WEBVTT - Lenny Wilkens 0:00:07.480 --> 0:00:09.400 Hello, Hello, Lenny Wilkins. You out there. 0:00:10.160 --> 0:00:12.520 I'm here, Kenny, I'm here. I'm hearing you. 0:00:14.360 --> 0:00:19.680 Apologies and apologies as we start with Lenny Wilkins. We're 0:00:19.680 --> 0:00:23.840 only fifty six months behind the schedule of time, and 0:00:23.880 --> 0:00:25.840 so we appreciate your patience. 0:00:31.960 --> 0:00:35.000 You know. Usually it's me. I'm not even blaming you. 0:00:35.040 --> 0:00:36.000 I'm just blaming. 0:00:35.760 --> 0:00:40.000 Society for the problems we have, and it's making me 0:00:40.040 --> 0:00:42.960 as we reflect on your amazing life and career. 0:00:43.840 --> 0:00:45.279 I kind of missed the old days, man. 0:00:45.479 --> 0:00:48.640 I grew up south of Seattle and we had one 0:00:48.720 --> 0:00:51.960 phone with a cord. We had one TV that didn't 0:00:51.960 --> 0:00:53.920 even always work. My grandma would have to slap it 0:00:53.960 --> 0:00:57.240 to watch your programs. We have sonics, we had the newspaper. 0:00:57.800 --> 0:00:59.040 We were doing just fine. 0:00:59.360 --> 0:00:59.560 You know. 0:01:00.120 --> 0:01:05.720 Yeah, all this technology, all right, and that does change everything. 0:01:08.560 --> 0:01:11.440 Hey, before we talk about all the things I want 0:01:11.480 --> 0:01:14.400 to talk about with regard to basketball, primarily obviously, and 0:01:14.680 --> 0:01:18.679 all the other good works you've done, congratulations are in order. 0:01:18.800 --> 0:01:21.080 Am I correct? Sixty years of marriage? 0:01:21.280 --> 0:01:23.160 Did that just? Oh? 0:01:23.280 --> 0:01:28.400 That's correct, that's correct, Kenny. Yeah, yeah, it's My wife 0:01:28.440 --> 0:01:30.280 says it's because I was on the road half of 0:01:30.319 --> 0:01:34.240 the time. But yeah, sixty years. 0:01:34.920 --> 0:01:40.480 That's Maryland, right, yes, and that was in July, I believe. So, 0:01:41.200 --> 0:01:44.200 you know, instead of basketball, how about just life advice? 0:01:44.480 --> 0:01:47.080 How did you pull that off for sixty years? Not 0:01:47.080 --> 0:01:48.680 a lot of people have that accomplishment. 0:01:50.000 --> 0:01:53.280 No, no, But you know, one of the most important 0:01:53.280 --> 0:01:57.400 things is communication, and it's the same and just about 0:01:57.440 --> 0:02:01.600 everything you do, and unication is so important. You've got 0:02:01.600 --> 0:02:03.280 to talk to one another. You got to know what 0:02:03.320 --> 0:02:07.240 we're thinking, you know, and how we make each other 0:02:07.800 --> 0:02:12.480 happy stuff like that. And we've been blessed with three 0:02:12.520 --> 0:02:17.280 wonderful children. Uh they turned out to be wonderful people. 0:02:17.400 --> 0:02:19.239 And I give her all the credit for that. 0:02:20.120 --> 0:02:20.240 Uh. 0:02:20.520 --> 0:02:25.160 So you know it's you know you and then you 0:02:25.320 --> 0:02:30.400 got to be active in something that she supports, and 0:02:30.520 --> 0:02:35.680 she supports me doing charitable things, being involved in the community, 0:02:35.960 --> 0:02:37.080 you know, stuff like that. 0:02:38.760 --> 0:02:42.080 Yeah, so you were working a team. You were a team. 0:02:42.200 --> 0:02:44.600 Still are a team, Yes, still are a team. 0:02:44.760 --> 0:02:48.480 Were there times this might be a better question for her, actually, 0:02:49.240 --> 0:02:51.920 but you moved around a bit, you know. You you 0:02:52.040 --> 0:02:53.960 played in a bunch of places, you coached in a 0:02:53.960 --> 0:02:57.359 bunch of places, and it was like, were there times 0:02:57.400 --> 0:02:59.520 that the call came in, you like, you know, this 0:02:59.639 --> 0:03:01.280 is the right deal for you, right, you know, you 0:03:01.320 --> 0:03:04.000 know professionally you should take this job or you should 0:03:04.000 --> 0:03:06.840 go to that team. But then you had to secondarily 0:03:06.880 --> 0:03:08.919 break it to her or was it always with her 0:03:09.520 --> 0:03:11.560 and she would endorse it, then you'd decided. 0:03:13.040 --> 0:03:18.080 Well, I don't think always. But once I started, she 0:03:18.200 --> 0:03:21.640 batted me. But give you for an instance, when I 0:03:21.800 --> 0:03:25.840 first got traded to Seattle and I came out here 0:03:25.960 --> 0:03:28.960 and I was here for one year, and then the 0:03:29.040 --> 0:03:33.200 general manager they fired the coach, and they talked to 0:03:33.240 --> 0:03:38.440 me about being a playing a player coach, and I 0:03:38.560 --> 0:03:41.560 told the general manager, I said, you must be crazy, 0:03:41.760 --> 0:03:44.920 you know. But then I said, let me think about it, 0:03:45.200 --> 0:03:48.120 you know. So I went home and I talked to 0:03:48.160 --> 0:03:53.040 my wife and I mentioned to her that they want 0:03:53.040 --> 0:03:56.680 me to be a player coach and I think I'll 0:03:56.720 --> 0:04:00.560 do it. And she said, you must be stupid of crazy, 0:04:00.840 --> 0:04:04.480 And she says, I know you're not stupid. You know, 0:04:04.600 --> 0:04:09.240 you got to be crazy, you know. But anyway, we 0:04:09.440 --> 0:04:12.600 pretty much agreed on a lot of things, and you know, 0:04:12.760 --> 0:04:14.280 and it's worked out. 0:04:16.320 --> 0:04:18.800 Am I correct? Was was the coach who got fired? 0:04:18.880 --> 0:04:21.360 Was that al Bianki or do I have my timeline 0:04:21.360 --> 0:04:23.560 messed up? Who got fired to have you be the 0:04:23.560 --> 0:04:25.520 next coach as a player coach at that time? 0:04:26.279 --> 0:04:29.200 Yeah, it was al Biyankee, who I knew. I had 0:04:29.240 --> 0:04:34.080 played against him, and you know, but they wanted someone 0:04:34.839 --> 0:04:38.600 I don't know. You know, when I told the general 0:04:38.680 --> 0:04:41.000 manager he was crazy, he said to me, well, you 0:04:41.080 --> 0:04:43.600 run the team anyway. You know. I don't know how 0:04:43.640 --> 0:04:44.760 he got that assumption. 0:04:44.920 --> 0:04:49.280 But you were the leader. You were the point guard, 0:04:49.520 --> 0:04:50.279 you know, right. 0:04:50.720 --> 0:04:54.520 So on Twitter as we taped this on a Thursday 0:04:54.839 --> 0:04:58.000 in October, on Twitter, just yes, in fact it was 0:04:58.040 --> 0:04:59.840 it was Caesars, the people I do some work for. 0:05:00.240 --> 0:05:02.640 They put on Twitter they said who was your favorite 0:05:02.640 --> 0:05:06.360 player when you were age ten? And I wrote Lenny Wilkins. 0:05:06.400 --> 0:05:10.400 And I'm interviewing him tomorrow. So for the people who 0:05:10.440 --> 0:05:12.480 haven't heard this story, I've only told it a million times. 0:05:12.800 --> 0:05:14.960 I was a little kid in South Seattle. You were 0:05:15.000 --> 0:05:18.320 this left handed running hook point guard out of Providence, 0:05:18.360 --> 0:05:21.080 and I loved your play, I loved your style. 0:05:21.160 --> 0:05:22.240 I love about you. 0:05:22.720 --> 0:05:25.599 And then all these years later we become friends because 0:05:25.640 --> 0:05:28.840 I got involved with you and your foundation when you 0:05:28.880 --> 0:05:31.120 would throw the gala and the golf tournament up in Seattle, 0:05:31.160 --> 0:05:34.960 and that was benefiting the Odessa Brown Clinic, helping some 0:05:35.600 --> 0:05:39.320 kids in an underserved community get healthcare. You were involved 0:05:39.400 --> 0:05:42.560 in that cause well before it even became a true 0:05:42.680 --> 0:05:47.120 national issue, this big argument over the right to healthcare 0:05:47.120 --> 0:05:47.680 in America. 0:05:48.360 --> 0:05:49.440 What got you involved? 0:05:49.480 --> 0:05:52.279 What did you see that made you inclined to like 0:05:52.360 --> 0:05:54.160 take that on as your mission? 0:05:55.560 --> 0:06:01.640 Well, a number of reasons. You know, back home, my mom, 0:06:02.120 --> 0:06:04.440 it was always tough on her. It wasn't easy. My 0:06:04.560 --> 0:06:07.560 dad passed away when I was five years old. But 0:06:07.720 --> 0:06:13.680 I had some role models who besides my mother, there 0:06:13.760 --> 0:06:15.960 was a parish priest who was like a big brother. 0:06:16.560 --> 0:06:20.479 His name was Father Tom Mannion, and he was always 0:06:20.600 --> 0:06:23.320 encouraging and letting us know that we had to give 0:06:23.440 --> 0:06:28.320 back when we were in position too. And when my 0:06:28.400 --> 0:06:31.200 mother didn't like the guys or the people I was 0:06:31.200 --> 0:06:33.760 hanging out with, she would ask him to talk to me. 0:06:34.800 --> 0:06:39.240 And we used to call them iron hands because when 0:06:39.240 --> 0:06:42.119 he grabbed you by the shoulder, you couldn't get away. 0:06:43.120 --> 0:06:46.159 And he used to always have an expression that he 0:06:46.200 --> 0:06:49.200 said to me was like, you know, who promised you? 0:06:49.640 --> 0:06:52.159 Did someone promise you life was going to be easy? 0:06:52.960 --> 0:06:57.880 And so that was always on my mind that yeah, 0:06:58.000 --> 0:07:01.520 it's not easy, but you can make it if you try. 0:07:02.320 --> 0:07:05.600 And so with him encouraging me, and then I met 0:07:05.680 --> 0:07:09.440 Jackie Robinson who and I was a big baseball fan 0:07:09.520 --> 0:07:13.920 at that time. Uh and Dodgers, the Brooklyn Dodgers were 0:07:14.080 --> 0:07:17.640 huge in our community. And I got to meet Jackie 0:07:17.720 --> 0:07:23.680 Robinson who was a fierce competitor, played with great intelligence, 0:07:23.760 --> 0:07:28.320 you know, and he was always encouraging. So those were 0:07:28.320 --> 0:07:31.560 two guys that I looked up to. And uh and 0:07:31.600 --> 0:07:34.720 then when I got traded to Seattle, I had well 0:07:34.760 --> 0:07:37.040 I was in Saint Louis first, and I used to 0:07:37.080 --> 0:07:42.080 work with a program called Shoes for Kids. We provided 0:07:42.760 --> 0:07:47.640 around Christmas time little things that these kids couldn't afford 0:07:47.680 --> 0:07:51.320 or didn't have. And uh, so when I came to Seattle, 0:07:51.440 --> 0:07:54.840 I met two ladies who sort of adopted me and 0:07:54.920 --> 0:07:59.040 my wife. One was her name was Freddie May Gautier, 0:07:59.680 --> 0:08:02.880 and there was Toby Burton, and they were very active 0:08:02.920 --> 0:08:08.080 in the community. And they introduced me to the Ojesseah 0:08:08.120 --> 0:08:13.560 Brown Children's Clinic and the medical director was a gal 0:08:13.640 --> 0:08:17.160 by the name of Blanche Lavinzio, who when I saw 0:08:17.240 --> 0:08:21.560 how she worked with young people, showing them a lot 0:08:21.560 --> 0:08:26.760 of encouragement, treating them with great dignity no matter who 0:08:26.800 --> 0:08:30.880 they were or where they came from. You know, that 0:08:30.960 --> 0:08:33.800 wasn't an issue. It was the healthcare that she wanted 0:08:33.800 --> 0:08:38.199 to provide. And that became my charity after that. When 0:08:38.240 --> 0:08:41.160 I saw that, and I saw that they were treating 0:08:41.480 --> 0:08:47.640 Native Americans, African American, white, didn't make any difference. You know, 0:08:48.640 --> 0:08:54.720 they were afforded the care irregardless of their ability to pay. 0:08:54.960 --> 0:08:58.800 So that became my charity. And we started out with 0:08:58.840 --> 0:09:02.240 a roast, and then we did the colf tournament and 0:09:02.320 --> 0:09:05.320 then my wife suggested we had a dinner, and it 0:09:05.480 --> 0:09:06.680 just grew and grew and grew. 0:09:08.360 --> 0:09:12.720 Yeah, I got to meet Tommy Davis, National League batting 0:09:12.800 --> 0:09:15.160 champion a couple of times, played for the Seattle Pilots 0:09:16.000 --> 0:09:18.720 briefly nineteen sixty nine, the one year we had the Pilots, 0:09:19.240 --> 0:09:22.400 And he was your good friend growing up in Brooklyn, 0:09:22.760 --> 0:09:25.840 and if I have the story right, he was very 0:09:25.920 --> 0:09:30.440 influential in you sticking with basketball and believing in yourself 0:09:30.440 --> 0:09:32.880 to go and make the effort take us through your 0:09:32.960 --> 0:09:36.559 high school years. And how Tommy Davis impacted you. 0:09:36.559 --> 0:09:41.040 There well, Tommy and I were We were good friends. 0:09:41.080 --> 0:09:43.959 We lived near each other. We used to you know. 0:09:44.040 --> 0:09:46.679 He taught me into coming out for the high school team, 0:09:46.840 --> 0:09:52.960 which I did, and Tommy was all American everything, but 0:09:53.640 --> 0:09:57.120 he was a starter on the basketball team. And when 0:09:57.160 --> 0:10:00.920 I came out for the team, I was like number fifteen. 0:10:01.000 --> 0:10:05.000 They had fifteen guys. I was number fifteen, and I 0:10:05.000 --> 0:10:08.760 didn't play much, you know, And so I dropped off 0:10:08.800 --> 0:10:11.720 the team because I had a little job on the side. 0:10:13.040 --> 0:10:18.360 But I started going to the playgrounds more and I 0:10:18.600 --> 0:10:23.559 started to play the pal the Police Athletic League, the CYO, 0:10:24.080 --> 0:10:27.400 and I started to get better and better, and by 0:10:27.480 --> 0:10:31.520 my junior year, I had improved a lot, and Tommy 0:10:31.679 --> 0:10:34.600 was persistent. So I went out for the team my 0:10:35.400 --> 0:10:39.800 junior year and made the starting five, and wow, you know, 0:10:40.120 --> 0:10:44.160 I mean, but we had a great coach, and he 0:10:44.240 --> 0:10:47.560 was very encouraging, you know, even though I hadn't played much. 0:10:48.520 --> 0:10:51.000 He said I had great court vision. I didn't know 0:10:51.000 --> 0:10:53.959 what he was talking about at the time, but later 0:10:54.000 --> 0:10:57.719 on I began to understand, and so I kind of 0:10:58.440 --> 0:11:03.040 slipped away from the ball and went more to basketball, 0:11:03.200 --> 0:11:08.760 although I still watched baseball. In fact, I didn't see 0:11:08.840 --> 0:11:13.240 my first pro basketball until my senior year in college, 0:11:13.640 --> 0:11:20.480 but I had seen a lot of baseball games. 0:11:24.559 --> 0:11:27.719 Well, it's both amazing to hear, you know, you tell 0:11:27.760 --> 0:11:30.640 it that way, and also I think instructive for people 0:11:30.679 --> 0:11:33.199 doing anything, doesn't matter what walk of life, whether it's 0:11:33.240 --> 0:11:38.680 athletics or business or relationship. How perseverance is almost a 0:11:38.720 --> 0:11:42.000 greater key than whatever talent, right, Like you have to 0:11:42.040 --> 0:11:44.440 not give up on yourself. But it's just funny to 0:11:44.440 --> 0:11:47.440 see that you way back when you're sixteen, seventeen, whatever 0:11:47.480 --> 0:11:50.560 you were, kind of had a crossroads and with the 0:11:50.640 --> 0:11:53.360 encouragement of somebody and the improvement, and then you end 0:11:53.440 --> 0:11:55.640 up being, you know, three time Hall of Fame basketball 0:11:55.679 --> 0:11:58.680 guy some years later. And do you ever reflect on that, 0:11:58.760 --> 0:12:00.079 like it could have gone a different way? 0:12:01.800 --> 0:12:04.319 Not much. No, I never thought about it other than, 0:12:04.600 --> 0:12:07.800 you know, I other than baseball. I always thought that 0:12:07.920 --> 0:12:10.840 I was probably going to be a school teacher. So, 0:12:11.200 --> 0:12:15.040 you know, I was always impressed with the teachers I had, 0:12:15.160 --> 0:12:18.120 especially one in high school who was a history teacher, 0:12:18.679 --> 0:12:21.240 and he made you feel like you were right there 0:12:21.280 --> 0:12:25.320 when things were happening. And that's a gift, you know. 0:12:25.600 --> 0:12:30.480 And I always thought Wow. I mean, you know, so 0:12:31.320 --> 0:12:34.240 I thought possibly I might be a school teacher. But 0:12:34.640 --> 0:12:38.440 you know, in many ways, being involved in sports and 0:12:38.520 --> 0:12:40.120 being a coach, you're teaching. 0:12:41.880 --> 0:12:45.959 Yeah, No, you absolutely were and continued to be a teacher, 0:12:46.440 --> 0:12:49.040 just in a different ways maybe than you had predicted. 0:12:49.360 --> 0:12:52.880 How did you get from there in Brooklyn to Providence 0:12:52.920 --> 0:12:55.040 and how was the choice made the Providence would be 0:12:55.400 --> 0:12:56.320 the best choice for you? 0:12:57.640 --> 0:13:00.640 Well, I you know, like I said, I only played 0:13:00.640 --> 0:13:03.160 a half a year high school ball. I had gotten 0:13:03.240 --> 0:13:09.199 skipped once and skipped the grade, and so I graduated 0:13:09.200 --> 0:13:12.760 a half a year in the middle of this school year, 0:13:12.880 --> 0:13:18.440 I had graduated my and so no one really saw 0:13:18.480 --> 0:13:21.480 me play. But the priest's friend, who was like a 0:13:21.480 --> 0:13:28.440 big brother, wrote to Providence College and talked to the coach, 0:13:28.880 --> 0:13:32.560 wrote him a letter and recommended that they watched me 0:13:32.679 --> 0:13:37.840 play or come see me. And because they knew that 0:13:37.960 --> 0:13:40.719 I couldn't afford to go to pay for college, but 0:13:41.320 --> 0:13:45.600 he felt I deserve a scholarship. So Joe Mulaney, who 0:13:45.679 --> 0:13:48.480 was the coach of Providence, came down to see boys 0:13:48.559 --> 0:13:51.679 high play the high school I went to. But I 0:13:51.800 --> 0:13:56.200 wasn't playing because my class had graduated. But he gave 0:13:56.240 --> 0:13:59.520 me a brochure, so I filled it out and nailed 0:13:59.520 --> 0:14:03.840 it in, and that summer I was eligible to play 0:14:04.000 --> 0:14:07.560 in some of the high school tournaments. So I played 0:14:07.600 --> 0:14:12.040 for a team called a Flushing Y MCA and we 0:14:12.120 --> 0:14:14.959 played against all the other teams that were in the 0:14:15.040 --> 0:14:19.600 league were mostly you know, high school all Americans, and 0:14:20.440 --> 0:14:24.400 we won the tournament. I was the MVP of the tournament. 0:14:25.200 --> 0:14:31.240 And Joe mulaney, who was the coach of Providence, his 0:14:31.400 --> 0:14:34.400 dad was at the game and he said, this can't 0:14:34.400 --> 0:14:36.400 be the same kid that wants to go to Providence. 0:14:37.040 --> 0:14:40.360 So after that I got a They called me and 0:14:40.960 --> 0:14:43.360 talked to me and said that my grades were good 0:14:43.440 --> 0:14:48.600 and I would get a full scholarship. So I went 0:14:48.680 --> 0:14:53.920 to Profets and we had a hell of a freshman team, Kenny. 0:14:54.000 --> 0:14:56.400 We were undefeated. We were twenty three in. 0:14:56.360 --> 0:15:01.440 All h man But I mean that's you know, things 0:15:01.520 --> 0:15:04.600 quickly accelerated, because not too long after that, you know, 0:15:04.680 --> 0:15:09.000 you get drafted into the NBA, and everybody who knows 0:15:09.040 --> 0:15:11.360 your basketball playing and your coaching think the other guy 0:15:11.360 --> 0:15:14.480 had it easy, you know, because you had such great success. 0:15:14.760 --> 0:15:18.600 Not everybody knows the backstory where there was this one school, 0:15:18.640 --> 0:15:20.280 you had to fill out a pamphlet, somebody had to 0:15:20.320 --> 0:15:24.680 notice you over a summer game or two. That's a 0:15:24.680 --> 0:15:28.680 pretty quick ascendency to end up accomplishing what you ultimately did. 0:15:30.080 --> 0:15:34.240 Well, it wasn't easy. And you know, they sent a 0:15:34.280 --> 0:15:39.560 scout up to Providence to talk to me about, you know, 0:15:39.640 --> 0:15:42.160 because I was drafted by the Saint Louis Hawks, who 0:15:42.800 --> 0:15:45.200 I had never seen a pro game. You know, I 0:15:45.240 --> 0:15:50.120 didn't watch I watched baseball, I didn't watch basketball. And 0:15:51.160 --> 0:15:54.960 so one of the friends, one of my friends on 0:15:55.280 --> 0:15:59.520 my teammate who lived in Boston, the Celtics were playing 0:15:59.560 --> 0:16:02.480 the Hawks for the championship, and he said, well, why 0:16:02.520 --> 0:16:04.320 don't you see if you can get tickets to the game. 0:16:04.560 --> 0:16:08.520 So I asked the scout about it, and he took 0:16:08.640 --> 0:16:14.480 us to the Boston Celtic Saint Louis Hawk game. And 0:16:14.560 --> 0:16:18.120 so I watched, and I watched the Hawk players, the 0:16:18.120 --> 0:16:21.680 Saint Louis Hawks players, their guards, and I thought I 0:16:21.800 --> 0:16:26.480 was as good as they were, you know, And so 0:16:26.600 --> 0:16:29.400 I decided that I would try to play in the 0:16:29.400 --> 0:16:33.160 pro level. So we agreed to a contract and I 0:16:33.400 --> 0:16:34.720 went out to Saint Louis. 0:16:35.000 --> 0:16:40.400 You know, well, well, eventually you came out to Seattle. 0:16:40.440 --> 0:16:42.520 I heard you speak in Seattle just a few weeks ago. 0:16:42.600 --> 0:16:44.880 You and I were both at a fundraiser and you 0:16:44.920 --> 0:16:47.400 were saying, you know, kind of came, you know, kicking 0:16:47.480 --> 0:16:49.800 and screaming, then quickly like, oh, I kind of like 0:16:49.880 --> 0:16:52.880 this place. And you've you never left right other than 0:16:52.880 --> 0:16:55.600 when you went and coached elsewhere, but Seattle was called 0:16:55.800 --> 0:16:59.160 kind of your home base, and is now I remember 0:16:59.200 --> 0:17:02.240 because I'm now, you know, I think maybe grade school 0:17:02.280 --> 0:17:04.240 in the junior high when you're starting to really become 0:17:04.280 --> 0:17:07.360 a star and a star for the Sonics, and they 0:17:07.440 --> 0:17:10.600 traded you to Cleveland for Butcher Beard. 0:17:11.240 --> 0:17:13.520 And I can't tell you how as. 0:17:13.400 --> 0:17:15.480 A little in so many of my friends, because we 0:17:15.560 --> 0:17:17.840 know we revered these Sonic players, and you in particular, 0:17:18.400 --> 0:17:22.760 how much and how hard that hit us. You You 0:17:23.000 --> 0:17:26.400 at the time had just started to like get comfortable 0:17:26.440 --> 0:17:27.960 in Seattle, right, and then all of a sudden you 0:17:28.040 --> 0:17:31.560 get traded. How did that trade hit you at the time? 0:17:31.600 --> 0:17:34.080 And if I have the story right, tell me if 0:17:34.080 --> 0:17:37.000 I'm wrong. You were I think golfing heard it from 0:17:37.040 --> 0:17:39.480 somebody at the golf course. You didn't even get approached 0:17:39.480 --> 0:17:41.239 directly by the team. 0:17:41.560 --> 0:17:45.280 Right well, the train the team. At that time, they 0:17:45.359 --> 0:17:52.200 hired a new general manager and so, and he had 0:17:52.240 --> 0:17:56.439 talked to me. He said that I should play all coach. 0:17:56.880 --> 0:18:01.240 He didn't want me to do both, and and I said, well, 0:18:01.280 --> 0:18:04.320 you don't pay me enough to coach, so I just 0:18:04.359 --> 0:18:07.600 assumed be a player. And then and then I started 0:18:07.600 --> 0:18:11.480 hearing rumors that they were going to trade me, and 0:18:12.800 --> 0:18:15.639 because they were afraid the players would want to listen 0:18:15.680 --> 0:18:19.080 to me and not the new coach. And so I 0:18:19.240 --> 0:18:24.200 was out playing golf with Marv Harshman, who was the 0:18:24.200 --> 0:18:28.119 coach of the UW Huskies, who was a good friend, 0:18:28.160 --> 0:18:31.880 and we were about to tee off when I got 0:18:31.960 --> 0:18:36.480 a call from my wife saying that the Sonic office 0:18:36.480 --> 0:18:40.560 had just called to say I was traded. And so 0:18:41.200 --> 0:18:45.359 I didn't play golf that day. I left, I apologized 0:18:45.400 --> 0:18:47.960 and went home. And then when I got to my house, 0:18:48.040 --> 0:18:52.520 the media was all in our front yard, and I 0:18:52.600 --> 0:18:57.160 was very disappointed, because, yeah, we did we loved it here, 0:18:57.640 --> 0:19:00.119 and we didn't at first, but when we first got there, 0:19:00.760 --> 0:19:03.520 after being here for a while, we got to meet people. 0:19:03.640 --> 0:19:06.800 Our kids were comfortable. You know, we had two kids 0:19:06.840 --> 0:19:11.800 at the time and so I was very disappointed, and 0:19:13.320 --> 0:19:19.320 I threatened that I wouldn't go. You know, I said 0:19:19.359 --> 0:19:21.520 I wasn't going to go, and I was being offered 0:19:21.560 --> 0:19:28.080 lots of jobs. But then the owner of the Cleveland 0:19:28.160 --> 0:19:31.919 team where I was traded to, he and the coach 0:19:32.040 --> 0:19:36.320 flew out here to talk to me about coming to Cleveland. 0:19:37.119 --> 0:19:41.520 And after meeting them and listening and whatnot, I decided 0:19:41.600 --> 0:19:44.120 that I would go because I felt I had some 0:19:45.000 --> 0:19:48.240 good years left that I could play. So that's how 0:19:48.280 --> 0:19:51.760 I decided to go to Cleveland, you know. But after 0:19:51.840 --> 0:19:55.400 being there a couple of years, when I was offered 0:19:56.880 --> 0:20:03.480 to come back here by Herman Sarkowski, who own part 0:20:03.520 --> 0:20:07.119 of the Portland Trailblazers, and so I, you know, we 0:20:07.160 --> 0:20:10.439 still had a home in Seattle, and I decided I 0:20:10.480 --> 0:20:15.280 would take that job. So I retired from Cleveland. And 0:20:15.320 --> 0:20:17.919 when I got to Portland, I thought I was just 0:20:17.960 --> 0:20:20.359 going to be their coach, and they had gotten my 0:20:20.640 --> 0:20:23.960 acquired my playing rights, and I became a player coach again. 0:20:26.760 --> 0:20:29.000 You know, rot. 0:20:31.160 --> 0:20:34.200 Well retired from playing. You know, we know about the 0:20:34.480 --> 0:20:37.560 coaching that would come soon up in Seattle. So go 0:20:37.640 --> 0:20:39.520 backwards a little bit. I've told you the story a 0:20:39.560 --> 0:20:43.119 couple of times. You came as a Cleveland player to 0:20:43.200 --> 0:20:46.040 play back in Seattle. You know, this is your return game. 0:20:46.880 --> 0:20:49.280 The place I got sold out. I'm only like twelve 0:20:49.320 --> 0:20:51.000 years old, and we didn't enough money to buy from 0:20:51.040 --> 0:20:53.120 the scalpers. The game was sold out and we only 0:20:53.119 --> 0:20:55.080 had ten or twenty bucks on us and the tickets 0:20:55.080 --> 0:20:57.320 were too high, so we just like messed around the 0:20:57.320 --> 0:20:59.840 Seattle Center. I went on the space needle. I think 0:21:00.080 --> 0:21:02.200 threw a T shirt off the Space needl in protest, 0:21:02.280 --> 0:21:05.760 thinking people would understand that. I don't know if I 0:21:05.800 --> 0:21:08.879 conveyed my protest the way right way, But the crowd 0:21:09.359 --> 0:21:12.720 cheered for you the whole game, and I think did 0:21:12.720 --> 0:21:14.520 Cleveland win the game? I think you did, but I 0:21:14.520 --> 0:21:16.760 can't swear to it, but I know the crowd was 0:21:16.800 --> 0:21:20.560 totally on your side, giving you the appreciation you deserved 0:21:20.760 --> 0:21:22.240 as you came back for a different team. 0:21:24.400 --> 0:21:29.360 Kenny, it was incredible. If you talk about memorable moments, 0:21:29.680 --> 0:21:32.960 that was incredible because my wife didn't want to come 0:21:32.960 --> 0:21:35.280 to the game, and so our friends talked her in 0:21:35.320 --> 0:21:38.920 to come to the game and they would sit with her. 0:21:39.080 --> 0:21:44.680 You know. But when we got there, right from the beginning, 0:21:44.760 --> 0:21:49.840 there were signs everywhere saying this is Lenny's country, and 0:21:51.080 --> 0:21:53.919 they cheered, and when I was introduced, they had to 0:21:53.960 --> 0:21:57.800 stop the ovation so we could start the game. It 0:21:57.880 --> 0:22:02.120 was incredible, and they cheered the whole game, law and 0:22:02.160 --> 0:22:05.560 that was the first time Cleveland ever beat Seattle and 0:22:05.800 --> 0:22:09.360 we won the game. It was just an incredible highlight. 0:22:09.520 --> 0:22:15.480 I've never experienced anything like that. It was unbelievable and 0:22:16.160 --> 0:22:35.200 it was just amazing. 0:22:37.359 --> 0:22:39.680 Good news is you eventually did come back to Seattle 0:22:39.760 --> 0:22:42.560 as the head coach. First were you the assistant, then 0:22:42.600 --> 0:22:43.920 you took over for Hopkins. 0:22:43.960 --> 0:22:45.120 Is that what it was? 0:22:44.800 --> 0:22:47.480 Where we had a slow start and you elevated up 0:22:47.520 --> 0:22:50.000 to be the head coach the year we would eventually 0:22:50.040 --> 0:22:53.000 lose to the Bullets now the Wizards in seventy eight. 0:22:53.040 --> 0:22:58.000 Correct, Yeah, correct. What happened was that that summer when 0:22:58.000 --> 0:23:01.560 I was in Seattle, I was at dinner and the 0:23:01.600 --> 0:23:05.800 owner of the Sonics kept following me around all night long, 0:23:06.400 --> 0:23:14.000 wanting me to come back to Seattle. And I had 0:23:15.040 --> 0:23:18.640 you know, I had worked for CBS that year doing 0:23:19.040 --> 0:23:24.640 color commentating. Of course, after a year or two with Portland, 0:23:24.680 --> 0:23:28.960 I left. Uh and uh, but my home was in Seattle. 0:23:29.240 --> 0:23:32.960 So the owner talked to me. So I came back. 0:23:33.000 --> 0:23:35.960 I was in the front office. I was, you know, 0:23:36.000 --> 0:23:41.280 assistant general manager, director of player personnel, and they had 0:23:41.280 --> 0:23:45.760 a trade going on when I accepted the job, and 0:23:46.000 --> 0:23:49.080 I blocked the trade. They wanted to trade Fred Brown, 0:23:49.119 --> 0:23:51.119 and I said it was a bad trade, you know, 0:23:51.200 --> 0:23:54.359 because I they were trying to trade him to the 0:23:54.480 --> 0:23:59.480 Lakers for a player. I can't remember the player's name. 0:24:00.400 --> 0:24:04.280 He wasn't He was okay, but he wasn't. Fred could 0:24:04.359 --> 0:24:07.800 really shoot the ball. And I said, we can't give 0:24:07.880 --> 0:24:12.320 up on Fred. I said no, so I they listened. 0:24:12.480 --> 0:24:16.480 I blocked the trade, and then I made a trade. 0:24:16.760 --> 0:24:22.840 I traded Tom Burleson to Denver for Paul Silas and 0:24:22.880 --> 0:24:29.280 Marvin Webster. And then I also traded that There was 0:24:29.320 --> 0:24:34.440 a free agent, Gus Williams with Golden State, and all 0:24:34.440 --> 0:24:38.359 we had to do was pay his deferred income because 0:24:38.400 --> 0:24:42.240 they didn't want to re sign. And when I found 0:24:42.280 --> 0:24:46.200 him out, it was only seventy thousand dollars his deferred income. 0:24:47.160 --> 0:24:49.399 I said, I told Sam I was going to do it. 0:24:49.520 --> 0:24:51.720 He said, okay, if you feel it's right, and I 0:24:51.760 --> 0:24:54.760 said yeah. I said, we'll never get another player like that. 0:24:55.880 --> 0:25:00.800 So I got Gus Williams, and now I got Silas 0:25:00.800 --> 0:25:04.919 and Marvin Western, Fred Brown and you know, and Slick 0:25:05.040 --> 0:25:09.919 was on that team and everybody but I was in 0:25:09.960 --> 0:25:13.280 the front office, and I promised Sam I would not 0:25:13.440 --> 0:25:17.560