WEBVTT - CLASSIC: Flat Earth Update 0:00:00.760 --> 0:00:03.880 Well, uh, I think for long time listeners, you know 0:00:03.960 --> 0:00:06.560 those folks, we have never made a secret about how 0:00:06.720 --> 0:00:10.520 surreal and strange our jobs can be. One day we're 0:00:10.520 --> 0:00:15.159 diving into geopolitics. In another day, someone is starting to 0:00:15.240 --> 0:00:18.800 fight with me on YouTube about flat earth, so much 0:00:18.880 --> 0:00:21.920 so that we did an update on this. You remember 0:00:21.920 --> 0:00:23.600 flat earth. It was quite in vogue for a while. 0:00:23.840 --> 0:00:26.239 But remember when that was like the biggest thing we 0:00:26.280 --> 0:00:28.320 had to worry about. You know, it was like people 0:00:28.480 --> 0:00:31.720 yelling at us about whether the Earth was flat around 0:00:32.600 --> 0:00:36.240 golden times. Yeah, when b O B would just come 0:00:36.240 --> 0:00:39.479 out and say something to sell more records. Is he 0:00:39.520 --> 0:00:40.760 the one who said that you should be able to 0:00:40.760 --> 0:00:43.400 see the curvature of the Earth if you're in an airplane? 0:00:43.400 --> 0:00:46.120 Because that him, the BBC reported back in the day 0:00:46.240 --> 0:00:48.959 that he was raising funds to test whether or not 0:00:49.000 --> 0:00:53.239 the Earth it was in fact flat, and several several 0:00:53.320 --> 0:00:57.800 people were doing the same. In this update, we just figured, 0:00:57.880 --> 0:01:00.960 since we all live in such ry in times now, 0:01:01.280 --> 0:01:03.880 this might be a nice break to look at just 0:01:04.240 --> 0:01:09.160 how strange certain conspiracy theories can become. We do hope 0:01:09.200 --> 0:01:12.440 you enjoy it, and if you have an argument that 0:01:12.480 --> 0:01:17.800 you believe proves that's the vast majority about humanity and 0:01:17.920 --> 0:01:21.319 everything we know about science is somehow incorrect about the 0:01:21.319 --> 0:01:24.039 shape of the planet. As always, we'd love to hear 0:01:24.080 --> 0:01:28.200 from you anyway. Here we go from UFOs to psychic 0:01:28.240 --> 0:01:32.840 powers and government conspiracies. History is riddled with unexplained events. 0:01:33.280 --> 0:01:36.400 You can turn back now or learn the stuff they 0:01:36.440 --> 0:01:46.160 don't quant you to know. Hey, everybody, welcome back to 0:01:46.200 --> 0:01:47.920 the show. My name is Max, my name is not 0:01:48.320 --> 0:01:52.000 you argue, and I am Ben, which makes this stuff 0:01:52.040 --> 0:01:54.400 they don't want you to know. And before we get 0:01:54.480 --> 0:01:57.080 into it, you guys, we've had We've had a lot 0:01:57.120 --> 0:02:04.240 of people asking for shoutouts Chat at Konna. That's right, 0:02:04.320 --> 0:02:07.840 we are returning yet again for an episode of shout 0:02:07.880 --> 0:02:12.079 Out Corner where we just have listeners introduced themselves, say 0:02:12.120 --> 0:02:14.200 something nice. You know, we had we had a really 0:02:14.200 --> 0:02:18.840 cool thing. Jeremy wrote in about his anniversary that was 0:02:18.880 --> 0:02:22.640 pretty cool, and uh, we're gonna We're gonna keep it brief, 0:02:22.720 --> 0:02:25.639 but if you wrote to us, keep writing in who 0:02:25.639 --> 0:02:28.600 are we shouting out today? The first one is Jimmy 0:02:28.720 --> 0:02:32.160 James Kramer. He wrote to us with a really cool story, well, 0:02:32.560 --> 0:02:38.800 a disturbing story about these specific endoscopes that maybe leading 0:02:39.000 --> 0:02:44.400 to U superbug infections because they're very difficult to clean, apparently, 0:02:44.840 --> 0:02:49.480 endoscopes specifically things that let's say, enter orifices in order 0:02:49.520 --> 0:02:52.440 to check out what's going on inside of them in 0:02:52.480 --> 0:02:56.600 the human body. And the problem with these in particulars 0:02:56.600 --> 0:02:58.760 because once he goes in there and it gets the 0:02:58.760 --> 0:03:01.000 equal I had other back heia that might be living 0:03:01.000 --> 0:03:04.040 inside of one human. Then you take it out, remove it, 0:03:04.160 --> 0:03:07.000 try to sterilize it as much as possible. But perhaps 0:03:07.000 --> 0:03:09.760 there are a couple places within the scope, a little 0:03:09.840 --> 0:03:14.040 small nooks and crannies that can't be cleaned well enough 0:03:14.120 --> 0:03:17.640 to be completely sterile, just a little scary. And I 0:03:17.639 --> 0:03:20.079 think there were a couple of recalls at least according 0:03:20.120 --> 0:03:24.040 to drug watch dot com. And I cannot uh. I 0:03:24.080 --> 0:03:27.760 don't know how reputable this site is, unfortunately, but the 0:03:27.800 --> 0:03:29.840 thing that he did send us is pretty creepy. So 0:03:29.919 --> 0:03:32.800 thanks Jimmy. So is a nook and cranny? Is that 0:03:32.960 --> 0:03:39.240 metric system or something? And I think who's next? Well, next, 0:03:39.280 --> 0:03:42.680 we have a delicious shout out to Goostaff von Essen 0:03:42.920 --> 0:03:46.880 from Sweden with love. He suggested doing an episode on 0:03:47.040 --> 0:03:51.280 the ib Affair IB was a secret Swedish intelligence agency 0:03:51.360 --> 0:03:54.280 that is a mouthful that worked with the CIA and 0:03:54.480 --> 0:04:00.440 the Israel security agency. So Gustaf Essen, consider yourself out 0:04:00.440 --> 0:04:05.560 shouted shouted out, and our last one for today goes to, 0:04:06.040 --> 0:04:09.840 uh Lynn. Now I may be mispronouncing your name. Lynn. 0:04:09.880 --> 0:04:13.520 Am I a o uh there on Twitter? Who said 0:04:13.640 --> 0:04:16.880 and I quote uh conspiracy stuff? Could I please have 0:04:16.920 --> 0:04:18.840 a shout out for good luck? It could really help 0:04:18.960 --> 0:04:23.200 on college mid terms? So, uh, Lynn, we wish you 0:04:23.279 --> 0:04:25.640 the best of luck on your mid terms. I hope 0:04:25.680 --> 0:04:28.520 your studies go well. Absolutely, I think we've been there. 0:04:28.920 --> 0:04:31.719 I haven't off the books shout out real quick? Were 0:04:31.720 --> 0:04:33.560 you about to say something? I'm sorry? Oh no, just 0:04:34.000 --> 0:04:37.000 continuing to talk to Lynn. But you know it's cool, 0:04:37.080 --> 0:04:39.239 nol No, No, I didn't know if you had something 0:04:39.279 --> 0:04:44.680 substantial to say. That's not true. Okay, guys, guys, you 0:04:44.839 --> 0:04:47.440 talk about my mat like that. Guys were live? Okay, 0:04:47.520 --> 0:04:50.000 what is it? Mill? Okay? No. I just my dear 0:04:50.120 --> 0:04:54.440 friend Lee, Albert Lee Landers of Augusta, Georgia town, um 0:04:54.760 --> 0:04:57.440 just sent me a text that said, quote shout out 0:04:57.440 --> 0:05:01.239 corner skadooche and he was referencing my off the cuff 0:05:01.440 --> 0:05:05.279 Shoutout Corner theme that we have. Now you know it's cannon. 0:05:05.480 --> 0:05:08.080 Now it's true and yeah and so um, you know, 0:05:08.120 --> 0:05:09.640 he asked if I would give him a shout out 0:05:09.640 --> 0:05:11.400 because this is the first episode he'd ever listened to, 0:05:11.920 --> 0:05:16.320 and so Lee, shout out to you because you're in 0:05:16.440 --> 0:05:19.960 you're in trouble. No, because we just violated one of 0:05:20.000 --> 0:05:22.680 the rules of Shout Out Corner, which is it's around 0:05:22.680 --> 0:05:26.560 three because it's not a shoutout room. So well, actually though, 0:05:27.880 --> 0:05:30.080 if it was only a corner, it should just be one. 0:05:31.000 --> 0:05:33.680 Well no, because then it which room has four corners, 0:05:34.480 --> 0:05:37.920 but a corner like three one one on that side. 0:05:37.960 --> 0:05:41.800 And then I love that we're talking and spatial reason 0:05:41.960 --> 0:05:46.080 because this is perfect. Okay, So before we before we 0:05:46.080 --> 0:05:48.360 get lost in that, I I do, uh, I do? 0:05:48.640 --> 0:05:50.920 I do have to admit that I love the theme. 0:05:51.360 --> 0:05:55.120 And if you enjoy shout Out Corner, then right to us. 0:05:55.680 --> 0:05:58.360 We have a little bit of a list and who knows, 0:05:58.640 --> 0:06:03.440 maybe you can also meet the rest of the listeners. 0:06:04.839 --> 0:06:08.200 Oh gosh, less time on stuff they don't want you 0:06:08.240 --> 0:06:10.600 to know. No, you were on a bit of an 0:06:10.640 --> 0:06:13.159 adventure and we couldn't really talk about it. It was 0:06:13.200 --> 0:06:15.520 a bit of a secret a secret mission. It was 0:06:15.560 --> 0:06:18.480 a bit of a secret mission. But the cat is 0:06:18.520 --> 0:06:22.640 now out of the bag, or should I say the clippy. 0:06:23.600 --> 0:06:25.960 The clip is out of the bag. Badger is out 0:06:25.960 --> 0:06:31.320 of the bag. No listeners, I'm referring to the beloved 0:06:32.240 --> 0:06:38.359 uh Microsoft widget pre widget precursor to the widget. It 0:06:38.440 --> 0:06:42.640 appears was right, and there's a name for it now 0:06:42.680 --> 0:06:46.400 that I can't remember, of that type of of digital assistant. 0:06:46.800 --> 0:06:52.280 What I'm getting at is, guys, over the weekend, I 0:06:52.360 --> 0:06:57.040 took a last minute trip to New York with Josh 0:06:57.080 --> 0:07:02.480 and Chuck from our brother pot cast sister podcast. Would 0:07:02.560 --> 0:07:05.320 have to be gendered about this pure podcasts, pure podcast. 0:07:05.400 --> 0:07:10.240 That's good stuff you should know to interview one Mr 0:07:10.360 --> 0:07:15.960 Bill Gates, creator of the Clippy, and a couple of 0:07:17.040 --> 0:07:22.480 uh Microsoft something about being one of the most wealthy 0:07:22.480 --> 0:07:25.680 men alive in the free world. Um, but yeah, we 0:07:25.720 --> 0:07:29.480 talked to him about renewable energy. He launched a really 0:07:29.480 --> 0:07:33.160 big renewable energy initiative, and all that was embargo. We 0:07:33.200 --> 0:07:36.600 went to a fancy hotel and talked to him, um, 0:07:36.640 --> 0:07:38.720 and then all that stuff hit the news. What I 0:07:38.720 --> 0:07:40.880 think is sort of a little bit of a bummer. 0:07:40.920 --> 0:07:43.600 I think for his folks is the comment that he 0:07:43.640 --> 0:07:47.120 made about that Apple should crack that phone of the 0:07:47.160 --> 0:07:51.680 San Bernardino shooter has overshadowed largely the the stuff that 0:07:51.720 --> 0:07:55.440 he was really trying to promote, sustainable and pushing, which 0:07:55.480 --> 0:07:57.080 I think is a shame. Now you said he was 0:07:57.080 --> 0:07:59.040 a cool guy, though he was super good. He was 0:07:59.120 --> 0:08:01.640 chilled in and he was really surprised that there was 0:08:01.760 --> 0:08:07.000 so few handlers and security. I mean it was very 0:08:07.040 --> 0:08:09.640 low key. He probably keeps a close service, yeah, oh 0:08:09.640 --> 0:08:13.239 for sure, but just about security protocol though there was none. 0:08:13.440 --> 0:08:15.840 Really yeah, we just I mean I get a pat down? 0:08:15.960 --> 0:08:20.160 Got no pat down? Did you? Did you request one? Well? 0:08:20.240 --> 0:08:22.840 I got there early because I'm a little o c 0:08:22.920 --> 0:08:24.880 D about that kind of stuff, and I just want 0:08:24.880 --> 0:08:26.400 to make sure the WiFi was fast enough so that 0:08:26.400 --> 0:08:28.000 I could upload the files real quickly. It was really 0:08:28.000 --> 0:08:30.200 fast turnaround for the for the recording. It was for 0:08:30.400 --> 0:08:33.120 the episode that came out yesterday and the interview took 0:08:33.120 --> 0:08:36.800 place on Monday. Um, So I uploaded them and our 0:08:36.840 --> 0:08:39.599 dear friend Jerry, who is the producer of stuff you 0:08:39.600 --> 0:08:42.719 should Know, received the files and edited the interview into 0:08:42.720 --> 0:08:46.120 the episode and we made the publish deadline, which was 0:08:46.600 --> 0:08:50.320 yesterday morning. Yeah, I quick turnaround and Ladies and gentleman. 0:08:50.360 --> 0:08:54.280 You can check out that episode on iTunes, Stitcher, or 0:08:54.280 --> 0:08:56.959 wherever you like to listen to a podcast, and you 0:08:57.000 --> 0:09:00.439 can hear every Buddy's Chuck and Josh as the Ah 0:09:00.800 --> 0:09:03.679 chop it up with Bill Gates. How weird is it 0:09:03.760 --> 0:09:06.560 that because you were in the same room with Bill 0:09:06.600 --> 0:09:08.760 Gates And I don't know exactly how the degrees of 0:09:08.800 --> 0:09:12.440 separation work necessarily because I think the originally you had 0:09:12.440 --> 0:09:14.560 to send a letter I guess to someone that you 0:09:14.600 --> 0:09:17.800 knew when you were gonna establish the six degrees. But 0:09:18.240 --> 0:09:21.400 that connects you up to some very powerful people, not 0:09:21.440 --> 0:09:23.920 that he isn't perhaps one of the most powerful. It 0:09:24.000 --> 0:09:28.120 was just like the Kevin Bacon game. Yeah, I'm I'm scared. 0:09:28.679 --> 0:09:32.000 One thing that Josh commented on his bill was drinking 0:09:32.120 --> 0:09:35.640 a diet coke um and he left it behind and 0:09:35.679 --> 0:09:39.000 we could have taken it and harvested his DNA. I 0:09:39.040 --> 0:09:42.040 don't know how much effective DNA would get, uh, not 0:09:42.120 --> 0:09:45.000 that I've tried, but from someone's uh not all the 0:09:45.040 --> 0:09:48.600 way consumed soda can. I mean there there's some he 0:09:48.640 --> 0:09:54.400 was lipping it pretty hard, you know what, Let's see 0:09:54.400 --> 0:09:56.560 if let's see if we keep that one. But let's 0:09:56.640 --> 0:10:02.360 also move on. Uh, this week, we are covering an 0:10:02.520 --> 0:10:08.160 update series on the flat Earth theory. Now, our video 0:10:08.200 --> 0:10:11.400 for this is going to come out probably around Sunday night, 0:10:11.520 --> 0:10:15.360 maybe Monday. And what we do in the video is 0:10:15.640 --> 0:10:18.200 walk through some of the recent ideas, some of the 0:10:18.280 --> 0:10:24.280 longstanding misconceptions. And the reason we wanted to do an 0:10:24.360 --> 0:10:31.079 update is uh, pretty pretty important, right, Matt. Yeah, We okay, 0:10:31.120 --> 0:10:34.520 so a long time ago. Take take yourselves back now 0:10:34.679 --> 0:10:40.480 a few years, yes, Ben, because we find ourselves here 0:10:40.480 --> 0:10:42.560 at how stuff works and stuff they don't want you 0:10:42.600 --> 0:10:48.079 to know intertwined into perhaps the story of the modern 0:10:48.160 --> 0:10:52.400 flat earth theory simply because we You and I specifically 0:10:52.559 --> 0:10:55.439 produced a video back in two thousand nine, which then 0:10:55.520 --> 0:10:59.439 got on YouTube in two thousand ten about the theories 0:10:59.559 --> 0:11:03.120 behind the flat Earth in the Flat Earth Society, and 0:11:03.920 --> 0:11:08.480 it was then posted on various forums around the Internet. 0:11:08.520 --> 0:11:12.679 There's one in particular on the Flat Earth Society dot org, 0:11:12.920 --> 0:11:18.320 I believe, where a gentleman named Tom Bishop wrote that specifically, 0:11:18.520 --> 0:11:22.240 quote how stuff works dot com endorses flat earth theory 0:11:22.400 --> 0:11:26.960 unquote and it kind of became a thing that perhaps 0:11:27.200 --> 0:11:30.480 our video is being used to promote the flat earth theory, 0:11:31.480 --> 0:11:36.640 which is an interesting idea because if you watch the video, uh, 0:11:37.120 --> 0:11:40.520 that is clearly not occurring within it. I mean it's 0:11:40.640 --> 0:11:43.640 it's the same formula you guys apply to any video 0:11:43.720 --> 0:11:47.520 you make, where you take an idea, you talk about 0:11:47.559 --> 0:11:52.319 its background, and you describe the people that espouse said idea. 0:11:52.440 --> 0:11:56.080 But that does not make you said espousers. And that's 0:11:56.120 --> 0:11:58.320 the great thing about that forum because if you scroll 0:11:58.360 --> 0:12:01.440 a little bit further down, as guy watched the video, yeah, 0:12:01.440 --> 0:12:03.640 there's at least there are at least three people who 0:12:03.760 --> 0:12:07.760 are commenting endorses a really strong word or maybe you 0:12:07.800 --> 0:12:11.679 didn't watch the whole video, and uh, it's pretty funny. 0:12:11.679 --> 0:12:13.520 They're even using the hero of the facts and here's 0:12:13.520 --> 0:12:16.800 where it gets crazy lines in their commenting back and forth. 0:12:16.880 --> 0:12:19.600 So it was quite amusing. I think the more appropriate 0:12:19.600 --> 0:12:25.439 headline would be how stuff Works makes video about flat Earth. Sure, sure, 0:12:25.559 --> 0:12:28.880 but this is also a surprising thing. As you may 0:12:28.960 --> 0:12:33.760 have heard in recent months, Uh, the concept of a 0:12:33.920 --> 0:12:38.120 flat earth, which is a very ancient concept, gained national 0:12:38.520 --> 0:12:41.560 media attention and more people are talking about it on Twitter, 0:12:41.920 --> 0:12:47.400 on Facebook, on Tumbler, probably on Snapchat. Uh. I don't 0:12:47.440 --> 0:12:49.280 think it can quite compete with some of the other 0:12:49.320 --> 0:12:52.040 pictures on Snapchat, but there's probably a few things. So 0:12:52.360 --> 0:12:55.439 while we're there, back in two thousand ten, two thousand nine, 0:12:55.520 --> 0:12:58.720 let's not stop there. Let's travel further back in time 0:12:59.080 --> 0:13:07.800 to the Iron Age. Okay, here we are, so listeners, 0:13:08.640 --> 0:13:12.520 imagine that you're living in the Iron Age, and imagine 0:13:12.520 --> 0:13:16.120 that you're an average person, pretty successful in your community 0:13:16.440 --> 0:13:20.160 by the standards of the time. Now, you're not extraordinarily successful, 0:13:20.240 --> 0:13:24.800 like a warlord or religious figure or a blacksmith. In fact, 0:13:24.800 --> 0:13:28.360 you're overwhelmingly likely to be a farmer. And you measure 0:13:28.480 --> 0:13:31.920 days not necessarily in hours, but in terms of the 0:13:31.960 --> 0:13:36.200 world's natural rhythm day tonight, the position of the sun, 0:13:36.480 --> 0:13:40.199 phase of the moon, winter to spring and back again. 0:13:40.280 --> 0:13:43.280 And you do not travel widely because this would make 0:13:43.280 --> 0:13:45.720 it difficult to take care of the vital crops upon 0:13:45.840 --> 0:13:48.880 which you and your family depend. Not to mention, it 0:13:48.880 --> 0:13:52.880 would take a long time to get very far at all. Right, 0:13:53.040 --> 0:13:56.720 that's exactly right. And there's I also have a video 0:13:56.760 --> 0:13:58.720 about how long it will take to walk around the 0:13:58.720 --> 0:14:03.360 world for brains stuff, and even today it's very, very 0:14:03.400 --> 0:14:07.040 difficult and pretty dangerous, so forget about it in the 0:14:07.080 --> 0:14:10.559 Iron age, and you know, let's say you're content despite 0:14:10.559 --> 0:14:13.840 the high rates of child mortality. You and your partner 0:14:13.840 --> 0:14:17.040 have had some kids and they're farming too, and you know, 0:14:17.160 --> 0:14:21.080 you you feel like life is good until imagine one 0:14:21.160 --> 0:14:24.840 day a stranger comes to your community. This is a 0:14:24.840 --> 0:14:28.680 person so different that at first you think maybe they're 0:14:28.720 --> 0:14:32.600 not human at all, perhaps they're some sort of divine creature, 0:14:32.720 --> 0:14:36.880 an angel, a demon. This creature turns out to be 0:14:37.240 --> 0:14:43.560 a time traveler from uh in this example, specifically, Matt Frederick. 0:14:44.040 --> 0:14:47.320 And Matt tells you that the world beyond your flat, 0:14:47.400 --> 0:14:52.400 playing and crops and adjacent villages extends beyond the horizon 0:14:53.800 --> 0:14:58.760 farther further. We're talking philosophically. Then you might imagine and 0:14:58.800 --> 0:15:02.440 if you start walking today, says the time traveling Matt Frederick, 0:15:02.640 --> 0:15:06.080 and you always head west, you will end up not 0:15:06.680 --> 0:15:09.840 off the edge of the earth, but back here in 0:15:09.880 --> 0:15:14.120 this very spot. You are standing poppy cock horse wash. 0:15:15.160 --> 0:15:19.160 And why is that, you ask, and the time traveler says, 0:15:20.960 --> 0:15:25.240 because of course the earth is round. Mad you forget 0:15:25.280 --> 0:15:27.080 the time travelers. You so you don't have to do 0:15:27.120 --> 0:15:40.960 a voice because the world is round. Now, you might 0:15:40.960 --> 0:15:44.480 not believe this guy at first, and even if you did, 0:15:45.440 --> 0:15:49.040 your community might kill him anyway, because that's how people are. 0:15:49.440 --> 0:15:53.120 Which right, here's the other thing. You're going to need 0:15:53.160 --> 0:15:56.280 a swimsuit because there will be some swimming involved. But however, 0:15:56.800 --> 0:15:59.920 you can do this. It's yeah, So it's the end 0:16:00.320 --> 0:16:02.800 of the world, or at least the the end of 0:16:02.880 --> 0:16:05.320 the edge of the world as we know it. So 0:16:05.960 --> 0:16:08.560 let's talk about ancient civilizations. It is true that in 0:16:08.560 --> 0:16:13.440 the Iron Age people did believe that the Earth was flat. 0:16:14.640 --> 0:16:19.640 Numerous ancient civilizations did think that right all over the world. Yeah, 0:16:19.680 --> 0:16:23.080 that includes parts of India before the Gupta period, Grease 0:16:23.160 --> 0:16:27.640 up to the Classical period, parts of China, Native American cultures, 0:16:27.920 --> 0:16:31.920 and on and on. People actually also believe Earth was 0:16:32.040 --> 0:16:37.200 covered by a solid dome called the firmament, which is 0:16:37.560 --> 0:16:40.360 a term you see in the Bible a lot, right, 0:16:40.440 --> 0:16:43.480 like if you got high enough into the heavens, you 0:16:43.520 --> 0:16:48.280 would eventually hit just yeah, it's almost like a glass 0:16:48.320 --> 0:16:52.600 ceiling of sorts the way it's described. Sometimes I see 0:16:52.600 --> 0:16:57.120 it as a snow globe. Almost just above there's a 0:16:57.160 --> 0:16:59.840 picture on the House Stuff Works website that kind of 0:17:00.000 --> 0:17:03.800 gives you a great idea, and that is on the 0:17:03.920 --> 0:17:07.520 article how creationism works. And it's just it's a cool 0:17:07.560 --> 0:17:11.359 illustration of the concept of yeah, exactly. And most of 0:17:11.440 --> 0:17:14.400 China pretty much accepted the idea of a flat earth 0:17:14.560 --> 0:17:19.560 until apparently meeting missionaries in the seventeenth century who are like, guys, 0:17:20.680 --> 0:17:24.040 we're gonna blow your minds. Double checked myself. Just just 0:17:24.080 --> 0:17:26.720 wanted to put this out there. The Bible does mention 0:17:26.760 --> 0:17:29.439 the firmament seventeen times, but it actually is referring to 0:17:30.280 --> 0:17:35.280 a expanse beyond the sky. So the expanse of the 0:17:35.320 --> 0:17:38.960 heavens above the earth. Okay, they almost wore a little 0:17:38.960 --> 0:17:41.199 head of the curve. Yeah, if you think about it. 0:17:41.240 --> 0:17:44.040 And we'll find out more about that too. So there 0:17:44.080 --> 0:17:47.040 are some myths we need to bust about belief in 0:17:47.119 --> 0:17:50.560 the flat earth in the ancient world. Okay, we'll talk 0:17:50.600 --> 0:17:56.080 about where this argument for a spherical world came from. 0:17:56.280 --> 0:17:58.879 But first one of us that one of the biggest myths, 0:17:59.080 --> 0:18:01.680 ladies and gentlemen, if we're already listening to this show, 0:18:01.680 --> 0:18:04.120 that we imagine that you know this is a fact, 0:18:04.240 --> 0:18:07.360 but just in case you are still in a situation 0:18:07.680 --> 0:18:11.760 where your history teachers are misleading you, probably with the 0:18:11.800 --> 0:18:14.960 best of intentions. Let's let's get it out of the 0:18:14.960 --> 0:18:19.080 way now. Crystal Ball Cologne Street named Christopher Columbus was 0:18:19.119 --> 0:18:24.000 a gigantic jerk. Is a monster. He was like, uh, 0:18:24.160 --> 0:18:28.440 the nooid. If the noid was a genocidal slaver, that's 0:18:28.480 --> 0:18:31.040 a deep cut, my friend, that's a deep cut. Yeah. 0:18:31.240 --> 0:18:33.439 I was just I was thinking about the NOI do 0:18:33.480 --> 0:18:38.879 you guys remember the Anid video game? I played it 0:18:38.960 --> 0:18:44.080 on a different console. The Nooid was big dominoes, look 0:18:44.119 --> 0:18:46.440 up noid. Maybe a better thing would be He was 0:18:46.480 --> 0:18:51.320 the Martin Screlly of his day. Is that better? Okay? 0:18:51.359 --> 0:18:54.679 But despite all the terrible things he did, all the 0:18:55.480 --> 0:19:00.359 just monstrous atrocities he committed or helped commit, he was 0:19:00.440 --> 0:19:04.240 not a stupid man. He was not like the dullest 0:19:04.280 --> 0:19:07.760 crayon in the box. He, like most of the people 0:19:07.920 --> 0:19:11.080 at the time, knew the Earth was round. It was 0:19:11.240 --> 0:19:15.960 common knowledge. He did not prove it. He Uh. If anything, 0:19:16.040 --> 0:19:20.159 the big argument was about how big or small the 0:19:20.160 --> 0:19:23.240 Earth was. It was not about the shape. Sure seems 0:19:23.280 --> 0:19:25.480 to me if anyone was going to know first that 0:19:25.560 --> 0:19:27.320 the earth was round, it would be somebody in the 0:19:27.400 --> 0:19:31.040 nautical profession, you know, like like a captain, someone that 0:19:31.160 --> 0:19:33.760 spends time out on the sea right where you could 0:19:33.760 --> 0:19:36.800 see the actual curvature. Well, that also was a big thing, 0:19:36.880 --> 0:19:41.480 a big superstition among um seafaring types was that you 0:19:41.520 --> 0:19:43.520 would reach the end of the earth right and they 0:19:43.840 --> 0:19:45.880 fall off, and that they were like there be monsters, 0:19:45.960 --> 0:19:52.639 kind of incognita. It's true, But so why did this 0:19:52.800 --> 0:19:55.320 myth come about? Where there's a guy named James Hannum 0:19:55.520 --> 0:19:59.480 who wrote a piece called Science Versus Christianity, and we 0:19:59.520 --> 0:20:03.040 have a quote for you directly from him. The myth 0:20:03.280 --> 0:20:05.679 that people in the Middle Ages thought the Earth is 0:20:05.720 --> 0:20:09.080 flat appears to date from the seventeenth century as part 0:20:09.080 --> 0:20:13.000 of the campaign by Protestants against Catholic teaching, but it 0:20:13.080 --> 0:20:16.399 gained currency in the nineteenth century thanks to inaccurate history 0:20:16.520 --> 0:20:19.840 such as John William Draper's History of the Conflict between 0:20:19.840 --> 0:20:23.680 Religion and Science in eighteen seventy four and Andrew Dixon 0:20:23.720 --> 0:20:27.520 whites a History of the Warfare of Science with Theology 0:20:27.520 --> 0:20:32.800 and Christendom in eighteen ninety six. Atheists and agnostics championed 0:20:32.800 --> 0:20:36.360 the conflict thesis of their own purposes, but historical research 0:20:36.440 --> 0:20:40.920 gradually demonstrated that Draper and White had propagated more fantasy 0:20:40.960 --> 0:20:43.520 than fact in their efforts to prove that science and 0:20:43.600 --> 0:20:49.080 religion are locked in internal conflict. The myth that people 0:20:49.119 --> 0:20:51.320 in the Middle Ages thought the earth was flat appears 0:20:51.359 --> 0:20:53.480 to date from the seventeenth century as part of the 0:20:53.520 --> 0:20:58.080 campaign by Protestants against Catholic teaching, but it gained currency 0:20:58.200 --> 0:21:01.600 in the nineteenth century thanks to inaccurate history such as 0:21:01.680 --> 0:21:05.199 John William Draper's History of the Conflict between Religion and 0:21:05.240 --> 0:21:09.120 Science and Andrew Dixon White's A History of the Warfare 0:21:09.119 --> 0:21:13.400 of Science with Theology in Christendom. Atheist and agnostics championed 0:21:13.480 --> 0:21:16.760 the conflict thesis for their own purposes, but historical research 0:21:16.800 --> 0:21:21.560 gradually demonstrated that Draper and White had propagated more fantasy 0:21:21.560 --> 0:21:24.159 than fiction in their efforts to prove that science and 0:21:24.200 --> 0:21:29.320 religion are locked in eternal conflict. So essentially, what happened here. 0:21:29.359 --> 0:21:33.760 The reason that we have this longstanding stereotype about people 0:21:33.920 --> 0:21:39.280 in the ancient world is because two guys with an 0:21:39.320 --> 0:21:45.440 agenda popularize something to make it look as those science 0:21:45.480 --> 0:21:48.719 and faith are always at loggerheads. And you know, if 0:21:48.760 --> 0:21:51.680 you go back even further, it was a religious insult 0:21:52.480 --> 0:21:57.639 that the Protestants channeled against the Catholics old thinking. So 0:21:57.720 --> 0:22:00.639 let's talk about the truth. The cons set of a 0:22:00.880 --> 0:22:05.439 round Earth dates all the way back to at least 0:22:05.600 --> 0:22:10.159 Pythagoras and Aristotle. So you could argue that in the 0:22:10.240 --> 0:22:13.879 eighth century BC, the Biblical writer Isaiah alluded to a 0:22:13.960 --> 0:22:18.680 spherical Earth. In Isaiah for quote, he sits enthroned upon 0:22:18.720 --> 0:22:22.360 the circle of the Earth. Then in the third century BC, 0:22:22.520 --> 0:22:27.080 Hellenistic astronomy established without a doubt, factual proof of Earth's 0:22:27.119 --> 0:22:31.159 spherical shape. So this comes to us from astronomy. And 0:22:31.200 --> 0:22:33.919 we had talked about whether this came from people in 0:22:33.960 --> 0:22:36.720 a nautical profession. But keep in mind, at this point 0:22:36.760 --> 0:22:43.720 in time astronomers and those in maritime occupations were intertwined 0:22:43.760 --> 0:22:46.960 in terms of skill sets. Absolutely, I mean astronomy, or 0:22:47.080 --> 0:22:50.919 rather the nautical mapping, and you know, making the charts 0:22:51.280 --> 0:22:55.119 is essentially functional astronomy, I mean using the stars to 0:22:55.680 --> 0:22:57.959 you know, plot your course. Did you guys know that? 0:22:58.080 --> 0:23:00.800 Did you hear the NPR story about out this recently 0:23:00.840 --> 0:23:04.600 where the Navy is going back to teaching uh, teaching 0:23:04.640 --> 0:23:07.560 the students like where I'm actually well, we'll talk about 0:23:07.560 --> 0:23:09.240 that later, but they're teaching people how to use the 0:23:09.240 --> 0:23:12.640 stars and navigate again. Right, Yeah, then that's a that's 0:23:12.640 --> 0:23:16.360 a valuable skill once. Once you know it, you can 0:23:16.440 --> 0:23:19.680 keep an eye on it, because it's true that constellations 0:23:20.160 --> 0:23:24.320 do change over time, but the scale of that change 0:23:24.359 --> 0:23:28.040 is so vast in comparison to you know, human lives, 0:23:28.320 --> 0:23:29.960 that you can pretty much count on these as a 0:23:30.000 --> 0:23:31.880 fixed point. I think it's great. I think they never 0:23:31.880 --> 0:23:35.240 should have stopped teaching from there. The belief and around 0:23:35.280 --> 0:23:41.840 Earth spread gradually throughout the world. People knew, Yeah, but Ben, 0:23:43.400 --> 0:23:46.919 is it really a sphere? Yeah? I guess you're right. 0:23:46.960 --> 0:23:49.240 I guess it's better to call it an ellipsoid. But 0:23:49.320 --> 0:23:52.400 still we knew, Yeah, it's kind of squashed, right, Yeah, 0:23:53.320 --> 0:23:57.960 so case closed? Right? Or is it? Here's where it 0:23:58.040 --> 0:24:04.120 gets crazy, the flat earth theory. Okay, yes, we said 0:24:04.119 --> 0:24:08.359 earlier Mesopotamian cultures believed that Earth was a disk. We 0:24:08.440 --> 0:24:12.480 have had as a species, so many different shapes for Earth. 0:24:12.680 --> 0:24:15.440 But obviously, if you're standing in one spot, you see 0:24:15.440 --> 0:24:18.280 a mountain, you see an ocean, what's that old poem, 0:24:18.320 --> 0:24:20.160 I looked around from where I stood and saw three 0:24:20.160 --> 0:24:23.080 mountains and the wood. Um. It's a great poem. But 0:24:23.240 --> 0:24:25.880 the the ideas that we were limited for a long 0:24:25.960 --> 0:24:31.520 time because the signs that could prove to us the 0:24:31.560 --> 0:24:34.239 position of the Sun and the and the moon and 0:24:34.359 --> 0:24:37.560 Earth and the shape of those things were difficult to interpret. 0:24:37.600 --> 0:24:40.680 So of course we thought it was flat for a while. 0:24:41.200 --> 0:24:44.240 But well, let alone, what is the sun? What is 0:24:44.359 --> 0:24:46.600 the moon? You know? What are what are these things 0:24:46.600 --> 0:24:48.560 made of? What am I seeing far out there? We 0:24:48.600 --> 0:24:50.560 know that something is there? But what is it? Is 0:24:50.600 --> 0:24:52.720 it angry at me? I mean, that's the kind of 0:24:52.720 --> 0:24:57.080 world people lived in. So gradually as the at least 0:24:57.080 --> 0:24:59.879 in the West, the Hellenistic realization of Earth as a 0:25:00.200 --> 0:25:06.840