1 00:00:04,559 --> 00:00:07,960 Speaker 1: Hello everybody. I'm Jemma Spaike and welcome back to the 2 00:00:07,960 --> 00:00:11,280 Speaker 1: Psychology of Your Twenties, the podcast where we talk through 3 00:00:11,320 --> 00:00:16,000 Speaker 1: the biggest changes, moments, and transitions of our twenties and 4 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:25,799 Speaker 1: what they mean for our psychology. Hello everybody, Welcome back 5 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:28,640 Speaker 1: to the show. Welcome back to the podcast. It is 6 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:31,480 Speaker 1: so great to have you here, back for another episode 7 00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:35,720 Speaker 1: as we, of course break down the Psychology of your twenties. Today, 8 00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:38,879 Speaker 1: I have a very special episode for you all, basically 9 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:42,720 Speaker 1: an hour of free therapy. A huge focus of this 10 00:00:42,760 --> 00:00:46,040 Speaker 1: podcast is mental health and it's psychology. Psychology is in 11 00:00:46,080 --> 00:00:48,720 Speaker 1: the name, and we talk about so many concepts and theories, 12 00:00:49,159 --> 00:00:52,480 Speaker 1: even therapeutic practices and interventions. We talk about it all 13 00:00:52,520 --> 00:00:55,640 Speaker 1: the time. But what I have never done is just 14 00:00:55,720 --> 00:00:59,440 Speaker 1: sat down and done a full episode on what therapy 15 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:03,200 Speaker 1: actually is, what it aims to do, what it means 16 00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:06,959 Speaker 1: to be a therapist, what it means to be in therapy. 17 00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:09,759 Speaker 1: Everybody tells us that it's helpful. Everybody tells us it's 18 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:13,640 Speaker 1: this magical thing. Why why just talking to a stranger help? 19 00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:17,280 Speaker 1: What can you expect? Why does it change people? So 20 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:19,959 Speaker 1: in this episode, we're going to break down exactly what 21 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:24,600 Speaker 1: therapy does, the real psychology behind why change happens, and 22 00:01:24,959 --> 00:01:26,640 Speaker 1: what it means to be a therapist, what it means 23 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:29,360 Speaker 1: to go to therapy. We're also bringing on a very 24 00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:34,120 Speaker 1: special guest, doctor Sandra Espinoza. She is the associate professor 25 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:37,200 Speaker 1: and the former branch director for the Couple and Family 26 00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:40,800 Speaker 1: Therapy program at Alliance University. She's going to share some 27 00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:44,720 Speaker 1: amazing expertise with us today. Doctor Espinosa, welcome to the show. 28 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:47,000 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me. Janma, I'm excited 29 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:47,480 Speaker 2: to be here. 30 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm so excited to have you here. Do you 31 00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:51,840 Speaker 1: want to introduce yourself and just like talk about the 32 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:54,240 Speaker 1: work that you do at Alliant and also beyond because 33 00:01:54,560 --> 00:01:55,640 Speaker 1: you do some cool stuff. 34 00:01:55,720 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 2: Sure. Yeah. So I am in associate professor at l 35 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:04,760 Speaker 2: I have been at Alliant now for I think ten years, 36 00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:08,880 Speaker 2: and I have been a therapist for about thirteen I 37 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:13,760 Speaker 2: think going on fourteen. So I'm a clinician and an educator. 38 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:17,880 Speaker 2: I have a really small private practice where I see clients, 39 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:21,639 Speaker 2: and I see mostly couples as well as a lot 40 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:25,760 Speaker 2: of women and a lot of clients that identify as immigrants. 41 00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:28,960 Speaker 2: So I have my clinical work I have my teaching, 42 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:32,519 Speaker 2: I do some research, and then I think the part 43 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:34,920 Speaker 2: that brings the most meaning to my work is that 44 00:02:34,919 --> 00:02:39,799 Speaker 2: I'm also an organizer for a volunteer group of therapists 45 00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:45,680 Speaker 2: who donate their time to serving immigrants, specifically undocumented immigrants, 46 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:48,040 Speaker 2: and I've been organizing for that for the past year. 47 00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:50,760 Speaker 2: So there are folks who are just again donating their 48 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:52,960 Speaker 2: time to provide therapy for people who might not have 49 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:56,600 Speaker 2: access to it otherwise, and that has just been a 50 00:02:56,639 --> 00:02:59,720 Speaker 2: really exciting and meaningful part of my career the past year. 51 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:03,079 Speaker 2: I'm also a mom. I am a mom of three. 52 00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:06,320 Speaker 2: I have three little kids. I have a five year old, 53 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:10,400 Speaker 2: a three year old, and a six month old, so 54 00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:13,880 Speaker 2: I know, so I have my hands full with that. 55 00:03:14,919 --> 00:03:18,120 Speaker 2: And I am a Mexican American. I am a proud 56 00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:21,760 Speaker 2: daughter of immigrants, and so I'm bilingual and I speak 57 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:25,520 Speaker 2: Spanish and so just really passionate about doing clinical work 58 00:03:25,560 --> 00:03:26,640 Speaker 2: with the LATINX community. 59 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:31,160 Speaker 1: I'm that is so impressive, but also double thanks for 60 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:33,160 Speaker 1: being here today, because you have a lot of stuff 61 00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:37,040 Speaker 1: probably is a little bit more important, but I honestly 62 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:38,560 Speaker 1: feel like that was why I really wanted to speak 63 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 1: to you, because You've just done so much over so 64 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:46,640 Speaker 1: many different so many different parts of the psychology discipline 65 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:48,880 Speaker 1: and the therapy discipline, and like what you can do 66 00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:53,280 Speaker 1: and how you can help at every single level. And 67 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:56,360 Speaker 1: a lot of our listeners are doing psychology want to 68 00:03:56,360 --> 00:03:59,040 Speaker 1: become therapists or just in general trying to figure out 69 00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:03,080 Speaker 1: who they want to become. You specifically, what did your 70 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 1: journey into this field actually look like? Like? Did you 71 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:08,400 Speaker 1: come into it? Did you always know this is what 72 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 1: you wanted to be doing? Give us Yeah? 73 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:14,560 Speaker 2: Sure. So when I was in my undergrad I was 74 00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:18,120 Speaker 2: really interested in working with kids and working kind of 75 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:21,800 Speaker 2: more in the education field, and so I worked in 76 00:04:21,839 --> 00:04:24,320 Speaker 2: a lot of after school programs I wad for, like 77 00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:27,320 Speaker 2: the Boys and Girls Club, I did a MERACORPS and 78 00:04:27,880 --> 00:04:30,720 Speaker 2: that work was really meaningful, and you know, I still 79 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:32,960 Speaker 2: carry so many of the like amazing memories that I 80 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:36,560 Speaker 2: made and working with children. But what I noticed is 81 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:39,240 Speaker 2: that when I was working with the kids, you know, 82 00:04:39,279 --> 00:04:43,080 Speaker 2: a lot of them came from some challenging backgrounds, and 83 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:45,600 Speaker 2: even though they had these amazing programs that they were 84 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:48,920 Speaker 2: attending with me after school, I didn't feel like it 85 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:52,360 Speaker 2: was enough to really make an impact. In their lives. 86 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:55,080 Speaker 2: I would, you know, I could spend two three hours 87 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:56,560 Speaker 2: with them after school, but then they would kind of 88 00:04:56,600 --> 00:05:00,400 Speaker 2: go back home to sometimes homes that I didn't have 89 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:04,479 Speaker 2: a lot of resources, homes where the parent relationship wasn't great, 90 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:07,120 Speaker 2: and I kept asking myself, like what more can I do. 91 00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:10,159 Speaker 2: I would spend weekends with them, take them on field trips, 92 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:13,360 Speaker 2: and I still kept coming across as like I don't know, 93 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:15,760 Speaker 2: just kind of inner challenge of like I need to 94 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:18,160 Speaker 2: be doing more. I want to help in another way. 95 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:23,440 Speaker 2: And so then I started researching different programs, different schools, 96 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:26,680 Speaker 2: and a friend had always told me, you need to 97 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:30,960 Speaker 2: go to Alliant. Alliant trains really good therapists. You need 98 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:34,039 Speaker 2: to go look into it. So I started looking into Alliant, 99 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:35,960 Speaker 2: and then from there I came across the couple and 100 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:38,400 Speaker 2: family therapy program and I was like, yes, I want 101 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 2: to work with families. I want to work with couples 102 00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:44,919 Speaker 2: because I want to make that larger impact with the 103 00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:47,600 Speaker 2: children that I'm serving. And what's the best way to 104 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:50,880 Speaker 2: reach a child. It's through their parent, It's through their family. 105 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 2: I also had I think, pretty I came from a 106 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:57,440 Speaker 2: really good family. I will say my family you know, 107 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:00,760 Speaker 2: my parents were supportive, they sacrificed the for me. But 108 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:04,120 Speaker 2: I had a lot of trouble with my romantic relationships 109 00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:07,640 Speaker 2: growing up, and I think didn't just didn't have like 110 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:11,600 Speaker 2: a blueprint for what to do in a couple's relationship. 111 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:13,600 Speaker 2: And so I mentioned this part because I think that 112 00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:16,360 Speaker 2: also inspired me to go specifically into like couple work 113 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:18,719 Speaker 2: where I think I wanted answers, so like why aren't 114 00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:22,279 Speaker 2: my romantic relationships working? And so it was like both, 115 00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 2: it was like, I want to work with families, I 116 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:25,480 Speaker 2: want to make that impact, and then also I kind 117 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:28,960 Speaker 2: of want to find out more about myself about relationships, 118 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:31,480 Speaker 2: like what makes a healthy relationship, what makes it work? 119 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:33,960 Speaker 2: So I think it was a combination of both of 120 00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:35,120 Speaker 2: those things. 121 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:40,200 Speaker 1: Honestly, I feel like the best therapists are the ones 122 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:44,080 Speaker 1: who have have had like tangible experiences themselves, so they 123 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:46,880 Speaker 1: can see somebody come into their office and just know 124 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:49,279 Speaker 1: where that sits kind of in the soul and in 125 00:06:49,279 --> 00:06:52,599 Speaker 1: the body and in the mind. Something I want to 126 00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:56,520 Speaker 1: ask you, maybe this is a postal question, before becoming 127 00:06:56,520 --> 00:06:59,360 Speaker 1: a therapist, did you go to therapy yourself? 128 00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:04,880 Speaker 2: No knows, And this is very embarrassing because I tell 129 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:07,000 Speaker 2: all my students, like, you have to go to therapy 130 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:10,920 Speaker 2: before becoming a therapist. And I think we'll probably dive 131 00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:12,600 Speaker 2: into a little bit more of like why that's so 132 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:15,360 Speaker 2: important later, but I'll mention it kind of like briefly here. 133 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:18,680 Speaker 2: You know, when you are doing this work with other people, 134 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:22,240 Speaker 2: it's so important that you have fully examined right your 135 00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:27,120 Speaker 2: own biases, values, belief systems, et cetera, so that when 136 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:30,480 Speaker 2: you are in a therapeutic relationship with somebody else, you 137 00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:34,600 Speaker 2: are making sure that those things aren't transcending into the 138 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:39,520 Speaker 2: relationship with the other that you are. You have fixed 139 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:42,520 Speaker 2: your you have figured out yourself so well right, or 140 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:45,480 Speaker 2: at least in some ways, to make sure that when 141 00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:50,720 Speaker 2: you are how we're doing counseling somebody else like that 142 00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:53,360 Speaker 2: that isn't informing the way that you do it. I'll 143 00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:57,880 Speaker 2: give you an example. Some people are still carrying such 144 00:07:57,960 --> 00:08:02,440 Speaker 2: deep wounds about again their own couple relationship that they'll 145 00:08:02,440 --> 00:08:05,480 Speaker 2: then start working with a couple and side with one 146 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 2: partner because that's what resonates more personally to them in 147 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:13,560 Speaker 2: terms of their lived experience. And so we want folks 148 00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:16,280 Speaker 2: to go to therapy first to make sure that that 149 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:20,120 Speaker 2: doesn't happen, that you are trying your best right to 150 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:24,440 Speaker 2: remain as neutral as possible, even though neutrality is also 151 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:26,920 Speaker 2: impossible because all of us are bringing in our own 152 00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:29,720 Speaker 2: lived experiences as therapists. We want to be able to 153 00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:32,439 Speaker 2: remain impartial, right. We want to have what we call 154 00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:36,079 Speaker 2: contextual therapy is like multidirective partiality, that we're able to 155 00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:40,079 Speaker 2: hear every single person out, we're not citing right, etc. 156 00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:42,240 Speaker 2: But back to your original question of like did I 157 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:44,959 Speaker 2: ever go No, I think that it was really taboo 158 00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:49,040 Speaker 2: in my family. My parents definitely didn't go to therapy. Again, 159 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:52,080 Speaker 2: they were like immigrants, they came from Mexico, they didn't 160 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:56,080 Speaker 2: speak English. It just wasn't talked about in my family. 161 00:08:56,800 --> 00:08:59,679 Speaker 2: And it was only until I became a therapist and 162 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:02,439 Speaker 2: soar in doing the work that then finally I went. 163 00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:07,079 Speaker 2: I went to individual therapy, ve into couple therapy, And 164 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:08,920 Speaker 2: now I'm like, oh my god, I should have done 165 00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:11,559 Speaker 2: this so much sooner. It would have helped before even 166 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:14,120 Speaker 2: becoming a therapist in a lot of ways. 167 00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:16,520 Speaker 1: I really like that that's the advice that you give 168 00:09:17,160 --> 00:09:19,000 Speaker 1: to your students because you're like, I did it the 169 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:22,240 Speaker 1: other way, and so now like I I'm not going 170 00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:23,920 Speaker 1: to say, like, don't make the same mistakes, but it's 171 00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:25,440 Speaker 1: like I, no, I can see that I would have 172 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:29,240 Speaker 1: been aided through this and it must have been Yeah, 173 00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:32,320 Speaker 1: it must have been difficult. Oh, not difficult, but interesting 174 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:35,559 Speaker 1: for you, like becoming a therapist and maybe never having 175 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:38,440 Speaker 1: experience therapy. And I know so many people listening to 176 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:41,600 Speaker 1: this believe to their call like therapy is an amazing thing. 177 00:09:41,679 --> 00:09:43,840 Speaker 1: I really like, it's great, but I've just never done it. 178 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:47,800 Speaker 1: So there is this specific idea of therapy is like 179 00:09:47,880 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 1: lying on a couch being maybe like asked questions about 180 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:55,080 Speaker 1: your dreams, about your parents. What do you actually do 181 00:09:55,880 --> 00:09:56,440 Speaker 1: in therapy? 182 00:09:56,520 --> 00:10:01,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, well that is also such a big question because 183 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:04,520 Speaker 2: depending on who you're asking, you're going to get a 184 00:10:04,520 --> 00:10:10,800 Speaker 2: different response. So if you are interviewing a psychiatrist, psychologist, 185 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:15,320 Speaker 2: a social worker, an MFT like me, you're going to 186 00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:18,240 Speaker 2: get a different response probably from each person. And that's 187 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:22,640 Speaker 2: because we all do it or approach it in different ways. Right, 188 00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:28,040 Speaker 2: So for us as couple in family therapists, we are 189 00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:31,120 Speaker 2: working with an individual and trying to figure out what 190 00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:34,719 Speaker 2: they're inner world is right, what their belief systems are 191 00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:38,760 Speaker 2: how they're thinking about things, how they're feeling about things. 192 00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:41,840 Speaker 2: But we're also looking at it in the context of 193 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:46,320 Speaker 2: relationships and systems. So yes, we want to understand what 194 00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:50,080 Speaker 2: you're experiencing, what's hurting you, what's painful, what's bothering you, 195 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:55,000 Speaker 2: But how how is that being experienced in the relation 196 00:10:55,160 --> 00:10:58,440 Speaker 2: to your family, in the relation to your neighborhood, and 197 00:10:58,520 --> 00:11:03,640 Speaker 2: the relation to your society, because we believe as MFTs 198 00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:06,720 Speaker 2: that all of those things impact the way that you 199 00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:10,439 Speaker 2: are navigating the world. And so that's really our emphasis. 200 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:13,000 Speaker 2: Whereas if you were to ask I don't know, a 201 00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:17,199 Speaker 2: psychologist or a different kinds of therapist, they might say, well, 202 00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:22,520 Speaker 2: we're really concerned about behavior and helping you modify your 203 00:11:22,559 --> 00:11:27,440 Speaker 2: behavior so that you have less emotional distress, so that 204 00:11:27,559 --> 00:11:32,000 Speaker 2: you have less anxiety, and that is also valuable. Right, 205 00:11:32,040 --> 00:11:34,520 Speaker 2: So I'm thinking about like people who have like OCD, 206 00:11:34,679 --> 00:11:38,400 Speaker 2: for example, who really need help managing some of their 207 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:42,920 Speaker 2: behaviors so that they experience like symptom relief. Right. But 208 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:45,559 Speaker 2: again it just depends on who you're going to ask 209 00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:47,839 Speaker 2: that you'll get that kind of like different response. But 210 00:11:47,880 --> 00:11:50,000 Speaker 2: again I think for me, like where I live as 211 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:54,520 Speaker 2: an MFT, it's really about helping a person better understand 212 00:11:54,559 --> 00:11:59,600 Speaker 2: themselves in relation to their family context and their socio 213 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:02,640 Speaker 2: politic contacts so that they can make sense of what 214 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:03,800 Speaker 2: they're experiencing. 215 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:06,920 Speaker 1: I like the emphasis on like how the how the 216 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:10,480 Speaker 1: environment has shaped you in ways that you probably don't understand, 217 00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:12,920 Speaker 1: and how you need to have that baseline or maybe 218 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:16,960 Speaker 1: do understand. Actually we probably do, but you, you know, 219 00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:21,080 Speaker 1: need to get to that next layer of depth. Something 220 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:22,680 Speaker 1: I want to ask you because you work with so 221 00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:25,959 Speaker 1: many different types of people. You know, when you meet 222 00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:31,440 Speaker 1: someone as a therapist and you're looking into their you know, 223 00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:36,400 Speaker 1: their family history, their the socio political environment that they 224 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:39,880 Speaker 1: live in, just everything that's going on around them and 225 00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:43,080 Speaker 1: within them and in their past specifically. And maybe this 226 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:45,640 Speaker 1: is a difficult, difficult quession to answer. What are you 227 00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:48,920 Speaker 1: looking for? What are you trying to figure out about 228 00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:52,040 Speaker 1: that individual in the first couple of sessions. 229 00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:54,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm usually trying to look for a pattern. So 230 00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:57,319 Speaker 2: whether that's where I'm working with an individual, whether I'm 231 00:12:57,320 --> 00:12:59,360 Speaker 2: working with a couple, or whether I'm not working with 232 00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:03,040 Speaker 2: a family, I'm trying to find the pattern that keeps 233 00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:06,000 Speaker 2: getting them stuck because Most of the time when people 234 00:13:06,040 --> 00:13:08,480 Speaker 2: are coming to therapy, it's because they want to change 235 00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:11,920 Speaker 2: something right, They want something about their lives to be different. 236 00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:15,280 Speaker 2: And many times they're telling me, we keep getting stuck, 237 00:13:15,360 --> 00:13:18,240 Speaker 2: or I keep getting stuck, I keep dating the same 238 00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:22,480 Speaker 2: guy over and over again, or we keep fighting about 239 00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:25,600 Speaker 2: the same exact thing. Help us through it. And so 240 00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:28,880 Speaker 2: my job is to look for that pattern or we 241 00:13:28,920 --> 00:13:30,840 Speaker 2: even call it like a cycle, or we call it 242 00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:34,960 Speaker 2: a dance, and figure out how can we interrupt this 243 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:37,640 Speaker 2: pattern so that you have a new way of being 244 00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:42,679 Speaker 2: in relationship with yourself or others, And that will entail right, 245 00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:45,040 Speaker 2: what we just talked about, which is like, okay, looking 246 00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:47,880 Speaker 2: back at your family, what are some things that you 247 00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:51,040 Speaker 2: learned about your family, what was passed on? What kind 248 00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:55,360 Speaker 2: of messages were sent to you about being afraid about 249 00:13:55,400 --> 00:13:59,360 Speaker 2: being sad? It might inquire again us to look at 250 00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:03,680 Speaker 2: your socio political contexts. Do you have a real reason 251 00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:07,680 Speaker 2: to be scared to leave outside of your door? Right? 252 00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:11,200 Speaker 2: How is that also impacting the way that you're showing 253 00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:17,360 Speaker 2: up in your relationships? What have your past relationships look like, 254 00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:19,920 Speaker 2: just like as a young adult, how is that informing 255 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:23,240 Speaker 2: the way that you're showing up in the hearing now, right, 256 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:26,080 Speaker 2: So a lot of it is looking back at the past, 257 00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:29,400 Speaker 2: looking at different systems, and then tying it back to 258 00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:32,880 Speaker 2: how is that impacting you in this present moment? 259 00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:36,840 Speaker 1: Can I ask a question if you have somebody come 260 00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:39,840 Speaker 1: in and, like you said, you know, they're an immigrant, 261 00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:42,160 Speaker 1: they're scared to go outside the door, or there's somebody 262 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:47,800 Speaker 1: who's experienced racism and they're terrified of that happening, how 263 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:54,040 Speaker 1: do you handle those like very real environmental things that 264 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:56,880 Speaker 1: you can't change as a therapist. Absolutely, I've always like, 265 00:14:56,920 --> 00:14:59,760 Speaker 1: I just yeah, I think that's such an interesting th. 266 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:01,760 Speaker 2: Yes, And I think that that is a question that 267 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:04,600 Speaker 2: a lot of people ask themselves, even like therapists are 268 00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:07,440 Speaker 2: like how do I help this person when I have 269 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:12,600 Speaker 2: no control over their environment? And the truth is like, 270 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:15,440 Speaker 2: first just like naming that right and validating that and 271 00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:21,120 Speaker 2: saying you are not crazy. There is nothing innately wrong 272 00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:25,720 Speaker 2: with you. You are having a very normal response to 273 00:15:25,840 --> 00:15:29,760 Speaker 2: an abnormal situation. And we think about it that way 274 00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:33,400 Speaker 2: with like any kind of trauma really where a person 275 00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:36,280 Speaker 2: actually has a real reason to be scared. Maybe they 276 00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:38,480 Speaker 2: had gotten in a really bad car accident, or they've 277 00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:40,840 Speaker 2: lost a family and a car accident, lost their family 278 00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:45,360 Speaker 2: in an airplane, and they're scared of flying, they're scared 279 00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:50,360 Speaker 2: of driving. It makes sense to me that people are 280 00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:53,880 Speaker 2: terrified of doing that thing again. And I think that 281 00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:56,520 Speaker 2: that is so important to first just like name that 282 00:15:56,560 --> 00:15:59,200 Speaker 2: you are having again a very normal response to an 283 00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:02,760 Speaker 2: abnormal situation that shouldn't have happened to you, that shouldn't 284 00:16:02,760 --> 00:16:06,880 Speaker 2: have happened to your family, and then also again acknowledging 285 00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:10,160 Speaker 2: that no matter what I do right, I won't be 286 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:15,120 Speaker 2: able to fix what is happening outside of these four walls. However, 287 00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:17,760 Speaker 2: this is going to be your space where you can 288 00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:20,160 Speaker 2: talk about these things. I can hear you, and I 289 00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:22,760 Speaker 2: can help you figure out a way to navigate what 290 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:27,280 Speaker 2: is happening outside as best as possible, because you know, 291 00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:28,440 Speaker 2: and a lot of the work that I do, I 292 00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:30,960 Speaker 2: tell my therapists. You know, if you are feeling frustrated 293 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:35,440 Speaker 2: that your client is not getting better, you are feeling 294 00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:38,360 Speaker 2: like maybe I'm not a good therapist because I can't 295 00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:42,120 Speaker 2: relieve all of their human suffering. You have to remember 296 00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:44,200 Speaker 2: that it's not your fault and a lot of the 297 00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:48,560 Speaker 2: times we are just dealing with a broken socio political system. Right, 298 00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:54,360 Speaker 2: it's beyond your control, and you just have to trust 299 00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:59,480 Speaker 2: that your relationship with this person is enough and it's 300 00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:01,880 Speaker 2: going to be enough to make a difference and relieve 301 00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:03,960 Speaker 2: some of that pain that they are experiencing. 302 00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:06,520 Speaker 1: I wish I had you as a professor when I 303 00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:10,119 Speaker 1: was studying. I feel like that's never spoken about of 304 00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:12,800 Speaker 1: Just like you, you have to know your limits as 305 00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:15,520 Speaker 1: somebody as a helper and as an EmPATH and as 306 00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:18,080 Speaker 1: somebody just doing their job. Speaking of what makes a 307 00:17:18,080 --> 00:17:21,920 Speaker 1: good therapist, Yeah, what makes a good therapist? Like should 308 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:24,919 Speaker 1: you as if somebody is new to therapy and they're like, 309 00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:27,720 Speaker 1: how do I know this person is right for me? 310 00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:30,119 Speaker 1: Is this person going to help me? Is this person 311 00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:33,040 Speaker 1: good at their job? But like what do we and 312 00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:33,879 Speaker 1: should we look out for? 313 00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:35,800 Speaker 2: Yeah? I think that goes back to what we were 314 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:38,800 Speaker 2: talking about earlier in terms of, you know, should you 315 00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:42,240 Speaker 2: go to therapy before becoming a therapist? And that's really 316 00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:45,959 Speaker 2: why I highly recommend that because it ties into what 317 00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:49,520 Speaker 2: makes a good therapist. So I think a good therapist 318 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:53,760 Speaker 2: has done a lot of that self examination prior to 319 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:58,520 Speaker 2: becoming a therapist and doing that work, or at least concurrently, 320 00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:02,920 Speaker 2: whenever ourronments in our program is that our students have 321 00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:08,120 Speaker 2: to complete at least fifty hours of individual psychotherapy while 322 00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:12,800 Speaker 2: completing their program because the training that we give them 323 00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:17,239 Speaker 2: brings up so much stuff and so much sometimes like 324 00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:19,800 Speaker 2: baggage for people that we want to make sure they're 325 00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:23,000 Speaker 2: kind of like sorting out before they are seeing clients, 326 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:29,120 Speaker 2: because you know, it's impossible to predict what clients bring 327 00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:33,840 Speaker 2: into the room with you, and the therapist can easily 328 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:39,280 Speaker 2: be triggered just as much as the client. A lot 329 00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:43,160 Speaker 2: of therapists again, are kind of bringing in their own wounds, 330 00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:49,800 Speaker 2: family stories, belief systems, religious beliefs, political beliefs, and if 331 00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:56,560 Speaker 2: those go unexamined, they can harm the client relationship. Therapists 332 00:18:56,640 --> 00:19:01,080 Speaker 2: might recommend a client to do something based on their 333 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:03,399 Speaker 2: lived experience, and that might not be what's best for 334 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:08,000 Speaker 2: that particular client, right, A good therapist has to be 335 00:19:08,119 --> 00:19:13,480 Speaker 2: capable of being wrong. Right, just because you have extensive training, 336 00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:15,880 Speaker 2: that doesn't mean that you're always going to know what's 337 00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:18,720 Speaker 2: best for your clients. Sometimes I even tell students, once 338 00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:21,919 Speaker 2: you think that you know what's best for your client, 339 00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:26,480 Speaker 2: that's a red flag, right because even if you have 340 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:32,280 Speaker 2: shared identities. We have no idea, right what this person 341 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:33,720 Speaker 2: is really experiencing. 342 00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:37,240 Speaker 1: I love that, My god, once you think you know 343 00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:41,399 Speaker 1: what's right, that's a red flag, absolutely just and it 344 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:43,399 Speaker 1: just kind of is like a I think there's no 345 00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:48,680 Speaker 1: room for ego arrogance on either end when you are 346 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:52,719 Speaker 1: in therapy, right. I also like that Alliance does that, 347 00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:55,879 Speaker 1: like fifty hours of like you have to complete fifty 348 00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:58,720 Speaker 1: hours of therapy to become a therapist. Seems like such 349 00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:02,240 Speaker 1: a of course, that's such a sensical idea, and I 350 00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:05,040 Speaker 1: haven't heard of many programs doing that, So that. 351 00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:07,520 Speaker 2: Is yeah, and you can do it, you know. We 352 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:09,720 Speaker 2: tell our students it could be individual but it could 353 00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:12,720 Speaker 2: also be a couple therapy, or it could be family therapy, 354 00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:14,639 Speaker 2: like maybe sometimes our students want to go back and 355 00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:17,479 Speaker 2: do therapy with their parents to figure out with some 356 00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:21,600 Speaker 2: of these you know, issues that they want to work through. 357 00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:25,040 Speaker 2: Might be But I think again, also, a good therapist 358 00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:27,640 Speaker 2: is just someone who's willing to be wrong, somebody who's 359 00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:31,320 Speaker 2: really curious and genuinely right wants to learn about you 360 00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:35,560 Speaker 2: and your story, versus assuming that they already know right 361 00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:38,359 Speaker 2: what your problem is and what you should be working 362 00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:42,399 Speaker 2: on and a good therapist, i'd lastly say, also always 363 00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:45,720 Speaker 2: has a map. They have direction of where they want 364 00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:49,960 Speaker 2: to go with what you are bringing in. A good therapist. 365 00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:52,399 Speaker 2: A bad therapist, I would say, is someone who's just 366 00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:56,000 Speaker 2: kind of like listening and validating. I've had friends tell 367 00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:58,480 Speaker 2: me like, oh, well, my therapist just agrees with me 368 00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:02,199 Speaker 2: and they don't really like say much in session, and 369 00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:04,600 Speaker 2: that's also a red flag for me. I'm like, you know, 370 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:07,800 Speaker 2: a good therapist should be able to also disagree. They 371 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:11,280 Speaker 2: should be able to challenge, right that our job isn't 372 00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:14,960 Speaker 2: to just like listen and nod. Our job is to 373 00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:16,680 Speaker 2: kind of go back to one of my earlier points, 374 00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:18,840 Speaker 2: which was like, we want to interrupt those patterns that 375 00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:22,399 Speaker 2: are keeping you stuck, and sometimes that requires challenging you. 376 00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:25,680 Speaker 2: And I just asked that client's trust that we're trying 377 00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:27,960 Speaker 2: to come from a good place. It's not that we are, 378 00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:31,199 Speaker 2: you know, trying to pull you around in session, but 379 00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:33,760 Speaker 2: we are trying to help you think about things differently. 380 00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:37,240 Speaker 1: So this really leads super well into my next question, 381 00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:42,320 Speaker 1: which is I hear a lot especially from maybe my parents' 382 00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:45,520 Speaker 1: generation as well, or even just people actually from everybody 383 00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:47,959 Speaker 1: which is I don't need therapy. I have my friends. 384 00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:51,119 Speaker 1: I have my friends, and I talk to them. I 385 00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:53,320 Speaker 1: think you mentioned like your friends. Obviously, if your friend 386 00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:56,879 Speaker 1: turned around and was like, I'm gonna I'm going to 387 00:21:56,960 --> 00:21:59,479 Speaker 1: correct you or I'm going to tell you that you're wrong, 388 00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:04,520 Speaker 1: it would probably feel very difficult to hear. I think 389 00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:08,040 Speaker 1: what a lot of people probably want to know is 390 00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:12,240 Speaker 1: what is actually happening in therapy that makes it different 391 00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:15,399 Speaker 1: from just talking to your friends, Like, is it you 392 00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:18,080 Speaker 1: know you're talking to a stranger, why does that seem 393 00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:20,280 Speaker 1: to work? Is it the talking, is it the strategies, 394 00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:22,520 Speaker 1: is it the knowledge like or is it something else? 395 00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:26,280 Speaker 2: Yeah? Absolutely. When I'm doing admissions to bring people into 396 00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:29,560 Speaker 2: the program, we'll ask people, you know, what makes you 397 00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:31,760 Speaker 2: want to be a therapist, and they'll say, well, my 398 00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:35,160 Speaker 2: friends have always said that I'm a good listener, and 399 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:39,119 Speaker 2: that is, you know, a good quality. That is something 400 00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:42,600 Speaker 2: that we want from therapists that they're able to listen. 401 00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:46,720 Speaker 2: And there's just so much more, right, there's so much 402 00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:50,639 Speaker 2: more training that people need if they really want to 403 00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:56,199 Speaker 2: practice therapy. When you meet a therapist and you're starting 404 00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:58,359 Speaker 2: that work with them, like there's a whole treatment plan 405 00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:02,280 Speaker 2: that they have to create before working with you, and 406 00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:04,400 Speaker 2: that treatment plan is really what's going to give them 407 00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:07,119 Speaker 2: that direction and map of knowing how to help you 408 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:11,600 Speaker 2: towards your goal. They probably should also have like a 409 00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:15,879 Speaker 2: theoretical orientation that they're practicing from, and again that's going 410 00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:19,000 Speaker 2: to vary depending on if you're working with a social worker, 411 00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:22,679 Speaker 2: a psychiatrist, a psychologists and mft. So there's just like 412 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:26,400 Speaker 2: so much again like training that goes into it. And 413 00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:30,880 Speaker 2: another stark difference is that I think friends, even though 414 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:32,560 Speaker 2: they are I think a lot of the times trying 415 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:35,960 Speaker 2: to remain as like quote unquote unbiased as possible, Like, 416 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:38,280 Speaker 2: they still have a stake in the relationship with you. 417 00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:41,120 Speaker 2: There's an investment. They don't want to hurt your feelings 418 00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:42,720 Speaker 2: a lot of the times, and right justly so, they're 419 00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:46,000 Speaker 2: your friend, right they're looking out for you, and a 420 00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:49,120 Speaker 2: therapist isn't necessarily going to hurt your feelings. But again, 421 00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:52,080 Speaker 2: they should be able to be in a position where 422 00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:57,840 Speaker 2: they can challenge you and offer an outsider perspective. Right 423 00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:00,600 Speaker 2: that Also, I think sometimes like friends can we're kind 424 00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:04,600 Speaker 2: of looking at things from the outside in, and I 425 00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:06,560 Speaker 2: think that that is really helpful for people who are 426 00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:12,600 Speaker 2: feeling stuck versus getting input from somebody who has has 427 00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:14,600 Speaker 2: a lens of like seeing them in their day to 428 00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:15,399 Speaker 2: day life. 429 00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:18,560 Speaker 1: So when somebody walks into like a therapist's office for 430 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:22,320 Speaker 1: the first time, you're speaking about this treatment plan or 431 00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:25,960 Speaker 1: it's like just like a framework, or they want a 432 00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:28,360 Speaker 1: direction to your treatment, right, they want to know where 433 00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:30,640 Speaker 1: they're going. They're trying to figure out, as you said, 434 00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:36,800 Speaker 1: where you sit in like a broader environmental, social context, history, 435 00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:40,320 Speaker 1: all these things. What can you expect is somebody, what 436 00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:42,359 Speaker 1: kind of questions are you going to be asked? What 437 00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:45,119 Speaker 1: kind of things are going to come up in the 438 00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:46,360 Speaker 1: first couple of sessions. 439 00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:49,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think a lot of it will be based 440 00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:51,960 Speaker 2: on the past, and then some of it will be 441 00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:55,800 Speaker 2: based on the present. So usually one of the first 442 00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:58,679 Speaker 2: questions that I ask is, you know, tell me what 443 00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:02,840 Speaker 2: brings to brings you to therapy? Now, what is it 444 00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:06,960 Speaker 2: about what you're experiencing that is making you want to 445 00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:10,359 Speaker 2: seek help in this present moment? And again that gives 446 00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:12,520 Speaker 2: me usually like a good picture of what is happening 447 00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:14,439 Speaker 2: in the hearing. Now, Oh, well, it's because I can't 448 00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:17,920 Speaker 2: sleep well or again, I keep dating the same guy 449 00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:20,000 Speaker 2: over and over again. I just went through a breakup, 450 00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:23,480 Speaker 2: and then I'll ask questions more about the past. So 451 00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:25,800 Speaker 2: tell me a little bit about your family life. And 452 00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:28,640 Speaker 2: they're pretty open ended so that the person can really 453 00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:31,840 Speaker 2: like take them anywhere. It's really rare that we're asking 454 00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:35,800 Speaker 2: like very specific, detail oriented questions because we want to 455 00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:39,879 Speaker 2: hear your story. Right, I tell my clients, you know, 456 00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:44,480 Speaker 2: you have lived your life for thirty five years, forty years. 457 00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:48,680 Speaker 2: You are the expert in your story and I am 458 00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:51,040 Speaker 2: going to be a witness to that. Right, you really 459 00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:53,199 Speaker 2: are the expert here. I'm just here to kind of 460 00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:55,560 Speaker 2: like listen and help you figure things out. So we 461 00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:57,600 Speaker 2: want to hear that story. Tell me a little bit 462 00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:02,000 Speaker 2: about what your life was like growing up and what 463 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:04,600 Speaker 2: were what were some of the messages that your parents 464 00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:10,560 Speaker 2: sent you around love, around apologizing. How do you think 465 00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:13,720 Speaker 2: that's playing into what you're experiencing now? So I think again, 466 00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:16,360 Speaker 2: it's a little bit of both. It's like tying the 467 00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:18,959 Speaker 2: past to the present and kind of going back and 468 00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:21,399 Speaker 2: forth and seeing kind of like where the client lives 469 00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:22,960 Speaker 2: again in the here and now. 470 00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:26,479 Speaker 1: And I like that you said, it's it's kind of 471 00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:30,159 Speaker 1: like a write your own story situation. Right, it's very 472 00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:34,520 Speaker 1: much like that they're not going to a therapist, isn't 473 00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:37,000 Speaker 1: going to find ways to trick you. I think that's 474 00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:39,480 Speaker 1: a big thing, like they that's not going to help them, 475 00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:41,840 Speaker 1: Like trying to trick you into admitting things, trying to 476 00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:45,200 Speaker 1: you know, double cross you, or like suddenly make big 477 00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:50,399 Speaker 1: revelations about your life, is actually like therapeutically unhelpful. So 478 00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:52,200 Speaker 1: that's just something I'm sure. 479 00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:55,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like we're not really supposed to wear like 480 00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:59,680 Speaker 2: the detective hats. We're not trying to catch a lot 481 00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:02,600 Speaker 2: a client lying. Like when we're working with substance use, 482 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:04,879 Speaker 2: a lot of the times clients will say, you know, 483 00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:10,400 Speaker 2: like I'm not using, and sometimes they are right because 484 00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:14,000 Speaker 2: recovery is hard, and our job isn't to figure out 485 00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:16,879 Speaker 2: whether or not a client is telling the truth. Again, 486 00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:20,600 Speaker 2: our job is to listen. Again. Sure, we're going to challenge, 487 00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:25,560 Speaker 2: right if there's discrepancy sometimes if things aren't matching up, 488 00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:28,520 Speaker 2: because we want to interrupt those patterns. But our job 489 00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:31,760 Speaker 2: isn't to be an investigator, right. Our job isn't to 490 00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:35,200 Speaker 2: be a police officer and tell you what is wrong. 491 00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:38,399 Speaker 2: Tell you what is right, kind of taking on that 492 00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:42,040 Speaker 2: carcoral kind of like perspective. Our job is again, like 493 00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:46,520 Speaker 2: you said, to focus on that story. Listen. Some therapists 494 00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:48,960 Speaker 2: that are like narrative therapists will even say, like, our 495 00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:51,600 Speaker 2: job is to help you rewrite that story, be a 496 00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:56,040 Speaker 2: co author to that story, and write your preferred story, right, 497 00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:57,360 Speaker 2: the one that you want to live. 498 00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:04,960 Speaker 1: Love that, big fan. Let's talk about therapy and stigma. 499 00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:11,640 Speaker 1: Something we've said a lot throughout this is, you know, well, 500 00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:14,800 Speaker 1: your parents didn't go to therapy, and there's a lot 501 00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:17,240 Speaker 1: of people who come in and they wish their families 502 00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:19,560 Speaker 1: had gone to therapy and they haven't, or people saying 503 00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:22,200 Speaker 1: I don't need that, I have my friends. Why do 504 00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:26,760 Speaker 1: some people and some communities still see therapy is something 505 00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:29,359 Speaker 1: that is only for people in cristis or something that 506 00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:34,800 Speaker 1: is unnecessary full stop. Where does that come from? 507 00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:37,399 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that that is really just like the 508 00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:44,080 Speaker 2: dominant narrative that we have socially constructed in a lot 509 00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:46,760 Speaker 2: of parts of the world. So I think for some 510 00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:50,360 Speaker 2: specific culturals that are just like so taboo to ask 511 00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:55,480 Speaker 2: for any kind of help, for medical help, for psychiatric help, 512 00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:59,080 Speaker 2: just because certain cultures just believe that that is not appropriate. 513 00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:02,560 Speaker 2: Some cultures will believe like you solve your problems within 514 00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:05,479 Speaker 2: your family, for example, the only people that should know 515 00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:08,600 Speaker 2: that you are in pain, that you're in emotional distress 516 00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:12,960 Speaker 2: are your family members. So that's definitely like something that 517 00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:16,240 Speaker 2: I see quite often. And then I think that there's 518 00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:19,040 Speaker 2: also just like other bigger social messages, like around gender, 519 00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:24,560 Speaker 2: for example, how we socialize men to believe that they're 520 00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:29,479 Speaker 2: not supposed to cry, that emotional expression means that they 521 00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:33,840 Speaker 2: are weak, that they're going to be a burden. And 522 00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:37,000 Speaker 2: even to women, right, I think that we can send 523 00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:40,120 Speaker 2: messages that are really conflicting because we do expect women 524 00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:44,280 Speaker 2: to be emotional and like soft and nurturing and maternal, 525 00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:47,960 Speaker 2: and at the same time we expect them to keep going, right, 526 00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:54,240 Speaker 2: we overburden them with tasks and psychological labor, and so 527 00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:56,880 Speaker 2: it's hard even if you kind of want to get help, 528 00:29:57,080 --> 00:30:00,360 Speaker 2: to ask for it, because you're expected to keep the 529 00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:04,440 Speaker 2: world moving, keep your family moving, keep society moving. And 530 00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:06,760 Speaker 2: so I just I think that all of those messages 531 00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:11,000 Speaker 2: that we send people can really confuse them, is what 532 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:14,080 Speaker 2: I'm feeling. Valid Is it enough to ask for help? 533 00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:17,960 Speaker 2: My culture says that it is, you know, not right. 534 00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:20,800 Speaker 2: My community is telling me that it's not right, and 535 00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:23,880 Speaker 2: so it is really hard to get people to finally 536 00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:27,280 Speaker 2: do it again. I'm a victim to that. Like I 537 00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:30,720 Speaker 2: didn't go to therapy until my mid twenty late twenties. 538 00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:33,479 Speaker 2: I think it was almost and it was a career 539 00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:36,719 Speaker 2: that I was pursuing, and I was still nervous. I 540 00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:39,040 Speaker 2: was still nervous, like when am I going to uncover? 541 00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:41,280 Speaker 2: And is that going to mean X, Y and Z 542 00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:44,920 Speaker 2: about me? So again, I think it's like these just 543 00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:48,160 Speaker 2: big kind of social messages, cultural messages that we send people, 544 00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:50,520 Speaker 2: and you'd be surprised because I do think we've made 545 00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:53,120 Speaker 2: a lot of strides. Like it's twenty twenty six. Mental 546 00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:56,240 Speaker 2: health is pretty widely talked about, but we're still seeing 547 00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:58,800 Speaker 2: so many people and young people even say I'm too 548 00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:01,280 Speaker 2: nervous to go see. 549 00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:04,120 Speaker 1: Obviously a lot of my friends a therapists because we 550 00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:07,000 Speaker 1: all went to school together, right, you know, I studied psychology, 551 00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:11,800 Speaker 1: and something I hear all the time from friends will 552 00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:14,080 Speaker 1: be like, oh, you know, I had three patients just 553 00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:17,760 Speaker 1: like not show up, like made appointments and get so 554 00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:20,280 Speaker 1: close and then just feel like they can't take that 555 00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:23,360 Speaker 1: next step, and sometimes it takes a couple of times 556 00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:27,400 Speaker 1: to feel ready, to feel ready to kind of take 557 00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:29,800 Speaker 1: a peek behind the door. So I think the fact 558 00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:32,440 Speaker 1: that like, if you're even listening to this episode considering therapy, 559 00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:36,480 Speaker 1: you the listener, you have made it so far on 560 00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:38,960 Speaker 1: that journey as something that is like available to you 561 00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:45,240 Speaker 1: and something that you're considering for someone who can't afford therapy, 562 00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:47,480 Speaker 1: Because we've got there's a couple of barriers here, like 563 00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:51,320 Speaker 1: it's difficult. There is the internal battle of like do 564 00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:54,080 Speaker 1: I do this, as the cultural battle of like if 565 00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:56,520 Speaker 1: you do this, we will think this of you. And 566 00:31:56,560 --> 00:32:00,000 Speaker 1: then there's just an availability issue for someone who can't 567 00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:06,440 Speaker 1: currently afford therapy, what are some meaningful alternatives or starting 568 00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:09,360 Speaker 1: points before that becomes available? 569 00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:14,960 Speaker 2: So if therapy is completely inaccessible, which it is to 570 00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:18,560 Speaker 2: a lot of people, I would encourage you to kind 571 00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:21,760 Speaker 2: of look at your current support systems. So I know 572 00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:24,600 Speaker 2: we also talked about like, well, friends shouldn't be doing therapy, 573 00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:30,080 Speaker 2: but I would rather somebody be able to vent and 574 00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:34,240 Speaker 2: open up to another any other human being, right instead 575 00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:38,560 Speaker 2: of carrying this pain and distress on their own. So 576 00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:42,960 Speaker 2: for example, if somebody is having suicidal thoughts and therapy 577 00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:46,280 Speaker 2: is completely inaccessible, I would rather than be able to 578 00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:48,600 Speaker 2: turn to a trusted friend and say, you know what, 579 00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:51,920 Speaker 2: I'm carrying these feelings with me. I think I need help. 580 00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:55,920 Speaker 2: That is a starting point, right at least somebody else 581 00:32:56,160 --> 00:33:01,000 Speaker 2: knows that you are in trouble. Another a suggestion would 582 00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:03,440 Speaker 2: be like relaying, I don't know. Some people are religious. 583 00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:10,600 Speaker 2: Faith communities can be really helpful in navigating painful experiences. 584 00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:13,720 Speaker 2: A lot of the immigrant communities that I work with, 585 00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:17,480 Speaker 2: because therapy is so taboo, they'll tell me I went 586 00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:20,440 Speaker 2: to church and prayed about this, I went and talked 587 00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:22,640 Speaker 2: to a pastor about this and they were actually really helpful. 588 00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:24,880 Speaker 2: Or I went and talked to another church goer and 589 00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:27,360 Speaker 2: they really helped me through this dark time. They were 590 00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:30,880 Speaker 2: able to bring themselves to access that kind of help 591 00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:36,880 Speaker 2: before actually seeking out therapeutic services. And again, that is amazing. 592 00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:40,320 Speaker 2: Like you said, it's a starting point. So I think 593 00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:42,840 Speaker 2: first just kind of like reaching out to your local 594 00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:45,240 Speaker 2: network and saying, you know, I'm feeling this way, I 595 00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:48,440 Speaker 2: need help. Starting there, and a lot of the times 596 00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:50,920 Speaker 2: my experience has also been that like once people start 597 00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:54,080 Speaker 2: reaching out to others and saying I'm experiencing X, Y 598 00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:57,520 Speaker 2: and Z. They connect them to resources because there are 599 00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:01,600 Speaker 2: a lot of resources that offer free therapy. There's so many, 600 00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:05,360 Speaker 2: And you know, if any of your listeners are interested, 601 00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:07,200 Speaker 2: they can reach out to me directly, and I'm happy 602 00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:09,279 Speaker 2: to kind of point them in the right direction. But 603 00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:12,399 Speaker 2: it's not impossible. And there's so many therapists who are 604 00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:14,520 Speaker 2: just like willing again to donate their time and doing 605 00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:18,799 Speaker 2: good work and just helping people make therapy accessible, that 606 00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:20,800 Speaker 2: we can find a way to get people connected. 607 00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:25,399 Speaker 1: This is a great segue speaking of therapists who want 608 00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:28,440 Speaker 1: to help people. I also think this is a big thing. 609 00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:33,799 Speaker 1: I think very few therapists get into this for any 610 00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:36,759 Speaker 1: kind of selfish reason. Right, you have to study for 611 00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:39,880 Speaker 1: so long, there's so much that you have to learn. 612 00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:44,760 Speaker 1: I know, we spoke about people who come to Alliance 613 00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:48,200 Speaker 1: and who apply and they're like, Oh, my friends just 614 00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:51,319 Speaker 1: always want to talk to me. They I'm just such 615 00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:53,520 Speaker 1: a good listener. Strangers on the street tell me stuff 616 00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:57,760 Speaker 1: all the time speaking of like wanting to become a therapist. 617 00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:00,440 Speaker 1: People like that. Do you think that some people just 618 00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:04,920 Speaker 1: born to help others in this way or what's your 619 00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:06,200 Speaker 1: take on that. Do you think that there are some 620 00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:09,000 Speaker 1: people who are just like, oh, of course, that is 621 00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:10,080 Speaker 1: like your purpose. 622 00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:15,520 Speaker 2: I think it's kind of like twofold. I think that 623 00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:19,200 Speaker 2: there are some people that are born knowing that they 624 00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:22,560 Speaker 2: want to help others, that they want to dedicate their 625 00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:26,279 Speaker 2: lives to helping others in some way, shape or form, 626 00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:29,680 Speaker 2: whether that's being through like being a medical doctor, being 627 00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:33,759 Speaker 2: a social worker, being a teacher, being a nurse. They 628 00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:39,240 Speaker 2: just there's this desire to help, right, And I think 629 00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:42,920 Speaker 2: that you also don't have to be like a natural 630 00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:48,560 Speaker 2: born listener or good talker to be a therapist, Like 631 00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:52,560 Speaker 2: I want to empower people that if they were quiet 632 00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:55,280 Speaker 2: their whole lives, for example, and are just like super 633 00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:58,000 Speaker 2: shy and introverted, like, you can still learn how to 634 00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:01,799 Speaker 2: be a good therapist. If you are somebody who maybe 635 00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:03,800 Speaker 2: they said, you know, you talk too much in class, 636 00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:06,879 Speaker 2: you socialize too much, We're just a big talker, you're 637 00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:10,480 Speaker 2: very outgoing. You could be a good therapist. Right, And 638 00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:14,120 Speaker 2: so the skill is teachable, right, the skill is teachable. 639 00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:17,360 Speaker 2: We can train you how to hone in on certain 640 00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:21,239 Speaker 2: traits and how to highlight certain skills. So I want 641 00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:22,920 Speaker 2: to empower people, like, if this is something that you 642 00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:27,560 Speaker 2: want to approach, it's possible, even if maybe you got 643 00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:31,200 Speaker 2: messages sent throughout your life that would contradict that. And 644 00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:33,080 Speaker 2: I think that there is people who were just born 645 00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:35,879 Speaker 2: to help. And so if you're both great, right, if 646 00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:38,520 Speaker 2: you were feeling like I was put on this earth 647 00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:43,960 Speaker 2: to help people and I want to be taught this skill, wonderful. 648 00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:47,040 Speaker 2: But if you land on either of the spectrum to 649 00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:50,080 Speaker 2: know that it's still possible, I guess that's kind of 650 00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:51,040 Speaker 2: how I want to answer that. 651 00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:53,560 Speaker 1: I love that answer, kind of not gonna lie. I 652 00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:56,920 Speaker 1: set you up for that answer because I was like, 653 00:36:56,960 --> 00:36:59,239 Speaker 1: I feel the same way. I think also, you'd be 654 00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:01,880 Speaker 1: surprised some people, well who you think would be amazing therapists, 655 00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:06,200 Speaker 1: really struggle because you know, like you said, like you 656 00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:09,799 Speaker 1: can't help everybody. Oh, they used to dealing with a 657 00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:13,040 Speaker 1: specific kind of of individual who was just like them, 658 00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:15,879 Speaker 1: and you know, can't apply that to everybody else. 659 00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:18,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think another yeah, sorry, justum. Another good example 660 00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:22,279 Speaker 2: is like people who have been in recovery, like a 661 00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:24,720 Speaker 2: lot of people who struggled with addiction, Like I imagine 662 00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:27,800 Speaker 2: that throughout their life they were probably sent really bad 663 00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:31,320 Speaker 2: messages about who they are and their character and whatnot, 664 00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:35,239 Speaker 2: and they end up making amazing therapists, like people in 665 00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:39,640 Speaker 2: recovery are amazing therapists because they have that lived experience 666 00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:43,680 Speaker 2: that really can bring a lot of expertise. And so 667 00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:46,360 Speaker 2: again I think that if you are somebody who's just 668 00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:49,400 Speaker 2: like really interested in pursuing this, really not listen to 669 00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:54,000 Speaker 2: a lot of that like outside noise and ask, get mentorship, 670 00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:59,320 Speaker 2: get the training, and you know, the world is your oyster. 671 00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:03,399 Speaker 1: After that, let's talk about a lot because you went 672 00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:06,080 Speaker 1: to school there and now you teach that you've been 673 00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:10,239 Speaker 1: with them, But like when did you start thirteen years ago? 674 00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:14,880 Speaker 1: You said, how did they kind of prepare you? And 675 00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:19,320 Speaker 1: how do they continue to prepare people to work effectively 676 00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:22,760 Speaker 1: as therapists? Like what's unique about this program? 677 00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:26,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's probably would highlight like three things. 678 00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:30,680 Speaker 2: Number one is like mentorship. I think something that sets 679 00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:34,080 Speaker 2: the line apart is like outstanding mentorship. Because we are 680 00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:36,279 Speaker 2: a smaller school, You're not going to be in a 681 00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:40,040 Speaker 2: classroom with one hundred and fifty people, so the professor 682 00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:42,440 Speaker 2: is going to know every single student, which I think 683 00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:45,600 Speaker 2: gives a lot of opportunity again for them to get 684 00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:48,359 Speaker 2: to know you and know your goals and reach out 685 00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:50,799 Speaker 2: for reach out to you if you were struggling or 686 00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:54,520 Speaker 2: want extra help. I really feel like for me as 687 00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:57,799 Speaker 2: a first gen college student, like that's what really made 688 00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:00,200 Speaker 2: a huge difference for me was that my professor or 689 00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:03,279 Speaker 2: doctor Davis, who's in our Sacramento campus. I always give 690 00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:05,880 Speaker 2: him a shout out. He changed my life because he 691 00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:08,680 Speaker 2: actually took the time to find out what I wanted 692 00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:11,719 Speaker 2: to do and helped me answer a lot of questions 693 00:39:11,719 --> 00:39:14,640 Speaker 2: that I wouldn't have had answered if I was kind 694 00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:17,279 Speaker 2: of doing this on my own. So I think that's one. 695 00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:21,080 Speaker 2: Number two is like bridging the like clinical training with 696 00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:25,759 Speaker 2: like practical real world training. So yes, we'd like teach 697 00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:29,600 Speaker 2: you all of the theories, you get really good paper knowledge, 698 00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:32,600 Speaker 2: but then we also give you the opportunity to apply 699 00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:36,719 Speaker 2: it and give you so much supervision and mentorship while 700 00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:39,160 Speaker 2: doing it. So it's like a balance, right, And so 701 00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:41,200 Speaker 2: you're getting all of your book knowledge and then you 702 00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:43,879 Speaker 2: were getting that bridge to like actually going out there 703 00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:46,799 Speaker 2: and seeing clients and applying everything that you know. I 704 00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:48,560 Speaker 2: feel like Aligance does a really good job at that 705 00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:51,719 Speaker 2: and then the last part is like the emphasis on diversity. 706 00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:54,720 Speaker 2: I think that if you are living in the United 707 00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:59,040 Speaker 2: States in this current moment, like there's a good chance 708 00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:01,360 Speaker 2: that you are going to be working with diverse groups 709 00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:05,400 Speaker 2: because the United States is changing so incredibly fast. I mean, 710 00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:09,440 Speaker 2: the whole world really is right globally, and Alignance does 711 00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:12,880 Speaker 2: such a good job at preparing students to work with 712 00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:16,680 Speaker 2: diverse populations. Again, we're asking you, you know, are you 713 00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:21,239 Speaker 2: examining these biases? Our cohorts are so incredibly diverse, Like 714 00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:25,520 Speaker 2: my cohorts I have. I'll have like a twenty three 715 00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:30,799 Speaker 2: year old fresh college grad sitting next to seventy year 716 00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:38,040 Speaker 2: old retired attorney. The cohorts are just so different, and 717 00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:40,400 Speaker 2: the students are so different, and so they're bringing in 718 00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:44,200 Speaker 2: that lived experience. They're talking about their stories in class, 719 00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:48,279 Speaker 2: and so you're getting exposure right to all of these 720 00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:51,640 Speaker 2: different stories. And I just I think that align does 721 00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:53,719 Speaker 2: such a good job about the professors diverse. I mean, 722 00:40:53,719 --> 00:40:56,600 Speaker 2: I can go on and on about how well we 723 00:40:56,680 --> 00:40:59,440 Speaker 2: prepare students for the current landscape. 724 00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:03,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that, And obviously, flipping to the other side, 725 00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:05,960 Speaker 1: like the people listening to this who want to be therapists. 726 00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:09,440 Speaker 1: What can you expect from learning to be a therapist? 727 00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:11,160 Speaker 1: Birth it online and just in general. 728 00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:14,319 Speaker 2: Yes, so I know I keep harping on this, but 729 00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:18,320 Speaker 2: really doing that, like self examination, is such a big part. 730 00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:22,880 Speaker 2: It is painful in some ways, but I promise you 731 00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:25,560 Speaker 2: will come out a better person on the other side 732 00:41:26,120 --> 00:41:29,040 Speaker 2: once you take a good look at your story with 733 00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:32,360 Speaker 2: genuine curiosity and a critical lens. So you'll do a 734 00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:35,240 Speaker 2: lot of that, like examining your family, examining your past, 735 00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:38,520 Speaker 2: and then also of course like learning different models that 736 00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:43,319 Speaker 2: will help you really understand how human behavior works again 737 00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:46,080 Speaker 2: within that relational context, So you'll learn a lot of 738 00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:52,200 Speaker 2: the foundational theories about human behavior, and you'll learn a 739 00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:54,560 Speaker 2: lot of those like listening skills that we also kind 740 00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:57,040 Speaker 2: of talked about today, like how to be a good listener, 741 00:41:57,320 --> 00:41:59,560 Speaker 2: because it's so much more than just kind of having 742 00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:02,040 Speaker 2: your ears open, right. There is a lot of like 743 00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:05,600 Speaker 2: reflective listening. So you'll learn so many things. But I 744 00:42:05,600 --> 00:42:09,719 Speaker 2: think that the best part is learning a lot about yourself, 745 00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:17,120 Speaker 2: Like I am a much better wife, daughter, friend, mom 746 00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:23,399 Speaker 2: because I'm a therapist, because I'm constantly asking myself why 747 00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:26,000 Speaker 2: did this happen? Well, why did I say this? How 748 00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:27,840 Speaker 2: could I have done that better? Right? So, like that 749 00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:30,600 Speaker 2: self reflection I think just makes you such a good 750 00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:33,839 Speaker 2: human being. So even though it's hard to move through 751 00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:37,040 Speaker 2: that while you're in training, in the end, I think again, 752 00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:42,200 Speaker 2: you just come out so much more of a self 753 00:42:42,200 --> 00:42:44,319 Speaker 2: aware person because of it. 754 00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:47,239 Speaker 1: I love that. I've want two more questions for you. 755 00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:49,680 Speaker 1: Want to do with therapy and then want to do 756 00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:53,680 Speaker 1: purely with you as a person. What kind of inspires 757 00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:56,480 Speaker 1: you about this field at the moment and the people 758 00:42:56,480 --> 00:42:58,920 Speaker 1: who are entering it. What is something to kind of 759 00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:01,800 Speaker 1: look forward to when it comes to the therapy space. 760 00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:06,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good question. I think. You know, I 761 00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:10,239 Speaker 2: have the privilege of seeing new waves of therapists come 762 00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:13,520 Speaker 2: in every single year because I'm a professor and we 763 00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:17,239 Speaker 2: teach you know, a different gohurt every single year, And 764 00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:21,879 Speaker 2: it is really inspiring to see so many people come 765 00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:24,840 Speaker 2: in every single year genuinely wanting to make a difference 766 00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:30,880 Speaker 2: in the world, genuinely wanting to be people that can 767 00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:35,120 Speaker 2: hold space for people who are experiencing like trauma and pain. 768 00:43:35,239 --> 00:43:37,200 Speaker 2: So like, just like the fact that we have so 769 00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:42,319 Speaker 2: many helpers to me is so incredibly inspiring. Because the 770 00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:45,239 Speaker 2: world can be a place right where there is so 771 00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:48,840 Speaker 2: much pain and trauma. The fact that we have so 772 00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:53,719 Speaker 2: many people with a desire to change that to meet 773 00:43:53,719 --> 00:43:57,960 Speaker 2: it with kindness and warmth and love is so incredibly 774 00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:00,719 Speaker 2: inspiring to me and wants me to keep going year 775 00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:03,719 Speaker 2: after year in terms of my teaching. And then what 776 00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:05,759 Speaker 2: was the other part of that question, Gemma? 777 00:44:05,840 --> 00:44:08,439 Speaker 1: Honestly, I think you answered it super well. I feel 778 00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:12,000 Speaker 1: like I love that and I love that you Honestly, 779 00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:14,359 Speaker 1: it would be just such a great experience just being 780 00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:17,000 Speaker 1: on the frontline of people who you were just sending 781 00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:19,640 Speaker 1: out to just like help. I feel like that'd be 782 00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:21,640 Speaker 1: a really great place to be. Right now, It's like 783 00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:25,759 Speaker 1: and the world is just so chaotic and awful and 784 00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:27,600 Speaker 1: just being like, oh, and then here are these people 785 00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:30,680 Speaker 1: who just really want to help people, right I can't 786 00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:34,239 Speaker 1: imagine it. Final question. This is a question we ask 787 00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:37,400 Speaker 1: every single guest, and it has literally nothing to do 788 00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:40,560 Speaker 1: with what we spoke about today. Maybe one percent of 789 00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:42,759 Speaker 1: what we spoke about today make up in this question, 790 00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:46,200 Speaker 1: which is, what is one thing you wish you knew 791 00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:49,880 Speaker 1: in your twenties that has nothing to do with what 792 00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:51,200 Speaker 1: we spoke about In this episode. 793 00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:55,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, one thing that I wish I knew was like 794 00:44:55,960 --> 00:45:00,879 Speaker 2: that my life was just beginning, and I reflect back 795 00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:04,520 Speaker 2: in my twenties, they felt so like finite. It felt 796 00:45:04,560 --> 00:45:07,160 Speaker 2: like I had to find the perfect partner to get 797 00:45:07,160 --> 00:45:11,080 Speaker 2: married too, I had to find the perfect career. I 798 00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:13,399 Speaker 2: had to figure out where I was going to live, 799 00:45:13,480 --> 00:45:16,120 Speaker 2: should I be buying a house. It was just like 800 00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:19,879 Speaker 2: all of these social expectations that I thought I had 801 00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:23,160 Speaker 2: to like check off, and that was just so much pressure. 802 00:45:23,239 --> 00:45:25,920 Speaker 2: When I wish I would have just expect my twenties 803 00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:29,840 Speaker 2: having fun and living life and traveling and exploring. But 804 00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:31,759 Speaker 2: I just really felt like I had to have it 805 00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:35,120 Speaker 2: all figured out. And I wish that I knew that 806 00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:38,040 Speaker 2: it was just the beginning and I could take my 807 00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:41,040 Speaker 2: time finding that perfect partner. I could find my time 808 00:45:41,080 --> 00:45:45,760 Speaker 2: finding that perfect career. I could take risks right versus 809 00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:48,759 Speaker 2: just playing it really safe and figuring out. Again, like 810 00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:50,680 Speaker 2: I just kind of had to get it all done 811 00:45:50,680 --> 00:45:53,760 Speaker 2: in my twenties. So my message is like it's just starting. 812 00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:57,759 Speaker 2: It's going to get so much better, and again, the 813 00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:01,640 Speaker 2: world is your oyster, and it's just going to be amazing, 814 00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:03,239 Speaker 2: you know what. 815 00:46:03,320 --> 00:46:05,120 Speaker 1: I kind of needed to hear that today. I mean, 816 00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:07,600 Speaker 1: having so many conversations with people about this, and I 817 00:46:07,640 --> 00:46:10,120 Speaker 1: love when people call on the podcast and it just 818 00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:15,239 Speaker 1: like your twenties is just the start point. So yeah, 819 00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:16,400 Speaker 1: thanks to that wonderful advice. 820 00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:16,960 Speaker 2: It's exciting. 821 00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:20,000 Speaker 1: Well yeah, I know it's scary, but exciting as well. 822 00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:24,120 Speaker 1: Thank you again for coming on the podcast. I really 823 00:46:24,160 --> 00:46:28,440 Speaker 1: appreciate you taking the time out of very meaningful and 824 00:46:29,440 --> 00:46:33,239 Speaker 1: busy work to discuss the truth about therapy with us, 825 00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:37,640 Speaker 1: discuss the stigma, discuss how to become a therapist. Is 826 00:46:37,640 --> 00:46:39,239 Speaker 1: there anything else you want to say before we wrap 827 00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:40,920 Speaker 1: up the episode? 828 00:46:41,160 --> 00:46:44,520 Speaker 2: No, just that again. I think if you are feeling 829 00:46:44,600 --> 00:46:47,080 Speaker 2: like you need help because you're not feeling you know, 830 00:46:47,160 --> 00:46:50,040 Speaker 2: emotionally well, to know that there's always going to be 831 00:46:50,040 --> 00:46:53,560 Speaker 2: someone to listen. I know it's scary, but do it anyway. 832 00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:55,880 Speaker 2: Good things happen when you're a brave. 833 00:46:57,320 --> 00:46:59,000 Speaker 1: That's a great way to end the episode. Great things 834 00:46:59,040 --> 00:47:02,040 Speaker 1: happen when you're a brave. I actually just started therapy again, 835 00:47:02,160 --> 00:47:05,799 Speaker 1: and it's hard at first, and then you just experience 836 00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:08,080 Speaker 1: it's like a bit of a fong is kind of 837 00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:11,680 Speaker 1: lifted from life, even if it's a bit difficult, so 838 00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:15,360 Speaker 1: we're gonna leave so much additional information in the description, 839 00:47:15,480 --> 00:47:20,279 Speaker 1: including where to find doctor Espinoza, information about Alliant University 840 00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:24,040 Speaker 1: and their amazing programs and the way they do things differently, 841 00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:27,080 Speaker 1: and so much more. Thank you. If you've made it 842 00:47:27,160 --> 00:47:29,360 Speaker 1: to the end, leave a comment down below. Are you 843 00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:32,279 Speaker 1: currently in therapy? I want to know yes or no? 844 00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:35,080 Speaker 1: Leave a comment if you're listening on Spotify, and as always, 845 00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:38,120 Speaker 1: be safe, be kind, be gentle with yourself. We will 846 00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:39,359 Speaker 1: talk very very soon.