 1: know no one are people like me don't want to 598 00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:07,280 Speaker 1: just take the religion they were handed, you know, It's 599 00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:10,040 Speaker 1: just I don't know so that it was a hurdle 600 00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:13,040 Speaker 1: in some ways. But when I went there, and this 601 00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:16,040 Speaker 1: again is about me, I can't really answer to why 602 00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:18,680 Speaker 1: it appeals to other people. But I have this deep 603 00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:24,000 Speaker 1: skepticism about people in general because of my childhood. There's 604 00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:27,720 Speaker 1: a lot of distrustful people. I have a really overly 605 00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:30,680 Speaker 1: healthy skepticism. So if I had walked into AA and 606 00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:33,320 Speaker 1: there was a leader of A, I would have been out. 607 00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:35,680 Speaker 1: If there was a way to move up in AA, 608 00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:38,120 Speaker 1: I would have been out. If there was any money 609 00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:41,360 Speaker 1: associated with AA, I'd be out. Because as soon as 610 00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:44,520 Speaker 1: those things are on the table, I'm obsessed with intentions. 611 00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:47,840 Speaker 1: I cannot feel safe and comfortable until I think I've 612 00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:52,920 Speaker 1: accurately evaluated your intentions. So the magic of that place, 613 00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:56,440 Speaker 1: to me is almost structural. I don't know how this 614 00:31:56,480 --> 00:32:01,120 Speaker 1: thing has existed for eighty years without a president or 615 00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:05,480 Speaker 1: a you know, a CEO or anybody. Because had I 616 00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:07,560 Speaker 1: gone and there was a leader right and I heard 617 00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:11,560 Speaker 1: other men share vulnerably, I would have immediately thought, Oh, 618 00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:14,000 Speaker 1: they're trying to impress this guy. So what I deduced 619 00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:17,280 Speaker 1: is that this guy likes vulnerability. This guy's probably perverse 620 00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:19,320 Speaker 1: in some way, or maybe he wants leverage on people, 621 00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:22,320 Speaker 1: or he wants collateral. That's why he's encouraging everyone to 622 00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:25,520 Speaker 1: dump their secrets. So I couldn't have done it. I mean, 623 00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:27,280 Speaker 1: just a simple fact that no one there can tell 624 00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:29,520 Speaker 1: you whether you're right or wrong. All they can do, 625 00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:32,520 Speaker 1: and all I can do is share my experience my 626 00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:35,480 Speaker 1: strength and my hope. That's all it is. So I 627 00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:41,560 Speaker 1: think just that neutral, no one's incentivized, no money, no hierarchy. 628 00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:44,800 Speaker 1: That's why it was magic for me. Yeah, that's special. 629 00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:49,440 Speaker 1: That's really amazing because when you think about that, as 630 00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:51,840 Speaker 1: I said before, that's super rare in the world for 631 00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:54,400 Speaker 1: people to have a space like that to go to. 632 00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:56,760 Speaker 1: I don't know what it is, to be honest, because 633 00:32:56,760 --> 00:32:59,320 Speaker 1: even the Church I can be really skeptical of that. 634 00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:02,239 Speaker 1: I think obviously, I think there's there's some continuum of 635 00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:06,160 Speaker 1: religions world religions where less our hierarchical, less our money driven. 636 00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:10,840 Speaker 1: But certainly as soon as you've got an intermediary between 637 00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:14,840 Speaker 1: this book, everyone believes in in you. I don't like that. 638 00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:18,080 Speaker 1: I'm out for any any system that has someone that 639 00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:21,640 Speaker 1: has to interpret a book we can all read. Yeah, yeah, 640 00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:25,440 Speaker 1: I don't trust that. Why would that be necessary? Again, 641 00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:27,480 Speaker 1: But that's I can own my own baggage. That that's 642 00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:31,640 Speaker 1: you know, I'm a distrusting person out of the gates, 643 00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:34,360 Speaker 1: how have you. I'm fascinated by that, and and I 644 00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:37,960 Speaker 1: don't I don't again, I don't, um, I don't think 645 00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:41,000 Speaker 1: that's just a baggage thing I think there's there's triggers 646 00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:44,160 Speaker 1: and there's baggage. Right, there's both, Like there's it's not 647 00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:46,360 Speaker 1: that what you're seeing is not also true. There is 648 00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:48,720 Speaker 1: truth in what you're seeing, and then there's truth in 649 00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:51,680 Speaker 1: the trigger. So it's it's both hands. But when I 650 00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:55,600 Speaker 1: look at what, I'm really interested in knowing how you, 651 00:33:55,720 --> 00:34:01,720 Speaker 1: as a more skeptical person or untrust person, have found 652 00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:05,240 Speaker 1: an ability to build trust in a relationship with your 653 00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:08,440 Speaker 1: wife in a relationship I don't And again I don't 654 00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:11,480 Speaker 1: know you that way, So I'm projecting and you can 655 00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:14,960 Speaker 1: fill in the right details well, but business partners, with 656 00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:18,640 Speaker 1: people in your life, with even directors you work with, 657 00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:21,680 Speaker 1: who are giving you advice on how to portray a character, 658 00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:25,520 Speaker 1: like can you walk us through a journey of trust 659 00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:29,840 Speaker 1: from the Dak Shepherd perspective of going from being someone 660 00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:33,600 Speaker 1: who has skepticism a healthy skepticism. As you said, that's 661 00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:37,920 Speaker 1: a great question, because I'm most comfortable telling you about 662 00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:41,319 Speaker 1: things I've overcome, like I'm happy to tell you I 663 00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:43,879 Speaker 1: haven't drank in eighteen years, Like I'll tell you all 664 00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:45,680 Speaker 1: about how I figured out how to do that, right. 665 00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:48,839 Speaker 1: I also want to say, and this is why your 666 00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:52,040 Speaker 1: choice to be a monk perplexes me because I was 667 00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:55,040 Speaker 1: only open to that radical change. Let me just say, 668 00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:57,560 Speaker 1: there's a bunch of gods mentioned a hold on in 669 00:34:57,640 --> 00:34:59,680 Speaker 1: that big book, and that's a big trigger for me. 670 00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:04,759 Speaker 1: But I wanted to die less than I want to 671 00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:08,560 Speaker 1: say God, it may be the only thing to be honest, 672 00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:11,640 Speaker 1: So you know that it's a great motivator for change 673 00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:14,319 Speaker 1: when you actually come to terms with the fact that 674 00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:17,719 Speaker 1: the other option's death. So every other option for me 675 00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:21,160 Speaker 1: is probably a little less painful than death, So I 676 00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:24,160 Speaker 1: start from there. I'm not someone who's quick to listen 677 00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:26,880 Speaker 1: to other people and believe that what they said is working. 678 00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:31,480 Speaker 1: It's really newly being explored. Like I'm just newly in 679 00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:35,040 Speaker 1: therapy to actually confront this is do who do I 680 00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:39,280 Speaker 1: really trust? What allows me to trust people is not healthy? 681 00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:44,400 Speaker 1: Is actually I think I'm wrong sometimes, But I'm actually 682 00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:49,200 Speaker 1: very very good at assessing intention because I've lived this 683 00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:51,640 Speaker 1: way for so long. I'm pretty good that walking into 684 00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:54,920 Speaker 1: a room and figuring out what everyone in there's motive is. 685 00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:57,640 Speaker 1: And there are a lot of motives that don't trigger me, 686 00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:00,800 Speaker 1: so I don't mind. Like you know, it gets tricky 687 00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:04,440 Speaker 1: when you're I hate this word, but famous. If you're 688 00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:07,759 Speaker 1: on TV, there's going to be a dynamic around you 689 00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:11,759 Speaker 1: with how people act towards you, and you can find 690 00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:14,040 Speaker 1: yourself question you're like, oh, does this person really like me? 691 00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:16,720 Speaker 1: Are they just trying to perhaps get in my circle 692 00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:19,520 Speaker 1: so they can elevate their own thing, And then somehow 693 00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:21,279 Speaker 1: you come out on the other side is like, that's 694 00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:24,120 Speaker 1: not even the right question. Ask is this relationship beneficial 695 00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:26,600 Speaker 1: to me? Do I enjoy it? If this person ends 696 00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:28,799 Speaker 1: up getting the thing they want? Does that affect me 697 00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:31,200 Speaker 1: in any way? No? Doesn't, And do I enjoy them? 698 00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:34,960 Speaker 1: Like I gotta get out of Sometimes I can recognize 699 00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:36,799 Speaker 1: the intention and then just step over it, like and 700 00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:39,840 Speaker 1: it doesn't matter. I have intentions. We all have intentions. 701 00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:44,760 Speaker 1: But there are intentions I don't mind, and there's ones 702 00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:49,120 Speaker 1: that I mind. But with my wife, there was a 703 00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:55,520 Speaker 1: super super specific thing which was my family was single mom, 704 00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:58,399 Speaker 1: three kids. The way you showed you loved each other 705 00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:01,280 Speaker 1: was to never ever be a drain on one another. 706 00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:04,920 Speaker 1: That was the ultimate way is to be self sufficient. 707 00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:10,839 Speaker 1: We were all overworked, underfunded, and then what you could 708 00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:14,080 Speaker 1: do is never suck on anyone else. So when you 709 00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:17,799 Speaker 1: get sick in my house, no one cares. And that 710 00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:21,560 Speaker 1: was not Christen's experience, right. So there was one time 711 00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:23,920 Speaker 1: in particular, like they were kind of stacking up, and 712 00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:25,839 Speaker 1: she said, will you get me a water? We're both 713 00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:27,920 Speaker 1: sitting on the couch now. If I'm standing next to 714 00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:30,440 Speaker 1: the sink and you say get me a water, that 715 00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:33,239 Speaker 1: makes sense. But the notion that I would get up 716 00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:36,040 Speaker 1: off the couch and give you a water when you 717 00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:39,799 Speaker 1: two are next that was I had to bring it up. 718 00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:42,440 Speaker 1: I was like, I'm sorry, I don't. This is crazy 719 00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:43,960 Speaker 1: to me that you would ask me to do something 720 00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:46,440 Speaker 1: that would take me just as much effort as you, 721 00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:50,000 Speaker 1: and you're the one that's thirsty. I'm not thirsty. And 722 00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:53,080 Speaker 1: she's like, well, god, oh, my family, that's how we 723 00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:55,120 Speaker 1: do it. Like some days you have energy and you 724 00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:57,399 Speaker 1: don't mind getting everyone you make the dinner. Everyone else 725 00:37:57,480 --> 00:37:59,160 Speaker 1: is tired, and then the other days you're tired, they 726 00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:01,560 Speaker 1: make the dinner. It's all a symbiotic and it all works. 727 00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:04,040 Speaker 1: And I'm like trying to buy into this. So I'm 728 00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:06,600 Speaker 1: actually trying to figure out, No, is she just lazy? 729 00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:09,080 Speaker 1: And like I'm setting a pattern in this relationship where 730 00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:12,040 Speaker 1: I'm gonna wait on her hand and that's off the table. Yeah, 731 00:38:12,680 --> 00:38:16,120 Speaker 1: And I honestly, I had to ask myself the question, 732 00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:19,920 Speaker 1: is this person out to harm me? Or do I 733 00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:22,920 Speaker 1: truly believe this is a good person and this is 734 00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:25,160 Speaker 1: just how she operates? Yeah, And I don't know that 735 00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:28,120 Speaker 1: I really ever asked myself. I forced myself to think 736 00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:31,000 Speaker 1: of it in that way, and I concluded, and this 737 00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:35,680 Speaker 1: was like fourteen years ago, She's a good person. She's 738 00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:37,919 Speaker 1: gonna do things that I think are weird and blah 739 00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:41,920 Speaker 1: blah blah. But ultimately, my diagnosis, my verdict is this 740 00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:44,879 Speaker 1: is a good person and I'm gonna I'm gonna learn 741 00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:46,760 Speaker 1: to work through all those other things because I'm gonna 742 00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:49,160 Speaker 1: make that conclusion now. Now, whether she is or not, 743 00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:52,120 Speaker 1: it kind of doesn't matter. I decided that yes, and 744 00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:54,239 Speaker 1: that has allowed me to cohabitate with her for a 745 00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:57,279 Speaker 1: very long time. Which is not to say I won't 746 00:38:57,280 --> 00:38:59,560 Speaker 1: think she's out to destroy me sometimes, because I also 747 00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:02,279 Speaker 1: laps under that of course you will. Of course you will, 748 00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:05,560 Speaker 1: And I think that's a healthier way to make it. 749 00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:09,360 Speaker 1: I love what you said, though, though, because I've often 750 00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:12,520 Speaker 1: I've never really had this conversation with anyone before, and 751 00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:16,720 Speaker 1: I think the same. I think I have a strong 752 00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:21,840 Speaker 1: intention radar, and I am highly aware of people's intentions 753 00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:25,160 Speaker 1: in my periphery and not I think I've had it 754 00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:27,200 Speaker 1: for a long time. And I don't think I've ever 755 00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:29,600 Speaker 1: had this conversation with anyone before, because I've never heard 756 00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:32,160 Speaker 1: anyone actually say that. And when you said that, I 757 00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:34,120 Speaker 1: was wondering, how do you what are the things you're 758 00:39:34,120 --> 00:39:37,160 Speaker 1: looking out for when you are because I think that's 759 00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:38,960 Speaker 1: something a lot of people struggle with, right I think 760 00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:40,680 Speaker 1: a lot of people are listening to us right now 761 00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:44,120 Speaker 1: would say, well, Dax and Jay, like I'd never know, 762 00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:46,640 Speaker 1: Like I thought this person was amazing and then they 763 00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:49,520 Speaker 1: screwed me over. Or you know, this person was like 764 00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:51,360 Speaker 1: my business partner and we were building and then all 765 00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:54,360 Speaker 1: of a sudden they changed. And I'm wondering whether you 766 00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:56,600 Speaker 1: would say, actually, no, I could tell that intention was 767 00:39:56,600 --> 00:40:00,879 Speaker 1: always there, It's just that it manifested later. Yeah, talk 768 00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:04,680 Speaker 1: to me how you assess intentions so that our audience 769 00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:07,880 Speaker 1: can think about that too for themselves. Well let's start 770 00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:09,920 Speaker 1: with Okay, so you just said you got bullied in 771 00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:13,000 Speaker 1: elementary school. Yeah, so you were in situations I'm sure 772 00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:15,760 Speaker 1: where you were misled. You thought someone was your friend, 773 00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:17,319 Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden they turned their back 774 00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:19,200 Speaker 1: on you because these other dudes who were cooler and 775 00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:21,879 Speaker 1: to elevate or lower themselves, right, Yeah, I mean, I'll 776 00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:24,400 Speaker 1: tell you a specific story, because it's as soon as 777 00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:26,560 Speaker 1: you said that, this memory came like shooting back. So 778 00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:30,960 Speaker 1: I was the dorky, geeky, overweight Indian kid in elementary 779 00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:36,440 Speaker 1: school and the toughest kid in school became my best 780 00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:39,319 Speaker 1: friend for some reason, I have no idea why. And 781 00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:42,000 Speaker 1: so Jay and Ian Ian was his name, and Ian 782 00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:44,960 Speaker 1: became my best friend at school, and he would protect 783 00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:47,560 Speaker 1: me from the bullies and he would defend me. And 784 00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:49,439 Speaker 1: I don't know. I still don't know why I should 785 00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:51,799 Speaker 1: ask him. I know I have him as a Facebook friend, 786 00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:53,120 Speaker 1: so I need to go and ask him a why. 787 00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:55,279 Speaker 1: And so he would really protect me and defend me, 788 00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:58,120 Speaker 1: and I never felt an ego. I was like, wow, 789 00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:01,160 Speaker 1: like he that's so nice of him. And then what 790 00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:04,040 Speaker 1: happened is that one of the girls told him when 791 00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:06,520 Speaker 1: we got older, I think we're in like fourth grade, yeah, 792 00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:08,759 Speaker 1: probably at fourth grade, and one of the girls who 793 00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:11,360 Speaker 1: was kind of dating him or whatever dating looks like. 794 00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:14,200 Speaker 1: In the fourth grade, she said to him. She goes, well, 795 00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:17,120 Speaker 1: you know, Jay's been talking crap about you, and that 796 00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:18,920 Speaker 1: wasn't true. I would I would never do that. It's 797 00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:22,120 Speaker 1: not my vibe. And she's for some reason. I don't 798 00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:24,840 Speaker 1: know what it was. I have no idea why she 799 00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:27,040 Speaker 1: told him. She was like, Jay's been talking crap about you, 800 00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:28,560 Speaker 1: and just so you know, I wanted you to be 801 00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:30,759 Speaker 1: the first to know. And you know he's been doing it. 802 00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:33,720 Speaker 1: I don't know this conversation's happened. All of a sudden, 803 00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:37,879 Speaker 1: I see my best friend at school storm out of 804 00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:41,000 Speaker 1: the canteen walk right up to me while I'm playing 805 00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:43,319 Speaker 1: football soccer with a bunch of my friends onto the 806 00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:46,640 Speaker 1: big field that we had at school, and he punches 807 00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:50,279 Speaker 1: me in the face. He rips my shirt, pushes me, 808 00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:53,040 Speaker 1: punches me in the face again. I've got I'm on 809 00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:55,120 Speaker 1: the floor going in, what is wrong with you? He's 810 00:41:55,160 --> 00:41:58,920 Speaker 1: just like punching me away in the fourth grade and afterwards, 811 00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:01,279 Speaker 1: I remember the most embarras something. My mom drives me 812 00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:04,000 Speaker 1: to his mum's house off to school for him to 813 00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:08,600 Speaker 1: apologize to me. Anyway, when you see a move right there, 814 00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:10,520 Speaker 1: right yeah, when you said that, that that was the first member. 815 00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:12,520 Speaker 1: I've never shared that member anyway, that was the first 816 00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:15,080 Speaker 1: thing that came to my mind and anyway, so I 817 00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:18,400 Speaker 1: will give you back the intentions thing. Let's go well 818 00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:21,600 Speaker 1: and without getting bogged down. And you know, my trauma 819 00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:23,960 Speaker 1: off just you know, I was molested at a young age. 820 00:42:24,080 --> 00:42:27,799 Speaker 1: And so once that happens to you, and it's only 821 00:42:27,840 --> 00:42:31,680 Speaker 1: one of many things that happened to me, you have 822 00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:35,920 Speaker 1: to recognize that your worldview where people are generally nice 823 00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:40,799 Speaker 1: and kind and helpful, is incomplete. Yeah, that there are 824 00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:43,800 Speaker 1: other people who are acting one way to you and 825 00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:46,759 Speaker 1: building trust with you because they have an ulterior motive. 826 00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:49,319 Speaker 1: I also had a slew of stepdads. Some of them 827 00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:55,040 Speaker 1: were terrible, you know. So once you recognize that there 828 00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:58,040 Speaker 1: are people, now I think I'm skewed in how many 829 00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:00,319 Speaker 1: people there are, but there are sheeps and wolves, and 830 00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:03,959 Speaker 1: once you learn there are wolves, you know, you become 831 00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:07,479 Speaker 1: pretty preoccupied with it. So, I mean, it's a weird 832 00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:09,839 Speaker 1: thing to pass on to people what they should think about, 833 00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:12,920 Speaker 1: but I mean, in the simplest sense, you should be 834 00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:17,400 Speaker 1: able to tell yourself what the people around you want. 835 00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:20,239 Speaker 1: You should be able to recognize what people how do 836 00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:22,400 Speaker 1: you know what they want? Well, what do they talk about? 837 00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:26,160 Speaker 1: Who do they hate? That's always a real big clue 838 00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:29,719 Speaker 1: into what they want. People generally hate people who have 839 00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:33,080 Speaker 1: what they want. They think it's some other thing, but 840 00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:36,719 Speaker 1: in reality, they're jealous, they feel out class, maybe they 841 00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:38,640 Speaker 1: don't have the talent to be this person. So they 842 00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:40,759 Speaker 1: pick the four things that are discussing about them and 843 00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:44,000 Speaker 1: they go on incessantly about those things. So you can 844 00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:47,960 Speaker 1: pretty much discern what people want. I think, and then 845 00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:50,600 Speaker 1: you just have to ask yourself, do I think them 846 00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:52,560 Speaker 1: wanting that is going to get in the way of 847 00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:54,359 Speaker 1: this friendship? Is it going to get in a way 848 00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:57,920 Speaker 1: of this relationships? Am I going to be someone that 849 00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:00,839 Speaker 1: triggers them because I have what I want? That's an 850 00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:03,880 Speaker 1: important thing to know. Again, it doesn't have to lead 851 00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:07,640 Speaker 1: to because again, no one's clean. We all want something. 852 00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:10,120 Speaker 1: I don't claim to not want anything. Of course, if 853 00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:13,880 Speaker 1: you and I hung out, like your wife is maybe 854 00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:18,320 Speaker 1: the most striking person I've at least ever seen on Instagram. 855 00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:23,080 Speaker 1: I mean, she's so absurdly beautiful. I will want her 856 00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:26,279 Speaker 1: to validate me if we meet in some way. I'm 857 00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:28,799 Speaker 1: not asking her to cheat. I'm not gonna cheat, but 858 00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:33,040 Speaker 1: I can tell you I need to leave there thinking, Yep, 859 00:44:33,239 --> 00:44:37,399 Speaker 1: I made an impression on her. Now you may chalk 860 00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:38,880 Speaker 1: that up too. If this guy's gonna put on a 861 00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:41,239 Speaker 1: good show for us, which will be the case, I'm 862 00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:43,319 Speaker 1: gonna put on out a show for you, and you 863 00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:45,080 Speaker 1: may go, she's not gonna cheat on me, and he's 864 00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:47,600 Speaker 1: not gonna cheat on his wife, So all's fun. I'm 865 00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:50,239 Speaker 1: gonna be the beneficiary of this. But that's that's what 866 00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:53,160 Speaker 1: I will want in that situation. Yeah, it can be 867 00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:55,360 Speaker 1: a name, it can be benevolent, it can be anything. 868 00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:58,080 Speaker 1: But I do I think you're you'd be naive to 869 00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:00,920 Speaker 1: think that everyone doesn't want something. Yeah, and then you're 870 00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:05,440 Speaker 1: kind of grading their history to their history of you know, 871 00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:08,120 Speaker 1: breaking norms and laws to get what they want. Now 872 00:45:08,120 --> 00:45:10,759 Speaker 1: you're in a totally different bracket as well. Yeah. The 873 00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:13,040 Speaker 1: reason the reason why I think that that is such 874 00:45:13,080 --> 00:45:16,799 Speaker 1: a brilliant answer is because I think we still live 875 00:45:16,840 --> 00:45:21,359 Speaker 1: in a binary world where we generally believe, of course 876 00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:24,280 Speaker 1: I'm completely generalizing right now. This is not statistically proven, 877 00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:26,680 Speaker 1: but we're not trying to do that, is that we 878 00:45:26,760 --> 00:45:30,240 Speaker 1: generally believe that people either want something or they don't 879 00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:34,960 Speaker 1: want something, and you yeah, and you yeah, and you 880 00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:39,040 Speaker 1: just established you're like, well, actually, Jay, pretty much everyone 881 00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:42,759 Speaker 1: wants something, and it's more important to accept that and 882 00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:45,680 Speaker 1: then figure out what that is rather than live in 883 00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:47,959 Speaker 1: this world of like I can trust this person because 884 00:45:47,960 --> 00:45:50,680 Speaker 1: they don't want anything, and I can trust this person. 885 00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:53,359 Speaker 1: I can't trust this person because they do want something, right, 886 00:45:53,520 --> 00:45:55,680 Speaker 1: Because that, Yeah, I think that that. I think the 887 00:45:56,160 --> 00:45:59,600 Speaker 1: kind of pragmatic or a productive outcome is generally when 888 00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:02,400 Speaker 1: you find people that want the exact same thing as you, 889 00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:05,080 Speaker 1: and it's not finite. Yeah. So if it's a role 890 00:46:05,120 --> 00:46:08,359 Speaker 1: in one movie and you both want that, that's right 891 00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:12,960 Speaker 1: for trouble. Yeah, But if we both want something we 892 00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:15,759 Speaker 1: can both have. This is a great foundation for a 893 00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:18,200 Speaker 1: friendship because this is what we will do. This will 894 00:46:18,239 --> 00:46:20,960 Speaker 1: be the activity. So like you'll find, as I said, 895 00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:26,279 Speaker 1: I can talk from morning tonight. My friends love hypotheticals 896 00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:29,480 Speaker 1: and in moral issues, and like I want to be 897 00:46:29,560 --> 00:46:32,879 Speaker 1: invigorated and I want to play. And if I find 898 00:46:32,880 --> 00:46:36,000 Speaker 1: someone who else loves to play, well that's awesome. That's 899 00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:39,440 Speaker 1: a great foundation. Yeah, yeah, definitely, And I think I 900 00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:43,120 Speaker 1: think what I value in reflecting back of what you're saying, 901 00:46:43,239 --> 00:46:45,799 Speaker 1: is I just like and I think this was part 902 00:46:45,840 --> 00:46:49,400 Speaker 1: of the monk thing and actually more becoming that allowed 903 00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:51,880 Speaker 1: me to be this way. More was I just like 904 00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:57,319 Speaker 1: exposing myself with as much randomness as possible, or like 905 00:46:57,520 --> 00:47:01,600 Speaker 1: extremes as possible, or different people as possible, because I 906 00:47:01,960 --> 00:47:04,080 Speaker 1: just feel like I would never if you ask me 907 00:47:04,120 --> 00:47:05,480 Speaker 1: what I wanted to be when I was five years 908 00:47:05,520 --> 00:47:09,080 Speaker 1: old or fifteen or even now, when I look back 909 00:47:09,080 --> 00:47:11,160 Speaker 1: at it, I would never have said the word monk. 910 00:47:11,239 --> 00:47:14,480 Speaker 1: I didn't even know that the word existed. I didn't 911 00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:18,359 Speaker 1: have any affinity towards it. So I start thinking now, 912 00:47:18,440 --> 00:47:21,120 Speaker 1: I'm like, well, wait a minute. If I could never 913 00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:24,600 Speaker 1: conceive that because I'd never met someone who was that, 914 00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:27,200 Speaker 1: then how many ideas exist in the world that I 915 00:47:27,239 --> 00:47:30,600 Speaker 1: can't conceive because I have not met someone who has 916 00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:34,319 Speaker 1: played around with that idea or that thought. And so 917 00:47:34,640 --> 00:47:36,279 Speaker 1: when I when I reach out to someone like you 918 00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:38,560 Speaker 1: and and and I look at we don't I don't know. 919 00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:40,400 Speaker 1: I don't think we have a lot in common apart 920 00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:42,400 Speaker 1: from having a podcast. Oh, I bet we have a 921 00:47:42,440 --> 00:47:45,040 Speaker 1: turning common. We probably have. We probably have a fair 922 00:47:45,040 --> 00:47:47,560 Speaker 1: bit in common but at least I don't know. Maybe maye, maye. 923 00:47:47,560 --> 00:47:49,239 Speaker 1: I'm looking forward to figuring out what we did is 924 00:47:49,280 --> 00:47:51,600 Speaker 1: what do we what do we count as in as 925 00:47:51,719 --> 00:47:55,160 Speaker 1: in common like, No, I'm not I'm not a brown 926 00:47:55,239 --> 00:47:57,719 Speaker 1: person living in a white world. I'm not I'm not 927 00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:00,879 Speaker 1: a monk. I'm not. I don't live in wherever you live. 928 00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:05,840 Speaker 1: Ah hooie whoie. The fact that we both have shows 929 00:48:05,840 --> 00:48:09,040 Speaker 1: where we talk to people probably says way more about 930 00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:12,520 Speaker 1: you and I than any of those other things. You know. Yeah, 931 00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:16,400 Speaker 1: but but I love what you're saying because I don't 932 00:48:16,560 --> 00:48:19,840 Speaker 1: personally give advice. It's not how AA works. All I 933 00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:22,440 Speaker 1: do is I share who I am, and you hear 934 00:48:22,560 --> 00:48:25,440 Speaker 1: something in there that you think you might apply it. Great, 935 00:48:25,600 --> 00:48:27,920 Speaker 1: But I'm not one to tell people, and I have 936 00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:33,320 Speaker 1: nothing prescriptive to say to anyone other I will often say, though, 937 00:48:34,120 --> 00:48:39,040 Speaker 1: I have been very grateful that my identity has been flexible. Yeah, 938 00:48:39,880 --> 00:48:41,959 Speaker 1: and I think I do think a lot of people 939 00:48:42,040 --> 00:48:44,560 Speaker 1: could benefit because you just made the greatest point, which 940 00:48:44,640 --> 00:48:47,439 Speaker 1: is you didn't know a monk was an option. So 941 00:48:47,480 --> 00:48:50,920 Speaker 1: if you don't know what every single option is, don't 942 00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:53,480 Speaker 1: be so locked into the one thing, because there might 943 00:48:53,520 --> 00:48:55,840 Speaker 1: be a better option. I didn't know what There was 944 00:48:55,880 --> 00:48:59,359 Speaker 1: no such thing as a podcaster. Yea, So twenty years 945 00:48:59,400 --> 00:49:02,200 Speaker 1: ago I couldn't have aimed at being a podcaster because 946 00:49:02,239 --> 00:49:05,359 Speaker 1: there wasn't one. Yeah, but my identity is flexible enough 947 00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:08,160 Speaker 1: that it's like when when I'm in the river and 948 00:49:08,200 --> 00:49:11,640 Speaker 1: it's flown in my direction, I'll stay in it, you know. Yeah, No, 949 00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:14,080 Speaker 1: I'm glad that resonated, yeah for me. For me, that's 950 00:49:14,480 --> 00:49:16,800 Speaker 1: that's what it is. So I'm always trying to find like, oh, 951 00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:19,600 Speaker 1: even even though so you know, a while ago, I 952 00:49:19,640 --> 00:49:24,160 Speaker 1: realized that sometimes there were necessarily not newer ideas, but 953 00:49:24,200 --> 00:49:26,480 Speaker 1: they were deeper ideas, and so I was like, let 954 00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:28,080 Speaker 1: me stop looking for a new idea, but let me 955 00:49:28,120 --> 00:49:30,840 Speaker 1: look for how I can deep, deeply understand an idea. 956 00:49:30,920 --> 00:49:32,839 Speaker 1: Because and that's what I'm hearing from you when you're 957 00:49:32,880 --> 00:49:35,520 Speaker 1: churning stuff with your friends, how do you how have 958 00:49:35,560 --> 00:49:37,440 Speaker 1: you found a way to be playful with the people 959 00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:42,480 Speaker 1: around you where you're able to entertain different thoughts without 960 00:49:42,560 --> 00:49:48,680 Speaker 1: feeling forced to pick a side, defend, or make someone 961 00:49:48,719 --> 00:49:50,800 Speaker 1: think a certain way. Because I think that's a healthy 962 00:49:50,800 --> 00:49:54,759 Speaker 1: conversation to have. Because I love the idea of So I, 963 00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:59,080 Speaker 1: in one sense, I have a very clear philosophy of 964 00:49:59,160 --> 00:50:01,080 Speaker 1: life because of my time as a monk. I think 965 00:50:01,080 --> 00:50:04,040 Speaker 1: there are certain tenets that I ascribed to. But I 966 00:50:04,080 --> 00:50:06,920 Speaker 1: also think that that time gave me an openness to 967 00:50:06,920 --> 00:50:10,480 Speaker 1: accept that this idea should be able to be upgraded 968 00:50:10,520 --> 00:50:13,040 Speaker 1: at any time. So if someone can give me something 969 00:50:13,040 --> 00:50:15,719 Speaker 1: to upgrade my philosophy of life, I should accept it, 970 00:50:15,760 --> 00:50:18,359 Speaker 1: because it would be ridiculous to say, no, I know 971 00:50:18,440 --> 00:50:20,680 Speaker 1: the truth and everything else is false. So I like 972 00:50:20,920 --> 00:50:24,400 Speaker 1: entertaining two ideas. How have you encouraged and how do 973 00:50:24,440 --> 00:50:28,479 Speaker 1: people around you learn to entertain two ideas at once 974 00:50:28,520 --> 00:50:32,839 Speaker 1: that are seemingly contradictory but allow them both to live? Yeah? 975 00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:35,480 Speaker 1: I would imagine you and I both love that. You know, 976 00:50:35,520 --> 00:50:39,319 Speaker 1: one of the crowning measurements of intelligence is being able 977 00:50:39,360 --> 00:50:43,360 Speaker 1: to hold to conflicting ideas and conflicting feelings and emotions 978 00:50:43,440 --> 00:50:48,279 Speaker 1: and bored out of my mind. If I don't have 979 00:50:48,360 --> 00:50:51,560 Speaker 1: some conflict in my head of thought, of emotion, all 980 00:50:51,560 --> 00:50:53,520 Speaker 1: that stuff, I just am bored. I mean it might 981 00:50:53,560 --> 00:50:56,520 Speaker 1: just be as simple as me being an you know, 982 00:50:56,560 --> 00:50:59,040 Speaker 1: an activity freak. Whatever it is, I will say, my 983 00:50:59,120 --> 00:51:04,799 Speaker 1: mother was genius. I think I had two pretty informative 984 00:51:05,360 --> 00:51:08,120 Speaker 1: experiences that have led me to where I'm at, which 985 00:51:08,160 --> 00:51:11,799 Speaker 1: is one is my mother. This would always happened. Two 986 00:51:11,880 --> 00:51:14,719 Speaker 1: kids would die in a drunk driving accident in my town, 987 00:51:15,080 --> 00:51:18,400 Speaker 1: and the town would be furious at the driver and 988 00:51:18,680 --> 00:51:20,920 Speaker 1: the poor or maybe the victim of the other thing. 989 00:51:21,040 --> 00:51:25,520 Speaker 1: My mother are always her first thing would be like, oh, 990 00:51:25,560 --> 00:51:29,240 Speaker 1: the poor parents of both those kids, that poor kid driving. 991 00:51:30,040 --> 00:51:32,200 Speaker 1: You know, they handed out cigars for both those little 992 00:51:32,280 --> 00:51:35,400 Speaker 1: kids when they were born, and they're both here. She'd 993 00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:38,120 Speaker 1: feel bad for perpetrators of crimes as much as she 994 00:51:38,239 --> 00:51:41,680 Speaker 1: did the victims of crime. That's a bizarre I don't 995 00:51:41,760 --> 00:51:44,880 Speaker 1: know where she got that, but I think she always 996 00:51:44,960 --> 00:51:47,759 Speaker 1: forced me to imagine that there was suffering on all 997 00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:50,279 Speaker 1: sides of it. No one's like that. That was nobody's 998 00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:54,520 Speaker 1: best day. And I carried that and I like that, 999 00:51:54,600 --> 00:51:58,960 Speaker 1: and it drives my wife nuts. I forced myself to 1000 00:51:59,040 --> 00:52:02,160 Speaker 1: imagine how the you know whatever, they too are a victim. 1001 00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:05,520 Speaker 1: And then secondly, I majored in anthropology, So anthropologies is 1002 00:52:05,600 --> 00:52:08,120 Speaker 1: a great way to break your thinking because you walk 1003 00:52:08,160 --> 00:52:11,120 Speaker 1: into it with something. Let's do the hottest button topic 1004 00:52:11,160 --> 00:52:15,640 Speaker 1: in anthropology, like infanticide. The Inuit used to kill their 1005 00:52:15,840 --> 00:52:19,080 Speaker 1: babies after they were born. This is like, there's no 1006 00:52:19,120 --> 00:52:21,680 Speaker 1: way you're going to accept that this isn't the most amoral, 1007 00:52:21,800 --> 00:52:28,040 Speaker 1: horrific thing ever. But you are required to learn about 1008 00:52:28,160 --> 00:52:30,720 Speaker 1: what leads to that. Don't write it off as evil, 1009 00:52:30,760 --> 00:52:33,200 Speaker 1: don't write off as good or bad. Why is it 1010 00:52:33,239 --> 00:52:36,160 Speaker 1: they would do that. An anthropologist's job is just to 1011 00:52:36,280 --> 00:52:39,319 Speaker 1: literally find out how they live their life and why 1012 00:52:39,360 --> 00:52:41,239 Speaker 1: they live their life, what is their reason for living 1013 00:52:41,280 --> 00:52:43,720 Speaker 1: their life? And then you come to find out, well, wow, 1014 00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:47,640 Speaker 1: in their culture, only the men can hunt. Okay, but 1015 00:52:47,800 --> 00:52:49,680 Speaker 1: you could argue about whether that's right or wrong, but 1016 00:52:49,719 --> 00:52:52,439 Speaker 1: that is the case. You also then find out unlike 1017 00:52:52,440 --> 00:52:55,719 Speaker 1: most hunting and gathering societies, there's no gathering. It's ice. 1018 00:52:56,160 --> 00:53:00,160 Speaker 1: The only thing they're eating is will blubber. So their 1019 00:53:00,160 --> 00:53:02,840 Speaker 1: culture is also set up that if your child doesn't 1020 00:53:02,960 --> 00:53:06,240 Speaker 1: grow up to provide food for you, you're going to die. 1021 00:53:07,200 --> 00:53:10,680 Speaker 1: So you have to have a boy as your first child. 1022 00:53:11,160 --> 00:53:14,080 Speaker 1: You're then free to have a gale. I'm not saying 1023 00:53:14,440 --> 00:53:17,160 Speaker 1: I condone it, but it's like, there's so much more 1024 00:53:17,239 --> 00:53:22,120 Speaker 1: to this story than infanticide the headline, and there are 1025 00:53:22,200 --> 00:53:26,160 Speaker 1: societies set up in ways that certain things make sense 1026 00:53:26,200 --> 00:53:31,360 Speaker 1: to those people. So cultural relativism is what it's broadly labeled, 1027 00:53:31,480 --> 00:53:35,160 Speaker 1: that way of thinking. And if you can just forget 1028 00:53:35,200 --> 00:53:38,440 Speaker 1: about the conclusion for a minute, can forget about the verdict, 1029 00:53:38,440 --> 00:53:41,480 Speaker 1: the judgment, you might actually learn a load about something. 1030 00:53:41,560 --> 00:53:44,480 Speaker 1: And I just I think I've taken that with me. 1031 00:53:45,280 --> 00:53:47,279 Speaker 1: That may be the best thing I took out of 1032 00:53:47,280 --> 00:53:50,960 Speaker 1: there is just imagining that my way isn't the only way, 1033 00:53:51,120 --> 00:53:53,480 Speaker 1: that there are some other ways that feel very wrong 1034 00:53:53,520 --> 00:53:57,800 Speaker 1: to me, and that might work, might be optimal in places. 1035 00:53:58,040 --> 00:53:59,920 Speaker 1: And then I just read this book. I don't know 1036 00:53:59,920 --> 00:54:01,560 Speaker 1: if you've heard of this book, The Weirdest People on 1037 00:54:01,600 --> 00:54:05,120 Speaker 1: Earth of yours. I have not. That sounds amazing. I 1038 00:54:05,320 --> 00:54:08,560 Speaker 1: need to get that. It is mind blowing. It's it's 1039 00:54:08,600 --> 00:54:12,080 Speaker 1: about how different the brains of people in the West are. 1040 00:54:12,200 --> 00:54:16,440 Speaker 1: They are different. Starting with the simplest thing, Okay, I 1041 00:54:16,480 --> 00:54:18,279 Speaker 1: think I can roll this out in one second. So 1042 00:54:18,480 --> 00:54:20,799 Speaker 1: Martin Luther comes along. He says, there's no way that 1043 00:54:20,800 --> 00:54:22,839 Speaker 1: a priest can tell you how to communicate with God. 1044 00:54:22,920 --> 00:54:25,080 Speaker 1: You can communicate with God step oneto. That is, you 1045 00:54:25,160 --> 00:54:27,200 Speaker 1: gotta learn to read. You gotta learn to read this Bible. 1046 00:54:27,239 --> 00:54:30,000 Speaker 1: So he goes on this huge mission to make different 1047 00:54:30,080 --> 00:54:33,920 Speaker 1: populations literate. He's hugely successful. Prior to that, you had 1048 00:54:33,960 --> 00:54:36,720 Speaker 1: like top literacy, right maybe in Germany was five percent. 1049 00:54:36,960 --> 00:54:39,800 Speaker 1: Martin Luther comes around. Now you've got like eighty percent 1050 00:54:39,840 --> 00:54:42,880 Speaker 1: of people reading because of Martin Luther. Now, when you read, 1051 00:54:43,320 --> 00:54:47,040 Speaker 1: that changes your actual brain, the structure of your brain. 1052 00:54:47,760 --> 00:54:51,200 Speaker 1: It occupies such a bizarre it's such a bizarre thing 1053 00:54:51,280 --> 00:54:53,760 Speaker 1: to train your brain to do that. You lose some things. 1054 00:54:53,760 --> 00:54:57,160 Speaker 1: So when people learn to read, they lose some facial 1055 00:54:57,200 --> 00:55:00,920 Speaker 1: recognition skills, they can read less emotions. You know, it 1056 00:55:01,200 --> 00:55:06,560 Speaker 1: altered our brains. So if you start with the knowledge 1057 00:55:06,680 --> 00:55:10,040 Speaker 1: or the acceptance that our brains don't even work the 1058 00:55:10,160 --> 00:55:13,680 Speaker 1: same around the world, Yeah, how then could all of 1059 00:55:13,680 --> 00:55:16,680 Speaker 1: our conclusions work the same? How can we believe our 1060 00:55:16,719 --> 00:55:20,200 Speaker 1: conclusions are right, our conclusions are correct for this brain. Yeah, 1061 00:55:20,320 --> 00:55:24,320 Speaker 1: I don't know that they're they're they're accurate conclusions in Samoa. 1062 00:55:24,400 --> 00:55:27,520 Speaker 1: You know, it's I just I have such little faith 1063 00:55:27,560 --> 00:55:30,640 Speaker 1: in that any of us really know. And I'm comfortable 1064 00:55:30,680 --> 00:55:33,600 Speaker 1: with that. That's a big, I think distinction. Some people 1065 00:55:33,600 --> 00:55:37,080 Speaker 1: are very uncomfortable not knowing I'm very comfortable not knowing. 1066 00:55:37,480 --> 00:55:39,919 Speaker 1: And I'll tell you if I think I get asked 1067 00:55:39,920 --> 00:55:42,520 Speaker 1: this in interviews, like what have you kind of learned 1068 00:55:42,560 --> 00:55:46,719 Speaker 1: from having interviewed two hundred and fifty academics or professors? 1069 00:55:46,760 --> 00:55:49,160 Speaker 1: You know, because it's split it's celebrities, but then it's 1070 00:55:49,160 --> 00:55:55,719 Speaker 1: always academics, professors. Whatever. My conclusion is anything you believe in, 1071 00:55:55,800 --> 00:55:59,640 Speaker 1: at best, it might approach eighty percent correct. Yeah, you know, 1072 00:56:00,280 --> 00:56:02,120 Speaker 1: I'll have an expert on they'll lay it out and 1073 00:56:02,120 --> 00:56:04,640 Speaker 1: oh my god, they cracked it. That's it. And then 1074 00:56:04,880 --> 00:56:07,600 Speaker 1: a month later I have their adversary on that person 1075 00:56:07,680 --> 00:56:10,520 Speaker 1: lays it out. I'm like, my god, this the scale's 1076 00:56:10,560 --> 00:56:14,440 Speaker 1: got it. I mean, we are so flashlight in a 1077 00:56:14,520 --> 00:56:17,560 Speaker 1: cave with everything we know, and I just I don't 1078 00:56:17,560 --> 00:56:19,919 Speaker 1: know how. I don't. I don't think anyone should feel 1079 00:56:19,960 --> 00:56:22,680 Speaker 1: so certain about anything. I guess it is my conclusion. Yeah, yeah, 1080 00:56:22,719 --> 00:56:24,600 Speaker 1: And and that's that hard pot because it's like you 1081 00:56:24,640 --> 00:56:27,080 Speaker 1: need some sets indeed to make decisions, and then you 1082 00:56:27,160 --> 00:56:29,680 Speaker 1: need the unsetin ty to be adaptable. And that's where 1083 00:56:29,680 --> 00:56:31,480 Speaker 1: we all at turn. I should have the humility to 1084 00:56:31,520 --> 00:56:34,440 Speaker 1: say it's a probability. Of course, I'm gonna make a 1085 00:56:34,480 --> 00:56:37,799 Speaker 1: decision based on this probability. And that's about all you're 1086 00:56:37,840 --> 00:56:40,080 Speaker 1: gonna say, other than I drop this rock and it'll 1087 00:56:40,080 --> 00:56:45,600 Speaker 1: fall anything outside of gravity. You're probably making a probability analysis. Absolutely. 1088 00:56:45,600 --> 00:56:47,880 Speaker 1: And I love what you said about what your mum 1089 00:56:48,520 --> 00:56:51,840 Speaker 1: had that belief growing up. I mean that was remarkable, 1090 00:56:51,960 --> 00:56:55,400 Speaker 1: Like genuinely that is that is such a amazing thing 1091 00:56:55,440 --> 00:56:59,319 Speaker 1: to grow up around. I wonder these ideas, and I 1092 00:56:59,360 --> 00:57:02,240 Speaker 1: know you and Christ speak so much, so openly about parenting. 1093 00:57:02,239 --> 00:57:04,759 Speaker 1: I'm like, have you have you are there some of 1094 00:57:04,800 --> 00:57:07,439 Speaker 1: these ideas which are not like? What I love about 1095 00:57:07,440 --> 00:57:09,720 Speaker 1: this is as we always hear that that famous quote 1096 00:57:09,760 --> 00:57:13,080 Speaker 1: of uh, you know, we should learn how to think, 1097 00:57:13,120 --> 00:57:15,959 Speaker 1: not what to think, And these are all ways how 1098 00:57:16,040 --> 00:57:18,120 Speaker 1: to think, right, these are how to think. We're not 1099 00:57:18,160 --> 00:57:20,480 Speaker 1: telling You're not saying this is what you should think about. 1100 00:57:20,960 --> 00:57:23,880 Speaker 1: How how are you introducing or are you introducing some 1101 00:57:23,960 --> 00:57:27,160 Speaker 1: of these concepts or other concepts to your kids in parenting? 1102 00:57:27,160 --> 00:57:32,840 Speaker 1: And how's what's been a successful or unsuccessful transference of ideas? Um, 1103 00:57:33,000 --> 00:57:37,720 Speaker 1: I'm incessantly doing that because I don't I don't have 1104 00:57:37,760 --> 00:57:40,640 Speaker 1: a goal for them. I have preferences, but I don't 1105 00:57:40,680 --> 00:57:44,120 Speaker 1: have a goal for them to not believe in Jesus. 1106 00:57:45,080 --> 00:57:48,640 Speaker 1: I don't believe Jesus is the son of God. Personally. 1107 00:57:49,160 --> 00:57:51,880 Speaker 1: It makes my life probably easier with them if I 1108 00:57:51,880 --> 00:57:53,400 Speaker 1: didn't have to go to church with them all the 1109 00:57:53,400 --> 00:57:55,520 Speaker 1: time to be with them, but I actually don't care. 1110 00:57:55,880 --> 00:57:58,600 Speaker 1: All I want them to do is take in every 1111 00:57:58,640 --> 00:58:01,720 Speaker 1: side of everything. I just want them to be hard 1112 00:58:01,760 --> 00:58:05,280 Speaker 1: working in their thought. I want them to hear both 1113 00:58:05,280 --> 00:58:07,720 Speaker 1: sides with an open mind and an open heart and 1114 00:58:07,760 --> 00:58:10,680 Speaker 1: then do their synthesis. That's all I'm really looking for. 1115 00:58:10,840 --> 00:58:14,000 Speaker 1: In fact, this situation presents itself. So we have family 1116 00:58:14,000 --> 00:58:17,680 Speaker 1: members that are very religious concerned. I'm not baptizing our children. 1117 00:58:18,040 --> 00:58:21,320 Speaker 1: I think performing maybe a baptism in the living room 1118 00:58:21,360 --> 00:58:23,280 Speaker 1: when I wasn't looking, I mean, sincerely, I think that 1119 00:58:23,360 --> 00:58:26,880 Speaker 1: might have happened. Always bringing the Bible for kids, all 1120 00:58:26,880 --> 00:58:31,000 Speaker 1: this stuff, and initially I'm like, well, don't please, don't 1121 00:58:31,320 --> 00:58:35,000 Speaker 1: pass that on to these little beautiful kids. But then 1122 00:58:35,040 --> 00:58:37,480 Speaker 1: I thought, you know what, I was exposed to all that, 1123 00:58:37,680 --> 00:58:39,880 Speaker 1: and I came to whatever conclusion I came to, They're 1124 00:58:39,880 --> 00:58:41,760 Speaker 1: going to be just as able to do whatever they 1125 00:58:41,880 --> 00:58:44,720 Speaker 1: feels right to them. Who cares they can take on 1126 00:58:44,960 --> 00:58:47,880 Speaker 1: any information. I think critical thought will get them to 1127 00:58:47,920 --> 00:58:51,680 Speaker 1: where they need to be. And the only guardrails I asked, 1128 00:58:51,800 --> 00:58:54,800 Speaker 1: I said, you know what, indoctrinate them? Please don't introduce 1129 00:58:54,800 --> 00:58:57,439 Speaker 1: the concept of hell or sin. Those are the only two. 1130 00:58:57,520 --> 00:59:00,280 Speaker 1: I do not want. A little kid room and eighteen 1131 00:59:00,280 --> 00:59:01,680 Speaker 1: at night, whether or not they're going to end up 1132 00:59:01,680 --> 00:59:05,040 Speaker 1: in a fiery pit, I don't think that's useful for them. 1133 00:59:05,360 --> 00:59:08,520 Speaker 1: So I just put like two little tiny parameters. Luckily 1134 00:59:08,680 --> 00:59:11,640 Speaker 1: those people obliged and that they've left that part out, 1135 00:59:12,040 --> 00:59:14,640 Speaker 1: and you know, and then we talk about it, and 1136 00:59:14,680 --> 00:59:17,440 Speaker 1: to me, they seem like they're thinking about every angle 1137 00:59:17,520 --> 00:59:20,800 Speaker 1: of everything. And I guess as a parent, the thing 1138 00:59:20,880 --> 00:59:26,080 Speaker 1: I've learned to do is there's all these opportunities. They're 1139 00:59:26,200 --> 00:59:30,320 Speaker 1: so tempting to teach your kids something. Always they're always 1140 00:59:30,400 --> 00:59:33,000 Speaker 1: right in front of you. I feel like my life 1141 00:59:33,040 --> 00:59:35,240 Speaker 1: revolves around atheism. It doesn't. But this happens to be 1142 00:59:35,280 --> 00:59:37,400 Speaker 1: two in a row stories. We have really close friends. 1143 00:59:37,480 --> 00:59:39,520 Speaker 1: They're very Christian. I love it for them. I'm very 1144 00:59:39,560 --> 00:59:42,880 Speaker 1: supportive of it. There are children played together their children. 1145 00:59:43,400 --> 00:59:46,280 Speaker 1: My daughter was over there and they prayed before dinner, 1146 00:59:46,720 --> 00:59:50,600 Speaker 1: and she felt really uncomfortable. She felt nervous, She didn't 1147 00:59:50,640 --> 00:59:52,200 Speaker 1: know what to do. They all knew what to do. 1148 00:59:52,320 --> 00:59:55,200 Speaker 1: She felt out of sorts. She then got nervous that 1149 00:59:55,720 --> 00:59:58,040 Speaker 1: the one child was going to not like her because 1150 00:59:58,080 --> 01:00:00,440 Speaker 1: she didn't believe the same way. And i' this on 1151 01:00:00,440 --> 01:00:03,240 Speaker 1: a ride home, and MY first thought is to go, well, 1152 01:00:03,240 --> 01:00:06,800 Speaker 1: look at Amy and Ryan and Chris. Your mom and 1153 01:00:06,840 --> 01:00:09,440 Speaker 1: I were best friends and we think differently, right, I 1154 01:00:09,480 --> 01:00:11,640 Speaker 1: want to like educate her through this. And then I 1155 01:00:11,760 --> 01:00:13,880 Speaker 1: stopped and I just go like, oh my god, I 1156 01:00:13,920 --> 01:00:17,160 Speaker 1: remember that so much, Lincoln, Oh my god, I remember that. Yeah, 1157 01:00:17,160 --> 01:00:18,520 Speaker 1: I would be at my friend and I just start 1158 01:00:19,400 --> 01:00:22,760 Speaker 1: listing these times that I was in that situation, how 1159 01:00:22,800 --> 01:00:25,040 Speaker 1: awkward I felt. And then I felt like Judge and 1160 01:00:25,120 --> 01:00:27,240 Speaker 1: I was nervous. They thought I was going to hell 1161 01:00:27,320 --> 01:00:31,040 Speaker 1: and all these things. And I honestly think in that 1162 01:00:31,120 --> 01:00:34,120 Speaker 1: moment that that is the decision I'm proud of about. 1163 01:00:34,120 --> 01:00:36,160 Speaker 1: It's like, I don't need to teach her this. I 1164 01:00:36,280 --> 01:00:40,400 Speaker 1: need her to see this functional human being has gone 1165 01:00:40,400 --> 01:00:42,960 Speaker 1: through all the things she's gone through. Yes, that's all 1166 01:00:43,000 --> 01:00:45,160 Speaker 1: I gotta do is make her not feel alone in 1167 01:00:45,240 --> 01:00:48,600 Speaker 1: these experiences, because that will somehow make her confident. Oh, 1168 01:00:48,680 --> 01:00:51,120 Speaker 1: but it'll all work out. Yeah, So I've tried. My 1169 01:00:51,200 --> 01:00:54,040 Speaker 1: heart is to shift from the lesson and more just 1170 01:00:54,240 --> 01:00:56,840 Speaker 1: sharing the experience with her. Yeah, I love that. I'm 1171 01:00:56,880 --> 01:00:58,320 Speaker 1: so glad you shad that. My wife and I don't 1172 01:00:58,720 --> 01:01:01,760 Speaker 1: have kids yet, so definitely definitely part of the place. 1173 01:01:02,000 --> 01:01:04,520 Speaker 1: So tempting. You want to shortcut them, I do. I 1174 01:01:04,600 --> 01:01:07,760 Speaker 1: want to shortcut them to a fourth step in AAA. 1175 01:01:07,840 --> 01:01:10,120 Speaker 1: This can really you can figure out your fears with 1176 01:01:10,200 --> 01:01:13,200 Speaker 1: this thing. Go. My mom did with me. She just 1177 01:01:13,280 --> 01:01:15,720 Speaker 1: she would always relate to me, and that just I liked. 1178 01:01:16,520 --> 01:01:19,360 Speaker 1: I like not feeling alone in my experience the most. Yeah, 1179 01:01:19,400 --> 01:01:21,439 Speaker 1: they need to be able to create a twelve step 1180 01:01:21,520 --> 01:01:24,640 Speaker 1: kids version. Yall believe me, they'll get it. They're gonna 1181 01:01:24,640 --> 01:01:28,240 Speaker 1: get it through Osmoses yea. And yeah, and I think 1182 01:01:28,280 --> 01:01:30,200 Speaker 1: you do that publicly too, right, Like I know that 1183 01:01:30,320 --> 01:01:33,640 Speaker 1: last year you you know you you spoke about your 1184 01:01:33,680 --> 01:01:36,240 Speaker 1: relapse and you were very vulnerable about it and you're 1185 01:01:36,280 --> 01:01:38,919 Speaker 1: open about it, and I want to I mean, I guess, 1186 01:01:38,960 --> 01:01:40,640 Speaker 1: are you kids at an age yet where they're able 1187 01:01:40,680 --> 01:01:44,400 Speaker 1: to understand your public profile and external profile are not? Really? 1188 01:01:44,560 --> 01:01:47,520 Speaker 1: They don't kind of understand that, Like, are you dad 1189 01:01:47,560 --> 01:01:50,160 Speaker 1: and this or is it just are you dad? And 1190 01:01:50,160 --> 01:01:52,400 Speaker 1: and how does that affect them? You know what's really 1191 01:01:52,400 --> 01:01:54,680 Speaker 1: funny is, well, first of all, they know I'm in 1192 01:01:54,760 --> 01:01:57,960 Speaker 1: AA like that I leave in the evenings certain days 1193 01:01:57,960 --> 01:02:00,400 Speaker 1: of the week, and where are you going? I'm one? Hey, 1194 01:02:00,440 --> 01:02:03,360 Speaker 1: what's that? Oh? I'm an alcoholic? What's that? Oh? If 1195 01:02:03,400 --> 01:02:08,000 Speaker 1: I start drinking, watch out, can't stop. I'm ninth generation alcoholic. 1196 01:02:08,040 --> 01:02:11,480 Speaker 1: You know, they know the whole skinny. They know I relapsed. 1197 01:02:11,600 --> 01:02:14,160 Speaker 1: But what's interesting is the question you're asking is the 1198 01:02:14,320 --> 01:02:19,800 Speaker 1: question I thought about NonStop because my experience was my 1199 01:02:19,880 --> 01:02:23,720 Speaker 1: parents weren't famous. My parents also didn't have money. So 1200 01:02:23,920 --> 01:02:25,960 Speaker 1: my obsessions are like, like what is this doing to them? 1201 01:02:25,960 --> 01:02:29,240 Speaker 1: Blah blah blah. And the truth is, and I'm seeing it, 1202 01:02:29,360 --> 01:02:33,040 Speaker 1: is like it's their childhood. There's no such thing like 1203 01:02:33,400 --> 01:02:36,800 Speaker 1: we are inclined to think of their experience relative to 1204 01:02:36,880 --> 01:02:41,640 Speaker 1: another kids, but that's almost irrelevant. Their experience is relative 1205 01:02:41,680 --> 01:02:44,600 Speaker 1: to their own experience and to their maybe sisters experience. 1206 01:02:45,160 --> 01:02:48,800 Speaker 1: The notion that they're feeling something different because for me, 1207 01:02:48,840 --> 01:02:51,600 Speaker 1: when I imagine what being the child of famous people 1208 01:02:51,840 --> 01:02:55,480 Speaker 1: would have been like, is a very different feeling definitely yea, 1209 01:02:55,880 --> 01:02:59,680 Speaker 1: but there is no difference to them. Yeah, so it's like, yeah, 1210 01:02:59,720 --> 01:03:02,320 Speaker 1: some times we're driving and mom's on a billboard, they're 1211 01:03:02,320 --> 01:03:05,000 Speaker 1: not impressed with mom. Mom's mom who didn't let them 1212 01:03:05,000 --> 01:03:08,400 Speaker 1: stay up till ten last night. It doesn't matter. The 1213 01:03:08,440 --> 01:03:12,920 Speaker 1: trickier part is in public. I'm very protective of them. 1214 01:03:12,960 --> 01:03:14,720 Speaker 1: So if you meet me and I'm by myself, I'm 1215 01:03:14,760 --> 01:03:16,800 Speaker 1: a pretty nice guy. If you meet me and I'm 1216 01:03:16,840 --> 01:03:18,880 Speaker 1: out with my kids, it's not your time. It's my 1217 01:03:18,920 --> 01:03:21,280 Speaker 1: kid's time. And I'll tell you that it's not time 1218 01:03:21,280 --> 01:03:22,600 Speaker 1: to take a picture with me, it's not time to 1219 01:03:22,640 --> 01:03:24,480 Speaker 1: talk to me about a movie or about a podcast. 1220 01:03:24,560 --> 01:03:26,919 Speaker 1: It is my children's time right now, and that's who's 1221 01:03:26,960 --> 01:03:30,840 Speaker 1: time it is. So I don't mind having a boundary 1222 01:03:30,840 --> 01:03:32,640 Speaker 1: when it's for them. I have a harder time having 1223 01:03:32,680 --> 01:03:36,200 Speaker 1: a boundary for myself. And I actually enjoy often talking 1224 01:03:36,200 --> 01:03:38,280 Speaker 1: to people who listen to the podcasts or whatnot. But 1225 01:03:39,720 --> 01:03:42,400 Speaker 1: I have to explain that to them, right. They can't 1226 01:03:42,440 --> 01:03:47,120 Speaker 1: just see me be very firm with people when they 1227 01:03:47,200 --> 01:03:51,160 Speaker 1: know me to be kind and open hearted to people 1228 01:03:51,160 --> 01:03:54,000 Speaker 1: who don't want something. This goes back to the intention. Yeah. Yeah, 1229 01:03:54,160 --> 01:03:56,760 Speaker 1: so if we're bumping into strangers at a restaurant. We're 1230 01:03:56,800 --> 01:03:58,920 Speaker 1: both ordered the steak and it's delicious, and I lean 1231 01:03:58,960 --> 01:04:00,960 Speaker 1: over and go, my god, these they can cook a 1232 01:04:00,960 --> 01:04:03,840 Speaker 1: t bone here, huh. Like there's that version of dad, 1233 01:04:04,120 --> 01:04:05,880 Speaker 1: and then there's the version at the airport where it's 1234 01:04:05,920 --> 01:04:08,800 Speaker 1: like no, thank you, thank you, Like if I can 1235 01:04:08,840 --> 01:04:11,000 Speaker 1: see a camera coming out, it's like, you cannot photograph 1236 01:04:11,080 --> 01:04:13,320 Speaker 1: my kids. So I have to then tell them I'm 1237 01:04:13,400 --> 01:04:16,560 Speaker 1: very protective of you. This is why I don't want 1238 01:04:16,600 --> 01:04:19,120 Speaker 1: your time to be robbed with your dad. I'm gonna 1239 01:04:19,120 --> 01:04:21,520 Speaker 1: always protect that. I don't want pictures of you on 1240 01:04:21,520 --> 01:04:22,920 Speaker 1: the internet. I don't want people to know what you 1241 01:04:22,920 --> 01:04:24,640 Speaker 1: look like and go to your school, like I don't 1242 01:04:24,640 --> 01:04:27,720 Speaker 1: want this is what's happening. So I just I assume, 1243 01:04:27,960 --> 01:04:31,800 Speaker 1: rightly or wrongly, that they can comprehend everything, and I 1244 01:04:31,880 --> 01:04:34,320 Speaker 1: just tell them. I tell them exactly what's happening in 1245 01:04:34,360 --> 01:04:37,440 Speaker 1: the world when they're in it. Again from my baggage, 1246 01:04:37,560 --> 01:04:41,120 Speaker 1: my number one issue is being deceived. I hate being deceived. 1247 01:04:41,120 --> 01:04:42,720 Speaker 1: I hate people who try to deceive me. It's my 1248 01:04:42,840 --> 01:04:45,680 Speaker 1: number one thing. I hate it. So I just my 1249 01:04:45,720 --> 01:04:49,200 Speaker 1: only commitment is I'm never deceiving my kids. The second 1250 01:04:49,200 --> 01:04:53,120 Speaker 1: thing said, wait, how does Santa Claus get in our chimney? 1251 01:04:53,240 --> 01:04:56,439 Speaker 1: And how's he getting? You said, there's Billy, how many 1252 01:04:56,840 --> 01:04:59,760 Speaker 1: seven billion? He's going to seven billion people? Well, no, 1253 01:04:59,840 --> 01:05:02,160 Speaker 1: he's not going to India because they don't believe in Santa. 1254 01:05:02,200 --> 01:05:04,960 Speaker 1: But why wouldn't you go? And I go, I'm not 1255 01:05:05,000 --> 01:05:07,520 Speaker 1: gonna do this to you. I'm not gonna I'm not 1256 01:05:07,600 --> 01:05:09,840 Speaker 1: gonna water down the best part of your brain, which 1257 01:05:09,880 --> 01:05:12,120 Speaker 1: is the critical thinking side, which is saying this does 1258 01:05:12,160 --> 01:05:17,200 Speaker 1: not add up. I'm not gonna do it. That that's brilliant. 1259 01:05:17,200 --> 01:05:19,520 Speaker 1: I love that. I'm passionately just taking notes. This is 1260 01:05:19,520 --> 01:05:22,520 Speaker 1: for me, future me. This is genuinely for future me 1261 01:05:22,680 --> 01:05:24,480 Speaker 1: to write some of these notes down. And I'm not 1262 01:05:24,520 --> 01:05:27,360 Speaker 1: I'm not joking. I mean teach them to do something scary. 1263 01:05:27,680 --> 01:05:29,880 Speaker 1: That's my other I believe in that. Like, so, both 1264 01:05:29,960 --> 01:05:32,800 Speaker 1: my kids ride dirt bikes. They're little girls. My eight 1265 01:05:32,880 --> 01:05:35,680 Speaker 1: year old just got a very large dirt bike and 1266 01:05:35,760 --> 01:05:39,480 Speaker 1: we just went riding. And like you can tell your 1267 01:05:39,560 --> 01:05:42,880 Speaker 1: kids they're capable of anything, you have to give them 1268 01:05:42,880 --> 01:05:46,840 Speaker 1: an opportunity to figure out they're capable of anything. You know, 1269 01:05:46,920 --> 01:05:49,040 Speaker 1: you telling your kid, you could be president one day. 1270 01:05:50,040 --> 01:05:52,920 Speaker 1: Why what have they done to demonstrate that give them 1271 01:05:52,920 --> 01:05:56,600 Speaker 1: an opportunity to be presidential? I am so glad you 1272 01:05:56,600 --> 01:05:58,120 Speaker 1: said that. I literally was. I was on the front 1273 01:05:58,160 --> 01:06:02,120 Speaker 1: to my friend before we before we connected, and I 1274 01:06:02,240 --> 01:06:04,040 Speaker 1: was saying the same. I was like, he's got a 1275 01:06:04,040 --> 01:06:05,960 Speaker 1: ten year old, and I was saying, and I don't 1276 01:06:06,000 --> 01:06:07,840 Speaker 1: know why I thought of cold plunges, but I did, 1277 01:06:07,840 --> 01:06:09,520 Speaker 1: And I was like, you should take your kid cold plunges. 1278 01:06:09,640 --> 01:06:11,320 Speaker 1: Like I was like, you know, he needs to feel 1279 01:06:11,360 --> 01:06:14,640 Speaker 1: like he's achieved something, he's conquered something. Because we were 1280 01:06:14,640 --> 01:06:18,000 Speaker 1: talking about this something that's really fascinated me for a 1281 01:06:18,000 --> 01:06:20,200 Speaker 1: long time as I've been trying to at least read, 1282 01:06:20,360 --> 01:06:22,800 Speaker 1: as you were saying, read about children and kids and 1283 01:06:22,920 --> 01:06:26,800 Speaker 1: even just humans. But the idea of fragility and how 1284 01:06:26,880 --> 01:06:32,480 Speaker 1: like overprotecting someone's experience leads to fragility not strength. And 1285 01:06:32,920 --> 01:06:36,200 Speaker 1: I've found that word fragility and fragile so powerful, even 1286 01:06:36,240 --> 01:06:39,520 Speaker 1: more than weakness or lack of strength or whatever. Like 1287 01:06:39,600 --> 01:06:43,040 Speaker 1: fragility is really interesting because you go, wait a minute, 1288 01:06:43,200 --> 01:06:46,880 Speaker 1: we thought that if we mollycoded and protected and enforced 1289 01:06:47,000 --> 01:06:50,960 Speaker 1: boundaries and barriers that were perfect like laser fields around 1290 01:06:50,960 --> 01:06:54,160 Speaker 1: our kids or around ourselves. That then life would be good. 1291 01:06:54,600 --> 01:06:58,000 Speaker 1: I guess how do you deal with that poking of 1292 01:06:58,200 --> 01:07:00,520 Speaker 1: deceit as you said that was what you hate, as 1293 01:07:00,600 --> 01:07:05,040 Speaker 1: deceit pokes through that uncomfortable barrier that you have with it. 1294 01:07:06,160 --> 01:07:08,320 Speaker 1: How have you learned to be able to navigate to 1295 01:07:08,840 --> 01:07:11,120 Speaker 1: hell in a healthy way? Well, first off, I just 1296 01:07:11,120 --> 01:07:13,720 Speaker 1: think it's hilarious you said that because we've got our daughters. 1297 01:07:14,120 --> 01:07:17,560 Speaker 1: They do coal plunges. Oh nice. Yeah. And by the way, 1298 01:07:17,840 --> 01:07:19,840 Speaker 1: not because we told them too, because we model it. 1299 01:07:19,840 --> 01:07:21,760 Speaker 1: It's like they see mom and dad get out of 1300 01:07:21,800 --> 01:07:24,400 Speaker 1: the hot tub and go make themselves miserable for ten minutes. 1301 01:07:24,480 --> 01:07:27,200 Speaker 1: They just get curious and then it becomes competitive who's 1302 01:07:27,200 --> 01:07:29,120 Speaker 1: gonna do it, who's afraid to do it? And then 1303 01:07:29,200 --> 01:07:31,080 Speaker 1: I look and I'm like, my god, these little girls 1304 01:07:31,120 --> 01:07:36,479 Speaker 1: do coal plunges. I think often you're you're you're trying 1305 01:07:36,480 --> 01:07:38,560 Speaker 1: to protect. Let me say this, I had a great 1306 01:07:38,600 --> 01:07:40,960 Speaker 1: head start. One. I'm six and a half years older 1307 01:07:40,960 --> 01:07:45,280 Speaker 1: than my sister. My mom worked nights. I change diapers 1308 01:07:45,480 --> 01:07:49,080 Speaker 1: with the the safety pins and cloth diapers at six 1309 01:07:49,120 --> 01:07:51,880 Speaker 1: and a half years old. So somehow this six and 1310 01:07:51,920 --> 01:07:53,640 Speaker 1: a half year old, did quite a bit of child 1311 01:07:53,680 --> 01:07:58,920 Speaker 1: rearing and she's alive. Secondly, I'm majored in anthropology. I'd 1312 01:07:58,920 --> 01:08:01,560 Speaker 1: watch all these amazing documentaries. One of them I remember 1313 01:08:01,600 --> 01:08:05,600 Speaker 1: from Papua New Guinea. All the kids that are below 1314 01:08:05,840 --> 01:08:10,520 Speaker 1: six who can't be useful in digging up yams are 1315 01:08:10,680 --> 01:08:13,360 Speaker 1: on their own in the jungle. I'm telling you, they 1316 01:08:13,400 --> 01:08:16,439 Speaker 1: are on their own. There are two year olds falling 1317 01:08:16,439 --> 01:08:19,520 Speaker 1: out of trees. There's a six year old in charge, 1318 01:08:19,880 --> 01:08:22,960 Speaker 1: and they live. So I just walked into it with like, 1319 01:08:23,120 --> 01:08:27,639 Speaker 1: these little things are very resilient. I just I've seen 1320 01:08:27,920 --> 01:08:30,479 Speaker 1: firsthand they're pretty resilient. So I think I started with 1321 01:08:30,520 --> 01:08:35,080 Speaker 1: a little more confidence in that way. But again, I 1322 01:08:35,240 --> 01:08:40,040 Speaker 1: just think about what moment in time are you delaying 1323 01:08:40,040 --> 01:08:43,360 Speaker 1: this too? So I'm going to handle everything for them? Now? 1324 01:08:44,600 --> 01:08:48,840 Speaker 1: When is it their turn? Because if if eighteens their 1325 01:08:48,960 --> 01:08:52,200 Speaker 1: turn and you send them out into the world, no 1326 01:08:52,280 --> 01:08:54,160 Speaker 1: one in the world's as nice as I am for them, 1327 01:08:54,479 --> 01:08:57,559 Speaker 1: So why is that going to be the optimum time? 1328 01:08:58,040 --> 01:09:01,599 Speaker 1: To fail, to struggle, to be frustrated, to not get help. 1329 01:09:02,160 --> 01:09:04,919 Speaker 1: I regularly won't help them. It seems like maybe cruelty, 1330 01:09:04,960 --> 01:09:06,360 Speaker 1: and I'll be like, if you want it bad enough, 1331 01:09:06,400 --> 01:09:08,960 Speaker 1: you'll figure out how to do it. But I want 1332 01:09:09,000 --> 01:09:13,519 Speaker 1: competent kids. That's what I want, because I can't go 1333 01:09:13,680 --> 01:09:16,720 Speaker 1: with them everywhere for the rest of their lives to 1334 01:09:17,520 --> 01:09:21,000 Speaker 1: mitigate every conflict. I can't do it. Yeah, even though 1335 01:09:21,040 --> 01:09:24,400 Speaker 1: you'd like to, I would love to. It's my impulse. Yeah, 1336 01:09:24,720 --> 01:09:26,479 Speaker 1: every time they're reaching for something, I want to go 1337 01:09:26,520 --> 01:09:28,479 Speaker 1: grab it. I'm tall. Yeah, it's like one of my 1338 01:09:28,520 --> 01:09:31,360 Speaker 1: only assets in the house. But no, they got to 1339 01:09:31,400 --> 01:09:34,599 Speaker 1: get a stool, go get something for crying out, can 1340 01:09:34,720 --> 01:09:38,720 Speaker 1: use tools and you can't. And again, they're giving themselves 1341 01:09:38,760 --> 01:09:41,160 Speaker 1: their own confidence. You're not giving it to them. You're 1342 01:09:41,200 --> 01:09:44,960 Speaker 1: not saying, oh, you're so smart, you're so competent. Why 1343 01:09:45,000 --> 01:09:48,040 Speaker 1: are you so competent? But they give it to themselves. 1344 01:09:48,280 --> 01:09:51,160 Speaker 1: And that you just having that really spoke to me 1345 01:09:51,200 --> 01:09:54,719 Speaker 1: because I think so many kids who or and obviously 1346 01:09:54,760 --> 01:09:58,120 Speaker 1: as adults now who heard that, they actually felt that 1347 01:09:58,200 --> 01:10:01,280 Speaker 1: was something they had to live up to as expectation 1348 01:10:01,560 --> 01:10:04,600 Speaker 1: or an obligation. That it's like, you're so smart, so 1349 01:10:04,640 --> 01:10:09,080 Speaker 1: now they had to present zero practice. Yeah exactly, exactly 1350 01:10:09,120 --> 01:10:12,519 Speaker 1: and so totally And I love that you kept saying 1351 01:10:12,520 --> 01:10:15,280 Speaker 1: it's something you have to give to yourself, because that's 1352 01:10:15,320 --> 01:10:19,720 Speaker 1: become something that is whenever I talk about that, I 1353 01:10:20,160 --> 01:10:28,519 Speaker 1: really strongly believe that that validation compliments awareness, understanding people 1354 01:10:28,560 --> 01:10:31,760 Speaker 1: can help to a certain degree, but ultimately it needs 1355 01:10:31,800 --> 01:10:35,160 Speaker 1: to come from ourselves. I saw you going about to 1356 01:10:35,200 --> 01:10:36,599 Speaker 1: say something. I want to let you in a way 1357 01:10:36,600 --> 01:10:39,599 Speaker 1: of digital I was just gonna say it both are true. 1358 01:10:39,880 --> 01:10:44,759 Speaker 1: External validation works, yeah, but it's finite. Yes, So either 1359 01:10:44,920 --> 01:10:48,080 Speaker 1: you have to be on the treadmill of constantly wowing 1360 01:10:48,160 --> 01:10:52,480 Speaker 1: everyone to get the external validation, or you can internally 1361 01:10:52,560 --> 01:10:56,160 Speaker 1: validate yourself and that can be permanent or that can 1362 01:10:56,240 --> 01:10:58,760 Speaker 1: be stable. Yeah. I'm fascinating to ask you this because 1363 01:10:58,760 --> 01:11:02,040 Speaker 1: I think you'll have a really refreshed perspective. How because 1364 01:11:02,040 --> 01:11:05,280 Speaker 1: you brought this word up earlier, how have you balanced 1365 01:11:05,320 --> 01:11:08,240 Speaker 1: self validation and humility and where did they fit in 1366 01:11:08,360 --> 01:11:11,920 Speaker 1: for you? I'm not saying they're opposites. I'm just wondering 1367 01:11:11,960 --> 01:11:16,760 Speaker 1: how both live in a healthy way for you, because 1368 01:11:17,000 --> 01:11:20,080 Speaker 1: I think I've you know, I think we're living and 1369 01:11:20,360 --> 01:11:22,720 Speaker 1: I'm interested because of where we've gone. I think we 1370 01:11:22,800 --> 01:11:24,400 Speaker 1: live in a culture right now that's very much like 1371 01:11:24,479 --> 01:11:26,360 Speaker 1: validate the people you love and value, you know, like 1372 01:11:26,439 --> 01:11:28,360 Speaker 1: give tell them that they're smart, and tell them that 1373 01:11:28,360 --> 01:11:30,960 Speaker 1: they're beautiful. And then I come from a spiritual culture 1374 01:11:31,040 --> 01:11:38,559 Speaker 1: where humility was considered the most beautiful quality a human 1375 01:11:38,600 --> 01:11:41,639 Speaker 1: could have, like it was the apex virtue or something correct, 1376 01:11:41,760 --> 01:11:45,640 Speaker 1: but often it led to low self esteem as a 1377 01:11:45,680 --> 01:11:49,800 Speaker 1: misunderstanding of humility, and it led to a you know, 1378 01:11:50,320 --> 01:11:55,080 Speaker 1: a self self deprecating and self harmful behavior. So I 1379 01:11:55,120 --> 01:11:57,160 Speaker 1: just want to hear your thoughts. Yeah, well it's an 1380 01:11:57,160 --> 01:12:00,920 Speaker 1: incomplete word right. Well, first and foremost of an older 1381 01:12:00,960 --> 01:12:03,240 Speaker 1: friend of mine in the program who often says it's 1382 01:12:03,280 --> 01:12:08,479 Speaker 1: really important to distinguish between humility and humiliation, So like, 1383 01:12:08,560 --> 01:12:12,200 Speaker 1: those aren't the same thing beautiful. And I also think 1384 01:12:13,080 --> 01:12:17,320 Speaker 1: we all observe a ton of faue humility. Yeah, and 1385 01:12:17,439 --> 01:12:19,880 Speaker 1: I'm prone to do it. I'll start feeling guilty that 1386 01:12:20,160 --> 01:12:22,760 Speaker 1: I look, I've been luckier than most people, and I 1387 01:12:22,840 --> 01:12:25,360 Speaker 1: have some guilt about that. I grew up with people 1388 01:12:25,360 --> 01:12:29,040 Speaker 1: who didn't get so lucky. I feel I have guilts 1389 01:12:29,080 --> 01:12:32,080 Speaker 1: about that, so there can be a faue humility as well. 1390 01:12:32,120 --> 01:12:36,519 Speaker 1: But I think the true humility for me is being 1391 01:12:36,600 --> 01:12:40,160 Speaker 1: honest about my life, which again is a skill I 1392 01:12:40,240 --> 01:12:44,680 Speaker 1: learned in the twelve step program. If I look at 1393 01:12:44,760 --> 01:12:47,160 Speaker 1: my life and I look at the times I got 1394 01:12:47,200 --> 01:12:50,400 Speaker 1: exactly what I wanted and what it led to, versus 1395 01:12:50,439 --> 01:12:52,679 Speaker 1: the times I got the opposite of what I wanted 1396 01:12:52,920 --> 01:12:55,519 Speaker 1: and what it led to, it would not take a 1397 01:12:55,680 --> 01:12:58,479 Speaker 1: smart person to see the pattern that I'm almost one 1398 01:12:58,560 --> 01:13:03,440 Speaker 1: hundred percent wrong, which is really bothering. Like I'm a podcaster, 1399 01:13:03,640 --> 01:13:06,120 Speaker 1: because I spent two and a half years of my 1400 01:13:06,160 --> 01:13:08,960 Speaker 1: life directing the movie Chips and it didn't do well financially. 1401 01:13:09,000 --> 01:13:11,320 Speaker 1: I didn't know what to do, so I did not 1402 01:13:11,400 --> 01:13:13,479 Speaker 1: get the outcome I wanted. It led to the thing 1403 01:13:13,520 --> 01:13:18,439 Speaker 1: I'm happiest doing, most proud of ever doing. So there 1404 01:13:18,479 --> 01:13:20,639 Speaker 1: you go. If you would ask X what should happen? 1405 01:13:20,680 --> 01:13:22,040 Speaker 1: I would say, oh, that things should have made two 1406 01:13:22,080 --> 01:13:23,920 Speaker 1: hundred million dollars and I should have made three more, 1407 01:13:23,960 --> 01:13:26,479 Speaker 1: and I should have ultimately made twenty five million dollars 1408 01:13:26,560 --> 01:13:30,160 Speaker 1: to make the third one. That would have been the path. Right, Yeah, 1409 01:13:30,400 --> 01:13:32,960 Speaker 1: it wouldn't have been as good of a path. So 1410 01:13:33,200 --> 01:13:38,360 Speaker 1: I know I'm wrong. I'm consistently wrong. So I don't 1411 01:13:38,360 --> 01:13:42,479 Speaker 1: have a ton of confidence in my own you know, 1412 01:13:42,680 --> 01:13:45,040 Speaker 1: even though I am I tend to be arrogant, and 1413 01:13:45,160 --> 01:13:48,599 Speaker 1: I have an opinion on everything, but I also know 1414 01:13:48,680 --> 01:13:52,400 Speaker 1: that I'm also likely to have a different opinion. Yeah, 1415 01:13:52,880 --> 01:13:55,200 Speaker 1: I just know this. I've changed my opinion a bazillion 1416 01:13:55,280 --> 01:13:58,320 Speaker 1: times over the years. So I just I try, at 1417 01:13:58,400 --> 01:14:03,479 Speaker 1: least now, to I propose things, I ask questions. I don't. 1418 01:14:03,880 --> 01:14:06,840 Speaker 1: I try to avoid being definitive about it. I just 1419 01:14:07,360 --> 01:14:11,080 Speaker 1: I wonder aloud, and then often I wonder aloud with 1420 01:14:11,120 --> 01:14:14,320 Speaker 1: another person wondering aloud, and we we we somehow navigate 1421 01:14:14,400 --> 01:14:18,800 Speaker 1: towards something that feels truer. Yeah. I love that. It's 1422 01:14:18,840 --> 01:14:23,240 Speaker 1: just you, I mean Hawkins. You think you're smartest, Stephen Hawkins. 1423 01:14:23,240 --> 01:14:26,520 Speaker 1: Like that guy's been disproven five times by new technology, 1424 01:14:26,680 --> 01:14:28,840 Speaker 1: Like you can't. Can you be the toughest guy in 1425 01:14:28,880 --> 01:14:31,599 Speaker 1: the world. You can't. Mike Tyson got beat eventually. Yeah, 1426 01:14:32,120 --> 01:14:37,040 Speaker 1: everyone gets beat. Everyone's wrong. Yeah, it's an untenable position 1427 01:14:37,080 --> 01:14:40,120 Speaker 1: to try to take. Yeah, maybe it's my vanity. I'd 1428 01:14:40,160 --> 01:14:42,559 Speaker 1: be too embarrassed to say I know, because I'm sure 1429 01:14:42,560 --> 01:14:46,240 Speaker 1: to be proven wrong publicly. Yeah. No, absolutely, time Time 1430 01:14:46,320 --> 01:14:49,840 Speaker 1: is undefeated. And then we hear about timeless realms and 1431 01:14:49,880 --> 01:14:52,040 Speaker 1: then you go, oh, wait, times defeat too, and so 1432 01:14:52,640 --> 01:14:55,120 Speaker 1: you know, yeah, yeah, black holes are supposed to end 1433 01:14:55,160 --> 01:14:59,280 Speaker 1: time exactly exactly said practically, But Dex, you've You've been 1434 01:14:59,320 --> 01:15:02,160 Speaker 1: so generous with your time. I've had so much fun 1435 01:15:02,240 --> 01:15:05,599 Speaker 1: with you. Um, this has been a game. This has 1436 01:15:05,640 --> 01:15:10,120 Speaker 1: been a very untraditional episode of on purpose for many reasons. 1437 01:15:10,240 --> 01:15:13,160 Speaker 1: And and I that has very much been led by 1438 01:15:13,240 --> 01:15:16,600 Speaker 1: you and who you are and how you approach these conversations. 1439 01:15:16,600 --> 01:15:20,519 Speaker 1: And I really value that because I love I love 1440 01:15:20,600 --> 01:15:23,800 Speaker 1: being in a and I wouldn't call this uncomfortable because 1441 01:15:23,880 --> 01:15:26,679 Speaker 1: nothing about the conversation was uncomfortable, But I love being 1442 01:15:26,680 --> 01:15:30,919 Speaker 1: in a in a new, refreshing, like U sparky environment, 1443 01:15:30,960 --> 01:15:33,400 Speaker 1: and that's kind of how this has felt. So I 1444 01:15:33,439 --> 01:15:35,160 Speaker 1: know you're landing the plane. But I have to add 1445 01:15:35,160 --> 01:15:37,400 Speaker 1: one thing on that topic, which is I'm sure you're 1446 01:15:37,439 --> 01:15:39,800 Speaker 1: like me, which is I prepare so if I am 1447 01:15:39,840 --> 01:15:41,760 Speaker 1: going to interview someone, I know as much as I 1448 01:15:41,800 --> 01:15:44,360 Speaker 1: can know about them. But what I've learned to do 1449 01:15:44,439 --> 01:15:47,720 Speaker 1: in the thing I've come to love is I'll ask 1450 01:15:47,760 --> 01:15:50,120 Speaker 1: them how their drive over here was. That's not on 1451 01:15:50,160 --> 01:15:52,960 Speaker 1: the list. Yeah, and that leads to nine things that 1452 01:15:53,120 --> 01:15:56,599 Speaker 1: I wasn't trying to steer. Yeah, and then I enter 1453 01:15:56,680 --> 01:15:59,439 Speaker 1: a state of flow. And really I've figured out I'm 1454 01:15:59,479 --> 01:16:01,800 Speaker 1: only in this for the state of flow. Yes, I 1455 01:16:02,040 --> 01:16:04,800 Speaker 1: couldn't agree with you more. And that's that is much 1456 01:16:04,840 --> 01:16:06,400 Speaker 1: better explain than what I was trying to say. So 1457 01:16:06,439 --> 01:16:09,360 Speaker 1: we will take your version that that is. That's exactly yeah, 1458 01:16:09,439 --> 01:16:12,320 Speaker 1: you know, I yeah, we always prepare the same thing, 1459 01:16:12,400 --> 01:16:16,439 Speaker 1: but I try to get lost. I like getting lost. 1460 01:16:16,560 --> 01:16:19,400 Speaker 1: I think that's you know, and and getting lost is 1461 01:16:19,439 --> 01:16:22,439 Speaker 1: so fun because that's where, yeah, that's where you find 1462 01:16:22,479 --> 01:16:25,840 Speaker 1: stuff that you never imagined. So I love that. I 1463 01:16:25,960 --> 01:16:28,760 Speaker 1: thank you. I uh. We end every episode of On 1464 01:16:28,840 --> 01:16:31,120 Speaker 1: Purpose with a final five. So these questions have to 1465 01:16:31,120 --> 01:16:35,040 Speaker 1: be answered in one word to one sentence maximum um 1466 01:16:35,439 --> 01:16:39,160 Speaker 1: and so Dak Shepherd, these are your final five. Are 1467 01:16:39,160 --> 01:16:41,280 Speaker 1: you ready? This is a This is a tight box 1468 01:16:41,400 --> 01:16:44,439 Speaker 1: for me to be. This is a tight box. Okay, 1469 01:16:44,520 --> 01:16:49,320 Speaker 1: as you just learned question question number one, what is 1470 01:16:49,400 --> 01:16:53,439 Speaker 1: the best advice you've ever received or heard? I thought 1471 01:16:53,479 --> 01:16:56,800 Speaker 1: someone had stolen an idea of mine, one of the 1472 01:16:56,800 --> 01:16:59,519 Speaker 1: sketches I had at this theater, and I thought it 1473 01:16:59,680 --> 01:17:01,519 Speaker 1: ended up bun Sarian live. And that may or may 1474 01:17:01,520 --> 01:17:03,719 Speaker 1: not be true. But someone pulled me aside and said, 1475 01:17:03,720 --> 01:17:06,559 Speaker 1: if if you think that's the only great idea you're 1476 01:17:06,560 --> 01:17:08,760 Speaker 1: ever going to have, you should fight to the end. 1477 01:17:09,160 --> 01:17:11,679 Speaker 1: But if you think you have unlimited great ideas, keep 1478 01:17:11,680 --> 01:17:14,080 Speaker 1: it moving. Oh that is so thank you. Thank you 1479 01:17:14,120 --> 01:17:16,479 Speaker 1: for taking the time to think about that, because that 1480 01:17:16,640 --> 01:17:18,920 Speaker 1: is refreshing and beautiful. We've not had that before. I 1481 01:17:18,960 --> 01:17:21,920 Speaker 1: love that. Second question, what is the worst advice you've 1482 01:17:21,920 --> 01:17:25,360 Speaker 1: ever received or heard? This is a hard one because 1483 01:17:25,360 --> 01:17:29,800 Speaker 1: I don't take advice. I guess, I guess, and it 1484 01:17:29,840 --> 01:17:31,640 Speaker 1: may not have been said to you. It may have, 1485 01:17:32,200 --> 01:17:34,800 Speaker 1: it may it may be something you heard someone tell you. 1486 01:17:34,920 --> 01:17:36,880 Speaker 1: It may And the reason why I like this is 1487 01:17:36,960 --> 01:17:41,200 Speaker 1: I really want a list of pieces of advice that, yeah, 1488 01:17:41,240 --> 01:17:45,000 Speaker 1: that that people can really clearly go, oh gosh, we 1489 01:17:45,080 --> 01:17:49,599 Speaker 1: hear this more often than we think, and so yeah, yeah, 1490 01:17:49,720 --> 01:17:51,519 Speaker 1: I guess I'm just gonna give my own what I 1491 01:17:51,520 --> 01:17:55,680 Speaker 1: said to myself at one point, which is sure, cocaine's addictive, 1492 01:17:55,920 --> 01:18:03,000 Speaker 1: but you're smarter than that. That's probably the advice I 1493 01:18:03,040 --> 01:18:05,839 Speaker 1: gave myself that to proved to be inaccurate, that's brilliant. 1494 01:18:05,960 --> 01:18:09,080 Speaker 1: I love that, all right. Question number three, how would 1495 01:18:09,080 --> 01:18:14,519 Speaker 1: you define your current purpose? My primary purpose is helping 1496 01:18:14,920 --> 01:18:20,679 Speaker 1: people who are dying of alcoholism find sobriety. That's amazing. 1497 01:18:21,200 --> 01:18:24,000 Speaker 1: I don't do good on my wife's great at trying 1498 01:18:24,000 --> 01:18:26,920 Speaker 1: to tackle enormous things. I feel very overwhelmed by them. 1499 01:18:27,479 --> 01:18:30,320 Speaker 1: An individual who calls I kind of know how to 1500 01:18:30,320 --> 01:18:32,160 Speaker 1: do that? Well, that that will save that for part 1501 01:18:32,160 --> 01:18:33,920 Speaker 1: two because I like that, we'll say that for another 1502 01:18:33,960 --> 01:18:36,439 Speaker 1: tim that that would be a whole beautiful conversation and 1503 01:18:36,479 --> 01:18:42,880 Speaker 1: of itself. Question number four, what is something you used 1504 01:18:42,920 --> 01:18:48,000 Speaker 1: to value but no longer have value for status? Amazing? 1505 01:18:48,439 --> 01:18:51,519 Speaker 1: And fifth and final question, I think you'll like this 1506 01:18:51,640 --> 01:18:54,559 Speaker 1: because it sits in with a lot of what we've discussed. 1507 01:18:54,600 --> 01:18:57,240 Speaker 1: But if you could create one law that everyone in 1508 01:18:57,240 --> 01:19:00,280 Speaker 1: the world had to follow, or one habit that's gonna 1509 01:19:00,280 --> 01:19:03,679 Speaker 1: have to practice every day, what would it be taking 1510 01:19:03,800 --> 01:19:10,200 Speaker 1: responsibility and apologizing when wrong? Beautiful? Thanks Shepherd, Dax, Thank 1511 01:19:10,240 --> 01:19:13,000 Speaker 1: you so much, my pleasure. This is a boy app 1512 01:19:13,080 --> 01:19:14,880 Speaker 1: Oh no, this is so much fun. Honestly, I had 1513 01:19:14,880 --> 01:19:17,000 Speaker 1: a great time, and knowing you had a great time 1514 01:19:17,080 --> 01:19:19,800 Speaker 1: makes me feel good too, because I've been looking forward 1515 01:19:19,840 --> 01:19:22,479 Speaker 1: to this one and like I said, huge fan of 1516 01:19:22,479 --> 01:19:24,720 Speaker 1: the podcast. I recommend everyone who's listening or watching to 1517 01:19:24,800 --> 01:19:28,479 Speaker 1: go or listening only sorry, listening everyone who's listening. To 1518 01:19:28,640 --> 01:19:32,040 Speaker 1: make sure you go and subscribe to arm Chair Expert 1519 01:19:32,040 --> 01:19:35,320 Speaker 1: if you don't already listen, and of course check out 1520 01:19:35,400 --> 01:19:38,559 Speaker 1: Dax on Instagram and tag us both on Twitter and 1521 01:19:38,600 --> 01:19:41,960 Speaker 1: Instagram on every platform where you're listening with what resonated 1522 01:19:42,000 --> 01:19:44,040 Speaker 1: with you, what connected with you. I love knowing what 1523 01:19:44,720 --> 01:19:47,400 Speaker 1: stayed with you. I think I find it fascinating to 1524 01:19:47,439 --> 01:19:51,600 Speaker 1: see what items you're going to apply, what you're questioning, 1525 01:19:51,680 --> 01:19:54,320 Speaker 1: what you're reflecting on, and I'm sure Dax would love 1526 01:19:54,360 --> 01:19:56,760 Speaker 1: to see as well. Dax, thank you for your time, 1527 01:19:56,840 --> 01:20:00,679 Speaker 1: your energy, your patients, the stillness you had answering those 1528 01:20:00,760 --> 01:20:04,320 Speaker 1: last five questions. I love how you were not pushed 1529 01:20:04,320 --> 01:20:07,599 Speaker 1: by the pressure. I really appreciate that. And again, I 1530 01:20:07,600 --> 01:20:09,760 Speaker 1: really hope we get together soon. Me too,