WEBVTT - 1: Not a Cult 0:00:07.160 --> 0:00:09.560 When I get on the bus that goes from Tallahassee 0:00:09.640 --> 0:00:13.119 to Orlando, Florida, I don't think I've been inside a 0:00:13.240 --> 0:00:18.040 church in eight years. And just to put your mind 0:00:18.160 --> 0:00:21.240 at ease from the jump, this isn't a show about 0:00:21.320 --> 0:00:24.200 my journey to religion. But I am taking the bus 0:00:24.280 --> 0:00:27.680 to Orlando on a late January morning this year, headed 0:00:27.720 --> 0:00:31.040 for one of the only spiritualist camps in the American South, 0:00:31.480 --> 0:00:38.639 And in my head, I'm calling it Ghost Church. Oh, 0:00:39.080 --> 0:00:43.080 name of the show already getting spicy. The coach bus 0:00:43.120 --> 0:00:45.120 I'm on costs a little too much money, but it's 0:00:45.159 --> 0:00:47.360 only four hours and it's pretty quiet, and no one 0:00:47.400 --> 0:00:50.720 sits next to me, so it's fine. I don't think 0:00:50.720 --> 0:00:53.400 anyone else on this bus is going to Ghost Church, 0:00:53.640 --> 0:00:56.440 strictly based on the fact that the bus driver himself 0:00:56.920 --> 0:01:00.120 praise before we get on the bus. He said, is 0:01:00.160 --> 0:01:11.319 this so if you couldn't hear, he's saying, Amen, ride 0:01:11.360 --> 0:01:14.840 the bus, Mr Gregory, ride the bus, And so we do. 0:01:14.920 --> 0:01:16.839 We ride the bus all the way to the tourist 0:01:16.920 --> 0:01:19.679 capital of the world, along with a camp of mystics 0:01:19.680 --> 0:01:22.560 about a half hour off. The camp um heading to 0:01:22.760 --> 0:01:26.920 is called Cassadega. It's just outside of Orlando and is 0:01:26.959 --> 0:01:30.480 a spiritualist camp, a place where mediums commune with the 0:01:30.560 --> 0:01:33.640 dead and have developed their own community since the late 0:01:33.680 --> 0:01:36.680 eighteen hundreds. The people around them find it to be 0:01:36.760 --> 0:01:40.520 the devil's work or at best a little weird. The 0:01:40.560 --> 0:01:44.039 tourists find it intriguing, and I want to know who 0:01:44.200 --> 0:01:48.680 ends up in a place like this and why. I 0:01:48.760 --> 0:01:52.040 was brought up between many religions and we kind of 0:01:52.080 --> 0:01:56.120 believed in this stuff, but not completely. It's definitely not 0:01:56.200 --> 0:01:58.800 the kind of stuff that Mr Gregory would approve of. 0:01:59.560 --> 0:02:05.080 The religion and called Spiritualism, occasionally referred to as American Spiritualism, 0:02:05.080 --> 0:02:07.960 has been around in the official sense beginning in eighteen 0:02:08.040 --> 0:02:11.520 forty eight, although it's central concept that the dead don't 0:02:11.560 --> 0:02:16.520 die has been around for centuries. Their newer idea is 0:02:16.560 --> 0:02:19.840 this that wanting to communicate with the dead is a 0:02:19.880 --> 0:02:22.680 good thing. So in this show, I'm taking you on 0:02:22.800 --> 0:02:26.160 two different trips. The first is how spiritualism got to 0:02:26.200 --> 0:02:28.840 where it is now as a religion that came up 0:02:28.840 --> 0:02:31.720 with the Shakers and the Mormons, but never really caught 0:02:31.760 --> 0:02:35.880 on in a meaningful way due to repeated scandal or 0:02:36.240 --> 0:02:39.520 a religion that was begun completely by accident by two 0:02:39.520 --> 0:02:44.440 preteen sisters, as either divine intervention or, as many, including 0:02:44.440 --> 0:02:48.280 the sisters themselves, have suggested, a prank that turned into 0:02:48.360 --> 0:02:51.400 one of the only ways that an unmarried, lower middle 0:02:51.440 --> 0:02:54.720 class woman could make a name for herself. The second 0:02:54.760 --> 0:02:57.880 journey is the one I took to Cassadega this year, 0:02:58.240 --> 0:03:00.400 where I got a chance to meet people in person, 0:03:00.760 --> 0:03:03.520 interview them, get to know what it's like to be 0:03:03.560 --> 0:03:06.200 a medium, and figure out what the funk is going 0:03:06.280 --> 0:03:08.640 on there and how in the short history of American 0:03:08.680 --> 0:03:13.200 spiritualism so much has changed, And of course I get 0:03:13.200 --> 0:03:16.760 to talk to the ghost. What I will disclaim at 0:03:16.760 --> 0:03:18.760 the beginning of all of this is that I don't 0:03:19.280 --> 0:03:23.160 not believe in the concept of spirit. It's called spirit 0:03:23.200 --> 0:03:26.040 in the West, or chi or sock t in the East. 0:03:26.560 --> 0:03:30.240 I'm open to it. So this podcast isn't an endorsement, 0:03:30.320 --> 0:03:32.520 but I do find it important in my work and 0:03:32.560 --> 0:03:35.040 in my life in general to be open to things 0:03:35.400 --> 0:03:37.840 and take them seriously and report what I'm seeing and 0:03:37.920 --> 0:03:40.600 noticing and feeling as I go through that process. So 0:03:40.680 --> 0:03:43.360 there's a lot of ship I don't like about spiritualism, 0:03:43.360 --> 0:03:45.080 but there's a lot of ship that I do, and 0:03:45.160 --> 0:03:47.240 most of it I want to just present to you 0:03:47.400 --> 0:03:51.320 to draw your own conclusions. I don't particularly care what 0:03:51.440 --> 0:03:54.840 you believe, and I won't force or harp anything that 0:03:54.920 --> 0:03:58.040 I believe on you or don't. This is a show 0:03:58.120 --> 0:04:01.920 about an endangered American legion, how it came to exist, 0:04:02.280 --> 0:04:05.200 who's drawn to it, and whether there's really any chance 0:04:05.240 --> 0:04:07.920 that will stick around. If you don't like it, you 0:04:07.920 --> 0:04:10.600 can take it up with the ghosts. Oh no, do 0:04:10.640 --> 0:04:20.520 I believe in ghosts? The show is starting good. That 0:04:24.960 --> 0:05:13.080 closes o for reasons I don't completely understand myself. All 0:05:13.240 --> 0:05:17.000 roads have been pulling me to Florida for months, and 0:05:17.080 --> 0:05:20.120 when one is pulled to Florida, it's natural to want 0:05:20.200 --> 0:05:24.320 to pull back. There's this feeling of are you fucking 0:05:24.360 --> 0:05:27.080 kidding me? That's not very nice? Have I not suffered 0:05:27.160 --> 0:05:29.600 enough in this life? But the thing is, the places 0:05:29.680 --> 0:05:32.360 that are a common punchline in the way that Florida 0:05:32.560 --> 0:05:37.680 is are usually pretty interesting places with pretty fucked up people, 0:05:37.880 --> 0:05:41.240 and not for nothing, almost always have free popcorn in 0:05:41.279 --> 0:05:44.760 their bars. I'm from a place like that too. Unfortunately, 0:05:45.080 --> 0:05:48.200 for Death and for Florida, it was in just a 0:05:48.360 --> 0:05:52.800 funked up enough headspace to consider going. So let's get 0:05:52.839 --> 0:05:57.120 started with some ground rules. What is spiritualism and what 0:05:57.440 --> 0:06:01.680 isn't spiritualism. I've been to Cassadego once before with my 0:06:01.760 --> 0:06:05.600 mom in It's not something I would talk about much 0:06:05.680 --> 0:06:08.320 where I live in Los Angeles, and in part because 0:06:08.360 --> 0:06:11.679 it's such a Southern California cliche, and in part because 0:06:11.760 --> 0:06:14.080 it is the best way to start a conversation with 0:06:14.120 --> 0:06:18.000 someone extremely frustrating. I try not to be self conscious 0:06:18.000 --> 0:06:20.080 about it. You know, it's my It's my personal belief 0:06:20.120 --> 0:06:22.640 that as long as you don't literally run your life 0:06:22.680 --> 0:06:26.160 by tarot cards and crystals, they're really no more harmful 0:06:26.200 --> 0:06:29.440 than a hobby like journaling or video games, or my 0:06:29.480 --> 0:06:31.719 favorite toxic trait that you're not allowed to say anything 0:06:31.760 --> 0:06:36.000 about having a lot of guitar pedals. I like a 0:06:36.120 --> 0:06:38.359 level with you. I've spent way too much money about 0:06:38.400 --> 0:06:41.320 once a year getting my cards read, sometimes by someone 0:06:41.320 --> 0:06:44.360 who I felt was really attuned to me, and more 0:06:44.440 --> 0:06:48.279 often a failed actor aggressively pivoting into their new method 0:06:48.440 --> 0:06:52.160 role of being fine with it. There's even years I've 0:06:52.200 --> 0:06:54.560 gone twice. If I'm going through a breakup, you know, 0:06:54.600 --> 0:06:58.200 I'll go twice. There's something comforting about it about imagining 0:06:58.240 --> 0:07:01.240 your life in an order. Oh no, here's the tower 0:07:01.279 --> 0:07:04.360 cards sudden of people. But okay, here's the Star card 0:07:04.440 --> 0:07:07.680 that's renewal and and rest. You're right, I should go 0:07:07.760 --> 0:07:10.000 across the street to the place where they serve eggs 0:07:10.040 --> 0:07:14.200 like that. It's what the card said. During my last breakup, 0:07:14.240 --> 0:07:17.440 I found going to online videos of cards read by 0:07:17.480 --> 0:07:20.240 these upbeat young women who are cheering you on was 0:07:20.320 --> 0:07:23.560 really comforting. They kind of sound like this, this is 0:07:23.600 --> 0:07:25.920 Aso Taro. And in today's pick a card reading, we 0:07:25.960 --> 0:07:28.800 are going to be looking at how your person is 0:07:28.840 --> 0:07:32.120 currently feeling about you. And so by your person, I 0:07:32.160 --> 0:07:34.960 mean ideally the person that you are thinking of. You 0:07:35.040 --> 0:07:38.480 might find another person comes through, or you might find 0:07:38.600 --> 0:07:41.480 I'm describing your feelings. Okay, fine, that's maybe maybe it's 0:07:41.480 --> 0:07:44.600 a little embarrassing, but you need it sometimes to cope, 0:07:44.880 --> 0:07:48.680 you know. But none of this is spiritualism. I want 0:07:48.680 --> 0:07:51.000 to be clear on that the general woo woo of 0:07:51.040 --> 0:07:55.120 it all intersects with spiritualism, but I'm not talking about 0:07:55.200 --> 0:07:58.680 something that broad because the idea has sort of spiraled 0:07:58.720 --> 0:08:00.840 out in the last several decades. It's to the point 0:08:00.840 --> 0:08:04.480 where the phrase I'm more spiritual than religious is kind 0:08:04.520 --> 0:08:08.240 of a line that you hear from lapsed Catholics, but 0:08:08.360 --> 0:08:12.880 spiritualism itself is actually very specific. This series will address 0:08:12.920 --> 0:08:15.240 some of the cultures and ideas they pull from, going 0:08:15.280 --> 0:08:19.120 back hundreds of thousands of years, the lore behind seances, 0:08:19.200 --> 0:08:22.920 the appropriation of indigenous culture. The camp that I'm going 0:08:22.960 --> 0:08:28.120 to considers itself uniquely American. Whether you consider that a 0:08:28.120 --> 0:08:31.160 pejorative or not is up to you. I well, I'm 0:08:31.160 --> 0:08:33.960 trying to put my opinions in this list, but obviously 0:08:34.000 --> 0:08:38.760 it is. My name is Jamie Loftus, and I love 0:08:39.000 --> 0:08:42.800 a freaky little American corner to wedge myself into. I 0:08:42.840 --> 0:08:46.360 grew up between a lot of different religions. I was 0:08:46.400 --> 0:08:50.440 baptized Catholic in a way that felt pretty mandatory, being 0:08:50.520 --> 0:08:53.800 raised by two lapsed Catholics in New England. And well, 0:08:53.800 --> 0:08:56.600 actually I've been sorting through my archives recently. This is 0:08:56.640 --> 0:08:58.760 what it sounds like to be baptized in New England. 0:08:59.200 --> 0:09:07.440 I'm glad to you, becker Father. Okay, who is this, Jamie, Jamie, 0:09:07.559 --> 0:09:13.720 that's right, come right in, Please come right in, reach out, 0:09:14.640 --> 0:09:20.080 all right, and this is Jamie Bethany. Jamie Bethany, I 0:09:20.240 --> 0:09:24.760 baptize you in the name of the Father, and of 0:09:24.880 --> 0:09:29.760 the Son and of the Holy Spirit. But by the 0:09:29.800 --> 0:09:32.720 time I was forming sentient memories, we had already switched. 0:09:33.080 --> 0:09:35.560 My dad left the church in the weekly sense when 0:09:35.640 --> 0:09:39.600 his dad passed away, or transitioned to spirit in the 0:09:39.720 --> 0:09:43.600 terms of spiritualism of ghost Church. So my mom and 0:09:43.640 --> 0:09:46.920 I sort of hop scotched over to a Protestant Congregational 0:09:47.000 --> 0:09:49.680 church that my cousins went to, and I liked it there. 0:09:49.880 --> 0:09:51.720 It was one of the only churches in town where 0:09:51.760 --> 0:09:56.160 queer people were welcome, where there was a gay priest. 0:09:56.800 --> 0:09:59.760 It was fun, everyone was nice. I asked my mom 0:09:59.800 --> 0:10:02.120 as she liked our church more than the one she 0:10:02.160 --> 0:10:04.560 grew up in once and she sort of sighed and 0:10:04.720 --> 0:10:08.079 was like, at least they have the lights on here 0:10:08.240 --> 0:10:11.640 Jesus Christ, which I think is the second most two 0:10:11.720 --> 0:10:15.840 thousands eras scathing takedown of the Catholic church in Massachusetts, 0:10:15.960 --> 0:10:20.240 second only to Spotlight. But after about a decade of that, 0:10:20.360 --> 0:10:23.760 we were bored, and my preteen frustration with the concept 0:10:23.840 --> 0:10:26.760 of a confirmation class happened to line up with my 0:10:26.800 --> 0:10:32.640 mom's midlife crisis where she got a tattoo and more relevant, 0:10:32.960 --> 0:10:36.560 wanted to start exploring the spiritualist ideas that her childhood 0:10:36.559 --> 0:10:39.560 best friend, my Annie Karen, had been exploring for years 0:10:39.760 --> 0:10:43.600 with her husband, my uncle Dennis. I love my Auntie 0:10:43.640 --> 0:10:46.160 and uncle. They had a house with a backyard that 0:10:46.240 --> 0:10:49.160 just kind of smelled really good, and they had tarot 0:10:49.160 --> 0:10:52.200 cards and runs and this huge cabinet that was carved 0:10:52.240 --> 0:10:54.880 to look like a wizard. And these ideas were just 0:10:54.920 --> 0:10:58.600 so different from anything that I'd ever heard about religion 0:10:58.800 --> 0:11:02.160 or faith. And so once a year for my birthday, 0:11:02.400 --> 0:11:04.439 I would get to go see my uncle Dennis and 0:11:04.559 --> 0:11:08.360 get a reading. Sometimes he'd use runs, sometimes he'd use cards, 0:11:08.440 --> 0:11:11.280 and I would sit quietly, like you do with relatives 0:11:11.280 --> 0:11:13.720 you only see once a year, and I would just 0:11:13.760 --> 0:11:16.560 listen to what each card meant and what that had 0:11:16.600 --> 0:11:18.320 to do with what the fifth grade was going to 0:11:18.360 --> 0:11:21.600 be like. One time we went to a pagan church 0:11:21.760 --> 0:11:25.640 that they recommended that was outside. There were these rituals 0:11:25.679 --> 0:11:28.439 that were led by women who talked to trees. And 0:11:28.679 --> 0:11:30.520 maybe it was the harsh way that your eyes have 0:11:30.600 --> 0:11:33.400 to kind of adjust from a completely dark church where 0:11:33.679 --> 0:11:36.280 God is mad at you to standing outside where the 0:11:36.280 --> 0:11:39.200 trees are giving you advice about middle school. But it 0:11:39.280 --> 0:11:42.640 was a little overwhelming and we only went once and 0:11:42.720 --> 0:11:46.960 after that we quit church altogether. But around this time, 0:11:46.960 --> 0:11:49.560 in the mid two thousands, something was going on in 0:11:49.640 --> 0:11:53.280 the US. There was this sudden increased interest in the 0:11:53.400 --> 0:11:57.199 concept called spirit, the idea that we didn't die permanently 0:11:57.400 --> 0:12:00.480 like atheist thought, but we also didn't go to heaven 0:12:00.559 --> 0:12:03.400 or hell or were born into sin like the Catholic 0:12:03.480 --> 0:12:07.240 Church said. The alternative was that after you die, you 0:12:07.320 --> 0:12:11.360 sort of stay local. You watched the people you cared 0:12:11.360 --> 0:12:15.559 about in life, you guide the living. There's a possibility 0:12:15.640 --> 0:12:18.360 that you could even live again, take some time off, 0:12:18.440 --> 0:12:21.480 and then live again and again and again. There were 0:12:21.480 --> 0:12:25.559 suddenly these celebrity psychics, big names like James Van Prague 0:12:25.679 --> 0:12:28.880 that it materialized in the late nineties, followed by your 0:12:28.880 --> 0:12:33.280 TV personalities like Sylvia Brown and for me, John Edward 0:12:33.360 --> 0:12:36.320 and crossing Over brought a medium from Long Island, not 0:12:36.440 --> 0:12:39.600 to be confused with the Long Island medium into our 0:12:39.640 --> 0:12:43.040 living room via this guy in a tight sweater and 0:12:43.120 --> 0:12:45.760 glasses telling women who looked like my mom that the 0:12:45.800 --> 0:12:49.760 dead aren't dead and that it's not scary. In pop culture, 0:12:49.840 --> 0:12:52.960 the idea of spirit was kind of all over the place. 0:12:53.600 --> 0:12:56.480 There were these more benevolent spirits. You know, you've got 0:12:56.720 --> 0:12:59.520 Devin Sawa showing up to your dance at the end 0:12:59.559 --> 0:13:04.800 of cal for with this vaguely Christian unfinished business, or 0:13:05.080 --> 0:13:09.880 you've got the Catholic interpretation of spirit just absolute scumspewing 0:13:10.000 --> 0:13:13.160 possession movies where your head turns around three hundred sixty 0:13:13.200 --> 0:13:16.120 degrees and you yell at a poor Catholic priest, what 0:13:16.160 --> 0:13:19.560 did they ever do? Well? Uh, you can google that. 0:13:20.280 --> 0:13:22.880 In the religions I grew up around, the dead would 0:13:22.920 --> 0:13:26.800 be judged and God was piste off. They tend to 0:13:26.880 --> 0:13:30.880 view children as being born into sin and compel them 0:13:30.920 --> 0:13:33.719 to spend their whole lives pulling themselves out of it. 0:13:34.120 --> 0:13:39.000 But spiritualism takes the opposite tack. According to them, children 0:13:39.080 --> 0:13:43.840 are born into infinite potential and love, and his potential 0:13:44.000 --> 0:13:47.360 is only helped or harmed through their own actions in life. 0:13:51.000 --> 0:13:54.319 So what is Ghost Church? That's what I wanted to 0:13:54.400 --> 0:13:57.680 learn going into this series. What I knew is that 0:13:57.760 --> 0:14:01.360 it's a religion, and it's a small all religion and 0:14:01.440 --> 0:14:04.640 one that combines more elements of Christianity than I realized. 0:14:05.200 --> 0:14:08.160 I was surprised to hear that, lacking a seminal text 0:14:08.200 --> 0:14:12.240 of their own, spiritualists list the Bible ever heard of 0:14:12.240 --> 0:14:17.200 her as their text. But most importantly, spiritualists don't believe 0:14:17.280 --> 0:14:20.400 in heaven or hell. According to them, the dead remain 0:14:20.480 --> 0:14:23.840 among us, rejoining the energetic flow of the universe that 0:14:23.960 --> 0:14:27.920 surround us, and spiritualist mediums and healers are able to 0:14:28.320 --> 0:14:35.160 see clairvoyance here Clare audience feel Clare Touch. I love 0:14:35.200 --> 0:14:37.520 that one. It sounds like just like a cartoon character, 0:14:38.200 --> 0:14:45.200 Claire touch and receive mental messages from spirit. They do 0:14:45.320 --> 0:14:49.480 believe that Jesus existed, but not that he was a god. Instead, 0:14:49.800 --> 0:14:54.320 he's repeatedly referenced as one of history's great spiritual healers 0:14:54.400 --> 0:14:58.800 and mediums, referencing biblical canon like his returning to Earth 0:14:58.880 --> 0:15:02.960 in spirit, is, ability to communicate with angels and ghosts, 0:15:03.600 --> 0:15:06.880 and the very concept of the Holy Spirit as proof 0:15:07.200 --> 0:15:11.800 that their religion is a part of the Christian expanded universe. 0:15:12.640 --> 0:15:14.720 You may not be surprised to hear that a lot 0:15:14.800 --> 0:15:18.880 of Christians are really not thrilled to hear this, but 0:15:18.960 --> 0:15:23.600 as it evolved, American spiritualism went beyond diet Christianity minus 0:15:23.640 --> 0:15:28.560 heaven and help plus ghosts. Nowadays, spiritualists come to the 0:15:28.600 --> 0:15:33.360 religion from all kinds of religious backgrounds. Since the nineteen sixties, 0:15:33.440 --> 0:15:39.960 Eastern religions have influenced modern spiritualists and slowly introduced reincarnation concepts, 0:15:40.400 --> 0:15:43.240 with at least one medium working at Cassadaga now who 0:15:43.280 --> 0:15:47.800 converted from Hinduism. There's also the New Age movement that 0:15:47.880 --> 0:15:51.240 layers onto spiritualism very well, and that's an important thing. 0:15:51.640 --> 0:15:56.080 The vast majority of spiritualists came from other religions, ones 0:15:56.160 --> 0:16:00.120 that they were either traumatized by or didn't incorporate the 0:16:00.160 --> 0:16:03.800 way they saw the afterlife, or didn't believe in mediumship. 0:16:04.840 --> 0:16:07.280 I'll be talking to a number of mediums and community 0:16:07.320 --> 0:16:12.360 members who range from lifelong former Atheists to former hardcore 0:16:12.440 --> 0:16:16.880 Southern Baptists and what that transition looked like for them. 0:16:16.960 --> 0:16:21.120 Spiritualism doesn't tend to be multigenerational. It's just as individual 0:16:21.200 --> 0:16:25.280 and experience as the individual spirits that come through after 0:16:25.360 --> 0:16:30.760 they're fascinatingly Christian feelings Sunday services. And yet they also 0:16:30.960 --> 0:16:35.120 insist that there is a scientific basis for the religion 0:16:35.400 --> 0:16:38.360 when I'm still trying to wrap my head around. This 0:16:38.440 --> 0:16:41.960 is a quote from the National Spiritualist Association of Churches 0:16:42.240 --> 0:16:50.120 Spiritualist manual quote. Spiritualism is a science because it investigates, analyzes, 0:16:50.400 --> 0:16:55.040 and classifies facts and manifestations demonstrated from the spirit side 0:16:55.080 --> 0:16:59.200 of life. Unquote. Ghost church is a holdover from the 0:16:59.240 --> 0:17:03.400 industrial illusition in nearly every way. It has one foot 0:17:03.480 --> 0:17:08.040 in classical religious ideas, the other in aspirational sort of 0:17:08.080 --> 0:17:12.520 half proven scientific ideas. There's something about it that's optimistic 0:17:12.560 --> 0:17:16.560 and a little half baked all at once. Okay, so 0:17:16.920 --> 0:17:20.880 what isn't ghost church? Because when you bring up spirits 0:17:20.920 --> 0:17:23.800 and you bring up a small community in Florida, the 0:17:23.840 --> 0:17:27.400 first reaction you're going to get from most people is, well, 0:17:27.480 --> 0:17:30.160 that sounds like a cult. And stay with me here. 0:17:31.160 --> 0:17:33.720 It's not a cult, or at least not any more 0:17:33.800 --> 0:17:37.160 of a cult than any other religion. And honestly, if 0:17:37.160 --> 0:17:40.720 spiritualism was a cult, they'd probably be doing better numbers 0:17:40.760 --> 0:17:46.000 in terms of membership and income. Spiritualism is a fringe religion, 0:17:46.280 --> 0:17:48.920 and I hear you cult cult, It's not a cult. 0:17:49.119 --> 0:17:52.080 I hear you again saying not a cult. Means cult, 0:17:52.560 --> 0:17:55.560 and usually you'll be right. But Spiritualism is not a cult, 0:17:55.840 --> 0:17:59.720 although it's formal numbers are small cult sized, one could 0:17:59.720 --> 0:18:02.560 say small enough in fact, that the manual I was 0:18:02.640 --> 0:18:06.160 just reading from admits on one of its first pages 0:18:06.240 --> 0:18:09.040 that there aren't a lot of people involved, and that 0:18:09.119 --> 0:18:12.040 there's really no concerted effort going on to change that. 0:18:12.680 --> 0:18:16.239 It says, quote, this manual is designed to be a 0:18:16.240 --> 0:18:20.320 handbook for ministers, speakers, and students. It is hoped that 0:18:20.440 --> 0:18:23.960 spiritualists generally will find it helpful in presenting the teachings 0:18:24.000 --> 0:18:27.240 of spiritualism, and that in sections of our country where 0:18:27.240 --> 0:18:30.920 there are few spiritualists and no mediums or speakers, it 0:18:30.960 --> 0:18:33.920 will be an aid to willing workers in holding regular 0:18:33.960 --> 0:18:40.000 meetings or other services. Unquote, this rhetoric is just too 0:18:40.119 --> 0:18:42.159 chill to be a cult, but you don't need to 0:18:42.200 --> 0:18:46.480 take my word for it. In her Cultish, Amanda Montell 0:18:46.560 --> 0:18:50.760 breaks down the mechanics of language and classical recruiting techniques 0:18:50.800 --> 0:18:55.280 of cult like atmospheres, religious or otherwise, ranging in severity 0:18:55.400 --> 0:18:59.680 from really intense peloton instructors and multi level marketing schemes 0:18:59.720 --> 0:19:03.320 all away to Jonestown and Heaven's Gate and she narrows 0:19:03.359 --> 0:19:08.040 down these classic cult red flags, including things like quote 0:19:08.080 --> 0:19:11.520 unquote truth telling, ceremonies to give the leaders as much 0:19:11.560 --> 0:19:16.840 information about each individual as possible, complete immersion in the cult, 0:19:17.040 --> 0:19:21.720 no clear time when rituals have begun or ended, behavioral 0:19:21.720 --> 0:19:27.040 control think sleep deprivation, diet changes, schedule, dictation, the whole 0:19:27.119 --> 0:19:31.879 nine yards. A charismatic central leader, usually a man, and 0:19:32.040 --> 0:19:36.359 usually attracting young white women to the fold, where spiritualism doesn't. 0:19:36.400 --> 0:19:38.520 There's a lot of white ladies, but there's no young 0:19:38.600 --> 0:19:42.240 people really at all. Doomsday rhetoric when a leader's power 0:19:42.320 --> 0:19:47.040 starts to slip, withholding information by minimizing or discouraging access 0:19:47.080 --> 0:19:51.640 to non cult information, threats or forced isolation if one 0:19:51.680 --> 0:19:55.480 tries to leave, and all of these emotions, stopping techniques 0:19:55.640 --> 0:19:59.399 to suppress any doubt, and whether the ghost aspect of 0:19:59.440 --> 0:20:02.040 all of this freaks you out or not. None of 0:20:02.080 --> 0:20:05.720 these red flags really apply to Spiritualism at all, so 0:20:06.320 --> 0:20:20.680 verdict not occult. There's a world in which I could 0:20:20.720 --> 0:20:23.640 see them becoming a cult. I mean, after all, we're 0:20:23.720 --> 0:20:26.800 kind of in this cultural moment where interest in communicating 0:20:26.840 --> 0:20:29.840 with the dead, with mysticism, with pick a card, tero 0:20:29.960 --> 0:20:33.040 readings on YouTube are at an all time high, and 0:20:33.040 --> 0:20:36.760 the spiritualists who commune all over the country, mostly in 0:20:36.880 --> 0:20:40.800 lily Dale, New York, and Cassadega, Florida, tick literally all 0:20:40.840 --> 0:20:45.000 of these boxes. Spiritualism even blends a combination of religions 0:20:45.040 --> 0:20:48.960 and buzzwords that should mean it's thriving. They borrow Eastern 0:20:49.000 --> 0:20:53.600 principles like chakras, indigenous ideas like spirit guides on this 0:20:53.760 --> 0:20:58.720 bedrock of diet, Christianity, and a belief in Jesus. Granted, 0:20:58.760 --> 0:21:01.960 they don't use many of these beliefs particularly well, but 0:21:02.080 --> 0:21:05.840 their batting average isn't any worse than a Gwyneth Paltrow type. 0:21:06.320 --> 0:21:09.040 But as it is, Spiritualism has no interest in being 0:21:09.080 --> 0:21:11.439 a cult, and they don't really have the runway to 0:21:11.480 --> 0:21:14.280 make it that way anyways. A lot of the mediums 0:21:14.280 --> 0:21:17.439 in Cassadega have day jobs. Most of them live in 0:21:17.440 --> 0:21:21.400 the community but regularly leave to see outside family and friends, 0:21:21.480 --> 0:21:25.119 go shopping, see movies, move about the world as regular people. 0:21:25.760 --> 0:21:28.760 They don't have much of an alternative. There's no food 0:21:28.840 --> 0:21:32.560 store in Cassadega, and the only restaurant there is open 0:21:32.680 --> 0:21:34.960 four and a half days out of the week. Something 0:21:35.000 --> 0:21:38.800 that becomes very problematic during my time. They're mediums make 0:21:38.840 --> 0:21:42.800 their own schedules, and for regular attendees of the Spiritualist temple, 0:21:43.200 --> 0:21:46.320 the parameters of when they are on and off ritual 0:21:46.400 --> 0:21:50.159 wise are pretty clear. They go to weekly services, they 0:21:50.200 --> 0:21:54.560 go to individual readings or scheduled classes. Members of the 0:21:54.640 --> 0:21:58.000 church tend to join and leave the religion pretty often. 0:21:58.760 --> 0:22:02.240 At one spiritualist church in Massachusetts, a vice president of 0:22:02.280 --> 0:22:06.320 a dwindling congregation was the first to comfortably admit that 0:22:06.359 --> 0:22:08.679 the people who come to our church tend to float 0:22:08.720 --> 0:22:11.760 in during a difficult time in their lives, often when 0:22:11.800 --> 0:22:14.800 they are a loved one, are struggling with illness mental 0:22:14.920 --> 0:22:18.359 or physical, or while they're struggling with a loss, and 0:22:18.400 --> 0:22:21.640 then they tend to leave, sometimes never heard from by 0:22:21.640 --> 0:22:24.280 the church again. And so you got kind of the 0:22:24.280 --> 0:22:27.520 opposite of a cult. You get a religion that appears 0:22:27.560 --> 0:22:31.720 to be on a very slow decline. Those most involved 0:22:31.720 --> 0:22:35.960 in spiritualism are the mediums themselves. In Cassadega, this means 0:22:36.000 --> 0:22:38.720 taking part in a three to four year education process 0:22:38.760 --> 0:22:42.840 that can't be done remotely. It means establishing yourself in 0:22:42.880 --> 0:22:46.560 the community consistently for at least a year before qualifying 0:22:46.600 --> 0:22:51.199 to live on campgrounds. It means demonstrating healing or mediumship 0:22:51.240 --> 0:22:55.840 capabilities in public under supervision. They don't make it easy 0:22:56.040 --> 0:22:58.760 to have this job, and so the majority of mediums 0:22:58.760 --> 0:23:01.720 are either local to Florida with some free time after 0:23:01.760 --> 0:23:05.880 work or around their families, or, as I would soon learn, 0:23:06.320 --> 0:23:09.880 had left their previous lives to become mediums. A job 0:23:09.960 --> 0:23:13.040 that here doesn't result much in the way of financial 0:23:13.080 --> 0:23:17.680 stability or cultural acceptance. So why do people do it? 0:23:18.760 --> 0:23:21.360 It's a question that I have had a somewhat difficult 0:23:21.400 --> 0:23:25.520 time getting answered because for a small community, Cassadega is 0:23:26.040 --> 0:23:29.879 very protective of their members from the press, meaning me. 0:23:30.800 --> 0:23:33.880 There's this pr screening team that seems to consist of 0:23:34.000 --> 0:23:37.919 basically everybody in town, all of whom must approve of 0:23:38.000 --> 0:23:43.080 your presence before they will talk to you. I contacted 0:23:43.080 --> 0:23:45.920 the camp several weeks in advance, and by the time 0:23:45.960 --> 0:23:48.360 I was getting on a plane to Florida, they had 0:23:48.440 --> 0:23:51.280 yet to decide whether they wanted me to come at 0:23:51.320 --> 0:23:55.160 all or not. I was sitting at the airport eating 0:23:55.200 --> 0:23:58.360 a very sad looking donut the week before Valentine's Day 0:23:58.359 --> 0:24:02.439 to indicate yeah, things are going great, and my phone rings, 0:24:02.680 --> 0:24:04.960 and for the first but not the last time, I 0:24:05.000 --> 0:24:09.600 have this nervous response to see an area code from Florida. 0:24:10.000 --> 0:24:14.040 On the other line is Pastor Deb, a woman from Jacksonville, Florida, 0:24:14.119 --> 0:24:17.800 who serves as in this order, a pastor in Cassadega, 0:24:18.160 --> 0:24:21.719 the head of public relations for the Cassadega Spiritualist Camp, 0:24:22.200 --> 0:24:25.440 and an I T specialist in Jacksonville who looks after 0:24:25.480 --> 0:24:29.280 her elderly mother. We've been emailing back and forth for 0:24:29.359 --> 0:24:32.359 around two weeks. Hi, I'm Jamie. I'm going to be 0:24:32.440 --> 0:24:35.000 visiting the camp in early February. Would it be possible 0:24:35.040 --> 0:24:39.160 to speak with someone? The answer was somewhat ambiguous. Can 0:24:39.240 --> 0:24:43.639 I call you? Um? Sure, and so Deb calls me 0:24:43.960 --> 0:24:46.680 twenty minutes before I get on a plane. She has 0:24:46.680 --> 0:24:51.520 a thick but kind Southern accent, one that comes from Louisville, Kentucky, 0:24:51.560 --> 0:24:55.280 where she grew up, not Florida. Mediums in Cassadega are 0:24:55.359 --> 0:24:58.159 kind of like struggling character actors in Los Angeles, Like 0:24:58.280 --> 0:25:01.000 barely any of them are from their most of them 0:25:01.000 --> 0:25:03.680 moved with a desire to completely turn their lives around, 0:25:03.920 --> 0:25:05.960 and they all kind of give the area this like 0:25:06.040 --> 0:25:10.520 weird reputation. Deb is sweet but firm when she gives 0:25:10.560 --> 0:25:14.399 me the rundown. Getting approval at Cassadega is not going 0:25:14.440 --> 0:25:16.959 to be easy, which is an amazing thing to hear 0:25:17.040 --> 0:25:19.679 when you're literally about to get on a plane. I 0:25:19.720 --> 0:25:21.880 put my phone on mute and deep throughout the rest 0:25:21.920 --> 0:25:24.119 of the brownie batter doughnut while she gives me the 0:25:24.160 --> 0:25:27.560 standard rundown of who she is and where she is. 0:25:28.359 --> 0:25:30.960 She has past her deb She has been in Cassadega 0:25:31.040 --> 0:25:34.520 since two thousand and six, she became a certified medium 0:25:34.520 --> 0:25:39.359 in and she's currently vetting three different press requests. So 0:25:39.480 --> 0:25:41.800