1 00:00:01,760 --> 00:00:07,840 Speaker 1: Also media, Hi everyone, and welcome to it could happen here. 2 00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:11,680 Speaker 1: We are joined once again by Gillian Brockel, who is 3 00:00:11,720 --> 00:00:15,240 Speaker 1: once again going to talk to us about the terrible 4 00:00:15,360 --> 00:00:19,160 Speaker 1: actually world of deportation flights, how we can track them, 5 00:00:19,280 --> 00:00:22,840 Speaker 1: what we can learn from following them, and what it 6 00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:26,600 Speaker 1: tells us about the US's massive deportation regimes. 7 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:28,520 Speaker 2: Welcome back, Thanks for joining. 8 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:30,640 Speaker 3: Us, Thank you for having me, James, I appreciate it. 9 00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:31,360 Speaker 2: You're welcome. 10 00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:33,720 Speaker 4: All right, let's get going here this week, got a 11 00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:36,200 Speaker 4: lot to go and there's been a lot of planes supporting. 12 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:37,680 Speaker 3: People deporting and removing. 13 00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:42,239 Speaker 5: So we've really stopped saying deporting because we don't know 14 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:47,200 Speaker 5: who hasn't gotten due process and who does and does 15 00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:49,519 Speaker 5: not actually belong to the country they're being sent to. 16 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:52,680 Speaker 4: Yeah, in many cases, it's more like what we saw 17 00:00:53,360 --> 00:00:56,480 Speaker 4: in the Extraordinary Rendition, very much so kind of war 18 00:00:56,600 --> 00:00:58,360 Speaker 4: and terry. I think that's pretty a better way. 19 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:01,120 Speaker 2: To describe it. Yeah, let's start out. Suppose was Djibouti. 20 00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:07,120 Speaker 5: Yeah, so the eight men that were sent to Djibouti, 21 00:01:07,319 --> 00:01:10,800 Speaker 5: that's the flight I first tracked on May twentieth. They 22 00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:13,760 Speaker 5: were taken on a gulf Stream five operated by journey 23 00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:18,520 Speaker 5: aviation from Harling in Texas to Shannon Airport in Ireland, 24 00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:22,240 Speaker 5: and I called the cops in Ireland to try and stop. 25 00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:25,280 Speaker 5: It didn't work, and then they went to a US 26 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:28,480 Speaker 5: military base in Djibouti, where judge had ordered them to 27 00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:32,480 Speaker 5: remain while he considered their case. So those men are 28 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:36,959 Speaker 5: now in South Sudan, where Trump wanted to send them. 29 00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:41,039 Speaker 5: They were held in Jibouti for six weeks. We know 30 00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:44,880 Speaker 5: from court filings that they were held inside a shipping 31 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:48,280 Speaker 5: container in a far corner of the base, near a 32 00:01:48,320 --> 00:01:52,360 Speaker 5: burn pit where the trash for the base was burned, 33 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:55,480 Speaker 5: and that smoke from this pit was getting into the 34 00:01:55,520 --> 00:01:59,040 Speaker 5: shipping container through the events and causing the men and 35 00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:04,400 Speaker 5: the ice Gars to cough and feel ill. There was 36 00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:08,880 Speaker 5: also an independent journalist named Alex Planck who got a 37 00:02:08,919 --> 00:02:11,840 Speaker 5: photo from a source on the base showing one of 38 00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:15,799 Speaker 5: the detainees shackled at the ankles and being escorted by 39 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:19,440 Speaker 5: an ice guard to the restroom because the shipping container 40 00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:23,480 Speaker 5: did not have its own restroom. And he said that 41 00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:26,000 Speaker 5: most of the members of the military at the base 42 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:29,400 Speaker 5: didn't even know that they were there. And you know 43 00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:32,600 Speaker 5: this base is generally considered like one of the worst 44 00:02:32,639 --> 00:02:36,440 Speaker 5: assignments to get when you're in the military. Plank said 45 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:40,520 Speaker 5: he talked to a defense contractor who said that they 46 00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:43,760 Speaker 5: stopped sending their employees to that base. 47 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:46,160 Speaker 3: Because it was just too terrible. 48 00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:50,480 Speaker 5: So during the six week period, I and other flight 49 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:54,640 Speaker 5: trackers we tracked five trips by round trip trips by 50 00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:58,919 Speaker 5: Journey Aviation jets to and from their base in Miami 51 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:03,760 Speaker 5: and Djibouti, all traveling through Shannon. Presumably these were flights 52 00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:07,120 Speaker 5: that were swapping out ICE guards, but we really don't 53 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:10,839 Speaker 5: know because ICE does not provide any information about its 54 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:14,640 Speaker 5: air operations. Everything we know is through court filings and 55 00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:19,600 Speaker 5: through open source intelligence like the ADSP Exchange. Then on 56 00:03:19,720 --> 00:03:24,240 Speaker 5: July third, the Supreme Court cleared the way for these 57 00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:28,360 Speaker 5: third country removals, and this one specifically to South Sudan. 58 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:32,560 Speaker 5: All of US flight trekkers were watching the airspace really closely, 59 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:35,880 Speaker 5: and we knew that one of Journey's jets was already 60 00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:38,120 Speaker 5: there on the ground in Jibooty, so that's what we 61 00:03:38,120 --> 00:03:41,720 Speaker 5: were looking for. But then on the evening of July fifth, 62 00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:45,240 Speaker 5: about two days later, DHS announced that it was done. 63 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:50,120 Speaker 5: They had removed the detainees to Sausudan via a military 64 00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:53,880 Speaker 5: flight earlier that day. And I have gone over the 65 00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:58,920 Speaker 5: air traffic data for that region six times on adsp Exchange, 66 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:02,440 Speaker 5: and I haven't been able to spot this military flight. 67 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:06,520 Speaker 5: And granted, Djibouti is a real ADSB dead zone, but 68 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:11,400 Speaker 5: Juba isn't. Juba actually has quite good coverage, and you know, 69 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:14,440 Speaker 5: Addis Ababa also has very good coverage which they would 70 00:04:14,440 --> 00:04:17,800 Speaker 5: have had to fly over. So it's clear to me 71 00:04:18,080 --> 00:04:22,279 Speaker 5: that this military flight, if it happened as DHS claims, 72 00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:26,320 Speaker 5: probably flew the entire trip with its transponder turned off, 73 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:30,360 Speaker 5: which is something that the military can do, but it's 74 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:31,240 Speaker 5: not standard. 75 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 3: I think people would be. 76 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:37,479 Speaker 5: Surprised how rare actually it is for military flights to 77 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:40,560 Speaker 5: do that, unless they're going on a combat or spy mission. 78 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:45,320 Speaker 5: Most military aircraft fly with their transponders on. So if 79 00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:48,200 Speaker 5: you think about the Iran air strikes a couple of 80 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:51,720 Speaker 5: weeks ago, the week before the air strikes, there were 81 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:55,160 Speaker 5: thirty two Globe Masters and Strata tankers that flew from 82 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:58,040 Speaker 5: the US to bases in Europe in a single night. That, 83 00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 5: like every av geek was like whoa you know, and 84 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:04,720 Speaker 5: we knew that that happened because they flew with their 85 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:07,719 Speaker 5: transponders on, even though it made it really obvious that 86 00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:10,560 Speaker 5: some kind of military operation was probably imminent. 87 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:13,680 Speaker 3: And then even during the. 88 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:17,360 Speaker 5: Air strikes, these aircraft would take off from Europe with 89 00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:20,720 Speaker 5: their transponders on, turn them off over the Mediterranean when 90 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:23,159 Speaker 5: they were heading east, do whatever. 91 00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:25,640 Speaker 3: They were doing, and then turn them back on when 92 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:27,480 Speaker 3: they were headed back toward Europe. 93 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:31,400 Speaker 5: So even part of the combat mission, they still have 94 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:35,040 Speaker 5: their transponders on. Yeah, So the fact that the flight 95 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:38,839 Speaker 5: to Sasudan, which was not a combat or a spy mission, 96 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:42,120 Speaker 5: appears to have flown the entire trip with its transponder 97 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:45,279 Speaker 5: off is quite notable to me. And you know, I 98 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:48,600 Speaker 5: see it as an extension of ISIS tactics on the 99 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:52,159 Speaker 5: ground where they are covering their faces and refusing to 100 00:05:52,279 --> 00:05:55,560 Speaker 5: identify themselves. But I'm, you know, kind of surprised that 101 00:05:55,640 --> 00:05:57,919 Speaker 5: they got the military to go along with that. 102 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:01,760 Speaker 4: Yeah, if it was really a military flight, right, like 103 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:05,400 Speaker 4: it could be something kind of military adjacent like some 104 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:10,039 Speaker 4: DHS or other government aircraft. 105 00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:12,040 Speaker 3: Right, I mean, we don't know. 106 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:15,200 Speaker 5: Yeah, they said it happened by a military flight on 107 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:16,920 Speaker 5: this date, but we don't know. 108 00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:19,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, So on July. 109 00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:22,320 Speaker 5: Eighth, the spokesperson for the South Sudanese government told the 110 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:25,400 Speaker 5: AP that the men were there and that they were 111 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:28,400 Speaker 5: quote under the care of the relevant authorities who are 112 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:32,039 Speaker 5: screening them and ensuring their safety and well being. We 113 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:34,119 Speaker 5: have no idea what that means. Does that mean they're 114 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:38,480 Speaker 5: in prison there? Does that mean that they are, you know, 115 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:41,400 Speaker 5: going to be sent to their countries of origin as 116 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:45,080 Speaker 5: they claimed at one point? We have no idea, yeah, 117 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:47,600 Speaker 5: And then just a few minutes ago we're recording this. 118 00:06:48,120 --> 00:06:52,159 Speaker 5: On Beciel day, July fourteenth, the same plane that first 119 00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:55,479 Speaker 5: took these men to Djibouti was scheduled to take off 120 00:06:55,520 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 5: from El Paso for Shannon Airport in Ireland. Once again, 121 00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:02,000 Speaker 5: where it goes after that, Well, you might know by 122 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:05,320 Speaker 5: the time you hear this, but right now it's anyone's guess. 123 00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:08,960 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's baffling, like some of this stuff, like the 124 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:13,239 Speaker 4: deportations to or no deportations, like rendition to South Sudan. 125 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:17,280 Speaker 4: Right Like even Homan, who's the Trump's quote unquote borders 126 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:20,480 Speaker 4: are or immigrations are, seems to be asserting that he 127 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:23,360 Speaker 4: has no idea what happened to them once they've landed there, 128 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:26,160 Speaker 4: Like right, at one point they suggested that they didn't 129 00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:29,800 Speaker 4: think they would be detained, but like do they just 130 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:32,120 Speaker 4: let them out into the street in I mean, when 131 00:07:32,120 --> 00:07:35,480 Speaker 4: people are released from custody in the United States, that's 132 00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:37,040 Speaker 4: exactly what they do, right, they let them out into 133 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:40,080 Speaker 4: the street. Like, Yeah, a lot of volunteers here in 134 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:42,520 Speaker 4: San Diego have spent a lot of time, you know, 135 00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:45,720 Speaker 4: because often people are released without Sometimes they're released without 136 00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:48,760 Speaker 4: religious garments, which are very important to them. Often they're 137 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:53,120 Speaker 4: released without any sort of orientation. Where are they How 138 00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:55,920 Speaker 4: do they get where they're going? Can they afford a flight? 139 00:07:56,720 --> 00:07:58,280 Speaker 4: You know, how do they book a flight? Do they 140 00:07:58,280 --> 00:08:00,600 Speaker 4: have the relevant documents to book a flight? It's a 141 00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:03,280 Speaker 4: complete clusterfug And that's it in the US. 142 00:08:03,320 --> 00:08:04,640 Speaker 3: Right, And I mean think about it. 143 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:08,800 Speaker 5: If you're like Laoshian or Vietnamese man in your fifties 144 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:12,200 Speaker 5: or sixties, which a lot of these men are older gentlemen, 145 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:17,120 Speaker 5: and you're what just like led out into the streets 146 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:19,360 Speaker 5: of Juba, which is, you know, a big city. 147 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:21,720 Speaker 3: But there's a lot of instability in this country. Like 148 00:08:21,760 --> 00:08:23,920 Speaker 3: what are you gonna do? It's a big thinker like 149 00:08:23,960 --> 00:08:29,200 Speaker 3: what you know, Yeah, you're very vulnerable, very vulnerable, and you. 150 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:31,400 Speaker 4: Probably don't have any material resources. It's not that you 151 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:33,240 Speaker 4: can get your credit card, take out much of money 152 00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:36,240 Speaker 4: and fly somewhere else. Nor do these people really have 153 00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:38,920 Speaker 4: in many cases anywhere to go, right, Like, the reason 154 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:41,480 Speaker 4: that they're being taken to third countries is generally that 155 00:08:41,520 --> 00:08:46,120 Speaker 4: they have withholding of removal or convention against torture claims 156 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:46,959 Speaker 4: that they can't. 157 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:48,640 Speaker 2: Be removed to their home countries. 158 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:51,080 Speaker 4: Since we recorded this, we have found out that people 159 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:54,720 Speaker 4: in South Sudan are being detained. According to an outlet 160 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:58,120 Speaker 4: called The Daily with your South Sudanese outlet, those people 161 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:01,480 Speaker 4: are incarcerated in South Suda. 162 00:09:01,920 --> 00:09:03,360 Speaker 3: Like the man for Me and Mar. 163 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:07,400 Speaker 5: You know, they're arguing that, you know, I suppose, oh, 164 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:09,640 Speaker 5: we can't send him to me and Mar, But if 165 00:09:09,679 --> 00:09:11,640 Speaker 5: you're going to send him to another place where he's 166 00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:15,440 Speaker 5: likely to be tortured, is it really any different? And 167 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:17,720 Speaker 5: also they are sending people to me and Mar. They 168 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:19,920 Speaker 5: have reported people to Me and Marr in the last 169 00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:21,720 Speaker 5: few months, as you James have reported. 170 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:22,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. 171 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:25,240 Speaker 4: They've sent more than a dozen people to Memr and 172 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:28,280 Speaker 4: seem to be continuing, at least they have not said 173 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:31,840 Speaker 4: they will stop. And most of those people were directly 174 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:35,160 Speaker 4: detained by military intelligence and MEMMA when they landed, So 175 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:39,160 Speaker 4: those people will have been tortured. And yeah, this this 176 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:41,719 Speaker 4: other person who had withholding it from removal doesn't. 177 00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:43,160 Speaker 2: Mean that he will not be tortured. 178 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:46,960 Speaker 4: I mean, if we look at like migrants making the 179 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:51,800 Speaker 4: journey to the United States are routinely kidnapped, tortured, ransom killed, 180 00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:55,760 Speaker 4: sexually assaulted. I've heard of all of these firsthand. I 181 00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:58,480 Speaker 4: don't suspect it will be any different. You know, once 182 00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:01,439 Speaker 4: they're outside the US again, extremely vulnerable. And we saw 183 00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:03,439 Speaker 4: this a lot in title forty two, when the Trump 184 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:06,160 Speaker 4: administration and the Biden administration would just boot people back 185 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:09,320 Speaker 4: over the border. Often they would do lateral transfers, so 186 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:11,440 Speaker 4: you enter in the San Diego sector, they drop you 187 00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:15,520 Speaker 4: in the Laredo sector or somewhere further east. And those 188 00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:18,240 Speaker 4: people that have zero network right and often don't speak 189 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 4: Spanish and are extremely vulnerable. It's pretty much the worst 190 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:24,000 Speaker 4: case outcome here. 191 00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:28,680 Speaker 5: Well, unfortunately, in the next part, I'm about to tell 192 00:10:28,679 --> 00:10:32,280 Speaker 5: you about how all of that is about to increase exponentially. 193 00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:35,960 Speaker 4: Yeah, talking of things that are increasing, actually increasing. We 194 00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:38,160 Speaker 4: still just have to do two advertisements every show, so 195 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:43,760 Speaker 4: we'll get me one of them now, all right, we 196 00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:44,960 Speaker 4: are back. 197 00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:46,320 Speaker 2: I hope you enjoyed those adverts here. 198 00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:49,360 Speaker 4: We had some new ones for like a religiously sansient gold, 199 00:10:49,559 --> 00:10:54,240 Speaker 4: which I'm very exciting about. This is one thing Jesus loved. 200 00:10:54,280 --> 00:10:57,560 Speaker 4: It was money change. There's a lot of stuff in 201 00:10:57,559 --> 00:10:58,440 Speaker 4: the Bible about that. 202 00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:00,800 Speaker 3: I think silvers actually, right. 203 00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:04,560 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think big precious metals. Guy, love to see 204 00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:10,440 Speaker 4: currency speculation. Okay, let's talk about Djibouti, a place where 205 00:11:10,440 --> 00:11:12,960 Speaker 4: the United States has a big base that it is 206 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:17,640 Speaker 4: using for housing people that it's renditioning to other countries. 207 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:19,360 Speaker 3: Yeah. 208 00:11:19,559 --> 00:11:22,280 Speaker 5: So when we first recorded this, we were just doing 209 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:27,080 Speaker 5: a Djibouti update about the men who were renditioned to 210 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:31,000 Speaker 5: South Sudan, and we knew at the time that there 211 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:35,840 Speaker 5: was another Journey Aviation jet about to take off. And 212 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:39,640 Speaker 5: now we know what happened with that flight. It landed 213 00:11:39,679 --> 00:11:44,920 Speaker 5: again in Djibouti, and two days later DHS announced that 214 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:49,599 Speaker 5: it had renditioned five more people to the country of Swatini, 215 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:53,000 Speaker 5: which I've been to. I reported there in twenty eleven, 216 00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:56,640 Speaker 5: I spoke to teachers who were starving because they hadn't 217 00:11:56,640 --> 00:11:59,360 Speaker 5: been paid for eight months by the king, who you 218 00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:03,360 Speaker 5: know is the last absolute monarch in Africa. And you know, 219 00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:08,280 Speaker 5: the teachers that I spoke to were terrified to disappear 220 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:11,240 Speaker 5: into the prisons that these five men have now been 221 00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:16,880 Speaker 5: renditioned to. I worked with another independent journalist named Alex Plank, 222 00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:22,640 Speaker 5: and we published a story using OSIN to prove that 223 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:26,520 Speaker 5: that journey flight to Djibouti was carrying the five men 224 00:12:26,559 --> 00:12:29,960 Speaker 5: and from there they were transported by a C seventeen 225 00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:34,960 Speaker 5: US military you know, huge aircraft that flew with its 226 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:39,200 Speaker 5: transponders off from Djibouti to Swatini to deliver these men. 227 00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:43,920 Speaker 4: Seems like that is the emerging standard for these military 228 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:46,720 Speaker 4: deportation flights, right at least for the final leg. 229 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:51,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, so the last week has been pretty crazy. 230 00:12:51,880 --> 00:12:52,120 Speaker 2: Yeah. 231 00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:57,800 Speaker 5: An Omni seven sixty seven did a removal flight to 232 00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:02,040 Speaker 5: a couple places in Africa, and at least two and 233 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:07,400 Speaker 5: perhaps three large military jets also did removal flights from 234 00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:11,120 Speaker 5: the United States, landing in Gemo just for fun, and 235 00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:16,760 Speaker 5: landing in different countries in Africa. Now, the interesting thing 236 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:22,239 Speaker 5: about that and about journey is that until this past week, 237 00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:27,880 Speaker 5: Africa and Central Asia have really been the purview of 238 00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:31,880 Speaker 5: this other ice air operator that's really gone under the radar, 239 00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:38,000 Speaker 5: but I think it's possible might be doing some things 240 00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:43,200 Speaker 5: that are even more sinister than your usual ice air flights. 241 00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:50,000 Speaker 5: So this company is called Aircraft Transport Service. They are 242 00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:53,040 Speaker 5: Florida base, but they are now all of their aircraft 243 00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:55,640 Speaker 5: are based in Mesa, Arizona, which is an ICE hub, 244 00:13:56,559 --> 00:14:00,240 Speaker 5: and they're at the end of their five year contracting 245 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:06,079 Speaker 5: these special high risk removals to dangerous areas or with 246 00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:13,160 Speaker 5: you know, allegedly dangerous migrant passengers. Their flights really began 247 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:20,000 Speaker 5: to spike in mid February up until July fourth. They 248 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:24,000 Speaker 5: have five private jets that they lease from their owners 249 00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:27,360 Speaker 5: to operate these flights. And I've looked at all of 250 00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:30,960 Speaker 5: their flights and it's not clear if they are doing 251 00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:38,000 Speaker 5: any flights that aren't ICE, but certainly at least most 252 00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:44,320 Speaker 5: of their business is ICE. And so I've tracked nineteen 253 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:49,040 Speaker 5: different trips, different ice removal trips that they've done since 254 00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:55,520 Speaker 5: February eighteenth, and most of these have gone to countries 255 00:14:55,560 --> 00:15:01,280 Speaker 5: in Africa, and that really began to surge around April 256 00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:07,480 Speaker 5: twenty ninth, And what I've noticed is that on June 257 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:11,040 Speaker 5: twenty six, New York Times published a story about, you know, 258 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:14,960 Speaker 5: the Trump administration is pressuring all of these countries to 259 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:20,760 Speaker 5: accept more of these third country removals, and there's a 260 00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:24,800 Speaker 5: lot of overlap between that list of countries and the 261 00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:29,800 Speaker 5: countries that ATS has been landing in for the last 262 00:15:29,880 --> 00:15:34,840 Speaker 5: four months. There is a pair of flights in particular 263 00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:39,760 Speaker 5: that I find pretty alarming. They went out within thirty 264 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:43,760 Speaker 5: minutes of each other on May twentieth, which was the 265 00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:48,360 Speaker 5: same day that the flight to Djibouti, when the flight 266 00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:54,200 Speaker 5: that was supposed to go to Sausudan and these flights, 267 00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:58,520 Speaker 5: so these flights started doing their usual ice removal route, 268 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:02,320 Speaker 5: which is, you know, MESA, maybe we stop in Fort 269 00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:06,840 Speaker 5: Worth to pick up more migrants, then you do a 270 00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:09,800 Speaker 5: fuel stop in San Juan, you do another fuel stop 271 00:16:09,840 --> 00:16:12,360 Speaker 5: in Senegal, and then you go wherever you're going to 272 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:16,640 Speaker 5: go in West Africa. These flights, thirty minutes apart from 273 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:22,760 Speaker 5: each other, flew directly from San Juan to Mauritanium and 274 00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:27,280 Speaker 5: we're on the ground for thirty minutes, and then from 275 00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:31,520 Speaker 5: there flew to Senegal. You know, I can't prove anything 276 00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:36,520 Speaker 5: because ICE does not communicate about its air operations at all, 277 00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:38,880 Speaker 5: you know, unless they feel like it because they want 278 00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:41,760 Speaker 5: to brag about it, or because you know, they're ordered 279 00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:46,880 Speaker 5: to bite courts. These flights to me seem particularly alarming 280 00:16:47,560 --> 00:16:51,640 Speaker 5: as possible flights where there could have been third country 281 00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:56,320 Speaker 5: removals that we don't even know about. And Marissa Cavas, 282 00:16:56,400 --> 00:16:59,480 Speaker 5: she's an independent reporter who has a site called the 283 00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:03,280 Speaker 5: Handbass Get. At the end of April, she reported that 284 00:17:03,320 --> 00:17:05,879 Speaker 5: there was a third country removal that hasn't gotten a 285 00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:08,560 Speaker 5: lot of attention, and I don't know why, because it's 286 00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:11,560 Speaker 5: really messed up. A third country removal of an Iraqi 287 00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:16,080 Speaker 5: man to Rwanda, which happened on April fourth, after he 288 00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:20,840 Speaker 5: legally migrated to the US. He was accused of murder 289 00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:25,800 Speaker 5: in Iraq. There's incontroversial evidence proving that he did not 290 00:17:25,840 --> 00:17:29,200 Speaker 5: commit this crime. He wasn't even in Iraq when it happened, 291 00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:36,120 Speaker 5: but the Biden administration continued with his removal. And because 292 00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:38,320 Speaker 5: he couldn't go back to Iraq because he would have 293 00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:42,520 Speaker 5: been executed, they had been looking for a safe third 294 00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:45,400 Speaker 5: country for him. They did not finish that when they 295 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:48,600 Speaker 5: handed the keys over to the Trump administration. So on 296 00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:53,960 Speaker 5: April fourth, he was removed to Rwanda. And he has 297 00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:58,280 Speaker 5: a lot of media contacts and no one has heard 298 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:00,919 Speaker 5: from him. I have not seen a report him, you know. 299 00:18:01,359 --> 00:18:05,280 Speaker 5: I tried to contact his family, was unsuccessful. I contacted 300 00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:10,800 Speaker 5: his attorney and didn't hear back. So ATS operated a flight. 301 00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:15,879 Speaker 5: It began at about eleven thirty on April second to 302 00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:19,560 Speaker 5: this Fort Worth Airport that's right next to an ICED 303 00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:25,040 Speaker 5: attention center San Juan, Senegal, and then landed in Nairobi. 304 00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:30,240 Speaker 5: Now Nairobi is not Kigali in Rwanda, but they're only 305 00:18:30,280 --> 00:18:32,720 Speaker 5: about an hour apart, and if you look at the 306 00:18:32,760 --> 00:18:36,320 Speaker 5: flight data, the aircraft at that point had been operating 307 00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:40,080 Speaker 5: for about twenty three hours straight, which is stretching the 308 00:18:40,119 --> 00:18:42,080 Speaker 5: boundaries of legality, even if you. 309 00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:45,360 Speaker 3: Have two crews. So there's a lot of. 310 00:18:45,359 --> 00:18:50,919 Speaker 5: Reasons why ICE might have taken him to Nairobi and 311 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:53,800 Speaker 5: then done something else for the last leg I think 312 00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:57,399 Speaker 5: the most likely explanation is that the crew had to 313 00:18:57,480 --> 00:19:00,880 Speaker 5: rest and I decided that they didn't want to wait, 314 00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:05,600 Speaker 5: So they may have chartered a local puddle jumper to 315 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:08,879 Speaker 5: take them, you know, over the lake to Kika. 316 00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:12,440 Speaker 4: It's pretty common, I think to when I've flow into Kikali. 317 00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:15,560 Speaker 4: I think I've stopped in Kinshasa and Nairobi. I don't 318 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:18,360 Speaker 4: know if it's a big planes can't land there. It's 319 00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:21,480 Speaker 4: just the kind of the way it works. Fewer people 320 00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:24,239 Speaker 4: are flying to Kigali directly from the USO Europe than 321 00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:26,480 Speaker 4: are going to places like King Shasta, Nairobi, so it 322 00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:28,840 Speaker 4: might just be that they don't do direct flights. But yeah, 323 00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:32,480 Speaker 4: I don't think I've ever done a direct big plane 324 00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:33,640 Speaker 4: flight right. 325 00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:36,720 Speaker 5: It seems that the only aircraft going in and out 326 00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:39,880 Speaker 5: of there are going to Nairobi and Kampala, and from 327 00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:41,520 Speaker 5: there you connect somewhere else. 328 00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:43,600 Speaker 2: It's a pretty small airport, so. 329 00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:45,760 Speaker 3: So yeah, that's ATS. 330 00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:49,520 Speaker 5: They've kind of flown under the radar because global x 331 00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:54,240 Speaker 5: is doing so much more in terms of numbers. But 332 00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:58,840 Speaker 5: I think it's quite possible that ATS's mission for the 333 00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:03,400 Speaker 5: past few months has been to sort of pilot program 334 00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:08,320 Speaker 5: small amounts of third country removals to these different countries, 335 00:20:08,760 --> 00:20:13,280 Speaker 5: just like omar Amin. Because after omar Amin was sent 336 00:20:13,320 --> 00:20:17,000 Speaker 5: to Rwanda, the State Department sent a cable that Mrsakabas 337 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:19,520 Speaker 5: obtained saying, oh man, it totally worked. This is great. 338 00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:21,240 Speaker 5: Let's send ten more people. 339 00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:24,600 Speaker 4: At a cost to one hundred thousand per head, right 340 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:30,359 Speaker 4: right again, maybe suggesting carcerational one hundred grand is going 341 00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:32,400 Speaker 4: to cover more than your paperwork, you know. 342 00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:36,000 Speaker 5: Right, And just to be clear about, you know, the 343 00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:39,639 Speaker 5: cost all of these military flights that have been flying 344 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:42,600 Speaker 5: around Africa now doing isis dirty work. 345 00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:43,840 Speaker 3: Those cost about. 346 00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:48,480 Speaker 5: Twenty eight five hundred dollars an hour to operate, and 347 00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:52,879 Speaker 5: of course cost is the least important thing here. But 348 00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:56,439 Speaker 5: my god, you know, for an administration that claims to 349 00:20:57,200 --> 00:20:58,560 Speaker 5: care about government. 350 00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:00,400 Speaker 2: Waste, yeah, this is ridiculous. 351 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:03,359 Speaker 4: We don't know how much they're paying people in South 352 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:07,080 Speaker 4: Sudan or the monarchy of a Swatini. We don't know 353 00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:09,719 Speaker 4: what they're sort of bribing these people to accept. I 354 00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:12,560 Speaker 4: just checked with Mauritania. It's currently a Level three State 355 00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:16,080 Speaker 4: Department travel warning telling people to reconsider travel due to 356 00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:17,200 Speaker 4: terrorism and crime. 357 00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:18,639 Speaker 2: That's why we're sending people. 358 00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:24,320 Speaker 4: I have explained the many and varied human rights abuses 359 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:26,600 Speaker 4: that have happened in Mauritania on the show before, so 360 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:29,080 Speaker 4: you can go back and listen to other episodes. Do 361 00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:31,800 Speaker 4: you want to want to hear about those hundreds of Mauritanians, 362 00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:36,600 Speaker 4: if not thousands, entered the United States in the tail 363 00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:39,879 Speaker 4: end of the Bid administration. I'm thinking like it was 364 00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:43,520 Speaker 4: late summer of twenty twenty three when I recall seeing 365 00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:45,679 Speaker 4: many of them. Just in my workdown at the border, 366 00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:49,800 Speaker 4: we often get very hot, like September's octobers in southern California, 367 00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:52,760 Speaker 4: and a few times I've come across Mauritanian people who 368 00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:56,399 Speaker 4: were in really bad shape just during those sort of 369 00:21:56,480 --> 00:21:59,359 Speaker 4: hot months, and it's sort of stuck with me that, 370 00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:03,119 Speaker 4: like some of the stories they had were horrific treat 371 00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:05,479 Speaker 4: and I'm sure that it's some of those people who 372 00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:07,439 Speaker 4: are now being sent back and just the fact that 373 00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:10,720 Speaker 4: they tried to leave will have made things even worse 374 00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:11,040 Speaker 4: for them. 375 00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:17,520 Speaker 5: So yeah, I mean, these flights going to Mauritania, which 376 00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:21,000 Speaker 5: includes one of the military flights last week, you know, 377 00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:25,280 Speaker 5: slavery still exists in Mauritania. There's a minimum of ninety 378 00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:28,000 Speaker 5: thousand people there who are still enslaved. That's the low 379 00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:32,560 Speaker 5: end of the estimates. And you know, it's been illegal 380 00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:37,080 Speaker 5: since nineteen eighty one, but the practice is really protected 381 00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:42,760 Speaker 5: by a culture of secrecy, not just among Mauritanian elites, 382 00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:46,920 Speaker 5: but the multinational corporations who are embedded there and will 383 00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:49,879 Speaker 5: just kind of look the other way while they're you know, 384 00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:53,800 Speaker 5: extract natural resources with people in the minds that like 385 00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:56,679 Speaker 5: they're not really going to check if they're enslaved or not. So, 386 00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:02,440 Speaker 5: you know, maybe we're doing third country deportations and removals there. 387 00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:06,639 Speaker 5: Maybe we're just sending Mauretanians back to a really horrible place. 388 00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:10,359 Speaker 4: Yeah, and it doesn't humanly matter, right, We're sending people 389 00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:13,280 Speaker 4: back to a place where they are very likely to 390 00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:16,679 Speaker 4: be tortured, to be as you say, like faust, to 391 00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:21,200 Speaker 4: unfree labor, to be incarcerated without having committed a crime. 392 00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:22,880 Speaker 4: Doesn't really matter whether people want. 393 00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:23,359 Speaker 2: It's fucked. 394 00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:26,320 Speaker 4: The embassy doesn't let us people drive around Mauritania at night, 395 00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:28,600 Speaker 4: have to be in the capital, They can only walk 396 00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:31,800 Speaker 4: in certain places. Give an idea of like how this 397 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:36,960 Speaker 4: double standard is applied. Talking of multinational corporations, I would. 398 00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:41,000 Speaker 2: Love to hear from. So let's do that now. 399 00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:48,120 Speaker 4: All right, we are back and we were talking about 400 00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:51,080 Speaker 4: the safety of private jets. Some of these flights have 401 00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:55,880 Speaker 4: some pretty horrific safety practices, right, and this, like when 402 00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:58,880 Speaker 4: you mentioned this, it instantly reminded me of a thing 403 00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:02,520 Speaker 4: that I have had no luck trying to sell stories 404 00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:07,560 Speaker 4: on for four years. It is standard practice for I 405 00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:13,000 Speaker 4: and CVP to transport children, children in their custody without 406 00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:19,479 Speaker 4: proper child seats or other restraints, right, which is you know, 407 00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:21,160 Speaker 4: to my knowledge, you can get a ticket for that 408 00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:23,840 Speaker 4: in some states. Right, Like if you're driving a child, 409 00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:25,600 Speaker 4: like you put a little two year old in the 410 00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:27,720 Speaker 4: seat without a like a child seat that they have 411 00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:30,959 Speaker 4: to have, Like, rightfully, you're endangering that person's life. But 412 00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:32,640 Speaker 4: apparently our government's doing it every day. 413 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:35,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean the law doesn't apply to the upholders 414 00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:36,399 Speaker 3: of the law, right, right. 415 00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:38,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, many such cases. 416 00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:41,119 Speaker 3: Many such cases which I'm about to explain more. 417 00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:43,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, let's learn some more. 418 00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:46,360 Speaker 5: So these ice flights, you know, most of these are 419 00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:49,720 Speaker 5: happening on larger jets A three twenties, owing seven thirty 420 00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:54,520 Speaker 5: sevens inside the cabin. REPUBLICA has done some really good 421 00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:57,840 Speaker 5: reporting on this from April. There's another outlet called Capitol 422 00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:01,119 Speaker 5: and Maine that also did a terrific story in twenty 423 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:05,199 Speaker 5: twenty one, and the University of Washington also has a 424 00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:08,680 Speaker 5: lot of research and information on what it's like inside 425 00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:12,240 Speaker 5: the cabin of these planes. And you know, as a 426 00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:19,280 Speaker 5: former flight attendant, I find it fucking disgusting and really unsafe. 427 00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:22,080 Speaker 5: Flight attendants on these flights are not allowed to look 428 00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:25,840 Speaker 5: at or speak to migrant passengers. They aren't allowed to 429 00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:29,280 Speaker 5: serve them food or water. All of the migrants on 430 00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:34,000 Speaker 5: these flights are shackled wrist to ankles, and some of them, 431 00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:37,600 Speaker 5: if they're allowed or distressed or just annoying, the ice 432 00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:41,960 Speaker 5: guards are wrapped in restraint blankets and harnesses and have 433 00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:45,960 Speaker 5: hoods put over their faces. Just this morning, JJ and DC, 434 00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:49,359 Speaker 5: one of the ice air trackers on Blue Sky, posted 435 00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:53,440 Speaker 5: a video of a migrant passenger in a hood being 436 00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:58,000 Speaker 5: loaded onto Avello Jet in Seattle and he's being pushed 437 00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:01,400 Speaker 5: by three ice guards and falls to the ground face 438 00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:03,800 Speaker 5: first and then they just sort of man handle him 439 00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:04,680 Speaker 5: back up the stairs. 440 00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:05,840 Speaker 2: Yeah. 441 00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:09,600 Speaker 5: So, you know, as a former flight attendant, I just 442 00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:11,920 Speaker 5: want to say, in the event of an emergency, how 443 00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:14,679 Speaker 5: the fuck is a flight attendant supposed to evacuate the 444 00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:18,840 Speaker 5: passengers in ninety seconds when their seat belts are getting 445 00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:21,679 Speaker 5: tangled in their handcuffs? And all they can do is 446 00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:25,760 Speaker 5: shuffle down the aisle when they can't see because they 447 00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:29,200 Speaker 5: have a hood over their head. If the cabin loses pressure, 448 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:32,320 Speaker 5: how can they reach up for their oxygen masks when 449 00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:35,520 Speaker 5: their handcuffs are attached by a chain to their leg irons. 450 00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:39,080 Speaker 5: How are they going to get the mask on themselves 451 00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:41,520 Speaker 5: if they're wearing a hood? How are they going to 452 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:44,560 Speaker 5: get their life fests on when they can't reach back 453 00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:47,960 Speaker 5: to wrap the strap around their waists? And these emergencies 454 00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:53,160 Speaker 5: are not theoretical. We know from court filings that between 455 00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:56,920 Speaker 5: twenty fourteen and twenty twenty one there were six emergency 456 00:26:56,960 --> 00:27:01,320 Speaker 5: evacuations of Ice air flights. Of those incidents, the evacuation 457 00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:04,520 Speaker 5: times of only two are known, and they took two 458 00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:08,080 Speaker 5: and a half minutes and seven minutes. And to be clear, 459 00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:11,479 Speaker 5: we only know about those evacuations because of lawsuits. So 460 00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:15,160 Speaker 5: there may very well have been more evacuations since twenty 461 00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:17,280 Speaker 5: twenty one and we just don't know about it. 462 00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:20,720 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean it's likely right, like the Biden administration 463 00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:24,480 Speaker 4: did it, especially when they were deporting Haitian people, like 464 00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:26,840 Speaker 4: huge numbers of flights. 465 00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:31,000 Speaker 5: Right until May and June September twenty one, when Biden 466 00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:34,480 Speaker 5: did the Haitian mass deportation. That was the highest amount 467 00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:38,440 Speaker 5: of deportations that witness at the border has recorded. 468 00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:39,520 Speaker 2: Yeah. 469 00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:42,480 Speaker 4: That was also the last time I was able to 470 00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:48,000 Speaker 4: write about Biden's administration policy NBC. I think I crossed 471 00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:51,120 Speaker 4: the line saying something mean about Uncle Joe. 472 00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:51,720 Speaker 3: Yeah. 473 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:54,920 Speaker 4: Yeah, but we should be very clip. This has been 474 00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:55,920 Speaker 4: a bipartisan thing. 475 00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:57,480 Speaker 3: Oh yes, oh yes. 476 00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:01,520 Speaker 5: So on each of these flights there is generally one 477 00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:06,199 Speaker 5: or two ICE officials and at least fifteen ICE contracted guards. 478 00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:11,840 Speaker 5: Migrant passengers have reported being verbally, physically, and sexually abused 479 00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:15,399 Speaker 5: by these guards, and flight attendants on board have no 480 00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:19,840 Speaker 5: power to stop them. In twenty seventeen, ninety two migrant 481 00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:25,040 Speaker 5: passengers traveling from the US to Ethiopia were left shackled 482 00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:28,960 Speaker 5: on a plane in the car Senegal for twenty three 483 00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:32,800 Speaker 5: hours because the crew timed out. They were kicked, dragged, 484 00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:36,760 Speaker 5: tied up, threatened by ICE guards, and when the labs 485 00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:42,920 Speaker 5: filled up, they soiled themselves. Flight attendants report that the 486 00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:48,400 Speaker 5: guards on these flights regularly ignore their safety commands and 487 00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:51,080 Speaker 5: will even you know, try and narc on them. They'll 488 00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:55,480 Speaker 5: complain to the flight attendant's supervisors at their airlines when 489 00:28:55,800 --> 00:29:00,200 Speaker 5: they're asking people to follow federal aviation regulations, it's like 490 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:03,160 Speaker 5: everyone else in America has to do. But when flight 491 00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:06,280 Speaker 5: attendants have complained to the FAA about this, the FAA 492 00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:09,239 Speaker 5: defers to ice. You know, this is not just a 493 00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:14,200 Speaker 5: matter of like it's disrespectful, two dangerous flight attendants. You know, 494 00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:18,960 Speaker 5: this is extremely dangerous. And one of the most important 495 00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:24,440 Speaker 5: parts of aviation safety is something called Crew resource management 496 00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:27,200 Speaker 5: or CRM. This is something that all pilots and flight 497 00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:30,360 Speaker 5: attendants are trained in every year and have to retrain 498 00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:35,120 Speaker 5: every year, and basically CRM boils down to pilots need 499 00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:38,000 Speaker 5: to listen to the flight attendants about safety, and flight 500 00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:42,400 Speaker 5: attendants are trained to be assertive with the pilots about safety. 501 00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:46,200 Speaker 5: This was developed after a notorious incident in the nineteen 502 00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:49,560 Speaker 5: seventies where a plane was on the ground, it was 503 00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:52,920 Speaker 5: filling up with smoke, and the pilot ignored flight attendants 504 00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:56,200 Speaker 5: please to evacuate, you know, just for some like garden 505 00:29:56,240 --> 00:30:01,000 Speaker 5: variety sexism probably, and everyone on board died of smoke inhalation, 506 00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:04,920 Speaker 5: two hundred and eighty people. So after that, crews are 507 00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:07,960 Speaker 5: trained every year to really flatten the hierarchies. You know, 508 00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:10,160 Speaker 5: I think people think like, oh, the captain has four 509 00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:13,280 Speaker 5: epaulets and the first officer has three, and you know, 510 00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:18,800 Speaker 5: oh hierarchy. No air crews are actually very like the 511 00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:23,000 Speaker 5: hierarchies are flattened intentionally on purpose. They train to flatten 512 00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:28,440 Speaker 5: it across job titles, across gender, education, racial cultural divides, 513 00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:32,040 Speaker 5: because it is safer to fly that way. When everyone 514 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:36,800 Speaker 5: feels that, you know, they have a stake in safety 515 00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:40,800 Speaker 5: and they'll be heard if they say something about safety, 516 00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:45,080 Speaker 5: everyone else is safer. So if you've got these ICE 517 00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:50,120 Speaker 5: guards stepping into the middle of that, throwing their weight around, 518 00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:54,760 Speaker 5: overruling flight attendants and pilots, and the FAA isn't backing 519 00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:58,520 Speaker 5: them up, you have confusion about who's in power on board, 520 00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:01,520 Speaker 5: you have a total breakdow on a CRM, and so 521 00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:05,520 Speaker 5: beyond just like people physically being able to get off 522 00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:09,640 Speaker 5: of the planes, this is so unsafe to have this 523 00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:13,920 Speaker 5: kind of environment with these guards. So the last incident 524 00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:17,720 Speaker 5: I want to talk about was in June seventeen. To me, 525 00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:21,520 Speaker 5: this is the scariest one of all of the safety incidents. 526 00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:26,200 Speaker 5: There was an ice Air emergency. This flight landed it 527 00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:28,560 Speaker 5: was filling up with smoke. This is almost just like 528 00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:31,320 Speaker 5: the plane in the seventies the flight attendants told the 529 00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:35,640 Speaker 5: pilots to evacuate, and the pilots ignored them. A bunch 530 00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:38,640 Speaker 5: of people on board were hospitalized. We don't know how 531 00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:42,320 Speaker 5: many or who, but frankly, everyone on board could have 532 00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:47,320 Speaker 5: died from smoke inhalation very easily. And I really think 533 00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:50,360 Speaker 5: you can point to the presence of the ICE guards 534 00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:53,920 Speaker 5: here as a big factor in the failure to evacuate. 535 00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:58,320 Speaker 5: That is not how pilots are trained. So again, yeah, 536 00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:01,600 Speaker 5: if you're a flight attendant for pilot and you do 537 00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:04,480 Speaker 5: not want your airline to contract with ICE, now is 538 00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:07,600 Speaker 5: the time to tell them. Tell your union help flight 539 00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:11,960 Speaker 5: attendants for Global X and the Vello get jobs somewhere else. Ye, 540 00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:14,560 Speaker 5: you know, do whatever you can to slow this down, 541 00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:18,320 Speaker 5: because it is all about to increase if they get 542 00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:18,720 Speaker 5: their way. 543 00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:23,320 Speaker 4: Yeah, jeez, that is fucking bleak. Yeah, yeah, you said 544 00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:26,400 Speaker 4: it's going to get bigger. Like let's talk about that, 545 00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:29,680 Speaker 4: Like can you kind of zoom out and explain Ice 546 00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:32,920 Speaker 4: Air to us, and like we've talked about these small 547 00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:35,040 Speaker 4: flights a lot, but like that's not the bulk of 548 00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:37,000 Speaker 4: the flights they do right right. 549 00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:42,000 Speaker 5: So ice Air right now has twelve large jets, you know, 550 00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:46,200 Speaker 5: a three twenty seven thirty sevens chartered from different airlines 551 00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:49,480 Speaker 5: that they're using for their deportations, and then these private 552 00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:52,240 Speaker 5: jets are you know, used less for these smaller, high 553 00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:56,120 Speaker 5: risk deportations. They're running like thirty thirty five flights a 554 00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:59,240 Speaker 5: day at this point. So May twentieth turned out to 555 00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:01,600 Speaker 5: be like kind of a big day for is air 556 00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:05,760 Speaker 5: because that was the Djibouti flight. That was when ATS 557 00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:08,920 Speaker 5: started using the Tyson callsign. It's also the day that 558 00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:14,520 Speaker 5: the larger operation really just searched in activity. And you know, 559 00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:18,000 Speaker 5: the other flight trackers tell me that ice Air used 560 00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:20,400 Speaker 5: to take weekends and holidays off and they don't do 561 00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:24,680 Speaker 5: that anymore. They were deporting people on juneteenth and July fourth. 562 00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:30,160 Speaker 5: In May, ice operated a record number of flights, which 563 00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:33,840 Speaker 5: was at least one thousand and eighty three flights that 564 00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:37,120 Speaker 5: flight trackers recorded, one hundred and ninety of which were 565 00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:40,840 Speaker 5: removal flights and then the rest are like these internal 566 00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:44,880 Speaker 5: shuffle flights between different ice attention centers and return trips. 567 00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:48,080 Speaker 5: And then in June they set a record again with 568 00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:52,400 Speaker 5: one hundred and eighty seven flights, of which two hundred 569 00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:55,840 Speaker 5: and nine were removal flights. All of this data is 570 00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:58,640 Speaker 5: a witness at the border dot org and it's kept 571 00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:02,040 Speaker 5: by Tom Cartwright, who is a real hero. He has 572 00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:05,600 Speaker 5: been tracking flights basically by himself for five and a 573 00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:11,960 Speaker 5: half years and he publishes very detailed monthly reports. And yeah, 574 00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:15,279 Speaker 5: as you said earlier, you know he's been tracking this 575 00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:18,279 Speaker 5: through the Biden administration too, which is how we know that, 576 00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:22,719 Speaker 5: you know, the Trump deportation machine from the first term, 577 00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:25,239 Speaker 5: you know, Biden didn't really slow it down that much, 578 00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:29,440 Speaker 5: and now Trump is picking up the reins again and 579 00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:34,359 Speaker 5: surging it again. So the airlines right now that are 580 00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:40,000 Speaker 5: flying these larger removal flights are Global X also called 581 00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:44,799 Speaker 5: Global Crossing Airlines, a Vellow Airlines, Eastern Air and on 582 00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:51,800 Speaker 5: the international and except for ATS, who you know I 583 00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:54,640 Speaker 5: talked about earlier, has their own contract, all of these 584 00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:58,800 Speaker 5: carriers who fly for ICE are subcontracted through a flight 585 00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:03,879 Speaker 5: broker called CSI Aviation. CSI Aviation signed a five year 586 00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:07,279 Speaker 5: contract with the Biden administration last year that has been 587 00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:11,280 Speaker 5: paused because of a lawsuit from a rival flight broker 588 00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:16,200 Speaker 5: that wanted that contract. So since late February, CSI has 589 00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:19,239 Speaker 5: been brokering these flights on a six month no bid 590 00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:22,320 Speaker 5: contract that started at one hundred and twenty eight million 591 00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:26,040 Speaker 5: dollars and was quickly doubled and then went up to 592 00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:28,440 Speaker 5: two hundred and seventy four million, and then just a 593 00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:30,279 Speaker 5: couple of days ago, I don't think anyone else has 594 00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:32,680 Speaker 5: reported this, it was raised again to three hundred and 595 00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:34,080 Speaker 5: thirty nine million dollars. 596 00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:36,160 Speaker 3: So they've got about sixty. 597 00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:38,960 Speaker 5: Million dollars left on this contract for the next six weeks, 598 00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:44,520 Speaker 5: and that's before the huge windfall and funding that I 599 00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:49,440 Speaker 5: just got from Trump's big beautiful bill. The administration has 600 00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:53,600 Speaker 5: said it once to triple deportations, and right now they 601 00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:56,920 Speaker 5: just don't have the aircraft for that. And DHS On 602 00:35:57,000 --> 00:35:59,919 Speaker 5: Twitter and Instagram a couple of days ago they post 603 00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:04,600 Speaker 5: I said this really ghoulish meme that said fire up 604 00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:08,160 Speaker 5: the deportation planes, and there was like a skeleton lifting 605 00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:11,920 Speaker 5: weights with a caption that said my body is a 606 00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:15,840 Speaker 5: machine that turns ICE funding into mass deportations. 607 00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:17,880 Speaker 3: So that's gross. 608 00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:20,759 Speaker 4: Yeah, that was really weird. They've been doing a lot 609 00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:22,920 Speaker 4: of this like post stuff. 610 00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:26,239 Speaker 5: Right, Like I said, they only have twelve jets right now. 611 00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:30,080 Speaker 5: Then they're flying those capacity, so they can't triple deportations 612 00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:33,600 Speaker 5: unless they start bringing in more airlines. 613 00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:35,280 Speaker 3: So the other day. 614 00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:37,960 Speaker 5: I posted a call to action to flight attendants and 615 00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:41,239 Speaker 5: to flight attendant unions saying, you know, if you don't 616 00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:44,600 Speaker 5: want your airline to do these flights, now is the 617 00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:45,319 Speaker 5: time to tell them. 618 00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:46,120 Speaker 4: Yeah. 619 00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:47,839 Speaker 3: CSI Aviation is. 620 00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:51,280 Speaker 5: Run by a man named Alan Way and his daughter, 621 00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:55,279 Speaker 5: Deborah Mastis. Alan Way is the former chair of the 622 00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:58,439 Speaker 5: New Mexico Republican Party. He's hosted a bunch of Trump 623 00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:03,040 Speaker 5: rallies over the years. He ran unsuccessfully for Senate and 624 00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:06,480 Speaker 5: governor of New Mexico in the past on an anti 625 00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:10,480 Speaker 5: immigrant platform, which local media at the time pointed out, 626 00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:13,799 Speaker 5: you know, well, you're mostly doing deportation flights, so that 627 00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:18,920 Speaker 5: would really be enriching yourself. His daughter, Deborah Masis, was 628 00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:22,520 Speaker 5: one of the fake electors in New Mexico during the. 629 00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:23,400 Speaker 3: Twenty twenty election. 630 00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:23,960 Speaker 2: Wow. 631 00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:25,560 Speaker 3: Yeah. 632 00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:29,080 Speaker 5: She was subpoenut by the House committee investigating the January 633 00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:33,680 Speaker 5: sixth insurrection, and the New Mexico State Attorney General's office 634 00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:38,200 Speaker 5: investigated her. Eventually, they're not press charges because she and 635 00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:42,200 Speaker 5: the other fake electors claimed they didn't know they're fake 636 00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:46,120 Speaker 5: certifications were going to be used for anything illegal. And 637 00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:49,320 Speaker 5: the Project on Government Oversight has some pretty good reporting 638 00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:51,640 Speaker 5: on CSI aviation if you want to see. 639 00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:54,880 Speaker 4: That, Yeah, yeah, we'll put it in the show notes. 640 00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:56,880 Speaker 2: Like, yeah, insane. 641 00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:01,480 Speaker 4: This whole thing is just like completely I would watch 642 00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:04,120 Speaker 4: or look at some of the footage from inside deportation 643 00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:06,560 Speaker 4: flights because it is inhumane. 644 00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:07,680 Speaker 3: It's yeah. 645 00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:12,120 Speaker 5: I mean, I hope that any flight attendants who are 646 00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:15,000 Speaker 5: forced to work these flights can find a way to quit. 647 00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:18,319 Speaker 5: But if they can't quit for financial reasons, because all 648 00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:23,719 Speaker 5: of these people are, you know, very underpaid, you know, 649 00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:27,719 Speaker 5: I hope that they can provide us with more information 650 00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:30,799 Speaker 5: about what is going on inside these flights. 651 00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:33,759 Speaker 4: Yeah, definitely that will be at least give people a 652 00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:36,360 Speaker 4: chance to see what their tax dollars are being spent on. 653 00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:37,200 Speaker 3: Yeah. 654 00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:39,719 Speaker 5: I mean, one of the things that I've been thinking about, 655 00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:43,080 Speaker 5: you know, terrorism is like a really loaded word that 656 00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:46,360 Speaker 5: gets misused a lot against black and brown people, But 657 00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:50,080 Speaker 5: I think that's the right word for all of these 658 00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:56,640 Speaker 5: removals because they're random, they're violent, they're targeting civilians for 659 00:38:56,840 --> 00:39:02,080 Speaker 5: political purpose, and their design to frighten the larger population 660 00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:08,080 Speaker 5: potential victims. Right, the Trump administration is trying to scare 661 00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:13,400 Speaker 5: all undocumented immigrants and anyone adjacent to them, since you know, 662 00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:15,319 Speaker 5: a lot of citizens are being arrested too. 663 00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:19,080 Speaker 4: Yeah, or green cardholders, people with buckets of documents are 664 00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:21,480 Speaker 4: being deported a rendition right now. 665 00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:23,919 Speaker 5: And they're saying, you know, they're trying to make them 666 00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:27,480 Speaker 5: so scared that if they don't self deport they could 667 00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:31,200 Speaker 5: end up in South Sudan, they could end up in Mauritania. 668 00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:35,160 Speaker 5: You know, that's what this policy is designed to do, 669 00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:38,560 Speaker 5: is to terrorize the people of this country. 670 00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:41,399 Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, it's pretty bleak. 671 00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:45,919 Speaker 4: We have an encrypted email address, so if you are 672 00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:50,000 Speaker 4: I guess a deportation flight attendant and you would like 673 00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:53,000 Speaker 4: to talk to someone, I can pass it on to 674 00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:54,760 Speaker 4: give you. In two you might have your an encrypted 675 00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:56,360 Speaker 4: email address and you can plug. 676 00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:56,440 Speaker 2: It if you do. 677 00:39:57,000 --> 00:40:00,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, you can definitely leak to me on signal. 678 00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:00,919 Speaker 2: Okay, yeah. Nice. 679 00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:06,360 Speaker 4: We have cool zone tips at ProtonMail dot com or 680 00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:08,960 Speaker 4: cool zone tips at proton dot me. I believe they 681 00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:12,200 Speaker 4: both work. It's only encrypted if the address that it's 682 00:40:12,239 --> 00:40:15,040 Speaker 4: sent from is also encrypted, So in the symptance. You 683 00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:16,839 Speaker 4: would need a proton mail or you can cook up 684 00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:20,319 Speaker 4: your own encryption. Yeah, that would be the way to 685 00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:24,399 Speaker 4: get in touch if you want to get in touch this. Yeah, 686 00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:26,360 Speaker 4: this just fucking sucks, like and there's going to be 687 00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:29,120 Speaker 4: so much more of it in the next couple of 688 00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:32,000 Speaker 4: years with this budget, Like, this is going to become 689 00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:34,719 Speaker 4: what it already isn't everyday thing. 690 00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:36,600 Speaker 2: This is going to become even more common. 691 00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:36,840 Speaker 6: I know. 692 00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:39,760 Speaker 4: They're also like they're doing some weird shuffle to avoid 693 00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:41,719 Speaker 4: sanctions with Venezuelan airlines. 694 00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:46,279 Speaker 5: Right, yeah, they fly I believe it is, to Honduras 695 00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:50,680 Speaker 5: and then Venezuela flies their own plane to Honduras to 696 00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:51,239 Speaker 5: pick them up. 697 00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:54,480 Speaker 4: Right, yeah cool, I'm sure that's you have a great 698 00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:57,399 Speaker 4: time when they get better Venezuela and Venezuela is also 699 00:40:57,520 --> 00:41:02,440 Speaker 4: offering humanitarian flights for its citizens stuck in Mexico right now. So, like, 700 00:41:03,239 --> 00:41:05,239 Speaker 4: if people want to do something about this, what can 701 00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:05,560 Speaker 4: they do? 702 00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:09,480 Speaker 5: The first thing you can do is boycott Avello Airlines. 703 00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:13,920 Speaker 5: They are commercial airlines, so don't fly with them. You 704 00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:16,800 Speaker 5: can write to the airlines you use regularly right now 705 00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:21,200 Speaker 5: and tell them that if they are considering contracting with 706 00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:24,960 Speaker 5: Ice not to that you will boycott them too. You 707 00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:27,840 Speaker 5: can complain to the FAA about the safety issues on 708 00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:30,880 Speaker 5: these flights. I doubt that they'll do anything, but I 709 00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:34,279 Speaker 5: think there's value in saying something anyway. If you have 710 00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:38,640 Speaker 5: contacts in aviation or in any of the countries that 711 00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:41,640 Speaker 5: these people are being sent to, and you find something out, 712 00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:44,279 Speaker 5: you can leak to me on signal. And if you 713 00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:47,200 Speaker 5: work in aviation, tell your airline and your union right 714 00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:50,400 Speaker 5: now that you are not going to operate these flights. 715 00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:54,000 Speaker 5: And if you want to get started tracking flights yourself. 716 00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:57,280 Speaker 5: We need a lot of help, especially in the overnight hours. 717 00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:00,919 Speaker 5: A good first step is to go to Globe dot 718 00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:05,680 Speaker 5: adsb exchange dot com and in the general search window 719 00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:06,920 Speaker 5: type Tyson. 720 00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:10,080 Speaker 4: You've been doing really, really great reporting on this, and 721 00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:12,360 Speaker 4: I'm sure people want to continue to follow it. It 722 00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:16,359 Speaker 4: is a shame that other outlets are not running it. 723 00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:17,600 Speaker 3: But God bless them. 724 00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:21,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, just try. 725 00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:23,640 Speaker 5: Out there if you want to know what James is 726 00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:26,759 Speaker 5: talking about. There's a brief explanation at the end of 727 00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:29,640 Speaker 5: one of my stories that I've written recently at hard 728 00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:32,600 Speaker 5: g History dot ghost dot io. I have a couple 729 00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:37,560 Speaker 5: stories there about the recent flights to Africa, and you 730 00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:40,040 Speaker 5: can read the bottom and you'll find out what James 731 00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:40,640 Speaker 5: is talking about. 732 00:42:40,719 --> 00:42:46,839 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a little teaser for you, right, go get 733 00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:47,839 Speaker 4: the t Yeah. 734 00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:50,440 Speaker 2: Okay, thank you for joining us. I'm sure we'll hear 735 00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:51,960 Speaker 2: from you again soon. 736 00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:53,040 Speaker 3: Thank you, James. 737 00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:58,480 Speaker 6: It Could Happen Here is a production of pool Zone Media. 738 00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:01,720 Speaker 6: For more podcasts from pools Zon Media, visit our website 739 00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:05,400 Speaker 6: foolzonmedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, 740 00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:09,040 Speaker 6: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can 741 00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:11,400 Speaker 6: now find sources for It Could Happen Here, listed directly 742 00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:12,680 Speaker 6: in episode descriptions. 743 00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:13,720 Speaker 3: Thanks for listening.