Speaker 1: You're listening to Comedy Central, all right, so you're not
Speaker 1: like when you get a salad, right, you get a
Speaker 1: salad and then you get the dressing on the side
Speaker 1: so you can feel healthy, when the truth is that
Speaker 1: you're just gonna put the dressing on a little bit,
Speaker 1: bite by biting. Then by the end of your salad,
Speaker 1: you've already used all the dressing that was on the side.
Speaker 1: That's what this podcast is. This is the dressing on
Speaker 1: the side of the Daily Show. I'm Roy, but Junior,
Speaker 1: this is beyond the scenes where we go beyond the
Speaker 1: topics and the discussions that we have on the Daily Show.
Speaker 1: I sit down with correspondence, producers, writers, anybody that had
Speaker 1: anything to do with the piece happening. We talk to
Speaker 1: them on this show and you enjoy it and it
Speaker 1: is as delicious as the Daily Show because it's on
Speaker 1: the side. And see what it's on the side. It
Speaker 1: feels healthier.
Speaker 2: Baby.
Speaker 1: Right now, you're getting a couple extra calories just listening
Speaker 1: to me. What the hell am I talking about? You
Speaker 1: don't care. The piece we're going to go beyond on
Speaker 1: this week is the O'Reilly factor getting racist in Chinatown.
Speaker 1: This is when Ronnie Chang responded to some racist ass
Speaker 1: shit that was on Fox News. If you didn't see
Speaker 1: the original segment, Jesse Waters from Fox News. This is
Speaker 1: during the twenty sixteen election, and Trump was talking China,
Speaker 1: China had and he went down to Chinatown to do
Speaker 1: what was supposed to be quote unquote journalism and having
Speaker 1: a real discussion with Asian people, But really what he
Speaker 1: was doing was exploiting people who did not speak English
Speaker 1: and then going around town partaking in all of the
Speaker 1: different stuff that basically just highlighted a bunch of Asian stereotypes.
Speaker 1: He got a foot massage, he played with some nunchucks,
Speaker 1: he played kung fu fighting, and my man, Ronnie Chang
Speaker 1: caught wind of this shit and he clapped back in
Speaker 1: a major way.
Speaker 3: Am I supposed to bow to?
Speaker 2: Say? Hello? I like these watches? Are they hot? Ninety?
Speaker 2: Who are you going to vote for? Clenth than life?
Speaker 2: Clinton's wife has a name? What is it? Oh man?
Speaker 2: Don't forget it?
Speaker 1: Snap?
Speaker 3: Do you know karate?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: I know?
Speaker 3: Hit in my hand.
Speaker 2: That's the spot. Is it the Year of the Dragon Rabbit? No,
Speaker 2: it's actually the Year of yourself? The hell was that?
Speaker 2: How was that on the news. In fact, how is
Speaker 2: that even on TV? Where did this come from? I mean,
Speaker 2: everyone one's been wondering who'd be the tag of twenty
Speaker 2: sixteens was racism? I didn't even know Asians going to
Speaker 2: run it?
Speaker 1: Okay, So we're going to discuss the rise of anti
Speaker 1: Asian hate in this country, where it came from, what
Speaker 1: we can do to stop it, and a little later
Speaker 1: on the program, we're going to be joined by Norman Chen,
Speaker 1: the CEO and co founder of Leading Asian Americans Unite
Speaker 1: for Change. But first, it is my pleasure to go
Speaker 1: beyond the scenes with my officemate. He is my friend,
Speaker 1: he is You're my.
Speaker 2: Day one man.
Speaker 1: You're my day one from my first day at the
Speaker 1: Daily Show, you were right there. I think I beat
Speaker 1: you to the by five minutes, which makes me the
Speaker 1: senior correspondent because I beat you to the building by
Speaker 1: five minutes on our first day. Ronnie, you did this piece.
Speaker 1: This is Ronnie Chang, by the way, Daily Show Correspondent
Speaker 1: extraord near Ronnie Chang.
Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks for talking about this man, And you're my
Speaker 2: day one too.
Speaker 1: You and I are good friends and we talk a
Speaker 1: lot in our office, Like we actually discussed at one
Speaker 1: moment doing a podcast together of just us rambling and shit,
Speaker 1: just our rambles. But I think we both decided that
Speaker 1: we talk about a lot of stuff that should remain
Speaker 1: off the record.
Speaker 2: I think you you didn't even say we should talk
Speaker 2: about it. You said you wanted to install cameras and
Speaker 2: just keep it on record and then cut clips about
Speaker 2: what was Yeah, I don't want to do that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I wanted to big Brother our office, just a
Speaker 1: live stream of Roy and Ronnie just solving every problem.
Speaker 1: Which speaking of solving problems, Ronnie.
Speaker 2: It's gonna be a lot of you eating subway sangwich.
Speaker 2: That's what's gonna be.
Speaker 1: Hey, we will discuss subway tuna later. Okay, they said
Speaker 1: it's tuna. They just don't know which kind of tuna
Speaker 1: that we're getting off stuff, Ronnie. In twenty sixteen, why
Speaker 1: did you fail to solve Asian racism? Anti Asian centiment?
Speaker 1: Why did you fail?
Speaker 2: It was abating switch. I thought we solved it. I
Speaker 2: thought racism was over after that video, and then you know,
Speaker 2: they did a pump fake and then they went the
Speaker 2: other way and it came back. They came back, hod
Speaker 2: They racism came back and went hard to the rim.
Speaker 1: You know what I mean, Racism broke the board, Anti
Speaker 1: Asian racism. It was down two, like the Milwaukee Bucks
Speaker 1: gave it a lot.
Speaker 2: It came back had they came back so hard? There.
Speaker 1: We joke a lot in the show, but this was
Speaker 1: a piece that you know, it was what we call
Speaker 1: in the Daily Show office is a quick turn. This
Speaker 1: is where the news breaks and rather than go through
Speaker 1: a formal booking like no, Ronnie was like, Yo, where's
Speaker 1: the camera, I'm going to China Town. Just for the
Speaker 1: people who don't know who've missed the piece, give me
Speaker 1: the backstory on what lit this fire so fast from
Speaker 1: the time from the time this piece aired on Fox News.
Speaker 1: I think our response aired maybe thirty six hours later.
Speaker 2: If that, yeah, it was yeah, yeah. So once things
Speaker 2: hit the zeg geist in American news, then it starts
Speaker 2: to enter the building a bit. And the underlying story,
Speaker 2: which was the Fox News story was actually causing so
Speaker 2: much grief in America that it hit the pop culture
Speaker 2: as that guys, and then that entered the building, which
Speaker 2: I mean, to be fair, already entered the building the
Speaker 2: day before, but it started building overnight to the point
Speaker 2: where the Daily Show had to address it. We decided
Speaker 2: to go to Chinatown to get the response of people
Speaker 2: from that neighborhood who were interviewed, the same neighborhood that
Speaker 2: was interviewed in the Fox News segment. And we went down,
Speaker 2: and I was worried that because in Singapore and Malaysia,
Speaker 2: people get really apathetic about politics and they're very hesitant
Speaker 2: to be on screen and they're very hesitant to be
Speaker 2: on screen talking about politics. So I didn't know if
Speaker 2: that would be the same thing we would face in
Speaker 2: New York City Chinatown. But what we found, the entire
Speaker 2: Daily Show team found was that it was the exact opposite,
Speaker 2: because as soon as we got to New York City Chinatown,
Speaker 2: people literally as soon as we got out of the
Speaker 2: car and I was dressed in the suit, and they
Speaker 2: they as soon as they saw me, they're like, hey,
Speaker 2: are you here to talk about that thing that happened yesterday?
Speaker 2: And I was like yeah, and they're like, come over here,
Speaker 2: and then they they brought us to the place in
Speaker 2: Chinatown and people lined up around the block to talk
Speaker 2: to us. They lined up, so it was like, yeah,
Speaker 2: people don't normally line up to talk to us, So
Speaker 2: I literally I was just standing there as people came
Speaker 2: one after the other to come and and bitch about
Speaker 2: what happened yesterday. What are your thoughts on the Jesse
Speaker 2: Waters video on Fox News?
Speaker 4: The chicken reporter who came down here and thought he
Speaker 4: was big because he talked to people who couldn't speak English. Yeah,
Speaker 4: that douchebag piece of the one with no testicles, the
Speaker 4: one who came down here who said, let me talk
Speaker 4: to some old people and let me put them on
Speaker 4: camera without asking them and sort of put them on
Speaker 4: national television and made fun of them in the worst
Speaker 4: possible way.
Speaker 2: That asshole. Kay, I think we're talking about the same guy, right,
Speaker 2: all right? What was the question again? I can't even remember.
Speaker 2: The whole idea behind the piece was that, and this
Speaker 2: came from Trevor. Was the idea that just because people
Speaker 2: are speaking your language, whatever your language is, doesn't mean
Speaker 2: they don't have sophisticated thoughts on politics and the way
Speaker 2: the country should be run. So that was the idea
Speaker 2: we are doing in Chinatown, which was trying to get
Speaker 2: their opinions, and in many cases we kind of asked
Speaker 2: them to speak Chinese or Cantonese just to make the
Speaker 2: point that you can have sophisticated thoughts in languages other
Speaker 2: than English, and so yeah, the response was, you know,
Speaker 2: it required almost no effort on that pot. The streets.
Speaker 2: The streets did the talking on that one.
Speaker 1: You're more Zindu than me. But the thing that I
Speaker 1: found most interesting about this piece for you was the
Speaker 1: lack of anger for you as a correspondent. That's the
Speaker 1: thing I'm always suppressing, like dude, Like like when we
Speaker 1: did the Republican National Convention twenty sixteen, we did the
Speaker 1: piece when was America great? And I'm having to look
Speaker 1: at people, look me in my black ass eyes and
Speaker 1: tell me America was great during slavery and I'm trying
Speaker 1: not to read. So when you went down to Chinatown
Speaker 1: on a piece as an Asian, was this personal? Was
Speaker 1: this a more personal piece for you?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, yeah, I mean it felt like a direct
Speaker 2: personal attack. By the same time, you know, at the
Speaker 2: Daily Show, you know, the drill man, it's like, what
Speaker 2: like in the emergency room, It's like we see so
Speaker 2: much crap every day that you in order to operate professionally,
Speaker 2: you become god desensitized and you're just here to treat
Speaker 2: the patience, and so we just keep seeing con crashes
Speaker 2: every single day. Eventually you're like, oh yeah, like you
Speaker 2: have an objective view of it. And also I was
Speaker 2: pretty pissed going back to the studio and I remember
Speaker 2: we brought the footage back and this this is again
Speaker 2: speaks to the team at the Daily Show, is that
Speaker 2: we we went out to shoot, went back edited, whether
Speaker 2: we shot, wrote the Deak piece and on the same night, right,
Speaker 2: and we recorded the same night, like and you know,
Speaker 2: field pieces are usually separate to death pieces, but this
Speaker 2: was like the perfect merging of Chat with Trevor and
Speaker 2: a death piece and a field element and man on
Speaker 2: the Street all in one day. I mean, that's the
Speaker 2: you know for me. And that was this is early
Speaker 2: on in my Daily Shot. It is maybe one year
Speaker 2: in and I was like, man, this is the Daily Show.
Speaker 2: It is best, you know everything, Everyone's operating and firing
Speaker 2: on all cylinders in a very short timeframe. And sorry
Speaker 2: to answer your question about not being pissed off, I mean,
Speaker 2: part of it is the job, and part of it
Speaker 2: is I always feel like because I'm a first generation
Speaker 2: immigrant to America, so I'm in America because by choice,
Speaker 2: like I want to be there, and so when I
Speaker 2: see shit go down, I see like I also see
Speaker 2: in this particular instance. Yeah, you can say, you know,
Speaker 2: blatant racism. But the silver lining to this whole story
Speaker 2: was that everyone got angry by this Fox New piece,
Speaker 2: not just Asian people, not just Chinatown New York City people,
Speaker 2: the entire country was like, Yo, this this sucks. And
Speaker 2: that's why it entered the Z guys right, because if
Speaker 2: most people thought it was okay, it would never have,
Speaker 2: you know, blown up to the point where you know,
Speaker 2: at that time, people were pre upset. You know, everyone,
Speaker 2: white people were upset. Every race was pretty upset about this.
Speaker 2: So if you ask me why, I'm not more upsets because, oh,
Speaker 2: it was a cause that everyone already. You know, most
Speaker 2: people were upset by the issue already. We were just
Speaker 2: giving them a platform to express it.
Speaker 1: You know, who was the target audience for this?
Speaker 2: Was it? Or?
Speaker 1: I guess who were you aiming this piece towards? In
Speaker 1: a way like, was it at the reporter that went
Speaker 1: out and did it? I you know, his name is
Speaker 1: Jesse Waters. I personally think we should bleep his name,
Speaker 1: just bleep his name. Is it at the reporter who
Speaker 1: went out and said this ignorant shit, even though he
Speaker 1: kind of sort of apologized after the fact. Is it
Speaker 1: the right wing gee Fox News type media outlets that
Speaker 1: pushed this narrative or was it at the people that
Speaker 1: actually thought that what he did was real journalism and informative.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it was. I think honestly it man,
Speaker 2: it was for whoever wanted to listen to it. But also,
Speaker 2: I think Asian people in America they never had a
Speaker 2: way to critique the media like that. I think the
Speaker 2: history of Asian American storytelling in America, there's been no
Speaker 2: one in the media to critique media portrayals of them
Speaker 2: on a big enough platform. So honestly, it was almost
Speaker 2: to put a flag in the sand and be like, oh,
Speaker 2: you know, this kind of stuff isn't acceptable anymore, you know.
Speaker 2: And it was a sentiment I felt there was already
Speaker 2: in America, and yeah, I kind of symbolically put the
Speaker 2: flag in like this is the moment. But and I
Speaker 2: was lucky to be happened to be in a position
Speaker 2: to do it right, because we want to show that
Speaker 2: criticizes news and media. That's what I'll show essentially is right.
Speaker 2: And so I happened to be on the perfect platform
Speaker 2: to do it. But like I said, I think most
Speaker 2: people in America didn't think it was okay even at
Speaker 2: the time.
Speaker 1: No, not in the least. The thing that's so interesting
Speaker 1: about this country, though, is that every minority group is
Speaker 1: dealing with their own racism too, so then when you
Speaker 1: find out about the new racism, it's like, oh, okay, well,
Speaker 1: I'll be right there in a second. I'm currently getting
Speaker 1: beating a head by a cop. I'll be right there
Speaker 1: as soon as I've finished dealing with my own traumas.
Speaker 1: And it's very difficult, and I think it's very so
Speaker 1: that so many people were willing to speak out, which
Speaker 1: brings me to twenty twenty. As a matter of fact,
Speaker 1: now we already know the role that Trump played and
Speaker 1: stirring the pot from twenty sixteen up until COVID. But
Speaker 1: at COVID, I feel like that's when the pot went
Speaker 1: from medium to hot, well, from hot to hotter for
Speaker 1: anti Asian American sentiment. You know, there was a one
Speaker 1: h and fifty percent spike and anti Asian crime in
Speaker 1: twenty twenty, and then also you know everything that started
Speaker 1: with COVID, and it's starting in China, and then Trump
Speaker 1: driving the narrative of oh, it's the you know what
Speaker 1: he said about it. I'm not going to even repeat
Speaker 1: what they call the coronavirus at the time or whatever,
Speaker 1: but the China virus is that one I can say.
Speaker 1: I'm not going to say the other one, but it
Speaker 1: really you could say it. I'm not gonna say it.
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna say the case so.
Speaker 2: Weird that we have to tiptoe around quoting the president
Speaker 2: in case which say a slur quota stern ex president.
Speaker 1: It's just you insert slur here, just whatever you think
Speaker 1: he said, he said it. Do you think, like how
Speaker 1: much of that contributed to the uptick in violence in
Speaker 1: twenty twenty? Man, the bigger question, the bigger question. Do
Speaker 1: you think that like, do you think that like Fox
Speaker 1: News and Trump were following their base. Were they just
Speaker 1: giving to people what they want when it turned in
Speaker 1: terms of stirring up racism, or were they leading them
Speaker 1: to this and then creating racism?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I think it's one of the go
Speaker 2: to moves in the playbook is to blame people who
Speaker 2: look different to them, Right, that's well to go to
Speaker 2: fascist moves. I guess. So I think that was the
Speaker 2: easy you know, when bad stuff happens anywhere, I mean,
Speaker 2: let's just say in America, then people look for someone
Speaker 2: to blame, right, And so I think putting it on
Speaker 2: a whole race of people is a way to direct
Speaker 2: their anger. I think it's also weird in America that
Speaker 2: they they like people. I think Asian people are kind
Speaker 2: of under the radar a bit until this thing happened,
Speaker 2: and then now it became It kind of gave people
Speaker 2: an excuse to like go after Asian people if you're
Speaker 2: having trouble. Oh but I will say in America, I
Speaker 2: think what's interesting about being Asian America is that you're
Speaker 2: kind of always you know, the idea of being a
Speaker 2: perpetual foreigner in America. Like Asian Americans aren't usually like
Speaker 2: they're always seen as having to like answer for stuff
Speaker 2: that happened in Asia or you know, like everyone's always
Speaker 2: putting stuff that happened in Asia on Asian Americans when
Speaker 2: that very separate cultures, Like a lot of Asian Americans
Speaker 2: haven't left America before. They were like born in Asia
Speaker 2: and they never left, you know, and so it's almost
Speaker 2: like quite frankly like African Americans being asked about stuff
Speaker 2: that happens in Africa, or like Anglo Americans being asked
Speaker 2: about stuff in the UK, you know, like what happened
Speaker 2: in what's going on with Brexit. You know, like most people,
Speaker 2: I don't know what's happening. A lot these Asian Americans
Speaker 2: are just Asian American culture. But I guess my point
Speaker 2: is that that's that's That's the way I kind of
Speaker 2: describe the perpetual foreigner thing is that you're you're always
Speaker 2: being asked about stuff over there, and so you got
Speaker 2: nothing to do. Most most Asian Americans have nothing to
Speaker 2: do with the stuff over there. You know.
Speaker 1: The thing for me with twenty twenty, when when the
Speaker 1: uptick happened, when the one to fifty jump and anti
Speaker 1: Asian sentiment and the crimes started happening, especially in the
Speaker 1: New York area. You know, it was people of all
Speaker 1: racist perpetuating these crimes. But there was also a lot
Speaker 1: of videos where sometimes it was a black person taking
Speaker 1: an Asian person, and so as a black person out
Speaker 1: and walking around, I'm like, Okay, how do I carry
Speaker 1: myself to make sure that the Asians know that I'm
Speaker 1: safe and that I'm not here to punch. I will
Speaker 1: get and I'm being silly, but there is this idea
Speaker 1: and it's no different than at night when you live
Speaker 1: in the city. There's a woman five six steps ahead
Speaker 1: of you on the sidewalk, right, I'm not trying to
Speaker 1: creep you out. I know I'm a big dude. So
Speaker 1: to keep us both comfortable, I'm gonna slow down my
Speaker 1: step a little bit, give you ten feet so that
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, like just being conscious of
Speaker 1: making sure that everybody has a little bit of space
Speaker 1: and that everybody's comfortable. That was problem One problem too,
Speaker 1: was for me because there were two door men that
Speaker 1: got fired in New York City for not helping they
Speaker 1: want an Asian woman who was being attacked on the sidewalk.
Speaker 1: And my thought was, wow, okay, if if that happened,
Speaker 1: what would I do? Me Roy And in my head
Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, I'm going to help. I have to
Speaker 1: break that up. But then there was also a piece
Speaker 1: of me in my head going Okay, when the police come,
Speaker 1: what are you gonna do to make it look like
Speaker 1: the one attacking the Asian? And I'm like, fuck, I've
Speaker 1: got to call the police on myself and let them
Speaker 1: know that I'm cool, set my phone up, set up
Speaker 1: the IG live stream, then go ahead like like being
Speaker 1: a little fanatical on that side. But there were all
Speaker 1: of these levels in my head of how could I
Speaker 1: help but also remain safe for police and people that
Speaker 1: are pulling up with even less information than I have,
Speaker 1: you know when I circle the corner. But that's that's
Speaker 1: that's an interesting thing we could probably exploit. Matter of fact,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm gonna pose that question to our guests
Speaker 1: after the break, to be joined by the wonderful, wonderful
Speaker 1: Norman Chen. He is the CEO and co founder of
Speaker 1: leading Asian American Unite for Change. We'll have him on
Speaker 1: in a second. This is beyond the scenes. Are you
Speaker 1: enjoying going beyond the scenes with me? Ronnie?
Speaker 2: I'm loving it. It's the best. I love it.
Speaker 1: Too late, it took you too long?
Speaker 2: No, No, that was the lag. That was the zoom lag.
Speaker 1: It's too late. It's too late. The commercials are start.
Speaker 1: We're joined now by someone who I trust more than
Speaker 1: Ronnie Chang. You know, I'm not saying that Ronnie Chang
Speaker 1: hasn't done the work, but last I checked Ronnie Chang
Speaker 1: wasn't the CEO and co founder of Lunch? Are you
Speaker 1: the CEO and co founder of Launch Ronnie Chang?
Speaker 2: No? Unfortunately I was. I was written out of the story.
Speaker 1: Lunch is leading Asian American Unite for Change. His name
Speaker 1: is Norman Chen. Norman, thank you for joining us on
Speaker 1: beyond the Scenes.
Speaker 3: Great to be here. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1: So let's jump right back into this discussion. We've talked
Speaker 1: about Ronnie's peace and everything that went down in Chinatown
Speaker 1: with Fox News, but I wanted to have you on
Speaker 1: to talk a little bit more about where we are
Speaker 1: today with regards to anti Asian cinnamon. I wanted to
Speaker 1: talk to you for a second about the status index
Speaker 1: and ways that we are able to quantify what's going on,
Speaker 1: because the thing that we deal with, no matter what
Speaker 1: minority group you are, you're told that whatever it is
Speaker 1: you're dealing with ain't real. It's not real. Well, everybody,
Speaker 1: of course, robbery's up, it's a pandemic. Everybody's on employ like, no, man,
Speaker 1: I'm telling you, they're attacking us. So how were you
Speaker 1: all able to assess attitudes and stereotypes towards Asians over
Speaker 1: there with the Status Report.
Speaker 3: Thanks thanks Roy No exactly to your point. These stereotypes
Speaker 3: and perceptions have been prevalent in American society for decades
Speaker 3: and actually are at the root cause of hate crimes
Speaker 3: if you find you look at research about hate crimes.
Speaker 3: They stemmed, just as Ronnie was saying, from stereotypes initially
Speaker 3: that then lead to scapegoating and then lead to violence
Speaker 3: during difficult times and crisis. This is like COVID are
Speaker 3: once in a lifetime hopefully, so we're seeing a repeat,
Speaker 3: a repetition of the cycle of stereotypes leading to scapegoating
Speaker 3: leading to violence. So, as a new nonprofit last year
Speaker 3: we re formed in twenty twenty, we were looking for
Speaker 3: existing research on stereotypes of Asian Americans and shockingly, the
Speaker 3: last study that had been done comprehensively was twenty years ago,
Speaker 3: when there are half as many Asian Americans in the country,
Speaker 3: and so we thought that's just a glaring need. There's
Speaker 3: a glaring need to do more research about stereotypes, and
Speaker 3: so we commissioned the Status Index Study, which was really
Speaker 3: checking on how Americans now perceive Asian Americans, and unlike
Speaker 3: most other Asian American research that's out there we interviewed
Speaker 3: all Americans, so not just Asian Americans about their experience,
Speaker 3: but also other racial groups. So it was it was
Speaker 3: quite groundbreaking this year.
Speaker 1: How safe or how unsafe rather, would you say Asians
Speaker 1: feel in America right now? And running out throw this
Speaker 1: to you first, just in general during this time from
Speaker 1: twenty twenty till now, is your head on a swivel
Speaker 1: more than it was, say in twenty fifteen.
Speaker 2: I think depends on the state. I think in Hawaii
Speaker 2: it was.
Speaker 1: It was such a great answer.
Speaker 2: I mean, that's like a lot of America, right, it
Speaker 2: depends on the state, right. I will say when I
Speaker 2: went back to New York City at the peak of
Speaker 2: the pandemic and all the crimes were happening, I definitely
Speaker 2: was you know what it's you know, and that's the thing, right,
Speaker 2: the Internet versus real life. Real life definitely felt different
Speaker 2: than my Instagram feed in terms of the amount of
Speaker 2: violence that was happening on my Instagram feed. So real
Speaker 2: life felt way way safe than compared to Instagram. But
Speaker 2: because of Instagram, man, my head was definitely on a
Speaker 2: swivel the entire time in New York City. You know,
Speaker 2: I'm looking behind my back. I'm not walking down you know, streets,
Speaker 2: I don't know, I'm.
Speaker 1: Sprinting making sure the black guy behind you is at
Speaker 1: least ten feet and not sick.
Speaker 2: No, No, I don't racially profile. I go. I do
Speaker 2: my comedy shows. I run from show to show, make
Speaker 2: sure if someone's attacking me it's because of my jokes,
Speaker 2: not because of my race. And I have my phone
Speaker 2: by my side. So it basically it's like living in
Speaker 2: New York City, but more it's what we should have
Speaker 2: been doing over the last five years. But this just
Speaker 2: kind of made me more aware, and not just for myself,
Speaker 2: but for other people as well. If I see like
Speaker 2: an old Asian person on the street, I'm always like, okay, well,
Speaker 2: you know, it's my job to to is my job
Speaker 2: to make sure she's okay for the length of time
Speaker 2: which she's in my field of vision, and then I
Speaker 2: pass off to the next Asian bystanders who's walking in
Speaker 2: a separate direction. So yeah, it's well looking for other
Speaker 2: people too. You know, when we see these videos, by
Speaker 2: the way, normal, I don't know what you feel and Roy,
Speaker 2: I mean no, I don't know how you feel when
Speaker 2: we see these videos. Happening to elderly Asian people. I'm
Speaker 2: not even I'm not even worried about I'm not thinking
Speaker 2: about myself. I'm not thinking what that happens to me.
Speaker 2: I'm thinking, man, that looks like someone, that looks like
Speaker 2: my relative, that looks my grandma, like my aunts, my grandaunt.
Speaker 2: Like I'm worried about them more than I worried about me,
Speaker 2: for sure. You know, when I see these videos, it's
Speaker 2: not like I don't stop fearing for my life. I'm like, man,
Speaker 2: what if there's another Because the people being attacked aren't
Speaker 2: the Asian mma fighters, you know, those are the people.
Speaker 2: Those not the videos we're seeing. You know, we're seeing
Speaker 2: the people who can't really defend themselves.
Speaker 1: To that point, when we talk about stereotypes, storm and
Speaker 1: just in general and just we know how much pop
Speaker 1: culture delves in that and bathes in that, you know,
Speaker 1: for a number of minorities, but it seems like it's
Speaker 1: even more unique and even worse in a way for
Speaker 1: Asians because like some of the stereotypes will also they'll
Speaker 1: even take something positive and just oh you do your homework,
Speaker 1: Oh you're good at math. Shouldn't we all be good
Speaker 1: at math like even when you take Ronnie's film Crazy
Speaker 1: Rich Asians, which did I would assume amazing things for
Speaker 1: helping to debunk some stereotypes. People will turn around and
Speaker 1: see three well dressed Asians walking down the street and
Speaker 1: just go look at them rig as Asians? Norman, how
Speaker 1: much does pop culture play a role in that? And
Speaker 1: have you seen any improvements in any regard that would
Speaker 1: help you believe that the tide is turning? And how
Speaker 1: Asians are at least portrayed in entertainment.
Speaker 3: You know, ron that was one of the key areas
Speaker 3: of our research is about how Asians are perceived in
Speaker 3: the media and TV and movies, because that's a key
Speaker 3: source of information for many communities about Asian Americans. A
Speaker 3: lot of the communities don't have Asian American friends, and
Speaker 3: so they look to movies. And the question that you
Speaker 3: may have heard of that got a lot of press
Speaker 3: was we asked people to name a prominent Asian American
Speaker 3: and forty two of Americans could not name a single
Speaker 3: prominent Asian American. And the number two and three answers
Speaker 3: they gave we're all martial artists. Number two was Jackie Chan,
Speaker 3: who we love, but who is actually not American, he's
Speaker 3: from Hong Kong. And number three was Bruce Lee, who's
Speaker 3: also you know, a martial artist, but hasn't been did
Speaker 3: wow the years? So uh, And you look at the
Speaker 3: roles people see Asian Americans in the men are the gangsters,
Speaker 3: they're the nerds, the technicians, the women are the massuse workers,
Speaker 3: they're the waitress, exactly all roles. So a lot of
Speaker 3: those stereotypes still persist. You know, our research was important
Speaker 3: because no one again had done this research for twenty years,
Speaker 3: so we re established, we quantified a baseline. This is
Speaker 3: where things are. It's not good, but at least we
Speaker 3: know where we are. Hopefully, over the next one year,
Speaker 3: three year, five year, ten years won't be forty two
Speaker 3: percent of Americans who still can name a freaking prominent
Speaker 3: Asian American. So we're hoping to track progress over time.
Speaker 3: But to your point, yes, a lot of these stereotypes
Speaker 3: still exist. The fact that Ronnie and others were able
Speaker 3: to show Asians in a positive light, right, it's being
Speaker 3: successful and being frankly physically attractive. When's the last time
Speaker 3: we saw an Asian American male take his shirt off
Speaker 3: in a movie? We had a lot of that crazy
Speaker 3: rich agents and a lot of the Asian American men
Speaker 3: in the country we're celebrating it, and a lot of
Speaker 3: Asian American women as well. There are definitely trends and
Speaker 3: positive signs, and I think a lot more movies and
Speaker 3: TV shows are coming out, which is really encouraging.
Speaker 2: But this brings me back, you know, and that makes
Speaker 2: me think about the overall solution to everything we're talking about,
Speaker 2: and there is no one thing, you know, I think
Speaker 2: in America we always want this, like we want those
Speaker 2: apt that fixes everything. We want the GoFundMe that will
Speaker 2: end racism, you know, we want that one home run solution.
Speaker 2: And like, these are complicated social problems, multifactorial issues, you know,
Speaker 2: that require attacking from different places. So yeah, one aspect
Speaker 2: of the attack is you know, Pierre part Henry Golding
Speaker 2: taking their shirt off in craziers asions. That moves the
Speaker 2: needle a little bit, I won't you know. It doesn't
Speaker 2: solve everything, but it definitely helps a little bit. And
Speaker 2: some of it is where the funding is going on,
Speaker 2: the on the street's actual help, some of its legislation.
Speaker 2: Some of it is you know, messaging. So like all
Speaker 2: this stuff plays into it, and that's why having the
Speaker 2: data helps, because it helps us understand where we can attack.
Speaker 2: It also helps prove that there is an issue. You know, yeah, No.
Speaker 3: One of the questions we asked our respondents is how
Speaker 3: would you address these problems about anti Asian American sentiment
Speaker 3: and stereotypes in the US. And the answers were exactly
Speaker 3: what what you mentioned In terms of awareness, in terms
Speaker 3: of legislation, in terms of solidarity, in terms of more
Speaker 3: media attention. The other key solution is education, and I
Speaker 3: wanted to touch upon that. When we grew up, very
Speaker 3: few of us had the opportunity to learn about Asian
Speaker 3: American history and classrooms in the US. And now, as
Speaker 3: you know, recently Illinois mandated the teaching of Asian American
Speaker 3: history in public schools, which is a huge milestone, and
Speaker 3: other states are moving in that direction. And so clearly
Speaker 3: more Asian American history knowledge is important. These are cycles.
Speaker 3: There were lynchings in eighteen seventy one of Asian Americans
Speaker 3: in LA No one knows about that. A lot of
Speaker 3: people don't even know about the Japanese internment during World
Speaker 3: War two, and so to make this information more accessible
Speaker 3: to young kids, who are really the key to address
Speaker 3: before they become racist adults. We're working with a group
Speaker 3: called the Asian American Education Project FUE a graphic novel
Speaker 3: overview of the highlights of Asian American history. So think
Speaker 3: about it, you're a fourth grade, fifth grade kid, you
Speaker 3: don't want to learn even about your own history. How
Speaker 3: do you make Asian American history interesting and accessible? And
Speaker 3: we're working with an award winning comic book writer to
Speaker 3: create an overview of it that hits all the highlights
Speaker 3: of Asian American history so that schools and teachers and
Speaker 3: students can get this information in a very accessible way.
Speaker 3: We can share it digitally as well. These are the
Speaker 3: things we're trying to do to really have an impact,
Speaker 3: to create more education. But to Ronnie's point, it's a
Speaker 3: movement that needs to happen, and we're starting to get organized,
Speaker 3: starting to have resources, but there's a ton of work
Speaker 3: to do in many different areas.
Speaker 2: In many different areas, many different areas. If anyone listening
Speaker 2: to this is anything to take away from anything we're
Speaker 2: saying is go find the people who are doing things,
Speaker 2: because there's a ton of people who care, and there's
Speaker 2: a ton of people who are doing smart things in
Speaker 2: many different areas. You know, maybe you like being a
Speaker 2: vigilante on the street. You know that's vigilante groups you
Speaker 2: can join to beat people up. Maybe you like being
Speaker 2: a bit more, you know, like you like raising money
Speaker 2: to help small businesses. You know there's organizations raising money
Speaker 2: to help the businesses in Chinaawn, There's there's people trying
Speaker 2: to put as as norm just mentioned educate kids. You know,
Speaker 2: there's people are doing stuff.
Speaker 1: Okay, so then let's talk solutions after the break, because
Speaker 1: I have a couple of questions of how I non
Speaker 1: Asian can be a part of this. This is so dope, Ronnie.
Speaker 1: I feel like the white women talking to black people
Speaker 1: like I just want you to know that I see you,
Speaker 1: and I am an.
Speaker 2: Ally we're trying to get the Karens board.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm black, I'm a Keith. I'm not beyond the scenes.
Speaker 1: Swooll be right back. When asked to name a prominent
Speaker 1: Asian American Norman, I have all the statistics here, man,
Speaker 1: this is very interesting for Americans. Couldn't do it. Eleven
Speaker 1: percent named Jackie Chan, nine percent, Bruce Lee, five percent,
Speaker 1: Lucy Lou two percent, Kamala Harris, and you brought up,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 2: Hang on, what percentage was that they mention me?
Speaker 1: Hang on, let me zoom in.
Speaker 2: It's probably statistically insignificant.
Speaker 1: Yeah, trick question. Trick question, Ronnie, You're not on the
Speaker 1: list next year.
Speaker 3: Year will be a big number next year.
Speaker 2: Let's talk solutions on how I can get on that list.
Speaker 2: I want to be with the Fort.
Speaker 1: Now, Norman, you brought up something with regards to one
Speaker 1: solution that I think makes sense, which is education and
Speaker 1: the curriculum. You know, I grew up in Alabama, which
Speaker 1: is I grew up in Alabama public schools late eighties,
Speaker 1: all of the nineties. And I say this not joking.
Speaker 1: I am not joking with you. I did not meet
Speaker 1: my first Asian person until the eighth grade.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So in terms of these areas where a lot of
Speaker 1: this big tree is happening and a lot of that
Speaker 1: bigger tree is believed, there's not a lot of Asians there.
Speaker 1: And so I know that there's definitely a role that
Speaker 1: the school system plays. And you know, Ronnie, you talked
Speaker 1: about people being active within their own communities and connecting
Speaker 1: with the It's crazy because you're basically saying the same
Speaker 1: thing that black people, the same thing we've been saying
Speaker 1: to white people. Find someone that's doing the work, and
Speaker 1: show up and go what can I do well.
Speaker 2: At the start? Yeah, it's a starting point. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 2: as a starting point, show up and vote, and show
Speaker 2: up and get involved in the organizations that are doing
Speaker 2: things because, like I said before the break, there's a
Speaker 2: ton of organizations while trying to help. And I'm in
Speaker 2: America by choice. I'm in America by choice because I
Speaker 2: think there's more good people there than bad people, way
Speaker 2: more good people than bad people. And I think the
Speaker 2: fact that we are talking about this, the fact that
Speaker 2: norm did this study show that they are people who
Speaker 2: can you.
Speaker 1: Know, there's those are kind of more of the grassroots,
Speaker 1: you know, solutions. But let's talk on the political side.
Speaker 1: Norman did the anti Asian hate Crime Bill, the COVID
Speaker 1: nineteen Hate Crimes Act. Is that enough from President Biden
Speaker 1: to help stop the swell of what you've seen happening
Speaker 1: in your community.
Speaker 3: No, I mean, I think most people would agree it's
Speaker 3: the tip of the iceberg or what needs to be done,
Speaker 3: but it's a positive step in the right direction. So,
Speaker 3: you know, it helps to create more reporting channels for
Speaker 3: people to report the hate crimes. That's important. It sets
Speaker 3: aside information money for education about racism towards Asian Americans.
Speaker 3: That's all important, But it's like the drug war, like
Speaker 3: you've got to start a fight the war at the source, right,
Speaker 3: what's causing these hate crimes and what's leading to the
Speaker 3: stereotypes and escapegoating and the violence. And so media is
Speaker 3: very powerful, Hollywood, TV, movies, the news is very powerful
Speaker 3: right in terms of how Asian American stories are reported,
Speaker 3: and so there are groups activating to try to get
Speaker 3: more coverage about Asian American stories. Education, as we talked about,
Speaker 3: is extremely important to shape hearts and minds. We were fortunate,
Speaker 3: in terms of politically, to be invited by Congressman Ted
Speaker 3: Lew to present to the Congressional Asian Pacific American Caucus
Speaker 3: and where we shared our data so that the legislators
Speaker 3: and the political leaders can have more information that they
Speaker 3: can use to fight their battles. And so that's one
Speaker 3: way we're trying to link with the legislators. You know,
Speaker 3: getting Asian American history taught in schools that requires legislation, right,
Speaker 3: And so it requires political activity, and so that is
Speaker 3: a very important channel to get things done as well.
Speaker 1: Right, So, Norman, there are certain crimes in this country
Speaker 1: that get more attention from the media than others, crimes
Speaker 1: of a racial nature. How much does the media play
Speaker 1: a role? And the example I want to use is
Speaker 1: the mass shootings at the Asian massage parlors in Atlanta.
Speaker 1: You have a gentleman who goes from parlor to parlor
Speaker 1: killing people. And I know that there was an element
Speaker 1: of sexual addiction that was a part of that, but
Speaker 1: that does not absolve race from also being a piece
Speaker 1: of the motive for those crimes. But not only does
Speaker 1: that not get turned into will did he kill them
Speaker 1: because of sexual shame or did he kill him because
Speaker 1: they were Asian? Or was it a little bit of
Speaker 1: They just stopped talking about it all together.
Speaker 3: So let me amplify your point with a couple additional
Speaker 3: data points there.
Speaker 2: Roy.
Speaker 3: First of all, we did our study in March April
Speaker 3: of this year, and one of the regrets we had
Speaker 3: when we first did the study was, Gosh, I wish
Speaker 3: we had done the study before the Atlanta killings, because
Speaker 3: then even more Americans would be unaware. We thought everyone
Speaker 3: would know about the anti Asian American sentiment. Shockingly, again,
Speaker 3: thirty two percent of Americans, basically a third of Americans
Speaker 3: say they're not aware of the increase in hate crimes
Speaker 3: towards Asian Americans in the past year. So I don't
Speaker 3: know where they're getting the information from, but clearly it's
Speaker 3: not share it's not representing the hate crimes that are
Speaker 3: affecting women in Atlanta and other places. That's one data point.
Speaker 3: The second data point is I just was on at
Speaker 3: an event in the Bay Area with Dion Lim who's
Speaker 3: the local newscaster and really prominent activists in the Asian
Speaker 3: American community, and she says now that when she goes
Speaker 3: to her producers and has you know, sometimes five or
Speaker 3: six anti Asian American hate crime stories each day, they're saying,
Speaker 3: you know, we're not the public's not interested in these
Speaker 3: stories anymore, so we need to find something else to
Speaker 3: report on. So exactly to your point, these stories are
Speaker 3: getting buried, and so how do you solve these problem?
Speaker 3: I mean, these are systemic problems for sure. One area
Speaker 3: that a lot of people are focusing on, I think
Speaker 3: makes sense is representation. How many of their producers or
Speaker 3: senior people at these media companies are Asian American and
Speaker 3: about Asian American stories, right. I think that is critical,
Speaker 3: and I think that's an area where we have seen
Speaker 3: significant underrepresentation of Asian Americans and leadership positions. One of
Speaker 3: the key statistics from our study was that half of
Speaker 3: Americans think that Asian Americans are actually well represented. They think, hey,
Speaker 3: model minority, we're smart, hardworking, we must be successful, it
Speaker 3: must be leaders Well, actually we're fifty percent underrepresented in
Speaker 3: terms of leadership positions, in terms of Supreme Court justices,
Speaker 3: of which there are zero Asian Americans, in terms of
Speaker 3: the corporate world, in terms of the political world, in
Speaker 3: terms of owning TV stations and movies stations, et cetera,
Speaker 3: we are severely underrepresented. Yet people are under the illusion
Speaker 3: that Asian Americans are well represented. So I think representation
Speaker 3: is a key part of the puzzle. And only when
Speaker 3: you have leaders who appreciate and understand the Asian American
Speaker 3: experience and the Black experience and the Hispanic experience do
Speaker 3: we have real diversity and true you know, acric coverage
Speaker 3: of America. And so we're hoping that we'll see some
Speaker 3: changes in that area in the next few years as well.
Speaker 1: All Right, I'll leave you gentlemen with this question, and
Speaker 1: I'll let Norman go first, because I know Ronnie and
Speaker 1: I are going to argue, how do we, Norman get
Speaker 1: other minorities to understand that the Asian fight is also
Speaker 1: our fight? Because and I was just and as a
Speaker 1: black person, I'm just going to be, you know, very
Speaker 1: blunt with what some of the sentiment is in other
Speaker 1: communities where it's okay, well, how they get an anti
Speaker 1: Asian hate crime deal? Before it was we've been trying
Speaker 1: to get a how do we get other groups because
Speaker 1: everybody is so insular. You know, Ronnie's very right in
Speaker 1: that regard in America where everybody's just tending to their
Speaker 1: own farm. You know, I've got my problems to deal
Speaker 1: with the latinos head. We're focused on our things and
Speaker 1: how do we get other mind in orders to understand
Speaker 1: that if anybody can break through, it's good for everybody.
Speaker 3: Totally. Yeah, A lot of the issues that we identify
Speaker 3: apply to other racial groups and people of color, and
Speaker 3: so one of our goals is much it's more outreach
Speaker 3: to other communities of color, to reach out to the
Speaker 3: African American Black community and Hispanic Latino community. There is
Speaker 3: much more that we share in common in terms of
Speaker 3: our experience in white America than that separates us, so
Speaker 3: outreach is critical. We also believe that working closely with
Speaker 3: these partners on initiatives such as diversity in the media,
Speaker 3: such as fair representation, are really critical. So yeah, I
Speaker 3: think it's a key part of the solution. And I
Speaker 3: say the onus is not just on, it's on on
Speaker 3: both sides of the equation.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: In our study, we found that certain communities have less
Speaker 3: interaction with Asian Americans and so they don't know Asian
Speaker 3: American culture. That's why they see them as others. So
Speaker 3: we need to build more bridges between these communities who
Speaker 3: people can appreciate. The Asian Americans who some people think
Speaker 3: are as cold and unfriendly and not warm. Well, they've
Speaker 3: never been to my house or Ronnie's house for a
Speaker 3: dinner party, right, They've never had time to hang out
Speaker 3: with our grandparents and our parents and just really enjoy
Speaker 3: each other's company and have great Asian food together. We
Speaker 3: need to share that experience more and let people know
Speaker 3: just you know, how warm and dynamic our culture is.
Speaker 3: And also again break down these barriers. So I think
Speaker 3: at the micro level, interaction among different groups is really
Speaker 3: really critical. That's how you just like you. I mean
Speaker 3: you maybe didn't meet an Asian American until eighth grade,
Speaker 3: but then once you get to know Asian Americans, then
Speaker 3: you start to have a more well rounded understanding of
Speaker 3: them and hopefully developed good friendships.
Speaker 1: So, Ronnie, how do you get me to care about
Speaker 1: your shitt I don't mean Asians, I mean me is
Speaker 1: Roy caring about Ronnie's problems? Just your personal props?
Speaker 2: Man? Get you invested into my life. Maybe give you
Speaker 2: some equity.
Speaker 1: Should listen to your bitcoin fifteen. But that's a separate conversation.
Speaker 2: I mean we are pretty invested in each other's lives already.
Speaker 2: I think I think the community as a whole. You know. Uh,
Speaker 2: someone put it to me really well once. Look, I
Speaker 2: don't have the solutions, man, I tell jokes and bars
Speaker 2: for a living. I don't know how to save the world.
Speaker 2: What I do know is that yeah, we we there's
Speaker 2: more good people than bad people in America, and that
Speaker 2: goes for minority groups. There's more good minority group. People
Speaker 2: goes it out saying obviously than bad people. And when
Speaker 2: we join together on issues that we do agree on,
Speaker 2: it increases our voting strength. It creates a more powerful
Speaker 2: voting block. Because Asian people are what four percent? Nor
Speaker 2: was it four percent.
Speaker 1: Strong?
Speaker 2: Right? And what's the African Americans? What thirteen thirteen?
Speaker 1: You cannon just had four more kids?
Speaker 2: African Latinos? How what if you join all together? There's
Speaker 2: a voting block there, you know, there's a vote stronger
Speaker 2: voting block which which allows you if we work together
Speaker 2: to get legislation pass it, it benefits all of us,
Speaker 2: you know, and nothing against white people too. We need
Speaker 2: white people to help out, and most white people are
Speaker 2: on board. But when you're it's so hard to explain sometimes,
Speaker 2: and that's why only minorities get that, And that's why
Speaker 2: we should get along in America's because sometimes it's not
Speaker 2: that anyone is blatantly being evil, it's just that the
Speaker 2: system itself in a way that you can't even begin
Speaker 2: to explain the issues you're having. How many times have
Speaker 2: you gone into a room and been like, now, these
Speaker 2: people are even gonna get what I'm saying. I'm talking
Speaker 2: about my you know, Asian grandma on the streets who
Speaker 2: don't you know, they don't understand what you know, they're
Speaker 2: not gonna get it, whereas if you talk to Latino people,
Speaker 2: black people, they'll understand it more. And so if we
Speaker 2: can get more like minded people in decision making positions,
Speaker 2: you know, that's where kind of we can stop moving
Speaker 2: the needle with change, and that's why we should be
Speaker 2: joining together as a voting block. You know, that's my
Speaker 2: argument to you, Roy. I mean, you can also play
Speaker 2: back on me as you always do, and you know
Speaker 2: we can America continue on at least less.
Speaker 1: You know what I've view I viewed America as a DMV,
Speaker 1: and everybody's in there for their own issue. But the
Speaker 1: moment one person starts complaining, you need three other people
Speaker 1: to start complaining and then that line of justice will
Speaker 1: move a little bit faster. Norman Chen from Launch, thank
Speaker 1: you so much leading Asian American Unite for Change. Visit
Speaker 1: them online launch dot org. That's launched like the Space
Speaker 1: Shuttle with two a's launch because I know I have
Speaker 1: a Southern drawl, and you think I said lunch, and
Speaker 1: I didn't say lunch, I said launch like a rocket.
Speaker 1: Two a's dot org. Norman, thank you so much, for
Speaker 1: coming beyond the scenes with me.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much, Roy, Thank you, Ronnie and Ronnie.
Speaker 1: I'll I'll see you when whenever the fuck we're back.
Speaker 2: In the office soon. Man, got clean up your side.
Speaker 1: Please, Okay, all right, that's it, take care of everybody.
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